German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

My first post here.

I've done all of my hobbying in Tijuana and USA, but I'm about venture out to Frankfurt in August for 3 days and Paris for 2 days. I've been doing research on the FKK clubs for a couple of months. But I'm ready to soak up as much info as I can.

I'm looking for some detailed info on the four Frankfurt area FKK 's. Mainhattan. Palace. Sharks. Oase.

1 . Size of the clubs and the average female attendance during daytime / night time and weekday / weekend.

2. $$ required for GFE (DFK DATY MSOG mpcfs bbjcim).

3 . Rough estimate on the age of the ladies and their ethnicity.

4 . How to make it to the clubs using bus, train or tram, NOT taxi, from the Frankfurt main hbf station.

I am also interested in visiting the RLD area if time permits. Any info would be appreciated.

I understand everybody has their own views and opinions of the clubs. I'm trying to look at it from all points of views. Thanks.

1. Since I have a thing for Romanian girls (as many of us FKK old timers do!) I'm thinking of going to Romania for a holiday. What are the best places to go to say for a week? Off the top of my head I can think of Constanta, Bucharest and Transylvania (for Dracula 's castle). Any other suggestions would be welcome. What if I wanted to monger whilst there?

2. Option 2 is to take a Romanian regular (if she agrees!) to a holiday with me to either Romania or another country (eg Turkish Riviera) for a few days.

Which option is better?

[QUOTE=BrownFish1234;2324787]This is my first post here.

My first trip to Frankfurt is coming up on August 14 . I'll be there for 3 days. I've done all of my hobbying in Tijuana and USA.

I've been doing research for the past couple of months about the German FKK clubs.

I would appreciate it very much if some of you can provide me with some info about mainhattan, palace, sharks, Oase.

1. Size of the clubs and the general number of ladies during the time of the day, weekday and weekend.

2. $$ if I'm looking for GFE. DFK DATY MSOG mpcfs bbjcim.

3 . Average age and ethnicity of the ladies.

4 . Ways to get to the club other than taxi from the Frankfurt hbf train station.

Any other info about what to do and what not to do is very much appreciated.

If time permits I might venture into the RLD as well. Will appreciate some input on this.

After Frankfurt I have a two day trip to Paris.[/QUOTE]You posted in the right thread of this forum, so I assume you already read at least some posts throughout ISG? If yes, all you need to do is some more reading (you have couple of months to read enough and prep anyway) and you will have all questions answered.

Knowing what I know now, if I were you, for my first ever FKK trip of only 3 days, I would go 1 day Oase, 1 day Sharks and repeat the club I liked better on the 3rd day. I prefer girls fully nude, so l would avoid Sharks on Tuesdays and Oase on Thursdays.

Welcome to ISG, good luck and enjoy. Very likely your only problem after your first FKK trip will be that you will not enjoy any of the sex traps in USA.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2325079]Welcome to ISG, good luck and enjoy. Very likely your only problem after your first FKK trip will be that you will not enjoy any of the sex traps in USA.[/QUOTE]I agree Gino he will be forever yearning for FKK clubs back in the states but this guy doesn't come from too shitty an area for mongering in the states ( or at least travels to such) rather a very affordable one and has quite a good resume here and knows Tijuana quite well; looks like adding in the FKKs will give him a good balance if he joins us for good.

I welcome him aboard too and hope some of you mainstream guys can assist him in his questions. Sometimes the ISG despite all the info we all provide can be a tad overwhelming at first but you are right he has plenty of time. Starting early in one's hunt is always a good move.

You know, if you maybe rent a Passat or a car that is not a two person vehicle perhaps we can take him to see Amira and Diana with us :D

I cross with the guy maybe I will take care of the Mainhatten part if he goes there and go with him. And perhaps Lanthano if he comes out of hiding can complete his tour as I think he posted he does not wish to visit the red toweled Gypsies alone. And speaking of Lanthano I think all newbies to Germany would greatly benefit by reading his reviews many in the ROD section' well written, easy to follow and all provide a good walk thru of each place.

Brownfish.

For public transport bahn.de is invaluable. Go to the English version. It will tell you everything (times, prices, maps, and so on) door to door.

Ethnicity. Primarily Romanian or Romanian Roma. Aged between 18 to 30. English is the lingua franca ;) in the bigger clubs

As for service and price that is up to you. I never pay more than 50 per 30 minutes and expect dfk and daty. However this level of price/service can be a bit elusive in Palace, Sharks, Mainhatten, and Oase. In some other clubs it is fairly easy to find, plus additional services. My mantra is : the individual girl needs my money more than I need her

Although a newbie to FKK, make sure you don't appear so. Some girls specialise in catching new guys who don't know the ropes. But if you take your time and relax you will do fine: as long as you have euros :D

Good luck.

[QUOTE=Trombone;2324446]I have a business trip coming up to the Bielefeld area- which seems in the middle of nowhere in club's geography. Most clubs that I am familiar with around Dusseldorf / Cologne area are at least 2 hours away; same to Hamburg. Any info suggestions in this are appreciated.[/QUOTE]There is this Eros Center. The nice thing about such places is that you can just walk through and pick a girl without the overhead of an FKK. Great for a quickie or even a not-so-quickie. But quality varies from one to the next, and I'm not sure how this one is rated. The price I've seen quoted is 50 e for 15 minutes, but keep in mind there is no entry fee.

[URL]https://www.eros-bielefeld.com/galerie[/URL]

[URL]http://jako.dapnet.de/lgp-bielefeld.htm[/URL]

[URL]https://www.google.com/maps/@52.0330371,8.5530325,3a,75y,279.19h,92.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUrABazsxsgXO13xgWM2vyg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en[/URL]

[QUOTE=Gino02;2325079]I prefer girls fully nude, so l would avoid Sharks on Tuesdays and Oase on Thursdays.[/QUOTE]Unless he is like me and prefers a bit of sexy lingerie. As all the nudity can get a bit boring. Lingerie is a bit of exotic spice on a dish of meat.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2325243]There is this Eros Center. The nice thing about such places is that you can just walk through and pick a girl without the overhead of an FKK. Great for a quickie or even a not-so-quickie. But quality varies from one to the next, and I'm not sure how this one is rated. The price I've seen quoted is 50 e for 15 minutes, but keep in mind there is no entry fee.

[URL]https://www.eros-bielefeld.com/galerie[/URL]

[URL]http://jako.dapnet.de/lgp-bielefeld.htm[/URL]

[URL]https://www.google.com/maps/@52.0330371,8.5530325,3a,75y,279.19h,92.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUrABazsxsgXO13xgWM2vyg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en[/URL].[/QUOTE]I totally agree. Just walk in and hit and walk out and eat a nice meal after.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2325289]Unless he is like me and prefers a bit of sexy lingerie. As all the nudity can get a bit boring. Lingerie is a bit of exotic spice on a dish of meat.[/QUOTE]Many girls are not anymore full naked at Oase or Sharks, many bra at Oase, even for Katrin. Bu who has beautiful natural tits.

[QUOTE=Sybarite2006;2325078]1. Since I have a thing for Romanian girls (as many of us FKK old timers do!) I'm thinking of going to Romania for a holiday. What are the best places to go to say for a week? Off the top of my head I can think of Constanta, Bucharest and Transylvania (for Dracula 's castle). Any other suggestions would be welcome. What if I wanted to monger whilst there?

2. Option 2 is to take a Romanian regular (if she agrees!) to a holiday with me to either Romania or another country (eg Turkish Riviera) for a few days.

Which option is better?[/QUOTE]I prefer to avoid Romanian invitations for shopping, for visiting. Even some of them react, not only about money business, becoming so jealous or angry or wet eyes, but this is business money and I m not interested to have a prostitute who is fucked by everybody for girlfriend. FKK pleasures are better to stay in FKK land. But I was often said Romania is a beautiful country: mountains around Brasov, around Danube to back sea.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2325435]I prefer to avoid Romanian invitations for shopping, for visiting. Even some of them react, not only about money business, becoming so jealous or angry or wet eyes, but this is business money and I m not interested to have a prostitute who is fucked by everybody for girlfriend. FKK pleasures are better to stay in FKK land. But I was often said Romania is a beautiful country: mountains around Brasov, around Danube to back sea.[/QUOTE]Danube finishing in black sea.

[QUOTE=Downandup;2324733]"Das gibt's doch gar nicht"!

Seriously, I doubt that you will find any good clubs around this area or else we would hear about them. The best I can offer is a few places you could reach if you had a car. FKK Villa in Hanover, Golden Night in Herford, Love Toxic in Enger, Sauna Club Yasmin in Melle, Zeus FKK Club in Osnabruk and finally Wellness Sauna Club in Bad Lippspringe. I know absolutely nothing about them but if the Autobahn exit to Bielefeld is still closed then maybe you could take a chance.[/QUOTE]Thank you very much for the suggestions, Downandup; I will be renting a car. Website of some of these look promising!

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2325243]There is this Eros Center. The nice thing about such places is that you can just walk through and pick a girl without the overhead of an FKK. Great for a quickie or even a not-so-quickie. But quality varies from one to the next, and I'm not sure how this one is rated. The price I've seen quoted is 50 e for 15 minutes, but keep in mind there is no entry fee. [/QUOTE]Thank you, Neurosynth. Very good information and links.

[QUOTE=Sybarite2006;2325078]1. Since I have a thing for Romanian girls (as many of us FKK old timers do!) I'm thinking of going to Romania for a holiday. What are the best places to go to say for a week? Off the top of my head I can think of Constanta, Bucharest and Transylvania (for Dracula 's castle). Any other suggestions would be welcome. What if I wanted to monger whilst there?

2. Option 2 is to take a Romanian regular (if she agrees!) to a holiday with me to either Romania or another country (eg Turkish Riviera) for a few days.

Which option is better?[/QUOTE]1. I thought about visiting Romania too since I love Romanian women at FKKs. However, there are more negative reports than positive reports in ISG's Romania section. Therefore, I am hesitated to take the chance since I don't have a lot of vacation time to waste. I play safe and keep going back to FKKs, especially Globe, Club Swiss, and Westside in CH since I am guaranteed to have good services at these clubs.

2. I inquired one Globe regular about her escort rate per day (24 hours) if I were to visit her in Romania when she's not on tour. She wanted 2,500 CHF a day. She's super hot though.

I have been drinking coffee for over 30 years every day like many people do. And I know it is not big deal substance by media and by our experience including mine. But anyways, I decided to stop drinking coffee cold turkey like a month ago.

Oddly, ever since I stopped drinking coffee my erection got much more stronger and I am back to my 20's able to cum over 5 times per day without any problem. And sperm volume increased dramatically. I never knew caffeine / coffee was doing me some kind of negative thing to my body.

[QUOTE=DiverOyster;2325815]1. I thought about visiting Romania too since I love Romanian women at FKKs. However, there are more negative reports than positive reports in ISG's Romania section. Therefore, I am hesitated to take the chance since I don't have a lot of vacation time to waste. I play safe and keep going back to FKKs, especially Globe, Club Swiss, and Westside in CH since I am guaranteed to have good services at these clubs.

2. I inquired one Globe regular about her escort rate per day (24 hours) if I were to visit her in Romania when she's not on tour. She wanted 2,500 CHF a day. She's super hot though.[/QUOTE]She doesn't like You much to ask you such expensive rate 2500 CHF for a day when she is in poor Romania, about 8 months average salary in deep miserable Romania where they come from, not in expensive Zurich. I think for less expensive I can have a Russian escort out of agency for whole week end. I'm not interested, I prefer other places for my holidays, for real sports, free riding or bicycle climbing, but if I decided to go for visit when they propose, I would never pay and they can decide what we would do. I think You should better keep on enjoying fucking her in public at Globe. FKK are very different from real life.

Frankfurt.

I'm a newbie and I'll visit Frankfurt at 6th June maybe for 3 days.

I've been doing research for the past couple of months about the German FKK clubs but a little bit confused about my choice.

I would appreciate it very much if some of you can provide me with some info about Sharks and Oase.

1. Probably I m considering visit Sharks or Oase on Thursdays. Is it a good day? I'm searching for best line up. How many girls probably will be up?

Are they fully naked or in lingerie?

2. I'm looking for PSE DFK DATY BBJ.

3 . The half an hour session exists or always you have to take the 1 hour program? Is it possible to one of the services that I mention on half an hour program?

4 . Is on June open the pool outdoors always or depending the weather?

5. Is a jacuzzi on both clubs available?

6. Do you think the choice of these clubs worth? Do you propose something else better?

Thanks a lot for your answers and your time.

[QUOTE=DiverOyster;2325815]
I inquired one Globe regular about her escort rate per day (24 hours) if I were to visit her in Romania when she's not on tour. She wanted 2,500 CHF a day. She's super hot though.[/QUOTE]Only 2,500 a day? Where's her ambition? MacKenzie Bezos earned $35 billion from her marriage. That works out as $3,666,092 a day, or, if you can only afford an hour, $155,670. I think there was also a documentary where a woman called Demi Moore was getting a cool million for overnighters.

First, I should preface by saying that I personally have not done this yet. So, take my view FWIW. I would have a tough time explaining why I suddenly have a Romanian Visa stamp in my passport to my spouse, whereas she knows I go to DE a fair amount on business.

But I do know people who have done this.

In my view, if you are going to try it then first choose a girl that you know and like well. Find someone who is reliable. I would only go with someone who has spent sometime with you outside the club, such as your hotel rooms in DE. That gives you a sense of her demeanor outside the club walls.

Many FKK girls are not super reliable. Many of them may catfish or ghost you. If you are going to spend a lot of money and book flights and hotel rooms, then it makes sense to make sure you have a girl (s) lined up. The last thing you want to do is travel all the way to Romania and having to masturbate to the same porn you could have watched in your own bed (unless your primary reason for going there is the sightseeing part itself and not the mongering hobby).

As other people said below, the negotiation should include all aspects such as how many days she will stay with you, how much you will pay her and how often you expect to have sex, would you be responsible for any of her other expenses and incidentals and so on.

It is not a good idea in my opinion to first go there and look for girls that are new to you. Romania is not known as an attractive mongering destination. Lacking local knowledge, it is not easy to find good WGs in a hurry. Your frustration will increase with each passing hour and there is a risk that you will make sub-optimal decisions.

[QUOTE=Sybarite2006;2325078]1. Since I have a thing for Romanian girls (as many of us FKK old timers do!) I'm thinking of going to Romania for a holiday. What are the best places to go to say for a week? Off the top of my head I can think of Constanta, Bucharest and Transylvania (for Dracula 's castle). Any other suggestions would be welcome. What if I wanted to monger whilst there?

2. Option 2 is to take a Romanian regular (if she agrees!) to a holiday with me to either Romania or another country (eg Turkish Riviera) for a few days.

Which option is better?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=DiverOyster;2325815]1. I thought about visiting Romania too since I love Romanian women at FKKs. However, there are more negative reports than positive reports in ISG's Romania section. Therefore, I am hesitated to take the chance since I don't have a lot of vacation time to waste. I play safe and keep going back to FKKs, especially Globe, Club Swiss, and Westside in CH since I am guaranteed to have good services at these clubs.

2. I inquired one Globe regular about her escort rate per day (24 hours) if I were to visit her in Romania when she's not on tour. She wanted 2,500 CHF a day. She's super hot though.[/QUOTE]2500 for 24 hours? That's about the going rate for high end escorts in Switzerland and London and ex pornstars. Which Globe regular was it? (You can PM if you want). Globe is 280/ HR so I guess that's a bargain from their perspective!

[QUOTE=Sybarite2006;2326007]2500 for 24 hours? That's about the going rate for high end escorts in Switzerland and London and ex pornstars. Which Globe regular was it? (You can PM if you want). Globe is 280/ HR so I guess that's a bargain from their perspective![/QUOTE]From German FKKs, if the girl is comfortable with you and even slightly enjoys your company, you can get her for 600-800 e per day, and even cheaper for multiple days. This includes even the most beautiful or most in-demand girls in big FKKs. Visiting Romania with her is even cheaper, about 400-500 e per day, or could even be free if she really likes you (doesn't need to "love" you). I haven't tried anyone from Globe yet, but still I think 2200 e (2500 CHF) per day sounds way too high. For all day or all week, these girls charge much less as they know you won't be fucking her 24 times, at the most 8-10 times, plus she will have zero other expenses for club fees, food, travel etc, she may get to visit some nice new places or restaurants or nightclubs with someone she likes (even if very slightly). And she doesn't have to hustle to get any business those days, much easier than a club day as long as she enjoys your company, not like gets headaches from you talking LOL. Key is to have that human connection, more so for longer term appointments or trips together, even in her business of prostitution and your act of buying sex.

Another good reasonably priced alternate all day or all week option is the girls from some of the legitimate Czech operations, eg the famous https://roycedolls.com/models. But they are not as open to (read "used to") being naked in public or having sex in public as the FKK girls, so that's a negative if you want such fantasies come true.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2325243]There is this Eros Center. The nice thing about such places is that you can just walk through and pick a girl without the overhead of an FKK. Great for a quickie or even a not-so-quickie. But quality varies from one to the next, and I'm not sure how this one is rated. The price I've seen quoted is 50 e for 15 minutes, but keep in mind there is no entry fee.[/QUOTE]I've only experienced the Eros Center in Frankfurt, and as you noted, the quality varies. For me the quality was always sub par. But again, the nice thing is you walk in, take a walk through. If you find someone you like, you stay, if not you just keep going.

[QUOTE=Sybarite2006;2326007]2500 for 24 hours? That's about the going rate for high end escorts in Switzerland and London and ex pornstars. Which Globe regular was it? (You can PM if you want). Globe is 280/ HR so I guess that's a bargain from their perspective![/QUOTE]That actually is about 100 per hour, so it is not too bad of price though long hours should given some discount, but who want to spend 24 hours with prostitute, max I can stay with them is let say 2 hours, I do not want to be with them for longer than that since I only seek sex with prostitute and not more.

[QUOTE=Sabarone;2325959]Frankfurt.

I'm a newbie and I'll visit Frankfurt at 6th June maybe for 3 days.

I've been doing research for the past couple of months about the German FKK clubs but a little bit confused about my choice.

I would appreciate it very much if some of you can provide me with some info about Sharks and Oase.

1. Probably I m considering visit Sharks or Oase on Thursdays. Is it a good day? I'm searching for best line up. How many girls probably will be up?

Are they fully naked or in lingerie?

2. I'm looking for PSE DFK DATY BBJ.

3 . The half an hour session exists or always you have to take the 1 hour program? Is it possible to one of the services that I mention on half an hour program?

4 . Is on June open the pool outdoors always or depending the weather?

5. Is a jacuzzi on both clubs available?

6. Do you think the choice of these clubs worth? Do you propose something else better?

Thanks a lot for your answers and your time.[/QUOTE]Prepare to be overwhelmed.

1. Thursday should be ok. These clubs are huge and there are plenty of women throughout the week. Some only work the weekends. Most girls are fully naked. Some wear a hint of lingerie. If they're covered up, beware.

2. Yeah, sure. Just negotiate up front. Don't go to the room without a full agreement re: services and cost. Ask for anything you think you might want just in case. I usually ask for DATY and only occasionally partake.

3. I find that it's easy to get a 30 min session at Oase. At Sharks I have always chosen a 60 min session because we had great chemistry and I really liked the girl from the start. I've started to prefer 60 min sessions partially because I've gotten better at picking girls. Also, you sometimes get burned on a 30 min session. You probably want to do 30 min for your first session of the trip, and maybe even all of them, but some girls might refuse and other girls might give a poor performance or severely limit what you can do--possibly even limiting you to 1-2 positions. There is no recourse.

4. The pools at both clubs are already open. The weather in Frankfurt has been beautiful.

5. Yes, there are three on the upper floor of Sharks. I used one tonight. Oase has one you simply can't miss.

6. You'll be fine. These are both good clubs. Good luck!

[QUOTE=HankMoody69;2326142]Prepare to be overwhelmed.

1. Thursday should be ok.[/QUOTE]Thursday is dessous day at Oase, most girls will be wearing some lingerie. If you want to see most girls fully FKK naked on a Thursday, Sharks would be a better choice and an "wow! Experience" for a newbie.

I just left Oase for a Sunday afternoon. Lineup was awful. Like a bad RLD quality. Nothing above a 6. Very disappointing. Worst lineup I have seen in my 2 years FKKing.

Palace Saturday night was OK for me. 4 possibilities, with 1 stunner.

Sharks Friday night was also disappointing. 0 stunners for my eyes.

I love the FKK format with taking your pick from a room full of girls, but I am starting to think it is not worth the time and cost of traveling from the US. Unfortunately it sounds like the new law ruined FKKs and I missed the golden years.

Just avoid all the tourists shitty clubs and you should be fine.

[QUOTE=Colforbin;2326890]I just left Oase for a Sunday afternoon. Lineup was awful. Like a bad RLD quality. Nothing above a 6. Very disappointing. Worst lineup I have seen in my 2 years FKKing.

Palace Saturday night was OK for me. 4 possibilities, with 1 stunner.

Sharks Friday night was also disappointing. 0 stunners for my eyes.

I love the FKK format with taking your pick from a room full of girls, but I am starting to think it is not worth the time and cost of traveling from the US. Unfortunately it sounds like the new law ruined FKKs and I missed the golden years.[/QUOTE]Did you Ike these clubs before the law change in 2017?

It is interesting that you like the visuals of girls in Palace but not Oase and Sharks. That is not the opinion of a majority I would think. However, for any monger, the non opinion that counts is what his own brain and dick tells him.

By and large, the law led to prices going up for certain services as girls feel they can offer just covered blow jobs and charge extra for a BBBJ. It has not led to a reduction of the number of girls nor their looks in my view, at least in the mega clubs.

Unfortunately, I didn't start visiting Frankfurt until January 2018, so I don't know what is what like before the law change, but from reading the forums it sounds like the quality has gone downhill. And I am referring to the registration law, not the condom law. It has to be 95%+ Romanian girls in these clubs. I'd like to see a wider variety.

I'm moving on to Switzerland now. Sounds like Globe has more of what I am looking for.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2326974]Did you Ike these clubs before the law change in 2017?

It is interesting that you like the visuals of girls in Palace but not Oase and Sharks. That is not the opinion of a majority I would think. However, for any monger, the non opinion that counts is what his own brain and dick tells him.

By and large, the law led to prices going up for certain services as girls feel they can offer just covered blow jobs and charge extra for a BBBJ. It has not led to a reduction of the number of girls nor their looks in my view, at least in the mega clubs.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Colforbin;2326890]I just left Oase for a Sunday afternoon. Lineup was awful. Like a bad RLD quality. Nothing above a 6. Very disappointing. Worst lineup I have seen in my 2 years FKKing.

Palace Saturday night was OK for me. 4 possibilities, with 1 stunner.

Sharks Friday night was also disappointing. 0 stunners for my eyes.

I love the FKK format with taking your pick from a room full of girls, but I am starting to think it is not worth the time and cost of traveling from the US. Unfortunately it sounds like the new law ruined FKKs and I missed the golden years.[/QUOTE]If you want to see few beauties who are in clubs, better to go on best casting days. Sunday at Oase is for sure not the best casting day, even on Friday 24 May, 3 of my 4 girls were not working, 1 is at home since Easter, 1 also at home, 1 should work but not, but I repeated with my last beauty and I wish she will understand. Also Michele, Estefania, Adela, Isabela, black Sara, a black model type, blond Stefani, Mady, Vera, Roxana, Alice silicon, Alina / Marina, blond Miki, Selena, Erika, also 1 with a bit reddish long hair who doesn't want to give her name, were working on this Friday. I was disappointed because I returned for my hot woman type who told me she would work, but didn t and next time we will have to talk again, I also don t go with many Oase girls because they are not interesting behavior for me, but at the moment, I don t see higher level for looks in Germany. Except Melissa and black Sara, I confirm for disappointing casting at Sharks on Friday 17 May, even Evita, Brenda, Rebeka, Jellis, ex claimed Greek Elektra, Leoni. De, Ester now silicon, Karin, Inca, Jenifer, Paloma, Debora, Selina, Selena, Sade, Edina, were working. Yes at Palace can sometimes find a beauty, but have to be lucky. Better to choose best days to visit to enjoy beauties.

For higher level for looks, Globe Zurich for 130€/30 mn. Best days from Thursday to Saturday. Sometimes can find Globe level for look and in bed in Germany, sometimes even for 100 for 1 hour, I even had one for only 50 € for 30 very full minutes for our discovery and I returned to World on next Saturday, but for 1 hour.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2326101]...Visiting Romania with her is even cheaper, about 400-500 e per day, or could even be free if she really likes you (doesn't need to "love" you)...[/QUOTE]Why it is better deal when you visiting Romania with the girl? While inside Romanian she will want to visiting her family and not the customer I think. Does she expecting you to pay her plane ticket from Frankfurt? And why not take the girl to other Schengen vacation area instead for 400-500 daily?

Also there is concern of safety when customer is alone in Romania outside of FKK. The girl, no matter how nice she was in saunanclub, can make you easy target for robbing in Romania by the Romanian boyfriend, pimp, or mafia gangs.

In my limited experience it is not necessary to pay extra for services which always used to be the basic standard. To get this service for the price of 50 euros per 30 minutes does not require any compromise on optics.

Of course, as perhaps BB69 was suggesting, I don't bother going to Sharks or Oase as I am not in a position to establish myself as a weekly regular.

[QUOTE=Colforbin;2327046]Unfortunately, I didn't start visiting Frankfurt until January 2018, so I don't know what is what like before the law change, but from reading the forums it sounds like the quality has gone downhill. And I am referring to the registration law, not the condom law. It has to be 95%+ Romanian girls in these clubs. I'd like to see a wider variety.

I'm moving on to Switzerland now. Sounds like Globe has more of what I am looking for.[/QUOTE]The Forum is good for getting technical info or perhaps sightings of specific girls. Just remember that many posts are fueled by emotion and can be irrational. Mountains are often made out of a mole hill because you are getting a lot of very subjective and disjunct reports and experiences. Quality has not dropped as much as many say. As for variety, from my experience, Switzerland and Austria is also very Romanian dominant. If Germany are 90% Romanian, Switzerland is at best 80% Romanian.

[QUOTE=Colforbin;2327046]Unfortunately, I didn't start visiting Frankfurt until January 2018, so I don't know what is what like before the law change, but from reading the forums it sounds like the quality has gone downhill. And I am referring to the registration law, not the condom law. It has to be 95%+ Romanian girls in these clubs. I'd like to see a wider variety.

I'm moving on to Switzerland now. Sounds like Globe has more of what I am looking for.[/QUOTE]To be honest, if you have not visited prior to Jan 2018, there is no way to say that standard have declined in certain clubs in any way. It is all hearsay.

Plus, one or two vocal writing members might influence others to concur with them. Pretty soon, that becomes a common view. The last thing we should do is propagate this myth, as if it is a given fact. We should simply state what we observe and then add our own personal views and not restate what the dominant view is on the platform. Anyway, that's my view.

I am a new writer and have lurked here on and off. From what I recall writers here were saying club standards have been deteriorating even 2 or 3 or 4 years ago or what have you. As far as where the standards declined the most, there is no consensus. Vocal members play up their favorite clubs and denigrate other clubs.

As they say grass is always greener on the other side and sometimes it would appear that grass was always greener in the past.

[QUOTE=Colforbin;2327046]Unfortunately, I didn't start visiting Frankfurt until January 2018, so I don't know what is what like before the law change, but from reading the forums it sounds like the quality has gone downhill. And I am referring to the registration law, not the condom law. It has to be 95%+ Romanian girls in these clubs. I'd like to see a wider variety.[/QUOTE][I]Colonel Forbin I know why you've come here

And I'll help you with your quest to gain the knowledge that you lack[/I]

It's true, the bureaucracy discourages local girls and high-quality girls in general from coming in to FKKs, so the ones that show up are increasingly the products of an assembly line and feel less and less real. They are dependent on their "managers" for accommodation, visas, etc.

[QUOTE=Colforbin;2327046]
I'm moving on to Switzerland now. Sounds like Globe has more of what I am looking for.[/QUOTE]Globe is better, but even there the stars are starting to age and are in short supply, while the system is flooded with factory types.

Just my 2 dirhams. [NOPARSE]👳[/NOPARSE].

[QUOTE=Jolokia;2327188]Why it is better deal when you visiting Romania with the girl? While inside Romanian she will want to visiting her family and not the customer I think. Does she expecting you to pay her plane ticket from Frankfurt? And why not take the girl to other Schengen vacation area instead for 400-500 daily?

Also there is concern of safety when customer is alone in Romania outside of FKK. The girl, no matter how nice she was in saunanclub, can make you easy target for robbing in Romania by the Romanian boyfriend, pimp, or mafia gangs.[/QUOTE]Sounds like you never had the luck of knowing a WG in a personal level. Try to have that human connection, then comment on the rates, safety etc? You might have a different opinion when an WG invites you to her home country, even buys your flight tickets and arranges your accommodation.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2327495]To be honest, if you have not visited prior to Jan 2018, there is no way to say that standard have declined in certain clubs in any way. It is all hearsay.

Plus, one or two vocal writing members might influence others to concur with them. Pretty soon, that becomes a common view. The last thing we should do is propagate this myth, as if it is a given fact. We should simply state what we observe and then add our own personal views and not restate what the dominant view is on the platform. Anyway, that's my view.

I am a new writer and have lurked here on and off. From what I recall writers here were saying club standards have been deteriorating even 2 or 3 or 4 years ago or what have you. As far as where the standards declined the most, there is no consensus. Vocal members play up their favorite clubs and denigrate other clubs.

As they say grass is always greener on the other side and sometimes it would appear that grass was always greener in the past.[/QUOTE]If it helps some of the newer mongers to feel good by thinking the FKK lineups were same quality 3-4 years back as it is now on average, let's go with that. It's like kids in today's high schools and colleges see mostly obese girls (or guys) and think that's the definition of beauty. No point bursting that bubble with the reference of history.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2327604]If it helps some of the newer mongers to feel good by thinking the FKK lineups were same quality 3-4 years back as it is now on average, let's go with that. It's like kids in today's high schools and colleges see mostly obese girls (or guys) and think that's the definition of beauty. No point bursting that bubble with the reference of history.[/QUOTE]I'm not a newer monger and I agree with Pesismist on this one, a few vocal members portray a skewed image of the club scene. Things go up and down from month to month and year to year but I do not notice a huge drop off. I do recognize that I look back fondly on some former stunners and even yearn for them.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2327495]To be honest, if you have not visited prior to Jan 2018, there is no way to say that standard have declined in certain clubs in any way. It is all hearsay.

Plus, one or two vocal writing members might influence others to concur with them. Pretty soon, that becomes a common view. The last thing we should do is propagate this myth, as if it is a given fact. We should simply state what we observe and then add our own personal views and not restate what the dominant view is on the platform. Anyway, that's my view.

I am a new writer and have lurked here on and off. From what I recall writers here were saying club standards have been deteriorating even 2 or 3 or 4 years ago or what have you. As far as where the standards declined the most, there is no consensus. Vocal members play up their favorite clubs and denigrate other clubs.

As they say grass is always greener on the other side and sometimes it would appear that grass was always greener in the past.[/QUOTE]I have 15 years of FKK visits behind me, and I don t agree at all with your opinion, several years back the LU were far more diverse many girls from Germany, Hungary, Poland, even some from Italy or France today 95% are from Romania and they try to control the clubs by increasing prices and decreasing the service. I guess that many nice girls are doing escort and left the FKK scene. Also the girls need less to be a prostitutes just because the economical situation of those countries improved a lot. It has nothing to do with nostalgia but for sure for me before it was better.

I agree that the line ups haven't declined (I've been mongering since 2007 in Germany FKK clubs) but what has tended to happen is that non Romanians have declined in numbers compared to before. I don't know why. What has definitely happened since July 2017 and the new law is many girls have started to charge extra for BBBJ. Other than that it's a case I think of memory being golden and rose tinted. Also when a man visits an FKK for the first time ever or even for the first few times the sheer spectacle of naked women in their 20's, all available, overwhelms the senses. It's how every one says that 'things were better in my days' or 'in the Olsen daya'! I myself have written wonderful descriptions of beauties at Palace from my early trips mongering and I have fond memories of Saskia, Martha, Natascha, Indira etc. Sure they were beautiful and I had great sex with all of them but if I saw them now for the first time with my many years of experience would I be as blown away as I was back then? Would I say Saskia is better than Megan? Was Indira hotter than Carmen? Was famous Marie of Oase as beautiful as some of the Globe girls or Marthaat Harmony? Who knows? The mind and memory are wonderful things but also unreliable. I was in a bookshop today and saw a photography book which had a cover photo of Giselle Bundchen. She's probably the most famous supermodel in the world in the last 20 years (she was naked on the cover showing her ass back) and sure she is a 10 but if she was just one of 50 naked girls at a Globe or Sharks or Oase would she stand out that much? I hope you understand my point. I've been with over 200 girls now and honestly now no matter how hot a girl seems I know when she is baked it won't be much different to the other 200+ I've seen. Having said that I've an addict and I know that so I get some girls whom I sometimes fall for who blow my mind for a while (currently Megan for example) but that's only until the next hottest one comes along. I guess I'm saying enjoy the present while you can and feel privileged to live experiences most men can only dream about and don't dream about the mythical past so much!

[QUOTE=Gino02;2327604]If it helps some of the newer mongers to feel good by thinking the FKK lineups were same quality 3-4 years back as it is now on average, let's go with that. It's like kids in today's high schools and colleges see mostly obese girls (or guys) and think that's the definition of beauty. No point bursting that bubble with the reference of history.[/QUOTE]I told him that one should be able to judge a lineup without reference to a mythical LU from the past. What does it matter that another monger feels girls were prettier and more plentiful in the past? He can't time travel and fuck them -- the only ones available are the ones in the club on the day you attend.

With time, some things get exaggerated and defects glossed over. A 70 year old guy might say girls from his youth and middle age were pretty and better.

Whose opinion is valid and authoritative? Not mine for sure, far from it. If you feel your voice is authoritative on this subject and he agrees with you, he will certainly follow that advice.

All of us are writing on German FKK forums now and presumably attending German FKKs. So, we are still able to find good sessions with attractive girls, no? If we can, others can. Takes some diligence but it can be done. It has always taken some diligence to find good sessions- this is true for all good stuff in life.

Well obesity is easy to monitor. Beauty is not. Especially when Romanians are not obese. What has gone up on the other hand is upselling. And the industry in Germany is in danger of ending up the same way it is in certain east European, south american, African or south east Asian countries, where integrity is low, and scams are high.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2327548] the bureaucracy discourages local girls and high-quality girls in general from coming in to FKKs, so the ones that show up are increasingly the products of an assembly line and feel less and less real. [/QUOTE]I agree with your above statement although in my view you are getting increasingly more eccentric and radicalized since we both started to post on certain threads about the same time and we both are locals.

From my experience as a local (so is Polyamorist), the lineup in German sex industry is getting stiller and lower in quality in the past 2 years. Due to the registration required by the new law, the turnover of WGs is much slower and the quality of new WGs is lower than 2 years ago because many girls wanted to try out as WGs, but they didn't want to go through the registration process. The ones who did go through the registration were the ones who had less concern about the registration impact on their future life, so they tended to be lower educated and with lower quality in general. I think that, more importantly in a practical terms, the lineup is getting stiller and static and there are much less new girls who have been getting into this business even for a brief time because of the registration. This phenomenon is more obvious in normal brothels where I regularly go than FKK clubs because vast majority of WGs in brothels are non-Romanians.

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2324233]This somehow didn't impact me. The sim stays active as long as it's reloaded every 90 days. So for me I have no costs for the sim between visits. [/QUOTE]The new law only applies to the new sim card activated after July xx, 2018.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2327883]The ones who did go through the registration were the ones who had less concern about the registration impact on their future life, so they tended to be lower educated and with lower quality in general.[/QUOTE]Can anyone tell me how registration impacts their future? Does their status as working girls get shared w / other countries? I know of one that I would like her to visit me but I'm afraid if her status is available it might lead to in auto denial of visa. Thanks.

As much as we shouldn't live in the past and rather enjoy what's available currently, we shouldn't forget or ignore the history. Same goes for the FKK lineups (beauty, service, cost, quantity, quality, ethnic mix, background, personality etc etc) and it's history. Best is to feel it how you feel, no point arguing about it, same as no point arguing with today's obese kids about obesity that I mentioned earlier.

A wise man once said. To each his own.

I think you are absolutely correct that the turnover has come to a crawl. I also agree that quality is in general lower than 2-3 years ago. I just feel that it is not as terrible as it is made out to be. I don't visit normal brothels but in the Sauna club scene, I'd say the drop off is around a half point lower.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2327883]From my experience as a local (so is Polyamorist), the lineup in German sex industry is getting stiller and lower in quality in the past 2 years. Due to the registration required by the new law, the turnover of WGs is much slower and the quality of new WGs is lower than 2 years ago because many girls wanted to try out as WGs, but they didn't want to go through the registration process. The ones who did go through the registration were the ones who had less concern about the registration impact on their future life, so they tended to be lower educated and with lower quality in general. I think that, more importantly in a practical terms, the lineup is getting stiller and there are much less new girls who have been getting into this business even for a brief time because of the registration. The phenomenon is more obvious in normal brothels where I regularly go than FKK clubs because vast majority of WGs in brothels are non-Romanians.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Pistons;2327821]Well obesity is easy to monitor. Beauty is not. Especially when Romanians are not obese. What has gone up on the other hand is upselling. And the industry in Germany is in danger of ending up the same way it is in certain east European, south american, African or south east Asian countries, where integrity is low, and scams are high.[/QUOTE]Are there clubs in any of those regions where you can pay one uniform price such as 50 E and guaranteed at least a fuck and suck, condom or not, in a relatively clean room and in a safe environment? Let alone all the other amenities that you find in a FKK club?

I feel that FKKs are still a great deal despite some mild deterioration in some aspects of service in some of the clubs.

[QUOTE=Palcon;2327887]Can anyone tell me how registration impacts their future? Does their status as working girls get shared w / other countries? I know of one that I would like her to visit me but I'm afraid if her status is available it might lead to in auto denial of visa. Thanks.[/QUOTE]The very act of registering officially as a prostitute is enough to dissuade some ladies from participating in the business. It is no longer possible so much to casually participate as a hobbyheuren or part time hooker.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2327883] the quality of new WGs is lower than 2 years ago because many girls wanted to try out as WGs, but they didn't want to go through the registration process. The ones who did go through the registration were the ones who had less concern about the registration impact on their future life, so they tended to be lower educated and with lower quality in general. I think that, more importantly in a practical terms, the lineup is getting stiller and static and there are much less new girls who have been getting into this business even for a brief time because of the registration. This phenomenon is more obvious in normal brothels where I regularly go than FKK clubs because vast majority of WGs in brothels are non-Romanians.
[/QUOTE]Very well analyzed, similar to what I was concerned about since 2015.

I tend to miss German girls who are legal age enough to work in FKK trying out working girl as summer job or short period job to get fast cash. Once upon a time in FKK, there were some German teens who are basically real hottest girl in college type with no tattoo just pure young beauty girls just auditioned for model casting type. Each visit I used to find few new of these girls and now I miss these type of girls a lot because it is much rarer than before by far.

From 2009 to 2015, I was based in Artemis, but since 2015, I have been basing my self in Hessen and NRW due to younger line up with better service. But this end of summer season, I am returning to Artemis after 4 years of absence, so I hope they improved line up during this 4 years and I hope I will find rare young beauty cast I was talking about earlier in this post, which I did find back in the day mostly in low summer season. Most of top optical levels girls I had in Artemis for me was oddly mostly in summer low season is my experience.

On the other hand, I am also facing risk that Artemis did not change much with line up in this past 4 years and I end up seeing mostly just old same line up girls just 4 years later with more weight on, more plastic surgeries and more tattoos and more hate on male clients powered with extreme upsell LOL.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2327888] ...Best is to feel it how you feel, no point arguing about it, same as no point arguing with today's obese kids about obesity that I mentioned earlier.

[/QUOTE]I have to disagree with you on this one. If the FKK lineup is getting stiller and static and fewer new girls with lower quality are getting into FKK business, maybe not you and other die-hard FKK fans, but some readers here with FKK experience may consider to monger in other countries instead of FKK clubs. It is about information. I actually wrote my previous post out of sadness and frustration which I share with Polyamorist and which forced me to start to look into other countries for mongering now.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2328095]I have to disagree with you on this one. If the FKK lineup is getting stiller and static and fewer new girls with lower quality are getting into FKK business, maybe not you and other die-hard FKK fans, but some readers here with FKK experience may consider to monger in other countries instead of FKK clubs. It is about information. I actually wrote my previous post out of sadness and frustration which I share with Polyamorist and which forced me to start to look into other countries for mongering now.[/QUOTE]It's easy to understand why. Prices are the same as ten years ago. You get what you pay for.

[QUOTE=Frozty;2328116]It's easy to understand why. Prices are the same as ten years ago. You get what you pay for.[/QUOTE]Well I consider these same prices for past ten years as minimum service charge in most of the cases LOL.

Sometimes I get lucky and get maximum service with these minimum service charge, which is rather more often before than recent few years.

I spent 2 days at Sharks and enjoyed a blast from the past weekend while also trying out Alexandria and her new hair do. I only make 6-7 Sharks visits a year these days, opting to spend more time in NRW but had a nice time going to rooms with former greats and old time regulars.

I went with Evita for the first time in nearly 2 years and can say that she is still a classy provider. We didn't recapture old magic but enjoyed a top notch one hour room.

Mila was just back from holiday so I went with her on day 2. She's still a top notch provider that is fun in the room. All services provided, with no upsell during the half hour session. I think I benefit from being known to her and her crew as I know she usually wants the 1 hour room.

The cherry on top of my visit was a surprise visit from Yvette who has been at Palace for some time. She popped in for one night so I immediately took her. Perhaps it was that I hadn't gone with her in a while but she seemed to somehow gotten even better in the 2 years since I've sessioned with her. Her small frame, thin body, and enthusiasm in the room made for a top 3 session in 2019. I don't remember her BJ being an 11 out of 10 but this time, it was easily the best BJ I've had this year. I still remember the new girl 4 years ago that barely spoke any English so was ecstatic to spend quality time with a now veteran provider who has one of the best party attitudes and skill sets out there. Repeating with her might be cause for me to make a Palace visit soon.

I finally repeated with Betty after over a year hiatus and can say that she is still a solid provider. I can't say that she is skillful in anyway but she does have unbelievable stamina in the room. I do miss the slim Betty of the past but she carries the weight reasonably well. She's continued to get bigger but a bit of that is solid muscle in her hips and not just all fat.

Estra is becoming a regular optic fuck for me as I absolutely love her body. She provides decent service in the one hour room, allowing for FIV, DATY, DFK, and BBBJ. She's not particularly skillful either but girls with great tits and absolutely no body fat will always a get regular rooms from me as long as they show some sort of enjoyment in the room. I end up having to do all the work but it's okay as I said she's a borderline optic fuck.

The lone new to me girl I tried was Alexandra. A friend said that her curly hairstyle is new. Perhaps that is why I didn't recognize her. She has a seductive aura and a tight body with fist size tits. She does not have a classic beautiful face but rather a sultry, seductive look. In the room, she was absolutely amazing. The BBBJ was enthusiastic, wet, and deep. The kissing was the same. And fucking, well the fucking was carnal. One of the toughest positions for a girl is from behind while lying down as it allows for full penetration and the girl is subject to every inch of the guy with him being in full control. Alexandra was able to tolerate that position for an extended amount of time, probably 10-15 minutes straight in that one position alone without a reprieve and me progressively pumping faster and faster until climax.

All in all a nice weekend at Sharks, pulling me away from NRW and Austria for a brief period.

[QUOTE=Frozty;2328116]It's easy to understand why. Prices are the same as ten years ago. You get what you pay for.[/QUOTE]I guess I never thought about it. But My first FKK 10 ish years ago was 50/ half + 50 CIM. And that hasn't really changed that much in ten years. Prices of everything have been going up. But not FKK? Got to admit that doesn't seem right in the abstract. If This was manufacturing and prices were fixed, the solution of the manufacturer is to just use cheaper parts. And then make money on the options. Same thing here I guess.

Those who are trying to keep the price the same as 2009 are the same ones complaining that the product quality has gone down. Well guess what. That is the way the world works.

Well, some people like to think "tourists are to blame" and if border walls were erected, the world would still be sunny and bright and 50 E would fetch the highest quality sex, all included.

Of course, these border walls should go up only for men. Otherwise, there would be only 3 old obese German girls per club and all the E EU girls would be plying their trade elsewhere.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2328349]I guess I never thought about it. But My first FKK 10 ish years ago was 50/ half + 50 CIM. And that hasn't really changed that much in ten years. Prices of everything have been going up. But not FKK? Got to admit that doesn't seem right in the abstract. If This was manufacturing and prices were fixed, the solution of the manufacturer is to just use cheaper parts. And then make money on the options. Same thing here I guess.

Those who are trying to keep the price the same as 2009 are the same ones complaining that the product quality has gone down. Well guess what. That is the way the world works.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2328349]I guess I never thought about it. But My first FKK 10 ish years ago was 50/ half + 50 CIM. And that hasn't really changed that much in ten years. Prices of everything have been going up. But not FKK? Got to admit that doesn't seem right in the abstract. If This was manufacturing and prices were fixed, the solution of the manufacturer is to just use cheaper parts. And then make money on the options. Same thing here I guess.

Those who are trying to keep the price the same as 2009 are the same ones complaining that the product quality has gone down. Well guess what. That is the way the world works.[/QUOTE]I agree that cost of living (and prices of almost everything) has increased significantly (30% or more) in USA and most of the Asian countries in last ten years, but do you guys really think that cost of living has increased as much in Germany in the same time frame? I don't think so, and so do the researchers (eg [URL]https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/consumer-price-index-cpi[/URL] and other data analytics sites). Germany CPI in 2019 increased only about 6% from 2010, and if we consider all sorts of wage and prices data, maybe a total 10% increase in FKK prices can be justified for over last 10 years. So the 50 e for 30 minutes service in 2010 now maybe should cost maximum 55 e, not 100 e or any other outrageous number some people want to believe. We are not talking about this FKK service in USA or Asia, but in Germany. FKK owners are not dumb fucks, they would have increased the entry fees if all other prices as well as German incomes have increased like you guys (mostly the flying-in mongers) are suggesting.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2328360]I agree that cost of living (and prices of almost everything) has increased significantly (30% or more) in USA and most of the Asian countries in last ten years, but do you guys really think that cost of living has increased as much in Germany in the same time frame? I don't think so, and so do the researchers (eg [URL]https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/consumer-price-index-cpi[/URL] and other data analytics sites). Germany CPI in 2019 increased only about 6% from 2010, and if we consider all sorts of wage and prices data, maybe a total 10% increase in FKK prices can be justified for over last 10 years. So the 50 e for 30 minutes service in 2010 now maybe should cost maximum 55 e, not 100 e or any other outrageous number some people want to believe. We are not talking about this FKK service in USA or Asia, but in Germany. FKK owners are not dumb fucks, they would have increased the entry fees if all other prices as well as German incomes have increased like you guys (mostly the flying-in mongers) are suggesting.[/QUOTE]Costs of living have skyrocket mainly due to the costs of the rental but this is true in most of the European countries.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2328360]I agree that cost of living (and prices of almost everything) has increased significantly (30% or more) in USA and most of the Asian countries in last ten years, but do you guys really think that cost of living has increased as much in Germany in the same time frame? I don't think so, and so do the researchers (eg [URL]https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/consumer-price-index-cpi[/URL] and other data analytics sites). Germany CPI in 2019 increased only about 6% from 2010, and if we consider all sorts of wage and prices data, maybe a total 10% increase in FKK prices can be justified for over last 10 years. So the 50 e for 30 minutes service in 2010 now maybe should cost maximum 55 e, not 100 e or any other outrageous number some people want to believe. We are not talking about this FKK service in USA or Asia, but in Germany. FKK owners are not dumb fucks, they would have increased the entry fees if all other prices as well as German incomes have increased like you guys (mostly the flying-in mongers) are suggesting.[/QUOTE]CPI is a top down number, aggregated over a basket of goods. Prices for individual goods and services is driven by a bottom up process, by the supply demand of the specific market in question and trade flows. In the US, we had very little inflation or even deflation in some markets notably consumer electronics and many other goods where China is a dominant supplier while education and healthcare prices have been significantly above CPI. I believe what Steve is saying is not that prices should increase for FKK girls, but that a fiat flat pricing imposed on them incents them to not provide high quality services.

Also, the external factors can't be ignored. Due to trade flows, prices for several goods in US remained stable or even declined, courtesy cheap labor of China. A pair of jeans at Walmart costs as much or even less now than they did in 1990. In FKKs, the trade flows are in the opposite direction in that a large influx of well heeled Asian and other tourists (I will get flamed for using the word Asian tourist) who tend to pay more than locals sometimes and that can eventually make some girls provide subpar service to men paying just 50.

One way of also looking at the euro inflation is to consider how much it has increased in value compared to neighbouring currencies. The Romanian currency has fallen compared to the euro. So has my own currency done. So that is already a 20-30% price increase and gain for the Romanian girls who send money back home. When that is said, there are calculators online to measure this, and a fair increase is at about 25% increase in price since 2007. So 12 years ago. Making 50 e into 62.5 euro.

When that is said, some Asian currencies and the dollar has also gone up quite a bit in the past decade. It has really not been Europe's decade lately. Mainly driven by the lack of big overpriced IT companies in Europe I think. And international IT companies not paying their taxes. So the sentiment on this coming from outside Europe is probably different than from within.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2328360]I agree that cost of living (and prices of almost everything) has increased significantly (30% or more) in USA and most of the Asian countries in last ten years, but do you guys really think that cost of living has increased as much in Germany in the same time frame? I don't think so, and so do the researchers (eg [URL]https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/consumer-price-index-cpi[/URL] and other data analytics sites). Germany CPI in 2019 increased only about 6% from 2010, and if we consider all sorts of wage and prices data, maybe a total 10% increase in FKK prices can be justified for over last 10 years. So the 50 e for 30 minutes service in 2010 now maybe should cost maximum 55 e, not 100 e or any other outrageous number some people want to believe. We are not talking about this FKK service in USA or Asia, but in Germany. FKK owners are not dumb fucks, they would have increased the entry fees if all other prices as well as German incomes have increased like you guys (mostly the flying-in mongers) are suggesting.[/QUOTE]Very well put.

I can understand that a gent tip 10 E per half hour for excellent service. But the upselling and overpayment you often read about is not justified.

The prices for FKK services have been the same for nearly 20 years (before the euro was introduced). But indeed, Germany CPI has been VERY low in the same period.

Actually keeping the inflation low is a big point of the Maastricht treaty and one of the goals of the European Central Bank. So please act European.

Gino,

Moving the conversation here, as it does not belong in the Mainhattan thread.

You say you are not trying to be preachy but you also call a marriage or relation sham if one of the two is cheating sexually. What you mean to say is that you do not intend to be preachy and moralizing. It is very much possible to be preachy and moralizing while not intending to be that way.

Millions if not billions of men (and women) have been cheating on their partner now and have done so in the past and will do in the future. I would not call all those relationships and marriages sham. That is the viewpoint of someone who has never been in a relationship. Marriages and relationships are far more complex and with a million calculations related to emotional, spiritual, financial, family, children, security and other factors thrown in. Sex is just one aspect of it. May be this is tough to understand if you have never been in that situation and I related a conversation on Clinton in the other thread, but all I can say is that I am able to compartmentalize my paid sex life very easily from everything else I do. I bet PFI and Zumboit can too and so are many other men.

People say prostitution is the oldest profession and if so the first monger ever must have been a married man.

To your other question-- I have no idea how I would feel the roles were reversed and I caught my spouse cheating. Yes, we all understand that you are trying to point the inherent hypocrisy in our stance; it doesn't take a genius to see your point. And if a cheating married man feels jealous when he catches his spouse cheating, so what?! This is a raw emotion. Emotions, by definition, are not logical. We are not a bunch of Data the Android in Star Trek. I see mongers here being jealous and bitter when their favorite FKK girl is seemingly giving better service to another guy. Mongers here constantly discuss growing attachment with FKK girls, knowing full well that she is fucking at least 10 guys a day. What's the point of scoring a hypocrisy point against a married cheater?

As I said, I'm fully comfortable in my own skin. If there is any guilt, that's between my wife and me and no one else. I'm certainly not apologizing to anybody in the world, and definitely not to other mongers who are doing the same exact thing as I'm doing.

Anyway, my intent was not to stir up a controversy nor seek approval from unmarried mongers but to connect and exchange views with like minded men in a great and open forum such as ISG. What if there are many married men out there that want to share their view points but have stayed silent for fear of being ridiculed, being called hypocrites? Isn't the forum richer for having more views and more diverse and differentiated views? I stand by my earlier statement that being inclusive is always better for a social forum and the first step is to not ridicule a nonconformist voice.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2328738]Gino,

Moving the conversation here, as it does not belong in the Mainhattan thread.

You say you are not trying to be preachy but you also call a marriage or relation sham if one of the two is cheating sexually. What you mean to say is that you do not intend to be preachy and moralizing. It is very much possible to be preachy and moralizing while not intending to be that way.

Millions if not billions of men (and women) have been cheating on their partner now and have done so in the past and will do in the future. I would not call all those relationships and marriages sham. That is the viewpoint of someone who has never been in a relationship. Marriages and relationships are far more complex and with a million calculations related to emotional, spiritual, financial, family, children, security and other factors thrown in. Sex is just one aspect of it. May be this is tough to understand if you have never been in that situation and I related a conversation on Clinton in the other thread, but all I can say is that I am able to compartmentalize my paid sex life very easily from everything else I do. I bet PFI and Zumboit can too and so are many other men.

People say prostitution is the oldest profession and if so the first monger ever must have been a married man.

To your other question-- I have no idea how I would feel the roles were reversed and I caught my spouse cheating. Yes, we all understand that you are trying to point the inherent hypocrisy in our stance; it doesn't take a genius to see your point. And if a cheating married man feels jealous when he catches his spouse cheating, so what?! This is a raw emotion. Emotions, by definition, are not logical. We are not a bunch of Data the Android in Star Trek. I see mongers here being jealous and bitter when their favorite FKK girl is seemingly giving better service to another guy. Mongers here constantly discuss growing attachment with FKK girls, knowing full well that she is fucking at least 10 guys a day. What's the point of scoring a hypocrisy point against a married cheater?

As I said, I'm fully comfortable in my own skin. If there is any guilt, that's between my wife and me and no one else. I'm certainly not apologizing to anybody in the world, and definitely not to other mongers who are doing the same exact thing as I'm doing.

Anyway, my intent was not to stir up a controversy nor seek approval from unmarried mongers but to connect and exchange views with like minded men in a great and open forum such as ISG. What if there are many married men out there that want to share their view points but have stayed silent for fear of being ridiculed, being called hypocrites? Isn't the forum richer for having more views and more diverse and differentiated views? I stand by my earlier statement that being inclusive is always better for a social forum and the first step is to not ridicule a nonconformist voice.[/QUOTE]As a married man with a wife that I love but who I am not in love with I'd make two points:

1. It is quite possible to love your wife and have a pleasant relationship and not be having sex. I love my sister and do not have sex with her. I think we really need two words for these things. One where you love somebody because you share some common bond and perhaps enjoy their company and one where you love someone in a passionate way, partly because you share the bond of sex. These are two different things and I would say RARELY come in the same relationship. I would venture to say the number of men over forty who are passionately in love with their wife is vanishingly small. At least in the US see point 2.

2. Society condemns the man for "cheating" on his wife. I would say in most cases she cheated on him first in the following way: Significantly reduced or no sex or Became fat and unattractive or in many cases both. I went for more than 10 years with NO sex before I went outside the home. And I'm the one who cheated? I don't think so. I have absolutely no guilt finding affection elsewhere.

Honestly it is an epidemic in the United States. Overweight women not holding up their end of the bargain and crying foul. It is appalling.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2328847]
1. It is quite possible to love your wife and have a pleasant relationship and not be having sex. I love my sister and do not have sex with her.
[/QUOTE]
I surmise you are not Japanese.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2328847]I think we really need two words for these things. One where you love somebody because you share some common bond and perhaps enjoy their company and one where you love someone in a passionate way, partly because you share the bond of sex.
[/QUOTE]
The Greeks, such as Plato, had four words:
[NOPARSE]
Éros -- sexual love.
Storgē -- family love.
Philía -- friendship.
Agāpe -- universal love (altruism).
[/NOPARSE]

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2328847]
These are two different things and I would say RARELY come in the same relationship. I would venture to say the number of men over forty who are passionately in love with their wife is vanishingly small.[/QUOTE]I guess this applies worldwide, and it also leads me to suspect that the number of visits to ladies of easy virtue is greatly underestimated / undereported everywhere.

Personally during Ramadan I try to keep it to one a day unless I am feeling really horny. It ends June 4. Hamdulillah!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2328847]As a married man with a wife that I love but who I am not in love with I'd make two points:

1. It is quite possible to love your wife and have a pleasant relationship and not be having sex. I love my sister and do not have sex with her. I think we really need two words for these things. One where you love somebody because you share some common bond and perhaps enjoy their company and one where you love someone in a passionate way, partly because you share the bond of sex. These are two different things and I would say RARELY come in the same relationship. I would venture to say the number of men over forty who are passionately in love with their wife is vanishingly small. At least in the US see point 2.

2. Society condemns the man for "cheating" on his wife. I would say in most cases she cheated on him first in the following way: Significantly reduced or no sex or Became fat and unattractive or in many cases both. I went for more than 10 years with NO sex before I went outside the home. And I'm the one who cheated? I don't think so. I have absolutely no guilt finding affection elsewhere.

Honestly it is an epidemic in the United States. Overweight women not holding up their end of the bargain and crying foul. It is appalling.[/QUOTE]In that case is it not better to rebuild the life with someone else, for me no reason to stay that is the reason I divorced 15 years back. There is no future in P6 except having less money and feeling shortly good after fucking a prostitutes, my best sex and I had many was never with a prostitute, that is why I am extremely selective and the girls must be very pretty if she wants me to spend money, we just buy illusion nothing more.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2328875]I surmise you are not Japanese.


The Greeks, such as Plato, had four words:
[NOPARSE]
ros -- sexual love.
Storgē -- family love.
Phila -- friendship.
Agāpe -- universal love (altruism).
[/NOPARSE]

I guess this applies worldwide, and it also leads me to suspect that the number of visits to ladies of easy virtue is greatly underestimated / undereported everywhere.

Personally during Ramadan I try to keep it to one a day unless I am feeling really horny. It ends June 4. Hamdulillah![/QUOTE]Many thanks to the erudite Polyamorist! I have Storge and Phila with my wife but not Eros!

155 cm and 50 kg with big tits.

5' 1.5" and 110 lbs with big tits.

Would people here consider that considered slim?

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2328414]I will get flamed for using the word Asian tourist) who tend to pay more than locals sometimes and that can eventually make some girls provide subpar service to men paying just 50.[/QUOTE]To be clear without rewriting history. I think the original post was [B]blaming[/B] Cosmina for introducing another provider to the [B]dark side[/B]. The perpetuation of negative association was what you were flamed for.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2328738]Gino,

Moving the conversation here, as it does not belong in the Mainhattan thread.

You say you are not trying to be preachy but you also call a marriage or relation sham if one of the two is cheating sexually. What you mean to say is that you do not intend to be preachy and moralizing. It is very much possible to be preachy and moralizing while not intending to be that way.

Millions if not billions of men (and women) have been cheating on their partner now and have done so in the past and will do in the future. I would not call all those relationships and marriages sham. That is the viewpoint of someone who has never been in a relationship. Marriages and relationships are far more complex and with a million calculations related to emotional, spiritual, financial, family, children, security and other factors thrown in. Sex is just one aspect of it. May be this is tough to understand if you have never been in that situation and I related a conversation on Clinton in the other thread, but all I can say is that I am able to compartmentalize my paid sex life very easily from everything else I do. I bet PFI and Zumboit can too and so are many other men..[/QUOTE]Pessimist,

First, thanks for moving the conversation here and thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, appreciate your insight. I actually like to read your posts, they are nicely written, and mostly with valuable information for a forum like ISG. Rest assured, I will never even think of asking or pushing any forum contributor to stop writing. That said, we should be able to call something what it is, if a topic comes up. You and few other guys brought up the topic of "how wonderful your marriage is due to extramarital mongering", I'm merely trying to understand how you do (or say) that given how marriage and related sexual relationships are defined by the society.

Next, I think you are making few assumptions without knowing my (or someone with my point of view) background. How do you know if I was married to my high school sweetheart for decades then started mongering after her death from cancer, or not? How do you know if I'm one of those folks who goes to FKKs only when he's not in a relationship, or not? Maybe some of us are wired differently and do not like the emotional drain of having multiple lives at the same time, after experiencing many long term relationships?

Now, we can try to spin our activities however it fits us, and try to justify our actions and emotions, but a pig is a pig doesn't matter how much lipstick we put on it. If I cannot tell my loving wife (or girlfriend) that I need sex with other girls but do not want her to have sex with anyone else, it is pretty obvious that we do not trust each other and we do not even want each other to be happy. I don't know if I can really call that a mutually "loving relationship" even if we want to think that "love" is "Storg -- family love" or "Phila -- friendship" as Polyamorist elaborated, for the simple reason that we cannot tell each other what it is. It's still based on lies and hypocrisy, to describe in your own words. Basically a sham marriage. We can probably call it "marital arrangement". Just because billions of people are in such "marital arrangement", doesn't qualify it to be called a "mutually loving, honest and successful marriage". Nothing wrong with that relationship itself, just the wrong use of calling what it is.

In any case, it's our personal lives. We can choose how we want to live it and what we want to call it (or what we want to believe it is). No point arguing about our own personal believes and points of view, more so on a mongering forum like ISG, so why even discussing it anymore? We can agree to disagree on what we want call or believe about it. When you guys brought the topic, I was just trying to understand how you guys do it as I'm debating if I should get into a relationship or not with my so much liking for FKKs. I think I got it now. You simply compartmentalize your actions, feelings and emotions, and tell yourself that you have "loving relationship" and "successful marriage" despite constant cheating on your wives.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2329062]To be clear without rewriting history. I think the original post was [B]blaming[/B] Cosmina for introducing another provider to the [B]dark side[/B]. The perpetuation of negative association was what you were flamed for.[/QUOTE]Not to reopen a can of worms after we already shook hands on a truce in the Sharks thread -- but the Cosmina and Evita pair bonding in search of Asian customers was indeed a real and tangible one and pointing it is not negative.

Secondly, as I said, this association such as it was, was commented upon by many many members dozens of times but for some reason you picked on a new writer, which is always an easy fight to pick I suppose.

The negative stereotype if it exists is in the minds of WGs. I have personally talked many who say they will only do anal with Asian men. Other girls, through the way they seek out Asian customers, make it very clear who their most sought after clients are. Evita and Cosmina being among them in the last 3 years, when they did work.

If a group of women are acting on a view they internally have about a group of men, simply pointing out that fact does not merit flaming in a forum dedicated to open discussions about exactly that sort of thing in FKK clubs.

As for perpetuating, if I kept on harping this subject that is one thing but that was my first time ever and a simple search would show that other members have made that "negative association" more than once and yet I did not see any flames from you in their direction.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2329053]155 cm and 50 kg with big tits.

5' 1.5" and 110 lbs with big tits.

Would people here consider that considered slim?[/QUOTE]Usually for girls, I go by height minus 10. So 1.55 cm should be 45 kg. Or 1.65 cm should be 55 kg. But if she goes to the gym and is top fit, then only 5 below can be more correct. But usually when girls are that fit, their fat percentage also falls, so the tits are small, and not big.

Result: a 1.55 m girl at 50 kg with big natural tits either has some crazy genes to give her extra large tits while still being a fitness babe, or she is a little overweight.

As a guy who has never been married, but would like to have a family someday, and now has been bitten by the FKK life, I'd like to hear how some of you married guys from the US get away with taking random trips to Germany?

I've never been in a relationship where I don't get tired of the sex. In my last 3-year relationship, we might have had sex once in the last year. In the beginning we had Eros. And at the end for me it was just Storage and Phila. As much as I would want to be faithful if I were married, I know I will eventually want to scratch the itch.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2327548][I]Colonel Forbin I know why you've come here

And I'll help you with your quest to gain the knowledge that you lack[/I]

[NOPARSE]👳[/NOPARSE].[/QUOTE]Thank you great and knowledgeable Icculus! I bow in reverence!

[QUOTE=Gino02;2329092]Now, we can try to spin our activities however it fits us, and try to justify our actions and emotions, but a pig is a pig doesn't matter how much lipstick we put on it. If I cannot tell my loving wife (or girlfriend) that I need sex with other girls but do not want her to have sex with anyone else, it is pretty obvious that we do not trust each other and we do not even want each other to be happy. I don't know if I can really call that a mutually "loving relationship" even if we want to think that "love" is "Storgē -- family love" or "Phila -- friendship" as Polyamorist elaborated, for the simple reason that we cannot tell each other what it is. It's still based on lies and hypocrisy, to describe in your own words. Basically a sham marriage. We can probably call it "marital arrangement". Just because billions of people are in such "marital arrangement", doesn't qualify it to be called a "mutually loving, honest and successful marriage". Nothing wrong with that relationship itself, just the wrong use of calling what it is.[/QUOTE]I haven't been following the discussion but did read your comment.

I disagree completely, although understand your point of view. I am married 22 years and am 27 years in my relationship. I know it to be happy and loving. I haven't mongered for a while but did so regularly for five years or so. I consider it nothing more than a hobby. I enjoyed meeting different people, seeing different places and the brief emotional connection. And time to myself.

My wife is unaware. I know that she would not approve. I understand that makes me deceitful, but rationalise it as fine as long as I don't hurt her. And fine as long as it is always a paid for service. Her happiness is more important to me than my own. That is an honest statement.

I'm not saying that I am right or wrong but I strongly believe that I am a loyal husband. Many, including my wife, would disagree. I understand the hypocrisy but I am self-aware. I am wired in a way that means this works for me. That doesn't make me right or wrong, just comfortable in the knowledge that, for me, this can fit around a very happy marriage.

I don't want to give away all my trade secrets. But you hit the nail on the head. For married people especially and for men in relationships in general, there are two constraints: (1) explaining your absence (2) explaining a big hole in the bank balances in case everything you have are in joint accounts.

For 1. The trick is to not arouse the slightest of suspicions. If there is the smallest hint of suspicion, she will search and dig and seek and sooner or later truth can come out, especially in these days where so much of our life exists in electrons and cloud. This is especially if you are in a relationship with a capable and tech savvy woman.

2. For the second, make sure you spend such low and inconspicuous amounts that she will not notice it. Any notice of missing large amounts can end up in 1. Above.

[QUOTE=Colforbin;2329220]As a guy who has never been married, but would like to have a family someday, and now has been bitten by the FKK life, I'd like to hear how some of you married guys from the US get away with taking random trips to Germany?

I've never been in a relationship where I don't get tired of the sex. In my last 3-year relationship, we might have had sex once in the last year. In the beginning we had Eros. And at the end for me it was just Storage and Phila. As much as I would want to be faithful if I were married, I know I will eventually want to scratch the itch.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2329136]Not to reopen a can of worms after we already shook hands on a truce in the Sharks thread -- but the Cosmina and Evita pair bonding in search of Asian customers was indeed a real and tangible one and pointing it is not negative.

Secondly, as I said, this association such as it was, was commented upon by many many members dozens of times but for some reason you picked on a new writer, which is always an easy fight to pick I suppose.

The negative stereotype if it exists is in the minds of WGs. I have personally talked many who say they will only do anal with Asian men. Other girls, through the way they seek out Asian customers, make it very clear who their most sought after clients are. Evita and Cosmina being among them in the last 3 years, when they did work.

If a group of women are acting on a view they internally have about a group of men, simply pointing out that fact does not merit flaming in a forum dedicated to open discussions about exactly that sort of thing in FKK clubs.

As for perpetuating, if I kept on harping this subject that is one thing but that was my first time ever and a simple search would show that other members have made that "negative association" more than once and yet I did not see any flames from you in their direction.[/QUOTE]This remains a civil discussion in my point of view. No worries there. Don't feel targeted as that is not the point. See the recent Sharks thread for worse offenders, which I promptly also criticized. Still, the fact remains, you can't deny your participation in the scapegoating when you write that Cosmina introducing Evita into the Asian specialist world by using terms like blame and dark side. People certainly do not "blame" anyone for anything good. Whether, intentional or subconscious, and whether the worst offender or not, your post was an example of the scapegoating and animosity that is prevalent.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2329053]155 cm and 50 kg with big tits.

5' 1.5" and 110 lbs with big tits.

Would people here consider that considered slim?[/QUOTE]An ISGer sent me a PM criticizing my description of slim. Another posted that these stats show an overweight person. This chart obviously shows they are both quite wrong. Those height-weight stats puts this person near the bottom of the BMI-obesity scale, a measurement that is already notorious for overestimating obesity.

How is the FKK generally in Summer ? will many girls go on vacation ?

[QUOTE=Tuber19;2329331]How is the FKK generally in Summer ? will many girls go on vacation ?[/QUOTE]Hey there, most of ladies know they will get certain peak season during summer and they prefer to stay working for us during our vacation. Just few ladies take holidays on August but just for few days or before IAA on September. Then, they back until Christmas normally. July is always great for me.

[QUOTE=Tuber19;2329331]How is the FKK generally in Summer ? will many girls go on vacation ?[/QUOTE]Beside, summer supposed to be the low season due to many regular girls taking summer holiday and clubs are slightly less in numbers of girls, I actually found most of most beautiful girls I found in FKK during summer season of July and August.

I am guessing this is because before the new law, there were some walk in girls who do it for summer jobs to make quick big cash in two months during summer. Also different clubs do switch girls around during summer the most to keep the lineup numbers, so it may increased girls quality optically.

However, given the new law, it is mystery zone once again during summer time in FKK. I am going in end of August to early September too, so I hope line up is good optically.

I went before the law in both July and August, and I did find real beautiful girls more than normal season and clubs are less full than usual, so it is more relaxed atmosphere. Many regular girls are on holiday thought.

[QUOTE=Tuber19;2329331]How is the FKK generally in Summer ? will many girls go on vacation ?[/QUOTE]August can be slow for beauties, same like Easter or Christmas / Sylvester. Second level can t take long time off. Exceptions are Globe and clubs close to Italian border due to Ferragosto party.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2329181]Usually for girls, I go by height minus 10. So 1.55 cm should be 45 kg. Or 1.65 cm should be 55 kg. But if she goes to the gym and is top fit, then only 5 below can be more correct. But usually when girls are that fit, their fat percentage also falls, so the tits are small, and not big.

Result: a 1.55 m girl at 50 kg with big natural tits either has some crazy genes to give her extra large tits while still being a fitness babe, or she is a little overweight.[/QUOTE]Megan 172 50/52 kg slim, Kate 168 50 kg curvy sexy. Model type is more than 170 and maximum 52 kg, more is not slim, so a 155 with 50 kg girl is really not slim even if she is high level sporty, maximum 45 kg for 155 to be slim even with big 90 C cup which are just water fat, no bones, no muscles which weight.

[QUOTE=Tuber19;2329331]How is the FKK generally in Summer ? will many girls go on vacation ?[/QUOTE]Yes, in August many girls go on holiday. But also men, so ratios are normal.

I love visiting during the summer. Particularly at Sharks which has a great outdoor area, including beds. Some of my best sessions have been outdoors but you will have to deal with the voyeurs.

Do any clubs in Germany have any Chinese, Japanese, Thai, Filipino, Malaysian girls? I remember years ago Bea at Palace but that's it. I haven't been with an Oriental girl since then and would like to.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2329295]An ISGer sent me a PM criticizing my description of slim. Another posted that these stats show an overweight person. This chart obviously shows they are both quite wrong. Those height-weight stats puts this person near the bottom of the BMI-obesity scale, a measurement that is already notorious for overestimating obesity.[/QUOTE]But haven't those BMI charts been changed repeatedly the last two decades? To make people especially in ysa feel more good about themselves?

I found this one too:

[QUOTE=Pistons;2329552]But haven't those BMI charts been changed repeatedly the last two decades? To make people especially in ysa feel more good about themselves?

I found this one too:[/QUOTE]And I kinda agree with this chart quite a lot. But if you don't do fitness, the lower end is about where you should be. And if you do fitness, you can push it up towards the upper end the more you work out.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2329552]But haven't those BMI charts been changed repeatedly the last two decades? To make people especially in ysa feel more good about themselves?

I found this one too:[/QUOTE]No they don't really change all that much. But even on that chart found on tumbler and typed in neon print, 5 foot 1.5 inch is considered ideal, not overweight. Are you sure that you read your source correctly? Mistakes happen.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2329455]Megan 172 50/52 kg slim, Kate 168 50 kg curvy sexy. Model type is more than 170 and maximum 52 kg, more is not slim, so a 155 with 50 kg girl is really not slim even if she is high level sporty, maximum 45 kg for 155 to be slim even with big 90 C cup which are just water fat, no bones, no muscles which weight.[/QUOTE]Absolutely agree. I think only an obese person himself / herself might consider any girl of 155 cm height with more than 45 kg weight to be slim, irrespective of the slight variation of weight due to breast sizes.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2329627]Absolutely agree. I think only an obese person himself / herself might consider any girl of 155 cm height with more than 45 kg weight to be slim, irrespective of the slight variation of weight due to breast sizes.[/QUOTE]Clinicians disagree with you. 45 kg is less than 100 lbs.

[URL]http://www.hunterdiabetescentre.com.au/clinical-trials/attachment/bmichartmetric/[/URL]

Kate and Megan are both well over 50 kg, at least 5 kg over. In comparison, Betty at Sharks is self reported over 50 kg at 155 cm. She is bottom heavy but by no means obese. And if she is over 50 kg, there is no way Kate and Megan weigh less than her.

So certainly a bit off topic but I know many of you enjoy a good FR. This particular one is relevant in a general chat way because it emphasizes the importance of a) Not being so picky as to miss an opportunity and b) Going with the flow. The highlight was definitively blasting through town in HER car with AC / DC full volume. Enjoy!

