Kyiv

[QUOTE=Jojosun;1779801]So Mamba and Flirt are the same, but I've seen girls before (2009) who were on Flirt but not on Mamba. Hence my question.[/QUOTE]Mamba, flirt, love. Mail. Ru, wamba, and [URL]polovinka.com.ua[/URL] plus few others use the same database and you can login using the same account to any of them. I am not sure why some would will show on one not the other though.

Cheers.

I have a question that relates to an earlier one that has already been helpfully answered by Barba and Nightowl69.

The earlier question was where to look for semi-pro or non-pro to sponsor during my 3-4 month stay in Kiev and the possible strategies for weeding out the pros masquerading as non-pros.

My current question is about the price range I should be willing to offer for such an arrangement. I want it to be fair but reasonable.

I am thinking of two possible arrangements: one where the sponsorette actually stays with me and we have sex daily, the other where we agree on an x number of visits and / or outings while she keeps her own place.

I think I could live with an arrangement where we have 2 weekly meetings (a total of 4 hrs per week) without our sharing each other's space (the type of women I would be interested in are those that have regular jobs, etc. And so could find any change of residence problematic).

So, my question to those familiar with the scene: what would be a reasonable monthly allowance for a situation like this?

I could probably afford 1000 usd per month, but this seems a bit excessive given that the average salary is about 300 usd per month (and the girl's commitment would be about 16 hours or 2 full days per month).

Other than the obvious reason of frugality, I do not want to overdo it BC, first, this may set an unhealthy precedent for others and myself, and, second, she will think I am moron and won't respect me.

Please advise!

[QUOTE=NightOwl69;1780012]Mamba, flirt, love. Mail. Ru, wamba, and [URL]polovinka.com.ua[/URL] plus few others use the same database and you can login using the same account to any of them. I am not sure why some would will show on one not the other though.

Cheers.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the info. As I said earlier this was the case back in 2009.

[QUOTE=AColonizer;1774698]I read the last reports and according to the wording of the text, I think this thread has become a den of pimps telling marketing-oriented tales in order to attract inexperienced men in Kiev.[/QUOTE]I agree.

Let's just remind inexperienced naive would be mongers in Kiev that there are no 9's or 10's under the broad daylght.

Only in the darkness you think you found 9's or 10's. (LOL).

If there's a 9, you'll be paying through your nose. Like some senior member wrote before that Ukrainian women know what they are worth.

You might as well stay home because it'll be cheaper and you'll save on airfare and accommodation.

Mongering in Kiev is generally hard, hard work if you are trying to find semi-pros / amatuers at reasonable price, I. E. Not tourist price.

Most of them are 5's to 7's.

And there are no 9's or 10's there IMHO. I consider myself very, very lucky if I ever find a 8. Even after you weed out the chubby and old ones, there's always something don't look right. Face, tits little smaller or too small, legs not straight, too thin, body not proportional, shape of ass not quite right, too short (less than 166 to 170 cm).

Most of these semi-pros / amatuers do lousy, lousy blow-jobs and very briefly because they don't like to suck on cocks.

For good blow-jobs, you'll be much better off going to pros and you'll save tons of time, which means money because it costs money for accommodation each day.

And no anal unless she is a pro.

A final note: as a couple of senior members have pointed out that Ukrainian women even at young age, are already high mileaged.

You are right. Quality for the same buck has gone down a lot since 2011. Specially last couple of years it is becoming more and more difficult to locate an overall attractive package (looks wise), and almost impossible to get perfect looks and perfect service unless you are willing to spend about 7 x or 8 x the going rate for the rank and file (5's and 6's).

The economy being down is not helping either with prices at the very high end. There is enough of limited market for limited supply in that category.

It is lot of work, good grooming and looks, to score anything semi-pro or amateur.

Wish it was 2010 and 2011 again!

Peter.

[QUOTE=HornyMonger;1780131]I agree.

Let's just remind inexperienced naive would be mongers in Kiev that there are no 9's or 10's under the broad daylght.

Only in the darkness you think you found 9's or 10's. (LOL).

If there's a 9, you'll be paying through your nose. Like some senior member wrote before that Ukrainian women know what they are worth.

You might as well stay home because it'll be cheaper and you'll save on airfare and accommodation.

Mongering in Kiev is generally hard, hard work if you are trying to find semi-pros / amateurs at reasonable price, I. E. Not tourist price.

Most of them are 5's to 7's.

