Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1529119]I buy 20mg Tadalafil (generic Cialis) which I cut into four 5mg doses and take daily. I normally buy a year's supply at a time online, which ends up costing me about US$0.55 per dose. On my last trip I bought 10 tabs at a Pharmacy on lower Sukhumvit and paid about THB100 each as I recall.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Friar Tuck; 1531012]Hi,

Any idea of the price for 20mg Cialis 8 pack. My free supply has dried up, damn it.

Thanks.

Tuck[/QUOTE]Have you ever thought to RTFF? My post is from 5 days ago.

[QUOTE=Darmstadter; 1530565]Western,

Thanks for your reply. I agree I can't believe all girls are going to pack up and leave like I have read at different websites. I'll probabaly just stay a few days in Pattaya and the bulk of my time in BKK.

Thanks again for your helpful info.[/QUOTE]You better believe! The girls are not showing up at all! Some days you see a lot of girls and then you go back the next day and wonder Where did they all go?

Believe it! Its a mass exodus. Imagine Rainbow 4 with 8-10 girls on stage during prime-time. Better to stay in room and master bait!

[QUOTE=FRHolmes; 1530479]Funny thing I saw last night. Arab town computer shop. Arabic based guys left Arabic working girl brought out the deoderizer or perfume and gave the place a few shots to eliminate the smell, could have been Indians.

Theremae is such a non-exciting place to shop for girls. If it works for you great! Better than the street scene.

Without barfine I've seen a girl 10 times in less than 3 months. I pay 2600 baht for 1 hour. If she in agogo setting I would have to pay say 3400 baht. That 800 baht makes a difference to me. This girl wo a doubt is a Superstar-her problem is she is Lao.

Business decision? Better word is value.

Rainbow 1 superstar who gets giddy. Thats her personality, I doubt its an act. I too see many R1 girls who are just good looking who don't get customers regularly. Thats what strikes me everytime I go there. Also despite the good faces I just am not enthused about the place-maybe the girls give off bad vibes.

Theres not many girls who can be choosy with their customers. The majority are just not what the Ippuns like.[/QUOTE]Superstar? Is that the one from Rainbow 4? I thought you barfined her over 19 times last fall? Or did you skip the barfine and just meet her OTC?

[QUOTE=FRHolmes; 1531048]You better believe! The girls are not showing up at all! Some days you see a lot of girls and then you go back the next day and wonder Where did they all go?

Believe it! Its a mass exodus. Imagine Rainbow 4 with 8-10 girls on stage during prime-time. Better to stay in room and master bait![/QUOTE]Right, the next day they show up, and that's because Thailand among other things doesn't have a food stamp program. The tourist industry has been decimated, and while jobs are available for Thais. They don't pay much, and Go Go dancing still pays pretty decently (600 baht per night apparently) Some girls in Rainbow 4 are just too shy to even approach customers, and this includes some reasonably cute girls. If they notice you are looking at them on stage for an extended period, when they step off stage sometimes they will sit beside you, but many are just too afraid to initiate conversations with customers. That type of thing is not going to happen to average blokes in London or New York, as Bangkok really is a true fantasy land.

As an example a few weeks back, there was this (I believe new to R4) girl-next-door type slender and cute girl (no not a stunner per se but very very cute nonetheless) and I am sitting right at the stage and I am looking up at her, and other girls, but I guess more at her, and of course she's making eye contact and so forth. So she comes off stage and sits next to me but doesn't say a thing to me, i guess waiting for me to talk,. but I wasn't planning take out nor did i want to buy a ladydrink at that moment, so I didn't say anything. So she's there about 15 minutes while meanwhile I am looking up at other girls, so she then all off a sudden in a huff (looking exasperated) gets up and sits on the other side of the bar, and gestures something, sort of a frustrated expression. to the mamasan Then a Japanese guy motions her over, but he only buys just one ladydrink but doesn't bar fine her and then he goes onto to another girl, and when this happens, she looks embarrased and disappears completely into the back room or outside. Point is many of these girls (Go Go, Bar girls, Soapy whatever) are somewhat normal girls who happen to also be working girls, but many are not hardened as one would typically see in the west.

Step back for a moment, the girl is actually embarrassed about not being selected to go to the hotel to have sex with a stranger. Like I said, its a fantasyland in this cityi

I saw what had to be the shortest barfine ever. I thought it was 15 minutes-no, the girl said it was 10 minutes. Don't know if she included travel time.

