Moscow [Archive] - Page 11 - InternationalSexGuide

Jake993

01-01-09, 00:00

Happy 2009 gentlemen,

I would like to bring up a topic that does not seem to get written about much on this forum and that is the one of "working apartments". Not to be confused with "salons", which usually have several girls who may "live" there when they are working, I am referring to the kind of apartment where one or tow girls actually live there on a (more or less) full time basis and conducts the world's oldest profession - well, second oldest (someone had to print the money, right?).

If you read www.sextalk.ru, I think you will agree with me that the majority of the posts there are about "incall only" girls who work out of their homes. Personally, I have only visited these working apartments a handful of times and probably the first 3 or 4 times was with the assistance of a local Moscow friend who negotiated the transaction, took the location details, and even help me find the place.

The the experience was certainly different than what you might experience from a Salon or a HD girls and CERTAINLY different from what you will find a girl who work at Night Flight.

Now, I know that this subject has been beaten to death, but permit me to start the year off with a rant about NF. Recalling my last experience at Night Flight, I would hesitate to call some of these girls pros at all. While I didn't take one home that night because I was playing tour guide to a first timer, the suggestion of BBBJ brought a look of surprise from more than one dyev working that night and the mention of anal made another one blanche with a look of horror. For a minute I thought she would run from the bar screaming. What the hell are these girls here for? Or more to the point, what do they think WE are there for? Tiddly-winks and witty repartee? OK - I'm done. No more about NF. Back to working apartments.

The experiences I have had with "working apartments" have been mostly positive. Some have been recommendations from friends and other have come from sextalk. I have even found one or two on Mamba. But they always start out quite friendly and cordial and involve a cup of tea with some chit chat. Of course if you don't speak any Russian the conversation is a bit one sided but you know what I mean.

From there, the young lady will offer you a towel and suggest you get cleaned up. And this is where the experience can vary. Some girls have a really nicely appointed bathroom with new towels, fragrant soaps, etc while others can be downright dingy. The one I remember best was with Irina who was a darling. She was a 24 year old University student studying business. She was a former ballet dancer and had a rock hard body. She had an apartment in the Chisty Prudy area. The apartment was light and cheery and had a great bathroom with a good shower, big bathmat, thick towels a place for you to hang your clothes. I came out wearing my towel and she went in for a shower after me. She came out with a towel around her waist with her wonderful breasts displayed. Wow.

She invited me to the bed which had a nicely covered sort of duvet on the top for us to "conduct business" on. The sex was excellent. Clearly knew her way around the male body and provided BBBJ and was keen to try out several positions (many were rather athletic) and took her time making sure that I was pleased. I offered to help bring her to orgasm, but she declined. she told me that after orgasm she wants to sleep and had another client coming in a few hours. Very upfront - very professional but not at all crass. Very classy attitude.

The GFE was pretty good overall. Not fantastic, but very nice just the same. She had some good basic English skills so we chatted a while afterward. I knew she had another appointment later, but she did not make me feel rushed at all.

This particular assignation was arranged by a local friend who never did quote a price. So when the time came for me to leave, I asked her how much I should give her and she said that I should just give how ever much I felt it was worth to me. Damn - I hate it when they do that.

Since then I have visited a few working apartments and as my Russian language skills improve I feel more confident to venture further afield. What I have noticed from the girls on Mamba who "work from home", is that they are open minded about being visited by foreigners and some will have basic English skills. Of course, qualification is a MUST. I ask them directly of they are working in a salon and that if I do come to their apartment and it is a salon that I will leave immediately. If they are in a salon then they usually don't answer the message and the problem is solved.

I just realized that I do not have a photo of Irina on this computer but will post a few of the ones that were posted thru sextalk last year. I am assuming that since I don't much on this forum about it, that there are not many guys who visit these kind of apartments, but I have to tell you that I am impressed with what I have found and consider it a pretty good deal all the way around.

Jake993

01-01-09, 00:09

I just realized that I do not have a photo of Irina on this computer but will post a few of the ones that were posted thru sextalk last year. I am assuming that since I don't much on this forum about it, that there are not many guys who visit these kind of apartments, but I have to tell you that I am impressed with what I have found and consider it a pretty good deal all the way around. OK, I found them and they are off of Dosug. Enjoy.

Explorer69

01-01-09, 03:45

OK, I found them and they are off of Dosug. Enjoy.Can you PM me the internet address or contact details of Irina?

AColonizer

01-01-09, 12:21

Hi guys! Urge question! I have jumped from my chair when I read:

Возможен выезд.
Возможно все...
Интересует тема зоо...
Фото мои.

translation:
outcall meeting
every service
interested in zoo . . . matter
my picture

But what does she mean with "interested in zoo. Matter"?

DirkDingy

01-01-09, 15:35

Anyone up for action tonight?

DD

Tacitus

01-01-09, 23:11

Laoshu2

01-02-09, 14:14

Lennox

01-02-09, 14:35

Surely we should praise Comrade Putin for bringing mutual fear and loathing back to East-West relations? This will scare all the weak-kneed romance tourists away and leave the field free for hard-core mongers!

Also, I think Russia may be in for a downturn. I was at a really interesting conference last week that linked the anticipated slowdown in the US real estate market to a general American/western slowdown, spilling over into China & India which export 90% of their finished goods to the US, taking the heat out of Russian oil & gas (and other resource) demand/markets. Result? Minting fewer new Russian millionaires and billionaires (and surely many of those must be houses of cards) and leaving more starving dyevs for the rest of us...

A prescient statement. Only trouble is the downturn is so bad even us hardcore mongers are feeling it a bit.

Member #4378

01-02-09, 19:03

Humperdink 2008

01-02-09, 19:56

Thanks,

There was no need to tell me to RTFF. I did. My question wasn't about individual members, it was about the *site as a whole*. Not a single girl I've looked at has any reviews (looking at Yekaterinburg). And I don't read enough cyrillic to use sextalk. Ru. I've searched for the numbers in Google and nothing has come up.

So I guess it'll have to be trial and error in Yekat then.

There's plenty about this on the forum already, so please read what's there first.

If you have questions about a particular girl, I suggest:
- searching on the Russian site for reviews (no need to register)
- looking at # of positive vs. negative reviews (you will need to register but not pay)
- putting her phone number thru sextalk.ru to see if there are reviews there

For all of these, you'll need to read Russian or use an online translator. And good luck with the "zhargon" (slang) because it can be difficult even for those of us who've been studying Russian for years.

Jake993

01-02-09, 20:36

Hi folks,

I am an newbie to Moscow and I would like to ask for advice. A couple of friends and I will visit Moscow in June this year and are looking foward to some mongering. I understood from previous threads that some knowledge of Russian would be favourable, but I don't think I will learn enough to perform any smart small talk. Therefore incalls to apartments are excluded due to communication barriers. Preferrably I would like to visit a club with decent girls where there are rooms available and where we don't get scammed.

I have read about "Nightflight". expensive, questionable service from the girls, better just for window shopping?

Hot Dog: any recommendations?

What about the hotel bar: are there any dyevs available? I have not yet booked the hotel, but my plan is to to stay at some 5 star hotel near to inner city limits. Maybe 2-3 km from kremlin.

Any strip clubs from where you can take a girl to the hotel. I always prefer seeing the girl live intead of booking one from any website.

Comments and recommendations are thankfully appreciated.

Tacitus
Tacitus,
Like most of my ISG brethren, my knee-jerk reaction to your post is "RTFF" (read the fucking forum) but since it is the holiday season (and I am trapped with my relatives for the afternoon) I will, in the spirit of giving, be happy to send you a PM with some thoughts on your topic to spare everyone additional detail that's been hashed over ad infinitum.

5 Star hotel? Yikes - I hope you have deep pockets. Mind you, come June I wonder what the rates will be like.

BTW - if you have six months, you should try learning some Russian. There are countless podcasts and youtube videos to help you so I suggest you invest a little time. You will be glad you did.

Happy New Year,

Jake

Stravinsky

01-02-09, 21:27

But what does she mean with "interested in zoo... Matter"?Best take this to the Russian Words and Phrases thread.
We need to know the entire statement. I assume there is something after the "..." that you left out.

Stravinsky

01-02-09, 23:46

Thanks, there was no need to tell me to RTFF. I did. My question wasn't about individual members, it was about the *site as a whole*. Not a single girl I've looked at has any reviews (looking at Yekaterinburg). And I don't read enough cyrillic to use sextalk. Ru. I've searched for the numbers in Google and nothing has come up.Use a web page translator and follow this link for Yekaterinburg
http://sextalk.ru/postlist.php?Cat=0&Board=clsr_ekat

So I guess it'll have to be trial and error in Yekat then.Yes, of course, what else would you do in Russia? That's half the fun: adapt, improvise and overcome. That's what the rest of do.

Stravinsky

01-03-09, 00:24

I am an newbie to Moscow and I would like to ask for advice.Five star hotels in the city center start at $600-$700/night, so I assume you have more money than you know what to do with (any chance of giving some to me?). This is good, because you will need LOTS of money. If you don't speak Russian, then you will have to find women in Moscow who speak English. They exist, and they also know that they are a rare and valuable commodity and will charge you accordingly.

You will have to stick to the expat clubs like NF or Hot Dog's and will be limited to the selection you find there. If you are staying in a first class hotel, then there will also be working girls in the hotel lobby or bar, expensive but you pay for the convenience.

Strip clubs are also a possibility for the Cyrillicly challenged, no verbal communication is necessary. When the girl holds out her hand, you put some money in it. If it's not enough, she will let you know. Just keep on giving the girls money and they keep dancing. What could be easier?

The strip clubs also have private rooms, but on-premises sex is the most expensive in Moscow. The cost of a private room for an hour is around 5 to 7,000 rubles. If you also want a girl who will get naked and do nasty things with you in your private room, prices start at around 6 - 8,000 rubles (in addition to the room) and can go to 15 or 20,000 rubles.

It is possible to take a girl out of a club, but this is also expensive and will require some negotiation with the girl. There are girls in the clubs who might be willing to meet with you "off the clock", but, again, negotiation will be required.

I would take Jake's advice if I were you. Use the next 6 months to learn a little Russian. You should at least learn how to read the Cyrillic alphabet and how to count.

Otherwise, you may as well go to Vegas. You'll enjoy it just as much for a fraction of the cost.

AColonizer

01-04-09, 00:30

the reply was exactly that, in russian:

КЛАССИКА-МИНЕТ-АНАЛ
Возможен выезд.
Возможно все...
Интересует тема зоо...
Фото мои.
for jackson's rules, english translation:
vaginal sex, blowjob, anal sex
i can come to you
i can everything
interested in zoo... topic
my own picture

i know hardcore prostitutes (tochka and similar) are engaged in all kinds of filthy things (fisting, pissing, rep001ting etc.) but i couldn't guess zoophilia is widespreading in a such way!

best take this to the russian words and phrases thread.
we need to know the entire statement. i assume there is something after the "..." that you left out.

Laoshu2

01-04-09, 10:28

Does anybody has visited this club?

http://yulia-varra.ru/ev/

Thanks for the feedback

DirkDingy

01-05-09, 06:17

Five star hotels in the city center start at $600-$700/night, .

I actually Orbitzed the Ritz (5 star) for $521 and the Holiday Inn for $367 (4 Star). I stayed in both for the few nights that I was there. I was shocked at the prices in Moscow and befuddled how so many people there earn such a (relatively) low wage and can survive.

Hats off to all those that can afford to play in Moscow. I will stick to Stans for my fun.

Pizdyets

01-05-09, 07:43

I actually Orbitzed the Ritz (5 star) for $521 and the Holiday Inn for $367 (4 Star). I stayed in both for the few nights that I was there. I was shocked at the prices in Moscow and befuddled how so many people there earn such a (relatively) low wage and can survive.

Hats off to all those that can afford to play in Moscow. I will stick to Stans for my fun.

When the Ritz opened last year, it was the most expensive rack rate in the world at over $1000 dollars for a standard room. But this time of year is always low for business travel, so it's hard to make any conclusions based on it.

Hotels Moskva, Ukraine and Rossiya should be coming back online this year, so I'm expecting the supply of 5* hotels to far outstrip demand and prices to be halved by this time next year.

Doctor_Skank

01-05-09, 07:47

When the Ritz opened last year, it was the most expensive rack rate in the world at over $1000 dollars for a standard room. But this time of year is always low for business travel, so it's hard to make any conclusions based on it.

Hotels Moskva, Ukraine and Rossiya should be coming back online this year, so I'm expecting the supply of 5* hotels to far outstrip demand and prices to be halved by this time next year.Moskva and Ukraina towards the end of the year, but Rossia won't be back before 2011 or 2012... if at all. There is still a legal battle going on over the plot of land where Rossia once was... no construction started. They are thinking of turning it into a pedestrian zone ala "old Moscow" with bars, restaurants and smaller hotels. Would be awesome... )

Pizdyets

01-05-09, 07:51

Moskva and Ukraina towards the end of the year, but Rossia won't be back before 2011 or 2012... if at all. There is still a legal battle going on over the plot of land where Rossia once was... no construction started. They are thinking of turning it into a pedestrian zone ala "old Moscow" with bars, restaurants and smaller hotels. Would be awesome... )

Thanks for the info, Doc!

An "Old Moscow" would be awesome, but in reality I'd predict it'd be as soul-less as Arbat.

Trall

01-06-09, 15:57

I heared that the tochkas on Leningradski Chausee in Khimki have all been closed down: does anybody have an update on tochkas in Moscow (location/prices).

Thanks a lot in advance.

Jake993

01-08-09, 16:24

A lot has been made of the rise in P4P prices in Moscow during the past 24 months. Places like NF and HD has seen the floor price come up substantially despite recent reports that prices are starting to soften.

Still, we have often convinced ourselves that no matter how ridiculous the prices, they are still cheaper than anything you would get for the same quality in the good old US of A...... right? Wrong.

I am in Dallas, Texas this week on a business trip with Russian colleagues. The Big D, home of big silicone boobs and Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders. I know were not supposed to talk about girls and prices in the USA but since I am here with Russians it's sort of relevant.

After dinner last night with Russian business colleagues, we went to a VERY trendy bar in a VERY trendy part of town. Apparently it's THE place to be on a Wednesday night. The place filled up by 23:30 and and by midnight it was shoulder to shoulder. And as you would expect it was packed with gorgeous girls.

I was standing at the bar ordering a round of drinks for the guys and two stunning babes walked up and starting chatting me up. They cut to the chase quickly and asked if we wanted some "entertainment". Big surprise these girls were strippers who wanted to come back to the hotel for a little party.

I will spare you all of the details but once we got back to the hotel with the girls the negotiations for "extra" services started and here's what the going rate was:

$200 Massage with happy finish.
$300 as above but with CJB and possibly BBBJ depending on the girl.
$400 as above but vaginal sex.

The issue of time came up and they giggled and said that as long as we could "get it up" and perform they would stay but they needed to be gone before the sun came up.

So after the strip show in my room, the two girls went off with Sergei and Vadim to their rooms. What kind of host would I have been to take one for myself? I thought you guys might be interested to know what the prices were for what I consider to be fairly high end girls. Seems quite reasonable to me considering some of the quotes we have been hearing in Moscow. Granted there was enough silicon to.... to.....to.... well hell I don't know what else you can do with great gobs of silicone but you get the idea. These girls were 170 cm, about 50 Kg and very, very fit. Oh and they were bi-sexual judging from the show they put on for us.

It's 9:15 AM in Dallas and I have yet to get a report from the boys but they seemed to be quite taken with the blonds so I guess we'll see. It's the first trip to Dallas for both guys. Welcome to America.

Explorer69

01-08-09, 16:56

A lot has been made of the rise in P4P prices in Moscow during the past 24 months. Places like NF and HD has seen the floor price come up substantially despite recent reports that prices are starting to soften.

...............................

I will spare you all of the details but once we got back to the hotel with the girls the negotiations for "extra" services started and here's what the going rate was:

$200 Massage with happy finish.
$300 as above but with CJB and possibly BBBJ depending on the girl.
$400 as above but vaginal sex.

The issue of time came up and they giggled and said that as long as we could "get it up" and perform they would stay but they needed to be gone before the sun came up.

So after the strip show in my room, the two girls went off with Sergei and Vadim to their rooms. What kind of host would I have been to take one for myself? I thought you guys might be interested to know what the prices were for what I consider to be fairly high end girls. Seems quite reasonable to me considering some of the quotes we have been hearing in Moscow. Granted there was enough silicon to.... to.....to.... well hell I don't know what else you can do with great gobs of silicone but you get the idea. These girls were 170 cm, about 50 Kg and very, very fit. Oh and they were bi-sexual judging from the show they put on for us.

It's 9:15 AM in Dallas and I have yet to get a report from the boys but they seemed to be quite taken with the blonds so I guess we'll see. It's the first trip to Dallas for both guys. Welcome to America.This was quite interesting and funny! I would love to know what the Russians thought of the girls. I have usually had good sex in USA, but the Russian girls are on the average far better in BJs. So what did the Russians think about that?

Jake993

01-08-09, 20:16

This was quite interesting and funny! I would love to know what the Russians thought of the girls. I have usually had good sex in USA, but the Russian girls are on the average far better in BJs. So what did the Russians think about that? Well, Vadim was not impressed at all. His girl (Nicole) would not do BBBJ and what's worse, she would not let him lick her pussy. She said that she would only let her girlfriend do that!!!! Apparently she did the starfish routine and just laid there while Vadim pounded her. And she was out the door in 59 minutes. Vadim suspects that she was gay and just doing the deed for the money.

Sergei fared a little better. His girl (Jana) was a little more into it and did remove the condom after he complained that he could not feel anything. She would would not let him CIM but he said she was not bad at it. He paid $400 for the hour and she stayed for almost two hours. In fact, she probably would have stayed longer but Nicole was waiting for her in the car and called her cell phone. She was pissed off that Jana was taking so long.

Vadim said they tried all positions and she was pretty frisky but she almost knocked him out cold with one of her silicone filled boobs. He thought her boob job was over done, but I reminded him that he was in Texas!!! (Everything's bigger) He asked her if she would do anal but she wanted to charge him double so he told her to forget it.

Both Russians said they want to go down market tonight and find some women who were "more ugly". They think gorgeous Dallas girls are like gorgeous Moscow girls - too expensive and poor service!!!! To quote Vadim - "Beautiful girls think that they shit ice cream, but the ugly girls know what they have to do". Words to live by.

Stravinsky

01-09-09, 01:06

"Beautiful girls think that they shit ice cream, but the ugly girls know what they have to do".молодец Вадим! That pretty much sums it up.

Too bad he ended up on the wrong side of a love triangle, but with that practical perspective he should do fine.

Any more stories about Vadim and Sergei in America??

Jake993

01-10-09, 06:13

молодец Вадим! That pretty much sums it up.

Too bad he ended up on the wrong side of a love triangle, but with that practical perspective he should do fine.

Any more stories about Vadim and Sergei in America?? After the experience at the Candle Room, those two clowns got it in their heads that prostitution in America must be legal. We were watching the BCS (OU & Florida) final at a sports bar in Uptown Dallas on Thursday night when Vadim propositioned a girl and just about got us thrown out! But the night wasn't a total loss - we ended up at a strip club later that night and found a girl to fulfill Vadim's fantasies.

Poured those two onto a plane for Moscow this afternoon. I think I'll need the weekend for my liver to recover. They've invited me to come to Gelendzhik (Black Sea) in late April with them and their friends - they say they are going to show me how to have some real fun. Why I am I not surprised?

Stravinsky

01-10-09, 06:40

those two clowns got it in their heads that prostitution in America must be legalHA!
and why not? It makes perfect sense, to a Russian....

Pizdyets

01-10-09, 20:02

HA!
and why not? It makes perfect sense, to a Russian....

Even though it's legal in only a tiny fraction of the US, it is at least condoned in the remaining 99.999% if kept on the DL.

I recently met up with another ISG member who related an interesting story to me about a business dinner he'd just had in Vegas. It was your typical corporate meet-n-greet and one of the attendees was a sexy, slightly "enhanced" 30-ish real estate broker who'd taken a keen interest in our ISG brother. Flirting led to kissing which led to a little groping and then she dropped the bomb... she really wanted to be with him, but it'll cost him. Usually she charges $1500/night, but "since he's so nice", he'll get over a 50% discount. Now, understand, our brother is no stranger to p4p, but on the other hand, he started off thinking this was a freebie. He thought for a moment about bidding her down to Moscow prices, but given his work schedule the following morning, decided to punt. Considering this occurred back at the beginning of the crisis, and her ostensible career was in real estate, it's not too unlikely that her rates have since been cut as much as the US prime (which would put her in the same ballpark as Jake's Dallas Cowgirls).

Now let's return to originally scheduled program... :)

Aibolit

01-11-09, 05:29

Pizdyets

01-11-09, 09:40

Ash1001

01-11-09, 17:47

Dallas ... VERY trendy bar in a VERY trendy part of town ...

Ghost bar? W Hotel bar?

I'm curious, as I don't think it's just Wednesdays. You didn't get to meet the gorgeous Linsey by any chance? :) (Myself and OK Farm Boy know her)

I thought you guys might be interested to know what the prices were for what I consider to be fairly high end girls

It's worth remembering that NYC is to Dallas what Moscow is to, say, Nizhny Novgorod.

Doctor_Skank

01-12-09, 09:44

Dr. Skank,

I have read many of your posts and have to admit that I'm very much intrigued by them. In fact, I believe that your achievements that you relay to the readers of this forum are extraordinary:
1. You meet plenty of gorgeous 18-20 y.o. freebie girls in Moscow.
2. You have mostly a first-rate experiences with them.
3. Your exploits make the paid sex feel like a meager substitue for the less fortunate.

Frankly, this is exactly what my personal fantasy would be: come to Moscow, go to a club or otherwise meet an 18 y.o. gorgeous Moscovite, make passionate love to her for few days for free, move on.

This is such a nice fantasy that I started to think that your reports are too good to be true. My personal inability to replicate your success (see my post of my unsuccessful exploits in Moscow) certainly add to the doubt. I really don't want to doubt your achievements (hopes die last, don't they?), but I honestly (perhaps, naively) ask - how do you do it? I have to be in Moscow in the near future, so my question has a practical aspect to it. Aibolit
It's not just Skank who's getting it on here with young, beautiful dyevs. I have other friends who have an equal or greater number of girlfriends, but don't care to write about their exploits (even if some are ISG members).

Of course it helps immensely if you have some of the following qualities (NOT in order of importance): handsome, well-built, well-dressed, well-mannered, well-read, interesting, passionate, communicative, successful, flirtatious, empathetic, intelligent, confident...

Really, there's no secret. There's a ton of ways to meet girls, all detailed here in ISG. After that, it's all you.What Pizdyets said is correct, there are many ways to meet girls and they do go for many kinds of guys for any number of reasons.

A lot of the basics have already been addressed here and if you've read the posts as you say, you'll have understood the fundementals of wooing the slavic female.

Here's 3 things I think are very important:

1) girls like successful guys, period. It doesn't even really matter what you are successful in, but you should be able to get the message across to her. This is true of all societies, but particularly so in Russia.

2) don't wait for things to happen, make them happen.

3) make it understood you'll be a regular visitor to Moscow or live here. makes a big difference. Tourists can get laid too and do, but their chances are reduced. Girls do look for guys that they'll see more than once or twice.

Roger Mellie

01-13-09, 01:11

Dr. Skank, ...
Frankly, this is exactly what my personal fantasy would be: come to Moscow, go to a club or otherwise meet an 18 y.o. gorgeous Moscovite, make passionate love to her for few days for free, move on.

There's part of your problem right there in your question. You dont aim to come to Moscow and meet ONE girl. Don't aim to be poking the same girl for a few days - thats soft. If thats your attitude, you will end up trying too hard for each chick you hit on.

Moscow girls smell that, and it will smell like weakness and boredom.

They dont go for that.

Aibolit

01-13-09, 03:53

Thanks to all who provided comments to my post. I would agree with most of them. But, you guys are forgetting few important things that, I'm sure, are an impediment to many of us:
1. I am completely alone, when I am in Moscow.
2. I have no idea where to go to meet young gorgeous freebies.
3. I don't have time to invest in Mamba etc to prepare for months the potential dates for my visit.
4. I am in Moscow only for 1-2 weeks maximum.

I don't think I have any problem with other "must haves" that you guys listed: success, charm, visit Moscow often, well mannered, etc. But, I wonder how you suggest to overcome the 4 above-mentioned impediments?
Again, I'm sure this is a generic problem that is not specific just to me.

