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[QUOTE=Syzygies;2237967]A tip from me, it is better to omit the price you paid, unless you want to be questioned on it, or unless bragging about how cheap you got. [/QUOTE]I couldn't disagree more. Price is one of the most important (if not number one) element in a review. Almost everything else is more or less bragging and fluff, unless you're reviewing a lesser known venue or talking about a specific service from a specific identifiable girl.
[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2238299]I couldn't disagree more. Price is one of the most important (if not number one) element in a review. Almost everything else is more or less bragging and fluff, unless you're reviewing a lesser known venue or talking about a specific service from a specific identifiable girl.[/QUOTE]Ha ha. Yes I know price is everything to some. However not to me. Certainly no point to publish that someone paid more than he needed to. We have no idea how stunning the girl really was. How can we know if she was worth it. He can certainly mention the standard shop prices. That is useful.
Quality and enjoyment is everything, but I still want it at a good fair price. I vary my payments depending on quality of girl and level of effort, that is in cases where I have any flexibility. With regular girls, we usually have an idea of what I should pay for a basic visit, but vary depending on total time, and effort etc. Plenty of girls went with me without a price negotiated, so I just pay what I thought was fair. I don't find a need to specify how much I felt to tip a girl for any extra effort put in. I certainly have no desire to bicker about it with others on the forum.
I know I can get 1 K street walkers, but I don't bother. They just aren't worth my time in most cases tried. Cheapest possible in not the most enjoyable. I am not the easy customer, so a girl has to have style, desire, looks, cooperation and preferably skills. If she is that good, I don't expect her to be bargain basement. I tried taking a cheap street walker for a while, but in the end, her looks and pussy were just not good enough to excite me any more.
My regulars are girls that never bore me. A cut above.
[QUOTE=*****man;2238244]He didn't say whether the BJ he got was bareback or not. Sounds like he was so wowed by the looks of the girl he wasn't even worried about that. Are they really that amazing in the looks department?[/QUOTE]The Sathiga girl I finally agreed to try was indeed very hot. But that incident was about 4 years ago and I have not seen her sitting outside that shop or anywhere else for at least 3 and half years. I would say there are a few but not many better looking than average (for MPs) girls sitting outside the shops on Soi 23.
Those shops are not well known for their sex service the way shops like Snow White, Tulip and Mango are. But they are clearly Happy Ending shops no one would mistake for places to get a great legit massage.
Not being a fan of any MPs, maybe I have misunderstood how they define their Happy Endings re the price structure. They generally offer a HJ for around 500 baht extra (above the stated cost of the "massage"), a BJ for an extra 1000 baht and FS for an extra 1500 baht, right? Isn't that the generally accepted industry standard? At Happy Ending MPs, I mean.
But one must not assume that the BJ you're paying 1000 baht for will be the nearly universally accepted and assumed type of BJ you get in a nearby BJ Bar for no more than that baht amount and often less; a BBBJ+CIM? Is that about right? That you should only assume it will actually be a HJ with some oral foreplay thrown in unless you specifically negotiate for and get past their shock and disgust at the thought of finishing a BJ as a BJ (CIM) instead of as a HJ?
That's a serious question because I think I am getting the message from far more experienced MP customers and certainly from girls working in shops like the ones on Soi 23 that that is the deal.
Funny how differently the girls react to the idea of a proper CIM finish to a BJ. The more than doable Hillary 4 girl and the hot body little spinner bathtub girl at Billboard Go-Go Bar I recently gave a positive mention about, both in their early 20's at most, reacted the same way to my interview question for whether they would finish a BJ with CIM. They said "Yes" emphatically and looked genuinely puzzled by the question, as though they'd never heard of any other way to finish a BJ. LOL.
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2238172]....................... So now I discretely tell them what my "anything and everything you want!" bottom line acceptable service would be; BBBJ+CIM.
