Kyiv

[QUOTE=One O Nine]Selling one's body is not your average impersonal commercial transaction. It's heartwrenching.[/QUOTE]Its also one sure fire way a women with zero skills and zero chance of making more than the minimum amount of money in a low level job can support herself and her family.

Having met the majority of prostitutes who just got started working, I can say that in the beginning, its more about helping their families than buying fancy clothes.

[QUOTE=One O Nine]Well I've met a few more working girls than you
. . .
Selling one's body is not your average impersonal commercial transaction. Girls who can handle it are rare. It leaves a mark. You may not notice it every time, you may not notice it right away, not every girl will show it, but I've seen it many times. It's heartwrenching.[/QUOTE][b]One O Nine[/b]. OK, you met a few more working girls then me. But that is for the Ukrain.
This discussion is more general then only the Ukrain.

By the way: how did you meet all these working girls? Was it in your role as worker for the Salvation Army when you were trying to rescue them?
Or were you "buying their bodies and thus leaving marks upon them"? And now your christian moral makes you feel guilty?

Prostitution is not sympatic. Prostitution is selling sex for money.
Most women I met want something back in return for sex. If it is not money then it is a relationship they want in return. A relationship that might vary from sponsorship to marriage.
I have no intention of starting whatever relationship. I also have no intention of lying neither, pretending to have a realationship and then dropping out. So for me prostitution is a good and honest solution.

Like I wrote: prostitution is not sympatic. Not symaptic for both parties.
Nevertheless, want prostitution to be as pleasant and beneficial for both parties as possible.
There is no joy in abusing a woman who is forced into prostitution for whatever reason.
But there is also no joy in being cheated by a prostitute who wants to have a maximum of money in return for a minimum of performance.

I am very suprised a discussion like this is going on at this forum.
Thought this forum was about prostitution and not about womens lib.
I am also pretty suprised the direction this discussion is heading towards.
Reminds me of the Oprah Winfrey Show.
Anyway, to me the reason is getting more and more clear why in western culture (were guys have a mentality like "One o Nine") even unfounded aquisations of sexual harresment can have far going consequences for men!

Fido, I always thought the myth of poor canine vision was just that but...

No one has yet to mentioned anything that you have been going on and on about. Myself, the good Doctor and 109 - who combined have probably fucked more prostitutes and women in general then you could think is possible in your dreams; are simply saying that prostitution in general and high class prostitution specifically is not all Prada phones and Versace dresses. There is a heavy emotional toll to be taken in most case. How do we the trio of whoring muskateers know this - because for the most part we are actually decent human beings who actually develop human relationships with the girls. We get to know their back story, keep in touch (sometimes REALLY in touch) and keep an active interest in what they are doing as people. And in 109's case he is such an out of control stud it's generally my job to keep the girls off him in clubs so he can move.

Now just stop going on and on about nothing and concentrate about your occasional whoring trips to Kiev when you can get away from the wife. If you continue on and on about this you Will crash and burn. If it will make you feel better we will say the real victims of prostitution are the girls and Fido Dido.

Happy?

Hello Mr Connection,

I live here in Kiev. We met maybe 2-3 years ago briefly at an office.

I want to talk to you, meet with you and participte in watching / learning how you go about this. I have had enough of the agency girls and meet most of my current GF's on the internet. I want to do the street scene. Contact me. I tried to send you a PM but it does not work for some reason. send me a PM with a way to contact you, I will send you my email and phone.

Thanks

I will be in Kiev the begging of march, I wont to try from gia this four girls

1) lilia (blond and toll). 2) oksana (beautiful and toll). 3) yana (skinny, blond and sexy). 4) yulia (good reviews).

But the reel secret in injuying sex is the girl shad enjoy and shad be hot, can someone Tel me in their opinion the best one ?

Thanks in advents

[QUOTE=Fido Dido]By the way: how did you meet all these working girls? Was it in your role as worker for the Salvation Army when you were trying to rescue them?[/QUOTE]

Oh Fido, you card.

[QUOTE=Fido Dido]Or were you "buying their bodies and thus leaving marks upon them"? And now your christian moral makes you feel guilty?[/QUOTE]

When did I ever say anything about Christianity? Or can you not imagine an atheist having morals?

[QUOTE=Fido Dido]Most women I met want something back in return for sex. If it is not money then it is a relationship they want in return. A relationship that might vary from sponsorship to marriage.[/QUOTE]

"All women are *****s", "pussified men of the western society", "men are victims in a divorce", and other golden oldies - non stop, every hour on the hour, brought to you by Fido Dido!

