Super natural 50 Euro go beyond the natures rule to make the stunners what her daddy do not want her to do LOL!
50 Euro AKA Anal licking receiver at Westkreuz United LOL!
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Super natural 50 Euro go beyond the natures rule to make the stunners what her daddy do not want her to do LOL!
50 Euro AKA Anal licking receiver at Westkreuz United LOL!
Fun in going the club will be lost because if we have to obey a lot of conditions. IMHO things will be normal as it was in the past when the present critical situation get diluted. But the situation I expect to happen that the management and the ladies will use the present scenario to up sell the service provided for the consumers. Unity of consumers of clubs are only through anonymous forums, so we are in the back foot. So a proper discussion will be needed to maintain the charm of visiting clubs as before.
[QUOTE=SharksHunter;2573474]I'm a believer in paying for services rendered as well, and choose to opt for a 100 E /60 M session instead of haggling for a 50 E /30 M session. However, if they were to raise their price upon my next trip and say 150 E /60 M with DFK / BBBJ I'd try to at least bargain downwards based off past experiences. I'd at least want an extra like CIM or A. If unsuccessful I'd be upset momentarily, but would likely be forced to reconcile those differences and pay the higher rate. Traveling on a cross country flight and turning down a session over 50 euros doesn't quite make sense.
Tipping extra is different IMO, and I'm fine with an extra 10-20 E but it varies per person.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=SharksHunter;2573318]It's a business and they're allowed to charge whatever rates they choose. You as well can go find other clubs, not a big deal. Thinking "other men will not go" is equivalent to being out of touch with reality. The market has already spoken given that more men showed up than girls on opening night. Highly doubt that people traveling across Europe, Asia, USA are going to cancel a trip over 50 euros. You're too caught up in the money and not thinking about the experience and enjoyment. These girls are there to make money and they will upcharge for services because they can as long as people are willing to say yes. One shouldn't dictate how another spends their time and money.
I never quite understood this infatuation with being frugal towards mongering. So many people feel "entitlement" to DFK / BBBJ services being standard for 50 euros. It's a common tactic to have a Basic package and Premium package. Standards change over time especially now given the risks of COVID. Besides that have you ever heard of inflation? 50 Euros 1-2 years ago ain't the same as 50 Euros now. These girls were likely hit the hardest I'm sure they could use the extra 50-100 euros more than you. Quit being cheap and treating them like machines, instead have a bit of compassion and pay them a fair rate for their services.[/QUOTE]
Very well said! I remember when I was finishing off college years ago someone explained to me that, in a free market, you're worth as much as someone is willing to pay you. You nailed the "entitlement" attitude and inflation. When the FKK system started 20 years ago, it was setup to be 50 Euros for 30 minutes that included DFK and BBBJ. It seems unreasonable today to expect the service to be exactly the same like 20 years ago for 50 Euros. Do you spend the same amount on a barber visit as you did 20 years ago? Do you get charged for the same hourly rate to repair your car at a mechanical shop as you did 20 years ago? Do you pay for the same ticket price to watch a professional football game in person in a stadium as you did 20 years ago? I can go on and on. Lets get real here. Almost every thing and service are more expensive today than they were 20 years ago because of inflation. Here is a big question. Do you get paid from your job, at least nominally, as much or more as you did 20 years ago? I hope the answer is more. If you're OK with that but not OK with the girls getting paid more to keep up with inflation, you're a hypocrite. Don't get me wrong. I'd love to pay 50 Euros that includes every GFE service I want with a super model for God sake, but I also recognize the economic reality of how things are going today.
