FKK Arabella / Villa Venus / Sauna Grimberg - NRW AO Clubs

These 3 clubs are run by the same management, and are all located in the Duisburg - Essen area. They all offer Bareback action. Current pricing is 3 x 30 min AO sessions for €110, and this includes entry.

[url]http://www.fkk-arabella.com/[/url]

[url]http://www.fkk-venus.com/[/url]

[url]http://www.fkk-venus.com/[/url]

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?3215-Bareback-AO-(Alles-Ohne).Flat-Rate-Clubs-Parties-and-Events&p=1382917&viewfull=1#post1382917 [/url]

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?3215-Bareback-AO-(Alles-Ohne).Flat-Rate-Clubs-Parties-and-Events&p=1374271&viewfull=1#post1374271 [/url]

plus Optimist

[url] http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?3215-Bareback-AO-(Alles-Ohne)-Flat-Rate-Clubs-Parties-and-Events&p=1361290&viewfull=1#post1361290[/url]

plus Creature

[url] http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?3215-Bareback-AO-(Alles-Ohne)-Flat-Rate-Clubs-Parties-and-Events&p=1361290&viewfull=1#post1361290 [/url]

Under the same management and system is also.

[url=http://www.fkk-erotika.com/]FKK-Erotika[/url]

In Iserlohn.

[url=http://www.fkk-alina.com]FKK-Alina[/url]

, due to open tomorrow in Dorsten, also uses the same system. I bet someone wil soon confirm that also this new one is under the very same management as the other four.

In another area and under different management, but using same all inclusive system is also [url=http://m-exclusiv.com]M-Exclusiv[/url] (Dülmen), sessions last here only 20' though.

Sauna Club Belami is under the same management too. But I don't know if AO service is included. I have a business card that has Grimberg, Villa Venus, Arabella, and Belami on it.

[url]http://www.fkk-belami.com/0.htm[/url]

This is the url for Club Grimberg: [url]http://www.grimbergsauna.com/1.htm[/url]

My favorite grils here are Alice and Nataly.

[QUOTE=Sportsman; 1386176]This is the url for Club Grimberg:

[url]http://www.grimbergsauna.com/1.htm[/url][/QUOTE]Fucks sake I meant to post the Grimberg url but ended up posting the Villa Venus one twice.

Lack of sex must be making me stupid. Anyway thanks Sportsman for posting it.

I visited Grimberg in September '12 when the pricing structure was 1-4 sessions. Now that they (all 3 clubs) have increased the rates to 1X60, 2X90, and 3X110, do you still pay 30E surcharge to the girl after an AO session? The linked reports don't make any mention of extra payments beyond the initial session options paid to the desk lady. Thanks

[QUOTE=Burma Jones;1386530]I visited Grimberg in September '12 when the pricing structure was 1-4 sessions. Now that they (all 3 clubs) have increased the rates to 1X60, 2X90, and 3X110, do you still pay 30E surcharge to the girl after an AO session? The linked reports don't make any mention of extra payments beyond the initial session options paid to the desk lady. Thanks[/QUOTE]Prices now include all extras, including AO.

Thanks, Wanking, for posting all this in a new thread. Much simpler to navigate.

I am landing in DUS around 7 pm on a Monday night. And will pick up a rental car.

Unfortunately, I could not find anything on that evening in SwingerLover map, so was thinking at going to one of those 3 AO clubs.

Have read the reports, seen the websites, and. Don't know which one to choose. Monday night may not be the best day, but this I can't change.

Are there any differences which may help me to choose? Or should I just go to the one closer to the airport and / or to any hotel? And by the way, any cheap hotel, with wifi, close to any of those clubs?

If not, I will just toss a coin.

Go to Grimberg or Arabella, they are just 15min apart. If you don't like the line-up or the hardware. Just move on. It's 60€ entree including one 30min session. Grimberg is thhe bigger club.

HB

The 1X60 2X90 & 3X110 seems to be over with at present, it was running during last trip just over a month ago, just back from Villa Venus where is it back to 30+30 to entry inc 1 AO session then 30 for each session after that, interesting thing, you do not pay the girl for extra session direct, but pay the Tanke, & girl gets a token. Line up not bad at all, did 2 Casandra & Yana.

FKK Alina is the 4th of the clubs (new) and is getting good reviews. What Arabella and Grimberg is concerned I hear Grimberg has more good service providers and Arabella has more young slim girls. This whole AO scene isn't my cup of tea, so I can't speak from experience.

Personally, its not the AO but the quality of the clubs and most of the girls. I'd rather buy super thin condoms and fuck optifucks than do lower quality of girls while I'm on vacation. I can get AO from girls at home for a fraction of the normal surcharge.

[QUOTE=Dreams; 1394569]I am landing in DUS around 7 pm on a Monday night. And will pick up a rental car.

Unfortunately, I could not find anything on that evening in SwingerLover map[/QUOTE]Laluna has their flat rate party on Monday. 11 MAR. 129 euros for AO. They are open until 1:00 am on Monday.

[url]http://www.club-laluna-moers.de/[/url]

The other three clubs close at midnight.

[QUOTE=Dreams;1394569]And by the way, any cheap hotel, with wifi, close to any of those clubs?[/QUOTE]I'll be landing at Weeze on the 19th and I'm also interested in hotels near one of the clubs if anyone has any intel. Thanks. Pac

[QUOTE=Dasisextra;1394618]The 1X60 2X90 & 3X110 seems to be over with at present, it was running during last trip just over a month ago, just back from Villa Venus where is it back to 30+30 to entry inc 1 AO session then 30 for each session after that, interesting thing, you do not pay the girl for extra session direct, but pay the Tanke, & girl gets a token. Line up not bad at all, did 2 Casandra & Yana.[/QUOTE]Just so you don't get confused: You pay at the "Theke" (which means bar) and not "Tanke" (which means gas station). LOL.

These 3 clubs are changing their pricing model based on how many girls & guys are in the club on a daily basis, even within the day you might encounter both pricing models.

HB

Folks.

Looking for a FKK club where one can get AO. Closer to Frankfurt or Munich. I RTFF but could not locate one. Can anyone enlighten me?

On one of the German forums there have been a number of reports about guests having their car broken into and robbed while visiting VV. One guy even reported that it happened to him when his vehicle was parked right in front of the building.

This seems to be a pretty serious issue and worth taking note of if one is planning on parking anywhere on that street in the evening. Sounds as though a criminal element is targeting cars visiting VV. Not all that hard to imagine considering the area.

Be warned, bring GPS and laptop devices inside with you, and avoid leaving valuables in the car.

Cheers,

Dedalus

[QUOTE=Breadman;1394666]Personally, its not the AO but the quality of the clubs and most of the girls. I'd rather buy super thin condoms and fuck optifucks than do lower quality of girls while I'm on vacation. I can get AO from girls at home for a fraction of the normal surcharge.[/QUOTE]With all due respect, why do you come on an AO thread to tell us that? We certainly respect each one's preferences, but don't understand why you continue reading AO threads.

[QUOTE=Hessen Bub; 1394576]Go to Grimberg or Arabella, they are just 15min apart. If you don't like the line-up or the hardware. Just move on. It's 60€ entree including one 30min session. Grimberg is thhe bigger club.

HB[/QUOTE]Thanks HB and others.

Will probably start with Grimberg and see how it goes.

Still missing info on nearby hotels, if somebody has a suggestion. Any Ibis budget near by?

[QUOTE=Free Dude;1394623]FKK Alina is the 4th of the clubs (new) and is getting good reviews. What Arabella and Grimberg is concerned I hear Grimberg has more good service providers and Arabella has more young slim girls. This whole AO scene isn't my cup of tea, so I can't speak from experience.[/QUOTE]Yes, I have read on foreign forums about this new place, but did not find any report on ISG. If I go, I'll report, but have niot yet decided.

[QUOTE=Dreams;1394900]With all due respect, why do you come on an AO thread to tell us that? We certainly respect each one's preferences, but don't understand why you continue reading AO threads.[/QUOTE]With all due respect, for a guy who insists AO isn't offered at Bernds you've seem to have an interest in visiting AO clubs. You don't like what I post, add me to your ignore list.

For what it's worth I booked a room at Niewerther Hof, Klumperstrasse 1-3, 46348 Raesfeld for 48 euros per night. Includes breakfast and wifi and parking (according to the website). I haven't been there but read some decent reviews on the hotel.

[QUOTE=Breadman;1394932]With all due respect, for a guy who insists AO isn't offered at Bernds you've seem to have an interest in visiting AO clubs. You don't like what I post, add me to your ignore list.[/QUOTE]Don't you think it is logical that, because I never got (and never asked) for AO in Bernd's, I look at AO clubs. Get it?

Ignore is a useless tool, since posts are constantly quoted.

But I don't mind your posts, I just comment on them. As you do with mine.

The good news is that we will never meet, I go to Bernd's and will go to AO clubs, and these are places that, I guess, you never go to!

[QUOTE=PacificRim;1394954]For what it's worth I booked a room at Niewerther Hof, Klumperstrasse 1-3, 46348 Raesfeld for 48 euros per night. Includes breakfast and wifi and parking (according to the website). I haven't been there but read some decent reviews on the hotel.[/QUOTE]Thnaks, that loooks good. Just drop us a line about your experience after you have been there.

[QUOTE=MS Clive; 1394830]Folks.

Looking for a FKK club where one can get AO. Closer to Frankfurt or Munich. I RTFF but could not locate one. Can anyone enlighten me?[/QUOTE]DVR is the closest to Frankfurt of which I am aware and try to visit when I'm in country. With a couple of exceptions, it's reliably AO. The facilities are average, but the girls are friendly (even to an English-speaker) and very accommodating. Check out the thread in this forum. It's about 120km from the city and is pretty much a straight shot out the A-3. If there is a closer AO place, I'm not aware of it. I'd like to try one of the places in this forum, but they are just too far away.

[QUOTE=Hessen Bub; 1394761]Just so you don't get confused: You pay at the "Theke" (which means bar) and not "Tanke" (which means gas station). LOL.

HB[/QUOTE]I ventured to Grimberg today, the name says a lot,"GRIM" Line up nothing as good as VV and the large room is much better to see the girls at Villa Venus, saying that as I was there I did 2 sessions and paid the "Theke" (thanks for the German lesson HB) LOL. Will be sticking to Villa Venus me think. Might try Arabelle, memory not great, not sure if I tried there before.

BTW AO is available in Bernds if they know you & you know which girls do it, it is around the 50/50 mark.

[QUOTE=Max #01;1395036]DVR is the closest to Frankfurt of which I am aware and try to visit when I'm in country. With a couple of exceptions, it's reliably AO. The facilities are average, but the girls are friendly (even to an English-speaker) and very accommodating. Check out the thread in this forum. It's about 120km from the city and is pretty much a straight shot out the A-3. If there is a closer AO place, I'm not aware of it. I'd like to try one of the places in this forum, but they are just too far away.[/QUOTE]I am also not aware of any AO place near (or in) FRA, though I have looked. The problem with DVR is that not everyone can, or wants to, rent a car and drive in Germany.

Maybe some of the owners of other AO clubs could be presauded to open a new place near FRA. I bet they would do a booming business because there must be a lot of people like me who have to land in FRA, and that would be the most convenient place by far!

[QUOTE=Dasisextra;1395057]I ventured to Grimberg today, the name says a lot,"GRIM" Line up nothing as good as VV[/QUOTE]Dasisextra,

Was Alice happened to be there? If she was there, you wouldn't have missed her. She is the best looking girl there by anyone's standard. I heard she might be at the new club Alina now. I will be in the area on Friday and want to track her down. Thanks.

[QUOTE=Sportsman; 1395095]Dasisextra,

Was Alice happened to be there? If she was there, you wouldn't have missed her. She is the best looking girl there by anyone's standard. I heard she might be at the new club Alina now. I will be in the area on Friday and want to track her down. Thanks.[/QUOTE]Sorry can not help, the name does not ring any bells, or a stunning looker, saying that I can not even remember the names of who I sessioned with.

[QUOTE=MS Clive;1394830]Looking for a FKK club where one can get AO. Closer to Frankfurt or Munich. I RTFF but could not locate one. Can anyone enlighten me?[/QUOTE]As you can see on my AO map [url]http://goo.gl/maps/Rk0pE[/url] (which just passed the 14000 views mark) there are not many places around Frankfurt, DVR is the closest, assuming that you are looking for one-on-one AO action. If you like AO gangbangs too, then look for the occasional parties from Gangbang01 in Mörfelden and Sexy-Susi in Heidesheim.

Forget about AO in Munich. When it comes to paid sex, AO is prohibited in Bavaria. So the only options there will be private venues or filmed events. And the city of Frankfurt seems to have a problem with AO-parties too, I was told as much. So here also only private venues in Frankfurt itself, no parties, no clubs. AO maybe available with some hookers, but I don't know about that scene.

Aside from my map, look here for AO: [url]www.fickreklame.com/ao-kontakte/index.php[/url]

[QUOTE=SwingerLover;1395199]Forget about AO in Munich. When it comes to paid sex, AO is prohibited in Bavaria.[/url][/QUOTE]Indeed, and even worse: even OWO (BBBJ) Is forbidden in Bavaria (in P6, when it is free it is allowed. Strange laws there.).

As written in some other thread, NRW seems to be party- as well as AO heaven, for the people who like it of course (happily WITH condom is allowed everywhere)

[QUOTE=Varenne; 1385717]Under the same management and system is also.

[url=http://www.fkk-alina.com]FKK-Alina[/url]

, due to open tomorrow in Dorsten, also uses the same system. I bet someone wil soon confirm that also this new one is under the very same management as the other four.[/QUOTE]I went to check out FKK Alina today, no way this place has just opened, you could tell by the seats and carpets ect ect, the price is 1 x 50 2 x 80 3 x 100.

I went for the 3 x 100 option, line up not great, similar to others, I took one girl and kept her in the room for 90 minutes so that covered my 3 session, she was delighted to get 3 tokens, had a good chat with her, she has been working there for 3 years, since it first opened, her words, not mine. While chatting to her it was nearly enough to turn you off these cheap AO clubs, she had tears in her eyes when she spoke that she has no friends outside the club, she works 6 days a a week, first 2 sessions cover her club entry and sleep, then she gets €25 for each token.

Very nice club! It is very good that you can find some ladies there that they are really into bareback anal. Maybe, they are not so beautiful but they are in their early twnties and their sexual performance is very good. It is perfect to see sperm dripping out of their red assholes, like in the porn movies!

[QUOTE=Woodypussy1967;1401452]Very nice club! It is very good that you can find some ladies there that they are really into bareback anal. Maybe, they are not so beautiful but they are in their early twnties and their sexual performance is very good. It is perfect to see sperm dripping out of their red assholes, like in the porn movies![/QUOTE]What club you are talking about?

That's true for all 3 clubs. Except for the "they are into it" part. They are there for the money, BB is a must and they are fighting for customers. That's why they let you fuck their asses BB for 30€ including CIM.

HB

HB. Correct. There is sometimes an air of desperation to some girls when they open up: they do not make so much as in the top FKKs and it shows. They are especially happy if they can do a session with a condom, or even better, get paid to chat. But having said this, I have found the service level on average to be higher than in some highly reputed FKKs: in that sense maybe they are more "into it". Maybe I have just been lucky.

Maybe they just HAVE to give better service to earn their living. Some people say that's the case for the "second class" girls in the bigger FKKs."Die hässlichen (Frauen) sind die dankbarsten". (The ugly girls are the most grateful.) Actually I've had my overall best sessions in the last 12 years with the 9s and 10s.

HB

[While chatting to her it was nearly enough to turn you off these cheap AO clubs, she had tears in her eyes when she spoke that she has no friends outside the club, she works 6 days a a week, first 2 sessions cover her club entry and sleep, then she gets €25 for each token.]

I apologize for entering a section that is not (yet?) my cup of tea. I respect all opinions, practices and choices, but the quoted above is really touching, heartbreaking, should move a rock! Are these girls freely willing to do it? Why should a girl decide to work AO, for such a little earning? She would make more money more easily selling herself anywhere else: country, clubs, flats, streets, etc. And she could do it without AOing. I know this question can be used anywhere anyhow, but in this particular case it arises strongerly. Just wondering.

EastGoing. Despite my moniker I largely agree with HB and Nick the G on this issue. If we go to the clubs there is no point having bleeding hearts when we hear the truth about girls' circumstances. In this there is really no major distinction between AO clubs and other clubs: this is why sometime so I go to Venus and Arabella etc. The girls there can be nice, need the money, can give good service, and it is cheaper. And you can use a condom (it's not forbidden and will be appreciated by the girls). I do not write these clubs off.

If you get to know FKK girls you will realise that the majority are finding life very difficult, and this is not just in these lower level AO clubs. Girls in top class FKKs may also be working six days a week, have no friends or life outside the club, and be living only for their next visit home. But as one girl said to me years ago "It has to be done" (she is now living in Germany and independent of "managers"). Maybe they just want a future or to look after their children (and be worrying if they have made the right career choice, about infections, about their mothers finding out and so on). The difference in the "AO" clubs is that the girls tend to be the sort who could not compete in a high level FKK, often have poor language skills, less experience of life, and more often come from disadvantaged backgrounds (e.g. Roma). This means they are very likely to have a "manager" taking a significant cut of their meagre income or owe a debt to someone for being introduced to the club, being accommodated and transported.

And of course there is the belief that antibiotics and testing will keep them safe. This is to a large degree true, and young people tend to think they are invulnerable. They usually smoke heavily (probably a greater danger than AO) so their attitude to risk may be different to yours. The risk of infection is not as high as is commonly said - more worrying perhaps is the risk of cervical cancer as a result of unprotected (and to a lesser degree) covered sex, but this usually seems to be a remote risk to most girls. So if you are really concerned - try to stop the girl smoking and don't have sex with her (protected or not), or at least encourage her to get (or continue to get) regularly smear tested and STD tested

The reason the girl had tears in her eyes was probably that she had found a nice customer and felt able to let go a little. When this happens maybe the customer should be pleased to have brought a little safety for the girl for a few minutes? And just think - if you got to know most individuals at an intimate level you will find they have tears in their eyes about some great sadness or problem in their lives. So these girls are not so different to the majority of us - they have just risen to a challenge of their very difficult economic circumstances.

Of course this all applies less to German resident girls. They will have friends, be more likely to be independent, etc. But they will require a higher income so they will not be found normally in AO clubs. Whereas a Romanian, even in an AO club, will earn net significantly more the average wage for a skilled Romanian worker. The ones who don't, go home and don't return.

And before we get despondent, remember that the conditions endured by a large proportion of the world's workers who produce the goods we enjoy, via "reputable" companies, are much worse conditions than FKK workers. And I have even had girls say to me they would much rather be prostitutes than check-out operators, being paid peanuts and with no self-respect. I know a girl in Romania who is an intelligent graduate but does not want to be a prostitute - the result is that she is going to spend her life being a sales assistant at rock bottom Romanian wages

Of course some (a tiny minority) girls in any club will want and initiate sex without a condom for no extra charge, simply because they enjoy sex with you and are maybe a bit reckless and / or emotionally volatile. But that's another story.

If you want some fun with intelligent girls at these clubs try Aida at Venus or Angie at Grimberg

Optimist,

What you write is truly indisputable, unquestionable, fully right and fully agreeable. Apart from "moniker", which I couldn't translate (smilie). And you are right also in pointing out that doing AO doesn't change too much the thing from a perspective of "freedom" or "happiness", but what strikes from a superficial point of view is that, as you (and others) admit, they will appreheciate if a customer wants to use a condom. This means that, on top of all the right things you explained about their highly probable situation, they also live their condition with concerns about their health, concerns that don't touch (or just slightly perhaps) the customers going with them, health concerns that don't hassle the graduated Romanian starving out of her sales assistant low salary at home.

That's what I meant to point out, the added problem of the health worries that these girls have on top of the rest. But, like I admitted, you are so right and from a practical point of view nothing can be done to change this fucking world, so. Amen

[QUOTE=EastGoing; 1402561]Apart from "moniker", which I couldn't translate (smilie).

They will appreheciate if a customer wants to use a condom. This means that, on top of all the right things you explained about their highly probable situation, they also live their condition with concerns about their health, [/QUOTE]"Moniker" = nickname.

Can't speak for the FKK-girls, but judging from the AO-girls in Krefeld I'm under the impression that they don't "apprechiate" the use of condoms for health reasons, but because they are too lazy to go wash after each fuck. Which is kinda understandable, given how much time they spend in the bathroom with the shower-hose up their crotch at the AO-parties. I guess that's also the reason for some to not want to get spritzed into the pussy. And I also think someone like Sonja or Karina apprechiate a good creampie-gangfuck with 5 to 8 guys cuming inside them and then only one wash afterwards.

[QUOTE=Optimist; 1402432]They usually smoke heavily (probably a greater danger than AO) so their attitude to risk may be different to yours. The risk of infection is not as high as is commonly said. More worrying perhaps is the risk of cervical cancer as a result of unprotected (and to a lesser degree) covered sex, but this usually seems to be a remote risk to most girls. So if you are really concerned. Try to stop the girl smoking[/QUOTE]Amen. What I've been saying all along too. Put things into perspective!

That was a very interesting report, Optimist. I can fully relate to it. I also RODed it.

[QUOTE]Whereas a Romanian, even in an AO club, will earn net significantly more the average wage for a skilled Romanian worker.[/QUOTE]Yes. I happen to know that at least one of the Bulgarian girls in Krefeld can not even read or write her own mother tongue properly, much less German. Or even English. Some of those girls are from the boonies, the remote Hinterlands of Bulgaria. Even at those shabby apartments in Krefeld, even with loose toilet seats, they must think they died and gone to heaven for just having a toilet IN the apartment, instead of walking 20 m outside to a privy with no heat and running water at temperatures below minus 20° C in the wintertime. And still earn more money for getting fucked all day for maybe 5 € from each guy at a party than a minimum wage worker at home. That is if they could acquire such a job, with such minuscule reading abilities.

That was the downside. The upside is someone like Karina, who like a lot of the Romanians even speaks some decent English, speaks some German and could definitely get other jobs if she wanted to. But then she would not get fucked as much (which Karina definitely enjoys a lot) and would propably still earn much less doing a regular job back home.

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1402561]But, like I admitted, you are so right and from a practical point of view nothing can be done to change this fucking world, so. Amen[/QUOTE]I'm afraid that in war it is killed or be killed my friend and in life I am slowly coming round to the long term pessimistic view that you either fuck or else spend the rest of your life being fucked.

These days everyone is trying to screw as much money out of everybody else as they can in this mass consumer world, generally speaking.

So it best not to ask the question why or think about it too deeply or for too long. Otherwise you would never end up buying anything from the €1 or £1 shop because you would worry too much about whether it was made by gangs of malnourished children in some third world country chained together in a rat infested factory which they then sleep in. You would instead always pay 10 times as much to buy it from a 'respectable' shop and then spend your time continually moaning that you never seem to have any money left at the end of the week.

If girls are offering girlfriend sex for peanuts then just take it because one thing is for sure it's not going to last. Some do-gooder will step in eventually and put a stop to it or the girls will wise up and go elsewhere and then what will you do?

[QUOTE=SwingerLover;1402592]Can't speak for the FKK-girls, but judging from the AO-girls in Krefeld I'm under the impression that they don't "apprechiate" the use of condoms for health reasons, but because they are too lazy to go wash after each fuck.[/QUOTE]Simply fantastic! What can I say, ubi maior minor cessat! (smilie).

Myrrh, once again, you are totally right, I must surrender to evidence. As to your last sentence (inspite of precious teachings given time ago by SL, I stubbornly insist in not understanding a fuck, I mean I can't manage to quote properly) in Artemis thread somebody is spreading panic around. (smilie)

P. S. SL, should we ever meet, it will be easier for you to take me at your favourite clubs than teaching me how to fucking use computers LOL! And don't get told off by Jackson ;)

[QUOTE=Optimist;1402432]Despite my moniker[/QUOTE]Who is this girl?

[QUOTE=Optimist;1402432]The reason the girl had tears in her eyes was probably that she had found a nice customer and felt able to let go a little. When this happens maybe the customer should be pleased to have brought a little safety for the girl for a few minutes? And just think - if you got to know most individuals at an intimate level you will find they have tears in their eyes about some great sadness or problem in their lives. So these girls are not so different to the majority of us - they have just risen to a challenge of their very difficult economic circumstances.[/QUOTE]Ah Optimist, you are really a very wise man with a lot of sensibility and experience.

One ex wife of mine had a true university degree and left the job as soon as she finished paying her manager. One of my current wifes, who's for my taste one of the most striking girls I ever met, she got brain and had an absolutely normal life before her "late" start in this job. So why these things happen? I know the truth behind these two girls but this is not relevant, what makes the difference is when you are the one who sees the tears in their eyes.

There are many different stories behind any of these girls, as you all report and tell. For sure, as also Kommodore said in one of his posts on an other thread, it is our choice if we prefer to enjoy this hobby living a fairytale or simply looking straight into reality. I enjoy this hobby and I would never give it up for whatever reason but, at the same time, I always preferred reality to fairytales since when I was 9 years old.

I have read with interest the previous discussion and agree with most of it. Not much to add, so I will just report my visit to Arabella yesterday evening.

Arrived around 8 am, very quiet. 5-6 punters, about 12 girls. Paid my 90 euros for 2 sessions, was shown around by a tall german girl, Sandra, who speaks a bit of english.

There was absolutely nothing to eat, and hardly anything to drink (just juice and coffee). So, remember to eat before going.

Club has already been described, it's quite small, and therefore cosy and friendly atmosphere. Girls are naked, sitted on sofas and smile at you, but you have to approach them.

There are smallpictures of them on the bar, with their name and some indication of their services: One says: "Ich malle alles" (I do everything) But it is Michelle, a tall 40+ totally unattractive German Lady. Other say, in German: "everything, but anal, and CIM". Other says:" speciality: anal". Other says speciality: CIM. But it is sometimes difficult to recognize the girls from their picture.

Most of the girls were Romanain / Bulgarian, relatively young, some very chubby, some very slim, so quite a good choice. But they do not speak anything but their own language. In addition. 2 germans, Sandra and Michelle, and one Nigerian, Sylvia, who speak english.

I had my first session with a Roumanian, forgot her name. Quite chubby, big natural breasts. Nice BBBJ on the couch, and Ok fuck in the room. She was advertised as everything but anal. Offered AO.

Then I went with Sylvia,"chocolate" Nigerian / Brazilian girl, essentially because I wanted some social times. Nice slim body, very friendly, superficial kisser, good BBBJ. She was advertised as " speciality: CIM". In the room, good hugging, DATY, but I could feel that she was not much into the sex. She said she only fuck covered. Finally she gave me a very good bbj with CIM.

Conclusion: this is what you may call a "lowcost" FKK. Fucking 2 girls for 90 euros, with CIM, COB included, is really cheap, and the service is by no means less good than in a major FKK. To get the same service in, say Palace, I would have paid more than 200 Euros. But this is not a place to hang on for very long, not much to do between sessions, and little if any social time.

Interestingly, it seems that AO is only offered by the Romanian / Bulgarian girls. And that points to what was discussed in the previous posts. Those girls have probably less choice than the germans or the Nigerian. So, yes, I agree that, if given the choice, they would prefer covered fuck.

[QUOTE=Dreams; 1402944]I have read with interest the previous discussion and agree with most of it. Not much to add, so I will just report my visit to Arabella yesterday evening.

Arrived around 8 am, .[/QUOTE]I meant 8 PM.

Nice post Optimist.

I'm also an occasional visitor to these clubs. I shall probably visit again in April, maybe checking out the newer one also. They're not for everyone but I've been impressed (and maybe lucky) overall with service levels. As you say AO is available, but not compulsory. I usually stay for 2 well chosen sessions. The 3 session option is priced to tempt, but there is just not enough to do at these clubs between sessions for me and I get bored waiting for recovery for session 3. Oh, to be young again.

[QUOTE=Optimist;1402432]If you want some fun with intelligent girls at these clubs try Aida at Venus or Angie at Grimberg[/QUOTE]Is Aida the very attractive slim and tall model-like girl in Venus?

Do both of these girls provide AO?

Ed Setra.

I'm also only an occasional visitor to Germany

Aida at Venus is tall, slim but quite broadly built. She has a striking face which I like but which another monger said was a touch androgynous : I think she could be described as model like. Her English is good and her sex is well above the standard FKK offering. She is a touch older than some and is settled in her life so perhaps she has the combination of enjoying sex (even being a bit wild) and being responsible and mature in her mind. She will do AO if you want but anal is always covered.

Angie is (I think) still at Grimberg. One of the liveliest girls I have ever met, and astonishing public sex and DFK even when you are at the Theke after the session. She literally nearly knocked me over with her DFK. Again her service is far beyond the normal in FKKs and she is mature in her mind. Not sure if sh eis still there - if anyone knows I'd love to here as she is (for me) worth the diversion. I think she only does AO-lite or covered.

As for number of sessions. Given the price structure I always go for three sessions as, even if I'm not physically up to three pops, it gives the girls a bit of easy money to have a talk / music sharing / photosharing session and it makes a nice atmosphere. They remember.

Indi. Again thank you for your kind words. I look forward to you getting the PM facility. You ask why a girl with a brain and good job might make a late start into this career. Well, for one worker at least it was because it was a more honest, productive, and emotionally rewarding career than running a public sector organisation. Every story is different.

As for fairy stories, I agree. But one time I was very taken aback when a girl demanded I tell her a fairy story. I could not deny a request from such a beseeching pair of eyes so for the first time in my life I told a fairy story which she then told to her offspring.

[QUOTE=Optimist; 1403193]Aida at Venus is tall, slim but quite broadly built. She has a striking face which I like but which another monger said was a touch androgynous :

Angie is (I think) still at Grimberg. One of the liveliest girls I have ever met, and astonishing public sex and DFK even when you are at the Theke after the session. She literally nearly knocked me over with her DFK. Again her service is far beyond the normal in FKKs and she is mature in her mind. Not sure if sh eis still there. If anyone knows I'd love to here as she is (for me) worth the diversion. I think she only does AO-lite or covered.[/QUOTE]Aida.

I still think she has that androdynous look with rugby shoulders. There is nothing model about her except for her height.

Angie.

Not my type, but she is cream pie city. Seen her many times banging away on the couches, stairway & etc. All the guys busted nuts inside her. She gives the total PSE, but a bit rough around the edges for my taste.

Thanks for the correction about Angie. Have you seen her recently? Rough round the edges. I found her to be sweet! How perceptions vary. Mind you I did book her for three sessions in a space of two hours, and during that time her persona calmed down, even eventually spending half hour in and outside the sauna chatting

Aida - yes you need to be a man to tackle those shoulders;) But I still think she is slim and attractive in a slightly unusual way

[QUOTE=Optimist; 1403397]Thanks for the correction about Angie. Have you seen her recently? Rough round the edges. I found her to be sweet! How perceptions vary. Mind you I did book her for three sessions in a space of two hours, and during that time her persona calmed down, even eventually spending half hour in and outside the sauna chatting.

Aida. Yes you need to be a man to tackle those shoulders. But I still think she is slim and attractive in a slightly unusual way[/QUOTE]what's up Optimist,

Angie,

I meant she looks kind of rough, but totally agree she's a sweetie. I have never sessioned with her (seen her around for over a year) , but she smiles, waves hi then asks when my friend is going to visit. They both have an interesting connection. She was at Grimberg in late Jan, but I have not been there recently as Alice & Bianca have moved around.

Aida.

She is tall & slim for her height. I just cannot get past the 'This Is SPARTA! ' look.

[QUOTE=Optimist;1403193]Aida at Venus is tall, slim but quite broadly built. She has a striking face which I like but which another monger said was a touch androgynous[/QUOTE]Thanks for that. I must be mistaken, or maybe I have latent attractions for the angrogynous look. I draw the line at rugby players though.

[QUOTE=Optimist;1403193]As for number of sessions. Given the price structure I always go for three sessions as, even if I'm not physically up to three pops, it gives the girls a bit of easy money to have a talk / music sharing / photosharing session and it makes a nice atmosphere. They remember.[/QUOTE]Agreed, I sometimes do this too.

[QUOTE=Optimist;1403197]Indi. Again thank you for your kind words. I look forward to you getting the PM facility. You ask why a girl with a brain and good job might make a late start into this career. Well, for one worker at least it was because it was a more honest, productive, and emotionally rewarding career than running a public sector organisation. Every story is different.[/QUOTE]My question was retoric because the reason of it in the cases I know wasn't an emotionally rewarded carreer but something that could be summarize in what one wife of mine once told me (with tears in her eyes)"My life is ruined". She had a late start not exactly on the basis of her free choice and will. But then, what you write remembers me that every story is different and there are also reasonably positive stories around!

[QUOTE=Optimist; 1403193].

As for number of sessions. Given the price structure I always go for three sessions as, even if I'm not physically up to three pops, it gives the girls a bit of easy money to have a talk / music sharing / photosharing session and it makes a nice atmosphere. They remember.[/QUOTE]You don't have to choose the number of sessions on arrival. You pay 60 euros at arrival, which include one session. Then you pay 30 euros after each additionnal session. At least that was the system in place yesterday and day before at both Arabella and Villa venus.

As for Aida, if all rugby players give similar sessions, I may frequent more often the rugby lockers.

[QUOTE=Dreams;1403539]You don't have to choose the number of sessions on arrival. You pay 60 euros at arrival, which include one session. Then you pay 30 euros after each additionnal session. At least that was the system in place yesterday and day before at both Arabella and Villa venus.[/QUOTE]It seems to vary from time to time depending on how busy they are, day of the week, etc.

Anytime I've been to these clubs the pricing structure was based on an upfront charge (such as 1x60, 2x90, 3x110) where you decided when you arrived how many sessions you wanted.

[QUOTE=Ed Setra; 1403553]It seems to vary from time to time depending on how busy they are, day of the week, etc.

Anytime I've been to these clubs the pricing structure was based on an upfront charge (such as 1x60, 2x90, 3x110) where you decided when you arrived how many sessions you wanted.[/QUOTE]Exactly. Depends oh how busy the club is, time of day and on the receptionist's mood.

HB

[QUOTE=Hessen Bub; 1403559]Exactly. Depends oh how busy the club is, time of day and on the receptionist's mood.

HB[/QUOTE]So, suppose I take only one session, and pay 60, and therafter, I want to go with a second girl, what will happen? They refuse? They charge more?

In this scenario you'd have to buy a new card, so again 60 for one session. Or in other words, repay the entry fee.

[QUOTE=Dreams;1403988]So, suppose I take only one session, and pay 60, and therafter, I want to go with a second girl, what will happen? They refuse? They charge more?[/QUOTE]Today TF at Villa Venus charged 60E at the entrance. This included entrance fee and one session. After second and next sessions you go to the counter with the girl and TF charges another 30E.

I like this more than 120E upfront. More flexibility bur price per session is the same.

Today I was positively surprised by service level in Villa Venus again.

[QUOTE=Free Dude;1404001]In this scenario you'd have to buy a new card, so again 60 for one session. Or in other words, repay the entry fee.[/QUOTE]I never saw this happen. And rightly so, because, I would just walk out.

[QUOTE=Jymondor; 1404010]Today TF at Villa Venus charged 60E at the entrance. This included entrance fee and one session. After second and next sessions you go to the counter with the girl and TF charges another 30E.

I like this more than 120E upfront. More flexibility bur price per session is the same.

Today I was positively surprised by service level in Villa Venus again.[/QUOTE]Exactly. And agree with the positive comments.

I was at VV Tuesday and liked it enough to go back on Wednesday.

Line up was excellent, at least 50 % of the 20 girls highly attractive.

Usual stars, alina, Bianca, julia and Aida were available. But many other attractive as well. The other half, hum. Far less, I would say to be polite, but who cares about the 2-5, when you have enough 6-9. Service is excellent, those girls don't have the "diva"s attitude that many have in so called "upperclass" FKKS. They are down to earth and of course, the "all inclusive" policy avoid any discussion about extras at any time. The only thing to know is that "all inclusive" does not mean that all girls do everything. So it means that whatever she does is included in the 30 euros. So do ask the girl what she does, or does not, before going up.

It is an AO club, but does not mean that you have to do AO. On the contrary, the girls will appreciate if you ask for condom.

Finally. 3 sessions, with good service, CIM, COB, AO, anal if you so lke for 120, is a bargain, given that the line up is definitively better than I expected. No food, so eat before.

This club is now one of my favorite.

[QUOTE=Dreams;1404239]I never saw this happen. And rightly so, because, I would just walk out.[/QUOTE]But that's what I was told in my first visit to Arabella: 60€ for one session. 90€ for two. If you decide for one of these options and want a third session it will be another 60€. Same day at Grimberg it was 60€ for entry snd one session. 30€ for each additional session.

HB

[QUOTE=Dreams;1403539]You don't have to choose the number of sessions on arrival. You pay 60 euros at arrival, which include one session. Then you pay 30 euros after each additionnal session. At least that was the system in place yesterday and day before at both Arabella and Villa venus.[/QUOTE]When I visited Arabella in September last year I was asked to pay €25 entry plus prepay the first session at €30, so a total of €55. Then every session after that was €30.

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?3215-Bareback-AO-(Alles-Ohne).Flat-Rate-Clubs-Parties-and-Events&p=1334787&viewfull=1#post1334787[/url]

I had visited on a Sunday so I don't know if they have a different pricing policy operating on that day compared to other days in the week.

The websites has the 60/90/110 euro tariffs displayed but I have heard it mentioned that they sometimes vary this policy to the one that I experienced either for that particular day or for a period. I also remember last year reading a german forum (translated into English) where the owner / manager of Arabella made a post saying that for a certain period the pricing would be the one (€25 entry plus prepay the first session at €30 and then every session after that €30) that I encountered.

[QUOTE=Hessen Bub; 1404242]But that's what I was told in my first visit to Arabella: 60€ for one session. 90€ for two. If you decide for one of these options and want a third session it will be another 60€. Same day at Grimberg it was 60€ for entry snd one session. 30€ for each additional session.

HB[/QUOTE]Well, that seems a bizarre way of doing business. I guess we should all insist that they keep the most logical way, that is entry plus one for a price, and then pay per session.

It would be to the detriment of the girl if I was to walk away instead of making her win her precious token because the Theke charges me 60 instead of 30.

But so far, it never happened to me, so I will always pretend I did not know.

[QUOTE=Hessen Bub;1404242]Same day at Grimberg it was 60€ for entry snd one session. 30€ for each additional session.[/QUOTE]Might effectively be correct, but the website says:

Free entry. 1x 60 €; 2x 90 €; 3x 110 €.
So if any additional session is 30 €, then the only offer that saves you anything is the 3x-offer, saving you 10 €.
[url]http://grimbergsauna.com/1.htm[/url]

They might as well do: 30 € entrance fee; 30 € per half-hour-session; 80 € for 3 sessions.

[QUOTE=SwingerLover; 1404716]the website says:

Free entry. 1x 60 €; 2x 90 €; 3x 110 €.

So if any additional session is 30 €, then the only offer that saves you anything is the 3x-offer, saving you 10 €.

[url]http://grimbergsauna.com/1.htm[/url]

They might as well do: 30 € entrance fee; 30 € per half-hour-session; 80 € for 3 sessions.[/QUOTE]The best scenario for the club is if someone buys a ticket and then find out that they want more sex than they originally anticipated. They will then have to buy another ticket and so pay the entrance fee again.

It is in their financial interests to keep this inflexible arrangement rather than make it pay-as-you-go.

[QUOTE=Hessen Bub;1404242]Same day at Grimberg it was 60€ for entry snd one session. 30€ for each additional session.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Myrrh;1404758]more sex than they originally anticipated. They will then have to buy another ticket and so pay the entrance fee again.[/QUOTE]Something doesn't fit here. If you enter there (for free!) and take the 1 session for 60 € and then want another, that would be another 60 € according to Myrrh's post and only another 30 € according to Bub's. Please clarify!

[QUOTE=SwingerLover;1404763]Something doesn't fit here. If you enter there (for free!) and take the 1 session for 60 € and then want another, that would be another 60 € according to Myrrh's post and only another 30 € according to Bub's. Please clarify![/QUOTE]When I was there it was 60€ entry including one session. Each additonal session was another 30€. May vary from week to week.

HB

[QUOTE=SwingerLover;1404763]Something doesn't fit here. If you enter there (for free!) and take the 1 session for 60 € and then want another, that would be another 60 € according to Myrrh's post and only another 30 € according to Bub's. Please clarify![/QUOTE]They may say entry is for free but in reality the 1 session for 60 € includes the entry fee of 30 €.

You can never know for sure before you go in whether you are going to find the girls there attractive or whether you are still going to be randy after your first session. So it would be best for the punter if they could just pay an entry fee of 30 € and then decide once they were inside how many sessions they wanted.

The FKK Arabella website makes it clear that once you have used up the number of sessions on your ticket then you start all over again and buy a new ticket. It makes no mention of just paying 30 € more for further sessions. I suppose you could argue with them but I suspect that Germans like being exact and sticking to the rules.

Sorry, Myrrh, we were talking about Grimbergsauna here, not Arabella! Maybe that's where the discrepancy comes from.

[QUOTE=SwingerLover;1404795]Sorry, Myrrh, we were talking about Grimbergsauna here, not Arabella! Maybe that's where the discrepancy comes from.[/QUOTE]OK, but I thought that these sort of places, Arabella / VV / Grimberg and so on tended to operate pretty much the same kind of policies and enforce them in the same way.

Some of them have the same management team.

[QUOTE=Myrrh; 1404804]OK, but I thought that these sort of places, Arabella / VV / Grimberg and so on tended to operate pretty much the same kind of policies and enforce them in the same way.

Some of them have the same management team.[/QUOTE]Still on the same day I found two different pricing models at Arabella and Grimberg.

HB

Today (Sunday) I arrived to FKK Alina at about 4 PM. I spotted too many parked cars around. TF apologized that she has no lockers available and pointed on the empty board with the key hangers. I looked around. Ambiance is similar to V-Venus & Arabella. All sofas occupied by the mongers. Men were sitting two on one sofa. I saw 5 or 6 girls. Not attractive at all. I assume that all doable girls working in the rooms. I concluded that this is my luck that she had no single key left for me.

No regrets! I am renting very nice two-door loaded Audi 3. Nice weather, driving is enjoyable. In 20 minus I pushed bell button at V-Venus. The picture is just opposite. Very empty place. But girls are familiar. Average session with Lisa and as usually unforgettable with Aida.

Day before I was in Arabella. The only two things better in Arabella. This is TF and more private entrance that is not so open to the street. TF is tall, stylish woman with bearable English. Everything else is better in V-Venus. I don't see any reason switch from V-Venus I visit on regular base to Arabella or Alina.

One moment at Arabella. After first-session-shower I sat down on the sofa. I did not see girls purse on the floor beside. It was no towel on the sofa girls usually keep to indicate that place is occupied. So I did not know that this sofa is occupied. In a few moments young and fairly attractive girl approached and sat down beside me. I was a bit surprised that she sat right on the sofa without towel. This is not typical for the girls. As she sits she started hugging and caressing me. TF watched this for a couple of minutes and than called the girl and sent her to laundry room for fresh towels. It seems that she watches whats going on in the main room. I consider this moment as a positive characteristic of Arabella.

[QUOTE=Jymondor; 1408304]Today (Sunday) I arrived to FKK Alina at about 4 PM. I spotted too many parked cars around. TF apologized that she has no lockers available and pointed on the empty board with the key hangers. I looked around. Ambiance is similar to V-Venus & Arabella. All sofas occupied by the mongers. Men were sitting two on one sofa. I saw 5 or 6 girls. Not attractive at all. I assume that all doable girls working in the rooms. I concluded that this is my luck that she had no single key left for me.

No regrets! I am renting very nice two-door loaded Audi 3. Nice weather, driving is enjoyable. In 20 minus I pushed bell button at V-Venus. The picture is just opposite. Very empty place. But girls are familiar. Average session with Lisa and as usually unforgettable with Aida.

Day before I was in Arabella. The only two things better in Arabella. This is TF and more private entrance that is not so open to the street. TF is tall, stylish woman with bearable English. Everything else is better in V-Venus. I don't see any reason switch from V-Venus I visit on regular base to Arabella or Alina.

One moment at Arabella. After first-session-shower I sat down on the sofa. I did not see girls purse on the floor beside. It was no towel on the sofa girls usually keep to indicate that place is occupied. So I did not know that this sofa is occupied. In a few moments young and fairly attractive girl approached and sat down beside me. I was a bit surprised that she sat right on the sofa without towel. This is not typical for the girls. As she sits she started hugging and caressing me. TF watched this for a couple of minutes and than called the girl and sent her to laundry room for fresh towels. It seems that she watches whats going on in the main room. I consider this moment as a positive characteristic of Arabella.[/QUOTE]Agree totlly about V Venus superior to Arabella.

Slightly bigger place, more girls to choose from. And yes, Aida is a sure bet.

After my first, failed attempt at a partytreff (see report in the Krefeld Bareback AO Parties thread) , I headed immediately for Villa Venus. What a breath of fresh air. When I rang the bell a pretty young girl with nipples that could poke your eyes out met me at the door. A Venn diagram of the beauty and sexiness of the girls at VV and the Krefeld party would show almost no overlap.

The desk woman doesn't speak English so she ask the very large (but quite charming) German man she was talking to to explain the layout.

The only hard part of VV was making the selection. But I decided to just sit down and take a chance. I sat by Maya (I never saw her name written, so I may have it wrong). She wasn't the prettiest girl in the room. She is small, with a nice smile (but not pretty teeth) and tits with a slight sag to them. But her ass and body were quite enticing. She didn't speak English, but I was in no mood to quibble. Soon she was kissing me like a long-lost boyfriend. And she has some neck-licking talents that had me ready for a room. Maya was in no rush, but we finally went upstairs. In the room I fell in love for an hour. It may have been my most enjoyable pay sex experience. In the room she was everything the Krefeld girls had not been: erotic, loving, attentive. He body responses were completely believable. Her pussy got soaking wet, she squeezed my arms at the appropriate time while I was licking her, and in every way gave me the hour of my life. She also had a cute giggle in response to my words that communicated that while she didn't understand the words, she did get the sentiment.

So that was the good, the very good about VV. What was bizarre was the pricing structure. I still don't understand it. When I entered I paid €60. €30 to enter and €30 for my first 30-minute session. There was a whiteboard sign that said something like "eine stunde, everything included €120". Mixing my languages a bit. I didn't understand what it applied to, but I assumed it was some special thing outside the normal price structure.

When I came down from my hour with Maya, the desk woman asked for another €60, and pointed to the sign. I was a bit dumbfounded. I had already paid €30 for the first half hour, which meant that the second half hour cost €60.

Later I talked to michela, who spoke English, and she confirmed that that was indeed the pricing structure. After talking to michela for awhile, I decided to have a session with her. When we were talking she asked if I came from Holland, I said no, USA. Here eyes lit up as she rhapsodized over NY, which she knows only from film. But it was a nice change from the typical reactions we Americans get these days. In the room Michela continued to be charming. And her body responses during sex were just as believable as Maya's. Either they enjoyed it or the girls at VV have a great acting coach. I did keep track of the time to avoid the 1-hour surcharge. I confirmed again with michela that if we stayed one hour it would be €120, which in that case would have made the second half hour €90. Bizarre.

I'd appreciate it if one of you German speakers could get an explanation of their pricing structure.

Thanks. Pac

[QUOTE=PacificRim; 1409466]I was a bit dumbfounded.

I'd appreciate it if one of you German speakers could get an explanation of their pricing structure.[/QUOTE]I must say I'm experiencing a similar sensation just now; regarding the dumbfounded-part.

On the website it says: "Half an hour Wedding Night, all extras included. 1*60 €, 2* 90 €, 3* 110 €." Suggests to me a price structure like at Grimbergsauna, meaning 60 € for one half-hour-session; 90 € for 2 sessions ans 110 € for 3 sessions.

After reading your report, I can only conclude that it means 60 € for the first half hour with another 60 € for each additional half hour, unless you pay the 90 or 100 € right upfront. [url]http://fkk-venus.com/site/1.html[/url]

So you propably would have had to pay 110 € upfront to get three half-hour sessions for that price. It's a good thing that you had so much fun that you still considered it worth it.

I went back the next night. The same signs were up. I paid 60 for the entry and the first half hour in the room. When I took Michaela up FLR another go round, I stayed 30 min and paid €30 after the session. I don't know what's going on, but I'm not going for an hour until I get a clarification.

By the way, I have a bit of a crush on Michaela.

Nothing strange about the prices: management doesn't want girls to be in the room too long. It's pretty busy and if it where 30 for each half an hour, my two half hours with Michaela would have probably been 2 hours each and my session with Alina at least one hour. I did see some guys who got caught out by this pricing and there was a retard who spent 3 hours in the room and thought his 60 entrance would cover this 'one time spass'. I could see a bit of a crush developing with Michaela as well, what a sweetheart.

ETA it is indeed 30 for the first half an hour and 90 for the second half an hour; they just want the girls back quickly.

Sorry I didn't understand well the price system of VV.

When you arrived in the VV you need to pay the entrance in advance or you have the possibility to stay inside the club, to see all the girls and later to choose 1 or 2 half hour?

If I have to pay: if I paid 60€: I paid the entrance and a half hour?

But if I paid 90€: I have two half hours with 2 girls or 1 hour with 1 girl?

Right?

Thanks

[QUOTE=Farfally7; 1411389]When you arrived in the VV you need to pay the entrance in advance or you have the possibility to stay inside the club, to see all the girls and later to choose 1 or 2 half hour?

If I have to pay: if I paid 60€: I paid the entrance and a half hour?

But if I paid 90€: I have two half hours with 2 girls or 1 hour with 1 girl?

Right?

Thanks[/QUOTE]Wrong. If you pay €90 you can spend a half hour with each of two different girls. But if you stay a full hour with one girl, you pay a total of 120 for the hour with the one girl.

The three times I was there last week, they didn't give the option to pay 90 at the start. You pay 60 when you enter. That covers entry fee and a half hour with one girl. If you stay an hour as I did, the thenkefrau asks you for an additional 60 on the spot. When I went for another half hour session later, she asked for 30 when I came down with the girl.

Free Dude's explanation makes sense, they are trying to rush you through. It's the McDonald's approach to an FKK, but in my experience they serve Kobe beef.

Free Dude. Did someone give you that explanation for their approach? Or are you guessing based on your experience and the only logical explanation you could come up with?

[QUOTE=PacificRim;1411629]The three times I was there last week, they didn't give the option to pay 90 at the start. You pay 60 when you enter. That covers entry fee and a half hour with one girl. If you stay an hour as I did, the thenkefrau asks you for an additional 60 on the spot. When I went for another half hour session later, she asked for 30 when I came down with the girl.[/QUOTE]Same for me: I had to pay 60 upfront, this included a 30min session. The next session I had I paid in cash at the reception, was another 30EUR. The cost for 1 hour with one girl was never mentioned. I would have protested if I'd been 60min and they would have demanded another 60EUR for the second half hour. What if you take a girl for 30min, leave the room for 5min, pay her and take her back to the room? 60 or 90 EUR for the two 30min sessions?

HB

[QUOTE=Hessen Bub; 1411644]Same for me: I had to pay 60 upfront, this included a 30min session. The next session I had I paid in cash at the reception, was another 30EUR. The cost for 1 hour with one girl was never mentioned. I would have protested if I'd been 60min and they would have demanded another 60EUR for the second half hour. What if you take a girl for 30min, leave the room for 5min, pay her and take her back to the room? 60 or 90 EUR for the two 30min sessions?

HB[/QUOTE]When I was there they also had a whiteboard sign announcing the €120 for one hour, everything included. (As best I could tell that's what it said.). As I said earlier, I just thought it referred to some special deal. For example, Pay €120 and have at it with as many girls as you could squeeze in during the hour. The only support for this lame theory is that the TF wrote down my time of entry on the wrist card.

The main reason I didn't protest is that the TF doesn't speak English. She pointed to the whiteboard as support for her position. The secondary reason was I had just had one of the best sessions of my life and I couldn't put together a simple declarative sentence in any language.

Of course, your 5 minute break hypothetical is precisely why I found the whole thing so bizarre. And I think it would probably just be another €30 in that case. But damned if I know.

Nobody ever told me, but the sign is pretty clear and the reasoning came up by talking to some regulars. I did see one guy get caught out, and not having to pay because the girl hadn't told him. I think this can't happen too often, otherwise girls would conveniently forget this all the time and spend hours up there. I got the distinct feeling some girls weren't maximizing their zimmers and were happy to 'sleep' in the room for another ten minutes after sex, and I didn't manage to get any girl upstairs within 20 minutes of sitting down next to her. The usual kissing presales, but also just cuddling up and talking to friends / smoking / drinking red bull / etc.

For which clubs does the 1 hour rule apply? All of the three? Are there signs up in all three clubs?

HB

Haven't seen it at arabella and I also think Alina doesn't have this rule; in these places you have to decide on the number of sessions beforehand; so if you spend more than a hour and a half, you need to buy a new card (and the club gets another entry fee). No clue about Grimberg.

Is it just me or is anyone else completely bamboozled by the discussions / explanations provided by the last few posts?

I have only ever visited FKK Arabella of the clubs mentioned and found the pricing policy there daft to say the least. Normally there you buy a ticket for either 60/90/110 euros for entrance and 1/2/3 30 minute sessions. However on some other days they have a different policy where you pay an entrance of 30 euros and then 30 euros for each 30 minute session.

For Villa Venus club entry the discussion seems to be saying that you pay 30 euros for each 30 minute session but 60 euros for each extra 30 minutes over your initial 30 minute session rather than the to be expected 30 euros. So double the rate for extending your session!

WTF? How does this make sense?

People have been justifying it by saying that the club needs the girls to return back quickly because they are in demand. But why don't they just charge you 30 euros for each extra 30 minutes that you spend, as this is what the girl would have earned anyway if she went with another customer?

OK, one guy who is keen on a girl may decide to keep her tied up for long periods of time but as long as he is paying what the girl would have earned anyway then what is the problem that the club has with this?

Some guys may get annoyed that some popular girl may get tied up for hours on end with one customer but if the customer is paying as he goes along then that is his privilege, no? It's tough luck, he got there first! If you are that keen on a particular girl then get there early and tie her up for as long as you want (as long as you keep paying of course).

If the club is keen for a girl to be busy with one customer for no longer than 30 minutes then you could find that a customer is forced to finish with a girl after 30 minutes and she goes back to sit around for a while because no other customers are ready to take her to the room. After some time has elapsed and the customer finds that no one else is taking her then he may decide to take her again but by this time she may have lost some time that she could have been charging had she stayed with that customer.

There is a danger for the club with this policy that customer may feel that the 'momentum' has been lost and as a result he no longer wants to take the girl to room. Whereas if there was not this interruption then he may well have continued (and kept paying).

So I just don't understand this policy. If someone has already paid half an hour for a girl then he should have the priority to keep going (as long as he keeps paying).

One of the posts below even said that someone was charged 120 euros for one hour with a girl where he would have been charged 60 euros if there was a break between two separate 30 minute sessions.

This is just daft. As they say there's nowt as queer as some German Sauna club owner folk!

I'm not saying I agree with the policy; but it is the policy (90 for the second half hour BTW, not 60). For some reason they don't want to encourage longer sessions. I've been told that going back downstairs and up again (sometimes?) happens, but I didn't see it. Not the only weird thing; you wouldn't believe how long some of the girls take to indicate they want to go upstairs. Or how explicitly they are trying to avoid working (really quite astounding). As for the reasons, speculation is all we have. But there is a big honking sign that says an hour is 120; the girls confirm this and I've seen the Theke telling a guy he needed to pay 60 more (instead of just 60 for an hour). And this was just last weekend. Maybe it temporary because they are relatively low on girls with some having gone to Alina and Dietzenbach. Going from 3 clubs to 5, can do that to your line up.

[QUOTE=Free Dude;1411777]I'm not saying I agree with the policy; but it is the policy (90 for the second half hour BTW, not 60). For some reason they don't want to encourage longer sessions. I've been told that going back downstairs and up again (sometimes?) happens, but I didn't see it. Not the only weird thing; you wouldn't believe how long some of the girls take to indicate they want to go upstairs. Or how explicitly they are trying to avoid working (really quite astounding). As for the reasons, speculation is all we have. But there is a big honking sign that says an hour is 120; the girls confirm this and I've seen the Theke telling a guy he needed to pay 60 more (instead of just 60 for an hour). And this was just last weekend. Maybe it temporary because they are relatively low on girls with some having gone to Alina and Dietzenbach. Going from 3 clubs to 5, can do that to your line up.[/QUOTE]I can see from the point of view that if there are only a few really attractive girls with the others all being fodder then these attractive girls could get tied up all the time. A customer may stop going to the club if he finds that he is not able get any time at all with any of these attractive girls. The club does not want to lose customers.

Also, the club's policy may force guys to spread their money among different girls rather than spending it on only a few.

It's slowly making sense (I think?).

But if you get charged 90 euros for the second half an hour then by that reckoning if you stray 5 or 10 minutes over the 30 then you should get charged 15 or 30 euros.

I would have thought that the girls' best tactic would be to try and talk guys into spending more than 30 minutes as that way they make more profit for the club.

Myrrh, your discussion below is entirely too logical for VV's policies. I'm not sure any of our explanations have explained their reasoning. My own limited experience is that:

1. There is not a shortage of attractive women.

2. Plenty of the very attractive ones were available.

3. Yes, I agree with Free Dude, they were in no rush to get you up to a room. They were willing to kiss and fondle for long periods in the lounge area. A big contrast from the big Hessen clubs. So that doesn't seem like they are trying to rush you out.

4. I paid 120 for a one-hour session. That included 30 for entry fee. 30 for the first half hour, and 60 for the second half hour. I was informed that if I wanted to take another girl for an hour it would also be 120, which would make the second half hour cost 90, because there would not be another entry fee.

None of this really makes sense to me, but it is what happened to me.

Hi guys,

Is it possible to get to Villa Venus via public transport? Ie bus / tram from the nearest train stations I think the nearest train station is Oberhausen.

Thanks in advance

Easy, from the center take tram 903 to Amsterdammerstrasse. It's then about 2km walking, or a bit shorter if you take a shortcut. The easiest route is tp go up Amstrdammerstrasse, at some point the road bends to the right and a couple of hundred meters you have a cross section where you go right on the Conrad Adenauer Strasse. You just continue here until you see the club on your left (the house with an iron gate).

[QUOTE=Myrrh;1411774]OK, one guy who is keen on a girl may decide to keep her tied up for long periods of time but as long as he is paying what the girl would have earned anyway then what is the problem that the club has with this?[/QUOTE]Who knows? Maybe this is an excellent way to pluck some pigeons who aren't aware of this policy?

[QUOTE=Myrrh;1411782]IBut if you get charged 90 euros for the second half an hour then by that reckoning if you stray 5 or 10 minutes over the 30[/QUOTE]And likewise take the opportunity to loot someone who isn't aware of the time while having fun?

[QUOTE=Free Dude;1411878]Easy, from the center take tram 903 to Amsterdammerstrasse. It's then about 2km walking, or a bit shorter if you take a shortcut. The easiest route is tp go up Amstrdammerstrasse, at some point the road bends to the right and a couple of hundred meters you have a cross section where you go right on the Conrad Adenauer Strasse. You just continue here until you see the club on your left (the house with an iron gate).[/QUOTE]Free Dude- thanks for the reply when you say centre do you mean Duisburg? And is it the same tram you have to catch on way back.

Thanks

[QUOTE=PacificRim; 1411791]1. There is not a shortage of attractive women.

2. Plenty of the very attractive ones were available.[/QUOTE]Attractive or very attractive compared to what? Oase, GT, Palace, World, Living Room? Or compared to the streetwalkers in Romania? Sorry guys, but 95% of the girls working at Arabella and Grimberg are in the range of 1-5 out of 10 points. They would hardly make any money at the clubs mentioned before. That's why they are working at Arabella or Grimberg and are excepting 30 EUR / 30min including all extras and BB. Let's face the facts.

HB

[QUOTE=Hessen Bub; 1411996]Attractive or very attractive compared to what? Oase, GT, Palace, World, Living Room? Or compared to the streetwalkers in Romania? Sorry guys, but 95% of the girls working at Arabella and Grimberg are in the range of 1-5 out of 10 points. They would hardly make any money at the clubs mentioned before. That's why they are working at Arabella or Grimberg and are excepting 30 EUR / 30min including all extras and BB. Let's face the facts.

HB[/QUOTE]I haven't been to Grimberg or Arabella, but at VV at least one third were as good as any I have seen at Oase. Keeping in mind that tastes vary, I was more attracted to many of them than girls I have been with at Oase or Colosseum. I've been to DV-Raubach, and VV is nothing like that.

There are many things I can't explain about VV, including why such attractive girls work there. And my timing may have been an anomaly, but when I was there there were many young, gravity-defying Romanians running around. It's not a big club, so the absolute numbers of 8 to 9s is higher at Oase, but not the percentages. And there were none of the old MILFs that I have seen at Oase.

[QUOTE=Hessen Bub; 1411996]Attractive or very attractive compared to what? Oase, GT, Palace, World, Living Room? Or compared to the streetwalkers in Romania? Sorry guys, but 95% of the girls working at Arabella and Grimberg are in the range of 1-5 out of 10 points. They would hardly make any money at the clubs mentioned before. That's why they are working at Arabella or Grimberg and are excepting 30 EUR / 30min including all extras and BB. Let's face the facts.

HB[/QUOTE]Definitely not 1-5 especially in V-Venus. I saw there three-four girls under 5, but still young. I saw uglier in World for example. Most of girls are between 5 and 7, two maybe 8. But I agree they would not survive in Big Hesse 5. Not because of appearance but because of communication skills. However I cannot complain in service level in V-Venus. In average it is better in Big Hesse 5. DFK. Is standard, no annoying attempts to upsell, because there is nothing to upsell.

[QUOTE=Jymondor;1412029]Definitely not 1-5 especially in V-Venus. I saw there three-four girls under 5, but still young. I saw uglier in World for example. Most of girls are between 5 and 7, two maybe 8. But I agree they would not survive in Big Hesse 5. Not because of appearance but because of communication skills. However I cannot complain in service level in V-Venus. In average it is better in Big Hesse 5. DFK. Is standard, no annoying attempts to upsell, because there is nothing to upsell.[/QUOTE]What I saw at Arabella and Grimberg was in the range of 1-5. Not to say that there's no 5s or lower at Oase or World. But the majority is above 5 and there's enough girls in the range of 8-10. Sure, prices are much lower (30€ for 30min including anal and CIM which would be 200€ at World) , but what you pay is what you get. If you stick to the standard 30min service it's only 20€ difference I am happy to pay for superior looks). Arabella and Gromnerg Were not for me, I need good looking girls with good service and no upsell. So World, Oase and Sharks do it for me. Maybe Villa Venus does have the better lookimg girls.

HB

I have also found that quite a number of the girls in these clubs are in the normal FKK looks range (unlike at Dolce Vita Raubach in my experience). Ok. I have definitely never seen a real top notch looker (as HB says if that is important these clubs are not ideal). The service is on average as good as at any FKK (limited mainly by the limited session length, limited language skills, and amateurishness of some girls) However this can lead to a particular sort of nice experience which is rarely found in a high level FKK. So it may be premature to write these clubs off (and you can use a condom) even though they aren't really comparable to the fine facilities and views available at World

I really couldn't have said it much better than Optimist has. Definitely less pretty girls (in general) than the big clubs (Oase, World, GT, LR, etc) , but always a few options and sometimes a girl that makes you go: what the hell is she doing here! Sex can be awesome if you have a bit of fun with the (less experienced) girls first; and I can honestly say some of my funnest zimmers this year have been in these clubs (just because of the attitude).

What the tram is concerned: from Duisburg center yes (best to get on at Duisburg Hbf, which is a couple of hundred meters to the right after you exit the station).

Hello Group, Few weeks back the message on the board covered that VV was having some cars that were being damaged. Is there an update and has this past. Thanks

So just to clarify, if there is a girl there that you like and you want to maximise your time with her whilst keep the cost down, then you take her for half an hour and then take a break for (fill in the blanks) x number of minutes. Then if she is still free because no one else has claimed her and willing then you can take her again and again and maybe again?

If there are several attractive girls at Villa Venus then there is no problem as it would be like choosing different chocolates from the box. However if not then it would be useful to know whether you can get repeat service with the same girl or whether the girls or the owners would block this or charge you at the higher rate as if you had continued with the same girl for more than 30 minutes with no break at all.

[QUOTE=Strikesfun;1412170]Hello Group, Few weeks back the message on the board covered that VV was having some cars that were being damaged. Is there an update and has this past. Thanks[/QUOTE]Was there last Sunday and there was broken glass in many of the nearby parking bays although I didn't actually see any cars with broken windows. I was there at 10:00 and my main concern was to avoid puncturing my tyres but strange that noone has got round to clearing up all the glass.

I was expecting fairly slim pickings given the hour but there was a surprisingly good selection when the girls started turning up at around 10:30

[QUOTE=Hessen Bub; 1412077]What I saw at Arabella and Grimberg was in the range of 1-5. Not to say that there's no 5s or lower at Oase or World. But the majority is above 5 and there's enough girls in the range of 8-10. Sure, prices are much lower (30€ for 30min including anal and CIM which would be 200€ at World) , but what you pay is what you get. If you stick to the standard 30min service it's only 20€ difference I am happy to pay for superior looks). Arabella and Gromnerg Were not for me, I need good looking girls with good service and no upsell. So World, Oase and Sharks do it for me. Maybe Villa Venus does have the better lookimg girls.

HB[/QUOTE]Definitely lineup in V-Venus is way better than in Arabella and what I quickly saw in Alina. Cannot say about Grimsberg. But please do not expect too much from extras in V-Venus. Not to many girls perform CIM or anal. Aida does anal but covered only. I preferred AOFS rather than covered anal. Bulgarian Ella does anal but in CG only. Another (forgot the name) keeps the hand around her anus to restrict penetration. But no regrets I realize that AO anal and / or CIM included into 30E session is way beyond industry standards.

As I mentioned already V-Venus cannot be compared to Big Hesse clubs. This is not place where you can spend all day. This is just cheap f*king house.

[QUOTE=Strikesfun;1412170]Hello Group, Few weeks back the message on the board covered that VV was having some cars that were being damaged. Is there an update and has this past. Thanks[/QUOTE]This is a copy of private message I sent to colleague answering similar question:

I read the warning in this thread. I park my car about 200 m away in front of some truck place. Usually few cars or trucks there and I squeeze between them.

I hide my GPS and suction-cup holder into glove box. I leave trunk cover open (normally I rent hatchback Audi A3) making clearly visible that car is empty. So far had no troubles.

VV parking. This problem seems to be sporadic and not a one off. I don't know how often it happens but this is the fourth occasion I have read about in about four months. I have no idea if it is only in nightime hours or not but I assume the glass is left over from problems the previous night. It could be vandalism, or political (in some cities there have been in recent years instances of "anti-capitalist" attacks on cars) or theft

I've been asked in a private message whether I drove or took public transportation to V. Venus, because of the break in reports.

I drove my personal car and parked it on the street three times. Once 1600-2000, once 2000-2300 and once 1000-1100. No problems or evidence of problems. (I didn't notice any broken glass). I do not have German tags on the car. I did not mention this earlier because lack of a break in only indicates that they don't break into every car every time.

Pac

Thanks to Free dude for the info on transport.

Took train to Duisberg then Tram to Amsterdammstrasse club is about 25 mins walk.

Entry 60 euros including one 30 min session and then 30 euros per session. On some days they do 3 sessions for 110 euros that depends on the number of customers they have so pricing structure changes without any notice.

Decent size club, plenty of rooms, very little food and drinks.

13 girls present 6 girls could easily make it to a top FKK.

All girls did AO apart from 2 I was told and 5 girls did anal.

I do not remember the names of all the girls present but do remember the names of the ones I had a session with.

I will rate them with their service not their looks as we all have different tastes.

Session 1 Liza (Romanian) 8/10.

Session 2 Andrea (Romanian) 8/10.

Session 3 Mona (Hungarian) 10/10.

Amazing girls non rushed sessions total GFE all do DFK amazing BBBJ then many different positions they all offered AO, Mona loves anal especially switching from back to front a very filthy girl just the way I like them she spent 5 mins licking my back hole. What a turn ON that was for me! I was in the room with Mona for 45 minutes but still paid 30 euros.

Will definitely repeat.

Visited VV 3 times end of March & drove away each time due to the broken car glass everywhere. Ran into 2 Germans I know from these AO clubs & they just aviod VV. These guys are well known posters on a certain German Forum.

Not really sure if the glass was from the previous night or what, but all 3 times glass in different locations.

Xplorer. Nice report thank you.

Parking. Maybe my last comment gave an unfair impression. Like PacificRim says about himself, he has parked several times with no evidence or experience of problems

Is this just a bad neighborhood where car break ins are higher than average or is VV being "targeted"?

[QUOTE=Banana Boi;1416368]Is this just a bad neighborhood where car break ins are higher than average or is VV being "targeted"?[/QUOTE]Even though I took public transport to the club I was aware of this problem so I did ask a couple of girls who said they drove to the club on a daily basis and parked outside on the main road and never experienced any problems one said as long as you don't block any entrances etc there shouldn't be a problem.

[QUOTE=Banana Boi;1416368]Is this just a bad neighborhood where car break ins are higher than average or is VV being "targeted"?[/QUOTE]If I had to guess I'd say it's the neighborhood. It's industrial and out of the way. It doesn't look like a bad area, but who knows.

I ve been at VV yesterday. The neighborhood seems ok to me but beware, there is no cash machine in the vicinity and you need to go to the center of the town if you need money.

Not so much girls (about 10) and they look a little bored.

1st session with Bianca, a Dani Daniels lookalike with smaller boobs (best looking girl of the club for me). Fk on the couch, her hand reaches my cock (she even asked me if she could suck me on the couch) and we go in a room. FKs again but not deep ones, she sucks me and then we have bareback sex. I finish in CG, there is around 10 minutes left but she is distant and tidies the room. So we came back to the bar.

I met a french friend, we chat a lot, I want to with Aida (dark skin and super hot stockings) but she is nowhere to be seen. My new friend is a little disapointed about the place like me, I tell him about the club angelique where I was the day before and where the service is far more GFE. We re getting hungry and there is only apples to eat. The girls have a private room to eat pizzas. My friend goes with a yonug Romanian girl, I m still waiting for aida. He comes back, the session was rushed. Aida appears again, I wave at her and she sits next to me. We talk a little, then we kiss (DFK) and we go in a room. Aida is a better kisser than Bianca, I m more excited, she sucks me and then we have bb sex. After about 15 minutes she sucks me again but I m not so excited so she stops and says "katastrophe, tot!". Now I'm not excited anymore, I tell her we have 15 minutes left and I ask her to kiss me again while masturbating me. I get hard again and she rides me until I cum. So better session than Biancas but still rushed.

My friend feels the same about this place, we are getting hungry. I am thinking about a threesome with bianca and one of her friends (saw the two girls on a couch with a man and going in room) but whe eventually leave to club angelique where it was so much better.

So : its cheap, there are some fine looking girls but the service was rushed two times for me. Maybe I ll come back one day for a bareback threesome but nothing else.

Thanks bigbuddy. Were the girls hotter at angelique? How many girls were there?

Thanks for your report BigBuddy69. As I've reported, my experience at VV was different from yours. And even the big clubs have days when nothing seems to be going on, but I think variability is greater at smaller clubs like VV.

Another difference can just be differences in taste. I had a session with Aida, too, based on positive reports here. And I agree (with the other reports) that she gives a great session. But I knew from the start that I didn't get a spark from her. I couldn't have told you why not, but she just didn't get me in the pit of my stomach despite doing everything right. When the spark isn't there it's not easy to convince your dick that it is, and "katastrophe, tot" can be the result. But, of course, no one likes to hear it in the middle of a session, even if true.

I'd agree the girls in Angelique are hotter; Alina might just have the pretiest face of any girl I've been with (too bad her legs aren't as gazelle like as I'd prefer) , but the prices are far higher as well: assuming you want ao. 80 vs 30 for half an hour. Usually the rtc clubs have a few real lookers, but certainly not that many. I believe Michaela is now in Dietzenbach and if Alina was missing as well, I can see how the options would be limited.

At angélique thé girls are the sweetest things on earth and I'm now in love with Kati. I 've given vv a new try this morning and I had a funny ao 3some with two not so good looking girls but very enthusiastic, I'll tell you more later cause I m in a car right now.

[QUOTE=Free Dude;1418298]I'd agree the girls in Angelique are hotter[/QUOTE]BTW their Duisburg location aka "Angelique Gold" closed. This is announced on their website.

[QUOTE=Xplorer007;1416151]Entry 60 euros including one 30 min session and then 30 euros per session. On some days they do 3 sessions for 110 euros that depends on the number of customers they have so pricing structure changes without any notice.[/QUOTE]According to the homepage, session price in Villa Venus has been raised to 40€. Entry price should still be 30€.

Maybe because there is something to eat now besides apples.

By the way, I m going to relate my last trip to VV last Friday. I had to give back my car at noon so I was in a little hurry. I arrived at 10:40. Too bad, as I entered the club, the beautiful brunette with the glasses and the ponytail was leaving with a guest. There were just 4 or 5 girls available at the time. I picked Asti, BUL, blond, nice face with almond eyes but her body was not my kind. I asked her if she was ok with a threesome, she looked really surprised, she speaked to her friend Ella (BUL, blond, cute face, REALLY chubby) , Ella was ok with it, we joined Ella on her couch, and the kissing started, followed with BJ from the two girls. Then we climbed upstairs and had good sex. The two girls were enthusiastic, avid kissers, gave me goods BJ, the two rode me on CG, and we also had sex on missionary and doggie. They used the harsh paper towels on my cock everytime I switched partners (not really pleasant.) and I finished in a CIM on Ella (Asti doesn't do it). The half hour was over or nearly.

We kissed, cuddled and went down the stairs hand in hand. Actually I saw Aida and Bianca in the bathroom when we went down and I think Aida said "Katastrophe" to Bianca, not very fair of her.

I showered quickly, brought back the key, the cute brunette with the glasses and the ponytail called Asti to kiss me goodbye (what's her name BTW, she's really cute?) , and I left.

So I had more connection with these two "not so good looking" girls than with Aida and Bianca.

To sum up my experience with the VV :

There were at least 4 very good looking girls for me (Aida, Bianca, Glasses ponytail and another brunette) .3 or 4 good looking girls (good body but unremarkable face) and the others were average. There is barely nothing to eat, bad soda to drink, and it's very boring during the intersessions (you can't sit with a girl for too long without taking her to a room I think). Publick kissing and BJ was good. I prefer the long GFE sessions so for me, it's more of a "quick sex" place. I don't know if I'll come back again, especially if they raise the prices. For 40 € I prefer to go to Panthera, ACA or Club Angelique.

Sorry but iam little unfalimiar with these terms.

What does "AO" mean?

Anyway, in these clubs you have full bareback both normal and anal sex?

And you "finish" inside the girl?

