Bangkok Massage Parlors - Except TULIP and ANNIES!

[QUOTE=WarmStone25;2152419]It is interesting to note that on one side of the road a Bangkok icon, Annies, closes, appearing to lacking investment. On the other side of the road Nana Plaza receives significant investment. I wonder if the authorities are involved in this, perhaps demanding improvement or closure as a way of restricting a certain kind of tourism.[/QUOTE]Bangkok Massage Parlors. Except TULIP and ANNIES!

Except Annies should be obvious and Nana Plaza not being a MP, I'm not sure why you feel the need to bring that point in this sub forum rather than the BKK Reports or Annies sub forums :)

[QUOTE=Dan7373;2152191]I think a good way to succeed for a newly opened bar is to create some partnership with the ladies and share your profits with them, instead of just having them as your employees.

<SNIP> That's why you need to have them as your business partners, rather than employees. And on these terms, you probably won't have any trouble attracting some of the best ladies in the business.

[/QUOTE]I was hoping your advice was just a joke, but then I saw you have over 900 posts, and most of them on the Thailand board.

Do you really think that a Westerner should go into business with an illiterate prostitute in a country he doesn't know much about? You've got to stop giving worthless advice like this.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2152257]Try to cut out the agencies these days and you will find yourself in a world of trouble. You can't fight the system anywhere in Thailand. You have to go with the flow and work within it.[/QUOTE]From what I've read in this forum before, there are some examples of where massage ladies have gone into business for themselves and opened their own massage parlor. Some ladies from Tulip Massage have opened Snow White and some other places like that.

I don't think anybody will stop the ladies from doing this kind of stuff, when they understand the business from inside, know the right people, and know what to do.

And that's actually the reason why you need to have partners, who know the business, rather than try to do it by yourself. As a foreigner, you don't know enough of the local situation to succeed on your own.

I think many women, who are working in the business now, have enough know-how to succeed in a business like this, not just as managers, but also as business partners, who continue to do the massage work with customers. Because you can find examples, where such women have done exactly this.

What makes for a successful P4P business in Bangkok or indeed anywhere? For me it's simple, having an interesting concept, good location, top class facilities, attractive trained staff, customer focused service, professional management, successful marketing and full compliance with all the requirements of the local "authorities". Did I miss anything?

[QUOTE=EngineDriver;2152647]I was hoping your advice was just a joke, but then I saw you have over 900 posts, and most of them on the Thailand board.

Do you really think that a Westerner should go into business with an illiterate prostitute in a country he doesn't know much about? You've got to stop giving worthless advice like this.[/QUOTE]I think you should stop pre-judging people based on stereotypes, without knowing them personally. Because even the word 'prostitute' is a Western word that means something different from the way it works in Thailand.

You are imposing Western stereotypes on people in a non-Western country, where everything is different from the way it is in the West.

[QUOTE=Dan7373;2152683]From what I've read in this forum before, there are some examples of where massage ladies have gone into business for themselves and opened their own massage parlor. Some ladies from Tulip Massage have opened Snow White and some other places like that.

I don't think anybody will stop the ladies from doing this kind of stuff, when they understand the business from inside, know the right people, and know what to do.

And that's actually the reason why you need to have partners, who know the business, rather than try to do it by yourself. As a foreigner, you don't know enough of the local situation to succeed on your own.

I think many women, who are working in the business now, have enough know-how to succeed in a business like this, not just as managers, but also as business partners, who continue to do the massage work with customers. Because you can find examples, where such women have done exactly this.[/QUOTE]Oily parlor yes. GoGo no.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;2151424]Most newly opened bars in Nana have failed pretty quickly. The big competition really is to have enough pretty girls. This seems to make bars hire a lot of Coyotes from the Agency. Not clear to me why there are a lot of Ladyboy bars too. The bar scene does not look promising.