Caxias do Sul Brazil FR.

Boate Ilha and the World's ugliest Girls Name.

Boate (pronounced bow ah Che) is a nightclub with WGs and onsite rooms for fucking. Great format.

OK before I go any farther let me mention that of perhaps 20 girls I talked to and considered so far on this trip, three were named Eduarda! What a horrible fuckin name! And if that isn't bad enough, the short version of that is Duda. Who wants to fuck someone named Duda? Well apparently I do because I did twice!

So CDS is NOT an easy city to find tons of girls. I researched for months online and only came up with two indies I would do! And hard to find Boates also. Boate Ilha was the only one I found with enough decent review to bother.

Went to BI pretty early on Wednesday. Around 10:30. There was NOT A SINGLE girl and three guys including me (stay with me here it gets better). After about 15 minutes one girl shows up. Thigh high boots and mini skirt. Maybe a 6-7 and as luck would have it she came to sit with me. Her name is Duda and as you will see she grows on me and in fact I would put her more in a 7/8 category having seen her in various different positions.

Even though she is sitting with me she is not very affectionate, enough so that at one point I actually tell her I can't tell if she likes me. She says she does, but clearly I am not going to be Making out like with Tifhany. Anyhow she grows on me and eventually she offers to do a table dance for R50 ($13). Ok bring it! Wow. She is actually quite sexy and has the perfect Brasileira butt. Actually a work of art.

At some point I agree to take her friend also. Definitely more a 6 for me but quite handsy and affectionate. R600 for the pair. By the time we leave there are probably 20 girls there but I would say mostly 5 and 6's. Still the only game in town that I could see. Beware your bar bill may be a lot higher than you expect they have a large card fee and ladies drinks are about 2 x guy drinks. Total damage US $300 including drinks, bar fine and two girls so who am I to complain.

Just like SP the girls had to register with me at the front desk. Not a problem at 12:30. The sex was pretty OK but I would rank it towards the bottom of my other epic experiences. Nonetheless I developed quite some chemistry with Duda and I came to love her bubble butt and massively tattooed body. She's just kind of badass in a sweet way.

Wrapped up after one round. Plenty tired. Summary Boate Ilha will get the job done but not at the level of SP boates. But it's about the only game in town. (There is one called Boate Castelo) but it only had one review.

Next Day Take it Easy not.

So on my final night I was pretty bushed. So I decided to avoid the chase and go for the known thing. Unfortunately Tifhany, Carolina, and Mary all live up north. But Duda has really grown on me and I thought a one on one encounter would have different chemistry and I was 70% right. We Whatsapped ahead of time and I spelled out what I thought I needed in a GFE and she agreed for $100. Not bad!

I got some wine and she came to my room around 11. This was a slightly odd date because she is not naturally affectionate. But in the end I got her worked up and we got it done. Started with some naked kissing me on top on the bed. She kinda gave me the downward hint and down I went. I thought maybe she should be paying me. She had a good time then rode me strong cowgirl for a long while. I'm pretty sure it was real because she really had to work at it to get there rather than the quicknfake moans.

But at some point I was thinking "uh yeah and what about me" She started to head for CBJ which was NOT part of the deal. Eventually I softly persuaded her to move to BBBJ and it was really quite good after some coaching. I really give her the benefit of the doubt here. She is a pretty girl but not a very professional hooker. I gave her some BJ pointers and guidance by hand and she gamely brought things to a close in front of the mirror her on her knees and me standing. With a quality CIM finish.

Even tho we agreed 2 x I knew I was too tired and would need a goodly waiting period. I suggested a wild and crazy idea which she accepted. She had to be back at the Boate at a certain time to avoid a fine. So I said I would go with her and she could help me pick out another girl. So Duda became my wingman for the rest of the night and a sexy wingman she was.

So Duda and I had concluded a nice CIM finish in front of the mirror and agreed she'd be my wingman at Boate Ilha. We ubered over there (Uber is ridiculously cheap here. Like $3 for a ten minute ride).

Let me tell you, BI is different on Thursday. Clearly 40+ girls and as many guys. It is packed. And the quality is higher. Really no 9's, but no 5's either.

Duda and I are given a table (it pays to have a club girl wingman!) And we just take it all in over a drink. After a while we just kind of work the field independently. I pass on a couple girls after intros. And she comes back saying she's been trying to get someone to bite on a table dance. Well it is only $13 so I say let's see it. She lights up like you wouldn't believe. Amazing what $13 can do in certain places.

Now that we have some BFGF going she gives me the ultimate table dance with 10 or so guys drooling around us. Yes the Bunda remains spectacular. Really a top ten butt no lie. And when she drops it down low you can imagine her cowgirling and it's quite hot.

Some time later there is this Barbie blond doing a table dance and I have NEVER seen a woman ooze sex appeal like that. Has 20 guys with boners just standing in awe. I commit right then to trying to get her to go but know there will be a line!

So when she finishes Duda says "you like her" and I say sure. She says she will get her for me. Sure enough she grabs her just outside the bathroom and brings her over. Just sexy as hell. Thanks wing girl!

We agree to head off. She says 350 on-site and 550 off-site. I say let's go on-site. Then she tells me the rooms are shit and convinced me for R550. Remember this is a hot Jennifer Love Hewitt clone but with blond hair past her ass for $140!

Well the adventures continue. She is going to drive and she loves ACDC. We are blasting "She's Got the Jack" atfull volume as we pull in to the love motel (I am not joking!) Just riding in HER car is a thrill (did this with a chick in Moscow also) but it was the music that sealed the deal. Windows down. Air rushing by. Her hair flying everywhere. These are life experiences you take with you.

She's clearly a professional which is sometimes off-putting but she does love her trade. Gets quite worked up during DATY and several positions. So much so that while I finger her while she blows me that she is so wet inside. Just a sexy sloppy mess.

Eventually I blow a load (she gestures no CIM but takes it right till the last second). And we Rock and roll back to my hotel at 4 AM.

Good thing I took it easy my last night!

It is this kind of thing that pays off if you go with the flow. Had I walked out of BI that first night, then no Duda. And no chance to coach her on a proper BBBJ and CIM in front of the mirror. And no wing girl. And no Barbie and driving in her car with She's Got The Jack playing. It was too priceless. And all because I gave a dead club and a single 6/7 a chance.

Hey all,

Been a lurker here, trying to research and read as much as I can. I'm headed to Frankfurt in July and have a few days to play around with. I'm trying to decide if FKK's are more "bang for your buck" than regular escort agencies. Beyond that, when visiting FKK's, should one take a bag with them for toiletries (deodorant, cologne, mouthwash, etc)?

Sub-question, I've read that rooms at Sharks are not air conditioned and can be a bit stuffy for activities during the summer months. Would Oase or Mainhattan be a better alternative, and how do current lineups compare? Thanks in advance.

Even with her weight gain, most people will still consider a girl like Evita of Sharks slim. When she says she is 55 kg and Betty of Sharks says she is over 50 kg, logic dictates that Kate of GT and Megan of Globe who are several inches taller then them are not lighter. What is more likely, a man with a lower vantage point due to stature misjudging a woman's weight or the shorter girls claiming to be [B]heavier[/B] than they actually are?

Who would believe that Megan who is over 6 inches taller than Betty is lighter than her? That statement is inconsistent with the facts and logic.

This 50 kg estimate is grossly inaccurate and misleads readers. (If looking for Kate at GT, don't look for the 168 cm girl who is 50 kg. You will not find her). Instead, look for the 168 kg girl with the big ass who is closer to 55 kg.

Global obesity and optic standards aside, a kg is still a kg whether in America or in Europe.

These girls are normal attractive women, not Victoria Secret or runway models. Slim by VS model standards is a silly and useless standard of the word for FKK mongering purposes.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2329622]No they don't really change all that much. But even on that chart found on tumbler and typed in neon print, 5 foot 1.5 inch is considered ideal, not overweight. Are you sure that you read your source correctly? Mistakes happen.[/QUOTE]From what I know, every single country has its own official BMI chart on average, overweight, obese. And it less and less about health, and more and more about politics. So we might as well make our own.

[blue]I'm going to put both of you in each Ignore List if ever again you complain or quote him, I'm going to Ban you.

Admin3[/blue]

[QUOTE=Pistons;2330061]From what I know, every single country has its own official BMI chart on average, overweight, obese. And it less and less about health, and more and more about politics. So we might as well make our own.[/QUOTE]BMI is not country dependent. And the chart you yourself presented showed the stats quoted was for an ideal woman. It would be easier to just say that your personal definition of slim and overweight is different than mainstream accepted values rather than construct scenarios for argument's sake. Saying that the presented stats represents an overweight person while presenting a chart that contradicts that, well, I can't explain the logic in that.

[QUOTE=Sybarite2006;2329472]Do any clubs in Germany have any Chinese, Japanese, Thai, Filipino, Malaysian girls? I remember years ago Bea at Palace but that's it. I haven't been with an Oriental girl since then and would like to.[/QUOTE]The best looking girl in any FKK I've been to is Thai massage girl Sukanya at Sharks, and I'm not generally into Asians. But all you will get from her is a great massage.

I haven't seen any Asian WGs at an FKK.

[QUOTE=ProjectJaw;2330038]Hey all,

Been a lurker here, trying to research and read as much as I can. I'm headed to Frankfurt in July and have a few days to play around with. I'm trying to decide if FKK's are more "bang for your buck" than regular escort agencies. Beyond that, when visiting FKK's, should one take a bag with them for toiletries (deodorant, cologne, mouthwash, etc)?

Sub-question, I've read that rooms at Sharks are not air conditioned and can be a bit stuffy for activities during the summer months. Would Oase or Mainhattan be a better alternative, and how do current lineups compare? Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]FKKs are more bang for your buck if you plan on doing multiple girls or truly enjoy the spa, pool, garden, food amenities. Being able to see the girls is also a strong benefit.

I bring my own toiletries but you do not have to. Deodorant, mouthwash, and hair product are supplied at Sharks but not at Oase.

Sharks rooms are miserable in July especially if you are a perfuse sweater. The "air conditioned" cabins outside makes it slightly better. There are some sex caves near the Jacuzzis but the air conditioning units are more often malfunctioning. Oase is almost as bad but at least the public areas are air conditioned although the rooms are still stuffy.

Palace is well ventilated and conditioned. I can; t recall Mainhattan being all that bad.

Too many opinions on line up quality to comment much except to say that Sharks by far gets the most visitors, and that includes local Germans as well as tourists.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2329639]Clinicians disagree with you. 45 kg is less than 100 lbs.

[URL]http://www.hunterdiabetescentre.com.au/clinical-trials/attachment/bmichartmetric/[/URL]

Kate and Megan are both well over 50 kg, at least 5 kg over. In comparison, Betty at Sharks is self reported over 50 kg at 155 cm. She is bottom heavy but by no means obese. And if she is over 50 kg, there is no way Kate and Megan weigh less than her.[/QUOTE]Well Takedown, your original question was this:

[QUOTE=Takedown;2329053]155 cm and 50 kg with big tits.

5' 1.5" and 110 lbs with big tits.

Would people here consider that considered slim?[/QUOTE]And I merely stated what I think, essentially what I would consider slim or not. We can agree to disagree, because it's just a matter of personal preference or taste.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2330260]Well Takedown, your original question was this:

And I merely stated what I think, essentially what I would consider slim or not. We can agree to disagree, because it's just a matter of personal preference or taste.[/QUOTE]I never noticed Betty at Sharks, I would say Evita is 165 but not anymore slim, no more waist, even not fat. Megan was refused at Globe on her first try on February 2017, then she returned for 1 month at Sharks to lose weight she got at home with Romanian foods and she tried again and was accepted on April, she is much more slim than Evita, Kate even with curvy ass is also more slim above ass, with narrow waist which make her ratio waist / ass so sexy, compare to Evita who is quite straight body shape. Madi World also had a so sexy ratio ass / waist. Maybe we don t have same standards for slim girls, for sure I find most of American women fat. I remember my first visit on 1996 landing in the morning in Miami, I walked on the beach for more than 6 hours, I think more than 20 km, when I returned to hotel exhausted and so disappointed, I asked I didn't see any Pamela Anderson like she was on playboy before silicon, and I was answered: But Pamela Anderson is not American, she is Western Canadian. Prettiest seen in Florida were Puerto Rican girls, much more sexy and firm than Americans who are really not slim. Some blond Puerto Ricans were really attractive.

[QUOTE=Sybarite2006;2329472]Do any clubs in Germany have any Chinese, Japanese, Thai, Filipino, Malaysian girls? I remember years ago Bea at Palace but that's it. I haven't been with an Oriental girl since then and would like to.[/QUOTE]Two older Thai ladies working at GT Bruggen. There were a couple younger Thai ladies, Mai, and Pim working there but I haven't seen them recently. There was a Filipina lady at GT when I was there about e weeks ago. Reports from last Thursday were that a nice Asian lady was working at LR last Thursday.

[QUOTE=Sybarite2006;2329472]Do any clubs in Germany have any Chinese, Japanese, Thai, Filipino, Malaysian girls? I remember years ago Bea at Palace but that's it. I haven't been with an Oriental girl since then and would like to.[/QUOTE]You can get in Shark.

I am planning a summer trip to the Frankfurt area FKKs in the next few weeks and want to ask about current Top Beauties / Top Girls at the following clubs:

Palace.

Oase.

Sharks.

World.

Mainhattan.

Thanks in advance. (I know beauty is subjective but it is still helpful to have a list of top lookers / performers).

+1.

I am American and I do not disagree! Many American girls, or men for that matter, are quite fat. Too many calories and too little exercise, I'm afraid.

Evita used to be slim. But she has been eating Sharks food that makes all the girls fat. She is better than other girls that have worked at Sharks for this many years but she is no longer young nor slim. However, her Asian customers still seem to like her. This is surprising to me as she is not even a fake blonde.

You are right about Puerto Rican girls in Florida. Some pretty Cuban girls too on the South beach.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2330281]I never noticed Betty at Sharks, I would say Evita is 165 but not anymore slim, no more waist, even not fat. Megan was refused at Globe on her first try on February 2017, then she returned for 1 month at Sharks to lose weight she got at home with Romanian foods and she tried again and was accepted on April, she is much more slim than Evita, Kate even with curvy ass is also more slim above ass, with narrow waist which make her ratio waist / ass so sexy, compare to Evita who is quite straight body shape. Madi World also had a so sexy ratio ass / waist. Maybe we don t have same standards for slim girls, for sure I find most of American women fat. I remember my first visit on 1996 landing in the morning in Miami, I walked on the beach for more than 6 hours, I think more than 20 km, when I returned to hotel exhausted and so disappointed, I asked I didn't see any Pamela Anderson like she was on playboy before silicon, and I was answered: But Pamela Anderson is not American, she is Western Canadian. Prettiest seen in Florida were Puerto Rican girls, much more sexy and firm than Americans who are really not slim. Some blond Puerto Ricans were really attractive.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Sybarite2006;2329472]Do any clubs in Germany have any Chinese, Japanese, Thai, Filipino, Malaysian girls? I remember years ago Bea at Palace but that's it. I haven't been with an Oriental girl since then and would like to.[/QUOTE]If 'Bea' is the Thai girl at Palace in 2009/2010, then there is currently at Sharks, a Filipina called Marlyn whom I find even better than Bee/Bea. Top class service, and with bob hair, cute pixie look. Usually heavily booked.

There is also a very very fat oriental-looking girl at Sharks (ex-World) whom you probably would not want to try, unless you are very short of cash.

[QUOTE=Thanos2019;2330661]There are 3 groups of people on ISG.

First group members think 50 is 50 and a girl needs to provide all services for 50. This includes BBBJ and kissing for sure, sex in multiple positions, perhaps even some ball sucking, FIV, fia, and even rimming. They do not like guys who pay extra money for any of the above services and they call such men tourists and suckers and clueless and worse.

Second group members think 50 is not very much money. Typically members of this group are somewhat affluent or at least they can afford to spend some amount of money in the clubs. These men are willing to pay 100 E or even more for 30 minute sessions to obtain many of the services mentioned above, especially if the girl is pretty. They also look down on members of group 1 and call them cheap Charlie's.

The third group is not very vocal here but they exist. They think it is best to be flexible. Sometimes these men pay extra money for some services and at other times they are strict in their purchases of services. I fall into group 3 most of the time, and perhaps you do as well.[/QUOTE]

Moving the discussion from Mainhattan to Lounge thread.

Eight European countries have legalized prostitution - Austria, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Latvia, Switzerland, Turkey and partially UK. But only Germany and some parts of Austria and Switzerland has any significant FKK type businesses. Greece, Hungary and Turkey are much closer to Romania and Bulgaria from where most of the FKK girls come to Germany for prostitution work. Now, why do you think all these girls come all the way to Germany instead of going to the countries closer (some still goes), which also brings some sex tourists (some stopover travelers too) in turn to Germany? Because besides the strength of economy, Germans built an infrastructure, security and system for this business that no other country provides. That system includes an implied Service vs. Pricing vs. Cost of Living model that keeps the business alive and going. Now, if most of us fucks up that service / pricing model by paying more than what is suggested by that well balanced model due to whatever the reason / justification we may have, what do you think will happen to the overall business and service environment in Germany? My guess, it will become similar to all the other countries in few years. Good luck in having good 30 minutes service for even 200-300 e in couple of years from now, and then slowly the FKKs will die due to lack of customers. So my advice. Let's not to cut the branch of the tree on which we are sitting. Let's not support so much inflation in this business that the business itself falls apart. I don't expect the WGs to understand this economic model albeit simple, but I do expect any monger reading here to at least think twice before next time paying more than the standard rates.

For our reference again, standard rates are: 50 e for 30 minutes of service including BBBJ, DFK, FIV, BLS, COB etc, with each additional 30 minutes unit of time for additional 50e.
Only extras are: CIM or COF for additional 50e, anal additional 100e. Both one time charge irrespective of how many times that activity happened when you stayed with her for multiple units of time.
There is absolutely no extra charge for multiple positions, it's not even a thing, never was and never should be. Obviously you cannot expect the girl to be in a position of cartwheel or pile-driver unless she wants to do that. Only normal sex positions please.

Interestingly, this is exactly what a new receptionist at Oase told me as prices for services, when I asked couple of years back.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2330940]Moving the discussion from Mainhattan to Lounge thread.

Eight European countries have legalized prostitution - Austria, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Latvia, Switzerland, Turkey and partially UK. But only Germany and some parts of Austria and Switzerland has any significant FKK type businesses. Greece, Hungary and Turkey are much closer to Romania and Bulgaria from where most of the FKK girls come to Germany for prostitution work. Now, why do you think all these girls come all the way to Germany instead of going to the countries closer (some still goes), which also brings some sex tourists (some stopover travelers too) in turn to Germany? Because besides the strength of economy, Germans built an infrastructure, security and system for this business that no other country provides. That system includes an implied Service vs. Pricing vs. Cost of Living model that keeps the business alive and going. Now, if most of us fucks up that service / pricing model by paying more than what is suggested by that well balanced model due to whatever the reason / justification we may have, what do you think will happen to the overall business and service environment in Germany? My guess, it will become similar to all the other countries in few years. Good luck in having good 30 minutes service for even 200-300 e in couple of years from now, and then slowly the FKKs will die due to lack of customers. So my advice. Let's not to cut the branch of the tree on which we are sitting. Let's not support so much inflation in this business that the business itself falls apart. I don't expect the WGs to understand this economic model albeit simple, but I do expect any monger reading here to at least think twice before next time paying more than the standard rates..[/QUOTE]Well said Gino, well said. Every monger should consider this.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2330940]Moving the discussion from Mainhattan to Lounge thread.


Interestingly, this is exactly what a new receptionist at Oase told me as prices for services, when I asked couple of years back.[/QUOTE]Regarding Germany and why all girls go there: It is simply because of its economy and especially Frankfurt and NRW. Just look at the cars that park outside the clubs.

Regarding the price list: Why not just two types of service a. Classic and be Full.

Classic could be 150 / h including everything except anal and full 200 including anal. Then girls would stop charging everything for extra and the clients would know that for 150 they get what they want. Of course there will always be those mongers who go to clubs for 3 50's rounds but leaving the club I don't think they would be more happier. It is the quality that counts not the quantity.

[QUOTE=Thanos2019;2330652]+1.

I am American and I do not disagree! Many American girls, or men for that matter, are quite fat. Too many calories and too little exercise, I'm afraid.

Evita used to be slim. But she has been eating Sharks food that makes all the girls fat. She is better than other girls that have worked at Sharks for this many years but she is no longer young nor slim. However, her Asian customers still seem to like her. This is surprising to me as she is not even a fake blonde.

You are right about Puerto Rican girls in Florida. Some pretty Cuban girls too on the South beach.[/QUOTE]I never been with her, she thought my writings about her Asian business were critics, but even not so slim than Megan, but usually and even Megan enjoy good Romanian foods for them, at home, I think they miss their origin when they are in brothels, but among a poor casting on Friday 17 May, Evita was still above many GND even not a tight waist, but at least a bit glamour look with her hair. Not yet on American women body look level, fortunately she is still more fresh. I think Romanians are far prettier than most of American girls.

Cubans are too dark for me, some Puerto Ricans are quite Caucasian type.

[QUOTE=Sebastiane;2330590]I am planning a summer trip to the Frankfurt area FKKs in the next few weeks and want to ask about current Top Beauties / Top Girls at the following clubs:

Palace.

Oase.

Sharks.

World.

Mainhattan.

Thanks in advance. (I know beauty is subjective but it is still helpful to have a list of top lookers / performers).[/QUOTE]For my subjective tastes used to get beauties in clubs, I like Sharks for the club, but I m not anymore good to find chic beauties at Sharks, when I had many, but I would be happy to find a new one like high class one found on last June for a week end and next Friday.

From what I saw on a April Saturday, I think World worth a look, but only on Friday or Saturday.

Sometimes, can find a top girl at Palace.

Oase is a real good surprise for me since beginning of April, I found 5 beauties, last coming from Mainhattan, I have a new really attractive target, I got really good rooms. My best playfield at the moment with sports in the garden.

Please empty your inbox monsieur -- I tried to message you but couldn't because it's full.

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[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2330978]Regarding Germany and why all girls go there: It is simply because of its economy and especially Frankfurt and NRW. Just look at the cars that park outside the clubs.

Regarding the price list: Why not just two types of service a. Classic and be Full.

Classic could be 150 / h including everything except anal and full 200 including anal. Then girls would stop charging everything for extra and the clients would know that for 150 they get what they want. Of course there will always be those mongers who go to clubs for 3 50's rounds but leaving the club I don't think they would be more happier. It is the quality that counts not the quantity.[/QUOTE]Well, if you are going to pay so much higher than current German standard rates, why not go to Switzerland where standard rates are 2 to 5 times higher than Germany. Also girls can go to Switzerland to follow your extra money, but they do have to be of a minimum beautiful look and have to provide solid service or they are out. You can find more on this on the ISG Switzerland thread. I think you will also learn why there are so fewer number of FKKs and fewer number of FKK girls in Switzerland compared to Germany, despite having much more disposable or floating money than Germany.

I doubt that the German FKK ecosystem can survive too much price inflation. If rates go too high compared to average German income and cost of living increases, locals will reduce visits, girls won't be able to compensate income only from the 20-30% tourists, less girls will remain or enter in the FKK system, clubs will make less money due to reduced number of customers and girls, eventually many clubs will collapse. So please be careful when you disrupt this unique German FKK ecosystem and turn it into similar to rest of the world.

[QUOTE=Tuber19;2329331]How is the FKK generally in Summer ? will many girls go on vacation ?[/QUOTE]Just go through the forum every year the same question is coming, but in fact nobody is able to tell you what will be the LU in any FKK tomorrow so also impossible next month but in the big clubs there will be always enough girls if you are not too demanding you will find one for you.

[QUOTE=Thanos2019;2330652]+1.

I am American and I do not disagree! Many American girls, or men for that matter, are quite fat. Too many calories and too little exercise, I'm afraid.

Evita used to be slim. But she has been eating Sharks food that makes all the girls fat. She is better than other girls that have worked at Sharks for this many years but she is no longer young nor slim. However, her Asian customers still seem to like her. This is surprising to me as she is not even a fake blonde.

You are right about Puerto Rican girls in Florida. Some pretty Cuban girls too on the South beach.[/QUOTE]Only FKK I can think of that has the gym is Artemis, where I have seen many girls working out both weight lifting and cardio, so in Artemis you have a choice to do extra work out on top of sex. But beside that in most other FKK, when girls stay too long, they tend to expand in size. I guess just sex is not enough to keep them in shape.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2331115]Well, if you are going to pay so much higher than current German standard rates, .[/QUOTE]I know that these are the current German standard rates but in reality how many people pay 50 for 30 minutes?

I think that when you know that you will pay 150/ hour and have BBBJ, FIV, DATY, CIM / COF you would rather prefer to do that. 2 sessions with super sexy women doing everything you like and walking out of a club with 300 euro less is not so bad. Many people pay much more and they are nor happy. Of course I understand this is not good for the clubs who want to have as much as fee entrance clients even if they don't spend a euro on girls because they can't find what they want. I hear that Globe has this elegance style that is similar to my taste and as far as I know it is surviving so if in Swiss why not in Germany?

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2331401]I know that these are the current German standard rates but in reality how many people pay 50 for 30 minutes?

I think that when you know that you will pay 150/ hour and have BBBJ, FIV, DATY, CIM / COF you would rather prefer to do that. 2 sessions with super sexy women doing everything you like and walking out of a club with 300 euro less is not so bad. Many people pay much more and they are nor happy. Of course I understand this is not good for the clubs who want to have as much as fee entrance clients even if they don't spend a euro on girls because they can't find what they want. I hear that Globe has this elegance style that is similar to my taste and as far as I know it is surviving so if in Swiss why not in Germany?[/QUOTE]Once you visit Switzerland (Globe and other clubs there) and observe, you will see yourself why this would not work in Germany, at least not at the massive scale the FKKs are run in Germany. For now, I will tell you this. Globe being the most famous and largest in Switzerland, limits only 55-60 girls per day (except for special occasions like Halloween, NYE etc when they bring about 20-30 additional girls from their other smaller clubs). They keep very tight leash on the girls, both for keeping their looks (not becoming fat, not getting too many new tattoos etc etc) and quality of service (eg CIM with swallow means truly swallow my sperm that I can see, not turn away from me and spit it out). Each new girl has to answer Yes / No to 30 different services questions during their hiring interview, these services questions include some pretty nasty things eg NS active, NS passive, Kaviar play active and passive, sperm swallow, public gangbang etc etc, and doesn't mater how beautiful the girl is, she won't be hired if she doesn't check Yes to at least 20 of those 30 services. Even after being hired, if more than 3 customers complain about service, the girl will be either terminated or put in reserve bench or at least transferred to one of their smaller cheaper clubs as a punishment, unless the girl is a special favorite of the management which is not very often. More girls apply for working in Globe in every month than actually working in that month. Even with these strict standards for looks and services for girls and so much more affluent customers in the country, Globe gets maybe 100-200 customers per day, average being less. Do you think Sharks or Oase will like to run their business with so few entry fees? Can they even get 50-60 Globe quality girls every week, and 100 Globe level affluent customers who usually spend minimum 600 CHF per visit (many spend 2000-4000 CHF per visit, even poor me had spent 3600 CHF in one night once with my average being 600-1000 CHF per visit)? German FKK business thrives with large middle class customer base being serviced by large base of average quality girls for a lower standard prices; not the same as the Swiss high-end business model. Of course things can change, but I doubt we will see German FKKs doing better with increased rates anytime soon, rather they will struggle to stay open if their micro-economic model gets disrupted without improvement of the German macro-economic situation (increased income level of local Germans). Only tourists paying higher rates will not be enough for German FKKs to survive long term at the same scale.

Besides, as a tourist myself, I refuse to pay higher (or lower) than the standard rates in the country I am visiting. I respect the country I am visiting, I am grateful that they let me in to experience something that is not there in my home country, and I will not do anything to break something they have and cherish, even if I want something else or something more. For me, the standard FKK service rates are defined by the clubs and / or locals, not by travelers or tourists like me. Also, I have no issue paying higher rates in Globe as the club guarantees service quality from the optifick girls (mostly top 1% level of the German FKK girls), but I do not see justification to pay similar rates for some girl who for whatever reason is not working at Globe or at a similar club with service guarantee.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2331482]Once you visit Switzerland (Globe and other clubs there) and observe, you will see yourself why this would not work in Germany, at least not at the massive scale the FKKs are run in Germany. For now, I will tell you this. Globe being the most famous and largest in Switzerland, limits only 55-60 girls per day (except for special occasions like Halloween, NYE etc when they bring about 20-30 additional girls from their other smaller clubs). They keep very tight leash on the girls, both for keeping their looks (not becoming fat, not getting too many new tattoos etc etc) and quality of service (eg CIM with swallow means truly swallow my sperm that I can see, not turn away from me and spit it out). Each new girl has to answer Yes / No to 30 different services questions during their hiring interview, these services questions include some pretty nasty things eg NS active, NS passive, Kaviar play active and passive, sperm swallow, public gangbang etc etc, and doesn't mater how beautiful the girl is, she won't be hired if she doesn't check Yes to at least 20 of those 30 services. Even after being hired, if more than 3 customers complain about service, the girl will be either terminated or put in reserve bench or at least transferred to one of their smaller cheaper clubs as a punishment, unless the girl is a special favorite of the management which is not very often. More girls apply for working in Globe in every month than actually working in that month. Even with these strict standards for looks and services for girls and so much more affluent customers in the country, Globe gets maybe 100-200 customers per day, average being less. Do you think Sharks or Oase will like to run their business with so few entry fees?.[/QUOTE]Wow your post was very informative about Globe and I get your point now, thank you! Also makes me want to catch the plane to Zurich right away!

Planning a trip to Frankfurt this summer. I'm still waiting for my FKK debut and want it to be successful. I want to enjoy the good weather hence would like the club to at least have a garden. Seems to me World would be the obvious choice.

Is / are there any reason / s I should pick some other FKK over World? I'd say most women look good with a suntan why I wouldn't care too much if World doesn't have the prettiest girls. And even though the facilities of Sharks and Oase seem better and more modern still they can't compete with World's outdoors area. Let me know what you think.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2331156]Only FKK I can think of that has the gym is Artemis, where I have seen many girls working out both weight lifting and cardio, so in Artemis you have a choice to do extra work out on top of sex. But beside that in most other FKK, when girls stay too long, they tend to expand in size. I guess just sex is not enough to keep them in shape.[/QUOTE]You can easily see it in some clubs where the girls have an inherent culture of fitness, while in other clubs nobody hits the gym. Acapulco Velbert for example comes to mind when I think of this. There was a gym many of them used just down the road. Very close by the club.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2331482] Globe being the most famous and largest in Switzerland, limits only 55-60 girls per day (except for special occasions like Halloween, NYE etc when they bring about 20-30 additional girls from their other smaller clubs). They keep very tight leash on the girls, both for keeping their looks (not becoming fat, not getting too many new tattoos etc etc) and quality of service (eg CIM with swallow means truly swallow my sperm that I can see, not turn away from me and spit it out). Each new girl has to answer Yes / No to 30 different services questions during their hiring interview, these services questions include some pretty nasty things eg NS active, NS passive, Kaviar play active and passive, sperm swallow, public gangbang etc etc, and doesn't mater how beautiful the girl is, she won't be hired if she doesn't check Yes to at least 20 of those 30 services. Even after being hired, if more than 3 customers complain about service, the girl will be either terminated or put in reserve bench or at least transferred to one of their smaller cheaper clubs as a punishment, unless the girl is a special favorite of the management which is not very often. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2331708]Wow your post was very informative about Globe and I get your point now, thank you! Also makes me want to catch the plane to Zurich right away![/QUOTE]Salaam Pksimar,

Although Globe is one of my favorite FKKs, Gino's description is exaggerated in my opinion. If you read the Globe thread you will read many reports of "princess attitude". Some of the prettier girls will simply refuse to go with most customers, sticking to their personal favorites. I have experienced this personally. This kind of behavior would be impossible if Globe management were keeping as tight a ship as Gino suggests.

The idea of a "service guarantee" is a myth, no matter how much mongers want to believe in it. It is true that if you make a complaint Globe management will listen to it, or at least make a much better act of listening to it than at German FKKs. However, the reality is that, even at Globe, most mongers are loathe to complain when they are cheated because they are afraid it will reflect on them more than the girl -- and unfortunately, they may be right.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2331708]Wow your post was very informative about Globe and I get your point now, thank you! Also makes me want to catch the plane to Zurich right away![/QUOTE]Pksimar69, glad this was informative for you. I think you will enjoy Globe and other clubs in Switzerland as you are willing to pay for guaranted solid service by beautiful non-fat no-cellulite girls. FYI, if you are already in Frankfurt area and have a car, you can simply drive to Globe, it's only about 3:30 to 4 hours drive thru mostly little traffic on autobahn except near Frankfurt and Stuttgart. But make sure that you have insurance to drive in Switzerland, it's separate from insurance in Germany. Also speed limits are much lower in Switzerland, so be careful to not get a ticket by many many speed checking cameras they have. Flying into Zurich is obviously another option, though usually much more expensive. I fly into Zurich only if I'm coming from far and know that I'm not going to be in Frankfurt area in that trip. Good luck and enjoy!

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2332121]Salaam Pksimar,

Although Globe is one of my favorite FKKs, Gino's description is exaggerated in my opinion. If you read the Globe thread you will read many reports of "princess attitude". Some of the prettier girls will simply refuse to go with most customers, sticking to their personal favorites. I have experienced this personally. This kind of behavior would be impossible if Globe management were keeping as tight a ship as Gino suggests.

The idea of a "service guarantee" is a myth, no matter how much mongers want to believe in it. It is true that if you make a complaint Globe management will listen to it, or at least make a much better act of listening to it than at German FKKs. However, the reality is that, even at Globe, most mongers are loathe to complain when they are cheated because they are afraid it will reflect on them more than the girl -- and unfortunately, they may be right.[/QUOTE]Yeah Poly, I also read some of those "princess attitude" and refusals reports, but I personally experienced any sort of refusal (not really any princess attitude) only couple of times in last 4-5 years of 25+ visits to Globe. Once was Kate on NYE party couple of years back but she was all day booked by a customer (interestingly an Asian guy paying for the whole night, so probably 3000 CHF or more for 10-12 hours at 280 CHF per hour!) And the other was when I stopped a girl who just started her day but she said her customer is coming to the club in few minutes and she wants to keep herself fresh for the 6 hours session he booked ahead. I don't think we can call these "princess attitude" or refusals to go with me, these are simply schedule conflicts in my opinion. Kate found me in my next visit which happened to be a public sex Tuesday, apologized for the NYE busy night situation, and then we had sex in public all over the club, she even showed off her blowjob and cowgirl skills on me on the stage. We had too much fun that day. Few of her regulars were in the front row seats when we were fucking on the stage, she said "let me make my regulars a bit jealous, this will be fun" LOL. Only mediocre session I ever had in Globe was with Megan, I don't think she really enjoys sex, at least was not with me, though still way better than the upsellers and sharky girls in Germany now. My next goal is to do Carmen and Romina at the main bar on those bar stools, on a day other than Tuesday.

Are you sure that "service guarantee" is a myth at Globe? Over the years, many girls requested me to give good reviews after our sessions in case I was asked by the front desk guy or the manager, as they didn't want to be transferred to smaller cheaper sister clubs or be put in reserve or terminated; some of these girls almost sounded scared about bad reviews! Front desk guy almost always (and the manager on duty sometimes) asks me about the session quality when I pay or leave, and I am yet to complain as I haven't had any reason yet.

With regards to Service vs. Payment Discussion, IDEALLY Gino02's view is correct. But in reality, only very small percentage of the new fly-in FKK mongers read this FKK forum. I think that most of the new fly-in FKK mongers who don't read this forum overpay the WGs anyway, so the WGs will still try or insist to overcharge any new fly-in monger because overcharging works for them. If the readers here, who are FKK newbies, refuse to pay overcharge or extra as Gino02 hopes, it would very often end up with no deal for them. But they visit FKK clubs for having a good time, if they can't get what they want within their budget, it would be unfair to them because the FKK newbies who don't read this forum get what they want within their budget.

So my view is that you (the FKK newbie) should try to negotiate a best deal for you. If you want to do the WG badly and can afford the final deal with her, don't refuse the deal even if you overpay it, because you come to FKK clubs to have a good time.

Other solution: change clubs. Everyone knows in which clubs you can find the biggest scammers and guess what, they are the most discussed clubs on this board. Oase: 26 000 posts. Sharks: 21.000 posts. Artemis: 11 000 posts. Palace: 11 000 posts. World: 11 000 posts.

Maybe the fly in mongers like to pay more actually.

[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2332169]Other solution: change clubs. Everyone knows in which clubs you can find the biggest scammers and guess what, they are the most discussed clubs on this board. Oase: 26 000 posts. Sharks: 21.000 posts. Artemis: 11 000 posts. Palace: 11 000 posts. World: 11 000 posts.[/QUOTE]

Well said (although nearly all the World posts are from its heydays). I go to a club where there is no scamming, DFK is ubiquitous, girls are relaxed, and where there are enough super slim girls to keep me more than busy. It is just so pleasant to know that I do not have to negotiate before going to a room.

Of course a few girls are always pushing the boundaries. Today there was a conversation with me, another guy, and a stunning girl, who was having trouble believing that guys were refusing to go with her because she refused to kiss. She clearly had never encountered this problem during her career at certain other clubs. She said she would reflect on her service standard. Lovely girl but not for me.

And of course there are other clubs where, with certain compromises on the optics, superb service is available with ultra friendly girls for 30 euros.

I will consider reporting on my recent visits to these clubs, but probably will not as such reports tend to be denigrated by aficionados of certain other clubs. So I will just say, if you are not happy with the price / service of the club you are going to, just walk away and try another one.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2331401]I know that these are the current German standard rates but in reality how many people pay 50 for 30 minutes?[/QUOTE]I raise my hand. . I just had 8 gals between Oase and Mainhatten (5 and 3) and stuck to $50 sessions. I have long travelog will try and post in some appropriate section. Am in Frankfurt for 10 days /9 nights.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2332048]You can easily see it in some clubs where the girls have an inherent culture of fitness, while in other clubs nobody hits the gym. Acapulco Velbert for example comes to mind when I think of this. There was a gym many of them used just down the road. Very close by the club.[/QUOTE]Yes, I also think that having gym near by helps considering hard working hours / type of job of FKK girls. In case of Artemis, it is in house gym down stairs and I even saw security guy doing personal training to some girls.

LR also has gym near by, I see one on the way to LR like few minutes walk.

[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2332169]Other solution: change clubs. Everyone knows in which clubs you can find the biggest scammers and guess what, they are the most discussed clubs on this board. Oase: 26 000 posts. Sharks: 21.000 posts. Artemis: 11 000 posts. Palace: 11 000 posts. World: 11 000 posts.

[/QUOTE]If the optics and sizes of the lineup in the clubs outside Frankfurt area were at the same level as the above clubs in Frankfurt area, I would agree with you. But from what I read here, the optics and sizes in the clubs in Frankfurt are better than the optics and sizes in other area, which I think makes sense logically although I have never been to any club in Frankfurt area. If the newbies look for good time with top-optic WGs, more choices of WGs and geographic convenience and have abundant mongering budgets. I think that they would prefer to go to the clubs in Frankfurt because they have better chance to find the WGs they like. As the seasoned FKK veterans with years experience, you and Optimist have been visiting Germany several times a year and already did many top-optic WGs, so it is much easier for you guys to stay away from the clubs most likely with top-optic WGs like the clubs you mentioned. This is like a rock star or movie star who already did at least several supermodels advises an aspiring musician, an aspiring actor or an ordinary person to walk away from his first opportunity to fuck a supermodel. We have to consider the factor that they are newbies when we talk about this subject.

Bfsie. I agree that what suits one person may not be appropriate for another. And especially for some it may be that the wow factor of the biggest clubs overrides other considerations. I am sorry if I came across as being prescriptive. I do repeat my point that if a club does not suit a person in terms of service level or anything else, they would be well advised to quickly explore elsewhere. No need to settle for higher prices or poor service.

I disagree that this means compromising on optics, except maybe in quantity. I totally think Oase opticswise has a wow factor simply because of the numbers. But if you mean optics of girls with whom one goes to room with, there is no need to compromise (unless going to the red carpet clubs). In fact, personally, as time goes on I have become more uncompromising in my optics assessments.

Each to his own.

Cheers.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2332458]Bfsie. I agree that what suits one person may not be appropriate for another. And especially for some it may be that the wow factor of the biggest clubs overrides other considerations. I am sorry if I came across as being prescriptive. I do repeat my point that if a club does not suit a person in terms of service level or anything else, they would be well advised to quickly explore elsewhere. No need to settle for higher prices or poor service.

I disagree that this means compromising on optics, except maybe in quantity. I totally think Oase opticswise has a wow factor simply because of the numbers. But if you mean optics of girls with whom one goes to room with, there is no need to compromise (unless going to the red carpet clubs). In fact, personally, as time goes on I have become more uncompromising in my optics assessments.

Each to his own.

Cheers.[/QUOTE]I have 0 compromises on optic, the girls must be a stunner for me or I don t go, I don t care what she is speaking or how she fucks, just beauty matters, for all the rest I don t need to go to a prostitutes, I consider that in a FKK everything is fake, cheating only beauty is true if you check carefully the girls: sili, botox, poor skin, smoking are all no go.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2332135]Yeah Poly, I also read some of those "princess attitude" and refusals reports, but I personally experienced any sort of refusal (not really any princess attitude) only couple of times in last 4-5 years of 25+ visits to Globe.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Gino02;2332135]
Are you sure that "service guarantee" is a myth at Globe?
[/QUOTE][NOPARSE]
Sure you have a guarantee. Your guarantee is "Things will go right until they go wrong."[/NOPARSE]

Suppose you go to a fancy restaurant ten times and get a delicious meal each time. But on your eleventh visit you ask for a steak sandwich and your order gets mixed up and instead you get served a [I]shit[/I] sandwich. After your first juicy bite you may be sufficiently shocked never to visit the establishment again. The manager might apologize but you will wonder, "Jeez but why did they even have that on the menu in the first place?" And even if you return for the good stuff you will never speak of "guarantees" again.

Well something like that happened to me at Globe and I didn't want to waste time dick-aching about #firstworldproblems, but you used the word "guarantee" and there are no guarantees in life. OK maybe at a high-class restaurant but not at an FKK.

[NOPARSE]Still I don't deny the club is worth a visit if you happen to be stuck in that somewhat decadent neighborhood (i.e. Europe).[/NOPARSE]

"Whenever we manage to love without expectations, calculations, negotiations, we are indeed in heaven. " -- Rumi.

[QUOTE=Milfotronic;2331767]Planning a trip to Frankfurt this summer. I'm still waiting for my FKK debut and want it to be successful. I want to enjoy the good weather hence would like the club to at least have a garden. Seems to me World would be the obvious choice.

Is / are there any reason / s I should pick some other FKK over World? I'd say most women look good with a suntan why I wouldn't care too much if World doesn't have the prettiest girls. And even though the facilities of Sharks and Oase seem better and more modern still they can't compete with World's outdoors area. Let me know what you think.[/QUOTE]My preference in summer is Sharks. The outdoor area is great.

I'm not a fan of the Oase outdoor space.

It is a long time since I was at World.

[QUOTE=Milfotronic;2331767]Planning a trip to Frankfurt this summer. I'm still waiting for my FKK debut and want it to be successful. I want to enjoy the good weather hence would like the club to at least have a garden. Seems to me World would be the obvious choice.

Is / are there any reason / s I should pick some other FKK over World? I'd say most women look good with a suntan why I wouldn't care too much if World doesn't have the prettiest girls. And even though the facilities of Sharks and Oase seem better and more modern still they can't compete with World's outdoors area. Let me know what you think.[/QUOTE]World LU in summer can be quite reduced, no good for first timer to stick to one club, if the weather is bad it will be useless to have that big outside premises, the club is also a bit updated. The garden is important but not the key for a great time, LU is the key and better you also give a visit to Shark at least if not Oase. German forums are still negative about World.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2332121]Salaam Pksimar,

Although Globe is one of my favorite FKKs, Gino's description is exaggerated in my opinion. If you read the Globe thread you will read many reports of "princess attitude". Some of the prettier girls will simply refuse to go with most customers, sticking to their personal favorites. I have experienced this personally. This kind of behavior would be impossible if Globe management were keeping as tight a ship as Gino suggests.

The idea of a "service guarantee" is a myth, no matter how much mongers want to believe in it. It is true that if you make a complaint Globe management will listen to it, or at least make a much better act of listening to it than at German FKKs. However, the reality is that, even at Globe, most mongers are loathe to complain when they are cheated because they are afraid it will reflect on them more than the girl -- and unfortunately, they may be right.[/QUOTE]Yes, Globe girls are more inspected, so they have better care and look, when you can find little monkeys with very average teeth in Germany, but Globe is not hell for girls, Megan there since 2 years now, Larissa, Sofia and even Kate, are not warriors, if it was so difficult, they would not be able to resist, even for big money. I would like to see Kate trying to make me jealous being fucked in public in front of me, when she stopped with her client in September and I was not even close to them, about 10 meters far, but as soon she saw me, but it was already too late, killing my desire for her, then she could have seen in my eyes how a dreamed princess can become just a prostitute. It was not on a Tuesday but Friday, most often, she takes voyeur Tuesdays off, she really doesn't need this kind of business.

What is true is some girls, even Joana when she started, are afraid of bad report to desk after room. Never experienced princess behavior, girls usually return to me, at Globe or in Germany I don t run after our discovery, they can choose and they have to show me they choose me, to interest me.

Globe is the highest level I know in FKK land for looks and level in bed, when I was really disappointed by Aphrodisia average level of looks, but I understood this is not a good club for me, about image of women I look for, I'm not excited by prostitutes, but more by chic, elegance and charm, and also Swiss administration mafia don t help, so maybe on my way to my mountains, through Albanian go fast holes, but I prefer to work harder in Germany to get good from girls, even I hate when I waste my money, even less expensive, with average girls, like 50 wasted with Magdalena ex Mainhattan at Finca, who is on Globe level for look, but not for care, ashtray, and level in bed, just suck and fuck level.

[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2332169]Other solution: change clubs. Everyone knows in which clubs you can find the biggest scammers and guess what, they are the most discussed clubs on this board. Oase: 26 000 posts. Sharks: 21.000 posts. Artemis: 11 000 posts. Palace: 11 000 posts. World: 11 000 posts.

Maybe the fly in mongers like to pay more actually.[/QUOTE]Oase and Sharks are fine clubs which fit the need for the most number of mongers but perhaps some mongers with a lot of miles on their bodies have specialized needs and can't have fun there.

Thread post counts in Oase and Sharks are inflated due to the frequent, regular posters here and less due to newbie postings. Search function shows quite a few members who regularly bash the megaclubs are nevertheless posting very frequently in those threads. Conversely, while they love smaller clubs and undiscovered gems with outstanding service, the smaller club threads still have few and infrequent posts. Only Finca is getting some traffic of late, and it is not a truly small club either nor is it undiscovered.

I understand many senior members like to keep the good clubs and better girls a secret to themselves and discuss them in PMs with each other but not write in the public threads. That may be a good strategy for them. Perhaps that explains why the megaclubs have more participation from the senior regular members in terms of posting count while they actually seem to like the smaller clubs but post less in those threads.

However, the forum will be better off if information is shared openly and equally with all members, whether they post or not. Keep in mind, at some point all of us were newbies and all of us posted for the first time and attended a club for the first time. If megaclubs are crap as you believe but have much better options elsewhere, sharing openly will grab the attention of all readers, and traffic (both on ISG and attendance at the club) will be redirected to those clubs.

Due to their location, Frankfurt and Berlin will always have the most attendees but open sharing can help. That is also better than putting down the newbies and megaclubs and sex tourists.

[QUOTE=Frozty;2332657]My preference in summer is Sharks. The outdoor area is great.

I'm not a fan of the Oase outdoor space.

It is a long time since I was at World.[/QUOTE]I love outside chalets at Sharks, just have desperately to find a beauty. I dream to take a Jane, not vulgar one at LR, in tree room at World. Oase garden is the most sporty and not only for football. On Summer, Hessen is where you feel the most on holidays, compare to NRW, only Villa Vanilla ex Vertigo garden with swimming pool is really enjoyable and YY is really missing for garden with swimming pool. New Magnum will have outside swimming pool, wait and see for casting. DV is a beautiful club, but unfortunately, very average casting for my eyes.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2332458]

I disagree that this means compromising on optics, except maybe in quantity. I totally think Oase opticswise has a wow factor simply because of the numbers. But if you mean optics of girls with whom one goes to room with, there is no need to compromise (unless going to the red carpet clubs). In fact, personally, as time goes on I have become more uncompromising in my optics assessments.

Each to his own.

Cheers.[/QUOTE]Optimist,

As I said, I have never been to any club in Frankfurt area, so I can't agree or disagree with you personally. From what I read here from the posters, I have firm impression that the level of WG's optics in the clubs in Frankfurt area, particularly Sharks and Oase, is higher than elsewhere. I wish I had visited there and found it out by myself. Cheers.

Actually they're not, that's mainly self persuasion. The number of girls is higher but you're not walking in a model agency.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2333027]Optimist,

As I said, I have never been to any club in Frankfurt area, so I can't agree or disagree with you personally. From what I read here from the posters, I have firm impression that the level of WG's optics in the clubs in Frankfurt area, particularly Sharks and Oase, is higher than elsewhere. I wish I had visited there and found it out by myself. Cheers.[/QUOTE]I don't think you have missed anything apart from the sheer numbers and the nakedness. There are many superb looking girls in NRW. I shall never forget Linda's breasts at LR :D

Enjoy.

Sirioja. You mention Magdalena. I think she is a case of YMMV. I had several discussions with her before going to a room, and she delivered on all the promises. Absolutely not suck and fuck only. On that occasion at least. She was very sweet with me

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2332927]Oase and Sharks are fine clubs which fit the need for the most number of mongers but perhaps some mongers with a lot of miles on their bodies have specialized needs and can't have fun there.

Thread post counts in Oase and Sharks are inflated due to the frequent, regular posters here and less due to newbie postings. Search function shows quite a few members who regularly bash the megaclubs are nevertheless posting very frequently in those threads. Conversely, while they love smaller clubs and undiscovered gems with outstanding service, the smaller club threads still have few and infrequent posts. Only Finca is getting some traffic of late, and it is not a truly small club either nor is it undiscovered.

I understand many senior members like to keep the good clubs and better girls a secret to themselves and discuss them in PMs with each other but not write in the public threads.

[/QUOTE]The reference to mongers with a lot of miles on their bodies, and the connection to recent reports on Finca would appear to relate to me :)

Regardless of who you are referring to, you are assuming that you know the motivations and private actions of people you do not know personally, even if you have gathered information about them. I suggest it is a good idea for all of us to refrain from attributing motives and hidden actions to other members. What we claim about other members is more likely to reveal more about our own view of the world. Do you feel you are being excluded from something?I can't believe any member thinks they can keep a good club from you. I am more than happy to answer any questions you might have about things you feel are being hidden. Anyway, I agree, the more information posted, the better, even if some weird guys then use it to diss other members to the girls. Now that your handle has been active for some time I look forward to some field reports from you to convert me to a Sharks' aficionado :D. I had hoped to run into you at Sharks today

I am continually amazed :confused: at the ongoing battle between avid supporters of the mega clubs and any criticism of them. Everybody is entitled to have their own preferences and to explain why. I love Oase and World, have always hated Palace, and just don't enjoy Sharks. But in all these clubs there are girls worth travelling long distances for. What I don't like is having to deal with sharks, of which there are many at these clubs. So, newbies, locals, flyin guests, megarich guests, all can go to the club which suits them

Sorry that I gave the impression you articulated below. I am not yet knowledgeable about most of the senior members here although I have been lurking for a while before I began finally writing. What I want to say, my comment was not most certainly not related to any person and certainly not you.

In a way, it could be about me. I find that I become jaded as I age, and need more to stimulate me to the same degree. I was married and that was sufficient to make me and keep me happy, then I needed more, and more and more. In the mainstream clubs, the services tend to be, well mainstream. So, it kinda makes sense that as one becomes more experienced they may want more things and seek out specialized clubs. It was most certainly not derogatory comment.

I quite agree with your second paragraph and this is exactly my intent in making my prior comment. There is a lot of bashing of the megaclubs here. The gentleman to whom I had responded referred to the post counts as a way to prove that megaclubs are overrun with newbies and tourists and implied that they are happy to be ripped off and I believe you expressed your own agreement with that comment.

What I am saying is that all if you senior members who are so experienced and have such vast knowledge actually publish it in a more open manner, the clueless tourists as you guys call them might benefit from that insight and visit other clubs. I see that you said in the Sharks thread that it is not your favorite club at all and yet you have more posts in Sharks than say, Finca (I could be wrong in this). I am a newbie writer and haven't the talent to write super reports as you do. I will strive to do it, even if it can't match the quality of senior writers.

But to your last paragraph, I am in total agreement. I am not as experienced as you are I am sure, but I have visited a few clubs in my life and enjoyed all of them in their own way. I am recently enjoying the megaclubs more than the smaller ones due to my requirement of volume consumption but I am also not going to go around and bash the smaller clubs in those threads, nor will I be bashing the attendees of those clubs whoever they may be because I am also an attendee of the smaller clubs as well occasionally.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2333048]The reference to mongers with a lot of miles on their bodies, and the connection to recent reports on Finca would appear to relate to me :)

Regardless of who you are referring to, you are assuming that you know the motivations and private actions of people you do not know personally, even if you have gathered information about them. I suggest it is a good idea for all of us to refrain from attributing motives and hidden actions to other members. What we claim about other members is more likely to reveal more about our own view of the world.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Optimist;2333042]Sirioja. You mention Magdalena. I think she is a case of YMMV. I had several discussions with her before going to a room, and she delivered on all the promises. Absolutely not suck and fuck only. On that occasion at least. She was very sweet with me[/QUOTE]Even I would run to her look in any club, but with her breathe, I can't have pleasure with her and also not into foreplay, so even she smiled to me on next day, but 50 wasted for me and I hate that. I prefer to spend 500 for a top girl at Globe. Just my subjective experience of course, like always, and I m very different. Only positive was no upselling, even coming from Mainhattan.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2332927]Oase and Sharks are fine clubs which fit the need for the most number of mongers but perhaps some mongers with a lot of miles on their bodies have specialized needs and can't have fun there.
[/QUOTE]It depends. If you're only into optics and don't care if the girl acts as a starfish or of you're ready to pay twice the price, it can be very good. If you're more into service and don't want to pay more than the normal price, I don't think that's the best place for you.

[QUOTE] sharing openly will grab the attention of all readers, and traffic (both on ISG and attendance at the club) will be redirected to those clubs.
[/QUOTE]I'm not sure it's a good idea since some of the posters / readers here are overpayers or are constantly bragging that they're so full of money that they can do 3 hours rooms as much as they want. I don't want to take the upsell epidemy out of Frankfurt. Don't forget the few morons who like to talk shit to the girls about other posters.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2333048]

I am continually amazed :confused: at the ongoing battle between avid supporters of the mega clubs and any criticism of them. [/QUOTE]I'm equally amazed that Optimist and Pessimist have different opinions.

I mostly visit Oase of the mega clubs as the others never really done anything for me (Artemis used to) but to each their own. Agree it's too bad when people get too invested in the clubs.

If there's anything visiting the clubs taught me is what I really like and where it deviates from what others like. Hence, different clubs for different people and it doesn't mean one is objectively better than the other.

I have been to Globe BTW and the girls were beautiful and so on but surprisingly the actual club felt a bit rundown. I know that people say they don't care and only visit clubs for girls but I still wonder if others agree.

Bfsie,

I visit both small NRW clubs and Frankfurt mega clubs and I find value in both scenes. When a poster advises you that you are "not missing" anything at the megaclubs is a bit wishful thinking. I do agree that one can find equally beautiful girls in NRW, but feel that I have had sessions with every single girl on my "wish list" within that region. I generally go to each club in NRW already knowing which girls with whom I will session. Occasionally, I will find a new girl that wows me. In Frankfurt, there are still girls who look great that I have yet to take to a room. I seem to always see a new face that perks my interest.

Secondly, while the service in NRW is on average better, it is hardly a guarantee. Look at Oceans, Samya, Magnum, Dolce Vita, Mondial, PHG, and even Acapulco. Amazing sex is hardly guaranteed at those clubs. I believe you were the one who mentioned that Turkish clientele oriented clubs generally do not provide as reliable service as the German oriented ones and I think you hit the nail on the head. And well, there are many more clubs in NRW that are geared towards Turkish clients. I dare say that Turkish service is just as bad as tourist service.

Anyway, Frankfurt clubs are absolutely worth a visit as you just have so many more girls and more fresh girls under one roof.

Is it just me, or is the 18-21 year old, as in the youngest new recruits in the past 2 years, more greedy than just 3 years ago? Thinking especially about Sharks and Oase now.

Pessimist's post offers some perspective. Financial priorities matter: [URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?3172-FKK-Mainhattan-Frankfurt&p=2325359&viewfull=1#post2325359[/URL].

Income is only one variable. All things being equal, a single, childless bachelors who are approaching retirement can spend more money on luxuries such as mongering. Stage of life also matters too (I. E. Whether one will soon receive an inheritance from parents). I recently heard of one monger in his 50's who is dumping large sums into the coffers of his FKK wife. This monger in his 50's reportedly told his friends "I can sell my flat, because I do not have any kids to hand it down to. And I can't take that money with me". The implication is that he could blow through his money and live life to the fullest.

More important is the fact that each person values things differently. Just because a person has expensive tastes when it comes to cars, does not necessarily mean he has expensive tastes when it comes to WGs. ISGers are hardcore mongers. We only make up 10-15 percent of the FKK population. How much we are prepared to spend for a session with that superstar WG is not reflective of how much casual mongers are prepared to spend on her. I will make an analogy here to customers in the restaurant industry. Majority of diners do not write food reviews on Yelp, Google or Facebook, except the 5 percent who are obsessed with food! When you are obsessed with food, you tend to allocate more of your financial resources to food. For instance, due to the influence of social media, food has become somewhat of a status symbol for millennial. [URL=https://www.bustle.com/p/what-14-millennial-women-spend-on-food-every-month-40431]A single female, 33-year old millennial foodie can spend 30-60 percent of her paycheck on food.[/URL] So if she is making $50 K per year, she may be conceivably spending $30 K per year on food. Most American fly-in mongers make significantly more than $50 K, but as KK noted, many are quite happy eating cold packaged meats from Rewe. Again, priorities.

Lastly, many Americans here are not familiar with compensation packages in Europe. In America, a company car is not a common perk. But in Europe it is fairly standard. This article provides a scenario of an [URL=https://medium.com/@tobias.ulrich/company-cars-in-germany-pro-and-cons-of-living-in-the-car-country-21d87caf9d62]employee who makes 5000 EUR (before taxes) who is issued a company car worth 50000 EUR[/URL]. In Belgium, company cars are issued to even the most junior employees. [URL=https://www.thebulletin.be/half-grads-offered-company-car-first-job]an estimated 50% of university graduates are offered a company car at their first job[/URL].

Here is what I think should be expected as the bare minimum when I go to these clubs from the girls in the room.

1. Forplay Kissing, light touching of all parts of the girl, caressing, handjob.

2. Blow Job without condom.

3. Sex in multiple positions.

4. Cum in condom.

5. The girl at least pretending like she is into it and cares about my pleasure.

Am I being Greedy for having this standard? Or have things changed?

In the good clubs (Goldentime, Living Room, (Sharks 40 percent of the time, most AO clubs) You can get service like this without having to ask, it just happens and there is no extra charge.

In some of the other clubs (Oase, Mainhatten, Oceans, etc) It is not and you need to ask. Is like any kind of foreplay is up-sell. Then when you tell the girls this and you agree to give them extra money they don't do it or do other things in the room half halfheartedly.

[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2333090]It depends. If you're only into optics and don't care if the girl acts as a starfish or of you're ready to pay twice the price, it can be very good. If you're more into service and don't want to pay more than the normal price, I don't think that's the best place for you.

I'm not sure it's a good idea since some of the posters / readers here are overpayers or are constantly bragging that they're so full of money that they can do 3 hours rooms as much as they want. I don't want to take the upsell epidemy out of Frankfurt. Don't forget the few morons who like to talk shit to the girls about other posters.[/QUOTE]Well, it is totally understandable you do not like Hessen megaclubs and also do not want to share info about your best clubs and best girls for fear of spoiling a good thing. What a man wants to share or not is his own prerogative. All the senior members who write anything at all here are owed a huge thanks — for a long time I was just a lurker without writing anything and I still haven't written any reviews as the other gentleman just pointed out.

However, what I do not get is what purpose is then served by bashing megaclubs and bashing "the newbies and clueless foreign sex tourists" that attend these big Hessen clubs. I mean, if you say "XX is a bad place, do not go there" isn't it better to also add "but go to YY because it is good for these reasons"? Simply saying "XX is bad place and all people that attend XX are clueless" does not serve any significantly productive utility, in my view.

I'm not sure I agree with the last sentence. Some guy is probably talking shit to some girl in some place, that kinda thing is always happening and no one can ever stop it. That however is not a reason enough to stop sharing in open forums. Info can always be shared without giving too many specifics and particulars, IMHO.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2333154]Is it just me, or is the 18-21 year old, as in the youngest new recruits in the past 2 years, more greedy than just 3 years ago? Thinking especially about Sharks and Oase now.[/QUOTE]I don't think they are any more greedy. But that's just me being technical and semantics focused. They were always greedy in my opinion, but in the past they balanced their greed with a better sense of prevailing reality in those days.

I agree with the gist of your proposition. The new recruits are openly demanding extras for standard stuff and withholding 30 M sessions for 50 E more brazenly and openly, and in general trying to make a faster buck and believing that they can easily make 15 to 20 grand per month very easily. I have also seen this attitude. I blame this partly on the change in the law, partly on the higher mix of tourists (agreeing with Big Buddy on this one), more than partly on the tutorials they are probably receiving from their older sisters in the clubs.

What I mean is that the new recruits of a few years ago were mentored by their senior WGs who probably joined the business nine to ten years ago. So, they received some good lessons. As time went on, they probably became a bit greedy but their own behavior was still shaped by the early club lesions. But these new recruits of today are mentored by girls who joined 4,5 years ago and there is not any good service manners being drilled into them.

That's my guess.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2332282]Yes, I also think that having gym near by helps considering hard working hours / type of job of FKK girls. In case of Artemis, it is in house gym down stairs and I even saw security guy doing personal training to some girls.

LR also has gym near by, I see one on the way to LR like few minutes walk.[/QUOTE]Mr Ho Mr Ho, my theory is many FKK girls have their nice body primarily due to win genetic lottery and youth of being in early 20's. Many work long hour with only maybe 4-5 hour sleep, exposure to loud music, bad diet and smoking all day which suppress appetite and eat less. I believe most are too tired for gym when not on holiday. Their nice figure was not created from go to gym for most these girls, they are just born with it.

I have been to artemis, babylon (hamburg), LR, GT, Samya, Yin Yang and Oceans and I think the few top optics were at GT. I'm trying to fulfill a fantasy of mine and trying to find a blonde like Daniela Rosch (german BTW and gorgeous) [URL]https://www.erosberry.com/daniela-rosch-alias-corina[/URL] Do you guys know of any girls that resemble her or which clubs have girls w / her body type and natural. Thanks.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2333199]I don't think they are any more greedy. But that's just me being technical and semantics focused. They were always greedy in my opinion, but in the past they balanced their greed with a better sense of prevailing reality in those days.

I agree with the gist of your proposition. The new recruits are openly demanding extras for standard stuff and withholding 30 M sessions for 50 E more brazenly and openly, and in general trying to make a faster buck and believing that they can easily make 15 to 20 grand per month very easily. I have also seen this attitude. I blame this partly on the change in the law, partly on the higher mix of tourists (agreeing with Big Buddy on this one), more than partly on the tutorials they are probably receiving from their older sisters in the clubs.

What I mean is that the new recruits of a few years ago were mentored by their senior WGs who probably joined the business nine to ten years ago. So, they received some good lessons. As time went on, they probably became a bit greedy but their own behavior was still shaped by the early club lesions. But these new recruits of today are mentored by girls who joined 4,5 years ago and there is not any good service manners being drilled into them.

That's my guess.[/QUOTE]Are these new poor service upselling recruits in last 2 years actually making more money per month compared to the new good service no-upselling recruits before that? I remember Aylice at Sharks or Elizabeth CZ at Oase in 2015-2016 used to easily make 1000-1500 e per day, 15000 - 20000 e per month by doing 50 e 30 min sessions or multiple units of that with giving really good service and zero upselling. How many of these poor service upselling new recruits in last 2 years make that kind of money in Oase or Sharks nowadays? I don't know any, do anybody here know? If they are not making similar to Elizabeth CZ or Aylice, maybe they can learn from the history? Maybe we mongers can help today's new recruits by coaching them about how to maximize net income by balancing good products and solid services with attractive pricing, commitment to quality, volume and discounts, value of repeat business etc, when we get any chance to talk with them?

Pessimist. Thank you for your thoughtful response. You have taken the trouble to count my posts in Finca and in Sharks, and note that although Sharks is not my favourite club, I have more posts there. No need to see that as a contradiction. I have been to Sharks many more times (although not much recently) so, as I believe in reporting when possible, I have more posts in the Sharks threads.

I certainly do not want to bash the megaclubs. I love Oase for the wow factor. My only point is that if a member here does not like the overcharging (my phrase) not only are there girls who do not (as Turgid just reports) but there are other clubs where overcharging is almost unknown, and where optics are still good. Up to each member to go with what works for him.

You make a very good point about the way the culture in clubs changes over time

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2333195]However, what I do not get is what purpose is then served by bashing megaclubs and bashing "the newbies and clueless foreign sex tourists" that attend these big Hessen clubs. I mean, if you say "XX is a bad place, do not go there" isn't it better to also add "but go to YY because it is good for these reasons"? Simply saying "XX is bad place and all people that attend XX are clueless" does not serve any significantly productive utility, in my view.[/QUOTE]Actually I think I reported more than enough. I also gave frequent advises for where to get a good service for the normal price and I still do. But when I read serial-tippers who go to 40 euros clubs and tip every time 10 euros, I'm not sure that they got the message loud and clear.

[QUOTE=Theo110;2333190]Here is what I think should be expected as the bare minimum when I go to these clubs from the girls in the room.

1. Forplay Kissing, light touching of all parts of the girl, caressing, handjob.

2. Blow Job without condom.

3. Sex in multiple positions.

4. Cum in condom.

5. The girl at least pretending like she is into it and cares about my pleasure.

Am I being Greedy for having this standard? Or have things changed[/QUOTE]You're not greedy you're honest and reasonably demanding. Go to LR, 6 sens, Finca, you'll find girls for your tastes. Around Frankfurt Bahamas and Dietz may be your better choices. The 40 euros clubs around Dusseldorf (Aca gold and H7) could suit you but you have to interview the girls a little bit more.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2333322]Pessimist. Thank you for your thoughtful response. You have taken the trouble to count my posts in Finca and in Sharks, and note that although Sharks is not my favourite club, I have more posts there. No need to see that as a contradiction. I have been to Sharks many more times (although not much recently) so, as I believe in reporting when possible, I have more posts in the Sharks threads.

I certainly do not want to bash the megaclubs. I love Oase for the wow factor. My only point is that if a member here does not like the overcharging (my phrase) not only are there girls who do not (as Turgid just reports) but there are other clubs where overcharging is almost unknown, and where optics are still good. Up to each member to go with what works for him.

You make a very good point about the way the culture in clubs changes over time[/QUOTE]Thank you. It was no trouble at all since the search function on this site is quite efficient. It takes no more than a couple of seconds to obtain these stats, although the search history is cut off at a couple of years and hence I was not sure if your actual posting history differs materially from the search result.

And I agree that there is no contradiction. I have no interest in AO but might post in those threads if a topic or post piques my interest. The original post was made in response to Big Buddy's hypothesis that Sharks and Oase have the largest number of posts and ipso facto those clubs must be overrun with newbies and tourists. I was immediately stuck with the idea that a large number of posts is not necessarily a bad thing at all, but also that a majority of those posts in even the megaclubs threads must be from frequently posting senior members. I did that search query on a few senior members to satisfy myself whether I was right, and you just happened to post your reply at that same time so I just gave your own Finca v Sharks posting count as an example. My broader point is that even in Sharks and Oase threads it is the regular members posting the most and while that is out of the well intentioned concern that Newbie writers like myself are getting trapped in mediocre clubs, it would also help if they posted even more reports in their favorite smaller club threads showcasing their favorite best girls.

In the end, a lot of guys can figure for themselves that a specific girl or club is not particularly good. It may take one session, one trip or perhaps two. What most of us need help with is knowing which are the good replacements.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2333292]Are these new poor service upselling recruits in last 2 years actually making more money per month compared to the new good service no-upselling recruits before that? I remember Aylice at Sharks or Elizabeth CZ at Oase in 2015-2016 used to easily make 1000-1500 e per day, 15000 - 20000 e per month by doing 50 e 30 min sessions or multiple units of that with giving really good service and zero upselling. How many of these poor service upselling new recruits in last 2 years make that kind of money in Oase or Sharks nowadays? I don't know any, do anybody here know? If they are not making similar to Elizabeth CZ or Aylice, maybe they can learn from the history? Maybe we mongers can help today's new recruits by coaching them about how to maximize net income by balancing good products and solid services with attractive pricing, commitment to quality, volume and discounts, value of repeat business etc, when we get any chance to talk with them?[/QUOTE]You make good points. I doubt that many girls are at the level of Sharks' Aylice or Oase'Elizabeth CZ in terms of service levels. Those two were such nice sweethearts for me and probably many guys.

Aylice didn't even have many mentors either, and was good friends with Manuela and a couple of girls as I recall.

But today's new girls are probably acting on mistaken advice, own internal expectations, and bad early habits. They may be thinking that acting in the manner they are doing is a good way of maximizing their monthly take and when that is not happening, I am not sure they are doing a proper introspection and correcting their behavior. Such honest and critical introspection is a hard thing to do for even well educated, mature adults. I suspect not many of these girls are at that level. So, they are more likely to blame some other external factor, perhaps change a club or whatnot but not truly change their own behavior and service level.

I also don't think us mongers can truly coach them to make changes. First, the girls under discussion IE bad service inflated expectation girls are not sitting down with experienced mongers for any length of time, as they think it is a waste of their time and money and are more likely to yap away with fellow WG friends. They don't view the monger as a potential mentor in any sense. They view us as a John with Euro notes attached to cock. At the same time, few mongers are likely to take the time and patiently pursue a single girl to drill into her head what's good for her business. Our interest is to obtain a good session, keep the session pleasant enough such that she is inclined to provide a good session in future if we picked that girl again and have an equally good session with another pretty girl as soon as we leave the room. I have heard of very few girls who changed their set ways in any meaningful manner because a monger advised and influenced her.

On the first week of July I will be in Dusseldorf for a short business trip of three days.

As my last visit to an FKK in NRW was in 2012 at Dolce Vita, I kindly ask some info about the DV, LR and Aca Gold. I would have the chance to visit these clubs in the evening, after 9 pm, I do not have problems of transportation, as I will rent a car.

What is the actual average rate for the std 30 minutes and for 60 minutes in these clubs?

I saw that with the new law, BBBJ is not a std anymore. In January, at Babylon Hamburg I had to pay 10 euros more for it. Is it same now in NRW?

Thanks in advance for your answers and suggestions!

[QUOTE=Massimoweb;2333496]On the first week of July I will be in Dusseldorf for a short business trip of three days.

As my last visit to an FKK in NRW was in 2012 at Dolce Vita, I kindly ask some info about the DV, LR and Aca Gold. I would have the chance to visit these clubs in the evening, after 9 pm, I do not have problems of transportation, as I will rent a car.

What is the actual average rate for the std 30 minutes and for 60 minutes in these clubs?

I saw that with the new law, BBBJ is not a std anymore. In January, at Babylon Hamburg I had to pay 10 euros more for it. Is it same now in NRW?

Thanks in advance for your answers and suggestions![/QUOTE]Good BJ stay quite standard in NRW and Hessen, some girls interested by extra for CIM. Usual clubs rate is 40 or 50/30 mn in NRW which is not Hamburg.

Aca Gold: 40 € / 30 min. LR: 50 € / 30 min. DV: I don't know.

No overcharge for BBBJ or DFK in the two clubs above. If a girl tells you there is one, use the magical word: "no". Or else you'll pay the tourist rate. Make up an excuse like "my good Belgian friend comes often here and he told me there is no upsell in this club" or something like that. And please don't tip or commit to a one hour session before the start.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2333292]Are these new poor service upselling recruits in last 2 years actually making more money per month compared to the new good service no-upselling recruits before that? I remember Aylice at Sharks or Elizabeth CZ at Oase in 2015-2016 used to easily make 1000-1500 e per day, 15000 - 20000 e per month by doing 50 e 30 min sessions or multiple units of that with giving really good service and zero upselling. How many of these poor service upselling new recruits in last 2 years make that kind of money in Oase or Sharks nowadays? I don't know any, do anybody here know? If they are not making similar to Elizabeth CZ or Aylice, maybe they can learn from the history? Maybe we mongers can help today's new recruits by coaching them about how to maximize net income by balancing good products and solid services with attractive pricing, commitment to quality, volume and discounts, value of repeat business etc, when we get any chance to talk with them?[/QUOTE]Yes, little Bulgarian Aylice at Sharks, was high level in bed, but not a top beauty, and even she was so lovely with a beautiful smile, I was not anymore attracted when she became silicon. When I think you could get what you look for with her, but I had higher level girls at Sharks like now Kate Globe for Sharks rate, and Megan was higher level for me, I don't mean about extreme performances, but more than 30 rooms with Megan only at Sharks, versus less than 10 rooms with Aylice.

