Kyiv

[QUOTE=AntonySun1996;2258755]Well, I guess that there are significantly different growth rates of the economy in Kiev and in other parts of the country. The capital city has been booming due to the inflow of foreign cashes (from sex tourists in particular), while the smaller cities and rural areas of the country stay poor.[/QUOTE]Urban areas are almost all growing throughout the world. Kiev is no exception especially with its tech talent and the movement from the East. Sex tourism has been on the decline the last five years.

[QUOTE=Riina;2259062]Sex tourism has been on the decline the last five years.[/QUOTE]Or so it seems.

There are no official statistics in regards of amount of sex tourists, but I feel that although some sex tourists have chosen not to go to Ukraine anymore due to the civil war or increasing costs or other factors, this decrease is offset by inflow of new sex tourists thanks to the visitor-friendlier visa policies of the current ukrainian regime. Chinese citizens were granted visa-on-arrival policy two years ago, which opened door for many chinese mongers including myself, and will be granted e-visa next year. Many other nationalities can enjoy the policy too.

[QUOTE=Habeed;2258279]Checking that chart, it's dipped twice now, once in 2009 and once in 2015. About 10% drops each time. 10% doesn't sound like much, and the relative advantage that mongers from richer countries have should be similar...snip...[/QUOTE]Official GDP doesn't reflect that every other girl in Kiev flashes iPhone X (because otherwise, as I was told by my GF, she is left behind). It also doesn't reflect Porsches, Mercedeses, Lexuses, Bentleys and other luxury cars driven through downtown and in suburbs. And we are not talking cheap old Mercedes, but rather 600 SEL and such.

One may say that all resources of certain particular individuals are invested in iPhones and cars, but this is not the case. There is substantial wealth due to lower cost of consumer basket. Dentists, lawyers, haircuts, good restaurants, apartments rental or ownership, girlfriends, drinks- everything costs less, making one think that developed countries are more successful in milking their own citizen, leaving them with enough money only for Toyota Camry and Honda Accord at best. There are those as well in Kiev, but to my subjective perception density of expensive cars downtown Kiev is higher than in a similar size Western city.

I would also say that total cost of consumer basket has been going up for the last 3-5 years, but anyway, all of the above has been stated to emphasize that official GDP numbers per capita doesn't reflect the actual affairs in Ukraine die to sizable chunk of real GDP still staying in grey shadow.

Just returned from 3 weeks in Kiev. Awesome! Going through the usual rehab. Will try to report, if my blubbering is of any use to Forum.

Hi guys,

Is it worth to go for Ukraine for new year?

Do no really have a plan for now. Was just thinking about.

Thanks.

Sebastian.

[QUOTE=Wastilein;2260647]Hi guys,

Is it worth to go for Ukraine for new year?

Do no really have a plan for now. Was just thinking about.

Thanks.

Sebastian.[/QUOTE]AFAIK many students leave for their home towns and villages after passing finals. There will be sufficient action, but some of the regulars from prior visits may not be present.

The city itself is already beautifully decorated. YMMV. If I had a chance for NYEve, I would go. In fact, if I had an opportunity, I would never leave Kiev. For a short term first time visit though, - one may find Kiev cold and empty.

This past 3 weeks visit of mine wasn't that much different from New Year's Eve, at least not weather-wise.

I had 2 failures, one of them was total and complete, short of me kicking the girl out, except she was way too tired falling asleep while undressing, and I was in a peaceful mood.

I also had 9 exceptional ladies, 5 more were acceptably fuckable, and many were repeats from this trip and from not so distant past.

Amazingly incomparable!

Been lurking this forum for many years and got some really good advises.

I've been mostly to Germany. Frankfurt, Berlin and Hamburg and visited many FKK: s.

Now I am heading to Kiev 26-31 December and wondering if you guys have good recommendation for escorts I can whatsapp with with legit photos?

I've heard there are a lot of fake photos so you have to be aware hence my question if there are links to legit escorts with good service that do incall (I'm sharing apartment so can't be at my place).

