Bangkok Reports

I've yet to make my trip to Bangkok but I've got alot of experience in the fkk's of Germany and I'll say one thing about "stunners". Alone, they command everybody's attention. In a group of likewise stunning women their view of themselves starts competing against the others. And many guys just like to look, turning down stunners left and right. And when a girl is turned down in favor of another, doubts start to creep in. I imagine go-go bars are much like the fkk clubs. My preference is much different from the next guy, the girls I'm attracted to are usually a notch below stunner level but have the attributes I prefer. I rarely go for the girls who think too highly of themselves since service usually goes down as the looks go up. There's something to be said about grabbing an attractive girl after she's been turned down by ten guys.

[QUOTE=Breadman;1532925]I've yet to make my trip to Bangkok but I've got alot of experience in the fkk's of Germany and I'll say one thing about "stunners". Alone, they command everybody's attention. In a group of likewise stunning women their view of themselves starts competing against the others. And many guys just like to look, turning down stunners left and right. And when a girl is turned down in favor of another, doubts start to creep in. I imagine go-go bars are much like the fkk clubs. My preference is much different from the next guy, the girls I'm attracted to are usually a notch below stunner level but have the attributes I prefer. I rarely go for the girls who think too highly of themselves since service usually goes down as the looks go up. There's something to be said about grabbing an attractive girl after she's been turned down by ten guys.[/QUOTE]Do us a favor, travel first, rant later. Suggestion: leave your western female psicology wisdom pills at home, they are not of much use in Asia.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1532920]Believing stunners in go Go's have trouble getting 2 customers a day just doesn't make sense.

Wasn't there a hottie over at Annies last fall and summer who was basically booked solid each day, and in fact she stopped doing overnights because she was so busy?[/QUOTE]I think you are thinking of #24 (Aor). She is still booked solid. I was lucky to see her on an overnight outcall in December. I booked it a couple of months in advance and Aey was considerate enough to honor the booking even though she was no longer letting Aor do outcalls. Aor told me from Friday night through Sunday night she goes from client to client with no breaks from the time she arrives until Annie's closes; and she could do outcalls practically every night if Aey would let her. I posted photos and wrote a couple of reviews. When she's not worn out, she's fantastic. Your general point is spot on. The girls with the at least decent looks and a reputation get as much or more business than they can handle. I doubt if the famous Apple at Cherry Massage (when her sister Cherry was still the owner) ever went short for customers.

[QUOTE=Breadman;1532925]I've yet to make my trip to Bangkok but I've got alot of experience in the fkk's of Germany and I'll say one thing about "stunners".[/QUOTE][QUOTE=El Flaco;1532932]Do us a favor, travel first, rant later. Suggestion: leave your western female psicology wisdom pills at home, they are not of much use in Asia.[/QUOTE]Whow cowboy! Get off your high horse. This was not a a rant. The guy acknowledged he has not visited Bangkok, but was sharing his experiences in the fkk's in Germany, which you can verify by reading his posts in the appropriate threads. Mongering practices vary somewhat with geography. I like learning from guys who have experience in other parts of the world. Why are you so hostile toward the guy? Seems like you have a problem. Maybe if you tell us about it we can help you. ;)

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1532957]Whow cowboy! Get off your high horse. This was not a a rant. The guy acknowledged he has not visited Bangkok, but was sharing his experiences in the fkk's in Germany, which you can verify by reading his posts in the appropriate threads. Mongering practices vary somewhat with geography. I like learning from guys who have experience in other parts of the world. Why are you so hostile toward the guy? Seems like you have a problem. Maybe if you tell us about it we can help you. ;)[/QUOTE]. He came up with theories that I know to not apply here. So the suggestion to try things first hand and then reporting instead of throwing long shots. Who hasn't done Thailand can't know how it is and should not speak about it.

[QUOTE=El Flaco;1532981]. He came up with theories that I know to not apply here. So the suggestion to try things first hand and then reporting instead of throwing long shots. Who hasn't done Thailand can't know how it is and should not speak about it.[/QUOTE]Come on, he just gave an insight in to human behavior, not a theory. I agree with his view point. Human behavior is the same all over the world. What is so different in Thailand. I have been to both places and others. It is pretty much the same.

