Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2882185]So why do you think the rest of Ukraine, Moldova, the Baltic Republics and Eastern Europe will be the next to fall if there's a ceasefire along the current lines of control?[/QUOTE]LOL. Exactly. On one hand the collective west says Putin and Russia have already lost the war because they didn't take Kiev, that the Russian army is incompetent, they are running out of ammo, morale is low, blah blah blah. But then they say Putin won't stop with Ukraine and will go for Poland and the Baltic states. Make up your mind please.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2882120]With all his posts having appeared within the last week? I'd say "based" is a presumption, not fact.

Besides, why would it matter? Some members posting blatant Kremlin propaganda here play in OAE, others in South America. Those people aren't just voicing their opinions; they repeat and repost Russian lies.[/QUOTE]The reason I call you guys Democratic douches is because of posts like this.

Do you understand the POV that our tax dollars could be better spent on health care, education, rebuilding Maui after the fires, on our infrastructure, securing the border, or keeping that money in our fucking pockets ETC versus this war in Ukraine where millions are dying and now is in a stalemate?

Do you understand that the domino theory, the rationale for fighting in Ukraine (first it is Ukraine, then Poland, then the rest of Europe) is the SAME fucking rationale that was used in Vietnam?

Do you get that when a person says that they think money could be better spent elsewhere or kept in their pocket, that does not mean they are spewing Russian propaganda or want to suck Putin's dick or want Ukraine over run?

Do you understand that President Obama said that the USA had no vital interests in Ukraine and was not going to defend it versus Russian aggression?

Because I do not think you understand any of it. I understand Democratic positions. I do not agree with most of them, but I understand them. I have no issue with people who vote Democrats whether it is based on feeling or fact.

What I DO have a problem with is the arrogant Democratic douche who swears up and down whenever anyone disagrees with them that person is stupid, ill informed, wants to suck Putin's dick and could give a fuck about dead Ukrainians and Democracy.

I saw this arrogance on display with Covid, with the vaccine, and now with Ukraine. What amazes me so much right now is you Democratic douches have literally picked out a guy who cannot walk right, who tried to shake the hand of a person who was not there, who cannot even remember what day of the week it is and say, "This guy knows what he is doing, and you are stupid if you do not trust him. ".

Do you think maybe, just maybe others have a point or are you 100% sure you are right about everything?

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2882182]I never said and don't believe that Russia's takeover of Ukrainian territory was legal or justified or right. I believe the opposite. And yes, in the 1990's, and before Russian occupation, a smaller percentage of residents of Crimea and Donbas would have preferred to be part of Russia compared to the percentage in, say, 2019.

That doesn't change the reality of the here and now.

Hundreds of thousands of people are being killed or maimed while the two countries slug it out. Neither side will win. They'll both end up losers. So why not just stop fighting? The point is that the majority of the people who live in the occupied areas didn't even want to be part of Ukraine just prior to when hostilities broke out in 2022. If there's a ceasefire that becomes permanent, along existing battle lines, you're not creating a new Kurdistan or whatever.[/QUOTE][B]1. For one thing it's their country.[/B] Who do you think you are to tell them to stop fighting for their homeland?

Oh, but you'll say, fine, let them fight on their own dime.

Well, no. Ukraine fighting is the best possible bargain for the West. Russia is already crippled both economically and militarily and as long as they're stuck in Ukraine, Europe and the world in whole are safER. Weakening Russia, making sure that it's not capable of launching new attacks against its neighbors is the smartest policy we should stick to.

Unfortunately, there are always tens of Chamberlains for every Churchill, so as long as cowards and isolationists are ruling the world, the future of this existential fight is unclear.

[B]2. Then there is your favorite argument about how Russia is rational and only wants to end this war.[/B]

Well, if you stopped ignoring what people familiar with Putin's biography and 23-year history of "Putinism" in Russia have told you many times over, you would have to drop this nonsense about making peace.

Or I don't know, maybe you too have this crazy, mind-blowing infatuation with Putin like most right-wingers. I mean, Trump did call him a genius, didn't he?

No, Putin is not rational. No, he's not pragmatic. For 20+ years he has been pillaging a huge country with impunity and almost no dissent from the obedient population. He's the richest man in the world. He had it so fucking good! So what does he do? He starts rebuilding the empire. He wages a full-scale war sending 100,000 troops to defeat a 40-million strong nation.

Now all his wealth will never matter. He will never be able to travel to any civilized country. He'll never be able to use his yachts, his jets and all his mansions in the West. In addition, he will very likely lose his country, presidency and his own head.