Doctor_Skank

01-13-09, 08:27

Pizdyets

01-13-09, 08:34

Thanks to all who provided comments to my post. I would agree with most of them. But, you guys are forgetting few important things that, I'm sure, are an impediment to many of us:
1. I am completely alone, when I am in Moscow.

I score best when I'm solo. Success is inversely proportional to the size of your posse. But I'm pretty sure one of the local guys here would be willing to show you around in exchange for dinner and/or drinks.

2. I have no idea where to go to meet young gorgeous freebies.

Huh? Have you not read the forum? If you're unwilling to go online, then any club or bar will do. I'd suggest demokratichny places which are expat-friendly: Che, Real McCoy, Karma, Tema, Fabrique, Papa's, Tunnel, B2, Vinograd, Etazh - man, the list goes on and on...

3. I don't have time to invest in Mamba etc to prepare for months the potential dates for my visit.

No problem, but you'd better have enough balls to approach a cutie in a bar.

4. I am in Moscow only for 1-2 weeks maximum.

Many of my visiting work colleagues are only here for 2-3 days and poke an equal number of girls during that time.

I don't think I have any problem with other "must haves" that you guys listed: success, charm, visit Moscow often, well mannered, etc. But, I wonder how you suggest to overcome the 4 above-mentioned impediments?
Again, I'm sure this is a generic problem that is not specific just to me.

You need some tough love, brother. Quit your bitching, put on your best club clothes and cologne, make a point to chat up each cute girl you see (even if she's just sitting in a park) and don't stop until you hit paydirt.

Stravinsky

01-13-09, 16:30

The most important thing about Russia, or eastern Europe in general, is don't try to plan, predict or second-guess it. If you try to study it from and intellectual perspective, it will defeat you every time. If you're sitting in the U.S. or western Europe and reading this board (or any other about eastern Europe) and scratching your head wondering how you can participate, you should understand that crossing into eastern Europe is a little like stepping through the looking glass.

Beautiful young women who probably wouldn't have given you the time of day anywhere else, even if you paid them, will suddenly take you seriously, even if you don't pay them. It's a strange phenomenon and one that has to be experienced to be understood.

Of course, you have to present yourself properly; well dressed, well spoken, with an air of confidence and success (smell good). But men do this all over the world and won't necessarily get the same results as they will in Moscow.

So, study what's been written in this forum, grab your passport, buy a plane ticket and follow the rabbit down the hole! It will take some time for you to figure it out, just like it did for everyone else. Strange things may happen, the caterpillar might give you a puff on his hookah, or the Mad Hatter might spit in your face, but that's OK, it's half the fun.

счастливо!

Doctor_Skank

01-13-09, 17:02

There's part of your problem right there in your question. You dont aim to come to Moscow and meet ONE girl. Don't aim to be poking the same girl for a few days - thats soft. If thats your attitude, you will end up trying too hard for each chick you hit on.

Moscow girls smell that, and it will smell like weakness and boredom.

They dont go for that.RM brings up an important point. Not only is it very beneficial to have an aire of mystery around you to keep her fascinated and motivated to please, it is important to understand one vital fact:

When a Russian girl thinks that you are REALLY serious about her and you have sent her these signals or even gone out of the way to make her feel that way, the rules change completely. You go from lover to marriage candidate. This may or may not have a positive effect on your sexual relations. I've been at both ends of the spectrum over the years and if I had to choose, I'd say it's ultimately better to be the lover. This is good, because it also gives you a license to be a jerk. Believe it or not, many girls eat it up. They need and crave the drama and it keeps them passionate.

Being the "really good guy" as many of us Westerners tend to be is effective only long-term... meaning they'll need months if not years to appreciate it. If ever.

Drawing upon a recent example from St.Petersburg, I was meeting a super cute 20-year old party girl. Frankly, she was a tease. We had made out in a club about 10 minutes after meeting. I just grabbed her and we started kissing. I was wearing the white shoes if anybody remembers those. I didn't take her home that night, but nonetheless we hit it off and an emotional connection ensued over a couple of weeks of internet communication. She came over one afternoon when I was in Petes and we were talking and she was raving about what a great guy I was. Nice, but where did that get me? Certainly not inside that tight puss of hers. I stopped her mid-sentence and put it on the line. I told her that I wasn't interested in being friends and that if we were going to keep seeing each other, it would have to be on a romantic, sexual level. My feelings for her were passionate and erotic and not merely friendly. I didn't need or want her merely as a friend. I told her to leave and think about it.

She left in a state of mild shock as I shut the door behind her. She called me the next day and we've been fucking ever since.

It's not a bad method and quite frankly, unless you are looking for "just a friend" you have nothing to lose. In a target-rich environment it pays to think this way, even if it goes against your Western upbringing.

Jake993

01-13-09, 17:33

In a target-rich environment it pays to think this way, even if it goes against your Western upbringing. You are soooo right. Being the nice guy is going to get you no where. They don't expect it, they don't understand it, and they don't necessarily want it. And you sure better not expect reciprocal treatment because Moscow Dyevs are about as flaky as they come. I'm not saying you need to be an asshole, but doing the attentive, considerate, thoughtful boyfriend thing is probably going to raise suspicion rather than appreciation. And let's not kid ourselves, we only want appreciation that morphs into sex right? Want a friend? Get a dog.

And Skank nailed it when he says "Western Upbringing" because it's the natural instinct that most socially acceptable guys from the west had drilled into their heads since they were 13 years old. Treating the ladies "right" was a pre-requisite to sex........ unless of course you were dealing with a bad girl and that's a whole different animal.

In similar fashion to Skank, I was getting nowhere with a girl until I laid it on the line. We screwed like rabbits for 2 days and then she disappeared................ but that's beside the point.

Roger Mellie

01-13-09, 19:45

I score best when I'm solo. Success is inversely proportional to the size of your posse. But I'm pretty sure one of the local guys here would be willing to show you around in exchange for dinner and/or drinks.

Many of my visiting work colleagues are only here for 2-3 days and poke an equal number of girls during that time.

You need some tough love, brother. Quit your bitching, put on your best club clothes and cologne, make a point to chat up each cute girl you see (even if she's just sitting in a park) and don't stop until you hit paydirt.

Well that pretty much sums it up in my book

a) Like Skank and Pizdets, I love being out with the boys, you relax and get a good buzz happening. But as they both said, you will do better solo, UNLESS you are on a prearranged double date. In which regard, Skank will have to write up a post on optimized team play during a double date.

A couple of co-ordinated guys on a prearranged double date is a surefire double poke, as Skank and I have proved on countless occasions. A double date which (inevitably) evolves into a double bang is a doubly satisfying thing. To hear your mate's hot date moaning in the next room (while you try to picture what she looks like naked) at 5am is matched only by the embarrassment on your own lovers face, once the flurry of activity and moaning in your own bed stops, as she realises she can suddenly hear her best girlfriend (or sister) getting whacked in the next room.

Typically, a lot of high fiving (and photo viewing) goes on between the boys at lunch the next day. There is a team spirit and cameraderie that you dont get flying solo, but it really only works well if you play as a team.

b) Re-emphasising, you dont want to be aiming for 1 girl on a 1-2 week trip. If you aim low, you will achieve low, and may end up with nothing but frustrated p4p. The handful of guys I know who are regular freebie playing visitors to the big M are usually aiming for 2-3 new face pokes plus 2-3 regulars on a 3-4 day trip. Not being too close to any of them gives you that distance and aire of mystery that really works particularly well in the FSU. It actually makes it easier, not harder, once you know what distance to maintain.

c) Again Pizdets nails it here ... you need some tough love. A slap in a face, a slick shirt, some nice aftershave and just go out there and play ball - and dont even think about being a "nice guy". To paraphrase God (or was it Cruijff .... doesnt matter, they are interchangeable) ... "You wont score, if you dont shoot."

Solntsa Yada

01-14-09, 09:01

Ever played Pool, on the big 15 foot tables, even worse, anyone played Russian Snooker? The balls are only a few milimetres smaller than the pocket. Its hard, VERY hard.

But then gone back to American tables? Or even the little bar tables little 6 footers? You play like a frickin professional all of a sudden.

Alot of the 'skills' and 'attitude' that everyone is talking about, it works on all ladies, but you just have to increase the humour angle for the western girls.

I've been playing around with a few freebees, always keeping 2-3 on the go, picking up numbers, getting first and second dates, rotating my calander, but I'm looking for something specific, and having fun while looking. But its still hard work figuring out the dyev and her mindset.

Recently I find myself visiting America for the first time, and gawd I feel like I'm playing on the 6ft tables.

I was in Vegas, picked up three girls, would have taken them back to the same hotel room, save for my cock blocking idiot friends, within 2 hours, I have 2 girls, ready for a party, again cock blocked. So going Solo has its advantages if you don't have a team that 'knows' how to play the scene.

In Tahoe, I managed to get to second base, with some random chick, on the top of a mountain, during snowboarding lessons.

In S. F. I picked up a girl on the street, after 2 minutes conversation, she's wanting to move to Moscow, hook up with me.

Its all Attitude, Confidence, Humour and Balls. Nothing more. Russian Dyevs are damn good training, but now, American chicks are just no challenge, its too frickin easy.

I can suggest some good reading for anyone who's interested in what I'm reading, on how to get game. Cause I had to unlearn the Western femnazism bullshit that locked me out of girls pants for nigh on 15 years.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.

Doctor_Skank

01-14-09, 17:42

Jake993

01-14-09, 17:42

I can suggest some good reading for anyone who's interested in what I'm reading, on how to get game. Cause I had to unlearn the Western femnazism bullshit that locked me out of girls pants for nigh on 15 years.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
Very interested in some of the reading material you mentioned in the post. You can never have too much "game".

Jake993

01-14-09, 17:54

Proving once again that things don't always go according to plan...

So ISG sex commandos, riddle me this:

How do you deal with a sobbing out of town dev staying overnight who just got a call from her mother that babushka died?

You know these Russian girls, it's more than just worrying about where she's going to get borsht now, they take this stuff seriously. Beyond getting up at 6 to go to the monastir for early morning prayers to the ikon... I've got other problems.

My guess is that I am not getting any ass tonight.

RIP babushka. Really pretty sad stuff having a sobbing 20-year old around the house. :(
Skank,
My condolences - having a sobbing 20 year old is not fun. Oh, too bad about the babushka as well.

I know it's not your thing, but you might want to consider dropping in to Fantasys or Charmel under the guise of going out to buy groceries.

Failing that pal, you are on consoling boyfriend duty tonight. But don't rule out consolation sex either. It's not going to be as hot as regular carnival sex like you usually have but if you dig into your bad of tricks and pretend for a moment that you are dealing with a western girl you might have a chance. Remember - her "game" will be off so she's not going to respond to the normal animal stimulus. This is going to be all about her and her grieving. Get some soup, watch a light romantic comedy on TV, and (God dare I say it?) HOLD her in such a way that reassures her she is safe with you and that sex is the last thing on your mind. Reassure her that Babushka is in peace and reflect on the tremendous times that she had seen in her life time and how she is now in a better place with <<and here's the punch line>> the recently departed Patriarch. Once you get in the sack for some badly needed sleep, you need no more than 30 seconds before she's ready to feel you pain. Or you to feel her pain..... you get what I mean. This shit works every time. Besides, it's the only card you have to play my friend - go boldly.

Doctor_Skank

01-14-09, 18:03

Failing that pal, you are on consoling boyfriend duty tonight. But don't rule out consolation sex either. It's not going to be as hot as regular carnival sex like you usually have but if you dig into your bad of tricks and pretend for a moment that you are dealing with a western girl you might have a chance. Remember - her "game" will be off so she's not going to respond to the normal animal stimulus. This is going to be all about her and her grieving. Get some soup, watch a light romantic comedy on TV, and (God dare I say it?) HOLD her in such a way that reassures her she is safe with you and that sex is the last thing on your mind. Reassure her that Babushka is in peace and reflect on the tremendous times that she had seen in her life time and how she is now in a better place with <<and here's the punch line>> the recently departed Patriarch. Once you get in the sack for some badly needed sleep, you need no more than 30 seconds before she's ready to feel you pain. Or you to feel her pain..... you get what I mean. This shit works every time. Besides, it's the only card you have to play my friend - go boldly.I'm being "horroshi" tonight. It's really the only option and it's the only thing I feel like doing. She's really sad, feeling totally guilty that she isn't at home "where she should be".

Oh well.

As for sex, I really really really doubt I'm getting any... but we're going to dinner... maybe drinks will help. She'll either turn into a crying wreck or something may happen after all. I'm not pushing it, but you never how she'll be.

Actually it's odd, we've gotten really close in the last 2 hours, just talking and softly touching. She's resting now while I type, but we haven't talked like that ever before. It was like a dam broke, she was pouring out the emotion. She really laid it on thick.

Crazy day.

Pizdyets

01-14-09, 18:24

Reassure her that Babushka is in peace and reflect on the tremendous times that she had seen in her life time and how she is now in a better place with <<and here's the punch line>> the recently departed Patriarch.

ROTFL! You're evil, Jake - know that?

Doctor_Skank

01-14-09, 18:57

Very interested in some of the reading material you mentioned in the post. You can never have too much "game".There are several books out on the subject, including "the Game" by Neil Strauss.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(book_on_Pickup_Artists)

There is some truth to what is written, fosho... but I've also seen too many guys taking the techniques to extremes... and verbatim. Everybody needs to adapt any technique to their own strengths and style.

Beyond that, I find that Russia has it's own set of rules. There are inherent characteristics that every girl has, but also significant cultural differences.

Explorer69

01-14-09, 19:02

Proving once again that things don't always go according to plan.

So ISG sex commandos, riddle me this:

How do you deal with a sobbing out of town dev staying overnight who just got a call from her mother that babushka died?

You know these Russian girls, it's more than just worrying about where she's going to get borsht now, they take this stuff seriously. Beyond getting up at 6 to go to the monastir for early morning prayers to the ikon... I've got other problems.

My guess is that I am not getting any ass tonight.

RIP babushka. Really pretty sad stuff having a sobbing 20-year old around the house. :(I had the same thing in Odessa 2 years ago. She was 20, got a call in the middle of the night that babushka was dead (we had just fallen asleep after sex). Then she cried all night and drank a lot of whisky. She was totally drunk the next morning and still drunk and crying when in the afternoon she got on the train.

Moral of story: thank God she didn't get the call before we had finished sex!!

Stravinsky

01-14-09, 23:05

How do you deal with a sobbing out of town dev staying overnight who just got a call from her mother that babushka died?OK, interesting...

It sort of depends, is she just another throw-away? Or is she a keeper?

If she's just a throw-away, then you will probably have to settle for some consolation sex. But, if she's a keeper, then you might want to make that trip to the church and buy a malitvah (paid prayer) for babushka. It's critical for prayers to go up to heaven along with the departed soul. But, you don't have to stand there all night yourself, for a fee the priests will be happy to do this for you. For a small amount of dyengi (money) you could have all the priests praying for babushka's soul for the next 40 days. Talk about touching her russkaya dusha!

Or, you could just kick her out the door in the morning.

Ash1001

01-15-09, 02:52

For a small amount of dyengi (money) you could have all the priests praying for babushka's soul for the next 40 days

Or.. for a bit more, there's always Hotdogs. Unless you love the girl, you really don't want to be spending too much time on this

Jake993

01-15-09, 16:30

ROTFL! You're evil, Jake - know that? I have seen the devil and it is..... well to tell you the truth I see him every morning in the mirror when I shave ;)

Fox7717

01-15-09, 23:32

...But I noticed in the newspapers this morning that Amy Winehouse is apparently of Russian extraction.

Thinks I, that will explain why she's bonkers?!

Ash1001

01-15-09, 23:54

...But I noticed in the newspapers this morning that Amy Winehouse is apparently of Russian extraction.

Thinks I, that will explain why she's bonkers?!

No, it explains why she looks like an ultra low budget tochka girl

Doctor_Skank

01-16-09, 07:10

...But I noticed in the newspapers this morning that Amy Winehouse is apparently of Russian extraction.

Thinks I, that will explain why she's bonkers?!She's the daughter of Jewish parents Mitchell and Janis. Doesn't sound very Russian to me... maybe way back.

Fox7717

01-16-09, 10:53

She's the daughter of Jewish parents Mitchell and Janis. Doesn't sound very Russian to me... maybe way back.

Apparently her great grandparents were Russian (and Jewish) based on 1911 Census listings.

Doctor_Skank

01-16-09, 11:25

Apparently her great grandparents were Russian (and Jewish) based on 1911 Census listings.She was pretty cute before she got into drugs. Glupaya suka... :)
No, it explains why she looks like an ultra low budget tochka girlExactly, which is why I'm pretty sure I actually screwed Amy Winehouse in 2004. )

Aibolit

01-17-09, 03:07

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]RM brings up an important point. Being the "really good guy" as many of us Westerners tend to be is effective only long-term... meaning they'll need months if not years to appreciate it. If ever.

You guys do bring a helpful phylosophical point here. Many of us do indeed have the Western mentality, even though we speak fluent Russian. I think shifting gears to resemble Russian mentality is a psychological challenge, but is duable.

So, I've decided to follow everyone's advice and stop "bitching". I'm ready to try 2 clubs during my week-long stay in Moscow. One I'll try solo and another I'll prefer to try in a company of pick-up gurus like some of you gentlement. From your comments, a significant number of the ladies there should be waiting for one-night stand with me. Will anybody be ready to party around February 19th? I'll be delighted to observe the pros in action and emulate.

Which clubs have the highest density of fresh 18-20 year olds that will be ready to play? Cheers. Aibolit.

Roger Mellie

01-17-09, 13:11

From your comments, a significant number of the ladies there should be waiting for one-night stand with me.

Not sure thats exactly what the comments have implied.

There are no ladies anywhere in the world just waiting for a one night stand. But if you play your cards right, you will have a very good chance. It all comes down to how good a chance you give yourself - how well you play your cards.

Doctor_Skank

01-17-09, 13:48

From your comments, a significant number of the ladies there should be waiting for one-night stand with me.

Which clubs have the highest density of fresh 18-20 year olds that will be ready to play? Cheers. Aibolit.Man, you really didn't understand much of what was written.

Pizdyets

01-17-09, 14:53

From your comments, a significant number of the ladies there should be waiting for one-night stand with me.

I can just imagine it there in the club.

Me: "Privet. I need someone to do some shots with me - you game?"
Dyev: "Sorry, but I'm waiting for this guy named Aibolit. Never met him before, but I just can't wait to spread my legs for him."
Me: "Damn! Not another one!"

Yeah, maybe I should just stay home next month.

Ash1001

01-17-09, 15:10

Me: "Privet. I need someone to do some shots with me - you game?"

This is a fantastic opener. The problem is, I'm usually passed out on the floor drunk before they even get tipsy. Still, if they want to have their way with me while I'm vulnerable, who's complainig? :)

Pizdyets

01-17-09, 15:37

This is a fantastic opener. The problem is, I'm usually passed out on the floor drunk before they even get tipsy. Still, if they want to have their way with me while I'm vulnerable, who's complainig? :)

As long as you're not drinking anything flaming (B52s, Sambuca, etc) then you can always agree with the bartender to pour non-alcoholic for you and alcoholic for her. I have a pretty high tolerance for liquor, so never bothered... Or, employ my favorite technique. Don't show up until all the girls are already wasted (around 4am). Easy pickins.

Also - be careful what you wish for. It's not unheard of for girls to slip something into guys' drinks, wait until they pass out and then empty their wallets (or their entire apartments, as what happened to one of my friends and fellow ISG brothers).

Ash1001

01-17-09, 16:08

Also - be careful what you wish for. It's not unheard of for girls to slip something into guys' drinks, wait until they pass out and then empty their wallets (or their entire apartments, as what happened to one of my friends and fellow ISG brothers).

Oh God yes, I'd forgotten all about that. And with the 'krisis' worsening by the day, I'm sure we'll be hearing a few more stories like thsi.

By the way, has anyone been following the exploits of this expat lawyeress in Moscow?

http://www.deidredare.com/Expat.html

PS I really do wonder exactly what lawyers do in Russia - other than figure out if Russia HAS any laws or not..

Pizdyets

01-17-09, 17:42

By the way, has anyone been following the exploits of this expat lawyeress in Moscow?

http://www.deidredare.com/Expat.html

PS I really do wonder exactly what lawyers do in Russia - other than figure out if Russia HAS any laws or not..

Egad. It's fictional, but even so, she writes about the exact people I fervently avoid here. I'd rather share dinner with a toothless babushka begging in the underground perehod than be subjected to those types for an evening.

I couldn't stomach reading all of it, but I have my doubts on whether or not she really lives (lived?) here. Blackberry's illegal? Faced at Azbuka Vkuza? Western (white) girl shaken down for 2000R on the street? And the way in which she simultaneously maligns the elitny clubs/restos while name dropping them at every opportunity...

I will give her something... her poetry gives the Vogons a run for their money.

Solntsa Yada

01-17-09, 17:51

There are several books out on the subject, including "the Game" by Neil Strauss.

Http://en. Wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(book_on_Pickup_Artists)

There is some truth to what is written, fosho. But I've also seen too many guys taking the techniques to extremes. And verbatim. Everybody needs to adapt any technique to their own strengths and style.

Beyond that, I find that Russia has it's own set of rules. There are inherent characteristics that every girl has, but also significant cultural differences. Yep, The Game is one of my nightshelf books too. Neil had a small team of guys a few years ago, Eban, Mystery, Stiles for example, all got out there and started promoting what they learnt to guys online, or ebooks, I got Ebans stuff (he goes under the name David D'Angelo) and he does some DVDs and Audio CDs interviews with mongers, artists and average guys with natural talent. Mystery does his own videos, and Stiles does e-newsletters and you-tube instructional videos.

True that you cannot use the material verbatim, like a good suit, you have to fit it to your style.

But when it comes down to it, I find that one thing is true, Confidence is king. Girls respond to confidence more than any other trait, How you deliver that confidence is the difference between cultures.

Unfortunate that many dyevs feel that when a man has the confidence, he can confidently go up to a counter and just buy what she wants. These girls need serious re-training on that score, but taking a womans hand and leading, not asking for permission for anything, the classic finger to the lips when she begins to protest.

I had a dyev tell me this a few years ago, which really changed my world: If you have to ask, you don't deserve, and if you allow a complaint, you deserve a nag.

Just before I left Moscow (I'll be back soon) I met a girl in a club, we danced, we grooved, we ground hips together. Then I said I was taking her home, she looked at me strange (like "where do you think your taking me"), I stared at her with a look of dissaproval, (like "How dare you accuse me of that") and said, "we're having tea, and then I'll send you home in a cab". Full confidence and belief that this was going to happen.

At my place, we can't keep our hands off each other, I take steps called 'bridges' from one of the books I have. Its like a two steps forward, one step back, tease, rinse, repeat. And she's practically nude, while I'm dressed, she goes to complain. I put my finger to her lips, and replace with mine. Within minutes she is nude, I'm only shirtless and going down on her.

Looking back on that, I had alot of friggin balls to even try that, yet it worked, freaks me out that it did.

Now, American Girls, the pure confidence, keep your mouth shut, attitude does not even get me close, I have to use more humour, open them up (pun included) mentally, before I get close enough to close.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.

Solntsa Yada

01-17-09, 17:53

I couldn't stomach reading all of it, but I have my doubts on whether or not she really lives (lived? ) here.

I will give her something. Her poetry gives the Vogons a run for their money.Unfortunately I have met her, but I will have to read more to understand if these stories are true or not.

Vogons. Damn this forum needs some kind of approval system do I can green you for that.

Hecker

01-17-09, 23:15

Unfortunately I have met her, but I will have to read more to understand if these stories are true or not.

Vogons. Damn this forum needs some kind of approval system do I can green you for that.Simply it is wrong to apply techniques described in the ''Game'' to russian,ukrainian or belarus women.They simply don't work.They will make you appear weird and untrustworthy.What works is the good old gentleman style which is almost abandoned in the West.

Huge discussion about that etc.Anyway discussion with russian or ukrainian girls is absolutely indifferent and boring to western girls' ears.

Only the core remains the same,not too spiced up as in the West.

Aibolit

01-18-09, 04:10

El Kapitan

01-18-09, 05:25

http://www.rusdosug.com/indi29207.htm

Saw Olenka and she was better than advertised. Arrived as discussed and stayed 3 hrs instead of the agreed 2 hrs at no charge as we were having such a good time. Her English is very good and she is very interested in customer satisfaction. Please treat this wonderful girl well as I have not run across many who have been not only as advertised but above and beyond. I will definitely be a repeat customer. Enjoy.

