Kyiv

[QUOTE=NorskKing;2591113]After 4 hours around 2 am, she asked me to take her home. I asked the price and she it is 400 USD and the manager came. She then talked to him in Russian and came back to me telling to give me 300 USD. Probably she renegotiated it for me or it was 300 USD to begin with I do not know or do not care. She did not wanted to have my extra 100 USD which I already said yes to (lots of drinks in me and she gained my trust as a human).[/QUOTE]Good job man. $300 is a standard price across all cubs. But these days it's not easy to pull out a good looking girl even for this price)) I've also got lucky at Princes few months ago and that was a pleasant surprise case Princes used to be a shit-hole and now look much better. Have you visited Rio by any chase? Just curious about your opinion (if you did).

[QUOTE=Langer;2590990]London and Paris are upscale also. I get those prices there. What I was looking for is local information. You can be sure the local hornet male on modest wages are not paying American prices.

Must be places, I'll search and report back.[/QUOTE]If you're looking for cheap sex than you better get English-speaking driver by arena who will take you to apartments. Just tell him that your budget should not exceed $50 per hour so he'll drive you to few shit-hole places so you may find something that fits the bill. Keep in mind. You will not get anything decent in Kiev for less than $150 - and don't even hope that I'm joking.

You can try ukrgo only if you speak Russian and the local guys use this site a lot to get laid, but 90% postings on ukrgo will lead you back to the same cheap apartments or massage places with below-average looking girls.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2591094]Ukrgo is where independents advertise to locals. I don't use the site myself and you probably need Russian or Ukrainian skills:

[URL]http://ukrgo.com/view_subsection.php?id_subsection=146[/URL]

Following is local review site, which is incredibly difficult to navigate, so I am linking to one review, for 800/500, or presumably $29/ hour, $19/ half-hour. So there's your cheap blow and go. Guy wrote a short novella about his experience and appears satisfied (I skipped to the conclusion and didn't read the entire novella):

[URL]http://www.kiev-x.in/viewtopic.php?p=1238[/URL][/QUOTE]Kiev-x. In. Even for guys who don't speak any Russian it's still a great resource because 99.9% of reports on this site are very negative (but truthful)) so if you google phone number for a girl and this site pops up. That simply means a red flag. Local guys do not have any tendency to share positive experiences with each other and mostly visiting girls under $100 hour so the truth is that you will not get any pretty girl for this price.

[QUOTE=ShawMan74;2591968]If you're a local guy who speaks the language, it's your season. And bully for you if you also happen to be young, financially ok, and good-looking to boot. But in a word, this old bird just ain't the same. It may be a jewel city, but it's not the magical place I fell head over heels for back in '19.

I'm going to get back out there again, maybe tomorrow, I don't know. Actually I had a long diagnostic style report written out about Kiev '21 but in reviewing it, I realize I've been demoralized, so I need to be mindful.[/QUOTE]Yesterday I talked via whatsapp with an agent in Kyiv that I've known for a while. He said he knows of about 7 or 8 apartments still open. I will share his contact info with you if you want it ShawMan. Or with any other member who has contributed significantly to the ISG forums. PM me.

[QUOTE=Riina;2591972]Can you please share a link to your contact?[/QUOTE]There's no link, it's a personal contact.

[QUOTE=LuckyNuts;2592041]Yesterday I talked via whatsapp with an agent in Kyiv that I've known for a while. He said he knows of about 7 or 8 apartments still open. I will share his contact info with you if you want it ShawMan. Or with any other member who has contributed significantly to the ISG forums. PM me.[/QUOTE]Yes please, I would like that. Maybe he can help me with finding something more GFE / str with the possibility of LTR.

I think that's been my problem. I know that I'm here for the long haul, and I plan on being a familiar face here for years to come. The quick cold mechanical professional is for horny college kids who have a little less than a week here and about a week's worth of allowance saved up. Her objective is to get the experience over with as soon as possible so as to save her make-up and her energy for the next customer. A job shop mentality screws me over for the kind of value I bring to the table. I deserve a deeper, more committed quality. And that's what's demoralized me.

Well 3 weeks may be lost but I still have 4 more in the chamber, and them's fightin' odds! Down but not out!

Yes, but the thing is that an "average looking girl" in Kiev is absolutely fantastic compared to the average looking girl in any major city in, say, North America. Obesity is not a major problem and femininity is still important. So, they are beautiful, slim, and elegant. Second, some people might prefer amateurs over $400/ hour hard core professionals. As some girls have explained to me, most women are opportunistic semi-pros. If they do have sex, why not get paid for it. I have had girls introduce me to friends, younger friends (a friend's daughter, almost like a niece) , and even older friends (a work collogue or family friend). All these girls have jobs and earn a regular salary. If they like you even a little and earn less than 20 K UAH per month, a couple of thousand UAH is a good added incentive for something that they enjoy anyways. Of course, you have to treat them well, have some charm, and not be too disgusting.