Not one moderately attractive girl out of at least 8-9 different such encounters at the various shops on Soi 23 has ever said Yes. And most of the time they recoil in horror at the very thought of it.
The last very aggressive girl I shocked with that request, only about 2 months ago, was so emotionally distraught over it, she immediately called the mamasan over, breathlessly said something to her in Thai. I related my simple request in English to the very English fluent mamasan and SHE reacted like she had never heard of a MP shop in Bangkok providing such a thing to a customer.................[/QUOTE]I am surprised by that reaction for a request for BBBJ+CIM. Are you omitting anything? Did you ask her to swallow? If you did then I'll understand her shocked response. BTW in 2015 I stayed at the Citadines hotel on Soi 23 for 2 months and passed by those MPs every day but never sessioned there, I was too enamored with Soi Cowboy and Nana Plaza not to mention Nataree where I spent most of my money.
[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2238299]I couldn't disagree more. Price is one of the most important (if not number one) element in a review. Almost everything else is more or less bragging and fluff, unless you're reviewing a lesser known venue or talking about a specific service from a specific identifiable girl.[/QUOTE]Agreed. Four things are important: looks, performance, attitude, and price.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2238442]I am surprised by that reaction for a request for BBBJ+CIM. Are you omitting anything? Did you ask her to swallow? [/QUOTE]No. It was very clear I was only asking about a standard BBBJ+CIM, nothing to do with swallowing. The girls who say Yes are not confused about whether I meant swallowing or not and I ask them the same way. I would also say the ambiance and mood in terms of smiles and playfulness on both our parts, as much "chemistry" as can be generated within a moment of being arm hooked and pulled into a hug by the girls as I walk by the group, is as inviting and positive as it can get, if that is a question in anyone's mind. I will almost always make an effort to create that mood or wait until it has been established before I ask about particulars under any circumstances. I honestly believe so few girls in certain kinds of venues are ever asked or expected to properly finish a BJ that way, they are under the impression it is simply not a "thing" that is ever done. LOL.
I am no longer surprised by a recoiling in horror negative reaction to that request by girls at certain P4P venues, particularly Massage Shops (even obviously Happy Ending ones), Freelancers who sit on chairs outside of Short Time room hotels or who purport to give massage in the rooms (as on Sukhumvit Soi 7/1), Beer Garden Soi 7, maybe a couple of others. Almost everywhere in Pattaya. I've gotten lectured about what a sick fuck I must be to even ask a Thai girl to do such a thing on Soi 6 and from beer bar girls around Pattaya.
Where I rarely get such a negative response or even very many refusals is with Bangkok go-go dancers, dating sites (pro and non pro), regular girls I meet in restaurants and malls around town (during normal "getting to know you better" conversation later, not on the spot. lol), Freelancers on the stroll along Sukhumvit on and around Soi 4. And, of course, I have never gotten a refusal at BJ Bars. But I will still sometimes ask, especially with a new girl to me, because it does happen that a BJ Bar girl pulls away way too soon and I hear anecdotal stories about it happening often enough in BJ Bars with new girls from fellow punters.
[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2238494]Agreed. Four things are important: looks, performance, attitude, and price.[/QUOTE]You did not say that was your order of importance, but for me the order of importance in that list is Performance, Attitude, Looks and Price. The first two are very, very close in terms of importance. The third one, Looks, is close to the top two as well but would move higher in terms of eliminating them due to some significant problematic issue of age, weight or face. But Price is way down the line. It is a factor. But not much of one, give or take 1-2 thousand baht or so, if those first three are coming in strong enough.
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2238544]You did not say that was your order of importance, but for me the order of importance in that list is Performance, Attitude, Looks and Price. The first two are very, very close in terms of importance. The third one, Looks, is close to the top two as well but would move higher in terms of eliminating them due to some significant problematic issue of age, weight or face. But Price is way down the line. It is a factor. But not much of one, give or take 1-2 thousand baht or so, if those first three are coming in strong enough.[/QUOTE]Ah yes. Great we all agree on the same main 4 criteria, we just all put them in a different order. To repeat girls often we really don't want to compromise too much on more than one of the 4.
