Kyiv

[QUOTE=Robert1110]I disagree...

Most beautiful women let the attention go to their head and they become "spoiled" from the attention, forgetting that all men are not alike yet treating us all as if we are. Finding a beauty that has not let their beauty go to their heads is the problem. If you are looking a for a"normal" girl, one good enough to invest your time and resources into a serious relationship you probably are not posting here. ;.)

It is all about money.[/QUOTE]Right ARM Robertooo! You must remember these women. ALL (well 90%).come from 'dysfunctional' families! They also have grown UP with all forms of aggression. Almost 24/7! They are not taught 'social skills! Please/Thank You. They 'call a spade a spade'. Even if it offends YOU!

Their language is 'synthetic' and the proper use of grammar depends on 'inflection' of words / syllables. Have YOU ever listened to mama and daughter have a normal conversation that begins to elevate in 'decibels' and you swear they are arguing? I told my Elena that if my 16 yr old son spoke to me like that I would smack him! She said what? We were not mad or arguing. It is normal!

I have had more success getting a babe's attention when after she insults me I call her stupid, or rude, or not worthy of my time. See, she is used to the guy crawling away with his tail between his 'balls'! With the rebuke she now sees you as a different guy. Who does not take any sh_t! Perhaps POWER shows and they LIKE IT!

Nice guys do well here, but 'whimps' go without unless they 'pay thru the nose'!

LS Guy

I agree with Robert that some Russians,Ukrainians have excellent pick-up skills and communicate easily with the ladies.They are seductive and when going to other western countries continue to have success.

These people wre extremely good in talking.They understand the chicks' world and talk to them effectively.I was surprised seeing how easily they could carry a conversation without pick-up lines, guidelines etc. just relying on experience and empathy.

I think these men are far more experienced than Westerners and have been exposed far more times to female company.

Local men are good at picking up girls because the girls are more receptive to being picked up by them. These men are local, they speak the same language, and share the same culture. With a foreigner, a girl knows that he's in and out, meaning he'll be a quick fling. A local man obviously offers much more stability. And sharing a language and common culture is very important to building a connection.

Of course, there are the foreigner chasing girls, who either stereotype the locals as mindless brutes who don't know how to treat a girl, who see you as their ticket out of Ukraine, or who look for oafs who'll give them cell phones and expensive gifts.

I personally find that with freebies, emphasizing your wallet or your foreignness is a first-class ticket to Rejection-ville. The most common reaction will be "who does he think he is, some country girl who'll sleep with him just because he's from Des Moines?" or "who does he think he is, I'm not for sale". Trying to buy a regular girl is generally a very bad idea, because she'll feel it and detest it; or otherwise make you for a clutz and try to take you for all you've got.


And regarding these girls having $300 cell phones, that's nothing unusual, and nothing suspicious. We grew up with a completely different mentality so it's hard for us to grasp, but the Russians are used to completely different economic conditions. These girls, their parents, and their grandparents always lived with desirable goods costing more than their monthly salaries. In the Soviet times, with an average salary of 100 roubles / month, a good pair of winter boots cost 150; and yet everybody stood in lines for them and bought them, and none of them had sponsors. There's a whole culture of living small and saving month-to-month, and then borrowing from friends and repaying in installments, all in order to buy that one or two desirable items a year.

Besides if you go to a bazaar, you'll find lots of used (often stolen) $300 phones for maybe 30 bucks or less.

So in short, it's really wrong to assume that just because a girl has some expensive items, she has any disposable income.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]1)


And hey Mr. Editor, want to back away from that report of distinction button? I think it goes off every time you sneeze.[/QUOTE]LOL! If you have a moment, have a look over in the Macau forum for a truly distinctive report that wasn't even flagged by the sneeze button at all.

Thanks to 109 for good analysis of ukrainian men advantages and attitude of girls.
I agree that people in this country can live on a very low budget cutting expenses.I once lived with a girlfriend in her flat and she did not want to spend anything.I was stunned to realize that after one week staying with her I had only spent 150$ including present I gave her,that is 100$ for me and her going out every day eating in restaurants etc.She just knew what places to avoid and where to go and every I paid seemed ridiculously small.She told me you foreigners throw your money out of the window.

In Ukraine, everything is possible.

Having spent 2 years visiting and now living in Kiev, my best estimation for chances of success in Kiev are 50/50….you will or you won’t.

