Kyiv

[QUOTE=YummyPL;2405646]I have seen lots of research. It is part of the work I do. The total Ukrainian diaspora living in other countries is about 5-6 million (a little over 3M in Russia) which is only about 10% of ethnic Ukrainians total worldwide. That isn't even annual--that is EVERYONE that has left or was born outside the country in total. The population of Ukraine has gone down about 7% total in 27 years (since independence not including losing Crimea) and that is largely due to low birth rates. There is some immigration to counter the emigration but it is not 1 for 1. Further, many that do leave emigrate temporarily for work but return.

I am giving conservative numbers, but the numbers are not even remotely near 15-25%. Even if we were to use your low number (15% annually), Ukraine's population would have gone from 47 M in 2016 to 26 M in 2019. That is just absurd.[/QUOTE]Haha don't bother posting facts. He lived here years ago and his friends that still live in Kiev keep him abreast of all the current information! Hahaha.

[QUOTE=Rog123;2405651]Haha don't bother posting facts. He lived here years ago and his friends that still live in Kiev keep him abreast of all the current information! Hahaha.[/QUOTE]The more potential visitors think that Kiev sucks, the fewer of them will decide to actually go to Kiev, spend money there, and jack up the prices for services. Meaning good girls will be more affordable for us, mere mortals.

Yeah, "Kiev sucks, everybody should go to Moscow".

[QUOTE=Rog123;2405651]Haha don't bother posting facts. He lived here years ago and his friends that still live in Kiev keep him abreast of all the current information! Hahaha.[/QUOTE]Kind of interesting of the 2 or 3 that complain about my reports. Neither write any post report of there travels at any destinations, were I have written several at different destinations. I give examples of destinations where there are actually Hot Girls, reasonably priced. And less Scams. These guys know who they are they just continue to keep the fantasy alive about Kiev.

True I have not been to Kiev in 3 years but there is no way it now suddenly better then 3 years ago, absolutely no way. During this tine I have probably made 50-75 trips to Moscow and different parts of Mexico, both are way better then Kiev, not even close. There is a reason why I stopped going and many others have done the same. Subtract mine and P.S. Report's, most report that Kiev is average at best. There is nothing wrong with average, but when guys claim they are banging 9's /10's on a nightly basis. This is just not possible at any destinations, especially Ukraine.

I do give P.S. Credit, at least he writes reports. We may have different opinions on Kiev and at least he post reports of his travels, for that I give him credit. I have also learned a few things from his reports. The others just live in the past and do not contribute to any other destinations, not in Kiev. I guess if I was sitting at home fantasizing about the old days of Kiev, I would say it is a great place, instead I have taken what I learned from Kiev and now travel and make great memories.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2406130]Kind of interesting of the 2 or 3 that complain about my reports. [/QUOTE]Well, I have been out of the game for 2. 5 years. Back when I was playing, I did contribute. I will chronicle my journey when it starts in March.

He says 25 percent of the population is leaving Ukraine yearly and then accuses others of being in a fantasy land. I couldn't believe someone who consistently posts such ridiculous opinions is serious, but in this case I think he may seriously believe his own nonsense. So in 10 years there will be a couple thousand people in Ukraine? LOL. Since he responded to my post I am assuming he is talking about me as one who doesn't post reports. Another ridiculous statement as I have posted many detailed reports from Ukraine, Mexico (Tijuana and CDMX), Panama City, Germany and Romania in the last couple years. I told myself I would ignore his posts and have him blocked but unfortunately I'm not always logged in and am exposed to his obsessive posts. All lies and hyperbole.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2406130]There is nothing wrong with average, but when guys claim they are banging 9's /10's on a nightly basis. [/QUOTE]I ain't see nobody claiming that.

[QUOTE=Wgmm99;2395103]I have a question about girls with tinder profiles that only have an instagram in the description or say to write them on insta because they don't visit tinder often, etc. In your experiences, are they pros / semi-pros. I have had decent success on Mamba with finding good semi-pro student types in the past but if this is another avenue to find similar types, I would explore this option as well. Thanks in advance![/QUOTE]Probably neither, they're likely just looking for more followers.

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2403388]Huh! The admiration is all mutual!

Agree with you. Precisely a year ago I had a negotiation with exclusive Kiev agency over Viber. Mamasan asked 9000 UAH for 4 hours. I countered with 4000. She responded with saying verbatim:

- My girls aren't prostitutes!

- I never said they are. Quality of their services speaks for itself. Yet I would rather go with one of my free girlfriends. 5000 for 6 hours? Let me know please, as I have a business meeting coming up.