[QUOTE=Duniawala;1532983]Come on, he just gave an insight in to human behavior, not a theory. I agree with his view point. Human behavior is the same all over the world. What is so different in Thailand. I have been to both places and others. It is pretty much the same.[/QUOTE]Yeah. Actually the same-same. Why do we bother to go places then. Give me a break!

[QUOTE=Duniawala;1532983]What is so different in Thailand. I have been to both places and others.[/QUOTE]So when were you last in BKK, how was your trip and where did you stay? Share your experience as its been awhile since you posted a field trip.

[QUOTE=Breadman;1532925]I've yet to make my trip to Bangkok but I've got alot of experience in the fkk's of Germany and I'll say one thing about "stunners". Alone, they command everybody's attention. In a group of likewise stunning women their view of themselves starts competing against the others. And many guys just like to look, turning down stunners left and right. And when a girl is turned down in favor of another, doubts start to creep in. I imagine go-go bars are much like the fkk clubs. My preference is much different from the next guy, the girls I'm attracted to are usually a notch below stunner level but have the attributes I prefer. I rarely go for the girls who think too highly of themselves since service usually goes down as the looks go up. There's something to be said about grabbing an attractive girl after she's been turned down by ten guys.[/QUOTE]If there was a mythical country somewhere so disconnected from the rest of the world that ultra beautiful women didn't know they were stunners, where therefore they offered all the benefits of great beauty w / o the potential downside (example possible egomania) then I would be much more attracted to stunners.

Otherwise cute women below stunner level can to me,have much more appeal. However that said, the sheer number of beauties in Thailand (particularly of course as one moves away from P44 into the broader female population) is so staggering I'm not sure how big the egos really are of typical "stunners" in for example Bangkok Go Go's anyways. The ego issue could be smaller than one might expect. I mean they have to notice the volume of beauties in this city, as ultra beautiful women seem to be everywhere. IMHO. New York doesn't compare nor does London.

Certainly many attractive women in Bangkok slightly below stunner level, don't quite seem to get-it as to how hot they would be if for example they lived in London or New York.

Not sure how you can compare stunners in the realm of FKK's versus in the context of Bangkok Go's Go's. Everyone has to pay to enter a FKK? Isn't that true? So the numbers of guys seeing a particular "stunner" is somewhat limited i would think. A large club like Rainbow 4 can on a busy weekend night have 500 plus patrons visiting that club over the evening. Isn't that 15 to 20 times a typical FKK? And the volume of customers is significant in regard to the question presented by the OP.

Note the OP said "'Even "top girls" are unlikely to have 3 or 4 barfines a night. I think they will go to make merit at the temple and thank the Buddha if they consistently have 2 barfines a night."

My point was that stunners within the same overall market (example Bangkok P4P) assuming they are also somewhat personable, willing to work hard, willing to give up a lot of their normal social life, and not too fussy about customers are generally going to be high earners, and even among different venues (Soapies. Go's Go's or wherever) over time the market itself will tend to equalize those earnings to some degree.

If El Flaco has a valid point it it this: when you're talking about "stunners" in one of the most advanced 1st world countries on the planet (example Germany) vs stunners in a city like Bangkok (that is within a 2nd world nation like Thailand), its gets a bit muddled up especially if you never visited Bangkok and seen for yourself all the beautiful women that are in this city.

[QUOTE=Duniawala;1532983]Come on, he just gave an insight in to human behavior, not a theory. I agree with his view point. Human behavior is the same all over the world. What is so different in Thailand. I have been to both places and others. It is pretty much the same.[/QUOTE]Minus the (usual bar girl type BS tall tales of various types usually tried on newbies) when you get right down to their basic personalities, Bangkok hotties (P4P or otherwise) GENERALLY seem to be a lot more modest and less affected than one might normally expect to encounter with comparable level 1st world women. THAT I believe is the basis of their appeal to westerners. They are certainly less spoiled, appreciate smaller things a lot more, and minus the (often business required) bullbleep, they are often surprisingly decent people.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1533004]If there was a mythical country somewhere so disconnected from the rest of the world that ultra beautiful women didn't know they were stunners, where therefore they offered all the benefits of great beauty w / o the potential downside (example possible egomania) then I would be much more attracted to stunners.

