Kyiv

It all depends on where you are and the time of day. Even oligarchs wear ties during the day.

I hit Kiev in 2004, spent probably 3-4 years in total in Ukraine and have about 1200 names and numbers in my Ukrainian mobile phone, please do tell me how it really is.

[QUOTE=PedroToronja;1281123]I happen to be the president of a corporation and I dress usually with suit or at least a blazer, nice pants and wear a tie. A girl explained to me that the real rich men in this part of the world DO NOT wear a tie. The people who work for them wear ties. The rich (called oligarchs here) can afford a more casual look. The bottom line, if you dress up to impress, as we do in the West, it is interpreted here (I am in Kiev now) as a want to be.[/QUOTE]

My success must be unique to me.

See you at the club with the Afflication shirt and bling on.

BTW - pleats are currently back in fashion, although it was never a look I liked.

[QUOTE=Prosal; 1280781]Well, depends of the suit. An 1500€ Roberto Cavalli, Pal Zileri or Zegna suit (slim cut, straight pants, two buttons, ect) and a 500$ out of date three buttons suit with pleat-front pants (or worse, cuffs) are two very different things. Slavic girls are VERY fashion-conscious and are very good at jauging what you wear (and very fast to write you off if they judge that you are cheap and has-been).

Recently I bumped into the photo galleries of the famous "romance tours in Ukraine" organized for yanks by Anastasia dot com (or something alike) and I ROTFLOL just to see how most of the guys were dressed, that is with outmoded and cheap suits.

Anyway, I don't imagine myself wearing a suit in a club, but as usual, to each its own.[/QUOTE]

I generally have one of my girls call one of the various taxi dispatchers for me.

Otherwise I try to keep it to under 30uah in the center. If one taxi is too high just say no and go to the next.

[QUOTE=Wallyally; 1281006]Look. Plese do not do this! Learn Russian numbers for taxi, do NEVER pay more than 50 unless going to the airport!

We need to keep it real, so HELP, all of you![/QUOTE]

Spoken like someone with his sights set on average. Enjoy.

[QUOTE=Barba; 1281064]Sad to see how so many here are discussing how to impress on the females with these shoes or that brand of clothes. Sure it is fine to dress well and feel like a winner, but get some self esteem guys. A monthly salary for a teacher is 200 USD. No need to wear Armani unless your ego needs this to be able to talk to a girl. And of you are trying to impress prostitutes with your clothes, you are in serious need of some coaching.

Either I was warped to another Ukraine, or guys here believe all the shit these girls try to fill them with. Take command and be a positive and interesting guy, and you can wear almost whatever you wish and still meet great girls. ISG is the place where men create fantasy versions of a country, and the need to qualify for the females are always an ingredient in every fantasy incarnation I see.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cruiser D;1281288]Spoken like someone with his sights set on average. Enjoy.[/QUOTE]CD, try to see beyond you own need to come across as a winner in every post you make, and read what I am actually writing. A looser in a suit is still a looser. Most women will choose a self secure man / winner rather than a well dressed looser. Powerful DNA and self distance prevails. Only the females with equally corrupt and weak egos will stare herself blind on the brand of the suit. Real quality females will rarely fall for the cheap expensive suit trick (especially not if you look outside the [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] poor sheit holes of this globe). Where a man has collected the 1200 numbers is irrelevant if one can see the bigger picture / patterns. I guess it all depends on how you define "average". Most men are pathetic in their anxious and vain need to impress (mostly themselves).

I agree that a bad dressed looser is perhaps the absolute worst combination for scoring pretty girls. And to dress well will rarely hurt the cause, even though Prosal has a point about being the club clown. Females are attracted to recourses (financial, intellectual etc). If you project an image of controlling resources by any mean, they will be attracted to you. The most impressive resource controller is perhaps a humoristic, financially independent and intelligent man with a good portion of self distance, yet in touch with the monkey that will f*ck her like the female she is. Or is this just my own vanity speaking?

All the best from Barba (who did not wear jeans since the mid 90s)

Anyone with experience from this girl? Told me she is not into P4P when we had lunch. I need to qualify with time. Model that just turned 18. I checked her passport. PM if you know her but do not wish to take it here.

B.

I can test her for you. Tonight, if you want! PM me with details, I will post or PM you my report.

[QUOTE=Barba; 1281315]Anyone with experience from this girl? Told me she is not into P4P when we had lunch. I need to qualify with time. Model that just turned 18. I checked her passport. PM if you know her but do not wish to take it here.

B.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cruiser D;1281279]BTW - pleats are currently back in fashion.[/QUOTE]You must be attempting humour here.

[QUOTE=Barba; 1281064]Sad to see how so many here are discussing how to impress on the females with these shoes or that brand of clothes. Sure it is fine to dress well and feel like a winner, but get some self esteem guys. A monthly salary for a teacher is 200 USD. No need to wear Armani unless your ego needs this to be able to talk to a girl.[/QUOTE]To say that someone who is well-dressed is someone who lacks of self esteem is simply silly. Of course, being well-groomed doesn't compensate a lack of self-confidence, charm, witt or poise. But you can have those qualities AND have taste in the way you dress.

About the 200us$ teacher, let me disagree also. Dyevs, whatever their social class, their age group or their expectations, inevitably dress to the tens when they go out, and for most of them anything less than a similarly well-appointed guy is not a guy worth fucking. It's a question of self-respect. Especially if you're a foreigner. Coming from the West, you CAN'T convince a Russian girl that you don't like or can't afford to dress well. It's beyond her comprehension. It has been said many many times here, dressing style is even more important than looks in this part of the world.

BTW Armani is now just a mid-level brand which abuse of the ridiculously emblazoned clothes that screams out that the wearer is a poseur.

[QUOTE=Barba; 1281064]ISG is the place where men create fantasy versions of a country, and the need to qualify for the females are always an ingredient in every fantasy incarnation I see.[/QUOTE]You seem to forget that Russia, Ukraine, ect are definitely class societies and you want (you must) to show everybody which class you are in. The fashion issue is an unending issue in FSU. Russian (and Ukrainian for that matter) girls are second to none in their obsession with it. I agree that they are very superficial in that respect.

As a Moscow resident rightly said in the ISG Russia forums, being well-groomed is deadly effective in FSU. Dress with rafinement and style (the "style" IMO doesn't include to wear a suit) and you'll literally pushing girls off of you, no matter your language skills.

I hate to tell you all this: Racism is alive and well in Ukraine. Haven't you heard about? : a black guy from USA embassy jogging around town was harassed and beaten up by the Kiev police. And a Korean guy was killed in Kharkov?

[QUOTE=BlackMagic777;1280551]I am African American and I actually been here in Kiev for 1 month and will be here for 2 more months. I have wesley snipes complexion (very dark) but like to think I have a really cool style when it comes to fashion. Pedro was right in the sense of not walking by yourself at night out of crowded areas downtown and nearby clubs or bars. Now granted I will be honest. I have only been out 1 time since I have been here and that was to TGI Fridays with a puerto rican friend of mines. I got stares from women but none in which I could actually decipher and I kept walking. I chose not to speak cause I figured they either did not speak english or would not speak to me in fear of ukranian men watching them or something. (that was my reasoning). Now I could have been wrong but if you step out. You will get stares from men also (some good, some bad). In reality no one on this site can tell you what people think about you because they are not black. Now they can go off what women may tell them or darker complexion friends they may have went out with. Climax kindly gave me pointers also as to what to expect here and you get mixed reviews. Some guys here will say ukranian women love darker complexion guys because you would be considered exotic, some guys will tell you ukranian women may or may not talk to you. I decided to use mamba and banged 2 chicks. Both about 6 or 7 in my book, but they were both freebies simply because they were fascinated with black men. I got a few messages from women who said they are not into black men so it's a toss up. While you are in town. Let me know and I may hang with you. Granted I have not stepped foot in a single club or bar except TGI Fridays. I am still earning this place[/QUOTE]

You're very funny with this "Blink" thing in your reports.

[QUOTE=Barba; 1280787]LJ, I am humming the immigrant song for you, and then you can maybe figure out approximately where I come from.

Yea, we always have to talk to the girls before we take them home, don't we. There can be bitches everywhere. But I am glad to read that you found many sweet girls in the pay for play venues. If one likes to "hunt" in a hard core prostitution environment, it is always nice if there is some atmosphere and some friendly people. I agree, it can be comfortable to shoot fish in a barrel. One parameter is already taken care of so to speak. You can be pretty sure they will f*ck you unless you smell or are a bastard. The parameter of what they will do is almost always a trade off with girls who took the step and publicly works as prostitutes. They will for sure almost always have some "rule" that their imaginary pride or health are hung up on. But we horny dogs can take that as long as they are friendly or pretend to be friendly at least. I will remember to talk to the girl next time I get a lap dance. Will be tough but the things we do not put ourselves through to have some variation in the barba-burgers we dive in to. A newfound friend told me you can either touch the girl up or wank off in the dance boot. The napkins in the one boot I had a dance in, during my visit to Kiev, indicates that not everyone go for touching the female. I tried to do a little bit of both and no alarm went off. I forgot the name of that club but the girl was pretty. An 8. 36 in my book. Blink.

In shooters I met a couple of very friendly girls. I do not think they where hard core pros because we where dancing and partying all night. I was drained and normally do not like to fuck after a bottle of vodka anyway, but got some numbers that I did not follow up on properly. I love the hunt. Woff. Since some speak of skin color here, it seems like they sometimes will refuse entry for people with darker skin and hair. But I would still try Shooters because it is great fun. Vodka bar is more edgy with more drunk, young Ukraine boys but still good fun. My ISG buddy almost got into a fight over a female but a knight saved him before it got serious. Later the same Ukrainian guys where fighting someone else, and then choose to take a punch at the guards so I imagine at least the little cocky prick where in sever pain after the six guards where done.

This was the view that kept me dancing, even after the bottles started to fly all around us. Nice girl with sexy moves but Barba and his agent buddy slipped and failed with her and her big tit friend. Anyone else know them?

B.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Prosal; 1281442]To say that someone who is well-dressed is someone who lacks of self esteem is simply silly. Of course, being well-groomed doesn't compensate a lack of self-confidence, charm, witt or poise. But you can have those qualities AND have taste in the way you dress.

About the 200us$ teacher, let me disagree also. Dyevs, whatever their social class, their age group or their expectations, inevitably dress to the tens when they go out, and for most of them anything less than a similarly well-appointed guy is not a guy worth fucking. It's a question of self-respect. Especially if you're a foreigner. Coming from the West, you CAN'T convince a Russian girl that you don't like or can't afford to dress well. It's beyond her comprehension. It has been said many many times here, dressing style is even more important than looks in this part of the world.

BTW Armani is now just a mid-level brand which abuse of the ridiculously emblazoned clothes that screams out that the wearer is a poseur.

You seem to forget that Russia, Ukraine, ect are definitely class societies and you want (you must) to show everybody which class you are in. The fashion issue is an unending issue in FSU. Russian (and Ukrainian for that matter) girls are second to none in their obsession with it. I agree that they are very superficial in that respect.

As a Moscow resident rightly said in the ISG Russia forums, being well-groomed is deadly effective in FSU. Dress with rafinement and style (the "style" IMO doesn't include to wear a suit) and you'll literally pushing girls off of you, no matter your language skills.[/QUOTE]I could not agree more with this post! As someone who has spent time in Budapest, Kiev and Minsk I know Eastern and Central European women love a well dressed man. In fact most women from all cultures do. I know a very sexy Russian girl from St. Petersburg who now lives in my city in Canada. Her name is Viktoria. She told me when she was living in Russia she met with a Canadian guy in SPB that she met off of the internet. According to her the guy dressed terrible and she was astonished as he was from the west and surely could afford better clothes. Needless to say she never met with him again. What is more, most men in Ukraine and Belarus dress like shit or can't afford to dress better than they do. In these countries dressing like you have money usually means you have money and the ladies here (I am in Minsk right now) love it. Especially if you're sponsoring some young hottie. Her being seen with a well dressed guy from the west is a status symbol for her and that only works out well for you in the end!

Let me refer back to Viktoria. When I came into the office wearing a Lacoste polo, a smart pair of dress pants and well made leather dress shoes she said 'Oh, the girls in Minsk are going to like you! ' And they do. I wear clothes you can't get in these countries, only in the west. You don't have to wear Armani. That's ridiculous! If you want some advice on what or where to buy clothes send me a PM. I have some great suggestions (and no I don't work for a retail company so can the hate mail!). Just keep in mind what I said. In the FSU looking like you have money garnished with a western accent usually means you have money and that is a big plus when meeting women here. Good luck, gentlemen!

[QUOTE=CanadianBoy;1281529]In the FSU looking like you have money garnished with a western accent usually means you have money and that is a big plus when meeting women here.[/QUOTE]Right, but as Pedro rightly said to overdo is as bad as dressing too low. Best is to look fashionable and refined, but not obsessed with it. That is why IMO intentionally wearing a suit in a club is ludicrous. We're not in the 90s anymore. Now a sex-weaned foreigner who dress like a "biznessman" solely with the intention to impress is rather a subject of mockery.

[QUOTE=Barba; 1281315]Anyone with experience from this girl? Told me she is not into P4P when we had lunch. I need to qualify with time. Model that just turned 18. I checked her passport. PM if you know her but do not wish to take it here.

B.[/QUOTE]Haha, what is that girl going to model for? Halloween costumes?

[QUOTE=Cruiser D; 1281276]It all depends on where you are and the time of day. Even oligarchs wear ties during the day.

I hit Kiev in 2004, spent probably 3-4 years in total in Ukraine and have about 1200 names and numbers in my Ukrainian mobile phone, please do tell me how it really is.[/QUOTE]Cruiser, from your posts I take it that you are very knowledgeable of the place. The issue of tie or not is not quite important, but it is (at least) the fashion for the past 2 years or so. It was true this morning in Volkonsky in Passage, it was on the posters of the politicians running on the past election, on the guys sitting on the back of the Maybacks, Mercedes, etc. Also in Passage (the drivers and bodyguards do wear ties). It was the case last night in Buddah (amazing hookers at the bar, as usual). Again, this is just an observation and not truly important.

[QUOTE=LilJoey; 1281259]Pedro, if you decide to enter

And so in over a year of taking out dates from the strip club using care[/QUOTE]LJ, you are right, I did not read either the posts you mention or the entire reply you provided to Barba last: I scanned it and saw that 3 letter word yet AGAIN, of the one strip club (in singular) you appear to make reference above when you tell us you took dates from it for over a year. It would appear that you have a connection, if not trying to help them, at least as an 'aficionado'. Maybe it was a typo, but you point to a single club for your 'take out' for over a year.

LJ, I have been to strip clubs and other houses of "ill repute" for as long as I can remember, and that is VERY long. Girls that strip, give lap dances and provide outcalls are beyond jaded. I find it impossible to believe that in such place you frequently find GFE material. The 'interview' stage you mention. Is quite surprising to me also. These girls are professionals and masterful at their art: if an interview takes place, you are the interviewee, they are the interviewer. Other than deciding if you want to bed her or not, if you want to pay the fee or not, there is not much else you are in a position to decide. We may deal with a few of those girls a month (probably not every month). They deal with guys like you or me every day, tons of us. Is not an even playing field. Anyway, please don't take offense, I was just sick of reading yet again another mention of that club in a good light. Yes, saying that you find GFE material there, is putting them in a good light and promoting them. If anything, we 'come here' to get info so we don't get stuck, we do the fucking instead of getting screwed, to use our mongering budget intelligently. We need to tell is as it is, at least among us.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D; 1281280]I generally have one of my girls call one of the various taxi dispatchers for me.

Otherwise I try to keep it to under 30uah in the center. If one taxi is too high just say no and go to the next.[/QUOTE]Then avoid getting in a cab anywhere in Krechiatik or around Premier Palace. There the prices start at 100 hrivnas, and normally stay at that level unless you go to the airport. It is always cheaper to call a taxi by phone, with the help of a local. Then it may be around 30 hrivnas around downtown.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D;1281288]Spoken like someone with his sights set on average. Enjoy.[/QUOTE]You are not going to impress a prostitute, and there is no need to do that, we agree. When they talk about 'impressing' I assume they are talking about civilians or that hybrid of 'normal' girl who would not mind supplement her income with a gift from a much older guy who wants to do her. Dressing nice, treating them with courtesy, may get you (it happened to me many times) a better pussy than the one you get from a pro. Yes, clean shoes are a very important indication for most women over here.

[QUOTE=Prosal; 1281442]To say that someone who is well-dressed is someone who lacks of self esteem is simply silly. Of course, being well-groomed doesn't compensate a lack of self-confidence, charm, witt or poise. But you can have those qualities AND have taste in the way you dress.

About the 200us$ teacher, let me disagree also. Dyevs, whatever their social class, their age group or their expectations, inevitably dress to the tens when they go out, and for most of them anything less than a similarly well-appointed guy is not a guy worth fucking. It's a question of self-respect. Especially if you're a foreigner. Coming from the West, you CAN'T convince a Russian girl that you don't like or can't afford to dress well. It's beyond her comprehension. It has been said many many times here, dressing style is even more important than looks in this part of the world.

BTW Armani is now just a mid-level brand which abuse of the ridiculously emblazoned clothes that screams out that the wearer is a poseur.

You seem to forget that Russia, Ukraine, ect are definitely class societies and you want (you must) to show everybody which class you are in. The fashion issue is an unending issue in FSU. Russian (and Ukrainian for that matter) girls are second to none in their obsession with it. I agree that they are very superficial in that respect.

As a Moscow resident rightly said in the ISG Russia forums, being well-groomed is deadly effective in FSU. Dress with rafinement and style (the "style" IMO doesn't include to wear a suit) and you'll literally pushing girls off of you, no matter your language skills.[/QUOTE]Fully agree with Prosal. BTW, drop Armani. Brioni, Kiton, Stefano Ricci, Loro Piana, perhaps a Zegna. Aim higher my friend.

[QUOTE=CanadianBoy; 1281529]I could not agree more with this post! As someone who has spent time in Budapest, Kiev and Minsk I know Eastern and Central European women love a well dressed man. In fact most women from all cultures do. I know a very sexy Russian girl from St. Petersburg who now lives in my city in Canada. Her name is Viktoria. She told me when she was living in Russia she met with a Canadian guy in SPB that she met off of the internet. According to her the guy dressed terrible and she was astonished as he was from the west and surely could afford better clothes. Needless to say she never met with him again. What is more, most men in Ukraine and Belarus dress like shit or can't afford to dress better than they do. In these countries dressing like you have money usually means you have money and the ladies here (I am in Minsk right now) love it. Especially if you're sponsoring some young hottie. Her being seen with a well dressed guy from the west is a status symbol for her and that only works out well for you in the end!

Let me refer back to Viktoria. When I came into the office wearing a Lacoste polo, a smart pair of dress pants and well made leather dress shoes she said 'Oh, the girls in Minsk are going to like you! ' And they do. I wear clothes you can't get in these countries, only in the west. You don't have to wear Armani. That's ridiculous! If you want some advice on what or where to buy clothes send me a PM. I have some great suggestions (and no I don't work for a retail company so can the hate mail!). Just keep in mind what I said. In the FSU looking like you have money garnished with a western accent usually means you have money and that is a big plus when meeting women here. Good luck, gentlemen![/QUOTE]Can you please give us a brief report on mongering in Minsk? I am only one hour away in Kiev. BTW, I do agree 100% with all you said above. A Uki girl told me that her friends, who saw us walking together to the Opera House, were very impressed by her companion (me) because 'the guy' had an expensive hair cut and good shoes. Ukrainian and Russian men basically cut their hair very short in some cheap salon or at home, no shape, no style, just short and all the same non-style style.

[QUOTE=Barba; 1281313]CD.

I agree that a bad dressed looser is perhaps the absolute worst combination for scoring pretty girls. And to dress well will rarely hurt the cause, even though Prosal has a point about being the club clown. Females are attracted to recourses (financial, intellectual etc). If you project an image of controlling resources by any mean, they will be attracted to you. The most impressive resource controller is perhaps a humoristic, financially independent and intelligent man with a good portion of self distance, yet in touch with the monkey that will f*ck her like the female she is. Or is this just my own vanity speaking?

All the best from Barba (who did not wear jeans since the mid 90s) [/QUOTE]I am going to order made to measure expensive Silk Briefs for myself, so I can preside over the ceremony of the Grand Openings of my Envelpos, each enclosing US$100 crisp notes, just as crisp as my briefs.

And if the US$$$ don't impress the Mamba Girls, My Silk Briefs will.

[blue]Greetings Everyone,

I moved the last several pages of discussion regarding "Rio" to another thread in this forum titled "Rio Night Club".

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?3329-Rio-Night-Club[/url]

This "Thread Splitting" process is not perfect, and it's possible that I may have inadvertently moved / did not move a few reports. If you find that your own report was also moved / not moved, please don't take it personally.

Thanks,

Jackson[/blue]

No, trouser pleats have been all over the runways this year for male fashions.

Stay current. .

[QUOTE=Prosal;1281412]You must be attempting humour here.[/QUOTE]

True about Armani, the name has been over marketed but they still make a nice suit. Versace has seemed to supplanted Armani in the top of the Italian name heap.

But when you get right down to it Armani, Versace and Zenga are about the same quality and price.

[QUOTE=Prosal; 1281442]BTW Armani is now just a mid-level brand which abuse of the ridiculously emblazoned clothes that screams out that the wearer is a poseur.

As a Moscow resident rightly said in the ISG Russia forums, being well-groomed is deadly effective in FSU. Dress with rafinement and style (the "style" IMO doesn't include to wear a suit) and you'll literally pushing girls off of you, no matter your language skills.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Prosal;1281442]To say that someone who is well-dressed is someone who lacks of self esteem is simply silly.[/QUOTE]I agree (who said that?) and I dress well, partly because I travel light and must be dressed for "work" (I only pretend to work nowadays). I think my point is to subtle for this forum so never mind. Let us all instead neurotically describe how smart we dress and then we can all tell each-others that we are OK and will get girls. We should all post pictures of our dream clothes. But we must use movie stars that we think we look like. It is far more interesting than pictures of females we shagged.

Have fun.

Thank you for the offer Wallyally but that was not exactly what I had in mind.

No idea what she is wearing, BeeDiddy but I bet you she is writing about it all the time to her friend on their "how to dress"-board.

Jojosun, LOL!

Cheers from Barba.

On an airport again finally so hasta la vista, pervs!

[blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]

[b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]This report was deleted because the subject was not related to the purpose of this Forum, which is as follows:

The purpose of this Forum is to provide for the exchange if information between men on the subject of finding women for sex.[/blue]

[QUOTE=PedroToronja; 1281642]LJ, you are right, I did not read either the posts you mention or the entire reply you provided to Barba last: I scanned it and saw that 3 letter word yet AGAIN, of the one strip club (in singular) you appear to make reference above when you tell us you took dates from it for over a year. It would appear that you have a connection, if not trying to help them, at least as an 'aficionado'. Maybe it was a typo, but you point to a single club for your 'take out' for over a year.

LJ, I have been to strip clubs and other houses of "ill repute" for as long as I can remember, and that is VERY long. Girls that strip, give lap dances and provide outcalls are beyond jaded. I find it impossible to believe that in such place you frequently find GFE material. The 'interview' stage you mention. Is quite surprising to me also. These girls are professionals and masterful at their art: if an interview takes place, you are the interviewee, they are the interviewer. Other than deciding if you want to bed her or not, if you want to pay the fee or not, there is not much else you are in a position to decide. We may deal with a few of those girls a month (probably not every month). They deal with guys like you or me every day, tons of us. Is not an even playing field. Anyway, please don't take offense, I was just sick of reading yet again another mention of that club in a good light. Yes, saying that you find GFE material there, is putting them in a good light and promoting them. If anything, we 'come here' to get info so we don't get stuck, we do the fucking instead of getting screwed, to use our mongering budget intelligently. We need to tell is as it is, at least among us.[/QUOTE]Pedro, for all your years and experiences, you don't display an understanding of the necessary mongering skills of interviewing girls for the potential of GFE, and more importantly how to avoid bad experiences with girls. These skills are absolutely necessary for p4p mongering world over, in any venue, be it a night club, or a strip club, or a place like River Palace used to be. While the observations you write about working girls are not untrue, you seem oblivious to the role a mongering man plays in shaping his own experiences, and paying only for what he wants. We are not the powerless victims you paint us as, at the mercy of experienced jaded 21 year olds. It's a ridiculous premise. Suffice it to say that you, as the monger, must always remain in control and reject, unless and until you are convinced by the girl that she is going to be nice with you. You must know how to be charming and nice so as to elicit such similar responses from the girl. But even after things seem good, if any signs of backsliding or downturn in her attitude occurs, terminate the laison, and never give money up front. If you don't have the perceptiveness to detect when a girl is of the hardened jaded type, or of the softer, more sweet personality that you can get a GFE with, you cannot be successful in p4p mongering, even in a regular nightclub.

That you don't believe I was successful in having GFE dates is unimportant to me. You are speaking from lack of knowledge, despite your years, of how to interview a p4p girl toward getting GFE dates. What's getting in your way are certain incorrect assumptions you are making about the type of girls available to meet in the strip club, as well as the type of interaction and conversation that is possible.

The interaction dynamics in each venue are different and make for different types of interactions. Take, For example, a venue like a street corner where you might meet a WG who is a streetwalker. The normal expected conversation between the monger and the streetwalker is limited to prices and services. A question about how many brothers or sisters the streetwalker has, or whether she attends university and what her studies or life goals are, would be entirely out of character and would be regarded as weird. The streetwalker WG has no time or interest in that. Just wham, bam, give me the money and out, a quickie suck and fuck and that's it.

In the River Palace nightclub, there were no girls there who weren't working. So every girl was there for the sole purpose of picking up a guy to take them home and fuck for money. Therefore, the likely first words out of a girl's mouth to you upon approach was a number, like $400 or $300. Not much of a conversation starter. These girls were focussed and wanted to get down to business right away. So the conversation was about money and services and then you were under pressure for a decision. And if you wanted more conversation, the girl feared you were wasting her time and she could grab another customer. It was not a mongering environment that was conducive to getting to know the girl and the pressure didn't make it easy to figure out if she was a cheat and bad experience, or she would be GFE. But you didn't have to cave in immediately, and you could play the dance where you drink and circulate and maybe talk to her again later and see if she would come down in price. So sometimes you could have some conversation and joke around and get a bit of a vibe going with the girl, which added to the GFE potential.

In a regular nightclub, I would always approach the conversation with a girl, even if I was pretty sure she was a WG, as if she was a normal freebie girl. And be my usual friendly, charming, humorous self, and try to chat with her. Generally she would follow that lead, until she wanted to mention money. But at least it could start off with some semblance of a normal conversation and interaction. And I could buy her a drink and talk some more, trying to get a sense of her personality.

Inside a strip club, if you call a girl over to sit at your table, it is initially just to enjoy her company and conversation, and nothing more is expected or implied. She sits down and a friendly conversation ensues where you try to charm her and she responds to you. If you like her, you can buy her a drink. It's up to you, and not pushed or solicited. The conversation goes where you take it. The humor or laughs you enjoy with the girl are of your own making, just as in a conversation with a freebie. Until this point, no one has mentioned what's in the back of your mind. Sex. The girl never mentions it. Any invitation will ultimately have to come from you. If you really like the girl, you can take her for a private dance and see how the chemistry is between you, and how she responds to any advances you may make. Still no mention of any Take out by the girl. It has to come from the man. And often the girl will say no, because she doesn't have to go out with you. So it turns out that the only tools these girls can use to get you to want them and invite them out with you, aside from their beauty, are the entirely passive tools of their niceness and responsiveness to you when you speak with them and give them attention, and how much they can get you to like them by behaving sweetly to you. If they don't want you, they will not make the effort to seduce you. Add to this the fact that the strip clubs are constantly recruiting new girls straight out of the universities, girls who just came from the provinces, and are for the most part unspoiled by years of sex work. The result of the foregoing parameters is that it is actually easier to spend a long while getting to know a girl and speaking with her on all manner of topics and to cultivate a GFE date with a p4p girl in the strip club, where there is no pressure to take the girl home, and you can simply talk with her as much as you want and / or private dance also, and then leave without even discussing take out. The strip club was the easiest venue to take my time in picking and getting to thoroughly know girls before I had to choose if they would be GFE dates.

I also want to say that your very idea that one of the existing venues for P4p in Kiev should be discriminated against by persons such as yourself to the point that you don't want to permit even it's mere mention in the context of a factual discussion, to be offensive to the concept of truth and democratic principles.

The only connection I have with Rio strip club is that of frequent customer. On each of my trips to Kiev in 2011, I went to that club and reported on my experiences there. My reasons for choosing to monger in that venue after the demise of River Palace toward the end of 2010 rather than the regular nightclubs are set forth at length elsewhere (lower prices and greater time efficiency in getting high level WG's) and need not be repeated here. You are an intelligent enough guy to know how to read my prior posts if you were interested to know what I thought. I tried the regular nightclubs as a first and most natural replacement of the River Palace during trips I made at the end of 2010 and the beginning of 2011, but the results were unsatisfactory. The prices were too high, and no one had any idea where the fuck all the girls who used to go to the River Palace were going since it was towed away. Of course, I had a bunch of numbers of girls from River Palace, and I experimented a lot with mamba. Ru and top-modals. Com, and was still enjoying Kiev each visit. But I didn't succeed in getting to the very high level beauties again until I hit on Rio strip club and found out that they had take out. And I reported about my experiences here on this thread. It appears that recently reports on this thread in 2012 began to be posted about lower prices ($200 and lower) being available in the regular nightclubs like in the days of the River Palace. And I intend to check this out thoroughly when I return to Kiev in September / October.

For me, the issue is, and has always been, getting to high level hotties for a reasonable price and within a reasonable amount of time expended within the context of a short visit of 3 or 4 nights. I'm not interested in a methodology that has a risk of resulting in me going home without a very beautiful girl in my bed on any of those few precious nights, so the "thrill of the chase" is not as important to me on such a short trip, whereas guaranteed scoring with a hottie is. Therefore, I am looking for p4p, not freebies.

[QUOTE=Prosal;1281535]Right, but as Pedro rightly said to overdo is as bad as dressing too low. Best is to look fashionable and refined, but not obsessed with it. That is why IMO intentionally wearing a suit in a club is ludicrous. We're not in the 90s anymore. Now a sex-weaned foreigner who dress like a "biznessman" solely with the intention to impress is rather a subject of mockery.[/QUOTE]

Right, which is what I meant by suggesting that wearing Armani was ridiculous. You can make an argument for anything in life to be done in moderation and be correct. Its easy and safe to do and always makes one sound intelligent. The only people I have seen who were dressed as you described were Turkish men here in Minsk. Their brown leather blazers always make me shake my head. Dreadful. Other than that I am happy to say I never met or seen anyone as you have described during my travels, so far, anyway.

[QUOTE=PedroToronja;1281652]. A Uki girl told me that her friends, who saw us walking together to the Opera House, were very impressed by her companion (me) because 'the guy' had an expensive hair cut and good shoes. Ukrainian and Russian men basically cut their hair very short in some cheap salon or at home, no shape, no style, just short and all the same non-style style.[/QUOTE]Wearing with style and refinement is more effective in winter. You can sharpen your dressing style with nice gloves, scarfs, coats, ect. I bought in winter 2011 a somptuous Zilli black mink and black cashmere coat that allowed me VERY lofty scores. At 4500€, a big investment, but definitely worth it.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D;1281682]Versace has seemed to supplanted Armani in the top of the Italian name heap.[/QUOTE]You're wrong. The Versace men collection is of poor quality and rather dated. As Pedro said, Brioni, Kiton and Zegna are the top. I'd add Pal Zileri sartoriale to the list.

This thread has really degenerated into some silly never ending clothes show commentary. Recently . Ridiculous! These sad lonely guys must spend hours writing these extensive posts. Most of us here just want info. On. Where to go, how much to pay, and other's factual and practical experiences in the sack. Not whether pleats on the trousers are in fashion! Cut it out guys and get back to the serious business of sex hunting.

[QUOTE=Limarian;1281851]Most of us here just want info. On. Where to go, how much to pay, and other's factual and practical experiences in the sack.[/QUOTE]Most of all is not all of us. Some guys here are not harcore mongers (as you are from what I can decipher from your posts) and are much more into the freebie scene. In this respect, discussing about the best weapons to score (dressing style is one of them) has a sense.

If you don't like a topic, simply skip it, no need to be dogmatic and offensive.

[QUOTE=Jojosun; 1281675]I am going to order made to measure expensive Silk Briefs for myself, so I can preside over the ceremony of the Grand Openings of my Envelops, each enclosing US$100 crisp notes, just as crisp as my briefs.

And if the US$$$ don't impress the Mamba Girls, My Silk Briefs will.[/QUOTE]And should I head down south to Crimea, where there are a lot of lovely looking Tatar Muslim girls, related to their cousins in FSU Asian Republics including Uzbekistan, I might invest in an Expensive Made 2 measure Turban. Then I will be a Real Head Turner There.

[QUOTE=Limarian;1281851]This thread has really degenerated into some silly never ending clothes show commentary. Recently . Ridiculous! These sad lonely guys must spend hours writing these extensive posts. Most of us here just want info. On. Where to go, how much to pay, and other's factual and practical experiences in the sack. Not whether pleats on the trousers are in fashion! Cut it out guys and get back to the serious business of sex hunting.[/QUOTE]And a lot of the This Bollocks about Fashion Tips are coming from someone, who posted here, that he only stopped In Kiev and doesn't like it,"because its too Glam ".

Now I understand why (Hunter Dave) is staying away from this Fashionistas input.

Hunter where are you?

[QUOTE=Limarian;1281851]This thread has really degenerated into some silly never ending clothes show commentary. Recently . Ridiculous! These sad lonely guys must spend hours writing these extensive posts. Most of us here just want info. On. Where to go, how much to pay, and other's factual and practical experiences in the sack. Not whether pleats on the trousers are in fashion! Cut it out guys and get back to the serious business of sex hunting.[/QUOTE]I go to Kiev on long weekends Thursdays to Mondays, and only take hand Luggage with me.

I wear there what I like to wear. Never had any problem getting into Clubs, or with Girls.

And if a girl has a problem with what I wear, then she can go and Fuck herself, because. I am the one with the Money that she needs.

Simple as that.

[QUOTE=Limarian;1281851]This thread has really degenerated into some silly never ending clothes show commentary. Recently . Ridiculous! These sad lonely guys must spend hours writing these extensive posts.[/QUOTE]Yeah makes you wonder how they get the time to write all these long Fashion reports? . I have yet to read a Sex Report on Kiev, being the fruit of all this dressing up.

Unless like I suspect, posted by Keyboard Virtual Mongers.

[QUOTE=PedroToronja;1281648]Fully agree with Prosal. BTW, drop Armani. Brioni, Kiton, Stefano Ricci, Loro Piana, perhaps a Zegna. Aim higher my friend.[/QUOTE]Get an Expensive Turban & Head south to Crimea. The first lovely Tatar girl from there I met her in Kiev, through an ad in Kiev Post. Her name was Leela.

And if you don't score there, your Turban will be very handy 4 you, if you go To Tashkent.

Just aim Higher & Keep the Turban on your Head.

Limarian,

Thank you for your note, I tend to agree with your sentiments here although based on past readings, I am willing to consider everything Cruiser states carefully- He is a VERY experienced monger! Unfortunately, I have not heard from the massage lady even though I know she is receiving my messages. Will be in Kiev 19-24.

Cheers,

[QUOTE=Limarian;1281851]This thread has really degenerated into some silly never ending clothes show commentary. Recently . Ridiculous! These sad lonely guys must spend hours writing these extensive posts. Most of us here just want info. On. Where to go, how much to pay, and other's factual and practical experiences in the sack. Not whether pleats on the trousers are in fashion! Cut it out guys and get back to the serious business of sex hunting.[/QUOTE]Perhaps a new thread should be started on fashion and how to dress in FSU?

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1273686]In regards to freebies, I would recommend to forget the canned crap about "game and a little cash". The reality is more like "tons of time and piles of dough". Its all about you presenting yourself as a secure man and your ability to cross paths with needy girls.[/QUOTE]I second this.

Kiev is a place where you'll find your money burns fast, half the time you don't even know where it went.

It does appear to pursue freebies one might need "tons of time and piles of dough." Well said, Climaxnow.

[QUOTE=Limarian;1281851]This thread has really degenerated into some silly never ending clothes show commentary. Recently . Ridiculous! These sad lonely guys must spend hours writing these extensive posts. Most of us here just want info. On. Where to go, how much to pay, and other's factual and practical experiences in the sack. Not whether pleats on the trousers are in fashion! Cut it out guys and get back to the serious business of sex hunting.[/QUOTE]How can it be ridiculous?

Eye for details makes perfect! And fashion is for sure one of the small brisk in successful hunting. I am sure I would not had same success if I did not dress nice and care how I look. Even money counts in the end.

There is endless post of where to go, how much to pay in Kiev. And in this city you don't need even to pay, that's for sure. So yes this discussion is relevant for sex hungry mongers.

Sorry, but no offense. Her face looks really weird in the pic. Nice body though.

[QUOTE=Barba; 1281315]Anyone with experience from this girl? Told me she is not into P4P when we had lunch. I need to qualify with time. Model that just turned 18. I checked her passport. PM if you know her but do not wish to take it here.

B.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cruiser D; 1280764]Ukraine is a nation of daddy's girls (those who have a good real daddy or those completely without one) and baby likes daddy in a suit. .

A man in a suit is a serious man, know who your targeted audience is.

What 'rules' are you breaking when you are 40+ and macking 20 year olds at a nightclub anyway?[/QUOTE]Cruise, I only have to ageee with your point. Been away from Ukranian forum for a while, I have spent some precious minutes trying to track down the beginning of this conversation about shoes, ties, etc. OMG, this has got a little comic, but I will try to add my two cents.

I personally pity fashion victims, BOTH men or women, BUT If you want to impress the silly but gorgeous want to-be-model who is probably looking for the next oligarch-alike sugar daddy and a 5000€ monthly sponsorship, then maybe most of Prosal's advise and some of Pedro's (about being fashionable, Zegna not enough, etc, etc.) could be your thing. But, in my HUMBLE opinion, this is simply silly.

Prosal, you can't imagine yourself in a suit inside a club, and this is respectful, of course, but I don't imagine MOST of us, late thirties, early forties, OR OLDER, dressing a CUSTO Barcelona t-shirt (some of them at 300 or 400€ a piece) in some club. No matter how cool or fashionable this could be. I am with Cruiser. If you are well groomed, and self-confident, any NICE clothes would do the trick. The ladies want to smell power, resources (as someone else said today) , GOOD TASTE (some smart ass said once that fashion is something so hedious that they are forced to changed it every year.) , and in general, they want to find a guy who is successful. At this point, anyone can understand this term as it better suits him, but if you feel comfortable in a nice suit and tie, you look in the mirror and you are quite happy with what you see (whatever D&G, Versace or something more affordable) you will do just fine.

In ANY of the glamorous elite clubs in Moscow or Kiev, you will see A LOT of men in suits and ties, very few of them tourists and I sincerely doubt that (judging by the babes next to them) nobody consider them "clowns". For those of you with little or NO local experience, and hungry for practical stuff, here one simple piece of data. The "this clothes look nice enough and they are comfy" will kill most of your chances unless you have some other serious gaming skills. The girls take VERY seriously the dress-up for a club night. And they expect that the man don't wear in the club the same kind of clothes that he would wear to watch some hockey game, or to go to the cinema some Sunday afternoon. You love those comfy snickers (no matter how "fashionable" or expensive they are)? Ok, but chances are that you will be "face-controlled" in most of elite clubs, and even if you get yourself in, most of the girls would cut you off just by looking at your feet.

Good hunt!

Salud,

SF.

[QUOTE=Spanish Fly;1281997]Prosal, you can't imagine yourself in a suit inside a club, and this is respectful, of course, but I don't imagine MOST of us, late thirties, early forties, OR OLDER, dressing a CUSTO Barcelona t-shirt (some of them at 300 or 400€ a piece) in some club. No matter how cool or fashionable this could be.[/QUOTE]Hum. What a strange statement. There is other ways to dress fashionably and elegantly without overdoing the primping, be it in suit or in clownesque metrosexual shit.

[QUOTE=Harry Hardman;1281960]Perhaps a new thread should be started on fashion and how to dress in FSU?[/QUOTE]I must agree with Mr. Hardman. I have been watching how this forum is evolving, and I'm impressed. Now we are not only having extensive discussion about masculine fashion, style, firms, prices, shopping. Hairdressers, we even publish photos of men (dressed, luckily). The 1st time I saw this in this web! I know Slavic women are vocational fashion victims, but this is. Impressing. Definitely I'm becoming outdated.)

By the way, I have just arrived to Kiev, without any time to arrange things. So if nobody is so kind to provide us / me with a good alternative strip-club to the unmentionable one, I'll have no option but to visit it.

It's quite hot here, and very rainy, so very humid.

[QUOTE=Jojosun;1281881]Yeah makes you wonder how they get the time to write all these long Fashion reports? . I have yet to read a Sex Report on Kiev, being the fruit of all this dressing up.[/QUOTE]For an actual sex report, Jojo, you will have to go to a separate thread, being created by the Administrator. LOL.

[QUOTE=Prosal;1281840]I bought in winter 2011 a somptuous Zilli black mink and black cashmere coat that allowed me VERY lofty scores. At 4500€, a big investment, but definitely worth it.[/QUOTE].

And Hello Flash Harry.

Rest in peace Za Za Gabor.

I can't stand pretentious people. I mean, what is the point in applying exorbitantly extensive vocabulary, it is just straightforwardly unnecessary

[QUOTE=Harry Hardman;1281507]I hate to tell you all this: Racism is alive and well in Ukraine. Haven't you heard about? : a black guy from USA embassy jogging around town was harassed and beaten up by the Kiev police. And a Korean guy was killed in Kharkov?[/QUOTE]Racism is alive and well anywhere you go on this planet. Listen, even a fish in a barrel type place like Pattaya or Bangkok has racism with the local girls. I have witness it first hand myself. I do not expect in the Ukraine to be any different. I know that there are idiots that you go in this world. With that said, I am trying to measure as to what degree is the racism. Is it as bad as some part in the deep South in the 1960's? Or is the racism like Latin America where it does exist, but very midly like in Dominican Republic.

That is all that I was trying to see.

El Cubanito

[QUOTE=Spanish Fly; 1281997]Cruise, I only have to ageee with your point. Been away from Ukranian forum for a while, I have spent some precious minutes trying to track down the beginning of this conversation about shoes, ties, etc. OMG, this has got a little comic, but I will try to add my two cents.

I personally pity fashion victims, BOTH men or women, BUT If you want to impress the silly but gorgeous want to-be-model who is probably looking for the next oligarch-alike sugar daddy and a 5000€ monthly sponsorship, then maybe most of Prosal's advise and some of Pedro's (about being fashionable, Zegna not enough, etc, etc.) could be your thing. But, in my HUMBLE opinion, this is simply silly.

Prosal, you can't imagine yourself in a suit inside a club, and this is respectful, of course, but I don't imagine MOST of us, late thirties, early forties, OR OLDER, dressing a CUSTO Barcelona t-shirt (some of them at 300 or 400€ a piece) in some club. No matter how cool or fashionable this could be. I am with Cruiser. If you are well groomed, and self-confident, any NICE clothes would do the trick. The ladies want to smell power, resources (as someone else said today) , GOOD TASTE (some smart ass said once that fashion is something so hedious that they are forced to changed it every year.) , and in general, they want to find a guy who is successful. At this point, anyone can understand this term as it better suits him, but if you feel comfortable in a nice suit and tie, you look in the mirror and you are quite happy with what you see (whatever D&G, Versace or something more affordable) you will do just fine.

In ANY of the glamorous elite clubs in Moscow or Kiev, you will see A LOT of men in suits and ties, very few of them tourists and I sincerely doubt that (judging by the babes next to them) nobody consider them "clowns". For those of you with little or NO local experience, and hungry for practical stuff, here one simple piece of data. The "this clothes look nice enough and they are comfy" will kill most of your chances unless you have some other serious gaming skills. The girls take VERY seriously the dress-up for a club night. And they expect that the man don't wear in the club the same kind of clothes that he would wear to watch some hockey game, or to go to the cinema some Sunday afternoon. You love those comfy snickers (no matter how "fashionable" or expensive they are)? Ok, but chances are that you will be "face-controlled" in most of elite clubs, and even if you get yourself in, most of the girls would cut you off just by looking at your feet.

Good hunt!

Salud,

SF.[/QUOTE]You can have all of the money in the world, but if the player does not know how to play the game he will be $h! T out of luck. I have a childhood friend who is a Carbon copy look alike of actor Kevin Bacon. My buddy has gotten more ass, than a public toilet seat on 42nd street in New York City. My buddy has tremendous amount of game and he never pays for it. I have a little bit of game, but I am nowhere near his level of play. That is really the bottom line what is your game like. I am sure that my game will be good enough to have a great time and that is all that I am looking for. I just ask the clothes question because this is new waters for me and I have never been to this part of the world. But now I know and I will play the game that is shown to me.

Thank you for everything guys, but stop this clothes stuff already.

El Cubanito

RIO Girls. $300/3 hours bullshit.

other costs:
100 grivna cover
At least 100 grivna tip for managers and admin
100 grivna for taxi
If you want to get 3-4 private dances to see the dancers pussy. Every private dance is 200 givna
Drinks- I would say at around 400 grivna every visit- if dancers sit with you add extra- they will order drinks and cigs.

So far I would say every dancer you take home will cost you over $400.

The dancer probably will not stay with you for 3 hours and she may not give you BBBJ.

If you are super stupid and travel all the way from America to Kiev for RIO don't forget to add the cost of tickets, apartment, and food.

I would say every dancer will cost you over $500 for less than 2 hours and probably just covered BJ.

So don't be fooled by the fucking shill who keeps saying 3 hours for $300, its bullshit

[QUOTE=Prosal;1281840]I bought in winter 2011 a somptuous Zilli black mink and black cashmere coat that allowed me VERY lofty scores. At 4500€, a big investment, but definitely worth it.[/QUOTE]Prosal,

You had VERY Lofty Scores with your 4500euros Mink Coat, and I suppose the Coat Checkers at clubs got Fuck all.

Think of all the tips you saved, when you sat there with your coat on surrounded by hordes of girls all over you.

My Friend, its the same The World Over, its the Rich who get the Pleasure, and its The Poor who end up with F All.

Actually in the FSU it is an important part of your game. So it does need to be covered a bit, not quite to the depth some are taking it.

Prosal, Zenga just happens to be the current trendoid brand. I own suits from Armani, Zenga and Versace and the quality (high) and price are about the same. If you want to be a marketing tool, feel free to, I am sure you are reading this posting on your iPad or iPhone. If your game is waiting to blurt out Zenga or whatever brand has paid the most PR money when one girl out of 500 asks you what brand your suit is, go for it.

When I was younger I would occasional wear club fashions in a club. I don't do that anymore. I remember a long time ago Dr Skank posted something to the effect of 'watching a G Unit wearing 50 year old with the vodka sweats doing the Robot' in a club in Moscow. Not a pretty sight.

[QUOTE=Limarian;1281851]This thread has really degenerated into some silly never ending clothes show commentary. Recently . Ridiculous! These sad lonely guys must spend hours writing these extensive posts. Most of us here just want info. On. Where to go, how much to pay, and other's factual and practical experiences in the sack. Not whether pleats on the trousers are in fashion! Cut it out guys and get back to the serious business of sex hunting.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cruiser D;1282220]Actually in the FSU it is an important part of your game. So it does need to be covered a bit, not quite to the depth some are taking it.[/QUOTE]Ok, my bad, even if the matter of dressing style is of prime importance in FSU (at least to chase freebies, but chasing freebies isn't what FSU is all about?) , admittedly I have let myself be led to useless and rather futile points.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D;1282220]Zenga[/QUOTE]Is Zenga the Chinese-made version of Zegna BTW? (wink)

[QUOTE=Muddy7; 1282182]RIO Girls. $300/3 hours bullshit.

Other costs:

100 grivna cover.

At least 100 grivna tip for managers and admin.

100 grivna for taxi.

If you want to get 3-4 private dances to see the dancers pussy. Every private dance is 200 givna.

Drinks- I would say at around 400 grivna every visit- if dancers sit with you add extra- they will order drinks and cigs.

So far I would say every dancer you take home will cost you over $400.

The dancer probably will not stay with you for 3 hours and she may not give you BBBJ.

If you are super stupid and travel all the way from America to Kiev for RIO don't forget to add the cost of tickets, apartment, and food.

I would say every dancer will cost you over $500 for less than 2 hours and probably just covered BJ.

So don't be fooled by the fucking shill who keeps saying 3 hours for $300, its bullshit[/QUOTE]Completely agree but don't know the shill thing. At least, he doesn't sound like one.

Apartment (nice and around Kreschatyk) and food (If you want half-way decent food and don't cook them yourself) can be significant, apart from travel related expenses. I think that's why people who wanted to minimize those costs and maximize their hits with young girls went to RIO or other related venues. Mongers have to pay these fixed costs everyday they are there whether they get a decent lay or not, or whether they bring a girl to the apartment or not.

If you ask me, it sounds terrible when a black American who works at the USA embassy in Kiev got beaten up by local cops while jogging on the street. Don't forget the Korean guy got killed in Kharkov.

[QUOTE=El Cubanito; 1282071]Racism is alive and well anywhere you go on this planet. Listen, even a fish in a barrel type place like Pattaya or Bangkok has racism with the local girls. I have witness it first hand myself. I do not expect in the Ukraine to be any different. I know that there are idiots that you go in this world. With that said, I am trying to measure as to what degree is the racism. Is it as bad as some part in the deep South in the 1960's? Or is the racism like Latin America where it does exist, but very midly like in Dominican Republic.

That is all that I was trying to see.

El Cubanito[/QUOTE]

It's quite funny to follow posts here because everyone has his own opinion about spending time in Kiev and what girls to be hunted for. Why don't you stop it and pay more attention to facts than to opinions. I won't write again about Rio, just one last sentence: If you want a nice and "clean" nice girl, you don't have much time driving from club to club, don't speak Russian and you don't pay much attention to money, Rio is good. All other opinions here are totally right as well if you look for something different. Of course you have to choose very well the girl you take out and like always, if you don't take out a 9 or 10 the chances increase that she stays longer than 3 hrs. It's up to you and your attitude.

I was 6 days in Kiev and got a driver for USD 15 / hour to check out some clubs (most of them I know already)!

Deluxe: Great Club, beautiful girls, but not all of them you can take home, even the ones are professional sometimes don't go with foreigners, may be because they don't speak English or waiting for a Russian Billionaire.

Buddha Bar: Stylish Bar / restaurant like in every other country. Some Professionals at the bar, some nice some average ones. On Friday night at around midnight not much. Lots of tourists.

Vodka Bar: Worst experience in my life! Shitty club in the basement of a mall. Lots of young people and almost all drunken. Easy to pick up some drunken young girls but I didn't have a good feeling there (around 4:00 am). No good attitude there.

Shooters: walked in and out right after it. Not my style.

Mafia on Kreshatik: Had dinner there with a friend (around 11:00 pm). Already empty but great to watch girls walking by on the boardwalk and some pretty ones in the Restaurant. As always some look at you and you know why and some don't pay attention at all.

Avalon: I was there twice upstairs in the Karaoke bar and downstairs at the lounge. Nice women and nice atmosphere.

Rio:. I talked too much about it.

Club Dolls: Brand new Club on Red Army street. Nice new strip club with very good atmosphere but when we were there not too much girls. Some nice ones, some average. May be 25 girls. Prices almost same like Rio. My friend told me on another day it was more crowded.

Strip Club Paradise: on Left bank, same owner as Rio. Redneck area with just a few girls. Some nice, some not. Not worth going the long way.

Mandarin Boat: They open on May 25th (hopefully) in Podol. Boat like in the past days River Palace Boat. Same owner as Rio.

McDonalds on Kreshatik: well. Look at other posts here. Same opinion.

May be I forgot some clubs and of course there are some more I didn't visit.

Sorry for not writing more about it but I'm not like liljoy.

I can only give one advice from my side about being in Kiev. Behave like you are! You can be friendly, smile a lot, be a Gentleman and don't be arrogant. Dress nice but not too much. If you are natural and more like an average man with good behavior, you will have a lot of phone numbers and a lot of dates. But you need time for this as this is not for a one night F. If you just want to go there for F, go to a (strip) club and take a girl (if you have money) or go to Shooters, Vodka Bar or McDonalds at night if you don't have money. But it's work to get one. Of course this is a brief advice and my English is not so good.

[QUOTE=Harry Hardman; 1282234]Completely agree but don't know the shill thing. At least, he doesn't sound like one.[/QUOTE]I know its sometimes excessive posting about that venue, but I don't know about the Shill thing either.

I mean there must be much easier ways of making money, especially for someone who comes across as very intelectual with an extensive English vocabulary.

Anyways how much do Shills make, and does the venue evalute their Shilling to pay them?

Reading another post here, there is a mention of "Marketing Tool " for a certain fashion brand? . Wot 2 Shills lurking here, LOL?

[QUOTE=El Cubanito; 1282071]Racism is alive and well anywhere you go on this planet. Listen, even a fish in a barrel type place like Pattaya or Bangkok has racism with the local girls. I have witness it first hand myself. I do not expect in the Ukraine to be any different. I know that there are idiots that you go in this world. With that said, I am trying to measure as to what degree is the racism. Is it as bad as some part in the deep South in the 1960's? Or is the racism like Latin America where it does exist, but very midly like in Dominican Republic.

That is all that I was trying to see.

El Cubanito[/QUOTE]The only form of racism you will encounter in Kiev is Shooters club.

You don't need to worry about walking the streets at night either, especially in the centre. You will get harrasment from cops it's usually to get a bribe, not race related.

It's much worse in places like Moscow and St Petersburg

[QUOTE=Muddy7; 1282182]RIO Girls. $300/3 hours bullshit.

Other costs:

100 grivna cover.

At least 100 grivna tip for managers and admin.

100 grivna for taxi.

If you want to get 3-4 private dances to see the dancers pussy. Every private dance is 200 givna.

Drinks- I would say at around 400 grivna every visit- if dancers sit with you add extra- they will order drinks and cigs.

So far I would say every dancer you take home will cost you over $400.

The dancer probably will not stay with you for 3 hours and she may not give you BBBJ.

If you are super stupid and travel all the way from America to Kiev for RIO don't forget to add the cost of tickets, apartment, and food.

I would say every dancer will cost you over $500 for less than 2 hours and probably just covered BJ.

So don't be fooled by the fucking shill who keeps saying 3 hours for $300, its bullshit[/QUOTE].

Muddy. You forgot to add the cost of the Condoms, and for someone who is a Multi Climaxer and over even 2 hours with covered BJ, it pushes up the costs to even more than $500, LOL.

Hi there! I'll stay in this hotel in the end of may, any possibility to find girls inside?

Thanks! .

[QUOTE=El Cubanito; 1282071]Racism is alive and well anywhere you go on this planet. Listen, even a fish in a barrel type place like Pattaya or Bangkok has racism with the local girls. I have witness it first hand myself. I do not expect in the Ukraine to be any different. I know that there are idiots that you go in this world. With that said, I am trying to measure as to what degree is the racism. Is it as bad as some part in the deep South in the 1960's? Or is the racism like Latin America where it does exist, but very midly like in Dominican Republic.

That is all that I was trying to see.

El Cubanito[/QUOTE]Hi El Cubanito,

I am not white, in fact from what you say we probably have similar skin tone. I have been to many places in Eastern Europe, although admittedly not Russia or Ukraine. From what I have heard on the news, I would not be totally comfortable travelling on my own in Russia and not sticking to safe central tourist areas.

But I have read earlier in this forum that Ukraine is very safe, I have been to small villages in the east of Poland and that is safe for someone like me. So I would not be overtly worried.

I do think that based on my experiences that you will have an advantage with many women in Ukraine, so I am curious to see how this works out.

Once when I was drinking with a friend in Slovakia, a girl and an guy joined us at our table. After 20 minutes the girl asked me to show her my dick and earlier on she kept asking where I was from.

[QUOTE=Tatoosun; 1282324]Hi there! I'll stay in this hotel in the end of may, any possibility to find girls inside?

Thanks![/QUOTE]Hard core prostitues.

[QUOTE=Prosal;1282225]Ok, my bad, even if the matter of dressing style is of prime importance in FSU (at least to chase freebies, but chasing freebies isn't what FSU is all about?) , admittedly I have let myself be led to useless and rather futile points.[/QUOTE]Now we are talking on the right track.

Your english is great bud. Better than some of my fellow americans.

Now, I've never sat foot in Ukraine or the "Eastern-block" but when you say "clubs" what kind of clubs are these? Other than the ones you specifically say "strip clubs" what are the other ones? Are they just regular dance clubs or what they refer to in Europe as "disco / discoteck"?

I have about 60 days vacation and I am playing to go to Moldova. I am doing my best to learn as much Russian as I can but that being said, what would you say the percentage of the "REGULAR" girls in Kiev and other smaller towns in the Ukraine that speak english?

And do you have experience in the smaller towns? I always prefer the smaller towns, that's where you find great GFEs!

Again, good report.

[QUOTE=Kirch; 1282241]It's quite funny to follow posts here because everyone has his own opinion about spending time in Kiev and what girls to be hunted for. Why don't you stop it and pay more attention to facts than to opinions. I won't write again about Rio, just one last sentence: If you want a nice and "clean" nice girl, you don't have much time driving from club to club, don't speak Russian and you don't pay much attention to money, Rio is good. All other opinions here are totally right as well if you look for something different. Of course you have to choose very well the girl you take out and like always, if you don't take out a 9 or 10 the chances increase that she stays longer than 3 hrs. It's up to you and your attitude.

I was 6 days in Kiev and got a driver for USD 15 / hour to check out some clubs (most of them I know already)!

Deluxe: Great Club, beautiful girls, but not all of them you can take home, even the ones are professional sometimes don't go with foreigners, may be because they don't speak English or waiting for a Russian Billionaire.

Buddha Bar: Stylish Bar / restaurant like in every other country. Some Professionals at the bar, some nice some average ones. On Friday night at around midnight not much. Lots of tourists.

Vodka Bar: Worst experience in my life! Shitty club in the basement of a mall. Lots of young people and almost all drunken. Easy to pick up some drunken young girls but I didn't have a good feeling there (around 4:00 am). No good attitude there.

Shooters: walked in and out right after it. Not my style.

Mafia on Kreshatik: Had dinner there with a friend (around 11:00 pm). Already empty but great to watch girls walking by on the boardwalk and some pretty ones in the Restaurant. As always some look at you and you know why and some don't pay attention at all.

Avalon: I was there twice upstairs in the Karaoke bar and downstairs at the lounge. Nice women and nice atmosphere.

Rio:. I talked too much about it.

Club Dolls: Brand new Club on Red Army street. Nice new strip club with very good atmosphere but when we were there not too much girls. Some nice ones, some average. May be 25 girls. Prices almost same like Rio. My friend told me on another day it was more crowded.

Strip Club Paradise: on Left bank, same owner as Rio. Redneck area with just a few girls. Some nice, some not. Not worth going the long way.

Mandarin Boat: They open on May 25th (hopefully) in Podol. Boat like in the past days River Palace Boat. Same owner as Rio.

McDonalds on Kreshatik: well. Look at other posts here. Same opinion.

May be I forgot some clubs and of course there are some more I didn't visit.

Sorry for not writing more about it but I'm not like liljoy.

I can only give one advice from my side about being in Kiev. Behave like you are! You can be friendly, smile a lot, be a Gentleman and don't be arrogant. Dress nice but not too much. If you are natural and more like an average man with good behavior, you will have a lot of phone numbers and a lot of dates. But you need time for this as this is not for a one night F. If you just want to go there for F, go to a (strip) club and take a girl (if you have money) or go to Shooters, Vodka Bar or McDonalds at night if you don't have money. But it's work to get one. Of course this is a brief advice and my English is not so good.[/QUOTE]

Yes, there are girls in the lobby. Most former Soviet hotels have p2p girls.

[QUOTE=Tatoosun; 1282324]Hi there! I'll stay in this hotel in the end of may, any possibility to find girls inside?

Thanks! .[/QUOTE]Kirch, nice report.

[QUOTE=Muddy7; 1282182]RIO Girls. $300/3 hours bullshit.

Other costs:

100 grivna cover.

At least 100 grivna tip for managers and admin.

100 grivna for taxi.

If you want to get 3-4 private dances to see the dancers pussy. Every private dance is 200 givna.

Drinks- I would say at around 400 grivna every visit- if dancers sit with you add extra- they will order drinks and cigs.

So far I would say every dancer you take home will cost you over $400.

The dancer probably will not stay with you for 3 hours and she may not give you BBBJ.

If you are super stupid and travel all the way from America to Kiev for RIO don't forget to add the cost of tickets, apartment, and food.

I would say every dancer will cost you over $500 for less than 2 hours and probably just covered BJ.

So don't be fooled by the fucking shill who keeps saying 3 hours for $300, its bullshit[/QUOTE]Completely agree with you about the prices, if you are taking girl from Rio and you hasitate a little bit it will cost you minimum 400 $ for 2-3 hours. But man, be reasonable, you are smart enough to understand that lj is not a shill. And most of his comments about the girls are wright as I noticed, like most of yours were wright too. Agree that not worth to make all the way just for Rio, but Rio can be a good combination together with mamba and clubs.

[QUOTE=Kirch; 1282241]It's quite funny to follow posts here because everyone has his own opinion about spending time in Kiev and what girls to be hunted for. Why don't you stop it and pay more attention to facts than to opinions. I won't write again about Rio, just one last sentence: If you want a nice and "clean" nice girl, you don't have much time driving from club to club, don't speak Russian and you don't pay much attention to money, Rio is good. All other opinions here are totally right as well if you look for something different. Of course you have to choose very well the girl you take out and like always, if you don't take out a 9 or 10 the chances increase that she stays longer than 3 hrs. It's up to you and your attitude.

I was 6 days in Kiev and got a driver for USD 15 / hour to check out some clubs (most of them I know already)!

Deluxe: Great Club, beautiful girls, but not all of them you can take home, even the ones are professional sometimes don't go with foreigners, may be because they don't speak English or waiting for a Russian Billionaire.

Buddha Bar: Stylish Bar / restaurant like in every other country. Some Professionals at the bar, some nice some average ones. On Friday night at around midnight not much. Lots of tourists.

Vodka Bar: Worst experience in my life! Shitty club in the basement of a mall. Lots of young people and almost all drunken. Easy to pick up some drunken young girls but I didn't have a good feeling there (around 4:00 am). No good attitude there.

Shooters: walked in and out right after it. Not my style.

Mafia on Kreshatik: Had dinner there with a friend (around 11:00 pm). Already empty but great to watch girls walking by on the boardwalk and some pretty ones in the Restaurant. As always some look at you and you know why and some don't pay attention at all.

Avalon: I was there twice upstairs in the Karaoke bar and downstairs at the lounge. Nice women and nice atmosphere.

Rio:. I talked too much about it.

Club Dolls: Brand new Club on Red Army street. Nice new strip club with very good atmosphere but when we were there not too much girls. Some nice ones, some average. May be 25 girls. Prices almost same like Rio. My friend told me on another day it was more crowded.

Strip Club Paradise: on Left bank, same owner as Rio. Redneck area with just a few girls. Some nice, some not. Not worth going the long way.

Mandarin Boat: They open on May 25th (hopefully) in Podol. Boat like in the past days River Palace Boat. Same owner as Rio.

McDonalds on Kreshatik: well. Look at other posts here. Same opinion.

May be I forgot some clubs and of course there are some more I didn't visit.

Sorry for not writing more about it but I'm not like liljoy.

I can only give one advice from my side about being in Kiev. Behave like you are! You can be friendly, smile a lot, be a Gentleman and don't be arrogant. Dress nice but not too much. If you are natural and more like an average man with good behavior, you will have a lot of phone numbers and a lot of dates. But you need time for this as this is not for a one night F. If you just want to go there for F, go to a (strip) club and take a girl (if you have money) or go to Shooters, Vodka Bar or McDonalds at night if you don't have money. But it's work to get one. Of course this is a brief advice and my English is not so good.[/QUOTE]Nice report, but I noticed that you are scared to talk about Rio, not to get critisized. Kirch, you reports about Rio are also very nice, but pity you don't mention name of girls (as lj and muddy did, and me too) , their performances, what they allow and their attitude. It could help future visitors you know. Think about it and don't be afraid. There are a lot of people who like to read Lj comment, your and muddies too. But be more specific about girls names and their attitude. With respect, ronaldinjo

[QUOTE=BrasilSoccer0;1282425]I've never sat foot in Ukraine or the "Eastern-block" but when you say "clubs" what kind of clubs are these? Other than the ones you specifically say "strip clubs" what are the other ones? Are they just regular dance clubs or what they refer to in Europe as "disco / discoteck"?[/QUOTE]I personally find that the problem in Kiev is that nightlife is all about clubs (glam places where pretentiousness is at its most garish and that play mind-numbing techno). It lacks of a good DJ bars, I mean fun and "in" but unpretentious places mixing upscale and drinking hole under one roof, playing good Russian pop or dancable 90s hits, with drunk girls dancing on every elevated place that the place allows, amateur strip shows where inebriated sluts taken in the audience are ready to bare it all for a mug of mojito, ect. You mentionned Chisinau, which IMO is much better in this respect with GREAT places like Nostalgie, Militari, ect, but from my experience, if this is the kind of places you enjoy (as I do) , Russia is much better than Ukraine. Russians are IMO more "let go" and wilder when they party. I might be wrong though, as I am not a specialist of Kiev nightlife.

[QUOTE=Kirch; 1282241]It's quite funny to follow posts here because everyone has his own opinion about spending time in Kiev and what girls to be hunted for. Why don't you stop it and pay more attention to facts than to opinions. I won't write again about Rio, just one last sentence: If you want a nice and "clean" nice girl, you don't have much time driving from club to club, don't speak Russian and you don't pay much attention to money, Rio is good. All other opinions here are totally right as well if you look for something different. Of course you have to choose very well the girl you take out and like always, if you don't take out a 9 or 10 the chances increase that she stays longer than 3 hrs. It's up to you and your attitude.

I was 6 days in Kiev and got a driver for USD 15 / hour to check out some clubs (most of them I know already)!

Deluxe: Great Club, beautiful girls, but not all of them you can take home, even the ones are professional sometimes don't go with foreigners, may be because they don't speak English or waiting for a Russian Billionaire.

Buddha Bar: Stylish Bar / restaurant like in every other country. Some Professionals at the bar, some nice some average ones. On Friday night at around midnight not much. Lots of tourists.

Vodka Bar: Worst experience in my life! Shitty club in the basement of a mall. Lots of young people and almost all drunken. Easy to pick up some drunken young girls but I didn't have a good feeling there (around 4:00 am). No good attitude there.

Shooters: walked in and out right after it. Not my style.

Mafia on Kreshatik: Had dinner there with a friend (around 11:00 pm). Already empty but great to watch girls walking by on the boardwalk and some pretty ones in the Restaurant. As always some look at you and you know why and some don't pay attention at all.

Avalon: I was there twice upstairs in the Karaoke bar and downstairs at the lounge. Nice women and nice atmosphere.

Rio:. I talked too much about it.

Club Dolls: Brand new Club on Red Army street. Nice new strip club with very good atmosphere but when we were there not too much girls. Some nice ones, some average. May be 25 girls. Prices almost same like Rio. My friend told me on another day it was more crowded.

Strip Club Paradise: on Left bank, same owner as Rio. Redneck area with just a few girls. Some nice, some not. Not worth going the long way.

Mandarin Boat: They open on May 25th (hopefully) in Podol. Boat like in the past days River Palace Boat. Same owner as Rio.

McDonalds on Kreshatik: well. Look at other posts here. Same opinion.

May be I forgot some clubs and of course there are some more I didn't visit.

Sorry for not writing more about it but I'm not like liljoy.

I can only give one advice from my side about being in Kiev. Behave like you are! You can be friendly, smile a lot, be a Gentleman and don't be arrogant. Dress nice but not too much. If you are natural and more like an average man with good behavior, you will have a lot of phone numbers and a lot of dates. But you need time for this as this is not for a one night F. If you just want to go there for F, go to a (strip) club and take a girl (if you have money) or go to Shooters, Vodka Bar or McDonalds at night if you don't have money. But it's work to get one. Of course this is a brief advice and my English is not so good.[/QUOTE]Kirch, great, great report. You have given me a very good insight into Kiev. Thanks and I will return the favor when I come back in June.

[QUOTE=Muddy7; 1282182]RIO Girls. $300/3 hours bullshit.

Other costs:

100 grivna cover.

At least 100 grivna tip for managers and admin.

100 grivna for taxi.

If you want to get 3-4 private dances to see the dancers pussy. Every private dance is 200 givna.

Drinks- I would say at around 400 grivna every visit- if dancers sit with you add extra- they will order drinks and cigs.

So far I would say every dancer you take home will cost you over $400.

The dancer probably will not stay with you for 3 hours and she may not give you BBBJ.

If you are super stupid and travel all the way from America to Kiev for RIO don't forget to add the cost of tickets, apartment, and food.

I would say every dancer will cost you over $500 for less than 2 hours and probably just covered BJ.

So don't be fooled by the fucking shill who keeps saying 3 hours for $300, its bullshit[/QUOTE]Muddy, I have done some quick convertion of money and If I did my math right and base on a exchange of 8. 05 from Dollar to Grivna. Then a drink will cost you around $50 US Dollars? WOW! Isn't this kind of high?

Kirch, did you pay this kind of money when you were there in Rio? I do not want to make this a pissing contest. I just want to know if this data is real.

All of the other price as far as I can tell are reasonable and comparable to prices in New York.

Thank you Ronaldinjo. I wrote already why I don't mention the girl names at Rio. It's simple, They all stay longer than 3 hrs and some give more service. I don't want to get them into trouble. I hope you understand.

Cheers

[QUOTE=El Cubanito; 1282608]Muddy, I have done some quick convertion of money and If I did my math right and base on a exchange of 8. 05 from Dollar to Grivna. Then a drink will cost you around $50 US Dollars? WOW! Isn't this kind of high?

Kirch, did you pay this kind of money when you were there in Rio? I do not want to make this a pissing contest. I just want to know if this data is real.

All of the other price as far as I can tell are reasonable and comparable to prices in New York.[/QUOTE]Hi EC, don't be fooled into visiting Rio from the deceptive intel posted on this thread. Kirch is a creation of LJ to promote the club. As a matter of fact, here are all of the other LJ creations: Harry Hardman, Jack 2004, Poker Player, Limarian, Pedro Toronja, Ronaldninja.

Also, racism will not be an issue for you, assuming you are an older adult, behave yourself, and stay in city center. Do be careful of groups of young people on the Metro. Choose your position on a train carefully. You don't want to be sandwiched in between a group of punks.

As to your clothes and shoes, make sure they are new and fit you well. Good luck and please report back.

Thank you. You have 2 types of clubs. Strip Clubs like Rio, Velvet, Paradise, Club Dolls, Arena Cabaret, Solid Gold or Joss. Like the name says, first of all it's a strip club with girls dancing topless and private dances. Just a few offer as well that you can take the girls to your apartment or Hotel. These clubs are Rio, Paradise or Club Dolls. About the other ones I don't know. Average price is about USD 300 for 2-3 hrs.

