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Cloud9 Seeker,
<what's the point of having condoms if her tongue was in my throat half the time?>
You cannot be serious, can you ?
Why don't you go reading good advice from authoritative sources ? I suggest the CDC at www.cdc.gov .
As far as I know, French kissing is not such a high risk activity. But if you feel uncomfortable, just don't do it.
Seydlitz - I certainly checked out CDC. Did you?
This from yahoo/health: (http://health.yahoo.com/health/centers/hiv_aids/101)
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Q: Can HIV be spread through kissing?
A: Although studies have found tiny amounts of HIV in the saliva of some people with HIV, researchers have found no evidence that HIV is spread to other people through kissing. However, the CDC recommends against "French" or open-mouthed kissing because of the possibility of contact with blood if the people kissing have any cuts or sores in the mouth.
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So, yes, I am serious. Risk might be low, but being a newbie, I am wondering what other pundits choose to do and what the norm among fellow members is.
Realistically, kissing is not a high risk activity for STD transmission. Yes, you can get an STD if your partner and you have open sores and transmit blood to each other, and certainly you can transmit herpes, generally HPV1, that way, as well as Hep B (but of course all smart LOS mongers have had their Hep shots, right?) There are also possibilities of transmitting gonorrhea (though you'd have to have your tongue pretty much massaging her vocal chords) and syphilis (only in the early infective stages, and you'd generally see a sore on the lip) via kissing, but overall these and the other risks are low to the point that [i]most[/i] authorities consider kissing to be safe sex.
In the single case that documents HIV transmission via kissing, both partners had severe dental and gum problems, including canker sores, gingivitis, oral hairy leukoplakia, and periodontitis. So obviously, the circumstances in which HIV can be transmitted through kissing are rare. The CDC recommends against prolonged open-mouthed kissing with an infected partner based on this, but if you read the actual report where this case is documented you find the following "Although the exact route of transmission in this report cannot be determined, the [i]most likely possibility[/i] is that the woman became infected..." this way, and that "such exposure [i]may[/i] have occurred during "deep kissing." (My italics.) This is a couple that also had vaginal sex six times a month over the course of a year, had an incident of condom breakage, shared at times a razor and toothbrush, and seemed basically to be pretty haphazard about hygiene in general, so it's hard to put a huge amount of stock in the conclusions of the report regarding kissing, as the report itself notes that "other exposures to the man's blood or semen cannot be excluded." Basically, in other words, they don't exactly know, but they suspect this is how it happened, and the researchers certainly got a lot more attention from their conclusions this way than if they had decided that plain old sex had been the cause.
I say kiss away, unless you happen to be someone who's got severe dental problems, because the STD risks are nothing really to worry about. There are far more serious things with STDs on which to focus concern.
Joe Zop
even if the risk is low, it isn't ZERO.
Seydlitz
I feel uncomfortable with it. It's not just HIV. Would you kiss a BJ bar girl or one of Marc's chicks who also use to lick the customers a-holes ? I won't.
Take care
Traveler:
I would not kiss a BJ bar girl because I would not take one out. In the rare occasions (2 !) I have been to a BJ bar, it was for a BJ. The ladies there are good at what they do, but they are nothing to write home about, and not much to take home either.
Similarly, I would not kiss an Eden girl because I hate the place and its obnoxious owner, and would not be likely to be in physical contact with one.
So, in a nutshell, I do not feel uncomfortable with kissing a girl in general terms, but I am quite selective of my partners.
Anal rimming is an increasingly widespread practice in LOS, in massage parlours in particular (I routinely got it at Poseidon or Baron's for example), and a great thing to enjoy as the receiver. So it is not only Marc's ladies who lick customers a-holes, as you graphically put it :)
Anyhow, there is hardly any "dirty" sexual practice, provided that strict personal hygiene is enforced, as it is mostly the case among Thais. I am way more concerned by the potential presence of faecal colliforms on the hands of the cook preparing my meal in any restaurant, and not only in LOS for one, than on the tongue of a sex provider.