Thanks in advance for answering.

[QUOTE=Dim Yann; 1420849]Sorry but iam little unfalimiar with these terms.

What does "AO" mean?

Anyway, in these clubs you have full bareback both normal and anal sex?

And you "finish" inside the girl?

Thanks in advance for answering.[/QUOTE]AO is alles ohne, meaning everything without.

Plain english sex withoth condom.

[QUOTE=Dim Yann; 1420849]Sorry but iam little unfalimiar with these terms.

What does "AO" mean?

Anyway, in these clubs you have full bareback both normal and anal sex?

And you "finish" inside the girl?

Thanks in advance for answering.[/QUOTE]It means Alles Ohne, literally everything without (Bareback Sex)

[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;1419990]Actually I have another problem with VV, I had a gonorrhea 3 days after.[/QUOTE]Have you been diagnosed by the doctor, or you think it was gonorrhea by the symptoms?

[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;1419990]Actually I have another problem with VV, I had a gonorrhea 3 days after.[/QUOTE]Don't worry gonorrhea is curable. Well at least it was (mostly) the last time I checked but the situation is changing all the time.

[url]http://www.livescience.com/26110-std-gonorrhea-may-become-incurable.html[/url]

Maybe it's time to buckle up guys?

[QUOTE=Dim Yann; 1420849]Sorry but iam little unfalimiar with these terms.

What does "AO" mean?

Anyway, in these clubs you have full bareback both normal and anal sex?

And you "finish" inside the girl?

Thanks in advance for answering.[/QUOTE]AO usually means cream pie is fine. AO lite means you pull out & bust one.

[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;1419990]Actually I have another problem with VV, I had a gonorrhea 3 days after. I don't know if I caught it in VV, CA or maybe with a BJ in GT .[/QUOTE]3 days, not a chance. Go back 7 to 10 days and tell me who was sucking or receiving your cock, that's your gonner friend.

There was some broken glass but not car glass, looked like cheap vodka bottle. There was also some dog shit, not sure if they were harassed or just incontinent.

For those of you who use public transport take the train to Duisburg, walk North ON THE PLATFORM then down the steps and you'll find yourself in a local transport situation. Look for the 903 in the direction of Dinslaken. Get off at Amsterdammerstrasse. Go up Amsterdammerstrasse, which is perpendicular to the direction of the tram. Then, first right, left, right, left, right and keep walking on Konrad Adenauer Ring until you see a brown brick building (#17) beside a drink discounters. Open from 10 AM.

[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;1419990]Actually I have another problem with VV, I had a gonorrhea 3 days after. I don't know if I caught it in VV, CA or maybe with a BJ in GT but if I come back, I won't have AO sex, I think there are too many men doing it in VV because of the price and the risks are too high.[/QUOTE]BigBuddy69,

You have Gonorrhea, which some people call the The Clap. It called the clap since the prescribed treatment is clapping the penis hard for example with a book against a table or a swift clap with the hands. Ouch!

The idea is to extract the pus from the penis innards.

Is this what you are experiencing?

Yes I'm clapping my penis right now. Actually I had the symptoms and it has been diagnosed by the doctor.

atEd setra : no one was sucking or fucking me 7 days before, first sex I had in months was at the GT the Monday and I had the symptoms Friday.

Don't worry, it has since been cured by antibiotics.

[QUOTE=BigBuddy69; 1421186]Yes I'm clapping my penis right now. Actually I had the symptoms and it has been diagnosed by the doctor.

Don't worry, it has since been cured by antibiotics.[/QUOTE]BigBuddy69,

Thank you for getting yourself checked. Good you do this. It really hurt when the penis shaft is clapped, especially when the girl manhandle it like it a pole dance pole.

The wonders of modern medicine it cure the mother fuckers.

Keep safe out there. It can be a dangerous place.

Njoy.

I find it completely out of line to write on forum about getting Gonorrhea along with naming places where you got it!

As much as I would apprechiate well-meant warning, it usually comes too late anyway. By the time it is posted here, the women will have their own symptoms and stop working until they are cured again. Cured from a disease that is not their fault! Since they have been healthy before, it's certain that a customer infected them, so the women are not to blame here.

By now, they should be cured again, so no more reason for warning. But it is written here indefinitely now that someone got Gonorrhea at a certain club. Anybody who reads this forum might now be afraid to go to this place, and for a reason that doesn't exist anymore. There is no worse form of badmouthing a place!

So please refrain from posting short-term health problems on a forum where the info still lives on after the problem is solved! Especially when the warning comes too late anyway!

I'm not blaming the places, I knew the risks and maybe I got it before with BBBJ. It was just an information. I sent all the clubs an email to say I could have passed it to the girls (it can be asymptomatic). Feel free to erase my posts if you think it's inappropriate.

This is not to say that the G report was intended with negative intent. The board is about good fun and sharing. However, life is full of difference experiences and while the board is intended for sharing our choice for fun and risk someone wanting to get even with a bad experience at a club or even worst trying to turn the having these clubs open can use the board for their own interest. Smile

[QUOTE=SwingerLover;1421647]I find it completely out of line to write on forum about getting Gonorrhea along with naming places where you got it![/QUOTE]If you saw one or two girls from one club or agency in the time you show signs of an std, a report has merit. If your going from club to club to club, then its impossible to tell who or where you got it. The risk is there and we all agree to take said risk everytime we take a girl to the room.

I asked the moderation to remove the posts. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;1422439]I asked the moderation to remove the posts. Sorry for the inconvenience.[/QUOTE]I know you meant well, so this was propably the best way. Everybody got warning, even though propably too late, but at least now there is no info that is most likely inaccurate by now on forum any longer. Good work.

[QUOTE=SwingerLover;1422820]I know you meant well, so this was propably the best way. Everybody got warning, even though propably too late, but at least now there is no info that is most likely inaccurate by now on forum any longer. Good work.[/QUOTE]Couldn't disagree moer (especially since no names were mentioned). I find it surprising that the cruisader for AO sex, who doesn't like (correct me if I remember this wrongly) it when non-AO club girls are protected from AO speculation; gets all in a huff when a monger mentiones having caught something. Is it really just because it doesn't fir in your 'more chance to be hit by a bus' philosophy? If you're so intent on having unsafe sex being discussed as the most normal thin in the world, I can't see any reasonable argument why it would be uncalled for to mention it if you catch something (as long as individuals aren't mentioned).

[QUOTE=Free Dude;1422920], I can't see any reasonable argument why it would be uncalled for to mention it if you catch something (as long as individuals aren't mentioned).[/QUOTE]Because it is totally senseless and meaningless, and it hurts the business, as well as the girls who work there, if mongers believe that they should shun the place.

[QUOTE=Dreams;1423158]Because it is totally senseless and meaningless, and it hurts the business, as well as the girls who work there, if mongers believe that they should shun the place.[/QUOTE]Isn't it time to move on from this and back to some trip reports with some real info?

Why they do not put photos of their girls on their internet website?

[QUOTE=Woodypussy1967;1423266]Why they do not put photos of their girls on their internet website?[/QUOTE]I take this to be a rhetorical question communicating "Oh, how I wish they would put photos of the girls on their website." Because it is surely not a well-thought-out strategy, but rather that they don't want to be bothered with constantly maintaining their website.

[QUOTE=Woodypussy1967;1423266]Why they do not put photos of their girls on their internet website?[/QUOTE]Some photos available here: [url]http://www.freiercafe.com/showthread.php?t=22927[/url]

I am not sure can I post links to the other forums or not, but this is German language forum.

[QUOTE=Dreams;1423158]Because it is totally senseless and meaningless, and it hurts the business, as well as the girls who work there, if mongers believe that they should shun the place.[/QUOTE]If someone caught something at a place, yes. It's time to shun it and close the joint.

Too many people here have this notion of some kind of allegiance to a club or a girl. If you're saying you'd sacrifice us and our health to save face…I'm not sure what to think (but it won't be kind, I can tell you that.)

[QUOTE=Jymondor; 1423380]Some photos available here:

[url]http://www.freiercafe.com/showthread.php?t=22927[/url]

I am not sure can I post links to the other forums or not, but this is German language forum.[/QUOTE]Man those pics are great, plus I love the pussy shots that you normally don't get on Club Websites, due to Hoormanys strange anti porn Laws.

[QUOTE=Wanking;1424003]Man those pics are great, plus I love the pussy shots that you normally don't get on Club Websites, due to Hoormanys strange anti porn Laws.[/QUOTE]Pussishots available on Lancelot's, F66's and Palast's (Freiburg) web sites. I assume this is the same franchise because web-site style is very similar and they have cross-references each to other.

[QUOTE=Wanking;1424003]Man those pics are great[/QUOTE]From a picture standpoint, those pictures are pathetic. Take a look at the photo's at Teenyland.

[url]http://www.teenyland-koeln.de/html/?q=teenys[/url]

If you've got the choice between visiting one of these two places (VV vs Teenyland) , which set of photo's would win you over?

[QUOTE=Breadman;1424121]If you've got the choice between visiting one of these two places (VV vs Teenyland)[/QUOTE]I don't think these places are even comparable. Different approach, different philosophy. Even knowing that Teenyland's lineup is way better I would chose FKK club simply because I prefer FKK format over the brothels. There is no problems to book a girl for 1 hr in Toronto. Even with much higher Toronto prices it is still more economical that FKK tour to Germany. But FKK not available in North America, thats why I fly to Germany every second month.

Sorry guys to fuck this thread up now, but what is a AO club?

[QUOTE=MrAdams;1424240]Sorry guys to fuck this thread up now, but what is a AO club?[/QUOTE]AO = Alles ohne, which means : everything without.

In other word CIM, cum in pussy.

[QUOTE=MrAdams;1424240]Sorry guys to fuck this thread up now, but what is a AO club?[/QUOTE]Scroll down to reply in post #127.

[QUOTE=Breadman; 1424121]From a picture standpoint, those pictures are pathetic. Take a look at the photo's at Teenyland.

[url]http://www.teenyland-koeln.de/html/?q=teenys[/url]

If you've got the choice between visiting one of these two places (VV vs Teenyland) , which set of photo's would win you over?[/QUOTE]Yes they are, but at least they are not photoshopped.

And the girls are far better in real than of those pics.

[QUOTE=Woofiee; 1423529]If someone caught something at a place, yes. It's time to shun it and close the joint.

Too many people here have this notion of some kind of allegiance to a club or a girl. If you're saying you'd sacrifice us and our health to save face. I'm not sure what to think (but it won't be kind, I can tell you that.) [/QUOTE]Ha ha, most ridiculous comment I have read since a while. Just being realsitic, there are NO clubs where you cannot get STDs, and when and if you get it, the bacteria does not come with a tag saying which girl or club it came form.

[QUOTE=Jymondor;1424129]I don't think these places are even comparable. Different approach, different philosophy. Even knowing that Teenyland's lineup is way better I would chose FKK club simply because I prefer FKK format over the brothels.[/QUOTE]You misunderstand, I wasn't including the link to teenyland so as to compare an AO club to a brothel. I was just comparing the photo's. At the time I didn't have club angelique's website handy. I was just trying to say as a marketing strategy, those photo's don't encourage the average sex seeker to visit the club. Compared to Angelique's girls, it pales in comparison.

I'm not against AO, I'm against AO with unattractive escorts.

[QUOTE=Breadman; 1424717]You misunderstand, I wasn't including the link to teenyland so as to compare an AO club to a brothel. I was just comparing the photo's. At the time I didn't have club angelique's website handy. I was just trying to say as a marketing strategy, those photo's don't encourage the average sex seeker to visit the club. Compared to Angelique's girls, it pales in comparison.

I'm not against AO, I'm against AO with unattractive escorts.[/QUOTE]OK, got it.

Sometimes I don't understand why majority of the clubs do not engage marketing power of good photos. Because of good photosets I visited first time for example Angelique and Babylon (Elsdorf). I seriously considered to visit F66 / Lancelot / Palast because of excellent photosets in spit of those clubs overpriced. Only reports on this boards changed my mind.

Now about porno restricting laws. Some clubs sensore images, some not. What are German regulations here?

[QUOTE=Dreams;1424652]Ha ha, most ridiculous comment I have read since a while. Just being realsitic, there are NO clubs where you cannot get STDs, and when and if you get it, the bacteria does not come with a tag saying which girl or club it came form.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Woofiee; 1423529]If someone caught something at a place, yes. It's time to shun it and close the joint.

Too many people here have this notion of some kind of allegiance to a club or a girl. If you're saying you'd sacrifice us and our health to save face. I'm not sure what to think (but it won't be kind, I can tell you that.) [/QUOTE][QUOTE=Dreams;1423158]Because it is totally senseless and meaningless, and it hurts the business, as well as the girls who work there, if mongers believe that they should shun the place.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Free Dude;1422920]Couldn't disagree moer (especially since no names were mentioned). I find it surprising that the cruisader for AO sex, who doesn't like (correct me if I remember this wrongly) it when non-AO club girls are protected from AO speculation; gets all in a huff when a monger mentiones having caught something. Is it really just because it doesn't fir in your 'more chance to be hit by a bus' philosophy? If you're so intent on having unsafe sex being discussed as the most normal thin in the world, I can't see any reasonable argument why it would be uncalled for to mention it if you catch something (as long as individuals aren't mentioned).[/QUOTE]Oh, but there was a name mentioned, the name of the club. Which I did not repeat on purpose!

I'm all with you with issuing warning where it's appropriate and still makes sense. And, Woofiee, it's time to shun a woman or close down a place if they know about the disease and willigly go around spreading it with no regard for others. But that wasn't the case here, and with Gonorrhea it propably never is.

Because by the time it appears on forum, the women who should have caught it are already undergoing treatment and are not working at that time. (And if they still are and get caught, they will definitely not only be shut down, but will be subjected to criminal prosecution! Knowingly spreading around an STD is a crime in Germany! In such a case, I welcome open warnings very much.)

But in a case of Gonorrhea, which was surely being transmitted there by a guy and was not initialy the women's fault, it's not warranted to shun them indefinitely for an infection that's cured after a week or two. But the post on the forum will remain indefinitely.

Simple question: How would you feel if someone knew that you had gotten it, and even though you are cured now everybody would shun you indefinitely?

So I still think posting it here (although too late) as a short term warning was propably okay, but if the warning would still be on now, it would be counterproductive. I still think it's good that the original report is gone now.

I also think that if every place that ever had any trouble with Gonorrhea would be closed down, then there wouldn't be any left at all that are open for more than a year. I'd rather recommend to approach this from the other direction: If you catch a guy at a club or a party that has gotten an STD, then call the police on him, instead of just kicking him out!

[QUOTE=Dreams;1424652]Ha ha, most ridiculous comment I have read since a while. Just being realsitic, there are NO clubs where you cannot get STDs, and when and if you get it, the bacteria does not come with a tag saying which girl or club it came form.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=SwingerLover; 1424832]Oh, but there was a name mentioned, the name of the club. Which I did not repeat on purpose!

I'm all with you with issuing warning where it's appropriate and still makes sense. And, Woofiee, it's time to shun a woman or close down a place if they know about the disease and willingly go around spreading it with no regard for others. But that wasn't the case here, and with Gonorrhea it propably never is.

Because by the time it appears on forum, the women who should have caught it are already undergoing treatment and are not working at that time. (And if they still are and get caught, they will definitely not only be shut down, but will be subjected to criminal prosecution! Knowingly spreading around an STD is a crime in Germany! In such a case, I welcome open warnings very much.)

But in a case of Gonorrhea, which was surely being transmitted there by a guy and was not initialy the women's fault, it's not warranted to shun them indefinitely for an infection that's cured after a week or two. But the post on the forum will remain indefinitely.

Simple question: How would you feel if someone knew that you had gotten it, and even though you are cured now everybody would shun you indefinitely?

So I still think posting it here (although too late) as a short term warning was propably okay, but if the warning would still be on now, it would be counterproductive. I still think it's good that the original report is gone now.

I also think that if every place that ever had any trouble with Gonorrhea would be closed down, then there wouldn't be any left at all that are open for more than a year. I'd rather recommend to approach this from the other direction: If you catch a guy at a club or a party that has gotten an STD, then call the police on him, instead of just kicking him out![/QUOTE]I never suggested we had to "shun" a woman, so please stop changing the argument to personalize this and make me sound like a Puritan. I can't tell if Dreams is naive or willfully ignorant, but if he thinks that it's only the problem of the guy who catches it, he's a danger to us all. He's emblematic of the AO conversation and the no-rules mentality in the FKK section. It's what killed-off the partytreff section for many of us who used to post in there. Let's be honest, there are far fewer posters now in the partytreff segment what's there tends to be more about coming events, cancelled events, misrepresented ads and generally poor performers. If they show up (with the occasional exception. To be fair). There's a real feeling of an insular, clubhouse mentality.

I'm speaking specifically about businesses or events that don't sufficiently test their women, and specifically I'm speaking about many of the listings I see now in the Partytreff section about AO gang-bang parties, glory-holes and parking-lot events that can't possibly be safe. Do I see them as unsafe? Yeah. I do. They have dangerous sex and now they're telling me how much effective safety I should expect in an FKK club, lowering the standard for all of us.

Speak for yourselves and that's fine, but don't dare tell me that I can't tell when or where I caught something. I don't bother mongering here in Europe much, so if I caught something it's likely that I'd know *exactly* from where I got it at.

Would you contact them and tell them you contracted Gonorrhea from one of their regulars? Or is that just the price of admission to the AO club?

Would / Should the FKK be closed down? If it's a one-off and they remove the threat, no way. If it's from sloppy testing practices, what do you do. Give a warning? That should be the case, but we also are smart enough to know there are gangs and criminal elements that run these, and a lot of greased palms in the business. DO I trust them to do the right thing? Do mongers contact the police? Does anything actually happen?

The only advantage we have is shared information, so what I want to know is why, when there's a threat, would you not name the club?

You want to talk fairness, but you're also being completely unfair to we mongers who you may be letting walk in harm's way.

[QUOTE=Woofiee;1425048]. I can't tell if Dreams is naive or willfully ignorant,[/QUOTE]FYI, I have both PhD and MD. And I have been mongering all over the world since 40 + years.

BTW, you are posting all this crap on a specific thread about specific clubs. Have you ever been to any of those? If not, what about moving your comments on a more specific thread, for instance threads dealing with health and safety?

Personally, I think it is good in these threads to show the risks; ie sometimes you can catch something. Saying you caught something in an AO club or AO gangbang does nothing else but relating the experience that it can happen. That something will be done against it is great, but it doesn't hurt to remind ourselves about the risks sometimes. There is plenty reports that don't mention catching anything.

[QUOTE=Dreams;1425067]FYI, I have both PhD and MD. And I have been mongering all over the world since 40 + years.[/QUOTE]Intelligence and education aren't necessarily synonymous. One would hope so, but boards like these thrive on hyperbole and boasts. I often consider them a zero-sum-gain. Incidentally. 30+ years mongering and my doctorate is from a top-5 US school in Physics. Is it a requirement to rebut your insipid argument?

[QUOTE=Dreams;1425067]BTW, you are posting all this crap on a specific thread about specific clubs. Have you ever been to any of those? If not, what about moving your comments on a more specific thread, for instance threads dealing with health and safety?[/QUOTE]The conversation had moved on from the venue to a discussion of whether a venue which seemingly had infected a member here should be disclosed. My argument concerns itself with your responsibility towards public health in such an instance, which is in accordance with the thread.

If some mod wants to move all the threads to a more suitable segment, let that be so. Until that time, this is where it started, and this is where it will be discussed. Just because you no longer want to discuss it is not my problem.

Would be nice to have some reports from the experience, prices, girls, service in any of those clubs.

Would be a welcome change from the crap that has recently pollluted this thread (and I apologise for having contributed to it, should have stayed away.)

Someone caught an std in one of these clubs and VV is now charging 40 for half an hour; Crema and Maja seem to have moved to VV from Arabella. All relevant I would say.

[QUOTE=Free Dude; 1425606]Someone caught an std in one of these clubs

Crema and Maja seem to have moved to VV from Arabella. All relevant I would say.[/QUOTE]So "someone" got an STD, and some girls "seem" to have moved.

Any REAL relevant info there, please? Some info that YOU have personally got, not jut repeating things that you read elsewhere?

STDs" I have last year got gonorhea from BBBJ from one girl in Mainhattan,"

That's a recent quote from the general FKK thread. Bottom line, you can catch an STD everywhere, what matters is what you do, not where you do it.

Hey guys,,

I'm headed to Germany in a month an have been RTFF but I can't find the answer in this thread. Do these three clubs test you when you enter with one of the rapid HIV tests or any other STD tests before letting the guys in? If so is that charge included in the entry price or if not, what is the cost for the test?

I'd like to try one of these places but I'd be more comfortable with it if they're testing guys prior to entry.

Also are any of these places reachable without a rental car? Could I take a train from FRA?

Thanks in advance for the help.

Why are you so worried about the risks of AO being mentioned once in a while? As for the other part, how do you think forums work? Especially this kind of 'once in a blue moon in Germany' forum; people that keep up to date on more informative places and / or talk to regular clubvisitors might be willing to share that information.

For anyone who knows about these clubs, Crema moving is a fairly big thing since she was the most popular girl in Arabella (and for her first few months there she was probably the most popular girl in any of the AO clubs.

But if you insist:

Line up is growing in VV with 14 girls this Sunday (pretty good for a Sunday) and all girls bar Andrea offering AO.

Some girls missing and no Crema or Maja, but Maja's sister Lilly was there (also used to be at Arabella).

Three Bulgarian girls from Grimberg (Natalya, Mary and?) were there, but are going back to Grimberg soon.

Bianca, Mara, Monika, Aida, Florentina (could easily work in any other club) were also there. I can't think of the 4 others right now.

Some more info; price now 40 per session, but on mondays back to 30 and no entry fee (according to a girl, didn't see it mentioned anywhere else).

Some guys seem to like fuck in other people's sperm (schlamschieben it's called) and try to catch girls before they go clean up; some also like to do some DATY first, but that might be the end of any DFK with some of the Romanians.

One of the girls I asked after apparantly caught an STD as well; the kind that gets progressively worse for 9 months, and you never really get rid of it.

[QUOTE=Free Dude;1427003]Some guys seem to like fuck in other people's sperm (schlamschieben it's called) and try to catch girls before they go clean up; some also like to do some DATY first, but that might be the end of any DFK with some of the Romanians.[/QUOTE]Sounds like a real classy joint. Can't wait to visit. Maybe after they tear the place down.

One of the girls I asked after apparantly caught an STD as well; the kind that gets progressively worse for 9 months, and you never really get rid of it.[/QUOTE]That hooker is lucky if thats all she catches!

[QUOTE=Woofiee; 1425048]I'm speaking specifically about businesses or events that don't sufficiently test their women, and specifically I'm speaking about many of the listings I see now in the Partytreff section about AO gang-bang parties, glory-holes and parking-lot events that can't possibly be safe. Do I see them as unsafe? Yeah. I do. They have dangerous sex and now they're telling me how much effective safety I should expect in an FKK club, lowering the standard for all of us.[/QUOTE]What standard? What safety? Like I wrote elsewhere: The lung cancer risk for and from the chainsmoking girls at some places are far bigger than the risk of contracting an STD. Getting damaged from travelling to Germany from abroad is also more likely than getting infected with an STD. As for AIDS, I think it's even more likely to get struck by lightning than contracting it at an AO-Party, tested or not. I think it's unsafe to board an airplane and fly halfway across the world, as I think it's unsafe to sail across the ocean on a ship. So I don't do it. But I don't go running around telling everybody about how unsafe I consider flying and cruising, whether they want to hear it or not. But when it comes to AO-sex, everybody who is too scared from decades of brainwashing propaganda thinks he has to issue warning based on his beliefs, whether it's correct or not or if it's wanted or not. If you don't want to do it, fine. Then don't. Continue playing with rubbers if you like. (Damn, I now just sound like nearly every AO-couple that has a profile on portals like Poppen de. They also need to constantly remind some selfproclaimed moralizers that they have no business to tell them how to live their sexlife.)

As for the AO-Calendar in the Partytreff forum: That started out as MY personal partylist, which got expanded some due to the interest it found and some posts from a few other guys. And since my maps get nearly 2000 hits per month by now, as unlisted maps with links from only two fora, I'd say that there are enough people interested in AO to keep them updated continuously. If you don't like it, don't read it. I specifically started the Calendar thread to seperate those party lists from other threads. The fact that there are by now over 10 threads about Bareback / AO on ISG also suggests a huge enough interest to justify it. Wanking already suggested to create a seperate Germany AO forum, but Jackson obviously didn't go for that. So we will continue in the Partytreff Clubs forum as before. Too bad that this discussion started in this thread here in the FKK Clubs forum, but that's just the way it is. And for what it's worth: Lately I'm hearing more and more stories that AO happens at nearly every FKK too, only quietly and covertly and mostly with regular customers.

[QUOTE]Speak for yourselves and that's fine, but don't dare tell me that I can't tell when or where I caught something. I don't bother mongering here in Europe much, so if I caught something it's likely that I'd know *exactly* from where I got it at.[/QUOTE]No. I deny that you know *exactly* where you got it, if you ever should have gotten it. I for one could never tell where I had contracted Gonorrhea. I did however check on the couples and two of the single guys I last had bareback sex and AO Gangbangs with back then, neither the women nor the guys that fucked them after I creampied their already filled pussies contracted Gonorrhea. So I didn't get it from them and they didn't get it from me. So where did I get it from? I haven't the faintest idea! By now, I'm even open to the possibility that Gonorrhea, although a venereal disease, is not transmitted sexually; at least not initially. Kinda like a stomach bug is not transmitted by food. Did anyone have similar experiences? And please, only replies from people who already had to deal with this crappy infection! Anybody else doesn't know what they are talking about anyway. Because I would really like to know how I had gotten it, to avoid any future infections. Because I surely did not get it from fucking. Why else would I be the only one among those I had sex and parties with in the week before the outbreak?

I also think any further discussion on this subject matter should be exchanged in a neutral thread, like the General Info thread or the Bareback AO thread.

[QUOTE]Would you contact them and tell them you contracted Gonorrhea from one of their regulars? Or is that just the price of admission to the AO club?

Would / Should the FKK be closed down? If it's a one-off and they remove the threat, no way. If it's from sloppy testing practices, what do you do. Give a warning? That should be the case, but we also are smart enough to know there are gangs and criminal elements that run these, and a lot of greased palms in the business. DO I trust them to do the right thing? Do mongers contact the police? Does anything actually happen?[/QUOTE]Rest assured, I would have! I was at a party in 2012, where I had heard an hour or so after it happened that they had kicked a guy out, because one of the women had noticed the yellowish dripping right before his first session. If I had learned about this while he was still there, he would NOT have left, except in handcuffs! And for the record: It was not in one of the clubs this thread is about and I won't mention the place where it happened, because doing so would be completely useless by now. And if I would have mentioned it in my report about that party from last year, then that info would still be on forum, with no purpose than to still ruin the reputation of the place. Even though there is not much to ruin there, but for other reasons.

[QUOTE]The only advantage we have is shared information, so what I want to know is why, when there's a threat, would you not name the club?

You want to talk fairness, but you're also being completely unfair to we mongers who you may be letting walk in harm's way.[/QUOTE]Again, what good is a warning that comes too late? Sharing information is good, but only as long as it is still true. But with a forum like this, the information still lives on and badmouths the place long after the infection is gone. So aside from being victimized by an irresponsible guy who brings the infection there, they now also have to suffer from info that by now is out of date. All this contingent on Gonorrhea actually being transmitted sexually. I would not let anybody walk into harms way. But I won't issue warning about something that isn't true or current anymore either. First thing you do is track back the people you had sex with during the incubation time and inform them and share information with them. Then you have to be SURE about where you got it, before shouting out your information to the world at large. I did all that and came up empty last year. But I was given some kind of an evil eye at a place where I had a remote suspicion about, when I got there the next time. Because I had send them all to the doctor for nothing with voicing my concern to them after I had gotten infected elsewhere. So what good would it have done if I had put my suspicion of forum? And it would still be on here today?

Lastly, it was said in another thread that a certain woman might be infected as well. That info wasn't even true, but it still is on forum. As are the denials and clarifications I added on after checking up on her. It turned out that it was a case of mistaken identity with two women who had the same name. And I still don't know if the info on the original woman was true. So please, use a little common sense before posting anything about anybody contracting anything and make sure you get the facts straight. Then think about how you would feel if you were falsely proclaimed as being disease-ridden on a forum. I had my share of cybermobbing on a completely different (non-sexual) matter already, I can assure you it's no fun at all if you read some stuff about yourself or hear some romours about yourself that aren't true.

[QUOTE=Free Dude;1427003]Why are you so worried about the risks of AO being mentioned once in a while?[/QUOTE]And why do you think they have to be mentioned every once in a while? Whereas other way more common risks (smoking, flying, skydiving, motorcycling and so forth) are not mentioned at all. But AO-sex, hey: Here we have something which we can socially accepted use to trample on the lifestyle of a minority without being labeled sexist or racist or chauvinist or some other -ist. Whoooo, they do something that the vast majority of the population has been scared into not-to-do. Better give them warning, before they start to proclaim that the world isn't flat.

There's risk's involved in this hobby, especially since we are seeing working girls. Anytime any newbie asks what the risks are we are all ready to pipe in and say "there's no risk if you stay at home". So why is it that guys who frequently get AO service refuse to acknowledge the fact that their risks are highest?

I have to say, this thread is now the AO thread in the Fkk forum. You throw in three different clubs in the headline and then add 'nrw ao clubs' to the end you've just made a general area to chat about AO clubs. Look at the reports on the clubs themselves, you can't even tell what club half the guys are refering to in their post.

To summarize guys want to talk about AO clubs but don't want to be reminded about the higher risks associated with this type of service.

[QUOTE=Breadman;1427186]To summarize guys want to talk about AO clubs but don't want to be reminded about the higher risks associated with this type of service.[/QUOTE]Correct. And we don't want this no more than you would like to be constantly reimded of the "immorality" of indulging in the hobby by feminists. Guys who come to the Ao threads to preach agaisnt AO are as intolerant that those feminists coming to sex forum to preach agaisnt prostitution.

[QUOTE=Dreams;1428377]Correct. And we don't want this no more than you would like to be constantly reimded of the "immorality" of indulging in the hobby by feminists. Guys who come to the Ao threads to preach agaisnt AO are as intolerant that those feminists coming to sex forum to preach agaisnt prostitution.[/QUOTE]Sharing relevant experiences is not the same as preaching. Nobody has been preaching here, just relating experiences. Nobody mentioning anything about morality eather.

[QUOTE=Dreams;1428377]Correct. And we don't want this no more than you would like to be constantly reimded of the "immorality" of indulging in the hobby by feminists. Guys who come to the Ao threads to preach agaisnt AO are as intolerant that those feminists coming to sex forum to preach agaisnt prostitution.[/QUOTE]Sorry. Let me be more clear: You're [blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue] and you're endangering us all.

Your comparison is specious and disregards my position entirely. This was about a person who likely caught something at a club and whether they were right in not saying where it happened.

These AO events need to be run scrupulously, and from what I read here on ISG they're not. Of course some guys get into that sense of danger, but then they also go to other clubs, as do the girls. Whether you admit it or not, this particular practice will spread problems to other venues and in the long run weakens the sport.

If you can't figure this out, you're just an ostrich with their head in the sand. And their little head in the guillotine.

[b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]This report was redacted or deleted to remove sections of the report that were [u]largely antagonistic[/u]. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. [i]Thank You![/i][/blue]

[QUOTE=Woofiee; 1428598]These AO events need to be run scrupulously, and from what I read here on ISG they're not. Of course some guys get into that sense of danger, but then they also go to other clubs, as do the girls. Whether you admit it or not, this particular practice will spread problems to other venues and in the long run weakens the sport.

If you can't figure this out, you're just an ostrich with their head in the sand. And their little head in the guillotine.[/QUOTE]Seems to me that there is too much talk about these small, disgusting little clubs and that this type of venue should be in discussed in some sorta dark and dingey sub-directory away from chat about the big time FKK and Sauna Clubs. That way the dimwits who partake in this type of disgusting unsafe behaviour can crawl around in the dark away from normal type regular guy mongers.

[QUOTE=Woofiee; 1428598]Sorry. Let me be more clear: You're an idiot and you're endangering us all.

Your comparison is specious and disregards my position entirely. This was about a person who likely caught something at a club and whether they were right in not saying where it happened.

These AO events need to be run scrupulously, and from what I read here on ISG they're not. Of course some guys get into that sense of danger, but then they also go to other clubs, as do the girls. Whether you admit it or not, this particular practice will spread problems to other venues and in the long run weakens the sport.

If you can't figure this out, you're just an ostrich with their head in the sand. And their little head in the guillotine.[/QUOTE]Have heard this crap since 30 years. Still have my head well posted on my neck, thanks.

I stick to everything I have said. Everyday somebody catches something in every club. If you don't understand that, it is you who is endangering others. And whether somebody singles out a club or not does not change anything to those facts.

If you come to this thread to say what you say, it is preaching.

You are convinced that what you do is fine, and what other do is wrong.

If you were a politician in power, you would be a dictator.

Cheers

[QUOTE=Methuzela;1428616]Seems to me that there is too much talk about these small, disgusting little clubs and that this type of venue should be in discussed in some sorta dark and dingey sub-directory away from chat about the big time FKK and Sauna Clubs. That way the dimwits who partake in this type of disgusting unsafe behaviour can crawl around in the dark away from normal type regular guy mongers.[/QUOTE]No beating around the Bush (pun intended) here, couldn't have said it better myself.

[QUOTE=Dreams;1425067]FYI, I have both PhD and MD[/QUOTE]Can't imagine any doctor giving you the ok to fuck prostitutes without a condom.

After the reports of our morality crusaders, I'd like to add how lucky we are to be able to have a full GFE with a girl beautifull young girl of your choice who is smiling at you waiting in her sofa for only 30 euro. You fuck her with or without protection, thats your choice.

Anyway, Arabella has become my favorite destination. I've had many of the wonderfull girls. Crema is (was, since she is now in Venus) of course the absolute top. But in fact you can choose any of the women in this club and you will be satisfied. They all kiss with tongue, they all suck an they all go bare if you want. On top of that their services are clearly mentioned with their pictures on the front desk. And I've never seen an unfriendly attitude.

My favorite is Andrea. This girl gives it all, including hardcore anal sex.

Last week I took the teen Bonny. SHe's tiny and slender and her ass almost fit in one hand. We were kissing and fondling on the coach before she bent over to blow me. She then sat on my lap and gave me a lapdance. She took my dick, shove it in her thight pussy and started riding me. In public. I had seen more of these public sessions in the lounge but it was actually my first one. After a while I decided to move on to a room, where we continued to have hot sex in any position that I wanted. As she did't want me to come inside her pussy, we finished with a CIM after more excellent sucking and licking of my dick and balls. .

I add some pictures of the general atmosphere in the club.

[QUOTE=Breadman;1428886]Can't imagine any doctor giving you the ok to fuck prostitutes without a condom.[/QUOTE]This shows that you lack imagination.

[QUOTE=Methuzela;1428616]Seems to me that there is too much talk about these small, disgusting little clubs and that this type of venue should be in discussed in some sorta dark and dingey sub-directory away from chat about the big time FKK and Sauna Clubs. That way the dimwits who partake in this type of disgusting unsafe behaviour can crawl around in the dark away from normal type regular guy mongers.[/QUOTE]We were happy discussing those clubs that you call "disgusting" in their own thread until people like you and a few others came in to tell us how disgusting we were. We did not invite you in.

Have you EVER been into one those clubs? Or are you just adding some useless comments from your dirty sofa?

Just stay in your "noble" thread, where you believe you are in a safe environement, until you also catch something. You won't believe it though, I am sure.

Free for you to pay 2-3 times more, in the belief that you are safe. Only naive guys believe that AO is not offered in big FKKs. And that STDs are not rampant there too, especially since BBBjs are the norms.

At the end, whether it is in "disgusting" little clubs, or "big " FKKs, it is up to the monger to choose protected or unprotected sex.

[QUOTE=Kris Kras; 1429066]After the reports of our morality crusaders, I'd like to add how lucky we are to be able to have a full GFE with a girl beautifull young girl of your choice who is smiling at you waiting in her sofa for only 30 euro. You fuck her with or without protection, thats your choice.

Anyway, Arabella has become my favorite destination. I've had many of the wonderfull girls. Crema is (was, since she is now in Venus) of course the absolute top. But in fact you can choose any of the women in this club and you will be satisfied. They all kiss with tongue, they all suck an they all go bare if you want. On top of that their services are clearly mentioned with their pictures on the front desk. And I've never seen an unfriendly attitude.

My favorite is Andrea. This girl gives it all, including hardcore anal sex.

Last week I took the teen Bonny. SHe's tiny and slender and her ass almost fit in one hand. We were kissing and fondling on the coach before she bent over to blow me. She then sat on my lap and gave me a lapdance. She took my dick, shove it in her thight pussy and started riding me. In public. I had seen more of these public sessions in the lounge but it was actually my first one. After a while I decided to move on to a room, where we continued to have hot sex in any position that I wanted. As she did't want me to come inside her pussy, we finished with a CIM after more excellent sucking and licking of my dick and balls. .

I add some pictures of the general atmosphere in the club.[/QUOTE]Thanks, mate. At last a report, who is just informative, and does not comment and criticise other's behavior.

I have been last to Venus and Arabella a few months back. Unlucky as I was, I missed Crema at both those occasions. But enjoyed Aida and a few others.

[QUOTE=Kris Kras; 1429066]You fuck her with or without protection, thats your choice. They all kiss with tongue, they all suck an they all go bare if you want. On top of that their services are clearly mentioned with their pictures on the front desk.

She took my dick, shove it in her thight pussy and started riding me. In public. I had seen more of these public sessions in the lounge but it was actually my first one. After a while I decided to move on to a room.

I add some pictures of the general atmosphere in the club.[/QUOTE]Just to clarify a few things.

They do not all fuck without protection. Some, including all of the Dominican Republic girls, state on the website that they do not do AO.

Only a proportion of the girls (when I visited only 6) have their photos and details of their services posted near the front desk. The details of the services that the girls provide is on the website but no photos and it is not clear that these are fully up to date and complete as girls of course come and go.

My understanding was that some public affection is allowed for example kissing, caressing and even a blow job on the couches. But the expectation of management is that this is only brief, will not involve full sex and that you will move to the rooms soon afterwards. I also understand that you are only allowed 30 minutes per session and that this 30 minutes will begin once you initiate any sexual activity like a blow job or hand job on the couches.

Also, I did not realise that they allowed the taking of photos inside the club so I assume this was clandestine?

[QUOTE=Methuzela;1429002]Personally I think this thread should be deleted or at the very least moved to the Germany Partytreff Forum. The Bottom Feeders over in that section would be over the moon about these lousy clubs.[/QUOTE]Agreed, although I'd take it a step further and remove all promotion of unsafe sex practices from the board. The Partytreff section *used* to have more information and would be worth going through. Some clubs, like the Pauschalclub. De line. Are quite high-quality and more like a flat-rate FKK, so I participate there as I can. Otherwise; the AO gang there has turned that sub into a wasteland. Completely useless.

And now they're here.

[QUOTE=Methuzela;1429002]Personally I think this thread should be deleted or at the very least moved to the Germany Partytreff Forum. The Bottom Feeders over in that section would be over the moon about these lousy clubs.[/QUOTE]I am struggling to see the logic behind the objection to a club that is called FKK Arabella being in the 'Germany-FKK Clubs' section of this forum [head scratching].

The other clubs in this thread, Villa Venus and Sauna Grimberg, operate a similar business model of paying per session (FKK model) rather than flat rate (partytreff model) and so by that logic they belong in the FKK section as well.

In any case why is it assumed that bareback sex is a partytreff issue alone? It is common knowledge that bareback sex happens in most or even all of the FKK clubs dependent on the particular girl. The clubs in these threads are perhaps more honest in acknowledging a practice that regularly goes on in FKK clubs. This way you will know which clubs and girls definitely do it rather than having to find out through trial and error and suffering the awkwardness or embarrassment of asking a girl for a service which she finds distasteful or does not provide.

[QUOTE=Methuzela;1429002]Personally I think this thread should be deleted or at the very least moved to the Germany Partytreff Forum. The Bottom Feeders over in that section would be over the moon about these lousy clubs.[/QUOTE]Deleting the thread will not change reality. If you don't want to fuck BB just don't visit AO clubs and use a condom in the other clubs. Trying to convince BB lovers to use a condom isn't going to work. There's plenty on non BB locations in Germany, just visit these. Keep in mind that BB happens in all the clubs, girls doing it you would never guess they do. If you use a condom you are OK. You might catch a lttle sperm when doing DFK with a girl who did CIM before or if you DATY a girl who had CIP before. Bad luck. Disgusting? Don't do DFK or DATY. Or stay away from P6.

HB

Well, I've just had enough of those insulting and derogatory comments here. Do you people even know that there is something like forum rules on ISG?

I just reported all 3 of you to Jackson for your violations and asked that the author of "the dimwits who partake in this type of disgusting unsafe behaviour can crawl around in the dark away from normal type regular guy mongers" be kicked off the forum for his disgusting remark!

The one who seconded this insult should be downgraded to regular member again, so that his reports would be monitored again for the next six months. Same goes for the one that publicly called dreams an "idiot" on open forum, which would make him subject to criminal prosucution in Germany, if that violation was reported to the police! And then he also writes that he'd "take it a step further and remove all promotion of unsafe sex practices from the board", which is also a gross violation of the forums rules. We'll see how Jackson will handle my complaints.

What's the matter with you people? What business do you have to tell others how to live their sexlifes? If you don't like the AO-threads, then don't read them. But leave the members who like them in peace! Just as a reminder, here's a link to the forum's posting guidelines, where it explicitly says "NO Safe Sex Complaints": [url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/custompages.php?pageid=custompages_forumrules#postingguidelines[/url]

The line about "that this type of venue should be in discussed in some sorta dark and dingey sub-directory away from chat about the big time FKK and Sauna Clubs." makes me wonder about FKKs in general. I've never been to one, so I can't tell about the attitude of the guys who visit those places, except those guys who write here and the nice ones I personally met at other, allegedly "disgusting" places. But from what little I've read on the FKK-Clubs forum until now, most of it in this thread here, I think I will keep on avoiding the FKKs. Just in case those remarks here are any reflection on the attitude being displayed by maybe other guys at those clubs too.

I have never read anything similar in the regular Germany forum, nor in the Germany Partytreff Clubs forum, like I read in this thread here today. Do large clubs cause some kind of delusions of grandeur?

I'd rather party at those "small, disgusting little clubs" from the Partytreff Clubs forum where almost everybody is friendly and treats others with appropriate respect and kindness. And where no people appear who write such derogatory comments and insults in the respective threads of a forum.

And by the way: The remark "the AO gang there has turned that sub into a wasteland. Completely useless." is also pretty useless, since there are only 13 out of 53 user threads in the Germany Partytreff Clubs forum that deal with AO and 4 of those are practically dead.

[QUOTE=Hessen Bub; 1429105]Deleting the thread will not change reality. If you don't want to fuck BB just don't visit AO clubs and use a condom in the other clubs. Trying to convince BB lovers to use a condom isn't going to work. There's plenty on non BB locations in Germany, just visit these. Keep in mind that BB happens in all the clubs, girls doing it you would never guess they do. If you use a condom you are OK. You might catch a lttle sperm when doing DFK with a girl who did CIM before or if you DATY a girl who had CIP before. Bad luck. Disgusting? Don't do DFK or DATY. Or stay away from P6.

HB[/QUOTE]Thanks, HB. We sometimes need short but clear statement.

[QUOTE=Hessen Bub;1429105]Or stay away from P6.HB[/QUOTE]P6 is not common abbreviation. What it stands for? Thanks.

[QUOTE=Jymondor;1429214]P6 is not common abbreviation. What it stands for? Thanks.[/QUOTE]I guess that would be PaySex.

Can someone please tell me if non German speaking men are welcome in these establishments?. And if so, will be provided the same services? I am a Caucasian guy and speak zero words of German, I've been to the various Fkk's in Frankfurt with no notable issues.

As these clubs are sort of 'off the grid', I wonder if that was done on purpose to leave guys like me out. I notice that their websites are in German only whereas Frankfurt's FKK's have English translation.

I sure don't want to drive all the way there and get rejected or worse have some German guys staring at me in the clubs.

'Dank' for any useful info.

[QUOTE=Tiradentes; 1429322]Can someone please tell me if non German speaking men are welcome in these establishments. And if so, will be provided the same services? I am a Caucasian guy and speak zero words of German, I've been to the various Fkk's in Frankfurt with no notable issues.

As these clubs are sort of 'off the grid', I wonder if that was done on purpose to leave guys like me out. I notice that their websites are in German only whereas Frankfurt's FKK's have English translation.

I sure don't want to drive all the way there and get rejected or worse have some German guys staring at me in the clubs.

'Dank' for any useful info.[/QUOTE]Relax no entry problems so you'll be just fine but if you're based in Frankfurt why not save yourself some time and visit FKK Dietzenbach instead? It's part of the same group and some girls work at both Villa Venus and Dietzenbach.

[QUOTE=Kris Kras;1429066]I add some pictures of the general atmosphere in the club.[/QUOTE]Be careful posting photo's of other hobbiests, your photo's are blurred enough so the guy in your one photo shouldn't be recognized.

[quote=swingerlover;1429194]and by the way: the remark "the ao gang there has turned that sub into a wasteland. completely useless." is also pretty useless, since there are only 13 out of 53 user threads in the germany partytreff clubs forum that deal with ao and 4 of those are practically dead.[/quote]you've missed the point. what about the other 40 threads? how dead are they now that the ao gang practically rule the partytreff section? i'm only speaking for my own here (and the few other mongers i've met and asked this of) but i feel the community has suffered because of the prevalence of the ao talk. you read this section the threads about unsafe sex. hell, we're not stupid. we'll not bother commenting or even come back. i try to occasionally post into the sections that don't have this conversation but the traffic is useless. it's like the definition of partytreff is now ao.

if i get kicked off, no matter. i want to belong to a community who can help decide the direction the forums take. promoting ao sex is unwise and pollutes the environment we all play in. you say it's personal choice. i say there's no such thing as the "peeing" part of the pool. it all mixes together.

you don't like being challenged. tough. these discussions are valuable to explore what the community thinks and where their real boundaries lie. every community has boundaries. it needs them. it doesn't need to be as extreme as child sex, forced sex or slavery. those are heinous and clear boundaries that the community works together to ferret out; but what about other positions that also endanger the community? this all started about whether someone who passed on a disease should be discussed here, and then it spiraled into what do we as a community owe to each other? information? discussion? if this all about "enterainment" then i don't want to belong to this place. google me; i'm no stranger to adult boards, and i've had years of support on this and other boards in holland, the us and thailand. i go with the flow and enjoy the banter, but when people promote stupid things, behaviours what clearly endanger this game we all play, well sorry. i'm going to fight you for it.

your group killed off the partytreff section. i'd much rather you not do that here.

[quote=woofiee; 1429406]you've missed the point. what about the other 40 threads? how dead are they now that the ao gang practically rule the partytreff section? i'm only speaking for my own here (and the few other mongers i've met and asked this of) but i feel the community has suffered because of the prevalence of the ao talk. you read this section the threads about unsafe sex. hell, we're not stupid. we'll not bother commenting or even come back. i try to occasionally post into the sections that don't have this conversation but the traffic is useless. it's like the definition of partytreff is now ao.

if i get kicked off, no matter. i want to belong to a community who can help decide the direction the forums take. promoting ao sex is unwise and pollutes the environment we all play in. you say it's personal choice. i say there's no such thing as the "peeing" part of the pool. it all mixes together.

you don't like being challenged. tough. these discussions are valuable to explore what the community thinks and where their real boundaries lie. every community has boundaries. it needs them. it doesn't need to be as extreme as child sex, forced sex or slavery. those are heinous and clear boundaries that the community works together to ferret out; but what about other positions that also endanger the community? this all started about whether someone who passed on a disease should be discussed here, and then it spiraled into what do we as a community owe to each other? information? discussion? if this all about "enterainment" then i don't want to belong to this place. google me; i'm no stranger to adult boards, and i've had years of support on this and other boards in holland, the us and thailand. i go with the flow and enjoy the banter, but when people promote stupid things, behaviours what clearly endanger this game we all play, well sorry. i'm going to fight you for it.

your group killed off the partytreff section. i'd much rather you not do that here.[/quote]and these rules are clear: do not argue about sexua lpractices, outside the specific thread.

whatever your specious arguments, if you don't like those rules, just leave this forum. and create yours. we'll se if you get a following there.

bye for now. i think you will be soon ousted anyway.

[QUOTE=Woofiee;1429406]You've missed the point.[/QUOTE]Well what is the point of starting a debate in a thread about AO clubs about whether the practice of AO is wrong or not? It's a bit like someone starting a debate in a thread about swinger's clubs about swinging being wrong as it may threaten the sanctity of marriage.

So what! Some people like to have bareback sex, others like to swing. They have made their lifestyle choices and that is why specialist threads concerning these activities have been allowed in order to help them with their choices.

Your arguments about AO being unacceptable may well have credence however they are best showcased in a thread specifically devoted to discussions about the merits of the AO practice. It is not fair for any member who is interested in finding about NRW AO clubs to read this thread and have to wade through multiple pages of debate about whether the practice of AO is acceptable or not thereby missing excellent field trip reports or discussion about AO clubs which other members have taken a lot of time, effort and thought to write.

[QUOTE=Wanking; 1267503]Woofie I have sent Jackson a pm asking him to remove the Bareback threads from the Partytreff forum, and to move them to our own dedicated Bareback forum called "Germany. Bareback Clubs". I have given Jackson a list of the Bareback Threads for the new forum.

I agree now that its not ideal having the bareback threads in the Partytreff forum, and I hope something will be done about it soon.

Of course a dedicated Bareback Forum will probably draw a few more flames, but since there are so many members here into the bareback scene, we deserve to have our place within ISG to discuss it.

For the record it was I who contacted Jackson a few years ago, to have the partytreff threads moved out of the FKK section and our own Partytreff forum was created, and I believe that was a positive move.

[B]So having a seperate Bareback forum away from both Partytreff and FKK forums is surely the way to go. [/B]

BTW I would envisage the new Bareback Forum to be for both flat rate and single service clubs, so for any clubs that are oriented towards bareback sex.[/QUOTE]This post was posted just over a year ago. The solution seems to be creating a bareback section.

[QUOTE=Wanking; 1267503]Woofie I have sent Jackson a pm asking him to remove the Bareback threads from the Partytreff forum, and to move them to our own dedicated Bareback forum called "Germany. Bareback Clubs". I have given Jackson a list of the Bareback Threads for the new forum.

I agree now that its not ideal having the bareback threads in the Partytreff forum, and I hope something will be done about it soon.

Of course a dedicated Bareback Forum will probably draw a few more flames, but since there are so many members here into the bareback scene, we deserve to have our place within ISG to discuss it.

For the record it was I who contacted Jackson a few years ago, to have the partytreff threads moved out of the FKK section and our own Partytreff forum was created, and I believe that was a positive move.

So having a seperate Bareback forum away from both Partytreff and FKK forums is surely the way to go.

BTW I would envisage the new Bareback Forum to be for both flat rate and single service clubs, so for any clubs that are oriented towards bareback sex.[/QUOTE]As Breadman suggests, I definitely also think that a re-organisation of both the Germany FKK Sauna Clubs and Germany Partytreff Forums are required. I have nothing against guys that practice AO if they want to but all their A0 talk is most definitely damaging to both of the above forums because it gives the impression (to newer ISG Members and Members not based in Germany / Europe) that this minority practice is a major part of the German Sex Scene. Smaller clubs like FKK Arabella, Villa Venus and Sauna Grimburg should definitely not be on the same level of prominence as FKK World, Oase, GoldenTime and Artemis and should be in a sub-forum such as Other FKK Clubs. I really think that we should be writing to "Jackson" (or the forum owners) to try and make this happen. I also think that we should be making more common cause with the Partytreff Guys who would be in agreement with the above mentioned ideas. The Partytreff Forum has gradually died a death because of this over emphasis with regards to AO Clubs and in my oppinion we should endeavour to prevent the same thing from happening in this forum. I would be interested in hearing what regular members of this forum think.

K

[quote=methuzela;1429346]buddy you are so way off the mark it is unbelievable. please try and keep up and stay with the program. i personally don't give a sh1t if these guys want to f#ck upside-down, back-to-front with or without condoms. nor could i give a rats ass let alone be concerned enough to try and convince them to use condoms. i could not care less. and yes i am very well aware that bareback is offered in all clubs. a little more surreptitiously in the bigger and glossier fkk and sauna clubs. what i do think is that the clubs in this particular thread (arabella / venus / grimberg) are third rate clubs, with third rate hookers (who because of age and poor looks offer bareback anal sex because that is the only way they can make a buck). i will leave it for others to decide if the clientele of these clubs are also third rate and cheap. i think to have these pathetic clubs on the same level as fkk palace / oase / world / goldentime / villa veretigo / artemis / paradise / colosseum is an absolute joke and very misleading for any new members who are thinking of visiting and experiencing fkk in germany. i definitely do think that this thread should be deleted or at the very least moved to the pathetic partytreff section. i wish that these guys would stay in their own pen and stay out of this fkk section. maybe if they scrape enough cash together to pay the entrance to a descent club they will realise what they are missing.[/quote]harsh. but perhaps not completely unfair and hard to completely disagree with all of the expressed sentiments.

[quote=woofiee; 1429406]it's like the definition of partytreff is now ao.

if i get kicked off, no matter. i want to belong to a community who can help decide the direction the forums take. promoting ao sex is unwise and pollutes the environment we all play in. you say it's personal choice. i say there's no such thing as the "peeing" part of the pool. it all mixes together.

you don't like being challenged.

your group killed off the partytreff section. i'd much rather you not do that here.[/quote]first: if the definition of partytreff would now be ao, then i would be extremely happy because i wouldn't have to drive over an hour and a half for ao parties.

second: i didn't suggest that you should get kicked off! that was aimed at the regular member who spread spite and venom only here in two of his only 16 overall posts.

third: if you want to help decide which direction the forum takes, then do so within the boundaries of the posting guidelines.

fourth: promoting ao sex is not unwise, it's the natural way to have sex and doesn't pollute anything. as for the "peeing part of the pool": i wish you would go after the cigarette smokers in most places with the same zeal.

fifth: it's not about being challenged. it's about being attaced frequently every few months for no longer obeying the stupid condom propaganda. man, you must really think this whole country is diseased.

sixth: it's not "my group". there were ao-threads in the partytreff forum long before i signed up to isg. and if no one writes in the other threads much anymore, maybe that has to do with not many people going there anymore? because i stopped going to partytreffs, as well as swingerclubs because of the lousy quality i got there, bad rubberfucking or even no fucking at all.

[quote=methuzela;1429346] i could not care less.[/quote]then why don't you just shut up!
it's amazing how a regular member with only (by now) 18 posts tries to command all others what to do and not to do. if you don't like the forum as it is, then leave. i sincerely hope jackson follows my advice and kicks you out!
in the meantime i demand that you abide by the forum's rules and posting guidelines!
[quote=kommodore;1429478] ao clubs and in my oppinion we should endeavour to prevent the same thing from happening in this forum. i would be interested in hearing what regular members of this forum think. [/quote]i would welcome a seperate bareback-only thread, i already suggested it to jackson too. applause to breadman here for digging up wanking's post about the request of a bareback forum; that is the post that i have been referring to as well. (now i know how to find it again, thanks.)

and i don't think you don't have to worry about ao ruining this forum. i think ao happens more at flatrate venues or apartments and private places than in fkks and compared to the partytreff forum and the regular germany forum, this fkk forum here is huge. so i don't think 3 threads (dvr, dietzenbach and this one here; where's the fkk alina thread?) will kill this forum.

There is now a definite need to reorganise the Germany FKK Section and Partytreff Section. A0 Style Bareback clubs should be allowed their own section. Until this happens, for information purposes, I think that from time to time different Senior Members of this forum should post the following message (please see below) or a similar message in this section (i.e. FKK Arabella, Villa Venus and Sauna Grimberg Section). This way the clientele of these clubs can post away all they desire but new visitors to this section will soon realise that these clubs are not the norm and do not represent a true FKK experience. Please let me know if you think this message can be improved upon. Please pm me if you wish. Please also copy the message below and post said message again in this forum from time to time. Again I wish to reiterate that I do not have anything against those who wish to practice bareback sex, nor have I any intention of being offensive but I do think that it is important that new members are not confused about the club choices which are on offer in this forum.

[highlight][b]A message from some Germany FKK Senior Members to all who are new to the Germany – FKK Clubs Section of the International Sex Guide. [/b] [/highlight]

[b]WARNING[/b]: Please note that the clubs discussed in this section (i.e. FKK Arabella, Villa Venus and Sauna Grimberg) are very small shabby clubs with poor facilities which cater for a particular group of primarily German mongers who wish to practice bareback (A0) sex. The women working in these clubs are primarily of Romanian / Bulgarian origin with poor English language skills and are very often older and much less attractive than would be the norm in the larger FKK establishments. If A0 style sex is what you are after; well then you are definitely in the right place but if you are looking for a more up-market FKK experience with model type women, please refer to the following club list:

[s]Palace, Oase, Mainhatten, Sharks, World, Artemis, GoldenTime, Living Room, Acapulco, Samya, Parksauna Rezidenz, Magnum, Paradise, Colosseum, Villa Vertigo, Atmos and Bernds. [/s]

Sorry, but you can't do that. I don't know the women at either of those clubs, nor do I know how they look, nor do I know about the quality of the places.

But if you badmouth them like that on an open forum and ask to frequently repeat that by posting it over and over again with no comments on anything that you have recently experienced yourself, then that's slander! So they might get the police involved if you start a campaign like that!

May I remind everyone that they run a legitimate and licenced business?

If anyone dares to copy this remark I will call all three clubs myself and point them towards what is said about them in this thread! Then you can explain to the states attorney how you justify your slander in the name of rubber-fucking!

[QUOTE=SwingerLover;1429575]Sorry, but you can't do that.[/QUOTE]I just did.

[QUOTE=SwingerLover;1429575]If anyone dares to copy this remark I will call all three clubs myself and point them towards what is said about them in this thread! Then you can explain to the states attorney how you justify your slander in the name of rubber-fucking![/QUOTE]Sounds to me that you are a bit of a trouble maker Mr. SwingerLover. This has nothing to do with bareback sex but rather on the poor standard of these clubs and is posted for infromation purposes for any new member. You will find that the information posted is indeed very accurate.

Most of the guys on this forum are based abroad (UK, USA & Canada) I don't think that the States Attorney is going to fly across the seas over such a trivial issue. As for me you can send him my telephone number.

[QUOTE=Kommodore; 1429577]Sounds to me that you are a bit of a trouble maker Mr. SwingerLover.

Most of the guys on this forum are based abroad (UK, USA & Canada) I don't think that the States Attorney is going to fly across the seas over such a trivial issue. As for me you can send him my telephone number.[/QUOTE]It is YOU who is the troublemaker; making trouble for those clubs with no foundation whatsoever.

As for the States attorney: Well if you're out of his reach, then he will propably go after the forum. Which has it's server in Germany. So I guess it's about time that Jackson shuts you guys up for good!

[QUOTE=SwingerLover; 1429580]It is YOU who is the troublemaker; making trouble for those clubs with no foundation whatsoever.

As for the States attorney: Well if you're out of his reach, then he will propably go after the forum. Which has it's server in Germany. So I guess it's about time that Jackson shuts you guys up for good![/QUOTE]I am not making trouble for these clubs. I am just stating facts. The only reason you would go to these clubs is for bareback sex. The facilities are poor and the hookers are of a poor class indeed. At the very least not at the same level as the standard FKK girl. I am just trying to help new members understand that there is a major difference between these clubs and the Big Clubs in Hessen, NRW, Bavaria, Berlin (also Switzerland and Austria).

[QUOTE=Kommodore; 1429570]There is now a definite need to reorganise the Germany FKK Section and Partytreff Section. A0 Style Bareback clubs should be allowed their own section. Until this happens, for information purposes, I think that from time to time different Senior Members of this forum should post the following message (please see below) or a similar message in this section (I. E. FKK Arabella, Villa Venus and Sauna Grimberg Section). This way the clientele of these clubs can post away all they desire but new visitors to this section will soon realise that these clubs are not the norm and do not represent a true FKK experience. Please let me know if you think this message can be improved upon. Please pm me if you wish. Please also copy the message below and post said message again in this forum from time to time. Again I wish to reiterate that I do not have anything against those who wish to practice bareback sex, nor have I any intention of being offensive but I do think that it is important that new members are not confused about the club choices which are on offer in this forum.

[highlight][b]A message from some Germany FKK Senior Members to all who are new to the Germany – FKK Clubs Section of the International Sex Guide. [/b] [/highlight]

[b]WARNING[/b]: Please note that the clubs discussed in this section (I. E. FKK Arabella, Villa Venus and Sauna Grimberg) are very small shabby clubs with poor facilities which cater for a particular group of primarily German mongers who wish to practice bareback (A0) sex. The women working in these clubs are primarily of Romanian / Bulgarian origin with poor English language skills and are very often older and much less attractive than would be the norm in the larger FKK establishments. If A0 style sex is what you are after; well then you are definitely in the right place but if you are looking for a more up-market FKK experience with model type women, please refer to the following club list:

[s]Palace, Oase, Mainhatten, Sharks, World, Artemis, GoldenTime, Living Room, Acapulco, Samya, Parksauna Rezidenz, Magnum, Paradise, Colosseum, Villa Vertigo, Atmos and Bernds. [/s][/QUOTE]Agree with this 100%. I do not have anything against guys who want to visit bareback clubs and I do not think that this message is in any way offensive to them. You might consider taking out the word "shabby" as it is a little bit over the top although in fairness not all that far from the mark. Happy to post this message from time to time. New or visiting members need to be directed to the bigger FKK and Sauna Clubs. This message does not hinder anyone from posting reports/information in this particular section but does direct new or visiting members to the bigger establishments if they are not looking for bareback sex.

Also happy to post this message from time to time. Agree that the word "shabby" should be removed.

CD

[QUOTE=Kommodore; 1429570]but if you are looking for a more up-market FKK experience with model type women, please refer to the following club list:

[s]Palace, Oase, Mainhatten, Sharks, World, Artemis, GoldenTime, Living Room, Acapulco, Samya, Parksauna Rezidenz, Magnum, Paradise, Colosseum, Villa Vertigo, Atmos and Bernds. [/s][/QUOTE]Parksauna Rezidenz? When have you been there last time? Is anything improved there? The worst line-up I ever seen in my FKK practice was in PSR.

[QUOTE=Ossian;1429597]You might consider taking out the word "shabby" as it is a little bit over the top although in fairness not all that far from the mark.[/QUOTE]I am happy and content to remove the word "shabby".

[QUOTE=Jymondor;1429608]Parksauna Rezidenz? When have you been there last time? Is anything improved there? The worst line-up I ever seen in my FKK practice was in PSR.[/QUOTE]If you disagree that Parksauna Residenz should be part of this list please feel free to remove if you are posting this message. Personally I think it should be included.

[QUOTE=Kommodore;1429628]If you disagree that Parksauna Residenz should be part of this list please feel free to remove if you are posting this message. Personally I think it should be included.[/QUOTE]No, I just wondering if any improvement there. Such a great facility and so depressive lineup.

[QUOTE=Breadman;1429469]This post was posted just over a year ago. The solution seems to be creating a bareback section.[/QUOTE]This would be a good solution.

[quote=methuzela;1429346]buddy you are so way off the mark it is unbelievable. please try and keep up and stay with the program. i personally don't give a sh1t if these guys want to f#ck upside-down, back-to-front with or without condoms. nor could i give a rats ass let alone be concerned enough to try and convince them to use condoms. i could not care less. and yes i am very well aware that bareback is offered in all clubs. a little more surreptitiously in the bigger and glossier fkk and sauna clubs. what i do think is that the clubs in this particular thread (arabella / venus / grimberg) are third rate clubs, with third rate hookers (who because of age and poor looks offer bareback anal sex because that is the only way they can make a buck). i will leave it for others to decide if the clientele of these clubs are also third rate and cheap. i think to have these pathetic clubs on the same level as fkk palace / oase / world / goldentime / villa veretigo / artemis / paradise / colosseum is an absolute joke and very misleading for any new members who are thinking of visiting and experiencing fkk in germany. i definitely do think that this thread should be deleted or at the very least moved to the pathetic partytreff section. i wish that these guys would stay in their own pen and stay out of this fkk section. maybe if they scrape enough cash together to pay the entrance to a descent club they will realise what they are missing.[/quote]i have ben to so called "high class" clubs for many years, and enjoyed them.

but now, i prefer those less pretentious clubs that you call "third rate".

if you had been there yourself, you would have seen lots of very friendly and pretty girls. indeed, there are fewer ee optifuck girls, but also far less, if any,"divas" like you find in those big clubs. and no upsell in the room etc.

i fully understand those who prefer the big clubs, because of the installations, food and bigger number of girls. the fact that i don't rate them as my first preference does not mean i have to go on their thread to rubbish them.

but why you can't understand other's preference for smaller clubs, and feel the need to insult us all, mongers, clubs, girls who like them, i don't get.

this intolerance is a sad reflexion of the person you are.

[QUOTE=Dreams; 1429745]If you had been there yourself, you would have seen lots of very friendly and pretty girls. Indeed, there are fewer EE optifuck girls, but also far less, if any,"divas" like you find in those big clubs.

But why you can't understand other's preference for smaller clubs, and feel the need to insult us all, mongers, clubs, girls who like them, I don't get.

This intolerance is a sad reflexion of the person you are.[/QUOTE]Dreams. Just to echo your comments. The service in these clubs (where you can use or not use a condom according to your choice), can be as good, and better, as in any of the so-called "high class" clubs, and if anything, the girls are more open and natural than in the "high class" clubs.

Methuzela just clutters the threads with intolerance and arrogance

Kommodore's assessment of these clubs does not seem to be based on any reality I've come across. Ok the facilities are limited and the food almost non-existent, but the service offered by the girls is often extremely good. The reason why someone would visit these clubs and do rubber sex is because the price is cheaper (three sessions say 120euro compared to 210 euro in a "high class" club. So if you don't need food or swimming pool these clubs offer a good deal for the local clientele

[QUOTE=Ossian;1429597]New or visiting members need to be directed to the bigger FKK and Sauna Clubs.[/QUOTE]Why? Don't you think they can make up their own minds?

[QUOTE=Captain Dan;1429603]Also happy to post this message from time to time. Agree that the word "shabby" should be removed.[/QUOTE]So this was your first post ever on ISG. Remarkable. Agreeing to post a business-damaging message from time to time as a first post.

How about we implement this strategy on all the clubs? I've been told lately that at some of those oh so "high class" FKKs half hours have been cut down to 25 minutes by the women, so they could charge for an additional half hour. And this was not just one single incident. The guys who told me this now rather go to DVR, where the girls don't seem to even know what a clock is when they are with a guy, or go to AO flatrate parties, where I have met them and got this information.

So how about putting up a little text similar to Kommodore's below and frequently post that in every thread about the respective clubs? Wouldn't that be something "new or visiting members need to be directed to"?

Anyhow, the attitudes and remarks of the people writing in this FKK-forum have definitely killed any last curiosity I might still have had about giving an FKK a try. Not with such customers being around. I'd rather go to AO-parties, where everybody is nice any friendly and treats everybod decently. And the guys I met who ran screaming from the so-called "high class" FKKs see it exactly my way.

And by the way: You might have noticed that I did NOT name any of those clubs I had been told about. Since I haven't been there myself, it's not my place to single them out here and badmouth them in front of everybody.

[QUOTE=Dreams; 1429745]But why you can't understand other's preference for smaller clubs, and feel the need to insult us all, mongers, clubs, girls who like them, I don't get.

This intolerance is a sad reflexion of the person you are.[/QUOTE]Yes I don't understand it either. Since no such people appear at the AO parties, I'm pretty sure I'm going to exactly the right places. FKK-clubs however will be off my radar for good now.

Presumably Captain Dan is a resurrection of Capt Dan (who is the only member I ever put on my ignore list).

Maybe a real report would be in order?

I went on the all-inclusive day, turning up at opening time. There is a comfortable main room, a friendly bar woman, and limited other facilities (sauna I think). Food was delivered at 13. 00 (lasagne and another dish). Free soft and hot drinks were available. There were four women there. One was good looking slim, one medium build, one tending to large, and one built like an overflowing jelly (sorry but I am just trying to make a description).

You can do six sessions for the price. I did four, including two girls at once, and was very happy with the service. I didn't go with the very large woman. I am 90% sure one of the girls came (just trying to indicate the level of service) , the other two were friendly and made a real effort.

So I got four sessions for 129 euro (if I remember right) , compared to 260 euro at a "high class" FKK. I left soon after 13. 00, although I understand that other girls turn up later.

When you choose a girl she will assume you want to use a condom. Whether you do or not is up to you

Just to echo Dreams and Optimist (and I really don't agree with Dreams on what stuff should and shouldn't be mentioned on this board) , the service, attitude and fun in these clubs can take the pepsi test with any of the 'bigger' clubs. Far less divas, girls joking around and having fun with each other and regulars (or anyone who seems to respond). A couple of these clubs really screwed up my price-quality preconceptions.

You will probably find more 'models' in GT, Oase, World; but there are plenty young (teens and early twenties) and nice looking EE girls as well. In any case, far better looking than what I've encountered in Bernds (fi).

Not just the AO clubs, but many smaller family like clubs in the Pott like Neby and Luderlounge have a similar dynamic.

[QUOTE=SwingerLover;1429805]So how about putting up a little text similar to Kommodore's below and frequently post that in every thread about the respective clubs? Wouldn't that be something "new or visiting members need to be directed to"?[/QUOTE]Once you obey the rules of this forum you are entitled to post what you like where you like, as am I or anyone else. Anyone is entitled to post in the Germany FKK Clubs Section of this forum as indeed they are entitled to post over in the Partytreff Section. Post what you want where you want. It is of no concern to me.

[QUOTE=Free Dude; 1429821]Far less divas, girls joking around and having fun with each other and regulars (or anyone who seems to respond). A couple of these clubs really screwed up my price-quality preconceptions.

Hi,

I certainly agree to this.

I shall visit Arabella to the weekend, all sex will be AM ("alles mit")

Regards.

BL

[QUOTE=Optimist;1429809]Presumably Captain Dan is a resurrection of Capt Dan (who is the only member I ever put on my ignore list).[/QUOTE]Sorry to hear that you are still bearing miffed about something said (written) a long time ago. I met your partner Cordelia in FKK World many moons ago and she did seem like a nice lady (perhaps a bit unconventional but nevertheless a nice lady). Anyway we may not agree on some issues but I applaud your contributions to this forum and wish you well.

CD

Strange discussion. I happen to like snd visit most of the large FKK and saunaclubs, in NRW and Hessen, already for more than 8 years, but I also like the smaller, more intimate places. And also I visited many ero parties (NOT Partytreffs, for me most of them lack atmospehere). This is totally NOT related to the fact if a club or partry (treff) , or (some) girls there, offer AO or not. There are pure AO clubs / party (treffs) but also the ones that claim to be NO-AO, have girls that offer AO, yes, also in the large clean, and high-class clubs.

Especially this forum is mend to give and find information about a club / party (treff) and the girls working there. And every one can do with this information what he (or she?) wants:

- If you read a club is pure AO, and you want it, you can go, if you don't want it, avoid.

- If you read about smaller clubs that offer intimate and natural setting, with high-service girls, and no " high class sharks", and you want it, you can go, if you like high-class sharks, you avoid these clubs.

- If you read about larger upscale clubs, that offer many low service girls, but have great food and swimming pool, and you want it, you can go, if you like high service of the girls, you avoid.

- etc etc.

If it is clear in what category a club / party (treff) but also a specific girl fits, that is interesting information. To write in every post "Danger, watch out for all the AO girls in Villa Venus" is as useless as to write "Danger, watch out for all the sharks in Golden Time with low-service".)

Please respect each others choice and taste, and newbees are not naief: they read several messages about a club, and will get the picture. If they visit the club, theu see the picture in real life.

[QUOTE=Kommodore; 1429570][highlight][b]A message from some Germany FKK Senior Members to all who are new to the Germany – FKK Clubs Section of the International Sex Guide. [/b] [/highlight]

[b]WARNING[/b]: The women working in these clubs are very often older and much less attractive than would be the norm in the larger FKK establishments. If A0 style sex is what you are after; well then you are definitely in the right place but if you are looking for a more up-market FKK experience with model type women, please refer to the following club list:

[s]Palace, Oase, Mainhatten, Sharks, World, Artemis, GoldenTime, Living Room, Acapulco, Samya, Parksauna Rezidenz, Magnum, Paradise, Colosseum, Villa Vertigo, Atmos and Bernds. [/s][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Kommodore;1429582]I am not making trouble for these clubs. I am just stating facts. The facilities are poor and the hookers are of a poor class indeed. At the very least not at the same level as the standard FKK girl [/QUOTE]

I infer from what you say then that attractive, model type girls can only really be found in non AO FKK type clubs. Well Club Angelique is an AO FKK club with similar business model as Arabella, Villa Venus and Sauna Grimberg and by following your command er, sorry I meant advice, the readers on here who want attractive women (AO or non AO) would end up never go there. Because according to you and your cohorts you can have attractive women or AO but not both.

[url]http://www.joyclub.de/my/fotoalbum/1994883.club_angelique.html[/url]

Hmmn, the women here don't look too shabby to me though.

Hmmn, the women here don't look too shabby to me though.[/QUOTE]Well, Thanks to kommodore and his absurd comments about the fat, old and ugly girls that are supposed to clog our favouite clubs, (how does he know, he has never been there?) , many more mongers will now know that those clubs are definitively a very nice, cheaper option that some of the big FKKs. Without him, surely far less guys would have posted their positive experiences!

From all the girls in those clubs, a very big thank you to you, Kommodore!

[QUOTE=Myrrh;1429935]Club Angelique is an AO FKK club with similar business model as Arabella, Villa Venus and Sauna Grimberg[/QUOTE]The warning message clearly refers only to Arabella, Villa Venus and Sauna Grimberg (as this is the thread which it will be posted in) and the standard of hardware and software in these clubs. Club Angelique is not part of this thread. Besides as stated previously I am not against AO clubs and the practice of AO sex. I just don't like tacky clubs whether they are A0 or not.

K

[QUOTE=Methuzela; 1429797]Maybes we should post similar type messages over in the German Partytreff Forum warning about the standard of the clubs and the quality of the hookers?

Just a thought which may very well soon become reality.[/QUOTE]Interesting idea but perhaps a little too provocative. I prefer (for the moment) to limit myself to the FKK Clubs Section (as this is my interest). Still a very interesting notion :)

K

Club Angelique does charge 50€ for 30min non BB sex, right?

