Seeking Arrangements

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2589395]Yeah, I do not get that either for the most part when guys said a woman I was seeing was off fucking others guys. I was like so what? I care how well she fucks me when we are together. I guess other guys were afraid if she went bare and was fucking around that she would be more at risk for STDs or something.

Maybe other guys did not have what I had at home when I was married. I see guys who are married and miserable all the time like I was. That commitment is like being committed as in to a mental institution in many cases.

Before I found my gal, I was off digging around in the manosphere for some guidance with where I was going with my life. I really loved the book, the Unplugged Alpha by Richard Cooper who is single. He also has a youtube channel I like. But his book was kind of his take on the Rational Male by Rollo Tomassi. Rollo is married, and I think he is a better speaker than writer. I loved that I finally was reading a bunch of guys who knew how I felt, were smart, and could justify my need to see multiple women9.

Anyway, Rollo said something that stuck with me. He said that his marriage is not work, and marriages should not be work. That kind of goes against everything that has been preached to us, but I liked that. If your marriage is not great, then why stay in it? Why settle?

I do not think that a lot of guys understand that I did the SB thing not because of some need for commitment or to pay women to like me but because the sex was better. How hard are people really going to try for money? I remember watching a boxer.[/QUOTE]Steve put it best. No matter how good she is, you eventually get bored. We want different, unpredictable, and exciting.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2589420]To Elvis's question of can you have a girl so good in bed you don't want others I would say YES but it's about the BJ not the sex. To me there is only so creative she can get with her pussy. Yes some girls look just spectacular cowgirling. And yes some look you strong in the eyes in mish and make you feel the most desirable man in the world as you pump one out. But it's the BJ that separates a woman from all else.

If I had a woman who could give a mind bending BJ like no other (Rivetta? Andressa? Noleta? Anna?) and was into doing that at least once a day maybe more then yeah I'the have a keeper on my hands. At least that's what I think now. After a year of mind bending BJs maybe I'the get bored. Hope to find out some day. LOL.[/QUOTE]You either train the girls or you pick them well. LOL. I find very few girls know how to do that mind blowing BJ. It has to be slow, have variety, and stamina. Plus, her technique must be good. A rare combination. Girls don't seem to understand it is not the act or the orgasm. It is the pleasure and how long you can keep a man on the edge. The example that come to mind is a girl that allowed me to fuck her mouth like a pussy. She would just alter the pressure by her lip and tongue. She could change the pressure rhythmically or make it feel like a virgin. Totally mind blowing.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2589307]I have to admit it surprises me guys asking them to delete their profiles. I mean the point of SA is it's NSA. I feel like we shouldn't be demanding exclusivity of each other it's not like we are getting married. And I'm not being exclusive so it seems a bit harsh to ask her to be.

I will admit I don't love it if I see a girl I am pretty regular with still on the prowl. And I surely don't want to hear about it. But these girls got to pay the rent and I'm not really their boyfriend. Anyhow I guess my philosophy is live and let live on this one.[/QUOTE]Bingo. Unless you are paying all her expenses, she has someone else on the side. Even if she claims you are exclusive, she can still cheat. That is why I don't go cheap if I find someone good. If you under pay, she will trade up just like we do. She will go for the better deal or be unavailable. The beauty is SA is that there is another target on the next page. If a gal ghosts you, you just move on. No need to be obsessed. That's for losers.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2589431]You either train the girls or you pick them well. LOL. I find very few girls know how to do that mind blowing BJ. It has to be slow, have variety, and stamina. Plus, her technique must be good. A rare combination. Girls don't seem to understand it is not the act or the orgasm. It is the pleasure and how long you can keep a man on the edge. The example that come to mind is a girl that allowed me to fuck her mouth like a pussy. She would just alter the pressure by her lip and tongue. She could change the pressure rhythmically or make it feel like a virgin. Totally mind blowing.[/QUOTE]Haha. Well part of it is just seeing a ton of girls. If you see 100 you are bound to find one or two BBBJ masters. To be fair Anna, Noleta, and Rivetta are all pros. Andressa was not a pro but was the closest thing to a Unicorn ever. 9. 5 looks 9. 5 personality 9. 5 skills 9. 5 attitude. Scandallo girl 2019.