I also see a lot of shy girls. I think they do get embarrassed if you look at them too much. If they are new I'm sure they will learn just because a guy likes to look at you it doesn't mean he wants to spend money on you. A guy staring is just a start.

Rainbow 1 on Wednesday had a lot of barfining going on. Very rarely see that. Good for them.

Sometimes I think Rainbow 2 should merge with another Rainbow. LOL.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1531154]Point is many of these girls (Go Go, Bar girls, Soapy whatever) are somewhat normal girls who happen to also be working girls, but many are not hardened as one would typically see in the west.

The girl is actually embarrassed about not being selected to go to the hotel to have sex with a stranger. Like I said, its a fantasyland in this cityi[/QUOTE]Thanks for sharing this story. It illustrates two points that gents new to the Bangkok's sex scene should note. I know you understand exactly what was going on, but someone new to the forum may benefit from some elaboration.

Her reaction was because she lost face, which is one of the worst things that can happen to a Thai. I'm not sure how to avoid situations like this. From your perspective there's nothing wrong with gawking at the lady. And if you don't want to buy her a lady drink or bar fine her that's your business. On the other hand you can't fault the lady for sitting next to you. You were staring at her. She was just reacting to what she took to be an invitation. Her job was then to get you to buy her a lady drinks and bar fine her. She failed. She was humiliated. She lost face in front of her bosses and co-workers.

Second, my hunch is this young lady was relatively new to the gogo scene; and as you point out, she probably comes from a pretty "normal" background. In a month or so she will be hardened. However even the hardened ladies can get pissed if a regular customer who has been bar fining them suddenly switches to a new girl. Again, this causes them to lose face. Some of the old hands make a point of look for a new lady in a venue at which they haven't been bar fining any of the ladies recently.

To us the ways of the Thais can seem strange at times. To the Thais we can seem to act crazy at times.

I should also add. It is true that sex workers are not stigmatized in Thailand the same way they are in countries like the USA. I am much more likely to run into working girls in Thailand who are still "relatively normal" than in the USA. One more reason why I think Thailand in general and Bangkok in particular are a monger's paradise.

My approach is to follow the advice, "When in Rome ..." On my last visit I asked a person in my hotel for some information. It soon became clear the man had no idea what I wanted. So he smiled and handed me some irrelevant documents. Rather than pressing him I just smiled, took the papers and thanked him. I let him save face. He was relieved, but I never got my questions answered. That's Thailand.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1531177]Thanks for sharing this story. It illustrates two points that gents new to the Bangkok's sex scene should note. I know you understand exactly what was going on, but someone new to the forum may benefit from some elaboration.

Her reaction was because she lost face, which is one of the worst things that can happen to a Thai. I'm not sure how to avoid situations like this. From your perspective there's nothing wrong with gawking at the lady. And if you don't want to buy her a lady drink or bar fine her that's your business. On the other hand you can't fault the lady for sitting next to you. You were staring at her. She was just reacting to what she took to be an invitation. Her job was then to get you to buy her a lady drinks and bar fine her. She failed. She was humiliated. She lost face in front of her bosses and co-workers.

Second, my hunch is this young lady was relatively new to the gogo scene; and as you point out, she probably comes from a pretty "normal" background. In a month or so she will be hardened. However even the hardened ladies can get pissed if a regular customer who has been bar fining them suddenly switches to a new girl. Again, this causes them to lose face. Some of the old hands make a point of look for a new lady in a venue at which they haven't been bar fining any of the ladies recently.

To us the ways of the Thais can seem strange at times. To the Thais we can seem to act crazy at times.

I should also add. It is true that sex workers are not stigmatized in Thailand the same way they are in countries like the USA. I am much more likely to run into working girls in Thailand who are still "relatively normal" than in the USA. One more reason why I think Thailand in general and Bangkok in particular are a monger's paradise.

My approach is to follow the advice,"When in Rome." On my last visit I asked a person in my hotel for some information. It soon became clear the man had no idea what I wanted. So he smiled and handed me some irrelevant documents. Rather than pressing him I just smiled, took the papers and thanked him. I let him save face. He was relieved, but I never got my questions answered. That's Thailand.[/QUOTE]So to prevent girls from losing face are you saying don't look at them or show interest. What a bunch of crock!