Do you have any original thoughts? All your arguments are either tired straw men that collapse under their own weight, or banal fallacies.

And of course, women do want something from you in a normal relationship. They're human beings, after all, and all human beings enter relationships to satisfy their own personal needs. What exactly would be an alternative? Women who fuck men because they consider men to be their superiors and accept sex as the inevitability? Ha! Even 30,000 years ago those kind of views would get you laughed out of the cave.

[QUOTE=Fido Dido]Anyway, to me the reason is getting more and more clear why in western culture (were guys have a mentality like "One o Nine") even unfounded aquisations of sexual harresment can have far going consequences for men![/QUOTE]

Oh hey, I've been waiting for you to drag the staple of all intelligent discussions, the sexual harassment straw man! Do you need a few suggestions on other sweeping generalizations you can make? They're G-R-R-R-REAT for those situations when you don't have any arguments left on topic.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D] we re simply saying that high class prostitution is not all Versace dresses[/QUOTE]


The myth of the expensive EE hoe selling herself for harsh necessity is BS and nonsense. Those girls are not selling their ass for survival, they're selling it ONLY so they can buy BS status accessories (expensive mobiles phones, Prada shoes, D&G jeans, and yes, Versace dresses) and live a livestyle that would normally be out of their reach. They become expensive hoes just for the same reasons that some girls become escorts in our western countries : because the money is good, and if they can stand having sex with old fat guys, the work really isn't that hard.

Yet getting us to feel sorry for them is a big part of their scam. I personnaly would never fall for this.

Some of you "experts'" seem to forget that prostitution is all about role playing. That's live theater, that's all.

[QUOTE=Prosal]The myth of the expensive EE hoe selling herself for harsh necessity is BS. Those girls are not selling their ass for survival, they're selling it so they can buy BS status accessories (expensive mobiles phones, Prada shoes, D&G jeans, ect) and live a livestyle that would normally be out of their reach if they managed to do it and make month end without whoring. They become hoes just for the same reasons that some girls become escorts in western countries : because the money is good. And if they can stand having sex with old fat guys, the work really isn't that hard.

Getting us to feel sorry for them is a big part of their scam. I personnaly never felt and will never fall for this.

Some of you 'experts' seem to forget that prostitution is all about role playing. That's live theater, that's all.[/QUOTE]Pro:

I like your analogy of prostitution being live theater. Respect. That comes pretty close to the way I deal with the individual pro. And is why I like to bring a video camera. I'll remember the term "live theater" next time I'm on the road... :)

But regarding the comments of my fellow mongers below, since when are we talking explicitely and exclusively about expensive hos? And since when are we wholly generalizing?

I also don't feel one damn bit sorry for those cold pros that scoff at a fair offer with the argument that "real men" can pay $500 etc or counter any small talk with "don't do this, don't do that and make up your fucking mind" all while looking at her D&G watch and texting her padrushka on a sponsered $500 phone. The vindictive mercenary-like pro doesn't enjoy my sympathies and experienced mongers avoid these girls like the plague anyway. I've seen Cruiser, 109 and a number of other experienced mongers "in action" at clubs and these girls don't stand a chance with them. I trust that most of the experienced ISG public behaves similarly.

By the same token, I believe if a girl is just trying to get ahead in life and afford some fun accessories so that she can live a glam lifestyle I am happy to support her... just as long as her price is fair and her service is good. Fair price is a relative thing and also dependent on the situation... market prices for the venue you met her in etc. etc. Just because you can bang a salon girl for $60/hour doesn't mean a RP girl has to accept the same tarif. If you want salon prices go to a salon.

Irregardless of where I picked up the pro though, I personally have very rarely been confronted by pros that complained or whined about anything. The vast majority simply did their job without complaint and most seemingly enjoyed the evening. Only after some candid conversations or some keen observation on my part was it apparent what was going on. The girls neither asked for extra money or support and certainly didn't ask for any sympathy. Hos are a tough breed. I've seen them deal with broken condoms, cold showers, utter exhaustion, theft by other mongers, fear and any number of other problems with a bravado and panache worthy of a SAS HRT.

I usually treat pros like girlfriends... as generous as I feel appropriate without overdoting and overspending. It's a system that works for me and one that gets the best response from them. As 109 said, after all they are also humans... and at the end of the day, women are women and its easier to love them than to fight them.

One of the golden rules of mongering is that there is a fine line between being a chump and being a champ.

