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[QUOTE=Breadman;2226641]Chubby guy selling translation books on the sidewalk when phones do it faster and for free. He can't be making any money so how does he stay chubby?[/QUOTE]How do you know he is not making money? Other than your guess that he isn't selling any books.
[QUOTE=Werqweq;2226610]I think the difference between these guys who do get what you question, and guys who do not get it, is that the guys who do get it are what some people call "naturals". Guys who had a pretty active sex / date life back in Blighty, a life most of the other guys would be envious of as far as sex / dating was concerned.
When these naturals, with their experience and confidence come here, their experience will be quite different from that of Joe Average who may have dated one or two Sara Averages during a span of several years in Blighty.
What will happen is that most farangs that come here, at least once they get their bearings, will have a considerably more interesting date / sex life than back in Blighty. Be it with regular girls or p4 p girls, so there's no need to be discouraged.
Joe Average will have much more luck here, and so will Joe Natural. Joe Average here will be a bit closer to Joe Natural in Blighty. Joe Natural? He'll be closer to Joe Casanova here. And if Joe Natural involves in P4 P here, it'll be like shooting fish in a barrel for him. So in Thailand, like in Blighty, their experiences will be different, though better for both.[/QUOTE]Nice overview of a certain aspect of the scene here. However, I would add that the ladies here themselves are not starting from the same place or perspective as Blighty ladies. While there are some constants about women all over the world, there are enough cultural and financial situation differences between the women of Blighty and the women of Bangkok to turn a few assumptions upside down and sideways compared to how things work back home.
Don't ask me how I know, but a lot of Joe Average fellows might be surprised to discover they are more welcome and desirable to a whole bunch of Thai ladies than are many Joe Naturals-turned-Joe Casanovas. Non P4P girls avoid Joe Casanovas like the plague here. Or try to. Many regular Thai women are not only made personally uncomfortable being with a man they know can charm or maneuver his way around the ladies so successfully, they are also consummately aware that all of their relatives, friends and neighbors will see them, the lady, as a foolish moth flying into a blowtorch. She will not be seen as clever and attractive enough to have bagged a fantastic "catch", the envy of all her girlfriends in any way similar to what those Blightly biddies will gush over back home.
The P4P girls? Line ups might want Joe Casanova to choose them to put a feather in their cap about being "hot" enough to be thought a proper match for such a guy. They might want to be seen walking out of the bar with that guy just to show off that they are not only the girl of choice for beer belly old codgers, but for smooth charmers and "super stars" as well. And to make that happen, just being chosen and walking out with Joe Casanova that is, they might say just about anything the guy wants to hear because it is the being chosen and walking out with him that matters at this point, not what actually will occur in the hotel room. The fact that he didn't avert his eyes and reject her in front of her co-workers is already a minor victory. Walking out with him is the big prize.
Back in the hotel room? Joe Casanova will NOT likely be seen as a potential repeat customer. Why would he need to repeat any girl? In fact, what's the real harm in giving ol' Joe Casanova some of the laziest service ever doled out since, hey, not only is it not worth even trying to woo him as a repeat customer, but he is probably getting tons of great service and sex from beautiful girls all the time anyway. No real harm being done here, right? LOL. Except that can't be right if every P4P girl thinks that way. BTW, that is not too different from the way regular, non P4P girls that ol' Joe Casanova meets think, too. Why even try to give this guy great sex since he no doubt gets the best sex all the time from the most beautiful girls? LOL. And I can't possibly compete what what he has had anyway, so why even try. Again, most of that cannot be true if every girl he meets thinks that way.
When P4P freelancers look at Joe Casanova, they generally do NOT see a "customer". Perhaps not for any girl. He must have a lot of real girlfriends, why would he need to pay for sex? According to the P4P girl's way of thinking, that is. However, when they look at Joe Average, they see the word "customer" in huge neon. And if they get the impression they might just be the hottest, sexiest girl this guy has had in a long time if not ever, that will go a long way to giving them confidence and motivating them to give him a quality ride and inspire him to return to her over and over again for that special ride. Unlike Joe Casanova, Joe Average-now-Joe Natural might be worth wooing and impressing as a potential repeat customer.
There are definitely different challenges and results for the Joe Averages vs the Joe Naturals/Casanovas between Blighty and Bangkok, imo.