Mamba seems a little complicated as then you have to make contact, talk / chat and then maybe dinner and then maybe something more as they say sponsorship, or is Mamba the best way forward if I want a girl every day 27-30 December (4 days = 4 different girls) and should I start mamba now then, what are the chances they do incall compared to escorts announced on the web?

Should I start to whatsapp and getting in contact with escorts now to arrange time and place or is it still too early?

And please, if you have web-links and / or number to girls you know is legit, please share them in this thread.

I am in my mid 30's, athletic, good looking and a dancer if that helps in Kiev?

I will also as I heard that many on this forum complains about members never contribute to the site with their info, will soon post reports from all the FKK's I've been to in Germany with both pros and cons and failures as well to avoid.

[QUOTE=Wastilein;2260647]Hi guys,

Is it worth to go for Ukraine for new year?

Do no really have a plan for now. Was just thinking about.

Thanks.

Sebastian.[/QUOTE]The week before News Years is pretty good, but after New Year the city will be dead. Most girls come back around the 15th, but everything is changing in Kiev, so it maybe slightly different, give or take 1 or 2 days.

I felt a little bored after my Christmas holiday started so here I am, in Kiev again.

The city is quite cold right now with snow everywhere but this is not important.

I'm kinda risk-averse person so instead of meeting new girls, I decided to stick on my current girl friends. However I did make some progress.

Remember in my previous reports I have mentioned that my local agent tried to charge me a highly unfair amount? Not anymore. I added the girl on Instagram and viber and we started to make contacts P2P, cutting the greedy agent off.

We agreed on an amount around $1200 for two days but later made it $1500 for three days. I knew some forum members would still say that I overpaid, but I'm still satisfied about this deal, considering my agent tried to charge me like $3000 to 4000. IMHO it doesn't matter if you overpay or not, what is important is that you gradually get familiar with the games here and get smarter each time to get better deals than your previous trips.

About the girl:

Body 10.

(Height 5'9' with model-like figure, booty ass, long legs, milky pale skin, small tattoos).

Face 7 or 8 ish.

(Not the prettiest face I have seen, but her perfect body makes her imperfection of face totally neglect able. 100% kissable. We enjoy french kisses).

Service 6-10.

(The first day she did pretty well. We had sex several times a day in nearly all possible positions that I could handle, with passion or horniness. The second day went less well. She was angry in the morning for not having slept well and was reluctant to sex, but I took the initiate and she was happy again after a nice orgasm. However from the morning of the third day she became angry and refused to get up. She accused me of touching her boobs and fingering her pussy all night while she was asleep. That accusation, of course, was exaggerated since I just did it a few times because I couldn't control myself not to do that. Anyway, we had some fight and she went back to sleep for almost the whole day. We had a rough sex later in the evening though, when she was happy again.).

I will still be in Kiev for next few days and will meet another girl from my previous trips. Will report if there are any useful stuffs.

What happened to Barba and little Joey?

Does Mamba not allow VIPs to change location anymore?

[QUOTE=Rog123;2263547]What happened to Barba and little Joey?[/QUOTE]IMHO one of the frequent reasons for Senior members departure / disappearance from the Forum is simple. They establish a network of reliable female contacts in Kiev, and neither seek help anymore, nor see any sense in posting their reports here.

My last visit was yet again one of the best, although different in the way that I wasn't chasing them women anymore. The opposite happened.

Why didn't I post a report? Well, for many reasons. Would it be useful? Maybe as an essay on the subject, but certainly not as an information source. I cannot post WhatsApp or Viber phone numbers of my contacts. I do exchange with few well respected members via PM in a mutually beneficial manner, and am rather thankful to this Forum for such an opportunity.

The rest has been explained here over and over: GIA / KEC vs. Apartments vs. Rio vs. Websites and so on and so forth.

Waiting for the next visit.

[QUOTE=AntonySun1996;2263490]...We agreed on an amount around $1200 for two days but later made it $1500 for three days. I knew some forum members would still say that I overpaid, but I'm still satisfied about this deal[/QUOTE]Better rate than GIA / KEC. $200-300 is OK for 3-6-8 hours, but risky when the girl is new, and precisely for the reasons you explained below.

