Seeking Arrangements

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2589570]Maybe the difference between my view and some of your views is that I did view SBs as longer term arrangements, whereas maybe a lot of you guys look at them as very short term arrangements or as PPMs. But if this is the case, then doesn't this mean that you guys are not really seeking arrangements?

I look at SBs as one notch below GF. Seems like some of you guys may see SBs as one notch above WG. If so, then this just explains our difference in views on the exclusivity issue.

Again, not arguing with you guys. Just think this is an interesting discussion, and so I wanted to share my thoughts for your consideration.[/QUOTE]It would seem that you are inadvertently stirring up the hornet's nest. This topic comes up here periodically and gets debated. PPM would seem to be enough definition to describe the relationship in contrast to "arrangements".

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2589575]But we are all different. Like if you super dig cowgirl I think you are in the minority. Most guys like it in and out and to be in charge. Girls like to grind their clit. So cowgirl tends to be the least satisfying for me (and many guys I think). I'll take making out in mish over just about anything else besides BBBJ.[/QUOTE]Haha! I can't agree more with Steve. I enjoy cowgirl initially. It's great if she has some nice breasts that you can cup. If the girl has a nice ass, reverse is a good view. However, the girl generally start to degenerate into a grinding motion that ain't doing much for little Wyatt other than keeping him warm. That's kind of when after a bit of grinding I say "okay let's try this position".

As a side note, Steve and others can relate to the spectacular view of a Brazilian girl in reverse cowgirl. Tan lines make it even more amazing. Since generally the Brazilian girls I have been with are WGs, they have a certain sexual athleticism. They can stay up on their legs in cowgirl thrusting longer than most women. I remember a Rio spark plug that draped my legs around a bottom corner of the mattress so my feet were on the floor. Then she had me lie back and she mounted with her feet on the floor. She then sprung up and down using the floor for leverage. The girl was 19 and she was demonstrating a modified reverse cowgirl to me. LOL.

[QUOTE=TjBrazil;2589657]A few things. If a girl is making 100 k as a nurse, SA could be a dangerous side hobby to make an extra 10 k. People are killed on tinder Craigslist and I'm assuming SA. It just doesn't make sense to me. 100 k is a lot in pretty much any city unless you're a complete nut with money like Mike Tyson. Why can't the girl have sex with a doctor or someone else that isn't on SA.

Your other point about the gifts being used as cover for illegal prostitution. There has to be Something to it from the owner of SA perspective. There are a lot of dumb johns that are still getting arrested on the street and with online stings when they mention sex for money. Sure paying a escort for her time is legal, but I don't think a lot of men in America got the message, or stings would never produce any arrests. Also I imagine the moderators are constantly flagging and deleting accounts of people that talk about sex for money. Adding the gifts section allows more profits and for even the dumbest johns to stay out of trouble.[/QUOTE]You make reasonable points, but I still think you bring a lower-end of the scene mentality into it that doesn't always apply.

I repeat a lot with the USA Escorts I see, and many of them started doing this in college and continue to see regulars until they are too old, or have a major life change. I had one tell me and all her regulars that she was leaving the business on a certain date, like June 27, and she replied LOL when I wished her a joyous wedding on June 28. Now granted many of them take down active escort ads and continue to communicate with regulars via email and text.

I simply assumed that SA is used as a powerful tool for relatively wealthier women who like money, gifts and sex to get the occasional bit of extra. I have met many men earning 100 K who simply didn't care about any more than that. I have never met a woman like that. There is always shopping to do. I always stayed at a hotel compensated for by business in Chicago near the magnificent mile. My favorite escort in Chicago would always show up with shopping bags because she said she looked forward to seeing me because it was her favorite neighborhood. She was going to college in Chicago and her parents were college professors in Europe. She needed the money, but she didn't absolutely need the money. I loved her. After I came once in her mouth, she just kept doing a light BBBJ for the next 15 or 20 minutes until I was hard again for covered full service. I never met another girl who could do that successfully. I think she returned to her home country of Greece.

