American Politics

It's a fucking typo. What's "weald"? Did I throw a fucking hissy over your inability to spell "wield"? Why not....because I'm not looking for pissy little bullshit to complain about so that I can put off showing that I can't generate a valid counterargument.

You conversely complain about typo's, formatting, bile, venom.....everything BUT a relevant valid response.

So tell me, do you actually lie to yourself that this is the reason you can't come up with a valid response to my points, or is it only to other people?

B9k

It’s clearly necessary to explain to you what is obvious to anyone else, so let me help you out here. When you try to demonstrate you’re not childish, and misspell the word while doing it, that’s pretty damned funny. Even you have to admit that’s a childlike mistake - though I doubt you’re capable of that much introspection.

When the error is pointed out to you, and you respond with another little hissy fit (I like that one) that demonstrates you are completely oblivious, both to the mistake and the irony of your cluelessness, that’s off the charts hilarious.

But when you say to the guy who found your spelling error, the mistake you still haven’t picked up on,“you appear not to have good command of the basics”, well that’s just fucking priceless.

I told you before about being sloppy. Adding clown to the resume doesn’t help. If you’re going to continue with the insults and the personal attacks, you really need to clean up your act.

I sure hope I can keep you going. You are an endless source of amusement.

Oh yeah - weald is a homonym. Sometimes they creep in.

....to anyone reading this that this individual is making a grandstanding pretense about offending his typographical and formatting sensibilities so as to avoid demonstrating that he lacks the ability to generate a logical valid counterargument to mine below?

I made a logical case that we in the United States had been headed towards (possibly theocratic) facism with "dissidents" disappearing into the night, and possibly closed borders. His only response was to call me "paranoid", which is an ad hominem attack, a classic logical fallacy, basically attacking the arguer instead of the argument......he then "made his (kneejerk, reactionary) case" based on having successfully refuted my assertions

I believe that if he had a logical counterargument, we would not be quibbling about my keystroke error in slipping an "n" into "childish" if he had anywhere else to go in the argument. Instead of being a man and admitting that his positions were in error, we get the grammar and formatting nazi.

B9k

Some of your don't get it.

You Complain about International goodwill and torture.
You Complain about facism and "The Culture of Dictatorship"

You all have the right to dissent. I agree that Bush totally fucked up in Iraq, as regard to strategy, and by announcing to Iraq, when we were coming. Where there WMD? maybe, if so where are they ? Syria, Iran maybe. Why telegraph your intentions and then have no after strategy and no timetable for reconstruction etc.... NEXT

International Goodwill: Vastly Over-Rated. The Europeans have always tried to undermine any American President whom protects Americans first. They still have a perception that we are still a colony of thiers. The Europeans meddling in our 2004 elections, stank of arrogance and pettiness. Who in the fuck are they to dictate to the american electorate. Besides look at the French, prostitutes whom will sell anything to anyone. The Spainish, who sold Hugo Chavez, Chemical and Biological agents ( documented), and that prepetual Rats Nest the EU. Europe has never been a true alley of the USA, only when it suits them. Remember the left in europe claimed that Reagan was going to blow up the World etc... Now look at Europe a dying continent being over run by Islamo-Ding-A-Ling.

Torture- Oh my God someone put a dog collar on a prisoner, put a hood on a prisoner,and piled some naked guys into a pile, Ok stupid yes, but torture???
Should the soldiers been punished for this-Yes, but god some of you don't get it- the prisoners at club-gitmo eat better than anyone in any US prison. I see a lot of portly Muslims in the pictures.

Are you people out of your minds. Torture- Nazi Germany, Stalin's Russia, Pol-Pot, and you equate Abu-Grab and Gitmo with torture? jesus if that is the case you are turing European in this country. Might as well blare the Village people over the loudspeakers in every major city. Is the under-belly of this country now that soft?


Dictatorship- I guess that means domestic wiretapping and the Patriot act.Hmmm one of the greatest icon in Democratic party history, spied on thousands of americans, and intured a whole race of americans in prsion camps during World War 2. Roosevelt suspended more rights than Bush ever imagened too. Dictatorship means no more free elctions, it looks like tha American public voted for a change in dictatorship USA last 10 days ago.

If you guys want to become another Europe, then we have major major problems. Sorry bart, why you have some valid points, you fear about having a Closed Border, Puzzles me. What is wrong with having a fence?

MJG Dogs:

There is no such things as "best friends" in world politics, every country is ultimately there to protect its own interests, which is exactly what a country's leadership should do.... protect and represent the interests of the country... not just protecting the interests of the actual leadership running it.