I have however trained a few up a bit. Alexa was too vanilla and no harmonica. Same with Layla. Both took direction well and eventually became top performers. Layla is a ghost now but Alexa is still on my hit list and down to travel again. Can't wait to see her because she is a to die for cutie with a perfect bod to boot.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2589431]You either train the girls or you pick them well. LOL. I find very few girls know how to do that mind blowing BJ. It has to be slow, have variety, and stamina. Plus, her technique must be good. A rare combination. Girls don't seem to understand it is not the act or the orgasm. It is the pleasure and how long you can keep a man on the edge. The example that come to mind is a girl that allowed me to fuck her mouth like a pussy. She would just alter the pressure by her lip and tongue. She could change the pressure rhythmically or make it feel like a virgin. Totally mind blowing.[/QUOTE]An underrated technique is intense suction. I find that gets me going. It's rare because many women seem to rely on too much dick licking and kissing combined with lackluster head movement when in it's in their mouth.

I always joke about the hot girls who tell me their old boyfriends say how great they are at giving head. These guys are the problem.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2589420]To Elvis's question of can you have a girl so good in bed you don't want others I would say YES but it's about the BJ not the sex. To me there is only so creative she can get with her pussy. [/QUOTE]You must use condoms Steve because before I went bare (after reading a huge metanalysis study that showed condoms do not really work for STDs) I would have agreed with you. Afterwards, there was a huge variation with fucking. In fact, the condoms almost protect you from a girl's snatch that is so tight it bites or is just the right amount of tight. It is hard to for me to fuck with condoms now. It is almost like what is the point?

And I do not mean to brag but my gal looks at sex like a workout and likes doing cowgirl most the time. How often is that you have a girl fuck you so hard she has sweat pouring off and if the bed is not bolted down, moves it around the room she is humping you so hard. My main concern is if this sexual energy (or stocking wearing) ends. I mean look at this episode of one of my favorite shows ever Coupling here at the 9:54 mark: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_aUwbt5Pos[/URL].

Steve Taylor: There are three things all men should know, and it's time you did too. You're never going to be famous, you're fatter than you think, and, most important of all, they don't keep wearing stockings.

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: Julia always wears stockings. No, really! She's always worn them. She always will. She told me.

(Steve and Patrick chuckle).

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: In fact, Julia told me she.

Steve Taylor, Patrick Maitland: (finishing with him). Prefers wearing stockings.

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: What?

Steve Taylor: Stockings aren't real, Jeff. They're a myth.

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: Stockings are real. I've seen 'them.

Steve Taylor: Oh, sure there are some stockings out there, but. There's. What? Ten pairs in the whole world?

Patrick Maitland: Ten, at most.

Steve Taylor: Ten pairs for all the women in the world. They share 'them out.

(Speaking in a woman's voice).

Steve Taylor: Oh, Julia! Why'got a new boyfriend? Your turn with the stockings then, but we'll need them back on Tuesday. There's an anniversary in New Zealand.

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: Tuesday?

Steve Taylor: The stockings will go, Jeff. They'll just melt away.

I kind of wonder if this is the real reason we look for strange. This is why I swore off monogamy. I only want to fuck women with stockings!

As for blowjobs, I know what you mean. There is nothing like a good BJ but they have two functions: to get you up and to get you off. Ironically, there was one stripper at my favorite club, and she had to finish me off quick. I would go to the club see her and shoo her away at first because her BJ was so good she would get me off in like 2 seconds. My routine was to get turned on with dances from the other girls and then see her for relief. I only did that a few thousand times.

I think what you mean is the kind of blowjob where the woman hits you in just the right spot so you are dying to fuck her right? I have had a handful of woman who hit the right spots, maybe five that gave out of this world head. My girl is not top five with head sensually but again she brings such energy she gets me hard. It is weird in that I think I have better orgasms with oral or a hand job but it is not quite the stress relief because there is no exertion, so I do not feel like that is real sex. I guess everyone is different.

