Safe Sex and Sex Related Discussions in Thailand

in my younger days here (well, more like about 4-5 years ago) , i got into the habit of taking the condom off during intercourse. it started with removal and cumshot on the belly ala japanese porn, and then i got to doing things like putting on a bit too much lube to make it easier to slide off by 'accident', and then to condom sabotage by pinching just a bit of the condom creating a small tear which inevitably lead to the entire condom tearing with only the ring left intact, then finally to outright removal when they weren't paying attention during doggy style or a position change. loved that contrast in feeling between sheathed and bareback. for the most part, the girls did not appreciate it one bit. some to the point of getting rather loud about it. often did creampie endings and then acted all surprised about it when we were done and that usually kept the situation in check a bit because it made it appear more 'accidental. ' some didn't care and just went over to the tub or shower to wash themselves out. a very elite handful opted for seconds bareback. all of those girls got 3-5k tips.

glad i'm through that phase though and made it through relatively unrep001hed.

[quote=chill out;1265208]what wolven said. you are comparing apple to pears and talking about extremes to justify your behavior. you are the guy doing 60mph without a safety belt saying "yeah but some others do 100mph and they are high, too!". that is not going to save you (or your female passenger) when you crash your car.[/quote]i see myself more like the guy doing the speed limit, but not wearing a seat belt around my waist because it gives me gut cramps so painful i'd need a steady diet of tylenol 3's. but i still have the safety of the airbag in case of accident, and i have reduced my chances of a serious collision by other safety practices like the way, when, and where i drive. in so doing i am probably as safe or safer than most drivers who wear a seat belt religiously. clearly the difference in feeling between my wearing a seat belt and not wearing one is immense. which includes every time i drive for the rest of my life.

[quote=chill out;1265208]in my lifetime of using condoms (thousands of sex acts) i've had very few condoms failure. maybe 10 in total. 15 at the very most.[/quote]what was the nature of these incidents. broken condom, slip a bit, came off inside her, cum spilled over the edges, a small hole or slit from fingernails, jewelry, etc? do you do the water leak test after having sex with a condom to prove it was not damaged.

[quote=chill out;1265208]80% of those in my teens when i didn't know what i was doing.[/quote]"using condoms improperly. this is a biggie! you'd be amazed how many studs just don't know how to dress for success!"

[url]http://www.thebody.com/[/url]

forums / aids / safesex / q185380. html? h96o.

[quote=chill out;1265208]very few since then. in every case i realized it and was out of the girl within seconds.[/quote]some guys don't realize the condom has been compromised in one way or another and keep pumping till unloading within the lady.

[quote=chill out;1265208]let's make that a minute for argument's case and you get 15 times x 1 minute = 15 minutes of risky bareback with strangers in my lifetime (and that's a very generous estimate).[/quote]". one study found that semen exposure from a broken condom was about half that of unprotected intercourse; semen exposure from a slipped condom was about one-fifth that of unprotected intercourse. [67]"

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/condom[/url]

"a large body of research in the united states has shown that rates of breakage, caused by fault in the condom itself, are less than 2 condoms out of every 100 condoms. studies also indicate that condoms slip off the penis in about 1 to 5 percent of acts of vaginal intercourse and slip down (but not off) about 3 to 13 percent of the time.

"various studies have shown that knowledge and familiarity with the use of condoms reduce the likelihood of condom breakage and slippage during sex. 10 a major factor that can lead to a condom breaking or slipping off during sex is it's size, as this can affect how easy it is to put on and how likely it is to stay on. different sizes of condoms are available, and it is important to make sure that the condom being used is the correct fit."

[url]http://www.avert.org/condoms.htm[/url]

[quote=chill out; 1265208]i was bareback in the girl for maybe 10 seconds. did i use that as an excuse to say "condoms don't work"? no, i did a one minute search in 7/11, found the right package for me in thailand, and started to use that.

how many condom failures did i experience since then? zero.[/quote]of course your alleged personal experience with condoms is not representative of the norm nor relevant to the big picture of worldwide condom effectiveness.

"the perfect use pregnancy rate of condoms is 2 percent per year."

