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[QUOTE=Indi Companion; 1408078]I know for certain that Bikers are shareholders of at least 5 major clubs.
Turkish gangs are shareholders of at least 3 major clubs.[/QUOTE]So, which clubs are the ones with major Biker shareholders? Which clubs have substantial Turkish gang shareholders? I'd like to know which ones are which. Which clubs are the ones with no overt gang affiliations?
Please share if you know the answer.
[QUOTE=Frej Of Asgaard;1407935]And I doubt that anyone are conned and forced to work at these clubs, because there is simply too tough competition inside the club."Slaves" would lack determination, and would be outcompeted by those other girls who were there by their own free will.[/QUOTE]This is exactly what I see in a lot of woman in FKKs. The lack of motivation and their persistence to go to the room without having a conversation. Noticed that in particular at Magnum with most Romanians.
There are however non-trafficked freelance workers in each FKK and more so in certain FKKs. I personally have ethics and would not even mind if they busted the FKKs and arrested all the gang members who traffic woman. I would not even mind if they shut-down the FKKs that knowingly work with gangs. I know lot of you will attack me for my views but so be it.
In the UK, you would already go to jail for having sex with a woman who is coerced into having sex or controlled by others:
It is an offence to pay for sex with a prostitute who has been 'subjected to force' and this is a strict liability offence (clients can be prosecuted even if they didn't know the prostitute was forced).
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_the_United_Kingdom[/url]
So it's just a matter of passing the same law in Germany and than the discussions here can be used as tip-off by the anti-trafficking teams reading the forums. Just a bit more on the how trafficking is a serous crime:
[url]http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/[url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord909][CodeWord909][/url]/what-is-[url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord909][CodeWord909][/url].html[/url]
And seriously it does not need to be Disneyland but if punters loose all their ethics and empathy for others than there is not much humanity left in those people and Germany had a quite a few of those people during the second world war.
So my position is this: I go to FKKs but choose the girls who tell me about their set-up like that they are staying in a hotel as they could not register in Germany, where they have been before (other FKK or else) , have their own car, saving to buy a house etc. Just relaxed about their life and aspirations. Not the type: I'm not here to talk, let's go to the room and do it. You can literally feel the tension with the trafficked girls and they still make money because they are hot and as we can see on this forum there are enough man who don't care. And the scary thing is at the end all of us may loose with all the FKKs being shut-down due collaboration with criminal elements. Already in Rio there was a lot of trouble with raids on Thermas and some were shut forever.
[QUOTE=Ultrahappy; 1408345]So, which clubs are the ones with major Biker shareholders? Which clubs have substantial Turkish gang shareholders? I'd like to know which ones are which. Which clubs are the ones with no overt gang affiliations?
Please share if you know the answer.[/QUOTE]If you knew which clubs they were would you stop going to those particular FKKs and sauna clubs?
It would really narrow down your range of activity. Do you really want to know that?
You must have noticed in some reports the references to all the bikers and Turks.
One of my friends refuses to go to some clubs because of the heavy biker affiliations.
[QUOTE=Angus Magee; 1408139]Let's not beat this into the ground too much. Kimino was making a light joking comparison to his situation as a citizen with a government who expects him to pay taxes for membership or "protection.
In fact the whole damn subject seems close to exhausted if you ask me.
Let's move on.
AM[/QUOTE]Angus Magee,
I was going to let this topic rest, I even desisted from writing for some time in consideration, but what you say is so provocative and since you raise it again, I will continue.
I really cannot see what point you are making. You are defending an opinion that thinks that what we are talking about is akin to a citizen with free choices and forced into this situation. You are making a fool of yourself that you think that.
Maybe you do not have so much life experience or imagination to put yourself in their situation or any real compassion for your fellow human beings? We are talking about an industry with much criminal element and girls that have been exploited.
You think that this is a light hearted topic?
Why is that you want to close this topic down?
Is the truth too difficult for you to digest? Do you turn a blind eye to the pimping that goes in Artemis since it makes you uncomfortable?
You are welcome to your opinion because that is all it is.
After reading various contributions on pimps / handlers etc the only thing I have learned is that payment to these people varies from 0 to 100% and you never know in particular if you are a casual visitor where what point on this percentage payment range that your choosen girl falls into.
Regarding German girls I assume that they would fall into lower percentage if they pay anything at all. I assume some German contributors would have some info on this. If it is low Iwould assume that over time more Romanian girls would gravitate towards local Germans through beter local knowledge, education etc.
