Kyiv

[QUOTE=AntonySun1996;2278355]Thanks for the advice.

The problem is that she is a gem I took great effort to get and I don't think I can just kick her out without regrets. I know her personalities well, and I know that if I threat her to kick her out if she doesn't want to have multiple sex with me, instead of complying, she would actually walk straight out of the door. And I cannot let that happen.

5000 $ is still pending but she already has the handbag, and she seems to be happy about that. I don't want to be tough on her and force her to have at least three times of sex with me everyday. We have already established some sort of personal connections beyond money and sex. She has introduced me to some of her families and friends as her boyfriend, and we have talked a lot about our past and future. Maybe I am naive, but I still want to use soft methods to solve this problem if possible.[/QUOTE]$5000 is too much in my eyes unless you are a millionaire. She will get used to it and soon will be asking for a car. If you really like this girl as a "girlfriend" you need to start to separate money and sex. If not, you must look at her just as an escort. Also remember that girls just like gifts. It could be something small like flowers or perfume. If it is flowers or a gold watch, they will just look at it as one gift. If you are going to spend that much money on her, I would spread out the money to make it look like 50 gifts and not just one huge one. Do you want her bedroom to have one gift from you or 50? Think about it.

The other thing is Slavic and Chinese culture are much different. You need to be the leader. Decide what to do and where to go on dates. Always ask her questions so you know what she likes, but Ukrainian girls like guys that are in control. I am East Asian too and Asian girls can be bossy, but this is really looked down upon in Ukraine.

Also, if you are into blogs, check out Funkybambi Lu on Youtube. I watched a few episodes with my Ukrainian girl since I am from HK too.

I had a question about Travelgirls even though it looks like a scam to me. I had "girls" writing me even before I had a profile photo which makes me think it is full of bots.

Is it mostly pure escorts like Mamba where you can ask to meet and they tell you a price? Or is it more like a Sugar Daddy website?

[QUOTE=Devil1687;2279687]Thank you for your kind words. Well next time will stay for a few more days and warmer month.[/QUOTE]Good positive report, no doubt! Thank you much for lightening up the Forum.

Glad to hear you are coming back. May and September are my favorite in Kiev.

May is beautiful, because scantily clad ladies get out and about. Love and Sex are in the air.

September might be even better because there are no exams at Universities. In fact some of the first year students just joined their colleges, and other ones returned to the Capital City from their towns and villages, and need money and entertainment.

[QUOTE=AntonySun1996;2279515]Well said PhotoSlider. Definitely should have made agreements beforehand. Now I'm just going to see how I can fix this up at this point.[/QUOTE]Well, there are two schools of thought on the subject.

One says, everything should be discussed beforehand. How many times, which orifices are allowed, and which ones are taboo. Money in the open on the table.

This approach works great for many, and I respect it. Even use it myself with hourly call girls.

I prefer the other way though. Negotiate beforehand only the price and duration- 3-5 hours with the new girl. Never commit to multiple days if we never met before. I can however extend the meeting after the first 15-30 minutes, if she's a great kisser, and I can clearly sense that she will be passionate and tender in bed.

During the first meeting I see how far she can go within my sphere of interests, that go beyond just mating. Then I contemplate if I want to spend a sleepover or longer with her. Going for 2-3 days together seems like a reasonable maximum, but no sooner than the second meeting. Anything longer requires truly special admiration going both ways that happens with maybe one out of 30 or 50 girls that I met in my life.

I also very much like when the girl leaves after 16-24 hour stay, and both of us want badly to continue, but one or both cannot at this moment in time. Then meeting again later is so sweet and passionate!

One girl gets 300 USD regardless of our meet duration. Twelve hours or two, she is that good. It would be impossible for me personally to renegotiate her billing rate down.

Similarly, another equally gorgeous and delightful in bed lady gets little less than 1000 UAH for an hour. After more than 5 hours we stay at 5 K UAH.

Another attractive one was always 2000-2500 UAH for overnight including Greek and CIMS.

Those are the conditions and money that I give them in an envelope. We do not count anymore, never even discuss. Girls are happy with arrangements and are eager to meet again, so am I, but I will not go lower. Occasionally I give individual gifts and bonuses.

I do not necessarily calculate how many shots I get per 100 USD or vise versa, how much is one shot in UAH. It is all about customer (me) satisfaction. It is also critically important to me that the lady is happy, both with money earned, gifts received, orgasms experienced, entertainment, and generally speaking both of us having great time together.

Bottom line, your lady will expect 5000 + expensive gift during your next 2 weeks together. And she may do her best to continue this relationship. This touches the subject of Kozerog's LTR philosophy and his business cost analysis. Some may find his way too expensive. I personally think he figured out a great way to mitigate risks and maximize his satisfaction for acceptable investment.