[QUOTE=SprKiev21;2584450]So, just to summarize everything that's been described earlier. I'm not really discouraging you for visiting Kiev. Perhaps if your expectations are on the realistic side than you still may succeed in fucking average looking girls for 2500 UAH per hour. But even if you're ready to spend big bucks to have a good time there is no guarantee that you'll get what you want. Yes there were times long back (almost 20 years ago) when Ukraine and Russia where like epicenters of European mongering and there were hundreds of girls available for a reasonable price. But those times have gone long time ago and today you have much better option getting Ukrainian girl from an escort agency in Paris, Rome, London or Toronto for 300 $-500 $ than if you did the same in Kiev. Specifically, if you're visiting Kiev for a short period of time then your only options are GIA, Apartment and Strip Clubs. You may only succeed in the long-term game trying to find girls of your dreams or whatever but it's more like finding a needle in a haystack.[/QUOTE]

What is with this deal of paying "for taxi"? Why would transportation be charged separately? How about hair? Makeup? The dress? Lingerie? Why stop at "taxi" and not get an itemized bill? It is ridiculous! Transportation is part of the cost of doing business. Besides, unless they are hardened pros and use the service's driver, they probably do not even use a taxi. They use the Metro, just like every other pretty girl in town. I sometimes have offered them to send them my limo, but the offer has always been declined. No, I do not have a limo, but I was confident they would not go for it. I suppose I could have ordered a limo service, or just a private car, but I have never had to do so. There is no such thing as "taxi". It is just part of the cost of doing business. Insist on an all inclusive price.

[QUOTE=ShawMan74;2592138]Yes please, I would like that. Maybe he can help me with finding something more GFE / str with the possibility of LTR.

I think that's been my problem. I know that I'm here for the long haul, and I plan on being a familiar face here for years to come. The quick cold mechanical professional is for horny college kids who have a little less than a week here and about a week's worth of allowance saved up. Her objective is to get the experience over with as soon as possible so as to save her make-up and her energy for the next customer. A job shop mentality screws me over for the kind of value I bring to the table. I deserve a deeper, more committed quality. And that's what's demoralized me.

Well 3 weeks may be lost but I still have 4 more in the chamber, and them's fightin' odds! Down but not out![/QUOTE]Hi ShawMan74, We met when you were here in 2019. IMO, what you are seeking is not an uncommon desire among sex tourists, but for whatever reason, doesn't get discussed much in this forum, and doesn't get properly discussed in any forums. Basically, sounds like you want a sugar baby (babies), probably non-exclusive since you're here only part time. There are sugar baby forums / reddits out there, but they tend to be USA focused and not really applicable to Kyiv.

My own approach was run through a bunch of escorts until I found a keeper, then just see her frequently for years on end. However, given changes in Kyiv over the past few years, that might no longer be the best approach.

I know you have a music / dance interest. IMO, the most satisfying LTR for you is likely to be one that develops organically from that interest. My impression is that poor girls (majority) are going to feel resentful if they don't get money or other material benefits after sex with a foreigner who is 20+ years older. So better to deal with the money issue up front instead of trying to get free sex then waiting until the girl acts resentful. On the other hand, it gives a very bad impression if an older foreigner goes to a civilian-oriented music / dance venue and starts offering money to every girl he likes.

Probably best to wait until girl expresses interest in relationship even after you clearly explain that you're just a tourist who occasionally visits Kyiv, then say something like: "You know, when older foreign men go with much younger girls, then usually give the girl a gift afterwards. But of course if that offends you, I wouldn't do it. " If stated tactfully like that, she probably wouldn't gossip to her friends, regardless of what happens.

Shawman74, you don't use Mamba? As you are in Kiev, you could do the following:

1. Buy the subscription for a week.

2. Upload your best pictures, verify profile and write to the bio something that says you are in Kiev. I guess there should be more text, but I apparently suck with bios so I won't say more.

3. Set your parameters and use the swiping / match making. If a girl checks your profile, she will see that you are looking for younger company.

4. The trick is that on e you have paid subscription, you can access the girls profile from the swipe-app. So each time you see something you like and she has been recently online. Less than a week. You can check if she accepts messages from your age group. Then you can message her.

5. When sending a message, I used a copy-pastable line that informed that I'm in the city and I have xxx amount of money for fun per day. Some replied, some not, one "bikini blond" told that I should double that to 200. But nevertheless, I suspect that with right kind of words and pictures this approach might work as good as it could. Non-english speakers can say yes after initial 'I don't speak English' if you just say it's ok and state the compensation per hour.

These girls don't have to use calendars, so first meeting might be the hardest to arrange. The pics in Mamba are generally fakes, at least those that are searchable through the 'near you' section. The swiping thing shows a lot more girls.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2592160]what you are seeking is not an uncommon desire among sex tourists, but for whatever reason, doesn't get discussed much in this forum, and doesn't get properly discussed in any forums. Basically, sounds like you want a sugar baby (babies), probably non-exclusive since you're here only part time.

My own approach was run through a bunch of escorts until I found a keeper, then just see her frequently for years on end. However, given changes in Kyiv over the past few years, that might no longer be the best approach.

