German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2284576]Muzein Wallah! I feel it in my liver, Sayyid Chongmal. She went out of her way to insult you. It is this kind of attitude that keeps me away from Europe. Although in Brazil there are no FKKs, it is quite normal to meet a girl in a sex club and carry on dating her outside. None of this phony superiority from the chicks.

In general I think sex is a great way to start a relationship. Any red flags, any hint of selfishness, any major incompatibility, you will see it right there -- before committing too much. (Although this did not work for you Chongmal: you put in a lot of cash before the mask came off!)[/QUOTE]I wasn't trying to start a relationship, I was pay g a lady for sex. I got exactly what I wanted from her, sex acts purchased in 30 minute blocks. That day on the street I was simply being courteous to someone I recognized. I was surprised by her reaction. I'm not a 25 year old Adonis, or even a 55 year old Adonis. I'm not a super Mr Lover Lover like some men here claim to be. I'm a short, slightly overweight, balding male in my 50's. The women's only attraction to me is my wallet, cleanliness and personality. I know my personality gets distorted by the thickness of my wallet. I do realize these women are only mine when I'm paying for their company or figuratively when expressing my fondness for her, as in "she is my favorite lady at the moment" and if my favorite is reading this she knows who she is.

As for the lady I saw on the street, we didn't see much of each other after that day. I still think about her occasionally but don't think I would know her if I saw her in the club today. She has been replace several time and I'm OK with that.

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2283964]This hobby is fun, but it needs to be also kept in a sandbox and seen in context of being quite an artificial set up: where else do have dozens of half or fully naked beautiful women constantly propositioning you? It reverses everything.[/QUOTE]Well, only in today's societal context is this true. Change certain basic criteria, and you can have a paradigm change. It won't be exactly like in an FKK, but the world outside of the sandbox can move towards it. Future technology can be the cause of such paradigm changes. Politics another. And most likely we have slowly started changing the paradigm already. But it seems to take time. It changes faster in some countries than others (rate of religious population). And there can be different stages on the paradigm change that makes one whole paradigm change seem like several paradigm changes. While in reality one leads naturally to the other. Capitalism can even correlate to one such thing.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2284236]I find some of this this talk about free thinking and paradigm shifts a bit ironic. For sure the common paradigm is that hookers are just hookers who are after your money and nothing more. While this is the case more often than not, a real free thinker would realize that this is not always the case. Real free thinkers would realize that working girls come in all varieties and that some are able to manage friendships and relationships throughout the entire clientele to personal relationship spectrum. If this were not the case then there would not be cases where working girls have quit the job to be with a former client. If WGs in clubs were just WGs, then these messages from WGs that I have never sessioned with must be a figment of my imagination.

A true free thinker would realize that such things are fluid. A true free thinker would realize that his own limitations often creates his reality because he cannot see over the horizon. A true free thinker would give the WG a chance to be a WG as well as a real human being.

P.S. I hate that these debates have made me write such liberal, love-the-world explanations that should really just be common sense and common decency.[/QUOTE]The definition of a working girl or a hooker is just that. A definition. Framed negatively, for a certain purpose. We can all instead create our own word for it instead if we want, but by even thinking in terms of hookers and working girls, one gives the power over to the persons who pursues the same negative framing as the coiner of the terms. The historical biological context to it would be that taking resources in trade for sex is the natural way. So there shouldn't be the need for any framing of any term for it at all. Neither positively nor negatively. It should speak for itself.

If we want to get nerdy on framing here. Look up 'action framing' in this article:

[URL]http://comphacker.org/comp/engl338/files/2012/08/framing-and-public-relations.pdf[/URL]

Common sense is also fluid. And this common sense fluidity is at the core of what a paradigm change really is.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2284329]FKK is merely a type of brothel, nothing more, nothing less. As good as FKK is, it merely place where you get your lust taken care of and brothel is not a place to communicate deeply with prostitutes, it is bit like going to restaurants or hospital or where-ever and expect waitress or nurse to take care of you more further than they are occupationally expected to do.

It is surprising that some mongers seek to communicate or practice social skill in FKK, but it is asking for wrong thing in wrong place or asking too much going beyond what prostitutes are expected to do, then I realize how crazy it has become for human society where some seek for such relation in brothel. Prostitutes has their own private lives too that they want to protect and that is why they are tuting, so I think it is polite to stay out of private lives of prostitutes.[/QUOTE]I think a problem here is that most girls who make money in these FKK's are on a different mindset than most men are. And they don't really think of it as more than an ATM. There is therefore a problem with the feng shui at the FKK's. And this can cause most of the issues you have pointed at in your posts. Too bad for them really, since I deffinately believe that if the girls in general had been smarter about this, then there would be far more repeating customers. Both for the clubs and for the girls.

[QUOTE=CaneUppHosAss;2284679]If I could change something, I would have more girls smile and say Hi in the club as we keep bumping into each other in such a small space. Not because I feel I am entitled to it inside the club but it is simple manners and good customer service. The good ones do, the lousy service providers don't.
[/QUOTE]While I deffinately agree with you, I do see why girls can get tired of this constant greeting. Even I as a guy after just a few days in a row in FKK's start getting tired of smiling and greeting so many girls around every corner in an FKK. And a few girls have over the years even called me rude for looking through them as ether too. Maybe I am lucky, but in this closed off polygamous box the clubs are, greetings must be some of the hardest parts. Especially with all the sales impulses going on. Women does seem to be better at such multitasking than guys are, but still I bet it can make them loose focus sometimes.

[QUOTE=CaneUppHosAss;2284679]Keep in mind, many girls do not even say Hi or smile back inside the club an hour after you had just fucked her. They walk by and look through you as if you are ether.

If I could change something, I would have more girls smile and say Hi in the club as we keep bumping into each other in such a small space. Not because I feel I am entitled to it inside the club but it is simple manners and good customer service. The good ones do, the lousy service providers don't.[/QUOTE]Then no need they return to me. I also judge girls behavior, not only for introducing social time or in bed, but how they behave after I pay, most are smiling, some with sweet caresses after room. Behavior is more interesting for me than sexual performances.

Nice points everybody. Yes it is a business relationship, but it is one where there is a direct personal interchange, and it is very easy, if both sides allow it to happen, for a personal relationship to develop. The range and depth will vary enormously but is almost inevitable if one repeats several times with any girl. Because it is business based, the girl, as Takedown says, gives the man much more of a chance than is likely in her non-business life where peer group and social norms pressures mean she would only meet with men of similar age and nationality and culture. In clubs ths girls get money, worship, and meet interesting men (as well as the opposite).

But as Nick says, once human relationships develop, the situation gets much more complicated and as Mr Ho implies, illusions can be mistaken for reality.

As Takedown says, we need to accept that the WG can choose to be seen just as a WG or as a human being. Like in any walk of life. Common decency and common sense.

Nice points everybody. Yes it is a business relationship, but it is one where there is a direct personal interchange, and it is very easy, if both sides allow it to happen, for a personal relationship to develop. The range and depth will vary enormously but is almost inevitable if one repeats several times with any girl. Because it is business based, the girl, as Bfsie says, gives the man much more of a chance than is likely in her non-business life where peer group and social norms pressures mean she would only meet with men of similar age and nationality and culture. In clubs the girls get money, worship, and meet interesting men (as well as the opposite).

But as Nick says, once human relationships develop, the situation gets much more complicated and as Mr Ho implies, illusions can be mistaken for reality.

As Takedown says, we need to accept that the WG can choose to be seen just as a WG or as a human being. Like in any walk of life. Common decency and common sense.

Thanks for the level headed post Optimist, as always.

Found out something today from a WG. Apparently a brand new club will be opening in the Dutch-German border town of Emmerich. Best part is the name, Golden Day. I have no idea if related to GT but I'm sure they are looking to siphon off some of that Dutch business. For now, it will be a 30 euro entry club.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2284754]While I deffinately agree with you, I do see why girls can get tired of this constant greeting. Even I as a guy after just a few days in a row in FKK's start getting tired of smiling and greeting so many girls around every corner in an FKK. And a few girls have over the years even called me rude for looking through them as ether too. Maybe I am lucky, but in this closed off polygamous box the clubs are, greetings must be some of the hardest parts. Especially with all the sales impulses going on. Women does seem to be better at such multitasking than guys are, but still I bet it can make them loose focus sometimes.[/QUOTE]Hello Sir,

Yes, an unending sequence of acknowledge and greets can be tedious and weigh you down but a simple smile should be easy enough-- one hopes.

If we are bumping into each 10 times in 5 minutes, it is not required to say and do much every time but if it happens a couple of times a day, a simple flash of smile will not hurt.

In any case, my thought is that those are things a monger can reasonably expect inside a club but outside the club our mutual privacy must be paramount unless there is some other understanding between the two parties involved.

My 2 cents.

Thank you.

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2284710]You make a good point about the girls covering their faces. I always have a question for the girls who send 1 k per month home, who take 3 months a year off work and spend it back home, who buy a beautiful new house with cash, who have small children that stay in their home country with their grandparents, and who say there families don't know what they do for work. Do you really think what you do is a secret from your parents. Do you think your parents believe a waitress, bar tender, hotel maid, etc makes 10 k per month in Germany? I tell them it's not a secret it's denial. The secret is that their parents are o with them working as a prostitute as long as they are providing for their families back home.

Some ladies are super protective of their real identities. Others, after a couple meetings will share a look inside their life with you. I personally take it with a grain of salt because the one thing I've learned via this hobby, some of the greatest illusionists in the world work in Sauna Clubs as prostitutes.[/QUOTE]Hello Sir,

American Psychology Association talks about power of pretending. Several researchers have done work on this topic. Dr Paul Harris wrote a book called work of imagination. He discusses this in the context of children and role play, role play vs pretending but essentially while even a 3 year old may not have any understanding of theory of mind, the child is able to use role play to predict the actions and reactions and thought processes of others. I think this concept can probably be extended to the situation you described which is that the role play that happens between a working girl and her family in Romania and pretending to not know.

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2284710]You make a good point about the girls covering their faces. I always have a question for the girls who send 1 k per month home, who take 3 months a year off work and spend it back home, who buy a beautiful new house with cash, who have small children that stay in their home country with their grandparents, and who say there families don't know what they do for work. Do you really think what you do is a secret from your parents. Do you think your parents believe a waitress, bar tender, hotel maid, etc makes 10 k per month in Germany? I tell them it's not a secret it's denial. The secret is that their parents are o with them working as a prostitute as long as they are providing for their families back home.

Some ladies are super protective of their real identities. Others, after a couple meetings will share a look inside their life with you. I personally take it with a grain of salt because the one thing I've learned via this hobby, some of the greatest illusionists in the world work in Sauna Clubs as prostitutes.[/QUOTE]For sure, Romanian families prefer to play blind, enjoying the fast money. Which other job could make so much fast money? Modeling? But not many FKK girls are model look.

Thanks to all for their great posts.

This summer I have two weeks of free time and I thought it would be fun to tour Germany and Switzerland just to visit FKK clubs.

Having been to several clubs in Berlin and Stuttgart I enjoyed the experience but am curious about the large clubs.

Any suggestions are welcome and I plan to travel between cities by train.

Thanks again.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2284941]Thanks for the level headed post Optimist, as always.

Found out something today from a WG. Apparently a brand new club will be opening in the Dutch-German border town of Emmerich. Best part is the name, Golden Day. I have no idea if related to GT but I'm sure they are looking to siphon off some of that Dutch business. For now, it will be a 30 euro entry club.[/QUOTE]Interesting. The Dutch have up till now found it hard to set up thriving clubs (resulting I believe to the way that they are taxed, which discriminates against establishments with many girls: I expect other members know the detail). If this club can get started then of course it will not be subject to the July 2017 German laws, which will give an edge over the German clubs.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2285045]Interesting. The Dutch have up till now found it hard to set up thriving clubs (resulting I believe to the way that they are taxed, which discriminates against establishments with many girls: I expect other members know the detail). If this club can get started then of course it will not be subject to the July 2017 German laws, which will give an edge over the German clubs.[/QUOTE]There have been clubs in Emmerich before (Fun Garden, Lekker Ding), but they always struggle. Schuttdorf is near the border as well and Golden Dreams always struggled to get decent line ups, until they left. Just 20 miles down the A3 from Emmerich you have SC Venus and Gallardo (previously Marisol), all of which struggle to get anything going that resembles the bigger clubs (although Venus can be nice for a few hours). Simply put, (I think) that far north there aren't enough people to make clubs with many girls successful. Neither in Germany nor in the Netherlands. If you are travelling from the bigger Ducth cities (Amsterdam, Utrecht, Rotterdam), you'll be on the road for a while anyway and the difference between Bruggen and Emmerich won't matter. Believe me, I do this a few times each month and normally I breeze past Emmerich and Hamminkeln towards clubs I want to visit. Or I cross the border at Venlo (smack in between Yin Yang and Golden Time).

It is trite to say WG are humans with a wide spectrum of fluidly changing interests. Common sense for sure. However, most women do not naturally spread their legs for cash several times in an evening with random guys. This centers around their desire for money and the male urge to hump pretty things. Some girls blow the cash on BS as fast as they make it. Others save. Some support their families that are poor. It is easy to forget that large parts of Europe are very poor and quite isolated. For girls there, marriage and children is the only real path. The big cities beckon with excitement and money and a bit of adventure. It is easy to see the attraction. Young women can be promiscuous and have real biological sexual urges, and WG's tell me that they get used to lots of cock and tend to miss it after a break. Others not.

One could generalize ad infinitum. This is an ancient trade that probably goes back to the start of modern humans over 40,000 years ago. Having said that, the paradigm shift of Piston's has some DNA barriers in the form of behavior and plenty of powerful social and economic vested interests in perpetuating reproduction of economic units for profit, whether by tax or charging money for stuff, or selling data as in the modern economy.

In the meantime, how wonderful is to have clean clubs, safety, a huge range of eye candy you can screw for a relatively modest cost and without complications? It is completely consensual in places like Germany, just good clean fun. The outrage is that men get to have the fun of this platter and women don't as they are not interested in a bar full of men to screw them. They are alive to the fact FKK's and prostitution in general directly competes with their limited time window to snag a man and weakens the availability of commitment to a long term subscription when men can buy ala carte.

It's just how the tension is.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2285045].... then of course it will not be subject to the July 2017 German laws,[/QUOTE]Why will it not be subject to German Law, if it is to be located in Emmerich which is in Germany?

I was asked a couple of times on ISG why most of the FKK WGs are from Romania (while vast majority of the WGs in real German brothels are non-Romanian-and-Bulgarian) and I didn't answer the question at that time due to my respect to FKK fans here. Since we are talking about the rudeness of FKK WGs and I have some time these days, I think that now it is right time to give my view of this question which I think helps understanding difficult work FKK WGs face.

FKK club environment is much more DEGRADING environment for the WGs than the environment of real brothels which I am a frequent customer of. WGs are human beings and they have their dignity too despite their line of work. I often had small talk with the WGs in the brothels about FKK club and almost all of them said that working in FKK club is just too low for them, meaning it is like in meat market and the WGs are treated like animals. They usually also said that 50 euro for half hour is also too low for them and they have to work long hours a day if they work in FKK.

So if FKK WGs are unfriendly or rude, we should understand they have difficult work not only physically, but also mentally and psychologically.

In my opinion since I know Dutch culture a little after many years living in Netherlands, Dutch FKK clubs owned by Dutch will never reach to the same level as German FKK clubs owned by German in terms of WG's service, because Dutch culture is very liberal unlike German culture and Dutch people in general are much more liberal than German people. So if a club is managed by Dutch, the club culture would usually be liberal and the Dutch managers would use hands-off approach to the WG's service and this usually means lousy WG's service.

I have never been to YY and other Dutch FKK clubs, but I am pretty sure that the WG's services in those clubs are not good compared to the equivalent German clubs because of culture difference.

[QUOTE=FreeDude;2285046]There have been clubs in Emmerich before (Fun Garden, Lekker Ding), but they always struggle. Schuttdorf is near the border as well and Golden Dreams always struggled to get decent line ups, until they left. Just 20 miles down the A3 from Emmerich you have SC Venus and Gallardo (previously Marisol), all of which struggle to get anything going that resembles the bigger clubs (although Venus can be nice for a few hours). Simply put, (I think) that far north there aren't enough people to make clubs with many girls successful. Neither in Germany nor in the Netherlands. If you are travelling from the bigger Ducth cities (Amsterdam, Utrecht, Rotterdam), you'll be on the road for a while anyway and the difference between Bruggen and Emmerich won't matter. Believe me, I do this a few times each month and normally I breeze past Emmerich and Hamminkeln towards clubs I want to visit. Or I cross the border at Venlo (smack in between Yin Yang and Golden Time).[/QUOTE]Well hopefully they do it right. 30 euro entry to start helps bring in some locals. They're giving girls 2 months of free entry. With the recent closure of Penelope and soon to be suspension of Yin Yang, perhaps the stars will align for them to recruit some talent. Considering their location, perhaps the best case scenario is GoldenTime if it is German run. The worst case scenario is perhaps Acapulco Velbert.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2285154]
I have never been to YY and other Dutch FKK clubs, but I am pretty sure that the WG's services in those clubs are not good compared to the equivalent German clubs because of culture difference.[/QUOTE]I have been to YY and the service was the same as I received in German FKK's except nobody tried to upsell BBBJ at YY. It was 50 E with BBBJ & DATY!

[QUOTE=Tom525;2285019]Thanks to all for their great posts.

This summer I have two weeks of free time and I thought it would be fun to tour Germany and Switzerland just to visit FKK clubs.

Having been to several clubs in Berlin and Stuttgart I enjoyed the experience but am curious about the large clubs.

Any suggestions are welcome and I plan to travel between cities by train.

Thanks again.[/QUOTE]In Frankfurt you can travel by train close to Sharks, Oase & Mainhatten but you will need a cab to get to the club from the train stop. These clubs have a lot of upsell so expect to pay 100 E for 1/2 HR with BBBJ.

I prefer the somewhat smaller clubs up North in the Cologne area such as Babylon Koln & Samya. 1/2 HR with BBBJ is 50 E for most girls. Further north to Dusseldorf Area I liked Acapulco (40 E girls) & GoldenTime (50 E girls) . On the way to Switzerland I stopped at FKK Sakura in Stuttgart. It was a nice club and girls were 50 E. I never made it to any Swiss clubs yet! It is much better to use a rental car especially up North.

I have heard the exact opposite regarding what is degrading than what Bfsie describes. But I suppose different girls have different views. And also, one shouldn't buy into everything we hear. When it comes to dutch clubs, SixSense would also contradict Bfsie's argument.

Phallus: Never underestimate a paradigm change. And even capitalism changes like an organism. Everything in society does.

I asked a girl once if she kissed her customers. She responded that she did not. She claimed she was there for sex. Not for love. And that kissing would feel degrading to her. Then I pointed out the french greeting culture. Four kisses on the cheeks just to say Hi. But she claimed that was 'cultural'.

'Yeah, exactly' was what I responded. 'But one guy also must first have introduced that kiss greeting. And maybe he received a few slaps on his face before people agreed to it. Now everybody does it. The thing is, if you want something to make you feel bad, you feel bad about it. If you want something to make you feel good, you feel good about it. ' I don't think I have to explain the morals of the story here, but there is a certain link to the enlightenment. Martin Luther etc etc.

After that I saw her sitting by herself thinking about it for what must have been 20 minutes. Beautiful girl. I didn't approach her again. If people let the world around them choose what they are to think or believe in, then let them. We cannot change what people believe in. For this girl, the result was less income. But she was faithful to her beliefs. Considering she also seemed to have chosen this job, then believing parts of what she did was degrading, was probably something she had picked up from other people, or the environment around her. But with a truly liberal mindset she would think for herself. But as mentioned in my last post, and Takedown hinted at also, framed words such as 'w. Ore', and 'ho. Oker' have been brought out into public discourse for a purpose by certain interest groups in order to program non liberal individuals. And this is why religious people are having the hardest time also accepting the trade of sex for money. Since they have already once given up their free mind to the idea that there is something out there that is beyond human capabilities and know how. And that we should listen to the hierarchy and leaders of current belief systems. And as the story goes, all the cultist brainwashing moves onwards with rituals, ceremonies, celebrations and holy books of morals without reasoning. Ad infinitum.

The main paradigm change which has barely started, and hardly many, if even any world leaders get a slight graps of the boundaries of today, is the information age. And the internet in particular. Eventually it will make the enlightenment turn into a baby step of a mouse.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2283015]For me, it is not jealousy, but at the beginning of mongering life, I did have this feeling that wow how does such girl like this good end up in prostitution industry? This feeling I still have when I meet really beautiful girl both inside and out, but I never let me have illusion of any kind because in the end, we are in brothel world where GFE experience and sex are given in exchange for money we pay.[/QUOTE]I always have this question to my self when I meet a really beautiful girl inside and out and I see her opening wide her legs for every dirty monger. We men tend to confuse the outside look with what is inside. We think that just because she is nice and beautiful she should do a 'better' job, we feel shame for her.

This is not always good because sometimes we want to 'help' her get out of this shit.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2285154] ... Dutch FKK clubs owned by Dutch will never reach to the same level as German FKK clubs owned by German in terms of WG's service....[/QUOTE]I should re-write above: ... Dutch FKK clubs owned by Dutchs on average will never reach to the same level as German FKK clubs owned by ETHNIC Germans in terms of WG's service...

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2285154]

I have never been to YY and other Dutch FKK clubs, but I am pretty sure that the WG's services in those clubs are not good compared to the equivalent German clubs because of culture difference [/QUOTE]I should re-write above: I have never been to YY and other Dutch FKK clubs, but I am pretty sure that the WG's services in those clubs on average are not good compared to the equivalent German clubs owned by ethnic Germans because of culture difference. I can’t imagine any Dutch club provides the same (or better) quality of WG’s service as GT or Babylon for example.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2285221]I should re-write above: ... Dutch FKK clubs owned by Dutchs on average will never reach to the same level as German FKK clubs owned by ETHNIC Germans in terms of WG's service...[/QUOTE]I never noticed a gap in service at either Sixsens or Yin Yang compared to any German club. Any gap was in LU.

[QUOTE=XXL;2285227]I never noticed a gap in service at either Sixsens or Yin Yang compared to any German club. Any gap was in LU.[/QUOTE]I said compared to the German clubs owned by ETHNIC Germans. Is there no difference between GT or Babylon and YY or Sixtens? Yes, if you compare them with German clubs owned by Turkish Germans, yes, there is no difference.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2285230]I said compared to the German clubs owned by ETHNIC Germans. Is there no difference between GT or Babylon and YY or Sixtens? Yes, if you compare them with German clubs owned by Turkish Germans, yes, there is no difference.[/QUOTE]Before making such a drastic assumption, a good idea for you next time might be to visit SixSense.

I do agree to a small extent with you regarding the long hours girls in FKK's work however. The entry fee's they pay are the problem though. But it is not the customers fault. It is partly the fault of the clubs, and partly the fault of the regulators who state that girls are not allowed to work for a club. So they basically have to pay entry fees. However, it is an unsocial problem hitting less popular girls harder than the more popular ones. Again a problem caused mainly by the regulators who claim they are so wise and just.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2285230]I said compared to the German clubs owned by ETHNIC Germans. Is there no difference between GT or Babylon and YY or Sixtens? Yes, if you compare them with German clubs owned by Turkish Germans, yes, there is no difference.[/QUOTE]I see your point regarding German management but also important is having a large contingent of ethnic German clientele. They seem to keep the standards high and spending expectation from girls low. However the problem with German owned clubs is that with the exception of GT, optic levels are usually lower compared to other clubs. Clubs like Babylon, Finca, LR generally keep a smaller line up with unspectacular optics.

[QUOTE=TankTank123;2285082]Why will it not be subject to German Law, if it is to be located in Emmerich which is in Germany?[/QUOTE]Ok. Stupid me. I was thinking it was just across the border in Netherlands. Apologies everybody for my stupid post. I am suffering from the Great British disease of believing that everything in mainland Europe will be as we want it to be, regardless of reality.

At least Free Dude wrote a sensible post

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2284720]I wasn't trying to start a relationship, I was pay g a lady for sex. I got exactly what I wanted from her, sex acts purchased in 30 minute blocks. That day on the street I was simply being courteous to someone I recognized.[/QUOTE]You are in denial.

"Pain is a treasure, for it contains mercies. " -- Rumi.

"Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding. " -- Khalil Gibran.

"Fuck the pain away! Fuck the pain away!" -- The Teaches of Peaches.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2285152]I often had small talk with the WGs in the brothels about FKK club and almost all of them said that working in FKK club is just too low for them, meaning it is like in meat market and the WGs are treated like animals. They usually also said that 50 euro for half hour is also too low for them and they have to work long hours a day if they work in FKK.[/QUOTE]When I visit Germany I always choose the FKK's, have I been missing out on better service? But how much would it cost?

I think another problem I would have is that I like the atmosphere of the FKK where there's the ideal of spending a day at a "spa" with lots of girls, it's more an experience whereas a brothel visit sounds more like choosing a girl from a very small selection, do the deed and leave.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2285353]You are in denial.

"Pain is a treasure, for it contains mercies. " -- Rumi.

"Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding. " -- Khalil Gibran.

"Fuck the pain away! Fuck the pain away!" -- The Teaches of Peaches.[/QUOTE]Some people do come from cultures where casual courtesy and friendliness are prioritized. Obviously not all people value friendly salutations as a way to maintain pleasant interactions.

As for the WG not wanting to be recognized in public, one must respect this. Telling you not to speak with her outside of the club, well, I suppose she should explain in a friendly way why she does not want this instead of such an angry and insulting manner.

My dear German FKK lounge buddies. I recall quite some talk about German FKK vs Globe. And of course beyond Globe prices there is Aphrodisia in downtown Zurich at a heartstopping 240€/ half hour.

I have sampled 2 girls at Aphrodisia and 3 at Globe and will be dropping posts in the Zurich and Globe forums over the next couple days. Aphrodisia already posted and two Globe girls. Kate and some comparisons and summary still to come.

Hope this is helpful to you.

P.S. Often there is discussion about girl names and does it help or not. I can say surely it does. I was able to grab Tina based on Marelobo Max's recommendation and I went with Kate, even tho too slim for me, based on Forum raves and she instantly vaulted into my top 5 all time! So YES the names are very helpful!

[QUOTE=Pistons;2285210]I have heard the exact opposite regarding what is degrading than what Bfsie describes. But I suppose different girls have different views. And also, one shouldn't buy into everything we hear. When it comes to dutch clubs, SixSense would also contradict Bfsie's argument.[/QUOTE]Paradigm changes happen slowly and organically, not abruptly through forcing abstract concepts that are irrelevant to the practical time frame. More often then not, they are too abstract and if abstract change is forced prematurely, it becomes disruptive to the ecosystem and in the end just fucks up the present.

Theory without practicality is a cousin to extremist ideology.

[QUOTE=Downandup;2285354]When I visit Germany I always choose the FKK's, have I been missing out on better service? But how much would it cost?

I think another problem I would have is that I like the atmosphere of the FKK where there's the ideal of spending a day at a "spa" with lots of girls, it's more an experience whereas a brothel visit sounds more like choosing a girl from a very small selection, do the deed and leave.[/QUOTE]I mix and match but think FKK is far superior on average than doing incalls, for all the reasons you say. Incalls can be as low as 50 for 30 minutes, but can easily be 100 for 30 minutes. I have had some superb incalls but they were usually recommendations.

As for what the girls say, I take it with a huge pinch of salt. They will tend to argue that the job they are doing is better than the one they are not doing, after all, who is going to say "I made a crap choice". FKK girls who have worked in apartments often say they hate it because they are confined to a small space all day, there is little interaction, and they don't know what horrors the next client will bring. Apartment girls who like apartment work will say they like being able to relax and have mainly regular customers.

Hope that helps.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2285385]I mix and match but think FKK is far superior on average than doing incalls, for all the reasons you say. Incalls can be as low as 50 for 30 minutes, but can easily be 100 for 30 minutes. I have had some superb incalls but they were usually recommendations.

As for what the girls say, I take it with a huge pinch of salt. They will tend to argue that the job they are doing is better than the one they are not doing, after all, who is going to say "I made a crap choice". FKK girls who have worked in apartments often say they hate it because they are confined to a small space all day, there is little interaction, and they don't know what horrors the next client will bring. Apartment girls who like apartment work will say they like being able to relax and have mainly regular customers.

Hope that helps.[/QUOTE]Girls pick what suits them best. In Zurich Girls at Aphrodisia have bad things to say about Globe (too many rules) and why they don't work there. And when you talk about Aphrodisia, Globe girls have their reasons for not liking it whether real or imagined (I don't like waiting to be picked. They do a lot of drugs there (We all pick our job based on what we perceive to be optimal. Same for WGs.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2285376]My dear German FKK lounge buddies. I recall quite some talk about German FKK vs Globe. And of course beyond Globe prices there is Aphrodisia in downtown Zurich at a heartstopping 240/ half hour.

I have sampled 2 girls at Aphrodisia and 3 at Globe and will be dropping posts in the Zurich and Globe forums over the next couple days. Aphrodisia already posted and two Globe girls. Kate and some comparisons and summary still to come.

Hope this is helpful to you.

P.S. Often there is discussion about girl names and does it help or not. I can say surely it does. I was able to grab Tina based on Marelobo Max's recommendation and I went with Kate, even tho too slim for me, based on Forum raves and she instantly vaulted into my top 5 all time! So YES the names are very helpful![/QUOTE]Did you pay in € at Aphrodisia? 240 € for 280 CHF? If so, interesting change. How much € for 45 mn 380 CHF?

Kate worked for years around Frankfurt, before Globe. Many girls at Globe or Aphrodisia worked before in Germany or Austria, and improved in Switzerland where money talk. Best business for girls is at Globe, but not all girls are able to succeed there, when some sweet girls like Megan or Tina succeed at Globe, adapting to rules.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2285154]In my opinion since I know Dutch culture a little after many years living in Netherlands, Dutch FKK clubs owned by Dutch will never reach to the same level as German FKK clubs owned by German in terms of WG's service, because Dutch culture is very liberal unlike German culture and Dutch people in general are much more liberal than German people. So if a club is managed by Dutch, the club culture would usually be liberal and the Dutch managers would use hands-off approach to the WG's service and this usually means lousy WG's service.

I have never been to YY and other Dutch FKK clubs, but I am pretty sure that the WG's services in those clubs are not good compared to the equivalent German clubs because of culture difference.[/QUOTE]If you visited YY, You would better know, same level or close than GT or LR, and higher level than Hessen, and I don t say about foods or wellness.

Always better to really know. YY close would be a real loss.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2285210]I have heard the exact opposite regarding what is degrading than what Bfsie describes. [/QUOTE]Yeah, what is "degrading"? A word, no more. If enough people say something is degrading then it is degrading I guess. But to the naturists who came up with the term "FKK," the human body was something to be celebrated rather than be ashamed of. And there are many beauties who take joy in exhibiting their strengths.

But the Puritan tradition is furiously opposed to that, and turns everything upside down. It also appeals to vanity, but in the opposite way. Instead of girls being proud of their assets, it tells them they should be proud of *withholding* their assets. A cunning reversal, no? And that is exactly why America is in the state it is today, and why Americans flee to places like Germany to have a good time.

'The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven. ' -- John Milton.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2285396]Did you pay in at Aphrodisia? 240 for 280 CHF? If so, interesting change. How much for 45 mn 380 CHF?

Kate worked for years around Frankfurt, before Globe. Many girls at Globe or Aphrodisia worked before in Germany or Austria, and improved in Switzerland where money talk. Best business for girls is at Globe, but not all girls are able to succeed there, when some sweet girls like Megan or Tina succeed at Globe, adapting to rules.[/QUOTE]No. I paid in francs — 280/30. 380/45.

I just put it in Euros at more or less current exchange rate. Since I was speaking to a German forum.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2285510]Yeah, what is "degrading"? A word, no more. If enough people say something is degrading then it is degrading I guess. But to the naturists who came up with the term "FKK," the human body was something to be celebrated rather than be ashamed of. And there are many beauties who take joy in exhibiting their strengths.[/QUOTE]Indeed. Some of these people do something called fitness competitions. In a Wellcum video, a girl there named Ruby decribes her job as a type of 'modelling job'.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2285380]Paradigm changes happen slowly and organically, not abruptly through forcing abstract concepts that are irrelevant to the practical time frame. More often then not, they are too abstract and if abstract change is forced prematurely, it becomes disruptive to the ecosystem and in the end just fucks up the present.

Theory without practicality is a cousin to extremist ideology.[/QUOTE]They can happen both fast and slow. Time is a relative term. Media companies get extremely well paid in order to force through paradigm changes on grand scales. One such thing is the 'global warming'. So not all paradigm changes happens organically. Some do, but also some are forced through with the help of the media.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2283907]Mr McAdonis,

OK, one of my more serious post and not one of my mostly usual messing around post.

This is why I make sure I have friends in private life that I have known for years since I was kids or teen, I treasure those relationship, in many cases, I cannot discuss even with them about what I do in area of mongering, so for that, I made some friends online who I interact more seriously like this at inbox private messages of this forum.

I think as human, it is important to have people who one can talk to, I just think that person do not need to be prostitutes for sake and mental health of both parties. [/QUOTE]At the extremes of this hobby, my opinion is there are people who are in denial. It is a defense mechanism. They imagine realities because they don't want to face the truth. If you truly have friends in private life, then I hope you are not neglecting these relationships.

I will say this: you certainly do not seem to be neglecting the German FKK threads. You seem to be quite active here, as well as inbox messaging, and my understanding is that your mongering in Germany only constitutes a small percentage of your overall mongering activity. You have over 3 K posts in the German FKK threads. One might reasonably assume that you have 30 K posts in Japan threads in Japanese language forums? Are you making posts while you are at the office?

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2283630]Have you tried [URL]www.mysugardaddy.eu[/URL]? Any luck if you did?[/QUOTE]Thanks for the reminder. No I haven't. I intend to look into it. I can be quite lazy when it comes to exploring alternatives. I will probably be inboxing you whenever I do.

[QUOTE=FreeDude;2285046]There have been clubs in Emmerich before (Fun Garden, Lekker Ding), but they always struggle. Schuttdorf is near the border as well and Golden Dreams always struggled to get decent line ups, until they left. Just 20 miles down the A3 from Emmerich you have SC Venus and Gallardo (previously Marisol), all of which struggle to get anything going that resembles the bigger clubs (although Venus can be nice for a few hours). Simply put, (I think) that far north there aren't enough people to make clubs with many girls successful. Neither in Germany nor in the Netherlands. If you are travelling from the bigger Ducth cities (Amsterdam, Utrecht, Rotterdam), you'll be on the road for a while anyway and the difference between Bruggen and Emmerich won't matter. Believe me, I do this a few times each month and normally I breeze past Emmerich and Hamminkeln towards clubs I want to visit. Or I cross the border at Venlo (smack in between Yin Yang and Golden Time).[/QUOTE]Have some of these clubs you mentioned closed? You seem to speak about a few in past tense. Can you elaborate on why SC Venus is only nice for a few hours? You have always seemed the most knowledgeable on the smaller NRW clubs that nobody else talks about or even hear of.

How would you rank these smaller clubs in terms of LU size, service, or optics? Diamond, Gallardo, Great Palace, Havana, SC Venus, Harem, Tutti Frutti, Van Goch, Xanten, Zeus, DejaVu, Salome, Neby, Aplerbeck, Luder Lounge or any other ones I may have missed. I mean, if someone had an interest in branching out and exploring these smaller places, are there a few that you would recommend above the others?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2285571]No. I paid in francs 280/30. 380/45.

I just put it in Euros at more or less current exchange rate. Since I was speaking to a German forum.[/QUOTE]At Globe, you can pay 130 € for 140 CHF. Can also pay in USD, also at Aphro.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2285634]At the extremes of this hobby, my opinion is there are people who are in denial. It is a defense mechanism. They imagine realities because they don't want to face the truth. If you truly have friends in private life, then I hope you are not neglecting these relationships.

I will say this: you certainly do not seem to be neglecting the German FKK threads. You seem to be quite active here, as well as inbox messaging, and my understanding is that your mongering in Germany only constitutes a small percentage of your overall mongering activity. You have over 3 K posts in the German FKK threads. One might reasonably assume that you have 30 K posts in Japan threads in Japanese language forums? Are you making posts while you are at the office?[/QUOTE]Yeah, mostly at office, but also at home too usually at night and in the morning. Most of time, I just mess around here at forum, but sometimes, I do write seriously. Inbox is where it is more constantly serious rather little more intellectual communications goes on with those I became virtual friends with on this forum, which amaze me as most of time I do not take forum seriously, but I guess they were smart enough or nice enough to read between the line LOL.

It is good thing because even with 99% of my childhood friends, I do not share about my mongering life due to fear that it could leak out, so in a way, it is my secret life, so forum or more inbox is nice place to spend sometime and it does not take alot of time as you maybe were trying to point out, like this post I am writing now, it took me about 2 minutes to write, that is why most of time, again, this is sex forum and I do not take it too seriously, beside some inbox messaging and even some forum postings actually make me grow as person, like mr the cane and mr phallus maximus often write very intellectual posts that are inspiring and I did relate to install some of their thoughts. It is good input place also. And I do reply even to immature posts, which in part I am guilty of as I do write non serious staff on forum most of times, but hey I am in my late 30's, and how old are those guys getting frustrate at me? LOL.

And no, I do not write on Japanese sex forum, most posts are even less quality here and at home ground I have full control of what I am doing to get most beautiful eurasians that are rare here, as for FKK, I go one to three trips per year max when I can, one trip is must no matter how busy I am or sometimes I cannot bother to travel as I have been doing western beauties since age 17 began in switzerland, so I sometimes force myself to go, though once I am there excitement comes back. When I began FKK, I used to do about 10 days to max 14 days consecutive FKK trip one time per year, then I later divided that to 2 or 3 trips of just 5 consecutive FKK days due to efficiency and in par performance, well performance part I met cialis and that solved it. I guess this answer some questions for you?

But what I do not get is this. I just do not get why some people try to get relationship with prostitutes in FKK, this is not to insult prostitutes or nothing like that, but what I mean is that, FKK is brothel, it is not place to seek for soul mate or someone you can deeply connect with, brothel is place to have sex. I have good relation with girls I repeat, but that good relation stay in FKK because what happen in FKK stays in FKK, sometimes they write me on e-mail, but I know it is just a sales mail and these girls are not serious, I think seeking relationship in FKK with prostitutes are dangerous both men and prostitutes and there are some cases in past that escalated to very sad vicious crime because of that and clients who seek relationship with girls is worst clients mentally for girls, good money though they said. Most close friends that last for life are made in high school and university, not in brothel.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2285330]I see your point regarding German management but also important is having a large contingent of ethnic German clientele. They seem to keep the standards high and spending expectation from girls low. However the problem with German owned clubs is that with the exception of GT, optic levels are usually lower compared to other clubs. Clubs like Babylon, Finca, LR generally keep a smaller line up with unspectacular optics.[/QUOTE]You are absolutely correct and I completely agree with you. That is optic trade-off of good service which I talked about several times before. In the FKK clubs in the integrated region of Germany, Austria, Netherlands and Switzerland, optics and service compromise each other in theory and practice which I explained in one of my previous posts.

Switzerland is not exceptional as long as Romanian WGs dominate its scene. It is a waste of money if you go to Switzerland for optics because, as Swiss culture and tradition, any Swiss sex establishment would emphasize on the quality of service which would inevitably compromise the quality of optics. Yes, you will get it if you go there for WG’s service.

I understand here is FKK forum with many FKK fans, so let's not discuss further about FKK WGs except to think about all the posts on this subject including mine.

With regards to Dutch clubs, can anyone name one Dutch club which has the same quality of WG's service as GT, LR, Babylon, Finca, Luder Lounge, Villa Venus and other German clubs owned by ETHNIC Germans (not Turkish Germans)?

[QUOTE=Pistons;2285589]They can happen both fast and slow. Time is a relative term. Media companies get extremely well paid in order to force through paradigm changes on grand scales. One such thing is the 'global warming'. So not all paradigm changes happens organically. Some do, but also some are forced through with the help of the media.[/QUOTE]Speed was a irrelevant side point. Organically and praticality were the real points.

Global warming: that's called informing the public of you know, facts. Yet 50 years later and over half of the world's population doesn't give a fuck.

You're basically making my point with media induced paradigm shifts. Look how well those agendas have been going. Feminism: clusterfuck with men playing along to either get laid covertly or to protect their careers. Forced Liberalism: conservative and nationalist backlash that has led to Trump, Brexit, and possibly future Italian and Hungarian nationalist regression.

Successful paradigm shifts short of war and revolutions where people were you know, starving and dying, generally do not happen abruptly from abstract nutjobs who consider themselves free thinkers, forcing impractical, abstract ideas down people's throats.

What happens when nutjobs with abstract ideas prevail? Fucking return of measles and polio.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2285654]At Globe, you can pay 130 for 140 CHF. Can also pay in USD, also at Aphro.[/QUOTE]The price in ZH Globe becoming within same price range as some German FKK like Artemis and Palace etc. NRW is the only hope for fair enough pricing nowadays.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2285700]I understand here is FKK forum with many FKK fans, so let's not discuss further about FKK WGs except to think about all the posts on this subject including mine.

With regards to Dutch clubs, can anyone name one Dutch club which has the same quality of WG's service as GT, LR, Babylon, Finca, Luder Lounge, Villa Venus and other German clubs owned by ETHNIC Germans (not Turkish Germans)?[/QUOTE]SixSense probably above all on your list. Maybe Babylon has the same level as SixSense. Some girls have gone between SS and Babylon Elsdorf a few times the past year for this reason I suppose. GT certainly below (and below YY too). No idea about Villa Venus or Luder Lounge.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2285700]I understand here is FKK forum with many FKK fans, so let's not discuss further about FKK WGs except to think about all the posts on this subject including mine.

With regards to Dutch clubs, can anyone name one Dutch club which has the same quality of WG's service as GT, LR, Babylon, Finca, Luder Lounge, Villa Venus and other German clubs owned by ETHNIC Germans (not Turkish Germans)?[/QUOTE]What is a WG quality? For me = the pickiest guy, first she has to be pretty and a bit elegant, then it s only guy skill and behavior to be able to get what he wants from her, to give her the will to give him, even when paying. Some guys will report some girls are lazy or don t kiss, when these girls just want to give only suck and fuck to these guys. We have to be 2 into, for good time.

Then, I had great girls at YY, at least 5 since November 2017, 3 asking for orgasmus with 1 who was upset when I didn t succeed to give her, more than at Sharks + Oase at same time, at least same level than GT for these girls potential. Had also 1 very good surprise at 6 ens, not busy, probably because too elegant sophisticated, but despite small silicon, a real woman in bed, not a little upselling GND, this just for 100 for 1 very full GFE hour.

About Globe, yes more expensive, but really higher level for woman type looks and for level in bed, for 130 €/30 mn, not so much more expensive than some Sharks or Oase little girls. Real women don t upsell at Sharks.

But better to visit to be able to know, and also to be able to deserve from girls.

I don't know about the ethnicity of the owners but those 2 last years I had good encounters in 6 sense.

And maybe I'm the only one but I never realized so many differences in the optic department between sharks and LR or sharks and Finca. More girls yes, prettier 'not so sure. Between Sharks and Aca gold the difference in optics is obvious.

Hello there,

Long time lurker, new poster.

I will soon be visiting Germany again after a long time and only have one visit to Artemis under my belt.

I'm going to spend some time in the Frankfurt area and was wondering what club would suit my wishes better.

Basically looking for women on the slightly thicker end of the spectrum. Not BBW's, just full round asses and natural tits. No optifucks needed, plain old depravity will suffice.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2285669]But what I do not get is this. I just do not get why some people try to get relationship with prostitutes in FKK, this is not to insult prostitutes or nothing like that, but what I mean is that, FKK is brothel, it is not place to seek for soul mate or someone you can deeply connect with, brothel is place to have sex. I have good relation with girls I repeat, but that good relation stay in FKK because what happen in FKK stays in FKK, sometimes they write me on e-mail, but I know it is just a sales mail and these girls are not serious, I think seeking relationship in FKK with prostitutes are dangerous both men and prostitutes and there are some cases in past that escalated to very sad vicious crime because of that and clients who seek relationship with girls is worst clients mentally for girls, good money though they said. Most close friends that last for life are made in high school and university, not in brothel.[/QUOTE]I mainly agree with you here actually. But I have also noticed through the years that there are working girls who are single, and their job is keeping them away from the normal dating game. So an easy way for these girls can be to find a monger. And some of these girls can be stunningly beautiful. So in these, I have to add rare cases, it is not something to completely rule out. What the numbers are is hard to say. Some say 90% have boyfriends already. Maybe. We don't know for sure. Only guesses. And some even date these girls without paying too. I have dated several girls mainly in asia without paying too. Working girls in the past. But in europe I havebt had the guts yet to take the chance as I feel the risk is higher. Maybe its cultural. It seems in some places to be kind of something a wg would hide from her other nationals as it seems to have stigma for some of them. Like a chinese girl dating a westerner for example due to the imposed idea chinese men give out stating there are too many sibgke Chinese men. Maybe Romanian or Turkish men feel the same as a grouped together 'immigrant society'. But now I am just guessibg here. Even if I had 10+ different gitls telling me a certain girl was not trying to fool me once at an FKK when she wanted to move in with me permanently, I bailed out. So far that leap just seems to far. Just like you say, partly for those same reasons. And partly also for the history of the girls having charged you for something (like chess in the room). In asia, this dating of wg's are far more normal than in europe though. In Macau for example due to the incredibly skewed gender imbalance with far more women than men. Thailand and south east asia for other more obvious reasons. Why it is different in Europe than in asia? History may be one reason in thailand. Maybe somebody here can make good guesses. But it seems to me like most girls doing this for a living is opposed to it while working. Aside from fooling guys into paying more indirectly ofcourse. And then dating. But it can be an option for them the moment they quit this job. However, that might mean that they are of the older types and 30+ when getting to that point. Maybe it is like a way of retiering for both wg's and monger alike. But I hope not too many get their hopes up, as it seems to lead to silly drama, and rumored to also lead to dangerous incidents if one get fooled. And the majority is getting fooled.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2285634]At the extremes of this hobby, my opinion is there are people who are in denial. It is a defense mechanism. They imagine realities because they don't want to face the truth. If you truly have friends in private life, then I hope you are not neglecting these relationships.

I will say this: you certainly do not seem to be neglecting the German FKK threads. You seem to be quite active here, as well as inbox messaging, and my understanding is that your mongering in Germany only constitutes a small percentage of your overall mongering activity. You have over 3 K posts in the German FKK threads. One might reasonably assume that you have 30 K posts in Japan threads in Japanese language forums? Are you making posts while you are at the office?[/QUOTE]Nice attempt but delusion is apparently one hell of a beast and you are right that it's probably not worth bothering attempting to preaent a reality check. Your contribution to society is noted.

I'll add to our conversation earlier. While I stand by by my proposed benefits of socializing with prostitutes as a way to gain some social skills, I suppose that is only appropriate only people who are shy or a little awkward. As alluded to, in this case they can serve as a psychologist, pressure release vavlve, or life counselor. However, people suffering from delusions and practicing denial of one's own limitations, well, they probably would not benefit. These people would just fall further into their delusions, lying to themselves and others.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2285210]But as mentioned in my last post, and Takedown hinted at also, framed words such as 'w. Ore', and 'ho. Oker' have been brought out into public discourse for a purpose by certain interest groups in order to program non liberal individuals.[/QUOTE]Each word / name itself is a distinct frame! LIke we say, eg: "in the name of freedom".

[QUOTE=Pistons;2285210]The main paradigm change which has barely started, and hardly many, if even any world leaders get a slight graps of the boundaries of today, is the information age. And the internet in particular. Eventually it will make the enlightenment turn into a baby step of a mouse.[/QUOTE]Information is for intellectuals and computers. Intuition and wisdom are for human beings that got in contact with (their) intelligence.

The imo best modern map of stages of consiousness and the evolution of mankind, written in a language that is easily understandable, can be found in the work of Ken Wilber (Integral Institute). If one doesn't mind a book with 800+ pages, I would recommend this one her:

[URL]https://www.amazon.com/Religion-Tomorrow-Traditions-More-Inclusive-Comprehensive/dp/1611803004/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1549899721&sr=8-3&keywords=ken[/URL]+wilber+books.

Group,

Now I understand why there is not much information in this forum regarding FKK Morgenland. Visited Morgenland on a Monday afternoon and the place was dead! Their website would lead you to believe the club is much bigger than it is and much nicer. In truth, it's small and not so nice. Was only there for a few minutes when I realized that there was not much fun to be had. Saw four girls and only one of them would have considered having a session with. And, no diet soda! Looked at the time and realized I could get to Colosseum right at opening so I took off.

I'm not saying "do not go" but saying "keep your expectations low".

[QUOTE=NickTheG;2285945]Each word / name itself is a distinct frame! LIke we say, eg: "in the name of freedom".

Information is for intellectuals and computers. Intuition and wisdom are for human beings that got in contact with (their) intelligence.

The imo best modern map of stages of consiousness and the evolution of mankind, written in a language that is easily understandable, can be found in the work of Ken Wilber (Integral Institute). If one doesn't mind a book with 800+ pages, I would recommend this one her:

[URL]https://www.amazon.com/Religion-Tomorrow-Traditions-More-Inclusive-Comprehensive/dp/1611803004/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1549899721&sr=8-3&keywords=ken[/URL]+wilber+books.[/QUOTE]I have no idea where you got it from that every word is a frame. Every subjective word you choose to use a frame. But not an objective word that you don't use. For example, the word 'word', is an objective word. We use words all the time, but we don't write 'word' in every sentence. There are distinct types of framing too, and I was referring to action framing.

About the information age, the main outcome, and perhaps the whole idea behind it, is to fuse your two distinct domains: robotic intellect and intuition / wisdom. We call such a fusion a cyborg, and in a way, we have all just started becoming one through communicating from far away, and between all age groups. Soon we might even learn to read minds. Or who knows, we might be able to hack each others memories. What then? We can reexperience the emotions, impulses and sensations Brad Pitt had when boning Angelina Jolie? Or vice versa for women? LOL.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2285743]Speed was a irrelevant side point. Organically and praticality were the real points.

Global warming: that's called informing the public of you know, facts. Yet 50 years later and over half of the world's population doesn't give a fuck.

You're basically making my point with media induced paradigm shifts. Look how well those agendas have been going. Feminism: clusterfuck with men playing along to either get laid covertly or to protect their careers. Forced Liberalism: conservative and nationalist backlash that has led to Trump, Brexit, and possibly future Italian and Hungarian nationalist regression.

Successful paradigm shifts short of war and revolutions where people were you know, starving and dying, generally do not happen abruptly from abstract nutjobs who consider themselves free thinkers, forcing impractical, abstract ideas down people's throats.

What happens when nutjobs with abstract ideas prevail? Fucking return of measles and polio.[/QUOTE]Lets just say that 99% of what you read in the news is grey truths. And most of them are agendas forced upon us. Most of which agendas are even public now with Agenda 21, agenda 2030, New Urban Agenda in protection of migrants, IOM etc etc etc.

New previously abstract words become common every year, and soon gain traction in the public. Everything evolves, languages, people, knowledge, technologies. Nothing is stagnant. Everyone is a 'nutjob'. It makes us into individuals. Some are just more open and honest about it than others.

Getting into conspiracy theories on this forum won't get us anywhere, and can spin into ad infinitum 10 new pages. So lets not get started. But that is the power of the media. To stake out what is fake news, and what is not. And the average guy listens to it. Because NBC said it, and NBC has Brian Williams and Lester Holt. Two likable guys with faces that seem honest. As if we actually hear the interpretations of these seemingly professional well spoken faces, and not just hear them reading large letters on a big screen next to the camera shooting them. Written by an abstract nutjob freak sitting behind a computer with two inch thick glasses, one arm, a stinky t shirt and cum on his right hand. (LOL).

I will just make one example. CO2 may, or may not cause global warming. I might lack enough information. Media news spin doctors definitely haven't managed to show it inconclusively. But what we do know for a fact, is that if we reduce the amount of water in the lower cloud layer of the earth. The higher cloud layers move upwards, and we get a double warming effect. This is being done en masse with something known as cloud seeding. And we have been doing this more and more for over 50 years already. In parallel with global warming taking off. Overpopulation and our thirst for water can then be concluded as causing global warming. Not our usage of CO2. But our hunger for water hits less fairly economically than our hunger for CO2.

[URL]https://youtu.be/Tmk7nAvpMXQ[/URL]

But ofcourse you are right in that information cause paradigm changes. It just depends on how we frame that information. We call it spin doctoring. A subjective take on reality. It can both be facts, and it can be half truths to some.

Every political change is caused by a nutjob who considers himself a free thinker. That is how the world evolves. Believeing we are the exception to the rule is insanity. Just look at Donald Trump. Or Hillary Clinton for that matter. Delve deep enough into any presidental candidate you have in the nutjob country USA (all countries are the same. Just that the media industry of USA is more rough), and you end up finding dirt if you want. At least if you want to frame it all as dirt. And even framing something as dirt can have a forseen or unforseen consequence. Ending up being positive or negative for certain agendas.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2285762]GT certainly below (and below YY too). No idea about Villa Venus or Luder Lounge.[/QUOTE]But you have never sessioned at GT. Use of the word "Certainly" seems to be a case of poor reporting, certainly one not using first hand experience while disregarding the the viewpoints of those with whom you most often monger. This attitude may lead one to take a shitty session immediately after a fellow monger tells you that a WG should be avoided.

Reviews are by nature generally subjective but subjectivity should at least be based on experience.

The greatest skill a human being can have is neighter intellect, wisdom nor intuition. It is empathy. And we like emphatic people. Girls with empathy makes more money than others. If Sirioja wants a kiss, a girl kiss. If BigDaddyCool76 and CaneupHosAss likes anal, the girl gives away anal as an option. Maybe even doing training at home with a toy in order to open up. LOL. Just because she knows there are kinky guys out there who are different. Because they understand what some other people are searching for. Of course, as long as it doesn't harm themselves physically. That is the psychology I think Takedown might be searching for without saying it. We all have larger or smaller demons inside of us that wants out. And certain demons are such that working girls tend to them better than a male psychologist. If we suppress them, they may grow larger, and bad things may occur.

Thomas Aquinas coined it well for his time and in his cultural context.

- Prostitution in the towns is like the cesspool in the palace: take away the cesspool and the palace will become an unclean and evil-smelling place. - Thomas Aquinas.

[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2285821]I don't know about the ethnicity of the owners but those 2 last years I had good encounters in 6 sense.

And maybe I'm the only one but I never realized so many differences in the optic department between sharks and LR or sharks and Finca. More girls yes, prettier 'not so sure. Between Sharks and Aca gold the difference in optics is obvious.[/QUOTE]I dunno man. I just visited both Sharks and Finca 2 days apart. While, I love Finca, the optic disparity is pretty glaring. To a lesser degree, LR also. Maybe I am just fooled by the total nudity versus dessous clubs.

Oh, and people don't like intellectual people. Because 50% of us will allways be opposed, and 50% will allways agree. That is why I tell random guy at Sharks who asks who these forum trolls such as for example Kosher Kowboy is, who spam ISG are. That I don't post on an internet forum. And then he looks bewilderred himself too, as he was in fact searching for a likeminded group of guys from a secret hidden brotherhood of weirdo nutjobs (courtesy of Takedown). That he also never post on internet forums. He then proceeds with his search to weed us out of the crowds. But I once met a guy that did post on an internet forum, and he was a bit strange. (LOL). Because chances are he hates my ideas and will just play nice if I tell him. The power of immunity. At least untill the random german local with eyes everywhere sniffs you out and tells him. As abstract or not this story was. It can theoretically happen.

I think that many Takedown's FKK-related observations and views are spot on and he is one of the best and most sensible FKK observers on FKK forum by his FKK experience. I am not talking about other FKK-unrelated issues on which everyone can have his own opinion, but I think he got very good senses on many FKK-related issues due to his FKK experience and observation.

It is time for me to go back to work LOL.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2286020]The greatest skill a human being can have is neighter intellect, wisdom nor intuition. It is empathy. And we like emphatic people. Girls with empathy makes more money than others. If Sirioja wants a kiss, a girl kiss. If BigDaddyCool76 and CaneupHosAss likes anal, the girl gives away anal as an option. Maybe even doing training at home with a toy in order to open up. LOL. Just because she knows there are kinky guys out there who are different. Because they understand what some other people are searching for. Of course, as long as it doesn't harm themselves physically. That is the psychology I think Takedown might be searching for without saying it. We all have larger or smaller demons inside of us that wants out. And certain demons are such that working girls tend to them better than a male psychologist. If we suppress them, they may grow larger, and bad things may occur.

Thomas Aquinas coined it well for his time and in his cultural context.

- Prostitution in the towns is like the cesspool in the palace: take away the cesspool and the palace will become an unclean and evil-smelling place. - Thomas Aquinas.[/QUOTE]Kissing is the most intimate for most of girls, much more than sucking, even CIM, even AO sex, and I make the job with my manners to give girls the will to come to kiss me, really enjoyable is while fucking and she put her going faster and faster breathe in your mouth. Some become really passionate under caresses or when we are deep inside.

As say girls, we are different and easy to notice how some girls treat us in very different way, before room, girls will go to ask to some guys when some guys will have to wait all night or run after, in room girls won t give same program with all of us, and how girls will behave after we paid. I enjoy when girls propose me to go for diner before and even more after, and really enjoyable was a really good surprise preparing sandwich for her and me on late night, after love in bed, not only sex can really be enjoyable, girls behavior is very important for me, what I call GFE, when girls just run away from most, after getting money.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2285902]I mainly agree with you here actually. But I have also noticed through the years that there are working girls who are single, and their job is keeping them away from the normal dating game. So an easy way for these girls can be to find a monger. And some of these girls can be stunningly beautiful. So in these, I have to add rare cases, it is not something to completely rule out. What the numbers are is hard to say. Some say 90% have boyfriends already. Maybe. We don't know for sure. Only guesses. And some even date these girls without paying too. I have dated several girls mainly in asia without paying too. Working girls in the past. But in europe I havebt had the guts yet to take the chance as I feel the risk is higher. Maybe its cultural. It seems in some places to be kind of something a wg would hide from her other nationals as it seems to have stigma for some of them. Like a chinese girl dating a westerner for example due to the imposed idea chinese men give out stating there are too many sibgke Chinese men. Maybe Romanian or Turkish men feel the same as a grouped together 'immigrant society'..[/QUOTE]OK, writing seriously here, and I contradict what I wrote a little bit.

I tend to also think in FKK, client can have some kind of friendship or relationship with girls because we now finally live in freedom enough world, where we more or less can do what we want or say what we want to say to great extent, but all I am saying for sake and safety of both parties, both clients and working girls in FKK, it is better to draw some line in German FKK because it is brothel, it is place to seek for sexual fantasies and it is not place to communicate in deeper level with opposite sex in mental spiritual level, you can connect in deeper level in sexual level that is FKK for me, this is what I really think for sake and safety of both parties.

There are many different girls in FKK and not all pimp and lover boys behind though most are, but the fact that they come into your life so deep sexually and they are gone is part of beauty of mongering, though connection is deep in sexual level, somehow some of my past favorite girls I frequented stays in my beautiful memories.

As for aftermath of FKK girls, many girls told me that they quit then they get boyfriends to live their life, I hope they will as many are actually nice hearted girls even in such hard situation that they are in and I respect their strength to stay kind and warm hearted, they are stronger many of us mongers. Whether it is true or not, I wish every girl I repeated in room to be happy in their after FKK life. I sometimes do think about their dreams they told me in room even though they are long gone and yes, you are right, they continue this life of FKK, it is not impossible, but hard to get themselves a real boyfriend because no man send their wife or loved one to FKK if they truly love them. I give respect and praises for how some of those FKK girls managed to stay so strong, brave and warm hearted and fair even in such harsh situation in FKK and they are given to bad hand of unfortunate fate called life in FKK for now.

Meanwhile, let me get back to usual Mr Ho LOL! As long as mongers continue to be mongers, we cannot get real girlfriend because we know where we can get better juices are than girls who will age and decrease in quality, in FKK our girlfriends are young, beautiful and they change all the time without stress, no negotiation their legs are wide open even their anal are open, and hey it is much cheaper than marriage LOL!

[QUOTE=Pistons;2286027]Oh, and people don't like intellectual people. Because 50% of us will allways be opposed, and 50% will allways agree. That is why I tell random guy at Sharks who asks who these forum trolls such as for example Kosher Kowboy is, who spam ISG are. That I don't post on an internet forum. And then he looks bewilderred himself too, as he was in fact searching for a likeminded group of guys from a secret hidden brotherhood of weirdo nutjobs (courtesy of Takedown). That he also never post on internet forums. He then proceeds with his search to weed us out of the crowds. But I once met a guy that did post on an internet forum, and he was a bit strange. (LOL). Because chances are he hates my ideas and will just play nice if I tell him. The power of immunity. At least untill the random german local with eyes everywhere sniffs you out and tells him. As abstract or not this story was. It can theoretically happen.[/QUOTE]Thank you for the shoutout from Bfsie.

To KK's defense. There's a difference between people with social quirks being a little eccentric and nutjub trolls. One would have to be a complete societal outsider with a lack of awareness of social graces to consider Kosher Kowboy a troll. He is amicable in his writings and is one of the more pleasant posters.

Also there is a difference between thinking outside the box and being a contrarian.

P.S. I recall that you had a room at GT so I retract my statement that you had no experience there. My apologies. Please continue your anti Golden Time and pro Oceans crusade at your pleasure.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2286009]Getting into conspiracy theories on this forum won't get us anywhere, and can spin into ad infinitum 10 new pages. So lets not get started. But that is the power of the media. To stake out what is fake news, and what is not. And the average guy listens to it. Because NBC said it, and NBC has Brian Williams and Lester Holt. Two likable guys with faces that seemed m honest. As if we actually hear the interpretations of these seemingly professional well spoken faces, and not just hear them reading large letters on a big screen next to the camera shooting them. Written by an abstract nutjob freak sitting behind a computer with two inch thick glasses, one arm, a stinky t shirt and cum on his right hand. (LOL).

I will just make one example. CO2 may, or may not cause global warming. I might lack enough information. Media news spin doctors definitely haven't managed to show it inconclusively. But what we do know for a fact, is that if we reduce the amount of water in the lower cloud layer of the earth. The higher cloud layers move upwards, and we get a double warming effect. This is being done en masse with something known as cloud seeding. And we have been doing this more and more for over 50 years already. In parallel with global warming taking off. Overpopulation and our thirst for water can then be concluded as causing global warming. Not our usage of CO2. But our hunger for water hits less fairly economically than our hunger for CO2.[/QUOTE]"Let's not get started with conspiracy theory" but goes off in anti climate change tangent. Ridiculous.

"Every political change caused by a nutjob". Difference between nutjob and well informed people who present practical ideas. The worst are contrarians who's main priority is not to present enlightenment and objectivity but rather to appear wise by constantly presenting contradicting ideas no matter how ridiculous and impractical. As an example of I'll-prove-you-wrong contrarian personality type, I'll refer to picking Sharky girls at Oase in face of strong recommendation to avoid and proceeding and failing to make and entry deadline despite direct recommendation not to do so. Ad hominem yes, but supports the point nonetheless.

I was curious about FKK Sixsens after you guys mentioned it, so I contacted a Dutch guy I know who regularly goes to various FKK clubs. He told me that the owner of Sixsens is a German, not a Dutch, but he is not sure the owner is ethnic German or Turkish German. The club is right on the Dutch-German border, just a couple of minutes from German city Aachen, although technically the club is in Netherlands. Just let you guys know.

I heard there are a few small FKK sauna clubs on the west part of Netherlands near Amsterdam or The Hague. I guess few ISGers know them.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2286020]The greatest skill a human being can have is neighter intellect, wisdom nor intuition. It is empathy.[/QUOTE]I am sure you can supply us with a link to some scientific research on this topic leading to the conclusion you mentioned! Smiley.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2286020]And we like emphatic people. Girls with empathy makes more money than others. If Sirioja wants a kiss, a girl kiss. If BigDaddyCool76 and CaneupHosAss likes anal, the girl gives away anal as an option. Maybe even doing training at home with a toy in order to open up. LOL. Just because she knows there are kinky guys out there who are different. Because they understand what some other people are searching for. Of course, as long as it doesn't harm themselves physically.[/QUOTE]While I agree that empathy, when developed, is a great gift, I think your examples have littel if all to do with empathy. It is more about taking a decision in a special working environment. The decision of a female sex worker about how many parts / facets of her natural body and alive being, and to what extent, she wants to commercialize.

[QUOTE=NickTheG;2286444]While I agree that empathy, when developed, is a great gift, I think your examples have littel if all to do with empathy. It is more about taking a decision in a special working environment. The decision of a female sex worker about how many parts / facets of her natural body and alive being, and to what extent, she wants to commercialize.[/QUOTE]To his point, it probably does take empathy but it is used selfishly, empathy nonetheless. That type of girl can have empathy but uses that understanding to extract more money. Empathetic but neither sympathetic or benevolent.

I think this topic has been discussed before but it is a fascinating topic. Although it is rare, I don't think it is impossible for an FKK girl to fall in love with one of her clients- or for the client to fall in love with one of his FKK girls - but the problems would start not from them but from society. Once your friends and family find out that your GF / partner / wife was a former FKK girl (prostitute) the pressure on the couple would be very high. I think Mr Ho is correct that in the more advanced societies of Western Europe, where people are liberal and religion is seen as an outdated thing, you have more chance of success because people generally don't care about other's personal lives but in more conservative societies (Muslim countries, Asian countries, Catholic countries, Latin America) it would be much more of a stigma. Obviously, I'm generalisiing and I'm sure there will be exceptions to all those examples I've given (especially if you're amongst the very wealthy in any society you can do what you want!) So possible, yes. Likely? No. I think it would make a great novel or movie script.

I think the girls are worthy of respect tbh and I respect those countries like Germany which has legalised this profession-- it is the first step to removing the stigma completely.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2286392]"Every political change caused by a nutjob". Difference between nutjob and well informed people who present practical ideas. The worst are contrarians who's main priority is not to present enlightenment and objectivity but rather to appear wise by constantly presenting contradicting ideas no matter how ridiculous and impractical. As an example of I'll-prove-you-wrong contrarian personality type, I'll refer to picking Sharky girls at Oase in face of strong recommendation to avoid and proceeding and failing to make and entry deadline despite direct recommendation not to do so. Ad hominem yes, but supports the point nonetheless.[/QUOTE]Sharky? You pay 200 e for a 3-some sub 1 hour session. I pay 15 e extra cause my phone died and I was out of battery. Still I call this all laissez-faire thinking and doing, and I don't judge like stereotypically seems to keep doing. Making silly defining words like 'nutjob', and thinking your own mind is special and so much more educated and well informed. Even claiming contradictions where it might just be you not getting the entire picture.

Nick the G: LOL at the first one. But you won't get anything through in life without some game theory. The robotic definition on what empathy really is. You go on to basically describe this empathy as robotic as well in your second response. I suppose it is all a matter of how to frame it. Smiley.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2286364]Thank you for the shoutout from Bfsie.

To KK's defense. There's a difference between people with social quirks being a little eccentric and nutjub trolls. One would have to be a complete societal outsider with a lack of awareness of social graces to consider Kosher Kowboy a troll. He is amicable in his writings and is one of the more pleasant posters.

Also there is a difference between thinking outside the box and being a contrarian.

P.S. I recall that you had a room at GT so I retract my statement that you had no experience there. My apologies. Please continue your anti Golden Time and pro Oceans crusade at your pleasure.[/QUOTE]Maybe you might want to reread that post I made, cause your makes no sense at all. And stop assuming. It just gets silly. P.S.: I didn't mention KK myself. (Not going to explain my post further cause it was a rather funny incident).

[QUOTE=Takedown;2286364]Thank you for the shoutout from Bfsie.

To KK's defense. There's a difference between people with social quirks being a little eccentric and nutjub trolls. One would have to be a complete societal outsider with a lack of awareness of social graces to consider Kosher Kowboy a troll. He is amicable in his writings and is one of the more pleasant posters.

Also there is a difference between thinking outside the box and being a contrarian.

P.S. I recall that you had a room at GT so I retract my statement that you had no experience there. My apologies. Please continue your anti Golden Time and pro Oceans crusade at your pleasure.[/QUOTE]I have had 8 or 9 rooms at GT. From 5 visits I believe. You can find some of my earliest reports if you feel like searching.

Bfsie can think what he wants, but my take on it, although I hope you can take it as something to improve on instead of as an insult, is to be less possessive over the girls you like in an FKK. Be it either Carla (Oase) telling her other customers are idiots and then she avoids him right after, Lucy (aca / gt etc) getting turned off by her sitting with a fat German or discussing who she likes the most with other ISG'ers in pm's or on chat clients, Sophie (sharks) pushing away other clients just saying Hi, or Katea (Samya) where it is about ruining other mongers fantasies. It is not good for the girls if they want to make money from different customers instead of you, unless you want to pay quadruple, or for the general atmosphere here on ISG, or in FKK's. And it relates to all this 'sharing' we have discussed here. It has been going on for too long, and it related to not being able to shift into a new paradigm when entering the club environments. Possessiveness shouldn't have any presence in an FKK. And it can be dangerous. This is where the question of an enclosed mind comes in, and how and what we define an FKK to be.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2286452]To his point, it probably does take empathy but it is used selfishly, empathy nonetheless. That type of girl can have empathy but uses that understanding to extract more money. Empathetic but neither sympathetic or benevolent.[/QUOTE]Well said. These girls can be the best illusion makers, and so easily get clients devoted to them. Because they have genuine empathy they can get inside the client's head and also display genuine feeling. Empathy is a great tool for a working girl.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2286551]although I hope you can take it as something to improve on instead of as an insult, is to be less possessive over the girls you like in an FKK. Be it either Carla (Oase) telling her other customers are idiots and then she avoids him right after, Lucy (aca / gt etc) getting turned off by her sitting with a fat German or discussing who she likes the most with other ISG'ers in pm's or on chat clients, Sophie (sharks) pushing away other clients just saying Hi, or Katea (Samya) where it is about ruining other mongers fantasies. It is not good for the girls if they want to make money from different customers instead of you, unless you want to pay quadruple, or for the general atmosphere here on ISG, or in FKK's. And it relates to all this 'sharing' we have discussed here. It has been going on for too long, and it related to not being able to shift into a new paradigm when entering the club environments. Possessiveness shouldn't have any presence in an FKK. And it can be dangerous. This is where the question of an enclosed mind comes in, and how and what we define an FKK to be.[/QUOTE]I agree, facts are to who girls choose to go, I remember a really funny Saturday evening at GT when so many guys were waiting for small German Lucifer and because she didn't forget what she discovered in her body nearly 1 year ago at Palace, she asked to the only guy who was not interested to repeat with her. I can add Kity, but Katea for sure would be happy to still get now my business. Guys talk and girls choose who they prefer to go with.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2286558]Well said. These girls can be the best illusion makers, and so easily get clients devoted to them.[/QUOTE]How come they can make it better than you? These are your illusions, your property, not theirs!

You desperately look for a prostitute to show you how to become victimized by your own illusions?

[QUOTE=Optimist;2286558]Because they have genuine empathy they can get inside the client's head and also display genuine feeling. Empathy is a great tool for a working girl.[/QUOTE]Nice try, talking about "genuine" empathy, in a brothel. And astonishingly not about the empathy of the mongering men that visit the brothel, but about the empathy of women who work there!

Optimist, if you had that "genuine" empathy yourself, that you admire in those women, could you convince these women in a brothel to fuck with you without them asking you for money? Because they realised you are the best illusion maker and you can "display genuine feeling" and you know "how to creep inside the heads of women"?

Which leads to the question: do many of us constantly need to pay for women because we breed an overboarding illusionary trait, but suffer from a terrible lack of empathy? Smiley!

A link to an article on empathy vs. sympathy in "Psychology Today"
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hide-and-seek/201505/empathy-vs-sympathy

for those who want to learn something about different levels of empathy, here is another link to a more scientific oriented paper:
https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED371247.pdf

[QUOTE=Pistons;2286537] But you won't get anything through in life without some game theory.[/QUOTE]Has there been life on earth before someone talked about "game theory"? Smiley.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2286537]Sharky? You pay 200 e for a 3-some sub 1 hour session. I pay 15 e extra cause my phone died and I was out of battery. Still I call this all laissez-faire thinking and doing, and I don't judge like stereotypically seems to keep doing. Making silly defining words like 'nutjob', and thinking your own mind is special and so much more educated and well informed. Even claiming contradictions where it might just be you not getting the entire picture.[/QUOTE]I confess that I choose to live in the fantasy inside the clubs but make an effort to keep my mind rooted in objectivity in the real world. Some great benefits can be taken away from the clubs but keeping sensibilities in the world we live in 90% of the time has served me pretty well but I guess my experience is just mine and should not be expected from others. That is fair.

Sorry I lost 10 minutes times 2 since I finished at the 45 minute mark. I guess I should have made the girls stay in the room for the full 15 minutes to make sure they earned the money instead of the casual 5 minute cigarette and chat.

Is Palace entry only 65 euro or is it 75 euro? My math leads me to believe that missing early special specials puts one 25 euro in hole. Oase's early entry saves one 20 euro and Shark's Wednesday and Sunday specials saves one 15 euro.

Terrible session at Oase and not doing a session at Palace after a 75 euro entry, that is quite an unfortunate series of unforced errors. 125 euro unfortunate, perhaps 130 considering fuel.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2286543]Maybe you might want to reread that post I made, cause your makes no sense at all. And stop assuming. It just gets silly. P.S.: I didn't mention KK myself. (Not going to explain my post further cause it was a rather funny incident).[/QUOTE]KK was also under the impression that you were attacking him. Perhaps we are both illiterate?

My question is what did KK ever do to anyone to deserve this bad mouthing? That random Sharks guy is a terrible judge of character. But posters looking to make sure he gets his message across could benefit from the use of commas and semi colons.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2286551]I have had 8 or 9 rooms at GT. From 5 visits I believe. You can find some of my earliest reports if you feel like searching.

Bfsie can think what he wants, but my take on it, although I hope you can take it as something to improve on instead of as an insult, is to be less possessive over the girls you like in an FKK. Be it either Carla (Oase) telling her other customers are idiots and then she avoids him right after, Lucy (aca / gt etc) getting turned off by her sitting with a fat German or discussing who she likes the most with other ISG'ers in pm's or on chat clients, Sophie (sharks) pushing away other clients just saying Hi, or Katea (Samya) where it is about ruining other mongers fantasies. It is not good for the girls if they want to make money from different customers instead of you, unless you want to pay quadruple, or for the general atmosphere here on ISG, or in FKK's. And it relates to all this 'sharing' we have discussed here. It has been going on for too long, and it related to not being able to shift into a new paradigm when entering the club environments. Possessiveness shouldn't have any presence in an FKK. And it can be dangerous. This is where the question of an enclosed mind comes in, and how and what we define an FKK to be.[/QUOTE]Sorry perhaps my memory failed me and you have been to GT many times. My sincerest apologies. Again, please continue the anti GT crusade and boost Oceans as much as possible. It is entirely within the rights of all posters to have their opinions. Again, I am very sorry for this mistake.

As for the other points, I kinda see your point regarding the power of paradigm shifts. Some call it reframing. In this case I call it reinventing scenarios. It seems to be a very effective survival mechanism.

I have never once in my mongering life said anything bad about another monger to a WG unless she brings it up first. If she says something about another monger, then I might just agree with her or laugh along with her. If it protects someone's ego to make up in their own mind that WGs refuse to go with them because of other monger's words, then I suppose that survival mechanism works. I just think that self examination would be better in the long run as it leads to self improvement.

Is it all that strange to lose interest in a girl when you see her being intimate with another dude, tongue down each others throats, 3 meters away? The illusion was lost. Seems normal to me but perhaps I am the strange one here. If sharing is the game, I guess seeing CIM on a girl should not make one feel any apprehension with kissing her right after.

FKKs are quite interesting places but I think social graces generally still apply. I think it is rude and insulting to other clients to interject when he tells you that he is about to session with a WG. When a fellow monger tells you that he is about to session with a girl, I think it would be appropriate to let him continue instead of interjecting in the approach. At the very least it is disrespectful. At worst it compromises his bargaining power with the girl. That's a social grace that I think most people would find to be common sense.

Perhaps you are right and I am cruel and I should let the french monger continue his fantasy. It would help if the boasting and proclamations of grandeur was toned down a bit.

Lastly, I have to ask Pistons and Polyamorist. In what nutjob cult was the FKK sauna club declared to be about kumbaya sharing of pussy? I was under the impression that FKK was simply the hijacking of the German term for free body culture implanted on a door in order to generate revenue for brothel owners, that the FKK sauna club designation served to informed the customers the infrastructure to expect and how the girls would make their earnings. I wonder if the Paradise group has a manifesto with a mission statement promoting polygamous love paradigm shifts.

[QUOTE=NickTheG;2286603]How come they can make it better than you? These are your illusions, your property, not theirs!

You desperately look for a prostitute to show you how to become victimized by your own illusions?

Nice try, talking about "genuine" empathy, in a brothel. And astonishingly not about the empathy of the mongering men that visit the brothel, but about the empathy of women who work there!

Optimist, if you had that "genuine" empathy yourself, that you admire in those women, could you convince these women in a brothel to fuck with you without them asking you for money? Because they realised you are the best illusion maker and you know how to creep in the heads of women?

Which leads to the question: do many of us constantly need to pay for women because we breed an overboarding illusionary trait, but suffer from a terrible lack of empathy? Smiley![/QUOTE]I think defining empathy and distinguishing it from sympathy is in order:

Empathy. Noun. The ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

One can understand and even share that feeling without having benevolent intent. As stated, selfish intent is the goal of many girls. Empathy is used as a tool because with these feelings, they can better manipulate their clients.

On the other hand:

Sympathy. Noun. Feelings of pity and sorrow for someone else's misfortune.

The feeling of pity perhaps negates the ability to manipulate; however, we're talking about empathy not sympathy.

By definition, empathy means to feel what others feel. Some sociopaths just learn to mimic emotions. They understand what behaviors are rewardable and act accordingly. For instance, my neighbor could be a highly functioning sociopath. If my neighbor accidentally kills my dog with his car, he can apologize and extend his condolences, because he knows that is what is socially acceptable, but deep down he may not give a shit. Likewise a murderer may pretend to feel remorse simply to obtain a lighter sentence.

So if a WG pretends to be in love with her client, so that she can over the course of months put him into heavy financial debt--is she a sociopath? Not necessarily. Such WGs have the capacity to feel and share the pain of people in their personal lives, but with their lovesick clients, this conscience may not be present. In other words, the WG may view the client through a different lens. In the case of fly-in clients who spend all their free time in FKK clubs or locals who spend every weekend in FKK clubs, she can rationalize "This monger is a lonely man who has nobody in his life. He would fall in love with any woman who reciprocates his affection. If I don't take, advantage of him, someone else will. " She feels no remorse when asking for a sum that would put such a monger into debt, because in her mind, "he deserves it". She simply reasons "he desperately wants to fall in love and to be loved, so I am simply giving him what he asked for".

Rationalization is incredibly powerful. This is true for cybercriminals, unscrupulous WGs or any other type of scam artist from a poor country. There are many ways that they can absolve themselves from guilt or justify their wrongdoings. "he is rich, he won't miss it". "he is from a rich country, he will have other opportunities to recover financially. " or "His parents will die soon and he will bounce back financially after he gets his inheritance" or "Insurance will cover their financial losses". "Everyone else I know is doing it". Many other ways to dehumanize their marks or victims.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2286558]Well said. These girls can be the best illusion makers, and so easily get clients devoted to them. Because they have genuine empathy they can get inside the client's head and also display genuine feeling. Empathy is a great tool for a working girl.[/QUOTE]I totally agree with what both you and Takedown said regarding this. And as Takedown says, you can frame it as sympathy, empathy or whatever you want. But I still think as a global phenomenon in all sorts of different contexts, empahty as a trait is a better mindset than the other things you can frame it as. Be it a techniques of extracting money or whatever. My example of empathy here was mainly to link the discussion to the sex topic. I could just as much have turned it around and said that empathy from guys towards girls would be to hand them money after having sex for just 3 minutes if her pussy hurts. Then I suppose my comment would seem less selfish to the general critical sensationalist I suppose.

[QUOTE=NickTheG;2286605]Has there been life on earth before someone talked about "game theory"? Smiley.[/QUOTE]You don't need to talk about game theory for it to have existed since the beginning of life itself. You don't need to talk about a round earth for the earth to have been round since life started developing on the planet earth.

I also think everyone here understands the difference between sympathy and empathy. And we all hold empathy ethically in higher regard. As I have mentioned before, my take on a girl at an FKK is that she is something of a quasi psychologist we men pays to be with. And a good psychologist manages to display empathy. A not so good one may show more traces of sympathy. It is easier to turn this mental idea around towards the women due to the men coming in as customers, and paying them for their time.

This story has been posted here before by someone:

[URL]https://nypost.com/2017/11/11/sex-worker-with-over-10000-partners-reveals-what-men-really-want/[/URL]

[QUOTE=NickTheG;2286603]How come they can make it better than you? These are your illusions, your property, not theirs!

You desperately look for a prostitute to show you how to become victimized by your own illusions?

Nice try, talking about "genuine" empathy, in a brothel.[/QUOTE]Hello Herr G,

You are right to observe that the illusion is in the monger's head, his property. My analogy would be that this illusion is a sculpture brought out of a rock. The sculpture was already in the rock but it takes the sculptor to chisel out the shape from the rock. Without a sculptor, the rock just remains a rock. That is the role of a good WG. Empathy, sympathy and other -pathy's are her tools to bring this illusion to fruition. A monger falling in love with a WG is, to me, like a client commissioning a sculptor to create a beautiful stone figure for him, finds it so life like and falls in love. In the end, it is still just a sculpture, an illusion, not a real woman.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2286621]By definition, empathy means to feel what others feel. Some sociopaths just learn to mimic emotions. They understand what behaviors are rewardable and act accordingly. For instance, my neighbor could be a highly functioning sociopath. If my neighbor accidentally kills my dog with his car, he can apologize and extend his condolences, because he knows that is what is socially acceptable, but deep down he may not give a shit. Likewise a murderer may pretend to feel remorse simply to obtain a lighter sentence.

So if a WG pretends to be in love with her client, so that she can over the course of months put him into heavy financial debt--is she a sociopath? Not necessarily. Such WGs have the capacity to feel and share the pain of people in their personal lives, but with their lovesick clients, this conscience may not be present. In other words, the WG may view the client through a different lens. In the case of fly-in clients who spend all their free time in FKK clubs or locals who spend every weekend in FKK clubs, she can rationalize "This monger is a lonely man who has nobody in his life. He would fall in love with any woman who reciprocates his affection. If I don't take, advantage of him, someone else will. " She feels no remorse when asking for a sum that would put such a monger into debt, because in her mind, "he deserves it". She simply reasons "he desperately wants to fall in love and to be loved, so I am simply giving him what he asked for"..[/QUOTE]That is your best post of the year. And the best regarding empathy I suppose. Needs a repost, so here is the bump.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2286585]I agree, facts are to who girls choose to go, I remember a really funny Saturday evening at GT when so many guys were waiting for small German Lucifer and because she didn't forget what she discovered in her body nearly 1 year ago at Palace, she asked to the only guy who was not interested to repeat with her. I can add Kity, but Katea for sure would be happy to still get now my business. Guys talk and girls choose who they prefer to go with.[/QUOTE]What's your secret? Really. Is it the poetry? Secret moves in bed? Or one must be blessed with a 0.5 m cock to have your skills with prostitutes?

