Stupid Shit in Kyiv

The spirit of Orthodox Easter: This Sunday a group of Ukrainian POW return home.

(click on Cancel then Play): [URL]https://t.me/RVvoenkor/42822[/URL].

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2808001]Anyone who uncritically swallows either the pro-Russia or the pro-Ukraine narrative is a gullible idiot. The only things that matter are actual facts on the ground. Using that as a metric, here are some relevant observations:

I could go on, but the above items make my point. Narratives are fueled in many ways (personal likes, dislikes, other emotional considerations, etc.), but actual facts are stubborn things. People who cling to their preferred narrative are often the same ones who believe they can predict outcomes. The stubborn facts, however, have confounded many such pseudo-experts. I fully expect that trend to continue.

P.S. One's past position on COVID, or any other issue, is completely irrelevant to the Ukraine discussion. A classic red herring fallacy, if ever there was one.[/QUOTE]JM, you do not get out much. There is the American narrative being spun by the Biden administration: Putin is evil, victory is near, Russia is evil, Russia is incompetent, Ukraine is winning, this is a war for Democracy, and like in all wars, if you are not with us, you are against us.

And so then you have this leak from this 21 year old kid: [URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/political/what-we-know-about-jack-teixeira-accused-involvement-classified-documents-leak[/URL].

After enlisting in September 2019, Teixeira became a cyber transport systems specialist. Teixeira has been mobilized for federal duty. Teixeira had top secret clearance and sensitive compartmented access to other highly classified programs since 2021.

A document posted on the social media platform was accessible to Teixeira, and USA Government logs showed that Teixeira accessed the document in February 2023, approximately one day before a social media user placed it on the internet.

The Washington Post reported the documents were posted on a private Discord community or "server" named Thug Shaker Central. "If I had to give a gauge on it, it would be more or less just some nerds wanting to glance over some stuff and compare and contrast and kind of have a little joke about it," an unidentified Discord server member said "At the end of the day, I mean we're just trying to have a fun time. " Discord is a particular favorite among young gamers who use Discord servers to share gameplay clips or stream themselves.

So this kid is playing a video game and starts talking war strategy in his group and no doubt he is combatting the Biden narrative in Ukraine. He gets upset that there are so many falling for the narrative and says, "I will show you" and leaks the documents. He is in this small 20 to 30 person group so he thinks he can get away with it. Well, he is wrong. And the facts in the documents, among them there are USA special forces fighting Russia in Ukraine, are very upsetting and throw the whole Biden narrative into question.

The files he posted are taken down from the internet and the information is called misinformation and disinformation of course.

If you had your head in the sand like JM and John Clayton did with Covid, sure, you can blow this off. What does Covid have to do with anything?

For the rest of us who were sane, it has to do with the fact that 40,000 government officials were scanning social media sites and taking down anything that upset the government narrative on Covid including the safety and efficacy of the vaccine. Among the most stupid and harmful narratives was withholding treatment from people with Covid who were not vaccinated.

Before the orcs were going to kill us all, it was the evil diseased anti-science, antivaxxers.

So when you start talking facts, we know we will hear all about how screwed up this kid is but the real question is: is the information he leaked true? And here is the funny thing about that. No one is denying American special forces are in Ukraine. That may be what is most disturbing, and we have been lied to before.

[URL]https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/biden-meet-german-chancellor-russia-ukraine-tesnions-rcna15190[/URL]

Biden vows USA Will 'bring an end' to Nord Stream 2 pipeline if Russia invades Ukraine.

And amazingly, Nordstream 2 is blown up, an act of war, and the Biden administration uses the handy Democratic excuse, "The Russians did it. " like that makes any sense.

So spare me with your "here are the facts routine". What you have listed is the information we have been spoon fed. And just like with the vaccine, we were spoon fed that the vaccine was a miracle and safe and effective.

The narrative is the USA is in a proxy war with Russia, and somebody like you buys that bullshit. When to someone like me, I take Biden at his word and that he blew up Nordstream 2 and I have not seen anyone say we do not have special forces in Ukraine, so I take that as fact too.

So fuck the proxy war. Right now, the USA is in at war with Russia. Those are the facts as I see them.

[QUOTE=Questner;2808390]The spirit of Orthodox Easter: This Sunday a group of Ukrainian POW return home.

(click on Cancel then Play): [URL]https://t.me/RVvoenkor/42822[/URL].[/QUOTE]If Russia truly cared about the spirit of Easter, they'd pack up their shit and go back to their own country.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2808403]JM, you do not get out much. There is the American narrative being spun by the Biden administration: Putin is evil, victory is near, Russia is evil, Russia is incompetent, Ukraine is winning, this is a war for Democracy, and like in all wars, if you are not with us, you are against us.