[QUOTE]The first day she did pretty well. We had sex several times a day in nearly all possible positions that I could handle, with passion or horniness. The second day went less well. She was angry in the morning for not having slept well and was reluctant to sex[/QUOTE]That is why I try booking an apartment with 2 bedrooms or good sleeping sofa in the living room. Then both myself and my visiting lady can get a good night's sleep. Or sometimes my girlfriend sleeps separately, and I have visitors in the relative privacy of my bedroom)).

[QUOTE]but I took the initiate and she was happy again after a nice orgasm. However from the morning of the third day she became angry and refused to get up. She accused me of touching her boobs and fingering her pussy all night while she was asleep. That accusation, of course, was exaggerated since I just did it a few times because I couldn't control myself not to do that.[/QUOTE]Hehehe. Exactly! I am the same, and try to sleep separately, or no one is rested in the morning.

In my many years only a handful of girls were constantly horny. One of them, employed at GIA at the time, was all smiles whenever I woke her up, but that is rare.

Another GIA-employee didn't allow me to depart to the other bedroom, yet towards the end of our 10 days "tenure", she asked literally:

- Don't you ever get tired of this? Where do you find this level of energy?

She likewise tried to decline on our last day right before leaving, then succumbed, but looked tormented during the act. Fortunately it didn't hurt my feelings or fragile male ego, but helped to decide not to seek this particular lady anymore. In fact I realized that 2-3 days together is realistically the reasonable limit for staying together.

And yet another GIA employee tried to extort cash while not delivering in bed, thinking too much of the control her beauty, femininity and sharp brains had over me. Her reckless behavior resulted in my sooner and more frequent than usual promiscuity, while she was at work in the office. This was followed by rather abrupt eviction and no further contact attempts.

[QUOTE]Anyway, we had some fight and she went back to sleep for almost the whole day. We had a rough sex later in the evening though, when she was happy again.).[/QUOTE]Make no mistake. She certainly liked $1500 she made, and wanted to leave a good final impression, so that you would return.

At least you were in Kiev, and could have diversified at any moment. Imagine how much more leverage she would have had over you, if it happened on the trip together somewhere else. Still I know one successful gentleman, who never hesitates to politely kick them out lazy cheaters, -- being it in Kiev, or Thailand (with Ukrainian girl), or anywhere else.

It is always a game of the girl testing how little she can get away with. Some are more open and passionate on the second encounter, while others became too spoiled and lazy. And I don't want to fight or explain. It is not my place to teach them a lesson. So much easier to say goodbye, ignore, block in Viber+IG, and invite another willing one. So far it's possible in Kiev.

One important question though: did you pay her the whole fee upfront? I wouldn't.

It is fine line though. Some of us pre-negotiate all the conditions in detail. I prefer to see how much I can gain, as the action unfolds. Than it gives me more pleasure. But few things are mandatory, and by quality of initial kissing and touching I can quickly assess how good it is going to be, even before we make it to bed.

Going on the tangent here, my favorite call girl 3 weeks ago in Kiev was on her first day working. After exiting from the shower, she took a seat on my bed, sipped champagne and said (with a noticeable concern):

- They do not let us kiss.

I responded in a very respectful manner:

- Yes, I most definitely understand and respect that.

Then touched her lips tenderly with mine, and in a split of a second we went for a long DFK. What can be better? Not even a DATY with the girl who initially firmly refused.

This September I had 3 new girls one after another progressing to a complementary DATY. Typically agency asks for 500-1000 UAH on top of the regular hourly fee. One girl had an audacity to demand an extra pay for touching her breasts. Or was it kissing them? Do not remember anymore.

And this November-December trip has been great in a sense that most girls were willing to meet bypassing the agency dispatchers. Again, complimentary DFK, DATY with half of them, and on some occasions, - a passionate 69 with BBBJ, twice even to completion.

With one beauty I didn't dare to come, and in the heat of the moment asked her:

- Do you realize how difficult it was for me to restrain myself, and not come in your mouth?