1. It’s still possible to pull on Kreschatyk.
2. It’s possible to go out on St Valentines night to a club, spend $250 and go home alone.
3. It’s possible to walk in to a club, talk to a girl at the bar before managing to buy even yourself a drink, kiss her, take her home, have a great night and never know how it happened.
4. It’s possible to be home, get a call from a girl you talked only online to, asking if she can come over and if you have a friend for her friend. I was the friend in this case.
5. It’s possible to go to River Palace at 5am after striking out in a club, take Olya from Odessa for $75 for 3 hours and she stays for 8 hours.
6. It’s possible to visit Kharkov and have 3somes for $50.
7. It’s possible to “sponsor” 2 bisexual girls to visit the bright lights of Kiev for 4 days for $250 each.
8. It’s possible to send 1 of your girlfriends around to your friend as you’re busy and he is horny.


Finding girls in Kiev?

1. The street
2. The metro
3. Shops
4. Internet
5. Clubs
6. Cafes
7. Buses
8. Planes
9. Trains
10. Automobiles

Hecker, I'm confused.. Kiev is cheap or Kiev is expensive?

You need to buy girls mobile phones in order to fuck them or taking them out to Mr Snack and living at their place is fine? Oh, you misspoke; you only need to buy girl(s) mobile phones if you want a threesome?

You posted three or four long reports and then posted a 5 line report saying the opposite.

What no report of distinction?

Speaking of sexy phones, 109 are you waiting for someone to sponsor you and buy you one? ;) For a Russian your attitude towards mobile phones is very American. :P

Life - Dysfunctional families? Lack of social skills? Never say 'please, thank you'? What are you talking about? I should have met you when I was still in Kiev to make sure we are both talking about the same place.

Irish, how was Kharkov? I had almost no luck when I went there last year. Did you go to meet someone?

What I wrote last time regarded girls from province. They are less demanding and province is cheaper. Of course there are there girls asking for handys also but they offer more to a boyfriend before getting them.

I made a distinction between good girls who have real feelings and do not want you to spend to much and dolce vita girls who want you to spend as much as possible on them. Some of the good girls may regard a foreigner as a future groom and think if I am going to ask a lot he will not want to marry me or something like that. This leads to a better treatment.

On the other hand there also girls in clubs, discos or also in internet who are interested in just having a good time with a boy who can afford expenses. Since he is foreigner and seems exotic to them they are attracted to him, maybe only sexually or they have true feelings towards him, in fact all these are mixed in cities like Kiev. I mean such a girl probably loves a wealthy guy but if he did not have this wealth she would not love him. Because in her mind he and his wealth are combined. If the wealth is missing he becomes a different person for her. I do not know if this discussion is important at all.

As for metro I found it extremely difficult to get phone numbers in metro in comparison to other cities like Prague. Girls are very negative to guys trying to approach them and everybody is in a hurry. Hunting in metro and Kreshatik does not seem to me a good idea. Girls sitting and drinking beer are approached by guys all the time, I doubt if they have any true interst in them.

On the other hand being in a club like Decadence show more prestige, somebody is judged as a more important person especially if he is dressed well. Women there look like models and find it normal to talk to guys approaching them. When I was in Kiev last summer I noticed many foreigners trying to start a conversation with the ladies speaking with them a few minutes while the girls smiled and then these guys returned to their place without any success. I also noticed some ukrainian sponsors who sat with other girls while their girlfriends danced. If you approached any of the girls in their company they just came and tell you to get away since all these girls belonged to them. I got two phone numbers, one from a hot girl from Odessa whose buttocks showed completely when dancing in an extremely short dress.

She let me tough her anywhere but when I called her back the next day she found an excuse not to meet.

The same is in province. Most girls giving numbers in the club just do not want to meet the next day. That is why I try to get them home after meeting them in the same night. If I fail, 90% do not want to meet the next day.

I agree with Irish Lad that everything is possible but I consider the price though. I mean sponsorship of 250$ for four days is acceptable but for 500$ for example is not. Cost of 50$ for a date with a girl from internet or club sounds reasonable but 150$ for two hours in disco is not.

Problem is some girls view it differently, they have no sense for the money and find it normal to have you spend 200$ for them for just a date or ask for expensive mobile phones from first meeting. If somebody proves weak they raise their demands. Chicks have a completely other view of money, our value and their value than the one we have.

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Speaking of sexy phones, 109 are you waiting for someone to sponsor you and buy you one? ;) For a Russian your attitude towards mobile phones is very American. :P[/QUOTE]I'm a proud owner of a fancy new Nokia N93i, a Europe-only model. I may be the only one in California to have one. 3.4 Megapixel, 1 gig of memory, video camera, etc.

