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[QUOTE=RockyV;2492701]So stop looking only at the mortality rate and start looking at the potential long-term damages, which will affect quality of life for many people.[/QUOTE]I absolutely agree with this part. It's very similar to obesity (smoking or drug addictions) and it's potential long-term damages, which affects quality of life for many people.
[QUOTE=Gino02;2492317]It's like someone commenting on a peanut review saying everyone should stop eating peanuts because he just found out he now has peanut allergy. Very odd.[/QUOTE]Not odd if you live in Berlin. We very worried as daily new cases broke through 700 yesterday. Highest ever. Plus new internal German travel restrictions changing every day. We are not doom sayers we are data sayers. Forum seems now very skewed by quasi-libertarian science doubters. Fine, you can of course say what you want. All place individual risk taking and "freedom" judgement over any social cost. You are not just deciding for yourselves. Nature of pandemic. Important to state the consensus alternative, especially for those who plan trip to Berlin. We are full on in 2nd wave and situation is very fluid and uncertain. Numbers jumping much higher everywhere and wishing them away will not make it so. What is odd is how this become so political. People cannot politely disagree, occasional mask wearing set back human freedom, etc.
Why would e. g. Berlin city government (or Federal) really want to shoot economy for "no" reason. Because it will make them popular and get re-elected? Defies all logic. Same in Netherlands, UK, Switz, Austria, Spain, France. This is simply not time for FKK Travel.
Must say this to also protect Berlin. ICU beds starting to also get stressed in certain hospitals and these things have lag of 1-3 weeks. Ninja know several Berlin city gov. Staff who love FKK. Had long talks in Artemis about sector importance to economy, image of Berlin as free wild place, etc. They are freaking out now because they see what is coming.
Will hear usual complaints this but numbers everywhere are now so large that sex travel just unwise. You make own decision and of course just like in Russian roulette, you can get lucky. FKK will eventually bounce back, maybe next summer if vaccines work at scale. Hope so. Am done with this, last comment for months now. You all know what to do. Good luck, stay informed, stay safe, keep eye on Berlin city website and overall travel news. No idea where all this is going. Finis.
Today at 2 PM a important meeting in Berlin between Merkel and the regions, on the able the lock down of the FKK. In the most infected areas.
[QUOTE=NookyNinja;2492876]Not odd if you live in Berlin. We very worried as daily new cases broke through 700 yesterday. Highest ever. Plus new internal German travel restrictions changing every day. We are not doom sayers we are data sayers. Forum seems now very skewed by quasi-libertarian science doubters. Fine, you can of course say what you want. All place individual risk taking and "freedom" judgement over any social cost. You are not just deciding for yourselves. Nature of pandemic. Important to state the consensus alternative, especially for those who plan trip to Berlin. We are full on in 2nd wave and situation is very fluid and uncertain. Numbers jumping much higher everywhere and wishing them away will not make it so. What is odd is how this become so political. People cannot politely disagree, occasional mask wearing set back human freedom, etc.
Why would e. g. Berlin city government (or Federal) really want to shoot economy for "no" reason. Because it will make them popular and get re-elected? Defies all logic. Same in Netherlands, UK, Switz, Austria, Spain, France. This is simply not time for FKK Travel.
Must say this to also protect Berlin. ICU beds starting to also get stressed in certain hospitals and these things have lag of 1-3 weeks. Ninja know several Berlin city gov. Staff who love FKK. Had long talks in Artemis about sector importance to economy, image of Berlin as free wild place, etc. They are freaking out now because they see what is coming.