She smiled and answered:

- No, I actually do not.

[QUOTE]I will still be in Kiev for next few days and will meet another girl from my previous trips. Will report if there are any useful stuffs.[/QUOTE]Please do. You are sincere in your observations, which makes them worthwhile sharing.

You are totally right Photoslider. Same for me, I am one of them who were trying to convince that Rio. In the end. Is the better deal. But no understanding and of course different tastes. I am here for 2 weeks again (after about 15 visits this year) and don't post anymore. I am more relaxed here and the same happens to me, I am not hunting anymore. I go out with friends here with no expectations and get to know new girls. And every once and a while I hit Rio like last week. She stayed entire Night and we left Rio at 08:30 pm (She left my Hotel at 01:00 pm next day. 400 USD for whole Night, that's 25 USD / HR. And she was (in my eyes) a 9! So I like Kiev nowadays, it has changed. But I like this change and I come even more often.

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2263944]IMHO one of the frequent reasons for Senior members departure / disappearance from the Forum is simple. They establish a network of reliable female contacts in Kiev, and neither seek help anymore, nor see any sense in posting their reports here.

My last visit was yet again one of the best, although different in the way that I wasn't chasing them women anymore. The opposite happened.

Why didn't I post a report? Well, for many reasons. Would it be useful? Maybe as an essay on the subject, but certainly not as an information source. I cannot post WhatsApp or Viber phone numbers of my contacts. I do exchange with few well respected members via PM in a mutually beneficial manner, and am rather thankful to this Forum for such an opportunity.

The rest has been explained here over and over: GIA / KEC vs. Apartments vs. Rio vs. Websites and so on and so forth.

Waiting for the next visit.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2263958]One important question though: did you pay her the whole fee upfront? I wouldn't.[/QUOTE]No I don't. I don't mind paying upfront, but she since she didn't mention it, so I gave her the money in the last day.

[QUOTE=AntonySun1996;2265530]I don't mind paying upfront, but she since she didn't mention it, so I gave her the money in the last day.[/QUOTE]And I don't mind when guys richer than me pay more than I can afford. Word gets out that there is big money to be earned from sex tourists and that makes more girls willing to be semi-pros, which is good for all of us. Yes, the rumors of $1500 for 3 days might cause some girls to raise their rates, but they will soon find the supply of big spenders is not that large and so lower their rates back to a level I can afford.

What I mind is when market participants encourage bad behavior, which exactly what paying in advance does. Losses due to bad behavior cause the marketplace to shrink as everyone adjusts prices to compensate (girls raise their prices, mongers lower theirs) so that the market no longer clears. Fine example is DramaFree11. Wants to monger, can afford going rates, assigns very high cost to feeling of being cheated, and since cheating is so common in Kyiv, finally abandoned the market entirely.

There is absolutely no reason to pay for three days in advance, and also no reason to delay payment until the third day. I wouldn't accept such delay if I was the girl. Pay one day at a time, money on the table until end of day. You were lucky this time, but you really need to put your foot down in the future.

The argument I plan to use, assuming I ever have to replace my jewel, is that only cheap restaurants like McDonald's make you pay in advance. At fine restaurants, you pay after eating. Does the girl think of herself as cheap takeout or fine dining? Before she can reply, I will offer to put money on the table until end of session, bills spread out out so they can be counted by eye. I didn't need to use the preceding argument with my jewel, since she understood immediately what I was up to: money was spread out on the table when she arrived, she had the good manners to leave it there until she was packing up to leave, and that's how we operated ever since. Back when I was using those hidden agencies, I also didn't use the preceding argument but rather had the girl call the agency and then shouted into the phone that either money remained on table until end of session or deal was off. Shouting like that not exactly the way to make a good first impression on a girl, of course.

And no, do not ever put money in an envelope. Either spread bills so they can be counted by eye or insist that girl count in your presence. Reason is YOU might make an error. If so and girl doesn't notice until later, then either she says nothing and feels wronged or she tells you and you suspect her of lying. Bad deal all around. Always count cash in front of the other person, for any type of business.