And there are no 9's or 10's there IMHO. I consider myself very, very lucky if I ever find a 8. Even after you weed out the chubby and old ones, there's always something don't look right. Face, tits little smaller or too small, legs not straight, too thin, body not proportional, shape of ass not quite right, too short (less than 166 to 170 cm)..[/QUOTE]

I will say after 3 weeks is completely dead thanks ti all those Amy of sex tourist overpaying, the economic crisis who has destroyed all the middle class it was till one years ago.

And the fly of thousand of girl from city, especially those more open minded to west culture and speaking good English.

Once it was easy to find great girl open, funny, goo attitude.

Those who consider foreigners are only the prostitute, and if not they all need a lot of attention and money. Most are people without any helps from anybody, salary down m inflation, everything contributes to a situation where even the best person will soon ask for help.

I don't blame them and I feel ashamed I couldn't help some girl I had a relation in the past but it's clear that they will need forever money, and when you stop helping they stop fucking.

They are also not to be blamed cause really the quality and level of people coming in this country has fallen down. Tons of poor Arab, poor countrymen from any country.

Dressed in the most bizarre manner I have ever seen, those cute girl who walk with those old European that make the Ukrainians looks like Richard here. Really terrible.

Time to look for another country, maybe more expensive but where you can really act a free mongering, I mean not paying in advance for sex, with good quality.

Personally I don't understand why people come here to pay. Most of the girl that work as prostitute are not even near the 5, I mean those who ask the price you read here. For good very good quality you spent more than some western country.

Anyway game over as far as me. Maybe in two years with a change of situation and a gryvna back to 10 it will get back a normal place, now is really something terrible.

[QUOTE=HornyMonger;1780131]I agree.

Let's just remind inexperienced naive would be mongers in Kiev that there are no 9's or 10's under the broad daylght.

Only in the darkness you think you found 9's or 10's. (LOL).

If there's a 9, you'll be paying through your nose. Like some senior member wrote before that Ukrainian women know what they are worth.

You might as well stay home because it'll be cheaper and you'll save on airfare and accommodation.

Mongering in Kiev is generally hard, hard work if you are trying to find semi-pros / amatuers at reasonable price, I. E. Not tourist price.

Most of them are 5's to 7's.

And there are no 9's or 10's there IMHO. I consider myself very, very lucky if I ever find a 8. Even after you weed out the chubby and old ones, there's always something don't look right. Face, tits little smaller or too small, legs not straight, too thin, body not proportional, shape of ass not quite right, too short (less than 166 to 170 cm).

Most of these semi-pros / amatuers do lousy, lousy blow-jobs and very briefly because they don't like to suck on cocks..[/QUOTE]7?

Are you serious?

Have you ever been to top place in Kiev? Like Cerebro or some city beach outside the city?

I visit 5 apartments there was only a girl worth 7, the rest chubby and with sad face.

Anal is pretty common in Kiev. Or I had many anal in the past with girl, but they were long time relation.

The problem in Kiev is that girl if like you really, not for money, are probably the best working girl in the world, rarely saying no, if you pay the service.

Are limited and mostly technical, with good looking girl.

I only had very few paid experience in the years, I remember sometime taking girl from vodka bar or other venue at end of night and they where super fuck.

But there was alcohol a night of fun and the sex.

Mamba apartment. This is not Kiev sex, this is industrial chain.

[QUOTE=ShklarSky;1780087]My current question is about the price range I should be willing to offer for such an arrangement. I want it to be fair but reasonable.[/QUOTE]There are so many parameters to take into consideration in a response to this question. How you look. How fun or square you are. What history the girl has. How blonde she is (try 500 USD on a few pretty blondes on Mamba and see what I mean). Will you play the future card or will you be you honest and tell her that it is end & goodbye when you leave. And so on. You get the picture.

Say you take your time and find someone that did not yet develop resentment and cynicism with regards to men, and is not considering herself a super model. A pretty and down to earth student, IT student, translator, teacher, cashier, etc, that is good looking but where some of the beauty comes from her personality rather than emulating some idea of how women should look to be "a perfect ten". Based on my experience somewhere around 200-400 USD per month will make a huge difference for most, and keep her coming back with a smile. I have had girlfriends that I would just give some occasional help and then just pay for entertainment, and some "girlfriends" where I would "pay for the taxi" with a 100 dollar bill every now and then.