Shit, what do you think women would do to us if we had this discussion any place but here?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2589470]Haha. Well part of it is just seeing a ton of girls. If you see 100 you are bound to find one or two BBBJ masters. To be fair Anna, Noleta, and Rivetta are all pros. Andressa was not a pro but was the closest thing to a Unicorn ever. 9. 5 looks 9. 5 personality 9. 5 skills 9. 5 attitude. Scandallo girl 2019.

I have however trained a few up a bit. Alexa was too vanilla and no harmonica. Same with Layla. Both took direction well and eventually became top performers. Layla is a ghost now but Alexa is still on my hit list and down to travel again. Can't wait to see her because she is a to die for cutie with a perfect bod to boot.[/QUOTE]Well you might just send them a tutorial video. Here is one.

[URL]https://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ph5eedb1cf26548[/URL]

[QUOTE=Akibono;2589556]Well you might just send them a tutorial video. Here is one.

[URL]https://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ph5eedb1cf26548[/URL][/QUOTE]Not bad. She's a bit too teasey for me. Not enough BLS and no harmonica boo! I find the Japanese really know a good BJ. I subscribed to [URL]FellatioJapan.com[/URL] for a while even tho paying for porn is dumb. But that's how good it is.

But I realize that even what is excellent varies. Rivetta had a way of putting her tongue flat at the top while she gave you the best doe eyes on the planet and then would take it deep without losing eye contact. Can't put my finger on Noletas magic but I had what felt like a ten minute long climax with her. And Anna I know exactly what it was. She had this great buffet of blowjob but when I was getting close she would crawl up and DFK me and I'the ease off the edge and she would go down again. She could just sense when I was close and would DFK me. It was amazing because went on forever.

I'm a big fan of mixing in harmonica and BLS along with full on mouth action. It's the buffet that does it for me.

I totally understand you guys when you say we should allow SBs to see others SDs. But OTOH, aren't we on SA for some semi-genuine GFE? If we are totally okay with our SBs seeing other SDs, then isn't this the same thing as being with a WG?

Of the 25 or so SBs that I hooked up with on SA, I had relationships with about half of them. I did feel that while we were seeing each other, we should be kind of exclusive. This, of course, only applied to my home market. When I used SA on the road, then I did not care if those girls saw other guys.

So, what I expected with non-PPM SBs in my home market was something like this: We meet, we totally fall for each other, we see each other regularly, I help her with expenses, she does not fuck other guys, we both get off of SA, but when the relationship fizzles after a few months, then we both go back on SA. Many of my SBs did this without my even asking them to. After we met and fell for each other, she would take her profile off the site and so did I. Then, after a couple of months of awesome raw dogging, traveling, wining and dining, we both get bored and we move on. However, I later discovered that some of these SBs had other profiles and were on other arrangement sites, which kind of pissed me off.

I obviously do not get pissed of when a WG fucks other guys. Should I feel the same way if an SB fucks other guys? If so, then what's the difference between an SB and a WG?

The difference is fuzzy. I started seeing one WG regularly after she tried to go legit. It was great. But then I found out later that she went back to hooking. I was pretty devastated. I stopped seeing her for a few months. But then I saw her again, and it was like old times. I will see her again, even though she is hooking again. Is she an SB or is she a WG?

Maybe the difference between my view and some of your views is that I did view SBs as longer term arrangements, whereas maybe a lot of you guys look at them as very short term arrangements or as PPMs. But if this is the case, then doesn't this mean that you guys are not really seeking arrangements?

I look at SBs as one notch below GF. Seems like some of you guys may see SBs as one notch above WG. If so, then this just explains our difference in views on the exclusivity issue.

Again, not arguing with you guys. Just think this is an interesting discussion, and so I wanted to share my thoughts for your consideration.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2589547]You must use condoms Steve because before I went bare (after reading a huge metanalysis study that showed condoms do not really work for STDs) I would have agreed with you. Afterwards, there was a huge variation with fucking. In fact, the condoms almost protect you from a girl's snatch that is so tight it bites or is just the right amount of tight. It is hard to for me to fuck with condoms now. It is almost like what is the point?

