German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

The legal reason that this idea doesn't seem to work is that almost all countries, even those with legal and regulated systems, is that it is illegal to live off of the earnings or avails of a prostitute. It is usually within the Pimping statutes.

Hopefully someone with knowledge of German law can point out whether or not this provision exists. I would be willing to be that it does. The way around it is rentals and services. I think some have mentioned that an FKK lady has to pay a certain amount of "rent" for using the facility whether or not she books any customers. Most jurisdictions where the activity is legal are okay with a lady having higher "rents" or shared facility costs if she uses the facility "relatively more", I. E. , she has paying customers, so she pays a certain amount of her per-session revenue to the facility. I say rents, but it can also be lodging. Parts of Spain actually govern their legal but regulated brothel system through the hotel statutes. The sex worker pays short term lodging costs for renting a room within the brothel, sometimes for as short as 30 minutes. In these legal but regulated system, the sex worker is allowed to hire services, so those doing scheduling, protecting and cleaning for the sex worker are not living off of her earnings. Her true earnings come after she pays those business expenses. The obvious issue is whether the accumulation of dividends and share price appreciation by a shareholder of a publicly-traded Brothel or FKK would be violating the laws against living off of the earnings or avails of a prostitute. That is quite a bit different than earning rent / lodging fees or providing services to the sex worker. I suspect no financial organization or stock brokerage would go near such an IPO, but maybe I am wrong.

The Mustang Ranch proposed IPO seems to have been an attempt for the legendary Joe Conforte to get a ruling from other government agencies stating that his company could not go public for similar reasons to what I just wrote. The IRS ridiculously asserted that the ladies were employees of his company, which would have even violated Nevada state law that clearly holds them to be independent contractors. It was not a serious IPO and it didn't even go far enough for him to get the written memos from other agencies that he was obviously fishing for. Eventually, this dispute was wrapped into many of his other tax and money laundering issues, and he fled to South America before he could be arrested. While the "Employee Payroll Tax" liability was nonsense, he likely was guilty / liable for many other tax debts and banking violations. Eventually the USA Government seized the property and auctioned it off to new owners. Much of what is written about the case by right-wing commentators is nonsense.

[URL]http://www.uscoles.com/mustangranch.html[/URL]

[URL]https://www.jacksonville.com/article/20160307/NEWS/801244547[/URL]

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2481354]Been about 9 months since unprecedented border closures, seizure of air travel and being unable to have dozens of pretty naked women parading around, anyone of which is happy to rub her soft little feminine fingers on my groin and a lot more. FKKs are Disneyland for men. Lots of different "rides" and for the most part no waiting, and visualization and knowing what can be had for a handful of Euros just as bigger part than the deed itself.

The urge to have physical contact with these beautiful creatures is a primary instinct / life force we are presently denied, and my oh my, it is frustrating. Never again will I take travel or FKKs for granted. The upside is that we will appreciate and cherish our hobby more than before, and savor and appreciate it more thoughtfully.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2481354]Been about 9 months since unprecedented border closures, seizure of air travel and being unable to have dozens of pretty naked women parading around, anyone of which is happy to rub her soft little feminine fingers on my groin and a lot more. FKKs are Disneyland for men. Lots of different "rides" and for the most part no waiting, and visualization and knowing what can be had for a handful of Euros just as bigger part than the deed itself.

The urge to have physical contact with these beautiful creatures is a primary instinct / life force we are presently denied, and my oh my, it is frustrating. Never again will I take travel or FKKs for granted. The upside is that we will appreciate and cherish our hobby more than before, and savor and appreciate it more thoughtfully.

If they do get a good vaccine, and so far the UK / Oxford variant is looking promising, and if they manage to get it distributed without greed and beggar thy neighbor screwing the whole thing up, I predict a massive surge in low cost airlines, hotels and FKKs. With low cost fuel / oil price, lots of unemployed pilots and crew, a huge number of empty aircraft sitting idle in deserts and storage places and leasing companies and others desperate for yield, it will be a golden time of pent up demand and shift in mentality that things are always available and can be put off. People will live more in the here and now. Especially for the post packaged and tactically planned post bankruptcy big law and / or accounting firms and all sorts of non-public mispriced derivatives. Add to that the usual free money from the USA Fed doled out to the USA majors.

Some possible opportunities include JETS (ETF), Alaska (ALK), South West (LUV), WIZZ: LN (expensive stock), Ryan Air (RYA: ID), AirAsia Bhd (AIRA. KL) and AirAsia X Bhd (AIRX. KL) (both risky because of opaque accounting). Readers here may be able to make money for FKK discretionary expenditure and own what they fly on. Similarly priced travel industries NOT aimed at the corporate sector, such as budget hotel chains may also be a play. But that is indirect. Why not take it all the way, as contemplated by the French writer Michel Houellebecq in his book Platform envisaged a Club Med style FKK (Eldorador Aphrodite) that drew together serious finance, organization and mainstream ? But what if this was done near major population centers ?[/QUOTE]Most or even all of these brothel or escort organizations are managed by dodgy management and owners or they have one foot in dodgy world, it is somehow the nature of its business and it comes with territory, sadly; But if it is managed by proper corporation like management, it will be better, but maybe it won't be as kinky as we want it to be.

