Tallinn

Idefix, there are loads.

Morgan has closed but lets see, club max, leesika, Tukri. Just ask a taxi driver

Often the best grils are inth eclubs, some doit that way for privacy the apartments are cheap and for locals

There are loads of names in the archives they are long term propositions, i dont use em as I prefer something more real though.

[blue]Does this look like deliberate disinformation to anybody else, or is it just me? This guy has posted essentially this same message 8 times, the last several with the HIV scare added at the end.

I'd like to hear from some of this section's regular posters. Is this guy legitimate or full of crap?

Thanks,

Jackson

==================================[/blue]

Hi,

Its better stay at home, and not go to former Eastern Countries. They are just after your money and its quite dangerous. Girls are not easy to get either, and prices are very high, for hotels resturants, bars and discos and whatever. For those who like hores can I say that they will be dissapointment becuase prices they will pay are much higher than home. It was different in the begining of 90, when just comunist time was over.

I've visited all baltic cities from Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania and they are all same. After being there some days you will realise you can hardly find normal girls in there.
They are all defect somehow. I think its harder to get girls in there than other Western European countries . Specially if you looking for normal girls then you are going to wrong place.

They have unrealistic ideas of the life in the west and they have a strange attittude to men. You will see all of these when you visit those countries.

People who have done the misstake and bring these girls to west to live with them will realise after a while that they have done a big misstake.

Let me know about your experience if you visit those states.

Be very very careful so you dont go back home with HIV infection becuase the HIV in population is much higher than other western coutries.

Good luck

I'm going to Estonia in May. Anyone got any rcommendations? I'm looking for younger girls, late teens, early 20s.

All Tha Stuff.

Didn¡¯t you just read the previous report? And the post before that .... and earlier reports? Some of us will never learn.

Very hard to believe any true monger that takes the postion
that western prices are not the highest in the world
and that western attitude is not the worst in the world.

Sure, of course some EE girls are greedy and cold as ice,
but after tasting and testing the GFE factor in North, South, and
Central America, and Asia, and East & West Europe, I can
say hands down that EE girls are 1000 times better.

However, its really a matter of personal taste. When you have time
and opportunity to get to the real true source of raw quality, like a
guy like Cronin in China, or that Moroccan guy, or Jackson's BA crew,
comparisons don't really apply anymore, because they have gone beyond
the "traveller's" realm. 1, 2 or even 3 weeks travelling only gives me a tiny taste of what's possible. Expat's who are lucky enough to get paid to live & work
in these places have moved to the next dimension that us travellers
never experience.

Rotting away inside the grinding race of rodents,

MM

(but counting down only 8 psychotic weeks left until its UKR-PSY time :-) !!

[blue]Does this look like deliberate disinformation to anybody else, or is it just me? This guy has posted essentially this same message 8 times, the last several with the HIV scare added at the end.

I'd like to hear from some of this section's regular posters. Is this guy legitimate or full of crap?

Thanks,

Jackson

==================================[/blue]

Hi,

Its better stay at home, and not go to former Eastern Countries. They are just after your money and its quite dangerous. Girls are not easy to get either, and prices are very high, for hotels resturants, bars and discos and whatever. For those who like hores can I say that they will be very dissapointed becuase prices they will pay are much higher than home for a bad quality with a girl with very bad attitude. It was different in the begining of 90, when just comunist time was over. It was completly different. you got quality for money and people were nice. It was amazing golden time. They were pure coutries and untouched.

I've visited all baltic cities in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania since begining of 90 and they are all same. After being there some days you will realise you can hardly find normal girls in there.

They are all defect somehow. I think its harder to get girls in there compare to Western European countries. Specially if you looking for normal girls then you are going to really wrong place.

They have unrealistic ideas of the life in the west and they have a strange attittude to men. You will see all of these when you visit those countries.

People who have done the misstake and bring these girls to west to live with them will realise after a while that they have done a big misstake.They realise too late that the most ugliest wetern girl is better than those blondies who will destroy their life later.

