Jakarta

[QUOTE=Maila;2409977]Hmm. Oh well. I mean, I don't mind paying for drink for a girl who sits and chats with you, with fondling and flirting. But that requires language skills. Doesn't seem most girls know how to speak English here and I couldn't say a word in Bahasa. Also, being mobbed is another different issue.

But, I do like a fun atmosphere with some dancing or some such activity. Then, I can linger around, etc. Like those Patong bars, but I understand Jakarta is different. I think I read previously that Malio Club was a lot of fun but it was a while ago. One should have something to do between sessions, right? .[/QUOTE]I never figured out what you are supposed to get for buying the dancer drinks. I know you get to touch their boobs and butt, but for how long I don't know. Maybe some monger friends in the know can educate us on this.

My one experience with the dancer was, she forced herself upon me, then started to pick up drinks from the the trailing worker's tray (looks like liquor but likely just tea). Boom-Boom-Boom, 3 drinks, she asked for the number, sign the bill, and she was gone.

From beginning to end about 2 minutes. Not worth it.

I heard - but not 100% sure as I don't like to do things in the public - with 365K payment, the same money as going to room, you can elect to have a girl at the table for the full hour. But as you have indicated, if you don't speak bahasa and they don't speak English, it's hard to have fun sitting around.

[QUOTE=BJtemp;2409982]I never figured out what you are supposed to get for buying the dancer drinks. I know you get to touch their boobs and butt, but for how long I don't know. Maybe some monger friends in the know can educate us on this.

My one experience with the dancer was, she forced herself upon me, then started to pick up drinks from the the trailing worker's tray (looks like liquor but likely just tea). Boom-Boom-Boom, 3 drinks, she asked for the number, sign the bill, and she was gone.

From beginning to end about 2 minutes. Not worth it.

I heard - but not 100% sure as I don't like to do things in the public - with 365K payment, the same money as going to room, you can elect to have a girl at the table for the full hour. But as you have indicated, if you don't speak bahasa and they don't speak English, it's hard to have fun sitting around.[/QUOTE]Yeah, it can be a rip off too. In Tijuana, they get handsy with you on their own. In Patong, it was fine, they sat with you, chatted, played games, got a little handsy, etc. , and most of of these places it was like 10-15 minutes. I liked it. But I know some guys want to pick up a girl and leave and not interested in anything else.

I think often (not always) it's good to see if they seem like they might be receptive to you if you take them for sex. Doesn't always work. Then, there was the time in Patong, when the girl didn't even drink the damn thing and just upped an left after a few minutes. So, there's that too.

But, I thought in (many?) Jakarta places, you were required to buy them drinks (4?) if you wanted to take them to the room. I'm probably mixing up establishments here.

I just returned from Jakarta; am preparing my report. Mainly dealing with pictures, which takes a a bit longer to sort through. But I want to raise a separate question first.

As I travel through the city, I saw one shitty neighborhood after another. At many spots right at the center of the the city, even next to the museums and govt buildings, there are building ruins. I have not seen one true "nice area" in Jakarta, and decent-condition buildings are few and far in between. I went to Mangga Dua mall; inside the mall is OK, just outside the mall... shitty.

The sewage gutters are mostly clogged by garbage. The area around Classic is pretty old and run-down as well. It flooded after the new year eve rain.

Why is the city so run-down?! Where are the nice areas in Jakarta (if they exist)?

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2409842]We all know about the traffic cop scams. Happens in many SEA countries. On a daily basis where I am in Thailand.[/QUOTE]Thailand is nothing like Jakarta for police raids. On the very rare occasion I have been stopped by the police in Thailand, they were polite and have never made me pay anything at all. One time they made my Thai girlfriend at the time, who was driving, pay a small fee. But she was absolutely in the wrong on that occasion and if it had been in the USA, she would have gotten a ticket for sure. I think she gave them 300 baht. That's nothing if you ask me. It's the exact opposite in Jakarta. The police go out of their way to cause you shit over nothing and pressure you to pay. They will pull the taxi over and not say a word to the taxi driver, they will go directly after you in the back seat because they know you have a lot more money than the taxi driver. Indonesia is by far the worst place in Asia for this type of police shakedown. The only countries I have seen that even compare to the kind of police corruption you see in Indonesia are in Africa.

