Angeles City

I posted in the Makati section too.

I went to AC for 3 days on the Swagman bus. Both this bus and the southern cross bus are old buses. For the expensive fair, I would think it would be primo service. And the Swagman bus forgot to pick us up at the wild orchid, we had to get a lift over to the Swagman hotel. Not good service.

From a few years ago, things are really booming in AC. There are high rise condo and hotel towers going up, and I think they are taking the prices with them. Massages were expensive. I didn't bother to barfine a girl. I took a massage girl off of walking street and it was 500 and she wanted 3 k to screw, wouldn't BBBJ, and wanted 500 for topples HJ. I agreed, then when she balked at letting me tits F her, I gave her 100 p tip and kicked her out.

I got a BBBJ at one of the remaining BJ bars. It is always good there. The girls are older usually, but always good service. What was 750 is now 1000 p though. Again with the inflation. I expect prices to keep rising. And I hope the town doesn't keep on clamping down on the P4 P scene if it wants to fill those high rise towers it is building. Who is to be all those rooms except single guys wanting cheap fun for the night?

[QUOTE=Ikksman;1820683]Agreed! I am not a lawyer but have had the need to interpret legal contracts for many decades. I clarify the usual lengthy sentences by applying simple grammatical rules, without changing any of the words or the sequencing of words (and then of course the lawyers claim that what I write is not correct legalese haha).

Interesting to note that all posters who read the legislation (except me of course haha) automatically mentally corrected the following error without realising it: [I]"who in (10) years"[/I] should have read [I]"who is (10) years"[/I].

[I][blue](b) Any person who shall keep or have in his company a minor:
1/ twelve (12) years or under, or
2/ who is ten (10) years or more his junior
in any public or private place, hotel, motel, beer joint, discotheque, cabaret, pension house, sauna or massage parlor, beach and/or other tourist resort or similar places {S N I P}[/blue][/I]

And the meaning is now clear.

Ikksman[/QUOTE]All these quotes about the law & legislation in the Philippines are nonsense. Bottom line is that the police in the Philippines are a part of the criminal class, whether it relates to scamming foreigners (and Filipinos), putting bullets and white powder into travellers bags in NAIA airport or stopping cars for traffic violations (so called).

[QUOTE=Fastpiston;1821021]All these quotes about the law & legislation in the Philippines are nonsense. Bottom line is that the police in the Philippines are a part of the criminal class, whether it relates to scamming foreigners (and Filipinos), putting bullets and white powder into travellers bags in NAIA airport or stopping cars for traffic violations (so called).[/QUOTE]Thank you. This is the only post in this endless repetition of legalese that shows any understanding of the reality on the ground. Foreigners here don't get to parse legal phraseology. If scammed they pay or they go to jail.

GE.

[QUOTE=VicVeg;1820997]I posted in the Makati section too.

I went to AC for 3 days on the Swagman bus. Both this bus and the southern cross bus are old buses. For the expensive fair, I would think it would be primo service. And the Swagman bus forgot to pick us up at the wild orchid, we had to get a lift over to the Swagman hotel. Not good service.

From a few years ago, things are really booming in AC. There are high rise condo and hotel towers going up, and I think they are taking the prices with them. Massages were expensive. I didn't bother to barfine a girl. I took a massage girl off of walking street and it was 500 and she wanted 3 k to screw, wouldn't BBBJ, and wanted 500 for topples HJ. I agreed, then when she balked at letting me tits F her, I gave her 100 p tip and kicked her out.
[/QUOTE]So basic consensus is guys from countries like S. Korea and the Middle East have now totally ruined the party for us that are in Europe or US? I've seen it, but now this seems to be the case EVERYWHERE in SEA? No more getting super hot girls from clubs or bars, because those have now increased prices 2 X. Our only options now as the low men on the totem pole, since we don't pay stupid prices, is pulling from what used to be the 2nd string locations?

Makes me want to spend less time on the hobby and just focus on GF in SEA. Middle Eastern & Korean guys are not what girls want for a real BF.

WL.

[QUOTE=WanderLuster;1821345]So basic consensus is guys from countries like S. Korea and the Middle East have now totally ruined the party for us that are in Europe or US?[/QUOTE]IMO, I would put it this way. The hordes of tourist from Korea, Japan, US, Europe, and Australia have ruined the party for the BUDGET tourist.

Some people on this board blame the Koreans for the girls not wanting to do LT, wanting tips, being selective, and even double lady drinks. These are points for debate.

But there are good points for the hordes of tourist. Remember the mid-2000 (talking to the non-fakes out there). A lot less girls; less mega-clubs. Quality of the girls was lacking. Good looking girls (IMO) did not want to come to Angeles for half of the approx. 1200-1800 peso barfine. There are more better looking girls now than in 2003 (of course you have the same marginal looking girls (which many guys like...which is great).