Pizdyets

01-18-09, 10:10

Now, American Girls, the pure confidence, keep your mouth shut, attitude does not even get me close, I have to use more humour, open them up (pun included) mentally, before I get close enough to close.

Solnechka, glad you're having fun in my rodina. Yeah, humor is a big one with Amerikanki. Big with Russian girls too, but tougher without 100% fluency and the necessary cultural background. As for your success there in the US of A, I think you're getting a bit of a break on the approach being a foreigner - especially a native English speaking one. I remember going to clubs in Vegas with a British wingman and watching him clean up while the girls were asking me "so he's from England... where are YOU from?" "um... California." "oh." You can't underestimate novelty.

Since this is the MOSCOW thread, figured I should actually contribute something apropos. Not sure if it's the time of year (some people still on holiday) or simply no money with the crisis, but the clubs and restaurants are not as crowded as usual. Recently hit Karma, Che, Tunnel, Papa's, Propka, and HD. Still plenty of people, but I'd say 20-50% fewer than late 2008. Putting a positive spin on things, at least Face Control isn't an issue. Would be interesting how things are going at Most, Opera, Rai and the other elitnie kluby. Anyone here go to such places?

Doctor_Skank

01-18-09, 12:39

My comment about girls waiting for one-night stand was intended as a subtle irony on the multiple boastings here that, frankly, do not ring that realistic to me. Here you go - I said this now in a less polite way than my very first posting on the subject.

The postings of Dr. Skank and others do appear as a fantasy to me - the one I would like myself to turn into reality.Well if your comments were indeed meant ironically, then maybe you do have a chance after all. Club life and hitting on girls does require a thick skin as you'll have to take your knocks too. A self-ironic outlook on life is a good start... as long as it doesn't start dominating your persona. One thing you'll find is that it takes some time to "tune in" to the Russian sense of humour. In my experience it takes some time for them to get ours as well. The anglo sense of humour is largely based on irony and sarcasm, with a good degree of word play and tongue-in-cheek self-deprecation. Don't expect your girl to get any of this at the beginning at least... and if she does, hang on to her tight. She's worth her weight in gold. 47kg of gold is a small fortune these days.

Nonetheless, cracking the humour barrier is a challenge... beyond the fact that as Solntsa Yada correctly stated, humour is... at least initially... of secondary importance in angling the Russian dev. Other "qualities" take the forefront for them. One area where humour does work well is when you've got a wingman. If you've got good banter with your wingman and each of you is laughing at each other's puns and jokes, she'll at least know you are a fun guy. Girls LOVE to hear guys talk in a confident, energized way. They tune into your facial expression and aura. Roger Mellie and I have this down to perfection. If we are double dating it's more or less a 90-minute dialogue full of war storeis and sexual innuendo, followed by "let's go have a drink in my apartment". If you are alone with her however, you'll find (depending on her language skill) that she'll take your ironic and sarcastic jokes verbatim and she may just end up thinking you are a weirdo. Weirdos don't do well at clubs. Techniques that do work have been discussed here on this forum at length, although the deciding factor will be adjusting the technique to highlight your strengths and keep you comfortable and confident.

As for stories being reality, they are. As Pizdyets and Mellie also posted, they aren't even that extraordinary. At the same time, the success stories posted here on ISG does not mean that there aren't numerous stories of being ignored and/or rejected by Russian girls or of dates gone bad. As I said, you'll have to have a thick skin and be able to take your knocks... and know when a girl is a write off.

Moreover, you keep refering to one night stands. These indeed do happen, but they are largely the exception rather than the rule. You are more likely to get a girl's number at a club and screw her a day or two later than that night. Just as often, the number you got at the club won't pan out or will require too much time to get the ball rolling. Follow the advice in this forum and pursue MULTIPLE leads. I screwed 4 girls in one extraordinary day once. Banging 2 or 3 in one day is entirely possible. It can happen, but it will require work.

As for age, pulling 18-year olds is entirely possible. They may not be your best market however, as even though they are delightfully naive and curious, they are just as inexperienced and skittish... not to mention that 95% of them live at home with their parents and are limited in their in week mobility by said parents, distance and their university/institute.

I do well with the 18-20 market, but easiest market at least for me is 21-25. A lot of guys do better with 25-29, girls who often are working secretarial type jobs and live alone or share a flat with padruga. A lot of these girls are non-Muscovites as well, meaning from some other region. These girls are even more likely to be interested in a foreign affair than native Muscovites, who usually have established and somewhat exclusive social circles.

Hecker

01-18-09, 13:04

My comment about girls waiting for one-night stand was intended as a subtle irony on the multiple boastings here that, frankly, do not ring that realistic to me. Here you go. I said this now in a less polite way than my very first posting on the subject.

The postings of Dr. Skank and others do appear as a fantasy to me. The one I would like myself to turn into reality. Don't take my doubt wrong. I don't mean to offend and I'd like all your stories to be true. Yet, something tells me they are not. Unless Russian girls are really chronic one-night-standers. I have doubt that so many 18 y. O. Freebies would jump to anyone's bed.

For the above-mentioned reasons, I am ready to to observe one of you gurus in action and prove my doubts wrong (something that I'll do happily). I'll go and have fun solo as well. Any takers. Let me know. Aibolit.Russian humour is very different from english one. In fact english humour sounds like annoyance or common sense without any particular edge to Russian ears. Keep in mind that Russians express their thoughts far more directly than Westerners without being embarrased about being rude, so the simple exposing of truth in order to embarass as it happens in english humour does not sound anything particular humorous to them because they lack the subtlety of manners which would allow it to be understood as opposite to the usual behaviour.

On the contrary Russian humour seems to english people absurd, sadistic, dark and more sad than humorous. I enjoy Russian humour which I find extremely funny. A comedy with elements of Russian humour is ''Gitler kaputt'' which was recently produced.

Westerners do not like Russian mentality and even more they dislike the humour based on this mentality.

However a small tip from me: If you want to appear humorous to any slavic girl, Polish, Czech, Russian or ukrainian, just use Russian humour. It always works.

Jake993

01-18-09, 15:54

Recently hit Karma, Che, Tunnel, Papa's, Propka, and HD. Still plenty of people, but I'd say 20-50% fewer than late 2008. Putting a positive spin on things, at least Face Control isn't an issue. Would be interesting how things are going at Most, Opera, Rai and the other elitnie kluby. Anyone here go to such places? Pizyozha - I have not but my bud who lives in Moscow took a group of visiting VIPs to Opera on Friday night at it was SIGNIFICANTLY down. I phrase he used was "sausage fest" which I guess means that there were all kinds of guys but no babes. I thought the opposite would have been true - but there you go. After a couple of drinks they bailed and went down market to Rock Vegas (www.rock-vegas.ru) and the place was packed with plenty of girls trolling for free drinks and carnival tricks. (Sit on my face and I'll guess your weight baby).

Doctor_Skank

01-18-09, 15:57

Pizyozha - I have not but my bud who lives in Moscow took a group of visiting VIPs to Opera on Friday night at it was SIGNIFICANTLY down. I phrase he used was "sausage fest" which I guess means that there were all kinds of guys but no babes. I thought the opposite would have been true - but there you go. After a couple of drinks they bailed and went down market to Rock Vegas (www.rock-vegas.ru) and the place was packed with plenty of girls trolling for free drinks and carnival tricks. (Sit on my face and I'll guess your weight baby).Rock Vegas? Wow.. that brings back memories... good memories... :) Haven't been there is about 3 years I must confess though. Pyatnitskaya ul. is a nice area in general though.

Restaurants were down last week for sure. Being the only people in a restaurant isn't very romantic at all actually.

As for Opera being a sausage fest, the elitnie klubi have been a bit sausagy for a couple years now, but they were always packed. If they aren't completely packed on weekends (they're only open on Fridays and Saturdays) there is something wrong. Some of them will probably fold anyway. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

Ash1001

01-18-09, 16:21

.. elitnie klubi have been a bit sausagy ..

I always get the feeling that guys who spend too much money do it to impress other GUYS

Aibolit

01-18-09, 16:57

Well if your comments were indeed meant ironically, then maybe you do have a chance after all. Club life and hitting on girls does require a thick skin as you'll have to take your knocks too. .

Thank you for the advice, Dr. Skank. I'll try to follow it, although 1 week seems like very limited time for a newbie like me. Not quite sure if conversation is possible at cannonade-grade noise of the club though. I'll probably go to Che and Fabrique. Any suggestion of what is the best time to show up? My last visit to Moscow (see report) I went to Che at ~10 pm on Tuesday. While I did briefly hook up with a girl there, the pickings were very slim. Someone smartly suggested to show up at ~4 am, to pick up the already wasted clientelle. Will you agree with that suggestion? I typically sleep at 4 am. (:

Another question question that comes up to mind is how do we, Westerners who speak almost perfect Russian, stand out from the native Russian crowd. My understanding is that you speak native-grade Russian. Do you speak only English when picking Russian dyevs or stick to Russian? How one avoids conflict with Russian cave-men in the club environment? My last trip, I almost ended fist-fighing a totally drunk and agressing cave-men in HD. Since I didn't like my privacy to be exposed in any way (stopped by Russian militia for the brawl in a bar is not something that I'm ready to withstand), I had to hold myself up from satisfying my confrontational impulses. Will be glad to hear some wisdom on all the above. Aibolit.

Doctor_Skank

01-18-09, 17:37

I always get the feeling that guys who spend too much money do it to impress other GUYSMay very well be, but the main reason is that feis control/club direktor determines the ratio the only people actually spending money in these clubs are guys... and sales of club cards, VIP tables etc. as also mostly a male domain, although I do some girls with club cards they got "somehow". They certainly didn't buy them.

I've been to several of the elite clubs in the last 3 years or so and the male/female ratio was never better than 50/50 and often 60/40 sausage to peaches. I still like going there, but they aren't inherentely better than the more "demokratic" student or normal schmoo type places.

Doctor_Skank

01-18-09, 17:50

Any suggestion of what is the best time to show up? My last visit to Moscow (see report) I went to Che at ~10 pm on Tuesday. While I did briefly hook up with a girl there, the pickings were very slim. Someone smartly suggested to show up at ~4 am, to pick up the already wasted clientelle. Will you agree with that suggestion? I typically sleep at 4 am. (:

Another question question that comes up to mind is how do we, Westerners who speak almost perfect Russian, stand out from the native Russian crowd. If I am out clubbing I'll usually go out about 12.30 and either stay where I am or move on to another club to get a restart if I am not having luck at club A. I've always felt crunch time was about 02.30-03.00. Clubs usually drain in 2 waves. Wave one about at that time 02.30-03.00 and wave two about 04.00-04.30. Clubs generally die around 05.00 although I've been in them as late as 06.00-07.00 before.

Going at 04.00 to a club to get the drunk chicks isn't a bad ploy, although many of the better girls are gone by then. It isn't my SOP, especially if alone. In a group it is more fun.

Best club nights are obviously Thursday-Saturday, although those clubs that are open on Wednesday and Sunday can be very good too. Getting a good club atmosphere on a Monday or Tuesday is pretty much luck... but since there aren't that many clubs even open on those days, they can sometimes collect a good crowd. Many devs working real jobs have to work weekends and their weekend IS Monday-Tuesday.

Russian... my Russian is merely conversational, it is far from perfect. But it is good enough to get laid. There are 2 schools of thought whether an approach in English or Russian is better and I won't say which is better IMO here, as I believe that is simply a matter of the girl.

Nonetheless, I usually approach in Russian, but depending on the situation will sometimes use English. Going in cold it's usually Russian. First impressions are important and many girls will reject English outright. Once rejected, it's an uphill battle. You can always switch to English later if she's able and willing to speak it. That said, if I have gotten good eye contact or a smile from a girl before approaching, I will often use English and if she's unresponsive, switch to Russian. I personally don't think that English is much of a draw, so I don't wave it around... unless with a group or wingman. In that case it does often draw positive attention.

I've rarely had problems with the Russians. If anything, I've had problems with other expats... for some reason it always seems to be the French. I even like the French actually, so I don't know why that is. Maybe we just like the same women.

Pizdyets

01-18-09, 20:40

If I am out clubbing I'll usually go out about 12.30 and either stay where I am or move on to another club to get a restart if I am not having luck at club A. I've always felt crunch time was about 02.30-03.00. Clubs usually drain in 2 waves. Wave one about at that time 02.30-03.00 and wave two about 04.00-04.30. Clubs generally die around 05.00 although I've been in them as late as 06.00-07.00 before.

Depends heavily upon which club you're in. For whatever reason, I have good luck at Tunnel only after 4am. Other clubs, better between midnight and 3am. In any case, 10pm is WAY too early unless you're hitting some pre-party cafe trolling for girls to take to a club (which is best done with a wingman).

Going at 04.00 to a club to get the drunk chicks isn't a bad ploy, although many of the better girls are gone by then.

Yup, agreed. That's why you need to be equally sloshed. ;)

Nonetheless, I usually approach in Russian, but depending on the situation will sometimes use English. Going in cold it's usually Russian. First impressions are important and many girls will reject English outright.

I always approach in Russian. I figure that my Russian is probably better than their English (>90% of the time it is). And while it's flawed and foreign accented, it shows that I like living here enough that I learned their language. Believe me, there are few foreigners who can speak Russian well, so that will give you big novelty points. Don't squander it by speaking English!

The only exception I can think of is HotDog. I've had a couple of cases where girls outright rejected me when I spoke to them in Russian. Not sure why, but I guess they didn't notice my accent and thought (rightly) that Russians are cheaper than foreigners when it comes to p4p.

I've rarely had problems with the Russians. If anything, I've had problems with other expats...

Ditto. Russians usually just want to drink with me (again - novelty that a foreigner likes living here and speaks Russian). I was frankly very surprised to hear that you got into a fight at HD. I've been there countless times and never experienced any aggression at all (if you don't count the surly b-i-t-c-h working the kassa!)

Doctor_Skank

01-18-09, 21:30

I was frankly very surprised to hear that you got into a fight at HD. Wasn't me that almost got into a fight at HD.

I'm sure there are other incidents I've since forgotten, but mine were:

Near fight with a French guy at Karma Bar yelling how important he was and being a general ass. He was drunk and left.

Near fight with a French guy at Dacha (St.Pete) who was hassling my girl in a really stupid and rude way. He left when I got in his face.

Near fight with a Russian guy at Griboedov (St.Pete) who was calling the girl I was talking to a ***** because she was talking to me, a foreigner, and not him. He wandered off to another dance floor and I never saw him again. Girl was so pissed off at us both she left the club shortly thereafter, although maybe it was because I grabbed her girlfriend's ass.

Just for reference, I've been to Odessa (Ukraine) not nearly as often as Moscow and in those few visits had several incidents, mostly caused by Russians on holiday being total asses and trying to push me out of the way at the bar etc. or local Ukrainian guys getting territorial at the Arkadia beach clubs.

So yeah, in that sense club life in Russia is fairly safe if you keep your radar on.

I will say though that I've heard from several Russian friends that the streets have been getting more aggressive again. I've noticed an increase in the number of bums downtown as well. For the last couple of years they had disappeared, but they're back, complete with their battered and bloodied faces. Can't imagine what their nights look like.

Hecker

01-18-09, 22:04

If you are white, you seldom encounter problems of this nature in Russia or Ukraine.

Pizdyets

01-18-09, 23:33

Wasn't me that almost got into a fight at HD.

Yeah, Doc, sorry I wasn't clear. The hazards of quoting...

I've never gotten into a fight in Moscow, but got close around 7 years ago at Propka. At the time, I didn't speak a word of Russian, but from this guy's actions, he didn't like that I was with a Russian girl - not to mention the two cuties who were with me (I'm not one to wax nostalgic, but damn, those were the fucking DAYS!) He lunged at me, but my girls quickly got between us. After his own girlfriend started freaking out, he left.

Oh, and then there was the time just a couple months ago when I was walking between clubs with a girl. A skinny 20-something druggy approached us and asked for money. Ignored him at first, then politely told him to buzz off, but he wouldn't give up. Then my girl suggested (in English) that we give him something just so he'll go away. Apparently he understood it, and suggested 10 dollars or he "didn't know what might happen". I snapped - got about 5 cm from his face and started yelling the nastiest Russian mat that came into my mind. It was only my second date with that girl, and not knowing me that well (I'm usually pretty mellow) she started to freak out, pulling me away from him. Suppose it was effective, as he quickly turned and walked from us, muttering some shit about how "Russia is for Russians".

That said, no bar patrons can come close to the damage potential of Moscow's finest - the militsia - whose motto is "to protect and to serve ourselves". But that probably warrants a thread of its own.

Doctor_Skank

01-19-09, 00:10

That said, no bar patrons can come close to the damage potential of Moscow's finest - the militsia - whose motto is "to protect and to serve ourselves". But that probably warrants a thread of its own.QFT... although IMO St.Pete's finest schools Moscow's finest on being total dickheads. I hate those fuckers. Been rolled by them twice.

Alex2918

01-19-09, 00:32

First of all thank you very much to all the folks who share there experience and make life of people like us helpful.

Now here is my situation. This summer when I am going to Asia from USA I am planning a 2-3 days stopover in Moscow. I am planning to use that time wisely and want to explore all the potential in that time. My questions are

1. Is it a wise idea to consider this at all? I am asian by look no knowledge of Russian at all?

2. What kind of money will be required for stay and fun in 3 days?

3. Is there some proven and time tested place where I can go and have fun without much haggle?

4. Can I do anything in advance before my trip to make my trip easy and fun?

Ash1001

01-19-09, 02:22

For the last couple of years they had disappeared, but they're back, complete with their battered and bloodied faces. Can't imagine what their nights look like

Those words perfectly describe some street girls I've seen. Weren't we talking about Amy Wino earlier :)

Pizdyets

01-19-09, 08:42

1. Is it a wise idea to consider this at all? I am asian by look no knowledge of Russian at all?

Looking asian, you're subject to be stopped by the police. If staying less than 3 days, you don't need to register at all, and can tell them to fuck off (politely, of course). Otherwise, I wouldn't walk the streets at night alone if I were you. You'd probably be fine, but there are young nationalist skinheads who bust foreigners' heads for fun. Not that common, but still...

2. What kind of money will be required for stay and fun in 3 days?

Depends upon what you're used to. Hotels can be very expensive. I'd recommend getting an apartment in downtown. Decent ones can be had for $150/night, maybe less.

3. Is there some proven and time tested place where I can go and have fun without much haggle?

I'm gonna have to say RTFF here. There are many avenues to have fun in Moscow, and I don't have the inclination to summarize them for you.

4. Can I do anything in advance before my trip to make my trip easy and fun?

Learn some Russian. It will help you immensely to learn the basics (Cyrillic alphabet, counting, greetings, simple negotiations). Don't bother with grammar (which is a total b-i-t-c-h), just focus on vocabulary.

Maglock

01-22-09, 14:13

Usually the hotels will be kind enough to help you out. I noticed that in Saratov. I was in two hotels. Bratislava and another one. And both were courteous enough to call and offer girls. Utah in Yaroslavl offers an average selection for 2000. Dosug. Ru offers a lot of provincial listings, although many are overpriced. Many girls seem to be using love. Mail. Ru and its sister sites to advertize. In Kiev, many girls do this while sitting around in the internet cafe at Bessarabski Rynok! Ukraine is really the best place for P4P right now because Gryvni are effectively 9-10/dollar. Given that they were 5/dollar forever, it seems as if everything is half-priced. That means that the love. Mail. Ru girls are going for less than 50 bucks (write them and they'll write back with prices, which are between 400 and 500 per hour).I read your post and good thing I did hehe. I see you been to Yaroslavl, can you tell me how far the train station is from the airport in Moscow. What is the normal rate? I am flying from ST. Petergbur to Moscow and I have to find my way to the train station in order to travel to Yaroslavl and my Russian is zero to no good. Hope you can help me out thank you. I read alot about this town and I want to visit but definately will do my munching if I get the change but ST. Peterburg oh yea ladies here I come LOL

Maglock

01-22-09, 14:45

I have to say reading all these post is a challenge but the information is awesome! Stravinsky, IT travelor and Doc! You guys are information gurus! My hotel is set up, visa is set and I have my IPOD with usefull Russian translation!

I am all set for ST. But reading all these post I may have to travel to Moscow too! Forget the bloody hotels! I think appartments are the way to go! $600! Yea thats nuts!

Five star hotels in the city center start at $600-$700/night, so I assume you have more money than you know what to do with (any chance of giving some to me?). This is good, because you will need LOTS of money. If you don't speak Russian, then you will have to find women in Moscow who speak English. They exist, and they also know that they are a rare and valuable commodity and will charge you accordingly.

You will have to stick to the expat clubs like NF or Hot Dog's and will be limited to the selection you find there. If you are staying in a first class hotel, then there will also be working girls in the hotel lobby or bar, expensive but you pay for the convenience.

Strip clubs are also a possibility for the Cyrillicly challenged, no verbal communication is necessary. When the girl holds out her hand, you put some money in it. If it's not enough, she will let you know. Just keep on giving the girls money and they keep dancing. What could be easier?

The strip clubs also have private rooms, but on-premises sex is the most expensive in Moscow. The cost of a private room for an hour is around 5 to 7,000 rubles. If you also want a girl who will get naked and do nasty things with you in your private room, prices start at around 6 - 8,000 rubles (in addition to the room) and can go to 15 or 20,000 rubles.

It is possible to take a girl out of a club, but this is also expensive and will require some negotiation with the girl. There are girls in the clubs who might be willing to meet with you "off the clock", but, again, negotiation will be required.

I would take Jake's advice if I were you. Use the next 6 months to learn a little Russian. You should at least learn how to read the Cyrillic alphabet and how to count.

Otherwise, you may as well go to Vegas. You'll enjoy it just as much for a fraction of the cost.

Maglock

01-22-09, 15:10

Doctor Skank

Your post motivate me I like traveling on my own but I have to agree going to the club with a wingman is definitely more fun in the end. The language barrier is a pain but body language, good sense of humor, well groom and confidence go a long way! Women do not respond to timid guys I know I used to be one when I was 15! Once you decide to approach a woman with confidence you will either strike out or catch one!

I have strike out many times but I keep going until I find me the one! Street game is good at least you know what you are getting. Meeting girls of websites can be tricky because you never know what you will get. I know I met a few sexy girls who turn out crazy, bad hygiene oh man terrible!

For guys going on vacation defiantly don’t go for one if you are on vacation meet a many as you can if all fails call girls! LOL I know I had my share when I wasn’t getting any from the club or malls LOL.

For the person who posted 2 weeks man can I take your spot! I am only going 3 days but I am positive I will nail someone!

1) Being alone is not a problem. Going to clubs with a wingman is more fun than alone that is for sure, but I actually do better when I am alone. If you don't want to go to a club alone, just make mamba dates and go from there.

2) www.afisha.ru... in addition to all the places we've talked about here.

3) that's your problem. Like I said, you have to make things happen. Sometimes things fall in your lap, but it's rare. Mamba IS work, but you'll have to invest some effort in your project or it won't happen. I don't use Mamba much anymore personally for exactly that reason. I prefer street game, or meeting girls in clubs or meeting girls through social circles. For you however I do believe Mamba is a good start.

4) 1-2 weeks is enough time, but you will have to make an effort. Sometimes great things happen on day 1, sometimes it takes longer.

Maglock

01-22-09, 15:21

You are one lucky guy Doctor Skank I had the opposite! This is off topic in country so don’t strike me down people! 1st time I went to Ukraine I met a girl from Ivano-Frankov in Kiev! Now I had 10 days of vacation time to be in Kiev but I wanted to know this girl so I went to Ivano Fraknkov with her. I play the nice guy card and respected her. "Wrong move buddy" I should tried to bang her after the second day! I should have left by the 3rd day when I didn’t even received a kiss! She said she liked me and wanted to take it slow, 8 days later still nothing! I lost it and got angry and I said F&&& this I don’t want to be friends I have enough friends, I wasted my vacation with you and I am not going to get laid. I got a slap on the face and she storm out! You smooth your way into her! NICE.

RM brings up an important point. Not only is it very beneficial to have an aire of mystery around you to keep her fascinated and motivated to please, it is important to understand one vital fact:

When a Russian girl thinks that you are REALLY serious about her and you have sent her these signals or even gone out of the way to make her feel that way, the rules change completely. You go from lover to marriage candidate. This may or may not have a positive effect on your sexual relations. I've been at both ends of the spectrum over the years and if I had to choose, I'd say it's ultimately better to be the lover. This is good, because it also gives you a license to be a jerk. Believe it or not, many girls eat it up. They need and crave the drama and it keeps them passionate.

