General Reports

[QUOTE=Taiwan Laowai]To OTH and other resident expertsI've followed the posts on the Thai thread for awhile and noticed that references are often made about a local person's class. * Some of the classifications are no-brainers (the girls you see all around Ptya). * But what really distinguishes the non rice farmer/bargirl classes? * Is it education, family net worth, family name, ethnicity (Central, Southern, Northern Thai, Thai Chinese, Issan natives, etc? ), schools attended, or some combination of these? * How do you distinguish middle class Thais from the so-called Hi-Sos? * What percentage of the Thai population falls into the Hi So category and what percentage in the middle class category? * What would be a typical net worth range for a Hi-so family and for a middle class family? * Maybe someone could suggest a useful framework to figure out a local's class standing within Thailand. * Also, if a person born into the middle class showed initiative, studied hard, worked smart and hard, and eventually created a fortune (whatever that is by Thai standards), would he/she and his/her future family automatically graduate to Hi So status? * Now I realise this doesn't work for bargirls but what about the others?[/QUOTE]

Why do you want to know and why do you care? Just curious

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]Why do you want to know and why do you care? Just curious[/QUOTE]I would find it interesting, so if you have the time.

In the non P4P arena, I think it is very useful to understand your counterparty so to speak. Reading between the lines of what's been said in this forum, it seems that the possibilities with non-pros are influenced a lot by the girl's standing in society with Hi So girls presenting the greatest challenge. I'm sure average and even below average looking Hi So girls exist as do smoking hot light skinned middle class girls. If one could easily distinguish between the two, then they might decide to approach the very attractive middle class girl (less rejection risk with great upside) while passing up the average looking Hi So (high rejection risk just to be with a plain girl).

Also, this is one area which I'm sure still confuses many a farang who want to better understand the society. I've had western friends in Thailand tell me about great experiences they've had with so called Hi So girls. But when I ask them what that mean by Hi So, they say things like she's light skinned, drives her own car, has a good job, etc, etc. I'm sure many of the Hi So girls we hear farangs talk about are in fact from modest backgrounds or even posers from the P4P arena.

A lot of other Thai cultural aspects have been discussed before in detail here. While these discussions may sometimes not appear to be directly related to mongering, I do believe they are useful and interesting to those of us who consider pursuing the mainstream girls. Also, I realise my questions were perhaps overly focused on details. Please excuse this. If nothing else, I'm just curious.

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]Why do you want to know and why do you care? Just curious[/QUOTE]I consider this a very interesting question too.

I'm been lambasted in the past for setting myself up as some big authority on all of this and now tend to shy away from this topic.

I'll think about it and perhaps write something up. But, it would be interesting th hear from someone else, first, on their interpretation of all of this.

I will say that the assessment: having light-skin, having a good job and driving one's own car probably indicates a girl of more modest background rather than HiSo is probably correct. I will also say that this kind of girl, if accessable is a much better 'object of one's desire' than a HiSo girl because she at least may appreciate something resembling a honest day's work for wages, rather than unlimited access to daddy's Platinum card.

Perhaps, more later.

Taiwan-Laowai,

I'll take a shot at this but remember I'm not OTH, when it comes to putting things in perpective. I'm no damn professor!

I'm not going to comment much on the skin color or the ethnicity of a Thai as the determinating factor on whether that will make them mid or high SO! Because it doesn't. And I don't have any income stats of Thailand that would give anyone any indication what status would place a Thai in either catagory.

For myself, if I give it a common sense approach I would say education, family net worth versus against how much debt, and family name. When it comes to family name if they are part of the Kings family yes I would guess they would also have money and assets to be in the Hi-So catagory! If I was meeting a Thai family and had no idea what that status might be I would be looking for car, size and location of house, business if any, profession of members of family. Combination of the above and particularly the larger the house and visiable assets and adult toys would give me a impression of their status. This would be a start in my book but certainly not a factual guide for anyone with any brain.

As to the answer to your question " Middle Class showed initiative, studies hard, worked smart and hard and eventually created a forture " my answer would be....

If it is the desire of someone who came from low or middle class and has amased a fortune and want to move up to Hi-So, they certainly can by obtaining enought materialistic property to indicate that they are in fact Hi-So. You can meet a Hi-So girl and even pay a large diary to marry her but how do you hide the fact that your parents and family are bare foot rice farmers so Hi-So doesn't look down on your family!

In the end if the girl comes from a Hi-So family and is not self-center nor materialistic and loves you for who you are and so does her family then you have a great women. In my opinion you can always buy your way into Hi-So but don't forget who put you on this earth and don't forget where you came from?