How rational is all that again?

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2882182]You're not stupid either Xpartan. The Dzerkalo Tyzhnia / Ukrainian Institute of the Future poll was conducted in person, and there's no reason why telephone interviews conducted by Gallup, Pew Research, or GfK would reflect Russian government views instead of reality either.

You realize there's a big difference between a poll conducted by a Ukrainian or Western organization and a staged referendum. The fact that the voting percentages for the referendums in Kherson or Zaporozhia don't accurately reflect reality doesn't mean the same is true of polls. [/QUOTE][B]3. Polls? In person? You have no idea what totalitarian regime means, do you? [/B] I don't care if they conducted their polls whispering -- people DO NOT tell what they think when it goes against the official occupiers policy.

And they sure as hell won't tell you the truth over the phone (ESPECIALLY over the phone).

Again, are there ethnic Russians who want to remain under Russia's control? Yes, absolutely!

Does the majority of people in Donbas and Crimea want to remain under Russia's control? We simply don't know. But we must assume that all the polls and surveys conducted after 2014 are complete and utter BS. Their referendums even more so.

And now, after they've been grabbing men off the streets of Donbas and Crimea cities, sending them to their deaths without any training and sufficient weapons -- you can be sure as hell that this support has evaporated.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2882185]So why do you think the rest of Ukraine, Moldova, the Baltic Republics and Eastern Europe will be the next to fall if there's a ceasefire along the current lines of control?[/QUOTE]I don't know what Paulie thinks, but here is my take. Moldova will definitely, fall. 100%. It's very weak and would be an easy prey for Russia.

The "rest of Ukraine" will very likely be attacked when Russia gets stronger. Of course, if Ukraine also gets stronger, Russia might not dare, just like they decided not to finish off Finland in 1940's. Finland, however, paid a heavy price for their independence, and I find it highly unlikely that Ukraine will be willing to pay it too.

The Baltics maybe. In the very least, the Russians will be poking and provoking until the NATO has to get involved. What happens then is everyone's guess.

Poland -- probably not. It has a relatively strong army even without the NATO umbrella.

Then there is Georgia that might also be attacked if their Parliament loses its pro-Russian majority.

In any case, undefeated Russia will be a major source of instability for Europe for decades to come, and tens of thousands more (at least) will have to die, just because you and Elvis would rather save a few rubles.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2883024][B]1. For one thing it's their country.[/B] Who do you think you are to tell them to stop fighting for their homeland?

Oh, but you'll say, fine, let them fight on their own dime.[/QUOTE]I think they should fight on [B]YOUR[/B] dime. If you want to contribute to Ukrainian defenses, out of your own pocket, or go to Ukraine and fight, you should be allowed to. I do not agree with the Biden administration and neoconservatives from both USA parties, and many European leaders, that we must provide Zelensky with a blank check to push Russia out of Ukraine, no matter how long it takes, how many lives will be lost, or how much money it costs. And to the Biden Administration's credit, maybe it is finally starting to come around.

[URL]https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/12/27/biden-endgame-ukraine-00133211[/URL]

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2883024]Well, no. Ukraine fighting is the best possible bargain for the West. Russia is already crippled both economically and militarily and as long as they're stuck in Ukraine, Europe and the world in whole are safER. Weakening Russia, making sure that it's not capable of launching new attacks against its neighbors is the smartest policy we should stick to.[/QUOTE]The last thing we need is another cold war. This is the way USA Foreign and defense policy has operated for many, many years, and it comes back to bite us. Look at Vietnam, Iraq, Iran, Zaire, Nicaragua -- there's a long list.

And Russia is not crippled economically or militarily. Its GDP, adjusted for inflation, is higher than it was before the invasion. They're ramping up production of armaments and have a much larger pool of young men than the Ukrainians that they can send to slaughter.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2883024]Unfortunately, there are always tens of Chamberlains for every Churchill, so as long as cowards and isolationists are ruling the world, the future of this existential fight is unclear.[/QUOTE]Well, it's a damn good thing that the "cowards and isolationists" as you put it (I'd use very different words) now rule the world. There hasn't been a World War III. Since 1980, very, very little territory has been forcibly annexed through warfare compared to past periods. And as to existential fights, I hope the politicians you admire don't get us into one. Nobody wins a nuclear war.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2883024][B]2. Then there is your favorite argument about how Russia is rational and only wants to end this war.[/B]

Well, if you stopped ignoring what people familiar with Putin's biography and 23-year history of "Putinism" in Russia have told you many times over, you would have to drop this nonsense about making peace.