Otherwise cute women below stunner level can to me, have much more appeal. However that said, the sheer number of beauties in Thailand (particularly of course as one moves away from P44 into the broader female population) is so staggering I'm not sure how big the egos really are of typical "stunners" in for example Bangkok Go Go's anyways. I meanthey have to notice the volume of beauties in this city, as ultra beautiful women seem to be everywhere. IMHO. New York doesn't compare nor does London.

Certainly many attractive women in Bangkok slightly below stunner level, don't quite seem to get-it as to how hot they would be if for example they lived in London or New York.

Not sure how you can compare stunners in the realm of FKK's versus in the context of Bangkok Go's Go's. Everyone has to pay to enter a FKK? Isn't that true? So the numbers of guys seeing a particular "stunner" is somewhat limited I would think. A large club like Rainbow 4 can on a busy weekend night have 500 plus patrons visiting that club over the evening. Isn't that 15 to 20 times a typical FKK? And the volume of customers is significant in regard to the question presented by the OP.

Note the OP said "'Even "top girls" are unlikely to have 3 or 4 barfines a night. I think they will go to make merit at the temple and thank the Buddha if they consistently have 2 barfines a night."

My point was that stunners, assuming they are also somewhat personable, diligent, willing to give up a lot of their normal social life, and not too fussy about customers are generally going to be high earners, and even among different venues (Soapies. Go's Go's or wherever) over time the market itself will tend to equalize those earnings to some degree.[/QUOTE]Some food for thought there.

Actually Thailand and BKK specifically has changed immeasurably in the 15 years I have lived here. Back in '99 the city was far less sophisticated, had just opened its first Starbucks, The Emporium was the showcase mall, Paragon did not exist, women's fashion was years behind the West, women were still second class citizens, and the region was still reeling from the Asian crisis. Therefore lots more gals from all regions in the P4P scene.

Cowboy was an expat hangout with very little neon. 400 baht barfines. 1k all night, and 80 baht drinks. Thermae was filled with semi-pros toward the end of the month. Gals who came out a few times a month to supplement their small office salaries. Most of the punters were Western men mid to late 40s up, with the average age being 50ish. At 34 I was about the youngest in any bar or FL venue I would enter. There were a few Japanese about but they mainly stayed in Thaniya and rarely ventured to Nana or Cowboy. From my perspective attitudes were great and prices were very reasonable.

Fast forward a decade and a half and BKK is a sophisticated world class city with a foodie scene, boutique coffee roasters, average salaries that have increased 50% since '08, far more non-Westerners working and visiting here, countless young Farangs both male and female employed here, a thriving fashion scene, and women who now realize how attractive they are to the rest of the world's men. They dress well and there has been a bit of sexual revolution here. This week's BK Magazine talks about the best Valentine's sex positions and interviews some women about very naughty subjects. Could not have been done 10 years ago. Thai women are out screwing. A Durex survey two years ago shows them as the second most promiscuous in the world, behind only Ghana. This is what you get when women become aware and don't have the awful mantle of Christianity to throw off. What I would not give to be 34 again and in BKK now. I have many younger friends here who are dating smoking hot "regular" Thai girls. White skinned, educated, with good jobs. Gals whose families are not parasites. Gals who actually contribute to the relationship and bring more than the wetspot between their legs. These gals were just not available when I was a young buck in BKK. In the time since more and more have gone abroad to study, more Intl schools have opened here, and more internationals live in BKK. It is truly a world class city.

On the other hand, all of this has had a negative effect on the mongering scene. There are just fewer gals in the scene. Less competition mean higher prices, poor attitudes, and poor service. The gals call the shots and have for a time now. I remember a few years ago when a friend who owns several gogos in Cowboy and Nana said to me," These girls used to work for me; now I work for them." I think that is true all over the scene.

Being an oily guy I have noticed the changes in it as well. There are still some good gals to be found, but the combination of performance and looks is very hard to find. Oddly with more and more oilies opening the service has gotten worse not better. Lookers now flock to shops where they can get away with CBJ. 1 pop, and little effort, so in order to keep even moderately good looking gals the PSE shops have to allow them more leeway.