My sequence is probably (to be realistic): Looks, price, attitude, and performance (skills) last. This is not really the order of importance but the order of discovery. The girl won't even be considered if looks and price is not with suitable bounds, given every girl is a gamble. I like some skills, but these are least mandatory if the girl is stunning, relaxed and fun loving, and goes for it. I have tolerated stunners that could scarcely do a BJ at all, because of braces or omitted the BJ if it was not good. One of my regulars from Crazy House was just beautiful and fun (with teeth braces), but maybe only ever attempted the BJ once. I did not really care. Still enjoyed her even with her high pitched moaning. LOL She responded very well to DATY and kissing was fine despite the braces. Was so good looking as to well out of my league in the real world. LOL Luckily she chose guys for customers not by looks, but nice guys with good attitude, and not too stingy.
I even repeated a starfish recently LOL, because her body was just so superior to all the competition at the time (and was dancing nude so I could see just how tight but curvy she was), and she at least was willing to tongue kiss, do a shallow blow job okay And allowed fingers in the pussy. So I still enjoyed the fuck despite her relative unresponsiveness, although she has started to lighten up now she is getting to know me. LOL Will I do her again? Maybe only if desperate. Still it is hard to look at the other girls in the same bar. She is the only one with a 9 points body. There were faint signs she was slightly stimulated by the DATY. So at least she gets a tick for cooperative attitude, if not wild and raunchy.
Most of my bomb out girls really are not due to poor skills, but due to uncooperative attitude trying to avoid full penetration and restrictions. I can tolerate a bad to non existent BJ and move on to something else if other things are good. Nice kissing gets me going easy.
So too many times I get it wrong where girl was stunning to my spec, but attitude not cooperative and restrictive. Never was the price to fuck it up in the first instance. Same girl could easily have a better attitude with some young guy she found more exciting I guess. Yet my regular bargirls always say they prefer older guys, as we are kinder, less arrogant, don't see ourselves as god's gift, and maybe more generous LOL. I think all my regular girls prefer Farangs. That is a given. Girls that prefer Asian won't last long with me. The attitude will be compromised. Girls that like fucking Farangs will obviously work better.
If I can get stunners that are also raunchy, and have great skills, that is the dream. LOL I even compromise on the looks just a little for these types, given that "stunners" is unrealistic.
I do become mindful that if there are two alternative girls both excellent and one costs a lot more than the other, then I can do the cheaper one much more often. I don't take two girls together often any more, due to cost. However cheapness alone (as in street walkers) is not good enough. I need some excitement from the looks and attitude.
I appreciate that others will put price first (or 2nd), performance and services delivered next, attitude next, and looks last. It is a different psychology altogether, especially for those wanting to do a tight asshole. I guess others consider the interaction part to be fake anyway, although all my regular girls are quite orgasmic (at least on occasion if not every time). They are willing to let themselves go and get into it as well as getting money. I lost my girl now who was the most difficult to cum. I think she has a sponser now. No worries, she was young, sleek and pretty, and a goer on the bed, so I don't think difficult for her to pick up a sponser.
I had a few sessions at Snow White over the past few weeks.
Every time there was a lot of construction work going on in the building and finally I was able to find out the reason.
A new massage parlor is soon to be opened right next door to Snow White.
None of the girls wanted to talk about this but my regular girl finally told me.
So keep your eyes open for this new place, should open within the next month.
I also heard some disturbing news.
Recently more and more people that visit MP's try to get their money back on the way out.
Meaning that they pay on the way in, they have a session with a girl, on the way out they will speak loudly to the mamasan about how horrible the session was, and sometimes they get a full refund.
Talking to the girls, they say that he was very happy in the room during the session and didn't have any complaints.