The problem for ET is that he can't pop with a condom so he pays his money and takes his chances going BB. His getting regularly tested greatly reduces the risk of transmitting but is no protection against catching. I feel we can all agree there is some risk involved, the conversation seems to be about how great that is. Then there is the other argument, she doesn't have to. While yes it's between consenting adults I have always felt the girl is at a disadvantage, either from lack of information of the dangers, to her not caring, to her needing the money. When you break it down it's not advisable but understandable in situations where without going BB finishing in her pussy is a no show.
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2226657]In fact, what's the real harm in giving ol' Joe Casanova some of the laziest service ever doled out since, hey, not only is it not worth even trying to woo him as a repeat customer, but he is probably getting tons of great service and sex from beautiful girls all the time anyway, no real harm being done here, right?[/QUOTE]How do you give great sex? What is the definition of great sex? Couldn't someone follow all the directions and instructions of what you say and still not be able to deliver great sex even though they were trying? As has been said before, everybody is not good at everything. And this includes some people in the sex industry as well. So to assume that someone that you had never had sex with did not deliver great sex just to spite you is ridiculous.
I can count on two hands the chicks that deliberately were not trying and none of those were in Thailand. Off hand I would give that to a few Tijuana street girls and a chick at a $6 place in Ecuador. Hell, she was even talking on her phone while I was fucking her. When I called her on it, she said it is only 6 dollars. Well I could not disagree with that!
You think this chick got up and went to work in hopes of not doing a good job in order to spite everyone in the place?
[URL]http://m.worldstarhiphop.com/android/video.php?v=wshh9Vo2sPF0n0WPv1tj[/URL]
[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2226665]How do you give great sex? What is the definition of great sex? Couldn't someone follow all the directions and instructions of what you say and still not be able to deliver great sex even though they were trying? As has been said before, everybody is not good at everything. And this includes some people in the sex industry as well. So to assume that someone that you had never had sex with did not deliver great sex just to spite you is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]Agreed. One additional factor is that we all enjoy different things so a skilled provider of either sex may be putting in plenty of effort but just not pressing the buttons of the recipient.
I've had friends recommend girls to me as hot and great performers only to find them not enjoyable. Similarly, girls that I have had a great time with have left friends wanting.
I guess the same could be said for timing. Some guys want to pump and run. Others want to dance and romance all night long.
[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2226665]How do you give great sex? What is the definition of great sex? Couldn't someone follow all the directions and instructions of what you say and still not be able to deliver great sex even though they were trying?
-snip-
So to assume that someone that you had never had sex with did not deliver great sex just to spite you is ridiculous.
I can count on two hands the chicks that deliberately were not trying and none of those were in Thailand. [/QUOTE]There are indeed only a few acts of a sexual nature (and that show up on typical sex services offered lists in the P4P industry) that a female can be truly or let's say technically bad at; BBBJ and BBBJ+CIM are the main ones. DFK to some degree. DT would likely be one but probably only bad in the sense that it is agreed to but not really done at all, perhaps similar to DFK in that respect. It's a lot harder for the "receiver" to be bad at fucking, anal sex, DATY or anything that is done TO her. However, there is certainly a way for a girl to be a bad fuck if she goes stiffed legged, is too wiggly or just generally uncooperative about getting into a position the man wants or needs to finish. Otherwise, it would just come down to demeanor and attitude negatively effecting the experience.
I will check this and other threads to find the post you're referring to about some girl not delivering great sex "just to spite" her customer so I can better reply to that one later. So far I haven't read about that.
I don't know, Mr. E, I see your recent mission is to suggest there is something peculiar and unique about someone like me who would claim there are actually a lot of cum dodgers among Thai girls with regard to a CIM finish or that there is such a thing as getting bad sex through lack of conscientious effort from Thai girls. Instead, I would say your claimed experience is the unique one. To suggest that there are no cum dodgers with regard to a CIM finish among Thai women, that they don't even try to dodge it, and if a guy accidentally discovers one it must have happened because he just didn't handle it correctly simply defies belief and all easily observable reality. Or maybe it is because you are just not all that into a BBBJ+CIM or any other CIM finish and rarely even request or go for one.
