Angeles City

You can barfine waitress if you like her. I'd barfined some waitress before.

I know this is always being a lot of argue. IMHO I tip bargirl for her staying all night and having nice sex experience. This depends on what experience I'd gotten. As I knew bargirl get the portion of barfine, but they get it once per week. Many bargirl don't have enough money taking trike or jeepney in that day. Sometime I tip them for trike or jeepney. But this is established on her service. And sometime I didn't tip them, that's because I sent them back home.

[QUOTE=LifeIsABeach;1625184]Obviously Amavida does not know the monger scene in AC. It is different from other cities and countries. Its bar fine + tip. The girl gets a portion of the bar fine from the bar. The tip depends on the girl, your culture, etc. Americans are used to tipping and usually tip. European and British culture about tipping is different and they may or may not tip. I usually give enough tip plus taxi / trike fare.[/QUOTE]Ummmmmm, he lives there and doesn't spend all of his time at church or at the library.

[QUOTE=Slippery;1625277]Ummmmmm, he lives there and doesn't spend all of his time at church or at the library.[/QUOTE]I found his post a bit misleading as AC and Cebu should have been bar fine only (all in) and optional tip to the girl; not "Bar Fine + Pay the girl"; that makes it sound like half is paid to the bar and the other half is paid to the girl which is simply not the case. As a resident he should know that about AC, but maybe it was a typo or written when his beer goggles were on, LOL.

In Cebu the issue lately is usage of the term "bar fine", but the "donation" or "EWR" or what ever you want to call it is paid all at once before leaving the bars (unless it's changed in the last 2 months) and is all inclusive; tipping is optional. The only exception might be at some of the KTV's, but I don't frequent them.

[QUOTE=Amavida;1625217]Utter bullshit. AV.[/QUOTE]This topic is becoming oh so confusing and not helped by generalised putdowns like this. Amavida you currently have some useful and interesting postings in the General and Other Areas forums but this one I find meaningless and unhelpful.

Not so long ago on this Angeles City Forum we had a repeated message that there was no longer any bar fines, you just sort it out with the girl. And I know this applies in some other places as well. Whichever way it is, paying the bar, or paying the girl, there is a fee to the bar management for the early release of the girl from her bar duties. This we can call the bar fine either paid directly to the bar (mamasan) or indirectly via the girl.

Then there is the fee to the girl for her negotiated ST or LT services. In addition, in my book, you may give a tip as a bonus for appreciated services. I agree with Amjeck that "It's up to the monger if he wishes to tip on top of that" (the bar and fee for the girl); the tip being optional. I therefore disagree with GreenBud where he talks about tipping "the mandatory about". Tipping is an optional extra beyond the fees to the bar and the negotiated rate for time and services by the girl.

That's as I see it.

KongKing.

[QUOTE=GreenBud;1625246]Since we're on this subject.
SNIP

Once when I left 5 pesos, she frowned. They seem to be happy with 15 pesos. They are definitely happy with 20 pesos tip.

I don't believe the Philippines have a tipping culture for normal establishments. I believe it might be different at the high end places, but not sure. But the Angeles scene is turning into a tipping culture. Blame the Americans. I even see Europeans and Asians that normally don't tip in their home countries tip in the Philippines and Thailand.[/QUOTE]You see it? You yourself are tipping in a non-tipping culture (I do sometimes also). Probably we are our own worse enemy here.

[QUOTE=KongKing;1625296]This topic is becoming oh so confusing [/QUOTE]It is unbelievable how something as simple as payment to a working girl for services rendered can be made so confusing by a few BM's. I will try to set the record straight. Everybody who is been to AC and Subic knows what I am saying is correct. I am merely trying to set the record straight for newbies who might be getting real confused right about now.

Burgos bars, EDSA bars, BKK Go Go's, Pattaya Go Go's employ a bifurcated payment plan: 1. Barfine paid to bar before leaving bar. 2. Service charge negotiated with the girl and paid to her after services rendered. LT or ST negotiated with girl before leaving bar.

AC bars and Subic bars employ an all-inclusive payment plan with default time being Long Term: the all-inclusive plan is all inclusive! It includes the barfine and the service charge for the girl. Before last year's raids, under the EWR, the local name for the all-inclusive payment plan unique to AC and Subic, payment was made to the bar before leaving with the girl and the girl was later reimbursed for her services by the bar. Since the raids, AC bars adopted various payment methods. In some bars the customer still pays the all-inclusive charge before leaving the bar. In other bars the customer pays the girl the all-inclusive charge after service is rendered and the girl reimburses the bar the next night. In Subic, Barrio Barretto, the customer still pays the all-inclusive charge before leaving the bar.