On the other hand you have normal Bars / Clubs / Discotheques like Buddha Bar, Deluxe (my favorite) , Vodka Bar, Avalon or Shooters. You can find there professionals as well. Mostly they sit at the bar and of course most of the time you notice due to their looks.

Try to learn some nice words or sentences in Russian but the best way is to use an app or something my friends do. You talk the sentence you want to say in your language in the phone and then it's written in Russian on your IPhone or Samsung. Great but forgot the name. It's translate even F Words. Haha.

Like always the girls in the redneck areas are better than the spoiled ones in the city. I did not have experience with this in Ukraine but in Russia. It's hard work ending up sitting with a beautiful natural girl in a restaurant and nobody talks. Try it.

[QUOTE=BrasilSoccer0; 1282425]Your english is great bud. Better than some of my fellow americans.

Now, I've never sat foot in Ukraine or the "Eastern-block" but when you say "clubs" what kind of clubs are these? Other than the ones you specifically say "strip clubs" what are the other ones? Are they just regular dance clubs or what they refer to in Europe as "disco / discoteck"?

I have about 60 days vacation and I am playing to go to Moldova. I am doing my best to learn as much Russian as I can but that being said, what would you say the percentage of the "REGULAR" girls in Kiev and other smaller towns in the Ukraine that speak english?

And do you have experience in the smaller towns? I always prefer the smaller towns, that's where you find great GFEs!

Again, good report.[/QUOTE]

Thank you Climaxx for your nice words.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow; 1282623]Hi EC, don't be fooled into visiting Rio from the deceptive intel posted on this thread. Kirch is a creation of LJ to promote the club. As a matter of fact, here are all of the other LJ creations: Harry Hardman, Jack 2004, Poker Player, Limarian, Pedro Toronja, Ronaldninja.

Also, racism will not be an issue for you, assuming you are an older adult, behave yourself, and stay in city center. Do be careful of groups of young gopnick types on the Metro trains.

As to your clothes and shoes, make sure they are new and fit you well. Good luck and please report back.[/QUOTE]

Kirch. Help me out here. What is the general feeling about finding girls in McDonalds? Also, you speak about Kreshatik. What about the McDonalds at Independence Square?

[QUOTE=Kirch;1282241]McDonalds on Kreshatik: well. Look at other posts here. Same opinion.[/QUOTE]

Almost no experience with McDonalds. Have been a couple of times at around 4:00 or 5:00 am in the morning there on Kreshatik because I was hungry. Lots of girls hanging out there because they are hungry too. Almost every other one is drunken. So I guess it's easy to talk to them. Use the search engine and you will find more.

[QUOTE=Chill Bill;1282660]Kirch. Help me out here. What is the general feeling about finding girls in McDonalds? Also, you speak about Kreshatik. What about the McDonalds at Independence Square?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Kirch; 1282622]Thank you Ronaldinjo. I wrote already why I don't mention the girl names at Rio. It's simple, They all stay longer than 3 hrs and some give more service. I don't want to get them into trouble. I hope you understand.

Cheers[/QUOTE]I understand you Kirch, but please inform us at least about the girls you don't take home, there were some very nice girls in my last Rio trip, unfortunately most of them not for takeout. So if there is some change in their attitude please inform us, every information is usefull, for me, for Lj, and for every person that loves Kiev strip bars. With respect, Ronaldinjo

I am not a creation of anybody else. Just an independent old monger. Nothing to do with anybody else

[QUOTE=Chill Bill;1282660]Kirch. Help me out here. What is the general feeling about finding girls in McDonalds? Also, you speak about Kreshatik. What about the McDonalds at Independence Square?[/QUOTE]Just tell them you are McDad, and they can have you & get paid for it as well.

Also ask them, wether they want their Coke Shaken, or Stirred, LOL.

Same on Maidan, Independence Square.

BTW, I am not Kirch.

[QUOTE=Prosal;1282555]I personally find that the problem in Kiev is that nightlife is all about clubs (glam places where pretentiousness is at its most garish and that play mind-numbing techno). It lacks of a good DJ bars, I mean fun and "in" but unpretentious places mixing upscale and drinking hole under one roof, playing good Russian pop or dancable 90s hits, with drunk girls dancing on every elevated place that the place allows, amateur strip shows where inebriated sluts taken in the audience are ready to bare it all for a mug of mojito, ect. You mentionned Chisinau, which IMO is much better in this respect with GREAT places like Nostalgie, Militari, ect, but from my experience, if this is the kind of places you enjoy (as I do) , Russia is much better than Ukraine. Russians are IMO more "let go" and wilder when they party. I might be wrong though, as I am not a specialist of Kiev nightlife.[/QUOTE].

Prosal. Honestly I couldn't agree more with the above.

Don't laugh, I did Moscow in my teens, went there with Mom. I do recall very lively nights at the hotel where we stayed at. A huge building (Intourist Hotel?).

Also during intervals, at the Theatre. .

Very Wild lot, more Eastern than really Europeans, the Russians are.

Even during gap years being impoverished students, we used to head when in London, to a well known Russian Knees up place, called Borscht & Tears, in Knightsbridge London.

Its still going I believe, but havn't tried it yet.

Aussie girls are great for that kind of night as well. A good combination with English ladetts.

[QUOTE=Prosal;1282555]I personally find that the problem in Kiev is that nightlife is all about clubs (glam places where pretentiousness is at its most garish and that play mind-numbing techno). It lacks of a good DJ bars, I mean fun and "in" but unpretentious places mixing upscale and drinking hole under one roof, playing good Russian pop or dancable 90s hits, with drunk girls dancing on every elevated place that the place allows, amateur strip shows where inebriated sluts taken in the audience are ready to bare it all for a mug of mojito, ect. You mentionned Chisinau, which IMO is much better in this respect with GREAT places like Nostalgie, Militari, ect, but from my experience, if this is the kind of places you enjoy (as I do) , Russia is much better than Ukraine. Russians are IMO more "let go" and wilder when they party. I might be wrong though, as I am not a specialist of Kiev nightlife.[/QUOTE].

Prosal. Honestly I couldn't agree more with the above.

Don't laugh, I did Moscow in my teens, went there with Mom. I do recall very lively nights at the hotel where we stayed at. A huge building (Intourist Hotel?).

Also during intervals, at the Theatre. .

Very Wild lot, more Eastern than really Europeans, the Russians are.

Even during gap years being impoverished students, we used to head when in London, to a well known Russian Knees up place, called Borscht & Tears, in Knightsbridge London.

Its still going I believe, but havn't tried it yet last few years.

Aussie girls are great for that kind of night as well. A good combination with English ladetts.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow; 1282623]Hi EC, don't be fooled into visiting Rio from the deceptive intel posted on this thread. Kirch is a creation of LJ to promote the club. As a matter of fact, here are all of the other LJ creations: Harry Hardman, Jack 2004, Poker Player, Limarian, Pedro Toronja, Ronaldninja.

Also, racism will not be an issue for you, assuming you are an older adult, behave yourself, and stay in city center. Do be careful of groups of young people on the Metro. Choose your position on a train carefully. You don't want to be sandwiched in between a group of punks.

As to your clothes and shoes, make sure they are new and fit you well. Good luck and please report back.[/QUOTE]No offense but you sounded like a vengeful jilted wife of LJ. LOL.

All you guys, Jack 2004, Poker Player, Limarian, Pedro Toronja, Ronaldninja who are mentioned in the above post; please make your comments and set this crazy straight.

[QUOTE=Jojosun; 1282261]I know its sometimes excessive posting about that venue, but I don't know about the Shill thing either.

I mean there must be much easier ways of making money, especially for someone who comes across as very intelectual with an extensive English vocabulary.

Anyways how much do Shills make, and does the venue evalute their Shilling to pay them?

Reading another post here, there is a mention of "Marketing Tool " for a certain fashion brand? . Wot 2 Shills lurking here, LOL?[/QUOTE]I don't know. Maybe they get a free' beer holder' to look at the girls who are 6 to 7 and turn them into a 10. LOL.

Maybe if they do a really good job, they get a freebie hour given by the club or something.

[QUOTE=Harry Hardman; 1283031]No offense but you sounded like a vengeful jilted wife of LJ. LOL.

All you guys, Jack 2004, Poker Player, Limarian, Pedro Toronja, Ronaldninja who are mentioned in the above post; please make your comments and set this crazy straight.[/QUOTE]Please add Chill Bill to the list.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1283050]Please add Chill Bill to the list.[/QUOTE]Sure, buddy. It's done. Chill Bill, you are on the Sir Climaxnow's LJ Creation list.

[QUOTE=Harry Hardman; 1283031]No offense but you sounded like a vengeful jilted wife of LJ. LOL.

All you guys, Jack 2004, Poker Player, Limarian, Pedro Toronja, Ronaldninja who are mentioned in the above post; please make your comments and set this crazy straight.[/QUOTE]Harry, just as it's obvious to you, that Climaxnow's statements are "vengeful" and motivated by malice, having no regard for the actual truth, (the same can be said for the obviously malicious tone in Muddy7's statements as well) , so too can any other member who is a sensible person also figure it out.

There is no need to further respond in a misguided attempt to protect the integrity of the reliable information I posted in this thread, since it appears that the Administrator of this forum does not care, and continues to allow such rubbish to be posted on the thread.

So in that case I say, let the intelligent among the readership, who will see through the malicious attacks and false allegations of shilling, and will choose to read the informative reports I have posted over the last year until recently, let them read and be entertained, or gain insight from the reports and analysis. And let the people who will unfortunately be misguided, be misguided and be denied the benefit of the accurate information and analysis I took pains to post. If the Administrator of the forum doesn't really care about it that much, why should I care any longer?

This doesn't mean I won't continue to post. It just means that I'm not going to respond or reply to every stupidity that a malicious person decides to post. I will post when I have something to say or point out that benefits the newbies reading this forum, or that benefits those mongers like me who are looking for high quality p4p during a short trip.

There are essentially two completely different categories of mongers who both make their home on this forum. Those interested in chasing freebies. And those interested in P4P. The kinds of analysis and information that is helpful to each of these two distinct categories, is different for each. Freebies seekers have been discussing the appropriate style of dress to be able to snag the most beautiful high level glamour girls out of the clubs. These are not WG's, they are civilians and the hottest of the hot at the top of the female food chain. Hunting girls on that level is serious business. And because it is necessary for the hunter to understand what motivates his prey, the pundits involved in such games weigh in on how best to dress in such a pursuit. All the while, the guys who are interested in only p4p are reading those posts and rolling their eyes, thinking it is silly, because what's the difference what you wear, when the girl is going to have sex with you in exchange for the money you will be giving her. But those posts about fashion were not written for us p4p guys. They were written by freebie seeking guys for other freebie seekers. Let's just understand that we are two separate kinds of mongers, each with approaches best suited for the nature of the hunt, whether for freebies or for p4p, and we are sharing this thread. Of course, there are also guys who are cross-mongers, meaning they are chasing freebies and approach all girls on that basis, but if the girl turns out to be p4p and interested in money, then these guys can change gears in a flat second. When I go to a regular nightclub, I find it is best to approach all girls as if they are freebies, and let them bring up money, as I do not want the be slapped in public if I proposition the wrong girl. So even though I'm primarily geared up for p4p, I think it's advise able to take some care with how one dresses. I.

And if it turns out the girl is a freebie, then all the better.

LJ

I was just chatting with (one of) my girlfriend (s) , who is highly educated (Masters degree) and works for a large bank, which flies her across the country and beyond and supposedly gets paid well. Getting well paid has a different meaning in Ukr: about 2000 Hrivna per month!

How can they live on that?

Well, in FSU, during soviet times people were often given a place to live, for life, for free. When USSR broke up, only 20 years ago, people kept possession of these apartments. A lot of people with money bought apartments at the time from those who needed the money to eat, but most kept their apartments.

Now. 20 years later, many people still live rent free, sometimes in crowded conditions (but nothing like Asia) , or they rent out their apartments and live in a cheaper area. If they sell at the right time, they can do fairly well. I know of a girl who had her own place at the tender age or 25, when her grandmother sold her place at the right time, and was able to buy 2 places a couple of years later (one for herself and one for the grand-daughter). When grad-ma passes on, any time now, they will have another apartment to sell or rent.

This is an often forgotten source of wealth. In North America owning your own house or apartment is a goal of most people, a (formerly) achievable goal, if you worked hard and saved your money. Finally paying off that apartment / house, is huge step towards economic independence and eventual retirement. Once people stop paying rent or mortgage, they realize that they can actually live on very little money.

In a way this system makes people complacent in the FSU, specially women who have their own apartments, because they really have no reason to work too hard or seek career advancement. A few hundred Euros (or couple of thousand hrivna) will cover all their costs. It also makes it easier for men to leave their wives or even their pregnant wives, because they know the wife will at least have a place to live.

Anyway, all I am saying is that 300 Euros or dollars for some action, or whatever is being reported here, is a hell of a lot of money. And this is also the reason why perfectly beautiful 20 year old students are sometimes quite happy to do the deed for 50-100 USD.

Anyway, just a thought. Nothing that has not been said before.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1282623]Hi EC, don't be fooled into visiting Rio from the deceptive intel posted on this thread. Kirch is a creation of LJ to promote the club. As a matter of fact, here are all of the other LJ creations: Harry Hardman, Jack 2004, Poker Player, Limarian, Pedro Toronja, Ronaldninja.[/QUOTE]Thursday: The unmentionable strip-club was overcrowded, several cues to seat, every table and stool busy. Short of dancing staff, as many were seated with clients. Many Americans (North and South). The managers, waiters, and dancers running up and down. Perhaps 4 very beautiful girls, perhaps 4 ugly (of course just my taste).

Freebies: Not successful for the moment. The biggest challenge: to coordinate the different timetables.

Regarding to Climaxnow statement. May I ask anybody to explain me the difference between his posts and the ones form a troll?

[QUOTE=Climaxnow; 1282623]Hi EC, don't be fooled into visiting Rio from the deceptive intel posted on this thread. Kirch is a creation of LJ to promote the club. As a matter of fact, here are all of the other LJ creations: Harry Hardman, Jack 2004, Poker Player, Limarian, Pedro Toronja, Ronaldninja.[/QUOTE].

Well by now we have covered Kiev in depth, from Mamba to clubs, cafes, fashion.

All simple and straight forward.

I can't comment on the above, simply because I don't KNOW?

But, and a Big But, is the above, which begs the following Questions.

1. I am not techie by any means, but I thought that whoever is in charge of ISG, should be able to detect the location of the ISP of the various posters/

Does the poster need different Lap tops, Phones, ipads whatever to post, depending on which creation he is using.

2. Then the poster needs different email addresses doesn't He or she.

3Had a quick look ont the above usernames, and they are all senior members.

Did they get the senior status by buying it or by posting.

4. If LJ is what you say he is / then he must have written a different script for each one of his "Creations " Then. He needs a super memory, so he doesn't get caught out.

5. Liljoey as we know does exist. How do I Know.

A respected senior member here (The Knight actually met him in person at that well known club ). LJ also posted that he met Hunter Dave at Arena.

Well we all know that Hunter is an old hand Kiev Monger.

6. Say LJ is "Promoting or Shilling that place ", then so what?

I have been there few times, and there is no amount of shilling going to convince me to take out a girl from there for US$300. Simply, because its above my budget.

And secondly I don't live in a mongering shithole, that I need to splash out US$300.

Thirdly I go for short time anyway.

7. Anyone who goes to Kiev is smart enough to make up his own mind on what is suitable for his mongering needs. .

8 Suppose LJ is the "Shill " that some are calling him/

Then he is wasting his time doing it, for the following reasons.

A. Like I posted he comes across a Very Intellectual Guy, Very Polite, real indepth posts, Super Memroy, he could be a very good Ghost Writer, and the best Script writer for say a Film, Our Man in Kiev.

He can also be a very good actor, playing the various parts including the Portugese Latino Lingo, in Rolanldninja.

LJ, if I were you PAL, I would base myself in Hollywood, and not KIEV.

I for one would nominate you for the Oscars, for the Biggest Award in Taking The [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] out of the Frisky Mongers on the Kiev Thread. LOL.

Greetings from the best mongering Place in the world.

LONDON. Yes I am Shilling & Promoting London and Proud of it.

I owe it to this great city and its residnts for all the great times I had over the years, since I landed here from a cross the Atlantic.

Sorry for all the drivel. Celebrating Chelsea's Win over Bayrin Munich.

Watch out UA, England team Landing there SOON

[QUOTE=Jojosun; 1282746]Just tell them you are McDad, and they can have you & get paid for it as well.

Also ask them, wether they want their Coke Shaken, or Stirred, LOL.

Same on Maidan, Independence Square.

BTW, I am not Kirch.[/QUOTE]Ooops.

Don't mention the castrated male sheep "wether "

[QUOTE=Jojosun; 1283177].

I owe it to this great city and its residnts for all the great times I had over the years, since I landed here from a cross the Atlantic.

Sorry for all the drivel. Celebrating Chelsea's Win over Bayrin Munich.

Watch out UA, England team Landing there SOON[/QUOTE]Hi Jojosun,

I live in London and I am also from across the Atlantic, I have been living in London for over 10 years now. Do you have a similar background?

[QUOTE=Delta Indigo; 1283281]Hi Jojosun,

I live in London and I am also from across the Atlantic, I have been living in London for over 10 years now. Do you have a similar background?[/QUOTE].

Hi Delta.

I think you sound fron your posts as a much nicer guy. The jojo in me is more of a bastard (Ask Prosal, LOL) , wasted a lot of money on Booze & hookers, clubs, girls, you name it.

All of this is refelected in my Crap writing style, spelling and grammer mistakes.

Still typing with one finger wherever I can find a Corner In The Land Of (LAPTOPTISTAN) , where I save money by Free Roaming and on Electricity, so I can afford funding my Hobby.

BTW, in (LAPTOPTISTAN) its also a great place to hook up with girls as well. Ask New Yorkers.

Mrs Jojo last night yelled at me, when I got home "I took you out of Clubs and Bars, but I never took the Clubs out of you ".

And I am the Holder of 2 Passports, but only travel on one at a time.

Now, does this sound similar to you?

[QUOTE=Stevie69; 1283139]I was just chatting with (one of) my girlfriend (s) , who is highly educated (Masters degree) and works for a large bank, which flies her across the country and beyond and supposedly gets paid well. Getting well paid has a different meaning in Ukr: about 2000 Hrivna per month!

How can they live on that?

Well, in FSU, during soviet times people were often given a place to live, for life, for free. When USSR broke up, only 20 years ago, people kept possession of these apartments. A lot of people with money bought apartments at the time from those who needed the money to eat, but most kept their apartments.

Now. 20 years later, many people still live rent free, sometimes in crowded conditions (but nothing like Asia) , or they rent out their apartments and live in a cheaper area. If they sell at the right time, they can do fairly well. I know of a girl who had her own place at the tender age or 25, when her grandmother sold her place at the right time, and was able to buy 2 places a couple of years later (one for herself and one for the grand-daughter). When grad-ma passes on, any time now, they will have another apartment to sell or rent.

This is an often forgotten source of wealth. In North America owning your own house or apartment is a goal of most people, a (formerly) achievable goal, if you worked hard and saved your money. Finally paying off that apartment / house, is huge step towards economic independence and eventual retirement. Once people stop paying rent or mortgage, they realize that they can actually live on very little money.

In a way this system makes people complacent in the FSU, specially women who have their own apartments, because they really have no reason to work too hard or seek career advancement. A few hundred Euros (or couple of thousand hrivna) will cover all their costs. It also makes it easier for men to leave their wives or even their pregnant wives, because they know the wife will at least have a place to live.

Anyway, all I am saying is that 300 Euros or dollars for some action, or whatever is being reported here, is a hell of a lot of money. And this is also the reason why perfectly beautiful 20 year old students are sometimes quite happy to do the deed for 50-100 USD.

Anyway, just a thought. Nothing that has not been said before.[/QUOTE]Good post. You know what you are talking about.

[QUOTE=Harry Hardman; 1283031]No offense but you sounded like a vengeful jilted wife of LJ. LOL.

All you guys, Jack 2004, Poker Player, Limarian, Pedro Toronja, Ronaldninja who are mentioned in the above post; please make your comments and set this crazy straight.[/QUOTE]I and reasonable people in thread are sure that Lj is not a shill and is very honest person. I wish there would be another 10 Ljs in the thread, unfortunately he is only one, with his detailed and honest comments. Even if he pays a lot for girls or not, its his money and he can do whatever he wishes with them. Its nobodies buziness. About accusing me and kirch beingljs creation LOL

Yes, you are right. A lot of members say that for years. It is just logic. And that is the reason for which Western females were changed. But how can we change male mindset? How can we avoid one more disaster in Eastern Europe? And how can we keep pimps outside this forum?

[QUOTE=Stevie69; 1283139]I was just chatting with (one of) my girlfriend (s) , who is highly educated (Masters degree) and works for a large bank, which flies her across the country and beyond and supposedly gets paid well. Getting well paid has a different meaning in Ukr: about 2000 Hrivna per month!

How can they live on that?

Well, in FSU, during soviet times people were often given a place to live, for life, for free. When USSR broke up, only 20 years ago, people kept possession of these apartments. A lot of people with money bought apartments at the time from those who needed the money to eat, but most kept their apartments.

Now. 20 years later, many people still live rent free, sometimes in crowded conditions (but nothing like Asia) , or they rent out their apartments and live in a cheaper area. If they sell at the right time, they can do fairly well. I know of a girl who had her own place at the tender age or 25, when her grandmother sold her place at the right time, and was able to buy 2 places a couple of years later (one for herself and one for the grand-daughter). When grad-ma passes on, any time now, they will have another apartment to sell or rent.

This is an often forgotten source of wealth. In North America owning your own house or apartment is a goal of most people, a (formerly) achievable goal, if you worked hard and saved your money. Finally paying off that apartment / house, is huge step towards economic independence and eventual retirement. Once people stop paying rent or mortgage, they realize that they can actually live on very little money.

In a way this system makes people complacent in the FSU, specially women who have their own apartments, because they really have no reason to work too hard or seek career advancement. A few hundred Euros (or couple of thousand hrivna) will cover all their costs. It also makes it easier for men to leave their wives or even their pregnant wives, because they know the wife will at least have a place to live.

Anyway, all I am saying is that 300 Euros or dollars for some action, or whatever is being reported here, is a hell of a lot of money. And this is also the reason why perfectly beautiful 20 year old students are sometimes quite happy to do the deed for 50-100 USD.

Anyway, just a thought. Nothing that has not been said before.[/QUOTE]

And about an absolute different matter, that is a honest relationship between a Western man and a Eastern woman.

You have reported right about incomes, prices and lifestyles in Ukraine.

You should also ask your girlfriends the reason because Eastern women have a serious relationship just with Eastern men, even if their men can offer them just a shitty lifestyle.

And you should also ask your girlfriends the reason because Eastern women are always in relationship with Western men just for their own advantage, and sex doesn't mean anything because it is just a weapon to win a war with foreigners.

[QUOTE=Stevie69;1283139]I was just chatting with (one of) my girlfriend (s) , . Anyway, just a thought. Nothing that has not been said before.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Ronaldinjo;1283401]I and reasonable people in thread are sure that Lj is not a shill and is very honest person. I wish there would be another 10 Ljs in the thread, unfortunately he is only one, with his detailed and honest comments. Even if he pays a lot for girls or not, its his money and he can do whatever he wishes with them. Its nobodies buziness. About accusing me and kirch beingljs creation LOL[/QUOTE]Just create four more characters and you will have 10 LJ's. Daaah!

I was in Kiev last week and had an unforgettable GFE. I am single, a Western national, upper 40s old, company executive, decently handsome and sporty looking and speak fluent Russian. I was on a 3-day holiday and booked a room in a girl-friendly apartment. Actually the place is intentionally prepared for the distinguished monger. The apartments are furnished with mirrored oversize wardrobes, giving you a great panoramic view on what is happening in your bed as you lie in it. The large whirl pool in the bathroom also is handy. I love the youngest, best looking dievs. I prefer the slender petite small breasted ones. I forego the average – would rather spend the night alone. I despise more than others the public display and clamoring for the hot girls in the clubs (which I avoid). Hence, I tried my luck at mamba, set up a free account without photo or story about myself and searched for dievs, having put he checkmark „looking for sex'. Mamba is so user-group-oriented. I sent mamba mails to a few dievs, and in particular to one very nice looking one with more photos than the others and the most sexy profile entries like „looking for a sponsor', „like one-night stands', „loves sports and sex', „live a healthy lifestyle', „ambitious little dreamer'.23 years. 1,62 m. 45kg, just the right, tiny and tight frame to make for a wonderful visual and physical experience. The photos showed a gymnast's body, hard and healthy, in some stretch poses, but all in very good taste and somewhat discreet not to give away the diev's identity. To my honest suprise, this gal was the only one to respond to me. I explained my case to her by a few mamba mails: „age, educated and respectful Western single man looking for 3 days of GFE'. She replied in quick succession and asked some further questions for plausibility. Then she abruptly told her price, „110 USD per hour for sex with me', sent her e-mail and requested a photo picture and my cell phone number, which I supplied. I thought it sexy and professinal how she turned to the core of the matter. I told her that I insist on DFK and that she should come over right away. She sent an sms and I called her back. She was on her way, and said she was unsure and uneasy about whether I was telling the truth. I calmly replied in Russian that we should meet outside the apartment and take some food and talk. Reassuring a diev is always important. I bought some roses and waited for her outside the apartment. When I first saw her, I almost did not recognize her face from the photos, small frame, everything tiny and immaculate and very, very beautiful. Tight deep orange pants, black high heels exposing a pair of immaculate red toe nails, a blouse, a nicely maquillaged face, long flowing hair and pretty hands. We sat down. She was nervous but opened up during coffee and juice. After 20 min I asked her if she still was uneasy. She said she was fine and wanted to move to the apartment. We went up and looked at photos on my tablet, started to cuddle up and decided to undress one another. What a body, pure magic, not a gramm of fat, small but still shapely tits. We snaked around one another and watched one another in the mirror and exchanged DFK. We both had showered before. When we were naked we laid down and hugged. She seemed very receptive but not very active. I gave her a 40 min body massage, got to all parts and checked her out good, all very clean and cute and youthful, be e a you t I f you l vag, She loved to bend over my body exposing her throat by kicking her head back in pleasure, and not minding my hand caressing her vag and mock gagging her exposed throat (I was very tender with this lass). Then she used her hands, lips and tongue on my body. No BBBJ, but she rolled her tongue and lips around my bare dick like biting into a sausage, avoiding contact with the glans. She knew how to avoid danger. I asked her to motion her head always close to my dick for a more explicit image in the mirror. I asked her to use her hands without interruption. We fucked passionately with a condom, but I was a little tired, so I asked her to finish me off with her hands without condom. She readily responded. For the most intense orgasm, I laid on my back, moved her head back very close to my erect dick which was pointng skyward. She applied slight pressure to my balls and anus with the one hand while her other hand was jerking my dick in stride. I came. I spurted five times, like a 20-year old porn stallion, long, hot and high shots of semen which smothered her hands and also hit her very pretty face. She continued to slowly rub the top of my dick which was lubricated in sperm for many minutes, and I could only sigh in awe for her patience and experience. Elegant, youthful, manicured fingers deeply covered in cum. She then showered and relatively soon wanted to leave, for she said she had to work the entire next day in the studio (her regular job). I gave her 250 EUR for 3 hours, thereof maybe 90 min in bed, plus 20 EUR for the taxi. She was a little insistent in that moment but I guess that comes with the job. Money talks I thought. The next day I spent looking at the musuems and sights, and could not wait to meet my diev for a repeat the day thereafter. That day we met at 3 pm in the city for I had promised to buy her a pair of shoes. She looked ravishing and very very sweet when she came into the coffee shop where we had agreed to meet. A 9 for the face and a 10 for the body, immaculate new high heels and black, reasonably tight pants, and a wonderful white blouse with a black rose. I had procured another set of white roses, which she appreciated a lot. What was to follow was a 3 hour shopping marathon that left me short of 300 EUR for 2 pairs of shoes, a skirt and a blouse. I was in a generous mood, but especially I enjoyed the fashion show this diev put on form as she went through endless pieces of apparel and footwear. She just would not quit. I was impressed with her taste, elegance and simplicity. None of the vulgar galore all to known in Eastern Europe aged, jaded or oversized ladies. I was suprised she even chose a pair of comfy no heel white ballerinas, which she wore from that point on, and a very sexy pair of medium heel summer sandals exposing her flawless feet. We ate Sushi and decided to make it back to the apartment. I was very hard, but our legs were tired. So we decided to jump into the whirl pool. I made a huge pile of foam and she entered naked. She wanted a few foam pictures on her camera which I took. Man, the diev looked like a star on Met_Art, clearly above the Met-Art average, which sometimes features gals who are too fleshy and big-boobed for my taste. I enterd the pool and placed myself underneath her, elevating her upper beautiful bodyscape out of the water. The water was slightly on the hot side. She enjoyed the coolnees of levitating half way in the water and halfway in the air, and I appreciated seeing her sexual parts nicely and delicately exposed amid mountain of foam. She still wore make up, and again threw her head back and was anxious were my massage would lead her. I caressed her tits which were pointing skywards. I carressed her tummy, her face and legs for endless times, shoving warm water and shampoo on her body in loose intervals. Finally I inserted my middle finger into her shaven pussy, which was very wet and slippery by that time. She parted her legs for better penetration and I started to gyrate my finger all the while caressing her tummy, tits and clit with the other hand. Finally I placed the free hand firmly on her venus mound and carressed her strongly there, with the middle finger of the other hand still doing its magic deep inside her tummy. She started moaning and panting for a long time, then pushing out high pitch, suppressed sounds of lust, one two, three, four, five, six, seven times and then she came in the sweetest way in a long succession of major convulsions. My generosity, nice manner, true story) and tenderness had turned this lass around from a pretty but reticent service attitude into a dreamy defenseless quimmering, overwhelmed, lust-flooded, lost orgasmic angel. We kept hugging for a long time and she entertained my dick with her hands under water. The next thing we did was see a major European football match event on TV before we retired to the bedroom for my deserved reward. The diev went right to work with a BBBJ, this time very slowly but surely attacking the glans with her tongue and then deep throating my member. She looked so good in the mirror in her motions, her tight stomach facing downwards to the bed without any type of curvature or even fat hangig down. She developed enormous energy and endurance – she would not want to have it any other way, until I spurt deep into her throat – I never saw my spice of life again. Afterwards she started a long back massage and we talked. When I was ready for a second round, I positioned her behind me telling her she should alawys show her face and body silhouette and point her hands and my dick towards the mirror. She stroked me expertly. Switching between seeing her innocent Met-Art type face and body and her rapidly flinging hands, fingers and nails around my dick and balls I could not hold on for long and spurted three times, the furst spurt again of spectacular quality, volume and height. She cleaned me and we relaxed. Later that evening we went out, shot some hours talking, eating sushi and smoking kaleon (which I will never do again). All in all I spent some 1 000 EUR on her in 2 days, which opened her up completely. She told me that her mamba page gets 6 000 visits a month (!). This lass gets between 50 and 100 responses a day, she said. She makes 250 EUR / month as a receptinist at a studio and about 1 000 EUR as a diev. She only gets herself to do 2 or 3 guys per month, she prefers foreigners, and she does not consider herself a prostitute. She wants a family and a decent life. She never does clubs and wants to stay discrete and unknown. She was never photographed and there is no pic of her on the web other than her mamba site. She lives in her apartment and enjoys a healthy life. In summary, I was very lucky to to be able to sponsor a Met-Art quality type of diev 23 years younger than myself, had endless voyeuristic pleasure and she made me cum at will. Sustaining and sponsoring the gal's shopping hobby until she was exhausted broke down all her defenses. 2nd evening with a stranger and the bimbo orgasmed entirely naturally, in love and totally at ease. This story is entirely true. I respect the courage of this young Ukrainian diev. In fact, I really like her.

[QUOTE=Jojosun; 1283334].

Hi Delta.

I think you sound fron your posts as a much nicer guy. The jojo in me is more of a bastard (Ask Prosal, LOL) , wasted a lot of money on Booze & hookers, clubs, girls, you name it.

All of this is refelected in my Crap writing style, spelling and grammer mistakes.

Still typing with one finger wherever I can find a Corner In The Land Of (LAPTOPTISTAN) , where I save money by Free Roaming and on Electricity, so I can afford funding my Hobby.

BTW, in (LAPTOPTISTAN) its also a great place to hook up with girls as well. Ask New Yorkers.

Mrs Jojo last night yelled at me, when I got home "I took you out of Clubs and Bars, but I never took the Clubs out of you ".

And I am the Holder of 2 Passports, but only travel on one at a time.

Now, does this sound similar to you?[/QUOTE]Well kind of,

I do not know if I am a nice guy, I do not think so, but many girls say so. I love sex and going far to fulfill my sexual needs, but most girls I have sex with have a good feeling about it, wether I pay or not. I have tamed many working girls. I think I have a way of being nice to them, makeing them feel comfortable. I have been with many working girls, who are defensive and agreesive in the beginning, but after a few minutes calm down and try to please me.

I wish I had this skill with non pros that I have with working girls, working girls tend to love me. But I live real strong sex, I need to satisfy my urges at all costs. I have a physical condition, I last a bit too long, and I feel it near the base, some girls (quite a few) have told me I am large, but I need to pound hard persistently to get off. I do not feel nice.

Well I was married until a few years ago, she was a good girl, but I was not satisfied and could not get my urges fulfilled with her so I neglected her and I still feel bad about this.

So am I a nice guy, I have no idea. I really do not know, but I am the holder of 2 passports like you and I only travel with one as well, in Europe with the UK one.

First of all I want to thank all of you for writing some excellent informative posts. What I observe is this in this site. Except for LJ most of the other posts are subjective meaning most of you mention the various clubs and websites where girls can be found but no step by step details as given by LJ. LJ takes the extra effort to write a detailed report with cost benefit analysis which is very suitable for novices like me.

I was in Kiev and odesa in January. The Mickey Ds in Odesa is active too like the ones in Maidan in kyiv to find devushkas. I also found mid eastern girls in odesa too.

Also in Rio I got girls for 5-6 hours for 300$.4 different girls 4 different days. That brings it down to 50$ range per hour. And you have the choice of your girls. How much would I rate the girls I got 7-8. Again beauty is

Subjective.

I am still learning the tricks of the trade.

Meanwhile I thank you all for some excellent posts (Prosal, Irish Lad, Climaxnow, Jojosun, Reiner Otto to name a few). And a special thanks to LJ. All of you are the best.

I will be in ukraine this summer.

Cheers,

Miscgk

I am glad you did enjoyed Kiev stay.

But I think you pay her far to much. 1k is 4 month of work for her. Treating them good and with respect gives results. But I always use my right part of the brain when it comes to money.

I always expect kissing, uncovered blowjob and GFE from dievs. If not I consider it as unacceptable and rather use my right hand.

[QUOTE=Miscgk10; 1283540]First of all I want to thank all of you for writing some excellent informative posts. What I observe is this in this site. Except for LJ most of the other posts are subjective meaning most of you mention the various clubs and websites where girls can be found but no step by step details as given by LJ. LJ takes the extra effort to write a detailed report with cost benefit analysis which is very suitable for novices like me.

I was in Kiev and odesa in January. The Mickey Ds in Odesa is active too like the ones in Maidan in kyiv to find devushkas. I also found mid eastern girls in Odesa too.

Also in Rio I got girls for 5-6 hours for 300$.4 different girls 4 different days. That brings it down to 50$ range per hour. And you have the choice of your girls. How much would I rate the girls I got 7-8. Again beauty is subjective.

I am still learning the tricks of the trade.

Meanwhile I thank you all for some excellent posts (Prosal, Irish Lad, Climaxnow, Jojosun, Reiner Otto to name a few). And a special thanks to LJ. All of you are the best.

I will be in ukraine this summer.

Cheers,

Miscgk[/QUOTE]If the above is not one of Climaxnow's Own Creation. LOL, I don't know what is LOL.

"I am still learning the tricks of the trade ", gives Climaxnow's game straight away.

Check his posts on Kiev, and you will see that he did say "He was still learning ". More than once in his posts.

Folks. Look out on Kreschatick for guys with a (capital LL) , label glued on their backs, shilling themselves.

Now we are dealing with a growing number of Ghost Mongers in KIEV, LOL.

[QUOTE=Miscgk10; 1283540]First of all I want to thank all of you.

I was in Kiev and odesa in January. The Mickey Ds in Odesa is active too like the ones in Maidan in kyiv to find devushkas. I also found mid eastern girls in odesa too.

Cheers,

Miscgk[/QUOTE]The trouble with me is I take my hobby very seriously. I take my time reading posts, and cross reference, to get the best deals going.

"Mid Eastern Girls in Odessa too ". Are you sure?

It begs the question, what the hell are they doing there/

Impoverished students looking for extra income. Or UA Tatar girls who look Mid Eastern.

Affluent Middle Eastern Families send their daughters to the UK, The US, France, Switzerland to study.

Did you actually get to speak to them, and find out where in the Middle East they hail From / Nationality, race, etc. After all Israel is a Mid Eastern country as well.

I thought its the other way round? Its UA girls who head to some Mid Eastern countries to work.

UkeBoy our expert on the subject of Kiev and Ukraine, posted here not that long ago, that he hooked up with a Ukrainian Female (Of a certain age) in Joradn of all places and had great time with her. From memory it did cost him US$200 all night.

Irish Lad is another expert on the subject and know Odessa well.

It would be interesting to hear their comments on the subject.

As mentioned earlier, I love skinny things around me. I cannot pm you, but please exchange some contacts with me!

Hey man, trouble ahead. Because of the last sentence in your report.

And I know, what I am talking about. Had very similar experience during my time in SPb (RF) , end of 90's until 2005. I had my own business there (IT) , age similar to yours in the beginning. Her age was also similar as the girls one in your story, main job, was differen, but side job the same.

So in case of interest, PM me for further discussions.

What do you think about Romanian escorts?

[QUOTE=Miscgk10; 1283540]First of all I want to thank all of you for writing some excellent informative posts. What I observe is this in this site. Except for LJ most of the other posts are subjective meaning most of you mention the various clubs and websites where girls can be found but no step by step details as given by LJ. LJ takes the extra effort to write a detailed report with cost benefit analysis which is very suitable for novices like me.

I was in Kiev and odesa in January. The Mickey Ds in Odesa is active too like the ones in Maidan in kyiv to find devushkas. I also found mid eastern girls in odesa too.

Also in Rio I got girls for 5-6 hours for 300$.4 different girls 4 different days. That brings it down to 50$ range per hour. And you have the choice of your girls. How much would I rate the girls I got 7-8. Again beauty is

Subjective.

I am still learning the tricks of the trade.

Meanwhile I thank you all for some excellent posts (Prosal, Irish Lad, Climaxnow, Jojosun, Reiner Otto to name a few). And a special thanks to LJ. All of you are the best.

I will be in ukraine this summer.

Cheers,

Miscgk[/QUOTE]I am the one with the suspecious mind, I know.

Had I not seen Climaxnow included in the List Of Members being Thanked, then all of the above would have been Very Plausible.

Good report but man, what have you got against paragraphs? It is almost unreadable as is.

[QUOTE=Philosophus1; 1283510]I was in Kiev last week and had an unforgettable GFE. I am single, a Western national, upper 40s old, company executive, decently handsome and sporty looking and speak fluent Russian. I was on a 3-day holiday and booked a room in a girl-friendly apartment. Actually the place is intentionally prepared for the distinguished monger. The apartments are furnished with mirrored oversize wardrobes, giving you a great panoramic view on what is happening in your bed as you lie in it. The large whirl pool in the bathroom also is handy.

I love the youngest, best looking dievs. I prefer the slender petite small breasted ones. I forego the average – would rather spend the night alone. I despise more than others the public display and clamoring for the hot girls in the clubs (which I avoid). Hence, I tried my luck at mamba, set up a free account without photo or story about myself and searched for dievs, having put he checkmark „looking for sex'. Mamba is so user-group-oriented. I sent mamba mails to a few dievs, and in particular to one very nice looking one with more photos than the others and the most sexy profile entries like „looking for a sponsor', „like one-night stands', „loves sports and sex', „live a healthy lifestyle', „ambitious little dreamer'.23 years. 1,62 m. 45kg, just the right, tiny and tight frame to make for a wonderful visual and physical experience.

The photos showed a gymnast's body, hard and healthy, in some stretch poses, but all in very good taste and somewhat discreet not to give away the diev's identity. To my honest suprise, this gal was the only one to respond to me. I explained my case to her by a few mamba mails: „age, educated and respectful Western single man looking for 3 days of GFE'. She replied in quick succession and asked some further questions for plausibility. Then she abruptly told her price, „110 USD per hour for sex with me', sent her e-mail and requested a photo picture and my cell phone number, which I supplied. I thought it sexy and professinal how she turned to the core of the matter. I told her that I insist on DFK and that she should come over right away. She sent an sms and I called her back. She was on her way, and said she was unsure and uneasy about whether I was telling the truth. I calmly replied in Russian that we should meet outside the apartment and take some food and talk. Reassuring a diev is always important.

I bought some roses and waited for her outside the apartment. When I first saw her, I almost did not recognize her face from the photos, small frame, everything tiny and immaculate and very, very beautiful. Tight deep orange pants, black high heels exposing a pair of immaculate red toe nails, a blouse, a nicely maquillaged face, long flowing hair and pretty hands. We sat down. She was nervous but opened up during coffee and juice. After 20 min I asked her if she still was uneasy. She said she was fine and wanted to move to the apartment.

We went up and looked at photos on my tablet, started to cuddle up and decided to undress one another. What a body, pure magic, not a gramm of fat, small but still shapely tits. We snaked around one another and watched one another in the mirror and exchanged DFK. We both had showered before. When we were naked we laid down and hugged. She seemed very receptive but not very active. I gave her a 40 min body massage, got to all parts and checked her out good, all very clean and cute and youthful, be e a you t I f you l vag, She loved to bend over my body exposing her throat by kicking her head back in pleasure, and not minding my hand caressing her vag and mock gagging her exposed throat (I was very tender with this lass). Then she used her hands, lips and tongue on my body. No BBBJ, but she rolled her tongue and lips around my bare dick like biting into a sausage, avoiding contact with the glans. She knew how to avoid danger.

I asked her to motion her head always close to my dick for a more explicit image in the mirror. I asked her to use her hands without interruption. We fucked passionately with a condom, but I was a little tired, so I asked her to finish me off with her hands without condom. She readily responded. For the most intense orgasm, I laid on my back, moved her head back very close to my erect dick which was pointng skyward. She applied slight pressure to my balls and anus with the one hand while her other hand was jerking my dick in stride. I came. I spurted five times, like a 20-year old porn stallion, long, hot and high shots of semen which smothered her hands and also hit her very pretty face. She continued to slowly rub the top of my dick which was lubricated in sperm for many minutes, and I could only sigh in awe for her patience and experience.

Elegant, youthful, manicured fingers deeply covered in cum. She then showered and relatively soon wanted to leave, for she said she had to work the entire next day in the studio (her regular job). I gave her 250 EUR for 3 hours, thereof maybe 90 min in bed, plus 20 EUR for the taxi. She was a little insistent in that moment but I guess that comes with the job. Money talks I thought.

The next day I spent looking at the musuems and sights, and could not wait to meet my diev for a repeat the day thereafter. That day we met at 3 pm in the city for I had promised to buy her a pair of shoes. She looked ravishing and very very sweet when she came into the coffee shop where we had agreed to meet. A 9 for the face and a 10 for the body, immaculate new high heels and black, reasonably tight pants, and a wonderful white blouse with a black rose. I had procured another set of white roses, which she appreciated a lot.

What was to follow was a 3 hour shopping marathon that left me short of 300 EUR for 2 pairs of shoes, a skirt and a blouse. I was in a generous mood, but especially I enjoyed the fashion show this diev put on form as she went through endless pieces of apparel and footwear. She just would not quit. I was impressed with her taste, elegance and simplicity. None of the vulgar galore all to known in Eastern Europe aged, jaded or oversized ladies. I was suprised she even chose a pair of comfy no heel white ballerinas, which she wore from that point on, and a very sexy pair of medium heel summer sandals exposing her flawless feet.

`We ate Sushi and decided to make it back to the apartment. I was very hard, but our legs were tired. So we decided to jump into the whirl pool. I made a huge pile of foam and she entered naked. She wanted a few foam pictures on her camera which I took. Man, the diev looked like a star on Met_Art, clearly above the Met-Art average, which sometimes features gals who are too fleshy and big-boobed for my taste.

I enterd the pool and placed myself underneath her, elevating her upper beautiful bodyscape out of the water. The water was slightly on the hot side. She enjoyed the coolnees of levitating half way in the water and halfway in the air, and I appreciated seeing her sexual parts nicely and delicately exposed amid mountain of foam. She still wore make up, and again threw her head back and was anxious were my massage would lead her. I caressed her tits which were pointing skywards. I carressed her tummy, her face and legs for endless times, shoving warm water and shampoo on her body in loose intervals. Finally I inserted my middle finger into her shaven pussy, which was very wet and slippery by that time. She parted her legs for better penetration and I started to gyrate my finger all the while caressing her tummy, tits and clit with the other hand. Finally I placed the free hand firmly on her venus mound and carressed her strongly there, with the middle finger of the other hand still doing its magic deep inside her tummy.

She started moaning and panting for a long time, then pushing out high pitch, suppressed sounds of lust, one two, three, four, five, six, seven times and then she came in the sweetest way in a long succession of major convulsions. My generosity, nice manner, true story) and tenderness had turned this lass around from a pretty but reticent service attitude into a dreamy defenseless quimmering, overwhelmed, lust-flooded, lost orgasmic angel. We kept hugging for a long time and she entertained my dick with her hands under water.

The next thing we did was see a major European football match event on TV before we retired to the bedroom for my deserved reward. The diev went right to work with a BBBJ, this time very slowly but surely attacking the glans with her tongue and then deep throating my member. She looked so good in the mirror in her motions, her tight stomach facing downwards to the bed without any type of curvature or even fat hangig down. She developed enormous energy and endurance – she would not want to have it any other way, until I spurt deep into her throat – I never saw my spice of life again.

Afterwards she started a long back massage and we talked. When I was ready for a second round, I positioned her behind me telling her she should alawys show her face and body silhouette and point her hands and my dick towards the mirror. She stroked me expertly. Switching between seeing her innocent Met-Art type face and body and her rapidly flinging hands, fingers and nails around my dick and balls I could not hold on for long and spurted three times, the furst spurt again of spectacular quality, volume and height. She cleaned me and we relaxed.

Later that evening we went out, shot some hours talking, eating sushi and smoking kaleon (which I will never do again). All in all I spent some 1 000 EUR on her in 2 days, which opened her up completely. She told me that her mamba page gets 6 000 visits a month (!). This lass gets between 50 and 100 responses a day, she said. She makes 250 EUR / month as a receptinist at a studio and about 1 000 EUR as a diev. She only gets herself to do 2 or 3 guys per month, she prefers foreigners, and she does not consider herself a prostitute. She wants a family and a decent life. She never does clubs and wants to stay discrete and unknown. She was never photographed and there is no pic of her on the web other than her mamba site. She lives in her apartment and enjoys a healthy life.

In summary, I was very lucky to to be able to sponsor a Met-Art quality type of diev 23 years younger than myself, had endless voyeuristic pleasure and she made me cum at will. Sustaining and sponsoring the gal's shopping hobby until she was exhausted broke down all her defenses. 2nd evening with a stranger and the bimbo orgasmed entirely naturally, in love and totally at ease. This story is entirely true. I respect the courage of this young Ukrainian diev. In fact, I really like her.[/QUOTE]

Nice report, Philosphorus 1! I enjoyed reading it despite the lack of paragraphs.

You should be careful with this girl from here on in. I think you over spent on her and might have even spoiled her. I understand you like her and I can tell you are a gentleman. This is not a crime however, you are doing yourself no favors either.

During my first mongering trip to Kiev I met a young woman at River Palace and I was completely taken with her. Really, she was the perfect fit for me and I began to overspend on her and allowed myself to become seperated from reality to some extent. I am not suggesting you have done this completely but perhaps you are on your way. Enjoy your new friend but keep reminding yourself of the reality of the situation. Thank you for the honest reporting!

I agree with you. And do you think he could be a pimp with his tearful story? . (wink)

[QUOTE=Tomux 22; 1283691]I am glad you did enjoyed Kiev stay.

But I think you pay her far to much. 1k is 4 month of work for her. Treating them good and with respect gives results. But I always use my right part of the brain when it comes to money.

I always expect kissing, uncovered blowjob and GFE from dievs. If not I consider it as unacceptable and rather use my right hand.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Jojosun; 1283708]If the above is not one of Climaxnow's Own Creation. LOL, I don't know what is LOL.

"I am still learning the tricks of the trade ", gives Climaxnow's game straight away.

Check his posts on Kiev, and you will see that he did say "He was still learning ". More than once in his posts.

Folks. Look out on Kreschatick for guys with a (capital LL) , label glued on their backs, shilling themselves.

Now we are dealing with a growing number of Ghost Mongers in KIEV, LOL.[/QUOTE]Please read through my 211 posts and tell me what venue I am shilling. I joined ISG to talk to real people about the hobby. I am not interested in reading fairy tales designed to lure men to Kiev. The stooge posting on this thread knows well that once you have arrived into town you will naturally go where it is easiest to find prostitutes. For example, take this post by Philophosus1, its a complete fabrication by you know who. His only intent is to create an illusion of easy to find girlfriends in Kiev. He wants you to jump on that plane thinking beautiful met girls will be knocking on your door. I had read enough of this posters reports to realize he is not a monger. No matter how well written he is, he simply has no talent in relaying himself as an authentic monger. His stuff is so bush league superficial that it is easy to spot on the thread.

As to any post of mine stating I am learning, that is only true in the sense I am now physically getting my ass into Eastern Europe. I have been dating Eastern Europeans for twenty years. I have dated all the nationalities except Latvians and Maldovians. I have been in there lives from the days they lived in a basement to the day they could afford to buy there own condo. I have a good understanding of all the nuances of the different nationalities. How about you JoJo? What did you do? Fuck a couple of Polish girls in London for cash and now maybe you think your some kind of expert.

[QUOTE=Michelle Suzan;1283739]What do you think about Romanian escorts?[/QUOTE]I'm curious why you are asking your question about Romanian escorts on the Kiev thread? Are you a Romanian escort trying to get noticed? My experience with Romanian escorts on the Internet is that all pictures are fake, much like in Kiev. Furthermore, the few occasions I did try a Romanian escort to my hotel while in Bucharest, the girl who arrived was a hardcore upseller and cheat. I do not recommend Romanian escorts inside Romania (some on the Bucharest thread of ISG report ok results with an agency called damedelux). However, I Do love the look of Romanian women. And for those who share that enjoyment of the beauty of Romanian women, I would recommend visiting the FKK clubs Palace and Oase in the immediate environs of Frankfurt, Germany. There one will find a staff containing a large percentage of girls from Romania and more recently Moldova (although they may have meant Moldavia, a principality inside Romania) , as well as girls from Bulgaria, Poland, Germany and other origins. The Romanian girls I have met in the FKK's were for the most part, gorgeous and very nice, if you treat them well. However, Some guys who approach them with a very cheap attitude of wanting the girl to give everything she has for a short 50 Euro session have gotten less than great results. It's because there is nothing that will get a Romanian going (male or female) than the sense that someone is trying to take advantage of them. Then, watch out! They are very adept at trying to get the upper hand. But if you approach these girls with respect and generosity and tell them upfront that you want to be good to them and give them a longer session of at least an hour, and longer if they are very good, then you probably won't get a better session from anyone. Because you have then turned around the motivations of the girl from trying to get the better of you, into trying to please you more. All I can say when thinking of the wonderful Romanian girls I have been with in Germany are words like,"sizzling","magnificent" and "wonderful". My dreams are still filled with images from some of the best moments I have shared with some Romanian girls in the FKK's whom I would consider to be 9's at least, and I keep going back to see some of those same girls, one in particular at FKK Goldentime in Vienna, Austria. So I say, Romanian escorts are great, but only outside Romania, in the FKK's, or perhaps other locations (I'm thinking of some Romanian girls I met in Madrid, Spain in clubs like Flowers Park and Factory Air, who were pretty hot also.)

LJ

[QUOTE=Climaxnow; 1283824]Please read through my 211 posts and tell me what venue I am promoting. I joined ISG to talk to real people about the hobby. I am not interested in reading fairy tales designed to lure men to Kiev. The fool posting on this thread knows well that once you have arrived into town you will naturally go where it is easiest to find prostitutes. For example, take this post by Philophosus1, its a complete fabrication by you know who. His only intent is to create an illusion of easy to find girlfriends in Kiev. He wants you to jump on that plane thinking beautiful met girls will be knocking on your door. I had read enough of this posters reports to realize he is not a monger. No matter how well written he is, he simply has no talent in relaying himself as an authentic monger. His stuff is so Bush league superficial that it is easy to spot on the thread.

As to any post of mine stating I am learning, that is only true in the sense I am now physically getting my ass into Eastern Europe. I have been dating Eastern Europeans for twenty years. I have dated all the nationalities except Latvians and Maldovians. I have been in there lives from the days they lived in a basement to the day they could afford to buy there own condo. I have a good understanding of all the nuances of the different nationalities. How about you JoJo? What did you do? Fuck a couple of Polish girls in London for cash and now maybe you think your some kind of expert.[/QUOTE]I thought you were much smarter than what you posted above/

You should have taken the time to" read what I posted " before hitting the Fucking Keyboard. You did this rant with me once before on the kharkov thread, and when I replied to you, you came back and apologized. Remember.

Who I Fuck or Fucked is my own business, and I don't need to prove anything to you or anyone else for that matter. What For. And yes I pay Polish Girls and all girls in cash, upfront as well. .

I don't sign them "I owe you notes ", nor do I hang around them long enough to (Put them up on The Property Ladder ). This is what they call it in the UK.

You started this whole business about LJ and his creations and that club, Right?

I am merely a reader of what both of you post here. I also read what "other Creations " have posted as well, in reply to your allegations.

But its you who needs to prove them wrong, because the Onus is on you, as the one who made the allegations in the first place.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow; 1283824]Please read through my 211 posts and tell me what venue I am shilling. I joined ISG to talk to real people about the hobby. I am not interested in reading fairy tales designed to lure men to Kiev. The stooge posting on this thread knows well that once you have arrived into town you will naturally go where it is easiest to find prostitutes. For example, take this post by Philophosus1, its a complete fabrication by you know who. His only intent is to create an illusion of easy to find girlfriends in Kiev. He wants you to jump on that plane thinking beautiful met girls will be knocking on your door. I had read enough of this posters reports to realize he is not a monger. No matter how well written he is, he simply has no talent in relaying himself as an authentic monger. His stuff is so Bush league superficial that it is easy to spot on the thread.

As to any post of mine stating I am learning, that is only true in the sense I am now physically getting my ass into Eastern Europe. I have been dating Eastern Europeans for twenty years. I have dated all the nationalities except Latvians and Maldovians. I have been in there lives from the days they lived in a basement to the day they could afford to buy there own condo. I have a good understanding of all the nuances of the different nationalities. How about you JoJo? What did you do? Fuck a couple of Polish girls in London for cash and now maybe you think your some kind of expert.[/QUOTE]Read what you posted in the Kharkov thread.

"My apologies JoJo! I have to stop wizzing through the threads and replying without any thought. (smiley)"

this warning applies not only to vb but other establishments.

in vb watch out for 2 brunettes called anya and natasha. one isg member took them back to his apartment as p4p, but it ended up costing him more as one of the girls stole more cash from his wallet in the morning. girls were not attractive at all for kiev standards.

always try and have a safe in the apartment or hide the cash before getting into the hardcore action. easier said than done when you're totally pissed.

vb is not my fav place by far, but only place that seems to work everyday. looked like a lot of **** girls there too, another thing to watch out for.

hope this report helps newbies and regular visitors in avoiding these problems. but generally kiev is a safe place but these things can happen anywhere, you just need to take some simple precautions.

Speaking of precautions. I have had my share of brunettes and blonds costing me more than my money, I. E. My pride. Now I always try take a photo (on my phone) in the bar (restaurant, disco, wherever) before we hit the apartment. If she denies you of photo in neutral environment, then she probably has no good intentions. That's my theory anyway. If she knows you have a photo in your phone, she is less likely to do something stupid like empty you wallet when you are dazed and confused by all this whiskey in the jar.

By the way, my worst case of problems was a dancer in Shooters. Would not let me photograph her, but she is on the first photo from Apr. 30. On the clubs homepage.

[QUOTE=Immy007; 1283906]This warning applies not only to VB but other establishments.

Hope this report helps newbies and regular visitors in avoiding these problems. But generally Kiev is a safe place but these things can happen anywhere, you just need to take some simple precautions.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Jojosun;1283853]But its you who needs to prove them wrong, because the Onus is on you, as the one who made the allegations in the first place.[/QUOTE]I don't have to prove anything. I'm just trying to send a message to guys like myself to not believe everything you read on this thread. The stooge is trying to seduce men to visit Kiev with his fabricated stories. He is playing into the notions of shitty Russian men, desperate girls, and glorified p4p's. Like I just said in a recent post, once you are there as a newbie you will naturally gravitate to his venue where prostitutes are plenty and easily accessed. Problem is you could have probably found similar talent for much less at home.

Its obvious that modern day reality in Eastern Europe is simply not understood by an amateur like yourself.

[quote=immy007; 1283906]this warning applies not only to vb but other establishments.

in vb watch out for 2 brunettes called anya and natasha. one isg member took them back to his apartment as p4p, but it ended up costing him more as one of the girls stole more cash from his wallet in the morning. girls were not attractive at all for kiev standards.

always try and have a safe in the apartment or hide the cash before getting into the hardcore action. easier said than done when you're totally pissed.

vb is not my fav place by far, but only place that seems to work everyday. looked like a lot of **** girls there too, another thing to watch out for.

hope this report helps newbies and regular visitors in avoiding these problems. but generally kiev is a safe place but these things can happen anywhere, you just need to take some simple precautions.[/quote]hi immy,

it is a worthwhile cautionary note about personal security for anyone intending to bring a p4p girl or girls back to one's apartment. your suggestion about using a safe is not always possible or practical, only because most apartment rentals do not have a safe in them. a safe is something more likely to be found in a hotel room worldwide.

for those contemplating an apartment rental, one might ask the rental company if a safe can be made available. i don't know if they can, because i never asked. instead i used a solid looking combination lock to lock up my valuables.

whenever any girl (s) were going to be in my apartment, or upon leaving the apartment with the intention of having a girl that i would pick up with me when i returned, or even after my return, while the girl was in the bathroom, i prepared the apartment so that i wouldn't have to worry what was going on while i was in the shower, or not looking. i put my valuables including passport, credit cards, cash, gifts, electronics etc. into one compartment of my luggage that can be zipped up with two zipper tags. i threaded the metal hook of the combination lock through the holes at the two ends of the metal zipper tags so that the compartment zipped up couldn't be unzipped due to the lock. i locked up the largest piece of luggage i had brought, which would be inconvenient for someone to carry off. i felt this was sufficient protection for a thieving girl who might rifle through my belongings while i was distracted or in the bathroom for a few minutes (who presume able didn't have wire cutters in her purse).

i also did not carry a lot of cash with me for exchange into local currency. instead i left all my money in my bank and only withdrew that amount i could anticipate using that day. this was done from an atm machine, which are conveniently located all over the downtown kiev area. i withdrew from an account at a bank which does not assess an additional 3% for a foreign transaction fee for each transaction of cash withdrawal. therefore, only the atm fee for use of the atm was charghed, just as for a withdrawal at home. the bank applied a commercially reasonable exchange rate. i saw no reason to increase my security risk by carrying more cash than immediately needed each day, or even each time i went out, for the purposes at hand.

so if i went out to the grocery, i took maybe up to $100 or $200, because i couldn't see myself spending more. but if i was going out to find a p4p candidate who would be a high level hottie, i took $400 or $500, so i would have adequate funds for what i had in mind for that night.

in this way the amount of cash put at risk at any given time, was the minimum amount of cash needed that day, but no more.

another poster suggested keeping big bills in one pocket separate from smaller bills, so that one never would take out of one's a large amount of money unnecessarily and expose the fact that you were carrying such a large amou t to eyes that might be tempted to try to relieve you of some of your extra money in some way. it's a good suggestion.

i also kept all the important items, passport, the 1 atm card, and the large cash bills, all together in my right front pocket, and i had the habit of having my right hand in or against that pocket.

i would generally leave the apartment with all valuables locked up, and only my original passport, only one atm credit card in case it turned out i needed more cash, and the amount of cash i estimated needing for whatever i was intending to do that time when i went out. when i returned to the apartment, sometimes i just left things i had in my pants pocket and took my pants with me if i had to go into the bathroom. or sometimes, at the appropriate time when the girl was in the bathroom, i locked away my passport, atm card and cash, leaving only enough cash in my pocket to reward the girl for her efforts if needed, so i didn't have to worry about keeping my pants in sight.

every guy has his own level of cautiousness. i operate on the assumptions that wg's will steal if they get the chance, whether i am mongering in costa rica, or dominican republic or kiev.

lj

[QUOTE=Climaxnow; 1283824]Please read through my 211 posts and tell me what venue I am shilling. I joined ISG to talk to real people about the hobby. I am not interested in reading fairy tales designed to lure men to Kiev. The stooge posting on this thread knows well that once you have arrived into town you will naturally go where it is easiest to find prostitutes. For example, take this post by Philophosus1, its a complete fabrication by you know who. His only intent is to create an illusion of easy to find girlfriends in Kiev. He wants you to jump on that plane thinking beautiful met girls will be knocking on your door. I had read enough of this posters reports to realize he is not a monger. No matter how well written he is, he simply has no talent in relaying himself as an authentic monger. His stuff is so Bush league superficial that it is easy to spot on the thread.

As to any post of mine stating I am learning, that is only true in the sense I am now physically getting my ass into Eastern Europe. I have been dating Eastern Europeans for twenty years. I have dated all the nationalities except Latvians and Maldovians. I have been in there lives from the days they lived in a basement to the day they could afford to buy there own condo. I have a good understanding of all the nuances of the different nationalities. How about you JoJo? What did you do? Fuck a couple of Polish girls in London for cash and now maybe you think your some kind of expert.[/QUOTE]Folks,

I posted my story, which is entirely factual, as a way of thanking the much more prolific contributors than I happen to be one. I wanted to entertain you in a style that I find extremely arousing while writing, which is respectful to the diev and still explicit, graphic and pornographic enough to express my view on things physical. I know I am not the only one who ticks along these lines.

So let me address my detractors.

I forgot the paragraphs. I apologize, it was my first contribution to the site. (I do not know why the site claims already 2 contributions). I pledge to be a fast learner.

Then there is the fella who suggests I am pimp. Man, please use your last two remaining synapsis. Have you ever met a pimp? A pimp who can spell philosophy and its practitioner? Did you ever wonder why the f. Word does not start with a ph? Come on, man.

And. Some of the contributions on this site are worse than others, but then there is climaxow, whose sperm ducts apparently have crowded out even his remaining two synapsis. I am glad to note that he claims that his a. (his behind) still clings on to his frame. All right, enough abuse, climaxnow, I am no better than you, not by one atom. I actually appreciate you challenge me. And you laud me as a man of letters, who I am. But you are dead wrong. If you were right, that would raise the question of who pays me for not telling the truth. The airline industry? Kiev's tourism promoting authority? The chamber of apartment providers in Kiev? The diev union? Met-Art? The United WG front? Let me tell you, I am not paid by anyone for luring anybody anywhere.

If you doubt I was there, and you were there, ask me about the length of the queue last Saturday in front of the art gallery next to Arena in Kiev. And why there was a queue. Ask about the Timati concert in Byblos bar. You claim to know the workings of Eastern Europe, but your written manner suggests you are not privy to some of my experiences, and I am no talking about a possible difference in spending power between us two. The gentlemen who suggested I overpaid are both wrong and right. I could have gotten away with less, I know. But as Stalin found out, you cannot force people to laugh, I found out that no matter how nice you are, you cannot force a gal to orgasm. The feeling to really have moved a top desirable diev to this incredible length is priceless. The tab did not hit a poor man. I will say that the times I overspent in my life where those when I tried to establish a relationship with a gal which was not built on the premise of sex first. This turned out to be 10 to 100 times more expensive that what I spent in Kiev. Climaxnow is entirely right that I am not a monger. Did I claim to be one? And I certainly do not claim to be any better than any one on this forum in a moral sense. I just learned from the forum and enjoyed reading, and sought to reciprocate.

Getting back to my diev and to entertaining you, I will heed the warnings of the gentlemen who were so courteous to comment. You are dead right. My diev. I still wonder. They all claim to be so innocent. They really want to do no harm. But then they can't resist the rising urges. When she turned 14 or 15, she started to get so wet and horny chitchatting about guys, she burned a whole in ther panties and had to try it all out. When she turned 21 the money does not suffice to finance her hobbies, such a tough world, and she starts to earn some extra cash. For what else did the good Lord give her her heavenly shape? And then she gets all excited by generosity and tenderness to throw the precautions over board and orgasm by the hands of a stranger in a cloud of foam in a super erotic setting. Priceless. Keep trying and keep dreaming men, that is what it is all about. Reality can beat fantasy. It is all true.

But I guess they don't need sponsors

[QUOTE=Climaxnow; 1283975]I don't have to prove anything. I'm just trying to send a message to guys like myself to not believe everything you read on this thread. The stooge is trying to seduce men to visit Kiev with his fabricated stories. He is playing into the notions of shitty Russian men, desperate girls, and glorified p4p's. Like I just said in a recent post, once you are there as a newbie you will naturally gravitate to his venue where prostitutes are plenty and easily accessed. Problem is you could have probably found similar talent for much less at home.

Its obvious that modern day reality in Eastern Europe is simply not understood by an amateur like yourself.[/QUOTE]Its obvious now that I wasted enough time and space on you, I don't need your fucking lecture contained in your post. I can read for myself and make up my own mind.

You are addressing the wrong guy here.

"Modern Day Reality in Eastern Europe ", that I don't understand. My Fucking Foot.

A one time visitor to Kiev lecturing me on the Reallty of Eastern Europe from his base in Chicago. And what about the time when you paid that hooker in Kiev US$150 / hour. That's your reality of Eastern Europe.

BTW. What happened to your Pyramid Scheme in P4P that you were thinking of starting in KIev? I guess you couldn't find interested mongers willing to pay US$150 / hour to join in your Realistic Pyramid Fun in Eastern Europe.

Climaxnow. I think you need to sort out your condition, which is called P V E.

Premature Verbal Ejaculation.

[QUOTE=Jojosun; 1283903]Read what you posted in the Kharkov thread.

"My apologies JoJo! I have to stop wizzing through the threads and replying without any thought. (smiley)"[/QUOTE]Climaxnow's public apology on the Kharkov thread. Gotcha.

This is your condition that I was referring to in my post below (. PVE) , which you need to sort out when you reply to me.

[QUOTE=Philosophus1; 1284039]Folks,

I posted my story, which is entirely factual, as a way of thanking the much more prolific contributors than I happen to be one. I wanted to entertain you in a style that I find extremely arousing while writing, which is respectful to the diev and still explicit, graphic and pornographic enough to express my view on things physical. I know I am not the only one who ticks along these lines.[/QUOTE]Come on man, who you kidding! Philosophus1 and LJ just posted back to back reports. There written English are exact foot prints of each other. In two years as a member, I never flamed, challenged, or harassed a member until it dawned on me that LJ's reports were bogus. All I'm asking for is the reports here be authentic. It's obvious your not a New Yorker that travels out to KIev for four day trips. Its also obvious that you are in fact out on the ground in Europe. Why don't you join the ISG team and share information from what ever shade of monger you are.

[QUOTE=LilJoey; 1283828]I'm curious why you are asking your question about Romanian escorts on the Kiev thread? Are you a Romanian escort trying to get noticed? My experience with Romanian escorts on the Internet is that all pictures are fake, much like in Kiev. Furthermore, the few occasions I did try a Romanian escort to my hotel while in Bucharest, the girl who arrived was a hardcore upseller and cheat. I do not recommend Romanian escorts inside Romania (some on the Bucharest thread of ISG report ok results with an agency called damedelux). However, I Do love the look of Romanian women. And for those who share that enjoyment of the beauty of Romanian women, I would recommend visiting the FKK clubs Palace and Oase in the immediate environs of Frankfurt, Germany. There one will find a staff containing a large percentage of girls from Romania and more recently Moldova (although they may have meant Moldavia, a principality inside Romania) , as well as girls from Bulgaria, Poland, Germany and other origins. The Romanian girls I have met in the FKK's were for the most part, gorgeous and very nice, if you treat them well. However, Some guys who approach them with a very cheap attitude of wanting the girl to give everything she has for a short 50 Euro session have gotten less than great results. It's because there is nothing that will get a Romanian going (male or female) than the sense that someone is trying to take advantage of them. Then, watch out! They are very adept at trying to get the upper hand. But if you approach these girls with respect and generosity and tell them upfront that you want to be good to them and give them a longer session of at least an hour, and longer if they are very good, then you probably won't get a better session from anyone. Because you have then turned around the motivations of the girl from trying to get the better of you, into trying to please you more. All I can say when thinking of the wonderful Romanian girls I have been with in Germany are words like,"sizzling","magnificent" and "wonderful". My dreams are still filled with images from some of the best moments I have shared with some Romanian girls in the FKK's whom I would consider to be 9's at least, and I keep going back to see some of those same girls, one in particular at FKK Goldentime in Vienna, Austria. So I say, Romanian escorts are great, but only outside Romania, in the FKK's, or perhaps other locations (I'm thinking of some Romanian girls I met in Madrid, Spain in clubs like Flowers Park and Factory Air, who were pretty hot also.)

LJ[/QUOTE]Hi LJ,

Do you remember the girl's name in golden time in Vienna?

Thanks,

Naykan

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1283824]I have been dating Eastern Europeans for twenty years.[/QUOTE]This makes me ponder about the pre-internet era, the era where you actually needed balls to travel halfway around the world without even one single info about where to find girls (and nor about where to find anything in fact). That was a thrill, but now the thrill is gone, unless you go beyond the Urals or to the Stans. Today people are over-informed, and it seems that they need even more and more info than the tons that they already have. I can't remember how many times sex-weaned friends questionned me about where to go in FSU while drooling on their shirts. Fucking insecure suckers. Get some balls. First time I was in Brasil, it was in Belem, I was on my own, it was in 1988, and I took no advice before.

Just a thought. Maybe too much Chardonnais for lunch. (smile)

I still. And once again. Dare to ask if there is any young girls with 0 size tits around in Kiev? I would love to recieve some useful info. PM me please, and I will also share my adress book with you!

[QUOTE=Prosal; 1284181]This makes me ponder about the pre-internet era, the era where you actually needed balls to travel halfway around the world without even one single info about where to find girls (and nor about where to find anything in fact). That was a thrill, but now the thrill is gone, unless you go beyond the Urals or to the Stans. Today people are over-informed, and it seems that they need even more and more info than the tons that they already have. I can't remember how many times sex-weaned friends questionned me about where to go in FSU while drooling on their shirts. Fucking insecure suckers. Get some balls. First time I was in Brasil, it was in Belem, I was on my own, it was in 1988, and I took no advice before.