And so then you have this leak from this 21 year old kid: [URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/political/what-we-know-about-jack-teixeira-accused-involvement-classified-documents-leak[/URL].

After enlisting in September 2019, Teixeira became a cyber transport systems specialist. Teixeira has been mobilized for federal duty. Teixeira had top secret clearance and sensitive compartmented access to other highly classified programs since 2021.

A document posted on the social media platform was accessible to Teixeira, and USA Government logs showed that Teixeira accessed the document in February 2023, approximately one day before a social media user placed it on the internet.

The Washington Post reported the documents were posted on a private Discord community or "server" named Thug Shaker Central. "If I had to give a gauge on it, it would be more or less just some nerds wanting to glance over some stuff and compare and contrast and kind of have a little joke about it," an unidentified Discord server member said "At the end of the day, I mean we're just trying to have a fun time. " Discord is a particular favorite among young gamers who use Discord servers to share gameplay clips or stream themselves.

So this kid is playing a video game and starts talking war strategy in his group and no doubt he is combatting the Biden narrative in Ukraine. He gets upset that there are so many falling for the narrative and says, "I will show you" and leaks the documents. He is in this small 20 to 30 person group so he thinks he can get away with it. Well, he is wrong. And the facts in the documents, among them there are USA special forces fighting Russia in Ukraine, are very upsetting and throw the whole Biden narrative into question.

The files he posted are taken down from the internet and the information is called misinformation and disinformation of course.

If you had your head in the sand like JM and John Clayton did with Covid, sure, you can blow this off. What does Covid have to do with anything?

For the rest of us who were sane, it has to do with the fact that 40,000 government officials were scanning social media sites and taking down anything that upset the government narrative on Covid including the safety and efficacy of the vaccine. Among the most stupid and harmful narratives was withholding treatment from people with Covid who were not vaccinated.

Before the orcs were going to kill us all, it was the evil diseased anti-science, antivaxxers.

So when you start talking facts, we know we will hear all about how screwed up this kid is but the real question is: is the information he leaked true? And here is the funny thing about that. No one is denying American special forces are in Ukraine. That may be what is most disturbing, and we have been lied to before.

[URL]https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/biden-meet-german-chancellor-russia-ukraine-tesnions-rcna15190[/URL]

Biden vows USA Will 'bring an end' to Nord Stream 2 pipeline if Russia invades Ukraine.

And amazingly, Nordstream 2 is blown up, an act of war, and the Biden administration uses the handy Democratic excuse, "The Russians did it. " like that makes any sense.

So spare me with your "here are the facts routine". What you have listed is the information we have been spoon fed. And just like with the vaccine, we were spoon fed that the vaccine was a miracle and safe and effective.

The narrative is the USA is in a proxy war with Russia, and somebody like you buys that bullshit. When to someone like me, I take Biden at his word and that he blew up Nordstream 2 and I have not seen anyone say we do not have special forces in Ukraine, so I take that as fact too.

So fuck the proxy war. Right now, the USA is in at war with Russia. Those are the facts as I see them.[/QUOTE]Doubling-down on narrative doesn't make it any more true. The general narrative-monger MO is to focus on whatever tends to confirm their preferred version while dismissing or ignoring anything that doesn't.

Let's take the "Proxy War" narrative, for example. There's a singular, foundational fact that I have yet to see any "Proxy War" promulgator successfully address. Here it is:

Russian military forces crossed into Ukraine on Feb 24th, 2022. At 0530 on that date (Moscow time), Putin went on Russian national television to announce the start of a "Special Military Operation".

Question: When Putin made that announcement, was he acting on his own (independent agent) or was he being controlled by one or more others (non-independent agent)?

If you believe that Putin is an independent agent, then that is a fatal flaw in the "Proxy War" narrative. Since the actual start of the current spate of hostilities was ordered and announced by Putin (unless he was somebody's proxy) the more accurate description of the current conflict is that it's a war that began as a direct result of Putin's personal decisions.

Once the (non-proxy) war began, every non-combatant country was free to support whichever side they wanted. In that respect, it's just as accurate to label Russia as a proxy of Iran, or China, as it is to label Ukraine a proxy of the US (or other allies). Nothing that's happened since can change the fact that Putin launched a war of aggression of his own volition.

Switching topics to the intel leak, it's an interesting exercise to consider whether any (or all) of it was planted. I have no idea, but it would be a fascinating intel op to create a controlled release and see what shakes out. It certainly would be an intriguing way to send a message to countries like Egypt, Israel, and the UAE, wouldn't it? BTW, specifically about the Special Ops info, I think you might have bought into someone's embellishment (or come up with it on your own).

[URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65245065[/URL]

"According to the document, dated 23 March, the UK has the largest contingent of special forces in Ukraine (50), followed by fellow Nato states Latvia (17), France (15), the US (14) and the Netherlands (1). The document does not say where the forces are located or what they are doing".

So, as a factual matter, there is no evidence or indication that any of these military assets are engaging in combat. In fact, these numbers are quite consistent with what an Embassy Defense Attache's office might have as a complement. Also, since France has more than the US, wouldn't it be more in line with your narrative to label this a French-proxy War? Or what about a Latvia-proxy war?

Finally, on the topic of Nordstream 2, there are certainly a number of usual suspects, and you've chosen to pick one (the US) while some have chosen to pick others. In fact, there are at least FOUR possible theories:

[URL]https://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-kremlin-russia-who-blew-up-nord-stream-2/[/URL]

AND, in the same meeting from which you drew your Biden quote, here's another nugget:

"Scholz, meanwhile, declined to take a firm stance on the fate of Nord Stream 2, telling reporters that Germany was "acting together" with its allies and promising "very, very harsh" steps against Russia if it invades Ukraine".

So, for anyone looking for an anti-German spin, this could certainly serve as fodder for Theory #5. People are free to swallow whichever theory fits their preferred narrative. As for me, I'm reserving judgment until more facts come to light.

And that's what your narrative-centric post fails to grasp. I specifically reject ANY and ALL narratives that aren't backed up by objective facts. Also, just because one narrative appears to agree with, or confirm, another narrative doesn't meet a fact-based standard of proof. Stacking complementary narratives together is nothing more than a circle-jerk.

And so I repeat, from my earlier post:

"Anyone who uncritically swallows either the pro-Russia or the pro-Ukraine narrative is a gullible idiot. The only things that matter are actual facts on the ground".

I can certainly understand why facts might trouble you, especially those inconvenient for your preferred narrative. But just because Elvis has left the building doesn't mean the rest of us need to follow suit.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2808403]So spare me with your "here are the facts routine". What you have listed is the information we have been spoon fed.[/QUOTE]1. Russia currently controls much less territory than they did in the immediate aftermath of their invasion.

2. Russia appears to be having difficulty replacing modern equipment used or destroyed in battle. The evidence for this is their use of refurbished older tank models and the dramatic decrease in their missile usage.

3. Russia currently has the explicit or implicit support, in the material sense, of China, Iran, and North Korea. Ukraine currently has the explicit or implicit support of the US, most of Europe, and other significant countries like Japan, Australia, Canada, etc.

These are the facts I listed in the post to which you replied. I welcome any substantive, fact-based rebuttals.

The last supper: pass a test on 'the fathers of Ukrainian democracy'.

[QUOTE=Questner;2808779]The last supper: pass a test on 'the fathers of Ukrainian democracy'.[/QUOTE]There's a special circle of Hell that's being newly constructed to receive Little Vlad and his demon hordes. Can't happen soon enough.

[QUOTE=Questner;2808779]I know fuck all[/QUOTE]As our resident expert on democracy, can you tell us how the democratic and free process is going in Muscovy?

You essentially are responding to the same old bullet points that portray Putin as a victim. It's Little Vlad's selfsame angle as it excuses his aggression. The proxy angle also denies Ukraine's agency in their desire to keep and fight for their land. It denies the agencies of many Eastern Euro countries that wanted to join the EU and NATO. It's thus all about the big bad mean boogie man Biden and the USA and Little Vlad in Trumpian fashion is the poor little victim. And the views of the isolationist right are one and the same as Russian propaganda, thus the lovefest. And of course we've been over this all many many times over the last 14 months. I'll said it again, Ronnie Reagan is turning in his grave.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2808403]There is the American narrative being spun by the Biden administration: Putin is evil, victory is near, Russia is evil, Russia is incompetent, Ukraine is winning, this is a war for Democracy, and like in all wars, if you are not with us, you are against us.[/QUOTE]I don't recall Biden ever "spinning" something like "victory is near," or "if you are not with us, you are against us. " Quotes?

Other than that -- what's [I]your[/I] narrative? That Putin is good, Russia is good, Russia is competent, and Ukraine is losing?

Wait. You do believe that Ukraine is losing, don't you? Even though it's liberated 63% of the territory grabbed by RuZZia after February 24.

Not surprisingly, this narrative would be completely in line with that of your lord and savior Donald Trump.

Why are all right wingers so infatuated with Putin? I wish someone could explain.

1st link: Article translated via Google Translate.

2nd link: Original article (in German).