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2481354]Been about 9 months since unprecedented border closures, seizure of air travel and being unable to have dozens of pretty naked women parading around, anyone of which is happy to rub her soft little feminine fingers on my groin and a lot more. FKKs are Disneyland for men. Lots of different "rides" and for the most part no waiting, and visualization and knowing what can be had for a handful of Euros just as bigger part than the deed itself.

The urge to have physical contact with these beautiful creatures is a primary instinct / life force we are presently denied, and my oh my, it is frustrating. Never again will I take travel or FKKs for granted. The upside is that we will appreciate and cherish our hobby more than before, and savor and appreciate it more thoughtfully.[/QUOTE]And separate from the true legal issues in my previous post are practical issues.

One of which is also a legal issue.

Normally the reasons for going public is to raise more money. Of course the founders sell some of their stock at a big profit, but from the company's perspective it is a need for more money and publicity.

I know the guys in the FKK forum like a big facility with lots of amenities. But I don't find that to be the trend worldwide.

I mentioned Spain, but if you look at the number of reviews and the customer satisfaction, the "shared private apartment", which is really a privately owned cooperative with the ladies themselves being the owners, is blowing away the larger legal / regulated Spanish brothels operating under the hotel statutes. There are Just a few ladies in the shared private apartment facility at a time, so they don't need public equity investments. You have to consider that all a lady needs to be a sex worker in the modern era is a cell phone and the internet to take out an ad. The overhead of a big facility may not be a good thing from an investment perspective.

Now I realize that FKKs have a lot of amenities that places in Spain do not, but a lot of posters have indicated that zoning approvals for big, new facilities are unlikely in the current political environment. So what are you going to do with all that money? Expand and refurbish the existing facilities? Are you going to then charge a higher entrance fee? I am not sure those amenities would be worth the higher price to most customers.

The other way to make more money and give a return to shareholders is to increase prices and / or increase foot traffic (traffic is probably not the best term to use). Recent price increases have not been too popular with ISG members, so I am skeptical of that approach. And you have an enormous problem if the current system of ladies accepting tips to ignore the mandatory CBJ rule continues. When upper-level management of a publicly-traded company knows and therefore participates in a scheme to violate the law, most countries impose huge fines that decrease shareholder returns. So that leaves increasing revenue by filling more rooms with an abundance of sex workers and doing enough advertising to entice guys worldwide who were otherwise unaware of the existence of FKKs to travel to Germany. Not sure that is going to work, since most media outlets have a policy of refusing sexually-oriented advertising. And trying to actively recruit sex workers to go to Germany to work would violate the laws of many localities.

Can someone enlighten me please? I have read the reports in the Artemis thread and the club is clearly open. Looks like the same in Bavaria. Why are the clubs in NRW and Hessen not opening? If they are doing so, can anyone say when for certain? Thanks.

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2481354]Am I completely crazy?[/QUOTE]Maybe. But from experience I have a feeling that putting something on the stock exchange will just enhance the drive upwards in terms of squeezing more and more money from the customer. The newfound stakeholders would demand theirs, and this would in turn ruin the entire model. The size of the largest establishments would have to be so that there could be competition between two clubs, and a national bureau would therefore have to regulate the prices. Thus making investments not as great.

State run brothels / FKK's are thus far more likely, as that also removes the pimp question.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2481381]No, you're not crazy. It's the "sane" world that's crazy. If only things worked the way you picture it. Knowing what a cash cow a good FKK can be, I would definitely buy stock and invest! And patronize too. I mean, if you own a part of it, then you may as well be a little "hands-on" to make sure the business is up to customer standards right? LOLOLOL![/QUOTE]Sane world claim they are sane to jerk off to beautiful girls in porn videos, but not to fuck them and criticize mongers and we mongers think they are insane, so let call that relationship even LOL!

Only down side is that we mongers have to hide our real selves during our daily lives as I am certain that so called self claimed normal people do not like us saying, I've just been to Germany for holiday and fucked like 15 young beautiful stunners in the place called FKK LOL! They want to hear some thing like, I've just been to Germany and I went to many museums LOL! Well I need more than that in my life LOL!