That being said, I still don't worry so much about the police shakedowns at the traffic stops. The most they will want is about a million rupiah (about 70 USD) and I consider that just to be one of the prices that have to be paid while in Indonesia. It's not something that happens very day or even every month. I guess it could happen to me more often, but I don't go out late at night that often anymore.

In Thailand, I have been at Soi Cowboy and also at Nana when the Thai police raided the place and shut it down. On those occasions, it was a total no effect at all on me because the police simply kicked us out and didn't hassle us at all. The only negative effect on me was that they closed the places down so I lost an evening of fun. The Indonesian police raid at a place like Sari Ayu is a totally different deal. You do not want to be in a place like Sari Ayu if it gets raided by the police for drugs because that could possibly be real trouble.

I decided to try social media, specifically Tinder. Having no luck on that thing. What puzzles me is that these women either don't talk or if they do, it's in one syllable. You ask them a small question as a conversation starter and I just get a "why" or something. I guess these are not all working women, otherwise, one could just ask for their rate directly.

These tinder matches just go nowhere for me. Not liking it. Even conceptually, you can like a person but you can't really message them and have to depend on them randomly coming across your profile and liking it without knowing that you liked their profile. (I know, a subscription "solves" this problem they created. But it narrows down the pool so much if we're talking only about paid subscribers.) I got their "gold" subscription or whatever.

I think I'm done trying to get girls using social media. Too much time and effort for not enough gain. Twitter had slightly better results in Jogja. I also understand other people would have a different experience based on their background / demographics.

[QUOTE=BJtemp;2409988]I just returned from Jakarta; am preparing my report. Mainly dealing with pictures, which takes a a bit longer to sort through. But I want to raise a separate question first.

As I travel through the city, I saw one shitty neighborhood after another. At many spots right at the center of the the city, even next to the museums and govt buildings, there are building ruins. I have not seen one true "nice area" in Jakarta, and decent-condition buildings are few and far in between. I went to Mangga Dua mall; inside the mall is OK, just outside the mall... shitty.

The sewage gutters are mostly clogged by garbage. The area around Classic is pretty old and run-down as well. It flooded after the new year eve rain.

Why is the city so run-down?! Where are the nice areas in Jakarta (if they exist)?[/QUOTE]Even for developing countries, some of these cities in SEA seem to be really lagging in development. I thought Bali was weird. Such a big tourist location and barely any infrastructure at all where walking seemed better than being in a car. Although, funny story, I took this tour in jogja and they took me to this village, which had decent roads, built schools, and everything. It was oddly much better developed than what I saw in Bali. I was recently in Cebu and I though that was pretty shitty.

You would think the capital city would be better. I mean, compare against Bangkok for instance. Maybe they'll make a nicer new capital city:-the.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2409842]How much did you have to pay? Just a thought but are you sure this Tinder girl didn't know there was a road stop with her buddy cop working and drove you on that route purposely?
[/QUOTE]LOL, no, she definitely wasn't. I think I had to hand over 500 k, which from what my friend told me, is significantly more than the norm. She said one had to cough up 200 or 300 k and generally they'd be happy, but not this time. Anyway, I've had worse, no biggie, and I understand that these guys are on shit wages and see us as an easy target, it's all in the game, but it's still unpleasant.

[QUOTE=BJtemp;2409988]I just returned from Jakarta; am preparing my report. Mainly dealing with pictures, which takes a a bit longer to sort through. But I want to raise a separate question first.

As I travel through the city, I saw one shitty neighborhood after another. At many spots right at the center of the the city, even next to the museums and govt buildings, there are building ruins. I have not seen one true "nice area" in Jakarta, and decent-condition buildings are few and far in between. I went to Mangga Dua mall; inside the mall is OK, just outside the mall... shitty.

The sewage gutters are mostly clogged by garbage. The area around Classic is pretty old and run-down as well. It flooded after the new year eve rain.

Why is the city so run-down?! Where are the nice areas in Jakarta (if they exist)?[/QUOTE]Where do you live? I used to think same thing when entering NJ from Manhattan and it went on for miles, worse than Jakarta in my opinion. But it is much worse in India than anywhere else I've seen.

Are you there for pussy or sightseeing? If sightseeing Central and South Jakarta are cleaner and generally more developed than Kota Mangga Dua area of the North.

[QUOTE=SeanEZ;2410064]Where do you live? I used to think same thing when entering NJ from Manhattan and it went on for miles, worse than Jakarta in my opinion. But it is much worse in India than anywhere else I've seen.