Some bars have managed to improve their line up of girls. Some their bars I would still have a look, however did not take a girl for several months. Not easy to pick out the good girls. The best sign for me is lovey dovey girls that start kissing in the bar. Any stand offish attitude and they are likely to be crap. Same applies to Cowboy, where have only been taking my regular girls for some extended time (one of those is shy to kiss in public but I know her well enough). I had a great girl at Billboard for a while but she found a Farang BF very quickly, hardly surprising.[/QUOTE]There are no topless girls in Billboard anymore and the lineup sucks.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2152684]What makes for a successful P4P business in Bangkok or indeed anywhere? For me it's simple, having an interesting concept, good location, top class facilities, attractive trained staff, customer focused service, professional management, successful marketing and full compliance with all the requirements of the local "authorities". Did I miss anything?[/QUOTE]I'd say that you've missed the most important thing for any business to have. Which is the price of your service or product for customers.

Without money, there is no business. You need to make enough money to pay for all of the business expenses and have a reasonable surplus to pay yourself too. But the higher price you set, the fewer customers you will have. This is partly because of competition and partly because the higher the price, the fewer people can afford it. The higher the price, the smaller is your target market, and the fewer customers you will have.

You can have everything you've listed above. But if you get the price wrong, then your business might fail.

[QUOTE=Dan7373;2153196]I'd say that you've missed the most important thing for any business to have. Which is the price of your service or product for customers.

Without money, there is no business. You need to make enough money to pay for all of the business expenses and have a reasonable surplus to pay yourself too. But the higher price you set, the fewer customers you will have. This is partly because of competition and partly because the higher the price, the fewer people can afford it. The higher the price, the smaller is your target market, and the fewer customers you will have.

You can have everything you've listed above. But if you get the price wrong, then your business might fail.[/QUOTE]I've been in business all my life Dan. I've never opened a knocking shop but there are basic principles which apply to all businesses.

To avoid boring people I didn't go into detail on each of the requirements but as anybody with a passing acquaintance with the basics of marketing (which I did mention) knows price is one of the 4 P'S.

Where you pitch this depends on who your target customer is. I believe in Bangkok there a market for a high-end establishment charging a premium price for a premium product.

A lot depends on your budget which in turn especially in Bangkok depends on the terms of your lease. No point investing 10 mil. Plus on key money and fit out if the best lease you can get is three years. Here best go for the mass market with competitive pricing etc etc etc.

I used to get top notch service and reasonable quality from these two in the past. However last 3 years were pretty much duds. Judging by past few months' reports, things seems to be pretty much the same.

So am I correct in assuming that there are no gems with earth shattering service in these places anymore?

Secondly does anyone has any recommendations for threesomes at snow white or similar establishment except Tulip which I have shortlisted already?

[QUOTE=Margaya;2153327]I used to get top notch service and reasonable quality from these two in the past. However last 3 years were pretty much duds. Judging by past few months' reports, things seems to be pretty much the same.

So am I correct in assuming that there are no gems with earth shattering service in these places anymore?

Secondly does anyone has any recommendations for threesomes at snow white or similar establishment except Tulip which I have shortlisted already?[/QUOTE]Mango really dropped the ball when they added the 500 Baht "butt-penalty" IMHO. The girls are no better than SW, in fact I would say SW has a better lineup, yet they want to charge more and have not increased quality. I have no problem paying more if I am getting more. Boss is a bit more expensive but a far nicer experience overall. Gals are not PSE, but still quite fun.

Cherry IMHO is in need of renovations, its kind of grungy, and it just is not the most pleasant atmosphere. Just seems far from professional when compared with some of the other places.

When is someone going to open a PSE place with really hot gals? Think we would all be willing to pay for that. But again, we are in Thailand, and the better looking a gal is, the less she is willing to do.

[QUOTE=Sinofaguo;2152428]Had a good massage with happy ending at Cam Can lately [URL]http://www.cancam-massage.com[/URL].

Girls are younger / better looking than the average MP in the area, definatly not a PSE place though.

The fact 2/3 of the girls advertise no FS made me think this place could be good material for massage + happy ending in a japanese style.[/QUOTE]Can Cam had always had girls of above average looks causing me to be a sometime customer. I always had FS, although perhaps 2 girls were absolute crap for service, the rest okay To good.

So is it a "fact" that 2/3 do not provide sex? Sure some will be lazy once you paid the full all in price. I would have thought the market for just HJ would not be that strong.

