Kyiv

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2267821]Just finishing my second trip to Moscow in the last 2 months. I probably met 40-60 new people throughout my trips. Probably 8-10, where from Ukraine. Even though I am trying to avoid Ukraine like the plague it follows me everywhere.

All said that Ukraine was finished and there is no future there. One of the girls told me that 70% of her friends had left the country, some come back for Visa reasons, but are trying to leave the country full time now. She said that the people that our left can not leave because of age, have figured out how to make a decent living in Ukraine or have failed in there travels. Take this for what is worth, but you need to think about this when you are planning a trip to Kiev, it is only going to get worse.

When I lived in Kiev all people talked about was leaving the country, that was 4 years ago, I can only imagine what it is like now.[/QUOTE]This post, is appropriate for today discussion. Others are posting about people wanting to leave Kiev, it is a huge problem, it is important for Newbies, to understand how big of an issue this is. This one of the main reasons for the decline of Kiev and in influx of S. Tour.

[QUOTE=Riina;2272201]I'm referring to a girls friends. They all have friends looking for greener pastures. I meet some young hot Ukrainians sometimes and I have no chance with them specifically. But they got girlfriends that would kill to come to my country. When they connect me to a FB link of a close friend, first thing I say is boys should help girls and start inferring sponsorship to grab attention. Plus the hot chick I never had a chance with now has a motive to stay friends with me. Try it. It works.

The truth is most girls that land in America eventually become disgusted with Western culture.[/QUOTE]Nice, Report, I met several that went to America, and almost 90% failed, for one reason or another. Back in the day the number was lower, now they are more spoiled and have more options, I would say the chance of success are very slim, just to different of life, that being said if they put in the hard work, they could adapt fairly quickly, just not that difficult if you prepare and are not afraid of hard work.

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2272312]Western world for Ukrainian girls with their life habits is a jail, just like for many of us, international mongers. And I am not talking about them Ukrainian girls being lazy, and not willing to work. It is about personal freedom, and enjoying their youth, of being loved and admired for looking so hot. Instead of accumulating debts and criticized for behaving too sexy.[/QUOTE]Yeah and it counter balances well with older guys that already have money and are no longer interested in economic slavery.

[QUOTE=Riina;2272503]Yeah and it counter balances well with older guys that already have money and are no longer interested in economic slavery.[/QUOTE]Mister Riina knows a thing or two about worldwide mongering! Even under the most hostile circumstances he found prosperity in more than one way.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2266576]...Well we differ, and that's good. What a boring world if we were all the same!...[/QUOTE]This is one of my favorite posts on this Forum!

The art of civilized dispute, and respectfully disagreeing.

To be continued for sure!

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2272215]Privacy may not be an issue, but reasonable precautions do not hurt.

1. Separate monger-phone. Physically separate, with no contacts overlap between the two, and no information exchanged via email. The reason is simple: Google, Skype, Facebook, Instagram are intrusive, they constantly hunt and collect information, but what is worse, they reveal it to my contacts.

In the past Gmail and Google Hangouts chat have been offering contacts from the list of my Kiev girlfriends. That is not my list, but theirs. Through the Skype I could see my girlfriends escort agencies names.

It went as far, as for one of my friend's in Kiev his escort learned his real life last name and more through Facebook, suggesting her to connect with him based on his personal phone number.[/QUOTE]I learned this a long time ago in the 90's. I left my phone in the glove box while my girlfriend sat in the car while I went in a shop and then my other girl called. My GF answered the phone. That was some drama for sure.

A phone number / email can tie you to your real name and if you happen to put your dick in crazy, she will be able to reach out to your friends, your work, or post on your Instagram or wherever. I go as far as to make exclusive pics for Mamba / Monger Apps just in case Google Images reverse search works. Girls often do not even delete their Whatsapp / Viber messages. I once canceled a Mamba appointment and then wrote the girl six months later and she sent me a screen shot of me writing that I was canceling our appointment! It blew my mind. So as Slider said, be sure to keep two phones. This is also really handy because you can just turn off your Monger phone when you do not need it in use or when you are back home.

I would never give an escort or Mamba girl my Instagram, but I am pretty popular photographer on Instagram and this has worked well for me on Tinder. Interesting Instagram = interesting foreigner.

[QUOTE=TinyHippo;2273210]...A phone number / email can tie you to your real name and if you happen to put your dick in crazy, she will be able to reach out to your friends, your work, or post on your Instagram or wherever...[/QUOTE]"Happen to put your dick in crazy." What a wonderful way to explain what happens in Kiev, and not always stays in Kiev!