HB

[QUOTE=Myrrh;1429935]Club Angelique is an AO FKK club with similar business model as Arabella, Villa Venus and Sauna Grimberg[/QUOTE]Disagree. Angelique is quite different. I heard that Angelique is owned (or at least managed) by the girls. I guess Alisa and Alina. Totally different ambiance. Better service, better girls and significantly higher price. V-Venus and Arabella can be called FKK. Angelique is more like a private club or brothel.

[QUOTE=Hessen Bub; 1429950]Club Angelique does charge 50€ for 30min non BB sex, right?

HB[/QUOTE]No. 50€ is for 30 min covered. AO is 30€ extra. 1/2 hour AO = 80€. 1 hour AO = 110€. However some days they have discounts. There are also flatrate parties on case to case base.

[QUOTE=Jymondor;1429955]No. 50€ is for 30 min covered. AO is 30€ extra. 1/2 hour AO = 80€. 1 hour AO = 110€. However some days they have discounts. There are also flatrate parties on case to case base.[/QUOTE]That's what I said. It's 50€/30min [b]non BB[/B] Sex. So that's the normal tariff like in a "decent" FKK club. Just my 0, 02€.

HB

[QUOTE=Hessen Bub; 1429964]That's what I said. It's 50€/30min [b]non BB[/B] Sex. So that's the normal tariff like in a "decent" FKK club. Just my 0, 02€.

HB[/QUOTE]That's correct. And some girls quality and service level is as in a 'decent' FKK as well. But ambiance is not even close.

Sounds to me that Angelique is a much more sensible club to have it's own thread as opposed to the tacky threesome that is Arabella, Venus and Grimberg!

At least the hookers look presentable!

K

[QUOTE=Kommodore; 1429980]Sounds to me that Angelique is a much more sensible club to have it's own thread as opposed to the tacky threesome that is Arabella, Venus and Grimberg!

At least the hookers look presentable!

K[/QUOTE]I am not sure in which forum should be this thread. This is neither FKK nor Partytreff. They call themselves "Club Angelique". Freirercafe treats them as FKK, but I would say that this club is unique.

Only 7 girls work there. Is that enough for the thread?

[QUOTE=Maxime; 1429926]Strange discussion. I happen to like snd visit most of the large FKK and saunaclubs, in NRW and Hessen, already for more than 8 years, but I also like the smaller, more intimate places. And also I visited many ero parties (NOT Partytreffs, for me most of them lack atmospehere). This is totally NOT related to the fact if a club or partry (treff) , or (some) girls there, offer AO or not. There are pure AO clubs / party (treffs) but also the ones that claim to be NO-AO, have girls that offer AO, yes, also in the large clean, and high-class clubs.

Especially this forum is mend to give and find information about a club / party (treff) and the girls working there. And every one can do with this information what he (or she?) wants:

- If you read a club is pure AO, and you want it, you can go, if you don't want it, avoid.

- If you read about smaller clubs that offer intimate and natural setting, with high-service girls, and no " high class sharks", and you want it, you can go, if you like high-class sharks, you avoid these clubs.

- If you read about larger upscale clubs, that offer many low service girls, but have great food and swimming pool, and you want it, you can go, if you like high service of the girls, you avoid.

- etc etc.

If it is clear in what category a club / party (treff) but also a specific girl fits, that is interesting information. To write in every post "Danger, watch out for all the AO girls in Villa Venus" is as useless as to write "Danger, watch out for all the sharks in Golden Time with low-service".)

Please respect each others choice and taste, and newbees are not naief: they read several messages about a club, and will get the picture. If they visit the club, theu see the picture in real life.[/QUOTE]Thanks for quite a sensible response. I'm not sure why certain members have taken such a harsh position, but their descriptions of the clubs and the girls do not match my experience. I have visited both Villa Venus and FKK Dietzenbach in addition to several of the large clubs like Oase and Colosseum. I enjoy both the large and small clubs.

1. When I visited Dietzenbach there were several girls who only provide with condoms and those who offer AO likewise offered condoms. Moreover, I found the girls to be quite attractive and I enjoyed the small, intimate atmosphere as a contrast to the large, busy atmosphere of Oase. Perhaps not for a long period, but for a short visit I found it to be very pleasant.

2. Villa Venus was likewise a pleasant club. In contrast to several of the descriptions below, I found that many of the girls were young, attractive and fun. They all offered condoms, though not all required their use.

I'm at a loss to figure out who Kommodore and others are trying to protect with their warning. But I would hope it wouldn't be people like me. I'm quite capable of making my own decisions based on the reviews I read by people who have actually visited the clubs. From Kommodore's description I can only conclude he has not visited the clubs.

[QUOTE=PacificRim;1430027]I'm at a loss to figure out who Kommodore and others are trying to protect with their warning. But I would hope it wouldn't be people like me. I'm quite capable of making my own decisions based on the reviews I read by people who have actually visited the clubs. From Kommodore's description I can only conclude he has not visited the clubs.[/QUOTE]You said it all.

Kommodore has not yet stated whether he actually ever visited any of the clubs he vilifies.

But the only result is to bring in every day more positive comments form people like you, who may not have posted them if he had not interfered.

I am quite sure that, instead of "protecting" people, (how arrogant and paternalistic can you be!) that is, in his views, preventing them to visit those clubs, this discussion actually incites more guys to visit! So let him be thanked for that!

[QUOTE=Captain Dan; 1429872]Sorry to hear that you are still bearing miffed about something said (written) a long time ago. I met your partner Cordelia in FKK World many moons ago and she did seem like a nice lady (perhaps a bit unconventional but nevertheless a nice lady). Anyway we may not agree on some issues but I applaud your contributions to this forum and wish you well.

CD[/QUOTE]Hi. I guess a public apology from me is in order. Thanks for your best wishes and teaching me a lesson:)

[QUOTE=Dreams;1430160]So let him be thanked for that![/QUOTE]You are most welcome :)

K

[QUOTE=Jymondor; 1429989]I am not sure in which forum should be this thread. This is neither FKK nor Partytreff. They call themselves "Club Angelique". Freirercafe treats them as FKK, but I would say that this club is unique.

Only 7 girls work there. Is that enough for the thread?[/QUOTE]I don't dispute that it is possible to have a good time in these clubs particularly if your preference is for bareback sex. However none of these small specialist clubs with few girls (and in some cases girls of questionable quality) and poor facilities should be on the same level as the BIG clubs in Frankfurt, Berlin, Stuttgart etc etc. The board needs to be reorganised and these smaller specialist clubs should either get their own seperate forum or be pushed into a sub-directory off the Other FKK Clubs thread. Until then warning messages should definitely be posted.

K

[QUOTE=Jymondor;1429952]Disagree. Angelique is quite different. I heard that Angelique is owned (or at least managed) by the girls. I guess Alisa and Alina. Totally different ambiance. Better service, better girls and significantly higher price. V-Venus and Arabella can be called FKK. Angelique is more like a private club or brothel.[/QUOTE]A private club is one where membership is required for entry. ALL of the places mentioned in this forum are brothels.

It should be borne in mind that some of the girls at Angelique (including Deea and Arianna) moved there from Club la Luna, the club famous for it's 'any guy can just simply walk in off the street and participate in a 4-girl bareback sperm donor gangbang session'. So hardly classy.

I think it is helpful to just have two classification of these pay-for-play clubs. Partytreff which is flat rate and FKK where you pay per session. For FKK strictly speaking I believe the girls need to walk around naked and there needs to be sauna facilities, a wet area and so forth. However what is most important is whether you pay a flat rate or per session, everything else is just incidental.

[QUOTE=Myrrh;1430345]A private club is one where membership is required for entry. ALL of the places mentioned in this forum are brothels.[/QUOTE]Agree. Brothel would be a proper definition.

[QUOTE=Myrrh;1430345]It should be borne in mind that some of the girls at Angelique (including Deea and Arianna) moved there from Club la Luna, the club famous for it's 'any guy can just simply walk in off the street and participate in a 4-girl bareback sperm donor gangbang session'. So hardly classy.[/QUOTE]I did not sessioned neither with Deea nor with Arianna, so I cannot judge. I know that Deea has mixed reports on Freircafe thread. At the time I visited Viersen she worked in Dusiburg location. At my experience service level at Angelique level better than in La Luna. I believe that same girl can perform differently in different clubs depending on management and atmosphere.

[QUOTE=Kommodore; 1430340]The board needs to be reorganised and these smaller specialist clubs should either get their own seperate forum or be pushed into a sub-directory off the Other FKK Clubs thread. Until then warning messages should definitely be posted.

K[/QUOTE]This thread is more active than many many threads dedicated to some 'classy' clubs. So why it has to pushed somewhere? And what warning message should be posted? There is a warning message on the front page. It is very clear:

[quote]Warning: These pages contain sexual content that may be offensive to some readers. This content is intended to be viewed by those over 18 (or 21 in some countries). To protect our users from viewing adult-oriented material without their consent, you are required to read the following statements before continuing. By entering this site, you certify that you are of legal age, and that you consent to viewing adult-oriented material. If you do not wish to view such material please leave now.[/quote]

Thanks Optimist for an actual review which is already buried.

[QUOTE=Optimist; 1429813]Maybe a real report would be in order?

I went on the all-inclusive day, turning up at opening time. There is a comfortable main room, a friendly bar woman, and limited other facilities (sauna I think). Food was delivered at 13. 00 (lasagne and another dish). Free soft and hot drinks were available. There were four women there. One was good looking slim, one medium build, one tending to large, and one built like an overflowing jelly (sorry but I am just trying to make a description).

You can do six sessions for the price. I did four, including two girls at once, and was very happy with the service. I didn't go with the very large woman. I am 90% sure one of the girls came (just trying to indicate the level of service) , the other two were friendly and made a real effort.

So I got four sessions for 129 euro (if I remember right) , compared to 260 euro at a "high class" FKK. I left soon after 13. 00, although I understand that other girls turn up later.

When you choose a girl she will assume you want to use a condom. Whether you do or not is up to you[/QUOTE]

The girls of these clubs are very good. Maybe they are not model like but the level of service they offer is great. Most of them are always polite and follow the instructions of the client. I will visit this club again. Can anybody suggest any specific madams in these clubs that are offering bareback anal? I remember some girls in these clubs that they were offering anal sex and anal creampie without condom but I do not remember their names. I had a great time with them! I assume that there will still be such bareaback anal girls. I remember a blonde Romanian girl who told me that she does not like condoms in anal sex because men can cum easier and more quickly when they fuck her ass bareback. Most girls in these clubs are coming from Bulgaria and Romania. But I would also like to see some black, asian and arabic women. I hope that the girls of thiese clubs will continue to offer such a high level of service.

[QUOTE=Kommodore; 1430336]You are most welcome.

K[/QUOTE]It would be nice if you could say clearly whether your opinions on those clubs is based on second hand info, or whetehr you actually went there, even once, yourself. A bit of honesty would not harm, would'nt it?

Pl continue though to brag about this, this thread is now one of the most active FKK thread, and everyday brings in more guys reporting their positive experience there.

My fear is that those clubs wil now be too crowded soon.

[url]http://www.joyclub.de/my/fotoalbum/1994883.club_angelique.html[/url]

I'm honestly scared but tempted by AO, but if it has to happen let it be there, at least the first time (if ever). Next month I'll be around, I think I'll go there for sure, and then I'll see if adding 30 euros or not.

I'm following this debate that's been going on for a while now, taking this thread among the busiest ones. Since I'm a beginner to german mongering, I give my newbie opinion, which can humbly be taken into account since part of the debate is to warn beginners or "virgins" of Germany about quality, prices, performances, etc.

As Maxime pointed out, everybody can choose and make up their minds by themselves. We're all old enough to be able to make our choices, everybody must be free to choose what they prefer, and take responsibility for that. Personally I'm against AO, but if some girls provide it and some men want it, it's their business, not other people's business. As I said, I'm very tempted, but if I go for it and come out with a problem, I'll have to blame only myself, nobody forced me to do it, it would be stupid to complain over those who do AO and post about, it's true I'd probably never find out about openly advertised AO without reading ISG, but again I chose freely.

On the other hand, it's true that the quality of girls, without mentioning the facilities, in Artemis and of those in Caligula or treff188 can't be compared, not even by minding only their toes, and now I'm talking of places where I have been personally. I've seen the pics of some girls of AO clubs and I admit the evidence, it's true they are not at all the same quality of those of big FKKs, but I find incorrect to say that they are so ugly that only by doing AO they can work, because also in other FKKs you can find low quality girls (I've been in Haus-Panthera) , not only in AO and flatrates clubs.

About classifying threads and clubs, I think that AO should have a whole thread apart, the other one being "normal", non AO, then there could be the various divisions: FKK, brothel, flatrate, etc, so one can choose the main topic catching his interest at once and then go down the various structures of treff, GB, FKK, etc.

Also, even if, again, I agree AO is a dangerous practice and shouldn't be advertised too much (as Dreams said these clubs may get overcrowded, therefore increasing the chances of possible infections) , AO is quite hidden in the forum, an outer reader wouldn't find out without digging german threads, I don't know if it's done intentionally. I'm not good at all at using computer, but I don't even visualize partytreff section, nor by entry main page nor by "forum".

Being a Whormany beginner and a computer illiterate I fully fit the description of the subject and qualify to express my opinions.

Greetings to all debaters

[QUOTE=Dreams; 1430543]It would be nice if you could say clearly whether your opinions on those clubs is based on second hand info, or whetehr you actually went there, even once, yourself. A bit of honesty would not harm, would'nt it?

Pl continue though to brag about this, this thread is now one of the most active FKK thread, and everyday brings in more guys reporting their positive experience there.

My fear is that those clubs wil now be too crowded soon.[/QUOTE]I have been to many many many many clubs of different types and sizes the length and breath of Deutschland (and beyond) including some of those referred to in this thread. I'm sorry if I cannot share your enthusiasm for these smaller tackier establishments. I could not care less how crowded or not these clubs are as a result of these posts. I am not naive enough to actually consider that these posts make much difference. Good luck to the owners if these clubs happen to be full to the rafters with customers.

Unfortunately you have a tendancy to deride those who debate with you and to ridicule their opinions. Nor will I continue to endlessly debate this topic. There can be no consensus achieved in this manner. I suggest you continue to post what you want in this thread. As will I.

K

[QUOTE=Maxime; 1429926]Strange discussion. I happen to like snd visit most of the large FKK and saunaclubs, in NRW and Hessen, already for more than 8 years, but I also like the smaller, more intimate places. And also I visited many ero parties (NOT Partytreffs, for me most of them lack atmospehere). This is totally NOT related to the fact if a club or partry (treff) , or (some) girls there, offer AO or not. There are pure AO clubs / party (treffs) but also the ones that claim to be NO-AO, have girls that offer AO, yes, also in the large clean, and high-class clubs.

Especially this forum is mend to give and find information about a club / party (treff) and the girls working there. And every one can do with this information what he (or she?) wants:

- If you read a club is pure AO, and you want it, you can go, if you don't want it, avoid.

- If you read about smaller clubs that offer intimate and natural setting, with high-service girls, and no " high class sharks", and you want it, you can go, if you like high-class sharks, you avoid these clubs.

- If you read about larger upscale clubs, that offer many low service girls, but have great food and swimming pool, and you want it, you can go, if you like high service of the girls, you avoid.

- etc etc.

If it is clear in what category a club / party (treff) but also a specific girl fits, that is interesting information. To write in every post "Danger, watch out for all the AO girls in Villa Venus" is as useless as to write "Danger, watch out for all the sharks in Golden Time with low-service".)

Please respect each others choice and taste, and newbees are not naief: they read several messages about a club, and will get the picture. If they visit the club, theu see the picture in real life.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=PacificRim;1430027]Thanks for quite a sensible response. I'm not sure why certain members have taken such a harsh position, but their descriptions of the clubs and the girls do not match my experience. I have visited both Villa Venus and FKK Dietzenbach in addition to several of the large clubs like Oase and Colosseum. I enjoy both the large and small clubs.[/QUOTE]You're welcome.)

It seems some people can only re-state their opinion, over and over, until other people agree with them. Ignore it, and make up your own opinion, about FKK, about PC, about AO, etc. There can not be too much information on a forum like this. Censoring or biased warnings are very bad for transparancy and make it harder to make a fair opinion for readers.

And now enjoy clubbing and let's hope somebody write about the mentioned clubs again.)

[QUOTE=Maxime;1431106]It seems some people can only re-state their opinion, over and over, until other people agree with them. Ignore it, and make up your own opinion, about FKK, about PC, about AO, etc. There can not be too much information on a forum like this. Censoring or biased warnings are very bad for transparancy and make it harder to make a fair opinion for readers.[/QUOTE]You know, the only people here trying to stop anyone from writing this tend to be the AO gang. They've tried to get me banned and my posts removed (and I did get slapped for calling a member here the I-word, because—as you know—it's okay to misrepresent members or threaten them, but you can't call them a name. That's baaaad.)

I never said they shouldn't post. I maintain AO doesn't belong in the FKK thread. I believe they need their own section under Germany.

I also said I disapprove of it, and while I can't tell others to do rubber-up, I think it's dangerous to promote unsafe sex here on ISG.

I maintain that if the talk of AO bleeds into the FKK forums, as it has in the Partytreff subgroup, it will become a problem.

Unfortunately I have to write this in single sentences as my arguments either get mangled or misrepresented. I am not censoring anyone. But certainly others seem quite happy to have Jackson censor me.

(EDIT: the system interprets semi-colons as full stops, so they've been converted to em-dashs.)

Guys, if you don't like thee clubs partucularly or AO in general please do not post in this thead. Please remember that we visit this forum to exchange information that will help in mongering experience. Now it is difficult to find useful info in this thread due to useless discussions.

Please ceate a thread "AO pros and cons" and discuss there.

Thank you.

Sorry for poor grammar. I am writting on my tablet sitting on Pantherras upper terrase. BTW lineup looks like disaster.

[font=tahoma][i][b]Advisory Message from some Germany FKK Senior Members to all who are new to the Germany – FKK Clubs Section of the International Sex Guide:[/b]

The women working in these clubs are very often older and less attractive than would be the norm in the larger FKK establishments. The facilities available in these clubs are also somewhat limited.

If A0 style sex (bareback sex) is what you are after; well then you are definitely in the right place but if you are looking for a more up-market FKK experience with model type women, please refer to the following club list:

[font=+1]Palace, Oase, Mainhatten, Sharks, World, Artemis, GoldenTime, Living Room, Acapulco, Samya, Parksauna Rezidenz, Magnum, Paradise, Colosseum, Villa Vertigo, Atmos and Bernds. [/font]

[blue]====================================================

To Captain Dan and all of your multiple alises,

This is the last time you will post this message.

Thanks,

Jackson[/blue]

[QUOTE=Jymondor;1431436]Sorry for poor grammar. I am writting on my tablet sitting on Pantherras upper terrase. BTW lineup looks like disaster.[/QUOTE]Poor line up on Friday? There were (more than) 20 girls, with top ones like Diana, Andrea, Jacky, Veronica, Elena, Denisa, Sabrina, etc. Maybe they were downstairs in the "garden" while you were sitting on the terrace?.)

Hope they will make a whirlpool on the roof terrace soon!

[QUOTE=Maxime; 1431661]Poor line up on Friday? There were (more than) 20 girls, with top ones like Diana, Andrea, Jacky, Veronica, Elena, Denisa, Sabrina, etc. Maybe they were downstairs in the "garden" while you were sitting on the terrace.)

Hope they will make a whirlpool on the roof terrace soon![/QUOTE]Lineup was improved at about 8:00-8:30 PM. Actually Panthetra's layout makes difficult to see all the girls in Summer time. There are few separate places where girls hanging: upper terrace, yard (cannot call it garden) , main room, gambling machines corner, and that strange room with the beds in the middle.

[QUOTE=Jymondor;1431436]Guys, if you don't like thee clubs partucularly or AO in general please do not post in this thread.[/QUOTE]Further to that, it should be clear that any people with objections to AO, should not even be wasting their time reading this thread. I only looked in here out of curiosity as I did not know what it was about. Little reason for me to come back, as I monger in usually Frankfurt in more conventional FKKs.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1431767]Further to that, it should be clear that any people with objections to AO, should not even be wasting their time reading this thread. I only looked in here out of curiosity as I did not know what it was about. Little reason for me to come back, as I monger in usually Frankfurt in more conventional FKKs.[/QUOTE]A very good stance on forum usage, and I don't want to 'argue' any point.

I just thought it might be funny to point out that these kind of clubs (RTC's) have been around a lot longer than the 'conventional FKK's' and are much more like the 'original' Bernds, than any of the grand 'quality' clubs. Interesting how norms and conventions get formed;).

[QUOTE=EastGoing; 1430603][url]http://www.joyclub.de/my/fotoalbum/1994883.club_angelique.html[/url]

I'm honestly scared but tempted by AO, but if it has to happen let it be there, at least the first time (if ever). Next month I'll be around, I think I'll go there for sure, and then I'll see if adding 30 euros or not.

I'm following this debate that's been going on for a while now, taking this thread among the busiest ones. Since I'm a beginner to german mongering, I give my newbie opinion, which can humbly be taken into account since part of the debate is to warn beginners or "virgins" of Germany about quality, prices, performances, etc.

As Maxime pointed out, everybody can choose and make up their minds by themselves. We're all old enough to be able to make our choices, everybody must be free to choose what they prefer, and take responsibility for that. Personally I'm against AO, but if some girls provide it and some men want it, it's their business, not other people's business. As I said, I'm very tempted, but if I go for it and come out with a problem, I'll have to blame only myself, nobody forced me to do it, it would be stupid to complain over those who do AO and post about, it's true I'd probably never find out about openly advertised AO without reading ISG, but again I chose freely.

On the other hand, it's true that the quality of girls, without mentioning the facilities, in Artemis and of those in Caligula or treff188 can't be compared, not even by minding only their toes, and now I'm talking of places where I have been personally. I've seen the pics of some girls of AO clubs and I admit the evidence, it's true they are not at all the same quality of those of big FKKs, but I find incorrect to say that they are so ugly that only by doing AO they can work, because also in other FKKs you can find low quality girls (I've been in Haus-Panthera) , not only in AO and flatrates clubs.

About classifying threads and clubs, I think that AO should have a whole thread apart, the other one being "normal", non AO, then there could be the various divisions: FKK, brothel, flatrate, etc, so one can choose the main topic catching his interest at once and then go down the various structures of treff, GB, FKK, etc.

Also, even if, again, I agree AO is a dangerous practice and shouldn't be advertised too much (as Dreams said these clubs may get overcrowded, therefore increasing the chances of possible infections) , AO is quite hidden in the forum, an outer reader wouldn't find out without digging german threads, I don't know if it's done intentionally. I'm not good at all at using computer, but I don't even visualize partytreff section, nor by entry main page nor by "forum".

Being a Whormany beginner and a computer illiterate I fully fit the description of the subject and qualify to express my opinions.

Greetings to all debaters[/QUOTE]Great choice. Was my first time AO choice in Germany as well and had Alina. Enjoyed it so much that I ended up coming back to her every day for my whole 4 day trip to Viersen. Wasn't my first AO experience with a provider but it was first time where it is openly advertised or offered even. Had plenty of AO experience with providers however, was mostly after I become a regular or we end up having some kind of "connection".

[QUOTE=Bootie26;1431807]Great choice. Wasn't my first AO experience with a provider but it was first time where it is openly advertised or offered even.[/QUOTE]Bootie, thanks for the "encouragement", but. Guys, forgive my ignorance, where is written in their site about AO? I took it for granted reading about that on here, but I couldn't find by myself (remember I'm computer impaired)

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1431826]Bootie, thanks for the "encouragement", but. Guys, forgive my ignorance, where is written in their site about AO? I took it for granted reading about that on here, but I couldn't find by myself (remember I'm computer impaired)[/QUOTE]I don't think it's on the website, but once you get there Alina (or whoever else is taking your entrance fee) will explain the pricing structure to you, including the AO surcharge.

[QUOTE=Woofiee;1431700]. before I depart this thread forever.[/QUOTE]You should never have come here in the first place! You won't be missed!

Enjoy what you like, where you like and let other do the same!

[QUOTE=Kommodore; 1430785]I have been to many many many many clubs including some of those referred to in this thread. QUOTE]

Can you be more precise, like telling us which specific club, and when you visited? Your statement seems little convincing!

Most posters on this thread seem to have had a good time, recently, in Arabella, Villa Venus, Grimberg and Angelique. It's one thing to say you don't like them, another to"warn " people about the "Horrors" of those places.

Why don't you do like wollfie, that is leave this thread forever?

If your going to talk about AO clubs, how about merging all the NRW AO clubs into one section? Doubt Jackson will act on a few people. This would keep all AO talk to one area, making it easier for AO seekers to keep updated and for those not interested in AO talk to avoid the conversation. Or if Jackson agree's to create another forum under this title we could move these clubs over to that area? I know not all of the clubs are true AO clubs but if its readily available and or advertised as possible then it should be included. I know some clubs have their own section already but this would allow AO talk to be done in one place, under one section.

AO clubs: Angelique, Arabella, Bernds, Dietzenbach, DolceVita Rausbach, Grimberg, LaLuna, VillaVenus.

Would this be acceptable to everyone involved in this debate? Am I missing any clubs? I tried to shorten the names to keep the title condensed.

[QUOTE=Breadman;1431987]Am I missing any clubs?[/QUOTE]Alina (Dorsten). Pure AO club.

AO happens in Cleopatra Arena (Gelsenkirshen) , Emmerich.

I am not sure about Bernds. Can be listed here?

[QUOTE=Jymondor; 1432000].

I am not sure about Bernds. Can be listed here?[/QUOTE]For some reasons better known by himself, Breadman tries to promote Bernds as an AO club.

AO clubs are those openly advertising AO. Bernds is not such a club, and, as much as I agree that AO is offered in non AO clubs, if Bernds is included in such a list so should Oase, and all the other big FKKS all over Germany.

[QUOTE=Jymondor; 1432000]Alina (Dorsten). Pure AO club.

AO happens in Cleopatra Arena (Gelsenkirshen) , Emmerich.

I am not sure about Bernds. Can be listed here?[/QUOTE]Dorsten is now a pure AO club? Bernds is like Cleopatra Arena, it happens there but sometimes you've got to have a regular visitor in your group to have it offered to you. You'll get billed double at the door by the girl. If your going solo, visit twice in one week and things should open up for you. But the third time is the charm. Its like Dietzenbach, you really don't know until you go to the room to keep it out of the open. Even if the girl doesn't speak much english, I've found that by rubbing your bare dick on her pussy when your ready for sex the reaction will be reach for the condom or slightly cover the pussy and then say '50 extra'. Amazing how they practive that phrase.

What defines an AO club? I'd say the 33% rule. If at least one in three of the girls working at the club offer it, then guys here want to know about the practice. I've gotten it at Oase and World before but the odds are 1 in 100 if not more. Bernds has maybe 14 girls working at any given time, odds are in your favor of finding an AO provider here. Yes, they do pull out the condom but some of those condoms have years of dust on them if you get my drift.

It will end or not?

As you all don't report, so don't go in clubs, please masburbate yourself at home and stop posting bullshit on the forum.

The worst is that this kind of shit happens also in 'big' club's thread where a newbie cannot write his bad experience without nearly the same guys write 50 useless posts to say it cannot happened.

My thinking is that some accounts should be closed. They behave like pimps. My 0 cent.

[QUOTE=Happy Fkk;1432139]The worst is that this kind of shit happens also in 'big' club's thread where a newbie cannot write his bad experience without nearly the same guys write 50 useless posts to say it cannot happened.[/QUOTE]Bad experience? So your against ao in the clubs I take it?

[QUOTE=Breadman;1432083]. I've gotten it at Oase and World before but the odds are 1 in 100 if not more. .[/QUOTE]Really, one in 100! You tested more than 100 girls and only one would accept AO if you request? Come on, be a bit honest and serious!

I agree that 1 in 3 is a good possibility, in ANY big FKK, Bernds as much (or less) than any other.

We are all very curious to know what Bernd's management has done to you so that you keep at them so persistently.

Anecdotal, anyway, Bernd's business remains brisk, but just curious.

[QUOTE=EastGoing; 1430603][url]http://www.joyclub.de/my/fotoalbum/1994883.club_angelique.html[/url]

Also, even if, again, I agree AO is a dangerous practice and shouldn't be advertised too much (as Dreams said these clubs may get overcrowded, therefore increasing the chances of possible infections) , AO is quite hidden in the forum, an outer reader wouldn't find out without digging german threads, I don't know if it's done intentionally. I'm not good at all at using computer, but I don't even visualize partytreff section, nor by entry main page nor by "forum".

Being a Whormany beginner and a computer illiterate I fully fit the description of the subject and qualify to express my opinions.

Greetings to all debaters[/QUOTE]EastGoing,

Greetings to my Moscow forum friend. Nice post and I agree.

FYI, I have been to Angilique twice last summer. I reported on one of my visits here. I did AO and enjoyed it immensely. The girls there are as good or better than the girls at many smaller FKKs. Also, they provide excellent GFE service. Better than most FKKs.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?1100-Other-FKK-Clubs&p=1307391#post1307391

But AO is not only in the AO clubs for sure. I have seen at least 60 different FKK girls over the last 16 months, probably more, and I have done AO with at least 20 of them. Almost every girl that has been an exceptional kisser has also been willing to do AO with some gentle persuasion. I rarely go to the big Frankfurt clubs as the service is lacking IMHO. Go to the right clubs and find the right girls.

Sakura in Stuttgart and Heaven in Nuremburg have been good for me for regular FKKs.

[QUOTE=Myrrh;1430345]It should be borne in mind that some of the girls at Angelique (including Deea and Arianna) moved there from Club la Luna, the club famous for it's 'any guy can just simply walk in off the street and participate in a 4-girl bareback sperm donor gangbang session'. So hardly classy.[/QUOTE]It seems to me that the only think different is AO. I have participated in 4-girl gang bangs at "classy" upscale FKKS and I walked in off the street? What makes any FKK classy? Pfffff.

[QUOTE=Breadman;1432083]Dorsten is now a pure AO club?[/QUOTE]No. PT Dorsten and FKK Alina are two seperate places. (And I've been to neither.) But you can see the different adresses on their websites:

[url]http://www.fkk-alina.com/index.php/A.Impressum.html[/url]

[url]http://www.partytreff-dorsten.de/[/url]

AO is available at FKK-Alina "if the girl offers it". They seem to be self-employed entrepreneurs there, like the girls are at LaLuna Moers.

PT Dorsten is still a rubber-club. Even if Sexy-Susi is there, she does only Condom-Gangbangs.

[QUOTE=SwingerLover;1432588]No. PT Dorsten and FKK Alina are two seperate places.[/QUOTE]I wrote about Alina. I did not even know that PT Dorsten exists.

Thats right swingerl. Dorsten was by the way the worst place I've ever been to, even though Laureen pink was there, being fucked by 30-40 guys from the middle east, I didn't bother. Alina was quite ok, with one good provider and one oh my god provider! Both young and looking quite good, nearly fkk standard. Service of the oh my god, was above. The rest of the girls didn't seem that interesting, unfortunately. Nice meeting you at krefeld Sunday, by the way! Scandinavian dude here.

[QUOTE=Dreams; 1432422]Really, one in 100! You tested more than 100 girls and only one would accept AO if you request?

I agree that 1 in 3 is a good possibility, in ANY big FKK, Bernds as much (or less) than any other.[/QUOTE]It seems that others get all advantage in fucking girls with no condom and for no extra money.

It seems unfair that some get AO all the time in the FKK and some do not even get a sniff at AO service being offered. This cannot be write. It seems we have extremes of 1 in 3 girls getting AO offered and some like Breadman get 1 in 100 and then are some doing this for many years and getting zero take up on AO service. What is the correct position?

Guys, there are too many discussions around definition "AO Club". Technically AO can be available in ANY club. But only some clubs provide AO service "legally". So sometimes is hard to define whether AO that cub or not.

I propose a scale that will help to rate any club by AO availability. This scale does not related to club type and can be applied to any club type (FKK, Sauna-Club, PT, Brothel, etc.

Please correct if any example is not right.

Class 1 (or A). AO openly advertised. AO is mandatory for all WG in the club. Customer can get AO from any girls. Example: Villa Venus, Angelique

Class 2 (or B). AO openly advertised. AO is available from some girls. Example: Arabella, Cleopatra Arena, Alina, Grimberg, LaLuna, Dietzenbach.

Class 3 (or C). AO not advertised but openly available from all or some girls in the club. Example: DV Raurbach.

Class 4 (or D). AO not advertised. AO not openly available, but some girls could provide it. Girls have no troubles if AO info leaks. Example: Bernds.

Class 5 (or E). AO strictly forbidden. Girl would be in a trouble if AO info leaks. But of course it is available from some girls for some men, because it is impossible to control. Examples: Oase, GT, World, Acapulco, etc.

I believe that proposed scale covers all cases of AO availability at any club.

This scale if for AO availability ONLY. It does not explain whether AO is extra or included into base price.

I don't think the issue is important enough to have a specific classification.

Some things are also difficult to determine: as far as I know there is no club where girls are forced to do AO (in villa venus, Andrea doesn't for instance). So I think 1 and 2 are essentially the same. Three can be put under the same umbrella, as DVR is well known to offer AO and is even under the Tabulos header in Freiercafe.

The difference between 4 and 5 is flimsy. For instance, there are a bunch of girls in LR and GT that are known (by most regulars) to be doing AO. Which includes postings on the big messageboards. And still work there. No way the club is in the dark (unless they choose to).

The better distinction. If one is inclined to make one. Is between clubs where AO is fairly openly accepted (Alina, Arabella, Grimberg, Villa Venus, Dietzenbach, Laluna, Cleopatra, M Exclusiv, DV Raubach, Angelique, many more smaller clubs). And the clubs where it is publicly considered 'not done', but still happens regularly (everywhere else).

What percentages is concerned, I'd say 1 in 3 seems a bit much; but 1 in 100 is a joke: even without asking for it you'd probably beat that (from experience).

[QUOTE=Free Dude;1432913]I don't think the issue is important enough to have a specific classification.[/QUOTE]To be honest nothing is really important in this forum. Few men just having fun sharing sinful experience.

[QUOTE=Free Dude;1432913]as far as I know there is no club where girls are forced to do AO (in villa venus, Andrea doesn't for instance). So I think 1 and 2 are essentially the same.[/QUOTE]I am not sure what Andrea do you mean. Last Saturday I had AO + AVO session with Andrea who recently moved here from Arabella. Tall fake blond Romanian. But anyway I was under impression that all girls in V-Venus perform AO. I am pretty positive that all girls at Angelique do AO.

[QUOTE=Free Dude;1432913]For instance, there are a bunch of girls in LR and GT that are known (by most regulars) to be doing AO. Which includes postings on the big messageboards. And still work there. No way the club is in the dark (unless they choose to).[/QUOTE]I would say that management is pretending that they do not know about AO as long as girl adds some Euros to their Schublade. At any case scenario I would appreciate leads to these girls into my PM.

[QUOTE=Free Dude;1432913]The better distinction. If one is inclined to make one. Is between clubs where AO is fairly openly accepted (Alina, Arabella, Grimberg, Villa Venus, Dietzenbach, Laluna, Cleopatra, M Exclusiv, DV Raubach, Angelique, many more smaller clubs). And the clubs where it is publicly considered 'not done', but still happens regularly (everywhere else).[/QUOTE]Well, this is closer to the reality, but more gradations will makes information exchange easier.

[QUOTE=Free Dude;1432913]Three can be put under the same umbrella, as DVR is well known to offer AO and is even under the Tabulos header in Freiercafe.[/QUOTE]De facto you are right. But de jure DVR does not advertise AO on their website while other mentioned clubs do. AO at DVR is more available than say in Arabella that advertises AO, but by some reason they do not announce. Friercafe is not under their control.

[QUOTE=Yakob; 1432698]It seems that others get all advantage in fucking girls with no condom and for no extra money.

It seems unfair that some get AO all the time in the FKK and some do not even get a sniff at AO service being offered. This cannot be write. It seems we have extremes of 1 in 3 girls getting AO offered and some like Breadman get 1 in 100 and then are some doing this for many years and getting zero take up on AO service. What is the correct position?[/QUOTE]My Dear Brother, the answer is easy. If you go with the ugly dogs or unpopular girls you can most likely get this service also in the big clubs, if you go with the good looking one and most requested girls who are not in a desperate need for clients, you will get it 1 in 100 as it happens to Breadman who evidentely has a good taste!

Moreover, I know of people who say they get it for nothing but then the girls come to me pointing them out and saying they had been offered 500€ for AO. So, whenever you listen to these stories, always put in the equation the factor called: frustated men!

Otherwise, why people should go and do the "very attractive girls" populating clubs like DVR or Grimberg instead simply getting AO for free at the big clubs since it is so easy to get it?

My two cents, from someone who has been around more than enough, including being a regular at Bernds and many of the most spoken German clubs and who happened, in many years, to get real AO from regulars for free (not certainly 1 out of 3, ridiculous except for the real AO clubs!) and being offered AO often from dogs (always refused, I preserve my dignity!).

[QUOTE=Free Dude;1432913]Some things are also difficult to determine: as far as I know there is no club where girls are forced to do AO [b](in villa venus, Andrea doesn't for instance).[/b][/QUOTE][QUOTE=Jymondor;1432958]I am not sure what Andrea do you mean. Last Saturday I had AO + AVO session with Andrea who recently moved here from Arabella. Tall fake blond Romanian.[/QUOTE]I met a girl named Andrea in Villa Venus last month who told me she does not do AO. She told me she used to work at Goldentime, tall fake blonde from Romania, pretty face, always sits on the couch by the towel rack upfront, speaks decent English.

[QUOTE=Sportsman;1433063]I met a girl named Andrea in Villa Venus last month who told me she does not do AO. She told me she used to work at Goldentime, tall fake blonde from Romania, pretty face, always sits on the couch by the towel rack upfront, speaks decent English.[/QUOTE]That's the one I'm talking about, often chatting with Flori (Florentina) and this Andrea also has a set card that says 'no AO'. If the Andrea from Arabella has transferred, that's a different matter: she does 'everything' if I remember correctly. Two different girls.

[QUOTE=Jymondor;1432890]This scale if for AO availability ONLY.[/QUOTE]It's way too complicated and propably to much work to keep it updated. And unnecessary too. If you take a look at my AO-map, then you'll see that all #1-5 clubs of your list are on there with a pink marker already. (Except FKK Arabella, which I left off for a reason.) Since #6 basically happens at all the other clubs occasionally (as I've been told) they don't need to be listed seperately. So what more classification does one need?

[QUOTE=Dreams; 1425470]Would be nice to have some reports from the experience, prices, girls, service in any of those clubs.

Would be a welcome change from the crap that has recently pollluted this thread[/QUOTE]I Agree.

Villa Venus is back to the old prices:

1x 60€

2x 90€

3x 110€

No entry fee, and prices as usual include any available service. You need to decide and pay upfront for all the sessions.

[QUOTE=Indi Companion; 1432974]My Dear Brother, the answer is easy. If you go with the ugly dogs or unpopular girls you can most likely get this service also in the big clubs, if you go with the good looking one and most requested girls who are not in a desperate need for clients, you will get it 1 in 100 as it happens to Breadman who evidentely has a good taste!

Moreover, I know of people who say they get it for nothing but then the girls come to me pointing them out and saying they had been offered 500€ for AO. So, whenever you listen to these stories, always put in the equation the factor called: frustated men!

Otherwise, why people should go and do the "very attractive girls" populating clubs like DVR or Grimberg instead simply getting AO for free at the big clubs since it is so easy to get it?

My two cents, from someone who has been around more than enough, including being a regular at Bernds and many of the most spoken German clubs and who happened, in many years, to get real AO from regulars for free (not certainly 1 out of 3, ridiculous except for the real AO clubs!) and being offered AO often from dogs (always refused, I preserve my dignity!).[/QUOTE]Brother Indi Companion,

Thank you for taking the time to write your words. This is most welcome.

I always wondered about how certain mans got AO service all the times and some mans never get AO service ever after many years of visiting the clubs. This must be in the selection of the womenfolk.

It is correct that Bernds has always been known as a club that offers AO, they no need to advertise it since it is known. Maybe even DV Raubach not advertise it openly too but it is possible to find the AO there. Simply if not advertising it does not of itself make the club not an AO club.

You go to these clubs and if you ask for it and most times you will get it. Nothing special or new.

In the maybe mainstream FKKs that are written about there I agree that the girls that make the good money do not need to offer something special like AO to make the extra money. Now I fully expect some professional professor of FKKs to say that he gets the best looking hooker in the club to fuck him no condom but you expect them to say that. Just saying.

I knows mans that in 5 years has only ever been offered AO 5 times, so this maybe falls into the 1 in 100 bucket of the Breadman. Then there is the mans that goes always with the ugly girls and the girl fuck him for free and with no protection. He go to the small club and he can foster the relationship with the new inexperienced girl that fall for him. Then there is the professional Frankfurt mans that in all these years ever get AO only several times.

So with these empirical evidences I try to reconcile to the 1 in 3 statistic to the 1 in 100 statistic. Since I seriously do feel that some of us must be missing out in also enjoying these feelings. So it is the selection.

Maybe we keep to what we knows and I quote what I say before about feeling to not need to track down the people with the STD and hound them to the ends to the earth, and it is this: the concept that of letting live those to live their lives. Live and let Live.

That is all.

Njoy.

So much comedy here; in my humble experiences, the girls that offered AO were in many cases some of the more popular girls. Those very few times that I actually let it happen, were pretty much all with girls that prove difficult to get to. In all honesty, I can only recall one girl that offered it, while being short of work (ie I was her first of the day).

I have no idea why none of the girls ever bring it up with you guys, but the story gets a bit weird.

[QUOTE=Free Dude; 1433438]So much comedy here; in my humble experiences, the girls that offered AO were in many cases some of the more popular girls. Those very few times that I actually let it happen, were pretty much all with girls that prove difficult to get to. In all honesty, I can only recall one girl that offered it, while being short of work (ie I was her first of the day).

I have no idea why none of the girls ever bring it up with you guys, but the story gets a bit weird.[/QUOTE]You are talking about AO in non-AO clubs. Correct? I confirm that I got AO offers from the girls that are far way from be called ugly. Some of them are really popular (maybe by this reason? Who knows). Surcharge for AO in these clubs usually high."Usually" does not mean "always".

I was offered AO from 300 EURO extra (Declined) to 100 EURO for 1/2 hr AO session (usually accepted). I accept AO if this no more than 150 EURO per 1/2 hr in total. Once I accepted 250 EUROs and now don't understand why. This is about cases when girls proposed AO.

But more often I can get AO asking girls for that. I ask for AO only girls I previously sessioned more than one time and tipped well. Success is in about 20% of cases, but I newer ask for AO girls I newer sessioned before. Price is about in the same range between 50 and 250 EURO on top of base price. Does 20% shocking you?

Sure neither names of the girls nor clubs will be disclosed other than PM.

[QUOTE=Yakob; 1433430]Brother Indi Companion,

Thank you for taking the time to write your words. This is most welcome.

I always wondered about how certain mans got AO service all the times and some mans never get AO service ever after many years of visiting the clubs. This must be in the selection of the womenfolk.

It is correct that Bernds has always been known as a club that offers AO, they no need to advertise it since it is known. Maybe even DV Raubach not advertise it openly too but it is possible to find the AO there. Simply if not advertising it does not of itself make the club not an AO club.

You go to these clubs and if you ask for it and most times you will get it. Nothing special or new.

In the maybe mainstream FKKs that are written about there I agree that the girls that make the good money do not need to offer something special like AO to make the extra money. Now I fully expect some professional professor of FKKs to say that he gets the best looking hooker in the club to fuck him no condom but you expect them to say that. Just saying.

I knows mans that in 5 years has only ever been offered AO 5 times, so this maybe falls into the 1 in 100 bucket of the Breadman. Then there is the mans that goes always with the ugly girls and the girl fuck him for free and with no protection. He go to the small club and he can foster the relationship with the new inexperienced girl that fall for him. Then there is the professional Frankfurt mans that in all these years ever get AO only several times.

So with these empirical evidences I try to reconcile to the 1 in 3 statistic to the 1 in 100 statistic. Since I seriously do feel that some of us must be missing out in also enjoying these feelings. So it is the selection.

Maybe we keep to what we knows and I quote what I say before about feeling to not need to track down the people with the STD and hound them to the ends to the earth, and it is this: the concept that of letting live those to live their lives. Live and let Live.

That is all.

Njoy.[/QUOTE]I am sure that one can get AO in so called non-Ao clubs for an extra fee. Wheterh it is 1 in 3 or 1 in 100 is for me irrelevant sicee

Personally, I don't ask for AO in such clubs, and have not been offered it very often. In any case I decline, since I don't see the point to pay quite a lot of extra money for a service that I get for free in VV or assimilated clubs.

I am shocked. I must have done something wrong as I am zero in 100+ sessions at World.

Never asked AO but never got offered either.

# of girls I had session (s) with may be around 25+ for the past 3 years but I had only one session with 50%+ of them.

I. E. I usually have rooms with my regulars and I didn't bother to find new girls especially for the past 1 year.

But still, I am shocked.

In many of the non-AO clubs it is even offered without any extra costs. Even if you don't look / ask for it, you will notice this every now and then (for me, few times a year). Regardless of the sur-price (from 0 to 300 euro) , it seems to be offered more and more. I visit (ed) many (tens) of clubs, many many times, but only in Oase it was never offered to me (otherwise we could call it AOse.)

[QUOTE=Maxime;1434027]In many of the non-AO clubs it is even offered without any extra costs. Even if you don't look / ask for it, you will notice this every now and then (for me, few times a year). Regardless of the sur-price (from 0 to 300 euro) , it seems to be offered more and more. I visit (ed) many (tens) of clubs, many many times, but only in Oase it was never offered to me (otherwise we could call it AOse.)[/QUOTE]That true. I notice that AO offering in non-AO clubs happening more often each next trip. At my experience surcharge applies in 100% cases. But I can believe that some girls will do it for free by two reasons: better chance that the customer returns and less frictions. Without condom most of men cum quicker.

I think that many of those who don't get AO, or don't believe that AO is possible in non-AO FKKs, are those who simply. Don't ASK for AO.

I have never been interested in AO sex before. Never. So never asked, and was never offered. And so, never got it. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Now I'm looking for it, last time I was in a FKK I didn't ask for it, but next time I'll go, I am sure that if I don't ask for it, I won't be offered it, and if I ask for it, I will have quite chances to get it.

And I think that most of those who got AO, got it most of the time because they ASKED for it (the client to the girl) rather than because they were OFFERED it (by the girl to the client).

This is my point of view, can AO mongers confirm?

[QUOTE=Breadman;1428886]No beating around the Bush (pun intended) here, couldn't have said it better myself.[/QUOTE]No beating around the Bush, this Methuzela-guy you had quoted here seems to have actually been kicked off the forum, as I had suggested! At least the links to his "Original Posts" from the quotes don't lead anywhere anymore, so I guess all his inflammatory posts have been deleted and his membership along with them.

[QUOTE]Can't imagine any doctor giving you the ok to fuck prostitutes without a condom.[/QUOTE]Not sure if docs would give ok to fuck pros, but they are definitely not opposed to uncovered sex. First: Sexy-Susi's husband is a doctor and does the HIV-tests at her AO-Gangbangs, but does otherwise not have any problem with his wife being AO-hordefucked. Second: Dark Vader's latest encounter with a medical doctor, which he wrote about here:

[QUOTE=Dark Vader; 1433876]When the guy finished he moved away and left us to go at and it was such a thrill when my cock slowly entered into her and I must admit that there really is nothing quite as pleasurable as entering virgin (from my perspective) territory unsheathed.

-

By now I was spent and had cum deeply inside her and so I gave way and allowed the other guy to fuck her whilst I stroked her tits and continued to kiss her.

-

Back down in the lounge we again got chatting and the talk turned to what we did for jobs. The MILF went off to get a coffee and her partner revealed that she was actually a medical doctor![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Varenne; 1433266]Villa Venus is back to the old prices:
1x 60€
2x 90€
3x 110€
No entry fee, and prices as usual include any available service. You need to decide and pay upfront for all the sessions.[/QUOTE]
Today (Friday around noon) two options only:
1x 60€
2x 90€
Each next session 40€.

I already sessioned here with four Ex-Arabella girls: Bianca (3x), Lily, Karena (2x), Andrea. Karena and Bianka look nice, Andrea provides AVO, Lily newer repeat. Bianca - excellent service with CIM - good for last session. I don't see any reason to visit Arabella after they lost their best girls. All four Ex-Arabella girls said that they like V-Venus more, especially how management treats them. It hard to get more details due to their limited language skills.

Non-attractive V-Venus girls (like Ella and others) look very upset. They sit bored getting no customers. Lineup is better than ever. So 'advisory' about old, ugly, chubby girls in V-Venus is nothing more than somebodies fantasy. Service is good as well. The only drawback is time between session. I have my tablet with movies and book reader. Today I watched 'The Bourne Legacy' and last two episodes of Season 3 of 'Game of Thrones'. Girls are nice but they cannot maintain conversation. So sex is virtually everything you can from them. This is enough for me, but if you are looking for entertaining this is not your place.

I left around 6 PM because cannot eat anymore they sausages and sliced cake.

Natalia disappears. Nobody could explain where she is. Really nice girl. Does anybody know?

[QUOTE=Silikon; 1434039]I think that many of those who don't get AO, or don't believe that AO is possible in non-AO FKKs, are those who simply. Don't ASK for AO.

I have never been interested in AO sex before. Never. So never asked, and was never offered. And so, never got it. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Now I'm looking for it, last time I was in a FKK I didn't ask for it, but next time I'll go, I am sure that if I don't ask for it, I won't be offered it, and if I ask for it, I will have quite chances to get it.

And I think that most of those who got AO, got it most of the time because they ASKED for it (the client to the girl) rather than because they were OFFERED it (by the girl to the client).

This is my point of view, can AO mongers confirm?[/QUOTE]I never ask (ed) for it, and still it is offered few times a year in the non-AO clubs (so offered by the girl to me, not by saying it, but by trying to do it! And then look surprised if I ask for a condom.)

[QUOTE=Free Dude;1432913]What percentages is concerned, I'd say 1 in 3 seems a bit much; but 1 in 100 is a joke: even without asking for it you'd probably beat that (from experience).[/QUOTE]I have never openly asked for AO ever in a normal FKK. I have played to get a sense for it with kissing and rubbing my dick against a girls pussy. If she does not complain, I see how far I can go. I have never paid extra forr it at a normal club but I have tipped afterward and it is usually with a "regular."

Seems like the old Belami has reopened under the same business model as the rest of the chain; now to be called FKK Verena: 9. 99 entry and 29. 99 for half an hour all inclusive: [url]http://www.fkk-verena.com/[/url]

[QUOTE=Free Dude; 1435825]Seems like the old Belami has reopened under the same business model as the rest of the chain; now to be called FKK Verena: 9. 99 entry and 29. 99 for half an hour all inclusive:

[url]http://www.fkk-verena.com/[/url][/QUOTE]Yes, pleeease.

Do these girls actually work in FKK Verena or are they models used for advertising on the website?

[QUOTE=Myrrh;1435866]Yes, pleeease.[/QUOTE]Beware, the first two women are clip art and have TinEye results:

1)

[url]http://www.tineye.com/search/11fc9cccf5c6c20b39ee10e515adcc3f8aa8a764/[/url]

2)

[url]http://www.tineye.com/search/2d5f3ca5caaf69958f5d46014c2550ff7f63555a/[/url]

[QUOTE=Woofiee; 1436001]Beware, the first two women are clip art and have TinEye results:

1)

[url]http://www.tineye.com/search/11fc9cccf5c6c20b39ee10e515adcc3f8aa8a764/[/url]

2)

[url]http://www.tineye.com/search/2d5f3ca5caaf69958f5d46014c2550ff7f63555a/[/url][/QUOTE]Good find, in fact they are not presented as " Our Girls" or so, but deceiving it is.

I just had my first NRW AO Clubs visit in FKK Alina. And the experience was way less than my expectations, and let me clarify that I have never visited an FKK before so when I say it was bad I am not comparing it to high class FKK clubs, I mean its bad even comparing to the cheap partytreffs that I am used to visit, my problem was mainly with the attitude, service which is the point that I was having a high expectations about because from reading the forums I thought that the girls in these clubs are are really willing to please because there is a competition in those clubs to attract customers etc, was it maybe just a bad day? Or is it that Fkk Arabella / Venus / Grimberg better than Alina? , I don't know but here is the full experience :

It took me just few minutes walking to find the club from Dorsten train station, I paid 60 Euro that includes one season and then 30 for every other season, I noticed 3 good looking girls, first was young girl from Bulgaria, second blonde girl from Romania, third tall girl from Romania.

So I sit next to the young girl from Bulgaria, she was rude, she kept talking loudly and noisy with other girls without talking to me and removed my hand from her shoulder and said "room"? . I said no and I was leaving the couch, then another customer told me calmly with a smile as if he was explaining the rules : when you sit next to a girl you should take her to a room. (Duh of course I didn't sit next to her to discuss politic) , I told him also calmly with a smile that no way I am taking a girl with such an attitude to a room. What a shitty beginning.

Anyway, next : I went to the other big room and sat next to the blonde girl from Romania, a few cold hugs and kisses and then "room"? , ok. Very mechanical season, then I decided to take a rest and I watched this scene : a guy in his late 50s wanted to kiss this blonde girl from Romania, she rejected and when he left the room she moved her hand in a way to tell the other that he smelled bad, while the girls are laughing.

After watching this scene I also left the room a bit disgusted so while I was leaving I saw a girl which I would rate as 6 not more but from her smile it was obvious that she is a sweet woman (I needed that after seeing the other girls attitude) , I sit next to her and yeah she is very sweet, she said she is from Turkey and 31 year old, nice season but as I said her look is not more than 6.

Neeext : the tall girl from Romania, alright I guess. She tried to acting horny which lead to her moving way too much, actually she reminded me of of some cute pets that never stood still when you try to pet them LOL. But it was alright season I mean at least she was willing to please.

Now normally I would take a long rest and then have my fourth season, but I had to go to the airport soon so I went for my fourth season without long rest, my penis didn't do well and I would say its a bad season because the girl didn't do her best to help in this situation. And BTW her name is Sara and she says and insists that she is from Germany!

Then I left the club, total damage 150 Euro. For 150 Euro I could had much more fun in other places. Its understandable that for AO sex it might be good place, but for me since I prefer it with condom so as I said there are more places to have more fun with this 150 Euro.

Happy mongering everybody!

[QUOTE=Hessen Bub; 1394576]Go to Grimberg or Arabella, they are just 15min apart. If you don't like the line-up or the hardware. Just move on. It's 60€ entree including one 30min session. Grimberg is thhe bigger club.

HB[/QUOTE]In which place-city must you stay, in order to visit these 2 clubs? I mean the closest major city.

Thanks.

[QUOTE=Dim Yann; 1440467]In which place-city must you stay, in order to visit these 2 clubs? I mean the closest major city.

Thanks.[/QUOTE]Arabella is located in Bochum & Grimberg in Gelsenkirchen. Major cities, Duisburg & Dortmund.

[QUOTE=Dim Yann; 1440467]In which place-city must you stay, in order to visit these 2 clubs? I mean the closest major city.

[/QUOTE]There are hotels in Gelsenkirchen and Bochum. The Arena hotel is about 38euro for a basic single (shared bathroom) including a decent breakfast and is excellent value (next to a McDonalds if you like that sort of thing).

If you are travelling by car from Dortmund/Duisburg/Dusseldorf then it's a good idea to check what's on at the Stadium (usually a Schalke home match)and then time your travel to avoid the huge jams on the autobahn exits)

[QUOTE=Dim Yann; 1440467]In which place-city must you stay, in order to visit these 2 clubs? I mean the closest major city.

Thanks.[/QUOTE]I visited Villa Venus, Acapulco and Golden Time for a few days in January this year. Lived very cheap at the Etap Hotel in Essen and rented a small car and brought my own gps navigation device with me. From Essen it is easy to get anywhere in Nordrhein-Westfalen. Many autobahn roads so you can travel fast.

[QUOTE=Dim Yann; 1440467]In which place-city must you stay, in order to visit these 2 clubs? I mean the closest major city.

Thanks.[/QUOTE]I stayed at the IBIS in Duisburg, less than 50 euros, breakfast, parking and wifi included. Less than 30 min form all those clubs.

[QUOTE=Dreams;1441712]I satyed at the IBIS in Duisburg, less than 50 euros, breakfast, parking and wifi included. Less than 30 min form all those clubs.[/QUOTE]I stayed in Ibis Budget (ex-ETAP) Krefeld for 38euros, A / C rooms and even better than Duisburg location for the clubs. Breakfast / parking NOT included, but I park for free on a street nearby. Location: right next door to Krefeld Hbf.

[QUOTE=Ortos;1441898]I stayed in Ibis Budget (ex-ETAP) Krefeld for 38euros, A / C rooms and even better than Duisburg location for the clubs. Breakfast / parking NOT included, but I park for free on a street nearby. Location: right next door to Krefeld Hbf.[/QUOTE]I may be wrong, but for Villa venus, Grimberg, Alina, is Duisburg not closer than Krefeld?

[QUOTE=Dreams;1442143]I may be wrong, but for Villa venus, Grimberg, Alina, is Duisburg not closer than Krefeld?[/QUOTE]No, if your club universe is VV and Grimberg, Alina then Duisburg is closer. I was speaking more generally about Krefeld being a better location for the group of Duesseldorf / Koln clubs as a whole.

I seem to have forgotten that we are on a thread dealing with specific clubs. So sorry!

[QUOTE=Ortos;1442232]No, if your club universe is VV and Grimberg, Alina then Duisburg is closer.[/QUOTE]But avoid ETAP (Ibis Budget) in Dusiburg. Crowdy and noisy area. Shortage of parking spots. Top of all some store renovation on go in the same building. Contraction noise starts at 8:00 AM

I will be landing at Dusseldorf airport, so after I should go to Duisburg, find a hotel there and after go to any of these 3-4 clubs?

Or I can stay at Dusseldorf as well and go from there to these clubs?

[QUOTE=Jymondor;1442240]But avoid ETAP (Ibis Budget) in Dusiburg. Crowdy and noisy area. Shortage of parking spots. Top of all some store renovation on go in the same building. Contraction noise starts at 8:00 AM[/QUOTE]That's the one I stayed in. No problem at thet time to park, even when coming back late in the night. And no noise. Did not find the area crowde or noisy at all. Obviously no construction work when I was there.

I liked it, nice staff, breakfast, pkg, wifi included, for 49 E. And very close to all those clubs in this thread (20-30 min max).

[QUOTE=Dreams; 1442503]That's the one I stayed in. No problem at thet time to park, even when coming back late in the night. And no noise. Did not find the area crowde or noisy at all. Obviously no construction work when I was there.

I liked it, nice staff, breakfast, pkg, wifi included, for 49 E. And very close to all those clubs in this thread (20-30 min max).[/QUOTE]Maybe construction made my stay terrible. Constructors equipment occupied almost half of parking spots. I agree that staff is nice. W-Fi is free in any Ibis Budget. Sometimes Motel One and B&B provide almost the same prices as Ibis Budget, but don't be fooled. You still have to pay for wi-fi there.

In that area I prefer ETAP Dusseldorf North (or it is called now Ibis Budget Dusseldorf Airport). Nice and quiet area. Driving is about the same. Maybe 5 mit longer, but this is not essential.

[QUOTE=Jymondor; 1442786]Maybe construction made my stay terrible. Constructors equipment occupied almost half of parking spots. I agree that staff is nice. W-Fi is free in any Ibis Budget. Sometimes Motel One and B&B provide almost the same prices as Ibis Budget, but don't be fooled. You still have to pay for wi-fi there.

In that area I prefer ETAP Dusseldorf North (or it is called now Ibis Budget Dusseldorf Airport). Nice and quiet area. Driving is about the same. Maybe 5 mit longer, but this is not essential.[/QUOTE]B&B is usually around €49 and includes WiFi (you don't even need to be a guest to have free WiFi).

Motel One is a bit more expensive than B&B and supposedly the non-breakfast rate also includes in-room WiFi as well. That's what their corporate customer service told me. I never stayed at Motel One just because B&B is cheaper.

Interesting to see how a thread which had many emotional discussions about AO, now turns into a travel forum discussing breakfast.)

[QUOTE=Maxime;1443227]Interesting to see how a thread which had many emotional discussions about AO, now turns into a travel forum discussing breakfast.)[/QUOTE]I would say "turns into the normal forum life". We are here to discuss any small details that could make our mongering experience more comfortable.

Newbie question here. Was wondering how one would get the username and password to see the expanded pictures section on their website. Is it generic or does one need to sign up?

Thanks!

[QUOTE=Johncr04;1449458]Newbie question here. Was wondering how one would get the username and password to see the expanded pictures section on their website. Is it generic or does one need to sign up? Thanks![/QUOTE]I have read that to achieve access on the Club Angelique website you have to make a visit and then the staff that works there provide you with the login information. But if you want to have a look at some of the girls who are available there you can use this link:

[url]http://www.girl-finden.de/0000/girls-viersen-duelken.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Maxime;1443227]Interesting to see how a thread which had many emotional discussions about AO, now turns into a travel forum discussing breakfast.)[/QUOTE]Where is this thread now? It seems linked to Germany. FKK Clubs but if you click there, I can't see Fkk Arabella.

Why all these clubs don't have their own thread like before and as it should be?

Maybe someone should open a Germany. Other Clubs or Germany. Small Clubs.

[QUOTE=Happy Fkk; 1451622]Where is this thread now? It seems linked to Germany. FKK Clubs but if you click there, I can't see Fkk Arabella.

Why all these clubs don't have their own thread like before and as it should be?

Maybe someone should open a Germany. Other Clubs or Germany. Small Clubs.[/QUOTE]I don't think it is an issue with "censors" or else.

Just that no one has recently visited those clubs, or bothered to report.

I myself have not been since some time, so have nothing to report.

If you read French or germnan, there are quite a ot reports for those clubs in French and german fora.

[QUOTE=Happy Fkk;1451622]Where is this thread now? It seems linked to Germany. FKK Clubs but if you click there, I can't see Fkk Arabella.[/QUOTE]I can see it. But since a while this and other "user threads" are way down on the page.

T

[QUOTE=Dreams; 1443299]But I would not mind if someone who went recently gave us some recent info about what happens in in the club.

On other fora, I read that Arabella lost some of the best girls, and, more disappointingly, that Villa Venus was not as good as it used to be. Anyone there to confirm / inform. Sadly I have no imminent trip planned.[/QUOTE]I was at FKK Venus on a Saturday and then the next Monday in late June. Both times there were 12-14 girls present. By the reception area are photographs of the girls, arranged by what they do (no bareback (one girl) , pussy bareback, and anal bareback. I believe CIM is included in the price but never did it, preferring to come in pussy. There is no real food available so bring your own (I did). The girls, who are naked, sit on individual couches and you go sit with the one you are interested in. You can feel up her tits, ass, and pussy, and she will massage your dick and give you a blow-job on the couch before going to the room. I found only half of the girls to be doable, at mid-range FKK standard, with the others too fat or unattractive facially or bodily. I did 6 of them, all bareback, over the two visits: Lily (spunky, energetic Romanian blonde with albino pussy, nice session, came in pussy) , Larissa (older Romanian brunette, so-so session) , Suzie (Romanian brunette with nice face and tits but a fat ass, good session but did not want to do anal, even though she was one the anal girls listed by the reception area) , Bianca (Rumanian Brunette. 20 years old, great session, came in pussy) , Gaby (19 year old Bulgarian, good session, fingered her pussy to the music while she massaged my dick for at least 10 minutes on the couch) , and Elena (18 year old Bulgarian, average face but nice tits, blow-job on couch, very good session, came in pussy).

I found the girls and the club to be very nice and a great value. However, some of the girls may not shower after the session, as two of them (Larissa and Elena) were back at their couches before I returned from my shower. Also, I got gonorrhea here (unless it was at Club Angelique, which I went to on the Sunday in between the FKK Venus visits and also barebacked two girls) , an obvious downer. I tried to E-mail them to get the girls I went with tested but could never get though to them (did the same with Club Angelique, successfully, for which they thanked me). Despite the gonorrhea, the sensation of fucking bareback is so much better than with condom that I would go back to both clubs, despite the risk (certainty?) of getting a STD, but at the end of my trip so getting infected would not ruin the rest of the trip, as it did this time.

[QUOTE=Jimmy Boy 99;1452230]I got gonorrhea here (unless it was at Club Angelique, which I went to on the Sunday in between the FKK Venus visits and also barebacked two girls) , an obvious downer.[/QUOTE]I wonder why people don't post this when those things occur. I have recently been to Club Angelique twice, Arabella twice and VV. I'll soon post about. A couple of questions: shall I post here about Angelique or in the AO clubs thread which is dead since a lot of time, in spite of seeming a good initiative to me the fact of putting all of them together? So far I'm still in good health, at least appearently. Should I realize I have caught something, I have to follow the "procedure" of declaring it, if ever, months later? How and what should I say to the clubs? Times, girls, STD? Would they care and do something? Also, many girls declared to be pratically new, and some are off or on holiday. What happened to the "old ones"? Is it possible they just got diseases and therefore have been put on holiday and / or sent away? I could understand having a few new ones on top of others, but it seemed a big turn over.

[QUOTE=Jimmy Boy 99;1452230] on a Saturday and then the next Monday in late June.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=EastGoing;1452375]Should I realize I have caught something, I have to follow the "procedure" of declaring it, if ever, months later?[/QUOTE]As I have stated elsewhere before, it doesn't make ANY sense to post about a gonorrhea infection months later. What would be the purpose? All others will be cured as well by that time, so there's nothing anymore to be warned about. But this now useless warning will live on in this thread here forever, badmouthing the clubs for no reason. Or do you think any newbie who reads about those clubs in connection with an infection will bother going there, even if it isn't true anymore or even wasn't true at all.

And then people wonder about why there are no more reports on those clubs. Surprise, surprise. First they get badmouthed for no reason that's valid anymore, then one wonders about why no one doesn't go there anymore. Brilliant thinking!

I'd say for future occurances: If you got infected someplace and are absolutely SURE about where you got it, (which I defy anybody to be sure about in cases of 'the clap') then post it immediately and not months later when it doesn't do anybody any good anymore at all.

So, EastGoing, to answer your satirical question: No, don't follow this "procedure" of posting it after months! Post it immediately and then have Jackson delete the warning again a few weeks after you're cured; by then the source of infection should be cleared as well. That is if one actually got the clap from having sex.

[QUOTE=Jimmy Boy 99;1452230]Despite the gonorrhea, the sensation of fucking bareback is so much better than with condom that I would go back to both clubs, despite the risk (certainty?) of getting a STD, but at the end of my trip so getting infected would not ruin the rest of the trip, as it did this time.[/QUOTE]I just stated what happened to me after visiting these clubs (due to the latency period of gonorrhea and the bareback sex, it is almost certain that I got it there). Where is the warning for people to stay away, since I said I would return? Having uncovered sex is risky, and the more uncovered it is, the higher the risk. We all should make a cost / benefit analysis of having uncovered sex, decide how much risk we are willing to take, and accept the results.

Your argument that someone reading this a month or year from now is going to be scared off is ridiculous, because as you yourself said, by that time the problem will have been solved, so where is the risk?

For the guys planning longer trips, avoid what happened with Jimmy and try to visit AO clubs near the end of a trip.

[quote=jimmy boy 99; 1452541]i just stated what happened to me after visiting these clubs (due to the latency period of gonorrhea and the bareback sex, it is almost certain that i got it there). where is the warning for people to stay away, since i said i would return? having uncovered sex is risky, and the more uncovered it is, the higher the risk. we all should make a cost / benefit analysis of having uncovered sex, decide how much risk we are willing to take, and accept the results.

your argument that someone reading this a month or year from now is going to be scared off is ridiculous, because as you yourself said, by that time the problem will have been solved, so where is the risk?[/quote]i agree wholeheartedly with jimmyboy. more information is always better so that the forum members can be more fully informed about the nature of the activities we are engaging in.

if there is a problem posed the information that jimmyboy is sharing about his experiences, then the answer is to cure that risk with more speech, not censorship or discouraging jimmyboy from sharing information. if jimmyboy's information poses a risk (for example, badmouthing a club or raising a false warning) , then the answer is to do exactly what swingerlover did, that is, share the reasons why a club's name should not be maligned and why there is or isn't a danger to be concerned about. the forum members can make up their own minds after hearing all of the information from everyone.

the forum members are not so dull-witted that they need to be protected from exposure to jimmyboy's experiences because they will not be able to understand or correctly process swingerlover's astute observations. ok, maybe i have gone too far with this assumption, but i would like to give most of the folks here the benefit of the doubt.

i encourage the sharing of all such experiences if for no other reason than the fact that such vigorous discussion will give us pause to think about such things and to be more fully informed about the risks we face.

i have been lucky so far and haven't caught anything. i hope that if i do ever catch anything that my fellow forum members will at least indulge me with a forum to share my worries and concerns (if not to sympathize with me). i imagine that some of this stuff can be scary for folks to go through, so we shouldn't discourage discussion around these points, especially if these discussions have the potential for allaying fears or helping folks get through stressful situations.

If your a senior member in good standing, a report on catching a std at ANY club should be allowed to stand no questions asked.

[QUOTE=Dreams; 1443299]Those morons who came to lecture us have fnally, it seems, given up.

But I would not mind if someone who went recently gave us some recent info about what happensith in the club.

On other fora, I read that Arabella lost some of the best girls, and, more disappointingly, that Villa Venus was not as good as it used to be.

Anyone there ot confirm / infirm. Sadly I have no imminent trip planned.[/QUOTE]I stopped by both Arabella & Grimberg a couple weeks ago & did not stay. Looked around & browsed at the photos & told the lady I was going to get something to eat & return. Yes, I know it's a weak excuse, but the lineup was below average.

I did visit club Verona / Bellamie in Dortmund. Lineup much better. There was a tall model type babe with crappy teeth & a much slimmer Amalia. She must have lost 20 kilos since her daysatCLL. Great session. There was a big titty German babe with a very soft bod. Not sure if she was AO, but was very very very busy.

Venus has lost most of their best girls to vacation or Dietzenbach. Dietz has more than 20 girls working.

I think it is helpful to know if a member has picked up an infection. It helps other members get a better anecdotal picture of what can happen. However it should always be done simply as a matter of reporting a fact, without any moralising or drawing any conclusions.

Whether or not a particular source can or should be pinpointed or not is more difficult. The chances are that the girl will have been treated at some time after the contact, and anyway it is not so easy to pinpoint the source. On the other hand there have been a few cases on German forums where a girl who is infected over a longish period has been identified, which as a result helps members to avoid visiting this infected girl

[QUOTE=Jimmy Boy 99;1452541]We all should make a cost / benefit analysis of having uncovered sex, decide how much risk we are willing to take, and accept the results.[/QUOTE]Agreed!

[QUOTE]Your argument that someone reading this a month or year from now is going to be scared off is ridiculous, because as you yourself said, by that time the problem will have been solved, so where is the risk?[/QUOTE]The risk lies in information being on a forum forever, even after the problem no longer exists. I could point to info exactly like that, but that would mean digging out irrelevant information which is by now buried under a lot of newer reports. Still, if anyone were to read this info now, I'm not sure if they would consider going to that particular provider. Even if the info is long out of date and was only second-hand info anyway.

[QUOTE=Ultrahappy;1452727]Ok, maybe I have gone too far with this assumption, but I would like to give most of the folks here the benefit of the doubt.[/QUOTE]I would too. But when I constantly notice that obviously a lot of even the Senior Members haven't read the forum's rules and posting guidelines properly (sometimes even after years of membership) then I shutter to think how new members (and only-readers who aren't registered at all) read reports and what will stick to memory.

You know how it goes: There wasn't a rumour about whatever subject. Not until it got denied. For instance: If I were to write that there NEVER was any case of STD at Swingerclub Candy in Rüsselsheim (which club is closed for years, that's why I use it as an example, and there really never was any STD there to my knowledge) there would be a significant number of people who would think that there must be SOME truth to the denied rumour or else the subject matter would never have come up. So better stay away from there.

Impossible? I don't think so. Bad news stick to memory, whether they are true or not, and the Internet has a loooooooooong memory.

[QUOTE=Breadman;1452755]If your a senior member in good standing, a report on catching a std at ANY club should be allowed to stand no questions asked.[/QUOTE]I agree! And when such information about an STD becomes obsolete because everybody involved got cured, then the warning should be deleted again. (And not posted for the first time months after everybody is cured again.)

Even criminals get their records expunged after a certain time, so why should any info about an STD that had occurred at a certain place live on forever when it is no longer true anymore?

[QUOTE=Optimist;1452884]where a girl who is infected over a longish period has been identified, which as a result helps members to avoid visiting this infected girl[/QUOTE]In such a case there should not only be continuous warning about a girl like that as long as she is infected, this would even be a case for the states attorney! Because knowingly spreading an STD is a crime in Germany, which may even carry a prison sentence!

i posted 7 questions but got answered only to one, however no problem, until i'm in good health there is no hurry, lol. the most urgent was in which thread i should post, anyway, since we are all here i post here.

just a few considerations on the posts below. if jimmyboy caught something in the end of june in those clubs i would have liked to know, since i went there as little as 3 weeks later. nobody can know if the girl who infected him is still there or not and if she has been cured or not (since she may not even have symptoms, being just a carrier) , which was the point of my questions about "holidays" and turnovers. the fact that larissa in vv doesn't shower after the sessions (but she might have been quicker than jimmy) also could have been interesting to know, since i went with a larissa in vv. this said, you don't need to be a doctor to guess the risks of unprotected sex, if i would have known those infos however i reckon it wouldn't have made a big difference: it will not be a shower preventing infections, even if obviously it's better to take the shower rather than not, and i'm old enough, even if probably not intelligent enough, to make decisions. i really had great fantastic sex, probably some of the best sessions ever in my long and considerable p4p career (several hundreds of sessions happened before i joined isg, anyway many nrw ones had the advantage of being uncovered therefore i must keep it into account if i make a ranking) and at level with only one of my girlfriends, a nynphomaniac even worse than me. to be honest, with the service offered in vv and arabella you would be happy also with covered sex, not forgetting the price! but there is an important difference between the 2 clubs, apart from minor things: i found only 3-4 girls fuckable in vv, in ara nearly all of them, with some outstanding: sabrina could be an attraction in major fkks, wouldn't be at all out of place in artemis, not to talk about her skills, attitudes, performances, enthusiasm, energy, intensity, initiative, committment, passion, etc. (what else am i forgetting? i just don't have words left). i couldn't believe i could do anything but anal with her for some 45 mins (yes, even overtime!) for 30 euros! bella, denise, carmen are far better than what i saw in haus-panthera 3 months ago. for you to laugh, and you can believe me, when i arrived home yesterday i went to sleep and dreamt of arabella, now i'm writing and having huge erections! so sad to be back home!

anyway what is done is done, and i agree with jimmy that those sensations are worth some risk, if you come out with little or nothing, obviously. as of now, i'm really happy i did what i did. not just for the barebacking, i'm sure many of us have done it with dead or little participating girlfriends, so it's not just for the strict physical sensations. i wouldn't call gfe many of the sessions i had in this trip: especially in arabella, i have been repeatedly molested, assaulted, held and withheld, abused, raped, bited, chewed, mercilessly and relentlessy blown and fucked, not even after unloading the girls, especially sabrina, who also tried to kissmark me and partially succeeded, would give me peace and kept torturing me, ignoring my supplications for pity and warnings about possible time finish, actually i got complaints i wanted to quit them too early! i don't know if they behave like that with everyone, sabrina told me she was like that only with me, she even came twice and i really felt the increase of wet moisture while she was shaking during the "fights". i don't mean to brag about myself, but i'm relatively young and handsome, i am often relatively welcome and accepted by "providers", i don't think she gives that service to a 65 years old 150 kg man. by the way, she also said she can refuse customers if she doesn't like them. can they do that?

guys, i got to go now, i'll post more eventually

[QUOTE=Optimist;1452884]I think it is helpful to know if a member has picked up an infection. It helps other members get a better anecdotal picture of what can happen. However it should always be done simply as a matter of reporting a fact, without any moralising or drawing any conclusions.[/QUOTE]My only thought is it serves as a reminder to all of us that we are all taking a risk at every club. I don't want somebody preaching about the sins of the flesh and abstaining from this activity. But I also don't want somebody preaching about what a post does to a clubs business.