Just a thought. Maybe too much Chardonnais for lunch. (smile) [/QUOTE]I did not have to travel at all. In the mid 90's a million poles were given visa's to enter the US and most landed in my home town. After that smaller waves of Russians, Romanians, Lithuanians, and Ukranians also followed. The stock of women the first ten years was amazing. Most were educated, had no opportunity in there homeland, and had no interest in dating guys of there own nationality. Great time for me because I was young, college educated, and financially secure. Unfortunately, my party is over here and I have to start actually traveling to Eastern Europe.

[QUOTE=Prosal; 1284181]This makes me ponder about the pre-internet era, the era where you actually needed balls to travel halfway around the world without even one single info about where to find girls (and nor about where to find anything in fact). That was a thrill, but now the thrill is gone, unless you go beyond the Urals or to the Stans. Today people are over-informed, and it seems that they need even more and more info than the tons that they already have. I can't remember how many times sex-weaned friends questionned me about where to go in FSU while drooling on their shirts. Fucking insecure suckers. Get some balls. First time I was in Brasil, it was in Belem, I was on my own, it was in 1988, and I took no advice before.

Just a thought. Maybe too much Chardonnais for lunch. (smile) [/QUOTE]Prosal,

Are you drinking the House wine?

Chardonay in London is so yesterday, but I still like it though. A lot of English Ladttes on the pull weekends drink industrial quantities of it.

They can drink a lot of men under the table.

Yes, you are right about the times when you needed balls to hit EE countries.

The trouble is I had a lot of balls when I was a care free student, and did a lot of them. Got me in for a lot of questioning though, when I got back when they looked at all the EE visas stamped in my passport. Yes, before the wall came down.

I only got on the internet thing seeking info in the last 7 years.

The thing is before the internet, you just needed to hit the very few touristy clubs, or bars in First class hotels, and you are home and dry.

Prague, you needed to head to Lucerna Club, it was the River Palace of those days.

It was mainly German sex tourists who drove from across the border.

Warsaw, there was a place called white crocodile or something. In the old town.

None of the EE countries at the time had In Call apartments where you went for sex.

Hookers were only doing the bars and clubs of First Class hotels. A lot of them were working for the secret police. I never had hookers at the time, didn't need to, with all the young girls around at the time. They found me.

Had my first minor STD from one or more of them. Freaked the shit out of me at the time.

I never thought of going to the Ukraine in those days. I don't think I ever met anyone who said he went there.

Russia and FSU would have been too much to explain had I gone there.

I only heard about Kiev and Ukraine when I joined ISG about 4 years ago. And only decided to hit Kiev, when Wizz air started flying there, and the UAH exchange became VFM. But if you paid sky high Air fares and 4 Uah to the US$, I would not have considered it.

The ISG info came in very handy for me, but I still did Kiev my way.

Stayed and still do at hotels. Got my first girl through Kiev Post, and had.

Great time at massage places.

My best discovery was on Flirt, altough they say Flirt and Mamba are the same.

Talking about Brasil, I was there in January 89. Stayed at hotel Excelsior on Cobacabana, close to HELP disco club. Well that was one of the best clubs I have ever been to, Pity closed last few years.

Did you try it?

You are drinking Chardonay and I am on the Perry, not far from the Lycee.

Bloody French, you can't get away from them. I smell them miles away with all that Garlic, LOL. .

Au Revoir from Sexy London.

.

[QUOTE=Prosal; 1284181]This makes me ponder about the pre-internet era, the era where you actually needed balls to travel halfway around the world without even one single info about where to find girls (and nor about where to find anything in fact). That was a thrill, but now the thrill is gone, unless you go beyond the Urals or to the Stans. Today people are over-informed, and it seems that they need even more and more info than the tons that they already have. I can't remember how many times sex-weaned friends questionned me about where to go in FSU while drooling on their shirts. Fucking insecure suckers. Get some balls. First time I was in Brasil, it was in Belem, I was on my own, it was in 1988, and I took no advice before.

Just a thought. Maybe too much Chardonnais for lunch. (smile) [/QUOTE].

Prosal. Are you drinking the House wine?

Chardonay in London is so yesterday, but I still like it though. A lot of English Ladttes on the pull weekends drink industrial quantities of it.

They can drink a lot of men under the table.

Yes, you are right about the times when you needed balls to hit EE countries.

The trouble is I had a lot of balls when I was a care free student, and did a lot of them. Got me in for a lot of questioning though, when I got back when they looked at all the EE visas stamped in my passport. Yes, before the wall came down.

I only got on the internet thing seeking info in the last 7 years.

The thing is before the internet, you just needed to hit the very few touristy clubs, or bars in First class hotels, and you are home and dry.

Prague, you needed to head to Lucerna Club, it was the River Palace of those days.

It was mainly German sex tourists who drove from across the border.

Warsaw, there was a place called white crocodile or something. In the old town.

None of the EE countries at the time had In Call apartments where you went for sex.

Hookers were only doing the bars and clubs of First Class hotels. A lot of them were working for the secret police. I never had hookers at the time, didn't need to, with all the young girls around at the time. They found me.

Had my first minor STD from one or more of them. Freaked the shit out of me at the time.

I never thought of going to the Ukraine in those days. I don't think I ever met anyone who said he went there.

Russia and FSU would have been too much to explain had I gone there.

I only heard about Kiev and Ukraine when I joined ISG about 4 years ago. And only decided to hit Kiev, when Wizz air started flying there, and the UAH exchange became VFM. But if you paid sky high Air fares and 4 Uah to the US$, I would not have considered it.

The ISG info came in very handy for me, but I still did Kiev my way.

Stayed and still do at hotels. Got my first girl through Kiev Post, and had.

Great time at massage places.

My best discovery was on Flirt, altough they say Flirt and Mamba are the same.

Talking about Brasil, I was there in January 89. Stayed at hotel Excelsior on Cobacabana, close to HELP disco club. Well that was one of the best clubs I have ever been to, Pity closed last few years.

Did you try it?

You are drinking Chardonay and I am on the Perry, not far from the Lycee.

Bloody French, you can't get away from them. I smell them miles away with all that Garlic, LOL. .

Au Revoir from Sexy London.

.

[QUOTE=Naykan; 1284177]Hi LJ,

Do you remember the girl's name in golden time in Vienna?

Thanks,

Naykan[/QUOTE]Check my prior posts on the Vienna thread. I remember writing about my first session with her.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1283824]Please read through my 211 posts and tell me what venue I am shilling. I joined ISG to talk to real people about the hobby. I am not interested in reading fairy tales designed to lure men to Kiev. The stooge posting on this thread knows well that once you have arrived into town you will naturally go where it is easiest to find prostitutes. For example, take this post by Philophosus1, its a complete fabrication by you know who. His only intent is to create an illusion of easy to find girlfriends in Kiev. He wants you to jump on that plane thinking beautiful met girls will be knocking on your door. I had read enough of this posters reports to realize he is not a monger. No matter how well written he is, he simply has no talent in relaying himself as an authentic monger. His stuff is so bush league superficial that it is easy to spot on the thread.[/QUOTE]I certainly find all these bush league superficial posts annoying and deceitful because as you put it well: they give men an illusion and lure men to Kiev thinking it's easy to find good-looking cheap fucks or freebie GFE sex. Example, if you look back at posts in 2009 and 2010, you'll find fantasy mongers in their 40's claiming they had fucked 5 girls in one day and popped 7 times, and they continued this streak for 5 days. I think Uke Boy was one of the few found these posts bush league. The Kiev forum at times is very tainted by these illusory posts.

[QUOTE=Harry Hardman; 1284273]I certainly find all these Bush league superficial posts annoying and deceitful because as you put it well: they give men an illusion and lure men to Kiev thinking it's easy to find good-looking cheap fucks or freebie GFE sex. .[/QUOTE].

Harry LOL Now. I know where you are coming from?

Luring mongers instead to go to that Well Known Strip Club. US$ 100 an / Hour, right. LOL.

Tell you what though. Honeslty the first thing I am going to do, when I am heading back to Kiev, is to head to it and book myself one girl that I fancy.

But first I will get her to sign a piece of paper with just, D A the, to all the things that we agree on in the club.

Never took out a girl from there before, although I go there on few nights.

Time 4 me to dip my dick into their waters and see what all the fuss was all about.

All it means that I need to cut a bit on my drinking expenses in London, and save some money for a Take out from there.

And this is no illusion, even I am now on the second bottle.

See you there.

So many people discussing here clubs, bars, girls etc but who is visiting Kiev? Just kidding. Just back from Kiev and again there from Friday on for one week. So Climax, Liljoy and all the others. Let's have a beer and discuss it more personally. First time I go on my own and don't have one single business meeting.

PM me.

[QUOTE=Harry Hardman;1284273]I certainly find all these bush league superficial posts annoying and deceitful because as you put it well: they give men an illusion and lure men to Kiev thinking it's easy to find good-looking cheap fucks or freebie GFE sex. Example, if you look back at posts in 2009 and 2010, you'll find fantasy mongers in their 40's claiming they had fucked 5 girls in one day and popped 7 times, and they continued this streak for 5 days. I think Uke Boy was one of the few found these posts bush league. The Kiev forum at times is very tainted by these illusory posts.[/QUOTE]Honestly what Fun the Kiev thread is becoming. Really enjoying it.

Quote Originally Posted by Climaxnow [View Original Post]

Hi EC, don't be fooled into visiting Rio from the deceptive intel posted on this thread. Kirch is a creation of LJ to promote the club. As a matter of fact, here are all of the other LJ creations: Harry Hardman, Jack 2004, Poker Player, Limarian, Pedro Toronja, Ronaldninja. Quote.

Hello H H.

Get your Latino Chums, Pedro Toronja, and Portugese Ronaldninja, over here, and the all the Tapas and Sangria is on me.

So when I get my Ass to Rio, the drinks are on you, so I can afford the US$300 for 3 hours top of the range girl. I have my own rating system.

I can't do both.

I am sure you Understand, LOL

[QUOTE=Harry Hardman;1284273]I certainly find all these bush league superficial posts annoying and deceitful because as you put it well: they give men an illusion and lure men to Kiev thinking it's easy to find good-looking cheap fucks or freebie GFE sex. Example, if you look back at posts in 2009 and 2010, you'll find fantasy mongers in their 40's claiming they had fucked 5 girls in one day and popped 7 times, and they continued this streak for 5 days. I think Uke Boy was one of the few found these posts bush league. The Kiev forum at times is very tainted by these illusory posts.[/QUOTE]I think I know that you are referring to Hunter Dave.

To be fair to the guy, I never met him. But on this thread he did put a hell lot of info into it. He also helped a lot of newbies, and a lot of them got on here and thanked him.

He posted links +Photos of actual girls. And he is the only one I exchanged Girls digits with. None of the girls were an illusion about sex In Kiev. .

Simply because they were hookers, which was the thing I was looking for. .

Where he got flamed was the part about the freebies, and how many times he popped. .

But no one here is in a position to verify those claims, and frankly doesn't bother me in the least.

What we get now on the Kiev thread is a lot Illusory Mongers with Multiple Usernames, who pop up here, every now and then before they disappear, only to pop up later under another name.

But the scripts the dates, the style gives their game away.

I find this fucking annoying, where someone I thinks he is taking the [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] out of us.

They end up losing all credibilty by doing it.

[QUOTE=Harry Hardman;1284273]I certainly find all these bush league superficial posts annoying and deceitful because as you put it well: they give men an illusion and lure men to Kiev thinking it's easy to find good-looking cheap fucks or freebie GFE sex. Example, if you look back at posts in 2009 and 2010, you'll find fantasy mongers in their 40's claiming they had fucked 5 girls in one day and popped 7 times, and they continued this streak for 5 days. I think Uke Boy was one of the few found these posts bush league. The Kiev forum at times is very tainted by these illusory posts.[/QUOTE]I think I know that you are referring to Hunter Dave.

To be fair to the guy, I never met him. But on this thread he did put a hell lot of info into it. He also helped a lot of newbies, and a lot of them got on here and thanked him.

He posted links +Photos of actual girls. And he is the only one I exchanged Girls digits with. None of the girls were an illusion about sex In Kiev. .

Simply because they were hookers, which was the thing I was looking for. .

Where he got flamed was the part about the freebies, and how many times he popped. .

But no one here is in a position to verify those claims, and frankly doesn't bother me in the least.

What we get now on the Kiev thread is a lot Illusory Mongers with Multiple. Usernames, who pop up here, every now and then before they disappear, only to pop up later under another name.

But the scripts the dates, the style gives their game away.

I find this fucking annoying, where someone I thinks he is taking the [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] out of us.

They end up losing all credibilty by doing it.

[QUOTE=Naykan; 1284177]Hi LJ,

Do you remember the girl's name in golden time in Vienna?

Thanks,

Naykan[/QUOTE]Her name was Joanna, a very common Romanian name.

[QUOTE=Kirch; 1284292]So many people discussing here clubs, bars, girls etc but who is visiting Kiev? Just kidding. Just back from Kiev and again there from Friday on for one week. So Climax, Liljoy and all the others. Let's have a beer and discuss it more personally. First time I go on my own and don't have one single business meeting.

PM me.[/QUOTE]Hello Kirch,

Could you post your Kiev experiance on the thread?

Thank you.

[QUOTE=Philosophus1;1283510]This story is entirely true. I respect the courage of this young Ukrainian diev. In fact, I really like her.[/QUOTE]Before you do something rash, it might be a good idea to look at the dark side of the equation. There is a story in today's Kiev Post about a Kiev stripper who married a Brit and then quite likely had him killed. Since this is not a court, do I think she ordered the hit in order to get his money since it is likely he figured her all out and was going to dump her.

Here's the link and there are lots of articles and photos of the girl when you Google her name.

[url]http://www.kyivpost.com/news/ukraine/detail/128101/[/url]

The girls here, all of them P4P or not, have a way to get inside your head if you allow it. It is the P4P ones that can truly be dangerous since they have learned how to be completely manipulative and you won't know it until it is too late. In the case of the Brit in the article, he probably realized it about one millisecond before the car hit him.

Be very very careful when falling for a pro be they strippers or mamba girls or salon girls.

Unfortunately too many guys think that great sex = a great relationship. Great sex is just great sex and nothing more, paid or not.

All the other things in a relationship take time to figure out.

[QUOTE=Jojosun; 1284298]Honestly what Fun the Kiev thread is becoming. Really enjoying it.

Quote Originally Posted by Climaxnow [View Original Post]

Hi EC, don't be fooled into visiting Rio from the deceptive intel posted on this thread. Kirch is a creation of LJ to promote the club. As a matter of fact, here are all of the other LJ creations: Harry Hardman, Jack 2004, Poker Player, Limarian, Pedro Toronja, Ronaldninja. Quote.

Hello H H.

Get your Latino Chums, Pedro Toronja, and Portugese Ronaldninja, over here, and the all the Tapas and Sangria is on me.

So when I get my Ass to Rio, the drinks are on you, so I can afford the US$300 for 3 hours top of the range girl. I have my own rating system.

I can't do both.

I am sure you Understand, LOL[/QUOTE]I will find out soon enough what is the story in ukraine. I will my experience in Kiev and Odessa. I will post my report by June 12 or 14.

[QUOTE=Uke Boy; 1284583]Before you do something rash, it might be a good idea to look at the dark side of the equation. There is a story in today's Kiev Post about a Kiev stripper who married a Brit and then quite likely had him killed. Since this is not a court, do I think she ordered the hit in order to get his money since it is likely he figured her all out and was going to dump her.

Here's the link and there are lots of articles and photos of the girl when you Google her name.

[url]http://www.kyivpost.com/news/ukraine/detail/128101/[/url]

The girls here, all of them P4P or not, have a way to get inside your head if you allow it. It is the P4P ones that can truly be dangerous since they have learned how to be completely manipulative and you won't know it until it is too late. In the case of the Brit in the article, he probably realized it about one millisecond before the car hit him.

Be very very careful when falling for a pro be they strippers or mamba girls or salon girls.

Unfortunately too many guys think that great sex = a great relationship. Great sex is just great sex and nothing more, paid or not.

All the other things in a relationship take time to figure out.[/QUOTE]Never ever mix girls from the sex trade into your personal life. Even with strippers, its so easy for gullible men to justify in there head that the girl had to do it to pay for school or other needs. Ukranian devs are the masters of all conniving manipulators. That being said, plenty of good ones.

[QUOTE=Harry Hardman;1284273]I certainly find all these bush league superficial posts annoying and deceitful because as you put it well: they give men an illusion and lure men to Kiev thinking it's easy to find good-looking cheap fucks or freebie GFE sex. Example, if you look back at posts in 2009 and 2010, you'll find fantasy mongers in their 40's claiming they had fucked 5 girls in one day and popped 7 times, and they continued this streak for 5 days. I think Uke Boy was one of the few found these posts bush league. The Kiev forum at times is very tainted by these illusory posts.[/QUOTE]Harry aka LJ, I noticed that you also mongered in Warsaw. Could you be so kind and tell me the difference between Kiev and Warsaw mongering. I promise to take a break from the accusations if an informative reply is posted.

Hi Climaxnow,

First time I see a sensible comment from you. I will heed your advice. My story is entirely true nevertheless. When I wrote I am not a monger, I meant to tell that I date ladies, have dated some from Russia, which is easy due to my language skills and frequent travels, but I have not succumbed to supporting a diev for sex-first until last week. And that is also the truth.

Re. Your enquiry. I also like the slimmer skinnier (short haired boyish gamin type actually is most exciting) version and have found that in general Kiev women tend on the smaller size anyway. I suggest you spend a little time at the Red Lion strip club on Kreschatic, where you can have a few lap dances before you make your selection.

Entrance is £10 and £5 a dance

Hi Ronaldinjo.

We haven't seen any photos of Olya or a link to her mamba profile.

How do we know she was better than any stripper or a 9 as you put it.

Although you never took out any girls, what were the best looking girls in the stripclubs you visited?

[QUOTE=Immy007; 1284667]Hi Ronaldinjo.

We haven't seen any photos of Olya or a link to her mamba profile.

How do we know she was better than any stripper or a 9 as you put it.

Although you never took out any girls, what were the best looking girls in the stripclubs you visited?[/QUOTE]Hello pal, as I have mentioned olya for me she was the best, for me she was 9-10, but for you she could be 7 or 8.

I didn't take any dancers from Rio bacause of her mostly. In my age (50) I can't bang everyday 3-4 times, its too much for me unfortunatelly. I was a lot of hours with olya and she drained me.

But I saw some attractive girls in Rio and dalls. I found Lj and Muddies comments about girls and there beauty mostly to be mostly true (although beauty is on the eye of beholder as Lj says and I tend to agree with him). Katya, Sofia, Margarita, Katarin, Tina, Marina, Leya, Zlatta, , Rosa, Vladislava and some other girls are nice, some are better facially some have better bodies, but girls are nice overall (about 8 in my opinion, some little bit less, some little bit more) , unfortunately not all are available for takeout. Also Dalls has some nice girls with great natural breasts to offer, although number of girls are less than in Rio, but you can see them in one room and no need to jump from room to room as in Rio. Haven't been in solid gold yet.

It would help us if boys will post informatively as LJ and Muddy did. When are you planning to come to Kiev?

[QUOTE=Uke Boy; 1284583]Before you do something rash, it might be a good idea to look at the dark side of the equation. There is a story in today's Kiev Post about a Kiev stripper who married a Brit and then quite likely had him killed. Since this is not a court, do I think she ordered the hit in order to get his money since it is likely he figured her all out and was going to dump her.

Here's the link and there are lots of articles and photos of the girl when you Google her name.

[url]http://www.kyivpost.com/news/ukraine/detail/128101/[/url]

The girls here, all of them P4P or not, have a way to get inside your head if you allow it. It is the P4P ones that can truly be dangerous since they have learned how to be completely manipulative and you won't know it until it is too late. In the case of the Brit in the article, he probably realized it about one millisecond before the car hit him.

Be very very careful when falling for a pro be they strippers or mamba girls or salon girls.

Unfortunately too many guys think that great sex = a great relationship. Great sex is just great sex and nothing more, paid or not.

All the other things in a relationship take time to figure out.[/QUOTE]Thank you for bringing this article to our attention, Uke Boy. I feel for the poor bastard. However, I don't think this is indicitive of Ukraine or Ukrainian women. This story could happen and has happened all over the west, including Canada, and it does not always include a sex worker. I have met many women who were not sex workers yet can manipulate with the best of them, in North America and Eastern Europe.

Does this make Ukrainian sex workers more trustworthy? Not at all. However, to say 'the girls here' is not accurate, in my estimation. I think this situation would and has happened all over the world and it does not always include a former or current sex worker, in my opinion, anyway. Unfortunately, the successful relationships in the world that include a former sex worker don't make front page headlines. They make for whispers and quiet gossip.

Football games taking place sometime in June in Kiev. The city will be flooded with tourists affecting everything and everyone including apartment prices

Here is the dates from their website: "The final tournament will be hosted by Poland and Ukraine between 8 June and 1 July 2012."

Just came back from 3 days in Kiev with 1 day stop over in Frankfurt.

My connection flight from New York to Frankfurt was 2hrs delayed, I nearly missed my flight to Kiev. Once I got on my flight from Frankfurt to Kiev, plane was stuck on the runway for almost 2hrs, because of mechnical problems. Lufhansa airline really sucked.

I rented a nice clean apartment in center of Kiev from Best Kiev apartment service. Only problem I had with this apartment was there were no lights in the hallway to my apartment, so it was little challenging to unlock the door in the dark, when I compained to apartment manager, he simply said it's apartment owner's fault and there were nothing he can do about it, also when I request for some additional towels on second day, manager started to yell at me, telling me I should have pre-arrange it. Who ever said Sergey was a very helpful person was full of shit, in my 3 days of staying in the apartment, he never called once to check if everything was OK.

With all the running around in Frankfurt airport to catch my flight to Kiev and flight delays I was pretty much exhausted, so after quick meal and 2 hrs of sleep, I decided to go to Rio hoping for quick easy pick up and place was only 2 blocks from my apartment.

When I went in to Rio, girl at the front desk told me some bull shit about I have to go to sushi bar because upstairs bars was too crowded, after 5 mins I just ignored her and went upstairs anyway. She was right, for Thursday it was really packed. There was about 20 girls, most of them were 6-7s, maybe 5 were solid 8s and 3 9s. Most of the hot girls were busy with customers. I met fellow monger from Sweden and basically drank couple a beers and managed to get 3 lap dances from some of the 8s. Lap dances were pretty much lame, I wasn't allow to kiss or even suck their tits, after 2 hrs of this crap, I went back to my apartment.

Next day my friend from Germany arrived and insisted on going to Rio, I try to talk him out of it, but he wanted to see some of the dancers from his last trip, for some reason for Friday, it was lot less crowded than night before and lap dance were much better, all the girls let me suck on their tits and even one gave me a lfk during the lap dance. After serveral lap dances, I asked one of the manager to have to have a very hot dancer to joing me for a drink. She spoke good english and had very nice attitude so I decided to take her out.

This girl was solid 8 in looks and body. I have to say, I would rate her one of the best sex I ever had with WG. First round took 20mins and after 15mins of rest, we went for second round, that lasted for over 1hr of non stop sex, once I started to finger her and lick and eat her pussy, she started to moan, scream and went in to full orgasm, if she was faking, she should get a Oscar for her performance. She did almost everything I ask her to do and lots of dfk, but she would not give BBBJ, infact all the girls I ask for possible take out, they all said no to BBBJ.

Last night of the trip, we went to D'lux club. All this rumor about dress code in this club are bull shit, there were lots young guys in the club with jeans and T-shirt and some with sneakers. I never saw so many 9s and 10s in one place in my life, unfortunately place was so packed, I had hard time moving around, I suspected there were some WGs, but non would give any eye contact or even smile at you. After 2 hrs I left alone. I'm a very lazy monger, I don't like to work too hard to pick up girls. I find Kiev too much hassle for this monger, you really have to do lot's of work to pick up girls. I really miss Brazil during golden years. 2000-2006. Hopefully Brazillian Real will fall back to 3 to 1 in dollars. Kiev might be Ok for europeans, due to short distance, but from US, not worth the price and the hassle of long trip.

FKK palace still good as I remembered from 5 yrs ago. All the girls gave great BBBJ

[QUOTE=LilJoey;1284483]Her name was Joanna, a very common Romanian name.[/QUOTE]Oh my god! Joanna at Golden time in Vienna is my ATF. See my posts about her in that forum. She is a perfection in a female form.

[QUOTE=Vitrea;1284862]Oh my god! Joanna at Golden time in Vienna is my ATF. See my posts about her in that forum. She is a perfection in a female form.[/QUOTE]And I am sure there are many more men, in addition to you and me, who have also fallen in love / lust with her. Simply beautiful body, pretty face, sweet disposition, the whole package.

LJ

[QUOTE=Ronaldinjo; 1284754]Hello pal, as I have mentioned olya for me she was the best, for me she was 9-10, but for you she could be 7 or 8.

I didn't take any dancers from Rio bacause of her mostly. In my age (50) I can't bang everyday 3-4 times, its too much for me unfortunatelly. I was a lot of hours with olya and she drained me.

But I saw some attractive girls in Rio and dalls. I found Lj and Muddies comments about girls and there beauty mostly to be mostly true (although beauty is on the eye of beholder as Lj says and I tend to agree with him). Katya, Sofia, Margarita, Katarin, Tina, Marina, Leya, Zlatta, , Rosa, Vladislava and some other girls are nice, some are better facially some have better bodies, but girls are nice overall (about 8 in my opinion, some little bit less, some little bit more) , unfortunately not all are available for takeout. Also Dalls has some nice girls with great natural breasts to offer, although number of girls are less than in Rio, but you can see them in one room and no need to jump from room to room as in Rio. Haven't been in solid gold yet.

It would help us if boys will post informatively as LJ and Muddy did. When are you planning to come to Kiev?[/QUOTE]Ronaldinjo, he and others, including myself, we're curious to see Olya's mamba profile, to see what she looked like, in that you preferred her over some pretty good looking strippers. So, unless you are feeling that you want to keep her for yourself (which sometimes happens to a monger when he finds something he really likes) perhaps copy and paste the link to her profile.

I have an update for you on your quest to catch sight of the beauty known as Leela at Rio. I had sent her a message just sending regards and to stay in touch about a week ago. I got back a reply saying she now has a boyfriend. Apparently, this fair creature has moved on and is no longer working, having found herself a sponsor. This happened to me once before, after I fell for a girl at Rio named Rosa last year, who had the prettiest face and über sexy body, and then suddenly she moved on having found a boyfriend. It happens.

LJ

[url]http://flirt.com.ua/anketa.phtml?oid=586463025&hit=3[/url]

My driver anatolij just disappeared and I'll come to Kiev tomorrow. Anyone here who has contact to an english or german speaking driver? Not more than 10-15 USD an hour.

[QUOTE=LilJoey; 1284888]Ronaldinjo, he and others, including myself, we're curious to see Olya's mamba profile, to see what she looked like, in that you preferred her over some pretty good looking strippers. So, unless you are feeling that you want to keep her for yourself (which sometimes happens to a monger when he finds something he really likes) perhaps copy and paste the link to her profile.

I have an update for you on your quest to catch sight of the beauty known as Leela at Rio. I had sent her a message just sending regards and to stay in touch about a week ago. I got back a reply saying she now has a boyfriend. Apparently, this fair creature has moved on and is no longer working, having found herself a sponsor. This happened to me once before, after I fell for a girl at Rio named Rosa last year, who had the prettiest face and über sexy body, and then suddenly she moved on having found a boyfriend. It happens.

LJ[/QUOTE]About Olya, since I left she has deleted her profile, I'm in touch with her by skype and was quirious if she deleted her mamba profile for me or for some other reason. In fact I did never get relible answer from her. Maybe she has another profile in mamba, I don't care right now.

I thought about it that Leela got boyfriend or omething like this, bacause nobody knew her in Rio, unfortunately her spell in Rio was very short.

I'm worried about all those fans, especcially english fans in euro in Kiev, they could spoil everything for us. Do you have any guess what is going to be after euro2012 in Kiev?

[QUOTE=JerseyGuy123; 1284837]Just came back from 3 days in Kiev with 1 day stop over in Frankfurt.

My connection flight from New York to Frankfurt was 2hrs delayed, I nearly missed my flight to Kiev. Once I got on my flight from Frankfurt to Kiev, plane was stuck on the runway for almost 2hrs, because of mechnical problems. Lufhansa airline really sucked.

I rented a nice clean apartment in center of Kiev from Best Kiev apartment service. Only problem I had with this apartment was there were no lights in the hallway to my apartment, so it was little challenging to unlock the door in the dark, when I compained to apartment manager, he simply said it's apartment owner's fault and there were nothing he can do about it, also when I request for some additional towels on second day, manager started to yell at me, telling me I should have pre-arrange it. Who ever said Sergey was a very helpful person was full of shit, in my 3 days of staying in the apartment, he never called once to check if everything was OK.

With all the running around in Frankfurt airport to catch my flight to Kiev and flight delays I was pretty much exhausted, so after quick meal and 2 hrs of sleep, I decided to go to Rio hoping for quick easy pick up and place was only 2 blocks from my apartment.

When I went in to Rio, girl at the front desk told me some bull shit about I have to go to sushi bar because upstairs bars was too crowded, after 5 mins I just ignored her and went upstairs anyway. She was right, for Thursday it was really packed. There was about 20 girls, most of them were 6-7s, maybe 5 were solid 8s and 3 9s. Most of the hot girls were busy with customers. I met fellow monger from Sweden and basically drank couple a beers and managed to get 3 lap dances from some of the 8s. Lap dances were pretty much lame, I wasn't allow to kiss or even suck their tits, after 2 hrs of this crap, I went back to my apartment.

Next day my friend from Germany arrived and insisted on going to Rio, I try to talk him out of it, but he wanted to see some of the dancers from his last trip, for some reason for Friday, it was lot less crowded than night before and lap dance were much better, all the girls let me suck on their tits and even one gave me a lfk during the lap dance. After serveral lap dances, I asked one of the manager to have to have a very hot dancer to joing me for a drink. She spoke good english and had very nice attitude so I decided to take her out.

This girl was solid 8 in looks and body. I have to say, I would rate her one of the best sex I ever had with WG. First round took 20mins and after 15mins of rest, we went for second round, that lasted for over 1hr of non stop sex, once I started to finger her and lick and eat her pussy, she started to moan, scream and went in to full orgasm, if she was faking, she should get a Oscar for her performance. She did almost everything I ask her to do and lots of dfk, but she would not give BBBJ, infact all the girls I ask for possible take out, they all said no to BBBJ.

Last night of the trip, we went to D'lux club. All this rumor about dress code in this club are bull shit, there were lots young guys in the club with jeans and T-shirt and some with sneakers. I never saw so many 9s and 10s in one place in my life, unfortunately place was so packed, I had hard time moving around, I suspected there were some WGs, but non would give any eye contact or even smile at you. After 2 hrs I left alone. I'm a very lazy monger, I don't like to work too hard to pick up girls. I find Kiev too much hassle for this monger, you really have to do lot's of work to pick up girls. I really miss Brazil during golden years. 2000-2006. Hopefully Brazillian Real will fall back to 3 to 1 in dollars. Kiev might be Ok for europeans, due to short distance, but from US, not worth the price and the hassle of long trip.

FKK palace still good as I remembered from 5 yrs ago. All the girls gave great BBBJ[/QUOTE]Please could you tell me what was the name of the girl you took home from Rio? Or at least how did she look? (height, hair colour, face) thank you, with respect, Ronaldinjo

[QUOTE=Kirch;1285061]My driver anatolij just disappeared and I'll come to Kiev tomorrow. Anyone here who has contact to an english or german speaking driver? Not more than 10-15 USD an hour.[/QUOTE].

Going with the flow of what Climaxnow posted, LOL Why don't you contacr the same Taxi driver that Liljoey uses.

And you will save a lot of money if Liljoey also just happens to pop up in Kiev at the same time tomorrow. , LOL.

I doubt if Climaxnow will be flying from Chicgao to Kiev to meet up with you and LJ to discuss things personally like you suggested in your earlier post.

I guess climax will be very busy this weekend in Chicago, now the weather is getting warmer there in "The Windy City ". Now I know why they call it that, LOL.

Did one of our fellow members here meet this blondi? I am not sure if she is real. The communication with her is strange! [url]http://flirt.com.ua/blondi1810[/url] . Maybe someone has her private details or experience with her? She looks "wow".

[QUOTE=CanadianBoy; 1284776]Thank you for bringing this article to our attention, Uke Boy. I feel for the poor bastard. However, I don't think this is indicitive of Ukraine or Ukrainian women. This story could happen and has happened all over the west, including Canada, and it does not always include a sex worker. I have met many women who were not sex workers yet can manipulate with the best of them, in North America and Eastern Europe.

Does this make Ukrainian sex workers more trustworthy? Not at all. However, to say 'the girls here' is not accurate, in my estimation. I think this situation would and has happened all over the world and it does not always include a former or current sex worker, in my opinion, anyway. Unfortunately, the successful relationships in the world that include a former sex worker don't make front page headlines. They make for whispers and quiet gossip.[/QUOTE]I agree, Ukrainian women are not naturally more manipulative or venal than women elsewhere. Although one has to be careful of relationships with a pro anywhere.

Use pros for the services they provide, and value those that make it seem like it is a real GFE. Just remember that is their particular skill in creating an illusion, not the reality.

Uke Boy advises: "Be very very careful when falling for a pro be they strippers or mamba girls or salon girls."

Again, I think the operative word here is "pro". But Ukraine is filled with girls I would consider semi-pros, peddling their asses because they have to make ends meet, but hoping for a better life.

What is the difference between a pro and semi-pro? Hard to say, I guess it is a large grey zone from a girl who occasionally sleeps with a guy for money or shopping or trips, to girls who do it regularly while they work at their "official" daytime job.

My point is really that just because an EE girl has "sold" herself sometimes, I wouldn't hold that against her in terms of a different sort of relationship.

[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel;1285330]I agree, Ukrainian women are not naturally more manipulative or venal than women elsewhere.[/QUOTE]Ukrainian women are definitely more sneaky and conniving than their Russian cousins. Russian women are more honest, passionate and emotional.

[QUOTE=Ronaldinjo; 1285188]About Olya, since I left she has deleted her profile, I'm in touch with her by skype and was quirious if she deleted her mamba profile for me or for some other reason. In fact I did never get relible answer from her. Maybe she has another profile in mamba, I don't care right now.

I thought about it that Leela got boyfriend or omething like this, bacause nobody knew her in Rio, unfortunately her spell in Rio was very short.

I'm worried about all those fans, especcially english fans in euro in Kiev, they could spoil everything for us. Do you have any guess what is going to be after euro2012 in Kiev?[/QUOTE]Hi Ronaldinjo.

There are 16 countries competing in the tournament.

Why only English fans will spoil everything?

Are they different from all the other nations?

Just arrived and on my own here for the first time and no business meeting. 8 days to try out new things. Last time I met soemone here from ISG and he gave me contacts to Mamba girls. 3 days before arriving chatting and chatting, Jesus a lot of work. But finally I have some numbers and some dates with professionals and non professionals. Some don't talk about money, some from the first response. All of them between 7 and 9. I will start tonight and not even having started it's stress! So many numbers, so many names. I'm confused. Reports to follow.

I got my driver back, thank god he got not lost.

Let's start the games!

[QUOTE=Immy007; 1285351]Hi Ronaldinjo.

There are 16 countries competing in the tournament.

Why only English fans will spoil everything?

Are they different from all the other nations?[/QUOTE]They are known in whole world (especially soccer world) as furious mongers and are very much hated for it by most of the local citizens. Drink a lot, behave ugly (much worse than italians and even turks) spend huge amount of money (whole sallary) on women and don't have what to eat at home. A lot of portugueese women still are traumatized with their behaviour (several yers ago in euro 2004 in portugal). After many of them will see Kiev women, many of them will swap ukraine regardless soccer game and spoil it like they spoiled riga in late 90s and early 2000. Riga was once paradise that could evenly compete with Kiev, now it mostly sucks.

[QUOTE=Ronaldinjo;1285191]Please could you tell me what was the name of the girl you took home from Rio? Or at least how did she look? (height, hair colour, face) thank you, with respect, Ronaldinjo[/QUOTE]I not 100% sure about her name, but I think it was Leeza. She was brunette. 5 feet 4 inches tall. 100 lbs and 22 years old.

She made my trip to Kiev worth while. I know I said on previous post, I probaly won't go back to Kiev, but if I ever have another business trip to Frankfurt or Monger trip to Frankfurt FKKs, I might make quick trip to Kiev from Germany.

I want to check out D'lux club on weekdays when it's not so crazy, because I can't get some of those numous 9s and 10s out of my head.

Cab driver coming back to my apartment told me 50% of girls in the D'lux were working girls, I kind of doubt it, but I like to find out. This club could turn in to another Help disco in Brazil during early 90's when it was regular dance club with lots of semi pro students and none working girls who came in to Help to dance and have good time.

I also found out from my one monger I met in Kiev, if you have unlock Iphone with local sim chip, you could navigate around the city with Google map.

Jerseyguy

On this, my second trip to Kiev, I went to Dolls strip club and here is what I experienced on the evening of Monday May 21st. 2012. I had heard of Dolls club on ISG and some members claimed that the girls in this clube were fewer but were better quality compared to RIO girls. I arrived at about 12:30 AM and left before 2. 00 AM. The club had about 15 girls on duty and about 3 customers on my visit. The entrance is 100 UAH and small evians are 50 UAH. I was charged 210 UAH for one lady cocktail drink. The girls were mainly seated around the a couple of tables, smoking cigarettes while waiting for their trun to dance. On stage, the girls danced two dances and took their top off during the second dance. I was soon joined by a women in her mid 20s (vika) who danced (no contact) next to my table for me. I tipped her 100 UAH for her one minute fully clothed dance and invited her to sit down and bought her a drink. Vika told me that she is a university lecturer teaching History and works at the club part time. Vika explained to me the crazy menu, the table dance and private dances available at the club. Vika was charming all evening. I also inquired about take out which is available. I took a private dance from her which was frankly uninspiring and expensive (400 UAH for two dances). Vika allowed lite touching of her breast and that is about all! Vika did not do take out and when I pointed out a very cute 20 year old girl on stage, I was advised she was not available for a take out either. Another girl was presented which was available for take out but was not to my likings at all. Take out price: 300 USD for two hours and 500 USD. While I was conversing with Vika at my table, other girls would come uninvited and dance by my table. I would tip them each 50 UAH everytime to leave, making the mental note that I need to leave the club ASAP. My conclusion: I do not know how Dolls club stays in business; I must have caught them on a bad night and perhaps I got the most conservative girl at the club sit with me. I must be missing something but I have no intention of going back to Dolls anytime soon. I would dispute member assertion that Dolls girls has better looking girls than RIO or Penthouse. Overall, the quality of the talent seemed questionable to me on this evening. One other point, the stage was a fair distance away from my table and getting a close up of the dancer's face was not easy.

At about 12:30 Am on Tuesday May 22nd. 2012, I went to Shooters club. I arrived with a taxi and I noticed there were a few girls waiting outside to get in. I was shown unusual respect and courtesy by all the staff at shooters. Security wished me a good evening and the doorman opened the club door and invited me to go in. There is a100 UAH fee to get in and you are given a juice can and a receipt to get either whisky or vodka from the bar inside. I missed the KASSA sign and the hostess sweetly led me to the window to pay. The disco is not large and is terribly crowded. It was previously reported that the bar is owned by some Scottish folks but I have on good authority that it is now owned by a Turkish man called Ozzy! Certainly, our Turkish\Middle Eastern friends appeared to be well represnted in the Disco on this evening. The place if full of young, mostly beautiful girls dressed to impress but perhaps not the most appropriate place for a man of my age. Nevertheless, I tried to engage two different girls in dance and conversation who appeared unattended only to be ignored. I went upstairs to the resturant which I understand has good food but I was not hungry and I also went to the bar downstairs which was mostly empty. I had a beer and was also given a choice of vodka or whiskey. I suggest you go with the whiskey; the Vodka, I did not like. The beer which I paid for appeared to be rather less expensive than other clubs. There are many things I do not get about this club- I am sure that is a function of me being uninformed mostly. There is face control but I saw many girls and boys dressed in Jeans inside. In general, I did not get the fuss about this club. What distinguishes this club for some members, I can not tell.

On this trip, I also visited Vodka Bar which I had commented on previously. Well, it has not changed much! I went to Vodka Bar about 1. 00 AM on Wednesday May 23rd. 2012. The bar was very busy with lots of men; ratio about 2:1 Men to women. The going price appeared to be 300 USD per hour and 1000 USD for the night from one not so spectacular girl. I suspect most cities in the world have a VB- my opinion of this bar has not changed: men are paying world prices for professional girls in the worst sense of the word. I would not trust any of the girls I saw at VB and their contempt for their preys is ill conceived.

One other thing I noticed, I can confirm some street action around the McDonalds on Kreshtik. I was offered 100 USD for 2-3 hours but I did not accept as she appeared a bit too skanky even for me!

OOPS! I am sorry, I am referring to Budda bar on Krashtik on the paragraph below ofcourse and not Vodka Bar! I must still be jet lagged!

On this trip, I also visited Vodka Bar which I had commented on previously. Well, it has not changed much! I went to Vodka Bar about 1. 00 AM on Wednesday May 23rd. 2012. The bar was very busy with lots of men; ratio about 2:1 Men to women. The going price appeared to be 300 USD per hour and 1000 USD for the night from one not so spectacular girl. I suspect most cities in the world have a VB- my opinion of this bar has not changed: men are paying world prices for professional girls in the worst sense of the word. I would not trust any of the girls I saw at VB and their contempt for their preys is ill conceived.

One other thing I noticed, I can confirm some street action around the McDonalds on Kreshtik. I was offered 100 USD for 2-3 hours but I did not accept as she appeared a bit too skanky even for me![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Ronaldinjo;1285366]They are known in whole world (especially soccer world) as furious mongers and are very much hated for it by most of the local citizens. Drink a lot, behave ugly (much worse than italians and even turks) spend huge amount of money (whole sallary) on women and don't have what to eat at home. A lot of portugueese women still are traumatized with their behaviour (several yers ago in euro 2004 in portugal). After many of them will see Kiev women, many of them will swap ukraine regardless soccer game and spoil it like they spoiled riga in late 90s and early 2000. Riga was once paradise that could evenly compete with Kiev, now it mostly sucks.[/QUOTE]In terms of football violence, nobody beats the Argentineans, have you ever seen a Boca v Flamengo game? People get killed.

The Polish have a worse domestic football violence problem now than England in the "dark days" of the 80s.

But hey, don't let little things like facts get in the way of your inane and uninformed posting, you haven't previously.

The prices paid in Kiev are far too high. Ukraine is one of the poorest country in europe. There are only few countries in Europe where you pay more for sex! Strange. Also in Ukraine, espacielly Kiev and Odessa, the number of sex diseases is the highest in Europe. Its no secret for ukrainian citizens, that many women hide their fishy odor with cosmetics, and only idiots think it would be natural. No, boys, its an indicator of disease! By the way, why do you think so few ukrainian men don't lick ukrainian woman? Because they do not know how it goes? Hmmm. Think about it! The quality of girls has also decreased dramatically. Five years, even two years ago it was not as bad as this year. I can only recommend to learn the Russian language and not to pay every price only for a fuck. The price for a 8/10 should not be more than 600grw including Taxi, otherwise you've definitely done something wrong. But like my grandpa said: Every morning an idiot will wake up, you only have to find him. Note: I was in bucharest until yesterday and I had there sex for 50 to 100 lei per hour with realy beautiful young girls (8/10)!

Here is a link to a UK article. Interesting read. Egads! I used Elenamodels during that time period too! It could have been me. Or not.

"He said: 'My concern, is our relationship! All our conversations / mails have always been about the visa / shoes etc. At no time have you been interested about "US", or expressed any interest in developing the relationship. I do not sense any emotions from you, even though I have told you how I feel. '"

[url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2004869/Barry-Prings-mysterious-death-internet-bride-battling-family-1-5m-fortune.html#ixzz1PjAItiBa[/url]

Read more: [url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2004869/Barry-Prings-mysterious-death-internet-bride-battling-family-1-5m-fortune.html#ixzz1vzkrJu2G[/url]

[QUOTE=Uke Boy; 1284583]Before you do something rash, it might be a good idea to look at the dark side of the equation. There is a story in today's Kiev Post about a Kiev stripper who married a Brit and then quite likely had him killed. Since this is not a court, do I think she ordered the hit in order to get his money since it is likely he figured her all out and was going to dump her.

Here's the link and there are lots of articles and photos of the girl when you Google her name.

[url]http://www.kyivpost.com/news/ukraine/detail/128101/[/url]

The girls here, all of them P4P or not, have a way to get inside your head if you allow it. It is the P4P ones that can truly be dangerous since they have learned how to be completely manipulative and you won't know it until it is too late. In the case of the Brit in the article, he probably realized it about one millisecond before the car hit him.

Be very very careful when falling for a pro be they strippers or mamba girls or salon girls.

Unfortunately too many guys think that great sex = a great relationship. Great sex is just great sex and nothing more, paid or not.

All the other things in a relationship take time to figure out.[/QUOTE]

I usually do it for 20 days at a stretch. My goal is 3 girls a day.

[QUOTE=Harry Hardman;1284273]I certainly find all these bush league superficial posts annoying and deceitful because as you put it well: they give men an illusion and lure men to Kiev thinking it's easy to find good-looking cheap fucks or freebie GFE sex. Example, if you look back at posts in 2009 and 2010, you'll find fantasy mongers in their 40's claiming they had fucked 5 girls in one day and popped 7 times, and they continued this streak for 5 days. I think Uke Boy was one of the few found these posts bush league. The Kiev forum at times is very tainted by these illusory posts.[/QUOTE]

All you had to do is show up and speak English.

[QUOTE=Prosal; 1284181]This makes me ponder about the pre-internet era, the era where you actually needed balls to travel halfway around the world without even one single info about where to find girls (and nor about where to find anything in fact). That was a thrill, but now the thrill is gone, unless you go beyond the Urals or to the Stans. Today people are over-informed, and it seems that they need even more and more info than the tons that they already have. I can't remember how many times sex-weaned friends questionned me about where to go in FSU while drooling on their shirts. Fucking insecure suckers. Get some balls. First time I was in Brasil, it was in Belem, I was on my own, it was in 1988, and I took no advice before.

Just a thought. Maybe too much Chardonnais for lunch. (smile) [/QUOTE]

$100-$200 for each visit would have done it.

Take her shopping until she gives it up? Umm, ok.

Send me her mamba link and I'll pop her for $100 if I haven't already.

[QUOTE=Philosophus1;1283510]In summary, I was very lucky to to be able to sponsor a Met-Art quality type of diev 23 years younger than myself, had endless voyeuristic pleasure and she made me cum at will. Sustaining and sponsoring the gal's shopping hobby until she was exhausted broke down all her defenses. 2nd evening with a stranger and the bimbo orgasmed entirely naturally, in love and totally at ease. This story is entirely true. I respect the courage of this young Ukrainian diev. In fact, I really like her.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Densen;1285667]The prices paid in Kiev are far too high. Ukraine is one of the poorest country in europe. There are only few countries in Europe where you pay more for sex! Strange. Also in Ukraine, espacielly Kiev and Odessa, the number of sex diseases is the highest in Europe. Its no secret for ukrainian citizens, that many women hide their fishy odor with cosmetics, and only idiots think it would be natural. No, boys, its an indicator of disease! By the way, why do you think so few ukrainian men don't lick ukrainian woman? Because they do not know how it goes? Hmmm. Think about it! The quality of girls has also decreased dramatically. Five years, even two years ago it was not as bad as this year. I can only recommend to learn the Russian language and not to pay every price only for a fuck. The price for a 8/10 should not be more than 600grw including Taxi, otherwise you've definitely done something wrong. But like my grandpa said: Every morning an idiot will wake up, you only have to find him. Note: I was in bucharest until yesterday and I had there sex for 50 to 100 lei per hour with realy beautiful young girls (8/10)![/QUOTE]I couldn't agree more. The problem is that without the need for a visa Kiev is flooded with men arriving for sex tourism. That means things are becoming distorted and women are getting more money from certain guys then perhaps they should be. Not that I am so innocent. The first time I visited Kiev was in 2010 and I met a real beauty at River Palace and paid her 200 USD for two hours. I also don't regret it as she was quite lovely and very friendly. She also introduced me to her roomate who was equally as beautiful and asked for 200 over two hours. This might be more then I should have paid but in truth I was not aware of the average rate nor did I know at the time that ISG existed. However, had I only offered her 600 UAH for two hours she would have turned around and gone back to smoking her Parliament cigarettes and waited for another guy. I could have said no in the interest of forcing the market down, sure, but when you've had a few drinks, are completely attracted to a young woman and you have a healthy western bank account its almost unrealistic to expect a man to say 'No thanks' and go home alone.

That said, going back to threads from 2009, there might be 6 or 7 posts on the Kiev thread that are worth reading and actually teach a new monger anything. I learned more from 4 weeks of winging it in Kiev and Minsk then anything I learned on this thread. Some entertaining stories, however, it's basically men bickering, falso bravado, endless posts about a strip club and guys bragging about how many girls they can sleep with in 20 days. Terrible. If I met a new monger tomorrow who was heading to Kiev and he was not aware of this site I would be hesitant to recommend the Kiev thread to him. That's the honest truth. Some might disagree or even feel offended but I ask you to take a gander back at the threads from the last couple years before you make your reply. Having done that, I would be surprised if you would continue to feel affronted.

Actually it doesn't have quite a much to do with visas. Had more to do with the skyrocketing economy from 2004-2008. Kiev pretty much sucks as a tourist city and for the sex tourist. There are better and less expensive places to go in Europe for sex tourism. The FKK clubs come to mind.

Yeah, you are part of the problem CB. Just like taxis if a girl tosses out a high price you just move on to the next. In 2010 $200 for a few hours with a nine wasn't an outrageous price, wasn't a good one either.

The quality of the posting on ISG really started to go down hill after 2010. Most of the good contributors such as Dr Skank just lost interest. I remember how we promised in 2010 after the annual Super Bowl Ho Down to post about our experiences that night and to set up one for the next year. Of course it didn't help that River Palace set sail. Neither happened. From 2004-2010 I had some really off the chart great times. I continue to have a fantastic time everytime I go to Kiev but not quite the same.

If you want the low down on how it is in Kiev check out the RODs, postings by Irish Lad, Uke Boy and a select few others.

[QUOTE=CanadianBoy; 1285739]I couldn't agree more. The problem is that without the need for a visa Kiev is flooded with men arriving for sex tourism.

I could have said no in the interest of forcing the market down, sure, but when you've had a few drinks, are completely attracted to a young woman and you have a healthy western bank account its almost unrealistic to expect a man to say 'No thanks' and go home alone.

That said, going back to threads from 2009, there might be 6 or 7 posts on the Kiev thread that are worth reading and actually teach a new monger anything.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cruiser D;1285770]Actually it doesn't have quite a much to do with visas.[/QUOTE]Of course it does. Visa-free travels have enabled a lower caliber of monger to invade and spoil the playground. Kiev has becomed the new mecca for sex-tourism. That said, the top 10% of chasers in terms of "skills", appearance, style and cultural awareness can still have easy pickings, but with more work and more €€€ spent on entertainment, presents, courtship, ect, than in a Russian (Moscow included) or Stans city.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D;1285682]I usually do it for 20 days at a stretch. My goal is 3 girls a day.[/QUOTE]How else could you have built up your portfolio of 1200 girls on your Android Phone.

[QUOTE=CanadianBoy; 1285739]I couldn't agree more. .

That said, going back to threads from 2009, there might be 6 or 7 posts on the Kiev thread that are worth reading and actually teach a new monger anything. I learned more from 4 weeks of winging it in Kiev and Minsk then anything I learned on this thread. Some entertaining stories, however, it's basically men bickering, falso bravado, endless posts about a strip club and guys bragging about how many girls they can sleep with in 20 days. Terrible. If I met a new monger tomorrow who was heading to Kiev and he was not aware of this site I would be hesitant to recommend the Kiev thread to him. That's the honest truth. Some might disagree or even feel offended but I ask you to take a gander back at the threads from the last couple years before you make your reply. Having done that, I would be surprised if you would continue to feel affronted.[/QUOTE].

I got on this thread in 2009. The only thing I learned from it was about River Palace and the prices asked by the girls.

Everything about Kiev from the moment I landed there until I left in sept 2009, I had to find out for myself. And as soon as I got back to London, I posted a detailed guide to newbies.

I happen to believe, that I either put up or shut up

What you s aid above is the honest truth.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D;1285682]I usually do it for 20 days at a stretch. My goal is 3 girls a day.[/QUOTE]You're a more credible man. With more than a thousand back and calls on your phone, the goal of 3 girls a day for 20 days at a stretch is plausible. If you're over 40 and cum 3 times each day for 20 days at a stretch, it'd be pretty impressive too. Sometimes, I cum 3 times in one hour in good pussy and with good bbbj, getting the job done in an hour with no talking and other bullshit. What I usually do is to eat lots of meat to get the cum production going nonstop, especially when I meet with female vacuum cleaners. They really suck you dry.

[QUOTE=Prosal;1285779]Of course it does. Visa-free travels have enabled a lower caliber of monger to invade and spoil the playground. Kiev has becomed the new mecca for sex-tourism. That said, the top 10% of chasers in terms of "skills", appearance, style and cultural awareness can still have easy pickings, but with more work and more €€€ spent on entertainment, presents, courtship, ect, than in a Russian (Moscow included) or Stans city.[/QUOTE].

Fully agree with Prosal on the above, except for the part on Russia. Simply because I feel I have lost the balls to try Russia as a monger.

I might try Kaliningrad though. If it gets too much there, then just head back on the bus to Gdansk Poland. Few hours ride on the bus. .

Also Kaliningrad is really less Russian than Russia Proper, more of a German feel to it. Because of its history.

. I think Canadian Boy might like it as well, being virgin territory for our hobby.

.

Visa Free Travel plus Budget airlines fucked up cities and towns all over EE countries. Prague and Warsaw were the Mecca for beautiful freebies, when being young, westerner and over there, was a Novelty in those days.

Now the typical monger there is the 3 Os, Overweight, Overpaid, and overthere.

Wait when the England Football Fans get a taste of UA pussies.

There were plently of low lifes in Ukraine before 2005. All a Westerner needed to get a visa was $100, a passport, two passport photos, fill out the application and mail the bundle to the nearest Ukrainian consulate. I dropped mine off at the one in NYC and picked it up two days later.

Remember the days of the 'romance tours' when hundreds of the CIS finest would should up to meet dozens of the western worlds not so finest?

I really don't see how Kiev has become the new mecca for sex tourism, nothing replaced Rest Town, nothing replaced River Palace. I think for the most part guys can go ho hunting less expensive in their own countries. I sponsor uni girls in Kiev for $100. I sponsor uni girls in Boston for $100. University cities are great. :)

[QUOTE=Prosal;1285779]Of course it does. Visa-free travels have enabled a lower caliber of monger to invade and spoil the playground. Kiev has becomed the new mecca for sex-tourism. That said, the top 10% of chasers in terms of "skills", appearance, style and cultural awareness can still have easy pickings, but with more work and more €€€ spent on entertainment, presents, courtship, ect, than in a Russian (Moscow included) or Stans city.[/QUOTE]

Dating sites, night clubs, walking around and daily interaction.

TBH, I should probably delete 600 numbers and add a new 600. :)

[QUOTE=Jojosun;1285787]How else could you have built up your portfolio of 1200 girls on your Android Phone.[/QUOTE]

You didn't read enough. Postings by Dr Skank, Uke Boy and a few other were epic and very informative.

And Jojo, I think CB is pointing his finger somewhat at you as far as useless posts go.

My crap to good information ratio has always been about the same, I do tend to go off on a tangent sometimes.

This forum when it was another forum (those three letters are blocked for some reason) was one of the reasons why I went to Kiev in late 2004.

[QUOTE=Jojosun; 1285792].

I got on this thread in 2009. The only thing I learned from it was about River Palace and the prices asked by the girls.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cruiser D;1285957]I sponsor uni girls in Kiev for $100 :)[/QUOTE]I believe you. Problem is not the "professional" skilled monger, but the hords of unskilled sex-weaned mongers who invade the playground, throw money at women (which spoils them a lot and globally spoils the scene) , much of it thrown straight out the window.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D; 1285958]Dating sites, night clubs, walking around and daily interaction.

TBH, I should probably delete 600 numbers and add a new 600. .[/QUOTE]Not questioning your numbers on the list, but that I can easily do it in London, or Washington, DC.

Turn up at Josephene Club, DC and I will show you how.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D; 1285962]You didn't read enough. Postings by Dr Skank, Uke Boy and a few other were epic and very informative.[/QUOTE]Frankly I go for direct factual info. Like specific names of clubs, prices, taxis, info etc.

I am not into reading long erotic postes.

Uke Boy (I like to think of him now as a Friend that I never met) gave me a real Bollocking on the open forum here, when I asked him, What was the Meaning Of Salons.

Then he told me to read " BORAT 69" posts and do excactly as he said.

And there was no way 4me doing it the (BORAT 69) way, with all the $$$$ he said he spent there

. For me that defeats the whole object of getting my ass to Kiev in the first place.

.

I guess UkeBoy thought that my Pockets were as deep as BORAT's 69.

BTW, where is BORAT 69, Asian Chaos. .

Yes, UkeBoy is the senior with the expert factual knowledge of the Kiev and Ukraine scene, without the Bragging. This is typical British Modesty for you.

Hope he is settled in his new dream job, that he told us about.

Irish Lad was the senior who enlightend me on what sponsorship meant, and how it differed from straight forward Prostitution. .

And if it wasn't for him deciphering that Dasha wasn't a Hooker, I wouldn't have met her. .

As for you CD, in all my years here on this thread, I learned (Fuck All) from you in 2009 and (Fuck All) in 2012. .

Now back to my Meat Joint and Bottle of Strong English Perry, chatting with more Old Gits in my local Bar. .

Have you tried a strong Perry?

Hi Guys,

I see that some of yo have a sound knowledge of the Ukrainian girls!

I'll be there in June for a fortnight during the Euro, and I'm looking for a couple of amateur / semi-pro girls to help my journey be successfull.

I like slim girls. 20-25, GFE, very pretty of course. As for sex, I like blowjob expertise.)

Anyway, thanks a lot for taking the time to read me, and maybe answer. And if some of you are in Kiev then, maybe we can talk about this in real!

Regards

[QUOTE=Prosal;1285779]Of course it does. Visa-free travels have enabled a lower caliber of monger to invade and spoil the playground. Kiev has becomed the new mecca for sex-tourism. That said, the top 10% of chasers in terms of "skills", appearance, style and cultural awareness can still have easy pickings, but with more work and more €€€ spent on entertainment, presents, courtship, ect, than in a Russian (Moscow included) or Stans city.[/QUOTE].

We should start worrying when the UA Nationals get VISA FREE to travel to EU countries.

I posted a link about such talk, about 2 and a half years ago, in response to Reiner Otto. .

At the time there was talk about waiving the Visa for UA nationals to enable them to cross over to Poland for Euro football in June.

And if this was a success, then there was further talk of extending it beyond the Euro Championship.

Albania, Bosnia as well as Serbia and Croatia, all their citizens now enjoy travel to EU countries, without needing Visas first.

I argued in my post then, that if Albanians who hail from one of the poorest countries in Europe travel Visa FRee, then its only logical that sooner rather than later, Ukrainians will follow.

Ukraine apart from its beautiful girls, has anormous potential for the EU.

If it wasn't for East V west divide within Ukraine itself and Russia next door.

Would love to see UA girls in London , the men can go to Paris, LOL.

[QUOTE=Prosal;1285779]Of course it does. Visa-free travels have enabled a lower caliber of monger to invade and spoil the playground. Kiev has becomed the new mecca for sex-tourism. That said, the top 10% of chasers in terms of "skills", appearance, style and cultural awareness can still have easy pickings, but with more work and more €€€ spent on entertainment, presents, courtship, ect, than in a Russian (Moscow included) or Stans city.[/QUOTE].

We should start worrying when the UA Nationals get VISA FREE to travel to EU countries.

I posted a link about such talk, about 2 and a half years ago, in response to Reiner Otto. .

At the time there was talk about waiving the Visa for UA nationals to enable them to cross over to Poland for Euro football in June.

And if this was a success, then there was further talk of extending it beyond the Euro Championship.

Albania, Bosnia as well as Serbia and Croatia, all their citizens now enjoy travel to EU countries, without needing Visas first.

I argued in my post then, that if Albanians who hail from one of the poorest countries in Europe travel Visa FRee, then its only logical that sooner rather than later, Ukrainians will follow.

Ukraine apart from its beautiful girls, has anormous potential for the EU.

If it wasn't for East V west divide within Ukraine itself and Russia next door.

Would love to see UA girls in LONDON, the men can go To PARIS, LOL.

With regard to Visa Free, re above countries, this was for countires in the EU that signed the Schingen visa scheme. The UK is not a member, it has its own border contorls. This hasn't stopped rif raffs from Eastern Europe as well as Albanian and Kosovan gangs from setting up in the Uk & LOndon.

Croatia and Serbia are now candidate members to join the EU.

[QUOTE=Prosal;1285779]Of course it does. Visa-free travels have enabled a lower caliber of monger to invade and spoil the playground. Kiev has becomed the new mecca for sex-tourism. That said, the top 10% of chasers in terms of "skills", appearance, style and cultural awareness can still have easy pickings, but with more work and more €€€ spent on entertainment, presents, courtship, ect, than in a Russian (Moscow included) or Stans city.[/QUOTE]Exactly! It has a lot to do with the visa. The best example is Minsk and Kiev, two cities very close to one another yet very different for mongering. Kiev is overwrought with sex tourist compared to the Minsk. There are a few reasons for this, I am sure, but the fact Ukraine is visa free and Belarus is not plays a major role.

[QUOTE=Densen;1285667]Note: I was in bucharest until yesterday and I had there sex for 50 to 100 lei per hour with realy beautiful young girls (8/10)![/QUOTE]And yet not one report about it on the Bucharest thread. If one were so inclined, one might easily call bullsh*t to such a claim.

[QUOTE=CanadianBoy;1286048]Exactly! It has a lot to do with the visa. The best example is Minsk and Kiev, two cities very close to one another yet very different for mongering. Kiev is overwrought with sex tourist compared to the Minsk. There are a few reasons for this, I am sure, but the fact Ukraine is visa free and Belarus is not plays a major role.[/QUOTE]It has to do with 1% of Ukrainian and Russians who makes 10x more money than average Mongers. Before 2005 there were very few locals who could afford or willing to spend big money to sponsor those 9's and 10s at the Dance clubs like D'lux or even take out girls in strip clubs like Rio. Also for Americans, dollar went to shits. Prior to 2005, I was making at least 3 trips to Brasil a year, I was able to pick up 9's and 10s in their top clubs for $100 like Club Photo, now those same girls cost at least $300 plus. Also plane fare has almost double in past serveral years for us normal monger to travel.

[QUOTE=Lejude; 1286012]Hi Guys,

I see that some of yo have a sound knowledge of the Ukrainian girls!

I'll be there in June for a fortnight during the Euro, and I'm looking for a couple of amateur / semi-pro girls to help my journey be successfull.

I like slim girls. 20-25, GFE, very pretty of course. As for sex, I like blowjob expertise.)

Anyway, thanks a lot for taking the time to read me, and maybe answer. And if some of you are in Kiev then, maybe we can talk about this in real!

Regards[/QUOTE]I really admire you for one thing.

Wot a Fucking Cheek?

[QUOTE=Lejude; 1286012]Hi Guys,

I see that some of yo have a sound knowledge of the Ukrainian girls!

I'll be there in June for a fortnight during the Euro, and I'm looking for a couple of amateur / semi-pro girls to help my journey be successfull.

I like slim girls. 20-25, GFE, very pretty of course. As for sex, I like blowjob expertise.)

Anyway, thanks a lot for taking the time to read me, and maybe answer. And if some of you are in Kiev then, maybe we can talk about this in real!

Regards[/QUOTE]I really admire you for one thing.

Wot a Fucking Cheek.

Some questions 4 you, if I may.

Mr Lejude. How do you like your Blowjob, Rare, Medium, or Well Done?

With or witout your favorite Condom.

Which Fucking Team are you supporting.

The reason I ask, because They need a kick up their asses. I hope Dynamo Kiev supporters do just that.

Jojo, you barely have the skills to pull a 5 in River Palace of old with a $100 note taped to each lapel.

[QUOTE=Jojosun; 1285971]Not questioning your numbers on the list, but that I can easily do it in London, or Washington, DC.

Turn up at Josephene Club, DC and I will show you how.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=CanadianBoy;1286048]Exactly! It has a lot to do with the visa. The best example is Minsk and Kiev, two cities very close to one another yet very different for mongering. Kiev is overwrought with sex tourist compared to the Minsk. There are a few reasons for this, I am sure, but the fact Ukraine is visa free and Belarus is not plays a major role.[/QUOTE]It's kind of bizzarro world, when you pay almost same amount of money for lap dances in Kiev, as you do in US. Average American makes 5x more money than Ukrainians. Funny thing is in my home state of New Jersey. 90% of strippers are either Ukrainians or Russians, and they are lot better looking than in Kiev. Only problem is, there are almost no chance of hooking up with strippers and no touching, unless you drop some serious cash.

My only conclusion is, besides more foreign mongers in Ukraine, there is enough new class of rich Ukrainian and Russians who likes to come to strip clubs like Rio and out spend foreign mongers.

Jerseyguy

This Kiev Report is becoming more and more stupid. Too many people sitting at home on their sofas and writing reports because they have been once or twice or may be even 10 times to Russia, Ukraine or alike. They think they know but they know nothing. I have been to Russia and Ukraine about 200 times for the last 10 years and I say I am NOT an expert in this! Everbody has his own requirements (expensive or cheap, beautiful or average, easy or hard to get, style, etc.). I'm not interested in discussions and wrong facts, so why don't we open a new one only for facts! Listings of webpages, clubs, strip clubs, massage salons, public areas etc with some helpful information. ONLY facts about it and everyone can make his own picture whether he likes or not.

Ah yes, one of the reasons why I like NJ. .

The hot dancers in Kiev are at the Rhino clubs. Those girls are smokin' but there is a no take out policy. Between that and the cost being the same or more, might as well stay in NJ, eh?

And yes, the average American does make much more money than the average Ukrainian but you'll never see an average Ukrainian inside Rio. But yes, there is a decent sized (not large by any means) class of Ukrainians and Russians who have money.

Are you the one who left the NJ pipefitters union sticker inside the Arena Beer Pub men's bathroom?

[QUOTE=JerseyGuy123; 1286221]It's kind of bizzarro world, when you pay almost same amount of money for lap dances in Kiev, as you do in US. Average American makes 5x more money than Ukrainians. Funny thing is in my home state of New Jersey. 90% of strippers are either Ukrainians or Russians, and they are lot better looking than in Kiev. Only problem is, there are almost no chance of hooking up with strippers and no touching, unless you drop some serious cash.

My only conclusion is, besides more foreign mongers in Ukraine, there is enough new class of rich Ukrainian and Russians who likes to come to strip clubs like Rio and out spend foreign mongers.

Jerseyguy[/QUOTE]

Ding ding ding. Give this man a prize. Natasha?

[QUOTE=JerseyGuy123;1286080]It has to do with 1% of Ukrainian and Russians who makes 10x more money than average Mongers. Before 2005 there were very few locals who could afford or willing to spend big money to sponsor those 9's and 10s at the Dance clubs like D'lux or even take out girls in strip clubs like Rio. Also for Americans, dollar went to shits. Prior to 2005, I was making at least 3 trips to Brasil a year, I was able to pick up 9's and 10s in their top clubs for $100 like Club Photo, now those same girls cost at least $300 plus. Also plane fare has almost double in past serveral years for us normal monger to travel.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cruiser D; 1285958]Dating sites, night clubs, walking around and daily interaction.

TBH, I should probably delete 600 numbers and add a new 600. .[/QUOTE]Another Flash Harry chasing teen age pussy on Kreshatick.

I suppose wearing your Armani suite as well.

Please give us information about Club Photo. Where is this club?

Thank you!

[QUOTE=JerseyGuy123;1286080]It has to do with 1% of Ukrainian and Russians who makes 10x more money than average Mongers. Before 2005 there were very few locals who could afford or willing to spend big money to sponsor those 9's and 10s at the Dance clubs like D'lux or even take out girls in strip clubs like Rio. Also for Americans, dollar went to shits. Prior to 2005, I was making at least 3 trips to Brasil a year, I was able to pick up 9's and 10s in their top clubs for $100 like Club Photo, now those same girls cost at least $300 plus. Also plane fare has almost double in past serveral years for us normal monger to travel.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cruiser D;1286196]Jojo, you barely have the skills to pull a 5 in River Palace of old with a $100 note taped to each lapel.[/QUOTE].

You make me blow my own trumpet here.

I might not have your skills, like turning up in a suit in Kiev disco Clubs (How I laughed when Prosal Took the [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] out of you 4 doing it, Thank You Prosal) to pull hookers, But I Have the Height (+ I Was told the Looks as well) plus enough Bullshiting Skills to talk the RP girls to meet me the following day at happy hour times, for the grand sum of US 100. Check my posts of 2009 and later.

With all your skills you paid them US$200.

As if skills were needed in River Palace then to fuck the Hookers of yesterday.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D; 1286309]Ah yes, one of the reasons why I like NJ. .

The hot dancers in Kiev are at the Rhino clubs. Those girls are smokin' but there is a no take out policy. Between that and the cost being the same or more, might as well stay in NJ, eh?

And yes, the average American does make much more money than the average Ukrainian but you'll never see an average Ukrainian inside Rio. But yes, there is a decent sized (not large by any means) class of Ukrainians and Russians who have money.

Are you the one who left the NJ pipefitters union sticker inside the Arena Beer Pub men's bathroom?[/QUOTE]To dumb ass, aka Cruiser D.

No shit Sherlock, that there are only very few Ukrainians who could afford to go to Club like Rio, but there are enough to keep that place packed.

If you know anything about NJ, you would know, certified union plumbers in NJ makes more money than average Medical Doctors.

It was my first time in Kiev for very short trip and I was just little price shocked, regarding price of lap dances compare to US. I also assumed for $25 lap dances in strip clubs in Kiev, I would get lot more mileage in contact and performance than in US. I'm perfectly Ok with paying $25 or more for lap dances, if it was lot better than the ones I get at home. It might be strange concept to you, but there are lots of guys who enjoys good lap dances at strip clubs as much as good sex, and I droped over $500 in Club Rio for drinks, lap dance and to bring a super hot dancer to my apartment from the club on Friday night with no regrets. I not a bargain hunter like you, also not a arrogant prick, who constantly attack other people on this board. I also make lot more money than average American, well over six figures, if you have to know.

Just chill out, don't be a such a jerk.

[QUOTE=Dick1; 1286378]Please give us information about Club Photo. Where is this club?

Thank you![/QUOTE]Actually, name of the club is called Cafe Fotos. It located in Sao Paulo, Brazil. It's one of top club in Sao Paulo. When I use to visit there during. 1999-2005 it was like being in Disney land for men. From outside, it look like a small castle and inside was just as impressive.

On average night, there would be least 100 girls working, majority being 8s and 9s and few real 10s. Girls all were Evening gown, majority of girls were white, lots of girls with German and eastern european Ancestery, I guess from mass immigration in early 19th hundreds. Price ranged from $100 to $200 for the whole night, depending on currency exchange back then. From what informations I gathered from Sao Paulo board, place moved to new location and now girls are asking any where from $300 to $500 a night. Also there is $150 entrance fee. I haven't been in Sao Paulo since 2006, but I might go back this fall. At least I won't run into prick like The awsome Cruise Dick head.