Are you aware that typically less than half the girls appearing on Smooci Bangkok, virtually all Thai girls, list CIM as a service they are willing to offer, even for very good MONEY? What do you suppose most of those girls would do if you applied your "don't ask permission", "hold her down" or "give me your mouth" approach at the point of orgasm? I'd bet almost everything I own quite a few if not all of them are going to try to dodge some or every one of your squirts no matter how charming and persuasive you've been up to that moment. But you apparently disagree and think it is a true rarity, perhaps even unheard of except for a tiny few misguided punters, for a Thai girl to so much as "try" to cum dodge at the point of orgasm.
Now you're trying to float the idea that one is never likely to encounter a Thai P4P girl who is "deliberately not trying" in her session with a punter. Seriously? This and every similar P4P website I have ever read is peppered with reports from punters, not just me, detailing examples of that very thing happening. But not you. Never you. Fine. Then I can only conclude you are either the most charming, persuasive, never fail, no exceptions and no disappointments sexually compelling punter who ever landed in Thailand or your expectations and demands are quite a bit lower than all of us occasional "complainers" and "failures" painting a different potential picture on these forums and in personal discussions with each other on the ground.
I'm sure you and I would probably also disagree about which one is more likely to be the correct conclusion. (no smiley face emoticon available)
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2226850]I will check this and other threads to find the post you're referring to about some girl not delivering great sex "just to spite" her customer so I can better reply to that one later. So far I haven't read about that.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2226850] Now you're trying to float the idea that one is never likely to encounter a Thai P4P girl who is "deliberately not trying" in her session with a punter. Seriously? This and every similar P4P website I have ever read is peppered with reports from punters, not just me, detailing examples of that very thing happening.[/QUOTE]Are these two things not one in the same?
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2226850]I don't know, Mr. E, I see your recent mission is to suggest there is something peculiar and unique about someone like me who would claim there are actually a lot of cum dodgers among Thai girls with regard to a CIM finish or that there is such a thing as getting bad sex through lack of conscientious effort from Thai girls. [/QUOTE]I am not on any kind of mission. All I am doing is telling of my personal experiences. I thought we all agreed that YMMV. So if someone keeps coming and saying that it is not possible to do such and such, if I have a different experience then I will say well that is not how I have experienced it, so it most definitely is possible. It is the same shit in the Angeles City thread. I say just pay after instead of paying before at the bar. You know how many guys said it was not possible to do that? Well maybe they had never tried. I have no idea why they thought it to not be possible. But then other regular posters also spoke up and said they had very well paid after instead of before sometimes. I am not one to say something is not possible just because it has not worked out that way for me.
[QUOTE=Franciscass;2226660]The problem for ET is that he can't pop with a condom so he pays his money and takes his chances going BB. His getting regularly tested greatly reduces the risk of transmitting but is no protection against catching. I feel we can all agree there is some risk involved, the conversation seems to be about how great that is. Then there is the other argument, she doesn't have to. While yes it's between consenting adults I have always felt the girl is at a disadvantage, either from lack of information of the dangers, to her not caring, to her needing the money. When you break it down it's not advisable but understandable in situations where without going BB finishing in her pussy is a no show.[/QUOTE]I have not found that lack of information or lack of choice due to financial need is the determining factor in greater likelihood of accepting bareback. On the contrary, the most highly educated and financially secure girls are the ones most likely to be fine with it. With me, that is. School teachers, business professionals, even nurses I have met on the dating sites are much more familiar with and accepting of the scientific study conclusions about how rare if not practically unheard of in their observation for demonstrably heterosexual men who don't share needles to have acquired HIV and that risks and outcomes of other possible transmissions are not automatic death sentences and can be dealt with reasonably. And what a recent negative HIV test result shows. In my experience, girls who are the least educated, least informed, least worldly and most prone to being terrified by rumors and the unknown are the ones most likely to say "no" and not budge from it.
[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2226858]Are these two things not one in the same?[/QUOTE]Not as I understand the terms "deliberately not trying" and "just to spite". Not trying and being aware that one is not trying merely because they have no incentive or interest in trying or because they are simply tired or lazy is not the same as proactively trying to be malicious or punish a customer by taking that approach.
