Filipinas - Opinions and Advice

[QUOTE=Bill Buxton]If you wanna act an ass and whack everything that walks. [/QUOTE]
This describes a lot of us on this board….we are promiscuous or the term of endearment mongers.

[QUOTE=Bill Buxton]Could be that's why they seem to migrate here. [/QUOTE] I don’t know what type of guys would move here or anywhere for pussy only.

[QUOTE=Born Loser 5]Being from a developing country, i have many advantages over the developed nations mongers.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Born Loser 5]IRS is on their tail for lifelong, they cant get enough generic medicine, can't buy over the counter drugs, can't eat rice all the time, need AC all night long to sleep, eating burger all year long would be expensive, most need car, most of them need a maid, they need to have insurance for everything for UK folks medical is free yet taxes are high, they cant live on vegetarian food all year long. [/QUOTE]

IRS:

I earn my money overseas and I live overseas so I am tax exempt up to $80,000 and a lot of other Americans I know are also. If you stay out of the US for 330 days you qualify for this.

[url]http://www.escapeartist.com/Offshore_Webhosting/Zero_Taxes_4Expats.html[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_exemption[/url]

AC:

The AC is a must. Who wants to sit inside their Manila condo or home and sweat all day?

Food:

If you grew up on cereal and oriental noodles and then managed to land a decent job why not treat yourself to some decent food every once in a while? Who wants to live off nuts and green leaves like a Rabbit just to save a few dollars? I mean if your health conscious that’s different but doing this to save money?

A Car:

In Metro a Manila a car is a financial and safety liability but it offers a priceless convenience of privacy.

Maid:

Cleans the house. Cooks, Washes and irons clothes. Washes the dishes, cuts the grass, and washes the car. I pay what I would spend on drinks in one night a month here for these services.

Insurance:

Let’s say you were hospitalized with something that was going to cost a substantial amount of money or you had an unexpected death. There are few people who have money lying around to handle this type of situation. That is why you need for insurance.

[QUOTE=Born Loser 5]Now, I'm from India, middle class, normal online job, i buy Cialis for less than 20 pesos, could eat rice all year long, sleep without A/c.... i hate A/c, i only switch it on when the girl is in my room, yet after the deed i sleep in my dining room. [/QUOTE]

I am from America’s most murderous slum. Now that I got lucky managed to land a decent job I try not to subject myself to those living conditions again. Viagra and Cialis don’t need it yet but when the dick does go limp that is my body telling me time to lay off the pussy and I usually listen.

[QUOTE=Born Loser 5]If i get life sick, i don't have to pay 500 dollars to get 911 emergency ambulance, i could get admitted for free in a government hospital addmittedly with a crappy service, yet i will live for another day. [/QUOTE]

America’s hospitals for the poor are shit and the treatment one receives especially if you are the wrong color is shameful but I won’t go into that now.

[QUOTE=Born Loser 5]I admit living in India is hard.... very hard and it is corrupt, [/QUOTE]
What you do think the American ghettos are like?

[QUOTE=Born Loser 5] i hear from folks from west and then whining to the end about how much one should spend, [/QUOTE]

Not I. I would never tell another man how to spend his money but to each his own.
[QUOTE=Born Loser 5]it made me re think on India being that bad with what goes on with folks coming from US which is the richest country in the world [/QUOTE]

Have you ever been to the States? If so have you ever hung out with poor people from the States?

[QUOTE=Born Loser 5]It just does not add up, i should be the one who should be complaining..while most of the Asians spend more freely than western folks. [/QUOTE]

Not really. You said you work online. Some of us go to more extremes for a salary so one who earns his money in a difficult manner would be wise to spend it more judiciously. I watch foreign guys from developing countries spend money like water all the time and vice versa but again this comes to individual habits. When I first got my job I bought everything expensive and shiny that came to my mind but I am becoming more frugal the last few years I guess it is what you could call growing up.

[QUOTE=Born Loser 5]You will know there is so much info on the net you don't need a doctor for most of the STD's :D[/QUOTE]

Have no plans of catching STDs…. Crown condoms.

[QUOTE=Born Loser 5]Why not move some of your money to Asian country, enjoy on 8% interest on your deposit and spend more money on what you love. [/QUOTE]

Move my hard earned money to the unstable governments of third world countries? No thank you.