I agree with the argument about paying for the service rendered, but in many cases thats not whats happening. Have you ever wondered why we dont see that many hot young chics, especially the German/Polish/Russian ones, working in the clubs anymore, or they showed up few days and then disappeared? Expecting them to provide the GFE services for 50 Euros as the way it was 20 years ago is like expecting them to get a paid cut for the same service if you consider inflation. Thats exactly what many of you are asking for. No wonder we dont see any German stunner working at these clubs anymore. Gee, why didnt all the chics with 8 or above just come to the clubs and let everybody fucked for 50 Euros. I wonder what incentive they would have to work in the clubs. Hmmm, let me think. (Sense little bit of sarcasm here?) To get the equivalent of 50 Euros 20 years ago, the girls need to make at least 75 Euros /30 minutes according to the inflation link below. That calculation is based on CPI (Consumer Price Index) which, many economists rightfully argue, dont completely reflect the true inflation because CPI excludes the prices of food and energy. In fact, many top tier girls already reasonably asked for 150 Euros for 1 hour of passionate GFE session couple years ago which I had no problem to oblige. That was NOT overpaying, NOT even close after adjusting for inflation. I dont advocate to overpay the girls. Im simply pointing out the insidiousness of inflation that many mongers dont seem to have a fucking clue about. Whether you agree if CPI should apply to P4P doesnt matter. The fact is that all the women from the clubs will end up spending your Euros on manicure, makeup, transportation, groceries, rent, etc. All of which have all gone up in prices. They could buy more stuff with the same 50 Euros 20 years ago for sure. Thats the bottom line. (Note that the currency unit in the link is in dollar, but the inflation rate calculation for Euro is not that much different because both currencies track each other relatively.)
www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/2001?amount=50
A lot of the grumbling about some mongers overpaying the girls probably stem from jealousy, resentment, and/or insecurity. Many mongers have the gall to lecture others to not over pay or go somewhere else so they think they can maintain the same pricing structure like 20 years ago. Good luck with that. They talk like as if they care about the locals, but in fact they are threatened by their own financial insecurity. Are you resentful that some international mongers have the financial mean to pay the girls more than you can afford or want to? You are making at least 50% more than you are 20 years ago at least in nominal term. Right? If yes, what do you complain about 75 Euros /30 or 150 Euros /60 mins session? You dont really pay more in real term. If you are not making more money over the past 20 years, why arent you? Thats the question you should ask yourself seriously instead of just blaming how other mongers can screw up your affordability to play in this hobby. If you are making more money today, why would you care if the other mongers pay the girls more (even though many of you keep ignoring inflation)? These so called over pay international mongers may have some effect in the pricing system, but they are not really the ones to blame. There is something else at play here that no one else seems to want to talk about. Ill get to that point in a different post if I get motivated enough since its getting long here.
I bet many of you feel like to chime in to make a point that you can find some hotties doing DFK and BBBJ for 50 Euros. I suspect that those are not the top notch girls that many would consider stunners. I bet if you negotiate with Sylvana for 40 Euros for 30 GFE minutes, she would probably consider it because shes not that much in demand (not that I would expect anyone go with her even for free). Would you complain about that? An unattractive girl will probably provide you 30 minutes of GFE for 50 Euros. If you are fine with that, go for it. There is nothing wrong with that. Thats how the market prices a service according to supply and demand from the customers in the clubs. Remember. You are worth as much as someone is willing to pay you. So are the FKK girls.
First of all I would add that prostitution is not a formal job matched to inflation. It's informal unqualified gig-type work, no different than selling watches on the street, or otherwise working door to door.
There is no indexing to inflation for prostitution. Its advantage, only advantage is its remuneration.
The crucial question here is not what the price would be if indexed to inflation, but what it is for them, and what it is comparatively for other jobs in Germany? I will ask the question, before you happily start advocating increasing the price, which jobs in Germany pay 100 euros an hour? (and by giving them the whole hour as "worked" time, I am being very very generous).
On the effect of pay on the availability of "hot" chicks, which is relative, I would say that a direct relation is not clearly established. 90% of the girls are from Eastern Europe, Romania and Bulgaria, who essentially migrate her to work in the clubs, some for very short periods of time before returning home. What they are earning here is not what they would be earning back home, amongst locals, I promise you, and that factors in further that they are working illegally there, in much less clean and safe surroundings, and with probably much worse customers.
New girls come and go in all the time, of different ages, for different reasons, whether in the FKK clubs or the RLD. I am not seeing what you have been seeing. Nostalgia from 20 years ago doesn't help give an objective view of the situation.
[QUOTE=MoneySign;2574007]In fact, many top tier girls already reasonably asked for 150 Euros for 1 hour of passionate GFE session couple years ago which I had no problem to oblige.[/QUOTE]There is probably a good reason for that, inflation not being it.
