Havana

[QUOTE=Beersterry]Posted before but, Points to Ponder:

1. Cuba is a third world country with first world prices

2. Prostitution is illegal in Cuba and is actively enforced. This is not to say all relationships are illegal. Cops seem to be able to tell for the most part as he has probably seen the girl with other extranjeros.

3. Because of #2, girls are afraid, especially if there is a crackdown. If there is a crackdown, it will be difficult to find girls.

That is why you have to go to Cuba for something other than finding girls. If you don't, then you will not be disappointed.[/QUOTE]I agree with both BeersTerry and TravellinGringo

I would like to add to BT's 2nd point: "This is not to say all relationships are illegal. Cops seem to be able to tell for the most part."

In my own experience I have seen how the crackdown also affects normal girls (non-pros). Because of the ongoing crackdown against prostitution, many normal girls are afraid to be seen with foreigners. Maybe this is fear of their reputations being tarnished by gossip in the local community or maybe it is fear of attracting the eye of the police. Whatever the cause, the fear of being seen with a foreigner is very real. Many girls would like to go out with you but are just too afraid.

Everything is illegal in Cuba. And every Cuban does illegal things every day just to survive. The illegality doesnt matter. In a totalitarian state, the police don't to follow due process of law. A girl can be thrown in jail just for being suspected of being a jinitera.

The only thing that matters is what rules or behavoirs the government wants to enforce. For the past several years the Cuban goverment has been putting a great deal of police enforcement to show the tourism community that cuba is NOT the "wh0reh0use of the carribean." And they have succeeded remarkably well, because Cuba is definetly no longer the wh0reh0use of the carribean.

If you are going to have non-stop sex with a different girl every nite, then dont go to Cuba.

[QUOTE=Beersterry]2. Prostitution is illegal in Cuba and is actively enforced. [/Quote]I am developing my own theory about the crackdown and why the girls are running scared.

My theory is this: if a girl is seen with a extranjero, she becomes a target. She can be shaken down by the police, extorted for money. Additionally, I have also found in her day-to-day transactions that her costs go up. Just like the price of taxicab ride (in the free market) is "$1 for Cubans, $5 for extranjeros." My novia a native cubana had a previous boyfreind who was a foreigner. Word got out aorund her local cuban town. Since then, she is being charged extranjero prices on everything, because they know she has money.

Therefore, a cubana is afraid to be seen with a foreigner, because she will be charged higher prices and/or extorted by the police.

Question To Cuba Experts on The Forum:

Have other people seen this?

[QUOTE=Water Boy]

Therefore, a cubana is afraid to be seen with a foreigner, because she will be charged higher prices and/or extorted by the police.

Question To Cuba Experts on The Forum:

Have other people seen this?[/QUOTE]There is not a simple or a single answer to why some Cuban girls don't want to be seen with a foreigner. A lot depends on who she is (pro, semi-pro, normal girl) and where you are.

You may already know that one way Cuba cracks down on prostitution is the three strikes policy. If a girl is stopped by a policeman with a foreigner in suspicious situation (don't ask me to define) and the cop has good reason to believe she is a jinetera but has not actually caught her in the act, she gets written up but not charged. If a girl gets caught three times in similar suspicious situations, its an automatic 2 year jail term. Therefore, girls obviously do not want to be in a position where a cop decides to write them up.

If your in an area with tourists (old havana, the beach), the cops are specifically looking for this type of activity so the girl will be on high alert. If your outside of these areas, its not as suspicious and not as much of a concern.

If you're with a regular girl in her neighborhood, it's human nature that she would be concerned her neighbors will see her with a foreigner and draw the conclusion/start rumors that she's a prostitute.

I personally don't believe the thought of being over charged for things in the future is a major factor as foreigners get over charged because they don't know any better. A Cuban girl would know when she's being overcharged and wouldn't agree to it.

I don't know if they are charged more, but sometimes everyone wants in on the new found source of wealth. In all the time that I have been in Cuba, I have only been stopped a couple of times. The girls were never written up.