In my years of staying in Pattaya when I use to live in a small room my next door neighbor was this old man and women who came to our mini-mart to drink Chang beer. They live in a Tin can roof house and cook food to sell in the market every morning. He had a old side cart motorbike and a used pickup truck over 20 years old. He dressed in old Thai culture clothing and his land was below grade so when it rained hard his house would be flooded and usually saw him at night with a small light looking for snakes in the water. Many a nights I saw a friend of his who owned a old Toyota Hilux come over for dinner similiar dress and ate dinner with them and later came to my mini-mart to drink beer. I found out years later that the old man that live next door was one of the riches guys in Pattaya. He owned more land out towards the Reservoir than the eye can see! His friend I found out own the land and the room complex that I was renting along with thousand of Rai of land. He opened one of the biggest Car showrooms in Pattaya next to the International Language School and invited me and my wife to his opening. We all arrived in my neighbors old pickup truck and I only then found out that this was a huge event. While we sat under the tents I saw all his guest drive up getting out of BMW, Lexus, Bends, etc...with valet parking. HI-SO if I ever saw a event. Two rows in front of me was the Governor of Chon Buri, The Mayor of Pattaya, Chief of Police... T.V. Stations that was focus on Thai movie stars and singers. Here I was sitting with shorts and a dress shirt, thinking only in America! After having a big dinner and dancing it was time to leave. While everyone was waiting for their cars to be valet back. My wife and I walked quietly down Sukhumvit and when we were out of sight. Went to a motorbike Taxi stands and got our ride home with a laugh and smile on our faces.

To make a long story short both of these old men families all have grown up Hi-SO, but yet they haven't forgotten who they are and where they come from. The owner of the car dealership told me he can't stand his family because he feels he doesn't connect with them anymore. So he comes nightly to his old friend house to sit on the dirt floor and eat. I have lots of adimiration for these 2 olds guys they are dirt rich but haven't forgotten where they came from and their old friendship. Now that is rich and Hi-So to me!

How one views Hi-So and Lo-So, is to each his own and whatever makes you happy! Another of LBM, simple outlooks!

Thailand class system.

Huge number of relatively poor people. About 60 million. Many of these people live on 20,000 THB a year! This is also the never ending source for all P4P talent.

Middle class, people with credit cards, loans, 2nd generation rural roots, having moved to the cities.

Very small group of super rich. Cost of a Ferrari is THB 22.5 million!

Girls: P4P girls come from the low end of Thailand society. Middle class girls usually marry middle class guys and do not end up hooking unless it’s under the GiG scheme. Marriage at @ 25 years of age is what the parents want and usually get. Increasingly though sweet, white skinned middle class girls may not marry at all - to the horror of their parents.

Hi so girls, offspring of the small number of super rich hardly go with foreigners. They do screw around, get caught on tape and make headlines but do not marry foreigners, unless loads of money is to be gained. Or call is social compatibility.

A note on the P4P girls. Uneducated, yet street smart. Due to upbringing and social back ground, they only chance for a proper job would be the super market or being a maid. Screwing at THB 30-50K a month obviously beats cleaning floors.

JB

JB has is distilled pretty well.

There is lots to add, of course. For one thing, I would say external shows of wealth are not always an indication of anything. There was a celebrated story a couple of months ago of a guy living large, who for years everyone thought was loaded, but who turned out to be living on credit and so in dept, that he killed himself when the creditors came knocking. The Thais have one of the largest credit-card debt per capita in the world.

The HiSo label is eagerly sought-after, but only held by a very select few. While there are plenty of wealthy people who may claim to be HiSo, they are in fact merely indulged at best by the truly HiSo - Old money vs. new money.

An example would be Taksin and his brood. Most Thais would consider him HiSo. But, in fact truly HiSo old money Thais consider him a HiSo wannabe. It would still cost you about a 6-10 million baht dowry to marry of one of his brats. But, he and his family are considered somewhat declasse by those that exist way up in the Thai ether.

As JB indicates, it would be highly unlikely that a Farang, unless extremely wealthy would ever get a shot at a HiSo girl, rich, HiSo wannabe or nearly HiSo, even for a fling.

Everything is about status in this country. Since Farang already carry a negative stigma, especially among the rich, one would have to be a celebrity (Leonardo di Caprio) or rich (Bill Gates) or royal (Princes William or Harry) or all three to get into this circle.