Let me know about your experience if you visit those states.

By the way:

Be very very careful so you dont go back home with HIV infection becuase the HIV in population is much higher than western coutries. Some reports says that the numbers are as high as some African coutries, and its growing like explosion and even European comunity is very concerned and try stop the epidemy who is growing very fast in eastern europe.

No body knows the real number of HIVs and althogh the official numbers are very high but estimated numbers of undetected HIVs are much much higher.

Good luck

[blue]Does this look like deliberate disinformation to anybody else, or is it just me? This guy has posted essentially this same message 8 times, the last several with the HIV scare added at the end.

I'd like to hear from some of this section's regular posters. Is this guy legitimate or full of crap?

Thanks,

Jackson[/blue]

I was in Tallinn two years ago (things might have changed) and the MOST BEAUSTIFUL GIRLS WERE THROWING THEMSELVES AT ME!!!!! They would try to talk English and keep me in their shop as long as possible. They would want to meet me for breakfast, lunch or dinner to try to get to know me better. And when they saw I was not going to marry them and get them a green card they wanted to take me out to show me off to all their friends. I was arm candy!!!!

This all is changing fast in these three little countries. Estonia is going to be apart of the EU So there might be some truth to what this guy is saying but some guys are so negative and unpleasant to be around that no matter what they offer a girl, it’s going to be a no go.

jackson

i reckon that there is a small degree of truth in this - not sure about the hiv scaremongering but the picture has changed but it does everywhere once places become open to more people - eastern europe is a classic - suddenly more travellers with more ready-cash. i was touring around the eastern bloc countries in the early 60s in one of the first 230sls and my god was that heaven!!

i somehow feel that our friend may have had a bad experience and is a little bitter about something - perhaps losing his touch or too much competition around now with lots of other people having a different line to sell?

nylon stockings have been replaced with the possibility of a eu passport or us greencard - that is progress and a change of opportunities - it was easier to bring some stockings than offer a trip back to meet the folks years ago.

do not think that there is too much to be read into this but there does seem to be a taste of sour grapes somewhere along the line - perhaps causing some overreaction or he has been seriously taken for a ride?!

tt

Jackson,

There is absolutely some facts in what he is telling. Many of the great girls with Estonian/Latvian/Lithuanian passports are not working in their countries anymore. They have moved on to the scandianvian and other EU countries. So the remaining WG's are mainly hardened russians asking higher prices than what was normal in the late 90'ties. This is the situation in most hotel-bars. I have not yet used the brothels, so can not give info about them.

The HIV issue is absolutely something to be aware of. From what I have read, some doctors are afraid that they have only seen the tip of the iceberg so far. However, I guess at this stage it is more accurate for the eastern part of the baltic countries, close to Russia. But for sure, we will experience an escalation of the HIV-problem elsewhere in the Baltic.

Although eating in good restaurants in Tallinn has become more expensive also, the cost is still half of what you pay in similar places in scandinavian countries. And some of the places should have a star in the Michellin Guide.

Me, I still have my regular Estonian girl that come running when I call her. Now asking EEK 1000 for the evening, which is about usd.75. Not PRETTY, so I call her only when in a rush, ie busy with the purpose of going there, business.

Have tried to hook up with a friend here in the forum working in Tallinn, but we seem never to get the chance to be free at the same time. We had a plan to share a hot lady one night. Shall get back to this forum when sucessful.

BigthDikth

I have no anger and I'm not unpleasent. Someone must tell little facts. People will be dissapointed if they go there after reading your reports! Try give facts and not what you have experienced there. I think the one who is angry is you. I just tried give some information to other people so they dont expect a heaven and suddenly see something completly different.

I agree the matter about prices in there is not truthe all over, but i still tell you there is many new places that give you high prices as west with worse quality. They think they just charge the high prises as west becuase they have a fancy place.

I wrote what I think is true and I don't care at all if you still want go there every weekend. Its your life and your money.