[QUOTE=MoneySign;2574007]I bet many of you feel like to chime in to make a point that you can find some hotties doing DFK and BBBJ for 50 Euros. I suspect that those are not the top notch girls that many would consider stunners. [/QUOTE]That's an irrefutable argument isn't it: "I am paying fair value for stunners. If you are paying less, then those girls aren't stunners".
You would be surprised what you can negotiate with the willingness to say no.
[QUOTE=MoneySign;2574007]Many mongers have the gall to lecture others to not over pay or go somewhere else so they think they can maintain the same pricing structure like 20 years ago. Good luck with that. They talk like as if they care about the locals, but in fact they are threatened by their own financial insecurity. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=MoneySign;2574007]Are you resentful that some international mongers have the financial mean to pay the girls more than you can afford or want to? You are making at least 50% more than you are 20 years ago at least in nominal term. Right? [/QUOTE]The point stands that there are clubs that are geared towards tourists, and those towards locals. The former have higher prices than the latter. Why is that?
Because whilst the locals come there quite often and relax, the tourist-oriented clubs have a fly-in clientele of people on business trips or on holiday that are quite comfortable to overpay and girls that are happy to oblige. Then people like you come along and make the argument that they're not overpaying, that is now "market-rate". It's not just wrong, but annoying to say the least, Mr. Economics Mastermind.
I will probably post more news as it comes in. Personally I will be waiting a bit longer before diving into an FKK:
-rebalancing with more girls arriving to stop these obscene guest / girl ratios.
-developments in corona restrictions: wearing a mask inside is still a bit of a deal breaker in a place where I want to relax.
-facilities need to be open: sauna, pools, steam baths, food.
Can't wait but unfortunately I will need to.
[QUOTE=MoneySign;2574007]Very well said! I remember when I was finishing off college years ago someone explained to me that, in a free market, you're worth as much as someone is willing to pay you. You nailed the "entitlement" attitude and inflation. When the FKK system started 20 years ago, it was setup to be 50 Euros for 30 minutes that included DFK and BBBJ. It seems unreasonable today to expect the service to be exactly the same like 20 years ago for 50 Euros. Do you spend the same amount on a barber visit as you did 20 years ago? Do you get charged for the same hourly rate to repair your car at a mechanical shop as you did 20 years ago? Do you pay for the same ticket price to watch a professional football game in person in a stadium as you did 20 years ago? I can go on and on. Lets get real here. Almost every thing and service are more expensive today than they were 20 years ago because of inflation. Here is a big question. Do you get paid from your job, at least nominally, as much or more as you did 20 years ago? I hope the answer is more. If you're OK with that but not OK with the girls getting paid more to keep up with inflation, you're a hypocrite. Don't get me wrong. I'd love to pay 50 Euros that includes every GFE service I want with a super model for God sake, but I also recognize the economic reality of how things are going today.
I agree with the argument about paying for the service rendered, but in many cases thats not whats happening. Have you ever wondered why we dont see that many hot young chics, especially the German/Polish/Russian ones, working in the clubs anymore, or they showed up few days and then disappeared? Expecting them to provide the GFE services for 50 Euros as the way it was 20 years ago is like expecting them to get a paid cut for the same service if you consider inflation. Thats exactly what many of you are asking for..[/QUOTE]On this reopening, went to Samya Koln and 2 Swiss clubs and also checked king Globe casting. My best room was at Samya for club rate and my lowest with a ex Globe cute girl for nearly twice rate in Switzerland. Pretty Elisa Oase moved to Globe on Summer 2020 after putting silicon after Oase where I got her full flesh perfect tits and pretty, but I won't pay more expensive for silicon, when flesh worth more expensive for me. Switzerland which is more expensive, is not anymore higher level than Germany, when their WGs mostly come from Germany but with less freshness, but more tattoos and silicon. Expensive don t mean quality and same for quantity also not meaning quality. I prefer only 1 beauty on my standard than many average, and now more freshness in Germany, when Switzerland is more complicated for new blood.
[QUOTE=Lanthano;2574045]First of all I would add that prostitution is not a formal job matched to inflation. It's informal unqualified gig-type work, no different than selling watches on the street, or otherwise working door to door.
There is no indexing to inflation for prostitution. Its advantage, only advantage is its remuneration.