My beef if with the current administration, whose pursuit of their own self-interests is undermining the good of the country to a degree I haven't personally experienced with the last presidents... and I have been following politics actively since Carter.

And don't give me the standard republican "Clinton this Clinton that". Like him or not, he was a good president and improved America's position in the world and the situation for our citizens. We gave him the ball and he didn't fumble. Same with Reagan. I hated him then, but in retrospect he was a good president, despite his inability to speak coherently. Bush is far worse... and has been coughing the ball up right and left.

France, Germany, England, Spain, Italy, Russia whomever are never going to see eye to eye with us on everything, but completely alienating and directly insulting them in a meaningless grandstanding fashion is just [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] poor politics.

I suppose that's my biggest problem with Bushco in general... they are just [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] poor politicians and make us look like fools. International goodwill IS necessary... without it, achieving our goals is much more difficult.

Iraq? We are there now, so worrying about why we got there in the first place is increasingly irrelevant... the spilled milk scenario. We need a better mop.

Torture? The whole Abu Ghraib thing is less significant than most make it out to be... it definitely isn't as much of an issue as the wasteful Guantanamo complex, where prisoners have gained an average of something like 35 pounds each because all they do is eat all day. For many, it must be like heaven without the virgins. A waste of money. Any intelligence we could have gotten out of those guys is no longer valid, al Queda structures have since changed and adapted.

I am actually not referring to having a closed border in the sense that you are thinking of.....keeping non-citizens out.

I'm actually referring to the old Soviet style closed border.....keeping citizens (trying to escape from a fascist dictatorship) IN.
This could be a realistic scenario under the trends that were taking place under the unfettered bush administration-it sounds like you saw that post.

B9k

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]
And don't give me the standard republican "Clinton this Clinton that". Like him or not, he was a good president and improved America's position in the world and the situation for our citizens.
[/QUOTE]
Sorry, can't agree with this. 95% of the execution of 9/11 is his responsibility. Our failure to respond effectively to numerous provocations (embassy bombings, the Cole attack) and the catastrophic drift of the intelligence structure were on his watch. We may all have been guilty of complacency, but the President's job is to lead.

How did he improve America's position in the world?

CARTER may have had something to do with the withering of the intelligence agencies effectiveness in preventing 9/11. During his presidency (if I'm not mistaken) he did away with "removing" (a sanitary word for "icing") credible threats and instead, handled such situations with kid gloves. Also, he began the over-reliance on MACHINE-gathered intelligence instead of time-tested HUMAN intelligence gathering.

Anyone more schooled in such events is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong.

[QUOTE=hardbarg]Sorry, can't agree with this. 95% of the execution of 9/11 is his responsibility. Our failure to respond effectively to numerous provocations (embassy bombings, the Cole attack) and the catastrophic drift of the intelligence structure were on his watch. We may all have been guilty of complacency, but the President's job is to lead.

How did he improve America's position in the world?[/QUOTE]


This is a preposterous assertion, and one that you can, I'm sure, not back up with facts reason and logic. Just like you failed to do in the crap that I shredded below, which you refuse to acknowledge under the ridiculous pretense of not liking my lack of formatting, and are now trying to discretely sneak away from.

By the way, "conservative logic" (I know, an oxymoron)doesn't count. "It is because I say it is.....that's what I say.....because that is what is.....because that is what I say........"

B9k

I am glad that you see the Abu-Grab situation similar to what I see it. Gitmo also.

did I mention Jesus Christ ( I mean Clinton in my post), No I did not. Clinton was one of smartest presidents , but not necessarly good. I have to agree with hardbag , pertaining to 9/11, he chose not to act after the USS Cole was hit, and did turm down Bin Laden, these are documented. Reagan whom you hated, and whom I loved, also made mistakes, like keeping The US Marines at sea level, not on high ground, in Beirut.

International Diplomacy? Its a two way street, and even after listening to the nonsense from Europe and after reading about the venom directed at american tourists since 2003, in Europe, it will be a very long time before we should mend fences with Europe. They are yearning to be in the spotlight again , they do remind me of poodles. They are smart , can be cute, but usually just shit all over the place.

Bart, How come then millions of people are flocking the the dictatorship of the uNited Sates of america? I do want to leave , not becuase of Bush, but becuase of too many damm people, and too much PC bullshit. I would rather live and take my chances in Colombia or panama. There, there is no PC bullshit, but fuck with someone there and you will be sorry. No friggin ACLU in Colombia

[QUOTE=MJG Dogs] he chose not to act after the USS Cole was hit[/QUOTE] That may be so, BUT he rained down a lot of physical brimstone on Afghanistan in the form of Cruise missiles after Tanzania (which was earlier than the Cole). IF the embassies in Pakistan and other neighboring countries weren't evacuated on a moment's notice BEFORE the retaliation for the African embassy bombings, Bin Laden's remains would have decorated the Afghan countryside. The evacuations were a HUGE (unintentional) tip-off that a LARGE foot was destined to be lodged in Afghanistan's ass. As a result, Bin Laden high-tailed it outta there faster than a crooked politician trying to avoid a "60 Minutes" van rolling up to his driveway.