I know you have a music / dance interest. IMO, the most satisfying LTR for you is likely to be one that develops organically from that interest. [/QUOTE]Thank you so much Kozerog, that DOES make me feel better. The fact that bars / clubs are closed through summer for pandemic protocols (for those that don't know) doesn't help. Club heaven is closed through summer. There was an underground rave in podil a couple of weeks ago but that was some lgbt thing with face control, it seemed like a big hassle so I opted out. I guess if I really wanted it bad enough I could've hired a cabby to walk in with me as my "date" HAHA.

I even brought my glowsticks, 3 weeks in and packages are still unopened. And sad.

Well I signed up for DJ lessons later in the week so maybe I can pick the instructor's brain and see where the scene's at (if there is one). That's part of it too, everything is closed / dried up, there's no scene here. I don't even have a point from which to build upon for the next go-'round. Everything I started from 2019 is washed out and I haven't yet found a point I can start back from again. Granted it took me a couple of weeks to get started in 2019, but here in 2021 I feel like I don't have enough time left in front of me once I find a point from which I can start to build around again.

[QUOTE=Desin;2592164]Shawman74, you don't use Mamba? [/QUOTE]

I've tried Mamba, Keksik, and Tinder, all to grand failure. Tinder worked last time but apparently its been completely abandoned (or compromised). The one and only tinder match I had turned out to be a scammer that was about to attempt a plunder had fate not intervened and obstructed the meetup. These local apps have regional filters on them that prevent signup / engagement or page translation.

i even looked at that OMG app but noticed a disturbing number of pics that matched Tinder profiles (that are fraudulent).

to be fair, Tinder "worked" in 2019 once i got the hang of how the system works over here. but like i said before the old bird ain't what she used to be, i don't think there's even a system to speak of anymore.

[QUOTE=ShawMan74;2592170]Thank you so much Kozerog, that DOES make me feel better. The fact that bars / clubs are closed through summer for pandemic protocols (for those that don't know) doesn't help. Club heaven is closed through summer. There was an underground rave in podil a couple of weeks ago but that was some lgbt thing with face control, it seemed like a big hassle so I opted out. I guess if I really wanted it bad enough I could've hired a cabby to walk in with me as my "date" HAHA.

I even brought my glowsticks, 3 weeks in and packages are still unopened. And sad.

Well I signed up for DJ lessons later in the week so maybe I can pick the instructor's brain and see where the scene's at (if there is one). That's part of it too, everything is closed / dried up, there's no scene here. I don't even have a point from which to build upon for the next go-'round. Everything I started from 2019 is washed out and I haven't yet found a point I can start back from again. Granted it took me a couple of weeks to get started in 2019, but here in 2021 I feel like I don't have enough time left in front of me once I find a point from which I can start to build around again.[/QUOTE]Desin gave you all the info you need for success on Mamba. I can't understand how people are having trouble finding dates as I had more prospects than I had time in three weeks. Only two that were 7 or above but all bangable.

I gave you some contacts in 2019 which you didn't use so hesitant to repeat and waste my time. Also told you about the music scene. There was literally a huge electronic festival in the woods last weekend. The biggest electronic music festival in Kyiv starts today. Leave the glow sticks at home as they don't do that here and you probably won't get past face control. There is a crazy amount of music events going on all around the city on weekends but not much during the week.

Unless things have changed in two weeks, bars stay open until 12 but many keep serving until 2-3. Big clubs like Hangover and Caribbean are open until morning. Never been to Heaven but I have seen them posting events on Facebook.

[QUOTE=ShawMan74;2592170]The fact that bars / clubs are closed through summer for pandemic protocols[/QUOTE]Your scene is different from mine. My scene has been open since last July, on a speakeasy basis back during the lockdowns, back in full swing since the last lockdown ended in May of this year. Of course, it is summer now. Lots of students leave town for summer and year-round residents often take vacations in summer.

[QUOTE=Rog123;2592210]Desin gave you all the info you need for success on Mamba. I can't understand how people are having trouble finding dates as I had more prospects than I had time in three weeks. Only two that were 7 or above but all bangable.

I gave you some contacts in 2019 which you didn't use so hesitant to repeat and waste my time. Also told you about the music scene. There was literally a huge electronic festival in the woods last weekend. The biggest electronic music festival in Kyiv starts today. Leave the glow sticks at home as they don't do that here and you probably won't get past face control. There is a crazy amount of music events going on all around the city on weekends but not much during the week.

Unless things have changed in two weeks, bars stay open until 12 but many keep serving until 2-3. Big clubs like Hangover and Caribbean are open until morning. Never been to Heaven but I have seen them posting events on Facebook.[/QUOTE]I'll try playing with mamba some more, who knows it might even start panning out for me. If anything comes out of that I'll mention it.

Do you have a link for the festivals? I had no idea about that one in the woods, or even the one going on right now. THANKS!

P.S. Sorry for being "that guy" at the raves with the glowsticks. I can't help myself haha.