Now here is the fucking BOTTOM LINE: In all the bars mentioned above no matter whether they employ the bifurcated payment plan or have the all-inclusive plan, TIPS ARE OPTIONAL. If you want to tip the girl, tip her. If you don't want to tip the girl, don't tip her. I don't want to burst anyone's bubbles, but what I object to is putting out false information based on personal preferences and a subjective world view. If you feel obligated to tip, feel obligated, but stop telling the board we are all obligated to feel as you feel, to do as you do, and that the tip is a required part of the payment plan. That is not reality. BTW, before I get attacked, I tip most of the time if I like the girl and for good service, but I reserve the right not to tip. TIPPING IS OPTIONAL!

[QUOTE=KongKing;1625296]I therefore disagree with GreenBud where he talks about tipping "the mandatory about".[/QUOTE]Huh? Re-read my post. You might have missed it where I mentioned "Makati and EDSA" when I wrote "mandatory amount".

If my post isn't clear, Natty Bumpo explains it well.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;1625309]I don't want to burst anyone's bubbles, but what I object to is putting out false information based on personal preferences and a subjective world view. [/QUOTE]I agree with you.

[QUOTE=GreenBud;1625246]Since we're on this subject.

The waitresses make even less than the dancers. They get a lower salary. They normally are not barfined often, because many of the are older chubby moms.

At the bars, the waitresses either gets a station area, or they get a customer. They might get (at the most?) couple of hundred pesos per night in tips (depending on which bar they work at). They definitely rely on the tips to supplement their income.

Not everyone tips.

Once when I left 5 pesos, she frowned. They seem to be happy with 15 pesos. They are definitely happy with 20 pesos tip.

I don't believe the Philippines have a tipping culture for normal establishments. I believe it might be different at the high end places, but not sure. But the Angeles scene is turning into a tipping culture. Blame the Americans. I even see Europeans and Asians that normally don't tip in their home countries tip in the Philippines and Thailand.[/QUOTE]Well GreenBud, may I ask where it is that you fare from? Tips did not originate in america and here is an article you might like to read.

[URL]http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/301/what-is-the-origin-of-tipping[/URL]

However when I'm negotiating with a bar girl for lt or st I always use the tip as a carrot to insure proper services, ie: if she wants 2000 for long term I counter with 1500 plus a nice big tip if she performs well in bed and stays the whole night. Most will go for this in a heart beat, and have your heart beating at a rapid pace for the whole night and morning as well. The nice big tip, amount never mentioned, leaves you an out if she sucks (not in a good way). Big can be 200 to 500 if she gives stellar services and makes her and her gf's back at the bar more apt to want to go with you at a later date. Negotiating a low price and not tipping can almost always guarantee you a night with a starfish and a scowl from her friends back at the bar on your next visit.

What if anything does 500 php, approximately $11 at todays exchange rate, mean to a punter who has a great night filled with slurping, sucking, licking, lapping, grunting and moaning with a tiny tight pussied little brown skinned beauty.

I hope this puts things in perspective, and sets you straight on who to blame for tips.

Happy pooning, LAT.

The first time I went to AC I assumed the payment system was like Manila so I gave 1 k tips. (yes, 1 k tips were common in Manila about 15 years ago). The gals in AC seemed quite happy. Stayed well past noon, or in some cases came back and said they would miss work. Ah the good old days. Maybe I was tipping too much? Nah, I was just too good looking to resist. LOL.

I recently posted in the naughty image thread. Rymnd street, 700, I gave an extra 300 when she signed the model release. She still keeps in touch and wants to know when I'll be back. Deflation?

Years ago when I first joined ISG, there was a wise old guy who admitted overtipping. Although I never met him, he explained that he was quite old, ugly and overweight. He tipped well since servicing him would obviously not be as pleasant as servicing Brad Pitt. Not too many guys here use that logic, but maybe we should. X.

[QUOTE=Makeupaname;1625180]I am not sure why you're posting false information. A tip is normal, highly suggested, but it is optional in AC.[/QUOTE]Where are tips mandatory? Of course tips are optional, when you mandate a tip then it is no longer a tip but a payment. Tipping is such a polarizing topic to many people that no amount of persuading either way will change people's view on it. To tip or not to tip, that is your OPTION.