About Elisabet. Cz at Oase, also really lovely, but nothing exceptional for me in bed, only technique but no sensuality, had also higher level girls for me at Oase, like Tatiana. Ru or my April girls.

After my last real life girlfriend, when I found some Russian escorts met in Paris were not pretty enough and was criticized when I wrote this on another forum before this one, it was really difficult for me to find pretty girls when I started in FKK land on end of 2012, looking for Siberian types, I often left most famous clubs like GT, Sharks, Oase with full, heavy balls, taking appointment with one of my regular escort when driving back to Paris, for a Russian night, but I succeeded to find few beauties, I learned to love Romanian beauties and understood the most difficult for me is to find pretty girls, so when I succeed, even when they are not performers, I prefer to work to make a beauty improving for me. At LR, I chose one for her look and charm, even first room was really average with her small pussy. At the end of our discovery, I didn't think to repeat, but nothing better on end of 2016 at LR, so I looked again at her look and I returned to her few hours later, I was her first to repeat on same day with her, I met her weekly when she worked, she followed me in bed and became my best ever girl in whole FKK land, even including Globe superstars, not for her performances in bed, but for complicity and trusting for sex, with so erotic games. I loved when I put her sticky, white liquid on my fingers to make her taste, but she turned head, so I put in my mouth and kissed her to put in her mouth, and some other sexual games, and I also understood when you make your girls feel woman, making them cum, some will ask you for again, and most will treat you in different way than others, you are not anymore only for money, but then they think, when they are most often just a piece of meat to fuck, you are in love, and some will become jealous, asking you not to go with other girls, or very angry when you stop, but I always stop when I think their behavior don't deserve anymore my money I work to make, and I only returned to this one, because she had exceptional behavior to welcome me when we met again on beginning of September 2017, and immediately on this day, she adapted her schedule like before. On the week end I stopped, she was booked all week end, but delayed her appointment to be free for me, but I couldn't anymore, I was too bored, but I know how she really tried to keep me, when I was not her biggest money, and I m sure she is not so angry about her other lost clients. Also interesting at the moment, when we don't have room together, but relation going on with another very regular, saying I'm so kind with her, when no money between us. But I m not interested to meet for shopping, or holidays. I have my own plans for my busy holidays.

[QUOTE=Massimoweb;2333496]
What is the actual average rate for the std 30 minutes and for 60 minutes in these clubs?

I saw that with the new law, BBBJ is not a std anymore. In January, at Babylon Hamburg I had to pay 10 euros more for it. Is it same now in NRW?
[/QUOTE]50EUR for 30 minutes, 100EUR for 60 minutes, and don't agree to BBBJ for extra, the girls are taking advantage of the law change to try to get more money out of you.

[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2333359]You're not greedy you're honest and reasonably demanding. Go to LR, 6 sens, Finca, you'll find girls for your tastes. Around Frankfurt Bahamas and Dietz may be your better choices. The 40 euros clubs around Dusseldorf (Aca gold and H7) could suit you but you have to interview the girls a little bit more.[/QUOTE]Dietzenbach only worth, like Villa Venus or Arabella, if you want AO sex, but certainly not for high level of sex, when no beauty, no sensuality. Some new LR girls don't kiss, among some of the prettiest like Reina or Georgi. Few try to upsell at Finca like one of the prettiest, Deniz, when I had high level girls at Sharks for club rate, a really top class on June 2018 , and Oase was really high level, higher level than my LR 2019 girls and prettier, and even higher level than most of my last GT girls, on last months, with my only 2019 wow girl, at Oase. But we don't all have same tastes for looks and level in bed.

[QUOTE=Downandup;2333558]50EUR for 30 minutes, 100EUR for 60 minutes, and don't agree to BBBJ for extra, the girls are taking advantage of the law change to try to get more money out of you.[/QUOTE]I second what DownandUp and BB69 say.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2333456] I doubt that many girls are at the level of Sharks' Aylice ...in terms of service levels...
Aylice didn't even have many mentors either.[/QUOTE]Aylice was a magnificent performer and also very beautiful with charisma. Her BBBJ skills were legendary and she was a sweetheart too. I think she stopped working before the new anti-BBBJ laws came in. At least I haven't seen her since.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2333456]You make good points. I doubt that many girls are at the level of Sharks' Aylice or Oase'Elizabeth CZ in terms of service levels. Those two were such nice sweethearts for me and probably many guys.

Aylice didn't even have many mentors either, and was good friends with Manuela and a couple of girls as I recall.

But today's new girls are probably acting on mistaken advice, own internal expectations, and bad early habits. They may be thinking that acting in the manner they are doing is a good way of maximizing their monthly take and when that is not happening, I am not sure they are doing a proper introspection and correcting their behavior. Such honest and critical introspection is a hard thing to do for even well educated, mature adults. I suspect not many of these girls are at that level. So, they are more likely to blame some other external factor, perhaps change a club or whatnot but not truly change their own behavior and service level.

I also don't think us mongers can truly coach them to make changes. First, the girls under discussion IE bad service inflated expectation girls are not sitting down with experienced mongers for any length of time, as they think it is a waste of their time and money and are more likely to yap away with fellow WG friends. They don't view the monger as a potential mentor in any sense. They view us as a John with Euro notes attached to cock. At the same time, few mongers are likely to take the time and patiently pursue a single girl to drill into her head what's good for her business. Our interest is to obtain a good session, keep the session pleasant enough such that she is inclined to provide a good session in future if we picked that girl again and have an equally good session with another pretty girl as soon as we leave the room. I have heard of very few girls who changed their set ways in any meaningful manner because a monger advised and influenced her.[/QUOTE]Pessimist, thanks for appreciating my points.

Yeah most of these new girls won't take any advice from mongers about how to make more money in this business, but given how much time they now spend on Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok, Boomerang etc when back in their sleeping beds and on their off days, don't you think that even if only 1 or 2 of the 200+ girls on the Sharks roasters try the advice and succeed making more net money at the end of the day / month, this success story can get viral thru the social media and many more girls will follow the path of success? Obviously some girls will also notice the successful girls in the club itself and try to understand or mimic the steps, but it can be a hit or miss to notice 1 or 2 successes out of 100+ girls and few hundred guys at any given day in Sharks. Same goes for the other upselling clubs like Oase, Mainhattan, Palace etc; in fact social media has a much better chance of making this success story viral across clubs. In the end, everyone wins - WGs, mongers, clubs - all.

FYI, this is the same "viral by social media" strategy that most businesses and think tanks are using these days to influence effectiveness of marketing, ideas etc - I'm sure you already thought of it by now.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2333622]Pessimist, thanks for appreciating my points.

Yeah most of these new girls won't take any advice from mongers about how to make more money in this business, but given how much time they now spends on Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok, Boomerang etc when back in their sleeping beds and on their off days, don't you think that even if only 1 or 2 of the 200+ girls on the Sharks roasters try the advice and succeed making more net money at the end of the day / month, this success story can get viral thru the social media and many more girls will follow the path of success? Obviously some girls will also notice the successful girls in the club itself and try to understand or mimic the steps, but it can be a hit or miss to notice 1 or 2 successes out of 100+ girls and few hundred guys at any given day in Sharks. Same goes for the other upselling clubs like Oase, Mainhattan, Palace etc; in fact social media has a much better chance of making this success story viral across clubs. In the end, everyone wins - WGs, mongers, clubs - all.

FYI, this is the same "viral by social media" strategy that most businesses and think tanks are using these days to influence effectiveness of marketing, ideas etc - you probably already guessed it.[/QUOTE]I agree that not all girls are not uncoachable. Some girls are certainly likely to take a pragmatic, business minded approach to their careers, analyze what's working well and not, look at other successful girls and what is the factor helping those girls and try to copy them. Copying may be the greatest form of flattery but that's also how all of us human beings improve — from the time as babies imitating grownups how to talk, walk, eat and potty. The sensible girls in the clubs should be copying the habits of the more successful girls as you rightly said.

Some or perhaps many girls read ISG as well, from what I have observed and from what members wrote here. So, some of them know what men are thinking of them. This is also a form of feedback — the sensible girls do not take offense and try to learn from it — or they should anyway. The narrow minded girls try to track down who wrote what and blacklist their existing clients. Talk about stupidity — if you are a business owner that received negative feedback from an existing customer in an anonymous survey, would you track that customer down and refuse to accept his business? For any business that wants to survive and thrive such an act would be considered colossal idiocy. But that's precisely the behavior exhibited by many FKK girls.

There is also the question of how many of us would go to the trouble of reforming and helping a girl with bad habits. Remember, we are talking here about girls with bad service levels, bad attitude, prone to upselling, etc. The good girls are already good, there is no reason to reform them or help them in any way. It is the bad ones needing help, in order to make a whole club better. But most of us are likely to avoid the bad ones, try to get a time slot with the good ones, perhaps write a good review about the better service girls and recommend her to a friend, and perhaps even pan the bad service girl in a ISG review. The hope is that the bad service girl has to possess some amount of self realization, recognize the facts in a bad review and also recognize why another girl is getting a good review + more business and change herself.

Unfortunately, many of these girls took the exact wrong lesson to heart, came to the faulty conclusion that the best way to increase their business is to target mild mannered people, foreign tourists, dare I say even Asians, and otherwise scam unsuspecting mongers.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2333626]I agree that not all girls are not uncoachable. Some girls are certainly likely to take a pragmatic, business minded approach to their careers, analyze what's working well and not, look at other successful girls and what is the factor helping those girls and try to copy them. Copying may be the greatest form of flattery but that's also how all of us human beings improve from the time as babies imitating grownups how to talk, walk, eat and potty. The sensible girls in the clubs should be copying the habits of the more successful girls as you rightly said.

Some or perhaps many girls read ISG as well, from what I have observed and from what members wrote here. So, some of them know what men are thinking of them. This is also a form of feedback the sensible girls do not take offense and try to learn from it or they should anyway. The narrow minded girls try to track down who wrote what and blacklist their existing clients. Talk about stupidity if you are a business owner that received negative feedback from an existing customer in an anonymous survey, would you track that customer down and refuse to accept his business? For any business that wants to survive and thrive such an act would be considered colossal idiocy..[/QUOTE]The girls that work at an FKK are usually not the most educated girls. The FKK provides a safe environment. Which attracts the girls. Usually, girls are controlled by pimps that tell them what to do. Most think pretty short term and want fast money. When you were that age, did you really think about long term prospects? That is why you see the more educated and older girls in the high end escort business. These girls know that their looks alone will not get them far. They understand the art of seduction and many have mad skills (I. E. Globe). They understand that proper grooming, being able to speak well, being adaptable to a variety of situations, and older professional men is where the money is. They are not looking at 100 E / hour, but 1-2 K over a day or two with possible foreign trips and shopping excursions. Sex is just one part of the equation. They know wealthy men want to be pampered. They must be available at a moments notice. And they can't look like a WG. By the time a girl is close to 30, she knows this or is struggling to earn a living. Ever wonder why a 30 year old escort can command 400-500 an hour and a 21 year old cannot? The experienced girl knows it is not about the orgams. She knows she can make a guy want to have sex and keep him interested until he is exhausted and satisfied. This does not have to mean doing the nasty stuff. She knows she can give him what no other girl can. That is why he pays and keeps coming back. There is nothing that keeps a girl from learning this except her ego and inexperience.

[QUOTE=Sebastiane;2333577]Aylice was a magnificent performer and also very beautiful with charisma. Her BBBJ skills were legendary and she was a sweetheart too. I think she stopped working before the new anti-BBBJ laws came in. At least I haven't seen her since.[/QUOTE]Are we all speaking about small Bulgarian brunette Aylice who became silicon? Who was really high level in bed, or maybe about blond, Marilyn look, model type, Hellis? But average face.

Yes, some WGs, at Sharks, at LR, at Oase, read this forum.

Yes, some guys tell to girls what we are writing, some even pay for time in room spent to bullshit about other guys, and how could I know if I was not told by my girls.

From my experiences, high level, smart girls don't speak about money, they prefer to make regular clients who return often, sometimes weekly, driving so many kilometers for me. Usually, upselling girls won t be the highest level. For example, at Sharks you have Mandy, busy for club rate, and some who try to upsell, but sitting waiting. Girls are often on their clients level, look at their clients and You know a bit about the girl, but with few you can sometimes make them go on your level.

Have to play and make the job to get what we want.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2333626]I agree that not all girls are not uncoachable. Some girls are certainly likely to take a pragmatic, business minded approach to their careers, analyze what's working well and not, look at other successful girls and what is the factor helping those girls and try to copy them. Copying may be the greatest form of flattery but that's also how all of us human beings improve from the time as babies imitating grownups how to talk, walk, eat and potty. The sensible girls in the clubs should be copying the habits of the more successful girls as you rightly said.

Some or perhaps many girls read ISG as well, from what I have observed and from what members wrote here. So, some of them know what men are thinking of them. This is also a form of feedback the sensible girls do not take offense and try to learn from it or they should anyway. The narrow minded girls try to track down who wrote what and blacklist their existing clients. Talk about stupidity if you are a business owner that received negative feedback from an existing customer in an anonymous survey, would you track that customer down and refuse to accept his business? For any business that wants to survive and thrive such an act would be considered colossal idiocy. But that's precisely the behavior exhibited by many FKK girls.[/QUOTE]What a theoretical approach, I spent many months in several cities in Romania with Romanian girls working in FKK and I really don t believe that any girl in a club have this kind of approach, they just try to earn as much as possible by providing the less service possible. Be a prostitute is not a business, is also not without health issues for most of the girls, 90% of the girls have pimp or a BF or are married.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2333626]I agree that not all girls are not uncoachable. Some girls are certainly likely to take a pragmatic, business minded approach to their careers, analyze what's working well and not, look at other successful girls and what is the factor helping those girls and try to copy them.

Unfortunately, many of these girls took the exact wrong lesson to heart, came to the faulty conclusion that the best way to increase their business is to target mild mannered people, foreign tourists, dare I say even Asians, and otherwise scam unsuspecting mongers.[/QUOTE]I have enjoyed this conversation and the thoughtful replies. As to the topic of service: I am reminded of comments that people make about NYC service in any clubs or stores. It was perfunctory even abrupt and cold. People would say in a city that large there is almost always another customer right behind you! So don't expect the majority of stores to care! As you and several others pointed out, how many people in FKK clubs are tourists, newbies or just so desperate after leaving their own home that any service is fine as long as they get laid. Most never post and I suspect many don't read this forum or any other except to look at prices. If you come from London a 20 Euro upsell compared to your wife saying "I'll Give you a BJ when he'll freezes over" is pretty darn good.

Most people don't post and the girls probably don't care. If 2 or 3 girls are successful and the rest are all upsellers my first thought would be why would 90%change to match 10%. Honestly if I were in a club and two girls were really busy I'the suspect they were offering something I'the rather not ask do. Just a different view of the Rorschach inkblot from my perspective AND as many of you pointed out. As long as they keep coming through the front door- why change.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2333626]I agree that not all girls are not uncoachable. Some girls are certainly likely to take a pragmatic, business minded approach to their careers, analyze what's working well and not, look at other successful girls and what is the factor helping those girls and try to copy them.

Unfortunately, many of these girls took the exact wrong lesson to heart, came to the faulty conclusion that the best way to increase their business is to target mild mannered people, foreign tourists, dare I say even Asians, and otherwise scam unsuspecting mongers.[/QUOTE]I appreciate the conversation here! I am reminded of the comments people made when they used to visit me in NYC and would ask "How can the shopkeepers keep customers with that attitude. Really abrupt and almost rude". And I would think, well with so many people walking through the door each day? It's whatever it takes to keep the door open and not too much more. Nothing personal! Life in the FKK seems to be like that. Lots of tourists, men who visit at best, 1 or 2 times a year or once in their life!!

Do the girls really care what the 1 or 2 girls do who are successful, maybe 5% of the ladies? Does that happen in many businesses? Sure some will follow but most come to work, do what they can to get through the day and leave. And if enough people come through the door who only care about that one visit, maybe even a couple visits a year, then the attitude prevails. When I see one or two girls extremely busy, I don't just think: I bet their service is incredible. Sometimes I think what extra things are they offering that the regulars all know? Consider the guy sitting in the FKK thinking: 20 or 50 for a BJ, versus going home to his wife who says: You want a BJ, when hell freezes over.

I admit it, I'm going for my first visit to an FKK, having traveled to other countries and indulged mostly in North America with its own messed up rules. And sadly, if a girl says to me 20 for kissing and she's cute enough, maybe I'll be stupid enough to pay, because when I'm in a club with naked women who may or may not be rubbing my dick, I'm not sure how in control of things I really am.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2333696]The girls that work at an FKK are usually not the most educated girls. The FKK provides a safe environment. Which attracts the girls. Usually, girls are controlled by pimps that tell them what to do. Most think pretty short term and want fast money. When you were that age, did you really think about long term prospects? That is why you see the more educated and older girls in the high end escort business. These girls know that their looks alone will not get them far. They understand the art of seduction and many have mad skills (I. E. Globe). They understand that proper grooming, being able to speak well, being adaptable to a variety of situations, and older professional men is where the money is. They are not looking at 100 E / hour, but 1-2 K over a day or two with possible foreign trips and shopping excursions. Sex is just one part of the equation. They know wealthy men want to be pampered. They must be available at a moments notice. And they can't look like a WG. By the time a girl is close to 30, she knows this or is struggling to earn a living. Ever wonder why a 30 year old escort can command 400-500 an hour and a 21 year old cannot? The experienced girl knows it is not about the orgams. She knows she can make a guy want to have sex and keep him interested until he is exhausted and satisfied. This does not have to mean doing the nasty stuff. She knows she can give him what no other girl can. That is why he pays and keeps coming back. There is nothing that keeps a girl from learning this except her ego and inexperience.[/QUOTE]Fantastic report and so true!! Men want women that know how to make them exhausted and satisfied and want to come back to enjoy those moments I think that what attracts more these women is their level and class, the way they speak and behave etc. In FKK almost all girls are un educated and you can see that from the way they behave.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2333748]For example, at Sharks you have Mandy, busy for club rate, and some who try to upsell, but sitting waiting. Girls are often on their clients level, look at their clients and You know a bit about the girl, but with few you can sometimes make them go on your level..[/QUOTE]Is Mandy still there?

Thank you Tintin.

And what a nice name! Tintin was one of my favorite comic characters when I was growing up. I wish I had thought of that handle first. Perhaps I will change my name to Captain Haddock or Colonel Sponz!

Agree with all you said. Not much to add when you said it so well.

"20 Euro upsell compared to your wife saying "I will give you a BJ when hell freezes over".

I was at work when I pulled this up on my phone and had to work hard to stop from ROTFL. Priceless!! Best quote of the year for me.

[QUOTE=Tintin1;2333850]I have enjoyed this conversation and the thoughtful replies. As to the topic of service: I am reminded of comments that people make about NYC service in any clubs or stores. It was perfunctory even abrupt and cold. People would say in a city that large there is almost always another customer right behind you! So don't expect the majority of stores to care! As you and several others pointed out, how many people in FKK clubs are tourists, newbies or just so desperate after leaving their own home that any service is fine as long as they get laid. Most never post and I suspect many don't read this forum or any other except to look at prices. If you come from London a 20 Euro upsell compared to your wife saying "I'll Give you a BJ when he'll freezes over" is pretty darn good.

Most people don't post and the girls probably don't care. If 2 or 3 girls are successful and the rest are all upsellers my first thought would be why would 90%change to match 10%. Honestly if I were in a club and two girls were really busy I'the suspect they were offering something I'the rather not ask do. Just a different view of the Rorschach inkblot from my perspective AND as many of you pointed out. As long as they keep coming through the front door- why change.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2333924]In FKK almost all girls are un educated and you can see that from the way they behave.[/QUOTE]Very nice and respectful, you should tell it to the girls next time you come. That's funny but most of the girls I meet in sauna clubs are smart, speak a lot of languages [blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue].

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2333748] smart girls don't speak about money, they prefer to make regular clients who return often, sometimes weekly, driving so many kilometers for me. Usually, upselling girls won t be the highest level.[/QUOTE]My opinion too. It takes some effort and patience to find these girls, but it is worth it. The girls who can turn an encounter into something much more than just fun. I have never met an upselling / over charging girl who was top level.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2333742]about blond, Marilyn look, model type, Hellis? But average face.[/QUOTE]The blonde Marilyn-Monroe model type. I liked her face too. She was an angel! And a sweetheart and fantastic in bed with no upsell when she went with me last time I saw her at Paradise.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2333988]My opinion too. It takes some effort and patience to find these girls, but it is worth it. The girls who can turn an encounter into something much more than just fun. I have never met an upselling / over charging girl who was top level.[/QUOTE]Sometimes, you need to be patient to make a elegant girl improving for your way for sex, but you don't build chic and charm, she has inside of her, or not, like she is pretty or not. Only a few are, but can sometimes be lucky, and then you are motivated to get what you like from her. Fortunately for me, I usually attract high level girls, and most of low level girls are afraid of me.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2333626]Some girls are certainly likely to take a pragmatic, business minded approach to their careers, analyze what's working well and not, look at other successful girls and what is the factor helping those girls and try to copy them. Copying may be the greatest form of flattery but that's also how all of us human beings improve from the time as babies imitating grownups how to talk, walk, eat and potty. The sensible girls in the clubs should be copying the habits of the more successful girls as you rightly said.[/QUOTE]The younger WGs at the tourist clubs often choose NOT to copy the most successful WGs. They often choose to model themselves after the sharkiest WGs. In fact, as WGs gain experience, their service and attitude generally starts to deteriorate, skewing more towards the sharkiest WGs then towards the most successful WGs. Those two facts alone should speak volumes.

I believe these sharky WGs have observed other WGs as well as learned their own experience. They know what their threshold is for tolerating customers. The annoying customers, the delusional customers, the suffocating and emotionally needy customers, the stalker customers.[/QUOTE]My final thought is that some of these WGs have already made more money than they ever dreamed possible. Once you have reached major financial milestones, money ceases to be the primary motivating factor. Plenty of mongers in their 40-50's, particularly the ones that are not married with kids, have admitted to me that they are no longer working long hours towards a promotion like they did in their younger years. Instead, they are looking to coast to the finish line. More work-life balance. More FKK trips. I suspect the WGs are the same. For instance, the WG's financial goal might be to just net 300 EUR per 12 hour shift. As long as they are making that, they are fine with more smoke breaks in the lounge. Less time dealing with customers. And less stress.

Yes. I do not disagree with what you said. Gino and I and Tintin were discussing a slightly different point, I. E. Whether it is possible for bad service girls to reform themselves and become aware that their attitude and lack of good service is impacting their business in the long term for them? And whether it is possible for mongers to guide these bad attitude / service girls in any way so that they can up their service. That is different from the point you are making which is that most of these girls come from poorly educated backgrounds and are at an immature age and are held back because of these disadvantages. While no doubt what you say is true, the fact remains that a few of those WGs who are also equally uneducated and suffer the same disadvantages have somehow sufficient business savvy and realize that good services and good attitude are actually good for them personally in the long term.

The question we were discussing was whether this good attitude / service comes to those girls inherently or is there something in the environment that made a few girls give good service while most give bad service. And whether this has degraded over time. Remember, the starting point of all this was a post from Pistons that new recruits of recent past are more money grubby with bad attitude than new recruits of 4 years ago. We were discussing how much of that was due to influence of other WGs and can we do something to counteract this?

Of course, the strong minded among us would say "just withhold paying any extras to the girls and do not give business to the bad service girls, and eventually they will be so devoid of any business and either have to change their ways or leave the business altogether". In effect, these guys have faith in the market and suggest that if only the mongers stayed united and stopped rewarding the bad service girls, the world would be alright.

I do not disagree with this view, but the flaw is that mongers are no more united than the girls. Invariably, the tourists, newbies, mongers flush with excess cash, and many others do not care about paying a few euros extra and break ranks. As in any market, it is the *marginal buyer and marginal seller* that sets the clearing price.

Some of the new WG recruits are probably getting the reverse advice from the jaded older girls "do not give kissing, BBBJ, etc etc unless the guy forks over 100 E for 30 M". Those jaded girls probably feel that if only all the girls were united then the mongers will give up, give in, and pay up wither exorbitant amounts they demand.

BTW, I have done escorts, porn stars, escorts who embed themselves in Tinder and other such sites, sugar babes and many other kinds. You are absolutely right. If looking for pure sex in a hassle free environment, the FKK price can't be beat if you are looking for young Caucasian girls.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2333696]The girls that work at an FKK are usually not the most educated girls. The FKK provides a safe environment. Which attracts the girls. Usually, girls are controlled by pimps that tell them what to do. Most think pretty short term and want fast money. When you were that age, did you really think about long term prospects? That is why you see the more educated and older girls in the high end escort business. These girls know that their looks alone will not get them far. They understand the art of seduction and many have mad skills (I. E. Globe). They understand that proper grooming, being able to speak well, being adaptable to a variety of situations, and older professional men is where the money is. They are not looking at 100 E / hour, but 1-2 K over a day or two with possible foreign trips and shopping excursions. Sex is just one part of the equation. They know wealthy men want to be pampered..[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2334072]The younger WGs at the tourist clubs often choose NOT to copy the most successful WGs. They often choose to model themselves after the sharkiest WGs. In fact, as WGs gain experience, their service and attitude generally starts to deteriorate, skewing more towards the sharkiest WGs then towards the most successful WGs. Those two facts alone should speak volumes.

I believe these sharky WGs have observed other WGs as well as learned their own experience. They know what their threshold is for tolerating customers. The annoying customers, the delusional customers, the suffocating and emotionally needy customers, the stalker customers..[/QUOTE]I often hear from girls I became regular with that: I want to reach 1000 euro today. So I guess 1000 Euro per shift is good income? So let be optimistic and they have 80 days like this per year, that is 80000 euro.

They work let say max another 200 days to be optimistic making 500 euro per shift, that is another 100000 euro.

So they can make about 150000 euro to 200000 euro if you are good FKK girl per year?

Then they get taxed on that one.

However, with simple mild observation above, they could make 1 million euro after working about 10 years in FKK, let say began at age 21 and finished by age 31 ish.

It is not bad amount for FKK girls living in eastern Europe or related emerging nations.

This is maybe too optimistic numbers though, because not all are top girls and also these girls tend to have expenses of their own as well.

So working in FKK may give them big capital, but they still got to do something life after FKK, well, it is better with such capital.

In closing, I tend to think younger just began recent months FKK girls are better at service than experienced one and more soft on you to negotiate fairly serving both of our interest. Experienced FKK girls tend to begin negotiation only to their favor, but similar to Donald Trump way of negotiation really LOL.

[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2333960]Very nice and respectful, you should tell it to the girls next time you come. That's funny but most of the girls I meet in sauna clubs are smart, speak a lot of languages [/QUOTE]They may not be educated in school, but some of them are street smart, they have to be in their nation and also in German FKK to survive.

However, I have some FKK girl who retired in my sns for a while and by looking at their pictures, some of them are in university, so I guess in part, they did their FKK years to build their capital for better life.

They were street smart, got even tougher in FKK industries, then now they went for university education, I hope they will do well in their life after FKK. It is sometimes odd to see some innocent looking husband or boyfriend by their side, well who knows what is the real stories are, but I guess it does not matter in their world and our world of mongering.

Once wise forum poster posted, we are all in movie industry where we mongers are director who direct actress to give us the sexual act that we mongers want. It is all beautiful illusions that somehow last forever, it is priceless experience to find new stunner level young beauty in FKK every year.

Mainhatten has an "ash room" but what other clubs have no smoking or controlled isolated smoking?

Was at Mainhatten recently. Very once 3 D action in the kino, *very* hung guy screwing this chick who loved the attention and seemed to be definitely liking it. Quite amusing to see big balls slapping against her and a huge horse like dick crammed in. Needless to say I booked her but she was a bit sore so finished with a nice BBJ.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2334072] I suspect the WGs are the same. For instance, the WG's financial goal might be to just net 300 EUR per 12 hour shift. As long as they are making that, they are fine with more smoke breaks in the lounge. Less time dealing with customers. And less stress.[/QUOTE]Indeed, I have noticed the same too. The exception however is if they have kids. If that is the case, then they tend to think more long term in order to save up a lot more. Although most girls won't admit to having kids even if they do.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2333292]Are these new poor service upselling recruits in last 2 years actually making more money per month compared to the new good service no-upselling recruits before that? I remember Aylice at Sharks or Elizabeth CZ at Oase in 2015-2016 used to easily make 1000-1500 e per day, 15000 - 20000 e per month by doing 50 e 30 min sessions or multiple units of that with giving really good service and zero upselling. How many of these poor service upselling new recruits in last 2 years make that kind of money in Oase or Sharks nowadays? I don't know any, do anybody here know? If they are not making similar to Elizabeth CZ or Aylice, maybe they can learn from the history? Maybe we mongers can help today's new recruits by coaching them about how to maximize net income by balancing good products and solid services with attractive pricing, commitment to quality, volume and discounts, value of repeat business etc, when we get any chance to talk with them?[/QUOTE]Not sure. If any, it would probably have to be Estephania. Maybe other girls tries to copy her tactics. She over analyzed the sharks market. At Oase I've seen her make tons of money on a busy night. But perhaps not so much on slower days. Maybe over a month she did make more at sharks. That might just be the case with many new girls now too. They test the market more than girls in the past did. So heavy tourist clubs can make rates skyrocket, and girls can misjudge everything. Leading to lower income in the long run.

I read a few 3 or 4 year old posts of Sidonia at Sharks. And they all seemed to be very poor. But my own experience with her is only the best. Close to 10/10 last time. Maybe she is one who now has noticed the importance of improved reputation. I didn't do her 3-4 years ago when she was new. Maybe that was a good call. Maybe it is best to let the girls start with a slow year, and then try them later on. Also these sub 20 year old sometimes have a tendency to whine about size way too much. And the extra year or two may be good for others to have stretched them out a bit also, LOL!

[QUOTE=Theo110;2333190]5. The girl at least pretending like she is into it and cares about my pleasure.[/QUOTE]There are a few girls around who specialize in faking orgasms. So I just ask them mid session if they do that. Try it! Worst case, they laugh about it, and while doing so, tense their stomach muscles when doing so.

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2334169]Mainhatten has an "ash room" but what other clubs have no smoking or controlled isolated smoking?

Was at Mainhatten recently. Very once 3 D action in the kino, *very* hung guy screwing this chick who loved the attention and seemed to be definitely liking it. Quite amusing to see big balls slapping against her and a huge horse like dick crammed in. Needless to say I booked her but she was a bit sore so finished with a nice BBJ.[/QUOTE]Oceans has separate smoking room in the club, also by the garden there is another smoking room, then finally you can go outside to smoke as well.

Palace had, but I hear they got rid of smoking room and now became like Artemis, the ultimate of chimney club at main bar.

I think slowly, cigarettes will be replaced by e-cigarette. So soon it will be like a steam room instead in main bar LOL.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2334072]The younger WGs at the tourist clubs often choose NOT to copy the most successful WGs. They often choose to model themselves after the sharkiest WGs. In fact, as WGs gain experience, their service and attitude generally starts to deteriorate, skewing more towards the sharkiest WGs then towards the most successful WGs. Those two facts alone should speak volumes.

I believe these sharky WGs have observed other WGs as well as learned their own experience. They know what their threshold is for tolerating customers. The annoying customers, the delusional customers, the suffocating and emotionally needy customers, the stalker customers. My final thought is that some of these WGs have already made more money than they ever dreamed possible. Once you have reached major financial milestones, money ceases to be the primary motivating factor. Plenty of mongers in their 40-50's, particularly the ones that are not married with kids, have admitted to me that they are no longer working long hours towards a promotion like they did in their younger years. Instead, they are looking to coast to the finish line. More work-life balance. More FKK trips. I suspect the WGs are the same. For instance, the WG's financial goal might be to just net 300 EUR per 12 hour shift. As long as they are making that, they are fine with more smoke breaks in the lounge. Less time dealing with customers. And less stress.[/QUOTE]Everyone here had excellent points in favor or against the ability and willingness to learn good business practice by the masses of current snarky FKK girls. But all that said, isn't it still beneficial to us mongers to try to coach at least some of these girls if / when we talk with them? Even if only 5% girls improve after 3 or 6 months, isn't it still better than what we get from them now? Why should we not try (maybe in between sessions when sometimes we do useless banter with the girls, particularly when a girl complains about not making enough money or not many customers etc etc) when we have nothing to lose, only chances of some gain even if that's only incremental? I plan to do my part of that "trying" going forward, hope some of you here will too. 😊.

I plan to post individual reviews in the threads for each of these clubs, but here's my overall impression of Duss-area FKKs:

They are not as good as Frankfurt, not even close.

Living Room on Friday night had the full complement of girls (about 20 - 30). But only three were do-able to my taste, and I only got one. This club is way too small and barebones to charge a 60 Euro entry fee. But more on this greedy management later. I got a green-eyed, all natural Romanian brunette called Renata for a 130 Euro (1 HR) session with many of the extras I like (I'll include details in my Living Room thread review). As I mentioned, there were a couple of other girls I could have done at least a basic session with, but I was saving up for the following day. It may have been a mistake.

I drove out to Golden Time on Saturday afternoon. It's run by the same management at LR, and charged the same overpriced 60 Euro entry fee. This visit was a disgrace! It was my first FKK visit ever without even getting a single girl. It's my first-ever bad review of an FKK, or even bad forum review period. The club was infested with mongers at 3 in the afternoon. It seemed there were at least 100 guys. They ran out of lockers! They claimed to have 75 girls working, but all I saw was 25 ugly ones. Fake, old, and defensive (from all the guys). It was a disaster. When I left in a huff after only two hours of aimless wandering, the management ran out to ask what was wrong. They wouldn't offer to refund even a part of the entry fee, of course. Not even a free transfer to Living Room (just the standard discount).

I said to hell with them and both their clubs, driving down to Dolce Vita, and paying the same 35 Euro entry I would have paid at LR (with the damn discount). Dolce Vita was very low-key, with few mongers and girls even through Saturday evening. But I sessioned with a blonde petit Bulgarian named Victoria for 100 Euro (incl extras), and a modellesque, blonde, tattoo-free Romanian beauty named Laora that had one of the most memorable bodies I've seen in a while. More in my DV thread review.

In short, some hard work and a few diamonds in the rough saved the weekend. But Dusseldorf is not Frankfurt. Not by a long shot!

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2334169]Mainhatten has an "ash room" but what other clubs have no smoking or controlled isolated smoking?

Was at Mainhatten recently. Very once 3 D action in the kino, *very* hung guy screwing this chick who loved the attention and seemed to be definitely liking it. Quite amusing to see big balls slapping against her and a huge horse like dick crammed in. Needless to say I booked her but she was a bit sore so finished with a nice BBJ.[/QUOTE]Clubs with ash / smoking rooms are in a decline it seems. Marina had it (closed now), and Palace had it before the renovation.

Off the top of my head I can only think of Oceans still having an ash / smoke room now (it is pretty new also. And before they got it last summer, smokers had to go out in the backyard to smoke). And at Paradise Stuttgart it is allowed to smoke in the bar room, but not in the main lounge. At Magnum I think there were sectioned off areas where smoking was allowed, and where it wasn't also.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2334072],,,My final thought is that some of these WGs have already made more money than they ever dreamed possible. Once you have reached major financial milestones, money ceases to be the primary motivating factor. ,,,For instance, the WG's financial goal might be to just net 300 EUR per 12 hour shift. As long as they are making that, they are fine with more smoke breaks in the lounge. Less time dealing with customers. And less stress.[/QUOTE]It is likely only minority of girls have successfully save their FKK earning responsibly for education, home, retirements. Those who do I believe quit FKK entirely once financial goal are reach, then to move on to better life. I hearing girls expressing displeasure of the FKK unhealthy bad food, the smoke, listen to the same music every hour, no sun, little sleep, long work hour, crazy customer, vagina become sore but still must to work through such soreness, not enjoy sex anymore, cannot have real boyfriend so stay lonely, unlikely a girl would stay in FKK if she having worked enough to reach significant financial successes.

The girl you are mention who deal less with customer likely still need the moneys, but they wishing to make most money with least amount of customer and least amount of wear on the body. These are such girls who demand 100 for 30 minute, typically prefer more expensive anal customer to save their sore vagina, and have client list of lonely widower type man who just wish talk them several hours in room without any or much actual service. Such girl avoid regular clients who only give normal 100 for 60 min. Instead these girl seek the "extras" customer or overpaying tourist they can exploiting with 5 minute session. Agreeing with you that such girl seek less stress and more smoke break, but for them I believing money is still a main motivation for remain in FKK.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2334209]Everyone here had excellent points in favor or against the ability and willingness to learn good business practice by the masses of current snarky FKK girls. But all that said, isn't it still beneficial to us mongers to try to coach at least some of these girls if / when we talk with them? Even if only 5% girls improve after 3 or 6 months, isn't it still better than what we get from them now? Why should we not try (maybe in between sessions when sometimes we do useless banter with the girls, particularly when a girl complains about not making enough money or not many customers etc etc) when we have nothing to lose, only chances of some gain even if that's only incremental? I plan to do my part of that "trying" going forward, hope some of you here will too..[/QUOTE]Gino,

In theory, what you say makes sense. As you said, if each of us can influence even just one girl to better herself and her service and attitude and energy levels, the club will be a much better place.

Perhaps it would be helpful if you have specific and concrete ideas. What are the things you have in mind that can set a badly performing girl down the path of becoming better?

Remember, it has to be a girl whose service and attitude are not satisfactory. Sharks' Mandy does not need help from any of us to improve her service, it is the Casseys of Oase that the other gent mentioned in a different thread who need mending and reform.

And simply saying "don't entertain such girls, walk away from them, do not agree to their demands for extras, do not pay extra for BBBJ and kissing etc" will not cut it. Sensible mongers are already doing all those things and that did not bring about any noticeable change in their behavior and service.

If you can lay out your concrete suggestions and if you have already tried these on any girl and what the result has been, that will inspire more of us to follow the path you are recommending.

[QUOTE=PahllusMaximus;2334169]Mainhatten has an "ash room" but what other clubs have no smoking or controlled isolated smoking?

Was at Mainhatten recently. Very once 3 D action in the kino, *very* hung guy screwing this chick who loved the attention and seemed to be definitely liking it. Quite amusing to see big balls slapping against her and a huge horse like dick crammed in. Needless to say I booked her but she was a bit sore so finished with a nice BBJ.[/QUOTE]Finca has smoking only in the back room area, with fans mounted high on the wall to exhaust the smoke. Works pretty well.

From my experiences, most of German girls working in FKK really come from low level, why many are often marked like cow with pimp name, brother name as they say, written on them. Highest level Romanian girls don t work in FKK, but in normal job, even they make less money. Even some speak different languages, but I don t meet many who sound clever, most are bad liars, think they can drive most of guys like little dogs and become angry when they can't control one. This business is full of frustration for WGs and some guys.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2334113]Then they get taxed on that one.[/QUOTE]They don't get taxed on that amount, they get taxed on what they declare. You get my point!

Remember their money is without invoice, without receipt, even the entry in many clubs is without a POS machine, and no credit=debit cards accepted.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2334181]There are a few girls around who specialize in faking orgasms. So I just ask them mid session if they do that. Try it! Worst case, they laugh about it, and while doing so, tense their stomach muscles when doing so.[/QUOTE][I]As long as you are pleased with the lesser, you cannot have the highest. Whatever pleases you, holds you back.[/I]

-- Nisargadatta Maharaj.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2334333]From my experiences, most of German girls working in FKK really come from low level, why many are often marked like cow with pimp name, brother name as they say, written on them. Highest level Romanian girls don t work in FKK, but in normal job, even they make less money. Even some speak different languages, but I don t meet many who sound clever, most are bad liars, think they can drive most of guys like little dogs and become angry when they can't control one. This business is full of frustration for WGs and some guys.[/QUOTE]I agree 100 %. Siri couldn't say it better.

I believe there is high level however but that is less than 5 %.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2334180]Not sure. If any, it would probably have to be Estephania. Maybe other girls tries to copy her tactics. She over analyzed the sharks market. At Oase I've seen her make tons of money on a busy night. But perhaps not so much on slower days. Maybe over a month she did make more at sharks. That might just be the case with many new girls now too. They test the market more than girls in the past did. So heavy tourist clubs can make rates skyrocket, and girls can misjudge everything. Leading to lower income in the long run.

I read a few 3 or 4 year old posts of Sidonia at Sharks. And they all seemed to be very poor. But my own experience with her is only the best. Close to 10/10 last time. Maybe she is one who now has noticed the importance of improved reputation. I didn't do her 3-4 years ago when she was new. Maybe that was a good call. Maybe it is best to let the girls start with a slow year, and then try them later on. Also these sub 20 year old sometimes have a tendency to whine about size way too much. And the extra year or two may be good for others to have stretched them out a bit also, LOL![/QUOTE]Small doll Estefania doesn't seem so busy now at Oase, same for Adela, and I visit only on Friday or Saturday.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2334092]Of course, the strong minded among us would say "just withhold paying any extras to the girls and do not give business to the bad service girls, and eventually they will be so devoid of any business and either have to change their ways or leave the business altogether". In effect, these guys have faith in the market and suggest that if only the mongers stayed united and stopped rewarding the bad service girls, the world would be alright.

I do not disagree with this view, but the flaw is that mongers are no more united than the girls. Invariably, the tourists, newbies, mongers flush with excess cash, and many others do not care about paying a few euros extra and break ranks. As in any market, it is the *marginal buyer and marginal seller* that sets the clearing price.
[/QUOTE]At smaller clubs where management is more hands-on and male customers are more socially interconnected and sharing information with one another, that sharky WG will not survive for long. She will need to conform or find a megaclub.

[QUOTE=Jolokia;2334285]The girl you are mention who deal less with customer likely still need the moneys, but they wishing to make most money with least amount of customer and least amount of wear on the body. These are such girls who demand 100 for 30 minute, typically prefer more expensive anal customer to save their sore vagina, and have client list of lonely widower type man who just wish talk them several hours in room without any or much actual service. Such girl avoid regular clients who only give normal 100 for 60 min. Instead these girl seek the "extras" customer or overpaying tourist they can exploiting with 5 minute session. Agreeing with you that such girl seek less stress and more smoke break, but for them I believing money is still a main motivation for remain in FKK.[/QUOTE]My stance is most WGs hate their jobs. And that the WGs do indeed observe other WGs. They see that superstar WG making 1000 EUR, but spending a full 10-12 full hours interacting with customers (pre, post, and actual zimmer time). Then they see a sharky WG making 500 EUR but spending only about 2-3 hours interacting with customers and on "smoke break" the other 9-10 hours. Many WGs choose to model themselves after the sharky WG, even though it is glaringly obvious that the superstar WG makes more.

If the WG truly hates her job, then the second option is more preferable because it allows her to maintain her sanity. The superstar WG, although she makes more per 12 hour shift, may be looked upon as a "sucker". Romanians grew up in a corrupt system, so finding ways to outsmart the system and cut corners became a survival skill for them. They are sometimes ambivalent about dishonesty. If executed in a clever way, cheating, unscrupulous behavior, and pilfering is often looked upon with admiration. They even have a word for this: smecherie.

[URL]https://books.google.de/books?id=rXoFAQAAQBAJ&pg=PT54&lpg=PT54&dq=romanians%2Bcut%2Bcorners[/URL]

Pretending and "faking emotions" is mentally and emotionally draining. Have you guys never had a job you hated? Or worked for a boss that you wanted to punch in the face? You find ways to take longer breaks, avoid, disengage, and mentally recharge between each dreaded interaction. When you hate a large portion of your waking hours, being always "present" sucks your will to live. And you stay only at the job because you are comfortable and secure. Doing the bare minimum and mentally checking out is then the key to longevity and the key to avoiding burnout.

[URL]https://www.forbes.com/sites/markmurphy/2017/05/14/research-shows-that-if-you-have-to-fake-your-emotions-at-work-youre-probably-going-to-be-miserable[/URL]

[QUOTE=Pistons;2334172]Indeed, I have noticed the same too. The exception however is if they have kids. If that is the case, then they tend to think more long term in order to save up a lot more. Although most girls won't admit to having kids even if they do.[/QUOTE]I believe that superstar WGs exhibit two qualities in abundance: (1) mature for their age, and (2) patient beyond belief. Becoming a mother generally enhances both of those traits. Using my stubborn, 21 year old self as a point of reference, the immature ones often have more attitude and are more prone to mouth off and they already think they know everything. Being patient is useful when dealing with the crazy, annoying, and mentally unstable customers. Or dealing with customers that think they know it all and want to dispense advice to you. Impatient, immature WGs would roll their eyes to these customers' faces, whereas the mature, patient ones would do it after these customers paid them.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2334376]They don't get taxed on that amount, they get taxed on what they declare. You get my point!

Remember their money is without invoice, without receipt, even the entry in many clubs is without a POS machine, and no credit=debit cards accepted.[/QUOTE]Soon or later, authority may enforce cashless payment in brothels LOL.

I think prostitutes should be entitled to be tax exempted and tax free because actually what they do decrease crime rate, give energy to many men's lives, and take the gas out of stressful society for men and above all they sell dreams to men and make us feel complete as man in area of lust and desire. Prostitution as occupation is so underrated by society.

[QUOTE=JunkJock;2334241]I plan to post individual reviews in the threads for each of these clubs, but here's my overall impression of Duss-area FKKs:

They are not as good as Frankfurt, not even close.

Living Room on Friday night had the full complement of girls (about 20 - 30). But only three were do-able to my taste, and I only got one. This club is way too small and barebones to charge a 60 Euro entry fee. But more on this greedy management later. I got a green-eyed, all natural Romanian brunette called Renata for a 130 Euro (1 HR) session with many of the extras I like (I'll include details in my Living Room thread review). As I mentioned, there were a couple of other girls I could have done at least a basic session with, but I was saving up for the following day. It may have been a mistake.

I drove out to Golden Time on Saturday afternoon. It's run by the same management at LR, and charged the same overpriced 60 Euro entry fee. This visit was a disgrace! It was my first FKK visit ever without even getting a single girl. It's my first-ever bad review of an FKK, or even bad forum review period. The club was infested with mongers at 3 in the afternoon. It seemed there were at least 100 guys. They ran out of lockers! They claimed to have 75 girls working, but all I saw was 25 ugly ones. Fake, old, and defensive (from all the guys). It was a disaster. When I left in a huff after only two hours of aimless wandering, the management ran out to ask what was wrong. They wouldn't offer to refund even a part of the entry fee, of course. Not even a free transfer to Living Room (just the standard discount).[/QUOTE]NRW clubs tend to provide better service than Hessen or Berlin clubs, but yeah, I also noticed line up being rather mediocre with almost no stunner in line up, some day I got lucky, but optically NRW is lower than Frankfurt or Berlin clubs.

Oddly, best girls I had optically in past 10 years in German FKK were all in palace and also Artemis. Both are near city upsell clubs, so I guess most beautiful girls go where the money is.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2334523]At smaller clubs where management is more hands-on and male customers are more socially interconnected and sharing information with one another, that sharky WG will not survive for long. She will need to conform or find a megaclub.[/QUOTE]Yes, you are right. My example was more suited to a megaclub with neither a cartel of WGs nor a united monger group existing in that place. In a small club, as you say, some customers can gang up and blacklist the bad service WGs (or in some clubs a few sharky WGs May form a cartel). But as you pointed out, all the clubs are part of a larger paid sex system; so they are not truly islands on their own. Girls can leave and go to other clubs. Likewise, if a group of men are able to boycott a few sharky WGs thereby improving standards in that club, then word will leak out which brings other men (who are not related to the aforementioned united gang) to that club, some of them tourists too, and they can be preyed upon by the sharky WGs. So, the market clearing mechanism will still work as long as we have a large number of clubs.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2334545]NRW clubs tend to provide better service than Hessen or Berlin clubs, but yeah, I also noticed line up being rather mediocre with almost no stunner in line up, some day I got lucky, but optically NRW is lower than Frankfurt or Berlin clubs.

Oddly, best girls I had optically in past 10 years in German FKK were all in palace and also Artemis. Both are near city upsell clubs, so I guess most beautiful girls go where the money is.[/QUOTE]While not getting into the same debate again, I broadly agree with you. I am however able to obtain good service at standard prices from a sufficient number of good looking girls in the megaclubs, and hence I have been going to those more often. The converse, I. E. Finding a sufficient number of high optics girls in the smaller, service oriented clubs has not been as easy a task, at least for me.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2334544]Soon or later, authority may enforce cashless payment in brothels LOL.

I think prostitutes should be entitled to be tax exempted and tax free because actually what they do decrease crime rate, give energy to many men's lives, and take the gas out of stressful society for men and above all they sell dreams to men and make us feel complete as man in area of lust and desire. Prostitution as occupation is so underrated by society.[/QUOTE]I agree. And we men should be able to itemize and deduct our FKK / mongering related expenses as healthcare costs in our Tax Returns. These are truly medical expenses in my case, similar to medical marijuana. Without the FKK medications, my pain from the blue balls is excruciating, totally unbearable.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2334544]Soon or later, authority may enforce cashless payment in brothels LOL.

I think prostitutes should be entitled to be tax exempted and tax free because actually what they do decrease crime rate, give energy to many men's lives, and take the gas out of stressful society for men and above all they sell dreams to men and make us feel complete as man in area of lust and desire. Prostitution as occupation is so underrated by society.[/QUOTE]On that point what could we say about teachers or doctors then?

But it is not the girls that I mind they are tax avoiding but the clubs. In my country every company must by law have the ability to accept credit or debit cards and not only cash.

Only cash in business environment is not a good thing and causes many problems. And FKK clubs are legal companies right so why not plastic money? The only club I know so far accepting cards is Artemis.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2334544]Soon or later, authority may enforce cashless payment in brothels LOL.

I think prostitutes should be entitled to be tax exempted and tax free because actually what they do decrease crime rate, give energy to many men's lives, and take the gas out of stressful society for men and above all they sell dreams to men and make us feel complete as man in area of lust and desire. Prostitution as occupation is so underrated by society.[/QUOTE]Not so sure that prostitutes decrease crime rates, how many man are never going to prostitutes and are a lot happier than those going every week several times. I reduced drastically my FKK visits in the last 2 years and I feel a lot better, when I see all those man mostly over 50 seating in the FKK waiting hours and hours in a dark bar area for eventually find a girl and after sometime coming out of the room even walking 3 meters from the girl he just had sex with, I am really happy to be able to change my sex addiction to far more positive things. The best sex is never with a prostitute and many of us are leaving the room after sessioning more frustrated than when we entered.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2334614]I agree. And we men should be able to itemize and deduct our FKK / mongering related expenses as healthcare costs in our Tax Returns. These are truly medical expenses in my case, similar to medical marijuana. Without the FKK medications, my pain from the blue balls is excruciating, totally unbearable.[/QUOTE]One of my favourites had been a nurse. She said she saw her new job as prostitute to be even more effective mental healthcare than being a nurse LOL.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2334453]I agree 100 %. Siri couldn't say it better.

I believe there is high level however but that is less than 5 %.[/QUOTE]I meant about cleverness, which is quite different from studies, or speaking many languages. Even my chic with charm were not so high level cleverness, one of the very rare for me is Kate, certainly why she has such success in her new business, without needing to gossip or bullshit, but charming companionship.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2334713]One of my favourites had been a nurse. She said she saw her new job as prostitute to be even more effective mental healthcare than being a nurse LOL.[/QUOTE]She should become a nursery teacher!

I mean, how can feminists claim sex for money is derogatory when nurses clean the butts of sick 90 year old with diarrhea?

[QUOTE=Pistons;2334826]
I mean, how can feminists claim sex for money is derogatory when nurses clean the butts of sick 90 year old with diarrhea?[/QUOTE]Salaam Pistons. At least nurses do something useful. Many girls in "respectable" jobs are doing make-work or worse.

I was recently smooching with a girl who was fresh from a call center. In her last job she was talking to people being rude to her all day. In her new job, guys were telling her how beautiful she was all day. Guess which job she preferred? Which job is better for people's mental health?

How about the pols switch their focus to outlawing telemarketing jobs, or any other industry that sets people against each other, instead of a service that people actually want?

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2334596]While not getting into the same debate again, I broadly agree with you. I am however able to obtain good service at standard prices from a sufficient number of good looking girls in the megaclubs, and hence I have been going to those more often. The converse, I. E. Finding a sufficient number of high optics girls in the smaller, service oriented clubs has not been as easy a task, at least for me.[/QUOTE]LR and GT is rather small club, especially LR. And personally, when it comes to service for standard 30 min rate, these two are the best I went from known clubs.

Oddly, in Artemis I got lucky few times of getting it all for 60 euro per 30 min session, meaning DFK, rimjob, DATY, BBBJ (it was before law) and fuck with condom, but I can count that in 6 years I went there till 2015. I am returning to Artemis this late summer, so I will see how that club changed after absences of few years.

NRW is good for service, but I tend to find optic of line up better in rip off club like palace and Artemis, underneath many many plastic monsters with ink on their body, I often found real beauty in those two clubs, usually they come with higher price tag LOL. Artemis disappointed me, let see if they change the line up to be better like it once used to be.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2334826]She should become a nursery teacher!

I mean, how can feminists claim sex for money is derogatory when nurses clean the butts of sick 90 year old with diarrhea?[/QUOTE]What you say is exactly what the girl said to me (apart from the feminist bits). She is now in a different healthcare career having retrained in Germany using her earnings from prostitution.

Three useful jobs. Some people have brains.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2334752]I meant about cleverness, which is quite different from studies, or speaking many languages. Even my chic with charm were not so high level cleverness, one of the very rare for me is Kate, certainly why she has such success in her new business, without needing to gossip or bullshit, but charming companionship.[/QUOTE]Yes they are clever and smart but this has nothing to do with behave and attitude. I think FKK girls are either very smart or very dumb there is no between. But regarding behave and attitude which is something you learn among education they are far from that.

Even WGs do this job for big fast, not easy, money, even sometimes pimps behind when some claim to be high class, but they provide a social job for guys who need sex, some in both parts even sometimes looking for a bit of love they need. According to girls, many married guys who can t get from their wife. When I say I m not married and if I was I would not come, girls don t believe me and look if I have mark on finger. Maybe for tax they get, but Germans are more clever than French to understand guys need to empty balls, when Sweden is just a shame about sex boats from Tallin. USA, land of porn close to LA, is just hypocrite joke. In France, prostitution is not forbidden, many escorts advertise on internet, but prosecution for clients, just stupid politics, You can look at beautiful Russians photos, but You can t taste, better guys go to make problems to girls they see in streets.

Here is the list of the clubs I visited and my rankings based on experience.

1. FKK Dietzenbach 1230 pm Thursday 6/6.

Food / Facilities 2. This place is a well known dump. They did have the little hotdogs and soda.

Casting 4. There were about 8 girls working. 2 would be average in a normal club. The rest were gross.

Service Levels. Did not have a session. Too busy.

Value for $. This place is cheap but did not session.

Crowd / Environment 2 - Lots of local Germans love this place. Every time I go in here its full of clientele with pop bellies, amputees, old guys who look like Smeagol from Lord of the Rings Creeping around very slowly. There were about 20 guys in the place when I arrived and 8 women working. 2 were doable. Lost Patience waiting my turn after an hour sitting on the red cum coach. Girl to guy 1 to 4.

2. FKK Sharks Friday 6/14.

Food / Facilities 8 - Had good BBQ. Place is clean. Nice full bar with decent service. Good outdoor area. NO AC in rooms.

Casting 7 - Hundreds of girls to choose from. So many they all start to look the same. Not as good as Living Room or Oase.

Service Levels - 6 Some Gems to be found here that will provide good service.

Value for $ 6 About half the girls here try to do the upsell but not as bad as Mainhatten and Palace. If you find a few gems that you see regularly expect better service.

Crowd / Environment 8 - Met one of the senior posters here had a good conversation. I have been to this club 20 times since 2017. My most visited club and favorite place on earth. Lots of energy in this place and good staff. Girl to guy 3 to 1 early 1 to 1 evening.

3. FKK Mainhatten Sunday 6/9 1030 pm to 1 am.

Food / Facilities 6 - They had a good spread in the Bistro. Schnitzel and Fries. I do like it better when they have the BBQ going during the day. Pool is nice. Beer included (if you can get the bar tenders attention) Large Kino awkward set up though. Weird glass doors in between main room and sauna area. Smoking room is where most of the girls hang out. If you don't want to smell like smoke can be hard to get a girls attention without going in there.

Casting 4 - Most of the girls here look the same. The most generic casting I have ever seen in FKK.

Service Levels 2 - This is an upsell place. Constant up-sell from all the girls. Then you give them the extra money they want and it is still terrible. Rushed terrible service from most providers. Even if you discuss before going to the room and agree they then try and upsell more.

Value for $ 1 - Upsell that never stops. Talked to the receptionist she told me to stop being so cheap and to leave. Avoid this place. ("erotic massage extra 50 euros, kiss extra 50 euros, BBBJ extra 50 euros, get the fuck out of here.).

Crowd / Environment 2 - Scum people in this place. I hate this club. Had a good experience back on 2017 during the day. Since then its been terrible. You can get Cocaine and Viagra here though. Girl to guy 1 to 1.

4. FKK Oase Thursday 6/6 230 pm to 2 am.

Food / Facilities - 8 Place was under construction. Had everyone in the Bistro and Pool Room. Staff here can be kind of rude. The food was OK, they have average made to order pizzas certain times of the day.

Casting - 8 - One step above sharks. I like that they have very young new girls here that still have sex like they do with normal guys back home.

Service Levels - 6 Varies here. Usually one out of every 3 sessions I have is good. If you can find a group of friends and one of the providers is good the others will probably be too. 65% of the girls will try and upsell you here. Make expectations clear before going to room.

Value for $- 4 Some stunners here, they want extra though. Don't expect many great 50 or 100 euro rooms.

Crowd / Environment 7 - Find some cool people to chat with in this club. Night time on weekends they have a DJ. Good vibes up until about midnight then it starts to decline. Was not crowded when I visited girl to guy 3 to 1.

5. FKK Palace Monday 6/10 11 pm to 1 am.

Food / Facilities - 8 Very Nice Club. AC in the rooms. I'm not a fan of the food but its ok. Heated floor in locker room. Nice Bar, Large Kino, Nice Suana.

Casting - 7 Casting here varies. Sometimes its hot, sometimes its generic. They don't let girls under 21 work here if you like the younger ones.

Service Levels - 5 Hit of miss here. 30% are good providers. The rest are up-selling scum.

Value for $ - 3 This is an up-sell place. Very high pressure non fun time. Can find a few Gems especially during day time hours. Night time it gets more difficult. High entry fee 70 euro.

Crowd / Environment. Nothing notable. Quiet Clientele. Girls are the same as most other places. Was not crowed. Girl to guy 2 to 1.

6. Sauna Club Living Room Saturday 6/8 1030 pm to 4 am.

Food / Facilities - 7 Had good BBQ, Pizza at midnight. Beers in fridge you can grab yourself. Fastest bartending service I have seen in FKK. MGMT is on top of shit here.

Casting 8 - Good variety here, Some stunners, along with girl next door types, to tatted milfs.

Service Levels - 8 About as good as your going to find for the quality of girls. Standard BBBJ, kissing, etc no upsell.

Value for $ - 8 No upsell here can get good service from most girls for the standard 50 to 100.

Crowd / Environment. Girl to guy ratio 1 to 1. Good party atmosphere at night. Night time club, lots of people visit here after Goldentyme during the day. Was crowded at night prime-time lots of wait for rooms. Would be better to visit on non weekend night.

7. Suana Club Acapulco Gold Sunday 6/9 2 pm to 430 pm.

Food / Facilities 8 - Very nice place for the low entry fee. Not Gourmet food but good enough for the low entry. Mouthwash provided. Kino was shrunk to add two more rooms.

Casting 7 - Good variety of girls here. Quality not too much lower then the 50 E clubs. Lots of young girls who just start work here.

Service Levels 8 - Kissing is standard here. Good energy and foreplay in most rooms. Not rushed. BBBJ 50/50 chance here depending on girl. No upsell.

Value for $ -8 Good service with decent looking girls for 40 U.

Crowd / Environment - 5 When I went this place was packed. Girl to Guy 1 to 4. Had to park 400 meters away. Long lines for food. Hard to find a place to sit. Just found the girls I wanted and took them immediately. When the Velbert location opens back up it will go down.

9. FKK Villa Venus Sat 6/8 230 pm to 430 pm.

Food / Facilities - 3 a slight step up from Dietz. They had some prepackaged pastries and such.

Casting - 3 - There were 10 girls here. 1 who would be average at other FKK's. 3 others fuckable the rest blah.

Service Levels - 10- You get whatever you want here no upsell. AO DFK CIM CIP.

Value for $ 10 - Everything you want. 30 Euros LOL!

Crowd / Environment. Very Nice girls. Lady at desk chainsmokeing cigs. Regular German customers. There was a guy sitting in the corner on his macbook for like 3 hours. Girl to guy ratio 1 to 1.

10. FKK Arabella.

Food / Facilities - 4 same as VV.

Casting - 6- Step up from VV. But the younger cuter girls are not AO.

Service Levels 5 - The girl I had Cindi was a bust. Still BBBJ but not AO. She wasn't into it.

Value for $ 8 - 30 Euros for some of the girls they have is a value. Just got to interview properly before to make sure you get the right one.

Crowd / Environment 8 - Had a nice chat with some of the men there and women. Almost has a swingers club vibe. Was asked if I wanted to have group sex with another guy and girl. Girl to guy ration 2 to 1.

It's very interesting that people who say prostitution is bad for women are either the women who never worked as a prostitute (and thus actually understood the benefits of prostitution) or the men who has something to gain by saying that (eg some politicians or lawyers). Of course there are some exceptions that prove the norm.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2334545]NRW clubs tend to provide better service than Hessen or Berlin clubs, but yeah, I also noticed line up being rather mediocre with almost no stunner in line up, some day I got lucky, but optically NRW is lower than Frankfurt or Berlin clubs.

Oddly, best girls I had optically in past 10 years in German FKK were all in palace and also Artemis. Both are near city upsell clubs, so I guess most beautiful girls go where the money is.[/QUOTE]I had my first time to Artemis last night, after my previous weekend in Duss. Will leave a review in the Artemis thread, but you're absolutely right. Some better talent "optically". The service didn't suffer either, it was just more expensive.

[QUOTE=JunkJock;2335321]I had my first time to Artemis last night, after my previous weekend in Duss. Will leave a review in the Artemis thread, but you're absolutely right. Some better talent "optically". The service didn't suffer either, it was just more expensive.[/QUOTE]Trend nowadays are 100 euro for 30 min full package with BBBJ, DFK and DATY and condom fuck in palace. As for Artemis I have not been there since 2015, but I guess line up got better again with some good optic girls back again? Artemis was the place to be in 2010 till 2014 when there always were new stunner level beauty each time I visit, which was nice feeling to know that I was going to fuck new young beauty every time I visited that club back then.

As for optic, that is what I noticed as well going around NRW 4 years, Hessen 4 years and Berlin 6 years, absolute stunner optically are in palace and Artemis with bit of digging based on my experience, there usually are one to three stunners, max five back in golden days, but for me two stunners in line per day is enough, more is better, but I cannot complain because golden days are over, though according to you, it maybe back again considering top girls go where they can upsell their beauty. I will be back in Artemis in late summer and I cannot wait how that clubs line up changed. Hopefully.

Theo:

You give LR and Oase both an 8 for casting. And it seems this is not including service as you have a separate category for that. But I am guessing there is the usual aprox 8-10 lookers at Oase. Which is fair enough to give it an 8. Has LR really got the same amount of lookers?

Also you give Aca Gold the same score as you give Sharks. Both a 7! Now I truly wonder which Acapulco V girls have gone over? And who has not gone up to Great Palace. I assume Hannah and her group is still at Aca G. Maybe Lucy? If both of them are there, it is a big bonus, but there should be more numerous girls at such high quality to have that score. I recall my only Aca Gold visit 18 months ago, I gave it a complete no for lineup score in my review. So the lineup better have changed drastically to be on Sharks level!

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2335122]Yes they are clever and smart but this has nothing to do with behave and attitude. I think FKK girls are either very smart or very dumb there is no between. But regarding behave and attitude which is something you learn among education they are far from that.[/QUOTE]My meaning: most of WGs are not really clever, only a very few are smart. If they were more, most would get better business, smart girls are usually busier, like Kate at GT.

WG's service is not a matter of WG's cleverness or dumbness. WG's service, IMHO, is mainly a WG's character issue, not a WG's intelligence issue, I. E. How good a WG's service is is mainly determined by the WG's character, not by her intelligence or her other factors. We here discussed in the past week about whether WG's service is teachable and changeable. I think that most WG's services are almost unteachable and unchangeable after their initial several-week internship in the business because their characters are almost unchangeable at their ages. Some WG's service may be YMMV, but this is because the character of very small percentage of WGs is YMMV, I. E. They treat people differently by their character.

I think the implication of my view is:

1) If one fellow monger or friend TRUTHFULLY recommends a WG for her good service and you know what is his standard of defining WG's good service, you most likely will get good service from this WG if you have at most the same standard as this monger or friend. Even if her service is YMMV, her YMMV service would be within the margin of her good service.

2) If you have good judgement about women' characters in real life, just apply this skill of your judgement to the WGs with the emphasis on their kindness and niceness as first screening of your evaluation of WGs, because girl's character won't change that much after she becomes a prostitute.

Bfsie. I totally agree with your para re character For me what you suggest works 100%. I choose according to their character, simply niceness or kindness. If a girl radiates these her optics are radically improved (although of course a size 40 won't turn into my preferred 30/32, German sizing).

I do think the job can be taught, but they have to have the right disposition/character first. And if put in a club with the wrong cultural norms even a good girl can fall into bad ways

Cheers

[QUOTE=Pistons;2335527]Theo:

You give LR and Oase both an 8 for casting. And it seems this is not including service as you have a separate category for that. But I am guessing there is the usual aprox 8-10 lookers at Oase. Which is fair enough to give it an 8. Has LR really got the same amount of lookers?

Also you give Aca Gold the same score as you give Sharks. Both a 7! Now I truly wonder which Acapulco V girls have gone over? And who has not gone up to Great Palace. I assume Hannah and her group is still at Aca G. Maybe Lucy? If both of them are there, it is a big bonus, but there should be more numerous girls at such high quality to have that score. I recall my only Aca Gold visit 18 months ago, I gave it a complete no for lineup score in my review. So the lineup better have changed drastically to be on Sharks level![/QUOTE]Living Room had several lookers when I was there on the Saturday Night. Very good quality looks wise probably the best of my trip. ACA Gold had more girls there than usual currently with the Velbert location closed. ACA usually has about 30 percent worth it for me to room with, this last trip it was so packed every time I saw one that was up to my standard I just took her to the room. At one point that day every girl in the place was getting fucked except for 3.

Also my opinion may be skewed differently based on my taste which is I like the younger non tatted, non plastic, petite, innocent, girl next door looking girls. The girls who just start and have this look tend to work at ACA Gold, Oase, and living room, (before being promoted to Goldentime).

When I first started going to FKKs Sharks was my favorite but not so many girls there anymore. Also since I have been there so many times (more than 20 since Jan 2017) I keep seeing the same girls and it may be boring me.

Anyone have any clubs I didn't visit where the casting skews to my taste as stated above?

Salaam zusammen,

Is prostitution the only profession where experience is a liability rather than an advantage? Be honest.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2335816]Salaam zusammen,

Is prostitution the only profession where experience is a liability rather than an advantage? Be honest.[/QUOTE]It is traumatizing for some or fair to say most girls. I mean girls in FKK take about around 1000 different strangers penis each year, every year.

But I have came across some FKK girls who love being prostitute in FKK environment and one of them claim to tell her future husband about her job in FKK because it is such a big part of her life she said.

As a client side as a monger, it is priceless experience that echoes in eternity, which also secure us good sex life we men all dreamed of when we were young teen. Well that part of lustful dream came true for us mongers.

However, not only for girls, FKK prostitution environment mess with mongers head too because things that supposed to be limited experience become unlimited experience for us mongers as long as you pay entrance and fee per 30 min, then sky is the limit. Personally, I am loving such experiences.

[QUOTE=Theo110;2335722]Living Room had several lookers when I was there on the Saturday Night. Very good quality looks wise probably the best of my trip. ACA Gold had more girls there than usual currently with the Velbert location closed. ACA usually has about 30 percent worth it for me to room with, this last trip it was so packed every time I saw one that was up to my standard I just took her to the room. At one point that day every girl in the place was getting fucked except for 3.

Also my opinion may be skewed differently based on my taste which is I like the younger non tatted, non plastic, petite, innocent, girl next door looking girls. The girls who just start and have this look tend to work at ACA Gold, Oase, and living room, (before being promoted to Goldentime).

When I first started going to FKKs Sharks was my favorite but not so many girls there anymore. Also since I have been there so many times (more than 20 since Jan 2017) I keep seeing the same girls and it may be boring me.

Anyone have any clubs I didn't visit where the casting skews to my taste as stated above?[/QUOTE]You are looking for the same thing than me and it is difficult to find, like you say always the same girls around. Try your chance in any Starbucks: it is working for me but only in China where the things are quite easier for the white guys.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2335200]It's very interesting that people who say prostitution is bad for women are either the women who never worked as a prostitute (and thus actually understood the benefits of prostitution) or the men who has something to gain by saying that (eg some politicians or lawyers). Of course there are some exceptions that prove the norm.[/QUOTE]For me, better for women to never try this bad job, but some are ready for anything for money, you can see some changing for money, and guys need sex, even in hypocrite religion.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2335527]Theo:

You give LR and Oase both an 8 for casting. And it seems this is not including service as you have a separate category for that. But I am guessing there is the usual aprox 8-10 lookers at Oase. Which is fair enough to give it an 8. Has LR really got the same amount of lookers?

Also you give Aca Gold the same score as you give Sharks. Both a 7! Now I truly wonder which Acapulco V girls have gone over? And who has not gone up to Great Palace. I assume Hannah and her group is still at Aca G. Maybe Lucy? If both of them are there, it is a big bonus, but there should be more numerous girls at such high quality to have that score. I recall my only Aca Gold visit 18 months ago, I gave it a complete no for lineup score in my review. So the lineup better have changed drastically to be on Sharks level![/QUOTE]I cannot agree that LR has good casting optically, it is OK, only good point I can say about LR is amazing service for just 50 euro 30 min session and girls being more younger than other clubs. But optically, it is OK level, no stunner at LR.

Oase is the one I am not sure about. Due to extreme upsell, I only went once to Oase, but come to think about it, there were some stunner level girl optically like at palace and Artemis. Only few, but I saw and went with them in Oase, so maybe Oase is like palace and Artemis where there are few stunners in line up? Most are plastic at Artemis, but underneath them and between, there are real stunners in both palace and Artemis.

[QUOTE=Theo110;2335722](before being promoted to Goldentime).[/QUOTE]For girls maybe GT is a promotion, but I am not so sure. For guys it is a demotion having to go there nowadays.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2335939]For girls maybe GT is a promotion, but I am not so sure. For guys it is a demotion having to go there nowadays.[/QUOTE]I only went to GT once in January 2017. When I went on the FKK tour service trip. The guide and other guests hyped the place up big time. "They said Its the best club, blah blah". I did find one girl and have one great session. However the place was packed to the rafters with men. There was not any place to sit or enjoy anything. Most of the girls were heavily tatted, tons of makeup, plastic surgery everywhere. It made me uncomfortable. I Wanted out. The guide kept going back multiple times during that trip instead I just decided to stay in the hotel room, sleep in, and meet them later at another club. I thought maybe my experience was based on just a very busy day at the club but from other reports my experience seems typical.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2335915]I cannot agree that LR has good casting optically, it is OK, only good point I can say about LR is amazing service for just 50 euro 30 min session and girls being more younger than other clubs. But optically, it is OK level, no stunner at LR.[/QUOTE]In your opinion, who is the best looking girl at Living Room? And what number would you give her for optics and for service?

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2333164]Pessimist's post offers some perspective. Financial priorities matter: [URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?3172-FKK-Mainhattan-Frankfurt&p=2325359&viewfull=1#post2325359[/URL].

Income is only one variable. All things being equal, a single, childless bachelors who are approaching retirement can spend more money on luxuries such as mongering. Stage of life also matters too (I. E. Whether one will soon receive an inheritance from parents). I recently heard of one monger in his 50's who is dumping large sums into the coffers of his FKK wife. This monger in his 50's reportedly told his friends "I can sell my flat, because I do not have any kids to hand it down to. And I can't take that money with me". The implication is that he could blow through his money and live life to the fullest..[/QUOTE]When I was in b-school, I interviewed with a management consultancy. The case study involved what should a credit card company do? It turned out that the stable income earning, high credit score customers who pay their balance every month were money losing for the company, as they never roll any balances, and in fact the card issuer ends up providing free credit to them for a large portion of the year (from the time of their purchases to the time of their payment every month). At the same time, the bad Fico score, low income customers who have massive balances on several cards are also not good customers, as there is a real risk that many of them may default and collection is a huge problem. The best customers for the banks and card issuers were the middle range, OK income customers with expensive habits who perpetually have large balances, are financially not truly savvy even if they think they are, paying at 16% rate forever and not being smart enough to realize they are being fleeced.

One girl I was banging for payment and gifts (not an FKK girl) once asked me how much money I make or what's my net worth or something along those lines. I asked "why do you care, the only thing that should matter to you is if I have enough money to give your few hundred dollar payment". She reconsidered that statement and agreed with me.

From the perspective of any WG, the best customers are not the high net, fiscally prudent men. They are the equivalent of the high income customers of bank who always pay off the balance at the end of the month. The best customers for WGs are the men who make a hundred to 120 grand a year but spend 40 of that on prostitutes and clubs. If the WG snares enough such men as her regulars, her own career in the club is made.

[QUOTE=EscapeArtist;2336136]In your opinion, who is the best looking girl at Living Room? And what number would you give her for optics and for service?[/QUOTE]Exotic type girl, I like Rose. Very sportive body, she claim she works out and I believe her by looking at her body, small face, somehow bit oriental though she is 100% Hungarian, very structured face with big eye, long neck and all natural fit body and really good service.