Jerseyguy

[QUOTE=Jojosun; 1286346]Another Flash Harry chasing teen age pussy on Kreshatick.

I suppose wearing your Armani suite as well.[/QUOTE]Don't forget about his rug on top of his head.

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[QUOTE=JerseyGuy123; 1286221]It's kind of bizzarro world, when you pay almost same amount of money for lap dances in Kiev, as you do in US. Average American makes 5x more money than Ukrainians. Funny thing is in my home state of New Jersey. 90% of strippers are either Ukrainians or Russians, and they are lot better looking than in Kiev. Only problem is, there are almost no chance of hooking up with strippers and no touching, unless you drop some serious cash.

My only conclusion is, besides more foreign mongers in Ukraine, there is enough new class of rich Ukrainian and Russians who likes to come to strip clubs like Rio and out spend foreign mongers.

Jerseyguy[/QUOTE]You are wright, there are good amount of very nice ukrainian strippers in USA, but you can't do with them nothing, maybe only if you are very rich. Rio has a lot of avarage and some even disgracefull strippers (fat asses) , but you also can find very nice girls for takeout if you are lucky. Type of girls that impossible for us to take out in USA. I agree, those nice girls are minority in Rio, but indeed I saw some very nice girls there, not lesser quality than USA (ukrainian and Russian origin) strippers. But all in all rhino section has the best quality (most strippers are hot) , but no takeout policy unfortunatelly there.

If you are wiling to pay 200 USD or Euros or more, you can do from the comfort of your own home city. Yes, with a little effort, you get GFE from very beautiful ladies. Just check the boards of your home city before making the journey to Kiev.

I have never paid more than 100 USD per "hour" that sometimes got expended into a whole night. I have definitely had had a few bad experiences, but most of the time I got memories that will last a lifetime. This includes threesomes, emotional connections,"friendships" and just mind-blowing sex that will keep me going back for as long as I can.

The only people that should be bragging about their Kiev exploits are those who manage to spend under 100 USD for a perfect GFE with a multiorgasmic fantasy young woman, the type that you only see on the tv screen elsewhere in the world.

You do not need game, or or a Rolex or a suit, you just need to be firm and have a little money on your pocket. After she agrees, THEN it is up to you to make it a memorable experience for both you and her. And if you do, she will come back for more.

The rest are just driving up the prices.

[QUOTE=Dick1; 1286378]Please give us information about Club Photo. Where is this club?

Thank you![/QUOTE]Cafe Photo in Sao Paulo. One of the glamiest "boite" (ie fine etablishment where to find pros) in town, all girls 8+ and up (no blacks or mulatas, just blondes or white-skinned brunettes). I confirm the prices, but that was when the Real was at 4 for 1 €, and before the outrageous increase of cost of life whose Brasil suffers since a few years, and which has priced the whole country totally out of the market.

[QUOTE=Kirch;1286302]This Kiev Report is becoming more and more stupid. Too many people sitting at home on their sofas and writing reports because they have been once or twice or may be even 10 times to Russia, Ukraine or alike. They think they know but they know nothing. I'm not interested in discussions and wrong facts.[/QUOTE]Many people here think (and they are right IMO) that scoring freebies or occasionals is what FSU is all about, and those people don't care much about mere lists and facts about prostitution. As usual, to each its own.

BBC TV showed a disturbing Documentary"Panorama" last night about Violence and Racist & Anti Jewish chants +the vile Monkey Chants. Both in Ukraine And Poland.

Asian students were beaten up and the Police did nothing about it.

In Krakow Poland Less than 30 miles from Auschwitz, they were chanting Kill The Jews.

England Football fans would be so tame compared to the above lot.

I hate to think what would happen if as I hope England would win against both Ukraine and Poland.

And if were a Pole living in London, I would hope for an England Win as well.

[url].http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18192375.[/url]

Bbc. Co. Uk / panorama.

Mongers and football fans of Dark colors, or Jewish Looking, need to take extra care.

I add "how to get the maximum performances for the minimum prices".

[QUOTE=Kirch;1286302]This Kiev Report is becoming more and more stupid. Too many people sitting at home on their sofas and writing reports because they have been once or twice or may be even 10 times to Russia, Ukraine or alike. They think they know but they know nothing. I have been to Russia and Ukraine about 200 times for the last 10 years and I say I am NOT an expert in this! Everbody has his own requirements (expensive or cheap, beautiful or average, easy or hard to get, style, etc.). I'm not interested in discussions and wrong facts, so why don't we open a new one only for facts! Listings of webpages, clubs, strip clubs, massage salons, public areas etc with some helpful information. ONLY facts about it and everyone can make his own picture whether he likes or not.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Prosal;1286678]Many people here think (and they are right IMO) that scoring freebies or occasionals is what FSU is all about, and those people don't care much about mere lists and facts about prostitution. As usual, to each its own.[/QUOTE]I second that! Sometimes you do know what you are talking about. (smile)

[QUOTE=Jojosun; 1286689]BBC TV showed a disturbing Documentary"Panorama" last night about Violence and Racist & Anti Jewish chants +the vile Monkey Chants. Both in Ukraine And Poland.

Asian students were beaten up and the Police did nothing about it.

In Krakow Poland Less than 30 miles from Auschwitz, they were chanting Kill The Jews.

England Football fans would be so tame compared to the above lot.

I hate to think what would happen if as I hope England would win against both Ukraine and Poland.

And if were a Pole living in London, I would hope for an England Win as well.

[url].http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18192375.[/url]

Bbc. Co. Uk / panorama.

Mongers and football fans of Dark colors, or Jewish Looking, need to take extra care.[/QUOTE]Here is a link on it on youtube.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z93iQgI3_Iw[/url]

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1286742]I second that! Sometimes you do know what you are talking about. (smile)[/QUOTE]Admittedly I get drunk and post shit of questionable relevancy at times. (wink)

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1286742]I second that! Sometimes you do know what you are talking about. (smile)[/QUOTE]Climax. I also second what you seconded above. Had I known that Prosal was unattached, then I wouldn't have questioned even his Tashkent experiences.

Where have you been man. You started some of this shit, then you left me 2 deal with the fallout.

BTW, How is Chicago "The Windy City " LOL. .

You still Got to have a Spaghetti at Barbeques there. LOL.

I Know, The Answer My Friend is Blowing In The Wind, LOL.

How much I love the Kiev thread, now we have a (Nice Guy From Jersey) on Board.

Cheers

[QUOTE=JerseyGuy123; 1286529]To dumb ass, aka Cruiser D.

If you know anything about NJ, you would know, certified union plumbers in NJ makes more money than average Medical Doctors.[/QUOTE]CD,

Can't complain its off topic here. He started the talk about NJ PLumbers in hie relpy.

Here "Are you the one who left the NJ pipefitters union sticker inside the Arena Beer Pub men's bathroom?".

Same thing in the UK, and especially in LONDON.

Some Lawyers, Bankers are trainning to get certified as Plumbers.

They make loads of money, much more than other occupations.

Charlie Mullins the richest Plumber in the UK. Turnover last year £13 million as boss of Pimlico Plumbers.

CD. Seems to keep getting his Knickers in the twist. He Can't get it right even about how much Plumbers make.

[QUOTE=Kirch;1286302]This Kiev Report is becoming more and more stupid. Too many people sitting at home on their sofas and writing reports because they have been once or twice or may be even 10 times to Russia, Ukraine or alike. They think they know but they know nothing. I have been to Russia and Ukraine about 200 times for the last 10 years and I say I am NOT an expert in this! Everbody has his own requirements (expensive or cheap, beautiful or average, easy or hard to get, style, etc.). I'm not interested in discussions and wrong facts, so why don't we open a new one only for facts! Listings of webpages, clubs, strip clubs, massage salons, public areas etc with some helpful information. ONLY facts about it and everyone can make his own picture whether he likes or not.[/QUOTE]Kirch, what is equally stupid is this post of yours. In your own words, you say that you have been to Kiev and Russia 200 times over the last 10 years. You have been an ISG member at least since your first post in March 2009 yet NONE of your posts are what you now complain about, namely full and accurate information.

Almost all of your posts are useless requests for help and information despite your claim of being a frequent and active visitor. It is a bit odd to me that someone supposedly so experienced needs everyone to hold his hand and asks for so much help, even for a taxi driver who probably had his phone shut off for a day or so!

One of your posts even complained that it was too hard for you to read through all the posts to get the information you want. What's the matter, reading is too difficult for you?

When will YOU, the self-proclaimed very frequent visitor, start posting real information and facts from what is your treasure trove of information and experience, not just here but also in the Russia section?

Or are you lying about these visits of yours from the comfort of your sofa in Germany?

[QUOTE=Cruiser D; 1286309]Ah yes, one of the reasons why I like NJ. .

The hot dancers in Kiev are at the Rhino clubs. Those girls are smokin' but there is a no take out policy. Between that and the cost being the same or more, might as well stay in NJ, eh?

And yes, the average American does make much more money than the average Ukrainian but you'll never see an average Ukrainian inside Rio. But yes, there is a decent sized (not large by any means) class of Ukrainians and Russians who have money.

Are you the one who left the NJ pipefitters union sticker inside the Arena Beer Pub men's bathroom?[/QUOTE]Hey Cruiser D,

What do you know about NJ? Your stupid comments regarding NJ pipe fitters just tells me, you are a obnoxious Jerk. License NJ union plumber makes almost much as Medical doctors in the state. I noticed every time some one makes a comments you attack them, instead of giving some good useful informations to a newbie. I only been to Kiev once and I gave my opinion, and no I like NJ clubs, but I also like to travel to experience new city to have fun. I don't need some arrogant jerk, who thinks he is Jean Simmons and claims he has over 1, 200 numbers to brag about it. Well I guess I could also could get 1, 200 numbers in my phone, if I asked every Skanky working girls in Kiev too, during my 3 days of short stay in that city, instead of looking for 8s and 9s. I might not have gotten exactly what I expected, but I still had a blast in Club Rio, and you don't like that club that's too bad. I was in Kiev for only short time so I wasn't able to check out every clubs for comparison.

By the way, I make well over six figures and I like spending money on hot girls, all over the world. I don't mine spending lot's of money, long as I'm having a good time and yes I'm don't know hardly anything about Kiev, but from going to strip clubs in NJ and seeing all the hot Ukrainian stripper dancers, I want to see them in their own country, also to revisit FKK in Germany.

Jerseyguy

[QUOTE=AColonizer;1286710]I add "how to get the maximum performances for the minimum prices".[/QUOTE]Perhaps you will finally explain to all your fans on this thread what is involved in such a negotiation? How to do it? What to say? Perhaps describe in detail the conversation and illustrate the approach you use to get to where you want to with the girl? At what point do you see it's of no use and reject the girl? What are signs you look for that indicate to you a girl will be flexible and provide "advanced" services? Give us some details that might be helpful in a negotiation. As many times as you've written about how lame it is to not get full services, you never explained how to do it your way, to get different results. Not that everyone is into everything that you are interested, but at least most guys are into getting BBBJ, and I think that you might have something to say on this point, since the same tactics and approach you use for getting even more advanced services, might help others in knowing how to handle the negotiations better regarding basic GFE services. So how about it? Would you care to explain more about your negotiations tactics and approach, and illustrate with some examples, that could serve as a guide? It would seem that you are one of those mongers best equipped to address this very point.

LJ

[QUOTE=Wallyally; 1285284]Did one of our fellow members here meet this blondi? I am not sure if she is real. The communication with her is strange!

[url]http://flirt.com.ua/blondi1810[/url]

Maybe someone has her private details or experience with her? She looks "wow".[/QUOTE]I guess I know her. She is a dancer from Rio. Her name at Rio is Vicca. I toke her out two weeks ago. Nothing to write home about just average service. Coverd BJ but you can fuck her as much a you like and she got pretty wet. She stay whole 3 hours.

Cheers!

[QUOTE=Stevie69; 1286626]If you are wiling to pay 200 USD or Euros or more, you can do from the comfort of your own home city. Yes, with a little effort, you get GFE from very beautiful ladies. Just check the boards of your home city before making the journey to Kiev.

I have never paid more than 100 USD per "hour" that sometimes got expended into a whole night. I have definitely had had a few bad experiences, but most of the time I got memories that will last a lifetime. This includes threesomes, emotional connections,"friendships" and just mind-blowing sex that will keep me going back for as long as I can.

The only people that should be bragging about their Kiev exploits are those who manage to spend under 100 USD for a perfect GFE with a multiorgasmic fantasy young woman, the type that you only see on the tv screen elsewhere in the world.

You do not need game, or or a Rolex or a suit, you just need to be firm and have a little money on your pocket. After she agrees, THEN it is up to you to make it a memorable experience for both you and her. And if you do, she will come back for more.

The rest are just driving up the prices.[/QUOTE]100 an hour is the magic number in Kiev. The problem with many first time tourists is they have a problem accessing the talent and end up over paying with the easy go to options. I recently read a post here about rich Ukranians messing everything up. This is completely untrue. I was in Kiev and I did not see any rich Ukranians. Its not like Moscow where rich Russians are all over the place and very visible. You have to realize that once we arrived into the year 2005 a lot of Ukranian men were able to find some form of employment and they became more attractive to there women as opposed to foreigners. If a Ukranian has real money, he will not need any prostitutes, he will go out and get the young fresh stuff that we can't get. There is no reason for him to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] money away on a girl when he holds all the cards. The point is Ukraine is a poor place with cheap pussy but it takes a bit of work and knowledge to access.

[QUOTE=Jojosun;1286759]Where have you been man. You started some of this shit, then you left me 2 deal with the fallout.[/QUOTE]Just no interest in arguing.

[QUOTE=Jojosun; 1286759]BTW, How is Chicago "The Windy City " LOL.

Cheers[/QUOTE]Shitty! I can't get laid here anymore. You and all your countrymen stole all of my fresh off the boat EE girls. Fortunately, I am also an EU citizen and I am seriously thinking about moving to your territory. Maybe soon we can troll together for some nice Polish or Lith girls.

Climax, you never see rich Ukrainians in Kyiv because you never leave the tourist spots. Not to mention you wouldn't know where find these places.

To the NJ plumber and Jojo. I can only assume English is a second language for both of you, or that at least your reading comprehension is very poor. The last two pages of postings have been meaningless. Keep up the good work.

[QUOTE=LilJoey;1286828]Perhaps you will finally explain to all your fans on this thread what is involved in such a negotiation? How to do it? What to say? Perhaps describe in detail the conversation and illustrate the approach you use to get to where you want to with the girl? At what point do you see it's of no use and reject the girl? What are signs you look for that indicate to you a girl will be flexible and provide "advanced" services?[/QUOTE]LOL. LilJoey has humor. Yes, I would also like to get some killer punch lines that will make the girls [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] on the bed when I fuck them doggie. I will try anything twice and that would be a first. Was offered this treatment from a local black babe on Curacao (not Campo) but I chickened out.

What are your experiences with anal sex in Ukraine? Is it common that the semi pros and "girlfriends" do it? Cruiser D, you old prick what do you say? It is OK to be unfriendly when you reply, as long as you give some facts on this. I know that you know, or at least have some sort of statistics on this (the Android app named Analometer is a huge success in Brazil). Is it considered a perverted request from a sick man or do the devuschkas harbor secret dreams of getting royally pounded in the ass?

B.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D;1286877]Climax, you never see rich Ukrainians in Kyiv because you never leave the tourist spots. Not to mention you wouldn't know where find these places.[/QUOTE]Yeah, but they are so few. Its so obvious that they have a shitty business environment that will take many years to change. That is a good thing.

[QUOTE=Poker Player 2;1285473]At about 12:30 Am on Tuesday May 22nd. 2012, I went to Shooters club. I arrived with a taxi and I noticed there were a few girls waiting outside to get in. I was shown unusual respect and courtesy by all the staff at shooters. Security wished me a good evening and the doorman opened the club door and invited me to go in. There is a100 UAH fee to get in and you are given a juice can and a receipt to get either whisky or vodka from the bar inside. I missed the KASSA sign and the hostess sweetly led me to the window to pay. The disco is not large and is terribly crowded. It was previously reported that the bar is owned by some Scottish folks but I have on good authority that it is now owned by a Turkish man called Ozzy! Certainly, our Turkish\Middle Eastern friends appeared to be well represnted in the Disco on this evening. The place if full of young, mostly beautiful girls dressed to impress but perhaps not the most appropriate place for a man of my age. Nevertheless, I tried to engage two different girls in dance and conversation who appeared unattended only to be ignored. I went upstairs to the resturant which I understand has good food but I was not hungry and I also went to the bar downstairs which was mostly empty. I had a beer and was also given a choice of vodka or whiskey. I suggest you go with the whiskey; the Vodka, I did not like. The beer which I paid for appeared to be rather less expensive than other clubs. There are many things I do not get about this club- I am sure that is a function of me being uninformed mostly. There is face control but I saw many girls and boys dressed in Jeans inside. In general, I did not get the fuss about this club. What distinguishes this club for some members, I can not tell.[/QUOTE]Here is a report by a newbie indicating it was not easy for him to locate Working Girls at Shooters, let alone take a very hot girl home from that club for $200/2 hours or less money.

There has been no reporting of substance on the topic of scoring with very hot (8 level and above) p4p women in the regular nightclub scene of Places like Shooters and D'lux etc. For low prices of under $200 for 2 or more hours.

There has merely been the bald assertion that it is possible.

There are no action reports substantiating this, or describing in detail how to recognize the WG's in the clubs, and what strategy or tactics to use in approaching them, negotiating services with them, and carefully choosing from among them to select one that will be a GFE experience, rather than a disaster user ***** who will cheat you and leave. Virtually nothing to help guide newbies in this area has been posted.

And then I read a report like Poker Player's report, and I see that it may not be so easy as claimed.

To Those of you who are proponents of mongering in the regular nightclubs and claim to have successfully done so, and who have recently been in Kiev. You have not served members like Poker Phayer well. You have withheld guidance that is obviously sorely needed. It is not sufficient for you to sit back and say that you can't help newbie mongers who are clueless or who have no game. This is not chasing freebies. We're talking about p4p WG's. If guys like Poker Player are left to fail miserably when going to a regular nightclub, it's the fault of those veterans who are experienced in this area who failed to post the necessary guidance.

Kirsch too, in his recent action report a few pages back reported taking a driver and hitting the regular clubs, with No reported success, and he is not a newbie.

I reserve judgment on the truth of the claim that the prices of hot girls in the regular clubs have come down to $200/2hrs or lower, because I am not in Kiev and will not be for some time, and I will pursue the truth during my next trip in September / October.

But I don't think I am remiss in asking those of you who have been in Kiev and went to the regular nightclubs seeking p4p with very hot girls, to post your action reports, which will enhance this thread.

Otherwise, newbies coming to Kiev will have nothing to expect from the regular nightclubs other than an experience like newbie Poker Player.

With respect,

LJ

Do you happen to have her number, Horst?

[QUOTE=Horst 008; 1286839]I guess I know her. She is a dancer from Rio. Her name at Rio is Vicca. I toke her out two weeks ago. Nothing to write home about just average service. Coverd BJ but you can fuck her as much a you like and she got pretty wet. She stay whole 3 hours.

Cheers![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=LilJoey; 1286942]Here is a report by a newbie indicating it was not easy for him to locate Working Girls at Shooters, let alone take a very hot girl home from that club for $200/2 hours or less money.

There has been no reporting of substance on the topic of scoring with very hot (8 level and above) p4p women in the regular nightclub scene of Places like Shooters and D'lux etc. For low prices of under $200 for 2 or more hours.

There has merely been the bald assertion that it is possible.

There are no action reports substantiating this, or describing in detail how to recognize the WG's in the clubs, and what strategy or tactics to use in approaching them, negotiating services with them, and carefully choosing from among them to select one that will be a GFE experience, rather than a disaster user * who will cheat you and leave. Virtually nothing to help guide newbies in this area has been posted.

And then I read a report like Poker Player's report, and I see that it may not be so easy as claimed.

To Those of you who are proponents of mongering in the regular nightclubs and claim to have successfully done so, and who have recently been in Kiev. You have not served members like Poker Phayer well. You have withheld guidance that is obviously sorely needed. It is not sufficient for you to sit back and say that you can't help newbie mongers who are clueless or who have no game. This is not chasing freebies. We're talking about p4p WG's. If guys like Poker Player are left to fail miserably when going to a regular nightclub, it's the fault of those veterans who are experienced in this area who failed to post the necessary guidance.

Kirsch too, in his recent action report a few pages back reported taking a driver and hitting the regular clubs, with No reported success, and he is not a newbie.

I reserve judgment on the truth of the claim that the prices of hot girls in the regular clubs have come down to $200/2hrs or lower, because I am not in Kiev and will not be for some time, and I will pursue the truth during my next trip in September / October.

But I don't think I am remiss in asking those of you who have been in Kiev and went to the regular nightclubs seeking p4p with very hot girls, to post your action reports, which will enhance this thread.

Otherwise, newbies coming to Kiev will have nothing to expect from the regular nightclubs other than an experience like newbie Poker Player.

With respect,

LJ[/QUOTE]Liljoey,

With all due respect to you for you putting the time and effort into writing the above post.

Why don't you just come up with it, and name names. Re the hotties for US$200.

You know it andi Know it and so does everyone here, it was only Cruiser Bragger who posted that he gets them.

So really you should have addressed the above to him.

He grilled you about Rio, your turn to cross examine his wild High School kind of bragging about his exploits in KIEV.

[QUOTE=LilJoey;1286942]There are no action reports substantiating this, or describing in detail how to recognize the WG's in the clubs, and what strategy or tactics to use in approaching them, negotiating services with them, and carefully choosing from among them to select one that will be a GFE experience, rather than a disaster user ***** who will cheat you and leave. Virtually nothing to help guide newbies in this area has been posted.[/QUOTE]LJ, you forgot to mention INSERT_NAME_OF_UNMENTIONABLE_AND OVER_PRICED_STRP_JOINT. And IF you are ALL of these users, this is quite an elaborate scheme. LOL. I am just teasing you.

I was in Vodka Bar and Shooters and the only thing missing from many wgs was a green sign around the neck stating the price. I did not pursuit these but focused on girls with a red sign that I suspected could become yellow by utilizing some Barba charm. This was at least the plan until I reached the stage where I focused only on the vodka and how good it was to have found new ISG buddies. The "you are my new best friend"-stage that makes us men blush the next day. The next day I, apart from blushing, fucked a girl in my apartment (and her ass) who was on Vodka bar. Far from a 10 when her yellow teeth was turned towards me but I asked and she told me that most girls that where working on Vodka bar would settle for around 100 USD or less, and that I should just go up and talk to them.

So despite my limited experience of Kiev in specific, my tip to you LJ (or the illusive newbies we like to use to motivate whatever we do here) is not try to "recognize them" but to talk to them. All of them, one after another. Smile and ask "are you a girl that like some fun or are you more the conservative type that likes a long term relationship with a man?". I imagine the rest is not so different from how one would go about it in a setting where the need for this this initial differentiator question is eliminated. This is in fact like two different approaches to life. Some salmons stay in the river, others go out in the ocean.

Good luck in exploring new and fun grounds where you do not only hunt lions that are sedated and placed on the savanna the night before you arrive with your sperm-gun. I will visit the unmentionable club some time for sure, so see this post as an attempt to motivate also short term visitors to go about Kiev just like any other city. To talk with a female there is absolutely not harder than any other city. If you are incapable of talking to unsedated females, I suggest you sedate yourself with some vodka instead. Better to get up on the horse a bit drunk, than to walk all your life.

B.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D; 1286877]Climax, you never see rich Ukrainians in Kyiv because you never leave the tourist spots. Not to mention you wouldn't know where find these places.

To the NJ plumber and Jojo. I can only assume English is a second language for both of you, or that at least your reading comprehension is very poor. The last two pages of postings have been meaningless. Keep up the good work.[/QUOTE]I am going to send you one of the Top Pimlico Plumbers in London to fix your leaking Back Pipes to stop the kind if drivel and BS that you started posting here, when you made your reappearnce and opened the Can Of Worms here.

Or do you prefer a Jersey Gas Pipe Fitter?

Rather then reply in a coherent way, you throw personal insults around and punching below the belt, because you have been exposed as lacking in substance. .

I am the first one here to apologize, if I am wrong on something. And I have done it.

But you sre so arrogant with a big bragging mouth, that you think its cool being one.

My first language is SIGN Language, and if we were linked via video (Like Now) , we wouldn't have got lost in translation.

Your contribution on here so far.

1 An Apartment list that you did for Bez like 5 years ago.

2. Now you have 1800 girls on your Android Phone.

3. You got the details of one club wrong, and when you were corrected by other members, you did a runner.

4. You criticize (Me and You) quality of pictures on the photos thread. And when he tells you to post yours, you respond that you respect the Privacy of your girls.

Privacy of your Hookers on the Android's list. Again My Fucking Foot.

That's all. .

I guess Muddy 7 was the one who read you out very well here calling you "A Clown ", so much so that you did another runner from him.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow; 1286868]Just no interest in arguing.

Shitty! I can't get laid here anymore. You and all your countrymen stole all of my fresh off the boat EE girls. Fortunately, I am also an EU citizen and I am seriously thinking about moving to your territory. Maybe soon we can troll together for some nice Polish or Lith girls.[/QUOTE]. Climax Yeah get your Ass over here ASP. WE don't need to troll for Polish Girls in London.

They are like 7/11 Grocery shops on most corners. .

Lithuanians are on the East Side of town. Never mongered there down Muggers Boulevards. Also. Its too risky now, with the cops doing a lot of raids there in the build up to the Olympics.

BTW, Unlike Chicago, in London you can't have a Spagetti at Barbeques.

Isn't it great now to be a Dual Citizen on both sides of the Atlantic.

No need to stand in Long lines waiting to be let in, especially at Heathrow airport.

CD and other Non EU citizens. Can stand there for up to 2 hours waiting to be let in, which is BTW not guaranteed.

Then unlike here, he can't duck any questions thrown at him by a stern UK Border Agency offical. And if they find him too Cocky or evasive, then back on the plane.

Would love to see the Sight then.

It is five years I have already described several detailed reports about everything men need. And I repeat the same things. Men should study methods and experiences by past reports. There is no worst blind person than who doesn't want to see. I understand your mood. Unfortunately there is no better solution: practice bastardy, practice bastardy, practice bastardy.

"at least most guys are into getting BBBJ" it is clear you haven't read any words of my reports.

[QUOTE=LilJoey; 1286828]Perhaps you will finally explain to all your fans on this thread what is involved in such a negotiation? How to do it? What to say? Perhaps describe in detail the conversation and illustrate the approach you use to get to where you want to with the girl? At what point do you see it's of no use and reject the girl? What are signs you look for that indicate to you a girl will be flexible and provide "advanced" services? Give us some details that might be helpful in a negotiation. As many times as you've written about how lame it is to not get full services, you never explained how to do it your way, to get different results. Not that everyone is into everything that you are interested, but at least most guys are into getting BBBJ, and I think that you might have something to say on this point, since the same tactics and approach you use for getting even more advanced services, might help others in knowing how to handle the negotiations better regarding basic GFE services. So how about it? Would you care to explain more about your negotiations tactics and approach, and illustrate with some examples, that could serve as a guide? It would seem that you are one of those mongers best equipped to address this very point.

LJ[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Prosal;1286753]Admittedly I get drunk and post shit of questionable relevancy at times. (wink)[/QUOTE]Your posts even when you are drunk, are much more relevant when compared to a lot of crap info that we have been subjected to lately.

So finally they open the old "new" Mandarin Boat at the River Dnipro. Address for the Taxi driver is Prospekt Moskovasky 32. But this is about 100 meter before the river, so just tell the Taxi driver to drive further and you will see a huge Boat. On the left part of the boat is a disco, when we got there it was quite early but crowded. But not so many nice girls. At the time we left the Strip Club it was really crowded outside and I saw many hotties! Have to check that out another time.

So o the right part of the boat is the Strip Club [url]http://www.mandarin-restaurant.kiev.ua/eng.html[/url]

Prices are the same BUT the kitchen is NOT good. Avoid the food! May be they work on that, the club opened about a couple of days ago. May be this is the reason why there are not many guests. What is very nice beacause on the other hand you have lots of beautiful girls! I saw some familar girls like Nina (Jesus! I want here but she is only doing private dances). Even some waitresses are the same and Mark and Sergey (Managers) work there too. The concept is different to Rio. They have Live Music for every song the girls dance to. About 6 singers, some of them are nice. And in addition every fifth song they have around 8 sexy dancers with coreography. BUT it is way too loud! It's hard to have a conversation, I told already Mark and Sergej but I don't think they change it.

I was there one more time on my own and had a girl sitting at my table and one of the singers. We chatted like hell and it was Monday morning around 3:00 am. All the sudden I noticed that I was the only guest there! Still all the dancers danced, all the waitresses worked and the singers sang. Strange, just for me, one guest. I left with the girl so they could finished work.

It's good right now to go there if you don't like crowded places. May be it changes fast. Who knows. It's about 15 minutes outside of City Center. So here's some advice. Go to Rio, have some drinks there and then you ask a manager that you heard about Manadarin and if they offer a transfer. It worked for us and we got a taxi there for free. But the way back you have to pay for it. So have a Taxinumber with you because the taxi drivers there want something about 100-150 griwna!

I always suffered from waiting until dark to have some action without work. I always were told to go to the massage places but never did. So I tried Salon Dolly.

[url]http://www.salondolly.com/[/url]

Some posts about this place here on the forum, so just a little update.

Another buddy from this forum showed us the place. Coming from Kreshatik you go up Bogdana Khmelnitsgogo and then first street to left into Pushskinskaja Street. About 50 meters on the right side (between 2 restaurants with terrace) you go right through a tunnel in the backyard. Straight into the first house on the 2nd floor (which is 1st floor in Germany).

There were about 4-5 girls form average to cute girls. May be 6-8. Some dark haired some blond. My buddy decided for a short blond one (don't remember the name). He told me she was fantastic. I decided for Nastia! 23 years old, very cute face and an 8 body from Odessa. Her massage was great as well as the happy ending. Called her after this experience about 3 times to my apartment! They charge 350 griwna for 1 hr massage and happy ending. 450 griwna with kissing, but just forget about it, they just kiss your buddy and nothing more. Not worth it in my experience. For outcall it was the same price + 60 griwna for taxi. I was there today and Nastia had a day off so I decided for Olja. The same type of girl. Skinny, cute face and in the beginning of 20. Her massage was not good at all but the finishing even better then from Nastia.

I think it's a good thing to go there before night time.

[QUOTE=Muddy7; 1263222]Cruiser D,

Your IQ must be really low because you still don't get it.

Can a mod ban this clown? It seems he is only here to fight with posters[/QUOTE]Of course CD only repeats his Mantra in response to the above, that Muddy's first language ain't English either.

Being jubilee year in the UK, you should go down on your knees in Front of the British Embassy in DC and thank the Queen and her subjects for the Language that you are speaking now albeit with Few Cock Ups slipping through your tongue.

[QUOTE=Angus Magee; 1263241]Cruiser D is getting awfully close to serial antagonist territory. He may well have some knowledge but mostly just seems to be ragging on others.

AM[/QUOTE]More damning evidene on someone with useless posts.

I told earlier in this forum that I don't believe in Mamba because you have 1 out of 10 with a good experience. So for me (having limited time here) a waste of time. But I want to learn and got some contacts from another buddy here on ISG and I tried to contact them all in 2 days. About half of them answered. As always you have some that answer straight away giving you price and idea where to start with dinner. Some of them seemed not to be so professional so I had to work a little bit with concersation but in the end it was the same. Commercial interest $$$. I met 3 of them for coffee or dinner to check out if there is chemistry to invest between USD 80 for one hour until USD 500 for one night. They were really hot (actually way better in real then on those stupid mamba photos) but not one got my attention. I realized in 12 years beeing in Russia, Ukraine, Letvia, etc. That the girls who speak English are not only professional in their second language. For my taste they are too artificial. So I spent another 2 days in searching for girls looking ONLY for "friendshhip" on mamba. Of course only the nice onces with English skills. I just wrote them that I'm here for business and don't look for sex, just for some nice things like coffee, dinner, walks, etc. Haha. It was funny, in the end the same game but not so obvious. I had some dates, spent some money for lunch, coffee and dinner. And like always they liked the date and want to meet again. So let me say, the same game like with girls in Germany but you have to spend more money. And in the end you don't know if it works out. LOL.

So, no new experience. For me it's only one reason I come here. I do business and spend some additional days for fun. For me places like Rio, Mandarin, Buddha Bar or Deluxe are the right places. And in addition it's the entire package! It's a nice city with nice people and I have found some friends here I have a great time with. All the other mongers looking for cheap quick sex with BEAUTIFUL girls, forget about Kiev! Going to Shooters or Vodka Bar and trying to get a one night stand with an average girl, it's another story. May be it works for some of those men here on ISG beeing VERY attractiv and young. I don't know.

In Germany we have those great FKK Clubs and other things where you can have some great fun not spending so much money. So I repeat myself. It's up to you what you want. But only coming here for that reason it's not worth it.

One story at the end. I have met a girl here one year ago. She is working at a strip club. I won't say which club, it's not RIO. She is really nice and didn't believe me I like her. I spend every time I am here some time with her and she finally falled in love with me. Or whatever it is. I don't pay money anymore and we have a great time. We order pizza from mamamia and she pays for the taxi when we go some where. It's possible but you have to be patiended. She is a beautiful girl, her English is very good, she is not arrogant and doesn't have a voice like Peggy Simpson. She really studied and has a different view on Ukraine like other girls. But 2 cultures crashing togehter. Unfortunately it won't work because we live in 2 different worlds.

[QUOTE=Wallyally;1286995]Do you happen to have her number, Horst?[/QUOTE]Sorry buddy, no number. As the action wasen't that hot I did not ask for her number but I am still pretty sure that she is a girl from club Rio.

Cheers!

[QUOTE=Jojosun; 1287040]Liljoey,

With all due respect to you for you putting the time and effort into writing the above post.

Why don't you just come up with it, and name names. Re the hotties for US$200.

You know it andi Know it and so does everyone here, it was only Cruiser Bragger who posted that he gets them.

So really you should have addressed the above to him.

He grilled you about Rio, your turn to cross examine his wild High School kind of bragging about his exploits in KIEV.[/QUOTE]I don't need to grill anyone. Those who can enhance the thread by giving action reports showing in detail where to go, how to seek out or spot WG's, how to approach, how to speak, what to say, etc. Should do so, because it seems otherwise, newbies cannot easily succeed in the regular nightclubs.

Jojo, my impression of Cruiser D is that, while maybe a bit boastful and ascerbic, he is not a deliberate liar, and therefore I chose to believe him about the prices in the regular nightclubs having gone down to the prices he was quoting of $200/2hrs or less for a 8+ hottie. Yes, I believed Cruiser D despite his unfriendly barbs in the past directed at my style of prose, and his dismissiveness toward the actual contribution I in fact made to this thread during the year 2011 when I began posting, which has received acknowledgement from many members (2011 was a crucial post RP year when guidance was sorely needed and when he and other veterans simply went AWOL and were not posting or responding to newbie questions or contributing at all).

The reason I chose to believe CD is that in this hobby we call mongering and on this forum which is supposed to be a helpful tool to those just getting their feet wet, I prefer to focus on discerning the facts and the truth. So I genuinely want to know what the facts actually are and what prices are possible. So, in part I want to believe him that the prices came down from the ridiculous prices of $500 and $400 I was getting quoted when I visited clubs in 2011, because I would like that to be the case, since it would make things more similar to the previous River Palace days, when P4p costs were more reasonable. And I part I believe him because firstly, it seemed that Hunter Dave regarded Cruiser D as a credible monger, and having met Hunter Dave and trusting him, I would give CD the benefit of the doubt, and accept what he is saying about the true prices, and secondly, Cruiser D is not the ONLY monger to have reported such low prices of $200/2hours or lower being possible in the nightclubs. Remember, there was a report by Me and You and some others, lending the claim credibility as well.

Thirdly, there is a logical inference to be made about the prices. It is based on the history of this debate. In 2011, I had concluded that if you didn't want to waste a lot of time sending home average and even above average mamba girls until a very hot 8+ beauty was accidentally sent to your apartment by the fake picture internet escort agencies, that you have to go to a venue where you can see what the girls look like in advance from the beginning, so you can focus your energies on trying to get the most beautiful girl available for P4P. This meant mongering in nightclubs and strip clubs or shopping malls or the street. There were no shopping malls or streets that I knew of that had a high concentration of Working Girls, so that meant it was best to focus on the nightclubs and strip clubs for p4p.

In the days of River Palace when I was there in 2009 and 2010, it had been possible to get a fairly hot looking girl for $200/2hours if one was good at negotiating and one was prepared to play the waiting game and see if the beauty would come down in her price as the night wore on and the prospects grew thinner. Sometimes it was the guy who caved in because the girl was just too beautiful to lose and the guy went up to $300/2 hours, which was high, but not unbearably so for a really beautiful girl. Sometimes it was the girl who caved in and lowered her price. There were different angles to be played, such as taking numbers so as to meet the next afternoon at discounted rates, or asking for a quicker hour session at a lower price while the night was young, so the girl could get back to RP and still have a whole night there. During this period that a $200/2hrs price was possible, nobody was speaking about going to strip clubs and nobody was reporting going to strip clubs, because prices at strip clubs were higher.

Then the River Palace was towed away toward end of 2010, and it was a true mongering disaster. All of us visiting Kiev at the end of 2010 and beginning of 2011 were thankful for the numbers we had stored in our telephones of RP girls we had liked and fucked on prior visits. And in addition to prior RP girls, I began to put more effort into top-modals. Com and other websites, as well as visit the recommended regular nightclubs looking for the groups of hot WG's that used to frequent the RP, to no avail. I was searching for guidance on where to get really hot p4p girls in Kiev on this thread during the period at the end of 2010 and beginning of 2011, but there was nothing of substance posted.

So I experimented on my own with escort websites, went to nightclubs from time to time and continued to see my old RP girlfriends. Then out of boredom one time I decided to visit a strip club. At the time I actually had no idea that such a thing as "take out" was possible. So I saw a girl I liked and the manager asked if I want her to sit with me. I said yes but the girl didn't speak English So I bought her a drink. Then the manager suggested a private dance, which I did, and it was great. And then we came back to sit at my table and she say there, really pretty and with the biggest smile, but not saying anything. So I asked the manager,"what does she want from me?" His response was,"she wants you to take her home." "Really?" I said."That Is possible?" I asked."Yes, it Is possible for $300." I didn't bite that night, but the next night I returned to the strip club with the intent of finding the best looking dancer I could find and taking her home with me if possible. And so my education began.

Compared to the regular nightclubs where it was difficult to find a high concentration of hot WG's available for p4p in one spot, it was easy to go fishing in the strip club. And the prices too, were lower at the strip club ($300/3hrs) than what the really hot working girls at the nightclubs were asking ($400 and $500 and sometimes negotiable down to $300/2hrs). And so I lamented the loss of all the River Palace girls and the lack of direction in this thread about where to go and how to best monger in the post- River Palace era in my first post entitled something like "where have all the river palace girls gone?".

Then I focused in on figuring out the way to get the best result at the lowest priced venue where you could see the girls in advance, which was the strip club. This premise that the strip club was the lowest priced venue for high level p4p girls that you could see in advance remained unchallenged in 2011. No one was posting different information about prices. Until about March of 2012 when a vehement opposition to the strip club option was espoused. It was claimed that the strip club was not the cheapest venue, and one should not go there and pay more, when the same or better results could be had in the regular nightclubs. This claim is either factually true or false.

But I took note of the vehemence with which it is stated. Why would anyone lie about such a fact when the truth is easy to discover with time. It is this inference that leads me to assume that he is telling the truth about the prices being lower in the nightclubs and it being better to monger in the nightclubs than in the strip club. Why else the vehemence? It doesn't make sense. So my conclusion is that those who are saying that prices for P4p are lower in the regular nightclubs than in the strip club, really believe what they are saying. So I will give them the benefit of the doubt, until I arrive for my next visit and see for myself where the prices are cheaper and which venue makes it easier and more efficient to find what one is looking for.

All of us can puff a little or even exaggerate sometimes to make a point. If he is relying on his 1200 telephone nUmbers in any way to get girls it would. Of be a fair comparison to what a newbie can expect and can achieve, and this will become apparent over time. So the more mongers that go to the regular nightclubs and post action reports the clearer and more detailed a picture we will have. Let the truth be accepted from the one who says it, whoever he may be.

LJ

[QUOTE=AColonizer; 1287132]It is five years I have already described several detailed reports about everything men need. And I repeat the same things. Men should study methods and experiences by past reports. There is no worst blind person than who doesn't want to see. I understand your mood. Unfortunately there is no better solution: practice bastardy, practice bastardy, practice bastardy.

"at least most guys are into getting BBBJ" it is clear you haven't read any words of my reports.[/QUOTE]Acolonizer,

I've read everything you've written this year and last since beginning of 2011. And Of course I know you are interested in far more advanced services than a BBBJ. I thought that was apparent from what I wrote to you. What I was asking you to do was to describe the conversation you have with the girl. You say you did this already. How far back do I have to go? I know your bottom line opinion. I was asking for a play by play negotiation of the sort that could illustrate what to say for newbies. Saying "practice being a bastard" is only a summary. It doesn't show the way. If you haven't posted the more detailed type of report in the past two years, perhaps it's time to go into it in more detail again, or perhaps at least provide links to your older reports that you think are instructive.

I don't disagree to many postings here that the quality at Rio really suffered. For me I like the skinny ones so it was a shame to see what happend there. About 60% of the girls are L or XL (for my eyes). So today I went there just to meet a buddy and Manager Sergey told me to go to the basement because some new girls arrived. And it was nice to see that there were at least 3 new young skinny beautiful ones not having any experience. I asked for Ludmilla come to my table, she speaks some English but not good. I thought she is only doing private dances but as I asked her to come with me to my apartment she sayed yes. Unfortunately I was not able to take her out as I had other things to do. But at least good to know that I saw at least 6 new (nice) girls (the other ones upstairs). Just to let you know.

[QUOTE=Kirch;1287246]I don't disagree to many postings here that the quality at Rio really suffered. For me I like the skinny ones so it was a shame to see what happend there. About 60% of the girls are L or XL (for my eyes). So today I went there just to meet a buddy and Manager Sergey told me to go to the basement because some new girls arrived. And it was nice to see that there were at least 3 new young skinny beautiful ones not having any experience. I asked for Ludmilla come to my table, she speaks some English but not good. I thought she is only doing private dances but as I asked her to come with me to my apartment she sayed yes. Unfortunately I was not able to take her out as I had other things to do. But at least good to know that I saw at least 6 new (nice) girls (the other ones upstairs). Just to let you know.[/QUOTE]Kirch, could you write here all the hotties names you met in Rio and mandarin, and their attitude and if they are available for takeout or not. You can spik those ones that stay longer at your place in order not to make them troubles. Information can be very helpful.

Thank you

Hello, can anyone recommend any other apartment rentals besides Kiev apts? Fairly urgent. Thank you

[url]http://www.ukr-apartments.kiev.ua/[/url]

I always book here. Ask for Taras or Veronika. Don't be shocked by the prices, when it comes to an offer it was always cheaper than posted on their webpage.

[QUOTE=Sean EZ;1287478]Hello, can anyone recommend any other apartment rentals besides Kiev apts? Fairly urgent. Thank you[/QUOTE]

Kiev girls love to order a pizza from mamamia and cuddle on the couch while watching a movie.

She pays for the taxi when you go somewhere? So wrong.

[QUOTE=Kirch;1287159]One story at the end. I have met a girl here one year ago. She is working at a strip club. I won't say which club, it's not RIO. She is really nice and didn't believe me I like her. I spend every time I am here some time with her and she finally falled in love with me. Or whatever it is. I don't pay money anymore and we have a great time. We order pizza from mamamia and she pays for the taxi when we go some where.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cruiser D;1285958]TBH, I should probably delete 600 numbers and add a new 600. :)[/QUOTE]BTW, how do you manage 1200 girls numbers on your smartphone?

I have barely 100 girls numbers and I already get lost among a good dozen of Tatianas, some 10 Ksenias, a big handfull of Evgenias, ect. I can't imagine how I could handle 12 x more.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D;1287668]She pays for the taxi when you go somewhere? So wrong.[/QUOTE]Seconded. This is against all the rules of male courtesy. Sounds strange anyway, I have never ever met a slavic girl who could endure such a boorish behavior. Weird.

[QUOTE=Kirch;1287246]I asked for Ludmilla come to my table, she speaks some English but not good. I thought she is only doing private dances but as I asked her to come with me to my apartment she sayed yes.[/QUOTE]I will be in Kiev in two weeks and as I read in this forum, Rio is the most easy way to find a hottie.

Go home with me. I also learned, price will be $300 to 400, but there are still some questions, I could not find the answer here till now. Is it necessary, to book private dances before you can go out with a girl? And if so, how much of this dances I have to spend out before I can leave? And is there any chance to find out, who finally will go out? I am afraid I waste a lot of time (and money) for chatting and private dances with girls, they finally will not follow me to my hotel.

Hope you experienced guys can give me some help for that.

Thanks

[QUOTE=LilJoey; 1287212]I don't need to grill anyone. Those who can enhance the thread by giving action reports showing in detail where to go, how to seek out or spot WG's, how to approach, how to speak, what to say, etc. Should do so, because it seems otherwise, newbies cannot easily succeed in the regular nightclubs.

LJ[/QUOTE]LJ. Anyone who can't spot WGS in Clubs in KIEv, must be a complete newbie from Salt Lake City UTAH, or a Dumb Ass Retard.

WGS will approach you, or give you the looks.

So very obvious. It doesn't need Action Reports in Detail.

How to Speak, What to Say no diferent from here below. .

[url]http://www.wikihow.com/Pick-Up-a-Girl-in-a-Club[/url]

Note Points 11, 12, 13. Be friendly and grease the palm of the Bouncer with 100UAH, and he will sort you out.

I do point 13. Which is the best one, ie a Really Attractive Bubbly Wingwoman and not just in Kiev. It helps a lot if she is BI.

Gave this very obvious tip to Asian Chaos, and he posted later a quick clear success with the WG that his female guide chatted up for him in Buddha Bar.

He posted later that not only he had the WG on the night, but he also banged his beautiful Guide on another night.

But when he was asked to provide the details of his Female Guide and the company that he used, he disappeared from the Kiev Thread.

You are asking leading questions in your detailed report, which I doubt you will ever get straight answers.

Simply because it means then that whoever answers you, have to PUT UP the INFO, including Digits, details etc. Is this your point in the report?

And if she is such a Hottie at the price said, why do they need to post about her.

Here if they don't want to share? You know the answer.

And another question to you. I would really raise my hat 4 you, if I was wearing one for all the time & effort that you put in guiding newbies in Kiev Mongering and the grey area of WGS in normal Clubs and their prices. BUT quite honestly why dp ypu Bother being the KIEV SEX SAMARITAN to everyone here.

I would have summed up what you said in your detailed report in 5 words only.

PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

And you just carry on enjoying your mongering in the ways and the budget that suit you.

The others can go and find their own pussies.

,

[QUOTE=LilJoey; 1287212]I don't need to grill anyone. Those who can enhance the thread by giving action reports showing in detail where to go, how to seek out or spot WG's, how to approach, how to speak, what to say, etc. Should do so, because it seems otherwise, newbies cannot easily succeed in the regular nightclubs.

LJ[/QUOTE]LJ. Anyone who can't spot WGS in Clubs in KIEv, must be a complete newbie from Salt Lake City UTAH, or a Dumb Ass Retard.

WGS will approach you, or give you the looks.

So very obvious. It doesn't need Action Reports in Detail.

How to Speak, What to Say no diferent from here below. .

[url]http://www.wikihow.com/Pick-Up-a-Girl-in-a-Club[/url]

Note Points 11, 12, 13. Be friendly and grease the palm of the Bouncer with 100UAH, and he will sort you out.

I do point 13. Which is the best one, ie a Really Attractive Bubbly Wingwoman and not just in Kiev. It helps a lot if she is BI.

Gave this very obvious tip to Asian Chaos, and he posted later a quick clear success with the WG that his female guide chatted up for him in Buddha Bar.

He posted later that not only he had the WG on the night, but he also banged his beautiful Guide on another night.

But when he was asked to provide the details of his Female Guide and the company that he used, he disappeared from the Kiev Thread.

You are asking leading questions in your detailed report, which I doubt you will ever get straight answers.

Simply because it means then that whoever answers you, have to PUT UP the INFO, including Digits, details etc. Is this your point in the report?

And if she is such a Hottie at the price said, why do they need to post about her.

Here if they don't want to share? You know the answer.

And another question to you. I would really raise my hat 4 you, if I was wearing one for all the time & effort that you put in guiding newbies in Kiev Mongering and the grey area of WGS in normal Clubs and their prices. BUT quite honestly why dp ypu Bother being the KIEV SEX SAMARITAN to everyone here.

I would have summed up what you said in your detailed report in 5 words only.

PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

And you just carry on enjoying your mongering in the ways and the budget that suit you.

The others can go and find their own pussies.

,

[QUOTE=Prosal; 1287859]BTW, how do you manage 1200 girls numbers on your smartphone?

I have barely 100 girls numbers and I already get lost among a good dozen of Tatianas, some 10 Ksenias, a big handfull of Evgenias, ect. I can't imagine how I could handle 12 x more.[/QUOTE]The Answer My Friend Is Blowing In The Wind. LOL

[QUOTE=NewMongerer; 1287893]I will be in Kiev in two weeks and as I read in this forum, Rio is the most easy way to find a hottie.

Go home with me. I also learned, price will be $300 to 400, but there are still some questions, I could not find the answer here till now. Is it necessary, to book private dances before you can go out with a girl? And if so, how much of this dances I have to spend out before I can leave? And is there any chance to find out, who finally will go out? I am afraid I waste a lot of time (and money) for chatting and private dances with girls, they finally will not follow me to my hotel.

Hope you experienced guys can give me some help for that.

Thanks[/QUOTE]You claim you could not find the answer to the questions you ask. Did you read any of my reports from last year where it is all laid out for you? In the Reports of Distinction thread there are references to my reports on Rio where everything is explained. Do yourself a favor and don't be lazy. Read the thread going back at least to March of last year until now before you get to Kiev, and copy paste info you think I'd good into a summary document for you to refer to later.

Because the "interview" process with a p4p girl is so important to the outcome of a getting a good GFE experience, versus getting a bad experience, and applies anywhere (whether you are speaking with a p4p girl you summoned from mamba. Ru, or met in a nightclub, or you are trying to take out a dancer from a strip club) , and because you seem a bit clueless and in desperate need of guidance, I will give you some pointers, but at the same time say, there is no substitute to doing your homework and reading the thread back into at least last year.

The simple answer to your question is that how many private dances you choose to take with how many girls, is entirely up to. You can spend as little or as much as you want on private dances. The reason you might want to have any private dances, aside from its entirely entertainment value, is to check out how the girl responds to you and if she has a good chemistry with you.

You are thinking of taking her home, right? You are hoping for a GFE great experience, right? How do you know in advance how the girl will be with you later when you get her back to your apartment? You have to guess. That is why all the tools you have at your disposal to see what kind of girl she is and whether she has sexual "chemistry" with you are very important. The "interview" process with a p4p (pay for play) girl is extremely important.

So in addition to talking with her at your table and seeing if she is a friendly enough person, you also need to ask questions of her designed to give you information that will help you make a decision about guessing whether she will be a good experience. All this should precede taking her for a private dance. In the private dance you will also be able to test whether she lets you touch her at least in some places or if she is stand-off-ish and doesn't let you touch her at all. I always try to kiss her nipples and see if my tongue's ministrations can arouse her, while at the same time, if she does moan in arousal, try to brush my fingers across the part of her bikini under which her pussy is. If she lets, it's usually sure fire indication that she is into me and a good experience might ensue if I take her home.

You can use the services of the manager in each bar to help you avoid wasting time also. You can simply ask if a girl is dancer only, or if she goes out, or whether she speaks any English. If you don't want to bother the manager, you can get up and ask the girl her name and if she speaks any English while she is dancing on the pole. But don't talk too much with a girl, if you're not going to tip her at least 50 UAH, if it's a girl you are thinking of trying with. Asking if she is dancer only can be accomplished either directly, or through the manager, or while she sits at your table, your choice. The question is whether you should ask if she goes out before or after a private dance. I have had it occur more than one time that a very hot girl that I really wanted, at first said that she would not go out, and then after I resignedly took her into the private dance because I wanted to enjoy at least something from this sexy girl, and I did my tit sucking pussy fondling magic on her (gently and always with respect) it seems she changed her mind. She said later that she saw that I really liked her. I like to think that it was also because she saw I could turn her on. Anyway, the choice is yours.

Good luck,

LJ

[QUOTE=Prosal;1287859]BTW, how do you manage 1200 girls numbers on your smartphone?[/QUOTE]Easy. Become Delusional. And if you believe that, then you will believe any (Load Of Old Cobblers) thrown at you by Boring Old Farts.

[QUOTE=Prosal;1287859]BTW, how do you manage 1200 girls numbers on your smartphone?[/QUOTE]Become Delusional. And if you believe that, then you will believe any (Load Of Old Cobblers) Thrown at you by Old Boring Farts. LOL

Let's start from entrance. You enter Rio and have 3 options as they have 3 floors. One in the basement where you enter and 2 upstairs. Upstairs they have a bar and table area as well as VIP area. In the basement another table area. Right now for me the best one is in the basement if you look for the slim young ones. But once you have choosen your area you can walk around to find out by yourself. So if a Manager comes to pick you up once you entered it`s always good to give him 50. 100 griwna in order to get your own sofa / table and better attention. If you like a girl who is dancing you ask the manager if you can speak to her. After she has finished dancing she will come to your table. As far as I know the first 2-3 songs she seats at your table for free but it's always good to invite her for a drink (not expensive). After 2-3 songs she will be asked by someone to continue dancing and either she goes back or you pay 100 griwna to stay at your table. You don't need to invite her for a private dance! After chatting for a while you ask her if she wants to come with you and either she says yes and you pay USD 300 for 3 hrs to get her out or she says she is only doing private dances (means she doesn't like you or she is not doing take outs at all).

That's it. On the bill will appear another 100 griwna entrance fee you have to pay anyways.

Food and drinks are far cheaper than in European strip clubs. I always have Bacardi Cola and it's about 50 griwna.

[QUOTE=NewMongerer; 1287893]I will be in Kiev in two weeks and as I read in this forum, Rio is the most easy way to find a hottie.

Go home with me. I also learned, price will be $300 to 400, but there are still some questions, I could not find the answer here till now. Is it necessary, to book private dances before you can go out with a girl? And if so, how much of this dances I have to spend out before I can leave? And is there any chance to find out, who finally will go out? I am afraid I waste a lot of time (and money) for chatting and private dances with girls, they finally will not follow me to my hotel.

Hope you experienced guys can give me some help for that.

Thanks[/QUOTE]

Just just don't get my point (but anyways will never do) just a joke.

SHE wants to show me that she likes me and pays for the taxi or at least she wants to! May be you don't know this kind of girls. Good education etc. Again, just a joke.

[QUOTE=Prosal;1287862]Seconded. This is against all the rules of male courtesy. Sounds strange anyway, I have never ever met a slavic girl who could endure such a boorish behavior. Weird.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=NewMongerer; 1287893]I will be in Kiev in two weeks and as I read in this forum, Rio is the most easy way to find a hottie.

Go home with me. I also learned, price will be $300 to 400, but there are still some questions, I could not find the answer here till now. Is it necessary, to book private dances before you can go out with a girl? And if so, how much of this dances I have to spend out before I can leave? And is there any chance to find out, who finally will go out? I am afraid I waste a lot of time (and money) for chatting and private dances with girls, they finally will not follow me to my hotel.

Hope you experienced guys can give me some help for that.

Thanks[/QUOTE]Private lap dance is not mandatory for take out nor buying drinks for dancers. Private dances cost $25 for 2 songs and most time you could interview dancers for possible take out without buying any drinks. I suggest going there before 10pm, and weekdays.

I personally like to get a lap dances to get some clue on their performance once they are on your bed. I also enjoy getting lap dances from strippers, so it was no brainer for me. From my experiences in Rio, laps dances vary greatly from dancers to dancers. I took out a dancer who gave me an awsome private dance and she was also hot as hell. 8+ and she didn't disappoint once she was in my apartment, one of the my best experience with WG. I also was with couple a guys who has been in Rio quite a few times and non them got lap dances before taking a girl out. As I said on my previous report, Kiev is quite expensive for newbie, especially if you don't have 1800 numbers in your Android phone like Cruiser D, and prefer to have sex with above average looking girls. I could only wonder what kind of mutant looking girls are in his 1800 list in his phone.

Jerseyguy

[QUOTE=Kirch;1288037]May be you don't know this kind of girls. Good education etc[/QUOTE]You're talking out of your ass. One of my long-term Russian GFs has a Master of international law and is teacher at MGU. Another one is executive for Merck Moscow. Another one is sales manager at the most luxurious 5 stars hotel in St Pitersburg. Another one is divorced from a well-know oligarch. Ect.

[QUOTE=Barba; 1287065]1. I was in Vodka Bar and Shooters and the only thing missing from many wgs was a green sign around the neck stating the price.

2. So despite my limited experience of Kiev in specific, my tip to you LJ is not try to "recognize them" but to talk to them. All of them, one after another. Smile and ask "are you a girl that like some fun or are you more the conservative type that likes a long term relationship with a man?".

3. Good luck in exploring new and fun grounds where you do not only hunt lions that are sedated and placed on the savanna the night before you arrive with your sperm-gun.

4. If you are incapable of talking to unsedated females, I suggest you sedate yourself with some vodka instead. Better to get up on the horse a bit drunk, than to walk all your life.

B.[/QUOTE]Some great lines and good advice. Thank you.

1. A great line, but my experience on one foray to D'lux on a Saturday night in early 2011 was more like Poker Player 2's experience. I looked around the D'lux dance club for unattached females and looked for some clues they might be Working Girls, and it was not at all obvious to me. Is it possible there were no WG's there the night of my visit? Very unlikely. Although admittedly I spent most of my time trying to hit on girls on the circumference of the dance floor, and I have understood that I should have been hanging around the bar area more. Nevertheless, I did make several circuits through the bar area and was obviously unattached and looking, and no WG brought herself to my attention. So it seems that unexciting outcomes like what happened to Poker Player 2 on the date he posted about, or to myself in the visit to D'lux I just described, can happen. Believe me I am observant enough to know what a WG on the make looks like, and had no problem spotting them at Buddha Bar. So your advice to simply begin hitting on all girls with a differentiator line that will give any WG an opportunity to respond, is good advice, although it sounds like a lot of work.

2. See above.

3. A great line that I am savoring each time I read it, and then laughing at myself, the Great Hunter. LOL.

4. A nicely turned phrase, and solid advice that I've been following to get the edge off at any setting that involves hitting on hit girls in a social setting, where a man faces the risk of rejection.

LJ

[QUOTE=Jojosun; 1287984]LJ. Anyone who can't spot WGS in Clubs in KIEv, must be a complete newbie from Salt Lake City UTAH, or a Dumb Ass Retard.

WGS will approach you, or give you the looks.

So very obvious. It doesn't need Action Reports in Detail.

How to Speak, What to Say no diferent from here below. .

[url]http://www.wikihow.com/Pick-Up-a-Girl-in-a-Club[/url]

Note Points 11, 12, 13. Be friendly and grease the palm of the Bouncer with 100UAH, and he will sort you out.

I do point 13. Which is the best one, ie a Really Attractive Bubbly Wingwoman and not just in Kiev. It helps a lot if she is BI.

Gave this very obvious tip to Asian Chaos, and he posted later a quick clear success with the WG that his female guide chatted up for him in Buddha Bar.

He posted later that not only he had the WG on the night, but he also banged his beautiful Guide on another night.

But when he was asked to provide the details of his Female Guide and the company that he used, he disappeared from the Kiev Thread.

You are asking leading questions in your detailed report, which I doubt you will ever get straight answers.

Simply because it means then that whoever answers you, have to PUT UP the INFO, including Digits, details etc. Is this your point in the report?

And if she is such a Hottie at the price said, why do they need to post about her.

Here if they don't want to share? You know the answer.

And another question to you. I would really raise my hat 4 you, if I was wearing one for all the time & effort that you put in guiding newbies in Kiev Mongering and the grey area of WGS in normal Clubs and their prices. BUT quite honestly why dp ypu Bother being the KIEV SEX SAMARITAN to everyone here.

I would have summed up what you said in your detailed report in 5 words only.

PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

And you just carry on enjoying your mongering in the ways and the budget that suit you.

The others can go and find their own pussies.

U.

, [/QUOTE]In general I don't perceive of myself as the "Kiev Sex Samaritan" in answering newbies questions. I think that is what being a member of a hobby forum is supposed to be. One is supposed to post their experiences to provide a pool of information for the other forum members, and one who has some experience is supposed to try to be helpful to newer members within reasonable limits of patience. Posters should try to make their posts entertaining and / or informative. I don't like the cat fighting or the ornery approach of some to others that is divisive and counter productive to the purposes of the forum. Why do I bother to be helpful to others? It's in the nature of the forum, as well as that I enjoy writing about and reliving some of my experiences.

As to action reports, I am not asking anyone to give up "digits" or contact information of some hotties they found and may want to keep for themselves. However, I do think that if the pool of information on the thread does not include action reports by members who claim to have gotten dates with hot WG's for $200/2 hrs or less, then a reasonable inference should be drawn that the facts are otherwise.

LJ

[QUOTE=Jojosun; 1283715]"Mid Eastern Girls in Odessa too ". Are you sure?

It begs the question, what the hell are they doing there/

Irish Lad is another expert on the subject and know Odessa well.

It would be interesting to hear their comments on the subject.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I remember in Odessa meeting several Middle Eastern and Chinese. They are there for different reasons but a pssoible one in this case is some educational reason. You might find there's a reknowned clothes designer academy or something simlar. A few Chinese we met are there to learn Russian. Or so they said)

[QUOTE=Poker Player 2;1285473]At about 12:30 Am on Tuesday May 22nd. 2012, I went to Shooters club. I arrived with a taxi and I noticed there were a few girls waiting outside to get in. I was shown unusual respect and courtesy by all the staff at shooters. Security wished me a good evening and the doorman opened the club door and invited me to go in. There is a100 UAH fee to get in and you are given a juice can and a receipt to get either whisky or vodka from the bar inside. I missed the KASSA sign and the hostess sweetly led me to the window to pay. The disco is not large and is terribly crowded. It was previously reported that the bar is owned by some Scottish folks but I have on good authority that it is now owned by a Turkish man called Ozzy! Certainly, our Turkish\Middle Eastern friends appeared to be well represnted in the Disco on this evening. The place if full of young, mostly beautiful girls dressed to impress but perhaps not the most appropriate place for a man of my age. Nevertheless, I tried to engage two different girls in dance and conversation who appeared unattended only to be ignored. I went upstairs to the resturant which I understand has good food but I was not hungry and I also went to the bar downstairs which was mostly empty. I had a beer and was also given a choice of vodka or whiskey. I suggest you go with the whiskey; the Vodka, I did not like. The beer which I paid for appeared to be rather less expensive than other clubs. There are many things I do not get about this club- I am sure that is a function of me being uninformed mostly. There is face control but I saw many girls and boys dressed in Jeans inside. In general, I did not get the fuss about this club. What distinguishes this club for some members, I can not tell.![/QUOTE]What distinuishes this club? Tuesday night and terribly crowded.

Ozzie doesn't own the club. Your "good authority" is wrong.

Face control in shooters doesn't mean "Armani". It's a fun club where drunks are excluded.

The names are stored - First Name Age City and SP if she is a semi pro. For example Natsha 21KyivSP or Dasha 20Sevastopol.

A photo of the girl is a must, it pops up when she calls or sms's.

I use ms outlook to flesh out information on the girls I have known for a while. Birthday, etc.

Technology is awesome.

Oh, and that is just my Ukrainian phone. My US phone has around 300 contacts for girls in it. It's a WM 6 phone. Haven't been spending too much time in the US - I need to upgrade.

Not too many girls in my Middle East phone. :(

[QUOTE=Prosal; 1287859]BTW, how do you manage 1200 girls numbers on your smartphone?

I have barely 100 girls numbers and I already get lost among a good dozen of Tatianas, some 10 Ksenias, a big handfull of Evgenias, ect. I can't imagine how I could handle 12 x more.[/QUOTE]

On a closely related tangent.

On one hand. What kind of Ukrainian girl would ask you to pay for her taxi (coming and going from a date)? It's just not something a good girl would do.

On the other hand, maybe it's not a big deal assuming it's 50 uah and not 500.

I dunno, it's just not something a serious good Ukrainian girl does, maybe once she is your girlfriend.

[QUOTE=Prosal;1287862]Seconded. This is against all the rules of male courtesy. Sounds strange anyway, I have never ever met a slavic girl who could endure such a boorish behavior. Weird.[/QUOTE]

Go to D'Lux and hook up with a semi pro. You'll have a better time.

[QUOTE=NewMongerer; 1287893]I will be in Kiev in two weeks and as I read in this forum, Rio is the most easy way to find a hottie.

Go home with me. I also learned, price will be $300 to 400, but there are still some questions, I could not find the answer here till now. Is it necessary, to book private dances before you can go out with a girl? And if so, how much of this dances I have to spend out before I can leave? And is there any chance to find out, who finally will go out? I am afraid I waste a lot of time (and money) for chatting and private dances with girls, they finally will not follow me to my hotel.

Hope you experienced guys can give me some help for that.

Thanks[/QUOTE]

Where did all the River Palace girls go? The answer is still the same when I replied to you when you first asked. D'Lux. Why you ignored it then and ignore it now I have no idea, maybe your apartment is right next to Rio and you find it easier to go there.

All the girls weren't towed away with The Boat. They just went to other clubs. Actually they had been rotating with other clubs for quite some time before the Boat went away.

[QUOTE=LilJoey; 1287212]Compared to the regular nightclubs where it was difficult to find a high concentration of hot WG's available for p4p in one spot, it was easy to go fishing in the strip club. And the prices too, were lower at the strip club ($300/3hrs) than what the really hot working girls at the nightclubs were asking ($400 and $500 and sometimes negotiable down to $300/2hrs). And so I lamented the loss of all the River Palace girls and the lack of direction in this thread about where to go and how to best monger in the post- River Palace era in my first post entitled something like "where have all the river palace girls gone?".

Then I focused in on figuring out the way to get the best result at the lowest priced venue where you could see the girls in advance, which was the strip club. This premise that the strip club was the lowest priced venue for high level p4p girls that you could see in advance remained unchallenged in 2011. No one was posting different information about prices. Until about March of 2012 when a vehement opposition to the strip club option was espoused. It was claimed that the strip club was not the cheapest venue, and one should not go there and pay more, when the same or better results could be had in the regular nightclubs. This claim is either factually true or false.

But I took note of the vehemence with which it is stated. Why would anyone lie about such a fact when the truth is easy to discover with time. It is this inference that leads me to assume that he is telling the truth about the prices being lower in the nightclubs and it being better to monger in the nightclubs than in the strip club. Why else the vehemence? It doesn't make sense. So my conclusion is that those who are saying that prices for P4p are lower in the regular nightclubs than in the strip club, really believe what they are saying. So I will give them the benefit of the doubt, until I arrive for my next visit and see for myself where the prices are cheaper and which venue makes it easier and more efficient to find what one is looking for.

All of us can puff a little or even exaggerate sometimes to make a point. If he is relying on his 1200 telephone nUmbers in any way to get girls it would. Of be a fair comparison to what a newbie can expect and can achieve, and this will become apparent over time. So the more mongers that go to the regular nightclubs and post action reports the clearer and more detailed a picture we will have. Let the truth be accepted from the one who says it, whoever he may be.

LJ[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Kirch; 1288037]Just just don't get my point (but anyways will never do)

SHE wants to show me that she likes me and pays for the taxi or at least she wants to! May be you don't know this kind of girls. Good education etc. Again, just a joke.[/QUOTE]Achtung, Achtung, London Calling.

LOL. You are not Liljoey (The Master Of All Disguises) , with yet another disguise and script, are you.

Climamxnow, Muddy 7, and others have confused me lately, LOL.

I am the one here who gets your point. The kind of girl you are talking about does exist, and she could have fallen for you in a big way. So she settles for a night in with a Pizza and she pays for the taxi.

A beautiful UA girl in KIEV, who as you say was an ex Stripper. And not only you get to Ride her for free, but she pays for you and her for Taxi rides as well.

What a better love story than that. Hey "Gone With The Wind " in KIev.

Not for me though. For a start I don't like to spend a night in Kiev slumped on a sofa eating Pizza for dinner, even with a girl. And secondly I wouldn't let a woman pay for a taxi ride. It will end up costing me more. .

Even the US$300 plus spent at RIO (Which I would never do) would seem a bargain then, LOL.

But on the other hand, if as you say she is of "Good Education " she could be a Conniving, Scheming woman on a mission, disguising herself as if Butter wouldn't melt in her mouth.

These kind of women do exist as well. Every one loves a bargain when they see one,

But it could be a classic case of "Cents Wise Dollars Foolish ". .

BTW. You have a good sense of HUMOR for a German, is it an Acquired one? LOL.

Or is it a case of " I have ways of making you Laugh " LOL.

Auf. Wiedersehen.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D; 1288276]The names are stored. First Name Age City and SP if she is a semi pro. For example Natsha 21KyivSP or Dasha 20Sevastopol.

A photo of the girl is a must, it pops up when she calls or sms's.

I use ms outlook to flesh out information on the girls I have known for a while. Birthday, etc.

Technology is awesome.

Oh, and that is just my Ukrainian phone. My US phone has around 300 contacts for girls in it. It's a WM 6 phone. Haven't been spending too much time in the US. I need to upgrade.

Not too many girls in my Middle East phone. .[/QUOTE]I only keep the phone numbers of long-term GFs, or "prospects" that I am almost sure to visit within the next months, or of girls with who I have "relationship building" on a large scale. I could have kept many many numbers of one night stands or of girls with who I've had short adventures, but it would have been only to boost my own ego, which I don't need. That said, as usual to each its own.

[QUOTE=Jojosun. .

BTW. You have a good sense of HUMOR for a German, is it an Acquired one? LOL.

Or is it a case of " I have ways of making you Laugh " LOL.

Auf. Wiedersehen.[/QUOTE]Kirch, LOL, it is not a case "VEE have Vays of making you Laugh" is it.

No offense intended, but I am in the middle of a Street Party celebrating with thousands of Londoners of all colors and sizes Her Majesty's Diamond Jubilee. Year. .

Everyone is pissed drunk, and in doing this they are taking the [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] out of every country across the sea and the occean, including my country of Birth across the Atlantic.

Before I sign of for today, When are going to RIO again.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D; 1288288]Where did all the River Palace girls go? The answer is still the same when I replied to you when you first asked. D'Lux. Why you ignored it then and ignore it now I have no idea, maybe your apartment is right next to Rio and you find it easier to go there.