I know this behavior is increasing in all of the massage parlors.
I think it's a "cheap Charlie" move and it's not fair to do that.
If they do get their money back, it means the girl does not get paid for that session.
I had some bad sessions over the years as well, but I find it better to tell the girl straight away what you think is wrong.
As for the new place on Soi 26, it will be interesting to see how it turns out.
Safe mongering.
[QUOTE=Shirt;2238288]
On the way back down the stairs I bumped into a bunch of customers walking upstairs. When I came back down to the reception area there was two customers sitting right next looking at the menu and trying to choose a girl. Kind of an awkward mood.[/QUOTE]You give an amazing amount of detail given a basically boring experience. Don't worry the next two customers might well have a great time with some other girl. I find the that different girls in same shop vary so much. So you got a dull girl. Just move on to next one. Try a shop with much more girls available. If none appeal, move to next shop.
I don't like to waste my sperm jacking off personally. I used to prefer to just go find another girl ASAP and have my luck turn around if possible, to help me forget the poor session quickly. Like you, I don't like girls with poor attitude, complaining excessively for no good reasons. Doing mish only is not really acceptable at all.
Have met girls that refuse doggy, but I don't like it. I am not a forceful fucker.
[QUOTE=Syzygies;2238562]
Most of my bomb out girls really are not due to poor skills, but due to uncooperative attitude trying to avoid full penetration and restrictions. I can tolerate a bad to non existent BJ and move on to something else if other things are good. Nice kissing gets me going easy.
So too many times I get it wrong where girl was stunning to my spec, but attitude not cooperative and restrictive.[/QUOTE]I think Performance and Attitude can often be blended together so much one doesn't know which is the offending attribute. Is she really that incapable of performing a blowjob or gently tickling a scrotum during fucking (Performance/Skills) or does she simply not want to do it or forgets to continue doing long enough to matter because she'd rather be thinking of how to win more points on Candy Crush or whatever (Attitude)?
So I guess I consider Performance to be the initial agreement to do this or that service. What kind of service is she agreeing to Perform for me. If the girl won't Perform a BBFS or a BBBJ+CIM for me, then she is of zero real use to me as a P4P provider. Or as a non pro lover/GF for that matter. That is why Performance comes in first for me. Attitude then becomes whether or not she makes a conscientious attempt to actually Perform those services well.
A girl could be the 19 year old current Miss Teen Thailand Beauty Pageant winner, have a marvelous attitude and only charge me 100 baht for an hour of her time. But if she isn't going to Perform either a BBFS or a BBBJ+CIM for me, that would be a waste of 100 baht and an hour of my time. lol. On the other hand, if she DID agree to perform one of those acts for me, preferably the BBFS, I could probably power through a lousy attitude about it and get it done even if her crown was placed on her head 10 kilograms ago and she was now charging me 5,000 baht for that hour. lol.
I put a FL out a couple of nights ago with much less baht than I had said I'd give her for an agreed upon BBFS purely due to her Attitude being so lousy. She was certainly there and available to receive a BBFS. But it was impossible to get her to do a prelimary BJ the way I asked her to do it many times already (slow and gentle) because she preferred to do it her way, all wrong for me and, worse, to grunt and raise her voice in a bit of anger that I would dare try to suggest how she ought to do it. LOL. I put a stop to it immediately, told her what I would give her for her time and to get dressed.
Can there be lousier Attitude than for a girl to bark at her customer for telling her how to improve his response to her in a way that is actually easier and less work for her (slow and gentle) than the rapid fire machine bit she somehow had been led to believe was the ultimate best way? LOL. I was sure whatever BBFS might follow would be an even more horrific nightmare. She got cab fare and the boot. She looked fine. But she was no current or former Miss Teen Thailand.