Being the "really good guy" as many of us Westerners tend to be is effective only long-term... meaning they'll need months if not years to appreciate it. If ever.

Drawing upon a recent example from St.Petersburg, I was meeting a super cute 20-year old party girl. Frankly, she was a tease. We had made out in a club about 10 minutes after meeting. I just grabbed her and we started kissing. I was wearing the white shoes if anybody remembers those. I didn't take her home that night, but nonetheless we hit it off and an emotional connection ensued over a couple of weeks of internet communication. She came over one afternoon when I was in Petes and we were talking and she was raving about what a great guy I was. Nice, but where did that get me? Certainly not inside that tight puss of hers. I stopped her mid-sentence and put it on the line. I told her that I wasn't interested in being friends and that if we were going to keep seeing each other, it would have to be on a romantic, sexual level. My feelings for her were passionate and erotic and not merely friendly. I didn't need or want her merely as a friend. I told her to leave and think about it.

She left in a state of mild shock as I shut the door behind her. She called me the next day and we've been fucking ever since.

It's not a bad method and quite frankly, unless you are looking for "just a friend" you have nothing to lose. In a target-rich environment it pays to think this way, even if it goes against your Western upbringing.

Ash1001

01-23-09, 00:14

When a girl says she "wants to take it slow", what she means is she has no intention of providing anything sexual but is happy to be expensively entertained while you gradually figure this out.

I run a mile when I hear those words..

Bez Bezarra

01-23-09, 06:42

i read good hehe.

in yaroslavl, you tell how far train station is from the airport in moscow.

what is rate?

in moscow i to find train to yaroslavl and my russan is zero.

hope you chelp me i want butt munching if i gay here i come lol

the fairy land choo-choo trainy station in yaroslavl is nice and close to the moscow moo-cow airporty, even steven close so that you can skip candy rope down the happy street in your pretty pink skirt!

just ask some big nice strong chechen taxi mans, to tuck your jumper down into his warm car, and he will give you his bear sausage to play with in your dirty [CodeWord116] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord116) chute.

if you really want to take the real butch man locomotive, its 5 hours and costs 300 ru, but maybe you should hold tight to your mommy's hand!

Pizdyets

01-23-09, 16:23

For the person who posted 2 weeks man can I take your spot! I am only going 3 days but I am positive I will nail someone!

Am I the only one thinking that Aibolit needs to call 911 and create the most unholy tag team since Tango met Cash? Will pitch the idea to Nickelodeon as a high-concept reality show - core demographic being young playahs in the making. Stay tuned.

Prosal

01-23-09, 16:45

I've never gotten into a fight in Moscow.
Got a cornea fracture last summer from a quite serious brawl with some intoxicated indian suckers in Tashkent at Diplomat Club.

I spent three days going twice a day to the ophthalmic clinic for pasting my eye and with a thick bandage covering half of my face, in mood for nothing, not even for dyevs.

Pizdyets

01-24-09, 21:46

Got a friend coming into town tomorrow who's asking about tochki. They're not my cup of tea (too close to slavery for my taste), but he really wants to go.

Any idea of what the going rates are? Last time I went (early summer), it was ridiculously expensive: 5K (over $200 at the time) for putrid pariah pussy, twice that for do-able and three times that for actual hotties. Was wondering if they had moved to dollars (or euros) and what the going rates were. Will scan sextalk for some intel as well.

Thx in advance!

Maglock

01-25-09, 09:50

thank you for the lovely song. i am sorry i am not as experience as you are but i am pretty sure i done my fair share of traveling and sacrifice. usmc, blackwater usa.

the fairy land choo-choo trainy station in yaroslavl is nice and close to the moscow moo-cow airporty, even steven close so that you can skip candy rope down the happy street in your pretty pink skirt!

just ask some big nice strong chechen taxi mans, to tuck your jumper down into his warm car, and he will give you his bear sausage to play with in your dirty [CodeWord116] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord116) chute.

if you really want to take the real butch man locomotive, its 5 hours and costs 300 ru, but maybe you should hold tight to your mommy's hand!

Maglock

01-25-09, 09:51

Am I the only one thinking that Aibolit needs to call 911 and create the most unholy tag team since Tango met Cash? Will pitch the idea to Nickelodeon as a high-concept reality show - core demographic being young playahs in the making. Stay tuned.I need to change the name indeed thank you. Working on it! lol

AColonizer

01-25-09, 17:43

Yes, good question, where can we find tochkas in Moscow at this present time? Is there any bad or good news about tochkas?

Member #3395

01-26-09, 03:31

Where is the best place to go in Europe? Is Russia the forum's choice. I'm making travel plans.

Thanks

Doctor_Skank

01-28-09, 21:56

I never thought I'd say this, but things have turned full circle... at least temporarily.

Besides the mongering scene, which probably interests you more than what I am writing about, Moscow has become a CHEAP city... at least in shopping terms.

The ruble is falling and with the Russian government officially stating that they won't support the ruble against the dollar and euro, it is set to fall even farther. Just as a reference, several weeks ago I agreed to screw my sexy secretary for 2500 rubles an hour. It was $100 then. Today, barely a few weeks later, 2500 rubles is about $70.

Shopping. It is not uncommon to see brands such as Pal Zileri, Boss or Prada selling at 70% or more discount. Granted, the goods were 30% overpriced here... but still, 70% off is a major savings. I bought a $1500 Zileri suit today that would retail for $1200 in the US for $500. Three Boss ties for $70 total. Happy times.

Can't decide if I should go to Night Flight and see the discount situation there or if I should instead go to TSUM and buy another suit or a pair of shoes.

Priamos

01-28-09, 22:26

I never thought I'd say this, but things have turned full circle... at least temporarily.

Besides the mongering scene, which probably interests you more than what I am writing about, Moscow has become a CHEAP city... at least in shopping terms.

Perhaps, but... those of us who don't live there still have to pay for the HOTEL! In early November I stayed in a low-key 4-star hotel in Moscow (Marriott Tverskaya) and paid 400 dollars per night - breakfast not included. One week later I staid in a high-browed 5-star hotel in Cologne (Excelsior) and paid 240 dollars per night - breakfast included. Now... German is a much richer country than Russia, so... make your sums. :)

Roger Mellie

01-29-09, 00:25

In early November I stayed in a low-key 4-star hotel in Moscow (Marriott Tverskaya) and paid 400 dollars per night

Proves Skanks point. $400 is CHEAP for 2008 Moscow. Until the credit crisis started to really bite in Moscow about September, you could hardly get ANY Marriott room for under about $900 bux a nite

The Voyager

01-29-09, 00:29

Proves Skanks point. $400 is CHEAP for 2008 Moscow. Until the credit crisis started to really bite in Moscow about September, you could hardly get ANY Marriott room for under about $900 bux a niteStill, moscow hotel prices are just RIDICULOUS, even at the current rate.

I travel quite a bit, and KL (malaysia) is the absolute best in this area, many very good 5* hotel are below 100 USD !!!!.

How moscow can be so expensive in the hotel area is beyond my comprehension ;)

Bez Bezarra

01-29-09, 04:23

I am pretty sure I done my fair share of traveling and sacrifice.
USMC, BLACKWATER USA.

Sir, yessir! I just knew you was a crew cut grunt!
Hoo RAH!!

Thank god for every day in the corps.

And thank you for protecting my sorry ass, and my freedom, to pick my feet and chew redman. This country's full of wankers and profilers, and you sir, are something we all can be proud of. We salute you!

GET SOME, MARINE!!

But don't frag my cherry ass, I'm just another FNG in the DMZ, looking for VC in a hot LZ. What's troubling you is the nature of my game.

And in all fairness, I have not more experience than you do, only active imagination and too many agent orange flashbacks and bad blotter trips.

Semper fi.

Doctor_Skank

01-29-09, 06:19

Perhaps, but... those of us who don't live there still have to pay for the HOTEL! In early November I stayed in a low-key 4-star hotel in Moscow (Marriott Tverskaya) and paid 400 dollars per night - breakfast not included. One week later I staid in a high-browed 5-star hotel in Cologne (Excelsior) and paid 240 dollars per night - breakfast included. Now... German is a much richer country than Russia, so... make your sums. :)Hotels are stupidly overpriced, and still so. There simply aren't (weren't) enough. Hotels had 80% occupancy rates, which allowed them to charge what they felt like. They were going to be full. Now occupancy rates are about 50%... if this continues for a couple of months, prices will go down for 4 star hotels.

I recently stayed at the 4-star Marriott Courtyard. $500/night. Breakfast $40 extra. Internet in rooms $40 extra.

Roger Mellie

01-29-09, 06:58

How moscow can be so expensive in the hotel area is beyond my comprehension ;)

2 reasons ... related to each other.

(1) most simplistically ... supply and demand. For most of 2008 almost every room in every marriott was booked. If they charged 400 bux for those rooms then they would be fools. If your product is being bought regardless of the price, then you need to raise prices. Moscow for a long time has had more demand for hotel rooms than supply. If you are charging 900 bux for a hotel room and still have 85 - 90% occupancy, then you are not charging too much !, regardless of the relative value elsewhere in the world.

(2) ... the root of the issue is land prices. The price of land in central Moscow is sky high. There basically is none. Similarly there is no supply of new buildings. Most exisiting buldings in central moscow are protected (or have residential apartments), and there are no new sites. Ergo, its near impossible to build a new hotel, even if you could get permission past Mr Luzhkov - almost every building is occupied with apartments and there are no new sites. Additionally, with commercial real estate on Tverskaya more expensive than the Champs Elysees and 5th avenue (2nd most expensive in the world only to Oxfors St London) anyone who has property has to get a massive return on it. you cant get the required return by building cheap hotels. Thus, there are none. Again, this comes down to supply and demand ... of land in this case.

Capitalism 101.

- - -

Note ... this is changing rapidly ... prices at the Marriotts have collapsed from 900 bux to 400 due to small chnages in demand. $400 has kinda been their "base rate" in the last few years. Not sure it will fall more even with a fall in demand. The hotels may dig there heels in and collude to put a floor in the prices ... at least for now.

- - -

Another thing to bear in mind ... you were comparing a hotel in moscow and a hotel in Koeln ... so why did you say Germany is richer than Russia? You should be comparing Koeln and Moscow ... and i will tell you now the average disposable income in Moscow is a LOT higher than in Koln ... and there are a hell of a lot more millionaires and billionaires in Moscow than Koeln. Land prices are a LOT higher in Moscow than Koeln. Salaries for professionals are a LOT higher in Moscow than Koeln - as recently as June, a bird I know in Moscow who was trying to recruit graduates (about 22-23 years old) straight out of university, was getting no takers offering $60k a year. She had to offer $72k a year to fill the positions ,,.. graduate positions, and remember thats with a 13% income tax. I dont even think I personally know of any professionals in their late 20s earning less than $100k a year in Moscow. All the late 20s Muscovites I know make more than that. (this is all changing rapidly ... pre crisis situation info)

But bearing all that in mind, maybe it not that suprising that hotel rooms are higher in Moscow than Koeln after all.

Ash1001

01-29-09, 14:48

... I dont even think I personally know of any professionals in their late 20s earning less than $100k a year in Moscow ...

Classic sign of a bubble. The LESS knowledge and experience you have, the more money you make.

Roger Mellie

01-29-09, 15:29

Classic sign of a bubble. The LESS knowledge and experience you have, the more money you make.

not necessarily... the fact that a graduate in manhattan or london makes 3 times as much as a graduate from rural new zealand with the same qualifications doesnt mean theres a bubble in manhattan when compared to hillbillyville new zealand.

again, its all supply and demand.

prices are not crashing because of any russian bubble, but because of the US housing bubble

Doctor_Skank

01-29-09, 16:11

prices are not crashing because of any russian bubble, but because of the US housing bubbleThat was certainly the catalyst, but the crisis has pulled the carpet away and we can see the roaches living underneath.

Based on the info I am gathering now on location, it is truly alarming.

I'm hoping it's just the Russians being their emotional selves and overreacting pessimistically, but things are actually worse than I thought they would be. The next several months will be testing.

Roger Mellie

01-29-09, 16:19

Doctor_Skank

01-29-09, 17:01

one thing that is clear is the Darwinian nature of the dyev. As news filters through of an exodus of the young and formerly wealthy to the likes of Phuket and Goa, i have had no less than 4 dyevs ask me if they too should head to Goa or Phuket and catch someone with money. its blatent and shameless. They smell the fear on the streets of Moscow and want to know whats the safest play.

Foreigners may even get some WGF backIt is and if it didn't potentially play into our hands, I'd find it even depressing.

One girl from Petes who had gone more or less cold on me about 6 months ago is more or less begging me to invite her to Moscow.

It's too early to call it panic, but that moment is closer than the "Russia Strong" crew would have dreamed possible a year ago.

My driver told me to pay him in dollars, euros or whatever. He didn't want rubles. There is real uncertainty here.

Jake993

01-29-09, 17:18

My driver told me to pay him in dollars, euros or whatever. He didn't want rubles. There is real uncertainty here.I am headed over on Feb 7th so if that's true then perhaps I need to bring USD rather than get rubles from the ATM. What's the max I can bring in w/o declaration? less than $3,000? I forget.

Doctor_Skank

01-29-09, 17:21

I am headed over on Feb 7th so if that's true then perhaps I need to bring USD rather than get rubles from the ATM. What's the max I can bring in w/o declaration? less than $3,000? I forget.You can still get rubles everywhere and pay with them, even though I have heard some ATMs etc. have run out of dollars and euros.

The ruble has lost like 25% in the last couple weeks, so people are genuinely worried that it is going to fall even more.

Russians are "hot or cold" or "top or flop" kind of people and extremely emotional, not to mention fatalistic.... so they are quick to react to instability of any sort. I'm not clever enough to know what will happen in the next few weeks and months, but the mood here is pretty grim among both "normal people" and "biznessmyen".

I even heard Putin's name used in vain today on occasion.

It is not like the lights have gone out here or anything, but I genuinely suggest being a bít more careful on the streets. They're getting a bit testy.

One good thing, traffic is down significantly.

I've only been here since last Friday and will stay until next Wednesday, so my impression is based on just a week and a half. The true "locals" will be able to judge things better.

Gentleman Travel

01-29-09, 17:58

It is and if it didn't potentially play into our hands, I'd find it even depressing.

One girl from Petes who had gone more or less cold on me about 6 months ago is more or less begging me to invite her to Moscow.
I don't have Skank's thick address book, only a handful of contacts,
but I was pleasantly surprised to find some of the girls I had given up on
(for lack of maintenance on my part - haven't been back in more than 1 year)
re-establishing contact, out of the blue. Three in the last month.
These are not even girls I have screwed, just one dater and two pen-pal prospects.
But all of a sudden they have revisited their old address books and renewed contact with me.

Now, I just have to get over there to capitalize on this....

Helena Moscow

01-29-09, 18:05

I am headed over on Feb 7th so if that's true then perhaps I need to bring USD rather than get rubles from the ATM. What's the max I can bring in w/o declaration? less than $3,000? I forget.Up to 3000$ with no declaration. Up to 10000$ without permisstion but need to declare. All currency in your wallet and pockets counts (rubles + $ + EUR + whatsoever).

Roger Mellie

01-29-09, 19:38

Be interesting to hear from the mangus meister about the credit crunch and what its doing to prices in the provinces.

Ash1001

01-29-09, 19:55

prices are not crashing because of any russian bubble, but because of the US housing bubble

Please reassure us all that you don't actually believe this? That you were just doing a very good Putin impersonation? :)

Helena Moscow

01-29-09, 22:57

prices are not crashing because of any russian bubble, but because of the US housing bubbleIn Moscow nothing is crushing. Prices for real estate remain the same. They just "crushed" some 5-10% in December, mostly because of holidays. Now they restore. Other things only grow in price. And very, very fast.

Laoshu2

01-30-09, 08:20

In Moscow nothing is crushing. Prices for real estate remain the same. They just "crushed" some 5-10% in December, mostly because of holidays. Now they restore. Other things only grow in price. And very, very fast.Well besides that apartments can be rented about 25-30% below prices 6 months ago. Yes indeed some prices are going up (in Rubles) because the Ruble is loosing fast fast fast. In terms of prices in Euro or USD stable. And yes traffic seems to ease. Less cues at airport. Hotels have lower occupancy. Meaning less men to pay top $ for ladies. Hmmm market forces are bringing pricing down. Of course if you opt for the 10's only you will pay.

Pizdyets

01-30-09, 08:42

In Moscow nothing is crushing. Prices for real estate remain the same. They just "crushed" some 5-10% in December, mostly because of holidays. Now they restore. Other things only grow in price. And very, very fast.

Real estate prices haven't ostensibly fallen because sellers aren't willing to publicly announce that their properties have fallen in value. In real terms, however, they have dropped dramatically. This isn't speculation - I've been a part of real estate deals of late, and prices are down in some cases up to 50% in euro/dollar terms. In any case, it's hard to judge exactly as volume is near zero.

That said, Lenichka rightly points out that inflation is rising fast as the ruble's value deteriorates. Which goes back to Doc's point. If previously imported goods weren't marked up, then they can seem to be a bargain from a foreigner's standpoint. If however, you're paid in rubles, the price remains the same, and newly imported goods will be subject to a less favorable exchange rate. Meaning from a Russian's standpoint prices are going up... and fast.

Fortunately for those in the p4p sector, dyeffki are a domestic commodity.

Ash1001

01-30-09, 12:27

Excess

01-30-09, 12:43

Indeed things are moving along in a down direction along with the rouble as monger reporting suggests. The Moscow Marriott Courtyard Fiscal Index is preparing for the next down shift. Prices indeed rise as Ms H. reports - in rouble terms which is the only one that effects most of the indigenous pop.

Dr. S. has reported in the US $ equivalent movement of his 2500 rouble contribution to the local economy.

Euro also down and US $ up so a move in providers' price lists back to US$ from Euros which occurred early last year and late year before is in the cards. Playing the Euro card provided a nice flip in revenues to providers but is wearing thin today.

One can be pretty confident, in my opinion, that the downward slide will continue to increase during the year. The conumdrum is: Massive and regular debt roll-overs are pre-programmed for all of 2009 and 2010 in foreign currency (mostly US$) for Russian State and non-state organs. Russian federal reserves have undergone a large drain to keep the rouble from completely going down the rat hole. Western funds money has largely packed up and gone and haven't heard of too many Western politicians and bankers talking about sending funds to Mother in support. Oil price revenues? 'Nuff said.

What we have here is a failure to postion liquid assets in line with regularly coming due liabilities. And not much help coming over the hill to bridge the gaps.

The next and further monger confirmation will be the regular sightings of SexySecretaries in the reformed Tochki, spreading through the outskirts. It is going to get very ugly and unpredictable. Vlado had better ensure that his private jet is fueled up, ready and on reliable 24 hour guard, just in case the crowd becomes too demanding.

For seasoned mongers, a bit of deja vue and for the adventurous a bit of nostalgia to be relived. Roll on the tumbrels .

All positive or the US$ until later in the year when the treasury induced wall of debt causes it to take its turn to fall off the table. Tochki forming in Lower Manhatten in 2010, well who knows ? A mattress factory may be a boomer of an investment over the next 3 years.

E.

Prosal

01-30-09, 13:15

Today 1,00 € = 46 RUB.

Any chances that this could continue and effectively mean 50 or 55 RUB to the € before this summer ?

Doctor_Skank

01-30-09, 13:20

Today 1,00 € = 46 RUB.

Any chances that this could continue and effectively mean 50 or 55 RUB to the € before this summer ?By next Tuesday...

Nobody knows of course, but the Russian government has stopped supporting the ruble as strongly as before. I expect it to fall some more and things to get worse before they get better.
In Moscow nothing is crushing. Prices for real estate remain the same. They just "crushed" some 5-10% in December, mostly because of holidays. Now they restore. Other things only grow in price. And very, very fast.
That's due to currency deflation. Loss of confidence in the Russian economy, loss of value for the ruble.

Eventual benefits for locally produced goods for export, combined with import tariffs also for the domestic economy, but everything imported will go up in price.

Helena Moscow

01-30-09, 20:08

Helena, in the last 6 months the price of a barrel of oil has fallen by more than $100. The Russian economy is almost wholly dependent on commodities exports. And you think real estate prices won't fall?I don't think. I'm telling you the fact. We were all waiting for the crisis here in a hope for cheaper real estate. But the prices almost didn't change. Sometimes they are advertised as reduced, but when it comes to the deal they grow again on some stupid pretext that something was not included or so. Only renting prices fell down about 20% or so. May be within the next months something more serious will happen, but what I see now - nobody of who I know feels any crisis. We already joke that the crisis is a legend invented by companies to find a way easily fire people and hire new stuff cheaper.

AColonizer

01-31-09, 00:29

What is happening in Russia and Ukraine? Ruble is going down and prices in Moscow are quoted in dollars? If this is true, nothing won't change in Moscow. Who can inform about prices for P4P now?

Roger Mellie

01-31-09, 00:47

Please reassure us all that you don't actually believe this? That you were just doing a very good Putin impersonation? :)

Sorry ... i cant reassure you.

Absolutely I believe that.

If there was no US subprime crisis, then ther would be no global credit crunch and it would be business as usual in Moscow ... and London and Beijing and Frankfurt and Sydney and Johannesburg. ... and Detroit.

But its not business as usual in Moscow, nor is it business as usual in London, Beijing, Sydney or Johannesburg.... Or Detroit.

If you want to see my Putin impersonation, thats something different altogether. It involes me walking with one arm stiff by my side and a tiger tranquiliser dart in my top pocket. Its an impersonation that drives the italian boys wild

Helena Moscow

01-31-09, 00:48

What is happening in Russia and Ukraine? Ruble is going down and prices in Moscow are quoted in dollars? If this is true, nothing won't change in Moscow. Who can inform about prices for P4P now?Ruble is going down, prices are displayed in rubles, but recalculated almost daily according to euro's rate. Some companies returned to so called "у.е." (a sort of assumed currency), which is most cases the equivalent of euro.

Roger Mellie

01-31-09, 00:50

I don't think. I'm telling you the fact. We were all waiting for the crisis here in a hope for cheaper real estate. But the prices almost didn't change.

Well a luxury property in central moscow I am familiar with that was about to rent for $18k a month just 6 months ago is on the market at $7k a month now.

Which part of that price is almost not changing?

Roger Mellie

01-31-09, 01:00

Today 1,00 € = 46 RUB.

Any chances that this could continue and effectively mean 50 or 55 RUB to the € before this summer ?

Might touch 50 ... but that depends if EUR strengthens vs the USD

The Russian central bank drew a line in the sand this week and said they will defend the currency basket at 41. The basket is made up of 55 us cents plus 45 euro cents. Much of the market now believes them. Today for the first time in 6 months, I saw buy recommendations on the ruble against the basket.

A bit of simple maths will tell you that if they do defend 41 ... Euro can hit 50 rubles only if the USD falls back to 33.64 rubles. That would mean a EURUSD exchange rate of 1.4863. Presently EURUSD is a fair way away from that at around 1.2800.

Anything is possible, but its probable the ruble has already had its big move.

Roger Mellie

01-31-09, 01:36

Classic sign of a bubble. The LESS knowledge and experience you have, the more money you make.

Tell me you seriously dont believe that is a classic sign of a bubble ? :-)

An experienced engineer who can build bridges in indonesia gets paid a quarter as much as a barely literate unskilled London tube driver who got the job a month ago cause his dad is in ASLEF.

So you are saying the UK economy is a bubble that should collapse down to indonesian wage levels? ... cause the guy with less knowledge and experience is getting loads more cash in London ... right? That was your logic?

Just cause you are jealous that someone in another country or city can make more than you with less education, skills or experience does not mean there is any bubble at all. A bus driver in Madras makes a 50th (as in 2%) as much as a bus driver in Zurich with exactly the same experience, education and skill levels. It doesnt mean JACK about bubbles.

It just means there are different costs of living and there is a different balance between supply and demand.