[QUOTE=Breadman;1452934]My only thought is it serves as a reminder to all of us that we are all taking a risk at every club. I don't want somebody preaching about the sins of the flesh and abstaining from this activity. But I also don't want somebody preaching about what a post does to a clubs business.[/QUOTE]Well, in this trip for many times I wasn't a sinner in the strict religious meaning, since I didn't use a condom and unloaded inside, LOL! One of the few times my conscience is clean!

As to effects on clubs' businesses, I think it's more about the worry that they might close, which is something you don't want to happen if you like going there, than a concern about their own earnings.

Also, I don't think we need reminders about the risks one faces when practicing uncovered sex, wether punters post it or not. One of the girls told me they get checked every 2 weeks, but that doesn't make a big difference, if you go with a girl after a guy who has something you have chances to get that anyway.

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1452949]As to effects on clubs' businesses, I think it's more about the worry that they might close, which is something you don't want to happen if you like going there, than a concern about their own earnings.[/QUOTE]I highly doubt any posts in this forum would bring about the closing of even the smallest club in Germany.

I don't know why they call themselves club. Apart the small sauna by the lockers, which may "damage" some of your belongings because of the heat, there is a very small lounge with a corner bar and a small smokers area. When you climb there, the bartender asks you what you'd like to drink, collects the entrance fee, informs you about prices and policies, which can be found on their website, and tells you that AO costs 30 euros more, which is not on their website. She calls and recalls all the girls available from their reserved place to line up on the chairs as soon as possible, like it happens in normal flats. They all stay staring at you with a smile and will keep on doing it "everywhere" you go. I didn't like that, because it made me feel forced to choose at once, the smiles seemed forced and somehow begging for you to choose them. Both when entering or finishing the first session, I tried to seek refuge in the smoking area, separated by a glass and with some curtains which I pulled a little to shelter myself, but still mostly I stayed watching the roof or the floor, since they don't follow you physically, but keep on following each and any of your movements with those undesiderable (to me) smiles and glances. Honestly, I say this to give you a clue and not to offend them, they looked like a dog waiting (begging) for you to give him the chocolate. Conversations must be very quick, if an agreement is not reached, then you must split. Even if you are the only man in the "club", conversation is not a pastime, even girls seem not to talk among them if a customer is around. Everything seems to be constantly monitored, the "candidate" will leave you quickly or make you understand the conversation is over, I was even "warned" by a girl that I could be asked why I spoke to her but didn't interact. If you add to this the fact that TVs are off, there is no wi-fi and you probably are not going to talk to a man, if there is any, then you understand the atmosphere: you are locked in there, can't watch out of the window nor take a walk in a garden. Pratically, but maybe that's what they want, since anyway there is not room enough to host the 7-8 girls I found plus other 7 individuals, you can't do anything else but interacting and leave. The pics are real, but they are taken with a good dose of make up and in good positions that highlight the good and hide the bad of the girls. For the record, I sessioned both times with 2 girls in a short while and left, nothing worth being reported from the battling field, they were young and not experienced, but had good will to please me (how they could) on my first visit, on the second trip one of them did hardly the minimum necessary, a (great, she was perfectly mastering it, she just was lazy and /or didn't like me) BBBJ refusing CIM, and the other one again "what she could how she could".

VV is another planet, Arabella another universe.

More to come.

P. S. Breadman, obviously posts here don't have that much power, but many people read and then can talk to other people and spread rumours. I wouldn't know about these clubs without this forum, a friend of mine has already asked for holidays at work to go to NRW after listening to my stories, then he may talk to other guys who may talk to other ones, etc. Unfortunately I won't get commissions by Arabella, but if bad rumours somehow spread, of course there will be a damage, which may lead to some changes or problems for the "users"

[QUOTE=Breadman;1452968]I highly doubt any posts in this forum would bring about the closing of even the smallest club in Germany.[/QUOTE]Agreed. The percentage of foreigners to locals visiting these AO clubs I suspect is quite low. They survive based on local traffic. As such, the incidence of STDs transmission is also probably pretty low, otherwise, if every local that went there got infected, it would soon close for lack of customers or be shut down as a health hazard by the authorities.

Eastgoing,

Who were the girls you picked up at Club Angelique? I was there in April and had good meetings with Ruby, Vanessa and Kathie (who doesn't work in CA anymore sadly).

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1453127]I don't know why they call themselves club.[/QUOTE]There are other such hoorhouses, who also call themselves clubs without being an actual club. Club Heidi comes to mind, which Vito Corleone pointed out to me when I first started up my AO-map. That's a regular hoorhouse too, but without any flatrate events. That's why didn't put it on the map, and Angelique wouldn't be on there either if it wasn't for their (very) sporadic flatrate days every few months.

I also think that reports on Angelique are misplaced in this thread, since as you pointed out, it's no club. I'd say reports are better off in the Bareback AO thread, and if one did not do AO, then the Other Areas thread of the Germany forum would be the choice.

[QUOTE]but if bad rumours somehow spread, of course there will be a damage, which may lead to some changes or problems for the "users"[/QUOTE]THANK you! You seem to know how rumours can get spread. Although I generally agree with Breadman's assessment that no club will suffer much soley from what is written here about them, the problem is word of mouth, which works in either direction, good or bad. For example: Someone reads something here about an STD-rumour at a certain club, then tells a Dutchman about it, that one writes about it in a Dutch forum and the club starts to wonder why all of a sudden there are no Dutch and Flemish guys around anymore. Something like that had already happened, the damage was however limited because the majority of the custumers were Germans who don't read any Dutch. (And no, that was not at any of those clubs mentioned in this thread.)

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1453127]She calls and recalls all the girls available from their reserved place to line up on the chairs as soon as possible, like it happens in normal flats. They all stay staring at you with a smile and will keep on doing it "everywhere" you go. I didn't like that, because it made me feel forced to choose at once, the smiles seemed forced and somehow begging for you to choose them. Both when entering or finishing the first session, I tried to seek refuge in the smoking area, separated by a glass and with some curtains which I pulled a little to shelter myself, but still mostly I stayed watching the roof or the floor, since they don't follow you physically, but keep on following each and any of your movements with those undesiderable (to me) smiles and glances. Honestly, I say this to give you a clue and not to offend them, they looked like a dog waiting (begging) for you to give him the chocolate.[/QUOTE]Young, fairly attractive girls who all line up before you dutifully so that you can choose whichever one you want. Who are constantly smiling and staring at you with begging looks. With eyes that say that they are desperate for you to empty your sperm into their unprotected pussies.

It's a tough life!

[QUOTE=BigBuddy69; 1453335]A tEastgoing,

Who were the girls you picked up at Club Angelique? I was there in April and had good meetings with Ruby, Vanessa and Kathie (who doesn't work in CA anymore sadly).[/QUOTE]I went with a girl named Kathi in July. She may or may not be the same girl you went with.

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1453127]I don't know why they call themselves club. Apart the small sauna by the lockers, which may "damage" some of your belongings because of the heat, there is a very small lounge with a corner bar and a small smokers area. When you climb there, the bartender asks you what you'd like to drink, collects the entrance fee, informs you about prices and policies, which can be found on their website, and tells you that AO costs 30 euros more, which is not on their website. She calls and recalls all the girls available from their reserved place to line up on the chairs as soon as possible, like it happens in normal flats. They all stay staring at you with a smile and will keep on doing it "everywhere" you go. I didn't like that, because it made me feel forced to choose at once, the smiles seemed forced and somehow begging for you to choose them. Both when entering or finishing the first session, I tried to seek refuge in the smoking area, separated by a glass and with some curtains which I pulled a little to shelter myself, but still mostly I stayed watching the roof or the floor, since they don't follow you physically, but keep on following each and any of your movements with those undesiderable (to me) smiles and glances. Honestly, I say this to give you a clue and not to offend them, they looked like a dog waiting (begging) for you to give him the chocolate. Conversations must be very quick, if an agreement is not reached, then you must split. Even if you are the only man in the "club", conversation is not a pastime, even girls seem not to talk among them if a customer is around. Everything seems to be constantly monitored, the "candidate" will leave you quickly or make you understand the conversation is over, I was even "warned" by a girl that I could be asked why I spoke to her but didn't interact. If you add to this the fact that TVs are off, there is no wi-fi and you probably are not going to talk to a man, if there is any, then you understand the atmosphere: you are locked in there, can't watch out of the window nor take a walk in a garden. Pratically, but maybe that's what they want, since anyway there is not room enough to host the 7-8 girls I found plus other 7 individuals, you can't do anything else but interacting and leave. The pics are real, but they are taken with a good dose of make up and in good positions that highlight the good and hide the bad of the girls. For the record, I sessioned both times with 2 girls in a short while and left, nothing worth being reported from the battling field, they were young and not experienced, but had good will to please me (how they could) on my first visit, on the second trip one of them did hardly the minimum necessary, a (great, she was perfectly mastering it, she just was lazy and /or didn't like me) BBBJ refusing CIM, and the other one again "what she could how she could"."[/QUOTE]I went there twice at the end of June. The first time I was there I felt the same sense of awkwardness, with 6 girls sitting on their stools looking at me. I told them they didn't have to sit on their stools since I wasn't ready to chose, but they didn't move. I finally walked up to each of them and identified the ones I recognized from the website. I chose Lorena, a big-titted blonde. We had a great bareback hour session but she tried to cheat me out of 20 Euro (10 Euro Tuesday discount on session (didn't) and 10 Euro extra for bareback (did). She also told me CIM was 50 Euro and anal 100 Euro extra, which I declined, and don't know if they are accurate. As Eastgoing said, there is nothing to do there but I did have my cell phone and played some games on it to while the time away while I recovered for the next session, which was with Kathi, another great session (1/2 hour) , and lastly a good hour session with Alina (no longer there). The girls did move around and some danced when there was appropriate dance music, so it wasn't like it was a morgue.

The second visit I found that I had been missing out on substantial couch time when I observed the girls sitting and making out with customers. I availed myself of this pre-room fun with Vanessa and Kathi, before having two more great hour sessions. I found most of the girls at Club Angelique attractive to very attractive and the service was outstanding, and would certainly go there again.

SL, I asked where should I post, with other few questions which nobody bothered to answer yet, the ones who seemed more interesting to me being about "holidays and turnovers" and if girls can refuse a customer. Since the AO clubs thread has been death sentenced, by you, to my regret, and having seen that somebody else posted here about Angelique, I put it here. BTW, I wasn't given any code to access their website.

[QUOTE=Jimmy Boy 99;1453179]Agreed. The percentage of foreigners to locals visiting these AO clubs I suspect is quite low. They survive based on local traffic. As such, the incidence of STDs transmission is also probably pretty low, otherwise, if every local that went there got infected, it would soon close for lack of customers or be shut down as a health hazard by the authorities.[/QUOTE]I like this a lot, that's what I thought too and gave me the courage (don't laugh; P) to do it when I was so reluctant.

[QUOTE=Breadman;1452563]For the guys planning longer trips, avoid what happened with Jimmy and try to visit AO clubs near the end of a trip.[/QUOTE]I'm reading on google about incubation periods, if your trip lasts about one week or little more nothing should come up even if you caught it on your first day.

[QUOTE=Myrrh; 1453455]Young, fairly attractive girls who all line up before you dutifully so that you can choose whichever one you want. Who are constantly smiling and staring at you with begging looks. With eyes that say that they are desperate for you to empty your sperm into their unprotected pussies.

It's a tough life![/QUOTE]Yes, I appreciate your joke, but honestly it's acceptable (or better masked) in bigger establishments, where the broiler chickens have some room to move and spread their wings, not only their legs, a TV or even a kino in whose movies none is interested, a garden to walk, not mentioning pools or sunbathing. In Angelique I, as a free customer in the condition you described above, felt like a sort of prisoner.

[QUOTE=Jimmy Boy 99; 1453526].

The second visit I found that I had been missing out on substantial couch time when I observed the girls sitting and making out with customers. I availed myself of this pre-room fun with Vanessa and Kathi, before having two more great hour sessions. I found most of the girls at Club Angelique attractive to very attractive and the service was outstanding, and would certainly go there again.[/QUOTE]I thought the same on my second visit, because on the first I was the only man! Well, I asked a "couple" who had been talking a lot of time about their freedom: the guy was a regular and the girl was not on duty yet, otherwise, as previously said, a couple of minutes will be more than enough to see if candle's sparkled. I sessioned with Evelyn, Vanessa, Alice and Denisa. Personally I don't think I'll go back there, I already went back by mistake, I'd rather go to bigger clubs, with more girls and lower cost: in VV & C. Everything is included, here 30mins are more expensive and AO is not included.

[QUOTE=Johncr04; 1449458]Newbie question here. Was wondering how one would get the username and password to see the expanded pictures section on their website. Is it generic or does one need to sign up?

Thanks![/QUOTE]That's why I skipped this club on my last trip. If I can't see the pictures beforehand, I prefer to go somewhere else.

I went to Villa Venus at about 5pm. Somebody posted it's difficult to reach without a car, well, I got strasserbahn to Amsterdamer Strasse and walked some 20 mins, for those bothering there was a bus stop about 5 mins walk off the club but I didn't want to look for further connections (also, on the way back, being technologically impaired, I even got lost and wandered a good 15 mins more luckily finding the right track, LOL!). The club inside looks fair enough, I'm sorry but I forgot the most details after the traumas I underwent in Arabella, I still consider myself a newbie to Germany and I was a total 0 in this kind of clubs, so I hope I'll get some sympathy and comprehension at least by non-pro-posters which abund in german threads and make me feel a little child, while in all other threads I'm fairly respected.

Anyway, there were 18 girls which made me choose the 110 euros for the 3 sessions option. My doubts were due to the sight of (to my standards) many unfuckable girls, but being everything allowed honestly you can't help choosing that. The girls were sitting alone on 2-seats-sofas, all cheerful and smiling (not begging or looking like) , the atmosphere was friendly and relaxed, nobody seemed to be under any pressure nor made me feel pressure on me, some couples chatting or starting preliminaries, girls talking to each other or walking around were completing the picture. After showering and trying to get mentally acquainted with the club, the girls and (basically) the "main course", I choose (I'm not sure of the name) Alice, tall fake blond, not too bad physically, but really unwatchable boobs, they seemed drained, empty, falling dead, something that was common to the very most of girls I saw there that day, I wonder if it'a sort of virus that spread among them, LOL! Anyway in that moment she was the "less worse".

I asked for a simple BBBJ, she was very nice, caring, we had a lot of fun hearing the moans and noises of our "neighbours". It was like having them with us, since the walls were not to the roof. She gave a very good service, I didn't feel like fucking her because that boob detail annoyed me, I thought I'd save a "disease-lottery-ticket" for a girl I would find fuckable, I had spotted the 3 "victims" when I was already committed with her. I CIMmed and she happily swallowed, I didn't realize that at once, only after a couple of minutes, because I noticed she waited for the very last drop, carried on and didn't stand away nor got napkins for spitting. However, good time and good service, we joked and played still a few minutes and then split.
Second session was with Bianca, who had opened the door to me and then disappeared. A bit short, bum a bit big, anyway fuckable. If I'm not mistaken she has been positively mentioned in the forum, or maybe other forums. Well, great service, great blowing, great fucking, great session, surely recommendable. In that moment I thought I couldn't get better from the point of view of performance, attitude and service (of course not about the body).
Last prey was supposed to be Gaby, another short brunette, but slim and proportionate, I even had tried to tell her that I would go with her eventually when she was walking by my sofa, but she spoke no english and instead of stopping she kept walking away. I was joined by the "owner" of the sofa, Larissa, who was one of the 3 I reckoned more fuckable, being slim, proportionate and taller than the other 2 candidates (not that it was difficult to find taller ones). We started talking and I tried to tell her that I had promised my heart (poetic euphemism) to another girl, so I could have left her place if she wanted. She wanted me to stay, we had a pleasant conversation, added to the fact that Gaby was lost in space and hadn't shown interest in me, I gave in and we moved to the room. Good blowing, great fucking, great service, less skills than Bianca but more fun, less PSE than her but more GFE, very good session anyway. I'd dare to say she put less professionality and more personal involvement than Bianca, therefore she might be less recommendable, Jimmyboy wasn't very happy with her, if she's the same one.

Before leaving I saw Gaby, I thought about going with her too, but it was also a bit late and opted for leaving. Quite happy for the service, price, atmosphere and the overall, I thought I was likely to return, I recalled an enthusiastic post of a guy who had been here for the first time a few months ago and I was agreeing and sharing his feelings. I didn't know what storms were awaiting me in Arabella.

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1453797]Gaby, another short brunette, but slim and proportionate, I even had tried to tell her that I would go with her eventually when she was walking by my sofa, but she spoke no english and instead of stopping she kept walking away. . I was joined by the "owner" of the sofa, Larissa. . I'd dare to say she put less professionality and more personal involvement than Bianca, therefore she might be less recommendable, Jimmyboy wasn't very happy with her, if she's the same one.[/QUOTE]I went with Gaby and as far as I recall she spoke at least some English. Larissa was an OK session, just not as good as the others.

[QUOTE=EastGoing; 1453797]I still consider myself a newbie to Germany and I was a total 0 in this kind of clubs, so I hope I'll get some sympathy and comprehension at least by non-pro-posters which abund in german threads and make me feel a little child, while in all other threads I'm fairly respected.[/Quote]

I obviously mean that there is an abundance of members who know a lot about our hobby here, compared to other threads where residents or frequent travellers are very low in numbers and posts.

[QUOTE=Jimmy Boy 99;1453806]I went with Gaby and as far as I recall she spoke at least some English. Larissa was an OK session, just not as good as the others.[/QUOTE]I speak reasonably fluently four languages, obviously english being the main one when travelling, so I have hopes to manage to find girls who can conversate with me in one way or another, especially if they are romanians, latin. As to Gaby, I don't know, maybe she didn't like me, she could have stopped a second for money if not for love, she's there for money and I was there for sex, but she just kept walking. I remember asking her "you speak english?","No" was her answer. Probably better like that, I was quite happy with Larissa's time and session.

I disovered VV last March, and had a really good time there, to the point that this is now my favorite FKK in the whole of Germany.

I know that this will be hard to understand by many, but I prefer the laid back atmosphere, full included service, no upsell, no extras etc. To the constant bickering and poor service with optifucks in bigger Hesse clubs. To each his own, of course.

Trying to find excuses to go back, but in the meantime, keep the reports coming!

Got there mid afternoon. 3 bus stops from Wattenscheid Hbf plus a few minutes walk, or 20 mins walking at normal pace, but here it's impossible to get lost even for me, LOL! When I entered I smelt by the stairs going to lockers and showers an unpleasant smell of wet moquette, but got instantly over it. Thekkenfrau was very nice, over mid 40, tall, blonde, blue-eyed, english speaking, smiling and cheerful, must have been great in her time. She took care of me very nicely all the time I was there with each and everything I might ask (or even not, if she saw I was in doubt about something or looking for, she'd promptly intervene) , I was expecting her to follow me in the room to make sure I worked out what I was supposed to be there for. Actually many girls were looking at me with an amused smile when I entered and during my stay. Was it so blatantly clear I was a newbie not only in there, where they obviously had never seem me before, but in an AO club, in any club, in Germany, with a girl? Was I the youngest and / or most beautiful (yes)? Did I look like a tender virgin to play with, have fun and initiate to sex pleasures? Would they enjoy their time with a toy boy?

After the introduction and the payment of 60euros-one-shot-included, I showered, took a walk around and noticed, to my great surprise, that nearly all girls, maybe even all, were reasonably fuckable. With some being "remarkable". Not all of them were portraited, because some were new.

BTW, IF I DON'T GET ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS ABOUT "HOLIDAYS AND TURNOVERS" AND IF A GIRL CAN REFUSE A CUSTOMER, I DON'T POST ANYMORE! :P.

A CHILDISH SPOILT BRAT.

I spotted Sabrina sitting proud in the corner like a queen on the throne, she seemed easily the one with the best body, but I want to see all the "goods", in front and behind, because I prefer to choose knowingly and not find surprises, I didn't feel like asking her to stand and turn, also in that moment she wasn't smiling, so I continued my tour. I noticed Moldovan Gaby, somebody not too long ago posted a pic of her with red hair in some thread, not this one, saying she would do AO, I was sure she was supposed to be somewhere else. Now she's blonde, the haircut is the same, when I had seen that photo I hoped I would come across here if I went to that (which one?) club, but having her in front of me gave me a different sensation. She's not bad physically, but didn't attract me, nor did her general attitude. Actually, if she had been in VV I would have taken her for sure, but the competitors in Arabella were many, younger and more attractive by all points of view.

Shortening, I got in touch with Denisa, new in there, black hair with blonde stripes, more than fair body, brightest, most sincere-looking and most captivating smile of the trip. We had a nice brief conversation about our past "careers" and "fell in love". There were other men around, but the most of eyes were on me, I didn't know if I had to be proud or disappointed with that, but it was embarrassing. She took me by hand going to the room, with that great smile printed on her face, I'm not used to see such an "enthusiasm", thekkenfrau gave us a blessing, she seemed emotionated like a mum to a marriage.

A few little premises: like most of us, I'm used to wooden unwillingly unenthusiastic corpses; I don't like FK because I don't fancy snowball leftovers; in this trip I had my first AO experiences, which I'm even shy reporting and don't even specify clearly; I don't DATY because (take a seat and hold tight!) I'm afraid of catching diseases (explaination: since it's me paying for my own pleasure, the mucosa involved must be mine and risks and odds must be by my side).

This said, the action was according to bookmakers' expectations towards the sacrificial victim: she played me like a muppet, SHE had a lot of fun assaulting a nearly defenseless and helpless shy beginner pupil, she did all she wanted with me, kissing, blowing, fucking, from all sides and positions, a massacre. When I unloaded she kept hugging, caressing and kissing me, not forgetting a few bites, WTF, was I dreaming? When she had enough she set me free, I'm reasonably convinced we stayed longer than 30 mins. I couldn't help promising her that, if she gave me permission, I would post about her on internet (otherwise I wouldn't? LOL!) , she was very glad to hear that. I headed to the showers staggering and fearing that the water might make me wake up.

Not to write a book, I go straight to second executioner: Bella. Her approach and execution was colder, slower, more professional, but it was very difficult to get to the peaks of Denisa, who can get that far? Bella is a beautiful girl, tall, pretty face, black hair. Great session, getting better and better with time going by because she was letting herself go enjoying what we were doing. While becoming more "familiar" with me, she also took her slice of fun by taking advantage of the unexperienced alien who happened to land there that day. She didn't abuse too much of what was left by Denisa, and when we finished we split but kept joking and laughing also in the hall, something I wouldn't imagine in Angelique.

Sabrina had been quite busy, I had seen her walking around and I was wondering how such a body could be had for such little money, no matter what treatment she could give. Other girls told her in front of me I would have liked to go with her, and she turned out "but he has already been with 2!", sounding like she really didn't want me. I felt not at ease and told her that if she didn't want me I wouldn't insist, she said "no, it's ok" sounding like sorry and hardly bearing the task. I went to shower first, eventually she'll tell me that in the meantime she asked infos about me, LOL, how I am, how I do, etc. A few lines above I asked a question, now I have the answer: Sabrina, a fierce, ferocious wild savage beast, a real tiger with fangs and claws. Luckily she didn't want to come with me, what if she had come with me willingly? (I'll find out on my second visit...). Or maybe she feared she'd give me the "coup de grace", therefore it was better for me to avoid her? After a difficult beginning with her ravening, devouring and tearing me to pieces, at a certain point of the fight I found her weak point: being fucked from behind. During the several contortions it was always her leading the game, now I was in control. She said she wanted to change position, I asked "why, because you can't bite me like this?","no, because I'll end up coming and I don't want to". WTF, she managed to escape and rejump on me, but in the end I managed to tame her, repositionate her and we both happily released. Not too many words to describe this session, she didn't even want to "unplug" and tried to be sweet and gentle, a little kitten. It took a good while before we go out of the room, this time I watched the clock. 45mins abundant.

A little while after, I picked up my pieces, greeted warmly and gratefully even the sofas and the tiles, and put an end to the greatest mongering (and non) day of my career and sexual life.

Funny how things can change in a few months.

Last March I went first to Arabella full of expectations, and was quite disappointed by the line up. Then went to VVenus and was ecstatic there. Seems that things have changed again, and that Arabella is now again back on top.

Anyway, I always rent a car when travelling there, so can shift from one to another if required.

Tough life.

i'm going to share some random observations, excuse me for withholding some infos and details, but i'm really posting much more than i thought i would, also, the fact of delayed posting implies forgetting things, anyway i'm giving you many infos about this clubs that may be of interest to everybody, especially regarding the "atmospheres", which are more important than the mere numbers and "gossip", names, etc, probably it won't make a big difference or be of help to you to know in how many positions sabrina (just to take a random one) and i coupled. just bear in mind that those are my impressions and what happened to me, it may not be the same for everyone. as i just pmed back to a fellow appreciating my reports, it's also a matter of luck, habits, likings, chemistry, etc.

[quote=swingerlover;1402592]can't speak for the fkk-girls, but judging from the ao-girls in krefeld i'm under the impression that they don't "apprechiate" the use of condoms for health reasons, but because they are too lazy to go wash after each fuck.[/quote]this masterpiece of poetry by swingerlover has been wandering in my head since reading jimmyboy's comment about larissa and another girl not going to shower after sessions, since i found it, i resume it for a laughter.

if i'm not mistaken, all girls asked me if i wanted to use a condom or not, even if i felt different scales of interest towards my answer, i mean that one was already sticking it inside, being that an obvious part of a [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url], even if in an uncommon reversed version, and one had jumped on top of me with clear intentions and probably just remembered by chance to ask. when i democratically asked back if they wanted to use it, a good half said they preferred not to, even with enthusiasm, one had a bright light in her eyes while steadily saying "i obviously prefer without", the others said it was the same for them, and didn't have any special reaction after my decision, seemed like ordering a beer rather than a coke to the waitress.

if i'm not mistaken, nearly all the girls i sessioned with had no hurry at all to stand up and leave, they wanted (i underline wanted, not just agreed or accepted a request from me, it was their genuine intention) to stay a little bit more after i released, some of them with the dick (and fluids) still inside, some still playing with it "after", it was always and only me the one who wanted to rush to bathroom (in ao sessions) , and quite a few times i found (successful) opposition to my intent, with even complaints for wanting to drop them as soon as unloaded. i consider this a "plus", a sign of appreciation and liking towards me, again, i don't know, but honestly i don't believe they behave like that with everyone. bianca, a real professional, probably the only one i met (i think she could easily shoot as a porn actress, even if she doesn't have the body) , parted quite quickly: mission accomplished, a few post-action-pleasantries and bye; in angelique only evelyn wasn't in a hurry, but i wouldn't even include (and in some things i didn't) that club in my considerations, it was the only one of the 3 places where i could find defects, i think that if they didn't offer ao they wouldn't go that far. in vv and ara i wasn't refused anything, i was offered (given?"imposed"?) everything, happily and heartily, i never felt any pression (apart the blessed "aggressions" in ara) , especially about clockwatching. actually, i reckon i never stayed less than the paid 30mins even if popping earlier (i'm used that when i pop it's over) , but most times i stayed longer than that, on my second battle with sabrina i was quite sure that thekkenfrau, a different one not english speaking, would charge me more, because before entering the room i had heard a discussion with another customer about the fact that they would ask 120 euros for one hour with a girl. i had asked sabrina to translate that because i wanted to sequester my honey, even for longer, but obviously it was better to make 2 30mins sessions for 60 euros (gosh. 1 euro / min, a phone call from home to my german mobile number would cost more). bella was the "quickest" to stand up for leaving in ara, but still took 3-4 mins o'clock. somehow i feel sorry for making her look like in a secondary position, in another context i'd vow meeting her like a stroke of luck, i would sign instantly to find beforehand a girl like her in most places i visit. if i had met her in vv i'd have been enthusiastic and i'd have magnified her and the club, remember that i declared being quite happy there for going with girls she would overwhelm from all points of view. but meeting her (a handsome and somehow classy girl, with quite good skills in bed but more moderated and more "in control" than my 2 favourites when performing) , between denisa and sabrina, 2 rough barbarians who, one in a light-hearted way, like playing a game, one like a tireless warrior, really smashed and brutalized me,"unfortunately" makes her look nothing special, but she's worth a visit.

[quote=dreams;1454036]i know that this will be hard to understand by many, but i prefer the laid back atmosphere, full included service, no upsell, no extras etc. to the constant bickering and poor service with optifucks in bigger hesse clubs. to each his own, of course.[/quote]thanks for appreciating my reports, i fully agree with the above, actually it should be harder to understand the contrary

Since the AO Club thread is closed, there is no Club Angelique thread, and this thread is no longer solely about VV, Arabella, and SG as there are now Club Angelique reports in this thread, perhaps Admin can change the thread title so that new readers who are interested in Club Angelique will know that there are reports on the club here.

when i was to leave on day 1, after greeting whomever and whatever, what attracted more my attention, which was roughly equal to the one of a knocked out boxer, was denise's and her neighbours' smiles. i'm sure girls must have laughed a lot while chitchatting among them about me. who knows what she said to sabrina while i went to shower before sessioning with her, probably she convinced her that she would have had fun, since she had sounded so reluctant. denise was one of the girls who halted sabrina to tell her that i wanted to go with her, rejecting her objections about me having already been with 2.

back to me leaving, thekkenfrau had called sabrina, who was hanging around by there, i don't know if on her own or awaiting me, to accompany me out. i thought we had already kissed goodbye when finishing our session. normally i don't go back to girls i've already been with, basically because i like to change, but also to avoid spoiling memories if session was good. while licking my wounds, i was strongly considering another visit in arabella, not sure yet, but when she embraced and kissed me by the exit, all doubts were swept away by the same storms that had invested me that day. i'm sure she read in my eyes she would see me again, in spite of me declaring nothing about that.

on day 2, having become obvious even to myself, not only to my dick, that i was basically going back for denise and sabrina, let's say for the "revenge", and not to taste the other fuckable girls, i wanted to make sure they were at work. i rang arabella, the thekkenfrau on duty didn't speak english but i understood with great sorrow that only sabrina was there. i tried to console myself by thinking that anyway she was the best of the 2, and maybe i could focus only on her, against all my principles, especially mongering ones, who state not to stick to one girl as a main rule. when i arrived she was walking by the entrance, destiny is destiny, she warmly welcomed me, i told her "i came back for you, honey", she knew it, she smiled "i know", she told me to go and shower, she'd wait for me.

in the room she half-ironically asked me if the person phoning to ask about denise and sabrina was me. she's so smart, and she always inexplicably knows all i do, i love that. i forgot to mention that she is 19 years-old, a real monster, especially considering her age, sabrina is 30, more than 10 years experienced. i never had a real 3some (once in car i got blown by 2, obviously romanians, quite uncomfortable) , should i ever have it i can't imagine better candidates: among other advantages, i wouldn't have to worry about directing or taking initiatives, only problem would be my integrity and safety, luckily there weren't "toys" in the rooms (apart from me).

during the "warming up", she declared to me that today her main and first goal would be to kissmark me allover, i don't know if that was due to the fact that i had informed her i'd leave the following morning, anyway quite a good start for a declaration of war. i told her not to or to just be happy with a small one, maybe because i'm a bit childish, i've always liked having them for showing off to wankers and other girls, lol! she paused the assault for laughing, but i wasn't anymore an easy sparring partner: at lightning speed i overturned our bodies and i planted my fingers by her holes and my teeth on her neck. funnily, she was more worried for the pussy than for the rest, we couldn't help laughing when i made her notice that she wouldn't mind tens of bare cocks but she was afraid of a finger. anyway we got along fantastically to say the least, it was great to feel her getting wetter and wetter until the final reciprocal "showers", again nearly contemporaneous, again i "lost the race" for a few seconds. again, she didn't want to unplug and wanted to lay with me for further "rubbings" and cuddles. while chatting, i had informed her i found out that day that she was mentioned in forums (true, but not this one) , i showed her on her mobile, at first she was glad but got disappointed when reading about the definition of ao lady. to "change" topic, i told her it was time to go, about 45 mins, i already posted about other thekkenfrau and price discussion about timing. she got upset that i wanted to dump her in spite or her reassurances i would pay only 30mins, also being first session it was anyway included in entrance fee. i told her not to worry, we would have second and maybe, if "necessary" (lol!) , third session, but she kept complaining for me being unrespectful of her still willing to lay in bed with me, even out of the room. she was more disappointed than i thought, we split not in great mood, also i wasn't asked more money and she heavily harshly commented, all eyes on us.

she got busy soon, i thought once free she'd come to me. i had informed the other girls, by whom i had become quite popular, when receiving "avances", that i was awaiting sabrina, so that they wouldn't waste time courting me. i noticed 4-5 other "new" girls. 2-3 quite worth. the club wasn't busy, so i got involved in conversations anyway. shortening, when sabrina finished didn't come to me, i was even sitting by her couch, she totally ignored me and went to other men, once she sat nearly 1 hour o'clock on the sofa with a man, both of them laughing to my (and even neighbouring girls'!) loud falsely-amused invitations to speed up the process. the guy, a mid40 years old weighing some 140 kg, was truly enjoying his time with the star sitting on him, but i wonder if he understood the situation, if he did and took it long anyway, he was a real bas.... i wonder if he paid for that time, if not why thekkenfrau didn't intervene? they were in front of the counter! the other girls didn't go farther than offering me their services, i couldn't understand what else they were saying among themselves, but i guess there were comments on what was going on. i couldn't make a melodrama, she was not my girlfriend, she's a prostitute in a (ao!) brothel where i was a simple client, she could be my daughter (even if that same day i was quoted 32 and by one 26, i hope for her she was joking, because she sounded serious while repeating it 3 times) , etc. what was annoying me more was the fact of possibly looking like a jealous exboyfriend, and actually i realized feeling clues of the presence of bloody stupid unwanted feelings of jealousy, affection, etc, all bullshit i was sure, and i had promised myself, i wouldn't feel anymore. maximum i could do would have been, as a customer and not as a boyfriend or ex, to complain to thekkenfrau for excessive couch time, but i would have been more ridiculous than i am by writing these facts in the forum. i was not in the mood to go with another girl, even if that was the obvious and more natural thing, repeatedly suggested by spectators, i'd say really even out of their own possible interest. i publicly blame myself for being so childish and stupid in certain things, but i didn't like that game, i wasn't playing a role, i was really fuming. after a couple of hours, meeting me while walking around she tried to establish a contact for some 3 times, first by greeting then by calling me, but i wouldn't mind her. the other girls, mostly doing nothing, followed the show, but they were all by my side, lol! i had already declared long before that i wouldn't go with sabrina anymore, when the girls were saying things like "there she is, go go".
i just was waiting for her to come to me, i knew she would, it was a likely part of the bloody game. i was sitting on a sofa, she came to me with a smile, i just had the time to tell her that i was waiting for a girl who was busy. the spectators, heard that, intervened even from the neighbouring hall, all telling her off in romanian, a couple of them really badly, again i'm surprised thekkenfrau said nothing, but maybe she was away in that moment, it was really a riot. imagine the scene: small club and nearly without customers around in that moment, with 5-6 girls all together accusing one standing motionless in the middle, i even understood clearly "he's been waiting for you for 3 hours" in romanian. seconds later carmen (i think it was her name, sorry, she wasn't at work on day 1) walked in this mess, wondering what was going on, i stopped her, a moment of silence, she was surprised i wanted her, she couldn't believe me (sabrina was standing in front of me, beside her!) , i grabbed her and went for it leaving behind us the restarted trial to sabrina.

the session was enjoyable, peaceful and tender, what we would normally define a gfe. if you photoshop her belly a bit, but even if you don't, carmen is a pretty possibly 30 years old girl with a very pretty face and nice smile, oddly in the room i realized that her upper jaw has teeth only in the "smile area", good for her they are in the important place, also, what you don't see you don't miss. she really seemed happy, nearly grateful, thrilled, excited, for being chosen. she has a lovely character, i had a good part of the afternoon to appreciate it, she did all she could to please me and she certainly succedeed, she even made me forget about the girl that should have been in her place in that moment. had moments of fun while sucking her lovely tender boobs, she said many punters like them, i also liked her tickled reactions. i chosed her because she seemed the best one in the overall, not just because she walked by in that moment (she came in the perfect moment, not even if agreed it could happen so perfect) or to make a spite to sabrina, i was really waiting for her, i say this for justice towards her, i'd willingly go again with her, she wasn't an expedient or a stopgap, but obviously she couldn't be the first choice with my 2 favourites available.

fully satisfied i went for showering and got changed, upstairs everything was quiet, i didn't see sabrina. i paid, greeted, thanked and headed to the exit. she walked by there looking at me like a beaten dog, i ironically said "bye honey" without stopping and left, if i'm not mistaken this time i wasn't accompanied, but couldn't tell for sure, obviously all my senses and thoughts were on her.

i'm glad i didn't resession with her, i considered going with her after carmen, not minding any other girl inspite of having worth ones around, but that could only lead to some trouble, i don't want and don't need to develope any kind of connection or liaison to any girl anymore, i've had my share and decided to be mongering for the rest of my life, until i have the physical and economical possibilities at least. i had reasoned on the risk of multisessioning with her, since there was such a chemistry and entente between us (obviously i can't post each and every thing we did or speak about) , which is another reason why i put in my principles not to go twice with the same girl.

in the end of august i'll be by giessen, some 200km away.

that's all (so far?)

East Going. Excellent report about Sabrina. Thank you. You certainly took the right decision. It was nice for me to know that other mongers have had the same experience of girls beginning to play emotional games and in the end (unless the mongers are wise like you) being captured by girls. I have had girls make scenes, claiming jealousy, when I went with other girls but then punishing me by making me wait for a session and so on

Your experience goes nicely with the experience of another monger who I posted about under the GoldenTime thread and linked to RoDs which (if I can steal a phrase from you) could now become " a thread of brokenhearted gullible " men :)

East Going. Sorry I don't know the answer to your questions. Certainly some of the "holidays" girls take are to get rid of infections, and sometimes they come back and don't do AO anymore. But if this applies to Arabella etc I don't know. In the big clubs around Frankfurt years ago the girls were required to be tested but no longer, since this would imply that they are employed not self-employed.

The few girls I have known well (not in AO clubs) have all got themselves regularly tested. It costs up to 250 euros for a complete private screening so I guess that girls in the cheaper clubs don't pay this.

So all in all I don't know

Thank you East Going for your honest reports. Great to read.

But are you not a little bit to harsh in your judgement over Sabrina. She is (if I got it right) 19 years old. An age where people act like childs in one moment and acts like an adult the next. I work with people of that age group every day. And it often strikes me that they are young people in grown up bodies. They live in an other world were they are the center of it, and there main interests are clothes, boys and Facebook!

Two weeks ago I visited a club three days in a row. Day one and two I went to a room with the same lady and had a great time. We also chatted a lot during the rest of the days. On my third day I did not see her during the first hour, and when I spotted her she did not look at me or say hello to me. So I acted the same! After a while I had to pass her on my way out to the terrace, so I put on a smile and said hello. She just said a silent hello. I asked her if everything was OK and why she didn't say hello or come up to me earlier. Then she looked at me with a sort of puzzeled relief, and said that she had tried to say hello to me two times just as I enterd the club, and that I had not answerd her or looked at her, and that she thougt I was mad on her for some reason. At that moment I felt extremely stupid. Here I was, a man double her age, reacting like a child and acting wounded because of a misunderstandning with a women just over 20.

It's not my intention to sound to hard. But reading your story I can very well understand how a 19 years old can act like that. Even if that don't meen that it's OK for them to do so.

But I can also very well understand how you felt.

T

Optimist,

Thanks for at least bothering to answer my questions or trying to. Larissa in VV, if I'm not mistaken, told me they take tests every 2 weeks. Since that doesn't make a big difference from a practical point of view, and it wasn't a topic I wanted to discuss having already decided to go AO, I didn't bother to ask further details. Maybe it's the House paying, maybe just for big diseases tests. I agree 250 is a high price. Hopefully someone will answer soon or later.

As to me being wise, well, I'm just experienced. I already heavily fell in the trap twice, which means I'm actually stupid, since I repeat mistakes or risk to repeat them. When I find unfuckable girls, I'm often glad because I know there will be zero risk for me to develope any feeling apart from friendship or just sympathy. Where I live my mongering is based on BBBJs in car provided by not very attractive females, really almost never I happen to fuck, being it not worth due to circumstances, and since I travel often that's not a problem, on the contrary a relaxing BBBJ gives me many more chances to enjoy and release than fucking covered an expensive stunner. Anyway, too often I have to deal with the problems you mentioned of jealousy, spites, etc. I don't trust anyone anymore, I'm given best service by paying less, always being allowed CIM and not clockwatching, but is it because I'm that beautiful? I'm not! Am I wealthy? Obviously not! Am I nice? Maybe. Could I be a possible way out to a better world, being 42, alone and nice, with a probable weak heart wrapped into banknotes for protection (since I always want to make it clear it's just "business")? Much more likely!
When I travel obviously I "risk more" because I come across fuckable, or hopefully much more than fuckable, girls, but there's no time, no occasion, and normally not second chance, so I'm safe.

Tjohoo,

Maybe you are right, but anyway Sabrina and I wouldn't have to get married, better to put an end to it, possibly badly, so that less regrets come out in case of real (pointless) feelings. Perhaps she misunderstood I didn't want her anymore? She got offended by my fear to be asked 120 euros instead of 30 by thekkenfrau, meaning I gave more importance to 90 euros than to her companionship? Or she just thought I wanted to go with her 3 hours after our first session? Or she spotted regulars and / or big-paying men? They all sound weak excuses, she misbehaved also from a professional point of view, disappointing a customer who had openly declared and vowed even to the walls that he was back for her and only for her, inspite (and nearly unrespectful) of the many fuckable available girls around! Girls who might appreciate going with me, not only for money but also for fun, many of them, Bella for instance, were there on my first visit, as I said I had become very popular, as a toyboy, LOL! Girls who even heartily, spontaneously, strongly and loudly attacked her, a compatriot, a colleague, probably a friend. Carmen couldn't believe I wanted to go with her, we had been chatting quite a while in my long "spare" time and she had seen me fuming. When I halted her she was astonished and wouldn't move, I literally had to grab her and take her away. In the room she seemed honored, she knew she wasn't supposed to be there with me (obviously not because I'm that great model) , but she didn't ask why I didn't take Sabrina. I had previously declared I wouldn't session anymore with her, but maybe nobody believed me, since I wasn't picking any other girl, anyway Carmen had being witnessing too, so maybe she was also disturbed by the fact of "stealing" (actually I kidnapped her) a customer or possibly concurring in breaking a connection (...).

Anyway, Sabrina gave me 2 extraordinary unforgettable sessions, the first one being less affected by useless feelings like respect, personal involvement, passion, etc, it was just pure violence and fun, only towards the end she melted a bit. The second one was more shared and more participated not only physically, let's call it a "higher level", inspite of her natural wildness. But maybe one of you reading my posts goes there tomorrow and she does the same to him, meaning that it's just the service that she provides to customers and that some weak gullible childish stupid man going there risks to mistake for something more than it is meant to be. Like the man Optimist reported about did. Like the man who is posting all this bullshit (and I apologize for this, I promise to quit Sabrina's topic) could have risked to do if having further sessions with her.
As you said, we are (more than) twice as much older than them, which would put us in a bad light even if they were normal girls. The ones we are talking about are prostitutes,"mine" even AO, a definition that disappointed her when reading that on the forum I showed her, before she had just been glad to read reports of people praising her. So, what would you do with them? What would you expect? Just enjoy and (try to) forget them!

BTW, my previous report should have ended like this:

"In the end of August I'll be by Giessen, some 200km away, so far.
That's all (so far?)"

P. S. : Got the puns? LOL?

[QUOTE=EastGoing; 1455590]Tjohoo,

As you said, we are (more than) twice as much older than them, which would put us in a bad light even if they were normal girls. The ones we are talking about are prostitutes,"mine" even AO, a definition that disappointed her when reading that on the forum I showed her, before she had just been glad to read reports of people praising her. So, what would you do with them? What would you expect? Just enjoy and (try to) forget them![/QUOTE]Thank you for taking your time to give me / us such I extensive honest answer.

Well first I don't care if they are prostitutes or not. When it comes to this sort of matters (feelings) we are all equal.

Second. I would (and have) ended up exactely as you did. Because they are "just" prostitutes and we are "just" humans. That said, we are just the same.

T

EastGoing,

I like others are grateful for your reports and the time and effort that you clearly put into writing them.

I must admit though to finding them a little heavy going and just a little bit perturbing.

I have been to Arabella before however for me the beauty of the place was definitely the fact that I could achieve the porn star experience (PSE) and NOT the girl friend experience (GFE).

The disposable, zipless, cum dumpster, spunk bucket type of experience. Just like having the most glorious Sunday dinner and ice cream sundae of your life as a child and not worrying about the fact that your mum will be scrubbing the pans whilst you doze off with your thumb in your mouth, deep in the land of nod.

It's like you put the most hard core DVD in the slot and then for half an hour you are fooled into thinking that you can take any attractive young woman that you see in front of you and use them to do more or less anything that you want them to do in that half hour time slot before the video credits come up. That is more pornstar than girl friend.

If I thought (or more accurately was naively hoodwinked into thinking) that they genuinely cared about me then I would run a mile. I don't want to be pondering about what they genuinely thought about me, their mood swings, possible blue periods, possible 'true' feelings or anything else whilst I am on that plane home.

With the number of sausages that these girls turn per week they couldn't possibly have any genuine feelings for anyone and I am just grateful that these mattress actresses are so good at their jobs that they manage to fool me into thinking that they do, at least for the half hour that I am with them.

After that it is a case of "back to reality, here comes gravity" as Eminem would say.

But you found love there, or of sorts? Reminds me of the words from another song (this time by Rihanna) "I found love in a hopeless place?"

Ok, sorry for not having Hessen Bub's style and writing too much, but this was the greatest sex holiday I ever had, the lowest point being on the arrival day, reported in Duisburg thread, and maximum being reached on Ara day 1, so I have more enthusiasm in writing about, not knowing if I'll ever have other holidays like this one. Writing about also helps me in reliving it.

I told some friends of mine (one has already booked the flight) that no matter if and what I might have caught, I'm happy of what I did, my only regret being not barebacking all of them and some more, since I even wasted a precious day going to Bochum partytreff and took one day of rest.

In spite of writing extensively, some things seem not to be clear.

To sum up, my appreciation is mainly due, in random order, to:

1) the extraordinary service I've been given, whether personal or available to any customer. I'm sure very most of girlfriends and wives don't even get close to that, don't even think of and not even by thinking about they could provide such sessions, whether mechanical, remote-controlled or shared;

2) doing AO, after more than one year using condoms, which I didn't use for several years, obviously gave me a different pleasure. A little thing more was that I could happily release in pussy, without anxiously having to wait to see if my girlfriend had lied about taking pills or not. Once I even refused to CIM Sabrina, who had just orgasmed. Since I CIM all year long, I didn't want to waste the chance to CIP;

3) the total lack of any worry, doubt, pressure, etc. Instead I had total peace of mind that I wouldn't be cheated about time, performances, upselling, etc. I would have been happy with much less than I got. I was happy in VV with girls physically really nothing special, just fuckable (and uncomparable to the ones I got in Ara) , who gave me quite a good service but much lower than what I got in Ara. In VV they just obeyed commands and suggestions, they put little of their own initiative, while in Ara I was even "imposed" things I didn't even ask or want, none of the girls spared any energy or effort to please and / or abuse me, LOL! Once with Sabrina there has been a moment I thought I couldn't even ask for help if I had wanted to: "against my will", she was riding my dick like mad, while holding my hands down, our fingers intertwined, and wildly DFKing me, I was nailed to the bed and thought we'd break it;

4) the comparison with what I'm used to at home and in "normal" trips, Germany included: don't tell me that the above paragraph happens normally to punters anywhere;

5) the prices, especially the value for money: I reckon that the best spent money of my life, also out of mongering, was in Arabella, and what I got was worth several times more than 30 euros for 30-45mins. Which overpaid escort or Artemis stunner would suddenly assault you from behind to kissmark you? How would you agree that,"wait for me to turn my shoulders to you and catch me by surprise?"LOL! Would it count as an extra?

As to PSE or GFE, I didn't go in those clubs hoping or aiming to one of the 2 versions, I just went for an experience, but since I was held back by the mentioned different habits, inexperience in AO and related fears, I would stick to "minimal" basic actions, main difference with a normal session being just fucking uncovered (if). Only Denisa, Sabrina and a bit Bella drove me off my paths taking me wherever they wanted (thanks so much!). Probably most GFE was Carmen, really sweet and really giving me all of her, all she could, we seemed 2 lovebirds on fire; with Bianca we made a plain porno, I was actor and director of a 20+ years ago bad movie, just blowjob and sex in different positions (thoroughly enjoyed anyway).

As to Sabrina, maybe I exaggerated some expressions or not explained well: I didn't, don't nor I'm going to love her, but I wouldn't have been sorry to meet her again, anywhere, anytime, anyhow. Our second session pleased my body and also my soul (which means I wasn't just having sex, no matter how good), and I'd say she was feeling the same or close to that. I said I was starting having some clues of useless feelings: fuming for her not coming to me and me not feeling in the mood to go with another girl. Obviously I don't have those reactions normally, I didn't mind Gaby not showing interest in me in VV, I didn't resession with worthy Bella, I didn't care of what other girls were doing, so something was clearly going wrong. Further contact would have led to arguments, explainations, reproaches and other unnecessary stuff between a prostitute and a customer, what would have been the point? If I want to get back to her I can do it, but what for? I don't know if she was truly developing feelings for me, or just acting, or trying to catch a fish in the net (which is always my main suspicion when receiving exaggerated good treatment) , but so far better like this. When I left on day 1 I didn't have any particular feeling towards Sabrina, apart from gratitude for contributing to give me the time of my life, the top day of my sexual life. I planned to go back for her and Denise, just the 2 of them. Let's say that if Denise had been at work that day, things would have very likely been different: instead of concentrating on Sabrina, planning more sessions with her and being bewitched by her, I would have had to mind a huge distraction (and destruction) of a nearly-at-level target. As I said Denise is not as good physically, but more than fair anyway, she's really great, playfully wild, excellent performer by all points of view, less rough, less violent, but still she managed to put me upside down, sweetly but mercilessly devastating me with her bright smile on all the time (when her mouth was not engaged on my flesh). When dealing with her I felt like playing (and always "losing") , with the other one more like fighting, apart from final moments, but there wasn't a massive difference, like towards the rest of the (good) girls. If I rate 10 and 11 (out of 10) my sessions with Sabrina, Denise can get minimum 9, I guess a second session could only raise the rating, as did for Sabrina.

But, to be honest, I really don't think my reaction would have been the same if Denise had behaved like Sabrina, really she meant something different.

So, hoping that my next post in this thread will be a field report, which I doubt, possibly from Arabella, possibly about Sabrina (LOL?) , I thank you all for bearing the bullshit I filled this thread with and look forward to reading your reports.

Cheers.

EG

Is it not possible that she got upset with you because after what you described as a practically transcendent session for both of you, when she may have thought of you as more than just a customer, you made her feel like a working girl (stronger word auto edited out) who was trying to cheat you out of money by not believing her when she told you she wanted to enjoy the moment a little longer and that there would be no extra cost? Would that not explain her harsh words at the reception when you were not asked to pay more, and her subsequent treatment of you?

Eastgoing. You say "Sabrina, really she meant something different". I think you are right to settle for

That as an explanation. Some things can't easily be explained.

So, hoping that my next post in this thread will be a field report, which I doubt, possibly from Arabella, possibly about Sabrina (LOL?)"

As you have said, you and Sabrina can't get married (!) so going back to Sabrina can only lead to repeating the same problems.

If you were an optimist like me you would foolishly think everything would get sorted out without problems. That just leads to problems. I have twice had working girls get really upset / depressed that I was married. Despite my advanced age.

Thanks again for posting on this difficult issue

Jimmy Boy - maybe it is wise for EG not to foster the illusion that a girl is not a working girl?. I have often reminded girls very bluntly of the business relationship in order to try to break down any undue closeness. Unfortunately it does not work. I suspect Sabrina has her own internal drivers which lead her to behave as she did - rational reasons are often irrelevant. usually it is more a question of their emotional history.

Optimist,

I knew my next post in this thread wasn't going to be a field report, thanks for your appreciation, normally I'm not optimist at all and try to stay down-to-earth, often even too much!

JimmyBoy,

That's the most likely explaination. In those nearly 3 hours she actually went to room once or twice, she spent nearly one hour couching with the 140kgs guy and she sat a good 45mins in the garden with other 2-3 girls and 2-3 50+old guys, always totally ignoring me, at times compassionated by her colleagues, directly and among them. Maybe she meant to show me that she could stay as long as she liked with customers. About "enjoying the moment a little longer", we were at about 45 mins, we overenjoyed the time we were allowed with a wide overtime, I just wanted to avoid trouble to me (90 euros more) and to her, fearing she would be told off for excessive allowance and unfair competition towards other girls. Her reassurances were so insisted and so "sure" that probably I just missed a good gift, but, again, if we had stayed longer (or met later) we would have ended up talking about our children, since we were already on bloody topics (to be honest quite welcome and participated by me, actually it must even have been me giving the start) like "why you stayed so little, when are you coming back, when are you on holiday next" and similar, don't make me go deeper in this. The superquick show by reception drew some attention, the very most of spectators probably didn't even had the time to understand what was the problem, but obviously tones, attitudes and facial expressions spoke for themselves, not to mention how she dumped me by there.

Myrrh is right in his points and in his "mile running", in being grateful to these providers who make us feel that good, also Dreams had underlined the advantages of these clubs, and probably synthesized better a good part of my previous report. About sausages, I would say that there must be a minimum of minding about what they are attached to. Also we, as mongers, mind what is around the pussy. Both cathegories represent professionists. I may be a dreaming child, but I'll never believe that the 140kgs guy got my same treatment in the same way. Words can lie, eyes can lie, but she genuinely got wetter and wetter until releasing with me, inspite of the tens of sausages she cooks weekly, she must have felt something, maybe she's not that worn out yet. I reckon that pussy and dick can't lie, my willy wouldn't care nor want any other girl in the hours she ignored me, only when she came back to me He felt ready to bang another one.

Tjohoo, you remember these words: "Never ever hunt after girls in clubs, just go with the flow", I wanted to post in Bochum partytreff thread my visit, but I'm absorbed by this one. I've read this great sentence of yours. It seems to me that you want to "defend","believe" and "justify" her, you are right that we are all humans, but we don't know if and how sincere she was, and "unfortunately" it wouldn't make any difference. As Optimist understood, anyway we wouldn't end up getting married, so maybe we are keeping pointlessly alive this soap-opera, which might even be an inflated misunderstanding, a stupid illusion, a missed fishing, an exaggerated imagination's fruit, etc.

Suggestion: why one of you, or any lurker, doesn't go there and session with her and REPORT. By now she'll have handled a good hundred of sausages, at the moment of writing she might be swallowing a 80 years old customer load or being creampied by a 200kgs guy. After all, here there is being a great advertisement, go and tell her how you found about her, show her the reports as I did with the other forum, she doesn't know my nickname but I'm quite sure that not only her, but also other girls will remember that afternoon and that melodrama.

Inspite of the hundreds of sausages, raw or not.

Looking forward to reading your FIELD REPORTS, I obviously read willingly any.

EG

Apologies. My last post was wrecked by the automatic grammar (mis) correction tool of this forum.

EG. Maybe I'll try Sabrina next time as you suggest

In terms of what I've gleaned (from the 25% increase to the thread volume in the last few days alone) :

[U]Lesson 1[/U]

You cannot rely on past reports with respect to the optical quality of the women at these AO clubs in NRW and elsewhere. YMMV (Your mileage may vary). So one man's tender loins may well be another man's mutton rough cuts.

Also, the girls tend to come and go with new girls joining frequently and leaving just as quickly. Some may move between clubs and back again even in the same week. Trends in better looking women residing at one club can quickly go into reverse.

So it may be best to do what Dreams suggest and choose some clubs that are relatively close to each other so that you can cut and run if there is a bad lineup at a particular club on a given day. Rather than find that you are stuck with a bad lot because the nearest other venue is half a day's commuting time away. Don't end up ruining your day.

[U]Lesson 2[/U]

Surprisingly there may be some (fake) GFE to be had in these bargain basement 'spunk and go' places even though these girls are supposed to be the lowest of the low, bottom feeders in the food chain, who have little choice other than to allow their bodies to be inseminated for 2 to 3 ten euro notes a time.

The GFE works for the girls as well as the guys. These girls lead incredibly boring lives been cooped up inside the gloomy four walls all day. A spot of melodrama breaks up the monotony.

Also the more tricks these girls turn then the more money they make. Ergo, if they can get repeat business from the same guy then it is worth angling for and probably a little less soul destroying than watching a continually revolving door of point and squirt cum dumpsters.

Women have to rely on emotional mind games because they can't control men physically. So make men feel guilty works. This doesn't change just because they have become ho's.

If they can keep guys dangling on the end of their dicks then that means they are free to go off and turn some bigger sausages on the griddle before returning. Using your dick like some sort of joystick, controlling you like a computer game.

The term 'Money no. 1' translates for ho's in any language.

You should work by your own mantra. Try,

'Fuck and Forget'

'You can never miss the girl, you will only lose your turn'.

Wasn't it Mike Tyson who once said 'I'll fuck you till you love me, bi@tch'? Well you are likely to run out of money long before that happens.

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1454152]she played me like a muppet[/QUOTE]Ha, ha. It was worth wading through all of the recent gumph just for that one comment alone.

[QUOTE=EastGoing; 1456543]Tjohoo.

It seems to me that you want to "defend","believe" and "justify" her, you are right that we are all humans, but we don't know if and how sincere she was, and "unfortunately" it wouldn't make any difference. As Optimist understood, anyway we wouldn't end up getting married, so maybe we are keeping pointlessly alive this soap-opera, which might even be an inflated misunderstanding, a stupid illusion, a missed fishing, an exaggerated imagination's fruit, etc.[/QUOTE]Hello East Going!

No I don't want to justify that type of behavior. But when we meet a teenager in a club we can't expect them to react, or act, in any other way then other teenagers do. So what I am trying to say to you is, don't read to much into her behavior and therefore don't judge her to hard.

It's easier said then done. I know!

T

Today I bothered to google translate the reports from the other forum (which I think I'm not allowed to mention) that I had shown her, yes, unbelievable and stupid, but I never did. Since none of the about 330 000 members of this board could go there and / or bother to report in these days, I genially decided to see what those posters were saying.

Well, apart from kissmarking intentions with a very little result and some nice talks about possible further meetings, the rest of the service I got seems not to be anything too personal, being available to other 2 punters (out of 2 posters) just on the day after our 2nd meeting, inspite of declarations like "I can refuse customers" or "I don't / didn't do this with others", which anyway, being an AO provider, doesn't exclude those many things. I copy and paste some highlights with a good or reasonable translation:

Punter 1 :

"This time she enjoyed it thoroughly, but wanted to turn away before she came. But since I had her legs nice to the touch and that she could not she let herself go completely and was shaking all over my body as she came. Then even more extensively missionary and doggy style. From behind, it holds great contrast and circling her pelvis, so that what was going on had to come deep inside her. And then, surprise, no clean quickly and cuddle from the shower but only once and relax. Has the go out of the room actually still thanks for the leak."

Punter 2:

"We have spoiled us as a couple in love with each other and had a very nice time. An important evaluation factor for me is always when there were "perceived" two hours. By Sabrina there were no announcements that now is the end, we still snuggled up nice after a great final and are just slowly back to reality";

"This little bunny has just unpacked everything on the sofa, knelt between my legs and blown, as there would be no tomorrow. The eye contact is great. You sink while she blows, literally in her jet-black eyes" then "The Second fairness bonus they receive for their honesty in advance. She said: In the room no fingers in the pussy and no anal. If that's ok, we go off if you do not agree, then you're free now, no problems."

Ok, we discussed and she showed me some "personal matters" of her, but at this point I wouldn't be surprised to know that other punters got personal contacts etc.

I apologize again for filling the thread with bullshit out of stupid behaviours of a childish 42 years old monger and a moody 19 years old AO provider. As already said, not only by me, this establishment provides great service, that added to being AO possible may cause misunderstandings or exaggerations in perceiving what you are given, especially when comparing to "normal" sessions, where you are not given that great service and you play covered. And bearing in mind that most of girlfriends and wives don't even get close to what we can get in these clubs, at least as far as I know from personal experience (apart from one) and discuss about with people I know, females included! For me, AO and DFK happened with girlfriends, not with providers (not because I'm too romantic but because of diseases fears and disgust towards probable sperm leftovers not mine).

There are a couple of guys in Artemis thread facing "doubts" like me, actually at more "advanced" stages, and the other posters are discouraging them from getting involved into troubles.

Tjohoo, whatever happens, the mistake is always of the man, to be blamed even more for falling (or risking to) after a teenie, in my case an AO at less than 1 euro / minute provider.

Myrrh, you can't imagine how much I appreciate (and share) what you express in your posts, and not just your recent ones about the ongoing soap opera built on clouds. You greatly point out facts, plain real bare truth, maybe with some cynicism, but always undisputable right things, concepts and facts. Normally I'm like you, I share and at times even preach all you say, but sometimes one gets involved (and / or fooled) by some inexplicable stupid pointless things and gets lost inspite of evidence or evident impossibility to get or change or get along with certain hopeless irresolvable matters.

In the specific case, what was out of place was the quality, not the service, of the girls. Those prices and services might make sense with the unfuckable, some really utterly unfuckable, providers I saw in VV. Angelique's chicks cost more, but are much better than VV. But those I saw, and especially those I sessioned with, in Arabella, are there inexplicably, they could absolutely stand in a "normal" FKK, even a high level one, especially my bloody "honey".

As I said in my first post, I couldn't believe my eyes when I wandered around, I was expecting the same or less than VV, instead I was in trouble in choosing! Ok, no real stunners but worth much much more than what is charged. They are not at all "the lowest of the low", nor "the bottom of the food chain", I've seen muuuuch worse in my career. I don't know if and what lays behind them, which desperation, drug addiction, blackmails, diseases, extortions, but those girls shouldn't even walk by there! The mentioned Gaby has a husband and a small child! She's reasonably pretty and surely fuckable, why she does AO, and for that price? Sabrina asked me if I knew that AO is a dangerous practice, I was astonished! I asked why she did it if she knew that, she answered she's alone and she can do what she wants, she just doesn't care! A fucking great beautiful superb 19 years old smart intelligent girl capable of speaking well (mine pratically perfectly) at least 3 other languages (read in the other forum) on top of her own!

Guys, by now I must have lost some reputation and credibility, but believe me, I'm very picky, which is why I pay. I'd never be happy with an average or less than average girl, unless circumstances really force me. In VV I couldn't fuck Alice, a tall slim girl with an ok (if not pretty) face, because of her falling drained boobs, I could have fucked her from behind not to see them, but still I didn't feel like, that's why I normally get much more oral sex than intercourses. I saw some 15 girls in Arabella, chose 4 among the best looking ones but could have still chosen others, and not among the "less worse" as I did in VV.

I'm trying to add the pics of Carmen to my post, if I succeed, given my impairment with computer stuff, I'll be proud! I got them from that other forum with reports of VV, where she obviously worked before, like Sabrina and probably other ones, therefore justifying the changes of likings in reports. In the same way, pics of last year show that many girls from Arabella moved to VV, like Bianca.

If you can see the pics, be informed that Carmen was the less fuckable of the 4, and not by little, and that she was at level with other ones.

[QUOTE=Optimist;1456463]Jimmy Boy - maybe it is wise for EG not to foster the illusion that a girl is not a working girl?. I have often reminded girls very bluntly of the business relationship in order to try to break down any undue closeness. Unfortunately it does not work. I suspect Sabrina has her own internal drivers which lead her to behave as she did - rational reasons are often irrelevant. usually it is more a question of their emotional history.[/QUOTE]I don't disagree, as I almost always tell the girl, smilingly, especially the first time I am with her, that it's just business, usually in the context of me telling her not to do fake moans as that will not make me come any faster but rather have the opposite effect. It was, perhaps, though an inopportune time, place, and manner for EastGoing to do it.

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1457042]Today I bothered to google translate the reports from the other forum (which I think I'm not allowed to mention) that I had shown her, yes, unbelievable and stupid, but I never did. Since none of the about 330 000 members of this board could go there and / or bother to report in these days, I genially decided to see what those posters were saying.[/QUOTE]Well there may well have been several recent reports which you may not have come across because reports about Arabella are spread across many different sub-forums.

There are several reports in:

'Bareback AO (Alles Ohne). Flat Rate Clubs, Parties and Events' in 'Germany. AO Clubs'

'Bochum' in 'Germany' thread (because Arabella happens to be in Bochum)

Also of course reports in this thread, 'Fkk Arabella / Villa Venus / Sauna Grimberg. NRW AO Clubs' in 'Germany-FKK clubs'

Then of course there is:

'Red-Carpet Clubs' in 'Germany-FKK' clubs (because Arabella is a member of that unique small group of clubs that are known as red carpet clubs as the clubs essentially have red carpets inside (doh!). Although there some other aspects like these clubs are considered to provide 'traditional' standards of service).

[B][Jackson: Just one more type of club to add to your growing list which already includes partytreff, FKK, sauna, pauschal, brothel, etc. ][/B]

And probably some reports in 'other FKK clubs' in 'Germany-FKK clubs' because Arabella is an FKK club which does not have it's own individual thread like many other FKK's.

I know, it's a mess! And I despair.

BTW, here's a link to my own report of about a year ago which I stuck in the 'Bareback-AO- (Alles-Ohne). Flat-Rate-Clubs-Parties-and-Events'

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?3215-Bareback-AO-(Alles-Ohne).Flat-Rate-Clubs-Parties-and-Events&p=1334787&viewfull=1#post1334787[/url]

[QUOTE=Myrrh;1457251][B][Jackson: Just one more type of club to add to your growing list which already includes partytreff, FKK, sauna, pauschal, brothel, etc. ][/B][/QUOTE]No! Red carpet clubs are just regular FKK clubs. Some with BB openly advertised, others without. No need for another useless category.

HB

Hello, EG! I just had gotten around to finally read the reports about your last trip. Keep up the good work!

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1457042]Today I bothered to google translate the reports from the other forum (which I think I'm not allowed to mention)[/QUOTE]I received a message from Jackson on this matter a while back: You are not allowed to post links to other fora or blogs which are in ENGLISH! If it's in another language, which your use of Google translate suggests, then it's no problem.

[QUOTE=SwingerLover; 1458117]Hello, EG! I just had gotten around to finally read the reports about your last trip. Keep up the good work!

I received a message from Jackson on this matter a while back: You are not allowed to post links to other fora or blogs which are in ENGLISH! If it's in another language, which your use of Google translate suggests, then it's no problem.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the patience and for the appreciation, to you and to the other fellas. Next month I'm planning to go back in NRW, the culprit always returns to the crime scene!

The forum was [url]www.freiercafe.com[/url] (or de?). Thanks for explaining about Jackson's answer. I recently had asked in Oase thread to HB about posting other forums names because he had mentioned a few, he had answered with "IMHO" when saying that foreign forums can be mentioned. The site couldn't afford to lose other top members after Angus Magee!

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1458324]The site couldn't afford to lose other top members after Angus Magee![/QUOTE]The problem with Angus was that his site IS in english!

[QUOTE=SwingerLover;1458470]The problem with Angus was that his site IS in english![/QUOTE]I know. The joke was that the the forum simply couldn't afford to lose another top member, regardless of the reason. And that was supposed to be me (not HB or you or others). :-)

It is different each my visit. Now they retorned to their old scheme and you have to choose upfront:

1 session = 60€

2 sessions = 90€

3 sessions = 110€

If you pay 90€ for two sessions third session will cost 60€.

BTW lineup was worse than my last visit in June. Did two sessions and left. First room with very new Bulgarian girl. Absolutely no neither German nor English. Most of Bulgarian girls understand basic words in Russian, so I can communicate. This one didn't even try to understand. But very nice young body. Zero skills in the room, so I used her as a inflatable doll. Second session with Bianca as good as usually.

[QUOTE=Jymondor;1458672]BTW lineup was worse than my last visit in June. Did two sessions and left. First room with very new Bulgarian girl. Absolutely no neither German nor English. Most of Bulgarian girls understand basic words in Russian, so I can communicate. This one didn't even try to understand. But very nice young body. Zero skills in the room, so I used her as a inflatable doll. Second session with Bianca as good as usually.[/QUOTE]Which club. VV, Arabella or Grimberg?

I am guessing VV?

[QUOTE=Myrrh; 1458676]Which club. VV, Arabella or Grimberg?

I am guessing VV?[/QUOTE]Sorry. Villa Venus of course.

[QUOTE=Myrrh;1458676]Which club. VV, Arabella or Grimberg?[/QUOTE]Maybe it's time to get seperate threads on those 3 clubs in the AO-Clubs forum, in order to avoid further mix-ups?

[U][B]Friday 16 August, Villa Venus[/B][/U]

[U]Flight / Accommodation[/U]

After flying into Dusseldorf airport I made sure to check into my hotel rather than follow my dick and head straight to Villa Venus (learning from a previous trip where I had come back from a partytreff event at 9pm only to find the reception desk closed and I had to spend the night sleeping in an armchair in the reception area).

I had used some BA air miles and so the flight in only cost me 17 gbp (this was the payment for the airline tax). I also used some points from a large 4 star hotel chain (Park Inn) and stayed at their hotel in Dusseldorf Reisholz for free. So a pretty low cost start to my trip.

Unfortunately by the time I had travelled out to this hotel which was a bit off from the centre of Dusseldorf by train / bus from the airport, checked in, messed around in the hotel and then travelled to VIlla Venus it was around 6pm in the evening.

[U]Getting to Villa Venus[/U]

Now from reading previous reports I had always believed that this place was in Duisburg and therefore that Duisburg was the closest train station. Not so as the nearest train station was in fact Oberhausen. So you had to go from Dusseldorf, through Duisburg and then on to Oberhausen train station.

I couldn't work out if there was a tram that went anywhere near the club so I thought that I had no alternative but to take a taxi from Oberhausen station to the club which cost 12 euros.

[U]Villa Venus is really a car spare parts shopping outlet? [/U]

There was slight cause for concern when the taxi driver dropped me off at the address:

Konrad-adenauer-ring 17, Neumuhl, Duisburg.

It was a place called something like getränke arena.

[url]http://getraenkearena.de/index.php/10230.html[/url]

And it looked like it was a supermarket specializing in selling car spare parts. It was only when I was halfway up to the entrance that I did a double take and ran back to the taxi driver in near panic as I saw someone coming out of the place with a shopping trolley overloaded with what I believe was car exhausts and other bits. The taxi driver insisted it was the right place and pointed to the number 17 clearly painted on the wall of the building. I got the driver to wait, as I didn't want to be stranded with no way of calling another taxi, whilst I asked somebody in the supermarket if the taxi driver had got the address wrong.

When I mentioned the name Villa Venus a woman shop assistant rolled her eyes and gave a knowing look to her colleague. It turned out that Villa Venus was next door but shared the exact same street address as this getränke arena place. WTF?

[Actually when I looked up this getränke place on the internet it was actually a beverages wholesaler. It just [B]looked[/B] Like a car spare parts supermarket from the outside]

[U]Villa Venus entrance[/U]

There was no sign saying Villa Venus but when I say these iron gates and some sort of small legal sign saying something like this was a private club, etc. Then I knew that I had come to the right place.

After pressing the bell I was buzzed through the gates and then a naked girl came to the door and waved me in. She took me as far as the reception desk and then disappeared. The receptionist or 'theke' as she was referred to was a fully dressed woman in her late 20's and spoke next to no English. She just pointed to a sign on the reception desk which said something in German like 30 euros entry and 30 euros per girl.

She became a little anxious as she thought that I had misunderstood the situation and thought that I could only pay 30 euros entry and no more whereas you had to pre-pay for at least one girl. But when I produced 60 euros she relaxed and gave me the wrist band with my locker key and a little slip of paper to put inside the little holder on the wristband to record which girls I took during the visit.

[U]Villa Venus layout[/U]

It is a medium sized club. Large enough thoughfor someone to hang out in for a few hours without feeling too bored or claustrophobic.

As you come in there are some steps leading upstairs where the bed rooms are and some steps leading downstairs to the wet area / locker room.

The locker room was spacious. With about 50 full sized lockers. The shower room was a decent size with 3 power shower heads plus another shower head for just cold water. The laundry room with dryer continually turning towels was also further along down here. You got given your two towels at reception and picked up your plastic flip flops from the shelves downstairs. I think there might have been a sauna down there as well but of course no one comes for the sauna at these places do they?

Upstairs there was the reception desk / bar which had the photos of most of the girls who were working that day along with their names and description written on them of what they did. They also had some safety deposit boxes for leaving your money in rather than the lockers.

This reception desk / bar was in the lounge area and there were several couches large enough to seat two or three persons arranged 'cinema style' facing towards the reception desk. There were low arches either side of the lounge area with a few more settees inside two smaller side areas as well.

The lounge area was quite spacious and there was one TV screen playing run-of-the-mill porn. Leading off from the lounge area was one gent's toilet room with one toilet inside. Then there was a small room with tables laid restaurant style which I am guessing given the nature of the place is never ever used.

There was also an outside back yard with a handful of sun loungers and a swing which could seat two people side by side.

[U]Smoking ban? What smoking ban? [/U]

You would never have realised that there was a smoking ban given the number of girls who frequently smoked inside the lounge right the way through the day even though there was an outside area where they could do this.