In Havana, you just can't look like you are from Camaguey. I guess this give the cops opportunity to write you up or get a bribe.

The regular girls I meet have no problems at all being seen with me in their neigbourhoods. Actually the contrary, they usually seem proud to be with someone else that the regular Cuban. Then again, I am not an ugly guy :-) Seriously, what they DO NOT want is to be seen with a guy who could not realistically be their novio. So if you're a hot 19 year old Cubana, you don't want to be seen with a geeky looking 25 year old foreigner or a an older foreigner (say, over 35-40 perhaps, 10 years between is not a big deal in Cuba).

BUT

The semi-pros I have from time to time hung out with, are scared to death walking or talking to me. No exceptions.

I've known about a handful of really cool Cubanas who would actually enjoy when cops came over to us, just so they could show their tropicana-dancer documents and let me answer in Spanish that I know everything from her last name to her fathers name, to her exact address, birthday, height etc etc etc. These are the super cool Cubanas who are unfortunately becomming more and more rare as the number of foreign sex tourists increases and the police presence and attention to jineterisma/o does the same.

I've never heard of any of these girls have been charged tourist prices after having been seen with me. But if someone has tried this on the chicas, I would not be surprised. Nothing surprises me in Cuba anymore.

[QUOTE=Beersterry]I don't know if they are charged more, but sometimes everyone wants in on the new found source of wealth. In all the time that I have been in Cuba, I have only been stopped a couple of times. The girls were never written up.

In Havana, you just can't look like you are from Camaguey. I guess this give the cops opportunity to write you up or get a bribe.[/QUOTE]Havana has two reasons for increased police scrutiny:

1.) Police are hassling jinteras to crack down on prostitution

2.) The police are watching for cubanos illegally in havana. Because you can make more money in Havana, the cuban govt had a big problem in the past with everyone moving from the provinces to Havana. Now, you need permission to visit / live in / move to havana. They are hassling / fining the palestinas and every other cubano/a who is in havana illegally.

Guy's

I have a non-member friend who has a simple question.

He is goig to Havana for a 2 day convention so he will be booking a hotel. To be close to the action (bars , shops , best places to meet girls and bring them to a good casa) what hotel should he book in .

He gave me options like Melia Cohiba , Melia Habana , N.H Parque Central.

Thanks for then info !

John Jr.

John,

Kinda depends on the action. The NH Parque Central is by Parque Central and Prado - probably the easiest place in all of Havana (and Cuba) to find a girl within a few minutes - 24/7. But they are very pro.

The Melia Habana and Cohiba are in Vedado, where - except for La Rampa - there is less hardcore pros around (allthough always some).

For just a few days in Havana, where he will not have time to learn the ropes, and will probably just need the easiest access to pussy, I would definately suggest the Parque Central.

Nightclubs are out in Vedado, but it's a 5-8 minute cheap cab ride out there.

[QUOTE=John Jr]Guy's

I have a non-member friend who has a simple question.

He is goig to Havana for a 2 day convention so he will be booking a hotel. To be close to the action (bars , shops , best places to meet girls and bring them to a good casa) what hotel should he book in .

He gave me options like Melia Cohiba , Melia Habana , N.H Parque Central.

Thanks for then info !

John Jr.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Travelling Gring]A.) The regular girls I meet have no problems at all being seen with me in their neigbourhoods. Actually the contrary, they usually seem proud to be with someone else that the regular Cuban.

BUT

B.) The semi-pros I have from time to time hung out with, are scared to death walking or talking to me. No exceptions.[/QUOTE]Heck, I've been down there several months and I still haven't figured out how Cuba works. The rules change every day.

The difficult thing is: I do not kinow how to tell a regular girl from a semi-pro. And, frankly, I am not sure that a distinction exists. As you said elsewhere: it is rare to find a girl who is not attracted to gifts/money/oppurtunity for a visa offered by a tourist.

