Safe Sex and Sex Related Discussions in Thailand

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2044521]Btw, to your opening question, the reason a Thai girl will ask if you have a condom EVEN THOUGH she is or will be just fine with engaging in BBFS with you is to 'save face', to make it at least appear to you that she is not necessarily agreeable to going BB with every customer. Just you. lol.[/QUOTE]I think they ask if you have a condom because it spares them the hassle and expense of re-supply, and are more likely to be an appropriate fit.

If you do have your own they typically examine them to make sure they are of decent quality.

SL.

[QUOTE=Bkkdog;2044600]I'm sorry but you are dead wrong. Asking where to find BBFS is not a topic that belongs on the safe sex thread. It does not belong anywhere on the board.[/QUOTE]Actually, it is highly debatable what the guidelines are really saying about discussions of BBFS. In fact, it would be helpful if the administrators clarified what they say about it in the guidelines:

[[NO Safe Sex Complaints.

No Safe Sex Complaints Forum Members wishing to criticize other Members for not following what they consider to be safe sex procedures may do so only in the Safe Sex Thread. Members may not comment upon, criticize or confront other members on this subject in the general discussion threads. Any such "safe sex complaints" posted in the general discussion threads will be deleted without comment. However.

No Safe Sex Bragging Members may not repeatedly post about or otherwise taunt other Members regarding their refusal to follow safe sex procedures. Specifically, references to having sex without a condom may be made only by incidental reference and shall not be the focus of any report. Such "safe sex taunting" reports will be deleted without comment.

If you want to criticize another member for not following what you consider to be safe sex practices, then send him a PM.

It does no good to criticize members for not following what other members may consider to be safe sex practices for the following reasons:

1. It never serves to change any one's behavior.

2. It's a disincentive for members to contribute.

3. It almost always leads to arguments.

4. It provides a "cover" for Serial Antagonists to provoke other members.

To address the usual arguments:

1. If a guy wants to engage in sex without using a condom, that's his risk and his business.

2. If a girl wants to engage in sex without using a condom, that's her risk and her business.

3. If YOU want to protect yourself from either or both of the aforementioned parties, then YOU should use a condom for sex all the time and thus YOU will be protected from the allegedly unsafe sex practices of the other parties. ]].

BACK TO ME AGAIN:

I draw your attention to the one and only sentence in the entire write-up about safe sex "complaints, taunting, and bragging" that could possibly be construed to mean it is not ok to discuss BBFS or make it the focus of a report:

"No Safe Sex Bragging Members may not repeatedly post about or otherwise taunt other Members regarding their refusal to follow safe sex procedures. [B]Specifically, references to having sex without a condom may be made only by incidental reference and shall not be the focus of any report.[/B] Such "safe sex taunting" reports will be deleted without comment. ".

That being the ONLY sentence that could possibly be construed to mean what you say it means while virtually every other word of the lengthy guideline is about telling YOU not to do what you are posting about here, I submit that the administrators could actually have meant YOUR references to someone having sex without a condom may only be made by incidental reference and shall not be the focus of any report. Otherwise, it falls under their definition of "complaining" or "taunting" other posters about it.

Frankly, it makes little sense to chastise posters attempting to do what you are doing right here and now, Bkkdog, in 99.9% of the administrators' entire statement on what constitutes "Safe Sex Complaints, Taunting and Bragging" and then plop that one out of sync sentence in there to mean what you say it means. Particularly when you consider the sentence that comes immediately before it and immediately after it. I think they are talking about YOU not devoting an entire post to "Safe Sex Complaints, Taunting and Bragging" as it is described and defined in virtually every other sentence, phrase and word of that rather lengthy guideline on the topic.

Even if that one and only somewhat non sequitur sentence in the guidelines means posting about having BBFS somewhere with someone should not be done to "taunt" others who do follow conventional safe sex procedures (and I think you have to twist and turn around virtually everything else said on the subject in the guidelines in order to reach that conclusion), I don't see where anyone is doing that here and can't remember ever reading such a post on this forum.

If I am wrong about my reading of it, I welcome a clarification by the administrators any time, please. Until and unless they do, Bkkdog, I think it is just as reasonable to conclude the guidelines are actually telling YOU to stop complaining and taunting other posters about their refusal to practice safe sex and especially telling YOU not to devote an entire report to such complaining and taunting as it is to conclude they are telling us what you think it means.