Globally a semi pro to pro shag almost always boils down to 100 USD plus / minus 50%. So 50-150 USD will get you a good evening in most corners of the world. With some repeat discount, you will be below 400 USD with your scheme, at least until you both "fall in love" and the real drain starts. God forbid you get the idea to marry her, because that is when you really can say goodbye to the 100 USD per shag rate. LOL.

Some of these 100 USD plus / minus 50% females will be ugly and others will be super hot. There is a level of correlation between look and price, yet occasionally universe surprise us and throw in that hope giving unspoiled super hoe at just the same rate that we had the latex smelling hard core not-at-all-like-her-pictures hoe the evening before. We feel blessed and immediately make confused plans for some sort of relationship with her to secure future access to that honey cave, and then once we shot our load a few times more in the super twat, we give less of a fuck and call a mate for a beer instead.

Maybe it is all about saturation, but I have noticed that the more years a punter play this game, the faster he tend to start to fiddle with the phone to get Miss Super Vixen in a taxi and get his own ass in another taxi heading to wherever his good mate is meeting him. Very few old timers will ask you if a shared girl spent 2 or 3 hours for X USD. Some guys are just suckers for attention, the love game or whatever format the self stroking takes, but sooner or later almost all mongers will start to separate the act of sex from the act of nurturing that big ugly disturbed baby called ego. The uniqueness of the experience itself becomes central and the quantification of the experience or the service providers exterior fades into irrelevance.

Some guys are into numbers and grading looks and body. Others, me included, just sample more or less all that comes their way. Top model or average next door girl with small tits and a big ass, does not matter so much in the bigger picture. I am yet to read about the man who lays on his death bed regretting fucking too many women, be it 6, 8 or 9,63 on the global hoe normalization gradation. IMHO numbers and gradations of reality is just opinions at best, and mean nothing in the big scheme. Honestly, what good is an opinion on your death bed? Useless, so why would it matter 4 or 40 years before ones transition?

In any case, the short answer is: offer her 300 USD when the time is right, but don't be too instrumental about it all. Take it as it comes and develop report before you start to discuss an agreement. You will meet plenty of lovely devs when you have arrived, so do not rush into something that will later transform into a limitation.

Sorry for the waffle. Peace.

B

[QUOTE=LuisVega11;1780310]I will say after 3 weeks is completely dead thanks ti all those Amy of sex tourist overpaying, the economic crisis who has destroyed all the middle class it was till one years ago.

And the fly of thousand of girl from city, especially those more open minded to west culture and speaking good English.

Once it was easy to find great girl open, funny, goo attitude.

Those who consider foreigners are only the prostitute, and if not they all need a lot of attention and money. Most are people without any helps from anybody, salary down m inflation, everything contributes to a situation where even the best person will soon ask for help.

I don't blame them and I feel ashamed I couldn't help some girl I had a relation in the past but it's clear that they will need forever money, and when you stop helping they stop fucking.

They are also not to be blamed cause really the quality and level of people coming in this country has fallen down. Tons of poor Arab, poor countrymen from any country.

Dressed in the most bizarre manner I have ever seen, those cute girl who walk with those old European that make the Ukrainians looks like Richard here. Really terrible.

Time to look for another country, maybe more expensive but where you can really act a free mongering, I mean not paying in advance for sex, with good quality.

Personally I don't understand why people come here to pay. Most of the girl that work as prostitute are not even near the 5, I mean those who ask the price you read here. For good very good quality you spent more than some western country.

Anyway game over as far as me. Maybe in two years with a change of situation and a gryvna back to 10 it will get back a normal place, now is really something terrible.[/QUOTE]I agree that "Time to look for another country. Most of the girl that work as prostitute are not even near the 5, I mean those who ask the price you read here. For good very good quality you spent more than some western country."

This brings back my point earlier that it's better and cheaper to go mongering elsewhere, i.e. in another country.

[QUOTE=LuisVega11;1780314]7?

Are you serious?

Have you ever been to top place in Kiev? Like Cerebro or some city beach outside the city?

I visit 5 apartments there was only a girl worth 7, the rest chubby and with sad face.

[/QUOTE]I was just being generous with the scores since there're many overrated scores giving here by many mongers.

Obviously, most girls should be rated even lower on their looks.

[QUOTE=PeeTeePeet;1780225]You are right. Quality for the same buck has gone down a lot since 2011. Specially last couple of years it is becoming more and more difficult to locate an overall attractive package (looks wise), and almost impossible to get perfect looks and perfect service unless you are willing to spend about 7 x or 8 x the going rate for the rank and file (5's and 6's).