Stravinsky

01-31-09, 07:18

Doctor_Skank

01-31-09, 10:27

May be within the next months something more serious will happen, but what I see now - nobody of who I know feels any crisis. We already joke that the crisis is a legend invented by companies to find a way easily fire people and hire new stuff cheaper.Helena, as an example, a car dealership owning friend of mine who sold 3 cars a day in October sold a total of 3 cars a MONTH in November and December and now January. He'd pre-ordered 6 truckloads of cars in the fall that are due to be delivered but he's left them sitting at the customs border because he doesn't want them anymore. His customers have backed off, he can't get loans from the bank. Many people in sales have lost their jobs. Major companies have stopped paying their bills for goods purchased and lost their credit ratings. Office property rent has been cut in half. Moscow-City has seized construction on several projects. Others have been cancelled entirely. Most sales outlets I work with directly are predicting between 30 and 50% less business in 2009. A Swiss pilot friend of mine who flies both politicians, oligarchs and co. in their private jets complained to me that he is basically unemployed now. The jets are sitting idle or being sold off. Hotels are at 50% occupancy. Flights to Moscow reduced in quantity. Production in the resources sectors is down considerably. I've heard the same jokes you have and people laugh at them until they are the ones without work. Wait until the migrant workers lose their jobs (many have already) and have no money and times of their hands. It could get ugly. There IS a crisis and either you are just keeping an overly optimistic stiff upper lip or are incredibly naive. How long or how serious the crisis will get is still up in the air.

Supply and demand overvalued goods and services in Moscow, with demand falling dramatically and supply still increasing, prices will fall.

Mid-level real estate is one area that will hold steady for a while, as demand is still there. As RM said however, high-end real estate and office space is falling.

I'm hoping for recovery in summer or fall, but am an optimist. I'll use the "down time" to consolidate and improve my position. And maybe get laid now and then.

By the way, small attempts to cheat people are on the rise again. Exchanging money at the airport a cute innocent blonde teller girl tried to short me 1000 rubles, waiters are collecting bills and "forgetting" to return change until you remind them, other waiters are taking your cash and bringing your change without a bill (keeping bill amount themselves). This always happened before to a certain degree, but I've had it happen a lot more recently. People are worried, jokes or not.

Roger Mellie

01-31-09, 11:12

Ash was referring to your friend who was having difficulty recruiting newly minted MBA's (I assume) and had to throw increasing amounts of cash at them in order to persuade them to accept a position. Increasing amounts of money persuing diminishing resources is a classic sign of a bubble; whether it's tulip bulbs or internet IPO's.

As you said yourself, it's a matter of supply and demand...

here's the thing ... they werent even MBAs ... just regular grad jobs.

Be careful throwing around the word "bubble" ... its very misused. Tulip bubbles, internet stock bubbles and US sub prime bubbles are one thing, but the russian economy is something totally different.

Tulips were a bubble because fundamentally they are worthless (and supply is potentially infinite). Prices were supported by meaningless demand. That demand disappeared and the prices collapsed and have not recovered in 300 years.

Internet stocks were a bubble because you paid money for a stock that was supposed to return a stream of money. When you paid a lot of money for stocks that had no possibility of ever returning you money unless the stock price went up, then its a bubble... you are buying nothing, except momentum. It was a meaningless concept. it was a bubble.

Sub prime mortagages were a bubble because banks and insurance companies bought what they thought were A rated investments (and priced them accordingly) when they probability of default meant that those instruments should have been priced far far lower. Fundamentally, what they bought could never be repaid. The economy as a whole could not logically get good value from the investment. Ergo, that was a bubble.

The Russian economy is completely different. Its underpinned by oil, gas, and increasing steel, nickel, gold, palladium etc exports. These are not whimsical items like tulips or ivory ... there was and always will be essential global demand for those products. Unlike tulips (or internet stocks) you cannot just increase supply when demand picks up. Unlike buying internet stocks or sub prime mortgages, you are not paying money for a future stream of income, so you cannot say there is a "fundamental" price for those items. You can not look at your likely returns and say the fundamental value of oil is X. You can do that with stocks, or mortgages - you can price them on what they should be worth, based on your knowledge of what they should return to you.

But something like oil ... there is nothing fundamental that says it cant be $10 / bbl or $200 / bbl. The world will buy pretty much the same amount of the stuff at either price(give or take 2-3%). The Russian economy is underpinned by it. If the oil price goes back to $150 bux or more, then the whole economic picture changes. In this scenario, its possible for Russia to boom again, even while the west is bogged down in economic malaise for the next 5 years. Oh how Putin would love that. In fact, oil at $150 will help contribute to the western economic misery. The irony will not have escaped VVP

And if that happens, then the disparity between professional wages in Moscow and professional wages in the west will again blow out. Those rapidly increasing wages in Russia are NOT a bubble, if the money available in Russia to pay for them is also growing at a whopping rate ... which has happened over the past 8 years as oil has gone from 10 bux /bbl to $150/bbl. If a company needs to recruit staff to expand its business, and each additional staff member will allow the company to increase its revenues by $1 mio per every 5 staff, then hiring anyone below $200,000 a year is economically justified ... i.e. its not a bubble. $72,000 per annum for a grad might sound a huge amount of money to we impoverished westerners, but its not part of a bubble if it is economically justified.

Dont get me wrong, russians are the type of people who are prone to bubbles ... overly happy and confident, or overly depressed and gloomy. But in the current case, I dont believe russian wages or the russian economy represents any type of bubble. Price movements have been logically justifyable by the increases in the amount of money flowing thru the economy and the massive increases in productivity over the past 10 years. The russians have been hit by totally external factors ... bubbles on the otherhand, self-prick.

The very fact that the Russian economy could rapidly bounce back with a pick up in oil prices confirms it was not a bubble. Bubbles dont rapidly reinflate. They burst.

To make it clearer ... too much money chasing too ofew resources is a classic sign of "inflation" ... Inflation and a bubble are sorta kinda totally different concepts. Inflation can be caused by too much money chasing too few resources, while a bubble is caused by irrational demand.

Sorry for the economic lectures, but as I said earlier, the word "Bubble" is misunderstood and often misused. There is a lot of schadenfreude the last few days over the relative impoverishment of Russia. A lot of pent up jealousy and annoyance at how we foreigners have been screwed by price rises there ... how for the last few years Russian guys have been clearly able to outspend us ... and how joyous it is that we westerners are now potentially back in the ascendency.

Enjoy it, take advantage of it, milk it for all its worth, cause I believe its a short term distortion in the long term trend of Russian economic resurgence.

Make hay while the sun shines boys.! (and for gods sake, please take - and post - lots of fotos while you are making that hay)

AColonizer

01-31-09, 15:12

Hi! Who knows which bank is most reliable to open a bank account in Moscow?

Could anybody help us?

PM accepted.

Thanks

Helena Moscow

01-31-09, 16:40

Well a luxury property in central moscow I am familiar with that was about to rent for $18k a month just 6 months ago is on the market at $7k a month now.

Which part of that price is almost not changing?Middle-class property in good areas didn't change. Or changed ridiculously little. I mean buy-sell prices. Rent yes, reduced.

Horatio 1

01-31-09, 17:49

Looks like I'm going to Moscow. Been a member of this site for quite a while, but never had much to say, because I never go anywhere. It's all just a fantasy that I live through vicariously, thanks to you brave few. Well, fuck that, I want to "explore" the wilds of FSU. I want to go in Febuary. Is this a good time to go? Bez, I know you are the voice of experience here. Where can I get the best apartment? How do I find a driver (who speaks English) for a decent price? Where the fuck do I start? Tickets, high priced visa, transport? I need some pointers before I go as not to waste time on the learning curve, so I ask you, any of you, for some help here. Love the site, love the reports, photos, info... No more lurking, want to write my own report(s). ***** ratio

Jake993

01-31-09, 20:13

Enjoy it, take advantage of it, milk it for all its worth, cause I believe its a short term distortion in the long term trend of Russian economic resurgence.

Make hay while the sun shines boys.! (and for gods sake, please take - and post - lots of fotos while you are making that hay)RM, thanks for the lecture - seriously. Nicely done and explained.

My prediction is that on December 31, 2009 oil will be at between $82 - $96. A year later(December 31, 2010), that $147 we saw lat summer is going to look like a fond memory. Real supply and demand will start to kick in sometime this summer I am guessing. Once all of those short sold oil futures run their course, REAL S&D for crude and petroleum products will start to affect the price and there will be little to hold it back. If anyone follows Matt Simmons (Simmons and Co.), his most recent report paints a very scary picture indeed. A few highlights are;

- Middle East producers are now facing deficit spending
- Key project have been postponed or canceled
- Drilling rigs are now being decommissioned
- Credit crisis has stalled construction of new rigs.
- Even at $147 a barrel, the crude SUPPLY did NOT increase.

Prices today and not based on supply and demand. They are a remnant of the commodities futures market that got sold off at fire sale prices in order to raise badly needed short term cash. Once those contracts work their way through the system it's all over for cheap oil.

It just is not possible for the world to convert to an alternative energy source quickly enough to avoid oil prices to run up past $200 in the next 3 - 5 years. In the long term, it's probably reasonable but in the short term; not a chance. Increased demand in for oil in China and India is continuing to surge DESPITE the reduced demand for oil in Western Europe and North America due to the price increases of last summer. Disruptions in drilling due to to current conditions are going to push the crude supply curve further and further behind demand.

So what does that mean for Russia? Back to the future. Does anyone want to guess what the oil prices was back in 1998 during the last Russian financial crisis? It was $10. Even today at $40, things are not even close to where they were. When the oil price surges, so will the Russian economy. And we all know what that means don't we?

So enjoy any low prices while you can boys, because the party will be over before you know it.

Doctor_Skank

01-31-09, 21:39

Helena Moscow

02-01-09, 00:31

Hi! Who knows which bank is most reliable to open a bank account in Moscow?

Could anybody help us?

PM accepted.

ThanksSberbank, Raffaisen and VTB24 seem to be still ok.

Hecker

02-01-09, 11:27

Thanks for your insight fellas!

BTW: High oil prices ARE my business. The higher oil goes, the better I do. I don't see recovery as quickly as some of you do however, as low resource prices aren't the only factor blocking growth/recovery right now.The low oil price will remain for a long time because the sales to China have been reduced and it has happened because the buyers have lost their confidence in the cheaply produced through outsourcing chinese products.

So the roots of the crisis are deep and till the people gain again confidence in the quality of products they buy,the situation will continue like this with valuable russian oil turning into shitty chinese products.

In order to improve the trust to products,the production has to shift again to reliable countries like Germany(which will produce with help of russian resources) and this is the plan that Germans and Putin try to reinforce but US and UK oppose.
Only then will be the russian oil valuable again and the russian dominance in Siberia and Far East gueranteed(which guarantees the wealth through availability of resources secured through military presence).

The only viable senario for the West to be impoverished while russian economy flourishes is the deepening of this russian-german axis and its communication far above the common decision makers(of course a senario which provokes or sets war as a probable means or consequence).

The Germans are probably not ready to accept the russian bear in such a degree but they do not want to see it weakening either and play the US game.So there are balances and this means that the exodus from the crisis will be very slow and painful and with setbacks.

Of course what concerns us is the attitude of debuskas and how it is affected by the oil prices.

Jake993

02-01-09, 18:21

I have seen posts here that there have been isolated occasions where people have heard disparaging remarks about VVP (Vladimir Vladimirovich). But I didn't know about these sort of demonstrations.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/mobile/bbc_news/world/europe/786/78623/story7862370.shtml
Does anyone know if these are just isolated incidents and the stirring of political unrest by rival political parties or is there something to this?

Redpirateship

02-01-09, 21:10

The Russian economy is completely different. Its underpinned by oil, gas, and increasing steel, nickel, gold, palladium etc exports. These are not whimsical items like tulips or ivory ... there was and always will be essential global demand for those products. I don't agree. Look at Japanese real estate bubble back in 90s. There were real demands for those lands and apartments because japan is so crowded. Like any limited resources, whether its fundamental or whimsical, its price went through the roof when they were buying real estates and houses like crazy. But, when it was too much, the bubble popped and still has not recovered.

A cousin of mine who worked at Goldman Sachs told me that those oil prices were pumped up by investment banks and hedge funds because they knew they were making a sure bet and they did make money while it lasted, rather than backed by real demands. They were buying back and forth between them to raise price. They simply had too much money in their hands and looking for any places to put their money. After IT and Mortgage back security (many people inside knew it was failing). So, they needed new bubbles, they were oil and other future goods. So, it was a bubble.

My point is. Although oil and other fundamental goods have real demands, its price might not come back up any time soon because investment banks and hedge fund have lost too much money this time and have no money to play with. So, the oil price is now upto real demands from the world economy. And like many people said already, it is a dark tunnel with no lights in sight.

I envy you guys in the candyland. And hope you enjoy the good time. (or bad time for devs.)

AColonizer

02-01-09, 22:53

Hecker,

It seems Germans are trying to conquer the world again. Before, years ago, joint ventures between German and American companies, such as Mercedes / Chrysler; now British economy are going very down and they need Euro; in the future Russians will work for Germany: is it time to learn German language too?

AColonizer

02-01-09, 23:09

Doctor_Skank

02-02-09, 00:03

About Moscow facilities.

It is not fast to find past information by the thread search tool in this forum. Therefore I beg for your help about:

- Where are the most important Internet centers / cafes in the center of Moscow?

- Where are the biggest supermarkets and shopping centers in the center of Moscow?
First of all, define "center". Most expats/mongers think the center is Tverskaya ul between Pushkin Square and Red Square, which is about a 15 minute walk and really only a tiny part of the center... whereas most Russians define the center as anything inside the garden ring. Moscow is huge, if you haven't been there before it is much much larger than Kiev for example.

Internet: take your laptop to a bar or cafe and use their free wifi. If you really need an internet cafe try CafeMax near Novoslobodskaya Metro.

Shopping for food: Eliseev shopping center near Pushkin Square for the experience and any Sedmoi Kontinent chain store or similar for actual shopping at affordable prices. Neither place is good for pickups however.

Shopping for goods: Manezhnaya Mall on Red Square, TSUM on Neglinaya or GUM near Red Square or Atrium near Kursky train station/Zemlenoy Val. There is no shortage of shopping opportunities in Moscow.

Agencies: google "moscow apartment short-term"
I have seen posts here that there have been isolated occasions where people have heard disparaging remarks about VVP (Vladimir Vladimirovich). But I didn't know about these sort of demonstrations.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/mobile/bbc_news/world/europe/786/78623/story7862370.shtml
Does anyone know if these are just isolated incidents and the stirring of political unrest by rival political parties or is there something to this?AFAIK isolated and largely stirred by political groups with little support.

Ash1001

02-02-09, 02:48

Roger Mellie, man who watches too much Russian telly ;)

Your argument that Russia's long term boom is assured because of the inherent value of raw materials in the ground is one you could pretty much apply to most African countries. God (or fossils and meteor bombardment) put those minerals there, and this 'wealth' has nothing to do with the Russians' ability to manage companies, invest or protect capital (particularly when it's owned by foreigners) or adopt an even vaguely standard international approach to doing business.

The upshot of these discussions so far is that Russia is essentially a banana republic that can't grow bananas (that's one Jim Rogers should use).

Also I can assure you that no graduate trainee in any sector has ever, or ever will (in today's money) earn 100k $/£/EUR, right here in central London, where we've had multimillion pound properties for far longer than Moscow. Russian companies' desire to pay this kind of money shows they essentially have no idea what they're doing. It's this kind of (lack of) thinking that turns booms into frenzies and busts into riots.

The high price of oil was an interrogation light that simply blinded people. Now some vision is returning.

Ash1001

02-02-09, 02:57

Here's an interesting one: if you wanted to bet on Russia recovering, would you buy the Russian stock market index or a generalised global commodity index?

The question is rhetorical of course, and the answer simply reflects the fact that the world's juciest pile of goodies in buried in the ground of the world's worst run economy.

There IS a crisis and either you are just keeping an overly optimistic stiff upper lip or are incredibly naive

Give her a break Skank, she needs to sell her overpriced hos :)

Jake993

02-02-09, 15:49

a cousin of mine who worked at goldman sachs told me that those oil prices were pumped up by investment banks and hedge funds because they knew they were making a sure bet and they did make money while it lasted, rather than backed by real demands. they were buying back and forth between them to raise price. they simply had too much money in their hands and looking for any places to put their money. after it and mortgage back security (many people inside knew it was failing). so, they needed new bubbles, they were oil and other future goods. so, it was a bubble.
red - thanks for sharing the info from your cousin. i have always suspected something like that was going on but not being a wall street insider, i had no way to confirm what we were seeing. as a 25+ veteran of the oil industry, i can tell you without hesitation that i have (just about) seen it all. i have survived $10 a barrel and have been drunk with euphoria over $147. but once the glamor is scraped away, the fact remains that oil (and gas of course) is just a commodity business. and like all commodities is subject to speculation over future demand. $40 a barrel today is not any more "real" than $147 was last summer.

i'm just speculating on what the speculators will do (dangerous practice) but i think with so much less cash floating around looking for a place to go, oil speculation has fallen from fashion and once the current cheap oil contracts have run through the system, the price will follow real supply and demand for a while. and that's the part no one really knows. will it be $50 or will it be $90?

the regan administration made a deal with saudi arabia to flood the market with cheap abundant crude (and we all know why) and the result was $10 - $20 a barrel until about 2002 - 2003. it wasn't pretty but oil companies learned how to survive and make money at those prices. somewhere along the way, that demand driven by cheap oil out stripped the world's ability to find and produce more of it. when russia got it's o&g act together it was able to join a rising tide and a rising price. money was pouring in faster than anyone could spend it. by july 2008, oil and gas accounted for over 80% of russia's export revenue. but slash the cash coming in by 60% and guess what happens? russia's booming economy had little to do with it's ingenuity and its powers of innovation. it was the beneficiary of rising commodity prices like saudi arabia, kuwait or venezuela.

in reality, there is little russia can do but sit and wait for the commodity to go up in price. not to be cruel, but without high oil prices russia is very limited in its ability to control its own destiny. if europe ever gets it's act together and build the nabuco pipeline, russia's natural gas leverage over europe will dissipate faster than a fart in a windstorm. did you know that 80% of all the gas that flows to europe from russia through ukraine actually comes not from russia but from turkmenistan? get out your map and digest that for a minute - see any patterns? see any alternatives?

but i digress - sorry for the soapbox speech. lucky for russia, the oil price will rise soon. it has to. the world cannot break it's addiction to oil in time to avoid another price run up. futures contracts apply for only a fixed time and what self respecting commodities trader can resist jumping on a trend?

i suppose the other thing we can't know is, once oil prices go back up, how long will it take for that money to filter through the russian economy and get back into the hands of upwardly mobile consumers? with the government in control of russia's largest oil and gas producer and with a 65% tax on revenues of private companies like lukoil, my guess is that it will not take long at all.

how do you say government bailout in russian?

and, more important, how long will it take for p4p in russia (well, moscow anyhow) to hit new heights?

Jake993

02-02-09, 15:52

Here's an interesting one: if you wanted to bet on Russia recovering, would you buy the Russian stock market index or a generalised global commodity index?
That's a hell of a question. Any idea who trades in the Russian Stock Market? Is it individual investors or largely institutional investors?

Brian Moloney

02-02-09, 18:41

red - thanks for sharing the info from your cousin. i have always suspected something like that was going on but not being a wall street insider, i had no way to confirm what we were seeing. as a 25+ veteran of the oil industry, i can tell you without hesitation that i have (just about) seen it all. i have survived $10 a barrel and have been drunk with euphoria over $147. but once the glamor is scraped away, the fact remains that oil (and gas of course) is just a commodity business. and like all commodities is subject to speculation over future demand. $40 a barrel today is not any more "real" than $147 was last summer.

i'm just speculating on what the speculators will do (dangerous practice) but i think with so much less cash floating around looking for a place to go, oil speculation has fallen from fashion and once the current cheap oil contracts have run through the system, the price will follow real supply and demand for a while. and that's the part no one really knows. will it be $50 or will it be $90?

the regan administration made a deal with saudi arabia to flood the market with cheap abundant crude (and we all know why) and the result was $10 - $20 a barrel until about 2002 - 2003. it wasn't pretty but oil companies learned how to survive and make money at those prices. somewhere along the way, that demand driven by cheap oil out stripped the world's ability to find and produce more of it. when russia got it's o&g act together it was able to join a rising tide and a rising price. money was pouring in faster than anyone could spend it. by july 2008, oil and gas accounted for over 80% of russia's export revenue. but slash the cash coming in by 60% and guess what happens? russia's booming economy had little to do with it's ingenuity and its powers of innovation. it was the beneficiary of rising commodity prices like saudi arabia, kuwait or venezuela.

in reality, there is little russia can do but sit and wait for the commodity to go up in price. not to be cruel, but without high oil prices russia is very limited in its ability to control its own destiny. if europe ever gets it's act together and build the nabuco pipeline, russia's natural gas leverage over europe will dissipate faster than a fart in a windstorm. did you know that 80% of all the gas that flows to europe from russia through ukraine actually comes not from russia but from turkmenistan? get out your map and digest that for a minute - see any patterns? see any alternatives?

but i digress - sorry for the soapbox speech. lucky for russia, the oil price will rise soon. it has to. the world cannot break it's addiction to oil in time to avoid another price run up. futures contracts apply for only a fixed time and what self respecting commodities trader can resist jumping on a trend?

i suppose the other thing we can't know is, once oil prices go back up, how long will it take for that money to filter through the russian economy and get back into the hands of upwardly mobile consumers? with the government in control of russia's largest oil and gas producer and with a 65% tax on revenues of private companies like lukoil, my guess is that it will not take long at all.

how do you say government bailout in russian?

and, more important, how long will it take for p4p in russia (well, moscow anyhow) to hit new heights?
jake its thing call supply and demand. the world is on its knees. this depression or bad recession what ever you see it at. lay offs people losing there jobs. manufacturing plants shutting down. the world will wake up some day and quit buying us treasury notes (buy gold) the big 3 auto industry is collapsing no hope.. even the republicans can see this. they created all this mess. needless to say oil will go up in price eventually but not in the near distant future maybe in the next 12 to 18 months. i can see trade wars a comming. its going to be ugly and not very pretty in the next 2 years. goldman sachs says oil will hit as low as $25.00 us a barrel. i hope the jews on wall street are right about this. but we will survive good reading your reports about rossiya. as the old saying goes can any one spare a dime?? does any body want to buy soft wood lumber??/ hehehe as for now jake like the great gold rush back in the 1800s alberta is closing all new pojects in the tar sands. its not a rosey picture. yep times are tough in the land of oil in alberta. but dont worry oil is cheap but now the refineries are fucking the canadians. so if oil is $150.00 @barrel or $25.00@barrel canadians still get fuck. look what a gallon of gas costs in canada today. i watch cnbc stock market report via satelite here in moscow and arron burnett was just here 2 weeks ago always snickering on tv how corrupt russia is.. hahaha if you want to look at criminals just look around you arron its call wall street. what ever criminal activities that go on in rossiya is nothing compare to wall strret. who will ever trust again the stock market in new york??? i actually feel sorry for obama barrack the poor bastard has a hell of a job trying to fix what can not be fix. lets give another 20 billion dollars from tarp (tax payers money) to more wall street executives (bonuses) yeah that will help and more money to bank of america to help them in buying merril lynch hehehehe christ let bernie maddoff go free i say.. yeah rossiya has corruption this is true but they never bank rupted the world like wall strret. jake the reson oil prices are down is because of all the foreclosed homes in the usa no need to heat those homes. hehehehehe yes things will get worse before they get better. russian pussy is getting cheaper buy the day here in moscow. i ray gold man sachs is correct. hehehehe

Jake993

02-02-09, 18:58

Pussy getting cheaper by the day in Moscow? Drill baby, drill........

Say, on another note, I always end up in Moscow without finding a gym or a workout club. That's the (only) problem with an apartment vs a hotel. I am staying right at Pushkin Square - anyone know of a gym that will allow you to pay by the visit? I don't need anything elaborate. Just a treadmill or elliptical trainer or exercise bike.

Thanks.

Laoshu2

02-02-09, 20:24

Jake993

02-03-09, 15:37

PM me for a gym which u can use for a daily fee.

About 15 min to walk from pushkin square.
Many thanks for the information but I tried to PM you and apparently you are not receiving messages at this time. Is that intentional or by accident?