[QUOTE=Sunlover2;2044644]I think they ask if you have a condom because it spares them the hassle and expense of re-supply, and are more likely to be an appropriate fit.

If you do have your own they typically examine them to make sure they are of decent quality.

SL.[/QUOTE]Yes, I agree with you on that point in the case where the girl will not proceed with FS unless someone produces a condom. But I was talking about the girls who ask if you have one and if you say no and they don't have one they just say oh ok, shrug it off and proceed with intimate behavior that leads to FS anyway.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2044658]Actually, it is highly debatable what the guidelines are really saying about discussions of BBFS. In fact, it would be helpful if the administrators clarified what they say about it in the guidelines:

[[NO Safe Sex Complaints.

No Safe Sex Complaints Forum Members wishing to criticize other Members for not following what they consider to be safe sex procedures may do so only in the Safe Sex Thread. Members may not comment upon, criticize or confront other members on this subject in the general discussion threads. Any such "safe sex complaints" posted in the general discussion threads will be deleted without comment. However.

No Safe Sex Bragging Members may not repeatedly post about or otherwise taunt other Members regarding their refusal to follow safe sex procedures. Specifically, references to having sex without a condom may be made only by incidental reference and shall not be the focus of any report. Such "safe sex taunting" reports will be deleted without comment.

If you want to criticize another member for not following what you consider to be safe sex practices, then send him a PM.

It does no good to criticize members for not following what other members may consider to be safe sex practices for the following reasons:

1. It never serves to change any one's behavior.

2. It's a disincentive for members to contribute.

3. It almost always leads to arguments.

4. It provides a "cover" for Serial Antagonists to provoke other members.

To address the usual arguments:

1. If a guy wants to engage in sex without using a condom, that's his risk and his business.

2. If a girl wants to engage in sex without using a condom, that's her risk and her business.

3. If YOU want to protect yourself from either or both of the aforementioned parties, then YOU should use a condom for sex all the time and thus YOU will be protected from the allegedly unsafe sex practices of the other parties. ]].

BACK TO ME AGAIN:

I draw your attention to the one and only sentence in the entire write-up about safe sex "complaints, taunting, and bragging" that could possibly be construed to mean it is not ok to discuss BBFS or make it the focus of a report:

"No Safe Sex Bragging Members may not repeatedly post about or otherwise taunt other Members regarding their refusal to follow safe sex procedures. [B]Specifically, references to having sex without a condom may be made only by incidental reference and shall not be the focus of any report.[/B] Such "safe sex taunting" reports will be deleted without comment. ".

That being the ONLY sentence that could possibly be construed to mean what you say it means while virtually every other word of the lengthy guideline is about telling YOU not to do what you are posting about here, I submit that the administrators could actually have meant YOUR references to someone having sex without a condom may only be made by incidental reference and shall not be the focus of any report. Otherwise, it falls under their definition of "complaining" or "taunting" other posters about it.

Frankly, it makes little sense to chastise posters attempting to do what you are doing right here and now, Bkkdog, in 99.9% of the administrators' entire statement on what constitutes "Safe Sex Complaints, Taunting and Bragging" and then plop that one out of sync sentence in there to mean what you say it means. Particularly when you consider the sentence that comes immediately before it and immediately after it. I think they are talking about YOU not devoting an entire post to "Safe Sex Complaints, Taunting and Bragging" as it is described and defined in virtually every other sentence, phrase and word of that rather lengthy guideline on the topic.

Even if that one and only somewhat non sequitur sentence in the guidelines means posting about having BBFS somewhere with someone should not be done to "taunt" others who do follow conventional safe sex procedures (and I think you have to twist and turn around virtually everything else said on the subject in the guidelines in order to reach that conclusion), I don't see where anyone is doing that here and can't remember ever reading such a post on this forum.

If I am wrong about my reading of it, I welcome a clarification by the administrators any time, please. Until and unless they do, Bkkdog, I think it is just as reasonable to conclude the guidelines are actually telling YOU to stop complaining and taunting other posters about their refusal to practice safe sex and especially telling YOU not to devote an entire report to such complaining and taunting as it is to conclude they are telling us what you think it means.[/QUOTE]You totally missed the point. This thread is not for askimg where to find BBFS, it is for discussing safe sex. If one does this, it will start heated discussions about safe sex in the normal mongering threads. I swear, some of you really need to RTFF amd understand the posts.

