Kyiv

[QUOTE=Stevie69;1933905]
Anyway, back to Ukrainian girls, I never mistreat them, but I am decisive outside the bedroom and certainly dominant in the bedroom. It is the only way they will give you good sex. So, do not be rude, but do not be a pushover either. They actually appreciate a polite but forceful man; for them it is a break from the Ukrainian assholes they usually meet.[/QUOTE]Well summed up.

How do you guys broach the subject on here? I've put my settings to show that I'm willing to sponsor, but I'm not sure how to get concrete rates. Would anyone mind sharing their canned message?

Thanks.

[QUOTE=Riina;1934008]Yeah, sadly it's become a pervasive business model of throwing shit on the wall and hoping for something to stick by the agencies. Quality girls nowadays have enough local sponsorship opportunities by guys they might even like.[/QUOTE]Riina is absolutely right about the fact that they "have enough local sponsorship opportunities". I notice that when I was there as you can see young girls with some younger boyfriends well dressed and good looking. What's the point to waste time with a foreigner that don't really understand them as well as their fellow countrymen and that will just stay there a few days or a few weeks. I've just seen my favorite one, that I got from mamba, a real pearl, well she has a new Ukrainian boyfriend. I am not sure she will be interested in meeting with me next time I am in Kiev.

Furthermore don't forget that nearly nobody in Ukraine is impressed if you come from the USA or Western Europe, that was the case 20 years ago, but time changes.

[QUOTE=JonathanPine;1933562]First, have backup plans in case it doesn't workout with this 39 year old woman. You don't want to be stranded in Kiev by yourself. Before you go, arrange for plan be, see, the,.

Second, don't pre pay her hotel room yet. Yon can book it, but don't pay for it yet.

Thirdly, take her for a walk, maybe to a cafe, you'll need to know that she's genuine before you take her to an expensive restaurant.

Locals guys wouldn't simply take some girls to expensive restaurants without first having a sponsorship deal. No sex, no expensive dinner!

Just because you can afford a nice dinner doesn't mean you should. If you do that in Ukraine without demanding sex in return, she'll lose all respect for you.

It's a fucked up mentality I know. But you need to play hard ball with them. I learned it the hard way. Someone, I think it's Riina on the board says that if you accommodate them, you'll open yourself up for manipulation. Very well said. I'll also add that if you accommodate them, you'll bring out their worst behavior.

Treat them like dogs, if they lick your dick. Then you throw them a bone. If they don't play ball, kick them to the curb. Punish them. Now before anybody accuses me of being a *******, I can tell you I'm anything but. It's just the dynamics between local men and women. You must play hard ball with them. No mercy, make no exceptions. The only language they understand is strength.

And don't worry about offending them. Trust me, they're used to this treatment from local guys and expecting it from you. If you don't do it, they'll think you're a fool and will only try to extract money from you without fucking you.

Be tough, Michi! Now go score one for the team![/QUOTE]Kiev-ODESSA adventure.

Thank's Jonathan for all these instructions. I may try it with a s l you t t why girl. The one from Kiev is a very very modest and humble girl and I just cannot do such things to her. She actually wants to find a man for getting married and create a family. She is also religious. That explains why she wanted to have her own hotel room. I booked the cheapest possible rooms for both of us, around 15 $ per night, so no big issue with that. And she tries hard to please me.

The said truth is that she does not sexually attract me. I do not want to have any sex with her and I do not even try it. She is not ugly, though. Really too bad, really. If I would want to find a honest and humble wife, she could be a good choice.

Nonetheless, what extremely pisses me off is the Russian / Ukrainian mindset. If you invite a girl to simething (e. G. The current situation: I invited her to come down from Kiev to Odessa) then it means that you pay for EVERYTHING! She does not even pay for the minibus or or diner. Nothing, absolutely nothing! TTF is this?! I feel discriminated. I must say, she says everytime "thank you" for diner etc (which another girl would not) and yet, paying small things by herself would be nice.

GENERAL ADVISE.