- 6000 for 4 hours!

- Sorry, I have a conference call starting now.

- You're twisting my hands! 5000 UAH for 4 hours.

- Deal. I cancel conference call. How soon can she be here?

- 60-90 minutes at your door..[/QUOTE]Much respect there PhotoSlider; care to share the contact / details. Thanks.

Just wanted to share my method for optimizing the results of the P2 P efforts in Kiev. I have been chatting privately with PhotoSlider and we shared some ways of doing but I will keep that part pvt for us.

However, there is a solid method which is working very well for me. No magic but concrete, it requires a great effort.

You need time, a web browser and Internet connection.

Select a few sites which collect all sort of girls / ads, you know them all already.

1) Contact each of them and try collect their phone numbers.

2) Take a screenshot of the girl and s few crucial notes from their ads which you consider important (e. G. Age, breast size, services, taboos, whatever you like).

3) Create a new entry in your Google contact list for each of them and associate the pic / screenshot with the comments.

After some years of this effort, I have now a huge DB of numbers / pics which allows me to quickly separate inde from agencies (I am more after the former because I hate the bait / switch from agencies and don't like to have a dispatcher in the middle). 70% of the numbers I collect today are already in my DB and I can spot fakes and agencies very quickly (big gain for me). I also developed a quite good attitude in spotting fake pics from all the rest, new girls from pro, etc. It's very funny now to find numbers which are 2-3 years old still valid and working.

Anyway, as PhotoSlider said: Kiev is very bad for P2 P please go to Moscow instead ;)

[QUOTE=Tits_Lover;2406477]Anyway, as PhotoSlider said: Kiev is very bad for P2 P please go to Moscow instead ;)[/QUOTE]Precisely! Finally a wise man is on the Forum sharing my opinion that Kiev is terrible. The whole country of Ukraine is the armpit of Civilized World! It's a miracle that some of us have the courage to go there and suffer through bait and switch, and end up sleeping with old fat ugly overpriced Ukrainian women, while much much better options are available everywhere.

Go to Moscow. Or even better alternative, - Tijuana!

[QUOTE=Internash1;2406386]Much respect there PhotoSlider; care to share the contact / details. Thanks.[/QUOTE]Sorry, man! Not online with a newbie. Nothing against you personally, but I exchange info either in person, or with those who already established themselves as respected contributors on this Forum.

That contact was given to me by another Senior Forum member a year ago, without the explicit right to pass it along.

Just so that you don't feel too bad about it, some of the girls were no good. One was great for about 10 minutes in bed, and 30 minutes later during our dinner together told me to "fuck off!" in a very unambiguous manner. She also did some other unacceptable deeds.

The other one tried to avoid kissing in the beginning, and became very close to GTFO. She quickly corrected her behavior though, and the morning after sleepover moaned loudly and rather sincerely. I had a cleaning maid arriving at 9 am, and 10 minutes before that, precisely at 8:50 am I asked for a BBBJ. She raised her eyebrow, and complied. Few months later she stayed with me overnight for free, not counting a nice dinner with few glasses of decent wine.

Two other girls were much better. One provided Greek for free and was lots of joy in many ways. The second girl is totally my favorite still today after more than a year. Both were ready to go on a short notice.

Anyway, Tits_Lover explained great working approach real well. Best of luck in building your own contacts DB, and sharing reports here. You can do it. Or go to Moscow instead.

[QUOTE=YummyPL;2405316]...unfortunately my work is taking me to Kyiv...[/QUOTE]Wish I was that unfortunate!

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2401727]criterion for economical mongering should be happiness (including happy memories) per dollar spent, not orgasms per dollar / "bang per buck".[/QUOTE]Totally agree. While there is a correlation between ejaculation and happiness, it goes well beyond purely physiological release and expands further into psychological, mental part of it. Attitude, manners, personality, and especially her tenderness, feminine side means so much more to me. Still without good sex, the girl may last only if there is at least one more young lady currently available for satisfaction. I can handle multi-tasking.

[QUOTE]I think many older guys who monger are looking to finally experience the type of ideal girlfriend (beautiful, always friendly and sexually available) that they wanted when they were younger....[/QUOTE]That is precisely what I am looking for. Illusion of returning to Eternal Youth. Except I had that kind of girlfriends when I was significantly younger, and then, using your metaphor, my wheels fell off for about a decade. Took me another decade or more to get to a comfortable level of happiness that I have these days while in Kiev.