All the girls weren't towed away with The Boat. They just went to other clubs. Actually they had been rotating with other clubs for quite some time before the Boat went away.[/QUOTE]Cruiser D, I would not ignore you. In my trips at beginning of 2011, I went straightaways to clubs like Avalon and Buddha Bar, and then when D'lux became a happening place, I went there to check it out too. At the time I wrote about the difficulties I had in finding the p4p WG's at D'lux, and how there were not so many people in general at Avalon at the time I visited, let alone obvious WG's, and how I found some but not very many WG's at Buddha Bar when I went. Later I found out through exchanges and info posted here on the thread that I was probably at Buddha Bar too early in the evening, and at D'lux I had made the mistake of spending too much time on the dance floor area and not enough time at the bar area. So I had an experience at regular nightclubs back in 2011 that was similar to Poker Player 2's experience at Shooters that he recently posted about. Even allowing for these mistakes, it is clear that there was no location where hot WG's were gathering in anything remotely resembling the large numbers they had gathered each night at RP. I was told by a WG from RP whose number I had that many girls had gone to Moscow to ply their trade at pricey places like Night Flight. Wherever they went, they were not evident in the same large numbers they had been at RP.

I point out also that in a lot of posts you are talking about "semi-pros" rather than dedicated p4p WG's. Are we even talking about the same thing? I'm speaking of identifying, approaching and negotiating with "WG's" of the sort one would have found at River Palace.

Perhaps it would be helpful if you explain exactly what you mean by a semi-pro, and the process of identifying, approaching, seducing, negotiating is to be handled with such a type of girl?

I would suppose that the way to recognize a WG, and the approach to talking with her, would be different than the approach used with a "semi-pro" girl, since I am understanding the term "semi-pro" to mean someone who is not a WG and who did not go to the nightclub with the premeditated idea to pick up a guy and fuck him for money, but rather a regular girl who went to the nightclub to simply have fun with her friends, whom one approaches like one approaches any girl and has to "seduce" in the same way as one would have to seduce any regular girl, but that somewhere along the way, in the conversation the idea of having sex comes up, and she agrees, with the spoken or tacit understanding that she will receive some money afterward. Obviously, such a type of "semi-pro" has to be regarded as part of the general pool of females in a nightclub, and approached as such.

So identifying WG's in a nightclub would necessarily be a completely different thing, than trying to get regular girls who turn out to be interested in money, I. E. Semi-pro.

Also the existence of a semi-pro category raises a further inquiry about how to differentiate a semi-pro girl from a regular girl at a nightclub?

The few WG's that I did spot in the nightclubs in 2011 we're also not so hot for the most part. So whatever I found was not an adequate substitute for RP.

And the prices I was being quoted by those WG's whom I thought hot enough to bother talking to were higher than what was possible at RP, where I was usually able to get something good for $200/2hrs.

As for your claim since you began posting again in or about March 2012, that prices of $200/2hours or less are possible with very hot WG's (8+) in the regular nightclubs with not too much difficulty, and very importantly, not too much time, (making it a lower priced venue to monger than the strip clubs) , I have accepted it as a working premise for the time being, and do not ignore you, because I can see no sensible reason for you to have stated this if it weren't so. I have no way of assessing that claim save by ongoing credible action reports by members about their activities and successes in the nightclubs and the rates they report, or when I get a chance to try myself again in the nightclubs on a future visit to Kiev, maybe in September / October.

If you care to, I am sure there is interest in you discussing the courtship of the semi-pro girl, which I surmise make up a significant portion of your numbers in your by now famous Android phone. Including the definition of, how to identify her from among all the other regular girls in a nightclub, the best approach to use to succeed in scoring with her, or getting her to the point of discussing money, after which presumably she can be handled as a WG, etc.

LJ

Pro,

I tap more girls each month I am in Kiev than most guys do in their life (including the keyboard commando's on here). It's not my fault you don't have the skills to juggle or have the same interests as me. Oh, and I never lied about anything, when a girl asks me if I am seeing other girls I reply, Yes I do, want to join? Being with one or two, or ten or twenty girls is unfair. Who am I to deprive the poor girls of the world of Cruiser D.

Is my action in Ukraine as mind numbingly insane as it was when I was in 30's, no. Is it still super awesome, yes.

Could I shed some girls from my phone book, sure. I hope to get it down to 1k. It's not usual for me to drop $500 per month on phone cards while I am in Ukraine.

I thought a Mac Daddy like you in his fur lined 6500e pimp coat understood how the game is played.

[QUOTE=Prosal;1288335]I only keep the phone numbers of long-term GFs, or "prospects" that I am almost sure to visit within the next months, or of girls with who I have "relationship building" on a large scale. I could have kept many many numbers of one night stands or of girls with who I've had short adventures, but it would have been only to boost my own ego, which I don't need. That said, as usual to each its own.[/QUOTE]

LilJoey,

It's funny how you should mention how hard it is to identify Pros and semi pros.

Any girl sitting at the bar by herself is a pro.

Any girl being overly friendly to a 40+ year old foreigner is more than likely a pro or semi pro.

On any night that I go to Shooters I see about 20 or so girls I know to be semi pro's or pro's. Some girls are just out to have a good time. Some girls will like you, date you for free and fuck you for free. Some girls will like you but for $100 they will like you a lot more. It's like that in all the clubs in Kiev, heck. It's like that in most of the clubs of the world. Prostitution is no longer overtly allowed in Shooter and hasn't been for quite some time, the girls are shown the door and banned if caught plying that trade. So all you lunk heads fresh off the plane headed to Shooter's looking for ho's go to D'Lux, Sky Bar, Arena, Vodka Bar.

It is always a case of YMMV, some girls will consider you marriage material, some fun fling material, some a walking ATM and some won't want to talk to you at all for various reasons. Heck, half the girls I dated when I first started coming to Kyiv from websites like elenasmodels were moonlighting as semi pros but they all considered me marriage material so I got to ride for free. 'Hey, Vika, that certainly is a nice $2000 notebook computer you have. How did a girl from Lugansk going to university on a full scholarship in Kyiv afford that? What, you can't meet me tonight because you going out with your friends? Cool, see you tomorrow. ' Do'h.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D;1288728]I thought a Mac Daddy like you in his fur lined 6500e pimp coat understood how the game is played.[/QUOTE]I do. Nonetheless I have no proclivity for doing things for the only purpose to boost my own ego, like keeping 1200 girls phone numbers in my smartphone. This kind of thing sounds to me also rather like a sign of some deep self-distrust, but well, I'm not shrink. In fact, I have so much self confidence that what I fancy the most is hitting a new destination WITHOUT any number.

Self grandiosity is seldom flattering, but just for your information about my "game":

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?1474-Chisinau&p=438893&viewfull=1#post438893[/url]

[QUOTE=LilJoey; 1288199]In general I don't perceive of myself as the "Kiev Sex Samaritan" in answering newbies questions. I think that is what being a member of a hobby forum is supposed to be. One is supposed to post their experiences to provide a pool of information for the other forum members, and one who has some experience is supposed to try to be helpful to newer members within reasonable limits of patience. Posters should try to make their posts entertaining and / or informative. I don't like the cat fighting or the ornery approach of some to others that is divisive and counter productive to the purposes of the forum. Why do I bother to be helpful to others? It's in the nature of the forum, as well as that I enjoy writing about and reliving some of my experiences.

As to action reports, I am not asking anyone to give up "digits" or contact information of some hotties they found and may want to keep for themselves. However, I do think that if the pool of information on the thread does not include action reports by members who claim to have gotten dates with hot WG's for $200/2 hrs or less, then a reasonable inference should be drawn that the facts are otherwise.

LJ[/QUOTE]LJ,

If I agreed with you and the others on the above, we'd all be wrong for the folowing reasons.

1. Hot dates with hot WG's can be had for $200/2 hrs or less in normal clubs. It is not just fantasy claims by some members. .

Remember we are talking US200 and not $20.

Problem is that you are asking for "Action Reports " without "Giving Up Digits or Contact Information "

Question will arise what kind of action reports do you want, how to chat them up, how to negotiate, what one does with them in the sack.

And how is this going to help, say an international which I am sure sophisticated monger such as yourself? What tips or Pointers are you going to get out of Action Reports without Digitis and Links.

2. Really its a case of Catch 22 Situation. To prove the claims of hot WG's at the prices stated, one needs exact pointers. .

And to post without them, doesn't mean at all "I do think that if the pool of information on the thread does not include action reports by members who claim to have gotten dates with hot WG's for $200/2 hrs or less, then a reasonable inference should be drawn that the facts are otherwise." As you stated above.

The facts are US$200 / hours is a lot of money to pay for Sex in KIEV, and this is well evidenced by posters here, and not just by one. We are not talking small change.

If one has found hotties and wants to keep for themselves, fair enough and quite reasonable to do and to expect. .

Why should he post specific info on the fruit of his mongering that cost him a lot of effort and money.

But on the other hand just posting Prick Teasing info on actual conquests without specifics, is just Bragging.

I would rather remain silent and be thought a Bragger, than to speak without specifics and remove all doubt. .

LJ. With all due respect to what you are saying here about trying to help newbies into finding the Hot WG's at the best prices $200/2 hours, you are not comparing like for like. Ie between WGs or semi pros in normal clubs and strippers.

What works for one doesn't work for the other monger. .

And the success rate with hot semi pros in clubs, doesn't mean that the other monger will score easily.

This is so obvious.

Best mongers for semi pros in clubs, are the ones who look as if they don't actually need to get laid on the night. .

If I were you, I wouldn't ask for "Action Reports " in clubs, but I would ask for the Poster's Persona and brief details. This will give a much better explanation to your points. .

In conclusion. Your search and research is no closer to finding the Hot Wg's, than when you first started in your First Report here "Where have all the River Palace Girls Gone ".

And the resonable inference that was drawn over time from your posts, is to look for similar quality in RIO. Strip Club.

Whether you enjoy the Lap Dances, the girls, the atmosphere, etc whatever "Shilling "LOL , its your business.

Its your money and your choice. No need really to explain your preferences.

.

Very simple.

Cheers.

Linking some guys report from 6 years ago? Talk about ego issues. Have you been holding that in reserve?

Like I said Pro, going to the hinterlands isn't a big trick. All you have to do is show up, be a westerner foreigner and speak English. You have it easy in that apparently some company pays you to go to these far off destinations.

I ply my skills in Kiev, NYC, Miami, Boston, not in WhereTheFuckIsItStan, who has game, Pro?

[QUOTE=Prosal; 1288745]I do. Nonetheless I have no proclivity for doing things for the only purpose to boost my own ego, like keeping 1200 girls phone numbers in my smartphone. This kind of thing sounds to me also rather like a sign of some deep self-distrust, but well, I'm not shrink. In fact, I have so much self confidence that what I fancy the most is hitting a new destination WITHOUT any number.

Self grandiosity is seldom flattering, but just for your information about my "game":

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?1474-Chisinau&p=438893&viewfull=1#post438893[/url][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cruiser D;1288890]I ply my skills in Kiev, NYC, Miami, Boston, not in WhereTheFuckIsItStan, who has game, Pro?[/QUOTE]You, undoubtedly. Neil Strauss is a clown compared to you. Never such a skilled pick-up artist has explored the FSU territories. From here I hear the 1200 girls of your phonebook desesperately screaming your name as ripping their panties. You're mysterious, magnetic, charismatic, seductive, socially and sexually dominant, sophisticated and educated. A Byronic Hero. A modern Petchorin. Feel better? (rolleyes)

Prosal.

You didn't get the message.

It was meant "Plying Skills in Boston, New York City, Miami, Kiev " ie at (TRIVIA NIGHTS ).

And you know what Prizes you win there,"Plying Skills ", Don't You.

1 KIEV at Baboon.

[url]http://www.brickellinfo.com/2011/04/12/trivia-tuesday-at-fado/.Fado[/url] In Miami.

[url]http://calendar.boston.com/boston_ma/events/trivia[/url]+night. Bell in Hand Tavern, Boston.

[url]hhttp://www.kyivpost.com/news/guide/general/detail/13673/.[/url]

[url]ttp://www.brickellinfo.com/2011/04/12/trivia-tuesday-at-fado/.[/url]

[url]http://thegaelpubnyc.com/main.html.Gael[/url] Pub New York City.

Trendy Londoners call such nights (BOLLOCKS NIGHT ). On a par with Bingo Nights.

YEAh, Loads of Bingo ladies to be pulled and added to a List as well.

[QUOTE=Prosal;1289098]You, undoubtedly. Neil Strauss is a clown compared to you. Never such a skilled pick-up artist has explored the FSU territories. From here I hear the 1200 girls of your phonebook desesperately screaming your name as ripping their panties. You're mysterious, magnetic, charismatic, seductive, socially and sexually dominant, sophisticated and educated. A Byronic Hero. A modern Petchorin. Feel better? (rolleyes)[/QUOTE]First, my apologies to you for my confrontational attitude and lack of understanding when you tried to call out that complete waste of money strip club.

Second, I am not one to support Prosal but some of your talk makes no sense to me. On one side you talk about great pickup skills and then on the other side you talk about women with such low esteem that you directly tell them you are dating others. Any quality in these girls of yours? I just don't get it.

No disrespect, I appreciate your posts.

Mamba has changed it's layout and search criteria, if it stays like this, then a very important tool is gone.

"Any quality in these 1200 girls of yours? I just don't get it.".

No Quality Stupid.

Some non-mongering friends and I will be going to the Ukraine this summer, to the beach. Any recommendations on what the best beach towns are? Towns that have hot clubs and lots of girls. Should we look closer to Odessa or closer to Simferopol? Also, any recommendations on nice resorts or hotels? Even expensive hotels and resorts are OK.

[QUOTE=Cherchezfemme;1289437]Some non-mongering friends and I will be going to the Ukraine this summer, to the beach. Any recommendations on what the best beach towns are? Towns that have hot clubs and lots of girls. Should we look closer to Odessa or closer to Simferopol? Also, any recommendations on nice resorts or hotels? Even expensive hotels and resorts are OK.[/QUOTE]I would not visit Ukraine for the beaches, I go for the bitches. If you have no language skills, I think you will find yourself lonely unless you look like a rock star.

[QUOTE=Cherchezfemme;1289437]Some non-mongering friends and I will be going to the Ukraine this summer, to the beach. Any recommendations on what the best beach towns are? Towns that have hot clubs and lots of girls. Should we look closer to Odessa or closer to Simferopol? Also, any recommendations on nice resorts or hotels? Even expensive hotels and resorts are OK.[/QUOTE]

I have heard from my Ukrainian friends that the beaches in the Crimea consist of rock and not ideal for fun. From pictures I see on facebook of them in the Crimea this seens to hold true. Odessa is a more appealing destination as there are better beaches there. However, if hanging at a beach and going to clubs are your thing then I would suggest Bulgaria, from what I have heard and read. It would be a better option, I think.

[QUOTE=CanadianBoy;1289533]I have heard from my Ukrainian friends that the beaches in the Crimea consist of rock and not ideal for fun. From pictures I see on facebook of them in the Crimea this seens to hold true. Odessa is a more appealing destination as there are better beaches there. However, if hanging at a beach and going to clubs are your thing then I would suggest Bulgaria, from what I have heard and read. It would be a better option, I think.[/QUOTE].

Very Good Suggestion.

Goden Sands, Sunny Beach, Bulgaria are much Better options.

Bulgaria is one of the cheapest options in Europe.

Clubs, bars, Strip Clubs, you name it.

Don't expect raving Bulgarian beauties, but the Scadinavian Females on Holiday are.

This summer you should get good bargains there.

Very Safe place as well

One great part about the defunct River Palace is that on weekends man of the girls were semi-pros: secretaries, nurses, administrative assistants, dentists, students, etc. Lots of babes in the 25-30 range who were otherwise regular pretty girls. Given the locale, it was obvious why they were there, so you were not at any risk of offending anyone by offering money. However, they also kept down the prices. They needed the money, not like the pros who just "liked" the money, and they were willing to be more reasonable. If they liked you, they had no qualms about undercutting the pros. In some ways, they were like any other girl at any other bar in the world, agreeing to a one-night stand, but instead of maybe getting a cab fare home, getting some sex and one week's wages in return. It seems that mix of pros and semi-pros is more difficult to find these days, except maybe at Avalon.

[QUOTE=Cherchezfemme;1289437]Some non-mongering friends and I will be going to the Ukraine this summer, to the beach. Any recommendations on what the best beach towns are? Towns that have hot clubs and lots of girls. Should we look closer to Odessa or closer to Simferopol? Also, any recommendations on nice resorts or hotels? Even expensive hotels and resorts are OK.[/QUOTE]My preference is Evpatoria, on the West Coast. Because of sandy beach (like most part of West Coast) , middle class local tourists (from UA and RF and BY) , good discos. Will be there this year, too. And it is not far from [url]www.kazantip-republic.com[/url]

Hotel, high class: [url]http://www.osteuropa-hotels.de/de/hotelDetails-for-Ukraine_Palace-1819.htm[/url]

Personally, my favourite is this one:

[url]http://crimeatourburo.ru/en/tour/info/106/[/url]

Both hotels close to the action;"Russkoye More" about 200m from the beach.

You might also book an appartment there "on the spot".

Other areas with sandy beaches and busy nightlife are Sudak and Feodossia on the South Coast. But when considering these ones, do NOT book a hotel in the centre, because too noisy.

Yalta nowadays is too expensive, only for (want to-be) oligarchs.

I would recommend to rent a car.

Of course, Odessa, which means Arkadia beach / nightlife area, is an alternative, but for my taste also a bit too expensive for the standard locals.

So it is rather difficult "to score".

But: Visit "Itaka" or "Ibiza" there, and you will know, where the beauty queens of UA have open air party time.

Simferopol will be almost dead during summer. Everybody is going to the beach area.

[QUOTE=CanadianBoy;1289533]I have heard from my Ukrainian friends that the beaches in the Crimea consist of rock and not ideal for fun. From pictures I see on facebook of them in the Crimea this seens to hold true.[/QUOTE]NOT true. The Western part of the South Coast is rocky, and the South of the West Coast.

However, there are also beach areas around Sevastopol. But the middle part of the West coast has sandy beaches, and the Eastern part of the South coast.

Especially to mention the rea around Evpatoria, Feodossia, Sudak with long, long, long sandy beaches.

Which are the areas for standard locals to make holidays. Upper class goes to Yalta, Alushta, Foros area.

[QUOTE=Cherchezfemme;1289437]Some non-mongering friends and I will be going to the Ukraine this summer, to the beach. Any recommendations on what the best beach towns are? Towns that have hot clubs and lots of girls. Should we look closer to Odessa or closer to Simferopol? Also, any recommendations on nice resorts or hotels? Even expensive hotels and resorts are OK.[/QUOTE]I went to Odessa about 1, 5 years ago to Kitesurf and monger and went to Kazantip last summer. I would say it was the worse beach I ever saw in my life, dirty overpriced and total unfriendly people who don't know how to even spell the word "service". At my visit to Odessa, I stayed only for 2 days instead of the planned week and left to Kiev and stayed there.

If you don't know Russian, then I really recommend to choose another destination for beach fun.

[QUOTE=Reiner Otto;1289674]Sudak[/QUOTE]Bastion hotel is nice, but not that heap, I paid last summer some 900 UAH, same price double or single room.

[url]http://www.hotel-bastion.info/[/url]

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1289450]I would not visit Ukraine for the beaches, I go for the bitches. If you have no language skills, I think you will find yourself lonely unless you look like a rock star.[/QUOTE]My friends speak Russian, I don't.

Come on, are you saying in the summertime I won't find one girl on vacation interested in an americanski? Even if I'm not a rock star? We're all in our 30s, reasonably good-looking and fashion-conscious and with money. My friends have the $$, not me. But the girls don't need to know that!

I'll be there about 5-6 days and I've decided that if I haven't had any luck after 3 days, I'll look for p4p. I'll look here on the Odessa forum or ask the hotel staff..

[QUOTE=CanadianBoy;1289533]I have heard from my Ukrainian friends that the beaches in the Crimea consist of rock and not ideal for fun. From pictures I see on facebook of them in the Crimea this seens to hold true. Odessa is a more appealing destination as there are better beaches there. However, if hanging at a beach and going to clubs are your thing then I would suggest Bulgaria, from what I have heard and read. It would be a better option, I think.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the recommendation but my friends are the ones deciding where to go and since they speak Russian, they feel comfortable in Ukraine. Plus they think RUssian / Ukr / Belarus girls are the best.

They are paying for most of the trip so they are the ones deciding where to go.

[QUOTE=Reiner Otto; 1289674]My preference is Evpatoria, on the West Coast. Because of sandy beach (like most part of West Coast) , middle class local tourists (from UA and RF and BY) , good discos. Will be there this year, too. And it is not far from.

[url]www.kazantip-republic.com[/url]

Hotel, high class:

[url]http://www.osteuropa-hotels.de/de/hotelDetails-for-Ukraine_Palace-1819.htm[/url]

Personally, my favourite is this one:

[url]http://crimeatourburo.ru/en/tour/info/106/[/url]

Both hotels close to the action;"Russkoye More" about 200m from the beach.

You might also book an appartment there "on the spot".

Other areas with sandy beaches and busy nightlife are Sudak and Feodossia on the South Coast. But when considering these ones, do NOT book a hotel in the centre, because too noisy.

Yalta nowadays is too expensive, only for (want to-be) oligarchs.

I would recommend to rent a car.

Of course, Odessa, which means Arkadia beach / nightlife area, is an alternative, but for my taste also a bit too expensive for the standard locals.

So it is rather difficult "to score".

But: Visit "Itaka" or "Ibiza" there, and you will know, where the beauty queens of UA have open air party time.

Simferopol will be almost dead during summer. Everybody is going to the beach area.[/QUOTE]Reiner, thank you for the specific recommendations. I will forward them to my friend who is deciding (and paying for most of my trip). It will be up to him to decide what is expensive and what isn't. He works hard, makes very good money, and hasn't gone on a vacation in a long time, so he wants to PARTY and have a good time, even if it's expensive.

We'll see if it's difficult to score. I wouldn't go for beauty queens anyway, I'll leave that to my friends who speak Russian. I'll be happy with nice, normal girl.

[QUOTE=Cherchezfemme; 1289751]My friends speak Russian, I don't.

Come on, are you saying in the summertime I won't find one girl on vacation interested in an americanski? Even if I'm not a rock star? We're all in our 30s, reasonably good-looking and fashion-conscious and with money. My friends have the $$, not me. But the girls don't need to know that!

I'll be there about 5-6 days and I've decided that if I haven't had any luck after 3 days, I'll look for p4p. I'll look here on the Odessa forum or ask the hotel staff.[/QUOTE]Russian speaking friends are a huge plus. Good luck and please report back.

[QUOTE=Easyease; 1289689]I went to Odessa about 1, 5 years ago to Kitesurf and monger and went to Kazantip last summer. I would say it was the worse beach I ever saw in my life, dirty overpriced and total unfriendly people who don't know how to even spell the word "service". At my visit to Odessa, I stayed only for 2 days instead of the planned week and left to Kiev and stayed there.

If you don't know Russian, then I really recommend to choose another destination for beach fun.[/QUOTE]This post is exactly how I understood of the Ukranian Black Sea. I would only visit there if I already had a girlfriend.

[QUOTE=Kirch; 1287509][url]http://www.ukr-apartments.kiev.ua/[/url]

I always book here. Ask for Taras or Veronika. Don't be shocked by the prices, when it comes to an offer it was always cheaper than posted on their webpage.[/QUOTE]Thanks Kirch I'll give them a try next time.

I'm in Kiev right now it's good times as always. EuroCup is coming up not sure if it's worth staying or going to be a mad house of tourists, anyone has any thoughts on this? Was thinking about going to Kharkiv but they got games there also

Keep in mind that D'Lux and Area clubs and Shooters aren't the only clubs in Kiev. Kiev is a big city and not everyone can afford going to these places. A local connection took me to a club called I think Radio Disco Club (inside restaurant Mandarin) on the river on Sat night and it was packed with girls and I didn't see any foreigners and cheap drinks. On Monday went to Kalinka Malinka, about 30 min taxi ride from the city center, was also fairly busy. There you can hook up with college chicks for free unless you are looking strictly for P4P action

[QUOTE=Sean EZ;1289917]Keep in mind that D'Lux and Area clubs and Shooters aren't the only clubs in Kiev. Kiev is a big city and not everyone can afford going to these places. A local connection took me to a club called I think Radio Disco Club (inside restaurant Mandarin) on the river on Sat night and it was packed with girls and I didn't see any foreigners and cheap drinks. On Monday went to Kalinka Malinka, about 30 min taxi ride from the city center, was also fairly busy. There you can hook up with college chicks for free unless you are looking strictly for P4P action[/QUOTE].

I fully agree with you there. But the problem is with this thread is that P4P and semi Pros mongers are on it, as well as guys who are only looking for freebies and relationships. Different Folks seeking different stokes, as well as the different Age groups, cultures, etc. Are all on this thread.

What would work for Middle Aged Flash Harry, wouldn't work for youngish Modest unassuming Gary who is looking for a LTR.

Before hitting the clubs and not just in KIEV, one really needs to take a close look at himself in the mirror and see if a particular club is for him.

Whether this is D'lux, Arena or Shooters, or the any of the clubs above. .

Clubbing and Mongering needs to be done gracefully for anyone who is his late 30s plus.

It must be a bit of class act and image projection.

One scene of a movie (BREEZY) that stuck in my mind, when I was in my early teens with another girl same age as me, was of a Middle Aged Divorced burnt out man trying to groove it on the dance floor of a club full of young things.

My teen girlfriend at the time summed up her reaction after watching the movie, Freak, Pervert.

My reaction was (Didn't say it) , well there is hope in middle age.

This is the reaction of some of the friends of the (middle aged groover) when he itroduced them to his teeny love.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYybIMZxtyM.[/url]

The full film is on youtube.

Actually the movie (BREEZY) is one of the best that I have seen.

Worth watching slumped on the sofa in KIEV with a UA teenager with some pop corn and Coke.

Enjoy It.

[QUOTE=Sean EZ;1289917]Keep in mind that D'Lux and Area clubs and Shooters aren't the only clubs in Kiev. Kiev is a big city and not everyone can afford going to these places. A local connection took me to a club called I think Radio Disco Club (inside restaurant Mandarin) on the river on Sat night and it was packed with girls and I didn't see any foreigners and cheap drinks. On Monday went to Kalinka Malinka, about 30 min taxi ride from the city center, was also fairly busy. There you can hook up with college chicks for free unless you are looking strictly for P4P action[/QUOTE]I fully agree with you there. But the problem is with this thread is that P4P and semi Pros mongers are on it, as well as guys who are only looking for freebies and relationships. Different Folks seeking different stokes, as well as the different Age groups, cultures, etc. Are all on this thread.

What would work for Middle Aged Flash Harry, wouldn't work for youngish Modest unassuming Gary who is looking for a LTR.

Before hitting the clubs and not just in KIEV, one really needs to take a close look at himself in the mirror and see if a particular club is for him.

Whether this is D'lux, Arena or Shooters, or the any of the clubs above. .

Clubbing and Mongering needs to be done gracefully for anyone who is his late 30s plus.

It must be a bit of class act and image projection.

One scene of a movie (BREEZY) that stuck in my mind, when I was in my early teens with a girl same age as me, was of a Middle Aged Divorced burnt out man trying to groove it on the dance floor of a club full of young things.

My teen girlfriend at the time summed up her reaction after watching the movie, Freak, Pervert.

My reaction was (Didn't say it) , well there is hope in middle age.

This is the reaction of some of the friends of the (middle aged groover) when he itroduced them to his teeny love.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYybIMZxtyM.[/url]

The full film is on youtube.

Actually the movie (BREEZY) is one of the best that I have seen.

Worth watching slumped on the sofa in KIEV with a UA teenager with some pop corn and Coke.

Enjoy It.

There are some clubs in the world where no one bats an eyelid for the usual scene.

Mongers of a certain age seeking (Brrezy) girls in the clubs.

River Palace club was such a club, Where a Breezerman was actually sought and in demand.

At my age wrong half of 40s, I wouldn't hit clubs full of college girls or the highest % there are Non Pros semi pros. At least I wouldn't do it SOLO.

Can you get away with it in your Western Home Town?

[QUOTE=Jojosun; 1290078]At my age wrong half of 40s, I wouldn't hit clubs full of college girls or the highest % there are Non Pros At least I wouldn't do it SOLO.

Can you get away with it in your Western Home Town?[/QUOTE]Actually having said that, I do it in London and have done it in few clubs in the US as well. But I imake sure I am in a mixed crowd. Have my hair dyed, as well as having in tow a youngish bubbly attractive late 20s wingwoman who is BI.

2 is company, but a 3some is a hell of a Party.

Try it In KIEV if you have the time. Trust me it works there just as well.

If you are not into hunting in clubs, cash rich time poor, like a bit of stimulation before the main course, of a certain Age. Then the answer is a 3 letter Naked Venue called " ".

Have you guessed it.

Excuse the typing inthe 2 posts below, double typing of some words.

Drnking Pimms does that for me.

Are you saying that while wearing your fur trimed coat? I hope so. Please tell me you have the matching hat!

[QUOTE=Prosal;1289098]You, undoubtedly. Neil Strauss is a clown compared to you. Never such a skilled pick-up artist has explored the FSU territories. From here I hear the 1200 girls of your phonebook desesperately screaming your name as ripping their panties. You're mysterious, magnetic, charismatic, seductive, socially and sexually dominant, sophisticated and educated. A Byronic Hero. A modern Petchorin. Feel better? (rolleyes)[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cruiser D;1290259]Are you saying that while wearing your fur lined coat? I hope so.[/QUOTE]Someone's cruisin' for a mysterious and sophisticated beatdown. Thanks for the laugh.

CN,

You fail English reading comprehension and psychology.

Nowhere did I talk about my great pick up skills. Well at least recently. My last first person report was two or so years ago, if you are referring to me talking about my pick up skills. Or to steal a page from Prosal's play book, it's been several years since someone else posted about my pick up skills. Of course, pick up skills aren't to be confused with taking a girl home from Rio.

Who said the girls I date have low self esteem? I assume you advocate lying to girls, to protect their self esteem I am sure.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow; 1289328]First, my apologies to you for my confrontational attitude and lack of understanding when you tried to call out that complete waste of money strip club.

Second, I am not one to support Prosal but some of your talk makes no sense to me. On one side you talk about great pickup skills and then on the other side you talk about women with such low esteem that you directly tell them you are dating others. Any quality in these girls of yours? I just don't get it.

No disrespect, I appreciate your posts.[/QUOTE]

Stopped by shooters last night (Wednesday) and I don't know if it has been like this lately but the ratio was in my estimate 3:1 Men vs Women with a at least half of the women were close to or in their 30s and no doubt working girls. Must have to do with the Euro 2012, the club was full of foreigners. Vodka Room was only slightly better. Speaking of venues, Afisha is a good source of information on what's happening on any given night. I'm taking off to Minsk for a week to escape the madness.

[QUOTE=Golfinho;1290275]Someone's cruisin' for a mysterious and sophisticated beatdown. Thanks for the laugh.[/QUOTE]Hello Golfinho,

And you know what? It was only the other day when I thought Whatever happened to Golfinho? Long time no show.

When are you going back to Uzbekistan?

[QUOTE=Sean EZ;1290414]Stopped by shooters last night (Wednesday) and I don't know if it has been like this lately but the ratio was in my estimate 3:1 Men vs Women with a at least half of the women were close to or in their 30s and no doubt working girls. Must have to do with the Euro 2012, the club was full of foreigners. Vodka Room was only slightly better. Speaking of venues, Afisha is a good source of information on what's happening on any given night. I'm taking off to Minsk for a week to escape the madness.[/QUOTE]At midnight it was 90% girls last night until 00:30, then whoosh. Lots of male football fans arrived. I never saw the ratio that bad. Working girls not allowed ply their trade in shooters, but of course, some of the usual suspects have started to visit due to the football.

[QUOTE=Jojosun; 1290455]Hello Golfinho,

And you know what? It was only the other day when I thought Whatever happened to Golfinho? Long time no show.

When are you going back to Uzbekistan?[/QUOTE]Maybe I confused you with another Golfinho whom I had on my mind.

My apologies for the mix up.

[QUOTE=Jojosun; 1290455]Hello Golfinho,

And you know what? It was only the other day when I thought Whatever happened to Golfinho? Long time no show.

When are you going back to Uzbekistan?[/QUOTE]Have found Uzbeki girls enjoy beaches. Until supply runs out, no need for further forays to t'kent. So much better importing them there in winter and no waiting around for me getting visa.

[QUOTE=Golfinho;1290647]Have found Uzbeki girls enjoy beaches. Until supply runs out, no need for further forays to t'kent. So much better importing them t here in winter and no waiting around for me getting visa.[/QUOTE]On a side note, I found few Ukrainenian women in Bangkok, but they were of a certain age. They hang around in the corner coffee shop on soi 7 on SUk.

I guess more to be found around the Russian Enclave in Pattaya.

Uzbek girls in Bangkok are mainly in the Disco hotel of Grace Hotel, plying their trade for the Gulf Arabs and other Middle Eastern Guys there.

Much better quality of Russian and Uzbek Girls were at (CM2) the Disco at the Novotel Hotel, Bangkok.

One stunning Uzbek Girl with a great personanilty, wanted about US$160 all night.

Didn't pursue the tempting deal, as I had my home JoJO team with me on a Stopover kind of holiday there.

Yeah works out great there in the winter.

Jojosun,

If you have the chance to visit Pattaya, just pm me. I found a place with Russian and Ukranian WG's for 250-400$ but really stunners.

[QUOTE=Jojosun; 1290787]On a side note, I found few Ukrainenian women in Bangkok, but they were of a certain age. They hang around in the corner coffee shop on soi 7 on SUk.

I guess more to be found around the Russian Enclave in Pattaya.

Uzbek girls in Bangkok are mainly in the Disco hotel of Grace Hotel, plying their trade for the Gulf Arabs and other Middle Eastern Guys there.

Much better quality of Russian and Uzbek Girls were at (CM2) the Disco at the Novotel Hotel, Bangkok.

One stunning Uzbek Girl with a great personanilty, wanted about US$160 all night.

Didn't pursue the tempting deal, as I had my home JoJO team with me on a Stopover kind of holiday there.

Yeah works out great there in the winter.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Hakan Demir; 1291160]Jojosun,

If you have the chance to visit Pattaya, just pm me. I found a place with Russian and Ukranian WG's for 250-400$ but really stunners.[/QUOTE]Thank you Hakan.

Hello fellow mongers! I'm new here.

I've stumbled across this forum after my visits in April to the famous club everyone seems to rave about. I keep reading how some of you have been successful in bringing girls back to the apartment the entire night for just $400. Is there a magic recipe to this or the girls just pulling my leg? I must be doing something wrong, because I haven't been able to bring any of the hotties home for less than $100 / hr which sometimes equates to $800.

If anyone is in Kiev right now, do you know if Michelle is still up for take-outs? That girl was a gem. I wouldn't mind going back to Kiev just for her.

[QUOTE=Seekerz; 1291879]Hello fellow mongers! I'm new here.

I've stumbled across this forum after my visits in April to the famous club everyone seems to rave about. I keep reading how some of you have been successful in bringing girls back to the apartment the entire night for just $400. Is there a magic recipe to this or the girls just pulling my leg? I must be doing something wrong, because I haven't been able to bring any of the hotties home for less than $100 / hr which sometimes equates to $800.

If anyone is in Kiev right now, do you know if Michelle is still up for take-outs? That girl was a gem. I wouldn't mind going back to Kiev just for her.[/QUOTE]I have had girls ask for more than $400 when I was asking them to stay with me longer than until 5:00 am closing time, such as for a full day of 24 hour period. Naturally, since other girls had asked for $400 for the whole night (defined as until 5:00 am club closing time) , I expected them to ask for more than $400 for a greater amount of time. It was never a straight equation of adding another $100 per additional hour, though, in my experience. The most I was ever asked for was $800 for a complete 24 hour period. The only price gouging girl I encountered there was Darina who demands $500 for three hours, in distinction from the standard price of all other girls of $300 for three hours. (and before some lunk head rushes to correct me, yes, of course, we are all aware of the other incidental costs, such as entrance fee, cost of drinks or private dances purchased or tips, and the discussion here is specifically on the amount of the take out fee, and whether it has been changing).

It is not clear to me what precisely you are reporting. Are you talking about WITHIN the period between club opening time at 8:00 pm and club closing time at 5:00 am, and reporting that even within this period girls are demanding more than $400 to stay with you at your apartment until 5:00 am? If so, this would be a departure and a change from what has been going on previously at the club for last year and this year up till your report. In light of the fact that a number of members reported successfully having girls stay much longer than three hours and even staying longer than the 5:00 am club closing time for just the original $300 payment, such a new trend of asking prices higher than $400 for the whole night until closing time should be resisted and such a demand in excess of $400 should be flatly turned down. I would say the girls or the club are testing the waters to see if they can get guys to pay out even higher prices. It's up to the customers to say yes or no to such a new trend.

However, if you are not talking about the price for a girl staying with you until 5:00 am club closing time, and you are instead talking about situations where you attempted to get the girl to agree to stay with you additional hours after The 5:00 am club closing time, then this is a different matter, and has no guidelines that I am aware of, so theoretically each girl may negotiate as she pleases. In this event, I would simply want you to be aware that a number of members have written reports stating they had girls stay longer than 5:00 am for just the initial $300 paid, and that the most I have ever heard demanded was a double fee of $800 for a full night and a full day of a full 24 hour period, and also that other clubs like the new Dolls have later closing times than Rio so that if one were ready to pay the $500 whole night take out price at Dolls more hours would be included. Same as to other strip clubs (see the prior reports by TheKnight and others as to prices at other strip clubs).

At prices of $300/3hrs and $400 / all night, Rio was priced lower than the other strip clubs. If the girls at Rio are asking prices higher than $400 / all night (up to 5:00 am closing) then this premise is no longer true. Your report has no specificity to it, so it isn't clear if you are reporting such a change has occurred. However if you were not referring to prices up until 5:00 am closing time, but rather to prices being asked by some girls for staying with you longer than 3 hours ending at 5:00 am, then whether you ate making a bargain or being clipped depends on how many hours extra you are asking for. For example, if you took a girl out of the Rio club at 2:00 am, and you are asking her to stay more than three hours which ends at 5:00 am, and you want her to stay until 7:00 am, and she asks for another $100 for each additional hour past 5:00 am, which is another $200, for a total of $500, then although you have paid more than other guys who succeeded in getting extra hours from Rio girls without paying more than the initial $300, nevertheless, you would still be paying the same price as an all night take out at Dolls club, so you are getting ripped off no worse than if you had gone to Dolls by choice and taken an all night take out. I'm not sure when Dolls closes and when their "all night" take out dates are supposed to end. It could be at 6:00 am or maybe later. I remember it was later than Rio, but forget exactly how much later.

But if you took a girl out of Rio at 1:00 am and you were asking the girl to stay till noon the next day, which is 7 hours later than the 5:00 am closing time, and she asked you for an additional $100 for each of those 7 additional hours after 5:00 am, plus $400 for the time from 1:00 am until club closing at 5:00 am, then such a hefty sum of $1100 would be unprecedented gouging, and you paid far more than other customers going to strip clubs.

And to boot, it is currently being reported that girls just as hot as the dancers in the strip clubs, who sre Working Girls and open to p4p negotiations, are possible to get in the regular nightclubs for prices as low as $200/2 hours, and generally when negotiating for more hours in an all night or all day or till noon scenario, a package deal is the norm, and no WG is sticking on $100 / hr even if she is negotiating a 6 or 8 hour booking or longer.

As you can see from the initial price structure of $300/3hrs and $400 / all night till 5:00am, after the first three hours are paid, all remaining hours should be negotiated on a "package deal" basis only. At that point, the girl has already got $300 which is more than most Ukrainians make in a month in salary, and anything more she gets is just gravy. You're not going to be engaging in continuous sex acts with her for all those extra hours anyway. They are easy hours for her to get paid for just for being with you as a companion. There is no logic behind refusing a package deal price for the extra hours, and insisting on an hourly rate of $100 each additional hour, no matter how many additional hours, like some sort of taxi meter, other than sheer greed hoping to capitalize on your lust and vulnerability. Just say no.

Anyways, it would be helpful if you could be specific about the exact time of night and which hours you were negotiating about, as well as the exact price you were asked to pay.

LJ

[QUOTE=Jojosun; 1290787]On a side note, I found few Ukrainenian women in Bangkok, but they were of a certain age. They hang around in the corner coffee shop on soi 7 on SUk.

I guess more to be found around the Russian Enclave in Pattaya.

Uzbek girls in Bangkok are mainly in the Disco hotel of Grace Hotel, plying their trade for the Gulf Arabs and other Middle Eastern Guys there.

Much better quality of Russian and Uzbek Girls were at (CM2) the Disco at the Novotel Hotel, Bangkok.

One stunning Uzbek Girl with a great personanilty, wanted about US$160 all night.

Didn't pursue the tempting deal, as I had my home JoJO team with me on a Stopover kind of holiday there.

Yeah works out great there in the winter.[/QUOTE]Soi Suk) Boom! Not that hot though. & Tricks all the way. Simply because of the mass hordes of non-Russian like mentality men. Sorry West)

Uzbek girl. Hmm Maybe on Soi 4 or 3 I think more like. Hangs in an internet cafe working online tricks. Next to her what. 2 star hotel, with her Thai Turkish wannabe gangsta fellas. CM2. Fuck! I was to early to play there.

Okay straight up. Loved the Sweden vibe going on in the center! Respects to all you soccer boys!) But please stop hitting on my lady on arms.

[QUOTE=LilJoey; 1292008]I have had girls ask for more than $400 when I was asking them to stay with me longer than until 5:00 am closing time, such as for a full day of 24 hour period. Naturally, since other girls had asked for $400 for the whole night (defined as until 5:00 am club closing time) , I expected them to ask for more than $400 for a greater amount of time. It was never a straight equation of adding another $100 per additional hour, though, in my experience. The most I was ever asked for was $800 for a complete 24 hour period. The only price gouging girl I encountered there was Darina who demands $500 for three hours, in distinction from the standard price of all other girls of $300 for three hours. (and before some lunk head rushes to correct me, yes, of course, we are all aware of the other incidental costs, such as entrance fee, cost of drinks or private dances purchased or tips, and the discussion here is specifically on the amount of the take out fee, and whether it has been changing).

It is not clear to me what precisely you are reporting. Are you talking about WITHIN the period between club opening time at 8:00 pm and club closing time at 5:00 am, and reporting that even within this period girls are demanding more than $400 to stay with you at your apartment until 5:00 am? If so, this would be a departure and a change from what has been going on previously at the club for last year and this year up till your report. In light of the fact that a number of members reported successfully having girls stay much longer than three hours and even staying longer than the 5:00 am club closing time for just the original $300 payment, such a new trend of asking prices higher than $400 for the whole night until closing time should be resisted and such a demand in excess of $400 should be flatly turned down. I would say the girls or the club are testing the waters to see if they can get guys to pay out even higher prices. It's up to the customers to say yes or no to such a new trend.

However, if you are not talking about the price for a girl staying with you until 5:00 am club closing time, and you are instead talking about situations where you attempted to get the girl to agree to stay with you additional hours after The 5:00 am club closing time, then this is a different matter, and has no guidelines that I am aware of, so theoretically each girl may negotiate as she pleases. In this event, I would simply want you to be aware that a number of members have written reports stating they had girls stay longer than 5:00 am for just the initial $300 paid, and that the most I have ever heard demanded was a double fee of $800 for a full night and a full day of a full 24 hour period, and also that other clubs like the new Dolls have later closing times than Rio so that if one were ready to pay the $500 whole night take out price at Dolls more hours would be included. Same as to other strip clubs (see the prior reports by TheKnight and others as to prices at other strip clubs).

At prices of $300/3hrs and $400 / all night, Rio was priced lower than the other strip clubs. If the girls at Rio are asking prices higher than $400 / all night (up to 5:00 am closing) then this premise is no longer true. Your report has no specificity to it, so it isn't clear if you are reporting such a change has occurred. However if you were not referring to prices up until 5:00 am closing time, but rather to prices being asked by some girls for staying with you longer than 3 hours ending at 5:00 am, then whether you ate making a bargain or being clipped depends on how many hours extra you are asking for. For example, if you took a girl out of the Rio club at 2:00 am, and you are asking her to stay more than three hours which ends at 5:00 am, and you want her to stay until 7:00 am, and she asks for another $100 for each additional hour past 5:00 am, which is another $200, for a total of $500, then although you have paid more than other guys who succeeded in getting extra hours from Rio girls without paying more than the initial $300, nevertheless, you would still be paying the same price as an all night take out at Dolls club, so you are getting ripped off no worse than if you had gone to Dolls by choice and taken an all night take out. I'm not sure when Dolls closes and when their "all night" take out dates are supposed to end. It could be at 6:00 am or maybe later. I remember it was later than Rio, but forget exactly how much later.

But if you took a girl out of Rio at 1:00 am and you were asking the girl to stay till noon the next day, which is 7 hours later than the 5:00 am closing time, and she asked you for an additional $100 for each of those 7 additional hours after 5:00 am, plus $400 for the time from 1:00 am until club closing at 5:00 am, then such a hefty sum of $1100 would be unprecedented gouging, and you paid far more than other customers going to strip clubs.

And to boot, it is currently being reported that girls just as hot as the dancers in the strip clubs, who sre Working Girls and open to p4p negotiations, are possible to get in the regular nightclubs for prices as low as $200/2 hours, and generally when negotiating for more hours in an all night or all day or till noon scenario, a package deal is the norm, and no WG is sticking on $100 / hr even if she is negotiating a 6 or 8 hour booking or longer.

As you can see from the initial price structure of $300/3hrs and $400 / all night till 5:00am, after the first three hours are paid, all remaining hours should be negotiated on a "package deal" basis only. At that point, the girl has already got $300 which is more than most Ukrainians make in a month in salary, and anything more she gets is just gravy. You're not going to be engaging in continuous sex acts with her for all those extra hours anyway. They are easy hours for her to get paid for just for being with you as a companion. There is no logic behind refusing a package deal price for the extra hours, and insisting on an hourly rate of $100 each additional hour, no matter how many additional hours, like some sort of taxi meter, other than sheer greed hoping to capitalize on your lust and vulnerability. Just say no.

Anyways, it would be helpful if you could be specific about the exact time of night and which hours you were negotiating about, as well as the exact price you were asked to pay.

LJ[/QUOTE]Thanks for the comprehensive insight LJ.

I was referring to that fact that girls in Rio were demanding $100 / hr until closing time, with the minimum package being $300/3hrs of course. That means when I pick-up a girl at 9pm and spend the night with her, I have paid up to $800. I have never been charged for anything past closing time. As I understand, Rio just wants the $300 and the girl is excused from her obligations for the whole night. I presume anything above that, the girl gets to keep for herself. Looks like I've been duped and phenomenally boosted the lifestyle of some of the girls.

Cheers,

Seekerz

Just an FYI for everyone who may think paying $800 for sex in Kiev is normal, it isn't.

[QUOTE=LilJoey;1292008]Naturally, since other girls had asked for $400 for the whole night (defined as until 5:00 am club closing time) , I expected them to ask for more than $400 for a greater amount of time. It was never a straight equation of adding another $100 per additional hour, though, in my experience. The most I was ever asked for was $800 for a complete 24 hour period. The only price gouging girl I encountered there was Darina who demands $500 for three hours,[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Seekerz; 1292312]Thanks for the comprehensive insight LJ.

I was referring to that fact that girls in Rio were demanding $100 / hr until closing time, with the minimum package being $300/3hrs of course. That means when I pick-up a girl at 9pm and spend the night with her, I have paid up to $800. I have never been charged for anything past closing time. As I understand, Rio just wants the $300 and the girl is excused from her obligations for the whole night. I presume anything above that, the girl gets to keep for herself. Looks like I've been duped and phenomenally boosted the lifestyle of some of the girls.

Cheers,

Seekerz[/QUOTE]Ouch! It is unfortunately a very good example of how carefully reading this forum going back at least a year before traveling on a mongering tour to a new destination can literally save you many 100's of dollars. Had you read my prior reports about Rio referenced in the Reports of Distinction thread and not buried somewhere in the thread in a report made long ago, you would surely have had a clearer picture of the type of fees being paid by others, and at least if something wasn't clear you could have asked a question. I never heard of anyone paying more than $400 at Rio until closing time. Likewise the $500 all nite take out fee at Dolls strip club. That's what an all night fee means. You were seriously overcharged. Please name the girls who charged you more than $400 until Rio's 5:00 am closing time if you can remember. It's important that those girls who have such impudence, asking far beyond the standard of even the strip clubs, be outed, and the information can serve as a warning to other members to be prepared and forewarned.

LJ

[QUOTE=LilJoey; 1292464]Ouch! It is unfortunately a very good example of how carefully reading this forum going back at least a year before traveling on a mongering tour to a new destination can literally save you many 100's of dollars. Had you read my prior reports about Rio referenced in the Reports of Distinction thread and not buried somewhere in the thread in a report made long ago, you would surely have had a clearer picture of the type of fees being paid by others, and at least if something wasn't clear you could have asked a question. I never heard of anyone paying more than $400 at Rio until closing time. Likewise the $500 all nite take out fee at Dolls strip club. That's what an all night fee means. You were seriously overcharged. Please name the girls who charged you more than $400 until Rio's 5:00 am closing time if you can remember. It's important that those girls who have such impudence, asking far beyond the standard of even the strip clubs, be outed, and the information can serve as a warning to other members to be prepared and forewarned.

LJ[/QUOTE]One, I have already named. The others, I would not like to disclose.

I think your statement is clear enough to anyone visiting Rio, not to pay more than $400 / night. I will certainly not do it again.

Thanks LJ!

I'm newbie and I will go to Kiev on 18 July, after Euro, I read almost 20 pages here but only find the strip club, which expensive and I don't like lap dance much. Can I find some place in Kiev only prostitude who I can choose, only fuck and pay, no dance & good service? I will really respect if someone help me, thanks.

[QUOTE=Newbiez;1292646]I'm newbie and I will go to Kiev on 18 July, after Euro, I read almost 20 pages here but only find the strip club, which expensive and I don't like lap dance much. Can I find some place in Kiev only prostitude who I can choose, only fuck and pay, no dance & good service? I will really respect if someone help me, thanks.[/QUOTE]What you are looking for is really an incall place (Salon) apartments, where more than one girl would be working there.

(Me and You) posted on some apartments in the centre. .

I have never been to such places.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D;1292404]Just an FYI for everyone who may think paying $800 for sex in Kiev is normal, it isn't.[/QUOTE]Cruiser D is of course correct, in general, since many options which cost a lot less exist in Kiev.

In the instance under discussion between Seekerz and myself, I merely mentioned that such a price ($800) was asked by a girl in Rio for a 24 hour period, as an illustration in contrast to what Seekerz was recently asked to pay, which was $100 / hr for as many hours as he wanted the Rio girl, and it cost him $800 even for the first 8 hours he took the girl out for up until 5:00 am club closing time. Previously, the "all night" take out fee (at least until 5:00 am closing time) had always been only $400.

Within the expensive world of strip club p4p, the "all night" take out fee (generally just a $100 or so more than the basic take out fee) represented a way of lowering the per hour cost dramatically, and if one enjoyed having the company of a very beautiful girl, $400 for 8 or 9 hours was a reasonably low hourly rate ($400/8-9 hours is less than $50 / hour). Therefore, if a guy was intending to take out a girl from Rio each night for an all night booking, that would cost $400 each of the 2 nights, for a maximum of about 8 hours each night. When looking at that, getting 24 hours for $800, instead of 16 hours for $800 when booking all night take out for 2 nights in a row, is a much better deal, as an extra 8 hours is included for no additional cost. But then again, this "savings" only applied to the sort of guy doing all night take out at a strip club on consecutive nights in a row.

Mongering in a strip club is very expensive though, and many members have expressed the feeling that the level of companionship one receives is not worth the high prices being demanded in the strip clubs. These mongers prefer to pay $75 or $100 or less, in total, for an hour of sex with a girl they got off mamba. Ru, even if the girl is only above.average looking, and not as pretty or sexy as some of the dancers from the strip club, and most importantly, even though it usually takes a lot of trying and a lot of wasted time using mamba. Ru to get a girl that looks decent, because many ugly, fat or older girls show up to one's door, instead of the beautiful girl in the fake picture on the mamba. Ru ad. These mongers feel that $75 or $100 is enough to pay for sex in Kiev, and the additional beauty level of some really very hot stunners in Kiev is not worth it to pay for it so much money as is being demanded. And these mongers certainly don't want to pay for extra companionship time that doesn't directly involve sex. So once they've blown their load and the sex is over, there's no point in keeping the girl around if it costs an hourly rate. Sure, maybe if the girl wants to stay for free or for a pittance more, but not for serious money. So these mongers would definitely not be interested in "all night" take out options even if the hourly rate for the additional hours is low."Who needs it?" they would say.

Every once in a while one of the members writes on the thread that he was lucky enough to get a girl through mamba. Ru who turned out to be a very hot stunner, just as pretty as the best girls one can see in Kiev strip clubs or nightclubs. Unfortunately, there are no pictures posted on the forum that substantiate this. The best of the posted pictures look like pretty average looking girls. And the best I have personally gotten from mamba. Ru was also girls who are Only above average, but nowhere near the level of hotness of some of the p4p dancers available at the strip club, or WG's I have seen at regular nightclubs. So to my mind there is a very discernable difference between the level of beauty that is possible to obtain from using mamba. Ru, versus the level of beauty of the p4p girls available at strip and night clubs.

The question of whether the price differential is worth it to attain the higher level beauties, is a personal choice each monger must make for himself. Obviously, there is no right or wrong here.

Some have the attitude that once they blow their load and the sex is completed, it's all the same anyway, so why pay more for a little more beauty? Who needs it? It's better to keep the dollars in one's own pocket. They value having inexpensive sex, and would not pay a large premium for a hotter girl, and certainly not "all night" fees for additional companionship hours, even though obviously if the girl stays a long time, it usually means another round of sex at the end before she goes.

On the other hand, other mongers are not so interested in mere sex and getting off with average or above average girls, except as an occasional thing in between more interesting sexual opportunities with very beautiful girls as is possible in Kiev, like in most cities of the world, albeit for a higher price, except that in Kiev, thankfully, it is possible for prices lower than elsewhere in the world.

In recent reports this year, Cruiser D, you have informed us that one can get very hot Working Girls in the regular nightclubs for prices of $200/2 hrs and less, which is significantly lower cost than at any strip club. You are referring both to professional Working Girls and semi-pros, when stating these are the prices. So it would seem obvious that it pays to try to get hotties for $200/2hours at regular nightclubs now, and not pay the higher strip club prices.

But there is a caveat to this.

You haven't really clarified or discussed the efficiency or ease of getting such a WG or semi pro girl for those prices in the regular nightclub. The efficiency of attaining the goal is a most important factor. It's not sufficient that it is merely possible. Anything is "possible". To be useful as advice, it is required that it is a "probable" outcome of going to monger for p4p in a regular nightclub. And in order for it to be relevant to the membership here, it must be probable across the board to at least most mongers here, and not just to the elite few who are young and / or look like Brad Pitt.

I think it is what you were trying to say because you once wrote something to the effect that if one can't get a hottie out of a regular nightclub for $200/2 hrs or less, one is doing something seriously wrong. So it seemed you were saying that it should be achievable by most mongers.

But we all realize that the mongers who are members here are not a homogenous group. Some are in their 20's and 30's, while more are in their 40's and 50's. Some are good looking or at least presentable, while some are a little heavy, or not good looking, or balding etc.

These differences in age and appearance and looks very much affect the outcome of chasing freebies, which as you write, is what you personally like and aim to do when you go to a nightclub. You and Prosal have debated the niceties of how to dress to impress the upper echelon of Kiev hotties when trying to get to them as freebies. But leave this aside, because I am not talking about chasing freebies.

These differences in age and appearance do not so much affect the outcome of a P4P transaction. If a girl is looking for cash, for a man's p4p dollars, then money is the great equalizer. That is why p4p with a high level hottie, who is a WG, is possible to attain, even for those mongers who are in the older brackets here and are not so good looking as to be able to score the same girl as a freebie.

So the Actual question that needed to be answered in comparing mongering between strip clubs and regular nightclubs is, are members who are not young or very good looking, probable to obtain p4p dates at regular nightclubs for prices like you stated of $200/2hrs or less? What a good looking younger guy with lots of game and knowledge of Russian and image of wealth can do while chasing freebies is completely not relevant to this question. You write that you like to get the high priced WG's for free because you work it as a freebie and they see you as marriage material. It's great. But it does little to help the mongers who can't do what you do. So in giving advice to mongers across the board, which includes older guys, as well as guys with extra pounds, and extra wrinkles, and not enough hair too, it is only helpful to speak of p4p opportunities that are probable for them too, and don't depend so much on their age and looks, but rather on the money they are willing to spend in a p4p date.

That's also why I once asked you what type of semi-pro girl you were talking about and recommending to seek for p4p, when speaking of how to find them in the nightclubs. The term semi-pro is broad enough to encompass any girl who only occasionally will take money for sex. This includes those girls who need cash at that moment and decided to go to the nightclub to pick up a guy to fuck for money and therefore whose behavior will be searching out guys much like any professional WG and so they will be easier to spot. But it also includes girls who are just out for fun with their friends and not looking for a p4p date, and who are behaving like any regular girl in the club and not exhibiting typical WG behavior, but if by chance a guy is hitting on them a lot and they sense he wants sex with them very much and right away, they may take the opportunity to "like him a lot more for $100" or so. These latter type of semi-pro girls are not behaving like WG's and not easy to spot and find, without a method or stratagem to identify them quickly.

Unfortunately, there are no action reports telling about actual prices demanded by the hottest WG's or semi.pros that the writer personally spoke to and is reporting about, actual p4p negotiations conducted and the resulting prices, which would comprise factual data of the sort valid opinions could be based upon, which is the type of opinion that I personally feel is more reliable, because then the reader can also assess the facts upon which the opinion is based. All we have is assertions made by those claiming to know conditions of p4p in the regular nightclubs, and all those opinions rest on is the credibility of the person making the statement, with no way to make an independent assessment.

Anyway, at least there is enough basis to make a Mongering recommendation to use mamba. Ru and other websites, as well as girl apartments for daytime activity, and at night to first try at the regular nightclubs for very beautiful p4p and see how it goes in terms of price and efficiency. If it turns out relatively easy and efficient to get a date with very hot p4p WG's or semi-pros at fairly low prices of under $200, then continue with this course. But if it turns out to be not so easy to succeed, then the lower priced mamba. Ru and girl apartment options, with their functional drawbacks, are well known, and the higher priced strip club options are also well known and can be regarded as a back up.

LJ

[QUOTE=Newbiez;1292646]I'm newbie and I will go to Kiev on 18 July, after Euro, I read almost 20 pages here but only find the strip club, which expensive and I don't like lap dance much. Can I find some place in Kiev only prostitude who I can choose, only fuck and pay, no dance & good service? I will really respect if someone help me, thanks.[/QUOTE]There are many, many reports on this thread within the last year, that give the information you requested for places with only prostitutes where you can choose and no dancing and low cost.

There are websites like mamba. Ru and top-modals. Com and many others basically using fake pictures and advertising girls for $75 to $100 / hr or less) , or you can go to girl apartments which are basically like a brothel, which taxi drivers can take you to, or you can meet shills for the apartments walking around downtown.

The nightclubs also have prostitutes, but a bit more expensive.

Newbiez, I read in an article that you can find streetwalkers outside metro station Politechnitjnyj institut. You should also try Mamba for freelancers or the massage saloons mentioned here in the past. Guys on the street will hand you flyers advertising "massage" and a Kiev senior told me that those places should absolutely be tested if you have the time. One article reports over 9000 prostitutes in Kiev, plus all the students that are just paid "girlfriends", so I am sure there is more options for p*ssy than the now probably very well visited nightclub.

When I see the numbers discussed here I am just amazed. Who the f*ck pays 800 USD for a night with a wh*re? Or even 400? If it is a girl you really like and have a relationship with things are different, but when there are pretty teenage girls for 80 USD waiting to see you, why pay ten times more just to sleep next to her? I met at least one that I consider an 8, and friends here sends me pictures of really pretty girls that they fucked for 50-60 USD per hour, so this board is in serious need of a reality check. I am not a fan of Cruiser D's arrogant tone at times, but folks here should listen to the message he broadcast!

Barba

[QUOTE=LilJoey;1292755]These mongers prefer to pay $75 or $100 or less, in total, for an hour of sex with a girl they got off mamba. Ru, even if the girl is only above.average looking, and not as pretty or sexy as some of the dancers from the strip club, and most importantly, even though it usually takes a lot of trying and a lot of wasted time using mamba. Ru to get a girl that looks decent, because many ugly, fat or older girls show up to one's door, instead of the beautiful girl in the fake picture on the mamba. Ru ad. These mongers feel that $75 or $100 is enough to pay for sex in Kiev, and the additional beauty level of some really very hot stunners in Kiev is not worth it to pay for it so much money as is being demanded.[/QUOTE]LJ, I did not read all the text in your post but I suggest you stick to things you know anything about (and since that is mostly the unmentionable club, maybe just give it a rest). Just because you did not manage to find pretty girls on dating sites, does not mean it is hard or time consuming for someone who knows how to work them. Anyone that reads this post and who spent a few months massaging social / dating sites in various parts of the world, will know exactly what I mean. If you have just a little bit of skills in reading people and response patterns, and you will weed out the fake profiles / users from the real ones. The real ones will most often communicate with you and sometimes present additional pictures if you are kind and just a fraction of an entertaining guy. A working girl is still a girl at the end of the day, and they are often tuned into cooperative social patterns (as opposed to a hired hand maintaining several fake profiles in Ukraine or anywhere else in the world).

Non of the girls I met where ugly or fat. They looked like the pictures and in a couple of cases I would say they even look better. Grading is subjective but I did visit some clubs in Kiev and according to my standards, I would prefer the ones I had from Mamba over most I saw dragging their feet around in these clubs, trying to look like dignified bitches. In one of the strip clubs one really pretty girl gave me a lap dance, only to tell me she would not come with me. If I would have been in for some serious hunting that evening, it would have been a total waste of time and money to talk to her. One girl that came to my apartment was a referral (the anal girl) and she was admittedly not so hot, but she is not on Mamba either so no need for you to worry about her. As I reported earlier one girl I really liked stayed for 3, 5 hours and still did not ask for more money than what we agreed on. A young student with black hair, big tits and slim waist. It took me all in all about 5 minutes to find her, scrutinize her and to and get her number. She replied to my call immediately when I rang her.

Yesterday I had a chat with a super pretty girl of age 21. She quoted 80 USD for an hour and when I responded that I would like to have a dinner first, she agreed without and fuzz about additional payment. We have had nice chats and exchanged some pictures. I like that build up, including the dinner. Anticipation. Once I shot my load, I normally want a new girl, or to see one of my "girlfriends" wherever I am on the globe, but the scenario is analog with sleep over guests, and I argue that you should NOT consider paying per hour as the standard you must implement. Let that be the exception in this ten thousand year old game between man and woman.

LJ, I do not know why you need to make non Rio related mongering sound so hard and like a lottery, but I am getting back into old paranoid thoughts discussed here previously. Give Mamba a real chance and then you can educate people about how it compares with your favorite strip club.

Barba

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[QUOTE=Barba; 1292763]Newbiez, I read in an article that you can find streetwalkers outside metro station Politechnitjnyj institut. You should also try Mamba for freelancers or the massage saloons mentioned here in the past. Guys on the street will hand you flyers advertising "massage" and a Kiev senior told me that those places should absolutely be tested if you have the time. One article reports over 9000 prostitutes in Kiev, plus all the students that are just paid "girlfriends", so I am sure there is more options for p*ssy than the now probably very well visited nightclub.

When I see the numbers discussed here I am just amazed. Who the f*ck pays 800 USD for a night with a wh*re? Or even 400? If it is a girl you really like and have a relationship with things are different, but when there are pretty teenage girls for 80 USD waiting to see you, why pay ten times more just to sleep next to her? I met at least one that I consider an 8, and friends here sends me pictures of really pretty girls that they fucked for 50-60 USD per hour, so this board is in serious need of a reality check. I am not a fan of Cruiser D's arrogant tone at times, but folks here should listen to the message he broadcast!

Barba[/QUOTE]How to find these 50-60 USD pretty teenage girls in Kiev?

[QUOTE=Barba; 1292795]LJ, I did not read all the text in your post but I suggest you stick to things you know anything about (and since that is mostly the unmentionable club, maybe just give it a rest). Just because you did not manage to find pretty girls on dating sites, does not mean it is hard or time consuming for someone who knows how to work them. Anyone that reads this post and who spent a few months massaging social / dating sites in various parts of the world, will know exactly what I mean. If you have just a little bit of skills in reading people and response patterns, and you will weed out the fake profiles / users from the real ones. The real ones will most often communicate with you and sometimes present additional pictures if you are kind and just a fraction of an entertaining guy. A working girl is still a girl at the end of the day, and they are often tuned into cooperative social patterns (as opposed to a hired hand maintaining several fake profiles in Ukraine or anywhere else in the world).

Non of the girls I met where ugly or fat. They looked like the pictures and in a couple of cases I would say they even look better. Grading is subjective but I did visit some clubs in Kiev and according to my standards, I would prefer the ones I had from Mamba over most I saw dragging their feet around in these clubs, trying to look like dignified bitches. In one of the strip clubs one really pretty girl gave me a lap dance, only to tell me she would not come with me. If I would have been in for some serious hunting that evening, it would have been a total waste of time and money to talk to her. One girl that came to my apartment was a referral (the anal girl) and she was admittedly not so hot, but she is not on Mamba either so no need for you to worry about her. As I reported earlier one girl I really liked stayed for 3, 5 hours and still did not ask for more money than what we agreed on. A young student with black hair, big tits and slim waist. It took me all in all about 5 minutes to find her, scrutinize her and to and get her number. She replied to my call immediately when I rang her.

Yesterday I had a chat with a super pretty girl of age 21. She quoted 80 USD for an hour and when I responded that I would like to have a dinner first, she agreed without and fuzz about additional payment. We have had nice chats and exchanged some pictures. I like that build up, including the dinner. Anticipation. Once I shot my load, I normally want a new girl, or to see one of my "girlfriends" wherever I am on the globe, but the scenario is analog with sleep over guests, and I argue that you should NOT consider paying per hour as the standard you must implement. Let that be the exception in this ten thousand year old game between man and woman.

LJ, I do not know why you need to make non Rio related mongering sound so hard and like a lottery, but I am getting back into old paranoid thoughts discussed here previously. Give Mamba a real chance and then you can educate people about how it compares with your favorite strip club.

Barba[/QUOTE]Barba, your sentiments fit exactly the type of monger I described who was much happier with the cheaply priced girls available on mamba. Ru.

The error in your analysis is that I am not "trying to make it sound hard" to find very hot 8's. 9's and 10's using mamba. Ru. I am merely reporting my own personal experiences, as well as the cumulative reported experiences of many, many others on this thread. No doubt you haven't read the prior reports. A fair reading of the numerous reports by others on this thread over the past year will substantiate my view, however. If you have some sort of compulsion to deny these reported facts and attribute my mentioning it to some ulterior purpose, then I can't help you with such delusional thoughts, and no real discourse is possible. Alas, the Mamba pictures are mostly fake, and the reported experience of many members is that most often unbecoming girls will show up at one's doorstep invited from the p4p offerings on the mamba website. This has been reported so many times on this thread in the past by many different writers, that I think anyone reasonable would regard it as axiomatic. The considered opinion was and is that One has to be lucky to get a nice looking above average girl off of mamba, BUT that with persistence and time it is possible to eventually get a nice looking girl using the mamba. Ru website.

The claims by some to have gotten to very hot 8's and 9's type of girls, I take with a grain of salt, and attribute to wishful thinking. It's improbable, although not impossible.

For getting the really hot WG's I much prefer a situation where I can see what the girl actually looks like before I select her, which is possible in nightclubs, as well as strip clubs. I find venues where I can see the girls in advance to be more certain, than the pot luck one deals with using mamba. Ru.

You claim to have a personal skill of being able to divine which p4p profiles on mamba are fake pictures and which are true pictures. If this is true, it would surely help a monger cut down on time wasted getting girls coming to the door who had nice pics, but ended up looking nowhere near as good as the pics in the flesh. Most other mongers who have been trying to use mamba do not have this special skill you claim to have, and have reported a different experience using mamba than you claim, which undermines the credibility of your report.

So if you want to post something of value to the thread, rather than just be argumentative, you should consider posting a detailed methodology explaining your methods of using mamba and never getting a piglet at your doorstep. I leave open the possibity that you may have something to contribute on this topic of using mamba. Ru more effectively. It would be a valuable contribution.

LJ

[quote=barba; 1292795]give mamba a real chance and then you can educate people about how it compares with your favorite strip club.

barba[/quote]p. s. you don't have to sell me on using mamba. ru. i use it all the time and on every trip i have my list of preferred contacts. however, i am realistic about the possibilities and shortcomings of using websites, and i prefer to see my prey beforehand. the good news is the reports of prices having come down to more reasonable levels in the regular nightclubs, which is where i think one's mongering time should be spent in the evenings.

i will say one additional thing about mamba. ru. that if one wants to be more effective and raise the chances of luck in finding a hottie, one can approach it as finding freebies, rather than p4p, and also approach it as a numbers game. i wrote in a previous post about what i called the "hunter dave method", not because he is the only one using it, but because he was the veteran monger who convinced me that the method has merit. this method is simply a form of speed dating, which has become popular of late with many singles organizations. the method consists of selecting four or five different nice date locations in cafes or bars around the downtown area not too far from each other, and scheduling short dates one after another, back to back each day. after spending a reasonable amount of time sufficient to see what one needs to see about each girl, one makes excuses about business to attend to, and hurries off to the next date at the next location, and either one does or does not ask for another meeting before leaving the initial date. if a girl is too late for her date as scheduled, she gets bumped and rescheduled, as one sticks to the original schedule of dates. before long one will have gone through quite a number of girls and will know which ones are desirable as repeats, and eventually to be invited to one's apartment on some pretext. this is not p4p dating. it is freebie dating. but it can lead to meetings with very pretty girls and in some instances great sex, if you can close the deal. of course, to be successful, one needs to be presentable and charming. but a large age difference is no impediment. and of course to implement this method and reach a conclusion with any girl, one needs some time. it isn't going to get you much sex on a three day visit to kiev, for which it is probably better to stick to seeking p4p so that one can to the point more quickly.

lj

[QUOTE=Maha Siddha;1292863]How to find these 50-60 USD pretty teenage girls in Kiev?[/QUOTE]Why don't you read what you posted in the link above. Its in the body of the link.

Or do you want us to read it for you?

You are now really asking for someone to Flame you.

With such an attiude like yours, it won't be long before you get scammed in Donetsk when you land there.

and now you call me a liar lj, just because you do not know how to handle dating sites and social sites. you have serious problems, man. must the girls be paid for you to dare to communicate? it sounds like you live in the 80s when computers where yet a mysterious novelty. pull your head out of your fixation and look around on isg and you will see that i am not alone in meeting hot girls in sited like mamba, tagged, vk, dia, fb, etc. your view on mamba is pure fantasy.

the concept is not so different from what you describe with speed dating, just that you start preparing your trip a couple of weeks before you land. just do the same shit you do in real life. talk to the woman! response patterns will be homogeneous and stochastic if you are talking to software or someone maintaining several profiles. you will know if it is a real female in just two-three message exchanges. i apply a 60-80% rule on all pictures i see in life. a hotel is normally 60-80% of what you see on agoda. same with women. and then sometimes you get positively surprised and find someone that is 120. i gave indicators of how to do it in my previous post and for anyone that really wanted to learn, it is all here on the board in my posts and other mongers posts. read it again and try to understand what it is about. it is not rocket science. spend some time socializing and you will soon realize that the act of finding real and hot girls on any social site can be described in four steps, where i recommend the three first if you want to limit your rate of failures. the first three steps will not take you more than 15-30 minutes normally and you can do it when you should work.

