Ho Chi Minh City - General Info

I'm tired of reading about motorbikes. Unless there is a girl on the bike.

I was driving on Ng. Chi Thanh in D5 one night this week. Saw a very cute girl on the back of a motorbike. She was smiling at me. Got my attention. Maybe her friend was driving. The MaryAnn to her Ginger. They said hotel, boom boom and i said sure. We were heading to the hotel when the cute girl signals to me with 5 fingers. 500,000. Seemed high to me. So I made a face and signaled back 200,000. And then they disappeared. Surprised me. I thought that they would haggle. Maybe settle for 300,000. I was disappointed. The girl was the hottest I've seen. Oh well.

[quote=sharka]50cc????? that's more like a bicycle attach to a small motor.
so if i decide to rent anything in vietnam without a proper viet license then the best i could do is either a plain bicycle or a bike with a little motor.--sad, so sad.
so what are the chances of avoiding police fines and hassle for renting a motorbike a little bit bigger (say 100cc?) or should i just stick to a lowly 50cc to avoid any problems.shark[/quote]
i would say that if you rent a mb in the 100cc, 110cc, 125cc range and you ride with traffic at reasonable speeds and don't break any of the technical traffic rules at intersections, one-ways, etc., that in a year of driving every day in the city, you may be randomly stopped by the police on average once every 2.5 years.
jd

[QUOTE=Milkweed]I'm tired of reading about motorbikes. Unless there is a girl on the bike.

I was driving on Ng. Chi Thanh in D5 one night this week. Saw a very cute girl on the back of a motorbike. She was smiling at me. Got my attention. Maybe her friend was driving. The MaryAnn to her Ginger. They said hotel, boom boom and i said sure. We were heading to the hotel when the cute girl signals to me with 5 fingers. 500,000. Seemed high to me. So I made a face and signaled back 200,000. And then they disappeared. Surprised me. I thought that they would haggle. Maybe settle for 300,000. I was disappointed. The girl was the hottest I've seen. Oh well.[/QUOTE]

Milkweed, so you've been here for a while and had a few experiences - almost got ripped off by a ladyboy as I recall - and you still think you can get a genuine motorbike girl for 2 or 300,000.

Those asking for 500,000 in that area aren't likely to rip you off, so you pass up having an experience with "the hottest I've seen" for the difference between what she was asking and what you were prepared to pay, ie 200,000. This is her real price, ie the price of the upgrade. I wonder how many people apply these spending principles to their other shopping; eg do I buy a shirt I don't like for $10 less than the one that I really like (best I've seen), do I buy that bruised avocado or banana for 20% less than the tasty looking one, do I use that cheap supermarket deodorant that really stinks because its cheaper - etc

[QUOTE=Sharka]50cc????? that's more like a bicycle attach to a small motor.
So if I decide to rent anything in Vietnam without a proper Viet license then the best I could do is either a plain bicycle or a bike with a little motor.--Sad, so sad.
So what are the chances of avoiding police fines and hassle for renting a motorbike a little bit bigger (say 100cc?) or should I just stick to a lowly 50cc to avoid any problems.

Shark[/QUOTE]

Electric bikes are going to need a bike licence to ride soon, along with helmet.
Get a Wave, dream, jupiter type bike, they are the most popular ie cheap bikes around. Go with the flow and learn to recognise the boys in beige. I've only been pulled over 2 times in 2yrs. first time with the miss's and her sister. 3up on a bike is a nono. 2nd time was by a trainee cop dressed in green. He tried to extort usd$50 out of me, I responded by laughing at him, grabbing his name badge and reading it out loud. He responded by covering up his name badge and waving me on. Since I got my lic the police dont even look at me anymore....

[QUOTE=Macheath]Milkweed, so you've been here for a while and had a few experiences - almost got ripped off by a ladyboy as I recall - and you still think you can get a genuine motorbike girl for 2 or 300,000.
[/QUOTE]


I do think that. I have had them for 2 or 300k. Never paid more than 300k. Other guys on this forum have too. I think it is the going rate. You have a different experience?