The crucial question here is not what the price would be if indexed to inflation, but what it is for them, and what it is comparatively for other jobs in Germany? I will ask the question, before you happily start advocating increasing the price, which jobs in Germany pay 100 euros an hour? (and by giving them the whole hour as "worked" time, I am being very very generous).
On the effect of pay on the availability of "hot" chicks, which is relative, I would say that a direct relation is not clearly established. 90% of the girls are from Eastern Europe, Romania and Bulgaria, who essentially migrate her to work in the clubs, some for very short periods of time before returning home. What they are earning here is not what they would be earning back home, amongst locals, I promise you, and that factors in further that they are working illegally there, in much less clean and safe surroundings, and with probably much worse customers.
New girls come and go in all the time, of different ages, for different reasons, whether in the FKK clubs or the RLD. I am not seeing what you have been seeing. Nostalgia from 20 years ago doesn't help give an objective view of the situation.
There is probably a good reason for that, inflation not being it..[/QUOTE]Prostitution is a more difficult job than working in office or shop. 80/100/60 is fair rate for me for such difficult job. I was happy for my regulars telling me they made around 5000 in the week minus entry to pay, about 40/60 per day. I was sad for my World regular when I was her only business on some Saturdays nights, with 2 or 3 1 hour rooms with me for 200/300 , or when she came for me, making only 200 with me, when having to pay entry 75/95. I apologized, she answered: no problem. All girls don t worth same rate for me, I prefer to pay more expensive for a beauty than paying for a average look, but my regulars are usually girls who don t speak about money, when grocery kill my desire. Just my subjective from a very different guy, way of thinking, of course.
[QUOTE=HammerTime96;2573761]Exactly, but the naivety (read: stupidity) of some people is mind boggling. They honestly want to believe the bullshit, for example that no totalitarian government will store the covid1984 tracking apps data pointing straight to sex clubs, and that FKK clubs will destroy the data after 10 days.
And then they'll go: "yeah but I'm not married, so I don't care." Well Optimist and Lanthano: do you have a job? Do you have a bank account? Do you have relatives and friends? (a quick search on Facebook by the people who have your data will probably reveal a lot) People are getting "cancelled" because of politically incorrect thoughts or behaviour, so how high do you think that some white heterosexual sex tourist fucking 'exploited women from poor Eastern European countries' will score on the 'to-be-cancelled-list' in the US?
What happens to those lists with names, phone numbers and addresses that FKK clubs keep? Do people honestly believe that the police or somebody from the German authorities will check that those lists are destroyed after 10 days? Do you think they care? Hell no, they got the same things in mind! HAHAHAHA![/QUOTE]Why would you care if other people (including me) are willing to give some personal details to the clubs? You are free not to go if you have concerns about your data being shared, although you may be surprised by how much your phone provider and google know about you and your habits. Also ISG is an unsecured website (see the striked padlock in the address bar? So your internet browsing address details may be visible.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2573747]All you need is a rogue employee with a desire to make some money by blackmailing married clients.[/QUOTE]I read something similar happened in Globe, but not by employee, but by third party person taking photo of a married guy going in and out of the club!
But clubs are doing what they can to protect themselves as one cluster will lead to bunch of feminist type politicians crying out loud to try to shut all FKK down for good as they always have been trying for long time LOL!
All I can say is whatta world it has come to hey? LOL! Everyone wearing masks, mass graves were set in some cities around globe, alcohol disinfection at every shop upon entering, pcr test, such and such test, lock down etc It is crazy how the world changed just in course of two years! And above all the last time I got my dick sucked by three different stunners with in about 6 hours within the same day everyday was last year in February LOL! My penis did not see this coming back then LOL!
[QUOTE=MoneySign;2574007] They could buy more stuff with the same 50 Euros 20 years ago for sure. Thats the bottom line. (Note that the currency unit in the link is in dollar, but the inflation rate calculation for Euro is not that much different because both currencies track each other relatively.)
[URL]www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/2001?amount=50[/URL].
[/QUOTE]Why use dollars when the data is available in the relevant currency? [URL]https://www.in2013dollars.com/europe/inflation/2002[/URL].