1. introduction: make your introduction message honest, serious and entertaining. adapt the introduction to what you hope for with the girl. if she shows her vagina in the pictures you maybe can skip the part about wanting a friendly and fun girl to hang out with.

2. initial communication: this is normally when you can determine what direction you are going. is it a saloon / brothel, a hard core pro, a semi-pro or a girlfriend? if it is a saloon you just save the number with a note. if it is a hard core pro i always ask her if the pictures are real in a way that invites her to disclose the truth (i for example lie and tell her it does not matter because i just want a massage and a hand job). if it is a semi pro or a girlfriend, we move on to the sniffing phase.

3. sniffing phase: this was described by the first class monger kongking once and can be summarized as the part when dogs sniff each-others ass. you joke around and check how the girl responds. do not push her, but lead her and be careful to back off. do not write "can i see your tits" and start to jerk off. this phase is to get to know her and to make her acquainted and comfortable with you. if you use cam you make sure you are well dressed and smile a lot. girls like to be entertained. smile, chat, talk, joke, be naughty, back off, be serious. any joke about sex should be made with panning and consideration. if you get fed up with the smiling, close the cam and whip out your dick after she stopped looking at you.

4. mating phase: it is often overkill to take things into this phase already before you met, but if you are into cam sex it is the way to go. i will not mention numbers but have had many girls undressing and even masturbated in cam for me until the orgasmed. if you reach this phase, you pretty much know what to expect when you meet. in this phase you can test her limits. if i for example want to fuck a girl without condom i am normally attracted to her beyond the first level and to what i call genetic attraction. the level where you just feel in your body that you want to pump her full of sperm and make her pregnant. if this is the case, i will tell her about my attraction and then joke with the girl in a half serious and half humoristic way that i want to make her pregnant. her response will be conservative because she is a woman, but the seed is there and you leave it for some other chat. last girl i fucked in ukraine moaned "i want you to cum in me now" when i fucked her doggy. this after declaring numerous times that condoms is a must both to prevent std and unwanted pregnancy. after i came i naturally got back to my rational self and we went out to buy emergency pills. next day i pumped her full with sperm again and she kissed me and pushed her vagina against my pumping t-rex. she knows i am married but still is a slave to her desire to reproduce.

lj, for me you come across as yet another guy who needs to win a stupid [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] fight here. when i read what you write it strikes me that you most likely do not give a sh*t about learning anything, as you claim to. your so called help to newbies often amounts to directing them to rio. what if i am right? what if i do meet tier one girls on these sites? all these failures in previous reports has nothing to do with the validity of what i write. you are smart enough to know that such argumentation is just stupid and to low even to argue your case here on isg. when did you ever post a picture on this site? look at my history and then evaluate if i am a bull shit artist or if i know what i am talking about. what you do in your long rants is just low life argumentation techniques that you hide behind your fancy formulations. even if 100 isg mongers are chatting with chat robots on vk, there can still be one guy that understands how things work. i used to like reading your detailed reports but lost respect for you lj. keep going to rio if you love it so much. that is where you belong when you stick your head up your ass and refuse to see the world in any other perspective than the one you cling to.

i made my point and if anyone need further directives on how to chat with females, you are welcome to pm me.

b.

[quote=barba; 1293106]and now you call me a liar lj, just because you do not know how to handle dating sites and social sites. you have serious problems, man. must the girls be paid for you to dare to communicate? it sounds like you live in the 80s when computers where yet a mysterious novelty. pull your head out of your fixation and look around on isg and you will see that i am not alone in meeting hot girls in sited like mamba, tagged, vk, dia, fb, etc. your view on mamba is pure fantasy.

the concept is not so different from what you describe with speed dating, just that you start preparing your trip a couple of weeks before you land. just do the same shit you do in real life. talk to the woman! response patterns will be homogeneous and stochastic if you are talking to software or someone maintaining several profiles. you will know if it is a real female in just two-three message exchanges. i apply a 60-80% rule on all pictures i see in life. a hotel is normally 60-80% of what you see on agoda. same with women. and then sometimes you get positively surprised and find someone that is 120. i gave indicators of how to do it in my previous post and for anyone that really wanted to learn, it is all here on the board in my posts and other mongers posts. read it again and try to understand what it is about. it is not rocket science. spend some time socializing and you will soon realize that the act of finding real and hot girls on any social site can be described in four steps, where i recommend the three first if you want to limit your rate of failures. the first three steps will not take you more than 15-30 minutes normally and you can do it when you should work.

1. introduction: make your introduction message honest, serious and entertaining. adapt the introduction to what you hope for with the girl. if she shows her vagina in the pictures you maybe can skip the part about wanting a friendly and fun girl to hang out with.

2. initial communication: this is normally when you can determine what direction you are going. is it a saloon / brothel, a hard core pro, a semi-pro or a girlfriend? if it is a saloon you just save the number with a note. if it is a hard core pro i always ask her if the pictures are real in a way that invites her to disclose the truth (i for example lie and tell her it does not matter because i just want a massage and a hand job). if it is a semi pro or a girlfriend, we move on to the sniffing phase.

3. sniffing phase: this was described by the first class monger kongking once and can be summarized as the part when dogs sniff each-others ass. you joke around and check how the girl responds. do not push her, but lead her and be careful to back off. do not write "can i see your tits" and start to jerk off. this phase is to get to know her and to make her acquainted and comfortable with you. if you use cam you make sure you are well dressed and smile a lot. girls like to be entertained. smile, chat, talk, joke, be naughty, back off, be serious. any joke about sex should be made with panning and consideration. if you get fed up with the smiling, close the cam and whip out your dick after she stopped looking at you.

4. mating phase: it is often overkill to take things into this phase already before you met, but if you are into cam sex it is the way to go. i will not mention numbers but have had many girls undressing and even masturbated in cam for me until the orgasmed. if you reach this phase, you pretty much know what to expect when you meet. in this phase you can test her limits. if i for example want to fuck a girl without condom i am normally attracted to her beyond the first level and to what i call genetic attraction. the level where you just feel in your body that you want to pump her full of sperm and make her pregnant. if this is the case, i will tell her about my attraction and then joke with the girl in a half serious and half humoristic way that i want to make her pregnant. her response will be conservative because she is a woman, but the seed is there and you leave it for some other chat. last girl i fucked in ukraine moaned "i want you to cum in me now" when i fucked her doggy. this after declaring numerous times that condoms is a must both to prevent std and unwanted pregnancy. after i came i naturally got back to my rational self and we went out to buy emergency pills. next day i pumped her full with sperm again and she kissed me and pushed her vagina against my pumping t-rex. she knows i am married but still is a slave to her desire to reproduce.

lj, for me you come across as yet another guy who needs to win a stupid [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] fight here. when i read what you write it strikes me that you most likely do not give a sh*t about learning anything, as you claim to. your so called help to newbies often amounts to directing them to rio. what if i am right? what if i do meet tier one girls on these sites? all these failures in previous reports has nothing to do with the validity of what i write. you are smart enough to know that such argumentation is just stupid and to low even to argue your case here on isg. when did you ever post a picture on this site? look at my history and then evaluate if i am a bull shit artist or if i know what i am talking about. what you do in your long rants is just low life argumentation techniques that you hide behind your fancy formulations. even if 100 isg mongers are chatting with chat robots on vk, there can still be one guy that understands how things work. i used to like reading your detailed reports but lost respect for you lj. keep going to rio if you love it so much. that is where you belong when you stick your head up your ass and refuse to see the world in any other perspective than the one you cling to.

i made my point and if anyone need further directives on how to chat with females, you are welcome to pm me.

b.[/quote]barba, this is a very poor attempt at laying out a methodology to guide others on how to approach using the mamba. ru website to succeed in getting only pretty girls to come to your apartment or meet you, as you claim to be able to do, as you wrote in your previous post that you never had an ugly or fat girl show up from mamba. ru. there is very little detail, or dialogue examples to illustrate what you say should be done. try fleshing it out more. in its current form it is basically useless. inviting pm's for further instructions is the lazy man's way out. there isn't any reason you should be afraid to write something with more substance on the topic of using mamba. ru to successfully get only hotties, like you claim you can do.

let's see, there are many, many prior reports on this thread from all sorts of mongers reporting getting very unattractive plain girls showing up at their doorstep from mamba. ru, which were written over the past year, and i'm sure going further back in time as well. almost all who report on using mamba, disclose how the pictures were mostly fake and lots of unappealing girls showed up from mamba. and that after a number of tries, they eventually got lucky and a girl that was presentable or even somewhat hot showed up. that's the reported experience on this thread. then there is you, barba, who claims to have never gotten an ugly girl or unappealing girl from mamba. you claim that you have a system that succeeds in helping you avoid the fake pictures and get only the true beauties. i didn't call you a liar in my last post. i asked you to put up or shut up. there's a difference. i invited you to rise to the occasion.

you chose instead to write back to me in an antagonistic fashion replete with personal attacks. you further falsified my writings by claiming that all i write is to direct newbies to rio. here you are a liar. i challenge you to actually read my posts and show me where i have done anything of the sort. it's a blatant lie. all my reports are designed to present the options available in kiev in a realistic light, and to expose their pros and cons honestly. that is why when i make a recommendation to use mamba. ru, (and i constantly make that recommendation in almost all my posts mentioning the options in kiev) , i also include the cautionary note about many pictures being fake, and it requiring a lot of persistence and time to get lucky and have a pretty girl show up from that website. it is you who are presenting a distorted picture of mamba. ru to newbies when you write that you only got good looking girls, while failing to adequately disclose and describe the method they must follow to reproduce such uncommon results.

i'm simply not going to respond to your attempts to be insulting. what's the point? that's your style, not mine. but i will call you out when you bullshit and don't produce a useful description of the method you claim will give success in using mamba. ru, a very important matter, and you suffice instead with a few poorly thought out platitudes with no helpful description or examples that could give others any guidance. you're intelligent enough to know how to write something real. i invite you to try again and improve on your first effort. you don't need to embellish more on the last part of your t-rex spewing sperm into your moaning devushka. i think you covered that ground adequately. i'm talking about your points 1-3. you gloss over the beginning points. why? this is the most crucial part. remember, the problems most mongers are having is in weeding out fake picture girls. most girls refuse to send additional pics when requested. is your advice to simply skip those girls, or something else? are you looking.

for profiles of girls who have "looking for sponsor" or "offer sex for money" listed in their profiles, or are you avoiding all such girls. there are many more questions that arise in using mamba. ru. if you are going to produce something usefull, you need to think about what issues and questions a newbie will encounter and have in using mamba and give your insights and guidance on each point. i am open minded about reading anything further you may choose to write on the topic, which will be helpful.

there's no need to be toxic. we're on the same side.

lj

Hi,

Now we are in the Euro Cup 2012 season, which are girl prices in comparison of four months ago? Which kind of girls are available?

LJ, I read the first three lines and had to stop. It is only you who don't understand. I will just come and hold your hand instead, LJ. I will help you to type even.

You are the first to make it onto my block list ever here on ISG. Not because you are pathetic but because you are meaningless.

I will not see your responses but I am sure they will be lengthy and verbose, aiming at defending your manhood for your fantasy mates here at ISG. Don't forget to mention RIO at least once a day here.

Barba

So much space here after adding LJ to my ignore list. Lovely. Never used the ignore list before in all those years but I can recommend it if you come across someone you find really pointless.

AColonizer, I will come over in July and the ones I have quotations from ranged from 80-200 USD, with no correlation to looks or age. I found them on Mabma and believe it or not, they conformed that they are real and we have exchanged messaged on Mamba and / or Skype.

B.

Checked my messages on VK and out of the blue a girl contacted me. I emailed (spammed) her in the past, and now she decided to catch me. Said it was because of Euro but I am sure my picture showing fake-Barba and a girl on a tropical vacation destination has something to do with it. 20 years old an pretty, but used to be even prettier when she was 16 and illegal from what I can judge by the mini skirt pictures. She has a job and her own apartment. Works as an interpreter during the Euro event so she can be found by all you football fans.

I just sent her my real pictures and talked for a while about her (not me. Another trick you incapable and self centered looser can learn from) and now we have a date in July. We will "just eat and talk" but we all (well not all, but most) knows how that will go. A surprise and nice change to Barba constantly spamming girls. She has 180 pictures of herself and a story to share about many, so I am pretty confident she is whom she claims to be. She just told me Vodka bar is like the streets of red light in Kiev, where only cheap girls (as in not good girls) go. She then continued to tell me the name of some good normal clubs. PM me if you want to know. I do not want to pollute the thread with non Rio related facts.

How did Barba do it? He COMMUNICATED with her for several minutes. Why do I share this? To show that it is worth the few minutes per day it takes to entertain your online profiles. I fucked many hundred girls in the Philippines over the years and 80% of these I initially met online (and 0, 01% in strip clubs). By far most of these are normal girls that are looking for a husband but will settle for some distraction or money until they find that husband. Teenage virgins require a lot of work, and single mothers is a 2 minute job to get to the sniffing phase (see below). But as always you get what you pay for (time is also payment).

Work the sites, gentlemen. It WILL pay off.

Barba.

[QUOTE=LilJoey;1292877]Alas, the Mamba pictures are mostly fake[/QUOTE]This needs to be corrected for all readers. It is a lie.

[QUOTE=Barba; 1293496]LJ, I read the first three lines and had to stop. It is only you who don't understand. I will just come and hold your hand instead, LJ. I will help you to type even.

You are the first to make it onto my block list ever here on ISG. Not because you are pathetic but because you are meaningless.

I will not see your responses but I am sure they will be lengthy and verbose, aiming at defending your manhood for your fantasy mates here at ISG. Don't forget to mention RIO at least once a day here.

Barba[/QUOTE]Well there you have it folks. When challenged to be more detailed in describing his methodology for never getting ugly or fat girls from mamba. Ru website, as he claims he does, and write something that could be helpful to others on this thread, Barba shows his true colors and backs out, resorts to insults, and exposes himself as an arrogant guy who boasts and boasts about his fictional abilities, but can't deliver anything helpful to others so they can reproduce the amazingly successful results he claims he gets. You all can rest assured that there is no truth in his claims to be able to only get hotties when using mamba. Ru. So many others who have posted about their experiences using mamba have had experiences very different from those claimed by Barba. So take his bragging with a very large grain of salt.

Mamba. Ru is a useful tool in meeting both p4p WG's as well as regular girls in Kiev. But care must be exercised in its use. And one should not have unreasonably high expectations for girls as hot as some of the pictures in the profiles on mamba. I'm not saying hot girls are not possible to get from mamba. Ru on the first try. I'm only saying it's not very probable. You need to be willing to keep trying multiple times. Then the odds and probabilities start working in your favor.

Unfortunately, The mamba. Ru website is loaded with phony ads and false pictures. Many escort agencies and girl apartments use it to advertise and get clients and post multiple profiles, deleting them often and repostimg with other pics, and the pics bear absolutely no relation to the actual girls. They don't even try to send the same type of girl as in a picture ad on a call to your apartment. The great and significant majority use fake pictures. That is why the girls who show up mostly never look like their pictures in the profile.

However, having noted the above truth substantiated by the reports of many on this thread going back in time, that decidedly does NOT mean one should refrain from using websites like mamba. Ru in a place like Kiev! On the contrary, one should use these websites to get to very inexpensive girls, who ask for very low prices of between $50 to $100 / hour. Yes, there is a problem with fake pictures.

BUT, here is the point, so pay attention, in a place like Kiev the population has a fairly high percentage of young girls who are skinny and naturally nice looking. Statistically, therefore, you have a good chance of meeting a sexy, pretty young girl entirely by random chance with a decently high degree of probability, as long as you keep trying for a reasonable amount of time. A hottie won't show up at your door from mamba. Ru because she matches the picture you saw on her profile. She will show up accidentally by random chance of whoever is on the other end of the phone number you called. But there are so many hot young girls in the population pool in a place like Kiev, that you stand a statistically reasonable chance of encountering a hottie if you roll the dice enough times. This is what I meant by saying you can be successful on getting a hottie using mamba. Ru if you invest sufficient time and have persistence. It's a numbers game, and you can eventually win. So keep ordering girls from mamba to come to your apartment, and keep sending away the ones who are not to your liking, because eventually, and maybe even sooner rather than later, you will encounter a girl that is to your liking.

Now the foregoing mostly applies to girls who openly say in their mamba profiles that they "offer sex for money" or that they "are seeking a sponsor". Or even, as has become more common recently, that they are interested in "a one night stand" or want "to have fun", which are often simply euphemisms concealing a purpose to meet guys for money. One has to communicate a little to see if that's the intent, or it's just a regular girl. Mamba has sent out notifications On the website that they don't want so much the overt advertisement or solicitation of sex for money. So it will be done covertly, using euphemisms and double talk in the future, I would assume.

However, regular girls not looking for p4p or sponsorship on the mamba website can be spoken to in the regular way, and dated using the "Hunter Dave Method" I described in my previous post. And with these girls it might be possible to have an exchange of pictures, so you will know more or less what she looks like before dating.

However, with p4p professional WG's or semi-pros operating on mamba. Ru to get clients, a date in a cafe or bar is almost a waste of time for them unless you're paying them for it. They want to come directly to your apartment to get it on for money. They have posted an enticing picture on their profile to get customers. They have little incentive to admit to you that it is a fake picture, and to send you their real picture, which is usually not as hot, because their entire marketing model is based on the idea of "getting their foot into your door". Once they are there in your apartment, they hope that your strung out libido and lust for sex will take over and you will let them stay so you can get your rocks off, even though they are not as hot as the pics. It's called "bait and switch". It exists because it works most of the time, as men a very horny man, is very weak willed to chase out of his apartment a girl who has even some appeal when he really has sex on the brain. With regard to these p4p girls, or the Madame or phone person who is responding for their agency to the dopes who are conducting "chats" with them and trying to figure out, a la Barba, if the pic is a fake, it doesn't matter what the picture looks like. Assume it's fake and play the numbers game.

To my mind, only if you are not trying to get p4p off of mamba. Ru, but rather you are seeking to get regular dates with regular girls, does the issue of trying to get their true pictures make any sense, and have a good chance of happening, as it is common on social sites for the parties to want to see each other before agreeing to go on a date. But that's a different world than pay 4 play, money for sex prostitution.

LJ

[QUOTE=Roll Buzz;1293547]This needs to be corrected for all readers. It is a lie.[/QUOTE]It's unfortunate you would post such misinformation. I had presumed you know better that the pics of the p4p girls on mamba. Ru are mostly agency profiles and fake pics. Why would you want to mislead newbies on such a basic fact of widely reported experience.

For those of you newbies out there who are confused about the issue of mamba. Ru pics for p4p girls being mostly fake or not, due to this endorsement by Roll Buzz of mamba. Ru pics as true pics, just read the prior reports on the thread of those who reported on their use of mamba. Ru. Then you will be in a position to decide whether to accept Roll Buzz's endorsement of mamba. Ru pictures being mostly true pictures as he seems to claim, or being mostly fake pictures as the bulk of the past reports dealing with this issue clearly state.

LJ

[QUOTE=Barba;1293499]So much space here after adding LJ to my ignore list. Lovely. Never used the ignore list before in all those years but I can recommend it if you come across someone you find really pointless.[/QUOTE]FYI, I put LJ on the ignore list first. That Rio bs was driving me crazy!

L'J has changed his earlier statement of 'most pics being fake, ' to (misleading) :

[QUOTE=LilJoey;1293555]. mamba. Ru pics for p4p girls being mostly fake[/QUOTE]Maybe many p4p-profiles present fake or fabricated photos, but I have met dozens of mamba girls and only one did look different from photo. She explained it that the real girl was on holiday, and she was jumping in her place. And yes, there is another girl with pic of Adele in her profile, but she is def not a p4p girl! It should bebcorrected when people, in the heat of the argument, make false statements.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1293594]FYI, I put LJ on the ignore list first. That Rio bs was driving me crazy![/QUOTE]Yea, I suspected he had ended up on you list already. I see he wrote new reports and I am glad I do not have to scroll pass them.

Climaxnow, I PM:ed you a girl some time ago to open up for some sharing. I am a sharing kind of guy, so no need for you to feel pressure to counter produce anything. I like the fact that you considered profile swapping. Some guys here called it naive and so on if I remember correct, but I do not agree. Everyone knows that we do not share our gems unless it is real monger brothers, but to help out each-other and to trade profiles of pure working girls, is normal for many circles on ISG. I have a few really good mates from here, and we share most of the willing girls we find (unless we f*ck them together). In addition some ten-twelve good mates that like to help each other when possible, but where I think we all limit ourselves a little bit to reduce the pressure on the gems. Especially mamasan type of girls I like to share and receive, since this open up circles of friends that can be a gold mine. Most often the price is pretty fixed and everyone knows the deal from start. I hate bullshit and aggression before sex. Makes my dick soft.

I was killing some time just now and spammed fifteen selected pretty girls on mamba. Got contact with one quite hot blond. She is an 8, 34976 on the normalized monger scale. Likes to travel and so do I, so we are totally compatible. LOL. We are scheduled for Skype later tonight so we will see how that goes.

B.

[QUOTE=Roll Buzz;1293701]L'J has changed his earlier statement of 'most pics being fake, ' to (misleading) :[/QUOTE]RB,

That is because he is a bull shit artist that goes the errands of others. And if he does not have that job, he is an even more pathetic person than I thought. At the end of the day we all meet up at one point or another in monger universe, and since I have close friend who met LJ, I know what kind of pocket wanker he is. He want to be the cool and initiated guy here on the board (as opposed to real life) at every cost, and truth is not significant in such ego-quests. Make it simple for yourself and use the ignore functionality. Let time tell who knows anything about punani hunt and who is just a keyboard knight.

Speaking of sites, I want to mention one site that I find really useful. Tagged. Com. Please use this site with care and balance. This is absolutely not the site where you find P4P girls lined up but the ones I call yellow girls, ie girls that will play for some "gifts". It is not packed with EE girls, but still worth a visit. I have four Ukrainian girls that I met there so far out of 20 contacted, and I have verified that they are what they claim to be. Met many many many females on that site from other countries in the past. I never use my own real pictures for various reason, but always email my pics or show myself on cam once they took the bait. And as stated earlier you should AVOID ripping out your dick in cam before you can feel she is pulling in that direction. Girls always want to pretend to be virtuous and as soon as she feels the shadow of shame, she will go all out and blame YOU for whatever she feels. Lead the way with a firm hand but make her always feel she is a good girl doing something exciting and normal.

All the best from Barba

Indeed. Well said. I completely agree. Nobody should be paying more than $100 USD per hour or $150 for the whole night.

However, if it is someone you really like, AND who likes you, with whom you might have a long term relationship, you shoudl pay LESS, not more. To me, $100 for sex, and about $10 / hour for spending time with you without sex seems reasonable. I had such arrangements a few times. The first one, after spending the night for $150, I told her I wanted to see her agian the next night, but also during the day, no sex, just to hang out. She said she was busy. I offered her 100 Grn per hour, which is at least 5 times what she would be making at her regular job, and the schedule magically cleared up. So she went home in the morning, came back a few hours later, and spent the afternoon with me at the beach, enjoying herself, while earning 500 GRN. Two nights later she spent the night with me, again, paid. With another girl, after spending the night, paid, I asked her if she knew of any good "tour guides" and she immediately offerd herself. The "tour" ended back at my place with a freebie. I kindly doubled her "touring fee".

Yes, these are the benefits of not picking up hardened professionals.

If you are going to be paying $800 per night, just stay home. That is more than a whole month's salary!

[QUOTE=Barba; 1292763]Newbiez, I read in an article that you can find streetwalkers outside metro station Politechnitjnyj institut. You should also try Mamba for freelancers or the massage saloons mentioned here in the past. Guys on the street will hand you flyers advertising "massage" and a Kiev senior told me that those places should absolutely be tested if you have the time. One article reports over 9000 prostitutes in Kiev, plus all the students that are just paid "girlfriends", so I am sure there is more options for p*ssy than the now probably very well visited nightclub.

When I see the numbers discussed here I am just amazed. Who the f*ck pays 800 USD for a night with a wh*re? Or even 400? If it is a girl youreally like and have a relationship with things are different, but when there are pretty teenage girls for 80 USD waiting to see you, why pay ten times more just to sleep next to her? I met at least one that I consider an 8, and friends here sends me pictures of really pretty girls that they fucked for 50-60 USD per hour, so this board is in serious need of a reality check. I am not a fan of Cruiser D's arrogant tone at times, but folks here should listen to the message he broadcast!

Barba[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Roll Buzz; 1293701]L'J has changed his earlier statement of 'most pics being fake, ' to (misleading) :

Maybe many p4p-profiles present fake or fabricated photos, but I have met dozens of mamba girls and only one did look different from photo. She explained it that the real girl was on holiday, and she was jumping in her place. And yes, there is another girl with pic of Adele in her profile, but she is def not a p4p girl! It should bebcorrected when people, in the heat of the argument, make false statements.[/QUOTE]Roll Buzz, I'm not sure what you're talking about regarding any change in my statement. To be clear, it is my understanding from the reports of many mongers on this thread going back over the past year, that the pictures in the mamba profiles of most p4p (pay for play) girls, I. E. Prostitutes, are not the pictures of the actual girl who shows up at one's apartment for the appointment. Therefore, the girl who shows up will most of the time be a different girl than the girl in the photos you thought you were inviting over to your apartment. Because of this, instead of the pretty and hot girl in the photos on the mamba profile, the girl who shows up is a plain, unattractive, much older, and / or fatter girl than the one you expected. It is a very commonly reported experience on this thread by mongers using mamba to get p4p outcall escorts to come to their apartment for paid sex. Often, also even though the girl on the phone, who swears she is the girl in the photos, and is the girl who is coming over, speaks English well, whereas the girl who is sent from the agency or girl apartment to your doorstep, has no English skills at all, because she is a different girl. However, that being said, it is still worth it to try using mamba for p4p, because many mongers also report that eventually a hot girl did show up, after they had to send away some girls who didn't look good enough. It's a numbers game, and eventually you will get a girl who is doable or even better than that and quite hot.

Now Roll Buzz, I said most of the pictures of the p4p girls are not the actual girl, to allow for the minority of girls who operate independently and actually do use their own pics. I have experienced this too. In fact, I recall our own communicating in the past about a girl named Linda on mamba who had a very wired personality but who used true pics. But it is a minority of cases and cannot be counted on.

Finally, p4p girls on mamba, are a different type of girl than regular girls not looking to be paid for sex, and only interested in regular dating. The regular girls are far more likely to use real pics.

LJ

Very exciting debate. But what about the Euro Cup?

Could someone here give us some information about the current situation in Kiev? Girl prices? Atmosphere in the city? How behave the Swedish Guys? And the english and french?

I will be in Kiev next week, If anyone wants to hang out with me, feel free to PM me.

[QUOTE=Barba; 1293706]Yea, I suspected he had ended up on you list already. I see he wrote new reports and I am glad I do not have to scroll pass them.

Climaxnow, I PM:ed you a girl some time ago to open up for some sharing. I am a sharing kind of guy, so no need for you to feel pressure to counter produce anything. I like the fact that you considered profile swapping. Some guys here called it naive and so on if I remember correct, but I do not agree. Everyone knows that we do not share our gems unless it is real monger brothers, but to help out each-other and to trade profiles of pure working girls, is normal for many circles on ISG. I have a few really good mates from here, and we share most of the willing girls we find (unless we f*ck them together). In addition some ten-twelve good mates that like to help each other when possible, but where I think we all limit ourselves a little bit to reduce the pressure on the gems. Especially mamasan type of girls I like to share and receive, since this open up circles of friends that can be a gold mine. Most often the price is pretty fixed and everyone knows the deal from start. I hate bullshit and aggression before sex. Makes my dick soft.

I was killing some time just now and spammed fifteen selected pretty girls on mamba. Got contact with one quite hot blond. She is an 8, 34976 on the normalized monger scale. Likes to travel and so do I, so we are totally compatible. LOL. We are scheduled for Skype later tonight so we will see how that goes.

B.[/QUOTE]Hi Barba,

Thanks for the girl you pm'd. I'm all about sharing but I soon realized that you have to be careful about sharing and sometimes things are just not as they seem on this thread. Anyhow, I will return soon to Kiev and if I find something I am comfortable sharing, I will pm you with contact info. Good luck with your Mamba leads.

I disagree with about getting bbj from girls at RIO too.

Look how many hookers do bbj at gia [url]http://gia.la/[/url]

The number of dancers who do bbj at RIO is much less than gia.

If LJ is not a shill then he is just stupid, only a dumb loser would spend so much time writing all this bullshit and think RIO is his best option, what a fool

[QUOTE=Barba; 1293496]LJ, I read the first three lines and had to stop. It is only you who don't understand. I will just come and hold your hand instead, LJ. I will help you to type even.

You are the first to make it onto my block list ever here on ISG. Not because you are pathetic but because you are meaningless.

I will not see your responses but I am sure they will be lengthy and verbose, aiming at defending your manhood for your fantasy mates here at ISG. Don't forget to mention RIO at least once a day here.

Barba[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Stevie69; 1293727]Indeed. Well said. I completely agree. Nobody should be paying more than $100 USD per hour or $150 for the whole night.

However, if it is someone you really like, AND who likes you, with whom you might have a long term relationship, you shoudl pay LESS, not more.[/QUOTE]I should put you in contact with my wife. She needs to hear this. LOL.

B.

[QUOTE=Stevie69; 1293727]Indeed. Well said. I completely agree. Nobody should be paying more than $100 USD per hour or $150 for the whole night.

However, if it is someone you really like, AND who likes you, with whom you might have a long term relationship, you shoudl pay LESS, not more. To me, $100 for sex, and about $10 / hour for spending time with you without sex seems reasonable. I had such arrangements a few times. The first one, after spending the night for $150, I told her I wanted to see her agian the next night, but also during the day, no sex, just to hang out. She said she was busy. I offered her 100 Grn per hour, which is at least 5 times what she would be making at her regular job, and the schedule magically cleared up. So she went home in the morning, came back a few hours later, and spent the afternoon with me at the beach, enjoying herself, while earning 500 GRN. Two nights later she spent the night with me, again, paid. With another girl, after spending the night, paid, I asked her if she knew of any good "tour guides" and she immediately offerd herself. The "tour" ended back at my place with a freebie. I kindly doubled her "touring fee".

Yes, these are the benefits of not picking up hardened professionals.

If you are going to be paying $800 per night, just stay home. That is more than a whole month's salary![/QUOTE]I highly endorse the advice and description of how to negotiate more time for a reasonable price with p4p girls in Kiev whose initial hourly fee is 800 UAH ($100 USD) or less. It does work. Such girls can be gotten from websites like mamba. Ru or top-modals. Com or other websites that advertise p4p girls. But I surmise it would probably work more with p4p girls who are independent or who are semi-pro, and might not be as easy to achieve with those girls who are part of an agency, because the agency girls are most likely responsible to the agency for their time in some fashion. I guess it depends on what their set up is. Obviously if they are working at a girl apartment each day, their presence will be missed by that employer and a deal on more time with them might be more difficult to get. On the other hand, they might be freelancers who are on call with agencies, and do have much more personal flexibility on how to spend their time in between calls. And if they have another regular job during the day, they might find a way to take some time to earn higher dollars with you.

Yet even with agency girls it would be possible to get a lower rate for multiple hours bookings which are normally priced as a package deal, and not priced as simply a multiple of the initial 1 hour rate multiplied by how many hours. Once you get past the fee for a 1 hour booking, and the fee for a 2 or 3 hours, which is also a reduced rate package usually and not simply double or triple the initial hourly rate, the next step would likely be a package deal on "all night". You might not get it for just another $50, but you should becable to negotiate a reduced rate package deal, nevertheless, even with agency girls.

The package deal for "all night" bookings, or as Stevie69 points out, also for "all day", is where the real savings possible in p4p in Kiev comes into play. And this is true not only with the less expensive $75 or $100 / hr girls one can get on mamba. Ru and other p4p websites, with resulting all night or all day package deals for another $50 to $100. It is also true when dealing with the high end very expensive options in Kiev also, such as the very hottest girls one might find in nightclubs, whose prices are their own to negotiate, as well as the hottest girls ine can find in strip clubs where the prices are more controlled. In all these situations, the package deal prices for "all night", usually result in a much lower per hour rate, making the cost more tolerable. For example, the "all night" fee at strip club Dolls is 4000 UAH ($500 USD) on their printed menu, while the "all night" fee at strip club Rio, had been $400 for the longest time. At Rio the girl would leave by 5:00 am club closing time, so since they opened the club at 8:00 pm, the maximum number of hours one could get for an "all night" booking was 8 to 9 hours, which meant that the fee per hour was $400/8= $50 per hour.

At River Palace in 2010, I once took one of the extremely beautiful girls out after some negotiation for $300 for "2 to 3 hours". Some of the veterans may remember her. Her name was Sasha. She was a Russian from Moscow. She told me she had a law degree. I could see why she ended up in a different trade at River Palace. Shevwas very good at what she did, and had the guys eating outbof her hand. There was unfortunately lots of competition for her. So this put a crimp in my ability to negotiate her down, and to wait until she came down in price. Waiting only insured that anither lustful guy would grab her. So I agreed to her $300 price, intending to push for the 3 hours. The reason I mention this girl from River Palace is that she ultimately was a fantastic lay, as well as an educated girl with good conversation skills and fun to be with, and I wanted her another time for "all night". An "all night" fee was negotiated with her for $500. Pricey? Yes, quite pricey. But less than double her initial $300 fee, for many more hours together with her.

It's the power of the package deal.

Obviously, the package deal with a girl from mamba. Ru would be much cheaper than such nightclub girl rates, and normally be something like between $200. $300 for an "all night" booking even with agency girls from the mamba site. It would be each individual monger's choice which way to go. To book a mamba girl for an all-nighter, or to go hunting even more beautiful girls in the nightclubs like D'lux, or Arena or others and try to work out a good deal with one of those hotties, or the same at a strip club with their hottest girls.

The only thing is that I don't think it so adviseable to consider an "all night" with any girl, until she has proven her merit in a short term booking previously with you. So really it's more for repeat business, or in the case envisioned by Stevie69, for an all day booking with a girl in whose arms you have spent the night, and you know you will enjoy her pleasant company. And also obviously, this whole idea of long term all night or all day bookings will only appeal to a monger who enjoys the company of a beautiful girl even not for sex but just for companionship and is happy to pay a reasonable rate for companionship also. However, there are mongers who are very bottom line oriented, and though they ate willing to pay for an hour to have sex, once they shoot their load, they have no interest in paying a girl to spend companionship time. So of course to each his own.

The foregoing is why a price of $800 being extracted by a girl at Rio for a booking ending at 5:00 am, is so objectionable. It exceeds the club's own well known "all night" fee of $400, by double. And it represents simply a multiple of the $100 / hour rate for as many hours, and reflects no package deal rate for all night, as is customary universally. The monger who paid $800 for all night was cheated by price gouging apparently going on at Rio. He could have avoided it had he read this thread more carefully and known the usual prices in advance. The price gouging it represents is unprecedented, and that's why it's so objectionable, even in the high priced venue where it occurred.

LJ

[QUOTE=Barba; 1293499]So much space here after adding LJ to my ignore list. Lovely. Never used the ignore list before in all those years but I can recommend it if you come across someone you find really pointless.

AColonizer, I will come over in July and the ones I have quotations from ranged from 80-200 USD, with no correlation to looks or age. I found them on Mabma and believe it or not, they conformed that they are real and we have exchanged messaged on Mamba and / or Skype.[/QUOTE]Glad you discovered the "ignore" function. Embrace "Ignore", it is your best friend here!

But if you are still reading Acolons messages, then you are not being selective enough!

[quote=gentleman travel; 1294698]glad you discovered the "ignore" function. embrace "ignore", it is your best friend here!

but if you are still reading acolons messages, then you are not being selective enough![/quote]he is full of bs but still the essence of what he writes has truth to it. and i like the fact that he brings some perverted spice to this board. i actually wish he would post more about rep002s and all night ass f*cking. beats pages and pages of badly disguised commercials for "the club" or what suit to buy to be hip this week.

gt, i like your name. bet the girls does as well. i have a similar alias on many sites. one that indicates some classy treatment and "global precense". corny name but females like free shit, and few things are better than a free travel for many. that lantern of hope should be lit with a gf to be in order to speed things up towards eating beard burger. i did a few trips with girls and after 3-4 days i normally start to get seriously bored. did anyone here take some ukrainian talent to for example dubai for just a long weekend?

b.

Bravo! If you and your fellows continue on this way, then this thread is not about Kiev but about mental masturbation. Dozens and dozens of flames and gossips!

[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel; 1294698]Glad you discovered the "ignore" function. Embrace "Ignore", it is your best friend here!

But if you are still reading Acolons messages, then you are not being selective enough![/QUOTE]

Again, $300, $500 or $800 for "all night" is insane, not a "package deal". I have read somewhere that the average porn scene lasts 12. 5 minutes. These are professionals. Maybe you are better, two times better, or even 4 times better, and you would still not make it to a full hour.

At FKKs the standard time is 30 minutes. In most cases you see couples coming back out in about 15 (and that includes clean up and whatever else they did there that did not include actual sex). If for some reason you are still gong at the 15 minute mark the girls are surprised, usually not pleasantly surprised, and they might start complaining.

In any case, taking a girl to your apartment or hotel room is different, but still, even with all the preamble and clean-up, and even if you are s super stud that belongs in a porn studio, a session will seldom last longer than 1 hour.

Even if you have the refractory period of an 18 year old and are ready to go again in 15 minutes, there is still the Collidge effect (repeated arousal is easier with different partners). Even if you area able and willing, will she? How many times would she be willing to have sex during that "all night" deal? Maybe I am begin too modest here, but I guess that for most of us. 3 times per night would be the maximum (before going to sleep, in the middle of the night, maybe, if she agrees, and in the morning).

So, mostly you are paying her to sleep. Not even to talk with you, be with you, show you around the city, make you feel good by hanging from your arm in public. You are paying her to sleep. She gets to sleep in an apartment that is likely nicer than her own, and you might not get a good night's sleep.

That is not a package deal. A package deal is standard for the first about (100 USD or less) and less than than (maybe 50) for the second about in the morning. If she wants the full price she can come back in the morning, or she can stay and inconvenience you and sleep there with you.

Otherwise, you are paying her, to sleep. You are paying her half a month's or a full month's salary to sleep for 6 hours. What a great job!

[QUOTE=Barba; 1293496]LJ, I read the first three lines and had to stop. It is only you who don't understand. I will just come and hold your hand instead, LJ. I will help you to type even.

You are the first to make it onto my block list ever here on ISG. Not because you are pathetic but because you are meaningless.

I will not see your responses but I am sure they will be lengthy and verbose, aiming at defending your manhood for your fantasy mates here at ISG. Don't forget to mention RIO at least once a day here.

Barba[/QUOTE]To block annoying folks is the most wise thing ever, no need to waste precious energy arguing with weasels, I had similar experiences on FB an VK and I preferred to use the block function rather than feeding the trolls.

Need som advise, I was in Kiev last week and have a good time at Rio. I want to have contact with a girl that I meet over there. I remember here name but I lost the phone number. I need to know if she's working for the next trip.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Dellam

Stevie, Joey, oy and vey. You're right: put the shills on ignore. Shame it took so long to get this called out.

[url]http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/euro-2012-blog-prostitutes-disappointed-with-foo-2.html#.T-DMCPX4WSp[/url]

I am looking for new sex talents. And I am getting information about places closer my country.

And I am scared by men's nonsense.

I read reports in Ukraine thread. I see a lot of German advertisements throughout [url]www.[/url] I read a lot of reports in Germany and Austria threads. I have contacted prostitutes and a pornstar in Germany.

And I wonder about men's nonsense. Why do men pay prostitutes much more than their regular girls or their wives for pussy condomed fuck (and tongue kiss and pussy lick)? Is it so hard a pussy condomed fuck? Why do men get married with women who don't want sex with their husbands? Why do men get cheated by any kind of chicken girl in that childish way? And why do men continue to pay prostitutes if men are not good at the easier deal with regular girls? And why do men pay crazy prices for sex if men don't know what is real sex and they are surprised for something more than a pussy condomed fuck?

That's frightening what I read throughtout [url]www.[/url] Romanians are all over Western Europe, Romania is the official provider of prostitutes in Western Europa. Romanian government knows that, Romanian families know that, too. Congratulations, Romania is a great country indeed! Romanians have the worst attitude as women and prostitutes. And men don't mind about that, men always pay, anyway. I read about men satisfied by "a good fuck, even if she didn't kiss and she didn't make oral without condom", and I wonder "are you happy to pay a rubber doll"? And men don't mind about that, men always pay, anyway.

Just some men can actually appreciate Ukrainian girls. Just some men can understand the difference between a Romanian and an Ukrainian woman. Ukraine is one of the last place where there are still real females. We should protect this place from men's nonsense. More men always pay anyway, and more Ukrainian girls become like Western girls. More men are not good at dealing, and more Ukrainian women become like Western women. Ukrainian girls are not so easy but they are always interesting for better or for worse. That's always exciting to approach any females anywhere in Ukraine. And there are still men looking for some magic brothels in Kiev where to find the solution of their lives.

And I am scared by men's nonsense.

[quote=stevie69; 1294872]again, $300, $500 or $800 for "all night" is insane, not a "package deal". i have read somewhere that the average porn scene lasts 12. 5 minutes. these are professionals. maybe you are better, two times better, or even 4 times better, and you would still not make it to a full hour.

at fkks the standard time is 30 minutes. in most cases you see couples coming back out in about 15 (and that includes clean up and whatever else they did there that did not include actual sex). if for some reason you are still gong at the 15 minute mark the girls are surprised, usually not pleasantly surprised, and they might start complaining.

in any case, taking a girl to your apartment or hotel room is different, but still, even with all the preamble and clean-up, and even if you are s super stud that belongs in a porn studio, a session will seldom last longer than 1 hour.

even if you have the refractory period of an 18 year old and are ready to go again in 15 minutes, there is still the collidge effect (repeated arousal is easier with different partners). even if you area able and willing, will she? how many times would she be willing to have sex during that "all night" deal? maybe i am begin too modest here, but i guess that for most of us. 3 times per night would be the maximum (before going to sleep, in the middle of the night, maybe, if she agrees, and in the morning).

so, mostly you are paying her to sleep. not even to talk with you, be with you, show you around the city, make you feel good by hanging from your arm in public. you are paying her to sleep. she gets to sleep in an apartment that is likely nicer than her own, and you might not get a good night's sleep.

that is not a package deal. a package deal is standard for the first about (100 usd or less) and less than than (maybe 50) for the second about in the morning. if she wants the full price she can come back in the morning, or she can stay and inconvenience you and sleep there with you.

otherwise, you are paying her, to sleep. you are paying her half a month's or a full month's salary to sleep for 6 hours. what a great job![/quote]dear stevie69,

i actually agree with you about not wanting to pay for sleeping with the girl. i was only trying to point out just the sheer raw economic advantage possible in getting many more hours with a top flight girl in the context of a "package deal" price of usually little more than double the initial hour price, for many, many hours.

of course, to the extent those hours are spent sleeping, it's more or less pissing the money away. personally, i am not an easy sleeper, and just as you said, the presence of a very hot girl in my bed all night, did not help at all, and my sleep was very disturbed the few times i did this.

for me, in a package deal for multiple hours booking, i look at the time i will have that can be enjoyed while awake with a beautiful girl, who has a nice personality and with whom i have fun talking with and sharing time with. at night or during the day this can include going out to nightclub dancing, or eating together, or cuddling in bed together and talking, or necking, kissing and petting like teenagers, or sitting in a jacuzzi together playing with each other's bodies, or massaging her and being massaged by the girl, or going to musical or cultural events, or seeing sights, or to cafes and bars to drink, or to the beach, or bowling, or a thousand other ways a man can enjoy time with a beautiful young girl whom he likes and enjoys her company, your own imagination and the horizon of your interests is the limit. so if for such companionship time the price is very low, it becomes something to consider. also, as time passes with a girl, it is not unusual to get aroused again after some hours pass and since she is with you, sex can happen again.

of course i recognize that there is a big difference in hooking up with a girl who charges only $100 for the first hour, versus a high priced girl one might pick up in a nightclub like d'lux or a strip club, who might charge $200 or $300 for the first couple of hours with her as her initial rate.

i always say that each monger should spend according to how he likes to spend. if $100 suits a monger as a reasonable hourly price, then he should focus on girls from mamba or other websites who ask those lower fees or try to find girls in nightclubs who will agree to those lower fees, and be satisfied with their level of good looks. most mongers who report their experiences with those types of girls claim that they were able to get girls who were in their eyes very beautiful. so why spend more?

but if there are mongers who honestly feel they are not finding girls who are really that beautiful at the lower prices of $75 or $100 / hour, and they wish to get to much more beautiful p4p girls they see all around in the nightclubs and strip clubs, who are asking higher prices of $200 or $300 for several hours, and they have money and are willing to pay those prices to get the more beautiful girls they want, what sense does it make to criticize their desires for bedding the hot but expensive wg's just because you might be satisfied with less? there really is no right and wrong in this, and each monger should spend as he desires. as long as everyone knows what options are available and on the table, everyone should be free to choose as they like, no?

so if i tell you that i feel i have gotten girls for the higher prices of $300 who in my eyes were far more beautiful than the girls i could have gotten for $100, and i am satisfied that i got good value for the extra money paid because of the higher level of beauty i experienced according to the way my eyes saw the beauty, then why can't some mongers live with the idea of to each his own? we all know beauty is subjective, and is in the eyes of the beholder, so even if for example they actually saw my $300 girl, and didn't think she was so much hotter than their $100 girl, the most they could say to themselves would be,"hmmmm, not for me. i would rather take the girl for $100". but what they can't say is that i should prefer their $100 girl, because my feeling was that she was much less hot than the beauty who i took for $300, because that was my opinion about how the two girls compared in the looks department. it's really a silly argument. it's like two guys getting incensed at each other while arguing over which color is better, blue or red? one guy insists that blue is more beautiful, while the other guy says he enjoys red more. ridiculous argument. or maybe we can argue over blondes or brunettes? tall girls or petite girls? it's all a matter of taste.

when you read the debate between prosal and cruiser d about what kind of clothing and accessories are best to wear to kiev nightclubs to be successful with freebie chasing of the hottest models, did you not say once to yourself, well i would not spend so much money on clothing or accessories or mink coats like these guys, it's too much. but for some guys, spending and spending on high fashion clothing is a must. to each his own, or don't you really think so.

the honest monger report will state that in kiev it's best to try to meet a reasonable amount of girls from websites like mamba for $100 or less per hour and try to find the type of girl you want at these lower pricesis available in kiev. and to also go take a look at the type of girls available for p4p in the various nightclubs, as the former river palace scene has spread out to the various nightclubs, and check out the talent at the strip clubs too, but be aware of the higher prices there versus the lower prices on mamba, and only spend more than the low prices if you personally have compared the beauty levels of both types and feel it is worth it to spend more. the job of a reporting monger is to make readers aware of all the options, as well as the pros and cons, the advantages and pitfalls inherent in each option, so that an informed choice can be made by each monger according to his tastes and his pocketbook. there are too many guys on this forum who have totalitarian mindsets and feel they must intimidate by insult and smear anyone who may differ with their own opinion and viewpoint. it's unfortunate that democratic thinking is not so prevalent. such people perhaps have issues with controlling behavior in the rest of their personal lives and are acting out here on this forum. but it's not rational discourse, and is very tiresome.

i would also like to address what you wrote about the fkk's. i always go to an fkk with the intention of saving money "this time" and only having half hour sessions. but i always find that when i like a girl i end up spending an hour with her and sometimes 1. 5 hours. none of that time is spent "cleaning up". one of the great advantages of an fkk is that all of the time in the room is available for sexual activities.

how does an hour and a half go by of sexual activities when the guy is in his 50's, and no pornstar? it's really not such a difficult thing to carry out.

the sexual activities spread over a 1. 5 hour session include kissing the girl all over and giving her oral sex (daty). if a girl is very beautiful, i enjoy very much licking and kissing her pussy, and i get very aroused from doing it, especially if she begins to become aroused from the good feelings of pleasure spilling through her body because of the flicks of my tongue across and around her clitoris, and her moans and the shudders i can see in her body as she gets near to an orgasm, are very erotic and greatly turn me on, and needless to say when she reaches a climax and her body convulses in a shattering orgasm, i am immensely pleasured and entertained. but sometimes a girl's mind is not tuned in and then she doesn't get so aroused and so i discontinue my efforts. i can usually spot the fakers and don't continue on with them very long. so with a girl who is into enjoying oral sex, this can go on for some time, maybe 10 to 15 minutes or longer, depending on the girl. maybe after a while, we'll switch roles and she will begin giving me oral sex (bbbj) and i try to make this last as long as i can. usually, unless the girl gets me in just the right way with the right speed, i can outlast any of them and will not be in danger of cumming before the girl says her mouth hurts and she wants to do something else. this too can go on for a nice little whiile, maybe 15 minutes even, depending on the girl. at this point we are usually over the half hour mark and into the next half hour. at some point she wants to stop blowing me, and i usually get her up on top of me cowgirl style so i can allow her to seat herself comfortably on my dick and ride me for a while which is a great turn on as i get to see the sexiness of her body and shape as she fucks me, and i can see the expressions on her face, and any smiles and her signs of arousal that inspire me. maybe then i turn her around for some reverse cowgirl, and a particular version of it which one girl taught me (where the girl is actually on all fours doggie position between your legs facing toward your feet as you lie on your back with your knees up, and she hooks her legs under your legs and backs up until she's able to sit on your dick. this position is of course very easy for you since you are lying on your back, and it is easy for the girl since she is on all fours rocking forward and back, up and down on your dick, giving you an awesome view of your penetration into her nubile pussy, and since she is not doing calisthenics she will not get tired and can continue this for quite some time. i find it easy to control myself in this position and can prevent myself from getting too aroused and cumming. then after a while, one can switch over to the man being on top missionary for a while until tired of it, flip her around for doggie while you are standing, which is another less stress position than a man can continue for quite a while, and etc. etc. before you know it an hour or even an hour and a half has passed, and you have controlled yourself and the positions and the rhythm and speed of the fucking so that you have not fun yet and with your eye on the clock, you increase the pace and fuck her brains out until you cum just about almost on the mark of your session period.

it's so much more satisfying when you are able to enjoy licking and kissing and fucking a young girl's beautiful body for a long and quite memorable time. to go into a session and just fuck like the blazes until you cum inside 15 minutes of the session, is wasting the opportunity of that sperm load, which you could have used in a more long and drawn out sex session. is the point to get off in as quick a time as possible to spend as little as possible? not for me. having traveled quite a distance to put myself into an fkk club, and into a sex session room with a beautiful young girl, my purpose is to enjoy as many minutes of sexual involvement as i can with each girl. and to recharge in between, and do such sessions with as many girls as i can manage each night at the fkk.

but the dynamics inside of an fkk are different than in kiev. my experience has been that because there are sexy naked women all over you all the time in an fkk, that you get aroused to do more sex there. in kiev, i always end up doing much less because after each girl leaves, i will have to go and get another girl. she is not already standing in front of me naked and playing with my dick until i agree to have sex with her like at an fkk. so in between the time i finish with the first girl in kiev and contemplate the next girl, something else usually comes to mind instead, like sleeping or eating or whatever.

in kiev, i would be happy to be with one very beautiful girl every night of my visit and have her for 1. 5 to 2 hours of sexual activity, and then have another hot girl during the daytime for similar. i would like to sleep alone. but i would also like the pretty girl i had sex with to hang around with me when i'm not sleeping, so i can cuddle with her, bathe with her, lick her pussy more, make out with her, maybe fuck her again if i get turned on from the foregoing, go do outdoors stuff with her or whatever, if it can be arranged at a low and reasonable price for companionship time. and the point was that it is possible with a package deal price for long term companionship multiple hours dates.

lj

Try the clubs, they are full of WG, so you get the P2P you want. Caribbean, Arena, Sky Club, Vodka Bar. I stay away from strip clubs, you get fucked but you don't get laid.

Mamba also provided me with some average and some very good material, including non-pros looking for somebody who can fuck them good. Others need a little help with their finances. Ukrainian men do not care to give their girls good sex. UA girls are sex starved. Guys never go down on them and don't care if they cum.

Is the River Palace closed.

Thanks

[QUOTE=The Stuntdick; 1295336]Is the River Palace closed.

Thanks[/QUOTE].

The River.

Open 24/7. It never closes.

What time were you thinking of Cumming?

[blue][Message to Admin deleted][/blue]

[b][u]EDITOR's NOTE[/u][/b]: [blue]This report was edited to remove a message directed to [u]the Forum Admin[/u].

The open Forum is not the appropriate venue to contact the Forum Administration regarding individual questions, complaints or comments about the administration of the Forum. Instead, please use the [u]Contact Us[/u] link at the bottom of this page to send me an email voicing your complaints about the administration of the Forum, and I will respond as quickly as possible. [i]Thanks![/i][/blue]

I'm thinking about finally making to Kiev in August from 5th-12th. After the Euro cup is finished.

I will start the long process of going through the old threads to gather information but I would appreciate if anybody could give a quick answer to.

1) The best apartment / flat rental which is safe, centrally located and has free WiFi.

2) A attractive female translator / guide. I'm going solo and don't want to waste time.

If any long term mongers are in town and would like to meet up for a beer that would be great.

My PM should be working in the soon.

Cheers.

PY

[QUOTE=The Stuntdick; 1295336]Is the River Palace closed?

Thanks[/QUOTE]Yes, since summer 2010.

I was not complaining about the admin but never mind.

And now I forgot all the other important shit in that post. But somehow other members must have read it since I got one PM and one email on the topic. I am puzzled. Did someone rat me out? Someone here that hates Barba and want him silenced? Intriguing mystery.

Lately I have been lucky with girls from social sites. I have normal correspondence with really pretty girls. Jerk off material stunners even. It makes such a difference to take one step away from the drooling P4P seeking sex depraved pocket wanker personality, and be just a fun guy looking for some "excitement and friendly people to hang out with" (yea right). One girl was talking today about how she met a young football fan and ended up kissing him but nothing "serious" would ever happen between them anyway since he is now gone. She is eager to meet and show me her favorite beach. She mentioned that she loves sex and would never ruin that with doing it for money. Just a sexually liberated girl that wants some fun.

I am also puzzled about this streak of luck lately with the girls from the various sites. Another sweet and very pretty girl has clearly a history of being quite an exclusive travel companion since she is posing on pictures that indicates that she f*cked herself all the way to Egypt and onto an expensive boat. Really happy and friendly person in her communication and she has a "normal job" as well. Maybe she would be a good talent to invite to Dubai. I think I got to meet her in July. I will get back on that topic and maybe even post some juicy details on this mystery girl. She seems to be girlfriend material but her pictures indicates I would need to share her. As long as she shares her friends, that is totally fine with me.

Yellowpaul, do you intend to stick your t-rex in the guide or is it a real guide you need? Let me suggest you look for an apartment around Khreschatyk on for example [url]http://kievapts.com/.[/url]

AColonizer, like your comparison with the rubber doll. You are a strange bird but you are telling the truth sometimes. These mentally corrupt rubber dolls do not deserve our money.

Barba

I see that this site has really started cleaning itself up. The search criteria now exclude the 'looking for sex for money' category. Is the the beginning of the end?

[QUOTE=Barba;1295841]I am also puzzled about this streak of luck lately with the girls from the various sites. Another sweet and very pretty girl has clearly a history of being quite an exclusive travel companion since she is posing on pictures that indicates that she f*cked herself all the way to Egypt and onto an expensive boat. Really happy and friendly person in her communication and she has a "normal job" as well. Maybe she would be a good talent to invite to Dubai. I think I got to meet her in July.[/QUOTE]I have dabbled with inviting girls to join me on trips, but never made it happen yet. Just haven't got the stars to align.

But I now have a couple of good prospects lined up, one I have met but not fucked, and the others I have talked to enough that I believe it could happen with the right opportunity. By that I mean they are not scammers and are sufficiently motivated to meet an unknown but seemingly nice guy for travel sex.

But I have learned a few things along the way. Obviously scammers are the biggest hazard. "I would love to come with you but I need money for a visa... I can only get a Schengen visa by paying $200 at the Polish Embassy...." etc.

So I only talk to girls on the basis that they get (or preferably already have) their visa. Some will advertise themselves like that way, because they know it is a big barrier. The uncertainty alone is not worth the hassle with an un-visa-ed girl.

But the bigger problem is the "exclusive travel companion" type like you mentioned. Once I see photos of them on a yacht or on a private jet or in the Maldives, or even saying "5* hotel" on their profile, I run. They are already spoiled for a guy like me. If they have hung out with Mr. Millions and his buddies on a boat in the Mediterranean, then they have a network of willing sponsors who are in luxury leagues, and are not going to be content with just sight-seeing around Paris from a modest but charming hotel. Like Russian girls in London, they measure success by how much they can make you spend on them.

I invited a couple of Russian girls to join me skiing in Switzerland or France. The first one wanted to know which resort we would go to and had some pretty strong views on which were the most "elitny". I wanted to avoid those like the plague. I wanted to ski, have fondue dinners and fuck. I did not care about a place with great clubs and shopping. But obviously she did. Probably didn't even ski. The other one, when I asked her what an economical fare from her city to Geneva would be, responded "If you are concerned about being economical, then I think neither you nor I will have a very good time." Well, I am glad she flagged that and was direct about it, because she was right.

Of course what you really want to do (or at least what I want) is to find a girl that has not yet travelled outside of EE. Or at least not to your particular exotic destination, so this is a big treat for them. I think it is Prosal who has so much success with this. Just sits there in Paris and has the dyevs come to him. I think they usually pay their own way, but presumably he wines and dines them in the Eternal City. But he has an unfair advantage living in Paris and single. (Miserable bastard I hate him!) That doesn't work so well in the hick colonial city I live in. It is not exactly a chick magnet and the travel costs make it impractical for most. And for European business travel, I usually have a pretty narrow window to work with. Obviously mongers who live in Europe or travel to EE a lot more frequently than I do have a much easier time making the travel companion thing work for them.

The other thing I discovered is that the Mamba "Fellow Traveller" feature is not very useful. As an experiment I put up a very attractive offer (desirable Mediterranean destination, flexible timing, travel costs) and got no useful responses. Now I did not proactively contact girls who had indicated in their profile an interest in travelling there, which probably would have yielded more results, but I wanted to see if they would contact me and the answer was no. Irish Lad said something like this also, thought Mamba travel profiles were a waste of time, and he would know. It probably makes more sense to just contact girls whose profiles you like and make the offer when you have established a rapport. But don't lead with it. I suppose that has the advantage of avoiding being preyed on my scammers and travel princesses.

Anyway, I would be interested in hearing about other people's (more successful) experience with travel companions.

[QUOTE=The Stuntdick;1295336]Is the River Palace closed.[/QUOTE]No, it is open and hopping. People who tell you otherwise are just trying to keep it to themselves. Any cab driver can take you there.

Between River Palace and Rio you can enjoy the very best Kiev has to offer without even trying! No need to look any further. Enjoy.

[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel; 1296161]No, it is open and hopping. People who tell you otherwise are just trying to keep it to themselves. Any cab driver can take you there.

Between River Palace and Rio you can enjoy the very best Kiev has to offer without even trying! No need to look any further. Enjoy.[/QUOTE]But many people insist that River Palace is closed and it was fantastic and now they have to settle for Rio or put more effort into it.

Unlike Rio, River Palace had few detractors, is it really open contrary to what many people insist or was it just closed for a while?

[QUOTE=Delta Indigo;1296167]But many people insist that River Palace is closed[/QUOTE]Nope! I was there last night. I usually do a twofer between RP and Rio. Mongering just does not get any better than this combo.

[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel;1296158]But the bigger problem is the "exclusive travel companion" type like you mentioned. Once I see photos of them on a yacht or on a private jet or in the Maldives, or even saying "5* hotel" on their profile, I run. They are already spoiled for a guy like me. If they have hung out with Mr. Millions and his buddies on a boat in the Mediterranean, then they have a network of willing sponsors who are in luxury leagues, and are not going to be content with just sight-seeing around Paris from a modest but charming hotel. Like Russian girls in London, they measure success by how much they can make you spend on them.[/QUOTE]These are sharp words. If a girl is no longer impressionable, just move on. Otherwise you will have your balls busted in the wrong way.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1296190]Nope! I was there last night. I usually do a twofer between RP and Rio. Mongering just does not get any better than this combo.[/QUOTE]Good joke! I already see some "pilgrim" booking a flight to Kiev to go there. BTW River Palace was closed down and the boat towed away around 2 years ago.

Guys has anyone ever tried this out? [url]http://kievapts.com/.[/url] I want to rent an apartment and I don't want it to go to a scam. Are they legit?

Yes, Kievapts is legit. I have used it before. Ask them where their office is. I found that it is better when you can walk from their office to your apt, just in case something goes wrong. Several of these places have their offices in the centre, which works fine.

About travel companions, try [url]www.travelgirls.com[/url], which has thousands of willing travel partners. Many explicitly state that they are not escorts but really, who are they fooling?

Video chatting would be essential, of course, before agreeing to anything.

In most cases, you would have to fly them in, but if you live in a top destination, where hotels cost an arm and a leg, they might be willing to pay their own costs. This might work if they are already planning to be in the area.

As usual, you have to avoid the ones who are going to measure their fun by how much they make you spend on them. You want the ones who realize every night they spend with you they are actually saving 100-400 dollars, depending on where you live.

[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel;1296158]Anyway, I would be interested in hearing about other people's (more successful) experience with travel companions.[/QUOTE]IMO this is an option only with a girl you have built through long chats, sms, booty calls, ect, a good intellectual and emotional harmony with. In the other cases, it's too aleatoric and risky.

Hi Guys. Great posts by the way and some great pictures also. I am an English guy just arrived in Kiev for the match and am intrigued to know where the best place is to pick up a girl (I know this has been discussed a million times before). Would be nice to not have to pick up a working girl so to speak but if thats all there is then fine. Can you please pm me with possible ladies, places and any pointers as to how to be succesful this evening?

Thanks in advance

[QUOTE=Castonthis; 1296249]Guys has anyone ever tried this out?

[url]http://kievapts.com/.[/url]

I want to rent an apartment and I don't want it to go to a scam. Are they legit?[/QUOTE]I was in Ukraine 2 months ago. I didn't try this site but I booked 2 different ones on dobovo. You'll find out that several companies work together on providing the same apartments. I have to say I impressed with the apartments, though I was charged one night for reducing my stay by 2 nights (unlike in hotels where they don't charge you if you leave early). If you want specifics on the 2 apartments I stayed in I can help you with that.

Hope that helps.

[QUOTE=Castonthis; 1296249]Guys has anyone ever tried this out?

[url]http://kievapts.com/.[/url]

I want to rent an apartment and I don't want it to go to a scam. Are they legit?[/QUOTE]Yes I have. They are legit and will fill your fridge with food for just a few dollars (plus the cost of what you order).

Barba

Good points from many contributors.

Gentleman Travel, the visa issue is clearly a deal breaker. Thank you for pointing out that this should be a parameter in the search. I sent money many years ago to some crying pinays with a dying uncle, a house on fire and a dead water buffalo and will never do that mistake again.

I have invited girls (non EE) to various destinations around the globe but these where all normal, underpaid girls that wanted an adventure. Non where of this more professional type. Saw one guy in Thailand that had three Russian speaking SUPER HOT girls by his side. Smoking and being bitchy, so not my type of girls but never the less he was probably fucking models every day that vacation. Totally see your point with the spoiled luxury hoes. I will meet this luxury yacht girl over a lunch and see what it amounts to.

In the past I met girls who fucked me for next nothing, even if they had been living in luxury just some months ago. As one said;"I have a very irregular income". If I ever do take one to Dubai, it will be someone that will be entertained and satisfied by what relative luxury I can or want to offer. One of the girls I met in Kharkiv is a clear candidate. She never left EE and will for sure f*ck me ever morning, noon and evening in gratitude. She will bore me after three days, so a weekend trip is perfect.

I registered with [url]www.travelgirls.com[/url] Once, but got scam vibes. Maybe the site just needs to be worked properly. Will try it again.

Barba

I visited this strip club at saksaganskogo street yesterday:

[url]http://kiev.restoranchik.com.ua/place/striptiz-klub-xxi-vek-kiev-saksaganskogo-51.html[/url]

Prices are high, it is near a rip-off. 200 Grivna Entrance. 400 Grivna for a Private Dance which last 5 or 6 minutes. A Drink comes 100 Grivna.

Take out for a girl there is 300 $ for three hours.

I have a friend that would like to visit me in the US. Does anybody know what basic criteria the US consulate will use for a college aged single traveler. How can I stack the deck to increase the odds of acceptance? She just finished school, has no money, and no meaningful employment.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1296818]I have a friend that would like to visit me in the US. Does anybody know what basic criteria the US consulate will use for a college aged single traveler. How can I stack the deck to increase the odds of acceptance? She just finished school, has no money, and no meaningful employment.[/QUOTE]Zero chance. Next question.

[QUOTE=Limarian;1296146]I see that this site has really started cleaning itself up. The search criteria now exclude the 'looking for sex for money' category. Is the the beginning of the end?[/QUOTE]Looking "For Fun" has replaced it.

Girls looking for men in the 18-60 age range are pros or semi pros.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D; 1296836]Looking "For Fun" has replaced it.

Girls looking for men in the 18-60 age range are pros or semi pros.[/QUOTE]This little piece of intel deserves a bigger announcement considering how much mamba. Ru is used by the monger community to find good inexpensive p4p in Kiev.

There may be a connection to the fact that many of the profiles on mamba that I tried earlier this year linked me to a site on a parallel website called "Sexmamba", which unfortunately had a confirmation procedure that involved sending SMS to the site only from certain European telephone exchanges, and I never was able to complete registration while I was in the USA, so I got no farther with it. I assumed it was some sort of effort to create a site which was all about p4p only for the mamba advertisers who were pro or semi pro. It may have been a preliminary step to the clean up of the mamba site and the change in the search criteria which I also noted in a prior post.

Reports from those of you using the mamba site to get p4p girls over to your apartment, and any pointers you discover in the process, will be helpful.

Happy mongering.

LJ

[QUOTE=Reiner Otto;1295071][url]http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/euro-2012-blog-prostitutes-disappointed-with-foo-2.html#.T-DMCPX4WSp[/url][/QUOTE]FEMEN and Ukrainian girls in general have way too high of an opinion of themselves. They think foreign men are just flocking to Ukraine to be with the world's most perfect girls.

P4p sex in Ukraine is about on par with any country I've been to. Semi pros in my location in the US are on par with what I experience in Kiev.

The difference between Ukraine / Russian girls and Western girls. 5-10 kilos, baggy jeans and athletic shoes.

Get over yourselves girls.

Thanks for many good posts. I've gone through the posts with interest.

Anyone that has any good tips for daytime activities? Looked through Mamba, but it seams like a lot of fake profiles.

Rio looks like a winner at night time, but where to catch up with the girls during daytime?

Planning a trip to Kiev in end of July.

[quote=norwegian76; 1296869]thanks for many good posts. i've gone through the posts with interest.

anyone that has any good tips for daytime activities? looked through mamba, but it seams like a lot of fake profiles.

rio looks like a winner at night time, but where to catch up with the girls during daytime?

planning a trip to kiev in end of july.[/quote]you can't go wrong by reading farther back in the thread. you can click on my username and get a link to my prior posts. i have laid out the way to go about planning a p4p mongering trip to kiev in detailed posts on numerous occasions, discussing the pro's and cons of the various options. there are good posts with solid usable information by many others too. unfortunately there are also a number of argumentative members whose posts are of little value to someone trying to plan a trip. you will have to learn to recognize those members whose reports have some value to you in planning versus those that are just a distraction from that purpose. but overall you will benefit by reading the thread from at least last march 2011.

that being said, your comment regarding using mamba. ru indicates you haven't come across even my quite recent report about the "correct reason for using mamba". i recommend that post for you to read. it will explain why despite the many fake pictures on mamba, it is still an effective tool to finding inexpensive and good looking girls for p4p, as long as you keep trying long enough and order girls a sufficient number of times. eventually you are going to meet a girl who is good enough.