[U]The food and drink[/U]

Apart from some biscuits in a tray next to a machine which dispensed colas / sprite / water there was absolutely nothing to eat or drink in the club.

[U]The girls. [/U]

There were about 10-12 girls on duty with about 8 photos on display. Most of the photos had the same description in German. Something like 'I do everything, except anal'. But there were three which said something like I do everything. Surprise, surprise two of these girls who said that they did everything were the ugliest and fattest women in the club, LOL.

The girls were all naked except that they all wore a chain around their hips. This is sort of sexy but when you realise that all of the girls are wearing it then it becomes more like some sort of 'uniform'.

Of the 12 about half were significantly overweight with unattractive faces. I have listed below the names of only those who were plain to reasonably attractive with fairly in shape bodies as I am sure no one would be really interested in the others.

[B]Magda[/B]

A plain looking girl with a longish nose and long hair. Body was slim and reasonably nicely proportioned however certainly not a knockout.

[B]Maya[/B]

A plain ordinary girl with a beakish nose and similar body type to Magda.

[B]Dana[/B]

A small girl with a waif like body which I found arousing but was spoiled by her droopy tits. In fact most of these girls had droopy tits as if the life had been sucked out of them. Probably a reflection of the fact that they went around all day without a bra on. Dana's face was kind of cute looking except it had the look of someone who has had a hard life and her eyes were constantly restless and nervous. She chain smoked incessantly.

[B]Bianca[/B]

This girl has been mentioned once or twice on this board. I saw her photo and mistook her for Dana as they both had a similar body type. Small girls and what you would call spinners. A girl so small that you could easily spin her around on your cock during sex if she was riding you cowgirl. She also had a fairly cute looking face and was probably in her early 20's unlike most of the other girls who were probably in mid to late twenties.

[B]Aida[/B]

A tall Bulgarian woman in her late 20's with dyed blond hair. She was the only girl who did 'everything' but who also happened to be reasonably attractive. However she had the body more like a tennis player, fairly well built, rather than a sexy body.

[B]Jenny[/B]

Perhaps the best looking girl there. She was on the small size but had a pretty, cute face and had her hair up in an interesting hair style with blonde / brown tints. Rather than the rest of the girls who tended to have the simple long, black hair down to their backs style. She also had some tattoos above her breast and on her stomach which made her look a little sluttish. She was similar age to Bianca.

[U]The look of love[/U]

As the seating was arranged cinema style and I was sat at the back of the lounge I was looking at the backs of the girl's heads most of the time as they sat on their couches. Some of them would occasionally turn round, catch my eye over the back of their chairs and then fix me with a longing, searching look as if they had seen something really interesting that they desperately wanted. It was a very rehearsed behaviour but still a little flattering to have women staring at you as you don't get this in normal life, even if not all of these women were attractive.

[U]The mating call[/U]

It seemed that the girls had been instructed to follow some specific rules of engagement. Apart from looking at them there is no hassling of the guys and you don't sit next to a guy unless you were clearly invited. Similarly if a guy comes and sits next to you on your couch then it is 'game on'. You can assume that the deal is effectively done. There seemed to be some sort of unwritten rule that a guy does not sit next to a girl unless he wants to go all the way.

So I witnessed that as soon as guys sat down next to a girl the girl would start caressing him, hugging him and then making out like they were teenagers in the back row of a cinema, sloppy kissing and exploring the inside of his mouth with their tongues. Then occasionally a girl's head would go down and because of the poor arrangement of the seating, if you were sat at the back of the lounge like me, then all you could see were the girl's heads bobbing up and down for a few minutes in the guy's lap.

Then after no more than 5 minutes the girl's heads would come up, they would make a gesture to the guy and the guy and girl would head to the room.

[U]The cut above[/U]

There were a couple of girls who seemingly thought that they were a cut above the rest of the girls and did not spend their time tamely sitting on their couch actively look around trying to catch the eye of a guy. Not surprisingly these were the two cuter and younger girls mentioned.

[B]Bianca[/B] : Never sat in the main part of the lounge but would be often seen flitting back and forth between what seemed to be regular customers in one of the smaller side areas of the lounge. She also seemed to have her mobile phone perpetually displayed in her hand whilst he laughed and joked around with two or three customers. This kind of put me off her and I was more interested in Jenny.

[B]Jenny[/B] : Sat in one of the couches towards the side of the lounge near the entrance and did not seem to be actively looking for customers either.

However despite this these two girls would regularly get taken to the rooms by the customers.

I was interested in taking Jenny but decided to study her 'form' first before making a decision. I noticed one guy who approached her and she sort of gave a gesture of 'why not' rather than looking pleased that she had been chosen like the other girls did. Whilst the other girls would be all over their guy like a wet blanket, Jenny would just be meekly patting the shoulders of her customer. She would allow the guy to try and kiss her but would keep her mouth closed so no tongues. She never moved in too close either. Then she suddenly realised that I was looking at her from the far side of the room and started looking at me for some of the time, and to see if anyone else was watching her, rather than the guy she was with. I decided there and then that she probably would not provide a particularly enthusiastic experience in the room.

[B][Next up, I come to a decision as to which of these girls (if any) to session with][/B]

[U]Visit to Villa Venus, Part 2 - My session at Villa Venus[/U]

Whilst I was still deciding on a girl who would be suitable I got talking to a Turkish guy who had already had three sessions and was winding down before going home. I pointed out Bianca and Dana as two of the girls whose body type appealed to me and he scoffed saying that they 'should go eat'. It turned out that we were the polar opposite in terms of what we wanted. So that is probably the reason why these overweight girls survive in these clubs as there is a significant Turkish clientele who like girls with a bit of meat on their bones.

Apart from Dana I wasn't sure which other girl I would take so I went outside to sit in the back yard.

Some of the girls later came out and whilst they were outside they religiously wore towels round them even though it was warm outside and no one could see them from the road.

Maya and Dana were sitting on the two person swing and Maya joked to me that Dana wanted to see what I had under my towel whilst I was reclining on a sun lounger nearby. It turned out that Maya could speak quite good English. All the girls then went back inside at this point but Maya hung back and then patted the area on the swing next to her and asked me to join her.

She was plain looking with a bit of a beakish nose but I thought it would be nice to have a conversation in English rather than just using hand gestures and pidgeon English to try and get myself understood as I had been doing all day.

What I didn't realise was that the 'if you sit at my couch means you have effectively said yes' rule applied outside as well as inside the club building because Maya's hands immediately went under my towel and began to murmur approvingly when she saw that I was getting aroused. My arousal was due more to the fact that I had not seen any action all day (and in the days before coming to Germany) more than anything else. However as this action was happening outdoors made it more of a turn on for me.

Quick as a flash Maya dropped to her knees and started giving me a blow job. Then she stuck her tongue out and rolled my dick back and forth teasingly against it whilst staring into my eyes. It was still broad daylight and so I could see everything. I was now rock hard. Seeing this she immediately broke off the blow job and insisted we went to the room.

I mentioned that I was interested in Dana and she quickly suggested why not have two girls which was something which had crossed my mind also. I said that she should get Dana whilst I waited outside. Basically this was a ploy because I wanted to continue the outdoor action but this time with two girls. However Maya was insistent that I followed her. We found Dana just inside the door and started to head for the room but at this point my towel slipped off revealing that my dick still in pole position. I hastily tried to cover myself but the girls laughed and said not to worry.

Inside the room I suggested that the blow jobs continued and I wanted both girls to go down on me at once. Dana took care of the business end whilst Maya headed down to my balls. I raised my hips as Maya went down further but unfortunately no rimming was going to happen as Maya switched to using her finger down there when she saw me raise my bum.

The girls came up for air and Maya decided to move in for a kiss. Too late I remembered that I could see that she had severely blackened teeth when we were sitting outside no doubt due to excessive smoking. In fact it was like a fire had taken hold in her mouth and they had found her charred teeth to use for identification purposes.

I managed to keep my mouth closed but then Dana came up to follow suit and I knew worse was to come as I had watched her chain smoking throughout the two to three hours that I was in the club. Well it was like kissing an ashtray and the smell of stale tobacco wafted down my throat.

Now it was time for the ficken. I wanted to start with Maya and then finish off with Dana. As Dana was a little spinner I envisaged that she would be the tighter of the two. However Maya had other ideas and said no, I should fuck Dana first. WTF. But I didn't want to waste time arguing. Dana got up to get on top of me but before she pushed me inside she spat on her hand and rubbed it on her pussy. Nasty! Now I love a girl who uses some natural lubrication rather than the man-made gels to get herself in the mood.

But then she spat in her hands and rubbed herself again and again, around seven or eight times in total. This sent a different message, that she was really dry down there and the thought of fucking me wasn't exactly turning her on? Not finished with that she then turned her attentions to my dick and now spat on that several times. In the end I was relieved when she finally decided that she was ready.

Despite all that she was unbelievably tight but after a while I got used to the firm grip. Soon I was enjoying the sight of a waif like girl riding on the end of my bare knob. I had managed to stay away from wanking for a week and it was my first bareback sex for weeks so not surprisingly I was on the verge of coming after less than 5 minutes of fucking. I waited until I had creamed pretty much all of the inside of her pussy before letting out a sound to show that I had cum.

Dana seemed surprised that I had come so quickly then started questioning whether I had really come or was just pretending to. I suppose she would find out when she went to wash her tight pussy in the bathroom.

Then Maya said 'you can't have come yet, I want you to fuck me' and put on her face as if she was really disappointed that she would not be getting a good seeing to herself now. Yeah right!

The girls then said that I should go douche. After a quick shower I went outside and saw that Dana and Maya were sitting outside and were chatting to a couple of other girls. When I walked out they sort of looked over their shoulder and gave each other little girly giggles. They were probably discussing my flash in the pan performance.

I decided to settle into a sun lounger to rest a bit when I saw that a customer had motioned to Dana and she was now scurrying to her feet to run after him. She probably hadn't had time to even shower and so was therefore joining this guy whilst she still had my warm congealing spunk inside her. Enjoy!

[U]Verdict[/U]

Would I be back? Most likely not.

The structure, size and layout of the club is fine. Also the pricing of 30 euros per entry and for each girl is the best prices you can get for a club of this type. However the place is about a 12 euro cab ride from the nearest station and that adds another 25 euros on to the total cost.

At least half of the dozen girls were complete and total write offs looks wise. No question about that and that is too high a ratio when you consider that of the remaining 6 only 2 or 3 are going to be reasonably attractive with the other 3 plain looking. Those more attractive girls are inevitably going to be in high demand given they are in the minority and most likely will develop attitude problems when they find that they are in much greater demand than their uglier sisters.

If you are looking for girls who are both good looking and have a reasonably good attitude then there won't be much choice.

Some say that trends change and that the good looking girls will switch back and forth between clubs over time as many of these clubs have similar management. However if I find that half the girls in a club are unacceptable on one visit then I am not taking that chance that it will be different when I turn up next time.

At least for now Villa Venus is the sort of place where you are more likely to find girls who look like Venus (Williams) the tennis player rather than finding your Venus the goddess of love.

[QUOTE=EastGoing; 1456543]Optimist,

Suggestion: why one of you, or any lurker, doesn't go there and session with her and REPORT. By now she'll have handled a good hundred of sausages, at the moment of writing she might be swallowing a 80 years old customer load or being creampied by a 200kgs guy. After all, here there is being a great advertisement, go and tell her how you found about her, show her the reports as I did with the other forum, she doesn't know my nickname but I'm quite sure that not only her, but also other girls will remember that afternoon and that melodrama.

EG[/QUOTE]Before I start I would like to state that I never get within 10 feet of any drama of any kind.

That being said, I dropped by Arabella today as a result of a recommendation. The first thing that occurred to me was how cramped the place felt. It's no smaller than the other clubs I've been to, but still felt a little smaller. No good explanation for it. Just a feeling. The Thekefrau spoke basic English, and had a girl show me around the place; none other than Sabrina. I remembered her name from the forum.

After a change and a shower, I walked the couch-area for all of 90 seconds and had by then seen everyone and everything. Not wanting to head straight for a room, I got myself a drink (sodas and coffee available) and sat in the outside area for a bit. Had a brief chat with a German gentleman who volunteered that "the girl with the short hair gives good service", referring to Sabrina.

What's a poor guy to do, other than what he's told? After a short wait, I went to Sabrina and sat next to her. Her English is passable and we could lead a simple conversation without difficulty. After asking for permission she took the liberty of checking the size of my gentleman's sausage and seemed pleased by what she found. She confessed to being worried about me being to big. Not certain how to take that, but I guess my needle has served me well so far. We chatted a bit more before she gave me a BBBJ on the couch (which was good) and then asked me to go to a room. Session in the room was good. Nothing spectacular or earthshaking. She has a gorgeous body, just my taste, and a nice and playful personality. The only thing missing was a bit more of a spark, but that might well be on me as I wasn't really "feeling it" to begin with.

Afterwards I stuck around for a brief while, but decided that I'd rather leave and come back some time when I'm more in the mood. Would I session again with Sabrina? Certainly. Did my experience match EG's? Certainly not.

[u][b]fkk verena – saturday 17th august 2013[/b][/u]

i have posted this report under this thread because verena is an ao club in or near nrw and there is no other logical place to post it. for example it is not a flat rate ao gangbang and party club and posting it in the regular fkk section would mean it would be out of place as verena is a dedicated ao club and most fkk's are not.

[u]where to go? [/u]

on day two of my three day weekend trip i had made a preliminary choice between visiting grimberg sauna in gelsenkirchen or fkk verena. i had ruled out clubs la luna and angelique on cost. these last two clubs charged something like €30 to get in, €50 for a session and €30 more if you wanted ao. whereas red carpet clubs like grimberg and arabella were charging just €30 for a session and that included ao and anything else that the girl wanted to throw in for no extra charge whatsoever. so you could get 2 ao girls for the price that la luna or angelique were charging for 1 and still have €20 spare.

i eventually ruled out grimberg because from the map it did not seem to be anywhere near a train station. whereas fkk verena seemed 5 minutes walk from a u-bahn station. additionally not much was known about fkk verena so i was keen to find out about this place. it was supposed to be a 'new' club but was really an old club, fkk belami, which had been given a new name.

i decided that it was worthwhile investigating if only for reporting purposes.

[u]getting to fkk verena[/u]

fkk verena was in dortmund which was less than half an hour and a direct connection by train from where i was staying in bochum.

when i got to dortmund train station i switched to the u-bahn (number 45 for one stop and then 44) to get to the nearest stop (dortmund marten-sud) which was 5-10 minutes walk from the club.

kressenweg 6, 44379, dortmund.

[u]fkk verena entrance[/u]

fkk verena was surrounded by warehouses but when i got close i could hear loud romanian music coming from the building so i knew that i had reached the right place. the gates had a bell with the words 'belamie' on it so they hadn't bothered to change the old name.

i was buzzed through the gates when i rang the bell and as soon as i entered the club i knew that i had made a mistake. the place was shabby, cheap and old. then i peered past the reception desk to get my first glimpses of the girls and the 6 or so that i viewed looked really dumpy, unglamorous and downright unattractive.

the lady at reception could speak no english but just pointed to a sign on the desk which said.

1x50.

2x90.

3x120.

[u]i should have done a 180[/u]

my brain said that i should just make my excuses and leave (do a 180 degree turn and walk back out) because if i had glimpsed 6 or 7 girls and none of them were attractive then this was probably representative of the rest of the girls in the club.

but then my heart said that i had travelled all this way and it would be a shame to have come all this way and then not go in. there might be one or two attractive girls inside and that was all that i would need to have a satisfactory eveing. plus what is the point of being a member of a forum if you are not prepared to make sacrifices even if means that you have to occasionally 'take one for the team'.

there was no question that the 1x50 option was the only option of the three under the circumstances.

[u]the layout[/u]

having paid and collected my locker key and towels i walked through to the locker room area which was on the same ground floor. this allowed me to scan the whole of the lounge to confirm that all of the girls that i could see were ugly and unattractive.

the changing area was a bit shabby and there were the usual plastic flip flops and full sized lockers. there were only about 20-30 lockers so this was not a very popular club. the shower area also looked a bit grimy.

[u]the girls[/u]

i then walked into the lounge area where all of the girls were seated naked (except for chains around their hips) on tatty couches arranged against the walls. i dragged my feet as i trudged despondently past the gauntlet of ugly women and found a spare couch near the end.

i looked up to see this woman staring at me expectantly and when she smiled i could see that she had a tooth missing.

i looked at each woman carefully and it was amazing to see that all of them almost without exception had potbellies plus droopy tits. it would take the will power of an olympic super athlete to try and summon up any lust for this lot.

not a single one of them was attractive!

i decided that as i was here and to save me staring at these ugly women that i should do the tour of the place anyway.

at reception there were the 'biscuit tin' and the drinks dispenser giving cola / water / sprite plus the coffee machine. they had the photos of the girls at reception and most if not all of them did ao but not anal with perhaps 2 or 3 offering anal. one photo description just said something like i am 'nesselmung' which made no sense to me at all. but i was not interested anyway.

there was also an outside area which was quite a pleasant surprise. it was well kept with plants and flowers and comfortable chairs to relax in and even an outside shower. i was tempted to stay out there but eventually decided to go back and face the ugly women.

[u]the website[/u]

[url]http://www.fkk-verena.com/[/url]

the website has some photos of truly stunning women but it was obvious that these were not the women that would be found there and just glamour shots posted from elsewhere.

so that is a good rule of thumb. if a club does not show a single photo of a woman who is supposed to be there then avoid that place like the plague.

[u]i 'redeem' my 50 euros[/u]

back inside it struck me that if i walked away now then i would have paid 50 euros for nothing and that 50 euros included a service to be provided by one of the girls even if it was just a blow job.

i looked around long and hard and eventually i settled on this girl called dilara who had been clowning and goofing around and sometimes dancing in a wacky fashion to the romanian gypsy music which played continuously.

that is another sign as to how popular a club is. if club plays romanian type music all the time then it is a place that probably gets few customers and so the women have to entertain themselves with their own type of music. at villa venus and arabella western dance music was played.

this dilara woman looked a bit of an odd ball and had been joking around wearing these fake spectacles but i saw that she did not quite have the same pot belly like the other girls and face wise was a possibility.

i approached her on her couch and the other girls gave a roar of approval as i had been sitting and walking round the club for over an hour and a half without showing any of the women any interest.

[u]public action[/u]

up close i could see that dilara was just about doable but was definitely wacky. she continued to clown around to the other girls but now using me as one of her props pushing her tits roughly into my face whilst the other girls laughed and bouncing up and down on my lap. but then she bent over and started giving me a blow job which was a little titillating as it was done in public, or to be more accurate, in front of the 8-10 girls and the only 2 other customers who were there.

it turned out that dilara didn't mind having sex in public and pushed me inside her and started riding me cowgirl. i blocked out the faces that were taking all this in and concentrated on trying to cum but just as i started to cum she got off and so i didn't get all of my spunk inside her. but still at least this bit of action partly redeemed the day.

she thanked me and i could see why. during the two hours that i had been inside the club there were no more than 4 other customers and only two of them had taken any of the girls. so it was clear that many of these girls will hardly see any action all day. probably rightly so.

having used my 1x50 there was no reason to stay in the club and so i got dressed and left. but as i was leaving dilara stopped me and got me to wave at the girls because apparently our little show had provided them with little bit of light entertainment. something to break up the monotony of sitting in this dreary club with nothing to do or see and with hardly any customers coming through the doors.

[u]the verdict[/u]

it would be a silly question to ask whether i would go there again.

the name change of this club may have fooled some people in thinking that this is a 'new' club that ought to be tried. but having been there once i think there should not be any need for anyone else reading this to make the same mistake that i did.

Its more than a month I visit the forum for information for my first visit to the ao clubs in my vacation in August.

Here's my experience.

I will be brief because I do not speak English well and myrh has described very well how they are made local.

I stay in Dusseldorf.

All of these clubs are within easy reach by public transport.

I have sygic with Germany map and help me a lot.

All these girls do AO.

FKK Arabella.

Lohrheidestraße 63,44866 Bochum.Tram 302 from bochum hbf stop at Lohrheidestr and 4 min walk.

Stephanie

Face: 6. 5/10. She's cute blonde.

Body: 6. 5/10. Nice titties. Meaty type little potbelly165cm.

Age: 19 she said.

Skill: 7/10. She is very good at bbj.

Service: 6/10 dfk cowgirl doggy, missionary.

I can't come because she had bad breath.

Sabrina.

Face: 8/10 hot

Age: 20.

Body: 8.5/10 tall 175cm nice titties model type.

Skills: 7.5/10 good BBBJ and riding.

Service: 8/10 She was very friendly, dfk cowgirl doggy, standing doggy missionary.

Great session, after I come we still stay 10 min in the room chatting.

Nicole.

Face: 7/10 pretty cute.

Age: 26.

Body: 7/10 meaty type a little potbelly.

Skills: 7. 5/10 good BBBJ, deepthroat, she put 1 ball all inside the mouth and sucking.

Service: 7/10 dfk.

Nice session.

Saunaclub Villa Venus.

Konrad-Adenauer-Ring 17,

47167 Duisburg.

Tram 902 or 903 from duisburg hbf stop at Amsterdamer Str and 8 min by walk.

Here choose in advance how many girls you want, after if you want more session I don't know the price.

The price are 1 for 60, 2 for 90 and 3 for 110.

I pay 110 euro for 3 session.

Baher.

Turkish girl.

Face: 7.5/ 10. Pretty face.

Body: 7.5/ 10.175cm meaty type little potbelly nice titties.

Age: 23.

Skill: 7/10. Great tight pussy, nice riding

Service: 7/10. BBBJ dfk.

Nice session.

Magda.

Face 4/10 I don't know in the club she look don't bad. But in the room she look ugly to me.

Body 4/10 170cm skinny type droppy tits.

Estimated age late late twenties.

Skill 7/10 nice bbj.

Service 6/10 bad breath.

I manage to come in doggy style.

Bianca.

Face 7. 5/10 best looking girl here for me I think she a little look like pornstar Mia Manarote.

Body 7/10 165cm small titties nice ass.

Estimated age early twenties.

Skill: 7/10. Ordinary.

Service: 7/10. Good BBBJ.

Saunaclub M-Exclusiv.

Weseler Straße 104,

48249 Dülmen. Buldern.

[url]http://m-exclusiv.com/wordpress/[/url]

10 min walk from buldern station.

Prices: 1x45€; 2x75€; 3x90€; 4x99, 95€

I choose 4, I give 100 euro but she don't give me the 5 cent. But no problem.

You can see the girls in the site.

Aida.

Face: 7/10 pretty cute she has glasses and look real better in real

Body: 7/10 170cm skinny type small titties soft skin.

Estimated age: early twenties.

Skills: 7/10. Good BBBJ and riding.

Service: 8/10 she like dfk and we do a lot.

Great session. She is my first and my last session there.

Ruby.

Face: 7/10. She's cute.

Body: 6. 5/10. Droppy tits potbelly.

Estimated age: early twenties.

Skill: 7/10. Very ordinary.

Service: 6. 5/10 she don't want touch her lips. Everytime I try kiss her she stop my head with hands and give me only tongue.

Nice session in room with great mirror, she don't mind if you put finger in her ass when we doggy

Irina.

Face 6. 5/10 red hair cute.

Body: 6/10. Meaty type 165cm nice titties little potbelly.

Age: early twenties

Skill: 6/10. Very ordinary.

Service: 6/10 BBBJ, bad breath.

I don't come with her.

FKK Club Grimberg Sauna.

Grimbergstraße 12, 45889 Gelsenkirchen.

Tram 301 from gelsenkirchen hbf stop at ZOOM Erlebniswelt and 7 min by walk.

There is a zoo close by so you can see some people around, some group of guys see me walking inside the club, they point me smile and say "hey hey hey" LOL.

Price same at fkk arabella.

60 for entry and 1 girl. And 30 for the next.

Kati.

Face: 6. 5/10. She's cute, red hair some pimples.

Body: 7. 5/10. Awesome rack. 175cm

Age: early twenties.

Skill: 7/10 great bbj.

Service: 7/10. BBBJ dfk.

Nice session, she said has worked in many other clubs before, Goldentime Villavertigo Happygarden Samya.

She said this place is shit but in good day she do 20 rooms, in goldentime not more of 4 room in a day.

Lily.

Face: 7/10. She's cute short black hair.

Body: 75/10 small tits perfect ass for me, look like Mia Malkova or Jessi Rogers ass, amazing soft lips.

Age: 26.

Skill: 7/10.

Service: 8. 5/10.

She said is only half month she do this job and this is her first club, before she work in Romania doing massage and earn only 300 euro in month, now here.

She earn 300 in a day, but she don't like stay here.

Great session, I love her ass and her lips is the best lips I ever kiss.

The next day was my last day in Dussedorf and I have the flight in the afternoon so I decided to come back to see her one more time in the morning.

I arrived at 11 am and she just finished with another customer I ask her if we can stay 1 hr, she said it's ok but after 30 min she need to go down at reception and write on my bracelet.

In the end I stay 1h 30 min and we dfk like 30min, it was one best sex in my life.

In the reception I give 70 euro (50+20) and I expected back 10 euro but she give me back my 20 so in total I pay 60+50 for 1h30min.

In the afternoon I went home happy.

I visited last Saturday. A few girls missing: Bella, who seem not to work there anymore, Gaby and another couple of good ones whose names I don't know. I sessioned with Denisa and Sabrina, who was supposed to go home on holiday, don't know if and when she'll be back. Also, she has put on some 6-7 kgs, becoming less attractive. Both sessions were barely sufficient, a striking contrast with my last trip's experience. I enjoyed more the couch time than the sessions, anyway fair enough, but not what I was expecting. They were ok just for the "esteem", confidence and intimacy we had, no fireworks and nothing particularly valuable to report.
As to the soap opera, we discussed little about my previous visit, both having little interest in that and in carrying it on, especially by my side, if anything had ever really started.
Maybe it's true that first time enthusiasm makes one overevaluate things, which is also something that conferms the importance of my violated rule of not going back to the same girls.

[QUOTE=Myrrh; 1469738]Remind me not to breathe on you, Mr. Pearly gnashers.

I am guessing that these girls breaths did not smell too sweet after licking salty balls, snogging men with missing teeth and gargling mouthfuls of semen all day.[/QUOTE]Most of girls taste good when I DFK them, I only reported what I feel, better for you that never meet girls with bad breath.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njpyiz9v2ww[/url]

i was going through my private messages with the view to deleting some of them when i came across a pm from woofiee from 1 year ago. i had posted at the time that i was thinking of going to club la luna (the most famous and longest running bareback (ao) clubs of them all) and he wanted me to tell him how it went because he was thinking of driving 3 hours to get there. now my no. 1 rule is never to reveal the contents of pm's no matter what they contain but in woofiee's case you will see why i have made an exception.

[quote=woofiee]hey myrrh,

no worries. i saw the report. my apologies to you! geez. cured me of having to consider the place.

woofie.

[quote=myrrh]sorry woofiee,

i only saw this today so apologies for not replying earlier. i have now done a report on my visit so hopefully it will be helpful.

regards,

myrrh.

[quote=woofiee]hey myrrh.

saw you were going to laluna friday last. how it'd work out? i hear punters going to it, but some cancel, redirect, or don't report back. being laluna isn't around the corner, is it worth driving 3 hours to. woofiee[/quote][/quote][/quote]i thought when i re-read the pm that the name seemed familiar although back then it meant nothing to me. but it got me thinking. was this the same woofiee who had spent many weeks this year stalking the ao related threads goading, baiting and deliberately antagonising esteemed members like sir swingerlover, wanking and dreams for discussing ao on the forum? he gives the clear impression that he is an ardent opponent of bareback / ao, would never contemplate it and viewed those who did it with less than contempt. also he wanted the board to be segregated so that normal members would not encounter those members who liked and promoted ao activity.

if so then why was he asking me about driving 3 hours to a dedicated ao club. i am assuming that after his long drive that he would spend the rest of the day tamely sipping cokes or was the reason for his interest the 'bareback-as-much-as-you-like' all day long ao flat rate event that was happening there that day? now i don't like to character assassinate other members but i thought it was worthwhile looking through some of this 'holier than thou' character's past posts.

well, what did i find? first of all i had to wade through some posts that had been deleted by admin because woofiee several times had broken rules about antagonising other members.

[quote=woofiee; 1433413][blue][deleted by admin][/blue]

[b][u]editor's note[/u]:[/b] [blue]this report was redacted or deleted to remove sections of the report that were [u]largely argumentative[/u]. please read the forum faq and the forum's posting guidelines for more information. [i]thank you! [/i][/blue][/quote]then through many posts where he mercilessly taunted, ridiculed and insulted other members about their interest in bareback sex. he was so way above any of that kind of stuff, isn't he?

[quote=woofiee; 1458432]and you would be wrong (we all don't think alike, bub).

ao is off the menu, but i'm also not going to wrap up as soon as i enter the room. everything in its time. seen the results too often in this lifetime already. don't forget, i've been mongering in bangkok and pattaya since the 90s and seen a few mongers cum and go. it's all high-rises and hiv now, as another poster on isg perfectly said, and so that stay's fixed in my mind at all times.[/quote][quote=woofiee; 1432967]ah, the king of the ao gang makes his appearance. i was wondering when dreams would've brought in the artillery. and look, more personal attacks, more indignation, and a little bit of your personal history that no one really cares to know about. you are a small sample in a very large experiment, and if you don't think that simple size makes difference, then you really don't know what you're talking about.

i'm a bit older now and strangely enough, i actually laugh when i read personal crap like this. if you haven't noticed, i'm not trying to get you or your gang to understand the efficacy of protection. you folks are lost cause and besides it's not my place to tell people what they should do, contrary to what you folks are doing.[/quote][quote=woofiee; 1431431]you know, the only people here trying to stop anyone from writing this tend to be the ao gang. they've tried to get me banned and my posts removed.

i also said i disapprove of it, and while i can't tell others to do rubber-up, i think it's dangerous to promote unsafe sex here on isg.

i maintain that if the talk of ao bleeds into the fkk forums, as it has in the partytreff subgroup, it will become a problem.[/quote][quote=woofiee; 1429406]you've missed the point. what about the other 40 threads? how dead are they now that the ao gang practically rule the partytreff section? i'm only speaking for my own here (and the few other mongers i've met and asked this of) but i feel the community has suffered because of the prevalence of the ao talk. you read this section the threads about unsafe sex. hell, we're not stupid. we'll not bother commenting or even come back. i try to occasionally post into the sections that don't have this conversation but the traffic is useless. it's like the definition of partytreff is now ao.

if i get kicked off, no matter. i want to belong to a community who can help decide the direction the forums take. promoting ao sex is unwise and pollutes the environment we all play in. you say it's personal choice. i say there's no such thing as the "peeing" part of the pool. it all mixes together.

but what about other positions that also endanger the community? this all started about whether someone who passed on a disease should be discussed here, and then it spiraled into what do we as a community owe to each other? information? discussion? if this all about "enterainment" then i don't want to belong to this place. google me; i'm no stranger to adult boards, and i've had years of support on this and other boards in holland, the us and thailand. i go with the flow and enjoy the banter, but when people promote stupid things, behaviours what clearly endanger this game we all play, well sorry. i'm going to fight you for it.[/quote][quote=woofiee;1267041]it's a fair remark. i don't bother reading this section anymore because the tone is so different now. almost all reports are about ao, and everyone acts as if it's not dangerous. it's more than that. it's idiotic.[/quote]then i came across posts from him where it would seem that the same woofiee was actually an ardent lover of bareback and had several posts relating to his enthusiastic pursuance of bareback activity at some of the most infamous, hard-core bareback clubs that germany has to to offer like eva freundlin, ewa's club and club tabulos as well as many visits to thailand where he seemed to have enjoyed that sort of activity there too.

first of all a post where a year ago woofiee had been clicking on links for events in the ao bareback calendar thread which swingerlover spends much of his time putting together. the same swingerlover who was then a few months later heavily criticised by woofiee for promoting ao activity. i am assuming that woofiee was clicking on those links a year ago just to satisfy his curiosity and for no other reason whatsoever?

[quote=woofiee;1322730]chrome says malware was detected on this link[/quote]then many posts where his secret, or should i say not so secret, affection for ao activity at several hard-core ao clubs is revealed. including trips to thailand where he appears to enjoy bareback activity there as well.

[quote=woofiee;1102402]i'm heading out this weekend and i'm thinking of either harem, [b]tabulous [/b]or mettman. anyone interested in doing a wingman? friday night i can't get there before 18:30 (coming from amsterdam) but saturday has the whole day. or any other suggestions? [b]having an ao option is good[/b].[/quote][quote=woofiee;1102770]and [b]unless theres a tabulous party this weekend[/b], saturday is going to be partytreff mönchengladbach. if anyone from amsterdam or thereabouts wants to join in, i'm already driving down.[/quote]

[post]1102662[/post]

[quote=woofiee; 1094229][b]initially thought perhaps beidseitig meant something like an ao[/b], but okay. 69 works too. .

titty fuck? in a bj bar on soi 6 in pattaya, sure. [b]in a partytreff i want the plunge. [/b].[/quote][quote=woofiee; 939435]"club tabulouse: no party during your dates, so you should spend per session like in a normal fkk club"

not sure what you mean by no party, can you elaborate?

[b]tabulous is tempting[/b], although i'm not sure about the bareback thing ([b]rubbers are available, but i love bareback[/b]).

[b]ewa's place gets great press here, and i don't want to have to wait until i head back to pattaya, usual playground[/b]. but yeah. [b]tabulous[/b] or paschal palace [b]seem the best choices. [/b][/quote][quote=woofiee; 939376]thinking of a trip next week to one of these:

no limit girlies.

[b]club tabulose[/b]

pussy club, wuppertal.

[b]ewa's club[/b] (is this mettman?)

any one else interested? i'll probably pick one, but which?[/quote][quote=woofiee;938299]also, i thought tabulous was primarily bareback - is this place or mettman?[/quote][quote=woofiee;778385]while we're at it, perhaps someone can give me a more precise meaning to "tabulose"?i feel like such a noob. cool.[/quote]so it is clear. woofiee was involved in zealous pursuit of bareback activity at some of the most notorious bareback clubs in the past and discussed his special interest in this area openly on this forum. a few months later he is acting as though he would never consider bareback and that members who are interested in bareback are beneath contempt, are dangerous and should be segregated on the board in case other members see what they are discussing.

now i have met some disingenuous dutchmen in my time, who can say one thing and mean completely the opposite, but this is the first time i have encountered one who speaks true double dutch.

Man, you got way too much time. I'd rather spend my time fucking instead of analyzing other board members.

HB

[QUOTE=Hessen Bub; 1471965]Man, you got way too much time. I'd rather spend my time fucking instead of analyzing other board members.[/QUOTE]I hear you Bubba. I just thought it was worthwhile making a one-off exception in this case and I think others will sympathise with the reasons.

Well, I can't look at the posts of this charakter anymore when I'm logged in, because Jackson put us on each others ignore lists by force, to stop the argueing. Truth be told I never went as way back in his posts when I still could. And to what point? Thanks to the Woofiee-police, we now have a very good comparison of several posts from this member. Talk about two-face. Is Batman around?

I had a similar disturbing experience from reading Woofie reports, but didn't bother to write about it before. I recall that he wrote very favourable about Pauschalclub Bochum. Until someone posted a negative report about a recent visit. Then Woofiee took back what he had written before and somewhat agreed with the other members post. A while later there was a favourable report from him on Bochum again.

I'm quite happy that I don't see his writ anymore. Still, thanks to Myrrh for this summary.

[QUOTE=SwingerLover;1472098]I'm quite happy that I don't see his writ anymore. Still, thanks to Myrrh for this summary.[/QUOTE]Sir Swing, I think we can now draw a line under this matter now and move on. You appear to already have.

If the Woof responds then I won't respond, because the evidence already speaks for us.

We can now get back to doing what we all enjoy doing, or at least claim on here that we enjoy doing (snigger).

No more arguing. And enjoy some cake!

Nice that Myrrh decided to make private mail public, but it doesn't matter. While I was interested, I never went. All that was 3 years ago. So what happened? Am I disingenuous as Myrrh has decided, or have I changed my outlook? (BTW. I'm not Dutch. Apologise to the country now.)

In those days I had just broken up with relationship so I was a pretty angry guy. All that trust, shot to hell. Why shouldn't I use women as they use us? I was open to all possibilities and decided to ask around. Tried Mettman. Public stuff wasn't to my taste. I knew PHG and GT well, but the ***** stole nearly everything and I was fairly skint back then. Partytreffs and such were better value, but really hit or miss.

Then a business trip to Thailand with a coworker (Canadian guy who introduced me to PHG long ago) and it was amazing. Still prefer Thailand to anywhere else. People are great, sex is uncomplicated and easy, everyone wins. Probably going 5:1 for condom use, so not too smart. And so I came back with a really bad case of thrush. Some meds, some time, all gone. Was freaked tho and did the 3 month wait to watch for the inevitable all-clear. My colleague, tho. Not so lucky. He was sick for a week on return (we did drink way too much there) and which soon got worse. Few weeks later he tells me he's got a liver problem (he's always been a hard drinker) and had now tested positive for HIV.

Long story short, we're all watching him die slowly. He's had several problems with infections and toxaplasmosis which messes with his glands, he's really getting frail and the office isn't too comfortable with him there (we know better, but people talk and cheap talk causes stupid fear). He's not the first person I've known who's sick with HIV; there's a friend's sister years back who's now gone. But this time I get to watch it every freaking work day. His family is far away (they don't want anything to do with him anyway) and his workplace is becoming less tolerant now that his pallor is obvious. He's getting more scared and he's on his own. Even I'm not so comfortable. We just go to the pub occasionally, and hardly hang out. If his kidneys weren't shit to begin with, would it have taken him down so fast? No idea. I'm not a doctor. All I know is he's going down, fast.

And so yeah, something's changed in me. Some switch has been flipped and I can't tolerate the "live and let live"-lie that gets passed about easily here, as if wishful denials makes it all A-OK. Why do I still do clubs and partytreffs? My trust in women hasn't returned and the flesh is weak, so I partake but try to do so in the safest way possible. Why do I bother commenting on this kind of stuff? Because personal experience is a hell of a lot more valuable than closing your eyes and hoping for the best, and I also hate misinformation and lies.

I've also moved on, but as Myrrh felt one more personal attack was in order, I felt I needed to respond. Now I'm done.

How about letting the subject rest?. We all have opinions, blind spots, ignorance, and exuses (or reasons?). This forum is supposed to be about paid for sex not our life stories. If you like I can tell you about people I know who have died from Government blood transfusions, lung cancer from smoking, cervical cancer from sex, and HIV and so on, but I think my feelings and life are not relevant to a forum with so little tolerance

Best wishes to all

[QUOTE=Optimist; 1473585]How about letting the subject rest. We all have opinions, blind spots, ignorance, and exuses (or reasons?). This forum is supposed to be about paid for sex not our life stories. If you like I can tell you about people I know who have died from Government blood transfusions, lung cancer from smoking, cervical cancer from sex, and HIV and so on, but I think my feelings and life are not relevant to a forum with so little tolerance.

Best wishes to all[/QUOTE]I had hoped to. Myrrh's personal attack somewhat changed my mind and I wanted a very limited but succinct response to it, but I don't want to be party to this continued conversation. In fact, the only issue I have is why this thread isn't in the AO grouping with the other venues. Surely it's not because it's a FKK or anything like that; AO is the larger grouping. I also don't expect any to respond to this part. As I've been told, more-worthy users are in charge, not me.

I also don't expect this to give anyone one moment's pause in their activities. As you suggested, there is little tolerance for opposing opinions. I only wanted to explain how I came to be strongly on the other side of the fence.

[blue]Gentlemen,

The purpose of this Forum is to provide for the exchange of information between Men on the subject of finding Women for Sex.

Let's get back to the subject.

Thank You,

Jackson[/blue]

I will be in an hotel near Arabella and I'm interested in this place because I read on the website that every extra are included.

I prefer flat-rate and I'm not interested in AO, but I like to have anal sex and 3 X 110€ with anal is not a bad price.

Can someone tell me if is easy to find girl that make anal sex?

I have strongly considered to quit or reduce at maximum my posts, especially in german threads and furthermore in FKKs threads, to avoid possible ridiculous criticism and / or pointless and stupid insults by one or more intolerant old fat ignorant giant douches, to whom I didn't even bother to answer.

So now I make an "exception" for Tiger Genius, who, inspite of being just a regular member, seems active and endowed with good will of contributing usefully to the forum, unlike most of regular FKK threads posters who would do a favour to readers and to themselves by just pming themselves. If Jackson added a "useless pointless posts thread" it would quickly get the busiest of the forum, even if by quite a restricted number of posters.

So, Tiger, I read by mistake your question and remembered to check it for you. There were 2 girls offering it out of some 12 in the place, but they were the most unattractive (to me) , sorry for not remembering the names, but I think you can phone and ask. The Thekefrau on duty on wednesdays, saturdays and sundays speaks english, the other one only german. If you go there anyway there is written by the counter what girls offer, even if I have noticed that not always it's true, but I never complained.

In Grimberg (close enough and easy to reach) and VV I recall more girls offering anal. Not really fanciable girls in Grimberg offering it, while probable best looking for your purpose was VV's Magda, physically quite fuckable and with a good attitude.

Quite a few changes in the clubs, in my opinion at the moment VV offers the best choice of the 3.

Side note for fans: She didn't come back, was supposed to be back some 10 days ago. Lost in space.

Greetings,

EG

[QUOTE=Tiger Genius;1477924]Can someone tell me if is easy to find girl that make anal sex?[/QUOTE]There are girls pictures with their names and services right at the bar. Look for the girls who "Alles machen". This means anal too.

Don't get you're mini skirt ruffled, post or don't. Don't throw a sissy fit.

Thank you for the answers.

I think that Arabella or Grimberg can be my B plan if I have problem in Pauschalclub Bochum or if I will be tired, because instead to stay two day in hotel in Bochum, I think to go to partytreff Ambrosia in the first day.

[QUOTE=Tiger Genius;1477924]Can someone tell me if is easy to find girl that make anal sex?[/QUOTE]In Arabella Aida will provide anal. She usually sits on the couch at far wall facing the entrance, close by the toilets. Quite striking looking, tall in her platforms. Good performer all round actually.

[QUOTE=Ed Setra;1479145]In Arabella Aida will provide anal. She usually sits on the couch at far wall facing the entrance, close by the toilets. Quite striking looking, tall in her platforms. Good performer all round actually.[/QUOTE]Apologies, Aida is of course at Villa Venus and not at Arabella.

I have scheduled some visits two NRW. And VV, Grimberg and maybe Arabella will be on the menu altogether with M-Exclusive, Haus Panthera and ACA.

So, I wonder what was the current line-up adn the level of service in VV, Arabella and Grimberg? Any recent info regarding the line-up. I have to choose or give priority for some of those clubs, as I am short on stamina to do all three in a single trip. LOL.

There is a lack of report here, I need to check and report back. But first, I need first hand info.

Last week I was on a tour. Visited Villa Venus, Grimberg Sauna and Acapulco.

VV and Grimberg Lineup not as good as it was in early summertime.

No stunners there. Arabella is number 1 when you want to visit an RTC.

Acapulco not worth a try. Why? Never visited a club with such bad atmosphere. Good looking girls, but her attitude of a diva! Is so crappy.

You don't get in a f-mood.

So my tip for you: Arabella, than Panthera. Good service for your money.

[QUOTE=Paco69; 1489143]Last week I was on a tour. Visited Villa Venus, Grimberg Sauna and Acapulco.

VV and Grimberg Lineup not as good as it was in early summertime.

No stunners there. Arabella is number 1 when you want to visit an RTC.

Acapulco not worth a try. Why? Never visited a club with such bad atmosphere. Good looking girls, but her attitude of a diva! Is so crappy.

You don't get in a f-mood.

So my tip for you: Arabella, than Panthera. Good service for your money.[/QUOTE]Thank you very much for fresh infos,

I guess I will sample some of the RTC, as I plan two different visits to NRW, next coming weeks.

I can confirm that VV line-up is not even close that used to be last Summer. Aida and Bianca still there but this is not enough for me to return.

Observation:

- If line-up is good you have to chose number of sessions upfront. Say if you paid 90€ for two sessions third will cost you 60€ (30€ entrance + 30€ one session). If you pay three sessions upfront it will cost you 120€.

- If lineup is bad as today you pay initially 60€. This covers entrance and one session. Each next session will cost 30€, which is more convenient.

I managed two sessions without taking Aida and Bianca. Both girls slim Romanians GND in their late 20's with very basic English. Service indeed was OK, but "keine Lust" for third session at all.

Made my maiden visit to M-Exclusive sauna club on a Saturday afternoon. It is close to Munster, in Dulmen. And that is a 100 km distance from DUS airport.

Actually, I have visited its sister club sauna M2 in August so I know the price structure and the service level but what I can't guess was the quality of the line-up.

With my colleagues, I arrive at 4 pm. We asked how many girls were there at the moment, the answer was 12.

The deal was such as;

1 x 45.

2 x 75.

3 x 90.

4 x 99 Euro, as already stated on the web site.

The thekefrau asks how many sessions we want to buy, all of us, we have checked the line-up (you can see some of them because they take you to the bar to pay the entrance) and decided to start with 4 sessions.

The line-up seems ok and on the level of look department, easily comparable with Club Angelique.

All girls are from Ro / BG but they are good on look department, much better to some of Grimberg and Villa Venus. Some girls speak passable English but most don't. We were the only foreigners in the club because this is a local place, most punters knows each other.

The sessions takes long 20 min and this includes every extra that the girls provide, such as CIM, COB etc. I don't know about creampieing them. There is no photos of each girl who tells you what they do so you have to ask them, I guess most girls practice AO and be careful, if you don't warn, they jump over you to cowgirl, with bareback. So, if you don't do AO, you should warn them beforehand, some doesn't have condoms in their purse and have to rush from the room to fetch after the session started.

The girls I sampled were;

DEA: Brunette, Romanian. Nice body, nice face and nice lips. DFK very good, BBBJ good style. As this was my first session of this trips, I couldn't last more than 10 min but she deserve more time in the room. The only drawback, she doesn't do CIM, I put my dick to her mouth before ejaculate, but after first water jet, she put out from her mouth and pour it to first breast. Waisted opportunity.

RUBI: Maybe, this is the best looking girl of the house, that day. A body to kill, face is pretty. Young Rominian girl. She is a bit pro, DFK not so good, before completion put out the condom and asked to blowjob, she says she don't do CIM and I made COB just after mish.

Has anyone checked out Sky Sauna Club?

[url]http://www.sky-saunaclub.com/[/url]

Looks like decent a amount of their ladies go bareback if I reading it correctly. Some ladies are marked tabulos like Porn Lena or Natalia. Thinking about checking it out during my next trip in January.

Also, can anyone tell me the deal with Sauna Club Anubis?

[url]http://saunaclub-anubis.de/[/url]

Seems like they have a bareback / AO day on Wednesday. But what about the other days? Are the ladies available for AO at a per fuck price?

As I have been trolling the German boards, I also came across another new bareback place. (I don't speak or read German, but can kind of get the idea based on Google translate in Chrome.)

Sex Pension looks to have three of four really cute bareback ladies.

[url]http://www.sexpension.de/[/url]

Lily and Sandra make the cut!

[QUOTE=NoGermaphobe; 1510524]Has anyone checked out Sky Sauna Club?

Also, can anyone tell me the deal with Sauna Club Anubis?

Sex Pension looks to have three of four really cute bareback ladies.[/QUOTE]I looked at the websites and it doesn't seem to me as if Sky Sauna Club and Sexpension offer any bareback at all. Could still be, but I don't think so. Don't get fooled by the word "tabooless", that is one of the most misused words and doesn't necessarily mean that they will do bareback sex.

Anubis does offer the AO-flatrate on Wednesdays, as it was before at Cleopatra Arena. I suppose AO will be available on a P4P basis as well with some of the women.

[QUOTE=

As I have been trolling the German boards, I also came across another new bareback place. (I don't speak or read German, but can kind of get the idea based on Google translate in Chrome.)

Sex Pension looks to have three of four really cute bareback ladies.

[url]http://www.sexpension.de/[/url]

Lily and Sandra make the cut![/QUOTE]I didn't see anywhere on their website anything about bareback sex. Where did you see it?

I am pretty sure that Sex Pension is indeed a bareback club for two reasons.

1. All the ladies have tabulos mentioned in their profile. To SwingerLover's point, this does not necessarily mean that the ladies offer bareback. But in my experience following the bareback scene in Germany since 2006, it can mean and it sometimes does. Again, I don't speak or read German. So I will defer to SL's wisdom on this matter. But I have been monitoring the German boards for quite a while. Google Chrome does a decent job of translation and I have gotten fairly good at picking out certain key words in the reports. Which brings me to.

2. There is a well known and active German board that is dedicated to bareback discussion exclusively. There is a thread on that board titled Mülheim SexPension. Obviously it is against the forum rules here to mention the board or link to it. But in that thread, there are several posters that report bareback at the club, if I reading it correctly. One poster describes bareback creampies with Lily and another mentioned that Natalia jumped on him bareback, but requested he not creampie her since she wasn't on birth control. Further up in the thread someone asks if all the ladies allow creampies. I think someone replies yes, but then this is contradicted later in the thread with Natalia. So it seems at least bareback is available with creampies available with some of the ladies.

Again, I cannot be 100% sure on any of this, but I am pretty sure. Of course, I would rather converse with the folks here about it in English. I don't post on the German boards. I just view them for intel on new places. I may give Sex Pension a try in January. But I will only be in NRW for two days and my bareback club tour is pretty stacked. But some of those ladies on the webpage seem hotter than the average bareback ladies in Germany. So it may be worth a try.

Another interesting note about Sex Pension is the listed photo / video option. No idea what it costs, but if you've ever wanted a memento of your bareback exploits, this may also be the place for you. Hope one of the locals will check it out shortly and report back.

[QUOTE=Jimmy Boy 99;1510858]I didn't see anywhere on their website anything about bareback sex. Where did you see it?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=NoGermaphobe; 1510937]So I will defer to SL's wisdom on this matter.

Obviously it is against the forum rules here to mention the board or link to it. But in that thread, there are several posters that report bareback at the club, if I reading it correctly.[/QUOTE]My "wisdom" about this place is limited to what I read on their website! It could be that AO is possible, so if someone knows first hand, then please report back!

As for mentioning the forum or linking to it: That rule applies to fora in English only! So if the forum is in German, then you may post a link; so please do.

So, Anubis has AO flat rate every Wednesday?

Cause normally this is a fkk club?

I really like the look of the place, don't suppose anyone has been there lately?

SL,

Here is the link to one of the German AO forums I visit. It seems like a good resource for both AO clubs, but also seems to focus on escorts and providers of AO service as well.

You will have to register to view the board. But it is free.

[url]http://www.tabulose-huren.com/showthread.php/25534-M%C3%BClheim-SexPension[/url]

[QUOTE=SwingerLover; 1511760]My "wisdom" about this place is limited to what I read on their website! It could be that AO is possible, so if someone knows first hand, then please report back!

As for mentioning the forum or linking to it: That rule applies to fora in English only! So if the forum is in German, then you may post a link; so please do.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=NoGermaphobe;1512705]You will have to register to view the board. But it is free.[/QUOTE]Two years ago I tried to register there three times and nothing worked and it was definitely not for free back then, except if you uploaded a report about something new. I did that and still nothing worked, so I unregistered again and have never bothered with this TH-forum again.

The board is free. There may be one or two sections you can't access, but 90% pf the board are available for free. Quality though is poor, unmoderated, most girls are. Let's say it politely. Not exactly top models.

HB

I just tried to register with a brand new account as well and I also received the request to purchase an account. So it appears the board is no longer free. But I still have access with my old account. I never purchased a membership with that account.

Regardless, the original point remains. Bareback and CIP seem to be available at.

[url]http://www.sexpension.de/[/url]

Although some ladies may request you not cum inside them. This is based off of the postings on that board. I may check it out on my next trip. But one of the locals or more frequent travelers may want to give them a call or check it out as well.

[QUOTE=SinjinSwift;1515898]I just registered. Can't seem to access anything without paying for an account. Is it possible you are grandfathered in or something?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=SinjinSwift;1515898]I just registered. Can't seem to access anything without paying for an account. Is it possible you are grandfathered in or something?[/QUOTE]Could be.

HB

According to advertising on local press, on 14-01-2014 the FKK Villa Romantika (Blitzkuhlenstrasse 109,

Recklinghausen, phone +49 2361 15283) will open as an all-inclusive sessions club, on the same model as Arabella / Venus / Grimberg / Verena:

- entry fee 9. 99€

- half hour service (all extras included) 29. 99€

- opening hours: 10-24 daily

- 11 models are announced.

The.

[url=http://www.fkk-romantika.de/]website[/url]

Has not been updated yet.

Villa Romantika is open and getting "value for money" reviews, assessed at being a bit sub-Arabella.

Another club re-opening to include AO I think is FKK Viersen, Gladbacher Str 513. Free entry "tabulos" session 50, ordinary session 35

[QUOTE=Optimist;1522993]Another club re-opening to include AO I think is FKK Viersen, Gladbacher Str 513. Free entry "tabulos" session 50, ordinary session 35[/QUOTE]I was there a few times when it was Partytreff Viersen a few years ago, pretty shitty set up that time. Website talks about parties but also mentions free entry so I guess you can walk in and have just one shag or whatever.

[url]http://fkkclub-viersen.de/site/angebote/[/url]

[QUOTE=Chopsticks31; 1512464]So, Anubis has AO flat rate every Wednesday?

Cause normally this is a fkk club?

I really like the look of the place, don't suppose anyone has been there lately?[/QUOTE]I reckon if they have 10 girls for the Wednesday party. 3 or 4 would be bare and the rest rubber, thats how it was in Cleopatra times last year.

[QUOTE=SwingerLover; 1511760]My "wisdom" about this place is limited to what I read on their website! It could be that AO is possible, so if someone knows first hand, then please report back!

As for mentioning the forum or linking to it: That rule applies to fora in English only! So if the forum is in German, then you may post a link; so please do.[/QUOTE]Sexpension is indeed AO. I went there today and had to wait for Lily since she was with another monger. She grabbed a condom and I asked to try without. She said ok, but not to come inside of her.

They speak English and Polish there, so German isn't really necessary. Just know Stunde= hour, and halb= half. As stated on the website, it's 60hh / 100h.

I will be in the area in mid-March and was thinking about hitting two clubs over a weekend.

What would be the better choice for a early Sunday visit?

[QUOTE=Cvangt; 1527455]Sexpension is indeed AO. I went there today and had to wait for Lily since she was with another monger. She grabbed a condom and I asked to try without. She said ok, but not to come inside of her.

They speak English and Polish there, so German isn't really necessary. Just know Stunde= hour, and halb= half. As stated on the website, it's 60hh / 100h.[/QUOTE]I did Lily 5 times this past trip & she allowed CIP every time. She provides great service! Best to arrive early & pick your girl before the after work crowd shows up.

[QUOTE=Vito Corleone;1531452]I did Lily 5 times this past trip & she allowed CIP every time. She provides great service! Best to arrive early & pick your girl before the after work crowd shows up.[/QUOTE]On the website ([url]http://www.sexpension.de/ladies[/url]) it shows a "Begleitservice" or Escort service. Is the address also "incall" service? I think I have the correct location for Sexpension: Schultenhofstraße 44, 45475 Mülheim an der Ruhr.

Lily is not listed. Only Kati, Julia, Claudia, Isabela and Jeni. Perhaps the site only lists the girls working that day. I'll check again.

Hi,

What about Sauna Grimbergs premises? Is it less than Arabella, you only see 2 couches on their website for example.

BL

[QUOTE=ButtLover; 1532732]Hi,

What about Sauna Grimbergs premises? Is it less than Arabella, you only see 2 couches on their website for example.

BL[/QUOTE]No, Arabella is smaller than Grimberg or Villa Venus.

HB

[QUOTE=ButtLover; 1532732]Hi,

What about Sauna Grimbergs premises? Is it less than Arabella, you only see 2 couches on their website for example.

BL[/QUOTE]Grimberg is bigger, but Arabella has more rooms.

[QUOTE=Forcharles; 1532636]On the website (url]http://www.sexpension.de/ladies[/url]) it shows a "Begleitservice" or Escort service. Is the address also "incall" service? I think I have the correct location for Sexpension: Schultenhofstraße 44, 45475 Mülheim an der Ruhr.

Lily is not listed. Only Kati, Julia, Claudia, Isabela and Jeni. Perhaps the site only lists the girls working that day. I'll check again.[/QUOTE]Lilly must be on break now.

The address is correct. It's a small apartment with 2 bedrooms & 1 bathroom with toilet & shower. There's a big living room with a TV & bed, but the girls hang out there. If both rooms are not available or if your girl is busy, there is no place to wait. They will ask you to return.

You can either wait outside in your car or outside the door in the stairway.

I was looking at the ladies profiles on the Arabella website and I was wondering what that abbreviation meant.

FT = Französisch Total = CIM = Come In Mouth.

HB

I was in Venus on Wednesday (4th March) and good surprise, it was 100 € for 3 girls at the beginning of the afternoon. About 10 girls, no ugly one.

First girl : Ebru : turkish. 30 yo, beautiful face like Jessica Fiorentino, little belly, long black hair, some tatoos. Cannot kiss longtime because of asthma. Good BJ. Covered sex. Many positions. Rode me in inverted cowgirl to finish (great!). Then she had a funny phone conversation with her brother and the repairman for her car.

Second girl : Anna, bulgarian. 20-25 yo, really beautiful (like Elli of Babylon but even hotter) , dark skin, black hair, new tatoo on her back (you can't touch it's still painful). Kisses on the couch, then zimmer. BJ. Covered sex. I came in doggy 15 minutes later and she was ready to leave. Next time I'll try to last longer.

Third girl : Larissa, ro. 32 or 34, long black hair, little breasts but terrific nipples. I talked to her before (without sitting on the couch) for quite a long time, and when she and I were ready, I sat next to her, we kissed, she gave me a BJ on the couch (she was the only one of the three to do that) , then zimmer. Good BJ, good covered sex, and she offered me to come in her mouth.

There were at least 2 or 3 girls left I would have liked to fuck (Bonny the blonde doll, a student type brunette and some other girl). The price structure change during the day to 30 €/entry + 30 €/girl.

Every girl declared AO and / or FT even if only Larissa did FT but I don't care as long as the girls gets more money. There was some cake to eat and apples. A good place if you're short on money but bring a book and try to last until 20 or 25 minutes because once you come, the girl wants to leave the room. Too bad that the social time is short, or only for the frequent guests.

Ebru gave me a kiss goodbye

[QUOTE=BigBuddy69; 1543884]I was in Venus on Wednesday (4th March) and good surprise, it was 100 € for 3 girls at the beginning of the afternoon. About 10 girls, no ugly one.

Third girl : Larissa, ro. 32 or 34, long black hair, little breasts but terrific nipples. I talked to her before (without sitting on the couch) for quite a long time, and when she and I were ready, I sat next to her, we kissed, she gave me a BJ on the couch (she was the only one of the three to do that) , then zimmer. Good BJ, good covered sex, and she offered me to come in her mouth.

Too bad that the social time is short, or only for the frequent guests.[/QUOTE]Every girl I have been with at Venus has done a couch BJ before going to the room. Just uncover your dick and point to it; she'll get the hint. You can also fuck on the couch before going to the room f you want.

After months on "strike", I decided to be active in this forum again, not that I didn't travel or monger during this time of course. I see that here there are no great updates on Red Carpets Clubs, so I'm going to fill this emptiness. I made a recent blitz in Grimberg, VV and Arabella, I will soon post about it. For now a couple of answers and considerations.

ButtLover,

Arabella is the smallest club, VV the biggest. Personally, I find Grimberg the less "convenient" from a practical point of view, because the lounge is all divided into small rooms, I mean that you can't keep the situation under control, it's dispersive. If in the other 2 clubs you don't have big problems in keeping an eye on which girl is back, busy, etc, in Grimberg you will have to keep on walking around, quite annoying. Also, it's difficult to find an empty sofa for you to sit, you are likely to find one because the girl who left her stuff there is temporarily absent, but when she comes back you must choose between leaving or getting involved with her, and surely you are not going to sit beside another punter.

BigBuddy,

I was in VV on Tuesday 11, your calendar is wrong. They told me that option works only on fridays and saturdays, I'll soon be back in those days, so I will verify. For the first time in VV I got the option 60€ entrance with one session included and then 30 each following session, which I prefer to the option where you must declare beforehand how many sessions you are going to have, because more freedom is allowed. Also, this year they added a limitation if the "beforehand option" works: you can't go more than once with the same girl, with the other options you are allowed. The note of the payment structure was on the counter by TF, but, since you noticed that, could you tell me at what time they change the fee?

For the rest, in all clubs any sex can be performed on sofas, usually just hands and tongues working. If it's an intercourse, normally girls will put a towel around their waist to cover the "shameful act", I always wondered why, surely they are not shy timid virgins. This time I saw a tender girl riding a guy without towel on a sofa in Grimberg.

Now I got some experience in these clubs, I see things with a different eye from when I was a "shocked" beginner, and I realized that there are some kinds or rules and procedures. For instance, normally you will be accompanied to the exit by one of the girls who has been with you that day, TK may even call one of them, or in your previous visits (if the ones you had that day are all busy, one of your past honeys will probably volunteer) , so if you leave shortly after your last session probably it will be the last of your girls to take you to the door.

About couch time, it's up to the girls. Obviously there must be some conditions, not necessarily chemistry and attraction, basically you need to speak a common language. Of course being a known customer helps, but it is not everything, she must have some liking towards you, even only enjoy the conversation with you. Personally I don't like public "exposure" and I enjoy filling the boring dead time between sessions talking to them, I think I've set records, LOL!

I too noticed that generally couch time is shorter now, at least with girls I was going with for the first time and / or who never saw me before, those who know me give me good chat time even without sessioning, and I'm not a frequent customer, I don't live in NRW (unfortunately).

Same as you, I noticed, in the 3 clubs, contrarily to what I was used to last year, when actually my room time was pratically always exceeding the allowance nearly anywhere, anyhow with whomever and anyway would never expire before the agreed minutes, is that now girls want to leave or try to leave the room when you unload, at least if it is the first time you go with them. Of course I try to hold them down, of course if they insist I let them go.

Enough for today, field reports will follow

What are the girls like in these clubs? Are they comparable to the girls working in the bigger FKKs? Clubs like Oase, World, GoldenTime.

Do they speak English or German?

[QUOTE=Kaisar; 1544331]What are the girls like in these clubs? Are they comparable to the girls working in the bigger FKKs? Clubs like Oase, World, GoldenTime.

Do they speak English or German?[/QUOTE]No. The line up is more "normal" girls. May be a few are 7-8, but most others will be 5-6 (and some dogs). However, there will be more fuckable girls that you will be able to honour. If you are after optifucks divas, you better go to upmarket clubs. But the service there wll be far less good and far more expensive since any extra will be charged, while in here all extras provided by the girl, being CIM, COB, AO or anal, or whatever, is included in the 30 Euros.

Some girls will not speak much of eitherr German or English.

These are called AO clubs, because this service is openly available, but you don't have to abide. Girls will always ask "with or without", and you can choose.

For me those clubs are my favorites because: 1) there is always a few girls worth going with; 2) The cost structure is excellent. 110 or 120 for 3 sessions, all included (just check with the girl what she does before going up) 3) The girls are not prima donnas, thay are just much more natural that those in the big Hesse clubs. No sharks there. 4) I like the sofa policy: girls are not allowed to sit and chat in group, which can be intimidating if you want to interrupt and approach one. Here, each girl sits on a 2 seater, and if you are interested, just sit with her. After a few minutes, take your decision, stay or get up. Simple. Cons: hardly any food, no pools.

In summary, if what you want is being surrounded by 50+ beautiful naked ladies, in a luxurious environment, with pool, restaurant and the rest, don't go there.

If what you want is good fucking sessions at a reasonable price witt mostly accomodating and friendly girls (there are exceptions, of course) , those clubs may interest you.

[QUOTE=Wanking; 1525365]I was there a few times when it was Partytreff Viersen a few years ago, pretty shitty set up that time. Website talks about parties but also mentions free entry so I guess you can walk in and have just one shag or whatever.

[url]http://fkkclub-viersen.de/site/angebote/[/url][/QUOTE]Fuck that didn't last long. Says it closed on the homepage.

[url]http://fkkclub-viersen.de/[/url]

[QUOTE=Wanking;1544995]Fuck that didn't last long. Says it closed on the homepage.[/QUOTE]It says it's temporarily (= vorübergehend) closed.

kaisar,

i can't help agreeing each and every word dreams wrote, from all points of view, and i fully share his opinions. maybe a bit optimistic about the quality of girls, but even there, it's true you will always find those 2-3 girls you need for your satisfaction, you don't need to have tens. in these clubs normally you don't have a big embarrassment of choice: a couple of them will outstand, which doesn't necessarily mean they are extremely beautiful, the rest of them will be more or less at the same level for fuckability or unfuckability. however, i don't know if i could have written any better than dreams, simply true and perfect, including the matter of languages. btw, i'm proud to inform the world that i learnt a bit of romanian, so now i have the chance to converse in nearly all european countries, especially western ones, since anywhere we go we are extremely likely to deal with romanian providers.

i entered the club in late afternoon, i had phoned before to make sure i could have some safety nets, just in case i caught desired girls on days off. as posted many times, german forums are filled with pratically daily updates, so i knew more or less who and what to expect. main target of the visit was raissa, beatified in those forums, joined the club only 3 months ago, new for me. second should have been elena, already met last winter when she was new, unfortunately she was off.

i was welcomed by nadja, a bulgarian brunette who has been working there with many breaks since a couple of years, i had never met her before. a pleasant sight, but she quickly abandoned me by the counter. normally girls opening the door, especially if you are new to them, try to hook you up, probably she realized, a bit by tk and a lot by going-to-room-denisa's smiles that i wasn't that new. the lights on the ceiling were off, i got an impression of grotty place that i never had in my previous visits. inside, at first glance i wasn't as happy as usual, few girls on sofas, none of them to my liking, and a couple of punters, a few couples obviously in the rooms. i followed the usual rites, starting from 60 euros entrance with one room included.

gaby on day off, denisa and nicole, both gained kgs (not that they were skinny before, but now they are not that attractive) , were the only ones left of the glorious team i had happily met last year, when there was quite good choice. i already knew about the several losses, i only forgot to ask about stefania, probably in that spot i would have finally accepted her avances, she had always been so kind to me and "courting" me, but i never chose her because a bit chubby, but her reviews, attitude and personality would have surely deserved. the scene was completed by the 3 long time milfs i have always seen, the dominican girl and a few new girls i didn't find interesting.

i didn't have too much time, nor (contrarily to normal) somebody to talk to or who could anyway entertain me, so i decided to proceed with the first room, in that moment only nadja available for my taste. no languages in common, no talks, no preliminaries on the couch since i had noticed she wasn't that kissable, just a nod and there we went. being the first ao session of this year, i knew i wouldn't have lasted that long, so i also took that into account, the good bullet would have been for raissa.

her body has very good shapes, especially her boobs are really proportionate, firm, definitely a good body. face is ok too, but when she jumped off the heels, i realized she's quite short, what a pity! after a few quick sort of kisses on my body, which i reciprocated on her boobs, she proceeded downstairs. nadja hasn't got a tongue, she has a blender, a light-speed mixer, her tongue is a fury on your dick! at home i basically live on blowjobs, i'm used to them, got one even two evenings before the flight, i have been sucked hundreds of times by plenty of girls, but i don't remember many, if any, close to that. i was really sorry to tell her to stop what she was doing. i don't remember if she asked me for gummy, i'd say she didn't. a couple of positions, then, when i was close to the end, i moved to her asshole. she put some cream, i slided inside effortlessly, i even checked i wasn't in the "wrong" hole, lol!

i would have liked to count the words we told each other during our session, which lasted maybe 15 minutes. she wanted to go and i had no reason and no justification to try to hold her. in arabella, i'd say only with elena i had come out of the room before the allowed 30 mins, and anyway i think in her case we were at about 25. the lack of any kind of interaction helped me to establish the (negative) record.

it was quite a mechanical session, no passion, no communication, no hotness, but still i was satisfied and would tell you to try her. her only physical defect is her heigth, her mouth didn't inspire me but it wasn't any bad to look at. for the rest, she does all you ask her without any complaints, she phisically participates, i mean that she moves, she doesn't lay still like a corpse. and she's worth a try just for her blowing skills!

when raissa got free i called her by me. she's romanian. 18, long black hair, tall, slim, some 4-5 kgs more wouldn't hurt, pretty, sociable and plays with enthusiasm.

we spoke a little, then we started kissing and she wanted to go to the room. i realized she didn't want to stay too much with a punter, i had noticed how quick she was with the other customers, both in and out of the room. anyway, we had a great gfe session: dfk, caresses, several positions, participated, intense, not mechanical, even if i could feel her hurry. when i finally unloaded the time was nearly over, but i cuddled (withheld? sequestered?) her and played a little until due time. i must say she didn't make resistance, didn't try to escape nor called for help, lol!

eventually i got to know a couple of the new girls, then i paid the dues, dedicating the owed chat time, actually very short on that day if compaired to "normal", to the survivors of the "old glories". later, i got dressed to leave and the blonde one accompanied me to the door, we warmly greeted each other and she closed the door after i was out of her sight.

final conclusion: currently arabella is not that good anymore, as i had already written in my last posts, it is getting worse and worse. level of beauty has collapsed, service has worsened. the new girls are not as pretty, as friendly and as customer oriented as the ones that were there last summer. i could say that probably it is not easy to replace the various alexandra, carmen, bonnie and all the other ones whose names i don't even remember all.

inspite of my affection for it, arabella is not anymore on top of my list, but still i will visit it. raissa (in the overall) and elena (just for the body) are a good reason, and to me it's always nice to see the survivors of the glorious army of summer-autumn 2013.

The problem with the clubs at the moment is that there are too many, which means the girls (and probably guys too) are spread a little thin. It used to be Arabella, Grimberg and Venus; but lately Alina, Verena and Romantica have been added (and Dietzenbach, which seems to have the best line up). You could easily make 3 good line ups (for a RTC) out of the different girls of the 6 clubs. But as I said it is spread a bit thin now, Bonnie is in Venus by the way. Which has some other good girls (Larissa, pretty Anna, Alexandra, sisters Lilly and Maya) , some others not there at the moment (Emma, Renata) or scared of by Barbara. Former Venus girls like Bianca, Michaela, Sarah, Flori are either in Romantica or Alina. I could name a few good girls in the other clubs as well, but it always feels like there is only 2/3 doable girls at the moment.

I already wrote a couple of things about my return to VV in my second-last post. Again, before going I had phoned to make sure I could have safety nets (since in these clubs beauty is not abundant), supposed to be Laura, Bonnie and Alexa. We must consider that we talk about all inclusive service, for about 30 minutes, at the price of 30 euros! My round trip train tickets Duisburg-Wattenscheid or Duisburg-Gelsenkirchen cost 22 euros. VV is in Duisburg, with Strasserbahn I spend 3 euros, which probably should actually be 5, but I often try to "save" on public means.

I was opened the door by a bulgarian girl I didn't know, just half a smile, no words, she abandoned me by Barbara at the counter. She looked quietly fuckable, just a bit short, but proportionate, a possible candidate, considering average expected bodies.

Since stepping in the hall, and from my position in front of TK, my eyes "unconsciously" immediately looked ahead, over the bar, by the opposite sofa at the bottom of the hall. Laura was sitting on her sofa, already scanning me. Her witty eyes were penetrating me, surely she remembered seeing me in the past, but she looked like doubtful. She didn't remember well about me? Or she didn't know what to do with me this time?

The place was nearly empty, I could count hardly 5 girls and 2 punters, probably many rooms were busy. When I went downstairs I met a few girls. 2-3 were busy with laundry, but the other ones gave me the impression to be "hiding". 2 were alone in the sauna, never seen that, I thought they were not allowed.

Back upstairs, I slowly walked towards my "magnet", like if I was wandering randomly. When I saw she was fine with that, I went straight to her. A little preamble: she's very moody and unbelievably dickhead, which is probably what I like most in her, even if I reckon that staring at her eyes closely, possibly during a mish, should be charged as an extra. It's a sort of sadic experience, she's a real rebel and she gets offended very easily, inspite of being her provoking and maltreating you, she doesn't appreciate you reacting, not even as a joke. Once I had to "beg" her to forgimme and come in the room, once she didn't want me at all. She does if and what she wants, carelessly, you can't govern her, she's in control, not you, she chooses positions, what to do and what not, how long, you follow her instructions, not the contrary, etc, that works on the sofa as well as in the room.

I had met her for the first time in September. So, she said she remembered me but not the details, not difficult to believe, after months, she being such a dickhead and meeting, probably with her normal unkindness, hundreds of men. I remembered she had one tooth missing on the right side of the upper arcade, now I noticed there were another 2 missing going towards the inside, a poor one was left alone when she smiled too much. For the rest, apart slightly saggy boobs, but she's 32 and mother of 2, I would say that strictly phisically speaking, she's the best looking girl of VV, and surely not only in there: she's Romanian, tall, with a great backside, has a pretty beautiful face and eyes I get lost in. Even without getting a bit "fixed", she could well work in better clubs. She gave me a good looong funny couch time, basically maltreating me, LOL!

In the room, as I remembered, she categorically refused even to hear the word "condom". Her motto: "if you want to use that thing, you go with another girl". Thinking of that reminds me of some news you read sometimes, of sick girls willing to spread infections, recently I came across this:

[url]http://www.kenyan-post.com/2014/03/shocker-university-female-student.html[/url]

But in such places doing such things, having such worries is quiet pointless: all it takes is one wrong person and all the club, and then all clubs, will be infected, punters included.

The session was good, unfortunately she had a cold with a bit blocked up nose, so little blowing and no kissing, but I couldn't complain (with her you couldn't anyway, LOL). We (she) didn't bother about time, I enjoyed some relaxing after session "fighting".

Then I looked for a peaceful hidden corner to rest, and I saw Bonnie, ex Arabella. She saw me, she was staring at me, I turned my head, I wanted to rest, also I remembered we had no common languages, I would have gone later to her, what would have I done on her sofa since we couldn't communicate? A friend of mine had sessioned with her in Wattenscheid, he had been quite satisfied but sorry for being unable to exchange 2 words. Our glances met quite a few times for more than an hour. I took note of the "absences", some I was aware of, some I wasn't. Bianca, if I recall well, is said to be in Romantica; I heard Aida has been sent away, I don't remember why; Alexandra ex Arabella left, so did Flori. I didn't know about Nathaly and other ones, of course I couldn't ask one by one, I had understood on the phone that another Alexa, who gets good reviews in german forums, was off. A couple of girls I had already had in past visits tried to hook me up, but I politely refused, I told them I was waiting for Bonnie.

When I felt "ready", I sat in the sofa near hers, waiting for her return. When she came back I greeted her using her real name, she was very cold and unresponsive, then left for a minute. A punter witnessing told me to try again. When she came back, I tried to tell her something, she said she spoke only german and turned her head. Got the message, I walked away.