I can go to a hot toc and get a fantastic bj while groping the girl any way I want for a total of 200,000. So I don't want to pay 500k for someone that may or may not give good service. Plus another 50k for the hotel (I wonder if you pay more?). That 550k is almost equal to the cost of 3 hot toc visits. And my experience with the hot toc is that it provides better service than motorbike girls.

I think a better analogy would be paying 500,000 for a pair of jeans when if you bothered to haggle you could pay half. The jeans are the same either way.

[QUOTE=Johndao]
To Wendella and some others, I guess I should say what I really mean, and that is that like so many things in life, but especially here in HCMC, you don't always get what you pay for. If I could guarantee quality for money in a girl, her looks, shape, attitude, skills, I would not hesitate to pay for it. But often the better they fix themselves up, the more they charge, the less they perform (exceptions of course). I have found NO connection between the amount I pay a girl and how satisfied I am after, none at all. I have known girls who think it is literally a privilege to be in their company and that my cum should magically fly out of my dick merely by being in proximity to them. Give me quality for money, I'll pay. But here it is random, hit or miss with lots more misses than hits.[/QUOTE]


The aspect of this you don't seem to consider, well... first you don't seem to be able to consider that different people have different taste -- it seems like you see it in terms of absolutes, black and white, like you think your opinion is correct and any other view is just flat wrong. It's not that simple. I sometimes like to check out slicker places like Catwalk or 16, even if they are far more expensive. I can afford it. Why not. The advantage those places have is atmosphere and that the girls as a whole look better. I'm not just talking makeup and hair. If you go out and take the 1st 20 girls you find on Ng Chi Thanh or in hot tocs, and then go take the 1st 20 you find at Catwalk, obviously you're going to see a clear difference in looks, not to mention hygeine, quality of dress, etc. I'm sorry but Catwalk wins that one easily. The ones at Catwalk will be taller, slimmer, prettier and have nicer bodies. You probably wouldn't find even one girl from Ng Chi Thanh who looked better than one single girl at Catwalk. You also see a really big step up in atmosphere of the place itself (compare then to a cheap cafe om or hot toc). If I'm in a place that's looks grimy, that does turn me off. Makes me uncomfortable. For people who don't feel that way, or don't care much to go for girls that are especially hot, if you only care about the effort they make (or think "can't see their faces with the lights off anyway") and are also willing to write off the kinds of fiascos you experience fairly often with those cheap types (see Onigaijan post below, or many more like it up here, almost always with the cheapest girls), ok then hot tocs and motorbike girls are fine, and yes a lot cheaper. Myself, I don't want to restrict myself to those places, or as a rule exclude girls who dress well, wear nice makeup, look clean, and maybe, yes, even charge more. In my experience, cheaper does not correlate strongly to better service. The worst ones of all are the ones from the lowest price range (in general, but with exceptions)-- such as the story below. That kind of thing would not happen with a girl from a HBT bar, for example, or from a girl at Catwalk, or other pricey venues. It happens commonly for that type of girl though, the type he went after.

[QUOTE=Johndao]...To use some non-P4P examples, next time you are Parkson have a good look at some of the men's dress shirts they sell with unknown Euro sounding branding. Check out the prices, easy to find some for 1.2m, 1.8m, even 2m and over. Then check out the cotton and look at the stitching, especially around the pockets and sleeve ends. It's just a joke at those prices...[/QUOTE]

I hear you on that one. I hardly shop for dress shirts in VN, preferring to do so in my home country instead. The locally-made shirts are just awful when it comes to the detailing - collars, breast pockets, cuffs. An Phuoc is about the only locally-made label I'd ever buy from but the last time I did it was only because I needed a new one last minute!

[QUOTE=Milkweed]I do think that. I have had them for 2 or 300k. Never paid more than 300k. Other guys on this forum have too. I think it is the going rate. You have a different experience?

I can go to a hot toc and get a fantastic bj while groping the girl any way I want for a total of 200,000. So I don't want to pay 500k for someone that may or may not give good service. Plus another 50k for the hotel (I wonder if you pay more?). That 550k is almost equal to the cost of 3 hot toc visits. And my experience with the hot toc is that it provides better service than motorbike girls.