The most important piece is your happiness most of the time. There might be challenges here and there, but as long as you are happy with your girl 80-95% of the paid time together, you are golden.

I do recall at least couple times when I was heart broken after separating from Ukrainian girl. And I was so happy to find a new one right away. The funny thing is, I only remember the feeling of being heart broken, but not those girls names, or faces, or what year it happened.

Kiev is great for healing in the arms of new beauties. Scheduling a threesome is even better, but much trickier.

Forgive my lengthy posts.

[QUOTE=TinyHippo;2279831]$5000 is too much in my eyes unless you are a millionaire. She will get used to it and soon will be asking for a car. If you really like this girl as a "girlfriend" you need to start to separate money and sex. If not, you must look at her just as an escort. Also remember that girls just like gifts. It could be something small like flowers or perfume. If it is flowers or a gold watch, they will just look at it as one gift. If you are going to spend that much money on her, I would spread out the money to make it look like 50 gifts and not just one huge one. Do you want her bedroom to have one gift from you or 50? Think about it.

The other thing is Slavic and Chinese culture are much different. You need to be the leader. Decide what to do and where to go on dates. Always ask her questions so you know what she likes, but Ukrainian girls like guys that are in control. I am East Asian too and Asian girls can be bossy, but this is really looked down upon in Ukraine.

Also, if you are into blogs, check out Funkybambi Lu on Youtube. I watched a few episodes with my Ukrainian girl since I am from HK too.[/QUOTE]$5000, plus gift is insane. You could almost sponsor 2 super hot chicks, every where world, but the states, for the whole month. Makes no sense, but this is Ukraine.

I understand 5000 $ is a big amount in Kiev. What I don't understand is why the girl still won't behave herself and provide with quality sex when I pay this amount. Maybe got spoiled by being paid too much.

BTW, she even brought her sister to my apartment today, chatting and chilling, leaving me in the room alone. That utterly unacceptable.

I don't like to be tough with girls but I guess I have to.

[QUOTE=AntonySun1996;2280373]I understand 5000 $ is a big amount in Kiev. What I don't understand is why the girl still won't behave herself and provide with quality sex when I pay this amount. Maybe got spoiled by being paid too much.

BTW, she even brought her sister to my apartment today, chatting and chilling, leaving me in the room alone. That utterly unacceptable.

I don't like to be tough with girls but I guess I have to.[/QUOTE]You need to cut your loses, and move on. Learn from your mistake.

[QUOTE=AntonySun1996;2280373]I understand 5000 $ is a big amount in Kiev. What I don't understand is why the girl still won't behave herself and provide with quality sex when I pay this amount. Maybe got spoiled by being paid too much.[/QUOTE]You did the smart thing not paying her the full amount yet.

She knows when you depart and is riding it out one day at a time, anticipating that lavish payment. Not many days left before both of you are free.

[QUOTE]BTW, she even brought her sister to my apartment today, chatting and chilling, leaving me in the room alone. That utterly unacceptable.[/QUOTE]This technique is widely used by girls all over the Globe. Cock-blocking! And there is a very simple way to make the best of it.

If my lady brings another girl to my apartment, I ask if it'll be a threesome. If they giggle and decline, I invite one of my friends. He can take care of the other girl, either in a separate bedroom, or at least have a conversation with her in the kitchen, while I retire to the bedroom with mine.

I lay it out before the girls visit, so that there is no misunderstanding and evasive maneuvers upon their arrival.

[QUOTE]I don't like to be tough with girls but I guess I have to.[/QUOTE]Best of luck! Make a decision, and after that life becomes really simple. Be prepared for ensuing SMS and Viber drama, but there is a simple way to block. My explanation in similar situations is curt. With especially presumptuous ones I literally say GTFO in Russian - "Uyobyvaj!

Some of the girls leave "hostage" personal things at my apartment while away at work or college, high heels shoes obviously visible at the front entrance, even cool looking lingerie. That doesn't prevent me from inviting others in the meantime, and certainly doesn't hold me from kicking misbehaving ones out.

I would take a look at these 2 weeks, and count the days that you were happy. Subtract next week, as it didn't happen yet. Subtract her period, as every girl knows her biological cycle, and should not schedule 2 weeks sex around it. Take into consideration 2 K purse you already gave. Do you even have to pay her anything? Does she have any real leverage over you? Like a brother who looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger?

I prefer to avoid conflicts by all means. Civilized relationship is a must, which means decent behavior is expected from both. Some girls want to be pampered just for the honor to have them around, that is their dream in Kiev. Tough shit! You pay well above the aver age, therefore you have a good say in what is acceptable.