[QUOTE=Yellow Fever #2]SE,

I am surprised there were not more comments from the forum regarding your post....
[/QUOTE]
Because YF I think the board is just tired of the old… “Man meets hooker, man falls in love with hooker“Scenario. These guys know its goes against everything that is ingrained that is why they come here and ask for advice. First thing who wants to marry some used and abused pussy? Second thing who wants to marry a woman who probably has the intelligence of a western 13 year old?

If you must find a wife here. How about trying to meet some women in the gyms or going to those archaic halls of human masses… Churches. Just simply a woman who has a college degree and is away from that “selling ass” lifestyle.

I would even go a step a further and say if you’re looking for a wife one would be best found in a your native country…She doesn’t has to be the same race as one prominent racist member of the PI board keeps stressing to me but the same economic social status as yourself would be nice. A woman who has something to offer other than looks companionship and sex.

When you trade that bargirl/third world woman for a western woman you may gain one who is simple, beautiful, docile (puts up with your bullshit, which is why most of us are divorced from western women) and affectionate but in most cases you will lose financial assistance, someone who can understand you….mentally, emotionally and physically, basically a person who is your equal. These third world first world relationships tend to border on institutionalized prostitution.

[QUOTE=FreebieFan]Have a chat mate in a southern city. Think shes 22. 4th year nursing student. Used to look great in a bikini, but haven't seen her latest bikini pic in a while.

Anyways were chatting today, and her bf has recently been killed. He was working in security in Iraq.

Totally loveless and in total need of a GOOD bf.

If there are any contenders, send me PM. But I will not pass on her name to you, unless you can categorically state that you are not a player. She needs a stable guy. Now its highly likely that there are none around. This I understand.[/QUOTE]So I wrote this yesterday. And one guy contacted me.

His ym name is Marco at home. And what did the sad fellow with the brain of a pygmy do... but contact the girl, copy and paste my entire post then ask her if shes lonely.

Maybe Im not the brightest match in the box, but even I could have seen that a significantly better approach would have been to contact the girl with a smart unusual funny chat line, get chatting and then let her tell him how she was loveless.
But oh no pygmy brain Marco ( who maybe at home but whos brain is clearly not on ) embarassed me , and her with his cut and paste skills.

A plonker of the first order is the kindest way to describe him.

An absolute tosser is another. Reading this Marco.?

India is a very stable 3rd world country and for a corrupt country, it has exceptionally well regulated capital markets. You cannot not be in Indian stocks this century. Not China, India.

China has instituted the death penalty for economic crimes and as of this year it applies to d u i homicide.

Warbucks (aka D'etat, aka Illogic) this is the Filipinas thread, so why you yakking away about shitholes in the good ole usa?

Sidenote: I voted for Obama, hope he get's that health plan rolling, hope, hope hope, all kinds of shit.... what you hopping for man?

"endearment monger"? Somehow I don't think that is in your often quoted Urban dictionary. I hate the word "monger" anyway. Fishmonger? I'm a lover of fine women regardless of how I aquire them.

Also, you never have to allude to me in some backhanded way like you did when you were talking about Filipinas in Japan. Why? Just say X MAN, its a friggin anonymous name anyway. In the message I quoted below, you allude to someone else who seems to have made racists comments to you. That wasn't me, obviously, but how the hell would anyone else know that. Try to be fair, even if you hate me.

X


[QUOTE=Warbucks]This describes a lot of us on this board….we are promiscuous or the term of endearment mongers.

I don’t know what type of guys would move here or anywhere for pussy only.





IRS:

I earn my money overseas and I live overseas so I am tax exempt up to $80,000 and a lot of other Americans I know are also. If you stay out of the US for 330 days you qualify for this.

[url]http://www.escapeartist.com/Offshore_Webhosting/Zero_Taxes_4Expats.html[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_exemption[/url]

AC:

The AC is a must. Who wants to sit inside their Manila condo or home and sweat all day?

Food:

If you grew up on cereal and oriental noodles and then managed to land a decent job why not treat yourself to some decent food every once in a while? Who wants to live off nuts and green leaves like a Rabbit just to save a few dollars? I mean if your health conscious that’s different but doing this to save money?