I wasn't sure about what to do, I didn't feel very keen on making experiments, I wasn't really fancying the girls around. Maybe the girl who had opened the door when I arrived? It would have been a meeting without any communication, just mechanical, without particular fun or participation, no comments, nothing but action, probably cold, like the one with Nadja in Arabella. I headed towards her. She was by the drinks machine, but then Laura walked beside going to her sofa. What a striking difference! WTF, I knew what was the right choice, I had always known it, since the beginning, moreover after giving a look around to the available girls. During rest time I had even bothered to find a German fellow to ask Barbara if I could session twice with the same girl, because it wasn't clear, I had already sessioned with her twice in the same day, but it was last year. Also, that day she was in "good" mood and she hadn't even hurt me, LOL!

Final consideration: the club has lost a lot of talents, and beauty (which wasn't anyway that much also before) is not really something you can expect to see in there. I saw less unfuckable girls than in the past, this time the girls were just fuckable, with more or less effort and fantasy, and didn't seem too enthusiastic, didn't send out good vibes, the atmosphere was quite cold. There's been a moment the music stopped for some 30 seconds, there was an embarrassing absolute silence, inspite of nearly all sofas having a punter or a girl sitting, everyone on their own. Laura must have been away, because she can't keep her mouth shut, even if no dicks are around, LOL! She surely would have commented, loudly. Anyway, back to beauty, it is in beholder's eyes, and this works especially in these clubs, so. It's up to you...

I saw also new girls, but without Laura, outstanding phisically and being the only one talking to other girls on other sofas and keeping people awake with her loud voice, at the moment I don't know if I'd go there. More than half of my permanence that day was with her, mostly on the sofa.
Let's just say that anyway prices and service are worth a visit, you can expect a lot for your dick, but not for your eyes

@ Eastgoing : You're right, it was Wednesday the 5th. For the price change, I noticed it after my second or my third session I don't remember, it was in the middle of the afternoon.

[QUOTE=EastGoing; 1545603]I had met her for the first time in September. So, she said she remembered me but not the details, not difficult to believe, after months, she being such a dickhead and meeting, probably with her normal unkindness, hundreds of men. I remembered she had one tooth missing on the right side of the upper arcade, now I noticed there were another 2 missing going towards the inside, a poor one was left alone when she smiled too much. For the rest, apart slightly saggy boobs, but she's 32 and mother of 2, I would say that strictly phisically speaking, she's the best looking girl of VV, and surely not only in there: she's Romanian, tall, with a great backside, has a pretty beautiful face and eyes I get lost in. Even without getting a bit "fixed", she could well work in better clubs. She gave me a good looong funny couch time, basically maltreating me, LOL!

Let's just say that anyway prices and service are worth a visit, you can expect a lot for your dick, but not for your eyes[/QUOTE]Chap,

I would not go with her even if it were for free. Disregarding the description of this woman's status and appearance (saggy boobs. 32, mother of 2) , one wonders that if you visit with her for a third time, by then will she have any teeth left? One also questions why she is loosing teeth. Certainly not from DFK. Is the Tooth Fairy responsible for this dental loss or perhaps a more sinister cause? As you suggest, if this is the best that is on offer in this club, you are very welcome indeed!

I fully realize that what occurs in the more glamorous mega-clubs would surprise many in this forum but at least the plushness (of the mega-clubs) and the attractiveness of the hookers in these mega establishments, allows the punter to escape from the cares and realities of day to day existence. The grotty and grotesque feeling I get when reading your report about Villa Venus would make me steer way clear of this establishment. I certainly commend your writing skills, but I wish your subject matter was more in line with what I believe the majority of members (who frequent the Germany FKK Clubs Section) wish to read about in this forum (that is nice times, with attractive girls in nice surroundings). Although I do realize that some will not like me saying this and indeed some will relish the prospect of following in your footsteps. Despite having said all of the above, nevertheless I commend you for writing as you have with some style (although it does transgress occasionally into the realm of prostitute poetry). I certainly do wish you well, good health and happiness.

CD

Thanks for your answer, BB69.

CD,

thanks for your feedback and appreciation. Surely what you say is not wrong, and is agreeable by many points of view. Some of my "answers" are already written, by me and also by Dreams: we talk about 30 euros for all inclusive hassle-free shark-free service. The "passion" and effort girls put in these clubs is unmatchable by the better looking girls of the glamorous clubs.

A) dealing with a more expensive, hurried, probably wooden girl,

Be) who will give me a minor service and less options inspite of some, not all, additional expensive available extras,

See) knowing that I'm highly likely not to finish (ok, that's my personal problem with condoms) , as it happened to me in Artemis, where I unloaded once out of 3 sessions, with "only" 260 euros damage because I didn't take any extras,

Those things don't attract me, and make me rather these small clubs, whose girls also have a much friendlier attitude. I can't imagine a girl in Artemis or Oase staying on the couch with me just as a company for a few hours, without paying her, maybe without even sessioning with her. Aside personal records, in bigger clubs when you approach or get approached and you are not going to "proceed", you will be instantly dumped, in these clubs you (or at least it happens to me with some of the girls, of course not all) can even just chat as a past time.

I just report what happens to me, what I feel, it can be liked or not, I respect other people's tastes and opinions, hoping they respect mine too.

As to health issues, as I said, a wrong person, man or girl, is enough to spoil plenty of people. As I wrote, some concerns exist but you must leave them out, the solution would be safe sex, the best solution would be chastity or wanking.

Thanks for your wishes, I will need more than that, LOL!

Soon I'll post about my visit in Grimberg, which was in the overall the best of the 3, maybe you will like it more, but I don't think there will be much poetry this time :-)

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1546584]The "passion" and effort girls put in these clubs is unmatchable by the better looking girls of the glamorous clubs.[/QUOTE]I won't agree with you on this but I know where your coming from. I used to do all the smaller clubs, fkk cocoon, zeus and heavens gate to name a few. The service was top notch and you could find some lookers in the clubs. And 30 euro's per session was easy on the budget. Problems arose when the larger clubs started opening, made it harder to find the quality talent along with the cheaper rates. And its very hard to spend an entire day in these small clubs. The facilities just don't cut it. Now that airfare is triple what I used to pay, I'd rather spend my time at the larger clubs.

I guess I also understand where you come from on this issue EastGoing.

However, generally speaking, choice of good looking hookers can be very limited in these smaller clubs. A lot of the girls will not speak English (or sometimes German even). Club food / facilities are also (generally speaking) very limited and can leave a lot to be desired by comparison with the mega-clubs. You are basically getting bareback and couch-time and an inexpensive price in clubs like Arabella / Venus / Grimberg and are prepared (generally speaking) to accept lesser looking women in order to achieve these benefits. Some of us do not want bareback (or know how to get same in the mega-clubs) and are either not needing excessive couch-time with these girls (because they are hookers and not girlfriends) or are prepared (or have the budget) to pay for same. Also do not automatically assume that couch-time is not available to well known customers particularly during quieter days. IMO it comes down to this; you are prepared (sometimes) to accept lesser looks in return for a lesser fee and bareback / couch-time. Others (like myself) are prepared to pay a bit more for good looks extra services and better facilities. The above statements are generally speaking and I am aware that there are exceptions applicable to all of the above statements.

I wish you well.

CD

[QUOTE=Capt Dan; 1546740]I guess I also understand where you come from on this issue EastGoing.

However, generally speaking, choice of good looking hookers can be very limited in these smaller clubs. A lot of the girls will not speak English (or sometimes German even). Club food / facilities are also (generally speaking) very limited and can leave a lot to be desired by comparison with the mega-clubs. You are basically getting bareback and couch-time and an inexpensive price in clubs like Arabella / Venus / Grimberg and are prepared (generally speaking) to accept lesser looking women in order to achieve these benefits. Some of us do not want bareback (or know how to get same in the mega-clubs) and are either not needing excessive couch-time with these girls (because they are hookers and not girlfriends) or are prepared (or have the budget) to pay for same. Also do not automatically assume that couch-time is not available to well known customers particularly during quieter days. IMO it comes down to this; you are prepared (sometimes) to accept lesser looks in return for a lesser fee and bareback / couch-time. Others (like myself) are prepared to pay a bit more for good looks extra services and better facilities. The above statements are generally speaking and I am aware that there are exceptions applicable to all of the above statements.

I wish you well.

CD[/QUOTE]So, basically, we agree.

Those clubs offer different services than those other big ones. And it is nice to have a choice.

For years, ignoring even the existence of those "cheap" NRW clubs, I used to go to all the big ones, in the FRA area, plus Artemis, Colosseum etc. I started to get tired of those, especially as I became older, and finding it difficult to cum inside with a condom. Which meant that I had to pay at least 100 if not more per session, just to COB, and this after hard negociation in the middle of the act. I am not going to VV or similar places for AO, but for the relaxing, non-sharked, all included atmosphere

But what you say is right, if one wants a large choice of optifucks, with uncertain quality of services, and no extras, big clubs are better.

Again, to each his own, and thanks to those in this forum who exposes only facts, without judgment, leaving each reader to decide for himself.

CD,

Everything you say is correct and I agree. Everybody got their own opinion and preferences.

I express my points:

Precisely because these clubs can be quite boring, I need and enjoy some "company", not because I want or I look for grilfriends, and surely a female company is better than a male one. Also, I guess we don't go in clubs to approach men, LOL!

Especially in these small clubs, punters stay on their own, are normally quite older than me and don't look too keen on conversations, probably many can speak only german. If there was a big garden or a pool it wouldn't make that difference to me, maybe a table tennis or football table would, but still I would have to find someone to join me. Wi-fi would be good, but, agreeable or not, I don't travel to go in clubs where I'm surrounded by naked women ready to do anything (or a bit less than anything if the club is not AO) to play table tennis or surf the net. I go, shoot my bullets, fill the recharging time as well as I can but still exhaminating the girls' looks and behaviours and then leave, unless I get entertained in conversations. 4-5 hours are normally even too many for me, in any case.

That's why I also avoid Club Angelique, the smallest of those I have visited: not only because it is more expensive, but because girls will not give me any extra time, nor before not after. They stay in a personnel room and they normally come out when the bell rings. Once a choice is made, or you make it clear you are not going to the room in the following 2 minutes, they go back in there or anyway sit at a "safety distance".

I can command, at different levels, but even the lowest is well more than decent. 4 languages and I bothered to learn little Romanian, girls appreciate it a lot, they are favourably impressed, which gives me a further edge. I know nothing of bulgarian and pratically nothing of german, which is why I prefer to avoid zimmering bulgarians,"if I can". Anyway, when I defined a probable cold session the one I could have had with the bulgarian girl in VV and the one I had in Arabella, I compared them to what I could expect with a girl I can talk to. I would have given a good score to Nadja's session, in a different context or place: she carried out the task efficiently, without sparing any energy, without any hassle.

However, personally speaking, I go in clubs for the girls, I don't care too much about environments and facilities, I couldn't stay too many hours anyway. The only times I did that, in Oase and World, it was because I was with a pal, but I found it heavy and boring anyway, and kept tampering him for leaving after 4-5 hours, he wanted to stay until closing time!

I know food is pratically inexistent, I eat before and after. I don't care about drinks, saunas, furnitures, roman columns or red carpets, crystal chandeliers or simple bulbs, marbles or stones. I want to have peace of mind, nice time and, most important, sexual satisfaction, I could do that even in a cave or in the woods (done it, LOL!).

I know more or less what to expect in these minor clubs, that's why I phoned in advance checking for safety nets. I sacrifice beauty for service, not really for the money, even if I don't even want to try to imagine how much an Artemis stunner would ask for an AO session, maybe with CIA. Anyway normally at least a couple of girls outstand the other ones (I don't need to shoot 8) and they could compete in better clubs. In my described last VV visit there was one only, I took her twice and was happy.

If prices of VV and Oase were the same, or even Oase cheaper, maybe out of 10 trips I could fly once, max twice for Burgholzausen, but I guess the following day (if not the same one) I would head to Dietzenbach or NRW, as I already did in the mentioned accompanied trip.

Mind you, I consider beauty very important, but that is not all and may not be enough, on the contrary it would upset me a lot to be fished by a shark or to session with a stunner without unloading.

Anyway, tastes are tastes, but normally in AO clubs I have been with girls who were at least reasonably fuckable (honestly it has happened that it took a little effort) , no unfuckable ones, the "worst" ones anyway compensated with the service. AOing alone makes a big difference, but of course I'm not going to fuck a cow. Also, some of them were very fuckable: I'm quite sure that if you saw VV's Laura dressed and not smiling too much among the other girls outside before Oase's opening time you would consider sessioning with her, but even naked you'd give her a look, especially if you saw her from behind.

Furthermore, a few of the "very fuckable" ones told me that they moved (or stay) in these clubs from the normal and bigger ones because they work much more, let's hope more will follow. In big clubs they have great competition in quality and quantity, maybe they make 4 customers in one day, while in RTC clubs they can make even 15-20. Yes, I know, it's extremely riskier, but this is another issue.

Just my opinion

[QUOTE=EastGoing; 1547256]That's why I also avoid Club Angelique, the smallest of those I have visited: not only because it is more expensive, but because girls will not give me any extra time, nor before not after. They stay in a personnel room and they normally come out when the bell rings. Once a choice is made, or you make it clear you are not going to the room in the following 2 minutes, they go back in there or anyway sit at a "safety distance".

While it's true that many times the girls don't all hang around the main reception room, I have been there when the girls were dancing to the music, and generally at least some girls are in the main reception room most times. Also, once you make your selection, you can go to the glass-enclosed room (I think it's the smoking area) and make out for a while with the girl before going to have sex (I also made out with Kathi on the couch in the main reception room and nobody batted an eye).

I agree with JB. Most of the time the girls are in the main reception room. Last time Vanessa danced a bit (and I had a wonderful view on her perfect tits). And with Kathi you can have a lot of couch kissing, even if I am growing tired of her. If you play it "safe" and if you go to CA on a Sunday or on a Tuesday, for 70 € you can have one hour with a hot girl willing to please. Most of the girls are really better looking than in VV.

Too bad that last time with Lisa at the reception, I had to pay for some overtime even if I looked at my watch and I'm pretty sure it was for 5 minutes maximum.

I always go on Sundays or Tuesdays. Still not really a club for extended stay, but you can have a lot of couch time with Kathi. Especially if you are early, almost half an hour yesterday. I do notice that with other girls it can be a bit more straight forward, with Alice for instance I usually have no couch time at all. She is quitting on the 9th of April BTW, so if you have to hurry if you want to say goodbye (had a nice farewell session yesterday as well). There is really no comparison with the RTC clubs, service is similar but much better looking girls in Angelique.

I'm always a bit suspicious about the time, since with showering and cleaning up we are typically a few minutes over the (half) hour. Thusfar it had always been handled beautifully (IE the room time).

Good for you guys.

I was there twice, last summer, and I said just what happened to me. I remember Alice, working also as TF, looking badly and calling back one of the girls I was trying to talk to because it was clear I wasn't going to session or anyway not with her. Again, each of us can receive different treatment for different reasons.

I agree that girls are better looking than RTCs (it doesn't take that much) , at least in average, surely in this period. I'm not so sure about the service being the same, in quality. And sessions are 20 mins, no? I may go and check out.

Why is Alice quitting? Not because of some disease, eh?

70 euro for 1 hour? Not AO I suppose.

BTW, did any of you get AO in the room, as a "bonus" or with an "undeclared" payment?

on the last day of my blitz i had a few doubts about the destination. i would have liked to try a place new to me: romantica, anubis, verena, i considered love factory too. but pics i could find on internet were not encouraging, i couldn't see safety nets and i've noticed that posts in german threads are often too "enthusiastic", speaking of the girls i've seen by my own eyes, maybe because they are written by resident old lads who can be happy with very little, optically speaking. also, the trips would have been longer and a bit more difficult. i wasn't keen on returning to vv, because it probably would have meant, when summing up, that i had flied for laura, which of course i didn't. i wasn't keen either on arabella, where i would have taken raissa and elena, if she hasn't got fat, surely worth but both already met, and the last visit had left me a bit sad. i don't know if that was due to the near extinction of my beloved troops, to noticing that the survivors had turned overweight, to the dim lights (lol!) , or what else.

what about grimberg? i had been there only once, at least i knew the place and how to get there. i headed there thinking it wouldn't have been a good choice, a great day. if i hadn't been that happy at "home" and had had to take twice an old acquaintance in vv, what could i expect from a club i pratically never considered? i already said i don't like the fact that you can't keep an eye on what goes on because it is rep001tered into small rooms. i remembered also that there were no real outstanding girls, anyway i had checked german sites for help and phoned to ask about supposed safety nets.

worth noticing that if you arrive in gelsenkirchen hbf, the same strasserbahn, if i'm not mistaken 301, will take you to grimberg in one direction and to arabella (i considered that an additional safety net) in the opposite one, both cases take 7-8 stops.

so, you get off at the zoo, it's in front of you. you walk towards the right following its perimeter, then walk past the near church, follow the road and turn left to the intersection. i think from there you already see the number, 12, some 50 meters on the opposite side of the road. about 5 minutes walking.

i was opened the door by eva, a bulgarian girl i had already had in my previous trip. she recognized me, but we couldn't communicate. after going through the procedures, i started walking around. nothing special or new to report from the point of view of the place and its ambience, but the girls were cheerful and smiling, relaxed atmosphere. it didn't take long before i got in touch with famous lily. romanian, i think she's hardly 150 cm, slim, with a pretty face, funny, witty, nice, supposed to give great service. after a little smooching she asked me if i wanted a friend of hers to join us.

actually it was something i had set as an objective of this trip, together with cia (s) , i never had a 3some before (when i'm lucky we are two, lol!) , but i had always been expecting it to happen in arabella, or possibly in vv, not in grimberg. talking about last year, i had been always "scared" in bochum, they were already killing me one against one, what would have i done alone against two of those panthers? and what couple would i have chosen or found available? i was always postponing, and in vv i couldn't imagine myself between laura and aida, who was as tall as me but also proportionate on the strong built side. i would have ended up torn apart.

so, i thought the friend would have been katy, since i had already had her (good session by the way, but she was slimmer last year) and i knew they were friends, i asked who the candidate was before accepting. she called her, to my surprise that was another girl, i think micaela, pretty friendly smiling face, for the rest "a bit" chubby. ok, wtf, there are more beautiful girls in the club (!) than these two, but they sounded ok, i could easily communicate with both, they were very cheerful and a set couple, both young and perfectly kissable, maybe other girls wouldn't do 3somes or there could be other problems. also, since i was virgin, i would have felt less embarrassment than if i had sessioned with more beautiful and / or more aggressive girls. these two were young, seemed quite handy, respectful, obedient, pacific, they wouldn't have abused me nor forced me to do anything i wouldn't like. i didn't know where to start from, what to do, the only sure thing being i wouldn't daty any of those oversprayed pussies.

in the room things luckily went more or less as imagined. under my shy directions, they took very little initiative: one taking care of my dick and one of my mouth, then they swapped, then both performing oral. eventually i fucked both doggie while kissing the other one, they also kissed each other, a couple of pussy swappings and then i sprayed a bit in one mouth a bit in the other one, like in movies. they spitted. ok, i hadn't asked for swallowing, cum swapping or other stuff. there were about 10 minutes left, i tried to suggest to carry on, lily said it could be enough, i didn't insist.

then i got "hooked up" by 2 german guys, more or less my age, we had a nice time exchanging opinions and experiences, many laughters, when sitting on our own in the outside garden (it wasn't cold) and also sitting back in sofas inside with girls around. after a couple of hours we went back to action. i had already made gestures to angie that i would go with her eventually. i thought she was bulgarian, no chance to communicate, but she said she was also half romanian, good, funny for me and for her to have only romanian as "common" language. the girl is quite fuckable to my taste: slim, proportionate, not short, with cute angel face. she started offering me her asshole since walking to the room, and she insisted a lot, i still wonder why. i mean that, when girls ask to finish in their mouths rather than in their pussies, i suppose they don't want to go to wash their pizdas, but in this case i wouldn't know what to think. laura had asked me in both sessions to finish in her mouth, but i had managed to get her permission to finish where i was and i had kept her in the room with my, actually our, children swimming inside her.

so, after normal smooching, caressing, oral and vaginal sex, i triumphally finished ciaing. quite a good session, in my next trip she will be considered safety net number one in grimberg.

my colleagues were sweating in the sauna. katy, who had been quiet busy, recognized me and kindly wanted to talk to me, we had had very long couch time last year. i apologized i was going to leave very soon. when i was ready to go, she stood up from her couch to come to kiss me on my mouth. in the few metres from the counter to the exit, the 3 girls of that day came to accompany me and all of them mouthkissed me. wow. 4 in 5 metres, in less than a minute. when i was a youngster i would have dreamt such a thing.
when i was winning gold medals at wankers olympic games watching porn movies, i would have never thought that one day i could have done something similar. ok, i hadn't been with anita blonde, tera patrick or jenna jameson, i hadn't performed great stuff, but i would have killed for much less in those days :-)
also, how many men in their life experience an uncovered 3some? even followed by a bareback all-holes-excursion with final cia...

that's all for now

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1547596]I'm not so sure about the service being the same, in quality. And sessions are 20 mins, no?[/QUOTE]20 min limit is only on all inclusive days.

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1547597]I've noticed that posts in german threads are often too "enthusiastic", speaking of the girls I've seen by my own eyes, maybe because they are written by resident old lads who can be happy with very little, optically speaking.[/QUOTE]Great TR EG!

I also wonder what on earth they see in some of the girls they rave about.

You should have tried out Romantika & Alina. Roxana (FloriatVV) atRomantika & Alina (Bianca VV) at Alina both provide good looks, nice bodies & great service. Not sure about public trans, but worth a try on your next visit.

[QUOTE=EastGoing; 1547596]Good for you guys.

I was there twice, last summer, and I said just what happened to me. I remember Alice, working also as TF, looking badly and calling back one of the girls I was trying to talk to because it was clear I wasn't going to session or anyway not with her. Again, each of us can receive different treatment for different reasons.

I agree that girls are better looking than RTCs (it doesn't take that much) , at least in average, surely in this period. I'm not so sure about the service being the same, in quality. And sessions are 20 mins, no? I may go and check out.

Why is Alice quitting? Not because of some disease, eh?

70 euro for 1 hour? Not AO I suppose.

BTW, did any of you get AO in the room, as a "bonus" or with an "undeclared" payment?[/QUOTE]Entrance 20 Euro. 30 Euro for 20 minutes. 50 Euro for 30 minutes. 80 Euro for 60 minutes. 10 Euro discount on 30 and 60 minute sessions on Sundays and Tuesdays. FKK day on Thursdays. AO 30 Euro extra, irrespective of session time. Never asked for or got a "bonus" AO and no girl has ever asked for it privately.

I just read again my old post of last summer, and I gave a look at freiercafe, google traslate helped enough. So I was remembering right, prices included (thanks JB). Maybe girls dance in the evening, or if there are a few men around. Anyway, there seem to be quite a few possible problems, at least from my point of view. A guy on freiercafe opened my eyes about anal, CIMs (Alice had refused it to me last year) , kissing, etc. It's not that clear who does what according to what, if I'll be asked for extras on top of AO, which, with the mentioned limitations, costs 30 euros more but you cannot finish inside if you take the shortest option. Even timekeeping could be a problem. It may be stressful, complicated and surely would cost 2-3 times what I would fork out in a RTC, even if it was a Tuesday. Girls in the overall maybe better, but I'll feel more comfortable in the other AO clubs. Taking one by one those I had seen, any of them could be working in RTC's, Alice being probably the best (but worst for attitude and service!) , they would have been in the cathegory of the "quietly fuckable". Let's say that watching photos portraying the whole team of those clubs, you would surely choose Angelique Club, but individually, they are not worth twice or more the ones I mentioned as outstanding, who have nothing to envy to them, if not the contrary. Some other ones can be at level, surely giving me a hassle free service.

So I'm afraid I won't be able to greet Alice, last year I had taken her just to blow me as a sort of "come on and just suck my dick, xxxxx " for annoying me and the girls I was trying to talk to. But I'm sure, by looking at her face and eyes, that she can give great sessions, but with me she wouldn't have done it anyway, I think.

Vito,

When I wrote "german threads" I actually meant german forums, but maybe you suggest somehow my statement could be applied also for the german threads here as well? LOL!

I posted my meeting with Bianca, last summer, not the one with Flori, last autumn, which was peaceful, quite plain, I wasn't that attracted. It's true that there is nothing wrong with her, nor phisically nor from any other point of view, but I wouldn't session again with her, she doesn't make me tick. I'm not 100% sure of where to go on my next trip, but probably you won't be surprised if I go again in the 3 I visited recently :-)

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1548419]I just read again my old post of last summer, and I gave a look at freiercafe, google traslate helped enough. So I was remembering right, prices included (thanks JB). Maybe girls dance in the evening, or if there are a few men around. Anyway, there seem to be quite a few possible problems, at least from my point of view. A guy on freiercafe opened my eyes about anal, CIMs (Alice had refused it to me last year) , kissing, etc. It's not that clear who does what according to what, if I'll be asked for extras on top of AO, which, with the mentioned limitations, costs 30 euros more but you cannot finish inside if you take the shortest option.[/QUOTE]When they danced I think I was the only guy around. Whenever I have been there (and I usually am there for at least 6 hours so I can do my three sessions) there is almost never more than one other guy there. The usual M. O. Is for a guy to walk in, look around, choose the girl and go to the room, unless he opts to go to the smoking area in the main reception room to make out first. There has never been one who hung out the whole I have been there.

Regarding extras, the first girl I had there a year ago told me anal was 100 Euro and CIM was 50 Euro, but I don't know if these are standard prices or her prices, since she tried to cheat me out of the Tuesday discount and did overcharge me 10 Euro for AO. However, DFK, BBBJ, DATY, and coming inside has always been included, and since I prefer CIP to CIM, I don't care if there is a CIM charge. I never take the 20 minute session, so I don't know anything about no CIP in a 20 minute session, but how is the girl going to prevent you from coming in her pussy when you're banging her?

[QUOTE=Jimmy Boy 99;1548670]but how is the girl going to prevent you from coming in her pussy when you're banging her?[/QUOTE]This question would work also for CIM. The difference is that in her pussy there are no teeth to punish you :-)
But still you could have annoying discussions or troubles which probably you don't look for, even if it was just paying a surcharge or making the girl not want to session with you anymore.

After being tempted by "greeting" Alice and trying the mentioned Kathy or some other girls new to me, I definitely made up my mind in not going back there. Not only because there will probably be an invasion of punters on the last discounted days of her stay, but because 50euros (or 40) for 30 mins + 30 for BB and limitations, traps, extras, unsureness about timekeeping, etc. Are more than good reasons to send me back where I'm used to or to try new clubs of the same kind where I can hopefully have the same peace of mind.

I was in VV last Saturday. The entrance is 10 euros only if you go during happy hour, which is 10-12am and I'm not sure if also after 8pm, otherwise 60 euros with a zimmer included and 30 all the following ones.
I entered and noticed a few new faces from my last visit, for the first time I wasn't noticing girls who were quite overweight, actually not slightly either. Not that the general beauty was blinding me, but the quick first-glance was better than usual, nothing too attractive but also nothing too repellent. I guess that visits in these clubs are case-sensitive, I mean that apart girls coming and going, you may also miss those who are on vacation or on day off, if you are not a frequent visitor. The atmosphere seemed more relaxed from my last visit, maybe because there was another TF, who could even speak some english, instead of Barbara, who keeps on firing girls, I heard.

After the usual procedures I came upstairs to analyze the new arrivals, but unexpectedly from my back I heard the call of a girl who should have been on another sofa. Yes, it was Laura, I willingly postponed searches and sacrified. For Captain Dan's curiosity, I noticed a missing tooth on the left upper arcade, but I couldn't tell if it was a new absence or it was already missing, I think I just forgot to mention it when I posted about her dental panoramic. We had only some 40 minutes couch time. Besides us there was a cheerful blonde playing and joking with a guy, she seemed very funny, with great attitude, nice body and an ok face, I thought she would easily have been the second target. I declared it to Laura, who seemed not to agree that much, shortly after we went to the room. No kissing, she didn't have a cold this time, I made an attempt with little intention, she didn't want to and I didn't mind, I was thinking of Captain Dan, LOL! What would have he thought?

It was not a great session, a bit mechanical, but still I like her enough to be glad anyway.

Then I had some boring time and a little chat with Magda, I had fucked her last year. I was sure she had recognized me, instead she seemed not to. She's a sweet girl, but nothing special, I had chosen her for "desperation", since the price structure was the one when you must declare as soon as you enter how many sessions you are going to have. If I'm not mistaken she does anal too.

I scanned potential preys, there were 2 good candidates, but I had set my mind on the blonde, the discovery of her nationality (bulgarian) and lack of common languages made me doubt a lot. Zero couch time, I told her "zimmer" straight away, before I changed my mind: she had impressed me when she was dealing with the other guy, I rather blondes even if evidently fake and phisically she was ok, just slightly "dried off" boobs (something common in VV, at least in this visit, is it some sort of virus or a requirement to work there?). I wanted to challenge my luck... and I lost, as usual: no communication, no fun, just mechanical action. Was that Vicky, the girl I had admired a couple of hours before?
I got out of the room willingly, promising myself that I wouldn't session anymore with a girl I couldn't speak with, unless she was utterly better than her competitors.

I left the club after about 3 hours, not satisfied, I should have tried at least one of the other 2 new girls I had noticed, whose names I think were Sissy and Sara or Sandra, both romanians. I will, if I see them next time...

On Sunday my initial plan was to visit Villa Romantica, something I wanted to do anyway, if not that day at least in this trip. For a second I considered Angelique Club, then I thought about returning to VV to try the 2 girls I had missed the day before. But in the end Arabella was my choice, I already had made an effort, an exception, not going there as soon as I had landed, I had betrayed for VV.

TF would have been Anna, very nice, english speaking, lot of time I didn't see her.

The door was opened by a pretty, young, slim, new Romanian girl, Alexandra. I stared at her in astonishment, she laughed but didn't try to hook me up instantly, probably because she's still "naive", also probably because she was surprised by my reaction of incredulity and because, after stepping in, I was assaulted by Raissa, who managed to quickly "extort" me the committment for zimmer fractions of seconds before I received the hugs of Gaby and Denise. WTF, so nice to be back "home".

I finally managed to cover the hardly 3 meters from the entrance to the counter and greeted Anna. The other customers were smiling and laughing for the welcome I had been given, they were sitting alone on empty couches, I had 4 chicks around me and I couldn't move :-) The scene from outside must have been really funny, they were sincerely enjoying it, they were nor disappointed nor envious, just amused, actually it was me envying their peace. Maybe because I look young (and behave even more "youngishly") , wherever I go girls often trespass certain limits of respect and confidence, feeling allowed to take approaches and initiatives, and in Arabella this can happen beyond "decency". I hadn't had a look around yet, and I already had had to declare that I couldn't have gone with all of them. They were just the first 4 I've met just entering, what if there had been other candidates, maybe other new valid girls? Before going to get changed, I tried to tell Raissa not to wait for me, but when I came back upstairs she literally jumped on me, she had been diabolically waiting for me by the entrance, on top of the stairs. We landed on a couch, I opened my mouth like to yell or say something and... got her tongue down my throat. I surrendered to the power of "love", LOL!

Once again, I could notice the envies, the rivalries that there are in clubs: about customers' choices,"stealing" from colleagues, expected interventions of TF, etc. In Arabella, maybe because it is small, with a "familiar" atmosphere, or maybe because it's the place I frequent more and with the highest "interaction", I always notice, feel, even hear at times, the "consequences" of choices customers make. Many times girls spoke to me about "that b*t*h", referring to some other girls, guilty of being too "active", too "enterprising", unrespectful of rules, priorities and "properties" ("that guy is my customer and she stole him"). I even heard more than once alleged charges of "that girl" having diseases or going with too many men daily (which would increase her chances to catch something) , as if that could make a difference in such clubs with such promiscuity. Bah.

In the room we had a great GFE session, this time she wasn't in a hurry, maybe also because something "strange" happened. My offspring flowed into her, but she didn't realize it, less than 10 minutes left. Ok, having orgasms daily and repeatedly will not make you squirt litres, but still it had never happened to me that an AO girl wouldn't feel the unloading. I carried on a little bit after changing position and playing her a little, just to overcome the post-orgasm sensitiveness of my dick. We both gave a look to the watches, she was worried time would run out without me finishing, I "reassured" her that Anna wouldn't tell her off for staying longer with me, but I forgot other girls may, and this time surely would. Or she just wanted to go, we had already stayed too long for her standards? You should have seen her face and her reaction when I told her that I was done, giving her "evidence": I fingered her pussy, then showed her and made her smell the fluids. I must say that the cocktail of our juices smelt great, LOL! She jumped out of bed and got ready to leave the room like if there had been a bomb ticking, LOL, while discussing this unusual thing.

Back in the hall, I had to face a fierce court processing me for going twice consecutive (last girl of my last visit and first one of that day) with the same girl, furthermore with the aggravating circumstance that she wasn't an "old glory". I have noticed, also in other clubs, that these girls have an incredible memory, remembering who has gone with whom, when, how many times, in what order, etc. Do they take notes? Even girls I had never been with and a couple of new ones (!) complained, who more kindly who less, about my choice because I should vary! Gina, a too "lively" girl new to me, took plenty of "risky freedom" with me: even if I could tolerate her behaviour, TF could kick her out, since some other customers and girls were not enjoying her jumping on me, harassing me noisily, etc. Apart from her, I thought the matter was a joke, but somebody was really serious. The fact that I also declared that the mentioned Alexandra would have been the second and last target didn't help soothing the atmosphere.

BTW, I got informed that Elena should be on holiday, but she's lost in space since long time and therefore not expected back. What a great loss! She had such a body and was so pretty, maybe she realized she was wasted in such clubs for so little money per session, even if surely she was the most zimmered girl of the club. Stefania left the club, while sweet Nicole has been sent away because in last times she wasn't making more than 2-3 rooms a day. I was told she should be in Romantica too, which seems to host all the refugees of the other older clubs. Pratically going there would basically mean to meet some girls I already know, just in a different environment, which made me decide to further postpone my debut over there.

For the first time, nobody accompanied me to the exit (the 2 honeys of that day were busy) , anyway, once again it was a matter of catching the right day, the crew was much better than my last visit and, as usual, I will go back to Arabella willingly in my future trips. Whoever is there and whatever happens, at least I'm sure I will not have boring time, LOL!

Returned to her after a three year gap. Made four sessions with her and just loved her crazy enthusiasm. Where else can one get a session including enthusiastic anal and public sex for 30 euros a shot. She is of course the most popular girl there, with other customers doing repeat sessions with her. She was really worth the trip. Not sure about the soundness of her politics but I didn't encourage that. Highly recommended.

Went with another girl also but that was just average for one of these clubs

I will be making my 2nd trip to NRW region and was wondering if the girls are available to take back to your hotel? My last visit I made a connection with a girl and was too shy to ask. Is this possible, and if so, what is the usual cost? Does it have to be at a certain time? Are girls allowed to do this on their day off?

Thanks!

[QUOTE=BuffaloJunk; 1554896]I will be making my 2nd trip to NRW region and was wondering if the girls are available to take back to your hotel? My last visit I made a connection with a girl and was too shy to ask. Is this possible, and if so, what is the usual cost? Does it have to be at a certain time? Are girls allowed to do this on their day off?

Thanks![/QUOTE]I assume you are talking about the girls working in these clubs, not in NRW generally.

First of all, these clubs open at 10 o'clock in the morning and close at 23 (even later if they are busy) , on fri and sat at midnight. Normally girls are supposed to stay from opening until closing, it's not like in normal FKKs where you have shifts, day and night. So not much spare time left, no? Your only chance is the only day off they take in the week.

Second, it is absolutely forbidden to exchange numbers and / or meet outside, since the club would lose your entrance fee and the girl's entrance fee of that day, which should be 80 euros in total. There is not "bar fine" like in Thailand and Philippines.

Of course in the room you are alone and you can do and say what you want. If you do it, expect about 100 euros per hour, of course it will be difficult for the girl to accept only 1 or 2 hours. Transportation costs to be discussed and maybe the time necessary to join you could count too.
In the club it would be much cheaper and more worth it, since normally you pay only for the room and not for couch or recovery time. I must have understood that some customers pay also for extended couch time, but I don't know how it works, I always got it free. I know that, even if you are going to make 2 consecutive sessions with the same girl, you have to come out of the room, even only for 5 minutes, otherwise you will be charged 120 euros for one hour (instead of the normal 60), couch time will not be considered for that calculation.
However, it's up to the girl, it depends also on distances, on their "boyfriends", etc. In general, anyway, you'd better stay in the club and session with her repeatedly. As you can read, Optimist took Angie 4 times!

I'll soon post my recent Grimberg visit.

P.S. You wrote you already visited once. Where are your reports?

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1555274]Second, it is absolutely forbidden to exchange numbers and / or meet outside, since the club would lose your entrance fee and the girl's entrance fee of that day, which should be 80 euros in total.[/QUOTE]My understanding of the club system in Germany is they are 'legal' since they charge 'everyone' for entrance, basically 'what goes on between two consenting adults' concept. The girls aren't 'employee's' of the club, they are 'guests'. So there shouldn't be any club interference with two consenting adults seeing each other outside the club. If the club does anything to either of the parties involved (assuming numbers were exchanged, they met outside the club and the club found out about the meeting) , would the club be risking their 'third party' status with the authorities?

Buffalo Junk. As Breadman says, the club cannot stop this happening; the girls are all self-employed. The girl may in certain circumstances be reluctant (personal code of ethics, pressure from club owners, domestic circumstances, boyfriends, safety concerns). The longer you have known the girl the cheaper it is likely to be. Top prices asked seem to be 1000 euro a day, which to my mind is a rip-off. Lowest price if you know a girl can be short (over a cup of coffee) meetings for free or 250 euro for a weekend at which point you are no longer in a business relationship). If you only want a short time then you would probably have to do it on her day off, when they are usually reluctant to work. In short, it all depends on you and the girl

As Eastgoing says, it sounds that repeat session in a club may work out cheaper and better. Unless you are after a personal relationship

Yes, but we also know that this is less clear cut as you guys describe. In the RTCs they kick girls out all the time, in Dietzenbach (and sometimes Venus) you are not allowed to go with the same girl twice. Hourlong sessions are overpriced. All things that is bad for the girl you are interested in. If the clubs says: "meet up with a man outside and we kick you out", there is nothing anyone can do.

Breadman and Optimist,

I speak out of what I personally know and what I see or I'm told, the latter could be mistaken or even false, but I hope you'll believe what I can write out of my personal experience.

I think what you say applies to normal FKKs, bigger ones, not AO, with many girls, who come and go probably when they want or anyway with more freedom. If 1 or 10 girls don't pop up in Oase, or arrive late, probably it will not be a problem, nor for them nor for the club. If this happens in Grimberg, where on my last visit I found only 10 girls, it would be a disaster.

I know girls are (supposed to be) self-employed, but in RTCs this is "less true". As I wrote about Elena in Arabella, you can consider her an ex, because she's been away too long and without giving info, which probably means that if she goes there tomorrow they will not let her in anyway.

I can tell you, by personal experience, that it can happen that girls with menstruations are "called" and "asked" to work anyway (in an AO club!) because the club that day is short-staffed or maybe it is a weekend day, otherwise... you guess it, yes?

If you read well through the lines, you'll understand I know what I talk about, amounts and figures included. As we all know, not everything is postable. I don't post many things that, luckily or not, I come or have come across, not to damage girls. I don't lie, but I withhold a lot, I'm sure I'm not the only one. I just post easy surface stuff, I don't post about facts and / or girls I reckon it is better not to make public, especially in their own interest.

I personally know little about normal FKKs, I've been too few times, but I've read a lot, things make sense. I'd dare to say that AO clubs are a world apart, many things don't make much sense, starting from the fact that you can get AO (LOL!): the matter of double price for one hour consecutive; the fact that sometimes you can't session twice with the same girl; the number of hours they have to stay there; the fact of having to work with menstruation and even if they don't feel well, etc. Once I sessioned with a girl whose pussy I could hardly penetrate because she had pains for fucking too much and also with a guy who broke her down with his big dick. She was new, in the business and in the club, she was afraid to refuse customers or leave, what a situation, I felt so sorry for her!

These little clubs can host a limited number of girls, and they want girls who make many zimmers a day. Nicole, who worked in Arabella for more than one year, was sent away because in the last 1-2 months was making only 2-3 zimmers a day, I guess they even took too long to show her the door, probably because she was a "veteran". Girls who make many rooms are allowed some more freedom, little rule-breaking, zimmer time, etc. Barbara, TF in VV, has recently established a sort of reign of terror, next time I go there I expect to see many other changes in the staff, maybe that is also due to availability of girls willing to work, for one who goes 2-3 go and ask, falling in line.

About the clubs being third party, well, I think they can refuse admittance, both to a customer, maybe slightly more problematic, and to a girl.

BTW, I remember reading in the past that in Arabella "coloured men" were not admitted. Last week I saw a sort of indian, maybe paki. 50+ years old.

Just my 2 cents

Most clubs want girls and boys to visit the club and pay the Entrance. That's their business model. So if you meet a girl outside the club will lose money. Therefore they don't want you to meet outside. That results into some kind of action taken by the club. Some clubs are very strict and will throw the girl out (e. G. Artemis, RTC clubs and even Oase, if you didn't pay the "bar fine" of 130€).

HB

Forget all the legal crap. Maybe the club cannot legally stop the girl from seeing a client in private. I know for sure if the club finds out, the girl will be black listed from all the RTC clubs. 95% of these women would not survive in a SC of FKK. Take away the RTC's & they are stuck with the all inclusive, red light, Oppumer strasse & etc?

Exchanging & arranging take out is easy, but must be done discretely (in the room & etc). The girl will basically threaten to gouge your eyes out if you mention this to anyone. There are other issues that Easy Going has mentioned that should be kept off a public forum.

There are some top of the line hotties that have told the club they are going back home or whatever & tried the SC's & FKK's. Some make it & survive, most return to the RTC. The prefer not to burn the bridge so they can return.

Yes, what VC, EG, HB say is I know correct. A club may stop a girl working, even though she is self-employed technically. When I was saying that a club cannot stop it what I meant is that a discreet arrangement is possible without the club knowing, but it would need to fit in with her work schedules and personal pressures. As EG says, the bigger the club the easier to arrange

Ok, guys, let's go back to field reports, we all know enough what is like and what we can do in clubs we frequent. We are risking to confuse a guy who posted 9 "reports" in 9 years and was somewhere in NRW (without reporting) , so he has gained some experience.

To continue this discussion, perhaps we could move to German AO Lounge and Chat Area. Our supreme master SwingerLover opened it but it stays unused.

I just hope I didn't say anything too bad, I didn't mention any name of clubs or girls in the issues I think Vito was referring to, of course I don't mean to disclose things that a guy carrying such a nickname doesn't want to be known, LOL!

So, I went to Grimberg and was... unwelcomed by a young chubby fake blonde TF who could well mingle in the crew, but she still wouldn't make many zimmers. I just asked her if she could speak english, she answered in english "this is not the first time you come here" and carried on in german, babbling and gesturing quite unpleasantly. I was to leave, when I saw one of the 2 guys I had met on my last visit and decided to stay, his companionship alone is worth the entrance, really a happy coincidence to meet him again.

Girls were only 10, half of them busy. I noticed one only new face, for the rest nothing particularly interesting. Actually the new face wasn't that bad, but my friend told me to avoid her because of bad rushed service and hurry to leave. Another candidate was the other fake blonde (the other one is Angie) , both couldn't have been chosen for not having common languages with me.

Angie was pointing at me like a hound. She says that we have sessioned already somewhere else, I'm sure she's mistaken. I would have remembered her, if not else by the way she goes around begging customers to fuck her in the ass. Even after she's been chosen for zimmering, she still insists for that. Mind you, it's not upselling, that's included in the fare! Really a sort of literally horny b*t*h, with 2 legs only! Anyway being aware of the memory of these girls leaves me with a small doubt.

She made me promise her I would fuck her in the ass, but I..."unintentionally" cheated her, LOL! After normal procedures, I was fucking her and was happy in that hole, but my good heart wanted me to keep my word and please her, so I thought I would just switch for finishing. When I felt I was close to the end I stopped, but she started moving savagely and I couldn't hold my load. Sorry! She pouted a little, but forgave me :-)

Second session was with Lily, this time I took her alone. What Mother Nature didn't give her in height, gave her in the rest: a brilliant, smart, intelligent, funny, simply extraordinary girl, providing a great PSE-GFE experience at the same time. If you are not too picky about bodies, I would strongly recommend her. She's not beautiful but definitely not ugly, let's say average if not above, has a nice smile and a kissable (I don't find Angie that kissable) small mouth capable of hosting dicks bigger than her face, she has a proportionate body with tender little boobs, no fat, no cellulitis, she just should be a few inches taller.

It was a nice stay, even if I couldn't test anything new, those 2 girls are an easy safety net, and my friend compensated abundantly the bad start with TF.

Finally, I must make a correction about what I had posted for public transport: from Gelsenkirchen hbf to Arabella you need strasserbahn 302, the rest is correct.

Hi guys. Thank's for your contributions.

I'm in the area in end of May and wish to try AO scene. I'm quite experienced in our hobby, but new with AO. I accept the risk, and I really look forward to a lot of CIP. I just want to have som wisdom about HOW big the risk may be.

For you experienced AO mongers: how often have you got STDs from the AO-girls? Two-three times a year? Every fourth, fifth or sixth girl? Please enlighten us with your experiences.

chr.

All the girls in Dietzenbach have to have a biweekly medical check up. If there is any slightest sign or doubt that a guy caught something in the club ALL the girls immediately have to see a doctor. Guess that's similar to the sister clubs on NRW.

HB

Two AO-trips, two (actually 3) std's, so either I'm really unlucky, either the risk is rather big.

Last 2, 5 years I have been to around 10 AO-gangbangs in Germany (example Spermagames) , many other AO-clubs, BB-fucked 10-15 girls both in Thailand and Brazil. I go to doctor 2-3 times a year and I have 0 STD. But I do take Zitromax 2 times a year just to "clear the system". I take 1000mg first day and day 2-5 I take 250mg. It works fine for me.

M-Exclusive gone downhill, not worth the effort, nor the gas.

I made this club M-Exclusive, location in Dulmen-Buldern. My previous visit was 6 month ago. I can safely say that this club has gone downhill, a really big change compared to last year. I should guess that before visiting, they also changed their second instalement (Near Osnabruck) into a partytreff, already. And I think this club also either will die or will turn into a cheaper partytreff or something similar.

Even it was a Saturday evening, there were only a few customers and only 9 girls. I couldn't guess the current situation and opted for 3 sessions 90 Euro.

All girls are Romanian and Bulgarians. The only good looking girl was Rubi.

First session Roxanna, tall, fake blond. Doesn't kiss good, don't do CIM. Wasted in hand.

Second session with Rubi. Still best looking girl and quite fun session but I finish quickly.

Third session with Bulgarian Denise, good body but rest a total waist of time.

I wish I should spend all my three shots with Rubi. And if I knew the current condition of this club, I wish I didn't visit iy. Not worth the money, the gas nor the effort to drive from Dusseldorf. There are a bunch of better RTC options spread in NRW-Ruhr area.

[QUOTE=Hrchrister; 1559759]Hi guys. Thank's for your contributions.

I'm in the area in end of May and wish to try AO scene. I'm quite experienced in our hobby, but new with AO. I accept the risk, and I really look forward to a lot of CIP. I just want to have som wisdom about HOW big the risk may be.

For you experienced AO mongers: how often have you got STDs from the AO-girls? Two-three times a year? Every fourth, fifth or sixth girl? Please enlighten us with your experiences.

Chr.[/QUOTE]Personnally, when I started, it was 2 or 3 times a year against 1 every two years with condoms. So I would say 1 out of 10 or 20.

It depends of your natural resistance.

Last time I read a few reports on german and here forums telling they also catched something. The girl I suspect gave signs of something. I was sure she was sick, but did not know what. Finally was off for 3 months after 2 or 3 weeks still working. It tooks me months to go back to the club.

Since then, I buy antibiotics on internet and take them two days before until last day: 0. I avoid obviously dirty places.

Do not thrust too much that girls are checked regularly. Same as condom girls. In more than ten years, not one girl showed me results from test and all were quite surprised when I showed mine and lost when I ask hers in return. Even with 'regulars', with whom I repeat asking.

I'm not a doctor, but I don't see the point of taking antibiotics before and during the permanence, according to my little knowledges and to what I'm told. I asked even a couple of urologists, on top of family doctor, they told me not to. I don't think antibiotics work like a vaccine, as far as I know one shouldn't use them unless they are really necessary, which is after you get something. Even when I get a stupid strong throatache or diarrhea, doctors (maybe in my area they are not that good, but all of them follow the same path) wait to give me antibiotics, and if I don't have fever they wait even longer, because they say that I might strengthen some bacterias, that my body wouldn't react well the following time, when I really need them, because I already used them for nothing. They say it is like shooting a fly with a bazooka.

A clever thing you can do, I did it this winter, if you want to attend these clubs for kamikazes, is to get vaccinated against hepatitis B. They told me that basically 2 viruses can kill me, since nothing can be done against the famous one, at least I will avoid the other one. The rest, more or less, can be hopefully cured, with patience, luck and time.

What "official results" is concerned; it is very possible the girls just don't get these from the doctor or sexual health clinic. When I get tested (for free I might add) I just get a text message that everything is fine (if not, I would get a text to contact the office). Treatment for things like gonorrhea and chlamydia are also free BTW. I've never gotten any piece of paper that showed my 'health'. This is in the Netherlands, but the office also tests a lot of prostitutes.

Free Dude and Eastgoing. You are exactly right.

As for Hep B vaccinations. They generally work but if you are in middle age or over they do not always "take" so you will need a confirmation check to see if they have taken

i had posted a question in ao lounge and chat area, somehow it's being discussed here.

referring to tests, i agree they have little value by many points of view, basically because girls cannot have updated ones customer by customer and because diseases take some time, longer or shorter, to come out, whether with symptoms or without.

i don't have much faith in the tests that clubs and / or girls allegedly make (but don't show) : if a girl is there aoing, she will not have many concerns about herself or customers; the club just wants to make money; customers just want to do it, and the fact that the very most of punters i see are very old (therefore more careless about health, future and life than a 20 year old guy) doesn't reassure me.

personally, since i feel little or nothing with condoms, i do it because... i wonder how can these clubs exist, how is it possible that girls accept to work like that, how is it possible that men go there, how is it possible that it's legal. since all these things happen, since quiet a few years, it means that actually it can be done, it must be possible, perhaps it is not that easy to catch the diseases and / or maybe the system works (tests work and are reliable) , i mean... i read posts in german forums of fellas going there every week, how can they? i personally have spoken to fellas who say they've been doing it without problems for years, maybe not all of them are sincere, but girls stay there every day for several months consecutive, depending on what kind of disease they may have, they would be phisically impaired, if a pussy is in pain for some reason, the girl will not be able to fuck.

if really it was so easy to catch something in these clubs, there should be epidemics, especially in nrw, authorities would shut down these clubs.

so i say to myself: "why should you be the one?" last year i had got fucking prostatitis, i was given randomly different kinds of antibiotics, i "forced" doctors to give me whatever, they didn't want to give me anything because i was always coming out clean from all tests: blood, [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109][CodeWord109][/url], sperm, even fucking urethral tampon (which i don't wish any of you to try) , so they said that antibiotics were pointless since there was nothing to fight. eventually it was supposed that, since i've been active nearly every day for many years, the fact of having an average of about 3 girls a day for 8 days on top of my "normal" activity was too tiring for my prostate, which is already well damaged and much "older than me", that's why probably it got inflamed, that is why now my trips are shorter and in clubs i have only 2 sessions a day, even if my next trip is 8 days again...

back to tests, keeping in mind what i said above, i reckon that still could be of help if they were asked and shown, both girls' and customers', psychologically one would feel safer, at least it may cut out criminal sick guys willing to spread.

one more "stupid" absurd feeling i have which doesn't make sense: i feel safer barebacking in clubs, where girls have maybe 20 men daily, for the reasons i exposed above, than i would feel in barebacking a girl outside, a girl who may be barebacking much less, maybe with just a few men once in a while, but since i don't have the illusion of tests, controls and other guys around, i'm scared.

last night i barebacked intentionally, knowingly, agreeing it (i mean that it didn't happen because the condom broke) for the first time a sw. a few months ago i had done it a few times with a girl working in a private flat, where at least she could wash and i could have a look at her pussy and finger it, inside a car in a parking lot of course conditions are different. today i'm more worried than after an entire trip in nrw, lol!

the confession is over, father forgive me (also for my silliness)

p. s. optimist, thanks for your clarification about vaccination, i hadn't understood that when i did it. so far i had two injections, third and last one will be in summer, but i understood i'm already covered

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1561284]I'm not a doctor, but I don't see the point of taking antibiotics before and during the permanence, according to my little knowledges and to what I'm told.[/QUOTE]When I catch little things, doctors gave me always the same pills, so I take them before meeting the problem.

Explain why 'we' give tons of antibiotics to healthy chickens, cows, salmons, and others? Or ask your urologist.

Taking them always is probably (surely) stupid. But when you know you are going to expose yourself to the danger, I think it can be clever.

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1561284]A clever thing you can do, I did it this winter, if you want to attend these clubs for kamikazes, is to get vaccinated against hepatitis B.[/QUOTE]My doctor did it to me two years ago, and I test the validity every year, as he recommends. He recommends also at best not having sex outside marriage.

I don't think guys here are in this kind of thinking, even if some are telling it or things like this. Guys who are afraid are first afraid to be catched by their familly or society.

[QUOTE=EastGoing; 1561284]I'm not a doctor, but I don't see the point of taking antibiotics before and during the permanence, according to my little knowledges and to what I'm told. I asked even a couple of urologists, on top of family doctor, they told me not to. I don't think antibiotics work like a vaccine, as far as I know one shouldn't use them unless they are really necessary, which is after you get something. Even when I get a stupid strong throatache or diarrhea, doctors (maybe in my area they are not that good, but all of them follow the same path) wait to give me antibiotics, and if I don't have fever they wait even longer, because they say that I might strengthen some bacterias, that my body wouldn't react well the following time, when I really need them, because I already used them for nothing. They say it is like shooting a fly with a bazooka.

A clever thing you can do, I did it this winter, if you want to attend these clubs for kamikazes, is to get vaccinated against hepatitis B. They told me that basically 2 viruses can kill me, since nothing can be done against the famous one, at least I will avoid the other one. The rest, more or less, can be hopefully cured, with patience, luck and time.[/QUOTE]I am sure everything you say is true. But all doctors are playing the same game: preventing global loss of efficacy of antibiotics by reducing their use, which is is a valuable thing to do for society as a whole, but far less useful for any given individual.

Let me explain: First, prophylactic antibiotherapy is widely recognised as necessary and vastly used in surgery, especially bone surgery. Same in dentistry. (you will get systemtically antibiotics after teeth extraction, whether you have infections or not, as an example.

With regards to the throat infections, yes, most of them are viral, so not sensitive to ABs, but most of them, when they last, become "surinfected" by bacteria, and then require ABs. I, a doctor, do prescribe ABs to my family when they have severe angina, not to cure the viral infection, but to prevent the much more painful bacterial infection which may follow. Basically it saves a few days of pain and discomfort, since you would anyway have to prescribe the ABs later.

Back to our topic, STDs: There are many acceptable ways of dealing with it: Such as waiting for symptoms and treat them, since in most of the cases this works fine. You can also, as some have suggested, if you are in a high risk behavior style, take treatment 1 day before you start, and keeo it till 2-3 days afterthe end of your tour. If you are a regular, say each week, perpetrator, then better wait for the symptoms and treat them, since you cannot take them all year long.

Last, about "letal" risks, hepatitis and Aids. Aids is not anymore letal. But it is a pain to have it, since treatments are heavy. Hepatitis is in most cases non letal, but can be. Here also treatments are available, but heavy as well, and not efficacious in all cases. Which justifies, in my opinion, vaccination.

At the end, it goes down to your own risk-benefit analysis.

[QUOTE=Hrchrister; 1559759]Hi guys. Thank's for your contributions.

I'm in the area in end of May and wish to try AO scene. I'm quite experienced in our hobby, but new with AO. I accept the risk, and I really look forward to a lot of CIP. I just want to have som wisdom about HOW big the risk may be.

For you experienced AO mongers: how often have you got STDs from the AO-girls? Two-three times a year? Every fourth, fifth or sixth girl? Please enlighten us with your experiences.

Chr.[/QUOTE]I have done nothing but AO for about 30 years, frequency about twice a week. Only once caught anything, gonorrhea, which was easily stamped out. My experiences range around the USA, Germany, UK, Spain, South America.

Unless a girl has visible sores, needle tracks, or is obviously gaunt and unhealthy looking there is not any way to assess the risk of catching an STD from her. If she or her environment is dirty and squalid that is a hint as to her general attitude, but only an indicator. The human race has been around a long time without condoms; only the last few decades have seen much use of them. You might very well die from sex; you will certainly die from something.

[QUOTE=Happy Fkk; 1561582]When I catch little things, doctors gave me always the same pills, so I take them before meeting the problem.

Explain why 'we' give tons of antibiotics to healthy chickens, cows, salmons, and others? Or ask your urologist.[/QUOTE]It would be interesting to know what you get and what medicines you take, for how long, etc. Remarkable that you get something every 2 years inspite of using condoms, and catching something 2-3 times a year without using condom would sound quite discouraging to me, unless you do it all year long (I assume you travel, so you don't do it all the time). About antibiotics to animals, of course men don't care about the health of them and worry just for business (a bit like in our clubs) , I don't think it is an example that suits this discussion.

[QUOTE=Dreams; 1561825]Back to our topic, STDs: There are many acceptable ways of dealing with it: Such as waiting for symptoms and treat them, since in most of the cases this works fine. You can also, as some have suggested, if you are in a high risk behavior style, take treatment 1 day before you start, and keeo it till 2-3 days afterthe end of your tour. If you are a regular, say each week, perpetrator, then better wait for the symptoms and treat them, since you cannot take them all year long.

Last, about "letal" risks, hepatitis and Aids. Aids is not anymore letal. But it is a pain to have it, since treatments are heavy. Hepatitis is in most cases non letal, but can be. Here also treatments are available, but heavy as well, and not efficacious in all cases. Which justifies, in my opinion, vaccination.

At the end, it goes down to your own risk-benefit analysis.[/QUOTE]As usual, I agree your statements. I would like to become a regular, I scheduled 3 trips in next 2 months. Last 2 trips were ok from the point of view of symptoms, of course I can't tell about big stuff since I don't even want to know it, until I feel ok for me it's fair enough. I rather "wait" and take pills eventually, if something pops up. About deadly or not deadly stuff, you are not likely at all to die from a toothache, but it can be hugely painful, I mean that even minor things can affect you a lot, for pains and annoyments.

[QUOTE=Seabreeze0003; 1561950]I have done nothing but AO for about 30 years, frequency about twice a week. Only once caught anything, gonorrhea, which was easily stamped out. My experiences range around the USA, Germany, UK, Spain, South America.

Unless a girl has visible sores, needle tracks, or is obviously gaunt and unhealthy looking there is not any way to assess the risk of catching an STD from her. If she or her environment is dirty and squalid that is a hint as to her general attitude, but only an indicator.[/QUOTE]With all the respect, I reckon you are very lucky.

You mentioned the environments. Well, these clubs, apart from the AOing matter, are not that clean: showers, beds, sheets, carpets, lockers. Probably somewhere else you wouldn't tolerate that low level, not to mention the towels, often stained, mostly with red stains, which I assume coming from the girls' pussies. You dry yourself with them, and wrap yourself inside them. I carry out extensive searches to find totally white ones, at times I think that I will be told off for "consuming" so many. Personally, I try not to mind those details, since I find ridiculous worrying about getting something dermatological in a context where I could catch something lethal, I mean that I would sign to get something that would heal with just a cream. In these clubs, I often have doubts when looking at girls. For instance, if they are too skinny, like VV's Larissa; the sight of VV's Maya's white pussy frightens me; I watch if they have teeth missing, how many, like Arabella's Carmen last year, who had more missing than not (VV's Laura misses "only" some 4, I think) ; in Grimberg on my last trip I noticed a sort of big patch, like in a muppet, on a leg of Angie; etc, but, as I said, obviously all those things are pointless when you go barebacking, even the healthiest looking person could have lethal stuff, so just make the sign of the cross and hope to be lucky.

[QUOTE=Dreams; 1561825]Back to our topic, STDs: You can also, as some have suggested, if you are in a high risk behavior style, take treatment 1 day before you start, and keep it till 2-3 days after the end of your tour. If you are a regular, say each week, perpetrator, then better wait for the symptoms and treat them, since you cannot take them all year long.

At the end, it goes down to your own risk-benefit analysis.[/QUOTE]Ok, but how do we know which pills to take for this "preventative" approach? Don't doctors prescribe different stuff based on the type of infection? In other words, what the heck kind of pills is one supposed to take and how many if one wanted to employ this "preventative" approach?

Also, I assume that if one wears a condom 100% of the time for vaginal sex (but receives BBBJ) , the recommended approach is probably to not employ such "preventative" antibacterial measures and to simply wait for symptoms to develop. I take it that the preventative measures would only make sense for those who do AO, correct?

Also, would it ever make sense to take some sort of antiviral thing to reduce the chances of contracting genital herpes?

[QUOTE=Seabreeze0003; 1561950]I have done nothing but AO for about 30 years, frequency about twice a week. Only once caught anything, gonorrhea, which was easily stamped out. My experiences range around the USA, Germany, UK, Spain, South America.

Unless a girl has visible sores, needle tracks, or is obviously gaunt and unhealthy looking there is not any way to assess the risk of catching an STD from her. If she or her environment is dirty and squalid that is a hint as to her general attitude, but only an indicator. The human race has been around a long time without condoms; only the last few decades have seen much use of them. You might very well die from sex; you will certainly die from something.[/QUOTE]Well.

I have treated in my life a few guys who drank 3 liters of beer a day, and never got liver cirrhosis, while I have also seen many who got it, drinking ten times less.

I would not draw any conclusion from any individual anecdotal experiences.

I am not at all discussing your experience, I am sure it is true, but just wish to warn others not to draw any conclusions from it.

In the mean time, continue to enjoy, and hopefully, for long!

[QUOTE=Ultrahappy; 1562036]Ok, but how do we know which pills to take for this "preventative" approach? Don't doctors prescribe different stuff based on the type of infection? In other words, what the heck kind of pills is one supposed to take and how many if one wanted to employ this "preventative" approach?

Also, I assume that if one wears a condom 100% of the time for vaginal sex (but receives BBBJ) , the recommended approach is probably to not employ such "preventative" antibacterial measures and to simply wait for symptoms to develop. I take it that the preventative measures would only make sense for those who do AO, correct?

Also, would it ever make sense to take some sort of antiviral thing to reduce the chances of contracting genital herpes?[/QUOTE]Answers:

"Common" STds can be treated by a simple combination of 2 Abs. Not a problem. Go to internet if you wish to know more.

Risk of catching STd with BBBJ is less than BBFS, but far from being negligible. If you are a regular consumer of BBBjs in different joints such those in Thailand and Japan, where girls service 20+ guys a day, you are likely to catch up sthg one day or the other. I personnally would recommend prohylaxy to someone who, for instance, would go to Thailand for a week or 2, and plan hitting the clubs 2-3 times a day for BBBjs (and even more for BBFS, of course.)

No drug has ever shown any eficacy in treating, let alone preventing, herpes. I think you are left without help here.

At the end of the day, I think that the worst fear with this is. Contaminating your regular partner, if you have one.

I don't, so I am pretty worryless. But when I was having a relationship, I was dead scared that I would pass anything, even minor, to her. At those time, my mongering activities were limited to everything being serioulsy covered. Now, well.

[QUOTE=Dreams; 1562172]Answers:

"Common" STds can be treated by a simple combination of 2 Abs. Not a problem. Go to internet if you wish to know more.

Risk of catching STd with BBBJ is less than BBFS, but far from being negligible. If you are a regular consumer of BBBjs in different joints such those in Thailand and Japan, where girls service 20+ guys a day, you are likely to catch up sthg one day or the other. I personnally would recommend prohylaxy to someone who, for instance, would go to Thailand for a week or 2, and plan hitting the clubs 2-3 times a day for BBBjs (and even more for BBFS, of course.)

No drug has ever shown any eficacy in treating, let alone preventing, herpes. I think you are left without help here.

At the end of the day, I think that the worst fear with this is. Contaminating your regular partner, if you have one.

I don't, so I am pretty worryless. But when I was having a relationship, I was dead scared that I would pass anything, even minor, to her. At those time, my mongering activities were limited to everything being serioulsy covered. Now, well.[/QUOTE]
At this point you could well post the name of the 2 antibiotics ;-) I must assume one is zitromax... I don't know what "sthg" is, would you please tell me?

About BBBJs, I got thousands since last millennium, by hundreds of girls from anywhere on earth, I never had anything I could realize. In 2007 I "officially" got a prostatitis, simultaneously with stones in my kidneys. I ended up in hospital, where I got my life's first echography of the apparatus. They said that my prostate had quite a few calcifications, resulting from many infections I had had (but never realized). They won't go away and of course they weaken the gland. This means that, even if one doesn't feel anything bad or wrong, he may still have something going on, which may heal on his own or not.

Going in AO clubs, you know girls can get some 20 men a day too, but you sound less scared than about a thai girl just blowing, maybe you share my "pointless point" of feeling safer in clubs because of tests? LOL!

About herpes, it can be treated with aciclovir and similar antiviral stuff. There are creams, of course with a low impact on it, and pills, with a much stronger effect. They will make bubbles go away, until next time. Cycles of months may be prescribed, if those pills are tolerated, in the hope that recurrences will not occur, or at least as less as possible. Once again, I reckon best thing is to take them only when your bubbles pop up

I noticed that the websites of these clubs do not have any photos with their available madams. There are only available in their reception. Do you know if there are any other websites where I can see their photos? I always prefer to have a look at girls' photos before visiting these clubs.

[QUOTE=Woodypussy1967;1564018]I noticed that the websites of these clubs do not have any photos with their available madams. There are only available in their reception. Do you know if there are any other websites where I can see their photos? I always prefer to have a look at girls' photos before visiting these clubs.[/QUOTE]Sex pension.

Club Angelique.

Dolce Vita Raubach.

All the AO chicks working in Krefeld & Monchengladbad (sp).

Sorry for late report.

Last March been in this 2 Fkk flat rate AO, my first time in this kind of club, but I had a great fun.

Grimberg Sauna.

I tried Angie a blond bulgarian with a sexy body, good BBBJ on sofa and anal action in the room, the only problema was that she don't use a lube, so the action was a little be difficult, but I was so horny at I cum quicly.

Second choice is Micky (RO) she is a great perfomance, not BBBJ on sofa because we directly go to the room, she gave me alot of fun. Everythings good with her, finish in her mouth.

Third choice Eva a small bulgarian, in the room I was a little be disappointed because her ass was so small and she don't have a lube, so I had a big difficult for fuck her ass. So just fuck a little in the pussy and take a long BBBJ cim.

Arabella.

I tried:

Nadja a small bulgarian anal specialized, start with a classic BBBJ on sofa and move in the room for anal.

Karina, great Romanian perfomer. We move directly to the room and everythings was great: BBBJ, anal and cim.

Anna, young Bulgarian with a beautiful face and nice body, good BBBJ on sofà an good session in the room, finish with cim.

Went on Friday may 5th.

I am horrible with names, I apologize!

There were 14 girls there!

Honestly there were only 1 or 2 that I wouldn't do, I was suprised at the quality. A few of the girls could have easily been at FKK golden time. (Where I normaly go)

I have been wanting to try these AO clubs for quite some time. I went to Dietzenbach in January and was completely sold! It's going to be hard to go back to the covered FKK places I think.

There was actually one girl there that it was her very first day! It was confirmed by the other girls and the old woman at the desk! And I was her first customer! That was a nice feeling knowing I was the first longer to creampie her pussy! She was very tall and great tits and ass!

I ended up doing 4 sessions. With two threesomes. All AO and all CIP. One of the girls said no CIP. I acted sad and during the session was sweet talking her. And by the end of the session she allowed me to CIP!

Took a couple days off and will hit another club tomorrow!

[QUOTE=Bobbyson; 1565940]Went on Friday may 5th.

It's going to be hard to go back to the covered FKK places I think.

![/QUOTE]Indeed. Since my first visit to Arabella and VV, I have not gone back to any of the big FRA clubs. Not because of the AO offer, but because of the "normal (= no divas)" attitude, and the "no extra" policies, which includes CIM, CIP, COF and anal and all that at much lower costs. (Just check with the girl before agrreing what she does, some don't do everything, but whatever they do is included in the initial price.).

[QUOTE=Bobbyson;1565940]There was actually one girl there that it was her very first day! It was confirmed by the other girls and the old woman at the desk! And I was her first customer! That was a nice feeling knowing I was the first longer to creampie her pussy! She was very tall and great tits and ass![/QUOTE]Just because it is her first day at a club, does not mean you were her first cream pie. She could have been with 10 clients the day before. These girls move from club to club, all AO & same owners.

I surely agree that it is terribly difficult to go back to covered after having done AO. I always had that problem after splitting with a girlfriend. After my last one I decided I (hopefully) wouldn't have anymore, and I remember discussing with the SW I've dealt with since longest time (this is our 11th year, we are aging together, LOL!) that my only regret was that I wouldn't have been able to fuck anymore a bareback pussy in my life, and I wasn't an old hopeless lad. Of course I was aware of Thailand, Philippines, etc, but I wouldn't have had the courage to BB an "untested" girl, I already explained how stupid I consider myself for finding the courage with girls who get some 20 AO daily, but in a club, legally and controlled (...)

Last year I had tried to go to Oase and World after experiencing NRW AO clubs, it was too difficult, I drove back to NRW and went also to Dietzenbach! This winter I took also a couple of holidays in "normal" countries, covered stuff, too difficult, I'm back in NRW, whenever I can.

This said and agreed, I must admit that visiting certain clubs with certain girls sometimes makes me think and remember of how nice it would be to deal with a beautiful girl, not even a stunner, just a beautiful girl that you enjoy (or don't "suffer") watching, touching, even kissing, instead of just carrying out the task with girls you feel sacrificed with, inspite of their efforts, availability to whatever (like DFK, which very often I avoid) and great service.

In this trip I even tried a club new to me, Villa Romantica, but I really wasn't that satisfied, I hope my next trip will be luckier. To be optimistic, I hope I just caught wrong days with valid girls off...

VV, tuesday 6th of may.

It seems that I was there the day after Bobbyson, who seems to have troubles even with the calendar, as I already said, obviously joking, in AO Chat and Lounge thread.
It seems that I found a whole different contingent of girls in attendance.

As usual, I phoned in advance to ask if Laura and another one or two were there. Barbara said only Laura was present, more than enough for me. I arrived, paid happily (no headache about choosing in advance) the 60 euros entrance with one girl included and quickly reached back the main floor.
My target wasn't there, obviously she must have been busy. I gave a look around: I had been there only one month before, but I could recognize only Magda, Lily and Maia, not even the always present Larissa was there. Girls must have been about 13, I wondered if the old faces were off, on holiday, or left (or, more likely, got fired by spitfire TF). The 2 new girls worth a try that I had noticed on my previous visit were absent too. I sat in front of the sofa that I knew, but I also was told after asking, was occupied by Laura. A girl in a sofa close to mine had started chatting me up since I had arrived. Her face was quite pretty, she was very nice, but a bit chubby. Shortly after a new girl came and sat in front of me. Not bad, actually doable, but such a sad face expression.
To make it short, it came out that I was waiting for Laura... but Laura was sitting in front of me! I felt like in a supposed-to-be comic movie. 2-3 girls confirmed and laughed at my astonishment, even the new Laura smiled, showing off her teeth, which made me classify her as unkissable and not choosable. I went to the counter, Barbara confirmed. I couldn't make her understand, due to the language barrier, how disappointed I was for the misunderstanding: my point was that she should have recognized me by the voice, accent and usual question, or she could have specified that there was a new Laura.

The ceiling fell on me. My favourite girl, my biggest, if not only, reason for going to VV (second one being that I'm based in Duisburg) had told me that she was to leave or, equally if not more true, to be sent away. Of course I couldn't post it in forum, hoping it wouldn't happen. And I couldn't see alternatives around me... I had paid 60, I had a girl included, of course I couldn't leave undone, but how would I choose? Blindfolded? By lottery draw? By doing some rhyme count like children playing? No truly unfuckable girls around, but no fuckable girls either, for one reason or another, obviously to my taste.

The most correct solution was suggested by the girl who had entertained me for all that time. She convinced me she could have consoled me. She deserved me to go with her even only for the time and effort she took for picking up my pieces and putting them together. Maybe it was thought that I was very affectionated to Laura, whom I'll surely miss, I hope and prefer so, it would be bad if they understood that my desperation was due more to the lack of alternatives, to the thought of being forced to go with (luckily only) one of them, to the thought that I could have gone somewhere else, etc.
She was so nice, I don't even want to think that she did it because of the lack of customers, really an empty afternoon, 2-3 other men around.
So, I went to the room with Elena, new in VV, coming from Alina with other 3-4 girls (at least). I don't remember well the details, I think she blew me well and then we fucked cowgirl and spoon. I think I remember she was kissable but I didn't kiss her. She put great effort and committment, really praiseworthy, unfortunately she wasn't my type of girl, I think and hope that I was enough a good actor and didn't make her understand. Even after, she warmly greeted me. If you like a bit chubby girls, I strongly recommend her. Needless to say, I left, quite disappointed, after the session.

It seems that "my" Laura is now in Verena, Dortmund. In next trip I may try another new club, if the ones I tried last week are in such bad conditions. Since sceneries can change quickly, and it takes just one two girls to make the difference, even if that may mean to repeat always the same ones, I hope things will get better. Unfortunately I will have to go and verify personally for safety nets in VV, unless somebody posts about worthy girls

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1566655]It seems that "my" Laura is now in Verena, Dortmund.[/QUOTE]I newer read positive reports about this club. Is something better going there now?

[QUOTE=Jymondor;1566711]I newer read positive reports about this club. Is something better going there now?[/QUOTE]Hy Jym,

Once last week I heard 2 guys speaking Russian by the lockers, maybe it was in VV, I thought about you.
I don't know about Verena, nor I have ever read anything good or particularly interesting about there, but it seems that a couple of "talents" have passed by there, even if for a short while. As I said, in one of my next trips I may try it, especially if it will be officially declared that Laura is there and the usual clubs I visit offer so little.

BTW, I wish I could read and write german without the "help" (?) of google translator, to join german fellas.
As a pastime, I put these links for those willing to participate to the searches of Laura going on in german forums.
Will ISG members arrive before german forums members?