White type girl: I liked this blonde girl from Romania. I cannot recall her name, most of time, I do not bother to remember or sometimes even ask her name, but she is natural blonde, beautiful natural breast, quite big breast, shaped nice, she is white Romanian blonde, no tattoo, apparently law student and good service. Once I told Sirioja this before and he mentioned couple of names. Good service.

Another white type girl: It was one of the sister, I think and they do not lookalike. She was Romanian who was introduced to by one of the poster here, I will not say his name for his privacy, but he is welcome to jump in if he read this post. She was also natural body, blonde, but I think this one is colored blonde. Good service.

However, I do not think LR is stunner club optically, you do get lucky once in awhile, but it is not same level of stunner you find like in palace or Artemis in early 2010's. I think LR is more younger, natural girls, with limited or no tattoo and they provide good service for just 50 euro per 30 min, you go loner it even get much better. It is only club you will get DFK that easily in 50 euro 30 min session. I think LR serve me as this kinda club.

GT on the other end, I found bit more stunner and level of stunner is same level that you would find in Artemis and palace, but problem is they are booked mostly whole day, so hard to get them into room. And GT clearly has over crowded issues of mongers.

It is odd thing to say, but oddly, I also find Oceans to be best optic stunner to be possibly found club in nrw, it is close to center, and is upsell club, but again more beautiful girls get drawn to the club where they can maximize their superior beauty to other girls, so they tend to gather more to near city center upsell club? This is something I began to notice.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2335915]there are real stunners in both palace and Artemis.[/QUOTE]Can I ask when you were last at each of Palace and Artemis? I find on ISG, at least in the Pattaya forum, there are so many frequent posters who have strong opinions of a club but when you read between the lines you find out they have not been to that club or even Pattaya in 2 years or only went once or twice ever to that club.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2336216]Can I ask when you were last at each of Palace and Artemis? I find on ISG, at least in the Pattaya forum, there are so many frequent posters who have strong opinions of a club but when you read between the lines you find out they have not been to that club or even Pattaya in 2 years or only went once or twice ever to that club.[/QUOTE]Well Palace last February, been there since 2015, I make one to three trips per year to Germany just for FKK. Usually each trip ranging from minimum 5 FKK days to 10 FKK days, max was 14 FKK days. During trip, I go to FKK everyday. This FKK trips began since 2009 when I first discover FKK Artemis.

My last visit to Artemis was 2015, went from 2009 till 2015, I stopped from 2015 due to lack of stunner in line up, switch to Hessen and nrw. I thought I will never return to Artemis, but this late summer, I am returning to Artemis and Artemis only trip to see if things changed back to how it used to be in early 2010's.

Is this going to turn into another one has not been enough to FKK, or I am more experienced in FKK than you or Pattaya as you mention etc debate? LOL. I mean I am fly in monger and I cannot go everyday from here to German FKK man. It is so for many fly in mongers posters here too, I fly 12 hours man just for FKK.

Let this lounge and chat be liberal, instead of pointing fingers at other people will you? I mean we are just chatting here, not debating in court room pointing finger at each other as you do like in Pattaya forum or this forum or whatever. So what if someone has been once and he has opinion about club, I just read it and I may learn something fresh from him. I think everyone is entitled to their opinion about clubs or place and I am glad to listen to his opinion.

Like there are clubs I only been once. Like Oase and Globe, but even with those two clubs, I do have my own opinion too, can't I have one?

[QUOTE=Pistons;2335939]For girls maybe GT is a promotion, but I am not so sure. For guys it is a demotion having to go there nowadays.[/QUOTE]GT is just the best business for girls in Germany. A Hungarian from Sharks, real fire in bed, prefers GT business than everything for 50 at Sharks with night clients there, and she asked for pleasure in bed. A really bloody room with her, she screamed when she saw my Hanibal Lecter face. LR girls who are now at GT, seem happy about their new business, even those who said they didn't like GT when they were at LR, but money talk and change girls, only Amira preferred to stay at LR. Even German Mio touring at Globe, regret GT, but she can t work anymore because she doesn't want to register.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2336227]Let this lounge and chat be liberal, instead of pointing fingers at other people will you? I mean we are just chatting here, not debating in court room pointing finger at each other as you do like in Pattaya forum or this forum or whatever. So what if someone has been once and he has opinion about club, I just read it and I may learn something fresh from him. I think everyone is entitled to their opinion about clubs or place and I am glad to listen to his opinion.[/QUOTE]I was not pointing fingers at you specifically but you actually proved the point of my post. Making comments on how great a place is when you haven't been there in 4 years imo is ludicrous. Met a guy who told me and McA how great Brazil is then we find out he hadn't been for 8 years. Met another guy who told me Dubrovnik was the best then we find out he last visited 20+ years ago! How relevant is that info to the current scene?

The problem with posting information that is not current is that many guys who read these posts are not as knowledgeable as you are. They may only have a couple of days in Germany. If you post outdated information they may rely on your post to go to a specific club that used to be good but no longer is good.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2336442]I was not pointing fingers at you specifically but you actually proved the point of my post. Making comments on how great a place is when you haven't been there in 4 years imo is ludicrous. Met a guy who told me and McA how great Brazil is then we find out he hadn't been for 8 years. Met another guy who told me Dubrovnik was the best then we find out he last visited 20+ years ago! How relevant is that info to the current scene?

The problem with posting information that is not current is that many guys who read these posts are not as knowledgeable as you are. They may only have a couple of days in Germany. If you post outdated information they may rely on your post to go to a specific club that used to be good but no longer is good.[/QUOTE]There is a lot of logic and truth in what you say but it is a bit tricky.

Ideally, yes it is true that if members who make comments on specific girls and clubs would disclose some additional info such as when they last visited, how many times they have been with that girl or at that club etc, it would be immensely helpful. But that is something up to each member. This forum remains one where we all write on a voluntary basis, and it is probably better to write too much than to write too little. A forum where rules are so strict and one has to put boilerplate legalese around fun reports and expresses views may lead to reduced participation and we all agree that's not a good outcome.

There is a strong dose of caveat emptor in these scenarios. Any experienced and sensible monger would read multiple reports, do a lot of research and also keep in mind that there is a degree of uncertainty and randomness in his choice. No one report can guarantee anything - - not even multiple recent and well informed reports can. His taste may well be different from that of the writers whose advice he followed, for example.

If the monger is a newbie and did not do enough research and followed a single report that happened to be outdated and has a bad experience, I say tough luck but that is also a valuable lesson and a good thing. He would learn the value of proper due diligence and would be careful in the future.

Optimist wrote a report 3 days ago about Sharks. He went earlier in the day and immediately several members pulled him up that he went at a bad time and was misleading. My point, even if the report is so real time and came from a well traveled monger as him, there is still context around each report. Any experienced man would know this when following anonymous advice and recommendations on internet. Or he should. This is true for mongering tips and anything else on internet.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2336278]GT is just the best business for girls in Germany. A Hungarian from Sharks, real fire in bed, prefers GT business than everything for 50 at Sharks with night clients there, and she asked for pleasure in bed. A really bloody room with her, she screamed when she saw my Hanibal Lecter face. LR girls who are now at GT, seem happy about their new business, even those who said they didn't like GT when they were at LR, but money talk and change girls, only Amira preferred to stay at LR. Even German Mio touring at Globe, regret GT, but she can t work anymore because she doesn't want to register.[/QUOTE]I fucked Mio last week in Globe. She liked my 260 Euro instead of 100 Euro for an hour at GT. And she told me, that she is very happy with the Swiss guys at Globe.

But you are right, she told me, that she also liked GT with the garden and with the friendly and generous Dutchmen (it's a big market at the border, there are some people, who underestimate that fact).

And Amira (and Nelly) at LR, yes they make big money, because sometimes they have clients with 5-10 hour bookings.

But in the end, good Girls must make more money in Globe than GT or LR or Sharks, because of the prices (despite the new discount fuck without kisses at Globe).

(Maybe I don't know every tax regulation).

[QUOTE=MrHo;2336188]Exotic type girl, I like Rose. Very sportive body, she claim she works out and I believe her by looking at her body, small face, somehow bit oriental though she is 100% Hungarian, very structured face with big eye, long neck and all natural fit body and really good service.

White type girl: I liked this blonde girl from Romania. I cannot recall her name, most of time, I do not bother to remember or sometimes even ask her name, but she is natural blonde, beautiful natural breast, quite big breast, shaped nice, she is white Romanian blonde, no tattoo, apparently law student and good service. Once I told Sirioja this before and he mentioned couple of names. Good service.

Another white type girl: It was one of the sister, I think and they do not lookalike. She was Romanian who was introduced to by one of the poster here, I will not say his name for his privacy, but he is welcome to jump in if he read this post. She was also natural body, blonde, but I think this one is colored blonde. Good service.

However, I do not think LR is stunner club optically, you do get lucky once in awhile, but it is not same level of stunner you find like in palace or Artemis in early 2010's. I think LR is more younger, natural girls, with limited or no tattoo and they provide good service for just 50 euro per 30 min, you go loner it even get much better. It is only club you will get DFK that easily in 50 euro 30 min session. I think LR serve me as this kinda club..[/QUOTE]Maybe Luana now Florentina at GT, for your blond, white skin and masterpiece tits. Never heard of sisters at LR.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2336148]The best customers for WGs are the men who make a hundred to 120 grand a year but spend 40 of that on prostitutes and clubs[/QUOTE]Spending a third of their gross income on WGs? There are even more extreme examples than this. Someone who makes 50 grand a year can spend 80 grand per year on prostitutes. It can be done by liquidating all assets, (property, investments, inheritances, bank accounts) and then going on a 5-20 year spending spree.

The monger who I heard about is a number cruncher and the frugal type. Prior to falling for his current FKK wife, he was exclusively a 50 EUR guy. From what I heard, he has flirted the idea with selling off everything and depleting the nest egg. Given his frugal lifestyle, he believes he can subsist on his state pension. I suspect he would even be willing move to a country with lower cost of living for retirement. I will not pass judgement. I do not know what men's life circumstances are. And I cannot argue with his primary point, which is he cannot take that money with him to the grave. And he has nobody to leave that money to.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2336442]I was not pointing fingers at you specifically but you actually proved the point of my post. Making comments on how great a place is when you haven't been there in 4 years imo is ludicrous. Met a guy who told me and McA how great Brazil is then we find out he hadn't been for 8 years. Met another guy who told me Dubrovnik was the best then we find out he last visited 20+ years ago! How relevant is that info to the current scene?

The problem with posting information that is not current is that many guys who read these posts are not as knowledgeable as you are. They may only have a couple of days in Germany. If you post outdated information they may rely on your post to go to a specific club that used to be good but no longer is good.[/QUOTE]OK as for Artemis, it is fair enough. I stopped going there in 2015 and switch to Hessen, then I mixed land in Frankfurt, then move on to nrw region via ice train in one trip, doing FKK in both regions. I did so because stunners in line up of Artemis began to disappear from 2014 ish and 2015 visit made me, OK what am I doing here, then kept distance.

However, I do have good knowledge of how Artemis works, I mean I went there rapidly from 2009 till 2015 spending around 10 k euro per trip just for girls including entrance. As for recent trend, this is something I do not know though what I am seeking to find out is if it went back to more or less how it was line up wise. Meaning, mostly plastic older monsters, but you do find few stunner level beautiful girls between those monster girls.

Either way, I think keeping lounge and chat more liberal place is better for each one of us, if some post may not suit you, just skip it. Because administrations do filter many posts here and we do not need more self volunteer police or administrators I think.

All in all, Artemis seems to catch up with line up recently by looking at recent report and I am glad I am going back this late summer to try it out once again. It was my first FKK I visited, so a lot of memories there. As for upsell, it seems it got stronger, but Artemis was always upsell club, it is just that after major police raid and false indictment of owner of Artemis, and with new law, management got more weak on grip over girls because I think management is bit scared and they do not want another such police raid again. After all, that police raid happened originating from one of the girl working there tipping information to police, which turned out to be mostly false accusation.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2336530]Maybe Luana now Florentina at GT, for your blond, white skin and masterpiece tits. Never heard of sisters at LR.[/QUOTE]Maybe, she has classic beauty look. Supposed to be law student in Romania, she says. And yes, white skin and master piece natural tits, good right size big and all natural, I think she had zero tattoo. I took her and rose together because I kinda liked white skin natural blonde girl and tanned sportive fit body exotic Hungarian rose together sucking my dick. It was nice view under morning light as I kept the curtain open a bit.

Never saw her in GT though.

I had girl named not Florentina I think, but Fiorentina who worked in GT, she also worked in Artemis with name Coco. She supposed to be half Greek and Albanian from cologne. She was also real exotic beauty who looked like she is half Arab and half white and half Mexican and half white. Maybe Florentina and Fiorentina is different girl? In FKK, I never bother too much with their fake names especially they often move around in clubs to clubs.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2336611]OK as for Artemis, it is fair enough. I stopped going there in 2015 and switch to Hessen, then I mixed land in Frankfurt, then move on to nrw region via ice train in one trip, doing FKK in both regions. I did so because stunners in line up of Artemis began to disappear from 2014 ish and 2015 visit made me, OK what am I doing here, then kept distance.

However, I do have good knowledge of how Artemis works, I mean I went there rapidly from 2009 till 2015 spending around 10 k euro per trip just for girls including entrance. As for recent trend, this is something I do not know though what I am seeking to find out is if it went back to more or less how it was line up wise. Meaning, mostly plastic older monsters, but you do find few stunner level beautiful girls between those monster girls.

Either way, I think keeping lounge and chat more liberal place is better for each one of us, if some post may not suit you, just skip it. Because administrations do filter many posts here and we do not need more self volunteer police or administrators I think..[/QUOTE]Four year old experience are just that. Stale and useless in a field where six months is an eternity.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2336650]Maybe, she has classic beauty look. Supposed to be law student in Romania, she says. And yes, white skin and master piece natural tits, good right size big and all natural, I think she had zero tattoo. I took her and rose together because I kinda liked white skin natural blonde girl and tanned sportive fit body exotic Hungarian rose together sucking my dick. It was nice view under morning light as I kept the curtain open a bit.

Never saw her in GT though.

I had girl named not Florentina I think, but Fiorentina who worked in GT, she also worked in Artemis with name Coco. She supposed to be half Greek and Albanian from cologne. She was also real exotic beauty who looked like she is half Arab and half white and half Mexican and half white. Maybe Florentina and Fiorentina is different girl? In FKK, I never bother too much with their fake names especially they often move around in clubs to clubs.[/QUOTE]Not so sure ex Luana LR who moved to GT, becoming Florentina, is really natural blond, but natural masterpiece tits, milky skin and no big tattoos, at least she is natural beauty. Romanian. She moved to GT on 2018, like some of other LR girls, but Rose still at LR.

[QUOTE=Menter;2336487]I fucked Mio last week in Globe. She liked my 260 Euro instead of 100 Euro for an hour at GT. And she told me, that she is very happy with the Swiss guys at Globe.

But you are right, she told me, that she also liked GT with the garden and with the friendly and generous Dutchmen (it's a big market at the border, there are some people, who underestimate that fact).

And Amira (and Nelly) at LR, yes they make big money, because sometimes they have clients with 5-10 hour bookings.

But in the end, good Girls must make more money in Globe than GT or LR or Sharks, because of the prices (despite the new discount fuck without kisses at Globe).

(Maybe I don't know every tax regulation).[/QUOTE]I wrote GT is best business for girls in Germany, better than LR where I often saw Amira or Nelly not busy, better than Sharks where girls leaving, complain about everything for only 50 , clients and at night, but of course can t compete with Globe with 130/30 mn, 100 for CIM and 200 for anal, 4 times more than at GT. Guys in Zurich are even ready to pay 280 for 30 mn with a really average and not so fresh look at Aphrodisia, when can sometimes find fresh beauties for 50 or 100 in Germany. But on average, for looks and level in bed, Globe is the highest level I know for girls.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2336597]Spending a third of their gross income on WGs? There are even more extreme examples than this. Someone who makes 50 grand a year can spend 80 grand per year on prostitutes. It can be done by liquidating all assets, (property, investments, inheritances, bank accounts) and then going on a 5-20 year spending spree.

The monger who I heard about is a number cruncher and the frugal type. Prior to falling for his current FKK wife, he was exclusively a 50 EUR guy. From what I heard, he has flirted the idea with selling off everything and depleting the nest egg. Given his frugal lifestyle, he believes he can subsist on his state pension. I suspect he would even be willing move to a country with lower cost of living for retirement. I will not pass judgement. I do not know what men's life circumstances are. And I cannot argue with his primary point, which is he cannot take that money with him to the grave. And he has nobody to leave that money to.[/QUOTE]Yes of course. I was talking about what type of customers would be good for working girls. I did not say that a monger can only spend a third of his income on WGs. As you said, one can sell his house and kidneys to appease a girl. Those would be extremes but such men exist. The presence of such diversity is what makes humanity interesting.

But the point I was making was this: a card company has s lot of information about potential applicants when they decide who to give a new card to; they know how much profit or loss they are likely to make for each income and FICO bracket based on past patterns. A WG would not have such visibility into the affairs and finances of her customers. But if by some stroke she did gain such visibility, she should be focusing on a some specific subsets who are likely to be the most profitable to her.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2336720]Not so sure ex Luana LR who moved to GT, becoming Florentina, is really natural blond, but natural masterpiece tits, milky skin and no big tattoos, at least she is natural beauty. Romanian. She moved to GT on 2018, like some of other LR girls, but Rose still at LR.[/QUOTE]One thing I noticed about LR is younger line up and also zero or very few limited tattoos and excellent service with no upsell. Line up has good looking girls, but not what I call stunner is the down side. It is good day shift club, so I go when I am flying out from duss in late afternoon.

People often go to LR after GT due to discount, but for me I go to Oceans when GT fails me for line up quality. As upsell as Oceans is, line up has one or two stunner level beauty if lucky and so far never failed me as back up night shift club. It is a proof that it is always better when a city has several clubs because in Berlin, if Artemis fails me for line up. I am stuck in one place with nobody whom I really want to go to room with.

Hi all,

Great forum. Like a lot of you I have visited a few FKK in some recent trips to Germany. My brief reviews are as follows.

Artemis Berlin. By far the nicest FKK I have visited. The talent present was amazing as was the food, choice of free beverages and different rooms. I really like how it was split level and the larger pool area downstairs. On my list its the only FKK I would recommend to friends to date.

The Palace. Frankfurt. I visited the Palace as it was located nearby and visited in the evening. There were definitely some great looking women here as well. What stood out for me was how much the bar bill was at the end of the night and how present the cute cleaner girls were in their whites going in and out of every area. Very small club, from what I read on this board, not a favorite, but I honestly had a good time. Also the only club where I chatted with other guys just to shoot the shit which was fun.

The Paradise. Stuttgart. Wow where to start, this club was just awful! Do not go here. The place was just full of smoke, bored, money hungry women who will pester you even in quiet areas. It was not a fun experience, just basically women wanting money. Food was scarce too. The only plus was a cigar room / tent with a TV to watch the news.

What I was hoping to hear from you regulars or which the reviews are great is for a Sunday in early July at either Oase or Sharks. I hear Oase has a free shuttle and that Sharks is accessible as well from transit. I love young women into anal and plan to enjoy 5 sessions in my afternoon / evening romp. Any advice would be great. For me I prefer a large selection of women and decent atmosphere without pushy sales pitch from women.

Thanks! Also anyone around July 7th?

[QUOTE=Akibono;2336667]Four year old experience are just that. Stale and useless in a field where six months is an eternity.[/QUOTE]I agree for the exact lineup, but as for club cultures and club tendency, I may disagree.

Like for instance, Artemis always has been more night time club with shift begin to slowly coming in at around 5:30 PM to 8 PM and around 8 PM is the peak of girls coming in for the night, also original tendency was that line up tend to be diverse with heavy concentration of pro girls who are bit older because Artemis requite you to work somewhere before joining the club, but you did tend to find few really young stunner level beauty between / underneath those pro tattooed up older girls, but these young beauties began fading out around 2014 ish and gone in 2015, since then it kept me out, food is crap in Artemis, massage is good and I do miss Haci who passed away after working in Artemis on the way home in train with heart attack RIP, and after the police raid, the management began losing control over girls so upsell got worst etc etc.

So I think, club culture and tendency do not change, but line up may improve, which you cannot know because Artemis is in and out club, beside some older pro girls who has been there for years, Artemis has rapid exchange of girls especially during summer season to keep lineup numbers because it is big club, so line up cannot be precise unless it is reported on monthly basis, but again, what important is tendency of club culture and not exact line up because that is only known by calling reception even then she cannot tell you every single girls who are present there for next few days or so.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2337008]One thing I noticed about LR is younger line up and also zero or very few limited tattoos and excellent service with no upsell. Line up has good looking girls, but not what I call stunner is the down side. It is good day shift club, so I go when I am flying out from duss in late afternoon.

People often go to LR after GT due to discount, but for me I go to Oceans when GT fails me for line up quality. As upsell as Oceans is, line up has one or two stunner level beauty if lucky and so far never failed me as back up night shift club. It is a proof that it is always better when a city has several clubs because in Berlin, if Artemis fails me for line up. I am stuck in one place with nobody whom I really want to go to room with.[/QUOTE]When was your last visit at LR? German Sara was full tattooed, Ruby and Nelly have many. Reina and Georgi are not really kissing, many GND on my last visits, but better than Dolce Vita where I didn't see Amira or another one looks. LR is now usually empty on day and weekdays. On some times, I asked to LR desk for discount ticket to move to GT, 95 € for both. Not sure new girls are on same level than Daria or Jeni. Ro or Melissa. Bu, even brunette Anastasia is high skill for BJ and Eva is intense fire in bed, but lack of charm and elegance now there.

Other than GT and LR, which clubs have complementary beer during all hours the club is open.

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2337117]Other than GT and LR, which clubs have complementary beer during all hours the club is open.[/QUOTE]Samya and Babylon. Finca, Mainhattan and World with full entry price.

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2337117]Other than GT and LR, which clubs have complementary beer during all hours the club is open.[/QUOTE]Samya though it may not be all day, Bernd's & Babylon.

I'm not a beer guy but IIRC Sixsens, PSR, and Mondial.

[QUOTE=Downandup;2337313]Samya though it may not be all day, Bernd's & Babylon.[/QUOTE]Babylon Elsdorf for sure whole day, PHG in bottle like GT or LR. I don't know why but GT bar is always surprised when I ask for hot cacao, now they are used at LR but not hot enough, so not tasty. Girls were looking at me drinking milk at World where also free beer, I think they see more beer drinking guys, than milk.

I've been only at oase in Frankfurt, many times. I like it very much. Now I'm planning to try munich area, closest to Italy.

I'd like to know your opinions about munich fkks, who worth a visit.

[QUOTE=Arkiloko;2337341]I've been only at oase in Frankfurt, many times. I like it very much. Now I'm planning to try munich area, closest to Italy.

I'd like to know your opinions about munich fkks, who worth a visit.[/QUOTE]Go to Wellcum. At close to Tarvisio / Udinese, or Switzerland. Many Italians drive to Zurich through Gottard.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2336884]But the point I was making was this: a card company has s lot of information about potential applicants when they decide who to give a new card to; they know how much profit or loss they are likely to make for each income and FICO bracket based on past patterns. A WG would not have such visibility into the affairs and finances of her customers. But if by some stroke she did gain such visibility, she should be focusing on a some specific subsets who are likely to be the most profitable to her.[/QUOTE]WGs can gain visibility into many facets of a monger's life. Therefore WGs can employ the same screening tactics that a Nigerian romance scammer would employ to identify vulnerable victims on online dating sites. Here are three ways she can gain insight below.

Mongers reveal details about their lives to WGs. Certain tragic life circumstances will force people to re-evaluate their lives. For instance, lets take a 50 year old single bachelor with no children and a $1 M net worth as an example. If he is diagnosed with (or has just recovered from) a life threatening illness, he may come to the realization that there is no point in sitting on a pile of money. Such a man, who has been forced to confront his own mortality, is no longer financially planning for a 30 year old horizon.

If the WG notices the monger spending a disproportionate amount of his free time in the club, she can deduce that he likely does not have friends or family. If this isolation has been prolonged, the WG will not even need to monitor the monger over an ongoing period; it will be evident within a few minutes of meeting him, because he will not understand social norms or miss social cues. For instance, he might stare for excessively long periods. He might follow or stalk the WG and give off a "creepy" vibe without realizing it. A one minute conversation with this type of man seems like an eternity. Since these men have no friends to ground them in reality, these men often suffer from delusions and have a desperate need to see a romance with a WG that does not actually exist.

WGs can observe how the monger interacts with WGs. Does he come off as someone who seeks romantic connection with one WG? Or the type to want to bang every single WG in the club? In most cases, the former is the more desirable customer. A monger who makes only $50 K but is so obsessed with a WG that he is willing to give her every last cent is better than a monger who makes $500 K but is spreading his money between a 100 different WGs.

I have 2 days to wander from Hamburg to catch my flight home on the weekend. I'll have a car and don't mind exploring out of the way places. Might end up at Oase as I like their outdoors. But really open as to anything else.

Ideas? Thoughts?

My experience [URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?1088-Viagra&p=2337636&viewfull=1#post2337636.[/URL]

[URL]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-28/with-euro-marathon-in-sight-romania-isn-t-racing-with-bulgaria[/URL]

I do wonder if this growth in romanian living standards the past 13 years is what has fueled the expectations among romanian girls. But also how much the p6 industry has contributed to the growth in Romanian living standards.

Given its loose monetary policy with debt in foreign currencies, the Romanian leu could drop further this year, while the Bulgarian lev got to have become an expensive peg to hold up. Also seeing the Bulgarians failed the new euro banking demands this year. For one I have noticed a slight drop in Bulgarians in the FKK's as of late. It makes sense currency wise, but not in terms of living standards. Then again, if the living standard rise in Romania is heavily dependent on p6, it would all make sense. But Bulgaria is slacking behind, and if they want into the euro, they better step up their p6 game!

Croatia got to realize where the money lies too it seems!

[QUOTE=Wanking;2337644]My experience [URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?1088-Viagra&p=2337636&viewfull=1#post2337636.[/URL][/QUOTE]This sounds great! Thanks Wanking! Just ordered online, but I am a bit confused with their note: 90 tablets provide 30 servings. You wrote you take one big green pill every morning, but just to confirm, do you take any more of these tablets in a day to make it work?

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2337434]WGs can gain visibility into many facets of a monger's life. Therefore WGs can employ the same screening tactics that a Nigerian romance scammer would employ to identify vulnerable victims on online dating sites. Here are three ways she can gain insight below.

Mongers reveal details about their lives to WGs. Certain tragic life circumstances will force people to re-evaluate their lives. For instance, lets take a 50 year old single bachelor with no children and a $1 M net worth as an example. If he is diagnosed with (or has just recovered from) a life threatening illness, he may come to the realization that there is no point in sitting on a pile of money. Such a man, who has been forced to confront his own mortality, is no longer financially planning for a 30 year old horizon..[/QUOTE]It is depend on what mongers are looking for in FKK or related entities though.

I am only looking for great sex experiences and memories it brings in those places and working girls are nothing, but a beautiful meat holes that I can penetrate into 3 different holes, so I do not get drafted away with their emotional connection tactics simply because I am only looking for sexual lustful connection with working girls or in brothel like FKK, nothing more.

For me, FKK and other related services are memory collecting place for me, where I an gather among best sexual experience and lustful desire or even sexual dream into reality, that turn into memories which echoes in eternity. I would like to reach my old age and want to be satisfied with life and good sex life with many young beauties from all over the world is very important part of mans life to me.

It really is teenage lustful dreams coming into reality with modest cost, though I have been mongering since age 17 or 18. Good sex life is important part of mans life, at least to me and it is great in FKK you can achieve this without having any deep relation with girls, you can just fuck them in 3 holes, enjoy the sexual moment, pay reasonable amount and say good bye without any complications and may never see her again, then on to the next young beauty to fuck without complication or unwanted burden aftermath. Isn't it amazing we can do this?

However, those mongers who seek emotional connection with prostitutes in FKK or any brothel can lead to destructive outcome. Me, I just want to fuck them.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2337741][URL]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-28/with-euro-marathon-in-sight-romania-isn-t-racing-with-bulgaria[/URL]

I do wonder if this growth in romanian living standards the past 13 years is what has fueled the expectations among romanian girls. But also how much the p6 industry has contributed to the growth in Romanian living standards.

Given its loose monetary policy with debt in foreign currencies, the Romanian leu could drop further this year, while the Bulgarian lev got to have become an expensive peg to hold up. Also seeing the Bulgarians failed the new euro banking demands this year. For one I have noticed a slight drop in Bulgarians in the FKK's as of late. It makes sense currency wise, but not in terms of living standards. Then again, if the living standard rise in Romania is heavily dependent on p6, it would all make sense. But Bulgaria is slacking behind, and if they want into the euro, they better step up their p6 game!

Croatia got to realize where the money lies too it seems![/QUOTE]Polish girls used to have certain population in German FKK line up, but recently their numbers has been dramatically decreased to my disappointment because I loved polish blonde beauties. I imagine, their population in German FKK lineup decreased due to their nations and also their economical improvement.

Having said that, knowing nothing last forever, I wonder if Romanian domination in German FKK line up changes in near future as their nation advance economically? Or will their nation ever advance in near future of let say next 20 years?

If so, I wonder which nation will replace domination of German FKK line up? I am hoping for some eastern European countries because their beauty level match my expectation of beauty, but only country I can think of that may struggle economically and also may move close to EU for political reason is Ukraine. I hope this will happen because Ukrainian girls are among my favorite for beauty level, how they behave and also in bed, they are wild contrary to their classic beautiful appearance.

EU, please make some kind of Visa arrangement with Ukraine ASAP.

I am going on holiday to Germany and would appreciate your wisdom.

I've been to FKK Goldentime in Vienna Austria and it was amazing. I was a little too timid for full service (crazy. I know) but enjoyed the eye candy and the 3 awesome BJ's, with one giving me some GFE with it.

Heading to Germany this time and will be in several places but just for one day. I fly into Stuttgart. And along the way will also be in Ulm, Villingen-Schwenningen and Munich. I will be flying out of Frankfurt.

1) Are the FKK places in the small towns worth it even?

2) Do all the places in Munich suck as some of the comments here and in other forums suggest?

3) Any advice on more GFE experience? Just ask for an hour? Ask up front?

I am planning on 2.300 euros on adult fun for probably 5 club visits. But maybe I'll get bored after a while. Who knows.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2337741][URL]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-28/with-euro-marathon-in-sight-romania-isn-t-racing-with-bulgaria[/URL]

I do wonder if this growth in romanian living standards the past 13 years is what has fueled the expectations among romanian girls. But also how much the p6 industry has contributed to the growth in Romanian living standards.

Given its loose monetary policy with debt in foreign currencies, the Romanian leu could drop further this year, while the Bulgarian lev got to have become an expensive peg to hold up. Also seeing the Bulgarians failed the new euro banking demands this year. For one I have noticed a slight drop in Bulgarians in the FKK's as of late. It makes sense currency wise, but not in terms of living standards. Then again, if the living standard rise in Romania is heavily dependent on p6, it would all make sense. But Bulgaria is slacking behind, and if they want into the euro, they better step up their p6 game!

Croatia got to realize where the money lies too it seems![/QUOTE]Remittances made up less than 3% of Romanian GDP.

[URL]https://countryeconomy.com/demography/migration/remittance/romania[/URL]

And mind you, sex workers are not the only demographic sending remittances back home when it comes to Romania.

I have no idea where you get this idea that P6 contributed so much to the overall living standards of Romania. If you have actual data for that claim, please show. Even if half of all remittances back into Romania came from sex workers, that accounts for roughly 1% of the nation's GDP per the link above.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2337882]Polish girls used to have certain population in German FKK line up, but recently their numbers has been dramatically decreased to my disappointment because I loved polish blonde beauties. I imagine, their population in German FKK lineup decreased due to their nations and also their economical improvement.

Having said that, knowing nothing last forever, I wonder if Romanian domination in German FKK line up changes in near future as their nation advance economically? Or will their nation ever advance in near future of let say next 20 years?

If so, I wonder which nation will replace domination of German FKK line up? I am hoping for some eastern European countries because their beauty level match my expectation of beauty, but only country I can think of that may struggle economically and also may move close to EU for political reason is Ukraine. I hope this will happen because Ukrainian girls are among my favorite for beauty level, how they behave and also in bed, they are wild contrary to their classic beautiful appearance.

EU, please make some kind of Visa arrangement with Ukraine ASAP.[/QUOTE]From the looks standpoint, like you, Ukranians get my vote too amongst all the EE WGs, but aren't they mostly (not all) even bigger liars and scamners without any sense of ethics than the Romanians? So far in my experience, Bulgarian WGs turned out to be the most honest providers and friends both inside and outside of the FKKs or brothels, never had a Bulgarian WG try to upsell or scam with me, never asked me to send her any money, many even took me to their parties or clubs without any money exchange just as a good friend with benefits, some still chit chats with me even after leaving the WG life LOL.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2337945]From the looks standpoint, like you, Ukranians get my vote too amongst all the EE WGs, but aren't they mostly (not all) even bigger liars and scamners without any sense of ethics than the Romanians? So far in my experience, Bulgarian WGs turned out to be the most honest providers and friends both inside and outside of the FKKs or brothels, never had a Bulgarian WG try to upsell or scam with me, never asked me to send her any money, many even took me to their parties or clubs without any money exchange just as a good friend with benefits, some still chit chats with me even after leaving the WG life LOL.[/QUOTE]Well, in FKK, they are mostly scammers in one way or another, so I got used to it. Some more worst than other, but once in a while we get lucky.

However, I do notice that 50 euro or 60 euro 30 min get it all sessions are extinct in most FKK. LR and GT is bit of exception, but with new laws installed, those golden days are over. Didn't we live such a great era of FKK till new law kicked in, we at least got BBBJ, DATY and fuck for standard price at least back then.

[QUOTE=Stressedoutsea;2337884]I am going on holiday to Germany and would appreciate your wisdom.

I've been to FKK Goldentime in Vienna Austria and it was amazing. I was a little too timid for full service (crazy. I know) but enjoyed the eye candy and the 3 awesome BJ's, with one giving me some GFE with it.

Heading to Germany this time and will be in several places but just for one day. I fly into Stuttgart. And along the way will also be in Ulm, Villingen-Schwenningen and Munich. I will be flying out of Frankfurt.

1) Are the FKK places in the small towns worth it even?

2) Do all the places in Munich suck as some of the comments here and in other forums suggest?

3) Any advice on more GFE experience? Just ask for an hour? Ask up front?

I am planning on 2.300 euros on adult fun for probably 5 club visits. But maybe I'll get bored after a while. Who knows.[/QUOTE]You have FKK Colosseum in Augsburg on the way between Stuttgart and Munich but I would deviate a bit and go to FKK Hawaii in Ingolstadt. My favourite in Munich!

[QUOTE=MrHo;2337882]Polish girls used to have certain population in German FKK line up, but recently their numbers has been dramatically decreased to my disappointment because I loved polish blonde beauties. I imagine, their population in German FKK lineup decreased due to their nations and also their economical improvement.

Having said that, knowing nothing last forever, I wonder if Romanian domination in German FKK line up changes in near future as their nation advance economically? Or will their nation ever advance in near future of let say next 20 years?

If so, I wonder which nation will replace domination of German FKK line up? I am hoping for some eastern European countries because their beauty level match my expectation of beauty, but only country I can think of that may struggle economically and also may move close to EU for political reason is Ukraine. I hope this will happen because Ukrainian girls are among my favorite for beauty level, how they behave and also in bed, they are wild contrary to their classic beautiful appearance..[/QUOTE]Corruption in Romania is still very high. As is it also in Bulgaria. Far more than it was in Poland 10-15 years ago. So that probably has an effect on this.

There already is a visa arrangement with Ukraine. But so far the Ukrainians are only allowed to work in Czech Rep and Poland. And not in Germany or Austria etc. I do wonder however if there are now Ukrainians to be found in places like Sexy Sauna in Prague because of this, as it is only 2 or 3 years since it started. I know Gdansk in Poland for example is full of Ukrainians trying to make a buck.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2337882]Having said that, knowing nothing last forever, I wonder if Romanian domination in German FKK line up changes in near future as their nation advance economically? Or will their nation ever advance in near future of let say next 20 years?[/QUOTE]In the past two years, Russian girls have flooded in to the London scene forcing out the Romanian, it could happen in Germany too. I just wish these girls would move to other towns around the country.

[QUOTE=Downandup;2338264]In the past two years, Russian girls have flooded in to the London scene forcing out the Romanian, it could happen in Germany too. I just wish these girls would move to other towns around the country.[/QUOTE]Not many Romanians left where I live too nowadays. At least among the top lookers. I suppose they still lead in total numbers though. Top lookers right now are mainly from Moldova here. But there has been a few Russians now and then also. And the Russians mainly tell the same story, they usually work in London. And the shift from rom / bul to mol / ru / ukr started about 3 years ago. I see many claim to be Ukrainians too, but personally I haven't met those yet. So it could be fake.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2337985]Corruption in Romania is still very high. As is it also in Bulgaria. Far more than it was in Poland 10-15 years ago. So that probably has an effect on this.

There already is a visa arrangement with Ukraine. But so far the Ukrainians are only allowed to work in Czech Rep and Poland. And not in Germany or Austria etc. I do wonder however if there are now Ukrainians to be found in places like Sexy Sauna in Prague because of this, as it is only 2 or 3 years since it started. I know Gdansk in Poland for example is full of Ukrainians trying to make a buck.[/QUOTE]I think this is where pimp or lover boys or some kind of platform is required to get these girls to German from their nation. Its not easy decision to make, so some kind of system is needed like there clearly is for Romania and Bulgaria. If they know they can make much more cash in Germany than in Poland etc. They will come, but further visa arrangement has to be agreed it seems.

[QUOTE=Downandup;2338264]In the past two years, Russian girls have flooded in to the London scene forcing out the Romanian, it could happen in Germany too. I just wish these girls would move to other towns around the country.[/QUOTE]So, US sanction on Russia seems to have affect in such area too it seems LOL. I welcome Russians, I was fortunate enough to be monger in Switzerland and also in eastern Europe also during 99 and early 2000's, so I know how good they are. In recent years, I was in Almaty to visit friends wedding and I had amazing time with white blonde Russian girls from Almaty. These Kazakh guys live well LOL.

I hope Russian girls will come to German FKK, but I think Visa will be also harder issue for Russian girls. Now and even in future. I do not see Germany and Russia getting along politically, so no easy visa.

As for now, my hope is Ukraine because only choice Ukraine has is to join underneath Russia or come closer to EU.

Ukraine and its people are wonderful people, I personally find, so I hope their nation will find the ways, and their nations young beauty find the way to German FKK for me to enjoy more of them. They are one of the best in bed!

[QUOTE=MrHo;2315728]

Money can be motivation for girls, but in case of AO, it is expected that there is some system to keep them there, it is not same as FKK. But I know of some girls who worked in AO clubs and now in FKK, so maybe it is to pay back debt or something, so it is part of contract to work in AO first, then once it is paid they are allowed to move on to better environment of FKK.

And it is because of AO clubs they changed the law and resulted in we FKK mongers are suffering with extra BBBJ hustling LOL![/QUOTE]

This is pure speculation, and unlikely speculation at that. If the intention was to target AO clubs the politicians would have singled out AO sex. But they didn't. They targeted BBBJ. They created a registration requirement. The AO clubs are a fraction of the overall commercial sex market. The law is across the board.

In a similar way the notion that AO club girls are trafficked or pimped more than others is also speculative. I seriously doubt the Romanian AO club girls were packed into bread trucks while the Romanian FKK girls flew in business class using their frequent flyer miles.

The guy produced a large number of fake reports without many visits. Why no one care or notice that. Look at his 300 posts in Sharks forum, none of them ever provides credible information.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2338283]I repeat only with exceptional girls which are a very small percentage of the Sharks lineup so I'm continually looking for and sessioning new girls as I have more or less exhausted the current fare at Sharks. In my quest I encountered, inter alia, Tina from Serbia. What a fun girl! DFK, DATY, BBBJ and CFS. She is great to speak with, has a sense of humor, talked dirty during sex and generally aimed to please. Highly recommended. 50/30.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=MrHo;2334544]Soon or later, authority may enforce cashless payment in brothels LOL.

I think prostitutes should be entitled to be tax exempted and tax free because actually what they do decrease crime rate, give energy to many men's lives, and take the gas out of stressful society for men and above all they sell dreams to men and make us feel complete as man in area of lust and desire. Prostitution as occupation is so underrated by society.[/QUOTE]I know of no evidence that -r a p i s t s- can suppress their violent behavior by seeing prostitutes. In fact prostitutes are a favorite target for serial killers. Counter to the myth, this is rarely because they see themselves as cleaning up society and punishing evil. They attack prostitutes because it's easy for a stranger to get them into a car and / or a helpless situation.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2337829]This sounds great! Thanks Wanking! Just ordered online, but I am a bit confused with their note: 90 tablets provide 30 servings. You wrote you take one big green pill every morning, but just to confirm, do you take any more of these tablets in a day to make it work?[/QUOTE]Apparently it varies from market to market. In the US they have a serving suggestion of 3 tabs, but in Europe its one tab. The guy in the store suggested I take the 3 tabs even the serving instruction was one. 3 tabs gave me too much energy and I couldn't sleep. Went back to the one tablet, and it seems to work well for me.

I recommend ease yourself in with one tablet per day. ID be interested to hear how they work out for you.

[QUOTE=JohnEllee;2338369]The guy produced a large number of fake reports without many visits. Why no one care or notice that. Look at his 300 posts in Sharks forum, none of them ever provides credible information.[/QUOTE]Board is rife with it. One whaco guy utilizing 10+ main pseudonyms. Another 20+ occasional pseudonyms on top of that. All welcome to PM me for further info.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2338371]I know of no evidence that -r a p i s t s- can suppress their violent behavior by seeing prostitutes. In fact prostitutes are a favorite target for serial killers. Counter to the myth, this is rarely because they see themselves as cleaning up society and punishing evil. They attack prostitutes because it's easy for a stranger to get them into a car and / or a helpless situation.[/QUOTE]Maybe in the 70's, 80's and 90's. But after the turn of the century, hardly any serial killer has killed a prostitute as far as I know. Schoolkids on the other hand! The main target these days.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2338656]Maybe in the 70's, 80's and 90's. But after the turn of the century, hardly any serial killer has killed a prostitute as far as I know. Schoolkids on the other hand! The main target these days.[/QUOTE]In most places, with advanced camera and face recognition software, there will be no more of serial cases like there used to be I hope.

However, I do think brothel or related services do decrease crime rates in many areas of crimes or violence simply because it feed mans natural born appetite called lust. We men need sex more than women.

I mean when I had great session in FKK, the last thing I want is argument or fight or hassle of any kind. I hope prostitution will be legalized in many area of world, so it will decrease crime rates and unwanted fuss between humans.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2338656]Maybe in the 70's, 80's and 90's. But after the turn of the century, hardly any serial killer has killed a prostitute as far as I know. Schoolkids on the other hand! The main target these days.[/QUOTE]It is a question of semantics. "Serial killer" is applied to those that killed over a longer period. When you refer to school shootings, the term may be mass murderer, school shooters, etc. At least in the US, many but not all school shootings were done by a student or students themselves. None of them are called serial killers however, in the normal sense of that phrase.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2338656]But after the turn of the century, hardly any serial killer has killed a prostitute as far as I know.[/QUOTE]That could be a good recruitment slogan for FKKs.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2337977]Well, in FKK, they are mostly scammers in one way or another, so I got used to it. Some more worst than other, but once in a while we get lucky.

However, I do notice that 50 euro or 60 euro 30 min get it all sessions are extinct in most FKK. LR and GT is bit of exception, but with new laws installed, those golden days are over. Didn't we live such a great era of FKK till new law kicked in, we at least got BBBJ, DATY and fuck for standard price at least back then.[/QUOTE]FKK you get now also but need to be tactful.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2338784]This is from the typical mainstream perspective: the girls are always the victims. .... The reality, when things go wrong, is that pimps and girls conspire to rip off customers. Yep, mongers are the victims, especially naive ones who are new from Asia and so on.[/QUOTE]No the reality in this particular case is that the girls are the victims. We're talking about forced prostitution here, not extorting more euros from a guy who has not enough balls to stand against the girl.

[QUOTE]The sin of FKK owners like Rudloff is principally one of [B]laziness[/B]. Instead of managing the girls themselves, they secretly outsource the recruitment and management to shadowy parties who are unaccountable and do not have the customers' interests in mind -- with predictable results.[/QUOTE]The sin of Rudloff is that he's an hypocrite, a liar and a scoundrer. You can't deny that prostitution has its bad sides.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2338842]Not saying that what they write here is not true, but that the story excludes any counterbalancing facts about prostitution[/QUOTE]There is a brief section near the end of the article that quotes Undine de Rivire from the sex workers association, and this provides some counterbalance.

[QUOTE=Apollyon;2338570]Board is rife with it. One whaco guy utilizing 10+ main pseudonyms. Another 20+ occasional pseudonyms on top of that. All welcome to PM me for further info.[/QUOTE]Sadly so. It is weird to think a guy might reply to himself using different handles, and even suggesting his own reports for Reports Of Distinction.

[blue]Report them.

Admin3[/blue]

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2338368]This is pure speculation, and unlikely speculation at that. If the intention was to target AO clubs the politicians would have singled out AO sex. But they didn't. They targeted BBBJ. They created a registration requirement. The AO clubs are a fraction of the overall commercial sex market. The law is across the board.

In a similar way the notion that AO club girls are trafficked or pimped more than others is also speculative. I seriously doubt the Romanian AO club girls were packed into bread trucks while the Romanian FKK girls flew in business class using their frequent flyer miles.[/QUOTE]New law was not only about BJ, but also about AO which is illegal, even still some clubs for this and many guys running for this.

Hello guys,

I plan a visit on next Wednesday.

I have been a regular to Living room.

Now I am thinking about to visit Sharks or other clubs near Frankfurt.

Appreciate if someone could suggest based on the recent LU.

Cheers.

[QUOTE=ShellPower;2339046]Hello guys,

I plan a visit on next Wednesday.

I have been a regular to Living room.

Now I am thinking about to visit Sharks or other clubs near Frankfurt.

Appreciate if someone could suggest based on the recent LU.

Cheers.[/QUOTE]Difficult to compare the LU from Shark vs LR on a Wednesday, probably 4 times more girls in Shark so 4 times more chances to be happy.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2338937]New law was not only about BJ, but also about AO which is illegal, even still some clubs for this and many guys running for this.[/QUOTE]New law was targeting mostly AO and BBBJ was the collateral damage to our suffering LOL. At least, we still get it after annoying negotiation of some kind.

I miss those days, when let go to the room for 50 euro and 30 min session guaranteed BBBJ without any negotiation. Only LR and GT where you can get this now, but soon or later, it will fade out I think, so I guess till 2017 was the best of FKK era before restriction. I do not think they will put it back to as it was, but I just hope they won't restrict it further.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2338656]Maybe in the 70's, 80's and 90's. But after the turn of the century, hardly any serial killer has killed a prostitute as far as I know. Schoolkids on the other hand! The main target these days.[/QUOTE]Sorry. Wrong again. For example this ongoing case where 10-16 prostitutes were killed and dumped in proximity in the last decade or so.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Island_serial_killer[/URL]

It is true, however, that the overall rate of serial murder seems to be on a decline, and thus there are fewer prostitute victims but also fewer victims of other kinds as well. The definition of serial murder has had the "cooling off period" criteria removed, and this removal of a psychological profile allows for radically different kinds of killers to now be counted. For example, gang members who act essentially as hit men are now counted as serial killers.

If there is a disproportionate decrease of prostitute victims, it's probably because serial killers who target prostitutes have a couple new factors that threaten their success. Serial killers in general are now claiming fewer victims, especially the sex crime type. First, DNA technology has been vastly improved. And second, street prostitution has been driven indoors in part thanks to the internet. But I've not seen a disproportionate decrease of victimization relative to the general population firmly established with numbers. Perhaps you have, and you can contribute that.

Regarding child victims of serial killers, "only" about 6% are younger than 10, and "only" about 20% are younger than 20.

[URL]https://www.vox.com/2016/12/2/13803158/serial-killers-victims-data[/URL]

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2338937]New law was not only about BJ, but also about AO which is illegal, even still some clubs for this and many guys running for this.[/QUOTE]The point was that the (not so) new law was not crafted to specifically target AO clubs as was claimed. It was crafted to apply to all FKKs and other forms of sex work. (Whether the politicians had sincere concern for sex workers, or rather he law was based on ideological theory, or pandering to the public, is another question worth considering.).

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2339171]The point was that the (not so) new law was not crafted to specifically target AO clubs as was claimed. It was crafted to apply to all FKKs and other forms of sex work. (Whether the politicians had sincere concern for sex workers, or rather he law was based on ideological theory, or pandering to the public, is another question worth considering.).[/QUOTE]I thought new law was to protect WGs health and also health of wives of clients. Many Germans go to AO, law don't seem to work everywhere.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2338656]Maybe in the 70's, 80's and 90's. But after the turn of the century, hardly any serial killer has killed a prostitute as far as I know. Schoolkids on the other hand! The main target these days.[/QUOTE]I think it was on beginning of 2016, a Sharks WG was killed in a hotel between Darmstadt and Frankfurt, by her in love and jealous client. Both died.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2339206]I think it was on beginning of 2016, a Sharks WG was killed in a hotel between Darmstadt and Frankfurt, by her in love and jealous client. Both died.[/QUOTE]Similar event happened I heard in parking plot of Dolce vita or some NRW club, client killed FKK girl and killed himself, it was supposed to be love story turned sour is what I heard.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2339157]New law was targeting mostly AO and BBBJ was the collateral damage to our suffering LOL. At least, we still get it after annoying negotiation of some kind.

I miss those days, when let go to the room for 50 euro and 30 min session guaranteed BBBJ without any negotiation. Only LR and GT where you can get this now, but soon or later, it will fade out I think, so I guess till 2017 was the best of FKK era before restriction. I do not think they will put it back to as it was, but I just hope they won't restrict it further.[/QUOTE]You don't seem to know much about level of FKK land since new law. Except maybe for very few clubs, but nothing changed for BJ and unfortunately same for AO sex in RTC, except maybe F39 Bochum. Good old BJ still standard, even in cheap Gold for only 40, where I tried 2 new girls for me, both sexy, both ate little terminator without asking anything, I proposed to one to finish in her mouth, because her pussy couldn't resist to my size, even she is 1,70, she asked 30 extra for CIM, I said: let s go, she sucks but found I was too long to finish, so she preferred to stop, so 2 BJ, 2 positions for sex with a super sexy girl, for only 40, but she is low level for sex, except for sucking and being super sexy. With second one, she was so lost after her whole shaking body orgasmus and told me she wanted to stay only 30 mn when we were already 35 mn, but she did let me finish, so more than 40 mn in room, I gave her 50 , she smiled and kissed. Same experience at World where I went with a supermodel, after her DATY orgasmus, she just wanted to give me pleasure, even she said I m a real sex machine, more powerful than in 20 s guys and she would not be able to work after me, like many say, but like most, she returned later.

On the other hand, some new girls at GT or LR are really not high level, for look or level in bed, kissing not always standard, not always natural BJ.

Never yet been to Germany but planning a trip soon. Could someone familiar with the FKK establishments in both cities, Berlin and Frankfurt, please compare and contrast the similarities and differences? Just looking for a very short summary for someone who has never yet experienced the FKKs in these two cities.

[QUOTE=LuckyNuts;2339887]Never yet been to Germany but planning a trip soon. Could someone familiar with the FKK establishments in both cities, Berlin and Frankfurt, please compare and contrast the similarities and differences? Just looking for a very short summary for someone who has never yet experienced the FKKs in these two cities.[/QUOTE]For FKK experience, Frankfurt is miles ahead of Berlin. But exactly opposite for sight seeing and touristy stuff. For detail info, please RTFF.

Friends,

Anybody visited Park Sauna Residenz, Lohmar. Website seems to be interesting. Beautiful building and a nice surrounding.

www.Parksauna-residenz. De.

Which Frankfurt area club to go to during this heat wave?

Which club has good AC but the girls aren't abysmal?

If I were up north I would hit GT. Oase and World is supposed to have a pretty bad lineup as of late. Any gems (service, young and thin) at Mainhattan or Palace, which would make these clubs worth going to in the heat? Any other ideas? Otherwise maybe ill hit Sharks later than usual and try to get the girls to room in the pool! .

[QUOTE=Thampi62;2340018]Friends,

Anybody visited Park Sauna Residenz, Lohmar. Website seems to be interesting. Beautiful building and a nice surrounding.

www.Parksauna-residenz. De.[/QUOTE]That's a club for regulars. Mostly MILFs. Has a 'service club' reputation.

[QUOTE=Thampi62;2340018]Friends,

Anybody visited Park Sauna Residenz, Lohmar. Website seems to be interesting. Beautiful building and a nice surrounding.

www.Parksauna-residenz. De.[/QUOTE]Good foods with legendary pancake, retirement atmosphere, beautiful inside swimming pool, small garden. Exceptional Latvian 36 yo Lena for me on August 2013.

OK seems I was wrong regarding the killings. But in this environment, why the hell force the girls to sleep off campus with the nee regulation? Why have strict laws against brothels in other parts of the world forcing the industry underground? It doesn't make any sense to me.

[QUOTE=Thampi62;2340018]Friends,

Anybody visited Park Sauna Residenz, Lohmar. Website seems to be interesting. Beautiful building and a nice surrounding.

www.Parksauna-residenz. De.[/QUOTE]It's also called a seniors home in the German fora.

Of course its regular saunas she is referring to, places I often frequent on my down days from the sex clubs. [URL]https://youtu.be/K-ZJ4gH59YY[/URL].

[QUOTE=Wanking;2340222]Of course its regular saunas she is referring to, places I often frequent on my down days from the sex clubs. [URL]https://youtu.be/K-ZJ4gH59YY[/URL].[/QUOTE]I must say we also were positively shocked when we first walked into German FKK. For me, it was like wow such liberal heaven do exist in this world and back then lineup has quite few stunner level beauties, so it was teenage dream becoming reality for me.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2340121]Good foods with legendary pancake, retirement atmosphere, beautiful inside swimming pool, small garden. Exceptional Latvian 36 yo Lena for me on August 2013.[/QUOTE]Highly appreciated. Thinking that it is my future place to relax.

[QUOTE=Wanking;2340222]Of course its regular saunas she is referring to, places I often frequent on my down days from the sex clubs. [URL]https://youtu.be/K-ZJ4gH59YY[/URL].[/QUOTE]I suppose the rest of the world might learn from the Germans one day. And not just men.

So far a very good year just crossed the 25 girls line here at mid-year. Waaaay ahead of last years record setting pace. I thought it might be nice to summarize some of the best of the best worldwide. Happy to provide contact deets for any that strike your fancy.

Best Face. Tie. Honey Tokyo. Fortune London. Both 10 in the face for me.

Best Ass. Fortune London. No contest. Physically impossible and yet there it is.

Best Tits. Fortune London.

Best overall Optics. You guessed it Fortune London.

Most beautiful pussy. Tie. Natasha Tokyo. Simina Zurich (Globe).

Best DATY. Natasha Tokyo.

Best BBBJ. Rivetta London. No contest and I've had some great ones this year.

Best Kisser. Kate Zurich (Globe). But Cambria London, Natasha Tokyo, Kai Detroit were are great.

Best Mish. Tie. Rose Shanghai, Cambria London, Kai Detroit (mish kissing OMG!

Best Cowgirl. Fortune London (the optics OMG!

Best Doggie. Not sure. No standout.

Best 69 - Tie. Monica Linz. Natasha Tokyo.

Best FIV. Roxy LOS Angeles. (A sloppy mind blowing actual O).

Best mat play - June Tokyo. Hands down. A mat goddess.

Rest of year is looking good so this could change, but you see quite a few repeats in this list and I had only one mediocre experience this year. It is interesting to see some girls show up multiple times and most not at all even though they were great on balance.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2340939]So far a very good year just crossed the 25 girls line here at mid-year. Waaaay ahead of last years record setting pace. I thought it might be nice to summarize some of the best of the best worldwide. Happy to provide contact deets for any that strike your fancy.

Best Face. Tie. Honey Tokyo. Fortune London. Both 10 in the face for me.

Best Ass. Fortune London. No contest. Physically impossible and yet there it is.

Best Tits. Fortune London.

Best overall Optics. You guessed it Fortune London.

Most beautiful pussy. Tie. Natasha Tokyo. Simina Zurich (Globe).

Best DATY. Natasha Tokyo..[/QUOTE]So no German FKK was on your best list then LOL. Is it the decline of German FKK line up or you had better time else where. It has decline since early 2010's, this is for sure.

If you could give a URL for each of the London girls that would be awesome. I'll be there in about a week. Those are:

Fortune London.

Rivetta London.

Cambria London.

Thanks!

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2341035]If you could give a URL for each of the London girls that would be awesome. I'll be there in about a week. [/QUOTE]Those are:

Fortune London.

[URL]https://www.divaescort.com/girls/brunette-bayswater-fortune[/URL]

Rivetta London.

[URL]https://www.divaescort.com/girls/brunette-rivetta[/URL]

Cambria London.

[URL]https://www.divaescort.com/girls/brunette-bayswater-cambria[/URL]

Couple minor comments. I don't believe you can go wrong with any of them.

Rivetta has a kilo or two more on her ass than in the photoshop. In no way off putting but a more woman than a girl figure. Her smile will light up the room.

Fortune did not DFK with me but others say she does so YMMV. She looks exactly like a young Marisa Tomei. Her flat is a bit dicey in the lobby etc but fine inside.

Apparently Cambria can be YMMV on DFK also but with me it was off the charts good like a couple high schoolers. I recall last year when I did two duos with her and Kendall the first night her DFK was more tentative.

Which reminds me if you like big naturals get with Kendall. I like Fortunes more Bee-Cee size cup but if you like a Dee Kendall's are top of the world.

Aha, I didn't realize they were all Diva girls. But thanks for going the extra mile and posting URLs!

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2341295]Aha, I didn't realize they were all Diva girls. But thanks for going the extra mile and posting URLs![/QUOTE]Yeah I really don't do anything else. I never pay more than 150 or 200 Max and with proper research have never had a bad experience. My worst date so far has been Talita because she was too skinny but she was still friendly and high service so really perfectly fine. And that was my worst.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2341020]So no German FKK was on your best list then LOL. Is it the decline of German FKK line up or you had better time else where. It has decline since early 2010's, this is for sure.[/QUOTE]I was unable to make it to German FKK so far this year. Only Austria and Switzerland. You did see the amazing Kate from Globe appear. And let me tell U she was a close second on a couple other categories too. But she is a goddess and a legend. I would be a bit surprised if a German FKK girl made the list. Don't get me wrong I love FKK. But it's because you get 80% great for 50% the price and such a spectacle. I love it for other reasons than perfect girls and perfect sex.

One of the surprises for me was that two girls on the list were from uSA! Via [URL]seekingarrangement.com[/URL]. I just started dabbling with this and have really enjoyed it. I think learned of it here or in the Bangkok forum. You get much more real girls and not pros. So far it's been interesting:

Kai. Big black girl. Not really my type but the sex was great and the kissing passionate because she was honestly in to me. A big ole sloppy mess. LOL. Love cumming in mish while making out.

[url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901][CodeWord901][/url]. Crap she was lovely. Latina. I was so into her at dinner and drinks. But we never got past making out on the first date. Which was epic BTW. Thought she was going to draw blood she was biting my lip so hard when kissing.

Gia. Beautiful slim black girl. Nice tits. Generally great sort of direct P4 P. Light kissing and CBJ but a good time.

Roxy. Slightly heavy but high service girl. 2 X CIM swallow. And wow I don't think she'the gotten off in a while. I gave her quite the workout by hand luv a sloppy FIV and she built up to a shattering climax with clampdown, knees bucking etc.

SA is a whole different beast but really interesting once you get into it.

I was unable to make it to German FKK so far this year. Only Austria and Switzerland. You did see the amazing Kate from Globe appear. And let me tell you she was a close second on a couple other categories too. But she is a goddess and a legend. I would be a bit surprised if a German FKK girl made the list. Don't get me wrong I love FKK. But it's because you get 80% great for 50% the price and such a spectacle. I love it for other reasons than perfect girls and perfect sex.

One of the surprises for me was that two girls on the list were from USA. I just started dabbling with this and have really enjoyed it. I think learned of it here or in the Bangkok forum. You get much more real girls and not pros. So far it's been interesting:

Kai. Big black girl. Not really my type but the sex was great and the kissing passionate because she was honestly in to me. A big ole sloppy mess. LOL. Love cumming in mish while making o Crap she was lovely. Latina. I was so into her at dinner and drinks. But we never got past making out on the first date. Which was epic BTW. Thought she was going to draw blood she was biting my lip so hard when kissing.

Gia. Beautiful slim black girl. Nice tits. Generally great sort of direct P4 P. Light kissing and CBJ but a good time.

Roxy. Slightly heavy but high service girl. 2 X CIM swallow. And wow I don't think she'the gotten off in a while. I gave her quite the workout by hand luv a sloppy FIV and she built up to a shattering climax with clampdown, knees bucking etc.

SA is a whole different beast but really interesting once you get into it.

Sex with no pro girls is for me always far better than with overfucked girls in the FKK clubs.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2341525]I was unable to make it to German FKK so far this year. Only Austria and Switzerland. You did see the amazing Kate from Globe appear. And let me tell U she was a close second on a couple other categories too. But she is a goddess and a legend. I would be a bit surprised if a German FKK girl made the list. Don't get me wrong I love FKK. But it's because you get 80% great for 50% the price and such a spectacle. I love it for other reasons than perfect girls and perfect sex.[/QUOTE]Kate like many other Globe girls, worked in Germany before Globe, Kate worked for 4 years in Hessen, but she improved to a more sophisticated look at Globe. Even including Globe, even including Kate, my best FKK girl was at small Living Room. After a very average discovery, with her small pussy, I worked on her to make her improve for me, and she was just exceptional to follow me for my level in bed. Had some really high level girls in Germany, higher level than Polish or Russian escorts coming from London business, I met in Paris, most were Romanian of course, except my exceptional German escort met at VV, repeated at YY on next week end, then outside FKK for 2 months.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2341525]I was unable to make it to German FKK so far this year. Only Austria and Switzerland. You did see the amazing Kate from Globe appear. And let me tell U she was a close second on a couple other categories too. But she is a goddess and a legend. I would be a bit surprised if a German FKK girl made the list. Don't get me wrong I love FKK. But it's because you get 80% great for 50% the price and such a spectacle. I love it for other reasons than perfect girls and perfect sex.


Kai. Big black girl. Not really my type but the sex was great and the kissing passionate because she was honestly in to me. A big ole sloppy mess. LOL. Love cumming in mish while making out.[/QUOTE]Yeah, me neither, but I am going to Artemis in late summer in two month time to try out my old fav Artemis again.

I am not into Black girls either, but I did two half white and half black girls in German FKK, both in Artemis actually and these two were cafe au lait skin color model level exotic beauty. One thing I do enjoy in FKK is to fuck girls who I normally do not have access to sometimes, exotic beauties are always nice change from usual white beauties.

These black girls you are talking about were in Globe?

There is a thriving semi professional paid sex scene in US and Steve mentioned [URL]seeking.com[/URL] below. It is a good sugar daddy sites, and there are others like [URL]secretbenefits.com[/URL], [URL]sugardaddymeet.com[/URL], [URL]sugardaddy.com[/URL] and a few others. I have tried all of them over the years and I have had some amount of success with these semi pros even on tinder. Altogether, I used to spend in the neighborhood of a couple of grand annually on memberships for these sites, but it is worth it for a local like me. I have been away from these sites for more than 18 months now because I already have a good number of contacts now in my local area. If my contacts become stale, I may renew my membership fee. We will see.

You do see many of the same girls registered on multiple sites as well, so it does not make sense to pay site fee to all of them. I used to hop across sites on a monthly basis to collect as many contacts as possible. The girls on these sites are not strictly professional and there are other sites for the pros but I will not mention them here. Because the girls are not totally professional, you have a wide range from marriage minded girls seeking their perfect husband to professionals looking to charge by the meet and everyone in between, including many who will only do photos and videos but never meet etc. The whole thing has the feel of pursuing a girl in a pub kinda thing and some guys may wonder what's the big deal and why bother with paying a membership fee and they would be quite right (they make sense for a married man like me who can't spend hours and hours pursuing girls in pubs but can browse girls on my phone sitting on the loo, haha). But if you do get good at this, the reward is that you can have a stable of local girls who are genuinely regular normal girls who *could be* college grads, secretaries, medical assistants, hair dressers, waitresses, single moms, and others that genuinely like to have sex (or else they will not go with you) and sex feels more natural than in a brothel or FKK. Not necessarily better, mind you — at least not all the time. But there Are some positives. If a girl is willing to have anal sex, she will do it with you for the same gift you give her for normal sex. Likewise, AO sex is fairly common. I would never even dream of having AO sex in a FKK, but have done it with some girls after we both knew each other for say half a dozen meets. Fee amounts and structure vary. I have paid per meet, had some girls on weekly allowance when I was seeing them regularly, a couple preferred that I help with their rents, and some wanted help with shopping trips. One girl 3 years ago was in a relationship with me for a few months while I paid the monthly payment she owed for her boob job. Some girls are hugely money minded, but I have also met a good number who are very relaxed about sex after the first couple of meets. I'm guessing many guys here are middle aged like me and one thing I realized through these sugar daddy sites is that today's 20 something girls have a more relaxed attitude to sex and hooking up is not a big deal for many of them. They still want financial help, but did not insist on strict payments after a few meets. As I'm a married man, I have to be very discreet and always meet at the girl's place (which was a deal breaker with some girls) but I reckon that a unencumbered single man can have a field day if he is willing to spend a couple of grand a month.

I don't know if these sites are popular in other countries. I heard some sites have foreign presence as well, but have no knowledge. Every site is strong in a specific locality. So, it pays to check who has the most number of girls close to you. Just like you would check out a number of FKks before you settle on the best clubs for you, it makes sense to site hop across a few and see which ones have the most girls to your liking. This approach worked for me.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2341669]Yeah, me neither, but I am going to Artemis in late summer in two month time to try out my old fav Artemis again.

I am not into Black girls either, but I did two half white and half black girls in German FKK, both in Artemis actually and these two were cafe au lait skin color model level exotic beauty. One thing I do enjoy in FKK is to fuck girls who I normally do not have access to sometimes, exotic beauties are always nice change from usual white beauties.

These black girls you are talking about were in Globe?[/QUOTE]Not many black girls in Globe, mostly Romanians and few Germans like Joana, Gianina. Black girls at Oase, prettier than at Bab.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2341789]Not many black girls in Globe, mostly Romanians and few Germans like Joana, Gianina. Black girls at Oase, prettier than at Bab.[/QUOTE]Yeah, when I went it was mostly Romanian, few Bulgarian and one Russian. But I only been there once and it was on Sunday, so my knowledge on Globe is limited. I did think service level was like no other club.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2341669]Yeah, me neither, but I am going to Artemis in late summer in two month time to try out my old fav Artemis again.

I am not into Black girls either, but I did two half white and half black girls in German FKK, both in Artemis actually and these two were cafe au lait skin color model level exotic beauty. One thing I do enjoy in FKK is to fuck girls who I normally do not have access to sometimes, exotic beauties are always nice change from usual white beauties.

These black girls you are talking about were in Globe?[/QUOTE]No they were in the US. All my Seeking Arrangment action has been US. Actually they were both super pretty in the face. Kai is just really big. Gia is trim and beautiful — super cute face. Actually I believe she said her mom was French.

BTW. Seeking Arrangement is continuing to pay off. Argentina is a tough venue and I have a well priced hottie with great chemistry already lined up. Of course hasn't happened yet but feels totally right — you learn to pick up a certain vibe on SA.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2342116]Yeah, when I went it was mostly Romanian, few Bulgarian and one Russian. But I only been there once and it was on Sunday, so my knowledge on Globe is limited. I did think service level was like no other club.[/QUOTE]Globe is the highest level for looks and level in bed, no upselling, 130 €/30 mn, but not the best club for black girls who are quite rare there, but some high level Germans like Joana or Gianina. Skylar. De moved to History Basel Liestal.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2342363]No they were in the US. All my Seeking Arrangment action has been US. Actually they were both super pretty in the face. Kai is just really big. Gia is trim and beautiful super cute face. Actually I believe she said her mom was French.

BTW. Seeking Arrangement is continuing to pay off. Argentina is a tough venue and I have a well priced hottie with great chemistry already lined up. Of course hasn't happened yet but feels totally right you learn to pick up a certain vibe on SA.[/QUOTE]So in US, you got to be your own PIMP, but at least cut out the middle man LOL.

In every nation, men got to do what men got to do LOL.

So it seems like hotels in Frankfurt are charging a visitor's tax now, 2 E per night. If it's money I can keep in my pocket, I will. If they ask me if I'm in town for business or pleasure, and I say business, will they check in any way?

Thanks!

[QUOTE=Jmioffe;2342408]So it seems like hotels in Frankfurt are charging a visitor's tax now, 2 E per night. If it's money I can keep in my pocket, I will. If they ask me if I'm in town for business or pleasure, and I say business, will they check in any way?

Thanks![/QUOTE]This is in place since Jan. 2018, just say you are there for business.

[QUOTE=Jmioffe;2342408]So it seems like hotels in Frankfurt are charging a visitor's tax now, 2 E per night. If it's money I can keep in my pocket, I will. If they ask me if I'm in town for business or pleasure, and I say business, will they check in any way?

Thanks![/QUOTE]You must write on the registration form that your aretravelling for business and indicate the "full address" of your employer.

[QUOTE=Jmioffe;2342408]So it seems like hotels in Frankfurt are charging a visitor's tax now, 2 E per night. If it's money I can keep in my pocket, I will. If they ask me if I'm in town for business or pleasure, and I say business, will they check in any way?

Thanks![/QUOTE]It is called stay over tax and all hotels around Europe charge it per night. Not the same amount everywhere, in Frankfurt 2 euro per night, in Brussels and Zurich or Geneva around 4 per night.

Effective since 2017 . It has nothing to do if you are there for business or pleasure.

With the remodel of Palace and the recent post by Mr Ho about Palace, I'm trying to decide on my "one night only" flight change. Should I opt for Palace or Sharks.

I probably won't regret my choice, but would be happy for any input or thoughts. Just still "dreaming" about my one night in Augsburg at Oasis and the best anal I think I've ever had.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2342608]It is called stay over tax and all hotels around Europe charge it per night. Not the same amount everywhere, in Frankfurt 2 euro per night, in Brussels and Zurich or Geneva around 4 per night.

Effective since 2017 . It has nothing to do if you are there for business or pleasure.[/QUOTE]It has all to do if it's business or pleasure. This is asked by each hotel. IME most people at the front desks are more than happy to let you lie to avoid the tax but be prepared.

[QUOTE=XXL;2342452]You must write on the registration form that your aretravelling for business and indicate the "full address" of your employer.[/QUOTE]Thanks! I don't want my employer to know what I'm doing in country. I could make up an employer address, but I don't want to have a bad record with Germany, so I suppose I should just pay it, right? What if I just used my friends' address as the company I'm "consulting" for?

[QUOTE=Tintin1;2342649]With the remodel of Palace and the recent post by Mr Ho about Palace, I'm trying to decide on my "one night only" flight change. Should I opt for Palace or Sharks.

I probably won't regret my choice, but would be happy for any input or thoughts. Just still "dreaming" about my one night in Augsburg at Oasis and the best anal I think I've ever had.[/QUOTE]But palace is a real nightmare, more or less all the German senior monger left the club, it is tourists and fair visitors trap. A real no go place.

[QUOTE=Jmioffe;2342740]Thanks! I don't want my employer to know what I'm doing in country. I could make up an employer address, but I don't want to have a bad record with Germany, so I suppose I should just pay it, right? What if I just used my friends' address as the company I'm "consulting" for?[/QUOTE]The bevaviour is sometimes really strange. In case arriving at Darmstadt central station in a period with heavy rain we immediately take a taxi and don't mind paying the driver 12 Euro for a 5 minutes ride instead of taking the bus. And a girl arguing that DFK up from 100 Euro (even though she doesn't do it later with enthusiasm) is paid because we're horny. But we want to save the tourism charge for six nights in a hotel amounting also to 12 Euro worrying that this could arise some problem on another level.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2342377]Globe is the highest level for looks and level in bed, no upselling, 130 /30 mn, but not the best club for black girls who are quite rare there, but some high level Germans like Joana or Gianina. Skylar. De moved to History Basel Liestal.[/QUOTE]Yes, Globe I tied out once on Sunday. But how is History in Basel, the site looks nice with good building, but are girls service and looks same level as globe? Or is it even same owner?

[QUOTE=Ararat;2342726]It has all to do if it's business or pleasure. This is asked by each hotel. IME most people at the front desks are more than happy to let you lie to avoid the tax but be prepared.[/QUOTE]What do you mean? That if you say pleasure you don't pay? First time I hear this, this tax is paid because you stay in hotel and the amount differs depending on the rate of the hotel. Average 2 euro in my country. In Germany they have a "culture tax," called a kulturförderabgabe, and a "bed tax," a bettensteuer, in cities including Frankfurt, Hamburg, and Berlin. The taxes don't include the VAT and reach 5 euros ($5.67) per person a day or 5% of a hotel bill.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2342857]Yes, Globe I tied out once on Sunday. But how is History in Basel, the site looks nice with good building, but are girls service and looks same level as globe? Or is it even same owner?[/QUOTE]Globe worth on Sunday for great brunch with champagne before 5 pm, but better to know girls on Sunday. No problem of course if You have favs who run to You, working. About 35/40 girls versus 50 from Thursday to Saturday, but some superstars like Joana. De are usually working on Sunday when they are on tour. Tagesplan to check.