Pizdyets

02-03-09, 17:04

introduced some colleagues to hd this weekend. as infrequent travelers to my fair town, they had been to nf on prior trips and were (like everyone) disgusted by the high prices and generally greedy attitude of the wgs there. they far preferred the dodgy yet relaxed (dare i say "sticky"?) atmosphere of hd. after throwing back a few, i helped settle them in with girls of their liking (and backup choices, in case the negotiations went awry - which they usually do). after playing the gracious host, i headed home (more on that later). the next day i got a surprising story of what transpired after my departure. after making their picks, my hammered colleagues made their way out of the club only to find a couple hyper-aggressive taxi-mafia assholes ready to roll them. this wasn't even in the notoriously dangerous perexod - it was directly in front of the entrance! these fuckers have become positively brazen. after a bit of shouting, pocket rifling and shoving, my colleagues managed to escape unrep001hed. though they lost only a bit of dignity in the whole process, others might not fare as well. remember:
* if you're the least bit ethnic, travel with a posse, especially at night
* if you're wasted (or planning to get that way), travel with a friend
* if you're alone at night, keep your wits about you and be suspicious of everyone
* if you're paying (and virtually nothing in this city is free), insist that everything is on your terms

i'll illustrate that last point with an example. when i left hd (solo), i walked thru the aforementioned perexod and found a long line of taxis in wait. i went to the first in line (a nice new passat), negotiated the rate, and got in. but before we were able to leave, the leader of the taxi mafia walked over and told my driver that he had dibs (at least that's what i got out of it - they weren't speaking russian of course). i reluctantly got out and walked over to find a total beater of a lada. i took a peek inside and surmised from the tattered vinyl upholstery and visibly exposed seat springs that a previous passenger must have had a pet tiger. i, in what i considered to be an incredibly generous gesture, offered him half the rate as mr. passat. he gave me this shocked look and insisted on the full rate at which point i said "tvoya mashina - govno, chuvak" (your car is shit, dude), turned on my heels and stepped back into the passat, saying "poexali" (let's ride). remember - you can't give these fuckers even an inch.

Stravinsky

02-03-09, 17:49

Remember:
* if you're the least bit ethnic, travel with a posse, especially at night
* if you're wasted (or planning to get that way), travel with a friend
* if you're alone at night, keep your wits about you and be suspicious of everyone
* if you're paying (and virtually nothing in this city is free), insist that everything is on your termsPizdyets,
You forgot one more piece of advice:

Stay away from Hot Dog's, it's nothing but trouble.

Pizdyets

02-03-09, 18:48

Pizdyets,
You forgot one more piece of advice:

Stay away from Hot Dog's, it's nothing but trouble.

LOL! Yeah, I suppose you're right, Strav, but there's sadly no place other than NF that fills that ho-bar niche here in Moscow.

Roger Mellie

02-03-09, 19:38

That's a hell of a question. Any idea who trades in the Russian Stock Market? Is it individual investors or largely institutional investors?
As far as foreign investment in the Russian market?? Institutional Investors primarily. Everything from hedge funds (short term money) to Russia specific investment funds like Hermitage (longer term money).

There are very few private foreign investors in the Russian market. Most investors who want Russia exposure will go thru someone like Hermitage or other asset managers like State Street's emerging markets funds (which are run under the name of Rexiter Capital).

Most of the money in the Russian stock exchange was Russian tho - and a lot of that was private money. Thus, the biggest losers of the stock market collapse have been the Russian billionaires.

- - -

Your argument that Russia's long term boom is assured because of the inherent value of raw materials in the ground .... (etc)
listening to the amateur Russian economic analysis from an young I.T. guy in London like you ASH is a bit like having to listen to a 7 year old boy want to play "who's got the biggest dick".

With all due respect Ash (and you have to question how much that is) what can you possibly know about Russias economic prospects? I dont want to have a debate with you about it, because its a waste of time ... you dont know what you are talking about.

Dont try and talk to me about multi million pound houses in London or Russias economy. Thats just ridiculous. You are clearly not familiar with either.

Also I can assure you that no graduate trainee in any sector has ever, or ever will (in today's money) earn 100k $ ..... right here in central London, where we've had multimillion pound properties for far longer than Moscow
Let me open your ignorant eyes Ash ... I will tell you that for the last decade, the investment banks were regularly paying up to GBP 60-70k for graduates ... yes right here in central london ... Which for most of the last decade was well over $100k ... In fact in some years it was almost $150k for graduates ... right here in downtown central London in front of your very eyes.

I could go on, but its not what the forum is for.

Put your dick back in your pants and talk about stuff you do know about. Its meant to be about getting laid. Focus on that mate.

Stravinsky

02-03-09, 20:03

I could go on, but its not what the forum is for.Right on there, Rodg, this forum is beginning to look like the ISG edition of the Financial Times.

Stravinsky

02-03-09, 20:08

but there's sadly no place other than NF that fills that ho-bar niche here in Moscow.Really? Is that true? Whadda ya think guys?

When it comes to Секс в Вольшом Городе (Sex in the City), are Hot Dog's and Night Flight the only places in town to pick up ho's?

Ash1001

02-03-09, 20:21

I deal with Russian financial markets and trade with Russian institutions all day long. I write and Russian economic commentaries regularly ..

I'd be curious to read one of these commentaries. Did you, perchance, predict the near complete collapse of the Russian stock market last year? No, thought not, since most of your 'analysis' consists of presenting the idea that the Russian economy is wonderful in various different forms.

In my 15 years or so as an IT consultant developing derivative trading systems I often found myself sitting in the dealing room in the vicinity of these analyst and sales guys. HIGHLY amusing, I must say. They had developed total mastery in the art of presenting pig ignorance as 'expertise'. Still, got to thank them for the laughs they provided; made my time spent debugging go that much faster :)

Try reading Geraint Anderson's 'Cityboy' sometime (for an idea of what really might be going on).

BTW, my own portfolio made 52% between 01 Jan and 31 Dec 08. Bet you'd like to know how - not that you'd ever admit to it. Talking about markets is so much easier than trading them :)

Okay, NOW we can put an end to this.

Jake993

02-03-09, 20:24

Really? Is that true? Whadda ya think guys?

When it comes to Секс в Вольшом Городе (Sex in the City), are Hot Dog's and Night Flight the only places in town to pick up ho's? While they are certainly not the ONLY places, I think they are certainly the two places that you can pretty much be ASSURED to find working girls just about any night.

What we probably need to do is commission a project to compile a list of other KNOWN locations where WG can be found.

Ash1001

02-03-09, 20:49

Certainly in Kiev you can find amateur p4p in the most unlikely places. Usually, the less known a bar or club is for hos the better and more amateur the experience will be.

Not sure if this holds for Moscow or not.

I assume you want to avoid the hard core pros at NF/HD?

Doctor_Skank

02-03-09, 20:51

While they are certainly not the ONLY places, I think they are certainly the two places that you can pretty much be ASSURED to find working girls just about any night.

What we probably need to do is commission a project to compile a list of other KNOWN locations where WG can be found.They are the only "pure" pickup bars and certainly the only expat friendly ones. There are hos in almost every disco but just harder to recongnize, because a lot of Russian girls dress like hos, bless their souls.

So essentially, yes. Those are the only places. Everything else, agencies, tochkas, internet, strip clubs, salons etc. is available, but not a pickup bar. The pickup bar is still the ultimate form of mongering, I'm surprised there aren't more in existence.

One place I heard about is Solaris in the Cosmos hotel. Anybody try it?

Hecker

02-03-09, 21:25

Of course everything in Russia and Ukraine was a bubble. Because wages are determined by the extent of invested capital. (average wages). And the invested capital in Russia and Ukraine was much lower than that of Germany, so wages could not be higher in the latter.

If you pay 80$ per day for a soviet built hotel in Kiev, this is not the normal price you should pay. Because in Germany the same hotel would not exist due to lack of standards and if it existed it would cost no more than 10$ per day.

So it was a bubble driven by speculation and when the whole thing collapsed the prices are turning to balance in their natural range.

The deflated price of the hotel in euros seems now more natural than it was before.

As far as pussy concerns, my preference goes always to deflated pussy which has a far more stable value than dollar or euro.

Stravinsky

02-03-09, 21:37

...and certainly the only expat friendly ones.Interesting perspective, Doc.

The bartenders drug you, the girls gyp you and the taxi drivers assault you.

Geez, what do they do to people they don't like? :)

Doctor_Skank

02-03-09, 21:42

Interesting perspective, Doc.

The bartenders drug you, the girls gyp you and the taxi drivers assault you.

Geez, what do they do to people they don't like? :)Molodets Strav! A VERY good point.

Ash1001

02-03-09, 21:53

Geez, what do they do to people they don't like? :)

Err.. marry them?

Jake993

02-03-09, 22:22

One place I heard about is Solaris in the Cosmos hotel. Anybody try it?Strangely enough, I did go there once on my first trip to Moscow. I was staying at the Sovietsky Hotel and the Russian guy I was having dinner with thought I might enjoy it. Being my first introduction to P4P in Russia, I REALLY wondered about all that I had heard about Russia. We spent about 40 minutes looking at girls wearing make-up that looked like it had been applied with a cement - trowel. Yeeeesh - I'm getting the shivers just thinking about it.

Two nights later, some German guys took me to Night Flight and I must say that I pretty much forgot about my experience at Cosmos until just now!!!!!

Jake993

02-03-09, 22:31

There are hos in almost every disco but just harder to recongnize, because a lot of Russian girls dress like hos, bless their souls.
I suppose - but that could be a whole new form of mongering. We could get a few guys together, go down to the local disco and play "Ho" / "Not a Ho". Cripes, I could see that as a game show on TV in Russia.

Roger Mellie

02-03-09, 23:16

why listening to ... you ASH is a bit like having to listen to a 7 year old boy want to play "who's got the biggest dick".

BTW, my own portfolio made 52% between 01 Jan and 31 Dec 08. Bet you'd like to know how.
hahahaha .... I rest my case ...

I'd be curious to read one of these commentaries.
I would be curious to see you post some pictures of women in Moscow. Do you ever add value and post pictures, or just shoot your mouth off? Please, for all our sakes, add some value. Tell us about some cool place in Moscow you have been that no-one else on the forum has been ... or post some pics of a girl that you have poked and no-one else on the forum has poked .... something ... anything.

You have 300 odd posts ... let me know if ANY of them have any fotos or describe somewhere new that you have been before anyone else ... something new that you have discovered. Cause thats what we are here for ... right? Pictures and info ... thats where the value is my friend.

I have never seen anyone jabber on like an teenage schoolgirl so much, and add so little value.

Ash1001

02-03-09, 23:48

.. hahahaha .... I rest my case ... Actually I was probably being generous to say 7 ..

A rather well developed 7 year old, wouldn't you say, as later on you liken me to a teenage girl? And obviously you find the idea of actually *making* money hilarious. Scribblers (sorry 'commentators') can only wax lyrical about markets, economies, whatever.. don't worry, there'll always be tons of work for you out there.

I would be curious to see you post some pictures of women in Moscow. Do you ever add value and post pictures, or just shoot your mouth off? Please, for all our sakes, add some value. Tell us about some place you have been that no-one else on the forum has been ... or post some pics of a girl that you have poked and no-one else on the forum has poked .... something ... anything.

You have 300 odd posts ... let me know if ANY of them have any fotos or describe somewhere new that you have been before anyone else ... something new that you have discovered. Cause thats what we are here for ... right?
.

Okay, that's a fair point. But I'm certainly not in the minority by not posting pictures for other members' masturbatory pleasure. Only a small number of you actually do so with any regularity, and if that's your thing, fine.

I've only ever made one trip to Moscow and posted quite a detailed report about it. I'll give you the pleasure of searching for it. I spend far more time in Kiev and post reports (which may or may not be useful in your opinion) as required.

You are seriously barking up the wrong tree if you think this forum is for posting endless lists of prices, photos, locations and scores out of 10. A fundamental component of mongering/freebie chasing is the political and economic milieu of the nation concerned. Take a look at the majority of posts on this site - most people want to know what's really going on, not whether my $250 girl had bigger tits than your $300 one. A bit of repartee is going to be a feature of any site like this - get used to it.

PS I know this is from 2007 but I think it's a great example of report writing:
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=770&page=107&pp=15

Roger Mellie

02-04-09, 07:10

So let me get this right .. you debug software in London and you have been to Moscow ... once???

And yet you purport to be a font of knowledge on the Russian economy. I love it.

You have posted 1 report on Moscow (2 years ago), and zero pictures. Your only report consisted of trips to Night Flight, CF, and Parizhskaya Zhizn ... basically regurgitated information. There's nothing new in there that hasnt been posted by 100 other guys, is there Ash? I have read that same trip report 100 times by 100 different mongers over the years. So where's the real value? Where's the real contribution to the board?

And to top it all off, you have the gall to try and tell me what posting on the board is really all about ??? As if you are some sort of benchmark?? Thanks for the tips friendo, but I have been on this board a lot longer than you have, so I am pretty familiar with the format, and pretty familiar with who and what adds value.

(1) expats like Pizdets - the expats on the ground in Moscow inherently offer value for their thoughts.
(2) freebie players like Skank - guys who have been to Moscow a load of times and banged a lot of freebies
(3) p4p players like Bez - guys who have been truckloads of times and banged a truckload of p4p dyevs
(4) locals - people like HelenaMoscow ... agree with her or not, I want to know what she is thinking about some things.
(5) OBRs - overseas born russians, for their ability to understand the Russian mind and juxtapose it with the western.
(6) explorers - even if its a first timer - anyone who goes somewhere new or discovers something new
(7) photo posters - We all like seeing pics of dyevs.

You dont have to agree with the opinions of those types above, but they all add value to the forum. I dont always agree with what they say, but I respect their opinions. They have earned that respect by adding value. For my money, its always worth hearing what they have to say. You dont fit into any of the above groups. You dont add value.

And if you dont add value, the very least you should do is learn a little humility.

Dont talk the talk unless you walk the walk. I have nothing against opinionated people - as long as they actually know what they are talking about and walk the walk. You are an self proclaimed expert on everything with absolutely nothing to back it up. A total waste of a login.

I cant believe it ... been to Moscow once. All that lip, attitude and opinion, and you have been to Moscow just once ... I shake my head.

Pizdyets

02-04-09, 11:14

I suppose - but that could be a whole new form of mongering. We could get a few guys together, go down to the local disco and play "Ho" / "Not a Ho". Cripes, I could see that as a game show on TV in Russia.

You just described my typical Saturday night. :)

Seriously, as a couple of you have already said, WGs are everywhere - clubs, bars, restaurants, even cafes. And with years of living here, I can differentiate a WG from a regular girl 99% of the time in about a second. That does not mean that I can transfer that skill to visiting colleagues, not to mention instill them with the confidence to approach. It took me 15 minutes to convince my friend that the object of his attraction at HD was actually working and that the kalyanchik was NOT, in fact, "with her".

Furthermore, the density of WGs in standard clubs is relatively low. You go to a demokratichny club, even on a Friday night, and I'm guessing the WG density is typically under 10%. Semipro density probably higher, but I read that Russian geneticists have recently determined from DNA analysis that semipros are actually a subspecies of the "regular girl", as opposed to WGs who are a distinctly separate species. And on a schoolnight... well, it's hard to find anything to fuck - WG or not. Which is why such places as NF/HD, despite their numerous flaws, continue to exist. They are The Sure Thing (TM). With few exceptions, any ne russky gororyashy nitwit can chat up and then fuck a reasonably attractive dyev any night of the week, assuming his wallet is sufficiently stuffed.

Solntsa Yada

02-04-09, 11:38

I suppose. But that could be a whole new form of mongering. We could get a few guys together, go down to the local disco and play "Ho" / "Not a Ho". Cripes, I could see that as a game show on TV in Russia.So, Chatting to a friend on ICQ while reading this post, I asked him, . What did he think. He's drawing up a synapsis for his boss, producer at 2x2, . Question is. How many foreigners will volunteer to be in the episodes, because he's convinced it would only work if we could get at least 1 Inostranetz per episode, thats 24 westerners minimum.

Any Takers?

I'm actually curious about other places to take visiting travellers, So I'd be in for a nightclub run. A friend of mine from Maine and myself, took a month to scope out places, 3 clubs a night, 3 nights a week, we got to see some dives and some party holes, some places that looked positively seedy enough for WG's but nothing concrete. Would be more than willing to do another run, around April/May when it starts to get warm, and the dyevs are thawing out with a few drinks.

Pizdyets

02-04-09, 13:04

The pickup bar is still the ultimate form of mongering, I'm surprised there aren't more in existence.

Costs are high, since they must pay off militsia to stay in business. Though I have no proof, I suspect there are other barriers to entry as well. Namely thick necked guys who work exclusively in cash, have no last names and wouldn't hesitate for a second to squeeze two slugs of lead into the base of your skull as you were coding into your podyezd.

One place I heard about is Solaris in the Cosmos hotel. Anybody try it?

It's a low-end strip joint - no more. If there's talent to be found in Kosmos, it's in the lobby. But to partake, you need to actually stay... at Kosmos. And unless you're a misguided romantic, waxing nostalgic about Soviet times of yore after watching "Moscow does not Believe in Tears" twenty seven times, trust me... you will not want to stay at Kosmos.

LifeSavour

02-04-09, 15:07

So let me get this right. You debug software in London and you have been to Moscow. Once?

And yet you purport to be a font of knowledge on the Russian economy. I love it. I can't believe it. Been to Moscow once. All that lip, attitude and opinion, and you have been to Moscow just once. I shake my head.Come on 'girls'. Lets ALL get along!

Fijiman

02-04-09, 15:41

Regarding the costs the girls face, a girl I picked up at Magrib in Piter told me she pays 1000 rubles to someone (the bar? Militsia?) plus also she has to pay the regular entry fee of 3-500 rubles to Magrib.

Ash1001

02-04-09, 17:31

(6) explorers - even if its a first timer - anyone who goes somewhere new or discovers something new

Spot on. I'm probably the first ISG member to have used and/or written in detail about Raphael's services at Dream Moscow Nights. That's definitely contributing something new.

Perhaps you could have read the report a little more carefully. And btw being a sexpat in Moscow doesn't make YOU an expert on the Russian economy - in actual fact it just reveals your inherent bias.

And you still seem more interested in my debugging (which was a joke) than how to make serious returns from the markets (which isn't). But, yes, I think it's time we both returned to what this forum is really for - whatever your interpretation of that may be.

Jake993

02-05-09, 04:01

PM me for a gym which u can use for a daily fee.

About 15 min to walk from pushkin square.Lao Buddy - your mailbox is full or you are not receiving PM's. Would still like to get the info
on the gym that allows daily pay.
Thanks
Jake

Laoshu2

02-05-09, 08:25

Lao Buddy - your mailbox is full or you are not receiving PM's. Would still like to get the info on the gym that allows daily pay.

Thanks,

JakeI dont get the messages.

I guess need to sign up.

Sorry.

I will try to do asap.

Maglock

02-06-09, 07:52

Each one of us has our own reasons for joining the military. Blackwater, now I am just being greedy $$$. I am glad I joined the service. I manage to travel all over the globe but never had to deal with the language barrier till now. Like any well planed individual it is better to be well prepared than getting lost in an unknown country and get taken advantage off.

The language barrier is a pain not like Brazil, Thailand, Prague, Germany, or Amsterdam where you know the Red light district. Asking a taxi to take you the best brothel was like pulling teeth maybe is my age I look to dam young loll. Sarcasm I am used too but thanks for the information I have a driver picking me up, apartment set up and tickets to travel to Yaroslavl. With all the information I see you guys posting, beaver will be found. I just hope the girls love pictures so I can post them for you horny guys and including me to see loll.

Sir, yessir! I just knew you was a crew cut grunt!
Hoo RAH!!

Thank god for every day in the corps.

And thank you for protecting my sorry ass, and my freedom, to pick my feet and chew redman. This country's full of wankers and profilers, and you sir, are something we all can be proud of. We salute you!

GET SOME, MARINE!!

But don't frag my cherry ass, I'm just another FNG in the DMZ, looking for VC in a hot LZ. What's troubling you is the nature of my game.

And in all fairness, I have not more experience than you do, only active imagination and too many agent orange flashbacks and bad blotter trips.

Semper fi.

Doctor_Skank

02-10-09, 14:35

i was sipping gin tonics in the sky bar (park hyatt ararat) which is still one of my favorite places to sip gin tonics, although the costs are prohibitive to sipping more than one or two.

anyway, i was pleasantly surprised to see a veritable onslaught of very high-end birds come in while i sat with regrettably male colleagues. the girls looked like pros as they were either alone or in groups of two and sitting at tables in prominent "inviting" areas.

these girls were really hot... all of them about 175cm, 52kg max, pencil-thin legs, expensive salon hair, clingy cocktail dresses, immaculate makeup. either there was a mary kay convention in the hotel or these girls were on the take. there were about 6 total, rep001tered around at various couches and tables. one of them was even a '10', that lofty number i give maybe twice a year.

anybody ever picked up a girl there? i'm sure you'd have to be an oligarch to pay the prices, but some of you guys are oligarchs, right?

Pizdyets

02-10-09, 14:59

Anybody ever picked up a girl there? I'm sure you'd have to be an oligarch to pay the prices, but some of you guys are oligarchs, right?

They've been around as long as the Ararat has been (~6 years).

My info is a little dated (almost a year old), but a (good looking) colleague was able to negotiate a true hottie down to $400 for 4 hours (3-7am). I'd guess you'd be able to get one for $200/hour at prime-time, less off-peak. I'm not very experienced in hotel girls, as they usually like to focus on ST and are loathe to leave the hotel.

Doctor_Skank

02-10-09, 15:03

They've been around as long as the Ararat has been (~6 years).

My info is a little dated (almost a year old), but a (good looking) colleague was able to negotiate a true hottie down to $400 for 4 hours (3-7am). I'd guess you'd be able to get one for $200/hour at prime-time, less off-peak. I'm not very experienced in hotel girls, as they usually like to focus on ST and are loathe to leave the hotel.I never noticed them before, although I guess it is logical that they were always there. And no, they didn't look like they were going to leave the hotel... certainly not to walk through the slush and climb into a junky taxi. They were very much S-class girls. I'd guesstimate they were wearing at least $5000 in clothes and jewelry each... so perhaps business was good. Having an Armenian boyfriend or two (guys who run the hotel and much of the hotel clientel) probably doesn't hurt either. :)

Pizdyets

02-10-09, 16:57

I'd guesstimate they were wearing at least $5000 in clothes and jewelry each... so perhaps business was good.

On a related note of high-end talent, was in NF the other night taking some partners on a sightseeing tour. Initial quotes were in the 1000 to 1500 range for LT. Yes, I'm talking good ole US dollars. Astonishingly, some guys were in fact leaving with girls, but I have no idea what the terms were. Would be interesting to know. Frankly, I cannot think of a single woman (pornstar, Hollywood actress, famous gymnast or figure skater) whom I would pay that kind of money to fuck. It boggles my mind.

As for the crisis, I was chatting about it with a pro I've known for a while. Though we'd hit the sack once in the past (after way too many cocktails), we're mainly just friends and she's always a great source of info. She said that the crisis hasn't really affected her much -- she's turning the same number of tricks (1-2 per week) and insists on a rate in USD ($350-400 for LT).

Doctor_Skank

02-10-09, 17:33

On a related note of high-end talent, was in NF the other night taking some partners on a sightseeing tour. Initial quotes were in the 1000 to 1500 range for LT. Yes, I'm talking good ole US dollars. Astonishingly, some guys were in fact leaving with girls, but I have no idea what the terms were. Would be interesting to know. Frankly, I cannot think of a single woman (pornstar, Hollywood actress, famous gymnast or figure skater) whom I would pay that kind of money to fuck. It boggles my mind.

As for the crisis, I was chatting about it with a pro I've known for a while. Though we'd hit the sack once in the past (after way too many cocktails), we're mainly just friends and she's always a great source of info. She said that the crisis hasn't really affected her much -- she's turning the same number of tricks (1-2 per week) and insists on a rate in USD ($350-400 for LT).Interesting. What kind of clientel is she getting, local or western?

Pizdyets

02-10-09, 17:56

Interesting. What kind of clientele is she getting, local or western?

Foreign visitors. Almost exclusively. I didn't ask her yet about the split between regulars and first-timers, but I'm guessing alot of her business is repeat. She's a great conversationalist, an honest girl, and just plain cool. Put that together with a killer bod, and it's a winning combo.

Doctor_Skank

02-10-09, 18:30

Foreign visitors. Almost exclusively. I didn't ask her yet about the split between regulars and first-timers, but I'm guessing alot of her business is repeat. She's a great conversationalist, an honest girl, and just plain cool. Put that together with a killer bod, and it's a winning combo.Those kind of girls do get addictive, especially if they can suck the chrome off a bumper. Something about good oral skills that makes a girl irresistable.

Got this girl in St.Pete I more or less hate, but my god she can suck cock. She's a freebie, but I still spend more time and money on her than I want to, but my god can she suck cock. She knows every trick... gobs of saliva, looks you in the eye, brushes her hair out of her face so you can watch the action, slurps and sucks loudly, gulping it all down and beating herself with the rod aftwerwards. And that after playing innocent all day. Hot as bricks, 24-yr old brunette with firm tits, skinny legs and a 50kg frame and can't find a husband. But my god can she suck cock. Born for porn, maybe she ought to give that a try.