Or I don't know, maybe you too have this crazy, mind-blowing infatuation with Putin like most right-wingers. I mean, Trump did call him a genius, didn't he?

No, Putin is not rational. No, he's not pragmatic. For 20+ years he has been pillaging a huge country with impunity and almost no dissent from the obedient population. He's the richest man in the world. He had it so fucking good! So what does he do? He starts rebuilding the empire. He wages a full-scale war sending 100,000 troops to defeat a 40-million strong nation.

Now all his wealth will never matter. He will never be able to travel to any civilized country. He'll never be able to use his yachts, his jets and all his mansions in the West. In addition, he will very likely lose his country, presidency and his own head.

How rational is all that again?[/QUOTE]Please make up your mind. I thought you were arguing that Putin would not use nuclear weapons because he prefers to stay alive and wealthy and powerful, that is, because he is rational.

Trump intuitively knew how to handle Putin, kiss his ass while being firm when it counts. The Nord Stream 2 pipeline wasn't going to go on stream while Trump was in power, and NATO countries upped their defense expenditures substantially.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2883024][B]3. Polls? In person? You have no idea what totalitarian regime means, do you? [/B] I don't care if they conducted their polls whispering -- people DO NOT tell what they think when it goes against the official occupiers policy.

And they sure as hell won't tell you the truth over the phone (ESPECIALLY over the phone).

Again, are there ethnic Russians who want to remain under Russia's control? Yes, absolutely!

Does the majority of people in Donbas and Crimea want to remain under Russia's control? We simply don't know. But we must assume that all the polls and surveys conducted after 2014 are complete and utter BS. Their referendums even more so.

And now, after they've been grabbing men off the streets of Donbas and Crimea cities, sending them to their deaths without any training and sufficient weapons -- you can be sure as hell that this support has evaporated.[/QUOTE]Actually in addition to the Donbas poll, the Gallup and Pew polls in Crimea were also person-to-person. I'm not sure about the others. Putin doesn't control unbiased pollsters in Russia, or Crimea or Donbas. If he did, we wouldn't be reading about very low Russian support for the war right now, around 12%. Or that 50% of Russians want the war to end in 2024. I imagine many young men in both countries who are being conscripted just want the war to end.

BTW, on the subject of polls, support for territorial concessions to Russia in Ukraine is way up from past levels, although still only around 20%. And will go up a lot more in years to come if this senseless carnage continues.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2883024]I don't know what Paulie thinks, but here is my take. Moldova will definitely, fall. 100%. It's very weak and would be an easy prey for Russia.

The "rest of Ukraine" will very likely be attacked when Russia gets stronger. Of course, if Ukraine also gets stronger, Russia might not dare, just like they decided not to finish off Finland in 1940's. Finland, however, paid a heavy price for their independence, and I find it highly unlikely that Ukraine will be willing to pay it too.

The Baltics maybe. In the very least, the Russians will be poking and provoking until the NATO has to get involved. What happens then is everyone's guess.

Poland -- probably not. It has a relatively strong army even without the NATO umbrella.

Then there is Georgia that might also be attacked if their Parliament loses its pro-Russian majority.[/QUOTE]Putin and Russia have most likely learned their lesson. They will continue to try to promote pro-Russian governments in Georgia, Moldova, and for that matter the USA. Any military incursion in a non-FSU country is very unlikely.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2883024]In any case, undefeated Russia will be a major source of instability for Europe for decades to come, and tens of thousands more (at least) will have to die, just because you and Elvis would rather save a few rubles.[/QUOTE]Come on Xpartan. You think Elvis and I have anything to do with USA Support or lack thereof for Ukraine? Blame the politicians, not us.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2883190]I think they should fight on ... USA Support or lack thereof for Ukraine? Blame the politicians, not us.[/QUOTE]So, what is the outcome you desire for the current war? Mine is that the 1991, internationally recognized and guaranteed, borders should be restored.

Very sad what happened to the American journalist in Ukraine and very disappointing the American response to his imprisonment (Nothing). Fighting for democracy, what a joke.

[QUOTE=Riina;2887795]Very sad what happened to the American journalist in Ukraine and very disappointing the American response to his imprisonment (Nothing). Fighting for democracy, what a joke.[/QUOTE]I assume you mean youtuber Gonzalo Lira. Better to name the person so people can look up the whole story, rather than this misleading propaganda style phrasing.

I hear that the Russian Duma is passing a new law allowing the state to steal the property of anyone who has been critical of Russia's invasion and war on Ukraine. What do you think about this Riina?

Hi fellow Mongers.