I know that the USA doesn't have FKK clubs and that sex work is generally illegal outside Nevada I think but obviously Americans must have paid for sex just like anyone else. Assuming money isn't a factor (if an American can fly to Germany for sex then he can afford to pay for sexy at home too!) where do the middle class or professional classes get their paid sex from? Is it from escorts or sugar babies or girls from strip clubs. I'm not a member of the USA forum but I did have a quick look at the Las Vegas forum (since Vegas has an international reputation as the city of sin!) but some of the pictures of the street girls there which some posted were 5's at best (wouldn't do them for free) so where do American guys go in Vegas (or elsewhere) to get the 8's, 9's, 10's without leaving the USA?

Because with high rollers in a place like Vegas you'the think there'the be tons of beautiful girls available right? Say I had a budget of 1000 $ - 2000 $ per day for girls, what kind of paid pussy could I get in Vegas? (This isn't in the USA forum as I'm not a member there). Can you get 9's and 10's in the USA for sex work? I'm sure you can but what will it cost you and how do you go about it? (I'm excluding Sugar Babies as I've done that last time I was in the USA). How would an average girl at Sharks or Oase compare with an average girl in Vegas?

All this talk of empathy and sympathy. Who gives a damn? Does she take it nuts deep up the butt hole and receive cum shots to the forehead? That's what we want to know! Hahaha! Shots, shots, shots, shots! LOLOLOL!

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2286585]I agree, facts are to who girls choose to go, I remember a really funny Saturday evening at GT when so many guys were waiting for small German Lucifer and because she didn't forget what she discovered in her body nearly 1 year ago at Palace, she asked to the only guy who was not interested to repeat with her.
I can add to your list : Kity and Katea who for sure would be happy to still get now my business , when she is smiling each time . Guys talk and girls choose who they prefer to go with.[/QUOTE]Pistons, had same experience than you with same, and not only one, jealousy is international disease increasing in FKK land, when so easy to be efficient with skill and sport, rather than only talking.

Hello Sir,

Vegas is a hit and miss. Since you said you know SBs, I will exclude those. I have spent anywhere from $250 to as much as $1200 in Vegas, the latter amount for porn stars and other very high end and obviously a small percent of my total sessions in Vegas. I have also had some luck convincing strippers at a couple of local joints like Spearmint to join me for relatively high amounts but they also need a bit of work and will not go with everyone.

There are a few brothels in driving distance of Vegas which are legal but not good. I prefer the ones closer to Reno and if you can go to Europe even better.

US tends be a mix and not a blackhole as some people imagine. Use discretion, spend some time and due diligence, you can obtain decent paid sex.

Empathy. TheCane humorously makes the point which I would make. I argued that empathy is a great asset for a working girl, from her own utilitarian standpoint, but, however much empathy she has, her job is to make money. So, she wants to make money, and we want sex (or whatever we seek). TheCane reminds us of this very appropriately.

As McAdonis says, empathy is not the same as pretending to have empathy (often a skilled con person can appear to be empathetic). In general I go along with Pistons that empathy is a positive.

Nick, you assume that empathy means a total transference of priorities to the object (of that empathy). False assumption. Having empathy for a person does not mean we give them loads of money and ignore our own lives. But, as Pistons suggests, maybe we might modify our behaviour: I have indeed been in a room with girls suffering from migraines and God knows what, and even extended them into long sessions so the girl can rest. But maybe that was just to boost my self-image as an empathetic guy LOL. Anyway, if we have empathy we need to use it for ourselves as well (maybe compassion is a better word).

No need to nail all this down to any firm conclusions, but if we mix up all our differing contributions, it is clear that for us, buying sex is not a brutal inhuman exploitation that so often the politicians suggest. Maybe there is more humanity in these posts than in some political parties.

If I have misrepresented anyone's views, apologies.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2286956]All this talk of empathy and sympathy. Who gives a damn? Does she take it nuts deep up the butt hole and receive cum shots to the forehead? That's what we want to know! Hahaha! Shots, shots, shots, shots! LOLOLOL![/QUOTE]You have a secret passage to the inside of my head. While writing my previous post about empathy, my main interest was not what I was writing but rather thinking which girls I was going to ge able to fuck how later this week. Including where I was going to cum. LOL.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2286628]You don't need to talk about game theory for it to have existed since the beginning of life itself. [/QUOTE]Wrong. The kinds of phenomena that game theory studies have been around since life itself. But game theory is the mathematical study of that phenomena. And game theory, that study, has been around for less than one hundred years. It was invented by John von Neumann in the 1940's.

Takedown,

1. Terrible session never means a session is wasted. It just wasn't worth a repeat. Maybe if someone doesn't get his blood flowing or is impotent, then a terrible session can mean it is wasted.

2. Excuses for possessive attitude leads nowhere no matter the reasoning. True or false, they don't matter. Without me going into my almost completely different observations of your descriptions. Word against word.

3. Are you chatting with KK? I reread my post and it is quite obvious. The 'nutjob' addition is added as an ironic example of all posters on ISG. It is called irony.

I go to FKK to have sex, to fulfill my lust knowing FKK is a brothel, but many mongers seems to be going there for different purposes also like communicating with opposite sex, practicing social skills and empathy is so far what I heard here, I think before feeling empathy we are part of this prostitution or pimping business model, so I think we are guilty from that stand point and one may argue that we give them money because we feel empathy, yes we do, after we stick our penis into her mouth, ass and pussy and make them lick our body LOL! I mean. We are the demand, that is why they supply, we are all in same boat here called prostitution business model.

I think we should not treat girls in bad manner or we may give respect to some of the FKK girls for remaining such a warm person after all these hard situations in their life because some of them are really warm hearted, but hey we exploit them also for their situation, we should not be self righteous because we are the cause of all this, without supply, they would not be there chasing their fast cash that we give in exchange of our need of putting our penis into their mouth, pussy and ass LOL.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2287053]Wrong. The kinds of phenomena that game theory studies have been around since life itself. But game theory is the mathematical study of that phenomena. And game theory, that study, has been around for less than one hundred years. It was invented by John von Neumann in the 1940's.[/QUOTE]OK wise guy. So I was talking about the phenomena. Not that I agree with your semantics, but if it makes you feel better.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2287048]Empathy. TheCane humorously makes the point which I would make. I argued that empathy is a great asset for a working girl, from her own utilitarian standpoint, but, however much empathy she has, her job is to make money. So, she wants to make money, and we want sex (or whatever we seek). TheCane reminds us of this very appropriately.

As McAdonis says, empathy is not the same as pretending to have empathy (often a skilled con person can appear to be empathetic). In general I go along with Pistons that empathy is a positive.

Nick, you assume that empathy means a total transference of priorities to the object (of that empathy). False assumption. Having empathy for a person does not mean we give them loads of money and ignore our own lives. But, as Pistons suggests, maybe we might modify our behaviour: I have indeed been in a room with girls suffering from migraines and God knows what, and even extended them into long sessions so the girl can rest. But maybe that was just to boost my self-image as an empathetic guy LOL. Anyway, if we have empathy we need to use it for ourselves as well (maybe compassion is a better word).

No need to nail all this down to any firm conclusions, but if we mix up all our differing contributions, it is clear that for us, buying sex is not a brutal inhuman exploitation that so often the politicians suggest. Maybe there is more humanity in these posts than in some political parties.

If I have misrepresented anyone's views, apologies.[/QUOTE]Mainly correct I suppose, but you missed my game theory point. Basically saying the same as McAdonis, although I had a slightly different take on it. McAdonis take on empathy as different from pretending to be empathy is in that sense negative. In the case you mention it to be, it is to make you feel better. So a positive. My theoretical take on it was neutral. As in game theory. And I believe (without any links if any smartass want to ask for it), that we instinctivly are good to other and show empathy in orders in order to obtain something more. Perhaps just subconsciously. Not necessarily allways negative, nor positive. It can be both or neighter. The world is very grey.

I did wrote that McAdoni's post was very good. It was to show that side of the discussion. It doesn't mean however that I agree with the psychological distinction of a sociopath more than it being just a theoretical idea. Yes, there might be some brain areas lighting up more with the so called sociopaths, but it can just as well be a cocktail of other more natural feelings that person has. Loners, people with messed up hormonal imbalances, or a whole range of environmental factors. 'Sociopathic tendencies' might be a better term, but it is still negative framing in the context of empathy. At least since she does consider this a job. And as someone who has worked in sales, being a good seller does not make you a sociopath. It just makes you a good seller. And there are several ways to reach that goal. Still, it is very good for a buyer to know of all the angles you can have on the empathy shown.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2286628]You don't need to talk about game theory for it to have existed since the beginning of life itself. [/QUOTE]Wallah Pistons, the problem with game theory is that it assumes human beings make rational choices. So it is not very good at predicting the behavior of 40-year old guys much less 20-year old girls.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2287058]Takedown,

1. Terrible session never means a session is wasted. It just wasn't worth a repeat. Maybe if someone doesn't get his blood flowing or is impotent, then a terrible session can mean it is wasted.

2. Excuses for possessive attitude leads nowhere no matter the reasoning. True or false, they don't matter. Without me going into my almost completely different observations of your descriptions. Word against word.

3. Are you chatting with KK? I reread my post and it is quite obvious. The 'nutjob' addition is added as an ironic example of all posters on ISG. It is called irony.[/QUOTE]1. Okay, whatever it takes to find peace after a loss. Still a terrible session that could have been avoided if one listens and heeds. It was a terrible sequence of events nonetheless, dropping another 75 on nothing. I have sympathy for you with that loss, although it was self inflicted and could have easily and predictably been avoided. What do I know? You were only warned at every step a mistake was being made. I suppose it is a blow to the ego to admit that.

2. Speaking of excuses, they are often made for oneself when rejected by others, worse when a WG finds you are not worth the time and money. It's even more sad when in order to deflect, one points fingers at anyone but himself. Regarding interjection, even other parties present said intruding was wrong. Blaming others is a poor substitute for self awareness.

3. Yes we spoke. In fact another party brought it to his attention. That makes at least 3 parties who read something other than what you claim you intended.

Bonus: Again, who deemed FKKs bastions of sharing pussy and not just another form of German brothel. Fake news for cultist nutjobs.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2286621]So if a WG pretends to be in love with her client, so that she can over the course of months put him into heavy financial debt--is she a sociopath? Not necessarily. Such WGs have the capacity to feel and share the pain of people in their personal lives, but with their lovesick clients, this conscience may not be present. [/QUOTE]Not 100% sure if you are saying these WGs don't have true empathy; but if so, I want to interject that empathy and conscience are not inclusive. One can have true empathy but still betray one's own conscience. Empathy merely means you can feel what the other person is feeling, but does not imply that you feel a moral obligation to them.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2287099]Wallah Pistons, the problem with game theory is that it assumes human beings make rational choices. So it is not very good at predicting the behavior of 40-year old guys much less 20-year old girls.[/QUOTE]True, it is not perfect. Especially when the big heads ideas conflict with the smaller ones. LOL. Or the two voices in the head of the little girl speaks. One angel and one demon. But I think there is more to the subconscious mind than most people think. But then we might have to start discussing what is free will. Does free will exist? We don't have any proof. But we know person A always takes a choice. And that choice is based on his judgement of previous impulses. Like a butterfly effect.

Edit: what I ment was: we don't know for sure how much of a choice we really have. If any. These are only theories. And far out philosophy, or physics. Determinism contradicts free will, and that is the only thing we can find out through a study.

https://cosmosmagazine.com/physics/does-free-will-exist-in-the-universe-that-would-be-a-no

(Takedown: maybe I subconsciously had a determined idea of testing your possessive trait there by moving up on a grey zone. And the test came out valid through an overreaction)

[QUOTE=Pistons;2286628]You don't need to talk about game theory for it to have existed since the beginning of life itself.[/QUOTE]Wow! What a relief! So what you tell us is: the pure existence of game theory itself is the first scientifically valid proof for the existence of God? Congratulations!

[QUOTE=NickTheG;2287490]Wow! What a relief! So what you tell us is: the pure existence of game theory itself is the first scientifically valid proof for the existence of God? Congratulations![/QUOTE]Nope, but some old people should lay off the coffee, and stop listening to old fairy tales of Gods and such.

Talking about psychic abilities and interactions is not easy. I would rate clairsentience as a highly developed level of empathy.

But here we are talking about a context, where sex is instrumentalized / commercialized and the will or need to spend / earn money is the dominating force. So I assume we are talking about lower levels of empathy.

And there is another thing, not uncommon in the context of prostitution. For example, if men or women suffer from borderline personality disorder, it is a well known phenomenon that they can have a radar-like sensitivity of what the other needs / wants. But this type of "getting into the head of another" is not what we normally understand as "empathy".

[QUOTE=Pistons;2287495]Nope, but some old people should lay off the coffee, and stop listening to old fairy tales of Gods and such.[/QUOTE]True, nowadays we yearn for new fairytales, told by modern priest-like figures!

I will just make a short summary instead:

2: Even if money was the main contributor, then name calling is always a negative impulse that doesn't help. The only intervention was the pushing. Everything else was at the highest manners and shouldn't be any problem at all if one knows how to talk to people. But maybe you are right that we need to learn social skills in FKK's. What others mean is irrelevant when it is word against word.

About the bonus question: The only cult we have here is the monogamous cult. I once read a book called 'Combating Cult Mind Control' by Steven Hassan. He points to 4 distinctions regarding what a cult is.

One is hierarchical leaders. A fully polygamous society with orgies everywhere should not have leaders. But a monogamous society always has. Plus monogamous societies have a monetary structured society also. Very hierarchical.

The second one is books where rules are displayed. Monogamy has this today through laws and where people bind themselves through written marriage pacts. Nothing of this sort in a complete polygamous society full of orgies all the time.

The third one is ceremonies: Lets just say monogamous people have weddings. And some also celebrate anniversaries when it comes to monogamy.

The fourth one is rituals: You put on engagement rings and marriage rings. Nothing of the sort in a polygamous orgie based model.

Result: Monogamy is a total 100% destructive cult according to Steven Hassan's book. It brainwashes people, and must be thus be combated to avoid extremism, wars and all sorts of bad things.

[QUOTE=NickTheG;2287511]True, nowadays we yearn for new fairytales, told by modern priest-like figures![/QUOTE]Here I am advocating determinism, and you keep talking about priests and gods. I think you have missed a few points, so a direct reply to you is useless.

But if you look at sales theory, and all these impulses we submit and receive, then that doesn't have to relate to clairsentience. It can all be subconscious. The same goes for the link between empathy, game theory and determinism.

Takedown: I wrote 2 long replies to that last comment you made there, but seems they won't allow it. I will just make a quick reply on the last bonus question you did: There is a book called "Combating Cult Mind Control" by Steven Hassan. And according to that one we can easily define monogamy as a 100% complete destructive cult. Polygamous orgies all the time societies without a hierarchy however is pretty much the opposite of a cult.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2287512]I will just make a short summary instead:

2: Even if money was the main contributor, then name calling is always a negative impulse that doesn't help. The only intervention was the pushing. Everything else was at the highest manners and shouldn't be any problem at all if one knows how to talk to people. But maybe you are right that we need to learn social skills in FKK's. What others mean is irrelevant when it is word against word.

About the bonus question: The only cult we have here is the monogamous cult. I once read a book called 'Combating Cult Mind Control' by Steven Hassan. He points to 4 distinctions regarding what a cult is..[/QUOTE]When a person's blood rushes so much to his pecker away from his head, his sense of hearing often shuts off. Without blood, he cannot hear another person's request to back off. Like a dog that doesn't listen, sometimes you have to get that dog back in line by means that lets him know that you're serious.

It's funny that you say that opinions of others do not matter. That's exactly how court arbitration works. Word against word, and a third party determines whose version is more plausible. Apparently it was was made clear but not to your liking so the only option left is to vent frustrations on ISG.

Try as you might, when it's practiced by the majority of non-nutjobs, it's called culture not a cult. I know, same root words. I can see why that can be confusing.

To summarize, Monogamy is our culture. Polygamy is a cult.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2286551] I hope you can take it as something to improve on instead of as an insult, is to be less possessive over the girls you like in an FKK. Be it either Carla (Oase) telling her other customers are idiots and then she avoids him right after.[/QUOTE]Still the most troubling accusation of all, a purely constructed scenario that has yet to be explained. I know we can live out fantasies in FKKs but they are usually about sexual activities with women. Accusing other men of things to explain rejection is very revealing of personal character. I would feel bad if rejected by a WG, but my first thought would be "what am [B]I[/B] doing to cause the person to feel this way about me," not blaming it on others.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2287723]Still the most troubling accusation of all, a purely constructed scenario that has yet to be explained. I know we can live out fantasies in FKKs but they are usually about sexual activities with women. Accusing other men of things to explain rejection is very revealing of personal character. I would feel bad if rejected by a WG, but my first thought would be "what am [B]I[/B] doing to cause the person to feel this way about me," not blaming it on others.[/QUOTE]When everyone thinks like you, upselling reaches new levels. Because one would rather pay 200 euro for a 3-some instead of holding ones ground. Still calling another guy an idiot is silly, and a negative impulse. That was the point I made. Nothing more, even if you try to derail it.

When it comes to the dog argument, that person just finnished a room and hormones were all dead. While other people hearing his side side of the story just shook their heads in disbelief. But possessiveness is when someone cannot stand another person talking to a girl he considers to have ownership over, when being at a distance. Which is quite the mad idea in an FKK. Quite a big reason for many girls ending relationships with men nowadays is possessive traits like the guy freaking out if his girl talks to other men, according to a female friend of mine who works at a psychology firm.

Polygamy may be a cult, as that is one man having several wives. But a many to many (think like a database) polygamous structured society may not have to be one. I thought we were over this semantics discussion though.

As there are no such things as rituals, ceremonies, hierarchies nor holy / legal books (the defining characteristics of a cult) describing full out polyagous orgies. Only ones lassiez faire natural sexual ways. So I find it hard to agree with your cult description on what I have talked about here.

You do have a good point regarding culture having cult as a root word though. Every culture is cultist. And maybe that is why the world leaders (the people behind the politicians who actually have brains) are trying to fend off cultures, and melt them all together in a quasi multicultural environment. Because of all the hatred and 'racism' we see when cultures clash. The clash of separate warring destructive cults.

But ofcourse, unless people try to look outside the box, conflics will go on, and in 100 years or so, some lunatic crazed brainwashed cultural cultist will blow up a nuke where our families live.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2287099]Wallah Pistons, the problem with game theory is that it assumes human beings make rational choices. So it is not very good at predicting the behavior of 40-year old guys much less 20-year old girls.[/QUOTE]

Game theory is not in the business of predicting human behavior per se. It is merely the (mathematical) analysis of competitive situations in principle, and typically the derivation of optimal strategies.

But it turns out that even animals other than humans will often behave in ways that game theory would judge as being optimal or highly optimized. The fact that animals without man's overgrown prefrontal cortex will, nevertheless, tend towards optimal behavior implies that behavior is innate rather than learned or deduced. I. e. It may have little to do with "rationality" and much more to do with a response to evolutionary pressure.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2284732]Well, only in today's societal context is this true. Change certain basic criteria, and you can have a paradigm change. It won't be exactly like in an FKK, but the world outside of the sandbox can move towards it. Future technology can be the cause of such paradigm changes.[/QUOTE]When the robots take all the jobs, a lot more of us guys will have nothing to do except spend our time in FKKs and similar environments. And women will have no jobs either, except FKK jobs. So much for the diehard monogamists. There will be a lot more drugs too.

Some will hate the laziness of it all. But it's better than people just hanging out on the streets starting fights.

Oh brave new world! Better get used to it.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2287882]When the robots take all the jobs, a lot more of us guys will have nothing to do except spend our time in FKKs and similar environments. And women will have no jobs either, except FKK jobs. So much for the diehard monogamists. There will be a lot more drugs too.

Some will hate the laziness of it all. But it's better than people just hanging out on the streets starting fights.

Oh brave new world! Better get used to it.[/QUOTE]Very true! But is it hard to predict what people will do with their spare time. And there will probably be bonuses going out to innovative people who can do what robots still cannot do.

Travelling will probably go through the roof. But it is hard to say if people will still waste hundred of hours playing computer games, or if sports, fitness and gym will be the new deal. You see a lot of rich people these days. Even computer geeks spending 10+ hours at the gym every week. 15 years ago that was an oxymoron.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2287869]Game theory is not in the business of predicting human behavior per se. It is merely the (mathematical) analysis of competitive situations in principle, and typically the derivation of optimal strategies.

But it turns out that even animals other than humans will often behave in ways that game theory would judge as being optimal or highly optimized. The fact that animals without man's overgrown prefrontal cortex will, nevertheless, tend towards optimal behavior implies that behavior is innate rather than learned or deduced. I. e. It may have little to do with "rationality" and much more to do with a response to evolutionary pressure.[/QUOTE]I am not sure if you are arguing against my stance here, or adding to it. Since you are mirroring what I said and linked to. Just using different words. What you describe is basically determinism.

After plenty of visits to 4 clubs I have noticed that only Artemis does accept entrance payment with debit or credit card and gives a receipt for that.

All other clubs not only ask for cash only but they never give me a receipt. I once asked for a receipt and they gave me a piece of paper which was not a receipt.

So just look at the title of the topic and figure.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2287882]When the robots take all the jobs, a lot more of us guys will have nothing to do except spend our time in FKKs and similar environments. And women will have no jobs either, except FKK jobs. So much for the diehard monogamists. There will be a lot more drugs too.

Some will hate the laziness of it all. But it's better than people just hanging out on the streets starting fights.

Oh brave new world! Better get used to it.[/QUOTE]Interesting with all the talk of being replaced by robots, and yet you think Sauna Clubs will be the last place you will find women working. In October 2018 I read an article about a brothel in Houston Texas that was met with resistance. This was nothing unusual, except for the fact that the providers were robots, designed for the purpose of providing pleasure.

Interestingly, in the last 15 days, I read a similar article about robots replacing humans I the work force. In this article, the projected survivors were finding alternative activities to maintain a healthy lifestyle. As for me, I hope that the rise of the robots is slow enough that Sauna Clubs are still using real women to provide pleasure during the duration of my active hobbying.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2287882]When the robots take all the jobs, a lot more of us guys will have nothing to do except spend our time in FKKs and similar environments. And women will have no jobs either, except FKK jobs. So much for the diehard monogamists. There will be a lot more drugs too.

Some will hate the laziness of it all. But it's better than people just hanging out on the streets starting fights.

Oh brave new world! Better get used to it.[/QUOTE]Wait a second, wait a second! Like Mr. Ho pointed out a long time ago, the robots will be taking over at the FKK clubs too! So that means not even jobs at the FKKs for the girls either! Times will be so hard, pimps will be laying off tutes! Ahahahaha! Well, at least the FKK robotic tutes can be programmed to provide top-notch service without fail every single time! LOL!

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2287882]When the robots take all the jobs, a lot more of us guys will have nothing to do except spend our time in FKKs and similar environments. And women will have no jobs either, except FKK jobs. So much for the diehard monogamists. There will be a lot more drugs too.

Some will hate the laziness of it all. But it's better than people just hanging out on the streets starting fights.

Oh brave new world! Better get used to it.[/QUOTE]There may be basic income system installed to some society in certain part of the world. Though at the moment more against than for, but if it goes through, then we mongers may face problem.

I encourage anyone who wants to do a threesome with Adele and Carla at Oase to do so. They are great together. Please don't let people of lesser means discourage you, especially if it is your own choice to do so. Carla has a lot of regulars so she doesn't need the 50 euro guys, good for her. The good thing is she will still give good service for club rate at 100 euro for 1 hour to guys who don't creep her out.

I know a really old but very clever and sprightly brothel madam, in her 80's in Berlin. She has seen it all and we made friends. Her summary is this: the top earning and popular girls are actresses who adapt to the client. Their customers tell lots of stories as well. It is fantasy land. Girls do it for money or other advantages alone with few exceptions. Empathy, manipulation, whatever, just like a master salesman or con artist, they tailor the message to whatever the occasion demands. The phone sex lines are the pinnacle of this chameleon type skill. If I was a female, I'd learn it fast as my income depends on it , and most girls have trait this bred in and reinforced in their socialization. They "Daaaaaaad" warning of teenager girls shows their innate social skills .

Men by contrast are a combination of an ancient DNA programmed urge of impregnating pretty and healthy young things before starvation or a lion eats the caveman for dinner and / or having their egos stroked. Just as dogs are bred for friendliness, we now know that Williams-Beuren type genes are at play. Our illusion of free will is mostly just that. FKK's are sexual disneyland for men. We know Disneyland and operas and movies are temporary fun. Don't over analyze. It is the human condition. Enjoy, because life is short and boners tend become less frequent and strong as time marches on.

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2288155]I know a really old but very clever and sprightly brothel madam, in her 80's in Berlin. She has seen it all and we made friends. Her summary is this: the top earning and popular girls are actresses who adapt to the client. Their customers tell lots of stories as well. It is fantasy land. Girls do it for money or other advantages alone with few exceptions. Empathy, manipulation, whatever, just like a master salesman or con artist, they tailor the message to whatever the occasion demands. The phone sex lines are the pinnacle of this chameleon type skill. If I was a female, I'd learn it fast as my income depends on it , and most girls have trait this bred in and reinforced in their socialization. They "Daaaaaaad" warning of teenager girls shows their innate social skills .

Men by contrast are a combination of an ancient DNA programmed urge of impregnating pretty and healthy young things before starvation or a lion eats the caveman for dinner and / or having their egos stroked. Just as dogs are bred for friendliness, we now know that Williams-Beuren type genes are at play. Our illusion of free will is mostly just that. FKK's are sexual disneyland for men. We know Disneyland and operas and movies are temporary fun. Don't over analyze. It is the human condition. Enjoy, because life is short and boners tend become less frequent and strong as time marches on.[/QUOTE]Very well said and spot on. As for your last sentence, let us hope that science world will come up with even better and better medicine to that male law of physiology as we move into the future.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2288056]I encourage anyone who wants to do a threesome with Adele and Carla at Oase to do so. They are great together. Please don't let people of lesser means discourage you, especially if it is your own choice to do so. Carla has a lot of regulars so she doesn't need the 50 euro guys, good for her. The good thing is she will still give good service for club rate at 100 euro for 1 hour to guys who don't creep her out.[/QUOTE]Oh I am sure it was great. Carla especially is a nice girl in the room.

And now I have a little fairy tale I want to share:

Once upon a time there was a man named Willy. A few times a year he left the elven shores of Amfemia, and travelled to the lands of Belgium and The Netherlands. He loved Belgium especially since there they made the best chocolate in the world. Willy was on a budget. He stayed three days, and aside from travelling cost in his Zeppelin, which was mainly just helium he processed himself for free, his budget was 650 euro. On day one Willy was brings 250 e with him into his favourite chocolate factory, Wonka's Fantasyland. He spends 50 e on entry, and then notice a brand called Jasmine. Jasmine only goes to the room to serve her white strawberry flavoured chocolate if you also take Petra's dark apple flavour, for a gastronomical threesome. Total cost is 200 euro. Willy is out of money after 1 hour in the club. Later Carla comes over with her special guarana flavoured chocolate pie with a cherry on top. But Willy is out of luck. His wallet is empty. He takes his jacket on and leaves Wonka's fantasyland. He later goes to Acapulco or Finca Erotica since there he can hold a tighter budget and spends 400 e in total over 2 full days and 7 rooms total, doing only minimum priced rooms on cheaper servings. 42% of his budget goes to the brands at Wonka, and 58% of his budget goes to Aca / Finca. Two or three years ago Willy could enter Wonka's chocolate factory and stay for three days. Paying 650 euro, or using 100% of his budget on his favourite Belgian chocolate instead of driving to the Netherlands to get second rate chocolate he chooses to pay less for because the sugar content is different and he doesn't want the workers at Wonka's chocolate factory to know he is giving money to other clubs. Willy doesn't get to taste all the servings at Wonka's chocolate factory. Wonka simply just overpriced themselves. Willy later falls in love with a dutch chocolate brand at a place called Samya. Samya has a lower price for their standard chocolate, but since Willy's budget is limited, it allows him to spend more time there as opposed to at Wonka's Fantasyland. After a few more visits, Willy starts using 150 euro per serving of his favourite dutch chocolate at Samya, and takes his favourite dutch Samya chocolate with him to Amsterdam to buy herbal candy canes for Valentines day. He wants to smoke the candy canes while the chocolate melts on his tongue. But now it all started to taste so sweet, and he remembered the other chocolate brands at good ol Wonka's. So he takes a stroll in the park of Wank instead while dreaming of all the different flavoures out there in the world, and times that went past. Willy is still out there somewhere. If you look to the sky, his zeppelin is stuck in the sky as a starsign, just behind the starsign Virgin. I am sure you can all see it if you look carefully.

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2287952]In October 2018 I read an article about a brothel in Houston Texas that was met with resistance. This was nothing unusual, except for the fact that the providers were robots, designed for the purpose of providing pleasure.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=TheCane;2287955]Wait a second, wait a second! Like Mr. Ho pointed out a long time ago, the robots will be taking over at the FKK clubs too! So that means not even jobs at the FKKs for the girls either! Times will be so hard, pimps will be laying off tutes! Ahahahaha! Well, at least the FKK robotic tutes can be programmed to provide top-notch service without fail every single time! LOL![/QUOTE]Ya lahwy, FKK girls are already 5% silicon by composition, how long before they are 100% silicon? And will the robot brains be located in their boobs to save on materials and provide redundancy against damage? Two brains are better than one! But what happens if the boobs disagree about a guy? And do they get to charge for a threesome?

Sadly, we forum posters will be even easier to replace. There is already a scary metal man called GPT-2 that uses a principle called "predictive text" to churn out stuff based on a seed sentence. For example, you might input "FKKs are just a fantasy world for entitled dorks," and from that alone it could generate all the posts of Takedown at the astounding rate of 10,000 lines a second. Where does that leave us humans? The boffins are refusing to let their invention out of their lab. Just imagine all the millions of flack-like jobs that would be lost overnight.

Still the writing is on the wall (or console rather) for us kibitzers. Soon on this thread it will just be bots debating the relative merits of Adele and Carla, who will themselves be robots. Something will have been lost, though I'm not sure what to call it. Romance? Imagination? A working uterus?

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2288210]Ya lahwy, FKK girls are already 5% silicon by composition, how long before they are 100% silicon? And will the robot brains be located in their boobs to save on materials and provide redundancy against damage? Two brains are better than one! But what happens if the boobs disagree about a guy? And do they get to charge for a threesome?[/QUOTE]Actually I think the main problem with sex dolls / robots these days (from what I read. LOL) is that there is too much silicon. If they want to break through on my market, they need real human skin. But I also read a story about scientists now growing real human skin on robots. So who knows? Perhaps just 50% silicone.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2287955]Wait a second, wait a second! Like Mr. Ho pointed out a long time ago, the robots will be taking over at the FKK clubs too! So that means not even jobs at the FKKs for the girls either! Times will be so hard, pimps will be laying off tutes! Ahahahaha! Well, at least the FKK robotic tutes can be programmed to provide top-notch service without fail every single time! LOL![/QUOTE]I think most of us won't get to see the sex robots as it wishes to be in our life time, but it is becoming more real and real as we advance into the future, then I wonder what will happen to so called oldest profession in the human history called prostitution. I think organic real human prostitutes will be the most expensive than robot prostitutes, so the tendency to up sell by prostitutes will even intensify and multiply as we advance into the future.

That said, maybe, now is the time when we mongers are living among the last decades of best organic human prostitutes for such a reasonable cost. Or Robot organic prostitutes will have better technique and better pussy than human prostitutes at one point in future, well for you better anal LOL! Then physical side can be more satisfying with robot prostitutes at one point in future than human prostitutes. Mental side is ignored though because I always enjoy this feeling of fucking young beauty at her best ripe season of her life.

I do not think we will live to see such a evolution though, it will take time because for safety reason, we do not want sex robot going crashing down or going crazy once our dick is inside her? LOL.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2287945]After plenty of visits to 4 clubs I have noticed that only Artemis does accept entrance payment with debit or credit card and gives a receipt for that.

All other clubs not only ask for cash only but they never give me a receipt. I once asked for a receipt and they gave me a piece of paper which was not a receipt.

So just look at the title of the topic and figure.[/QUOTE]I buy 12 time card in Artemis also using credit card and back then there was no proper receipt beside the one I sign, which one can barely see the number due to weak ink.

However, Artemis has been busted with cops rather recently and one of the main reason was for tax. Kennan was arrested and his brother I think was also arrested, but let go after with almost free of major charge I think. Anyways since then Artemis also lost control over girls and comparison to before girls run that club. I imagine they are scared of same happening again, so Artemis is more careful.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2288210]Soon on this thread it will just be bots debating the relative merits of Adele and Carla, who will themselves be robots. [/QUOTE]Balls have zero to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2288056]I encourage anyone who wants to do a threesome with Adele and Carla at Oase to do so. They are great together. Please don't let people of lesser means discourage you, especially if it is your own choice to do so. Carla has a lot of regulars so she doesn't need the 50 euro guys, good for her. The good thing is she will still give good service for club rate at 100 euro for 1 hour to guys who don't creep her out.[/QUOTE]Where these two girls working in Palace?

[QUOTE=MrHo;2288266]I buy 12 time card in Artemis also using credit card and back then there was no proper receipt beside the one I sign, which one can barely see the number due to weak ink.

However, Artemis has been busted with cops rather recently and one of the main reason was for tax. Kennan was arrested and his brother I think was also arrested, but let go after with almost free of major charge I think. Anyways since then Artemis also lost control over girls and comparison to before girls run that club. I imagine they are scared of same happening again, so Artemis is more careful.[/QUOTE]Exactly!

I was thinking the same and I am sure this is the reason Artemis is more careful with tax issues.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2288299]Where these two girls working in Palace?[/QUOTE]Adela, Carla, Estefania work at land of upselling Oase. On 3 some girls work less.

While money is king in FKK's, charisma and a pretty face plays a role too. It helps to have all three. I get it, when someone has none of those things, inferiority complexes arise.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2288209]Oh I am sure it was great. Carla especially is a nice girl in the room.

And now I have a little fairy tale I want to share:[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2288155] Her summary is this: the top earning and popular girls are actresses who adapt to the client.[/QUOTE]Salaam Biggus Dickus. I was recently playing hide the sausage with a red hot redhead who is training to become an actress. She was one of my best ever. Then again, maybe she was only telling me she studied theater because she realized that was what I wanted to hear. This is also a form of [I]predictive text[/I].

If you see a girl often she will get better and better at fitting herself around you, like a cloak made of stories. After she becomes your wife, she's like a suit you get into in the morning. But then one day you discover some folds in the fabric that weren't there before. You exclaim, "Who's been wearing my suit?" -- It used to fit so well.

See also the story "Fury" by Alastair Reynolds about space suits that adapt to people's movements and words so well that they [I]accrete intelligence[/I] and carry on thousands of years after their owners have died inside them.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2288299]Where these two girls working in Palace?[/QUOTE]Nah, Oase. I actually think Carla individually is the best. Adele is fun with a pretty face. Doing them together was good because they are good friends. Selfies, mirrors, double BJs. It was like fucking sorority sisters.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2288611]Salaam Biggus Dickus. I was recently playing hide the sausage with a red hot redhead who is training to become an actress. She was one of my best ever. Then again, maybe she was only telling me she studied theater because she realized that was what I wanted to hear. This is also a form of [I]predictive text[/I].

If you see a girl often she will get better and better at fitting herself around you, like a cloak made of stories. After she becomes your wife, she's like a suit you get into in the morning. But then one day you discover some folds in the fabric that weren't there before. You exclaim, "Who's been wearing my suit?" -- It used to fit so well.

See also the story "Fury" by Alastair Reynolds about space suits that adapt to people's movements and words so well that they [I]accrete intelligence[/I] and carry on thousands of years after their owners have died inside them.[/QUOTE]Just like Biggus Dickus wife namechanging into Incontinentia Buttocks?

In fighting, there is an old term, fighting or punching above your weight. This term was used to describe a standout fighter with the skills to defeat opponents, even those who are bigger and appear much stronger.

I've heard a lot of feedback that lineups have slipped the last few years. I agree that there appears to be a lot less new, super attractive ladies in the Sauna Clubs. I think the reality is that technology allows near realtime reporting on many forums. This let's us keep track of comings and goings at the clubs on a much closer level, even when we find ourselves half way around the world. Secondly, it seems a lot of the prostitutes are staying in the business longer. Thirdly, with the assistance of ED medications the average age of male clients is creeping higher, and to a man I his 70's and 80's a 35 year old prostitute still looks pretty good. A lot of these old guys on pension have nothing but time and money to burn.

Regardless of all this, most of the women in a SC are well above the standards that most of the Male clients could pull at a night club. For this reason, I'm happy to stay in the SC scene with the women others complain about being low level wit prostitute behavior. Without them, would be a lot less happy.

With Euro dollar approaching 1.13, even 1.12 on some days, it is a good time for our American friends to be making a trek down to the lands of pleasure in Germany for a quick anal bang, perhaps?

A year ago, the exchange was at 1.25. If you are an American, your dollar will fetch almost 10% more Euros today.

Moreover, the growth expectation in Eurolands is again getting worse (which is one of the main reasons that drove up the exchange rate in favor of dollar). Perhaps a few more girls will enter these clubs as they can't find meaningful job prospects outside the club.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2287145]Not 100% sure if you are saying these WGs don't have true empathy; but if so, I want to interject that empathy and conscience are not inclusive. One can have true empathy but still betray one's own conscience. Empathy merely means you can feel what the other person is feeling, but does not imply that you feel a moral obligation to them.[/QUOTE]WGs who are able to inflict extreme financial and emotional pain onto their victim, but still able to fall asleep at night, fall into one or more of these categories: (1) sociopath who does not feel true empathy and actually derives joy from hurting others (2) feels true empathy but uses "neutralization techniques" to clear her conscience or (3) feels true empathy but lacks "conventional" morality. These points more or less come from authorities in the field of criminology, which I quote below for background reading.

Number of true sociopaths in general population are between 1-3 percent. I suspect that percentage might be slightly higher with con-artists, but short answer to your question is that I believe most WGs who push the illusion too far to maximize their own financial gain fall under categories two and three above. That said not all WGs want to be con-artists, or they set their own limits. When the self-deception no longer assuages their guilt, they may sever the relationship with the lovesick monger. This allows them to say "I hustled him, but at least I did not financially cripple him, so I am still a moral person". This is no different than say a robber who breaks into homes, steals all the electronics and jewerlry, but leaves the kid's video game system and family dog.

Regarding neutralization techniques, it was coined back in the 1950's. Most people have a concept of an "ideal self" that generally is influenced by societal norms. When any behavior deviates from this ideal self, self-deception kicks in to assuage one's guilt. Let's take soldiers for instance. Most people believe the act of killing another human is morally wrong (unless one is a sociopath / psychopath of course). But if one can be convinced that they did it for their religion, for their country, or for their family, this "barbaric" act becomes easier. As I mentioned before, finding ways to dehumanize the enemy also lowers inhibition. [URL]https://www.voa.org/moral-injury[/URL] [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techniques_of_neutralization[/URL].

Regarding unconventional sense of morality: this idea pertains to the Sub-Cultural Theory which attempts to explain why certain segments of society (I. E poor people) commit more crimes. Subcultures invert the values of mainstream society. Street-fights, robbery, and grafitti in poorer communities are considered praiseworthy. For a street kid say in Brazil or Colombia, these acts confer status from their peer group. These poor people often feel the system is stacked against them, and legitimate avenues to "success" are not available to them, and thus robbing a fat-white tourist from a foreign country is permissible. Success is defined differently, as is morality. [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subcultural_theory[/URL].

[QUOTE]
The direct person-to-person deception of another individual can involve utter ruthlessness. This may take such extreme forms as the person who takes a widow into his or her confidence and leaves her penniless. Offenders of this type may manifest a number of traits including lack of affection or empathy, lack of remorse and a general lack of conventional conscience.

Many con artists also seemed to have a misanthropic view of human nature and assumed that others were as scheming and dishonest as they were. There is no doubt that generating a dislike and lack of respect for the victim makes it easier to treat them badly. As one con man said, any people I dont like I can hustle better

They blame their victims for being stupid or deserving of their fate, they minimise the harmful consequences of their actions or they may simply display an arrogant indifference. They are also likely to believe that it is a dog-eat-dog world and everyone is out for number one.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/323c/bb963ebaf4f386fd97c3109fe4cb761b67fd.pdf

[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=CaneUppHosAss;2288775]With Euro dollar approaching 1.13, even 1.12 on some days, it is a good time for our American friends to be making a trek down to the lands of pleasure in Germany for a quick anal bang, perhaps?

A year ago, the exchange was at 1.25. If you are an American, your dollar will fetch almost 10% more Euros today.

Moreover, the growth expectation in Eurolands is again getting worse (which is one of the main reasons that drove up the exchange rate in favor of dollar). Perhaps a few more girls will enter these clubs as they can't find meaningful job prospects outside the club.[/QUOTE]If you had written this post 9 months ago, I would have agreed. But right now it seems as if the world is heading towards a new financial crisis. Germany just barely avoided a 2nd quarter in a row with a negative GDP growth rate. Credit card loans in USA is now at about 7000 usd per household compared to 6000 early last year. In China, the total debt per GDP is even higher than in USA and Japan now, and empty houses and empty everything is going to put a sudden stop this illusion of growth in our ponzi scheme world economy before the year is over.

100% sure. Unless FED reverts their stance, and actually reduces interest rates before June, and rises them as foretold, I am willing to bet anyone here 500 euro that we will see a financial crisis in 2019. Be it in China, US or Europe. Most likely starting in China before spreading fast like a house of cards.

[QUOTE=CaneUppHosAss;2288775]Moreover, the growth expectation in Eurolands is again getting worse (which is one of the main reasons that drove up the exchange rate in favor of dollar). Perhaps a few more girls will enter these clubs as they can't find meaningful job prospects outside the club.[/QUOTE]There is an old saying: Once taxi drivers starts giving out advice regarding the stock market, it is a good time to sell!

The moral is that when normal people start believing in growth, the next bust is very near! I believe thus we are approaching that point very rapidly now. But perhaps not going to see the big burst before in the 2nd half of the year.

[blue]Gentlemen,

The purpose of this Forum is to provide for the exchange of information between Men on the subject of finding Women for Sex. The ladies probably have their Forum to discuss men.

Let's get back to the subject.

Thank You,

Jackson[/blue]

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2288839]WGs who are able to inflict extreme financial and emotional pain onto their victim, but still able to fall asleep at night, fall into one or more of these categories: (1) sociopath who does not feel true empathy and actually derives joy from hurting others (2) feels true empathy but uses "neutralization techniques" to clear her conscience or (3) feels true empathy but lacks "conventional" morality. These points more or less come from authorities in the field of criminology, which I quote below for background reading.[/QUOTE]Right. You are explaining the reasoning behind the ability to separate empathy and actions exemplary of traditional morality. So these WGs are capable of truly relating to and empathizing with the monger. Some of them just have moral codes that allow them to exploit a man's lust or loneliness.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2288859]If you had written this post 9 months ago, I would have agreed. But right now it seems as if the world is heading towards a new financial crisis. Germany just barely avoided a 2nd quarter in a row with a negative GDP growth rate. Credit card loans in USA is now at about 7000 usd per household compared to 6000 early last year. In China, the total debt per GDP is even higher than in USA and Japan now, and empty houses and empty everything is going to put a sudden stop this illusion of growth in our ponzi scheme world economy before the year is over.

100% sure. Unless FED reverts their stance, and actually reduces interest rates before June, and rises them as foretold, I am willing to bet anyone here 500 euro that we will see a financial crisis in 2019. Be it in China, US or Europe. Most likely starting in China before spreading fast like a house of cards.[/QUOTE]I have an interesting perspective on this, having lived in Europe long enough to be crushed a couple times by the exchange rate fluctuations. Look back to 2003, early 2004 and you see a near 1-1 rate. Then with elections, wars, elections, etc. You can see the US economy falling against other countries. For a government, an easy way to stimulate the economy was to suppress the value of the USA dollar. With nearly 1.5 to 1 rates during the Obama presidency foreign countries were spending heavily in the US. Trump has done what he pledged, put the USA first. His negotiations on trade deals have often been hard to swallow, but the have stimulated the markets in some ways, allowing interest rates and exchange rates to correct, or regress, depending on your perspective. I think they are in the current neighborhood until Rump is no longer president and the president who follows him start rescinding the Trump Legislation and Executive Orders.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2288604]While money is king in FKK's, charisma and a pretty face plays a role too. It helps to have all three. I get it, when someone has none of those things, inferiority complexes arise.[/QUOTE]So basically you are advocating for male facial transplants. Well I would advice against that in case you are considering it. You never know if you will end up even further in the uncanny valley, or if girls might walk over to you due to looks and charisma. Better just sticking to your initial sentence and keep the money for the girls instead of the surgeons.

I have had, I think, a fairly high number of threesomes with various girls in a number of FKKs all over Germany (and one in Globe so far!) as well as one in Peru (non professionals). What are your favourite threesomes? My first ever 3 some was with Emel and a German girl at Palace. My last one was at Globe with Carmen and Bella. The most unexpected was with 2 girls in Peru (non pros); the most disappointing one was in Artemis last time I went there! I'm still not sure if a threesome is better than taking each of the girls separately but it is a male fantasy that never grows stale! The best ever was at Atmos when one of the girls licked my ass while her friend blew me!

It can be a good way of experiencing two girls quickly if one has a long list of targets. I want to try 3 girls next. That would be awesome.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2289236]So basically you are advocating for male facial transplants. Well I would advice against that in case you are considering it. You never know if you will end up even further in the uncanny valley, or if girls might walk over to you due to looks and charisma. Better just sticking to your initial sentence and keep the money for the girls instead of the surgeons.[/QUOTE]Original post really just applied to anyone who was having trouble with girls rejecting them, whether in cluns or real life. It's better than constructing false realities.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2289236]So basically you are advocating for male facial transplants. Well I would advice against that in case you are considering it. You never know if you will end up even further in the uncanny valley, or if girls might walk over to you due to looks and charisma. Better just sticking to your initial sentence and keep the money for the girls instead of the surgeons.[/QUOTE]Did I miss the facial transplant somewhere? I thought I read three attributes that can be of a benefit. I think it's more rewarding to work hard and increase your earnings rather than undergo surgery. Even an updated face doesn't mean a person would overcome limited social skills. It may also benefit to take a public speaking or confidence building course. But like a nice lady told me last night. Why bother with continuing this type of discussion, instead be happy and enjoy the company of a nice woman. Oh, here she comes now.

It's worth pointing out the importance of periodically stepping outside of the mongering and internet worlds. Staying only in these worlds seem to be pretty limiting to personality growth. The constant unearned "yes" heard from working girls inevitably warps one's reality of self. A little confidence is great but losing the reality check from real women creates a delusion of grandeur. Worse, when one is rejected from a WG, it may send one down a path of constructed realities.

Even if staying away from extended mongering trips, mongering abstinence at home also helps keep one grounded in reality and social interactions. Living isolated lives in Norwegian fishing villages, Japanese Manboos, or car camping in Audi wagons while mongering cannot be good for psychiatric health. In addition to removing the impetus for improving social skills, these isolated realities may even distract one from progressing up one's career to make more income or inhibit motivation for keeping up with health and physical appearance. Mongers who are in particular danger are childless men who have no true relationships to keep them grounded.

Obtaining a real date with a normal girl, even if she is 30 years old and 5 pounds overweight, can help to keep one in tune with reality. A normal holiday, seeing something new, allows one to experience reality and enrich one's existence. Some volunteer work or mission trips may even connect one to people in need, giving you a deeper purpose. Living in front of a computer screen at work only to return to a screen at home with intermittent visits to prostitutes is hardly a healthy existence. It would inevitably lead to the construction of false realities of the real world. I've witnessed these delusions first hand with some mongers. But I have faith that deep down there is a loneliness, a yearning for real human interaction. That loneliness that I sense is actually a glimmer of hope that there is some humanity left in the socially isolated monger.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2289236]So basically you are advocating for male facial transplants. Well I would advice against that in case you are considering it. You never know if you will end up even further in the uncanny valley, or if girls might walk over to you due to looks and charisma. Better just sticking to your initial sentence and keep the money for the girls instead of the surgeons.[/QUOTE]German Lucifer might be blind to some charisma, but one year later, even leaving our upselling kissing last room at Palace after not more than 15 mn, she forgot this, but didn't forget what she discovered before. I wonder if Adela Oase also feels this often? Sporty guys are sporty in bed and I enjoy so much to listen to pretty women body.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2289364] Sporty guys are sporty in bed and I enjoy so much to listen to pretty women body.[/QUOTE]Very true. One can have an orgasm lasting 40 seconds. The polar opposite of this sporty attitude is when one smokes too much, and cannot get it up. To me, any minute in room with a dead tower, is a minute wasted.

For example, smoking cannabis is a major problem in today's world as more and more countries legalize the herb. The resulted depression could lead to young adults seeking escapist routes, from internet games, to travelling far away to find friends long way away from home. Thankfully, there is a new term these days known as the global village where everyone can discuss these things over the internet. We can fly across half the world in one day, and have sex with people from other continents. It is a glorious time to be alive, but in order to enjoy, sports is crucial to heighten the senses. Otherwise, one could end up in a downward spiral.

[URL]https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/13/cannabis-smoking-in-teenage-years-linked-to-adulthood-depression[/URL]

I once had a friend who lost his mom to cancer, and had no near relative left. He grew weed at home, hated immigrants, was racist and usually played computer games in his spare time. Basically not giving a fuck, and told me about suicidal thoughts he had. He liked rap music, and his mind was like most rappers who rap about hate, crime and chaos.

Another guy I knew once was gay. He lived in a big city with over 5 million people. Had been rejected by several girls early in his life, and eventually turned gay to find comfort. He moved away from home early. Lived in a 2 million city (Copenhagen). It was too small for him since he was not able to hide away in the crowd. Then he moved to a 4.5 million city (Melbourne). Again just barely big enough. Maybe on the small side also. The 5 million city I met him in, he was going to move away from soon, to go back to Madrid which he did feel was large enough for him. And there he could easier hide away. Also being Spanish as he was.

Another friend of mine I used to do a lot of sports with when I was younger, such as snowboarding and skiing, has gone into extreme sports. Participated in weird ralleys with a funky car, or done paragliding at any opportunity he has off work as a programmer. He is single, and has no commitment to any children's.

The escapist idea of seeking distraction or relief from unpleasant realities is a global growing trend. One might coin the idea of a vacation, to essentially be escapism at its core. Even religions, with the belief in the illusion of free will, and the supernatural, is considered escapist at its core. In order for the poor to still have hope in an unpleasant reality.

An FKK is a form of escapist idea. But also it is a form of nutrition for the senses. The suicidal guy might find some sort of passionate relief. The gay guy might realize the difference between a cock and a pussy. And the adventurous guy may experience more senses than just the adrenal kicks of living on the edge of life and death.

As a response to McAdonis: Every seller has to sometimes battle with the ideas you project there. The ethical side of juggling empathy with the buyer as well as your own need to make an income. But this is like Takedown rightly points out, also a key reason to why the experienced seller is so good at empathy. But as soon as he gives in too much, and stops making excuses for why he takes the buyers money, he or she wants to quit. The grey lies have gone too far. A psychopath? Maybe. Sales psychology mentions this a lot, and this is why good sales companies usually have a psychologist to help them deal with this problem. I personally think it is just a problem with capitalism, and people should not have to do upselling. Both due to the buyer, and due to the sellers own well beings. Only incoming sales. Because this is usually just an issue with upsells. The only problem is just that it can be hard to make structures to streamline bundle sales across all fields of business. In an FKK however it shouldn't be too hard. But the legislators seems to do their best to try and make it hard. One sharks girl once came to me and felt a bit down once. She asked me for a room. I was just barely in the mood, but she had just heard me being a little annoyed at upselling. So she promised me she shouldn't try to upsell. During the entire room it felt like she had empathic problems with her conscious, and felt sad. And she mumbled at least twice that she wouldn't upsell. And that 50 was enough. It didn't sound like felt 50 was too little, but it was almost like if she felt a psychological relief of not having to do the upselling. The way I read her, she hated it as much, if not more than I did. (this is why I have proposed a slightly higher standard rate instead of upsells. But 100 is silly high considering entry fees etcon top).

Chongmal: You are right when it comes to stimulus and exchange rates. And the idea of it. But I don't think this has been up to Obama nor Trump. They are just randomly the president at certain times of history and works as useful puppets to the puppeteers above (fed etc).

The God gene hypothesis proposes that human spirituality is influenced by heredity and that a specific gene, called vesicular monoamine transporter 2 (VMAT2), predisposes humans towards spiritual or mystic experiences. The idea has been proposed by geneticist Dean Hamer in the 2004 book called The God Gene: How Faith is Hardwired into our Genes.

This transporter protein transports dopamine, serotoine, norepinephrine, epinephrine, and histamine into the vesicles, which release the neurotransmitters into synapses as chemical messages to postsynaptic neurons. In other words, the seeking out of these chemicals through drugs, extreme sports or escapist ways can increase ones tendencies into becoming an extremist cultist.

[URL]https://youtu.be/spw5nmUrpWA[/URL]

In 2017, a drug against this protein was cleared by the FDA. Basically verifying the idea altogether.

[URL]https://www.genengnews.com/topics/drug-discovery/fda-clears-neurocrines-vmat2-inhibitor-as-first-treatment-for-tardive-dyskinesia/[/URL]

In all of this talk, I believe sybarite has a good idea: Relax, and have sex!

(However, sex should be easy to obtain. And for everyone in this world, it is not always so. Thus causing chaos.).

[QUOTE=Takedown;2289362]Even if staying away from extended mongering trips, mongering abstinence at home also helps keep one grounded in reality and social interactions. Living isolated lives in Norwegian fishing villages, Japanese Manboos, or car camping in Audi wagons while mongering cannot be good for psychiatric health..[/QUOTE]So it's a good thing that I change cars every 2-3 months. I'm on the second one since camping in my Audi. I actually had a really nice conversation with the tall blonde at the Sports store when I bought my new winter kit. She looked like she had real woman behavior and it made me want to drink from her fountain of youth.

For me, I had this opportunity for an extended tour, so I took it. There are a lot of jealoused men out there, but I've managed to stay happy in my own life and only rarely, let my frustrations with one of the jeslousest guys go.

Don't forget, even prostitutes with the best professional behavior are real women. We may not like to see how they act with others, but we have to remember they are acting, if they are any good at their job. One of my favorites has a saying, "In my life there are two boxes, one for this work and one for outside this work. I'm the only thing in my life allowed to cross from on box to the other. " I like the honest approach she has. She will stay for pancake sessions but always tells men there is no chance to get into her Real Life Box if they have been in her Work Box.

As this is the lounge thread, and considering some FKK's have terrible smoke levels, one cannot be left without a worry regarding the health consequences this brings.

I have known three handicapped persons in my life.

The first one was a girl in my class at primary school. Her mother once was at the doctor just before my own mom had an appointment with the same doc. Right after this other mom came out of the doctors office and my mom went it, she (the doctor) was furious. She had been telling this other mom to stop smoking for months, and soon she would give birth. The baby girl had bad eye sight and had problems walking. She got teased a little at school. Especially for her glasses before every other kid in class got to see how little she actually could see. After that, the teasing stopped. At 20 years old, rumors had it she took suicide by overdose.

The second one had cancer and had lost all the hairs on his head when I went to school with him one year in high school. His parents both smoked like chimneys. He took his own life at age 23 after hanging himself.

The third one was a neighbour. Her mother was smoking heavily, and several other neighbours went over only to tell her to stop smoking several times. She didn't listen. The girl is now blind and has back problems. She is now 20 years old.

I can only assume this was mainly nicotine in all three cases. But at this moment cannabis is being legalized more and more places across the world. Because of liberalization. Well I would argue it isn't very liberalizing to our potential kids. Especially when there is this idea or group pressure. Just like with alcohol, there is the same pressure with smoking. Another idea is that you add charisma if you have something to occupy your fingers and hands with. Such as doing some magical tricks, or rolling a cigarette. On top of this, passive smoking can be equally dangerous in high enough dosages, and girls in FKK's sometimes keeps working even if they are 2 or 3 months pregnant. In an environment sometimes filled with smoke. If a girl manages to quit smoking while working in an FKK, I would salute her. Who cares if her ass grows slightly for a few months if she needs to eat a bit more during the transition? If somebody wants to have a baby, it matters fuck all. It is sad if girls needs to smoke in order to stay slim in these FKK's, while others have anorexia. Where are all the gym's to counterbalance this?

In my opinion, screw the retarded new legislation. Add a new requirement to the FKKs instead: supply the girls with gym membership, or build one on campus.

Had a long talk with anotherbBear about chemistry. My opinion is that it can exist, but is not an absolute full on or full off. Familiarity and respect can lead to a connection of varying levels. I'm not saying it's love, but it's something and can range from a little bit to more. I'm interested to hear the other thoughts on this.

Yeah I've car camped a bit these past couple of years. It's nice getting a new rental every so often to stretch out. But have you seen the Audi that someone lives in? It's often parked near LR or GT packed full of junk. I picture a homeless man sleeping in the front seat guarding all if his belongings and goes into the clubs to get a hot meal and a warm shower. With the prevalence of mental health issues in the homeless population, FKKs might be a good psychiatric service.

On that note, car camping can be done right or wrong. One guy I know is 6 ft tall but rents these little Volkswagen polos and sleeps in it. He looks ridiculous! Imagine a guy who looks like Frankenstein's monster jammed up in a toy car! I feel a little bad, he gets poor sleep and ends up sleeping in the clubs all day. When he wakes up at 7 pm, he looks even more ridiculous!

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2289577]So it's a good thing that I change cars every 2-3 months. I'm on the second one since camping in my Audi. I actually had a really nice conversation with the tall blonde at the Sports store when I bought my new winter kit. She looked like she had real woman behavior and it made me want to drink from her fountain of youth.

For me, I had this opportunity for an extended tour, so I took it. There are a lot of jealoused men out there, but I've managed to stay happy in my own life and only rarely, let my frustrations with one of the jeslousest guys go.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2289613]Had a long talk with anotherbBear about chemistry. My opinion is that it can exist, but is not an absolute full on or full off. Familiarity and respect can lead to a connection of varying levels. I'm not saying it's love, but it's something and can range from a little bit to more. I'm interested to hear the other thoughts on this.[/QUOTE]Wallah, Chongmal, one thing I notice when people talk about chemistry is that it is never about whether the guy likes the girl but always whether the girl likes the guy.

When the guy likes the girl, there is nothing mysterious about it, no need to talk about chemistry. It's because she has a young body, pretty face, etc. But as for her desires, well, she needs to wrap them in mystery and keep the guy guessing. It's got to be magic. Invisible pheromones floating through the air. Chemistry.

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2289577]One of my favorites has a saying, "In my life there are two boxes, one for this work and one for outside this work. I'm the only thing in my life allowed to cross from on box to the other. " I like the honest approach she has. She will stay for pancake sessions but always tells men there is no chance to get into her Real Life Box if they have been in her Work Box.[/QUOTE]Wow, this is what I call real woman philosophy.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2288839]WGs who are able to inflict extreme financial and emotional pain onto their victim, but still able to fall asleep at night, fall into one or more of these categories: (1) sociopath who does not feel true empathy and actually derives joy from hurting others (2) feels true empathy but uses "neutralization techniques" to clear her conscience or (3) feels true empathy but lacks "conventional" morality. These points more or less come from authorities in the field of criminology, which I quote below for background reading.[/QUOTE]It's worth pointing out that McAdonis usually links to sources that he has actually read. It's refreshing in a sea of half read articles and references to books and theories where one has simply read the synopsis. One of my professors in grad school used to always remind me that only fools and crooks attempt to pass familiarity for mastery.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2289723]Wallah, Chongmal, one thing I notice when people talk about chemistry is that it is never about whether the guy likes the girl but always whether the girl likes the guy.

When the guy likes the girl, there is nothing mysterious about it, no need to talk about chemistry. It's because she has a young body, pretty face, etc. But as for her desires, well, she needs to wrap them in mystery and keep the guy guessing. It's got to be magic. Invisible pheromones floating through the air. Chemistry.[/QUOTE]I always thought it was about when the guy likes (a feeble word for the sparks in the air and the racing heartbeat I am thinking of) the girl. I currently am finding a severe lack of it. As for the girl liking the guy, I always assume it is euros (even when the girl does like the guy), so, a girl just asked me to spend a day with her for free, I just turned it down as I assumed it was just bait, and thankfully, I felt no chemistry towards her.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2289723]Wallah, Chongmal, one thing I notice when people talk about chemistry is that it is never about whether the guy likes the girl but always whether the girl likes the guy.[/QUOTE]Your post reminds me when I was out there in the "legit" dating scene many moons ago. I went on a blind date with a woman who was known to not like anybody. She just never liked anybody who she was set up with. Not ever. So, we meet, and lo and behold she liked me! Wanted to keep seeing me, and all of her friends were shocked! My God, she actually liked a guy she met! This is great! Well, they were forgetting about one thing. They were forgetting about one somebody. Me! What about me and what I thought about her? Well, she was nice enough and all, but I had absolutely no physical attraction to her whatsoever. None. And the funny thing about it is that I think she thought she was kind of "Miss it". Well, not to me. I can't see somebody who I have no physical attraction to, and so that was that. And just like you wrote, all the focus was on whether not she liked me, and none on whether I liked her. So, the one time she liked the guy, turns out the guy didn't like her. Hey, I got feelings too LOL!

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2289577]Don't forget, even prostitutes with the best professional behavior are real women. We may not like to see how they act with others, but we have to remember they are acting, if they are any good at their job.[/QUOTE]So often here, people talk about finding a real woman or real feelings, of course in brothels. It is a bit like going to a zoo to see real wild animals.

They never talk about why mongers (real men?) find themselves constantly in brothels again.

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2289577]One of my favorites has a saying, "In my life there are two boxes, one for this work and one for outside this work. I'm the only thing in my life allowed to cross from on box to the other. " I like the honest approach she has. She will stay for pancake sessions but always tells men there is no chance to get into her Real Life Box if they have been in her Work Box.[/QUOTE]I feel so sorry for this two-box woman. The fragmentation of the human psyche to create boxed parts is one of the main goals actively pursued by neoliberalism.

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2289577]One of my favorites has a saying, "In my life there are two boxes, one for this work and one for outside this work. I'm the only thing in my life allowed to cross from on box to the other. " I like the honest approach she has. She will stay for pancake sessions but always tells men there is no chance to get into her Real Life Box if they have been in her Work Box.[/QUOTE]Sounds a lot like being friendzoned (except in reverse I guess). Good luck with that. Maybe you need to think outside the Box.

It's amazing how much Romanian girls have learnt from American Women without ever meeting them. They simply read what AWs have carved out in American guys' brains, and take their cue from that.

Once "chemistry" starts, and is allowed to continue, those who are involved in the process will be changed, forever.

For those who like to read, here is a great book by Nathan Schwartz-Salant:

[URL]https://www.amazon.de/Mystery-Human-Relationship-Alchemy-Transformation/dp/0415153891[/URL]

[QUOTE=NickTheG;2289758]So often here, people talk about finding a real woman or real feelings, of course in brothels. It is a bit like going to a zoo to see real wild animals.

They never talk about why mongers (real men?) find themselves constantly in brothels again.

I feel so sorry for this two-box woman. The fragmentation of the human psyche to create boxed parts is one of the main goals of neoliberalism.[/QUOTE]I agree fully. But I am not so sure it is the girl who is to blame. But rather the society at large, forcing this area of life into the underground.

First part of your comment made me laugh a bit. You are totally right there! Silly terms indeed.

Like testing the theory of cold outside on a winter day. Is it cold because the weather forecast said it would be, or is it really cold outside? Because even if you didn't see the forecast, you might have been affected by the presence of someone who might just have seen it. So in order to test the thesis, you basically need to bring out someone from a mental institution. Preferably an old person. Somebody not able to get affect by others, and who has his own little box around him. And then see if he falls on what is presumably real ice. Otherwise, it might not be ice at all.

Fake ice!

I need some independent escorts sites from Dusseldorf or Koln. Is there any site for all Germany or are more? I never was to apartments just in FKK and I want to know more about this. Can anybody help me?

[QUOTE=NickTheG;2289758]So often here, people talk about finding a real woman or real feelings, of course in brothels. It is a bit like going to a zoo to see real wild animals. They never talk about why mongers (real men?) find themselves constantly in brothels again.[/QUOTE]Perhaps it's because I feel like "reality bites" (too rarely is it happily ever after), and so I would rather deal with women through "escapist fantasy" versus acknowledging, accepting, and coping with how it all really and truly is in "real" life. It's just easier and more satisfying to me. Anybody else care to opine?

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2289759]Sounds a lot like being friendzoned (except in reverse I guess). Good luck with that. Maybe you need to think outside the Box.

It's amazing how much Romanian girls have learnt from American Women without ever meeting them. They simply read what AWs have carved out in American guys' brains, and take their cue from that.[/QUOTE]Two points, I never thought I would be friends or anything more with her so no pity is necessary. The assumption that she is Romanian is incorrect. She is a really nice lady.

[QUOTE=NickTheG;2289758]So often here, people talk about finding a real woman or real feelings, of course in brothels. It is a bit like going to a zoo to see real wild animals.

They never talk about why mongers (real men?) find themselves constantly in brothels again.

I feel so sorry for this two-box woman. The fragmentation of the human psyche to create boxed parts is one of the main goals actively pursued by neoliberalism.[/QUOTE]I think she is rather level headed. She has a customer who keeps telling her that he will change her mind, she keeps telling him it is not possible because she will not let it be. I admire her honesty.

I would be interested in your professional viewpoints as a psychologist on this fragmented psyche theory.

[QUOTE=NickTheG;2289758]So often here, people talk about finding a real woman or real feelings, of course in brothels. It is a bit like going to a zoo to see real wild animals.

They never talk about why mongers (real men?) find themselves constantly in brothels again.
[/QUOTE]Why FKKs specifically?

Reliable and cost effective access to a diverse variety of female bodies in their prime without the the risk of possibly fruitlessly spending time and financial resources attempting to bed females in the real world with the added benefits of a social sandbox, food, drinks, and wellness amenities.

[QUOTE=NickTheG;2289758]I feel so sorry for this two-box woman. The fragmentation of the human psyche to create boxed parts is one of the main goals actively pursued by neoliberalism.[/QUOTE]I've heard a couple WGs tell me about their desire to separate these boxes. Can you blame them? It serves to protect both their sense of self and their source of income. Some practice this, some don't, and some say they do only to develop in-the-job relationships anyway. But you're right, it must be hard on them to keep their identities separate.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2289520]Another guy I knew once was gay. He lived in a big city with over 5 million people. Had been rejected by several girls early in his life, and eventually turned gay to find comfort.[/QUOTE]And when did you decide to be straight?

Geeze.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2289836]And when did you decide to be straight?

Geeze.[/QUOTE]Sorry, I should have told you sooner. Well, what can I say? Though luck?

[QUOTE=Takedown;2288951]Right. You are explaining the reasoning behind the ability to separate empathy and actions exemplary of traditional morality. So these WGs are capable of truly relating to and empathizing with the monger. Some of them just have moral codes that allow them to exploit a man's lust or loneliness.[/QUOTE]Psychologists believe there are two types of empathy: cognitive and affective.

[QUOTE]
"There are two kinds of empathy. Cognitive empathy is the ability to know what other people are feeling, and emotional empathy is the kind where you feel what they're feeling," explains James Fallon, a neuroscientist at the University of California and the author of The Psychopath Inside: A Neuroscientist's Personal Journey Into the Dark Side of the Brain.

Psychopaths are specialists in cognitive empathy. "This all gives certain psychopaths a great advantage, because they can understand what you're thinking, it's just that they don't care, so they can use you against yourself," Fallon says.

https://www.eqapplied.com/bariso/5-ways-psychopaths-use-emotional-intelligence-according-to-science
[/QUOTE]So a WG can have cognitive empathy. They are good at reading the lovesick monger's emotions but they may not really care about his emotions. This high emotional intelligence that they possess can be used to manipulate or what Wikipedia refers to as "tactical or strategic empathy", which is the deliberate use of perspective-taking to achieve certain desired ends.

Human beings are able to display empathy on a situational basis:

[QUOTE]
Perhaps one of the most insidious forms of anti-social personality disorder is what may be termed situational sociopathy or psychopathy, where an individual extends cordiality, respect, and regard towards some, but exhibits inhumanity, harshness, and cruelty towards others. Targets of situational sociopathy or psychopathy are usually individuals or groups considered to be other, lesser, or weaker, and may be based on factors such as gender, class, race, sexual orientation, social standing, societal afflictions, etc. This sociopathic splitting views some people as fully human, and others as objects, commodities, and less human. Situational sociopathy or psychopathy contributes to many unjust conditions, such as misogyny, class bigotry, racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, extreme poverty, and structural violence in society.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/communication-success/201810/7-characterisitics-the-modern-psychopath
[/QUOTE]To be reminded of this, we can look back to the slavery era. Were all white plantation owners in the Americas and Caribbean sociopaths? I suspect they were able to feel true empathy for their own family members and other members of the white race, but not their black slaves, who were beaten, brutalized, and exploited. If a black mother was separated from her children, surely they were able to recognize and see the pain in her face (cognitive empathy), but they did not share her personal distress. They did not consider her human. So with people in her personal life, a WG may have both cognitive and affective empathy, but with her clients, she may only have cognitive empathy.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2289801]Perhaps it's because I feel like "reality bites" (too rarely is it happily ever after), and so I would rather deal with women through "escapist fantasy" versus acknowledging, accepting, and coping with how it all really and truly is in "real" life. It's just easier and more satisfying to me. Anybody else care to opine?[/QUOTE]I only like girls when they are beautiful, so traditional way of mating called marriage or relationship cannot work in long term, it only work in short term, so mongering naturally works better to serve my interest and preference avoiding not necessary costs, time, nerve and problems. The whole thing changed for me when prostitution industry began supplying top level looking girls with such a easy access here, Germany, Switzerland etc.

Rationally speaking, it is not normal to fuck old or middle age ugly women just because you tend to like or love her as a person, I mean I can like some women very much as a person, I just do not have to kiss, fuck or live with her. They are just friends I tend to like or respect very much and no sex is needed between friends.

I fuck many young beautiful girls doing all sort of things and I do socializing with friends. For me, it make sense the most and it is happy ever after.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2289520]As a response to McAdonis: Every seller has to sometimes battle with the ideas you project there. The ethical side of juggling empathy with the buyer as well as your own need to make an income. But this is like Takedown rightly points out, also a key reason to why the experienced seller is so good at empathy. But as soon as he gives in too much, and stops making excuses for why he takes the buyers money, he or she wants to quit. The grey lies have gone too far. A psychopath? Maybe. Sales psychology mentions this a lot, and this is why good sales companies usually have a psychologist to help them deal with this problem.[/QUOTE]Opposite ends of the spectrum!

Many salesmen want to make profits, and often with the goal of building a sustainable relationship with their clients. For instance, some money managers may push certain products to get higher commissions. In doing so, they are looking out for their own interests, but they also have the goal of ensuring their clients get decent investment returns. Their goal is to not drain their client financially, potentially down to their last cent or sell bogus, fraudulent products and services, so these men are not psychopaths.

Then you have salesman like Bernie Madoff that abuse trust and commit fraud. He was running Ponzi schemes and taking people's life savings. This requires callousness and we can consider people like him a true psychopath. In brothels, you do not have to look hard to find lonely, vulnerable men. WGs may realize that their client is spending beyond his means because he is lovesick. End result is potentially no different than the demise of some of Madoff's clients. Financial pain. Emotional pain. And sometimes even suicide.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2289867]Psychologists believe there are two types of empathy: cognitive and affective.

So a WG can have cognitive empathy. They are good at reading the lovesick monger's emotions but they may not really care about his emotions. This high emotional intelligence that they possess can be used to manipulate or what Wikipedia refers to as "tactical or strategic empathy", which is the deliberate use of perspective-taking to achieve certain desired ends.
U
Human beings are able to display empathy on a situational basis:

To be reminded of this, we can look back to the slavery era. Were all white plantation owners in the Americas and Caribbean sociopaths? I suspect they were able to feel true empathy for their own family members and other members of the white race, but not their black slaves, who were beaten, brutalized, and exploited. If a black mother was separated from her children, surely they were able to recognize and see the pain in her face (cognitive empathy), but they did not share her personal distress. They did not consider her human. So with people in her personal life, a WG may have both cognitive and affective empathy, but with her clients, she may only have cognitive empathy.[/QUOTE]Fair distinction. We can differentiate the types of empathy by categorizing them or is it more accurate to place them on a threshold gradient? I have empathy for my dog when he is bored at home wanting to go for a walk. I truly feel bad that he is not outside running and playing. Much like my desire to stretch my social legs when I want human interaction, I empathize with his boredom. Now does that empathy cross an intolerable threshold where I can overcome my personal desires to be lazy at home? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Did I feel empathy and even feel that I was a bad master every time I ignored his whines to go for a walk? Yes, but often it did not cross the threshold required for me to do something about it.

An even darker scenario is the mother of a crying baby. Sometimes the mom is so tired that she cannot garner the energy to console a crying child. My friend would even purposely go to the patio to escape the kid's cries. Did she have empathy and actually felt pain for her child? I know for a fact she did. But in that tired state, that empathy could not overcome her need for respite care of her own sanity.

This threshold theory is supported by the scenario you painted before where a WG finally cuts ties with a monger once her reasoning no longer "assuages her guilt."

Pistons. As at 2019 just about everyone has a productivity glut and play exchange rate games to sell more crap. Now we have a trade war and another war of 5 G standards and who controls the internet toll gate. Meanwhile, all the benefits have trickled up, and rich people do not spend much of their income (unlike most people who spend nearly all of it). This is like a giant blood clot and not enough income flowing around, and thus less money by normal people to buy crap. The Trump Godzilla tax break is going into stock buybacks and making CEO's rich. However you look at it, money flows up and gets clotted. They do not hire people or invest in are&the. The pie may be bigger, but shared between fewer. This is the basic problem for weak demand = lack of widely distributed decent income.

Oh, and massive asset inflation as a disguised bail out. The pension funds and insurers need at least 7% to pay long term liabilities. That is also a Ponzi scheme. Insurers are quite sick after a decade of silly low rates and chasing high risk stuff to make up lost ground. So, there is a hell of a lot of money sloshing about in speculation and assets, and cracks are everywhere. The central banks keep papering over it. There are even explicitly NEGATIVE interest rates in parts of Europe, and yet they are still pushing on string. We should have reset the balance sheets in 2009 and figured how to get spendable income to ordinary people. But, greed won, and here we are. Something will trigger it. The Italian and Spanish banks have psychiatric accounting just as Cyprus banks collapsed (and some pissed of Russians). Maybe that. Or steadily more bonds failing. As for China, well we have Alice in Wonderland accounts, but it too has serious problems and surplus production, shrinking income for ordinary people, and ageing population. The miracle is much less so behind the managed stage and massaged figures. The Euro and the EU is a mess of radically different fiscal responsibility entities and economies that is a house of cards.

The USD is the least worst currency. Japan, I think, is good long term as its population drops to a level aligned with the need for a lot less people. Jeremy Rivkin wrote in 1995 "In virtually every major manufacturing activity, human labour is being steadily replaced by machines. Today, millions of working men and women around the world find themselves trapped between economic eras and increasingly marginalised by the introduction of new laboursaving technology. By the mid-decades of the coming century, the blue collar worker will have passed from history, a casualty of the relentless March toward ever greater technological efficiency. " Update that after 25 years to include travel agents, lawyers, accountants vast tracts of retail people, and so on, including radiologists. Gene therapy will put many surgeons out of work, pharmacists and maybe even big pharma as tailored medicine becomes in vogue. The good new is that we can create treatment for anti-biotic resistant microbes and maybe even lovely skin. AI, when it happens, will create a shattering paradigm shift. It might be the best store of value is stock in Google and Amazon or Baidu.

More scary still is that we may be the last natural humans. Genetic manipulation on humans is well and truly happening behind the scenes because it is irresistible. The genie is out of the bottle, and very wealthy may indeed be able to create an objective super race just as we knocked off the Neanderthals. The even more scary question becomes "what do we want to become" ?

Despite this, ripe, youthful pussy in its prime is ours right here, right now. New stuff on the market all the time. Girls born in 2000 to 2002 are coming on line for our lustful desires. Who said millennial were useless?

With FKK priced in Euros (that I think has more downside risk than upside) - yahoo, here I come).

[QUOTE=TheCane;2289801]Perhaps it's because I feel like "reality bites" (too rarely is it happily ever after), and so I would rather deal with women through "escapist fantasy" versus acknowledging, accepting, and coping with how it all really and truly is in "real" life. It's just easier and more satisfying to me. Anybody else care to opine?[/QUOTE]Despite some men being pigs as the saying goes, I think many men are after more than sex. We want to recapture those butterflies of when you are first head over heels for some girl. And so things like DFK which is the entry into that world are at a premium. I know I would pay cash dollars to just slow dance and DFK a girl who is really into kissing. Girls like Thifany (Fazendinha) or Rika (exTHC) or Honey (THC) or Bella (Indy) or Kate (Globe). It feels like a real connection that is indescribable. Yes, if choosing sex or that, I would choose the DFK slow dance — sap that I am. (Fortunately I never had to choose!

When I totally lucked out and had Thifany as my girlfriend for a week, it was total emotional connection and butterflies. Having a 23 year old on your arm and on the dance floor is intoxicating. Leaving her was heartbreaking but totally worth the ride. As a realist I know real life would never be like that week. I know she will get lazy or needy or both and sure enough we have drifted apart. This is really for the best as it can never be the same.

So we keep it all temporary and try to string together a set of butterflies. I surely hope I can find another. In the meantime quality in-room time will have to do.

P.S. If you want more on the whole Thifany story it is too long to post — just I'm me.

Such a thing exists. The Big Mac Index. Exists that gives a common price for various countries said to reflect economic efficiency. Maybe the mongers here should create a standardized WG profile (say 7-9/10 looks, DFK, BBJCIM) and post data to enable a market place. Maybe even create a swaps market like the price of Brent crude oil. Just saying.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2289873]Opposite ends of the spectrum!

Many salesmen want to make profits, and often with the goal of building a sustainable relationship with their clients. For instance, some money managers may push certain products to get higher commissions. In doing so, they are looking out for their own interests, but they also have the goal of ensuring their clients get decent investment returns. Their goal is to not drain their client financially, potentially down to their last cent or sell bogus, fraudulent products and services, so these men are not psychopaths.

Then you have salesman like Bernie Madoff that abuse trust and commit fraud. He was running Ponzi schemes and taking people's life savings. This requires callousness and we can consider people like him a true psychopath. In brothels, you do not have to look hard to find lonely, vulnerable men. WGs may realize that their client is spending beyond his means because he is lovesick. End result is potentially no different than the demise of some of Madoff's clients. Financial pain. Emotional pain. And sometimes even suicide.[/QUOTE]True, but in most situations, as a seller you consider most of the things you sell to be ridiculously overpriced. Insurances for example. Then again, arguing for its benefits is pretty straight forward.

[QUOTE=Frank992;2289796]I need some independent escorts sites from Dusseldorf or Koln. Is there any site for all Germany or are more? I never was to apartments just in FKK and I want to know more about this. Can anybody help me?[/QUOTE]Kaufmich for escorts. I remember some girls who worked both at GT and on Kaufmich.

On beginning of December 2017, I was informed, after I was paid a room at GT, so I discovered a escort in a club, repeated on next week end at YY, then in hotel, then in apartment, but still for club rate, usually 300 for 3 sex hours, but staying about 5 hours, many times she cancelled appointments after, my best ever sexual potential, fitness stamina.

Yeah, its a good summary Phallus. But there are agents behind the numbers who are smarter than most people think. Conspiracy theory of course, but if you and me can figure this out, there surely must be smarter people who also can see it won't last forever. A superior economic model for example would be a purely block chain based model where money is taxed instead of labor. With basic income payouts. But then there would be far less hierarchy in the world, and far less options to stray socio cultural agenda's around the world. Because at the end of the day, economics is nothing more than a social science. The math is fictitious, and it doesn't add up the way it works now. And has never worked with interest and inflation. With a perfect system based on digital blockchains, national cults would live on, Nazism / racism would continue and wars could potentially break out. As technology improves, that is a risk we cannot take. So borders needs to go. And as we have no idea where it leads us, playing with fire before the house is shielded is a bad idea. The problem is just that it seems like population is going to plummet before anything is done, and it will all continue to be as interventionist as it has been for years to come. And meanwhile the population is plummeting to 'controllable levels', there can be a lot of chaos, and leaders are never without fault. Especially when entering new territory. Machiavellianism lives on for now. , and the main reason is continued population growth. Currently mainly in sub Saharan Africa, while the rest of the world seems to be on track.

Salaam Old Nick and barak-Alabama!

[QUOTE=NickTheG;2289758]
I feel so sorry for this two-box woman.
[/QUOTE]I would bang her in both boxes and see if that helps.

[QUOTE=NickTheG;2289758]
The fragmentation of the human psyche to create boxed parts is one of the main goals actively pursued by neoliberalism.[/QUOTE]Would you care to expand on that or provide a link?

What do we want to become?

Sooner or later, a super rich billionaire (someone less philanthropic and more narrow minded than Bill Gates) would perhaps use crispr and gene sequencing to create an extra long and large endowment for himself, something that will work for several dozens of decades w / o additional chemical molecules, and purchase a couple of FKKs in each major city for himself and indulge in every sexual whim of his, not once or twice, but for decades on. Of course as the member of the super rich race, he will have access to the extremely expensive new biotech products to elongate his life span, in addition to enlarging his organs.

Isn't that the fantasy of every monger here?

[QUOTE=CaneUppHosAss;2289940]What do we want to become?

Sooner or later, a super rich billionaire (someone less philanthropic and more narrow minded than Bill Gates) would perhaps use crispr and gene sequencing to create an extra long and large endowment for himself, something that will work for several dozens of decades w / o additional chemical molecules, and purchase a couple of FKKs in each major city for himself and indulge in every sexual whim of his, not once or twice, but for decades on. Of course as the member of the super rich race, he will have access to the extremely expensive new biotech products to elongate his life span, in addition to enlarging his organs.

Isn't that the fantasy of every monger here?[/QUOTE]Only if one has a small one. I would rather increase the number of sensors on the willy. Stretch the head further back, and get a stronger frenulum. I would only increase the length if something is also done to the female's organs.

Lets hope we get there sooner than later. But I think we might see a drastic reduction of the total world population in total numbers before then. And that might take so long before we get there that perhaps none of us here will get the benefits. Maybe an AI singularity event is our only hope of seeing it for ourselves.

[QUOTE=NickTheG;2289758]So often here, people talk about finding a real woman or real feelings, of course in brothels. It is a bit like going to a zoo to see real wild animals.

They never talk about why mongers (real men?) find themselves constantly in brothels again.

I feel so sorry for this two-box woman. The fragmentation of the human psyche to create boxed parts is one of the main goals actively pursued by neoliberalism.[/QUOTE]Nice thoughts. These issues are too complex to be effectively discussed in a forum, but you have a decent attempt at a succinct summary here.

