Kyiv

Article and editorial in professional medical journal, versus mass media, which suggests fatality rate under 1%. I previously posted a link to the official UK government agency for public health, which no longer regards covid19 as a serious threat, because fatality rate is low.

[URL]https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2001316[/URL]

[URL]https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2002387[/URL]

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2437712]My assumption was that within few months spent with Ukrainian beauties YummyPL will pick up enough of Russian. Perhaps he already speaks well enough. [/QUOTE]My Russian is quite poor but passable. I am actually working on my Ukrainian. I assume that they always think I am a sex tourist on first meeting, but the Ukrainian speaking should reinforce that I am living and working in Ukraine as I suspect it is significantly less common among casual visitors. PhotoSlider I really think you should try switching.

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2437712]Enjoy, compensate, and have no hard feelings.[/QUOTE]This is exactly the right attitude however "compensate" can have broad meanings. I like to experiment. Time will tell what methods work best for me.

[QUOTE=Guntherus;2437906]Close Ukraine and you will only delay the spread for some months or a year. It will hit hard when it hits.[/QUOTE]Yeah, too late. Closing borders only works at early stage. North Korea suspended its only international airline between Pyongyang and Beijing in January, and they have zero coronavirus case so far.

[QUOTE=YummyPL;2437938]My Russian is quite poor but passable. I am actually working on my Ukrainian.[/QUOTE]
I find it impossible to learn two similar languages at once. Since I'm still learning Russian, that rules out learning Ukrainian as a spoken language, at least for now. Instead, I'm learning to read it, using the following Anki decks, which are text only, no audio:

https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/812422769
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1344132972
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/113587335

Even though these decks are Ukrainian to English, I actually practice translating Ukrainian to Russian. For difficult sentences, I use Google translate to get the Ukrainian to Russian transaction, or use the Ukrainian-Russian dictionary of ABBYY app for individual words. Translating Ukrainian to Russian is easier than Ukrainian to English, even for me, because Ukrainian and Russian have such similar structure.

If you want to learn Ukrainian pronunciation, use this Anki deck, which has native audio:

https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1520102967

Anki is an extremely powerful learning system. Windows version and Android app (AnkiDroid) are free, whereas there is a small charge for iPhone app.

Everyone in Ukraine can understand Russian, and most people understand both languages, but many people only speak one language. So understanding Ukrainian is more important than speaking it. Even with conversations between native Ukrainians, often one person will speak Russian, the other will reply in Ukrainian, and they both understand the other perfectly.

[QUOTE=Guntherus;2437906]Iceland also has managed to avoid exponential rise, and NB not by closing the country (which would have been easy), but by extensive testing and isolating infected persons ASAP. And everybody who they had contacted earlier.

Close Ukraine and you will only delay the spread for some months or a year. It willhit hard when it hits.[/QUOTE]Population of Iceland is under 400 K. Ukraine is 100 times larger, and much less disciplined, or one may say much more free spirited. Simple Graph Theory from Math class in the college.

[QUOTE=YummyPL;2437938]My Russian is quite poor but passable. I am actually working on my Ukrainian. I assume that they always think I am a sex tourist on first meeting, but the Ukrainian speaking should reinforce that I am living and working in Ukraine as I suspect it is significantly less common among casual visitors. PhotoSlider I really think you should try switching.[/QUOTE]Russian is my native language.

Agree with your suggestion, and in 2016 already started practicing Ukrainian with a lovely girl from Rio strip club. Extended and diversified further. I understand about 80% now when good rich (not a limited surrogate) Ukrainian is spoken. Which I am certainly proud of, as real Ukrainian is closer to Polish and Czech, and significantly different from Russian. So, yeah, I read a lot now, watch movies, and most importantly, ask the girls I meet to speak to me in Ukrainian. Love the language. I am Ukrainian by heritage BTW, as are a few on this Forum.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2437954]...Everyone in Ukraine can understand Russian, and most people understand both languages, but many people only speak one language. So understanding Ukrainian is more important than speaking it. Even with conversations between native Ukrainians, often one person will speak Russian, the other will reply in Ukrainian, and they both understand the other perfectly.[/QUOTE]The current status is precisely as Kozerog describes it.

Over time there is a slow gradient, changing towards more and more Ukrainian due to it being education language at schools and universities. But there is no rejection of Russian in the daily life. In fact when I did my poor attempts at speaking Ukrainian to Uber drivers, they were tolerant at first, and then seeing how much I suffer, suggested switching to Russian, even though their Ukrainian was impeccable.

Linguistically Russian is certainly closer to Ukrainian than any Germanic (English, etc.) or Latin (Spanish, French, Italian) language.

For any foreigner either Russian or Ukrainian would be tough, but very rewarding. Therefore one of them is enough.

If you are traveling anywhere besides Kiev, for example Minsk or Moscow, then definitely pick up Russian over Ukrainian.