[url]http://www.freiercafe.org/showthread.php?p=188683[/url],
starting from this one you will get other links with discussions, clues, hints and info about her.

Then, if this one works, http://www.freiercafe.com/showthread.php?t=29952

This is what you'll get to after some other clicks:

[url]http://www.pauschalclub.de/dortmund/girl/laura[/url]

As you may understand, there is a lot of confusion. In VV I was told she should be in Verena, AO club, which surely is her cup of tea. I can't imagine her working with condoms! It's against her principles, LOL!! And in a Pauschal club!!! Such a dickhead would last less than a couple of hours chain-fucking flatrate.

Pics resemble her, but they must be photoshopped: her hair was light brown last month, she seems to weigh quite a few kilos more, the body looks firmer and bigger, strangely no pics of her back, which is her best part inspite of many brown stains, but the face is hers, with slight adjustments. I can't tell about the colour of the eyes because I was always getting lost into them, but I don't remember them so light blue.

Waiting to write more about my recent trip, I welcome detectives, unfortunately with her no private contacts were ever exchanged.

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1566780]I can't imagine her working with condoms! It's against her principles, LOL!! And in a Pauschal club!!! Such a dickhead would last less than a couple of hours chain-fucking flatrate.[/QUOTE]Looks definitely her in the pictures. She had already worked in Pauschalclub Bochum in the past, before returning to VV, so I'm not surprised she's now in Dortmund.

[QUOTE=Varenne;1567094]Looks definitely her in the pictures. She had already worked in Pauschalclub Bochum in the past, before returning to VV, so I'm not surprised she's now in Dortmund.[/QUOTE]Thanks for confirming she already worked in a PC, so german fellas were right... There was another guy like me saying he couldn't imagine her flatrate and with condoms.

So, does this mean that I can fuck her all day, in sessions of 20 minutes time, after I pay my flatrate entrance? Since she's so moody, can she refuse that? TF can sort out problems? Do you know if she uses / the condoms also with her regulars from AO clubs, if and how much she would ask for that?

Thanks.

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1567121]So, does this mean that I can fuck her all day, in sessions of 20 minutes time, after I pay my flatrate entrance? Since she's so moody, can she refuse that? TF can sort out problems? Do you know if she uses / the condoms also with her regulars from AO clubs, if and how much she would ask for that?[/QUOTE]Sessions do last whole 20 minutes in Pauschalclubs, but I doubt you can keep repeating with the same girl over and over. Even if no rule explicitely prevents that, you'll at least be asked to interpose another girl between two consecutive sessions, and that will virtually limit you to a maximum of 3 sessions. And yes, girls have many ways to deny a session even without openly refusing it. I think that TF wouldn't see it as a problem is she tries to share her services with as many different customers as she can. I never heard girls asking for extras in Pauschalclubs, and I don't think AO is on the menu. If she eventually offers that you'd better keep it confidential or I expect she'll face troubles with management and other girls.

Thanks for your answer, Varenne.

My last question was supposed to be a sort of appeal, a sort of pm, quite stupid though, I was in a hurry and didn't reason on it properly. Of course I wouldn't post in open forum, nor I expect someone to answer in open forum, maybe not even by pm. I can't count how many "confidential" things I've come through and withheld, this of course would be one of them. I posted the question because I wouldn't like to go as far as Dortmund for a 20 minutes covered session with her. At this point, if I go there, I will not even report. My mistake.

i decided, for various reasons, to finally give a chance to villa romantica.
i think my report is the first one in isg about it, this makes me feel important, lol!

it is the easiest club to reach and the closest to stops of public means of transportation. on a rainy day, as was mine, you won't need an umbrellar: you walk out recklinghausen hbf, less than 10 metres in front of you there is a bus station, exactly in front of you there is hst 6, for bus 236, to alte grenz str. it comes once per hour, if you see it's going to be a long wait, then search for the place of bus 237, it runs once per hour as well but in 30 minutes distance, i don't know from what hst though. i had taken notes of the route before my previous trip, so i knew i had to count 11 stops, or anyway i had to get off at lanuv stop. but when i read the route i noticed blitzkuhlen str, 2-3 stops before the supposed one. fearing i had made a mistake, i got off at that stop. that was the mistake, luckily i wasn't far. lanuv stop is maybe 30 metres from the club, crossing the street.

the club has the shape of a circle, lights don't enlighten that much. you enter in what we could call the main lounge, because there's a tv with porn movies and you overlook the following lounge with the counter. the 4 lounges are more or less all of the same dimension, 3-4 sofas capable of accommodating some 8-10 persons, the one where there is the entrance of the sauna is without tv, another one is bigger than the other ones, both good for isolating. at the left of the entrance you have 3 showers, at their left, behind saloon-like doors, there are 2 urinals hanging from the wall. i felt shy in asking where a proper toilet could be, luckily i didn't need it.
towels are kept behind a closed door, if i'm not mistaken by the antechamber by the entrance itself. rooms are upstairs. i didn't bother to check, but a guy who befriended me eventually, told me they are only 3. in his phone call tf had told him 9 girls were available.
so, all this to accommodate... 6 girls and 2 men, when i arrived in early afternoon. tf, hardly speaking any english but at least making efforts to make you understand, had said on the phone that there were "8 girls! but beautiful!" to joke, i think that in her poor english she forgot to put at the beginning of the 2nd sentence the word "everything" (but beautiful). actually a 7th one arrived with bulky luggages (but still thinner than her) at about 7 pm.

i paid the usual 60 euros with a room included, and became guest star of the 4 girls sitting in the main lounge. a decently romanian speaking alien landing there filled their boring empty afternoon, i felt like an attraction, a mascot. rep001tered in the deserts were the only bulgarian present, another romanian girl on her own and the other 2 guests, eventually other 2-3 arrived. i must say that i'm finding out in clubs that quite a few germans can handle romanian language, it's funny to speak with german guys in romanian rather than in english.
the girls were not at all unfuckable, i have seen much worse, but none of them lit any spark in me, for one reason or another, all of them had something passable, also in comparison to the other ones, but also something that would stop me. 2-3 of them put in vv a couple of days before, probably would have made me feel less desperately hopeless when looking for the alternative to laura.

in front of me was sitting alexandra, apart from the small saggy tits, she looked pretty and with a good shaped firm body. i chose her. from close up she looked less pretty, i refused kissing. her bum had like pimples, anyway, she did her best to please me as much as possible, surely praiseworthy. once again, it was me being a bit of a wooden muppet, because i couldn't feel passion, attraction, involvement, etc. i fucking get frustrated for that, i wish i could extract their pussies from their bodies for the needed time and rub my dick into them before replacing them, to avoid other physical contacts, eye contact, talking, etc.
since i had no inspiration and i was even fearing a "hydraulic failure", i considered leaving, but i had gone that far, hoping in who knows what, maybe re-meeting the various nicole, bianca and other ones who have been named recently supposing they were there (btw, i was told many girls had to come back from vacation), i couldn't ask on the phone because i wasn't sure they had kept their old names... in the end i said to myself that i had wanted the bike, then i had to cycle.

second choice was maggie, a little bulgarian "frog". i'd define her a less "pretty" smaller version of grimberg's lily (!!!). i had read 1-2 great posts about her. i thought that at least with her we wouldn't have been able to speak a single word, so whatever could have happened, there would have been no explainations, no comments, nothing at all. not kissable, not sexy, not too accommodating, the only remarkable thing she did was to notice a little kissmark on my neck and... make a big one beside it and a smaller one on the other side. in the following days girls were staring at them, joking, questioning, etc. i was only fearing that there could be a sort of competition for the biggest kissmarker or that my neck would become a sort of "signature" board.

all in all my time there was quite fine: the atmosphere was very relaxed, i enjoyed girl's company, i had jokes with romanian speaking german guys, i befriended an english speaking guy, i didn't have empty boring lonely moments, i had 2 successful shots... i would feel guilty towards their kindness if i "officially" drew a negative conclusion, especially if there are some other 6/7 girls i didn't see...
but i think it's clear that, depending on where you are based, you will not go a long distance or skip other clubs to give priority to this one, at least for what i saw.

I repeatedly hit Arabella. No new arrivals, Elena definitely lost, Raissa on holiday. I democratically decided to go with the girls I hadn't had yet, with the exclusion of the 3 MILFs (german Sandra and Michelle plus bulgarian Mary) and of the dominican girl. The latter must be 34 years old, has silicone boobs and works only with condom.
This means that I included the only other girl who works covered in Arabella.

- Silvia a nigerian black panther working there sporadically, I finished in her mouth thanks to her great blowing. I chose her to have the pleasure to hold, hug, touch, fuck a body to my taste: tall, slim, firm, proportionate, she could be a model, only her boobs could be better, being small and not too firm;

- Gina 19 year old with a face of at least 26, a bit chubby, I had seen her in action on a sofa with an old lad, I thought she could be funny. Actually, as I told her, my main hope was that after sessioning with her, she would leave me in peace and keep far, which unfortunately didn't;

- Alice I caught her on her first day in Arabella, she was just back from Romania after a couple of months, she said she had been working a few months in Dietzenbach before. Phisically decent and fuckable, face not too pretty and not too cheerful, for the first time in my life I was asked to fuck "straightly" when mish, because if I swing rightwards or leftwards I might hurt girls' ovaries;

- Karina nice, polite, gentle, unfortunately a bit heavy and saggy phisically, even if proportionate. She was last prey, but never quitted smiling and talking to me, differently from other girls who had been chosen, even repeatedly, in the past or before her.

The only one I couldn't have was Aida. Pretty, short, slim, very cheerful, even better behaviour and attitude than Karina, her main (if not only one, considering her size and proportions) defect were the saggy boobs. Being so short and slim, having "big" saggy boobs was a downside. Last day I saw her, she unexpectedly left at 4 pm, I don't know why, I just know that's quite uncommon, perhaps I will post some considerations in the AO Lounge thread about working conditions.

Raissa came back for the weekend. She was in a hurry on sofas for zimmer and in a hurry in zimmer for sofas, like if she had to recover the time and sessions she missed while away. At least, at last a girl I could willingly zimmer, have intimacy, kiss, AO, etc.
She is not some supergirl, but really, out of what I met in this trip, she was outstanding.

Another annoying problem is that "morally" you can't take always the same girl (s). Not because of rules, but because to other girls' eyes and even to your own eyes, it may seem that you flew and/or go to that particular club only for a specific girl (s). Of course it's not true, but that may come up as final objective result. Not good.

Does Alice plan to return to Dietzenbach? Thought she moved her home base there.

HB.

Alice was in Dietzenbach a couple of weeks ago and not in Arabella today. It being a Sunday it was fairly quiet and it looks like Raissa's vacation did her good. She was in a good mood, looks great and the best session yet with her (and the most fun too). Second best looker is Alexandra, formerly Verena, who is leaving for a 3 week holiday this Saturday. Here I would say you could see that she is due for a break.

At the moment Villa Venus is pretty good, with some new girls and an unexpected sighting of Lori (in Dietzenbach, here Nataly). Good atmosphere with Manele at 1 pm, obviously on one of the days that Barbara isn't the theke.

[QUOTE=HessenBub;1568455]Does Alice plan to return to Dietzenbach? Thought she moved her home base there.

HB.[/QUOTE]AFAIK, Alice is still in Dietzenbach, though she is going on vacation this week until middle of June. The Alice whom Eastgoing described "Phisically decent and fuckable, face not too pretty and not too cheerful" does not sound like the Alice I know in Dietzenbach.

When I read HB's question I thought that could be a different Alice. Judging by the way she spoke, she didn't sound like going back to Dietz, she didn't sound like if she was just trying to see if Arabella could be ok for her, she sounded like being there to stay there. Anyway, she was some 165 cm, proportionate, not slim but not fat, appearently firm (actually a bit less when squeezing), had very nice boobs to look at, just over the shoulder brown hair (pony tailed), brown eyes. Attitude of a professional secretary or surgeon, I found strange she AOed, I'd see her better wearing surgery gloves and holding tissues. Not hot, not participative, no special complaints about her either, but surely you can choose better.

FD,

How was your session with Alexandra? She's been there 2 months and already goes on holiday? I met her after 2-3 weeks she was there, she said her pussy was in pain (inside the room, not before), she gave me a nightmare session, maybe she came already broken down from Verena. All customers who spoke to me about her, in that trip and in my last one, told me she is a dead corpse in bed (not to defend her, but old and fat men can't be attractive, especially to such a girl), I thanked and said I knew it. Also in german forums that is agreed. In spite of that, she still gets plenty of rooms, probably because she's quite pretty and relatively new in the club. Also, apart from Raissa, not great competitors from the physical point of view and also regarding youth and (supposed) freshness...

Would you tell us more about your Sunday visit? Maybe about girls on duty, opinions, considerations, details, etc.? You are well informed and updated, so you could share (what is shareable) more...

I've read you reckon VV has got a good line up, I'm glad about that, even if it could be a matter of tastes, so... What's your opinion about Arabella? Apart from Alexandra and Raissa, you noticed anything else worth?

I quickly visited Grimberg before flying away. Some 11 girls available, TF was the same of my last trip but this time she was very kind. Eva moved to VV, no new faces, I met by the showers Anastasia and took her to zimmer. She's slim, bulgarian but speaks english. A bit masculine, in body, face and haircut, we carried out the task like it had happened mostly on this trip: nothing to complain about the girl from the point of view of attitude and effort, general coldness from me due to the lack of a real, minimal physical attraction.

Since coming back home, I continued what I had started before this trip: barebacking SWs. The difficult point is always at the beginning, in everything. Now that I started, I think that my "illusion of more safety" (along with some possibilities of choice) in german AO clubs, which is a nonsense anyway, is fading in front of what I found available in 4 clubs in this trip. Also, my SWs surely don't take 20 bare dicks per day, actually not even in one month or two, which matematically lowers the risks. Maybe if I have a short stay in Germany I "suffer" less, but this time I really went back home demoralized, I didn't know where to go anymore and I didn't want to go long distances to get other delusions. Girls I'm currently dealing with at home are better (or surely not worse) than what I met recently in the reported clubs. I already booked other 2 trips and I will take them, if I hadn't already paid I would have waited maybe 2-3 months, just to give time to the clubs to get something decent. I'm even considering, since AOing at home, that I might go to normal FKKs where attractive girls can easily be found, just for the sake of it, trying not to mind the bloody condoms (as I did with Sylvia) and to enjoy watching, squeezing, licking, biting bodies I feel attraction for, regardless of what my dick feels or not. For once, I may give priority and some happyness to my hands, eyes and mouth too.

That's all for this trip.

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1570269]I quickly visited Grimberg before flying away. Some 11 girls available, TF was the same of my last trip but this time she was very kind. Eva moved to VV, no new faces, I met by the showers Anastasia and took her to zimmer. She's slim, bulgarian but speaks english. A bit masculine, in body, face and haircut, we carried out the task like it had happened mostly on this trip: nothing to complain about the girl from the point of view of attitude and effort, general coldness from me due to the lack of a real, minimal physical attraction.

Since coming back home, I continued what I had started before this trip: barebacking SWs. The difficult point is always at the beginning, in everything. Now that I started, I think that my "illusion of more safety" (along with some possibilities of choice) in german AO clubs, which is a nonsense anyway, is fading in front of what I found available in 4 clubs in this trip. Also, my SWs surely don't take 20 bare dicks per day, actually not even in one month or two, which matematically lowers the risks. Maybe if I have a short stay in Germany I "suffer" less, but this time I really went back home demoralized, I didn't know where to go anymore and I didn't want to go long distances to get other delusions...[/QUOTE]Thanks for your contributions. This thread will definitively miss you until your next trip.

BTW, whesore is home, where you can find so easily Sws who do BB? If it is not too indiscreet.

Ahahah, as you know I pratically always agree with what you say :-)

[QUOTE=Dreams;1570547]Thanks for your contributions. This thread will definitively miss you until your next trip.[/QUOTE]It surely will, since I seem to be the only one posting FIELD REPORTS with names, news, descriptions (also about reaching clubs), details, opinions, etc. of a few clubs, also relatively often, recently. What I write may be liked or not, agreed or not, appreciated or not, but it is reasonably better than the deafening silence wrapping this thread.

[QUOTE]BTW, whesore is home, where you can find so easily Sws who do BB? If it is not too indiscreet.[/QUOTE]You surely are ;-)
Anyway, as we all know, being a well known regular helps a lot anywhere in any matter. Also, Romanian girls BB everywhere, officially or not, in Romania like in England like in every country they colonized, in private flats like in the streets like in clubs, not only in Germany's AO clubs. If you really want AO, I think you can get it nearly everywhere without struggling too much, maybe you'll have to offer more money (luckily I don't need to), but you will get it.

I've just read Bobo.fr's posts in the threads he opened, about his concern to look like showing off his trophies... If what I write sounds like I'm doing that, I apologize and will try to improve.

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1571514]Ahahah, as you know I pratically always agree with what you say :-)

It surely will, since I seem to be the only one posting FIELD REPORTS with names, news, descriptions (also about reaching clubs), details, opinions, etc. of a few clubs, also relatively often, recently. What I write may be liked or not, agreed or not, appreciated or not, but it is reasonably better than the deafening silence wrapping this thread.[/QUOTE]Yes, which is why I said that this thread is at risk of dying wihtout you.

I would happily report, and have in the past whenever I happened to be in the area, but have not got a chance since an eternity. Reading your posts just reminds me of good times, and makes me more active in finding a good reason to go back. And if I do, I'll repopulate a little bit this thread with my reports.

As of now, it is stilll in my dreams.

Cheers

I guess this is the same management as Villa Venus. I will drive by. Could stop for couple of hours. Is that complete waste of time, or could be comparable to VV or Grimberg? Is that place AO?

To understand my report on Club Angelique requires that I define what an outstanding experience is for me. I am 95% influenced by how much the girl is GFE, which means attitude more than anything else but includes enthusiastic open mouth tongue caressing kissing, hugging, holding, generally being sweet and loving and acting as much like a true loving girlfriend as possible. Looks are nice of course, but secondary to me.

Working today at Club Angelique (Dulken-Viersen) were Rhianna, Melissa, Vanessa, Cassandra, Kathi, Roberta and 2 or 3 others not dressed as if working and to whom I was not introduced. In spite of the above, I made the mistake of choosing by looks and took Melissa to a room. I had actually kind of settled on her prior to arrival from frequently looking at her photos online. A red flag should have been when she wouldn't kiss or show any affection in the common area, though she promised to once in a room. Melissa is a very pretty petite girl, unbelievably slender while still avoiding being skinny. She has a beautiful body and face, including perfectly shaped breasts. She has dyed her hair a more golden color from the pictures I've seen (freiercafe). Unfortunately, Melissa was the opposite of GFE, refused to kiss, gave a very half-hearted sparse and quick blow job and then got on all fours for doggie, not my favorite. Fake noises along with movements seemingly designed to minimize contact were a complete turn-off. I made her switch to missionary, and only being very horny enabled me to finish. She continued to move away from each thrust, and alternated between fake moans and grimaces as if she could barely tolerate the session.

I started to just leave the club afterwards, since it is difficult for me to perform more than once a day anymore. If I had I probably would not have ever come back, either. However I sat down in the little common area and rested a little, drank a glass of water, and struck up a conversation with Roberta. She speaks a little English, which enabled me to feel a little of a connection to her. I mentioned to her that at my age (50) I usually couldn't perform again, but I wanted to be with her. She assured me she would be very loving with much kissing and so I took her to a room. Roberta was very GFE, and I regretted not having chosen her the first time (she actually didn't appear though until after I had sessioned with Melissa). She was everything I could ask for but I still wasn't able to finish (no fault of hers at all). Roberta isn't slender, but she IS beautiful. And her attitude is the best I've encountered at Club Angelique after 4 visits over 2 years.

A few notes about the club in general: It costs 20 euro to enter, paid up front, then each 1/2 hour AO session is another 80 euro, again paid up front. That is quite expensive, especially with the dollar to euro exchange rate being pretty bad. $1 = . 629 euros. You have to press a button at the exterior door to be buzzed in and then climb narrow stairs to the 3rd floor (2nd floor if you start with zero, as the Europeans do). Then you come back down to the 2nd floor to session in a room. I was in the same room both sessions and it was hot with no way to cool it. The discomfort is enough to daunt older men who are already a little challenged for maintaining erections and achieving ejaculations. The "shower" in my room was actually just a jacuzzi type tub with a flexible shower head. The water took forever to get warm.

I've seen postings on freiercafe of guys being confused about locker availability, and receiving conflicting information about their location and being able to use them. As far as I can tell the usual procedure is to wear your street clothes until session time, when they are shed in the session room and then you dress again when you are finished. I miss LaLuna for several reasons and one of them is being able to use lockers and then sit around in a towel or a robe until you are ready to leave.

All in all I probably will return to see Roberta again, though I dread the hot room. I have read good reports on Kathi also, so I would like to see they are true. I can't recommend Melissa unless you could care less about GFE and are all about optics.

A few updates about presences from last week:

In VV, Laura 2 seems to be gone already, I noticed 3 new faces;

In Arabella, only 10 girls on duty, 3 new faces; Sylvia off, as most of the time; pretty but useless Alexandra on holiday; Alice I'd say gone already (was she really the previously discussed one from Dietzenbach, just happening to be in NRW for a short while?); sweet Karina in Romania, officially not known for sure whether she comes back or not, nor when, but there is already another new girl called Karina, which to me sounds like a sentence; Gina sent off by referee, now is...

...In Grimberg, for the rest no other arrivals, no other losses, in this club any news about changes of staff should be on tv news.

Jym,

I don't know the answer to your question, but I don't think they are under the same management, since the pay structure amount is different from the other 3 clubs I mentioned above. In VV I saw by the counter the calling cards advertising also Grimberg and Arabella, all together, maybe there was a fourth club listed, I don't remember if and what was the name, still I don't think Erotika belongs to the chain.

Visited club on one of it's discount days (Tuesday and Sunday) recently. New pricing structure for those days (no Euro 20 entry but Euro 10 extra for sessions) is asinine unless they want to encourage the one-shot visitor, as two shots will be the same as a regular day, and three shots will be worse than a regular day, in addition to not being able to do the 20-minute, 30 Euro sessions you can do on regular days.

Few girls available. Alina is getting ever more bottom heavy, although still very pretty facially. Kathi, while still a very nice girl, is getting somewhat haggard. Vanessa is getting more and more blowsier. One or two other girls available not my type. Did one bareback session. Good session, with DFK, but not the dynamite, passionate GFE sessions of old, as she seemed to be in some discomfort during the session. The premium to the other bareback clubs in the area (almost double what it costs in VV, Arabella, and Grimsberg) does not appear to be worth it anymore.

[QUOTE=JimmyBoy99;1579949]The premium to the other bareback clubs in the area (almost double what it costs in VV, Arabella, and Grimsberg) does not appear to be worth it anymore.[/QUOTE]Totally agree. My first visit there was awesome. Two next ones worse and worse. So I quit visiting them because nothing new and girls look more and more worn out.

Saved the last two days of my two weeks in Germany for these clubs so as to not have any possible unwanted barebacking consequences affect the length of my trip. Arrived about 1:30 PM. Only 9 (maybe 10) girls present, most not doable. Was enticed over to her couch by Sabrina (Sabine? A brunette with a reasonable face, nice tits and good body. Soon we were making out, she sucked my dick for a few minutes, and then proceeded to the room. I started fucking her and after a while she started to complain that I was taking too long to come. About 23 minutes into the session (I could tell how much time had passed by the song that was playing on my laptop) she said time was up. I told her we still had 6-7 minutes but she said no, time was up, and got up to leave, so the session ended.

When I returned from cleaning up, I sat next to Raisa, with whom I had been with in January and who remembered me because of the music. While chatting I told her about Sabrina shorting me on the time, with her translating to Sabrina sitting on a couch with a guy, and Sabrina making faces at me. I told Raisa I would go with her after I rested and left. After a while, I caught up with Raisa, did the make-out, blow job, and go to room routine. The session started OK but after 10 minutes she needed a rest, then another rest every five minutes, with her finally grumbling in Romanian something I assume was that I was fucking too long. The session finally ended more or less on time, and was OK, although the "come already!" attitude was kind of disappointing. Since there was no one else I could fuck, I left for Grimberg sauna.

When I arrived at Grimberg about 7 PM, same story: 8 girls, five of whom were fat and / or unattractive. One had a decent face but a pudgy body. One was young and had a nice face but a strange-shaped body. The last, Micky, was OK looking. Had I not paid for a session with the entry (all the NWR clubs had the same pricing structure, 30 Euro entry with 30 Euro sessions) I would have eaten the entry fee and left, I was that disappointed with the line-up. Most of the girls sat in the terrace most of the time smoking and chatting, since there were so few customers.

After a couple of hours, it was getting late and I wanted to get the session I had paid for, so I approached Micky on the terrace, who had gotten better-looking to me as the evening progressed, jokingly remonstrating with her about her constant smoking, and chatting about her three-some with a guy that looked like Jabba the Hut (his gut hung to his knees) and whether they had found his dick and fucked him (they did, but only blow job). We then went to a couch, did the make-out and blowjob routine, she mounted me for a minute or two, and the we proceeded to the room. The session was very passionate, with lots of DFK, but after 20 minutes or so, she needed a rest so proceeded to give me a blow-job, which was so enjoyable that I came in her mouth. We rested a bit, cleaned up, and since it was almost closing time, bid her good-bye and left, feeling satisfied after an inauspicious start.

Sunday I arrived at VV about 1:30 PM. Again 9 girls, 7 unfuckable, one marginally fuckable, and one fuckable. The latter was Maya, sister of Lily, with whom I had sessioned with on my two previous visits. Maya was slender and had reasonably nice face. She finally became free and we did a good session. Since there was no one else to fuck there, and I needed to drive to Frankfurt to go to Dietzenbach, I left.

I arrived at Dietzenbach about 7 PM, after checking into my hotel. Again, 8 pictures at the reception, none of whom looked fuckable. I asked if I could look at the girls in the lounge down the steps from the reception but was told no, I could only look at the pictures. Not wanting to fuck any of them based on their pictures and not wanting to possibly waste 70 Euro, I left, probably to the surprise of the thekefrau at the reception. I thought about going to Mainhattan since it was still early, but not wanting to possibly infect anyone there if I had caught something that day or the day before because of the barebacking, I just went back to my hotel.

Overall, the A / O clubs were disappointing this trip (including Club Angelique; see previous post). I was dismayed by the decline in girl numbers, quality, and service since my previous visits in July 2013 and January 2014. I'm not sure it's worthwhile going to these clubs anymore, given what is available there, now that I have confirmed that AO is available with some girls at some regular clubs for a modest 50 Euro supplement.

I've just read the last 4-5 pages of this link with the "help" of google translator, I understood little but enough, I think, to understand that something is wrong:

[URL]http://www.freiercafe.org/showthread.php?t=23034&page=49[/URL]

Does this explain why so few girls are left in these clubs recently? Is it possible that so many girls went on holiday (to get cured?) all together at the same time in all clubs? If you read on that site the various threads, you will notice that all AO clubs have only 5-9 girls on duty in all recent reports.

I would ask Hessen Bub, SwingerLover or other german colleagues to sum up the matter clearly.

From what I understand, a few guys seem to have caught at least chlamidia and gonorrhea, a guy maybe one month ago, another one mentions also condilomas; something wrong in Romantika but mostly in Grimberg, Arabella is mentioned but I don't understand what for (but doesn't sound for bad), in VV thread (not linked) a guy said that a girl, Jasmina, was at home because she was sick. And clubs and TFs seem not to care about anything, starting from not minding customers' warnings, seem not to cooperate among themselves to prevent an infected girl from changing clubs when halted by her club because of her infection, etc.

HELP!!!

P.S. In the (extremely unlikely) case that I misunderstood everything, I apologize for the mistake, of course it isn't my intention to spread panic

The discussion is mostly because Grimberg (and just Grimberg) didn't do anything with the information that one girl might have Chalmydia. That's all that's being said. The rest is just examples of clubs that did do something with these kind of reports and how anyone going bareback should accept there is the risk of catching a STD (and thus also let themselves be checked once in a while).

Another side discussion was how girls very wuickly get an official clean bill of health from a docter, say later the same day they were singled out for maybe having a STD. Far quicker than is possible if you actually get yourself tested (which takes a couple of days). This off course, because otherwise they can't work for a couple of days.

[QUOTE=FreeDude;1581538]. Far quicker than is possible if you actually get yourself tested (which takes a couple of days). This off course, because otherwise they can't work for a couple of days.[/QUOTE]f you go to the right clinic/hospital, you can get all your results, including HIV, by SMS in a few hours.

Two weeks ago, I had a session with anallover Sara (skinny youngster with very tight ass and small tits) and the famous Lilly. While I was fucking Sara in the ass, Lilly was sucking my balls and rimming my asshole.

When I left the place I noticed this hot body MILF: slender, flat stomach and huge naturals.

I returned this week with the intent to check her out.

Her name is Michaela, a Rumanian MILF of around 35. Her setcard mentions "Ich mache alles", which I am able to confirm. She is also a great kisser and has a sweet and soft pussy to lick. She knows how to use her hangers to tease a man. One only drawback: she only does anal in missionary, which does'nt allow very deep penetration. I liked her so much that I had another session with her before I left.

Between the two sessions I fucked the sensual Bahar and the three holes of Melly.

Michaela let me take a picture (without her face) to share with you guys.

[QUOTE=Woodypussy1967;1564018]I noticed that the websites of these clubs do not have any photos with their available madams. There are only available in their reception. Do you know if there are any other websites where I can see their photos? I always prefer to have a look at girls' photos before visiting these clubs.[/QUOTE]Send you a PM, but your box seems to be full. . . .

I'm just back from a little trip, I will post more eventually. For now I just give you this update: as you can read in

[URL]http://www.freiercafe.org/showthread.php?t=23034&page=58[/URL]

and few previous pages, it seems that if you want to repeat with the same girl you will have to pay double price every session. This new rule supposedly was effective from Monday.
I was in Arabella and one of the girls informed me, but not all of them knew about it. Anyway, I sessioned twice with the same girl, who didn't know about that (I'm sure she didn't pretend to ignore it to avoid losing a session), but still paid 30. Between the 2 sessions I took another girl, but this doesn't affect the new rule.
I did exactly the same thing 2 days after in VV, again I paid 30 euros. To Barbara!
Finally, I explored Villa Verena in Dortmund, that belongs to the same chain. It was my first visit there, I had the 3rd and 4th session with the same girl, the time elapsed between the 2 sessions was just sufficient to take a shower, still I paid 30.
In none of the clubs there was any message written by the counter or anywhere else to inform about this, nor did the TFs speak about it.

Reports will follow, but I can tell you in advance that I was quite happy about the "discover" of Verena

Just like the other priceing things, this thing can differ from day to day and from club to club. At some point in time they had this in VV, but then not anymore. Dietzenbach is the only place where they have been adhering to this rule consistently (as far as I know).

I came back only 3 weeks after my last trip, this is what I found.

For different reasons not necessary to be listed, Nadia, Sabrina 2 (about 3 months old in the club), Maya (about 3 weeks old, now said to be in Dietzenbach) and Nicole 2 don't work there anymore.

The latter actually had lasted only 3 days, she often wasn't feeling well, but it had been a good zimmer. A couple of hours later she had vomited (not because of me, LOL!) but kept working. She must obviously have started working without any test nor medical visit. I think I can say that must be common practice, at least in these clubs (I can't speak about normal non AO FKKs), since she wasn't the first one walking in and starting off in the last 2-3 months, in different clubs. Luckily her health problem was nothing contagious. I didn't want to post this kind of details, but, come on, if we accept AO we accept whatever may come along with it.

Alexandra is back, she got slimmer and now is blondish, absolutely not as attractive as the first time I saw her, when I gaped on the doorstep. Customers continue to complain about her (dis) services, at least among other customers (I don't know if they speak to TFs), including me, which strengthens the concept, since I obviously don't speak german. Also in forums there are complaints, I think the club won't keep her much longer, but now Arabella is in shortage of girls and, mostly, of beauty and fuckability, and new customers entering will go straight to her.

Raissa got even slimmer, I wonder if she weighs 40 kgs, she is left with her long hair and her unalterable boobs. I think she got the best implants on earth, I've been exploring her breast and armpits trying not to be eyecatching and I couldn't find traces of cuts. Discussed the matters with other customers, we agreed that it is a real mistery.

Silvia was on her last day, she said she wants to quit.

There was a new bulgarian girl, Anna, if I'm not mistaken she does anal too, like most of bulgarians. She's nearly the same size and height of Michaela, who was on duty too, along with Denisa, Maria, Sandra, Sarah and a Romanian girl in the club since 2-3 months, always on her own, maybe her name is Alina. Apart from slim, short anal MILF Maria, for a laughter I would say I'd see better the group listed above in a mud-fighting action, I don't say sumo fighting because they are not at that point, at least not yet, LOL! Anyway they have great skills in bed and affectionated customers, so let's leave them where they are, I just wanted to joke underlining their physical strength and mass.

Aida was off. By the way, I found out why she had left earlier on that day in May I posted about: a customer had noticed she had a "pussy problem", she got cured and came back after 2-3 weeks, I gladly sessioned with her (not knowing about that) in the beginning of June.

MILF Michelle was off, I haven't seen her since April, but I think this week she was back, there's a new post in her section in Freiercafe.

Gaby was off. When I came back in March, she was more or less like I had seen her last year, in April she had aged 5-10 years in one go, I don't know if I got that impression because she fattened up a little, because she changed her haircut and / or whatever else, anyway she is back after a break of about one month, she was said to be sick, but I don't know of what.

Obviously not everything that I'm told is true or believable, so I always keep room for doubts. It has happened that girls check my card to see with whom I had been before, since among them supposedly there was someone sick. I never listened to that, because it wouldn't make any difference, since a taunted apple would spoil all of them, I just classified that as simple envy, revenge or stuff like that. Also, if that had been true and known, why would the supposed sick girls be left there?

Another example: if you ask whether Sabrina 2 is back or not, Renata will say she is on holiday, Ana will say she's ill, truth is she's back in Bucharest and 99,99% she won't return.

Conclusion: IMHO, at the moment Arabella is not worth a visit, the club has no girls, in quality and quantity, and nearly not even customers, at least that's what I saw and heard.

FD,

You are such a mine of info, what a pity that you don't post in this thread but write mostly in normal FKK section.

These clubs have strange, absurd rules: did you know that girls have to receive sperm in their mouths in half of their sessions and in their pussies for the other half? Probably anal counts apart, since not all girls do it. That's why sometimes they ask you to finish in their mouths or "cheat" when going to declare to TFs what was done in the room, sometimes "cheating" also the customer or agreeing a version with him. I thought they were lazy to go to wash their pussies...

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1596431]it seems that if you want to repeat with the same girl you will have to pay double price every session. This new rule supposedly was effective from Monday.
I was in Arabella and one of the girls informed me, but not all of them knew about it. Anyway, I sessioned twice with the same girl, who didn't know about that (I'm sure she didn't pretend to ignore it to avoid losing a session), but still paid 30. Between the 2 sessions I took another girl, but this doesn't affect the new rule.[/QUOTE]It probably does affect the new rule. In Villa Romantika, where you have to pay upfront choosing between one, two, or three sessions, you can session twice (but not thrice) with the same girl only if you choosed the 3 x option.

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1596715]FD,

You are such a mine of info, what a pity that you don't post in this thread but write mostly in normal FKK section.

These clubs have strange, absurd rules: did you know that girls have to receive sperm in their mouths in half of their sessions and in their pussies for the other half? Probably anal counts apart, since not all girls do it. That's why sometimes they ask you to finish in their mouths or "cheat" when going to declare to TFs what was done in the room, sometimes "cheating" also the customer or agreeing a version with him. I thought they were lazy to go to wash their pussies...[/QUOTE]I didn't know about this rule, but I do know the girls always want FT, even though they don't like it. I pretty much always tell them to tell the TF whatever they want, what do I care. But it is kind of ridiculous that it is more important what they do, than what the clients want.

[QUOTE=Varenne;1597101]It probably does affect the new rule. In Villa Romantika, where you have to pay upfront choosing between one, two, or three sessions, you can session twice (but not thrice) with the same girl only if you choosed the 3 x option.[/QUOTE]

So Romantika changed price structure: as I posted, when I had been there in May I had paid 60 entrance with one zimmer included, 30 euros for the following sessions. About zimmering a different girl between 2 rooms with the same one, also a guy in freiercafe wrote it doesn't make any difference, you still should pay 60. Another guy wrote that Arabella is not using it (in this moment, they should be crazy). Or maybe I was just lucky.
And in Verena I zimmered the same girl twice consecutive in 5 minutes, actually after some 15, because we stayed on sofa some 10 minutes. Interesting in this club, I noticed that girls don't go to TF before zimmering to take keys, so actually she doesn't know how long a girl stays with a customer and if she's in the room or not. In fact it was me insisting to come out of the room after more than 40-45 minutes, also because I was worried about the rule of paying 120 for one hour (which works in Arabella). I asked the girls about this rule and they didn't know about that, I was worried that they may try to cheat me, being new to the club. After the third room I realized the matter of the key and understood that the girls were in good faith. It was my first visit, next time I'll pay more attention to this detail, since it seems too good to be true to me, even if it would make sense: a girl willing to stay longer with you can take longer time on the couch before zimmering, and action can be started and carried out also out of the room.

[QUOTE=FreeDude;1597202]I didn't know about this rule, but I do know the girls always want FT, even though they don't like it. I pretty much always tell them to tell the TF whatever they want, what do I care. But it is kind of ridiculous that it is more important what they do, than what the clients want.[/QUOTE]
This rule seems to be very strict and very important: I found it out a couple of months ago, during a post-zimmer "interview" about the fact that I had repeated a girl. On my card there was written AO / FT, interviewers "congratulated". I asked what it meant, the answer was that I had fucked without condom and finished in mouth. A shy "did I?" escaped me. One of the interviewers jumped off the sofa like if there had been fire on it, she said she knew I always CIP (been with me a few times, knowing me since last year), the other one (same "status", just 2 rooms) endorsed the matter and they rushed to speak to TF like if they had found a bomb ticking (after loudly speaking to the other girls in Romanian about the scandal). Of course my attempts to say it was true were badly rejected. Anyway, TF was Ana, too good and tranquil character to get engaged in discussions or give trouble to the girls (even if you complain about having been refused by 3 girls, she won't even ask you who or why, nor she'll discuss the matter when club closes) and the culprit was "topscorer" of the club, so nothing happened.

All of us surely have been asked by some girls to finish in mouth, whether before or during the session, in all AO clubs, which proves how important it is. I find it stupid, since I don't see the point (I don't think girls get bonuses for that), it can be disappointing for the customers, and can anyway be bypassed by agreeing a version or not interfering with the custom declaration.
BTW, there are normally other 3 possible declarations, excluding anal: - FT; - AO; - Normal, which includes just talking, massages, pratically non sexual activities. I'm not sure if it applies also to covered sex, since in this case girls explicitely say "mit guhmi".

Another little curiosity: the pics by the counter state what girls do, and all of them have a "spezialitat". It's always one of the two: anal (very few) or schlucken (the very most, in english means they swallow). Well, as far as I know, very little by personal experience (a few times I have asked for a little blowing after CIPping, just for girls to taste my essence) but a lot by speaking with them, none of the girls in Arabella swallow! Currently and in previous months for sure. Even a TF confirmed that, and all posts I read in other forums, when giving full details, say that girls spit out in tissues. I would think it is the same in other clubs.

What I wrote in this post applies surely to Arabella, I don't know about the other clubs. For instance, I have noticed that Ana even asks you a name (accepting even an openly declared fictitious one, different in different visits) to put on your card, Renata doesn't.
In Venus, Barbara collects my card after the first zimmer, but still girls have to make declarations, so she must be taking notes.
I don't remember about Grimberg and Romantika, but in Verena TF used Renata's procedure.

after the delusion of arabella, which i found in conditions even worse than those of march, i decided to try somewhere else, the choice fell on venus.
the atmosphere was quiet and relaxed, some 15 girls on duty, 4-5 punters, barbara was in good mood (someone is banging her too? lol!).
larissa was back, no trace of the new (supposed) superstar jasmine, whom i had already tried without great satisfaction, the new bianca was the karina who had left arabella in may, with the new haircomb i hadn't recognized her even in my quick previous visit. the rest of the crew i had already seen all, more or less.
anal: magda (ro), michaela (ro), melly (ro), bony (bul, really small and bony, not to be confused with bonnie ex arabella, at least once and a half bigger), bahar (bul / tur), plus 1-2 more (probably bulgarians) i don't remember.

new face to me was natalie (ro), sociable, cheerful, always joking, with a perennial, captivating inviting smile on her ok face. decent body in that messe of cellulitis and skeletons (no middle ways, apart masculine twin sisters lily and maja). her body was opposing some resistance to the enhanced force of gravity of the club, even if she'd be much better with at least 5-6 kgs less. she must be 1,70 tall, with strange tolerable (can i say nice?) handles of love, nice boobs, she starts going off the rails by her hips downwards, has a phrase tattooed on the right one. we became friends very soon and zimmered. nothing extraordinary, but funny and surely recommendable. even after zimmering, she entertained me a lot, i set my record of permanence in vv, over 6 hours (i would have stayed more if closing time hadn't approached), thanks to her and... to elena, the girl who had assisted me a couple of months before, after laura's departure.

she had been the first one smiling to me when i arrived, but i didn't even remember sessioning with her (like had happened with ex-karina, i nearly ignored her as well), however her bright smile had sent a subliminal message to my unminding eyes, i couldn't help noticing it among the "normal" other ones.
i was pushed in her arms by natalie and other 3-4 girls who teamed up for the purpose. not that i had found any particular attraction for other candidates, i could have chosen nearly any, all from a low level, the "less worse", but no one would light any spark. mind you, pratically no other customers around, and instead of trying to hook me up, they wanted me to go with elena at all costs. i couldn't believe it, that's nice solidarity, i can't imagine anything like that among the envies, selfishnesses and rivalries i always came across (even heavily, having even been involved in "disputes" more than once) in arabella, where they normally fight even only after who has to go to the washing machine for the towels.
the problem was that the girl hadn't had any session that day and she was very sad also for her own other matters. i too was in "despair" from the day before. we put together our sorrows and had great time, in and out of the room. as i wrote, she has too many kgs in excess, but is very sweet. i found out she's a fantastic, participative, enthusiastic, tireless, even exigent kisser, what had i missed out on the first day i had met her! her long curly black hair surround a very pretty face, beautiful eyes, nose, mouth, smile (for perfectionists, she has one tooth missing, but nearly out of sight). she kisses with an extraordinary "illusion-factor", uncomparable to the many heartless-just-tongue-whirling girls, who rave at light-speed like pointless tilted machines, like grimberg's lily, or raissa when she is in a hurry, and i'm mentioning girls i appreciate and recommend.
luckily physically elena is not my kind of girl, so i could enjoy the (real) gfe without risking to fall for her, lol!
when i went with her the first time, i was worried that my dick wouldn't respond, and actually he took some time, but now it did even too much. by concentrating in cowgirl or, better, mish on her kisses and face (and aoing), it was not a problem at all.

i left happy and satisfied.

p.s. i was supposed to meet the following day a guy and 2 friends of him that i had met in grimberg time ago. he wanted to meet up back there, i told him to read freiercafe, about the diseases episod. he called me later, thanked me and suggested arabella. i described him the desolation, the losses, the possibilities, in the end we agreed venus.

day 2 will follow.

Surprised Elena has so few zimmers. I also had a great session with her (some while ago), and she does have a pretty face. Nathalie used to be called Lori in Dietzenbach (and was a bit slimmer back then) and is a fun, fun girl.

One of the reasons I haven't been to VV for a while is that I usually have sessioned with about 80% of the girls and the new ones aren't that interesting. That's a general thing in the RTC world, many girls that have been there for ages and if you go to a new RTC, you'll normally see a few familiar faces.

[QUOTE=FreeDude;1597582]Surprised Elena has so few zimmers. I also had a great session with her (some while ago), and she does have a pretty face. Nathalie used to be called Lori in Dietzenbach (and was a bit slimmer back then) and is a fun, fun girl.[/QUOTE]
I think the real problem could be the lack of customers, that's why girls fight angrily for them in all clubs, and that's why I was so impressed by her colleagues trying to drive me to Elena, which I did not take as a sacrifice anyway, even before discovering her qualities. Only Natalie was making rooms, the other girls hardly made one zimmer, most of them 0.
I spent 4 days in 3 clubs for 6-8 hours daily, I pratically closed every evening, only from Verena I left at 22,40 worried to find a way to go back to Duisburg and thinking they were to close, instead they told me they close at midnight! The only club who stays open the hours written by the entrances!
Anyway, in those days the maximum of men I counted was 11, for less than 3 hours, in day 2 in Venus, but I was in a group of 4 and there was a group of 5 italians. For the rest, I remember being hardly 5-6 punters present at the same time, in any day in all clubs.
Maybe in summer time customers take holidays, or perhaps it is also what you say about being more or less always the same girls, also not that attractive.

[QUOTE]in the RTC world, many girls that have been there for ages and if you go to a new RTC, you'll normally see a few familiar faces.[/QUOTE]
True: in Verena I had planned to keep secret my knowledge of Romanian language, hoping to be treated like a normal customer, maybe not as much as an old german lad, but at least not as "one of them" (referred to the girls, who normally, due also to me looking young, treat me like if we were friends in a disco and not a customer paying prostitutes in a brothel), which has plenty of pros but can have also a few downsides. I had entered with an english speaking german guy, I thought it was a good start. Come out of the shower, I entered the lounge and somebody greeted me in extremely friendly Romanian, saying words that normally couldn't be understood by a non-Romanian speaker. I turned my head, it was Stefania, last year in Arabella, now her name is Anna. The funny side is that at that time I was a 0 in that language, so I said I couldn't understand, she said she knew I was lying, which means that girls anyway are in touch (in fact eventually she gave me a few updates). However a few seconds after arrived also one of the 6-7 girls I had met in Romantika in May, I don't know her names in the 2 clubs, anyway she well knew that I was fluent, so I surrendered. In less than 5 minutes it was like if I had been in that club since a few years, as usual, with the girls playing with their (new here) toy, the fact of having only 4 men in the club at that moment made things even easier. Finally I spotted ex Venus Bianca. She being very professional, as usual, just greeted me but kept distances. Note: she was the only one of the 3 already met who I had zimmered, anyway I chose girls new to me.

Guys, thanks for updating this thread.

I been at Grimberg and Arabella last March and I had alot of fun.

Will be back in NRW next October, and I would like make a great tour around some of this club (Grimberg, Villa Venus, Verena, Arabella, Romantika, Alina).

Your information and advice will be very important to help me to decide which are the best club.

Keep it up.

Cheers.

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1597311]So Romantika changed price structure: as I posted, when I had been there in May I had paid 60 entrance with one zimmer included, 30 euros for the following sessions. About zimmering a different girl between 2 rooms with the same one, also a guy in freiercafe wrote it doesn't make any difference, you still should pay 60. Another guy wrote that Arabella is not using it (in this moment, they should be crazy). Or maybe I was just lucky.
And in Verena I zimmered the same girl twice consecutive in 5 minutes, actually after some 15, because we stayed on sofa some 10 minutes. Interesting in this club, I noticed that girls don't go to TF before zimmering to take keys, so actually she doesn't know how long a girl stays with a customer and if she's in the room or not. In fact it was me insisting to come out of the room after more than 40-45 minutes, also because I was worried about the rule of paying 120 for one hour (which works in Arabella). I asked the girls about this rule and they didn't know about that, I was worried that they may try to cheat me, being new to the club. After the third room I realized the matter of the key and understood that the girls were in good faith. It was my first visit, next time I'll pay more attention to this detail, since it seems too good to be true to me, even if it would make sense: a girl willing to stay longer with you can take longer time on the couch before zimmering, and action can be started and carried out also out of the room.[/QUOTE]There is no mention of a entrance fee on their website.

The only information on price is ;29.95 for 30 minutes.

Have they changed the price stucture once again?

[QUOTE=Whorist;1597849]There is no mention of a entrance fee on their website.

The only information on price is ;29.95 for 30 minutes.

Have they changed the price stucture once again?[/QUOTE]Entrance fee to all the clubs is 30 E. But I'd you buy a Bild zeitung, you often can get free entry in some of the clubs or get the chance to have the old 40-70-90 pricing. Your best bet is a Bild from Munsterland, but the Ruhrgebiet Bild's might also have some coupons. Just check, the adds / coupons are always on the next to last page.

I arrived before 3 pm, my friends were already there. Again Barbara in great mood, even greeting me warmly. Until 1-2 months ago she had always been quite impersonal towards me, maybe I conquered her when I had told her that I was wishing she had been working in Arabella, since she is a great TF, capable of keeping situation under control and make girls work properly.
The rest was more or less like yesterday. Elena was still a bit in crisis, the fact of seeing me soothed her, I had told her I would have very likely come back. Natalie had her smile printed on her face, was sitting beside her with another girl, they left me alone nursing the sad honey. We shouldn't forget that these machines are also human beings, facing quite hard lives. I remembered in my previous trip a zimmer had in Arabella, a girl spoke 22 minutes (!) on the phone, I listened to all the conversation with the crying children and her unaware father, who was taking care of them in Romania, all the lies, all the excuses, all the promises, etc.
Anyway, Elena recovered very quickly and we did what we had to do, I'd say she enjoyed it too (she said so and thanked me, but we know these girls are good actresses). Between couch and room, nearly one hour and a half. I went to rest by my friends, but I would keep an eye on her, inspite of knowing she was in good hands, her colleagues' hands, in Arabella it would be more likely that colleagues give the coupe de grace.

On my way, I spotted a new face walking around aimlessly, actually going to hide. Short, slim, average face with a lost-in-space-expression on her face. Another deb, this time there were no doubts about she having worked somewhere else. First day ever in the business, WTF, I had to try, just for the sake of it! The fact of "deflowering" a girl lit in me the spark that I normally don't have in Venus, otherwise she wouldn't look worth a zimmer. Also, I couldn't go only with Elena and I already explained about my (lack of) attraction for the rest of the crew, apart some for Natalie.
On the sofa she was quite tough, pratically I was trying to approach a normal girl, LOL!, and she seemed to refuse me aggressively, inspite of her shy look. My friend tried to be moderator, we had discussed who should have gone first and he left the honour (?) to me, since I saw her first. After some insistence, she gave in. Going to TF for the key, she made me notice how badly Elena was looking at her, I went to kiss her and promised we would zimmer again later.
In the room we had a bad beginning, pratically continuing what we started on the couch. Not really kissable, basically due to bad breath, worthless blowing, I was not fancying any foreplay with her, so I just decided to go straight to the point: ficken! She hadn't had sex for a lot of time, she explained to me some personal facts not necessary to be disclosed, but I didn't care that much about them being true or not, I had already had my share of sad stories and I was disappointed for the way things were going in the room. Anyway, after struggling to put my dick inside, I could see how unused to sex she was and that aroused me a lot. In brief, I fucked her in quite a few positions, staying in the room for over 50 minutes. Our window was open over the garden, she kept screamingand groaning, heartily and genuinely, for all the time, she moaned at each stroke. I could imagine, nearly hear the laughters outside. She had long nails which she used to plow my back on mish, while biting my chest, neck and arms. I enjoyed it tremendously but I had to change position to avoid needing stitches, however she would always find the way to plant her nails wherever she could, when she was not pulling me towards her. I even felt my dick receiving at least 2 showers. When we finally walked downstairs, I can't tell you about the comments and interviews, I got congratulations, so funny. I paid the 30 euros expecting overcharges or reproaches, but everything was fine. Then she disappeared, declaring being broken down.
I visited Elena and went back to my friends in the garden, where I got applauses, if there had been pens in the club, maybe I would have had to sign autographs! A couple of hours later, my friend unearthed and zimmered her, but they came back quickly downstairs because she couldn't perform, onlookers laughed for that, but my friend and specially Barbara didn't, I felt sorry for this girl whose name I don't even remember for sure.

Eventually, I kept my word with Elena. One reproach: towards the end of the session, probably thinking to be funny, I don't think to "punish" me, she sucked my tongue out my mouth, pratically I couldn't use it anymore. I couldn't unload either, but it didn't matter.
She asked me to go back the following day, I told her that I couldn't go there everyday and not only for her, underlining my regret for not being able to kiss her anymore, but I reassured her we would meet soon.

Got out at closing time, a bit worried for my war injuries but wishing to have been able to stay longer. A memorable day, I had lot of fun with my friends and the girls, I hope to have other days like this.

P. S. Whorist, read well, Varenne wrote that, not me ;-)

[QUOTE=Whorist;1597849]There is no mention of a entrance fee on their website.

The only information on price is ;29.95 for 30 minutes.

Have they changed the price stucture once again?[/QUOTE]Last time I was there it was free entry, and you had to pay up-front for all the sessions. At happy hour time (10-12 and after 21) prices were: 1 x40,2 x70,3 x90. I think at other times it's 1 x60,2 x90,3 x110.

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1597982]
On my way, I spotted a new face walking around aimlessly, actually going to hide. In brief, I fucked her in quite a few positions, staying in the room for over 50 minutes. I paid the 30 euros expecting overcharges or reproaches, but everything was fine.[/QUOTE]Ok, I don't understand how you paid only 30 Euros for 50 minutes. Can you explain the math on that one?

[QUOTE=UltraHappy;1598076]Ok, I don't understand how you paid only 30 Euros for 50 minutes. Can you explain the math on that one?[/QUOTE]When I went to pay I had 30 euros in my hand. 2-3 girls on the way and by the counter made me notice how long we had stayed in the room, I told them to shut up! Also in the garden they made me notice that, but I had already paid, so I was more friendly. Barbara was busy writing and reading something inside the bar, away from where you pay, for a second I thought she was going to show me some strange calculations. I had to wait for about one minute, which seemed an eternity. I was expecting a request of 120, at least 60, on top of unpleasant discussions. Then she came, smiled, took the money, gave the token to the staggering rookie and that was it. Maybe she didn't realize it, and my victim didn't claim anything, so I got away with that.

Generally speaking, I have been many times more than 30 minutes in a room, last year it was more common, this year it hasn't happened often, and it has been a matter of a few minutes, never more than 40. My record was about 45-48 minutes last year in Arabella, this year they came to call and knock on the door a couple of times, as soon as the permanence was trespassing 40, anyway nowhere I had ever been over 50-50+.

I must say that also the rooms with Elena got overtime, especially the last one, because I couldn't unload and we carried on a while more, but just a couple of minutes after she sucked my tongue, I said it was enough.

What can I say? Sometimes I'm lucky in receiving "extras", but as I said in a recent post talking about Verena, why pre-zimmer time is pratically unlimited but once you enter a room you must walk out in max 30 minutes? To leave rooms free? Ok, but if there are a few customers, then it doesn't make any difference, because they won't fill all the rooms!

I had been willing to try Verena since the beginning of April, but I had never found the will or the push to do it, for one reason or another.

I defined "memorable" my day 2 in Venus for the action, the experiences, the "emotions", basically the fun with the novice and the extended extensive college-like kissing with Elena, surely not for the bodies or beauties I dealt with, so it was time to change place. Arabella was out of the list because of the desolation (BTW, in freiercafe they say that the rule of double-charging the repetitions is being applied, Sandra left, I don't understand if for that reason); Grimberg because of the discussed health matters; Alina seemed even more distant or more problematic to reach; I didn't have a good memory of quality and quantity in Romantika; other AO options didn't attract me due to costs (Angelique) or unfuckability of the girls seen on internet sites, etc. This time I could, I had to try Verena, no excuses, reports were good since a few months. Ok, sometimes posters exaggerate, but I had always been wondering which RTC club could afford to deprive itself in one go, after only 3 weeks, of 2 girls like Alexandra and Sabrina 2, nothing extraordinary but surely physically and optically unusual in those environments. What were the other girls like? Maybe posts were really reliable?

Well, after long time, I found myself in the situation where I didn't know which girl to choose first (and after), but not in a group of "less worse", but rather among girls I felt attraction for, referring to bodies and / or faces! The only MILF present could be considered totally unchoosable, the rest of the crew could peacefully be taken into account for good qualities, a spark could be born and would find oxygen to keep burning even among second choices. Obviously, I'm speaking with the eyes of a guy who normally visits Grimberg, Venus, Romantika, Arabella, I'm not used to Oase (but I've been there and well remember what walks around) and similar, so you must keep proportions.

The club is in an industrial area, a 10 minutes walk from Marten Sud station, which unfortunately seems not to be well served by trains.

The door opens in a very small sort of anteroom, on the left you have the area of the lockers, showers and toilets, on the right you enter the lounge. The changing area is quite big, with many windows, which keep it well aerated and enlightened, lockers are big too, more than Artemis ones, if I recall well, and maybe even of Oase's. I attach a photo. Flip flops are put on a shelf in perfect order, by size! I don't remember all the details, since I was shocked, I had such a feeling of cleanliness, tidiness, width, spaciousness, neatness, freshness, allover the club, not only in that part, everything seemed shiny, brand new and well kept, cared for, even the music was at a volume that would allow conversations, and, if I'm not mistaken, there wasn't music by the left side of the place (the one with lockers, toilets, ect.), which would let you rest in peace, have an undisturbed nap.

I was really miles away from my usual clubs!

In the toilet, in a "hidden" corner nearly out of sight, there are 2 urinals from the wall, a sink (there wasn't the soap, the biggest defect I could find) and then a proper WC, all with windows, with plenty of privacy (if you go to toilet in Venus, everybody will see you). Before the showers, a real anteroom with a mirror, benches and shelves to place belongings. Only problem with showers, like in Venus, is that you will quickly be swimming in a pool.

On the right side you enter the lounge by the counter, which is at your left, in front of you plenty of tidy towels (in Arabella in the last 2-3 months they were rationed like food in war time. There were none by the entrance, all by TF, at least until about 9 pm), divided by size (!), at your right a sofa and the small lockers for wallets. The counter is shiny, there were in abundance different fruits (not taunted, like those in Angelique, for instance), sandwiches, biscuits, sweets, and the inevitable dispenser of soft drinks. At its right you go towards some rooms, who have ventilator! At its left there is a sort of "room" with tables and chairs like in a bar, where you can eat or drink, possibly with girls :-))) In the other clubs they eat on their own, out of your sight, while you have no place for you to eat as a human being. This "room" leads to a nice garden, which could be kept a bit better. In front of the counter, there is a "corridor" hosting two rows of (I think) 5-6 sofas facing each other at a distance of roughly less than 2 metres, on the right side you have attached another lounge with even more sofas again facing each other at close distance, and a big mirror by at least one wall, then other rooms going leftwards, I had a bit of sex twice in this area before zimmering, it's a bit out of sight. The sofas, the usual ones, were the main thing that could remind me that I was in a RTC. BTW, even the carpets were clean.

Even porn movies are better than in other clubs, featuring Private productions with Silvia Saint & similar actresses.

I might have forgotten something, for instance I don't know where is the sauna, I didn't explore all the place, or I might have posted some incorrectnesses, but I'm sure I gave you some good interesting clues.

End of Part 1.

I already knew my probable 2 first choices from freiercafe, my eyes just agreed and confirmed. I made my rankings and decided to leave the best one for last, for obvious reasons.

- Maria reports about her said she was a hit or miss. Since I found her quite attractive, I added her to my list.
Ok face, pretty smile, not slim but with good, proportionate shapes, nice boobs, no fat, no cellulitis, firm body, goodlooking in the details and in the overall.
We had been joking a lot on the couch, she carried on also in the room, where I wanted to be more "serious". Unfortunately, she thought, actually expected, that I would finish quickly, maybe she just meant to prolong my fun by carrying on playing in the beginning of the session. We changed a few positions, she wasn't too keen on following instructions, she said I was hurting her when I was fucking from behind (spoon)!?! My dick got disappointed by the discussions and decided to leave us alone. She said she would try to make me finish by mouth, when my dick (promptly) suspended the strike, I wanted to fuck, she insisted for riding me. Before zimmering, I had informed her that I pratically couldn't use my tongue, since it could get out of my mouth hardly with the tip. Since she had already kissed me for what was possible, I accepted her request to kiss again and pull out my tongue. She sucked it again! Not funny, I protested, "fucked" one minute more then I told her we could go. In her honour, I must say that she wanted to stay more, she wanted me to finish, and we had been nearly 40 minutes in the room. I told her that I wouldn't complain about anything, I would state everything had been fine (I declared that in front of her by sofas when I was asked how it had been). I thought she agreed and walked out. Eventually, the other 2 girls I sessioned with told me she complained around about me!
Chances of repetition: in any other AO club I've visited recently, given her aspect, at least 93%. In Verena she might have a second chance but only after a few visits.

- Janina slim, nice little boobs, ok from all points of view, proportionate and firm, nothing extraordinary, but I couldn't spot physical defects. I must have read she had been in Venus, I wonder when, how could I not notice her, I'm sure I caught wrong days.
In the room she was not as hot as on the sofa, where we had had some sex. Normally I don't like public exposure, on sofas I kiss, really rarely I get blown and extremely rarely I get rided for a little while. She too expected me to finish quickly, we hastily changed some 3-4 positions, she too "suffered" a lot when I fucked her from behind (!). Differently from Maria, she "resisted" (?) until the end, I had told her that in that position I was likely to finish soon. When I released, after some 20 minutes, she wanted to get out of the room as soon as possible, inspite of me willing to stay the supposed 30 minutes.
Chances of repetition: same preamble of Maria, but at least 99%. In Verena I might skip her 1 - max 2 visits, I want to see if she can have a better behaviour.

- Sonia gypsy, pretty, slim, firm, she told me she has 4 children, by watching her body the only trace I could find was that actually her boobs are "a bit" sucked out, for the rest... I'm very sorry she's going to Romania the day before I go back to NRW in my August trip. I'll have to wait until September, we'll both be back roughly in the same day.
I had promised her since the beginning that I would session with her. She didn't trust me, all day along, she was openly doubting about me keeping my word, since I was going with other girls and talking mostly to other ones (and to funny and nice customers too), not minding her too much. But even only her eyes and the way she was looking at me would have made me session with her. After my zimmer with Janina she seemed to have lost the "hope", in the meantime new customers had arrived, but she really seemed to await me, inspite of the bad "reports" about me that her colleagues had spread (!). She must have thought that she was a skippable optional, while she was the real target, she thought I was teasing her, while I was sincere, I wanted her.
IMHO she's a great person, a great girl, a great session. After 40 minutes of passion, I hadn't unloaded, but she wasn't willing to quit. I asked her if we could re-zimmer, but immediately, not later. She accepted very willingly, I have thought she was to ask me the same question. When we went out and parted for showers, she refused at least 3 "offers" of other customers (seen by my own eyes), to come back with me. We had agreed that the other pretenders could wait or come back whenever, I could not, and I wanted to finish, to unload with her, not with another one, like had happened with the first 2 girls. Anyway, she too wanted to zimmer with me and gave me absolute priority. She made me notice the disappointed faces of the other girls (envious of the topscorer) for this repetition, specially those of my previous honeys. She had conquered another customer while they evidently had failed, wasting their chance and probably losing him, inspite of having been chosen before her.
We had some couch time with little action, then back to the room, where I peacefully finished after some 20 minutes. BTW, she didn't suffer any position, she never got tired, she never was in a hurry, she never refused nor tried to impose anything, on the contrary, she participated willingly, lovingly and actively to everything.
For another 20 minutes we spoke, cuddled and kissed for what possible, I'm still so sorry I couldn't use my tongue with her!
Left the room, I got ready to leave. I had already kissed her goodbye thinking that she would have been busy when I would be back. I don't know if her shower or whatever else she did took all the time I took to shower, get dressed, etc. , anyway, she wasn't in a room, she wasn't in somebody's arms on a sofa, (still customers around, including pretenders, about 90 minutes before closing time), she was waiting for me to accompany me to the door.

What can I say about her? Being already topscorer of the club, she doesn't need any advertising nor positive posts, so I definitely do not recommend her. Keep far! LOL!

The photos by the counter are glamorous and make girls look even better than they are. They have make up and are in positions which highlight their positive points.
I just watched the photos for the pleasure to see something nice, not only for the prettiness or "not ugliness" of the girls. Pics which can't be compared to the horrible and unwatchable ones of the other clubs, which mortify girls who usually are already not pretty on their own and make look ugly even those who are not: for instance, Arabella's Silvia had the body of a model, but she looked handicapped in her photo. When she confirmed (she had told me from my previous trip) that it was her last day of work, I couldn't help sessioning with her, inspite of knowing I wouldn't feel anything because she had told me she wouldn't let me get rid of the condom in no case, but she was such a gift for 30 euros! Furthermore, I've always been glad and honoured to be the last customer of a girl closing her career, even if you can never know that for sure.

Back to Verena, I'm sorry if my descriptions may not be too precise, but, as I said, I was like on drugs, like having hallucinations, finding myself in such an unusual environment inhabited by unusual, in quantity and quality, AO fuckable fauna. Remember to bear in mind the preamble about comparisons to what I'm used to in AO clubs, from all points of view.
Sorry also for not knowing the names, but rough descriptions can be of help anyway, there were also:

A very pretty faced girl, slim, short, with a belly suggesting me that she must have given birth recently, anyway fuckable without any particular efforts;

The blonde ex Romantika, must be about 35. Great, straight, firm body apart from small sucked out boobs, be*t*hy face, the problem is that she has quite a few silver and gold plated teeth, in sight. She's the only girl I wouldn't kiss in Verena, at least among those I come close to. I'll take her only from behind, no kissing and I will see about blowing;

A brunette slightly chubby, with pretty face;

Another brunette, slimmer and fuckable;

The already mentioned ex Bianca from Venus, well known fuckable safe bet;

The already mentioned unwatchable MILF;

Anna, met last year in Arabella, I would (will) go with her only for this reason, I owe her a session since last year, she reminds me of my AO beginnings. Even if she got more chubby than before, pratically on the unfuckable side, she has a pretty face and widely posted great skills, all reports have always been great about her, to the point that reading them used to scare me off last year. I will make the sacrifice willingly.
I'm forgetting another 2-3, and by reading freiercafe, I think someone must have been absent on that day, like Gina and Roxy (Rosa?)

Since not all that glitters is gold, I will share this unpleasant episode about the newspaper "Bild" of Munster (mentioned also by Free Dude), which has free entrances to many clubs, including Verena, Arabella and Venus, plus other ones, not only AO.
I knew about it from freiercafe, and when I saw a copy by the counter I asked TF if she could hand it to me. She must have thought I just wanted to give a look at the newspaper (but why, since she knew I was 0 in german?). After finding the page, I went back to the counter. When I asked her if I could cut the coupons (Verena's one was already missing), she reacted quite unkindly, grabbed it and eventually, unnecessarily theatrically and ostentatiously, tore it in pieces.
A few IFs: IF you had seen the scene and / or IF you had been in my shoes, and IF she had been a man, probably some of you wouldn't have resisted to the instinct to make her (him) swallow those pieces. I took a deep breath and walked towards the garden... It was my first day there, I had entered less than 2 hours before and was willing to stay, I wanted and want to go back, so I swallowed and tried to forget.

Conclusions: There have been many good things and a few bad ones, but surely I liked the club in itself and enjoyed the time I spent there. Basically we go to clubs for the girls, the sex and fun with them, so, even if the first 2 sessions had a few inconveniences, at least I laid girls I felt attraction for and handled willingly, all the rest counts very little, no matter what. Back soon.

That's all for this trip.

After reading the first part of EG's detailed report about Verena, last Friday, I was waiting the second part (which contains the info about the girls) in order to able to decide whether ornot to visit the club. But this Friday, the second and third parts wee not published yet. So, I decided to visit Verena, even Dortmund was too far from Dusseldorf. (my other options were Penelope or Villa Romantica). After having a not so succesfull visit to Verena, I thought I might do better, rather visiting Acapulco or Living Room, even for a noon time short visit, but this is not happened.

Yesterday, I had spent 120 Euro for four taxis to get to Farell Lounge and then return to DUS. Then to Living Room and return to DUS. Today, hopefully, I had wheels and not to have to rely on taxis to visit clubs. While cruising on Dormunt through highway, I realise that the other way of the autobahn from Dortmund towards Bochum is fully blocked by road construction, for at least 10 km. So, be warned and prepare your other itinerary options to return, if you want to visit a club in Dortmund.

After arriving the adress of Verena, I realise this is the old club BelAmi, which I managed to visit maybe ten times and liked it soo much two or three years ago. Now, the club changed name, structure, maybe management, but apart from that, everything inside remain unchanged, the decorations, the sauna, the showers, the couches, the rooms, even the cola automat is intact. After reading the first part of EG's report, I though that might be some niceimprovements on the interior of the club (actually, it is really worn out and at least couches and carpets need to be replace) but I found it isn't.

Before ringing and entering, I was a bit doubtful to visit, because I was waiting a new, higher class of AO club but only I find the old BelAmi in front of me. I waited a bit in the car and search the return alternatives roads to Dusseldorf which is not blocked by road construction. There were a punter left theclub and went to his car. I went to this guy, greeted and asked whether the club is ok and the girls were nice. He says, this is very nice, new opening since two months and there were 11 girls inside and they were all ok. This was a confirmation for me, and decided to give a try.

I was buzzed in by a fake blond girl (Anna). I went it and the TF told me this is 60 Euro to get in including your first session. I talked to her that I saw in their web page that is 50 Euro and she replied this is an old page from a year ago, and this is not valid any more. In Verena (like the old Belami) while walking to the theke, you may see the whole the lounge and also the line-up, if you have an eagle eye. My eyes were not that accurate but I see a line-up not to my taste. I should return on that moment to Dusseldorf, it was a mistake, but some urge told me to stay and sample the new Verena, and I paid 60 Euro to thekefrau. TF called a girl who she is supposed to speak some English but she had done was showing me around and spending some words (not full sentences) in Deutsch. Ok, I already visited this old club many times in the past and don't need a guided tour.

After changing, walked around to check the line-up and find that the girls were not to my liking. All of them were gpysy type dark Romanians. Don't get me wrong, I am aware that I am in a low end, low cost AO club, but I have been many times to Villa Venus, Grimberg, Dietzenbach and Bel Ami but never saw a line-up which doesn't match to my liking. I have been to BelAmi maybe ten times, and each time, I had at least found one or two talent which may cut in an FKK, I was banging four girls for 100 bucks, those days (Ok, service was different, shortish, not full service and no AO etc) but still I had rather to bang a 7 with low service to a 3 with a full service. I swear I would not visit to AO clubs so soon, not before winter, because the line-up is not that strong and my Dietzenbach visit was not that succesfull either last month (but I believe, Dietzenbach has still the best line-up of all those AO clubs VV, Grimberg, Verena, never visited Arabella, Romantica, Alina yet).

I was in a situation to decide whether to stay and spend my only session or ask to TF (which seems not being that friendly) a refund, half the amount of my entry money and quit without sessioning. Then I decide to stay a couple more minutes, checked the card of Anna to see she does everything than I found her. She was the only fake blond girl, the skin was pale too, not the dark type, a bit on the chubbier side but still ok, so it might run. I sat by her, started to kiss, DFK on the couches. After a while, she ask if we proceed to room. Why so hurry? Ok, lets see it.

In the room, everything started nice, with DFK kisses, hugging, nice sloppy blowjobs. She reaches a condom even without asking. How does she know that I don't do AO, maybe not all the customers do AO here, who knows. She rushes to fuck, I told her to continue blowing me. After a while, she slip the condom and taked it and started to rod me on cowgirl, then I turned her down to mish, doggy, spoon. Evereything was running in order. She made everything I told her. She kiss and lick my balls, kiss nipples, she continue DFK while I pump her in mish. During doggy, I withdraw and slighty, I intrude her backdoor, I know she does anal. As she doesn't speak English, we were speaking Italian. She says "enculo, enculo, ma piano piano". Ok, I do it gently. Now the full lenght of my member were into her ass and she was large. I started to a faster pace trusts and she doesn't try to stop me or slow me down, so I continued with this momentum.

Then she tried to changed position, maybe shedoesn't like doggy while using backdoor. She lay me down and started to rod me on cowgirl, and my little frined was on her ass. I am not a big fan of anal sex, never paid an extra for that, but I do it occasionnaly when offered. She has now her full power and full weight to my penis and she was moving her ass fast, maybe she tries to reach me to completion during that position. But after a couple of minutes, I asked I want to change it in her pussy. Now, that moment was the breaking point in our session. She pissed me of, she had to change the condom etc. She told me I had to finish, even it was only twenty minutes in the room. She changed condom and lay down like a dead fish. I pumped her in mish but she doesn't kiss any more and she repeats I had to finish. I slipped the condom and started to wank and I told her to blow me, she didn't do it, just gave me a hand job. I told "la bocca", "sperma in la bocca". She replied "nicht in mund". I could still jerk off with her mighty hand job but that was not the one I prefer and not the cause I visit an AO full service club. Maybe if I didn't intend to change from ass to pussy, she wouldn't [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] me off and finish the session in a good way. But still, the first twenty minutes of the session was good.

When we returned to theke, TF take the wristband, wrote her name Anna and ask Anal. Wrote "Anna Anal" on the wrist band and take out the paper, saying from now on, I can pay directly to the girls. From now on, I had no intention to stay in this club and return asap to Duss. I should never visit Dortmund, I should rely to Living Room or Acapulco for an early day visit. At least they were with 20 km distance from Dus. While I was leaving, an old dude came with a grocery shopping bag in hand, slipped a Bild newpaper and showed it to TF that. TF examined very carefully the newspaper and take it with her and confirmed the old guy this is ok. I saw old guy still paid 30 Euro to TF. This should be his first session money and the entrance should be free. In my hotel Dusseldorf, during the breakfast, I checked the Bild of Dusseldorf, but there were only an ad for Acapulco, and I didn't see an ad for AO club chain. Maybe you should check Bild while in Duisburg or Bochum area, should be much better than Dusseldorf Bild. As I won't return to these AO clubs any time soon before December, I don't have to worry about Bild.

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1599752]The newspaper "Bild" of Munster (mentioned also by Free Dude), which has free entrances to many clubs, including Verena, Arabella and Venus, plus other ones, not only AO.
[/QUOTE]I saw only the ad of Acapulco in Bild Dusseldorf but there were no any infor about free entrance. I left the newspaper at the hotel. Does that mean a free entrance to Acapulco as well?

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1599752]
Anna, met last year in Arabella, I would (will) go with her only for this reason, I owe her a session since last year, she reminds me of my AO beginnings. Even if she got more chubby than before, pratically on the unfuckable side, she has a pretty face and widely posted great skills, all reports have always been great about her, to the point that reading them used to scare me off last year. I will make the sacrifice willingly.
[/QUOTE]Was that the fake blond young girl? Not a MILF.

If she is the same girl, she is a bit chubby but surely on the very fuckable side in my book.

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1599752]Conclusions: There have been many good things and a few bad ones, but surely I liked the club in itself and enjoyed the time I spent there. Basically we go to clubs for the girls, the sex and fun with them, so, even if the first 2 sessions had a few inconveniences, at least I laid girls I felt attraction for and handled willingly, all the rest counts very little, no matter what. Back soon.