[QUOTE=Turgid;2481332]I visited the Czech Republic in 2008 and had a great time there with beautiful Czech and Slovak women. I really enjoyed my summer visits to France in the early 2000's and had relations with sexy French women at Cap D'Agde beach. I had fun times in Denmark, Sweden and the Netherlands in the 90's.[/QUOTE]In 2000's, let stick to Germany LOL! Or Zurich, there is something in Germany speaking part and eros LOL!

The business model would be renting facilities to girls and punters at fixed rates (as is already the case) as opposed to direct a cut of the girls earnings. The girls would be able stock in the company, and so would punters, and all would become invested evangelists and sales people the same way that Apple Computer users promote their iTards / fondleslabs as the greatest thing since the invention of fire, the wheel and agriculture. An FKK has the advantage of greater choice, socialization, a lower cost of amenities to people ratio (unlike an apartment that is a ultra short term cum and go, rather than linger and repeat). So no, it is not pimping, but rather a specialized hotel that enables a certain "destination lifestyle" just as a ski lodge next to the lifts enables hassle free access to the slopes.

Paradise should have made a fortune, but as the documentary "Mega Brothel" explains, it expanded too much and ran too much debt, and could not get enough customers. Part of that was greed rather than price-demand optimization curves of start low, hook 'them, and reel them in with gradual price increases rather than a naive "must balance the pro-forma now". Listing a company is not so much to raise capital, but to create a base of evangelists and normalize the industry as a real business rather than run by dodgy owners. It blew up because of tax evasion (greed) on top of an already suspect business. Imagine a well run, strong governance company with transparency where punters and the girls (past and future) are owners and with "skin in the game" (literally and figuratively) keep a beady eye on operations and introduce repeat business discipline rather than short term profits (ie where bean counters are mean spirited and kill the golden goose). This has never been done as far as I know. My basic idea is: take out the sleazy people, provide a responsible, steady dividend that is shared. Stockholders get theirs. Governments get theirs. Punters and girls can earn points and trade for equity, or buy direct. It is their club, and they will look after it, just as condo owners protect common property and talk up their condo complex.

The real message is: those that play have a real interest, not a hit and run, fickle punt. This is the same concept behind frequent flyer points, but here, people get real quarterly dividend checks.

SKIN IN THE GAME!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2481057]Short answer is Korston is pretty low brow. Would not recommend after you know the alternatives. We did it in a side room on a beat up leather couch. It was pretty great at the time. Prices have gone up so those are best covered in Part 3 (skipping part 2 here) below. Only club detail covered in Part 2 (which includes semi naked Karaoke as the waitress brings platters of sushi and jack and coke!) is that ALL the girls in a Russian club are for hire. Not just the dancers the hostesses, the bar maids, the waitresses! My epic sushi and jack experience was with a pair of hot barmaids!

Here is Part 3 with good detail on rooms and pricing..[/QUOTE]Thanks Steve for sharing this with us. Really enjoyed reading it. Never been to Russia but this gives good insights into what to expect. I have heard that visa can be hassle for US citizens, but will take a look at Russian forums for more details. Thanks!!

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2481455]The business model would be renting facilities to girls and punters at fixed rates (as is already the case) as opposed to direct a cut of the girls earnings. The girls would be able stock in the company, and so would punters, and all would become invested evangelists and sales people the same way that Apple Computer users promote their iTards / fondleslabs as the greatest thing since the invention of fire, the wheel and agriculture. An FKK has the advantage of greater choice, socialization, a lower cost of amenities to people ratio (unlike an apartment that is a ultra short term cum and go, rather than linger and repeat). So no, it is not pimping, but rather a specialized hotel that enables a certain "destination lifestyle" just as a ski lodge next to the lifts enables hassle free access to the slopes.

Paradise should have made a fortune, but as the documentary "Mega Brothel" explains, it expanded too much and ran too much debt, and could not get enough customers. Part of that was greed rather than price-demand optimization curves of start low, hook 'them, and reel them in with gradual price increases rather than a naive "must balance the pro-forma now". Listing a company is not so much to raise capital, but to create a base of evangelists and normalize the industry as a real business rather than run by dodgy owners. It blew up because of tax evasion (greed) on top of an already suspect business. Imagine a well run, strong governance company with transparency where punters and the girls (past and future) are owners and with "skin in the game" (literally and figuratively) keep a beady eye on operations and introduce repeat business discipline rather than short term profits (ie where bean counters are mean spirited and kill the golden goose). This has never been done as far as I know. My basic idea is: take out the sleazy people, provide a responsible, steady dividend that is shared. Stockholders get theirs. Governments get theirs. Punters and girls can earn points and trade for equity, or buy direct. It is their club, and they will look after it, just as condo owners protect common property and talk up their condo complex.[/QUOTE]Then there goes some of us mongers who fly half the way around this planet to attend nights of sexual fantasies LOL, but it is worth every mile and every euro we spent LOL! Every cent we do not spend on beautiful young prostitute at stunner levels are waste of money and waste of life LOL!