A Car:

In Metro a Manila a car is a financial and safety liability but it offers a priceless convenience of privacy.

Maid:

Cleans the house. Cooks, Washes and irons clothes. Washes the dishes, cuts the grass, and washes the car. I pay what I would spend on drinks in one night a month here for these services.

Insurance:

Let’s say you were hospitalized with something that was going to cost a substantial amount of money or you had an unexpected death. There are few people who have money lying around to handle this type of situation. That is why you need for insurance.



I am from America’s most murderous slum. Now that I got lucky managed to land a decent job I try not to subject myself to those living conditions again. Viagra and Cialis don’t need it yet but when the dick does go limp that is my body telling me time to lay off the pussy and I usually listen.



America’s hospitals for the poor are shit and the treatment one receives especially if you are the wrong color is shameful but I won’t go into that now.


What you do think the American ghettos are like?



Not I. I would never tell another man how to spend his money but to each his own.


Have you ever been to the States? If so have you ever hung out with poor people from the States?



Not really. You said you work online. Some of us go to more extremes for a salary so one who earns his money in a difficult manner would be wise to spend it more judiciously. I watch foreign guys from developing countries spend money like water all the time and vice versa but again this comes to individual habits. When I first got my job I bought everything expensive and shiny that came to my mind but I am becoming more frugal the last few years I guess it is what you could call growing up.



Have no plans of catching STDs…. Crown condoms.



Move my hard earned money to the unstable governments of third world countries? No thank you.


Because YF I think the board is just tired of the old… “Man meets hooker, man falls in love with hooker“Scenario. These guys know its goes against everything that is ingrained that is why they come here and ask for advice. First thing who wants to marry some used and abused pussy? Second thing who wants to marry a woman who probably has the intelligence of a western 13 year old?

If you must find a wife here. How about trying to meet some women in the gyms or going to those archaic halls of human masses… Churches. Just simply a woman who has a college degree and is away from that “selling ass” lifestyle.

I would even go a step a further and say if you’re looking for a wife one would be best found in a your native country…She doesn’t has to be the same race as one prominent racist member of the PI board keeps stressing to me but the same economic social status as yourself would be nice. A woman who has something to offer other than looks companionship and sex.

When you trade that bargirl/third world woman for a western woman you may gain one who is simple, beautiful, docile (puts up with your bullshit, which is why most of us are divorced from western women) and affectionate but in most cases you will lose financial assistance, someone who can understand you….mentally, emotionally and physically, basically a person who is your equal. These third world first world relationships tend to border on institutionalized prostitution.[/QUOTE]

what the hell is this place coming to now. what do poor people living in the states have to do with people here and this country? why do ghettos and insurance and taxes come into play here on this thread?

poor people in the states, that's a joke any-who. with all the people in this country the ones in the states are treated like kings on the welfare program. if the people here could get what the [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url]-pots in the states get they would never udder a peep out of there mouths.

hospitals in the states please, people get treated for free now that's why i or we pay up the ass for insurance. we pay so the mope with can get treated no questions asked that's a fact.

color don't have a thing to do with this its not a factor at all.

ac is not a a staple that's needed in a daily diet here. if you sit in a manila apartment every day you failed to plan ahead. most need something to do besides sit and drink. yes drink, most follow this path because they have nothing to do all day its a fact. start a business and employ some locals you will never need to go to ac ever again. the locals will be happy and you can build some respect between you and them.

the short answer is life is cheaper here in most cases, and we all loose sight of the big picture. after a while 20-p seems like big bucks and we all have fallen in that trap.

b. b.