Theres very few girls who can close the deal most of the time. All these face losers seem to be ok with it.

Humiliated because drink was not cumming? Humiliation by being a prostitute- that I can see! I'm humiliated more by being their customers!

[QUOTE=FRHolmes; 1531338]So to prevent girls from losing face are you saying don't look at them or show interest. What a bunch of crock!

Theres very few girls who can close the deal most of the time. All these face losers seem to be ok with it.

Humiliated because drink was not cumming? Humiliation by being a prostitute- that I can see! I'm humiliated more by being their customers![/QUOTE]Mr Kausch also said "I'm not sure how to avoid situations like this." so he's not saying dancers shouldn't be gawked at, and in fact that's why customers visit R4 or any other Go Go in the first place (I mean its not like you can shoot pool or something). Basically customers visit the club to buy a drink and gawk at half naked women dancing, and sometimes buy ladydrinks and sometimes barfine them. That's basically what occurs in a Go Go.

The reason i was focused on this particular dancer was because I couldn't figure out whether she was new or not, or whether I was confusing her with another dancer, so I was sneaking looks at her more than normal. and of course she is only like 5 feet away. I so believe she is new, or at least I hadn't seen her before on dozens of prior visits to R4. I believe most dancers have better than average situational awareness, as they seem to know who is focused on them and who is not. Of course in R4 a stunner like #15 knows she is being looked at alot, but she will push her ass out and her fake tits forward a bit more when she catches you on an extended glance, and I've never seen her send out a bad vibe to anyone. Now Mai #196 when she notices someone looking she will turn that (amazing) ass right toward and give you a special show. I've seen her get 1000 baht tips a number of times for her special shows on stage. Great girl and great fun, a real gem.

Often I am right at stage side but one time (on a pretty crowded night but barfines were light) I was on the left side but 3/4ths the way back at a table, and I see this very hot girl on stage, but to get a better look I am blocking light out, sort of like someone using binoculars, to get a better look, and sure enough about 20 seconds later the girl on stage is doing the same (hand over her eyes) thing back at me. I couldn't figure out how she could see me that quickly. Its obvious many dancers are scanning the room at all times.

I think this was before I began seeing a lot of Coyotes in there, perhaps a month back, but probably after the "Shutdown Bangkok" demonstrations started going and the convention business decimated, and it was a Tues or Wednesday or something so customer traffic was light. IN fact when I entered the club which was later after 11 pm was exactly ONE customer, sitting on the right, a young guy who had a fairly hot dancer hanging on him. So I go to the left side (one third the way down), and sit on the tiered seating (its setup like Shark in Soi Cowboy like a theater) , so I' m sitting there trying to blend in and an keep a low profile (in fact I had already barfined out a Soi 4 regular bar earlier in the evening) so I am just checking the talent. LOL, no way was I going to blend in. There are 7 or 8 dancers on stage, and most on the hot sidce. A couple dancers on stage immediately start whipping their asses around toward and really turnd it on, and then pointing to their ass and then pointing toward me, but then they start to look (in a fun way) pissed when I am giving the "no thanks no right now" wave off (flat hand signal) and these girls are hot so they start kicking it up even more. (no loss of face here believe me). So I point over toward the mamasan and then point toward them and have my left index finger meet my right index finger, basically telling them they can always get barfined by and get it on with the Mamasan.

Meanwhile looking toward the right side (toward the end of the stage as you enter) as I see this tall, hot, young fresh faced, borderline stunner, with a great ass too, and based on dancer style among other things she's not a Coyote as far as I can tell, so I start to focus on her her from an angle (she can't see me as she is looking toward the entry way to the club) but meanwhile since I am looking toward my right there are girls in the background (on break) sitting down close to floor level (right side as you enter the club) who mistakenly believe I am looking at them. So one of them spreads her legs and pulls her short skirt up toward her chest, basically flashes at me. That's a moment (among others) when you know for sure you're not in London or New York, but instead a sort of hotties land of Oz.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1531177]I'm not sure how to avoid situations like this.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=FRHolmes; 1531338]So to prevent girls from losing face are you saying don't look at them or show interest. What a bunch of crock!

Theres very few girls who can close the deal most of the time. All these face losers seem to be ok with it.