In the meantime I think the only thing to do is to treat girls with respect and kindness and be thankful that old ugly fat punters like myself and Kommodore can have a great time wirh these young beautiful girls. I am sure that a large proportion having saved enough money can go home and meet a right partner and have a happy family life.
[QUOTE=Yakob; 1408361]If you knew which clubs they were would you stop going to those particular FKKs and sauna clubs?
It would really narrow down your range of activity. Do you really want to know that?
You must have noticed in some reports the references to all the bikers and Turks.
One of my friends refuses to go to some clubs because of the heavy biker affiliations.[/QUOTE]It may be one of the many factors I consider when deciding which clubs to go to. I consider the facilities, the food, the women, whether the club is gang controlled, the music, the ambiance, friendliness of the staff, etc. (not in that order). In any case, I suspect that the answer to this question is something that many of the forum members would be interested to know. Each forum member can decide how they wish to make use of this information.
Also, it has been observed here many times that a pimped girl has more of an incentive to upsell and provide "rushed" service due to the fact that her earnings are mostly not hers, at least where people are watching the number of rooms a girl makes. Independent girls who get to keep all of the earnings make not be so incentivized. Maybe this is not the case, but many posts here have suggested this.
Yes, I have read many posts suggesting that World is 81 controlled. Other than that, I don't know which gangs are controlling which clubs.
If anyone is afraid to post this information because you're afraid that the gangs will come and beat you up, just PM me, and I'll post this info for everyone's benefit.
[QUOTE=Ultrahappy; 1408397]It may be one of the many factors I consider when deciding which clubs to go to. I consider the facilities, the food, the women, whether the club is gang controlled, the music, the ambiance, friendliness of the staff, etc. (not in that order). In any case, I suspect that the answer to this question is something that many of the forum members would be interested to know. Each forum member can decide how they wish to make use of this information.
Also, it has been observed here many times that a pimped girl has more of an incentive to upsell and provide "rushed" service due to the fact that her earnings are mostly not hers, at least where people are watching the number of rooms a girl makes. Independent girls who get to keep all of the earnings make not be so incentivized. Maybe this is not the case, but many posts here have suggested this.
Yes, I have read many posts suggesting that World is 81 controlled. Other than that, I don't know which gangs are controlling which clubs.
If anyone is afraid to post this information because you're afraid that the gangs will come and beat you up, just PM me, and I'll post this info for everyone's benefit.[/QUOTE]Ultrahappy, don't be sad. Brother Yakob is a nice chap.
It looks a bit strange your question put this way but I happy to share with you what is known to me. This is based on various sources of infos, mostly long standing girls working for years in each of the clubs.
Bikers: World, Mainhattan, Finca Erotica, Planet Eden and Freude 39.
Turkish: Samya, Magnum, PHG (this latter was surprising me but it has been confirmed by a girl I know since many many years and who started there and is freand of management).
I hope you are happy with that, however and obviously, if you have any doubt, you can always get in the clubs and first of all ask the reception their affiliation and then make your choice if to stay or not, LOL!
[QUOTE=Capt Dan;1408324]Hats off to both Kommodore and Indi Companion for telling it like it is. Thanks for posting something interesting and informative Guys. Well done![/QUOTE]Hey CD, I am happy you appreciated the infos and our posts!
I wait to see you around the Bikers Disneyland, LOL!
[QUOTE=Ossian;1408285]Best explanation that I have read why its hard for some races to get into GT.[/QUOTE]Thanks Ossian,
This are quite well known things, but I still remain of the opinion that most of the people prefer to turn their heads the other way.
[QUOTE=Ilink; 1408374]After reading various contributions on pimps / handlers etc the only thing I have learned is that payment to these people varies from 0 to 100% and you never know in particular if you are a casual visitor where what point on this percentage payment range that your choosen girl falls into.
Regarding German girls I assume that they would fall into lower percentage if they pay anything at all. I assume some German contributors would have some info on this. If it is low Iwould assume that over time more Romanian girls would gravitate towards local Germans through beter local knowledge, education etc.
In the meantime I think the only thing to do is to treat girls with respect and kindness and be thankful that old ugly fat punters like myself and Kommodore can have a great time wirh these young beautiful girls. I am sure that a large proportion having saved enough money can go home and meet a right partner and have a happy family life.[/QUOTE]Unfortunately, German girls are not exception.
Go around in GT or in Mainhattan or in World and you will know it.
My buddy and I know girls who paid or are paying 50 percent of their income to their biking boyfriends.