(note: there are a few members on this thread who have claimed that in their experience most of the mamba profile pictures are true. these members include recent reports by barba and even roll buzz. these claims that mamba has mostly true pictures clearly contradict the many other prior reports you will find in this kiev thread over the last year reporting that the mamba pictures turned out to be fakes for the most part and that girls who looked nothing like the mamba profile pics were showing up for the appointments made. there are so many reports of this nature in the past year on this thread of actual experience reports indicating the mamba profile pics were fakes for the most part that i took it for granted that everyone knew this, and was actually surprised when reading claims by barba and afterward roll buzz to the contrary. unfortunately, it was not possible to engage in lucid communication with barba to figure out why there should be such a contradiction in reported experience on this thread, and what was he actually talking about, because he took such personal offense to the mere audacity of being contradicted by me and became so enraged at this, that he had the equivalent of a child's temper-tantrum right here on the thread, replete with name calling and acting out, so that no rational communication was possible.

however, i believe i have figured out the solution by myself and where the "misunderstanding" really was. you see, mamba. ru is a website on which many different types of girls have placed profiles. these mamba profiles include professional working girls, as well as semi-pros looking to make needed supplemental cash or find "sponsors" to pay for some of their expenses, as well as escort agencies, and girl apartments. the foregoing i will call the "mamba p4p girls". in the past, these mamba p4p girls included phrases in their profiles that openly stated "offer sex for money", or more tactful perhaps "looking for a sponsor", or even less obvious "looking for a one night stand". the responses one usually received to inquiries sent to such p4p girls which stated innocuously something like,"you are very pretty. i would love to meet you. if you are interested, please send me your phone number and your conditions," would invariably be right to the point, and state something like the rates for certain sexual services. and you could follow up for additional information. in communicating with such girls on mamba it became very clear, very quickly that you were dealing with a p4p date, and she would show up to your apartment expecting the fee stated. these are p4p profiles, many of them inserted on mamba by agencies or girl apartments. typically, after a short while the profile itself got deleted. the same girl / agency opened other profiles. many girls or agencies inserted simultaneous multiple profiles. this became obvious when in back and forth communications information sent to one girl about my plans became known by other girls to whom i had not sent it. now the foregoing relates to p4p girls, which was the exact type of girls i was seeking on a short stay in kiev. i was not looking to date a girl for a couple of dates and "maybe" get some sex. i wanted to find guaranteed immediate sex, and for that one seeks out p4p working girls. and there were plenty of wg's plying their trade on mamba. ru. about these mamba p4p girls it was stated in the reports time and time again, beware, they are using fake pics and bait and switch tactics, but with persistence and trying enough girls you can get a decent enough looking girl or maybe even better.

but, aside from p4p girls, there are also many other regular girls on mamba using it as a social website and looking for friendships and relationships as well as travel companions. these are the "mamba regular girls". when i was using mamba to find p4p girls i deliberately ignored and tried to weed out these regular girls looking for love and marriage and friendship and long term dating. i was not interested in friendship dating for the three nights i would be in kiev. i was looking for a girl who would definitely get down to serious business that very night that i met her for the first time. so these regular girls advertising on mamba were not of interest to me during a short term visit to kiev. quite obviously a regular girl looking to find a nice man to date for a real relationship is much less likely to use a fake picture. what would be the point? as soon as the first date happened and the parties met, the game would be up, and she would have to answer for her deceptive actions-not a good way to begin any real relationship. further to authenticate herself, and to see your authentication, she would more readily agree to exchange further pictures and to skype and other such ways of seeing each other.

thus, the statements of barba and roll buzz of finding mostly girls who used true pics can make sense if they were dealing with regular girls on mamba. ru, and not with respect to the p4p girls who mostly use fake pics. there was probably no real argument. the answer to the contradiction in the reporting is that we were talking about different things (regular girls versus p4p girls). unfortunately, the distinction wasn't perceived at first, and was submerged in the temper tantrum.)

the p4p girl or agency who has used a fake picture of a girl far more beautiful than herself to attract you to call and invite her to your apartment for paid sex, has no incentive to send you other pictures of herself that expose the lie and show her less attractive self. instead, she and / or the escort agency is depending on the premise of "bait and switch" which hopes that the customer is horny enough to keep the girl sent even though she's not the beauty in the profile picture, because the girl who actually did come is good enough in your eyes. sometimes she isn't and gets sent back. sometimes she is and you keep her.

daytime activities:

because of the foregoing, even though it is frustrating to have to order p4p girls to your apartment and wait for them when they come late, and then send them away if they don't look good enough, chasing mamba p4p girls is a good daytime activity, and you may be lucky and get a good girl showing up sooner rather than later.

in addition, you may wish to try to go after mamba regular girls, and try the method i described in earlier posts, of speed dating four or five girls each afternoon at bars and cages you have preselected around the downtown area, then you can narrow down your search to the girls who were most promising. however, this is regular dating, and will need some time to bear fruit in terms of sexual experiences. but it's a good daytime activity.

trying to hit on girls in shops and malls is a favorite daytime activity of many mongers. asking for help with something or asking some other questions is the easiest non threatening way to begin a conversation, and if you sense a good vibe, invite for coffee or a drink later.

going to girl apartments is another good daytime activity. you can ask various taxi drivers if they know and can take you to various girl apartments downtown. there are also shills you may bump into when you walk around downtown who will directvyou to where a girl apartment is.

you need more to do? sleeping. sleeping is a very good daytime activity to do, especially if you plan to be a vampire at night and need tge strength to prey upon the young beauties of kiev all night long. lol.

as far as nighttime, although rio has been a favorite of mine, it is relatively highly priced at $300/3hours of take out plus the incidental costs of a visit to the club. there is also the newly opened sister club mandarin, as well as slightly higher priced dolls strip club. but just so you should know, it has been reported here on this thread that there is a lot of really good action going on in the regular nightclubs in kiev with working girls in the nightclubs who look as good as the best of the hotties in the strip clubs, and the good news is that the prices for these extremely hot wg's in the nightclubs are reported to have come down to prices like $200/2 hours or less, which is significantly lower than the prices in the strip clubs. so if cost is a consideration for you, it would pay to check out the situation in the regular nightclubs mentioned in this thread not too far back and frequently, because you may be able to get a real hottie for much less cost than in the strip club. you will have to judge which is an easier and more efficient environment to operate in, but the reports i have read about the cost differential is significant enough to warrant that you check out the clubs first to see what's available, in what quantity and concentration, and in what quality and cost level.

do your research and reading of the thread, prepare mamba. ru contacts in advance of coming, and when you do visit, please remember to post your observations and experiences which are very helpful.

lj

I visited the small Strip-Club TIXI OMUT vesterday:

[url]http://www.afisha.ru/kiev/club/16667[/url]

It is in Harkovski Raion, left bank of Kiev. Nice Place and moderate prices (Entrance 100 Grivna, PrivateDance 200 Grivna).

5 Girls there yesterday, all pretty with a friendly behaviour, not trying to squeeze drinks from you.

Unfortunately there is no take out, so you just get appetite there.

[QUOTE=Norwegian76; 1296869]Thanks for many good posts. I've gone through the posts with interest.

Anyone that has any good tips for daytime activities? Looked through Mamba, but it seams like a lot of fake profiles.

Rio looks like a winner at night time, but where to catch up with the girls during daytime?

Planning a trip to Kiev in end of July.[/QUOTE]Is it a trend a pattern or what, when its always the case with a lot of (First Time Posters) who come up with the Tip about" Rio "along similar lines to (Rio looks Like a Winner at Night Time).

[QUOTE=Duesentrieb; 1297043]I visited the small Strip-Club TIXI OMUT vesterday:

[url]http://www.afisha.ru/kiev/club/16667[/url]

It is in Harkovski Raion, left bank of Kiev. Nice Place and moderate prices (Entrance 100 Grivna, PrivateDance 200 Grivna).

5 Girls there yesterday, all pretty with a friendly behaviour, not trying to squeeze drinks from you.

Unfortunately there is no take out, so you just get appetite there.[/QUOTE].

Hi Duestrieb. I am glad to see that you still go back and check out Tixi Omut Club.

You may recall that it was you who first mentioned this club way back in 2009, and following your tip, I went there and posted on it at the time.

Entrance now 100 UAH? Then it has gone up from 30 UAH.

There were a couple of stunners there, but they didn't do take out when I asked one girl.

Didn't you mention that there was some action upstairs?

But with a Sauna next door, I am sure there is more to this club than what seems to be to someone who is not a regular. It looks like a place for locals, not on the tourist trail.

Very good location on the river and with a great Seafood Restaurant next door with live music on weekends (Xata Rabata ). A great place to take a date there and to interact with other boozed up female dancing diners.

So. Interesting read this thread I have to admit. My friend is living with a girl from Ukraine and will spend all of August there. He asked if I would like come visit. How do you experienced visitors to Kiev think early or late August is in Kiev? Are the students back for university? I will be looking for something casual, semi-pros or normal dates.

[QUOTE=Qubei;1297124]So. Interesting read this thread I have to admit. My friend is living with a girl from Ukraine and will spend all of August there. He asked if I would like come visit. How do you experienced visitors to Kiev think early or late August is in Kiev? Are the students back for university? I will be looking for something casual, semi-pros or normal dates.[/QUOTE].

Wait till the first 2 weeks in September.

There is normally a free concert at Independence square.

A great time to hook up.

Everyone is back from their holidays and eager to show off their Tan

[QUOTE=Norwegian76; 1296869]Thanks for many good posts. I've gone through the posts with interest.

Anyone that has any good tips for daytime activities? Looked through Mamba, but it seams like a lot of fake profiles.

Rio looks like a winner at night time, but where to catch up with the girls during daytime?

Planning a trip to Kiev in end of July.[/QUOTE]Now you can spend sometime reading (The Latest Volume Of Kiev's Mystery Rio and Sex uncovered)

Hi Jojosun, as you know, it is always interesting to visit the scene of the crime again.

Yes, the Entrance there is now 100 UAH, well it is Kiev.

Their "no take out policy" seems to be quite strict, but it is true that there is a Sauna in the same house.

For locals, who have the money, the language skills and the connections there are maybe more offers than a short "private dance" but for us, the average ISG-traveller, I do not see any possibilities there.

[quote=jojosun;1297133]now you can spend sometime reading (the latest volume of kiev's mystery rio and sex uncovered)[/quote]yea, the pattern of one newbie a week asking about, or mentioning,"the club" is quite clear. any club that constantly advertise themselves that much here are a bit suspicious in my opinion. what a sad person it would be to post questions to himself about that club. i sure hope this is not the case.

liljoey a friend of mine told me you call me a name caller and child in a recent post. i opened the post and read a few lines and he was naturally correct. i disagree to what happened. liljoey, please refrain from calling me anything her or in reality if we meet. we share at least one friend so we might face each other sooner or later. i do not see any point in reading your posts. you might pick a few points with some reader here, but is it really not just pointless to go on and re-digest the opinions on these pictures on mamba, liljoey? you say most are fake, i say many are real. does it matter who is right? people will form their own opinion. just forget about barba and go on with your life, and i will do the same. and then we can say hi and share a drink if we ever meet in your favorite club. we have the right to consider each-others posts totally and utterly pointless. i exercise that right with your posts. over and out.

with regards to the girls advertising travel companions on mamba i was chatting with two girls today when i pretended to work. one opened up for her august plans being undefined and asked me if i had any plans. that is the yacht girl i wrote about. she is fishing for a trip. no talk about money. her regular job seems good so maybe she is not as professional as i suspected. i will meet her next week and then we will see what kind of girl she is. the other is clearly a more or less professional travel companion, with exclusive habits. i think i will ditch her, even though she would make the pope kick his foot through the plexi glass car.

i have followed cd:s advice that i got many months ago and have a list of some 15 confirmed girls in kiev and kharkiv and about 5 suspected saloons / brokers. all from mamba and vk. in addition i have at least 10 conformed contacts shared with me by members and friends here (thank you once again). and then i have 2 girls i would like to see again from previous trip, one being the slim young photo model blonde with funny clothes i posted a pic of here. i elegantly wrapped up the question if i could fuck her in a pm on mamba and she confirmed that barba is "interesting" and that we will spend time now when we are not strangers. my "girlfriend" that wants to stay with me because her dorm / hostel is locked for summer break. next week will call for some serious juggling and speed dating. i need a horny wing man (you know who you are if you see this so pm me if you can join me).

a tip i got from a girl that send me a message or two every other day day: register a vk profile based on say kiev. i was told that many girls will never search for men outside ukraine so by having a "local" profile but with correct information about your location, you will be found by more females. i am yet to evaluate this, but the girl seems initiated and it sounds reasonable. please share the outcome if you try this approach.

barba

[QUOTE=Qubei;1297124]So. Interesting read this thread I have to admit. My friend is living with a girl from Ukraine and will spend all of August there. He asked if I would like come visit. How do you experienced visitors to Kiev think early or late August is in Kiev? Are the students back for university? I will be looking for something casual, semi-pros or normal dates.[/QUOTE]I personally believe September is the best month of the year to pick up girls.

I was at the disputed RIO Club yesterday (not for the first time). It was very crowded (a lot of foreigners, Euro visitors mainly).

Everyone has a right to his own opinion- and in my point of view at RIO the atmosphere is to cool and the girls act to snobby.

On the other hand the place is good organized, you get your drinks fast and the staff is friendly.

So it is neither a tourist-trap nor a heaven for sex tourists- it is just a big strip-club in the capital of Ukraine.

You can have a good time there or you can just waste your money. It's up to you.

Looks like I will be going to Kiev on August. And will be staying there till late August. So its not a good time to go? That is a shame. I will be looking to score with several freebies and escorts from strip clubs. I hope all turns out well.

[QUOTE=Jojosun; 1295438].

The River.

Open 24/7. It never closes.

What time were you thinking of Cumming?[/QUOTE]We will be there August 3 to 10th. Looking to have some fun.

[QUOTE=Castonthis;1297528]Looks like I will be going to Kiev on August. And will be staying there till late August. So its not a good time to go? That is a shame. I will be looking to score with several freebies and escorts from strip clubs. I hope all turns out well.[/QUOTE]Don't worry too much about it, since your trip dates are already fixed. What Jojosun wrote about September being a better time, as the students have returned, is correct. Neverthess, even though there is less young pussy available in August, there is still enough to have a good time. You'll just have to work a little harder. For example, I was in Kiev for the last weekend of August and beginning of September last year, and noted that there weren't as many hotties to choose from in the Rio line up, as there had been during previous visits. But I found some hotties that were fun to be with nevertheless. I'm sure the same is true of the other venues in Kiev such as the regular nightclubs, or the websites, like mamba. Ru or others. There may be less, but there will be enough, in all likelihood. So don't fret, do it all, have fun, and let us here about your exploits here on the thread.

LJ

[QUOTE=The Stuntdick;1297538]We will be there August 3 to 10th. Looking to have some fun.[/QUOTE]Keep looking and you will find it.

[QUOTE=Duesentrieb; 1297418]I was at the disputed RIO Club yesterday (not for the first time). It was very crowded (a lot of foreigners, Euro visitors mainly).

Everyone has a right to his own opinion- and in my point of view at RIO the atmosphere is to cool and the girls act to snobby.

On the other hand the place is good organized, you get your drinks fast and the staff is friendly.

So it is neither a tourist-trap nor a heaven for sex tourists- it is just a big strip-club in the capital of Ukraine.

You can have a good time there or you can just waste your money. It's up to you.[/QUOTE]Rio in the best way of being Summed Up.

" neither a tourist-trap nor a heaven for sex tourists- it is just a big strip-club in the capital of Ukraine.".

With some options of take out at US$300 plus for 3 hours.

Its Up To You.

[QUOTE=El Cubanito;1284584]I will find out soon enough what is the story in ukraine. I will my experience in Kiev and Odessa. I will post my report by June 12 or 14.[/QUOTE]What happened to this guy? He asks a million questions and doesn't offer the courtesy of a report. I am going to send him a nasty pm with a piece of my mind.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1297968]What happened to this guy? He asks a million questions and doesn't offer the courtesy of a report. I am going to send him a nasty pm with a piece of my mind.[/QUOTE].

CN. Give him a break. Another 4 weeks maybe and Then.

[QUOTE=Barba; 1297299]Y.

A tip I got from a girl that send me a message or two every other day day: register a VK profile based on say Kiev. I was told that many girls will never search for men outside Ukraine so by having a "local" profile but with correct information about your location, you will be found by more females. I am yet to evaluate this, but the girl seems initiated and it sounds reasonable. Please share the outcome if you try this approach.

Barba[/QUOTE]Can you give me the link to that VK site? I use Mamba and got myself some very good pussy from pro, semi-pro and just 'civilians' looking for a good fuck. Ukrainian men either don't like to, don't care to satisfy their women or just don't know how to. It is great for us!

I will be there in July. Anyone wanting to hunt together, or have a drink and compare notes, let me know.

Barba, I agree with you regarding the shill for the 'club'. It never goes away.

[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel; 1296161]No, it is open and hopping. People who tell you otherwise are just trying to keep it to themselves. Any cab driver can take you there.

Between River Palace and Rio you can enjoy the very best Kiev has to offer without even trying! No need to look any further. Enjoy.[/QUOTE]Where is River Palace now please? I used to enjoy that place a lot! Even the restaurant!

I understand they towed the boat somewhere else and closed it. Where is it please?

Hi Guys,

Where is the best place to meet young girls at day time in Kiev?

Cafee or shopping mall?

Thanks.

Naykan

[QUOTE=PedroToronja; 1297999]Where is River Palace now please? I used to enjoy that place a lot! Even the restaurant!

I understand they towed the boat somewhere else and closed it. Where is it please?[/QUOTE]The road got reconstructed (new overpass) so they moved it up stream to the harbor. Thats north of the funicular, a well known landmark. You got to look a bit, since they where not allowed to put up advertizement of any kind.

H.

[QUOTE=Naykan; 1298152]Hi Guys,

Where is the best place to meet young girls at day time in Kiev?

Cafee or shopping mall?

Thanks.

Naykan[/QUOTE]Just walk the streets for girls that look like they have no where to go. If I catch a girl making eye contact, I quickly approach and smell her. If they smell of too much perfume and as if they have not showered for a few days, than I know its going to be my lucky day. Be sure to give a strong "zdrastvootye" upon introduction. You will know immediately if she's game. If you don't have basic language skills, just forget it. No joke about smelling them. At the end of my last trip, I came to realize that you can find lost souls walking the streets of Kiev and I am not referring to street walkers.

McDonalds is worth a look. Keep your eyes open for single girls that don't seem to be part of a clique. They have a unique look. That look a young person has when they belong to nothing and don't know what to do. The Korovan shopping mall is good too but its not in city center.

[QUOTE=Raffzahn; 1298251]The road got reconstructed (new overpass) so they moved it up stream to the harbor. Thats north of the funicular, a well known landmark. You got to look a bit, since they where not allowed to put up advertizement of any kind.

H.[/QUOTE]Or Ask Rod Stewart, he would know.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1v60FITAfY.[/url]

Stay Tuned and you will find her.

Bless Her, And Bless All The Girls Who Sailed With Her.

Yeah Been on Board And Still Got The T Shirt.

The girls are the hottest. In my first month I banged 4 girls for free, didn't even buy them dinner or drinks. I meet them at bars, street, online. Doesn't matter, girls are always down to talk to me here.

All the girls wanted to have relationships which is even more awesome.

I've been to many cities in Canada, America, Rio de Janeiro, Buenos Aires, nothing compares. Thailand is still easier but it's not the same, girls are either tourist that you will never see again or asian girls that all look the same and mostly retarded.

Highly recommend. I and still there and plan on spending 6 months a year here for the rest of my life.

[QUOTE=Raffzahn; 1298251]The road got reconstructed (new overpass) so they moved it up stream to the harbor. Thats north of the funicular, a well known landmark. You got to look a bit, since they where not allowed to put up advertizement of any kind.

H.[/QUOTE]Yes, I know where the funicular is, next to the Riviera Hotel in Podol, right? So River Palace is like next to the new Fairmont hotel?

[QUOTE=PedroToronja;1297998]Can you give me the link to that VK site?[/QUOTE]Vk. Com is the URL.

I will go to Kharkov this weekend and then on to Kiev after a couple of days. Could not PM you, but feel free to drop me a line and then we can meet up and chase some punani together.

B.

[QUOTE=Naykan; 1298152]Hi Guys,

Where is the best place to meet young girls at day time in Kiev?

Cafee or shopping mall?

Thanks.

Naykan[/QUOTE]Dear Naykan,

Do you have any sort of plan or ideas on the method or actual approach you will use to initiate meeting any specific young girls you may see? I assume by the word "cafee" you mean a cafe at which you sit at a table and are served coffee or other beverages to drink and other items to eat, in other words a restaurant setting. If so, I think that it would be much easier to actually meet young girls in a shopping mall, simply because you can much more easily physically approach any girl you see to ask some sort of question, or make a remark, that can serve to initiate a conversation, whereas if you are seated at a cafe or restaurant, you are more or less limited to conversations that might be started with girls seated right next to you, or while on any line that might exist while waiting to be seated. It seems to me that a restaurant setting is very limiting on the practical aspects of how to approach any girls you might see seated at some table there. Are you willing to just walk up to a table where some girls are seated and say something to them? Your choices of what you might say to them as an opening line, that has a chance of sounding like a normal question or remark (assuming you have thought this through and you actually have the balls and the "game" to do this kind of approach to pick up girls) , seem more limited in approaching a table of women seated together, than in the setting of a shopping mall where you can just about ask anyone about anything and still not be obviously trying to pick the girl up, so that the interaction is more natural. The answer to your question depends on how you plan to approach girls you want to meet, and what you plan to say to them to initiate any conversation. How do you envision yourself doing this? Have you ever tried to pick up women in restaurants in your home town? In shopping malls in your home town? If you haven't, then I propose to you to go perform the experiment in your home town, and see which setting is easier for you to succeed in your home town. It will be much the same when you get to Kiev. Although in Kiev you will be limited to speaking to those young girls who can understand and speak the language (s) you speak, but on the other hand you will have more things to legitimately ask questions about, being a foreigner or tourist. Take this question down to the level of the actual approach you envision yourself making to the young girls you will want to meet, and you will have the answer to your question about in which location or venue is it easier to actually "meet" young girls. If your question related more to simply at which location more young girls are to be found, then I guess the answer is that there will cumulatively be more girls in a shopping mall than in any particular cafe or restaurant. Just some thoughts.

LJ

[QUOTE=Naykan; 1298152]Hi Guys,

Where is the best place to meet young girls at day time in Kiev?

Cafee or shopping mall?

Thanks.

Naykan[/QUOTE]By the way, why do you leave out the other very plausible location to meet young girls in Kiev during the daytime, which is obviously in the street, on the sidewalks like Strolling on Khreshchatyk avenue, and in the supermarkets, etc. ? These places are also good settings to meet girls, as well as cafes and shopping malls. Likewise, any good bars that have a daytime scene.

LJ

[QUOTE=Naykan; 1298152]Hi Guys,

Where is the best place to meet young girls at day time in Kiev?

Cafee or shopping mall?

Thanks.

Naykan[/QUOTE]Naykan, I looked at your prior posts and see it is mostly similar questions in various different threads on this forum. Are you going to post action reports describing your experiences on the thread? Surely you know that That's what it's all about.

LJ

Hello Guys new to the forum. Visiting Ukraine on July 5th to the 25th. I will arrive at SIP airport and ride into Yalta. I will stay in Yalta for a couple days, and move onto Odessa for a week, than Kiev for another week. All dates being flexible depending on what I find in each place to keep me around.

I would like to sign up for mamba, but am having that SMS issue. Can someone help me with that, perhaps login to my account there and do the access with there phone? That would be super helpful!

PedroToronja- Any suggestions for clothing? I liked your post on that topic. PM maybe.

Barba- wingman needed? I'm here if it will work out nicely for you. Lets meetup, if anything so I can learn a bit, and speak English with someone haha.

Thanks and very useful resource for learning about new places.

[QUOTE=LilJoey; 1298887]By the way, why do you leave out the other very plausible location to meet young girls in Kiev during the daytime, which is obviously in the street, on the sidewalks like Strolling on Khreshchatyk avenue, and in the supermarkets, etc. ? These places are also good settings to meet girls, as well as cafes and shopping malls. Likewise, any good bars that have a daytime scene.

LJ[/QUOTE]I agree, the malls here are OK but the best is krishatik street, especially when they close it down for cars on the weekend.

LJ, are you in Kiev right now?

Returned last week from a 2 week stay in Kiev- my first trip for a number of years. Purpose of visit was football. Invited my girlfriend to join me which in hindsight was a mistake simply as I envisaged being alone but was joined by a few friends and made others along the way. My mongering was limited but still fun. Was worried that having 20, 000 male swedes plus other male football fans would limit opportunities but during my stay saw countless single babes and pairs of girls strolling the fan zone. In my opinion the good vibe and atmosphere of the Euro's put girls in a sweet mood for fun. Weather was hot, girls hotter and in my few "single days " if was easy to pick up phone numbers. I met 4 mamba girls. One freebie who I turned down because she invited her mate simply for the sake of getting a free meal and drinks out of me. Met 3 paid for mamba girls.all fitted their profiles and photos. One extremely hot in and out of bed. Another very good. And one the usual pimped pro. All cost me 500 hrivna an hour following negotiations. Cannot fault the service and wish to sample more. 2 of the girls I had repeat meets. A few of my English mates visited an arena strip club. Verdict was rip off with girls not even getting naked and drinks expensive.

Having spent much time in Warsaw recently I had forgotten how good Kiev was. It is the best place for mongering in Europe simply due to the vast availability of women- it has a value factor. Downside was the euro's bought out the worst in agencies screwing foreigners or stupid apartment rates. I had 7 homes in 2 weeks but I guess things will be normal soon after.

My report is tamer than usual but I wanted just to recommend Ukraine as an essential visit. People friendly, girls amazing and it's just a great place to visit especially in summer.

[QUOTE=Durrman; 1299292]I agree, the malls here are OK but the best is krishatik street, especially when they close it down for cars on the weekend.

LJ, are you in Kiev right now?[/QUOTE]No, I'm not in Kiev now, but I so much wish I were there. Miss the action very much, and some of the girls who were my favorites still fill my dreams. I am looking at possible trips in September / October period. Kiev is a great mongering destination. The girls are super.

LJ

[QUOTE=Naykan; 1298152]Hi Guys,

Where is the best place to meet young girls at day time in Kiev?

Cafee or shopping mall?

Thanks.

Naykan[/QUOTE]Are we reduced to this now? The best place is anywhere but the men's toilets in Arena.

Here are some tips:-

1. Guys that hunt pussy will get pussy, guys that ask stupid questions won't.

2. RIO is a waste of your time and money. We know 3 girls working there and would fuck 2 of them for free. Maybe. Had 1 back in our apartment after shooters a few times but we didn't bother."We" means myself and my girl.

3. Set your mamba profile to Kiev. Forget the "Looking for fun" profiles unless you just want an agency. Write to anyone you are interested in. Say what you are looking for. You'll get the same % success or better than the other way round. Get someone to help with your mamba profile so at least some of it is in Russian.

4. VK is another source you can use but quickly becoming swamped.

[QUOTE=Durrman; 1298622]The girls are the hottest. In my first month I banged 4 girls for free, didn't even buy them dinner or drinks. I meet them at bars, street, online. Doesn't matter, girls are always down to talk to me here.

All the girls wanted to have relationships which is even more awesome.

I've been to many cities in Canada, America, Rio de Janeiro, Buenos Aires, nothing compares. Thailand is still easier but it's not the same, girls are either tourist that you will never see again or asian girls that all look the same and mostly retarded.

Highly recommend. I and still there and plan on spending 6 months a year here for the rest of my life.[/QUOTE]Is this even real? LOL.

Okay seriously, possible.

Nice to hear you're doing well. That being said any half way decent guy not over 45 and fairly attractive will get some love in Kiev. Still more single women (unmarried, no children) available at the ideal age (18-45) in Ukraine than in most Western Countries.

[QUOTE=DJ FourMoney; 1300831]Is this even real? LOL.

Okay seriously, possible.

Nice to hear you're doing well. That being said any half way decent guy not over 45 and fairly attractive will get some love in Kiev. Still more single women (unmarried, no children) available at the ideal age (18-45) in Ukraine than in most Western Countries.[/QUOTE]Well yeah I'm 24 years old, healthy and I have all my hair LOL. Actually I wish I had a wingman here, it would be so much better. If any of you guys want to grab a beer and talk to some girls let me know, I'm in Kiev till September or so.

[QUOTE=Autounion; 1299161]Hello Guys new to the forum. Visiting Ukraine on July 5th to the 25th. I will arrive at SIP airport and ride into Yalta. I will stay in Yalta for a couple days, and move onto Odessa for a week, than Kiev for another week. All dates being flexible depending on what I find in each place to keep me around.

I would like to sign up for mamba, but am having that SMS issue. Can someone help me with that, perhaps login to my account there and do the access with there phone? That would be super helpful!

PedroToronja- Any suggestions for clothing? I liked your post on that topic. PM maybe.

Barba- wingman needed? I'm here if it will work out nicely for you. Lets meetup, if anything so I can learn a bit, and speak English with someone haha.

Thanks and very useful resource for learning about new places.[/QUOTE]Auto, Ukrainian / Russian women appreciate a well appointed man, more so that in other countries where a more 'aloof' look may be 'cool'. First, it shows you can afford to dress well. Most men in that area can't. Most cheap tourists can't or won't. You will see that most men, although they can't afford expensive clothes, they do match the colors very well, mostly black and gray. I received an education when yet another girl told me how they recognize an American tourist: we dress 'like crap'. The extremely casual 'dress code' of most Americans is not appreciated mostly nowhere else in the world, and especially in Eastern Europe. The are not as 'liberated' as we are. The typical American obviously shows with their clothing that they don't give a shit, because mostly they don't. Shorts, mismatching polo or t shirt, sandals. Sneakers at best. That is not liked there. They are 'European', and most so than the western European which are becoming more 'Americanized', therefore more casual. We are all about practicality, we introduced the widespread use of the jeans and even sneakers to places where a more formal attire is expected. To be 'formal' we add a blazer, but still jeans and sneakers. That does not bode well with their culture. Again, pay especial attention to clean, freshly buffed leather shoes and make sure your nails are cut short. If you are amiable to it, have them manicured: they definitely appreciate that. I had never done that in my life and it was a 23 years old Ukrainian beauty who outright 'told me' to do it.

They are not rich, but they do pay a lot of attention to hygiene. Every girl will always shower before and after sex with you, in your own room / apartment. They expect you to do the same, so just in case, hide all your valuables because you will disappear into the bathroom, and it is awkward to start collecting your money, etc. In front of her when leaving the bedroom.

If you use toothpicks, use them in the bathroom, not in the restaurant table as unfortunately many of our fellow Americans do. That is a no-no most anywhere else in the world.

Buy them roses, always odd number (3 will do) and NEVER yellow: it means you are breaking up.

More important, if you care to gain her heart, go down on her. Their men never do. Take your time, give her many Os and she will be your slave.

Do not use handkerchief, use paper tissue. Don't be surprised if they don't drink anything during a meal: it is their popular belief that drinking anything with your meal affects your 'digestion'. Just some cultural differences that you may want to keep in mind.

I love that country, especially their women. And no, most of them are not working girls, at all!

[QUOTE=Monsoon64; 1299326]Returned last week from a 2 week stay in Kiev- my first trip for a number of years. Purpose of visit was football. Invited my girlfriend to join me which in hindsight was a mistake simply as I envisaged being alone but was joined by a few friends and made others along the way. My mongering was limited but still fun. Was worried that having 20, 000 male swedes plus other male football fans would limit opportunities but during my stay saw countless single babes and pairs of girls strolling the fan zone. In my opinion the good vibe and atmosphere of the Euro's put girls in a sweet mood for fun. Weather was hot, girls hotter and in my few "single days " if was easy to pick up phone numbers. I met 4 mamba girls. One freebie who I turned down because she invited her mate simply for the sake of getting a free meal and drinks out of me. Met 3 paid for mamba girls. All fitted their profiles and photos. One extremely hot in and out of bed. Another very good. And one the usual pimped pro. All cost me 500 hrivna an hour following negotiations. Cannot fault the service and wish to sample more. 2 of the girls I had repeat meets. A few of my English mates visited an arena strip club. Verdict was rip off with girls not even getting naked and drinks expensive.

Having spent much time in Warsaw recently I had forgotten how good Kiev was. It is the best place for mongering in Europe simply due to the vast availability of women- it has a value factor. Downside was the euro's bought out the worst in agencies screwing foreigners or stupid apartment rates. I had 7 homes in 2 weeks but I guess things will be normal soon after.

My report is tamer than usual but I wanted just to recommend Ukraine as an essential visit. People friendly, girls amazing and it's just a great place to visit especially in summer.[/QUOTE]Thanks for your report. I met some good chicks with Mamba but on average a 7. I am interested on the one who refer to as hot in and out of bed. Can you tell me age, name, color hair and / or some other clues of how to find her on that site please? I go every 8 weeks, for one week and I will return the favor. I kept that visit stream for 5 years now. Next I will be there 20 to 30 of July and I will be available to meet any of you there for a drink and to compare notes, and maybe do some hunting together.

[QUOTE=DJ FourMoney;1300831]Is this even real?[/QUOTE]Nope! Half of the the reports on Kiev thread are from some schmuck with many user names that likes to talk to himself.

[QUOTE=PedroToronja;1300852]? I go every 8 weeks, for one week and I will return the favor. I kept that visit stream for 5 years now. Next I will be there 20 to 30 of July[/QUOTE][QUOTE]Where is River Palace now please? I used to enjoy that place a lot! Even the restaurant![/quote]"You go every 8 weeks for one week, and kept that visit stream for 5 years now ".

Very Interesting? Yet you didn't even know that River Palace was closed in 2010 and wasn't reincarnated?

[QUOTE=PedroToronja; 1300850]Auto, Ukrainian / Russian women appreciate a well appointed man, more so that in other countries where a more 'aloof' look may be 'cool'. First, it shows you can afford to dress well. Most men in that area can't. Most cheap tourists can't or won't. You will see that most men, although they can't afford expensive clothes, they do match the colors very well, mostly black and gray. I received an education when yet another girl told me how they recognize an American tourist: we dress 'like crap'. The extremely casual 'dress code' of most Americans is not appreciated mostly nowhere else in the world, and especially in Eastern Europe. The are not as 'liberated' as we are. The typical American obviously shows with their clothing that they don't give a shit, because mostly they don't. Shorts, mismatching polo or t shirt, sandals. Sneakers at best. That is not liked there. They are 'European', and most so than the western European which are becoming more 'Americanized', therefore more casual. We are all about practicality, we introduced the widespread use of the jeans and even sneakers to places where a more formal attire is expected. To be 'formal' we add a blazer, but still jeans and sneakers. That does not bode well with their culture. Again, pay especial attention to clean, freshly buffed leather shoes and make sure your nails are cut short. If you are amiable to it, have them manicured: they definitely appreciate that. I had never done that in my life and it was a 23 years old Ukrainian beauty who outright 'told me' to do it.

They are not rich, but they do pay a lot of attention to hygiene. Every girl will always shower before and after sex with you, in your own room / apartment. They expect you to do the same, so just in case, hide all your valuables because you will disappear into the bathroom, and it is awkward to start collecting your money, etc. In front of her when leaving the bedroom.

If you use toothpicks, use them in the bathroom, not in the restaurant table as unfortunately many of our fellow Americans do. That is a no-no most anywhere else in the world.

Buy them roses, always odd number (3 will do) and NEVER yellow: it means you are breaking up.

More important, if you care to gain her heart, go down on her. Their men never do. Take your time, give her many Os and she will be your slave.

Do not use handkerchief, use paper tissue. Don't be surprised if they don't drink anything during a meal: it is their popular belief that drinking anything with your meal affects your 'digestion'. Just some cultural differences that you may want to keep in mind.

I love that country, especially their women. And no, most of them are not working girls, at all![/QUOTE]Yeah, yeah, and yeah! The topic of dressing well in EE has been discussed a jillion times on this thread. We get it! Why don't you share something deeper than what a typical tourist learns in five minutes with a dev? But that's probably not possible for you because an EE dev will smell your rotten soul a mile away.

[QUOTE=PedroToronja; 1300850]Auto, Ukrainian / Russian women appreciate a well appointed man, more so that in other countries where a more 'aloof' look may be 'cool'. First, it shows you can afford to dress well. Most men in that area can't. Most cheap tourists can't or won't. You will see that most men, although they can't afford expensive clothes, they do match the colors very well, mostly black and gray. I received an education when yet another girl told me how they recognize an American tourist: we dress 'like crap'. The extremely casual 'dress code' of most Americans is not appreciated mostly nowhere else in the world, and especially in Eastern Europe. The are not as 'liberated' as we are. The typical American obviously shows with their clothing that they don't give a shit, because mostly they don't. Shorts, mismatching polo or t shirt, sandals. Sneakers at best. That is not liked there. They are 'European', and most so than the western European which are becoming more 'Americanized', therefore more casual. We are all about practicality, we introduced the widespread use of the jeans and even sneakers to places where a more formal attire is expected. To be 'formal' we add a blazer, but still jeans and sneakers. That does not bode well with their culture. Again, pay especial attention to clean, freshly buffed leather shoes and make sure your nails are cut short. If you are amiable to it, have them manicured: they definitely appreciate that. I had never done that in my life and it was a 23 years old Ukrainian beauty who outright 'told me' to do it.

They are not rich, but they do pay a lot of attention to hygiene. Every girl will always shower before and after sex with you, in your own room / apartment. They expect you to do the same, so just in case, hide all your valuables because you will disappear into the bathroom, and it is awkward to start collecting your money, etc. In front of her when leaving the bedroom.

If you use toothpicks, use them in the bathroom, not in the restaurant table as unfortunately many of our fellow Americans do. That is a no-no most anywhere else in the world.

Buy them roses, always odd number (3 will do) and NEVER yellow: it means you are breaking up.

More important, if you care to gain her heart, go down on her. Their men never do. Take your time, give her many Os and she will be your slave.

Do not use handkerchief, use paper tissue. Don't be surprised if they don't drink anything during a meal: it is their popular belief that drinking anything with your meal affects your 'digestion'. Just some cultural differences that you may want to keep in mind.

I love that country, especially their women. And no, most of them are not working girls, at all![/QUOTE]Hello, agree with you in topic dress. They don't have money for fashion dress but have style. Regerding hygiene disagree; a good warm shower (winter) is a luxory for most of them. But European or USA are not better, go with the public transportation and you will confirm: they have warm showers but don't use them correctly. And shower before sex, I sent Ukraiene, USA or Europe to the shower before we go to bed. Different in Asia, no chance for sex without shower

[QUOTE=Sponsor74;1301311]Regerding hygiene disagree[/QUOTE]+1. I've took home dozens and dozens drunk FSU sluts after seriously boozy nights out, and shower has never been on the menu before sex.

[QUOTE=Irish Lad; 1300635]Are we reduced to this now? The best place is anywhere but the men's toilets in Arena.

Here are some tips:-

1. Guys that hunt pussy will get pussy, guys that ask stupid questions won't.

2. RIO is a waste of your time and money. We know 3 girls working there and would fuck 2 of them for free. Maybe. Had 1 back in our apartment after shooters a few times but we didn't bother."We" means myself and my girl.

3. Set your mamba profile to Kiev. Forget the "Looking for fun" profiles unless you just want an agency. Write to anyone you are interested in. Say what you are looking for. You'll get the same % success or better than the other way round. Get someone to help with your mamba profile so at least some of it is in Russian.

4. VK is another source you can use but quickly becoming swamped.[/QUOTE]Hey,

Do you know the name of the working girls at Rio?

Dellam

[QUOTE=Prosal;1301316]+1. I've took home dozens and dozens drunk FSU sluts after seriously boozy nights out, and shower has never been on the menu before sex.[/QUOTE]This is very true! Assuming the girl is into you (not straight p4p) , you can come home from a long days work with a stinky dick and have your girl suck you on the spot without a wash. It's all based on the notion of "man is man" and "girl is girl".

Hygiene is important to EE girls but only in the sense of normal cleanliness. You obviously don't want to go take a [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] and than go sit down at the dinner table without washing your hands. That could drive a girl to a hysterical hissy fit. Clipping you finger nails is just common sense. Deodorant is completely unnecessary with EE's assuming you shower daily. Never ever ever had a girl mention something about my pits even though sometimes I could smell myself. In a weird way, I could almost sense they were turned on by the odor. Shower before sex is something for those that have to fuck a hand full of different men on a daily basis.

As to grooming, shave your balls and they will think you are a f*t. Although a good occasional trim is nice when things get a bit too hairy.

On a final note, its really sad how this thread has been corrupted by this goof that persistently creates different usernames and passes bad intel to mislead readers. If a lurker has read this thread for the last couple of years, I truly hope you have come to understand that the straight p4p market is not worth the trip to Kiev. The value of any journey out in EE land is only for those that can cross the threshold into girlfriends.

I have a soon to come dilemma. Long story short, I met a girl in Kiev and did not fuck her, just not enough time. What started with some simple emails turned into something very conversational almost on a daily basis. The day of consummation is around the corner and I am scared to fuck a girl without a condom in EE. I already know whats going to happen. Somewhere around the second or third date, she will probably tell me that she doesn't like condoms and I will have to make the choice. This always happens to me. A curse I can not escape.

If I say no, it will through a wet blanket on my hot sex. Then I have to deal with " you think I'm diseased","you don't really like me","I never use those things", blah blah blah. This normally would not be a problem for me in America. I can make a judgement call as to the girl's history and almost always go bareback as soon as the topic comes up. I am a weak man when it comes to this issue and usually break quickly if the girl is hot.

If I say yes, than I have to deal with the brain damage of fucking EE girl bareback in a country with a scary rate of Aids. Yes, I am quite aware this problem lies mostly among drug users. What do you guys think? Any good dev psychology and approach on this topic?

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1301516]What do you guys think? Any good dev psychology and approach on this topic?[/QUOTE]I only can speak from my own experience, but IMO condoms and slavic girls don't mix well. Those girls are too passionate, too emotional, too spontaneous, and they tend to follow their seething instinct without thinking twice (of course I am talking about girls who are into you, not prostitutes or sponsorettes). This is not really compatible with plastic. As is alcohol, and we all know that they drink like Cossaks.

I know there is nothing to be proud about, but I've never ever wrap it up in this part of the world. I mean never ever. I'm not joking. And as far as I can remember, the only two Russian girls who asked me to do so were russians living in Paris since a long time ie who started thinking with a western state of mind.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow; 1301516]I have a soon to come dilemma. Long story short, I met a girl in Kiev and did not fuck her, just not enough time. What started with some simple emails turned into something very conversational almost on a daily basis. The day of consummation is around the corner and I am scared to fuck a girl without a condom in EE. I already know whats going to happen. Somewhere around the second or third date, she will probably tell me that she doesn't like condoms and I will have to make the choice. This always happens to me. A curse I can not escape.

If I say no, it will through a wet blanket on my hot sex. Then I have to deal with " you think I'm diseased","you don't really like me","I never use those things", blah blah blah. This normally would not be a problem for me in America. I can make a judgement call as to the girl's history and almost always go bareback as soon as the topic comes up. I am a weak man when it comes to this issue and usually break quickly if the girl is hot.

If I say yes, than I have to deal with the brain damage of fucking EE girl bareback in a country with a scary rate of Aids. Yes, I am quite aware this problem lies mostly among drug users. What do you guys think? Any good dev psychology and approach on this topic?[/QUOTE]Has this happened to you before. How long have you been with the girls before this happened? I had heard that most girls were worried about Aids enough for this not to be common. I would not be afraid if they wanted to go off of condoms after a month, but after a few days? Then I would be worried that these girls have some STDS?

About HIV, a lot of people who have it in Ukraine and Russia have it from intravenous drug use and not heterosexual sex, I am of course not saying the risk is not there but am pointing out that if you are certain the girl is not a drug abuser the risk is lower.

The risk of HIV from unprotected sex is not as high as many assume, you can refer to the Wikipedia on this.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS[/url]#Sexual_contact.

However I have found that girls even in countries with very low HIV infection rates are adamant on condoms.

There is an easy way out of this, suggest mutual testing?

In Kiev the infection rate is much lower than the Russified East (those industrial towns are the worst).

I would be wary of ditching the condom soon, but not after a month or so, if I knew the girl was not a drug abuser. It she wants to go off condoms after a few days, then she does this with everyone.

I personally would not worry about getting HIV from unprotected oral sex, the risk is very low, but I would use condoms for vaginal or anal pentration. Say it is a good method of birth control.

Worrying about having HIV is the worst thing, I have hobbied a lot of times but always used a condom. I had two condom breaks and they caused me enough worry, even though I knew the risk was very low.

I really would not suggest ditching the condom soon to please a girl and then worrying about having HIV, the anxiety is not worth it. If you get serious you could suggest mutual testing.

[QUOTE=Prosal; 1301611]I only can speak from my own experience, but IMO condoms and slavic girls don't mix well. Those girls are too passionate, too emotional, too spontaneous, and they tend to follow their seething instinct without thinking twice (of course I am talking about girls who are into you, not prostitutes or sponsorettes). This is not really compatible with plastic. As is alcohol, and we all know that they drink like Cossaks.

I know there is nothing to be proud about, but I've never ever wrap it up in this part of the world. I mean never ever. I'm not joking. And as far as I can remember, the only two Russian girls who asked me to do so were russians living in Paris since a long time ie who started thinking with a western state of mind.[/QUOTE]Yep! Who am I kidding. When I like a girl and she likes me, it can only be one way.

And if sexual diseases are just the usual scary story for the mob?

The history is always written by winners. We never know the real history, past present future. Any information and any person could be manipulated by "those ones with power".

I remember what had happened when there were some very small outbreaks of anthrax in USA a lot of years ago. The US government threatened the German Bayer, the main manifacturer of antibiotic ciproxin, because Bayer should sell that antibiotic at a political price in order to avoid a carbuncle epidemic in USA. That was an exceeding warning. And in that time, USA chose a typical European welfare regime instead of their almighty market regime (* * * if a threat can be called "democracy" * * * ).

But the HIV epidemic should be a much more huge trouble than an outbreak of anthrax. HIV epidemic should be widespread in central Africa and in some poverty-struck countries around the world. And what do powerful governments make to avoid the widespread of HIV epidemic? And what do pharmaceutical corporations make to avoid the widespread of HIV epidemic? What do the winners make to avoid the widespread of HIV epidemic?

HIV drugs are very expensive. No Western governments have decided to provide HIV drugs at a political price to avoid the widespread of HIV epidemic. No HIV-specialized corporations have decided to sell their drugs at a political price to avoid the widespread of HIV epidemic. At the last, nobody actually minds about HIV because nobody actually makes anything to eliminate HIV at the source. Everybody has to pay prohibitive prices because HIV drugs are Western property. It would be different if HIV drugs are African property. Meanwhile HIV runs. Meanwhile buy condoms. Meanwhile pray. Meanwhile have no sex.

Therefore two questions arises:

- does HIV epidemic really exist?

- why do Western governments cure a domestic small outbreak by the denial of their capitalist system, and meanwhile they allow an abroad widespreading epidemic by the appeal to their capitalist system?

[QUOTE=Prosal; 1301611]I only can speak from my own experience, but IMO condoms and slavic girls don't mix well. Those girls are too passionate, too emotional, too spontaneous, and they tend to follow their seething instinct without thinking twice (of course I am talking about girls who are into you, not prostitutes or sponsorettes). This is not really compatible with plastic. As is alcohol, and we all know that they drink like Cossaks.

I know there is nothing to be proud about, but I've never ever wrap it up in this part of the world. I mean never ever. I'm not joking. And as far as I can remember, the only two Russian girls who asked me to do so were russians living in Paris since a long time ie who started thinking with a western state of mind.[/QUOTE]I generally agree. Most of the time I have sex without a condom with non-p4p "normal" girls. P4p is always condom.

However, I have two main concerns. The first is not AIDS but STDs. Not that it is foolproof, but when I go down to do some DATY on a new girl, or any girl for that matter, I make sure there are no warts, undue odors, scabs, etc. Anything out of the ordinary would give me some serious concerns. If I do have doubts, and that has been a rare occurrence but it has happened, then it is time to rubber up.

The other issue that concerns me as a long time resident is that little thing that can happen 9 months later when you go without a condom. So far so good but it is a surprise that may land on my doorstep at some point down the road! Depending on situation, I do try to ask about her birth control usage but that may or may not be the truth.

You guys are nuts. Anyone who partakes in our 'hobby' and / or engages in a lot of casual sex and doesn't use a condom is an idiot.

It's knuckleheads like you and the girls you tap that should make condom use mandatory.

Guaranteed you both have HPV at the very least.

I don't know what kind of girls you guys are dating but condom use has never been an issue for me or the girls I am tapping.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1301713]Yep! Who am I kidding. When I like a girl and she likes me, it can only be one way.[/QUOTE]

Every girl who's name ends with an 'A' at Rio is a 100% working girl. It's a fact!

[QUOTE=Dellam; 1301356]Hey,

Do you know the name of the working girls at Rio?

Dellam[/QUOTE]

I dunno, I've had some pretty good luck at the toliet in Arena but it was when I walked into the female toliet by accident.

I thought you were using the royal 'we' now.

[QUOTE=Irish Lad; 1300635]Are we reduced to this now? The best place is anywhere but the men's toilets in Arena.

2. RIO is a waste of your time and money. We know 3 girls working there and would fuck 2 of them for free. Maybe. Had 1 back in our apartment after shooters a few times but we didn't bother."We" means myself and my girl.[/QUOTE]

If you want to go to a big strip club for a strip club like experience in Kiev go to any of the Rhino clubs. The girls are much better looking.

If you want to over pay a 5-7 for sex go to Rio.

[QUOTE=Duesentrieb; 1297418]I was at the disputed RIO Club yesterday (not for the first time). It was very crowded (a lot of foreigners, Euro visitors mainly).

Everyone has a right to his own opinion- and in my point of view at RIO the atmosphere is to cool and the girls act to snobby.

On the other hand the place is good organized, you get your drinks fast and the staff is friendly.

So it is neither a tourist-trap nor a heaven for sex tourists- it is just a big strip-club in the capital of Ukraine.

You can have a good time there or you can just waste your money. It's up to you.[/QUOTE]

Was "invited" to Dante club yesterday. A big black hole for the wallet but a lot of really hot girls there. Many nipples hopping around poking Barba in the eyes. 90% of the devs seems to be hooked on money and want you to spend a fortune on them before spreading, but I was too drunk to really claim that I have any true knowledge about the distribution. Maybe there are many that will go for the normal 50-100 USD per hour. All in all the ambiance was good with a lot of dancing and drinking, but 300 UAH to just enter is a joke so I will not go back.

Cheers from Barba (with STD anxiety after being stupid and fucking girls in the ass and p*ssy without condom)

Serious question since I'm about to spend 6 days at the beach in Odessa.

1- When I go to the clubs in Arkadia district do I need to wear slacks, button-down shirt and stiff leather shoes to a club by the sea on a hot July night?

2- What about walking around town? Can I walk around a resort area in shorts and flip-flops or my Nike Air Max +?

Or will I just look like a clueless American?

[QUOTE=PedroToronja;1300850]The extremely casual 'dress code' of most Americans is not appreciated mostly nowhere else in the world, and especially in Eastern Europe. The are not as 'liberated' as we are. The typical American obviously shows with their clothing that they don't give a shit, because mostly they don't. Shorts, mismatching polo or t shirt, sandals. Sneakers at best. That is not liked there.[/QUOTE]

On my May trip to Kiev, my regular Rio girl and I ended up going bareback somehow. I had always enjoyed OWO with her but used a condom for regualar sex with her. She only became concerned when on one of the evenings we were together, I really lost control and finished inside her too! It is no fun finding an Alteca at 3 in the morning. She was a good sport though and told me that she had not gone bareback with anyone since the father of her child. When I got home, I spent a few restless days before my test results indicated that I am clean. I am returning to Kiev next week for a two week trip and it is my intention to keep away from Rio altogether even though my apartment is only a block away! As any poker player will tell you, you must make decisions based on risk\reward analysis when playing poker. Except, I can not explain why I lose control of my senses as soon as the unsmiling Immigration officer stamps my passport upon entry in to Kiev at that magnificant airport.). Logic and reason fails me completely; the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak- to borrow from a best seller book! I just become a person I do not know and can no longer explain my actions to myself, let alone others.

If anyone is around July 12-30 and would like to discuss topics of mutual interest over a beer or two, PM me please! I got an email from my massage girl today telling me Kiev is so hot that it is hard to breath! I am sure she is exaggerating.

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[QUOTE=Cherchezfemme; 1301862]Serious question since I'm about to spend 6 days at the beach in Odessa.

1- When I go to the clubs in Arkadia district do I need to wear slacks, button-down shirt and stiff leather shoes to a club by the sea on a hot July night?

2- What about walking around town? Can I walk around a resort area in shorts and flip-flops or my Nike Air Max +?

Or will I just look like a clueless American?[/QUOTE]The "beach" at Odessa is nothing much to speak of. If you are thinking Miami Beach or any other nice beach, this is really not it.

Odessa is dirty and ugly. Beach will be occupied up to one inch of the waterline in general. Unless you can find a "public" beach which will smell bad and be covered in trash.

That said, Itaka is nice, people say Ibiza is the best but it's maybe like any other Ukranian / Russian type judgment, might be more expensive so it's "the best".

I saw a lot of clueless drunken Russian types in their above the knee jean shorts and flipflops going around to the clubs. I was dressed up, looked well off, no drinking. So of course, the cops stopped me to hassle me. Took my passport and held me for 10 minutes asking interminable questions like what my reason to be in France after Ukraine was and where I would be staying in France, etc. While the drunk Russians stumble around and get in fights.

So the answer to your question would seem to be that you are better off dressing to fit in with the crowd. Having just left Odessa, the crowd looked very young, very Russian. I didn't see anyone much who looked over 40 let alone in their 30s. Seemed to be a lineup of WGs at Itaka at the outdoor bar area, but kind of 6-7 ish. I was with some friends and when the girls went dancing got hit on by Germans and Italians on the dance floor and all were rejected.

Can't say I liked Odessa much. Hope your stay is better.

In Kiev now, brief report. Every time I return to this city it seems to be a bit worse from our perspective but maybe that's just my perspective.

I like Buddha bar for itself so I stop there from time to time. First time the male to female ratio was about 5:1. Small group of 3 working girls sitting on the sofas near the end of the bar. Same group that is there every day, one mildly attractive blonde who likes to dance and asks $500, and her less attractive friends.

Many men sitting at the bar staring at their iPhones waiting for something to happen.

Went to Millenium. First time I ever visited that place, every girl had a smoking fit "Ukranian perfect" body, and I was blown away. This time, they have a couple of girls dancing, one with a good sized spare tire around her gut and another who has that all over soft baby fat thing. A couple of the svelte beautiful girls still. One quoted me $400 to go, which is less than the $500 asked last time, but more than the $300 the first time.

We know this is not the best place or anything, I am just supplying data.

Got a drink for a girl I wanted to check out from last time a bit closer than under the flattering lights. Immediately she went to the champagne (at 900 UAH, declined). Got her a glass of wine she didn't touch, she went to the upsell to take her out, declined, then to the private dance, I said after you finish your wine, then yes. She wouldn't touch the wine though and kept hammering on the upsells so in the end I just told her to go.

Waitresses tending to carry a chip on their shoulder here too for some reason. They seem fine after they know you will tip but before that makes you want to turn around and leave.

There are a couple of nice girls in here though still and a couple of stunners.

Returned to Buddha Bar, male:female ratio had improved by most of the men not coming and the place being empty. Didn't hit it on Friday, Saturday though. Same hard core of 3-4 WGs in the same spot sitting near the end of the bar. Smiled at them but was not interested in girls who are 7s asking $500 for what is sure to be a poor evening and clock watching.

Enjoyed the music, left later.

Made arrangements with several Mamba girls. All of them on the day of don't answer phones, SMS or messages on the site. Contact me three days later,"Sorry, [insert dumbass girl excuse here, like lost my phone, battery out of power, didn't see your message]". Ask to reschedule. Trying to filter out the fakes, the agencies and get down to the girls who are normal and will show up, while still being attractive, is a lot of work, confirmed.

Need to expand my area of activities but feeling older by the minute. Each trip to Kiev makes me hate life a little more so I am doing it wrong.

[QUOTE=Protocol;1301969]In Kiev now. Many men sitting at the bar staring at their iPhones waiting for something to happen.[/QUOTE] A+

Too bleeding funny mate. Reminds me of a time at Daniel restaurant in NYC sitting next to 2 couples of 20 somethings. They DID not exchange much in the way of talk ALL NIGHT but each were eagerly watching their new IPhones for action.

I was going to check out the city of Kiev on my 4 week Euro jaunt starting this week but may just stick to Germany, Austria and Hungary.

[QUOTE=Protocol;1301969]Need to expand my area of activities but feeling older by the minute. Each trip to Kiev makes me hate life a little more so I am doing it wrong.[/QUOTE]I know nothing about Ukraine but I had to comment on your last sentence: it's scary to read that it's making you "hate life a little more." Ukraine sounds like a good place to have fun and enjoy the company of beautiful, feminine women.

If it's not working out for you, then I admire you for admitting that. My question to you is : What are you going to do about it? My advice would be to closely examine what you are doing, get feedback and criticism from others who are doing what you want to do, and make adjustments. Do you need to speak the language better? Do you need a better way to introduce yourself? Is it a case of better photos in the personal ads? Are you looking for women in the wrong places?

Don't beat yourself up over it. Make some adjustments and see what happens. It may be the case that it's not YOU, it's the Ukraine or some facet of it, and that the best thing to do is to go to other countries. Not every business succeeds in every country. Don't assume the worst about yourself and get down on yourself.

[QUOTE=Cherchezfemme; 1302036]I know nothing about Ukraine but I had to comment on your last sentence: it's scary to read that it's making you "hate life a little more." Ukraine sounds like a good place to have fun and enjoy the company of beautiful, feminine women.

If it's not working out for you, then I admire you for admitting that. My question to you is : What are you going to do about it? My advice would be to closely examine what you are doing, get feedback and criticism from others who are doing what you want to do, and make adjustments. Do you need to speak the language better? Do you need a better way to introduce yourself? Is it a case of better photos in the personal ads? Are you looking for women in the wrong places?

Don't beat yourself up over it. Make some adjustments and see what happens. It may be the case that it's not YOU, it's the Ukraine or some facet of it, and that the best thing to do is to go to other countries. Not every business succeeds in every country. Don't assume the worst about yourself and get down on yourself.[/QUOTE]Well spoken dude!

Following requests. The 2 mamba girls who I had nice time with in Kiev were :nice Detka aged 30 and agent pRovocateur aged 32. Both easy to find if you search.

[QUOTE=Protocol;1301964]Can't say I liked Odessa much. Hope your stay is better.[/QUOTE]Not sure I understood everything you said, I assume English is not your first language but that's OK!

Please clarify:

Were you harassed by the police in France or in Ukraine?

Where did you see the Russian guys wearing flip-flops and jorts and getting into fights: Ibiza or Odessa?

If it was Odessa, thank you for answering my question about the dress code. I'll bring a pair of slacks just in case but I'll wear white summer shoes and leave black dress shoes at home.

And who was rejected on the dance floor? Were the Russian guys rejected by German and Italian girls or was it Germans and Italians rejected by Ukrainian girls?

Last, how did you know the girls you saw were working girls? Did you discuss business with them? Or they just looked like pros?

[QUOTE=How14;1301867]Yes walk around like a clueless american, which is what you are, you need advice on here as to what to wear? WTF[/QUOTE]Any questions I ask is so that I can avoid appearing like a clueless American. That's what we're here for, correct? To educate ourselves. I asked how casual I could dress in a sea-side resort area, especially in the clubs; seems like a relevant question.

Regarding what to wear: in the brief time I've spent on the Ukraine boards, you guys make a lot of catty comments and insults about dressing and appearance.

That is an extremely effeminate and gay thing to do, in American culture. Just thought you might like to know that.

In any case, I will be in Odessa in a couple of weeks and will report back.

PS- Rarrr!

PPS- That is the sound of a cat hissing, which American men make to each other when someone else, usually a gay man or a woman, is making nasty comments about the appearance of others. It signals that there may be a fight between two women coming up, known as a "catfight."

[QUOTE=Cherchezfemme;1301862]Serious question since I'm about to spend 6 days at the beach in Odessa.[/QUOTE]Need any suggestion on how to wear the condom?

[QUOTE=Cherchezfemme; 1302108]Regarding what to wear: in the brief time I've spent on the Ukraine boards, you guys make a lot of catty comments and insults about dressing and appearance.

That is an extremely effeminate and gay thing to do, in American culture. Just thought you might like to know that.[/QUOTE]Yeah, but the thread is about Ukraine and not America. You have to do your best to relay the message that you are a man with access to resources and dressing well is a simple tool. Maybe you have the ability to express yourself as a man of strength and direction wearing t shirts and cargo shorts. In that case, pull out your JCrew casuals.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1302137]You have to do your best to relay the message that you are a man with access to resources and dressing well is a simple tool.[/QUOTE]Message received and acknowledged.

Looking forward to the Ukraine!

Putting the final touches to my Ukraine trip, but reading Protocol's report makes me slightly worried. How about night clubs were you can meet non working girls? If I go clubbing I want to dance and try my luck. Reading back in the forum makes me uncertain, all clubs discussed seems to mention more or less working girls, where does the 20 to 30 crowd go out to party in Kiev?

Cheers.

Q

It's warm in Kiev now, and one of the best places to stay is the Bora Bora beach club on the Dniepr river banks. On the sand beach itself, there are many young women alone or with girlfriends. They are very open to initiating conversation. In the morning, the ratio of women to men ratio is often 4 to 5 times. At around 4pm, Kiev's golden youth come and fill up the rest pads around the swimming pools. Many young hotties. In the evening, it turns into a disco. And at 9am some are still dancing!

About 20km south of Kiev is the "Blue Lake". Its waters are very clean, due to water springs at the bottom of the lake. When the weather is hot, it's thousands of people around the lake. There are some private beaches which are very well organized. One of them has small bungalows in the garden right next to the beach. Local businessmen bring their wives, or girlfriends to eat and fuck. And get hopelessly drunk!

Picking up great looking women at the Contemporary Art Biennale, in Kiev's old arsenal is like shooting fish in a barrel. Starting conversation with lone girls in front of an exhibit, in the outdoor cafe, with one of the stewardesses. Ratio of women to men is 3 to 4 times. It's open till end of July.
As many commented before : dressing smartly, and having a minimum of intelligent conversation is the recipe for success.
My standard lines for contact are: "you seem to like this installation,why?" or "which is your favourite exhibit"?

[QUOTE=Bimbo Boy;1302167]It's warm in Kiev now, and one of the best places to stay is the Bora Bora beach club on the Dniepr river banks. On the sand beach itself, there are many young women alone or with girlfriends. They are very open to initiating conversation. In the morning, the ratio of women to men ratio is often 4 to 5 times. At around 4pm, Kiev's golden youth come and fill up the rest pads around the swimming pools. Many young hotties. In the evening, it turns into a disco. And at 9am some are still dancing![/QUOTE]Spot on BB. There is trendy summer swimming pools in each FSU city. Beside being a nice daytime activity on scorching hot days, it offers often prodigious eye-candy and are definitely great hunting grounds for a "skilled" guy. I made recently the same remark about the Bamboo and Diamon pools in Bucarest. As about Anger in Kharkov. As about the Radisson pool in Tashkent. That said, don't know if most of the guys posting here could fit in (I mean just fit in, not even stand out) in this kind of place. (rolleyes)

[QUOTE=Qubei; 1302159]Putting the final touches to my Ukraine trip, but reading Protocol's report makes me slightly worried. How about night clubs were you can meet non working girls? If I go clubbing I want to dance and try my luck. Reading back in the forum makes me uncertain, all clubs discussed seems to mention more or less working girls, where does the 20 to 30 crowd go out to party in Kiev?

Cheers.

Q[/QUOTE]I liked D'Luxe and Skybar, both have a very small percentage of wg's. I think Protocal refers mostly to straight p4p in Kiev which probably is in decline but still full of opportunity if you look.

[QUOTE=Bimbo Boy;1302173]Picking up great looking women at the Contemporary Art Biennale, in Kiev's old arsenal is like shooting fish in a barrel.[/QUOTE]The 4th picture looks like something from "Lost in Space"."Warning Will Rogers." It's like they cut off the robot's head and reproduced it and threw 'them on the ground but I lOVE LOVE LOOOOVVVE your imagination in heading to the arts and cultural scene (as it were) to pick up the freebie arty element.

A+ son!

You are certainly not alone here. Nice to see such honest reports. The truth is that the girls in Kiev are getting spoilt by the hour by so many men trying to hunt them from far and wide. Agreed the girls in Ukraine are one amongst the best looking but of late the demand for them is outweighing the supply. Still maybe true that Ukraine is an easier hunting ground than anywhere in europe. I too have started to feel that the rewards one gets in Kiev is certainly not worth the amount of effort required. The girls in mamba and night clubs all have an agenda period.

[QUOTE=Protocol; 1301969]In Kiev now, brief report. Every time I return to this city it seems to be a bit worse from our perspective but maybe that's just my perspective.

I like Buddha bar for itself so I stop there from time to time. First time the male to female ratio was about 5:1. Small group of 3 working girls sitting on the sofas near the end of the bar. Same group that is there every day, one mildly attractive blonde who likes to dance and asks $500, and her less attractive friends.

Many men sitting at the bar staring at their iPhones waiting for something to happen.

Went to Millenium. First time I ever visited that place, every girl had a smoking fit "Ukranian perfect" body, and I was blown away. This time, they have a couple of girls dancing, one with a good sized spare tire around her gut and another who has that all over soft baby fat thing. A couple of the svelte beautiful girls still. One quoted me $400 to go, which is less than the $500 asked last time, but more than the $300 the first time.

We know this is not the best place or anything, I am just supplying data.

Got a drink for a girl I wanted to check out from last time a bit closer than under the flattering lights. Immediately she went to the champagne (at 900 UAH, declined). Got her a glass of wine she didn't touch, she went to the upsell to take her out, declined, then to the private dance, I said after you finish your wine, then yes. She wouldn't touch the wine though and kept hammering on the upsells so in the end I just told her to go.

Waitresses tending to carry a chip on their shoulder here too for some reason. They seem fine after they know you will tip but before that makes you want to turn around and leave.

There are a couple of nice girls in here though still and a couple of stunners.

Returned to Buddha Bar, male:female ratio had improved by most of the men not coming and the place being empty. Didn't hit it on Friday, Saturday though. Same hard core of 3-4 WGs in the same spot sitting near the end of the bar. Smiled at them but was not interested in girls who are 7s asking $500 for what is sure to be a poor evening and clock watching.

Enjoyed the music, left later.

Made arrangements with several Mamba girls. All of them on the day of don't answer phones, SMS or messages on the site. Contact me three days later,"Sorry, [insert dumbass girl excuse here, like lost my phone, battery out of power, didn't see your message]". Ask to reschedule. Trying to filter out the fakes, the agencies and get down to the girls who are normal and will show up, while still being attractive, is a lot of work, confirmed.

Need to expand my area of activities but feeling older by the minute. Each trip to Kiev makes me hate life a little more so I am doing it wrong.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Belvaros; 1302192]The 4th picture looks like something from "Lost in Space"."Warning Will Rogers." It's like they cut off the robot's head and reproduced it and threw 'them on the ground but I lOVE LOVE LOOOOVVVE your imagination in heading to the arts and cultural scene (as it were) to pick up the freebie arty element.

A+ son![/QUOTE]A killer statement is "I came to Kiev just to see this exceptional Art biennale!".

The girl would NEVER think about sex tourism!

And then do like Prosal : live in Paris and invite her to come and visit you.

I am sure that Prosal has a problem in fitting all the girls into his agenda!

Hats off for Bimbo Boy. Thank's! I think there are also less upscale beaches for the one that do not have 4000 € fur coats. Even nude beaches. Use Google. In Kharkov I took a day at a lake and the place was packed with drunk girls.

Barba almost had one of Protocol's described days yesterday, but it turned 180 degrees with the help of a friend, Mamba and taking a chance with an unseen girl. Blond, young and slim. With a tight pussy and tighter ass.

Averaged less than 50 USD per hour for the girls I paid in Kharkov and Kiev. Three of them accepted anal but I did not ask before. Just poked when we where well into the act and met little resistance. Going bareback was stupid in at least one of the occasions but always so nice to fill a tight ass and a pussy with cum. Will be a long wait for the test (yes you do need to wait weeks and not days). The girls I met that had pictures in the profile, was looking exactly as promised so no bait and switch this time either.

In my limited experience of Ukraine, this is not as easy as for example Thailand or the Philippines. Not if you want someone around 20 years old that fucks you within minutes of walking in the door of your sex dungeon. You need to qualify more as a man to have pretty and young girls. Requires more hunting time per pussy so to speak. Or a network of friends that can share the sacrifice in hours, so you get verified contacts and numbers to pass around in your circle. Some people here make it sound very easy to get young pretty girls in Ukraine, and maybe it can be at times, an other days it is absolutely not, especially if you just fly in for a few days and want real sex (a hand job is not real sex for me). Guys that spends weeks or months chasing girls in any city with poor girls will of course have lots of contacts, but I am sure some guys here make it sound simpler than it actually is for them, just to come across as winners in the ego enslaved primitive male fantasy world we all visit at times. IMHO it is much easier to go from "hello" to orgasm in Asia, but to just make contact with young girls is very simple in Ukraine. Even extremely simple, as long as you look respectable dare to open your moth.

As for looks I think Ukraine is not so extremely good as some claim. Yes there are MANY pretty girls and they do dress sexy, but visit Caracas, Paris, Milano, Oslo or Stockholm and it is just the same. Sex might be harder to find in these cities for the average sex tourist, but just the visual impression in Kiev or Kharkov is not that extremely good. A big portion of the girls have an ordinary or even crude EE look if you look above the tits. A pig in make-up is still a pig.

Many of the hottest girls in Kiev walk around looking like they have dog shit under their nose, and this got to me at first, until I realized it is often an act. In reality they are quite sweet and smiles easily. The uncontent dog shit entitlement face can be seen on TV and in advertisements also so maybe it is some cultural thing. Like the Egyptian poses. Luckily females are always lazy and pragmatical, and wipe of the face if you give them a reason to like and trust you.

Taxi is quite cheap in Kiev but it is interesting and entertaining to use public transportation. The metro in Kiev is very easy to use. Going to the airport you take the metro to Kharkivska station for 2 UAH. Leave the metro-wagon going left, and then to the right through the doors and right again. Just up the the stairs you see Sky buses waiting on the big street. I left the Independence square at around 09:00 AM and arrived at around 10:15 AM at Borispil. The cost for the bus is 20 UAH. You can naturally do the opposite if you just arrived in Kiev. Exit terminal B and walk to your left. I waited 5-10 minutes for departure the two times I used the bus.

B.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1301516]I have a soon to come dilemma.[/QUOTE]Buy some rapid test kits. [url]http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/testing/rapid/[/url]

You can Google it and find low quantity vendors all over the world or wholesale brokers in for example Asia.

There is one kit for every major STD.

I always carry these tests (unless I am out of them like now). Sticking needles in your fingers is not so great foreplay but with a girl like the one you describe, I think you can easily tell her that you want both of you to feel 100% safe and relaxed, and test yourself together.

B.

Only in Ukraine. Go to love it. You got to love it.

I am considering a 2 day trip to Kiev this weekend. One of my fantasies is to have the choice from working girls hangin out in hotel lobbys and bars. Is the Dnipiro a good spot for this? And do many of them speak any english or french? Or is it a "smile and nod operation"?

I am a bit hesitant to bother adding 2 days of my journey through europe to go there if it is going to be more frustrating than its worth.

Not sure what to do?

[QUOTE=Barba;1302236]As for looks I think Ukraine is not so extremely good as some claim. Yes there are MANY pretty girls and they do dress sexy, but visit Caracas, Paris, Milano, Oslo or Stockholm and it is just the same. Sex might be harder to find in these cities for the average sex tourist, but just the visual impression in Kiev or Kharkov is not that extremely good. A big portion of the girls have an ordinary or even crude EE look if you look above the tits. A pig in make-up is still a pig.[/QUOTE]Not really fair to compare the streets of a poor city against major cultural business centers B. Most of the beautiful girls strolling the streets of your above mentioned Western cities are connected to the city center by work or family. A lot of the beauty found in Kiev has no reason to stroll the streets of K street or be around city center. You have to look at places where single women concentrate such as nightclubs. I personally have never seen so many beautiful single women as I did in D'Luxe and Skybar. I doubt places like Paris have nightclubs filled with such beautiful single women as in Kiev and if they did, they would never lay eyes on me.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1302401]I doubt places like Paris have nightclubs filled with such beautiful single women as in Kiev .[/QUOTE]+1. Barba must be joking with that comment. In Paris, even in the cosmopolitan bowels, the ratio of hot women is pretty low. Much lower than in FSU or even EE. If you compare Russia, Ukraine or Belarus to any western country, the number of truly hot girls is probably 10 to 1. Women are simply more beautiful and slender in this part of the world, there is no way to deny it. Not even talking about dressing style, on that matter western girls can't compete.

[QUOTE=Cherchezfemme; 1302106]Not sure I understood everything you said, I assume English is not your first language but that's OK!

Please clarify:

Were you harassed by the police in France or in Ukraine?

Where did you see the Russian guys wearing flip-flops and jorts and getting into fights: Ibiza or Odessa?

If it was Odessa, thank you for answering my question about the dress code. I'll bring a pair of slacks just in case but I'll wear white summer shoes and leave black dress shoes at home.

And who was rejected on the dance floor? Were the Russian guys rejected by German and Italian girls or was it Germans and Italians rejected by Ukrainian girls?

Last, how did you know the girls you saw were working girls? Did you discuss business with them? Or they just looked like pros?[/QUOTE]I was harassed by the police in Odessa. The "militia" are going up and down the strip where the clubs are. Not so much to keep the peace but to find foreigners who may have forgotten their passport and who can then be intimidated into coughing up a "fine".

All the more so if they find you in the company of a nice young Ukranian girl with limited English skills, I would suppose.