Ho-ness:
Business must be down overall, or was NF drawing a decent crowd? Maybe NF is crisis-proof since it is the one and only address for many sexpats on expense accounts.

AColonizer

02-10-09, 22:07

Yes, I agree with you. But are mamba girls and salons a good price/quality solution? I got hundres phone numbers of 2500 rubles girls and I can't believe thay are all frauds. The only good flirt.ua.com girl, that I found in Kiev, dealt on-line like moslove.com girls.

Those kind of girls do get addictive, especially if they can suck the chrome off a bumper. Something about good oral skills that makes a girl irresistable.

Got this girl in St.Pete I more or less hate, but my god she can suck cock. She's a freebie, but I still spend more time and money on her than I want to, but my god can she suck cock. She knows every trick... gobs of saliva, looks you in the eye, brushes her hair out of her face so you can watch the action, slurps and sucks loudly, gulping it all down and beating herself with the rod aftwerwards. And that after playing innocent all day. Hot as bricks, 24-yr old brunette with firm tits, skinny legs and a 50kg frame and can't find a husband. But my god can she suck cock. Born for porn, maybe she ought to give that a try.

Ho-ness:
Business must be down overall, or was NF drawing a decent crowd? Maybe NF is crisis-proof since it is the one and only address for many sexpats on expense accounts.

Stravinsky

02-10-09, 23:08

Astonishingly, some guys were in fact leaving with girls, but I have no idea what the terms were. Would be interesting to know. Frankly, I cannot think of a single woman (pornstar, Hollywood actress, famous gymnast or figure skater) whom I would pay that kind of money to fuck. It boggles my mind.The prices don't surprise me, and it's good to hear that the dyeffki are back to quoting Dollar prices. What would be interesting to know is... what kind of service did your partners get? Was it really LT? Or did they get the ol' bait-n-switch?

As for the crisis, I was chatting about it with a pro I've known for a while. Though we'd hit the sack once in the past (after way too many cocktails), we're mainly just friends and she's always a great source of info. She said that the crisis hasn't really affected her much -- she's turning the same number of tricks (1-2 per week) and insists on a rate in USD ($350-400 for LT).Are you talking about our mutual acquaintance?? Seems like she is also quoting in Dollars again.

Pizdyets

02-11-09, 11:06

The prices don't surprise me, and it's good to hear that the dyeffki are back to quoting Dollar prices. What would be interesting to know is... what kind of service did your partners get? Was it really LT? Or did they get the ol' bait-n-switch?

My partners aren't insane either, so they just laughed it off and headed to HotDog (thankfully without me), where they hooked up with a couple of "perfect body" hotties for $350 LT (each, of course). Service, they said, was only so-so (no kissing, no GFE).

Are you talking about our mutual acquaintance?? Seems like she is also quoting in Dollars again.

Yes, I'm talking about our mutual acquaintance. And $350 was always her "sweet spot" whether in rubles or dollars. Even with that, she's probably netting only $1500-$2000 per month (operational costs being taxis, club cover and drinks). Still, that ain't bad for working only 3 nights a week.

Pizdyets

02-11-09, 11:27

Those kind of girls do get addictive, especially if they can suck the chrome off a bumper. Something about good oral skills that makes a girl irresistable.

Yeah, I have a freebie who gives me the same type of abuse punctuated with mind blowing BJs. She'll throw a tantrum for no reason when we're out with friends. Or no-show on a date, telling me that she decided to get fucked up with her friends instead. Or show up 2 hours late, then tell me she has to have dinner with another guy in an hour. But damn... absolutely no gag reflex. None at all. She'll take it all, pull the hair out her face, look me in the eye and smile as best as she can with her (thankfully upturned) nose pressed against my pubic bone. And she simply loves sex. Never gets tired of it. Even after I've shot two loads down her throat, she'll dumurely ask "You think you can get hard again if I lick your balls? I still want you to fuck my ass." To put icing on the cake, she dropped 6kg in the past year and now has the body of a gymnast. Too bad she's such a flake.

Ho-ness:
Business must be down overall, or was NF drawing a decent crowd? Maybe NF is crisis-proof since it is the one and only address for many sexpats on expense accounts.

NF was quite full with guys and girls alike. Without a doubt, it is the go-to place in Moscow where you are guaranteed of finding hotties willing to fuck just about anyone, as long as the price is right.

Ash1001

02-11-09, 12:20

Yes, I'm talking about our mutual acquaintance. And $350 was always her "sweet spot" whether in rubles or dollars. Even with that, she's probably netting only $1500-$2000 per month (operational costs being taxis, club cover and drinks). Still, that ain't bad for working only 3 nights a week.

Just curious, what's stopping a girl like this from finding a sponsor and having a much easier life? Or is she too westernised for the local Russian elite?

Pizdyets

02-11-09, 15:18

Just curious, what's stopping a girl like this from finding a sponsor and having a much easier life? Or is she too westernised for the local Russian elite?

Who wants to hang with the local Russian elite? Not me, for sure. And if she were looking for a sponsor, I'm pretty sure it'd be a foreign one. She even insists that I speak English with her so that she can improve.

Doctor_Skank

02-11-09, 17:37

AColonizer

02-11-09, 19:06

Yes, I know most "pink framed" girls in mamba sites are salons or agencies or mamashkas.

Firstly, I see a big difference in quantity and services in replies, between Kiev and Moscow. I hope this is a real difference.

Secondly, they are about 75% of prostitutes in mamba sites, therefore it is sure a lot of men have used them. I think salons and tochkas have the best quality/price rate, I mean we could find 9s or 10s for cheap money.

So I beg reports about experiences in salons from everybody. Do salons lie and rip-off customers? Do salons provide services promised in messages? Which are the salons? And about tochkas, which streets and how we can find tochkas in Moscow?

Please, don't talk about Russian reports by Russian men in Russian sites because they are often unreliable.

Pizdyets

02-12-09, 13:15

So I beg reports about experiences in salons from everybody. Do salons lie and rip-off customers? Do salons provide services promised in messages? Which are the salons? And about tochkas, which streets and how we can find tochkas in Moscow?

Please, don't talk about Russian reports by Russian men in Russian sites because they are often unreliable.

Unreliable? By what do you base this? I've found sextalk reviews to be quite "on the money" with the salons I've visited. And as I've said before, the traffic on sextalk is many times that of what we have here, on our beloved ISG forum. Can't even remember the last salon review posted here... might have even been mine, or someone I dragged along for the ride.

AColonizer

02-12-09, 15:55

Please:

Do salons lie and rip-off customers? Do salons provide services promised in messages? Which are the salons? And about tochkas, which streets and how we can find tochkas in Moscow?

Doctor_Skank

02-12-09, 19:31

I mean we could find 9s or 10s for cheap money.
You won't find 9s and 10s for cheap money anywhere and quite frankly, you'd be hard-pressed to find 9s and 10s for big money. They are pretty rare. I've only seen a few I'd give 9 or 10 to and even fewer I've actually fucked to confirm their 9 or 10 status. There is nothing wrong with searching for the best available, so I follow you there.

Personally I think you'll find better quality in salons than tochkas. Tochka girls are rarely above 7 IMO, the only advantage with them being that they are there for the whole night (if you even want that) and that they generally let you do just about anything you want to them. Take that last statement for what it is worth. It isn't all positive if you know what I mean. That said, I haven't tochka'ed in a couple of years so I don't know what today's scene is like so my info isn't current. Nothing would lead me to believe that the quality has gone up however. The best tochka girls used to be Ukrainian and Moldovan and they were reduced in numbers a couple years back by new legislation.

Strav is right though... make plans and do research, but it isn't like ordering from a menu. Things will always be different than you expect... sometimes better, sometimes worse.

Pizdyets is right as well... sextalk.ru (the Russian guys' forum) contains much more info than this one on all aspects of the pro game.

AColonizer

02-12-09, 20:03

Oh my god, you're right, in Italy that's the same, since the same new law, Ukrainians and Russians have disappeared, and maybe I met one of the nicest and sex-extremest tochkas, near Venice, maybe one of the last real tochka (the ultimate tochka?), therefore I have always great expectations.

However, which are the streets you went some years ago? Also by PM.

You won't find 9s and 10s for cheap money anywhere and quite frankly, you'd be hard-pressed to find 9s and 10s for big money. They are pretty rare. I've only seen a few I'd give 9 or 10 to and even fewer I've actually fucked to confirm their 9 or 10 status. There is nothing wrong with searching for the best available, so I follow you there.

Personally I think you'll find better quality in salons than tochkas. Tochka girls are rarely above 7 IMO, the only advantage with them being that they are there for the whole night (if you even want that) and that they generally let you do just about anything you want to them. Take that last statement for what it is worth. It isn't all positive if you know what I mean. That said, I haven't tochka'ed in a couple of years so I don't know what today's scene is like so my info isn't current. Nothing would lead me to believe that the quality has gone up however. The best tochka girls used to be Ukrainian and Moldovan and they were reduced in numbers a couple years back by new legislation.

Strav is right though... make plans and do research, but it isn't like ordering from a menu. Things will always be different than you expect... sometimes better, sometimes worse.

Pizdyets is right as well... sextalk.ru (the Russian guys' forum) contains much more info than this one on all aspects of the pro game.

Doctor_Skank

02-12-09, 21:44

Pizdyets

02-13-09, 09:47

Leninsky Prospekt, Leningradsky Prospekt, Mira Prospekt... sometimes even in the center near Chisty Prudy. There were tochkas on side streets I've since forgotten the name of.

Thing is, tochkas are mobile, meaning they weren't always in the same place. And these Prospekt "streets" I mention are more like highways through town, sometimes 20-30km long.

The best way to find them IMO is to ask one of the asshole taxi drivers to look for one for you. They usually have the best idea where... and even they have to search for a while sometimes.

Yaroslavskoe Shosse is a big hunting ground too. I'm not big on tochki in general, but hit several there with partners looking to score (and by and large, they were satisfied with their girls though I thought they were overpriced).

You will need to find a taxi driver who knows the scene. You can do this by holding your hand out and taking chances, or going with a member of the taxi mafia outside major clubs. If you're alone, I'd actual suggest the former as you'll be less likely to be rolled (ie ripped off). They will drive to a particular avenue on the outskirts of Moscow and start searching for "lookout girls". The girls will then direct your driver to the tochka. It's often behind a warehouse, on the edge of some woods, in an abandoned parking lot... I even saw a lineup up at a truck stop! And you will need to pay your taxi driver. The nights I went out, we usually hit 3-4 tochki in a 90 minute period (including roundtrip from downtown). That translated to an average of 1500 rubles, including a bonus for avoiding militsia. I probably could have negotiated less, but I wasn't paying...

I'm probably repeating what's been written in this forum a dozen times, so will stop now and let you just RTFF...

Mallo

02-14-09, 11:32

AColonizer

02-14-09, 13:37

Which are your experiences with www.putana.nu?

Are fake all profiles?

Mallo

02-14-09, 16:47

Pizdyets

02-14-09, 18:13

Hello,

I am going to Moscow in a few weeks, and will probably be staying at the Hotel Baltschug Kempinski.

* Does anyone know whether this hotel has working girls at the bar / lobby as I have seen in other Moscow hotels?

* Or, is it a stupid question, and do all Moscow hotel have these?

If the answer is no to both questions, can soeone suggests other Central Moscow hotels "working girls equipped"?

Thanks

Hotel girls are usually pretty expensive and focus on ST. Not all hotels will have them. For example, I've never seen them in any of the Marriotts here. But Hyatt, Sheraton, National, Ritz, Swissotel, Golden Ring (as well as most non-Western chain hotels) have them. Not sure about Baltschug - it's been a long time since I hung out in the lobby there. I usually meet guests at GQ bar next door...

Mallo

02-14-09, 18:29

Doctor_Skank

02-14-09, 21:26

Hotel girls are usually pretty expensive and focus on ST. Not all hotels will have them. For example, I've never seen them in any of the Marriotts here. But Hyatt, Sheraton, National, Ritz, Swissotel, Golden Ring (as well as most non-Western chain hotels) have them. Not sure about Baltschug - it's been a long time since I hung out in the lobby there. I usually meet guests at GQ bar next door...In addition to the hotels mentioned by Pizdyets I have seen or spoken to lobby girls in Peter 1 and Marriott Courtyard (in the bar there). I did however hear from someone that Marriott specifically forbid them because guests (mostly American women) had complained.

A thought: If you are willing to pay lobby girl prices and are staying in a 5-star hotel, why not just go to Night Flight? The price level will be the same, you'll have more to choose from and all 5-star hotels let you bring your ho back to your room.

Doctor_Skank

02-14-09, 21:28

Yaroslavskoe Shosse is a big hunting ground too. I'm not big on tochki in general, but hit several there with partners looking to score (and by and large, they were satisfied with their girls though I thought they were overpriced).
Yeah, I've been to that one too years back. Good to hear your mates were pleased with the girls. I've been meaning to go tochka again, but just never quite had the stars align correctly for it to happen.

Priamos

02-14-09, 22:34

In addition to the hotels mentioned by Pizdyets I have seen or spoken to lobby girls in Peter 1 and Marriott Courtyard (in the bar there). I did however hear from someone that Marriott specifically forbid them because guests (mostly American women) had complained.

Wouldn't you know it... only last night an American woman next to me in a Chinese restaurant almost tore the waiter apart with her teeth. His crime was to have served her a Mei Kwei Lu in on of the habitual glasses with a picture of a naked man on the bottom. "Take away this FILTH!!!", she bellowed. Several people tried to explain to her that this is totally normal here in Paris, but to no avail. She found it offensive and - therefore and for that reason - it was offensive. But getting back to the subject...

...Doctor, I'm not sure your rule holds without a fault: I stayed in the smallest Mariott last November (the Tverskaya) and it is true that they didn't have lobby girlS in plural, but they had one lobby girl. Most of the time she was sitting unobtrusively next to the cloak room so that visiting puritans might believe she was merely another hotel employee.

Doctor_Skank

02-14-09, 22:45

...Doctor, I'm not sure your rule holds without a fault: I stayed in the smallest Mariott last November (the Tverskaya) and it is true that they didn't have lobby girlS in plural, but they had one lobby girl. Most of the time she was sitting unobtrusively next to the cloak room so that visiting puritans might believe she was merely another hotel employee....I think it probably is an OFFICIAL rule but unofficially every guest in a Russian hotel expects that there will be some pros somewhere, even though this isn't always the case. It is probably the decision of the shift manager.

As I said, at the Marriott Courtyard I saw one just a couple weeks back in the Roadhouse bar there and in the past I've seen them in the Marriott Tverskaya as well as the Marriott Grand. The girls were very very low key however though.

Pizdyets

02-15-09, 08:01

A thought: If you are willing to pay lobby girl prices and are staying in a 5-star hotel, why not just go to Night Flight? The price level will be the same, you'll have more to choose from and all 5-star hotels let you bring your ho back to your room.

Thanks Doc - I was going to mention the same thing. But I have to admit there is a certain allure to picking up a girl in your hotel. It's the p4p variant of the minibar. You know you could find far better and cheaper booze, and the corner liquor store isn't far away, but after a long day's work, it's sometimes hard to muster the energy to even leave the hotel.

Doctor_Skank

02-15-09, 10:23

Thanks Doc - I was going to mention the same thing. But I have to admit there is a certain allure to picking up a girl in your hotel. It's the p4p variant of the minibar. You know you could find far better and cheaper booze, and the corner liquor store isn't far away, but after a long day's work, it's sometimes hard to muster the energy to even leave the hotel.True enough... especially in winter. On more than one occassion I've been in the hotel to just "lay down for an hour" before going out and didn't regain consciousness until morning, especially if I'd been primed with drinks at a business dinner.

Mallo

02-15-09, 11:50

A thought: If you are willing to pay lobby girl prices and are staying in a 5-star hotel, why not just go to Night Flight? The price level will be the same, you'll have more to choose from and all 5-star hotels let you bring your ho back to your room.Yes, it makes sense actually. I was only asking because the last time I was in MOscow, girls in hotels were way cheaper than in NF (150 $ / h)...

Either way, I tended to like the BoarHouse better than NF, can anyone tell me if it's still open, and still good ?

Thanks everyone for all your quick replies !

Doctor_Skank

02-16-09, 07:41

Yes, it makes sense actually. I was only asking because the last time I was in MOscow, girls in hotels were way cheaper than in NF (150 $ / h)...

Either way, I tended to like the BoarHouse better than NF, can anyone tell me if it's still open, and still good ?

Thanks everyone for all your quick replies !At the 5 star hotels you are looking at you can figure the girls charge roughly the same as the room rate. $400+. Varies according to the place and the girl, but it generally isn't cheap.

BoarHouse was renamed Hot Dog and is still open and still essentially the same, although if you haven't been to Moscow in a while do note that Hot Dog/Boarhouse is fairly expensive as well and in some cases even NF level in terms of price.

Rasman77

02-17-09, 16:14

Have any of you guys been on the hunt for tochkas lately? It seems like the militzia / omon finally managed to remove the tochkas from the scene. I went a few times during the last month, and it looks like nobody is working anymore, have any of you had the same experience?

It seems like the happy days in Moscow are over, it was less than a year ago that you could find dozens of tochkas even in the center of Moscow with 20-30-40 girls in one place, and if you were lucky they had just brought in a new young hottie from the province, and you could have her for her "first day on the job" those were the days.

Doctor_Skank

02-17-09, 21:22

It seems like the happy days in Moscow are over, it was less than a year ago that you could find dozens of tochkas even in the center of Moscow with 20-30-40 girls in one place, and if you were lucky they had just brought in a new young hottie from the province, and you could have her for her "first day on the job" those were the days.? Less than a year ago dozens of tochkas in the center of Moscow? What were you on man, and where can I get some?!

Pizdyets

02-18-09, 16:32

? Less than a year ago dozens of tochkas in the center of Moscow? What were you on man, and where can I get some?!

I'm with Doc on this one... I don't know of even one tochka which was operating in central Moscow (ie inside Garden Ring) a year ago.

Ricardo Cabro

02-18-09, 19:17

I'm with Doc on this one... I don't know of even one tochka which was operating in central Moscow (ie inside Garden Ring) a year ago.

Have to agree with Razmann77 on this. Last February I went to the Tochka under the subway (was mentioned back along in the forum). Not sure of the exact location but there were 60-80 girls and the place was very busy. From memory was 5000/7000/9000 rub. It was my one and only tochka visit!
RC

Doctor_Skank

02-18-09, 20:07

Have to agree with Razmann77 on this. Last February I went to the Tochka under the subway (was mentioned back along in the forum). Not sure of the exact location but there were 60-80 girls and the place was very busy. From memory was 5000/7000/9000 rub. It was my one and only tochka visit!
RCUnder the subway? Where?

It Travel

02-19-09, 12:59

? Less than a year ago dozens of tochkas in the center of Moscow? What were you on man, and where can I get some?!

As far as i know thre is no tocka in the center... and most of all there is no Metro "on the air"... It's only in a couple of bridges over the river and far far in the Outskits of the city... surely not inside the garden ring!!!

Just my two cents

IT

Rasman77

02-19-09, 14:26

In fact about a year ago there were several tochkas inside Moscow, on the Garden Ring, on Prospekt Mira and other places in the city. Just on the backside of Olympiskii Stadion there used to be a very big tochka with more than 50 girls, I have used it several times.

I also remember one time that the girls were standing not under the metro, but in one the pedestrian tunnels under the street, I don't remember exactly where, but somewhere in the center.

It is a fact that it was so, even in the center of Moscow not so long time ago, but after this the police chased the tochkas out of the center to Yaroslavskoe Choese and other places, but now it seems like the tochkas has completely disapeared from the scene.

Pizdyets

02-19-09, 16:31

As far as i know thre is no tocka in the center... and most of all there is no Metro "on the air"... It's only in a couple of bridges over the river and far far in the Outskits of the city... surely not inside the garden ring!!!

This discussion caused me to start reading the "tochka" thread on sextalk. Apparently there are lots of tochki literally *on* the Garden Ring (and many more on the outskirts as already discussed). Furthermore, the sex is dirt cheap (500 to 1500 rubles). But I'm guessing the girls (women?) you get at that price are pretty skanky (no offense, Doc). And those prices are apparently for sex in the car, or in the alley, not in the comfort of your own apartment.

Still, might warrant some investigation. :)

Doctor_Skank

02-19-09, 16:48

This discussion caused me to start reading the "tochka" thread on sextalk. Apparently there are lots of tochki literally *on* the Garden Ring (and many more on the outskirts as already discussed). Furthermore, the sex is dirt cheap (500 to 1500 rubles). But I'm guessing the girls (women?) you get at that price are pretty skanky (no offense, Doc). And those prices are apparently for sex in the car, or in the alley, not in the comfort of your own apartment.

Still, might warrant some investigation. :)I've read about them as well... they are usually quick blowjob type operations. There was some discussion about it on this forum about 2 years back. Really didn't sound like my type of fun though.

As for the "air metro" I can only think of those brief stretches where the metro goes above ground.

Garden Ring was the tochka stretch for some time, but inside the ring? In the center? I'd been to several right in the center (just off Tverskaya or near Lubyanka etc.) around 2003-2004.... but then they seemed to be pushed out.

In any case, interesting.

Pizdyets

02-19-09, 18:51

I've read about them as well... they are usually quick blowjob type operations. There was some discussion about it on this forum about 2 years back. Really didn't sound like my type of fun though.

Not just BJs, but FS too (it's usually twice as much, apparently). Lots of conversation on sextalk about a tochka in Ximki where apparently have 100 girls at times (this is from last month - not an old post). But it appears to be touch-n-go. Sometimes there, sometimes not.

Garden Ring was the tochka stretch for some time, but inside the ring? In the center? I'd been to several right in the center (just off Tverskaya or near Lubyanka etc.) around 2003-2004.... but then they seemed to be pushed out.

Ah, the notorious Lubyanka tochka! Yeah, haven't seen it in years... but those were the days!

Doctor_Skank

02-19-09, 19:28

Not just BJs, but FS too (it's usually twice as much, apparently). Lots of conversation on sextalk about a tochka in Ximki where apparently have 100 girls at times (this is from last month - not an old post). But it appears to be touch-n-go. Sometimes there, sometimes not.
Ximki is the nucleaus of all cheap sex. Maybe because it is out of Moscow city limits/other jurisdiction?

As for Lubyanka, it just felt great with the FSB watching. Picked up a very nice blonde there. Clean-faced good-spirited authentic Muscovite. Regrettably several years ago.

Stravinsky

02-19-09, 23:38

This discussion caused me to start reading the "tochka" thread on sextalk.
Molodyets P! What a wonderful find.

Here is the report from Sextalk.ru that Pizdyets refers to. This was written by a senior member and moderator of the site, so he speaks with considerable authority. I have translated it and posted it here, just in case anyone wants to try these out.

But, more importantly, it offers some perspective: there is much more to Moscow than just Night Flight and Hot Dog’s and not every guy in Moscow is an Oligarch. The majority of the local guys in Moscow are also looking to get value for their dyengi (money), just like most of us are.

Prices are in rubles (believe it or not). When you see a price combo 500/1000 or 1000/1500, the first price is for a BJ and the second is for sex (as Bill Clinton would define it). LOL

I have preserved the original Cyrillic street names, in case someone wants to look these up on a map. Transliterated street names are almost impossible to find.

Glossary:
Tochka – a point, in this context a specific physical location.
Tochki – plural of tochka

Dyeffka – a young woman of questionable moral character (dontcha just love ‘em!)
Dyeffki – plural of Dyeffka

Minyet – BJ

ул. – abbr. for street

All tochki I specify are along the line from Moscow, I didn't go on the other side.

1. On a site from the branch of “Старорублевского шоссе” Old Rublevsky shosse up to a bus stop at the corner of “ул. Алексея Свиридова” Alexeya Sviridova street. The dyeffki stand occasionally, prices - 1000/1500. Sometimes in this area there appears to be a mobile tochka with several cars containing dyeffki for the night.

2. On a site from the crossing of “Рублевским шоссе” Rublevskim shosse to “ул. Багрицкого” Bagritskovo street, 1000/1500, but you can easily talk them down to 600-700 for minyet. But they look terrible and are lazy.

3. The well-known tochka at “к/т Минск" Minsk. Despite the struggle against it – they continue their heroic work. In truth, primarily during the day and evening. True, recently the quantity of dyeffki has seriously decreased, and quantity of interested persons is on the rise. Sometimes from interested persons the line of cars forms. Once in this line a Maybach was observed. The current price level I do not know, as I do not love conveyor service, but several months ago the prices were 600/1000.