When I twist it around and turn it into a video camera, people do a triple take. Chances are, when I walk down K-street and whip it out, I'll be knee deep in girls within minutes.

Where have I seen that phone before? You can buy the N93i in the US. But the real question is who bought you a $800 phone and WHAT did you have to do for it. That phone is sexy. I remember bringing a Razr to Kiev in May of 2004 - no one knew what it was - girls were lining up just to touch it. I remember my main gf of the time telling me she didn't like my phone because it was too big. We went to Fellini's for dinner and she saw some model on F TV licking a Razr. Oh, is that your phone she said? Who's your daddy now...Kiev is so priceless, I love it. Where else can you get laid because of your cell phone? In the US you have to have at least a hot car. ;) Seven months later every other person with a mobile phone in Kiev had a Razr. I almost left my Razr with someone when I left Kiev last week but I doubt she would have took it. Besides, the SIM card is full and there are another 250 phone number in the phone memory. The phone - an original V3 is worth about $5. But the numbers and the pictures it has taken are priceless.

Yes, yes, Hecker, quite right, quite right.

I think the editor is just taunting me now.

Half the girls on K Street already have that phone crusier. ;.)

Seriously. I did see one girl who had one. I see some real good phones, sometimes 2, in the hands of these girls. It is a cool phone.

It is hit or miss here. I went to k street to meet a girl from the internet. While I was waiting for her, I need to move the bench seat back as they were pushed too close to the table. I had to ask the girl on the seat behind me to move hers up so I could move mine back. She was young, spoke english and she and her friend were pounding back the tequila. I was impressed. And it was only 16: 00

Long story short, got the number of the one I asked to move her seat. She flirted with me when she would go to the bathroom and come back. In a way that the girl I was meeting would not see.

After my meeting was over, I turned around, chatted them up a bit, was invited to sit and drink with them. The other girl lives with her extemely rich 30yr old BF, a ukrainian who apparently owns several companies and builds factories. She was chunky by my standards and maybe a 6-7 in the face. I thought a rich ukrainan could do better. But she says she only sees him early in the morning and then at midnight so. Her friend, the one I have the number, is the company translator. The rich BF is out of the country so the girls are partying. They left to go to avalon. And I know they were feeling the effects of at least 5 rounds or more of tequila. I'll give her a chance to SMS me and if not, I'll sms her in a couple days and see if she wants to meet. She told me a few times I was a nice man or something like that. I can talk in the right situations and have a small game going for me.

All you have to do is be in a situation where you can strike up any conversation. I think it is 109 that says something about most americans do not have any "game" and that was the my case. I had to devlop my game here and it came with a better understanding of the culture and the woman here. I was one of those men who would come here for a month and meet the agency girls. You bet I got played until I saw what was going on. I only would get taken adavantage of once in any particualr manner, but they have many methods.

In the USA, it was easy for me. I know the rules. I got laid so much over the years I quit counting. I also agree with whoever said that american girls are far easier to score with on the first meeting or date. I also agree with whoever posted about the russian men having it easier for the same reasons we have it easier at home (of course, the american girls would fall for the accent and the unusualness, just as some women do here). They have the language, the knowledge of what's going on. And they well. Live here. I have found it is a distinct advantage to tell these ladies I live here and intend to stay for some time.

Back to the games they will play. (this happened about 2 years ago. I have learned a lot since then)

I have been contacted by a lady I met maybe a year ago at some agency party. She will sms me and tell me she is at a club (carrabean).come join her. Stupid me. I go, we drink, I have to pick up her prior tab (along with her GF), I find this out as I am getting our coats to leave. The bartender comes up presenting me with her bill. I turn to her, understand what she is doing and I basically make her promise me sex for getting the bill. She is holding on to me, agreeing. We had talked about sex back at the table while drinking. So she was "playing" along.

We get the taxi. We drop her friend off on k street. It is only a 2 blocks from my flat at the time. She will not get out of the taxi. Says it is her "woman's days". I know this is BS. In fact, if I ever hear it again, I am going to tell the girl to prove it. And I'm serious.

So I say. "ok, but as soon as you are ready, you're coming to me". Of course she says ok.

Next day I get sms. "all you want is sex".

Never saw her again and last I heard, she is married to the mule she used to get the the USA and nearer to her sister in ohio.