Considering that I only consort with young, clean, apparently healthy ladies, I reckon that the risk of getting infected by something serious is low enough compared to the enjoyment of French kissing.
However, I agree that intimate physical contact with a sexually promiscuous partner entails some level of risk, and I do understand and fully respect those like you who feel uncomfortable with kissing a P4P TG.
Cloud9 Seeker,
point well taken.
I meant that you cannot seriously mean that whatever risk created by a tongue in your mouth defeats the protective purpose of wearing a condom.
Forgive my being obsessive with the careful use of words in the context of safe sex, as old hands of this forum will testify, I am.
Seydlitz
that was only an example since we know each other and I remember your good taste and high standards regarding girls.
It's more the imagination that the girl just had a dick in her mouth or her tongue was close to body parts that should never even come close to my face than the real danger of getting infected. The girls are usually very clean but you do not know anything about the hygiene of the last few customers.
Take care
Guys (and Seydlitz):
Thanks for providing the feedback - I came to the conclusion that French kissing is rather low-risk, but care is still required. Next time, I will think twice before opening my mouth.
Seydlitz- in my week in Thailand, NOT ONCE have I picked a non-bar girl; they were all bar workers alright. I can see why you're as comfortable with the kissing as you say you are - unfortunately, due to the short-time visit, I only frequented the bars (and a MP).
Anal rimming in Thailand! How did I miss that?? Man, I must go back to Thailand - so many things to do and so little time. I wonder if the girls at Darling do anal rimming - do you just ask the manager of the MP which girl does it or what?
(Sorry for going off topic)
Thanks,
Cloudy
Traveler, the only zero STD-risk sexual activity is personal masturbation -- even with a condom you've still got some degree of risk. You are far, far more at risk with the use of multiple partners than from deep kissing someone, so none of us is exactly speaking from some high plane of absolute safety here.
Personally I don't have any big thing about kissing some woman because she might have sucked somebody's dick or whatever, as that's what I want her to do to me, and if I'm gonna be worried about it I'm basically going to end up with a sexual partner I find unsatisfying. The mouth tends to clean itself -- that's what saliva does -- so if she's been blowing or licking some gother guy in the last hour and she's not infected with the specific goodies I mentioned in the specific ways I mentioned, then there's little to worry about.
We've all got our particular areas of personal squeamishness, but that doesn't mean they're based in fact or logic.
Joe Zop
LOL, I want them to do the very same thing.
As I have already said, I am uncomfortable with the imagination of another dick in her mouth just a few hours/minutes ago. If you only see the scientific/medical point of view, congrats. I can't. Also like to avoid any unneccesary risk.
Cloud9 Seeker,
I do not like Darling too much, but last time I was there, I got anal rimming from the lady as a standard. No need to ask for it.
It is never sure that any particular lady will perform, and asking the papasan may be a good idea.
IMHO anal rimming is standard fare as a complement to BBBJ in massage parlors. If the lady does not do it on her own, then get her to lick your balls, push her head down and raise your butt. I am sure she will get the hint :)
Guys,
You want to talk about AR risks and other risks involved and the fact that a couple of minutes ago the same girl's mouth was sucking another guy's dick.
If you are familiar with the scene in China, the risks are even higher. It's like playing with fire. Really. No joke.
I believe that TGs have a reasonable level of knowledge about STD/AIDS so they know a bit more than those village girls in China.
Just my 2 cents, but don't shoot me down,
AM2
Seydlitz - gotcha.
Thanks for the heads up. Will do! ;-)
I just don't like kissing these girls because they all have rank breath. Even the hot ones. Seriously, that stuff thats lodged between their mossy teeth is a mixture of rotten thai food, plaque, sperm, and poo. I had to get this one chick to use mouthwash and it still didnt get rid of the smell.
I found that I was better off when I fucked the hotel receptionist and the waitress at a bar. I guess they have less partners, and less chance of stds. They also seemed to have marginally better dental hygene. Dudes, when you're paying them, give them a complimentary pack of floss to go along with it. Tell them that americans use it and they're sure to comply.