I think a better analogy would be paying 500,000 for a pair of jeans when if you bothered to haggle you could pay half. The jeans are the same either way.[/QUOTE]

Milkweed, please take a second and try to understand my simple point. The jeans (girls) are not the same. If I understand you correctly you passed up "the hottest I've seen" for the sake of an extra 200k. Now maybe you're exaggerating, but if you've been here a while "the hottest I've seen" is pretty hot.

So you've maybe missed a quality experience to instead have a quantity experience with 2 plainer girls. Plus you've insulted her and she thinks you're a cheapskate.

I also don't share this obsession with service standards. If a girl is undesirable then I'm not going to enjoy being with her no matter how enthusiastic she is. As for the beautiful girls with tickets on themselves who think that we should feel priviliged to be in their company - well maybe I and some others can see their point.

[QUOTE=Wendella]The aspect of this you don't seem to consider, well... first you don't seem to be able to consider that different people have different taste -- it seems like you see it in terms of absolutes, black and white, like you think your opinion is correct and any other view is just flat wrong. It's not that simple. I sometimes like to check out slicker places like Catwalk or 16, even if they are far more expensive. I can afford it. Why not...[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Milkweed]...I can go to a hot toc and get a fantastic bj while groping the girl any way I want for a total of 200,000. So I don't want to pay 500k for someone that may or may not give good service. Plus another 50k for the hotel (I wonder if you pay more?). That 550k is almost equal to the cost of 3 hot toc visits. And my experience with the hot toc is that it provides better service than motorbike girls...[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Johndao]...To Wendella and some others, I guess I should say what I really mean, and that is that like so many things in life, but especially here in HCMC, you don't always get what you pay for...[/QUOTE]

Gentlemen,

Interesting topic here but before this discussion spirals out of control, allow me to share my simple albeit crude theory on this. Let's call it Raverboy's Basic P4P Economic Theory, which states:

[i]The 'market' rate for P4P in a particular city/country/region should be a function of the average income/salary for that particular city/country/region, expatriate salaries excluded.[/i]

Allow me to demonstrate examples based on my past experience and estimates:

Average income in the US: USD 45,000 / year = USD 3,750 / month
Average ST FS outcall (say 1 hr): USD 250
P4P Index (P4PI) = 250/3750 = 0.067 or 6.7%

Average income in Singapore: SGD 2,500 / month
Average ST in Geylang (non-brothel Thai FL): SGD 50
P4P Index (P4PI) = 50/3000 = 0.02 or 2.0%

Average income in Thailand: THB 12,000 / month
Average ST from a Sukhumvit SW: THB 1000
P4P Index (P4PI) = 1000/12000 = 0.083 or 8.3%

Average income in Indonesia: IDR 1,500,000 / month
Average ST from a Kota Brothel WL: IDR 250,000
P4P Index (P4PI) = 250000/1500000 = 0.167 or 16.7%

Average income in Vietnam: VND 2,500,000 / month
Average ST with a motobike girl in D5: VND 200,000
P4P Index (P4PI) = 200000/2500000 = 0.08 or 8.0%

Surprising, huh? So perhaps we're overpaying in Thailand and Vietnam, but then again with most of us being expatriate foreigners and all... a ST for us is far far less than the 8% of income for the average Thai or average Viet. We don't feel what the above results would lead us to believe... but IMHO interesting to look at it this way nevertheless.

[size=1]Either that, or I'd try my damndest at getting an expatriate package to live in Singapore![/size]

Me and and friend have been to Phnom Pehn a couple times but we have never been to Vietnam before, he is Canadian and I am American.

In December we want to go from Bangkok to Phnom Pehn about 5 days, then fly to HMC, also know as Saigon. He is sometimes picky about not wanting to take a bus though.