Taiwan-Laowai asked if there was some way to tell HiSo. Well, unfortunately they don't have it tattoed on their butts:D (or maybe some do, I don't know). So, it is hard to tell. If you know anything about family names, that would help. For, example if a girl has a last name 'Bunnag', she at least comes from a very old family, even if she personally may not be that rich. There are lots of economically, middle-class Bunnags (it's a huge family). But, they are still HiSo by association with this family. HiSo Thai-Chinese all have very long names, that often contain elements of the original Chinese name. This was in fact a racist policy put in place about 100 years ago to mark these people as different from Thais. Thai names usually have only 2 or sometimes 3 syllables, whether HiSo or not. Thai-Chinese names tend to be a minimum of 15 letters and some can have anywhere from 4-7 syllables. Often more recently arrived (since WWII) Chinese who have made their fortunes here in the last 60 years may still retain their Chinese name or at least have a shorter Thai name that they have adopted. A good example of this is the Sae-thong family. 'Sae' means clan. So, they are the Thong clan. Then there are the near royalty and there are lots of these around. If a girl has a 'Na' + the name of a place in her name - Na Songkhla, or Na Ayuthaya for example - then she's decended from royalty. Below I've attached a pic of the actress Benz...Pornchita Na Songkhla, whose grandfather was a minor prince. Note that she has darker skin and is not even remotely Thai-Chinese - pure ethnic Thai.

Light skin colour, while generally a pre-requisite to being HiSo is not absolute. True Thais, from the central region (Bangkok north to Ayyuthaya) are dark-skinned and some of these are old money HiSo Thais. The Chakris (The King and his family) are somewhat darker skinned than what is thought of as the 'normal' pallid HiSo complexion. I had a student a couple of years ago who was from Nakhon Sawan and quite dark, as is everyone from that region. Her family were filthy rich, and old money (going back at least 200 years). These Thais, while being darker tend to have very fine, distinct features that differ from other Thais.

HiSo Thais speak Thai differently, just a the HiSo in England speak English differently. There are different class accents here, just like anywhere. But, those can be acquired, like wealth - there's an ex-BG in my building who because she has a rich Farang bf, fancies herself HiSo and puts on the accent, especially when she talks to the "help". My Gf finds it quite off-putting because as she says, her family are probably as low if not lower than the maids to whom she is so condescending. Fortunately nobody is fooled, if for no other reason than she still dresses like and looks like a hooker - too much gold, for example is the dead give-away...HiSo Thai rarely wear much jewelry and certainly not the big Run DMC rapper chains that BGs wear.

If one wants to see HiSo girls and be sure that they are at least close to the genuine article, one need look no further than uni girls at the following universities: Chulalongkorn, Thammasat, Mahidol, Bangkok, Silpakorn, or go to Parragon and watch all the "Dek-noo" ( a slang term meaning children that don't have to do anything because they're so rich) shopping on the weekend.

The middle class girls - upper and lower - make up the lion's share of girls one encounters in some sort of educated professional life: whether, in some capacity well-above secretary in a company (although being a secretary still usually requires a university degree), their own business (shopowner etc.), teacher, entertainment business, and so forth. A lot of these tend to be Thai-Chinese of more modest means, or Thais from the better families in urban areas all over the country, even Isaan (not everyone in Isaan is a poor farmer).

IMHO, middle-class girls are the best chance a Farang has of finding a good TG, who isn't a gold-digger (either by temperment or necessity), because she has her own money, comes from a good family, but who lacks pretensions.

But as JB says, these type of girls often marry middle-class Thai guys. The only chance a Farang has of accessing one of these is to be here a long time, stay away from the P4P venues (at least be discreet), move in the same kind of circles, have a good job and speak some Thai.

If you're a visitor, forget it.

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]IMHO, middle-class girls are the best chance a Farang has of finding a good TG, who isn't a gold-digger (either by temperment or necessity), because she has her own money, comes from a good family, but who lacks pretensions.

But as JB says, these type of girls often marry middle-class Thai guys. The only chance a Farang has of accessing one of these is to be here a long time, stay away from the P4P venues (at least be discreet), move in the same kind of circles, have a good job and speak some Thai.

If you're a visitor forget it.[/QUOTE]

Of course why would a visitor be interested in such persons? No time to waste with tiresome experiences.

But I will point out that I have as a previous long-stayer and now as a permanent whatever had several 'middle class' girlfriends - basically I consider these people who have at least a BA, though more typically an MA, a professional job, drive a car, are afraid to ride on my motorbike, and whose family own at least one house that meets the 'western' standard. Most of my gf's have actually had lots and lots of real estate in the family, however. Some of my gf's have been of Isaan origin middle class (though 'chinese looking'), and some central Thai (dark, long nose).

The key as in any where else is that if she is very physically attractive she will probably already be married or will not be interested in a farang. If she's average or below average, she'll be very easy to get, particularly if over 30 and still unmarried. It is actually very common for professional women to be unmarried in Thailand as Thai men can't stand this type of woman. For me its never been necessary to have a 'good job', or any job at all, or even to speak much Thai as many girls speak some English. It helps of course to be below 40 and attractive.