Does it imply that some guys cannot get off on a BBBJ? I never had CBJ there that I can remember.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;2153564]
So is it a "fact" that 2/3 do not provide sex? Sure some will be lazy once you paid the full all in price. [/QUOTE][URL]http://www.cancam-massage.com/gals/[/URL] if you google translate the gals detailed services, most don't provide FS.

I don't call this lazy, they just offer whatever service they feel ok with to offer.

As long as they don't trick anyone, you are free not to go with those not providing the services you need.

One could argue the price should be different if the service is not the same but again as long as you have the choice and prefer paying beauty with HJ or CBJ over poor looks and FS, its a choice.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;2153564]I would have thought the market for just HJ would not be that strong.[/QUOTE]There is a strong market for sexy university students giving massage in MPs with service usually limited to HJ, sometimes BJ and rarely FS.

These Thai website will give you an idea of the size of this market (50+ MPs listed), though most of them are in remote areas, very few in Sukhumvit.

[URL]www.kapooclub.com[/URL]

[URL]www.kapooclubwebboard.net[/URL]

[QUOTE=Syzygies;2153564]
Does it imply that some guys cannot get off on a BBBJ? I never had CBJ there that I can remember.[/QUOTE]Everyone sets their own boundaries. Having normal sexual life at home I'm just happy to have a very relaxing yet erotic happy ending massage.

I feel China and Japan do much better than Thailand on this topic but still, you can have good experiences, especially in japanese oriented shops.

[QUOTE=Sinofaguo;2153608]if you google translate the gals detailed services, most don't provide FS.

I don't call this lazy, they just offer whatever service they feel ok with to offer.

As long as they don't trick anyone, you are free not to go with those not providing the services you need.

One could argue the price should be different if the service is not the same but again as long as you have the choice and prefer paying beauty with HJ or CBJ over poor looks and FS, its a choice.

There is a strong market for sexy university students giving massage in MPs with service usually limited to HJ, sometimes BJ and rarely FS.

These Thai website will give you an idea of the size of this market (50+ MPs listed), though most of them are in remote areas, very few in Sukhumvit.

[URL]www.kapooclub.com[/URL]

[URL]www.kapooclubwebboard.net[/URL]

Everyone sets their own boundaries. Having normal sexual life at home I'm just happy to have a very relaxing yet erotic happy ending massage.

I feel China and Japan do much better than Thailand on this topic but still, you can have good experiences, especially in japanese oriented shops.[/QUOTE]Sad really. The entire "I don't provide FS" and kapoo phenom. It's had a very negative effect on the scene. Owners and punters who allow this have really just decreased service levels for us all. Of course it all fits in nicely with the current conservative revival in Thailand where sex is seen to be beneath most women who fancy themselves women of higher status. Too bad guys just don't laugh and walk. If that happened enough, gals would be providing service if they wanted to earn money. I don't blame the gals at all. The blame rests with the punters who accept this crap.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2153616]Sad really. The entire "I don't provide FS" and kapoo phenom. It's had a very negative effect on the scene. Owners and punters who allow this have really just decreased service levels for us all. Of course it all fits in nicely with the current conservative revival in Thailand where sex is seen to be beneath most women who fancy themselves women of higher status. Too bad guys just don't laugh and walk. If that happened enough, gals would be providing service if they wanted to earn money. I don't blame the gals at all. The blame rests with the punters who accept this crap.[/QUOTE]The scene as you call it can be diverse.

Kapoos for HJs, BJ Bar for BJs, Gogo / KTV for FS takeaway, Saunas for FS, soapies being MP hybrids offering both HJ / BJ and FS for intermediate price and the usual call girls or street girls for whatever you negotiate.

Kapoos have been around for a very very long time and are not related to a "conservative revival".

Some people on this forum seem to think the same Tulip, Mango, Cherry, Snow, Annies and Chrome and their clones on Sukumvit sois are representative from the MP scene in BKK as a whole.
They are not, its a very limited part of the scene, mostly farang oriented and there is much more to be experienced in BKK.

But I get your frustration, I have the same frustration you do when I go to a shop labbeled as providing erotic massage with HJ / BJ happy ending and instead I get a not so erotic massage and several requests of going FS because the girl wants a higher tip and spend less energy on the massage.

In the end its all about getting what you are being advertised for and getting what you are willingly paying for.