The point of the "box" analogy is neat, and can be applied to all capitalist and state socialist societies not just neo-liberalism (which does however make a fetish of it unlike the social democratic model which is more nuanced). In essence the "box" is the heart of the Karl Marx sociology of alienation.

As for why men go to brothels you are right, a little bit of introspection does not go amiss. It is not just about the fucking, but about illusions, remedies for problems, societal pressures, and emotional and mental needs.

I am not sure I agree if you are implying that we do not find real women and relationships in brothels. They may be within different parameters to one's outside brothels, but each woman we meet there is a real person and there is human interaction. Provided of course there is some leakage between the boxes :)

[QUOTE=CaneUppHosAss;2289940]What do we want to become?

Sooner or later, a super rich billionaire (someone less philanthropic and more narrow minded than Bill Gates) would perhaps use crispr and gene sequencing to create an extra long and large endowment for himself, something that will work for several dozens of decades w / o additional chemical molecules, and purchase a couple of FKKs in each major city for himself and indulge in every sexual whim of his, not once or twice, but for decades on. Of course as the member of the super rich race, he will have access to the extremely expensive new biotech products to elongate his life span, in addition to enlarging his organs.

Isn't that the fantasy of every monger here?[/QUOTE]What about the "hero with a thousand penises"?

[URL]https://www.amazon.de/Thousand-Faces-Collected-Joseph-Campbell/dp/1577315936[/URL]

Yes, I want at least two extra long penises. So I can have much more fun within given time. Or just to imagine: I can relax at the bar while fucking girls somewhere in the club. LOL!

[QUOTE=Optimist;2290044]I am not sure I agree if you are implying that we do not find real women and relationships in brothels. They may be within different parameters to one's outside brothels, but each woman we meet there is a real person and there is human interaction. Provided of course there is some leakage between the boxes :)[/QUOTE]The more true we are to ourselves, and the less fragmented our self-organization is, the more true encounters or relationships we will find. Independent of environment.

If we are tied to permanent greed for money or addicted to consumption of sex, we are in the box.

A brothel is a "box" by itself. It attracts only certain kind of people. Sort of a laboratory for a karmic development path. Maybe for those who want / need to sacrifice their "holy" illusions in a longterm process.

[QUOTE=NickTheG;2290059]The more true we are to ourselves, and the less fragmented our self-organization is, the more true encounters or relationships we will find. Independent of environment.

If we are tied to permanent greed for money or addicted to consumption of sex, we are in the box.

A brothel is a "box" by itself. It attracts only certain kind of people. Sort of a laboratory for a karmic development path. Maybe for those who want / need to sacrifice their "holy" illusions in a longterm process.[/QUOTE]Well put. You are on form today!

[QUOTE=Optimist;2290044]The point of the "box" analogy is neat, and can be applied to all capitalist and state socialist societies not just neo-liberalism (which does however make a fetish of it unlike the social democratic model which is more nuanced). In essence the "box" is the heart of the Karl Marx sociology of alienation.[/QUOTE]I'm sure this is exactly what the 22 yo prostitute was thinking.

Or perhaps she was thinking like Mr Ho. Why would she want to have a relationship with a man who went to prostitutes and paid them for sex. Her honest approach that she will not allow men from her professional job to cross into her personal life may seem harsh or mechanical. Of course, I've never had the problem where every prostitute I slept with automatically forgot all other men, past and future, because I'm so amazing.

It gets comical when the posters here feel they have to analyze every post by anyone except their two friends and prove their own superiority. Please, in responding, use something other than Machiavellian or Orwellian comparisons. How some people write here seems as though they are employing these beliefs to pump their egos up on a sex forum. Let's find some new idols that have sexual relevance: Freud, Shakespeare, Chaucer. Anybody but please stop with the continual recycling. Anyone who cared to know about Machiavellianism or Orwellian theories has already looked them up. Those who don't care to know are probably the same ones that skip your writings along with skipping the writings by the men who have sexual super powers they use to seduce a prostitute and bang her so hard she has to take the night off afterwards.

I challenge you to think outside the "Box" and to come up with something new. My new campaign motto is Make Sauna Clubs Great Again.

My last challenge is for someone who has been to a FKK to write about your experiences. Hiking on nature trails, participating in sports activities, sitting around the picnic tables eating lunch while everyone is nude. This is what FKK is about. Not visiting a sex club.

One of the recent trends in American and other western societies is the idea that men and women lay 100% of their emotional deck of cards at the feet of the partner. Especially men. In the past, and in many cultures such as the older Greeks, Asian and judaism, the men for strong strong social bonds independent of their relationships. This ancient system builds very real redundancy. Taking the box analogy, it creates many good quality boxes that may not include a pretty young thing (neither pretty or young for very long) , but is real and life sustaining. As Nick the G says, the other boxes are bought, illusionary and transient, and the owners work hard to make it leak proof. Throwing seed in those boxes (at least the psychological type) is mostly wasted on barren ground. Some would say WG's are close to a warm play toy for masturbation, though I disagree. But it is definitely not the real thing given for free and from the heart. Men can disassociate sex from emotions far better than women. Some men confuse the two. The girl with her personal box analogy was spot on and remarkably wise. A way better path for men is to build wide and deep relationships with people where the wildcard of sex is out of the equation. Not glitzy clubs anyone with a fistful of euros is an instant friend and instantly ejected once the cash is gone.

I often wonder what it would be like to be in a WG's skin. How would I feel if some wrinkly old hag jammed her tongue down my throat or going down on her grey pubes and wrinkly saddle bag thighs? Would I feel affectionate to her? How would I feel with a bunch of leering cougars twice my age ogling me like a piece of prime beef cut into imaginary in sections? What if I had to parade in speedos or a g-string as well ? And then smile and act fascinated for hours on end with some old woman who works in a corporate bunker and tells me about her messed up life as her personal confessor ? And in a second language ? Yes, women do have a peacock gene to show off and be pretty, but they also like to control that to people they are attracted to. Looking around a FKK at the majority of mongers is far from a male beauty contest. The contrast between the girls and the men in attractiveness is pretty stark for the most part.

Comparmentalization. Disassociation- of identity comes with significant costs of self-esteem and anxiety and is not free, save for psychopaths where it is just one of several masks in a box that is an endless vaccum. Know yourself, train the brain to spot and kill dangerous cravings and discontent over what the past should have been or what might happen (the Bhuddist way) and everything becomes calm. It's mostly madness to think a girl selling herself for cash to men and having to act that she hangs on every often drunken word and loves that flabby body is going to feel a bloom of romance. We have fun, but the girls are WORKING. If they won the lottery or inheritance they would be instantly gone in a puff of smoke. I often wonder what it would be like to be in their skin. How would I feel if some wrinkly old hag jammed her tongue down my throat or going down on her grey pubes and wrinkly saddle bag thighs? Would I feel affectionate to her? Would her handbag reluctantly opened and cash dispensed transform any of the above?

We are meeting for a bit of fun for ourselves, FKK's and brothels are a consensual movie set between willing actors, we are the producers and directors of sorts and the girls are working. They may derive some satisfaction over their effect on us as a sort of feminine power versus our wanting our script to play out, but in the end it comes down to what psychological health we have off the movie set and in our heads, a sand castle on a beach or a brick house on the hill. We sure are not going to find that in shopping malls, the internet or FKK's.

Now, back to scoring the hottest young actresses for some harmless and consensual fun !

[QUOTE=Pistons;2289773]I agree fully. But I am not so sure it is the girl who is to blame. But rather the society at large, forcing this area of life into the underground.

First part of your comment made me laugh a bit. You are totally right there! Silly terms indeed.

Like testing the theory of cold outside on a winter day. Is it cold because the weather forecast said it would be, or is it really cold outside? Because even if you didn't see the forecast, you might have been affected by the presence of someone who might just have seen it. So in order to test the thesis, you basically need to bring out someone from a mental institution. Preferably an old person. Somebody not able to get affect by others, and who has his own little box around him. And then see if he falls on what is presumably real ice. Otherwise, it might not be ice at all.

Fake ice![/QUOTE]For sure, WGs are right to protect their real private intimacy, and I m not really interested about. Even I often give advice, more often about woman care from my life with women, than about Globe, to my favorites, but when they ask why You don t come to visit Romania, to ski around Brasov, even know snow is better in Romania, but I m not interested out of clubs, not my image of girlfriend, but in clubs I m only interested when I can touch the woman part, I don t repeat just for sex, I need to feel the woman part to really enjoy. Just technique and sex, even with fire in bed, would be boring to repeat, but when You touch sensuality and woman, then we can improve together and much more enjoyable for me.

Girls say we are all different, for sure I m very different from Asians for girls, I know my eyes are very different about girls looks and behavior, behavior is the most important for me, even I need beauty, I left girls I drove weekly so many kilometers for and they came straight to me when they saw me, but new behavior made me run away, no more woman, just prostitute, not anymore interesting, don t worth anymore to pay for, when I paid 1500/2000 for one on some months. On the other hand, I drove from Luxemburg to LR just to explain with a girl, not even for sex, just because I didn't want she believe bullshits. She understood by herself even before I explained, nice chat with her, I like this kind of girl. Also look forward to meet again one who stopped to work for few hours at 1 pm when I told her I didn't want to repeat because she finished too exhausted our room on previous night, so I was afraid to hurt her. I will have to explain with her.

[QUOTE=NickTheG;2290051]What about the "hero with a thousand penises"?

[URL]https://www.amazon.de/Thousand-Faces-Collected-Joseph-Campbell/dp/1577315936[/URL]

Yes, I want at least two extra long penises. So I can have much more fun within given time. Or just to imagine: I can relax at the bar while fucking girls somewhere in the club. LOL![/QUOTE]Haha. Well sir, the other gentleman postulated what if and I provided one scenario. I think longer lasting big dicks may be a reasonable scenario within our time horizons. Not sure about 2 dicks though.

Not to mention, if a man has 2 dicks then he would always be forced to fuck 2 girls at the same or DP a girl. Normal, traditional vaginal sex with one girl might be a difficult thing when the second dick gets in the way! LOL.

I think an important thing we need to keep in mind here is that the girls stay in the clubs almost every day. Every week aside from when going on vacation. Almost without a single exclusion to the norm, when I meet a new girl in a club who just started the job, she is far far more into it than someone who has been in the environment for years or months. Her hormones are just not overused. After 5-10 visits again with the same girl, you start regaining some passion. But then it seems to be more about friendship and security, as opposed to pure heat like on the first 1 or 2 sessions. Maybe I am lucky, but girls new to clubs after just 1-3 days of working are always wet, and to me at least it is easy to make them cum. After awhile they get dry, and need heavy lubrication. I have told some chefs to use more tomatos and other types of food to boost the girls enjoyment, but unless they manage to get that, it is more and more like phallus says.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2289520]
Another guy I knew once was gay. He lived in a big city with over 5 million people. Had been rejected by several girls early in his life, and eventually turned gay to find comfort.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2289836]And when did you decide to be straight?

Geeze.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2289856]Sorry, I should have told you sooner. Well, what can I say? Though luck?[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]Perhaps you don't understand my point (s).

(1) The notion that someone can "turn gay" let alone *choose* to "turn gay" is not based on facts or science.

(2) Perpetuating such a notion supports sexual bigots who would like to make sexual preference a moral choice rather than something people simply are without any choice about it.

(3) Perpetuating such a notion supports stupid guilt-based attempts to "cure" people who are gay via conversion "therapy. ".

It's a false and hurtful POV that contributes to unfair and needless suffering. That you peddle such nonsense with an assumed air of expertise makes it all the worse.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2290221]
(1) The notion that someone can "turn gay" let alone *choose* to "turn gay" is not based on facts or science.

(2) Perpetuating such a notion supports sexual bigots who would like to make sexual preference a moral choice rather than something people simply are without any choice about it.
[/QUOTE]Salaam PC Neuro. Surely it is more demeaning to people to tell them they have no choice in the matter. In fact humans have very flexible psyches and there are tons and tons of examples of straight folk who have gradually got more and more bendy over time: Chris Birch, Marlon Brandon, Cary Grant, Alec Guinness, even Angelina Jolie.

I find Mr Pistons' anecdote very credible.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2289876]An even darker scenario is the mother of a crying baby. Sometimes the mom is so tired that she cannot garner the energy to console a crying child. My friend would even purposely go to the patio to escape the kid's cries. Did she have empathy and actually felt pain for her child? I know for a fact she did. But in that tired state, that empathy could not overcome her need for respite care of her own sanity.

This threshold theory is supported by the scenario you painted before where a WG finally cuts ties with a monger once her reasoning no longer "assuages her guilt."[/QUOTE]While there are thresholds involved as you suggest, I see some distinctions between the scenario I painted above, and the mother of crying baby scenario you describe.

One, I do not consider this mother's actions to be cruel, immoral, or criminal, whereas a WG taking a monger to the cleaners is. Whether it is time, money, or energy, there is a limit to how much one can give. Now if the mother were receiving baby food money from the government, but used that money instead to buy designer purses while watching her baby starve, that is a different story. However, the mother who occasionally does not pick up and comfort her crying baby knows that "in the balance" she is treating her baby well, meaning that tomorrow she will spend the entire day with her baby, once she is rested. In the balance she knows that she gives and helps significantly more than she neglects. Can we say the same for a WG--does she give more than she takes from a lovesick monger?

Two, the mother is not actively inflicting pain onto her baby. I characterize this mother's behavior as "momentary" neglect of responsibility, because eight times out of ten, I assume your friend picks up her crying baby. Looking away when someone is suffering is quite different than deliberately and actively causing suffering. In most cases, the latter requires either higher levels of sociopathy or a greater degree of self-deception. The former would be the German populace that failed to intervene (passive) during the Nazi era, the latter would be the SS soldiers who executed (active) Jews as they begged for their life. In both my hypothetical scenarios with the burglar and the scamming WG, the perpetrators had already inflicted significant financial and emotional pain onto their victims, but they simply showed mercy at the final stage of their cruel, immoral, and criminal act.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2289915]True, but in most situations, as a seller you consider most of the things you sell to be ridiculously overpriced. Insurances for example.[/QUOTE]Selling overpriced items or unneccessary warranties to boost profit is generally not considered cruel, immoral, or criminal. Reputable watch shops might do this for example. But as I said, most businesses are just looking for a "healthy" profit margin. They are not trying to defraud or take their customers to the cleaners because these businesses plan to stay in business long term, not like some counterfeit watch salesman who changes street corners and cities every other day.

Selling counterfeit, fake items that can result in long-term suffering for the client requires higher degrees of callousness. Examples would be the Chinese companies that sold baby formula with melamine in it. Or again the Madoff scandal.

"Take someone to the cleaners" is an American idiom which means to take all someone's money or possessions in a dishonest or unfair way (Google).

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2290221]Perhaps you don't understand my point (s).

(1) The notion that someone can "turn gay" let alone *choose* to "turn gay" is not based on facts or science.

(2) Perpetuating such a notion supports sexual bigots who would like to make sexual preference a moral choice rather than something people simply are without any choice about it.

(3) Perpetuating such a notion supports stupid guilt-based attempts to "cure" people who are gay via conversion "therapy. ".

It's a false and hurtful POV that contributes to unfair and needless suffering. That you peddle such nonsense with an assumed air of expertise makes it all the worse.[/QUOTE]LOL, give me a break! Take your sjw ideas elsewhere. Because on me they don't stick. I follow logic and not media stories fed to the general public zombie listeners.

Sure there are some minor biological differences, some of which is even based on environmental factors. But several people have swayed from gay to straight and vice versa forever. In ancient Greece and rome, this was all normal. Some people even consider it to be 'bi'. Meaning both straight and gay. But you can assume your own definition whenever you pay the most focus on one side of the coin (LOL?) There is allways a combination of environment and genetics. And your comment assumes you know more about my comment than what I posted. And your assumptions throughout your comment puts you straight into the neoliberal box defining category Nick the g talks about.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2290279]Salaam PC Neuro. Surely it is more demeaning to people to tell them they have no choice in the matter. In fact humans have very flexible psyches and there are tons and tons of examples of straight folk who have gradually got more and more bendy over time: Chris Birch, Marlon Brandon, Cary Grant, Alec Guinness, even Angelina Jolie.

I find Mr Pistons' anecdote very credible.[/QUOTE]Well said.

But I suppose I should add that my 'anecdote' both regarding the 3 different handicapped 'smoke victims', and the 3 other examples I made in the escapism post (the gay guy included) were not anecdotes at all. All six are in fact real flesh and blood stories.

Right, point was the separation of empathy and action. Also applies with your categorical empathy. Theshold or theroretical, I think we both agree that WGs can feel true empathy.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2290283]While there are thresholds involved as you suggest, I see some distinctions between the scenario I painted above, and the mother of crying baby scenario you describe.

One, I do not consider this mother's actions to be cruel, immoral, or criminal, whereas a WG taking a monger to the cleaners is. Whether it is time, money, or energy, there is a limit to how much one can give. Now if the mother were receiving baby food money from the government, but used that money instead to buy designer purses while watching her baby starve, that is a different story. However, the mother who occasionally does not pick up and comfort her crying baby knows that "in the balance" she is treating her baby well, meaning that tomorrow she will spend the entire day with her baby, once she is rested. In the balance she knows that she gives and helps significantly more than she neglects. Can we say the same for a WG--does she give more than she takes from a lovesick monger?.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2290284]Selling overpriced items or unneccessary warranties to boost profit is generally not considered cruel, immoral, or criminal. Reputable watch shops might do this for example. But as I said, most businesses are just looking for a "healthy" profit margin. They are not trying to defraud or take their customers to the cleaners because these businesses plan to stay in business long term, not like some counterfeit watch salesman who changes street corners and cities every other day.

Selling counterfeit, fake items that can result in long-term suffering for the client requires higher degrees of callousness. Examples would be the Chinese companies that sold baby formula with melamine in it. Or again the Madoff scandal.

"Take someone to the cleaners" is an American idiom which means to take all someone's money or possessions in a dishonest or unfair way (Google).[/QUOTE]Yes, I agree. Too bad really so many girls in FKK's doesn't read about this. They all think they will be out of the job within a year. But 5 years later they are still around due to the high income. But at some point it drops because they don't consider what you mention there. They just haven't been paying attention to the idea of keeping a high service moral, good attitude and integrity.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2290290]Well said.

But I suppose I should add that my 'anecdote' both regarding the 3 different handicapped 'smoke victims', and the 3 other examples I made in the escapism post (the gay guy included) were not anecdotes at all. All six are in fact real flesh and blood stories.[/QUOTE]What was the point of that exactly? Smoking's bad? That's kinda like saying don't get a tattoo of a hooker's name on your foot.

Pistons. Agreeing with you I will quote Akibono:

"This is the secret to the FKK concept. By keeping prices standard, you do not waste time negotiating and you keep out the scammers. Thus, people have a good time and spend more money. Everyone benefits except the butterflies that go from club to club and scam people. The girls many earn a little less per session, but the good ones have regular customers that help they earn a nice living".

Btw. Nice point about ancient Greeks and homosexuality. Sexuality must to some degree be a choice: no way were all the male citizens engaging in homosexual practices because they were all biologically different from modern males who in the majority do not engage in such practices. Nobody can put all humanity in an ideological straitjacket: each person is an individual who has biological determinants but also cultural choices

[QUOTE=Optimist;2290493]Pistons. Agreeing with you I will quote Akibono:

"This is the secret to the FKK concept. By keeping prices standard, you do not waste time negotiating and you keep out the scammers. Thus, people have a good time and spend more money. Everyone benefits except the butterflies that go from club to club and scam people. The girls many earn a little less per session, but the good ones have regular customers that help they earn a nice living".[/QUOTE]Yeah, the way to look at the FKK pricing is weather or not they price themselves above or below the willingness to pay line. But they suck at trying to find this line. Personally I believe that line lies at 70 e per 30 min. But that means 0 upselling.

If they price themselves below this line, then upselling will occur, and double pricing will prevail. Something 99% of us hate. Putting the girls on our hate list. If they price themselves above, then it will become a luxury thing only for the rich, and the mass market will be lost. Also people will go elsewhere instead of to FKK.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2290279]Salaam PC Neuro. Surely it is more demeaning to people to tell them they have no choice in the matter. In fact humans have very flexible psyches and there are tons and tons of examples of straight folk who have gradually got more and more bendy over time: Chris Birch, Marlon Brandon, Cary Grant, Alec Guinness, even Angelina Jolie.

I find Mr Pistons' anecdote very credible.[/QUOTE]Is it demeaning to tell someone who is short that they couldn't have chosen to be tall? No. It is both true and not demeaning.

And just because someone's activity changes, does that mean they *willed* the change to happen? No. Attraction is not a choice, and changes in attraction are not a choice. One can choose whether to pursue the attraction or not, but the attraction is not a choice.

"Sexual orientation is a natural part of who you are it's not a choice. Your sexual orientation can change over your lifetime. ".

[URL]https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/sexual-orientation-gender/sexual-orientation/what-causes-sexual-orientation[/URL]

[QUOTE=Pistons;2290288]LOL, give me a break! Take your sjw ideas elsewhere. Because on me they don't stick. I follow logic and not media stories fed to the general public zombie listeners.

Sure there are some minor biological differences, some of which is even based on environmental factors. But several people have swayed from gay to straight and vice versa forever. In ancient Greece and rome, this was all normal. Some people even consider it to be 'bi'. Meaning both straight and gay. But you can assume your own definition whenever you pay the most focus on one side of the coin (LOL?) There is allways a combination of environment and genetics. And your comment assumes you know more about my comment than what I posted. And your assumptions throughout your comment puts you straight into the neoliberal box defining category Nick the g talks about.[/QUOTE]Rejecting arguments based on political tribal affiliation rather than substance is a lazy lack of critical thinking.

I can find no end to experts who will attest to the fact that sexual orientation, even as it changes, is not a choice. It's not an act of will. The change in attraction happens first, and only then does one choose whether or not to pursue it.

I'll not judge your posts based on assumed abstract political affiliations. I will judge your posts negatively when they conflict with science.

From the American Psychological Association:

"Is Sexual Orientation a Choice?

No, human beings can not choose to be either gay or straight. Sexual orientation emerges for most people in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. Although we can choose whether to act on our feelings, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed. ".

Ya lahwy PC Neuro.

Kindly don't rob me of the fragile sense of virtue I get from following the straight and narrow and FuKKing only people who can produce a sample with two X chromosomes -- never giving in to the lure of the TV / TS types! My choice.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2290621]
No, human beings can not choose to be either gay or straight. Sexual orientation emerges for most people in early adolescence.[/QUOTE]Fine, fine, it would be fun watching you tell that to Angelina Jolie. "Stop tribbing around and get back with Brad Pitt. It's not up to you cupcake: you were born straight! Here are a bunch of experts in what you feel. ".

Are people saying that guys have a choice of becoming gay or heterosexual, as they want? Does that mean that under some circumstances, some of the mongers here can see themselves being gay and being attracted to other men? That's interesting. Personally speaking, I have zero interest in any other man and you would not see me, under any circumstance, approach any other man with a 100 meter barge pole. As my name says, this cane is going up only a girls's ass, haha.

That said, if other mongers can switch between hetero or gay as the situation changes, good for them. Choice is what makes this world a better place, but my choice is made.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2290607]Is it demeaning to tell someone who is short that they couldn't have chosen to be tall? No. It is both true and not demeaning.

And just because someone's activity changes, does that mean they *willed* the change to happen? No. Attraction is not a choice, and changes in attraction are not a choice. One can choose whether to pursue the attraction or not, but the attraction is not a choice.

"Sexual orientation is a natural part of who you are it's not a choice. Your sexual orientation can change over your lifetime. ".

[URL]https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/sexual-orientation-gender/sexual-orientation/what-causes-sexual-orientation[/URL][/QUOTE]Just the idea that you quote planned parenthood: the organization who bases everything they do on human depopulation should ring a bell.

[QUOTE=CaneUppHosAss;2290652]That said, if other mongers can switch between hetero or gay as the situation changes, good for them. Choice is what makes this world a better place, but my choice is made.[/QUOTE]Yeah, but you know about FKK's. Gay Spanish guy doesn't.

And I keep bumping into the random guy at FKK's who ask me which girls does prostate massages. Something considered totally gay by most people. I suppose it is gay too, although I am unsure about the definition there.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2290621]It's not an act of will. The change in attraction happens first, and only then does one choose whether or not to pursue it.

I'll not judge your posts based on assumed abstract political affiliations. I will judge your posts negatively when they conflict with science.

From the American Psychological Association:

"Is Sexual Orientation a Choice?

No, human beings can not choose to be either gay or straight. Sexual orientation emerges for most people in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. Although we can choose whether to act on our feelings, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed. ".[/QUOTE]I agree with you that sexual orientation is not a choice. However, people often use science to promote the misleading concept that sexuality is directly genetic in nature. Just because it's not a choice does not mean that it is determined at birth. Rather, it's genetic disposition in combination with environmental activation. I have as much choice in finding men attractive as I find fat women to be attractive. I cannot just decide to like fat women. Evolution has predisposed me to be attracted to fit women and my environmental upbringing either reinforces or curtails that genetic predisposition. The same can be said with sexual orientation. One does not consciously choose it but it's misleading when some outlets imply that it is determined at birth.

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/sports/robert-kraft-jupiter-orchids-arrest.html[/URL]

Happens hundreds of times a day around the country as the embargo on pay as you go pussy. Fed up with sex prison. And many FDA blocks on good treatments available in Europe for what is really trade protection (as is protecting women only selling pussy on long term captive contracts in USA).

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2290767][URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/sports/robert-kraft-jupiter-orchids-arrest.html[/URL]

Happens hundreds of times a day around the country as the embargo on pay as you go pussy. Fed up with sex prison. And many FDA blocks on good treatments available in Europe for what is really trade protection (as is protecting women only selling pussy on long term captive contracts in USA).[/QUOTE]Even billionaires need tutes every now and then. Should went undercover to Brazil, Germany, or Thailand where nobody knows your face or name.

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2290767][URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/sports/robert-kraft-jupiter-orchids-arrest.html[/URL]

Happens hundreds of times a day around the country as the embargo on pay as you go pussy. Fed up with sex prison. And many FDA blocks on good treatments available in Europe for what is really trade protection (as is protecting women only selling pussy on long term captive contracts in USA).[/QUOTE]All he and are Kelly etc. Had to do was to fly over to some European nations, Brazil or other paid sex free destinations. Now they have to pay with their life and also it will cost them extra millions of USD for these prostitutes.

Buying tutes in this planet is clearly conducted in every nations, but safety of it is all about the locations. Also quality and price of tutes differ depending on locations too.

It is bit like weed, it is legal in some nations, but in other nations such possessions can be punished with life sentence to jail or even death penalty.

Those with certain appetites has to be well informed, disciplined and willing to travel to suited locations for their safety to fulfill their certain appetites. Thanks to technology and globalization, it is very easy to be informed and travel from one location to another.

I think Takedown nails an important aspect of it which can answer the environmentally different take the greeks had on gayness as opposed to today. And at the same time considering the slight differences we have in genetics.

While Neurosynth has a problem since he considers genetics to be 100% at fault, and nothing else. Then boxes people into groups. This approach can 100% not answer the fact that ancient greeks had their gyness culture. And I suppose that is why Neurosynth also avoids this part of the discussion.

There is also not one single gene determining gayness. On and off. If it was that easy, we could just make medicines to switch it on and off. It is probably several different genes that in a combination sways you to one side or the other. So instead of 2 boxes, you can have 20 million boxes. And good luck at naming each one of those! And still the boxes would be arbitrary. And then on top of that you have the environmental factors, which in turn may have on and off switches attached to it in combination with the genes. And on top of that again we see people swing back and forth such as Angelina Jolie, the old greeks etc etc. Gay at midday, straight in the afternoon.

Yes, the Kraft arrest sucks although I am not his or NE fan by any stretch. This is high profile, like Spitzer a while ago, and gives credence to the US is sex prison narrative. That is unfortunate, and it masks the reality that US is not particularly worse than many other countries for this hobby. It is not Germany or Thailand or Brazil but also not a repressed Moslem land where they fucking chop of hands, ears and balls not necessarily in that order for thinking the word sex.

This situation seems like a sting operation, and caught some high flying fish, always the goal in such operations. Even in Florida, every day millions of people are fucking and money changing hands. Kraft was either too stupid or careless or someone had him in sights and planned his downfall with meticulous care and a lot of malice.

The assumption you made Neurosynth, was that you defined environmental disposure to be a matter of free will, and choice. But free will is non existent. It is an illusion.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2290829]Even billionaires need tutes every now and then. Should went undercover to Brazil, Germany, or Thailand where nobody knows your face or name.[/QUOTE]Salaam Citizen, it often baffles us that the super-rich and famous make such bad choices. I often think and grieve over the mess Sayyid al-Gore got into, losing his houses because of a standard rub-and-tug that didn't even happen. Not to mention Sayyid al-Franken losing his senatorship over a couple of disputed gropes.

I think the moral of the story is: while it takes a lot of time to figure out how to earn good money, it also takes a lot of time to figure out how to [I]spend[/I] good money.

[QUOTE=Mr Ho;2290830]Thanks to technology and globalization, it is very easy to be informed and travel from one location to another.[/QUOTE]
No Ho-san, it is not that easy. The Internet is a trove of disinformation. You need to personally visit a country to know what it is really like. And if you want the Real Deal, It also helps a lot to learn the local languages. That is why it takes time to progress in life, and many billionaires never really make it to the top!

[QUOTE=Takedown;2290724]I agree with you that sexual orientation is not a choice. However, people often use science to promote the misleading concept that sexuality is directly genetic in nature. Just because it's not a choice does not mean that it is determined at birth. Rather, it's genetic disposition in combination with environmental activation. I have as much choice in finding men attractive as I find fat women to be attractive. I cannot just decide to like fat women. Evolution has predisposed me to be attracted to fit women and my environmental upbringing either reinforces or curtails that genetic predisposition. The same can be said with sexual orientation. One does not consciously choose it but it's misleading when some outlets imply that it is determined at birth.[/QUOTE]We are not in disagreement. There is evidence that genetics contribute to eventual sexual preference, but there is also evidence that environment has some influence.

But the nature / nurture issue isn't particularly relevant to the issue at hand, that being whether one can will their sexual preference to change. I know of no scientific evidence for willing a change in sexual preference, and any number of authorities agree.

Again, not that you are disagreeing with this.

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2290767][URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/sports/robert-kraft-jupiter-orchids-arrest.html[/URL][/QUOTE]Reading this article about the billionaire sports team owner, it seems to suggest the police faked a bomb threat then planted video cameras in the massage parlor while it was being "evacuated". So it sounds like Mr Kraft might have been caught in the act on video tape. Guess this monitoring does not violate "privacy".

Makes you wonder if this could happen in the FKK? There is the same suspicion of "WG traffic" in Germany, so would authorities use this as the basis to monitor what happens inside FKK rooms? Would they devote such resources to conduct a witch hunt on sexual acts without the "preservative"? [B]Neurosynth, I forget your catch phrase about this![/B] At one point, you repeated ad nauseam, so I should remember. My apologies.

Second thought is Mr Kraft, being rich and famous, probably should have looked for a sugar baby.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2290715]Just the idea that you quote planned parenthood: the organization who bases everything they do on human depopulation should ring a bell.[/QUOTE]Who needs science when we can all have our own different facts, and we can substitute political affiliation for critical thinking, right?

Look, I also posted what the American Psychological Association has to say on this. (They say sexual preference isn't a choice. And even if preference changes, it's not a choice.).

How many experts do I have to post? Is there any amount of expertise or evidence that would change your mind? Maybe if you loosen the band on your MAGA hat.

Until then, please post scientific evidence that sexual preference can be willed to change. I doubt you will find any real experts on your side. Maybe some of the "pray your gay away" kooks. They are not scientists.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2291047]And even if preference changes, it's not a choice.
[/QUOTE]That's pretty much how I would define choice. As Sartre said, [I]L'homme est condamne etre libre.[/I]

For example: everyone loves pussy just like everyone loves Doritos. But if I see a girl has been munching too hard on either, I am going to hold her responsible for the [B]choices[/B] she has made. If she says, "But Poly you know how delicious it is, and we were all born with this raging desire, it's out of my control!" I am going to call that a cop-out. It's like, "So how come all your life you were sucking on something wholesome like asparagus or cream of dick, and then one day you got fat? You're telling me the gene just flipped?" Sure we all have desires, but we can choose whether to act on them or not.

Apropos of nothing, just wondering if the island of Lesbos accepts male visitors these days? Asking for a friend.

I agree with the APA, Neurosynth and Takedown on the issue: sexuality is a not a choice. The combination of nature / nurture sounds reasonable, but my personal opinion (not fact) is that it is probably 70-80 percent nature. I would be curious if biology has ever confirmed this. For instance, psychopaths, on average, have an amygdala that is 18 percent smaller.

I have known a few homosexuals who come from conservative family and religious upbringings. From listening to them, I get the impression that they would have paid any amount of money if there were some therapy that could actually make them heterosexual. They were that desperate. If it was simply a choice, then they would have made the easy choice to be heterosexual in order to appease their family, religion, and well society.

A homosexual can make the choice to live a heterosexual (or even asexual) lifestyle. In other words, deny their sexual desires and not act on them. That is not technically changing their sexual orientation.

I have also known a girl who went through a phase experimenting with girls. She is the hipster, alternative lifestyle type who likes to experiment and prides herself on being "open-minded". She even talks about polyamory. But in the end, she concluded that she is indeed heterosexual. So despite temporarily living a homosexual lifestyle and committing homosexual acts, she was also not able to change her sexual orientation.

Homosexual acts occur in prison. I suspect a portion of them are heterosexual men who choose to commit homosexual acts while in prison. And another portion of them are homosexual men who lived in "denial" of their sexuality prior to being imprisoned.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2291040]But the nature / nurture issue isn't particularly relevant to the issue at hand, that being whether one can will their sexual preference to change. I know of no scientific evidence for willing a change in sexual preference, and any number of authorities agree.

Again, not that you are disagreeing with this.[/QUOTE]I believe you were the one constructing the idea that people can choose it. Not me.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2291059]I agree with the APA, Neurosynth and Takedown on the issue: sexuality is a not a choice. The combination of nature / nurture sounds reasonable, but my personal opinion (not fact) is that it is probably 70-80 percent nature. I would be curious if biology has ever confirmed this. For instance, psychopaths, on average, have an amygdala that is 18 percent smaller.

Homosexual acts occur in prison. I suspect a portion of them are heterosexual men who choose to commit homosexual acts while in prison. And another portion of them are homosexual men who lived in "denial" of their sexuality prior to being imprisoned.[/QUOTE]1. Problem is Neurosynth bases his entire criticism of my initial story on the assumption that there is something known as free will and choice. I never said that. So the entire discussion is completely flawed and seems to be based on false grounds. Determinism doesn't allow for free will or choice.

2. Also in the military. Basically in situations where men are not allowed pussy. So in essence you point at an example similar to the initial story I wrote.

P.S: American psychology foundation or whatever also has tons of stories about determinism. So there are either opposing viewpoints there, or like my view: no choice exist.

My take on genetics vs environment is that genetics changes through millennia based on the environment. So genetics is also a result of determinism. And then gayness is too 100%. Even if parts of it goes through the station known as 'genes'.

I think if you disagree with my stance you might want to read more about determinism.

A certain percent of population are bisexual. It is possible for them to be with both sexes.

Homosexual people forced to be in heterosexual relations- happened throughout history, given that homosexuality was taboo, even a crime and led to downfall and potentially punishment even death. Many many men led secret lives, and probably just as many women did, and probably were confused, frustrated and unhappy but could not do much about it.

Heterosexual people forced to be in homosexual relations - not very common historically because homosexuality was never a societal norm.

As a gentleman wrote below, in certain situations like prisons etc this last one may occur-- more as a crime and as an act of vengeance.

Some heterosexual people may also will themselves to be in homosexuality relations for commercial reasons -- gigolos, porn stars, escorts, FKK girls. I would imagine it must be tough for them to go through with it but perhaps the carrot of money sweetens what may be a very unpleasant experience.

Is it tougher for a homosexual to force self to participate in a hetero act or is it more difficult for a hetero to force self to go through a home act? As a strictly hetero man, it is well nigh impossible for me to willingly go through such an experience. Can't imagine doing it for any amount of money, but then again I have not lacked money for a long time and hence money alone doesn't feel like a huge incentive. Perhaps if someone put a gun to my head, I might go through with a homosexual act but it was not a willful act.

If homosexuality was a simple choice, one would think that the offer of a strong enough incentive will make you accept that choice. For me, personally speaking, no financial offer is tempting enough to make that choice of my free will.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2291032]Salaam Citizen, it often baffles us that the super-rich and famous make such bad choices. I often think and grieve over the mess Sayyid al-Gore got into, losing his houses because of a standard rub-and-tug that didn't even happen. Not to mention Sayyid al-Franken losing his senatorship over a couple of disputed gropes.

I think the moral of the story is: while it takes a lot of time to figure out how to earn good money, it also takes a lot of time to figure out how to [I]spend[/I] good money.


No Ho-san, it is not that easy. The Internet is a trove of disinformation. You need to personally visit a country to know what it is really like. And if you want the Real Deal, It also helps a lot to learn the local languages. That is why it takes time to progress in life, and many billionaires never really make it to the top![/QUOTE]Yes, you are right, first time I went to Artemis in 2009 or 2010, I could not believe what kind of heaven I just walked into and what these girls for just 60 euro per 30 min? I was happy that I made that decision to actually fly all the way to Berlin because I went to Berlin just to checked the place out called FKK I heard about.

And yes, also one can be good at business does not mean they are good at something else also. Mongering world is odd thing because we men all want it, but only some men bother to go further to discover what is really out there by seeking the best place to monger.

Considering I mentioned this extensively in the last discussion in this thread. But then an entire new discussion comes up on the grounds that posters didn't read the last comments regarding determinism. I suppose I could write post #11 regarding determinism.

Or, I could just post a link to a good article I just googled. Since nobody else seems to want to try out google on their own. And because I am a bit lazy at writing now:

[URL]https://www.simplypsychology.org/freewill-determinism.html[/URL]

I downloaded it and enclose here. Extremely creepy and invasive voyeurism on the public purse and the destruction of lives between willing and consensual participants. They sat watching it for days and even doing cum testing. It blows my mind that they invade the place under a fake emergency and then spy on peoples most intimate moments. Is there much difference between this and say filming up ladies skirts at shopping malls etc? And they PROUDLY publicize it. Sickos.

I'm quite disgusted to live in a country that allows this. All in the name of saving women from themselves and the yet to be identified trafficking (would this include airlines and Uber and Starbucks that enable the ladies) , unless of course the victims are homeless or starving or the demunanized, beaten and abused inhabitants the private prison cartel that is kept fully stocked- and countless other examples.

Thank goodness for Europe and Asia. I'm note sure went wrong in USA, this thrived in the 1800's with no worries. The creeping Nordic model is a very dangerous war on men. Or ideology. Justified by some very weak and evidence free zone justifications. I am not sure what gets in the heads of people who criminalise a basic, essential human act: sex being the very cause of our existence and purpose to reproduce and source of joy to so many. It just creeps me out thinking of some cop. On our dime. In a grey cubicle poring over this and laughs at the station. It is like the German movie "Lives of Others" (Das Leben der Anderen) about the Stasi and their taping and filming people going about their lives. Very easy to target political enemies with a pulse once we go down this path.

FKK, here I come, with safety, taxes paid, and good clean, legal fun, out in the open and well regulated.

Yes Mr Ho.

The discovery of FKKs about a decade ago and long before that Thailand was amazing. I am always amazed at the smiles and camaraderie of the men in these places who enjoy but don't make a full time existence out of it and have a real life. I doubt war would be possible with enough pretty and willing girls, booze, food and pleasure. Beautiful women throwing themselves at us. We are like satiated lions at a banquet of gazelles or wild game and endless hunting on fertile fields.

Everytime I arrive back it is like being a child discovering fun again. I expect many readers here are the same. It's why we hang out here. Seeking joy in life as is the natural imperative and point of it all. And yes, some billionaires miss the boat like everybody else who does not shop around widely and go for it when opportunity knocks.

Why on earth is anyone against this in mostly well regulated societies done openly and with the full enthusiastic consent and entrepreneurial girls trying to attract customers in a meritocracy? Who wants to consign us to barren Savannah with no food to starve?

Fat American heifer women finding themselves short of men who refuse to put up with their lazy and complacent ways, letting themselves go, and indulgent moaning are the ones that seem to want pussy trade protection and a few others in their brigade to save the world. Liberal arts bull dykes or fugly, self righteous types seem to be the culprits telling other people what they can do with their bodies, say or think. Their arguments, quite a misnomer, are unpersuasive and simply mindless sheep like baaaaing in agreement amongst themselves. They are fighting evolution itself. Ironically their DNA is unlikely to be replicated.

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2291256]Thank goodness for Europe and Asia.[/QUOTE]And Latin America too my friend! Let's not forget the chicas and the garotas!

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2291261]Yes Mr Ho.

The discovery of FKKs about a decade ago and long before that Thailand was amazing. I am always amazed at the smiles and camaraderie of the men in these places who enjoy but don't make a full time existence out of it and have a real life. I doubt war would be possible with enough pretty and willing girls, booze, food and pleasure. Beautiful women throwing themselves at us. We are like satiated lions at a banquet of gazelles or wild game and endless hunting on fertile fields.

Everytime I arrive back it is like being a child discovering fun again. I expect many readers here are the same. It's why we hang out here. Seeking joy in life as is the natural imperative and point of it all. And yes, some billionaires miss the boat like everybody else who does not shop around widely and go for it when opportunity knocks..[/QUOTE]Yes, you are right, right after good sex with beautiful women, the last thing men want is to fight or be aggressive.

FKK format is the good example of German liberalism and their good organizational culture admitting that even you forbid prostitution, it just go underground and make society worst, so let organize it and regulate it on proper format such as FKK as we see today. Happy us mongers LOL!

Once upon a time, sex with beautiful girls one after another was limited and access was granted with rather tough conditions, one of that is marriage etc. , but now it is no longer like that and some men like us who are willing to go extra mile to discover are now liberated with such restriction, it is sex on demand that we can choose.

I can see feminist going against that, but only thing I can say to them is that, do not hate the players, hate the game LOL!

We live in lucky era, so it is wise to put old mentality aside when it comes to this and enjoy young beauties that are waiting for us to fuck them for moderate costs. After all, all we get out of this life is good memories. So let us collect that in many formats and one of that is fucking beautiful girls one after another.

As you say, fucking beautiful girls for masculine men are like hope in life that one can never get bored of. I calm down a lot, but still as you said, I got drive also before entering FKK on first day of trip straight from airport to FKK because once I change and walk into main bar of FKK, new guaranteed encounters are there waiting for me. It is like we arrange new fateful sexual meeting that only happen few times in life over and over again ourselves by going there.

I monger here in Tokyo too mostly beautiful Eurasian girls, which is good, but German FKK is good for me for white girls and also thanks to German liberal immigration policies that I also enjoy fucking many beauties from all different nations to serve my lust for exotic beauties who are often half German white and half something else like Arab, Iranian etc. We are lucky to live in this era.

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2291261]Why on earth is anyone against this in mostly well regulated societies done openly and with the full enthusiastic consent and entrepreneurial girls trying to attract customers in a meritocracy? Who wants to consign us to barren Savannah with no food to starve?[/QUOTE]The idea is that men cannot have something not also women would have the same access to. And given girls can have sex 20 times a day, and men over time perhaps only can have sex 3 times a day (dick will go soft, and on ugly women even softer), biology makes this trade so extremely much harder to replicate in a feminist society that wants everything the same as men.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2291040]We are not in disagreement. There is evidence that genetics contribute to eventual sexual preference, but there is also evidence that environment has some influence.

But the nature / nurture issue isn't particularly relevant to the issue at hand, that being whether one can will their sexual preference to change. I know of no scientific evidence for willing a change in sexual preference, and any number of authorities agree.

Again, not that you are disagreeing with this.[/QUOTE]I am a member of my gym for 20+ years. Back in time in the men's shower room there were no stalls, everybody showered in the open. In about 2005 the operator installed the stalls with closed doors. Only few people used them first couple of years at times like early mornings when showers were crowded. Nowadays it changed to the exact opposite, most new club members and most younger guys go to the stalls to shower and do it in and out neatly wrapped in a towel.

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2291256]I am not sure what gets in the heads of people who criminalise a basic, essential human act: sex being the very cause of our existence and purpose to reproduce and source of joy to so many. It just creeps me out thinking of some cop. On our dime. In a grey cubicle poring over this and laughs at the station.[/QUOTE]An utter disrespect to people's privacy for "justified" causes is a new norm. A frustration for people with basic decency, joy for shameless feminists.

What gets in the heads of people who criminalize our hobby? Majority of women lacking love for sex equate prostitution with spreading HIV and other horrible disease. Therefore, every prostitute working in such "despicable" conditions must be a forced worker. No human being can do this by via consensual choice. Of course every sex worker is a victim of trafficking. Plus all money earned by poor victims goes to the pimps anyways by definition. Applause! USA, USA.

Hello Sir,

A lot of frustration, dejection and angst. While predictable, I would recommend to tone down the hyperbole. It is not uncommon to have these high profile examples making busts once a decade or so. But the debate has shifted a long time ago in the US. Most people recognize the invasion of privacy, the abuse heaped on a rich but private citizen who is widowed and not even technically cheating. In the end, this will make very limited dent in any practical matter. Knowledgeable mongers have survived and done well for themselves in the US and yes believe it or not, fucking goes on in the US. If the Kraft story is used as a pretext to simply heap scorn on the US in forums like this, so be it but the reality is not as bad as what's sometimes portrayed in angst ridden comments.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2291047] ...

Look, I also posted what the American Psychological Association has to say on this. (They say sexual preference isn't a choice. And even if preference changes, it's not a choice.).

[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2291054]That's pretty much how I would define choice. As Sartre said, [I]L'homme est condamne etre libre.[/I]

...
[/QUOTE]Changing one's sexual preference towards men would mean that at some point one found men not-attractive, but wished one could find them attractive, and then from there *somehow* attraction would develop.

If one wants to stumble towards the intellectual tar pit that is the question of free will, that's always possible. And not terribly pragmatic.

In all other matters we don't assume that just because something changes it is because it was willed to change. Objects fall because of gravity, but that doesn't mean the objects "wanted" to fall. There is something similar here. Some combination of factors will cause a person to change in sexual preference. That doesn't mean the change was willed. Choice is not simply being there when a change happens. It's only choice when it has causal force.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2290882]While Neurosynth has a problem since he considers genetics to be 100% at fault, and nothing else. Then boxes people into groups. This approach can 100% not answer the fact that ancient greeks had their gyness culture. And I suppose that is why Neurosynth also avoids this part of the discussion.[/QUOTE]I never said that. I said sexual preference is not a choice. If it's 100% caused by genetics, it's not a choice. If it's 100% caused by environment, it's not a choice. And if it's a combination, it's not a choice.

And if Greece had a "gyness (sic) culture" it was only possible because there was attraction.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2291084]1. Problem is Neurosynth bases his entire criticism of my initial story on the assumption that there is something known as free will and choice. I never said that. So the entire discussion is completely flawed and seems to be based on false grounds. Determinism doesn't allow for free will or choice.
. . .

[/QUOTE]So now you are contradicting yourself. Which do you believe, that sexual orientation can or cannot be a matter of choice? You were opposed to the notion that orientation is not a choice. I. e. You were arguing in favor of orientation being a choice. Now you are saying that, essentially, nothing is a choice.

Make up your mind.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2291335]The idea is that men cannot have something not also women would have the same access to. And given girls can have sex 20 times a day, and men over time perhaps only can have sex 3 times a day (dick will go soft, and on ugly women even softer), biology makes this trade so extremely much harder to replicate in a feminist society that wants everything the same as men.[/QUOTE]So you object to feminism because men can't have 20 orgasms a day? This is why society should oppress women and deny them equal rights under the law and in social practice?

What's next, because black men have (slightly) longer penises, they should also be oppressed by white men?

Do you even know what feminism means?

[QUOTE=Pistons;2291335]The idea is that men cannot have something not also women would have the same access to. And given girls can have sex 20 times a day, and men over time perhaps only can have sex 3 times a day (dick will go soft, and on ugly women even softer), biology makes this trade so extremely much harder to replicate in a feminist society that wants everything the same as men.[/QUOTE]Wait till the science kicks in, I am sure soon or later men will be able to have sex 20 times per day with no problem with stronger orgasms LOL!

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2291261]
Why on earth is anyone against this in mostly well regulated societies done openly and with the full enthusiastic consent and entrepreneurial girls trying to attract customers in a meritocracy? Who wants to consign us to barren Savannah with no food to starve?[/QUOTE]Cui bono? Big employers.

The 19th century "They'll work harder if they're hungry" evolved to the 20th century "They'll work harder if they're not screwing all the time and smoking weed. " America in particular is like a big experiment in sex deprivation. And in a way this is effective: people work longer hours than in other countries. The problem is most of this by now is just makework. And soon robots (like self-driving trucks) will take the last real jobs.

Here is a reminder of Maslow's hierarchy of needs:

[URL]https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Maslow%27s_Hierarchy_of_Needs.svg[/URL]

The idea is that you can't progress to the higher needs until you have first satisfied the basic ones. For instance if you are suffering from a toothache you won't be obsessing about gaining respect from your fellow professionals.

Food is at the base of the pyramid, but so is sex. What happens if there is a constant sexual deficit as with many young American males? The danger is that the individual remains fixed at a pre teen level of psychosexual development (Freud's [I]latency[/I] period).

Women do not have such a problem finding sex in the US and so they can move on and develop a higher Emotional Intelligence than men -- sadly they will often use this in a manipulative way!

People who suffer a sexual gap need to fill that somehow. The need is not always going to be sublimated in a productive way. At a time of unprecedented wealth, suicides and drug overdoses are at a record high in the US. Even life expectancy has started to decline.

Meanwhile those of us guys who have finally closed the gap in the FKK world should not view this as a final shore but a base on which to continue our psychosocial development -- climbing Maslow's pyramid.

Since I am not a credentialed psychologist, some people on this thread will follow a pattern of saying I have no right to comment on these matters where "experts" from the American Psychological Association have already determined scientific truth. Well, what has the APA been up to recently?

[URL]https://medium.com/gender-studies-for-men/quackery-snake-oil-and-charlatans-the-psychologists-associations-war-on-men-and-boys-a37a1ef9c0ab[/URL]

So much for "science". It sounds like the organization has been taken over by Nurse Ratched types. This is an example of how the sexual dysfunction at the base of the Western individual's mind is paralleled by a dysfunction in the shared pool of knowledge: a poison of myriad fallacies circulating up through science, education, the Internet, etc. And so we must fall back on our own personal experiences to know the real truth.

"The wise man speaks of what he sees, the idiot of what he hears. " -- Old Arab saying.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2291547]Here is a reminder of Maslow's hierarchy of needs:....[/QUOTE]Well, here is a reminder of a later form of Maslow's hierarchy of needs (revised model dating from 1970), some of the levels are not indicated in the english version of Wikipedia:

[URL]https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Erweiterte_Bedrfnishierarchie_%281970%29_nach_Maslow.png[/URL]

Abraham Maslow died 1970. From 1980 on until nowadays, Ken Wilber has developed his "integral theory" model which is far more complex and differentiated. Again, (only) in the german version of wikipedia, there is a summary table showing different levels indicating human development under different perspectives (section "Theorie der Ebenen"). One of the columns in this table (far left) is the Maslow hierarchy.

Human beings are for sure a bit more complex than Maslows model, suited mainly for the western societies.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2291547]Cui bono? Big employers.

Here is a reminder of Maslow's hierarchy of needs:

[URL]https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Maslow%27s_Hierarchy_of_Needs.svg[/URL]....

Food is at the base of the pyramid, but so is sex. What happens if there is a constant sexual deficit as with many young American males? ...

[/QUOTE]Eerh no, sex is not at the base of the Maslow pyramid. More like at the upper middle it seems.

Making big employers the primary winners is just a re-serving of marxist conspiracy theories. Women are the winners. Women will stop trading sex for resources as soon as they can get one tenth of the same resources through other means.

That's why in Today's world we now have cities of 15 to 20 millions with hardly any opportunity for a non wealthy straight man to get laid. Very sad and not at all what we would have predicted some 40 years ago when cheap air travel put sex travel within reach of the average man.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2291468]So you object to feminism because men can't have 20 orgasms a day? This is why society should oppress women and deny them equal rights under the law and in social practice?

What's next, because black men have (slightly) longer penises, they should also be oppressed by white men?

Do you even know what feminism means?[/QUOTE]Can you please stop wasting my bandwidth with useless assumption regarding things I have never uttered? Take your fake news elsewhere.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2291466]I never said that. I said sexual preference is not a choice. If it's 100% caused by genetics, it's not a choice. If it's 100% caused by environment, it's not a choice. And if it's a combination, it's not a choice.

And if Greece had a "gyness (sic) culture" it was only possible because there was attraction.

So now you are contradicting yourself. Which do you believe, that sexual orientation can or cannot be a matter of choice? You were opposed to the notion that orientation is not a choice. I. e. You were arguing in favor of orientation being a choice. Now you are saying that, essentially, nothing is a choice.

Make up your mind.[/QUOTE]1. Post #12834:

[QUOTE=Pistons;2280096]I am for example sometimes lazy with my spelling, especially outside of work when I write on a phone. Because I just type fast and don't mind with spellchecking too much. It looks incredibly unprofessional you might say.

Here are two opposite takes on how to look at misspellings:

[URL]https://www.inc.com/peter-economy/17-spelling-errors-that-make-you-look-really-unprofessional.html[/URL]

[URL]https://gizmodo.com/study-people-who-point-out-typos-are-jerks-1767969516[/URL]

So basically, a misspelling is claimed to seem unprofessional. This has gone so far as that nobody would object to it. And not strangely so due to how school teachers grade you on your spelling. But also, if you believe in that, science claims you are also a jerk. Since even if you don't always point it out, you may think so without saying it.[/QUOTE][blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]

2. I never wrote it was a choice either. Simply due to choice being an illusion (read: determinism). Something I referred to over 5 times in the last discussion in this thread too. Just 1-2 weeks ago.

I just reread all my posts here, and I definitely never did write anyone chooses anything. Please quote me on that. And don't edit a quote if you want to continue with your fake news. This was an assumption you made. And I suspect it was due to you not understanding what determinism really is.

3. I was arguing in favor of you wasting my bandwidth. Nothing else. Because you don't seem to want to read. You just seem to want to assume.

I agree with Polyamorist here. His stance is backed pretty well by anthropological theory. There was also a leaked document from CIA in the 70's, referred to in several books, claiming that the reason women got the power to vote, and the push for feminism was approved, was to sex starve men in order to make men work harder.

Call it a conspiracy theory if you want. I call it logic. And a bit of machiavellianism.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2291656]1. Post #12834:

2. I never wrote it was a choice either. Simply due to choice being an illusion (read: determinism). Something I referred to over 5 times in the last discussion in this thread too. Just 1-2 weeks ago.

I just reread all my posts here, and I definitely never did write anyone chooses anything. Please quote me on that. And don't edit a quote if you want to continue with your fake news. This was an assumption you made. And I suspect it was due to you not understanding what determinism really is.
[/QUOTE]Mispellings and typos are one thing. The consistent use of incorrect words and lack of appropriate punctuation completely alters the meaning of your sentences. Often times, they are incomprehensible.

No one cares about free will versus determinism arguments because it is not a pragmatic topic. They will always lead to a nihilistic end. One would think you would take a hint from the lack of responses to the habitual introduction of abstract topics that serve no purpose. Dropping a line about existential philosophy, doesn't make one smart. It just means you watched a 10 minute YouTube video.

Also there is something to be said about other people who habitually use proverbs and quotations. A well placed quotation is effective in conveying complex idioms. Their overuse displays the ability inability to communicate original thought.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2291656]I never wrote it was a choice either. . . . I just reread all my posts here, and I definitely never did write anyone chooses anything. Please quote me on that. And don't edit a quote if you want to continue with your fake news. . . .
[/QUOTE]Here is what you said.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2289520]
. . . Another guy I knew once was gay. He lived in a big city with over 5 million people. Had been rejected by several girls early in his life, and eventually turned gay to find comfort. . . . [/QUOTE]He "turned gay" to "find comfort. " That indicates an intention to change. It indicates you think making a choice to change attraction is possible. When I pointed out that attraction is not a choice, your (purely political and unscientific) disagreement with that couldn't have been more clear.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2290288]LOL, give me a break! Take your sjw ideas elsewhere. Because on me they don't stick. I follow logic and not media stories fed to the general public zombie listeners.
. . . And your assumptions throughout your comment puts you straight into the neoliberal box defining category Nick the g talks about. .[/QUOTE]And as if that wasn't enough, you go further in raising know-nothing political bias over science.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2285589] . . . Media companies get extremely well paid in order to force through paradigm changes on grand scales. One such thing is the 'global warming'. So not all paradigm changes happens organically. Some do, but also some are forced through with the help of the media.[/QUOTE]There's more of course. And what it all has in common is a knee-jerk rejection of any science that provides evidence counter to your politics. As if given a choice between the American Psychological Association and some random guy on the internet, we should go with the latter.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2291656]3. I was arguing in favor of you wasting my bandwidth. Nothing else. Because you don't seem to want to read. You just seem to want to assume.[/QUOTE]Oh I read. It's just that unlike you I don't think wearing a MAGA hat "Trumps" expertise in matters of science. I don't limit my reading to politicians who think that facts, evidence, and scientific objectivity should bend to their greed.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2291782]I agree with Polyamorist here. His stance is backed pretty well by anthropological theory. There was also a leaked document from CIA in the 70's, referred to in several books, claiming that the reason women got the power to vote, and the push for feminism was approved, was to sex starve men in order to make men work harder.
[/QUOTE]Jazakallah, Pistons, dead right. Gloria Steinem for one was notorious for working with the CIA. Meanwhile the philanthropic arm of the CIA, the Ford Foundation, funded feminism in the universities, creating the first Women's Studies program in San Diego in 1969 and hundreds more after that. It's also a big funder of Planned Parenthood.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2291854]Here is what you said.

He "turned gay" to "find comfort. " That indicates an intention to change. It indicates you think making a choice to change attraction is possible. When I pointed out that attraction is not a choice, your (purely political and unscientific) disagreement with that couldn't have been more clear.[/QUOTE]Congratulations on finding 5 quotes where absolutely none of them says I used the word choice! The 'turned gay' to 'find comfort' is a deterministic reaction to an environment. It does not mean he chose it.

Takedown: blah blah blah. Again you don't even understand determinism. And what it leads to is merely assumptions, as nobody knows. Saying anything else is definitely nihilistic!. Narrow minds are unable to think, I know. But that is why people should stop with their own facist ideology. Like cult behavior, and not oppress people with other viewpoints.

(And you also didn't hit all the links regarding misspellings).

[QUOTE=Takedown;2291821] Dropping a line about existential philosophy, doesn't make one smart. It just means you watched a 10 minute YouTube video..[/QUOTE]OK then. Given your logic. Dropping a line on being a doctor who has studied genetics doesn't make you a doctor. It just makes you a high school student who has seen a 10 minute youtube film and read one page at school about A, T, C and G. And general kindergarden stuff about DNA and RNA.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2291821]No one cares about free will versus determinism arguments because it is not a pragmatic topic. They will always lead to a nihilistic end.[/QUOTE]Let me just expand on this one:

1. I just pointed to how the deterministic approach was pragmatic in my response to Neurosynth above.

2. Regarding the nihilistic end, it depends on what you mean by that. But assuming you mean that I will find the results I want to seek out, then you are wrong. Because that is why Popper says what he says: In so far as a scientific statement speaks about reality, it must be falsifiable; and in so far as it is not falsifiable, it does not speak about reality.

So we test the hypothesis. In other words, the scientific approach. Before they are tested, they are only assumptions. But of course, if you take an assumption for a fact, then it can be nihilistic.

But you can always have these puppeteers, or octopuses who tries to distort our views. Due to their power over us. I must add that this power to act as a puppeteer (or octopus) is not a choice they take, but a result of the medium they have been put into. Examples of such octopuses who distorts our views, are all forms of mass media. And all forms of cult hierarchy and leaders. And that is a very wide distinction.

A problem just arises with all of this we call 'conspiracy theories'. Because they cannot 100% be falsified. So we cannot be 100% sure about them. They are assumptions. But given the Machiavellian theory on secrecy, the entire state apparatus forces these ideas forth. And they have their own merits too. As a criticism of the Machiavellian approach. Which I honestly think was a joke to begin with.

[URL]https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/mar/03/have-we-got-machiavelli-all-wrong[/URL]

P.S: I would not vote for Donald Trump. But he is smart in the way that he does not allways make his stance so obvious at first hands. While many other politicians make their stance on trade and international organizations clear way in advance. Before the deals are made.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2291854]And as if that wasn't enough, you go further in raising know-nothing political bias over science.

Oh I read. It's just that unlike you I don't think wearing a MAGA hat "Trumps" expertise in matters of science. I don't limit my reading to politicians who think that facts, evidence, and scientific objectivity should bend to their greed.[/QUOTE]The "enlightened" pair's ignorance and socio-political bias is further exemplified when associating Planned Parenthood with some sort of liberal feminism. It seems that they bought into the brain washing of demonizing PP, as if providing sexual and reproductive services such as STD treatment, birth control, and cancer screening is something to be condemned. Damn conspiracy theorists, they just throw the kitchen sink at the wall and if one thing sticks, they give themselves a pat in the back as if they're some sort of soothsayer.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2291940]OK then. Given your logic. Dropping a line on being a doctor who has studied genetics doesn't make you a doctor. It just makes you a high school student who has seen a 10 minute youtube film and read one page at school about A, T, C and G. And general kindergarden stuff about DNA and RNA.[/QUOTE]I'm pretty sure my undergraduate degree in molecular biology makes me plenty qualified to speak about genetics. Pffft.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2291938]Takedown: blah blah blah. Again you don't even understand determinism. And what it leads to is merely assumptions, as nobody knows. Saying anything else is definitely nihilistic!. Narrow minds are unable to think, I know. But that is why people should stop with their own facist ideology. Like cult behavior, and not oppress people with other viewpoints.

(And you also didn't hit all the links regarding misspellings).[/QUOTE]Another statement that addresses offshoot points, displaying the wrong understanding of words, lacking a coherent direction, and interjecting irrelevant topics, as per usual.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2291950]The "enlightened" pair's ignorance and socio-political bias is further exemplified when associating Planned Parenthood with some sort of liberal feminism. It seems that they bought into the brain washing of demonizing PP, as if providing sexual and reproductive services such as STD treatment, birth control, and cancer screening is something to be condemned. Damn conspiracy theorists, they just throw the kitchen sink at the wall and if one thing sticks, they give themselves a pat in the back as if they're some sort of soothsayer.[/QUOTE]Every civilization in the history of earth has found some ways of population control to limit its own population. Especially for humans, this is of key importance since we are at the top of the food chain and has no other real enemies than ourselves. If we didn't find these way, then there would be 100 billion people in the world!

So, the idea that it is a conspiracy theory that planned parenthood is there as a means of population control is beyond me. And to think that abortions, condoms and the promotion of gays and lesbians have absolutely nothing to do with avoiding babies being born, and the human population to increase. Well, in what reality are all of you people (Takedown and Neurosynth at least) living in?

Anyway. All I can do is laugh all the way to the bank. Since this clearly shows how effective propaganda is. LOL!

Best book you can read: The Art of War. By Sun Tsu!

[QUOTE=Pistons;2292025]Every civilization in the history of earth has found some ways of population control to limit its own population. Especially for humans, this is of key importance since we are at the top of the food chain and has no other real enemies than ourselves. If we didn't find these way, then there would be 100 billion people in the world!

So, the idea that it is a conspiracy theory that planned parenthood is there as a means of population control is beyond me. And to think that abortions, condoms and the promotion of gays and lesbians have absolutely nothing to do with avoiding babies being born, and the human population to increase. Well, in what reality are all of you people (Takedown and Neurosynth at least) living in?

Anyway. All I can do is laugh all the way to the bank. Since this clearly shows how effective propaganda is. LOL!

Best book you can read: The Art of War. By Sun Tsu![/QUOTE]Right on schedule and supporting my point of hanging on to offshoot topics and missing the main idea, as per usual. ESL kids. Referencing a book that you've never read doesn't make you seem any smarter.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2292025]So, the idea that it is a conspiracy theory that planned parenthood is there as a means of population control is beyond me. And to think that abortions, condoms and the promotion of gays and lesbians have absolutely nothing to do with avoiding babies being born, and the human population to increase. Well, in what reality are all of you people (Takedown and Neurosynth at least) living in?

Anyway. All I can do is laugh all the way to the bank. Since this clearly shows how effective propaganda is. LOL!
[/QUOTE]BTW, good job uncovering that Planned Parenthood conspiracy. They only literally outright call it [B]birth control[/B]. Not sure how we would have figured that one out without conspiracy theory nutjobs pointing these things out.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2292236] Referencing a book that you've never read doesn't make you seem any smarter.[/QUOTE]It is not too long. The translation I got is only 37 pages. Introduction speaks of him teaching military drills to a bunch of concubines. What more can we ask for really? LOL!

[QUOTE=Pistons;2292335]It is not too long. The translation I got is only 37 pages. Introduction speaks of him teaching military drills to a bunch of concubines. What more can we ask for really? LOL![/QUOTE]Sun Tzu was proving a point to his emperor. He can make anyone & anybody into a standing army. His tactics were very effective & can still be used in today.

US Presidential Candidate Kamala Harris is on the record saying she supports the legalization of prostitution between legal consenting adults.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2292025]Every civilization in the history of earth has found some ways of population control to limit its own population. Especially for humans, this is of key importance since we are at the top of the food chain and has no other real enemies than ourselves. If we didn't find these way, then there would be 100 billion people in the world!
[/QUOTE]Unfortunately, the point can be used for nefarious purposes. In 1969 (the same year that the first Women's Studies program was set up) a man called Paul Ehrlich predicted that the world would literally come to an end within 15 years due to overpopulation. A wave of hysteria ensued, resulting in 6 million forced sterilisations in India (for starters), the one-child policy in China, and so on. The CIA had the best excuse ever to meddle in the politics of developing nations.

The money was funneled through "charitable" foundations like Ford and Rockefeller. These institutes were staffed by experts who had as much pride in their skills in "psychological warfare" as certain forum members have in pushing your buttons, Pistons. (By the way you are not under any obligation to reply to people who are not contributing any information of their own. There is no argument you need to "win" here.).

"A troll is like a bad dream: it may seem to dominate you, but ultimately it needs your attention to carry on existing. " -- old Norse proverb of dubious origin.

Polyamorist: You are right. But admin keeps censoring me, so I have no idea which comments gets though. Either way, the silly thing is that the deniers are not even sure what a conspiracy theory is. At one point it is a conspiracy. Next moment they admit it obviously isn't, given it is called birth control. The intellect is so low it needs to be shown. Thus I like to compare humans to monkeys.

Polyamorist, please keep posting your hilarious stuff. You nearly always raise a smile for me. Takedown is even more acerbic. The quote "A troll is like a bad dream: it may seem to dominate you, but ultimately it needs your attention to carry on existing. " -- old Norse proverb of dubious origin.

Is doubly funny. This can also be applied to narcissism and many others (and I suspect me at times). "Of dubious origin" - all true even though it never happened.

Heh heh.

Any decent websites similar to kinky. NL that cover Germany?

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2292621]Polyamorist, please keep posting your hilarious stuff. You nearly always raise a smile for me. Takedown is even more acerbic. The quote "A troll is like a bad dream: it may seem to dominate you, but ultimately it needs your attention to carry on existing. " -- old Norse proverb of dubious origin.

Is doubly funny. This can also be applied to narcissism and many others (and I suspect me at times). "Of dubious origin" - all true even though it never happened.

Heh heh.[/QUOTE]It is actually triple funny. When a troll also looks like one due to drugs.

Or quadruple funny when the troll also cannot cum. A troll fuck without an ending.

[QUOTE=VitoCorleone;2292352]Sun Tzu was proving a point to his emperor. He can make anyone & anybody into a standing army. His tactics were very effective & can still be used in today.[/QUOTE]Yeah. I believe that is the whole point of the book.

But the introduction is quite hilarious regarding FKK girls. Albeit a bit too brutal perhaps. Or is that how it is being done in China even today?

[QUOTE=Pistons;2292595]Polyamorist: You are right. But admin keeps censoring me, so I have no idea which comments gets though. Either way, the silly thing is that the deniers are not even sure what a conspiracy theory is. At one point it is a conspiracy. Next moment they admit it obviously isn't, given it is called birth control. The intellect is so low it needs to be shown. Thus I like to compare humans to monkeys.[/QUOTE]Conspiracy is feminist agenda. Birth control is population control. That point seems obvious to non-ESL readers. I am amused that the like-minded flock is forming.

When I was in high school, the strange kids used perceived intellect to find peace with their unfortunate situation. Similar behavior can be seen in adults.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2292685]It is actually triple funny. When a troll also looks like one due to drugs.

Or quadruple funny when the troll also cannot cum. A troll fuck without an ending.[/QUOTE]Funny thing about this post is that I've mongered with Phallus and a dozen other posters here. Perhaps because, you know, I'm kind of a cool guy. Is this hobby as fun when you have to do it solo?

[QUOTE=Takedown;2292697]Funny thing about this post is that I've mongered with Phallus and a dozen other posters here. Perhaps because, you know, I'm kind of a cool guy. Is this hobby as fun when you have to do it solo?[/QUOTE]Monger? Doesn't that imply sex? Whatever you like to call what you do. But mongering is a bit of a stretch don't you think?

Personally I play chess in the rooms anyway. So I wouldn't know myself.

Its a funny word. Get it? Stretch?

Mongering is a healthy part of life to scratch a naturally functioning biological drive. Like many social activities, it improves with like minded friends with free minds, good food, intellect and a dollop of humor during refractory periods and girl hunting. Good food does matter as indeed all aesthetics.

Most of us here are Epicurians. We don't play by puritanical strictures. However, Polyamorist is thoroughly irreverent with salutations and a wicked sense of humor. I am sure I am not the only one to smile. We need more of his genre rather than arid flame wars. Let us keep in mind that the end goal is fun, joy and happy memories of the many beautiful young women in their prime we are fortunate to have had pleasure to ravish. I think the main course needs to wrapped in a total package that makes each trip enjoyable and varied, just as the trimmings and presentation makes a steak.

We are in a tiny percentage of men who are lucky enough to have this extraordinary voir la joie. That is why we post here and fly around the globe at no small cost to gather amazing experiences and look forward to new ones. I propose more focus on that.

Perhaps an old Human League song "The Things That Dreams Are Made Of" is apposite. More smiles please!

[QUOTE=BradfordRS6;2292655]Any decent websites similar to kinky. NL that cover Germany?[/QUOTE]There's many to choose from but bahn. De is very useful!

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2292773]We are in a tiny percentage of men who are lucky enough to have this extraordinary voir la joie. That is why we post here and fly around the globe at no small cost to gather amazing experiences and look forward to new ones. I propose more focus on that.[/QUOTE]LOL! This is the wellknown mask used by the addicted of any kind. Addicted to sex, nicotine, drugs, ideologies of any kind, whatsoever.

Believing to belong to a group of chosen ones, where they are allowed to transfigure their neediness, greed and addiction into something special AND VALUABLE!

With regards to those sex-addicted ones: Similar to what the Camel advertising was aiming at with nicotin addicts by "reframing"! The brand's slogan, used for decades, showing adventurous scenes in adverts and films, was: "I'd walk a mile for a Camel!

Every little group and even individuals come up with a philosophy and world view that makes sense of this universe as they see- invariably, in every such philosophy and worldview, the person proposing it always puts self and their little group at the very apex.

Obviously this makes sense. Who wants to have a philosophy in which the person would place himself at the bottom? The objective of all these theories is to feel good about self and have a high sense of self worth.

Here mongers articulate and espouse a philosophy and worldview. They explain the world as they see it. Of course, in this particular view, the monger is tops- the smartest, the best, the most enlightened, what have you. Mongering is the most worthy activity in the world.

I'm new here but this is what I am observing.

[QUOTE=NickTheG;2292876]LOL! This is the wellknown mask used by the addicted of any kind. Addicted to sex, nicotine, drugs, ideologies of any kind, whatsoever.

Believing to belong to a group of chosen ones, where they are allowed to transfigure their neediness, greed and addiction into something special AND VALUABLE!

With regards to those sex-addicted ones: Similar to what the Camel advertising was aiming at with nicotin addicts by "reframing"! The brand's slogan, used for decades, showing adventurous scenes in adverts and films, was: "I'd walk a mile for a Camel![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Pistons;2292685]It is actually triple funny. When a troll also looks like one due to drugs.

Or quadruple funny when the troll also cannot cum. A troll fuck without an ending.[/QUOTE]We can understand better when we know who is behind the writings, when we know look and behavior. Some need to use different profiles, one is enough for me.

[QUOTE=NickTheG;2292876]LOL! This is the wellknown mask used by the addicted of any kind. Addicted to sex, nicotine, drugs, ideologies of any kind, whatsoever.

Believing to belong to a group of chosen ones, where they are allowed to transfigure their neediness, greed and addiction into something special AND VALUABLE!

With regards to those sex-addicted ones: Similar to what the Camel advertising was aiming at with nicotin addicts by "reframing"! The brand's slogan, used for decades, showing adventurous scenes in adverts and films, was: "I'd walk a mile for a Camel![/QUOTE]I don't consider myself to be addicted. Not at all! A man enjoys having sex, and a lot f it, and now he's "addicted" to one of the most primal of all human needs. That's just some more feminazi bullshit! Now in my case, I was a world traveler long before I ever discovered the traveling monger lifestyle. And when I did, well wow what a nice addition to the whole experience making my travels all the better! For me, the travel came first, then the mongering. So, if I'm addicted to anything, then maybe it's the travel and not the sex! Ha!

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2292916]We can understand better when we know who is behind the writings, when we know look and behavior. Some need to use different profiles, one is enough for me.[/QUOTE]More than 9000 posts with a single handle, you'd have to outsource if you took on another username.

[QUOTE=CaneUppHosAss;2292899]Obviously this makes sense. Who wants to have a philosophy in which the person would place himself at the bottom? The objective of all these theories is to feel good about self and have a high sense of self worth.

Here mongers articulate and espouse a philosophy and worldview. They explain the world as they see it. Of course, in this particular view, the monger is tops- the smartest, the best, the most enlightened, what have you. Mongering is the most worthy activity in the world.

I'm new here but this is what I am observing.[/QUOTE]Very spot on. A healthy relationship with mongering is knowing that it is a hobby, not a representation of society and life as a whole. There has recently been references to Maslow's hierarchy pointing out that sex is a basic physiological need; however, there are other needs. Efforts made in satisfying that one need should be proportionate to efforts made in satisfying the rest. In order to justify an imbalance that leads to ignoring deficits in societal position, health, and wealth, they need to create an alternate reality. This is also known as self delusion. It appears that the delusions are a dangerous sort of coping mechanism that leads one to ignore efforts in recognizing and addressing individual deficiencies. This habit often spills over to all aspect of life and creating false realities become second nature. Even worse, they often blame others for poor outcomes by creating alternative accounts of events. Sometimes they even blame society at large for "getting it wrong" and that they themselves have insightful knowledge despite fact. Perhaps the cause of this is true addiction, but equally credible is that it is the result of a lifetime of rejection by women and even other men. In the latter case, one can see why an effective coping mechanism would be to create alternate realities, blaming others, and falling into the conspiracy theory trap.

My travels are mixed in with work, outstanding food, wine, often skiing and swimming. Clubs are icing on the cake, not a destination in and of itself. I see the point of the post below taken out of context and it rings true in some cases. However you look at it, what we do is frowned upon, just as many beliefs and creeds have been. It just means we have more choices and necessarily have spare income to indulge it. So yes, by any objective measure of being fortunate to have a good passport to go as we please, spare cash and time rather than three minimum wage jobs, we are lucky.

Monkey brain addiction comes in many forms, fat, salt. Nicotine, sex, alcohol, drugs and deep solace delusion in certain social constructs contrary to all evidence or rational observation. Where occasional partaking with the easy ability to stop at whim becomes a permanent addiction is also not clear cut. This awareness is base of control.

I am not sure Nick the G ment it this way, but I agree with the critic he wrote regarding group identity. Not that I think it is necessarily of key importance to addiction. But it is a problem when groups identity is pushed ahead of self identity. Because this removes the personal freedom aspect, and one essentially becomes part of a cult. While not having full control oneself over where the cult identity is headed. Unless you are some sort of cultist leader.

An internet forum can be such a cult. Thankfully, as mentioned before, the FKK environment itself, with its polygamous nature, seems radically anti cultist in its basics.

But never lick up to other people. Think for yourselves.

Jordan Peterson on identity politics on Australian TV:

[URL]https://youtu.be/tOHUwwP6LLs[/URL]

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2293043]My travels are mixed in with work, outstanding food, wine, often skiing and swimming. Clubs are icing on the cake, not a destination in and of itself. I see the point of the post below taken out of context and it rings true in some cases. However you look at it, what we do is frowned upon, just as many beliefs and creeds have been. It just means we have more choices and necessarily have spare income to indulge it. So yes, by any objective measure of being fortunate to have a good passport to go as we please, spare cash and time rather than three minimum wage jobs, we are lucky.

Monkey brain addiction comes in many forms, fat, salt. Nicotine, sex, alcohol, drugs and deep solace delusion in certain social constructs contrary to all evidence or rational observation. Where occasional partaking with the easy ability to stop at whim becomes a permanent addiction is also not clear cut. This awareness is base of control.[/QUOTE]Pussies are like food. We humans eat three times per day in first world nations and you do not call it exactly addicted to food because we eat 3 times per day, it is merely our appetite as humans.

It is just like that for pro mongers. Beautiful girls pussies are like food, we may not need or want it three times per day, but we need it more than other men and we need quantity and also quality.

I got platform set up here for Eurasian beauties and once to few times per year, I need to fly 10 hours to taste some white beauties and beautiful exotic girls pussies.

It is merely lust and we mongers figured out how to feed it beating down several society norms by thinking for ourselves.

Those who are addicts never addicts they are addicts, from society norms, we maybe labeled as prostitute addicts, but who cares what those who are not getting quality or quantity may think? What important is that we made our dreams came true in area of lust, this is what matters.

It is merely a point of view and I much prefer to fucking beautiful girls throughout my life when I want to than jerking off front of computer screen and denouncing mongers who are living every men's secret dream.

If they call mongers addicts to prostitution, I will call them they are addicted to their old wives and society norms.

[QUOTE=Samplerr;2292983]More than 9000 posts with a single handle, you'd have to outsource if you took on another username.[/QUOTE]My English lessons, best pleasure is to write in English. Not far from 1000 visits since end of 2012, all over FKK land.

Salaam zusammen. I guess most of us have heroes from childhood and later: sports icons, great thinkers of history, mentors from family or college. My question is: if you could bring one person you admire to an FKK, who would it be? Buzz Aldrin? Babe Ruth? Stephen Hawking? Jesus? The Emperor of Japan? Your uncle, the cool one? Maybe someone who changed your whole way of thinking and now you want to pay them back and show them something they've been missing in their life.

How would you persuade them to come along? Where would you bring them? How do you think the visit would go?

For me definitely it would be the Dalai Lama or Mahatma Ghandhi. Just shooting the breeze together in an FKK, checking out the naked babes, that would be so cool.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2293302]Salaam zusammen. I guess most of us have heroes from childhood and later: sports icons, great thinkers of history, mentors from family or college. My question is: if you could bring one person you admire to an FKK, who would it be? Buzz Aldrin? Babe Ruth? Stephen Hawking? Jesus? The Emperor of Japan? Your uncle, the cool one? Maybe someone who changed your whole way of thinking and now you want to pay them back and show them something they've been missing in their life.

How would you persuade them to come along? Where would you bring them? How do you think the visit would go?

For me definitely it would be the Dalai Lama or Mahatma Ghandhi. Just shooting the breeze together in an FKK, checking out the naked babes, that would be so cool.[/QUOTE]Good question Poly! I would bring Jesus, Mahatma Gandhi and Dalai Lama to Sharks 2016 spring. They are all already ready, don't even need to change to robes or towels. And as much as I don't like Sharks anymore, don't think there is any competition with the beginners wow factor with Sharks in its heyday of spring 2016 when they had the best looking and most service oriented girls with zero up selling. I might even book the upstairs VIP area for them for some group fun LOL.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2293109]It is merely a point of view and I much prefer to fucking beautiful girls throughout my life when I want to than jerking off front of computer screen and denouncing mongers who are living every men's secret dream.[/QUOTE]You seem to think that every man wants to spend all their free time fucking beautiful WGs. That fucking beautiful, young WGs is their deep down desire and life aspiration, but they ignore this desire because society has brainwashed them into marrying women. But I don't think this is true.

Bob Kraft. Justin Bieber. Both men are known to have used the services of WGs, so we can conclude that neither is "brainwashed". Also both men are wealthy enough to walk away from their careers and move to a monger friendly country and have orgies every day for the rest of their life. But for whatever reason they choose not to. My belief is simply they have a healthy habit. They want to occasionally fuck beautiful WGs but their mind is not consumed by it. And they do not daydream about the day when they can return to a brothel. I don't think they are wasting their time reading forums, making thousands of posts, and getting defensive about what others on an anonymous forum are saying about them. They aren't planning trips and spending hours in the FKK like us ISGers do.

I consider myself an addict. Not something I am proud of or really that ashamed of.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2293464]You seem to think that every man wants to spend all their free time fucking beautiful WGs. That fucking beautiful, young WGs is their deep down desire and life aspiration, but they ignore this desire because society has brainwashed them into marrying women. But I don't think this is true.

Bob Kraft. Justin Bieber. Both men are known to have used the services of WGs, so we can conclude that neither is "brainwashed". Also both men are wealthy enough to walk away from their careers and move to a monger friendly country and have orgies every day for the rest of their life. But for whatever reason they choose not to. My belief is simply they have a healthy habit. They want to occasionally fuck beautiful WGs but their mind is not consumed by it. And they do not daydream about the day when they can return to a brothel. I don't think they are wasting their time reading forums, making thousands of posts, and getting defensive about what others on an anonymous forum are saying about them. They aren't planning trips and spending hours in the FKK like us ISGers do.

I consider myself an addict. Not something I am proud of or really that ashamed of.[/QUOTE]No, not every day man. At the beginning, it was every day and I was in heaven and but as years went by, I did not lose passion for it, and it is hard to find right words to explain it, but let say I calm down a lot.

I think I calm down a lot because finally after all these years of fucking young beautiful girls one after another, sometimes two at the same time, different skin colors, hair colors etc etc. , all this things that all young men once dream of became normal to me.

And yes, I do think all straight men at one point in their life especially in their teenage years dream of such sex life and mind you I have been mongering since age 17 or age 18, then it accelerated to more crazy level once I found German FKK in year 2009 when I was 29. Till then I did both normal and pro girls, but after discovery of German FKK, normal relationships just did not make sense to me from sexual point of view in most part, not all and I turned professional monger. Well years passed and recently I calm down a lot.

Having said that, even though I calm down a lot, I still put mongering as my primary hobby. I do other things, like skiing, sports or eating gourmet, travelling sometimes etc. , but all this I have been doing for all my life also, and I kind of stick to what human nature demand, and I do find sex with young beautiful girls very beautiful things to do in life like some kind of in touch feeling with true art, for me it is like in touch experience with fine art.

