Phnom Penh

[QUOTE=Betong]Going rate for what? Listen, it doesn't matter how poor or cheap a place is these days. Really hot girls are like iPods -- thanks to globalization they pretty much go for the same price anywhere. OK, a bit cheaper here, but not all that much. These days the whole concept of "How dare you ask for $100 when most people in your country don't earn that in a month" is a non-starter.[/QUOTE]


you think high class call girls in New York cost $100? laughing out loud

as tourists or expats, we have to put up with the general shitholiness of cambodia, which means we deserve cheaper prices (for everything) as our reward

Anyone who really feels that way about Cambodia probably shouldn't come here. Some of us actually like living here.

[QUOTE=Roguesta]Anyone who really feels that way about Cambodia probably shouldn't come here. Some of us actually like living here.[/QUOTE]

Which way?

I should take back some of what I said a few pages back -- that talent had 'fallen off a cliff' in PP since the early 00s. That's not correct. It's become more expensive and more difficult, but after a few days there I realized its actually about the same as it was in terms of available talent.

I have a feeling Evianist might have been referring to the way PP and Cambodia itself has a really rough look to it, with quite dirty streets, buildings and roads in rough shape, just looks really poor and underdeveloped basically. The word he used to describe that (if this guess of mine is right) wasn't as diplomatic as it could've been.

[QUOTE=Evianist]as tourists or expats, we have to put up with the general shitholiness of cambodia, which means we deserve cheaper prices (for everything) as our reward[/QUOTE]It's all about supply and demand, not the scenery. The supply of the very best girls is always going to be limited. But meanwhile mongers are pouring in from all over the world to find them. Yes, because they still are cheaper (and often hotter) than they would be in NY or Paris etc., but not nearly as much cheaper as they used to be. Inevitable price correction, and it's only going to continue.

[QUOTE=Peter Pan 2009]The cute 40's Viet madame at Martini, I forgot her name, is she still working there? She matched me up with quite a few Viet girls last time I was there. Most Viet girls were like 18-20.

She would facilitate the deals between the girls and the old farangs, make them both agree to go together. She said she makes $1 for each deal from the girl.[/QUOTE]

I actually might have seen this lady -- tho how can we know. Actually there was an older but fairly attractive lady dancing along with the Vogue girl and a few others, sometimes chatting together. I'd guess her to be late 30s early 40s. Same one? Who knows. Looks like we're both out of PP now, so no way to find out. Maybe if you had her name, one of these local guys could tell ya.

[QUOTE=Wendella]I have a feeling Evianist might have been referring to the way PP and Cambodia itself has a really rough look to it, with quite dirty streets, buildings and roads in rough shape, just looks really poor and underdeveloped basically.[/QUOTE]

Yes. And with that should come cheap women.

If you end up with a shitty underdeveloped country with women who are no cheaper than other countries, the tourist dollars will start to dry up quickly.

This is a common misconception, that if the mongers stop coming to Cambodia, the tourist dollars will go away. Quite the opposite is true. As the number of sex tourists lessen, other tourists begin to pour in (Western women, families, etc...). I am a business owner in Phnom Penh who depends on travelers, and this is how I see it.

There is only 1 madame at Martini. If you see any woman in mid 30's, that's her. Anyone wanting to be a new madame at Martini has to walk over her dead body...

I was trying to befriend this woman. It's true the local guys say, they can refer a lot of good girls who do good service to you. The girls trust her and would do what she suggests. They would hesitate big time, but with the madame's urging, would go with the old guys their grand daddys' age.

The old guys sitting around Martini are mostly French-speaking, rough-looking, white hair guys. They look like retirees with pensions from Legion Etrangere from the old Indochina war...hehehe.

[QUOTE=Wendella]I actually might have seen this lady -- tho how can we know. Actually there was an older but fairly attractive lady dancing along with the Vogue girl and a few others, sometimes chatting together. I'd guess her to be late 30s early 40s. Same one? Who knows. Looks like we're both out of PP now, so no way to find out. Maybe if you had her name, one of these local guys could tell ya.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Betong]It's all about supply and demand, not the scenery. The supply of the very best girls is always going to be limited. But meanwhile mongers are pouring in from all over the world to find them. Yes, because they still are cheaper (and often hotter) than they would be in NY or Paris etc., but not nearly as much cheaper as they used to B. Inevitable price correction, and it's only going to continue.[/QUOTE]I agree with you about supply and demand, and I would also add that you have to take into account the "uneducated" monger. This is the guy who doesn't take the time to find out what the going rates are, whether it is for ladies, transportation, etc, and when he is quoted an outrageous price (at least it would be to many of us) he thinks it is a smoking deal and pays it with no hesitation. Voila, new price point or at least the higher rate will be the new starting point for negotiations. Sucks!

[QUOTE=Roguesta]As the number of sex tourists lessen, other tourists begin to pour in (Western women, families, etc...).[/QUOTE]This is one of the big complaints you'll hear from old Cambodian hands -- PP is becoming too much of a legitimate tourist destination!