What first amazed me is how much some of these girls will do to get so little. The effort and time they put into getting a $30 handbag.

So. I have learned. Unless she is really special, I spend next to nothing but cafe's, drinks, small meals, maybe a inexpensive gift for the the ballet. But until they are steadliy fucking me, they are not getting anything more.

With girls I just want to fuck. I will do first meetings in the center. I live (to the girls) "far away". But if I can, I do first meetings close to my flat. Certainly second meetings.

In fact, lack of good english can be good. I use the "let's use my notebook back at my flat" trick.

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]

I just got to Kiev for a 5 days bussinpleasure trip.

Arrived at Midnight, got a ride from my regular driver (well, saying regular is maybe too much, it's my third trip to Kiev), and off we go to my apartment. Close to K street, newly renovated, jacuzzi, fast internet, nice tv and stereo, etc. (of course in a SHITTY soviet building) 140USD a day. Maybe a little bit too much, but not so bad for a last minute reservation. Certainly a much better value for the money that my last visit to Ukraine Hotel in Moscow at 220USD a night.

After the necessary shower, I ask my driver that I want to have a beer and he takes me to Pa-Ti-Pa, but they are closing (2: 30 am on a Wednesday) and we go to a small club called "DISCO" (appearently it just have changed the name). Almost no people at all (3-4 girls dancing, 7-8 guys looking them ansxiously from the bar. I decide to leave after the first beer and no better expectations.

Let's hit RP! (something like last chance at 3: 00am, especially if you have to work in the morning and you just landed). We got there, the usual crowd, and some good material. Some familiar faces (girls) from my last visit, and after drinking the first Jack Daniels and watch the scene from one of the dance floor small tables, I got up and go to the bar. I feel surprinsingly selective tonight, and I am about to leave the place with empy hands when I spot this gorgous Masha girl (blond, 1. 70m, around 20y. O. PERFECT tits, close-to-perfect eyes, next-door type girl, just the way I like them.

But, too bad, she is talking to this american guy who seems to be trying to convince her of something. After a few seconds she spots me and makes me a signal of waiting while she gets rid of the guy (after that, she claims she have been almost harrased by this guy, for two years, she says, wanting her for free.)

To cut a long story short, her first offer is 300USD for 1 hour (I almost die from laughing) quickly droping to 150 for 2 hours (hey, it's 3: 45am! ). Thanks to this forum fot the never-to-miss hint of negotiation EVERYTHING before, because when we were almost leaving the place, I say that BBJ is a must for me, and she backs up. (No, no, no. Blah, blah, blah.) In a desperate moment, I rise the offer to 200USD and even 250USD (actually, my little friend took over during this part of the negotiation, and to my shocking face, she REFUSES. Hey, when has this country gone to hell?

I left her my number in case she changes her mind (I don't actually expect a call, but hell, who knows.), and leave the place, half shocked, half upset, half frustrated. Actually too frustrated to pick another girl, so I am writing you this report, back at my apartment, ALONE!

Strike One. All right, don't panic! I am cutting my losses, and keeping my forces for tomorrow, Thursday, when I will be sampling the freebie market. I will keep you posted.

If anyone in the forum is around and want to share a table and a few beers at some local facility, PM me.

By the way, it's 16 ºC and dropping. Lousy choice for a mongering weeking.

One last question to the forum. Better alternatives for normal/semi-pros on a wednesady night?

Regards from the chilly Kiev.

I have also noticed that american girls behave much differently. Once an american girl left me because she said in USA I was treated as a queen by my boyfriend and american boys know how to treat women like princesses. These girls have certain guidelines and are influenced by feminism.

In Ukraine, Russia somebody has to understand the slavicorthodox mentality of giving and being generous, that is the girl gives plenty of love and expects you to give plenty of emotion, or even financial help, whatever you have. She offers and waits for offer, if you offer she will offer you back. (Now westernization changes it gradually). This is not the case in catholic countries (Poland) where there are strong ethics and rules. It does also not regard protestant countries (free beahaviour, atomic responsibility). In catholic countries the girl will punish you if she does not like your behaviour, in orthodox countries she will give more love to compensate for something she thinks she has done wrong.