And I do not mean to brag but my gal looks at sex like a workout and likes doing cowgirl most the time. How often is that you have a girl fuck you so hard she has sweat pouring off and if the bed is not bolted down, moves it around the room she is humping you so hard. My main concern is if this sexual energy (or stocking wearing) ends. I mean look at this episode of one of my favorite shows ever Coupling here at the 9:54 mark: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_aUwbt5Pos[/URL].

Steve Taylor: There are three things all men should know, and it's time you did too. You're never going to be famous, you're fatter than you think, and, most important of all, they don't keep wearing stockings.

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: Julia always wears stockings. No, really! She's always worn them. She always will. She told me.

(Steve and Patrick chuckle).

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: In fact, Julia told me she.

Steve Taylor, Patrick Maitland: (finishing with him). Prefers wearing stockings.

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: What?

Steve Taylor: Stockings aren't real, Jeff. They're a myth.

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: Stockings are real. I've seen 'them.

Steve Taylor: Oh, sure there are some stockings out there, but. There's. What? Ten pairs in the whole world?

Patrick Maitland: Ten, at most.

Steve Taylor: Ten pairs for all the women in the world. They share 'them out.

(Speaking in a woman's voice).

Steve Taylor: Oh, Julia! Why'got a new boyfriend? Your turn with the stockings then, but we'll need them back on Tuesday. There's an anniversary in New Zealand.

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: Tuesday?

Steve Taylor: The stockings will go, Jeff. They'll just melt away.

I kind of wonder if this is the real reason we look for strange. This is why I swore off monogamy. I only want to fuck women with stockings!

As for blowjobs, I know what you mean. There is nothing like a good BJ but they have two functions: to get you up and to get you off. Ironically, there was one stripper at my favorite club, and she had to finish me off quick. I would go to the club see her and shoo her away at first because her BJ was so good she would get me off in like 2 seconds. My routine was to get turned on with dances from the other girls and then see her for relief. I only did that a few thousand times.

I think what you mean is the kind of blowjob where the woman hits you in just the right spot so you are dying to fuck her right? I have had a handful of woman who hit the right spots, maybe five that gave out of this world head. My girl is not top five with head sensually but again she brings such energy she gets me hard. It is weird in that I think I have better orgasms with oral or a hand job but it is not quite the stress relief because there is no exertion, so I do not feel like that is real sex. I guess everyone is different.

Shit, what do you think women would do to us if we had this discussion any place but here?[/QUOTE]Yeah I have no doubt that the subtleties are a lot more obvious bareback. Fucking with a condom indeed lame and I consider it just a part of the affair because as you say you need some animal pounding as a man. But BBBJ is the main event if you have to fuck with a condom. I'm not worried about STD. I just don't want to leave some unwise girl with a big lifelong boat anchor.

But we are all different. Like if you super dig cowgirl I think you are in the minority. Most guys like it in and out and to be in charge. Girls like to grind their clit. So cowgirl tends to be the least satisfying for me (and many guys I think). I'll take making out in mish over just about anything else — besides BBBJ.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2589570]I totally understand you guys when you say we should allow SBs to see others SDs. But OTOH, aren't we on SA for some semi-genuine GFE? If we are totally okay with our SBs seeing other SDs, then isn't this the same thing as being with a WG?

Of the 25 or so SBs that I hooked up with on SA, I had relationships with about half of them. I did feel that while we were seeing each other, we should be kind of exclusive. This, of course, only applied to my home market. When I used SA on the road, then I did not care if those girls saw other guys.

So, what I expected with non-PPM SBs in my home market was something like this: We meet, we totally fall for each other, we see each other regularly, I help her with expenses, she does not fuck other guys, we both get off of SA, but when the relationship fizzles after a few months, then we both go back on SA. Many of my SBs did this without my even asking them to. After we met and fell for each other, she would take her profile off the site and so did I. Then, after a couple of months of awesome raw dogging, traveling, wining and dining, we both get bored and we move on. However, I later discovered that some of these SBs had other profiles and were on other arrangement sites, which kind of pissed me off.