Addict is when one cannot control their behavior and I control my self, for example, as I mentioned I take about one to three trips per year right? It is one to three trips because sometime, I cannot due to work schedule or recently I cannot be bother to fly over, you may say I do not enjoy it enough to fly over, no, I do, it is just that I calm down a lot and as much as I love German FKK, I can tell myself no I should focus on making this money first then go or I cannot be bother to go now etc. Plus I monger some nice Eurasians here so I got things going on here too. So I am still in control.

Addict may not be right word I think and you say you are an addict? Maybe not man, I mean addict do not admit they are addict, so at least you seem to realize that this hobby of mongering can be dangerously addictive.

I think it is addictive when one begin to seek something more than sex in brothel or German FKK, there has been horrible case before in German FKK because of that.

I do dream about going back sometimes like I do dream about going to nice white sand beach, every one got something look forward to in life and for me going on German FKK trip is like going to white sand beach, I do look forward to it and each time I land in Germany, I still do get this excitement like a little kid running to toy store with money, but it is just for sex and memories and what happen in FKK stay in FKK.

One thing it changed me though, I tend to prefer fulfilling my lust with professional girls than normal girls due to less complication and I can do more dirty thing one after another with multiple girls in one day and as for human communications I prefer to do that with friends and my pets. It is not that I have bad experience, it is just that mongering world gave me such a good best experiences that made me realize wow this is far easier, better and less stress and make more sense for me rationally.

It is hard to describe what I mean by calm, but for me like some other pro mongers, I took something that is limited for most men unlimited, so it is something that are always there for me and I am fortunate that I bother to adventure out to the world of mongering since age 17 or 18 and carried on that journey throughout this wonderful planet called earth.

In closing, forum is nice to post, I mean I do not talk about mongering to almost anybody in my private life. Only two good friends knows about it and one of them is not exactly monger. Most of time, I just mess around on forum, but I do sometimes write more seriously, it is interesting place to chat considering most of us monger cannot go out there and talk about this hobby openly, I mean if I am asked how was your trip to Germany, as much as I want to say, but I cannot say that blow job was so good or I had so much anal sex in Germany etc. LOL.

Justin Bieber? That is some vivid example man LOL. Put it this way, I live better sex life than most of so called celebrities through out my life, I am free, I am not watched or controlled by anybody, I just follow the law to some extent and also I do have some self discipline, but other than that I am free since young age and continue to be that way. I tend to not follow celebrity world too much because it is made up character that we see and some mongers here live better sex life than most of those guys and some mongers live better sex life than me in quantity at this forum that make me inspire to make me get out more to hunt when my motivation is bit low.

All in all, it is each their own, some guys like to fuck, some are stuck not knowing what to do, I mean it is out there, all men got to do is go out there with cash and with free informed spirit, then nowadays all men can have best sex life. It is eternal mystery what stopping them. And I hope all men will find their sexual satisfaction because it is important part of happy life by men's nature.

What stops me sometime is my sexual satisfaction that is the irony of it all though. Even though I calm down a lot, I have been monger since age 17 or 18, I am a monger now and I will always be a monger. This is sure thing.

Little Justin is probably in love. I don't think that because one is rich, that also means that he is able to look outside the monogamous group think idea of true love. The illusion can seem as strong as free will.

I suppose there is some middle ground between addiction and sex being food. Sex has been shown to be have healing properties. But a hobby can be addictive if everything around it takes it beyond the bare minimum you would need to get that health benefit.

I do wonder what Osho would have done. I suppose he is quite rich now considering I have seen some products marketed with his face on them.

I suppose I would have taken Osho with me to an FKK if I were to pick one guy. Osho and maybe Jesus.

Justin Bieber is not quite in that category.

Osho regarding sex:

[URL]https://youtu.be/KmThdVnWNi8[/URL]

[QUOTE=Pistons;2293501]I suppose there is some middle ground between addiction and sex being food. Sex has been shown to be have healing properties. But a hobby can be addictive if everything around it takes it beyond the bare minimum you would need to get that health benefit.[/QUOTE]Sex and lust is one of natural desire of humans, but sex / lust has been implanted (by many societies and religions etc.) to us as something that is dirty, unless sex / lust is conducted in certain forms whether it is relationship or marriage etc.

In a way, it is some kind of oppression because it is something we naturally desire as humans, but they try to restrict it for centuries using all kind of tools to denounce and restrict freedom of recreational sexual activities.

Well pro mongers has found good wise way around this for our own happiness.

For me, mongering is going to white sand beach or eating nice different kind of food that never expire.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2293386]Good question Poly! I would bring Jesus, Mahatma Gandhi and Dalai Lama to Sharks 2016 spring. They are all already ready, don't even need to change to robes or towels. And as much as I don't like Sharks anymore, don't think there is any competition with the beginners wow factor with Sharks in its heyday of spring 2016 when they had the best looking and most service oriented girls with zero up selling. I might even book the upstairs VIP area for them for some group fun LOL.[/QUOTE]Yes, Sharks was probably the best casting in Germany in 2015 until Easter 2016 when Karin and the legendary Katalina left, but fell down after Summer 2016 and even I found a real top class on June 2018 but she didn't want to work for Sharks business = mostly cheap 50 and everything asked. She left after 2 weeks but she didn't work on many days. Because I watched Spain versus Portugal, I missed her when she smiled on Friday, but breakfast together on Saturday, Sunday and next Friday. After our 1 real GFE hour for 100 with a classy, elegant, sophisticated, very woman type, 25 yo Romanian, she asked if I would repeat later? When I answered maybe, we will see, she stopped her day on Sunday and Friday after my only 100, when she had to pay 125 to work and sleep, she didn't want to work for 50 or even 100, but treating her like a woman and her orgasmus paid also, not only with her, not being asked for extra or girls returning, some even asking for again. A rare girl in this business, I didn't advice her Globe because not a place for her, more Aphro for her to be free to decide what she wants to provide.

Helli now silicon, reminds what was Sharks before, not only quantity. But beauties are more and more rare in Germany, compare to Switzerland.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2293386]Good question Poly! I would bring Jesus, Mahatma Gandhi and Dalai Lama to Sharks 2016 spring. They are all already ready, don't even need to change to robes or towels.[/QUOTE]Exactly, they are all already dressed for FKKs. My hero Gandhi in particular would be uniquely qualified to be a kickass FKK wingman.

Gandhi was a really vigorous guy well into old age. A little known fact is that when he was 75 he started sleeping with his teenage grandnieces and also his gorgeous sexy young doctor.

The villagers gossiped endlessly. Profane minds will always jump to the wrong conclusions! They thought that Gandhi's intention was to have sex with the girls. Doh! Of course being Gandhi the whole point of sleeping with them was to [B]not[/B] have sex with them. It was a celibacy test.

This all started when he was 16 and his father was severely ill. Gandhi waited by the bedside but he had just married a beautiful virgin and was obsessed by thoughts of his new wife's body. Eventually he couldn't stand it any more and he ran out to ravish her. Just as he was ejaculating, his father died. Gandhi blamed himself. Meanwhile the sex with his wife resulted in a child but the child died too. From then on Gandhi connected all feelings of lust with evil. He even told newlyweds not to have sex.

As Gandhi's spiritual influence grew, so did his sense of responsibility. Whenever he had a wet dream, he saw religious wars burst out around him in India and he was filled with self-disgust. He became determined to purify himself of all sexual desire by exposing himself to greater and greater temptations. He would frequently bathe naked with the hottest women while forbidding them to have sex with their husbands. Like many gurus he believed that in accumulating semen and not releasing it, he was gaining more and more power spiritually. I guess it worked because he had hundreds of millions of followers.

But I'm pretty sure he never lived near an FKK, so his celibacy tests were limited. My goal would be to take him to the next level. I would bring him to Club Globe.

In my dream, we are both chilling out at the bar on FKK day, Gandhi in his loincloth and me in my robe and turban. Emanuela, who looks like a young Sofia Vergara, passes by swaying her ass lasciviously.

I say to Gandhi: "Hey, what an amazing ass. Why don't you go rub your dick all over that ass! Tell her you're famous, I bet she'll let you for free. ".

"Are you kidding, I'm a holy man. ".

"Oh yeah, I know, you haven't cum in thirty years, you don't want to lose control and spoil your record. Forget I said anything. ".

"I'm not afraid of losing control! Hold my alcohol-free beer. ".

So just to prove me wrong, Gandhi goes over and rubs his shrivelled little Indian dick all over the moons of Emanuela's delicious big round soft ass -- all without squirting.

At the end she tells him he is now obligated by the rules of the club to bring her to a room. Being a newbie he believes everything she says and is panicked by a dilemma of conscience. He finally says, "Uh, uh, go with Poly, I'll pay but I'll just watch. " But she sees more profit to be made in the newbie, so she grabs onto Gandhi's painfully swollen cock and leads him by it to a suite while he is thinking, "Ohmygod ohmygod ohmygod I'm Gandhi, this can [I]not[/I] be happening!" Meanwhile I'm getting concerned because the test wasn't supposed to go this far. I'm don't want my buddy to hold it against me if he accidentally breaks his vow of [I]brahmacharya[/I]. And what would happen to India?

In the room, Emanuela kneels and gives Gandhi a very wet slurpy blowjob while smiling and looking deeply into his eyes. She figures this excitable rube will CIM in 5 minutes and she will leave and claim the extra. What she doesn't count on is Gandhi's legendary self-control. He fills his mind with the mushroom clouds that will envelope Kashmir if he loses it, making a superhuman effort not to cum after 30 years of strict self-deprivation. He shudders like a bag of bones and his balls are as big as oranges but even after half an hour of intense tongue action, she can't tease out the white stuff. So she jumps onto him cowgirl, and squeezes her pussy muscles as tight as she can around him. "WTF," thinks Gandhi. "This is not what I signed up for!" But his iron will prevails and she still cannot make him cum, even after three hours of madly fucking him.

After his ordeal they go out to the lockers. He pulls out a satchel filled with rupees and pours it into her ample bosom. She starts screaming, "What the fuck is this money, it's as small as your dick. " -- then she grudgingly takes it after negotiating an exploitative exchange rate. But what she is really mad about is that he didn't cum the whole time, and she asks herself: "Am I getting wrinkles? ".

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2293720]Exactly, they are all already dressed for FKKs. My hero Gandhi in particular would be uniquely qualified to be a kickass FKK wingman.

Gandhi was a really vigorous guy well into old age. A little known fact is that when he was 75 he started sleeping with his teenage grandnieces and also his gorgeous sexy young doctor.

The villagers gossiped endlessly. Profane minds will always jump to the wrong conclusions! They thought that Gandhi's intention was to have sex with the girls. Doh! Of course being Gandhi the whole point of sleeping with them was to [B]not[/B] have sex with them. It was a celibacy test.

This all started when he was 16 and his father was severely ill. Gandhi waited by the bedside but he had just married a beautiful virgin and was obsessed by thoughts of his new wife's body. Eventually he couldn't stand it any more and he ran out to ravish her. Just as he was ejaculating, his father died. Gandhi blamed himself. Meanwhile the sex with his wife resulted in a child but the child died too. From then on Gandhi connected all feelings of lust with evil. He even told newlyweds not to have sex..[/QUOTE]I was growing tired of all the philosophers going back and forth in here. OMG that is funny. Thanks for the respite! Great stuff. I literally am LOL at this polite upscale restaurant.

Thanks Poly for the alternative reality of Ghandi and orange sized blue balls. Please keep this up but add in Einstein, Churchill and maybe North Korean leader Kim Suck Dong Un (I may have the the name wrong, lost in dubious translation error).

[URL]https://academic.oup.com/beheco/article/26/2/376/257321[/URL]

Essentially it boils to that chasing women is hard work and orgasms are limited, so we don't want to waste it on inferior females or sub-par experiences, ie those that lack desirable traits of DNA selection, health and youth. Women use beauty (while they have it) to attract superior males and restrict pussy to lesser males. Duh! Oldest dance in the book and is essentially the core FKK transaction thanks to contraception, cheap travel and good old Germany with its key respect for people (apart from a decade of unfortunate madness) over centuries of enlightenment starting with Luther, Goeth and Faust.

It seems the laws restricting the consensual sale of pussy must be deeply rooted in protecting the power of women rationing pussy and politics of reproduction that underwrites economic growth and consumption. They will never admit this, but behind all the claims of trafficking and saving women from themselves, alleged respect / dignity and self sovereignty (applied selectively of course, all based on assumptions free of any evidence), the P2 P prohibition seems to really be about about protecting the equivalent pricing power of a cartel and long term subscription to a wasting asset from being displaced by casual labor providing pussy. If men want to love women and be monogamous (itself unnatural), fine, but it should be a free marketplace. Incredible in the face of the gig economy, globalisation, the cult / ideology of free markets etc this area is carved out from competition in some places. The Nordic model of going after the men in law enforcement (destroy demand) underscores the point of who this racket really benefits.

The stark contrast are the legions of tolerated exploitative pink collar jobs / industries for females with crap wages, repetitive tasks, humiliating, de-humanising and requiring conformity and docility, such as garment manufacturing, assembling electronics, care giving (wiping butts of infants and geriatrics) etc etc. The real crime is undermining pussy pricing and the rent seeking monopoly of women where that is a "thing" (and in their short window to sell a long-term contract for exclusive supply). As Oscar Wilde said, a crime (love) that dare not speak its name, and that speaking is what FKK's represent.

In a lot of ways the men here are perfectly rational seeking optimal choices and pricing in the face of a sanctioned rent-seeking. Given many here are clearly business savvy, this undermining the cartel should be celebrated rather than frowned up by the rent seekers. Polyamorist, perhaps taking a leaf from Ayn Rand, perhaps we need a "Galt's Gash" FKK story from the depths of your wicked imagination and talented pen where oppressed men escape to for a perfect life of wild sex and happy times.

Hello,

I will be in Frankfurt and Cologne hitting up bunch of FKKs. I come from Canada so smoking marijuana is legal here, I like to smoke a joint before a session with a escort. But I wonder if smoking marijuana inside FKK or around FKK is legal before have a session with an escort? Thanks.

[QUOTE=CoolManFever;2293848]Hello,

I will be in Frankfurt and Cologne hitting up bunch of FKKs. I come from Canada so smoking marijuana is legal here, I like to smoke a joint before a session with a escort. But I wonder if smoking marijuana inside FKK or around FKK is legal before have a session with an escort? Thanks.[/QUOTE]No it isn't. Marihuana still squarely against the law. Probably low underground availability in FKKs due to smell.

[QUOTE=CoolManFever;2293848]Hello,

I will be in Frankfurt and Cologne hitting up bunch of FKKs. I come from Canada so smoking marijuana is legal here, I like to smoke a joint before a session with a escort. But I wonder if smoking marijuana inside FKK or around FKK is legal before have a session with an escort? Thanks.[/QUOTE]Take train to Venlo, which is border town of Netherlands, one hour train ride from duss, it is legal there and look for coffee shops there, which you will find two on google search, so take your pick. People in Netherlands speak fluent English mostly and it is all legit.

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2293784]Thanks Poly for the alternative reality of Ghandi and orange sized blue balls. Please keep this up but add in Einstein, Churchill and maybe North Korean leader Kim Suck Dong Un (I may have the the name wrong, lost in dubious translation error).

It seems the laws restricting the consensual sale of pussy must be deeply rooted in protecting the power of women rationing pussy and politics of reproduction that underwrites economic growth and consumption. They will never admit this.[/QUOTE]Back in the day, not so long ago, Harem style sex life was only possible for very few men like king, maharaja, so called dictator like Kim Jong Un nd such etc. , but in recent years, more organized platforms in prostitution industry enable freedom thinking men to live similar sex life style for reasonable cost. This is real game changer for men and enhance sex life quality to whole new level. It is form of liberalization, mega liberalization actually.

Protecting power of women, protecting social system, protecting population pyramid, tax system etc. And in part human moral are the reason why recreational sex is perceived as rather dirty thing, it is form of mild brainwash, but rationality is there from the standpoint of those who are enforcing such ideology. It make sense for them to sustain this society, which I agree, though it is not ideology that benefit my sex life that I want to lead.

Personally, I think if all or most of men think like pro mongers, this world is heading to near extinction, so it is good that these mild enforcing brainwash is conducted by so called normal men who lead normal sex life, but it is also good that freedom is now given to choose how we want to live, and I prefer to think with open mind and feed my lust fucking beautiful girls than stuck in ancient closed mind ideologies filled with sexual frustrations.

It is all stand point and point of view, we may think we are normal or not addicted, but from society point of view, any mongers will be labeled as abnormal or sex addict or crazy person LOL, from our point of view, they are the crazy ones not admitting their human basic lust for recreational sex. It is never ending debate which actually keep the world goes around, I guess we call this keeping balance.

Meanwhile, we enjoy good sex life in shadow. Only if these people know how we live.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2293720]Exactly, they are all already dressed for FKKs.[/QUOTE]Caligula would also be properly dressed, and I dare say would quite enjoy aahahaha!

[QUOTE=CoolManFever;2293848]Hello,

I will be in Frankfurt and Cologne hitting up bunch of FKKs. I come from Canada so smoking marijuana is legal here, I like to smoke a joint before a session with a escort. But I wonder if smoking marijuana inside FKK or around FKK is legal before have a session with an escort? Thanks.[/QUOTE]Not legal, but easy to find if you ask the right girls. They might not have it themselves, but they'll know who does.

[QUOTE=CoolManFever;2293848]Hello,

I will be in Frankfurt and Cologne hitting up bunch of FKKs. I come from Canada so smoking marijuana is legal here, I like to smoke a joint before a session with a escort. But I wonder if smoking marijuana inside FKK or around FKK is legal before have a session with an escort? Thanks.[/QUOTE]Some smoke with girls, some girls take cocaine, not only at Aphro Zurich. Only YY NL had problems about drug.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2293464]I consider myself an addict. Not something I am proud of or really that ashamed of.[/QUOTE]You have a healthy point of view, constantly keeping a check on a potentially detrimental habit. While I think it limits your enjoyment of the hobby, I personally think it is better to be this way rather than to be disconnected from facts and reality. You can see a lot of rationalization and intellectualization amongst hobbyist. These defense mechanism do serve a purpose, as they help cope with emotional insecurities, perhaps due to previous emotional trauma such as social rejection or lack of being loved. These logical thoughts help people suffering from psychological trauma accept their realities. You see it written all of the time; "I enjoy travel", "I am practicing my English", "this only takes a little bit of time", "I spend time with other friends", "Society has it wrong".

More broadly speaking, intellectualization can be seen in the frequent references to theories and use of jargon to put up a guise of control. A more therapeutic approach is to practice a higher level mechanism such as humour toward oneself. The problem with that is that it requires one to first let go of primitive mechanisms such as denial and practice acceptance.

[URL]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectualization[/URL]

Not a bad post at all Takedown! These things, and the ones McA points to are things to keep in mind.

But what is life without escapist practises? Eat chicken for every meal, and chicken gets boring.

The same thing can be said regarding everything in life. Work, food, locations, climate, weather, sports, music etc etc.

Now the argument that using a theory, or science even to defend ones ideas is a bit ficticious though, as that argument itself is the same thing. A theory. Much like Erasmus Montanus:

[URL]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erasmus_Montanus[/URL]

[QUOTE=Pistons;2292729]Monger? Doesn't that imply sex? Whatever you like to call what you do. But mongering is a bit of a stretch don't you think?[/QUOTE]Disingenuous at best but to be expected regarding defense mechanisms.

Adding to my former post:

There is a problem when 70% of all the content on the internet is related to porn. I would call that an indicator of what the society as a whole is suppressing the most. Due to the idea that most topics that are being brough up onto the public sphere is suppressed topics of interest that needs to be highlighted. Or has some sort of market dynamical need related to it.

So by that very same idea, societal suppression of sex, is equivalent to 70% or all societal suppression in all the worlds societies as a whole. Making this quite the substantial topic nobody can really underestimate.

To put that into context, gaming relates to parhaps only 10%. And that is a pretty hefty timesink for many young adults too without money to splurge. Both are escapist in their form. But as opposed to gaming, sex also has a health benefit, and can be considerred a human essential need. So framing a human essential need as something negative in its shape and form, seems to me to be a psychotic result of institutional brainwashing. Much like BDSM fetishers.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2293501]
I suppose I would have taken Osho with me to an FKK if I were to pick one guy. Osho and maybe Jesus.
[/QUOTE]Interesting that Pistons also picked an Indian guru. In many ways Osho was the opposite of Gandhi though. Whereas Gandhi wanted you to make mountains out of your inhibitions, Osho preached immediate satisfaction of every desire to achieve a clear flat plain of superconsciousness. Osho's communes in the US were famous for polyamory and were ahead of FKKs in some respects like orgies and mandatory STD testing.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2293501]
I do wonder what Osho would have done. I suppose he is quite rich now considering I have seen some products marketed with his face on them.
[/QUOTE]Well. He literally owned 93 Rolls-Royces. He did quite well out of the Age of Permissiveness. But then when the curtain came down in the seventies and eighties (the start of the Sex Prohibition era), his ashrams struggled more and more and eventually fell into chaos. By 1990 Osho himself was on the run -- in the skies. He was practically confined to his private jet, circling the planet and looking for sanctuary. After a year he landed back in India and died.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2293501]
Osho regarding sex:

[URL]https://youtu.be/KmThdVnWNi8[/URL][/QUOTE]Nice video, especially when he talks about the Life Force. "It is from this energy that you cum. " And what source of energy is more renewable than human sperm? It should replace fossil fuels:

[URL]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0YWt6GWsAAwFYH.jpg[/URL]

[QUOTE=Pistons;2294246]Not a bad post at all Takedown! These things, and the ones McA points to are things to keep in mind.

But what is life without escapist practises? Eat chicken for every meal, and chicken gets boring.

The same thing can be said regarding everything in life. Work, food, locations, climate, weather, sports, music etc etc.

Now the argument that using a theory, or science even to defend ones ideas is a bit ficticious though, as that argument itself is the same thing. A theory. Much like Erasmus Montanus:

[URL]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erasmus_Montanus[/URL][/QUOTE]Whether on purpose or through subconscious habit, you missed the point of of the post, intellectualization as a mechanism to justify denial. And no, don't get too excited about the term intellectualizing, it does not mean one is intelligent. What you do is not escapism, at least not one that leads to betterment of self. Generating false scenarios and bastardizing facts are more congruent with the early mechanisms of coping with psychological trauma, denial.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2294262]So framing a human essential need as something negative in its shape and form, seems to me to be a psychotic result of institutional brainwashing. Much like BDSM fetishers.[/QUOTE]One can try to deny this suppression of sex in the world. Gandhi tried to do this in Poly's example. Through societal forms and ideas, our subconscious mind would then start obtaining fetishes such as chastity belts among the narrow minded sjw's, monogamy defenders and quasi intellectual trolls. Such as going to a room with the intention of having sex, but then figuring out his subconscious had a fetish on not having sex at all. Or starting, but not being able to finnish. Pretty much like chastity porn. Cockblocked and denied.

Personally I find the very idea that chastity fetishes are a thing, to be quite sad. Very sad.

Been a member for more than 15 years (other handle) and used to love Oase. Now more towards Sharks. Last trip in 2017 Trip Summary here: [URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?1089-General-Info&p=1990203[/URL]#post1990203.

Thinking of a short trip over to Germany (or anywhere in Europe) for a bit of a brothel / FKK escape next week or so.

Interested in any current opinions on where the most attractive / hottest girls might be found, generally speaking. I know the line-up changes from day to day and everyone has different tastes etc. But I'm asking the question nonetheless!

Have never been to the NRW area, only the Big 5 in Frankfurt. Do they have a better lineup generally? I hear the service is a bit better and more consistent there.

Thanks in advance.

It is a matter of taste. Sometimes related to the lingerie the girls are using, their hairstyle etc etc too. One persons ideas of who is pretty, is not the same as the next ones ideas of the same. For example, I clash hard with Sirioja's preferences. Only with 3 exceptions that I remember. So we kinda disagree on 90% or so. But with other posters, my preferences can overlap on 70-80% or more of the girls. Such as with one forum poster on Youppie.

But in general, you stand a higher chance of finding the prettiest girls in the clubs with the most girls. But some of these biggest clubs are also light mode tourist traps due to their fame. Meaning, girls will start asking for more and more money for what you assumed was included.

When that is said, Sharks and Oase holda their ground strong in regards to the prettiest girls. In nrw I would say Oceans has the prettiest girls. Others might disagree since it is a cool thing to dislike Oceans due to their entrance policy. But that doesn't change the beauty of their girls. YinYang too was good, but now closed for a year. But you can find one or two gems at pretty much every club. No clubs have died and has zero hot girls.

Hello gents,

I've only visited one FKK club (Sharks) before and had a good time but now that I've looked back at it I feel like I don't understand the rules a bit. When the girls and I were negotiating before going into a room, we talked about 30 min /50 E and 60 min /100 E. I've tried both but in either situations as soon as I finished, they told me that it's done and I owe them the whole charge that we agreed on. Especially for the hour sessions, we would leave with half the time behind (even though I wasn't counting, there was no way that I can last a full hour for one session with these girls). Was I being scammed? One of my first girl, I went in the room, she covered me with rubber and I finished not that far in since I was holding the urges. She told me that we should pack up and vacate the room for others as we are done. Should I have asked if the time was up and double check with the girls?

TL; DR:

When you decide for either 30 min or 60 min. Do you stay the entire time with her for that amount of time even after finishing. Also, can you ask for multiple sessions / finishes (in both 30 min or 60 min) during that time?

Thank you for helping out this newbie.

Hi gents,

Newbie thinking about exploring outside the normal sex life.

When it is indicated that 30 min /50 E and 60 min /100 E, does this mean that you will be in the room for the whole duration of that time or until you (male) finishes. Should you bring a watch with you or do the girls keep the time for you?

In fact, can you go for multiple shots?

Reading your post on the Oase thread, it seems like you still have a pretty good pulse on things. Oase and Sharks are still number one and two in Germany with the hottest girls at the top end. I admit that I have never seen a Hamburg club. Oase is still just as bad as ever if not worse regarding sharky girls. There are not as many sharks at Sharks, irony, but if only spending 50 euros, you will have a hard time getting good service from many top girls. You'll find a few hot girls at the NRW clubs, just not nearly as many as at the Frankfurt clubs. If you only need 2 or 3, you'll find that at most of the more popular NRW clubs.

As for the rest of Europe, I think many people will direct you to Zurich clubs. I personally find them to be overrated and definitely not worth the price point. A better option is Wellcum in Austria, 2 hours from Venice. On a Friday or Saturday night, the line up is better than Globe in Zurich in my opinion. The downside is that the Sunday and I assume weekday line up there drops back down to Sharks and Oase level.

[QUOTE=RubMeister100;2294389]Been a member for more than 15 years (other handle) and used to love Oase. Now more towards Sharks. Last trip in 2017 Trip Summary here: [URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?1089-General-Info&p=1990203[/URL]#post1990203.

Thinking of a short trip over to Germany (or anywhere in Europe) for a bit of a brothel / FKK escape next week or so.

Interested in any current opinions on where the most attractive / hottest girls might be found, generally speaking. I know the line-up changes from day to day and everyone has different tastes etc. But I'm asking the question nonetheless!.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you. Sex is a basic impulse and need, a very basic one, but not the only one. And while some of us inveterate mongers need sex with many girls, probably many pretty and young ladies, it is a mistake to assume that this is the only need or main need of all men. It is an even bigger mistake to think that men who are not pursuing sex with multiple young men all the time are either brainwashed, don't have the means, or both.

Your examples of Bieber and Kraft are appropriate. I will go one step further. You cited their prior known use of prostitutes to exemplify that they are not brainwashed. In fact, many many other famous powerful and rich men may have visited with prostitutes in the past but we simply may not know about them. Further, even if they did not use a prostitute does not mean they are unaware. They simply may have chosen not to use prostitutes intentionally and deliberately.

Pursuit of money, power, peer recognition, fame and name recognition, domination over fellow human beings, awards and trophies, notoriety, and many other things are all vigorously pursued by many many men (and women). Achieving high levels of success on many of those metrics leads to self satisfaction, as much (if not greater) as any sex act. I have mongered for a long time in many countries and sex is indeed highly satisfying. But for me, making money is even more rewarding even if I will never ever spend most of what I make. I could hang up my boots today permanently and just focus on fucking girls all over the world but I know for sure that I will be bored in a short amount of time. In that sense, I already have an activity, I. E making money, which I find intrinsically far more rewarding than sex, and it is not because I am brainwashed.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2293464]You seem to think that every man wants to spend all their free time fucking beautiful WGs. That fucking beautiful, young WGs is their deep down desire and life aspiration, but they ignore this desire because society has brainwashed them into marrying women. But I don't think this is true.

Bob Kraft. Justin Bieber. Both men are known to have used the services of WGs, so we can conclude that neither is "brainwashed". Also both men are wealthy enough to walk away from their careers and move to a monger friendly country and have orgies every day for the rest of their life..[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Takedown;2294428] A better option is Wellcum in Austria, 2 hours from Venice. On a Friday or Saturday night, the line up is better than Globe in Zurich in my opinion. The downside is that the Sunday and I assume weekday line up there drops back down to Sharks and Oase level.[/QUOTE]Personal Sunday experience from Wellcum has been quite good. And optically better than sharks. But I suppose maybe not optically like that last Saturday at Oase when everyone was there.

Monday however has used to be quite grim at Wellcum. And maybe just at NRW weekend level (2-3) hot girls. Then after that lineup increases progressively upwards towards the peak on Friday and Saturday again.

[QUOTE=CaneUppHosAss;2294469]In that sense, I already have an activity, I. E making money, which I find intrinsically far more rewarding than sex, and it is not because I am brainwashed.[/QUOTE]"If women didn't exist, all the money in the world would have no meaning. " -- Aristotle Onassis.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2293482]
I do dream about going back sometimes like I do dream about going to nice white sand beach, every one got something look forward to in life and for me going on German FKK trip is like going to white sand beach, I do look forward to it and each time I land in Germany, I still do get this excitement like a little kid running to toy store with money, but it is just for sex and memories and what happen in FKK stay in FKK.[/QUOTE]"Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it. " -- Mahatma Gandhi.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2294753]"If women didn't exist, all the money in the world would have no meaning. " -- Aristotle Onassis..[/QUOTE]Onassis said that because he had money, he wouldn't say the same if he was poor.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2294753]"If women didn't exist, all the money in the world would have no meaning. " -- Aristotle Onassis.[/QUOTE]It is not a either or. If women did not exist neither would men nor would money.

In the world most of us are living in, men, women, and money co exist, and different people want different different things and that is perfectly alright.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2294795]Onassis said that because he had money, he wouldn't say the same if he was poor.[/QUOTE]Why not? The only thing a human would put on the same level as sex is food and water. Perhaps air to breath would be even more important. But given there is the minimum access to these essentials, then sex is really what you need money for. And money was created in the first place to pay for sex. Aristotle Onassis knew this as much as the smart ones here. Just because the not so smart ones here refuse this idea, does not mean it isn't so. It just means that they refuse common anthropological logic.

The most basic idea regarding this is that we can get access to air, water and food by ourselves. With sex, we need a partner. Thus a medium of trade is needed. This allows for the innovation of a trading currency. Or money.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2294795]Onassis said that because he had money, he wouldn't say the same if he was poor.[/QUOTE]Exactly.

And BTW, old Aristotle preferred the name and notoriety. He shacked up with Callas for years because "he and Maria were the most famous Greeks alive in the world". He married Jackie K who surely was pretty but pushing 40. He needed that bragging right of banging ex first lady. With his money he could have fucked every 18 year old Rom girl in those days. That's my point that not every living man is obsessed with banging as many chicks as possible if only they could.

I believe that's what the other gentleman also was saying originally, Mac Adonis did.

Hello there,

Are a few FKK clubs in Hamburg, from reading the forums FKK Harmony looks like the best one. Can somebody confirm this? My only concern was that it closes at 1 am rather than later compared to other clubs.

I'm travelling down for a friends birthday party and I like to do my research on the best recommendations.

I always appreciate any feedback.

Thanks,

Simon.

[QUOTE=CaneUppHosAss;2294829]And BTW, old Aristotle preferred the name and notoriety. He shacked up with Callas for years because "he and Maria were the most famous Greeks alive in the world". He married Jackie K who surely was pretty but pushing 40. He needed that bragging right of banging ex first lady. With his money he could have fucked every 18 year old Rom girl in those days. That's my point that not every living man is obsessed with banging as many chicks as possible if only they could.[/QUOTE]Agree with your statement about Aristotle's motives. To that end, as you said, Aristotle chose to marry a 40-year-old woman and not the prettiest, youngest girl he could possibly find. Regarding "banging" the ex first lady: I will say this. And maybe this is an out-of-the-box thought, but I do not believe marriage always has to be about love, sex, or even romance. It can serve strategic purposes. To me, it is not beyond the realm of imagination if Aristotle never actually "banged" the ex-first lady.

In fact two possible reasons might be due to his physical health or his own preferences. According to Wikipedia, his marriage to Jackie K coincided with the last seven years of his life, and he was not entirely healthy those last few years. Let's not forget that these were the days before erectile dysfunction drugs. Or the opposite could have been true. Maybe Aristotle still had the libido and sexual stamina of an 18 year old and was having copious amounts of sex-just not with Jackie K. Maybe Aristotle never banged Jackie K because he was repulsed by MILFs and instead preferred to ravage young flesh in exchange for money behind closed doors. In that sense, his marriage to Jackie K was simply a marriage of convenience or for "show". She was American aristocracy. She was a trophy wife that gave Aristotle access to different social circles, and she made Aristotle more famous and respectable (which is maybe what he really craved).

An oft-repeated sentiment here is that marriage is a trap, because you end up "stuck" fucking a fat middle aged woman who will be a leech on your financial resources. This certainly can be true, especially, if one chooses to marry a woman who makes considerably less money and is of lower social status. But I would bet that many of the married German, Belgian and Dutch mongers (arriving FKKs in their high-end vehicles) married women of similar social status. Perhaps their father-in-laws helped them obtain their high-paying job positions in the first place. Perhaps their wife makes comparable money. Such wives are obviously not financial leeches then.

Not sure if this is a suitable response:

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2294753]"If women didn't exist, all the money in the world would have no meaning. " -- Aristotle Onassis.[/QUOTE]To this:

[QUOTE=CaneUppHosAss;2294469]In that sense, I already have an activity, I. E making money, which I find intrinsically far more rewarding than sex, and it is not because I am brainwashed.[/QUOTE]CaneUppHosAss is talking about sex. The Onassis quote contains no reference to sex, only to women.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2294822]Why not? The only thing a human would put on the same level as sex is food and water. Perhaps air to breath would be even more important. But given there is the minimum access to these essentials, then sex is really what you need money for. And money was created in the first place to pay for sex.[/QUOTE]According to many WGs, some mongers don't engage in that much or any sex. Especially the older mongers. They are paying for companionship, hugging, cuddling and kissing. They pay for the company of a woman, but not necessarily sex.

You are seeing things exclusively through the eyes of a sex-addicted monger. I get it, I am one too, but rest of the general male population may not share the same outlook that sex is almost as important as food and water. In fact, millennials, particularly the ones born after 1995, are having less sex than previous generations. One of the reasons is porn, which I've touched on in the past. They are too used to their own hands. Not the "dirtiness, wetness, and smells" of another person's bodily liquids. Again, hard for us older, sexual addicts to relate to, since we much rather prefer women over online porn.

[QUOTE]People Are Satisfying Their Sexual Desires, Just Not with Other People

Although rates of intercourse have been decreasing the main finding that the Atlantic article was trying to explain that doesnt mean that people are not experiencing sexual pleasure. One of the studies Julian mentioned found dramatic increases in rates of masturbation from 1992 to 2014 double for men (in 2014, 54 percent said that they masturbated in a given week) and more than triple for women (26 percent).

The increase could be linked to the greater accessibility of porn over time. Other products and services that facilitate sexual experiences without involving other humans are also becoming more popular sex dolls, for example.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/living-single/201811/7-reasons-why-young-people-are-having-less-sex
[/QUOTE]Asexuality is also a term that millennials will throw around and some want to see it added to the ever-growing list of sexual orientations. It is generally defined as a lack of sexual attraction to others or the lack of interest in sex. Although asexuality is more common amongst women than men:[URL]https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/magnetic-partners/201406/asexuality[/URL].

Hello Sir Mr Adonis,

You are quite right. I had the same thought IE Onassis may never have had sex with Jackie. And I had the same exact reasons as you enunciated, such as his health, his somewhat advanced age (for those times) and his death just 7 years into the marriage.

Whether he had sex with her or not is quite immaterial of course to the point I believe you are making. Which is that he had multiple other reasons to marry her. If she was another 40 year old MILF with a different ex husband, what's the chance he would have married her?

We are all mongers here, and probably many of us (not all) prefer younger v older, better shaped than obese, better smelling than in obvious bad hygiene girls. Yet, even inside a single large club like Sharks, we all have different preferences in terms of who we like and what we like to do in the room. And yet, for some reason some gentlemen think we are all driven by one motive and one motive alone which is to have the maximum number of sex sessions with as many young pretty girls as possible.

This goes to the other point I made once- that there is comfort in having a view of the world in which we think the highest ideals are our values and likes and desires and if someone does not have the same likes and traits they must be inferior and deviant.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2294874]According to many WGs, some mongers don't engage in that much or any sex. Especially the older mongers. They are paying for companionship, hugging, cuddling and kissing. They pay for the company of a woman, but not necessarily sex.[/QUOTE]Right, you see all kinds. There's the Italian Arnold Schwarzeneggar looking guy that we often see in the clubs. That archetype is the alpha type character that's addicted to sex. They should not to be confused with the ones who have emotional needs. Even the guys who do lots of rooms that are not pancake session can be emotional needs guys. You know, needing a woman to behave a certain way with elegance. There's obviously a need more complex than just sex there. Then there are the more basic guys who do crave a connection but would not admit it. The guy with the hooker's tattoo on his foot for instance. It wasn't just about sex for that poor soul. It's easier to intellectualize something by associating it with loose theories than to face the psychological damage head on.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2294398]you can find one or two gems at pretty much every club. No clubs have died and has zero hot girls.[/QUOTE]True that, it is depending on how high you put your hurdle, but it is just that finding few hot girls became much harder, though finding at least one, if not two in each clubs per visit are still true.

Another thing I do miss is going for quick session of just 50 or 60 euro when you want just quick 30 min BBBJ and fuck to finish off the day, going with not sure girls or whatever reasons. This price became 100 euro in many clubs beside NRW clubs, or it require annoying negotiations. But I think we just had it too easy and too cheap for what we were getting, but I do miss this much more value for the money I used to pay. At least I had such lucky bargain sale period for 8 years.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2294868]In that sense, his marriage to Jackie K was simply a marriage of convenience or for "show". She was American aristocracy. She was a trophy wife that gave Aristotle access to different social circles, and she made Aristotle more famous and respectable (which is maybe what he really craved)..[/QUOTE]Of course it was and the sane with Maria. These women were just trophies to him and helped him become even more famous. He then made this statement about women and money because we all know that money and women are very strongly connected. One brings the other.

Here in Greece we have a quote that says that 'A pussy has the power enough to move a tanker ship'. As a Greek I am not proud about Onassis and what he did for my country. I am proud about the original Aristotle and Socrates and so many other. Yes he was a smart tycoon like so many other but that's all. He lived in the right place the right time and took advantage of all opportunities he had those years.

[QUOTE=NotThatChad;2294405]Hello gents,

I've only visited one FKK club (Sharks) before and had a good time but now that I've looked back at it I feel like I don't understand the rules a bit. When the girls and I were negotiating before going into a room, we talked about 30 min /50 E and 60 min /100 E. I've tried both but in either situations as soon as I finished, they told me that it's done and I owe them the whole charge that we agreed on. Especially for the hour sessions, we would leave with half the time behind (even though I wasn't counting, there was no way that I can last a full hour for one session with these girls). Was I being scammed? One of my first girl, I went in the room, she covered me with rubber and I finished not that far in since I was holding the urges. She told me that we should pack up and vacate the room for others as we are done. Should I have asked if the time was up and double check with the girls?.[/QUOTE]Based on my experience, it depends on the girl. I only do 30 min sessions and roughly 3 out of 5 girls would wipe up and end the session as soon as I cum. The others would lay with me and just chat for the remainder of time.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2294874]
You are seeing things exclusively through the eyes of a sex-addicted monger. I get it, I am one too, but rest of the general male population may not share the same outlook that sex is almost as important as food and water. In fact, millennials, particularly the ones born after 1995, are having less sex than previous generations. One of the reasons is porn, which I've touched on in the past. They are too used to their own hands. Not the "dirtiness, wetness, and smells" of another person's bodily liquids. Again, hard for us older, sexual addicts to relate to, since we much rather prefer women over online porn.
[/QUOTE][NOPARSE]
HR pamphlet unearthed at Kolmya gulag:

"I am thrilled to announce the success of our Menu Distribution Program. The volunteers greatly enjoy the luscious pictures of crab meat, reindeer venison, blini, caviar, and premium vodka. In fact the team spends so much time devouring the menus with their eyes that as far as I can see they don't seem interested in actual food any more and we have been able to reduce daily soup rations by 50% this quarter. A big win for Camp K folks!"
[/NOPARSE]

[QUOTE=Simon2001;2294836]Hello there,

Are a few FKK clubs in Hamburg, from reading the forums FKK Harmony looks like the best one. Can somebody confirm this? My only concern was that it closes at 1 am rather than later compared to other clubs.

I'm travelling down for a friends birthday party and I like to do my research on the best recommendations.

I always appreciate any feedback.

Thanks,

Simon.[/QUOTE]Hi Simon,

Harmony is the best of the Hamburg clubs for service and usually looks too. What I would recommend is go to Harmony during the day and evening till about 11 pm and then go to Babylon from midnight to closing time (I think 5 am!) It has a great party atmosphere on weekends at night time.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2294880] They should not to be confused with the ones who have emotional needs. Even the guys who do lots of rooms that are not pancake session can be emotional needs guys. [/QUOTE]I think you got it confused a bit. Sex is an emotion. They are one and the same thing. And so, just like the Australian prostitute who wrote a book about this disclosed, all men are after that same thing. It is the same force that drives men to what you define as emotional needs, as what drives men towards sex.

And the example of that arbitrary Italian alpha male guy. He most likely started going to the gym at young age, because he wanted to impress girls. In order to acquire those emotional needs. The higher his emotional needs were, the longer time he spent at the gym.

I must admit I am sex addicted as much as I am food addicted. And I have no intention of taking measurements in order to stop either. I like my life force, like Osho frames it.

Addiction on the other hand is a sort of negative framing I do not necessarily adhere to.

The idea that we all have different angles on this is just an illusion. An illusion, just like monogamy or free will. But through our backgrounds, we all learn different terms in order to describe our framing of what we do. Be it calling prostitutes your own sorority sisters, to make it more personal, or just squeezing in a last fuck for fifty. A tattoo I would suggest everyone here to add: "I Fuck for fifty'.

Think of sex as a cuisine to fill your emotional needs.

Think of porn as an alternative cuisine.

Think of hugs and a talk with the psychologist as a third option.

Think of being in the room with your sorority sisters, while not having sex as a fourth type of cuisine.

What binds all cuisines together, is that they are all essentially food.

Then comes the idea that there is something we are not proud of.

There is nothing about eating food that makes us less proud (unless someone teases you about being skinny or fat).

There is nothing about breathing air that makes us less proud.

There is nothing about drinking water that makes us less proud.

But as soon as we have to rely on a second person, this reliance makes us vulnerable. And that vulnerability is what we confuse with making is less proud. It is what makes us sacrifice something. Some proudness, in order to achieve our needs. Be it, the trade of food, water, air, money, or time.

It has nothing to do about being less proud. But everything to do about the fact that nobody in this world can survive on our own. We need both a male and a female to make a baby. And then we need to rely on someone else. At least for a time being. And that time can be measured in money.

Now we have these things called condoms, and pills in order for us to not make babies all the time. And that is what makes us able to get away with a fifty sometimes instead of a hell of a lot more!

At least until Mr. Ho's predictions comes true, and science makes us able to do anything. At the price of near nothing.

Essentially, the entire prostitution law is a regulation against producing babies. It is a meassurement of population control. Because you can define any reliance of a second person as a means of trading sex. If you look at the legal books, that is also how prostitution is defined. It is written so that it is illegal to rely on a second person for sex. Basically, producing children is a crime.

I have studied the law regarding this several times, and it is the only conclusion that makes sense.

[QUOTE=Sybarite2006;2295140]Hi Simon,

Harmony is the best of the Hamburg clubs for service and usually looks too. What I would recommend is go to Harmony during the day and evening till about 11 pm and then go to Babylon from midnight to closing time (I think 5 am!) It has a great party atmosphere on weekends at night time.[/QUOTE]I preferred Babylon and then Atmos. And when suggesting to somebody to go to Harmony, it behooves one to note that Harmony is really, really far from the city center of Hamburg! That fact should never be left out. I went all the way out there and didn't see anybody I liked but the receptionist and "Bambi". Well, the receptionist wasn't available, and I didn't like Bambi's attitude, so I ended up sessioning with nobody. So just remember. If you choose Harmony, it will be one long trek, and you better hope you like it! I much preferred Babylon and Atmos fucking German, Polish, and an Armenian girl in the ass. Also a gorgeous Iranian-German girl (no anal). Wonder if that cute receptionist is still at Harmony? Well, I won't be going way the hell out there to find out!

[QUOTE=Pistons;2294824]The most basic idea regarding this is that we can get access to air, water and food by ourselves. With sex, we need a partner. Thus a medium of trade is needed. This allows for the innovation of a trading currency. Or money.[/QUOTE]Salaam, Pistons, and cum bayah!

Money as a medium would have had to be invented anyway, but the need for sex must have acted as a catalyst. Like many other social constructs (language, religion, Instagram, etc) money needed men to invent it, but it needed women to [I]provoke[/I] that invention.

Notice that they say necessity is the mother of invention, not the father of invention.

However, the progress comes to a halt when women are persuaded they should be playing the same roles as men rather than complementary roles. Massive confusion ensues.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2295339]I much preferred Babylon and Atmos fucking German, Polish, and an Armenian girl in the ass. Also a gorgeous Iranian-German girl (no anal).[/QUOTE]Hamdulillah Cane! This must have been the famous Sheila: very feminine, petite, and with a lovely voice. Later, she turned into Melisa at Globe. I had a couple of great sessions with her, then she acted mad at me when she saw me with another girl. Don't know where she is these days.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2295616]Hamdulillah Cane! This must have been the famous Sheila: very feminine, petite, and with a lovely voice. Later, she turned into Melisa at Globe. I had a couple of great sessions with her, then she acted mad at me when she saw me with another girl. Don't know where she is these days.[/QUOTE]If you mean the Iranian-German girl, I think she went by "Bella". Model-quality face, kissing. She was good!

I hope all of us mongers are doing our parts on this very auspicious day by fucking the women in exchange of money and helping their dreams come true. Whatever those dreams are. House, apartments, luxury cars, watches, jwellery, loverboys, loser boyfriends etc etc.

I'm in Globe now, humbly trying to do my part. Like to share your story of contribution today?

#MeToo. #GirlPower. #WomenInControl #InternationalWomensDay #MenArePigs

Hi All,

Thanks to my boss I am preparing my Frankfurt Trip (I don't know anymore how many is this) .

I am planning two visits; One for Tuesday and one for Thursday. My hotel is Toyoko Inn Frankfurt Haubhhanhoff. First I though it would be apprepiate to go FKK PALACE for Tuesday because since I will wake up so early and it is just 5 kms to my hotel. No need a rental car. So I will save cost. But when I think there will be a big messe during that time it is possible Palace will be cock fest. (This is also why I am in FRA during this dates. ISH Frankfurt) It is already not a very good choice maybe it is better to rent a car and head to Oase (25 km) or Sharks (19 kms). Also I must calculate the train cost to get there. I will wake up early on Wednesday.

My second choice on Thursday can be Oase or Sharks. But again I am indecisive to rent a car or not. And also which one to pick. Is it possible someone update for the current line ups? I will appreciate your comments.

[QUOTE=Iceberg27;2295955]Hi All,

Thanks to my boss I am preparing my Frankfurt Trip (I don't know anymore how many is this) .

I am planning two visits; One for Tuesday and one for Thursday. My hotel is Toyoko Inn Frankfurt Haubhhanhoff. First I though it would be apprepiate to go FKK PALACE for Tuesday because since I will wake up so early and it is just 5 kms to my hotel. No need a rental car. So I will save cost. But when I think there will be a big messe during that time it is possible Palace will be cock fest. (This is also why I am in FRA during this dates. ISH Frankfurt) It is already not a very good choice maybe it is better to rent a car and head to Oase (25 km) or Sharks (19 kms). Also I must calculate the train cost to get there. I will wake up early on Wednesday.

My second choice on Thursday can be Oase or Sharks. But again I am indecisive to rent a car or not. And also which one to pick. Is it possible someone update for the current line ups? I will appreciate your comments.[/QUOTE]Hello,

First of all Toyoko is nice Japanese style hotel and it has good breakfast. The toilet is with buttons keep in mind LOL. If you are planning to visit clubs during the daytime your best option is Sharks. Go to the central station which is very close to hotel and take the train to Daarmstadt it takes only 20 minutes and from the Daarmstadt station take a 10 euro taxi to the club. You will find girls from 11.30 -12.00 . Palace is NOT. A good option before 7 pm not much action going on. Manhattan is the second option by taking tram 12 again from the HBF and getting off at Daimler Strasse. You don't need to rent a car IMO unless you want to go to Oase or Sharks until late night and drive back.

Regarding line ups you can never be sure who you meet and which is the best period. This time of year must be pretty good, after Christmas and before Easter they don't have many reasons to go home so they work.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2295951]I hope all of us mongers are doing our parts on this very auspicious day by fucking the women in exchange of money and helping their dreams come true. Whatever those dreams are. House, apartments, luxury cars, watches, jwellery, loverboys, loser boyfriends etc etc.

I'm in Globe now, humbly trying to do my part. Like to share your story of contribution today?

#MeToo. #GirlPower. #WomenInControl #InternationalWomensDay #MenArePigs[/QUOTE]I did my bit. A pretty 21-year old told me about International Women's Day and how she wanted to buy her own car, house, etc. I helped her out with [NOPARSE]15 euros[/NOPARSE]. She tried to make me cum twice, said I was her first gringo. Hamdulillah!

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2295971]Hello,

First of all Toyoko is nice Japanese style hotel and it has good breakfast. The toilet is with buttons keep in mind LOL. If you are planning to visit clubs during the daytime your best option is Sharks. Go to the central station which is very close to hotel and take the train to Daarmstadt it takes only 20 minutes and from the Daarmstadt station take a 10 euro taxi to the club. You will find girls from 11.30 -12.00 . Palace is NOT. A good option before 7 pm not much action going on. Manhattan is the second option by taking tram 12 again from the HBF and getting off at Daimler Strasse. You don't need to rent a car IMO unless you want to go to Oase or Sharks until late night and drive back.

Regarding line ups you can never be sure who you meet and which is the best period. This time of year must be pretty good, after Christmas and before Easter they don't have many reasons to go home so they work.[/QUOTE]Pksimar thanks for the advices. It is possible that I go to club at 11 pm after a dinner with my boss. And I will come back at 3 am to my hotel. Is it possible to find a train at that time easily from Sharks?

[QUOTE=Iceberg27;2296139]Pksimar thanks for the advices. It is possible that I go to club at 11 pm after a dinner with my boss. And I will come back at 3 am to my hotel. Is it possible to find a train at that time easily from Sharks?[/QUOTE]The best site to find the routes is the official of Germany.

[URL]https://www.bahn.de/p/view/index.shtml[/URL]

You can go that time but I don't think there is a train to come back at 3 am.

Get a taxi to Frankfurt it will cost you 60 euro and tell the boss to pay. What kind of boss is he? LOL.

[URL]https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/us-citizens-need-visas-to-visit-europe-in-2021/index.html[/URL]

Pretty pathetic situation.

Obviously for us mongers, this is a highly unpalatable situation. But even more broadly, this is a terrible idea considering how many people travel on business, tourism, family, and so many other reasons. People travel to the other side of the pond at a moment's notice and with no advanced planning whatsoever. Those days are coming to an end, per this article.

I did not know if US will slap a similar, retaliatory measure on EU citizens visiting US. Of course there is the situation related to those 5 countries mentioned, such as Romania and Bulgaria.

Wouldn't it be nicer to let to let the Romanian girls travel to US and then get rid of this stupid visa for Americans going over to EU? That would be a win win. I know I wouldn't mind if my favorite Romanian girls would fly out here occasionally. I would even share their travel costs if they can stay with me for a few days. I am a kind hearted man, haha.

The visa is valid for 3 years, so it is slightly better than having to apply for every visit or every year. That said, 3 years is too short.

Perhaps if Trump loses election, there may be new developments and hopefully a more sensible admin will hammer out a better agreement for all parties concerned. Let us hope.

We Europeans already have to get a similar authorization to go to the USA (its called ESTA) so its only fair -- after you the USA started it!

CNN article says visa application can be completed online in 10 minutes, and approval is automatic 95 percent of the time. Sounds like an excuse to collect some money.

[QUOTE=Sybarite2006;2296272]We Europeans already have to get a similar authorization to go to the USA (its called ESTA) so its only fair -- after you the USA started it![/QUOTE]From wiki:

"A fee may be charged for issuing a visa; these are often also reciprocal—hence, if country A charges country be's citizens US $50 for a visa, country be will often also charge the same amount for country A's visitors. ".

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2296330]CNN article says visa application can be completed online in 10 minutes, and approval is automatic 95 percent of the time. Sounds like an excuse to collect some money.[/QUOTE][URL]https://thepointsguy.com/2017/01/record-number-of-americans-traveled-abroad-2016/[/URL]

Hello Sir,

5% does not sound like much, but media reports say roughly 12 mil Americans are traveling to EU a year, and 5% of that number is 600,000. So, that many people who hitherto did not have any problem visiting EU from a visa point of view will be unable to travel.

Of course, this issue is now applicable to other nations as well and that may shut out visitors from other nations as well who at present have and problem visiting.

At a minimum, it is a minor hassle and if one is unlucky a bit more.

BTW, I posted another link from Condé Nast but I do not see my comment here. Not sure where it vanished, or perhaps it was declined for some reason.

[QUOTE=Sybarite2006;2295140]Hi Simon,

Harmony is the best of the Hamburg clubs for service and usually looks too. What I would recommend is go to Harmony during the day and evening till about 11 pm and then go to Babylon from midnight to closing time (I think 5 am!) It has a great party atmosphere on weekends at night time.[/QUOTE]Thanks I will give harmony and Babylon a visit and report back.

[QUOTE=NickTheG;2296256]Do you bring a book along?

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQuT-Xfyk3o[/URL][/QUOTE]Or a toothbrush, Ha Ha Ha.

[URL]https://www.ted.com/talks/mary_roach_10_things_you_didn_t_know_about_orgasm[/URL]

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2296332]From wiki:

"A fee may be charged for issuing a visa; these are often also reciprocalhence, if country A charges country be's citizens US $50 for a visa, country be will often also charge the same amount for country A's visitors. ".[/QUOTE]It has nothing to do about the money. The amount is very nominal. It is about being treated equally. The EU has delayed the visa requirement for many years. They want reciprocity. If we require a visa for Romanians and Polish people etc. , then they have to make us comply too. If they accept all US visitors, we must accept all EU visitors too. With Trump, they figured it is no use negotiating.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2295951]I hope all of us mongers are doing our parts on this very auspicious day by fucking the women in exchange of money and helping their dreams come true. Whatever those dreams are. House, apartments, luxury cars, watches, jwellery, loverboys, loser boyfriends etc etc.

I'm in Globe now, humbly trying to do my part. Like to share your story of contribution today?

#MeToo. #GirlPower. #WomenInControl #InternationalWomensDay #MenArePigs[/QUOTE]I really try very hard on this week end, already 6 clubs visited since Thursday night, in NRW, NL, Hessen, except one I chose not to go to because I prefer to keep in my mind how she was with me, but so few fuckable looks seen, only 3 girls, quite good at LR and Samya but no wow to run to repeat and only elegant, pretty at Palace, but a real natural beauty with very white skin, full natural, no tattoo nor piercing nor silicon nor Botox nor acid, but she said too much love for sex for her, not on level to play, even smiling with her blond friend after.

Germany is really not on top on 2019, compare to my last visits at Globe on beginning of January, where can play love in bed.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2296368]It has nothing to do about the money. The amount is very nominal. It is about being treated equally. The EU has delayed the visa requirement for many years. They want reciprocity. If we require a visa for Romanians and Polish people etc. , then they have to make us comply too. If they accept all US visitors, we must accept all EU visitors too. With Trump, they figured it is no use negotiating.[/QUOTE]It only sounds political because we're making it all about the USA but other countries are on the new visa requirement list too. Canada, New Zealand, Brazil, Israel, Singapore, etc total 60 countries on the ETIAS list, many of those same countries enjoyed Visa free travel before.

[QUOTE=CaneUppHosAss;2296337]5% does not sound like much, but media reports say roughly 12 mil Americans are traveling to EU a year, and 5% of that number is 600,000. So, that many people who hitherto did not have any problem visiting EU from a visa point of view will be unable to travel.

At a minimum, it is a minor hassle and if one is unlucky a bit more.[/QUOTE]Ok. Point taken 5 percent is a lot of people. However, you do use the words "unable to travel". Sounds like worst possible scenario. I mean the article said 95 percent automatic approval. It is quite possible that a huge chunk of the remaining 5 percent will also get approved--with a little more additional screening. Curious to see how it gets implemented.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2296686]Ok. Point taken 5 percent is a lot of people. However, you do use the words "unable to travel". Sounds like worst possible scenario. I mean the article said 95 percent automatic approval. It is quite possible that a huge chunk of the remaining 5 percent will also get approved--with a little more additional screening. Curious to see how it gets implemented.[/QUOTE]Hello Sir,

Good catch, you have a sharp eye. I should have said "5% are denied easy and quick processing". As you said, it remains to be seen how it is implemented and what happens to those that are denied clearance at the first try. Do they need to submit more documentation, do they need to visit an embassy, is the application denied due to misspellings, missing details and other simple issues or do they weed out certain applications?

I realized I misspoke as soon as I hit "upload report" button but alas it was too late. I wish I could re-edit some of my comments but this site is not allowing me any second chances, and I am not very careful when typing on social media sites. Perhaps the site owner can be kind enough to allow re-editing, at least for a short amount of time. But many times my comments take several hours to appear here.

BTW, separate topic but the currency exchange keeps shifting in favor of Americans. A year ago around this time, I visited Europe and withdrew roughly $4,000 during the trip. At $1.24 per Euro, I received approximately €3220.

Now, at $1.12 to the Euro, I expect the same $4 grand with fetch me €3,570.

The additional €350 Is a tidy amount for another couple of sessions, or a better hotel. Something our American friends here need to consider.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2296602]It only sounds political because we're making it all about the USA but other countries are on the new visa requirement list too. Canada, New Zealand, Brazil, Israel, Singapore, etc total 60 countries on the ETIAS list, many of those same countries enjoyed Visa free travel before.[/QUOTE]Interesting find about the other countries affected. I only looked at the CNN article that was linked. It seemed to make it all about the USA.

EU seems to be making a statement is Akibono's point. My understanding is USA singles out five EU countries, so people from Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Poland, Cyprus undergo additional scrutiny. EU wants them all to be treated equally. Sort of like one of us going to GT with a black friend. If he gets turned away at the door, the decent thing to do, even if you are not directly affected is to boycott GT, at least for that day.

Curious if the 60 countries also had "unfair" visa policies which treated those five countries differently from the other members of the EU.

I mainly just feel sorry for Andorra being on the list.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2296762]EU seems to be making a statement is Akibono's point. My understanding is USA singles out five EU countries, so people from Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Poland, Cyprus undergo additional scrutiny. EU wants them all to be treated equally. Sort of like one of us going to GT with a black friend. If he gets turned away at the door, the decent thing to do, even if you are not directly affected is to boycott GT, at least for that day.

Curious if the 60 countries also had "unfair" visa policies which treated those five countries differently from the other members of the EU.[/QUOTE]Not so sure about that either. For instance, Romanians, Bulgarians, Cypriots, Poles, and Croatians do not currently need visas to travel to Canada, Australia, Japan, and most of South America. Despite that, those countries will become ETIAS countries.

This is clearly not a reciprocity issue.

[QUOTE=CaneUppHosAss;2296690]Hello Sir,

Good catch, you have a sharp eye. I should have said "5% are denied easy and quick processing". As you said, it remains to be seen how it is implemented and what happens to those that are denied clearance at the first try. Do they need to submit more documentation, do they need to visit an embassy, is the application denied due to misspellings, missing details and other simple issues or do they weed out certain applications?

I realized I misspoke as soon as I hit "upload report" button but alas it was too late. I wish I could re-edit some of my comments but this site is not allowing me any second chances, and I am not very careful when typing on social media sites. Perhaps the site owner can be kind enough to allow re-editing, at least for a short amount of time. But many times my comments take several hours to appear here.

BTW, separate topic but the currency exchange keeps shifting in favor of Americans. A year ago around this time, I visited Europe and withdrew roughly $4,000 during the trip. At $1.24 per Euro, I received approximately 3220.

Now, at $1.12 to the Euro, I expect the same $4 grand with fetch me 3,570.

The additional 350 Is a tidy amount for another couple of sessions, or a better hotel. Something our American friends here need to consider.[/QUOTE]I am leaving it to someone else to point out that this ISG site allows editing own post for a little bit of time. Maybe that feature is only for the paying customers? Jackson, care to elaborate and enlighten us?

With these major events:

2017 - New law banning BBBJ, AO and any bodily fluid exchange or touching in Germany.

2021 - New law requiring ETIAS.

2030 - Total end of the world if the Green New Deal is not implemented by USA.

Anything else I'm missing?

[QUOTE=Gino02;2296797]I am leaving it to someone else to point out that this ISG site allows editing own post for a little bit of time. Maybe that feature is only for the paying customers? Jackson, care to elaborate and enlighten us?[/QUOTE]Hello Sir,

Thank you for the helpful hint that it is only for paying customers. I certainly was not aware of it, being new to this site. After seeing your comment, I looked around and I do see a disclaimer that the site is not taking payments from US residents. I need to explore this more. I assume this is a recent issue, as the disclaimer makes a reference to a date in 2018 from whence payments for US residents became problematic. Obviously, there must be many paying American subscribers here who have been here for a longer period.

As for your other comment here, I sense a bit of hostility or snarkiness. I don't believe that the world is coming to an end due to any of the issues you mentioned. I am missing the relevance of the Green deal here, and I think the 2017 law was well in the past and I don't know what kind of discussions took place then. The visa issue that cropped up is topical and recent and we are having a brief discussion. I understand you want to discourage such discussions for a reason, perhaps you believe they do not belong on this forum? If so, I respect your opinion but I think it is of interest to mongers who hail from outside Europe visiting European destinations.

[QUOTE=Simon2001;2296351]Thanks I will give harmony and Babylon a visit and report back.[/QUOTE]What happened, Simon2001? Do they have live bands in these FKKs at night? A place called "Harmony" should. Also, if you were born in 2001 does that mean you are just of legal age now? If so, congratulations! This must be an awesome experience for you.

Young mongers have been coming to Hamburg from afar for a long time. There is a heartwarming story from sixty years ago about a bunch of five British boys who went to Hamburg seeking to lose their virginity in the RLD. They posed as musicians in a strip club but their guitar-playing was so cacophonous that the neighbors complained and they had to move to another club. One of them was deported for being too young to be legal. In the new club the others didn't last a month: the final straw was when they set a condom on fire and nailed it to a wall, nearly burning down the whole building. The club owner was aghast. You know what the Germans are like. He had them all arrested and sent home.

But it was too late. The youths knew how easy it was to get laid in Hamburg compared to their native Liverpool, so they kept sneaking back to the Reeperbahn and playing their awful ditties. It helped that the Germans didn't understand the words and just thought all British music was cool. So the band attracted bigger and bigger crowds in Hamburg, and that is how the Beatles got started.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2296846]What happened, Simon2001? Do they have live bands in these FKKs at night? A place called "Harmony" should. Also, if you were born in 2001 does that mean you are just of legal age now? If so, congratulations! This must be an awesome experience for you.

Young mongers have been coming to Hamburg from afar for a long time. There is a heartwarming story from sixty years ago about a bunch of five British boys who went to Hamburg seeking to lose their virginity in the RLD. They posed as musicians in a strip club but their guitar-playing was so cacophonous that the neighbors complained and they had to move to another club. One of them was deported for being too young to be legal. In the new club the others didn't last a month: the final straw was when they set a condom on fire and nailed it to a wall, nearly burning down the whole building. The club owner was aghast. You know what the Germans are like. He had them all arrested and sent home.

But it was too late. The youths knew how easy it was to get laid in Hamburg compared to their native Liverpool, so they kept sneaking back to the Reeperbahn and playing their awful ditties. It helped that the Germans didn't understand the words and just thought all British music was cool. So the band attracted bigger and bigger crowds in Hamburg, and that is how the Beatles got started.[/QUOTE]I used to live in Hamburg and the Reeperbahn is a cool place for going out but for our hobby it's a bit of a rip off! Though one of the small side streets with girls in windows has beautiful girls. One of the prettiest quoted me 300/ hour for everything. I declined.

[QUOTE=Sybarite2006;2297026]I used to live in Hamburg and the Reeperbahn is a cool place for going out but for our hobby it's a bit of a rip off! Though one of the small side streets with girls in windows has beautiful girls. One of the prettiest quoted me 300/ hour for everything. I declined.[/QUOTE]Are they still making money with those absurd prices? I suppose the fame of Reeperbahn is near that of Amsterdam red light district, as the most well known place in Europe for p6. But one might think these two places had gone down in history as museums by now.

[QUOTE=CaneUppHosAss;2296805]Hello Sir,

Thank you for the helpful hint that it is only for paying customers. I certainly was not aware of it, being new to this site. After seeing your comment, I looked around and I do see a disclaimer that the site is not taking payments from US residents. I need to explore this more. I assume this is a recent issue, as the disclaimer makes a reference to a date in 2018 from whence payments for US residents became problematic. Obviously, there must be many paying American subscribers here who have been here for a longer period.

As for your other comment here, I sense a bit of hostility or snarkiness. I don't believe that the world is coming to an end due to any of the issues you mentioned. I am missing the relevance of the Green deal here, and I think the 2017 law was well in the past and I don't know what kind of discussions took place then. The visa issue that cropped up is topical and recent and we are having a brief discussion. I understand you want to discourage such discussions for a reason, perhaps you believe they do not belong on this forum? If so, I respect your opinion but I think it is of interest to mongers who hail from outside Europe visiting European destinations.[/QUOTE]1. There is a cash option for subscriptions. Link is in the top section of this and every page.

2. History repeats itself. It usually helps to have some knowledge of history to correlate with current or upcoming events.

[QUOTE=Sybarite2006;2297026]I used to live in Hamburg and the Reeperbahn is a cool place for going out but for our hobby it's a bit of a rip off![/QUOTE]A "bit"? Try total! Don't go there except to eat, drink, and be merry! The attractive German girl I butt fucked over at Babylon told me about how she started out in that area, and how the veteran girls would teach her how to scam and rip people off. Beware!

[QUOTE=TheCane;2297375]A "bit"? Try total! Don't go there except to eat, drink, and be merry! The attractive German girl I butt fucked over at Babylon told me about how she started out in that area, and how the veteran girls would teach her how to scam and rip people off. Beware![/QUOTE]The main reason veterans do that is because they don't want to loose market share when more beautiful girls move in. It has nothing to do with price, as the p6 market is extremely elastic. The total monger budget towards p6 globally stays the same. It is always all about grabbing market share from their competitors. As every p6 provider gets well pay given what they do in return. As long as you take away the dead time between the rooms. Apart from the 20 e girls at the RLD's in Frankfurt maybe. Because those buildings stink of sweaty men having gone up and down stairs LOL.

R Kelly facing 70 years. If he just traveled to Europe and raise the age to 18 years old and above, he could have got what he wanted and do not need to face 70 years and all other damages he got and going to get for his lust.

It was a helluva funny interview with funny contents and his unexpected reactions to interviewer, but it is also so strange how mass media try to portray / lead lust as something that is rather so evil even without considering age issue, which is main focus on this case.

Oppression. Most men are oppressed by society and end up having really bad or extremely limited sex life from pro mongers stand point. Well it is their choice to choose that path in life because the path to good sex is open to everybody with reasonable access in all perspective whether it is financial, social or mental etc. Are blocking them to do so is each their own.

These sex related allegations make me realize how lucky we pro mongers are to have best sex life and get away with it. It is all about prompt information, determination, some discipline, and choice in life.

At least for R Kelly, it is age issue being main focus, but other metoo thing could have been avoided if these guys are little more informed and disciplined.

I have not seen good reality comedy for long time, but are Kelly interview made me laugh so hard LOL. Macdonald M for mum LOL, are Kelly need help go give him smaller heart LOL, all the things he said was just too much LOL, but I guess he is having nervous breakdown or more like nervous meltdown.

Well let us pro mongers stay on right path.

That's not lust, that's pedophile and [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url], don't you see the differences? Do you realize that with all the money and the fame that he has, he could have had all the women (legal age) that he wanted? Men are absolutely not oppressed in this society, [blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue].

Dusseldorf. I will be there for 3 days so can only visit 2 FKK. What are the top two in this area? Thank you.

[QUOTE=CoolManFever84;2297637]Dusseldorf. I will be there for 3 days so can only visit 2 FKK. What are the top two in this area? Thank you.[/QUOTE]For me, Goldentime and Acapulco for 2 different reasons. Just avoid Oceans, as they scam at the door, the girls upsell, and they incentivize reports as false advertising.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2297839]For me, Goldentime and Acapulco for 2 different reasons. Just avoid Oceans, as they scam at the door, the girls upsell, and they incentivize reports as false advertising.[/QUOTE]I will say DV is a decent club but the 50 e upsell that is not present in most NRW clubs is frustrating. Ths said, I would say for a first trip it's on my avoid list. Thursday. Saturday evenings I think LR is a good club for service, but the optics aren't suitable for everyone. Bab can be interesting too, especially if you want to see the ladies unwrapped before the room or you want to see / participate in public action.

[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2297605]That's not lust, that's [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord910][CodeWord910][/url] and don't you see the differences? Do you realize that with all the money and the fame that he has, he could have had all the women (legal age) that he wanted? Men are absolutely not oppressed in this society.[/QUOTE]Yes I do, that is why I put beside the age issue and above 18 (including 18) which is legal age, in my post.

Men are not oppressed in society, but lust in general are and in case of men, we have different type of lust to women and that is oppressed like some of you complain about how USA being sex prison, which I still have hard time believing USA is sex prison to that extent.

However, there are oppression toward those who want liberty in sex. It is like so for many years and it got better now comparison to before, but there still is even in Germany.

LR always getting harassed, YY closed down for a year, Artemis was raided to the scale that did not need to and man, did you read what media wrote about Artemis? They wrote Artemis as some kind of biker hang out with women crying, forced to work there, [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] main hub, which was totally not true about Artemis. All of these bust got some kind of cover stories like tax etc, but has different intention.

I did not say men are oppressed, liberty in area of lust are.

[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2297605]That's not lust that's ped.... don't you see the differences? Do you realize that with all the money and the fame that he has, he could have had all the women (legal age) that he wanted? Men are absolutely not oppressed in this society, ...[/QUOTE]Good for your morale if you feel men are not the oppressed gender. But if such is the case why do you feel the urge to embark upon virtue-signalling regarding the AOC issue? Virtue-signalling will not save you or any monger when the SJWs open the hunting season in serious against men like us who put money into t'laffickin'.

[QUOTE=XXL;2297907]Good for your morale if you feel men are not the oppressed gender. But if such is the case why do you feel the urge to embark upon virtue-signalling regarding the AOC issue? Virtue-signalling will not save you or any monger when the SJWs open the hunting season in serious against men like us who put money into t'laffickin'.[/QUOTE]I have no idea how you translated what he said to be virtue signaling. Sound like he just called out another poster's illogical diatribe.

Considering that men hold most of the world's wealth and power, I'm pretty sure we are not the oppressed sex, not that I think women are all that oppressed in the western world either. Perhaps women have taken a bigger share of wealth and power, but it's safe to say that men generally still run the world. Extremism from super lefty SJWs isn't exactly oppression. You just now have to be tactful when saying bro shit in public spaces. That's oppression of speech at best, but that does not make us the oppress gender by any means.

[QUOTE=XXL;2297907]Good for your morale if you feel men are not the oppressed gender. But if such is the case why do you feel the urge to embark upon virtue-signalling regarding the AOC issue? Virtue-signalling will not save you or any monger when the SJWs open the hunting season in serious against men like us who put money into t'laffickin'.[/QUOTE]There is a little difference between a man having non consented sex and [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord112][CodeWord112][/url] on a teenager and a guy having sex with 18+ yo women and paying them. I really don't think I'm on the same side as R Kelly and I don't think we are both oppressed by evil women. Do a sex change operation and go live in some Muslim country, I think you'll understand what is being oppressed.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2297904]I did not say men are oppressed, liberty in area of lust are.[/QUOTE]You explicitly and irrefutably did:

[QUOTE=MrHo;2297506]Oppression. Most men are oppressed by society and end up having really bad or extremely limited sex life from pro mongers stand point.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=CoolManFever84;2297637]Dusseldorf. I will be there for 3 days so can only visit 2 FKK. What are the top two in this area? Thank you.[/QUOTE]At the moment, if you visit from Thursday to Saturday, my picky guy advice is to start at LR, for clubs around Dusseldorf. Unfortunately GT is quite down casting at the moment. As ask me Kate: do you return to Aca? No, when I visited for her.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2297904]Yes I do, that is why I put beside the age issue and above 18 (including 18) which is legal age, in my post.

Men are not oppressed in society, but lust in general are and in case of men, we have different type of lust to women and that is oppressed like some of you complain about how USA being sex prison, which I still have hard time believing USA is sex prison to that extent.

However, there are oppression toward those who want liberty in sex. It is like so for many years and it got better now comparison to before, but there still is even in Germany.

LR always getting harassed, YY closed down for a year, Artemis was raided to the scale that did not need to and man, did you read what media wrote about Artemis? They wrote Artemis as some kind of biker hang out with women crying, forced to work there, main hub, which was totally not true about Artemis. All of these bust got some kind of cover stories like tax etc, but has different intention.

I did not say men are oppressed, liberty in area of lust are.[/QUOTE]I agree with the prior poster, are Kelly acted with a criminal predatory behavior, and is being prosecuted as he should be.

I feel entitled to speak on conditions concerning the controls at LR due to the fact I have actually isied the club a couple times in the past 2 years, and I have factual knowledge of situations in the club. I feel certain persons on the LR management team inadequately addressed the formal warnings given by the authorities. In my opinion, this was the cause of the frequent visits by the authorities. Had they quickly and adequately addressed the warnings and taken proactive steps to identify and correct situations the authorities had not yet addressed, they would have been nickle. A little more effort and they could have raised to silver. If you have better knowledge or onsite I would be interested in hearing your theories. If it's this, female mayor of Kaarst has it in for sex clubs in the city BS, I can counter that argument 1000 times. My first argument is that the swinger, gang bang club 100 m away doesn't have the same issues. Let me know if I need more points to convince anyone. HorneyHarry and I have exchanged some PMs on different topics. Some of his points are much more relevant and they have nothing to do with oppressing men, but rather more about care for the women. Even his points on this are only a minor or maybe medium cause for the controls and the controls have done very little to eliminate the issues he raised.

I have said this before, and will say it again. Ask 10 different guys about the top 2 nrw clubs, and you get 10 different answers. Personally I would have said Aca and Oceans in the past. Aca is rumored to have lost a few top girls, and at Oceans it is a bit up and down as well, plus some light upselling now. A shame with the shutdown of YY. DV has upselling too. Perhaps slightly above Oceans even. Same type of girls as at Oceans also, but cheaper entry if you arrive pre 20:00. However, a bit fewer girls also. Most likely these 2 clubs has the prettiest girls in average now after Aca lineup has gone down a bit. The idea about fake reports regarding Oceans is probably nothing more than a crazy conspiracy theory, or related to emotional personal attacks. I don't know enough about LR, but GT doesn't have many pretty girls. Too many tattoos, 40 year old and silicone. PHG and Magnum has one or two pretty girls also. But Magnum is too expensive entry. Maybe the PHG / VV combo is worth trying one day now. That is 2 clubs for 60 e entry total. Samya is a matter of taste. Some loves it. I felt most girls there in the past were a bit too skinny maybe. With a few exceptions.

[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2298035]... Do a sex change operation and go live in some Muslim country, I think you'll understand what is being oppressed.[/QUOTE]Oh dear, there we go again. Lucky we have old Somalia and Afghanistan handy aren't we?

Meanwhile with some notable exceptions like the US and Germany, in western coutries a woman wo murders a man in cold blood never does any jail time unless she or her lawyer is a fool. That is now the sad state of affairs in our gynocratic police States. It is an unprecedented breakdown of civilization. No extremist islamic republic has ever disenfranchised their women as badly and criminally as western Societies have disenfranchised their men.

But men will remain blue-pillers to the end. Female victimhood must be upheld.

In a not too distant future women will obtain the right, whenever a husband can no longer pay his alimony, to have him put to death to sell his organs. And even then men will not get it. Men queuing outside slaughterhouses to be cut to pieces and have their organs collected will still believe women are victims and men predators.

[QUOTE=XXL;2298294]Oh dear, there we go again.

And yet with some notable exception like the US and Germany, in western coutries a woman wo murders a man in cold blood never does any jail time unless she or her lawyer is a fool. That is now the sad state of affairs in our gynocratic police States. It is an unprecedented breakdown in civilization. No extremist islamic republic has ever disenfranchised their women as badly and criminally as western Societies have disenfranchised their men.

But men will remain blue-pillers to the end. Female victimhood must be upheld.

In a not too distant future women will obtain the right, whenever a husband can no longer pay his alimony, to have him put to death to sell his organs. And even then men will not get it. Men queuing outside slaughterhouses to be cut to pieces and have their organs collected will still believe women are victims and men predators.[/QUOTE]Exactly. In USA we call these men "pussies". Unfortunately majority of the men are converting to pussies in all over the world these days, with no concept of self-respect, without even having a real pussy!

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2298214]I agree with the prior poster, are Kelly acted with a criminal predatory behavior, and is being prosecuted as he should be.

I feel entitled to speak on conditions concerning the controls at LR due to the fact I have actually isied the club a couple times in the past 2 years, and I have factual knowledge of situations in the club. I feel certain persons on the LR management team inadequately addressed the formal warnings given by the authorities. In my opinion, this was the cause of the frequent visits by the authorities. Had they quickly and adequately addressed the warnings and taken proactive steps to identify and correct situations the authorities had not yet addressed, they would have been nickle. A little more effort and they could have raised to silver. If you have better knowledge or onsite I would be interested in hearing your theories. If it's this, female mayor of Kaarst has it in for sex clubs in the city BS, I can counter that argument 1000 times. My first argument is that the swinger, gang bang club 100 m away doesn't have the same issues. Let me know if I need more points to convince anyone. HorneyHarry and I have exchanged some PMs on different topics. Some of his points are much more relevant and they have nothing to do with oppressing men, but rather more about care for the women. Even his points on this are only a minor or maybe medium cause for the controls and the controls have done very little to eliminate the issues he raised.[/QUOTE]I tend to think there are so called mutual agreement line brothels should not cross in each nation where prostitution are legal. In many cases, these entity who run brothels or related places has few board of directors or some kind of "consultant" who used to be former police as tool of protection from or negotiation with authorities to some extent. Lawyers too, but usually they have more than lawyers due to the special nature of industry. Prostitution is oppressed industry and so as mongers.

However, things do not always work out and it is impossible to run brothel without breaking every little rules and when things go wrong and these negotiation do not make all parties happy, then that is when bust or raid happen to give little shake to the whole situation to get something out of it or as pre warning to shut it down.

I can only say for Artemis, but all the reports carried out by media was completely untrue about that FKK, they try to portray the place as some kind of gang hang out where women are forced to work with fear by management, which is totally not true, but I got what media was trying to do. I felt negative campaign attacks were taking place against Artemis with some kind of string attached to authorities or / and feminist organization which actually has been outside Artemis doing demonstrations before.

I understood that part of the raid at Artemis was tax charge, but kenan was free of charge after few months and trials I think and there was different motive to the case. I think authorities or someone who is protecting Artemis wanted more of something that Artemis did not agree to give, so they got raided. I mean it was like 800 police raid with full tactical gear special squad fully armed to raid Artemis with just few security guards who is former German body builder champion LOL, I mean what was that for?

I also read funny article that I half believe, but mayor of Berlins wife or girl friend used to allegedly worked in Artemis, and she was identified by small tattoo she has. I tend to believe this news because back in golden days of Artemis, I found so many normal young German beauties just walking in to work as spot job for quick cash. Now Artemis is plastic monster older tutes habitat.

As for LR, I only been there maybe around 10 times, so I cannot say, but one thing I thought about living room is fire issue. I once thought that if there is fire in LR, it will be chaos. But usually if one brothel is harassed one after another, I tend to think there are different motive behind it like they did not pay something or accept someone as their board of director etc.

Bottom line is that, there are many other type of brothels that should be raided in Germany and not FKK because FKK is healthiest clean prompt brothel format I have seen so far.

I've heard this story before. Chicken Little was it?

I think this is the ramblings of a man scorned. Or perhaps the bar has just been raised and men who have not lived up to it are just bitter.

[QUOTE=XXL;2298294]Oh dear, there we go again. Lucky we have old Somalia and Afghanistan handy aren't we?

Meanwhile with some notable exceptions like the US and Germany, in western coutries a woman wo murders a man in cold blood never does any jail time unless she or her lawyer is a fool. That is now the sad state of affairs in our gynocratic police States. It is an unprecedented breakdown of civilization. No extremist islamic republic has ever disenfranchised their women as badly and criminally as western Societies have disenfranchised their men.

But men will remain blue-pillers to the end. Female victimhood must be upheld.

In a not too distant future women will obtain the right, whenever a husband can no longer pay his alimony, to have him put to death to sell his organs. And even then men will not get it. Men queuing outside slaughterhouses to be cut to pieces and have their organs collected will still believe women are victims and men predators.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2298214]are Kelly acted with a criminal predatory behavior, and is being prosecuted as he should be. [/QUOTE]Flying Hentai Sex Predator.

It is all about admitting that we are flying hentai sex predators. I admit that I am flying hentai sex predator.

We mongers are predatory too, only we go to FKK or other related brothel formats like escort etc.

Sex predators must know where to go and when to open our mouth.

Where to go, we go to FKK and some mongers enjoy mongering at home like I do. These are safe predator legal haven. You do this to normal dating world, you may not get away with it for long term, at least high risk even within legal female age that is. So where to go is important.

As for opening mouth about mongering, it is recommended to keep that within forum like this because it has privacy. Forum like this allow monger to speak rather freely, that is why we are posting here right? Partly because we cannot or more like should not speak out about our hobby called mongering. It is oppressed hobby that can easily be denounced as bad thing from society point of view.

Society will only see mongers like us who fly just to fuck as some kind of insane flying hentai sexual predators as well LOL.

It is funny, how they portray me as flying hentai sexual predator and these people go home and jerk off to some porn stars I fucked for money LOL or complain about their sex life as boring.