I noticed in Carribean club an american starting to speak with the girl I had picked up there. I was amazed, he knew russian phrases and was doing exactly the right thing, asking the right questions, etc. However it was very mechanical, he lacked the soul. On the other hand british guys who completely lack any pick-up skills and just cannot talk and behave the right way to girls get laid all the time. It is impossible to pick up girls when there are british guys around. I think their attitude brings it, arrogance, british charm, they seem more interesting, extraordinary. Italians are also good they can talk to girls very well, they are dressed in fashion, are superficial and very pleasant. They tend to bring girls to larger companies where they create a lot of fun with their friends. Arabs, Turks are dangerous, they just try to not let you approach the girls they want to hit and like Latins have a pretty much macho attitude.

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]

It is amazing how difficult it is to find BBBJ on the pro scene. There is one website (and I will try and find, I think it has been mentioned here) and it features nearly all the women will do BBBJ.

On the other hand, my semi-pros and "normal" girls do BBBJ and most no condom at all. These 2-3 (and it rotates, one drops out and a new one is added) girls are my "regulars" and usually are single or divorced mothers. If they have other men, I think it is the same situaion, the see the same guy for as long as he does not tire of them.

And I guess that is part of the equation. How fast do you tire of them?

Charlie Sheen is famous for saying "You do not pay a prostitute for sex, you pay them to leave".

It is very true. How many times have you fucked a girl, cum still in her hair and face and you cannot get rid of her fast enough?

If I see a girl once or twice a week, it seems to be the best. I am happy to see and fuck them again and it has been long enough that I am not tired of them.

It is interesting to me actually, that I am finding that a woman to me is a matter of degree to how much I want her to stick around if we are not fucking.

I think they range from girls who I want to send away as soon as possible after sex (the vast majority) to girls I actually like and do not mind them hanging around (usually for more sex) to those (one) who I can have in my flat for a week or two and not tire of her.

Unfortunately, this one is the one I desire sex with the least. And she is the best girl (in terms of looks and personality) of them all. Just my luck. I find the "perfect" girl and I do not like fucking her. I'd rather fuck any other girl. It's that bad. Nothing wrong with her, she is just not the girl I like in bed.

I am 50, she is 23 and most guys will agree a solid 8 at least. She would make a perfect wife if I had the desire to fuck her 2, 3, 4 times a day.

Cuts my hair, "deletes" my "ear beard", prepares so much food for me it spoils before I can eat it all, cleans my flat. She says she is taking care of her "pig". If I married this girl, she would wipe my ass and change my "depends" until the day I croak in her loving arms.

And, all the while I can be sitting at the computer trying to find another girl to fuck and she will help me. She will call them for me if they do not speak good english and help me to meet them.

When I go to her city, she basically lives with me, going to work during the day. I see the girls I can see during the day and if I have to see a girl in the evening, I tell her I will call her and tell her when she can come "home".

She has found a bra and panties in the bedsheets from 2 different 18yr olds I had at the same time. (I swear women do this on purpose so you get busted by the next girl). What did she do? Threw them in the trash, changed the sheets on the bed and I fucked her that night. Off to work the next morning, leaving me to see my other girls.

I think there are 3 major levels in the brain and I think the quality of the relatinship depends largely on how well you connect on these levels.

I have read about the "triune" brain. Briefly, there are 3 centers of the brain. The body (sex), the heart (emotions) and the mind (intellect).

I think most of these sex encounters we all have are with women we connect with, of course, with the body, or sexual desires we all have. If you start connecting on an emotional and/or intellectual level, I think the interest in each other beyond sex develops and this is where we start having deeper or more serious relations, if that is what you are looking for or want. I think even if it is something you are not looking for, it happens if you meet that right combination in any particular girl.

I think if I find a girl I connect with on all three levels, I'll run off with her and live near the sea in crimea or something and fuck her brains out until I die. Preferably of a sudden heart attack during sex.

Which phone are you talking about Robert? The Razr or the N93i? The Razr was all over the place this time last year in Kiev. You see less of it now because it is passe - Samsung sliders seem to be the current 'in' phone. The upscale girls seem to be carrying the long slim metallic Nokia slider, the one with the battery that last about an hour, most of them are already on their sponor to buy them a Sirrocco (take note Hecker). You won't be seeing much of the N93i in Kiev, it's too big and too much of a techie phone. Anyone who has the $1k+ it costs in Kiev to drop on it is going to buy a fashion phone. BTW - the video I posted of the Connection was taken using a N93. Considering the camera was about 30 meters away it does a good job.

Spanish, I'm not at all surprised that the girls at RP are refusing to do BBBJ's. Most of the pro's won't do it anymore and only a small percentage of the semi pro's. Either it goes hand in hand with the $300/hr prices or too many of the girls were getting HSV or HPV.