Yes the official rate of 50 Euro per half hour has been fixed for a long time, but at least one other factor has moved in favour of most of the girls. The Romanian leu was revalued in July 2005. A Euro in January 2006 was worth 3. 6802 lei, but by the end of 2019 the rate was 4. 7828 or nearly 30% in the girls favour. [URL]https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/policy_and_exchange_rates/euro_reference_exchange_rates/html/eurofxref-graph-ron.en.html[/URL]. Over the same time period 50 Euro grew to 60.61 Euro, according to the in2013 dollars link (50 Euro from 2002 was worth 66.98 Euro by the end of 2019). Either way it's some distance from the 50 Euro to 75 Euro jump that you advocate.
[QUOTE=MoneySign;2574007] You are making at least 50% more than you are 20 years ago at least in nominal term. Right?[/QUOTE]German wage growth has apparently been very restrained over the last 20 years. In 2000 the average wage was 34,711 and by the start of 2020 it had only risen to 42,421. A mere 22% increase. [URL]https://www.statista.com/statistics/416207/average-annual-wages-germany-y-on-y-in-euros/[/URL].
[QUOTE=Samplerr;2574111]Why use dollars when the data is available in the relevant currency? [URL]https://www.in2013dollars.com/europe/inflation/2002[/URL].
Yes the official rate of 50 Euro per half hour has been fixed for a long time, but at least one other factor has moved in favour of most of the girls. The Romanian leu was revalued in July 2005. A Euro in January 2006 was worth 3. 6802 lei, but by the end of 2019 the rate was 4. 7828 or nearly 30% in the girls favour. [URL]https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/policy_and_exchange_rates/euro_reference_exchange_rates/html/eurofxref-graph-ron.en.html[/URL]. Over the same time period 50 Euro grew to 60.61 Euro, according to the in2013 dollars link (50 Euro from 2002 was worth 66.98 Euro by the end of 2019). Either way it's some distance from the 50 Euro to 75 Euro jump that you advocate.
German wage growth has apparently been very restrained over the last 20 years. In 2000 the average wage was 34,711 and by the start of 2020 it had only risen to 42,421. A mere 22% increase. [URL]https://www.statista.com/statistics/416207/average-annual-wages-germany-y-on-y-in-euros/[/URL].[/QUOTE]I get both sides of this. If you are doing it often you need minimum price. If you are doing it infrequently you don't mind paying more. That's pretty simple. I don't understand why it's 50 or 100. What negotiation in the world is between price A and 2 X price A? If the girls would charge 60 instead of 50 then I doubt anyone would complain that much. A 20% increase over a 20 year period should not be that unreasonable to anyone.
The "we only work in increments of 50" — ie you pay 1 x or 2 x or 3 x but never 1. 2 X is the root of all evil IMO.
[QUOTE=Samplerr;2574111]Why use dollars when the data is available in the relevant currency? [URL]https://www.in2013dollars.com/europe/inflation/2002[/URL].
Yes the official rate of 50 Euro per half hour has been fixed for a long time, but at least one other factor has moved in favour of most of the girls. The Romanian leu was revalued in July 2005. A Euro in January 2006 was worth 3. 6802 lei, but by the end of 2019 the rate was 4. 7828 or nearly 30% in the girls favour. [URL]https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/policy_and_exchange_rates/euro_reference_exchange_rates/html/eurofxref-graph-ron.en.html[/URL]. Over the same time period 50 Euro grew to 60.61 Euro, according to the in2013 dollars link (50 Euro from 2002 was worth 66.98 Euro by the end of 2019). Either way it's some distance from the 50 Euro to 75 Euro jump that you advocate.
German wage growth has apparently been very restrained over the last 20 years. In 2000 the average wage was 34,711 and by the start of 2020 it had only risen to 42,421. A mere 22% increase. [URL]https://www.statista.com/statistics/416207/average-annual-wages-germany-y-on-y-in-euros/[/URL].[/QUOTE]Your number is not correct either. To be technically correct, the inflation adjusted price should be about 70 Euros (round off 68.5) as shown in the updated URL below. Year 2001 is used because that's when FKK started and turns out to be exact 20 years for reference.