3а. With “Можайки” Mozhaiki we leave the “МКАД” MKAD [ring road around Moscow that defines the outer boundary of the city] to the side of “Новой Риги” New Riga. In 100 meters after junction, there is a small lot for vans. Occasionally, you can see dyeffki standing there, but I saw them only in the afternoon. Didn’t ask for prices.

If you have met nobody so far, further ahead on your way lies the MKAD.

4. It seemed for a long time that it had died, but recently the tochka has suddenly revived next to the second crossing/passageway - of "pipe" through Minka, before "Перекрестком" Crossroads and "Байк-Лендом" "Baik-Lendom", 500/1000, most likely these are the dyeffki who migrated from tochka at к/т Minsk.

5. At the beginning of “Одинцово” Odintsovo, against “ТЦ Курс" Kurs with "Перекрестком" Crossroads and the fitness center. Mamka-mayachok, in any weather - in a dark blue ski jumpsuit, can stand in the direction of travel from Moscow, and on the other side. She sends you to a large stationary tochka with dyeffki for the night. But as a rule, among them there will be a hustler, ready to suck/fuck right there for 700/1000. This tochka works from 23:00 until the late night. Sometimes on the same place (i.e. at "Crossroads") appear individual working girls, 500/1000.

6. Extremely seldom, during the time period from 20:00 and until later, on a site from "Crossroads" to "McDonalds" there is a working girl, Anya, looks slightly Asian. 700 only for sex. Does not suck at all, for ideological reasons. Doesn’t give out her phone number.

7. From the arch on "Старая Смоленская дорога" Old Smolensk road to an auto parts shop. From 20:00 until night, works a brigade of dyeffki, 500/1000, price is not negotiable. In the afternoon, until 20:00, they work in the area of ЖД platform "Отрадное" Pleasant and 500 meters beyond.

8. Junction of “старой Можайки” old Mozhaiki in “Одинцова” Odintsova Western industrial zone. At a stop opposite to the gas station and a car wash periodically there are girls. Among others - maturaya the Chechen Elya (???). She’s old, but sucks till it comes off. Clearly experienced... 500/1000.

9. Approximately in the same area, on the turn. 2 local residents, Tanya and Olya. 500/800 in the car. 700/1000 at an apartment nearby (apartment is terrible). 1500 - sex in the apartment with both girls. They also have an extremely interesting offer - 800 minyet in the car, in 2 mouths. One sucks your cock, the second licks your balls. I can share phone with the inhabitants of the West personally familiar to me or for a long time registered on Forum and having of many posts and authority. To yesterday's OnAnimam with 3 posts, phone I will not give.

10. At the end, closer to night sally forth to work the dyeffki in “Садовой улице” Garden street [not sure if there is a Garden street in Moscow, or if the author is referring to the Garden/Sadovaya ring road] - in the area of “Одинцова” Odintsova district road from platform “Отрадное” Pleasant to “ул. Северной” Northern street 500/1000, but negotiable. They look terrible. It is said they are drug addicts. Did not try.

--------------------
Such dirt, such power! And how pleasant into this dirt to fall!
Send to the devil of manners and control, tear away the mask and be simply oneself!

Solntsa Yada

02-20-09, 09:37

So, with curiosity in mind, and knowledge of previous tochka locations I took a short walk last night around Sukharevaskaya Metro.

I had noticed before that some woman holding out sign for rooms, I assumed a place for gypsy taxi drivers to get a decent shower, a good nights sleep, etc. But I was informed that this is more likely a tochka..

and indeed it is.

So, I approached the woman on the street, and asked blatently:

"Eta[this] Tochka?" she looked at me strange, so I asked again "Ya Inostranets[I'm foreign], Eta Tochka?" She motioned for me to go to the car next to the street, I knocked on the door, and was told something, and he motioned to get in. I was cautious so he motioned he was just going to drive around the corner.

Ok, what the heck. So I got in, he drove me half a block into a side street, while making a call and the door opened to a apartment block.

So, it seems that some 'kind of' tochka exists within the centre, but honestly this was just a salon, there were 7 girls, I picked the one with the nicest face.

It was 1500 for an hour and 2k for two, I inquired about extras, she was prepared for BBJ +500, I said I would think about it.. obviously my russian was terrible, (I think I said "Ya Dymal ob eta" but should have said "Ya bydy dymat" )

Anyway, I can honestly say she gave me the best BBJ I have ever had in my life.. she knew her stuff, and even thought it was over in 20 minutes I was happy to pay her, plus a 500k bonus..

For anyone that manages to find it, (it was there only one or two times a week that I used to see the tochka woman with sign) The dark raven haired girl, about 170cm, size 10 (6 American?)

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.

Pizdyets

02-20-09, 10:41

Ты молодец, Страв! Ты более терпелив чем я, чтобы перевести всю статью!

I'll provide more context below...

3. The well-known tochka at “к/т Минск" Minsk.

“к/т" = Movie theater. This particular one is located on Mozhaiskoe Shosse not far from MKAD and dates from Soviet times.

4. It seemed for a long time that it had died, but recently the tochka has suddenly revived next to the second crossing/passageway - of "pipe" through Minka, before "Перекрестком" Crossroads and "Байк-Лендом" "Baik-Lendom", 500/1000, most likely these are the dyeffki who migrated from tochka at к/т Minsk.

Bike-land is a motorcycle shop and Perekryostok is a grocery store. Both located on aforementioned Mozhaiskoe Shosse. This follows a pattern duplicated on just about any major "shosse" or "prospekt" (avenue) outside Moscow (Leningradskoe, Leninsky, Yaroslavskoe, Entusiastov, etc) as there will be a string of lookout girls on any one of these.

7. From the arch on "Старая Смоленская дорога" Old Smolensk road to an auto parts shop. From 20:00 until night, works a brigade of dyeffki, 500/1000, price is not negotiable. In the afternoon, until 20:00, they work in the area of ЖД platform "Отрадное" Pleasant and 500 meters beyond.

ЖД = railroad

9. Approximately in the same area, on the turn. 2 local residents, Tanya and Olya. 500/800 in the car. 700/1000 at an apartment nearby (apartment is terrible). 1500 - sex in the apartment with both girls.

Isn't that awesome? 3-some for around 40 bucks! I'm relatively certain that the girls are disgusting, but still, there's something to be said about that!

10. At the end, closer to night sally forth to work the dyeffki in “Садовой улице” Garden street [not sure if there is a Garden street in Moscow, or if the author is referring to the Garden/Sadovaya ring road] - in the area of “Одинцова” Odintsova district road from platform “Отрадное” Pleasant to “ул. Северной” Northern street 500/1000, but negotiable. They look terrible. It is said they are drug addicts. Did not try.

Strav - in general, for the last places mentioned, he is referring to locations in Odintsovo, not Moscow. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Russian+Federation,+Province+of+Moscow,+%D0%9E%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%86%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9+%D0%BC%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86.+%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BE%D0%BD,+Odintsovo,+%D0%A1%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%8F+%D1%83%D0%BB.&sll=55.755786,37.617633&sspn=0.816049,2.724609&g=moscow&ie=UTF8&cd=2&geocode=FXeBUQMdj3A4Ag&split=0&ll=55.676326,37.266655&spn=0.025554,0.085144&t=h&z=14&iwloc=addr

It is roughly 10km outside of MKAD. If you're going to do this, you'd better have your own (trusted) driver!

Stravinsky

02-20-09, 16:26

OK, K/T = kino teatr, makes sense.

There was one sentence I could not make sense of in number 5., "Отсылает в район коттежного поселдка "Княжичи". What I get is "Send away to the area of the cottage _______ Princes." ??? I think поселдка must be a typo, but my vocabulary isn't good enough to figure out what the correct word should be. Is there some landmark in the area named "Княжичи" (Knyazhichi)?

Googled Байк-Лендом (Bike Land) and found their website with a map to their location. Also found Odintsovo, way beyond the MKAD. Sounds like it's a whole 'nother world out there.

You're right, forty bucks for a three way has to be the best deal in Moscow. But, the author was pretty straightforward about telling you when something or someone was strashni (terrible), so Tanya and Olya can't be half bad. I mean... for 40 bucks?? :)

Pizdyets

02-20-09, 17:27

OK, K/T = kino teatr, makes sense.

There was one sentence I could not make sense of in number 5., "Отсылает в район коттежного поселдка "Княжичи". What I get is "Send away to the area of the cottage _______ Princes." ??? I think поселдка must be a typo, but my vocabulary isn't good enough to figure out what the correct word should be. Is there some landmark in the area named "Княжичи" (Knyazhichi)?

Yeah, it's a typo. He meant коттеджного поселка (loosely "of the cottage village").

You're right, forty bucks for a three way has to be the best deal in Moscow. But, the author was pretty straightforward about telling you when something or someone was strashni (terrible), so Tanya and Olya can't be half bad. I mean... for 40 bucks?? :)

Yeah, too bad I'm not a member on sextalk in as good standing as on ISG, or I'd score their number and give 'em a whirl!

Stravinsky

02-20-09, 18:20

OK, Княжичи (Knyazhichi) is a new housing development on Ул. Говорова (Govorova), just off Mozhayskoye Shosse, last exit before MKAD. So it sounds as if there is a good-sized tochka there with girls you can take out overnight.

But that's waaaay outside the Garden Ring.

Dealdo

02-21-09, 02:49

Which are your experiences with www.putana.nu?

Are fake all profiles?The cuties are, do not trust it.

AColonizer

02-21-09, 07:00

What do you mean?

The cuties are, do not trust it

AColonizer

02-21-09, 10:44

I have found dozens of contacts by moslove.com.

Most of them offer very good price/service but also they want to work at their own flats and they don't want to come to our flats or hotels.

They are a lot of salons, of course, and some individuals. I am very afraid to be rip-off, or worse, at their flats.

What is your opinions and experiences? What is the method to take girls to our flats or hotels?

Stravinsky

02-21-09, 19:28

I have found dozens of contacts by moslove.com.Just curious, did you meet any of these women? Or are you simply collecting phone numbers?

AColonizer

02-21-09, 20:49

I am organizing a Blitz-Krieg with my troops in Stealth planes to inseminate as many Russian mouths as possible and detecting them by their phone numbers.

Just curious, did you meet any of these women? Or are you simply collecting phone numbers?

Kurenda

02-21-09, 23:12

Acolonizer you ask about putana.nu

For you and everobody else keep in mind all this russian sites with pros are 90% with fake images. Here's some identifications.

http://www.putana.nu/list.php?link=31038
Briana Banks, porn actress from USA
http://www.putana.nu/list.php?link=44671
Shay Laren, erotic model from USA
http://www.putana.nu/list.php?link=41630
Eve Angel, porn actress from Hungary
http://www.putana.nu/list.php?link=43657
Marketa Belonoha, erotic model from Czech Republic
http://www.putana.nu/list.php?link=47000
Monique Alexander, porn actress from USA
http://www.putana.nu/list.php?link=47010

Lena from MET art website

And I bothered to search more.

There are many photos of girls with typical Russian look but the are taken from websites of MET art and Voronin. Also many photos from playboy and Twistys. It is funny to see the photo of well known porn actress like Briana Banks from USA and then read comments under the pictures. "It's her pictures 100%, banged her for 2 hours, she gives exellent blowjob, etc". Maybe she decided to leave USA and move to Moscow to be cheap *****. Or this guys watched too many of her porn flicks. Acolonizer you mentioned somewhere on the forum you are in the porn bussiness so you should know better who are on those pictures.

So people don't get to excited about photos on the Russian sites with prostitutes. Great majority are not the girls who will offer you services.

AColonizer

02-22-09, 01:09

However, the important question is: most girls are call-in girls only, so we can trust to go to their flats? Otherwise, what is the reason for "выеэда нет"???

AColonizer

02-22-09, 15:05

No replies?

I want to have a good time, for me and for girls, and to pay standard Russian tariff 2500 rubles/hour and NOT 150$/hour!

However, the important question is: most girls are call-in girls only, so we can trust to go to their flats? Otherwise, what is the reason for "выеэда нет"???

Doctor_Skank

02-22-09, 16:39

However, the important question is: most girls are call-in girls only, so we can trust to go to their flats? Otherwise, what is the reason for "выеэда нет"???I assume выеэда нет is for 2 reasons:

1) their security

2) business... going out means at least 3 hours away from work even for an hour of sex. 1 hour there, 1 hour sex, 1 hour back. Doesn't make economic sense.

And a 3rd reason might be laziness, why go out when the customer comes to you?

Also, we shouldn't forget that the average Russian doesn't want the girl coming to his apartment... he might have a wife, girlfriend or curious neighbors. He'd prefer to screw her at a neutral location.

AColonizer

02-22-09, 17:30

Stravinsky

02-22-09, 18:03

going out means at least 3 hours away from work even for an hour of sex. 1 hour there, 1 hour sex, 1 hour back. Doesn't make economic sense.Take out will always be more expensive. Typically a girl will charge twice the regular hourly rate for выеэд.

Also, we shouldn't forget that the average Russian doesn't want the girl coming to his apartment... he might have a wife, girlfriend or curious neighbors. He'd prefer to screw her at a neutral location.But for a tourist, it can be an advantage. I've shlepped across town a couple times only to find a goblin standing at the door. If a girl is going to come to you, she better be on the up-and-up, or the joke's on her.

Jake993

02-22-09, 21:50

No replies?

I want to have a good time, for me and for girls, and to pay standard Russian tariff 2500 rubles/hour and NOT 150$/hour!I have been to "working apartments" about 6 times. Twice was not such a great experience, but the others were great.

These girls want to make some money but are either too shy to "put themselves out there" or are trying to protect their identity. For some girls, going to NF or HD is part of the rush. for others, it's about the money, some good sex and the thrill of fucking a stranger.

If you can get past the hassle of finding the right apartment, I have found these girls to be VERY honest, VERY honorable, and certainly safe. they are inviting you into their homes to have sex with them for a small fee and I thing that shows tremendous courage.

I would not hesitate to follow the thread. If it feels wrong - just walk away. But all four visit I have had to in-call girls have been very good.

Kurenda

02-22-09, 22:43

Thanxxx, but are those just hypothesis or real experiences?
I mean, I have met, here in Italy, some regular Russian women who advised me "I don't trust to rent a flat in Moscow because I don't want to wake up with my broken head. " And is necessary this precaution when we go alone to a prostitutes' flat, too?This can be true. Met US guy in Moscow who told me about his bad experiance. He set up a meeting with the girl in "working apartment" and didn't know what to expect. He expect to see some butt ugly girl but insted door was opened by quite good looking girl. He was very pleased. The girl requested they have a shower together which lasted for 15 minutes. When they went out, he was faced with three guys armed with gun and knives and holding his possession. They took him 1200$, the girl recieved 200$ saying "see you next time guys". Those guys told him they can tear up his passport leaving him in trouble. But they decided to play nice and writed his address in USA. Telling him if he goes to police to report what happened they will send their russian friends to pay him a visit. When the goons left he was bold enough to stop police patrole on the street and tell them what happened. They went to the apartment to check what happened and the was opened by nie babushka holding her cat and saying she lives there and she was there all the time and never saw the American. So the police couldn't do much and explained tihs is the whole gang. Girl brings victims and babushaka is giving her apartment waiting very near.

Another guy told me about similar case where he came to the apartment but he didn't like the girl who was there. He wanted to leave but two big goons confronted him demanding to pay 100$ for "checking the girl" or they'll beat the shit out of him.
So this things happen all the time only make sure they don't happen to you.

You ask about your safety but also those girls ask if they are safe from you.

Use your common sense like any other place. If the place doesn't look very good, in dark, ruined, with suspicious people sitting around on the benches, in the park or like two guys sitting in the car without visible reason make decision to continue or leave.

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Polish Guy

02-23-09, 13:00

Was in Moscow the other week for two days. stayed at the Metropol Hotel which by the way has working girls in the lobby in the evenings, they charge 300 EURO's though for an hour. I used the russian site www.rusdosug.com in general a good way for non Russian speakers to find what they are looking for. Was in the mood for something different and Gasmin caught my eye: http://www.rusdosug.com/indi.php?service=2&id=29355 called her up and was told that for two hours with anal its 5000 RUR. She told me she will be there in 45 min and was.

I got a call from downstairs saying that she is there and can I pick her up. Not something I like doing in general but ok. Get to the lobby. She is walking in the front door. She looks like her photographs. Wearing Jeans and a black leather coat. She takes my hand, kisses me on the cheek and we walk back towards the elevator as if we are old friends. Security does not intervene. She tells me she speaks 'little english'.

When we get into the room, we start to kiss, tongue action. We both undress. She is a big girl in all dimentions, big ass, huge breasts, and is large in general. Not my usual type but... continue kissing, I start sucking on her thick nipples, she takes my cock in her hand and massages it. we get onto the bed, she takes a condom and asks me oral with or without? I say with. she puts it on using her mouth and hand. nice. nice long blowjob, licking the shaft, going quite deep, then I have her tit fuck me between those huge breasts. I tell her to get on all fours and I start to take her hairy pussy. she is big but there is something about pounding that ass. I pull out and say to her 'anal?' she looks a bit unsure saying 'no gel?' I shake my head and say no, so she goes to the bathroom and comes back with some 'intimate gel' that the hotel leaves. She spreads a huge amount on her ass, puts some on my cock. She then leans down putting her big ass up for me and spreads her cheeks. I get in easily. nice. I push in deep and start to take her hard. I pound her easily for 5-10 min feeling the build up. I pull out and shoot my cum all over her big ass. She seemed to like that, smiling at me and shaking her head. We both go into the bathroom. She get under the shower, I clean up, and follow her in after she is done.

We step back into the bedroom. I put on a xxx film on tv and we lie back on the bed. she takes a glass of water from the side and snuggles in next to me.she slowly massages my cock, kissing my chest, nipples, I slowly get hard. I push her down and have her spread her legs. decide that I want to fuck her hairy **** with my fingers. I insert two, then three, then four. she rubs her clit as I finger fuck her. I then try and push my thumb in as well but she stops me saying 'no, no fist' I stop but continue with the four which she appreciates. I do this while masturbating my cock. I am now ready to go again. I get up and have her get on her knees. I stand watching the film on tv while she takes my cock in her mouth. she wants to put on a condom but I say no, she shruggs and swallows my cock whole. I start to fuck her mouth while watching the xxx. She does not use her hands, letting me hold her head while moving in and out of her mouth, quite deep. I pick up a rhytm and look down on her while she looks up. eye contact is maintained. I switch from the film to her. I pull out and shoot my load, she pulls back and pushes up her breasts indicating I should fire there, which I do.

Again shower. this time I come out and get dressed. she asks if she has to go. I am spent and tell her yes. I think she thought two hours is two hours with multiples which is good to know. she leaves without me having to go downstairs.

The next day I had a dinner and only got into the hotel around 23.00. Called up a number of girls but many did not answer or phones are out of service. the following three answered phones - Tatyana. Her english is excellent and she claims USD 250 with anal for two hours but told me she could not meet me that day since it was quite late: http://www.rusdosug.com/indi.php?service=2&id=31662 Alisa: http://www.rusdosug.com/indi.php?service=2&id=26588 answers the phone but does not speak english and will not come to the hotel. The last straw was with Inga http://www.rusdosug.com/indi.php?service=2&id=28164 answers the phone. very weak english, we agree to 2500 RUR for an hour at the Metropol. She tells me she will be there in 30 min. I get a call back 15 min later by another girl who says that she is Inga and she can come to the hotel but the price has gone up to 8000 RUR and no anal! so I declined. By this time its past midnight so I call it quits. lesson for all of us is to start looking for an evening hotel visit around 22.00 it takes ages to get through and find a person you are looking for, especially if you don't speak Russian.

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Solntsa Yada

02-23-09, 16:32

When I first got to Moscow, I used to try to visit girls or have them visit me at least twice a month, back then was $100 for call out, $75 for call in. I made a few mistakes at first.

Firstly, don't choose only one girl, choose a few, check for locations, make a few calls for the same location, get addresses, if you can, get them to SMS the address to you.

Then when your in the area, flag down a taxi, 50 rubles max to 'find' an apartment, better than walking around, especially in winter.

I'd line up at least 3 in the same metro area, sometimes same building.

Never take your passport, just a photo-copy, never take more money than you plan to spend, if she's priced at 2500 take 3k (tipping them is worth it for later)

Don't wear your best clothes or shoes, you never know. And take a large thick black texta. See later.

I've heard lots of bad stories, but never had any seriously bad stuff from these 'call outs/ins' only from NF and HD have I had the serious shitstorm troubles.

Anyways. Getting a girl to shower? Thats rare. Getting her to strip infront? Also rare. Most of these girls DO NOT LIVE in the apartment your going to. Check the cupboards etc, its a few blankets, some bags of tea, and NOTHING ELSE!

Most of the time (about two thirds) Its the same girl from the photo. Sometimes its not. When its not, tell the girl. HEY! Your not who I came here to meet. I don't want you at "that price", your not worth X rubles, (if she's attractive, try this: I'll leave now if you want X. If the girl at the door is smart, she'll take the business, you get a discount. If she's NOT up to standards, you've already prepared for this with other addresses.

Sometimes, (twice for me) you get an absolute stunner, who's just started. She's brand new to moscow, brand new to this crazy life, and she wants out. You can usually tell the fresh faces newb from the dark eyed pro, tip her well, get her number, and convince her that her 'babushka' does not need to know ANYTHING about it. You get these girls to come visit you once or twice more, on babushka's clock, and then she'll come visit you on her own clock, then she'll visit you for free.

My mate, had one girl come live with him, clean his apartment, fuck his brains out, for 3 months, AND arrange threesomes until he left Moscow. Because she was Day 4 on the job, and got roughed up by the last 3 Russian joes, and he was sweet and kind.

Heck, I got a call from one girl for new years, she was alone, and wanted me to come be with her, for free.

But, as I said. For all this experience, not one set of bouncers, not once did I get robbed or threatened for the website girls, and as I pointed out 60-70% legit photos, 25% professional touch up photos of real girls, 5% complete fakes.

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Kurenda

02-23-09, 21:51

Gentlemen be sure all kind of shit is out there waiting.

But you can also be sure typical foreigner is not likely to be a victim.

Yes there are chances for this to happen as with anything else.

But Russians are wise. They know typical foreigner will come to Moscow,
stay few days, spending his money in hotel, night club, p4p, anything else.

So he's supporting local economy and Russians want him to come again and do the same, tell his friends about his experiance so they can come also.

But this things in "working" apartments usually happens to local men.

Don't know how much of you are folowing russian newspapers and TV but there are reports about this every now and then. There is a TV show about crime in Moscow called "Criminal Moscow" where you can see russian man with hidden face and modified voice (so they will not be recognized by their wifes) telling about their experiance in "working apartments". Can't say it is really true or they are just too dramatic but they have some disturbing stories. Also saw a moscow man who was arrested for beating a girl and his explanation was she was a prostitute and her gang robbed him in the appartment and second part of the gang stormed his car parked down on the street taking anything valuable enough. So he arranged with his mate to set up a visit with the same girl, only different location this time. The guy got the girl and beat her to tell him where to find the people who stole his money and robbed his car. Somehow he was arrested by police.

On the other hand foreigner has more chances of tihs problem out of Moscow, in some provinicial town.

Last summer I was in Nizhny Novgorod. Town on Volga where those river ships are stopping with foreign tourists on Volga cruise. One of those tours was in town for 2 days with tourist from Scandinavia. On the local TV I was watching about local news and saw this 50-60 year old Swede all upset in the police station. He was arrested when police patrol found him walking on the streets compeltelly naked (!). But he was explaining how he was been robbed by prostitutes. He claimed that local tourist guide had a private conversation with him and set him up a meeting in local "working apartment"where he can choose between three girls. He went there by taxi and in the apartment where three girls. After short conversations they attacked him, hiting him all over the body using martial arts, karate or something as he explined. They threaten to break his legs if he dosn't give them his money, credit card and camera. Then they foreced him to take his clothes off, kicked him down the stairs and run away with his clothes. So swedish guy was wandering down the streets trying to find taxi around midnight but cops spotted him first and arrested him. Swedish guy was going crazy on TV saying everythnig is true and he want his embassy to protect him. Police chief refused to investigate claiming swedish guy is "voayer and pervert, Sweden is full of them and he only wants Russia to look bad without reason".

The story is funny and bizzare, but most probably can be true at some point.

I've been to several Volga cities like Nizhny Novgorod, Samara and Yaroslav and I talked to Russians who work on those touris ships. They told me a part of those foreign tourist refuse to leave the ship because something bad can happen to them and those go to the shore to see the town keep in groups.

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