Will hear usual complaints this but numbers everywhere are now so large that sex travel just unwise. You make own decision and of course just like in Russian roulette, you can get lucky. FKK will eventually bounce back, maybe next summer if vaccines work at scale. Hope so. Am done with this, last comment for months now. You all know what to do. Good luck, stay informed, stay safe, keep eye on Berlin city website and overall travel news. No idea where all this is going. Finis.[/QUOTE]I hear your concerns about the virus, but why on a sex forum? Wouldn't a science or medical or health forum, or even a general forum like Facebook be a more appropriate place to discuss our virus concerns? I agree that there's some connections with a sex forum, eg specific information about which clubs are open / close during this pandemic or which girls are working now or not, etc etc specific information. But general discussions about the good / bad status of any city or country under the pandemic is still odd in a sex forum. In a sex forum though, I would love to read how my fellow mongers are getting their sex or sexual fetishes during this pandemic. For everything else, I would try to use relevant appropriate forums.
[QUOTE=NookyNinja;2492876]Not odd if you live in Berlin. We very worried as daily new cases broke through 700 yesterday. Highest ever. Plus new internal German travel restrictions changing every day. We are not doom sayers we are data sayers. Forum seems now very skewed by quasi-libertarian science doubters. Fine, you can of course say what you want. All place individual risk taking and "freedom" judgement over any social cost. You are not just deciding for yourselves. Nature of pandemic. Important to state the consensus alternative, especially for those who plan trip to Berlin. We are full on in 2nd wave and situation is very fluid and uncertain. Numbers jumping much higher everywhere and wishing them away will not make it so. What is odd is how this become so political. People cannot politely disagree, occasional mask wearing set back human freedom, etc.
[/QUOTE]I believe an increase in cases is expected because of seasonality and that is what we are seeing now. In most countries in Europe there hasn't been any excess mortality since June which then effectively is when the pandemic ended in Europe. Of course, with the level of testing now, there will be a sharp increase in number of cases but the relevant measurement should be number of deaths and number of Intensive Care cases compared to earlier years. I live in Sweden, we never had a lock-down, we don't use masks and we have accelerating under-mortality compared to the latest five years. Remember that one of the principal strategies for politicans is scare mongering because it gives them more power.
Oregon96 : The results of Sweden are not good at all, 10 M people, 6000 deaths, it is even worse than France and far from Germany good results. The politicians don't care about mongering it is so marginal in the global GDP.
[QUOTE=Oregon97;2492970]I believe an increase in cases is expected because of seasonality and that is what we are seeing now. In most countries in Europe there hasn't been any excess mortality since June which then effectively is when the pandemic ended in Europe. Of course, with the level of testing now, there will be a sharp increase in number of cases but the relevant measurement should be number of deaths and number of Intensive Care cases compared to earlier years. I live in Sweden, we never had a lock-down, we don't use masks and we have accelerating under-mortality compared to the latest five years. Remember that one of the principal strategies for politicans is scare mongering because it gives them more power.[/QUOTE]Sweden has 11 times the per capita death rate with Covid as their neighbor Norway, thus needlessly sacrificing the lives of 5000+ of their citizens chasing herd immunity. There's also more at stake with Covid than life and death as many experience protracted symptoms and internal damage. And conspiracy theories trying to blame politicians and the media are of course a joke as this is a pandemic that has reached the entire world.
The pandemic is over in Europe? All I can do is suggest that you get your head out of your ass.
[URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/URL]#countries.
Famous last words as the cold weather months approach.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2492976]Sweden has 11 times the per capita death rate with Covid as their neighbor Norway, thus needlessly sacrificing the lives of 5000+ of their citizens chasing herd immunity. There's also more at stake with Covid than life and death as many experience protracted symptoms and internal damage. And conspiracy theories trying to blame politicians and the media are of course a joke as this is a pandemic that has reached the entire world.
The pandemic is over in Europe? All I can do is suggest that you get your head out of your ass.
[URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/URL]#countries.
Famous last words as the cold weather months approach.[/QUOTE]True, Sweden lost a lot of people early on in this pandemic, very likely older people with various underlying conditions and lower natural immunity. But, isn't Sweden's daily death rates (both 7 days and 3 days moving averages) are 0.1 or less per million residents for a while now (started declining in July), and it is pretty steady, whereas almost every other European countries are seeing increases (and many much higher than 0.1, even Germany is seeing double the death rates per million people now compared to Sweden) in that same daily deaths per million residents? What does that tell us about the long term strength or weakness of Sweden's Covid strategy?