My words from a while back on the tipping topic. I still over tip sometimes because I'm so freaking happy but to me it is always a mistake.

"The funny thing is most times when you give a really big tip to a hooker she's not going to gush her appreciation for your generosity, no she's going to take it quickly and gesture w / a nod of appreciation. I always thought this odd. I gave this big tip and she barely acknowledges it. As a result I started to force myself to tip much less and I would get the same or better response.

And then it occurred to me, maybe these ladies thought I made a mistake w / their currency, hence over tip and took the money quickly w / out a fuss. That's what happens sometimes when over tipping, you get zero in return in the form of appreciation. I have learned over time to not over tip".

Cheers.

[QUOTE=Amavida;1625121]For the record, in case any new lurkers are misinformed by these bogus posts.

Manila.

Quezon City: Bar Fine + Pay the girl.

Ermita / Malate: Bar Fine + Pay the girl.
[/QUOTE]
Okay, I'll bite. Please specify the bars in QC and Malate/Ermita. In Malate/Ermita there are the main 3; LAC/MBC, Amazonia, and GPoint. None of these bars has a barfine. For the record, which bars charge a barfine?

[QUOTE=Amavida;1625121]
Most of these women are single mothers. They have to PAY a baby sitter for the 12 hours of her shift (eg. 7 pm - 7 am) hence not paying her a dime is costing her money, not making money. Next time one of these girls say's they have to go, don't take it as her running, she has to get back to her kid & pay the baby sitter.

[/QUOTE]Though many are single moms, in many, if not most cases, the child is with granny or a sibling. If you suspect a girl may pull a runner to take care of her child there is an easy way to sort this out before: Ask her. In your conversation find out whether she has kids or not. Where are they? Does she have younger siblings she has to care for at home? Is there a baby sitter sitting in her house waiting for her to come home tonight?

[QUOTE=Amjeck;1625143]Again, the tip in AC is OPTIONAL and left up to the sole discretion of the punter.[/QUOTE]Correct! I appreciate that in most cases the girl doesn't get her cut of the barfine until later, sometimes many days later; of course things are in flux, so it may evolve to a separate payment to a the girl as seen in Manila. But as it is currently, I think the right thing to do is give the girl transportation money. Five hundred pesos is well beyond transportation money.

[QUOTE=LuvAsianTang;1625378]

However when I'm negotiating with a bar girl for lt or st I always use the tip as a carrot to insure proper services, ie: if she wants 2000 for long term I counter with 1500 plus a nice big tip if she performs well in bed and stays the whole night. Most will go for this in a heart beat...

[/QUOTE]This is a person who knows how to handle FLs correctly. Unfortunately this approach won't help much with AC bar fines. Aside offering a tip it's tough to incentivise desired / superior performance when the girl already knows that her cut from the bar fine remains the same. It is sad that what once was standard now requires a surcharge - that's what this "tip" is.

A few weeks back I provided a brief history of AC bar fines. Bar fines were always LT. Then some girls began changing the SOP and the LT became a ST. Now I read some opine here that the bar fine is no guarantee of sex at all, it's merely for her time outside the bar. Perhaps the environment is evolving and it's becoming this way. I hope not. You ought to hope not too. Keep in mind that in the marketplace there is a meeting of the minds between the seller, i.e. the girl, and the buyer, i.e. you. For these disagreeable and disadvantageous evolutions to occur requires the buyer's acceptance. If a critical mass of buyers accept that a tip of p500 or p1000 is acceptable soon enough it will become the norm. And I guarantee you a p1000 tip won't be enough for some. I reckon in a few years time we'll be hearing about p2000+ tips.

To those of you who freely toss the Cheap Charlie insult keep in mind to others you may be the Cheap Charlie too. There's always someone who has more cash in his wallet than you.

[QUOTE=Socker;1625400]

And then it occurred to me, maybe these ladies thought I made a mistake w / their currency, hence over tip and took the money quickly w / out a fuss. That's what happens sometimes when over tipping, you get zero in return in the form of appreciation. I have learned over time to not over tip".

Cheers.[/QUOTE]Right! If she starts jumping for joy it'll signal to you that you overpaid, i.e. you mistakenly gave her a p1000 note instead of the intended p100 note.

[QUOTE=Hutsori;1625407]Right! If she starts jumping for joy it'll signal to you that you overpaid, i.e. you mistakenly gave her a p1000 note instead of the intended p100 note.[/QUOTE]That's cc territory, no 200 to 700 p is my mo.