Kyiv

[QUOTE=TeFab456;2318250]What is her profile name?[/QUOTE]200 K followers on IG is artificially inflated. 10 K can be purchased for about 500 UAH.

I wouldn't be surprised if she had the whole thing with relatives, restaurants, phone and key snatch rehearsed, orchestrated and staged.

There was a guy from UK few years ago who married Ukrainian girl and eventually got pushed into oncoming truck. Dead. She mourned, traveled to UK and took possession of inheritance. His relatives couldn't do shit.

It is one thing to enjoy these girls company while changing them periodically and preferably frequently. It is totally different undertaking marrying former or acting prostitute.

[QUOTE=Tmac5555;2317997]I have gone through most posts Kiev section and found it really useful. I wish I could found this forum earlier. This is my first post and just want to share a real experience. Please don't be mad if you can't understand what I'm talking about, I'm not good at English nor a good writer.

Like most old generation people in China, I was emerged in one voice that Russia is our best ally since last century and as a result I always want to visit there. I searched on Internet and somehow found an app called VK. I met many people on VK and somehow met an extremely beautiful girl, let's call her Nastia here.[/QUOTE]Sorry to hear about your bad experience. Let's see what mistakes you have made that have made the disappointment unavoidable.

1. VK is not a site for mongering, so you have to be extra cautious when you meet girls there who have asked you for money. There are a lot of scammers on the site. Being a Russian social network, it is also currently banned in Ukraine (you can access it with VPN tho), and it seems a lot of Ukrainian girls have chosen to stopping using it.

2. Never send money before meeting. When I read that you sent her $100 before visiting her, I was expecting that she will start ghosting and never show up in your arranged meetings, which is the most likely scenario. In your case, I think the girl confirmed that you were a newbie in mongering in Ukraine when you sent her money in advance, and decided to scam you more money later. Only send money before meetings when you have established trust with the girl.

3. To include her family members in your dates. It is clear that the girl was try her best to milk you by taking as many people as possible to your dinner dates. It's about you and the girl and I would expect some level of privacy when meeting the girl. It is also weird that the girl decided to introduce her close ones to you at the very beginning. Girls usually do that when they have been meeting you for a while and mutual trust is already established. Definitely a red flag.

4. Tolerance of bad behaviors. I used to make similar mistakes but now I've got guts to say no to unacceptable behaviors. When she suddenly took your phone and threatened you to give her money, why didn't you just get back your property by force? I would definitely do that. Did her threats really get you? Or was she stronger than you so that you couldn't get you phone back by force?

As a Chinese dude like you, I feel tolerating bad behaviors and trying to avoid conflicts are still common traits among our people. The 'Hua qian xiao zai' and 'duo yi shi bu ru shao yi shi" cultures are inherent in our genes and passed through generations. These toxic cultures could make you easily manipulated by others.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2317884]Great advice. I have no experience in Spain.[/QUOTE]You missed out the Years with English Girls on Holiday with Club 18/30 . Now they organize their own Packs and go on the Pull. Just try To mingle and load them with drinks.

And they can do a lot of drinking [URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CnJWnlJEdk8[/URL].

[QUOTE=Jojosun;2318289]You missed out the Years with English Girls on Holiday with Club 18/30 . Now they organize their own Packs and go on the Pull. Just try To mingle and load them with drinks.

And they can do a lot of drinking [URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CnJWnlJEdk8[/URL].[/QUOTE]Appreciate, the advice.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2316562]Part about locals getting discounts is true, and paying in local currencies is always a good idea. As far as the prices he is quoting they are way off, unless you have zero standards. Newbies will pay far more then the rates he is posting and this is just for average girls. If you can even find High Quality girls, expected to pay over $150 hour, or more.[/QUOTE]The prices advertised on web sites like relax Kiev and top models are the real prices. It is not that locals get a "discount", but rather that foreigners get prices increased by at least 100 %. How much exploitation should you allow? I think about 100% is enough. Prices for foreigners ought to be in the 1500 UAH to 2500 UAH range. If the girl has a real job, depending on the job, that could be two days to a whole week's worth of her regular salary.

Non-pros, or semi-pros, just like you, do not know how much they can get from you. They just look at the prices online, compare themselves to the photos, and come up with a price estimate. They then multiply that estimate by the foreigner factor of 2. They figure 2 or 3 days worth of work is certainly worth 1 hour with a man, particularly if they know him and he is relatively attractive.

Personally, I have had a great time with perfectly beautiful girls for only 1200 UAH. I usually pay form 1500 UAH to 2000 UAH. Occasionally, I have paid form 200 to 2500 UAH, but there is no guarantee that the sex will be better. These girls are just high maintenance. The designer mini-dresses and fancy high heels cost money and they have to recoup their expenses.

You might think that you are getting different women, but that is not necessarily so. Anyone who has been with an apartment girl and paid 100 USD should know that on that day, several times during that day, she has already had sex with many local men for only 1000 UAH each.

Outside the apartments, an elegant little dress, some high heels and a little make up can make a world of difference. Those university students that you see all day, dressed in their jeans and flat heels, can look absolutely incredible when they clean up nicely. I have had a girl during the day for only 1500 UAH and met her later in the evening at the Caribbean, where she was insisting on 200 USD.

In North America, where 50% of young women are obese an immediately eliminated form contention, never mind how they look or dress. In Ukraine, 90% of women under 25 are potentially doable. "Average" girls are great. "High quality" girls are just average girls who spent a little more time putting themselves together.