[QUOTE=Tuber19;2492723]Average death age is with Covid 19 > 80.[/QUOTE]Would like to know where you found this data. I have never been able to find anything to back up this claim.
You may have heard it. But sixsense is closed down and all other clubs as well in netherlands.
We were part of this. Running around in sex clubs without masks on. Shame on you.
[QUOTE=Kuni042;2493035]We were part of this. Running around in sex clubs without masks on. Shame on you.[/QUOTE]1) How many people did you see in clubs without masks?
2) What did you do about it? Did you confront those people? Did you tell club management?
[QUOTE=Kuni042;2493035]You may have heard it. But sixsense is closed down and all other clubs as well in netherlands.
We were part of this. Running around in sex clubs without masks on. Shame on you.[/QUOTE]I already predicted in July that any reopening of clubs brothels would be short-lived, and fools like yourself are now believing the hype that "we are part of this."
[QUOTE=HammerTime96;2465491]Well, I'm very much afraid that the authorities are deliberately setting prostitutes / customers / brothels up for permanent closures or totalitarian tracking apps on smartphones in case CV19 starts spreading again in autumn.
It will be easy to be point fingers at brothels, prostitutes, and their customers for not providing / checking contact data, or accepting / providing false contact data.
The end conclusion is simple and foreseeable as authorities will say: "you see, people can not be trusted, so now we need to shut down brothels and force everybody to install totalitarian CV19 tracking apps on phones to monitor everybody 24/7. "
There is already a lot of media hype about every new case of CV19, and the stage for a second wave (real or imagined) is set. Furthermore, for ideological reasons, any successful treatment of CV19 is deliberately blocked by most western governments and the WHO because this was endorsed by Trump. In my country, doctors who successfully treated many patients with hydroxychloroquine + vitamine see, the + zinc are being silenced by the health authorities and shamed in the media for being quacks.[/QUOTE]
Is it still open as normal, or are there restrictions in Berlin now?
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2492976]Sweden has 11 times the per capita death rate with Covid as their neighbor Norway, thus needlessly sacrificing the lives of 5000+ of their citizens chasing herd immunity. There's also more at stake with Covid than life and death as many experience protracted symptoms and internal damage. And conspiracy theories trying to blame politicians and the media are of course a joke as this is a pandemic that has reached the entire world.
The pandemic is over in Europe? All I can do is suggest that you get your head out of your ass.
[URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/URL]#countries.
Famous last words as the cold weather months approach.[/QUOTE]Fully understand people living in countries with constant scare mongering are afraid. I believe in science, which is clear that the situation in most of Europe is not worse than any of the latest five years. In respect of comparing Scandinavian countries, fully understand people believe they are very similar but in reality there are huge differences in population, health status, social structures, living locations, CV19 categorisation, earlier flu season fatalities, elderly care regulations, etc, all of which surely has contributed to the higher death rates in Sweden than say Norway. So not necessarily dependent on CV19 strategies. Sweden is really the only country with a science based CV19 strategy and fully in line with the WHO recommendations from Nov 2019.
[QUOTE=Kuni042;2493035]You may have heard it. But sixsense is closed down and all other clubs as well in netherlands.
We were part of this. Running around in sex clubs without masks on. Shame on you.[/QUOTE]I think you mean well but the closure has nothing to do with sex. The Dutch government would allow the wellness and the rooms to stay open. But it is the bar and restaurant that need to close down like all restaurants and bars in Holland. That is simply not a manageable situation. But in general you do have a good point. Closed areas with a lot of people with a lot of interaction are the perfect situation for super spreaders. So, just plain luck that no massive outbreak occurred in SS. What are the odds. SS just was lucky. My guess now is that the new measures will not improve the situation in Holland. The spreading started to increase dramatically in Amsterdam in July and has gone too far now. It won't be stopped without a total lockdown. Probably in two or four weeks. Lasting till Christmas. I hope I will be wrong but I was right the last few months.