Russian is slowly disappearing throughout the former Soviet Union, for example in Latvia it was forced out, and then due to business need had a substantial comeback in the service industry. Everybody speaks Lithuanian in Lietuva, and young generation doesn't know Russian anymore. Russian is a Lingua Franca to a lesser and lesser extent. In fact English improved significantly everywhere. Not in the remote villages, but educated individuals, especially with a college degree, or well-travelled girls speak or at least follow English quite nicely. Waiters at the good restaurants also speak. Sophisticated dialog is another matter.

And learning new language with a hot girl is so much fun! I do cards, like Kozerog, with specific words and phrases like:

- I want to make love to you!

- You have beautiful nipples.

- Can you move a little closer?

She teaches me Ukrainian, and I teach her English.

[QUOTE=YummyPL;2437938]...This is exactly the right attitude however "compensate" can have broad meanings. I like to experiment. Time will tell what methods work best for me.[/QUOTE]Different girls, different meaning indeed. Envelope with cash was seldom rejected, and with certain regulars even requested without any ambiguity. For some girls from remote towns and universities it is the ability to spend the night in the secure location. For some it is entertainment. Most of them genuinely want sex, many refuse to leave unsatisfied. So yes, broad meanings.

As long as statistically you are better than average undertaker, local or visiting, there will be acceptable and even outstanding offering over sufficient period of time. Free market. Supply demand.

I would love to jump forward in time and learn how Kiev will change yet again. Do not want to speculate.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2437954]Instead, I'm learning to read it, using the following Anki decks, which are text only, no audio:[/QUOTE]Thank you for the links. I took a look. Anki is useful but I prefer [URL]memrise.com[/URL]. I am building my own decks using materials from other decks.

Ukraine locked down:

[URL]https://www.kmu.gov.ua/en/news/uryad-zatverdiv-novi-obmezhuvalni-zahodi-u-borotbi-z-koronavirusom[/URL]

Guys,

Stay safe and keep the girls healthy.

[URL]https://covid19.com.ua/[/URL]

Young girls may keep working as they think they are invincible.

Kharkiv may be the place to go now.

I don't want to cause unnecessary panic, but there are rumors that covid-19 has caused disruptions in the condom supply chain. Condoms are mostly made in Asia. I stocked up just to be safe, since I and my regular are strict about condom usage. I could have asked her to stock up, but better to do it myself. I also bought a tube of quality lube just in case of supply chain issues with that. There might also be supply chain issues with sildenafil (Viagra) and other pharmaceuticals, so if you rely on these, consider stocking up.

I use condoms mainly for protection from gonorrhea (some strains of which are drug resistant), chlamydia (not yet drug resistant but heading there), warts (HPV), trichomoniasis and non-specific urethritis, all of which are non-fatal but widespread and a nuisance to treat. HIV, syphilis and hepatitis should be a minor concern in Ukraine unless the girl uses hard drugs or is a street urchin. It's possible to get some of the non-fatal diseases in the mouth, though less common than urinary tract, because the mouth is designed to deal with external pathogens whereas urinary tract is not.

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2438047]The current status is precisely as Kozerog describes it.

Over time there is a slow gradient, changing towards more and more Ukrainian due to it being education language at schools and universities. But there is no rejection of Russian in the daily life. In fact when I did my poor attempts at speaking Ukrainian to Uber drivers, they were tolerant at first, and then seeing how much I suffer, suggested switching to Russian, even though their Ukrainian was impeccable.

Linguistically Russian is certainly closer to Ukrainian than any Germanic (English, etc.) or Latin (Spanish, French, Italian) language.

For any foreigner either Russian or Ukrainian would be tough, but very rewarding. Therefore one of them is enough.

If you are traveling anywhere besides Kiev, for example Minsk or Moscow, then definitely pick up Russian over Ukrainian.[/QUOTE]This brings up a question that I'm sure will provoke plenty of opinionated responses. I know everyone's experience will be different (YMMV) so I only ask that your opinion be substantiated by multiple samples in your comparison.

A bit of background:

I have mostly been mongering in Czechia (Prague) and London, so I am used to the SA environment and the quality and standards in those locations. I have experimented in Germany, Amsterdam, Poland (have a fav Ukrainian there), and Austria, but mostly singular occurrences. Languages: English (N), Romanian, some German / Czech / Spanish. I have had really good experiences with Ukrainian providers in Prague and Warsaw. It's also been mentioned to me that Ukraine is the "place to go". I've heard the same of Moscow and Budapest.

I'm not a big fan of FKKs, or RLD, or anything that's simply bust a nut and go. I would normally shoot for a 3+ hour session (def GFE). Usually when in Europe for work, I have 3-4 days to blow which is when I normally travel and partake in the hobby.

Question:

Where would you guys recommend to go, for quality at really reasonable prices? I don't need to be spoon fed. A simple point in the right direction is enough. Are there places in EE that you would definitely stay away from? Are there places you would avoid if you didn't' know the local language?

I'm just looking for solid opinions of good places to try once this pandemic has ended.

Thanks.

Kiev Post says today that Per Capita GDP in Ukraine is $5400.

Wiki says it was $3600 in 2019.

I'm not sure where the statistics come from.