[URL]https://www.in2013dollars.com/europe/inflation/2001?amount=50[/URL]
I'm not advocating to overpay. I'm simply making the case on how inflation has eroded the purchasing power of your currency. Many mongers need to change their mind set to think differently. When paying 70 Euros /30 minutes, you are NOT paying more for God sake. Really, you are NOT. You're paying the same in real term even though the nominal value changes from 50 to 70. Don't just look at the nominal value. Look at the real value because 70 Euro is the same as 50 Euro 20 years ago. That's the whole point of my argument. It's little bit of psychology here. THINK THINK THINK!
Have you noticed that when you go buy groceries, many items don't seem to change the price until you look closer and realize that the amount in the packages have decreased over time? Noticed that? If the stores raise the price significantly, the customers would complain about it. Instead, they keep the price and size of the packages relatively the same but reduce the amount or volume in the package. The customers seem to be OK with that. You see how dumb many customers are. Why? Because most customers only look at the nominal value or the price that they get used to pay without accounting for inflation. Even though they are paying relatively same price, they are getting less without feeling it. Many economists call this shrinkflation. It's a way to trick the mind of the customers to think that everything stays relatively the same even though it does not. Get my point?
To pivot this back to our mongering world, the same thing seems to be happening. You can still get 50 Euros /30 min, but you probably won't get all the common GFE acronyms you want. You're definitely not getting that from the top-tier girls, no fucking way. You probably don't get DFK, or BBBJ, or hell even both in some clubs. It's just suck and fuck for "nominal" 50 Euros. It's kind of like buying groceries in a way. You're getting less for the same "nominal" price. If you have to pay 70 (or 75) Euros to get the GFE service you got 20 years ago, why would anyone object to that? You're NOT really paying more in "real" term after all. What do you have to lose? Think!
Listen, I will pay 60 or 75 or whatever it is that the locals want to set. But let them do it, not us the foreigner guests. I will pay the local prices and if they no longer make sense to me, I will vote with my travel wallet. I do a fair amount of sugar-dating in my own locality, as does Steve, and it is always a viable option. I am lucky enough to be in a reasonably low cost of living city and $200-300 gets nice sessions with pretty cute girls, have been doing this for 5+ years. But FKKs hold their allure. The ambience, the large # of quick selections, just the sheer vibe are all appealing. But if prices push 150/ HR and more, it is no longer a super compelling tradeoff especially when you take the travel and associated costs into account; I will do one or two trips annually instead of 4 to 6.
But this is all besides the point. The right to price for this product should be left to the locals. The guys full of themselves and giving lectures about free markets are off topic here. Prostitution is a local market, a local good. When thoughtless outsiders destroy the local pricing, locals are justifiably unhappy (and if foreign mongers have sense they don't want to make the locals unhappy). That is true whether it is Arab Sheikhs and Russian oligarchs buying up London properties or hedge funds buying up condos by the thousands or in our case, uneducated / uncaring mongers killing the very thing we all love. I can at least understand if it is a shy Asian in the club for the first time and too tongue tied and paying a bunch of extras in a 20 minute session; but someone arrogantly declaring they will pay 150 an hour just for the heck of it is just an asshole that deserves to be shunned.
Prices have implicitly crept up, have been, for a long time. This is nothing new. More and more girls have been rationing service (and denying what used to be included hitherto) in basic 50 sessions. This trend accelerated post 2016/17 law changes. It is what it is. No doubt the invasion by a large number of foreigners played a big part. Remains to be seen how Covid changed things, if any.
Are you really sure that FKK started in 2001? Maybe this is the case, but prostitution became regulated in Germany later, and most of the clubs opened later. More clubs = more supply = prices decrease.
In 2001 I don't think that you could find sauna clubs in every Lander, scarcity=higher prices.
If some people are so paranoid about clubs leaking their details just don't go to the clubs -- I am sure they'll survive without you but don't lecture us about being naive or stupid. There is no cure for paranoia.
And to the regular cheap charlies who keep on insisting on getting everything for 50 euros -- as many have said 50 euros today is worth much less than it was 15 years ago. Maybe you'll be happy if your company paid you 2005 wages? An even more important point is you have no right to tell people how to spend their money. If X wants to give a girl at an FKK club in Frankfurt 150 or 200 euros what is it to why. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen! Moreso as it spoils the atmosphere of these forums and is futile as no one is going to change their spending habits just because some cheap punks on ISG habitually complain!