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2226866]I have not found that lack of information or lack of choice due to financial need is the determining factor in greater likelihood of accepting bareback. On the contrary, the most highly educated and financially secure girls are the ones most likely to be fine with it. With me, that is. School teachers, business professionals, even nurses I have met on the dating sites are much more familiar with and accepting of the scientific study conclusions about how rare if not practically unheard of in their observation for demonstrably heterosexual men who don't share needles to have acquired HIV and that risks and outcomes of other possible transmissions are not automatic death sentences and can be dealt with reasonably. And what a recent negative HIV test result shows. In my experience, girls who are the least educated, least informed, least worldly and most prone to being terrified by rumors and the unknown are the ones most likely to say "no" and not budge from it.[/QUOTE]Educated girls will know that your test result lowers the chance of HIV by a large margin, maybe reducing it 99%, since most people with HIV did not get it in the last few weeks. I have a BBFS girl that is using the test result logic. However I know she is not just doing BB with everybody, regardless. She gets tested as well. Is very scared to give her BF something if should actually catch an STD of any type. She is shit scared after any condom accident. Fortunately she does not seem to be able to get pregnant so hasn't used Birth control for some time.
I think was generally accepted that non hookers were more likely to give BB than hookers, and therefore possibly more risky.
Some girls giving a no, are scared of pregnancy as well as STDs. So many young Thai girls get pregnant unintentionally, due to lack of birth control, not knowing how to make it safe properly, or birth control failure, etc. Pregnancy is a far bigger problem than HIV, I think. I known a lot of girls that got pregnant where was not the intention of both partners. I don't know a lot of HIV girls. Only 1 I heard about that I actually met previously (27 years ago). I realise many can be secret.
Double pregnancy protection with condom and also with other measures is a good idea. Some might use morning after pills after a condom accident, I don't know for sure. I have dosed a girl with morning after pills in that event before. The last thing these girls need, is another baby, or 2nd last (after HIV). Many of my girls had a baby already, and a high percentage were not exactly planned.
[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2226665]How do you give great sex? What is the definition of great sex? Couldn't someone follow all the directions and instructions of what you say and still not be able to deliver great sex even though they were trying? As has been said before, everybody is not good at everything. And this includes some people in the sex industry as well. So to assume that someone that you had never had sex with did not deliver great sex just to spite you is ridiculous.
[/QUOTE]Sure clearly the starfish girls are not trying at all. Can we call it "deliberate"? We certainly could if she is also known to perform well when she likes the customer. Deliberate is a silly word in this context, as extreme disinterest is more likely. However girls actively trying to make it bad certainly exist, and they have even told me so, about not giving their good service to certain customers.
The simple example that is encountered so often is the girl who uses stiff straight stretched legs, to make any penetration as difficult as possible. I call it "dick scared" but that maybe a misrepresentation of the truth, as she may just not want the customer to have a good time, and the sooner it is finished, the better. While more prevalent in Farang hookers, Thais trying to prevent a good time exist. They also are very heavy on restrictions, e. G. No kissing, no DATY, no fingering, don't touch my tits I am ticklish, and maybe even no BJ or a purposefully really bad one, meanwhile claiming all the young guys are happy with her service (LOL).
I do not refer here to girls that perform totally crap out of sheer ignorance and narrow-mindedness. I know that is also a significant percentage.
[QUOTE=Syzygies;2226888]Educated girls will know ...
Double pregnancy protection with condom and also with other measures is a good idea. Some might use morning after pills after a condom accident, I don't know for sure. I have dosed a girl with morning after pills in that event before. The last thing these girls need, is another baby, or 2nd last (after HIV). Many of my girls had a baby already, and a high percentage were not exactly planned.[/QUOTE]Is abortion a no-no in Thai society? Or is it fairly commonly used?
[QUOTE=Syzygies;2226888]Some girls giving a no, are scared of pregnancy as well as STDs. So many young Thai girls get pregnant unintentionally, due to lack of birth control, not knowing how to make it safe properly, or birth control failure, etc. Pregnancy is a far bigger problem than HIV, I think. I known a lot of girls that got pregnant where was not the intention of both partners. I don't know a lot of HIV girls. Only 1 I heard about that I actually met previously (27 years ago). I realise many can be secret.