And any "high quality" girl who expects to get paid in foreign currencies, whether $150 of more, should be immediately reminded that she likes in Ukraine, and UAH is the legal tender.

[QUOTE=Riina;2317706]I've been reading these comments here about negotiating and not paying more then fifty bucks for sex. Just curious, but where exactly do you find yourself in a position to negotiate in Kiev? Don't get me wrong, I'm a believer in negotiating. But usually that entails two people sniffing each others asses and making a judgement as to value.[/QUOTE]Yes, metaphorically, that is exactly right. The first step is to stop thinking in terms of foreign currencies.

Are you sure you read the Forum? Surely three is plenty of information here so you could have avoided this perfectly executed scam.

[QUOTE=Tmac5555;2317997]I have gone through most posts Kiev section and found it really useful. I wish I could found this forum earlier. This is my first post and just want to share a real experience. Please don't be mad if you can't understand what I'm talking about, I'm not good at English nor a good writer.

Like most old generation people in China, I was emerged in one voice that Russia is our best ally since last century and as a result I always want to visit there. I searched on Internet and somehow found an app called VK. I met many people on VK and somehow met an extremely beautiful girl, let's call her Nastia here..[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=AntonySun1996;2318262]2. Never send money before meeting.[/QUOTE]In fact, unless you know the girl for years and totally trust her, do not send the money remotely even after meeting her. Enjoy her company first, satisfy your desires, whatever they are. If satisfied then pay.

Another key concept. Do not assume anything. Ukrainian girls are good with creating a promise and not necessarily delivering while milking some of us boys very efficiently. And after that the common theme is "I thought she would do this and that". And then she doesn't. And monger feels cheated.

Don't transfer. Give it face to face. I do not mind paying a small amount (up to 2000 UAH) in person before going for an adventure. But I do strike a conversation first, see the reaction and at least 3-4 out of 10 I reject.

With regular contacts I pay after the fact. New girl has to be qualified first. Any suspicion dictates that I should rely on my intuition, and that other girls are within the reach.

Sorry to hear about Tmac555's misfortune and definitely respect him for having the courage to share and warn others.

[QUOTE=Stevie69;2318596] Surely three is plenty of information here so you could have avoided this perfectly executed scam.[/QUOTE]This has truly become a culture in Ukraine. It's just so dam easy to find a foreigner happy to WU a small amount monthly. And of course there's the potential of the big play to scam many thousands.

It's a good thing this forum exists. I can only imagine how many unsuspecting dudes have been saved.

[QUOTE=Riina;2318927]This has truly become a culture in Ukraine. It's just so dam easy to find a foreigner happy to WU a small amount monthly. And of course there's the potential of the big play to scam many thousands.

It's a good thing this forum exists. I can only imagine how many unsuspecting dudes have been saved.[/QUOTE]Correct, but other tend to minimize and ignore all the scams in Kiev. People need to know what is real going on in Kiev, especially for newbies. These are the guys that are brave enough to report there problems, many are too embarrassed or ashamed.

Tmac wrote a good report, and in good, intelligible English. Thanks. I wish more guys would tell us about the tricks of these girls, often professional scammers. I don't think that I have an evil mind, but I really think the profile of this (and similar) girl should've been revealed. For us to avoid, or she will turn to the next guy.

But, what is WU?

In response to PhotoSlider (can't quote it always gives me an error with tag usage).

2 weeks just in order to fuck some (hot or semi-hot) girls is absolutely not feasible in my opinion. You should be able to set up things in much less time. Which would be the only reason for Europeans to go to Kiev anyway. If you have so much time you might as well just hit Pattaya (waaaaaaay more girls and convenience and even though prices have been going up the past 10 years it still is the prime destination for paid pussy).

I myself am German and I am quite heavily against FKKs (its nice in the beginning don't get me wrong) just too expensive and the service is quite hit or miss with these Romanian girls.

For 150€ you can get an absolute Model between 18 -22 for an hour or even two in Kiev. Not so much in Germany.

[QUOTE=RollBuzz;2319457]Tmac wrote a good report, and in good, intelligible English. Thanks. I wish more guys would tell us about the tricks of these girls, often professional scammers. I don't think that I have an evil mind, but I really think the profile of this (and similar) girl should've been revealed. For us to avoid, or she will turn to the next guy.

But, what is WU. ? (Stevie).[/QUOTE]Sorry Tmac, is just not a good source. Some his information is real bad and over inflated, just not true or hyped up.

[QUOTE=RollBuzz;2319457]Tmac wrote a good report, and in good, intelligible English. Thanks. I wish more guys would tell us about the tricks of these girls, often professional scammers. I don't think that I have an evil mind, but I really think the profile of this (and similar) girl should've been revealed. For us to avoid, or she will turn to the next guy.

But, what is WU. ? (Stevie).[/QUOTE]Western Union. Funds transfer.

WU incurs fee. These days girls ask for deposit directly into their bank account. Ukrainian banking system easily allows that between different individuals and even different banks. Quite often without any fee.

Again, the best practice is not to do any online transfers. Especially before the commodities are delivered.

Agree with Roll Buzz, IG profile of that ummmm female should be revealed. Not for persecution or prosecution, but for prevention. Perhaps a blacklist thread creation may be considered.

Hi guys,

I've been following the threads here for some time and about to go to Kiev for the first time. I'the like to ask for some practical advice regarding accommodation. I've found a good apartment on Pushkinska St but Google maps shows something that looks like a police booth close to the entrance of the building. Does this sound like a bad idea to you when it comes to having girls come over to the apartment? Or not?

Thanks for any advice!