[QUOTE=WanderLuster;1821345]Korean guys are not what girls want for a real BF.[/QUOTE]Another point for debate. IMO, many girls like / prefer the Koreans because they say they're more culturally similar. But of course, what most of the girls want for a REAL boyfriend is the green or the green card (US term).

[QUOTE=GreenBud;1821541]Some people on this board blame the Koreans for the girls not wanting to do LT, wanting tips, being selective, and even double lady drinks. These are points for debate.
[/QUOTE]I experienced AC from '92 on. This was certainly before the Koreans arrived but after the Yanks left. Several bars open, but you could find a lot of bars with few girls and no customers. There were also a lot bars that had gone bust and remained shuttered. LT was the deal. Little pressure for lady drinks.

By the mid 90's AC had picked up. Koreans were going Cebu at this time. It was more business friendly for investors and considered safer. I think the first major Korean investment in AC was the purchase of the Chicago Park Hotel. Boracay becomes a honeymoon destination for Koreans.

In '97 was Korea's economic meltdown. Many younger Koreans who had been going to the States and Canada to study English shifted to cheaper locales. The Korean economy was in the doldrums for a few years but Koreans started investing in Ermita and later AC.

Mid to late 90's the rise of the Internet makes places like Pattaya and AC better known. Prior it was word of mouth.

By mid noughties Korean penetration into AC and Puerto Gallera really picked up. A lot of development of AC clubs. Korean economy had recovered and more Koreans visit the Philippines for golf, sex and English.

The these-girls-are-for-Koreans-only thing is indeed a Korean thing. It was a common practice is Korea's RLD outside those that service foreigners such as Itaewon and the camp towns; Koreans had the notion that foreigners were AIDs carriers, so as you wandered around there Korean blokes would shout out "AIDs" as you passed by. The girls in the windows would turn their backs to you. A place gets the stigma of catering to foreigners and the Koreans will shun it.

In the Philippines the Korean model is quite different from the Japanese model. The Japanese by and large developed their own places and pretty much patronised them exclusively. The Koreans enter existing places, take them over to a degree, and then expand in the area. Places that remain blended have a distinct two-tier vibe. If a girl who caters to Koreans gets the rep of going with non Koreans this can lose her business. Some do, but they tend to be discreet about it. Get her mobile number and arrange to meet outside away from Korean eyes.

For about two decades now the rising and now major player in AC has been the Koreans. They're the investors and the customers. Changes, good or bad, have been most influenced by them. Korea doesn't have a tipping culture except for a few businesses such as the bath house if you get a scrub, the gold course caddy, and the sex business, and tips there can be large.

Since the late noughties there have been more Indians and Chinese making their way to the Philippines and AC. Maybe 10 years from now the Koreans will be complaining about them.

Since '92 what has changed in the region? The Japanese economy lost at least a decade. Korea blossomed. China rose. For the punter, he has lost Korea - except for the Japanese punter it was never major foreigner draw, but it was quite good, and by the early noughties most of the bar girls working in foreigner-patronised places were Russian and Filipino. Cambodia and Vietnam both came on the scene. In Thailand Hua Hin developed. Bangkok's Soi 33 rose, but it's declining nowadays. Nana Plaza has really boomed; it was there in the early 90's, but it didn't get the huge number of customers as today. Manila lost the Ermita bars and Pasay gained the EDSA International Complex. Burgos pretty much the same. AC has grown. Cebu's bikini bars I found in the early 90's are gone. I can't speak much for China as I've only partied there a couple of time, and it seems quite good, but it is not the easily accessible places we find in Thailand, the Philippines and Cambodia. It'll be interesting to see how Burma develops.

[QUOTE=Hutsori;1822208]The these-girls-are-for-Koreans-only thing is indeed a Korean thing.[/QUOTE]It's also a Japanese thing in some places in Tokyo (from what I've heard).

[QUOTE=Hutsori;1822208]If a girl who caters to Koreans gets the rep of going with non Koreans this can lose her business. Some do, but they tend to be discreet about it. Get her mobile number and arrange to meet outside away from Korean eyes.[/QUOTE]I've talked to many of the popular girls in Angeles. Many of them only go with East Asians. I ask them why. Many will say I don't know. Some will say, culturally similar or easier, or small dicks. I still haven't gotten into the head of the Filipina's mind.

In Angeles, assuming most of the popular girl's cliental are tourist. Assuming the girl's reputation will not be known to most of the tourist. Not sure how big the Korean ex-pat market is.

Also, the popular girl's reputation (if she goes out with non East Asians) won't matter on how much business she gets because she gets barfined every single day, with her choice of customers (her choice on ethnicity).