The drunken Russian guys fighting were in Odessa. Also a drunken Russian couple, man and woman, screaming at each other and the guy close to hitting the girl. All of that just passes by fine.

All if it was right near the entrance to Ibiza.

You will have no problems in the clubs themselves they are fine. All I'm saying from the above is that the men visiting around here are certainly not stylish or worried too much about appearance. You can be casual and fit in. All of the warnings online about "face control" applying to these clubs I think doesn't apply. There were big lines and everyone was let in, all the way to fat 40-50 year old women dressed poorly. That kind of democratic behavior is something I like, if someone wants to pay, let them in I think.

Germans and Italians were rejected by the Ukrainian girls. Some of the girls just want to go out and dance. To me I didn't see very much in the way of "action" in terms of what you would see in some bars in Dubai or even Buddha Bar on a weekend where it can be (was?) normal if you sit at the bar to overhear negotiations in both ears while ordering your drink.

Yes, the Dnipro is the perfect place for people like you. Grab a couple of beers and then jump from the bridge right into it.

YOU UNDERSTAND NOTHING! Stay where you are. And leave the fun and sex and beauty to the rest of us! Thank you!

[QUOTE=Foxwilly; 1302397]I am considering a 2 day trip to Kiev this weekend. One of my fantasies is to have the choice from working girls hangin out in hotel lobbys and bars. Is the Dnipiro a good spot for this? And do many of them speak any english or french? Or is it a "smile and nod operation"?

I am a bit hesitant to bother adding 2 days of my journey through europe to go there if it is going to be more frustrating than its worth.

Not sure what to do?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Barba; 1302239]Buy some rapid test kits.

[url]http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/testing/rapid/[/url]

B.[/QUOTE]My Kievan girlfriend asked me for a test in order to continue doing her bareback. She is suspecting that I am doing other girls bareback too.

I readily accepted, and she took me to a medical center. Quite modern. I signed a form and paid 350 hrivna for multi STD testing. After a short wait I entered the test room and was welcomed by a cute 20yo nurse. I was expecting my blood to be sampled, but instead she asked me to show my penis. OK, so I did, expecting some kind of superficial skin sample to be taken.

Instead, she expertly and quickly inserted some cotton Qtip inside my penis's seminal tube, and rotated it swiftly for a few seconds.

OOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUCH! That hurt! Thank god, it was quickly over.

I had these STD-HIV tests taken many times before, and they were always done through blood samples.

FSU is quite an experience! Do not expect things to be the same as in the West!

Regards.

[QUOTE=Wallyally;1302379]Only in Ukraine. Go to love it. You got to love it.[/QUOTE]The beach on the opposite river bank of the Bora Bora club is a nude beach. You can admire kievan beauties in all their splendor!

But they don't like it if you watch them with your bathing suit on. You must be nude like everyone else.

It's only a 150m swim from the Bora Bora club to the other bank.

Next time, I'm at the Bora Bora club, I will bring a powerful zoom camera with me!

Regards.

[QUOTE=Bimbo Boy; 1302530]My Kievan girlfriend asked me for a test in order to continue doing her bareback. She is suspecting that I am doing other girls bareback too.

I readily accepted, and she took me to a medical center. Quite modern. I signed a form and paid 350 hrivna for multi STD testing. After a short wait I entered the test room and was welcomed by a cute 20yo nurse. I was expecting my blood to be sampled, but instead she asked me to show my penis. OK, so I did, expecting some kind of superficial skin sample to be taken.

Instead, she expertly and quickly inserted some cotton Qtip inside my penis's seminal tube, and rotated it swiftly for a few seconds.

OOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUCH! That hurt! Thank god, it was quickly over.

I had these STD-HIV tests taken many times before, and they were always done through blood samples.

FSU is quite an experience! Do not expect things to be the same as in the West!

Regards.[/QUOTE]That sounds like an old style test for gonorrhea. I am no doctor but I am pretty sure that as HIV is viral blood has to be taken. You might want to have a do over. Or not, if your girl is satisfied.

AM

[QUOTE=Bimbo Boy; 1302530]My Kievan girlfriend asked me for a test in order to continue doing her bareback. She is suspecting that I am doing other girls bareback too.

I readily accepted, and she took me to a medical center. Quite modern. I signed a form and paid 350 hrivna for multi STD testing. After a short wait I entered the test room and was welcomed by a cute 20yo nurse. I was expecting my blood to be sampled, but instead she asked me to show my penis. OK, so I did, expecting some kind of superficial skin sample to be taken.

Instead, she expertly and quickly inserted some cotton Qtip inside my penis's seminal tube, and rotated it swiftly for a few seconds.

Ouch! That hurt! Thank god, it was quickly over.

I had these STD-HIV tests taken many times before, and they were always done through blood samples.

FSU is quite an experience! Do not expect things to be the same as in the West!

Regards.[/QUOTE]The only way to do a male HPV test is by taking a sample from your inner eye (as it were) and as Angus says for accurate Gonorrhea. Also don't panic if you have HPV. They say 80% of Americans over 35 have it.

[QUOTE=Angus Magee; 1302533]That sounds like an old style test for gonorrhea. I am no doctor but I am pretty sure that as HIV is viral blood has to be taken. You might want to have a do over. Or not, if your girl is satisfied.

AM[/QUOTE]Yes, from the WebMD website : "The doctor may put a thin swab into the urethra and take a sample of fluid and cells to test for infections such as chlamydia or gonorrhea."

[QUOTE=Angus Magee; 1302533]That sounds like an old style test for gonorrhea. I am no doctor but I am pretty sure that as HIV is viral blood has to be taken. You might want to have a do over. Or not, if your girl is satisfied.

AM[/QUOTE]One can also collect samples for HIV I and II from the inside of the mouth. Never heard about HIV test samples collected with the swab thought. This is normally G and C and these are fairly easily cured. Some Asian strains of G are nasty but not incurable. I suggest any monger to save this table and then stock up when in countries that allows it. I always carry a smaller pharmacy. I never advice people on how to dress up during sex but if you do not like condoms, I think it is wise to at least carry a HIV test together with some Doxycycline, Ciprofloxacin and Azithromycin.

[url]http://www.aafp.org/afp/1999/1001/p1387.html[/url]

I am no doctor so maybe someone else has more initiated advice.

B.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1302401]Not really fair to compare the streets of a poor city against major cultural business centers B. Most of the beautiful girls strolling the streets of your above mentioned Western cities are connected to the city center by work or family. A lot of the beauty found in Kiev has no reason to stroll the streets of K street or be around city center. You have to look at places where single women concentrate such as nightclubs. I personally have never seen so many beautiful single women as I did in D'Luxe and Skybar. I doubt places like Paris have nightclubs filled with such beautiful single women as in Kiev and if they did, they would never lay eyes on me.[/QUOTE]You are right. I did not think about this. There is a reason why Milano is filled with models. And I need to take back my comment about Paris since I never visited. Maybe all these pictures of models in front of the big tower where rigged to attract suckers like me.

When I was at that Dante Club I admittedly did see an incredible amount of hot girls. They where everywhere, all the time. The models that did some show looked like pale tooth picks, but still pretty. And they all likes me to buy them 120 UAH drinks.

In the subway these stunners are more scarce IMHO. And when roaming around independence square this weekend I did not see that many hot girls either to be honest. They where maybe on the beach. If the ratio is 10 times more hot girls than Oslo or just the same does not matter at the end of the day, because at least it is possible to score in Kiev also when you are beyond 25 and an abdominal wash board. And while on the topic of quantification; it has been such a pleasant surprise to really get to know some females in Ukraine. Fantastic women. If I was not married, I would marry one (when I get 65).

B.

[QUOTE=Bimbo Boy;1302591]Yes, from the WebMD website : "The doctor may put a thin swab into the urethra and take a sample of fluid and cells to test for infections such as chlamydia or gonorrhea."[/QUOTE]This test is not for HIV but for other STDs.

Totally normal! Also not out of date. As some infections are located in the URETHRA and can be detected only like this.

- However, it is not the nicest exam (

[QUOTE=Bimbo Boy; 1302532]The beach on the opposite river bank of the Bora Bora club is a nude beach. You can admire kievan beauties in all their splendor!

But they don't like it if you watch them with your bathing suit on. You must be nude like everyone else.

It's only a 150m swim from the Bora Bora club to the other bank.

Next time, I'm at the Bora Bora club, I will bring a powerful zoom camera with me!

Regards.[/QUOTE]BB, is the nude beach allowed to single men, or is it like many nude beaches in Brasil that are only allowed to couples or women? If it's the case (allowed to single men) , isn't it crowded with maniaks? And could you locate it on a google map?

[QUOTE=Barba;1302236]As for looks I think Ukraine is not so extremely good as some claim. Yes there are MANY pretty girls and they do dress sexy, but visit Caracas, Paris, Milano, Oslo or Stockholm and it is just the same. Sex might be harder to find in these cities for the average sex tourist, but just the visual impression in Kiev or Kharkov is not that extremely good. A big portion of the girls have an ordinary or even crude EE look if you look above the tits. A pig in make-up is still a pig.[/QUOTE]I never noticed. My eyes rarely stray above their cleavage!

Seriously though, while there can be concentrations of stunning beauties in other cities, including the US (despite what all the guys on the "American Women" forum say) generally speaking these women are completely inaccessible to guys like us. A middle-aged monger trying to hit up (or even chat with) a 20-something stunner in Monaco or LA is not only going to get rejected with disdain, but will be treated (and made to feel like) a pervert or criminal.

As for the general beauty level of EE women, I remember going through the Frankfurt airport on my way to Kiev, and knowing I was near the right gate because I started to see more and more beautiful and well-dressed women, who I guess were heading home after shopping trips to Europe.

[QUOTE=Dellam; 1301356]Hey,

Do you know the name of the working girls at Rio?[/QUOTE]Olga, the blonde in the tight dress, third bar stool from the right. Can't miss her.

Seriously guy, the pro scene in Kiev, in any bar, is a constantly changing kaleidoscope.

Wannabe mongers going there, trying to connect with a particular WG are making things a lot harder than they need to be.

Walk in the bar, there will be numerous obvious pros and maybe some not so obvious ones.

Look them over, chat a few up, and make your choice. It is not that complicated.

Sure some bars or clubs will be better than others for WG or for regular girls, but within that room it is a busy market place. Deal with what is available there and then, not some preconceived notion of who you are going to hook up with!

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1302401]Not really fair to compare the streets of a poor city against major cultural business centers B. Most of the beautiful girls strolling the streets of your above mentioned Western cities are connected to the city center by work or family. A lot of the beauty found in Kiev has no reason to stroll the streets of K street or be around city center. You have to look at places where single women concentrate such as nightclubs. I personally have never seen so many beautiful single women as I did in D'Luxe and Skybar. I doubt places like Paris have nightclubs filled with such beautiful single women as in Kiev and if they did, they would never lay eyes on me.[/QUOTE]Hello agree with you. Howver, I wonder why prices in Ukraine in my opinion to high for the salary & prices level there? Who is making the business? I am quite sure not the WG. Therefore I do my best to pay the best value for my money and USD 100 for 3 hours is my proposal most of the times

[quote=sponsor74;1302943]howver, i wonder why prices in ukraine in my opinion to high for the salary & prices level there?[/quote]pussy is dirt cheap in kiev! however, you as a tourist with no language skills and grapevine can expect to pay western prices. i made one trip to kiev back in march and i met a 19 year old that agreed to come back to my place for $150 and perform fs and owo. the girl ended up being a porn star performer and stayed for hours at my place. i only fucked her once but with her basic english and my basic russian, we hit it off and she was sure that i was going to call her back. two days later, i called her and she comes over and later invites two of her friends to my apartment. she offers me a threesome between her and one of the other girls for $100 each. what happened next was actually quite a surprise. i like porn star experience but these girls basically proceeded to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] me. they were actually shoving my head between there legs forcing daty upon me. i always thought prostitutes could not create pussy juice until my face got covered in a layer of slime. both girls never paused during the session and every action performed was almost violent. i don't know how to describe it, but for the first time in my life i was actually sexed out. if somebody would have offered me free pussy the next day, i would have refused. the third girl that did not perform offered to come over in a couple of days for $100.

the point is that any of these girls would probably come over to my place at any time for even less than $100. you simply have to make some friends and do a little bit of work. unfortuneatly, many five day tourists never do the work and get ripped off at the obvious venues.

[quote=climaxnow;1302958].i like porn star experience but these girls basically proceeded to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] me. they were actually shoving my head between there legs forcing daty upon me. i always thought prostitutes could not create pussy juice until my face got covered in a layer of slime. both girls never paused during the session and every action performed was almost violent.[/quote]god, this sounds good. one of the more memorable moments in monger history. i love to dive in and slurp around. to have two teenage female [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord127][CodeWord127][/url] sitting on the face rubbing their juices until you are covered in slime got to be one of the ten best ways to spend an evening in kiev.

i think it can safely be established that:

- the best way to find good sex in ukraine is to have circle of friends that refer other friends to you. one way of opening such a circle is to spend some hours on mamba or some other social site. another way is to talk to females in normal situations such as restaurants, clubs or malls. a third way is to trust people and share contacts here with the ones that seem reasonably similar to yourself.

- a long term stay should never cost more than 100 usd, even if it lasts several hours and more than one pop. the first visit sometimes cost a little bit more, but once the trust is there, price slowly moves towards zero (but never reaches zero, even if you marry the girl). if a targets needs to be discussed, i would say it is maximum 50 usd / h also for the first encounter, but at the end of the day it is not the minutes but the experience that counts.

- the constant flow of questions and comments about rio is part of an elaborate scheme to maintain the weekly visual dosage of those three letters, and that take outs from such an over priced strip bar is not to be confused with wandering the exciting borderland between "semi-pros" and true magnificent girlfriend experiences (with a little help "for the taxi" when you kiss her goodbye). each man to his own, but it seems like for example germany is much better for a man that is just going for professional p4p services, and not for the girlfriend game.

last trip i learned that some girls will actually just go out anywhere to waste your money. for me it would be totally pointless, but for these greedy ego bitches it seems to be some sort of sport to make a man spend money on them. the ones who warned me about the travel girl with fancy pictures where naturally totally correct. she was a waste of time and money. it must have been the most expensive kisses and tits squeeze i had in years. in addition she was total boredom to talk to. and yes, she was of course the one that "invited" me to dante. lesson learned.

b.

You got to love the folks at the Kyiv Post. This link to an article in today's paper is one of the funniest I have read.

[url]http://www.kyivpost.com/content/lifestyle/couples-find-joys-of-erotic-massage.html[/url]

So now remember and show all you near and dear ones this article next time you head for a massage parlor. A happy ending at the hands of a good looking young thing after her breasts and most other body parts have been over most of your body and after you have caressed and groped her is still being faithful!

I hope the reporter posts his massage parlor experiences in this forum. Come on Denis, tell us all.

[QUOTE=Dellam; 1301356]Hey,

Do you know the name of the working girls at Rio?

Dellam[/QUOTE]What? All of them or the 3 I know?

met up with a girl i met on mamba before and traveled with. good nice girl, wants nothing from me but i help her out a bit. at the point of just doing it out of caring and not asking anything back but we will travel again.

buddha bar on friday, my favorite bar has become a sausage fest of old dudes. guys, i know you are looking for young ukranian pussy but your presence in your bald heads and white hair, bad clothes and running shoes, and plaid shirts over t-shirts. this is not helping the reputation of the bar and it's not bringing in the girls.

i counted 18 men at the bar and 0 girls on a friday night. rep001tered girls throughout the club in a 1 to 3 ratio with one guy in the seating areas. the one guy makes it impossible to enter in. not a single girl at the bar which is where they'd come "if available".

so honestly, this is the end for buddha bar. the internet killed it by attracting mongers who are just too old, too uninterested in putting in a minor amount of effort into their appearance. i mean hell, i feel bad going in there being associated with that, i can't imagine what the girls may feel.

this bar is certainly not what it used to be, and now, is no longer favorite bar.

went to dlux. lounge again had a 5 men to 1 ratio. a bourbon costs 220 grivna plus tip. don't know how long you want to hang out at that rate. a few girls straggled in but nobody that you wouldn't see anywhere else so no interest. fashion show thing upstairs, don't know what that was about or how it changed the dynamic. didn't try the dance floor, as i dance like a moron and that's not going to help me or the people watching me.

on other days, visited solid gold which was actually a really nice club. mostly empty, a few very beautiful girls, everyone can dance there and it's not crapped into a corner like millenium so you could come with friends and have a good time in a good atmosphere. two girls were 10s. everyone could dance, spoke english, and was friendly. a+.

went to rhino star in podol after the sausage fest fiasco in buddha bar, i think they should just convert over to a gay bar and say the hell with it, the internet has broken it for good. people reading this board and going there thinking they will get a 10/10 supermodel to come home with their 60 year old butt. no offense guys, i mean it out of love, but it is not happening and you are just bringing down the situation for everyone. not here. it's like going into the best places in thailand and the worst places in thailand. if you dress with a plaid shirt and t-shirt underneath and are completely bald with hiking shoes on, then you are bringing down the scene and the girls will go elsewhere. which they seem to have done.

ok i got ranting again. anyway rhino star is actually a super cool club, probably the nicest i've been to in the world.

girls are friendly, they are agressive on cue (during the dance special) otherwise will just come and ask you for a dance and honestly you should just go. sometimes it's 100 per song or 100 for two songs depending on the special.

the vast majority of the girls are 8 and over. bunch of 8s and 9s. happy, friendly, because probably they don't have to go home with old bald mongers (again, no offense, but reality is reality). buying them a drink is just the normal price for the drink, and they may sit happily with you for a drink, but if they get up for the washroom you will be set apon by some other dream girl and be tempted away. when you return your drinks will be there and then eventually the girl you bought the drink for returns.

unlike other crap places in this city where it's just about getting the money out of your wallet.

it's basically a great strip club. not a take home thing, so maybe not your thing, but you can go out, get loaded, get some really good dances from some very hot girls who are actually also nice people and will be nice to you with out any fakery. keep in mind it's still a job and once you're broke you should expect them to move on, same as you would move on from a broke client. but until then there's very little fake and you'll enjoy it.

so, in summary,

this website broke buddha bar, it's useless unless you want to hang around with groups of high 20s men "who read on the internet hot girls are here" or you want to sit at the bar with a bunch of guys with no hair or white hair with rotating heads.

there still are a handful of beautiful girls, two walked by that the entire bar tracked with their eyes, tall and beautiful, but it is not the same bar as it was one year ago.

solid gold was good, millenium is a super inflated clip joint with a few nice girls, dlux has some eye candy but unsure how to access it, star rhino is a great club if you just want a great strip club experience (even got me a cab and i paid local rates to get home).

buddha bar is over.

the girls are gone unless you bring them yourself.

male to female ratio is blown out of the water. a bar filled with bald, bad dressed men, ages 50-70, kills everything.

after that happens its all over.

seriously guys, if you hit that point, you have to accept a little bit of reality about what you are going to access and your methods for doing it. you will not be pulling them down at the hot club. in my opinion. not here, not with these girls, and not in this city. there is some leeway in age. 24 to 42 is going to work. but you better wear good clothes, stay in shape, and be a reasonable beacon of success. looking like you're going to go cut the grass in the back yard, being 55+, that kills it. i am repeating myself. i am sad to see a good thing die.

it was so in walking distance from where i wanted to be and now everything is changed for me because of this sausage fest from hell.

[QUOTE=Uke Boy;1303515]You got to love the folks at the Kyiv Post. This link to an article in today's paper is one of the funniest I have read.[/QUOTE]'A married man wants diverse sex but he doesn't want to betray his wife. So she comes with him and participates in an erotic session. Thus it is not unfaithfulness. ' LOL. Irrational and perfect. A respected institution is working towards legalization. A few business partners I talked to thought that a legalization of prostitution and marijuana was not very distant in Ukraine. It is still considered immoral by parts of society, and many business minded policemen have a lot to loose on a legalization, but most people I talked to seemed surprisingly pragmatic about it all. And one girl told me that the Dutch where allowed to bring in weed to Kharkiv for EURO2012. Sounds strange but she was dead certain and still baked from all the puffing she participated in.

B.

[quote=protocol; 1303740]met up with a girl i met on mamba before and traveled with. good nice girl, wants nothing from me but i help her out a bit. at the point of just doing it out of caring and not asking anything back but we will travel again.

buddha bar on friday, my favorite bar has become a sausage fest of old dudes. guys, i know you are looking for young ukranian pussy but your presence in your bald heads and white hair, bad clothes and running shoes, and plaid shirts over t-shirts. this is not helping the reputation of the bar and it's not bringing in the girls.

i counted 18 men at the bar and 0 girls on a friday night. rep001tered girls throughout the club in a 1 to 3 ratio with one guy in the seating areas. the one guy makes it impossible to enter in. not a single girl at the bar which is where they'd come "if available".

so honestly, this is the end for buddha bar. the internet killed it by attracting mongers who are just too old, too uninterested in putting in a minor amount of effort into their appearance. i mean hell, i feel bad going in there being associated with that, i can't imagine what the girls may feel.

this bar is certainly not what it used to be, and now, is no longer favorite bar.

went to dlux. lounge again had a 5 men to 1 ratio. a bourbon costs 220 grivna plus tip. don't know how long you want to hang out at that rate. a few girls straggled in but nobody that you wouldn't see anywhere else so no interest. fashion show thing upstairs, don't know what that was about or how it changed the dynamic. didn't try the dance floor, as i dance like a moron and that's not going to help me or the people watching me.

on other days, visited solid gold which was actually a really nice club. mostly empty, a few very beautiful girls, everyone can dance there and it's not crapped into a corner like millenium so you could come with friends and have a good time in a good atmosphere. two girls were 10s. everyone could dance, spoke english, and was friendly. a+.

went to rhino star in podol after the sausage fest fiasco in buddha bar, i think they should just convert over to a gay bar and say the hell with it, the internet has broken it for good. people reading this board and going there thinking they will get a 10/10 supermodel to come home with their 60 year old butt. no offense guys, i mean it out of love, but it is not happening and you are just bringing down the situation for everyone. not here. it's like going into the best places in thailand and the worst places in thailand. if you dress with a plaid shirt and t-shirt underneath and are completely bald with hiking shoes on, then you are bringing down the scene and the girls will go elsewhere. which they seem to have done.

ok i got ranting again. anyway rhino star is actually a super cool club, probably the nicest i've been to in the world.

girls are friendly, they are agressive on cue (during the dance special) otherwise will just come and ask you for a dance and honestly you should just go. sometimes it's 100 per song or 100 for two songs depending on the special.

the vast majority of the girls are 8 and over. bunch of 8s and 9s. happy, friendly, because probably they don't have to go home with old bald mongers (again, no offense, but reality is reality). buying them a drink is just the normal price for the drink, and they may sit happily with you for a drink, but if they get up for the washroom you will be set apon by some other dream girl and be tempted away. when you return your drinks will be there and then eventually the girl you bought the drink for returns.

unlike other crap places in this city where it's just about getting the money out of your wallet.

it's basically a great strip club. not a take home thing, so maybe not your thing, but you can go out, get loaded, get some really good dances from some very hot girls who are actually also nice people and will be nice to you with out any fakery. keep in mind it's still a job and once you're broke you should expect them to move on, same as you would move on from a broke client. but until then there's very little fake and you'll enjoy it.

so, in summary,

this website broke buddha bar, it's useless unless you want to hang around with groups of high 20s men "who read on the internet hot girls are here" or you want to sit at the bar with a bunch of guys with no hair or white hair with rotating heads.

there still are a handful of beautiful girls, two walked by that the entire bar tracked with their eyes, tall and beautiful, but it is not the same bar as it was one year ago.

solid gold was good, millenium is a super inflated clip joint with a few nice girls, dlux has some eye candy but unsure how to access it, star rhino is a great club if you just want a great strip club experience (even got me a cab and i paid local rates to get home).

buddha bar is over.

the girls are gone unless you bring them yourself.

male to female ratio is blown out of the water. a bar filled with bald, bad dressed men, ages 50-70, kills everything.

after that happens its all over.

seriously guys, if you hit that point, you have to accept a little bit of reality about what you are going to access and your methods for doing it. you will not be pulling them down at the hot club. in my opinion. not here, not with these girls, and not in this city. there is some leeway in age. 24 to 42 is going to work. but you better wear good clothes, stay in shape, and be a reasonable beacon of success. looking like you're going to go cut the grass in the back yard, being 55+, that kills it. i am repeating myself. i am sad to see a good thing die.

it was so in walking distance from where i wanted to be and now everything is changed for me because of this sausage fest from hell.[/quote]hi protocol,

thank you very much for your useful information.

but, why didn't you visit rio strip club (the most popular strip club in this thread)?

have you ever visited there?

how do you think about rio?

thanks in advance.

I was contacted by a girls from outside Kiev and asked if I wanted her to come to meet me at my upcoming trip to Kiev. I was mostly interested in some company during my staying there and offered USD500, beside expenses, for 2 whole days.

Was I totaly out of the line cheap?

As I see it I have no problem to find just no-sex company for 2 days in Kiev for free, besides dinner, cost for activities and so on. If I want sex I have no problem to find this for maximun USD100 / hour and I will for sure not have sex for more than 5 hours during 2 days. Most of my visits in Kiev I don't search for sex at all but just some nice company.

USD500 is probably also half a months salary there. Good for 2 days in my eyes for just spending time with a nice company.

I was contacted by a girl from outside Kiev and asked if I wanted her to come and meet me at my upcoming trip to Kiev. I was mostly interested in some company during my staying there and offered USD500, beside expenses, for 2 whole days.

Was I totaly out of the line cheap?

As I see it I have no problem to find just no-sex company for 2 days in Kiev for free, besides dinner, cost for activities and so on. If I want sex I have no problem to find this for maximun USD100 / hour and I will for sure not have sex for more than 5 hours during 2 days. Most of my visits in Kiev I don't search for sex at all but just some nice company.

USD500 is probably also half a months salary there. Good for 2 days in my eyes for just spending time with a nice company.

[QUOTE=Tuggen; 1304273]I was contacted by a girl from outside Kiev and asked if I wanted her to come and meet me at my upcoming trip to Kiev. I was mostly interested in some company during my staying there and offered USD500, beside expenses, for 2 whole days.

Was I totaly out of the line cheap?

As I see it I have no problem to find just no-sex company for 2 days in Kiev for free, besides dinner, cost for activities and so on. If I want sex I have no problem to find this for maximun USD100 / hour and I will for sure not have sex for more than 5 hours during 2 days. Most of my visits in Kiev I don't search for sex at all but just some nice company.

USD500 is probably also half a months salary there. Good for 2 days in my eyes for just spending time with a nice company.[/QUOTE]So what you are basically offering this girl is about ten dollars an hour and all the risks involved with strangers as travel companions. Your not cheap, just naive.

Has anybody noticed a spike in email contact with girls you may know out East? Girls that stopped replying to me have suddenly resurrected themselves from the grave with enthusiasm. Maybe just a fluke, but maybe a sign of things to come.

Who says the collapse of the European economy would be a bad thing? (Smiley)

[QUOTE=Tuggen; 1304273]I was contacted by a girl from outside Kiev and asked if I wanted her to come and meet me at my upcoming trip to Kiev. I was mostly interested in some company during my staying there and offered USD500, beside expenses, for 2 whole days.

Was I totaly out of the line cheap?

As I see it I have no problem to find just no-sex company for 2 days in Kiev for free, besides dinner, cost for activities and so on. If I want sex I have no problem to find this for maximun USD100 / hour and I will for sure not have sex for more than 5 hours during 2 days. Most of my visits in Kiev I don't search for sex at all but just some nice company.

USD500 is probably also half a months salary there. Good for 2 days in my eyes for just spending time with a nice company.[/QUOTE]Very few pro cent of people in Ukraine and Kiev make so much as 500USD per moth salary. Few dievs that are friends of my, tell me a lot about situation and how real life in Kiev is. 500 USD for province girl is huge!

[QUOTE=Tomux 22;1304463]Very few pro cent of people in Ukraine and Kiev make so much as 500USD per moth salary. Few dievs that are friends of my, tell me a lot about situation and how real life in Kiev is. 500 USD for province girl is huge![/QUOTE]This is not an easy topic. But I agree with you egarding USD 500. Moreover, some people with a job and work hard for this money and at the end of the month the company can not / don't want to ay the salaries

[QUOTE=Tuggen; 1304273]I was contacted by a girl from outside Kiev and asked if I wanted her to come and meet me at my upcoming trip to Kiev. I was mostly interested in some company during my staying there and offered USD500, beside expenses, for 2 whole days.

Was I totaly out of the line cheap?

As I see it I have no problem to find just no-sex company for 2 days in Kiev for free, besides dinner, cost for activities and so on. If I want sex I have no problem to find this for maximun USD100 / hour and I will for sure not have sex for more than 5 hours during 2 days. Most of my visits in Kiev I don't search for sex at all but just some nice company.

USD500 is probably also half a months salary there. Good for 2 days in my eyes for just spending time with a nice company.[/QUOTE]This really is probably a months salary in a normal job, so for two days work she makes a months income. I really think that is enough. For you that is not much, but for her that is quite a lot.

It really is silly to pay too much or to think that girls deserve loads of money for two days of sex and companionship. I disagree with people who said this was cheap, $10 an hour would be a royal salary in the Ukraine and she gets paid for sleeping and being wined and dined.

[QUOTE=Tomux 22;1304463]Very few pro cent of people in Ukraine and Kiev make so much as 500USD per moth salary. Few dievs that are friends of my, tell me a lot about situation and how real life in Kiev is. 500 USD for province girl is huge![/QUOTE]I understand the concept of a monger traveling to a town and negotiating p4p. Girl meets a guy on the street, feels him out, they negotiate to have sex for an hour for $100 at his place. No big deal, no real risk to anyone.

However, the idea of some girl traveling to a distant location to meet a stranger and get paid $500 for two days sound like a poor business decision. Suppose the guy just walks away upon meeting, not to mention the other 100 things that could go wrong with this arrangement. Better to sell your pussy through an escort agency for a couple of hours than waste 48 hours trapped with a scrooge.

Once again the fine members of this thread have done an excellent job commoditizing pussy. Something that is basically free in Ukraine if you have the time and money to look for it.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow; 1304478]I understand the concept of a monger traveling to a town and negotiating p4p. Girl meets a guy on the street, feels him out, they negotiate to have sex for an hour for $100 at his place. No big deal, no real risk to anyone.

However, the idea of some girl traveling to a distant location to meet a stranger and get paid $500 for two days sound like a poor business decision. Suppose the guy just walks away upon meeting, not to mention the other 100 things that could go wrong with this arrangement. Better to sell your pussy through an escort agency for a couple of hours than waste 48 hours trapped with a scrooge.

Once again the fine members of this thread have done an excellent job commoditizing pussy. Something that is basically free in Ukraine if you have the time and money to look for it.[/QUOTE]I really do not understand your answer. The vast majority of this forum is dedicated to pay for play Q & A. He asked if he had paid enough? There are many people who argue that many mongers pay far too much. And with respect to that questions, local salaries should factor into the decision making matrix. She gets a months salary for two days work. If having sex with our prospective buyer such a dreadful thought then she can refuse up front and then go away and the cost of her travel is her only loss and the risk of this business venture. Have you had to take risks with money I certainly have.

Secondly she can ask for the entire payment or half of it up front. What do you mean by "commoditizing the cost", this is about pay for play and I really do not understand how you arrive at such a lofty moralistic answer.

Look do not get me wrong, I am American, proudly so, but live in London. I think many Americans have to pay so much for poor quality in the US, that they wonder if $500 for a weekend in the Ukraine is too little, it really shouldn't be.

From what I have read of Rio, it is far more expensive than a German FKK, why should it be?

Ideally you should look for it, nothing is truly free, but you should look for it and not have to pay. I have this strategy in certain situations but sometimes I want quick results. And I am quite certain you have paid for sex by reading your reports, so where does "Once again the fine members of this thread have done an excellent job commoditizing pussy. Something that is basically free in Ukraine if you have the time and money to look for it" this comment come from? If you take this any further then you can argue that every girl who has to sell sex is a harmless victim and all her clients are horrible criminals, that is the rationale behind femi nazi laws in Sweden and Norway. However from your experience, and at least from mine, we know that in actuality girls willingly do this to earn a lot of money quickly and are far from victims in the equation. So the only issue is how much should one pay, and the going rate in Ukraine is far higher than it should be given the level of average income in the country. I was discussing this with someone over a PM, Ukraine is far too expensive compared to much wealthier countries like the the Czech Republic.

This forum is essentially about, but not exclusively so, about pay for play.

[QUOTE=Delta Indigo;1304486]This forum is essentially about, but not exclusively so, about pay for play.[/QUOTE]Not so. It is about where to find girls. No matter the means. Some guys use their wallet, some others use their "game". Some guys are strictly P4P players, some others like to date, woo and charm. Some guys enjoy solely being with pros, some others consider that pro sex and freebie sex can't be compared. It's not a pissing contest though. As usual, to each its own.

protocol, i was in buddha bar in may and definetely i don't agree with you, yes is true there was some man over 50 but i don't see any problem on it, was full of beautifoul girls and they can choose with whom they want to go, if a man agree because i listen some price that are out of the world.

i'm 36 so not in the age that you are speaking about but i think that if a man is over 50 can go to buddha bar or any other place without problem and i don't think business lady run away for it. is the opposite, very often they pay more and spend more time in chat than in sex and this is what business lady want, or you think they come with you for your young age and nice dress?

[quote=protocol; 1303740]met up with a girl i met on mamba before and traveled with. good nice girl, wants nothing from me but i help her out a bit. at the point of just doing it out of caring and not asking anything back but we will travel again.

buddha bar on friday, my favorite bar has become a sausage fest of old dudes. guys, i know you are looking for young ukranian pussy but your presence in your bald heads and white hair, bad clothes and running shoes, and plaid shirts over t-shirts. this is not helping the reputation of the bar and it's not bringing in the girls.

i counted 18 men at the bar and 0 girls on a friday night. rep001tered girls throughout the club in a 1 to 3 ratio with one guy in the seating areas. the one guy makes it impossible to enter in. not a single girl at the bar which is where they'd come "if available".

so honestly, this is the end for buddha bar. the internet killed it by attracting mongers who are just too old, too uninterested in putting in a minor amount of effort into their appearance. i mean hell, i feel bad going in there being associated with that, i can't imagine what the girls may feel.

this bar is certainly not what it used to be, and now, is no longer favorite bar.

went to dlux. lounge again had a 5 men to 1 ratio. a bourbon costs 220 grivna plus tip. don't know how long you want to hang out at that rate. a few girls straggled in but nobody that you wouldn't see anywhere else so no interest. fashion show thing upstairs, don't know what that was about or how it changed the dynamic. didn't try the dance floor, as i dance like a moron and that's not going to help me or the people watching me.

on other days, visited solid gold which was actually a really nice club. mostly empty, a few very beautiful girls, everyone can dance there and it's not crapped into a corner like millenium so you could come with friends and have a good time in a good atmosphere. two girls were 10s. everyone could dance, spoke english, and was friendly. a+.

went to rhino star in podol after the sausage fest fiasco in buddha bar, i think they should just convert over to a gay bar and say the hell with it, the internet has broken it for good. people reading this board and going there thinking they will get a 10/10 supermodel to come home with their 60 year old butt. no offense guys, i mean it out of love, but it is not happening and you are just bringing down the situation for everyone. not here. it's like going into the best places in thailand and the worst places in thailand. if you dress with a plaid shirt and t-shirt underneath and are completely bald with hiking shoes on, then you are bringing down the scene and the girls will go elsewhere. which they seem to have done.

ok i got ranting again. anyway rhino star is actually a super cool club, probably the nicest i've been to in the world.

girls are friendly, they are agressive on cue (during the dance special) otherwise will just come and ask you for a dance and honestly you should just go. sometimes it's 100 per song or 100 for two songs depending on the special.

the vast majority of the girls are 8 and over. bunch of 8s and 9s. happy, friendly, because probably they don't have to go home with old bald mongers (again, no offense, but reality is reality). buying them a drink is just the normal price for the drink, and they may sit happily with you for a drink, but if they get up for the washroom you will be set apon by some other dream girl and be tempted away. when you return your drinks will be there and then eventually the girl you bought the drink for returns.

unlike other crap places in this city where it's just about getting the money out of your wallet.

it's basically a great strip club. not a take home thing, so maybe not your thing, but you can go out, get loaded, get some really good dances from some very hot girls who are actually also nice people and will be nice to you with out any fakery. keep in mind it's still a job and once you're broke you should expect them to move on, same as you would move on from a broke client. but until then there's very little fake and you'll enjoy it.

so, in summary,

this website broke buddha bar, it's useless unless you want to hang around with groups of high 20s men "who read on the internet hot girls are here" or you want to sit at the bar with a bunch of guys with no hair or white hair with rotating heads.

there still are a handful of beautiful girls, two walked by that the entire bar tracked with their eyes, tall and beautiful, but it is not the same bar as it was one year ago.

solid gold was good, millenium is a super inflated clip joint with a few nice girls, dlux has some eye candy but unsure how to access it, star rhino is a great club if you just want a great strip club experience (even got me a cab and i paid local rates to get home).

buddha bar is over.

the girls are gone unless you bring them yourself.

male to female ratio is blown out of the water. a bar filled with bald, bad dressed men, ages 50-70, kills everything.

after that happens its all over.

seriously guys, if you hit that point, you have to accept a little bit of reality about what you are going to access and your methods for doing it. you will not be pulling them down at the hot club. in my opinion. not here, not with these girls, and not in this city. there is some leeway in age. 24 to 42 is going to work. but you better wear good clothes, stay in shape, and be a reasonable beacon of success. looking like you're going to go cut the grass in the back yard, being 55+, that kills it. i am repeating myself. i am sad to see a good thing die.

it was so in walking distance from where i wanted to be and now everything is changed for me because of this sausage fest from hell.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Prosal;1304630]Not so. It is about where to find girls. No matter the means. Some guys use their wallet, some others use their "game". Some guys are strictly P4P players, some others like to date, woo and charm. Some guys enjoy solely being with pros, some others consider that pro sex and freebie sex can't be compared. It's not a pissing contest though. As usual, to each its own.[/QUOTE]Look I do understand that each person has his own approach and is free to express his preferred methods, in fact I like reading the reports about Freebies and how to get them and how women are in each society. Russia, Brazil and Argentina and so on.

However a comment like "Once again the fine members of this thread have done an excellent job commoditizing pussy" is really not appropriate given the fact this this web site is really not morally opposed to P4P.

This website is not a moralistic forum about how appropriate paying for sex is, most members almost all, would agree that you pay in some way.

I am really not one who has to pay, in fact the most gorgeous girls I slept with were for free. But a moralistic attitude to P4P is not relevant for this forum.

The long explanation from me about this should really not have been necessary.

[QUOTE=Delta Indigo;1304746]However a comment like "Once again the fine members of this thread have done an excellent job commoditizing pussy" is really not appropriate given the fact this this web site is really not morally opposed to P4P.[/QUOTE]My statement has absolutely nothing to do with morals. I won't explain.

thank you for the report but i think it's more about summer time. top girls from dlux and buddha bar have (most of them) visa so you will find them now in turkey, egypt or dubai. i'm in contact with many girls from mamba and now you can see that they changed their city they come from kiev to dubai, antalya or hurghada. most of my friends from kiev are in holidays as well. so i guess it will be better to go during the summer to places like vodka bar (for discos) or rio (for strip clubs) because (besides of the top girls there too) they have to work because they do not have big sponsors or visa.

totally the same like this in germany right now! all the fkk clubs are empty because they went home to their families or for vacation. but the average girls are still in the clubs.

i will be back in kiev this thursday and will report again from maidan boat, rio, buddha bar, avalon, sky bar, massage salons and some other spots.

[quote=protocol; 1303740]met up with a girl i met on mamba before and traveled with. good nice girl, wants nothing from me but i help her out a bit. at the point of just doing it out of caring and not asking anything back but we will travel again.

buddha bar on friday, my favorite bar has become a sausage fest of old dudes. guys, i know you are looking for young ukranian pussy but your presence in your bald heads and white hair, bad clothes and running shoes, and plaid shirts over t-shirts. this is not helping the reputation of the bar and it's not bringing in the girls.

i counted 18 men at the bar and 0 girls on a friday night. rep001tered girls throughout the club in a 1 to 3 ratio with one guy in the seating areas. the one guy makes it impossible to enter in. not a single girl at the bar which is where they'd come "if available".

so honestly, this is the end for buddha bar. the internet killed it by attracting mongers who are just too old, too uninterested in putting in a minor amount of effort into their appearance. i mean hell, i feel bad going in there being associated with that, i can't imagine what the girls may feel.

this bar is certainly not what it used to be, and now, is no longer favorite bar.

went to dlux. lounge again had a 5 men to 1 ratio. a bourbon costs 220 grivna plus tip. don't know how long you want to hang out at that rate. a few girls straggled in but nobody that you wouldn't see anywhere else so no interest. fashion show thing upstairs, don't know what that was about or how it changed the dynamic. didn't try the dance floor, as i dance like a moron and that's not going to help me or the people watching me.

on other days, visited solid gold which was actually a really nice club. mostly empty, a few very beautiful girls, everyone can dance there and it's not crapped into a corner like millenium so you could come with friends and have a good time in a good atmosphere. two girls were 10s. everyone could dance, spoke english, and was friendly. a+.

went to rhino star in podol after the sausage fest fiasco in buddha bar, i think they should just convert over to a gay bar and say the hell with it, the internet has broken it for good. people reading this board and going there thinking they will get a 10/10 supermodel to come home with their 60 year old butt. no offense guys, i mean it out of love, but it is not happening and you are just bringing down the situation for everyone. not here. it's like going into the best places in thailand and the worst places in thailand. if you dress with a plaid shirt and t-shirt underneath and are completely bald with hiking shoes on, then you are bringing down the scene and the girls will go elsewhere. which they seem to have done.

ok i got ranting again. anyway rhino star is actually a super cool club, probably the nicest i've been to in the world.

girls are friendly, they are agressive on cue (during the dance special) otherwise will just come and ask you for a dance and honestly you should just go. sometimes it's 100 per song or 100 for two songs depending on the special.

the vast majority of the girls are 8 and over. bunch of 8s and 9s. happy, friendly, because probably they don't have to go home with old bald mongers (again, no offense, but reality is reality). buying them a drink is just the normal price for the drink, and they may sit happily with you for a drink, but if they get up for the washroom you will be set apon by some other dream girl and be tempted away. when you return your drinks will be there and then eventually the girl you bought the drink for returns.

unlike other crap places in this city where it's just about getting the money out of your wallet.

it's basically a great strip club. not a take home thing, so maybe not your thing, but you can go out, get loaded, get some really good dances from some very hot girls who are actually also nice people and will be nice to you with out any fakery. keep in mind it's still a job and once you're broke you should expect them to move on, same as you would move on from a broke client. but until then there's very little fake and you'll enjoy it.

so, in summary,

this website broke buddha bar, it's useless unless you want to hang around with groups of high 20s men "who read on the internet hot girls are here" or you want to sit at the bar with a bunch of guys with no hair or white hair with rotating heads.

there still are a handful of beautiful girls, two walked by that the entire bar tracked with their eyes, tall and beautiful, but it is not the same bar as it was one year ago.

solid gold was good, millenium is a super inflated clip joint with a few nice girls, dlux has some eye candy but unsure how to access it, star rhino is a great club if you just want a great strip club experience (even got me a cab and i paid local rates to get home).

buddha bar is over.

the girls are gone unless you bring them yourself.

male to female ratio is blown out of the water. a bar filled with bald, bad dressed men, ages 50-70, kills everything.

after that happens its all over.

seriously guys, if you hit that point, you have to accept a little bit of reality about what you are going to access and your methods for doing it. you will not be pulling them down at the hot club. in my opinion. not here, not with these girls, and not in this city. there is some leeway in age. 24 to 42 is going to work. but you better wear good clothes, stay in shape, and be a reasonable beacon of success. looking like you're going to go cut the grass in the back yard, being 55+, that kills it. i am repeating myself. i am sad to see a good thing die.

it was so in walking distance from where i wanted to be and now everything is changed for me because of this sausage fest from hell.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1304754]My statement has absolutely nothing to do with morals. I won't explain.[/QUOTE]Then what does your statement have to do with?

Assertions like "the girl is taking massive risks and you should be aware of this" these are moralistic assertions, she can refuse of couse or not take the risk.

"This might be a poor buisness proposition" is entirely a value judgement.

I really don't mean to single you out, I think you are a nice guy. But this forum in particular has had many silly things said in it, (NOT AT ALL BY YOU BUT BY ANOTHER PERSON)

But this is simple logic, of course you made a moral judgement. The questioner should not have asked if he is being too cheap, if she agrees he was not.

So he should not have asked, he should have only asked about the going rate.

PEACE PEACE PEACE PEACE.

I like you Climax Now and I think you are a nice guy.

But I mean should we respond that way and I do not MEAN YOU ONLY. In fact you were okay, the person before who mentioned $10 an hour drew my attention.

When we decide how much we pay, we should factor in the average wage in the country, should we not?

$500 for a weekend is generous in the Ukraine.

CLIMAX NOW, going for freebies is the best and we should all aim for this as an ideal and I agree with you about this.

But can we give the questioner a break? Many others have criticised him and I direct this mainly to them and not you.

[QUOTE=Mr Punter;1302207]You are certainly not alone here. Nice to see such honest reports. The truth is that the girls in Kiev are getting spoilt by the hour by so many men trying to hunt them from far and wide. Agreed the girls in Ukraine are one amongst the best looking but of late the demand for them is outweighing the supply. Still maybe true that Ukraine is an easier hunting ground than anywhere in europe. I too have started to feel that the rewards one gets in Kiev is certainly not worth the amount of effort required. The girls in mamba and night clubs all have an agenda period.[/QUOTE]I have to call you on that one. Where is the evidence of demand outstripping supply? Girls on Mamba are actually quoting lower prices! Euro 2012 wasn't the shag fest they expected and as there are sooooo many more prostitutes than tourists in this city, the prices are aimed more at locals. Sure if you go to the sex tourist traps and do little homework, you'll pay through the nose. Almost all girls are I've chatted to on Mamba recently (today) are charging 500 uah for an hour. Try it and see. People have been saying that girls here are getting more and more spoiled since I arrived several years ago. Actually, prices have decreased. If they haven't for you, you're doing something wrong. However, everyone sees the world differently.

[QUOTE=Delta Indigo; 1304811]Then what does your statement have to do with?

Assertions like "the girl is taking massive risks and you should be aware of this" these are moralistic assertions, she can refuse of couse or not take the risk.

"This might be a poor buisness proposition" is entirely a value judgement.

I really don't mean to single you out, I think you are a nice guy. But this forum in particular has had many silly things said in it, (NOT AT ALL BY YOU BUT BY ANOTHER PERSON)

But this is simple logic, of course you made a moral judgement. The questioner should not have asked if he is being too cheap, if she agrees he was not.

So he should not have asked, he should have only asked about the going rate.

PEACE PEACE PEACE PEACE.

I like you Climax Now and I think you are a nice guy.

But I mean should we respond that way and I do not MEAN YOU ONLY. In fact you were okay, the person before who mentioned $10 an hour drew my attention.

When we decide how much we pay, we should factor in the average wage in the country, should we not?

$500 for a weekend is generous in the Ukraine.

CLIMAX NOW, going for freebies is the best and we should all aim for this as an ideal and I agree with you about this.

But can we give the questioner a break? Many others have criticised him and I direct this mainly to them and not you.[/QUOTE]The notion that pussy can be broken down to a bushel of soybeans where everything is equal, completely disregards the personal nature of all sexual activity by women. You take it for granted all mongers are equal when in fact they are not. Prostitution is a business like any other where risk greatly increase as you stray from norm. Forty eight hours seems like a long time not to be accounted for. Prostitutes will count every hour they are with you even when sleeping. How is $10 an hour generous?

It seems more realistic to me if this guy could find the girl in her hometown and fuck her for an hour for $100. All nice and basically risk free. Once the girl actually knows him, than he can offer her his $10 an hour deal along with any other positives he brings as a monger.

If you guys are finding girls that will stay with you for 48 hrs for $500 and have sex, could you please pm me there numbers. I am really doing my best to learn Russian and the pillow talk sounds like a great tool to reach fluency.

[QUOTE=Protocol; 1303740]Buddha Bar on Friday, my favorite bar has become a SAUSAGE FEST OF OLD DUDES. Guys, I know you are looking for young ukranian pussy but your presence in your bald heads and white hair, bad clothes and running shoes, and plaid shirts over t-shirts. This is not helping the reputation of the bar and it's not bringing in the girls.

So honestly, this is the end for Buddha bar. The internet killed it by attracting mongers who are just too old, too uninterested in putting in a minor amount of effort into their appearance. I mean hell, I feel bad going in there being associated with that, I can't imagine what the girls may feel.[/QUOTE]What's your plan for the time you will become older and bolder?

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1304826]If you guys are finding girls that will stay with you for 48 hrs for $500 and have sex, could you please pm me there numbers. I am really doing my best to learn Russian and the pillow talk sounds like a great tool to reach fluency.[/QUOTE]CN, I know that you know that there are thousands of woman on the social sites that you do not need to pay anything to have pillow talk with. I did not spend so many days in Ukraine but have a "girlfriend" in a couple of cities, and well on my way to a secondary girlfriend in one (god she is hot). I like P4P for variation and girlfriend (s) for pillow talk and morning sex.

Flying from Kharkov to Kiev I met two girls that where going to Georgia for vacation. They where older. Approaching 30 but one was very hot, but a superb ass and juicy heavy tits that bounced around in her little blouse as she was jumping around in her seat. She used to be a model and had a masters in electronics. After just some 30 minutes it was agreed that we would travel to Rome together for a weekend of sightseeing and "fun". They worked hard to get me to stay and take the flight to Georgia with them, but I had no time. Giggly and relaxed girls, that liked to flirt, but I doubt that I will see them again. I prefer girls around 20 but it seems like meeting females above 25 is very easy in Ukraine. I am starting to love this country.

B.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow; 1304826]The notion that pussy can be broken down to a bushel of soybeans where everything is equal, completely disregards the personal nature of all sexual activity by women. You take it for granted all mongers are equal when in fact they are not. Prostitution is a business like any other where risk greatly increase as you stray from norm. Forty eight hours seems like a long time not to be accounted for. Prostitutes will count every hour they are with you even when sleeping. How is $10 an hour generous?

It seems more realistic to me if this guy could find the girl in her hometown and fuck her for an hour for $100. All nice and basically risk free. Once the girl actually knows him, than he can offer her his $10 an hour deal along with any other positives he brings as a monger.

If you guys are finding girls that will stay with you for 48 hrs for $500 and have sex, could you please pm me there numbers. I am really doing my best to learn Russian and the pillow talk sounds like a great tool to reach fluency.[/QUOTE]By the way, I just took a look at Gia's basic pricing scheme. One hour costs $200. 48 hrs cost $2500 at Gia. Somehow you reasoned one fifth of standard Western pricing was fair. Under this reasoning, you should be paying about $40 for one hour of FS. Good luck with that! Send them my way if you can find um!

[quote=protocol; 1303740]met up with a girl i met on mamba before and traveled with. good nice girl, wants nothing from me but i help her out a bit. at the point of just doing it out of caring and not asking anything back but we will travel again.

buddha bar on friday, my favorite bar has become a sausage fest of old dudes. guys, i know you are looking for young ukranian pussy but your presence in your bald heads and white hair, bad clothes and running shoes, and plaid shirts over t-shirts. this is not helping the reputation of the bar and it's not bringing in the girls.

i counted 18 men at the bar and 0 girls on a friday night. rep001tered girls throughout the club in a 1 to 3 ratio with one guy in the seating areas. the one guy makes it impossible to enter in. not a single girl at the bar which is where they'd come "if available".

so honestly, this is the end for buddha bar. the internet killed it by attracting mongers who are just too old, too uninterested in putting in a minor amount of effort into their appearance. i mean hell, i feel bad going in there being associated with that, i can't imagine what the girls may feel.

this bar is certainly not what it used to be, and now, is no longer favorite bar.

went to dlux. lounge again had a 5 men to 1 ratio. a bourbon costs 220 grivna plus tip. don't know how long you want to hang out at that rate. a few girls straggled in but nobody that you wouldn't see anywhere else so no interest. fashion show thing upstairs, don't know what that was about or how it changed the dynamic. didn't try the dance floor, as i dance like a moron and that's not going to help me or the people watching me.

on other days, visited solid gold which was actually a really nice club. mostly empty, a few very beautiful girls, everyone can dance there and it's not crapped into a corner like millenium so you could come with friends and have a good time in a good atmosphere. two girls were 10s. everyone could dance, spoke english, and was friendly. a+.

went to rhino star in podol after the sausage fest fiasco in buddha bar, i think they should just convert over to a gay bar and say the hell with it, the internet has broken it for good. people reading this board and going there thinking they will get a 10/10 supermodel to come home with their 60 year old butt. no offense guys, i mean it out of love, but it is not happening and you are just bringing down the situation for everyone. not here. it's like going into the best places in thailand and the worst places in thailand. if you dress with a plaid shirt and t-shirt underneath and are completely bald with hiking shoes on, then you are bringing down the scene and the girls will go elsewhere. which they seem to have done.

ok i got ranting again. anyway rhino star is actually a super cool club, probably the nicest i've been to in the world.

girls are friendly, they are agressive on cue (during the dance special) otherwise will just come and ask you for a dance and honestly you should just go. sometimes it's 100 per song or 100 for two songs depending on the special.

the vast majority of the girls are 8 and over. bunch of 8s and 9s. happy, friendly, because probably they don't have to go home with old bald mongers (again, no offense, but reality is reality). buying them a drink is just the normal price for the drink, and they may sit happily with you for a drink, but if they get up for the washroom you will be set apon by some other dream girl and be tempted away. when you return your drinks will be there and then eventually the girl you bought the drink for returns.

unlike other crap places in this city where it's just about getting the money out of your wallet.

it's basically a great strip club. not a take home thing, so maybe not your thing, but you can go out, get loaded, get some really good dances from some very hot girls who are actually also nice people and will be nice to you with out any fakery. keep in mind it's still a job and once you're broke you should expect them to move on, same as you would move on from a broke client. but until then there's very little fake and you'll enjoy it.

so, in summary,

this website broke buddha bar, it's useless unless you want to hang around with groups of high 20s men "who read on the internet hot girls are here" or you want to sit at the bar with a bunch of guys with no hair or white hair with rotating heads.

there still are a handful of beautiful girls, two walked by that the entire bar tracked with their eyes, tall and beautiful, but it is not the same bar as it was one year ago.

solid gold was good, millenium is a super inflated clip joint with a few nice girls, dlux has some eye candy but unsure how to access it, star rhino is a great club if you just want a great strip club experience (even got me a cab and i paid local rates to get home).

buddha bar is over.

the girls are gone unless you bring them yourself.

male to female ratio is blown out of the water. a bar filled with bald, bad dressed men, ages 50-70, kills everything.

after that happens its all over.

seriously guys, if you hit that point, you have to accept a little bit of reality about what you are going to access and your methods for doing it. you will not be pulling them down at the hot club. in my opinion. not here, not with these girls, and not in this city. there is some leeway in age. 24 to 42 is going to work. but you better wear good clothes, stay in shape, and be a reasonable beacon of success. looking like you're going to go cut the grass in the back yard, being 55+, that kills it. i am repeating myself. i am sad to see a good thing die.

it was so in walking distance from where i wanted to be and now everything is changed for me because of this sausage fest from hell.[/quote]stop moaning.

the biggest turn off for girls here isn't your age, your clothes or whether you are in bad shape.

they don't like idiots that moan. real men here do, losers complain.

[QUOTE=Tuggen; 1304273]I was contacted by a girl from outside Kiev and asked if I wanted her to come and meet me at my upcoming trip to Kiev. I was mostly interested in some company during my staying there and offered USD500, beside expenses, for 2 whole days.

Was I totaly out of the line cheap?

As I see it I have no problem to find just no-sex company for 2 days in Kiev for free, besides dinner, cost for activities and so on. If I want sex I have no problem to find this for maximun USD100 / hour and I will for sure not have sex for more than 5 hours during 2 days. Most of my visits in Kiev I don't search for sex at all but just some nice company.

USD500 is probably also half a months salary there. Good for 2 days in my eyes for just spending time with a nice company.[/QUOTE]$500 for a weekend visit is very generous, $300 plus travel would be normal. Breaking it down to an hourly rate is not relative to the situation I feel. You aren't looking for a $100 an hour hooker and she's not looking to fuck 5 guys over the weekend.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1304866]By the way, I just took a look at Gia's basic pricing scheme. One hour costs $200. 48 hrs cost $2500 at Gia. Somehow you reasoned one fifth of standard Western pricing was fair. Under this reasoning, you should be paying about $40 for one hour of FS. Good luck with that! Send them my way if you can find um![/QUOTE]Who still uses GIA?

[QUOTE=Irish Lad;1304899]Who still uses GIA?[/QUOTE]Just used it as a barometer of pricing IL.

[QUOTE=Irish Lad;1304898]$500 for a weekend visit is very generous, $300 plus travel would be normal. Breaking it down to an hourly rate is not relative to the situation I feel. You aren't looking for a $100 an hour hooker and she's not looking to fuck 5 guys over the weekend.[/QUOTE]I agree with Irish Lad. 300 USD plus travel is normal. Obviously you are going to be paying for everything in Kiev when she is with you. Tell her you will bring a gift for her from whatever country you are from. Slavic chicks, like all women, love to be given gifts. It has worked well for me in the past.

[QUOTE=Irish Lad;1304899]Who still uses GIA?[/QUOTE]Going to Kiev in a few days. Anybody experience with.

[url]www.escort-models.com[/url]

[QUOTE=Irish Lad;1304898]$500 for a weekend visit is very generous, $300 plus travel would be normal. Breaking it down to an hourly rate is not relative to the situation I feel. You aren't looking for a $100 an hour hooker and she's not looking to fuck 5 guys over the weekend.[/QUOTE].

He is an Irish Lad, but not that Green when it comes to money matters 4 fun in Ukraine.

A girl who comes down to see you in KIEV and not ask for any money upfront ain't a $100 hooker. She might be a girl just looking for some fun and money on the side.

Donetsk girl who came down to Kiev to see me in 2009, cost me just under US$ 300, and that included her room at my hotel. .

Again I refer to Irish Lad who did decipher our pms at the time, when I posted some contents, that Donetsk girl wasn't a hooker.

She thought I was her Dream Man. So there you have it.

The girl is for my private use only.

I was checking a little bit for Kiev private guides to see the rate and I saw up to 150$ a day.

Didn't search so much but I did se a couple of younger girls including one hottie. Wonder if any could be interested in some "additional work" for an additional fee?

There have been several more that have been writing me, from mamba, offering servecis (I just recently registered). One asking a whooping 800$ a day for a couple of days! Otherwise they usually just write a short notice that I can meet them for 100$ an hour. Most seem to have little or no english skills so its not really possible to communicate with them. I would think there would be a good chance to get 3 hours for 200$ from a 100$ girl but haven't asked. The only girl of these that seemed to have good skills in english sent me her number without having asked for it.

Anyway I registed at mamba to try to find a date not payed sex. This showed out to be much more difficult than I thought. To me it seems much more difficult than to ask someone out from the street in Kiev. The reply rate of this has so far been arround 1 out of 100 but I guess since I turned 45 a month a go I'm a bit to old for girls below 30. Also, the large majority of them I tried to write hadn't noted any english skills.

Escort sites and escort advertisements mean nothing. Real prices are in the middle of the real market. It is like a stock exchange: some shares are just paper for the mob, some shares are gems at low prices, some shares are good but too expensive.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1304900]Just used it as a barometer of pricing IL.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1304866]By the way, I just took a look at Gia's basic pricing scheme. One hour costs $200. 48 hrs cost $2500 at Gia. Somehow you reasoned one fifth of standard Western pricing was fair. Under this reasoning, you should be paying about $40 for one hour of FS. Good luck with that! Send them my way if you can find um![/QUOTE].

Your girl that you met in March worked out at this price, going by your post.

". I made one trip to Kiev back in March and I met a 19 year old that agreed to come back to my place for $150 and perform FS and owo. The girl ended up being a porn star performer and stayed for hours at my place.".

And why use Gia as a! Barometer " for pricing?

Price for sex should be "Ten Times The Price Of a Hair Cut ".

Get the Book. We disussed this before on this thread.

[QUOTE=Ticking Timebomb;1304822]I have to call you on that one. Where is the evidence of demand outstripping supply? Girls on Mamba are actually quoting lower prices! Euro 2012 wasn't the shag fest they expected and as there are sooooo many more prostitutes than tourists in this city, the prices are aimed more at locals. Sure if you go to the sex tourist traps and do little homework, you'll pay through the nose. Almost all girls are I've chatted to on Mamba recently (today) are charging 500 uah for an hour. Try it and see. People have been saying that girls here are getting more and more spoiled since I arrived several years ago. Actually, prices have decreased. If they haven't for you, you're doing something wrong. However, everyone sees the world differently.[/QUOTE]Spot on.

The Euro 2012 pulled all the old working girls out from wherever they were hiding and the fanzone in Maidan was packed with girls all searching foreigners. The feedback is that the p4p girls didn't realize the football fans were more interested in football than sex. Many fans were couples too which reduced the market.

I am always surprised when the champions league is on how many girls still turn up at Arena bar. They don't get noticed until full time.

Prices have certainly dropped on Mamba.

[QUOTE=Irish Lad;1305136]Prices have certainly dropped on Mamba.[/QUOTE]I can only agree. Quotations during my trip just before EURO was higher than my last visit just after the football party. The ones that responded quoted me more often 500 UAH for an hour. One 21 year old girl said "the same as my friend" and I said "well, I do not know what she charge since I did not met her", and then stupid me said "100 USD" and she said "YES!" a little bit too loud. But she stayed for a couple of hours and took it in all her holes with no complaints, so she worked for the 100 USD.

500 UAH per hour will be what I consider normal for my next visit in some weeks.

B

[QUOTE=Irish Lad;1305136]Prices have certainly dropped on Mamba.[/QUOTE]I've just registered at mamba. I have been searching for a date but some girls has answered 100$ and hour so they were obviously WG even if they hadn't directly stated that in the add. Is that a dropped price? Then it must have been expensive earliger.

Landed today and will make a good wingman. 30, in shape and like non pros, I'm good at approaching girls so if anyone wants to hit some places ill be here for a few days, I noticed alot of you mentioned meeting up so just pm me with phone number or if you can't pm leave a message with a meeting time. I'm by Kreshetak McDonalds.

[QUOTE=Michelangelo; 1304966]Going to Kiev in a few days. Anybody experience with.

[url]www.escort-models.com[/url][/QUOTE]This question has been asked and answered many times before on this thread. It's obvious you need to read more of the thread going back at least a year. If you don't you will miss information and make mistakes that will cost you time and money. So do your homework before getting to Kiev. That's advice you can take to the bank.

The particular website you ask about, like just about all the Many escort websites for escorts in Kiev that you can easily find doing Google searches, is a "bait and switch" agency that uses fake pictures. That means the girl who will arrive at your apartment will not be the girl in the picture you saw, nor will she bear any resemblance to the girl in the picture you saw. Neither will she necessarily speak English despite what the phone person from the agency told you when you called and ordered her. The only thing that will be accurate is the price that want you to pay. It doesn't mean you can't use these agencies to get hookers to your apartment. All it means is your shopping starts when the girl shows up and you see what they are actually selling.

It is entirely a matter of random chance whether the girl that shows up will be good looking or will be a piglet. The agency will send you whoever they have available at the time of your call. Since the population pool in a place like Kiev contains a good percentage of young females who are skinny and good looking, you stand a statistically decent chance that a good looking girl might show up. But it is not guaranteed, and is the result of random chance of it happens. Thus like in any matter gambled on, you have to be ready for the result to be not what you want on each roll of the dice. If a girl not to your liking shows up, you should simply send her back and order another. You may choose to ask the agency to simply send you their three best available girls for you to choose from, as the larger number of girls increases the odds that a good looking girl may be among them. If you give taxi fare to each girl sent away, then the agency will usually continue to try to get a girl to you that you might accept. If you send girls away without taxi fare, then the agency will probably not continue to service you. If you want to use websites to get escorts to your apartment, that's the way to handle what they will throw at you. Just realize the photos mean nothing and it's a numbers game you will have to play until you get a decent looking girl. This process will of course consume and waste a lot of your time, or you may be lucky and a good enough looking girl will show up sooner. It's random chance. Some guys were very lucky and a very good looking girl showed up within a reasonable number of tries.

Although I tried the agency you asked about, and know that what I have explained to you is true from.

Personal experience, I have not tried the many very high priced escort websites for Kiev escorts. The market rate for an escort girl in Kiev is in the area of between 400 UAH ($50 USD) to 800 UAH ($100 USD). Those prices are generally recognized as acceptable and within the range of reasonable for escorts in Kiev. Prices much higher than that such as $150 or 150 Euro or 200 Euro that are asked on some escort websites are prices that are very high for Kiev and rip off prices. I never ordered a girl from such very high priced escort websites because of the prices which were too high, so I don't know if they also use fake pics or whether these very high priced escort websites are using true pictures. Even if the girls who showed up at your door from these high priced websites were actually the girl in the website photos, it wouldn't have mattered to me, because I did not want to be paying 200 Euro, or even 150 Euro, for only one hour in a place like Kiev, when I knew that I could get girls who looked as good as their photos for $100 / hour quite easily. So I never investigated the escort websites with prices like 150 Euro / hour and above. So I merely surmise that they too are using fake pictures, but don't know that from personal experience, although its a fairly good bet I am right.

There are several exceptions to the above, the first of which is gia-escort. Com which has been reported to be using true but photoshopped pictures on their website, but is too high priced compared to the proper market rates for escorting in Kiev of up to 800 UAH ($100 USD) for the first hour. Also the girls on their website aren't generally good looking enough to command premium prices, even if the rates come down to more reasonable hourly rates for a long term booking. So since better looking girls were available in Kiev for lower prices, I have never used Gia yet. But you will find reports back in the thread of members who did.

Another website which is an exception to the strictly fake picture website style, is top-modals. Com, which is a mixture of mostly fake ads from girl apartments and agencies, but some individual girls I have ordered from that site in 2010 did use their true pics. I haven't ordered girls from top-modals. Com more recently, so I don't know the current state of things, but it is sure a high percentage of the pics are fake, although some may be true.

The same can be said about the mamba. Ru website, insofar as the ads that were from girls who wrote on their profiles "offers sex for money" or "seeking a sponsor" or since the recent "clean up" of that website, using the euphemism of "looking for fun". However, the caveat about this is that mamba. Ru is also a social website with many real girls using it just like any other social website. So you have this combination of female users of the mamba. Ru website in Kiev of both real girls who are looking for normal dates, together with girls looking to receive money in exchange for their favors, and many escort agencies and girl apartments creating profiles for that purpose.

So It depends what you as the man are looking for. If you are looking for freebie sex and regular dating, you will want to identify the profiles of the real girls who are likely using true pictures, since at the first date one would see they lied with fake pics, and usually a normal date is preceded by exchange of further pics or skyping so the parties can see each other, do what's the point of using fake pics. And if you are a gentleman that doesn't want to waste time going on preliminary dates first, but rathet who is looking for p4p, I. E. For an escort to come to your apartment (pay for play) , then you will want to identify the profiles of those girls who are desirous of coming to your apartment to have sex with you for an agreed fee.

How to identify which profile is which on mamba. Ru, and who are the real girls looking for normal dates, and who are the prostitutes or semi-pros looking for money in exchange for sex, will require another post. Perhaps someone else will address that in more detail. All I will say here is that I send a nice initial message that is designed to allow the girl to say what she wants or intends, and is innocuous enough to not be offensive to any real girls who may receive it. Something like,"you are very pretty. I would love to meet you. If you are interested, please send me your phone number and your conditions." you can embellish that with words that show your own petsonal flair, but the gist of it is there.

You should know that since there are many girl apartments and escort agencies as well as individual girls looking for p4p customers on mamba. Ru and posting profiles for that purpose, that those p4p girls or agencies are mostly using fake pictures because they are using "bait and switch" tactics which rely on the man's libido and passions to take the girl anyway, even if when she shows up at his door, he sees that she is not the girl in the picture he expected. If the girl who actually shows up looks good enough, then usually the tactic works and the man keeps the girl for paid sex. The fact that her agency or she lied about her picture is irrelevant, because he was not seeking a girl with good moral character to date as in normal dating, but rather he was seeking simply attractive female companionship and a female body to enjoy sex with, so what difference does it make that they used a fake pic. One pretty girl for paid sex is interchangeable with another pretty girl for paid sex."Bait and switch" continues to exist because it continues to work. The problems only happen when the agency sends a girl who is far below the level of good looks of the girl in the picture ad, and too far below the customer's own tastes. So since, with respect to the mamba. Ru profiles that are from p4p girls or agencies seeking customers for paid sex, many of the pictures in the profiles are fakes, it is necessary to approach it in the same fashion as recommended above, which is to keep trying with girl after girl until someone pleasing shows up, and not be deterred by the fake pics since it is a numbers game.

All the foregoing is regards how to approach the Internet escort websites for Kiev. But you should know that a better and more fun way to seek p4p girls in Kiev at night, is to go to the nightclubs mentioned on this thread, where you can directly see the girls you want, and there is no mystery of waiting to see who shows up at your door and will she be pretty or not. You can go right after the prettiest girl in the club directly. In nightclubs too however, you will need to figure out which are the p4p girls who will have sex for money (referred to on this thread as pros and semi-pros) , and which are the normal girls out for fun. It is safest in my view to speak to all girls as if they were regular girls and eventually, when the moment seems ripe for it, indicate your interest in having "fun" with them in your apartment, and Don't mention money. Wait for them to raise the issue of money. That way you don't End up propositioning a regular girl for paid sex and get your face slapped. Any p4p girl will likely get straight to the point, anyways. And who knows, you may be getting lucky and getting freebie sex. So go with the flow.

There is also higher priced p4p available as "take out" from a number of strip clubs in Kiev, and the girls are gorgeous, but it is pricey. So if what attracted you to the website you initially asked about was the low prices per hour, then stick with those type of low priced websites, and send away girls that aren't satisfactory to you until something good shows up. Or Try out the girl apartments that taxi drivers may know the location of in the downtown area. Or try out the nightclubs where it has been reported by others on this thread that girls can be gotten at similar low prices of $100 / hr too.

Do your research and.

Good luck mongering.

LJ

[QUOTE=Jojosun; 1305135].

Your girl that you met in March worked out at this price, going by your post.

". I made one trip to Kiev back in March and I met a 19 year old that agreed to come back to my place for $150 and perform FS and owo. The girl ended up being a porn star performer and stayed for hours at my place.".

And why use Gia as a! Barometer " for pricing?

Price for sex should be "Ten Times The Price Of a Hair Cut ".

Get the Book. We disussed this before on this thread.[/QUOTE]The discussion was about a non local girl jumping on a bus / train to meet someone for $500 for 48 hrs. I used Gia because they charge $200 / hr as a Western agency and most of us are in agreement that half this price is normal with independents. I simply divided there 48 / hr service of $2500 to arrive at a simple basis of what an independent might charge. Admittedly, this is poor reasoning.

I am not one to apply logic to mongering but I personally believe $500 for a weekend would be to low for a girl that is not local and does not know you. I could be very wrong. While in Kiev, I met girls through the nightclubs and not Mamba.