[QUOTE=SmartEuropean]The point is that I am planning to marry a babe met in a bar in Angeles. And my question is: is that a good idea or not?[/QUOTE]Bad[QUOTE=SmartEuropean]I have considered very well the days I spent with her and I found her very nice and sweet and caring. So, since I am planning to marry again anyway and I have just closed with my gf here, I am considering this option too.[/QUOTE]WTF? You are divorced, have just broken up with a girl and now you want to get hitched again... smacks forehead with hand.. am i reading this right?[QUOTE=SmartEuropean]About her: she is about 25 years younger. She never asked me money in Angeles nor later. I never asked her to leave her job there. Few weeks after I was back home, she left the bar life because of some arguing with her mamasan and colleagues.[/QUOTE]They all do this when they think they have a ticket out of bar scene (& the the country).[QUOTE=SmartEuropean]At the moment she works as a nanny.[/QUOTE]You need to confirm this brother.[QUOTE=SmartEuropean]And when I spoke to her of my idea she said it is fine.[/QUOTE]I'll bet she bloody did sport! Her & her 37 cousins...[QUOTE=SmartEuropean]And, what is very important to me, agreed to have no kids, since I do not want any troubles with the ones I already have.[/QUOTE]That will not last long after you arrive with her back in your home country. They _all_ want babies.[QUOTE=SmartEuropean]About me: my financial position is not great but good enough to support her in the first period. She wants to work and she is ready to be a nanny here too, the sort of job for a girl like her can easily find in this part of the world. Of course I like her a lot and I had the time to see that she can be a good partner, too.[/QUOTE]I suggest you go back to PI & live with her for a good six months _first_ before you make any hasty commitments you're likely to regret bitterly later.[QUOTE=SmartEuropean]In these three months we exchanged few very nice mails and phone calls. When I told her about my plan, she honestly and openly told me her story: an usual story of this kind of situation. She also added she had already been in Angeles years ago for few months. She left the bar because of a Westerner guy who promised her everything and gave her money to go to school again and then suddenly disappeared. And she also told me of a former Pilipino boyfriend who deceived her.[/QUOTE]Absolutely standard story, no shocks here. So what is so special... nevermind...[QUOTE=SmartEuropean]In few days we are meeting again (I am going to Philippines again after few days spent in Thailand) to speak seriously about this matter.[/QUOTE]Hope you didn't pick up anything in Thailand she hasn't already got.. ;)[QUOTE=SmartEuropean]My idea is to marry in late 2011 and also to make her signing a very clear pre-marriage agreement with possible divorce conditions.[/QUOTE]I hope you are not thinking of getting married in PI? Getting married in PI precludes divorce as an option for all but the wealthiest & most well connected guys who escape with an annulment.[QUOTE=SmartEuropean]Now your turn. Feel free, but serious, please. Thanks a lot, SE[/QUOTE]Sorry if I seem cynical but I see the endless conga line of foreigners with bar girls lining up to go volunteer to pay alimony for the rest of their lives so much.. I really see your mind is made up. All the best to you & your intended.. good luck with that plan SE.

[QUOTE=Yellow Fever #2]SE,

I am surprised there were not more comments from the forum regarding your post. I hope that other members can add their opinions too.

I really doubt you will ever leave mongering. It was only a thought. I don't think I could ever leave mongering either.

Your difference this time, compared to your past European gfs and wife, is that your PI girls KNOWS you are a monger. She will have her radar tuned to you but I hope she will also know not to rock the boat.

In fact they are bar girls, we are their customers. We are not much different from them.

Good luck in your adventure.

Yellow Fever[/QUOTE]I am surprised too that there are not more comments about my post. But, as you see, there are few more. Maybe, it is not an interesting talk as we might guess.

I agree. I doubt I will ever leave mongering. It is not my plan nor my will but I am afraid it will happen anyway. I just spoke of the fact that, IMHO, it might become less satisfactory with age going on (condom, for example is a burden which becomes heavier and heavier). But I am speaking of something I do not know. I know about I feel NOW and I know what I can do now as well, so maybe, the older I am the most I monger.

You are absolutely right. I did not think to this side and I thank you for this. My PI girl knows I am a monger and so it will be quite difficult to deceive her. And this is the bad point.

The good point. In general and in my story, exactly as you say (they are bar girls, we are their customers. We are not much different from them). Is that she already knows the "dark side" of life and of men. She has experienced them both personally and so – maybe but not sure – she can "see and understand" and be a good companion because she will not blame for my weakness. And she can also be good a good partner because she has decided to leave that behind her. Of course, maybe it is not like that. Who knows?

SE

[QUOTE=FreebieFan]The mongering deadline.? I truly hope there isn't one.

I remember once sitting in an Angeles bar, and next to be was an old bloke. Must have been 80+. Had 2-3 pretty girls with him telling him he was handsome. (better than hearing " "Oh Sir, you are so wrinkly LOL ")

I asked him why he was there.