[quote=mjg dogs]
bart, how come then millions of people are flocking the the dictatorship of the united sates of america? i do want to leave , not becuase of bush, but becuase of too many damm people, and too much pc bullshit. i would rather live and take my chances in colombia or panama. there, there is no pc bullshit, but fuck with someone there and you will be sorry. no friggin aclu in colombia[/quote]


i did not assert that at the present time, we are a facist dictatorship. what i did assert in a logical case 5-6 posts back was that we were trending (caps for emphasis, not yelling) in that direction (with no indication that the trend would be slowing) under the bush administration's continued acquisition of executive power.

i'm also no fan of pc bullshit. however, i understand it to some degree. i understand that my positions may appear to be contradictory (eg douchebag's attempt to label me a hypocrite over my post criticizing the behavior of women in the us), but this is simply a reflection of my understanding of the complexity of the world, and other people having perceptions that while -different-from my own, are not "wrong".

take sexual harassment for example. about 11 years ago, a little bim tried to get me fired (she got caught flirting with me, and told her husband she would get rid of me, or he would make her quit the job). i think that it is absolutely ridiculous that i had to endure a 2 hour grilling with hr, being humiliated at having my friends called in as witnesses, and was eventually completely exonerated.....although i still received punishment (hey, i thought i was found innocent) in the form of a condition that i would be fired without any question if there was even a complaint on me.

this was wrong, and a bunch of bullshit.

conversely, there are situations going on right now where women (and actually men too....it goes both ways) are in a position of possibly losing their jobs, not getting an earned promotion or raise, or maybe just literally getting chased around their desk by a supervisor.

this is also wrong and a bunch of bullshit.

the situation (and there are many other issues like this)is complex, and doesn't lend to a simplistic solution on either side. yes, men shouldn't be subject to prosecution at the drop of a woman's word......on the other hand, women should be able to go about their daily business without having to deal with for example a boss holding an earned promotion hostage over some pussy......or even excessive (in frequency and degree) attempts by those who are peers.

b9k

i am a liberal and i am a feminist, as it is very important to me that my daughters to have equal rights and opportunities in their lives. but i hate all the pc bullshit too!

don't think for a minute this is a conservative vs. liberal issue. it's certainly not.

the fact that i think tort reform is just a scam designed to allow corporations to act with impunity, or that i oppose sending my tax dollars to private schools through school vouchers, does not mean that i support political correctness.

free speech is not a liberal or conservative issue.

the problem with current sexual harassment law based on the supreme court decision is not the ban against "quid pro quo" (if you do this for me, i'll do that for you). most of us would agree that is wrong.

rather, it is the concept of the "hostile working environment."

now i can certainly understand why women would be uncomfortable if they had put up with seeing a nudie calendar at their workplace. that is a reasonable complaint.

however, the "hostile environment" clause goes so far to state that sexual harassment is not caused by the actions of the accused, but rather it is determined by how the supposed victim feels "impacted."

thus, if you do or say something that 99 people out of 100 think is fine, that 100th person can nonetheless legitimately accuse you of sexual harassment under the law.

case in point. recently my secretary agreed to call and make hotel reservations for my next trip to south america, because she is a native spanish speaker. we do each other favors all of the time, and it was no big deal to her.

during the phone call two women wandered in to our office and overhead me telling my secretary that i wanted a double bed, not a single. i also told her that i wanted the package that allows up to four people, so that i did not have to pay an extra fee if i brought any guests over.

the next day one of these buttinski's, who did not even have any business being in the room let alone eavesdropping on our conversation, proceeded to go to my supervisor and complain that i had made her feel uncomfortable and she felt sexually harrassed.

i was not even informed which one had complained about me, in order to "protect her." (i don't think that part was legal.)

but believe it or not, under the law she can correctly claim that she was sexually harassed. hell, i could do something as innocent as swat a fly, and if someone claims to be "impacted" in such a way that she feels sexually harrassed, then by definition, i'm guilty.

i was let off with a verbal warning and told that had i opened myself up to be fired if anyone else complains about me in the future.

and in sex prison, that's the law, folks!

db

That is the craziest thing I have ever heard.

You poor guy. Sounds to me like the woman who complained needs a decent shag to bring her back to reality.