History Basel Liestal, Westside, Swiss Dietikon, Palace Luzern are little brothers, some for less than 80€/30 mn for super GFE, but only a very few girls can compete with Globe for look, but had great girls at History who would have been among the prettiest at Globe, like Lorena or Andrea, also Miki at Westside. Simona was also great at Swiss. No foods in small brothers, but can order outside. Swimming pool at History and Westside. Entry less than 60€ in small brothers.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2342972]What do you mean? That if you say pleasure you don't pay?[/QUOTE]The other way round. Business travellers don't pay but leisure travellers do. This is usually called a city tax.

[QUOTE=Ararat;2343040]The other way round. Business travellers don't pay but leisure travellers do. This is usually called a city tax.[/QUOTE]As far as I know the only tourists that have exemption from tourist tax or city tax are children disabled and accompanying persons patients and some other categories and certainly not business travellers.

Can you show me a link about what you say?

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2343011]Globe worth on Sunday for great brunch with champagne before 5 pm, but better to know girls on Sunday. No problem of course if You have favs who run to You, working. About 35/40 girls versus 50 from Thursday to Saturday, but some superstars like Joana. De are usually working on Sunday when they are on tour. Tagesplan to check.

History Basel Liestal, Westside, Swiss Dietikon, Palace Luzern are little brothers, some for less than 80/30 mn for super GFE, but only a very few girls can compete with Globe for look, but had great girls at History who would have been among the prettiest at Globe, like Lorena or Andrea, also Miki at Westside. Simona was also great at Swiss. No foods in small brothers, but can order outside. Swimming pool at History and Westside. Entry less than 60 in small brothers.[/QUOTE]Yes, I remember the globe brunch. They even had fresh squeeze orange juice machine that you can actually squeeze orange, so it is real orange juice. As for service it is by far better than German FKK, and since we now pay extra for many things in some German FKK, it begin to be same to go to globe Zurich where service is guaranteed. Only down side of globe is hard club to stay long time with only out side area is roof top, which is not a bad place to be during summer or spring or autumn when weather is not cold yet.

All the years I lived in Switzerland, I never went to Basel, so one day I might stretch myself to there.

I also went to FKK called Zeus in Luzern and I must say it was not that bad.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2343088]Yes, I remember the globe brunch. They even had fresh squeeze orange juice machine that you can actually squeeze orange, so it is real orange juice. As for service it is by far better than German FKK, and since we now pay extra for many things in some German FKK, it begin to be same to go to globe Zurich where service is guaranteed. Only down side of globe is hard club to stay long time with only out side area is roof top, which is not a bad place to be during summer or spring or autumn when weather is not cold yet.

All the years I lived in Switzerland, I never went to Basel, so one day I might stretch myself to there.

I also went to FKK called Zeus in Luzern and I must say it was not that bad.[/QUOTE]Had exceptional Mia, superstar at Zeus and Aphrodite close to Montreux, escorting in Zermatt, but this time is over, now Globe and the others like Freubad Bern, Sexpark Aarau, Bumsalp, Aphrodisia, Westside Frauenfeld close to German border.

Yes, real fresh orange juice on Sunday brunch. Can enjoy beauties in 3 beds on the roof. When some girls ask for 100 for 30 mn in Germany, other planet beauties with far higher level in bed, will be with You for not far from 1 hour for 130 . If You know to manage with women, You can have a chat for about 15 mn, if you are good in bed with her, You can enjoy her for 30/35 mn, if she likes her time with You, shower together for 10 mn. This is Globe level.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2343057]As far as I know the only tourists that have exemption from tourist tax or city tax are children disabled and accompanying persons patients and some other categories and certainly not business travellers.

Can you show me a link about what you say?[/QUOTE]Of course.

[URL]https://www.bettensteuer.de/en/city-tax-frankfurt-main[/URL]

[QUOTE=Ararat;2343337]Of course.

[URL]https://www.bettensteuer.de/en/city-tax-frankfurt-main[/URL][/QUOTE]Thanks, I didn't;t know it is different in Germany.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2343109]Had exceptional Mia, superstar at Zeus and Aphrodite close to Montreux, escorting in Zermatt, but this time is over, now Globe and the others like Freubad Bern, Sexpark Aarau, Bumsalp, Aphrodisia, Westside Frauenfeld close to German border.

Yes, real fresh orange juice on Sunday brunch. Can enjoy beauties in 3 beds on the roof. When some girls ask for 100 for 30 mn in Germany, other planet beauties with far higher level in bed, will be with You for not far from 1 hour for 130 . If You know to manage with women, You can have a chat for about 15 mn, if you are good in bed with her, You can enjoy her for 30/35 mn, if she likes her time with You, shower together for 10 mn. This is Globe level.[/QUOTE]Sirioja? How are Geneve scene? I lived in Geneve long time ago, but there really were limited brothel there, only one that was good was called something like Villa 49 or villa something front of Balexert shopping mall in residence area.

Are there any FKK like brothel or something as good in Geneve? It was so odd because Zurich was such a good mongering city, but french part really was not as good. It got to do with German speaking area? LOL.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2343455]Sirioja? How are Geneve scene? I lived in Geneve long time ago, but there really were limited brothel there, only one that was good was called something like Villa 49 or villa something front of Balexert shopping mall in residence area.

Are there any FKK like brothel or something as good in Geneve? It was so odd because Zurich was such a good mongering city, but french part really was not as good. It got to do with German speaking area? LOL.[/QUOTE]There were few clubs in French part, Aphrodite close to Montreux and one close to Neuchatel, brothers with Zeus, but I think in Geneva, only privates and escorts. Swiss FKK land is Zurich, only 1 close to Aarau, 1 close to Bern, 2 around Basel, 1 Globe brother close to German border, 1 Globe brother close to Luzern but not Zeus. Albanian drug dealers also know about Zurich business.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2344033]There were few clubs in French part, Aphrodite close to Montreux and one close to Neuchatel, brothers with Zeus, but I think in Geneva, only privates and escorts. Swiss FKK land is Zurich, only 1 close to Aarau, 1 close to Bern, 2 around Basel, 1 Globe brother close to German border, 1 Globe brother close to Luzern but not Zeus. Albanian drug dealers also know about Zurich business.[/QUOTE]Aphrodite. I did not know about that club, are line up as good as German FKK or globe?

It is odd that such a big demand in Geneve and no good brothel. I imagine the authority is tougher in Geneve being base for who, UN etc.

When it comes to best brothels, there is something to do with German speaking part LOL. They tend to have the best brothel of whole world. Are German speaking more sexual or just organized or both.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2344137]Aphrodite. I did not know about that club, are line up as good as German FKK or globe?

It is odd that such a big demand in Geneve and no good brothel. I imagine the authority is tougher in Geneve being base for who, UN etc.

When it comes to best brothels, there is something to do with German speaking part LOL. They tend to have the best brothel of whole world. Are German speaking more sexual or just organized or both.[/QUOTE]I knew a escort, Mia who also worked at Zeus, then Aphrodite close to Montreux, but it was on 2011, when I didn't even know about German FKK. She was exceptional for chic beauty, charm, elegance and sweetness, feeling like with a real woman, and very good point for my mind, even I was sometimes answered she was booked, but I never saw her with another guy. When I went to Aphrodite, she was waiting for me, better image for desire, met many times, good for recovering after ski. Aphrodite may be closed now.

Brothels are in German culture, in Italy, privates and escorts, France is like USA about sex, better to eat Macdonald.

How do you Frankfurt guys in here suspect the Deutsche Bank problems to affect the hessen p6 market? I suspect most of the well paid layoffs are in Frankfurt.

OK. You either like these posts or you think I'm an idiot. So please, if you can- just offer suggestions on the route. (I know I'm an idiot already).

I have to visit a few factories but can plan my itinerary pretty freely. It will be in the midst of the winter so I will take trains between cities. I don't love the idea of driving and DB offers good train service.

I will start in Bavaria with 2 nights: Augsburg (Coliseum) and Munich (Sunshine) . Munich just remodeled their FKK and the first reports are good.

Then where next?

Nuremberg is a wasteland, Offenbach? Or should I just continue to Frankfurt.
(haven't checked the indies yet so there is always "hope").

Next up Frankfurt 2 nights (Sharks and Palace).

Then in the direction of Cologne / NRW. I can spend 1 to 2 nights but planning is hard as the forum is filled with almost more bad reviews than good ones. Either I stop in, Cologne, then pick among Dusseldorf, Dortmund or even Wupperthal for a second night based on the best train schedule and the most recent forum posts or I go off to Berlin and hope for some Indie escort time and maybe even a Tantric Massage (Berlin seems to be the hub of tantric offerings). Cologne has the advantage of being a nice city to walk around and explore during the day, even in the winter.

End in Berlin for 2- 3 nights and hospital rehab.

Thank you.

[QUOTE=Tintin1;2344348]OK. You either like these posts or you think I'm an idiot. So please, if you can- just offer suggestions on the route. (I know I'm an idiot already).

I have to visit a few factories but can plan my itinerary pretty freely. It will be in the midst of the winter so I will take trains between cities. I don't love the idea of driving and DB offers good train service.

I will start in Bavaria with 2 nights: Augsburg (Coliseum) and Munich (Sunshine) . Munich just remodeled their FKK and the first reports are good.

Then where next?

Nuremberg is a wasteland, Offenbach? Or should I just continue to Frankfurt.
...[/QUOTE]From Munich / Augsburg to Stuttgart. Paradise. Plenty of hotels within walking distance of Paradise. I recommend Ibis (easy parking).

Next day scenic drive from Stuttgart to Frankfurt

[QUOTE=Pistons;2344345]How do you Frankfurt guys in here suspect the Deutsche Bank problems to affect the hessen p6 market? I suspect most of the well paid layoffs are in Frankfurt.[/QUOTE]The biggest cuts are in the areas of investment banking and equity sales. By far the most impacted offices are NYC and London and to some extent Singapore etc. Sewing did not detail the job cuts by office, but by most accounts it will be the above listed location offices impacted the most. Also, it is easier to lay-off in NYC and London quickly in general, plus Frankfurt has a lot less exposure to Global equity sales which is the key focus for cuts.

I think the impact on Hessen cuts is minimal to almost nothing. I don't think they are letting go more than a couple of thousand Frankfurt employees at most, and many of them may find other jobs. In an economy the size of Hessen, that will have very limited impact. If those guys saved up enough, and with more time on hand, they may visit the clubs more often till they find something another job haha.

The ongoing trade war will have a bigger impact. If Renminbi is under a lot more pressure and if China's outbound passengers stay home due to less confidence in their own finances, there will be less business for the Asian hunters at Sharks.

[QUOTE=Tintin1;2344348]or I go off to Berlin and hope for some Indie escort time and maybe even a Tantric Massage (Berlin seems to be the hub of tantric offerings). [/QUOTE]I tried that twice. Once in Berlin and once in Prague. I have to say the price both places were not worth it. Slightly cheaper in Prague than in Berlin, but also the service was far far worse there with the local girl than what I had with a girl from New Zealand in Berlin. I think perhaps the choice you have of girls in Berlin makes it a good location if you really want to try this tantric thing. And I suspect you don't mean normal prostitutes who also claim to be doing tantric massage. But the tantric stuff without insertion. Either way, time and money was still better spent at an FKK in my eyes. Even if I felt I almost hit bullseye with the new Zealand girl.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2344203]I knew a escort, Mia who also worked at Zeus, then Aphrodite close to Montreux, but it was on 2011, when I didn't even know about German FKK. She was exceptional for chic beauty, charm, elegance and sweetness, feeling like with a real woman, and very good point for my mind, even I was sometimes answered she was booked, but I never saw her with another guy. When I went to Aphrodite, she was waiting for me, better image for desire, met many times, good for recovering after ski. Aphrodite may be closed now.

Brothels are in German culture, in Italy, privates and escorts, France is like USA about sex, better to eat Macdonald.[/QUOTE]FKK format is addictive thing. It is like grown man's Disney land where we can play and relax and store some life long memory. It kind of make me live youthful offspring that never end.

FKK gives me hypothetical, but real sexually based romance every time I visit and fine new young beautiful girl. One can live love life that is never ending with FKK to your optical and service choice.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2344495]I tried that twice. Once in Berlin and once in Prague. I have to say the price both places were not worth it. Slightly cheaper in Prague than in Berlin, but also the service was far far worse there with the local girl than what I had with a girl from New Zealand in Berlin. I think perhaps the choice you have of girls in Berlin makes it a good location if you really want to try this tantric thing. And I suspect you don't mean normal prostitutes who also claim to be doing tantric massage. But the tantric stuff without insertion. Either way, time and money was still better spent at an FKK in my eyes. Even if I felt I almost hit bullseye with the new Zealand girl.[/QUOTE]One thing I love about FKK is that FKK actually offer escort girls who usually charge 300 euro plus per hour. Those are minority and only very few in line up of FKK, but these I call stunners. And those tend to offer amazing dirty service when I gave into upsell usually ranging from 150 euro per hour and max I had to give in was 200 euro per hour. Which for me was defeat of negotiation, but hey, my penis do the thinking too in FKK sometimes LOL.

I like to look at girls I fuck before and FKK enable me to look at escort girl first and then decide if I want to go with her or not. Where as escort you can send them back politely upon opening of hotel door. But it is major turn off after the wait in hotel room.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2344495]I tried that twice. Once in Berlin and once in Prague. I have to say the price both places were not worth it. Slightly cheaper in Prague than in Berlin, but also the service was far far worse there with the local girl than what I had with a girl from New Zealand in Berlin. I think perhaps the choice you have of girls in Berlin makes it a good location if you really want to try this tantric thing. And I suspect you don't mean normal prostitutes who also claim to be doing tantric massage. But the tantric stuff without insertion. Either way, time and money was still better spent at an FKK in my eyes. Even if I felt I almost hit bullseye with the new Zealand girl.[/QUOTE]I equate the Tantric thing, to an amazing massage where you wish someone would just "finish you off". The girl is sexy and then you are horny as hell but I'm A LAZY GUY. I want to be pampered and I want someone else to do all the work. The Tantric ladies who are the best have these tricks with their legs and boobs where for a second I actually think I'm having sex without a condom. Some of these ladies just twist my brain in circles. The better ladies call it edging, where for 30 min to an hour they keep you just at the edge of orgasm and then BAM.

Also, a few nights in a row of a FKK, you can be a bit tired and want to be pampered. It's a personal thing. Just like I don't like red headed girls, the next guy ONLY likes red heads. When it comes to sex, nothing makes sense or "everything does".

[QUOTE=MrHo;2344536]One thing I love about FKK is that FKK actually offer escort girls who usually charge 300 euro plus per hour. Those are minority and only very few in line up of FKK, but these I call stunners. And those tend to offer amazing dirty service when I gave into upsell usually ranging from 150 euro per hour and max I had to give in was 200 euro per hour. Which for me was defeat of negotiation, but hey, my penis do the thinking too in FKK sometimes LOL.

I like to look at girls I fuck before and FKK enable me to look at escort girl first and then decide if I want to go with her or not. Where as escort you can send them back politely upon opening of hotel door. But it is major turn off after the wait in hotel room.[/QUOTE]Only if or when you are used to Tokyo prices.

I think a main problem is the too high entry prices girls are paying every day to work in these clubs.

Don't think for a moment that if the price per session goes up, the clubs won't immediately start charging the girls more.

Many clubs charge over 100 e a day for entry for the girls. This is outrageous. And also why a club like Acapulco who does not charge these outrageous amounts are able to attract top girls even when their 30 min rate is just 40 euro. Acapulco has after what I know managed to hold the entry price for girls as low as 35 euro.

Say if a girl works 25 days a month. With 115 e entry as the most expensive clubs might have for the girls, that is 2 875 e a month. In other words, over 50% of the income of an average FKK girl goes straight to the club. Sure the top girls can make much more, but this is average. And this is what causes upsells in some clubs to be higher than in other clubs.

Say 15% of a clubs income goes to pay back on a loan and return on investment (this is very high, but its a risky market). 5% goes to management. 5% goes to renovation / amenities. 15% goes to food. A club should maximum take 40% of average girls income. Which is a bit under 5000 euro a month. So a club should never take more than 80 euro on entry from the girls. Anything above that seems economically abusive towards the girls. And it increases the upsell levels. And for clubs with lower loan rates, and a good economy, this should probably never be higher than 70 euro. And considering how little girls eat compared to men, 65 e sounds more reasonable.

115 euro probably include renting a room at the club, which is 20 or 25 euro. But a room at a club should never cost more than 10, maximum 15 euro a night. Just comparing it to a hostel should tell you that. Plus the availability of this offer from a club towards the girls enhances the clubs competitiveness towards other clubs. So there should be a rebate.

Still, a 10 e price hike for 30 min would be reasonable also. As long as the clubs don't take any of it.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2345061]I think a main problem is the too high entry prices girls are paying every day to work in these clubs.
[/QUOTE]Salaam Pistons. Agreed. Since forever I've been standing on a box in the square cranking on about this. High entry prices (entry barriers) lead to over-professionalism & middlemanship.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2345183]Salaam Pistons. Agreed. Since forever I've been standing on a box in the square cranking on about this. High entry prices (entry barriers) lead to over-professionalism & middlemanship.[/QUOTE]Actually my calculations were too high I think. Girls shouldn't pay for management since they are the main attraction. It is just a silly gimmick seeing they are not allowed to work for the clubs. And also, since their entries are so many, they should get at least a 20 euro discount per entry from the rough numbers I came up with.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2345061]I think a main problem is the too high entry prices girls are paying every day to work in these clubs.

Don't think for a moment that if the price per session goes up, the clubs won't immediately start charging the girls more.

Many clubs charge over 100 e a day for entry for the girls. This is outrageous. And also why a club like Acapulco who does not charge these outrageous amounts are able to attract top girls even when their 30 min rate is just 40 euro. Acapulco has after what I know managed to hold the entry price for girls as low as 35 euro.

Say if a girl works 25 days a month. With 115 e entry as the most expensive clubs might have for the girls, that is 2 875 e a month. In other words, over 50% of the income of an average FKK girl goes straight to the club. Sure the top girls can make much more, but this is average. And this is what causes upsells in some clubs to be higher than in other clubs.

Say 15% of a clubs income goes to pay back on a loan and return on investment (this is very high, but its a risky market). 5% goes to management. 5% goes to renovation / amenities.[/QUOTE]For the club with good facility and good enough girls sleeping place, then it is justified, but most clubs are not like that. I do like the set up of Artemis, they even have in house medical doctor.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2345254]For the club with good facility and good enough girls sleeping place, then it is justified, but most clubs are not like that. I do like the set up of Artemis, they even have in house medical doctor.[/QUOTE]Artemis has so many visitors that just the pure economics of scale should have lowered the entry price by 50%. Worst example if you ask me. Artemis is a goldmine like none other. If you had said Wellcum, then to an extent yes. Because they actually spend some money on the food and parties etc. And have brand new amenities. But fir Artemis to have just 5 euro less in entry and probably 30% more visitors (those expo's) doesn't add up at all!

At Artemis, the lack of competition just lets them set all the parameters they want.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2345183]Salaam Pistons. Agreed. Since forever I've been standing on a box in the square cranking on about this. High entry prices (entry barriers) lead to over-professionalism & middlemanship.[/QUOTE]You are absolutely right. And I suppose this is the reason why the Austrian Laufhouses are winning the competition against the FKK's in some Austrian markets these days. The FKK's owners being too greedy. Sucks though considering how dull Laufhouses are if you ask me. But everyone must consider what is best for themselves.

I don't think with 115 entry an average girl makes 200 per day. She would be stupid to continue going there for 85 e per day.

The club should not even charge entry for the girls in my opinion. They already make crazy profits accepting only cash for entrance from customer and selling drinks for 170 euro with 35 euro wholesale price so can they ask money from the girls who visit every day? Their existence is because of the girls, if they stop going there will be no club.

I think they ask entrance from girls to maintain this independence rule with them. In fact it is like asking from your employees to pay to come and work for you.

Once again, billionaire got arrested in sex case in US. Beside being [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord903][CodeWord903][/url]. Why can't these US guys with money just go to Europe and go for 18 years old prostitute in Europe where it is legal? It is much liberal when it comes to legal sex trade in Europe, but these guys stay home ground in US and do their thing and end up getting arrested and face serious charges that they will pay with not only money, but their life like a decade or decades in US jail.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2345295] I suppose this is the reason why the Austrian Laufhouses are winning the competition against the FKK's in some Austrian markets these days. The FKK's owners being too greedy. Sucks though considering how dull Laufhouses are if you ask me. [/QUOTE]I looked in some Laufhauses in Graz but they stunk. Literally. I thought the only guys who could stand them were the Turkish teenagers.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2345372]Once again, billionaire got arrested in sex case in US. Beside being codeword. Why can't these US guys with money just go to Europe and go for 18 years old prostitute in Europe where it is legal? [/QUOTE]Because somebody has to stay behind and mind the shop. I generally assume that "billionaires" like Epstein, Kraft and Trump are just stooges / caretakers / middle managers. The real Owners are living the high life abroad in places where those kinds of laws don't apply. [I]Ya maraary.[/I]

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2345716]Because somebody has to stay behind and mind the shop. I generally assume that "billionaires" like Epstein and Trump are just stooges / caretakers / middle managers. The real Owners are living the high life abroad in places where those kinds of laws don't apply.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I agree, but I also noticed that some of them pay life grave price for it. With this case, it is hard to determine how much of it was based on consensus, but I just think. Only if they just go abroad to do this. Then they did not need to pay such a life grave price for it.

Either way, we mongers in FKK land and related are lucky. We get the taste of it with most secure and safe environment, no string attached, but comes with full of sexual beautiful memories.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2345716]Because somebody has to stay behind and mind the shop. I generally assume that "billionaires" like Epstein, Kraft and Trump are just stooges / caretakers / middle managers. The real Owners are living the high life abroad in places where those kinds of laws don't apply. [I]Ya maraary.[/I][/QUOTE]Now that we begin talking about this and today are Kelly got arrested LOL What is going on in US? LOL. These guy just has to go to Europe or south america.

Yes, I agree that some political figures and such are middle man. But most of the guys behind live rather conservatively.

The guys who live crazy are the ones in eastern Europe, and south america in some of these nations because laws there are money. But they do live risky life.

We monger have it good enough either and maybe we are in better place as we are safer with no problem because it is totally legal for us, we just have to fly to fuck LOL Air fucking.

I agree with Pistons and Polyamorist that high entry prices for girls have bad effects. But of course the clubs are not interested as they earn a lot from the girls. As long as there is a supply of girls the clubs concerned will continue to see how much they can get from the girls. A big club could easily be taking g well over 10,000 euros (gross) a day from the girls.

The entry price for girls usually includes 25 euro which is tax to be passed on to the authorities.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2345362]I don't think with 115 entry an average girl makes 200 per day. She would be stupid to continue going there for 85 e per day.

The club should not even charge entry for the girls in my opinion. They already make crazy profits accepting only cash for entrance from customer and selling drinks for 170 euro with 35 euro wholesale price so can they ask money from the girls who visit every day? Their existence is because of the girls, if they stop going there will be no club.

I think they ask entrance from girls to maintain this independence rule with them. In fact it is like asking from your employees to pay to come and work for you.[/QUOTE]At Sharks or Oase, girls pay 105 per day, 20 to sleep at Sharks. Only 55 at GT. If sometimes really more than 200 girls at Sharks, then club make more than 20000, only with girls.

I remember when I discovered her in May 2014, my World regular worked only on week end, most often on Friday and Saturday, starting at 5 pm, sometimes on Sunday. On Winter 2014/2015, World asked girls to work 5 days per week, when World was empty, even on some Saturdays. On some Saturdays I was her only business with 2 or 3, 1 hour rooms, so 200 or 300, when she paid entry 95. She came for me on 2 Wednesdays on January when I couldn't go on week end because of Kitzbühel or Wengen. From her start at 5 pm to 4 am, was her only business with 2-1 hour rooms, 200 and entry 75 to pay for her, only 125 for her working 10 hours. I apologized about this, she answered no problem, we kept on meeting weekly for months, she never talked about money, she was too chic beauty for World clients level at this time, she became less elegant later. In brothels, some girls can do for you, for really not much money for them, maybe because they like you at this time.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2345837]I agree with Pistons and Polyamorist that high entry prices for girls have bad effects. But of course the clubs are not interested as they earn a lot from the girls. As long as there is a supply of girls the clubs concerned will continue to see how much they can get from the girls. A big club could easily be taking g well over 10,000 euros (gross) a day from the girls.[/QUOTE]It also means a girl is not going to be banned for bad behavior. In the case of a major dispute, it would be cheaper to ban the customer. Because the girls are the real customers, a captive market.

I wonder if girls had to pay these fees in the old days (FKK Atlantis etc)?

An interesting observation about entrance prices for girls. Its not just in German FKKS too. A number of girls at Aphro have told me they left Globe because the working conditions were too strict and the club took too much of their earnings. I didn't even ask if the girls also have to pay. But I suppose the owners bottom line is to maximise their profits and, for now, there is a steady line of Romanian girls willing to take the place of any girls who don't like it both in Germany and Switzerland and Austria I guess.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2345372]Once again, billionaire got arrested in sex case in US. Beside being . Why can't these US guys with money just go to Europe and go for 18 years old prostitute in Europe where it is legal? It is much liberal when it comes to legal sex trade in Europe, but these guys stay home ground in US and do their thing and end up getting arrested and face serious charges that they will pay with not only money, but their life like a decade or decades in US jail.[/QUOTE]Because these guys are not looking to have sex with prostitutes. When you have enough money to buy anything you want in life, you seek out what you cannot buy. Meanwhile, the poor folks here are arguing over 50 E.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2345880]It also means a girl is not going to be banned for bad behavior. In the case of a major dispute, it would be cheaper to ban the customer. Because the girls are the real customers, a captive market.

I wonder if girls had to pay these fees in the old days (FKK Atlantis etc)?[/QUOTE]I don't know about Atlantis but at World the girls used to pay about 40 if they started early. It meant they were quite relaxed about covering their costs.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2345884]Because these guys are not looking to have sex with prostitutes. When you have enough money to buy anything you want in life, you seek out what you cannot buy. Meanwhile, the poor folks here are arguing over 50 E.[/QUOTE]True LOL.

But put it this way, they got themselves something they cannot buy easily now called US justice system LOL.

Also, by reading article, most of the sexual act they did is pretty much we mongers get or even less than what we have in the cases that I mentioned.

However, I do also think that there are individuals who live more higher intense crazier monger lives in certain area of this world where money is above law like in some of emerging nations in eastern Europe and south America etc.

The thing is I think there should be boundaries. What we mongers do in FKK for instance is based on consensus and these girls are protected by house and also German law, so it is enjoyable enough for me because it is not totally against these girls will.

As for 50 euro, sometimes I don't know why some mongers including myself fuss with 50 euro more LOL. But I got to say that 150 euro per hour is justifiable upsell, but it is something with this 200 euro per hour upsell that I do not like mentally LOL, it is not that I cannot pay 50 euro extra, but I just hate these scam that kills my mood LOL. But now that you mention it, next time I am in FKK, I might give my self in and see if girls will go more all out in room, which I actually had few experience where I paid 200 euro per hour session and one of it was mind blowing session LOL.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2345707]I looked in some Laufhauses in Graz but they stunk. Literally. I thought the only guys who could stand them were the Turkish teenagers.[/QUOTE]Well, I listen too much to people on the Austrian forum. Haven't tried them myself. But Laufhaus Vienna has some beautiful girls if looking at the pictures.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2345884]Because these guys are not looking to have sex with prostitutes. When you have enough money to buy anything you want in life, you seek out what you cannot buy. Meanwhile, the poor folks here are arguing over 50 E.[/QUOTE]Nobody here argues over 50 euro. But 50 x X euro. With 100 rooms a year, that is 5000 euro.

Your billionaire may make his income from shoes sold at a price of 51 euro each. Take away 'only 50 euro', and he probably wouldn't even be a millionaire even.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2345907]I don't know about Atlantis but at World the girls used to pay about 40 if they started early. It meant they were quite relaxed about covering their costs.[/QUOTE]40 euro? In Artemis if I remember right, it is 140 euro, but they get to sleep up stairs.

[QUOTE=Sebastiane;2345883]An interesting observation about entrance prices for girls. Its not just in German FKKS too. A number of girls at Aphro have told me they left Globe because the working conditions were too strict and the club took too much of their earnings. I didn't even ask if the girls also have to pay. But I suppose the owners bottom line is to maximise their profits and, for now, there is a steady line of Romanian girls willing to take the place of any girls who don't like it both in Germany and Switzerland and Austria I guess.[/QUOTE]Aphro level of looks is lower on average than Globe. Most of Aphro girls can t work at Globe, no Megan, no Joana at Aphro. I think Globe girls pay about 30 from 140 to Globe. Ask Aphro girls how much they pay from 280, they have to pay for our free drinks. Big turn over at Aphro because slow business, too expensive for level of looks, most often quite empty except on few nights. I felt a bit lonely when I was the only guy at 7. 30 pm on a Thursday, more than 40 girls staring, smiling at me, but unfortunately no wow. Girls say they don t like Globe when they can t make good business or when they are fired. Megan told me my advice was excellent, my way to thank her.

Interesting discussion about girls' entry fee and how that may be impacting service levels. I think many members made some very valid points. I think Optimist said 25 goes to the government as some sort of license fee? Did that amount change / increase over time? I think it is not reasonable to expect that clubs will lower girls' entry fee to zero because they need to reimburse the government for 25, and also they incur real expenses for food, drinks, other amenities in the club — same amount as they incur in the case of male guests. You can argue they are charging men and women too much entry fee, and whether that is a good argument or not, they do have real expenses and the club managements are not in the charity business to be providing free services and food and goodies to all and sundry.

It would be interesting to compare girls' entry fee amounts in a given locale and see whether differences in those amounts lead to any measurable differences in service levels. For instance, if a club charges 75 and another club nearby charges 100, the girls at the former have a lower threshold to cover their costs. Is there any evidence that girls at that club feel less pressured and hence provide better service?

Clubs can always lower the girls' entry fee to gain market share if they think it is an effective ploy. If they lower from 100 to 75, they can in theory attract more girls which in turn attracts more guys over time. Why are they not doing it? Perhaps they do not think it will work as a good business tactic? Or are these clubs run by managements who are so clueless that they do not know what is good for them? For example, you would not expect Sharks to lower its fee because with the way they currently are, they are still presumably making a large amount of money. But you might expect one of the laggard clubs in the Hessen area to at least try it. Oase lowered fee for men through early entry etc, so we know clubs are aware of the interplay between entry fee and volume growth. If they did not try this in the case of WGs yet, they probably know something we don't.

We also know some new clubs in the early days of the club did allow girls to work with very low entry fee. So, clubs have tried this tactic sporadically but not as a ongoing business strategy.

If the real goal of a club is *long term* profit maximization, it should do what it can to achieve its objective. Of course, some clubs may have other motives, especially those managed by questionable owners in which case their objective may not simply be profit maximization but other motives, potentially illegal. We simply do not know, unless you are an insider.

However, what I do know is that the fact that these entry fee structures have been in place for a long time and nothing much is being done to lower them over time, it is unlikely that they will listen to the pleas of a few people here and lower the amount or remove it altogether. That seems like wishful thinking to me.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2345372]Once again, billionaire got arrested in sex case in US. Beside being... Why can't these US guys with money just go to Europe and go for 18 years old prostitute in Europe where it is legal? It is much liberal when it comes to legal sex trade in Europe, but these guys stay home ground in US and do their thing and end up getting arrested and face serious charges that they will pay with not only money, but their life like a decade or decades in US jail.[/QUOTE]His problem is that he is a [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord910][CodeWord910][/url] who is sexually attracted (and addicted) to girls (or boys) under 18, so FKK clubs wouldn't help him, nor the girls below 18 in Europe because the American law in terms of [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord910][CodeWord910][/url] states that any American who has sex with a girl or boy under 18 is punishable in USA regardless of which country it happens in. An American better not be a [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord910][CodeWord910][/url] because the punishment for such a sex crime is very severe and he might also be killed in the prison by his fellow inmates if he is an ordinary man and usually not well physically protected unlike Epstein. I think Epstein will mostly likely spend the rest of his life in prison if next week the judge denies his release on bail pending his trial.

With regards to whether the WG's entrance fee should be waived. I think that it is not that simple and several points need to be considered:

1. The owners of FKK clubs invested a lot of money to the clubs. A good size of club can easily cost several million euros. I heard that Artemis costed its owner over 10 millions euro. So every year they need to have profit of certain percentage of investment as investment return. It is not like mom and pop store whose owner would probably be satisfied if he can earn several thousands euro per month. Let's say the owner conservatively wants 10% of investment as profit each year and if the FKK club costed him 5 million euro, so he wants 500K euro (5 millions X 10%) each year as profit. IMO, 10% return on investment is not too greedy (and also see my second point).

2. The establishments like FKK in sex industry is much more vulnerable to be closed down by the government than normal business, due to its nature of business dealing with prostitutes. So the return on FKK investment should be much higher than the return from normal business to cover the risk being shut down prematurely.

3. Current FKK club format is well tested format financially. I am pretty sure that during early stage of FKK club development the owners of FKK clubs already tested various formats including the format of WG's entrance-free you guys discussed about. By the way, don't hope WG's free entrance because, in my opinion, the owners will certainly levy the loss of WG's entrance fee on mongers by asking WGs to pay 50% (or XX%) of WG's session income to them like normal brothels, this will surely raise (possibly double) the session price for mongers and the mongers still have to pay their entrance fee.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2346152]Nobody here argues over 50 euro. But 50 x X euro. With 100 rooms a year, that is 5000 euro.

Your billionaire may make his income from shoes sold at a price of 51 euro each. Take away 'only 50 euro', and he probably wouldn't even be a millionaire even.[/QUOTE]You can believe whatever you want.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2346185]Aphro level of looks is lower on average than Globe. Most of Aphro girls can t work at Globe, no Megan, no Joana at Aphro. I think Globe girls pay about 30 from 140 to Globe. Ask Aphro girls how much they pay from 280, they have to pay for our free drinks. Big turn over at Aphro because slow business, too expensive for level of looks, most often quite empty except on few nights. I felt a bit lonely when I was the only guy at 7. 30 pm on a Thursday, more than 40 girls staring, smiling at me, but unfortunately no wow. Girls say they don t like Globe when they can t make good business or when they are fired. Megan told me my advice was excellent, my way to thank her.[/QUOTE]I've been to both clubs multiple times over the last year and it's not true that Globe girls are on average better looking than Aphro. Probably the contrary. Sure Megan is one exception but not every girl at Globe looks like her! I think it would be harder to make it at Aphro because the standard is higher. I like to go to both. They both offer different experiences. There are girls at Aphro with better bodies than Megan for sure. And some with prettier faces. She has a unique combo but it's one girl out of 100 at Globe. For service level Globe is more guaranteed high level service though as the rules are tighter. At Aphro girls are freer.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2346317]With regards to whether the WG's entrance fee should be waived. I think that it is not that simple and several points need to be considered:.[/QUOTE]Nice input, however I disagree in some things.

First of all except for Artemis as you mentioned I don't think that other clubs cost that much to be built. Furniture and all equipment and decor is cheap.

Regarding 10 % return on investment. Well I think they make much more because if you do the math these clubs make around 7-10 million turn over a year. Running expenses (for which I cannily think about payroll cost as the most expensive) are normally much less maybe 50 % of that. So that is around 45-50 % gross profit before taxation. You.

Corporate taxation in Germany is 15 % so there you are what remains in pocket.

[QUOTE=Sebastiane;2346369]I've been to both clubs multiple times over the last year and it's not true that Globe girls are on average better looking than Aphro. Probably the contrary. Sure Megan is one exception but not every girl at Globe looks like her! I think it would be harder to make it at Aphro because the standard is higher. I like to go to both. They both offer different experiences. There are girls at Aphro with better bodies than Megan for sure. And some with prettier faces. She has a unique combo but it's one girl out of 100 at Globe. For service level Globe is more guaranteed high level service though as the rules are tighter. At Aphro girls are freer.[/QUOTE]Megan is not the prettiest for me at Globe, when she was at Sharks. Some are sexier than her at Globe, but unfortunately for me, my eyes didn't see her level for look at Aphro, but average level of looks for more than 40 girls seen, was low for me, these girls couldn't work at Globe because not pretty enough. My bad experience when I drove 1000 kms on this day. Can't say about level in bed. I'm pretty sure Aphro girls pay not far from 80 on 280 to Aphro.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2346379]

Corporate taxation in Germany is 15 % [/QUOTE]Plus 19% value-added tax of all the WG's and monger's entrance fee and other taxes.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Germany[/URL]

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2346379]

Well I think they make much more because if you do the math these clubs make around 7-10 million turn over a year.[/QUOTE]How do you know that? Don't ask me the answer because I don't know it. I didn't say they are not greedy or greedy because I don't know. I just raised the issues which need to be considered when we discuss about whether they are greedy or not.

The point is that current FKK club format is a well tested format and I DO believe that If the owners of clubs have room to lower or eliminate the entrance fee of WGs and even mongers, they will do that because of the competition among FKK clubs in a free market.

Remember Germany is a free-market country and the business in Germany are subject to intense and constant competition from their competitors. If a business is not competitive in terms of its price, it will quickly be out of business.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2346563]Plus 19% value-added tax of all the WG's and monger's entrance fee and other taxes.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Germany[/URL]

How do you know that? Don't ask me the answer because I don't know it. I didn't say they are not greedy or greedy because I don't know. I just raised the issues which need to be considered when we discuss about whether they are greedy or not.

The point is that current FKK club format is a well tested format and I DO believe that If the owners of clubs have room to lower or eliminate the entrance fee of WGs and even mongers, they will do that because of the competition among FKK clubs in a free market..[/QUOTE]You pay VAT when you give an official invoice or receipt. How many times have you got a receipt from your entry? Now you also know why they accept cash only right?

The turnover I mentioned is based on the income they make on a regular day on average visits from both mongers and girls and also sales from the bar.

Yes I also agree it is a well tested format because it gives good profits to the owners the way it works. But I expect to see either reduced entry for mongers or free entry for girls. Yes this will raise competition and at the end both will win, customers (including girls) and owners.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2346563]The point is that current FKK club format is a well tested format and I DO believe that If the owners of clubs have room to lower or eliminate the entrance fee of WGs and even mongers, they will do that because of the competition among FKK clubs in a free market..[/QUOTE]No real competition in FKK land, bad or good casting, many guys are stuck to one club, you see always the same guys at GT, before it was the same at LR, some only go to Sharks. Some only go to cheap sex clubs, some only to AO clubs. Not so many free birds, not many follow girls like me.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2346563]Plus 19% value-added tax of all the WG's and monger's entrance fee and other taxes.
[/QUOTE]But only private persons in Germany pay value-added tax. Companies don't pay these tax.

[QUOTE=Craiova;2346663]But only private persons in Germany pay value-added tax. Companies don't pay these tax.[/QUOTE]I know. WGs and mongers pay value-added tax and FKK clubs collect this tax for the government. For example, a monger pays a FKK club 50 euro as his entrance fee. Technically this 50 euro should be 42 euro plus 8 euro value-added tax (42 euro X 19%) and this 8 euro value-added tax has to be given to the Government. I was pointing out that the club turnover in Pksimar69's post included this valued-add tax, which shouldn't be counted when the clubs calculate their profit because they must pay this tax to the government.

I was with a pretty 21 year old civilian blonde last week. Looks wise, she could compete with the best I ever had in any FKK in my life. We were hot and heavy, made out on the couch for some time and I requested we take a sensual shower together which I enjoy thoroughly. She wasn't too sure because she didn't want to get her hair wet but agreed to please me. Shower was very nice, we made out more in the shower, soaped and washed each other nicely, and then moved to the bedroom. She blew me, then I ate her a little, and I suggested we move to 69. She agreed and positioned her pussy at my mouth and her ass in my nostrils. Boy, even after all that shower and washing, the scent was too strong and not in a pleasant way. I had to hold my breath to continue eating her. After a few minutes I reluctantly called timeout and we moved to other activities. The scent didn't bother me earlier when she was on her back and I ate her, but in 69 it was a bit too much. I love muff diving and her **** was reasonably clean and tasty but all of that came to a premature end due to her anal hygiene issues. Oh well.

Which brings me — one thing I love about FKK girls is that their hygiene is generally very good. Even after getting fucked more times times than I fart in a day, they seem to clean themselves up pretty good. At least to the point where DATY feels pretty clean and rectal scents are not a put off. While I am not a huge fan of eating ass out, with my more regular girls I have partaken that pleasure when in proper mood. Unfortunately, I cannot say the same thing with my civilian girls. Not all of them acquiesce to taking showers at the beginning of sex, some become offended and suspicious and declare haughtily that they are clean if they suspect your motive, and for nearly half of them even pussy is not smelling so nice and clean. Remember, these are not WGs and who have normal daily activities most of the time and I may be fucking them at odd times of the day and it depends on when their last bath might have been; even so, I wish they could be cleaner. Plus, hardly very many girls here use bidet after number two.

Perhaps this is an American girl thing? Almost all of the civilian fucks I experience are based in my native land. I wonder whether this is the same experience you gentlemen out there have felt in your own episodes. My sample size of civilian fucks is not necessarily small and hence I feel like this has been a widespread phenomenon in my experience.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2346679]I know. WGs and mongers pay value-added tax and FKK clubs collect this tax for the government. For example, a monger pays a FKK club 50 euro as his entrance fee. Technically this 50 euro should be 42 euro plus 8 euro value-added tax (42 euro X 19%) and this 8 euro value-added tax has to be given to the Government. I was pointing out that the club turnover in Pksimar69's post included this valued-add tax, which shouldn't be counted when the clubs calculate their profit because they must pay this tax to the government.[/QUOTE]VAT is paid to the government after deducting VAT of expense invoices. In case your VAT from expenses is higher then you claim it back from the authorities. This is how VAT works in Europe.

Secondly and most important VAT is paid to government only when you issue an invoice or a receipt.

How many mongers or girls get a receipt or invoice when they pay entrance? You know the answer.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2346736]VAT is paid to the government after deducting VAT of expense invoices. In case your VAT from expenses is higher then you claim it back from the authorities. This is how VAT works in Europe.

Secondly and most important VAT is paid to government only when you issue an invoice or a receipt.

How many mongers or girls get a receipt or invoice when they pay entrance? You know the answer.[/QUOTE]And you know the BFH decision AZ. : V are 9/17 published at December 5th, 2018 concerning the decision if the club must pay the missing VAT in case working girls haven't done for their sales from sex service.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2346688]I was with a pretty 21 year old civilian blonde last week. Looks wise, she could compete with the best I ever had in any FKK in my life. We were hot and heavy, made out on the couch for some time and I requested we take a sensual shower together which I enjoy thoroughly. She wasn't too sure because she didn't want to get her hair wet but agreed to please me. Shower was very nice, we made out more in the shower, soaped and washed each other nicely, and then moved to the bedroom. She blew me, then I ate her a little, and I suggested we move to 69. She agreed and positioned her pussy at my mouth and her ass in my nostrils. Boy, even after all that shower and washing, the scent was too strong and not in a pleasant way. I had to hold my breath to continue eating her. After a few minutes I reluctantly called timeout and we moved to other activities. The scent didn't bother me earlier when she was on her back and I ate her, but in 69 it was a bit too much. I love muff diving and her **** was reasonably clean and tasty but all of that came to a premature end due to her anal hygiene issues. Oh well..[/QUOTE]For me, Romanian girls have better care and hygiene than most of German girls, some Germans are really very natural, not much sophisticated, average nails and shaving.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2346661]No real competition in FKK land, ...[/QUOTE]If there is no competition, why doesn't GT, LR, Sharks or any other club raise its entrance price to 150 euro? This is my last post on this subject.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2346736]

Secondly and most important VAT is paid to government only when you issue an invoice or a receipt.

[/QUOTE]Unbelievable that you said this! Please read value-added tax part of the following link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Germany#Value-added_tax

(For American readers, value-added tax in Germany is equivalent to sale tax in USA. He essentially said that if a store in US doesn't give you a receipt for the product you purchased, the store legally doesn't have to pay the sale tax of that product to the government)

I don't want to keep discussing. Let's let the readers decide what to take from our posts. This is my last post on this subject.

I think in the club where facility is good like Artemis with gym, in house doctor, solarium, few sauna, two pools, jacuzzi, girls sleeping area, roof top etc etc. 140 entrance for girls are justified.

But in other smaller clubs. With limited space and facility, it can be considered.

On top of that, owner need to deal with authorities, which require a lot of external help like lawyers, accountant, former police consultant etc. These are expensive cost.

For monger 50 euro entrance is good, but when it is like 80 euro it is bit too much for most clubs. The worst is palace, it is 75 euro and look at that limited space facility. For facility, I like the Artemis best. And for price I like GT Bruggen in summer with big garden and it is only 50 euro to enter.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2346874]I think in the club where facility is good like Artemis with gym, in house doctor, solarium, few sauna, two pools, jacuzzi, girls sleeping area, roof top etc etc. 140 entrance for girls are justified.

But in other smaller clubs. With limited space and facility, it can be considered.

On top of that, owner need to deal with authorities, which require a lot of external help like lawyers, accountant, former police consultant etc. These are expensive cost.

For monger 50 euro entrance is good, but when it is like 80 euro it is bit too much for most clubs. The worst is palace, it is 75 euro and look at that limited space facility. For facility, I like the Artemis best. And for price I like GT Bruggen in summer with big garden and it is only 50 euro to enter.[/QUOTE]GT Bruggen and LR have entry 60, not 50, with free beer, but very average foods most of time now. Too expensive for me for what became LR, and GT garden is not on level compare to Vanilla, Sharks, Oase or World. Every day, Oase is 50 before 4 pm and Palace is 50 before 5 pm. Sharks can be 45 every Monday. Aca Gold is 25 before 2 pm.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2346810]If there is no competition, why doesn't GT, LR, Sharks or any other club raise its entrance price to 150 euro? This is my last post on this subject.

Unbelievable that you said this! Please read value-added tax part of the following link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Germany#Value-added_tax

(For American readers, value-added tax in Germany is equivalent to sale tax in USA. He essentially said that if a store in US doesn't give you a receipt for the product you purchased, the store legally doesn't have to pay the sale tax of that product to the government)

I don't want to keep discussing. Let's let the readers decide what to take from our posts. This is my last post on this subject.[/QUOTE]From your own link.

'The amount payable is the value-added tax it has invoiced, minus any amounts of deductible input tax.'

You probably don't know how VAT works.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2346874]I think in the club where facility is good like Artemis with gym, in house doctor, solarium, few sauna, two pools, jacuzzi, girls sleeping area, roof top etc etc. 140 entrance for girls are justified.

But in other smaller clubs. With limited space and facility, it can be considered.

On top of that, owner need to deal with authorities, which require a lot of external help like lawyers, accountant, former police consultant etc. These are expensive cost.

For monger 50 euro entrance is good, but when it is like 80 euro it is bit too much for most clubs. The worst is palace, it is 75 euro and look at that limited space facility. For facility, I like the Artemis best. And for price I like GT Bruggen in summer with big garden and it is only 50 euro to enter.[/QUOTE]Oase entry for 40 euro for 2 hours is also a fair and reasonable entry.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2346810]If there is no competition, why doesn't GT, LR, Sharks or any other club raise its entrance price to 150 euro? This is my last post on this subject.[/QUOTE]LR is empty most of times, except on Saturdays evening, and 60 is expensive for foods quality and club services when you don't drink 10 free beer. Sharks is not anymore so crowded, no wait for room when they closed elephant room and few others. Yes, GT could increase entry, mainly for party, but then Germans would cry, even they don't make the business at GT, as they cried when hour became for 100, when Bab or Bernds were for 100 since long time.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2346939]GT Bruggen and LR have entry 60, not 50, with free beer, but very average foods most of time now. Too expensive for me for what became LR, and GT garden is not on level compare to Vanilla, Sharks, Oase or World. Every day, Oase is 50 before 4 pm and Palace is 50 before 5 pm. Sharks can be 45 every Monday. Aca Gold is 25 before 2 pm.[/QUOTE]My bad, I just remember it is cheaper than other main places. 60 is still good deal and I do like garden and restaurant set up there with Russian borscht soup sometimes. LR for 60 is bit too much, it basically a house with mini garden.

New Palace deal is fair enough considering that clubs size. No where to escape and breath club.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2346971]Oase entry for 40 euro for 2 hours is also a fair and reasonable entry.[/QUOTE]Only been to Oase once, but in summer that club is nice. Just did not like main bar area as you enter. It was too dark to see girls face. Downstairs with restaurant area has good light to see girls face.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2347175]LR is empty most of times, except on Saturdays evening, and 60 is expensive for foods quality and club services when you don't drink 10 free beer. Sharks is not anymore so crowded, no wait for room when they closed elephant room and few others. Yes, GT could increase entry, mainly for party, but then Germans would cry, even they don't make the business at GT, as they cried when hour became for 100, when Bab or Bernds were for 100 since long time.[/QUOTE]I have to say one of the chef guy at LR is really really nice guy with fantastic smile. Food is not so good yeah, but custard pudding and pasta are safer bet there comparison to other food there. Only good thing about LR is service level of girls being high, even for 50 euro session.

I am not in FKK to eat, but considering you are stuck there to eat dinner, sometimes even two dinners if you stay long, I would like it if they level up the food. I would say, clubs to stick to pasta with different sauce and pizzas and salad bar, so you cannot go terribly wrong. I also would like soup like they sometimes have OK one at GT.

The worst is Artemis for food. Considering owner is Turkish, it would be nice if they just open kebab car front of club, that would be extra income for owner because we all end up there LOL.

I think beside everyday fucking that making FKK girls bones to go wider as years go by and thus ass bigger. It is also actually food they eat at the club making their ass expand in size as years go by in FKK. When you find new young girl at FKK, you must fuck her a lot at the beginning because soon her ass is bigger, she has plastic liquid bags in her boobs, Botox, tattoos among other things as she get polluted into FKK environment.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2347306]I think beside everyday fucking that making FKK girls bones to go wider as years go by and thus ass bigger. It is also actually food they eat at the club making their ass expand in size as years go by in FKK. When you find new young girl at FKK, you must fuck her a lot at the beginning because soon her ass is bigger, she has plastic liquid bags in her boobs, Botox, tattoos among other things as she get polluted into FKK environment.[/QUOTE]You blame it in the food now for their ass getting bigger? LOL I thought it was only. The day fucking thing.

Next tine you find new young girl at FKK tell her to fuck only with you because if she does it on a daily basis her bones will get wider and her ass bigger, hahaha.

Regarding food Palace has also good food and that because the chef is Greek.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2347306]I have to say one of the chef guy at LR is really really nice guy with fantastic smile. Food is not so good yeah, but custard pudding and pasta are safer bet there comparison to other food there. Only good thing about LR is service level of girls being high, even for 50 euro session.

I am not in FKK to eat, but considering you are stuck there to eat dinner, sometimes even two dinners if you stay long, I would like it if they level up the food. I would say, clubs to stick to pasta with different sauce and pizzas and salad bar, so you cannot go terribly wrong. I also would like soup like they sometimes have OK one at GT.

I think beside everyday fucking that making FKK girls bones to go wider as years go by and thus ass bigger. It is also actually food they eat at the club making their ass expand in size as years go by in FKK. When you find new young girl at FKK, you must fuck her a lot at the beginning because soon her ass is bigger, she has plastic liquid bags in her boobs, Botox, tattoos among other things as she get polluted into FKK environment.[/QUOTE]LR bald cooker moved to GT, yes 1 LR cooker is really funny, but foods became often very average, at 9. 30 pm nothing anymore to eat in a club closing at 4 am, midnight pizzas are lower quality than before, when you can eat until 2 am at Sharks or Oase, until 1 am at small Gold. When I used to call LR my little Globe in Germany on 2016 and 2017 with great girls like Daria who asked for love, high potential in bed Jeni. Ro and Melissa. Bu, my best FKK girl Eve who played chic, claiming to be selective, but my LR girls on 2019 were not on same level, some new don't even kiss, even little Eva is real fire in bed. When could watch Rolland Garros on June 2016 , or Austin Formula 1 on October 2016, only Bundesliga for staff and friends now, and less clients, and I m sure management is more responsible than me about what became LR. 60 € entry is expensive for this, when you don't go for free beer and level of girls is not anymore higher than elsewhere in Germany, I found higher level girls at Gold or Vanilla, Oase.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2345061]Many clubs charge over 100 e a day for entry for the girls. This is outrageous. And also why a club like Acapulco who does not charge these outrageous amounts are able to attract top girls even when their 30 min rate is just 40 euro. Acapulco has after what I know managed to hold the entry price for girls as low as 35 euro.[/QUOTE]If WGs stopped paying over a 100 e a day for entry, the clubs would probably be forced to lower the entry. But thousands of WGs will gladly pay that exorbitant entry fee, if it gives them the potential to earn that big money. Many of the clubs that charge WGs over a 100 e day are clubs where the WGs have access to several coveted male demographics: (1) sex tourists, (2) Asians, (3) businessmen, (4) upper class clientele, (5) clientele that are so drunk and drugged out that they will lose track of their money, etc.

This is no different to people who will pay exorbitant amounts to rent or purchase homes in cities like London, NYC, SF, and Zurich: they simply want access to high paying jobs.

Frankfurt RLD is also prime real estate, 125 EUR to rent a room per day: [URL]https://www.roteshaus.com/mieterinnen[/URL].

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2347574]You blame it in the food now for their ass getting bigger? LOL I thought it was only. The day fucking thing.

Next tine you find new young girl at FKK tell her to fuck only with you because if she does it on a daily basis her bones will get wider and her ass bigger, hahaha.

Regarding food Palace has also good food and that because the chef is Greek.[/QUOTE]Well in FKK girls are shared and on average girls fuck about minimum 500 different penis every year or more. Wow do the math, how many guys these girls have had in their life. It is NASA numbers LOL.

It is amazing though, how many pounding these girls pussies can take because usually when they come to FKK, they stay like few weeks working almost everyday. Their pussies must be stretched after awhile in FKK, but somehow I sometimes find girls with tight pussies. It must be to do with genes.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2346379]Nice input, however I disagree in some things.

First of all except for Artemis as you mentioned I don't think that other clubs cost that much to be built. Furniture and all equipment and decor is cheap.

Regarding 10 % return on investment. Well I think they make much more because if you do the math these clubs make around 7-10 million turn over a year. Running expenses (for which I cannily think about payroll cost as the most expensive) are normally much less maybe 50 % of that. So that is around 45-50 % gross profit before taxation. You.

Corporate taxation in Germany is 15 % so there you are what remains in pocket.[/QUOTE]I think payroll cost is hardly at over 20%. 10-15% most likely. And 5-10% in food cost considering the cheap factory food Artemis buys in. So Artemis is a goldmine, and the construction was paid back after probably just 2 years. Beyond that it hoes straight to the pocket of the owners.

50 e entry for guys, and 35 euro entry for girls (25 e tax included), then mainly considering food expenses would still give the owners a very healthy investment risk return!

[QUOTE=MrHo;2347675]Well in FKK girls are shared and on average girls fuck about minimum 500 different penis every year or more. Wow do the math, how many guys these girls have had in their life. It is NASA numbers LOL.

It is amazing though, how many pounding these girls pussies can take because usually when they come to FKK, they stay like few weeks working almost everyday. Their pussies must be stretched after awhile in FKK, but somehow I sometimes find girls with tight pussies. It must be to do with genes.[/QUOTE]It is indeed amazing how many penis they take. Maybe it gets stretched and gets back to shape those 3-4 days of month they have their days? Who knows.

But just remember that these pussies give birth so you get an idea how amazing anatomy they have right?

[QUOTE=MrHo;2347257]My bad, I just remember it is cheaper than other main places. 60 is still good deal and I do like garden and restaurant set up there with Russian borscht soup sometimes. LR for 60 is bit too much, it basically a house with mini garden.

New Palace deal is fair enough considering that clubs size. No where to escape and breath club.[/QUOTE]Not cheaper than Sharks or Oase or Palace. I learned: things can change, sometimes up, sometimes down. When you spend whole day and are far from your home, even I don't go for gastronomic French foods level, but more enjoyable to eat quite good, not to have nothing anymore to eat at 9.30 pm when it would have been your first meal of the day, because you ran at work whole day and then drove 5 hours, but of course girls will always stay the most important and even more important than clubs. But 60 for average foods and very average casting is not so cheap for me, when Vanilla entry is 30, with a real beautiful garden with swimming pool, a rare beautiful face in FKK land, even at Globe, and real woman for love in bed, Gold is 25 with 2 high GFE girls and another so sweet, cute Indira.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2347689]I think payroll cost is hardly at over 20%. 10-15% most likely. And 5-10% in food cost considering the cheap factory food Artemis buys in. So Artemis is a goldmine, and the construction was paid back after probably just 2 years. Beyond that it hoes straight to the pocket of the owners.

50 e entry for guys, and 35 euro entry for girls (25 e tax included), then mainly considering food expenses would still give the owners a very healthy investment risk return![/QUOTE]If you really think about it their running expenses are limited.

Payroll, electricity, water, food, hygiene materials, and maybe the maintenance of a pool and outside area for those who have. Fixed assets are considered as first year investment even the air co in rooms. They even have the same expenses no matter how many mongers visit, the food, the robs, the slippers will always be the same. So goldmine is not only Artemis but all clubs IMO.

Even when we see one club shutting down the owner has another one more profitable.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2347752]It is indeed amazing how many penis they take. Maybe it gets stretched and gets back to shape those 3-4 days of month they have their days? Who knows.

But just remember that these pussies give birth so you get an idea how amazing anatomy they have right?[/QUOTE]LOL comparing birth of baby to penis pounding? LOL LOL.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2347777]Not cheaper than Sharks or Oase or Palace. I learned: things can change, sometimes up, sometimes down. When you spend whole day and are far from your home, even I don't go for gastronomic French foods level, but more enjoyable to eat quite good, not to have nothing anymore to eat at 9.30 pm when it would have been your first meal of the day, because you ran at work whole day and then drove 5 hours, but of course girls will always stay the most important and even more important than clubs. But 60 for average foods and very average casting is not so cheap for me, when Vanilla entry is 30, with a real beautiful garden with swimming pool, a rare beautiful face in FKK land, even at Globe, and real woman for love in bed, Gold is 25 with 2 high GFE girls and another so sweet, cute Indira.[/QUOTE]When FKK change, most of time, it is for worst LOL.

After all, line up and service is most important, for me lineup is most important actually. Service I can negotiate.

[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2347951]If you really think about it their running expenses are limited.

Payroll, electricity, water, food, hygiene materials, and maybe the maintenance of a pool and outside area for those who have. Fixed assets are considered as first year investment even the air co in rooms. They even have the same expenses no matter how many mongers visit, the food, the robs, the slippers will always be the same. So goldmine is not only Artemis but all clubs IMO.

Even when we see one club shutting down the owner has another one more profitable.[/QUOTE]True, and especially in markets without competition. Nrw is the only market with good competition. Hessen has some signs of decent competition too, but it still has a way left compared to nrw. Which is where the prices shows signs of nearing up on the equilibrium. Just the fact that we sometimes have seen club closures in that area is a healthy sign. Penelope was the last one to close I believe.

Berlin, all of Switzerland, most of Austria (even if the taxes are higher there) and many other places in Germany are far from equilibrium. And pure goldmines.

But unless clubs innovate, a cheaper entry fee is not enough. Just look at Andiamo's troubles compared to Wellcum. But I wonder how well Babylon Elsdorf does now after their 'upgrade'. While other clubs like Oase and Acapulco hasn't raised priced at all after large renovations.

I also heard the new owners of the Acapulco Velbert building are two women. So I wonder if that is a good thing. Maybe it means they are less greedy, and don't want to rob the girls like some male owners tend to.

GT and LR seems to be able to hold their prices up because Germans, dutch and others don't like Turkish men (women is a whole other story, but we all know that, LOL) So there is a double market going on in nrw. And the willingness to pay is also quite racist. But this is nothing exclusive to Germany nor FKK's. In Singapore and Geylang for example, the locals took this to the extreme. And it was all about 'helping' one owner whom they liked. Even if other houses had much hotter and better girls. They just didn't like the owners there.

[URL]https://www.insider.com/berlin-was-built-on-nightlife-now-under-threat-from-gentrification-2019-1[/URL]

This article provides some insights into the issues of nightclubs in Berlin. Granted, it is not about FKK but perhaps some of the dynamics are similar. I had never been inside Berghain, anyone know what it is like? Seems like it is one of the largest and most successful, and yet they say it's rev is just 5+ mil and a net profit of slightly more than a mil. Also highlights the challenges related to real estate renewals, of raising credit driven funding for a risky venture like clubs, and so forth. One thing I did not get any details is the cost of licenses — alcohol license, sex club license, whatever other licenses one needs to run an FKK and how that compares to a club like Berghain. I wonder how difficult it is to obtain a sex club license vs some other nightclub licenses.

The challenge of raising money through bank loans for these clubs might explain why many of them are supposedly owned by HA and other such groups.

The article says party tourists bring in a billion into Berlin economy annually. Not a bad sum. Us sex mongers are probably a lot more insignificant.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2348149]I had never been inside Berghain, anyone know what it is like? Seems like it is one of the largest and most successful, and yet they say it's rev is just 5+ mil and a net profit of slightly more than a mil. The challenge of raising money through bank loans for these clubs might explain why many of them are supposedly owned by HA and other such groups.[/QUOTE]Berghain is supposedly one of the hardest clubs to get into. Where there is drugs, there is always criminal gangs. Bouncers control which dealers are allowed to sell, which is why bouncers often are members of the gangs themselves: [URL]https://www.dw.com/en/drugs-in-berlin-half-of-partiers-periodically-take-amphetamines-and-mdma/a-42494769[/URL].

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2348149]The article says party tourists bring in a billion into Berlin economy annually. Not a bad sum. Us sex mongers are probably a lot more insignificant.[/QUOTE]Supposedly $18 billion a year Germany wide. Conservatively let's say $1-2 billion a year from sex tourists. [URL]https://www.havocscope.com/revenue-from-the-legal-sex-industry-in-germany/[/URL].

On a side note, Berlin is also famous for a nightclub where partygoers openly and hedonistically use drugs and partake in sexual orgies with strangers: [URL]https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/inside-kitkatclub-berlin-brit-who-13367808[/URL].

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2348477]Berghain is supposedly one of the hardest clubs to get into. Where there is drugs, there is always criminal gangs. Bouncers control which dealers are allowed to sell, which is why bouncers often are members of the gangs themselves: [URL]https://www.dw.com/en/drugs-in-berlin-half-of-partiers-periodically-take-amphetamines-and-mdma/a-42494769[/URL].

Supposedly $18 billion a year Germany wide. Conservatively let's say $1-2 billion a year from sex tourists. [URL]https://www.havocscope.com/revenue-from-the-legal-sex-industry-in-germany/[/URL].

On a side note, Berlin is also famous for a nightclub where partygoers openly and hedonistically use drugs and partake in sexual orgies with strangers: [URL]https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/inside-kitkatclub-berlin-brit-who-13367808[/URL].[/QUOTE]I hear biker gang control the bouncer company scene.

2018, in the Frankfurt area, DB and RMV train kiosk machines where changed and updated. I discovered I can use my credit card to buy my train ticket. I like it a lot.

2019, in the Dusseldorf area, I could not use my credit card to buy my train ticket. I can use my debit card. At first, I did not like entering my pass code but I did and there was no problems.

I traveled from AAchen, Germany to Lemiers, Netherlands on the bus going to Sixsens. The bus driver accepted my credit card. 3 euros.

Back home in the US, I use my credit card for almost ALL my purchases. In Germany, I used my credit card for my super market and gift purchases.

It minimized the number of times I pulled cash out of the ATM's for the girls. Maybe in the future the girls will take credit cards. Ha, ha.

[QUOTE=Kawaii50;2349166]2018, in the Frankfurt area, DB and RMV train kiosk machines where changed and updated. I discovered I can use my credit card to buy my train ticket. I like it a lot.

2019, in the Dusseldorf area, I could not use my credit card to buy my train ticket. I can use my debit card. At first, I did not like entering my pass code but I did and there was no problems.

I traveled from AAchen, Germany to Lemiers, Netherlands on the bus going to Sixsens. The bus driver accepted my credit card. 3 euros.

Back home in the US, I use my credit card for almost ALL my purchases. In Germany, I used my credit card for my super market and gift purchases.

It minimized the number of times I pulled cash out of the ATM's for the girls. Maybe in the future the girls will take credit cards. Ha, ha.[/QUOTE]Try to use a credit card in FKK. LOL.

With the current heat wave rolling in, what are the best clubs for staying cool. I know GT has the garden and AC in the cabins, SS has AC and the pool. If I want to session without melting on the lady, what are my other best options.

Not that much. Maybe Samya has AC but I'm not sure.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2348477]Berghain is supposedly one of the hardest clubs to get into.[/QUOTE]Berghain sells tickets to events. Buy a ticket 12 Euros for a DJ set.

[QUOTE=Chongmal]
With the current heat wave rolling in, what are the best clubs for staying cool. I know GT has the garden and AC in the cabins, SS has AC and the pool. If I want to session without melting on the lady, what are my other best options.[/QUOTE]Coliseum in Augsberg is like a sauna up in the rooms. My lady wanted to do it in the Cinema room on the open bed because the room has AC. Not sure I'd recommend the Coli. On the other hand, bet there are less guys and maybe you're an exhibitionist.

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2350726]With the current heat wave rolling in, what are the best clubs for staying cool. I know GT has the garden and AC in the cabins, SS has AC and the pool. If I want to session without melting on the lady, what are my other best options.[/QUOTE]The heat wave will last maximum 3 more days, it is summer time in Europe, World has AC in most of the rooms but a average poor LU.

Might be worth visiting a public FKK sauna bath house venue while in Deutschland.

Dusseldorf, Cologne, Frankfurt.

Any tips suggestions or stories to tell.

Naked real world women to see.

Are these Sauna houses any good or a bit boring?

Also, at regular public gyms in Germany do members use the saunas and steam rooms naked?

[QUOTE=Karlo7;2352215]Might be worth visiting a public FKK sauna bath house venue while in Deutschland.

Dusseldorf, Cologne, Frankfurt.

Any tips suggestions or stories to tell.

Naked real world women to see.

Are these Sauna houses any good or a bit boring?

Also, at regular public gyms in Germany do members use the saunas and steam rooms naked?[/QUOTE]Stuttgart has a great sauna, with casino, and hotel, my favorite place when I do escort there, Frankfurt has also 2 great one and Koblenz, there is far more erotic in a public sauna and you really can see fresh beautiful German girls, with no sili, great skin 170+ high nothing to compare with mostly short Romanian girls.

You're more likely to find 50 yo women and I don't think it will be so erotic.

I have had some requests to try to conclude my impressions and thoughts from my mongering in Germany.

First a little about me. I'm in my fourties and I have been on the road for 25 years as a salesman and engineer. I started my mongering career about 10 month ago and have no previous experience from working ladies. Except from FKK I have during this period been to 1st erotic massage parlour and 1st bordello as a reference.

The last 10 month I have visited 19 different FKK / saunaclubs and done a total of 27 visits and approx. 54 girls all over Germany. When I do something I tend to do it thoroughly and yes I am a bit crazy as well I know that.

A lot of people ask "which Club is the best? That is impossible to answer since it is totally depending on what you like and that in turn depend on your references / background / culture / etc.

Because I have spent approx. 1/4 of my life on hotels I do a parable. I am a poor farm boy from beginning I am not used to luxury. When I started living at hotels I really liked those fancy hotels, gold, marble and glass. 24 hours service and piccolos carrying your suitcase, high end international cuisine.

Now I hate those hotels. I do not feel at home in those places so my body is in a constant high alert mode pumping out stress hormones.

Today I choose those small, privately owned, hotels on the countryside where I can have a walk in nature and a nice, rustic, no fancy pancy bullshit, meal. If I find a cockroach I just have a talk with him about not touching my stuff and that's it.

No boss complain about this since it is cheaper. It is also cheaper for me since everything around the fancy hotel is more expensive. In the expensive hotel you have to pay 5 euro for a bottle of water, in the cheap hotel it is included. If you want a extra, like a beer or a sandwish, it is a fraction of the cost and is also delivered with a warm smile and some chit chat instead of packed in a plastic container.

You see the parallells here?

I have found out exactly what I want. I like two things.

1. Medium sized clubs on the countryside for relax, eat and fuck.

2. Red carpet clubs for pure fucking.

The only inconvinience is the light. I am like Gollum in lord of the rings.

My best setup would be to crawl around in a dirty dark techno club in the night. This club should be connected to a cold, damp, dark cave I could sleep in a couple of hours and then there should be a connection to a redlighted FKK with Romanian beauties. Tuck in a Turkish kebap venue, a small office and a ATM and I would never see daylight again! Nirvana.

So which club is best for me? I try to locate clubs I like in the areas I visit.

I like Rom and Dietz in Hessen. Babylon and Grimberg in NRW. Hawaii in Mnich. Harmony and Romeo in Hamburg.

[QUOTE=FuckedUpSwede;2352506]I like Rom and Dietz in Hessen. Babylon and Grimberg in NRW. Hawaii in Munich. Harmony and Romeo in Hamburg.[/QUOTE]Only thing I would say is that it's quite a stretch to call FKK Hawaii a Munich club. It's in Ingolstadt, which I know from experience is a very, very long drive from the city center of Munich.

[QUOTE=FuckedUpSwede;2352506]I have had some requests to try to conclude my impressions and thoughts from my mongering in Germany.

First a little about me. I'm in my fourties and I have been on the road for 25 years as a salesman and engineer. I started my mongering career about 10 month ago and have no previous experience from working ladies. Except from FKK I have during this period been to 1st erotic massage parlour and 1st bordello as a reference.

The last 10 month I have visited 19 different FKK / saunaclubs and done a total of 27 visits and approx. 54 girls all over Germany. When I do something I tend to do it thoroughly and yes I am a bit crazy as well I know that.

A lot of people ask "which Club is the best? That is impossible to answer since it is totally depending on what you like and that in turn depend on your references / background / culture / etc.

Because I have spent approx. 1/4 of my life on hotels I do a parable. I am a poor farm boy from beginning I am not used to luxury. When I started living at hotels I really liked those fancy hotels, gold, marble and glass. 24 hours service and piccolos carrying your suitcase, high end international cuisine.

Now I hate those hotels. I do not feel at home in those places so my body is in a constant high alert mode pumping out stress hormones.

Today I choose those small, privately owned, hotels on the countryside where I can have a walk in nature and a nice, rustic, no fancy pancy bullshit, meal. If I find a cockroach I just have a talk with him about not touching my stuff and that's it..[/QUOTE]Sorry but I am only looking for fresh natural beauties and I tried several times Dietz, Rom, Babylon and there were only cheap prostitute there, not one classy and young girl, may be for mechanical sex there are the right places but many times I left without any session.

[QUOTE=FuckedUpSwede;2352506]I have had some requests to try to conclude my impressions and thoughts from my mongering in Germany.

First a little about me. I'm in my fourties and I have been on the road for 25 years as a salesman and engineer. I started my mongering career about 10 month ago and have no previous experience from working ladies. Except from FKK I have during this period been to 1st erotic massage parlour and 1st bordello as a reference.

The last 10 month I have visited 19 different FKK / saunaclubs and done a total of 27 visits and approx. 54 girls all over Germany. When I do something I tend to do it thoroughly and yes I am a bit crazy as well I know that.

A lot of people ask "which Club is the best? That is impossible to answer since it is totally depending on what you like and that in turn depend on your references / background / culture / etc.

Because I have spent approx. 1/4 of my life on hotels I do a parable. I am a poor farm boy from beginning I am not used to luxury. When I started living at hotels I really liked those fancy hotels, gold, marble and glass. 24 hours service and piccolos carrying your suitcase, high end international cuisine.

Now I hate those hotels. I do not feel at home in those places so my body is in a constant high alert mode pumping out stress hormones.

Today I choose those small, privately owned, hotels on the countryside where I can have a walk in nature and a nice, rustic, no fancy pancy bullshit, meal. If I find a cockroach I just have a talk with him about not touching my stuff and that's it..[/QUOTE]Thanks for a wonderful report. I'll make sure to read your others. Harmony is the only club from those on your list I know and it was a great one! I think you'd love Colosseum in Augsburg and also Sakura in Stuttgart. Do try Globe too in Switzerland also the high-end Club Aphrodisia on your FKK adventures.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2352646]Only thing I would say is that it's quite a stretch to call FKK Hawaii a Munich club. It's in Ingolstadt, which I know from experience is a very, very long drive from the city center of Munich.[/QUOTE]Its a 30 min drive from the airport? I have no problem driving that distance for a good club. I never live in central Munich since it is always fully booked when I need to go to the messe. Last time I lived in Augsburg, drove to rhe messe, drove to Ingolstadt and then back to Augsburg. Next time I will stay in Ingolstadt.

I think most readers of this forum arrive at the airport, because of this I find it fair to say Hawaii is in the area.

[QUOTE=FuckedUpSwede;2352741]Its a 30 min drive from the airport? I have no problem driving that distance for a good club. I never live in central Munich since it is always fully booked when I need to go to the messe. Last time I lived in Augsburg, drove to rhe messe, drove to Ingolstadt and then back to Augsburg. Next time I will stay in Ingolstadt.

I think most readers of this forum arrive at the airport, because of this I find it fair to say Hawaii is in the area.[/QUOTE]Obviously to drive his own car is a great plus to monger in Germany otherwise you will need a lot of time and energy to travel to the club.

[QUOTE=FuckedUpSwede;2352741]Its a 30 min drive from the airport? I have no problem driving that distance for a good club. I never live in central Munich since it is always fully booked when I need to go to the messe. Last time I lived in Augsburg, drove to rhe messe, drove to Ingolstadt and then back to Augsburg. Next time I will stay in Ingolstadt.

I think most readers of this forum arrive at the airport, because of this I find it fair to say Hawaii is in the area.[/QUOTE]Ingolstadt is about 80 km north of Munich, and the airport about 10 km, so Ingolstadt is about 70 km from the airport. About a 50-minute drive.