He said " Son, I can't get it up any more BUT my eyes still work and my brain still works and I can still imagine how great it would be to be with these young ladies. "

And thats why I hope theres no mongering deadline. Imagine saying " Game Over.[/QUOTE]The point is not what we hope about the mongering deadline. The point is how we feel and are. And it is strictly personal. About your nice story about the 80+ guy you talked about. IMHO it is not a nice view nor thought. Once again I repeat that I am not boasting to be better or to judge others. I just underline we are different and I am speaking of myself only. And in my 80+ (if I ever reach them) I do not see myself like that in Angeles or anywhere. Much better, IMHO, to imagine myself playing with my grandchildren, having a nice life hopefully near a lady who is not a nightmare to look at and who is spending her time with me not only for the money I am paying (we always pay). And who is not telling me I am handsome but different sort of lies, the sort of lies you can more easily believe at that age. And, if I really need and want that, I can have it anyway in my town, for the same money if you consider how much you spend for flights and hotels and restaurants. Mongering all over the world is not cheap, it is fun, because if you add the general expenses, we spend a lot more than a normal 60 minutes session in Western Countries. So I do not see it as a “Game Over”, but just playing another game. Once again, a game which is maybe more suitable for me and not for others. IMHO.

SE

Perhaps you should change your name to Not So Smart European.

[QUOTE=Puerto La Cruz]Perhaps you should change your name to Not So Smart European.[/QUOTE]
Most of bargirls will tell you what you want to hear. For that matter most of the other girls will do the same to find a sponsor, escape from poverty, get out of their country etc.
None of it has to do with love.
Almost all the bargirls came to AC to work in the bars because of poverty. Yet to see a girl who is there for fun only. The mamasans who recruit them tell them they can meet a foreigner, marry etc. After opening their legs for many and lied and duped by many they realise the truth about AC. Yes, there are some who may have found better life but they are in minority.
All of us go to AC for fun, to be with as many girls as possible, drink, listen to sob stories and sometimes donate extra money to them.
We are not there to look for a GF, rescue them etc. No matter what a good sex with a willing girl makes our mind think otherwise.
Unless you live in that country I believe supporting a gf, marrying and having kids should be out of bounds. Besides if you live there why go with a bargirl?
There are plenty of normal girls available.

[quote=smarteuropean]
the point is that (maybe i am stupid and naive) i do not consider her a real bar girl.
[/quote]
what do you consider to be a “real bar girl?” this girl sold pussy in a bar that makes her a real bargirl there is no qualifying period and quantity of pussy sold in order to gain bar girl certification. see her for what she is and either accept or reject her but don’t fool yourself.
[quote=smarteuropean]
second, i do not see why she should be pregnant if she takes pills.
[/quote]
if you are depending on her to take pills consistently it means that you’re turning over the choice of having children or not to her. she makes the decision of having children or not so you’re already fucked. that is the way it is in the eyes of the law. take responsibility for your future and get those old wrinkled balls snipped! have result for your vasectomy confirmed with a lab test showing that your semen contains no sperm.
[quote=smarteuropean]
for yf. well, to be honest, i feel to trust her but this idea of the prenup is what you might call a safety net which is better to have than to have not. this has to do with my general attitude, which is very cautious. i doubt myself? of course. who knows what happens tomorrow? you know the saying? act as you should die tomorrow and think as you should live forever.
[/quote]
the best laid plans of mice and men… your prenuptial agreement will probably be more useful as an ass wipe once your filipina and her attorney play the ignorant foreign [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901][CodeWord901][/url] vs. the old pervert. according to you, your financial position is not all that good. transfer whatever inheritance you intend to give your children to them now. you can place any real property in their name giving yourself the right to occupy it until your death. liquid assets can be placed in a trust with money being paid out to you quarterly. in other words strip yourself of all assets before marrying. this will leave you free to play the fool. it will also keep your kids from being pissed off at your antics.
[quote=smarteuropean]
still to be honest, i am not totally sure to leave mongering for this simple girl. it is what i have done even in my previous (normal) marriage and what i have done in my "single" years, even if i had most of the time a good and stable relationship with european girls. i think that i might diminish my mongering but i also consider how nice it might be to come back from my "job trip" and find a sweet babe at home waiting for me. last but not least, i am not getting any younger and my mongering dead line is approaching anyway. and so just "travelling" with her should be nice. but stay with her in the pi is quite impossible. first because i still have here a job, a good job i cannot move abroad and then, after my retiring, all my life, my friends and my sons are still here. and i do not want to leave them.
[/quote]
since you intend to keep fucking around i imagine that you have no expectation of fidelity on her part. this is good because she will have many young lovers back in europe whether or not you object. having an open marriage will make things easier on both parties versus sneaking around and using deception.

understand that as you do not want to leave your family and friends she will experience similar emotions.