As I undrstand from Jonathan, a man (and in particular a monger) must be a jerk when he deals with Ukrainian / Russian girls, right? Another monger advised to treat a girl with respect. What does it mean in the end? When I see a gem on the street, I approach her, be very nice and highliy professional (e. G. "Hi, I just saw you at the other side of the street, may I ask you if. " then on the first meeting go for a walk and then decide where to go for diner. During the walk I will ask her directly "let's make a deal: I will invite you to restaurant xxx, but as a return, I expecxt you to come with me to my hotel to have sex! Can / should I ask such a question? In western culture I could never behave like that.

ADVICE 1 - Girl from Odessa.

I actually have a nice s l you t t why girl's number, telling her how beautiful she is and how much she confused me the other day on the street. At the time being she does "not know" if she wants to come for dinner on Sunday. Next steps from my side?

ADVICE 2 - Girl from Chisinau.

On my last visit in Chisinau I met a real gem in the bus. She has an beautiful face, sexy feet and AMAZING big (saggy / natural) tits, just amazing! And she is fluent in English. We have been exchanging Viper messages for a while. I told her that I will come to Odessa and that I want to meet with her. She never said "no" but she also never said "yes". She always said "nice", "I am happy*, "I will try" etc. Now, since I am here, I need to know what is fact. She told me today that she is in the process of divorce and that before end of October she does not want to date anyone "because she is a correct girl" On the same time she wrote me that it would be nice if I would come to visit her in October because it is her birthday. WTF is going on her? Finally, when I told her that I am in Odessa because of HER (and not beause of Odessa), she also wrote me that I don't have any reason to be angry now and I should have asked her and not simply planned. Though, she appreciates my gessture very much.

Next stept? Is there still a chance (to fuck her tits and to be a jerk) or should I give up? I know from experience that Moldovan girls are very hard to get and that a second or third visit often pays off.

[QUOTE]
Nonetheless, what extremely pisses me off is the Russian / Ukrainian mindset. If you invite a girl to simething (e. G. The current situation: I invited her to come down from Kiev to Odessa) then it means that you pay for EVERYTHING! She does not even pay for the minibus or or diner. Nothing, absolutely nothing! TTF is this?! I feel discriminated. I must say, she says everytime "thank you" for diner etc (which another girl would not) and yet, paying small things by herself would be nice.
[/QUOTE]That's normal in Ukraine and not only there. In many countries in South America and Asia, it works that way. However what you do with that girl from Kiev is more dating than mongering. That's why also many guys don't waste their time with dating. You can spend a lot and getting nothing at all. Use Mamba or call an escort. With some luck and lots of work, you might have a good time.

Hello all, I will visit Kiev in a few months and I just want to fuck a beautiful 25 year old Or younger Ukrainian girl. I don't want dinner or nice conversation, or a long courting process and I also don't want to book an escort blindly. I want to walk into a club, see a lineup of girls, pick the hottest one, and fuck her onsite. I'd appreciate a list of 3-4 clubs where I can do that. Rather not take her to my hotel either but if I must then ok. Don't care about money.

[QUOTE=HugeDickMan;1934294]Hello all, I will visit Kiev in a few months and I just want to fuck a beautiful 25 year old Or younger Ukrainian girl. I don't want dinner or nice conversation, or a long courting process and I also don't want to book an escort blindly. I want to walk into a club, see a lineup of girls, pick the hottest one, and fuck her onsite. I'd appreciate a list of 3-4 clubs where I can do that. Rather not take her to my hotel either but if I must then ok. Don't care about money.[/QUOTE]Then Kiev is not for you. Your best option is an FKK in Germany. This is exactly what you are looking for.

[QUOTE=JonathanPine;1933562]First, have backup plans in case it doesn't workout with this 39 year old woman. You don't want to be stranded in Kiev by yourself. Before you go, arrange for plan be, see, the,.

Second, don't pre pay her hotel room yet. Yon can book it, but don't pay for it yet.

Thirdly, take her for a walk, maybe to a cafe, you'll need to know that she's genuine before you take her to an expensive restaurant.

Locals guys wouldn't simply take some girls to expensive restaurants without first having a sponsorship deal. No sex, no expensive dinner!

Just because you can afford a nice dinner doesn't mean you should. If you do that in Ukraine without demanding sex in return, she'll lose all respect for you.