The economy being down is not helping either with prices at the very high end. There is enough of limited market for limited supply in that category.

It is lot of work, good grooming and looks, to score anything semi-pro or amateur.

Wish it was 2010 and 2011 again!

Peter.[/QUOTE]Thanks for your comment. You pointed out the very facts and added another dimension that inexperienced naive would-be mongers in Kiev don't realize. They're misled by many polluted posts here thinking that it's easy and cheap. As AColonizer wrote earlier: " this thread has become a den of pimps telling marketing-oriented tales in order to attract inexperienced men in Kiev."
The fact is that it's harder and more expensive than elsewhere in Europe.

I travel extensively all over the world, with a lot of free time, and I can only concur. Why anyone would choose Kiev based only on poonani, escapes me.

Germany, England, Spain, Asia, Caribbean, Africa, South America. You name it.

If you are going due to work, by all means enjoy and do the best of it. But Rio rip off, half ass erotic massages and the Mamba lottery really does not justify a flight to Kiev considering what is out there waiting for your hard earned marmaca.

B

I've read the last posts and I totally agree that Kiev is not anymore what it used to be! For the last 5 years I've been to Kiev about 40 times.

It was great in the beginning in terms of 9 to 10's, attitude, fun and money!

I remember the times taking out from Rio 2 gorgeous girls for USD 250 each (price was always the same) but they stayed in my apartment until next day.

We had a lot of fun, drunk a lot and they did more than they normally do. Every Night I had a big problem at Rio which girl to take as there were so many 7-10's.

Now they have about 95% chubby and average girls. And if I spot a great one she either regret to come to me to the apartment or the service is bad and they want.

To leave after 2 or 3 hours.

Same with Mamba where I always had some girls for the day action. Now only spam or average chicas want money like a 10 in Moscow!

On the street the same, in the good old days almost every gorgeous girl on Kreshatic smiled to you if you smiled to them and if you asked for their number and a coffee, it worked.

Still I'm at least lucky with one girl when I'm there. But it's not worth it going there only for this! (Speaking of this, I will be in Kiev this weekend.

I'm from Germany and here the prices are very low and the quantity great but we have a Romanian overload at the FKK clubs. Not good anymore, Where have all the Russians gone?

So the big question is where to go instead?

Is Moscow and St. Petersburg good again? Was there lots of times from 1999 until 2010. But the same over there, the last years were not good anymore.

I was thinking about Minsk?

(I don't like Romanian, Bulgarian and Moldavian girls; Poland is not good; Kaschastan and Kyrgisia is too far.).

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Hi all,

I long time lurker and felt the need to post my opinion since I have been there on and off 4 times a month in the hey days of 2008-2011. First thing I noticed is the strip bar, lingerie, sex shops seem to have doubled. Almost Every Taxi driver (young guys) are trying to take you to Dolls or one of the two apartment houses 1600 uah or 1200 uah and this is after you already mentioned you only need to go to Ocean Plaza IMHO it is definitely no better now for the Normal Joe as it more difficult in every way. The usual P4P clubs Avalon (disco), Vodka Bar, Decadence even SkyBar was closed. The real sign for me was the demise of Shooters (Every Ex-pats) Dream on a Sunday ladies night when at midnight the Curtains would open and a club full of already horny and drunk girls. Instead now there is no curtain and no girls, just a bar full of mostly Turkish, Mixed other nations and counted 3 girls until I left. This is not the Kiev I remember and it is quite sad. As a first time visitor now to Kiev you may wonder what all the fuss is about but unless you have been there since the start you know that now it extremely dull and lacking in any real atmosphere. A real shame and I do hope that things improve.

[QUOTE=Barba;1780390]The uniqueness of the experience itself becomes central and the quantification of the experience or the service providers exterior fades into irrelevance.
[/QUOTE]Barba, these are wise words. I use to be of the thinking that I would only bang young hotties, but this just wasn't realistic in my US home city. What is realistic was meeting needy Euro moms in cheap motels for massage and blowjob and sometimes extra. What I discovered was freshly turned women not yet desensitized by sex like a hard hoe and unique personalities. Most are duds, but I do find women so excited to suck a strange mans cock that the excitement crosses over to me in a way not possible with a mechanical provider.

Also, just my take on Kiev. Theirs always new young hoes coming to town ready to make their fast buck. Problem is they wise up real quick to their value in the world. It's a never ending game to hunt down the new girls ready to share their pussy for cash..