Therefore, wouldn't all cuban girls who go with a foreginer really be essentially considered semi-pros?

I am curious as to why in B above the "Semi-Pros" would be afraid to be seen with you, but in A) normal girls would not be. Actually I have heard that the opposite is the norm. Once a girl goes with a tourist, even for love, she is considered a jinitera. If she is a jinitera, she is a puta. Therefore to go out with you sets her on a career path she may not want to take (unless she is away from home in havana, where no one knows her from back home)

Is it in fact because the girls in B) above are more pro than semi-pro?

Interesting discussion. Main problem is where to differ between a regular girl and a semi-pro, because when does a regular girl cross that thin border and become a semi-pro?

When I say 'regular' I am probably using the term in another way that many would. At least in the post you are referring to. I talk about the 3-4 'regular' girls I have met, and by this I mean the 3-4 girls I have met who did not only not want money for sex, but were also very reluctant to accept anything else. Be it a pair of shoes, dinner at a restaurant, a 10 cuc bill for a phone-card or even a beer from my own fridge. I think we can agree that girls like that are 'regular' girls and nowhere near being semi-pros? Question is, if we need to invent a whole new word for this type of girl to seperate them from a 'regular' girl who did not pick you out for monetary reasons, but who is happy to be spoiled by you in every way she can. So, a girl that refuses everything - naturally to make a very clear point that she is the opposite of a jinetera and that she wants to be with you for other reasons than money - what do we call her? A 'religiously regular'? an 'opposite jinetera'? a 'bizarro-cubana'? I dont know.

Is a girl who YOU make a move on, who has never or only once before been with a foreigner, but who is happy to let you buy her shoes, food, clothes, whatever, then a semi-pro? Hard to say, but to me - depending on how demanding she gets - she is definately closer to being a semi-pro than a regular girl.

The small handful of 'regulars' (in my definition) I have met, have had no problems hanging with me in public, taking me to their house to meet family and neighbours, inviting be to the beach or on a picnic with the family, introducing me to all their friends etc. None at all. And these neighbours - while I can't guarantee that none of them start badmouthing the girls - have been super-friendly and very welcoming.

A girl who has no record of ever being with a foreigner, who holds a job or studies, who is from a decent family and whos friends are not all registered jineteras is not going to have a problem being seen with a foreigner. For sure not if that foreigner is within reasonable range of her own age, can take part in the questionning on the street in Spanish and who knows the girls full name, address, birthday, job/school etc. Yes, she might get stopped and checked often, she might even be taken to the station and harrased, but she is not going to go to jail.

But hey, all this might differ. I am no Brad Pitt, but a decent looking guy. I have passed 30, yes, but can pass as maybe 25-27 (Cuba takes 6 years off me in 7 days). I speak reasonably Spanish, I know some Cuban law and have no problem putting up a polite but firm attitude towards a policeman. I don't pick up girls at jinetera-packed clubs and I don't act or dress like I own the world including Cuba. Now, any tourist with opposite characteristics - 50 years, fat and ugly, no spanish, either rude or plain afraid of the police, coming out from Salon Rojo with an 18 year old cubana in his arm, drunk and acting like he is king of Cuba... Well, neither family, neighbours, friends or police is gonna believe this guy is picking up girls for free.


[QUOTE=Water Boy]Heck, I've been down there several months and I still haven't figured out how Cuba works. The rules change every day.

The difficult thing is: I do not kinow how to tell a regular girl from a semi-pro. And, frankly, I am not sure that a distinction exists. As you said elsewhere: it is rare to find a girl who is not attracted to gifts/money/oppurtunity for a visa offered by a tourist.

Therefore, wouldn't all cuban girls who go with a foreginer really be essentially considered semi-pros?