Above statements apply to the popular girls, working on the larger bars on Fields. Some of the smaller, mainly Korean-only cliental bars, with Korean owners and managers might be different. Hence, Hutsori's above comments might be more accurate for these bars.

[QUOTE=GreenBud;1822402]

I've talked to many of the popular girls in Angeles. Many of them only go with East Asians. I ask them why. Many will say I don't know. Some will say, culturally similar or easier, or small dicks. ........................[/QUOTE]The world does not stand still, it changes. We have got to innovate to survive.

Filipinos think short time. If they thought long term, they might change their attitude towards Western man, cause a lot of them have married Filipinas in the past, giving the girls long term stability. That was our lure in days of old, the prospect of marriage. I don't see any evidence of the Koreans marrying Filipinas. Will the Filipinas come to their senses and secure their long term future? No point waiting to see. Innovate to get a date. Upgrade your modus operandi, as best you can. Don't forget the K's they admire are quite often half our age. Maybe a major investment in plastic surgery? LOL.

[QUOTE=GreenBud;1822402] I still haven't gotten into the head of the Filipina's mind.[/QUOTE]Me neither but as long as it's so damn easy to get into their pussies I don't care, LOL!

[QUOTE=GreenBud;1821541]IMO, I would put it this way. The hordes of tourist from Korea, Japan, US, Europe, and Australia have ruined the party for the BUDGET tourist.

Some people on this board blame the Koreans for the girls not wanting to do LT, wanting tips, being selective, and even double lady drinks. These are points for debate.

But there are good points for the hordes of tourist. Remember the mid-2000 (talking to the non-fakes out there). A lot less girls; less mega-clubs. Quality of the girls was lacking. Good looking girls (IMO) did not want to come to Angeles for half of the approx. 1200-1800 peso barfine. There are more better looking girls now than in 2003 (of course you have the same marginal looking girls (which many guys like...which is great).

Another point for debate. IMO, many girls like / prefer the Koreans because they say they're more culturally similar. But of course, what most of the girls want for a REAL boyfriend is the green or the green card (US term).[/QUOTE]Super useful response, GreenBud. My knowledge is an A on some of these topics, but you filled some gaps where I'm a C grade. I haven't heard others say that with quantity of guys more girls stepped in to the scene both for p4 P or GF with foreigners: at least not in a way that is any better now for Westerners OR those from Korea. Guys seem to complain 10 years ago in Angeles or elsewhere in PH was much better. I will say, from my experience, Cebu of 2006 vs. LA Club or Club Havana or good bar scene in Manila circa 2015 was 2 X better. Would LOVE to go back to Mango Ave, Cebu of 2005 vs. Manila of 2015. I worked there 1/2 the year, but also was in Manila working in 2015 for shorter time. Manila did not impress vs. 2006 Cebu!

As for the GF w / westerners vs. Japanese vs. Korean, I think it goes both ways. Some PH girls like Asian guys, other PH girls like Western guys, both w/ bars and GFs.

I'd just say it's hard to deny the P4 P scene is worse for those on a budget AND w / more money now because of more Asian tourists from the now wealthy countries on the continent like S Korea. I think they've also brought up prices for what used to be a 100 USD BF and is now 200 USD for a 9, a decade later. The Interwebs changed everything, but I wonder if they brought more girls to the hot-spots for those of us that travel to meet women or if they mostly just brought more guys and a higher price-tags, less good looks/personality, GF or otherwise.

WL.

[QUOTE=WanderLuster;1822920]Super useful response, GreenBud. My knowledge is an A on some of these topics, but you filled some gaps where I'm a C grade. I haven't heard others say that with quantity of guys more girls stepped in to the scene both for p4 P or GF with foreigners: at least not in a way that is any better now for Westerners OR those from Korea. Guys seem to complain 10 years ago in Angeles or elsewhere in PH was much better. I will say, from my experience, Cebu of 2006 vs. LA Club or Club Havana or good bar scene in Manila circa 2015 was 2 X better. Would LOVE to go back to Mango Ave, Cebu of 2005 vs. Manila of 2015. I worked there 1/2 the year, but also was in Manila working in 2015 for shorter time. Manila did not impress vs. 2006 Cebu!

As for the GF w / westerners vs. Japanese vs. Korean, I think it goes both ways. Some PH girls like Asian guys, other PH girls like Western guys, both w/ bars and GFs.

I'd just say it's hard to deny the P4 P scene is worse for those on a budget AND w / more money now because of more Asian tourists from the now wealthy countries on the continent like S Korea. I think they've also brought up prices for what used to be a 100 USD BF and is now 200 USD for a 9, a decade later. The Interwebs changed everything, but I wonder if they brought more girls to the hot-spots for those of us that travel to meet women or if they mostly just brought more guys and a higher price-tags, less good looks/personality, GF or otherwise.