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/condom[/url]

iow each year one in fifty couples using condoms correctly and consistently will have an unwanted pregnancy.

"like my married friends, who didn't want children ever, and only used condoms. as the girl would get too fat on the pill. 2 kids in the next 4 years."

[QUOTE=Dash Riprock;1265938]It started with removal and cumshot on the belly ala Japanese porn, and then I got to doing things like putting on a bit too much lube to make it easier to slide off by 'accident', and then to condom sabotage by pinching just a bit of the condom creating a small tear which inevitably lead to the entire condom tearing with only the ring left intact, .[/QUOTE]After confirming what sort of guy you are, ..... well used to be, I hope you are truly reformed.

[QUOTE=Bowerboy;1265503]For me its not just the increased sensation but rather something physcological about a girl that would allow you to fuck them bareback. It is somehow so much more raunchy. If a girl asks me to use a condom then I definitely will and indeed the fact that she has asked takes away the physcological thrill anyway.[/QUOTE]Think of non-condom insisting the girl as the one that is bound to have Gonorrhea, Chlamydia, Gential warts, etc. All thrown in. She just has low standards or will do anyone for a few Baht. She accepts cum for all guys, including Farangs and Thais. Is that exciting? Not to me.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1265664]Don't fool yourself, sex with ladies of the night in Thailand is considered "high risk behaviour" whether with or without latex.[/QUOTE]High risk of what? There are many risks, with vastly different parameters, and lumping them all in together means little. Condoms give added protection to many of the well known risks.

If you refer to HIV, then fucking well chosen Bangkok ladies of the night with condoms, has not been shown to be high risk behaviour. Riding a motorcycle would be far more risky.

Sex with amateurs could well be more risky for catching some diseases, than with pros. Anyway I suggest you consider giving up sex altogether. ;)

I do screen to some extent. Try to aim for girls that I feel are at the "cleaner" or "nicer" end of the spectrum. Visual inspection before DATY etc etc. Of course its not foolproof but I definitely wouldn't just go bareback any old where.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1265998]Think of non-condom insisting the girl as the one that is bound to have Gonorrhea, Chlamydia, Gential warts, etc. All thrown in. She just has low standards or will do anyone for a few Baht. She accepts cum for all guys, including Farangs and Thais. Is that exciting? Not to me.[/QUOTE]

[quote=syzygies;1265994]after confirming what sort of guy you are, . well used to be, i hope you are truly reformed.[/quote]well, i still speed in both large and heavy and light and fast vehicles, don't use stop losses on some stock trades, employ semi-skilled laborers to do construction work. i'd say those are all more things that are dangerous to myself and those around me.

[QUOTE=Syzygies; 1266000]High risk of what? There are many risks, with vastly different parameters, and lumping them all in together means little. Condoms give added protection to many of the well known risks.

If you refer to HIV, then fucking well chosen Bangkok ladies of the night with condoms, has not been shown to be high risk behaviour. Riding a motorcycle would be far more risky.

Sex with amateurs could well be more risky for catching some diseases, than with pros. Anyway I suggest you consider giving up sex altogether...[/QUOTE]Allow me to elaborate on the phrase "high risk".

The topic is sex & HIV, not "riding motorcycles", climbing Everest, swimming the English channel, or being a soldier in Afghanistan.

No risk for HIV would be abstinence or masturbation. Low risk would be faithful monogamy and non penetrative "outer-course" sex activities. High risk sex is intercourse or penetrative sex with people who have multiple or many sex partners, such as prostitutes, especially in places like Thailand where they often engage in BBFS and HIV rates are relatively high.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe_sex[/url]

Hopefully that clarifies my meaning.

As to exactly what level of risk is involved for a barebacker in Thailand, it is estimated the HIV risk to the insertive partner in vaginal sex is 1 in 2000. If there is a 1 in 10 or 10 percent chance the reciever is infected, then:

"If we take Degan's number of 1/2000, and use 10% infection in the target group (and that is probably too large, but we'll go with it) , we arrive at 13, 862. 6 sexual encounters to have a 50% probability of infection. That's a different partner every single day for about 38 years, and then it is only even money you are infected."