However I can state that such involvements are a huge mistake for any farang - stick to P4P, its so much better.

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]There is lots to add, of course. For one thing, I would say external shows of wealth are not always an indication of anything. There was a celebrated story a couple of months ago of a guy living large, who for years everyone thought was loaded, but who turned out to be living on credit and so in dept, that he killed himself when the creditors came knocking. The Thais have one of the largest credit-card debt per capita in the world.[/QUOTE]That's how I'm going to go at the end, full of cancer or whatever cums my way. Max out 20 credit cards and live it up at NEP with no condom like Opebo. Finish in a blaze of ecstasy with white powder in the jugular. Yahoo!

[QUOTE=Opebo]Of course why would a visitor be interested in such persons? No time to waste with tiresome experiences.

But I will point out that I have as a previous long-stayer and now as a permanent whatever had several 'middle class' girlfriends - basically I consider these people who have at least a BA, though more typically an MA, a professional job, drive a car, are afraid to ride on my motorbike, and whose family own at least one house that meets the 'western' standard. Most of my gf's have actually had lots and lots of real estate in the family, however. Some of my gf's have been of Isaan origin middle class (though 'chinese looking'), and some central Thai (dark, long nose).

The key as in any where else is that if she is very physically attractive she will probably already be married or will not be interested in a farang. If she's average or below average, she'll be very easy to get, particularly if over 30 and still unmarried. It is actually very common for professional women to be unmarried in Thailand as Thai men can't stand this type of woman. For me its never been necessary to have a 'good job', or any job at all, or even to speak much Thai as many girls speak some English. It helps of course to be below 40 and attractive.

However I can state that such involvements are a huge mistake for any farang - stick to P4P, its so much better.[/QUOTE]I would take it further than that, I for one have had plenty of middle class Thai's, either owning, or their parents owning, their own house, who drive nice Honda Civic's or Accords and have good jobs, or who were finishing their degree's at University.

Time is the key of course (as well as your ability to be discrete if required as some of these girls are shy about being "seen" with a farang too much in the open), if you are here long term the fruits that can ne enjoyed are endless, but as has been said, this is not for short term tourists to try, there is no point wasting time.

The old school are getting increasingly frustrated by all this behaviour, which is why they are more and more "concerned" over falling moral standards. But it is inevitable that change will come, and as much as the old school fights it, it cannot prevent it happening, and in time the lines that presently divide people will become more and more blurred.

Old money hates new money, thats a common theme in Asia, but old money is also falling into new hands, hands that nowadays do not care about the history or the future. Look at Indonesia, you'll see nearly every third generation is pissing away the money the first two generations worked hard to make...............but such is life :)

Hello, guys,

Years ago there was the famous bangkokchat very powerful and perfectly crowded. It was funny to chat from europe, find new girls from abroad and then meet for real, I add some good expereiences (in addition to the numerous other possibilities) nowadays bangkokchat has changed, it is empty and in spite of many searches I didn't found any good chat with a lot of people.

If you have some good technical idea I would appreciate.

[QUOTE=Opebo]However I can state that such involvements are a huge mistake for any farang - stick to P4P, its so much better.[/QUOTE]

You're entitle to your POV. But, since the origin of this topic was a sincere desire on the part of Taiwan Laowai to pursue NON-P4P TGs and wanting to know how to differentiate HiSo from those that may merely be MidSo, a comment about P4P being "better" is irrelevant.

Opebo, there are plenty of guys even on here who want a relationship; something that appears to scare you and/or bore you to distraction. The 3F philosophy is perfectly acceptable if one lives one's life as a perpetual teenager in a constant cycle of empy P4P experiences, as you do.

But, mature men ultimately prefer something a bit more substantial.

Greetings!

I have done a couple of searches of the Thailand forum and cannot quite find a clear answer to this question. Upon my first vacation trip to Bangkok in February, what can I expect from customs officials if I only have a binder with selected reports from this forum and various pics of girls from a couple escort agencies in Bangkok? If I say I am on vacation, I know that I am going to get questioned much more than another who says business and if the binder is not in my checked bags it might be less suspicious. Still, is there a chance that a customs official will actually peruse the binder and see that I am on a mongering vacation (whether or not he sees the pics or the reports)?

Thanks ahead of time for assistance.

I know this probably doesn't add much to this thread, but it may help. I work with a Thai nurse. She's very light skinned, from Bangkok, and her English is perfect. She told me she learnt English at school, and did her nursing qualification in Thailand. She is a wee bit chunky, though tall, but cute as, and a lovely girl as well. She lives here in Oz and has a boyfriend-lucky bastard. So it seems that there are middle class, well educated, English speaking Thai girls out there who like farangs. Just an observation.
Cheers
Pete