Humiliated because drink was not cumming? Humiliation by being a prostitute- that I can see! I'm humiliated more by being their customers![/QUOTE]I guess my post was too long and one of the main points got buried. Notice I'm acknowledging this situation will come up from time to time and there is no way to avoid it. The ladies do get pressure from management to generate lady drink sales and bar fines. Prostitution is not most ladies' plan A. Many ladies hate working in gogos and drink heavily to cope. Why humiliate yourself? Personally, gogos are low on my list of things to do when I'm in BKK. I prefer the MPs, especially for outcall.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1531638]I guess my post was too long and one of the main points got buried. Notice I'm acknowledging this situation will come up from time to time and there is no way to avoid it. The ladies do get pressure from management to generate lady drink sales and bar fines. Prostitution is not most ladies' plan A. Many ladies hate working in gogos and drink heavily to cope. Why humiliate yourself? Personally, gogos are low on my list of things to do when I'm in BKK. I prefer the MPs, especially for outcall.[/QUOTE]Pressure from management to perform? I just don't see it at the top agogos.

The girls have to be able to work on their own terms, for gods sake they fuck for a living. I'm sure a high pressure mammasan would not have a crew to boss around.

Time after time, most girls wait to be called over before working their charms, if they have any.

I think prostitution is their plan A. From the time they were born, they were groomed to be a hooker! Sad but true.

Can't argue that mps are better places to have sex with strange men.

Stickman also said many girls drink before their shift. If true shouldn't I see more dancers falling off the stage.

I'm not saying prostitution is a good thing. But Thai girls do it better than most.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1531638]I guess my post was too long and one of the main points got buried. Notice I'm acknowledging this situation will come up from time to time and there is no way to avoid it. The ladies do get pressure from management to generate lady drink sales and bar fines. Prostitution is not most ladies' plan A. Many ladies hate working in gogos and drink heavily to cope. Why humiliate yourself? Personally, gogos are low on my list of things to do when I'm in BKK. I prefer the MPs, especially for outcall.[/QUOTE]It seems to me if they work in MPs (Soapies or Oils) , or for that matter are independents working Nana Plaza. Thermae, or Beer Garden or whereever, they are "working girls" and they know it, so I would think they would be drinking up a storm in those venues also. Personally I don't see all this hard drinking by dancers in the Go Go's. Look, if in the west one assumes in a typical american or British city perhaps only 1/2 of 1% of 18 to 35 year old females are "working girls", and in Bangkok it could well be lets say 4%, that means perhaps 8 times as many women (in percentage terms) are in the trade in Bangkok. I believe the type of women that typically gets in the trade in lets say NYC or London are often quite different than a woman getting in the trade in Bangkok. I'm not saying this is an absolute rule, but its generally true.

I don't know the real number (it could be 2x or 6x or 10x, not sure) but obviously its higher multiple in percentage terms in Bangkok than the west, and given the sheer volume of women in the business, that means a lot of normal girls are in the trade, either full time or part-time.

As for the Go's Go's I believe they only make 50 baht per lady drink versus ST where they will make at least 40 times that, so while perhaps reluctant I am not sure if barfining is only a Plan B.

While I like Go Go's, I happen to find regular (non Go Go) bar girls to be quite interesting, with many surprisingly hot, and some perhaps not quite as hot but often with a fun personality, and they can be fun to hang with and/or barfine. Not sure about oils, but the biggest problem i have with soapies, is that you have to pick them w/o checking out whether the vibe is good, (and I'm referring to their perception of you) as one wants a girl that is comfortable with you, otherwise its not good for either party. And soapies there really is no way to check out that vibe ahead of time unless they are sideliners.

For cultural reasons, economic need, even the non judgemental nature of Buddhism itself or other reasons, sex for money (while still looked down upon by many Thais) just doesn't have the degree of stigma in
Bangkok that is typical in the west, and that draws in lots of comparatively normal women, which I believe its a good thing because (all things equal) it means more attractive women are in the trade. And I find if you don't treat them like (skipping the W word) "working girls" they will in turn treat you pretty well.