And wealthier women are pretty good about not getting killed. I am sure the rich on SA want dinner at a really nice restaurant first. I doubt that the psycho stalking killer could fake it long enough to convince her to go to a seedy area with him afterward. And he would probably stab himself when he got the dinner bill.

I think that getting "outed" is pretty unlikely. Women go to dinners and hotel convention meeting all the time, even in their hometowns. It isn't the Middle East where they need male chaperones. And street busts and mass classified ad solicitation arrests really have little to do with a Seeking Arrangement or independent escorting with screening. There are Two Americas, and a lot of ISG want to connect them, even though they aren't really connected.

Belgium / NL / Germany border area.

[QUOTE=BlueSwede;2589679]Where in Europe is this?

I myself, am living in Sweden. I have SBs in Gothenburg as well as Stockholm, I meet on a regular basis.

I have, when travelling in Europe, met girls in Athens, Berlin, Madrid so far.[/QUOTE]

I have tried 5 email addresses, cleared cookies, turned off vpn but still get account suspension when trying to signup. Support want a photo or passport copy to open an account. Any ideas?

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2589809]
I think that getting "outed" is pretty unlikely. Women go to dinners and hotel convention meeting all the time, even in their hometowns. [/QUOTE]I saw this article a few weeks ago, made the news here in Au.

A bitter divorce between a top New York City spine surgeon and his beauty-queen wife was quickly settled Monday — after he filed court papers making tawdry accusations that she was moonlighting as a high-priced call girl.

[URL]https://nypost.com/2021/07/26/nyc-surgeon-beauty-queen-wife-settle-divorce-amid-hooker-allegations/[/URL].

[QUOTE=Rosebud1;2590152]I have tried 5 email addresses, cleared cookies, turned off vpn but still get account suspension when trying to signup. Support want a photo or passport copy to open an account. Any ideas?[/QUOTE]Have you been a bad boy?

Maybe go to a cafe and use the free wifi. Use a different browser on your laptop or sign up on your phone.

What picture are you using? If it's anything from Facebook it won't work if you are trying to hide. I think they scan facebook, pics and compare to the pic you use. Suggest signing up without a pic or find an online fake pic to get started.

It's also no problems to send them your ID. You are legit right?

[QUOTE=BrizLad;2590436]I saw this article a few weeks ago, made the news here in Au.

A bitter divorce between a top New York City spine surgeon and his beauty-queen wife was quickly settled Monday after he filed court papers making tawdry accusations that she was moonlighting as a high-priced call girl.

[URL]https://nypost.com/2021/07/26/nyc-surgeon-beauty-queen-wife-settle-divorce-amid-hooker-allegations/[/URL].[/QUOTE]Wow, she is hot and well within my type, well, one of my types. Entertaining read. I feel sorry for the guy, but OTOH, if you are financially and professionally successful and just want to marry a super hottie, then why get married at all? Anyway, none of my business.

This gal reminds me of one of my core beliefs when it comes to exes. Once you have had sex with someone, it is easy to have sex with that person again, even years later, or, even after she is later married, or, even if she's an ex-WG and has gone legit. I recently had sex with a ex-WG who is now engaged. In her mind, she is not cheating since she has already had sex with me about two dozen times. I bet for this girl in the NY Post story, most of the johns that she met after she got married were regular clients from before she got married. She probably did not think she was doing anything wrong toward her husband.

[URL]https://people.com/sports/olympic-runner-suzy-favor-hamilton-describes-working-as-a-las-vegas-call-girl/[/URL]

You guys in your 50's will remember her. Suzie Favor Hamilton. Some gals hook for the thrills.

[QUOTE=BrizLad;2590436]I saw this article a few weeks ago, made the news here in Au.

A bitter divorce between a top New York City spine surgeon and his beauty-queen wife was quickly settled Monday after he filed court papers making tawdry accusations that she was moonlighting as a high-priced call girl.