One day, out of the blue, Kiev friend of mine had a question from one of his mistresses:

- Facebook suggested you to me as a friend!

Well, fortunately she was not a crazy, but she surely had her fun, as he looked totally surprised and lost. But she continued:

- I see you are married. How wonderful! Can you tell me a little bit about your wife? What kind of person is she?

And she had the most mischievous smile on her face. Well, he declined any further conversation on the subject, and she treated him in the most gracious way, as she thought that continuing relationship ultimately was to her benefit. But the moment was rather unpleasant. For him. She enjoyed it to full extent.

I also know a guy, that was fired from his lucrative Microsoft job in Bellevue / Seattle after a crazy contacted his employer.

So, the essence of the story: fortified demarcation line and two separate lives, and no overlap. Like between North and South Korea.

[QUOTE]I would never give an escort or Mamba girl my Instagram, but I am pretty popular photographer on Instagram and this has worked well for me on Tinder. Interesting Instagram = interesting foreigner.[/QUOTE]I keep two separate Instagram accounts with different pictures. It definitely grabs girls attention, and in my case not as much my pictures. Girls want to be followed, get attention.

On a separate IG related subject. Today had a request for funds from a lovely lady with supposedly a serious sickness. A little later she posted her new pictures, looking great and everything. Now, about 20 hours later she is miraculously cured. Go figure! Must be one of those cheaters, that are on every corner in Kiev, those vultures waiting to rip you apart and eat alive. Got to stay vigilant, and the best way to fight their attempts is not to go to Kiev at all, and forget about sex for the rest of our miserable existence!

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2273555]So, the essence of the story: fortified demarcation line and two separate lives, and no overlap.
[/QUOTE]For those who have wives, families, jobs, etc, I can see the rationale, but since I have none of those reasons for hiding what I do, I'm sorely tempted to be fully open.

Civilian girls in Kyiv are very suspicious and assume the worst anyway. At my social activities, girls frequently ask where I'm from and why I'm in Kyiv. Some roll their eyes upon hearing that I'm a "tourist", other put on a disgusted face, others seem excited and attracted by the idea that I'm "one of those guys".

I'd actually prefer everyone knew for certain that I was a monger, as long as they also knew I pay typical foreigner prices (about $150 per 4 hour session with my jewel, or $300/ week, plus bonus at my discretion). What I hate is when girls think I'm trying to get sex for free or cheaply in Kyiv.

I have written on GIA a lot, you can look at some of the past points. It should only be use for 2 things:

1. First is you are in Kiev for business quick trip, definitely works great for that.

2. If you are planning on living in Kiev or staying for long periods of time. As others have said get there phone numbers and negotiate. Not sure that is as easy as they say, but you try. Also you need to remember these girls travel a lot, so you probably need 2 or 3. That is going to take some serous time and big budget.

If you are planning on visiting for 4-7 days and plan on using High End Agencies, it is just a waste of money. You can go to many other destinations and hook up with actual real models for the prices guys are paying in Kiev, now for High End Escorts. Anything above $150, for multiple hours in Kiev, is way too much to be with 6's and that is what 90% of them are, maybe a couple of 7's. 6's are very attainable in Kiev, anything else is very difficult for foreigners.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2273596]I pay typical foreigner prices (about $150 per 4 hour session with my jewel, or $300/ week, plus bonus at my discretion). What I hate is when girls think I'm trying to get sex for free or cheaply in Kyiv.[/QUOTE]Your prices are reasonable, not cheap, but very much reasonable for both, consumer and provider, taking into account you do not see your lady every day, and she doesn't stay overnight. Yet I would consider that typical foreigner on average pays considerably higher.

You are unique in many ways. During my last trip I tried to implement some of your principles, and without limiting me, it cut the expenses in half.

[QUOTE=TinyHippo;2273210]I learned this a long time ago in the 90's. I left my phone in the glove box while my girlfriend sat in the car while I went in a shop and then my other girl called. My GF answered the phone. That was some drama for sure.[/QUOTE]1. One of my ladies in similar situations says:

- I am a big girl, I understand.

Still, she may have a sad face, and I do my best to respect her feelings.

2. Another one says:

- I am not your wife or girlfriend. You do what you want to do.

But it is a two way street and some of the girls are attached to their phones with umbilical cord everywhere, managing the candidates. Those are not the keepers. Kozerog explained his view on the subject. I am not that aggressive, I simply dismiss smartphone junkies without explaining much. Philosophy is simple, the two of us should have sufficient interest in each other. My phone is away when we have dinner, or go to Theater, unless there is an exceptional photo opportunity. Then I ask for permission.