Anyhow the big pressure on prices for the high-end girls these days seems to be from Asians -- Japanese, Koreans, and now Chinese. My guess is that their numbers are going to keep on increasing for a long while to come.

[QUOTE=Roguesta]This is a common misconception, that if the mongers stop coming to Cambodia, the tourist dollars will go away. Quite the opposite is true. As the number of sex tourists lessen, other tourists begin to pour in (Western women, families, etc...). I am a business owner in Phnom Penh who depends on travelers, and this is how I see it.[/QUOTE]


Family vacation to Phnom Penh? To see what?

There are no tourist sights and there isn't any kind of infrastructure to support tourism. At best you get some people stopping for a day before heading up to Angkor.

You lose the mongers and you don't get legitimate tourists, you get nothing.

Phnom Penh has more than you realize. It has cruises along the Mekong, as well as many markets. Mainly, though, Phnom Penh is a hub. People will come to Phnom Penh, and then travel to Siem Reap. Then, they'll return to Phnom Penh before traveling to Sihanoukville. Many are coming because they can see that Cambodia needs help, and greatly appreciate anyone who is willing to offer a hand. Many of my guests spend lots of time at the orphanages.

This past year, Conde Nast Traveler listed Cambodia as one of the top nine destinations in the world. They placed it under the heading 'Beat the crowds'.

You come here for the ladies, and that's all that you care to see....and this is okay.

[quote=roguesta]phnom penh has more than you realize. it has cruises along the mekong, as well as many markets. mainly, though, phnom penh is a hub. people will come to phnom penh, and then travel to siem reap. then, they'll return to phnom penh before traveling to sihanoukville[/quote]

are you sure you're not thinking of bangkok or singapore?

right now, the top two tourist attractions are **** hookers and the shooting range where you can shoot a cow with a rocket launcher. sounds like a great family vacation.

i realize you work in tourism and thus you're just talking your book, but phnom penh has a long way to go before it can support any serious amount of tourists, so i hope you didn't sink too much money into your business. when they finally make a fast bus/train from thailand to siem reap, pp will become completely unnecessary on the tourist trail unless they put in some serious effort to get their act together.

[QUOTE=Roguesta]Phnom Penh has more than you realize. It has cruises along the Mekong, as well as many markets. Mainly, though, Phnom Penh is a hub. People will come to Phnom Penh, and then travel to Siem Reap. Then, they'll return to Phnom Penh before traveling to Sihanoukville. Many are coming because they can see that Cambodia needs help, and greatly appreciate anyone who is willing to offer a hand. Many of my guests spend lots of time at the orphanages.

This past year, Conde Nast Traveler listed Cambodia as one of the top nine destinations in the world. They placed it under the heading 'Beat the crowds'.

You come here for the ladies, and that's all that you care to see....and this is okay.[/QUOTE]

To me, I'd think for a typical healthy-minded tourist, Phnom Penh surely has to be the B destination to Siemp Reap/Angkor Wat's A. Angkor is arguably the most interesting 'site' in all Southeast Asia -- there just are few spots on the whole planet that can compare, for that kind of thing (the pyramids, Macchu Picchu, great wall, etc.). So for those people, which should be the vast majority, Phnom Penh is either "something else to check out next" on the 7 days or more holiday, or else a step on the way of something else again to check out, Sihanoukville -- which might also vie for the B destination of Cambodia, along with maybe Battambang. (in which case PP becomes C or even D) For atypical tourists with dark tendencies (non-sexual) there are the attractions of S-21 and the killing fields in PP, but not the kinds of things people travel from Europe or Japan to see. I'd think the main 'nice' attractions of PP would be the palace and museum, but both those pale in comparison to Bangkok's similar-but-much-better sites.

What PP really has to work on, which is a serious turnoff to tourists, is the streets hygiene. Actually it's a problem across the country, the piles of trash everywhere. Another big one is the lack of street lighting. There are so many streets even right downtown that are really dark and scary at night because they haven't put in adequate street lighting. It makes it dangerous to walk around. If you go over to Vietnam or Thailand, where they also have trouble with public officials taking certain liberties with funds, you see vastly better attention paid to these kinds of propblems, which are squarely the responsibility of the government. In that country, those 2 words seem to be contradictory terms.

Anyway, however it is happening, it can't be denied that the number of regular tourists has risen a lot. And I would say a lot of the kinds of guys that I saw in bars on streets 104 and 136 were types I never did see at monger spots in PP in past years. Namely, younger budget to middle income tourist types who look like they're brand new to this kind of thing. Lots of those now.

The majority of tourists to PP are already legitimate, if you spend your days and nights in hostess bars though you're only seeing a very small part of the city, there is an absolute shitload of day trips out of PP. Every time I visit I find myself spending less time in the bars and more off doing those non existent touristy things.