All the flights from Cambodia to Vietnam were expensive, more than $400 USD.
Any flight recommendations? I can fly from Bangkok to Phnom Pehn for about $80 USD one way. Not much more to fly from Bangkok to HMC.
But Phnom Pehn to HMC is a ridicoulous price. After my trip in Asia I need to take a one way flight to the US. So I was going to fly from HMC to the US because it was cheap.

Can you guys give me some travel advice to go from Phnom Pehn to Saigon?
I'll ask on the Cambodia forum too.

Thanks

[QUOTE=Raverboy]Gentlemen,

Interesting topic here but before this discussion spirals out of control, allow me to share my simple albeit crude theory on this. Let's call it Raverboy's Basic P4P Economic Theory, which states:

[i]The 'market' rate for P4P in a particular city/country/region should be a function of the average income/salary for that particular city/country/region, expatriate salaries excluded.[/i]
[/QUOTE]

Nice concept and theory but some of your data is wrong. Locals don't pay what you quoted in LOS, Jkt or Vn......if you're going to use local salaries, use what is charged for local ST.

[QUOTE=Gagoo]Me and and friend have been to Phnom Pehn a couple times but we have never been to Vietnam before, he is Canadian and I am American.

In December we want to go from Bangkok to Phnom Pehn about 5 days, then fly to HMC, also know as Saigon. He is sometimes picky about not wanting to take a bus though.

All the flights from Cambodia to Vietnam were expensive, more than $400 USD.
Any flight recommendations? I can fly from Bangkok to Phnom Pehn for about $80 USD one way. Not much more to fly from Bangkok to HMC.
But Phnom Pehn to HMC is a ridicoulous price. After my trip in Asia I need to take a one way flight to the US. So I was going to fly from HMC to the US because it was cheap.

Can you guys give me some travel advice to go from Phnom Pehn to Saigon?
I'll ask on the Cambodia forum too.

Thanks[/QUOTE]
For the price and service, take the bus. There are 5 bus companies in PP that charges $10-15 for a 6hr ride in a decent bus on a decent 1 lane highway. Best to book a bus leaving 8am from PP so your arrival will be about 2pm or so (depending on traffic) in HCMC. and best to book a day ahead so you could pick a seat further up front and away from the rear bathroom.

Some of the bus companies will even pick your asses up from your hotel for free so like I said, can't beat the service. I often use Capitol tours buses and never had a problem with pick up from my hotel for $10 all in. The $15 bus will be newer with DVD movies on board (but often in foreign lang) and snacks served, but even the $10 buses all have bathrooms on board.

BTW: you left out two important cost. If you flew out of PP, there is an additional airport departure tax and you also have to pay taxi from your hotel to the airport. Taking the bus will avoid these two additional cost. And just the cost of the taxi to PP airport will almost get you to HCMC by bus. and saving on the airport departure tax will pay for most of the Vietnam visa cost--IMO

PT

[QUOTE=Traveler1234]Nice concept and theory but some of your data is wrong. Locals don't pay what you quoted in LOS, Jkt or Vn......if you're going to use local salaries, use what is charged for local ST.[/QUOTE]

Thanks. I doubt for VN the 'local ST' rate is unlikely to be much less. As for LOS and JKT, assuming halving the ST rate for simplicity would put the P4PI at around 4% and 8% respectively. Still surprising, given the results for Singapore.

[QUOTE=Raverboy]Thanks. I doubt for VN the 'local ST' rate is unlikely to be much less. As for LOS and JKT, assuming halving the ST rate for simplicity would put the P4PI at around 4% and 8% respectively. Still surprising, given the results for Singapore.[/QUOTE]


Actually, in Jkt locals can get easily for 30K; not sure about Vn or LOS

Hi,

I will be heading over to the Vietnam in December for one week. I'll be spending my X'mas over there. Right now I've yet to book my hotel.

Any recommendation of GF hotels?

Also is it easy to hook up a girl LT in Vietnam (HCM) where she can accompany me for the whole of my stay over there? Which means she will follow me wherever I go.. sightseeing... etc. and back to hotel for sex.

Where should I head to find a girl right after dumping my luggage at the hotel and then we'll proceed for dinner and countdown X'mas at night together.

Thats all for now!

Thanks!