Double pregnancy protection with condom and also with other measures is a good idea. Some might use morning after pills after a condom accident, I don't know for sure. I have dosed a girl with morning after pills in that event before. The last thing these girls need, is another baby, or 2nd last (after HIV). Many of my girls had a baby already, and a high percentage were not exactly planned.[/QUOTE]I was impressed by the awareness of these issues in an English fluent FL I met on ThaiCupid (I think) a few months ago. She was fine with my recent HIV test result document but asked if I had taken a recent follow up test to show how low my sperm count on emission is since I got my vasectomy. LOL. First time I was ever asked about that. By any female anywhere. Of course, unlike a blood check document, I don't have a document showing that I've had a vasectomy. I assume I got a payment receipt for the procedure decades ago. Probably should have kept it and had it laminated. lol. And, yes, there is some slight chance that a vasectomy can "fail" afterwards if the tubes manage to reconnect inside your scrotum and facilitate more sperm cells joining your semen. So I was quite impressed that she knew enough about how a vasectomy works to also know how one can fail.
In fact, I have not had a follow up test in years to confirm that my sperm count on emission is so low or zero so as not to produce a pregnancy. Maybe not since a few weeks after getting my vasectomy. That is, except for all the empirical evidence results testing I have been engaged in for decades where no pregnancy has occurred after barebacking countless times with countless different women of prime child-bearing age. And, while there is some very slight chance of a "rehealing/reconnecting" of what has been cut in a vasectomy, I think the rare failures are far more likely to occur soon after the surgery, not decades later.
She did come around to feeling comfortable that my vasectomy was good enough reason not to fear pregnancy and my recent blood check document offered enough feeling of safety to go ahead with a bareback session, even though I have not yet gotten back to her to set up a meeting to know for certain what will occur at crunch time.
[QUOTE=Breadman;2226641]Chubby guy selling translation books on the sidewalk when phones do it faster and for free. He can't be making any money so how does he stay chubby?[/QUOTE]Depends on his sales ability and if he really has a product that cannot be got on a phone App. Many phone Apps for teaching a language, leave a lot to be desired IMHO, and I know that many dinosaurs still prefer a book. Not me. Books are too heavy. However I do have a small book of Thai North Eastern Dialect (Isaan). It has a lot of inconsistencies and errors (they could not find a good proof reader obviously). There is no App for this that I know of. Perhaps I need to search again. I can find two learn Lao Apps, but I am not that optimistic they will be good. So many Language Apps are really shitty, or just not in a style that I like. Have to try though.
I believe in learning vocab, pronunciation, and usage of words in a sentence or phrase, plus drills to change the sentence slightly to get a new meaning (for repetition and brain programming purposes). Grammar is typically not an issue, very simple in Asian languages. Vocab should start with most commonly used words more so than subjects or categories. E. g. I don't need to study all the food names (probably know them already LOL). I don't need to start with travel words, sports words, etc. Yet many Apps like to do this. One Lao App in beginners level has a category called Halloween. What a joke! We don't need to talk about that in Lao language. This App is clearly fucked as a learning tool. LOL Basic chit chat must be the beginning. The 2nd App I tried has this. Looks a lot more promising.
There was a really good small English to Thai phrase book years ago, sort of a Dictionary of basics and basic phrases. Books that do single English words to Thai are too difficult to get context and meaning right. I haven't quite seen the App that could best replace it. I learned a hell of a lot from that small book.
If he sells travel guides, I agree would be very stupid to buy them.
[QUOTE=Breadman;2226641]Chubby guy selling translation books on the sidewalk when phones do it faster and for free. He can't be making any money so how does he stay chubby?[/QUOTE]He stays chubby because life has moved on without him. He has not adapted to the changes of the world around him. He is still stuck in the ideas of 30 years past. And because of his inability to progress, he loses out in other aspects of life, like his health. Think about those who cannot change their ways of thinking. Those are the most unsuccessful type of people living miserable lives, while trying to express their beliefs in the old ways, so they can bring others down with them. If he can't change his mentality, he can't change his weight. Standing or sitting all day on the street like those Thai street vendors doesn't help. Most are all unhealthy looking. Therefore it's his "personal hell" to stand on the sidewalk to sell translation books which I doubt is very successful. If he was open minded enough to change and progress, then perhaps he would have success doing something else. Then he can start living life as it should be lived, and lose some weight. Preaching and doing the same old shit, while the world or industry has changed will make guys end up like the chubby guy on the sidewalk. Be progressive. If you see something that works better, than you'the better ask, learn, and adapt. There seems to be many experts and teachers, but those who really know how to live life will forever be students. I don't want ever to be the chubby guy selling books. Be progressive!