Actually I'm not sure how he got 13, 862, rather than 10, 000. According to my calculations the barebacker doing it once every day would get infected, on average, once every 54. 79 years (2, 000 X 10 = 20, 000/365 = 54. 79). Odds are high that I'd die of other causes before I ever caught HIV, if I were a senior citizen when I started bare-backing.

According to a Thai government study the rate for HIV amongst female sex workers is 2. 79 percent. At that rate a barebacker would be looking at being infected once every 71, 680 sexual encounters (35. 84 X 2000 = 71680) , or about once every 196 years, if he had bareback sex every day. If he had bareback sex once a week or month, then his chance of getting HIV is once every 1378 years or 5973 years. IOW once every 17 or 77 lifetimes, respectively, of 78 years each.

So the lifetime [78 years] odds of getting HIV from bareback sex once a month are about the same as these lifetime odds of dying in a car accident.

1. In a car accident. 1 in 83.

2. In a plane crash. 1 in 5000.

3. From murder. 1 in 210.

4. Walking across street. 1 in 625.

5. From drowning. 1 in 1100.

6. From falling. 1 in 210.

7. From lightning. 1 in 80, 000.

And HIV doesn't even kill you.

Being circumcised, finding your TG HIV negative, and your safety level for bareback sex just went up about a lot, probably at least 4 or 5 times more favorable than the figures mentioned earlier.

"Odds of fatally slipping in bath or shower: 2, 232 to 1.

"Odds of being the victim of serious crime in your lifetime: 20 to 1.

Fire or smoke. 1 in 1116.

Suicide. 1 in 121.

Electrocution. 1 in 5000.

Cancer. 1 in 7.

100's of other possibilities.

"Estimated per-act risk for acquisition of HIV by exposure route"

"Estimated infections per 10, 000 exposures to an infected source"

"Insertive penile-vaginal intercourse. 5 (.05%)"

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV[/url]

#Transmission

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1266104]Clearly the difference in feeling between my wearing a seat belt and not wearing one is immense. Which includes every time I drive for the rest of my life.[/Quote]That's really what it's all about for you. The feeling. Then man up and admit that this is what you want (and damn the risks) , and stop trying to justify it in other ways.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1266104]Broken condom, slip a bit, came off inside her, cum spilled over the edges, a small hole or slit from fingernails, jewelry, etc? Do you do the water leak test after having sex with a condom to prove it was not damaged.[/Quote]Almost always slipping, a few times breaking.

I've done the water test for years, it never leaked even once, so I don't even bother anymore. Condoms are very strong and will not break once you know what you are doing.

Your stats do not mean anything except that some people do not use condoms correctly, which is to be expected (Some people are dumb....News at 11) but not to be copied or used as an excuse to stop doing it.

If I told you 15% of guys get ripped off and wildly overpay in Bangkok because they don't know what they are doing, would you strive to do the same as well?

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1266104]And HIV doesn't even kill you.[/Quote]Of course not. It's just like getting the flu.

How could people believe in an ordinary scientist such as this guy (not the rocket one) who makes a major claim.

Some people want to be famous by making a controversial claim.

I believe more in the view of Department of Health of the country.

Forgive me if I am wrong, but I have seen some barebackers here are trying to persuade other punters to enter into their world making the rest of us more expose to the risk as there will be more people get infected and transfer their virus to other people.

But I agree by the end of the day it is you who will decide whether you want to enter into this world in exchange of more pleasure with bareback.

[QUOTE=Chill Out;1266247]I've done the water test for years, it never leaked even once, so I don't even bother anymore. Condoms are very strong and will not break once you know what you are doing.[/QUOTE]I think this one might be irrelevant to the real world of punting as most of the time punters get their condom from the WGs.

So the one you have tested might be not the same quality with the one supplied by the WGs,

Also keep in mind, the ability of a condom for "not to break" will also depend on the age of that condom to a greater extent.

You will never know if a WG is supplying a condom which is close to expire date or even already expire.

You could only negate this issue if you are using your own condom. But I have found especially in Europe some WGs do not let you use your own condom.

I myself have been in the situation a few times where the condoms were broken.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl; 1266104]Allow me to elaborate on the phrase "high risk".

(snip) [/QUOTE]I think your calculations are off by several orders of magnitude.