[QUOTE=FuckedUpSwede;2352506]I have had some requests to try to conclude my impressions and thoughts from my mongering in Germany.

So which club is best for me? I try to locate clubs I like in the areas I visit.

I like Rom and Dietz in Hessen. Babylon and Grimberg in NRW. Hawaii in Mnich. Harmony and Romeo in Hamburg.[/QUOTE]Thank you so much FuckedUpSwede for your most entertaining and absolutely believeable reports which have added so much to our forum. These reports are up there with the very best. Your writing style is so reminiscent of our very greatest members LaBambaBoy Pessimist Pksimar69 and Bitumin to name but a few. Keep up the terrific work. I and many others look forward to reading about your entertaining accurate and truthful adventures in this forum and hopefully one day perhaps bumping into you in Oase or Sharks or perhaps another club and hearing your tall tales first hand. On behalf of myself and many other members I say thank you.

Hello Gents,

I have been out of the scene for a while. Couple of years. I was wondering if there were any new big clubs / must visit venues I should put on my radar?.

Thanks in advance.

[QUOTE=Apollyon;2352984]Thank you so much FuckedUpSwede for your most entertaining and absolutely believeable reports which have added so much to our forum. These reports are up there with the very best. Your writing style is so reminiscent of our very greatest members LaBambaBoy Pessimist Pksimar69 and Bitumin to name but a few. Keep up the terrific work. I and many others look forward to reading about your entertaining accurate and truthful adventures in this forum and hopefully one day perhaps bumping into you in Oase or Sharks or perhaps another club and hearing your tall tales first hand. On behalf of myself and many other members I say thank you.[/QUOTE]Thank you, it warms my heart!

I tend to review not so much the girls but more the general feeling of the place and I have got reactions that there are big difference in the quality of looks for the girls in the places I write about and make similarities between.

Looks of girls is really not so important for me if they only have something that turn me on. I do not need perfect ass, tits, waist, face AND personality at the same time. If a girl is in a good playful mood and have a killer ass it can turn me on as hell! Then I will concentrate on the ass and can ignore saggy tits and / or a bit ugliness. I will just drench her in baby oil and slip around on her ass like bit of butter in a hot pan!

If she got nice big natural tits the baby oil goes between them and I dive into the gap like a horny walrus.

Sometime it is enough with a really perverted proposal from a not so attractive girl to get my blood to boil and lure me to a zimmer.

I also have times when I get really turned on by a girl just by her perfect optics and I feel I just need to bang her. I do not even try to start a conversation with her, only "you, me, kino, 50 eur?" But normally the standard slim Romanian 20-25 year beauty do not get my money since I will not remember her.

I love fucking and like a varied diet!

[QUOTE=CheekyDancer;2352999]Hello Gents,

I have been out of the scene for a while. Couple of years. I was wondering if there were any new big clubs / must visit venues I should put on my radar?.

Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]I went back and looked at your posts for areas. Maybe wrong but you have hit the Frankfurt area deeply, and I doubt you would find that much "better". Berlin as well. Have you been to Augsberg?

It's not large but the fact that you approach the girls vs the girls "coming in like sharks to chum" is something I appreciated. Just a thought.

Funny experience recently, a reminder to be on your guard:

WG comes up to me, commence the usual flirting. She's a particularly aggressive one, brushes her hand on my junk. I'm a little wet down there. Ball sweat, precum, postcum, whatever.

Eventually, she gets the message that I'm not buying, and goes on to a new flirtation, comes up to a man, brushes her hand on his face affectionately. Ha ha, ew.

And that, my friends, is how my bodily fluids wound up on another man's face.

This time I was the giver, but no doubt I've been the receiver before.

It was a little reminder that this is a business. You're just a customer. She's only affectionate to you as long as she thinks she can make a sale.

It's a dirty hobby folks (and I love it so) -- but stay clean out there!

[QUOTE=Apollyon;2352984]Thank you so much FuckedUpSwede for your most entertaining and absolutely believeable reports which have added so much to our forum. These reports are up there with the very best. Your writing style is so reminiscent of our very greatest members LaBambaBoy Pessimist Pksimar69 and Bitumin to name but a few. Keep up the terrific work. I and many others look forward to reading about your entertaining accurate and truthful adventures in this forum and hopefully one day perhaps bumping into you in Oase or Sharks or perhaps another club and hearing your tall tales first hand. On behalf of myself and many other members I say thank you.[/QUOTE]I totally agree with Apollyon. However, he is being too modest. His own contributions to this forum have been immense. I would add Optimist, Craiova, Kosher kowboy, and Gino, along with Apollyon to this August group. These members have added a extraordinary amount of information over the years about various clubs, different types of sexual activities one can enjoy in clubs including anal sex and AO sex which are usually not discussed by other shy members. I think we all owe these super members a huge amount of gratitude.

I am making my first FKK trip later this month. I've spent the last few weeks studying up on the forum and the wealth of information has been fantastic.

My original plan was to spend most of my time in / around Frankfurt-- and to spend a day or two at Sharks. My work obligations have changed slightly, and it looks like I need to head to Dortmund for a day. The NRW clubs seem numerous and well thought of, but I am curious if anyone can make a recommendation of a destination if I only have one day to adventure in NRW?

I will have a car, so somewhere with manageable parking is good. Otherwise, I tend to prefer younger, more natural, girls-- but I would probably prefer selection over anything.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2354017]A fellow member recently asked in a post why the forum is so quiet. And why so little hard information is posted. Unfortunately a number of reliable posters have stopped posting anything meaningful as they are wary of the large number of new or resurrected handles which share the same stylistic oddities (despite attempts to cover them) and the same mindset. These reports specialise in congratulating each other and regurgitating information gleaned from other members and other forums. Why this should be so is beyond me. But it is harmful to an effective forum.

So this is a reason for fewer posts than might otherwise have been. Reducing Forum traffic

Like quite a few other members I now consider very carefully before sharing detailed information.[/QUOTE]Good point!

I think there is at least one more reason why it is so quite in the German section on ISG. It all changed summer 2017 when the new law became reality. Different forums choose different approaches to the law. Big German forums banned writing about AO and other now illegal activities I Germany, the big Dutch forum that covers mostly NRW have gone the same way (but without any strict rules as I understand).

ISG went an other way. In this forum members (like Hessen Bub) argued for a cautious way of spreading information. Other members attacked him very hard. Well Hessen Bub left the scene, and the members that likes to write and bragg about daycare and creampies are still here.

The german forum is still verly lively, the Dutch also. Full of good reports with usefull information without discussing illegal activites in an open forum. ISG choose an other way, with another outcome.

T.

[QUOTE=Tjohoo;2354208]Good point!

I think there is at least one more reason why it is so quite in the German section on ISG. It all changed summer 2017 when the new law became reality. Different forums choose different approaches to the law. Big German forums banned writing about AO and other now illegal activities I Germany, the big Dutch forum that covers mostly NRW have gone the same way (but without any strict rules as I understand).

ISG went an other way. In this forum members (like Hessen Bub) argued for a cautious way of spreading information. Other members attacked him very hard. Well Hessen Bub left the scene, and the members that likes to write and bragg about daycare and creampies are still here.

The german forum is still verly lively, the Dutch also. Full of good reports with usefull information without discussing illegal activites in an open forum. ISG choose an other way, with another outcome.

T.[/QUOTE]The German law does not seem to be properly enforced by the police. The major clubs around Frankfurt, for example, have many girls unregistered and that is the most enforceable part of the law! I would like to have the Austrian system applied to the German clubs as well, but it is not happening at the moment.

Rock.

In FKK are they all same as I visited Babylon in Hamburg and there was minimal interaction with the workers. They might ask if you want go room but if not they go away.

Whereas when I was in clubs in Costa Del Sol, the girls are real chatty and grab your dick and so on, its much more fun. Are no FKK clubs like that? If not Ill stick to Spain.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2354017]A fellow member recently asked in a post why the forum is so quiet. And why so little hard information is posted. Unfortunately a number of reliable posters have stopped posting anything meaningful as they are wary of the large number of new or resurrected handles which share the same stylistic oddities (despite attempts to cover them) and the same mindset. These reports specialise in congratulating each other and regurgitating information gleaned from other members and other forums. Why this should be so is beyond me. But it is harmful to an effective forum.

So this is a reason for fewer posts than might otherwise have been. Reducing Forum traffic

Like quite a few other members I now consider very carefully before sharing detailed information.[/QUOTE]I understand and very much share your sentiments and concerns. As you know the ISG Personal Mail system is very useful for contacting one or many ISG Members. I use it a lot and I understand you do as well. Beyond that there is always WhatsApp which many ISG members use effectively. I believe we share membership of one particular group. Although I don't post much I do receive the messages. Activity on the ISG Personal Mail System and other social media may play a small part in the reduction in forum traffic but certainly not the main reason which I believe is as you have stated above. As for the Germany FKK Clubs section of ISG, I guess it is what it is and recent posts in reply to your quoted post (above) would unfortunately indicate that matters won't change very soon.

[QUOTE=DerAuslander;2354302]I understand and very much share your sentiments and concerns. As you know the ISG Personal Mail system is very useful for contacting one or many ISG Members. I use it a lot and I understand you do as well. Beyond that there is always WhatsApp which many ISG members use effectively. I believe we share membership of one particular group. Although I don't post much I do receive the messages. Activity on the ISG Personal Mail System and other social media may play a small part in the reduction in forum traffic but certainly not the main reason which I believe is as you have stated above. As for the Germany FKK Clubs section of ISG, I guess it is what it is and recent posts in reply to your quoted post (above) would unfortunately indicate that matters won't change very soon.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=DerAuslander;2354302]I understand and very much share your sentiments and concerns. As you know the ISG Personal Mail system is very useful for contacting one or many ISG Members. I use it a lot and I understand you do as well. Beyond that there is always WhatsApp which many ISG members use effectively. I believe we share membership of one particular group. Although I don't post much I do receive the messages. Activity on the ISG Personal Mail System and other social media may play a small part in the reduction in forum traffic but certainly not the main reason which I believe is as you have stated above. As for the Germany FKK Clubs section of ISG, I guess it is what it is and recent posts in reply to your quoted post (above) would unfortunately indicate that matters won't change very soon.[/QUOTE]This is accurate. You summarized the state of matters very effectively. As we have discussed in the past, Optimist and his friends have been the good guys and tried to bring order to the German section of ISG. Optimist is a principled monger of the highest order, as is Apollyon and Take Down and also you Mr. Aus Lander. We have to make sure that this forum remains the beacon of information it has been for a long time. Gino is a principled man as well and so are La Bamba, Pessimist, FuckedUpSwede and TheCane. The contributions of these members for many years have been invaluable. Thank you Mr. Aus Lander.

[QUOTE=Tjohoo;2354208]Good point!

I think there is at least one more reason why it is so quite in the German section on ISG. It all changed summer 2017 when the new law became reality. Different forums choose different approaches to the law. Big German forums banned writing about AO and other now illegal activities I Germany, the big Dutch forum that covers mostly NRW have gone the same way (but without any strict rules as I understand).

ISG went an other way. In this forum members (like Hessen Bub) argued for a cautious way of spreading information. Other members attacked him very hard. Well Hessen Bub left the scene, and the members that likes to write and bragg about daycare and creampies are still here.

The german forum is still verly lively, the Dutch also. Full of good reports with usefull information without discussing illegal activites in an open forum. ISG choose an other way, with another outcome.

T.[/QUOTE]Some German forums like Roemer are also facing the same challenges, the clients are changing less and less senior mongers more and more tourists and guys with migration backgrounds not willing to share any info with others.

[QUOTE=Tubeliht;2354358]Gino is a principled man as well and so are La Bamba, Pessimist, FuckedUpSwede [/QUOTE]Hi there my friend. I'm afraid the consensus on social media runs contrary to the above statement. But we are all entitled to our opinion as indeed are you. Get well my friend and keep well.

[B][i]J[/i][/B]

[QUOTE=RatherBigOne;2354215]In FKK are they all same as I visited Babylon in Hamburg and there was minimal interaction with the workers. They might ask if you want go room but if not they go away.

Whereas when I was in clubs in Costa Del Sol, the girls are real chatty and grab your dick and so on, its much more fun. Are no FKK clubs like that? If not Ill stick to Spain.[/QUOTE]Go to Bab Elsdorf or Finca Erotica if you enjoy to be touched dick in lounge, You should even being sucked very fast in public if You want. I hate this kind of prostitute behavior, as I hate girls I didn't choose, rubbing on me. At LR, I visited for only 1 girl, but girls who looked like nothing for me, came to rub on me, I don t know why they came to rub on me when I was not a business for them and they should better go to others, but they didn't. I also don t know why so many girls want to touch my hair, not only when pressing on my head between their legs. I never touch girls before room, only their hands or face.

I have been reciting the qualities of ISG to some colleagues I know on some foreign language forums. The posts being made in recent times really made an impression on them.

[BLUE]Greetings Everyone,

I cleaned up this thread by moving a number of posts to "a new thread titled "Posting Bots in the Forum" in the "Opinions & Editorials" section."

http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4119-Troll-Bots-on-the-Forum

If your report was inadvertently moved in the process, please don't take it personally.

Thanks,

Admin[/BLUE]

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2354575]Go to Bab Elsdorf or Finca Erotica if you enjoy to be touched dick in lounge, You should even being sucked very fast in public if You want. I hate this kind of prostitute behavior, as I hate girls I didn't choose, rubbing on me. At LR, I visited for only 1 girl, but girls who looked like nothing for me, came to rub on me, I don t know why they came to rub on me when I was not a business for them and they should better go to others, but they didn't. I also don t know why so many girls want to touch my hair, not only when pressing on my head between their legs. I never touch girls before room, only their hands or face.[/QUOTE]Same for me, I choose the girl and not the contrary, I pay. I will never accept that a girl touches me without my permission and impossible on top of that to touch my dick, probably her hand are dirty from the other guys:

I don't know if it is a good idea to move those posts to its own section far away from the FKK Germany area. At least as long as the admin is just scratching the surface. New handles will just keep popping up here on the FKK section which the admins doesn't seem to be able to stop.

I don't have a great solution, but moving some posts away discussing the issue way just silence the wrong people.

Oh, and I may know who it is. But I won't write it here due to drama. Maybe in pm's.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2354955]I don't know if it is a good idea to move those posts to its own section far away from the FKK Germany area. At least as long as the admin is just scratching the surface. New handles will just keep popping up here on the FKK section which the admins doesn't seem to be able to stop.

I don't have a great solution, but moving some posts away discussing the issue way just silence the wrong people.

Oh, and I may know who it is. But I won't write it here due to drama. Maybe in pm's.[/QUOTE]I'm sorry, I didn't know where to jump into the conversation, so I chose the end. What I write here is not directed at any specific person, but is an expression of my opinion and what I like and don't care to see posted.

I like to see posts that are informative, posted in the correct thread.

If someone is writing about Sharks, a side trip about ladies from the past who worked at a different club is inappropriate. Posting about current activities at the club, changes of menu, prices, services, etc. Is all relevant. Posts about ladies can be as specific as desired or vague, merely mentioning the name and that she was seen. I personally like lineups.

I don't care to see posts under the Sharks thread about some lady seen 5 years ago at a club in Hamburg or Austria. If she isn't at Sharks today mentioning her now is distracting and not useful. Perhaps there should be a Good Old Days or I Remember When thread. Additionally, if it's not about getting to the club or happening at the club. It's not real helpful. If you are writing about the restaurant in the city or the amusement park, put that on Yelp and leave the sex forum about sex.

I don't like to see posts where certain members aggressively talk down at others. I admit, I have been reprimanded for doing this myself, but some times I see posts where it seems a dick measuring is taking place on the forum. No need for someone to continually try to discredit others.

That is my two cents on how to improve things.

[QUOTE=DerAuslander;2354302]I understand and very much share your sentiments and concerns. As you know the ISG Personal Mail system is very useful for contacting one or many ISG Members. I use it a lot and I understand you do as well. Beyond that there is always WhatsApp which many ISG members use effectively. I believe we share membership of one particular group. Although I don't post much I do receive the messages. Activity on the ISG Personal Mail System and other social media may play a small part in the reduction in forum traffic but certainly not the main reason which I believe is as you have stated above. As for the Germany FKK Clubs section of ISG, I guess it is what it is and recent posts in reply to your quoted post (above) would unfortunately indicate that matters won't change very soon.[/QUOTE]I understand this, but I am trying to continue to contribute. I've not had a lot of message contact, but I am not there all that much (next trip is next year). But man, without the guys who were posting back over a year ago, I would have never had the excellent experiences I had. Kosher, Lanthano, tons of guys helped me prepare and be ready for that first trip (mostly by me combing through old posts and then asking questions to confirm things.) I made sure to contribute back as much as I could!

But I certainly understand why guys have gotten reticent, and the tales of guys using other guys posts against them with the girls in the clubs are just disgusting.

[QUOTE=Jmioffe;2342740]Thanks! I don't want my employer to know what I'm doing in country. I could make up an employer address, but I don't want to have a bad record with Germany, so I suppose I should just pay it, right? What if I just used my friends' address as the company I'm "consulting" for?[/QUOTE]If you have no connection to Germany or tax liability in Germany I think you can lie yourself out of this tax without too much risk. If you need to keep under the German / EU radar for tax or other purposes, better pay.

[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2354860]Same for me, I choose the girl and not the contrary, I pay. I will never accept that a girl touches me without my permission and impossible on top of that to touch my dick, probably her hand are dirty from the other guys:[/QUOTE]It is rare, but I saw some girls not taking shower after going session with client.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2355147]It is rare, but I saw some girls not taking shower after going session with client.[/QUOTE]Not rare at all. It doesn't bother me necessarily.

First. Thanks to all those who post on this forum, and all the specific club forums.

In about a month, I'll going to Germany for some fun and relaxation. My only other experience was at Goldentime in Vienna. Plus plenty of happy ending massages (not Asian) in the USA (I do like the long drawn out tease. And last time at Goldentime I only did some 30 minute sessions. So look forward to changing it up).

If I like some foreplay and flirting. Should I ask for an hour? Any other suggestions on how to get the provider to take it slow? I don't really want to pay for an hour, and then last 15 minutes and she leave.

I plan on going to (not necessarily in this order), FKK Paradise in Stuttgart, FKK Sharks in Frankfurt, FKK Mongerland in Ulm, and FKK Hawaii in Ingolstadt. Any horrible decisions in here? Thought that in the big cities I should go for the big clubs, as the other stops on my trip will be smaller ones.

In Stuttgart I'm somewhat limited on time, and will be there during a Monday afternoon. Which I know will be slow. Sakura seems like too much of an effort to get to for my limited schedule that day (but the facility looks great. I have issues if things look grimy or iffy).

Frankfurt is all wide open, and I think I'll try to spend a most of a day (4 pm-1 AM) or so at a club, so want one where I can have a good experience relaxing between sessions. Get an actual massage, watch some sports, sit poolside and drink a beer, hopefully get away from smoke for a little while. Does Sharks fit the ticket. Or should I try something else?

Any comments / suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I will make sure to post my experiences here.

[QUOTE=Stressedoutsea;2355323]First. Thanks to all those who post on this forum, and all the specific club forums.

In about a month, I'll going to Germany for some fun and relaxation. My only other experience was at Goldentime in Vienna. Plus plenty of happy ending massages (not Asian) in the USA (I do like the long drawn out tease. And last time at Goldentime I only did some 30 minute sessions. So look forward to changing it up).

If I like some foreplay and flirting. Should I ask for an hour? Any other suggestions on how to get the provider to take it slow? I don't really want to pay for an hour, and then last 15 minutes and she leave.

I plan on going to (not necessarily in this order), FKK Paradise in Stuttgart, FKK Sharks in Frankfurt, FKK Mongerland in Ulm, and FKK Hawaii in Ingolstadt. Any horrible decisions in here? Thought that in the big cities I should go for the big clubs, as the other stops on my trip will be smaller ones.

In Stuttgart I'm somewhat limited on time, and will be there during a Monday afternoon. Which I know will be slow. Sakura seems like too much of an effort to get to for my limited schedule that day (but the facility looks great. I have issues if things look grimy or iffy)..[/QUOTE]GT Vienna has a great LU, probably the best I saw in the last 2 years, will be difficult to find a better choice in Germany, paradise: bof, Sakura: bof, Ulm and Ingolstadt are small clubs better to keep your money and energy for bigger one, you should focus on Skark and Oase, for 50 euro you will not get any good experience except mechanical sex.

[QUOTE=Stressedoutsea;2355323]If I like some foreplay and flirting. Should I ask for an hour? Any other suggestions on how to get the provider to take it slow? I don't really want to pay for an hour, and then last 15 minutes and she leave.

I plan on going to (not necessarily in this order), FKK Paradise in Stuttgart, FKK Sharks in Frankfurt, FKK Mongerland in Ulm, and FKK Hawaii in Ingolstadt. Any horrible decisions in here?
Frankfurt is all wide open, and I think I'll try to spend a most of a day (4 pm-1 AM) or so at a club, so want one where I can have a good experience relaxing between sessions. Get an actual massage, watch some sports, sit poolside and drink a beer, hopefully get away from smoke for a little while. Does Sharks fit the ticket.[/QUOTE]I just tell the girl that I'm in no hurry and want to take it slow, if she still rushes I repeat the information. Sometimes they reply "do you want an hour?" I then tell them that "maybe, we will see how long it takes", this usually works pretty well.

Hawaii is my top choice when I visit Mnich, it is a relaxed and clean club.

Sharks is not my top choice in Frankfurt, since I like smaller clubs, but it is not bad. They have good relax, I really like the ice machine for the sauna!, decent food, nice garden and plenty of girls.

Stressedoutsea. Welcome to yet another new member. Have confidence and chat with the girls. Watch everything and go by your instinct.

You, like all of the recent new members should be wary of following other guys' (like me) biases. Explore and find your own gems, and you will be surprised.

[QUOTE=Stressedoutsea;2355323] FKK Hawaii in Ingolstadt.

Any comments / suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I will make sure to post my experiences here.[/QUOTE]I've heard great things on Hawaii. I was going to go there, but people recommended if I could swing my travel schedule to go to Coliseum in Augsburg. It was v. Good. Several people on the message system told me to skip Stuttgart and Nurenburg.

Coliseum is a smaller club but the ratio of women to men was on the good side. The girls don't come up to you, you have to talk to the girls, so there is no pressure and you can relax and look. All details on getting there and first visit on my post in the Coli forum.

I found mostly Romanians, one or two Ukrainians, VERY TALL LEGGY GIRLS. More make up than the Rom, but that might just be the couple girls. Nice outside sitting area, tiny tiny jacuzzi, often filled with some guy or another with a girl or two on the night I went. KINO had girls performing oral couple times when I popped in to check it out and one time there was a woman riding a guy and moaning in the bed in the back area of the KINO. I thought at first it was a comedy, but I realized she thought she sounded authentic. Still I'd go back in a heart beat. BTW, if you go to the German board, Lusthaus, they have a forum that posts the current line up at any given week.

[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2355467]GT Vienna has a great LU, probably the best I saw in the last 2 years, will be difficult to find a better choice in Germany, paradise: bof, Sakura: bof, Ulm and Ingolstadt are small clubs better to keep your money and energy for bigger one, you should focus on Skark and Oase, for 50 euro you will not get any good experience except mechanical sex.[/QUOTE]Many girls seemed to leave GT Vienna because of falling business. I enjoyed 2 at GT. De.

Hi guys, I'm headed to FRA on Thursday next week. I have an idea of my plan in my head but thought I'the ping it past you all to seek feedback. I don't land until 7 pm so by the time I get into the hotel from the airport (staying central FRA) I'm planning:

Thursday. Palace. If no good will jump over to Mainhattan where I've had good times the last 4 visits. Other option is to go straight to Mainhattan?

Friday. Head to Oase for use of the garden / outdoor sex but likely to arrive mid afternoon so early shift will be on and current reports are not positive.

Saturday. Have to work until at least 9 pm so awkward. Likely to hit Mainhattan late.

Sunday. Arrive Sharks 2 pm for rest of day.

Any thoughts / changes ideas? I would appreciate your observations. Thanks.

[QUOTE=PayForIt;2355753]Hi guys, I'm headed to FRA on Thursday next week. I have an idea of my plan in my head but thought I'the ping it past you all to seek feedback. I don't land until 7 pm so by the time I get into the hotel from the airport (staying central FRA) I'm planning:

Thursday. Palace. If no good will jump over to Mainhattan where I've had good times the last 4 visits. Other option is to go straight to Mainhattan?

Friday. Head to Oase for use of the garden / outdoor sex but likely to arrive mid afternoon so early shift will be on and current reports are not positive.

Saturday. Have to work until at least 9 pm so awkward. Likely to hit Mainhattan late.

Sunday. Arrive Sharks 2 pm for rest of day.

Any thoughts / changes ideas? I would appreciate your observations. Thanks.[/QUOTE]I'd hit up Sharks first given its high reputation and then venture to the other clubs.

[QUOTE=PayForIt;2355753]Hi guys, I'm headed to FRA on Thursday next week. I have an idea of my plan in my head but thought I'the ping it past you all to seek feedback. I don't land until 7 pm so by the time I get into the hotel from the airport (staying central FRA) I'm planning:

Thursday. Palace. If no good will jump over to Mainhattan where I've had good times the last 4 visits. Other option is to go straight to Mainhattan?

Friday. Head to Oase for use of the garden / outdoor sex but likely to arrive mid afternoon so early shift will be on and current reports are not positive.

Saturday. Have to work until at least 9 pm so awkward. Likely to hit Mainhattan late.

Sunday. Arrive Sharks 2 pm for rest of day.

Any thoughts / changes ideas? I would appreciate your observations. Thanks.[/QUOTE]In your place I would stick to Sharks and Oase for daytime and also night time. Maybe a pass from Manhattan as well to check some sweet souls. Palace is depressing.

[QUOTE=PayForIt;2355753]:Thursday. Palace. If no good will jump over to Mainhattan where I've had good times the last 4 visits. Other option is to go straight to Mainhattan?[/QUOTE]Do yourself a favour and skip Palace in August. It's dead and won't come alive untill messe season in September. AFAIR you did the same mistake last year and whined about it. Didn't you learn anything? :)

[QUOTE=Shark16;2355929]Do yourself a favour and skip Palace in August. It's dead and won't come alive untill messe season in September. AFAIR you did the same mistake last year and whined about it. Didn't you learn anything? [/QUOTE]I'm sure Shark16 is correct that other FKKs in or around Frankfurt are more lively in August. However, if Palace is easy for you to get to over other clubs, its probably worth a look.

[QUOTE=Shark16;2355929]Do yourself a favour and skip Palace in August. It's dead and won't come alive untill messe season in September. AFAIR you did the same mistake last year and whined about it. Didn't you learn anything? :)[/QUOTE]LOL. You are not wrong my friend. I did visit Palace in fact earlier this year after the renovations. There were some options but nothing grabbed me so I jumped a cab to Mainhattan and had a great night with Sharon.

Something always draws me to Palace. I don't know what as I have rarely had great sessions there! I like the new layout. I'm intending to spend most of my Friday at Oase and most of my Sunday at Sharks so I'm thinking on the two days when I only have evenings available to try the other clubs. For the guys who say stick with Sharks and Oase. Probably not a bad idea but as I'll spend many hours at both on 2 days that is enough for me I believe. Hoping to see the pretty Lorena being reported upon in the Oase thread. Had recent posts suggested the LU at both was outstanding I might have been tempted by 2 visits to each. But nobody is suggesting current LUs are strong.

So that leaves my 2 evenings and I guess I'm thinking one each for Palace and Mainhattan. But I asked for advice and should listen to it. So I'm likely to head to Mainhattan first!

Have pondered World but too far out and reports are that LU is awful and I don't like "dirty" clubs so Dietz isn't for me.

Cheers for the comments. Will report back as ever.

[QUOTE=PayForIt;2356074]
Something always draws me to Palace. I don't know what as I have rarely had great sessions there!

Cheers for the comments. Will report back as ever.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYpN2a6BIew[/URL]

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP9ZaOugl4w[/URL]

Take care!

[QUOTE=ZimmerBaby;2356283][URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYpN2a6BIew[/URL]

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP9ZaOugl4w[/URL]

Take care![/QUOTE]Dear mother of god! I have not had such a good laugh in quite a while. How will I be able to withstand upselling without bursting into laughter after this?

I'll be arriving in Frankfurt next Thursday morning. Have three days to play around.

I will try to divide my time between mainhattan palace oase and sharks, time permitting.

This would be my first trip to Frankfurt. If anybody else is around at the same time and want to double up I'the definitely be interested.

Also would appreciate any words of wisdom and advice.

Thanks.

Anyone know if Laura is still working at Globe. It says she isn't active on Globe's website.

She hasn't been there for a few years and before that she was at Artemis (6-7+ yrs ago).

She's Polish, tall, blond, always really tanned and her body is always oily and shiny and has a clit piercing.

She was my favorite and I was told from someone that she quick and went "normal".

[QUOTE=ZimmerBaby;2356283][URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYpN2a6BIew[/URL]

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP9ZaOugl4w[/URL]

Take care![/QUOTE]OMG yes! Rolling on the floor, laughing out loud too funny LOLOLOL! This kind of stuff never happened to me at FKK "Goldenslime", but I was so uncomfortable there that when I left, I vowed never to return, and I have not. It's the only place in Germany I hated so much that I refuse to even give the place a second chance. Well, I guess I would if I knew that Lilia had returned LOL! She was at "Goldenslime" before pulling time at Artemis in Berlin. But then again, I'd be pushing my luck, as they might not even let me in the next time. Thanks for posting! Really gave me a good laugh going into the weekend!

[QUOTE=BackpackBrian;2356353]Anyone know if Laura is still working at Globe. It says she isn't active on Globe's website.

She hasn't been there for a few years and before that she was at Artemis (6-7+ yrs ago).

She's Polish, tall, blond, always really tanned and her body is always oily and shiny and has a clit piercing.

She was my favorite and I was told from someone that she quick and went "normal".[/QUOTE]Forget her or married her, never live in nostalgy.

[QUOTE=ZimmerBaby;2356283][URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYpN2a6BIew[/URL]

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP9ZaOugl4w[/URL]

[/QUOTE]Salaam Z-Baby. Not really funny for me, more like a depressingly accurate analysis of what happens when an FKK goes bad. I had a similar confrontation at Artemis reception (a long long time) ago, and never returned. Within a couple of years "Goldenslime" had descended to a similar level.

The key asymmetry is that payment is enforced but service is not enforced. In other words the girls have all the rights and the guys have none. That imbalanced dynamic encourages the worst behavior from the girls. Sharks multiply, and soon the remaining nice girls cannot survive in that environment, so it becomes nothing but a den of thieves.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2356697]Salaam Z-Baby. Not really funny for me, more like a depressingly accurate analysis of what happens when an FKK goes bad. I had a similar confrontation at Artemis reception (a long long time) ago, and never returned. Within a couple of years "Goldenslime" had descended to a similar level.

The key asymmetry is that payment is enforced but service is not enforced. In other words the girls have all the rights and the guys have none. That imbalanced dynamic encourages the worst behavior from the girls. Sharks multiply, and soon the remaining nice girls cannot survive in that environment, so it becomes nothing but a den of thieves.[/QUOTE]I'm sure that if I was experiencing this kind of thing all the time, then I wouldn't find it so funny. And maybe it's the reason why a good German girl like Lilia left.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2356697]Salaam Z-Baby. Not really funny for me, more like a depressingly accurate analysis of what happens when an FKK goes bad. I had a similar confrontation at Artemis reception (a long long time) ago, and never returned. Within a couple of years "Goldenslime" had descended to a similar level.

The key asymmetry is that payment is enforced but service is not enforced. In other words the girls have all the rights and the guys have none. That imbalanced dynamic encourages the worst behavior from the girls. Sharks multiply, and soon the remaining nice girls cannot survive in that environment, so it becomes nothing but a den of thieves.[/QUOTE]Sorry you have also all the rights, just stay outside the clubs, be extremely selective, even no room nobody can force you to go to the room, you have the cash so you have the levels. It is what I do and believe me I am saving a lot of money and have a far more interesting life than this endless sitting in the clubs.

Guys. I hope you don't mind me going a bit off topic here but I know many of you enjoy a good FR and on my third visit of the trip to Scandallo (So Paulo) I scored a true 9. 5 model who was a wildcat in bed to boot. I really think Scandallo is by far the most beautiful girls per square foot on earth. And they all want to fuck you! Wow. Enjoy!

So it's the very last night of my trip and where else would I choose to go but Scandallo? I was drag ass tired and considered not going. What a mistake that would have been. So, professional that I am, I powered thru.

I roll up around 11 PM and it's quite packed like one would expect. First I spend a bit of time on the patio. It's more relaxed out there, before the crush of the club. A few pretty girls that are maybes but no one lights me up.

I decide to wade into the thick of it, which is the main area with the band and grab my second drink. And it's packed. Pretty much have to turn sideways to wend your way thru the crowd. I can't really estimate but surely over 100 girls just in that part, maybe 150? It is a buffet that is unequalled worldwide in my opinion.

I have a certain type and it's a very narrow window. So out of the 150 I will probably find 5 or less that are up my alley even tho they are all pretty in their own way. At some point Julliana from last week appears. She is a sweet girl and pretty and I would repeat under other circumstances. But not with such a target rich environment. So I give her a kiss and move on (later I find out she was pissed. But hey.).

I find one of the very best places to do the girl-buffet is up near the stage to the right. You can stand on the little step there and for some reason a lot of the ladies have a loop that goes right by there. But bear in mind others never leave the back of the room so you need to work both.

While the ladies are on parade there are one or two who catch my eye and I file them for future reference. One particular beauty is wearing a floral print top and matching wrap-around skirt. She has lovely dark eyes and long black hair. Tawny skin. Just my type. We make brief but meaningful eye contact.

This reminds me, it is very interesting how the game is played:

1 Eye contact and quick eye aversion. One of the parties is not interested. Move on.

2 Brief eye contact - 2-3 seconds. Dig you let's talk later.

3 Strong sustained eye contact. Let's talk right now baby.

The irony with number 2 is if you are careful not to let it go to defcon 3 then you only get a brief look at your girl. My tropical girl gets eye contact level 2 - I need further confirmation and file her for later.

Later when I am surveying from the back of the room, I notice that tropical-girl is next to me. I do another quick meeting of the eyes and then drop after a couple seconds. As I turn away, it hits me she is the one. So I reengage and turn towards her and engage her in my broken Portugus. (In retrospect I realize that she is not next to me by accident. She had marked me also after the first gaze and sought me out. Well good for her because she got it right!

Wow fuck this girl is a real doll. Will share pics with senior members by IM. We chat briefly but it's very loud in the club. So we adjourn to the couches in the hall. I'd never really noticed that there are nice couches lining the hall between the restaurant and the club. What a great place to get to know each other. And we do. She's got an architectural degree and hopes to practice soon. She says she loves Scandallo because it's so classy and I agree.

God she is beautiful and I need to move this to the next level but don't want to do a room and be done. So I ask if she wants a drink and does she like dancing. Sim and sim! (All discussion is Portugus. She knows no English.).

So we head back to the main part of the club. She is very girlfriendy, leading me by the hand. We get her a drink and find a section in the middle where there are some tables that create sufficient dancing space. So we put our drinks here and start some dancing. Well not really. More like hips to hips swaying regardless of the beat. And some grinding and gyrating.

The dancing is very sexy and intimate. One of the things that melts my soul is when a girl looks deep into my eyes. Not enough of this so far this trip including my spectacular 3 day girlfriend. So when Andressa concentrates those liquid browns on mine it is delicious. We lean in and kiss a little. Light stuff at first. A little tongue mixed in as things progress. I honestly enjoy this as much as the room. I did it with Josy for an hour or so last week and loved it. With Andressa it is not the full on tongue tangled mackin like Josy, but very pleasant. And the balance will tip toward Andressa In the room, where she is a goddess.

After 20 minutes or it could be a half hour of dance-flirting I think we were both ready for the room. We do it via Google translate. She initiates with "What do you like to do during sex". Nice. I like the directness. "I like blowjob without condom. And kissing in missionary". Hoping just for an OK, I instead get a surprising "I love BJ without condom. " Which clearly is no lie we discover later.

The room is down the elevator and back up the stairs. R200 at the counter. Again led by the hand, we find our room.

Standing by the bed she faces me and does the full on liquid brown eyes and we kiss a bit. She then turns around and I untie her top. This BFGF part is very sexy and I love when girls do it. It's the first exposure to her tits and they are spectacular BeeCups. Super fine. We get her skirt off as well and then she undoes my buttons and belt. I love being undressed and she is very sexy doing it.

After showers she puts me on my back, straddles me, and sexily crawls up me till we are face to face and plants a strong kiss on me. Love kissing her. She lies fully on top of me, naked junk to lady parts. Gets me rather hard just moving our hips.

Then like a sexy cat she crawls back down and takes me in her mouth, never breaking eye contact. And she is VERY good downstairs. Top one or two of the trip. Lots of licking while giving the doe eyes. Plenty of BLS. A nice buffet of blowjob. Fortunately her being the tenth (ish) fuck of the trip I have plenty of stamina and don't threaten a stack-blowing despite her skills.

Now it's her turn as I turn her on her back. I start by just kissing her deeply but then work down to those spectacular tits. She doesn't get the mega hard nipples like Joanna the prior night but she seems to respond in a basic way. Now it's time to move on down.

I take my time going there hoping to get her worked up. When I reach the goal I start some really good tongue work. Her clit is a bit covered so I push up the surrounding flesh to get better access (learned this recently). But despite this, the response is pretty demure. At five or so minutes in, I think she is bored and maybe I should stop. But I do something right and get a little breath intake and head grab. So I keep at it. Sure enough she is just a super slow build.

I spend quite some time working on her as she slow-builds. The magic ticket tho is when I work my index finger inside and curl it back to her Gspot. Using both tongue and fingers is getting her super hot and bothered. I start to feel a small wave and then a huge bucking wave of pussy clamps. Don't know that I've felt that strong a reaction inside a pussy ever before. Made me feel great that I could get her off like that.

Afterwards she just lies fully spent just staring up at me with something like admiration or gratitude. This was no act. She is like a limp wet fish so completely satisfied. But she wants to reciprocate so does a bit more BJ then she grabs the condom and starts riding cowgirl. What a sight! Perfect tits pressed together. Sometimes she'll throw her head back and put her arms back and lean back, just letting go. Fuck she is a stunner -- like a 9. 5.

She switches to RCG which I don't usually prefer but she does a great job. After a while I move her to her back and plunge into Mish. This is really really good. Lots of Mish kissing but she seems to like it best when she buried her face in my neck and wraps her legs strong around me. This is so fine I think I may cum in Mish which I love. But it fades.

In the end, we roll over and lose the condom and she works me by mouth. She has to use every trick in the book and is down at least another ten minutes maybe more. Spectacular climax with ten minutes left on the room.

So we shower, I get her number (ALWAYS do this with Brasileiras) and later get some model-level pics the next day via WhatsApp. Wow what a girl!

I've been reading all the FKK forums for a few weeks now in preparation for my first trip and have a few questions on terms not heard before in other countries. Would appreciate knowing what google could not help with.

Is zimmer used as both a noun and a verb when talking with a girl? What is most normal usage to say let's go!

What are the polite and proper words to ask if BBBJ is included?

What is P6 or to what does it refer?

Occasionally I see the word religion or religious used to describe a girl. This one really has me scratching my head.

Thanks for any clarifications.

[QUOTE=LuckyNuts;2356914]I've been reading all the FKK forums for a few weeks now in preparation for my first trip and have a few questions on terms not heard before in other countries. Would appreciate knowing what google could not help with.

Is zimmer used as both a noun and a verb when talking with a girl? What is most normal usage to say let's go!

What are the polite and proper words to ask if BBBJ is included?

What is P6 or to what does it refer?

Occasionally I see the word religion or religious used to describe a girl. This one really has me scratching my head.

Thanks for any clarifications.[/QUOTE]Zimmer as noun is for room, to zimmern as verb means to fuck. You can say: let's go to room (Zimmer) or please search for us a nice room. Many ways to say it, it's up to you, be polite and everything should be fine.

Asking for BBBJ is illegal, therefore I don't ask girls for that. I am really no expert for illegal things but maybe you can ask if a blow job without condom is included in the standard rate. And ask for the standard rate.

P6 or pay sex stands for all sexual activities for money.

I heard that the religion of a girl refers to her way in using condoms for sex. If the girl is catholic that mean she provides full service bareback sex without condom. But this is strictly illegal in Germany now and you won't find girls offering this and of course never ask for this because this makes most girl upset and you can get trouble in club.

Have fun with your first FKK club trip.

[QUOTE=Craiova;2356925]I heard that the religion of a girl refers to her way in using condoms for sex. If the girl is catholic that mean she provides full service bareback sex without condom. But this is strictly illegal in Germany now and you won't find girls offering this and of course never ask for this because this makes most girl upset and you can get trouble in club.[/QUOTE]Can you say "The Philippines"? If this is what you want, then that is where you go.

[QUOTE=Craiova;2356925]Zimmer as noun is for room, to zimmern as verb means to fuck. You can say: let's go to room (Zimmer) or please search for us a nice room. Many ways to say it, it's up to you, be polite and everything should be fine.

Asking for BBBJ is illegal, therefore I don't ask girls for that. I am really no expert for illegal things but maybe you can ask if a blow job without condom is included in the standard rate. And ask for the standard rate.

P6 or pay sex stands for all sexual activities for money.

I heard that the religion of a girl refers to her way in using condoms for sex. If the girl is catholic that mean she provides full service bareback sex without condom. But this is strictly illegal in Germany now and you won't find girls offering this and of course never ask for this because this makes most girl upset and you can get trouble in club.

Have fun with your first FKK club trip.[/QUOTE]Despite new law, who can say natural BJ is not anymore standard? Some NRW staff even told girls they don t want complaints, and what about AO RTC still opened. Not much changed after law, mostly registration and taxes.

[QUOTE=LuckyNuts;2356914]I've been reading all the FKK forums for a few weeks now in preparation for my first trip and have a few questions on terms not heard before in other countries. Would appreciate knowing what google could not help with.

Is zimmer used as both a noun and a verb when talking with a girl? What is most normal usage to say let's go!

What are the polite and proper words to ask if BBBJ is included?

What is P6 or to what does it refer?

Occasionally I see the word religion or religious used to describe a girl. This one really has me scratching my head.

Thanks for any clarifications.[/QUOTE]It does not matter how you express your desire to go to a room to fuck; you can use sign language if you want. The girl will get it and will be happy to take you to the room.

Yes, BBBJ is illegal as other gent said but when in doubt, ASK! Much better to ask and confirm than go to the room, spend 50 or 100 as the case may be and face disappointment and frustration. Of course, you can ask your question in other ways too: for example, "do you normally provide your blow job with or without condom in a 50 session? Such a question does not indicate what you want or requested, and is a perfectly legal question. But for the most part this is moot. Almost 100% of the girls will provide BBBJ, it is just that some do it at normal 50 E price and some want a higher price.

As already explained, Catholicism is a euphemism for penetration without condom. I don't know why this should be the purview of Catholics because I went to mainstream Protestant denomination churches when growing up in the US (now, I simply don't go to church at all) and I like AO sex just as much as any catholic, LOL. However, be very careful if seeking AO sex in big FKK clubs, you may be reported to the front desk. I have indulged in AO sex with my regular girls in the US but never in FKKs.

[QUOTE=Craiova;2356925]I heard that the religion of a girl refers to her way in using condoms for sex. If the girl is catholic that mean she provides full service bareback sex without condom. [/QUOTE]I admit I don't read 100% of the posts, but I have never read of a woman being referred to as catholic. When the July 2017 law came into effect, some Bears didn't want to openly write about participating in illegal services, and so they referred to BBBJ as a Catholic BJ, referring to the traditional Catholic practice of not using contraceptives.

[QUOTE=Craiova;235692] ... I heard that the religion of a girl refers to her way in using condoms for sex. If the girl is catholic that mean she provides full service bareback sex without condom. But this is strictly illegal in Germany now and you won't find girls offering this and of course never ask for this because this makes most girl upset and you can get trouble in club.
... [/QUOTE]This overstates the current situation. BBBJ is frequently available, and the worst thing that might happen if you ask is the girl will say no. BBFS (also known as Alles Ohne or AO) can also be found depending on the place. Some places (such as the RTC clubs) specialize in bareback full service.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2357325] ... As already explained, Catholicism is a euphemism for penetration without condom. I don't know why this should be the purview of Catholics because I went to mainstream Protestant denomination churches when growing up in the US (now, I simply don't go to church at all) and I like AO sex just as much as any catholic, LOL. ...l[/QUOTE]It's said because the Catholic Church has traditionally banned birth control including condoms. It's a bit of a joke because the Church also, of course, and prostitution.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2357412]This overstates the current situation. BBBJ is frequently available, and the worst thing that might happen if you ask is the girl will say no. BBFS (also known as Alles Ohne or AO) can also be found depending on the place. Some places (such as the RTC clubs) specialize in bareback full service.[/QUOTE]Ups and how about the club police raid (razzia) in NRW at least more than once at Living Room or Babylon after Juli 1st, 2017 where female german Ordnungsamt officers enters the rooms in these clubs without announcement or knocking, said "condom control" and checked the dick if wearing a condom during oral or varginal / anal sex. And they get some guys without condom and these guys get a fine. Sounds for me slightly different than your worst case that a girl said "no".

One thing is not to write too much about BBBJ on the forum, and which girls does it. Since it is illegal, I don't think this is the way to do it. And it is detrimental to many things.

But ask girls in person! That is a completely different thing. I really wonder what the heck Craiova is on when he tells you not to ask a girl since it is illegal. People ask for all sorts of things no matter how illegal it is. Drugs is just one thing. And I don't think they have a hidden microphone in their nipple piercing!

Then again, if I was a loverboy, I wouldn't want my girlfriend to do BBBJ's also. So this is one way of finding out if they have overly defensive loverboys or not.

[QUOTE=LuckyNuts;2356914]
Is zimmer used as both a noun and a verb when talking with a girl? What is most normal usage to say let's go!
What are the polite and proper words to ask if BBBJ is included?
What is P6 or to what does it refer?
Thanks for any clarifications.[/QUOTE]I see many people have answered most of these questions, but my 'first time' experience posted on Coliseum FKK might give you a blow by blow take on the questions and how to ask for what you want. I did not find any girls who preferred German over English at that location.

There is probably no standard answer to your question about BBBJ. It may have been in a post by Pfieke who mentioned you get a different pricing structure on "options" if you are asking a girl for an hour vs 30 minutes. (Likely at 30, everything beyond a couple positions is upcharge unless you are a regular.) One lady I asked what was included in her hour session, replied everything is fine, including deep french without but coming on body is 50 euros, extra.

Still more likely is that you get a different answer on a slow Wednesday versus a peak Saturday night at a larger club around 9 pm? Finally, one tip I've seen in many forums, if you wait to get into the room, you often get asked to pay extra. If it's important to you ask before going upstairs.

So.

I was thinking about the FKK world after a recent trip.

One woman who I'the been with about a decade ago was still in the game at Oase, still relatively attractive, but is no longer the skinny catwalk type that I first met her as. She's filled out, and unsurprisingly appears less popular.

I noticed her purse was not new — it was quite obviously old because there was a distinct wear pattern at the opening, evidence of dirt and oils from her reaching into it for years. Her iPhone screen was cracked. I felt a little bad for her, this is no country for old (er) women.

Maybe she has a drug problem and needed to keep the dollars coming in.

On the other hand, at Sharks, I noticed a new towel girl was an old WG. Based on some of the front desk clerks and assorted staff dress, I had always assumed some of them were ex-WGs.

Anyone know the story of some of these WGs that become house workers? Why do they choose to do what they do? Are they paid better than most service workers given that they used to earn a lot as WGs, and money flows in the FKKs, and there may be a stigma to working in an FKK?

I wondered if my old associate at Oase would wind up as a service worker if she's not doing as much business anymore. She's still young in relative terms, but on the old side for an FKK. Maybe she's still earning well, and doesn't care to keep up the phone or the purse.

Been out of the game for a long while. What's the low down on BBBJ at oase and sharks / palace?

Also what is the goto club these days for the hottest babes?

Have not had time to RTFF.

Moira was doing the bar duties a while ago. She used to be one of the best at Sharks. She still looked better than half the girls at Sharks when she donned shorts and a T shirt to mix drinks.

Speaking of economy, I wonder how our Brit friends are feeling these days. Pound Sterling is fast approaching parity with Euro. In 2015, it fetched them 1.4 Euros per Pound. I bet a few of them are making fewer visits to the clubs and taking minimal extras.

[QUOTE=Jmioffe;2357499]I was thinking about the FKK world after a recent trip.

One woman who I'the been with about a decade ago was still in the game at Oase, still relatively attractive, but is no longer the skinny catwalk type that I first met her as. She's filled out, and unsurprisingly appears less popular.

I noticed her purse was not new it was quite obviously old because there was a distinct wear pattern at the opening, evidence of dirt and oils from her reaching into it for years. Her iPhone screen was cracked. I felt a little bad for her, this is no country for old (er) women.

Maybe she has a drug problem and needed to keep the dollars coming in.

On the other hand, at Sharks, I noticed a new towel girl was an old WG. Based on some of the front desk clerks and assorted staff dress, I had always assumed some of them were ex-WGs..[/QUOTE]PIMPS run their economy, most girls has pimps. They work as introducer to FKK business as well as they position themselves girls protector and also as a mental support in hard job called prostitution.

It is hard mentality to understand, but hey, if all of these girls are not nut and crazy, we aint fucking, so I got no complain LOL!

[QUOTE=Jmioffe;2357499]I was thinking about the FKK world after a recent trip.

One woman who I'the been with about a decade ago was still in the game at Oase, still relatively attractive, but is no longer the skinny catwalk type that I first met her as. She's filled out, and unsurprisingly appears less popular.

I noticed her purse was not new it was quite obviously old because there was a distinct wear pattern at the opening, evidence of dirt and oils from her reaching into it for years. Her iPhone screen was cracked. I felt a little bad for her, this is no country for old (er) women.

Maybe she has a drug problem and needed to keep the dollars coming in.

On the other hand, at Sharks, I noticed a new towel girl was an old WG. Based on some of the front desk clerks and assorted staff dress, I had always assumed some of them were ex-WGs.

Anyone know the story of some of these WGs that become house workers? Why do they choose to do what they do? Are they paid better than most service workers given that they used to earn a lot as WGs, and money flows in the FKKs, and there may be a stigma to working in an FKK?

I wondered if my old associate at Oase would wind up as a service worker if she's not doing as much business anymore. She's still young in relative terms, but on the old side for an FKK. Maybe she's still earning well, and doesn't care to keep up the phone or the purse.[/QUOTE]Can't answer your question, but.

Have you seen the current Oase evening manager lady? The young slim super beautiful one? She's probably the most beautiful girl among all girls (including both WGs and non-WGs) in combined Oase and Sharks currently! Wish she is available for sessions! I was almost tempted to ask one night LOL. Anyone knows her name or some details? I'm curious, I should have asked her then. 😁

[QUOTE=Craiova;2357419]Ups and how about the club police raid (razzia) in NRW at least more than once at Living Room or Babylon after Juli 1st, 2017 where female german Ordnungsamt officers enters the rooms in these clubs without announcement or knocking, said "condom control" and checked the dick if wearing a condom during oral or varginal / anal sex. And they get some guys without condom and these guys get a fine. Sounds for me slightly different than your worst case that a girl said "no".[/QUOTE]Were you at LR on these controls? I experienced 3 on 2017 when I was every Friday and Saturday with my regular, only registration controls about girls, once they entered 3 times while our 1h30 room and they always knocked before entering, she showed her number they gave her when they started and they never controlled me, I only had to stop 30 seconds and started to work on her again. Great days for me, because other guys left, so she was all fresh and free for me, happy to get my business and she did worth at this time, like on our last day on Friday 6 October 2017 when she didn't get business between our 2 rooms, so she said when we repeated: today you are happy, You have me only for You, last but at least great day, even she will never know what I did for the woman. On 2018, numerous controls were about the club and I can t understand why no problem at GT and so many at LR, with same boss. I'm sure this and falling casting with new pretty girls not staying because of low business, made more problems to LR than my disappointed writings, and same now when so many girls moved to GT. LR sacrifice by boss, GT seem much more important. In both clubs, even some new girls don t really kiss at LR, but natural BJ kept on quite standard, like in most of clubs I visit, or maybe because girls really want to please me and like ananas taste. I only believe what I see with my own eyes, not even what I hear with my own ears, only facts I experience are real for me in this business. Most of what is written or said is at best so subjective and so often fake.

[QUOTE=Jmioffe;2357499]I was thinking about the FKK world after a recent trip.

One woman who I'the been with about a decade ago was still in the game at Oase, still relatively attractive, but is no longer the skinny catwalk type that I first met her as. She's filled out, and unsurprisingly appears less popular.

I noticed her purse was not new it was quite obviously old because there was a distinct wear pattern at the opening, evidence of dirt and oils from her reaching into it for years. Her iPhone screen was cracked. I felt a little bad for her, this is no country for old (er) women.

Maybe she has a drug problem and needed to keep the dollars coming in.

On the other hand, at Sharks, I noticed a new towel girl was an old WG. Based on some of the front desk clerks and assorted staff dress, I had always assumed some of them were ex-WGs..[/QUOTE]Most of the girls are not able to change, to discover new places so they stay where they know, many mongers over estimate the girls capacities, most of them have low education and you really need to be special to accept to get f. Every day by so many different men just for money, today in Germany the girls have a lot of possibilities to make their living, they don't need to be a prostitutes.

Most of the girls will stop at around 30 some will extend to 35 or even 40 but they need to give more extras, I am always very sad to see those old prostitutes a bit desperate, trying to seduce some mongers.

[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2357615]Most of the girls are not able to change, to discover new places so they stay where they know, many mongers over estimate the girls capacities, most of them have low education and you really need to be special to accept to get f. Every day by so many different men just for money, today in Germany the girls have a lot of possibilities to make their living, they don't need to be a prostitutes.[/QUOTE]This is an interesting point of view but I don't understand what you need by saying 'special' to accept to be f. By so many different men.

Yes maybe they have possibilities to make their own living but ask how many of them want to make 2 k per month when they can make that in one good day.

[QUOTE=Craiova;2357419]Ups and how about the club police raid (razzia) in NRW at least more than once at Living Room or Babylon after Juli 1st, 2017 where female german Ordnungsamt officers enters the rooms in these clubs without announcement or knocking, said "condom control" and checked the dick if wearing a condom during oral or varginal / anal sex. And they get some guys without condom and these guys get a fine. Sounds for me slightly different than your worst case that a girl said "no".[/QUOTE]Salaam Craiova. This sounds like a Monty Python sketch. "Can I check your sausage, Sir?

But how do you know they were real policewomen? Did you know it is actually quite common in Germany for bossy civilian women -- many with disturbed pasts -- to dress up in fake uniforms and have fun going about ordering people around?

[URL]https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/12/berlin-police-force-embarrassed-by-arrest-of-fake-policewoman[/URL]

Never been at LR not Babylon during police controls, but the stories I've heard were all the same. Been at YY during 2 controls however, and all they did was check the girls registration there also. Nothing more. And the drug control dogs of course. Which is standard at YY.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2357865]Never been at LR not Babylon during police controls, but the stories I've heard were all the same. Been at YY during 2 controls however, and all they did was check the girls registration there also. Nothing more. And the drug control dogs of course. Which is standard at YY.[/QUOTE]I've been in LR multiple times during controls and once at GT. At LR I was always in the bar or shower when the control kicked off. On two occasions the issued armbands to the bears we had to keep on until we left or the end of the control. You were still able to take a lady to the room after she had passed her interview. At GT, the lady was just placing the condom when the knock came at the door. The lady closed the door and we continued with our business. When we left the room the lady was immediately escorted to the lockers to retrieve her paperwork. I always wanted to ask the inspectors if a condom was required during a HJ. To me, a BJ is just a really close up HJ.

[QUOTE=StarletVoyager;2357501]Been out of the game for a long while. What's the low down on BBBJ at oase and sharks / palace?

Also what is the goto club these days for the hottest babes?

Have not had time to RTFF.[/QUOTE]Girls are still interested by extra for CIM from good old BJ, some prefer this and resting their small pussy.

[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2356796]Sorry you have also all the rights, just stay outside the clubs, be extremely selective, even no room nobody can force you to go to the room, you have the cash so you have the levels. It is what I do and believe me I am saving a lot of money and have a far more interesting life than this endless sitting in the clubs.[/QUOTE]I prefer ski free ride and climbing Mortirolo and Zoncolan, I even found now, coming back from Wellcum and Andiamo, Col Gentile di Mione 28%, carabinieri told right, I put car liquid to refresh engine in red 130 degrees climbing, and 34/36 on my bicycle. Even I love beautiful women but they can t compete with this adrenaline drug. My FKK girls know about this. Some asked: why You don t come? Because I can t resist to adrenaline and more oxygen in blood.

[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2357615]Most of the girls are not able to change, to discover new places so they stay where they know, many mongers over estimate the girls capacities, most of them have low education and you really need to be special to accept to get f. Every day by so many different men just for money, today in Germany the girls have a lot of possibilities to make their living, they don't need to be a prostitutes.

Most of the girls will stop at around 30 some will extend to 35 or even 40 but they need to give more extras, I am always very sad to see those old prostitutes a bit desperate, trying to seduce some mongers.[/QUOTE]I agree for German girls who could find a normal job for a normal life, but what about turkish or albanian or afghan pimp? For Romanian girls, not from Bucarest city or Constanza or Cluj for most of them, a bit more difficult, I remember who would become my best girl, when I discovered her, fresh in mind, she was 23 yo, she explained me she worked in a restaurant for 200 € per month, in a 100 000 people city, 100 kms from Bucarest, her previous job was confirmed by good surprise, they knew each other, living in same city, even they didn t like anymore each other at Living Room and good surprise needed to tell me about my ex and I had to answer: But now I go only with You. Out of these 3 cities, I know some girls who lost their money in business they tried and returned to work. I think quite difficult to make money in poor deep Romania.

Just for a change. For those traveling in Germany and coming this week to the Rhine-Main-Region: in the center of Wiesbaden (capital of Hesse), as every year, the "Rheingauer Weinwoche", the largest city wine festival in Germany takes place. For those who love the wine from the Riesling grape, that is a must!

Wiesbaden is easily reachable from Frankfurt, Darmstadt or Mainz by train.

The wine week will last until Sunday, 18th August. Approx 100 vintners will offer their wines and lots of bands will be playing on three stages between 2 pm and 10 pm.

Here is the link tp the program (in german+english):

[URL]https://www.wiesbaden.de/medien-zentral/dok/leben/freizeit/190726_RWW_Programm_Joris05.08._web.pdf[/URL]

Wiesbaden is well known for its stylish and beautiful ladies!

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[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2357615]Most of the girls are not able to change, to discover new places so they stay where they know, many mongers over estimate the girls capacities, most of them have low education and you really need to be special to accept to get f. Every day by so many different men just for money, today in Germany the girls have a lot of possibilities to make their living, they don't need to be a prostitutes.

Most of the girls will stop at around 30 some will extend to 35 or even 40 but they need to give more extras, I am always very sad to see those old prostitutes a bit desperate, trying to seduce some mongers.[/QUOTE]I wonder what will happen to those prostitute after their retirement from industry especially those 35, 40 years old ones. I guess in Germany they can get some kind of job.

As for Romanians, I had few on my facebook friends and some actually seemed to go to university I guess using money they made in FKK. I imagine they could get some kind of office job in Romania after that, so for some girls it is not that bad if they managed to collect enough money for university and for little more after university, you know good base money.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2357510]Moira was doing the bar duties a while ago. She used to be one of the best at Sharks. She still looked better than half the girls at Sharks when she donned shorts and a T shirt to mix drinks.

Speaking of economy, I wonder how our Brit friends are feeling these days. Pound Sterling is fast approaching parity with Euro. In 2015, it fetched them 1.4 Euros per Pound. I bet a few of them are making fewer visits to the clubs and taking minimal extras.[/QUOTE]Yes, Moira even not a beauty for me but what was quality for girls before at Sharks, seemed happy to work at the bar. Same at Living Room, I didn't like childish Maya when was working to get rooms, only her tits worth to be seen for me, but she became lovely working at the bar and she seemed happy. I never spoke with Roxana when was working to get rooms, because I only went with one girl, but really nice when working at the bar, maybe she felt I m not a so big devil, but polite and respectful. Even for sure less money, and also for Edita at Golden Time, but they seem quite happy about their new job. Many ex prostitutes also work on desk, like Monika ex Heidi GT did at LR. Maybe, when they are not able anymore to be fucked whole day, they discover money is not happiness, money is only all when You were born poor and missed so much, to eat, to look like others, but these girls are learning to become normal women with less money, but a better body, mind and image of them.

Just curious, did the price drop during 2008 recession?

[QUOTE=JennyKk;2358723]Just curious, did the price drop during 2008 recession?[/QUOTE]Great question, would love to read a reply from one of the long time veterans but it is my understanding from the guys living here that prices remained pretty consistent but club attendances did drop a tad. I could only answer this question as it relates to the USA sex prison and Mexico and central America but different market and the prices actually started rising not dropping in central America etc. As many retirees went down to points south with plenty of money and actually ' ruined' Panama, Costa Rica etc by paying up. Even the guys who go to Colombia and other places are complaining of upticks due to overpaying idiots to this day. How did all this play out in Germany? No clue. Wasn't here.

I also think this question is tied in to the drop in the market yesterday but admittedly I wondered the same thing. We will all have to adjust if the shit hits the fan and I am no economist but I don't think we will end up in a world economy that mirrors the Great Recession. If so, we deal with it and ride the storm out. Hold our equities, don't panic, live off the bonds and bond income and dividends until the market rises.

What I can add and a more likely situation is this Brexit shit which I don't completely understand but per my hotel manager once it is complete overall prices in Frankfurt on food, goods and services, rents, home prices, hotels, utilities and so on are expected to jump 10 percent or so on average which isn't too bad but that would also imply much more financial business in FRA than now for banking which probably means the price of a girl in the city clubs might jump and spread outwards but I have no clue just repeating what I heard; I can only react.

But look forward to guys who actually know chiming in...

[QUOTE=JennyKk;2358723]Just curious, did the price drop during 2008 recession?[/QUOTE]No. KK is spot on. Prices remained the same, but the girls experienced fewer guests (lower earnings).

My memory is fading, but would it be fair to say that 2008-10 was a time when there was a larger change in the line-ups? Girls in less demand were quitting? German/ Russian / Baltic / Polish girls were replaced by younger and more beautiful Romanian girls? I will let others respond to that idea.

Romanian girls are more interesting as women than Germans for me. They are different but sometimes also more interesting than Russians and I met many escorting in Paris or Milano or Torino. Latvian or Belarus women are really interesting. I m happy with Romanians and good girls usually still make good business when they choose the good club, complicated at World or LR.

[QUOTE=JennyKk;2358723]Just curious, did the price drop during 2008 recession?[/QUOTE]I began FKK mongering in 2009, right after Lehman shock, but entrance and house price is same as today, if I remember right. At least for Artemis. And there was multiple 12 entrance card for price of 10 entrance fee being same price as well.

However, in a way price was more fair back then than now from the point of view of up selling, Artemis was always upsell club, but as years went by upselling got more uglier (also lineup) and extreme that I stopped going there in 2015.

Also for another clubs, after new law, some girls try charging you extras for more by break down the standard services etc. So in reality, tendency to up sell increase is price increased.

There was a time, we easily got BBBJ, multiple position fuck and DATY for standard 50 or 60 euro per 30 min, but now 100 euro is the case most of time.

[QUOTE=Shark16;2358844]No. KK is spot on. Prices remained the same, but the girls experienced fewer guests (lower earnings).

My memory is fading, but would it be fair to say that 2008-10 was a time when there was a larger change in the line-ups? Girls in less demand were quitting? German/ Russian / Baltic / Polish girls were replaced by younger and more beautiful Romanian girls? I will let others respond to that idea.[/QUOTE]Hi. I reckon the change started about 2005, and as you say by 2008 was well under way, if not almost completed. I remember the day a busload of romanians (probably about 40 girls!!!) turned up at World, changing the club forever. Before that one day the numbers of romanians there were limited.The sudden oversupply of girls led to many girls from other nationalities leaving

So not really related to the recession. More the opening up of a new supply.

As for the optics, everybody will have their own views of course.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2358880]Hi. I reckon the change started about 2005, and as you say by 2008 was well under way, if not almost completed. I remember the day a busload of romanians (probably about 40 girls!!!) turned up at World, changing the club forever. Before that one day the numbers of romanians there were limited.The sudden oversupply of girls led to many girls from other nationalities leaving

So not really related to the recession. More the opening up of a new supply.

As for the optics, everybody will have their own views of course.[/QUOTE]Make sense.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2358870]Romanian girls are more interesting as women than Germans for me. They are different but sometimes also more interesting than Russians and I met many escorting in Paris or Milano or Torino. Latvian or Belarus women are really interesting. I m happy with Romanians and good girls usually still make good business when they choose the good club, complicated at World or LR.[/QUOTE]Then lucky you because you will never run out of Romanians in German FKK for past 10 years.

However, I begin to appreciate the beauty of Romanian girls too, I never did because it was simply too over supplied and fucked too many Romanians LOL. Romanians are beautiful race and Latino a bit also and we should enjoy them while the trend of Romanian dominated line up last because one day it maybe replaced by other nationalities. I at least hope next line up domination will be Ukrainian girls.

In most corners of world, domination of line up are Asians, black, not beautiful white / Latino girls, so at least in German FKK, we are given beautiful Romanian girls straight out of Romanian towns, aren't we lucky!.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2358880]Hi. I reckon the change started about 2005, and as you say by 2008 was well under way, if not almost completed. I remember the day a busload of romanians (probably about 40 girls!!!) turned up at World, changing the club forever. Before that one day the numbers of romanians there were limited.The sudden oversupply of girls led to many girls from other nationalities leaving

So not really related to the recession. More the opening up of a new supply.

As for the optics, everybody will have their own views of course.[/QUOTE]It was in 2006 as reported by Nick and Optimist.

[QUOTE=NickTheG;513480]Guys, on saturday, you would'nt have trusted your eyes, you've missed a very, very special day at the FKK-WORLD.

Saturday afternoon. Not many men around alltogether, low action. I had a lovely chat with Cordellia and other ladies during my extended breakfast.

All of a sudden, about 25 new girls entered as a group the place late in the afternoon, flooded the wintergarten and shattered the foundations and common rules.

In parallel about 10 romanian girls at the same time were sitting in one corner and drinking lots of champaign celebrating the birthday of a well known SW.

This turned the wintergarten into an almost orgiastic scenery. Unbelievable scenes, on the floor, on the table dance platform, several girls giving blowjobs to men at the bar, another troop of new girls went downstairs and attacked men in the whirlpool giving blow-jobs, lots of couch action everywhere.

Seemed like something had come to WORLD and driven them all to madness.

Several of the established SW at WORLD left the place after some time being frustrated or even angry.[/QUOTE]I hope Nick forgives me for quoting his old report, but it really made me smile. Not only because it is a good report, but also because it dates the time of the major Romanian invasion. Which was an important game changer. There were Romanian girls also before 2006, but they were never dominant untill something happened around 2006- 08.

And then we can discuss on and on if it was for good or for bad. Me, for one, has always been intrigued by Romanian beauty. Seeing the right girls their service standards are second to none.

But what happened to couch action, Ortos? Haha!

[QUOTE=Shark16;2359153]It was in 2006 as reported by Nick and Optimist.

I hope Nick forgives me for quoting his old report, but it really made me smile. Not only because it is a good report, but also because it dates the time of the major Romanian invasion. Which was an important game changer. There were Romanian girls also before 2006, but they were never dominant untill something happened around 2006- 08.

And then we can discuss on and on if it was for good or for bad. Me, for one, has always been intrigued by Romanian beauty. Seeing the right girls their service standards are second to none.

But what happened to couch action, Ortos? Haha![/QUOTE]I started in FKK scene in 2007, though I could have started at least 4-5 years before, but your this finding proves my laziness and procrastination! Man, wish I was there that day! I was still lucky to have some good fun public actions at World on the two fancy open beds they used to have on the upstairs main floor. Also at Atlantis, on that fancy bed they had next to the indoor pool and even on the circular couches next to the bar. Public debauchery was very common back then, in fact many of us used to think why go to an FKK if going to a room for sex, there are RLDs and escorts for people who wants sex in private. I can't even remember going to any room for sex in any FKK until maybe 2014-15 LOL. Even Artemis was similar and great then. Back then if you and your girl wanted to be religious publicly, nobody was going to stop you, though some prudes might have looked angry at you two. My first few Romanian experience was not so good, but then started to improve, probably my change of heart about them helped as well. I still miss Germans Sunny and Marie at Oase, from a few years later. FKKs today are only pale shadows of their glory days decade ago. I understand we have to work with what we have in hand today, but I'm still very nostalgic and happy that I had chances to enjoy the best of FKKs could offer.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2359110]Then lucky you because you will never run out of Romanians in German FKK for past 10 years.

However, I begin to appreciate the beauty of Romanian girls too, I never did because it was simply too over supplied and fucked too many Romanians LOL. Romanians are beautiful race and Latino a bit also and we should enjoy them while the trend of Romanian dominated line up last because one day it maybe replaced by other nationalities. I at least hope next line up domination will be Ukrainian girls.

In most corners of world, domination of line up are Asians, black, not beautiful white / Latino girls, so at least in German FKK, we are given beautiful Romanian girls straight out of Romanian towns, aren't we lucky!.[/QUOTE]I maybe the most picky, but I find some beauties among Romanians and when I find one, I make to give her will to be good for me. Usually it works not so bad for me. I learned to love long black hair, when I was attracted by blond. I saw the most perfect woman in my life, for her care, Romanian at World. Romanians are more sensual, more woman, than Germans.

On 2014/2015, kino for public sex at World, where shisha now, also in the garden on Summer. Before renovation, used to have public BJ at Oase. Even at Sharks, no more kino, but small rooms no girl never proposed me to go to, I would have refused.

[QUOTE=Shark16;2359153]
But what happened to couch action, Ortos? Haha![/QUOTE]Took the words right out of my fcking mouth! :)

Shark16. Thanks for finding the old report by Nick the G. Clearly my memory exaggerated the number, so, it was nice you found a report which had details.

Nick's post confirms also my abiding impression of World in the daytime. Very rarely much business before the late afternoon, with many girls getting their first room only after several hours. Hence, Nick was having long chats with girls, one of whom he named and I am particularly fond of :D

I guess the only reliable option now is a gangbang or swingerclub, but that is somehow not the same buzz.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2359181]I still miss Germans Sunny and Marie at Oase, from a few years later. [/QUOTE]Me too! But they probably don't look like we expect anymore.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2359191]On 2014/2015, kino for public sex at World, where shisha now, also in the garden on Summer. Before renovation, used to have public BJ at Oase. Even at Sharks, no more kino, but small rooms no girl never proposed me to go to, I would have refused.[/QUOTE]Only girl I have noticed constantly taking customers to the Sharks ex kino now tiny cubicle beds recently is Micky, for her usual 10-15 minutes of APS (Asian Processing Scam).

[QUOTE=Optimist;2359230]I guess the only reliable option now is a gangbang or swingerclub, but that is somehow not the same buzz.[/QUOTE]Taking a hot open-minded FKK girl to a swingerclub for public sex is hella fun.

Or you can still have old school FKK public sex in most FKK clubs in Switzerland and Austria, but I would say Globe now took it to the next level by making it free for the punter and putting special music and lights for full on sessions on stage. If you like public sex, you must experience a Globe Tuesday at least once in your lifetime as a bucket list item, albeit 3 times more expensive than Germany but also many times more reliable service over Germany currently. Totally worth it in my experience.

For cheaper public (and religious!) sex, Bernds downstairs bar / couch area is still an option, probably the only thing that justifies their 70e entry fee.

I read (I think in FuckedUpSwede's report) of public full service happening at the Finca in very open smoking area but never saw any in my 6-7 all days visits in last couple of months. Although the corner bed near the massage area is semi-public, and the kino is pretty much full public, both are too dark even in daytime to call it full public IMHO.

I did see a full on religious public session at the Grimberg's little back-outdoor area at the extreme right corner on that narrow orange bed/pool chair thing in my last visit this month. There were 3-4 guys and 2 other girls during that show, all looked amused about it. I will try to take Diana (and/or Bella if she comes back) to that outdoor area next time.

I was told that you can still have full public sessions in Dietz, Arabella and F39 (maybe some other RTCs too?) now as long as you are 100% against the religion, which of course I cannot as I cannot practice that much of sin.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2359335]Taking a hot open-minded FKK girl to a swingerclub for public sex is hella fun.

Or you can still have old school FKK public sex in most FKK clubs in Switzerland and Austria, but I would say Globe now took it to the next level by making it free for the punter and putting special music and lights for full on sessions on stage. If you like public sex, you must experience a Globe Tuesday at least once in your lifetime as a bucket list item, albeit 3 times more expensive than Germany but also many times more reliable service over Germany currently. Totally worth it in my experience.

For cheaper public (and religious!) sex, Bernds downstairs bar / couch area is still an option, probably the only thing that justifies their 70e entry fee.

I read (I think in FuckedUpSwede's report) of public full service happening at the Finca in very open smoking area but never saw any in my 6-7 all days visits in last couple of months. Although the corner bed near the massage area is semi-public, and the kino is pretty much full public, both are too dark even in daytime to call it full public IMHO.

I did see a full on religious public session at the Grimberg's little back-outdoor area at the extreme right corner on that narrow orange bed/pool chair thing in my last visit this month. There were 3-4 guys and 2 other girls during that show, all looked amused about it. I will try to take Diana (and/or Bella if she comes back) to that outdoor area next time.

I was told that you can still have full public sessions in Dietz, Arabella and F39 (maybe some other RTCs too?) now as long as you are 100% against the religion, which of course I cannot as I cannot practice that much of sin.[/QUOTE]Sounds like we have more than an appreciation of Marie and Sunny in common! I do enjoy public sex too. I like Palace's kino and have been with WGs there. I know GT has a kino, but I have not been with anyone there.