Bye the way I have personaly no bad experience but what I wrote is what I believe are facts.

[size=-2][u]EDITOR's NOTE[/u]: [blue]Posting of this report was delayed pending revisions to [u]capitalize the word "I"[/u]. To avoid future delays, please use a capital "I" to refer to yourself in future reports. [i]Thanks![/i][/blue][/size]

Jackson,

Milky Boy is exaggerating a bit, but his overall post does have merit. I was in Estonia back in 2000, and the attitude of the girls in general was very enthusiastic. I visited last summer (2003), and there was a day and night difference. First off, there were hordes of foreign guys in town. I mean, hordes. Especially Italians. A lot of them were 18-22 year old frat boy types trying to hit on every girl in sight on the sidewalks. One night in club Hollywood, the guy/gal ratio was about 4-5 guys to 1 girl.

When you have a lot more demand than supply, the price skyrockets. Simple economics. As a result, the standards of the girls has gone way up. Like someone mentioned before, normal girls on the street scoff if one tries to approach them. Because they know it's just another foreigner who has come to their town thinking he can easily get laid.

Btw, this Kava guy below is full of it. He's making that stuff up.

As far as the change in the wind, I'll agree with the previous 3 posts.
In a place like Kiev, 4 years has brought a real movement of money coming in.
Each year from 2000 to 2003, I see more and more new high rise apartment construction, so a middle class is emerging slowly but surely, to get out of the projects. You know, the old run down soviet style buildings where life is about surviving squeezed into those tiny flats. You'll never get a true feel until you visit your girlfriend's family in one of those places. The bathrooms are about 1 inch wider than the toilet.

But things have and continue changing. In 2000, on school graduation day, the last Thursday in May, there was wild partying going on. Everybody getting hammered on countless very strong 35 cent large beers in the center and the connecting streets. Girls getting thrown into the fountains, totally drunk all night.

But go there now, there's a big ultra modern very expensive underground shopping mall where the fountains used to be. Super stuck up hotties strut around who wouldn't give James Bond the time of day. Basically identical to west Europe. In that respect, the wild old times are only a memory now.

But think how many more are still stuck trying to get out of those old projects.
The fun's not over, but everyone's right when they say its not what it was.

The trickle of reports from places like Irkutsk, Samara, Rostov, and Tahkent, don't really talk about things changing as fast, which makes me think that if you just get far enough away from the west, you can stay ahead of that wind. But to go to those place on non-business trips if you're russian language skills are poor, takes a big set of balls I think. So then for the mongers with the biggest balls to get the sweetest cherry pies is only fitting, let the little balled mongers pay up the nose for high mileage in comfy Prague.

I think part of the problem for many of the more experienced members of the forum who have been going to Eastern Bloc countries for a few years is that they have a completely different frame of reference to newer travellers. Unfortunately these people will "suffer" more than most, as they can remember the halycon days. The growth in the economy in these countries (at least in the bigger cities) and the increased number of tourists and businessmen is always going to make the situation worse and inflate prices at an exponential rate.

I don't think you can be too critical of the girls in these countries - if they ask, and more importantly get, $300 for the same service that they used to charge $100 for, that makes financial sense. The problem is the person who pays this money, not the girls for asking it in the first place. I'd do the same in their position!

In Kiev last year, a friend of mine was there at the same time as me and flush with cash. He had 3 overnighters at the Hotel Dnipro at $400 a pop, which is around £250. He's from London where this is a not uncommon rate for an hour. From his perspective he had a great time with beautiful girls at a great price. Being oblivious to the fact that he was overpaying he was delighted. The more this happens, and the more girls in these countries come aware that they can get this sort of money, the worse it will get. If you hark back to 2000 all the time, you're just going to get more and more depressed!

I'm a fairly new traveller to the Eastern Bloc and I love it there. As far as I can tell, there are more than enough beautiful women available with a great attitude and at a reasonable price. I'm not doubting it's not as much fun as it was, but I'll take Kiev over London in a heartbeat. I would still recommend Russia and Ukraine to any novice, you just need to go with realistic expectations.