Assume 1 in 2000 SW are HIV infected and that the transmission rate is 10. I do not know if this is correct, I just use your figures for the sake of argument.

That means that at each and every sex act you have a 1 in 2000 chance to meet an infected sex worker or 1999 in 2000 chances to meet a clean one. When meeting an infected on, you have 90 chances in 100 not to be infected.

So each time you have unprotected sex you have 1999/2000 + (1/2000 x 90/100) chances not being infected afterwards. That is a chance of 99. 95% (or p = 0. 9995).

Assume you will have 3 times sex a week (say 150 times per year) for the next 20 years, that is 3000 sex acts in total.

Your chances to remain uninfected then are 0. 9995 * 3000 (* means "to the power of") , or 0. 860705, or about 86. In other words after 20 years of unprotected sex three times a week, you will have 14% chance to become infected with HIV.

Now assume a condom gives you 85% protection (I think it is much more, but let's leave it at 85%). Then your chance of not getting infected at each sex act becomes 1999/2000 + (1/2000 x 98. 5/100) or 0. 9999925. And your "20 years at 3 times / week" score gets up to 0. 9778 or almost 98 per cent. Your 14% lifetime "bad" chance has just dropped to a bit over 2 per cent.

Having unprotected sex is therefore 7 times as risky as having protected sex. QED.

I rest my case.

[QUOTE=Adindas; 1266266]How could people believe in an ordinary scientist such as this guy (not the rocket one) who makes a major claim.

Some people want to be famous by making a controversial claim.

I believe more in the view of Department of Health of the country.

Forgive me if I am wrong, but I have seen some barebackers here are trying to persuade other punters to enter into their world making the rest of us more expose to the risk as there will be more people get infected and transfer their virus to other people.

But I agree by the end of the day it is you who will decide whether you want to enter into this world in exchange of more pleasure with bareback.[/QUOTE]I fully agree with you and I would urge all to read.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV_and_AIDS_misconceptions.[/url]

[QUOTE=Chill Out; 1266247]Almost always slipping, a few times breaking.

I've done the water test for years, it never leaked even once, so I don't even bother anymore. Condoms are very strong and will not break once you know what you are doing.[/QUOTE]Your post seems self-contradictory. They "will not break" but a "few times breaking". It would be silly to assume that condoms cannot ever be partially defective. Condoms do break from time to time, and I like quite thin ones, which probably break easier. Has happened to me on several occassions, maybe more than once per year. The reason is not totally clear other than I like to fuck for extended time. Some girls like to change condoms midway, but this tends to be a mood spoiler. Was it her long fingernails, or something else sharp or rough? Girls sometimes contribute to condom breakage by putting sponges inside the pussy that can rub against the latex and break it. I generally insist that girls remove strange things in there. Perhaps some condoms are just slightly defective and can rip with extended stretching pressure. I use plenty of lube, which can contribute to slipping specially when using large condoms (I don't like condom to feel excessively tight) but I don't believe it will cause breakage. I have heard that oil can cause condom to deteriorate, but I don't use that.

Normally if condom slips or breaks, I know about it immediately. Its very rare I have actually cum inside the girl, but this can happen if condom slips off during orgasm.

I probably use well over 200 condoms per year. Did you test at least 1000 for strength?

[QUOTE=PinkPearl; 1266104]Allow me to elaborate on the phrase "high risk".

The topic is sex & HIV, not "riding motorcycles", climbing Everest, swimming the English channel, or being a soldier in Afghanistan.

<cut

7. From lightning. 1 in 80, 000.

And HIV doesn't even kill you.[/QUOTE]Sorry, I thought the topic was "safe sex in Thailand", not HIV specifically. I am generally more concerned about other diseases that are much easier to get.

I think my chances of dying from AIDs (leaving aside testing HIV+) are probably less than being hit by lightning, so like Wolvenvacht, I don't believe all your statistics.

I have only known one acquaintance that died of Aids, and he was in a high risk group (gay hairdresser). My ex boss's sister died from being struck by lightning. Its not that different. Okay more famous people are thought to have died of Aids than struck by lightning, but most were in high risk groups, such as gays or drug users.