I obviously do not get pissed of when a WG fucks other guys. Should I feel the same way if an SB fucks other guys? If so, then what's the difference between an SB and a WG?

The difference is fuzzy. I started seeing one WG regularly after she tried to go legit. It was great. But then I found out later that she went back to hooking. I was pretty devastated. I stopped seeing her for a few months. But then I saw her again, and it was like old times. I will see her again, even though she is hooking again. Is she an SB or is she a WG?

Maybe the difference between my view and some of your views is that I did view SBs as longer term arrangements, whereas maybe a lot of you guys look at them as very short term arrangements or as PPMs. But if this is the case, then doesn't this mean that you guys are not really seeking arrangements?

I look at SBs as one notch below GF. Seems like some of you guys may see SBs as one notch above WG. If so, then this just explains our difference in views on the exclusivity issue.

Again, not arguing with you guys. Just think this is an interesting discussion, and so I wanted to share my thoughts for your consideration.[/QUOTE]Really I think the difference between us is our POV on monogamy. I think it's an unnatural farce and waste of mental and emotional energy. We all want to fuck more than one person (except Elvis. Heheheh) so why do we prevent our partners from doing so? If fucking another guy makes her happy I want that for her. Frankly I hope she is fucking some amazingly handsome studs because good for her — she deserves it.

I don't want to hear about it because yes even I have that instant jealous reaction. But what I don't know won't hurt me and if it makes her happy then rock on. No monogamy for any involved party. That's my philosophy.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2589570]I totally understand you guys when you say we should allow SBs to see others SDs. But OTOH, aren't we on SA for some semi-genuine GFE? If we are totally okay with our SBs seeing other SDs, then isn't this the same thing as being with a WG?

Of the 25 or so SBs that I hooked up with on SA, I had relationships with about half of them. I did feel that while we were seeing each other, we should be kind of exclusive. This, of course, only applied to my home market. When I used SA on the road, then I did not care if those girls saw other guys.

So, what I expected with non-PPM SBs in my home market was something like this: We meet, we totally fall for each other, we see each other regularly, I help her with expenses, she does not fuck other guys, we both get off of SA, but when the relationship fizzles after a few months, then we both go back on SA. Many of my SBs did this without my even asking them to. After we met and fell for each other, she would take her profile off the site and so did I. Then, after a couple of months of awesome raw dogging, traveling, wining and dining, we both get bored and we move on. However, I later discovered that some of these SBs had other profiles and were on other arrangement sites, which kind of pissed me off..[/QUOTE]Sorry, I shouldn't have used the word hypocrisy in my prior post. Too harsh and unnecessarily judgmental, sorry about that. I totally get your pov. Wanting to have exclusive arrangement, even if it is expected to temporary is absolutely fine. I would only have a problem if the guy intends to keep seeing multiple girls off and on SA but demands exclusivity from his girls. Actually even that is OK if the guy makes it clear to the girl that he intends to see other women but wants her to be exclusive to him. If the girl agrees to it, why not? I remember there were some porn girls who would do scenes only with their boyfriends but the boyfriend would fuck other girls on the screen. I guess it works for them, so it is no one else's business.

As for "is the girl WG if the guy and girl are not exclusive to each other" - that would not be my thought. We are not calling the guy a gigolo or whatever here, why use labels? We all know and think SA girls are not tutes by any stretch. She is not dropping to her knees and sucking 10 strangers' dicks a night for a few hundred dollars each. I think of each of these arrangements as a friends with benefits relation. Imagine a world where sex was not taboo. People fuck because they like fucking. She likes sex, I like sex, I help out a little because I can and she needs it. There is no expectation that I need to keep fucking her again and again because I fucked her once, or twice or a few times.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2589570]I totally understand you guys when you say we should allow SBs to see others SDs. But OTOH, aren't we on SA for some semi-genuine GFE? If we are totally okay with our SBs seeing other SDs, then isn't this the same thing as being with a WG?

Again, not arguing with you guys. Just think this is an interesting discussion, and so I wanted to share my thoughts for your consideration.[/QUOTE]Yeah, it is always good to be looking out for the definition because so many people try to define a sugar baby / daddy and miss.