Well, I remain enjoying my sex life to the fullest as flying hentai sex predator.

Next time I go to Germany, if asked in airport, I should answer that I am flying hentai sex predator flying in to legally hunt white prostitutes in German FKK.

A few funny statistics:

[URL]http://www.oecd.org/gender/data/[/URL]

(OK I know that OECD is rotten to the core by feminists but whatever).

A nice little map for you, you can even click on every country!

[URL]https://www.genderindex.org/countries/[/URL]

Shit, they even took over the US Census Bureau:

[URL]https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2018/05/gender-pay-gap-in-finance-sales.html[/URL]

I feel really oppressed by all those fake news, I'm going to read now The Real Don' tweets, only him knows the truth.

Mozzarella from Campostella guys!

I am going to post a bomb here now and claim that the story of humanity is a story of oppression. Everyone is oppressed in one way or another. Even scholars claim that a society without oppression is unrealistic. There was even a book called Utopia where a ship arrived at an island reminiscent of a monastery where everyone seemed to live happily with their religious, social and political structures. In harmony with the environment. With no overpopulation, no private ownership. And slaves. Lots and lots of slaves, were an essential part of Utopia (no oppression?) Slaves coming from other continents, or being criminals from Utopia itself. This way, the slaves could do all the dirty work. There were several religions on Utopia. Only atheists were hated and frowned upon. In other words, they were all brainwashed cultists. And in their heads, slavery was part of perfection.

Is this relevant to FKK? Is this relevant to working at McDonalds for 6 dollars an hour? Is this relevant to cleaning sewers for 10 dollars an hour? How about going to war for your country's ruling elite and get shot in the head?

In the end, a Utopia without oppression is impossible without robots doing all the work for us. But some people may find it nice to have a hobby as a job. Say a professional footballer, or some pop stars. I would love to have sex with pretty girls if I got paid for doing it. Just not with the not so pretty ones equally much. I suppose you can rate customers on appearance and set a price accordingly. And as long as you are allowed to say no. Is it really slavery? The problem is perhaps deeper. It comes from the lack of basic income. And that is a choice made by grumpy politicians. Not jolly mongers like some here on ISG.

Men are predators. Women are victims. Does that make either of it wrong? Does that mean either are oppressed? No, it just means that evolution has made us that way. And now we are stuck in the simulation heading into a new time where new rules are set. And during times of change, there is complications and havoc. And leaders who makes choices always do mistakes. Through mistakes, we learn. So is feminism perfect? Far from it. Has feminism any positive sides? Most definitely! Can we generalize? Nope. Who is allowed to define feminism for us? It probably means different things to every single one of us. And then this entire discussion falls flat is utterly meaningless. The same can be said regarding manism.

Discussing neoliberalism may be a better idea. But I think we did 4 weeks ago.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2298312]I tend to think there are so called mutual agreement line brothels should not cross in each nation where prostitution are legal. In many cases, these entity who run brothels or related places has few board of directors or some kind of "consultant" who used to be former police as tool of protection from or negotiation with authorities to some extent. Lawyers too, but usually they have more than lawyers due to the special nature of industry. Prostitution is oppressed industry and so as mongers.

However, things do not always work out and it is impossible to run brothel without breaking every little rules and when things go wrong and these negotiation do not make all parties happy, then that is when bust or raid happen to give little shake to the whole situation to get something out of it or as pre warning to shut it down.

I can only say for Artemis, but all the reports carried out by media was completely untrue about that FKK, they try to portray the place as some kind of gang hang out where women are forced to work with fear by management, which is totally not true, but I got what media was trying to do. I felt negative campaign attacks were taking place against Artemis with some kind of string attached to authorities or / and feminist organization which actually has been outside Artemis doing demonstrations before..[/QUOTE]Any Cash based business is ripe for infiltration by the criminal element, regardless of how clean it seems on the front. It's easy to either infuse additional cash from criminal business efforts to clean it or to limit the cash earnings reported to a void taxes. All this said, I believe all the businesses involved in the sex industry have a heavy questionable element behind them.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2298288]I have said this before, and will say it again. Ask 10 different guys about the top 2 nrw clubs, and you get 10 different answers. Personally I would have said Aca and Oceans in the past. Aca is rumored to have lost a few top girls, and at Oceans it is a bit up and down as well, plus some light upselling now. A shame with the shutdown of YY. DV has upselling too. Perhaps slightly above Oceans even. Same type of girls as at Oceans also, but cheaper entry if you arrive pre 20:00. However, a bit fewer girls also. Most likely these 2 clubs has the prettiest girls in average now after Aca lineup has gone down a bit. The idea about fake reports regarding Oceans is probably nothing more than a crazy conspiracy theory, or related to emotional personal attacks. I don't know enough about LR, but GT doesn't have many pretty girls. Too many tattoos, 40 year old and silicone. PHG and Magnum has one or two pretty girls also. But Magnum is too expensive entry. Maybe the PHG / VV combo is worth trying one day now. That is 2 clubs for 60 e entry total. Samya is a matter of taste. Some loves it. I felt most girls there in the past were a bit too skinny maybe. With a few exceptions..[/QUOTE]Fantasies, similar to claims of sexless rooms and paranoia that other customers make insults about each other to the working girls.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2298362]Flying Hentai Sex Predator.

It is all about admitting that we are flying hentai sex predators. I admit that I am flying hentai sex predator.

We mongers are predatory too, only we go to FKK or other related brothel formats like escort etc.

Sex predators must know where to go and when to open our mouth.[/QUOTE]1 - Being a sex predator is not something valuable.

2 - A man seeing himself as a sex predator (or like a seducer / womanizer and so on) and going in FKK's is like a dude going to a butcher shop and pretending he's a skilled hunter or like another one entering a fish shop and bragging to everyone that he's a pro fisher. You're not predating anything since you pay. You're a sex buyer, nothing else.

[QUOTE=CoolManFever84;2297637]Dusseldorf. I will be there for 3 days so can only visit 2 FKK. What are the top two in this area? Thank you.[/QUOTE]This type of the questions is often asked here by FKK newbies. I have some time today, so I would like to share my view on this. Before asking the question, you should ask yourself 1) what you look for in terms of WG's optics or WG's service or both and 2) how good you are in terms of judging whether a WG would provide good service before having session with her if you look for WG's service.

If you look for WG's optics and don't care about their service, go to the Turkish-owned big clubs in the tourist areas like Frankfurt. If you look for WG's service and don't care about their optics, go to the ethnic-German-owned clubs like GT, LR, Babylon and so on. If you look for the combination of both optics and service, then the question is how good you are to judge how a WG's service would be before having first session with her. If you are good, you should go to the Turkish-owned big clubs. If you are not so good, you should go to the big ethnic-German-owned clubs like GT and LR.

The WG's scene (I. E. WG's optics) in almost every club is fluid and talking about it based on prior experience is often meaningless. I think that a monger should put much more attention on what (mainly Turkish or ethnic German) the club owner's ethnicity is and the size of the club, and use macro analysis instead of micro analysis. In this way a monger would be more accurate to find the right clubs for him.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2298578]This type of the questions is often asked here by FKK newbies. I have some time today, so I would like to share my view on this. Before asking the question, you should ask yourself 1) what you look for in terms of WG's optics or WG's service or both and 2) how good you are in terms of judging whether a WG would provide good service before having session with her if you look for WG's service.

If you look for WG's optics and don't care about their service, go to the Turkish-owned big clubs in the tourist areas like Frankfurt. If you look for WG's service and don't care about their optics, go to the ethnic-German-owned clubs like GT, LR, Babylon and so on. If you look for the combination of both optics and service, then the question is how good you are to judge how a WG's service would be before having first session with her. If you are good, you should go to the Turkish-owned big clubs. If you are not so good, you should go to the big ethnic-German-owned clubs like GT and LR.

The WG's scene (I. E. WG's optics) in almost every club is fluid and talking about it based on prior experience is often meaningless. I think that a monger should put much more attention on what (mainly Turkish or ethnic German) the club owner's ethnicity is and the size of the club, and use macro analysis instead of micro analysis. In this way a monger would be more accurate to find the right clubs for him.[/QUOTE]Good suggestion. But what if I'm too lazy to do my part on RTFF (Read The Fucking Forum) or too dumb to decide myself what I want? 😁

[QUOTE=Pistons;2298418]Men are predators. Women are victims. Does that make either of it wrong? Does that mean either are oppressed? No, it just means that evolution has made us that way. And now we are stuck in the simulation heading into a new time where new rules are set. And during times of change, there is complications and havoc. And leaders who makes choices always do mistakes. Through mistakes, we learn. So is feminism perfect? Far from it. Has feminism any positive sides? Most definitely! Can we generalize? Nope. Who is allowed to define feminism for us? It probably means different things to every single one of us. And then this entire discussion falls flat is utterly meaningless. The same can be said regarding manism.

Discussing neoliberalism may be a better idea. But I think we did 4 weeks ago.[/QUOTE]Last time (last month) I was in Sharks and Oase, felt like women are predators hunting for male victims.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2298592]Last time (last month) I was in Sharks and Oase, felt like women are predators hunting for male victims.[/QUOTE]Maybe. Maybe they weren't hunting men, but men's wallets?

[QUOTE=Gino02;2298592]Last time (last month) I was in Sharks and Oase, felt like women are predators hunting for male victims.[/QUOTE]Salaam Gino, did you ever feel a woman mentally undressing you? How debasing! With me they generally start with my turban and it takes too long and they give up.

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2298472]Any Cash based business is ripe for infiltration by the criminal element, regardless of how clean it seems on the front. It's easy to either infuse additional cash from criminal business efforts to clean it or to limit the cash earnings reported to a void taxes. All this said, I believe all the businesses involved in the sex industry have a heavy questionable element behind them.[/QUOTE]Yes both under ground, grey in between people and normal world in high level, but most of time, former some position like police or fed or family member of politician.

Sex industry is oppressed too, so easily targeted too, it got society's critic behind if you attack them, so easy to shake down.

Well sadly, we monger are benefiting from all this system, so as much as we do not want to believe, we are the receiving end of all this wheel of system they created for us.

[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2298561]1 - Being a sex predator is not something valuable.

2 - A man seeing himself as a sex predator (or like a seducer / womanizer and so on) and going in FKK's is like a dude going to a butcher shop and pretending he's a skilled hunter or like another one entering a fish shop and bragging to everyone that he's a pro fisher. You're not predating anything since you pay. You're a sex buyer, nothing else.[/QUOTE]It is all about how self righteous you are. You can think that you are the good guy walking into brothel, but from society point of view, it is perceived as same direction as sex predator or at least same direction.

One can say, it is on consensus based etc. I get that, but from most society point of view, mongers are perceived as same or same direction category as sex predator. Only difference I see is that legal format provide legal place for us to do same thing as sex predator guys do in open space, where as we do it in closed legal place.

It is bit like those people criticize about hunting, but they themselves are eating meat on daily basis too.

I understand the difference, but it is very thin line in between and from society point of view, sex predator and mongers are perceived as negative thing, it is about how self righteous you are to things.

I admit I am one kind of sex predator called monger, but only difference is that I do it in legal flame work like FKK or escort, that is the only difference between the two. Now you can point little detail about this and that, but what we want is the same as sex predator, it is just that we have discipline, brain and manner to do it in legal framework and we all here are willing to fly to other side of the world to do so LOL.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2298594]Maybe. Maybe they weren't hunting men, but men's wallets?[/QUOTE]Hunting for weak target with strong wallet.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2298589]... what if I'm too lazy to do my part on RTFF (Read The Fucking Forum) or too dumb to decide myself what I want? [/QUOTE]LOL. Then you should be too lazy or too dumb to ask the question in the first place because any answer wouldn't help you at all.

On a serious note, my post is addressed to any reader, not just FKK newbies, and hopefully helps the experienced or inexperienced readers.

Bfsie: Who owns sharks anyway? Oase is Italian owned, so the Turkish comment doesn't really fly there. Sharks also has many German staff personnel. And some Romanian. Oase mainly has Romanian, and a few other eastern Europeans personnel. Palace has mainly German receptionists, but also some eastern European staff like the pretty polish bartender. I believe Palace may be Turkish owned though. Same as Artemis in Berlin is. But I don't know if your stance applies to the Frankfurt area that much. The group of clubs with World, Finca and Mainhatten is rumored to be biker owned. But since I have barely gone to these clubs, I don't know which bikers. Germans? Turkish? Elsewhere?

As for nrw, it seems generally you are more spot on though. The German owned clubs management is stricter, while the turkish owned clubs are more loose. But then also better at recruitment.

I kinda feel the villach clubs have found a good middle ground here especially with wellcum. It being German owned, but with lots of Italian personnel. And some Romanian and Slovenian I think. Being the by far most pro club I have been to. Perhaps bar the top sauna routines at Sharks. I will check out Andiamo next week too and try and get a feel if that club falls into the same category. Hopefully it is making a comeback now that Marina got closed.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2298670]I admit I am one kind of sex predator called monger, but only difference is that I do it in legal framework like FKK or escort, that is the only difference between the two. Now you can point little detail about this and that, but what we want is the same as sex predator, it is just that we have discipline, brain and manner to do it in legal framework and we all here are willing to fly to other side of the world to do so LOL.[/QUOTE]I personally object to any consensual sexual relationship between two adults of sound mind and body being defined as "predatory" in any way, shape, or form. To me, again that's just allowing the feminists to dictate the tenor, tone, and definitions used in the conversation. I'm just not buying it and will not allow somebody else with their own agenda to define me as a "predator" or "sex trafficker". Nobody else, especially somebody who doesn't even know me, gets to tell me who and what I am in any aspect of my life, mongering or otherwise. They can say what they want to, but that doesn't mean I have to accept it or believe it. And often times, especially the older I get, I'm not even trying to hear it!

Who says predatory is bad? Evolution has made it advantageous for women to handpick the most predatory male specimens to give them children. So much so that it turns them on the more predatory men are. Because it then means their male offspring will also turn predatory. So in an evolutionary sense, predatory is highly positive. But of course, some people try to change this into a negative for their own cultist agendas. But mainly due to population control. So that is why it is easy to jump to the defense and claim we are not predatory. Although as mentioned above. Unless you are predatory, women shouldn't really want you due to lack of evolutionary benefits.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2298921]Who says predatory is bad? Evolution has made it advantageous for women to handpick the most predatory male specimens to give them children. So much so that it turns them on the more predatory men are. Because it then means their male offspring will also turn predatory. So in an evolutionary sense, predatory is highly positive. But of course, some people try to change this into a negative for their own cultist agendas. But mainly due to population control. So that is why it is easy to jump to the defense and claim we are not predatory. Although as mentioned above. Unless you are predatory, women shouldn't really want you due to lack of evolutionary benefits.[/QUOTE]Give them legal ground to suck cash legally out of male is more precise observation. It is most ancient hypnotize method that still works to most male population and it actually keep the society going this way especially capitalism society, but this is fundamental part of society to keep balance and keep the social system going efficiently until robots comes in to labor force more efficiently. Then we may consider installing basic income?

I admit I am predatory for beautiful girls, I love fucking them, but I do it in legal framework in legal brothel within legal age. I do it back home here and I am airborne too. I do not like to be limited with things that I like to do.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2298835]I personally object to any consensual sexual relationship between two adults of sound mind and body being defined as "predatory" in any way, shape, or form. To me, again that's just allowing the feminists to dictate the tenor, tone, and definitions used in the conversation. I'm just not buying it and will not allow somebody else with their own agenda to define me as a "predator" or "sex trafficker". Nobody else, especially somebody who doesn't even know me, gets to tell me who and what I am in any aspect of my life, mongering or otherwise. They can say what they want to, but that doesn't mean I have to accept it or believe it. And often times, especially the older I get, I'm not even trying to hear it![/QUOTE]We all got job to do and feminist need to put food on table by pointing finger at somebody to keep their existence in society we live in and what they do actually is supported by masses and unfortunately we mongers are the minority here hidden in shadow, but hey in life, in shadow is where the fun is. I mean I never would end up in some washed out rather dull car garage suburb area of German town or middle of German country side if there is place called FKK there LOL!

Many people do not know and only if they know is how I feel often, I just keep my mouth shut because I know and I experienced it like some of you mongers have. Many people do not like or denounce what they do not know or do not understand and what I do is out of society norm, so if I openly talk about it outside forum, I know I will be criticized and called many things and names like sex predator or whatever LOL. People are sensitive to these topics because it is in our education to obey and society norm often implant into our brain is that liberty in sex is not a good thing. Even on forum, there are many mongers who like to self justify what they do for hobby.

So yes, what we do is legal, we pay, and it is on consensus basis, but I have personality to give more accurate observation to what is going on and I realize and admit that I am one of major part of this sex supply life cycle, maybe most important part, which is demand. There is demand, so supplier supply us girls and legal format. Girls do it with their will due to their harsh situation that life has given to them, so even it is legal, I tend to think what we seek for as outcome and result is same as those metoo sex predator. Only difference is we can control ourselves and do what we want legally by flying to other side of world even to accomplish what we sexually want.

What we want to do as outcome is same as sex predator, we want sex but how we do that is the main difference and why we mongers are not press charged because we control ourselves and remain disciplined to do this legally.

I am sure if I join metoo demonstration saying to demonstrators, I am here to protest against these sex predators because I do what they do but I do it legally in German brothel, I think they most likely categorize me as same as sex predators LOL.

This is sensitive topic because society educate us this way and these protesters and masses that support them tend to be very radical in their way of thinking too.

Well I just keep on fucking beauties here and there in legal framework while these men remain frustrated in their life style of limited sex. I just hope they leave us mongers alone. Well we mongers are multi functional managed to find our heaven even in far land of Germany, so we mongers will always find way to young girls beautiful pussies and for you anal senpai cane LOL!

We mongers are the delta force, we are not just normal rangers LOL!

[QUOTE=Pistons;2298810]Bfsie: Who owns sharks anyway? Oase is Italian owned, so the Turkish comment doesn't really fly there. Sharks also has many German staff personnel. And some Romanian. Oase mainly has Romanian, and a few other eastern Europeans personnel. Palace has mainly German receptionists, but also some eastern European staff like the pretty polish bartender. I believe Palace may be Turkish owned though. Same as Artemis in Berlin is. But I don't know if your stance applies to the Frankfurt area that much. The group of clubs with World, Finca and Mainhatten is rumored to be biker owned. But since I have barely gone to these clubs, I don't know which bikers. Germans? Turkish? Elsewhere?

As for nrw, it seems generally you are more spot on though. The German owned clubs management is stricter, while the turkish owned clubs are more loose. But then also better at recruitment.

I kinda feel the villach clubs have found a good middle ground here especially with wellcum. It being German owned, but with lots of Italian personnel. And some Romanian and Slovenian I think. Being the by far most pro club I have been to. Perhaps bar the top sauna routines at Sharks. I will check out Andiamo next week too and try and get a feel if that club falls into the same category. Hopefully it is making a comeback now that Marina got closed.[/QUOTE]I said "mainly Turkish or ethnic German", If you want to get into the detail, I should say ethnic German or non-ethnic German, which includes Dutch by the way. The club staffs don't make the club culture and the owner does, so the only thing that matters with regards to WG's service is the owner of the club. Just for the record I have never been to any club in Frankfurt area, Austria, Netherlands and Switzerland, but my view in my post applies to any club in Germany, Austria, Netherlands or Switzerland. When a club is located in a tourist area like in Frankfurt or near Italian-Austrian border, it will get some distraction in terms of WG's service, even owned by ethnic German, because much higher percentage of club goers are tourists who maybe visit there once in life time, so the WG's service becomes less important for their business. The clubs in NRW, on which we agree with each other, are much more representative of my view without the distraction I mentioned above.

Pistons, I actually welcome your frequent disagreements with me like this one as long as they clearly and sensibly make your points, because they give me the opportunity to explain my views thoroughly. But please write your posts clearly and easy to understand like this one, and don't make any argument for the argument sake like going to FKK for you is to aid the WGs, then I have no interest to discuss with you.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2299132] like this one, and don't make any argument for the argument sake like going to FKK for you is to aid the WGs[/QUOTE]Not going to derail this further. But there is a difference in aiding the WG's, and considering payments as aid. One is ad hoc. The other one is post hoc. And an argument for arguments sake is just a common illusion one gets when disagreeing with someone.

If a person writes or says something. Anything. There will always be 33% who thinks he or she is a complete idiot by saying what is said. 33% mainly agrees with him or her, or think it adds something. While 33% doesn't care at all. That's just life. There are ways around these numbers. But mainly requiring alternative secondary channels.

Edit: It is also not to aid the WG's as per say. But aid to the girls. Where the transaction medium is the WG's part. Like giving prize money to an athlete.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2299132]I actually welcome your frequent disagreements with me like this one as long as they clearly and sensibly make your points, because they give me the opportunity to explain my views thoroughly. But please write your posts clearly and easy to understand like this one, and don't make any argument for the argument sake like going to FKK for you is to aid the WGs, then I have no interest to discuss with you.[/QUOTE]I've tried and determine it's not possible due to decades psychological trauma.

"Little Brother Syndrome: When one person feels they have a rivalry with another far superior person.

This definition of Little Brother Syndrome may be related to, or even a consequence of another definition of Little Brother Syndrome wherein a person vies for attention to make up for feeling under-appreciated. "

[QUOTE=Pistons;2298921]Who says predatory is bad? Evolution has made it advantageous for women to handpick the most predatory male specimens to give them children. So much so that it turns them on the more predatory men are. Because it then means their male offspring will also turn predatory. So in an evolutionary sense, predatory is highly positive. But of course, some people try to change this into a negative for their own cultist agendas. But mainly due to population control. So that is why it is easy to jump to the defense and claim we are not predatory. Although as mentioned above. Unless you are predatory, women shouldn't really want you due to lack of evolutionary benefits.[/QUOTE]As is so often the case, your pet theories here are really just rationalizations to justify your own selfish impulses.

By your logic r_ape should be impossible. Because, after all, r_apists are the ultimate sexual predators. And you claim women are turned on "the more predatory men are. " So women should be turned on by r_apists more than any other men. But if they are maximally turned on, and so maximally attracted, how can it be r_ape?

This is clearly absurd. The premise that leads to this absurdity is your notion that predatory activity by men turns on women.

Do you know any actual women?

But more to the point, do you know anything about actual science? There are all manner of genetic adaptations that steer our species towards cooperative social behavior. Examples include our capacity for language and other complex social behaviors, instinctual drives to protect children including other people's children, and our capacity for empathy and a "theory of mind" in others.

I'd be more tolerant of your poorly informed opinions if they weren't delivered in such an overly confident condescending manner.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2298921]Evolution has made it advantageous for women to handpick the most predatory male specimens to give them children. So much so that it turns them on the more predatory men are. Because it then means their male offspring will also turn predatory. So in an evolutionary sense, predatory is highly positive.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2299322]
This is clearly absurd. The premise that leads to this absurdity is your notion that predatory activity by men turns on women.
[/QUOTE]Yeah, it's absurd and it's paradoxical but there's a lot of truth to it and that's what makes women so hard to understand and life hard to understand.

One thing women are attracted to is a guy who can bargain well. It's because they perceive that in a capitalist society, or pretty much any society for the past few thousand years, negotiating skill confers wealth. It isn't enough for a guy to be rich if the qualities of wealth accumulation cannot be passed onto the offspring. So many girls enjoy testing a guy by bargaining over stuff (services like BBBJ being one example). The paradoxical thing is that she is more turned on if she ends up with a bad deal than a good deal. In this way bargaining with a girl is totally different than bargaining with a guy and it will screw with your head if you do not understand it. It certainly makes nonsense out of game theory or any theory that assumes all parties are seeking the best deals for themselves. You have to widen the context beyond immediate selfishness and see the big evolutionary picture.

The saddest thing is that all this makes women vulnerable to exploitation by a**holes like loverboys who give them the worst deal possible.

The appendix in our bodies reminds us that evolution isn't always up-to-date.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2299132]The club staffs don't make the club culture and the owner does, so the only thing that matters with regards to WG's service is the owner of the club.[/QUOTE]In some clubs girls take big part in making club culture too. Like at Artemis, owner had good control over girls in positive sense of word, but after massive raid and arrest, girls tend to be more free and took control of the club culture at Artemis. I think this is partly due to defense mechanism of the owner because investigation leading to arrest first began by one of the girl giving information to authority, which much later turned out to be mostly false on part of this girl, she mostly did that to get back on owner and also boyfriend reportedly biker who was trying to dump her. So naturally, after such big raid by police, arrest and held in jail for bogus charges for long time followed by court cases, if you are the owner, you will be careful about how you deal with girls, so now girls are much more free to do whatever they want in such club where there is no order any more.

This is sad because order that was there before was mild one with discipline, so it is not like media tried to portrayed. Good thing is girls do have their own way to keep some kind of order in club to make clients come back, but for those who knew the golden days, it is still miserable to accept some of the deals girls offer. You can still find reasonable deal which serve both parties because some girls are still fair enough, but for me what is annoying is all this negotiation before each session, it is almost like arguing with con man trying to hustle you into some fraud as if you do not know FKK.

All in all, it is what it is and we monger just have to deal with it and we do still get what we want after annoying negotiations, so still it is not one sided deal as long as you negotiate for each things you want to do. I still miss and love the golden days of FKK where there was set house rule both clients and girls agreed, this was total fair trade era of FKK, now it is out there to negotiate.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2299205]Edit: It is also not to aid the WG's as per say. But aid to the girls. Where the transaction medium is the WG's part. Like giving prize money to an athlete.[/QUOTE]Exactly! If all the girls (and guys) in the world understood how good of a sport active sex is for both body and mind, the world would be so much happier healthier place, and much less violence. We mongers are the pioneers to that Great New World, happy to both sponsor the sex sports and partake in it.

Maybe it can even solve America's (and world's) obesity problem in 5-10 years?

[QUOTE=Gino02;2299382]Exactly! If all the girls (and guys) in the world understood how good of a sport active sex is for both body and mind, the world would be so much happier healthier place, and much less violence. We mongers are the pioneers to that Great New World, happy to both sponsor the sex sports and partake in it.

Maybe it can even solve America's (and world's) obesity problem in 5-10 years?[/QUOTE]Most of us think like that, but they tend to think the opposite. It was like this, it is like this and it will always be like this. The system is design to sustain society and liberal acts of sex is not good for such system. At least, solution is provided because enforcing side also are in need of liberal sex too.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2299335]Yeah, it's absurd and it's paradoxical but there's a lot of truth to it and that's what makes women so hard to understand and life hard to understand.

One thing women are attracted to is a guy who can bargain well. It's because they perceive that in a capitalist society, or pretty much any society for the past few thousand years, negotiating skill confers wealth. It isn't enough for a guy to be rich if the qualities of wealth accumulation cannot be passed onto the offspring. So many girls enjoy testing a guy by bargaining over stuff (services like BBBJ being one example). The paradoxical thing is that she is more turned on if she ends up with a bad deal than a good deal. In this way bargaining with a girl is totally different than bargaining with a guy and it will screw with your head if you do not understand it. It certainly makes nonsense out of game theory or any theory that assumes all parties are seeking the best deals for themselves.[/QUOTE]Well put response. My comment there was meant to create a bit of fuzz. Because of it paradoxical nature. But truth is, quite a few girls does get turned on by these things Neurosynth petitions about. Something which seems like madness from a guys point of view having been brought up in Europe or USA the past 50 years.

However, I do know girls outside of FKK's even too. LOL. And have spotted some of these absurdities, or kinks in women. I believe they are ingrained in the subconscious mind from very long ago. Several tens of thousand, if not hundred of thousands of years ago. Due to the rations I gave.

However, teaching about these kind of things is what can ban you from entering so called 'liberal' countries like Australia. LOL! Like the american renowned pick up artist Julien Blanc got to experience.

[URL]https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/nov/07/protesters-force-us-pick-up-artist-julien-blanc-to-quit-australian-tour[/URL]

And yes, these things are backed by anthropological studies as well.

The idea is that it is evolutionary advantageous for women to get r_aped. Perhaps due to gene spread instead of one male inseminating all the females. Something which would easily lead to inbreeding. This is shown here in a study that shows how females who got targeted without their will, had a significantly higher change of getting pregnant than the women who wanted to have sex:

[URL]https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs12110-003-1014-0[/URL]

Another theory talks about how female psychopathy and sexual arousal towards being beaten (a male never beats more than the bare minimum in order to have sex) has evolutionary advantageous for the females babies. Because men will choose her if she enjoys that type of sex. And because her offspring will be males who r_ape, and women with the same psychopathic tendencies, or kinks.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2299382]Exactly! If all the girls (and guys) in the world understood how good of a sport active sex is for both body and mind, the world would be so much happier healthier place, and much less violence. We mongers are the pioneers to that Great New World, happy to both sponsor the sex sports and partake in it.

Maybe it can even solve America's (and world's) obesity problem in 5-10 years?[/QUOTE]Indeed. Think of it as a stipend given to top athletes. However, in retrospect to having shown talent in the first place and having been picked up by a college.

Or just as a stipend given to a doctorate student who wants to pursue his furthering of his or hers educational career.

Or as a grant given with ingenious entrepreneurial ideas. Also after the application for the grant is made.

In all cases, there is a high propensity for post hoc aid, or grants as opposed to ad hoc.

And the idea is evolutionary positive in regards to Darwinism and the human species.

Plus what you said.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2299382]Exactly! If all the girls (and guys) in the world understood how good of a sport active sex is for both body and mind, the world would be so much happier healthier place, and much less violence. We mongers are the pioneers to that Great New World, happy to both sponsor the sex sports and partake in it.

Maybe it can even solve America's (and world's) obesity problem in 5-10 years?[/QUOTE]From my real life experiences with nearly 20 years with different girlfriends and also speaking with their girl friends, or women at work or when doing sport, I learned usually women are not running for sex, but they are running when they get pleasure. If a guy is able to give pleasure to his girl, most of time she will ask him for again, she will not tell about headache or period, even had bloody rooms at Mainhattan, Globe and GT where little fire screamed when seeing her blood on my face. Some WGs know with who they get pleasure, maybe why they return first to these guys.

About prostitution, it is a social role in society, men need sex, I need pleasure.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2299382]Exactly! If all the girls (and guys) in the world understood how good of a sport active sex is for both body and mind, the world would be so much happier healthier place, and much less violence. [/QUOTE]Yes, but they will never understand because they are too caught up in so called society norms that are installed during our upbringing in school, media and several areas of societies in general. It is form of brainwash that take away ability to think for themselves. But some mongers managed to realize something wrong and began thinking for themselves for their well being.

However, this almost brainwash conducted by society to masses are good thing to sustain society. Without it, society won't be able to sustain its social securities, balance etc. Whoever thought about this system is genius and they did allow escape path, where we mongers can play and be free too, so it is all fair enough system if one can think for themselves and have will to explore it. I guess the ones who made this system too wanted to do that, so left the escape path.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2299382]Maybe it can even solve America's (and world's) obesity problem in 5-10 years?[/QUOTE]Like it did for Ron Jeremy?

[QUOTE=Takedown;2299216]I've tried and determine it's not possible due to decades psychological trauma.

"Little Brother Syndrome: When one person feels they have a rivalry with another far superior person.

This definition of Little Brother Syndrome may be related to, or even a consequence of another definition of Little Brother Syndrome wherein a person vies for attention to make up for feeling under-appreciated. "[/QUOTE]I agree with you. I think many readers and posters agree with you too.

[QUOTE=Samplerr;2299489]Like it did for Ron Jeremy?[/QUOTE]Good catch, but is Ron Jeremy an average male pornstar or an exception compared to thousands of other male pornstars?

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2299498]I agree with you. I think many readers and posters agree with you too.[/QUOTE]Unfortunately it's probably the silent majority. There's a triad that feed off each other, a support group if you will.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2299335]It certainly makes nonsense out of game theory or any theory that assumes all parties are seeking the best deals for themselves. You have to widen the context beyond immediate selfishness and see the big evolutionary picture.

....[/QUOTE]The "big evolutionary picture," as I pointed out, is that the evolutionary adaptations that yielded man from pre-man were in the direction of enabling, rewarding, and expanding cooperative intelligent behaviors. Humans didn't develop language so that men would become more predatory, and women more like victims. Humans didn't develop empathy and a capacity for theory of mind to become more predatory. These breakthroughs in cognition contribute to a move AWAY from predation.

And while it's true that women still prefer men who have (material, bodily, cognitive) resources to create a safe environment for raising children, the point is that women (indeed all humans) want safety. And predatory men are the opposite of safety.

Now, of course, specific women may have distorted behaviors and / or cognition in the other direction. But women who turn to prostitution are not a good random sample of the population. They frequently have control issues and daddy issues and histories of (physical, mental, drug) abuse and so on. They are accordingly individuals who have been driven to the thin tails of the behavioral bell cure.

This kind of Ayn Rand, "survival of the fittest," quasi-scientific, libertarian, "nasty, brutish and short," so called evolutionary (but not really) thinking is not science. It's projection. It's the projection of fear and anger, and it offers false cynicism disguised as (fake) fact-based sophistication.

To be sure there are some women who seem to actively seek out abusers. They seem to relish the role of being prey. But they are the opposite of the norm. They are, in fact, psychologically damaged and exhibit radically atypical behavior.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2299484]However, this almost brainwash conducted by society to masses are good thing to sustain society. Without it, society won't be able to sustain its social securities, balance etc. Whoever thought about this system is genius and they did allow escape path, where we mongers can play and be free too, so it is all fair enough system if one can think for themselves and have will to explore it. I guess the ones who made this system too wanted to do that, so left the escape path.[/QUOTE]For its time, it was ingenious yes. But times, and technology change. So I am not so sure it is the perfect way these days. But that would just be experimental theories. Normally these structures last way beyond its times. But now we start seeing fractures in it. In regards to #metoo and feminists ideas to bad p6 for example. And that is where I kind of see pure monogamy as the base problem. Because some men will always be left out. Thomas Aquinas wrote about p6, and I suppose more people should read what he wrote.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2299522]The "big evolutionary picture," as I pointed out, is that the evolutionary adaptations that yielded man from pre-man were in the direction of enabling, rewarding, and expanding cooperative intelligent behaviors. Humans didn't develop language so that men would become more predatory, and women more like victims. Humans didn't develop empathy and a capacity for theory of mind to become more predatory. These breakthroughs in cognition contribute to a move AWAY from predation.[/QUOTE]Exactly! I liked this post of yours. At least the parts where you stayed away from shaming illusional traits you project onto the discussion.

So, then humans should be able to solve these problems we are faced with as a society. Such as #metoo. Such as trafficing, prostitution. Such as child abusers etc etc. But we don't seem to be! We have cardinals in the vatican abusing chior boys! That is where we are today with these great inventions of language, empathy, religion (cult behavior and box generalizations) and cognition!

So how would you solve these things?

Pointing out that there are predatory instincts left in us from before we invented these things is just that. Pointing out a problem. It is not the same as saying it is the way to go forward. I have a feeling certain people here on the forum forum complaining about 'support groups' and stuff just fails to understand the discussion.

Perhaps your generation is getting too old to solve these issues, and we have to wait for the next. A younger brother generation. LOL!

[QUOTE=Pistons;2299591]For its time, it was ingenious yes. But times, and technology change. So I am not so sure it is the perfect way these days. But that would just be experimental theories. Normally these structures last way beyond its times. But now we start seeing fractures in it. In regards to #metoo and feminists ideas to bad p6 for example. And that is where I kind of see pure monogamy as the base problem. Because some men will always be left out. Thomas Aquinas wrote about p6, and I suppose more people should read what he wrote.[/QUOTE]Monogamy sound very romantic thing because we are raised that way through our home education, movies, TV, radio, in school, religion and so on. It was conducted this way to serve interest of many parties including general public, society and government etc. It was good for everybody when information and entertainment was limited.

However, time changed in recent era. Now some of us men knows that there are other ways for happiness in this modern world. It is less limited to live like king or maharaja or so called ruling class live many years ago. Also now, with invention and liberal access to once military technology called internet, we can communicate to each other about many subjects, which include sex life without disclosing our identity, this was big shift also I think. There are still many people even on this forum, who are still strongly boxed in with certain set thinking that are installed as we grew up. It maybe due to self righteousness or lack of knowing themselves or not able to see themselves or think for themselves.

I would say, we now finally live in the world where we could be more or less free, even with our sex life if we are willing to explore it, so I would say, let explore it and enjoy freedom instead of boxed in the set ideology that has been enforced for many centuries. Even with feminist pressures, BBBJ law etc. , we men are free now as we have ever been. Sex revolution happen slowly and it got its up and down, but now we have won our freedom more or less. I would prefer it if it become even more liberal to serve my interest as monger, but I cannot complain at all about current situation.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2299361]In some clubs girls take big part in making club culture too. Like at Artemis, owner had good control over girls in positive sense of word, but after massive raid and arrest, girls tend to be more free and took control of the club culture at Artemis.

[/QUOTE]You may be right about Artemis since I don't know it. But I can assure you that this kind of the situation will not happen in an ethnic-German owned club. My view that the owner makes the club culture is in the context of the ethnic-German owned clubs vs the non-ethnic-German owned clubs and that the owner of the ethnic-German owned club makes his club culture.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2299667]You may be right about Artemis since I don't know it. But I can assure you that this kind of the situation will not happen in an ethnic-German owned club. My view that the owner makes the club culture is in the context of the ethnic-German owned clubs vs the non-ethnic-German owned clubs and that the owner of the ethnic-German owned club makes his club culture.[/QUOTE]Well, the owner is Germany born Turkish owner, some say they are Kurdish, who knows, but they are not owned by Germans.

Owner may want to make club culture, but I know there are some price cartel between girls in some clubs like do not do this and that for 50 euro 30 min session etc, kind of fixed rule between girls kind of thing.

I agree with you about owner make club culture in some clubs like Globe Zurich, I only been there once, but it is as they say for service and owner put such rule in exchange for higher rate and it is deliver to clients as owner want with my limited experience there. It is Swiss owner too I think.

[QUOTE=Samplerr;2299489]Like it did for Ron Jeremy?[/QUOTE]I think Ron Jeremy is there to feed the demand for washed out monster fucking young babes kinda thing and his appearance may represent many american porn viewers, obesity type.

Pierre Woodman at his peak of castings are the way I like it in FKK and escort.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2299361]In some clubs girls take big part in making club culture too. Like at Artemis, owner had good control over girls in positive sense of word, but after massive raid and arrest, girls tend to be more free and took control of the club culture at Artemis. [/QUOTE]And I might add that Artemis owner allowed the WGs to be a part of the club's culture-making is itself that the owner makes the club culture, because he could let this not happen legally if he wanted.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2299522]
But women who turn to prostitution are not a good random sample of the population. They frequently have control issues and daddy issues and histories of (physical, mental, drug) abuse and so on. They are accordingly individuals who have been driven to the thin tails of the behavioral bell cure.
[/QUOTE]In my experience, WGs [B]are[/B] a "good random sample" of the female population in terms of the traits they exhibit. But it depends where you monger. In certain sex-hostile societies like the US and Iran perhaps your suggestion that WGs are freaks is true. They have to be super-hardened to survive. But the US is not a "good random sample" of the global population. In other parts of the world, women move freely between prostitution and other professions. I regularly fuck WGs who have "normal" lives as students, air hostesses, hairdressers, receptionists, fitness instructors, sommeliers, security guards etc. Furthermore many of them seem to me more normal, human, and less mercenary than "respectable" women I used to know in corporate jobs in major American cities.

That reminds of a hot girl in Europe who lives a sexy double life. In one life she works in a respectable bank and as a financial consultant. In the other life she is tuting it up in grand style, doing pole dances in front of leering Americans in a high-class FKK. Whenever I talk to her, I find it easy to imagine her in either role. After all that's capitalism: getting fucked (the principle famously discovered by the economist Scarface).

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2299769]In my experience, WGs [B]are[/B] a "good random sample" of the female population in terms of the traits they exhibit. But it depends where you monger. In certain sex-hostile societies like the US and Iran perhaps your suggestion that WGs are freaks is true. They have to be super-hardened to survive. But the US is not a "good random sample" of the global population. In other parts of the world, women move freely between prostitution and other professions. I regularly fuck WGs who have "normal" lives as students, air hostesses, hairdressers, receptionists, fitness instructors, sommeliers, security guards etc. Furthermore many of them seem to me more normal, human, and less mercenary than "respectable" women I used to know in corporate jobs in major American cities.

That reminds of a hot girl in Europe who lives a sexy double life. In one life she works in a respectable bank and as a financial consultant. In the other life she is tuting it up in grand style, doing pole dances in front of leering Americans in a high-class FKK. Whenever I talk to her, I find it easy to imagine her in either role. After all that's capitalism: getting fucked (the principle famously discovered by the economist Scarface).[/QUOTE]Unfortunately I can't share the same experience, 95% of the escort I met (300+) don't have a normal life or a normal job, they tell that story but in fact after meeting them several times you just get the reality they are not students, air hostesses. But just prostitutes switching from FKK to escort in one of the big cities in Europe, when they start to be a bit older after 30 most of them have the face of a prostitute and so easy at least for me to recognize them in a shop.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2299522]And predatory men are the opposite of safety.

This kind of Ayn Rand, "survival of the fittest," quasi-scientific, libertarian, "nasty, brutish and short," so called evolutionary (but not really) thinking is not science. It's projection. It's the projection of fear and anger, and it offers false cynicism disguised as (fake) fact-based sophistication.

To be sure there are some women who seem to actively seek out abusers. They seem to relish the role of being prey. But they are the opposite of the norm. They are, in fact, psychologically damaged and exhibit radically atypical behavior.[/QUOTE]I know I mentioned your comment was good. But don't get too optimistic now. Cause the 3rd and 4th paragraph was rather bad. 5th one was good again. So lets start there. You basically admit that there is a psychologically damaged part to it. While my suggestion, backed by science is that this is a trait that has almost completely taken over the subconscious for the majority of women.

It is not a quasi science. It is shown in pregnancy ratios. And you cannot fake a pregnancy! I will tell you what you can fake. You can fake a petition! So a petition is true quasi science. Especially to politically ladenned as this issue!

Yes, predatory men is the opposite of safety. But men became predatory due to the shortcomming of pregnancies. The most predatory of all great apes are the gorillas. And you see that in hiw big they are. And how brutal the smaller beta males [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] the females. It takes 12 years between each pregnancy a gorilla female can have. And when sex means pregnancy. And in the animal world, sex is an instinct fir making babies.

I think it's a simple inarguable point that the general prostitute population is [B]not[/B] representative of the female population all over the world, if not just for the mere simple fact that most prostitutes do not have the professional training or education of average western women. The Romanians might be the most "normal" of all prostitute populations in comparison to the average woman in their culture. Latin American and Southeast Asian prostitutes are certainly not representative of their cultures. Heck, German prostitutes are not good representatives of German women.

It seems to me, to make and believe this point, one must have very limited intimate experience with modern, real world women. It's consistent with the traits shared by the triad here.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2299769]In my experience, WGs [B]are[/B] a "good random sample" of the female population in terms of the traits they exhibit. But it depends where you monger. In certain sex-hostile societies like the US and Iran perhaps your suggestion that WGs are freaks is true. They have to be super-hardened to survive. But the US is not a "good random sample" of the global population. In other parts of the world, women move freely between prostitution and other professions. I regularly fuck WGs who have "normal" lives as students, air hostesses, hairdressers, receptionists, fitness instructors, sommeliers, security guards etc. Furthermore many of them seem to me more normal, human, and less mercenary than "respectable" women I used to know in corporate jobs in major American cities.

That reminds of a hot girl in Europe who lives a sexy double life. In one life she works in a respectable bank and as a financial consultant. In the other life she is tuting it up in grand style, doing pole dances in front of leering Americans in a high-class FKK. Whenever I talk to her, I find it easy to imagine her in either role. After all that's capitalism: getting fucked (the principle famously discovered by the economist Scarface).[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Pistons;2299600]Pointing out that there are predatory instincts left in us from before we invented these things is just that. Pointing out a problem. It is not the same as saying it is the way to go forward. I have a feeling certain people here on the forum forum complaining about 'support groups' and stuff just fails to understand the discussion.

Perhaps your generation is getting too old to solve these issues, and we have to wait for the next. A younger brother generation. LOL![/QUOTE]A problem that evolution has yet to root out is arrogance, probably because it can be useful. I do not despise arrogant men, so long as they have some reason to be; however, what seems to be more common is unjustified intellectual arrogance, self perceived intelligence. What's funny is that these perpetrators never seem to have the metrics that would serve as proof of intelligence. Things like using the perceived intelligence to achieve financial success or perhaps professional success could serve as proof of intelligence. Sadly that is not what often happens. Perhaps emotional intelligence could lead one to achieve power, societal positioning, or develop social skills, alas also no. What is astonishing is that these arrogant men who have achieved so little in life maintain their empty confidence. It's a testament to the human mind's ability to cope with suffering and emptiness.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2299708]And I might add that Artemis owner allowed the WGs to be a part of the club's culture-making is itself that the owner makes the club culture, because he could let this not happen legally if he wanted.[/QUOTE]Well, it is in part defense mechanism of the owner after new law not to involve too deep with girls management because whole thing with Artemis was example arrest to all FKK in Germany I think. All charges against owner was later dropped after multiple court cases, but the way how they raid the club with few hundred cops, some totally geared up like military operation was not necessarily at all, it was the show for media, which worked, and all those lies media wrote about Artemis was also scary how media in G7 countries are still like that, you know openly write total lies about thing they want to attack, it was beyond exaggeration how they described Artemis.

So naturally, if you are club owner, you will be be careful after new law was installed, so thing like what I wrote above won't happen to you, so it really did give some power or freedom to girls in club to do what they want. It still is fair enough and reasonable in FKK though, most girls are fair enough. Arguably LOL.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2299769]In my experience, WGs [B]are[/B] I regularly fuck WGs who have "normal" lives as students, air hostesses, hairdressers, receptionists, fitness instructors, sommeliers, security guards etc. Furthermore many of them seem to me more normal, human, and less mercenary than "respectable" women I used to know in corporate jobs in major American cities.

That reminds of a hot girl in Europe who lives a sexy double life. In one life she works in a respectable bank and as a financial consultant. In the other life she is tuting it up in grand style, doing pole dances in front of leering Americans in a high-class FKK. Whenever I talk to her, I find it easy to imagine her in either role. After all that's capitalism: getting fucked (the principle famously discovered by the economist Scarface).[/QUOTE]Exactly, this is one of the reasons why I lost interest in normal dating scene. Prostitution industry began to provide normal beautiful girls who live double life of all kind. I even managed to fuck normal models that are now famous enough to be in TV when she was much younger and not famous enough with limited money, now I see her in tv and make me proud of my decision to go out there to monger. Also some porn stars before they went on to porn and became famous in porn industry etc. I especially like fucking university students though, it is like fucking egg of something in this world before too matured, I think university students are the best season of girls life to fuck them.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2299484]
However, this almost brainwash conducted by society to masses are good thing to sustain society. Without it, society won't be able to sustain its social securities, balance etc. Whoever thought about this system is genius and they did allow escape path, where we mongers can play and be free too, so it is all fair enough system if one can think for themselves and have will to explore it.[/QUOTE][NOPARSE]
السلام عليكم, Ho-san. So you're content to be the one-eyed man in the country of the blind? Or the one-eyed dick in the country of the boobs? Is this what you call utopia, a system where most people are brainwashed and the rest must hide in the shadows because of their most natural instincts?
[/NOPARSE]

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2300000][NOPARSE]السلام عليكم, Ho-san. So you're content to be the one-eyed man in the country of the blind? Or the one-eyed dick in the country of the boobs? Is this what you call utopia, a system where most people are brainwashed and the rest must hide in the shadows because of their most natural instincts?
[/NOPARSE][/QUOTE]Well, Utopia as it can get. We are kind of hiding in shadow, that is one of the reason why we are here on this forum discussing our hidden hobby that is not suited to discuss in our private lives.

The definition of Utopia is each their own, but many men are killing their male instinct due to their implanted thinking, I think.

At least for pro mongers, we managed to use our brain and created our hidden utopia that we cannot tell most people who are in our private life. It is funny to realize most of us monger die one day hiding that we fucked throughout our life time LOL.

What is your take?

[QUOTE=MrHo;2299996]Exactly, this is one of the reasons why I lost interest in normal dating scene. Prostitution industry began to provide normal beautiful girls who live double life of all kind.[/QUOTE][NOPARSE]
今日は, Ho-san. Right. Imagine you are trying to make the "regular dating scene" work out for you. And you meet a beautiful model, or any other beautiful woman for that matter. And you woo her constantly. You don't want to insult her by offering her money. But she seems to keep stringing you along. After six months of failed efforts, you discover she has been accepting money from other guys. Then it hits you. Why would she fuck you when she can get 500-1000 euros for a visit from any other gentleman? And how is she supposed to maintain her expensive independent lifestyle if she is not charging on principle for her most valuable asset?

It is this kind of insight which makes guys tire of the normal dating scene.
[/NOPARSE]

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2300146][NOPARSE]
今日は, Ho-san. Right. Imagine you are trying to make the "regular dating scene" work out for you. And you meet a beautiful model, or any other beautiful woman for that matter. And you woo her constantly. You don't want to insult her by offering her money. But she seems to keep stringing you along. After six months of failed efforts, you discover she has been accepting money from other guys. Then it hits you. Why would she fuck you when she can get 500-1000 euros for a visit from any other gentleman? And how is she supposed to maintain her expensive independent lifestyle if she is not charging on principle for her most valuable asset?

It is this kind of insight which makes guys tire of the normal dating scene.[/NOPARSE][/QUOTE]Well, I just hate the fact that you have to suck up to women all the time, basically sweet talking to her 24/7 almost and also the fact that men are supposed to support her for everything and she does the house works? I mean I am not disable, I can do housework myself and the days when there are no washing machines or cooking devices are over, we even have robot cleaning the house now automatically and they work 24/7 without complaint, you just give it electricity.

Feminist talk about women equality, OK for jobs, I in part agree with them for certain corporate jobs, but man, there is no male equality in society in general, like men should do this, men should pay, men should work and make all the money etc.

I would go normal route if it benefit me more, but when I realized monger road is better for my sex life based on experience, I turned to monger route, I mean every men dream of fucking famous porn stars or even fucking them before they go into porn and all I have done in my sex life in those area of porn stars would not be possible without mongering world being so updated and efficient as it is now or how else would I meet porn stars? Without mongering platform.

As for human connections etc. , I prefer to do it with friends and pets. I agree with what Karl laggerfeld once said in interview. "I do not like to have sex with people I love". I love just fucking young beautiful girls who I love only for her appearance, so I can just fuck her like animal and it is all OK and I can change and she stay young and beautiful forever and supply is unlimited to me as long as prostitution is legal.

For me, it all changed, when prostitution industry begin to provide top level beauty young girls. I would say in this past 10 years or so, prostitution industry is at its best in history of this planet. This was a game changer for me. Line up got up and down, but this past 10 years or so, the industry really accelerated to whole new level. Sex revolution happen without us realizing it too much, but I think this past 10 years or so was sex revolution happened with my view. Quality got really better.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2299815]I think it's a simple inarguable point that the general prostitute population is [B]not[/B] representative of the female population all over the world, if not just for the mere simple fact that most prostitutes do not have the professional training or education of average western women. The Romanians might be the most "normal" of all prostitute populations in comparison to the average woman in their culture. Latin American and Southeast Asian prostitutes are certainly not representative of their cultures. Heck, German prostitutes are not good representatives of German women.

It seems to me, to make and believe this point, one must have very limited intimate experience with modern, real world women. It's consistent with the traits shared by the triad here.[/QUOTE]I think you are right. By triad, I am assuming that you are referring to a few recurring posters here. I'm new here but noticing that only a handful of posters write the majority of comments here, especially in the Lounge thread. I certainly agree with you that some of those comments display a total lack of common sense and are devoid of any logic. This is not totally surprising when it comes to internet discussion forums. But when you have thousands of commenters writing, as they do at BBC or NYT or other respectable boards, you can find a more balanced set of views. In here, with just half a dozen or less participating regularly, it appears that the writers are split into one or two factions with endless and repeated debates re: the same points over and over again. Actually, I would not call them debates because I do not see any meaningful exchange of dialog with decorum or intelligence. BTW Sir, your posts are an exception to this, from what little I observed in my short life here.

Anyway, two cents from a newbie. Please forgive any perceived rudeness, it is not intended.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2300243]Well, I just hate the fact that you have to suck up to women all the time, basically sweet talking to her 24/7 almost and also the fact that men are supposed to support her for everything and she does the house works? I mean I am not disable, I can do housework myself and the days when there are no washing machines or cooking devices are over, we even have robot cleaning the house now automatically and they work 24/7 without complaint, you just give it electricity.

Feminist talk about women equality, OK for jobs, I in part agree with them for certain corporate jobs, but man, there is no male equality in society in general, like men should do this, men should pay, men should work and make all the money etc.

I would go normal route if it benefit me more, but when I realized monger road is better for my sex life based on experience, I turned to monger route, I mean every men dream of fucking famous porn stars or even fucking them before they go into porn and all I have done in my sex life in those area of porn stars would not be possible without mongering world being so updated and efficient as it is now or how else would I meet porn stars? Without mongering platform..[/QUOTE]Interesting thoughts. For me, I can simplify I. I'm not a beautiful man, I'm not famous and I'm not so rich that I ca keep young beauties coming around just for my parties. So, €50 per 30 minutes is an economical way for me to have sex. It's a choice for me, yes, but the other choice is probably lots of porn and masterbation. I'm sure I could find a 50 yo lady to be my partner, but she would have to understand that I'm physically attracted to women who the only way I could have sex with them would be by force or via prostitution.

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2300404]It's a choice for me, yes, but the other choice is probably lots of porn and masterbation. I'm sure I could find a 50 yo lady to be my partner, but she would have to understand that I'm physically attracted to women who the only way I could have sex with them would be by force or via prostitution.[/QUOTE]Nice way of pointing it out. A few guys tout the choice of living the monger lifestyle and some use the term polygamy as a euphemism for paying hookers for sex. What they never mention is that the other choice they have, or lack thereof, is basically playing with oneself. It's much better for the ego to tout some secret lifestyle rather than calling it what it is, paying girls for lots of sex because the reality is that most of us will not have access to so much pussy and attention from so many attractive women 10,20, and 30 years younger. I enjoy the hobby a lot, maybe too much; however, to hold it up as some golden cow of enlightenment and nirvana is just a delusion constructed to protect the ego.

About FKK land, this is prostitution business even I try to find woman types meaning looking and behaving like a woman, not too bitchy, slutty, I run away from. Trinity discovered looks like a woman with Aphrodisia Zurich look. About girls, highest level Romanian girls or Germans don t work in brothels, but try to succeed in normal life. Speaking different languages don t mean being high potential to succeed in normal job, when on the other hand can make very big and fast money being fucked by us.

[QUOTE=CaneUppHosAss;2300285]I think you are right. By triad, I am assuming that you are referring to a few recurring posters here. I'm new here but noticing that only a handful of posters write the majority of comments here, especially in the Lounge thread. I certainly agree with you that some of those comments display a total lack of common sense and are devoid of any logic. This is not totally surprising when it comes to internet discussion forums. But when you have thousands of commenters writing, as they do at BBC or NYT or other respectable boards, you can find a more balanced set of views. In here, with just half a dozen or less participating regularly, it appears that the writers are split into one or two factions with endless and repeated debates re: the same points over and over again. Actually, I would not call them debates because I do not see any meaningful exchange of dialog with decorum or intelligence. BTW Sir, your posts are an exception to this, from what little I observed in my short life here.

Anyway, two cents from a newbie. Please forgive any perceived rudeness, it is not intended.[/QUOTE]Yes, it is very good that one can see themselves in mirror now, like you two LOL.

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2300404]Interesting thoughts. For me, I can simplify I. I'm not a beautiful man, I'm not famous and I'm not so rich that I ca keep young beauties coming around just for my parties. So, 50 per 30 minutes is an economical way for me to have sex. It's a choice for me, yes, but the other choice is probably lots of porn and masterbation. I'm sure I could find a 50 yo lady to be my partner, but she would have to understand that I'm physically attracted to women who the only way I could have sex with them would be by force or via prostitution.[/QUOTE]Even you may or may not have those 3 qualities you mentioned, the bottom line is that you have to make certain amount of effort, which for me is no longer reasonable amount, but rather irrational amount of effort because I realized these young beauties are on sale for much cheaper price with much easier access with constant supply that I can choose and change as I want. I do not want to invest my money, time or myself etc into some place where it is expensive, time, consuming and not rational, it is not worth it for me because I know where to get same thing I can cancel later for much cheaper price. Plus I even get different kind that I would not met or able to have sex with like porn stars even before they go onto porn, I break them in, this would not be possible for me in my social circuit because I am not in the social circuit which I meet porn stars often, and like any men, I would prefer fucking porn stars than masturbating to them on screen.

Now, what I mentioned above is for sex only, but I only want women for sex and not for human communication or human connection. I do not want too much of that with women. I prefer that with friends that I know since my youth.

This forum is bit special with some guys because we mongers have hidden side of our life and we can discuss that side due to anonymity of the internet. We will never have totally liberal society when it comes to sex, but I do feel that in this past 10 years or so is the liberal and efficient that it has ever been even with new law of BBBJ, metoo / feminist movement etc.

Money helps a lot, but you still have to use them, so I prefer using it wisely in right investment vehicle that provide me most quality and quantity, looks is important, but unless you are too ugly, one can dress well with prompt timelss style and charm can take you long way, as for fame. You want good sex life all over? You do not want fame for that.

It is bit like hunting, we can go hunting, but it cost more, it is harder, it is rougher and tougher and more expensive, so we just goto super market to buy meat, we got middle men doing all the job of preparing meat that we eat for us. I goto super market of young beautiful girls where all the problems and effort etc are taken care of by middle men legally, I do the fucking.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2300611]About FKK land, this is prostitution business even I try to find woman types meaning looking and behaving like a woman, not too bitchy, slutty, I run away from. Trinity discovered looks like a woman with Aphrodisia Zurich look. About girls, highest level Romanian girls or Germans don t work in brothels, but try to succeed in normal life. Speaking different languages don t mean being high potential to succeed in normal job, when on the other hand can make very big and fast money being fucked by us.[/QUOTE]Trinity? The Estonian one in GT? I was surprise to find real Estonian in brothel actually. She is nice person, but not my exact type as she looks now today, she must have been quite good looking when she was a teenager, but that must be long time ago. She is good hearted person though.

Siri, once upon a time, not so long ago, but quite few years ago, I used to find quite many so called normal or almost normal girls LOL walking into Artemis main bar during summer months making fast cash while their summer university holiday lasted and after they were never seen. Also there used to be a beautiful German girl who works in diesel shop during day and at night shift from 8 pm, she worked in Artemis. Back then, I thought that would last forever, now Artemis is older plastic monster habitat with paintings all over their body.

You and your woman type, I only care how she looks, rest I can lead her to do or I do it myself, I do not put too much focus on how girls are beside looks in brothel.

[QUOTE=CaneUppHosAss;2300285]I think you are right. By triad, I am assuming that you are referring to a few recurring posters here. I'm new here but noticing that only a handful of posters write the majority of comments here, especially in the Lounge thread. I certainly agree with you that some of those comments display a total lack of common sense and are devoid of any logic. This is not totally surprising when it comes to internet discussion forums. But when you have thousands of commenters writing, as they do at BBC or NYT or other respectable boards, you can find a more balanced set of views. In here, with just half a dozen or less participating regularly, it appears that the writers are split into one or two factions with endless and repeated debates re: the same points over and over again. Actually, I would not call them debates because I do not see any meaningful exchange of dialog with decorum or intelligence. BTW Sir, your posts are an exception to this, from what little I observed in my short life here.

Anyway, two cents from a newbie. Please forgive any perceived rudeness, it is not intended.[/QUOTE]As you can see, there is no hope.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2300628]Yes, it is very good that one can see themselves in mirror now, like you two LOL.[/QUOTE]
[NOPARSE]In the most ancient days of FKKs, a neurotic monger was walking through the bar looking more for an argument than good sex. A beautiful girl called Echo, admiring his tattoos, approached him and begged him for a session in her broken English. He said, "Where are you from?" She said, "Where are you from?" He said, "Are you into Greek sex?" She said, [/NOPARSE] "Are [I]you[/I] into Greek sex?" and DFK'd him passionately. He accepted the kiss, but then he realized that she was just repeating everything he said and cast her aside with an angry snort. She was hugely disappointed as she thought he was committed. She wandered the FKK all day, so disconsolate that she could not find another guy, and eventually left work saying she felt sick and telling the manageress Nemmie what had happened. Nemmie was annoyed at the loss of business and put a special pill in the drink of the monger which she thought would make the guy so lustful that he would spend twice as much. After the monger finished his drink, he was disoriented and thirsty and horny all at the same time. He wandered confusedly through the FKK and his robe even fell off and then he came to the swimming pool. Looking down he saw his own reflection and through the haze of his delirium it was like he saw his own buff self twenty years ago, and he did not even recognize himself but thought it was a girl swimming there, the hottest chick in the whole place! He tried to grope her pussy but the more he splashed the less he got of her. So he just gazed into the water and stayed there long after the lights went out, long after his rickety heart gave out. Having searched for love in all the wrong places, in the moment of his death he finally realized who it was he really loved. When the cleaners came in in the morning, all they found was a flower.

[QUOTE=CaneUppHosAss;2300285]I'm new here but noticing that only a handful of posters write the majority of comments here, especially in the Lounge thread. I certainly agree with you that some of those comments display a total lack of common sense and are devoid of any logic. This is not totally surprising when it comes to internet discussion forums. In here, with just half a dozen or less participating regularly, it appears that the writers are split into one or two factions with endless and repeated debates re: the same points over and over again. Actually, I would not call them debates because I do not see any meaningful exchange of dialog with decorum or intelligence. BTW Sir, your posts are an exception to this, from what little I observed in my short life here. Anyway, two cents from a newbie. Please forgive any perceived rudeness, it is not intended.[/QUOTE]And here you are doing the exact same things that you sanctimoniously accuse other people of doing. You and Takedown are in "bromance" cahoots, and it would be no surprise to learn that you are actually somehow associated. I recall that when you were supposedly new here, he made a post that essentially said that once you yourself hit a certain number of posts, that you would then be unmoderated again. Well if you are truly new here, then would why would you have to be unmodreated "again"? Talk about not making any sense. And how does he know about that anyway? Something definitely doesn't pass the smell test here. I also find it funny that people who are being rude, and they know they are being rude, think they can dismiss their conduct by saying "not intended". We're smarter than that, and understand that you know exactly what you're doing. Indeed, you make a thinly (very) veiled personal attack every single time that you post here. And you can't dismiss it away with your "Sirs" and "I didn't mean its". Again, we're all smarter than that. You intend and know exactly what you're doing. And so do we.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2300682][NOPARSE]In the most ancient days of FKKs, a neurotic monger was walking through the bar looking more for an argument than good sex. A beautiful girl called Echo, admiring his tattoos, approached him and begged him for a session in her broken English. He said, "Where are you from?" She said, "Where are you from?" He said, "Are you into Greek sex?" She said, [/NOPARSE] "Are [I]you[/I] into Greek sex?" and DFK'd him passionately. He accepted the kiss, but then he realized that she was just repeating everything he said and cast her aside with an angry snort. She was hugely disappointed as she thought he was committed. She wandered the FKK all day, so disconsolate that she could not find another guy, and eventually left work saying she felt sick and telling the manageress Nemmie what had happened. Nemmie was annoyed at the loss of business and put a special pill in the drink of the monger which she thought would make the guy so lustful that he would spend twice as much. After the monger finished his drink, he was disoriented and thirsty and horny all at the same time. He wandered confusedly through the FKK and his robe even fell off and then he came to the swimming pool. Looking down he saw his own reflection and through the haze of his delirium it was like he saw his own buff self twenty years ago, and he did not even recognize himself but thought it was a girl swimming there, the hottest chick in the whole place! He tried to grope her pussy but the more he splashed the less he got of her. So he just gazed into the water and stayed there long after the lights went out, long after his rickety heart gave out. Having searched for love in all the wrong places, in the moment of his death he finally realized who it was he really loved. When the cleaners came in in the morning, all they found was a flower.[/QUOTE]I wonder if clients ever died in FKK during sex, I mean I met some inspiring old mongers in artemis, some are real cool guys, but really old like he must have been like over 72 years old minimum, he goes to room and according to girl, he can get it up and still finish. Maybe he was the leader of Berlin blue pill man united, but I just wonder if there are some cases in FKK where clients die during the act.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2300682][NOPARSE]In the most ancient days of FKKs, a neurotic monger was walking through the bar looking more for an argument than good sex. A beautiful girl called Echo, admiring his tattoos, approached him and begged him for a session in her broken English. He said, "Where are you from?" She said, "Where are you from?" He said, "Are you into Greek sex?" She said, [/NOPARSE] "Are [I]you[/I] into Greek sex?" and DFK'd him passionately. He accepted the kiss, but then he realized that she was just repeating everything he said and cast her aside with an angry snort. She was hugely disappointed as she thought he was committed. She wandered the FKK all day, so disconsolate that she could not find another guy, and eventually left work saying she felt sick and telling the manageress Nemmie what had happened. Nemmie was annoyed at the loss of business and put a special pill in the drink of the monger which she thought would make the guy so lustful that he would spend twice as much. After the monger finished his drink, he was disoriented and thirsty and horny all at the same time. He wandered confusedly through the FKK and his robe even fell off and then he came to the swimming pool. Looking down he saw his own reflection and through the haze of his delirium it was like he saw his own buff self twenty years ago, and he did not even recognize himself but thought it was a girl swimming there, the hottest chick in the whole place! He tried to grope her pussy but the more he splashed the less he got of her. So he just gazed into the water and stayed there long after the lights went out, long after his rickety heart gave out. Having searched for love in all the wrong places, in the moment of his death he finally realized who it was he really loved. When the cleaners came in in the morning, all they found was a flower.[/QUOTE]All that work just to call someone a narcissist, LOL. Triad stikes again!

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2300682][NOPARSE]In the most ancient days of FKKs, a neurotic monger was walking through the bar looking more for an argument than good sex. A beautiful girl called Echo, admiring his tattoos, approached him and begged him for a session in her broken English. He said, "Where are you from?" She said, "Where are you from?" He said, "Are you into Greek sex?" She said, [/NOPARSE] "Are [I]you[/I] into Greek sex?" and DFK'd him passionately. He accepted the kiss, but then he realized that she was just repeating everything he said and cast her aside with an angry snort. She was hugely disappointed as she thought he was committed. She wandered the FKK all day, so disconsolate that she could not find another guy, and eventually left work saying she felt sick and telling the manageress Nemmie what had happened. Nemmie was annoyed at the loss of business and put a special pill in the drink of the monger which she thought would make the guy so lustful that he would spend twice as much. After the monger finished his drink, he was disoriented and thirsty and horny all at the same time. He wandered confusedly through the FKK and his robe even fell off and then he came to the swimming pool. Looking down he saw his own reflection and through the haze of his delirium it was like he saw his own buff self twenty years ago, and he did not even recognize himself but thought it was a girl swimming there, the hottest chick in the whole place! He tried to grope her pussy but the more he splashed the less he got of her. So he just gazed into the water and stayed there long after the lights went out, long after his rickety heart gave out. Having searched for love in all the wrong places, in the moment of his death he finally realized who it was he really loved. When the cleaners came in in the morning, all they found was a flower.[/QUOTE]Once in Artemis, I randomly met this Kurrdish guy, we began communicating like I sometimes do in FKK if I am spoken to, and we got along, then suddenly, he look at the phone and said come with me I got to goto swimming pool quickly down stairs, so without understanding what he meant, I went with him to swimming pool, then suddenly he started taking photo of swimming pool in the gym with his phone, I asked this Kurdish man, why he is taking photo of swimming pool. Then he said that he is taking photo of swimming pool to send it to his fiancee because she think he is at the gym LOL! Well it is some kind of gym I told him, I fly all the way to Germany to exercise with my special fitness trainers who are 60 euro per 30 min to do some exercise with me, it is form of exercise called sexercise LOL!

[QUOTE=TheCane;2300707]And here you are doing the exact same things that you sanctimoniously accuse other people of doing. You and Takedown are in "bromance" cahoots, and it would be no surprise to learn that you are actually somehow associated. I recall that when you were supposedly new here, he made a post that essentially said that once you yourself hit a certain number of posts, that you would then be unmoderated again. Well if you are truly new here, then would why would you have to be unmodreated "again"? Talk about not making any sense. And how does he know about that anyway? Something definitely doesn't pass the smell test here. I also find it funny that people who are being rude, and they know they are being rude, think they can dismiss their conduct by saying "not intended". We're smarter than that, and understand that you know exactly what you're doing. Indeed, you make a thinly (very) veiled personal attack every single time that you post here. And you can't dismiss it away with your "Sirs" and "I didn't mean its". Again, we're all smarter than that. You intend and know exactly what you're doing. And so do we.[/QUOTE]Funny thing is that I thought you were him at first. The restraint shown in his posts clearly proves otherwise. Pretty sure this is one of few times I'm actually interacted with this Cane but nice try.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2300735]I wonder if clients ever died in FKK during sex, I mean I met some inspiring old mongers in artemis, some are real cool guys, but really old like he must have been like over 72 years old minimum, he goes to room and according to girl, he can get it up and still finish. Maybe he was the leader of Berlin blue pill man united, but I just wonder if there are some cases in FKK where clients die during the act.[/QUOTE]I remember 20+ times girls talk about a client had died a couple days ago or sometime during the week. I've been in a club 3 different times a client has died during my stay.

I just got back from a skiing trip to Austria, with some club visits included. And all I can say right now is that I completely understand why girls have to act interested. When they get so much sex all the time, their run out hormones must make them feel almost sexless at one point. And this lack of enthusiasm must be the hardest for them to outplay.

A girl at Wellcum laughed and smiled at me one day after having told me no once two days earlier when hunting as a duo (which I always turn down). She said after admitting her name: 'I don't smile. It is because I hate people. ' Then she laughed about it because she was only having fun this day, not wanting to work. And she had heard both guys and gals mention her hardened working look and attitude probably several tines before. She wanted to win the competition, and was just going to dance and make party instead of the usual routine. Her eyes lit up almost more than I have ever seen an FKK girl do before. It was a great display of self awareness and irony. Not having to be a robot and do the standard routine. I asked her for a room later as well. Which was replied with her asking me to stay and dance and party instead.

I guess the box routines happening inside these clubs, and quite generally in life as a whole with any type of work, drags the enthusiasm down. All we want, men and women is to escape. There is always one part of us where we want to start anew. Be it a forum nickname, a marriage, a friendship, an education, a job, a house at a bad location, wrong country with crazed politicians, or anything else.

As long as we are able to make these escapes, and create an illusion out of them that makes us believe in the idea of free will, we will be happy. So maybe we should still limit our knowledge and brainpower going forward. That way we might still think it is not a predetermined simulation we are experimenting, but something we have a say in.

I didn't go with that girl this time around. And on that day I was one out of perhaps ten who got turned down by her. But we did reach a connection. Like going to the room without having sex. And that can be a strategy too.

I drove for 4 hours tonight, and fell asleep behind the wheel over 30 times times going at 125 km / h. In a world of free will I would have been clean dead by now. But in our little simulation here, I was not determined to die. I was determined to write this little useless report here on ISG instead. And before I exited my lane a couple of dousing times, I sensed something was wrong. Something subconscious woke me up again and again. As if I could see the future. As if my subconscious knew that also time was a lie, and that everything is predetermined. A split second from death again and again. Like Russian roulette after a party with Vito Corleone high up in the Austrian apls.

[QUOTE=VitoCorleone;2300972]I've been in a club 3 different times a client has died during my stay.[/QUOTE]I only pray, Don Corleone, you were not called upon to do it personally. [I]Tutti odiano un chiacchierone![/I].

I remember I was in Casa Cherda in The Hague, and a girl told me that an 88-year old had died there in delicto the previous week. Well if you had to choose the manner of your death, what would you say? Maybe places could advertise it as a service. FKK Euthanasia.

But I wouldn't recommend Casa Cherda for this kind of thing. The lineup was meh. In the Netherlands you are not going to die of excitement, more likely die of boredom.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2300930]Funny thing is that I thought you were him at first. The restraint shown in his posts clearly proves otherwise.[/QUOTE]That was written with restraint. Believe me.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2301258]I only pray, Don Corleone, you were not called upon to do it personally. [I]Tutti odiano un chiacchierone![/I].

I remember I was in Casa Cherda in The Hague, and a girl told me that an 88-year old had died there in delicto the previous week. Well if you had to choose the manner of your death, what would you say? Maybe places could advertise it as a service. FKK Euthanasia.

But I wouldn't recommend Casa Cherda for this kind of thing. The lineup was meh. In the Netherlands you are not going to die of excitement, more likely die of boredom.[/QUOTE]I sent Luca Brasi to take care of it.

It wasn't a big deal. Ambulance shows up & do their job. Girl is traumatized but the club is business as usual.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2301134]... I drove for 4 hours tonight, and fell asleep behind the wheel over 30 times times going at 125 km / h. ...[/QUOTE]If you want to drive off the edge of a cliff alone, I suppose that's your choice.

But you have no right to endanger the lives of other drivers like that.

Next time pull off into an Aral or the like. Sleep for a couple hours.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2301318]If you want to drive off the edge of a cliff alone, I suppose that's your choice.

But you have no right to endanger the lives of other drivers like that.

Next time pull off into an Aral or the like. Sleep for a couple hours.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I second that. I pulled over and took naps at gas stations countless times between Darmstadt and Schwerzenbach, otherwise I might have caused danger to me and others on the autobahn.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2301318]If you want to drive off the edge of a cliff alone, I suppose that's your choice.

But you have no right to endanger the lives of other drivers like that.

Next time pull off into an Aral or the like. Sleep for a couple hours.[/QUOTE]By the time I reached my gate at Vienna airport, boarding was about to finish, and I had ten minutes left till gate closed. I did manage to squeeze in a ten minute nap with 180 km left to go. But I am a pretty skilled driver, even on the subconscious level. Then again, I am sure that in twenty years from now, driving a car will probably become illegal.

[QUOTE=VitoCorleone;2300972]I remember 20+ times girls talk about a client had died a couple days ago or sometime during the week. I've been in a club 3 different times a client has died during my stay.[/QUOTE]Hi Vito o / On Sunday,

It is elderly peoples day in Artemis, so naturally, there are many elderly people there on Sunday and I got to know some of them, they turned out to be real friendly people. They mostly hang out, but they do go to room and one of the girl I session with over the years sometimes go with one of the elderly and she claims he can really fuck and cum. It is quite inspirational thing because sometimes I wonder how long monger can go on especially with condition that is set to us which is travel and consecutive FKK days of fucking and cumming few times per day everyday during our trips, but these elderly do give me inspiration that one can keep on fucking till our 70's.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2301134]I just got back from a skiing trip to Austria, with some club visits included. And all I can say right now is that I completely understand why girls have to act interested. When they get so much sex all the time, their run out hormones must make them feel almost sexless at one point. And this lack of enthusiasm must be the hardest for them to outplay.[/QUOTE]Mental side is hard and I think these girls are very strong to be so nice and some of them being warm hearted in such a given hard situation in FKK.

However, what I am even more surprise is their physical capability. I mean some girls do 5 to 10 rooms every day, and usually some of them go on for like one month at a time or even longer with only one day holiday at a time and in some club like Artemis only 2 consecutive holiday is allowed even you are sick, if longer you have to go home and cannot sleep at the club dormitory upstairs. It is crazy how much pounding, sucking among other activities pussies can take without getting it totally damaged.

When I first found German FKK, I was in my late 20's, so I could fuck like 7 cums per day or even more on good physical day, so I did many sessions everyday and I used to go 10 days and max was 14 days everyday in FKK, toward the end, my dick sometimes got cut LOL, but I still went on LOL, seriously female pussies are strong thing getting fucked everyday numerous multiple times for like a month or months and still OK. So I am surprise also with their physical side.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2301261]That was written with restraint. Believe me.[/QUOTE]Well that person is filled with anger and hate and pointing fingers without able to see himself. It is himself and not themselves because he has two accounts with two handle name. It got to be taken down.

There is a lack of human connection. This hobby is both time consuming and secretive, so the men who partake in this hobby at addict-levels, I would say are more socially isolated then the general male population. This in itself is alarming, because many psychologists already consider loneliness to be a huge health risk for middle-aged men in many Western and East Asian countries: [URL]https://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/2017/03/09/the-biggest-threat-facing-middle-age-men-isn-smoking-obesity-loneliness/k6saC9FnnHQCUbf5mJ8okL/story.html[/URL].

Internet forums and social media allow us to maintain contact with friends and family or form friendships with like-minded strangers on the other side of the world. But the problem is when one withdraws from society, and seeks only to interact in a virtual world because it is "safer". They use internet forums to alleviate their loneliness. They just want to be heard. They struggle to be noticed. So they repeat themselves over and over again.

[QUOTE]In psychology, logorrhea or logorrhoea (from Ancient Greek λόγος logos "word" and ῥέω rheo "to flow") is a communication disorder that causes excessive wordiness and repetitiveness, which can sometimes lead to incoherency. Logorrhea is sometimes classified as a mental illness, though it is more commonly classified as a symptom of mental illness or brain injury.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logorrhea_(psychology)[/QUOTE]I am not posting this because I am deliberately trying to attack anyone. I just hope the ones that need help get help. I have admitted to being slightly socially awkward in the past. And sometimes I feel disconnected and drifting. I have let friendships lapse. Sometimes checking my phone and then feeling like a loser because I only have work related messages or messages from another monger. I mean I am not some 20 year old Instagram model that can post photos and get socially validated with thousands of likes in a matter of minutes.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2301261]That was written with restraint. Believe me.[/QUOTE]Keep working at it. Stress and anger is a disease.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2301365]There is a lack of human connection. This hobby is both time consuming and secretive, so the men who partake in this hobby at addict-levels, I would say are more socially isolated then the general male population..[/QUOTE]That is stereo type man, we or at least most of us write here because we can talk about mongering which we cannot talk about in our private lives. I cannot talk to colleague, my parent or my friends (beside very few who knows about my mongering) about my mongering side of life, I hide it.

In life, most of close friends, you make them at high school and university and some lucky ones has childhood friends from even before that. I lost contact with most childhood friends, but since I went to boarding school, I kept contact from my high schools and Universities (I went to 2), and I am mild believer that once you go out there to society after university, it is much harder to make friends because we no longer are innocent.

Some talk about addicted to mongering, but that is society stereo type, addiction is when one cannot control yourself toward certain hobby etc, thinking about mongering all the time is no problem, it is human basic instinct called lust, but once you cannot control your spending toward it or sacrifice all your life for it, then it is an addiction. I can fly to Germany every month if I want to, but I limit my self to 3 trips max or sometimes just 1 trip per year and I also monger here at home too every month, but I do not call this addiction, but something I love to do and it is human lust. It is just society try to lead you or even brainwash you to think that liberal sex is bad thing for their benefits. But that is not to my benefits. And we cannot even talk like this in our private life without getting attack, so when it comes to mongering we write here on sex forum.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2301365]There is a lack of human connection. This hobby is both time consuming and secretive, so the men who partake in this hobby at addict-levels, I would say are more socially isolated then the general male population. This in itself is alarming, because many psychologists already consider loneliness to be a huge health risk for middle-aged men in many Western and East Asian countries: [URL]https://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/2017/03/09/the-biggest-threat-facing-middle-age-men-isn-smoking-obesity-loneliness/k6saC9FnnHQCUbf5mJ8okL/story.html[/URL].

Internet forums and social media allow us to maintain contact with friends and family or form friendships with like-minded strangers on the other side of the world. But the problem is when one withdraws from society, and seeks only to interact in a virtual world because it is "safer". They use internet forums to alleviate their loneliness. They just want to be heard. They struggle to be noticed. So they repeat themselves over and over again.[/QUOTE]Personally I feel there is also a disease out there to always define people as having psychological disorders, or syndromes. It is a syndrome in and of itself to define syndromes.

When that is said, technology is definitely isolating people. What you talk about here in regards to our little mongering segment in this world has been studied far greater in regards to for example computer gaming. Where it is has far greater outreaches as well. And the results seems to go both ways. Claiming it leads both to increasing loneliness, and decreasing it. Taking this further, a twitch streamer is in a way doing the exact same thing as an instagrammer. And the instagrammer can practically get funded to travel half way around the world, paid for and all by travel operators doing marketing campaigns for young people. The difference with mongering is perhaps the legal issues in regards to political correctness. Which I feel is the reason this topic comes up again and again here in this thread ad nauseum. But I believe we are all tired of this. So defining discussing it as a syndrome, or anything, feels misplaced in our context.

A reason for escapist ideas to be good for us is that anywhere from 90-98% of our daily thoughts, are repetitive from day to day. And 80% of these thoughts are negative.

The escapism related to travelling, is also helping the brain become more creative:

[URL]https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/03/for-a-more-creative-brain-travel/388135/[/URL]

I suppose however that going back to the same destinations over and over, can be repetitive. And in that sense, it is easy to fall back on negativity. I like to think of this as being isolated as opposed to exploration. But how do we define mongering as explorations? Is new girls, or new lineups the same as exploration? Or how about a new club? Is finding a non Romanian girl enough? How about an Italian, or a Spanish? (Pun intended). Or does a monger need to travel to a new continent?

One might say travelling to do non mongering things helps as well. At least mixing it up with skiing, beach sports, or even going to museums. But mongering is in a way like partying. Just with a secure ending at the end. Even if the conversations does seem to get a bit on the repetitive side. Sex, and the release of Oxycontin and endorphins does also have great healing properties on the physical level as well. So Mr. Ho has a good point in defining working girls as some form of doctors.

Now I do agree with what may be the notion you are trying to pursue here though. At least what I assume it is. That any form or day to day open personal interaction is better than living a double life where we need to hide it. The idea of dishonesty is probably not good for anybody. Public relation and communications theory is very straight forward on this. The by far best way is the symmetrical two way honest conversation. Everything else leads to distrust. And this distrust is perhaps a key ingredient to all the 80% negative thoughts we have in our daily lives. Too bad most of the world does not believe in the two way symmetrical conversation. But rather in the asymmetrical marketing bullshit.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2301385]Personally I feel there is also a disease out there to always define people as having psychological disorders, or syndromes. It is a syndrome in and of itself to define syndromes.


Now I do agree with what may be the notion you are trying to pursue here though. At least what I assume it is. That any form or day to day open personal interaction is better than living a double life where we need to hide it. The idea of dishonesty is probably not good for anybody. Public relation and communications theory is very straight forward on this. The by far best way is the symmetrical two way honest conversation. Everything else leads to distrust. And this distrust is perhaps a key ingredient to all the 80% negative thoughts we have in our daily lives. Too bad most of the world does not believe in the two way symmetrical conversation. But rather in the asymmetrical marketing bullshit.[/QUOTE]It is depend on how you think. Negatively thinking it isolated some people, but positively thinking, it put people more together and closer. For mongers, I tend to think of putting people close together and gave me deeper understanding of where to go etc and also thing behind mongering industry.

This is because for most mongers, we have to hide our mongering side of life, but internet and technology is not bad thing because it gave us platform where mongers can communicate with anonymity. So it is not all bad thing and did not isolate people, but put people together.

As for labeling people with diseases and pointing fingers playing with words you just write quickly in forum is result of their own stereo type and their narrow mind, the odd thing is they are doing very thing we are doing, but they tend to think they are different, it is sad part of human nature to be self righteous thinking and biased justification to think just them are exempted from the very same action they are conducting too. But it also show how effective is the marketing conducted to brainwash those people who tend to label people with names and diseases without really knowing you.