3. There was one truly beautiful hot hot hot girl, that decided to answer Viber message about arranging her portfolio photo session while riding on top of me. I expressed my astonishment, and she, in a matter-of-fact style, without slowing down gyrations of her amazing butt, explained that answering right this moment is extremely important to her career advancement.

4. One of the best GFs turned her own phone off for the duration, and didn't answer anything while she was with me or at my residence, even when we were together for multiple days. Considering the level of her addiction to selfies (she did take at least 70 selfies a day on mine, every day, day in and day out), that was some serious self discipline). She also left her phone face up in the bedroom while taking a long shower. There is a high demand for her, as she is one of the best in bed. IMO on the scale from 1 to 10 she is 10 with her attitude and 21 with performance, therefore she is rather confident that she will not be left without attention. Still somehow I was lucky to be with her for a long time before she hardened eventually.

During our days together we agreed not to go for dinner at the same place again. It was interesting, because we both are rather picky, but fortunately Kiev has enough to offer. She looked stunning. Gorgeous hair, stiletto heels shoes, legs probably 1 meter 20 long. And we both had smiles walking into those restaurants, sitting down, and watching the other males turning their heads and dropping jaws. I asked her:

- Are they trying to figure out if I am your father?

And she answered with the smile:

- Why are you sitting so far away? Kiss me please, so that they have no doubts.

5. And another lady used to get Viber messages from her fiancee without hiding anything from me. Didn't even turn over her phone face down on the nightstand next to our bed. Inadvertently I could see that popup notifications came from "Lyubimyi / My Love". She also sincerely asked for my advice about him. She still does, and visibly values it.

Polygamy in Kiev goes both ways.

Hello everyone,

Newcomer in Ukraine here, any recommendation for good club / parties? I'll have one week end of January. Thanks.

[QUOTE=VivalDim;2274049]Hello everyone,

Newcomer in Ukraine here, any recommendation for good club / parties? I'll have one week end of January. Thanks.[/QUOTE]Night Life is bad in Kiev, best stick with Escorts. Friday's are the nights that people do go out, but very hit or miss.

Sorry for the bad news!

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2273856]I have written on GIA a lot, you can look at some of the past points. It should only be use for 2 things:

1. First is you are in Kiev for business quick trip, definitely works great for that.

2. If you are planning on living in Kiev or staying for long periods of time. As others have said get there phone numbers and negotiate. Not sure that is as easy as they say, but you try. Also you need to remember these girls travel a lot, so you probably need 2 or 3. That is going to take some serous time and big budget.

If you are planning on visiting for 4-7 days and plan on using High End Agencies, it is just a waste of money. You can go to many other destinations and hook up with actual real models for the prices guys are paying in Kiev, now for High End Escorts. Anything above $150, for multiple hours in Kiev, is way too much to be with 6's and that is what 90% of them are, maybe a couple of 7's. 6's are very attainable in Kiev, anything else is very difficult for foreigners.[/QUOTE]Could you tell me where is the "other destinations and hook up with actual real models"?

[QUOTE=VivalDim;2274049]Newcomer in Ukraine here, any recommendation for good club / parties? I'll have one week end of January. Thanks.[/QUOTE]There is a wide spectrum of opinions on the subject. However, even with the most optimistic position, or outright negative criticism, in reality no cookie cutter answer exists for Kiev.

What are your requirements for Ukrainian ladies? Can you afford spending $300-400 on a girl from Rio strip club, knowing that after private dance test drive, she may, or may not, live up to your expectations of passionate love making?

What is your age? How successful are you with women in your own environment? Can you talk to the girl that you never met before on the street, when she just finished her University classes, and crossed the street? Can you dismiss rejection again and again, and find the strength to keep trying?

Many newbies succeed on the first one-week try in Kiev. Some report here on their approach in the happiest manner, some don't.

Those that fail, frequently blame Kiev and rarely themselves. Honest ones occasionally find mistakes in their philosophy and behavior, and Forum benefits from their thoughts sharing.

IMHO failure here and there represents statistically random nature of the matter at hand, that is Ukrainian ladies and their love. If you are successful back home, maybe your chances in Kiev are higher. It is definitely not for faint-hearted, but it is not as grim as one would imagine. There's lot of fun to be had in Kiev!

How many pages of this Forum / how far back did you read? All the answers are there. Nobody will create a new digest.