I am curious as to why in B above the "Semi-Pros" would be afraid to be seen with you, but in A) normal girls would not be. Actually I have heard that the opposite is the norm. Once a girl goes with a tourist, even for love, she is considered a jinitera. If she is a jinitera, she is a puta. Therefore to go out with you sets her on a career path she may not want to take (unless she is away from home in havana, where no one knows her from back home)

Is it in fact because the girls in B) above are more pro than semi-pro?[/QUOTE]

o.k...the list as I see it,

1. fidelistas
2. regular girls
3. jinateras
4. putas

I think that people are blurring #3 and #4. People think the jinatera they have met is a regular girl and the puta they are doing is a jinatera.

If she is a doctor or works in the resort but is doing you, she is a jinetera.
If you met her through her cousin or brother, she is a puta.

[QUOTE=Beersterry]o.k...the list as I see it,

1. fidelistas
2. regular girls
3. jinateras
4. putas

I think that people are blurring #3 and #4. People think the jinatera they have met is a regular girl and the puta they are doing is a jinatera.[/QUOTE]This is so true. I have blurred the above categories. I have met many jevas who I thought were a 2 but wound up being a 3, but more often I have met many 4's who wound up being a 3.

What I Was referring to earlier was that I have heard from many cubans the following "If a cubana goes with a foreigner, she is considered a jinitera." Furthmermore I have heard cubanos make the statement "All jiniteras are putas." If you ask a cubano for a jinitera they will bring you a puta.

A Better Definition

Maybe there are no clear lines, as girls flit between being a 2-3-4 chameleon-like and with relative ease. Some weeks they are a 2 and some weeks they are a 4. I have met many jevas that cubanos told me were puticas, and then the girls didnt want to put out, even for money. Perhaps they were afraid of police. So they went from being a 4 to category 0 - or a "nun".

The one thing that is consistent about cuba is that cuba is forever inconsistent.

[QUOTE=Beersterry]If she is a doctor or works in the resort but is doing you, she is a jinetera.

If you met her through her cousin or brother, she is a puta.[/QUOTE]As I'm sure many of you know already, the word "jinetera" is Spanish for female jockey and comes from the notion of girls riding foreigners for money. Therefore, technically any girl that meets and receives money from a foreigner would be considered a jinetera and would exclude her from the category of regular girl, especially from the view of the Cubans.

[QUOTE=Water Boy]What I Was referring to earlier was that I have heard from many cubans the following "If a cubana goes with a foreigner, she is considered a jinitera."[/QUOTE]

Well of course. If your 'white' country was a magnet for saudia-arabian oil-tycoons, and all the girls you knew - every single one of them - preferred these guys over you and your gringo friends, you would call all the girls hookers too. These cuban guys are pissed because the girls are running after tourists. Off course, 95% of these girls are in it for the money, but some are not.

These cubanos... why even bother with them?... Theres about 3 million of them running around the streets of every Cuban town hoping they will run into some newly arrived tourist, so they can get between the stupid tourist and the cuban girl for a cut of the dough. Everybody who was been to Cuba a couple of times and can communicate with a girl knows that the number one rule is that these guys are useless idiots. If I had a thousand fingers, I still couldn't count on two hands how many times a cuban guy has asked me if I wanted a girl. I get sick of seeing them. I tell them - in the nicest words I can find in that situation - to fuck off. And then they actually fuck off, which they donøt if you just say 'no, gracias'.

I do have Cuban friends. I don't involve in them in my chicas. They don't ask to be involved. They don't need to be. They make their money on the black market, but not as jineteros. I don't care much for jineterAS, but I hate jineterOS.

[QUOTE=Travelling Gring] Everybody who was been to Cuba a couple of times and can communicate with a girl knows that the number one rule is that these guys are useless idiots. [/QUOTE]I agree.

I usually avoid these guys. On part of my journey, I was in a smallish town and couldn't land a chica for the life of me. (Except for some overweight 40ish hardened pros - who would pester me mercilessly). Then, out of desparation, I sought out cubanos for referrals. It took me alot of wasted time and wasted money to learn the lesson that these guys are useless.

In retrospect - I should have just gone to another city where there was freindlier chicas.

That's the problem with cuba - there is a LOOOONG learning curve.