It's a fucked up mentality I know. But you need to play hard ball with them. I learned it the hard way. Someone, I think it's Riina on the board says that if you accommodate them, you'll open yourself up for manipulation. Very well said. I'll also add that if you accommodate them, you'll bring out their worst behavior.

Treat them like dogs, if they lick your dick. Then you throw them a bone. If they don't play ball, kick them to the curb. Punish them. Now before anybody accuses me of being a *******, I can tell you I'm anything but. It's just the dynamics between local men and women. You must play hard ball with them. No mercy, make no exceptions. The only language they understand is strength.

And don't worry about offending them. Trust me, they're used to this treatment from local guys and expecting it from you. If you don't do it, they'll think you're a fool and will only try to extract money from you without fucking you.

Be tough, Michi! Now go score one for the team![/QUOTE]You are fucked up. You think like an accountant. No wonder that you have low returns on your efforts.

These girls are not meatholes. They are like any other girls all over the world.

[QUOTE=HugeDickMan;1934294]Hello all, I will visit Kiev in a few months and I just want to fuck a beautiful 25 year old Or younger Ukrainian girl. I don't want dinner or nice conversation, or a long courting process and I also don't want to book an escort blindly. I want to walk into a club, see a lineup of girls, pick the hottest one, and fuck her onsite. I'd appreciate a list of 3-4 clubs where I can do that. Rather not take her to my hotel either but if I must then ok. Don't care about money.[/QUOTE]Bimbo Boy is right. You can cancel your trip.

Go to Holland, Germany, Spain, Austria or Switzerland, but forget about Kiev. Read a bit on this forum how is the situation here. No FKK and you get the adresses of apartments only after calling with someone that will answer to you in Russian or in English, it depends on the place.

[QUOTE=Riina;1934008]Yeah, sadly it's become a pervasive business model of throwing shit on the wall and hoping for something to stick by the agencies. Quality girls nowadays have enough local sponsorship opportunities by guys they might even like.[/QUOTE]Hey! That's a funny description and sadly is very true!

Much better, cheaper and save more time elsewhere in EE or western Europe.

Also, in western Europe it's safer too. They have regular health check-up by authorities on these working girls.

[QUOTE=HornyMonger;1934737]Hey! That's a funny description and sadly is very true!

Much better, cheaper and save more time elsewhere in EE or western Europe.

Also, in western Europe it's safer too. They have regular health check-up by authorities on these working girls.[/QUOTE]Kiev is no problem with any thing, its safe and alot of girls to pick upp both pros and girls that want to make some extra money.

Kiev is big so you need to now were to go.

I'm going now again on Oktober, work and and drink with friends, been living in Kiev for 4 years.

[QUOTE=GoldenGate;1934915]Kiev is no problem with any thing, its safe and alot of girls to pick upp both pros and girls that want to make some extra money.

Kiev is big so you need to now were to go.

I'm going now again on Oktober, work and and drink with friends, been living in Kiev for 4 years.[/QUOTE]Horny Monger was not referring to "physical security", instead he referred to illnesses that the girls in Kiev may have. And I agree with him that in this aspect, it is safer in Europe.

"You need to know where to go"? - Well, such places are pure shit and to be avoided. I don't want to visit such uninviting places. Then I better visit more welcoming places, such as Donetsk, Mykolayev, Odessa, Lwow, etc "where I will see where to go".

[QUOTE=MichiT;1935150]Then I better visit more welcoming places, such as Donetsk...[/QUOTE]I wish you a long life in DONETSK. A real sunny, peaceful and friendly place.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-war-russia-rebels-donbass-luhansk-donetsk-pointless-ceaseless/

[QUOTE=Misterxxx;1935204]I wish you a long life in DONETSK. A real sunny, peaceful and friendly place.

[/QUOTE]Maybe he was just referring to women from Donetsk (and Lugansk). Unfortunately, the conflict has driven a lot of nice young ladies from their homeland.

[QUOTE=Misterxxx;1935204]I wish you a long life in DONETSK. A real sunny, peaceful and friendly place...[/QUOTE]It was like that before the conflict. I had to leave just when I got to know the city with the help of local contacts.