I was at Globe once on a Tuesday. It was pretty good. A lot of observers rubbing themselves through their robes and getting way too close though. I never saw anyone get the free offer either. I also kind of don't understand it. Why would they give public sex for free when on Tuesdays lots of guys come to pay to have public sex?

Also, as my skills have gotten better and I've been more experienced mongering, I find I'm more reluctant to do public sex. I know oftentimes I won't get the best performance out of the girls if it's public. It makes sense. They don't want to lose themselves in passion, then have another monger observe what we're doing, and then expect to get that too. YMMV always varies with girls.

Tell us more about taking a hot open-minded FKK girl to a swingerclub for public sex. Which club did she comes from, where did you go, how did you get her to go with you?

Are the girl in Bernds or Finca or Grimberg or Dietz, Arabella and F39 as hot as anyone you'll find in Hessen?

What is this religious sex? Missionary? What is against the religion? BJs? Anal?

[QUOTE=Jmioffe;2359364]Sounds like we have more than an appreciation of Marie and Sunny in common! I do enjoy public sex too. I like Palace's kino and have been with WGs there. I know GT has a kino, but I have not been with anyone there.

I was at Globe once on a Tuesday. It was pretty good. A lot of observers rubbing themselves through their robes and getting way too close though. I never saw anyone get the free offer either. I also kind of don't understand it. Why would they give public sex for free when on Tuesdays lots of guys come to pay to have public sex?

Also, as my skills have gotten better and I've been more experienced mongering, I find I'm more reluctant to do public sex. I know oftentimes I won't get the best performance out of the girls if it's public. It makes sense. They don't want to lose themselves in passion, then have another monger observe what we're doing, and then expect to get that too. YMMV always varies with girls.[/QUOTE]LOL it does sound like we have some common appreciations! Don't steal my girls, dude! Just kidding.

Yeah Palace, GT and Paradise (Stuttgart) kinos can still be used for fairly good public action as long as the girl is open-minded, which is increasingly difficult to find. I used to take a Sharks girl to Palace for public fun, before all the prudes started working around 2017. GT kino was fun too when I was there couple of years back. Paradise kino was too last year.

I think Globe uses the free sessions on stage for more like advertisement and promotions, and they sure got me hooked on it after couple of those. Usually they give away 2-3 free on-stage sessions per day, some even 2-girls sessions. Best is to grab a willing girl early in the day (any day, not just Tuesday) and have her ask the manager on duty for the free on-stage session. If the manager on duty is Laura, you are in luck, she is super nice fun and loves to promote public sex. She probably can also explain why they are giving it free (essentially the club pays the girl (s) for the session).

I would say there is also an opposite thinking of why some open-minded girls like public sex. First, they themselves enjoy the public attention, kinda like some girls love to dance on the poles, some likes to video record their sessions etc etc, though not all. Also, a solid sensual & erotic performance in public usually brings the girls a lot more business immediately after, than sitting idle on those stupid couches and bar-stools all day asking men after men "Hey baby! Want to go to room with me?

Can't disclose much details of my swinger clubs experiences mainly because of my commitments to the girls, but all I can say is that many of the open-minded FKK girls are willing and do this with the clients they can trust to go out with. Just ask someone who you had many sessions with and you two clicked. Look for the couple-only 5-star events at joyclub. De, I avoid shabby run-down events that allow single guys as they can be really annoying in such events.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so is the hotness. That said all these clubs I have been this year usually has 1 or 2 girls who are much better looking and better service than 98% of the girls in Hessen big 5 clubs now. Look at my recent reports for some names, but remember YMMV.

Catholic Church has traditionally banned condoms or any artificial barriers for sex; so that's the kind of sex sometimes some of us call it here "religious activity".

[QUOTE=Gino02;2359387]LOL it does sound like we have some common appreciations! Don't steal my girls, dude! Just kidding. [/QUOTE]Thanks for the feedback! LOL, I have visions of newbie lurkers visiting clubs to ask for Sunny or Marie now.

[QUOTE=Shark16;2359153]It was in 2006 as reported by Nick and Optimist.

I hope Nick forgives me for quoting his old report, but it really made me smile. Not only because it is a good report, but also because it dates the time of the major Romanian invasion. Which was an important game changer. There were Romanian girls also before 2006, but they were never dominant untill something happened around 2006- 08.

And then we can discuss on and on if it was for good or for bad. Me, for one, has always been intrigued by Romanian beauty. Seeing the right girls their service standards are second to none.

But what happened to couch action, Ortos? Haha![/QUOTE]In 2007, the EU was enlarged to include Romania and Bulgaria. This allowed girls from these countries to work freely in Germany.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2359184]I maybe the most picky, but I find some beauties among Romanians and when I find one, I make to give her will to be good for me. Usually it works not so bad for me. I learned to love long black hair, when I was attracted by blond. I saw the most perfect woman in my life, for her care, Romanian at World. Romanians are more sensual, more woman, than Germans.[/QUOTE]Well I like German beauties also, it is too bad that they are becoming more scarce.

One day at Babylon I had a session with a lady and when I chit chatted with her afterwards I told her that I had not booked a hotel for the night and she replied that I could book a room at the FKK.

Of course I did that!

It turned out that it was not an actual fuck room you could rent but a room in an adjacent building. The room was pretty basic with only a bed and a sink. Toilet you could find in the corridor, no shower as I could find but mabye you are allowed to use the regular ones in the main building?

It was clean and I could enjoy a large man from russia banging on cars outside in frustration since the girl charged him even if he could not get his dick up. I think he banged on my car as well but I thought "it can take a beating, let the man let out his steam" and went to bed.

Breakfast was served in the FKK 1 hour before opening and it was a new experience for me to have my scrambled eggs in company with half naked, sleepy, beauties! Much better than a hotel filled with grumpy germans scratching their back and reading Rheinische Post. The price was 50 euro a night, fair enough.

So to my question, are there more FKK: s where you can rent a room?

[QUOTE=FuckedUpSwede;2359519]One day at Babylon I had a session with a lady and when I chit chatted with her afterwards I told her that I had not booked a hotel for the night and she replied that I could book a room at the FKK.

Of course I did that!

It turned out that it was not an actual fuck room you could rent but a room in an adjacent building. The room was pretty basic with only a bed and a sink. Toilet you could find in the corridor, no shower as I could find but mabye you are allowed to use the regular ones in the main building?

It was clean and I could enjoy a large man from russia banging on cars outside in frustration since the girl charged him even if he could not get his dick up. I think he banged on my car as well but I thought "it can take a beating, let the man let out his steam" and went to bed.

Breakfast was served in the FKK 1 hour before opening and it was a new experience for me to have my scrambled eggs in company with half naked, sleepy, beauties! Much better than a hotel filled with grumpy germans scratching their back and reading Rheinische Post. The price was 50 euro a night, fair enough.

So to my question, are there more FKK: s where you can rent a room?[/QUOTE]You can sleep in a room where we fuck at World, from 4 am to 11 am, for 100. Hotel in Wellcum. At, some girls proposed me to spend night with me, they didn't know I prefer my car under the bridge, like a tramp, speaking with my friend bicycle, but no girl, even superstar Katalina at Globe, never treated me like a tramp playing princess, she prefers the lover who value her image of herself and stop in public when she see me. I think she understood this is not good for what she see in my eyes. In some clubs like Freubad. Ch, Oase, Samya, Sakura, relax room forbidden to girls, where can sleep until 5 am, so after I drive or work in car.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2359181]I started in FKK scene in 2007, though I could have started at least 4-5 years before,[/QUOTE]Hi there friend.

You are not by any chance the Great Jackyo or the Fantastic Dedalus in disguise? Your writing style certainly would indicate not. It's a big claim to make with regard to being in FKK club attendance since 2007 particularly when your posting record indicates that you started on ISG in December 2017. How could you have possibly ignored your fellow FKK aficionados, here on ISG, for the best part of a decade like this! Of course, I am sure there is a very logical and reasonable explanation which hopefully you might supply. Ah well, good that at least now we have the benefit of your wise words.

I myself have been in FKK attendance since 1955. Sylvana had just started work in FKK World back then!

DA :D

[QUOTE=FuckedUpSwede;2359519] So to my question, are there more FKK: s where you can rent a room?[/QUOTE]Funny post, thanks! I think FKK World lets you rent a room, but more expensive than 50 E.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2359387] I think Globe uses the free sessions on stage for more like advertisement and promotions, and they sure got me hooked on it after couple of those. Usually they give away 2-3 free on-stage sessions per day, some even 2-girls sessions. Best is to grab a willing girl early in the day (any day, not just Tuesday) and have her ask the manager on duty for the free on-stage session. If the manager on duty is Laura, you are in luck, she is super nice fun and loves to promote public sex. She probably can also explain why they are giving it free (essentially the club pays the girl (s) for the session).
[/QUOTE]Thanks for the guidance. Does this mean you have to be ready to go at any time? And does this mean the public performance is only when there's enough of a crowd in the club? And when is that time when the club is most crowded? 9 pm? Later?

[QUOTE=DerAuslander;2359623]Hi there friend.

You are not by any chance the Great Jackyo or the Fantastic Dedalus in disguise? Your writing style certainly would indicate not. It's a big claim to make with regard to being in FKK club attendance since 2007 particularly when your posting record indicates that you started on ISG in December 2017. How could you have possibly ignored your fellow FKK aficionados, here on ISG, for the best part of a decade like this! Of course, I am sure there is a very logical and reasonable explanation which hopefully you might supply. Ah well, good that at least now we have the benefit of your wise words.

I myself have been in FKK attendance since 1955. Sylvana had just started work in FKK World back then!

DA :D[/QUOTE]Hey Foreigner, thank you very very much for even considering me to be the same as the Great Jackyo or the Fantastic Dedalus! I don't have writing or mongering skills even 10% of what any of them has / had, I never had any other handle, and don't plan any for future unless some privacy reasons come up or this handle gets banned for some stupid mistakes LOL. That said, I just checked myself and surprisingly I also don't see any of the very few ISG posts (probably less than 10!) I made between 2007 and 2017. Back then I was lucky to be in real-world relationships on and off (more on than off), so my posts usually used to be only occasional newbie questions with zero values to any experienced mongers, but managed to take numerous Germany and Switzerland trips in those 10 years.

You are absolutely correct to say that was the best part of the decade for FKK scene. We were lucky, very lucky! Well, you are even luckier to have started in 1995, how was Sylvana back then?

[QUOTE=Jmioffe;2359671]Thanks for the guidance. Does this mean you have to be ready to go at any time? And does this mean the public performance is only when there's enough of a crowd in the club? And when is that time when the club is most crowded? 9 pm? Later?[/QUOTE]Well, define "ready"? With any hot Globe girl who wants to fuck me on-stage, I think I am almost always ready LOL. Ok, joking aside, no you don; t have to be ready to go any time; you plan with the girl and the manager on what time you want to go on-stage. But you should start planning it early on the day, otherwise the manager may have already committed to other guys for the max 2-3 free sessions she is allowed to give away per day. I don't think you can plan it days in advance either, but maybe I will ask next time.

I have seen free on-stage performances when the club has too much crowd (eg in New Year's Eve party) but also has only 5-10 people around watching the stage. So I guess it varies.

Usually the club is more crowded Fri and Sat after 8 or 9 pm, so I try to avoid those times / days. Very similar to pretty much any FKK in Germany or Switzerland. If you want to practice public sex in a bit smaller setup first, you can try History on Mondays, they also have a kick-ass manager lady who will encourage and guide you on public sex.

[QUOTE=Jmioffe;2359668]Funny post, thanks! I think FKK World lets you rent a room, but more expensive than 50 E.[/QUOTE]If I remember correctly, I paid 100 e to stay the night in World in one of the main-floor backside rooms (they call VIP rooms I think) few years back. I was fucked up drunk with a WG, and she suggested we stay the night there. Glad I did, we had so much fun rest of the night / morning after the club closed, and I didn't have to drive drunk at 5 am. But they kick you out at 10 am from those rooms (and the club) so that they can clean and prep the rooms for the new day, and no breakfast at all. So it's not ideal, but serves the purpose when you are too drunk to drive, and more so if a girl stays with you.

I will have to try the Babylon hotel next time I need. Manager mentioned the availability before, but never knew any details like FUS posted, sounds much better than the World arrangement.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2359181]I started in FKK scene in 2007, though I could have started at least 4-5 years before[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=DerAuslander;2359623]Hi there friend.

You are not by any chance the Great Jackyo or the Fantastic Dedalus in disguise? Your writing style certainly would indicate not. It's a big claim to make with regard to being in FKK club attendance since 2007 particularly when your posting record indicates that you started on ISG in December 2017. How could you have possibly ignored your fellow FKK aficionados, here on ISG, for the best part of a decade like this! Of course, I am sure there is a very logical and reasonable explanation which hopefully you might supply. Ah well, good that at least now we have the benefit of your wise words.

I myself have been in FKK attendance since 1955. Sylvana had just started work in FKK World back then!

DA :D[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Gino02;2359675]I just checked myself and surprisingly I also don't see any of the very few ISG posts (probably less than 10!) I made between 2007 and 2017. Back then I was lucky to be in real-world relationships on and off (more on than off), so my posts usually used to be only occasional newbie questions with zero values to any experienced mongers, but managed to take numerous Germany and Switzerland trips in those 10 years.

You are absolutely correct to say that was the best part of the decade for FKK scene. We were lucky, very lucky! Well, you are even luckier to have started in 1995, how was Sylvana back then?[/QUOTE]Oh dear, my friend, that's very unfortunate and inconvenient. However, not to worry even though there has been much concern of late, I am sure that everyone will take what you say on complete and absolute trust!

Also, my reference to 1955 (nineteen fifty-five) and Sylvana (the old FKK hooker) was unfortunately a bad joke. Just a bit of fun and codswallop but totally in contrast to what many including yourself would actually post. Apologies if this seems to be somewhat frivolous, but in the Lounge I hope ok to take a little liberty and to try (badly I'm sure) to inject a little irony and humour.

Take care

DA :D

[QUOTE=DerAuslander;2359711]Oh dear, my friend, that's very unfortunate and inconvenient. However, not to worry even though there has been much concern of late, I am sure that everyone will take what you say on complete and absolute trust!

Also, my reference to 1955 (nineteen fifty-five) and Sylvana (the old FKK hooker) was unfortunately a bad joke. Just a bit of fun and codswallop but totally in contrast to what many including yourself would actually post. Apologies if this seems to be somewhat frivolous, but in the Lounge I hope ok to take a little liberty and to try (badly I'm sure) to inject a little irony and humour.

Take care.[/QUOTE]1955. I see. I got to first start learning how to read, then only I can understand written jokes. But maybe too late in this old age. Oh well.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2359675]Hey Foreigner, thank you very very much for even considering me to be the same as the Great Jackyo or the Fantastic Dedalus! I don't have writing or mongering skills even 10% of what any of them has / had, I never had any other handle, and don't plan any for future unless some privacy reasons come up or this handle gets banned for some stupid mistakes LOL. That said, I just checked myself and surprisingly I also don't see any of the very few ISG posts (probably less than 10!) I made between 2007 and 2017.[/QUOTE]The old posts are still there:

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?1089-General-Info&p=281260&viewfull=1#post281260[/URL]

[QUOTE=MrHo;2359492]Well I like German beauties also, it is too bad that they are becoming more scarce.[/QUOTE]German girls in FKK are easier than Romanians for natural sex, don t need to go to RTC, but most are so low level in mind, they are not much interesting. I find some Romanian beauties more interesting.

[QUOTE=Samplerr;2359726]The old posts are still there:

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?1089-General-Info&p=281260&viewfull=1#post281260[/URL][/QUOTE]Always fun to read old posts. These early posts by Gino trailblazed a unique style which seems to have set the standard for many new members, and gives the FKK Threads their modern character

But I have a question. I am too dim to be able to post links effectively, never being able to get the last post number in the link. Could some more enlightened member tell me how to remedy my ignorance (politely if possible LOL)?

[QUOTE=Optimist;2359745]Always fun to read old posts. These early posts by Gino trailblazed a unique style which seems to have set the standard for many new members, and gives the FKK Threads their modern character

But I have a question. I am too dim to be able to post links effectively, never being able to get the last post number in the link. Could some more enlightened member tell me how to remedy my ignorance (politely if possible LOL)?[/QUOTE]Just move / QUOTE with brackets to after the post number. Somehow ISG's autocorrect misplaces these brackets when copying another post. Editing is necessary. Boring, but necessary.

I even had to delete the brackets in this post just to have it sent. Hopeless!

Good luck, old chap! :)

[QUOTE=Shark16;2359756]Just move / QUOTE with brackets to after the post number. Somehow ISG's autocorrect misplaces these brackets when copying another post. Editing is necessary. Boring, but necessary.

I even had to delete the brackets in this post just to have it sent. Hopeless!

Good luck, old chap! :)[/QUOTE]Much appreciated.

[QUOTE=Samplerr;2359726]The old posts are still there:

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?1089-General-Info&p=281260&viewfull=1#post281260[/URL][/QUOTE]Thanks Samplerr. Now I know there is an Advaced Search option where a user's exact name can be entered to find all posts.

I thought I started in 2007, but actually in 2004! Damn! Old age is not creeping in, it's already full set in!

Someone I am in contact with needs to make space for new messages.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2359545]I prefer my car under the bridge, like a tramp, speaking with my friend bicycle[/QUOTE]Interesting choice! You metioned earlier that you have a Trabant, is this the car you sleep in? I really hope it is the estate version, and that you can fold down the back seat, or do you sleep in the back seat? Have you got a bicycle holder on your trailer hook?

It must be an unusual sight to see a frenchman sleeping in a Trabant under a bridge even in Germany, do you get problems with the police?

[QUOTE=FuckedUpSwede;2359885]Interesting choice! You metioned earlier that you have a Trabant, is this the car you sleep in? I really hope it is the estate version, and that you can fold down the back seat, or do you sleep in the back seat? Have you got a bicycle holder on your trailer hook?

It must be an unusual sight to see a frenchman sleeping in a Trabant under a bridge even in Germany, do you get problems with the police?[/QUOTE]You asked for clubs where can sleep, You know Bab Elsdorf, I added World where You can sleep in a room where You fucked a girl and Wellcum which is in Austria on Italian border. Hotel at Wellcum and some girls, not this Summer for me, propose to spend night with You. Unfortunately, I don t have a trabant, a joke, a dream, but I love my car because like FKK girls, I made improve a lot for me, nearly 50% powerful increased, with balance for engine and turbo and improved electronic by Shiftech which are the best for this, more than 500000 kms, full speed in Germany every week end, no oil added between 2 services every 30000 kms, Audi which know only about improvement, are amazed about job I did on my own, with my brain used to build. Super soft tires and I laughed about Germans under rain or in Winter, as I say to Audi: Quattro is only to ski, with super soft which have to be warmed and good balance, no need. So I sleep with her and my best friend bicycle prepared for very climby. Professionals are 39/32 in Zoncolan which is until 22/23 % and kilometers more than 19% average. Gentile di Mione is 28% on 3 last kilometers, I put engine refreshing liquid nearly to 130 degrees in the red, to climb on top, I use 34/36 to climb with my legs and my heart in red zone. Both are 1 hour from Wellcum. For my finals to finish season and maybe Mila to recover. I only get problem with Swiss administration because I refuse they fuck me with their charge on penalties. Switzerland taught me ski when I was a child, now they make me meet Albanian drug dealers in jail, I learn new things thanks to Swiss who seem to be good clients for drugs when my drug is my passion and adrenaline. Sometimes I m forbidden to drive in Germany because of too big overspeeds on autobahns, but alcohol and drugs always on 0 level. No other problem and when I sleep in driver seat, at least no over speed.

Hi guys!

I would like to ask for an advice. I tried searching but in general the search function didn't work.

What would you say is the best FKK in Germany or Austria? I do go frequently to Golden Time in Vienna but a lot of people say that there are much better clubs in Germany or even Austria. I don't like typical laufhaus, I do prefer the sauna clubs (or FKK).

In general I'm looking for a place with a large number of girls where I can have options to choose from and sped a few hours there.

Thank you!

[QUOTE=FuckedUpSwede;2359885]Interesting choice! You metioned earlier that you have a Trabant, is this the car you sleep in? I really hope it is the estate version, and that you can fold down the back seat, or do you sleep in the back seat? Have you got a bicycle holder on your trailer hook?

It must be an unusual sight to see a frenchman sleeping in a Trabant under a bridge even in Germany, do you get problems with the police?[/QUOTE]Whatever idiosyncrasies [B]Sirioja[/B] may or may not have, [U]he is a much respected member of this forum[/U] who contributes often, contributes real reports, real opinions and posts with one handle. He helps make this forum a better place. Something that is very much needed and appreciated now. Some could learn a lot from him! More power to you [B]Sirioja[/B]! Keep up the excellent work.

[QUOTE=DerAuslander;2359996]Whatever idiosyncrasies [B]Sirioja[/B] may or may not have, [U]he is a much respected member of this forum[/U] who contributes often, contributes real reports, real opinions and posts with one handle. He helps make this forum a better place. Something that is very much needed and appreciated now. Some could learn a lot from him! More power to you [B]Sirioja[/B]! Keep up the excellent work.[/QUOTE]I really do not mean to question Siroja in any way. I myself slept in and on my car during my recent 1 month trip to Germany. I slept at camping places because I did not know the german law about sleeping in cars in the street. I had a bicycle on my my trailer hook but it got stolen in Hamburg. I suppose Siroja have a much more expensive bike than what I had since he is doing a lot of bicycling so I did want to remind him of this incident and ask him how he has solved this problem. I have a rare car as well and I have been stopped on the autobahn just because the police was interested in the car. Because of this it would be interesting to know his experiences. I have a 1974 Chevrolet Suburban and I get really fed up about sleeping in the back seat even if I'm only 174 cm long so I imaging sleeping in a small car, like an Trabant, would be really painful. When I fold my backseat I have 240 120 cm space, which is really good. A Trabant estate is a really rare car so I have never seen if you could fold the back seat on this one to get decent leg room. I can understand the choice to park under a bridge since then you will not be bothered by the sun baking the car early in the morning so I find it very interesting indeed!

[QUOTE=DerAuslander;2359996]Whatever idiosyncrasies [B]Sirioja[/B] may or may not have, [U]he is a much respected member of this forum[/U] who contributes often, contributes real reports, real opinions and posts with one handle. He helps make this forum a better place. Something that is very much needed and appreciated now. Some could learn a lot from him! More power to you [B]Sirioja[/B]! Keep up the excellent work.[/QUOTE]Information everybody should know: Christmas / Sylvester, Orthodox Easter and August are not best casting times, because girls who have a very hard job, are happy to return to their roots, family, or to go on holidays like me.

Hello all,

Making my second annual FKK trip from the states. Any FKK's allow videoing the fun, even for an additional fee?

[QUOTE=FuckedUpSwede;2360014]I myself slept in and on my car during my recent 1 month trip to Germany. I slept at camping places because I did not know the german law about sleeping in cars in the street.[/QUOTE]I see that renting a car is relatively cheap in Germany. And advice on dos and don't in renting a car there? What is the german law about sleeping in cars on the street? Also do you know a good website or app for finding camping places? Thanks.

[QUOTE=LuckyNuts;2360091]I see that renting a car is relatively cheap in Germany. And advice on dos and don't in renting a car there? What is the german law about sleeping in cars on the street? Also do you know a good website or app for finding camping places? Thanks.[/QUOTE]There is a thread for this.

Just make sure that you completely fill the tank or they will charge you as if you returned the car on empty. So 7/8's full and they consider the car empty in Frankfort and there are no gas stations adjacent to the car rental place. Also, be prepared to fill out as much paperwork as you would when applying for a mortgage. Upon return of your rental, the German's will go over that car like an episode of CSI Miami. It can be like a crime scene so look over your care really good before you take it out. I hope you can drive a stick. Also, look out for the passive speed enforcement cameras. I got two tickets delivered to my office mail 3 months after I returned my car. The ticket was not so bad the Avis surcharge for all the work they had to do to find me was more than the ticket. I didn't pay it. They had pictures of my doppelgänger in the driver's seat. If the trains are convenient take the trains.

[QUOTE=DerAuslander;2359996]Whatever idiosyncrasies [B]Sirioja[/B] may or may not have, [U]he is a much respected member of this forum[/U] who contributes often, contributes real reports, real opinions and posts with one handle. He helps make this forum a better place. Something that is very much needed and appreciated now. Some could learn a lot from him! More power to you [B]Sirioja[/B]! Keep up the excellent work.[/QUOTE]I agree with all of the above, Siri adds much to the board and is a great asset. And I believe in one member-one handle.

Siri comes here and fucks, posts actual experiences in a factual manner and to insult him is to insult all the others who do the same. I don't care if Siri sleeps in a car, the side of the road in the bushes or a five star hotel in the city what I do care about and respect is his devotion to honesty. I will second the's closing ' Keep up the excellent work!

[QUOTE=HungryStud101;2360109]There is a thread for this.

Just make sure that you completely fill the tank or they will charge you as if you returned the car on empty. So 7/8's full and they consider the car empty in Frankfort and there are no gas stations adjacent to the car rental place. Also, be prepared to fill out as much paperwork as you would when applying for a mortgage. Upon return of your rental, the German's will go over that car like an episode of CSI Miami. It can be like a crime scene so look over your care really good before you take it out. I hope you can drive a stick. Also, look out for the passive speed enforcement cameras. I got two tickets delivered to my office mail 3 months after I returned my car. The ticket was not so bad the Avis surcharge for all the work they had to do to find me was more than the ticket. I didn't pay it. They had pictures of my doppelgnger in the driver's seat. If the trains are convenient take the trains.[/QUOTE]You are scaring him, or you just had bad experiences but I would say it's not nearly as bad as you wrote. This Esso 24 x7 gas station is literally 2 minutes before car rental returns (both terminals), and usually prices are better than stations off of autobahns:
Esso, Unterschweinstiege 2, 60549 Frankfurt am Main, Germany.

One thing I noticed is that gas is roughly 15-20% cheaper in the inner city stations compared to the ones next to autobahns, FYI.

True they check the car like hawk when you return it, but if you had used your credit card that covers rental cars and you didn't buy any insurance from car rental or your booking agency, you credit card company will cover any damage to the car up to whatever limit the CC company has on your record. Best is to call your CC company for full info before you rent the car. Or just buy full insurance from rental or booking company. In any case, if you are covered by insurance with zero deductible, you don't have to worry. Even in Germany. So why worry too much.

Frankfurt now has enough automatic transmission cars, you don't really have to take a stick shift. In fact many of the German manufacturers are stopping or drastically reducing manual transmission cars for last few years.

You are right about the traffic cameras and tickets and the rental company charging too much fees for them. If you have good enough data connection on your phone (eg T-Mobile or Google Fi from US or something else) try to use Waze and you should get alerts for speed traps and traffic cameras ahead of them.

So far in last 15 years I had no problem with Hertz, Avis, Enterprise and Europcar groups in Germany. Avis particularly no longer asks any paper to sign, everything electronic at the counter, send email to you with full docs, and you are out if the counter in couple of minutes (besides any queue of other renters you may needed wait in). Others are similar time too only that they still give you a printed contract to carry. Key is to make your car rental booking ahead online, otherwise you will spend a long time at the counter. I prefer Expedia App for booking cars, never had good luck with other sites.

Sixt once tried to charge me over 4000 e for a dent they had before, so I had to send them an attorney's letter which stopped their pestering calls but they also put me in their DNR list. I should have checked the car more carefully before taking it out, and at least should have had my CC company deal with it as opposed to trying to stop their scam by myself.

Don't know anything about German laws about sleeping in the car on the streets but I know you can easily sleep in your car in the parking lots of Oase, Sharks and probably other FKKs too. Also, sleeping in your car in any gas station or resting stop off of any autobahn is perfectly legal, and most even has 24x7 toilets for 70c and some with showers as well. Truckers use them all year and cars use them mainly in summer. Just be careful not to get pneumonia if it's cold outside.

It's a personal choice but renting a car definitely gives much more freedom, time and flexibility to explore various clubs as opposed to depending on public transit. Only thing is that you must be super alert while driving in Germany which you don't have to in public transit.

[QUOTE=LuckyNuts;2360091]I see that renting a car is relatively cheap in Germany. And advice on dos and don't in renting a car there? What is the german law about sleeping in cars on the street? Also do you know a good website or app for finding camping places? Thanks.[/QUOTE]I usually use google maps to find me a campplatz.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2359928]now they make me meet Albanian drug dealers in jail, I learn new things thanks to Swiss who seem to be good clients for drugs when my drug is my passion and adrenaline. Sometimes I m forbidden to drive in Germany because of too big overspeeds on autobahns, but alcohol and drugs always on 0 level. No other problem and when I sleep in driver seat, at least no over speed.[/QUOTE]Been there, done that. Chemical substances are highly overestimated. Women and techno parties are my drugs. I sold my motorbike and only own old slow cars since it maybe prolong my life a bit.

Thanks for the tip about world!, I think I will pass since 100 Eur is over my budget for rooms if it do not include half naked ladies, tea and scrambled eggs.

It appears that Betty's English puppet and Rammstein song subject are not happy with many people posting here. I don't understand these attacks on Gino and FuS and other members. Gino has been posting here for years, and is far more coherent and informed than the bull terriers at his heels. FUS is new but he too appears to be an intelligent man and has posted some good reviews so far. I would say WorldPeace and Akebono are also extremely well informed writers and seasoned mongers. Well done, gents.

In the meanwhile, Betty's STD man gave himself a glowing review in ROD which is not a classy thing to do.

Apollyon has been telling us that Betty's puppet has lost it of late. Perhaps troubles at home.

I want to thank Neurosynth for his well balanced contributions. Also to Mr. Ho, Syzygies, Sirioja and TankDown and his friend TheCane.

Finally, ISG is by far the best forum for information about sex tourism in the world. A huge thanks to the moderator of the forum.

[QUOTE=LuckyNuts;2360091]I see that renting a car is relatively cheap in Germany. And advice on dos and don't in renting a car there? What is the german law about sleeping in cars on the street? Also do you know a good website or app for finding camping places? Thanks.[/QUOTE]I highly doubt there is a German law regarding that. Just consider all the truckers living on the road. They sleep in their 'cars' all year around. Come on, the comment regarding that 'German law' was probably nothing more than a pun pulling the bones of some posters here. And I suspect related to some FKK trip organizers fearing for their business models.

There are loads of stops along the autobahn there for truckers to pit stop and take a nap. That is why they are there, because it is illegal for truckers and drivers to drive for more than 8 hours or something in one go without taking a nap.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2360015]Information everybody should know: Christmas / Sylvester, Orthodox Easter and August are not best casting times, because girls who have a very hard job, are happy to return to their roots, family, or to go on holidays like me.[/QUOTE]I just learned a hard lesson on that as I just flew in from the states this last week and went to Oase Friday and Saturday and after being so pumped for 3 months.

It was the worst ever and never seen it like that ever and there were way more men than women and only about 4 to 5 even consider 7+.

All my Oase exp. Have been so good that I didn't even have a clue it was ever bad. I was there in October and January and it was great both of those months so.

I assumed its always good all year around all the great Romanian girls were gone and I found myself bored at times and that has never happened.

And the talent was the exact same from one night to next but maybe 2 different girls the second night. So your saying I have hope that it will return to normal.

So glad to hear that as I loved my past exp. And wanted to repeat them.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2359928]You asked for clubs where can sleep, You know Bab Elsdorf, I added World where You can sleep in a room where You fucked a girl and Wellcum which is in Austria on Italian border. Hotel at Wellcum and some girls, not this Summer for me, propose to spend night with You. [/QUOTE]You know this would be kind of fun. I would like to try this. Can you skip the entrance fee the next day? You never left the club and you are already inside? (I'm assuming the room is inside?) You would be first to get the good girls as they arrive and you would save money on cab fare, correct? The problem is, when I get out of the FKK, I write a report for a few hours. This could be awkward but it could be good. "Hey Amanda. What's your friend's name with the dark hair and big tits? How old is she and does she do anal?"

How are the breakfasts? How about the receipts? Most of the time I am making a detour on a business trip. I would hate to turn in a receipt with FKK World on it.

Yes good Sirioja. I appreciate your reports. I read them when I am planning a trip or "in country.".

In my view, sleeping in the FKK for a night has some slight novelty value but it is not a great choice on a sustainable basis. First, you got to wait till closing hours to get "checked in". Paying 100 bucks for 6 to 7 hours is a rip off for the quality of room and service you are getting in return. This is especially true if you already rented a car, in which case you can easily drive at closing or whenever you wanted and drive to a real hotel that you can rent at a similar price. Since the room is yours only for a few hours, you got to worry about where to keep your bags before and after the rental period, particularly if you are plan to hit up that club for a few days in a row.

If the club built a real hotel adjoining the club and rented rooms at the same terms and prices as a any real hotel, yes it would be worth it.

Also, I'm not aware that any club is waiving the entry fee to the club to room renters. At least not that I have seen.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2360201]Paying 100 bucks for 6 to 7 hours is a rip off for the quality of room and service you are getting in return. If the club built a real hotel ....... it would be worth it ...... any club is waiving the entry fee to the club to room renters.[/QUOTE]Clubs like World or Babylon may offer the possibility to stay over night, but to be honest, clubs like World close at 4/5 am and the time for a comfortable sleep is rather limited. It's only an option for drunken guys who don't have an accomodation already booked. In case you already have booked a hotel room in advance it's better to spend the 100 bucks for a taxi drive to that hotel.

Fkk clubs want to make nusiness. Thus don't expect any packages with reduced entry fee or other goodies.

[QUOTE=Triplestudrazz;2360074]Hello all,

Making my second annual FKK trip from the states. Any FKK's allow videoing the fun, even for an additional fee?[/QUOTE]If you take photos or videos of girls and clients, You will have problems, only in private if girl agree. This is reason why now stickers on phones at GT, after Asian blogs.

[QUOTE=Jkkk8;2360191]I just learned a hard lesson on that as I just flew in from the states this last week and went to Oase Friday and Saturday and after being so pumped for 3 months.

It was the worst ever and never seen it like that ever and there were way more men than women and only about 4 to 5 even consider 7+.

All my Oase exp. Have been so good that I didn't even have a clue it was ever bad. I was there in October and January and it was great both of those months so.

I assumed its always good all year around all the great Romanian girls were gone and I found myself bored at times and that has never happened.

And the talent was the exact same from one night to next but maybe 2 different girls the second night. So your saying I have hope that it will return to normal.

So glad to hear that as I loved my past exp. And wanted to repeat them.[/QUOTE]Holidays time for girls who made good money, but they will return on September until Christmas, back on January until Easter, back on May until July. FKK are not on top on Summer holidays time, except in Switzerland and south Austria for Italian business. I have better places to spend my holidays than brothels, in my beloved mountains.

[QUOTE=Stalesihonim;2359971]Hi guys!

I would like to ask for an advice. I tried searching but in general the search function didn't work.

What would you say is the best FKK in Germany or Austria? I do go frequently to Golden Time in Vienna but a lot of people say that there are much better clubs in Germany or even Austria. I don't like typical laufhaus, I do prefer the sauna clubs (or FKK).

In general I'm looking for a place with a large number of girls where I can have options to choose from and sped a few hours there.

Thank you![/QUOTE]In Austria, Wellcum seem to be number 1, many girls, some really beautiful natural tits, but lack of pretty faces and elegance for me. Prettiest for me is Georgia ex Ina Acapulco Velbert. De. Seem some girls left GT Vienna because of falling business.

For many girls in Germany, Sharks is number 1. I was told on some Fridays, 200/250 girls, too many for me, but I didn't find only 1 attractive to make me feel: I want her, when I really find this feeling. Also Oase, or Samya for many girls. For fresh girls, Samya, Acapulco Velbert or Gold.

For higher level for looks and love in bed, Globe close to Zurich and Freubad north Bern is not bad, for 269 CHF = 245 €, for entry with free foods and drinks and 1 hour in room on Swiss level, even I hate Swiss robbers administration.

For me, on average, Germany is less expensive and higher level than Austria. Switzerland is higher level and sometimes not much more expensive. Full 30 GFE mn can be for 80/90 € in Switzerland with shower together after, 130€ at Globe, 260€ at Aphrodisia.

My subjective tastes of course. I m only interested by beauties and love in bed, not by trash PSE nor dolls in plastic.

[QUOTE=HungryStud101;2360196]You know this would be kind of fun. I would like to try this. Can you skip the entrance fee the next day? You never left the club and you are already inside? (I'm assuming the room is inside?) You would be first to get the good girls as they arrive and you would save money on cab fare, correct? The problem is, when I get out of the FKK, I write a report for a few hours. This could be awkward but it could be good. "Hey Amanda. What's your friend's name with the dark hair and big tits? How old is she and does she do anal?"

How are the breakfasts? How about the receipts? Most of the time I am making a detour on a business trip. I would hate to turn in a receipt with FKK World on it.

Yes good Sirioja. I appreciate your reports. I read them when I am planning a trip or "in country.".[/QUOTE]At Bab or World or Wellcum, even sleeping in club, You have to pay entry if You want to stay on next day. Maybe only breakfast included with night. At World, I would like to sleep in room in tree. Bad luck super model I wanted as soon I was her, more than 1,80 bare feet, was not enthusiastic to play monkey with me, but real GFE with sex machine who killed her for her first room of her day, but I m pretty sure she would not have said no to a second killing room, some of WGs appreciate to feel woman for sex, she was full smiling whole day.

The good news for American punters like myself (yes, I know that some guys here seem to be getting upset about any such acknowledgement about my nationality although similar casual mentions by many other members is blithely ignored by these self appointed faux-moderators) is that Euro keeps crashing downwards. Now it is in touching distance of 1.1 dollars. So, assuming you exchange your greenbacks at the official rate, you would have paid $125 for an hour session in January of 2018, now it is going to cost just $110. For a volume monger like myself taking 15 to 20 sessions give or take in a few days per trip, the savings could be a couple of hundreds dollars relative to 20 months ago.

And with German economy tipping into recession per the Bundesbank warning (and with our Brit cousins similarly looking at lousy job prospects and their own sinking currency), American dudes should have a clearer path to the ladies and the rooms. Even the Asian hunters may seek you out. Enjoy while this lasts.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2360438]The good news for American punters like myself
[/QUOTE]Which team do you or did you play for? Few realise the importance of this position. A well organised squad needs to have a great punter as field position is everything so need one who is great at not only trying to be able to kick it out of bounds inside the 4. 572 meter line and if in the open field buried deep in one's own side of the field a guy who can boot the ball 45.72 meters or more is ideal. Nothing worse than a muffed punt either; you end up giving the opposing team great field position to score on you easier.

Did you punt in high school, college or in the NFL or perhaps the old USFL?

The Redskins sure could use a good punter today. Tress Way isn't that great with just an average of 41.42 meters per punt.

If you are interested in the position I could arrange a meeting with the owner of this great American Football Team owned by Daniel Snyder, just let me know.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2360438]The good news for American punters like myself[/QUOTE]Touchdown! Come on them Dallas Cowboys!

:)

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2360438]The good news for American punters like myself (yes, I know that some guys here seem to be getting upset about any such acknowledgement about my nationality although similar casual mentions by many other members is blithely ignored by these self appointed faux-moderators) is that Euro keeps crashing downwards. Now it is in touching distance of 1.1 dollars. So, assuming you exchange your greenbacks at the official rate, you would have paid $125 for an hour session in January of 2018, now it is going to cost just $110. For a volume monger like myself taking 15 to 20 sessions give or take in a few days per trip, the savings could be a couple of hundreds dollars relative to 20 months ago.

And with German economy tipping into recession per the Bundesbank warning (and with our Brit cousins similarly looking at lousy job prospects and their own sinking currency), American dudes should have a clearer path to the ladies and the rooms. Even the Asian hunters may seek you out. Enjoy while this lasts.[/QUOTE]Indeed you should! For me, the currency rate is terrible compared to 5-6 years ago. What used to cost me 100 e, now cost 140 e etc.

But you Americans got to hurry, because fed is worried Trump may even dump their entire independence system. And he just demanded a 1% interest rate dump within a short time frame. That is 100 basis points. So that should also dump the dollar compared to the euro. Don't ask me by how much, because lately guessing these currency rates has just turned impossible. But 10% down for the dollar at least I would suspect. Possibly even 15% down unless the esb follows up shortly.

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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2360438]The good news for American punters like myself (yes, I know that some guys here seem to be getting upset about any such acknowledgement about my nationality although similar casual mentions by many other members is blithely ignored by these self appointed faux-moderators) is that Euro keeps crashing downwards. Now it is in touching distance of 1.1 dollars. So, assuming you exchange your greenbacks at the official rate, you would have paid $125 for an hour session in January of 2018, now it is going to cost just $110. For a volume monger like myself taking 15 to 20 sessions give or take in a few days per trip, the savings could be a couple of hundreds dollars relative to 20 months ago.

And with German economy tipping into recession per the Bundesbank warning (and with our Brit cousins similarly looking at lousy job prospects and their own sinking currency), American dudes should have a clearer path to the ladies and the rooms. Even the Asian hunters may seek you out. Enjoy while this lasts.[/QUOTE]Hard to know what way the World economy is heading. Trade wars, Brexit not to mention issues in the Middle East may upset everyone's apple cart. If there are winners at the moment, no telling if they will be winning for very long.

[QUOTE=DerAuslander;2360543]Touchdown! Come on them Dallas Cowboys![/QUOTE]More a New England Patriots man myself!

[QUOTE=DenHaag;2360567]Hard to know what way the World economy is heading. Trade wars, Brexit not to mention issues in the Middle East may upset everyone's apple cart. If there are winners at the moment, no telling if they will be winning for very long.[/QUOTE]Yes sure, in the longer run you are right. We will leave the longer term prognostications to the dude who pompously prattled about stocks and bonds and other stuff a couple of days ago. But the cheaper Euro is here and now and our dollars will go a bit further in the clubs and that's all that matters at the moment.

Since our cowboy friend talks like he knows a little bit football, the stronger dollar is like having the wind behind the punt if you will. Or the punt took a lucky bounce. Enjoy it while it lasts.

A few funny incidents this past year due to not speaking the same native language.

Thifany. My Brazilian unicorn that I flew to London. Two days in she confesses to me she is not sleeping well due to my snoring. So we agree to get some earplugs when we are out souvenir shopping. As we walk down the street after a few shops she says "I almost forgot. I need to get tampons!

And I think oh fuck me in the ass, really? I mean we have theee days left and she gets her period?

After we start talking about where to get them etc it becomes clear she means EARPLUGS. Just an error in translation! Well I guess they both fill holes, so maybe the same in SpanisH? Anyhow. We both got a laugh.

Kendall. Diva London. I had been with Kendall the prior year. So when I showed up at her flat she recognized me. But she couldn't quite place me. Then she says as only a frank Romanian WG would: "oh I remember you. You fuck a lot. ".

So I say, yeah I mean I travel a lot and so I see a lot of girls. And she says "no no. I mean you fuck a very long time!" Hahaha. LOL. Cracked me up.

Cambria. Diva London. We are getting into it and she is on top and starts licking and sucking my ear. I want to encourage her so I tell her it feels really good. To which she says "Yeah. Old people like that. ".

Mildly offended I offer, "well I'm not THAT old. ".

And she laughs and says "I didn't say OLD people. I said ALL people ". Hahaha. OMG I laughed so hard.

Anyhow just a few of my lost in translation moments.

Errata. Thifany speaks Portuguese not Spanish. Got my Buenos Aires girl on my mind!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2360577]A few funny incidents this past year due to not speaking the same native language.

Thifany. My Brazilian unicorn that I flew to London. Two days in she confesses to me she is not sleeping well due to my snoring. So we agree to get some earplugs when we are out souvenir shopping. As we walk down the street after a few shops she says "I almost forgot. I need to get tampons!

And I think oh fuck me in the ass, really? I mean we have theee days left and she gets her period?

After we start talking about where to get them etc it becomes clear she means EARPLUGS. Just an error in translation! Well I guess they both fill holes, so maybe the same in SpanisH? Anyhow. We both got a laugh.

Kendall. Diva London. I had been with Kendall the prior year. So when I showed up at her flat she recognized me. But she couldn't quite place me. Then she says as only a frank Romanian WG would: "oh I remember you. You fuck a lot. ".

So I say, yeah I mean I travel a lot and so I see a lot of girls. And she says "no no. I mean you fuck a very long time!" Hahaha. LOL. Cracked me up.

Cambria. Diva London. We are getting into it and she is on top and starts licking and sucking my ear. I want to encourage her so I tell her it feels really good. To which she says "Yeah. Old people like that. ".

Mildly offended I offer, "well I'm not THAT old. ".

And she laughs and says "I didn't say OLD people. I said ALL people ". Hahaha. OMG I laughed so hard.

Anyhow just a few of my lost in translation moments.[/QUOTE]

Sirioja,

Thanks for the response. My intent was to find a place that is comfortable with video, but not in a deceptive or hidden manner. Let me know if you or anyone else happens to find a place that permits amateur filming. For me its the best kind of home movies from a vacation. Again thank you for your reply.

In the Sharks FKK Thread some folks are predicting that business will be poor due to the Hesse auto show during early / mid September.

May anyone confirm this is the case? Why would that be?

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2360359]In Austria, Wellcum seem to be number 1, many girls, some really beautiful natural tits, but lack of pretty faces and elegance for me. Prettiest for me is Georgia ex Ina Acapulco Velbert. De. Seem some girls left GT Vienna because of falling business.

For many girls in Germany, Sharks is number 1. I was told on some Fridays, 200/250 girls, too many for me, but I didn't find only 1 attractive to make me feel: I want her, when I really find this feeling. Also Oase, or Samya for many girls. For fresh girls, Samya, Acapulco Velbert or Gold.

For higher level for looks and love in bed, Globe close to Zurich and Freubad north Bern is not bad, for 269 CHF = 245 , for entry with free foods and drinks and 1 hour in room on Swiss level, even I hate Swiss robbers administration.

For me, on average, Germany is less expensive and higher level than Austria. Switzerland is higher level and sometimes not much more expensive. Full 30 GFE mn can be for 80/90 in Switzerland with shower together after, 130 at Globe, 260 at Aphrodisia.

My subjective tastes of course. I m only interested by beauties and love in bed, not by trash PSE nor dolls in plastic.[/QUOTE]Are you saying the girls are Sharks we're too robotic or not romantic?

That's super disappointing if true and if it the case I might take a trips towards Vienna or Zurich. Which would you recommend?

[QUOTE=DenHaag;2360569]More a New England Patriots man myself![/QUOTE]Not a fan of them but Kraft and Snyder are great friends however Kraft appears to be a monger (Americans refer to themselves as mongers or hobbyists) but at least he plays our game of buying pussy! Kudos to him.

And they do have a good punter! And kicker for that matter; great team.

Steve9696. Always fun to hear from one of the most experienced, entertaining, and helpful posters on ISG. I often make confusion due to language difficulties.

My worst was when due to my poor German pronunciation I told a favourite of mine on departure that I couldn't stand her, and opposed to I would see her again.

Another time I was with a good English speaker, and the condom disappeared inside her, and in response to her question if I was healthy I said "I think so": cue ballistic reaction, and a long explanation that this was an English phrase meaning "yes" expressed in a typical English understatement.

Another time speaking English I told a girl another girl was "spectacular", in the sense of making a spectacle (a show) It took me days to get the girl to understand this, and that I was not saying the other girl was a better.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2360015]Information everybody should know: Christmas / Sylvester, Orthodox Easter and August are not best casting times, because girls who have a very hard job, are happy to return to their roots, family, or to go on holidays like me.[/QUOTE]I was pleasantly surprised during my August trip this year. Yes, I posted about some bad experiences but I also had good ones that I will write about soon. I found some real gems there even though it is not the best time of the year for this! Imagine what I could find during a "good month". Sirioja, what is the best month of the year to visit the FKK's in your opinion? I've read that January and February are good months because the girls want to make money before going on holiday.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2360577]A few funny incidents this past year due to not speaking the same native language.[/QUOTE]Nice post Steve.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2360763]Another time I was with a good English speaker, and the condom disappeared inside her, and in response to her question if I was healthy I said "I think so": cue ballistic reaction, and a long explanation that this was an English phrase meaning "yes" expressed in a typical English understatement.

Another time speaking English I told a girl another girl was "spectacular", in the sense of making a spectacle (a show) It took me days to get the girl to understand this, and that I was not saying the other girl was a better.[/QUOTE]Even when English is the first language of both speakers, there can be miscues. One time, I told a girlfriend that there were only two times that I ever thought about her. Night and day. Her response? Well that's not very nice! I said babe think. Think! Night and day. That's all the time! LOLOLOL!

[QUOTE=GuyBrusg1957;2360674]Are you saying the girls are Sharks we're too robotic or not romantic?

That's super disappointing if true and if it the case I might take a trips towards Vienna or Zurich. Which would you recommend?[/QUOTE]For my subjective eyes, many girls at Sharks, but real lack of beauties since years. Also many girls at Wellcum, but lack of pretty faces. Globe casting seem to improve at the moment, my next visit in FKK.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2360908]For my subjective eyes, many girls at Sharks, but real lack of beauties since years. Also many girls at Wellcum, but lack of pretty faces. Globe casting seem to improve at the moment, my next visit in FKK.[/QUOTE]The location of Wellcum is so hard to get to unless I'm driving for hours.

When are you going to Globe?

[QUOTE=TheCane;2360857]Even when English is the first language of both speakers, there can be miscues. One time, I told a girlfriend that there were only two times that I ever thought about her. Night and day. Her response? Well that's not very nice! I said babe think. Think! Night and day. That's all the time! LOLOLOL![/QUOTE]I love you too much! (Wanted to mean "I love you so much!") LOL.

[QUOTE=GuyBrusg1957;2360674]Are you saying the girls are Sharks we're too robotic or not romantic?

That's super disappointing if true and if it the case I might take a trips towards Vienna or Zurich. Which would you recommend?[/QUOTE]I am quite often busy in Vienna so visit GT, the LU is great a lot of girls may like Shark from 2012 to 2015, mostly from Romania but for me difficult to find a right one, they really behave like cheap prostitutes, sitting bored in the entry on the sofas, eating KFC or MC without having a small look to the customers, the food is good, saunas are great, staff is very friendly, premises need some redecoration but the club is overpriced with 90 euros entry fee.

[QUOTE=Ludacris775;2360771]I was pleasantly surprised during my August trip this year. Yes, I posted about some bad experiences but I also had good ones that I will write about soon. I found some real gems there even though it is not the best time of the year for this! Imagine what I could find during a "good month". Sirioja, what is the best month of the year to visit the FKK's in your opinion? I've read that January and February are good months because the girls want to make money before going on holiday.[/QUOTE]November to mid December because they want money for Christmas and May to mid July because they want money for holidays. Christmas / Sylvester, Orthodox Easter and August are usually the lowest casting times. Holidays for many girls.

[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2361032]I am quite often busy in Vienna so visit GT, the LU is great a lot of girls may like Shark from 2012 to 2015, mostly from Romania but for me difficult to find a right one, they really behave like cheap prostitutes, sitting bored in the entry on the sofas, eating KFC or MC without having a small look to the customers, the food is good, saunas are great, staff is very friendly, premises need some redecoration but the club is overpriced with 90 euros entry fee.[/QUOTE]Wellcum is also nothing exceptional for casting on Summers 2018 and worst on 2019, lack of pretty faces even very beautiful natural tits. But superb Carinthian mountains we can watch in the garden. Wellcum was great for me on August 2017.

I finally completed my first German FKK tour.

I will post a full report later.

In short.

Day 1 . Palace: 4 girls. 👎. $100; $100; $50 ; $100.

Day 2. Mainhattan: 3 girls. 👍 $50; $100; $50.

Day 3. Sharks. : 3 girls. 👍128077; $50 ;$50 ;$50.

And a shout out to kosher cowboy for all the advice patience and words of wisdom.

Sounds like a great trip.

[QUOTE=BrownFish1234;2361327]I finally completed my first German FKK tour.

I will post a full report later.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2361249]Wellcum is also nothing exceptional for casting on Summers 2018 and worst on 2019, lack of pretty faces even very beautiful natural tits. But superb Carinthian mountains we can watch in the garden. Wellcum was great for me on August 2017.[/QUOTE]More girls than ever at Wellcum. But averages are slightly less beautiful. One theory is that the girls who came from Marina watered down the average. Either way, when I look at the names in the total lineup (including girls on vacation), pretty much all the girls are still there from last August at least. But recruitment the last year hasn't yielded too many new hot picks. Then again, it seems they have lots of girls now the past month since I was there that I haven't seen also.

[QUOTE=BrownFish1234;2361327]I finally completed my first German FKK tour.

I will post a full report later.[/QUOTE]Congrats, Can't wait to read. Planning a winter "cruise" myself to all those places.

Wellcum is still easily the club with the most 8's and 9's for me. But more expensive than the German clubs unfortunately.

I have made 3 Germany trips in the last 18 month, usually ending up at Sakura near Stuttgart. Kind of in a rut, have good times there but am want to do something different. I am looking into flying into Dusseldorf or Frankfurt and making Dortmund my base of operations for 3 or 4 day trip. I will have a car and like driving the Autobahn so an hour or 2 to a club is OK. I am thing of going to the smaller clubs this time, looking at Park Residendz, Sky in Wuppertal (love me some Latina in Germany), and Luder Lounge. I am strange, I prefer 35-40 yo MILFs over the 20 something girls. Based on this, are there clubs you guys can recommend? I am the ugly American, so I only speak English.

My trip would be in the first part of November, I know the weather will be crappy, but what of the odds that it would snow? Really do not want to drive in snow.

I find Germany a wonderful country for my solo travels, the legalized prostitution just makes it better. Really enjoying see the sights during the days and the clubs at night.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2360553]Indeed you should! For me, the currency rate is terrible compared to 5-6 years ago. What used to cost me 100 e, now cost 140 e etc.

But you Americans got to hurry, because fed is worried Trump may even dump their entire independence system. And he just demanded a 1% interest rate dump within a short time frame. That is 100 basis points. So that should also dump the dollar compared to the euro. Don't ask me by how much, because lately guessing these currency rates has just turned impossible. But 10% down for the dollar at least I would suspect. Possibly even 15% down unless the esb follows up shortly.[/QUOTE]Hmm I wonder what your home currency is. I thought perhaps you were a Scandinavian but SeK and NOK didn't lose 40% vs Euro in 5 years. Not prying into your origins mind you. 40% is a steep correction. I can understand if you cut your FKK consumption by some amount in reaction to this.

As you said, forecasting currency directions is very tough indeed but I am skeptical that we will crash badly against the Euro. Germany has negative yield in almost all parts of their curve, even managed to sell some amount of 30 year zero coupon bonds. Euro land economies are in worse shape than ours. When world goes into a recession, dollar typically appreciates against most (except JPY and a few others). In any case, right now is a good time to be a dollar based consumer in Euro countries.

[QUOTE=BrownFish1234;2361327]I finally completed my first German FKK tour.

I will post a full report later.

In short.

Day 1 . Palace: 4 girls. 👎. $100; $100; $50 ; $100.

Day 2. Mainhattan: 3 girls. 👍 $50; $100; $50.

Day 3. Sharks. : 3 girls. 👍128077; $50 ;$50 ;$50.

And a shout out to kosher cowboy for all the advice patience and words of wisdom.[/QUOTE]Which of those 3 had the hottest girls as I was in Oase last weekend need a change.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2361371]Wellcum is still easily the club with the most 8's and 9's for me. But more expensive than the German clubs unfortunately.[/QUOTE]How many girls did they average at night and where are most of there girls from. I want to check it out soon but was just reading on here that the girls were not pretty.

There has been a huge influx of new posters asking for information. I would like to provide a useful replies but this is hard unless we know exactly what each of the questioners like and does not like.

Beeoch. I am unsure why you chose Dortmund as your base. This is really a pretty awful location for access to FKKs, unless you know you like Luder Lounge, in which case, good decision. If going further afield bear in mind the sometimes totally jammed traffic east west on the Ruhr autobahns for much of the day. PSR is up to two hours away. But it sounds to me like you know what you are doing, although Sky certainly wouldn't appeal to me (large ladies)

And a plea to those seeking advice. Please report on your firsthand experiences after your visit.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2361074]November to mid December because they want money for Christmas and May to mid July because they want money for holidays. Christmas / Sylvester, Orthodox Easter and August are usually the lowest casting times. Holidays for many girls.[/QUOTE]What I learned after so many years of mongering in FKK and having some fun with girls in their home town in Romanian, most of the girls are trying to make their full year earning from February to end of June, obviously with a break for Orthodox Easter, their year will be good if they have enough money to live until January all the rest is bonus. Not all the girls like the big fairs taking place in the second semester.

[QUOTE=BrownFish1234;2361327]I finally completed my first German FKK tour.

I will post a full report later.

In short.

Day 1 . Palace: 4 girls. 👎. $100; $100; $50 ; $100.

Day 2. Mainhattan: 3 girls. 👍 $50; $100; $50.

Day 3. Sharks. : 3 girls. 👍128077; $50 ;$50 ;$50.

[/QUOTE]Hi. I look forward to your report. It is really unusual (and helpful) to get detailed information on services / prices.

Cheers.

Pistons. I am suffering a similar currency depreciation to you. It does make me a bit hesitant in going for longer sessions and I look for Happy Hour entries. But I reckon I am still spending 90% of the Euros that I was three years ago. Nothing gets in the way of the important things in life LOL.

For European investors, it's now better to buy US treasuries, hedge their currency exposure, and short German bunds. The return is now +0. 30% or so. Much better than the zero interest cash earns in Germany or the negative -0.6% 10 year bunds earn.

I go on my trip in a month, and hope the exchange rate drops to 1.07 or even 1.05. A Yankee monger can wish.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2361435]Hmm I wonder what your home currency is. I thought perhaps you were a Scandinavian but SeK and NOK didn't lose 40% vs Euro in 5 years. Not prying into your origins mind you. 40% is a steep correction. I can understand if you cut your FKK consumption by some amount in reaction to this.

As you said, forecasting currency directions is very tough indeed but I am skeptical that we will crash badly against the Euro. Germany has negative yield in almost all parts of their curve, even managed to sell some amount of 30 year zero coupon bonds. Euro land economies are in worse shape than ours. When world goes into a recession, dollar typically appreciates against most (except JPY and a few others). In any case, right now is a good time to be a dollar based consumer in Euro countries.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Jkkk8;2361484]How many girls did they average at night and where are most of there girls from. I want to check it out soon but was just reading on here that the girls were not pretty.[/QUOTE]Before this summer they had a cap at 105 girls. What I heard was that they now has increased it to 140 girls. But in the past that meant maybe 65-90 girls depending on weekday and season. Now it is more like 90-115. Due to less competition from Marina being gone I suppose. 90% Romanian. There is one Russian and one Hungarian. Plus about 5 Bulgarians in average. Rest Romanian.

[QUOTE=Jkkk8;2361484]How many girls did they average at night and where are most of there girls from. I want to check it out soon but was just reading on here that the girls were not pretty.[/QUOTE]They have both a website with pictures of the girls, and a Telegram channel where the manager posts tons of extra pictures and even videos of the girls which goes on repeat on the TV's in the club. No need to read any members take on beauty levels. Too bad really that no German club has understood pr the way Wellcum has. But I guess there is different laws also.

[QUOTE=StressedOutSea;2361722]For European investors, it's now better to buy US treasuries, hedge their currency exposure, and short German bunds. The return is now +0. 30% or so. Much better than the zero interest cash earns in Germany or the negative -0.6% 10 year bunds earn.

I go on my trip in a month, and hope the exchange rate drops to 1.07 or even 1.05. A Yankee monger can wish.[/QUOTE]Sounds good. Except I wouldn't short the German bonds. It can go quite a bit lower before it rebounds.

[QUOTE=StressedOutSea;2361722]For European investors, it's now better to buy US treasuries, hedge their currency exposure, and short German bunds. The return is now +0. 30% or so. Much better than the zero interest cash earns in Germany or the negative -0.6% 10 year bunds earn.

I go on my trip in a month, and hope the exchange rate drops to 1.07 or even 1.05. A Yankee monger can wish.[/QUOTE]Basically there are no reverse on the global economic downturn on the horizon before we get commercialized 3 d integrated circuitry, predominantly based on carbon nanotubes. And that is still at least 3 years away at the earliest. And probably a year or two later before it kick starts any new innovation wave. Before then, a new financial crisis. And fascist China needs to be calmed down too. So there are two solid medium term reasons for the German bonds not to go anywhere up again any time soon. Not before new year at least.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2361719]Pistons. I am suffering a similar currency depreciation to you. It does make me a bit hesitant in going for longer sessions and I look for Happy Hour entries. But I reckon I am still spending 90% of the Euros that I was three years ago. Nothing gets in the way of the important things in life LOL.[/QUOTE]Finally you'll end in Acapulco.

[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2362039]Finally you'll end in Acapulco.[/QUOTE]My country may go to hell in a handcart but I'll be happy, although maybe in Acapulco Gold LOL.

Day 1: Palace.

I flew in from Houston to Frankfurt on Aug. 14.9 HR flight. Arrived at 9 am on Aug. 15. Made my way down to terminal 1 under the airport and bought a ticket to the main station from the vending machines E4. 90 . Line s8 . Short 10 min ride later I was at the main station, walked out and went to hotel Columbus round the corner. 2 nights. E120 . Decent accommodation. Took a nap and finally got out at around 4 pm.

I had already decided that I would try the nearest FKK first which happened to be palace. 15 min cab ride and E 16 later I was there. Paid the entry fee, got my robe and got in. Two lockers system. Took a shower, put my stuff in the locker and ventured in.

Smallish sized club, pretty dark. About 20 girls maybe, same number of guys. Decent quality, not bad. My strategy is to scope out the club for a couple of hrs and get into the action. As soon as I got in I was was hounded by ladies everywhere. I'm used to that, I ignored everybody and found a spot to sit and watch. I loved the fact that almost all of them were butt naked. Underwear doesn't work for me. I quickly chatted up with a few guys in there, 2 French guys. A Canadian and a Pakistani. Exchanged notes about who to avoid and who to see. Food was decent, no complaints. Not a picky eater.

After about 2 hrs I got into the game. Blonde German girl with big boobs and tats, recommended by one of my new friends. E50 for normal sex and covered BJ. E100 for GFE: BBJ DFK and sex. I paid the E 100 . It was okay. Not that good.

Next was an Italian. Black hair not that pretty but big naturals. She was hounding me since I came in and was telling me how she would lick my balls. E100 . Again a decent experience. Nothing major. BBJ was decent. Little ball licking. Lots of oohs and uhhs. Couple of positions. Little DATY. Little DFK.

Now I'm thinking maybe I'll try the E50 ones.

Took a break for couple of hrs. Tried the food and the drinks. Relaxed at the chairs in the back. Then I saw this stunning looking Serbian with flowing shiny long black hair, small firm boobs with eraser nipples. She was just walking around and wasn't going up to anybody. I went to her and said let's go. E50 this time and she was actually better than the last two. Basic session. CBJ and sex.

Now it's past midnight, I'm trying to decide if I should call it a night or try one more. The number of girls in the club never really went beyond 20-25 , same with guys.

I met this crazy skinny Philippino chick who just got on me and started giving me tongue right away, I got more tongue from her for free than all the paid ones combined. Not into oriental girls. Not my thing. She was very persistent. Took about good 15 min to get rid of her. Funny thing is, I ran into her again 3 days later at sharks.

At the insistence of my new friends I decided to try this Spanish girl. E100 . Again decent experience nothing major. BBJ DATY. Little DFK couple of positions. It was 1 am. Time to go.

Took a shower. Caught a cab outside. E13 and I'm in my room. End of day 1.

Now that my tour is over, considering the other options out there, I don't see any reason why anybody should visit palace, unless they are short on time or just bored with the other clubs.

Palace gets a thumbs down from me.

[QUOTE=StressedOutSea;2361722]For European investors, it's now better to buy US treasuries, hedge their currency exposure, and short German bunds. The return is now +0. 30% or so. Much better than the zero interest cash earns in Germany or the negative -0.6% 10 year bunds earn.

I go on my trip in a month, and hope the exchange rate drops to 1.07 or even 1.05. A Yankee monger can wish.[/QUOTE]Sorry but the difference will be very minimum, I spent 10 years in the US and I will never understand why you guys are travelling so far to Germany just for pussy, so many pussy also in the US or south america without any jet lag.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2361368]More girls than ever at Wellcum. But averages are slightly less beautiful. One theory is that the girls who came from Marina watered down the average. Either way, when I look at the names in the total lineup (including girls on vacation), pretty much all the girls are still there from last August at least. But recruitment the last year hasn't yielded too many new hot picks. Then again, it seems they have lots of girls now the past month since I was there that I haven't seen also.[/QUOTE]On August 2018 , Marina Slovenia had better casting for me than Wellcum, on August 2016 and again on 2019, Andiamo was better for me than Wellcum, 3 attractive girls for me at Andiamo on Sunday just after Ferragosto party, most famous day at Wellcum but I didn t find any attractive girl, 0 room from noon to 3 am. Angi and Darla are less attractive than before. I only found Lena. Ro on August 2017 really exceptional, I missed Mila Marina on this August. When I will return in Dolomiti for my finals in Mortirolo and Zoncolan and training in Gentile di Mione 28% , so extreme, I will need to train my body to get used to such violent effort and pain, I will see if she works. If she works, I will see if she remembers our room, because my only attraction at Wellcum which even a beautiful club with beautiful Carinthian mountains, but can t compete with Germany for girls level, and more expensive rate. Don t worth the trip and rate 70/30 for my experience. Only 1 girl when tried about 10 on 4 Summer which is best time at Wellcum, really did worth, even Angi but not as Barbi now, or Natali. Hu, were also enjoyable but not higher than in Germany. On the other hand, I met at GT. De 2 ex long time working at GT Vienna and enjoyable girls for 50 per 30 mn. 1 was my most ever playful in lounge, I never played like this in lounge with any other girl.

I have been to many FKK clubs, and two of my favorites are Artemis and Golden Time Vienna. Does anyone know of other FKK clubs where the women have no clothes on? Or where most of the girls walk around entirely naked? Thanks in advance.

[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2362739]Sorry but the difference will be very minimum, I spent 10 years in the US and I will never understand why you guys are travelling so far to Germany just for pussy, so many pussy also in the US or south america without any jet lag.[/QUOTE]You've spent 10 years in US, and you don't understand why US mongers travel to Germany? Next time you're in the US. See if you can find a place where you can choose from 40-60 girls to screw, and without any fear of police stings or scams, any of the other nonsense. US is by far one of the worst places in the world for mongering.

And just an FYI. A flight from NYC to South America is longer and more expensive than a flight to Europe. S. America is not exactly "next door".

I think you mistake is going with 100 E sessions. Unless you're the kind of guy who needs all this extra time to pop. I find 30 m /60 E a lot better way to spend time and money in places like this.

[QUOTE=BrownFish1234;2362724]Now that my tour is over, considering the other options out there, I don't see any reason why anybody should visit palace, unless they are short on time or just bored with the other clubs.

Palace gets a thumbs down from me.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2362739]Sorry but the difference will be very minimum, I spent 10 years in the US and I will never understand why you guys are travelling so far to Germany just for pussy, so many pussy also in the US or south america without any jet lag.[/QUOTE]Guilty as charged. Do you have recommendations for local sources?

[QUOTE=BrownFish1234;2362724]Day 1: Palace.

I flew in from Houston to Frankfurt on Aug. 14.9 HR flight. Arrived at 9 am on Aug. 15.

Palace gets a thumbs down from me.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the report BrownFish1234 which is now referenced in the Reports of Distinction Section. Next time, if you can, report in the appropriate thread. Nevertheless well done!

It was a pleasure to read your really useful honest first hand report. I can see you are very experienced, even if new to Germany. Thanks. Your report has removed any lingering temptation for me to try Palace again.

When you do your subsequent reports, any chance if including girls' name?

Thanks again for taking one for the team.

[QUOTE=GTBoy1976;2362853]I have been to many FKK clubs, and two of my favorites are Artemis and Golden Time Vienna. Does anyone know of other FKK clubs where the women have no clothes on? Or where most of the girls walk around entirely naked? Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]Around Frankfurt, not around Dusseldorf. Also Babylon around Koln. At Sharks or Oase, you will see towels or bra.

[QUOTE=BrownFish1234;2362724]Day 1: Palace.

I flew in from Houston to Frankfurt on Aug. 14.9 HR flight. Arrived at 9 am on Aug. 15. Made my way down to terminal 1 under the airport and bought a ticket to the main station from the vending machines E4. 90 . Line s8 . Short 10 min ride later I was at the main station, walked out and went to hotel Columbus round the corner. 2 nights. E120 . Decent accommodation. Took a nap and finally got out at around 4 pm.

I had already decided that I would try the nearest FKK first which happened to be palace. 15 min cab ride and E 16 later I was there. Paid the entry fee, got my robe and got in. Two lockers system. Took a shower, put my stuff in the locker and ventured in.

Smallish sized club, pretty dark. About 20 girls maybe, same number of guys. Decent quality, not bad. My strategy is to scope out the club for a couple of hrs and get into the action. As soon as I got in I was was hounded by ladies everywhere. I'm used to that, I ignored everybody and found a spot to sit and watch. I loved the fact that almost all of them were butt naked. Underwear doesn't work for me. I quickly chatted up with a few guys in there, 2 French guys. A Canadian and a Pakistani. Exchanged notes about who to avoid and who to see. Food was decent, no complaints. Not a picky eater.[/QUOTE]I visit whole FKK land with NL, Switzerland and Austria, and Palace is one of the highest level club for me, the highest around Frankfurt, and among the 3 most interesting for beauties in Germany. Each one own subjective experience which should be from what we are. Best days are Friday and Saturday evening, everybody who know a bit about the club, know this. May be interesting during IAA. Entry 50 before 5 pm. Good foods and sometimes different beauties, like my Venezuelan looking like Russian and real Siberian fire in bed. So lovely after room, proposing me to drink their vodka with her and her friend, but I m not Russian, I prefer milk or cyprine.

Day 2: Mainhattan.

My second day in Germany. August 16 Friday. I slept during the day, grabbed lunch at a restaurant next door and left my hotel room and grabbed a taxi. About 15 minutes and E20 later I was at Mainhattan at 5 pm.

I paid the E65 entrance fee and robed up and decided to check out the club first. I loved the open layout. The indoor and the outdoor area. Grabbed a coke and sat down in front of a TV while scoping out the girls. As usual my strategy was to take my time and get a feel of the club before jumping into action. Quite a few girls came and rubbed on me, I stayed firm on my strategy. Quite a few stunners out there. This blonde Romanian with a prefect 10 model looks and body kept coming back over and over again. At 6 pm I said fuck it and let's go.

She explained. E50 for basic sex and BJ. E 100 for anything extra. I opted for 50 . Nothing special about the session. Good enough CBJ, little bit of playing with her boobs, hint of kissing and the missionary to top it off. I'm okay with it.

The number of girls throughout the day seemed to hover around 30 , same with guys. Another Romanian girl caught my attention, medium natural boobs, black hair, big butt, a little thick. I gave it an HR and went in with her. E100 . This session was much closer to an actual GFE session. I started with sucking on her boobs, while I put a finger in. Then I asked her to lie down while I dove in for dinner downstairs. She happily obliged. After about 7-8 minutes she asked me to switch. Wiped me down with a baby wipe and went to town on my junior. Pretty good. I decided to move to the main course. Put a rubber in and got on top. DFK. Pump DFK pump. Switched positions. Cowgirl, Asian cowgirl. Grab boobs, DFK pump. Pop. She cleaned me up. And we cuddled for a bit. Started to get dressed. I gave her a massage, rubbed her back and neck, she became jelly. Times up.

Finally a session that I really liked. Things are looking up. Still it's not quite up to the level of a full on GFE but much better than the day before.

I've never tried a sauna before. So decided to give it a swing. 30 minutes should do it. I put some water in the coal and sat down.

5 minutes: I'm feeling good.

10 minutes it's getting hot. Sweating profusely. I love it.

15 minutes: each inch of my body is drenched in sweat. I'm struggling.

20 minutes: if I don't get out now, I might not make it out of the sauna.

It took me about 30 more minutes to get normal. Jumped in to the jacuzzi. Then got a massage. Then chilled by the pool outside. Can't get any better than this.

It's around 10 pm. Time for dinner. Salmon, chicken, potato and fruits. I'm happy. Relaxed outside on the chairs for a bit while I digested the food. Did not notice much of a difference in the number of girls. Same with guys. Mixed bag. Variety of nationalities, chatted with a couple of them. Repeated the sauna. Only for 5 minutes this time. Then jacuzzi. Almost midnight, time to zero in on the last girl of the day. Another Romanian. E50 started with a BBJ, moved to CBJ, slight DFK, missionary, the end. Quick shower, cab ride and I'm in my hotel room at 1:30.

An all Romanian outing for me on Mainhattan. Much better experience than palace. The layout of the club was much better and the ambience was much relaxed overall. Mainhattan gets a thumbs up from me.

Side note: I saw 10 girls total in my FKK trip spread over 5 days. Even though I remember the nationalities of the girls, I don't remember any of their corresponding names.

[QUOTE=BrownFish1234;2362724]Day 1: Palace.

Now that my tour is over, considering the other options out there, I don't see any reason why anybody should visit palace, unless they are short on time or just bored with the other clubs.

Palace gets a thumbs down from me.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the warning. Great post. Looking forward to the other reports!

[QUOTE=BrownFish1234;2362724]Day 1: Palace.

I flew in from Houston to Frankfurt on Aug. 14.9 HR flight. Arrived at 9 am on Aug. 15. Made my way down to terminal 1 under the airport and bought a ticket to the main station from the vending machines E4. 90 . Line s8 . Short 10 min ride later I was at the main station, walked out and went to hotel Columbus round the corner. 2 nights. E120 . Decent accommodation. Took a nap and finally got out at around 4 pm.