I mean what else are there? Good food, good travelling and young beautiful girls one after another, this is men's dream come true LOL!

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2481455]The business model would be renting facilities to girls and punters at fixed rates (as is already the case) as opposed to direct a cut of the girls earnings. The girls would be able stock in the company, and so would punters, and all would become invested evangelists and sales people the same way that Apple Computer users promote their iTards / fondleslabs as the greatest thing since the invention of fire, the wheel and agriculture. An FKK has the advantage of greater choice, socialization, a lower cost of amenities to people ratio (unlike an apartment that is a ultra short term cum and go, rather than linger and repeat). So no, it is not pimping, but rather a specialized hotel that enables a certain "destination lifestyle" just as a ski lodge next to the lifts enables hassle free access to the slopes.[/QUOTE]So how do you handle BBBJs in your system?

A saving grace of FKKs, as opposed to more traditional German brothels, including Paradise, has been the fact that being a regular, or doing a tip, still gets Johns a BBBJ in spite of the CBJ law. Of course escorts will do what they choose in their private incall or in the customer's hotel room. And the supposedly sleazy current management of the FKKs, including some reported motorcycle club-type folks, will look the other way regarding BBBJs. I am doubtful that will happen in your REIT / Operating Company structure even if the shareholders own the REIT. The landlord still has an obligation to make sure no crimes occur on the property. So better nix those reviews regarding BBBJ, which will of course hurt marketing. The older a guy gets, the more important that a BBBJ is for an erection, and the older guys have the money. That older guy is just going to get a Sugar Baby instead of shelling out the money for a Europe trip if he knows he is going to get stuck with a CBJ at your publicly-traded FKK.

PahllusMaximus, sir, I read each and every post of yours word to word, and it gives me the experience of a short-term teleportation to a mysterious magical world inhibited by a better evolved civilization. I thank you for that. If a marriage certificate could expire in 30 minutes we might solved all sorts of legality issues with prostitution. Quantitatively, what is the difference between quick fuck with a woman in a private room or being married to her at a conjoined housing for 30 years? All multiplied by time spent together plus minus minor adjustments. Second grade math. Satisfy moral beliefs of puritanistic society by accepting a girl writing down her name at a publically traded FKK to be an official signage of a dinky marriage certification. Sworn by a theke, witnessed by video surveillance and the next couple waiting for a key at the reception.

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2481455]The business model would be renting facilities to girls and punters at fixed rates (as is already the case) as opposed to direct a cut of the girls earnings. The girls would be able stock in the company, and so would punters, and all would become invested evangelists and sales people the same way that Apple Computer users promote their iTards / fondleslabs as the greatest thing since the invention of fire, the wheel and agriculture. An FKK has the advantage of greater choice, socialization, a lower cost of amenities to people ratio (unlike an apartment that is a ultra short term cum and go, rather than linger and repeat). So no, it is not pimping, but rather a specialized hotel that enables a certain "destination lifestyle" just as a ski lodge next to the lifts enables hassle free access to the slopes.

Paradise should have made a fortune, but as the documentary "Mega Brothel" explains, it expanded too much and ran too much debt, and could not get enough customers. Part of that was greed rather than price-demand optimization curves of start low, hook 'them, and reel them in with gradual price increases rather than a naive "must balance the pro-forma now".[/QUOTE]Sex forum turned cloud funding LOL, but in reality, I think to be the owner of German FKK, you got to be one foot into shady world or you will face problems from both shady people and also from all kind of government including police which is the real mafia LOL.

It is curious industry, but I do think there are a lot of their own rule in this industry which do not welcome new comer LOL As an example, there was a big plan and actual construction for new big FKK near Potsdam in Berlin, construction stopped half way and now plan is long gone, why? I can only guess for my own misery as it would be ideal to have second big FKK in Berlin LOL!

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2481463]So how do you handle BBBJs in your system?

A saving grace of FKKs, as opposed to more traditional German brothels, including Paradise, has been the fact that being a regular, or doing a tip, still gets Johns a BBBJ in spite of the CBJ law. Of course escorts will do what they choose in their private incall or in the customer's hotel room. And the supposedly sleazy current management of the FKKs, including some reported motorcycle club-type folks, will look the other way regarding BBBJs. I am doubtful that will happen in your REIT / Operating Company structure even if the shareholders own the REIT. [/QUOTE]Why would the managers of a public company care about a practice that only happens behind closed doors? BBBJ and other illegal activities would continue as before.

[QUOTE=Samplerr;2481516]Why would the managers of a public company care about a practice that only happens behind closed doors? BBBJ and other illegal activities would continue as before.[/QUOTE]It is not illegal because we fell in love during the act LOL!