[QUOTE=Amavida]BadWTF? You are divorced, have just broken up with a girl and now you want to get hitched again. Smacks forehead with hand. Am I reading this right? They all do this when they think they have a ticket out of bar scene (& the the country). You need to confirm this brother. I'll bet she bloody did sport! Her & her 37 cousins. That will not last long after you arrive with her back in your home country. They _all_ want babies. I suggest you go back to PI & live with her for a good six months _first_ before you make any hasty commitments you're likely to regret bitterly later. Absolutely standard story, no shocks here. So what is so special. Nevermind. Hope you didn't pick up anything in Thailand she hasn't already got. I hope you are not thinking of getting married in PI? Getting married in PI precludes divorce as an option for all but the wealthiest & most well connected guys who escape with an annulment. Sorry if I seem cynical but I see the endless conga line of foreigners with bar girls lining up to go volunteer to pay alimony for the rest of their lives so much. I really see your mind is made up. All the best to you & your intended. Good luck with that plan SE.[/QUOTE]I really appreciated all your lines, starting from the Austen quotation. You have been very smart and amusing and maybe a bit cynical, which I consider part of being smart and amusing. All right. Bad idea. Going on, yes, sorry, I like it. Being hitched. IMO the best is to have a stable and permanent relationship to have all the fun and feelings with her (what is called GF experience, correct? ) and then my extra fun mongering. I thank you for the tip about the fact that they all do this "when they think they have a ticket out.". But when she did it we did not speak of plans nor future. But she can have a glass ball and see what I am going to do before I do it, or, maybe, she just knows men and she was expecting my step. Correct. No real evidence she is working as a nanny, now. But it sounds true from a number of details. Hehe. I hope her cousins are just 25. Correct again. Babies is the big, real obstacle and I do not know, a part pills or my vasectomy (which I do not like at all), what to do to be safe about that. Correct again. Going back to PI & live with her for a six months is a good idea. Unfortunately I cannot. I have to work here. I know that her story is absolutely standard and I imagined that from my report it was very clear that I considered it liek that. About Thailand, I usually take care of myself. Anyway, thanks a lot for you tip. No, thanks, never thought of getting married in PI. If I will ever do that, I will marry in my Country with my rules. Yes, you got the point. My only fear is not that this story may not work (if it does not, too bad, life goes on anyway). My goal is to "try" hoping for the best and, at the same time, avoid to alimony to her after divorce or support a children I did not want. Understand? And I am thinking to the way to do that. And I know it is not easy. Anyway, thanks for your smack on my forehead and for your nice comment.

SE

[QUOTE=Puerto La Cruz]Perhaps you should change your name to Not So Smart European.[/QUOTE]When I invited to comment my post, I also asked to speak open but to be serious. And I am sorry that, IMHO, your comment (joke) is not so funny nor new.

SE

@FreebieFan;
Please clear my name, as I am afraid some may think of me as the guy contacting you regarding this lady, which I have not. my chat names (YM & MS) all have marconista (and sometimes more added to it).

I hope to keep my reputation as clean as it can be in this environment :D

Thanks

[QUOTE=FreebieFan]So I wrote this yesterday. And one guy contacted me.

His ym name is Marco at home. And what did the sad fellow with the brain of a pygmy do... but contact the girl, copy and paste my entire post then ask her if shes lonely....................

But oh no pygmy brain Marco ( who maybe at home but whos brain is clearly not on ) embarassed me , and her with his cut and paste skills.

A plonker of the first order is the kindest way to describe him.

An absolute tosser is another. Reading this Marco.?[/QUOTE]

S.E., I suggest the Norplant or Implanon (that´s what they are called here in Peru), which are birth control devices implanted under the skin in the arm. Good up to three years and have the added plus of just about stopping menstruation completely.