I had already decided that I would try the nearest FKK first which happened to be palace. 15 min cab ride and E 16 later I was there. Paid the entry fee, got my robe and got in. Two lockers system. Took a shower, put my stuff in the locker and ventured in.

Smallish sized club, pretty dark. About 20 girls maybe, same number of guys. Decent quality, not bad. My strategy is to scope out the club for a couple of hrs and get into the action. As soon as I got in I was was hounded by ladies everywhere. I'm used to that, I ignored everybody and found a spot to sit and watch. I loved the fact that almost all of them were butt naked. Underwear doesn't work for me. I quickly chatted up with a few guys in there, 2 French guys. A Canadian and a Pakistani. Exchanged notes about who to avoid and who to see. Food was decent, no complaints. Not a picky eater.

After about 2 hrs I got into the game. Blonde German girl with big boobs and tats, recommended by one of my new friends. E50 for normal sex and covered BJ. E100 for GFE: BBJ DFK and sex. I paid the E 100 . It was okay. Not that good..[/QUOTE]You just confirm what I wrote so many times, just forget Palace.

[QUOTE=GTBoy1976;2362853]I have been to many FKK clubs, and two of my favorites are Artemis and Golden Time Vienna. Does anyone know of other FKK clubs where the women have no clothes on? Or where most of the girls walk around entirely naked? Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]I was particularly happy with Coliseum in Augsburg. Not a super large club, but after a dozen women my eyeballs hurt anyway. If they are having sex on the bed in the "kino" room you can also be a voyeur while sitting watching the films.

Day 3: Sharks.

After spending two days in Palace and Mainhattan, I took a break for a couple of days. I took a train to Paris for sightseeing for a couple of days. Came back to Frankfurt main station on Monday August 19 around 4 pm. I was still undecided on which club to visit next. I was scheduled to fly out of Frankfurt the next day in the afternoon. So I could only visit one club. The options were Oase and sharks, and both were outside Frankfurt. I decided on sharks and planned out my trip.

I went to platform 23 at the central station and put my bags in a storage locker. E5 . The took a train on line s3 to Darmstadt. E8. 60 . It was a 40 min ride. From the Darmstadt station I took a cab to sharks. About 10 minutes and E 12 later I was there.

I got in at 6 pm. E65 for the entrance. Quick shower and I'm in. This club is much bigger than the two other clubs I visited. There was construction going on by the bar area inside, even then it was significantly bigger. About 30 girls maybe overall. I was starving. I grabbed some food and adopted my usual strategy of scoping out the joint for a couple of hrs before diving in. I chilled by the pool and saw at least ten girls that I would like fuck their brains out. I also ran into the crazy Philippina chick that I saw in palace. This time I stayed clear of her.

Around 7 pm I focused my attention on this think blonde girl. We locked eyes and she came over. Romanian. E50 . I asked what's included. She said: 30 minutes one round normal sex kissing and BJ. Anal and CIM would be extra. I asked CBJ or BBJ. She said BBJ. Off we go. We went inside one of the outdoor rooms by the pool and she started with a fantastic BBJ right away and I knew I wasn't going to last. I told her: never mind fucking, just finish me off with the BBJ, she obliged. I had to swiftly pull out just before I was about to squirt. Quick cleanup and back on the lounge chair by the pool.

I realized very quickly that my stamina is running out and I have maybe one or 2 more rounds in me and I have to choose wisely. And clearly this was the best club of all the three that I have visited in terms of money girls and the club ambience and outlay. I should have visited this on day one. But hey, you live and learn.

Dint take too long for my junior to start poking again with all the butt naked girls walking around. This Columbia's girl with big jugs came over. We started talking. At first I wasn't interested. But she talked me into it. Her words.

" we don't have to start fucking right away, we can kiss, massage, lick, suck and then slowly start fucking, if the girl is good then doesn't matter how tired or low on stamina, you will get up and get going ".

With cheeky lines like these and a horny fucker like me, it worked like a charm, my junior said let's goooo. E50 .

Started with licking and sucking on her nipples. Then went down for DATY. Excellent reactions. More and more DATY. Pulled me up for some light DFK. Switched positions. Time for some BBJ. Paid attention to the balls too. Wrapped up and got on top. Grabbed those knockers and went to town. Switched again and she got on top. After a few minutes of drinking and sucking on her massive mammaries I popped. She cleaned me up. I tipped her E20 extra.

It was getting dark and a little chilly outside so I went inside and went upstairs and chilled for a few. I noticed this old grandma looking lady with big mms and a fake butt walking all around. I'm not the type of a guy to judge anybody, god knows I've fucked some nasty bitches when I've had the urge before. But in a paradise like this where there are 9's and 10's floating around everywhere there's something wrong with you if you go with grandma. Turns out she is Italian and came upto me multiple times and I turned her down very politely each and every time.

I had dinner. No complaints and was scoping out the joint from upstairs. It was past 10 on and I have to quickly make up my mind and figure out my course of action. Majority of the girls were sitting downstairs. Very few of them made the effort to climb upstairs with the heels on. Too much effort I guess. Then this goddess looking Czech girl came up and started chatting. I desperately wanted to fuck her brains and eat her pussy, but I wasn't sure I could pull it off, my tank was at E. With the last bit of energy that I had left I said: let's go. E 50. BBJ only. She actually looked disappointed.

We got inside the room and grabbed her boobs and licked on her nipples. She started with a fantastic round of BBJ with all with ball licking eye contact and everything. Needless to say I shot my batter within a few minutes. I couldn't move her head out of the way in time. Half of it went inside her mouth half of it went on the bed. At first she seemed a little disturbed but thankfully she didn't make big deal of it. Quick shower and I'm out of there.

Clearly I made a mistake in choosing the order of the clubs. But as a newbie in Germany I adopted a strategy which was safe for me. I started with the clubs that was close to me and then ventured out. I have no regrets. My 5 days in Europe got progressively better day by day.

I took a cab to the Darmstadt station for E 10. The next train was at 12:35 am and I got there at 12:10 am. The station was completely empty barring one fishy looking guy sitting down and smoking. This scene was totally out of the movies, where the strange lonely foreigner gets robbed by a gang of vicious thugs at midnight in an empty train station. Luckily nothing like that happened, that guy was probably scared more of me than I of him. Train was on time. 40 min ride to central station. E8. 6.

Got my luggage out. Another short train ride and E 4.95 later I was at the airport waiting for my flight in a few hrs.

Thank you Europe.

On a side note. The 7 or 8 times that I have used the train, my tickets have been checked each and every single time. Even after midnight. So don't skip on the tickets.

And finally a shout out to Kosher Kowboy for the patient words of wisdom and all the useful advice.

Cheers.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2363081]I visit whole FKK land with NL, Switzerland and Austria, and Palace is one of the highest level club for me, the highest around Frankfurt, and among the 3 most interesting for beauties in Germany. Each one own subjective experience which should be from what we are.[/QUOTE]Palace is also one of my favorite clubs with many, many good memories. In the Frankfurt area, I like only Oase better. I do not care for Sharks (just doesn't work for me), and I hate Mainhattan! World used to be a really rocking club man that could compete with the best of them! What in the world happened to World? It just doesn't have that "buzz" anymore. If you know what I mean.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2363238]Palace is also one of my favorite clubs with many, many good memories. In the Frankfurt area, I like only Oase better. I do not care for Sharks (just doesn't work for me), and I hate Mainhattan! World used to be a really rocking club man that could compete with the best of them! What in the world happened to World? It just doesn't have that "buzz" anymore. If you know what I mean.[/QUOTE]For the club, no competition for me, World is far higher in Hessen, the only magic, and they improved rooms, but when I arrive at Palace, this is quiet place for me, good foods, good apple juice, nice staff, beautiful rooms, just have to find a beauty to enjoy. Some different types of girls can sometimes be found at Palace, like at Vanilla, just have to be able to play to get from them, orgasmus usually pay. I just miss past pool.

[QUOTE=BrownFish1234;2363204]Day 3: Sharks.


Clearly I made a mistake in choosing the order of the clubs. But as a newbie in Germany I adopted a strategy which was safe for me. I started with the clubs that was close to me and then ventured out. I have no regrets. My 5 days in Europe got progressively better day by day.

Thank you Europe.

On a side note. The 7 or 8 times that I have used the train, my tickets have been checked each and every single time. Even after midnight. So don't skip on the tickets.

And finally a shout out to Kosher Kowboy for the patient words of wisdom and all the useful advice.

Cheers.[/QUOTE]Thanks for taking the time to write up all the info, especially the transport. Good reports and obviously, the smile on your face should last for a few weeks.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2363238]Palace is also one of my favorite clubs with many, many good memories. In the Frankfurt area, I like only Oase better. I do not care for Sharks (just doesn't work for me), and I hate Mainhattan! World used to be a really rocking club man that could compete with the best of them! What in the world happened to World? It just doesn't have that "buzz" anymore. If you know what I mean.[/QUOTE]As for clubs, I kinda agree with everything here in relation to getting in the right mood. Sharks feels more like a club to hang out in, where girls are of 2nd hand interest sometimes. And watching sports or taking sauna or relaxing at the pool, or talking to other people gets more attention than in any other club. That is not to say Sharks cannot have some of my favourite girls. It is just that the club itself doesn't have that feeling to it. If girls are the only thing you go there for. Sure Oase has its sports thingy too in the garden, but it is a much more erotic place. Palace falls in between I feel.

Hi,

Assuming you will spend one day with a working girl from one of the FKK of the Frankfurt area, how do you suggest to spend the day?

Where would you go? Which type of places? Specific suggestions?

(sex only at night in the hotel).

[QUOTE=Rovereto;2363518]Hi,

Assuming you will spend one day with a working girl from one of the FKK of the Frankfurt area, how do you suggest to spend the day?

Where would you go? Which type of places? Specific suggestions?

(sex only at night in the hotel).[/QUOTE]Most important make sure you have a nice and conviently located hotel. I prefer one with fantastic view over Frankfurt, my favorite is Innside Eurotheum close to Fressgasse (on no Messe weekends maybe for around 100 Euro) or the Jumeirah close to Hauptwache (expansive, never under 200 Euro). Both have fantastic view (rooms around 20th floor) and your girl will love it. Also the room service for in room dinner is excellent. Usually your club girl is a smoking girl or even yourself then reserve a smoking room in any case.

What can you do in Frankfurt? Best advice ask your girl what she want to do. If she isn't new at Oase, Mainhattan, Palace or even Sharks usually she knows already a lot of Frankfurt sights.

So some suggestion. Walk on Fressgasse and drink something at the bar. At nothern end of Fressgasse there are some nice bars with smoking allowed Inside.

If your girl like you can go with her to Zoological Garden or one of the many museums. You can take a boat tour on Main river.

Twice per year is Dippe Messe in Frankfurt, usually the girls love the attractions of this famous Frankfurt Fest.

Make a shopping stroll on Zeil (could be expansive. LOL) therefore my preferred escort day is Sunday. Shops are closed, no traffic jam in Frankfurt and the hotels are much cheaper on weekends without Messe.

Maybe she likes to try some Frankfurt food traditions. Unfortunately once famous old Sachsenhausen is now more a shisha scenery but the Frankfurt apple wine bars are still worth to see and try an apple wine- I also don't like but a try is a must do.

Or what the girls also like is to go to a dance club in Frankfurt in the late evening. At the moment seems Gibson Club is state of the art.

I have usually regular girls for escort, they know Frankfurt already and they know I don't fuck them "kaputt" in hotel room, then the girls prefer quite often to stay at hotel. They prefer in room dining, can smoke all the time. They enjoy the view over Frankfurt and we often watch on pay view a new movie together.


Just ask your girl what she prefers.

[QUOTE=Craiova;2363688]Most important make sure you have a nice and conviently located hotel. I prefer one with fantastic view over Frankfurt, my favorite is Innside Eurotheum close to Fressgasse (on no Messe weekends maybe for around 100 Euro) or the Jumeirah close to Hauptwache (expansive, never under 200 Euro). Both have fantastic view (rooms around 20th floor) and your girl will love it. Also the room service for in room dinner is excellent. Usually your club girl is a smoking girl or even yourself then reserve a smoking room in any case.

What can you do in Frankfurt? Best advice ask your girl what she want to do. If she isn't new at Oase, Mainhattan, Palace or even Sharks usually she knows already a lot of Frankfurt sights.

So some suggestion. Walk on Fressgasse and drink something at the bar. At nothern end of Fressgasse there are some nice bars with smoking allowed Inside.

If your girl like you can go with her to Zoological Garden or one of the many museums. You can take a boat tour on Main river..[/QUOTE]Better you have your car, go together shopping in Wertheim, spend several hours in Titus thermen, and after so many good restaurants in F, no need to spend 200+ in a hotel, I always can find good one for 100.

[QUOTE=Rovereto;2363518]Hi,

Assuming you will spend one day with a working girl from one of the FKK of the Frankfurt area, how do you suggest to spend the day?

Where would you go? Which type of places? Specific suggestions?

(sex only at night in the hotel).[/QUOTE]I had my best 2019 girl at Oase, wow, more glamourous than girls now at Globe, calling me: my love, in front of other girls, but when she proposed me to spend a day and go for shopping, she didn't ask for money, but I preferred to avoid. I m too poor, needing to sleep in my car, but if we met only on 2 times on April, but with 4 great 1 hour rooms. So different in private than on the bar or on lesbi show around pole.

[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2363704]Better you have your car, go together shopping in Wertheim, spend several hours in Titus thermen, and after so many good restaurants in F, no need to spend 200+ in a hotel, I always can find good one for 100.[/QUOTE]Sure you get a 5 star + hotel located direct at Hauptwache with skyline view over Frankfurt from 23th floor for 100 Euro. LOL.

And in Wertheim try to find the book basic knowledge about German FKK clubs. Just read it before posting more useless spam.

Thanks for the advises guys.

I was thinking of rhein main therme and then dinner on the main.

[QUOTE=Craiova;2363904]Sure you get a 5 star + hotel located direct at Hauptwache with skyline view over Frankfurt from 23th floor for 100 Euro. LOL.

And in Wertheim try to find the book basic knowledge about German FKK clubs. Just read it before posting more useless spam.[/QUOTE]And you try to find a book in which you can try to learn to be a bit more polite, for sure you are a pro I just had only 1000+ FKK visits and 100+ escorts with a lot of overnights far from the 50 euro fuckers that are around on this forum.

[QUOTE=Rovereto;2363996]Thanks for the advises guys.

I was thinking of rhein main therme and then dinner on the main.[/QUOTE]Depending on how you get along, and the weather of course, I still find a stroll through Sachenhausen and the Apple Wine bars a treat. It's unusual, allows you to try a couple places and eat lighter foods and also if the conversation is not going well, you are not stuck at a table for several hours staring at each other making polite conversation about the (insert topic here). Trip savvy, yelp, tripadvisor all have lists, make sure when you search you put in Apple Wine, not wine, or you're likely to get a traditional bar!

I also find a walk though the old part of town with the Roman ruins interesting. Again, just depends on how the conversation is going, whether you want to work up an appetite or how far you want to travel. The Spa you mentioned is way to the West of the city.

Or you can go to the RLD and watch a show and get yourself in the mood for a trip back to the hotel.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2363426]Palace falls in between I feel.[/QUOTE]Between Disneyland and Fantasy World.

Is anyone able to comment on working girls in more detail? I don't know if I need to scour the internet with German terms but I am not finding many (in comparison to other places) at least upscale high end escort services that are outcall.

[QUOTE=Craiova;2364558]Between Disneyland and Fantasy World.[/QUOTE]Hehe, so Sharks would be Disneyland, and Oase would be Fantasy World. Yeah, sounds about right.

[QUOTE=GuyBrusg1957;2364737]Is anyone able to comment on working girls in more detail? I don't know if I need to scour the internet with German terms but I am not finding many (in comparison to other places) at least upscale high end escort services that are outcall.[/QUOTE]Are you talking Oasis? Sharks? Disneyland? (Your questions comes after the post by Craiova) Otherwise, you need to look in the specific Forum for the geographic region. When I find any escort I then do a search on her name in this forum and Lusthaus, and then sometimes Gratiszeige. The best girls actually cross post their Lusthaus reviews!-especially when they change names after leaving a specific club. Funny enough, I have the most sympathy for guys who have a v specific type (skinny girls with tiny breasts who do anal. Or girls with DDD boobs who like DATY) cause if you hit my sweet spot, I occasionally share favorites.

I was in my 40's, just two years ago, when I discovered German FKKs clubs. I average 1-2 girls per visit. I can only imagine the rush I would have felt discovering an FKK in my 20's. Would have been walking around with a boner the entire time and probably do 10 rooms. But, considering I was broke, probably would also have also spent my entire college tuition on girls.

Anyone else like me who feels like they were late to the party and has this as a regret?

[QUOTE=JefferyG;2365026]I was in my 40's, just two years ago, when I discovered German FKKs clubs. I average 1-2 girls per visit. I can only imagine the rush I would have felt discovering an FKK in my 20's. Would have been walking around with a boner the entire time and probably do 10 rooms. But, considering I was broke, probably would also have also spent my entire college tuition on girls.

Anyone else like me who feels like they were late to the party and has this as a regret?[/QUOTE]OMG this. I feel like if I had discovered FKK land in my 20's, I may never had taken the marriage detour at all. My whole work career would have been shaped around regular trips to Germany.

[QUOTE=JefferyG;2365026]I was in my 40's, just two years ago, when I discovered German FKKs clubs. I average 1-2 girls per visit. I can only imagine the rush I would have felt discovering an FKK in my 20's. Would have been walking around with a boner the entire time and probably do 10 rooms. But, considering I was broke, probably would also have also spent my entire college tuition on girls.

Anyone else like me who feels like they were late to the party and has this as a regret?[/QUOTE]A better question is, is there an member who doesn't feel the way you do?

(That said, in his 40's a healthy man should be able to do more than one or two girls per day. Of course it depends on how many consecutive days you are attending the clubs. I attend 4 to 6 days per trip on average and perhaps do 15 to 20 rooms per trip. I cannot finish in all my rooms but do mange to do so in more than a majority).

With so many Japanese guys around, I'm curious about how FKKs are portrayed and popularized in Japan. Is there much mention in popular media or only sex forums? What's the tone in the forums? Paradise or beware?

[QUOTE=JefferyG;2365026]I was in my 40's, just two years ago, when I discovered German FKKs clubs. I average 1-2 girls per visit. I can only imagine the rush I would have felt discovering an FKK in my 20's. Would have been walking around with a boner the entire time and probably do 10 rooms. But, considering I was broke, probably would also have also spent my entire college tuition on girls.

Anyone else like me who feels like they were late to the party and has this as a regret?[/QUOTE]Even if you are late to the party which is ISG FKK Threads, it is not too late to bring a bottle or some other useful contribution.

I hope you can recover from your regrets. Best wishes. Regret is not good for mental health :)

[QUOTE=JefferyG;2365026]...Anyone else like me who feels like they were late to the party and has this as a regret?[/QUOTE]I am in a worse case than you, but I don't regret anything. It would not do me much good anyway. I went to my first FKK visit at the young age of 54, and I have had a ball ever since. The key is to live it up, and not worry too much about what I have missed.

[QUOTE=JefferyG;2365026]I was in my 40's, just two years ago, when I discovered German FKKs clubs. I average 1-2 girls per visit. I can only imagine the rush I would have felt discovering an FKK in my 20's. Would have been walking around with a boner the entire time and probably do 10 rooms. But, considering I was broke, probably would also have also spent my entire college tuition on girls.

Anyone else like me who feels like they were late to the party and has this as a regret?[/QUOTE]The quantity and quality of information about the international scene was just not as available 10-20 years ago as it is now. So you might not have found this world, even if you had looked for it.

There are markets that are now open via forums like ISG, WhatsApp, Google Translate, and Uber that were simply not accessible in the past. I realize technology is not as important with respect to the FKK market, but what I said was just a general observation.

I posted because another general observation is that a pet peeve of mine on sex worker / John forums are the self-loving, narcissistic assholes in their 50 and 60's who wake up every morning thinking about their autobiographies and declare that no men in their late teens through late 30's should participate in this activity. These are guys who claim to have had beautiful girlfriends and wives when younger (although I have my doubts), who they presumably divorced when those women became less attractive.

I swear I can never figure them out. They apparently think that a younger guy is less likely to get married if he buys sex, which has never made any sense to me. I suspect they simply prefer to hang out, even if online, with people just like them, and also need ways to feel superior to others.

I wish I had had (or had allocated) more money to this activity when younger, because having more in common with the ladies and being able to perform nonstop is a joy that can never be regained. So if a younger guy reads this, I concur that you should do this as much as you can, if you in fact enjoy it.

[QUOTE=JefferyG;2365026]I was in my 40's, just two years ago, when I discovered German FKKs clubs. I average 1-2 girls per visit. I can only imagine the rush I would have felt discovering an FKK in my 20's. Would have been walking around with a boner the entire time and probably do 10 rooms. But, considering I was broke, probably would also have also spent my entire college tuition on girls.

Anyone else like me who feels like they were late to the party and has this as a regret?[/QUOTE]I was also in my 40's when I discovered escorts and later FKK, now whole FKK land is my datcha for my week ends, not my holidays for my real sports in my beloved mountains, but I m happy it was ot before and will never forget I had exceptional real life girlfriends in my previous life, they were prettier than more than 90% of FKK girls, far more interesting as women, much more chic, always wanted to be elegant for me, far more charming. I learned a lot about women with them and for my love for them. I learned women ask for sex when they want a baby, but they also ask for pleasure, so when you give them pleasure, they will say: I wait for you. They never asked me money, they made their own money, even less than me. Reason why I m only interested my woman types. Low level prostitutes don't attract nor interest me.

[QUOTE=Lefeu;2365320]I am in a worse case than you, but I don't regret anything. It would not do me much good anyway. I went to my first FKK visit at the young age of 54, and I have had a ball ever since. The key is to live it up, and not worry too much about what I have missed.[/QUOTE]This is the same for everyone. When you discover it you realize heaven on earth has always existed and you wished you knew sooner no matter what your age.

Actually FKK was one of the first P4 P experiences I discovered (10+ years ago). Equally enlightening were discovery of the Romanian incall agencies in London. What? You browse their services on the web? You go to their apartment and fuck in their bed? What? Wow!

And Tokyo Hentai Club in Tokyo. What? You book your hottie and review the menu? Yes sir I will have the CIM option. Please check that box. No I don't think I need the Instant Blowjob. Thanks. LOL. Who knew? Then I discovered Nuru at Paradise just this year. OMG!

Always learning! 😂.

[QUOTE=Lefeu;2365320]I am in a worse case than you, but I don't regret anything. It would not do me much good anyway. I went to my first FKK visit at the young age of 54, and I have had a ball ever since. The key is to live it up, and not worry too much about what I have missed.[/QUOTE]Very well said. Looking backwards while running forward will make one fall flat on his face in a ditch.

Tennis star Federer says that he shakes off his losses quickly because the amount of pleasure and happiness he obtains from his wins is far more than the hurt and disappointment he feels from his losses.

[QUOTE=LaBambaBoy;2365098]OMG this. I feel like if I had discovered FKK land in my 20's, I may never had taken the marriage detour at all. My whole work career would have been shaped around regular trips to Germany.[/QUOTE]Do you still feel that way today? I am a married man too and pretty happily married one despite what Gino thinks haha, but I agree that my actions might have been different had I discovered these clubs at the age of 20. Now, I was visiting strip clubs and consumed some amount of paid sex even prior to marriage. Perhaps I stayed strictly loyal for a max of a few years after marriage. So, it is not as if I had not strayed. But FKK is a different beast and I suspect I would have become addicted and perhaps not even married if I had discovered these clubs prior to marriage.

I am glad I didn't because I feel my life is more meaningful and contended today because I have a fulfilling family and security that comes with it and yet also have the side fun of paid sex in FKKs and elsewhere. I know the never married folks here think that is not possible but that is a biased judgmental view and they are not living my life to know.

[QUOTE=LaBambaBoy;2365098]OMG this. I feel like if I had discovered FKK land in my 20's, I may never had taken the marriage detour at all. My whole work career would have been shaped around regular trips to Germany.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Pessimist;2365379]I am a married man too and pretty happily married one despite what Gino thinks haha, but I agree that my actions might have been different had I discovered these clubs at the age of 20.[/QUOTE]Hi there,

Its really great that you guy feel free to share so much absolutely truthful and personal information in this open forum. Its fantastic. Thanks so much for sharing. You guys have so much in common. Great to see this absolute truth being revealed in this forum!

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2365379]Do you still feel that way today? I am a married man too and pretty happily married one despite what Gino thinks haha, but I agree that my actions might have been different had I discovered these clubs at the age of 20. Now, I was visiting strip clubs and consumed some amount of paid sex even prior to marriage. Perhaps I stayed strictly loyal for a max of a few years after marriage. So, it is not as if I had not strayed. But FKK is a different beast and I suspect I would have become addicted and perhaps not even married if I had discovered these clubs prior to marriage.

I am glad I didn't because I feel my life is more meaningful and contended today because I have a fulfilling family and security that comes with it and yet also have the side fun of paid sex in FKKs and elsewhere. I know the never married folks here think that is not possible but that is a biased judgmental view and they are not living my life to know.[/QUOTE]Don't have any regrets, with a prostitute you just buy illusion, no trust, no love, no projects, no future nothing. Most of the time I am getting more frustrated by leaving the room after after a session than before.

Yeah I am the same place as you guys. Glad I got married and had kids and the whole "adult thing" but equally glad that I discovered a second life with the WGs.

I believe it was ExPat talking about the illusion. Which is great and the great girls can bring it. Recently I discovered Seeking Arrangement can bring a more authentic experience tho it's a lot of work. And since it's real girls (at least the way I play it) there is way more real emotion involved for better or worse.

I had one girl decline to see me the next night (and we never made it to the room) because she was uncomfortable with my marriage status. This is a real girl thing. Well this same girl has come full circle and we are going to travel together soon when I am on business.

FWIW I have found that a nice non pro Seeking girl will be happy with about the same as an escort but for 3-4 hours dinner and dancing not just in room time.

It takes a TON of effort to find the good ones. But when you do it's way more authentic than pure escort. So it's a nice in between if you are looking for something more. And in the US where prostitution is so painfully illegal and difficult this has become my go to.

I had hot girlfriends and good sex right into my 40's. After 20 years of marriage, no sex. Ironically, in my youth all my girlfriends gave great blowjobs, but my wife never liked to and I could never teach her how to do it well. In marriage you can't have everything. It seemed worth the trade off. The occasional FKK trip takes the tension and need off me, and I don't beg or argue with my wife about sex.

That said, I never, in my civilian life, had sex with women as hot as I just did over the past two days in Frankfurt, and few who gave such exquisite blowjobs.

Its still such a treat when I enter my first club of a trip, see the naked youth, and have my first session. What joy, what paradise! So happy to have found my way here. So glad it is legal and safe.

Sometimes I want to message all porn users. Your fantasies can really come true.

Yes, FKK are kind of second and very different life, but even never married, I may love too much freedom, but with my real life girlfriends, I really didn't need to go elsewhere. Even my last one told me she didn't like sex, from her previous married life, when we met, it was like she threw me icy water in face, but she was so pretty and kissing me all the time, she needed so much love, not being fucked like a piece of meat by her husband, she told me she thought I would leave her, but after kissing and caressing for weeks like if we were 15 , we started foreplaying with DATY after nearly 2 months, when she enjoyed, started with fingers, when she enjoyed, started to rub me on her clit, then on her vagina, but she was so closed even had a child. Took months of love and patience, but after, she asked for: I wait for You, even when she was sick and weak, never heard about headache, had sex during periods. I m proud I re build her as a woman, my present for a wonderful, full of love, so pretty woman. FKK are different but I behave the same: building beauties for me.

[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2365455]Don't have any regrets, with a prostitute you just buy illusion, no trust, no love, no projects, no future nothing. Most of the time I am getting more frustrated by leaving the room after after a session than before.[/QUOTE]It is a great shame that FKKs did not provide you with what you were looking for. As you say, FKK is not a place for you to find love.

You probably did the right thing to transfer your focus to China since 2017, and to turn away from FKKs (as you say in another post).

Good luck in China in finding what you are looking for.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2365641]It is a great shame that FKKs did not provide you with what you were looking for. As you say, FKK is not a place for you to find love.

You probably did the right thing to transfer your focus to China since 2017, and to turn away from FKKs (as you say in another post).

Good luck in China in finding what you are looking for.[/QUOTE]Thank you, Friday I was in Berlin for some business issues and gave a new but may be last try to Artemis, sorry but it was very difficult to find a good looking girl, the bar area is so dark make it difficult to make a choice but in this very hot and sunny day I saw 0 attractive girl outside around the pool. I don t try to convince myself to go with average looking girls, also I don't like sili, botox, girls above 24, at the end went with a brunette but it was a mistake.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2365641]It is a great shame that FKKs did not provide you with what you were looking for. As you say, FKK is not a place for you to find love.
[/QUOTE]Really? Maybe you just need the right formula.

4 steps to finding true love in FKK Land:

1. Visit FKKs for ten years.

2. Form a list of 100 girls who tell you that they love you. Get their numbers.

3. One day message them all that you have gone broke, but you are willing to fuck them tomorrow for free.

4. Buy a puppy.

Steve9696. Your Inbox is full.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2365700]Steve9696. Your Inbox is full.[/QUOTE]Thanks! All clear now.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2365688]Really? Maybe you just need the right formula.

4 steps to finding true love in FKK Land:

1. Visit FKKs for ten years.

2. Form a list of 100 girls who tell you that they love you. Get their numbers.

3. One day message them all that you have gone broke, but you are willing to fuck them tomorrow for free.

4. Buy a puppy.[/QUOTE]Thanks for you funny approach but for me there is no love to find with a prostitute, getting 100 phone numbers from prostitutes is at higher risk that spending 1 month holidays in Afghanistan.

[QUOTE=Zumboit;2365593]I had hot girlfriends and good sex right into my 40's. After 20 years of marriage, no sex. Ironically, in my youth all my girlfriends gave great blowjobs, but my wife never liked to and I could never teach her how to do it well. In marriage you can't have everything. It seemed worth the trade off. The occasional FKK trip takes the tension and need off me, and I don't beg or argue with my wife about sex.

That said, I never, in my civilian life, had sex with women as hot as I just did over the past two days in Frankfurt, and few who gave such exquisite blowjobs.

Its still such a treat when I enter my first club of a trip, see the naked youth, and have my first session. What joy, what paradise! So happy to have found my way here. So glad it is legal and safe.

Sometimes I want to message all porn users. Your fantasies can really come true.[/QUOTE]Never asked for BJ to any of my real life girlfriends, I preferred to treat them like princesses, so they came to kiss all the time, they felt pretty and confident, they asked for pleasure and chose how they wanted to please me. Same behavior in FKK, I don't play grocer, I don't beg for services, for BJ, I play my game, I adapt to girls, I valuate them and I judge their behavior for me. Usually, they choose me first, even before bigger money, because they feel valuated with me.

Replying here because comments are not allowed in the Travel Announcements thread.

[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2365815]Paradise seems to be in troubles since the police raid of last month, Sakura be careful the reports on the German forums are quite bad, for me it is better to try escort when you are in Stuttgart.[/QUOTE]Reports on FKK Paradise and particularly FKK Sakura (also FKK Colosseum) in the media you refer to (in your quoted post) are generally very complimentary. As most long time members also access these foreign language reports, I am happy to leave it for other members to judge which of us is providing accurate information.

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2365326]There are markets that are now open via forums like ISG, WhatsApp, Google Translate, and Uber that were simply not accessible in the past.[/QUOTE]When I was about to venture into the p4p world for the first time, there was virtually no information available on the internet, this was long before Google became known and years before Alta Vista. I was on the verge of spending $1,000's on a short trip to Vikings resort before I stumbled onto a site lauding the charms of Tica's. Thankfully that led me to Rio, Germany and Bangkok & Pattaya.

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2365326]The quantity and quality of information about the international scene was just not as available 10-20 years ago as it is now. So you might not have found this world, even if you had looked for it.

There are markets that are now open via forums like ISG, WhatsApp, Google Translate, and Uber that were simply not accessible in the past. I realize technology is not as important with respect to the FKK market, but what I said was just a general observation.

I posted because another general observation is that a pet peeve of mine on sex worker / John forums are the self-loving, narcissistic assholes in their 50 and 60's who wake up every morning thinking about their autobiographies and declare that no men in their late teens through late 30's should participate in this activity. These are guys who claim to have had beautiful girlfriends and wives when younger (although I have my doubts), who they presumably divorced when those women became less attractive.[/QUOTE]You make a lot of very valid points. First, it is absolutely true that information access plays a huge role in people being able to monger far and wide. You can't monger in a place when you are not even aware of its existence. Google is by far the most important tool for any sex activity — a few simple key word searches and following those links can take you to other places and sooner or later you will stumble on FKKs. In mid or late 1990's, I used to look at Usenet groups like alt. Sex. Prostitution, alt. Sex. Strip-clubs etc. Mostly they were populated with grad students from US and Europe. For whatever reason, Germany was never mentioned prominently back then.

You also make good points about people of a certain age and marital status looking down on other people. There is plenty to go around and guys should focus on having their own fun and finding their own happiness but many people feel compelled to put others down, feel superior about their own choices and belittle others, express skepticism about others and even call them liars and what have you. Obviously, this phenomenon get accentuated on anonymous internet where anyone can act macho.

Personally speaking, whether a guy chooses to get married or not, does it at 25 or 50, is entirely up to him. It is absolutely senseless for anyone else to be offering advice on such personal and complicated subjects. Especially by people on a internet free forum. Let people make their own choices and live with the consequences.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2366295]You make a lot of very valid points. First, it is absolutely true that information access plays a huge role in people being able to monger far and wide. You can't monger in a place when you are not even aware of its existence. Google is by far the most important tool for any sex activity a few simple key word searches and following those links can take you to other places and sooner or later you will stumble on FKKs. In mid or late 1990's, I used to look at Usenet groups like alt. Sex. Prostitution, alt. Sex. Strip-clubs etc. Mostly they were populated with grad students from US and Europe. For whatever reason, Germany was never mentioned prominently back then.

You also make good points about people of a certain age and marital status looking down on other people. There is plenty to go around and guys should focus on having their own fun and finding their own happiness but many people feel compelled to put others down, feel superior about their own choices and belittle others, express skepticism about others and even call them liars and what have you. Obviously, this phenomenon get accentuated on anonymous internet where anyone can act macho.

Personally speaking, whether a guy chooses to get married or not, does it at 25 or 50, is entirely up to him. It is absolutely senseless for anyone else to be offering advice on such personal and complicated subjects. Especially by people on a internet free forum. Let people make their own choices and live with the consequences.[/QUOTE]Yes and no, sometimes to get advises for free can also help you to change or to make better decisions, personally I appreciate it, that why as a old senior monger (many will think too old and stupid) I really think it is.

Not a good option for married guys to go with prostitutes and also I think that there are too many young guys going with prostitutes for them it will be far better to try to convince normal girls and the normal life. Artemis last Friday wall full of young guys, I am really wondering what they are looking for, obviously for 60 euros the girls will open her legs. Too easy better to make them strong by dating normal girls.

[QUOTE=Tintin1;2365015]Are you talking Oasis? Sharks? Disneyland? (Your questions comes after the post by Craiova) Otherwise, you need to look in the specific Forum for the geographic region. When I find any escort I then do a search on her name in this forum and Lusthaus, and then sometimes Gratiszeige. The best girls actually cross post their Lusthaus reviews!-especially when they change names after leaving a specific club. Funny enough, I have the most sympathy for guys who have a v specific type (skinny girls with tiny breasts who do anal. Or girls with DDD boobs who like DATY) cause if you hit my sweet spot, I occasionally share favorites.[/QUOTE]I don't mean the FKKs but high end independent or agency girls. Similar to what's available in Vancouver, Montreal or Toronto.

Several of you have expressed interest in the whole Seeking Arrangement thing which I've been using a lot of late, particularly stateside. Here is a quick New York report out.

As a refresher SA is a sugar daddy / baby site where girls range from straight up pros to uninitiated newbies and I saw both ends recently. NYC is a tough nut. Most girls want $500-800 right off the bat (yeah try not to vomit. This is pussy prison USA and prices are commensurate). My max for a USA encounter is $400. And of course with escorts that's per hour. With SA girls it's per date. So a much better value particularly if you enjoy time outside the bedroom. So long story short after 3 weeks Of research (yep!) I ended up with 3 hotties that either agreed $400 or we left it open.

Girl 1 - Heavily tatted, full backplate, but super sophisticated despite being 23. Asian long blonde hair super cute. Had a great dinner and drinks and went to the room. Skipped the BJ which was disappointing but the sex was great and she was super wet. We never discussed $$ one time. Which is unusual. 3 hrs I think. Left with $400 and we are still in touch so I guess it was OK.

Girl 2 - Half Korean half Vietnamese super pretty college girl. Completely inexperienced which was actually fun. I had told her ahead the gift would be in hundreds but less than $500. That is as much as we bracketed it. OMG a top five experience. Not the sex per de which was very good including CIM and swallow. But a two hour romantic dinner. Walking hand in hand thru the city. And wow the pillow talk staring into one another's eyes. $400. (Should have given her 500). FIVE hours.

Girl 3- More of a pro. Peruvian. Nothing to write home about. "Too tired for cowgirl" WTF? But had a great pussy feel and came hard in lazy dog. $400.2 hrs including drinks.

Anyhow. It's there if I are willing to work it. And some of the experiences can be spectacular if you dig the GF thing like I do. Best of luck!

Steve9696. I really enjoyed your information. Honest, straightforward, genuine reporting. Whilst it is perhaps off topic in a strict sense, I find it really useful for setting a context for German FKKs and helps frame my approach in FKKs. For various reasons I cannot follow the paths you so often have vividly reported on, but your reports give me at least some wider experiences from a man who has clearly forgotten more than I will ever know in the world of P6.

I will continue in my search for GFE in FKK.

Cheers.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2367945]Steve9696. I really enjoyed your information. Honest, straightforward, genuine reporting. Whilst it is perhaps off topic in a strict sense, I find it really useful for setting a context for German FKKs and helps frame my approach in FKKs. For various reasons I cannot follow the paths you so often have vividly reported on, but your reports give me at least some wider experiences from a man who has clearly forgotten more than I will ever know in the world of P6.

I will continue in my search for GFE in FKK.

Cheers.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the kind words O. I enjoy keeping track and sharing and I love it when I can help out fellow enthusiasts. Glad to hear it's useful and welcome. Keep flying the FKK flag till I return!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2367972]Thanks for the kind words O. I enjoy keeping track and sharing and I love it when I can help out fellow enthusiasts. Glad to hear it's useful and welcome. Keep flying the FKK flag till I return![/QUOTE]Steve 9696, please clear some space to receive private messages.

NYC, SF and Boston are not the best places to seek sugar babes on SA or other such sites. Prices are high, girls' demands are excessive and quality is variable. If you have a chance, try the next time you are in Dallas or Houston, Phoenix, St. Louis or Tampa or Atlanta. Big population centers but not expensive cities are the best places for this hobby. PSE sex with tattooed girls can be had for $200 and even a fresh, slender, 20 year old blonde innocent beauty is available for $300 or less. The latter will put even the best FKK girl in the shade and to shame.

In NYC and San Fran, you are competing against guys with megabucks. $400 or $800 is chump change for many well heeded guys there. Of course, if you are also in that league you can play. I almost always seek out local girls when I'm traveling in the less expensive cities but when I am in NYC or Boston, I typically have a nice dinner and catch an early sleep in my hotel.

From 2011 to 2015, when was golden years, I remember my Russian nights in Paris, Milano or Torino. It, taking escorts at 10.30/11 pm, starting with restaurant with Paris by night visit, sometimes perfume or Disney gift for child for little mum, then they were so passionate for sex until 3/4 am, for 200/250 out of agency, sometimes cancelling appointments. I think about 20 Russian nights. With Anna from Ufa in Ural, far deep Russia, had in Paris, Milano and Torino. I remember our first night, I booked her on a Saturday evening at 10.30 pm, not our first meeting, when I arrived she was exhausted because she had nothing to eat, she started to cry so I told her: we go to restaurant, she kissed me, shame on me on champs Elysées and in the restaurant, the model on high heels with the tramp in sport clothes. She asked me where were toilets in restaurant, I showed her and asked her when she had short skirt: when You come back, You put off your panty and give me, erotic game in restaurant and after in Paris. We stayed together until 8 am, I ordered a big breakfast for her, when I booked her for 1 hour for 250,50 % for star escorts agency. She was free on Sunday, I had to take care of my mother, but Anna asked me to return to her after, I came back to her, taking her visiting again Paris, then restaurant, then bed again. She didn't tell about money, I put 200 on table when I left at 4 am, sent her message to tell her, she answered: I understood what man You are. Unfortunately 5 months later she was attacked by a fake client who robbed escorts threatening them, but we kept on meeting in Italy for more than 1 year. So enjoyable nights, more real and quite cheap rate compare to agency. At this time, my company paid most of diners and even few presents, and I was the less expensive guy for restaurant spending.

Hello everyone,

Firstly, thank you to everyone for the brilliant reports and reviews on this forum. It's definitely made it a well of knowledge for those of us who're less familiar or new to the scene.

I'm going to be in the region in October and will be making a special detour to Frankfurt for my first and probably only experience of the FKK scene ever!

However, I only have 1 night! Try as I may, I won't get more than the 1 night in Frankfurt. So I really to make the visit worth it and while I've done a bit of research here, I still thought I'the ask all of you for any advice that might tip the scales in terms of clubs or travel arrangement.

In terms of club, I've pretty much settle on either Sharks or Oase as everything I've read here points to those beings the biggest in terms of size and LU. I doubt I could make both in the same night so given that.

1. Is there a clear winner in terms of whether I should choose Sharks or Oase? Or are both on the same level and it just comes down to preference? I'll be going on Sat night.

2. Should I stay in Frankfurt or Darmstadt if I go to Sharks?

3. How much is taxi to Oase or Sharks from Frankfurt and are they easy to come by?

Thank you all for your help!

Steve9696, completely off topic but much appreciated. I've wondered if this would be a good way to hook up and I think that one day I might use it if circumstances allow.

Does anyone think that admin might create a topic for Sugar Daddy dating?

[QUOTE=Downandup;2368238]

Does anyone think that admin might create a topic for Sugar Daddy dating?[/QUOTE]Good question and I think they should. I think that sugarbaby / sugardaddy is the future of paid sex if mongers look for paid sex with good quality.

Now 80% of my sessions are with sugar babies. That is why I haven't posted anything here for a while and don't plan to write anything here in the future except on the subjects related to sugarbaby. Thank Steve, Pessimist and others for bringing up this subject. I would try to contribute my take on this subject if it comes up here in the future.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2368259]Good question and I think they should. I think that sugarbaby / sugardaddy is the future of paid sex if mongers look for paid sex with good quality.

Now 80% of my sessions are with sugar babies. That is why I haven't posted anything here for a while and don't plan to write anything here in the future except on the subjects related to sugarbaby. Thank Steve, Pessimist and others for bringing up this subject. I would try to contribute my take on this subject if it comes up here in the future.[/QUOTE]FKKs are awesome but they are great if you live in Germany and perhaps live in close proximity to some of the nicer clubs. They also work for the folks who are wealthy enough to fly several times a year to DE and spend several thousand dollars per trip.

For others, their neighborhood mongering is still the way to go. Yes, if the dude can fly to Frankfurt a couple of times a year those FKK visits are still cherished. But a man needs sex not just twice a year but all year around.

In the past, local laws and politicians and LE made local mongering difficult. The issue was always about information. But today, governments' ability to control information is breaking down.

I have said before but there is a thriving semi professional and amateur paid sex scene in the US. I have been using it for more than a handful of years. The good news is that with time, the supply and demand have both grown and it has become a bigger, deeper market. Interestingly, when a market becomes bigger, wider, deeper, prices become standardized without a regulating agency like a FKK owner. Sure, prices are local and vary between NYC and Omaha but in any given locality prices are now in a narrower range than even 3 years ago based on my experience. Whereas in the past I might have gotten quotes of 150 to 1000 per meet from Poorly informed girls a few years ago, now they are in a smaller narrower range if you exclude a few extreme outliers.

You can find these girls on multiple platforms too. Tinder has a thriving semi pro market. The other gentleman mentioned [URL]seeking.com[/URL] and there are other sites although [URL]seeking.com[/URL] is the largest. Many girls are on multiple sites. There are perennial girls whose sole income stream comes from being a sugarbabe and there are others who come to a site to make a quick thousand for an upcoming iPhone purchase or to pay for a plane fare and do this as a one time.

And I think LE is neither able to nor interested in killing this market. When it is a peer to peer messaging between several millions of guys and guys and you do the math, they simply do not have the bandwidth. Everyone is participating — doctors, lawyers, respectable businessmen, perhaps even many policemen, pols. As long as the girls are not standing in the seedy part of town and a guy picking her up while you are behind them at the traffic lights, no one is complaining. And you cane discrete in your communication. No one asks "do you want to fuck for $300?" just in case LE is snooping. "What do you like to do" "I'm open to anything" voila. You know the girl will put out for sex, then meet in person and negotiate pricing.

Plus, the other change that has happened is that in the western societies, girls have a very laid attitude to sex now, far more lax than even 20 years ago. Making a quick 300 for a hookup is no longer such a taboo. Everyone is happy. Be nice, look and smell nice and spend some time in developing a relationship, the girl provides a nice GFE experience willingly and she even enjoys the hookup as much as you do.

As I said in another post which seems deleted for some reason, it is far more advantageous if you live in a less expensive region. I'm curious from the Europeans what kind of prices you are paying. In the more expensive cities like NYC and SF, $400 doesn't go very far. But try your luck in Dallas or Houston, Phoenix or Atlanta, Indianapolis or Tampa, you can get quite lucky for 300 or even 200. I travel a good amount for work, and have established semi regular sugarbabes in a few cities. And in my own city, there are several hundreds even in the 18 to 25 year age range who are happily putting out.

Don't get me wrong, I still love FKKs and still making multiple trips a year. But it is not my only avenue for paid sex.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2368259]Good question and I think they should. I think that sugarbaby / sugardaddy is the future of paid sex if mongers look for paid sex with good quality.

Now 80% of my sessions are with sugar babies. That is why I haven't posted anything here for a while and don't plan to write anything here in the future except on the subjects related to sugarbaby. Thank Steve, Pessimist and others for bringing up this subject. I would try to contribute my take on this subject if it comes up here in the future.[/QUOTE]I don't understand what you mean with sugar baby, is it MILF prostitutes, if yes I will never pay for them so easy to get for free in normal life, for me the girls must be young, fresh. I am 60 YO and this is difficult to get, but to date a 35 or 45 YO woman is very easy if you have some cash and you are not too stupid.

[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2368335]I don't understand what you mean with sugar baby, is it MILF prostitutes, if yes I will never pay for them so easy to get for free in normal life, for me the girls must be young, fresh. I am 60 YO and this is difficult to get, but to date a 35 or 45 YO woman is very easy if you have some cash and you are not too stupid.[/QUOTE]Sugar babies are not MILFS, girls offering illusion to older and generous men and in exchange they get a flat monthly income or they pay for their studies, travel etc. A more modern way of prostitution, it is like an agreement between both sides.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2368259]Good question and I think they should. I think that sugarbaby / sugardaddy is the future of paid sex if mongers look for paid sex with good quality.

Now 80% of my sessions are with sugar babies. That is why I haven't posted anything here for a while and don't plan to write anything here in the future except on the subjects related to sugarbaby. Thank Steve, Pessimist and others for bringing up this subject. I would try to contribute my take on this subject if it comes up here in the future.[/QUOTE]But what does that have to do with FKK's?

Personally I think the future lies in brain machine interfaces, and sex in a VR world where touch feels realistic. But it is at least 5 years away, and probably 10 before it has started maturing with content and good interfaces.

[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2368335]I don't understand what you mean with sugar baby, is it MILF prostitutes, ...[/QUOTE]No, it is not MILF prostitutes. I only do sugarbabies at age 18 and 19, as many readers here probably know from my previous posts that my preference of the girls is under 20 (18+). Actually one of my sugar babies was a virgin when I had sex with her the first time, whom I still see from time to time. I wrote about her in one of my previous posts although I wasn't sure if she was a virgin at that time and she admitted to me recently she was indeed a virgin.

[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2368335]I don't understand what you mean with sugar baby, is it MILF prostitutes, if yes I will never pay for them so easy to get for free in normal life, for me the girls must be young, fresh. I am 60 YO and this is difficult to get, but to date a 35 or 45 YO woman is very easy if you have some cash and you are not too stupid.[/QUOTE]I thought this lady who did her college thesis on Sugar Babying did a really good job.

[URL]https://curve.carleton.ca/system/files/etd/5186cf8e-fca9-4e98-8bc5-36239cf1cdf3/etd_pdf/6661a3fe8ba3152811f0f9272f783855/daly-sugarbabiesandsugardaddiesanexplorationof.pdf[/URL]

It is cited in some more sensationalized articles.

[URL]https://www.mndaily.com/article/2019/01/n-the-bittersweet-life-of-sugar-babies-at-the-university-of-minnesota[/URL]

Like all sex work, it encompasses a wide variety of ages. A consistent theme of many female participants is that they do not consider themselves prostitutes. None of us really know quite what to think of that statement, since we all like prostitutes.

Now that the United States in particular has made it relatively more difficult for escorts to advertise, there appears to be an increase in the interest in the Sugar Baby system. For escorts and Johns with existing lists, the new USA Law was not quite as much of an immediate concern, but for a lot of the new "relationships", the Sugar Baby system is getting a lot of attention. But it is a different structure than seeing an escort since it is geared toward longer-term arrangements.

Time will tell how it all turns out. For what it is worth, internally the Sugar Baby sites are reported to be trying to keep more traditional escorts from joining and advertising by monitoring ads and conversations within their websites.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2368310] I'm curious from the Europeans what kind of prices you are paying. [/QUOTE]In Germany where I know, there is no standard rate and every girl asks or accepts different price. Your tactics and strategy ultimately decide how much you have to pay. I never paid more than 200 euro per hour and usually 150 euro for the first meeting with almost everything included (no anal and CIM which I haven't asked since they are not my thing), but after the first meeting, I usually paid less and sometimes 80 euro for 30 min because I am 30-min guy LOL.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2368399]In Germany where I know, there is no standard rate and every girl asks or accepts different price. Your tactics and strategy ultimately decide how much you have to pay. I never paid more than 200 euro per hour and usually 150 euro for the first meeting with almost everything included (no anal and CIM which I haven't asked since they are not my thing), but after the first meeting, I usually paid less and sometimes 80 euro for 30 min because I am 30-min guy LOL.[/QUOTE]Thank you.

Do you pay by the hour? Around here, the usual practice is to pay per meet, or even per week or per month if the deal becomes a long term arrangement. As Steve said, it could be a couple of hours or 3 or 4 hours, depending on mutual availability, mutual schedules and level of interest. That said, it is very rare for any meet to end in less than 2 hours in my experience.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2368376]But what does that have to do with FKK's?

Personally I think the future lies in brain machine interfaces, and sex in a VR world where touch feels realistic. But it is at least 5 years away, and probably 10 before it has started maturing with content and good interfaces.[/QUOTE][URL]https://youtu.be/-cN8sJz50Ng[/URL]

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2368389]I thought this lady who did her college thesis on Sugar Babying did a really good job.

[URL]https://curve.carleton.ca/system/files/etd/5186cf8e-fca9-4e98-8bc5-36239cf1cdf3/etd_pdf/6661a3fe8ba3152811f0f9272f783855/daly-sugarbabiesandsugardaddiesanexplorationof.pdf[/URL]

It is cited in some more sensationalized articles.

[URL]https://www.mndaily.com/article/2019/01/n-the-bittersweet-life-of-sugar-babies-at-the-university-of-minnesota[/URL]

Like all sex work, it encompasses a wide variety of ages. A consistent theme of many female participants is that they do not consider themselves prostitutes. None of us really know quite what to think of that statement, since we all like prostitutes.

Now that the United States in particular has made it relatively more difficult for escorts to advertise, there appears to be an increase in the interest in the Sugar Baby system. For escorts and Johns with existing lists, the new USA Law was not quite as much of an immediate concern, but for a lot of the new "relationships", the Sugar Baby system is getting a lot of attention. But it is a different structure than seeing an escort since it is geared toward longer-term arrangements.

Time will tell how it all turns out. For what it is worth, internally the Sugar Baby sites are reported to be trying to keep more traditional escorts from joining and advertising by monitoring ads and conversations within their websites.[/QUOTE]If you have been on sugar babe sites, and I would broadly extend this to apps like Tinder where also I find a decent number of paid sex choices, you will know that the success ratio is not 90% nor even 50%. I don't know what's the definition of prostitution. There are people who say all marriages involve prostitution to the extent the female provides sex in exchange for security and upkeep (not all marriages, as many western women these days make more money than their husbands). Be that as it may, my success rate in a place like any FKK club is near 99% or at least high 90's as I can remember very very few rejections in any club over time. I challenge any guy who can say he was rejected by less than 1% of the girls or 5% on a site like [URL]seeking.com[/URL], unless the guy is hitting up only loser skanks and fat no-hopers. I have to say my comments here are limited to US sugar babe sites, no clue how this works in EU.

But I do agree with you that the sugarbabe sites are very careful to keep out obvious escorts and prostitutes. I have seen a few porn stars here and there but even their accounts were shut down very quickly. The sites typically have boilerplate disclaimers about prostitutes not being welcome, and deals in the nature of ppm (pay per meet) also not being legal. They want to keep the site alive as they are probably highly profitable and the last thing they need is a regulator cracking down on them and shutting them down because they have the look and feel of prostitution sites.

But guys can quickly figure out if a girl is a tute or a normal girl trying to make some money on the side. For one, a professional will almost always be agreeable to your advances, will respond very quickly, will not want to know that much about you not has any real interest in you, will likely bring up the transaction and even the terms and payments within a short amount of time after saying Hello, and very likely give her number within the first few messages. A normal girl is much more likely to want to know something about you, spend a lot of time wanting to know what you have on mind, and be wanting some amount of wooing. A normal girl will also change her mind for no apparent reason, as many women do and block you. I have never been blocked by a tute unless I rejected her price.

And in my experience, a decent percent of the normal girls I have met on sugar babe sites were also on Tinder. I also didn't find a huge overlap between the "tutes on sugar babe sites" and high end escorts. This is my experience. YMMV.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2367972]Thanks for the kind words O. I enjoy keeping track and sharing and I love it when I can help out fellow enthusiasts. Glad to hear it's useful and welcome. Keep flying the FKK flag till I return![/QUOTE]You should totally post a guide. All too often most the girls are just straight up scams and it's hard to find the diamond in the rough.

VR brain machine interfaces my arse. I personally plan to keep screwing warm bodied human females, until I no longer can. But you have fun with the VR goggles and rubber dolls, LOL.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2368376]But what does that have to do with FKK's?

Personally I think the future lies in brain machine interfaces, and sex in a VR world where touch feels realistic. But it is at least 5 years away, and probably 10 before it has started maturing with content and good interfaces.[/QUOTE]

I will be in Paris for around a week. I need help deciding whether to monger in Paris or travel to any FKK clubs in Germany to make the max out of these days?

If FKK, which one would be the best?

[QUOTE=ILuvIndie;2368512]I will be in Paris for around a week. I need help deciding whether to monger in Paris or travel to any FKK clubs in Germany to make the max out of these days?

If FKK, which one would be the best?[/QUOTE]I was born, live and work in Paris which is my life. According to my last stroll or rdv4 U experiences, even some were good, but I prefer now FKK land where I find even only few but prettier Romanians than Russians now touring in Paris. If You are between 12 and 22 September, take train to Frankfurt where IAA which should attract girls at Oase, Sharks, Mainhattan and Palace.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2368406]Thank you.

Do you pay by the hour? Around here, the usual practice is to pay per meet, or even per week or per month if the deal becomes a long term arrangement. As Steve said, it could be a couple of hours or 3 or 4 hours, depending on mutual availability, mutual schedules and level of interest. That said, it is very rare for any meet to end in less than 2 hours in my experience.[/QUOTE]In Germany the sugarbabies are also paid per meet like in America. By using my tactics and strategy, all of my meetings were no more than one hour, so the prices in my previous post are the prices per meet and some of my meetings lasted 30 minutes with total cost of 80 euro.

I don't know the sugarbaby scene in America since I retired in my very early 40's more than 15 years ago as a successful bond trader in one of the major wall-street financial firms in New York and moved from New York to Europe to pursue this hobby (well, for me it is addiction LOL).

But I think that the tactics and strategy should be similar everywhere whether it is America or Europe. Unfortunately in this sugarbaby business you have to harmlessly lie. For example, you can say to a local sugar baby that I am a married man and only have time during lunch break, so I can do maximum one hour during lunch break and pay you $200 (or whatever). Vast majority (if not most) of the local sugar babies will do it from my experience because FUNDAMENTALLY they were already open to prostitution mentally and $200 is good money for any girl for one fuck. If she were a non-working girl, she would have to work her ass off for at least 2 days to earn $200. One condition though: you have to be doable in her eyes and with some sophistication. I am pretty sure that you and Steve are presentable and sophisticated since you guys represent your companies and travel around world for your company business.

So I had trouble with my flights to Graz and ended up in Frankfurt for the night. Report forthcoming. But the biggest surprise of all was the ATM rate at Sharks! No surcharge and great market rate. Wow. Complete surprise for a strip / FKK club.

[QUOTE=Willsg;2368201]Hello everyone,

Firstly, thank you to everyone for the brilliant reports and reviews on this forum. It's definitely made it a well of knowledge for those of us who're less familiar or new to the scene.

I'm going to be in the region in October and will be making a special detour to Frankfurt for my first and probably only experience of the FKK scene ever!

However, I only have 1 night! Try as I may, I won't get more than the 1 night in Frankfurt. So I really to make the visit worth it and while I've done a bit of research here, I still thought I'the ask all of you for any advice that might tip the scales in terms of clubs or travel arrangement.

In terms of club, I've pretty much settle on either Sharks or Oase as everything I've read here points to those beings the biggest in terms of size and LU. I doubt I could make both in the same night so given that.[/QUOTE]Prettier faces at Oase. Depend on your day visit? Better from Wednesday to Saturday. Sunday and Monday can also be OK at Sharks. Sharks should be easier to start. Bus from airport to Darmstadt.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2368695]So I had trouble with my flights to Graz and ended up in Frankfurt for the night. Report forthcoming. But the biggest surprise of all was the ATM rate at Sharks! No surcharge and great market rate. Wow. Complete surprise for a strip / FKK club.[/QUOTE]So I posted Sharks part one in the Sharks thread. As usual, my detailed write up. Part two coming soon.

Great to be back in the FKK saddle again boys! Enjoy!

[QUOTE=Pistons;2368376]...Personally I think the future lies in brain machine interfaces, and sex in a VR world where touch feels realistic. But it is at least 5 years away, and probably 10 before it has started maturing with content and good interfaces.[/QUOTE]Brain / machine interfaces aren't even close yet. They are typically crude yes / no or menu selection devices that remain dependent on computer displays etc. There is nothing that even begins to deliver real-world-like experience.

Current VR technology doesn't use a direct brain / machine interface. Adding haptics to the current use of 3 D head-mounted displays is currently done using crude mechanics and without significant factors such as texture and warmth.

When talking about the future saying something is "impossible" is always dangerous, but 5 - 10 years is not nearly enough time from today to develop artificial sex that is realistic.

Just dropped round 3 in the Sharks thread. So good to be back in the FKK saddle. Nothing quite like it worldwide.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2368886]Brain / machine interfaces aren't even close yet. They are typically crude yes / no or menu selection devices that remain dependent on computer displays etc. There is nothing that even begins to deliver real-world-like experience.

Current VR technology doesn't use a direct brain / machine interface. Adding haptics to the current use of 3 D head-mounted displays is currently done using crude mechanics and without significant factors such as texture and warmth.

When talking about the future saying something is "impossible" is always dangerous, but 5 - 10 years is not nearly enough time from today to develop artificial sex that is realistic.[/QUOTE]I will stick to my 5-10 year schedule. But 5 is a little optimistic for it to be useful for sex probably yes. 10 is highly reasonable though.

- Neuralink has a goal of having a system going for the average joe in 2024. (For handicapped from next year), but first generation is never the best, and chances are it will get a year or two delayed.

- All the needed science is out there. They just need to put it all together, and perhaps change things around a bit to trick the brain immune system from deteriorating the plastics Neuralink seems to be using. But universities have come up with solutions.

- A company financed by darpa has a system in development with 10-20 times more neural threads than Neuralinks new system, and the estimated release date is in 2021. So the military is well ahead.

- Haptics is not needed for BMI's. Haptics is a non-BMI thing, so very irrelevant here. Although I am sure it can be integrated, it is like putting jam on top of jam. And yes, haptics for sex will probably never feel real. Unless you look decades ahead at least.

[URL]https://www.medgadget.com/2019/03/neural-probes-for-brain-computer-interfaces-mimic-real-neurons.html[/URL]

Darpa has been financing this tech for 6 years already, with several initiatives. Neuralink has worked on it for 3 so far.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2368681]In Germany the sugarbabies are also paid per meet like in America. By using my tactics and strategy, all of my meetings were no more than one hour, so the prices in my previous post are the prices per meet and some of my meetings lasted 30 minutes with total cost of 80 euro.

I don't know the sugarbaby scene in America since I retired in my very early 40's more than 15 years ago as a successful bond trader in one of the major wall-street financial firms in New York and moved from New York to Europe to pursue this hobby (well, for me it is addiction LOL).

But I think that the tactics and strategy should be similar everywhere whether it is America or Europe. Unfortunately in this sugarbaby business you have to harmlessly lie. For example, you can say to a local sugar baby that I am a married man and only have time during lunch break, so I can do maximum one hour during lunch break and pay you $200 (or whatever)..[/QUOTE]OK, thanks. That's helpful.

From what you described, I think the markets and conditions may be different here and in EU. For one thing, I think it is difficult to extremely different to find any girl willing to fuck for 80 bucks here on SB sites. Girls have transportation needs, have to put on makeup and get prepared and come over etc. The actual fuck time together may be 30 min, but the total time budget for her from leaving her door to coming back to her door is much higher, depending on the size of the city and where she lives relative to you. Many girls here ask for Uber money just to meet you for the first time.

Perhaps backpage and Craig's list may have 80 buck hookers. Don't use them myself. Perhaps there are some fat, ugly, older chicks on sugarbabe sites who may be willing to take such small amounts but good looking young chicks are looking to make at least $200 and often a lot more per meet. And this is in the cheaper cities. In expensive places like SF and NYC and Boston, it is much more than 200 or 300 per meet.

But the upside is that she usually spends more than an hour and often 2 to 3 hours or even more. The per hour rate comes to a low enough amount, even less than 100 dollars, if you play your cards right. In that sense, this is more of a GFE experience than a quick transactional fuck. Also, nothing is an extra, ever. I have done AO with *a few* girls after I got to know them well, anal with more than a handful, and CIM is fairly common. I have never and would never do AO in a FKK, but feel more comfortable with a sugar babe after I know more of her past and present.

But the main thing about sugar babe sites is that even in a national market like US, it is a collection of local markets. Tough to generalize them across this huge nation. Even when I have used sugar babes across some other US cities, I don't know them as well as I know my home city.

After reading your post, with all due respect and for the purpose of giving the different view to the US and EU readers who might be interested in venturing into this field, I still think the US and EU markets are similar if not same.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2369266]

I think it is difficult to extremely different to find any girl willing to fuck for 80 bucks here on SB sites. Girls have transportation needs, have to put on makeup and get prepared and come over etc. The actual fuck time together may be 30 min, but the total time budget for her from leaving her door to coming back to her door is much higher, depending on the size of the city and where she lives relative to you. Many girls here ask for Uber money just to meet you for the first time.[/QUOTE]I didn't say any of my 80-euro meetings was my first meet with any sugar baby, This price came after I had several meetings with them and made my effort and worked on them to lower the cost per meet. Of course, some of them didn't budge and some of them did. The point is that you have to work on it and make your effort on it as I emphasized on tactics and strategy. In addition, EU and US prices of prostitutes have economic discrepancy and 80 euro for the sugarbabies in Germany may be perceived to $120 or $xxx for the sugarbabies in USA.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2369266]

Perhaps backpage and Craig's list may have 80 buck hookers. Don't use them myself. Perhaps there are some fat, ugly, older chicks on sugarbabe sites who may be willing to take such small amounts but good looking young chicks are looking to make at least $200 and often a lot more per met. And this is in the cheaper cities. In expensive places like SF and NYC and Boston, it is much more than 200 or 300 per meet. [/QUOTE]As I wrote in one of my previous posts, I only do 18 or 19-year-old. I would add now that I only do Caucasian girls with northern European root and normal figure. As some readers here know, I don't go to FKK. After all these years in Germany and another European country, I only went to FKK clubs about 20 times, mainly to GT, and that says all. On ISG I never wrote anything on the FKK threads except GT, here and I think one or two times on other threads. Frankly speaking, it made me depressed to see all those Romanian/Gypsy girls when I was in FKK clubs.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2369266]

But the upside is that she usually spends more than an hour and often 2 to 3 hours or even more. The per hour rate comes to a low enough amount, even less than 100 dollars, if you play your cards right. In that sense, this is more of a GFE experience than a quick transactional fuck. [/QUOTE]I think that the purpose of our discussion is to figure out whether the cost of sugarbaby, which is perceived to be much higher than normal WGs, can be lowered to close, but probably not the same, to normal WG's price. Sure, if anyone is willing to pay $500, $600 or even higher per meet, we shouldn't have this discussion because every monger who knows a little about sugar baby knows that. I think that what you wrote above doesn't prove it can't be $200 or lower per meet with sugar babies in US like in EU.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2369266]

nothing is an extra, ever. I have done AO with *a few* girls after I got to know them well, anal with more than a handful, and CIM is fairly common. I have never and would never do AO in a FKK, [/QUOTE]Same in Germany. For legal reason, I don't want to get into detail on this aspect. I have a 18-year-old girl like my real girlfriend. After she started to see me, she took off her ads on the site and see me exclusively. So you can imagine what we do sexually.

Gents,

Anyone know what is going on at Colosseum? The link to the models page is gone, the models page is now blank. Worse of all, I have been in personal contact with Adele for almost two years and she has gone silent. Anyone know something?

[QUOTE=Pistons;2369038]I will stick to my 5-10 year schedule. But 5 is a little optimistic for it to be useful for sex probably yes. 10 is highly reasonable though.[/QUOTE]The target in your prediction is vague enough that I suppose you can try to wriggle around to justify it. I was addressing the specific ideas that (1) physical robots could provide a subjective experience that could be mistaken for that with a physical human, or (2) that a direct brain connection could allow a computer to synthesize a subjective experience that could be mistaken for that with a physical human.

People, of course, already make physical objects that can deliver a satisfying sexual response. Dildos have been around for hundreds (thousands?) of years. But those are satisfying sexual experiences that would never be mistaken for a human / human encounter. Ditto for current "sex dolls" and so on.

Haptics would be among the technologies required for (1). For (2) by definition haptics or other stimulation of neurons outside of the brain would not be used. But the current technology requires the implantation of hundreds of tiny wires into the brain itself. And even the direct stimulation of hundreds of neurons lacks the data bandwidth to deliver the full range of vision, sound, taste, touch, and smell required to make that experience indistinguishable from, or equivalent to, daily real world experience. In addition, there is little to no understanding as to how to map an intended experience to be delivered into the specific signals sent artificially to specific points of brain contact.

But let's say we know everything about sending signals to the brain. That's not enough. The computer creating those signals has to "know" what the human recipient is doing. It's not enough for the human to, say, decide that now is the time for insertion. The computer has to somehow know the human has made that decision and then react by creating the signals that "feel" like insertion. Again, this is far out of reach.

So I'm sure there will be "something" 10 years from now that is more advanced than what we now have. But something like "the Matrix" for sex? Not even close.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2369562]The target in your prediction is vague enough that I suppose you can try to wriggle around to justify it. I was addressing the specific ideas that (1) physical robots could provide a subjective experience that could be mistaken for that with a physical human, or (2) that a direct brain connection could allow a computer to synthesize a subjective experience that could be mistaken for that with a physical human.

People, of course, already make physical objects that can deliver a satisfying sexual response. Dildos have been around for hundreds (thousands?) of years. But those are satisfying sexual experiences that would never be mistaken for a human / human encounter. Ditto for current "sex dolls" and so on.

Haptics would be among the technologies required for (1). For (2) by definition haptics or other stimulation of neurons outside of the brain would not be used. But the current technology requires the implantation of hundreds of tiny wires into the brain itself. And even the direct stimulation of hundreds of neurons lacks the data bandwidth to deliver the full range of vision, sound, taste, touch, and smell required to make that experience indistinguishable from, or equivalent to, daily real world experience. In addition, there is little to no understanding as to how to map an intended experience to be delivered into the specific signals sent artificially to specific points of brain contact..[/QUOTE]There is nothing in your post which is impossible. Bandwidth? Moore's laws continuation with the new 3 the circuitry, predominantly using nanotubes will solve that problem.

100 wires? Try thousands of wires, or millions, and mathematical geometrics to fine tune it.

What you refer to at the end there is more of a user interface question. Most likely something we will figure out how to solve by studying the brain further. But in order to do so, we need big data. From something like Neuralink, or other similar companies. So the first generation is very important for that information gathering. Worst case: we still need to move around in a small enclosed room with a vr headset on. Yet, the sense out touch itself can be the only thing fooled through the brain machine interface, while the rest is like we have it already.

Hello Mr. BFsie,

If the 80 euro session was obtained after several meetings with a given girl, then it is a different calculation. I'm not privy to all your SB history (not that I am curious) but that particular meet you listed can't be accurately characterized as a stand-alone 80 for half-hour sugarbabe session because She Perhaps was giving a discount based on the past or expectations of future payments.

Here, weekly and monthly SB arrangements are quite common and we may agree to meeting a couple of times a week but if I meet the girl for a third session in a week, she will charge nothing even if a third meet in the week is not agreed upon originally. I would not characterize that as obtaining free sex with the SB.

I agree completely about the economic disparity. In your neighborhood you can legally walk into a FKK and fuck for 50. We have no such avenue, at least not of equally comparable quality.

I know you said the two continents are similar or the same and I respect your view. I personally don't know anything about the European SB market and can make zero claims about it — whether it is similar to the US or different. In my experience, there are large differences between sugar babes within different cities in the US alone, leaveaside EU. This is very much a free lancer market and every girl sets her own price and there is a large range of expectations. The price range is getting narrower but still a large enough range.

I hardly ever argue much with a girl over price. If a girl asks for too high of allowance amount, I wish her good luck and move on. No arguing, not much bargaining, nothing. There are so many other girls, why waste time on one?

I can't even claim all FKK clubs are similar or the same even though we have club owners enforcing similar pricing across the land. In the sugar babe market, there is no such thing. I myself have paid varying amounts to different girls within my own city, and different amounts to girls in other cities.

If anyone has been able to obtain any fuck sessions for less than 150 (regardless of how much time) with a good looking young white chick on the US on sugarbabe sites, they are welcome to post the experience. I have not seen it first hand. Our SB sessions generally follow a Costco model, which is a longer session, all goodies included, and a bigger amount. Again this is my experience.

Anyway, I realize you are trying to be and being very helpful sharing your experiences and thank you.

Just finished my 3 days trip Sharks+Globe+Palace.

Sharks was as usual, some new addition to the LU and some are there for ages.

Had a room with Monika which was surprisingly disappointing, my senses are not as they were. Next day in Globe ZH, after a two years absence still a big wow, hands down any experience in DE. It was a Tuesday when all the rooms are closed and public action rules, including the guy who sat on a strapon that was attached to a the girl below him, public action.

Palace is ready for the Messe, girl are walking in couples offering trio as a basic service, Had a nice room with Claudia.

God bless FKK!

No wow for me at Globe on this Summer and when I read tagesplan, even Globe would be the closest from my climbing, but I don t go and preferred my girls at Samya or even at Gold Ratingen. Big fall compare to Summer 2018 when Globe was on top. Maybe only worth now for public sex, lack of pretty faces and chic.

This post is about sugar baby. If any reader is not interested in it, please skip or ignore it. If any potential poster wants to post something on other topic here, please go ahead to post it because I don't want to hijack this thread.

Pessimist,

As I wrote, I never paid more than 200 euro per hour and all of my meets lasted no more than one hour, therefore all of my meets costed no more than 200 euro per meet. So there was no discount given to 80-euro sessions which were the price for the future sessions without any expectations of extra payments.

I would like to share some of my tactics and strategy with you and other readers as follows and perhaps they would help you and other readers lower the cost of your future meeting.

1. Advertise yourself as a multi-millionaire with a lot of financial promises to potential sugarbabies.

2. Always insist to have a free coffee meeting before any sex meet.

3. Size her up during the coffee meeting to estimate how much she would accept for the first meet.

4. Always promise her in the coffee meeting you will see her on a regular basis and pay her more if sex is good, but first sex meet is only for getting familiar with each other and seeing how compatible you are sex-wide, so you only want to pay the price for one-hour meeting. For example, if the price in your area is $600 per meet which usually last 3-4 hours, you only want one-hour meet and pay $200 (or lower depends on your estimate of her in the coffee meeting) for the first sex meet.

And so on.

If you or any other readers are interested to know more tricks, I will be happy to post in my next post.

One thing is very important for any reader who is interested in getting into this sugarbaby business. If you want to get better prices like one-hour meet price I mentioned above or even get any sex meeting, you have to be doable in her eyes and with some sophistication.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2369598]There is nothing in your post which is impossible. Bandwidth? Moore's laws continuation with the new 3 the circuitry, predominantly using nanotubes will solve that problem.

100 wires? Try thousands of wires, or millions, and mathematical geometrics to fine tune it. [/QUOTE]I didn't say it was impossible. I said it was impossible within 10 years. As for whether some people will, someday, want to have millions of wires implanted into their brains just so they can enhance masturbation . . . well it takes all kinds I suppose.