[QUOTE=Western787;1531815]Personally I don't see all this hard drinking by dancers in the Go Go's.[/QUOTE]My understanding is the gogos have what they call the alcoholics corner where the hardcore drinkers hang out when they're not otherwise occupied. I also understand if you hang out in a gogo before it opens you'll see many of the ladies throwing back one after another shots of Thai whisky to get ready to perform. The last gogo I was in the lady I ended up bar fining was taking shots of tequila as her "lady drinks." She ordered them two at a time and downed three rounds in about ten minutes before going to a short time hotel with me. She was a lot of fun in Spanky's and a lousy fuck.

[QUOTE=Western787;1531815]As for the Go's Go's I believe they only make 50 baht per lady drink versus ST where they will make at least 40 times that, so while perhaps reluctant I am not sure if barfining is only a Plan B.[/QUOTE]At one time the girls had a quota of a minimum number of lady drinks and bar fines per month.

[QUOTE=Western787;1531815]I happen to find regular (non Go Go) bar girls to be quite interesting, with many surprisingly hot, and some perhaps not quite as hot but often with a fun personality, and they can be fun to hang with[/QUOTE]Some claim one reason there are fewer hot girls in the gogos and MPs is more of them are using social media to hook up with men. There you can find pros, semipros and regular girls who are looking for some fun. With more and more younger farangs working good jobs in Bangkok supposedly some Thai ladies are hoping to hook up with a keeper. A year ago I hooked up with a lady in her mid-to-late thirties who spoke Thai, English and Japanese. She said she traveled to the USA and Japan more frequently on business. She was a fashion designer and liked to hook up with mature farang businessmen for dinner, intelligent conversation and sex. She was smart, hot and a very good but different kind of fuck than a SW. Before she left when I reached for my money she objected saying I had already paid for dinner; but then she accept THB500 for a taxi home.

[QUOTE=FRHolmes; 1531808]Pressure from management to perform? I just don't see it at the top agogos.

The girls have to be able to work on their own terms, for gods sake they fuck for a living. I'm sure a high pressure mammasan would not have a crew to boss around.

Time after time, most girls wait to be called over before working their charms, if they have any.

I think prostitution is their plan A. From the time they were born, they were groomed to be a hooker! Sad but true.

Can't argue that mps are better places to have sex with strange men.

Stickman also said many girls drink before their shift. If true shouldn't I see more dancers falling off the stage.

I'm not saying prostitution is a good thing. But Thai girls do it better than most.[/QUOTE]The mamasans do act like hookers or ex hookers all the time, but as far as the Go Go dancers themselves its usually because its very late at night and there is next to zero customers in a club (case I cited was in Fantasia a girl spreading her legs and snapping her dress up to her chest, and girls on stage pointing to their asses and then back at the customer to entice you to bang them) but that'not typical in the major Go Go's such as Rainbow 4 or Baccarra and many other similar venues where (most times) the ladies between sets in fact sit quit demurely or modestly in the corner or stage side, and while invariably looking at customers across the room (note they rarely ever look at the stage) , they rarely follow up. These are not natural hookers, nor do I think most are "groomed". Most I believe are somewhat normal girls in a abnormal business, and the way they act between sets is consistent with that. Of course for the veterans the years can take their toll, but I don't think its their natural personalities at all

If they were even remotely "hooker like" they would certainly be more aggressive, as it seems to me many are leaving money on the table each shift, often missing out on ladydrinks or barfines. Why would a lady "groomed" for this business effetively toss away money? Even if one assumes the demur or shy thing is all an act, these girls are just not earning what they could. Nor (for example in R4 or similar places) do I see much evidence of heavy drinking with, and most in fact appear very sober all night long. I know Stickman has said this, but assuming some are becoming inebriated to allow them to do the job, who pays for all these drinks in the alleged "booze corner?

[QUOTE=Western787;1532102]Nor do I see much evidence of heavy drinking with, and most in fact appear very sober all night long. I know Stickman has said this, but assuming some are becoming inebriated to allow them to do the job, who pays for all these drinks in the alleged "booze corner?[/QUOTE]My personal experiences are most Thai SW drink very little if at all. Some are moderate drinkers; they'll have one drink and nurse it, which is quite a bit of alcohol considering their size. A small number are heavy drinkers. The lady who downed six shots in about ten minutes immediately comes to mind, but on my last trip I had a couple of ladies in my room who downed the better part of a liter of vodka in about 30 minutes. I had the rest. Of course this may just be me. Perhaps they're adjusting their attitude to get up the courage. ;)

In general I find the Thais drink less than people in the Americas and Europe.