Are you there for pussy or sightseeing? If sightseeing Central and South Jakarta are cleaner and generally more developed than Kota Mangga Dua area of the North.[/QUOTE]I am no fan of New Jersey but Jakarta is in a class of its own. There are just so many old and ruined homes, with debris sitting onsite seemingly for a long time and weeds growing wild, all happening in city's center.

I usually stay at Classic, or Red Planet, or this time at Heef. All around Pasar Baru. I'm there for pussy but one can only do it so many times a day. You got to do some other tourist stuff.

Truth of the matter is I like Jakarta and will go on a monthly basis. Am contemplating buying a little place there.

[QUOTE=BJtemp;2410086]Truth of the matter is I like Jakarta and will go on a monthly basis. Am contemplating buying a little place there.[/QUOTE]To be honest I am not buying this whole government wants to get rid of tourism thing. Look at Bali, the way the place has improved over the years is incredible, so many beautiful hotels, bars, places, clubs, even the roads are good, I've met so many Europeans and Americans who moved there and working remotely, etc etc. You never know what is going to happen in Jakarta but if things continue to develop as they have been real estate should continue to go up in value.

[QUOTE=BJtemp;2410086]Truth of the matter is I like Jakarta and will go on a monthly basis. Am contemplating buying a little place there.[/QUOTE]Are you an Indonesian citizen? If not, buying property in Indonesia is not easy. If you do buy something, I would be curious of the details. As far as I know, the best you can do "buying" a place is get a 30 year contract then lose the place after that. The properties I bought in Indonesia are not in my name, I had to get an Indonesian to buy them for me.

[QUOTE=Smoothy;2410197]Are you an Indonesian citizen? If not, buying property in Indonesia is not easy. If you do buy something, I would be curious of the details. As far as I know, the best you can do "buying" a place is get a 30 year contract then lose the place after that. The properties I bought in Indonesia are not in my name, I had to get an Indonesian to buy them for me.[/QUOTE]For personal use, a property in Jakarta can be made as nice as I want and bypass all that hotel checking stuff. As an investment, Jakarta is one of the most potential in all Asia. And the price is very low (USD10-15 per sqft) so downside is minimal. My agent says those ruined homes are worth just USD20 K. I see buying in Jakarta as pure win situation.

The major drawback of Jakarta for me is food. Local food looks unappetizing to put in mildly. While there I survive on mostly on western fast food. KFC, Domino's, Pizza Hut. Even at KFC they don't do chicken quite right, but at least eatable. Jonisteak's Wagyu steak is good, although I don't think any the meat they give you is the cut shown in menu.

The land title restriction is a show-stopping problem. I have no one to do this for me, and am still studying the strata title law. Can I have someone own the land, and enter a 9999 year lease for 0 dollars? Can I park the land title with the government? I feel I can trust the govt more than an individual, because logically the spirit of the law is to prevent foreigners from controlling the land, not that government is intending to rip off foreigners. I hope to go into the Land Use department to see if any such arrangement is possible. Will also need to talk to a lawyer.

Overall I just think Indonesia needs to bring in foreign investment and foreigners if they want to modernize. People think of colonial times and think foreigners coming in is a bad thing; it really isn't. Singapore is so rich today mainly because it modernized, and dare I say, westernized. China has done the same thing. So what if foreigners make some money in the process? Foreign investment creates tremendous wealth for the country and its people; everyone wins.

I meant USD10-15 per sqft to build, based on my research.

[QUOTE=BJtemp;2410266]And the price is very low (USD10-15 per sqft) so downside is minimal.[/QUOTE]I am curious where that is. Doesn't sound like Jakarta. My apartment building in Jakarta sells for USD 140 per sq ft, and it's nothing special. I would even call it down market.

[QUOTE=BJtemp;2410266]For personal use, a property in Jakarta can be made as nice as I want and bypass all that hotel checking stuff. As an investment, Jakarta is one of the most potential in all Asia. And the price is very low (USD10-15 per sqft) so downside is minimal. My agent says those ruined homes are worth just USD20 K. I see buying in Jakarta as pure win situation.[/QUOTE]In case you weren't aware, Jakarta is the fastest sinking city in the world and expected to be underwater by 2050. Works out perfectly with the 30 year contract!

Bangkok is the other scary SEA city to invest in as it will be sitting below sea level by 2030!