The problem with HIV in these countries is very real though, as it is in parts of Africa and China. The problem is not so much that it has recently got worse, but that the genuine scale of the problem is now becoming apparant through more accurate reporting; it's no worse than in 2000, we are just beginning to know about it now. HIV awareness, testing and education is only just beginning in earnest in many of these countries (especially outside the larger cities) and I think when truely accurate figures start coming out the scale of the problem may be quite shocking.

There is some basis for the opinion that things are changing here.

It is getting harder to be ugly, unpleasant and rude.

One needs to be able to socialise and yes, prices are going up; in all areas of life.

If on the other hand, one can bother to be sociable, one can bother to look as though one cares about appearance and one is not a member of the travelling poor, then Estonia is still a great place to be. I know, I now live here!

Living here is very cheap compared to most developed countires and Estonia is certainly a developed country. If I want to pay for sex, then I need pay no more than €30 for the night. I f I so choose I can pay as much as €500. (possibly more)

As to the AIDS issue, that is really a crock.

There are about 1500 cases (IIRC, but of that order of magnitude) Most of these cases were uncovered about 2 years ago as the result of external funding for awareness and testing facilities. Since that initial surge of diagnosis, the rate of increase (the important figure) has dropped to insignificant levels. What was/is portrayed as a huge rate of infection and rapid spread of the disease is more accurately characterised as an uncovering of the pool of ten years of uder diagnosis and underreporting. Ten years worth of cases were uncovered in just one year, of course this looks catastrophic. (Imagine what the appearance of, for example, a price change over ten years would look like if reported as happening overnight.... prices double, catatrophe!) The AIDS industry has made great play of that surge, without truthfuly reporting the context. The similar situation applies in most areas of the Baltics and Russia.

How do I know?

I had access to the primary data sources. I have seen the numbers at first hand. If you want to know what goes on in the REAL world of HIV/Aids, look at the blood transfusion system, the answers are al there!

The reports you are refering are not correct! I dont know where you pick up these numbers! I am a medical doctor and i can recomend you reading united nations program on HIV/AID named UNAIDS and the epidemilological fact sheet in there. The direct adress to the fact sheet is: http://www.hivinsite.org/pdf/UNAIDS/Estonia_en.pdf

Its in PDF format and you see even the World health organisation in there. I dont know where you got those numbers that there is only 1500 with HIV. Iam sorry to say that in Estonia the number is 7700 in the end of 2001.

If you want an easy access to numbers of infections in those countries you read the report from AIDS FOUNDATION EAST&WEST. The adress is : http://www.afew.org/english/countries/estonia.php

There is other reports from other baltic govermental organisations you can easily find on internet. Please dont send wrong information to people.

If you should have seen AIDS patients you should take this more seriously to do everything informing people about the facts. One should be aware of risks in there. One should know what is waiting there. One should know about prices and risks and people in there. These coutries are basicly very different than western countries , baside the look of new shoping mals and peoples cloth and make upps that look like west. You cant change mentality and certain cultural thing in 10 years. I have read a lot of people been angry about things I wrote , but i just want to inform new guys be aware before they go there.

Remember that numbers in reports above are almost 3 years old and the real number of HIV people in there for HIV infected must be at leat 10,000 by now and not 1500 as you said . The prevalence of HIV is 1% in population only for 2001. Read the reports. Its a good site for all former soviet countries. This is not anything that government in those coutries are hiding becuase its really very very bad situation in there.

I love girls and I love fuck as much as all others but it doesent stopp me telling as much as I can about risks, in there.

I think you can find girls in there, but the question is if its worth it! I dont know the answer. I have been there and have had grate time too. but ive seen things changing slowly and lately getting so bad as a guy said before that in some discos the girl:boy ratio is 1:4 sometimes, and one can imagine how dissapointed one like us will be who waits something completly different.