Thing is when I started I was married and it would be hypocritical for me to say you cannot have a BF when I am banging the Mrs.

What I told my gals is they could have another SD (but not 10). Maybe some had more. I do not know. I am not sure how much you can control women on this subject. In general though, I do not think women want a whole lot of lovers.

As for what separates WG from SBs, to me, it is the emotional component. With a SB, I want to give money to enhance her life. With a WG, if she wants to take the money I give to her and put it up her nose, I don't care.

With most of my ex SBs, if they called me or I called them, it would be a positive thing. I hope I influenced their life in a positive way.

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2588903]Very interesting theory. I think ISG's emphasis on the third world gathers guys with a different viewpoint than most guys who mostly see USA Escorts.

I was intrigued by TJBrazil's skepticism about there being USA Nurse's and engineers on the SA site. If a young lady earns $100,000 a year, and also likes sex, why in the world would she not be interested in earning an additional $10,000 of cash income and gifts a year doing something that is not all that time consuming? It happens all of the time. Some of those potential ladies escort, but that requires a lot more effort, upfront cost, and chance of obvious discovery than SA. It is a dream come true for them. They are going on a date. I also did not understand TJBrazil's belief that the gift section of SA somehow substituted for a "date fee", or that it was there to provide additional legal protection. It is designed as an additional gift. It is not illegal in the USA To purchase the time and companionship of an escort, and it is certainly not illegal to pay someone to go on a date. Direct cash for sex is illegal, and soliciting sex for cash is illegal (which is the basis for almost all USA Prostitution arrests, since directly proving that sex occurs is very difficult).[/QUOTE]A few things. If a girl is making 100 k as a nurse, SA could be a dangerous side hobby to make an extra 10 k. People are killed on tinder Craigslist and I'm assuming SA. It just doesn't make sense to me. 100 k is a lot in pretty much any city unless you're a complete nut with money like Mike Tyson. Why can't the girl have sex with a doctor or someone else that isn't on SA.

Your other point about the gifts being used as cover for illegal prostitution. There has to be Something to it from the owner of SA perspective. There are a lot of dumb johns that are still getting arrested on the street and with online stings when they mention sex for money. Sure paying a escort for her time is legal, but I don't think a lot of men in America got the message, or stings would never produce any arrests. Also I imagine the moderators are constantly flagging and deleting accounts of people that talk about sex for money. Adding the gifts section allows more profits and for even the dumbest johns to stay out of trouble.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2589276]I signed up on SA a few months ago but there were many who were obviously escorts. While I chatted up a few good ones, due to personal circumstances (plus annoyed by the escorts), I went off of it. I'm back on now. Chatted with over 40 profiles and weeded down to 4 leads. (10% hit rate; will be weeded down further).

Of the 4 leads worth pursuing, one is a 34 year old Pics looks like a 8; Single mom but just looking for some fun. Another is a 33 year old She was apparently in a serious relationship but broke up about a year ago. She just wants to have a 'man' occasionally. She has even shared her personal name, work place, phone number with me. Meeting her for a first M&G next weekend. Looking forward to it (but a bit wary that this one is coming off of a relationship. Let's see how it goes). Both these don't seem to be expecting anything in return other than taking them out for dinners / weekend getaways but will know more when I do M&G.

On the other end of spectrum, there are a couple of 20/22 y. o claiming to be students. Of course, I will screen them and test if they are really students but they keep directing to conversations around "gifts", "pamper me", "take care of me, I will take care of you" kind of things. Seems to be a significant difference in approach between the two demography.

I'm gradually getting back into the scene and I'm going to try both ends of the spectrum. Will circle back with detailed reports when things happen. I'm taking things slow and easy.

All said and done. I owe it to this forum and guidance from y'll veterans. Your tips / suggestions are much appreciated. Happy to contribute back to the forum.[/QUOTE]Where in Europe is this?

I myself, am living in Sweden. I have SBs in Gothenburg as well as Stockholm, I meet on a regular basis.

I have, when travelling in Europe, met girls in Athens, Berlin, Madrid so far.