[URL]https://www-t--online-de.translate.goog/nachrichten/ausland/internationale-politik/id_100160712/explosionen-am-nord-stream-russland-schickte-schiffe-an-den-tatort.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true[/URL]

[URL]https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/ausland/internationale-politik/id_100160712/explosionen-am-nord-stream-russland-schickte-schiffe-an-den-tatort.html[/URL]

"The Danish military photographed Russian ships at the Nord Stream crime scene four days before the explosions. The pictures should remain secret.

Denmark confirms t-online research into the Nord Stream attack: There are 112 photos of Russian ships at the scene of the crime. They were made by the Danish Navy four days before the explosions. This emerges from a report in the Danish daily newspaper "Information". The Danish Ministry of Defense confirmed the existence of the images, but wants to keep them secret to protect intelligence work".

So, is this "smoking gun" definitive evidence? Absolutely not! But it is the result of research, by a German news organization, into the movement of Russian ships based in Kaliningrad. They then followed up with a request to the Danish government (I'm assuming the equivalent of a FOIA request), and received confirmation of their findings. Read the article for more details, and to form your own impressions, but that's what I see as the gist of it.

Whatever the true story turns out to be (if it's ever fully known), there's no doubt that this kind of investigative reporting is head-and-shoulders above Hersh's use of a single (completely unverifiable) anonymous source, posted solely on his personal blog. Furthermore, it's noteworthy that this evidence is presented in stand-alone form, without a specific narrative being pushed.

Congratulations on the 240th anniversary of Crimea becoming part of Russian Empire. There is a rumor that by May 5, 2024 everything is going to be over and Cirque de Soleil will present the following piece at the International Circus Festival of Monte-Carlo:

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2809010]1st link: Article translated via Google Translate.

2nd link: Original article (in German).

[URL]https://www-t--online-de.translate.goog/nachrichten/ausland/internationale-politik/id_100160712/explosionen-am-nord-stream-russland-schickte-schiffe-an-den-tatort.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true[/URL]

[URL]https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/ausland/internationale-politik/id_100160712/explosionen-am-nord-stream-russland-schickte-schiffe-an-den-tatort.html[/URL]

"The Danish military photographed Russian ships at the Nord Stream crime scene four days before the explosions. The pictures should remain secret.

Denmark confirms t-online research into the Nord Stream attack: There are 112 photos of Russian ships at the scene of the crime. They were made by the Danish Navy four days before the explosions. This emerges from a report in the Danish daily newspaper "Information". The Danish Ministry of Defense confirmed the existence of the images, but wants to keep them secret to protect intelligence work".

So, is this "smoking gun" definitive evidence? [/QUOTE]We don't need the "definitive evidence". No one will ever be prosecuted for this crime. However, this will be yet another nail in the coffin of the Russian narrative in the arbitration case against them.

Not that it matters anyway. They began reducing the flow long before the blasts. By the time of the explosions, the delivery had been halted for weeks.

Evidence or no evidence, Gasprom (Russia) will pay up.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2808966]You essentially are responding to the same old bullet points that portray Putin as a victim. It's Little Vlad's selfsame angle as it excuses his aggression. The proxy angle also denies Ukraine's agency in their desire to keep and fight for their land. It denies the agencies of many Eastern Euro countries that wanted to join the EU and NATO. It's thus all about the big bad mean boogie man Biden and the USA and Little Vlad in Trumpian fashion is the poor little victim. And the views of the isolationist right are one and the same as Russian propaganda, thus the lovefest. And of course we've been over this all many many times over the last 14 months. I'll said it again, Ronnie Reagan is turning in his grave.[/QUOTE]It's quite clear that the Putin butt-boy apologists will never change their tune or beliefs, but that doesn't mean it's not worthwhile to expose their error and bile.

There are a few reasons why I take the time to respond: first, it's amusing to puncture their pseudo-logic and propaganda; second, it allows me to sharpen my argument for use with people with whom I interact IRL; third, it's possible that some article I find, fact I highlight, or argumentation point I make, might prove informative or useful to other forum members.

Besides, making fun of Kremlin fanboyz is like shooting fish in a barrel!

[QUOTE=Questner;2809064]Congratulations on the 240th anniversary of Crimea becoming part of Russian Empire. There is a rumor that by May 5, 2024 everything is going to be over and Cirque de Soleil will present the following piece at the International Circus Festival of Monte-Carlo:[/QUOTE]Have you seen the latest? Russian women are being encouraged to learn Mandarin so they can attract a nice Chinese husband!

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSq4qO-QbJo[/URL]

There is a rumor that by May 5, 2024 everything is going to be over and Putin will be presented as the official jester at the International Circus Festival of Beijing.

ROFLMAO! Comrade Xi must be licking his chops (sticks)!