As you can see, coping mechanisms including denial and rationalization are quite strong. Social isolation and lack of intimate relationships cultivate these traits. The fact that you recognize that pitfall puts you leaps and bounds ahead of the those that try to deny their faults. People will never fix what they do not accept as a problem. The people I know who recognized their shortcomings often go on to do great things, meaningful things. The ones who do not seem to live a rather forgetful existence, contributing nothing to their friends, families, and societies.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2301365]There is a lack of human connection. This hobby is both time consuming and secretive, so the men who partake in this hobby at addict-levels, I would say are more socially isolated then the general male population. This in itself is alarming, because many psychologists already consider loneliness to be a huge health risk for middle-aged men in many Western and East Asian countries: [URL]https://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/2017/03/09/the-biggest-threat-facing-middle-age-men-isn-smoking-obesity-loneliness/k6saC9FnnHQCUbf5mJ8okL/story.html[/URL].

Internet forums and social media allow us to maintain contact with friends and family or form friendships with like-minded strangers on the other side of the world. But the problem is when one withdraws from society, and seeks only to interact in a virtual world because it is "safer". They use internet forums to alleviate their loneliness. They just want to be heard. They struggle to be noticed. So they repeat themselves over and over again.

I am not posting this because I am deliberately trying to attack anyone. I just hope the ones that need help get help. I have admitted to being slightly socially awkward in the past. And sometimes I feel disconnected and drifting. I have let friendships lapse. Sometimes checking my phone and then feeling like a loser because I only have work related messages or messages from another monger. I mean I am not some 20 year old Instagram model that can post photos and get socially validated with thousands of likes in a matter of minutes.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Takedown;2301367]Keep working at it. Stress and anger is a disease.[/QUOTE]Yes, I'm sure you know. Now monger on people! It's only a "psychological illness" if you let other people with their own agendas, like the feminists, define and shape the nature of the conversation.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2301361]Well that person is filled with anger and hate and pointing fingers without able to see himself. It is himself and not themselves because he has two accounts with two handle name. It got to be taken down.[/QUOTE]Cane and Mr Ho. There is a person posting in various threads who has maybe eight handles. I try not to be conned into replying to any of them.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2301535]Cane and Mr Ho. There is a person posting in various threads who has maybe eight handles. I try not to be conned into replying to any of them.[/QUOTE]Optimist,

Because I actually care about your opinion on matters, the poster they refer to is not me.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2301535]Cane and Mr Ho. There is a person posting in various threads who has maybe eight handles. I try not to be conned into replying to any of them.[/QUOTE]Yes, thank you, I wrote that before, but got filtered out. Yes, I noticed who that is and he is keep on writing to himself between that different handle names sometimes praising his own posts using sir etc. And sometimes trying to cause arguments in forum mainly by pointing finger. I do not know why that make such person happy doing that on internet forum, I mean how low and sad is making few handle names and talking to himself?

I like writing here to discuss what I cannot discuss in my private life, which is mongering and behind the scene of mongering world, but it is sad and so low to realize some people use few handle names and writing to himself just to cause arguments.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2301134] . . . I drove for 4 hours tonight, and fell asleep behind the wheel over 30 times times going at 125 km / h. In a world of free will I would have been clean dead by now. . . . [/QUOTE][QUOTE=Neurosynth;2301318]If you want to drive off the edge of a cliff alone, I suppose that's your choice.

But you have no right to endanger the lives of other drivers like that.

Next time pull off into an Aral or the like. Sleep for a couple hours.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Pistons;2301339]By the time I reached my gate at Vienna airport, boarding was about to finish, and I had ten minutes left till gate closed. I did manage to squeeze in a ten minute nap with 180 km left to go. But I am a pretty skilled driver, even on the subconscious level. Then again, I am sure that in twenty years from now, driving a car will probably become illegal.[/QUOTE]So because you are running late you have a right to risk MY life? Driving "subconscious (ly)?

I can't believe you are trying to justify this.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2301365]There is a lack of human connection. This hobby is both time consuming and secretive, so the men who partake in this hobby at addict-levels, I would say are more socially isolated then the general male population. This in itself is alarming, because many psychologists already consider loneliness to be a huge health risk for middle-aged men in many Western and East Asian countries: [URL]https://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/2017/03/09/the-biggest-threat-facing-middle-age-men-isn-smoking-obesity-loneliness/k6saC9FnnHQCUbf5mJ8okL/story.html[/URL].

Internet forums and social media allow us to maintain contact with friends and family or form friendships with like-minded strangers on the other side of the world. But the problem is when one withdraws from society, and seeks only to interact in a virtual world because it is "safer". They use internet forums to alleviate their loneliness. They just want to be heard. They struggle to be noticed. So they repeat themselves over and over again.

I am not posting this because I am deliberately trying to attack anyone. I just hope the ones that need help get help. I have admitted to being slightly socially awkward in the past. And sometimes I feel disconnected and drifting. I have let friendships lapse. Sometimes checking my phone and then feeling like a loser because I only have work related messages or messages from another monger. I mean I am not some 20 year old Instagram model that can post photos and get socially validated with thousands of likes in a matter of minutes.[/QUOTE]This is something I'm wrestling with at the moment too. I've been a lot of beautiful women, but I think the main danger with this hobby that I hadn't realized is not that it threatens your health (with STIs) or morals -- but it's jeopardized my human development. I've had a lot of superficial relationships, nothing unpleasant, but there are days I feel jealous of friends and acquaintances who have been with fewer, less attractive women, but have developed that deep bond that takes years to mature.

Meanwhile, I've cavorted with SPs, but as you note, the hobby is time-consuming and secretive, so it's hard to develop that connection with even other people who you don't want to have sex with.

Thank you for posting this.

Al-salaam aleikum Sayyid Pistons.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2301385]
The escapism related to travelling, is also helping the brain become more creative:

[URL]https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/03/for-a-more-creative-brain-travel/388135/[/URL]

I suppose however that going back to the same destinations over and over, can be repetitive. And in that sense, it is easy to fall back on negativity. I like to think of this as being isolated as opposed to exploration. But how do we define mongering as explorations? Is new girls, or new lineups the same as exploration? Or how about a new club? Is finding a non Romanian girl enough? How about an Italian, or a Spanish? (Pun intended). Or does a monger need to travel to a new continent?
[/QUOTE]Now you're talking! Mr Cane knows about the benefits of continent-hopping. For my part I have effectively been in exile from Germany since the 2017 Anti-Prostitution Laws. I feel exactly like Stefan Zweig but with less Jewish stuff and more hookers. But maybe the kick in the seat of the pants that Chancellor Merkel gave me was just what I needed to get out and feed my [I]Wanderlust[/I]. You too, you are not too late. To give you some motivation, see the attached image. (By the way, can I take a poll on whether they are real or silicone? She swore she was all-natural and they felt real, but don't let that sway your opinion if you hate my guts.).

I'm not sure who first made the point -- was it McAdonis or SockPuppetUpHosAss? -- but jet-powered mongering really broadens the mind and widens a man's social contacts to other cultures. As a hobby it sure beats trainspotting and baseball cards! If we picture the world as a collection of closed-minded tribes, what great forces break down the barriers between those tribes? (1) Trade / money (2) Sex (3) [CARLSAGANVOICE] Man's indomitable restlessness and will to explore [/CARLSAGANVOICE]. Sex alone causes us guys to overcome our prejudices and have interactions with women that we otherwise would have dismissed as too vapid to deal with. Conversely money causes beautiful women to talk to men that [I]they[/I] would never have considered, leading them to learn and change their minds in many cases. But without sex and money, we would all stay in our comfort zones: the guys stuck in sweaty Star Trek conventions and the girls in beads and bracelets festivals. In fact that probably describes a lot of American small towns, each side going mad on opioids while vaguely feeling they are lacking something in their lives.

P.S. It's not called escapism if you actually escape. Free your dick and your mind will follow.

[QUOTE=Jmioffe;2301660]This is something I'm wrestling with at the moment too. I've been a lot of beautiful women, but I think the main danger with this hobby that I hadn't realized is not that it threatens your health (with STIs) or morals -- but it's jeopardized my human development. I've had a lot of superficial relationships, nothing unpleasant, but there are days I feel jealous of friends and acquaintances who have been with fewer, less attractive women, but have developed that deep bond that takes years to mature.

Meanwhile, I've cavorted with SPs, but as you note, the hobby is time-consuming and secretive, so it's hard to develop that connection with even other people who you don't want to have sex with.

Thank you for posting this.[/QUOTE]I think one can develop as human without human connection to woman you have sex with.

For instance, you have human connection with your mother perhaps, or maybe sister or aunt or your female good friends or females colleague that you often dine / take a drink with etc. , and you do not have sex with these people, yet they inspire you to develop as human and take your point of views on life to different level.

So if you have that human connection or development part with friends, there is not need to crave that with women you have sex with.

Some men become different after they have sex with women, but for me, once I have sex with them, it is beginning of the end, I tend to prefer to have sex with people who are just beautiful looking and young. And bottom line of this is described by one quote mentioned by Karl Lagerfeld, "I do not like to have sex with people I love".

However, I understand you about nice breakfast in nice cafe morning after you have sex with the person you had sex with, beautiful trip together to beautiful destination you both never been before and so on, you know sharing the beautiful moment of life, it is very beautiful personality thing and each human has somewhere inside, but I used to do that in my university days, maybe I was lucky and for me that was so beautiful, nice and memorable and I appreciate those beautiful girls gave me such a good memories, but that now become burden, I think as years went by got into my 30's, I became more harden as I was hard before, but that intensify, so I prefer to have sex with just beautiful girls that I can change.

I had rational personality and for me as I entered my 30's and this began since I was about around 26 or 28 ish, I tend to become more rational and began to think, I should take the best part of whole package and keep on fucking young beautiful girls I can change as I wish to. It was big paradigm shift for me. All this began when mongering industry begin providing me normal beautiful university girl who just began in industry, models who some of them even made it to tv screen and famous magazines, porn stars like maria ozawa and rola takizawa etc. I did thing not all men can do, and that is why I begin to shift this way. I never felt jealous with any men who have sex with lower looking quality women because that is something I do not want to do the most. I like fucking young beautiful girls that most men jerk off to on computer screen because I only get to live once, so I do not want to be a masturbation type of guys, which are most guys.

I was a monger, I am a monger and I will always be a monger till the day I die as long as the industry keep on providing me with top level girls which they began to do in this recent 10 years. With opposition attempt, with its up and down, still the prostitution industry is at its best in history in this recent 10 years, I hope it remain that way and thanks to aviation industry that when it is down here at my home city, I fly to else where. Plus I traveled quite extensively since young age and each city I visit since I am 17 or 18, I make sure I fuck the hottest girl in town no matter what, this is important thing for me even when I am travelling for cultural reason because I believe fucking among the most beautiful girl from the travel destination is the essential part of knowing their culture.

In closing, fucking beautiful women helps a lot to develop you as human, but human connection with friends, animals, natures, travel, with different cultures, books, internet forum like this, talking to random strangers that you only see once in your life, sky line you see from airplane you are travelling etc etc also help you a lot to develop as human. This is my stance in life. Oh! Also the fight to, when I am attack, I fight, I always fight and it help me to develop as human too, it is in our blood as human to fight against attackers.

Well, I started off going to all sorts of places in east and south east Asia, before feeling Europe was more convenient due to shorter travelling distance. And I can surely attest to the notion that mongering in all sorts of cultures helps fight prejudices against people from these nations. Also as opposed idea on wg's in south east Asia, they are as normal as any other girl or woman from lets say Romania. I know this since I hit up on several normal girls at the university and in shopping malls too in three different Asian countries. And they were exactly like the WG's. Well except also much easier to get uncapped. And the normal girls were always soaking wet. But that is where the difference stopped.

But I also notice how mongering cause protective racism among the locals. You see it with the local male populace in Asia. You see it with Romanian males across Europe. And you see it with american white males when a non white male gets a white girlfriend. This is basically an unstoppable force of globalism. It is not limited at mongering, but has equally much to do with girlfriend / boyfriends. And the only way to not getting dragged into depression, hatred and racism, is to fuck your way out of it by having sex with women from other cultures as well. There should perhaps be some sort of international sex exchange organization.

Like that Japanese woman who felt guilt towards the Chinese after all the killings during ww2, and wanted to sell herself to Chinese males. It was even a diplomatically framed story about it in the newspapers in Asia. Way to make peace!

Jmioffe, thanks for sharing your experience.

Loneliness is a growing epidemic and reportedly affects 1 in 4 people in many countries, so I do not think it should be stigmatized. It should not be something one needs to be defensive about: [URL]https://www.kff.org/report-section/loneliness-and-social-isolation-in-the-united-states-the-united-kingdom-and-japan-an-international-survey-section-1/[/URL].

You write that it "jeopardized your human development" and that you find it hard to "develop a connection" with people. Why do you feel this? Would you say it is because you lack the social skills? Or maybe you feel you have the social skills to develop a connection, but you are too busy to "nurture" that connection over a longer period of time? For instance, you might meet some guy at the pub (not sexual of course) and bond the entire night over beers, but if you never follow up on that friendship or check in once a while, then that connection eventually fades. Life is busy. There are too many distractionsnevermind a time-consuming hobby like mongering. Let me know, if I am way off track.

I can be my most worst critic, but I would rate my social skills as 5-6 on a 10-point scale. Amongst other HARDCORE mongers, I am probably 8-9 on a 10-point scale. I am sorry to say, we are not the most socialized group. It is noticeable in conversations within five minutes of meeting someone and sometimes even reading posts. I would liken it to other skills. Some people just haven't had the repetitions or life experience of drinking beers and relating to another human face-to-face, so at best it is awkward, at worse they are annoying. Others you meet and they are just more likable and pleasant to speak with. They are engaging. They have a way of making you feel comfortable (and they can sense when you are uncomfortable and steer the conversation back). They listen to you and at least appear to value what you have to say. They are able to connect and relate to people. Often times, I observe that these people are better storytellers. Why? Because they have rehearsed the story many times, because they are extroverts and they socialize a lot more. They speak about their emotions. Some of their stories show vulnerability (coincidentally a tactic that WGs use to build closeness). They speak about fears and insecurities. Their emotional vocabulary is even different and more colorful I. E. "I felt devastated". They are not bitter at the world. They are not incessant complainers. They do not dominate the conversation and there is no conversational narcissism.

Having a lack of social skills is nothing to be ashamed of. You cannot change your past. The important thing is to strive to improve. We stereotype that poor social skills is always the result of some loser kid that got bullied causing him to withdraw from all social activities and thereby stunting his "human development". But this article lists many other reasons: (1) being sick and bedridden as a child, (2) immigrating as a child, (3) being sheltered as a child, and (4) even cultural reasons such as is the case when Indian and Asian parents emphasize academics over socializing: [URL]https://www.succeedsocially.com/relatedfactors[/URL].

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2301640]So because you are running late you have a right to risk MY life? Driving "subconscious (ly)?

I can't believe you are trying to justify this.[/QUOTE]Especially if it comes to your life. LOL.

Unless you live on the edge, you are taking up too much space!

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2301806]Loneliness is a growing epidemic and reportedly affects 1 in 4 people in many countries, so I do not think it should be stigmatized. It should not be something one needs to be defensive about: [URL]https://www.kff.org/report-section/loneliness-and-social-isolation-in-the-united-states-the-united-kingdom-and-japan-an-international-survey-section-1/[/URL].[/QUOTE]True. But as far as I am aware, this loneliness epidemic is not related to the channels of online communication. They are secondary. But more to the technologies themselves. Which are the primary part. Such as a smartphone. An xbox. A computer. Or some fancy new toy you can play with alone. It is not like it was when I was young and all I spent my time on was playing ball sports like football and some basket. Or other games with 5-10 friends. I have seen this shift away from sports with friends towards technology related stuff one step at a time since test playing football for a top team, to irc after school, onwards to friends doing professional pc gaming, tons of friends playing mmos while at university etc etc. In a way, girl-guy relationships seems to just be an offshoot. But nowadays tinder dating is as normal as it can be. While 10 years ago, online dating was as frowned upon as p6. And you'd better hide it if you ever tried it!

Edit again: I believe there is a layer of sensationalism to these forum posts here. I certainly am guilty of this, and I feel others are too. Where I come from, we don say we like something. We either love it or hate it. Romanians do some of the same. With new media, this is getting more and more normal all over the world too. Either you give it a thumbs up, or a thumbs down. Love it or hate it. Nothing in between! So narcissistic traits gets apparingly overblown towards the uninitiated reader. Different local cultures can be like night and day in regards to this, and it is very hard to spot on an internet forum. These are things you are only able to spot when meeting several people from the same area. The reality is always grey.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2301806]Jmioffe, thanks for sharing your experience.

Loneliness is a growing epidemic and reportedly affects 1 in 4 people in many countries, so I do not think it should be stigmatized. It should not be something one needs to be defensive about: [URL]https://www.kff.org/report-section/loneliness-and-social-isolation-in-the-united-states-the-united-kingdom-and-japan-an-international-survey-section-1/[/URL].

You write that it "jeopardized your human development" and that you find it hard to "develop a connection" with people. Why do you feel this? Would you say it is because you lack the social skills? Or maybe you feel you have the social skills to develop a connection, but you are too busy to "nurture" that connection over a longer period of time? For instance, you might meet some guy at the pub (not sexual of course) and bond the entire night over beers, but if you never follow up on that friendship or check in once a while, then that connection eventually fades. Life is busy. There are too many distractionsnevermind a time-consuming hobby like mongering. Let me know, if I am way off track..[/QUOTE]I think it is too stereo type man, social skill is something you born with, you cannot practice that if you born mentally weak. Also social skill is not about get people to like you, that is called sucking up and getting people to like you is so easy as long as you are presentable, well mannered, well dressed and let others hear what they want to hear from your mouth and being educated helps because oddly people like brand of certain education.

I never got why people like brands of education because that is stereo type too. I have good degree, but only thing I got out of my schools and univerisities (went to 2) people I met, rest are not even worth branding beside names people like and that come from stereotypical social marketing conducted on masses by society. Well I guess they need to put some kind of order in society, so such marketing that has been conducted for centuries make sense. But one get tired of playing such roll sometimes, and if you call playing such roll as expected by society is social skill, I do not think that is it.

Social skill to me is the ability to live the life style you want to live in this stereo typical world that is programmed to take your freedom to enjoy life. For example; Even for mongering, this is result of social skill because I wanted fuck many young beautiful girls beyond one can imagine, but society prohibit to do that, so one has to find out what is the counter solution to this? So I had to go out there to find out what is the best set up that exist in this society for me without people noticing and I found my set up here back home to enjoy beautiful Eurasian girls and Eurasian av stars and some famous models before they become famous that required a lot of research and getting people who has access to that level of girls to trust me because it is sellers market for such level of girls here. And for international young beauties, I found out that the set up in far land of Germany is best set up that may exist in this society we live in, so I had to fly all the way there and found out if that is true and it was for my international sector.

So this is just one example related to our hobby, but doing what society tell you to do require zero social skill, it is out there like a text book or manual book. Where as going outside that boring boxed way of life and enjoy life more without people noticing require more social skill to do that because you are out side the box and got to find your own way in society and still you manage to enjoy life more without damaging your reputation.

The thing about sex is the inherent part it forms of how we came to exist in the first place and urge to procreate that humping simulates. It is inherently social, just as our mothers, aunts, sisters, daughters and female friends form a tapestry of sex free emotional bonds. Sometimes this group is more like a debating club meets speakers corner. A few things to remember. Our hobby is considered morally deviant by many and is statistically deviant as a fact relative to the general population sexual experiences. Secondly FKK's are fun but like ice cream. Tasty, but you cannot live on the stuff. Thirdly, good mental health is the building block of life. Psychology and all its big words and Latin prefixes like hyper, hypo and <insert -oid or <insert -ism like economics. A big messy social space they try to pretend is scientific by formulas like g=j where g is good and j is justice, a game of words without end or agreed meanings. There is some truth to the assertion that psychology is not a discipline at all. Attributing big words and pseudo scientific labels to others has many risks including our observations not having enough data or the data nor fitting any curve.

Having insight that we are all screwed up and suffer from a thing called the human condition of contradictions (horny, attention seeking, addiction, compassionate, selfish etc, etc all mixed up and in constantly shifting quantities) is needed to advance spiritually. In science it is called falsification. Without it we would have square wheels and a flat earth. But in human behavioral land, perception of fault and wanting to adapt and change is about as far as you can take things.

And, Takedown, people in glass houses should should not throw stones. Now, more importantly, where are some hotties to be found this spring for some wild times by the poolside?

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2301883]There is some truth to the assertion that psychology is not a discipline at all.[/QUOTE]Wow, a super proof for: "The ultimate thing a person will give up is the suffering on oneself and on one's self-concepts".

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2301883] There is some truth to the assertion that psychology is not a discipline at all. Attributing big words and pseudo scientific labels to others has many risks including our observations not having enough data or the data nor fitting any curve.[/QUOTE]I suppose I should have expanded on the claim I made that defining people by syndromes is a syndrome in and of itself.

I don't think it is by chance that the field of psychology is booming at the same time as neoliberalism is also booming. Basically putting everyone into conditional boxes. The problem is just what the article I posted about travels and creativity points out: Narrow minded people who has not travelled enough, and has lower creativity, also has a tendency to create these stigmatizing boxes way more often than creative people who has traveled more.

This is for example important when it comes to combating racism. Ironically the neoliberalists believe they are anti racists. But this points towards their take on the world actually producing racism. (I hope this one post regarding racism gets through censorship).

Lets just say that the world is never how it seems. Because peoples awareness is always closed off by limiting factors. So the very idea of analyzing a different person is utterly absurd. For example, we had no idea about quantum physics before 100 years ago! And it changes so much of what we thought the world was. Not to mention that they have now measured brain particles all the way up to the 11th dimension! So we are not even close to having figured it all out!

[QUOTE=Pistons;2301993] . . . Not to mention that they have now measured brain particles all the way up to the 11th dimension! So we are not even close to having figured it all out![/QUOTE]You should really stick to things you know something about.

The research you are referring to had nothing to do with "measur (ing) brain particles," whatever that is supposed to mean.

What the research found was that temporary networks are formed among neurons, and those virtual networks have a connectivity topology in 11 dimensions. This in no way implies that neurons occupy 11 physical dimensions. It has nothing to do, for example, with quantum theory or string theory.

Anything reasonable around / between Nautraubling and Heidenheim?

P.S. Been to sharks, world, palace, oase, Globe.

[QUOTE=NickTheG;2301973]Wow, a super proof for: "The ultimate thing a person will give up is the suffering on oneself and on one's self-concepts".[/QUOTE]That quote sound exactly like a modern day marriage LOL. Husband sacrifice his life, especially sex life for one pussy that is depreciating in beauty and youth LOL. And he pays million dollars for that low quality woman of he's LOL.

Well, they also say marriage is end of good life. It is beginning of the end without him realizing it. Some men realize and divorce later which may destroy him financially, some they just suffer without noticing it what is going on due to his boxed thinking that he cannot escape with his brain because his brain is programmed by society and he no longer can think for himself.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2302091]You should really stick to things you know something about.

The research you are referring to had nothing to do with "measur (ing) brain particles," whatever that is supposed to mean.

What the research found was that temporary networks are formed among neurons, and those virtual networks have a connectivity topology in 11 dimensions. This in no way implies that neurons occupy 11 physical dimensions. It has nothing to do, for example, with quantum theory or string theory.[/QUOTE]True, I don't know enough about these things. And it seems to me that neighter does anyone. I have just read some basics about quantum entanglement and what that may mean. Quantum fields etc is probably not the end of it either. And what the heck is dmt and dream state's link to all of this? Not to mention Einstein's mc square is useless. And there is a theory of two different sets of time. It makes me dizzy just to consider these things. All I am saying is that no human being has any clue at all. If you think you do, then you are lying. Maybe you have heard more theories than me on quantum physics, but there are too many open ended theories as far as I can tell. And we are all part of it. Especially our consciousness through measurement.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2301535]Cane and Mr Ho. There is a person posting in various threads who has maybe eight handles. I try not to be conned into replying to any of them.[/QUOTE][NOPARSE]You will see this going on in many Internet forums.

If you want to know what ideas in the world are most interesting ("dangerous") simply observe which ones they attack most angrily. But when the status quo is felt to be precarious, most ideas of any kind will be seen to be dangerous.
[/NOPARSE]

[QUOTE=Pistons;2301817]True. But as far as I am aware, this loneliness epidemic is not related to the channels of online communication.[/QUOTE]Seriously, I do not get where this loneliness and monger is related LOL. Monger is eternally happy people because we got unlimited supply of young beautiful girls. Some people are mentally weak and sick, that is why they feel lonely or whatever.

If you are lonely, go and get your dick sucked by young beautiful girls, and believe me it fix everything, fucking young beautiful girls are the essence, motivation and drive in life for male. If not, go join gym or something and work out, it make you feel so good after work out and you also meet other cool people too.

However, if you are true monger, you are never lonely or feel down because all it take is young beautiful girl to suck you, lick you and fuck her in pussy, mouth or anal to make you feel good. If that does not work for you, I don't know what does or you are not true monger or man.

With in men, there are fuckers and non fuckers, and I am fucker and as long as I fuck young beautiful girls, I am happy camper.

No young beautiful girls to fuck, no life. More I fuck young beautiful girls, more happy I am in life added beautiful memories. This is not all in life, but good sex play big part to happiness and satisfaction in life, if you are masculine person.

So, I'll be making my last pilgrimage for quite a while in mid May. I should have all day of Monday and Tuesday, plus Friday night for mongering pursuits.

I've been to Dietz (interesting, but no urge to repeat particularly), Mainhatten (first FKK, but small) and Sharks (never a bad experience) in the past. I will have a car and rarely drink, so I am good to drive at any hour.

My first inclination is to just hit Sharks hard; like I said, I've never had a bad experience and almost exclusively go for 100 E / 1 HR sessions. Pretty well funded for this trip.

But. It's my last time for a while. Should I make the effort to experience Oase? Hit one of the smaller ones? (Rom, for example, will be handy at one point).

All recommendations gratefully accepted.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2302187]True, I don't know enough about these things. And it seems to me that neighter does anyone. I have just read some basics about quantum entanglement and what that may mean. Quantum fields etc is probably not the end of it either. And what the heck is dmt and dream state's link to all of this? Not to mention Einstein's mc square is useless. And there is a theory of two different sets of time. It makes me dizzy just to consider these things. All I am saying is that no human being has any clue at all. If you think you do, then you are lying. Maybe you have heard more theories than me on quantum physics, but there are too many open ended theories as far as I can tell. And we are all part of it. Especially our consciousness through measurement.[/QUOTE]If person A knows quite a bit about X, and person B knows very little about X, it's not surprising when B thinks he knows as much about X as A does.

And A knows he doesn't.

The only thing to know about quantum mechanics is how little we know and how alien its properly understood implications are to our ape like perceptions. We have barely scratched the surface and can cook with a few bits of it such as chemistry, semi-conductors and few more bits. Entanglement is one of the more interesting as following Bell circa 1977. Recent photon entanglement reveals spooky action at a distance seems to be real and Einstein was wrong on that bit. The consequences of that mean super-luminary transmission of spin state that violates C; or that there is no space to traverse; or perhaps something jumping through a magical portal, or something else where this is not even the right question or we lack the language to even ask the question. Why I mention this is that the brain, like all biochemistry, is a like a super messy spider web of near random filaments, some transient, some changing form and / or function fluidly with a large number of gates that open and close, proteins, ligands, receptors and much, much more complexity that is polynomial. It is fiendishly difficult and tedious science. There are far more than 11 degrees of separation of discrete functions for even simple cells. I think this is what Pistons meant.

Neuronal activity has no known relationship to orthodox quantum mechanics (as a gross statement, true as to chemistry underneath the proteins), and certainly no memory shard held in the 11th dimension (if that even exists) or indeed any other exotic location as far as presently known.

What I crave is mastery of biochemistry to create massively enhanced sensual experiences, anti-aging and creating and maintaining beautiful women who derive great pleasure by sperm activation in their tonsils, especially in the morning after sleep. They actively seek out the nearest member of the male species to satisfy their urges by BJ's. I would add to that wish a means of engineering out the monkey brain that afflicts us all and we are prisoners of that we need to see the shortcomings of and manage this disability.

Hacking DNA is no longer fantasy or the realm of big pharma. We are already at the point roughly of home computers circa 1974 in terms of accessing DNA hacking at home. Primitive but happening. To continue my metaphor of a million chimps typing, ethics be damned, some interesting stuff will emerge from the chaos of millions of hackers doing their thing. 2050 will be be very interesting if we do not kill ourselves with virii in the meantime. Current medicine will look barbaric by then. Rich people really will be able to make being different more than just social posturing. We may be among the last generation of free range humans.

Now, let's get back to pretty and frisky young women frolicking by the pool naked at FKK's this summer that we can ravish for fun and pleasure.

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2302261]The only thing to know about quantum mechanics is how little we know and how alien its properly understood implications are to our ape like perceptions. We have barely scratched the surface and can cook with a few bits of it such as chemistry, semi-conductors and few more bits. Entanglement is one of the more interesting as following Bell circa 1977. Recent photon entanglement reveals spooky action at a distance seems to be real and Einstein was wrong on that bit. The consequences of that mean super-luminary transmission of spin state that violates C; or that there is no space to traverse; or perhaps something jumping through a magical portal, or something else where this is not even the right question or we lack the language to even ask the question. Why I mention this is that the brain, like all biochemistry, is a like a super messy spider web of near random filaments, some transient, some changing form and / or function fluidly with a large number of gates that open and close, proteins, ligands, receptors and much, much more complexity that is polynomial. It is fiendishly difficult and tedious science. There are far more than 11 degrees of separation of discrete functions for even simple cells. I think this is what Pistons meant..[/QUOTE]If one obtain real photo of galaxy, one should often take a look at that photo because compare to galaxy or universe our problem is nothing.

Meanwhile, on this beautiful planet of ours called earth. We can enjoy many thing from natures to cultures to materialism to getting out dick sucked / fucked by many young beautiful girls from all over the world. Isn't it amazing?

Sometimes, on my way back or way to Germany, I look at Siberia, Russia, eastern European nations, Germany etc and I just tell my self, I fucked so many young beautiful girls from these countries below my airplane and they are there somewhere as I look through the air plane window. And since I will not give up being monger, there are girls attending school right now down there in these country, but in few years time when they turn 18 years old, they will appear in German FKK etc to get fucked by me LOL! This is amazing thing to think and feel on airplane as I fly over them making my way to my German FKK paradise listening to paradise city by guns and roses LOL!

Fucking young beautiful girl is only connection I want to have with beautiful girls and when I plug in my penis into their mouth, pussy or anal, I feel the universe LOL! It is the biochemistry going on in my head upon my plug is in LOL!

What a beautiful planet and world we live in and for monger, we made sex life part possible using our own head and own thinking to escape those brainwash conducted on ape human being LOL!

Mongers are the self thinking happy special bleed, mongers are the limited edition prototype ape and not mass production ape.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2302162]That quote sound exactly like a modern day marriage LOL. Husband sacrifice his life, especially sex life for one pussy that is depreciating in beauty and youth LOL. And he pays million dollars for that low quality woman of he's LOL.

Well, they also say marriage is end of good life. It is beginning of the end without him realizing it. Some men realize and divorce later which may destroy him financially, some they just suffer without noticing it what is going on due to his boxed thinking that he cannot escape with his brain because his brain is programmed by society and he no longer can think for himself.[/QUOTE]I fully disagree. When I go to a club, even at Globe where some locals say some girls have princess attitude, but I m used to have the prettiest and the superstars and when they know me, they return to me, even when I'm nothing for money in their business. I can claim I had nearly all the beauties I saw in FKK land, but if it was possible, but I couldn't do anything to help her, I would prefer to live only with one angel and become very old with her. She was not my first girlfriend, she had a previous life before we met, she was a mum, when we met she told me: I have something to tell You, I know You will stop with me, but I need to tell you I don't like to have sex from my previous life, and my previous told me the same 7 years ago. Even I already heard this, but after few days we started she really killed me. When I returned home, tears were crying, but she was such a angel, pretty like a angel, when FKK girls see her still on my phone, more than 8 years after the end of the world, they see her beauty. On next day, I sent her I wanted to keep on with her, I was very patient, but she was a so passionate kisser, always smiling, always kissing, it took months, starting caressing, very complicated about DATY because she thought it was dirty as she was told before, but with manners, she did let me try after about 3 months, I told her how she taste great for my pleasure, trying again when her period, and after about 5 months, once she told me: You come with me. Then never heard about headache nor period pain, but it became daily pleasure. For second time, when for first I re built a woman, but with her I built a angel woman for me. She was already a angel when we met. Women are wonderful and WGs feel how I love women. I remember a little German discovering something at Palace and she returned for feeling again the same. I enjoy when some girls return saying: I would like again. Most of women are not so interested by sex, but most run for pleasure.

Love women and they will love You.

[QUOTE=LaBambaBoy;2302232]So, I'll be making my last pilgrimage for quite a while in mid May. I should have all day of Monday and Tuesday, plus Friday night for mongering pursuits.

I've been to Dietz (interesting, but no urge to repeat particularly), Mainhatten (first FKK, but small) and Sharks (never a bad experience) in the past. I will have a car and rarely drink, so I am good to drive at any hour.

My first inclination is to just hit Sharks hard; like I said, I've never had a bad experience and almost exclusively go for 100 E / 1 HR sessions. Pretty well funded for this trip.

But. It's my last time for a while. Should I make the effort to experience Oase? Hit one of the smaller ones? (Rom, for example, will be handy at one point).

All recommendations gratefully accepted.[/QUOTE]No clear answer. With 100 E /60 you will do fine just anywhere in Frankfurt. If Sharks worked best for you, then that is where you should start. Should you try out Oase or anywhere else? It's all up to you. It's not clear what you are searching for. If "big" is it, then Oase is the only alternative. If you are looking for something else, then try something else. Take a chance and be adventureous. If an alternative does not work, then go back to Sharks. If nice weather and looking for a garden, then Oase and World are nice alternatives to Sharks. Cease the opportunity. Obviously; Monday and Tuesday will be more quieter than Friday (smaller lineups).

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2302250]If person A knows quite a bit about X, and person B knows very little about X, it's not surprising when B thinks he knows as much about X as A does.

And A knows he doesn't.[/QUOTE]So, basically you regarding all the other topics around here which you comment on. Unless you want to elaborate, you don't know more than anyone else. A google search would give you the information to the 11 dimensional brain math equation I jumped the gun on.

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2302261] 2050 will be be very interesting if we do not kill ourselves with virii in the meantime. Current medicine will look barbaric by then. [/QUOTE]Well, according to some, nanorobots will be used to boost the brain, and help it access the internet. So we can live in a fully submersive VR world by then. I just wonder if it is possible to recreated all the senses in VR. If so, we can just make our own harem in our own mini matrix FKK long before 2050, with genetically boosted cocks and fully loaded balls. Even small dicked people will be able to experience how it is to be hung like a horse. Either way, there are predictions of massive orgies happening in cyberspace already in about 15-20 years. When the software is good enough, and the first few neural lace chips will hook us up. And maybe even before then too depending on how many bottlenecks there are in our brain. I think it is a given that we will get there given our ability to set up AI to solve problems. Especially when they start using quantum computers for it.

Medicine at 2050 will probably be all about the power of quantum computers also.

I do think there are several dimentional vectors like you said. Probably at least 11 as I mentionned yes. And since math came to that figure in our brains, who knows what happens there that we are not aware of. There is a theory that memory is stored at a higher dimention in the brain too, just that we don't know it. So alot regarding the brain is unknown. I like to believe in the fractional universe where individuals are just some form of creative fractions of a conscious universe. Part of the the 60's hippe movement had it right all along. And the hunger for sex, is a hunger of the universe to hook up, and create a new updated fractional through bonding. One thing you missed in your summery regarding quantum physics is the wave / particle difference through meassuring it. It is only a particle is we meassure it. Otherwise it is a possibility of waves. This key ingredient in meassuring the universe for it to exist is what I am talking about. And it lets me think that we are either a) already living in a simulated matrix run by a quantum computer, or b) the universe is conscious, and our mind is hooked up, and all conscious beings are a fraction of it.

Dmt and these psychadelics used together with increased bandwidth through computer brain implants, might help us reach more of an understanding. There is nothing easily explainable about dreaming for example.

I just worry that sex and orgies will be used to lure us into adding chips to our brains, only so that some crazy government start hacking us all, turning us into slaves for some purpose.

Virtue signaling versus knowledge signaling. Both happen so much on the various internet platforms. Which is predominant just depends on the demographic of the platform. There seems to be a lot of virtue signaling on female and liberal dominated sites. Knowledge signaling seems to happen with the more geeky and nerdy groups. Both habits tend to demonstrate lower social value.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2302400]Virtue signaling versus knowledge signaling. Both happen so much on the various internet platforms. Which is predominant just depends on the demographic of the platform. There seems to be a lot of virtue signaling on female and liberal dominated sites. Knowledge signaling seems to happen with the more geeky and nerdy groups. Both habits tend to demonstrate lower social value.[/QUOTE]Good, lets go back to the monkey stage of no virtues, nor knowledge then. And act only by our instincts. So then we certainly must agree on the things I have claimed before here. And keep down our illusion of cognition helping us forward. I believe the word 'tend', is the key to your post there. The only thing to be derived from it at all. Aside from that, we probably cannot escape our monkey greater family instincts. Just perhaps be able to discuss them.

I tried this on the Austria forum, but didn't get any replies. Therefore I try here, hope it is ok.

I am visiting the Graz-area (A) in the start of May. I have visited German FKK's through the years, and my favorites are the big ones. I prefer Sharks in Darmstadt before Artemis in Berlin, and think the small FKK's are a little boring compared to the bigger ones.

I don't know yet if I am flying in to Munchen or Vienna, hiring a car. What would you suggest as the best FKK between Munchen-Vienna-Graz? Open for all suggestions.

[QUOTE=Nr71;2302477]I tried this on the Austria forum, but didn't get any replies. Therefore I try here, hope it is ok.

I am visiting the Graz-area (A) in the start of May. I have visited German FKK's through the years, and my favorites are the big ones. I prefer Sharks in Darmstadt before Artemis in Berlin, and think the small FKK's are a little boring compared to the bigger ones.

I don't know yet if I am flying in to Munchen or Vienna, hiring a car. What would you suggest as the best FKK between Munchen-Vienna-Graz? Open for all suggestions.[/QUOTE]Wellcum close to Italian border is number 1 in Austria now, maybe GT Vienna? After visiting wonderful Vienna.

I hope they are out there mongering and happy somewhere. Place is less without them around.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2302314]I fully disagree. When I go to a club, even at Globe where some locals say some girls have princess attitude, but I m used to have the prettiest and the superstars and when they know me, they return to me, even when I'm nothing for money in their business. I can claim I had nearly all the beauties I saw in FKK land, but if it was possible, but I couldn't do anything to help her, I would prefer to live only with one angel and become very old with her. She was not my first girlfriend, she had a previous life before we met, she was a mum, when we met she told me: I have something to tell You, I know You will stop with me, but I need to tell you I don't like to have sex from my previous life, and my previous told me the same 7 years ago. Even I already heard this, but after few days we started she really killed me. When I returned home, tears were crying, but she was such a angel, pretty like a angel, when FKK girls see her still on my phone, more than 8 years after the end of the world, they see her beauty. .[/QUOTE]Siri, I can become friend with benefit with FKK women, they cut me better service, I go with them when I am in German FKK over the years and as I wrote before when they are gone, some of them are still in my memories because they gave me such a good sexual memories.

However, it is hard for my rational ass to feel or have mindset like you toward women I meet in German FKK simply because it is brothel.

I know some of them are nice hearted and I respect them for their strength to be so nice like them in not so nice situation of their life. But I cannot have more feeling than appreciation and some kind of friendship with benefit with these girls I meet in German FKK because again German FKK is brothel.

Also bottom line is that I only love women for how they look and I want to fuck them, but I cannot love them after youth and beauty is gone like many guys do during marriage. The reason I love mongering so much is because I can have first night of honeymoon sex with many young beautiful girls different ones every year, I love mongering, but not girls in it. I like them though and some of them are still in my memories because they gave me good memories that I can never forget, and oh they still give me boner even though they are gone and I only got their photo to jerk off too now LOL LOL LOL!

[QUOTE=Nr71;2302477]I tried this on the Austria forum, but didn't get any replies. Therefore I try here, hope it is ok.

I am visiting the Graz-area (A) in the start of May. I have visited German FKK's through the years, and my favorites are the big ones. I prefer Sharks in Darmstadt before Artemis in Berlin, and think the small FKK's are a little boring compared to the bigger ones.

I don't know yet if I am flying in to Munchen or Vienna, hiring a car. What would you suggest as the best FKK between Munchen-Vienna-Graz? Open for all suggestions.[/QUOTE]A few things I know. Munich sucks. Graz sucks. Maxim and Goldentime Vienna are both supposed to be good.

If you MUST do Graz as I did (I mean you can't skip a perfectly good day of fucking just because the venue sucks) then Claudius Caesar will do in a pinch. The bar and rooms are great but the girls tend more towards 4-6 range. See my report in recent pages in the Graz forum. I found a 6. 5 that gave me a great time. So it is possible.

[QUOTE=Shark16;2302316]No clear answer. With 100 E /60 you will do fine just anywhere in Frankfurt. If Sharks worked best for you, then that is where you should start. Should you try out Oase or anywhere else? It's all up to you. It's not clear what you are searching for. If "big" is it, then Oase is the only alternative. If you are looking for something else, then try something else. Take a chance and be adventureous. If an alternative does not work, then go back to Sharks. If nice weather and looking for a garden, then Oase and World are nice alternatives to Sharks. Cease the opportunity. Obviously; Monday and Tuesday will be more quieter than Friday (smaller lineups).[/QUOTE]Well, I've done Dietz, had my bargain price AO experience, and all apologies to the daycare, I don't need to do it again.

Mainhatten was fine, but smallish, so no need to do that again.

Sharks is going to get at least one night, if not all 3. But Mon / Tuesday I have all day, so that might be a lot. Plus, in my experience, when you spend consecutive full days at one place, you get both better deals with some of the girls, but also get nagged hard by others. So maybe Monday and Friday for Sharks.

The RLD is a blast, but can be hit or miss, can take a lot of time, is best in the day, and does not have parking. I might take a tour over to the Mainz RLD just for flavor though.

Oase is attractive because it is another big optics-heavy situation like Sharks, which I know I like. Palace is also interesting in a similar vein. Since I have a car, Oase is easy.

Then there are some smaller ones like Finca Erotica, Atlanta, Rom that are interesting because of the value proposition. Do I take a flyer?

So many Ro, so little time.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2301817]True. But as far as I am aware, this loneliness epidemic is not related to the channels of online communication. They are secondary. But more to the technologies themselves. Which are the primary part. Such as a smartphone. An xbox. A computer. Or some fancy new toy you can play with alone. It is not like it was when I was young and all I spent my time on was playing ball sports like football and some basket. Or other games with 5-10 friends. I have seen this shift away from sports with friends towards technology related stuff one step at a time.[/QUOTE]Internet and video games have slowly been replacing face-to-face human interactions. I would say that ages of 16-25 are prime years for learning social skills. These are the years when one starts to gain independence from parents and when one has the most free time to socialize.

Second, I would say all humans need some form of social interaction, although it varies from person to person. Naturally introverted or ostracized people will spend more time alone at home. Even these people have a need to interact with humans, so internet forums, SMS, and video games meet that need, but just BARELY. Thus technology provides them just enough social interaction, so they are not motivated to meet real friends at the pub. The technology then becomes their "safe" place and comfort zone. And soon they find themselves using their preferred choice of technology every waking minute that they are not at work or school. This stunts social development.

Let's take an average 60 year old person, born in 1959. I would say that this 60 year old had better social skills in 1979 than the average 20 year old today. And also better social skills in 1999 than the average 40 year old today. Why? Because when the 60 year old was in his prime years for socializing, the only distraction from loneliness and boredom was TV. The internet was in its infancy, so he had to actually go out and meet people face-to-face to meet his needs (Maslow's love and belonging).

For the purposes of developing social skills, face-to-face is the best way to communicate. Followed by phone. Then lastly textual messages. With technology, the first two happen in real-time. The persons involved in the conversation need to be able to respond immediately. This sharpens the mind like two people doing improv. It sharpens the ability for one to think on their feet. Text messaging or formulating internet posts and emails, allows the person to think and carefully and methodically craft a response. Some people are just "gifted" with written and verbal communication, but for everyone it can be improved with practice. Finally, there is a difference between face-to-face and phone conversation. The former involves facial expressions and body languages.

When someone has locked himself in dark rooms staring at screens most of his adult life, they will be horrible at reading body language and facial expressions. They talk when they should be listening. They joke when they should not. They force a joke, even after it falls flat. When their audience is visibly uncomfortable, they do not recognize it, and stay on the same subject. They are not cognizant of the audience and do not know social cues. Most people will find this type of person incredibly annoying--exception being WGs and / or people that are incentivized by money. I work in a STEM field, so I have met quite a few geeks who do not socialize in the real world. They are ashamed. Nobody wants to admit that they don't really have any friends. Several times it became incredibly awkward because they started fabricating stories about having imaginary friends or a model GF. I just pretended to believe them and quickly changed the subject. Think the scene in 40 year old virgin when Steve Carell's character is obviously lying. [URL]https://youtu.be/Vn3IRHhPXMo[/URL].

When someone has spent thousands of hours socializing face-to-face, it is quite evident. For instance, their stories are often better, because unlike the socially isolated guy, they actually have people to talk to and listen to them. They practice their stories to different audiences. They read the audience's facial expressions and they can gauge the audience's emotionally response and fine tune and improve their story. The socially isolated storyteller has no idea that his audience has stopped listening and his stories never improve. This is a link to a video of a celebrity telling a story on a talk show: [URL]https://youtu.be/U3zCAPf9nVI[/URL] Notice the facial expressions, hand gestures, the changing tones in his voice for emphasis, pausing for effect, touching and playfully interacting with his audience. And then there is witty banter from the fat bald guy. Skills like this cannot be sharpened by text messaging and internet forums.

This post has gotten long. My social skills (or possibly lack thereof) tell me that most people probably have stopped reading. And I suspect, even before that, many people probably scrolled past as soon as they saw "McAdonis", because they don't want to read my psycho-babble. That's fine. I don't want to be a serial poster, because that would be, well, annoying

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2302250]If person A knows quite a bit about X, and person B knows very little about X, it's not surprising when B thinks he knows as much about X as A does.

And A knows he doesn't.[/QUOTE]It happens a lot. Just check out facebook discussions. You often see some geek talking about theories and the Cosmos like he has a PhD on the subject; but if you click on his profile, you see that he is some random loser working a dead end sales and marketing job with no discernible skills. Knowledge signaling when one has minimum familiarity but certainly not mastery of the subject matter, it's a character flaw of low value people.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2302565]Internet and video games have slowly been replacing face-to-face human interactions. I would say that ages of 16-25 are prime years for learning social skills. These are the years when one starts to gain independence from parents and when one has the most free time to socialize.

Second, I would say all humans need some form of social interaction, although it varies from person to person. Naturally introverted or ostracized people will spend more time alone at home. Even these people have a need to interact with humans, so internet forums, SMS, and video games meet that need, but just BARELY. Thus technology provides them just enough social interaction, so they are not motivated to meet real friends at the pub. The technology then becomes their "safe" place and comfort zone. And soon they find themselves using their preferred choice of technology every waking minute that they are not at work or school. This stunts social development.[/QUOTE]Man, if you can think so deep and long like this on the subject of social skill, you got some social skill knowledge LOL.

Whats up with this sex forum and this social skill and human connection shit? You monger for that? It is each their own, but if so that is to my surprise because I monger for sex and sex only, I want to fuck many beautiful girls all over world including my own nations Eurasian, that is why I monger.

Anyway, there is no social skill I know of that enable mongers to talk about this in most of mongers private life, so one can talk about mongering on sex forum like this one with anonymity, so technology allowed us human, in this case monger to discuss what we cannot talk about in open space in close space on internet like this sex forum is dedicated for mostly monger. Therefore, technology is not bad thing.

I am in office now, and when I go for lunch in about one hour time and if some colleague may mention about let say maria ozawa or rola takizawa being hot, I must go along with them and just say something like yeah, they are hot girls, but I cannot say I fucked them before, then somehow I will be talked about and criticized, so the social skill is to just lie and hide, I cannot tell them about my mongering side. But see this is odd thing, people watch, talk about porn star being hot etc. But if you actually fucked them, it is not wise to just say, I fucked them for 150000 yen (about 1500 USD) or 50000 yen (500 USD), then suddenly I will be criticized, so social skill is to just lie and say something that fit the moment, it is ape like human behavior on their side because they jerk off to porn stars, but if one fuck them for money it is bad thing to do in society LOL. I mean how hypocrite and ironic is that? It is like this because we all are planted that liberal sex and achieving what you want in area of lust is bad thing even it is legal. I would say, social skill in certain case like this very not natural and uncomfortable thing to do where one has to say cliche to fit in to society norm to protect your self and avoid nonsense problems.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2302565]mWhen someone has locked himself in dark rooms staring at screens most of his adult life, they will be horrible at reading body language and facial expressions. They talk when they should be listening. They joke when they should not. They force a joke, even after it falls flat. When their audience is visibly uncomfortable, they do not recognize it, and stay on the same subject. They are not cognizant of the audience and do not know social cues. Most people will find this type of person incredibly annoying
[/QUOTE]Bump.

Key description is that they are not cognizant.

That is the danger of full time mongering. The continuous validation and reinforcement of poor social skills stunts growth. Even if one does not monger year round, hanging on to those moments of happiness from a far away land also perpetuates that arrested development.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2302527]Siri, I can become friend with benefit with FKK women, they cut me better service, I go with them when I am in German FKK over the years and as I wrote before when they are gone, some of them are still in my memories because they gave me such a good sexual memories.

However, it is hard for my rational ass to feel or have mindset like you toward women I meet in German FKK simply because it is brothel.

I know some of them are nice hearted and I respect them for their strength to be so nice like them in not so nice situation of their life. But I cannot have more feeling than appreciation and some kind of friendship with benefit with these girls I meet in German FKK because again German FKK is brothel.

Also bottom line is that I only love women for how they look and I want to fuck them, but I cannot love them after youth and beauty is gone like many guys do during marriage.[/QUOTE]You don't seem to love women. With my mother, I could only love women and elegance.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2302552]A few things I know. Munich sucks. Graz sucks. Maxim and Goldentime Vienna are both supposed to be good.

If you MUST do Graz as I did (I mean you can't skip a perfectly good day of fucking just because the venue sucks) then Claudius Caesar will do in a pinch. The bar and rooms are great but the girls tend more towards 4-6 range. See my report in recent pages in the Graz forum. I found a 6. 5 that gave me a great time. So it is possible.[/QUOTE]Thank you for your answer!

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2302565]This is a link to a video of a celebrity telling a story on a talk show: [URL]https://youtu.be/U3zCAPf9nVI[/URL] Notice the facial expressions, hand gestures, the changing tones in his voice for emphasis, pausing for effect, touching and playfully interacting with his audience. And then there is witty banter from the fat bald guy. Skills like this cannot be sharpened by text messaging and internet forums.

This post has gotten long. My social skills (or possibly lack thereof) tell me that most people probably have stopped reading. And I suspect, even before that, many people probably scrolled past as soon as they saw "McAdonis", because they don't want to read my psycho-babble. That's fine. I don't want to be a serial poster, because that would be, well, annoying[/QUOTE]The end was the highlight here actually.

Regarding the celebrity with his story, that is at professional actor level of story telling there. Something they teach in rethorics class even. And it takes a long time to master it. You also won't find many people below the age of 40. Or maybe even below the age of 50 that are as good as he is. I think especially these hand and body gestures is something we can improve on all our lives without fully mastering it. As we grow older, our tunnel vision also expands, so we are able to notice more things going on around us. Getting such crazy stories may be the hardest part though. Maybe he just made up that one too. But since he is such a great actor, it is much harder to spot it, than among the STEM friends who never hit the gym.

Personally I have mainly felt my social skills with girls go up and down dependent on my personal looks and shape. I've had periods where I did tons of sports and hit the gym a lot, and periods with far less where my physique were hurt. The physical effects got probably mirrored in self awareness too. Something girls sense. Pluss girls are as much into looks as we are. So a STEM geek has the odds against him unless he spends time at the gym. I also believe Jordan Peterson has a point when discussing #metoo. Where he states how guys have no chance at noticing all these minor impulses girls give off. Perhaps a main reason for the #metoo stories we get all the time these days, are in fact related to what we are discussing here. Guys spending too much time in isolation behind a computer screen, and not getting that face to face experience. Especially with women.

Secondly, excusing oneself for a tldr post is something I have noticed works well too. It helps other people find empathy. So in a way you are programming other people into not thinking it was too long. And into making excuses for you subconsciously in their minds. I said some of the same thing to a girl recently who responded with 'don't excuse yourself'. Just thought I'd point that out. I believe the term is cognitive programming. Very useful way of thinking of it. For example for use in robotics. Something STEM professionals should take note in. Meaning they need to improve their social skills if they ever want to get good at robotics programming.

Hello all,

As can be seen by my posting frequency, I have been out of Europe for over two years. Because of this, I am completely out of touch with all that is or has happened in FKK land in the last 2 years (not that I was a true expert to start). I have now moved to Germany (near Frankfurt) and am ready to get my feet wet again. The difference this time is that my girlfriend (20 years younger than me) is with me. She and I have done some things in the past that can be categorized as swinging and the nudist / naturalist lifestyle but have never gone to a FKK Club. She is intrigued by the idea and I want to take her to one and share the experience with her. But I want it to be a good experience so that there is a high probability that she will like it and want to explore others with me. So the selection of the first FKK, is an important one. As I try to remember my FKK experiences of the past, I cannot recall seeing a couple at any of the Frankfurt FKKs and think I have only seen a couple once at Magnum up in the NRW area. So this is completely new to me (to us) and would like some advice on both generalities and particulars from members who have more experience than me. As everyone has a different comfort level, it may be best to share our (her) expectations while in a FKK. She would like the ability to be and possibly walk around naked (especially near pool, saunas and outdoor areas); sex with women in the club (both active and watching me) - I know this is lady specific; she would like to possibly have sex with another male guest (no exchange of money) - I know this may not go over well with the ladies in the club so it is not a requirement. So on to my general questions, I will ask the specific questions after we narrow down where we want to go.

Is there a recommended FKK in the Frankfurt area that is more couple friendly than others? Are there specific days that are better?

The same question for Germany as a whole- is there a FKK or Sauna Club that is considered to be the best for couples?

Best wishes,

KY.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2302395]
If so, we can just make our own harem in our own mini matrix FKK long before 2050, with genetically boosted cocks and fully loaded balls. [/QUOTE]And in the real world. DNA hacking li wajhillah (ftw).

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/28/health/woman-pain-anxiety.html[/URL]

The Woman Who Never Felt Pain. Now the eggheads are trying to isolate the gene so they can breed girls optimized for anal sex. But that would probably spoil the fun for half you assfuckers.

Also for acrobatic sex they will take the gene from the movie 'Unbreakable'. And girls who have been bitten by radioactive spiders will be able to fuck you while clinging to the ceiling. In 11 dimensions. Science. It never fails to amaze me what it can achieve when you have taken as much LSD as my friend and futurist Pistons.

[QUOTE=KyDaddy;2302625]Hello all,

As can be seen by my posting frequency, I have been out of Europe for over two years. Because of this, I am completely out of touch with all that is or has happened in FKK land in the last 2 years (not that I was a true expert to start). I have now moved to Germany (near Frankfurt) and am ready to get my feet wet again. The difference this time is that my girlfriend (20 years younger than me) is with me. She and I have done some things in the past that can be categorized as swinging and the nudist / naturalist lifestyle but have never gone to a FKK Club. She is intrigued by the idea and I want to take her to one and share the experience with her. But I want it to be a good experience so that there is a high probability that she will like it and want to explore others with me. So the selection of the first FKK, is an important one. As I try to remember my FKK experiences of the past, I cannot recall seeing a couple at any of the Frankfurt FKKs and think I have only seen a couple once at Magnum up in the NRW area. So this is completely new to me (to us) and would like some advice on both generalities and particulars from members who have more experience than me. As everyone has a different comfort level, it may be best to share our (her) expectations while in a FKK. She would like the ability to be and possibly walk around naked (especially near pool, saunas and outdoor areas); sex with women in the club (both active and watching me) - I know this is lady specific; she would like to possibly have sex with another male guest (no exchange of money) - I know this may not go over well with the ladies in the club so it is not a requirement. So on to my general questions, I will ask the specific questions after we narrow down where we want to go.

Is there a recommended FKK in the Frankfurt area that is more couple friendly than others? Are there specific days that are better?

The same question for Germany as a whole- is there a FKK or Sauna Club that is considered to be the best for couples?

Best wishes,

KY.[/QUOTE]FKK Babylon in Koln is probably your only good FKK choice. In Frankfurt area Oase, Palace and Mainhattan allows couples but your GF can't be naked in public, pretty lame.

For making all your and her wishes come true, have you got a membership in joyclub. De and looked for 5 star rated events listed there?

Also, you may want to explore Cap the'Adge in France.

Good luck.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2302391]So, basically you regarding all the other topics around here which you comment on. Unless you want to elaborate, you don't know more than anyone else. A google search would give you the information to the 11 dimensional brain math equation I jumped the gun on.[/QUOTE]There are things I know about and there are things I don't know about. This is one of the former, and I didn't need Google to respond to your misinterpretation of the research. But for anyone who is still interested (or should I say "if") . . .

" . . . The team used algebraic topology, a branch of mathematics used to describe the properties of objects and spaces regardless of how they change shape.

They found that groups of neurons connect into 'cliques', and that the number of neurons in a clique would lead to its size as a high-dimensional geometric object (a mathematical dimensional concept, not a space-time one). . . . Just to be clear. This isn't how you'd think of spatial dimensions (our Universe has three spatial dimensions plus one time dimension), instead it refers to how the researchers have looked at the neuron cliques to determine how connected they are.

"Networks are often analysed in terms of groups of nodes that are all-to-all connected, known as cliques. The number of neurons in a clique determines its size, or more formally, its dimension," the researchers explained in the paper. ".

[URL]https://www.sciencealert.com/science-discovers-human-brain-works-up-to-11-dimensions[/URL]

And if there is confusion as to the basic notion that 3 dimensional hardware can implement more than 3 dimensions in connectivity...note the diagram labeled "4-bit binary tesseract for finding Hamming distance" at this URL:

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamming_distance[/URL]

All of the nodes in that network have a 4 bit address. Each bit is a dimension with the meaning noted above, i.e. it is 4-dimensional. In this example any node can be reached by any node with a maximum of 4 hops, one for each dimension.

Building up 11 dimensions of connectivity allows a signal to travel from one neuron to another with far fewer hops than if there was only 3 dimensions. Fewer hops is faster, and faster is better.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2302589]Bump.

Key description is that they are not cognizant.

That is the danger of full time mongering. The continuous validation and reinforcement of poor social skills stunts growth. Even if one does not monger year round, hanging on to those moments of happiness from a far away land also perpetuates that arrested development.[/QUOTE]McAdonis I wrote you privately but this is very much like what I meant.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2302600]You don't seem to love women. With my mother, I could only love women and elegance.[/QUOTE]Yes and no. I love women sexually if they are beautiful. Their irrationality thinking, no I do not love and I do not want to spend too much time with them out side bed. Well, I do not know what kind of relationship you had with your mother, but one should not seek more than sex in FKK or any type of brothel.

However, I love the elegance, but I love the elegance in area of clothes, shoes, sport car, house, watch, natures, design in general and also some other things in life, but when it comes to women, I know what you mean by elegance, but that is mostly via marketing conducted by society, so I know it is an illusion, but I do love to fuck that beautiful young elegant girl.

Bottom line is that, FKK is a brothel and how brothel play part in your life is each their own, but to me, I only see brothel as where I fuck, that is it, brothel for me is there to have sex, I do not care to have human connection or communication at brothel, I just go there and fuck, have good memories and leave.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2302573]Whats up with this sex forum and this social skill and human connection shit? You monger for that? It is each their own, but if so that is to my surprise because I monger for sex and sex only,[/QUOTE]Without social skills, one will not be able to connect with other humans. Without the ability to connect to other humans, one will be socially isolated. Social isolation leads to loneliness and depression, which has been shown to impact physical health. One needs to be mentally and physically healthy to function as a human being (I. E. make money, enjoy sex).

[QUOTE]Recent research has shown that people who are lonely and isolated are more likely to have heart disease and stroke, get immune system problems, and may even have a harder time recovering from cancer.

Its also clear that loneliness is closely linked to depression and may lead to an early death.

https://www.webmd.com/balance/news/20180504/loneliness-rivals-obesity-smoking-as-health-risk
[/QUOTE]Nothing wrong with mongering for sex and sex only. I do not believe it is mandatory to seek human connection from WGs. In many cases, it is not advisable. Human connection with normal friends is, however, mandatory. To me, human connection is lacking in many Western countries, and the problem is getting worse with technology-addicted youth.

Japan has some of the longest working hours in the world. If that is the case, that means single Japanese are probably too tired to meet friends at the pub, preferring to go directly home. The easy thing to do, I suppose is to spend all their free time on internet forums or social media. It is, after all, the lazy way to "socialize". Also, my understanding is that there is tremendous pressure for Japanese to conform to society, and lashing out, acting out, and rebelling are not really tolerated like it is in the West. So Japanese need to find a way to "vent" (I. E. "Society is fucked up, why can't it be monger friendly!) I hope Japanese find other outlets to express their emotions. If they keep their emotions bottled up, the rates of youth suicide and hikikomori will continue to be higher than other countries.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2302869]Without social skills, you will not be able to connect with other humans. Without the ability to connect to other humans, you will be socially isolated. Social isolation leads to loneliness and depression, which has been shown to impact physical health. You need to be mentally and physically healthy to function as a human being (I. E. make money, enjoy sex).

Nothing wrong with mongering for sex and sex only. I do not believe it is mandatory to seek human connection from WGs. In many cases, it is not advisable. Human connection with normal friends is, however, mandatory. To me, human connection is lacking in many Western countries, and the problem is getting worse with technology-addicted youth..[/QUOTE]How many accounts do you have? LOL.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2301535]Cane and Mr Ho. There is a person posting in various threads who has maybe eight handles. I try not to be conned into replying to any of them.[/QUOTE]Yes, it is very evident again.

So sad and low, what is the purpose of making few account talking to themselves and contexts are always same, attacking others.

I think some mongers are in dilemma of mongering pointing finger at other mongers without realizing their own action. Even writing here on the forum, they do not see themselves of what they are doing and criticize other for writing when they are actually writing here themselves.

Well they must be such a sad unhappy people.

I always thought mongers are happy people just enjoying life like I am doing, but some clearly seek for different purpose in German FKK or other brothel. I just want to fuck in brothel and that's it.

[QUOTE=LaBambaBoy;2302559]Sharks is going to get at least one night, if not all 3. But Mon / Tuesday I have all day, so that might be a lot. Plus, in my experience, when you spend consecutive full days at one place, you get both better deals with some of the girls, but also get nagged hard by others. So maybe Monday and Friday for Sharks.[/QUOTE]It seems you got most of your "gameplan" prepared already. So Tuesday is the time for you to maybe explore something new?

- Tuesdays are Dessous Tag at World and Atlanta (and possibly also Finca), so "FKK fundamentalists" therefore avoid those clubs on those days. Are you in that category?
- You say Mainhattan is "small"? Too small for you? Atlanta, Rom and Finca are smaller. I find it hard to spend more than 5- 6 hrs there. But maybe you can do two clubs in one day?
- Palace is a night club. You will be wasting your time before 5 pm.
- Oase is the only club with a LU with similar optical quality as Sharks. But with some upselling risks. The smaller clubs you mention have less upselling, but also less choices from an optical pov.
- Sharks is a great choice and possibly the best in the area (can be debated). As you say, there are some clear advantages staying consecutive days in a club you enjoy. But it can also get boring. At the end of the day it is a personal feeling and the decision can wait until you wake up Tuesday morning.

Hope this helps in your decision making.

Enjoy!

[QUOTE=Jmioffe;2302840][QUOTE=Takedown;2302589]Even if one does not monger year round, hanging on to those moments of happiness from a far away land also perpetuates that arrested development.[/QUOTE]
McAdonis I wrote you privately but this is very much like what I meant.[/QUOTE]Never made that connection before. But according to Fig. 12 on this report, "reliving past memories" is reportedly one of the primary coping mechanisms for loneliness, according to surveyed people in USA, UK, Japan: [URL]https://www.kff.org/report-section/loneliness-and-social-isolation-in-the-united-states-the-united-kingdom-and-japan-an-international-survey-section-1/[/URL].

With regards to being socially lazy, this rationale or thought process makes sense to me: "That WG from the last trip gave me such an amazing BJ and in less than a month I will be back in FKK land to see her again, so fuck it, no need to chase this civilian girl".

But does reliving past memories make you socially lazy, when it is three of your male friends asking you to hang out? Are you like: "Nah, man I feel a cold coming on, I don't want stay out late (because I got that FKK trip coming up next week)".

[QUOTE=Pistons;2302610]Regarding the celebrity with his story, that is at professional actor level of story telling there. Something they teach in rethorics class even. And it takes a long time to master it. You also won't find many people below the age of 40. Or maybe even below the age of 50 that are as good as he is. I think especially these hand and body gestures is something we can improve on all our lives without fully mastering it. [/QUOTE]We seem to agree. Face-to-face social skills, like storytelling, is a combination of verbal communication, body language, and giving the appropriate emotional response to your audience (based on verbal and non-verbal feedback from the audience). You seem to be making the point that such skills can be improved with practice. But I agree, like any skill, it is difficult to master.

[QUOTE=Shark16;2302881]It seems you got most of your "gameplan" prepared already. So Tuesday is the time for you to maybe explore something new?

- Tuesdays are Dessous Tag at World and Atlanta (and possibly also Finca), so "FKK fundamentalists" therefore avoid those clubs on those days. Are you in that category?
- You say Mainhattan is "small"? Too small for you? Atlanta, Rom and Finca are smaller. I find it hard to spend more than 5- 6 hrs there. But maybe you can do two clubs in one day?
- Palace is a night club. You will be wasting your time before 5 pm.
- Oase is the only club with a LU with similar optical quality as Sharks. But with some upselling risks. The smaller clubs you mention have less upselling, but also less choices from an optical pov.
- Sharks is a great choice and possibly the best in the area (can be debated). As you say, there are some clear advantages staying consecutive days in a club you enjoy. But it can also get boring. At the end of the day it is a personal feeling and the decision can wait until you wake up Tuesday morning.

Hope this helps in your decision making.

Enjoy![/QUOTE]"Dessous Tag" is lingerie day, correct? That would be fine.

Mainhatten is small in the sense I don't think I could do more than the 5-6 hours you mention. I pick up my car around noon on Monday, so Sharks might be the choice for Monday.

I am wondering about 2 clubs on Tuesday -- maybe a far trip to Finca, then moving to Oase? I feel like I really should see Oase, and I am not bothered by the sharkiness too much.

Good tip regarding Palace being a PM club.

Thanks!

[QUOTE=Gino02;2302798]FKK Babylon in Koln is probably your only good FKK choice. In Frankfurt area Oase, Palace and Mainhattan allows couples but your GF can't be naked in public, pretty lame.

For making all your and her wishes come true, have you got a membership in joyclub. De and looked for 5 star rated events listed there?

Also, you may want to explore Cap the'Adge in France.

Good luck.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the tips. I guess we will have to plan a trip up to Koln soon.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2302845]Yes and no. I love women sexually if they are beautiful. Their irrationality thinking, no I do not love and I do not want to spend too much time with them out side bed. Well, I do not know what kind of relationship you had with your mother, but one should not seek more than sex in FKK or any type of brothel.

However, I love the elegance, but I love the elegance in area of clothes, shoes, sport car, house, watch, natures, design in general and also some other things in life, but when it comes to women, I know what you mean by elegance, but that is mostly via marketing conducted by society, so I know it is an illusion, but I do love to fuck that beautiful young elegant girl.

Bottom line is that, FKK is a brothel and how brothel play part in your life is each their own, but to me, I only see brothel as where I fuck, that is it, brothel for me is there to have sex, I do not care to have human connection or communication at brothel, I just go there and fuck, have good memories and leave.[/QUOTE]Everywhere, even in brothels, you have elegant or not women, by the way they put their head, body, how they walk, how they behave, I met some elegant in FKK land and Romanians are higher than Germans for chic. In brothels, only sex with a piece of meat girl is so boring, fortunately for me when I see how girls react with me, this is usually more interesting, and what is really interesting is to see how they react when we have problems, women reactions, much more interesting than just emptying balls.

Women are much more interesting and clever than men for me, even the most clever are not in brothels, but I enjoy when woman behavior. Sex is not enough pleasure for me. I think girls feel very fast how I love women, so they follow my game and most ask to repeat. I enjoy when they return to me and when some even ask for pleasure, really enjoyable.

I might visit Frankfurt in few week.

As I'm a tourist I have to choose a good week.

Is 16 - 20 April good time?? I'm afraid many girls will leave for Romania for Easter Holiday. What do you think?

Well done Takedown, good call. Sort of.

The continuous validation and reinforcement of advanced social skills such as manipulation or fake empathy one sees in lawyers, politicians, scam artists and others (such as Bernie Made-Off and other corporate crooks) often have a far more dangerous side than an awkward geek, including being superficial. They never offend anyone by saying one thing in public (or keeping quiet) and thinking and doing another and ready to throw others under a bus when they are no longer useful. Elizabeth Holmes of Theranos had great social skills. She scammed the creme-de-creme of silicon valley before it blew up as a fraud. John Law blew up France's economy in the Mississippi bubble of 1720. Or Hitler or any charismatic leader that fell out of favor. The list is endless. The social masters are a needed part of the system for sure. The most socially developed are great at networking that in turn is usually a good predictor of success in career and business. Most leaders in one way or another are sales people that connect others and win them over. More sarcastically, many of those not socially arrested are regularly arrested in real life for crime. What you call success was ascribed to these people who, for a while, were feted as super humans. The carnage of that fetishized social capital is jobs lost, capital and companies destroyed and often lives.

As Alan Turing once said, "Sometimes it is the people no one imagines anything of who do the things that no one can imagine". There is a place for those socially awkward who live in their heads as well. They dream up amazing stuff and have brilliant insights that benefit millions. Some people manage both worlds. But they are very rare.

What we can agree on is that locked away at a computer screen, darkened FKKs and lack of real social interaction is not good for people. I'm wary of putting simplistic labels on people for a given time slot. People are mostly inherently complex and changing significantly over time (we call it moods). We must be especially wary of pseudo science like labels found in psychology that bolsters highly incomplete observations with an undeserved credence. Worse till, it asserts a value by simply using a implicitly pejorative label. As you posit knowledge & virtue signalling is akin to dressing up mutton as lamb indicating low value of the purveyor of that signalling, to which there is admittedly an element of truth.

Now turn that around. Pseudo science like labels of behavior based minimal observation and insight at a snapshot in time that be atypical. The criticism you level at the signalers who lack mastery applies far more to the reductionist behaviour label, as does the attribution of low value. I will go further and venture that using labels and boxes on complex things signals lower intellect, even more so when underwritten by pseudo science official sounding labels to turn a pure opinion into a quasi-fact and justify things like drugging people to death, extreme abuse and lobotomies not that long ago. Chastity belts and attempts to "cure" homosexuality are also recent history of this brigade.

Nobody cares for a fat loser in mom's basement lacking education, hygiene, brains, social skills or lacking any really cool, stand-out positive attribute or expertise. Everyone likes a skilled person who is generous, honest and hard working. Nobody likes a smartass. Some of of the socially skilled are serious smartasses; they are just better a hiding it and manipulating others. Lawyers and politicians come to mind, as do grifters and scam-artists. Charming. And toxic. We should all try to maximse our human capital and help others to do the same.

People in glass houses should not throw stones. A pebble to see if it still bounces is a better and more nuanced approach than declarations.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2302986]Everywhere, even in brothels, you have elegant or not women, by the way they put their head, body, how they walk, how they behave, I met some elegant in FKK land and Romanians are higher than Germans for chic. In brothels, only sex with a piece of meat girl is so boring, fortunately for me when I see how girls react with me, this is usually more interesting, and what is really interesting is to see how they react when we have problems, women reactions, much more interesting than just emptying balls.

Women are much more interesting and clever than men for me, even the most clever are not in brothels, but I enjoy when woman behavior. Sex is not enough pleasure for me. I think girls feel very fast how I love women, so they follow my game and most ask to repeat. I enjoy when they return to me and when some even ask for pleasure, really enjoyable.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I know siri, but for me I go to brothel for sex only and I do not get into illusion that they try to sell. I do agree with you that there are or more like there were some elegant or let say more like really beautiful normal girls walking into FKK main bar for just short period of time to make quick cash, there still are, but it really is rare.

Another part I agree is that empowering women in work place, to my experience, they usually perform much better because they try to prove themselves.

But for me I go to brothel for sex and fun. I do not go to brothel thinking that it is real, brothel and mongering is my hobby, not more. I do love doing it though, it is one of few thing that still get me excited, but not as much since I have been mongering ever since I was 17 or 18, so sex with beauties has been supplied to me throughout my life, so naturally, excitement level is let say little more calmer than before. I still love it and I will always be monger though.

Hail General Maximus, salve et dei te ament. The story so far:

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2303113]many of those not socially arrested are regularly arrested in real life for crime. What you call success was ascribed to these people who, for a while, were feted as super humans. The carnage of that fetishized social capital is jobs lost, capital and companies destroyed and often lives.


[QUOTE=Takedown;2302589]
That is the danger of full time mongering. The continuous validation and reinforcement of poor social skills stunts growth. Even if one does not monger year round, hanging on to those moments of happiness from a far away land also perpetuates that arrested development.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2302565]
When someone has spent thousands of hours socializing face-to-face, it is quite evident. For instance, their stories are often better, because unlike the socially isolated guy, they actually have people to talk to and listen to them. They practice their stories to different audiences. They read the audience's facial expressions and they can gauge the audience's emotionally response and fine tune and improve their story. The socially isolated storyteller has no idea that his audience has stopped listening and his stories never improve. This is a link to a video of a celebrity telling a story on a talk show: [URL]https://youtu.be/U3zCAPf9nVI[/URL] Notice the facial expressions, hand gestures, the changing tones in his voice for emphasis, pausing for effect, touching and playfully interacting with his audience. And then there is witty banter from the fat bald guy. Skills like this cannot be sharpened by text messaging and internet forums.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2301817]I have seen this shift away from sports with friends towards technology related stuff one step at a time since test playing football for a top team, to irc after school, onwards to friends doing professional pc gaming, tons of friends playing mmos while at university etc etc. In a way, girl-guy relationships seems to just be an offshoot.


[QUOTE=McAdonis;2301806]Jmioffe, thanks for sharing your experience.

Loneliness is a growing epidemic and reportedly affects 1 in 4 people in many countries, so I do not think it should be stigmatized. It should not be something one needs to be defensive about: [URL]https://www.kff.org/report-section/loneliness-and-social-isolation-in-the-united-states-the-united-kingdom-and-japan-an-international-survey-section-1/[/URL].

You write that it "jeopardized your human development" and that you find it hard to "develop a connection" with people.

[QUOTE=Jmioffe;2301660]This is something I'm wrestling with at the moment too. I've been a lot of beautiful women, but I think the main danger with this hobby that I hadn't realized is not that it threatens your health (with STIs) or morals -- but it's jeopardized my human development.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2301365]
But the problem is when one withdraws from society, and seeks only to interact in a virtual world because it is "safer". They use internet forums to alleviate their loneliness.
[QUOTE]
In psychology, logorrhea or logorrhoea (from Ancient Greek λόγος logos "word" and ῥέω rheo "to flow") is a communication disorder that causes excessive wordiness and repetitiveness, which can sometimes lead to incoherency. Logorrhea is sometimes classified as a mental illness, though it is more commonly classified as a symptom of mental illness or brain injury.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logorrhea_(psychology)
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=MrHo;2302845]
Well that person is filled with anger and hate and pointing fingers without able to see himself.
[/QUOTE]
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[/QUOTE]
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[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]

Some of of the socially skilled are serious smartasses; they are just better a hiding it and manipulating others. Lawyers and politicians come to mind, as do grifters and scam-artists. Charming. And toxic. We should all try to maximse our human capital and help others to do the same.
[/QUOTE][NOPARSE]
Yeah you're right, Pal-max, it's better to be socially arrested than actually arrested, like those with the most "social skills," i.e. sociopaths. But I don't think anybody is arresting their social development by traveling to a foreign country, unless you believe that the only social development that is real or legitimate is within the borders of the US.
[/NOPARSE]

Also about the video with the actor telling the story. That is a prepared act. It's great but we can't all be as charming as that in real life. That raises the bar too high. If we are acting all the time, what is left of our real selves? But this is a problem in America. People are so self-conscious, they see themselves as part of a drama constantly, meaning they are constantly aware of being judged even when they are not. In LA, everybody is walking around like they are a part in a movie. And they are constantly refining these facades and identifying themselves with these facades -- becoming [I]alienated[/I] from their own core identity. It is like, my robot persona is interacting with your robot persona. And these personas are borrowed from the TV. There is no more [I]Ich-Du[/I] relationship or even [I]Ich-Es[/I], just [I]Es-Es[/I].

For more, read Jean Baudrillard on the simulacrum and his book [I]America[/I].

I would reply to more of PhallusMaximus's comments here, but lets say I agree with 70-80%, and disagree with 20-30%. Unfortunately it is always easier to answer what we disagree on at an internet forum as opposed to what we agree on. Polyamorist is very good at answering to what he agrees on though! Like in the movie Yes Man. And kudos to him on that! But I also believe that the lack of this is at the heart of the problem, so me, you, and everyone else here probably needs to improve on this. However an internet discussion board is here to discuss things. But replying to what we disagree on, creates negative impulses as opposed to positive ones. And negative impulses creates depression and conflict.

A new topic doesn't have to be correct. It can be a devils lawyer, or even a rhetorical comedian (like Mr. Ho is sometimes, and I also make attempts at sometimes in the case of the gay guy. Which totally blew out of proportions. Not to mention the whole aid. Which is related to something else, which I won't write here), starting a discussion. Especially on an internet board. The problem arises when the discussion goes from topic to person. Much like american politics these days. And I won't go more into why that is the derail of all derails. But all I can say is that not all discussions are just 3 dimensional. Subspace for example may just be the 4th etc.

Being uneducated has also never been, nor should it ever be an obstacle in order to discuss a topic. A person is always happier when learning something new. And we can learn from everyone we discuss with. In real life, or on the internet. I discuss many of these things in several other sphere both in real life and online. Not just here. This is where empathy is the best skill we can learn. Now thinking we know everything ourselves, is always a lie. None of us do. In any field of study. So we are all uneducated even if we have post doctorate degrees. Somebody who never attended university, such as one of my real life friends knows tons more about certain things than some educated guy not being up to date. Not to mention some of the sports friends of mine knowing more than professionals. And the internet and information age is here to make information available for everyone. Reducing the www into side information of less importance, is an illusion being held up by cartels of educated people wanting to hold onto their jobs. An example of this is German workers guilds who are afraid of polish workers pressing their salaries down. Or doctors still keeping most science papers and journals hidden for the public. An unfortunate consequence of the clash between capitalism and the information society. We can also label it micro protectionism.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2303146]Yeah, I know siri, but for me I go to brothel for sex only and I do not get into illusion that they try to sell. I do agree with you that there are or more like there were some elegant or let say more like really beautiful normal girls walking into FKK main bar for just short period of time to make quick cash, there still are, but it really is rare.

Another part I agree is that empowering women in work place, to my experience, they usually perform much better because they try to prove themselves.

But for me I go to brothel for sex and fun. I do not go to brothel thinking that it is real, brothel and mongering is my hobby, not more. I do love doing it though, it is one of few thing that still get me excited, but not as much since I have been mongering ever since I was 17 or 18, so sex with beauties has been supplied to me throughout my life, so naturally, excitement level is let say little more calmer than before. I still love it and I will always be monger though.[/QUOTE]Sad to start in this business at 18 yo, same like for girls. I started after more than 25 years with 4 real girlfriends and they were all great women for me, I loved them so much, they never asked me money but were happy to make me presents. I started with Russian escorts in Paris or Milano or Torino, after my end of my world.

In FKK land, I met real beauties, most were Romanian, and one at World was really perfect for her care, her baby skin, her breathe, she wanted to be so perfect, I played with her and she ran to the mirror. I never ask for more than in room or in club, I never answered to meet a FKK girl out of club, never wanted to go to Romania, but animal sex to empty balls is not enough for me, I need spark to enjoy and I try to make girls will to please me. Looking for new spark.

I think you, me, and one or two here and there have said our peace about the simple need to develop social skills and not get lost in the illusion that leads to the arrested development that heavy mongering facilitates. To deny this, one has to personally be offended by the fact that we are a complex, social species. The mere suggestion that social prowess leads to degenerate behavior is an obvious logical fallacy. And the portrayal of the innocent shy guy is an image constantly debunked by the waves of psychologically deranged, mass shooter shy guys. This normalization of social awkwardness, the signaling of surface knowledge of a particular subject matter, and bastardization of facts taking them out of context are pretty typical behaviors that are rooted in insecurity.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2302882]Never made that connection before. But according to Fig. 12 on this report, "reliving past memories" is reportedly one of the primary coping mechanisms for loneliness, according to surveyed people in USA, UK, Japan: [URL]https://www.kff.org/report-section/loneliness-and-social-isolation-in-the-united-states-the-united-kingdom-and-japan-an-international-survey-section-1/[/URL].

With regards to being socially lazy, this rationale or thought process makes sense to me: "That WG from the last trip gave me such an amazing BJ and in less than a month I will be back in FKK land to see her again, so fuck it, no need to chase this civilian girl".

But does reliving past memories make you socially lazy, when it is three of your male friends asking you to hang out? Are you like: "Nah, man I feel a cold coming on, I don't want stay out late (because I got that FKK trip coming up next week)".[/QUOTE]

With the usual exceptions for the <2% of kind, trustworthy good women with a brain who want to build a real life and don't worship consumer baubles or are consumed with Instagram-like / equivalent social media narcissism, if it flys, floats or phucks, rent, don't buy.

Secondly, high quality ice cream is cheaper and better that jargon spouting priesthood known as psychology / sociology, especially the ones with brain altering chemicals on sale we managed without for about the last 120,000 years since we became sentient. Add to that a couple of good, trustworthy friends and stay off drugs like alcohol and other crap. A big shaggy golden retriever is also known to bring much joy.

Long live pretty young women in their sexual prime in FKK's for our pleasure. Be glad you are a man and that we have such options to live like a prince for day and naked girls parading around. The desert for a meal of an otherwise happy balanced life.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2303429]Sad to start in this business at 18 yo, same like for girls. I started after more than 25 years with 4 real girlfriends and they were all great women for me, I loved them so much, they never asked me money but were happy to make me presents. I started with Russian escorts in Paris or Milano or Torino, after my end of my world.