You are right, what we can do is to threat these girls with respect and thank them for all what they do for us. But most people forgets also about that and "use" the girls like objects just because they say they are customers and they are paying. Then, they blame because they get bad services. I would add, well deserved bad services in such cases, LOL!
[QUOTE=Indi Companion; 1408536]This is based on various sources of infos, mostly long standing girls working for years in each of the clubs.
Bikers: World, Mainhattan, Finca Erotica, Planet Eden and Freude 39.
Turkish: Samya, Magnum, PHG (this latter was surprising me but it has been confirmed by a girl I know since many many years and who started there and is freand of management).[/QUOTE]Interesting that Oase is not mentioned in either of these two affliations. Where does that leave BHH: affiliated with the Italian Mafia? Or perhaps it is owned and run by the Deutsche Council of Bad Food and Lack of Hygiene? :)
But I still love the place!
O
[QUOTE=Ortos; 1408684]Interesting that Oase is not mentioned in either of these two affliations. Where does that leave BHH: affiliated with the Italian Mafia? Or perhaps it is owned and run by the Deutsche Council of Bad Food and Lack of Hygiene? .
But I still love the place!
O[/QUOTE]You can always ask Mauro, I am sure he will be more than happy to clarify the point and introduce you to the real shareholders of the place, LOL!
[QUOTE=Ortos; 1408684]Interesting that Oase is not mentioned in either of these two affliations. Where does that leave BHH: affiliated with the Italian Mafia? Or perhaps it is owned and run by the [B]Deutsche Council of Bad Food and Lack of Hygiene? [/B].
But I still love the place!
O[/QUOTE]Haha. True!
On a more serious note, is there anybody with an IQ over 90 how really haven't understod that this type of bussniess attracts a lot of shady people? For most people that are selling sex, it is not there first choice of what they would like to work with. What we are buying are a illusion of the perfect GFE, pornslut and so on, the reality is something else. If you can't live with that. Don't pay for sexual favors. But with that said if you see a girl that are apparently not being treated right [if you can see that, wich I doubt you always can] what kind of person are you if you take advantage of that? The last part was not directed to Ortos how I quoted.
[QUOTE=Indi Companion; 1408536]Ultrahappy, don't be sad. Brother Yakob is a nice chap.
It looks a bit strange your question put this way but I happy to share with you what is known to me. This is based on various sources of infos, mostly long standing girls working for years in each of the clubs.
Bikers: World, Mainhattan, Finca Erotica, Planet Eden and Freude 39.
Turkish: Samya, Magnum, PHG (this latter was surprising me but it has been confirmed by a girl I know since many many years and who started there and is freand of management).
I hope you are happy with that, however and obviously, if you have any doubt, you can always get in the clubs and first of all ask the reception their affiliation and then make your choice if to stay or not, LOL![/QUOTE]Great list Indi! Notably missing from this list are Oase, Sharks, Goldentimes, Living Room, and Acapulco. Anyone want to suggest any particular gang ownership or strong gang affiliations with these clubs? Maybe I will start my own gang at one of these clubs? I probably don't have enough tattoos to pull this off though. LOL.
I fully realize that pimp activities can continue regardless of gang affiliations and ownerships. I'm just wondering whether these remaining clubs are actively taking part in encouraging such activities or if they are the clubs that take a more "hands-off" approach.
Does anyone notice a difference in service at these gang affiliated clubs versus non-gang affiliated clubs (for example, more upselling, etc)? Or, do you guys think that gang affiliation isn't enough of a factor to be able to generalize about this?
[QUOTE=Ortos; 1408684]Interesting that Oase is not mentioned in either of these two affliations. Where does that leave BHH: affiliated with the Italian Mafia? Or perhaps it is owned and run by the Deutsche Council of Bad Food and Lack of Hygiene? .
But I still love the place!
O[/QUOTE]You can look up the holding company (GmbH) that owns the Oase club and the Director who lives in Steinbach. You make an appointment to meets the man.
Another club you leave out is Palace. What about that?
But as we may know it has been heard that Palace in Frankfurt is affiliated with Paradise in the Stuttgart.
Then there was the Albanian Egon that run the Sharks but now I hear from the mans that go there that the Turkish have taken over.
I always understood that the Golden Time was owned by another holding company which provides services to it and in return receives the management fee for the provision thereof. There are some intricate structures that the people at Enron would have been proud of. Even the 81ers will have their advisers on making the efficient use of structuring to make it all look legit.