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2238644]I think Performance and Attitude can often be blended together so much one doesn't know which is the offending attribute. Is she really that incapable of performing a blowjob or gently tickling a scrotum during fucking (Performance/Skills) or does she simply not want to do it or forgets to continue doing long enough to matter because she'd rather be thinking of how to win more points on Candy Crush or whatever (Attitude)?
.[/QUOTE]You have said yourself, that girls cannot follow instructions.
So yes some girls are not capable of doing a decent blow job. Some level of skills and experience is needed. No matter how much you say to go slower, they have only one speed, they don't understand slow motion, this is despite my Thai language being more than adequate to explain exactly what is wrong and not enjoyable, and what I want instead, they refuse to stop using fingers on the dick, refuse to stop making abrasive action on sensitive skin, they refuse to tickle the balls without using fingernails, so becomes scratching. Teeth get in the way. You know all this! LOL.
It is quite conceivable that a girl who does not do BJs every day, can find very uncomfortable to keep the mouth open wide enough to do a good soft BBBJ, and have cramp or aching jaw. As we don't do BJs, we don't really understand the difficulties, although we know about open mouth wide for a period at the dentist. We know about gagging when something is shoved in too deep. However some girls are extremely inflexible, and just do what they want, which is often useless.
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2238644]..........................................A girl could be the 19 year old current Miss Teen Thailand Beauty Pageant winner, have a marvelous attitude and only charge me 100 baht for an hour of her time. But if she isn't going to Perform either a BBFS or a BBBJ+CIM for me, that would be a waste of 100 baht and an hour of my time. lol. On the other hand, if she DID agree to perform one of those acts for me, preferably the BBFS, I could probably power through a lousy attitude about it and get it done even if her crown was placed on her head 10 kilograms ago and she was now charging me 5,000 baht for that hour. lol.......................................[/QUOTE]I am different, I would be in that teen like Flyn. My order is attitude, looks, performance and price. Performance comes with experience and I am only too happy to coach a good looking girl with a delightful attitude. A good attitude makes for good chemistry and some of my best sessions have been with mediocre looking girls with whom the chemistry was excellent.
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2238544]You did not say that was your order of importance, but for me the order of importance in that list is Performance, Attitude, Looks and Price. The first two are very, very close in terms of importance. The third one, Looks, is close to the top two as well but would move higher in terms of eliminating them due to some significant problematic issue of age, weight or face. But Price is way down the line. It is a factor. But not much of one, give or take 1-2 thousand baht or so, if those first three are coming in strong enough.[/QUOTE]I can't really put them in order. They are all about on par for me. Truth be told, aside from the ridiculously priced surgery A-GoGos, most of the P4 P scene looks wise is pretty unimpressive and even in the GoGos it's hard to find a gal who is not ridiculously enhanced and fairly white skinned. Performance overall I find to be a less than when I arrived 19 years ago. Main factor is the vast majority of the gals back then wanted a boyfriend / husband and they made a sales pitch if they thought you were a likely suitor. So combine the lack of lookers with the lack of performance and I just have a hard time justifying the prices these gals want. They are all still sub 50 USD screws to me.
Oiles are full of ugly gals these days. Again, why do I want to pay 60 plus USD to look at a belly that looks like it has been run over by a M1 tank?
That being said for a very pretty gal who screws like a porn star, I'd happily part with 100 USD for a 90 min 2 shot session. I just don't see that available.
The nature of the business has changed. It caters to the Asian punter. Their wants are different from the Western guy's wants.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2238781]I am different, I would be in that teen like Flyn. My order is attitude, looks, performance and price. Performance comes with experience and I am only too happy to coach a good looking girl with a delightful attitude. A good attitude makes for good chemistry and some of my best sessions have been with mediocre looking girls with whom the chemistry was excellent.[/QUOTE]I don't have the patience for that. I don't want to teach my motorbike repair guy how to change the oil in my bike. Why should I have to spend my time training a P4 P gal in a skill that she will use to make money? She's the provider. If she wants training, then she can sesh for free or she can pay me.