[QUOTE=Bkkdog;2044695]You totally missed the point. This thread is not for askimg where to find BBFS, it is for discussing safe sex. If one does this, it will start heated discussions about safe sex in the normal mongering threads. I swear, some of you really need to RTFF amd understand the posts.[/QUOTE]Then, according to my reading of those guidelines, BBFS discussions are acceptable in the regular threads, even discussions about where to find it. Therefore, no one should be telling posters who post about BBFS on the regular threads that they should "Take it to the Safe Sex thread" or anywhere else for that matter.

However, complaining and taunting other posters for posting about their not following so-called safe sex practices is not acceptable on any threads here, including this one. Would you agree?

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2044709]However, complaining and taunting other posters for posting about their not following so-called safe sex practices is not acceptable on any threads here, including this one. Would you agree?[/QUOTE]

From the FAQ: "Members wishing to criticize other Members for not following what they consider to be safe sex procedures [B]may do so only in the Safe Sex Thread.[/B]". So, criticizing people for their unsafe sex is specifically allowed on this thread.

As far as I understand the FAQ, what you may not do anywhere is brag about unsafe sex (or call out others for doing it).

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2044779]From the FAQ: "Members wishing to criticize other Members for not following what they consider to be safe sex procedures [B]may do so only in the Safe Sex Thread.[/B]". So, criticizing people for their unsafe sex is specifically allowed on this thread.

As far as I understand the FAQ, what you may not do anywhere is brag about unsafe sex (or call out others for doing it).[/QUOTE]Again, this is where the administrators would be helpful to clarify. In this case, it depends on the difference between "criticizing" and this:

"Members may not repeatedly post about or otherwise taunt other Members regarding their refusal to follow safe sex procedures. "

Is more than one such taunting post within a 24 hour period considered "repeatedly"? Within a week? Occasionally? When does criticizing turn into complaining and taunting?

I might argue that asserting, and especially more than once, that asking where to find BBFS is a topic that does not belong anywhere on the board is already a form of excessive criticism or taunting on the subject since there is no such restriction listed in the guidelines about that.

[QUOTE=Bkkdog;2044159]"Safe sex thread" is not the place to talk about where to get bareback FS. It is the place to discuss the risks of bareback FS and how to practice safe sex and risks imvolived if you don't.[/QUOTE]Correct, this thread is not the place to talk about where to get bareback FS and I never said it was. It is indeed the place to discuss the risks of bareback FS. But people who bareback and think those risks are often exaggerated should also be allowed to contribute to the discussion. That's all I was trying to say.

[QUOTE=Bkkdog;2044159]If you click on the original post of Parkville's, the subject line which you can't see when I quoted him is where to find BBFS. [/QUOTE]All that Parkville is saying in his post, is that BBFS is easier to get in Pattaya than in Bangkok. It's very general, he doesn't mention specific bars, agogo's or other places.

[QUOTE=Mogwai;2044872]All that Parkville is saying in his post, is that BBFS is easier to get in Pattaya than in Bangkok. It's very general, he doesn't mention specific bars, agogo's or other places.[/QUOTE]Yes, that is all he did really. Followed by some posts that imo went somewhat further than mere criticizing. Safe Sex fans could use that information as a reason to avoid one place or another due to its possibly being populated by more providers engaging in BBFS, I suppose. That would be true of any discussion of BBFS that includes "where to find it". Safe Sex fans ought to welcome such discussions since it tells them of places and venues to avoid.

However, in reply to his observation I must say my experience has been the exact opposite of Parkville's. Dramatically so.

Same with a genuine CIM finish for a BBBJ. I have found that much easier to get and from much better looking girls in Bangkok than in Pattaya. Fully appropriate to this thread, the CDC has assessed the likelihood of acquiring HIV from receiving a blowjob to be so tiny it doesn't even warrant one single digit chance in 10,000 BJ experiences with HIV-positive providers.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2044901]Fully appropriate to this thread, the CDC has assessed the likelihood of acquiring HIV from receiving a blowjob to be so tiny it doesn't even warrant one single digit chance in 10,000 BJ experiences with HIV-positive providers.[/QUOTE]I'd be more worried about herpes from blowjobs. I've read in some medical papers that having one form of herpes could prevent you from contracting the other one, like having mouth herpes was a good predictor of not getting genital herpes and vice versa. To complicate matters, it also depended on whether you have HSP1 or HSP2 as both can infect mouth or genitals. The medical litterature is difficult to disentangle. I'd be interested to know more about this as I have cold sores (HSP 1 normally but I never had that ckecked). As a former member of barebacker's anonymous, it's the genital variant I should have got.