In FKK land, I met real beauties, most were Romanian, and one at World was really perfect for her care, her baby skin, her breathe, she wanted to be so perfect, I played with her and she ran to the mirror. I never ask for more than in room or in club, I never answered to meet a FKK girl out of club, never wanted to go to Romania, but animal sex to empty balls is not enough for me, I need spark to enjoy and I try to make girls will to please me. Looking for new spark.[/QUOTE]Siri,

I did both till age 26 or 27, they never asked me for money, but they were not normal looking girls, they were real beauties and some were models, so even they don't ask me for cash, these relationships were really expensive even to me like birthday presents, valentine days, travelling, wining and dining almost everyday etc, so at one point in my life around when I was 26 or 27, I turned to almost full time mongering.

However, I am in good crowd, so once in a while, I still do fuck with normal beautiful girls, it is just that I do not try in that field any more due to irrationality when I can get what I want in other supplier, but here is the difference between you and me, I see women for only their youth, beauty and sex, you want more from women, I do not, I just want to fuck them while they are young and beautiful without any responsibility.

It is privileged to begin young. I don't think it is sad to start in this at early age as long as you are on consumer side, it is privileged to begin at young age because not all can begin due to financial reason and also connection // link to this world. I went to boarding school and beside its good reputation, it really is wild and crazy inside and through that world of mayhem of fun time, I was given access to this world at younger age, I began in Zurich and Geneva with escort but I know a friend who began this at age of 14 or something like that, I only wish I found this at younger age like that, but 17 or 18 is good age to begin.

It is matter of opinion, but for me, it is better to begin pleasure in life young because life is limited, amount of time given to us is limited, so why waste time? Why waste life like that? I make sure I live good life every day and I am greatly appreciating for some opportunity I was given to me and that include my among best sex life. Why waste time? If I have access to beautiful fun that is harmless.

I did not find German FKK till my late 20's though, I think I was 28 or 29 when I first found German FKK. Artemis in golden days it was.

The only annoying thing we may encounter at FKK's are when girls somehow tells us no. It can happen for all sorts of reasons. Such as them considering that you are one of the properties of a friend of them. Or that she has heard you paid another girl a bit more, and want to upsell. Or some other reasons. It is like what the fuck? I am not here for drama. I want to explore my instinctual polygamous nature and be as unfaithful as possible. Because society has told me it is wrong. And I have a kink for doing wrong things. Like breaking out of that box society tries to stretch over our heads. Nobody wants to be told what to do. Every action gets an equal and opposite counter action. That is why we get attracted to girls who tells us no. The unobtainable. Whereas a girl who comes to us ASAP and lays in our laps at an FKK is not of interest. We seek out that sexy hot bartender. Since she is off the menu. But at the same time, our mental heads want a yes after a short while. We need to get back to our hotels for a nap before the club close. LOL!

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2303429]Sad to start in this business at 18 yo, same like for girls. I started after more than 25 years with 4 real girlfriends and they were all great women for me, I loved them so much, they never asked me money but were happy to make me presents. I started with Russian escorts in Paris or Milano or Torino, after my end of my world.

In FKK land, I met real beauties, most were Romanian, and one at World was really perfect for her care, her baby skin, her breathe, she wanted to be so perfect, I played with her and she ran to the mirror. I never ask for more than in room or in club, I never answered to meet a FKK girl out of club, never wanted to go to Romania, but animal sex to empty balls is not enough for me, I need spark to enjoy and I try to make girls will to please me. Looking for new spark.[/QUOTE]I went first time for P6 when I was 45, but after more than 15 years of mongering and probably 500+ girls, I am switching to other kind of hobbies, I drastically reduced the number of rooms and will only go with girls I consider being top. I met girls outside the clubs and went several time to Roumania with girls to visit their families just to understand a little bit more how it works. Always the same story, low income families, usually no father, low education.

By reducing the number of sessions my libido is strongly higher and on top of that I am saving a lot of cash, you can t imagine how much.

[QUOTE]"Psychopaths often have disarming or even charming personalities. Psychopaths are very manipulative and can easily gain peoples trust. They learn to mimic emotions, despite their inability to actually feel them, and will appear normal to unsuspecting people." [/QUOTE][QUOTE]"Sociopaths tend to be nervous and easily agitated. They are volatile and prone to emotional outbursts, including fits of rage. They live on the fringes of society. It is difficult but not impossible for sociopaths to form attachments with others. Many sociopaths are able to form an attachment to a particular individual or group, although they have no regard for society in general or its rules. In the eyes of others, sociopaths will appear to be very disturbed."[/QUOTE]The commonality between the two is that they both lack empathy and feel little to no guilt when hurting others, although the psychopath is considered more severe in both regards. An example of a sociopath would be mass-shooter, Elliot Rodger. Wikipedia identifies his motive as "revenge for perceived sexual and social rejection". His emotional outbursts can be found on YT. An example of a psychopath would be Hitler, who was able to inflict harm on a much larger scale, due to his advanced social skills.

It is important to note that the majority of psychopaths and sociopaths live normal and law-abiding lives. However, the reasons why they adhere to laws is different than that of the "normal person". A normal person would not go on a murderous rampage because they would not be able to endure seeing others in pain. The psychopath / sociopath would not go on a murderous rampage because the risks, in most cases, would outweigh the potential rewards. The important thing is that nobody goes on murderous rampages. Their motives for not going on these murderous rampages are less important. As a side note, psychopaths are considered to be a by-product of "nature" (underdeveloped part of the brain), whereas sociopaths are considered to be a by-product of "nurture" (childhood trauma, physical / emotional abuse).

Not everyone with advanced social skills is a psychopath, just like not everyone with underdeveloped social skills is a sociopath. My best friend growing up was the most popular, well-liked person in our school, and he certainly did not grow up to be a dictator hellbent on world domination. I envied his ability to make everyone feel at ease. He always made an effort to ensure everyone felt included. Had this been "ass-kissing" behavior, then he would have only been nice to others at his level of the social hierarchy or higher. Many of his kind gestures were done when nobody was looking (long before virtual signaling and social media). His advanced social skills allowed him to recognize people in pain, and make them feel better about themselves. He would strike up a conversation with an old lady on the bus just to brighten her day. And he would stand-up for someone who was getting bullied. I have also met many basement dwellers who, unlike Elliot Rodger, would never hurt a fly. When they offended someone, it was never deliberate, and often they were unaware that they even offended someone in the first place. They simply had poor social calibration. They pushed boundaries when they shouldn't have, for instance, taking a joke farther than they should have.

[URL]https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/wicked-deeds/201401/how-tell-sociopath-psychopath[/URL]

Who cares loneliness, social skill and so on if they don't worsen or better someone's quality of life. The bottom line for happy human life is quality of life, not loneliness, social skill and other factors which may or may not contribute to quality of life. If these factors don't affect someone's quality of life, he shouldn't care about them. If these factors worsen or better someone's quality of life, he should try to change them. But these factors don't necessarily worsen or better someone's quality of life.

In my opinion, the goal of human life should be to maximize AVERAGE quality of life in his projected lifespan (say 80). For example, a 35-year-old man robbed bank where he got several millions euro and lived next 2 years like a billionaire, then he got caught and is sentenced to life in prison without parole. Yes, he had 2-year very good quality of life, but his AVERAGE quality of life in his lifespan is miserable because he has to spend rest of his life in prison.

If loneliness, social skill and other factors worsen or better someone's average quality of life in his remaining lifespan, he should try to change them. If those factors don't affect it, he shouldn't care about them. Those factors don't necessarily affect average quality of life in someone's remaining lifespan. A hypothetical example would be: if someone only has one week to live, I don't think he would care about loneliness and social skill because they don't affect the quality of his remaining one-week life.

This topic seems to be relevant to mongers, so I am sharing my view.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2301134]I just got back from a skiing trip to Austria, with some club visits included.
I drove for 4 hours tonight, and fell asleep behind the wheel over 30 times times going at 125 km / h. In a world of free will I would have been clean dead by now. But in our little simulation here, I was not determined to die. I was determined to write this little useless report here on ISG instead. And before I exited my lane a couple of dousing times, I sensed something was wrong. Something subconscious woke me up again and again. As if I could see the future. As if my subconscious knew that also time was a lie, and that everything is predetermined. A split second from death again and again. Like Russian roulette after a party with Vito Corleone high up in the Austrian apls.[/QUOTE]Wish you had good ski, but don't you know about intense sport effects? Doctors know about. My last experience was on Thursday 21 March I woke up at 8 am, sleeping about 6 hours, warmed up, took breakfast and was ready at 10 am for my day of the year for free ride in France, in famous La Grave la Meije with Girose glacier, but unfortunately lift on top to 3200 high was closed because of wind, so impossible to reach Girose glacier and combes above Chancel lake where when you go, you don't see under, so you will have to manage because impossible to return to the top. Very frustrating, so I decided to drive 500 kms to Zurich to discover Aphrodisia, it was too late to move to go to ski in another interesting place. So I discovered Aphrodisia, disappointing casting, no wow girl seen to worth 280 for 30 mn. Beatrice ex Oase and Sharks took weight and not anymore blond. Left Aphrodisia at 9. 30 pm to drive back to Alps to sleep at 3. 30 am. Woke up on Friday at 8 am to go to free ride in 3 Valleys, great weather and snow, so Mont Vallon free ride, 4 La Saulire combes when I couldn't do 3 of them which were closed when I tried since 2015 , even gopro combe down to Meribel was closed, but I knew it was my day, so I was the only one to go on ice between rocks, at the bottom I did let ski go, to recover, back to Val Thorens where couldn't resist to Marielle Goitschel and cascades bumps, so many bumps and shocks in knees and back on this amazing day, 88% in Courchevel grand couloir combe, but I knew I broke my body, so I decide to drive to GT, more than 1000 kms through Switzerland at night. How is it possible? When you can hardly breathe because you legs and back are full pain, then pain will reach your head, but you can drive all night even driving like a snail in Switzerland is exhausting, but you can't sleep, why? Because of all adrenaline you made, a real drug to feel good even pain everywhere and you can t sleep. On the other hand, when I find a great girl I enjoy, when I don t work on her, I relax and micro sleep when she works on me, pressure falling. When I climb with heart in red zone for hours, same, impossible to sleep after. With adrenaline, you feel so good in your body, even sometimes I would like to forget pains which are exhausting, but passions are stronger. Why I sleep only few hours.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2303866]Who cares loneliness, social skill and so on if they don't worsen or better someone's quality of life.[/QUOTE]Very well written post! I think we agree 100% on this one! Just discussing it seems to have been a big derail by one or two people here. I don't know what they are trying to say, but discussing it is like focusing on breathing during an exercise routine. Quite the boring exercise. It is supposed to flow naturally.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2303502]Siri,

I did both till age 26 or 27, they never asked me for money, but they were not normal looking girls, they were real beauties and some were models, so even they don't ask me for cash, these relationships were really expensive even to me like birthday presents, valentine days, travelling, wining and dining almost everyday etc, so at one point in my life around when I was 26 or 27, I turned to almost full time mongering.

However, I am in good crowd, so once in a while, I still do fuck with normal beautiful girls, it is just that I do not try in that field any more due to irrationality when I can get what I want in other supplier, but here is the difference between you and me, I see women for only their youth, beauty and sex, you want more from women, I do not, I just want to fuck them while they are young and beautiful without any responsibility.

It is privileged to begin young. I don't think it is sad to start in this at early age as long as you are on consumer side, it is privileged to begin at young age because not all can begin due to financial reason and also connection // link to this world. I went to boarding school and beside its good reputation, it really is wild and crazy inside and through that world of mayhem of fun time, I was given access to this world at younger age, I began in Zurich and Geneva with escort but I know a friend who began this at age of 14 or something like that, I only wish I found this at younger age like that, but 17 or 18 is good age to begin..[/QUOTE]As say girls, we are very different, not the faintest interest for me to fuck a piece of meat even pretty, but I enjoyed on last Friday at LR my ex who needed to tell me: for my respect for you, I refused, I lost money for you, a usually not so busy WG losing money for you, I find this interesting furthermore when no room together since 5 months, same than at World on January 2015, my fav came for me on Wednesday night while Wengen and Kitzbuel, she made 200 for our 2 rooms, had to pay 95 for entry, working from 7 pm to 4 am, I apologized about this but she said no problem and returned. I much prefer the woman side, I look for this, behind some WGs, can touch the woman, these ones are interesting for me.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2303866]Who cares loneliness, social skill and so on if they don't worsen or better someone's quality of life.

This topic seems to be relevant to mongers, so I am sharing my view.[/QUOTE]Well said, but they seem to be lonely with limited social skill, so they do. Other wise, they would not bring it up attacking others for writing here on internet sex forum while they do it themselves.

The difference is that, I write here about mongering related topic on sex forum because I can only talk about mongering on internet forum like this due to anonymity.

On the other hand, they write about social skill and loneliness here on sex forum because they cannot talk about that to their real time friends because they don't have any, I mean why do they write about social skill and loneliness on internet sex forum, I mean this is sex forum right?

Plus, there is a person with few accounts here, now writing with different handle name to previous account who began talking about loneliness and social skill and human connection on this sex forum, I mean it is insane LOL.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2303524]That is why we get attracted to girls who tells us no. The unobtainable. Whereas a girl who comes to us ASAP and lays in our laps at an FKK is not of interest. We seek out that sexy hot bartender. Since she is off the menu. But at the same time, our mental heads want a yes after a short while. [/QUOTE]Pistons, I was thinking about this today after banging a slim princess type of 20. It was quite fun even though she gave me the vibe she wasn't 100% into me.

They say the greatest happiness comes from the rewards we have earned from our hard work. But there is also a thrill we get from the unexpected, in particular the things we [I]don't[/I] deserve. The cheat code in the video game. The trade we put no thought into that unexpectedly gives a 1000% return. Now if a woman can convince us that she is way too good for us but that she has to fuck us anyway, that is a special feeling! I suspect that is why so many girls in Europe play the princess, and why so many guys fall for them. Following this line of reasoning, it is the man with an inferiority complex who stands to gain the most pleasure from sex because to him nearly every woman is a goddess compared to his own unworthy self. He is the lucky masochist.

Personally I don't go for the princess type as a rule. I see too many girls putting on airs whose looks and intelligence clearly do not justify it, so it ends up seeming like a crass bluff. But I feel enough to understand the impulse in other guys.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2303878]As say girls, we are very different, not the faintest interest for me to fuck a piece of meat even pretty, but I enjoyed on last Friday at LR my ex who needed to tell me: for my respect for you, I refused, I lost money for you, a usually not so busy WG losing money for you, I find this interesting furthermore when no room together since 5 months, same than at World on January 2015, my fav came for me on Wednesday night while Wengen and Kitzbuel, she made 200 for our 2 rooms, had to pay 95 for entry, working from 7 pm to 4 am, I apologized about this but she said no problem and returned. I much prefer the woman side, I look for this, behind some WGs, can touch the woman, these ones are interesting for me.[/QUOTE]As I mentioned before, it is each their own and if you seek more than lust and sexual fantasies in FKK, it is good for you and I am happy that you are happy there at FKK with your style of use.

But for me, I do not like any drama, annoying process or problem, I like sex with no string attached or any responsibility, so I use FKK just for sex and lust, so as long as I can fuck many nice looking girls per day, I am not into any dialogue or story with FKK girls, I prefer to keep my relation with FKK girls just sex and lust. Sometimes, we exchange contacts and they send short messages, I reply mildly, but I only see these short messages as their way of marketing, so I may come back to them. Well, I will as long as they remain young and beautiful next time I see them at FKK.

I am fully aware that FKK is type of brothel and girls in there are prostitute, so for me they are there for sex and that is it, nothing less, nothing more. Now, some of these girls are really warm hearted and even smart, and I do have some respect for some of them, but what happen in FKK stay in FKK, and I never took the relation to outside or seriously.

It amuse me how you talk about some of the girls you had in FKK like it was a dream and I do the same thing, but for me it is sex related thing that are engraved in my brain, I do look back and think about many beautiful young girls who provided me best sexual memories and fantasies and now they are retired and gone from industry, it was good sexual memories with them and there are more to come, but with new young beautiful girls, this is good thing about FKK or mongering, every year is new door for me, new door to new heaven, and it is guaranteed that I fuck new young beautiful girls every year ever since I was 17 or 18 and it will be so as long as I live.

Some mongers seems to have dilemma to be monger and they are bit lost confusing social skill, human connection with mongering, it has no relation. Mongering is just for sexual connection and has nothing to do with social skill or human connection, you do that with friends or family or pet. Once you are pro monger, you are happy everyday because at least in area of lust, which is important part of life, you are secure to be fulfilled, I am never frustrated because for me to fuck beautiful girl, it is so easy and my record of fucking beautiful girls out stand most men alive and I will keep on fucking new beautiful stunner girls every year, I always have, I always will because I am pro monger.

I understand that this is the "Lounge and chat area" thread, but still, given the number of Psych 101 Lessons we are getting here for last few weeks, should we request Admin to change the name of this thread to something like "Mongering Psych" or to add a new thread for Psych lessons and discussions?

Even in real life lounges, do you guys chat about psychology this much?

[QUOTE=Gino02;2303906]I understand that this is the "Lounge and chat area" thread, but still, given the number of Psych 101 Lessons we are getting here for last few weeks, should we request Admin to change the name of this thread to something like "Mongering Psych" or to add a new thread for Psych lessons and discussions?

Even in real life lounges, do you guys chat about psychology this much? 😁😁[/QUOTE]+1.

This used to be a place I could drop in and enjoy any variety of discussion about sex. Now a small cadre of guys have single handedly coopted it and destroyed it. I no longer bother to visit and that is a real shame because it used to be like a bar / lounge where guys hang out virtually together. Now it's like going to the doctor. It was bearable for a few days but it's just become the norm now. . Now it's just sad and gone.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2303873]Wish you had good ski, but don't you know about intense sport effects? Doctors know about. My last experience was on Thursday 21 March I woke up at 8 am, sleeping about 6 hours, warmed up, took breakfast and was ready at 10 am for my day of the year for free ride in France, in famous La Grave la Meije with Girose glacier, but unfortunately lift on top to 3200 high was closed because of wind, so impossible to reach Girose glacier and combes above Chancel lake where when you go, you don't see under, so you will have to manage because impossible to return to the top. Very frustrating, so I decided to drive 500 kms to Zurich to discover Aphrodisia, it was too late to move to go to ski in another interesting place. So I discovered Aphrodisia, disappointing casting, no wow girl seen to worth 280 for 30 mn. Beatrice ex Oase and Sharks took weight and not anymore blond. Left Aphrodisia at 9. 30 pm to drive back to Alps to sleep at 3. 30 am. Woke up on Friday at 8 am to go to free ride in 3 Valleys, great weather and snow, so Mont Vallon free ride, 4 La Saulire combes when I couldn't do 3 of them which were closed when I tried since 2015 , even gopro combe down to Meribel was closed, but I knew it was my day, so I was the only one to go on ice between rocks, at the bottom I did let ski go, to recover, back to Val Thorens where couldn't resist to Marielle Goitschel and cascades bumps, so many bumps and shocks in knees and back on this amazing day, 88% in Courchevel grand couloir combe, but I knew I broke my body, so I decide to drive to GT, more than 1000 kms through Switzerland at night. How is it possible? When you can hardly breathe because you legs and back are full pain, then pain will reach your head, but you can drive all night even driving like a snail in Switzerland is exhausting, but you can't sleep, why? Because of all adrenaline you made, a real drug to feel good even pain everywhere and you can t sleep. On the other hand, when I find a great girl I enjoy, when I don t work on her, I relax and micro sleep when she works on me, pressure falling. When I climb with heart in red zone for hours, same, impossible to sleep after. With adrenaline, you feel so good in your body, even sometimes I would like to forget pains which are exhausting, but passions are stronger. Why I sleep only few hours.[/QUOTE]So during such weekend you exercise in Swiss mountains and you Sex-ercise in nrw regions at FKK LOL!

Where do you sleep during such combined weekend? Do you carry tent in your car or something? Or you can sleep in your car somehow like it is big enough SUV to sleep arguably comfortable?

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2303873]Wish you had good ski, but don't you know about intense sport effects?.[/QUOTE]I was just at Nassfeld because of proximity to Wellcum / Andiamo. But weather was looking grim just before I arrived. So I had backup plans on driving up to either Kitchbuhl or Kaiser Brixental in case the skiing conditions were better up there, or into the italian dolomites and Sella Ronda / Kronplatz / Cortina in case conditions there were better.

But I was lucky, and it snowed 50 cm the day before I arrived, so I had 3 fantastic days of skiing in Nassfeld. It exhausted me quite a bit however, so I took 4th day off. And on the Saturday when I tried to return and went snowboard instead, the temperature had gone up a bit much. So mid day it was already a bit slushy. Sunday it was 22 degrees down in the valley, so better to relax in the sun at Wellcum than hitting slushy slopes. That is an over 20 degree temperature change in 5 days.

It is too bad with french P6 laws. The resorts in France looks really good with especially The 3 Valleys, Tignes, Grand Massif and more. And the border resorts going into Italy like Sestriere and La Rosiere / La Thuile (last of which some Italian guy at Wellcum hyped up a bit for great views). But travel distance and flights for me blows in regards to the french alps. Plus the swizz FKKs are a bit on the expensive side.

I would rather consider a trip to western tirol then and the resorts there, and hit circolo passion for apres ski as a change of pace. St. Anton / Arlberg, Solden / Hochgurgl, Ischgl, Serfaus / Fiss. And I've been to Zillertal a few times, so leaving that out. There is plenty to choose from!

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2303866]Who cares loneliness, social skill and so on if they don't worsen or better someone's quality of life. The bottom line for happy human life is quality of life, not loneliness, social skill and other factors.[/QUOTE]I have yet to meet a high quality of life person who is lonely and has no social skills. Your scenario doesn't seem to be possible, at the least, not common.

Many here seem to consider "loneliness" or "poor social skills" a negative label. I do not believe these labels should be stigmatized, except in cases where they lead to extreme bitterness about life. As I said loneliness is extremely common, especially amongst younger millennials. It is a fact of modern life. You or someone you know will suffer from it. Loneliness even affects people who have many friends and are successful, rich, and famous. For instance, I do not think the Rock, Brad Pitt or Matthew Perry have "weak minds".

[QUOTE]https://www.dailyedge.ie/dwayne-johnson-opens-up-about-struggle-with-depression-3936001-Apr2018/

"I reached a point where I didnt want to do a thing or go anywhere. I was crying constantly."
"We all go through the sludge/shit and depression never discriminates. Took me a long time to realize it, but the key is to not be afraid to open up. Especially us dudes have a tendency to keep it in. Youre not alone."[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]http://www.srjnews.com/brad-pitt-reveals-he-is-lonely-in-an-emotional-interview-to-gq-style/6161/ [/QUOTE][QUOTE]https://www.socialworkdegreeguide.com/30-famous-people-alive-today-battled-depression/

Perry was battling severe depression that ultimately led to debilitating addiction issues. Perry, who calls his time on Friends the worst and loneliest years of his life, spent the better part of a decade in and out of rehab for depression, drinking, and opiates. It was only when his costars began to catch on, and the media began reporting his troubles, that Perry says he finally began his slow path to recovery. [/QUOTE]As for people with underdeveloped social skills, Johnny Depp comes immediately to mind. He has opened up about his social anxiety. All telltale signs are there (slouched shoulders, mumbles, rarely does interviews). Most people would not label him a "loser" in life.

[blue]Gentlemen,

The purpose of this Forum is to provide for the exchange of information between Men on the subject of finding Women for Sex.

Let's get back to the subject.

Thank You,

Jackson[/blue]

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2304007]Many here seem to consider "loneliness" or "poor social skills" a negative label. I do not believe these labels should be stigmatized, except in cases where they lead to extreme bitterness about life. As I said loneliness is extremely common, especially amongst younger millennials. It is a fact of modern life. You or someone you know will suffer from it. Loneliness even affects people who have many friends and are successful, rich, and famous. For instance, I do not think the Rock, Brad Pitt or Matthew Perry have "weak minds".

As for people with underdeveloped social skills, Johnny Depp comes immediately to mind. He has opened up about his social anxiety. All telltale signs are there (slouched shoulders, mumbles, rarely does interviews). Most people would not label him a "loser" in life.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I keep saying it. Instead of being personally offended, it's better to admit a personal flaw so that you can improve. Instead, you get people trying to normalize social awkwardness while demonizing social prowess and claiming that loneliness does not infer lower quality of life. It just takes a little bit of humility and willingness to accept a challenge. My only theory to explain so much resistance to an idea so logical and common place is that years of mongering makes people lazy, unwilling to put in hard work for large reward.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2303910]+1.

This used to be a place I could drop in and enjoy any variety of discussion about sex. Now a small cadre of guys have single handedly coopted it and destroyed it. I no longer bother to visit and that is a real shame because it used to be like a bar / lounge where guys hang out virtually together. Now it's like going to the doctor. It was bearable for a few days but it's just become the norm now. . Now it's just sad and gone.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I agree. This used to be one of my favorite threads on the site, but no longer. Too many philosopher-monger kings. Oh well, maybe again some other day!

[QUOTE=MrHo;2303946]So during such weekend you exercise in Swiss mountains and you Sex-ercise in nrw regions at FKK LOL!

Where do you sleep during such combined weekend? Do you carry tent in your car or something? Or you can sleep in your car somehow like it is big enough SUV to sleep arguably comfortable?[/QUOTE]No I did ski in central french Alps on Wednesday, drove to Zurich Aphrodisia and back on Thursday, did ski again in central french Alps on Friday and drove to GT on Friday night. From Tuesday evening to Saturday, I slept about 16 hours on 4 nights, skiing 2 days, driving 2000 kms. My meaning was with adrenaline, you can t sleep. When climbing on Summer, after so intense efforts, sometimes my heart go to tachycardie after efforts, then very difficult to control heart rhythm and then you are very afraid to feel asleep, have to breathe very slowly and very deeply to try to control. Wish to recover for next week for my extreme free ride in Verbier and la Grave.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2303905]As I mentioned before, it is each their own and if you seek more than lust and sexual fantasies in FKK, it is good for you and I am happy that you are happy there at FKK with your style of use.

But for me, I do not like any drama, annoying process or problem, I like sex with no string attached or any responsibility, so I use FKK just for sex and lust, so as long as I can fuck many nice looking girls per day, I am not into any dialogue or story with FKK girls, I prefer to keep my relation with FKK girls just sex and lust. Sometimes, we exchange contacts and they send short messages, I reply mildly, but I only see these short messages as their way of marketing, so I may come back to them. Well, I will as long as they remain young and beautiful next time I see them at FKK.

I am fully aware that FKK is type of brothel and girls in there are prostitute, so for me they are there for sex and that is it, nothing less, nothing more. Now, some of these girls are really warm hearted and even smart, and I do have some respect for some of them, but what happen in FKK stay in FKK, and I never took the relation to outside or seriously..[/QUOTE]When no spark, sex is so boring, when most of WGs have low level for sexuality, even they are animal fucked many times, not my way for sex, I enjoy how girls behave for me.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2304007]Many here seem to consider "loneliness" or "poor social skills" a negative label. I do not believe these labels should be stigmatized, except in cases where they lead to extreme bitterness about life. As I said loneliness is extremely common, especially amongst younger millennials. It is a fact of modern life. You or someone you know will suffer from it. Loneliness even affects people who have many friends and are successful, rich, and famous. For instance, I do not think the Rock, Brad Pitt or Matthew Perry have "weak minds".

As for people with underdeveloped social skills, Johnny Depp comes immediately to mind. He has opened up about his social anxiety. All telltale signs are there (slouched shoulders, mumbles, rarely does interviews). Most people would not label him a "loser" in life.[/QUOTE]Something I really don't understand in brothels, is some guys seem more interested by some other guys than by girls, or seem to look to find friends in brothels. Really not the best places to find friends, only pretty girls interest me, I prefer to stay lonely and concentrated to try to find beauties. Not so easy.

Of course, some Germans visit to meet, to drink, to sauna, not for girls, but I'm not German yet.

[QUOTE=KyDaddy;2302625]She would like the ability to be and possibly walk around naked (especially near pool, saunas and outdoor areas); sex with women in the club (both active and watching me) - I know this is lady specific; she would like to possibly have sex with another male guest (no exchange of money) - I know this may not go over well with the ladies in the club so it is not a requirement. So on to my general questions, I will ask the specific questions after we narrow down where we want to go.

Is there a recommended FKK in the Frankfurt area that is more couple friendly than others? Are there specific days that are better?

The same question for Germany as a whole- is there a FKK or Sauna Club that is considered to be the best for couples?[/QUOTE]I have seen couples in FKK World, not far from Frankfurt, quite a few times. It is probably the best option during this period as it has a large indoor pool, saunas and jacuzzi. I have seen the woman walking around naked in the downstairs pool area and downstairs lounge and bar, but not in the main bar upstairs.

If you want to try to bring another man in, maybe you can try that in warmer weather in one of the outdoor huts which are very discreet. Indeed a few years ago, I was invited by a couple to join them! (but I did not as it was not my kinda thing).

I read below that someone recommended Babylon. While I have seen a couple there once before, as it is less spacious than World, and as the boss Eddie is often present, I suspect you will find it restrictive.

For those that would rather read about encounters and sex let me know if you want me to drop some field reports here. Been a good Q1. Can drop Q1 FRs on Graz, Linz, Zurich, Shanghai, Tokyo or Taipei. Anyone care to know what goes on rest of world? Just pick your poison and I will serve it up!

Also happy to do a custom post summarizing those venues. Or thoughts on London, Brazil, Russia or other such. Just let me know what interests you. This is my second life!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2304253]For those that would rather read about encounters and sex let me know if you want me to drop some field reports here. Been a good Q1. Can drop Q1 FRs on Graz, Linz, Zurich, Shanghai, Tokyo or Taipei. Anyone care to know what goes on rest of world? Just pick your poison and I will serve it up!

Also happy to do a custom post summarizing those venues. Or thoughts on London, Brazil, Russia or other such. Just let me know what interests you. This is my second life![/QUOTE]Please please share all of your world experiences, man. Thanks in advance.

I'm sick of all these Psychology posts.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2303947]I was just at Nassfeld because of proximity to Wellcum / Andiamo. But weather was looking grim just before I arrived. So I had backup plans on driving up to either Kitchbuhl or Kaiser Brixental in case the skiing conditions were better up there, or into the italian dolomites and Sella Ronda / Kronplatz / Cortina in case conditions there were better.

But I was lucky, and it snowed 50 cm the day before I arrived, so I had 3 fantastic days of skiing in Nassfeld. It exhausted me quite a bit however, so I took 4th day off. And on the Saturday when I tried to return and went snowboard instead, the temperature had gone up a bit much. So mid day it was already a bit slushy. Sunday it was 22 degrees down in the valley, so better to relax in the sun at Wellcum than hitting slushy slopes. That is an over 20 degree temperature change in 5 days.

It is too bad with french P6 laws. The resorts in France looks really good with especially The 3 Valleys, Tignes, Grand Massif and more. And the border resorts going into Italy like Sestriere and La Rosiere / La Thuile (last of which some Italian guy at Wellcum hyped up a bit for great views). But travel distance and flights for me blows in regards to the french alps. Plus the swizz FKKs are a bit on the expensive side.

I would rather consider a trip to western tirol then and the resorts there, and hit circolo passion for apres ski as a change of pace. St. Anton / Arlberg, Solden / Hochgurgl, Ischgl, Serfaus / Fiss. And I've been to Zillertal a few times, so leaving that out. There is plenty to choose from![/QUOTE]I visit Wellcum only because I drive from Stelvio to Zoncolan, 5 hours driving through Dolomiti to climb 10 kms, even Italians who are passionate for sports, say I m crazy for passion.

Not too far from Wellcum, Cortina is really wonderful in Dolomiti. When You push over limits, then, if You make adrenaline, help You not to sleep, You feel tired, can be even exhausted, can feel pains because of shocks or injuries, but really difficult to sleep. Then You have more time for life, when You sleep only very few hours, even doctors say better to sleep at least 7 hours, but then only 17 hours in a day.

[QUOTE=TankTank123;2304223]I have seen couples in FKK World, not far from Frankfurt, quite a few times. It is probably the best option during this period as it has a large indoor pool, saunas and jacuzzi. I have seen the woman walking around naked in the downstairs pool area and downstairs lounge and bar, but not in the main bar upstairs.

If you want to try to bring another man in, maybe you can try that in warmer weather in one of the outdoor huts which are very discreet. Indeed a few years ago, I was invited by a couple to join them! (but I did not as it was not my kinda thing).

I read below that someone recommended Babylon. While I have seen a couple there once before, as it is less spacious than World, and as the boss Eddie is often present, I suspect you will find it restrictive.[/QUOTE]Thanks Tank, World is indeed closer. While I have not been to World in quite some time, I have the impression (from the forum) that perhaps it has gone down hill in its care and upkeep? Bab was indeed recommended here and that's what caused me to post there. Bab website implies couple permissiveness:

"Open minded women who like to have fun without payment. And men too. Are welcome to find partners in the FKK-club, if that turns you on. Some couples prefer to mix business with pleasure, in which case the general rules for our female guests apply" & "Private couples in our club are welcome to indulge in some sexual practices that are not permitted by law to sex workers and guests who expect compensation for their activities. " Thanks for the tip. Do I have an incorrect impression on the current state of affairs at World?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2304253]For those that would rather read about encounters and sex let me know if you want me to drop some field reports here. Been a good Q1. Can drop Q1 FRs on Graz, Linz, Zurich, Shanghai, Tokyo or Taipei. Anyone care to know what goes on rest of world? Just pick your poison and I will serve it up!

Also happy to do a custom post summarizing those venues. Or thoughts on London, Brazil, Russia or other such. Just let me know what interests you. This is my second life![/QUOTE]Second Life? I recall when I studied abroad and lots of people there were playing this mmo with some adult sex twist. I think it was called Second Life!

Not really too interested in that game, but if you got some info on the real world, shoot!

[QUOTE=Gino02;2304282]Please please share all of your world experiences, man. Thanks in advance.

I'm sick of all these Psychology posts.[/QUOTE]OK I will start farthest from home with an overview of the AP scene — at least the countries I know, followed by FRs from the recent ones — one per venue unless otherwise requested. So tonight look for overview and a Shanghai FR.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2304153]No I did ski in central french Alps on Wednesday, drove to Zurich Aphrodisia and back on Thursday, did ski again in central french Alps on Friday and drove to GT on Friday night. From Tuesday evening to Saturday, I slept about 16 hours on 4 nights, skiing 2 days, driving 2000 kms. My meaning was with adrenaline, you can t sleep. When climbing on Summer, after so intense efforts, sometimes my heart go to tachycardie after efforts, then very difficult to control heart rhythm and then you are very afraid to feel asleep, have to breathe very slowly and very deeply to try to control. Wish to recover for next week for my extreme free ride in Verbier and la Grave.[/QUOTE]That is hard core schedule LOL.

Well usually for me.

First night: Fly into Frankfurt, I arrive around 7 pm, I go to straight to palace from airport to hit 8 pm shift girls. So palace first night. I sleep at Frankfurt.

Second day: Morning like 8 AM, I take morning train to Dusseldorf, then change train to venlo, go to GT, I arrive at GT like around noon, I stay there till 6 PM. At 6 PM I leave GT to head to Duss to go to oceans for night shift. So GT during day and oceans at night for second day. I sleep at Duss. So GT and oceans second day.

Third day: I wake up and go to GT again, I stay till like 4 pm to decide if lineup is good to stat in GT till later or leave now and if leaving, then I head back to Frankfurt at around 5 pm. I am back in Frankfurt at 8 pm ish, then I attend palace for night shift. I sleep at Frankfurt.

Fourth day: I take little rest during day from fucking and it is no point going to palace from daytime due to low line up, so I go eat nice lunch, take a walk and jogging by river Maine in Frankfurt etc. Then around 4 pm, I go to palace. I sleep at Frankfurt.

Fifth day: I also chill during day like a day before and then go to palace at 4 pm ish.

Sixth day: I am flying out of Frankfurt to go back home.

I do all this totally stoned on legal herbs LOL! So it is more downer for me than upper adrenaline LOL, I tell you it is so funky to walk around Frankfurt station at midnight totally stoned surrounded by bunch of odd looking people you find at late at night in HBF LOL! It is like fear and loathing in Las Vegas LOL! So I cannot drive due to my state of THC LOL.

I usually do trips like above 1 to 3 trips per year depending on my schedule and feeling, but lately, due to line up, I feel lazy to go, but I force myself to make at least one trip per year every year. I could throw in Oase in there, but I went once and it was too much upsell club, but I will give it another shot because now that I think about it, I did find two stunners there. Sharks I tried few time, I think 3 times, line up never satisfied me at all.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2304157]When no spark, sex is so boring, when most of WGs have low level for sexuality, even they are animal fucked many times, not my way for sex, I enjoy how girls behave for me.[/QUOTE]For me, as long as they look beautiful, it is all good, rest is up to me and cash to bring out the performance from her. Most girls are nice in FKK with my experience. I can only count with one hand the session that was not good enough for me, but with those girls I had to cut the session at 30 min, but I still make sure I cum by hardcore doggy banging.

[QUOTE=KyDaddy;2304340]Thanks Tank, World is indeed closer. While I have not been to World in quite some time, I have the impression (from the forum) that perhaps it has gone down hill in its care and upkeep? Bab was indeed recommended here and that's what caused me to post there. Bab website implies couple permissiveness:

Do I have an incorrect impression on the current state of affairs at World?[/QUOTE]Half correct. In upkeep, World has actually improved! Many of the rooms have been renovated, and the rest will be progressively completed. Quite a few new platforms, and bush-surrounded places built for sex in the garden. Lounge, furniture, and one of the saunas had also been renovated. And there is that treehouse that is very nice in summer. It has a huge bed large enough for 4 persons. I imagine you and partner should be able to entice others to join you there.

However, the number of girls have shrunk to 25-40 on weekdays and 40-60 on Saturdays. But it it still about 50% more than Babylon on the corresponding days. Since you already have a partner, this should not be of great concern.

Also note that the couples I have seen in World many times were all mature ones, whereas the couple I saw once at Babylon were young. As mentioned by another writer in the Babylon thread the girl there did walk around naked, and looked pretty such that, for a while, I thought she was a WG and almost approached her!

As promised, here is some perspective from other parts of the globe.

In AP I've been to most of the main countries. They all have different sex rules and laws so the scene is decidedly different in each. Let's start with Thailand. Last visit was two years ago but I don't think it's changed much. My exposure is Bangkok and Phuket. Bangkok of course is the most developed venue so let's focus there.

First of all prostitution in Thailand is theoretically illegal and yet it is clearly not enforced. In fact one of the funniest things is when you check in at the hotel they give you this little card that says "If you bring a girl back to the room overnight, she is not entitled to the free breakfast. " But it's illegal of course. Not! LOL.

There of course are many different places to get P4 P but let's talk the fish bowl and the Gogos. The fish bowl is a uniquely Asian concept found in several countries. Usually fronted as a large masage place there is no doubt what goes on here — and it is unique!

When you come in, sometimes with a lounge area where you can have a whiskey while you ogle the girls. All the girls are behind a big pane of glass and wearing numbers. No I am not kidding. You literally are window shopping and when you decide you say "I want number 325" and off you go! Pro tip — if they have any tits at all they will show cleavage. High neck dress means flat as a board. Not that there's anything wrong with that. My little flat chested Japanese pixie about fucked my dick off.

The other go to venue is the Gogos. Some guys don't like it but I totally love it. If you go to Soi Cowboy or Nana Plaza there will literally be 20+ bars and Gogos with ten girls outside trying to get you to come inside and inside another 20+ girls doing the Bangkok shuffle in various states of undress and hoping you will take them home. They too generally wear numbers.

Buy a lady drink or two to establish some cuddle / grope time and check out the chemistry. Then pick your poison, agree the price pay the bar fine and off you go. Mileage can vary quite a bit. Clearly you will get suck and fuck with BBBJ a coin toss. Most guys say discuss specifics up front before you agree price. This is similar to FKK advice. Price will likely be $50-75 for short time or twice that for overnight. At the hotel the girl will have to check in at the desk and leave her ID with the clerk. This is intimidating first time, but It's all very legit despite being illegal. LOL.

Now my intent tonight was to write about all the different countries but as I write the first one, I find there are so many good details to share. Let me summarize Korea and Taiwan quickly -- do not go there for P4 P. Tough nut for foreigners to crack. I managed a happy ending in Korea but was able to crack the Taiwan nut more effectively. I will do an FR on that. In the meantime I promised a Shanghai FR so that is up next.

So China and Shanghai are very interesting. A few years ago it had a great scene. But as they have tried to emerge as a world power, they are trying to clean up their P4 P scene. Someone needs to tell them the Germans are a world power and have great P4 P -- don't be lame US wannabe Puritans -- follow the Germans and their world-beatin FKK philosophy!

But so much for dreaming. They have shut down all the saunas (FKK like) and anything remaining has moved underground and seedy. Fortunately there are two good places left to get P4 P and that is Judy's and Manhattan. These are competing bars about two blocks apart -- same format -- a zillion awesome looking Vietnamese girls who all want to fuck you for money. It is quite the experience for most guys, me included. You go in and 40 girls have eyes on you and several will approach and try to seduce you. Enclosed is the FR from our second night. We did hotties from Judy's our first night. Damage tends to be $200 short time and $400 overnight. (P.S. Get used to seeing high prices in my AP FRs -- Germany, Thailand and Brazil are all sub $100 venues. Everywhere else I've been its $200/ HR and up.).

My wingman Chris and I get out on the town around 915 tonight and head to the Blind Pig for late dinner. You really must try their truffle Mac and cheese. Very very good. Tonight we think we'll just head straight to Manhattan. We just prefer the vibe and it's less loud. The plan is to try to hold out as long as possible and prolong the buffet experience, which is like no other.

We roll into Manhattan around 1030 and of course their are 40+ Viet hotties to choose from. To my taste, Manhattan has a better line up than Judy's. And WOW what a lot of great choices.

We are given half a table near the front (the other seat taken by a Chinese guy with his nose in his phone — what the fuck is wrong with you dude? And we survey the action. I am pretty tall and especially by AP standards so I can scan pretty much the whole room. There are easily 20 girls I would take. But my mission tonight is to find one tall enough to DFK while in Mish.

I get just a glimpse of one who is one table over but something about her face lights me up. So I keep glancing over but she is always obscured by her petite friend. Chris meanwhile has his eye on the friend. I don't know how he knew just from a tiny bit of profile but he says "She's the one".

He catches my girls eye and the two girls come over — they are friends. Somehow they know who goes with whom and we very quickly pair up. I love the look of my girl but I must say Chris's girl is a full on 10 in the face. And so petite — she is maybe 5"1 in 5" heels! What a cutie. And I love my girl so it looks like a plan. And she's tall enough that the Mish-kissing mission is likely to be successful.

My girl asks me what I like to do in the room and since she asked I say I like kissing and having my balls licked. She says "I can do that. I will do whatever you want!" OK works for me! Off we go.

Up in the room it is interesting. I've read other reports about girls who need warming up, but never quite experienced it. Liang is this kind of girl. At the room we are face to face and I go to kiss her and I get kind of the corner of her mouth. Huh?

We shower separately and when I get out she is under the covers. I kind of pull her out and on top of me. Again we are face to face and its a little peck. I think WTF? Oh no.

But wait. There's more.

She starts working her way down to a very nice and satisfying BBBJ. She tries to go a little short on it but I ask her to keep going and she complies. But eventually she wants to get me inside her to which I do not object.

She climbs on cowgirl and is really tight. I only go about halfway in, but with a little in and out she relaxes and I go balls deep. Nice! We do CG for a while (I could CG forever- its pleasant but I am not going to cum) and she now really WANTS me.

She pulls me towards her to a seated position while still fully inside her and then fully over to mish. Haven't done that little trick since college and it feels good to know I still can. And Mish is GREAT. She is very worked up by now and starts kissing me passionately. And I mean real fuck-me-baby kisses. I mean wow. I had never transformed a girl like this before and it felt awesome — both the fucking and kissing, but also just knowing I had made her sexually ravenous. It was intoxicating.

Well the Mish-kissing-and-pounding is just fabulous. She is eating me alive and I am wearing a $5 Okamoto 01 (tho I find it similar to 02 in feeling) and after enjoying it immensely I let er rip. Wow. Feels great. Well she is not done. She encourages me to continue to fuck her hard for another 5 minutes — clearly for her own pleasure at this point. And when she is done she breaks into a great smile that seems genuinely happy. Sigh. I done good!

We exchange WeChat and some brief hugs and then a final passionate DFK when she heads out. Chris has finished same time so he drops over and compares notes. His girl was great too. And we plot to go out again — the night is young and we can sleep in. Continued in part two.

Steve 9696,

Awesome field reports, very informative as well as well written.

Thank you very much! Even though I might get jealous of your luck to have so much fun experiences, please keep on doing them and keep on FRs coming. 😄😄

[QUOTE=MrHo;2304636]For me, as long as they look beautiful, it is all good, rest is up to me and cash to bring out the performance from her. Most girls are nice in FKK with my experience. I can only count with one hand the session that was not good enough for me, but with those girls I had to cut the session at 30 min, but I still make sure I cum by hardcore doggy banging.[/QUOTE]You are able or not to make girls being nice for You, but not enough. At LR, a pretty face who was my first LR 2019, came again many times after our 1h30 discovery, but despite her pretty face, smiling, kissing, doing her best, really lovely, but real lack of sensuality, so not interesting for love in bed. I think she understood if they talked about me with her fire in bed friend. Hardcore banging depend on your size if you don't want to kill girls, I m not interested, I prefer love in bed and repeat with same girl when she is good for me. In 60/70's, it was sex drug and rock and roll and Janice, Jimi and Jim died at only 27, Kurt Cobain in 90's also at 27, for me this is sport, adrenaline and pleasure, also listening rock music and at double age, I still improve for free ride and my climbing times every summer. Heard a funny song at LR "don t want a small dick man" , laughed with a girl about, was happy fire in bed told me I was not too big for her, among so many small pussies.

Will April be a bad time for a FKK holiday because of the orthodox Easter? Or girls will be present anyway? Some of you have experience about this period?

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2304904]You are able or not to make girls being nice for You, but not enough. At LR, a pretty face who was my first LR 2019, came again many times after our 1h30 discovery, but despite her pretty face, smiling, kissing, doing her best, really lovely, but real lack of sensuality, so not interesting for love in bed. I think she understood if they talked about me with her fire in bed friend. Hardcore banging depend on your size if you don't want to kill girls, I m not interested, I prefer love in bed and repeat with same girl when she is good for me. In 60/70's, it was sex drug and rock and roll and Janice, Jimi and Jim died at only 27, Kurt Cobain in 90's also at 27, for me this is sport, adrenaline and pleasure, also listening rock music and at double age, I still improve for free ride and my climbing times every summer. Heard a funny song at LR "don t want a small dick man" , laughed with a girl about, was happy fire in bed told me I was not too big for her, among so many small pussies.[/QUOTE]Yes Sir, but I am in brothel, so I do not want to try too hard to make girls being nice for me LOL, it is more like their job because I pay, but I am nice and polite to them though like I am nice and polite in any shops till someone [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] me off, then I turn my king dick switch on LOL. I do agree that not just money, but being nice and looking clean can take you far in FKK, but money more LOL and I pay, so I do not want to try so hard in FKK, it is brothel.

I was never fun of LR beside service is outstandingly good for all girls I went in living room comparison to other FKK, but stunner level in line up is quite limited in living room. I liked Rose, I think that was her name for exotic sector of my taste with fit spot body, I originally thought she is half white, and half something since she is bit tanned, but she turns out to be Hungarian and no bullshit that she is Hungarian, she served my exotic lust area. I also remember two blonde, natural blonde Romanians there, one with very nice natural tit, but I do not remember their name. However, it is hard to find stunner girls in Living room, I can still count girls I went with in living room because I spend most of day waiting till stunner walks in to begin her day.

Nirvana, I have not heard that name for long time, I used to listen to Nirvana a lot, but not recently actually, I like them a lot, but I was and I am more of Guns and roses guy, I still listen to paradise city in my airplane heading to German FKK trip sometimes among others. Maybe paradise city and welcome to the jungle fit FKK scene a bit LOL. Or very bizarre odd song, but my world by gnr is more like FKK. I kind of like listening to classic music going to FKK though, it somehow put me in hmmm beauty mood LOL if that is right way to putting it.

Well Jimi died because he too heroin, nobody does that thing anymore, I do not even drink, but I do smoke legal herbs, and I love fucking on that mixed with cialis LOL, I love dick on steroid it make me cum more stronger somehow because it is harder to cum with that thing, but with THC, it intensify orgasm, the problem is going back to my hotel stoned LOL, it is very hard thing to do like climbing everlast or Himalaya when you are stoned and trying to find way home LOL.

FKK trips is big like sport for me too because I do 3 rooms to 5 rooms now, when I was in my late 20's and early 30's, it was more like 5 to 7 room, all with cum every day for 10 days and my max was 14 days everyday FKK, but now 5 room all with cum is max I can do due to my physical capability, but this is everyday for 5 straight days, so it is bit like sport for me too. Though, mentally, I do it to collect good sexual memories that echoes in eternity. And it is great because every year, there always are new young beautiful girls for us mongers to fuck! Isn't monger life great? LOL.

So here is the scoop on Taipei. As I mentioned a very tough nut to crack. Prostitution is illegal and overtly shut down tight. There is an active underworld- and you cannot break through the underworld barrier without a Line contact. (Line is WhatsApp for Japan). I can provide a contact to senior members. Even though the below is not full sex by choice, it was an EPIC time. And my girl offered FS for an extra $140, but I was too tired to work that hard! Read on for a blast of an evening and at a good price for AP.

So we recently finished our little Shanghai jaunt and are ready for Taipei. Let me tell you Taipei is a tough nut to crack. Many thanks to a new forum buddy for a Line broker hookup. We would have been lost without this.

We were after KTV but with some extras. So we started corresponding with our Line contact about 3 weeks ago. He was very helpful in explaining the options. They range from a uniform shop with C class girls but very hands on to a dress shop with A class girls but no hanky panky for the most part. After a lot of dialog and enduring several rounds of upsell we settled on a very reasonably priced uniform shop with happy ending standard (even though it turned out the girls were wearing gowns / dresses).

This turned out to be a great choice. Day of the visit we got the exact location and final pricing. It is definitely a little intimidating if you don't know what to expect. When you arrive at this office building there is a desk with a couple rough looking characters (think low brow yakuza) and security monitors. You tell them xxx sent you and they call up on the walkie talkie for clearance.

When you arrive on the appropriate floor there is still plenty of muscle around and you are led to your room. Think of a hotel but with tiny Karaoke rooms behind each door. Lots of guys scurrying around and some girls in dresses getting lined up.

The waiter dude set up a plate of fruit and a six pack of beer. The beers are a very reasonably priced NTD140 per can which is great because we go through a couple or three six packs. You have little glasses a bit bigger than a shot and you drink it on ice. Your glass is NEVER empty regardless of how fast you empty it!

So they send in the first six girls. This is indeed a C class lineup but we knew that going in. Older and chubbier than any of us wanted so we send them away. Line up two is marginally better with one slim girl who is massively tatted up. Maybe a bit too rough. Bring on lineup number three!

I am thinking we can't just keep sending them away we will run out soon. And there is one reasonably pretty girl with a nice CCup chest that I am guessing is real (good guess!) so I say I will take her. She makes a truly terrible face when she realizes I speak no Chinese and I think OMG I am going to have a sad girl on my hands. Couldn't be further from the truth it turns out.

Chris and Tony both pick girls from the next lineup and it's off to the races. Tony's girl has the prettiest face (Viet) mine the best rack, and Chris gets none of the above. But she is a spitfire party girl who is a ton of fun. All great choices in their own way.

At this point I should mention that Chris is a buddy but Tony is a business partner so the idea of getting joint public handjobs is a bit weird. But when in Rome.

So we start drinking and singing and having a generally great time. If you've never done KTV it sounds lame but turns out to be a ton of fun even without the handjob! About 15 minutes in there is some signal and it's lap dance time. The girls take off our shirts and their dresses and it's very much like your standard US lap dance with plenty of hands on allowed. Funny thing is one girl has a whistle and every three minutes she blows it and they all rotate one guy to the right! So you get to sample each girl twice.

At one point a guy sticks his head in the room says something and all of a sudden everyone is in a rush to put on their clothes. I thought it was a raid or something but it turns out it is just part of the process. They will come off again later. I guess we set up a special deal because we are booked for three hours but the format is made for two. So we delay the handjob till the third hour.

My girl has spectacular top ten tits and insists on me having my hands on them 24/7. Ok baby not a problem. Hands on. Except when she wants me to touch her pussy through her panties, which is a nice extra only I seem to be getting. My girl is a ton of fun. Even yelling out "Fack me baby" a few times. Hey You do know English. At least the important words.

Some time in hour three as Chris and Tony are belting out some Chinese ballad, my girl gets my pants and tighty whiteys down around my ankles. I had noticed earlier three paper cups and some liquid and thought It might be shots. But it turns out to be some sort of lubricant that she dips her hand in and does her magic. The guys continue to sing on, oblivious to the half naked dude getting a handjob just a few feet away!

It is a good thing I got a five minute head start because I am a little harder to finish. The other girls join in their business, each with their own style. Chris's girl straddles him and dry humps him to a finish with her hand inside his pants. I think I was the only pants-on-the-floor guy but who's counting.

My girl finally figures out that the one hand jacking is not going to do it. But not long after she engages both hands and integrates some great ball action do we get a very happy ending. Both other guys finish quickly.

We are certainly not done with the fun and do another 30-40 minutes of Karaoke. The beer has socially lubricated everyone and we dance and party like maniacs till the time runs out. Final damage was USD $550 for 3 hours for all three guys, beer and handjobs all around! What a great bargain! All three of us were on cloud 9. Highly recommend.

Yes Taipei is a hard but to crack. But totally worth cracking. Senior members feel free to PM me for line contact.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2303898] Now if a woman can convince us that she is way too good for us but that she has to fuck us anyway, that is a special feeling! I suspect that is why so many girls in Europe play the princess, and why so many guys fall for them. Following this line of reasoning, it is the man with an inferiority complex who stands to gain the most pleasure from sex because to him nearly every woman is a goddess compared to his own unworthy self. He is the lucky masochist.

Personally I don't go for the princess type as a rule. I see too many girls putting on airs whose looks and intelligence clearly do not justify it, so it ends up seeming like a crass bluff. But I feel enough to understand the impulse in other guys.[/QUOTE]Probably. But there is a limit to everything. A guy only wants to be teased like this up to a certain point. Probably much like a woman only wants to get spanked up to a certain point as well. In both cases, if taken too far, it is worse than nothing at all.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2305043]Probably. But there is a limit to everything. A guy only wants to be teased like this up to a certain point. Probably much like a woman only wants to get spanked up to a certain point as well. In both cases, if taken too far, it is worse than nothing at all.[/QUOTE]Yeah, for many guys that certain point is way too far and they seems to take all the shit their wife throw at him LOL.

And such wife has been fucked without such hassle while she was much younger and better looking is the most ironic part of all.

Being monger, we get to fuck girls at their prime and leave them for husband to take care of them for rest of older years LOL.

Mongers can do the simple math and are able to see things in long term.

Uber is now back in Frankfurt and Dusseldorf. Fares however are not much cheaper than taxis. A ride from Sharks to the airport costs 40 euro on Friday at 5 pm. From Dusseldorf airport to Living Room, it's 25 euro.

Much like London, which I thought sucked till I found the breakthrough, Tokyo does NOT cater to foreigners (gaijin) for the most part. But once you have the secret decoder ring it's super easy. (But expensive).

Paying for vaginal sex is illegal in Japan, but blowjob and anal are fair game and perfectly legal (go figure) l. That said it is understood that a "soapy" and virtually all outcalls will provide FS. Unfortunately neither of these options are great for Gaijin.

A soapy is a great concept (more on this later) but in practice you pay a lot of money ($400+) and are shown pictures of girls only to find the real girl is ten years older and 20 pounds heavier than the picture. Other than Japanese dudes, I hear maybe 1 out of 10 reports are positive. Yikes. Don't do it.

For outcall, if you use Nasty Dolls or Asian Mystique you are more likely to get an OK to good experience. Still 50% or more likely to be "off" of expectations.

So now you are saying "why bother?" Well, because I found the gold nugget. (Not affiliated in any way!) and that is Tokyo Hentai Club [URL]www.hentaitokyo.com[/URL]. Me and my buddies have seen 10+ girls there and without exception they are gorgeous, look like their pictures; and perform well. Note that FS is not officially on offer but YMMV. PM me for details.

The experience itself is really worth it anyhow. You go to a little tiny office and checkin, pick your girl and pay. There is literally a paper menu you fill out would you like Cum in Mouth sir? Please check the box! Then when the girls arrive at the appointed time you walk to the "love hotel" and get a room (an experience all by itself) and have a great time.

Whereas I was convinced THC was absolutely the top Japanese experience I was proven wrong on a recent trip. THC has a sister soapy called Paradise soapy.

[URL]https://paradise-inn.net/[/URL]

And wow, a proper soapy is an experience not to be missed. My new favorite format. Rather than describing it generically I will post an FR with June who is a doll.

I will also post an FR on THC girl Sumire since it's a very different experience.

PS If u are enjoying these reports from ROW please give me a thumbs up. I have plenty of more info, but don’t want to bore you guys if it is not of interest. Will post June and Sumire regardless to finish out AP. Next is AU/CH followed by London (in near real time!)

Am I the only one who is bothered by the word Monger? A monger is someone who trades in and sells something. NOT someone who is a customer. A monger sells things to customers. A pimp is a monger, actually. But none of us are mongers, if we are to use the word properly (unless you are a pimp reading this LOL). Where the hell did the corruption of this word start and why do we propagate it?

I personally am an "enthusiast" — sex enthusiast, female enthusiast, encounter enthusiast. Anyone have a better word than monger? I am going to stick to enthusiast until you guys give me a better alternative.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2305398] .
Whereas I was convinced THC was absolutely the top Japanese experience I was proven wrong on a recent trip. THC has a sister soapy called Paradise soapy.

[URL]https://paradise-inn.net/[/URL]
[/QUOTE]As-salāmu ʿalaykum Steve.

How much did you have to pay at these places? To avoid being treated like a gaijin? Probably a mint, right? And I guess communication is a problem if the girls don't speak English?

Would like to get Mr Ho's feedback on why he thinks all this is lame compared to the FKK scene.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2305398]
PS If u are enjoying these reports from ROW please give me a thumbs up.[/QUOTE][NOPARSE]👍

Even though this is the FKK thread, I think FKK-land is in such decline that it helps to remind people that a bigger world exists out there. At this stage an FKK should be viewed as a halfway house for guys on parole from Sex Prison. A gateway drug to better things.[/NOPARSE]

[I]"Knock on the sky and listen to the sound!"[/I]

[NOPARSE]👳
[/NOPARSE]

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2305434]As-salāmu ʿalaykum Steve.

How much did you have to pay at these places? To avoid being treated like a gaijin? Probably a mint, right? And I guess communication is a problem if the girls don't speak English?

Would like to get Mr Ho's feedback on why he thinks all this is lame compared to the FKK scene.

[NOPARSE]👍

Even though this is the FKK thread, I think FKK-land is in such decline that it helps to remind people that a bigger world exists out there. At this stage an FKK should be viewed as a halfway house for guys on parole from Sex Prison. A gateway drug to better things.[/NOPARSE]

[I]"Knock on the sky and listen to the sound!"[/I]

[NOPARSE]👳
[/NOPARSE][/QUOTE]So if the distinguished Mr Ho says Japan sucks I will totally agree with him -- Except for the gems that are THC and Paradise.

As to pricing, THC has silver, gold, and diamond girls at $US 200,230, and $270/ HR respectively. It is $30 to CIM, which includes BBBJ throughout. There is no negotiation or guessing. It is all on their website. It is kind of fun to peruse as they have pictures of the lovely Anju acting out what CIM means for example! Or what a denma is. Just go to their prices page and scroll down a bit to see the options. I always get a diamond plus CIM so it's $300. www.hentaitokyo.com

Paradise is priced similarly, but to get "mat play" -- see upcoming report -- you need to book 90 minutes. That is $400 US.

So high by German FKK standards, low by Aphrodisia and US benchmarks and about spot on with Globe.

Oh and as to being treated like a whitey, THC and Paradise have a niche. They allow ONLY foreigners -- no Japanese allowed. You do have to show an ID of some sort but it's just a cursory check that you are not a Japanese citizen. The entire experience, including their web chat, which is awesome, is built around English speaking foreigners.

This last trip I spent time with Natasha, Sumire, Honey, and Hitomi at THC. They were all lovely in their own way. Sumire the most experienced lover, Honey the prettiest (top5 worldwide for me), Hitomi the wettest, and Natasha a great all around win in all departments. I can post the rest later when you tire of AU / CH and London, but for now, let me just give you a taste with the lovely Sumire. P.S. You can see any of these girls including faces on their website. Most have a Tumblr account linked at the bottom of their profile where you see unretouched selfies. Very spot on. No bait and switch.

So our intrepid travelers were last seen in Paradise — fully satisfied. Who could ask for more? Not Chris — he is good for the day. But old Steve the horndog thinks he might go one more round. I'the been itching to try Lisa who is a lovely Blasian mix. But when we chat up Lyle at THC he says she can be a bit flaky on schedule and to avoid disappointment I might choose someone else. (The THC handlers are great. They are all Phillipino so they speak great English). Actually this leads to an interesting conversation about the girls and their schedules. Most have some other job as well — nurse, perfume clerk were a few he named. He knows them all like sisters, which makes him very good at his job.

It's for the best that Lisa might not work anyhow because I realize I am going to need a real pro on round 2 — so looks need to come secondary — I need service with a capital S. I ask Lyle to recommend top BJ girls and he cuts my list from 8 down to three. In the end I choose Sumire, who at age 30 has probably honed her craft. (Yep, got that right!) There is just something cute about her.

[URL]https://hentaitokyo.com/profile?cc=74[/URL]

So I pay up and set the date for later that night (the usual 30000 Y for a diamond CIM hour). Chris and I go to the Korean barbecue about a block away. Super epic beef. OMG it was awesome. And then to the Dubliner for warm up drinks. Jack and Coke. Of course. The Dubliner is literally 50 feet from THC Shibuya. So as the Blind Pig is to Manhattan in Shanghai so is the Dubliner to THC Shibuya.

About 5 minutes before the appointment I head over and wait a few for Sumire. I am pleasantly surprised. She is very attractive but in a lady-like way not like someone early 20's. She is wearing a business wool coat and suit outfit with a high end purse — very classy. Think of doing the hot executive secretary and you've got Sumire. And unlike other girls who tend to walk maybe side by side with you to the hotel, she takes my arm and leans into me. Great indicator of the strong GFE to come.

It is a super busy night and we go to 5 different Love Hotels before we find a vacancy. And even then we have to get a deluxe suite at 7000 Y to secure a room. The room is in fact very nice with whirlpool tub with color changing lights and even a mini rubber dinghy if you wanted to go there. Even has a terrace, but we did not make use of it.

Whereas some girls want to head right to the showers, Sumire launches in to kissing me full on fully clothed. I really like this as it's more realistic as you jointly shed clothes. She's a good kisser and I really enjoy this part, including unclipping her bra like you are on a first date. Now it gets a little interesting.

She produces the menu from THC and confirms I want CIM but asks if there is anything else I want. I decline. Well she is a determined girl. She starts kissing down my naked body and takes my hard dick and positions it just in front of her lips but not touching. She then takes the head and slides it in a circle around her mouth careful to not touch her lips. "Are you sure you don't want the instant blowjob?" (BJ without showering first = +3000 Y) Well shit no. Not now. I am no longer sure of anything except I want my cock in your mouth. So yes ma'am. Please I'll have the instant BJ, please. LOL.

This minor upsell is a little unfair, but I asked for a pro and I got one. This is all worth it in the end.

Clearly at this point the instant BJ is not going to make me cum but it's a great job and I am well warmed up. Off to the bath. She has cleverly already made a bubble bath and puts me in the jacuzzi as she prepares her version of mat play without the mat. After a nice soak she puts me on the little stool and gives every inch of me a thorough cleaning. She does some mat-like tricks like straddling your arm and sliding her pussy all the way down from shoulder to wrist. It is not Paradise, but it is by far the best bath prep I received this year at THC.

After bath prep it's off to the bed. To be honest I can recall all the details — my eight girls this week are blending together a bit in a Jack and Coke haze. But here are some highlights.

1. Her pussy is ridiculously tight, particularly for a thirty year old. When she was blowing me and I stick my index finger in it didn't go quite all the way. She did like 25 pussy clenches on it in rapid succession and eventually it went in but holy cow it is tight and she can pussy clench like no ones business.

2. She must have done something right. I extended to 90 minutes.

3. First time ever got a bit of a Japanese AV star move. About 75 minutes in I blow my stack thanks to very impressive BJ skills. She keeps it in her mouth and then on her knees looking right at me, she puts her hand under her chin and let's all my cum drool down her lips and pool in her hand. Wow. Don't see that everyday!

Great attentive finishing shower and the walk back and Steve has one more experience in the rear view mirror.

High recommend on Sumire if you want a great GFE with a bit of PSE thrown in for good measure. Had a whale of a time! Would repeat.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2305441]So if the distinguished Mr Ho says Japan sucks I will totally agree with him -- Except for the gems that are THC and Paradise.

As to pricing, THC has silver, gold, and diamond girls at $US 200,230, and $270/ HR respectively. It is $30 to CIM, which includes BBBJ throughout. There is no negotiation or guessing. It is all on their website. It is kind of fun to peruse as they have pictures of the lovely Anju acting out what CIM means for example! Or what a denma is. Just go to their prices page and scroll down a bit to see the options. I always get a diamond plus CIM so it's $300. www.hentaitokyo.com

Paradise is priced similarly, but to get "mat play" -- see upcoming report -- you need to book 90 minutes. That is $400 US.

So high by German FKK standards, low by Aphrodisia and US benchmarks and about spot on with Globe.

Oh and as to being treated like a whitey, THC and Paradise have a niche. They allow ONLY foreigners -- no Japanese allowed. You do have to show an ID of some sort but it's just a cursory check that you are not a Japanese citizen. The entire experience, including their web chat, which is awesome, is built around English speaking foreigners.[/QUOTE]Polayrist and Steve. Japan is good if you know your way around and if you like beautiful Asian girls. It is depending on ones taste.

I tend to like more European girls, so for my taste, I had and have great time here in Tokyo with so called Eurasian girls who are half white and half Japanese. I had privileged to enjoy girls like Maria Ozawa and Rola Takizawa and as for Rola, I had her before she went onto porn industry when she was still 19 years old, I did her bareback for about 10 months. However, Eurasian girls are quite hard to find here and I only do few per year, when they come up on the scene while they are on the scene. For Maria Ozawa, I did her during her prime in 2008, so it was expensive, 150000 yen for 70 min (about 1500 USD) and Rola was about 50000 yen (500 usd) for 90 min.

In Japan, prostitution is illegal, but in the law, it only prohibit sexual intercourse and that with legal definition is penetration of penis into pussy, but one can get around that and you can kind of say police only do bust sometimes, if such incident of penetration occur. Yes, it sound funny and odd, but it is how it is with the law here.

On the other hand, all type of sexual services are on table with various style, and many options are available too like dressing them up as high school girls, stewardess, swimming costume, high school uniforms etc. And legally anal penetration is not consider illegal because it is not sex legally, so if girls offer it, anal is like plus 10000 yen (about 100 usd).

In bigger picture to simplify it, there is type of brothel called soap land, it is like a bath house where girls wash you in enclosed Japanese style bath room and then fuck you, at this type of enterprise, you can penetrate. And another style of mongering here is delivery health, which is like escort service and you cannot penetrate with this service on surface, but in reality, many girls let you penetrate for free if you are lucky, if not with 10000 to 20000 yen extra which is like 100 usd to 200 usd more.

What I do is that, I tend to like delivery health because you get fresh normal girls new to the industry like 18,19 years old, which is legal age to work in mongering industry here, so they are still nice and naive, so I do sexual play called sumata, which is sliding bareback penis on pussy and I just slide it inside LOL. It works most of time.

For both soap land and delivery health, I would say for good looking girls, the rate begin at about 50000 yen (about 500 usd) and sky is limit.

The down side is that, many establishments are not open to foreign visitors, so one may face some problem getting good looking girls. This is due to language ability of girls and some clients treating girls rough etc. , but this is slowly changing because the industry realize the possible big profit to cater girls to foreign visitors, so now some of the establishment begin to have English sites.

For Eurasian girls lover like me, when it is good, it is really good because I get girls like Rola Takizawa or Maria Ozawa etc. , or even more beautiful normal Eurasian girls who are not porn stars, but when it is bad, I do not find any good looking Eurasian girls at all, so it is bad as desert LOL. However, I also like model type Asian girls over 170 cm with beautiful structured small face, so I do fine.

But comparison to German FKK where you can see like 40 girls minimum and sometimes almost 100 girls all nude in real life front of you before you choose who to go, it is not good here.

I would say for service, once you managed to get the penetration part sorted with girl, then service often are really good like you can usually cum many time as you want within given time, mostly all are included like DFK, rimming, BBBJ, DATY, cum in mouth, cum on tit etc. (no anal), and often if penetration part is sorted, then it is bareback.

In conclusion, if you like more elegant looking Asian girls, come to Japan, if not it is better off going to Thailand or Philippines because it is much cheaper there, you can choose girls front of you and also you can go bareback easily there. Either way, I like Eurasian girls, so anywhere I go in Asia including here in Tokyo, I am always searching for Eurasian girls that is hard to find and also even in German FKK, I am always searching for girls, I guess my taste is getting higher and higher for me to able to fuck them LOL, it is hard knock life for choosy monger like me LOL!

Hi gang,

Planning to spend one Saturday night this June in the Dusseldorf area (can go anywhere). Looking to maximize my chances for a young, natural beauty.

Been to World in its 2013 heyday, and Oase last year, so that's my benchmark.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions / rankings!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2305446]This last trip I spent time with Natasha, Sumire, Honey, and Hitomi at THC. They were all lovely in their own way. Sumire the most experienced lover, Honey the prettiest (top5 worldwide for me), Hitomi the wettest, and Natasha a great all around win in all departments. I can post the rest later when you tire of AU / CH and London, but for now, let me just give you a taste with the lovely Sumire. P.S. You can see any of these girls including faces on their website. Most have a Tumblr account linked at the bottom of their profile where you see unretouched selfies. Very spot on. No bait and switch.

So our intrepid travelers were last seen in Paradise fully satisfied. Who could ask for more? Not Chris he is good for the day. But old Steve the horndog thinks he might go one more round. I'the been itching to try Lisa who is a lovely Blasian mix. But when we chat up Lyle at THC he says she can be a bit flaky on schedule and to avoid disappointment I might choose someone else. (The THC handlers are great. They are all Phillipino so they speak great English). Actually this leads to an interesting conversation about the girls and their schedules. Most have some other job as well nurse, perfume clerk were a few he named. He knows them all like sisters, which makes him very good at his job..[/QUOTE]Steve,

I really enjoy reading your reports! It's not Germany related but better than all this who needs therapy, who's addicted, who thinks they have reverend pimp daddy skills but still has to pay the girls. Socially awkward, makes the girls sticky wet while searching for woman behavior but in reality the girls who tolerate him for his money.

Keep providing great trip reports!

Steve. I love your reports.I await the one on "mat play' And Mr Ho many many thanks for the overview. I am working on demystifying the Japan scene for my next visit as I have a heart fluttering penchant for Japanese cuteness. But learning enough language to read websites and make telephone calls is a big ask (I want to avoid the foreigner only options but that will be my fallback). But maybe the prices are beyond my pocket so I will have to settle for Germany :(

So Tokyo Hentai has a sister club that is a legitimate soapy. It's in Kawasaki, which I thought was far but it's not. It's just one subway stop from Shinigawa. So super easy to get to. It has earlier hours than THC and closes earlier so it's a great daytime option.

Since we planned to do THC again late night we wanted to go early enough to Paradise to recover but ended up having to go at 1:45 to get the girls we wanted. This was OK though because we had awesome gyoza and ramen beforehand. I settled on their number 3 girl June and Chris took their number 1 Sophia.

Sophia.

[URL]https://paradise-inn.net/profile?cc=59[/URL]

June.

[URL]https://paradise-inn.net/profile?cc=42[/URL]

They were both OUTSTANDING! Our new favorite club!

Paradise, being a full on soapy, includes FS in the price. This is really nice but believe me you will go here for the mat play. You have to get 90 minutes to do mat play. DO IT. You will never be the same. You will save all your pennies to go to Paradise.

When you arrive, the great English speaking handlers will take your order (42000 Y for 90 minutes) and settle you in the waiting room with a coke or water. Soon enough it is time for the reveal. I am escorted to a curtain at the bottom of the stairs and when it opens there is June at the top. Nice. (Chris reports Sophia was kneeling and bowing which was a nice touch).

I would say June is just a shade less cute than her pictures. Eyes not quite that big but still very pretty and with a bangin body if you like slim girls. She is super tiny with a tight stomach and toned abs. But her bubbly personality overall is the main attraction. What a sweetheart. And wait till you get to mat play. Gods gift to man.

In the room I undress and she gets the shower ready. The rooms are a little older but very adequate for the purpose and quite spacious with bed, soaking tub and a large open area for mat play.

Those that have been to a soapy before will recognize the routine but I will recount it here for newbies. First she sits you on a special U shaped stool. Your butt cheeks go on the two ends of the U and that leaves your junk and butt open for easy access. And access she does!

She soaps up my junk and all the way round to the far back. And puts the handheld shower all the way under. You will have the cleanest crack and ball sack ever! Plus it's super sexy. Paradise is all about service. You will feel like a king.

Now it is time for me to tub-soak while she prepares the mat. Mat is really a misnomer. In much of AP they call it the rubber dingy and that is way more accurate. It is a huge queen size inflatable that is really thick and shaped slightly concave to keep all the slippery goo inside.

The prep itself is kinda sexy to watch. She mixes up a bowl of Nuru gel which is the goddamn slipperiest stuff you've ever encountered. It's made from seaweed so it's all natural, which is good, because pretty soon June is going to be licking every inch of my body! She then spreads it liberally on the raft and starts sliding her naked body all over it to spread it around. I have plenty of nice visuals filed away on this!

When the mat is prepped, June comes to get me and leads me by hand onto the mat. This is required as otherwise I'd bust my ass, but also very sweet. On the mat face down it is the most sublime experience ever. Your cock is running against the slippery mat as she rides up and down your legs. She hooks a foot under and suddenly she's stroking my balls. She is licking me everywhere. It is just a cacophony of sensations. A body symphony. And that is face down!

After a while there is "the flip" where in a massage place is the signal for fun to start. Not here. You are nearly spent from sensory overload at the time of the flip. But yet it goes on. Some quality sliding. A bunch of DFK and then she puts a towel under my butt to keep me in place as she fucks the hell out of me.

(FWIW Chris has done mat play a bunch of other places and he said his experience here was way over the top better than anywhere else).

And fuck the hell out of me she did. She did a bunch of nice BBBJ and then put on the condom with her mouth always a nice pro touch and began to ride. Let me tell you, early on she confesses "I am a very horny girl" and she was not lying. I thought about trying to hold out but there was no prayer of that with her sexy moaning and riding like a blue-ribbon cowgirl! So I have an epic shot while on the mat.

Of course we are not done. She gives me virtually no rest time and starts playing with my dick again. She is a very conscientious girl and asks to make sure it is not too ticklish. I say no and on she goes. More stroking and BBBJ then move to the bed with me hard again. (The 90 minutes course is clearly set up for a shot on the mat and one on the bed).

We cuddle a bit but then get at it again. We do mish and cowgirl and doggie. With a lot of super nice DFK. As well I do some very nice DATY with her very responsive with a tight little knob you can easily locate and work. I do quite a bit of finger fucking as well with index inside curled up and thumb driving across the button. She seems to quite enjoy this. No earthshaking orgasm like Natasha, but a fun time was had by all!

She returns to hand work and BJ to try to seal the deal, but as my fifth girl of the week and second shot in 75 minutes, it does not happen. Nonetheless she is a trooper right up to the bell. What a great girl.

We kiss and shower and off I go to my next adventure. On the way out they have a rating form (they are sooooo good at customer service) and I give June top marks. Chris had a top of the world experience with Sophia as well. So much so we decide to swap girls the next day. But that is a story for tomorrow. Plus I have one more hottie to do before then. Stay tuned.

Highest recommendation possible for Paradise, June and Sophia (in that order). A new favorite top worldwide venue!

Optimist et al: Save your pennies and put mat play at Paradise (specifically Paradise not any random soapy) on your bucket list. You really must try this before going to the big FKK in the sky. I put the mat play with June in the top five in all my experiences. Probably number three after Thifany my Brazilian girlfriend for a week, and the life changing Cambria and Kendall duo in London. Mighty fine company to be in!

PS I forgot to comment but Japanese girls are generally a whole different experience from girls elsewhere. There is still a culture of deference and submission with the man being king. It comes through the whole time in the experience that it is not quite mutual — she is there to serve you. Of course one can argue it should be this way everywhere and certainly with working girls but it’s generally not. But in Japan it is still old school “take care of your man” and this is intoxicatingly sexy.

Supermonger Steve. Thanks again. A superb report. I have just created a bucket list with one item on :D. Your report is life changing.

Number one in London?. Congrats for that.

[QUOTE=VitoCorleone;2305505]Steve,

I really enjoy reading your reports! It's not Germany related but better than all this who needs therapy, who's addicted, who thinks they have reverend pimp daddy skills but still has to pay the girls. Socially awkward, makes the girls sticky wet while searching for woman behavior but in reality the girls who tolerate him for his money.

Keep providing great trip reports![/QUOTE]I would much rather be reading about action in Germany in a Germany-focused thread. But, have to agree that Steve's reports are better than what has been going on here for way, way, way too long. Paradise is affiliated with Tokyo Hentai Club by the way. You can see Paradise tutes featured on THC's home page: [URL]https://hentaitokyo.com/.[/URL].

[QUOTE=Optimist;2305866]Supermonger Steve. Thanks again. A superb report. I have just created a bucket list with one item on :D. Your report is life changing.

Number one in London?. Congrats for that.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the kind words all. I'll be bringing it closer to home with CH / AU up next. But I also have another handful of APs I can post later if we get bored. Natasha, Honey, Hitomi, Sophia, and Judy's Girl.

Yes Top experience of my life was with Thifany the Unicorn in London. A girl I spent 5 hours with in Brazil and then flew to London for a week. To say it was epic is an understatement. I have a full write up that takes about 20 minutes to read but won't post here due to length and personal details. Interested parties can PM me and I will email if you have a safe address for me to send to.

Stay tuned for CH / AU.

Can I offer a slightly dissenting view?

While it's true that this is a general lounge and chat area, and there is room for more drift than perhaps in other items, and indeed Steve 9696's reports on Japan are very good. . . .

This is still a thread that is supposed to focus on German FKK clubs. Those who come here looking for that shouldn't have to read and then skip entries that are this far off topic.

I would suggest putting long Japan reviews in the Japan category and thread, but then post a short note here saying "hey, I just posted a new Japan review" and perhaps offer a direct URL.

I actually like super WG enthusiast Steve posting his world experiences here. Gives a feel of lounging in FKKs and chat with a fellow enthusiast who is sharing his experiences in other parts of the world while I recover from last session and wait to find the next girl I want to bang in the FKK.

Plus I don't have to go to 10 different threads to find his really valuable reports to create my next bucket list. Makes my life easier 😁.

Thank you again Steve. Please keep on posting and enlighten rest of us in this community.

"She is licking me everywhere. It is just a cacophony of sensations. A body symphony." Wish this girl comes to Germany and coach some of the FKK girls!

[QUOTE=Gino02;2306035]I actually like super WG enthusiast Steve posting his world experiences here. Gives a feel of lounging in FKKs and chat with a fellow enthusiast who is sharing his experiences in other parts of the world while I recover from last session and wait to find the next girl I want to bang in the FKK.

Plus I don't have to go to 10 different threads to find his really valuable reports to create my next bucket list. Makes my life easier 😁.

Thank you again Steve. Please keep on posting and enlighten rest of us in this community.

"She is licking me everywhere. It is just a cacophony of sensations. A body symphony." Wish this girl comes to Germany and coach some of the FKK girls![/QUOTE]While there is some logic to what you say, I completely disagree. Under your theory there would be a single thread for all postings from all countries. This would be so difficult to find a post about any specific club or lady. Perhaps a few senior posters from the German threads should post about German clubs on the threads from other countries and see how we are received.

The only reason I am posting is because a lot of folks (it appears) me included were tired to death of the pop psychology crowd completely dominating what used to be an interesting and lively chat area. If there are worthy topics to discuss then I'd prefer that. Like it used to be.

I don't want to be the new dominator of the thread. I am just (by request) filling the void. I will make the dissenters a deal that I won't post worldwide FRs and backgrounders on any day that a worthy FKK (or sex of any kind really) discussion is going on. So far today? Zip.

So what do folks want to hear about in next post: Berlin non-Artemis options? Globe? Aphrodisia (2 x Globe price. Gack! Goldentime Linz? Claudius Caesar Graz? London Incall Ro-Girls? Brazil several venues? USA?

I am here only to serve. Let me know.

Steve,

I have grown very fond of FKKs as compared to other places (Tijuana, Bogota, Rio / Brazil). I like the club atmosphere and the ability to pick a girl and have fun within minutes. It feels clean, safe and to be frank "easy". Also, for the most part the language barrier isn't an issue. I would say the girls in Sao Paulo are absolutely amazing in the sack and I love the ability to follow the GP's on Twitter. Getting to meet them though can be a challenge. I want to go back to Sao Paulo and Porto Allegro (for some reason this place is packed with them). What are your thoughts on FKKs vs. Brazil?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2306122]Posting to Keep it Alive
The only reason I am posting is because a lot of folks (it appears) me included were tired to death of the pop psychology crowd completely dominating what used to be an interesting and lively chat area. If there are worthy topics to discuss then I'd prefer that. Like it used to be.

I don't want to be the new dominator of the thread. I am just (by request) filling the void. I will make the dissenters a deal that I won't post worldwide FRs and backgrounders on any day that a worthy FKK (or sex of any kind really) discussion is going on. So far today? Zip.

So what do folks want to hear about in next post: Berlin non-Artemis options? Globe? Aphrodisia (2 x Globe price. Gack! Goldentime Linz? Claudius Caesar Graz? London Incall Ro-Girls? Brazil several venues? USA?

I am here only to serve. Let me know.[/QUOTE]Isn't that a little funny and even ironic? Stating that we have to post off topic discussions to keep the thread "alive. " It seems that dead or artificially alive is preferred over authentic topics that touch sensitive nerves, my 2 cents of irony.

Steve,

Thank you so much for your detailed reports. I can't wait to read your reports on Globe and Aphrodisia. Keep on writing.

Logic would appear to mean that Steve's posts here are inappropriate. But once I take account of all the (for me) irrelevant discussions on psychology in recent times, I find Steve's off topic posts very relevant. Maybe on this one occasion it is reasonable to allow a bit of slack, as they are that rare thing, Field Reports, which are sadly lacking in the FKK threads.

I agree completely with the thoughts of Chongmai, but still welcome the Steve reports. So I am contradicting myself. As often happens. Maybe it is just that I can live with this off topic bonanza just this one time, and one time only, for a limited time, because of the recent character of the thread.