That's all for this trip.[/QUOTE]Hi Eastgoing,

Thank you for your info.

I have a couple of unrelated questions for you if you don't mind since I saw your old posts on Warsaw forum.

1. Do most brothels in Warsaw often have new girls or just the same girls in most of time? Because I just came back from Warsaw and will go to there again soon for one month. If good this time, I plan to stay there several months each year for mongering.

2. What is the best way to go from brothel to brothel? By public transportation? Because it seems to be very difficult to go to each brothel in the center without a bike.

Thank you very much for your advice.

I'm glad to read a post, even coming from the battling field, of another punter, I was worried this thread could become my personal diary, my own blog, LOL!

I'm sorry if I mislead someone, maybe I should have been shorter in my descriptions, or put less enthusiasm, but I thought I had been clear enough: it was my first visit there and I'm used to much worse by all points of view. After all, I had been stuck in Venus and Arabella in the 3 previous days! I had even written recently that I was considering taking a break in my trips to give time to the clubs to find something worth.

Anyway, Creature 2, you wrote that the club has reopened 2 months ago, so improvements must have been done from your last visit.

BTW, in Arabella some days ago there's been a flooding in the lower floor, in freiercafe they report about the bad smell and the fact that they can't go downstairs for the rooms and suffer by the showers and the lockers; Alina in Dorsten is closed since quiet a while, I didn't know at all, luckily I didn't try to reach it, so you could have been more unlucky :-)

A guy posted in freiercafe this update about the girls available 3 days ago:

New: Rita, Tamara, Narciza;

Coming from Alina, Dorsten: Alina, Sindy Felicitas;

Already resident: Ina, Mirabella, Kira, Sonia, Janina, Anna;

On holiday: Bianca, Kristina, Gina, Maria;

Soon on holiday: Mirabella, Ina, Sonia.

Since I know only 4 names, the 3 I sessioned with plus Anna, I'm sorry I can't comment on what girls you found. Honestly, bearing in mind that tastes have their importance and that I'm not affected by any kind of "racism", since I would and have banged all colours possible, gypsy included (if I like a girl I don't care of anything else, if she's black, yellow, red or blue doesn't matter), I can't believe you couldn't find a girl more attractive than Anna. Nor I can comment about the time and service she gave you, which sometimes can be subjective. For what I can say, I have reasons to think that with me she would behave better, specially regarding the clock(not)watching. I obviously will post our session, if I go with her.

About the "Bild", evidently it is printed in many cities, you need a copy from Munster, I don't know if and what the copies of the other cities offer in coupons. I just quickly noticed the coupons for the AO clubs, those who could interest me, I think there was also a coupon for Romantika, but I didn't care about this one, and there were a few normal fkks I didn't bother to mind.

As to the (fake) blondes, I saw 3: the unfuckable MILF; Anna ex Stefania from Arabella, actually not fuckable for my standards; an about 35 year old I had met in Romantika.

I wrote 3 long posts, I think I've put lots of info, I might have forgotten something more or less interesting. For instance, I forgot to post that Maria had tried more than once to kissmark me, after noticing my wounds from Venus. I wrote my own impressions... and I found out that I misled fellow punters. I'm sincerely, not ironically, sorry for that, I'll try to do better in next posts.

Cheers anyway.

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1601344]I'm glad to read a post, even coming from the battling field, of another punter, I was worried this thread could become my personal diary, my own blog, LOL!

[/QUOTE]
Don't worry, in October I will be there, and I will share my report again LOL.
Certainly will not be detailed and full of info as your, because my basic english.
I'll try to give some advice on girls.

thanks to everyone to upload this thread, because is my only way to have info about this clubs.
German forum like Freiercafè is to difficult for me :-(((

Back from a little trip, I found out more about the bloody Bild. Since I understand nothing of German, I trust very little google translator and I can't bother making too many searches, I'll just post what I got.

It must be from Munster, and it must be of the same day you are going to the club, you can't buy it today and go tomorrow, also, you must carry along the whole newspaper, not just a part. I came across a Bild and was expecting to read the name of the city in the main page, but in my blindness and ignorance, I couldn't find it, I post a few pics for you to see by yourself. If you go on [URL]www.bild.de[/URL] and click on Regio, which I suppose refers to the local editions, you will find many cities but Munster.

I don't know why I can't manage to put all pics together, I will try one by one. This is what the club, in this case Verena, will keep.
Note: the ad on the left, a club looking for girls. I noticed it after part of the newspaper had been cut, so I don't know what the ad said in the overall, anyway I recognized the phone number: Arabella. On top of what I had read on Freiercafe, having phoned to ask if new girls had joined since a couple of weeks before (with negative answer), I took the decision, for the first time ever, not to go there

Inside page, some simple adds and the free entrance to Verena

Other simple adds. I just remembered Creature2's question, the simple ad will not let you in

Part of the front page. How do I know where this copy came from? I didn't buy it, I just found it.
Posts will follow

Here is a link to a map showing the area where they sell the Munsterland Bild: [URL]http://www.axelspringer-mediapilot.de/portrait/BILD-MueNSTERLAND-BILD-MueNSTERLAND_673014.html[/URL].

Always on the inside of the backpage. Typically free entry to two of the RTC clubs. If you plan to go to more, just buy 2 copies. They often just take the whole paper, it is only 80 cents after all.

[QUOTE=FreeDude;1604700]Here is a link to a map showing the area where they sell the Munsterland Bild: [URL]http://www.axelspringer-mediapilot.de/portrait/BILD-MueNSTERLAND-BILD-MueNSTERLAND_673014.html[/URL].

Always on the inside of the backpage. Typically free entry to two of the RTC clubs. If you plan to go to more, just buy 2 copies. They often just take the whole paper, it is only 80 cents after all.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the link, mate. Unfortunately those areas are out of my reach. Of course I wouldn't bother about the 80 cents or the whole newspaper, but it's pointless to buy many copies: you need the newspaper of the very day you are going to the club, even if you store 10 copies, the following day the clubs will not accept the coupon.

In Venus there is again the old bullshit 1 x40, 2 x70, 3 x90, entrance 20 euros. You can't repeat with the same girl on the same card, so if you want to go always with the same one you must buy single cards for 40 each (I suppose). Not even Barbara herself seems to know exactly the rules, surely the girls don't, and each one says something different. In the club it's "rumoured" that it will be like this only for August, but in the weekend it was back to 60 entrance and 30 every further session, so weekends should be always like that, I don't know about repetitions, no happy hours either but it was rumoured also that after 9 pm rules disappear. In brief, a disaster. On my first day I didn't bother too much, but on the second (and last) visit I told Barbara that on my next visit I will want to be free to choose whomever I like, and money won't be a big issue. It seems that exceptions can be done: Elena told me that another customer stayed with her for 3 hours, or maybe 3 times, paying 130, the maths escaped me.

Updates: Elena was cheerful, maybe because her iubitul from Romania is back; Natalie left, someone said she quitted; no news about Jasmine; Mara (Alexandra in Arabella last year) came back to Venus after some 3 months of holiday; Tamara, the deb who had sticked her nails in my flesh, had been there only on that day, only with me, I wondered what was she doing now; Ina, new to me inspite of having started working there 2 months before, left Monday night to go home and cure high fever and swollen glands in her throat and neck, unnice to touch, let's hope well; a fuckable blonde new to me, off on my second visit, for the rest no other news.

Sessions:

- Mara

I had promised to myself to session with the ex Arabella girls I would meet, maybe because in this trip I hadn't scheduled a visit to Bochum, and bearing in mind that I had promised a session to Anna in Verena and that I had paid for 3 sessions, I thought I had to go with ex Alessandra. I know it can sound funny, but I was a bit embarrassed, she too, even if less than me. Not kissable, she had a great body apart from the saggy boobs, now she's got slimmer and uglier. Anyway the session was fair, I enjoyed the great blowing I had admired so many times on sofas and we fucked in a few positions. We finished in a reasonable time, spoke a little, then left the room, to my relief;.

-Ina

Blonde, blue-eyed, pretty face, kissable, small boobs, reasonably proportionate. In the overall, physically speaking, the best choice possible, being "sufficient" in all "departments", but quiet unexperienced, cold, little good will, little participation and poor skills, not her job in my opinion. She even apologized for the poor performance, which anyway I didn't blame, saying that, among the other things, she had been embarrassed to session with a Romanian speaking man. Also Aida in Venus, and even Sonia in Verena, had had that "problem". The latter was clever enough to say it before hand, Ina said it after the session, Aida said it the day after having refused me a session! And she had already been with me once!

You must know that, out of Romania, Romanian girls can do whatever (AO, etc.) with anyone but cannot, for "internal" rules, do anything with Romanian men;.

- Elena

Already described, terribly pretty face, specially when smiling, even without make up, got a bit slimmer, if she loses another 10 kgs and fits the saggy boobs, I will die for her, LOL! We spent plenty of time together, I felt guilty in paying only 30 euros, but I didn't want to spoil her with tips, however there were nearly no customers. The club anyway closed at 1 o'clock and I enjoyed my several hours there.

More to come.

i arrived and gladly noticed that there was another tf, justina, young, from poland. the name of the, euphemistically speaking, rude, impolite, improfessional tf is katia.

i couldn't keep my laughter and let's-call-it-happiness when i saw my lost venus torturer, that's where she had ended up. tamara was by the counter, laughing embarrassedly, she became a bit red, i don't know how happy she was to see me.

this good start was spoiled by the dispute over the validity of my coupon, made harsher by the troubled translation of a bad interpreter. i had asked tf if she spoke english, she didn't and called a girl who spoke little. since i read on freiercafe that often in these clubs there are disputes over these free entrances and happy hours, i thought she wanted to cheat me. then anna, who fairly speaks my language, managed to make me understand the rules i already posted, so i actually had to pay. in the meantime it came out that justina spoke romanian too, we became friends and eventually i invited her more than once for zimmering: whether for money, for friendship or for love, but unfortunately she refused, what a pity, i can't tell how fuckable she is since she was dressed, but i'm sure it would have been funny, lol!
so, entrance 60 euros with one zimmer included, further sessions 30 euros each. you can repeat with a girl as many times as you like, as long as you don't go with her twice consecutively: to session repeatedly with a, you can do a, x, a, y, a, z, a, etc.

the crew had had a few changes from my recent visit, now i know a few names ;-)
missing: the blonde ex-romantika... back in romantika; sonia and maria on holiday and at least another couple of girls whose names i didn't know where not present either.
new faces: the mentioned tamara, narciza, 2 unfuckable blondes, juana.

sessions:

- anna: she remembered my promise, but waited for me to go and keep it. she had seen me when i was a shy scared "child" (not that now i'm a prof), abused by her fellow [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord127][CodeWord127][/url] in arabella. i told her that it was a bit embarrassing for me, which was true, but my biggest problem was that i found her unfuckable, i could save only the head. differently from mara the previous day, she hadn't any embarrassment, actually she was curious to session with me, the nice toy of her last year's colleagues. after a few pleasantries on the sofa, i told her i didn't want to make action there and we proceeded to the room.
she greatly blew me and i was responsive, but when it was time to fuck little head didn't feel like. she patiently regave him life and came on top of me. i've never dealt with such a fleshy girl, don't get me wrong, she's not a ball of fat, but it was difficult to run my normal-lengthed dick in and out her pussy in that position. we swapped, anyway little head collapsed again. i was so embarrassed and disappointed, in my head i cursed my decision to go with her, i felt shit, being much worse than she could expect or even imagine. i was looking for excuses like the excessive heat, which was actually true. i knew she wouldn't report my failures to the other girls, and not because she would fear to look like a liar, since my dick normally works, but because she's intelligent and respectful. however my pride of man was sinking in her incredulous eyes, and of course i couldn't tell a girl who had always been so nice to me, even in those tragic moments, that my failure was due to not finding her fuckable. neither i could count on time finishing, being it hardly at half session, and anyway she wouldn't have watched the clock nor accepted a declaration of surrender.
however, i don't even remember how, she admirably and commendably gave me life again and managed to make me fuck and even unload! this facts alone show what a great performer she is and what great service she can give. i think she nearly made a miracle in the conditions i was, i can't help confirming all the good posts she's received and praising her. i strongly recommend her.

- kyra: nice, fairly pretty, funny, cheerful, playful, good shapes, slim, little boobs, some ugly-to-watch marks by her lower tummy and pubis which must be from pregnancy. we fell in love on a sofa in the back lounge, i was embarrassed to walk in front of anna with an evident erection under the towel, something not uncommon for me, even if i don't like that, but that would make me feel even less at ease that day.
kyra gave me great fun, good blowing and good fucking, she kissmarked my neck and left a couple of dental records over my chest. i couldn't unload after nearly 40 minutes and she wanted to leave, but i will repeat her for sure.

- juana: joined 4 days earlier from planet happy garden, clearly out of place by all points of view, she won't last. quite impressive, physically and visually, specially for these clubs. tall, simply beautiful, hair like venus' elena, to fix her only weak point she should reduce her boobs. she stays on her own, no eye contacts, actually tries to avoid being chosen and the service, if we can call it like that, is not good at all. when i sat by her, we found out that we had some things in common, so she opened up and we spoke a lot. i sensed it wouldn't be a good session, but couldn't help trying, you won't meet often a girl like that in an ao club, really wasted, really a gift, physically speaking, since i think that the service wouldn't improve even if you paid her 500 per session. i was even luckier than the other customers in receiving the (scarce) treatment i got. we both suffered some 35 minutes, she wanted to leave when i was close to unloading, she made me notice that with the other customers she was out in max 15-20 minutes, which was true, i saw once her back after 10.
normally, you do a favour to a girl and to fellow punters when giving a good evaluation, in her case i'll do a favour to both parties in not recommending her. more about her in next post.

- tamara: already described, she has no make up, not a great skin either. we spent some time together in different occasions that day, in spite of her being another girl who tries to disappear. i asked her if she had got used to sex now and if she was still capable of giving me the same fun of our first time. she smiled with her enigmatic, teasing expression of detachment and superiority (if i can call it like that, without meaning to despise her or that she despises interlocutors), but she didn't answer. wtf if she was! she succesfully carried out the task in some 35 minutes. again, she would bite my arms and chest. having already being wounded by kyra, i gave her a pillow to bite, because when she has orgasm she's more dangerous, since she loses the control of the grip. little i could (and wanted) to do for my torn back and shoulders, again plowed by her nails, at least until i felt a drop of blood leaking and realized it was time to abandon mish and switch to a safer position. i asked her if she was like that also with the other customers, she said she would let herself go that much (and that loud!) only with me, which was why she chose the farthest room.

my pride of man got up to where it was (actually even higher) before the shameful session with blameless praiseworthy anna, and even now, while writing, i'm having huge hard ons, lol!

I went back the following day, Justina was there again, good, unfortunately Kyra wasn't. Before leaving I had told Alina, ex Bianca in Venus, that she would have been my next session. This trip was going to be a "refresh" of my beginnings, I had been in Venus before going to Arabella, but it had been extremely different.
When she saw me, from the bottom couch, she smiled at my wink and flying kiss, but sitting on the very first sofa there was...

Juana: 19 year old, slim, extremely likely to leave, nearly perfect apart from her out of proportion boobs, the previous day I hadn't unloaded with her, I had to try again. She had "apologized" for her poor performance saying she was tired, so I asked her how was she feeling in early afternoon, ok was the answer.
She insisted to go in her room, like the day before. A real sauna, after 5 minutes she agreed it was better to move somewhere else: she was sweating laying like a corpse, imagine me having to work on her. She does all she can to interrupt the action, she talks a lot, she wants to change position and / or action, really problematic. To see if I could defrost her, I even spontaneously went down to lick her pussy, against all my principles, specially in an AO club. I had done it only twice on insisting request (nearly a blackmail, LOL!) of a girl a couple of trips ago, for the rest, I can count on my hands the pussies of bi*ches I have licked. Anyway, again I didn't unload, we left the room after some 35 minute, both relieved. I wasn't upset, that's just the way she is, she doesn't do it on purpose, like does Janina, for instance, skillful but lazy, without any patience and in a hurry.

Later came the round of Alina. About 1,60, ok face, prettier when smiling, small boobs and perfect until the hips, unfortunately her ass and thighs look a bit like inflated, but less than last year, anyway surely tolerable. Very professional from all points of view, I think she's the most professional bi*ch I've ever met in clubs (and not only there probably), in every thing she does, a real programmed robot, meaning it as a compliment. Never a word, a gesture or a behaviour out of place, never a complain or a puff, she doesn't sell nor foster any "illusion" or passion in what she does, in and out of the room, she never tries to "cheat" or take any advantage, she just does, very well, what she has to do. She doesn't hunt nor try to invite any customer, not even by eye contact. I was nearly surprised she looked at me and reacted with a smile to my greetings when I entered. In my previous 2 visits in Verena, she had hardly acknowledged me (the same when she was in Venus), of course she had recognized me, but she didn't go beyond a simple glance, onlookers could have thought we never met.

We spoke her set time on the couch, actually I don't remember who of the 2 said to move, but she doesn't feed long discussions, you couldn't stay hours with her, specially just talking. Anyway, I must have made her melt a little, since she asked me something off menu, specially her own menu, and that I don't remember having seen happening: "lift me and take me to the room", like a bride. She was the very last girl I would expect to ask or even only accept such a thing. The problem was that her lower part is heavier than her upper part, I headed to the closest room, LOL!
The session in the room was technically perfect in its mechanicalness: kissing, blowing, fucking, swapping, timing, all by textbook, if there was a school or a class for this job, I couldn't imagine a better model, a better teacher. Perfect even during an unexpected power outage: I had a moment of "weakness", due to the heat, after some 25 minutes. No panic, no emotions, no reaction by both, I jumped off the bed and put the ventilator beside us, on the bed. Immediate recovery by mouth, restuck inside in spoon position, I unloaded on the 30th minute, 2 quick words and out. A masterwork! It should have been taped and shown to "pupils", beginners and even "experienced" pros.

I didn't know with whom I could have made the 3rd session. I wanted Juana, obviously only for optical reasons and hoping to finally water her. I walked by and she invited me on her sofa. But it was just for a chat, maybe to look busy and avoid other customers, she refused me the zimmer.
Never mind, the "best" solution was promoted by the unfackable MILF, she suggested Janina, sitting in front of me beside her. I told her I knew she didn't like me, that it wouldn't have been good for both of us. There were pratically no other customers around, I underlined that to make the MILF understand why Janina was considering zimmering me. In fact, she decided to come anyway on my lap, inspite of my warnings. Of course I wouldn't kick her away, but it was evident we were going against evidence, we simply don't match. Anyway, I wanted to give her a second chance, she has a good body even if she's short, and we are talking about 30 ridiculous euros, a little detail which should never be forgotten!

We both made efforts in the room to carry out the task, I even wasted one minute of my life licking her pussy, again spontaneously, obviously with fingering forbidden. The nicest thing was that in that room the light would last very little and then go off in absence of movements at a certain height. I was happy I could avoid seeing her face, not too pretty, and her bloody expression. I thought it would be the same for her, strangely it wasn't, maybe she wanted to keep on firing me with her eyes, LOL!, anyway I managed to keep her down enough to have some time in total darkness. Always too hot, obviously not referring to her (but she was a volcano compared to Juana), I had another moment of weakness, her reaction was miles away from surgeon's Alina, planets away from Anna's. Once quickly recovered, she (again) didn't want spoon. When she surrendered for the possibility that I would finish quicklier, she started puffing strongly and noisily every 10 seconds. 30 minutes had somehow passed, we (including Little Head) were going nowhere. It was a liberation for both to leave the room, I wasn't upset, strangely she wasn't either, we even joked a lot eventually, with the MILF and even with Justina, about our reciprocated attraction and passion.

Alina invited me to the garden for company, I was surprised and honoured, and I would have welcomed a session with her. Unfortunately, she too preferred not to rezimmer me, since I'm a tough customer (because I last too long, not because I'm impotent, as this post may suggest, LOL!). Tamara was hiding somewhere, I grabbed Narciza when she walked by.

Ok face, short, slim, I had been with nearly all the club, she would have been one more notch. She was very often with Tamara, maybe she could be a similar experience. She walks around with a towel covering her from chest to knees. Mmmh. I had already seen what was underneath, not that inviting, but it would cost 30 euros.
She must be a lovely girl, to marry, but she's a total zero from all points of view. She said she started working a couple of weeks ago, I think it must have been the second time she came across a dick in her life, since she must have had at least one child. Zero in blowing, I tried to fuck her, but I realized something was wrong: she had menses! She didn't even deny it, I told her that we could go, she agreed, but misunderstood the point: I thought nobody had seen us zimmering, instead somebody had seen us and furthermore she expected to be paid. I felt sorry for discussing the matter, I said I could even pay if it was a problem, but Justina unkindly said to her that I didn't have to pay for staying 3 minutes in the room. I didn't give nor was asked explainations, I don't know if she did, anyway it was late evening and I was the only customer left, no need to stay longer.

Anyway I didn't regret going there, I will do it again. Out of any other detail, I zimmered 12 times in 3 visits 9 different girls, in other clubs I would take months to reach that amount of girls, and only this poor last girl was a regret. Even the session with Anna gave me some pleasure and satisfaction, Tamara was great for the way she undergoes (LOL!) sex, all the other sessions were with girls I felt attraction for, so I'm glad I discovered this place... at least until Oase, Artemis, etc. turn into AO clubs with the same usual staffs, LOL!

Eastgoing,

When Verena is running the 60 euro entrance, which includes the first session, and each subsequent session is 30, do you have to return to the TF and pay after each session or do they make a note on your key chain and you pay at the end for all of your sessions? Just curious as to how it works. I was in Grimberg over a year ago and they were running the 40 X 1, 75 X 2, and 110 X 3 or something to that effect. Each subsequent session after the first three were 30 but I never got beyond 3 to see when payment was due.

Thanks, Burma.

Burma,

Apart from partytreffs, where you pay once for all when entering, in all clubs you pay cash as soon as you finish each session, unless you happen to go in a club where there is this bullshit of the prepaid choice 1,2,3. If you want to make more sessions than you bought, you must pay in advance another card. That's what I did on my second day in Venus, which I'll describe in my next post.

Back in Venus, I had read in freiercafe that the day before they were back to 60 entrance, but Barbara said that would work only on weekends. WTF, I had gone there on Friday and Monday! I tried to take advantage of her good mood at least regarding repetitions, she seemed close to surrendering, in the end it was me who surrendered. During the negotiations more than a girl tried to make suggestions while translating, I got disappointed for the fact that the only one who should have moved her ass was instead sitting idle, even in front of the counter! I mean that girls without interest or who would have had only to lose from me having the chance to repeat, were trying to be of help, while Elena, the target, the beneficiary, wasn't participating. I couldn't and didn't want to stay centuries by the counter discussing, so I ended up paying again 3 rooms. Later on, it came out that maybe I would have done better by paying 40 to have a single room in every card and be allowed to choose freely.

On my previous visit I had already told her off for her carelessness and lack of effort and cleverness in certain matters, but Elena kept telling me that she was scared of TF, she didn't want to get involved in discussions with her, actually I'm not even sure about her german skills.

I sessioned with:

- Magda: already zimmered once long ago, she's slim, I guess some 167 tall, has an average decent face, proportionate shapes, her main defect are the saggy boobs. She seemed incredulous to see that I wanted to go with her, a mixture of surprised, honoured and embarrassed. I told her I had to thank her for her kind help. She is very sweet, she does all she can to please you, she is not that skillful in blowing nor that hot in fucking or kissing, but she really does her best, gives all she has (literally, since she makes anal too). Her committment and behaviour are irreproachable, impeccable. She transmits peace and tranquility, no pressure, no refusals, no hurry, no puffs, no tricks, no complaints, no troubles at all. No clockwatching either, I unloaded after nearly 40 minutes and we left the room. Surely recommendable.

Then, after looong couch time, I sessioned with Elena, without unloading. She didn't like my war injuries from Verena (Janina had even made a slight refresh with her nails on my back, already plowed by Tamara). I told her that she had already given me huge worse damages on my previous trip, not to give me anymore. Now, after 6-7 days, I still carry little visible signs.

- Larissa: she completed the list of the girls already (or that should have been) zimmered last year. Nothing special, slim, short, not kissable, very small boobs but with nipples you could hang a painting to. What I wrote about Verena's Alina, from the point of view of professionality and attitude, works for her at a lower level, let's say 60%. I didn't remember how she was in zimmer. A couple of words on the couch then I asked her straight to the room. It took her a bit of time to understand that her evident fake annoying moans were not necessary, in spite of my repeated requests to quit them. Clamorous gaffe when, during a position change, I was still out and she was already "oooing" as soon as she felt touched by her pussy. She tried to make me finish quicklier, also by moving when I was asking her to let me do it, I was in a hurry too. Anyway, good blowing, no complaints, I perceived she wanted to finish asap but I knew she wouldn't have spoiled the session, which anyway I wanted to finish with an orgasm. Done in 30 minutes or slightly more. All in all, Larissa is surely a decent safe net.

When we went back to the counter Elena jumped on me and kissed me, I apologized to Larissa and gave her a kiss on the lips after carrying out the post session procedures. Since Larissa minds her own business and doesn't follow what goes on around, she then probably understood while I had been in such a hurry on the sofa for zimmering and, in my own way, in a hurry in the room, surely uncommon for a customer.

We had made calculations to manage to stay together "legally" as much as possible on spread whiles, allowing time for my and her sessions, in the end we betrayed each other twice each, from early afternoon until 23+. I had even suggested swapping partner with another couple to go and get keys and then rejoin upstairs, but it could be complicated and risky.

It was about 21 o'clock. I bought for 40 euros another card, actually I didn't get it physically, I just handled the money. I can't describe Barbara's expression, it was so clear that in 2 visits I had somehow burnt 4 rooms, specially the poor Larissa, who would have deserved more attention, and that I was still spending money I wouldn't have spent without those stupid rules. I didn't go there to session only with Elena, for instance I would have taken Ina anyway, but surely most of rooms should have been with her, instead they had been a minority inspite of what I had paid.

Elena wanted to go to the garden, after a while she went to get drinks, came back and asked me if she could accept an offer from another customer, I told her to do what she felt like. She stayed with me. WTF, she didn't even ask for a, maybe partial, refund for the damage, nor I offered. Later on we zimmered, again I didn't finish, but it didn't matter, my dick was pratically burnt by the intensive rubbing against pussies that often would get dry inspite of spitting and gel, not to mention teeth and some rough handling.

Downstairs at nearly 23, to our surprise not closing yet, actually the bell rang and an old lad was let in.

The mission had been accomplished, after a few pleasantries and having reminded Barbara that next time I strongly hoped will be different, I decided to leave.

That's all for this trip.

A new RTC Club will open tomorrow with 11 girls in Hennef (Sieg), at the former location of the unsuccessful Chicken Ranch / Club l'Amour / Club Annabelle:

Name: FKK-Annabella.

Address: Reisertstraße 20,53773 Hennef (Sieg) (suburb Stoßdorf).

Phone: +49 2242 9696840.

Opening times: every day 10-24.

Entry price: 10€.

Session price: 30€ (half of an hour, all extras included).

The club motto (no champagne, no cheating, only service counts!) sounds like a quip towards the nearby (some 200 m away) Club Saint Tropez.

The club is located some 10 minutes walk away from stop Gewerbegebiet Hennef West, served by bus routes 527 (connecting Hennef (Sieg) and Siegburg railway stations) and 529 (connecting Hennef (Sieg) and Bonn railway stations).

[QUOTE=Varenne;1606793]A new RTC Club will open tomorrow with 11 girls in Hennef (Sieg), at the former location of the unsuccessful Chicken Ranch / Club l'Amour / Club Annabelle:

Name: FKK-Annabella.

Address: Reisertstrae 20,53773 Hennef (Sieg) (suburb Stodorf).

Phone: +49 2242 9696840.

Opening times: every day 10-24.

Entry price: 10.

Session price: 30 (half of an hour, all extras included).

The club motto (no champagne, no cheating, only service counts!) sounds like a quip towards the nearby (some 200 m away) Club Saint Tropez.

The club is located some 10 minutes walk away from stop Gewerbegebiet Hennef West, served by bus routes 527 (connecting Hennef (Sieg) and Siegburg railway stations) and 529 (connecting Hennef (Sieg) and Bonn railway stations).[/QUOTE][URL]http://fkk-annabella.de/[/URL]

[QUOTE=Varenne;1606793]A new RTC Club will open tomorrow with 11 girls in Hennef (Sieg), at the former location of the unsuccessful Chicken Ranch / Club l'Amour / Club Annabelle:

Name: FKK-Annabella.

Address: Reisertstrae 20,53773 Hennef (Sieg) (suburb Stodorf).

Phone: +49 2242 9696840.

Opening times: every day 10-24.

Entry price: 10.

Session price: 30 (half of an hour, all extras included).

The club motto (no champagne, no cheating, only service counts!) sounds like a quip towards the nearby (some 200 m away) Club Saint Tropez.

The club is located some 10 minutes walk away from stop Gewerbegebiet Hennef West, served by bus routes 527 (connecting Hennef (Sieg) and Siegburg railway stations) and 529 (connecting Hennef (Sieg) and Bonn railway stations).[/QUOTE]Is AO available at this place?

[QUOTE=RohanCid;1607250]Is AO available at this place?[/QUOTE]Yep, the girls have been recruited in the other clubs from this thread. Currently, Barbara from Villa Venus serves at the counter, and she brought along several girls from Duisburg.

After having my GPS go kaput, I managed to find a hotel in Hennef that I visited several years ago. It was interesting driving around town in the dark, not knowing where I was or what direction I was travelling in.

In any case, I stopped into FKK Annabella on the way out of town. It is located in an industrial area next to the 560, nearly at the end of the indicated street. The club is a little beyond where directions indicate it is and it has a red street sign with a pink building partially visible from the industrial road. Go straight around back to park and enter the club from the rear of the building.

The club has a nice layout and a large lounge with the frei girls sitting on sofas waiting you to join them. If you sit by yourself, they will wait for you to decide or eventually ask if you might be interested in a zimmer with them. The TF is at the main bar and gives you a robe, towel, and locker key, with the lockers and showers opposite the main door. Shower slippers are in the locker room arranged by size.

The cost structure may change as things go, but on the second day of their opening, the price was 9,99 for entry, 40 for 1, 70 for 2, and 100 for 3 including all extras. Sitting on the bar is a case with pictures of girls in attendance, indicating whether they have any restrictions. On this day (a Wednesday), there were 9 girls, 3 offered AO with anal, 3 AO without anal, and 3 safe, all CIM included.

Being a new club (and new to me), I chose entry and a one time session. As I understand, you could add on sessions at 40 each after your chosen limit. At this time, the girls appear to be borrowed from other RTC clubs in the area.

The girls, while not top quality, were rather nice with any being overweight, like some were in Haus Panthera a few days previous. I ended up choosing Anastasia (Ex Grimberg), a bottle blonde BU with short hair. Play started on the couch with kisses and a bare BJ, whereupon Anastasia asked if we should take a room. I suggested that we continue on the couch (directly across from the main entrance). She said no problem and ended up giving me a pretty nice cowgirl right in the front room. I don't know if that goes for all the girls, but it does for at least some.

So if you are looking for some public GF6 with GND type girls with few (or even no) limits, FKK Annabella is a pretty good choice. Whether the club continues over the long term depends on how much business they get. They had a nice steady slow flow of customers while I was there.

I am hoping to be near Dusseldorf area in a few weeks and would really like to try out some of the AO FKK clubs. I could drive between LaLuna, Villa Venus and Arabella searching for the line up that is most appealing to me but I'm hoping for a point in the right direction. Are there any recommendations for which AO club (s) would be best for a first timer? If it helps, I don't speak any German and I usually prefer beauty / slim bodies to raw skills but understand this is a different market.

Thanks everyone for this great board.

[QUOTE=Pytlover;1608465]I am hoping to be near Dusseldorf area in a few weeks and would really like to try out some of the AO FKK clubs. I could drive between LaLuna, Villa Venus and Arabella searching for the line up that is most appealing to me but I'm hoping for a point in the right direction. Are there any recommendations for which AO club (s) would be best for a first timer? If it helps, I don't speak any German and I usually prefer beauty / slim bodies to raw skills but understand this is a different market.

Thanks everyone for this great board.[/QUOTE]Raissa at Arabella in Bochum. Tall, slim & pretty. Also speaks some English. One of the hottest looking babes around with a runway models bod. Can be a bit moody at times, but most hot babes are.

Venus always is hit & miss. Sometimes great, some crap. You can always leave if the photos of the girls are not your type.

Pytlover,

If you can drive to Arabella you can drive to Grimberg as well, I guess more or less 10 minutes by car.
Vito gave you a good suggestion, but for a first timer Raissa may not be the best choice, probably she won't allow you more than a couple of minutes on the couch and will rush in the room to get out asap.
I would tell you Angie in Grimberg, she's slim, a bit shorter, not as pretty in the face, but she gives a great service, always smiling and never in a hurry, and she will probably beg you to fuck her in the ass too!

P.S. Lot of time we don't get posts from there, you could do that!

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1609394]Pytlover,

If you can drive to Arabella you can drive to Grimberg as well, I guess more or less 10 minutes by car.
Vito gave you a good suggestion, but for a first timer Raissa may not be the best choice, probably she won't allow you more than a couple of minutes on the couch and will rush in the room to get out asap.
I would tell you Angie in Grimberg, she's slim, a bit shorter, not as pretty in the face, but she gives a great service, always smiling and never in a hurry, and she will probably beg you to fuck her in the ass too!

P.S. Lot of time we don't get posts from there, you could do that![/QUOTE]Yeah, you're right. Raissa might be done with him after 5 min. Her BJ is not bad for a babe & when she jumps on top, I need to use some serious mental tai chi to keep from blowing my load.

Angie?! I know she gives great service, but she's rough around the edges. Yes she's slim, but her body has all these strange markings, scars & overall bad skin. Honestly, she looks like she survived an IED blast. Shrapnel scars all over her bod & face. She's a sweet woman, but.

Venus.

Jasmine has returned & she is a pretty good session. Cute face, nice slim model bod with nice tits. Not nearly as pretty as Raissa & her skin not as smooth. Gives a good BJ & she's also 185 cm tall w / o heels! She's not as wild or freaky as Angie & will not process you after 15-20 pumps like Raissa.

Verena.

Janina (ex-Venus) & Alina (ex-everywhere) are good choices.

Please clear some space in your PM account so I can respond to your PM.

[QUOTE=JimmyBoy99;1610723]Please clear some space in your PM account so I can respond to your PM.[/QUOTE]Done, thanks.

Since I'm posting, I congratulate with Vito for his description of Angie, funny but true, and I laughed also at Alina ex-everywhere. About Raissa, I've read that recently she made 3 customers in 35 minutes! Even without taking into account her skills, how much time and passion would she put for a man she has never met before?

Anyway we were discussing pointlessly, Pytlover said he will go in a few weeks, so no need to make suggestions for "today", plenty of girls may arrive or leave by then.

Angie. I eventually bailed on Angie as she was expecting me to go with her repeatedly. I'm not sure if I'd describe her as sweet. After she introduced her politics I found it hard to go with her. Her strong preference is for enthusiastic anal.

Had planned to finish my trip to Germany with A / O club visits on Saturday and Sunday but given the crappy line-up at Freude on Friday I decided to start my A / O club tour early and went to Arabella. Arrived there about 9:30 PM. About 10-11 girls, most not my type. Did find one slim, attractive blonde (forgot her name) and had a good session with her. Did not have a chance for a second session as they were getting ready to close since it was almost 11 PM (I hadn't remembered it closed so early), so I left.

Next day went to Verena in Dortmund for the first time. Again, about 10-11 girl's photos at reception. The Theke was explaining to me in German the prices when a pretty, somewhat chubby, blonde started translating to me in Italian. Typical red carpet club layout. After changing, I sat across from the blonde and asked her how she knew I spoke Italian. She laughed and said that I had fucked her twice in January at Arabella, though there she had a different name (Stephanie?), not Anna. I of course went to sit with her and soon she was giving me a blow job on the couch. I went to the room with her and had a great (although very sweaty because of the heat in the room) GFE session but did not come.

She suggested her friend as the second session but her friend didn't do it for me so I chose a pretty brunette. Given how hot it had been in the room with Anna, I went to the garden for the session but fucking on a chair that swings is not really very comfortable so we were reduced to mostly standing doggy, which seemed to tire her and thus I switched to BBBJ and came in her mouth.

After a rest and some food (which I brought), and not finding anyone else that struck my fancy, I again sat with Anna. Having seen from the photo that she did anal (management had recently asked her if she would offer anal (apparently there was a shortage of girls offering it) and she agreed), I told her I would like to do that with her but she said no, I was too big, that she only did it with Turks since they had small dicks, but maybe next time. Since I am not that big, it was probably just an excuse to not do something she wasn't in the mood for. I said OK and she started with the blow job and then mounted me on the couch but wrapped a towel around us so that the others couldn't actually see us fucking. After a few minutes we went to the room and had another great session, with cip this time.

Not seeing anyone else I wanted to do, I then left and went to Grimberg, hoping that Micky (with whom I had sessioned in June) was there, which she was. I sat with her and chatted awhile. Having seen on her photo that she did anal (which I had not realized in June) I asked her about doing anal and she too told me that I was too big. I denied it but she wasn't having any of it, so I desisted and she then started the blow job and soon we were in the room for another great session, with lots of DFK and ending in cip.

There was a very pretty, tall brunette, Kati, 20-year old Romanian who fucked a Belgian guy on the couch while I was sitting across from them after my session with Micky. The guy wanted to do another session with Kati but was told that he would have to session with someone else first or pay 60 Euro, which he didn't want to do, so he didn't session anymore at all. Kati was subsequently so engrossed in a fiction book about the theory of relativity that she barely paid any attention to anyone, including me, but I was finally able to get her attention. During our chat she stated that she had worked at various non-A / O clubs, including GT, and given her looks, it was certainly possible. I asked her why she was working at an A / O club and she said that she didn't like the atmosphere at the other clubs and preferred the family atmosphere of Grimberg. I eventually took her to the room after the preliminary couch blow job. It was a very nice session with lots of DFK but no come. After 5 sessions at Verena and Grimberg, I had nothing left so I went back to my hotel for the night.

I returned the next day and Micky seemed surprised to see me back so soon. I sat with her again and asked her if this time she would give me her ass, to which she said yes, but not too long or hard. She also said that she didn't want me to come in her ass as it was more difficult for her to clean herself there. I said OK and we started DFK, then blow job, and this time she sat on my dick (with her back to me) for a few minutes (in front of Kati), and then we went to the room. We started with her pussy and then did bareback anal for about 5 minutes, when she said to switch to her pussy. I fucked her there for a while and asked for her ass again, which she gave me for another little bit until she said that was enough anal and took my dick in her mouth and blew to an explosive completion.

For my second session I wanted to repeat with Kati but she refused me, saying she was waiting for a customer. While technically true, since they are all waiting for customers, it was obvious it was an excuse, for whatever reason (fucked too long last session, chose Micky for the first session of the day, fucked Micky in front of her, who knows) not to session with me again, as no customer came to her for quite a while. Being rebuffed by Kati, and wanting to get in another session before heading to Anubis, I chose a girl (name forgotten) who had been eying me all day since she did anal. Very bad choice. Fake noises and 15 minutes into the session she tells me time is up. I tell her no way, showing her what is playing on my computer. She finally agrees to continue, mumbling (no doubt cursing me in Romanian). It then occured to me that I did not see her go with anyone the whole time I was there and wondered whether it was only because of her crap service or something else, so I chose not to even ask for anal, which she probably would have declined anyway, given her attitude. I finally got so pissed off at her that I ended the session and left for Anubis (another mistake. See post in that thread.).

After the fiasco at Anubis, I went to Venus. Usual number (10-12) girls, most not my type except for Lily, but wanted to try someone new, so eventually chose Laryssa. Session started OK but she too was in a hurry for me to finish, which killed the mood and enjoyment of the session.

I was going to try for a second session but by that time I was the only guy left and the girls were wanting to close-up (even though it was well-before the official closing time of 12 AM), so I left for Frankfurt to catch my flight the next morning.

In short, 4 great sessions, one very good session, two good sessions, and two bad ones. If you get a good girl, to have 30 minutes of great bareback GFE experience including cim or cip and perhaps anal for 30 Euro is an unbelievable bargain at these clubs. I will have to devote more of my future trips' time to these clubs and less to non-A / O clubs.

Jimmy! We were there on the same day! That day I was with Anna too!

The "pretty brunette" who got tired in the garden was very likely Janina, if she was short. Or could be Juana, actually she was a bit more than pretty, if she was taller and with long curly hair. I restricted the candidates to those 2 because, out of what I experienced, they were the only ones who could "get tired" among all those I had tried in there.

The blonde in Arabella should be Gaby.

In general, it's not advisable to enter a club or to start a session towards the closing time if there are not other customers around, even girls giving a good service will be in a hurry, if not for themselves, for the other girls. It's a sort of agreement among them, so that they all can leave as soon as possible.

P.S. I'm just glad and relieved that you confirm the excessive heat in Verena's rooms, since I was worrying I may look (or maybe start becoming) impotent after what I posted, LOL!

Hey guys,

Actually, which one of this 4 clubs have more 3 holers?

@Jimmy Boy 99: Last March, my friend and I had a session with Micky at Grimberg too.

We did not have any problems for fuck her ass. Maybe because not too big) LOL.

[QUOTE=ChristianG;1612785]Hey guys,

Actually, which one of this 4 clubs have more 3 holers?

[/QUOTE]Venus, at the moment, but since a long time. I had posted a list in my july trip report because a fellow had PMed me about that.

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1612788]Venus, at the moment, but since a long time. I had posted a list in my july trip report because a fellow had PMed me about that.[/QUOTE]Thanks.

Maybe, I will contact you by pm before my trip in October, for asking some advice about a good 3 holers)).

Was in Venus last Sunday.

1st girl: Yasmine. She looks like a persian princess. Hot body. Very tall! (185 cm). Started with DFK, BJ, then covered sex. I had some difficulties to come, and the girl is tall so I can't make her move like I want. In mish, found myself expelled of the condom. We took it off and after a little thinking, I fucked her bareback. She rode me again and with a lot of efforts, I finally came in her. I think she hates me now because I killed her legs (too much sport for making me come! I had some little surprises after my BB sessions last year but the girl was so beautiful I couldn't resist.

2nd girl: Magda. Saw her last time in March. I like her student GND style but her breasts are really sagging, too bad. The girl is really playful, enjoying herself, sweet attitude. DFK, BF covered sex (no weakness these time) and I came in CG. My favorite girl of the day, I like the hugging, cuddling, playful attitude.

3rd girl: Larissa. She remembered me a bit of my March trip. DFK, BJ, covered sex, but she's acting too energetic for me (BJ was a little painful). No orgasm, I don't think I'll do her again.

The TF was a new one, younger, and the girls were more relaxed, dancing, . Flori danced with me, chatted with me, but I'm not really into chubby little girls with questionable hygiene.

4th girl: Elli, small girl from Turkey, 21 I think, reddish hair, hot body, speaks only german, litlle tatoo on her lower back. DFK, BJ, covered sex and she finished me with her hand. It was OK with her, she was anxious to make me come. Maybe I'll do her again. Her face looks better with her hair free than when it's tied.

Between 10 and 15 girls. Michaela, Melissa, Bianca II, Chanel and I forgot the name of the others.

I am Canadian with Latin roots, but have been mistaken for Arab, Israeli, Southern Spanish and Indian.

Would I have a problem entering the club?

[QUOTE=MrStyles;1615680]I am Canadian with Latin roots, but have been mistaken for Arab, Israeli, Southern Spanish and Indian.

Would I have a problem entering the club?[/QUOTE]Very possile. I am American, but "look southern". I was booted from Arabella just after I entered the door. To make matters worse they refused to even call me a cab. Since all three clubs are affiliated I reckon they have same pollicy.

[QUOTE=MrStyles;1615680]I am Canadian with Latin roots, but have been mistaken for Arab, Israeli, Southern Spanish and Indian.

Would I have a problem entering the club?[/QUOTE]Arabella was reported here someone was rejected on the door. Last year, I was in Grimberg and feels the vibe is not favor for non-white person. I was rejected service for excuse of not speaking English (by the way, I speak german). By observation, a group of three or four east asian (Chinese, japanese or korean), was rejected service by the girl by excusing not speak english. Even a young german guy was rejected service by the girl. Maybe just girls working that days I do not know. When I visit Grimberg, the vibe is very unfriendly. A german guy argued with a girl that day because he kiss the girl on the couch and did not want go room with the girl. anyway, at least that day, it is not worth visit. I paid three sessions and only have one mechanical sessions. After talk the front desk, the TF agree to only charge me 60euro and refund rest of money.This is only positive point because it is hard to get your money back in this kind of place. There is no place to sit. You cannot sit a couch which a girl already sit on. You will be given very unfriendly reminder from girls if you sit on it. Villa Venus is ok for any race and quite friendly vibe. I saw a lot turkish guy. If you do not have car, I would suggest not to try Arabella and Grimberg.

[QUOTE=MrStyles;1615680]I am Canadian with Latin roots, but have been mistaken for Arab, Israeli, Southern Spanish and Indian.

Would I have a problem entering the club?[/QUOTE]I have seen many Turkish clients at all RTC clubs, but not many darker skinned clients. Dietzenbach is the only place I have seen clients with darker skin.

New babe Rosa at Arabella. Just started a couple weeks ago. Total hottie. Was stunned when I saw her sitting on the couch. Pretty face, tall with nice slim bod. Brown hair, with pierced tongue. 18 yrs old. Service is good, but you have to remember she is only 18. Show patience & she can be tons of fun in the room. Attitude & personality 100% opposite of Raissa. Raissa total diva. Rosa, non diva (well, not yet).

Not sure how long she will last. Denise & some of the older hags were picking on her. Jealousy & pure competition turning some of the old guard into medusa. Doesn't have the strong personality like Raissa to tell them to F off. Maybe the move to Freude 39/ Joy or whatever in Bochum will be a good move for her. With 40+ women, the medusa hags will have other things to worry about.

I was 3 days in Arabella last week.

Girls on duty: romanians Beatrix, Denisa, Aida, Karina, Gaby, Rosa, Alexandra, Raissa, Maya, Alina (on Monday 8th she was in Venus); bulgarian MILF Mary, Katia (bul-tur); ger-brit MILF Michelle came back on Sunday.

Highlights of sessions and considerations:

- Maya: it was the first time I met her, really well over the average look of a RTC girl, actually really out of place for beauty and body, not perfect but not far from that. She had a way of looking at me that gave me the impression she didn't like me. Eventually I understood it's just her way of watching other people, she's not wrong in feeling "a bit superior", specially considering the partners she has to go with, and also the girls that surround her, actually no comparison in look and body, apart from alien Rosa, really a shame that 2 girls like them sell themselves (even AO!) for 30 euros. Of course I couldn't help being attracted and take whatever she would give me. A bit in a hurry both on the couch and in the room, not too accommodating or willing to follow instructions. We had some "disagreements", actually arguments, in the first session and some misunderstandings before making the second one: she didn't understand I wanted to repeat her and walked away from our couch! So I went with Beatrix, zimmered the day of my previous visit, when she was off. When we finally did it, Maya gathered the fruits of my session with her colleague, nearly 45 minutes without finishing. I grabbed her 5 minutes after the session with Beatrix and finished after 15 minutes. Maya wanted to leave the room, which burnt the tiny bridge between me and her, but I will of course rebuild it on my soon coming next trip.

- Katia, about 2 months in the club, on last day I took her instead of Maya following a friend of mine's suggestion. Sweet, willing to please you in all ways possible, anal included (if I recall well, since I didn't do that). A couple of plated teeth and a bum a bit bigger than needed for her proportions are her defects, for the rest she is okay.

- Beatrix: has a few dental problems and sucked out boobs, a "transparent" skin that lets you see the veins of her legs, but she gives great service, even too much: seeing her on the couch blowing and riding an 80+ year old would-be-corpse, who couldn't even walk, obviously full of viagra, made me feel sick.
A few minutes later, he did (underwent) the same thing with Katia. I wonder if these clubs have an insurance or some agreements with hospices, I mean just in case one of these old customers dies while riding or being rided by those young beasts, of course I'm not talking about STDs.
Anyway, I chose her everyday, she gave me great fun and satisfaction in the room, well beyond my expectations. I somehow regret not repeating her, but I gave priority to great better lookers. The fucking rule of putting a girl in the middle of repetitions requires careful planning and a bit of luck, in case your girl (s) is not available, which often happens with Rosa, mostly because she hides. Also, differently from many other girls, starting from the beautiful ones, Beatrix is quite demanding in the room. When I was sessioning with her, I was really working hard and coming out tired, while a room with Rosa can be considered pure rest, or defatiguing, in the hardest hypothesis.

i must disagree with vito about her performances, even if i enjoy and have a different kind of fun with her. if i recall well, she said she's been about 5 months in ao clubs, but already changed verena, alina and venus because nearly every customer complains about her (dis) service, tfs tell her off until they send her away. i've seen renata trying to give her instructions, like smiling, she even asked me how she had been in the room, question that i'm never asked in arabella, i've even complained to anna about that in the past (however i said good, of course). actually i don't remember, among consenting and capable of discernment women (not that i've ever raped or abused any), such a dead inanimated corpse. whatever she does, walking, talking, cleaning, she does it like if she was absent, the thing she does best is hiding, to avoid customers. but... do you remember edwige fenech? rosa is taller, slimmer, has smaller perfect boobs, but she could be her daughter, or edwige when she was 18, the face is the same. rosa is a real monster, with such a body it's even better if she sleeps in the room, so i can touch her, squeeze her, lick her from top to toes without being disturbed, unless i exceed in squeezing, try to finger her holes or tickle her. when i have had enough, i call her. our first session was nearly one hour, but i didn't take advantage of her, i was just enjoying her so much that i didn't realize the time going by! nor did she, lost in her world. the other sessions were well over 30 minutes too.
maybe it's just her nature, her behaviour, she sounds and behaves like if she really wanted to do something, whether to please you, to earn her money or to avoid complaints, etc. , but she can't find out what she could do (!). laying on her back with open arms and closed legs, staring at the ceiling and saying something like "what should i do? what (else) do you want me to do?" when you, drooling, try to wake her up, to interact with her, well, it's funny, but you really feel like being with an inflatable dolly. i can't believe her attitude and coldness, surprise and disorientation when i try to shake her and make suggestions about what we (i) could do. she has no malice, she doesn't mean to cheat you nor to take any advantage, actually it's more likely the contrary. she could make billions, and she would deserve them, she is worth a fortune, i can't understand why she is aoing in nrw for 30 euros when she could be asking hundreds of euros for hardly half an hour of (covered) shallow empty sex, which she anyway provides but risking her own and her customers' health.

sex, fun and service can be given, at different levels, by plenty of girls, but you won't meet often such a beauty. for 30 euros! ao! i took her only 5 times, but i'll be back soon...

p.s. all the "old" girls, specially some old glories and/or (ex)superstars, are disappointed for the presence of beatrix, maya and rosa, who work a lot, not only because they are new. but, while they "respect" the first two because they can defend themselves, it's true they are quite bad to rosa, who maybe doesn't even understand the reason of their hostility. and she does, unintentionally, all she can to "help" them, leaving customers waiting for her, telling them she will come "after" or "later" and then forgetting about! everyday i had to change my plan, my schedule, because i couldn't have her when i wanted. once i had to wait more than one hour and a half, and she had been with only one customer, 5 minutes on the couch and 20 in the room! once we came out of the room and there was a line of 4 drooling 60+ years old waiting for her and trying to make sure (lol!) that they could have the chance. once, at 22 o'clock, she said she couldn't come with me because it would cost me 60, since we had already been together. true, but that had happened at 16, i had already had other 3 rooms! then she went for a phone call. back at 22,20 she wanted to smoke, the other girls badly shouted at her to stop wasting time and head to the room because closing time was approaching, she slowly did it.

let's hope she will be transferred again, in the other clubs girls had a friendly attitude towards her, but arabella is surely the worst, the toughest place with the worst, the toughest colleagues (competitors? of such a model? or enemies?) she could find, a den of real snakes, hyenas. even i, a customer (even if i'm never treated like that, which anyway pleases me, i'm still a customer) receive plenty of "negativity", but i don't give a shit. actually i like to see some of the girls suffering just at my sight, and our conversations, sometimes arguments, enhance that, they really make me feel important, lol! funny also that some of them from time to time try to reconquer me. in this trip, after nearly 2 months of absence, with one only visit in nearly 3 months, i repeatedly chose all the girls new to me, rejecting several offers by a few old girls. if they all go to freudenberg, with many other girls, i will lose and miss all this, lol!

Not sure what happened to her during your visits. I did not experience any problems going to the room with her, or just laying there staring at the ceiling. Hiding or avoiding customers is news to me. Making clients wait? When you sit with her on the couch, she does take her time. Smoke & relax 5-10 minutes. Not a problem for me as I get to kiss & grope her hot bod. She does everything at her pace & can seem to move really slow when the girls are yelling at her to do the laundry & etc. For me, on the couch & in the room she was great. Not exactly enthusiastic, not a dead corpse either. She seems totally absent in everything else she does.

She was very happy to go to the room with me. I must have sessioned with her 14-16 times during my trip & all were fantastic. The stupid no back to back or 3 sessions with the same babe is ridiculous. I paid the 60 E anyway because she's just so damn hot. Yes, she was in high demand & there were plenty of other babes around. Raissa, Alexandra & Maya.

I am also not that demanding when visiting the rtc clubs. I refuse to be cheated in any situation, but never experienced any problems with the girls. Arguments? Girls suffering at my site? Not really sure what you do in the room or while sitting around recovering your juice. I just do my thing & keep to my self. I have fun joking around with the girls here & there, but nothing too serious to the point of tension.

Yes, she needs to smile more or pretend to want to be there. She looks like a combo of wanting to cry & clueless air head. She cannot be happy knowing a bunch of creepy men salivating at just the thought of sticking their little friend in her BB.

YMMV!

[QUOTE=EastGoing;1619382]- Maya: it was the first time I met her, really well over the average look of a RTC girl, actually really out of place for beauty and body, not perfect but not far from that. She had a way of looking at me that gave me the impression she didn't like me. Eventually I understood it's just her way of watching other people, she's not wrong in feeling "a bit superior", specially considering the partners she has to go with, and also the girls that surround her, actually no comparison in look and body, apart from alien Rosa, really a shame that 2 girls like them sell themselves (even AO!) for 30 euros. Of course I couldn't help being attracted and take whatever she would give me. A bit in a hurry both on the couch and in the room, not too accommodating or willing to follow instructions. We had some "disagreements", actually arguments, in the first session and some misunderstandings before making the second one: she didn't understand I wanted to repeat her and walked away from our couch! So I went with Beatrix, zimmered the day of my previous visit, when she was off. When we finally did it, Maya gathered the fruits of my session with her colleague, nearly 45 minutes without finishing. I grabbed her 5 minutes after the session with Beatrix and finished after 15 minutes. Maya wanted to leave the room, which burnt the tiny bridge between me and her, but I will of course rebuild it on my soon coming next trip.[/QUOTE]I had a great time with Maya. She does have a sharp look in her eyes. Attractive for her age (late 20's or early 30's). I did her 5-6 times & she was great. Kissing, BJ, CG, RCG, arched her back for doggie, mish, spread eagle, basically very accommodating. Ok, she was not thrilled when I did not session with her during one of my many visits. Still gave exceptional service each time. Arguments & disagreements? Not sure why our experiences with both Rosa & Maya are worlds apart. What exactly are you doing in the room? Some strange freaky stuff? Just curious since Maya was very accommodating in the room. Zero problems with her.

Great sex. She would be perfect if she looked like Rosa or Raissa. Speaks zero English, but we did well using body language. Rosa is a bit spacey & can seem aloof, but Maya? She's does her job & willing to please. A trooper & takes a pounding with a smile.

Vito,

I'm the sweetest nicest guy a sex provider can meet, in fact it happens and has happened that some of them try to take advantage of me or anyway misbehave. I'm kind to them, respect them, don't do nor ask anything special, actually normally I'm quite basic, BBBJ and fuck, not rough, coming with me is more a boyfriend experience or just machine, mechanical sex, I'm nor a maniac nor a savage fury. Often I don't even kiss them because I don't like sperm leftovers and / or the girl to the point of kissing her, nor I like tongue-whirling tilted machines. Normally I don't even DATY nor finger. This works specially in RTCs, where I normally don't find very attractive girls, otherwise of course I can lessen my "restrictions".

But I don't like to feel any kind of pressure, specially about finishing and getting out of the room. Unfortunately, I last too long, often I don't even unload, and this can result in a problem with some girls.

About arguments and other problems, as you told me once, some things should be kept out of public forums, in my case the very most of it. In brief, to give you clues of what can cause some problems: some girls, after you have been with them, expect you to go back to them in your future visits. If you don't, they will be quite disappointed.

There are some factors you must consider, the main ones being your age, your look, what language and how much you can speak to them, meaning not just "blazen, ficken, zimmer" and that's it, whether in english, german or other ones.

As to the sessions and treatments, we all know that there may be some chemistry, some sympathy, some other factors which can have an influence on what a girl gives us. Going with a girl, even if it's just money-for-pleasure business, it's not like going to the drink dispenser, the result will not be the same for everyone like when you just push the button for the coke and get half of your glass filled.

Anyway I will willingly resession both with Rosa and Maya, if not else for their bodies, whether I hire an empty shell or a participative unhurried girl.

In the overall, I think I am quite lucky with the treatments I receive, in and out of the rooms, and I always bear in mind that I'm spending as little as 30 euros when sessioning.

Other field reports of my trip will follow.

Last week I was in Verena, 12 girls available, 5 were on their first day of work over there, at least 3 of them coming from M-Exclusive in Dulmen: Sabina, Ruby and another (unfuckable) one. From my last visits, last month, I recognized only Anna, Alina, Janina, and Maria, back from holidays, who didn't greet nor talk to me, nor that I cared about. But I was glad to be welcomed and minded by Janina. I recognized Gina, never met before but sister of Sonia and hence looking a bit like her, even if less pretty, she came back alone and hurt me when she told me Sonia decided to retire. She was supposed to be back last week, in Arabella a girl had told me 10 more days, but in Verena, when I asked what had happened to all the missing girls, the "survivors" made the list one by one and told me she had retired. When Gina came out of the room and confirmed, I had to take it for good. Both the girls and I forgot about Juana, but it was blatantly clear she couldn't stay there, I guess she must have stayed less than a week. Unfortunately, new stars Anais and Violetta were absent, TF said they were (already?) sick.

TF was Katia, this time she was very friendly, I think she didn't even remember the episode of the newspaper. Girls told me she is a very kind person, maybe that day she had something wrong for her own matters.

Sessions:

- Sabina: pretty gypsy face, a bit of round ass and a bit of round tummy, nothing special physically. She's sweet and willing to please you. A good session.

- Gina: a compulsory choice for me. Good room, but her sister was much much better from every point of view, apart from the boobs, Gina's are nice. I will choose her again, it's not her not being good enough, it was Sonia being too good. I would have expressed higher satisfaction if I hadn't made the obvious comparison with her sister.

It was nearly 10 pm. After flirting all day, Alina refused me because some 10 turkish guys had come in. I was with a friend of mine who had given her problems in Venus with TF because she had left him for another customer who would tip her, so she normally makes these unkind things, I should reconsider my great esteem for her. At least, they made peace (and love) thanks to me, LOL!

I wasn't attracted by the other new girls, or at least not too much, and I wanted to try a new one, so I thought I could try Ruby, inspite of knowing it wouldn't have worked, since my friend had warned me about her characteristics, which don't suite me. But for as little as 30 euros I can try nearly anything.

- Ruby: sort of aggressive pornstar, with heavy make up and a coating of a bit of fat in excess everywhere, specially in strategic points. I didn't like her from many points of view, including attitude and expression, etc. , but I nearly had to choose her by force, if I wanted to make another room. Already in the quick approach on the couch I felt we couldn't match. Anyway, she was in a hurry, clearly showing off the hope that I would finish quickly, not willing to follow instructions and she pissed me off a lot by insisting in speaking german to me, like when she wanted to change positions, inspite of my continuous requests not to. After hardly 10 minutes Little Head couldn't bear her anymore and decided to abandon the hopeless match. I followed Him after 30 seconds of nervous pathetic disappointed puffing attempts to blow Him back to life. She seemed surprised of me wanting to quit that early, but I paid her anyway, the fault had been mine. Also, I had thought I could repeat Gina, but she refused me too, at least apologizing and explaining to me, but I already knew it, that in the time she would have to spend with me she could make 2-3 rooms with the turkish guys. I wondered if they are really so fast and keen on leaving the room after finishing, since also in other clubs girls say that about them.

We left the club shortly after, pratically girls were all in rooms, and I decided, contrarily to scheduled plan, not to return to Dortmund for this trip, I would go to Arabella, as already described.

More to come.

EastGoing,

I enjoy reading your posts. Keep up the good work!

I also do not enjoy feeling pressure to finish or to run off to the room. Raissa is the exception. She's so fcuking hot "l would let her give me * "(Jonah Hill).

Thanks for your appreciation, Vito. It's nice to receive some once in a while :-) it's not nice to write in a desert dead thread :-(

I was in Venus last Wednesday and this Monday. The atmosphere was more relaxed, since Barbara was in Hennef too, and Betty and the other TF are not scary for the girls. Payment structure was back to 60 with a room included and 30 for further sessions.

Hennef is draining the few resources this club had, since it's the one supporting and catering for Annabella. Quite a few new girls, but none of them was that attractive for my tastes, and it seems now you can't even count on quantity to have the hope to find something worth, since there were respectively 12 and 9 girls, last Tuesday it was reported only 7. Fuckable new girls possibly short slim Dilara, who left shortly after I arrived and is now on holiday, and Elli, roughly same body, who luckily told me, at 9 pm, that she was on break, then would eat, then do the cleaning, then get ready to leave! Sort of Rosa, long breaks and ages to do whatever, but if Elli costs 30 euros, Rosa should cost at least 3000, regardless of what happens in the room. I had approached Elli not knowing her name, reports on freiercafe are quite bad, so I was lucky I didn't have the displeasure to session with her.

So I had to be glad that Jasmine was back, at least I had someone to put in between my sessions with Elena.

Jasmine is slim, 1,85 tall, nearly model body, if I'm not mistaken she has some sort of hair on her back. She's miles away, IMHO, from Maya and Rosa, but also from the average fauna inhabiting RTCs, in Venus she has no competitors from the physical point of view. She is a bit cold, and her face doesn't attract me that much, honestly I don't find her kissable, something wrong with her teeth too. At least now she got some experience in the job, I had met her when she had just started. She tries to be nice, not that she isn't or wasn't or didn't want to be, probably it's just her character, shy, that makes her look cold, anyway she's ok and surely worth a session.

I was also with Bianca, I had sessioned with her just for a change and for her sweetness when she was Karina in Arabella. She's on the chubby side but smiling, cheerful and willing to please. Also kissable

At the moment, IMHO, the club is even less worth a visit than before.

That's all for this trip

I read discussion in F39 thread between EastGoind Free Dude, and BigBuddy69. It is not easy to understand what changes are happening now and what the game plan is. Could you please briefly explain current situation with the clubs being discussed such us Arabella, Verena, F39, etc. Please indicate what clubs are AO now what are not. Please also update about Alina, Grimberg, Venus. Are they affected? Thanks.

[QUOTE=Jymondor;1620932]I read discussion in F39 thread between EastGoind Free Dude, and BigBuddy69. It is not easy to understand what changes are happening now and what the game plan is. Could you please briefly explain current situation with the clubs being discussed such us Arabella, Verena, F39, etc. Please indicate what clubs are AO now what are not. Please also update about Alina, Grimberg, Venus. Are they affected? Thanks.[/QUOTE]For now Freude is still being remodeled. I heard a rumor that the new opening date is now 24 September. Til then the other clubs should remain opened. There is also a rumor that the prices will start with the well known 30/30 for entry and sessions and will week by week increase to 40/40 and 50/50.

What a bad news! I'll be in NRW between 29 days for a 6-days-tour around this club and maybe most of them will be close?

[QUOTE=ChristianG;1621203]What a bad news! I'll be in NRW between 29 days for a 6-days-tour around this club and maybe most of them will be close?[/QUOTE]Villa Venus in Duisburg and FKK Annabella in Hennef will remain open, the other clubs might be closed but all the girls will be in the old Freude 39 in Bochum. So you'll have one club with about 50 girls instead of 4 clubs with 12 each. That is what is expected in any case. Freude is far larger than the small RTCs.

[QUOTE=FreeDude;1621287]but all the girls will be in the old Freude 39 in Bochum. So you'll have one club with about 50 girls instead of 4 clubs with 12 each. That is what is expected in any case.[/QUOTE]
I found a website of Freude39 in Herne. But not in Bochum.

[URL]http://herne.freude39.com/[/URL]

[URL]http://fkk-club.com/bochum/freude39-freudenbergstr-39-44809-bochum[/URL]

[URL]http://www.fkk-freudenberg.de/[/URL]
(FKK & SAUNA CLUB // FREUDE 39 Bochum, umgezogen nach Herne - moved to Herne). On the web I don't found any info about old Freude 39 in Bochum? this is the right address Freudenbergstr. 39 // 44809 Bochum? AO and all extra inclusive (anal and cim)? How much the cost of the ladies here?

Thanks in advance.

ps. may be is this one: [URL]http://www.fkkbochum.com/[/URL] !?!

As most RTC clubs, the web presence of the new freude leaves something to desired. Their current webadress is [URL]fkkbochum.com[/URL]. Very little info for now, it used to say it would open 9-9, but now it just says "we need a few more days".

The name Freude 39 is derived from the adress of the original club at the Freudenbergerstrasse 39, after "moving" to Herne they kept the name. The new club can'why use Freude 39, but will probably go with Freudenbergerstrasse or something.

The club in Herne has nothing to do with the AO chain.

Going to be in the area ext week for business and would like to try out these AO clubs, but I don't speak any German. Is it easy to get by with jut English?

[QUOTE=FreeDude;1621336]As most RTC clubs, the web presence of the new freude leaves something to desired. Their current webadress is [URL]fkkbochum.com[/URL]. Very little info for now, it used to say it would open 9-9, but now it just says "we need a few more days".

The name Freude 39 is derived from the adress of the original club at the Freudenbergerstrasse 39, after "moving" to Herne they kept the name. The new club can'why use Freude 39, but will probably go with Freudenbergerstrasse or something.

The club in Herne has nothing to do with the AO chain.[/QUOTE]Is Freude 39 an AO club?

[QUOTE=Nebakanezzar;1621757]Going to be in the area ext week for business and would like to try out these AO clubs, but I don't speak any German. Is it easy to get by with jut English?[/QUOTE]I don't speak any german too, but I had a great time in Grimberg and Arabella.

I owe a little clarification, and sincere apologies, to a Friend from freiercafe and to readers here. In my first post from Verena in July, I attached a photo of the lockers area. I took it from that site. I wanted to post the link, but the post was huge, so I just took the pic. I'm sure I had specified it, but evidently it must have gone lost in copy-and-paste process, then I didn't notice it and left it as it was, I'm quite impaired with computer stuff.

I fully take the blame, but I didn't mean to steal anything nor to cheat anybody, why should I? What would I earn? Specially in such a case... Also, forums are supposed to be for EXCHANGING info. In my case, I think I give much more than I receive, in good faith, so please don't be so upset for the matter of the photo.
BTW, I've just read the photo guidelines, I couldn't even have posted the link, so I publicly ask moderators to remove the photo.

My dear Friend, since you read me, even if it seems not that much, I also answer a couple of your questions. I don't post in freiercafe because I understand nearly nothing inspite of google translating in a few of the different languages I handle. Also, what I write may perhaps be useful to guys travelling to Germany more or less often, not to people living there and going to clubs daily or weekly. In fact you should notice that freiercafe is mentioned in many foreign sites (dutch, french, english, etc.) obviously talking about german stuff, in the same way as any local forum is mentioned in foreign forums, like Garsonniera when speaking about Poland, for instance.

So, since you are american or anyway english speaking, it's me inviting you to write in this (dead) thread, at least I will feel less lonely (do you mind if I say LOL?) Also, your contributions are huge, must be really interesting and if you wrote here I could understand them properly.

Finally, not to get furtherly criticized, in this case for using the forum for "personal matters", I at least post an info which answers a question you asked and was unanswered in freiercafe: Juana is currently in Romania. If she goes back to Germany, it will not be (it shouldn't be) in AO clubs.

Forgiven? LOL?

Best Regards.

I had several hours on two consecutive days at VV a few weeks ago, and have mixed feelings. The welcome was friendly and the service from the girls was excellent, including DFK and DATY. The pricing was excellent also -20 minutes for 30 euro, sometimes including anal and CIM.

But I always tire of the club after a few hours, mainly because there is nowhere really to chill out and no food. This means that as soon as one finishes a room one is seen by the girls as a likely victim for another room. As the girls stay each on a couch then there is little chance for fun chance interaction, especially if your German or Romanian is limited.

The looks of the girls generally does not compare with say GT, but the service is infinitely better in my experience. However a handful of girls are very nice looking.

I forget some of the names but I do remember a good anal session with Bianca, and an excellent session with Mihaela. I found that one of the other girls was a nuisance. I went with her once and she spent all her subsequent time shouting over to me and watching my every move.

So, for me, a club only for short visits, but worth it for the price.

[QUOTE=Optimist;1626897]I had several hours on two consecutive days at VV a few weeks ago, and have mixed feelings. The welcome was friendly and the service from the girls was excellent, including DFK and DATY. The pricing was excellent also -20 minutes for 30 euro, sometimes including anal and CIM.

But I always tire of the club after a few hours, mainly because there is nowhere really to chill out and no food. This means that as soon as one finishes a room one is seen by the girls as a likely victim for another room. As the girls stay each on a couch then there is little chance for fun chance interaction, especially if your German or Romanian is limited.

The looks of the girls generally does not compare with say GT, but the service is infinitely better in my experience. However a handful of girls are very nice looking.

I forget some of the names but I do remember a good anal session with Bianca, and an excellent session with Mihaela. I found that one of the other girls was a nuisance. I went with her once and she spent all her subsequent time shouting over to me and watching my every move.

So, for me, a club only for short visits, but worth it for the price.[/QUOTE]Thanks for your report, I will be there in 2 weeks and I'll looking for Bianca LOL.

Have you heard some news on the closure for renovation of the other clubs (grimberg, arabella, ecc.)?

[QUOTE=Optimist;1626897]But I always tire of the club after a few hours, mainly because there is nowhere really to chill out and no food. This means that as soon as one finishes a room one is seen by the girls as a likely victim for another room. As the girls stay each on a couch then there is little chance for fun chance interaction, especially if your German or Romanian is

So, for me, a club only for short visits, but worth it for the price.[/QUOTE]The couches located in the top left corner of the main room is a good place to recharge. The best place to chill out is on the couches upstairs. Fairly quite except for the moment a man busts a nut.

[QUOTE=VitoCorleone;1627055]The couches located in the top left corner of the main room is a good place to recharge. The best place to chill out is on the couches upstairs. Fairly quite except for the moment a man busts a nut.[/QUOTE]Yes, it is possible to stay on an empty couch, but I guess I just don't feel like relaxing when there are ten pairs of eyes watching me!!And when one gets up there is really not a lot of places to walk around.

I was in Venus last Friday, Sunday and Tuesday. I came across 3 different pay-structures:

Fri: 60 euros with one session included and 30 for every further session, but no more hassles or overcharges for repetitions, no happy hours. Barbara on duty.

Sun: WTF, in this moment I have a blackout and don't remember, but there was something different with the other 2, anyway repetitions allowed (7 girls on duty!)and no happy hours. TF Betty.

Tue: 20 entrance + 1 x40 or 2 x70 or 3 x90, needing to buy single cards if you want repetitions, happy hours (free entrance) 10-12 and after 21. TF Barbara.

Girls available: respectively 13; 7; 22 declared, I counted at least 16. By the counter only 11 pics. Some new faces, a few fuckable girls. Did they close Hennef and send them all here? LOL!

Among them: Melly, Bahar, Lily, Maya, Denise, Dana, Bianca, Jasmine, Flori, Carmen, Michaela, Dilara, Elli, Elena. The latter leaving soon, hopefully before she explodes, would need urgent extensive liposuction.

Thanks to the fact of meeting up with guys having a car, I had the chance to visit more than one club daily. Arabella was repeatedly on the list.

Bulgarian Nadia is back after 2-3 months. Ebru, Sandra and Sarah are back too. There were 3 new faces to me, only one was ok but resulted in a bad room and some further hostility. I didn't see Karina but didn't ask about her. Maya was in Romania, Alexandra went on holiday last Tuesday (supposedly for 1 month), Rosa will in the end of next week (supp some 2 weeks) and Raissa in less than 3 weeks (supp 1 month).

Rosa is always aloof and walking on clouds: if on her path there was a shit, a 500 euro bill or a big hole, she wouldn't notice anything and keep walking. She carries on taking breaks lasting around 30 minutes if she has stayed single on a couch for more than 5-10 minutes, while if she comes out of a room the break will last nearly 1 hour. But the sharks surrounding her are sharpening and tempering her: couch time allowed to anyone is now hardly 2-3 minutes unless she's smoking (she'll finish the sigarette), the exit from the room is as soon as the men unload. She turned me off so much that I had to make huge efforts to force myself to go with her, I made as little as 3 rooms with her in my whole stay, while that much was originally supposed to be the daily amount. On our last room I asked her if I was still in time to walk out without paying, we had just closed the door, but the ice statue had not melt a single drop, in spite of the long tiring walk from the couch to the room.

The new girl I sessioned with is Bianca, 5 days in the club. In the overall, she was the best looking one (Rosa is out of any comparison, physically speaking), complete in all departments: fine, smooth pretty face, beautiful witty penetrating eyes, perfectly kissable mouth, slim, firm, proportionate, no fat, no cellulitis, no marks, about 1,65, only the boobs could look a bit better, for the rest she's ok, at least in her "category", without being anything special.

When she told me her name I remembered the bad posts from freiercafe, I even warned her to be good with me, I would have loved to write well about such a pretty girl, hoping to repeat her. She agreed whatever. But she gave me quick empty couch time, in the room pratically no kissing, rushed blowing, just a refrigerator continuously willing to change positions in the hope I'd finish soon. Nearly as participative as Rosa, the difference is that Bianca doesn't vegetate, she stares at your eyes firing you for keeping her there, not even in Verena in my 2 sessions with Janina I had felt so much intensity in the reproachful full of nuisance glance. Bianca had agreed also to stay anyway 30 minutes in zimmer, both when we were on the couch and when we were in the room, but she rushed out as soon as I finished, in spite of some 10 minutes left.

She had already complained to TF and other girls about me when I reached the counter to pay! More than once in the following days we had some exchange of opinions and bad glances. To my surprise, she wasn't supported, not even by one of her colleagues.

The other sessions have been with girls already had, who gave me the usual enjoyed treatment, so nothing else useful and / or postable to add about Arabella.