I'm not new but I was out fot five years due to car accident and time after wasn't time for mongering but right now I'm backing at the scene.

Iv read forum threads but didn't find what I'm looking for. And I'm looking for Ukrainian sites where you can meet WG's. I'm planing to visit Love and Kiev in next two week on business trip (yews need do business with Ukraina to maintain cash flow in Ukraina) so I plan to meet some cute girls but rather visit clubs I prefer meet with some WG's or some independent WG's.

If you can help I will be grateful for tips.

Regards.

Jacher.

[QUOTE=Riina;2887795]Very sad what happened to the American journalist in Ukraine and very disappointing the American response to his imprisonment (Nothing). Fighting for democracy, what a joke.[/QUOTE]Journalist, LOL! Next you claim Soloviev and Skabeeva are journalists too.

Here is a balanced report on Lira's misadventures.

[URL]https://plus.thebulwark.com/p/anti-ukraine-chorus-exploit-gonzalo-lira-death[/URL]

[QUOTE=Jacher;2887928]Hi fellow Mongers.

I'm not new but I was out fot five years due to car accident and time after wasn't time for mongering but right now I'm backing at the scene.

Iv read forum threads but didn't find what I'm looking for. And I'm looking for Ukrainian sites where you can meet WG's. I'm planing to visit Love and Kiev in next two week on business trip (yews need do business with Ukraina to maintain cash flow in Ukraina) so I plan to meet some cute girls but rather visit clubs I prefer meet with some WG's or some independent WG's.

If you can help I will be grateful for tips.

Regards.

Jacher.[/QUOTE]This is the wrong forum for mongering inquires. Try the Kiev forum instead.

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?816-Kyiv[/URL]

[QUOTE=Jacher;2887928]Hi fellow Mongers.

I'm not new but I was out fot five years due to car accident and time after wasn't time for mongering but right now I'm backing at the scene.

Iv read forum threads but didn't find what I'm looking for. And I'm looking for Ukrainian sites where you can meet WG's. I'm planing to visit Love and Kiev in next two week on business trip (yews need do business with Ukraina to maintain cash flow in Ukraina) so I plan to meet some cute girls but rather visit clubs I prefer meet with some WG's or some independent WG's.

If you can help I will be grateful for tips.

Regards.


Jacher.[/QUOTE]This is so dumb, the post does not deserve a comment. Why would you believe anything on-line in Ukraine, especially now.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2888032]Journalist, LOL! Next you claim Soloviev and Skabeeva are journalists too.

Here is a balanced report on Lira's misadventures.

[URL]https://plus.thebulwark.com/p/anti-ukraine-chorus-exploit-gonzalo-lira-death[/URL][/QUOTE]I don't need an article to know an insignificant youtuber was put in jail to die.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2888038]This is so dumb, the post does not deserve a comment. Why would you believe anything on-line in Ukraine, especially now.[/QUOTE]And yet you commented. Iv read your content. And I know to respond to a troll is bad idea but is such a fun to point one!!

To a those which gave me this what Iv need BIG THANKS. I'm always know that I will find here answers. When I find on those sites what I'm looking for I will post my report.

Regards.

Jacher.

[QUOTE=JohnClayton;2883202]So, what is the outcome you desire for the current war? Mine is that the 1991, internationally recognized and guaranteed, borders should be restored.[/QUOTE]Yeah. And Israel should return to the 1967 borders too. Turkey should give back Northern Cyprus too. Kosovo should be a part of Serbia again.

You live in lala land. Ukraine is never getting the 4 new territories or Crimea back.

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2891735]Yeah. And Israel should return to the 1967 borders too. Turkey should give back Northern Cyprus too. Kosovo should be a part of Serbia again.

You live in lala land. Ukraine is never getting the 4 new territories or Crimea back.[/QUOTE]The old trusty whataboutism which involves lazy comparisons, especially when it comes to Kosovo whose independence came in the aftermath of decades of ethnic cleansing, while Israel is mostly on the defensive. Most Arabs despise them and want them completely out of the region. Much of the rest comes down to priorities. Russia, far from a small island has demonstrated time and again that they won't honor agreements. They've been clear in their desire to restore empire and threaten mainland Europe. They are the lowest of the low, while targeting civilians with precision weapons and exporting Ukrainian children to indoctrination camps. Therefore given whom they are dealing with Ukraine needs to fight on. While all the Nostradamuses like you have all been wrong.

It's possible the west will tire at some point. That's your only hope, though there will be always be underground resistance movements, no peace for the wicked. That's your la la land, and it will continue to be unpleasant.