[URL]https://nypost.com/2021/07/26/nyc-surgeon-beauty-queen-wife-settle-divorce-amid-hooker-allegations/[/URL].[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2590916][URL]https://people.com/sports/olympic-runner-suzy-favor-hamilton-describes-working-as-a-las-vegas-call-girl/[/URL]

You guys in your 50's will remember her. Suzie Favor Hamilton. Some gals hook for the thrills.[/QUOTE]Yes, great examples by both of you guys. And there was of course the small town Maine Zumba Instructor, who had an incredible work ethic, and taught the women Zumba in the morning, fucked the guys in the afternoon and evening, and did most excellent pornography (alternating a popsicle between her vagina and mouth in one of the most highly rated ones) when not fucking the guys. All while being a single mom. Her downfall was only reporting her meager Zumba instructor income when getting public assistance.

[URL]https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2013/02/zumba-alexis-wright-prostitution[/URL]

That all having been said, these cases were of interest to the media (which often opens the investigation by reporting on it before the police are involved, and with Suzy the police never got involved ever). You had an Olympic athlete, a former Miss America contestant, and the ultimate The Whole Town Knew lady. And it's like discussing an airplane crash. You get the impression that there are a lot of airplane crashes if you focus on them. There aren't, compared to the total number of flights.

I still argue that for a typical female nurse or engineer or computer programmer, etc, she can fuck for money, even if married, without getting the interest of the media or law enforcement.

The one example of licensing boards taking an interest in this form of moonlighting is, ironically, lawyers.

[URL]https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2013-06-02-ct-met-lawyer-prostitution-20130602-story.html[/URL]

Slight pat on the back for reading my girl and having my options open. So I learned the hard way with Valentina to read my girl. Even tho I felt like she dumped me out of the blue when I go back thru it in my mind there was a point where she got distant like I don't really have time to text you all the time. That kinda thing. I'm sure that's when she got her new SD and prepared to use me and break my heart.

Anyhow long way of saying live and learn. I was flying Mika to a major city again to reprise our fun together. But she was seeming distant not her responsive and bubbly self. So I asked her about it and she said she had some problems and trouble getting off work. Rather than moping I quickly cut her loose and said we'll do it another time.

Quickly hooked up Michelle as the sure thing and she's thrilled but then quickly picked up another SA hottie for a different night. So I've got the sure (but slightly boring?) thing and the super hot wild card. Feeling good about having the girl radar thanks to the school of hard knocks and having the Rolodex and game to fill the void. Excited.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2589276]I signed up on SA a few months ago but there were many who were obviously escorts. While I chatted up a few good ones, due to personal circumstances (plus annoyed by the escorts), I went off of it. I'm back on now. Chatted with over 40 profiles and weeded down to 4 leads. (10% hit rate; will be weeded down further).

Of the 4 leads worth pursuing, one is a 34 year old Pics looks like a 8; Single mom but just looking for some fun. Another is a 33 year old She was apparently in a serious relationship but broke up about a year ago. She just wants to have a 'man' occasionally. She has even shared her personal name, work place, phone number with me. Meeting her for a first M&G next weekend. Looking forward to it (but a bit wary that this one is coming off of a relationship. Let's see how it goes). Both these don't seem to be expecting anything in return other than taking them out for dinners / weekend getaways but will know more when I do M&G.

On the other end of spectrum, there are a couple of 20/22 y. o claiming to be students. Of course, I will screen them and test if they are really students but they keep directing to conversations around "gifts", "pamper me", "take care of me, I will take care of you" kind of things. Seems to be a significant difference in approach between the two demography.

I'm gradually getting back into the scene and I'm going to try both ends of the spectrum. Will circle back with detailed reports when things happen. I'm taking things slow and easy.

All said and done. I owe it to this forum and guidance from y'll veterans. Your tips / suggestions are much appreciated. Happy to contribute back to the forum.[/QUOTE]Just read your post that it's partially NL. Sounds familiar to me.

I got lucky finding one that wasn't into it for the money. She wanted to explore her sexuality.