[QUOTE=XXL;2045141]I'd be more worried about herpes from blowjobs. I've read in some medical papers that having one form of herpes could prevent you from contracting the other one, like having mouth herpes was a good predictor of not getting genital herpes and vice versa. To complicate matters, it also depended on whether you have HSP1 or HSP2 as both can infect mouth or genitals. The medical litterature is difficult to disentangle. I'd be interested to know more about this as I have cold sores (HSP 1 normally but I never had that ckecked). As a former member of barebacker's anonymous, it's the genital variant I should have got.[/QUOTE]If you code an abbreviation, you want to think about its meaning and preferably expand it the first time.

E. g. HSV1 or 2 (Herpes Simplex Virus Types 1 or 2) or HPV (Human Papilloma Virus. Many different strains).

Now HSP1 and 2, I think that is meaningless to most of us. We can only guess you intended HSV-1 and HSV-2.

Not sure if this is the correct thread, but let's see.

So I'm looking to have safe bareback sex in Pattaya, meaning to find a couple girls to spend the week or so, get tested and be safe.

Anyone have info if this is a working plan?

How much time does it take to get the results and where could one get those done?

[QUOTE=DudesOnTre;2094770]Not sure if this is the correct thread, but let's see.

So I'm looking to have safe bareback sex in Pattaya, meaning to find a couple girls to spend the week or so, get tested and be safe.

Anyone have info if this is a working plan?

How much time does it take to get the results and where could one get those done?[/QUOTE]Unfortunately, IMO, there is no such thing as safe bareback sex, unless you are in a monogamous relationship. You can take the route of testing the girl and yourself upon arrival in Pattaya, but that does not guarantee anything. It takes some time for the HIV virus to show up in a test.

[QUOTE=DudesOnTre;2094770]Not sure if this is the correct thread, but let's see.

So I'm looking to have safe bareback sex in Pattaya, meaning to find a couple girls to spend the week or so, get tested and be safe.

Anyone have info if this is a working plan?

How much time does it take to get the results and where could one get those done?[/QUOTE]Yes its possible if you have the right money offer, without having done that myself. Testing at Red Cross in Bangkok gets a very fast prelim result and more definitive result comes later from virus amplification procedures (if no email in x days then everything is okay - I can't remember the delay). There is never any 100% guarantee but you would get a 99% guarantee good enough, to make getting struck by lightning as comparable.

So I don't concur with Lefeu exactly, except for sure there is no 100% guarantee of anything (especially monogamy in the mongering world).

Actually the biggest risk you would face is getting girls pregnant, if all of you are pre-tested for a wide variety of diseases (a bit expensive to get all tests for 3 persons. HIV only is cheap). As example some girls use 3 month vaccination against pregnancy. Some still get pregnant. "The pill" fails when girls forget to take it or not on time.

A very significant proportion of Thai P4P girls have been accidentally pregnant, and a high proportion of those did not get an abortion for religious reasons, or because it's illegal, or because they were in denial, or unaware, etc.

[QUOTE=DudesOnTre;2094770]
So I'm looking to have safe bareback sex in Pattaya, meaning to find a couple girls to spend the week or so, get tested and be safe. Anyone have info if this is a working plan? How much time does it take to get the results and where could one get those done?
[/QUOTE]There are places where you can get tested for HIV plus Syphilis and get the results within 1 h. Red Cross clinic in Bangkok is one of them, I'm sure some exist in Pattaya too (which ones you can trust is something to consider). A few years ago, HIV tests used to only show results 3 months after exposure (in other words, you could still be HIV+ and get a negative result if you recently acquired it). Not sure how long the window is with the newer tests.

Testing for other STDs things like Gonorrhea or Chlamydia is not that quick, it takes a few days or even weeks for the results to come back. Those things are not lethal, but there are some antibiotic-resistant strains in Thailand that are not at all easy to cure.

Summary is, if you do some testing beforehand, you can be safer, but not really safe. If you have a regular partner, I wouldn't risk bringing something nasty back to them, and would stick with a condom. However, if you're single, you may well get an HIV test, do your bareback thing, and take the risk of catching something (and later curing it).

For mongering, I think an ED pill plus thin condom combination works way better (safer and more bang for the buck) than trying to concoct all kinds of schemes to decrease the risk of going bareback.