WL.[/QUOTE]They have brought: higher prices; bad attitudes; preference for short-time; more rookie mongers; more be and see grade girls; more attention from anti-mongering organizations and corrupt extortionist authorities. For Westerner mongers with a decade or more in the hobby, the hot-spots have definitely declined.

The hot-spots will continue to evolve into something very different from what it was before the Korean tsunami struck. Perhaps they will keep moving towards the KTV show bar model where Asian mongers make it rain pesos to impress their friends and associates while running up huge lady drink tabs. Some be and see quality venues will still be available for Western mongers but they will continue to be less and less of a priority as more of the K-pop crowd arrive shoving aside Westerners.

This trend is probably more of an issue for oldsters. Younger Western guys do not seem to be interested in the hobby and Flip girls in general. In the past couple months I have seen numerous young Western male tourists in the Philippines and with few exceptions they were with quite attractive Western girls. Rising airfares, new economic realities worldwide, and worsening security conditions in the Philippines will make it less appealing as a mongering destination for new Western hobbyists. The Philippines department of tourism has announced that its new strategy is to focus on attracting tourists from India, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Iraq. This shift to generating tourism from Third World and conflict zones occurred after the recent bullet planting scam and warnings from Western embassies to their citizens to avoid areas in the Philippines that were previously considered safe. It seems that the government has given up on trying to attract tourists from civilized industrial countries.

In any part of the world once the mongering spot becomes well known everything changes. All mongers are guilty of overpaying, causing shitty attitudes from prostitutes etc. When the girls learn they can get away by demanding lots of money they will use that knowledge. As far as we are concerned we can look for the best girls possible but there will be failures. Cannot blame any of this on certain group of people.

[QUOTE=Sammon;1823858]Cannot blame any of this on certain group of people.[/QUOTE]Well I place the blame on those that buy all those damn lady drinks and pay more than 1000 pesos for LT. These are the guys who have ruined the place.

[QUOTE=Sammon;1823858]In any part of the world once the mongering spot becomes well known everything changes. All mongers are guilty of overpaying, causing shitty attitudes from prostitutes etc. When the girls learn they can get away by demanding lots of money they will use that knowledge. As far as we are concerned we can look for the best girls possible but there will be failures. Cannot blame any of this on certain group of people.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;1823905]Well I place the blame on those that buy all those damn lady drinks and pay more than 1000 pesos for LT. These are the guys who have ruined the place.[/QUOTE]

Everyday hundreds of planes land at Swampy and Ninoy Aquino bringing in more and more horny, lonely guys from all over the world. I blame the internet for making it so damn easy for guys to learn about SE Asia and get over their reticence about trying something risky and unknown. Before the internet, travel was for the adventurous and information was spread person to person and mouth to mouth. You had to be somewhere already before you would likely hear about some club or bar with sexy girls worth checking out. Most of these new types of travelers would never have even contemplated coming to a place like AC, MNL, BKK or Pat before the internet. The pre-internet days were the golden era of punting worldwide. It is only going to get worse from here in out unless the world goes into a severe global depression lasting a decade or more. I am sorry to sound so pessimistic. I would love to be wrong.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;1823909]Everyday hundreds of planes land at Swampy and Ninoy Aquino bringing in more and more horny, lonely guys from all over the world. I blame the internet for making it so damn easy for guys to learn about SE Asia and get over their reticence about trying something risky and unknown. Before the internet, travel was for the adventurous and information was spread person to person and mouth to mouth. You had to be somewhere already before you would likely hear about some club or bar with sexy girls worth checking out. Most of these new types of travelers would never have even contemplated coming to a place like AC, MNL, BKK or Pat before the internet. The pre-internet days were the golden era of punting worldwide. It is only going to get worse from here in out unless the world goes into a severe global depression lasting a decade or more. I am sorry to sound so pessimistic. I would love to be wrong.[/QUOTE]Well again it all comes down to supply and demand. Back in the 90's they were few mongers coming to Angeles city so the girls were more willing to do GFE and were looking for a long time sponsor because they did not know when they might get there next costumer. Fast forward to 2016 and with the age of the internet, There are so many tourist coming to Angeles city, So they can afford to give a shitty attitude and poor service because if a girl is attractive enough she can get bar fined everyday.

Even me as a monger I have changed when it comes to women. I have more options to fuck so many beautiful women from Brazil-Asia sleeping with 100's of women every year, That when I come back to the USA, I treat these westernize women like shit and they like me a lot more because I have I don't give a fuck attitude and are not sweating them or putting them on a pedestal, like so many guys in the America. It shocks them when you treat them like shit and are not putting up with there attitude.