Glad to spread my confusion :)

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2306041]While there is some logic to what you say, I completely disagree. Under your theory there would be a single thread for all postings from all countries. This would be so difficult to find a post about any specific club or lady. Perhaps a few senior posters from the German threads should post about German clubs on the threads from other countries and see how we are received.[/QUOTE]I second that. The evopsych lectures were irrelevant but so are mongering reports about random countries. This thread is about German FKKs.

Thread discipline is paramount in any forum. Without it a forum goes to pieces. Thread discipline has often been lacking (or insufficiently enforced) on this forum alas. You see too much highjacking of threads. You also see members duplicating threads that already exist for want of first ascertaining whether a thread on the same topic didn't already exist. The whole forum then risks becoming a shambles.

[QUOTE=XXL;2306262]I second that. The evopsych lectures were irrelevant but so are mongering reports about random countries. This thread is about German FKKs.

Thread discipline is paramount in any forum. Without it a forum goes to pieces. Thread discipline has often been lacking (or insufficiently enforced) on this forum alas. You see too much highjacking of threads. You also see members duplicating threads that already exist for want of first ascertaining whether a thread on the same topic didn't already exist. The whole forum then risks becoming a shambles.[/QUOTE]So irrelevant begins again LOL, chongmal is often the source of such debates.

I would say, Mr Steve has no bad intentions, so reading about mongering related topic is always good thing for forum, the biggest problem of this forum is there are certain group of people, some are with multiple accounts with different handle names by one guy are always pointing fingers at other posters for small details, then all mood of forum goes to argumentative pointing finger at each other mood. It is almost they want to manipulate it that way.

I would say, if you don't like some posts, just ignore it and let it through instead of pointing finger at others who has no bad intention and I think Mr steve has no bad intention, and it is lounge and chat here, I have met some mongers in german FKK in real life and when we chat, we did speak about mongering in other nations too because it is related to mongering and comparison is important to know.

XXL. Cogently argued.

[QUOTE=XXL;2306262]I second that. The evopsych lectures were irrelevant but so are mongering reports about random countries. This thread is about German FKKs. Thread discipline is paramount in any forum. Without it a forum goes to pieces. Thread discipline has often been lacking (or insufficiently enforced) on this forum alas. You see too much highjacking of threads. You also see members duplicating threads that already exist for want of first ascertaining whether a thread on the same topic didn't already exist. The whole forum then risks becoming a shambles.[/QUOTE]In the final analysis, I must agree. But, I was just dying for anything and / or anybody to shut these guys down. Yes, thread discipline enforcement would help. A lot!

[QUOTE=DukesFord;2306159]What are your thoughts on FKKs vs. Brazil?[/QUOTE]This is an oft asked question. Germany has the FKKs while Rio de Janeiro has the termas. Same concept, but the German FKKs tend to be larger, even a smaller one like FKK Samya in Cologne. That said, I much prefer Brazil. I like the broader variety in the look of Brazilian women. Nobody fucks better than the "garotas" of Brazil either. And if you're an anal sex lover like I am, then no place tops Brazil! My last few trips to Germany were really good for knocking the bottom out of the booty holes, but Brazil remains number 1! Plus, I just like Brazilain culture, weather, language, food, etc. Better. So, I have it Brazil first, Germany second, and Thailand third. If I liked Asian girls more, then Thailand would be number 1. But for me, it's the Latinas and the white girls that do it, so Brazil has got to be first. Why, what with all the plentiful anal sex and all LOLOLOL! I always say that my dream scenario would be German-style FKKs, lined all along Thai beaches, and full of nothing but hot, curvy Brazilian girls taking it up the butt! Hahaha! My focus here was on Rio, but Sao Paulo is also good (but no termas).

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2306015]Thanks for the kind words all. I'll be bringing it closer to home with CH / AU up next.

Stay tuned for CH / AU.[/QUOTE]I am looking forward to reading your AU-report, as I go there in a few weeks. I will probably plan my route after reading your review. Thank you for sharing so many thoughts and tips!!

Adding to the Cane's wisdom, don't forget the Boate. Rio has termas like an FKK, but São Paulo is king of the boate. A boate is a nightclub full of working girls and with onsite rooms for paid enagagements. For a full day experience nothing beats the FKK but for a night out the boate is great fun.

Scandalo is probably the most luxe and expensive. Much nicer than any FKK I've been to. I mean like a super high end nightclub and bar and cafe — except the girls are all there for one thing. And it just seems more relaxed than the FKK — the girls are not in such a rush to go to the room and you don't feel like you are wasting their time. I literally drank and flirted with Karina for two hours before suggesting a room (me not her). I was just having such a blast and it was so natural that I just lost track of time. Same thing with Thifany at Fazendinha. Probably at least a half hour chatting and making out before I thought to ask quanta costa?

Just a really fun and flirty vibe. I love the boate and the FKK both, but for different types of experiences.

So just across the border, lies the oft discussed Club Globe and nearby the extraodinarily pricey Aphrodisia. Is globe worth 2 X German FKK prices? Is Aphrodisia worth 4 X? Wow. Only one way to answer these questions — go there. So I did!

The short answer is it depends on your budget. If 50€ is tough to part with and you have to carefully manage your FKK budget, then no. Neither is worth the multiple. Much more bang for your buck in Frankfurt.

If on the other hand you have a large girl budget, they are worth doing.

Starting with Globe — the girls are impressive. There isn't the variance you see in some clubs. They are all tight and in shape and pretty. And the service has less variation as well, as has been widely reported and was my experience as well. I was recently with three girls and they were all great or in the case of Kate, epic. I did find the fact that I literally had to chase down girls annoying. They could be more forward and approachable without being sharky.

Aphrodisia is a whole different beast. Tiny little bar. Free alcohol. No cover. (Yep and yep) And 30 hot Romanians all eating you alive with their eyes. It is worth the coin once or twice to experience it, but it's not somewhere you can repeatedly go to and feel good about the value. I'll post an FR on Aphrodisia since it's quite unique and most folks here unlikely to run across it. Globe of course has a strong forum and following.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2306532]So just across the border, lies the oft discussed Club Globe and nearby the extraodinarily pricey Aphrodisia. Is globe worth 2 X German FKK prices? Is Aphrodisia worth 4 X? Wow. Only one way to answer these questions go there. So I did!

The short answer is it depends on your budget. If 50 is tough to part with and you have to carefully manage your FKK budget, then no. Neither is worth the multiple. Much more bang for your buck in Frankfurt.

If on the other hand you have a large girl budget, they are worth doing.

Starting with Globe the girls are impressive. There isn't the variance you see in some clubs. They are all tight and in shape and pretty. And the service has less variation as well, as has been widely reported and was my experience as well. I was recently with three girls and they were all great or in the case of Kate, epic. I did find the fact that I literally had to chase down girls annoying. They could be more forward and approachable without being sharky..[/QUOTE]I only been to Globe once and that was on Sunday. LU was not as good as I thought, but it is my fault for going there with too much high expectation. And now that I look back, line up is collection of minimum good looking girls of German FKK and stunners of German FKK I guess on weekdays, but I went on Sunday, so I just mostly got good looking girls on line up. The service was as good as I was told without any negotiation and as for time, 30 min is 30 min in globe.

My conclusion is that, if you are 50 euro or 100 euro session guy in German FKK, mostly hanging around in Hessen area and Berlin area for FKK activity. Globe Zurich is good place to be after the law because it is very unlikely to get GFE service for just 50 euro per 30 min and girls often ask 100 euro for 30 min and even you extend time to one hour, so 100 euro session, many girls now ask for 150 euro or even 200 euro, often settle for 150 euro though. However, some girls are still hit and miss in German FKK even after upsell.

On the other hand, in globe it is 140 chf, so that is around 120 euro and you do get full service with passion on the side of girls, she will kiss you strongly, BBBJ, DATY, multiple position etc. , and that is for full 30 min, no cheap shot scum of time or service in globe. So price range is getting similar with very small difference for just about 20 euro between some German FKK clubs and Globe and in globe it is secured and guaranteed to be delivered without any annoying negotiation or cheap shot attempt to scum you, so one can go into room without any stress, which is like to fee in FKK with only small difference of about 20 euro per 30 min. Stay in Zurich is slightly more pricey and also if you add options and longer time, it can add up, but for certain use, globe is now similar price range as some German FKK clubs with upsell namely Artemis and Palace, so it is worth visit for 30 min mongers who want good service without annoying negotiation, then difference is session price is very small with great return, even for one hour it still is small difference in price like around 50 euro difference.

This was not the case before the new law or recent tendency of girls asking for more upsell in German FKK, but like any market, price tend to inflate as we advance into future. Only exception is nrw clubs, where price and service is as FKK was back in early 2010's. Why? I don't know, but beside oceans, I was never upsold session in any of nrw FKK, even at oceans upsell is mild enough comparison to Hessen and Berlin FKK club which is only Artemis.

Only downside of globe Zurich is that, it is hard club to stay long time with only outside area being roof top terrace that you need to take elevator to go up to, but comparison to palace, at least globe has area where you can feel fresh air and get away from enclosed main bar of FKK that is hard to stay whole day.

I would say for certain use, Globe Zurich is now in similar price range with secure guaranteed service delivery with no cheating of time that monger can feel stress free for extra about 20 euro per 30 min given that many German FKK girls ask for upsell price.

[NOPARSE]Salaam and Abra-Kadabra, Steve... the two best openers under samawat![/NOPARSE]

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2306525]Adding to the Cane's wisdom, don't forget the Boate. Rio has termas like an FKK, but So Paulo is king of the boate. A boate is a nightclub full of working girls and with onsite rooms for paid enagagements. For a full day experience nothing beats the FKK but for a night out the boate is great fun.
[/QUOTE]As the European scene comes under Romanian domination, the West comes down to Brazilians vs Romanians. Both countries have a monthly average wage of about US $650, so there is motivation for the women to work in something lucrative. But the similarities end there. For me the Brazilians win easily. The Romanians tend to organize in gangs, but what we want in a woman is individuality. We don't want soldiers. Also the Romanians, speaking English, have inherited Anglo-Saxon culture and the misandry that comes with it. To me the Brazilians seem more "normal" -- just an absence of baggage. The result is I find it easier to have conversations with Brazilians even though they don't speak English and the Romanians do.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2306532]
Starting with Globe the girls are impressive. There isn't the variance you see in some clubs. They are all tight and in shape and pretty. And the service has less variation as well, as has been widely reported and was my experience as well. I was recently with three girls and they were all great or in the case of Kate, epic. I did find the fact that I literally had to chase down girls annoying. They could be more forward and approachable without being sharky.
[/QUOTE]There was some discussion on the Globe thread about how attitudes have declined. I think it is still possible to get the "Globe standard" as long as you hunt or wait for the stars. Hint: this means avoiding girls in gangs and girls that can't have real conversations. No matter how new and shiny their bodies are. The trouble is, the real girls are booked in rooms all the time.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2306532]
Aphrodisia is a whole different beast. Tiny little bar. Free alcohol. No cover. (Yep and yep) And 30 hot Romanians all eating you alive with their eyes. It is worth the coin once or twice to experience it, but it's not somewhere you can repeatedly go to and feel good about the value. I'll post an FR on Aphrodisia since it's quite unique and most folks here unlikely to run across it. Globe of course has a strong forum and following.[/QUOTE]A reminder that some bad reports about Aphrodisia sessions have come out. Even an absence of DFK and BBBJ. You may be lucky and you may not. For me, not worth the risk at those sky-high prices.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2306525]
Scandalo is probably the most luxe and expensive. Much nicer than any FKK I've been to. I mean like a super high end nightclub and bar and cafe except the girls are all there for one thing. And it just seems more relaxed than the FKK the girls are not in such a rush to go to the room and you don't feel like you are wasting their time.
[/QUOTE]Scandallo is great. I just have a couple of issues. (1) The way they badger you for ID on entry. That is disrespectful of the customer's privacy. You don't have to give up your ID, but a lot of guys don't realize this. (2) The waiters encourage the girls to pester you for drinks. You are already paying to be there. When certain girls do this, it strikes a really artificial note and sometimes feels low-class, like a form of begging. Of course it's different if you are the one to offer a girl a drink. Anyway these are relatively minor issues, and I like Scandallo overall.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2306400] I always say that my dream scenario would be German-style FKKs, lined all along Thai beaches, and full of nothing but hot, curvy Brazilian girls taking it up the butt! Hahaha! My focus here was on Rio, but Sao Paulo is also good (but no termas).[/QUOTE]How curvy are these Brazilians really? Don't get me wrong, some curves are fine. And more so if the shape and face is good. But when you say it like this, I get worried the shape is too big. But there are plenty of slimmer Brazilians too. The non stereotypical ones.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2306525]Scandalo is probably the most luxe and expensive. Much nicer than any FKK I've been to. I mean like a super high end nightclub and bar and cafe except the girls are all there for one thing. [/QUOTE]Is this the place you talk about?

[URL]http://scandallolounge.com.br/a-casa/[/URL]

What are the prices here by the way? Website has no info on it.

Also, if you haven't been to any nicer looking FKK, which FKK have you really been to? Not trying to be rude here, but from the pictures, perhaps only Acapulco looks worse to me than this.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2306525]
Scandalo is probably the most luxe and expensive. Much nicer than any FKK I've been to. I mean like a super high end nightclub and bar and cafe except the girls are all there for one thing. [/QUOTE]Is this the place you talk about?

[URL]http://scandallolounge.com.br/a-casa/[/URL]

What are the prices here by the way? Website has no info on it.

Also, if you haven't been to any nicer looking FKK, which FKK have you really been to? Not trying to be rude here, but from the pictures, perhaps only Acapulco, and some of the other nrw clubs like Magnum etc looks worse to me than this. Especially looking at the cafe area and some of the seats in the lounge.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2306825]Is this the place you talk about?

[URL]http://scandallolounge.com.br/a-casa/[/URL]

What are the prices here by the way? Website has no info on it.

Also, if you haven't been to any nicer looking FKK, which FKK have you really been to? Not trying to be rude here, but from the pictures, perhaps only Acapulco, and some of the other nrw clubs like Magnum etc looks worse to me than this. Especially looking at the cafe area and some of the seats in the lounge.[/QUOTE]I have been to Sharks Oase Palace World Globe Goldentime Artemis. So not an exhaustive list for sure. But also a nontrivial sample. I will tell you in person it is REALLY nice. Perhaps other German FKKs rival it. What do you think are the most luxe FKK venues?

[QUOTE=Pistons;2306820]How curvy are these Brazilians really? Don't get me wrong, some curves are fine. And more so if the shape and face is good. But when you say it like this, I get worried the shape is too big. But there are plenty of slimmer Brazilians too. The non stereotypical ones.[/QUOTE]I don't think I'm generalizing too much to say the Brazilian aesthetic tends towards slightly thicker gals and with a true Brasileira bunda (butt). I say this based on two things: If you follow #brasileira on Instagram you will see it tends toward thicker but not fat, and very pretty girls. If you go to photoacompanhantes (the best FL WG site) they all lead with ass pics! Only in Brazil!

For my money I discovered the charm of the Brasileira bunda but attached on a slim frame. This is an amazing freak of nature. Of the ten girls I saw, both Duda and Eduarda had this unique feature -- super tiny feminine frame and a tiny waist and this substantial, round, but not fat, Bunda. It is truly amazing to do doggie with your hands on this tiny waist and then this copious bunda to pound against. Just as Kate at Globe is a freak of nature with her slimness (but not skinny! So too are these slim girls with the Brasileira bunda. I rather grew to love it.

Here is a good example.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2306901]I have been to Sharks Oase Palace World Globe Goldentime Artemis. So not an exhaustive list for sure. But also a nontrivial sample. I will tell you in person it is REALLY nice. Perhaps other German FKKs rival it. What do you think are the most luxe FKK venues?[/QUOTE]Well Goldentime Bruggen, and from the pictures, it seems Globe is also a bit run down. So looking worse than scandallo.

The most modern and fresh FKK's in my mind are: Sharks, Oase, Palace after the renovation this winter, Oceans, Wellcum, Marina, YinYang and probably the 2 Austrian Goldentime's (Vienna and Linz).

Paradise Stuttgart is also ahead. And from what I can tell also Sakura and Paradise Saarbrucken. Artemis after the renovation last year as well. At least not worse looking than Scandallo, and the same can be said about World or Dolce Vita I suppose. Not sure how the Hamburg clubs would compare.

This is just from an interior perspective of course.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2306589]As the European scene comes under Romanian domination, the West comes down to Brazilians vs Romanians.[/QUOTE]But the 'west' and 'east' are nothing but political ideas. We can just as well group the world into continents: Eurasia, Africa, Oceania, Americas. And by this definition, Germany and Japan would be grouped together in Eurasia.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2306939]I don't think I'm generalizing too much to say the Brazilian aesthetic tends towards slightly thicker gals and with a true Brasileira bunda (butt). I say this based on two things: If you follow #brasileira on Instagram you will see it tends toward thicker but not fat, and very pretty girls. If you go to photoacompanhantes (the best FL WG site) they all lead with ass pics! Only in Brazil!

For my money I discovered the charm of the Brasileira bunda but attached on a slim frame. This is an amazing freak of nature. Of the ten girls I saw, both Duda and Eduarda had this unique feature -- super tiny feminine frame and a tiny waist and this substantial, round, but not fat, Bunda. It is truly amazing to do doggie with your hands on this tiny waist and then this copious bunda to pound against. Just as Kate at Globe is a freak of nature with her slimness (but not skinny! So too are these slim girls with the Brasileira bunda. I rather grew to love it.

Here is a good example.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I've seen it. I must agree some can look quite good. But to me it is mainly a shape issue. Not a size issue. And in that regard for averages I don't find the Brazilians to either be above nor below Romanians. Most girls at #brasileira falls under the fat category instead of shapy category in my book though. But I have noticed that usually most of the fat goes away when they are bent in doggy. So I guess we can stretch that definition a bit. The biggest butts you do find in Angola / Namibia though. And a bit among the igbo in Nigeria. But there the frame is also larger.

Also if I have eaten a lot lately and gained a few kg in weight, I tend to prefer girls with a bit thicker legs and ass. Still needing to be shapey and not fat. So I have concluded this is just about the eye of the beholder.

I usually just go by the presumption that if a girl has a cute face, that face's characteristics are in a way mirrored in the shape of their butt. So I don't always even have to check out their butt first. And it seems to be so in close to 100% of the cases. One girl here for example from Dominican Republic has a type of face that makes me think she also has a well shaped butt. While the other picture has a Thai gogo dancer I knew who had an incredible shaped butt. But her face was a bit too cute perhaps. If that is even a thing.

I looked a bit more on the instagram hashtag you mentionned and did find some girls with great shaped butts:

Karinaa. Cardosoo.

Nicksvieiraoficial.

Costagabi_.

The last one being on the edge perhaps for muscles. There is a trend among the butts I agree, but I don't know if it is more diverse than say among Romanians.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2306983]I usually just go by the presumption that if a girl has a cute face, that face's characteristics are in a way mirrored in the shape of their butt. So I don't always even have to check out their butt first. And it seems to be so in close to 100% of the cases.....[/QUOTE]What an extraordinary assumption. I for one have come to assume zero correlation between a pretty face and other parts of a woman's body. All too often have I had to give up on a pretty face as soon as the girl stood up and I could catch a glimpse of her backside. Meanwhile, plenty of butterfaces with gorgeous butts.

Where I find a definite correlation is between an FKK girl's propensity to remain seated most of the time and her not being possessed of a shapely butt. Such a correlation is not rocket science though.

[QUOTE=XXL;2307161]What an extraordinary assumption. I for one have come to assume zero correlation between a pretty face and other parts of a woman's body. All too often have I had to give up on a pretty face as soon as the girl stood up and I could catch a glimpse of her backside. Meanwhile, plenty of butterfaces with gorgeous butts.

Where I find a definite correlation is between an FKK girl's propensity to remain seated most of the time and her not being possessed of a shapely butt. Such a correlation is not rocket science though.[/QUOTE]Hehe, I have also noticed that correlation. But that usually tends to be a question about fat and size. The shape is more genetically defined. Or maybe I am using the wrong description here.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2306943]Well Goldentime Bruggen, and from the pictures, it seems Globe is also a bit run down. So looking worse than scandallo.

The most modern and fresh FKK's in my mind are: Sharks, Oase, Palace after the renovation this winter, Oceans, Wellcum, Marina, YinYang and probably the 2 Austrian Goldentime's (Vienna and Linz).

Paradise Stuttgart is also ahead. And from what I can tell also Sakura and Paradise Saarbrucken. Artemis after the renovation last year as well. At least not worse looking than Scandallo, and the same can be said about World or Dolce Vita I suppose. Not sure how the Hamburg clubs would compare.

This is just from an interior perspective of course.[/QUOTE]I would agree that both Artemis and Goldentime Linz have pretty nice facilities. I would say GTL is close to Scandalo level for facilities. My Sharks / Oase visits were 2-3 years back but facilities nothing to write home about. Anyhow let's just say Scandalo is a top venue in many respects and highly recommended.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2307289]I would agree that both Artemis and Goldentime Linz have pretty nice facilities. I would say GTL is close to Scandalo level for facilities. My Sharks / Oase visits were 2-3 years back but facilities nothing to write home about. Anyhow let's just say Scandalo is a top venue in many respects and highly recommended.[/QUOTE]Oase renovated the lounge just over a year ago. And Sharks did some renovation 2-3 years ago too. With new jaccuzis etc. Sharks outdoor garden is pretty spectacular for an FKK I would say at least. And very modern wellness options.

For me, when it comes to facility, most important thing is that facility is designed for clients to stay all day long. Lighting to see girls properly without magic and hygiene of the place to some extent.

I say this because most mongers stay around 5 hours in FKK or some even longer, and quite a lot of that time are spent in finding the girl you want to go to room with and also between the session rest time where you can rest a way from girls to recover or look back on the memorable session you just had etc. So lay out and preferably bigger size venue is always plus, and hopefully some outside area where you can take fresh air even in winter, I like going outside just for a minute or two.

Lighting is important as well because many FKK is too dark or it got this disco light that make girls face and skin look too good. , I call this magic light of FKK LOL, so I like FKK where I can see girls face properly under normal blight light. This would be for instance like Artemis stairways by game machine, Oase down stairs by restaurant where girls come out, or palace first small bar where small safety box are (now destroyed and not there anymore). Piston pointed out that Oase lounge got renovated and if that is the lounge on the left side when you just enter club then I hope they fixed that dark light because it was way too dark to see girls face at main lounge of Oase.

As for hygiene, most club is clean, it is just worn out due to heavy daily use and not able to renovate, but usually I don't know any club that got better with renovation and I tend to like it as it was as long as it is clean enough, which I think most FKK I went to are.

Personally, I like Artemis set up for staying all day long, and that is the only FKK that got better with renovation of out door jacuzzi, outdoor pool and separate sauna buildings, it would have been nice if they built out door fuck place, but over all, renovation few years ago was good move that did not bother anybody during construction and after. It is too bad that line up went down and upsell got bad at Artemis, if not that would still be my favorite club in Germany with Berlin being my favorite city with plenty of things I can do during day before going to Artemis.

Other FKK I like during summer only is gt because it got out side, out side fuck places, out side sun deds to chill, separate tent with lounge and resty, so plenty of get away place to stay all day, maybe that is why place is too packed with clients all the time. If gt has pool, it would be amazing venue. It got pond that is not suited to swim though LOL.

Worst FKK set up is definitely palace and LR. Both are too small to stay long time. LR at least has outdoor area and also has kind line up where girls are somehow more soft and friendly, but palace, you got some sharky girls always coming to you even you wear the wrist bands that supposed to leave you alone, they recently became more softer thought, but either way, club is too small and lay out is designed in the way that you cannot rest away from girls even between sessions and I hear they took away the smoking room now after renovation. Now main bar must be smoky as Artemis main bar, but in palace no where to escape away too with no out side area.

I like sharks set up, but I never liked lighting there, it is deceiving somehow, it is that magic light LOL. But I always loved second floor where you can get away from girls, but look down to whole floor while resting between session. Out door pool is really nice there during summer, but somehow line up never impressed me at sharks.

Oceans has nice set up during summer and only if they have pool there outside, it would be amazing facility. Only down side is that many of lockers are broken and never fixed. The odd thing is even oceans has one big ware house design like sharks but with only one floor, somehow girls never approach me aggressively, and even they mildly upsell, it is somehow more milder than club like palace or Artemis or Oase, it must be NRW thing because I tend to see big service difference in nrw FKK than other area of Germany.

All in all, Artemis still is my best venue for layout if you only talk about lay out and the city that is in and actually most easy to access location for such big FKK.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2307442]For me, when it comes to facility, most important thing is that facility is designed for clients to stay all day long. Lighting to see girls properly without magic and hygiene of the place to some extent.

I say this because most mongers stay around 5 hours in FKK or some even longer, and quite a lot of that time are spent in finding the girl you want to go to room with and also between the session rest time where you can rest a way from girls to recover or look back on the memorable session you just had etc. So lay out and preferably bigger size venue is always plus, and hopefully some outside area where you can take fresh air even in winter, I like going outside just for a minute or two.

Lighting is important as well because many FKK is too dark or it got this disco light that make girls face and skin look too good. , I call this magic light of FKK LOL, so I like FKK where I can see girls face properly under normal blight light. This would be for instance like Artemis stairways by game machine, Oase down stairs by restaurant where girls come out, or palace first small bar where small safety box are (now destroyed and not there anymore). Piston pointed out that Oase lounge got renovated and if that is the lounge on the left side when you just enter club then I hope they fixed that dark light because it was way too dark to see girls face at main lounge of Oase.

As for hygiene, most club is clean, it is just worn out due to heavy daily use and not able to renovate, but usually I don't know any club that got better with renovation and I tend to like it as it was as long as it is clean enough, which I think most FKK I went to are..[/QUOTE]I thin you must not have been to Bab Elsdorf since their renovation. One thought about outdoor fucking, there are a few that actually fuck outside and the rest are watchers. I personally enjoy being watched but the last ladies I discussed this with wanted 300+ for 30 minutes. I remember when it was part of a normal priced session.

Rolled up around 10 and like a lot of these clubs it is very discreet from the street. Uber guy dropped me off but I had to poke around a bit to find it. It is in fact at the pin but only identified by two massive wooden doors. Push your way in and you will see another door labeled Aphrodisia.

Upon arrival a hostess greets me in the hall and explains the process and prices (yes it's 280 a half! But it scales better. 380 for 45 minutes is the best deal. 500 an hour). On your right is another door where you enter the club. And wow. I mean wow. This was a Thursday night and there must have been 30 girls and maybe 5-6 guys. I was stunned how many girls there were and they were all slim and pretty.

The club has an unusual format. No cover and the drinks are free. You could literally come in have a few drinks and leave if you don't like the merch. This is highly unlikely. The place this is most like is Manhattan bar in Shanghai. There are tons of girls and they all eyes on you. It's very unusual if you are used to being the last picked for gym class. .

The girls are not allowed to approach so it's a very chill vibe. I found a spot on the couch and chatted up a fellow compatriot who had been before. It was a nice conversation but before long we waived over a dark haired Romanian hottie in a black Danskin. She sat between us and we both chatted her up a bit. I was tempted but we both moved on.

Eventually I settled on Aurelia. An unbelievably pretty German girl. A solid 9 in and out of her clothes. We went upstairs. The rooms are very nice with 12 foot ceilings and a big king bed in a large room. Showered across the hall while she took the money downstairs. Clothes were shed and we had a very pleasant if unspectacular time. We did all the usual stuff but I can't recall the exact sequence (give me a break. I've fucked 5 girls in the last 24 hours and I am in pussy fog!

Her kissing was light and she does not BLS or I would have repeated. Great pussy fit, in both doggie and Mish which is rare for me, so that is a big plus. And the kisses were sweet and lovely, just not as passionate as I prefer. We finished about 20 minutes in but no rush to leave. Shared a cigarette on the bed and just chatted for a while. Nice relaxed mood.

Even though the sex was nothing to write home about there is a classiness to the in room interaction. Very sweet and professional and at the end where I had left the CH20 change she said "don't forget your money" rather than "a tip for me? Just a classy feel throughout.

Went back down and cruised a bit more. By now (midnight?) there are 5-10 more guys in the club and more girls also. Really quite packed. Met another nice local chap and we talked about how important connection is to the whole affair. I chatted with one very pretty girl. Just my type but when I talked about how much I like to kiss I could tell it's not her thing. So I moved on. (I'm getting better at this!

After cruising a bit but becoming concerned about picking a mediocre BJ and light kisser for round two, one of the guys suggested I check with the handler. So I went and chatted with her And she went off to find my girl. I only specified "loves kissing and has brown eyes". She came back with a real slim beauty -- Saskia. Don't know how I missed her.

Same ritual upstairs with shower and pay. Then a really nice GFE session. BJ was quite good though again lacking BLS but the kissing had an authentic feel. Really nice. We had some quite good 69. She is very slim but has quite meaty pussy lips. I'd not DATYed that before and it was really quite nice. We had to go to a hand job lotion finish, which speaks a little to her solid but not spectacular BJ but really a very nice session -- 45 minutes at 380. I took her WhatsApp contact deets. Nice girl. Would repeat.

So that is Aphrodisia. Expensive yes. Pretty girls yes. Classy yes. Sex pretty good based on two samples. All in all a fun experience if you have money to burn and like the "bar pickup" simulated experience. Would repeat but only for the variety.

NB: To both girls credit I'the forgotten to take my Vitamin V and they kept me hard and engaged throughout.

I've been reading different posts asking about Easter holiday. It's good to know that Romanians celebrate Orthodox Easter, not Catholic Easter. It seems like majority of the world celebrates Catholic Easter, not the Orthodox one. Do the Romanians really go home few days before the Orthodox Easter Sunday just to go to churches and then come back immediately after that? Is that their normal annual routine? Does it make any logistical sense at all? I never thought of Romania as a religious country. I don't feel that Romanians are that religious based on countless conversation I had with them over the years. They never once brought up religion. It's hard to believe that the ones working at FKK clubs are that religious. Otherwise, I wouldn't think they would work at these places. No?

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2307664]I thin you must not have been to Bab Elsdorf since their renovation. One thought about outdoor fucking, there are a few that actually fuck outside and the rest are watchers. I personally enjoy being watched but the last ladies I discussed this with wanted 300+ for 30 minutes. I remember when it was part of a normal priced session.[/QUOTE]No I have not been there yet, but I may try to go at one point, thanks.

I do like to fuck out side because it is rather unusual thing to do and also I love the fresh open air freedom vibe of such session and somehow mother nature twist to it since we human at one point just lived and fucked in open air. The only place I tried that in FKK are in gt and also sharks.

In GT, tents out side are protected all around beside the side facing forest, so it is always keep that open during summer and no voyeur. I prefer it without people watching me fucking LOL. Tents in Gt seems more solid and better than Oase tents out side if Oase did not renew the out door tents.

In Sharks, I did it in this bed on the left side of swimming pool in fake mini forest kinda place, but girl and I spotted spooky bald man between the mini trees, so we decided to continue the session in room LOL.

I also heard other places with out side like world etc where it got good garden to fuck, but it is not must thing for me, though it is nice refreshing thing to fuck out door.

I only had out side sex twice in my private life with normal girlfriends in my life, so FKK with outdoor fuck places are always plus for me and I tend to like to fuck in more blighter room than dim dark room of FKK. I tend to remember session better and engraved into my memory more when the place where I am fucking has more light.

As for Globe Zurich, I thought that I kind of like it if they let roof top terrace where you can go up with elevator to be out door fuck place where you can go up with key only, then it would be nice top terrace room with open air to fuck girl, but then globe will not have open air space where we can rest between session, but such private open air space would have been nice.

Also Artemis got open air balconies that are now closed, it is too bad because they could have used that balcony for nice open air session place as well.

[QUOTE=SinglePro;2307740]I've been reading different posts asking about Easter holiday. It's good to know that Romanians celebrate Orthodox Easter, not Catholic Easter. It seems like majority of the world celebrates Catholic Easter, not the Orthodox one. Do the Romanians really go home few days before the Orthodox Easter Sunday just to go to churches and then come back immediately after that? Is that their normal annual routine? Does it make any logistical sense at all? I never thought of Romania as a religious country. I don't feel that Romanians are that religious based on countless conversation I had with them over the years. They never once brought up religion. It's hard to believe that the ones working at FKK clubs are that religious. Otherwise, I wouldn't think they would work at these places. No?[/QUOTE]From the Romanians I know, both from clubs and outside, there is a strong family connection and many families are religious and or celebrate the major religious holidays. My belief, the ladies go home to spend time with family. Easter is one holiday where people living in foreign countries, in the cities, etc. All return home for the holiday. This includes ladies working in Sauna Clubs.

[QUOTE=SinglePro;2307740]I've been reading different posts asking about Easter holiday. It's good to know that Romanians celebrate Orthodox Easter, not Catholic Easter. It seems like majority of the world celebrates Catholic Easter, not the Orthodox one. Do the Romanians really go home few days before the Orthodox Easter Sunday just to go to churches and then come back immediately after that? Is that their normal annual routine? Does it make any logistical sense at all? I never thought of Romania as a religious country. I don't feel that Romanians are that religious based on countless conversation I had with them over the years. They never once brought up religion. It's hard to believe that the ones working at FKK clubs are that religious. Otherwise, I wouldn't think they would work at these places. No?[/QUOTE]This is odd, but based on my experiences, which is each time when I went to Germany in July or August, when it is supposed to be low season for FKK, I found my most stunning looking girls of FKK. This is only Artemis experience because few times I went in July or August were all to Artemis only, but I found many stunners, but limited numbers of girls. My understanding is that during summer the club try to recruit from other clubs much more strongly to fill in absent girls, so girls who works at other clubs come much more than usual time to Artemis, so it increased the probability of bumping into stunning beauty during summer low months. I don't know how it is for other FKK though.

GT in end of June period was really good for line up too, but the club was packed with clients that it was really hard to catch some of the girls due to constant occupancy.

I tend to believe line up is just merely luck, but to zincs it, summer months are somehow more lucky month for line up for me. Even though, many girls tell me colder months are better for line up. It was not exactly the case for me.

[QUOTE=SinglePro;2307740]Does it make any logistical sense at all? I never thought of Romania as a religious country. I don't feel that Romanians are that religious based on countless conversation I had with them over the years. They never once brought up religion. It's hard to believe that the ones working at FKK clubs are that religious. Otherwise, I wouldn't think they would work at these places. No?[/QUOTE]The RTC BB CIP girls pray for crop failure.

[QUOTE=SinglePro;2307740]I've been reading different posts asking about Easter holiday. It's good to know that Romanians celebrate Orthodox Easter, not Catholic Easter. It seems like majority of the world celebrates Catholic Easter, not the Orthodox one. Do the Romanians really go home few days before the Orthodox Easter Sunday just to go to churches and then come back immediately after that? Is that their normal annual routine? Does it make any logistical sense at all? I never thought of Romania as a religious country. I don't feel that Romanians are that religious based on countless conversation I had with them over the years. They never once brought up religion. It's hard to believe that the ones working at FKK clubs are that religious. Otherwise, I wouldn't think they would work at these places. No?[/QUOTE]Yes they are very religious. And yes the ones working at FKK can be even more religious.

You think the Orthodox girls sit home waiting for the prince? I come from another Orthodox country and I can confirm that I know many orthodox people that go to church every Sunday but they are evil and do horrible things all other days. Religion has nothing to do with your job IMO.

[QUOTE=SinglePro;2307740]I've been reading different posts asking about Easter holiday. It's good to know that Romanians celebrate Orthodox Easter, not Catholic Easter. It seems like majority of the world celebrates Catholic Easter, not the Orthodox one. Do the Romanians really go home few days before the Orthodox Easter Sunday just to go to churches and then come back immediately after that? Is that their normal annual routine? Does it make any logistical sense at all? I never thought of Romania as a religious country. I don't feel that Romanians are that religious based on countless conversation I had with them over the years. They never once brought up religion. It's hard to believe that the ones working at FKK clubs are that religious. Otherwise, I wouldn't think they would work at these places. No?[/QUOTE]LU already started to decline since this week in most of the FKK, many mafia guys are going to church every week.

Chongmai. Glad to hear you remember public sex being common. Some girls used to really enjoy it, and also see it as a way of showcasing their skills. Such uninhibited girls and customers are hard to find in the current prudish norms of most FKKs.

Btw. You are dead right about the importance of Easter to Romanians. Often girls will ensure that if they can't go home, they get to a church service.Some girls don't go though, thinking they can't honestly worship on a day when they are doing sex work

My understanding is that many Romanians will go home for the combinations of Orthodox Easter (4/26) and May Day (5/1) holidays. Will they come back to the FKK clubs on 5/1 or 5/2? Any senior members have the experience in the past for this period of lacking of Romanians in the clubs? That information is important for peoples plan to visit during this period.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2307904]Yes they are very religious. And yes the ones working at FKK can be even more religious.

You think the Orthodox girls sit home waiting for the prince? I come from another Orthodox country and I can confirm that I know many orthodox people that go to church every Sunday but they are evil and do horrible things all other days. Religion has nothing to do with your job IMO.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2307904]Yes they are very religious. And yes the ones working at FKK can be even more religious.

You think the Orthodox girls sit home waiting for the prince? I come from another Orthodox country and I can confirm that I know many orthodox people that go to church every Sunday but they are evil and do horrible things all other days. Religion has nothing to do with your job IMO.[/QUOTE]I tend to think the same. Religion can be medicine or poison, it is rather two extreme affect.

But I also realized that those who are more religious tend to be more horrible in their private behavior and that also go with nations base themselves on strong religious influences.

I think logic is this, no matter what I do, god will protect me and forgive me, so let do what ever we want to do and we ask for forgiveness in front of god when they go to their place to pray etc. It is not religions though, it is human.

I think religion is good guidance, reliable moral or mental dependence and it is good on the hand of rational human, but on hand of some humans, it is worst recipe, which seems to be the case for many part of the world. It is amazing how some human can even manage to twist and misinterpret such a good will based guidance that was created to keep order in society few thousands years ago.

To get back to track, I also find many FKK girls to be religious, which I do not blame them due to their harsh situation and when you look closely to some of the girls tattoo, it is often religiously related like verse of holy books or some symbol etc.

Once, I had this Romanian girl I often session in room with and she had this tattoo saying " all sins are in gods book". On her ass cheek in beautiful italic writing. And when I was fucking her in doggy position, it was so weird feeling to read that verse and doing her hard like she is my doggy and I am her sin LOL. Plus, I was so stoned in legal herbs so it was even more bizarre moment I remember and cherish LOL.

In closing, I went to Romania, not to monger, but for holiday only long time ago and it is beautiful nation with full of beautiful buildings and many beautiful church, so it make sense why FKK Romanian girls are so religious, they were brought up that way, and it is sad to realize that the nation with such strong religious culture are more brutal when it comes to wealth balance within the nation. In FKK, it is better to rely mentally on religion than some kind of medication or drug, so maybe religion is helping them in positive way.

I found it funny, when I was reading about Berlsconis famous Bunga Bunga party that girls were dressed up as catholic nun, it is cultural thing, in Japan, we dress girls up in high school uniforms and in Italy where religion is strong, they dress prostitutes up in nun at least during bunga bunga party, I guess taboo always attract humans.

Bunga Bunga! LOL.

Of the 4 ladies I contacted, 2 will be in the club on May 2nd, one May 6th and the other does not know. That's my small sample size.

[QUOTE=AllForBb;2307994]My understanding is that many Romanians will go home for the combinations of Orthodox Easter (4/26) and May Day (5/1) holidays. Will they come back to the FKK clubs on 5/1 or 5/2? Any senior members have the experience in the past for this period of lacking of Romanians in the clubs? That information is important for peoples plan to visit during this period.[/QUOTE]It depends from girl to girl but normally they don't go back to Romania for just 3-4 days, They stay longer they have their family there, some have even a child. There.

[QUOTE=AllForBb;2307994]My understanding is that many Romanians will go home for the combinations of Orthodox Easter (4/26) and May Day (5/1) holidays. Will they come back to the FKK clubs on 5/1 or 5/2? Any senior members have the experience in the past for this period of lacking of Romanians in the clubs? That information is important for peoples plan to visit during this period.[/QUOTE]This is my understanding too. IME many are back in the beginning of May, but not all. I would not hesitate going early May, but if you want to optimize then postpone your trip untilll 10th May.

The number and optics of WGs during the important and / or long holiday period are less optimal than usual. A couple of main factors are as follows:

1. Some iSGers plan to visit FKK clubs during holidays like Easter, so do the local German mongers plan to visit other countries. During the important and / or long holidays, many local German mongers are away on vacation and the demand for the WGs is less. The WGs would make less money if total number of the WGs were the same as non-holiday time, so some WGs would rather not work and spend time with their family back in their home countries during holiday and so the lineup in the clubs would be smaller.

2. Many of more popular (presumably better optics) WGs would be absent during holidays because they made more money than average WGs during non-holiday period and wouldn't want to work too hard or can afford not to work during holidays. So the optics of the WGs in the clubs during holidays would be less optimal.

I don't think that they go home during religious holidays is because they are religious. If they were really religious, they would not be in this business. I had two girls from Eastern European country (not Romania), one prayed to God in front of me right before and after the session and the other put a photo of Jesus Christ on her table, claiming he is her boyfriend. But they all fucked like porn stars during the sessions...

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2308182]I don't think that they go home during religious holidays is because they are religious. If they were really religious, they would not be in this business. I had two girls from Eastern European country (not Romania), one prayed to God in front of me right before and after the session and the other put a photo of Jesus Christ on her table, claiming he is her boyfriend. But they all fucked like porn stars during the sessions...[/QUOTE]And to this I say thank ya Jesus! Thank ya Lord! Hahahaha!

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2308182]
I don't think that they go home during religious holidays is because they are religious. If they were really religious, they would not be in this business.
[/QUOTE]Why not? The second most religious woman of all time was a working girl. She was the one who brought the eggs to the tomb at Easter. When she saw Jesus was Risen, the eggs turned bright red. I guess the tale has some kind of metaphor there.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2308182]
I had two girls from Eastern European country (not Romania), one prayed to God in front of me right before and after the session and the other put a photo of Jesus Christ on her table, claiming he is her boyfriend.[/QUOTE]A perk of being tight with Jesus is you get lots of reincarnations. But you don't get to Move On.

Personally I always find it a downer if a girl talks about some other guy before sex. This is why I switched my allegiance to someone less clingy. Hamdulillah!

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2308223]Why not? [/QUOTE]I assume you were joking. Let me know just in case you were serious.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2308232]I assume you were joking. Let me know just in case you were serious.[/QUOTE]As for myself, I was serious Bfsie hahaha!

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2308232]I assume you were joking. Let me know just in case you were serious.[/QUOTE]As I said before I don't agree that if WG were religious they wouldn't have been in this business as you mentioned. They are religious and much more than others that are fake.

I cannot understand why religion is connected to prostitution unless you see it as a sinner and not a job.

Maybe we can blame these girls for other things but not for not been religious, At the end of the day they know much better than us if they are not religious.

Well, I think there is certainly some sort of metaphor around there. According to Genesis, even the bible admits there are several gods, or elohim. Meaning several. Then you have God and Jesus being one. So big god, and his little god. His little Jesus so to speak.

While the bible goes on to say it is a monotheistic religion. And so claiming the other gods (elohim) are just fallen angels who went down to earth to have sex with the daughters of men. And in doing so, their little men, grew into giants. Another sexual metaphor I suspect. Surely the bible can be much more perverse if you want it to be.

And then finally it claims all men are godly.

So we all have our little fallen Jesuses that are able to rise again and again if given the right blessing.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2308364]Well, I think there is certainly some sort of metaphor around there. According to Genesis, even the bible admits there are several gods, or elohim. Meaning several. Then you have God and Jesus being one. So big god, and his little god. His little Jesus so to speak.

While the bible goes on to say it is a monotheistic religion. And so claiming the other gods (elohim) are just fallen angels who went down to earth to have sex with the daughters of men. And in doing so, their little men, grew into giants. Another sexual metaphor I suspect. Surely the bible can be much more perverse if you want it to be.

And then finally it claims all men are godly.

So we all have our little fallen Jesuses that are able to rise again and again if given the right blessing.[/QUOTE]Some prostitutes being dependent on religions can be common thing around globe, it is merely human psychology, when you are in hard situation and feeling weak or scared, human need something to depend on, so religion is one of it and it make sense that many of these girls are from nations where religions are strongly engraved into their culture, up bringing in household as well into their education. It is better they depend on religion than drug, alcohol, man like pimp, but maybe they depend on all of these I mention because all of the things I mention including religion target those who or when they are weak.

However, monger and religions are hard to connect unless the guy is bit insane and got these bible stories and miracles all twisted and got the whole thing wrongly to their own self righteous lust that are out of control. I do know why some monger who dress prostitute as nuns and fucking them though, some human are feeling oppressed in some way and like taboo, so I guess them fucking nuns get them even more excited due to feeling of doing taboo thing. It is not my thing to do because play, but I understand the mental behind it. I prefer girls being all nude with no clothes on rather than dress up as something LOL.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2308364]So we all have our little fallen Jesuses that are able to rise again and again if given the right blessing.[/QUOTE]Especially given the right BBBJ (bareback baptism job) treatment.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2308303]

I cannot understand why religion is connected to prostitution unless you see it as a sinner and not a job.

[/QUOTE]I guess you have been to Germany at least a few times. Have you seen any Muslim girl wearing Muslim scarf who is a prostitute?

It is not a matter of me or you seeing her as a sinner. It is God seeing her as a sinner, based on Christian Church principles and teachings from Bible. If she were really religious, she wouldn't violate the principles and teachings of Christian Church from Bible, in this case, she wouldn't violate the Christian religious principle that a prostitute is a sinner.

I don't want to discuss further about this seemingly irrelevant issue, so this is my last post on this subject.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2308553]
If she were really religious, she wouldn't violate the principles and teachings of Christian Church from Bible, in this case, she wouldn't violate the Christian religious principle that a prostitute is a sinner.
[/QUOTE]According to the Bible, Jesus preferred to hang out with WGs than poker-assed religious types. Who wouldn't? On one occasion he told a group of church elders: [I]"I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you."[/I] (Matthew 21:31-32).

Imagine the expression on their faces.

Jesus and I have had our differences of opinion, especially about tax collectors, but it is only fair to let you know where he stood.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2308553]I guess you have been to Germany at least a few times. Have you seen any Muslim girl wearing Muslim scarf who is a prostitute?

It is not a matter of me or you seeing her as a sinner. It is God seeing her as a sinner, based on Christian Church principles and teachings from Bible. If she were really religious, she wouldn't violate the principles and teachings of Christian Church from Bible, in this case, she wouldn't violate the Christian religious principle that a prostitute is a sinner.

I don't want to discuss further about this seemingly irrelevant issue, so this is my last post on this subject.[/QUOTE]It is a sensitive matter, I understand and I see your point.

No problem not discussing it further but in God eyes we are all sinners then and we know that. If we were not we should all wait to get married to have sex.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2307695]Rolled up around 10 and like a lot of these clubs it is very discreet from the street. Uber guy dropped me off but I had to poke around a bit to find it. It is in fact at the pin but only identified by two massive wooden doors. Push your way in and you will see another door labeled Aphrodisia.

Upon arrival a hostess greets me in the hall and explains the process and prices (yes it's 280 a half! But it scales better. 380 for 45 minutes is the best deal. 500 an hour). On your right is another door where you enter the club. And wow. I mean wow. This was a Thursday night and there must have been 30 girls and maybe 5-6 guys. I was stunned how many girls there were and they were all slim and pretty..[/QUOTE]I don't know where you are from, for your standards for beauty level, but maybe I was very unlucky on Thursday 21 March, but I found a really average casting for looks at Aphrodisia. Bad start for this day because even sunny, couldn't reach top of la Grave la Meije, because of wind, upper lift was closed, really bad luck because could have skied down to la Grave 1450, when yesterday could only down to P1 2000, because no more snow below, but great now wild Girose glacier only for me on a Saturday, great powder on top and great extreme, icy run above lake, even more extreme than Verbier on Friday. So on 21, I decided to drive 500 kms, to take risk to go to Switzerland, to discover high class Aphrodisia. Arrived at 7 pm, after testing some Albanian border holes with France and Germany, staff is welcoming, I was the only guy at 7 pm, in this small bar, with about 40/45 girls when more than 50 on tagesplan, many sitting where bottles behind the bar, all smiling staring at me, but I didn't see any wow look like I saw in Germany on last Saturday somewhere where girls are low level for me, but she is a beauty for my eyes and great for love in bed. I saw only 1 small blond with short black dress who stared at me, smiling, for 2 hours I stayed there, drinking only 2 orange juice because they don t have other fruit juice, but tattoos on her left arm and leg, smoker, were not so chic than her face and not high elegance like my new discovery. I saw some girls who worked in Germany before like Beatrice ex Oase and ex Sharks, too much silicon and too many tattoos for too many girls. In Germany, for 50 € , I would have tried the blond, a small brunette in late 20's or 30's, maybe 1 or 2 others, but not more among more than 40 on this Thursday evening which is said to be the best casting day, but had many prettier girls in Germany or at Globe, History Basel Liestal, even so pretty, super GFE Miki at Westside Frauenfeld, level of looks really don t worth 280 CHF rate, Aphrodisia is really too expensive for very average casting for looks, can t compete with Globe and with some girls in Germany, only for Swiss working in small Zurich city or tourists, or maybe I was the unluckiest guy on this Thursday, so I drove 500 kms back, with heavy full balls, for my best 3 Valleys run since 2015 on Friday. At least, even sometimes complicated, great free ride Winter, taking 6 times Mont Gelé Verbier new lift, when some WGs are ready for anything for money, they could see being ready for anything extreme for passion, for 4 hours, and much more enjoyable than my Aphrodisia discovery. Have to finish in Val the Isere Tignes for a wonderful sporty, extreme with adrenaline Winter. I will return to Globe, but really no hurry for Aphrodisia, or after Globe if a average casting day. Maybe I m too picky, but my real life girlfriends were prettier.

OK I'm going back to Germany again after visiting Globe almost exclusively for the past 9 months. I'll be there during my Easter break and want to know which days it's best to visit the following clubs (I only have Monday to Thursday in Hessen / NRW before going on to Berlin for the weekend for other non FKK matters (though I might pop into Artemis one evening to see how it's changed since the new Law back in 2017).

So the clubs and potential days of my visit are:

Samya (Monday or Thursday).

Sharks and Oase. (Wed / Thu) or might try to do both in one day first Sharks and then Oase or the other way round if the weather is sunny!

Palace I'll visit for sure on Tuesday and / Or Monday (if I don't do Samya on Monday).

I'm undecided about whether I should pop over to Hamburg from Berlin to check out Harmony (do Martha, Mika and Melissa still work? The website doesn't show working girls anymore!) and Atmos.

Anyway my main purpose of this visit is more nostalgia rather than just FKKs (I lived in Germany for a long time) but my best memories are linked to them so I'll definitely check some out though I'm kind of worried I'll be comparing everything to Globe now.

Out of curiosity is anyone been to DV recently or Oceans? I heard that ex Palace Indira worked at DV under a different name this was over a year or two ago and I didn't get a chance to go till now!

Those who attack prostitutes or gay people as sinners seem to conveniently ignore some basic axioms of Christianity:

All men (and women) are sinners.

Only God can judge the souls of men by assigning sin.

The worst sin of all is to sin against God by trying to take God's role.

If I hadn't known better, I would almost think all of you were hardcore religious people by now.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2308611]Bad start for this day because even sunny, couldn't reach top of la Grave la Meije, because of wind, upper lift was closed.[/QUOTE]Have you ever tried one of the ski bikes? They seem pretty thrilling to me. High levels of danger.

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2308725]Have you ever tried one of the ski bikes? They seem pretty thrilling to me. High levels of danger.[/QUOTE]I'm afraid, even still always improving my technique, to be able to control, but attracted by danger, when I was asked on Friday if I would run my 2 extreme Verbier spots whole day, when I was in lift. I went for 4 runs, 2 for last year, I never thought I would be able, but I did 5 , because I didn t like my third, and I could more, but it would have been dangerous risk to break myself and even after extreme la Grave on Saturday, my tour is not finished yet. I climb with bicycle on Summer and look forward next Summer as soon ski will be finished, but don t know about your ski bike. But I know and experienced again, with passion You can do more than what seem impossible, even when others tell You it s impossible to achieve, but they don t know for You because they are not You. My way to go beyond limits, to improve and enjoy.

I wish your holidays are good, some of your girls at your home, asked me about You. When I was so frustrated for 1 year about my final I missed on last Winter, I already made my double final, also extended La Grave to 2 Alps crossing twice Girose glacier, will keep on working hard to make my Winter being really great, and found a new dreamed girl, but she will have to wait for after ski. Kate and EMA already had to wait for after ski.

[QUOTE=Sybarite2006;2308636]OK I'm going back to Germany again after visiting Globe almost exclusively for the past 9 months. I'll be there during my Easter break and want to know which days it's best to visit the following clubs (I only have Monday to Thursday in Hessen / NRW before going on to Berlin for the weekend for other non FKK matters (though I might pop into Artemis one evening to see how it's changed since the new Law back in 2017).

So the clubs and potential days of my visit are:

Samya (Monday or Thursday).

Sharks and Oase. (Wed / Thu) or might try to do both in one day first Sharks and then Oase or the other way round if the weather is sunny!

Palace I'll visit for sure on Tuesday and / Or Monday (if I don't do Samya on Monday).

I'm undecided about whether I should pop over to Hamburg from Berlin to check out Harmony (do Martha, Mika and Melissa still work? The website doesn't show working girls anymore!) and Atmos![/QUOTE]Samya on Thursday after 6 pm.

On Wednesday, Sharks or Oase.

Palace have 50 € entry before 5 pm, but wake up after 7 pm, even German Kylie works early. Ukrainian Anastasia doesn't start too late.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2308772]Samya on Thursday after 6 pm.

On Wednesday, Sharks or Oase.

Palace have 50 entry before 5 pm, but wake up after 7 pm, even German Kylie works early. Ukrainian Anastasia doesn't start too late.[/QUOTE]What time does Kylie works now, from 11 AM or? She used to be after 8 girl.

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2308725]Have you ever tried one of the ski bikes? They seem pretty thrilling to me. High levels of danger.[/QUOTE]I heard they rent some of those nice little toys in neuss skihalle. Must be pretty hardcore!

Hello friends,

In two weeks I will fly to Frankfurt and I would like to visit 3 FKK clubs.

I have good experience with the Sharks and on the other hand I have had a less-good-experiences at the Oase and the Palace (too much upselling and every request is defined as "Extra" which raises the price from 50 to 100).

I've read many posts here and I've managed to understand that apart from the Sharks, it's worth a visit to Mainhatan. Indeed?

I would be happy to get recommendations for other FKK clubs with a good lineup and fair treatment from the girls.

Something like Samia and the Living Room at NRW.

Many thanks.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2308855]What time does Kylie works now, from 11 AM or? She used to be after 8 girl.[/QUOTE]She was already when I arrived at 5 pm for entry 50. She left at 9 pm.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2308855]What time does Kylie works now, from 11 AM or? She used to be after 8 girl.[/QUOTE]Last 3 times I went she was there and I entered around 21.00. I am not sure how long she was there maybe not till late.

[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2308891]I heard they rent some of those nice little toys in neuss skihalle. Must be pretty hardcore![/QUOTE]I saw when I leave LR on autobahn, indication for Neuss skihalle. After ridiculous Dome in Dubai desert where Sheikh Al Makhtoum wanted a Worldcup race, but Gunther Oara just laughed, so after extreme Verbier, even more extreme la Grave la Meije, as soon I succeed to finish my great Winter 2019 free ride tour, I will go to Neuss for my final with closed eyes, straight down playing blind. Germany have some great skier: Viky Rebensburg of course, Felix Neureuther even just retired, Tomas Dressen even injured, Stefan Lutz, Josef Ferstl, Andreas Sanders, do they train at Neuss? Or maybe Dubai?

Any recommendations for around Dusseldorf late Tuesday and Wednesday around 11 pm-12 am arrival? Been to LR too many times and Goldentime is closed at 1. Interested in early to mid 20's nice optics and thin. Could you also include the price of entrance and service thanks. I've only had experience w / YY, GT, LR, Samya.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2309035]She was already when I arrived at 5 pm for entry 50. She left at 9 pm.[/QUOTE]Bit like Stella, she worked only after 8 pm, but toward end of her career in FKK, she began from morning shift like at noon.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2309202]Bit like Stella, she worked only after 8 pm, but toward end of her career in FKK, she began from morning shift like at noon.[/QUOTE]I remember Stella working in the afternoon on my 10 May 2014 Palace discovery, low level WG telling she doesn't sell love, when a superb, chic Romanian sold me love at 4. 30 am at World on that night. On next Saturday, I forgot Stella, but was back at World for love as I asked her if she would work, have sometimes love 3 times on night with her. Sweet kisser.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2308766]I'm afraid, even still always improving my technique, to be able to control, but attracted by danger, when I was asked on Friday if I would run my 2 extreme Verbier spots whole day, when I was in lift. I went for 4 runs, 2 for last year, I never thought I would be able, but I did 5 , because I didn t like my third, and I could more, but it would have been dangerous risk to break myself and even after extreme la Grave on Saturday, my tour is not finished yet. I climb with bicycle on Summer and look forward next Summer as soon ski will be finished, but don t know about your ski bike. But I know and experienced again, with passion You can do more than what seem impossible, even when others tell You it s impossible to achieve, but they don t know for You because they are not You. My way to go beyond limits, to improve and enjoy.

I wish your holidays are good, some of your girls at your home, asked me about You. When I was so frustrated for 1 year about my final I missed on last Winter, I already made my double final, also extended La Grave to 2 Alps crossing twice Girose glacier, will keep on working hard to make my Winter being really great, and found a new dreamed girl, but she will have to wait for after ski. Kate and EMA already had to wait for after ski.[/QUOTE]For your all over German speaking part of FKK car trips almost every weekend, Lancer Evolution or WRX STI is recommended, if properly tuned, one can have adrenaline on the road with one of those two rally car, on the slope with your ski and finally in the FKK on your woman type girls LOL!

Remember back when almost everyone was freaking out about "the new law" and predicting AO / BBFS would be dead, and BBBJ's would be very rare, and guys would be risking arrest and huge fines?

I should have taken bets.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2309301]Remember back when almost everyone was freaking out about "the new law" and predicting AO / BBFS would be dead, and BBBJ's would be very rare, and guys would be risking arrest and huge fines?

I should have taken bets.[/QUOTE]Yeah, me too should have taken bets.

AO / BBFS is happening in the mainstream clubs more after the law, though mostly with the younger girls who started after the law. Funny that it's not extra with them but older hags think they can charge extra even for BBBJ. Go figure!

[QUOTE=Gino02;2309323]Yeah, me too should have taken bets.

AO / BBFS is happening in the mainstream clubs more after the law, though mostly with the younger girls who started after the law. Funny that it's not extra with them but older hags think they can charge extra even for BBBJ. Go figure!.[/QUOTE]I think most mongers were not freaking out about no BBBJ after new law, but most mongers were freaking out that girls will use new law to charge you extra for BBBJ, which turned out to be right, very sadly.

It still is depend on which FKK and what kind of relation you have with girls you session with, but what is true now is that one can forget about going to room for 30 min 50/60 euro session and get BBBJ, DATY and fuck in few position in two specific clubs which are Artemis and palace.

Back then before the law, I sometimes have girls I am not too sure to session for long time, but I just want to go with her for just 30 min 50/60 euro for nice BBBJ, DATY, fuck in few position session and if lucky even DFK was included, but as predicted, one can forget about such session for such price in Artemis and palace in most cases if not all cases.

The good thing is that in NRW FKK except oceans tend to be more better for service and sticking to same service level as before the law and 50 euro session is still possible if one is not sure of girl. This is maybe due to nrw clubs tend to have younger girls to the industry, so they are still not too polluted by hustling style of FKK veteran girls. So you are right, young and new tend to provide better service and more relaxed, no annoying negotiation that make you feel like you are dealing with street hustlers are not needed in nrw clubs.

Try to get a BBBJ in Samya or PHG and you'll see it's not so common anymore.

[QUOTE=Palcon;2309184]Any recommendations for around Dusseldorf late Tuesday and Wednesday around 11 pm-12 am arrival? Been to LR too many times and Goldentime is closed at 1. Interested in early to mid 20's nice optics and thin. Could you also include the price of entrance and service thanks. I've only had experience w / YY, GT, LR, Samya.[/QUOTE]So late on week days, if you need diner, Samya or Mondial or Oceans or Dolce Vita. If you don't need, LR, but not best casting days. Maybe You should try escort. Kaufmich.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2309301]Remember back when almost everyone was freaking out about "the new law" and predicting AO / BBFS would be dead, and BBBJ's would be very rare, and guys would be risking arrest and huge fines?

I should have taken bets.[/QUOTE]No, but I do remember when most of us were saying to keep our mouth hush about BBBJ girls until it all blew over. Also remember BBBJ girls getting kicked out of Mainhattan. No one here ever took the fines seriously.

[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2309349]Try to get a BBBJ in Samya or PHG and you'll see it's not so common anymore.[/QUOTE]It is with regret, but such trend will eventually spread to all clubs, so we might as well as enjoy while old rule last.

We will always get BBBJ, but with extra cost followed by annoying negotiations. I guess what once was normal was no longer normal theory very much apply in FKK industry too.

As for good old regular girls still provides BBBJ will eventually retire and replaced by new girls who will bring on new rule as default rule on our face because even we may be mongering for years in German FKK, we are just another new clients for new girls, so let us enjoy the last moment while it last because some clubs still remain as good as it used to be for service.

There always been mild price cartel between girls and in some clubs, it works in favor for monger giving us fair deal that make us want to repeat, but in some clubs, it make rational fly in monger to wonder if it is better to fly into Zurich due to the price range being similar.

The good thing is that, recent 100 euro 30 min up sell attempts in some German clubs are not too bad, if they perform as they promised and if 30 min is 30 min like in globe. It is 200% increase in price, but if service is good as in globe.

Instead of renovating clubs to make it worst most of time or add things that are not so needed in FKK, what all FKK rooms should have is a clock in room.

Just simple clock in room would be really nice thing to have on wall of all FKK session room, so it gives hope for 30 min is 30 min and not 20 min.

I do not mind 30 min session to end at around 27 min or even 25 min, but what I do not like is 30 min ending at 17 min and I often not bother to look at my watch or we do not have to deal with some girls mysterious watch LOL.

Plus, during session, I want to look at clock to know how long I got left approximately, so I can enjoy more relaxed manner.

Sometimes, dealing with some girls in FKK are like dealing with some street hustlers and just simple medium size clock on walls of every FKK session room would be nice and such clock renovation can be done for let say like 30 euro per room.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2309277]I remember Stella working in the afternoon on my 10 May 2014 Palace discovery, low level WG telling she doesn't sell love, when a superb, chic Romanian sold me love at 4. 30 am at World on that night. On next Saturday, I forgot Stella, but was back at World for love as I asked her if she would work, have sometimes love 3 times on night with her. Sweet kisser.[/QUOTE]It is incredible how you bother to remember the date of your visit to clubs, I do not remember the name of the girls or month I went to club, but I do remember face, body parts and how the session is quite precisely.

I think I saw Stella last in winter 2016, I think. I do not like commenting on girls session, but now she is retired, so. With her, you had to go long time, then she will DFK etc. , she can be good performer and really nice person, fun to be with in room and few cum was possible too within time you spent in room, not just one cum and out of room, it is just that she prefer longer room than 50 euro 30 min. She was all natural body with beautiful face, but bit thick body for my taste toward the end of her career, she will be missed.

However, why do you want girl to sell you love in brothel? LOL. It is each their own, but I am just curious. Once I met girl and she told me that she just finished session with guest that want her to keep on saying fuck me daddy, through out the session which she felt uncomfortable doing LOL.

In my case, given that she is a beautiful girl that pass my optical test, I just want her to do all like DFK, DATY, few positions etc. I do not care too much if she give me imitating love session, I may feel bit odd if girls do that in brothel because I am fully aware that I am in brothel.

I also remember once in Artemis down stairs near cinema, where there are curtain room with semi walls, there was a guy who was so loud LOL but loud like it is some kind of torture going on LOL, it was too much that made me laugh.

There seriously are many different type of people in FKK with different fetish.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2309350]So late on week days, if you need diner, Samya or Mondial or Oceans or Dolce Vita. If you don't need, LR, but not best casting days. Maybe You should try escort. Kaufmich.[/QUOTE]How is Dolce Vita and Acapulco Gold? Went to oceans and there was too much upselling would rather go to LR but the LU is crappy during the week.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2309628]Instead of renovating clubs to make it worst most of time or add things that are not so needed in FKK, what all FKK rooms should have is a clock in room.

Just simple clock in room would be really nice thing to have on wall of all FKK session room, so it gives hope for 30 min is 30 min and not 20 min.

I do not mind 30 min session to end at around 27 min or even 25 min, but what I do not like is 30 min ending at 17 min and I often not bother to look at my watch or we do not have to deal with some girls mysterious watch LOL.

Plus, during session, I want to look at clock to know how long I got left approximately, so I can enjoy more relaxed manner.

Sometimes, dealing with some girls in FKK are like dealing with some street hustlers and just simple medium size clock on walls of every FKK session room would be nice and such clock renovation can be done for let say like 30 euro per room.[/QUOTE]With girls new to me, I just put alarms (usually at 20 min, and 29 min mark) on my smart watch when we start. I do this openly with the girl asking "should we call it a start time now"? Most girls get the message instantly and do not try to cheat time again. Few had problems with it immediately and few never wanted to do a repeat session with me LOL.

Sharks has few rooms with big wall clocks but most of them do not work any longer, probably need new batteries.

I would like some good lighting and big mirrors in the rooms, preferably in celing and at least one side of the room 😁.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2309615]It is with regret, but such trend will eventually spread to all clubs, so we might as well as enjoy while old rule last.

We will always get BBBJ, but with extra cost followed by annoying negotiations. I guess what once was normal was no longer normal theory very much apply in FKK industry too.

As for good old regular girls still provides BBBJ will eventually retire and replaced by new girls who will bring on new rule as default rule on our face because even we may be mongering for years in German FKK, we are just another new clients for new girls, so let us enjoy the last moment while it last because some clubs still remain as good as it used to be for service.

There always been mild price cartel between girls and in some clubs, it works in favor for monger giving us fair deal that make us want to repeat, but in some clubs, it make rational fly in monger to wonder if it is better to fly into Zurich due to the price range being similar.

The good thing is that, recent 100 euro 30 min up sell attempts in some German clubs are not too bad, if they perform as they promised and if 30 min is 30 min like in globe. It is 200% increase in price, but if service is good as in globe.[/QUOTE]Have a watch, then girls look if mine is Rolex, when I ski, climb, swim, shower and fuck with. When it's dreamed delight, then I let time go.

[QUOTE=Palcon;2309801]How is Dolce Vita and Acapulco Gold? Went to oceans and there was too much upselling would rather go to LR but the LU is crappy during the week.[/QUOTE]LR is far from crappy during the week. 6's has probably a better LU. Aca gold has good comments from friends recently but the ambiance is special.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2309851]With girls new to me, I just put alarms (usually at 20 min, and 29 min mark) on my smart watch when we start. I do this openly with the girl asking "should we call it a start time now"? Most girls get the message instantly and do not try to cheat time again. Few had problems with it immediately and few never wanted to do a repeat session with me LOL.

Sharks has few rooms with big wall clocks but most of them do not work any longer, probably need new batteries..[/QUOTE]Well most girls are in FKK are fair to me, but you know once in awhile, I come across funny one with funny watch of hers LOL.

I have not gone as stop watch their ass yet LOL, but what I do is that while I am negotiating in room for session, I tell them OK now is such and such time on my watch and I show them, then I began talking, usually it is OK. Some time, I get funny ones who say shit like no you did not say that time, but it was this time or no on my watch it was this such and such blah blah blah etc etc. LOL.

You know, once in a while in FKK, we encounter the situation where you are dealing with real childish street hustlers LOL, I hate this feeling, so it would be better if all FKK just do one simple cheap renovation called putting a clock in every session rooms because in some FKK with some girls 30 min is 17 and 60 min is like 45 min LOL.

I remember Geraldine of Artemis who was most prompt for time, she wears watch other way round, so she can look at watch very subtly while she is doing me good, so she can divide time right for each sexual acts within given time, for time management and session quality, she was real pro and best. The record was when I asked her blow me for 45 min then fuck and she did blow me for 45 min exact, man, that is what I call a la carte, how FKK should be and it is amazing how much these girls pretty small face jaws, lip and pussy can take everyday doing that multiple time while they are working in FKK.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2309928]Well most girls are in FKK are fair to me, but you know once in awhile, I come across funny one with funny watch of hers LOL.

I have not gone as stop watch their ass yet LOL, but what I do is that while I am negotiating in room for session, I tell them OK now is such and such time on my watch and I show them, then I began talking, usually it is OK. Some time, I get funny ones who say shit like no you did not say that time, but it was this time or no on my watch it was this such and such blah blah blah etc etc. LOL.

You know, once in a while in FKK, we encounter the situation where you are dealing with real childish street hustlers LOL, I hate this feeling, so it would be better if all FKK just do one simple cheap renovation called putting a clock in every session rooms because in some FKK with some girls 30 min is 17 and 60 min is like 45 min LOL.

I remember Geraldine of Artemis who was most prompt for time, she wears watch other way round, so she can look at watch very subtly while she is doing me good, so she can divide time right for each sexual acts within given time, for time management and session quality, she was real pro and best. The record was when I asked her blow me for 45 min then fuck and she did blow me for 45 min exact, man, that is what I call a la carte, how FKK should be and it is amazing how much these girls pretty small face jaws, lip and pussy can take everyday doing that multiple time while they are working in FKK.[/QUOTE]Did this Geraldine complete PMI Certification? 😁

[QUOTE=Gino02;2310017]Did this Geraldine complete PMI Certification? 😁[/QUOTE]She definitely completed Prostitute Management Certification LOL!

She is supposedly retired now, so I hope she got her self Project Management Certification in out side brothel world, but I must say, if prostitute manage to carry on with normal carrier after brothel life, some of them will do very well, they are good at managing people after dealing with so many men after men LOL.

However, in reality, how many time did I she supposedly retired from industry girl coming back to FKK after one or two years. It is not easy to walk away from fast cash, it is not easy money, but I guess it become easy once they get used to sucking cocks and taking many cocks inside their body, I guess it is bit similar to breaking in young horses, once they get used to it, for them become easy fast cash in FKK. It is quite astonishing how human can adapt to situation no matter how hard it is. Imagine taking in fresh new penis in the mouth, pussy and anal every single day for years beside their limited holiday they choose to take, plus they got to deal with us mongers hentai demands of all kind on daily basis LOL.

Thanks to young beautiful brave prostitutes from all over Europe that we hentai can thrive LOL!

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2309906]Have a watch, then girls look if mine is Rolex, when I ski, climb, swim, shower and fuck with. When it's dreamed delight, then I let time go.[/QUOTE]I got watch all the time, but some girls seems to have different clock to mine and yes mine is actually Rolex LOL.

Now that I think about it, with two rooms I did only in globe in my only single visit to Globe, if I remember correctly, both rooms had a clock on the wall.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2309928]Well most girls are in FKK are fair to me, but you know once in awhile, I come across funny one with funny watch of hers LOL.

I have not gone as stop watch their ass yet LOL, but what I do is that while I am negotiating in room for session, I tell them OK now is such and such time on my watch and I show them, then I began talking, usually it is OK. Some time, I get funny ones who say shit like no you did not say that time, but it was this time or no on my watch it was this such and such blah blah blah etc etc. LOL.[/QUOTE]I would agree with you comments about most ladies being honest on time if we were posting 5 or 6 years ago. I've seen more fast running clocks in the last 3 years than ever before. The favorite seems to be, "we are five minutes over the thirty minute interval, so you have to pay the extra €50".

My reply, OK, twenty two minutes for you to perform BJ, and I have ran my timer on my phone with ladies who do this.

Does anybody know if blonde, Czech "Gina" at Palace retired too, or is she still "soliciting"? Gina is the first FKK girl I ever fucked. She was good buddies with Stella too (who I never did). Wonder if she's still around? Gina? She had all that surgery and messed up her body!

[QUOTE=MrHo;2310036]I got watch all the time, but some girls seems to have different clock to mine and yes mine is actually Rolex LOL.[/QUOTE]Why are all the girls so crazy about getting a Rolex? I have noticed they all have some stereotypes like one is brainwashing the other. They all use those red Londoner condoms, they all love champagne, they all love Rolex, they even tell you the same things when they get mad, like one is copying each other.

(Sorry for the repeated message, but it needs to be said.).

The "new law" scare should be over now. There is no reason to deny "doing something illegal. " FKK's are not being shut down. Guys are not being fined. Perhaps there is some competitive problem among the girls due to reviews, but guess what, that's *always* been the case.

The greatest danger is that by not openly discussing AO or BBBJ it will contribute to the notion that it's "special" and thus higher priced than it need be.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2310249]Why are all the girls so crazy about getting a Rolex? I have noticed they all have some stereotypes like one is brainwashing the other. They all use those red Londoner condoms, they all love champagne, they all love Rolex, they even tell you the same things when they get mad, like one is copying each other.[/QUOTE]Because Rolex mean money, they also ask you about your job, if you are married? If you have children? What is your car? They all look at my watch, beautiful they say, but they don't know less than 200 € bought. My girls don't try to fuck me about time or money, I think they prefer to keep me for client.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2310249]Why are all the girls so crazy about getting a Rolex? I have noticed they all have some stereotypes like one is brainwashing the other. They all use those red Londoner condoms, they all love champagne, they all love Rolex, they even tell you the same things when they get mad, like one is copying each other.[/QUOTE]A Rolex is just a symbol. Our society today needs is full of symbols. They mean differ not things for different people of course. FKK girls in general come from the lower strata of society, and status symbols resonate powerfully with them. So, a Rolex, a Porsche, etc. Imply a lot of wealth to them. A guy may have just half a million dollars net worth and wear a Rolex and drive a Porsche, and another fella may have a 5 million in the bank and wear a Seiko and drive a Toyota. The FKK girl doesn't get to see whether you live in a small rundown rented apartment in Lewisham or own a penthouse in Knightsbridge, a 150 ft yacht and have £20 million in your brokerage account. So, she can only make an assessment based on what she can see and using the limited knowledge she has.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2310240]Does anybody know if blonde, Czech "Gina" at Palace retired too, or is she still "soliciting"? Gina is the first FKK girl I ever fucked. She was good buddies with Stella too (who I never did). Wonder if she's still around? Gina? She had all that surgery and messed up her body![/QUOTE]Hey The Cane,

I was in FKK Palace in early Feb after an eighteen month absence. Didn't see her. Most likely has moved on by now.

If you looking for some Palace action, I would definitely recommend Lara. Brazilian MILF with dark hair and exotic looking. Amazing six pack stripper toned body. Fantastic blowjob and overall great service.

Also another would be Jennifer. Half British and half Turkish or Greek or Argentinian. Really hot looking with glasses and long wavy hair. Loves anal.

For a hot looking blond with a nice juicy pink asshole then Sofia is your girl. She loves to take it up the bum. Polish but lives in Hamburg. Only caveat is she works in FKK Sharks and likes to upsell.

By the way, may hit you up in a few months for some tips on Brazil (Rio de J. and Sao Paulo). Planning a trip there in September. I seem to be developing a fondness for some South American pussy of late. Fucked a really cute teeny looking Colombian by the name of Samira at Estark Whiskeria in Madrid earlier this month.

Howie

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2310190]I would agree with you comments about most ladies being honest on time if we were posting 5 or 6 years ago. I've seen more fast running clocks in the last 3 years than ever before. The favorite seems to be, "we are five minutes over the thirty minute interval, so you have to pay the extra 50".

My reply, OK, twenty two minutes for you to perform BJ, and I have ran my timer on my phone with ladies who do this.[/QUOTE]Yeah, like I wrote, sometimes with some girls in FKK especially recently as you said, I feel like I am dealing with childish street hustlers LOL, I mean things I sometimes have to argue is like going back to kid like my watch was such and such time and she say her watch was such and such time, my watch is better etc. Often they back down because they seems to still have some kind of guilty conscious? Of some sort and they say things like really? And they back off LOL.

I must say, most girls are fine and fair enough, these scam attempts only happen once every two years, but in those few time, I sometime want to ask them, does this stupid strategy of yours or I don't even want to call that strategy, but scam works on any client? LOL.

The funny thing is that, when you are polite and kind in FKK, these girls tend to mistake politeness and kindness for weakness. I think this is the culture where they come from, any kindness is seen as weakness is the culture and environment these girls brought up, I think that is where it come from.

The thing is, I am polite and kind in FKK, till these girls [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] me off wrongly and my other side comes out called I cut the session to 50 euro for 30 min session at 29th minutes LOL! The desk is always fair enough as long as you explain yourself calmly and you paid the time you were in the room, they got security camera to check how long you were in room, I never had any problem.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2310249]Why are all the girls so crazy about getting a Rolex? I have noticed they all have some stereotypes like one is brainwashing the other. They all use those red Londoner condoms, they all love champagne, they all love Rolex, they even tell you the same things when they get mad, like one is copying each other.[/QUOTE]The sad thing though and you are right, but with these girls, at one point, I liked to think they are doing this hard job called prostitution in FKK for their blight future, but they are not LOL. Most of them are doing this job for mostly material things or pimp / boyfriend who put her in there or plastic surgeries LOL.

Sad and stupid, but I guess it is worst personality side of women got stronger in environment of brothel. They do all this job and they often leave clubs with nothing when they retire, I only know few success case out of this industry, but oddly they often come back to FKK few years after retirement again. , then after while they are gone for good. These girls have few retirements.

Girls could use this industry as stepping stone, but they end up getting blinded too much by materialistic things.

As for condoms being same, they buy that condom from club because it is easier and safer because some clients put holes in their condoms. I use my own condom and they let me thankfully, I like my rubber thin LOL!

[QUOTE=MrHo;2310036]I got watch all the time, but some girls seems to have different clock to mine and yes mine is actually Rolex LOL.

Now that I think about it, with two rooms I did only in globe in my only single visit to Globe, if I remember correctly, both rooms had a clock on the wall.[/QUOTE]Well, yours is not certified unless you return it to Switzerland to be serviced by a certified Rolex shop at least every 3 years when you come to visit the Sauna Clubs. One of the things most of the ladies who discuss wanting a Rolex with me don't realize, along with the fact that the watch loses nearly 50% of it's value on day one out of the shop, and the models change very little over the years. The only good part is that they keep that initial depreciated value unless they are damaged. Buying a used certified one is not a bad choice like buying a new one.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2310249]Why are all the girls so crazy about getting a Rolex? I have noticed they all have some stereotypes like one is brainwashing the other. They all use those red Londoner condoms, they all love champagne, they all love Rolex, they even tell you the same things when they get mad, like one is copying each other.[/QUOTE]The condoms are cheap and sold by the clubs, when you pay champagne they got some money back, for example 50 euro in World, Rolex is a famous brand in Romania always possible to sell the watch if needed.

[QUOTE=Palcon;2309801]How is Dolce Vita and Acapulco Gold? Went to oceans and there was too much upselling would rather go to LR but the LU is crappy during the week.[/QUOTE]DV is usually considered to have slightly higher upselling than at Oceans. On my DV visit I felt upselling was slightly above Oceans too, but in the room it was the same, as the girl was nice. Although some of the girls at DV are the same as at Oceans, so it may not differ much. And / or at least the same type of girls.

Aca Gold is rumored to have the occasional strangler coming over from other clubs. On my only visit there it felt so bad that I doubt I will ever place my feet inside those doors ever again. Lowest among all the 20 or so FKK's I've been to.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2310267](Sorry for the repeated message, but it needs to be said.).

The "new law" scare should be over now. There is no reason to deny "doing something illegal. " FKK's are not being shut down. Guys are not being fined. Perhaps there is some competitive problem among the girls due to reviews, but guess what, that's *always* been the case.

The greatest danger is that by not openly discussing AO or BBBJ it will contribute to the notion that it's "special" and thus higher priced than it need be.[/QUOTE]I think the BBBJ discussion has resumed pretty openly after the initial probationary period after the law, which I think was just good form in order to see how it panned out. After the initial casualties of girls being kicked out, I don't see many people withholding that info anymore. I'm not sure why you suggest that people are still not talking about it. It has been talked about openly here for over a year now. As for legality, no one that I recall ever took the potential fines seriously.

AO has always been and probably should remain a closed topic in non AO clubs. Clubs definitely kick girls out for providing Ao service and other girls definitely read and talk.

Anytime the governments of this world fuck around with the law and rules and in their infinite wisdom decide to deny or outlaw something that all people want, the only thing that happens is that prices increase.

Adam Smith knew that 200 years ago. Still true today. Was true in prohibition days and true in 2019.

The smart ones knew the German law would just make the girls charge more for the things they were already providing.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2310267](Sorry for the repeated message, but it needs to be said.).

The "new law" scare should be over now. There is no reason to deny "doing something illegal. " FKK's are not being shut down. Guys are not being fined. Perhaps there is some competitive problem among the girls due to reviews, but guess what, that's *always* been the case.

The greatest danger is that by not openly discussing AO or BBBJ it will contribute to the notion that it's "special" and thus higher priced than it need be.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2310330]Well, yours is not certified unless you return it to Switzerland to be serviced by a certified Rolex shop at least every 3 years when you come to visit the Sauna Clubs. One of the things most of the ladies who discuss wanting a Rolex with me don't realize, along with the fact that the watch loses nearly 50% of it's value on day one out of the shop, and the models change very little over the years. The only good part is that they keep that initial depreciated value unless they are damaged. Buying a used certified one is not a bad choice like buying a new one.[/QUOTE]I avoid mentioning the model I got due to anonymity, but there are some models that goes up in value. I bought mine in year 2001 when I was 21 (that is age you become legally adult in Japan) for 8000 CHF and now it is valued at around 25000 to 30000 CHF in Tokyo like around 3 million yen.

Personally, I hate most Rolex, I am more for Audemars Piguet, but there are few models that I like from Rolex because it is limited and the value keep on going up. I never rarely buy expensive things that do not go up in value, well I try to, the same reason why I do not want to marry as women tend to age and become less beautiful.

Plus, I live in Tokyo. Do you know that it is one of top 5 best shopping place in the whole world? Google our shops, we got among the best official brand shops in the world that out stand other cities, I can just service it here at official dealer and they send it back to Switzerland for service with jewelry post service that is insured and you are bit wrong in this as well because also for vintage watches, it is better to service it in Japan due to quality of engineering for vintage watches and cars, we got more official parts and better engineer for certain vintage stuffs because due to our culture of quality and also as a consumer we buy a lot of vintage high end product as we tend to like art a lot and vintage products are in area of art than just materialism.

I answered this since you brought it up, but all this is another story to mongering. What we were discussing before was not about stupid service for watch or stupid watch itself, but we were discussing why girls in FKK do not use money they get in FKK as stepping stone for their life, but they spend not just part, but most of the hard money they make on watches, bags, car or some other stupid things etc. They do not realized that it is limited amount of time they can do this job of prostitution and also it is limited time when they are actually popular as they age and they often age faster in brothel like FKK due to life style. If it is little they spend, I understand, but they spend most of it.

Also relating watch to FKK, I am thinking of buying sport digital watch like suunto or polar for my FKK trip because I tend to think it is better that girls do not see these things on you, then they try to upsell because I have been told staff like but you have money etc. While I am negotiating and I begin to now think that stop watch idea is good idea for session as a guy mentioned earlier.