[QUOTE]I don't see a problem, in itself, in marrying an ex-prostitute. Problem with me and my current Kyiv regular is the 30 year age difference. I'm at a point where I like being alone most of the time, so am pretty much unfit for marrying any woman, but especially unfit for someone who has her whole life ahead. I'm actually happy that she sees other men and never contacts me when I'm gone. Gives me the freedom to go off bicycling by myself in the desert like I'm doing now. When I come to Kyiv, she shows up reliably, is perfectly behaved for the several hours we are together, then reliably disappears. Like the girl in that television show "I Dream of Jeannie", who lived in a bottle until her master summoned her, then was supposed to shrink and go back into the bottle when master wanted that. Except Jeannie / Genie in that show was often troublesome (refused to go back into her bottle when so commanded, for example).

I'm planning on keeping my rental girlfriend indefinitely. But I'm aware that a girl so much younger might fall in love with a man closer to her age, or decide to have children, or otherwise disappear from my life at any time. So I prepare myself mentally for eventually having to seek a replacement. If she reaches age 40 (12 years from now), without marrying someone else, her book value might be close to zero in most men's eyes, but I might still find her attractive, based on having known her since she was much younger, so I might continuing seeing her until my own wheels fall off (sex no longer interests me) and handicapped spot is exactly what I'll be needing.[/QUOTE]Strategic thinking at its finest!

I used to imagine that I want a dedicated high quality rental GF next to me for a long time. For multiple weeks. Then empirically I realized 2-3 days is a max. Freshness wears out, her orgasms become less artistic, and I feel the need for an "inlay" of hourly girls here and there while my long-term is away for finals at her University or is at beauty salon for a few hours.

I went further and over the last 2 years understood that the best modus operandi for myself is keeping a dynamic Harem of 3 to 5 readily available and well tested rental girlfriends. Some of them come for 2-3 days, some for 4-8 hours. The key must be their willingness to arive on a short notice, and to leave when asked to. Usually it is a time of arrival and departure agreed upon beforehand. Sometimes sudden change of plans forces me to ask the current attendant to leave sooner, for example due to unexpected meeting request from the girl whose priority is higher. In Kiev I certainly value how trustworthy girls leave without too many questions. Of course I do it in a respectful manner, occasionally providing better transportation with my personal driver and such. I certainly value their manners and attitude, yet still I work on seeking candidates to replenish the above Harem, as girls get married, move back home, graduate from University, change attitude, ask for more money than they are worth in my opinion.

I certainly have no illusions about them being dedicated strictly to me and no one else.

In my case it is many interlapping girls, indirectly competing for my time. That leads to occasional scheduling conflicts, and that is part of entertainment.

In yours, Kozerog, it is a firmly formulated personal choice of having one trusted girl. Makes it much easier in many respects.

[QUOTE=Tits_Lover;2406477]Just wanted to share my method for optimizing the results of the P2 P efforts in Kiev. I have been chatting privately with PhotoSlider and we shared some ways of doing but I will keep that part pvt for us.

However, there is a solid method which is working very well for me. No magic but concrete, it requires a great effort.

You need time, a web browser and Internet connection.

Select a few sites which collect all sort of girls / ads, you know them all already.

1) Contact each of them and try collect their phone numbers.

2) Take a screenshot of the girl and s few crucial notes from their ads which you consider important (e. G. Age, breast size, services, taboos, whatever you like).

3) Create a new entry in your Google contact list for each of them and associate the pic / screenshot with the comments.

After some years of this effort, I have now a huge DB of numbers / pics which allows me to quickly separate inde from agencies (I am more after the former because I hate the bait / switch from agencies and don't like to have a dispatcher in the middle). 70% of the numbers I collect today are already in my DB and I can spot fakes and agencies very quickly (big gain for me). I also developed a quite good attitude in spotting fake pics from all the rest, new girls from pro, etc. It's very funny now to find numbers which are 2-3 years old still valid and working.

Anyway, as PhotoSlider said: Kiev is very bad for P2 P please go to Moscow instead ;)[/QUOTE]I do something similar. I have a separate phone for mongering and just take a screen shot of their Mamba / Tinder / etc. And use it as their contact photo and their name will be something like "Vlada, 23, Kyiv" in my phone. So, Kyiv is searchable in my contacts. If I have met them already, I put them to the bottom of my contacts by changing it to "Z_Vlada, 23, Kyiv" for a rainy day. If I plan to not see a girl again, I will just delete the number. No reason to have 100 numbers. 20 is fine with me as I tend to pay for a few and focus on freebies.

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2406503]Wish I was that unfortunate![/QUOTE]I'd also like it.