BTW, I have no doubt that your object of desire is at least a 9 in more than just her looks. I am also confident that there are other 9's and 10's as well as very much fuckable 6's and 8's available in Kiev for your consolation, empathy and compassion. You have another week.

Yes, some on the Forum would say that mongers like you spoil Ukrainian girls by paying them too much, and letting them to take advantage of you. I do not know about that. You pay what you consider adequate, it is your personal business. And responsibility to request decent treatment, according to your standards, is also yours.

And again, forgive my mentoring. As I said before, you already had good time with her. Good learning experience for many more to come.

[QUOTE=AntonySun1996;2280373]I understand 5000 $ is a big amount in Kiev. What I don't understand is why the girl still won't behave herself and provide with quality sex when I pay this amount. Maybe got spoiled by being paid too much.

BTW, she even brought her sister to my apartment today, chatting and chilling, leaving me in the room alone. That utterly unacceptable.

I don't like to be tough with girls but I guess I have to.[/QUOTE]As the old saying goes, you are not paying them for sex, you are paying them to leave. The high amount you paid her not only set unrealistic expectations for yourself (women are crazy in general and even the best hooker is not a sex robot that can perform on command over multiple days. Didn't you ever see "Pretty Woman" haha? You also probably look like a sucker in the girl's eyes that you would pay that much in the first place. Honestly $5 K in Kiev screams either desperate or rich and dumb. Cut your losses get a more reasonably priced girl for the am for a few sessions then another at night if you want sex nonstop or use the big agency these girls are probably used to getting fucked nonstop for hours.

I never pay exorbitant amounts for an escort even if I could afford it. Once in California I saw an add for a 6-foot redhead with an amazing body and her rate was $400/ HR. My max was $250 but I had to have this woman. She was fat, sweaty and smelly. I have had some bad dates since, but I still remember that one to this day because I regret spending that much. That was 10 years ago! For me the amount of regret I have for a bad session directly correlates with the fee paid.

Good luck!

[QUOTE=TinyHippo;2279831]$5000 is too much in my eyes unless you are a millionaire. She will get used to it and soon will be asking for a car. If you really like this girl as a "girlfriend" you need to start to separate money and sex. If not, you must look at her just as an escort. Also remember that girls just like gifts[/QUOTE]She doesn't like to be viewed as an escort and I don't want to make her think herself as escort. But I have seen the consequences of attempts to separate money and sex.

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2280463]Do you even have to pay her anything? Does she have any real leverage over you? Like a brother who looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger?.[/QUOTE]She is using her beauty as a leverage over me. She knows how much I admire her hot body and is trying to take advantage of it. I have even told her that I want to have serious relationship with her, which her replied that she needed to think about it. I am not sure if this is another mistake I made.

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2280463]Yes, some on the Forum would say that mongers like you spoil Ukrainian girls by paying them too much, and letting them to take advantage of you. I do not know about that. You pay what you consider adequate, it is your personal business. And responsibility to request decent treatment, according to your standards, is also yours.

And again, forgive my mentoring. As I said before, you already had good time with her. Good learning experience for many more to come.[/QUOTE]IMHO it is not the amount of cash I pay that spoils the girl, but my tolerance of the bad behaviours. It has something to do with my personalities. I always try to avoid conflicts and difficult conversations by making concessions, only to make things worse.

[QUOTE=Rog123;2280467]The high amount you paid her not only set unrealistic expectations for yourself (women are crazy in general and even the best hooker is not a sex robot that can perform on command over multiple days.

Good luck![/QUOTE]Maybe I am wrong but I don't think two to three times is too demanding for a girl, as I used to have girls who could do that. It is more of an attitude problem. I would assume it is in general more difficult for guys to perform multiple times of sex than for girls to do so. If a 20-ish girl claims she is unable to have to to three times of sex a day, it is hard for me to believe it's true.

[QUOTE=TinyHippo;2279835]I had a question about Travelgirls even though it looks like a scam to me. I had "girls" writing me even before I had a profile photo which makes me think it is full of bots.

Is it mostly pure escorts like Mamba where you can ask to meet and they tell you a price? Or is it more like a Sugar Daddy website?[/QUOTE]It's a sugar travel website, and in my experience most girls are real.

[QUOTE=TeFab456;2280529]It's a sugar travel website, and in my experience most girls are real.[/QUOTE]Some are agencies, and some of the real girls are asking too much, or do not deliver as expected. The usual statistics. AFAIK it is more expensive than mamba.

Many of girls on the site look quite unattractive to me even on photos. I would rate the majority of the girls there 6-7 based on photos.

Margarita however looks quite hot to me. Would like to try when I get time. Anyone has reviews of this girl?