For the Netherlands it can be hard because the majority I talked with didn't want the money and sex on the same day. That stigma of being seen as a hooker.

Then there are the ones that know sex is part of the deal. But ask crazy prices / allowances for dutch standards.

Forgot, also had one that was hesitant at first but she had the assets I liked so I took a risk. Made the investment 150 just for talk during dinner. She felt comfortable after an we made a PPM deal. After a few meets she started talking about getting an allowance or looking for more PPM.

Apparently she talked to a friend who said she got more from her SD. Contact was broken off.

I believe there are a few gems out there in NL but I had better experiences with SB from other countries.

[QUOTE=Oneminuteboy;2591406]Just read your post that it's partially NL. Sounds familiar to me.

I got lucky finding one that wasn't into it for the money. She wanted to explore her sexuality.

For the Netherlands it can be hard because the majority I talked with didn't want the money and sex on the same day. That stigma of being seen as a hooker.

Then there are the ones that know sex is part of the deal. But ask crazy prices / allowances for dutch standards.

Forgot, also had one that was hesitant at first but she had the assets I liked so I took a risk. Made the investment 150 just for talk during dinner. She felt comfortable after an we made a PPM deal. After a few meets she started talking about getting an allowance or looking for more PPM.[/QUOTE]If you are meeting these girls on SA or some other sugar babe site, regardless of where they are located, they already expect some sugar, don't they? Why else are they on the site?

Perhaps what you are saying is that they want the sugar from you but don't give out sugar back to you?

If they don't like cold cash, can always do gifts. Or say, a portion of her monthly rent (depends on where you are; in my US home city. Not on the coasts. Rents for 1 bedroom apartment are not that high; it is actually a very good deal if a girl would let you fuck her once or twice a week for a month's rent); or you can offer other goodies in exchange for her sugar.

In fact, that is the type of arrangement SA likes best. Makes it look less transactional.

I can understand prices are high in ND. It is a rich country, mostly urban, and women make good money. That is akin to the situation in the coastal cities in the US. Prices are high, selection of women is less than optimal (for me, anyway during my travels). The best cities for me are those in the half a million to a couple of million population cities in the flyover country. People are not so rich, plenty of women in economic distress and agreeable to good deals.

Just wanted to add my two cents to the cowgirl discussion. If she grinds forwards and backwards, instead of going up and down, then that is my favorite position.

If you guys are in your mid or late 50's and older, then you might remember that cowgirl used to be considered a sissy position about three decades ago, 1980's, because it was like letting the girl fuck us instead of the other way around. I was kinda in that camp too, until I met this super hot blonde pyscho with huge natural tits. She used to ride me cowgirl so hard, as if my dick was not enough for her. She would grind so hard, trying to get as much dick as possible inside of her, that the next day, the bone above my dick was bruised and very sore. Because of her, I have been searching for girls that can replicate that. I tried teaching it to many girls, but no one can do it the way she did it.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2591661]Just wanted to add my two cents to the cowgirl discussion. If she grinds forwards and backwards, instead of going up and down, then that is my favorite position.

If you guys are in your mid or late 50's and older, then you might remember that cowgirl used to be considered a sissy position about three decades ago, 1980's, because it was like letting the girl fuck us instead of the other way around. I was kinda in that camp too, until I met this super hot blonde pyscho with huge natural tits. She used to ride me cowgirl so hard, as if my dick was not enough for her. She would grind so hard, trying to get as much dick as possible inside of her, that the next day, the bone above my dick was bruised and very sore. Because of her, I have been searching for girls that can replicate that. I tried teaching it to many girls, but no one can do it the way she did it.[/QUOTE]You are quite correct. It was just a position to show penetration. Funny how that was sexy. I don't like that position because they rarely get the angle correct and it is hard to keep that strong erection. The girl is supposed to pivot her hips. Bouncing is a recipe for disaster. If she wants it hard, I can dish it out in missionary while they dream. I have encountered a few sex crazy girls. Tough to satisfy and their lives are always a mess. But there are an endless supply of guys to solve problems.