But we are talking about hos in general and the notion that they all live happy lives as Gabbana-clad princesses is pure propaganda that some astonishgly inept mongers choose to believe, as it apparently matches their skewed outlook on life and disturbed relation to the female species. Some of the woman-hating comments here seem more appropriate in a Sharia textbook than a forum for educated mongers. I find it equally sad that some seem to have declared war on females and hold them responsible for all the frustration they feel in their lives. Sad indeed. Get a life or get a grip is all I have to say to those.

IMHO it is a relatively simple situation. Fuck enough girls and sooner or later you will have fucked some that are losing the game or most probably, never even really had a chance to win.

Night Flight in Moscow and River Palace in Kiev are full of the mercenary-type pro. If you get the wrong one of these, you'll end up feeling worse after the sex than you did before. Get a good one AT A FAIR PRICE and you'll cherish the memories.

Napalm in the morning. Smells like victory.

"Damaged goods" pros are primarily found at the middle to low levels of prostitution and BY NO MEANS are they ALL damaged or living horrible lives. It is rare however to find one that can continue the job for any length of time without going cold or suffering a disturbed relationship to sex or relations in general.

In fact, THE SAME CAN PROBABLY BE SAID FOR MANY MONGERS.

I am by no means trying to take the high moral ground. I am a monger. I fuck women for money. I've fucked angels and devils. High-class hos and 80 IQ country girls from the port.
I've seen both ends of the spectrum and know that prostitution is a job for many, a lifestyle for some and for many others, simply a cruel fate based on economic necessity, poor career choice, abusive boyfriends or simple bad luck.

Denying the fact that many girls suffer from prostitution is silly. It is equally silly to say that all suffer... obviously many profit from it big time and go home laughing at the pathetic men that pay for the holidays, clothes, cars and presents for their real boyfriends.

I prefer my girls somewhere in between, and that's why I am generally quite choosy... often going to clubs and leaving alone because I didn't find anything I liked or any girl I got good "vibe" from.

It's all about keeping your eyes open. And if need be, wallet in hand.

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]You end up feeling worse after the sex than you did before.[/QUOTE]

This is almost always guarranteed in the land of freedom and democracy.
And that's if you can even get to the sex, at least in my neck of the south.

I make it a point to always seek out visitors from other countries, but
sadly they almost always have american-ized so much that they aren't
any better than their US counterparts.

For example, in massage rub-n-tug places, I found a brazilian and a korean
provider. I guess I caught the brazilian at the right moment of horniness,
and got in her pants without her asking for $250 up front, so afterwards
I just handed her $50 as a tip and walked out before she could complain.
That didn't include the $65 hour fee I paid at the front desk. Of course,
in this place, they expect you to get it over with in 5 minutes, 10 max.

Also found a korean who said absolutely no intercourse allowed or she'd
be fired, and absolutely no home visits to my place allowed either. Best
I could do was some DATY, she was very sweet and its a shame that
was all as she probably would be a great fuck. But alas, nothing better available.

So there's just no satisfaction to be had at home. :(

There were times in the 1980's and 1990's when some nice times could be
had in the US with the right connections, but those days is long gone. Very long gone.

So what's a monger to do? Read and study ISG, and grab my passport for
another road trip to Candyland! ;)

Bez, you need some new connections or to move to a better area. I'm still living the life in the US.

This is what tipped me off, look at this

And these 2 posts by the 2 fakes are 2 minutes apart [url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=560948&postcount=2570[/url]
and [url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=560950&postcount=2571[/url]

How many posts do you see within 2 minutes of each other? 2 minutes, about how long it would take to finish one post, log out, log back in with another user's name.

Observeration writes in this post [url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=558244&postcount=2527[/url] "that is not sexy"

That is not sexy is the name of the web site the connection posts in this post [url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=559003&postcount=2537[/url]

And look at the way Cruiser uses the word connection so much. Probably another alias.

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=562107&postcount=2600[/url]

I will be in Kiev the begging of march, I wont to try from [url]www.top-models.com.ua[/url] 1) elja and 2) zhanna

If someone know if the pic, is reel and some info from this girl's it will be appreciate.

Thanks in advents

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Myself, the good Doctor and 109 - who combined have probably fucked more prostitutes and women in general then you could think is possible in your dreams . . .[/QUOTE]My o my. Now I am really impressed! What are going to reveal in your next post? The combined size of a certain body part of you and your friends?


[QUOTE=Cruiser D] . . .Now just stop going on and on about nothing and concentrate about your occasional whoring trips to Kiev when you can get away from the wife. If you continue on and on about this you Will crash and burn. If it will make you feel better we will say the real victims of prostitution are the girls and Fido Dido.[/QUOTE]Sorry that you get upset about what I write. But please don't start answering with nonsense. Just put me on your ignore list.



Now some words to [b]One O Nine[/b]
Please read very carefull what I did write. And please try not to be the "Knight in Shining Armor"[QUOTE=Fido Dido]Prostitution is not sympatic.
. . .
Nevertheless, I want prostitution to be as pleasant and beneficial for both parties as possible.
There is no joy in abusing a woman who is forced into prostitution for whatever reason.
But there is also no joy in being cheated by a prostitute who wants to have a maximum of money in return for a minimum of performance.[/QUOTE]A very big part of all posts on this thread is about RP-girls (who want at least $US 300 a night) and about GIA-girls (who don't earn that bad neither).
These girls know what they are worth and they are not giving it away. They are in it for the money. Period!
I am very sorry, but I have no pity for them.



These recent posts say it all. No need to comment:

[QUOTE=Prosal]The myth of the expensive EE hoe selling herself for harsh necessity is BS and nonsense. Those girls are not selling their ass for survival, they're selling it ONLY so they can buy BS status accessories (expensive mobiles phones, Prada shoes, D&G jeans, and yes, Versace dresses) and live a livestyle that would normally be out of their reach. They become expensive hoes just for the same reasons that some girls become escorts in our western countries : because the money is good, and if they can stand having sex with old fat guys, the work really isn't that hard.

Yet getting us to feel sorry for them is a big part of their scam. I personnaly would never fall for this.

Some of you "experts'" seem to forget that prostitution is all about role playing. That's live theater, that's all.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=NeilSydney]I used to use Gia all the time prior to the 'Orange Revolution' in 2004. Back then, I felt 'ripped off' paying $70USD for 2 hours but was always very happy with the service, so I was a returning customer. This always included bbbj and in many cases anal...ah, sweet Larisa, wish she was around still.

Now as I return to Kiev, 3 years later, I am saddened by the new pricing. Its now often 140-150usd for 2 hours and sometimes you have to pay additional $10-20 for bbbj, cim, things like that. And anal is no longer available.

I can understand the market changes, and it has been 3 years. But what made Gia my favourite years ago was that it was reliable and yet cheaper than other agencies, albeit some of the women weren't quite as good looking. But now, what is there to distinguish between Gia and using others? I guess I'll answer this question in a few weeks time.

And the thought of what RP girls might be charging nowadays (quoting 200-300usd 3 years ago).....its scary.[/QUOTE]

You misunderstand me Fido. I'm not out there to change the world or save any damsels in distress. If you'll notice, I'm a pretty active member in a prostitution forum, and I have a few years' history of reporting on just that kind of activity. I'm not condemning the practice or practitioners in principle. All I'm talking about is the attitude.

There is this common attitude among mongers of "here's the cash you dirty ****, now rock my world" - and if they don't get it, it's "how dare she not treat me like the sultan of Brunei for my hard-earned 60 dollars". I hate it, and so do the girls. Forking over a scant few hundred bucks buys you nothing but quick access to the holes. It doesn't buy you the enthusiasm. You get the girl's participation by treating her like a decent human being. I'm sure that a lot of the "mercenary-type" sex cases are caused by exactly this, by the girl treating you like shit in reciprocity.

Of course, there are all sorts of women in the sex trade. There are the cold, impersonal mercenary-type pros who just want your money and don't want to give you anything in return. I spot them pretty easily, and tend to stay away from them. That's probably why my views on the profession are skewed, because I mostly get the less experienced, more "normal" girls.

The jobs that these girls have, even the diamond-watch-checking-30-grand-boob-job types, is still a pretty shitty job. They still have to fuck random strangers they may find repulsive, and pretend to like it. They all have their creep encounters. Even the Gucci-wearing-$500-a-pop ultra pros started out small, at agencies or tochkas, and have their share of horror stories from a few years back. A lot of these girls have the plain old PTSD, and their job description fits the classic diagnostic criteria to the T.

First and foremost, these women are human beings just like you and me, and there's no reason to think of them any other way. I do not despise misogynists because of political correctness or moral idealism. I despise misogynists because they simplify the world into nonsensical generalizations, and like with all other types of bigotry, are too stupid to see that both their broad stereotypes and their tired arguments make absolutely no sense.

All I'm saying is, understand that these girls are not automatons, and that the mere fact of giving them money is not enough to make them deliriously happy to be with you, and to make them go out of their way to please you. Be nice to them, and above all respect them. If anything, you'll get much better sex that way.

Going to be in Kiev for one night and I am afraid it'll have to be an airport hotel because I have an early morning flight. Any chance there will be some "talent" in the hotel bar or will I need to call someone? I would love to have a massage and, possibly, some more. Any help will be appreciated!