The writing is on the wall. The P4P scene will continue to change, and probably not for the better. With higher salaries in Thailand fewer and fewer gals will choose the biz and those that do will not be the cream of the crop. They really never were. One has to ask, with women achieving political and economic power (Thailand has more female CEOs than any other nation) , how long can places like Cowboy, Nana, and the huge soapy places survive? Not forever folks when over half your electorate is female. Enjoy it while you can.

[QUOTE=Western787;1533012]Minus the (usual bar girl type BS tall tales of various types usually tried on newbies) when you get right down to their basic personalities, Bangkok hotties (P4P or otherwise) GENERALLY seem to be a lot more modest and less affected than one might normally expect to encounter with comparable level 1st world women. THAT I believe is the basis of their appeal to westerners. They are certainly less spoiled, appreciate smaller things a lot more, and minus the (often business required) bullbleep, they are often surprisingly decent people.[/QUOTE]That is changing very quickly.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1533021]That is changing very quickly.[/QUOTE]Lets hope it lasts or some elements last a big longer, but yes I understand that change is occurring. Must have been pretty good 10 to 15 years back I would imagine. The alternatives don't look that good either, as I hear even in Burma they've gone from modest to spoiled in only a few years.

"Enjoy it while you can". NOw that is a good point.

Even though change is rapidly occuring in Bangkok, consider that feminist ballbusting in the west is getting worse all the time. Now at some point inspired by the west (and perhaps a President Hillary Clinton in the White House who will be delivering payback to her husband who among other things will be forced to wear an Apron and do vacuuming and dusting) Ms Clinton will be busy ballbusting in other countries, and feminists will overtake even Bangkok and probably turn the large soapie palaces into Feminist Indoctrination Buildings. For example Poseidan's 10 story building will be used to teach BALLBUSTING 101 and have special seminars on "How to turn men into Enuchs". The Lord building could well be turned into a prison for males questioning the superiority of females.

Yup, enjoy whats here, because change is on the way.

I've been an intermittent visitor for about twenty years, mostly on business with a little mongering on the side. The city has changed dramatically and in my opinion for the better. I'm not sure how much change I've seen in the mongering scene. I've also changed which confounds my perceptions. Seems like the quality has gone down. I wouldn't say the same about the quantity. There may just have been a shift in the sizes of different segments of the industry. As I've grown older very young women who might not have gotten a second glance from me in the past now look attractive; and what were once older ladies now look like younger ladies to me. Even with my glasses on, I question what I see.

Is the P4P scene changing? Everything changes; and changes everywhere seem to be accelerating. Will the current pattern of declining quality, poorer service and increasing prices continue? Don't be so sure. First, I'm not sure prices, adjusted for inflation, have gone up that much. I bet rents in Nana Plaza and Soi Cowboy have inflated more than the cost of drinks and bar fines. I'm not sure the ladies are charging more than their cost of living has increased. Maybe. I'm just not sure. My point is inflation is relative. Is the problem price increases in Bangkok or the failure of salaries and wages in developed countries to keep up with prices in Bangkok? Certainly in recent years Thailand's economy has grown more than the USA and EU.

Second, most people, even many so called experts, see change as a simple linear equation. A straight line with some defined slope. What is happening today will continue to happen in the future at some rate of change (the slope of the line). The problem is change, other than over very short intervals, is nonlinear. Not only do the rates of change accelerate and decelerate, the directions change as well. Think of the old saying, "What goes up must come down."

The current situation in Thailand is relevant to this point. At this moment the consensus opinion of economists in Thailand is the most likely future for the country is rather bleak. That is not to say they believe it will happen. They are saying of all the future possibilities the one that is most likely is very worrisome. There is very real concern that the costs of the rice scheme and the damage it has done to the rice industry have crossed the tipping point. Thailand has been supplanted by India and Vietnam and it will be a battle for Thailand to recapture market share. Japan, who is the largest investor in the Thai economy, rather than expanding it's industrial activities in Thailand is now looking at other countries for future investments. The amount of future debt Thailand's government will be forced to take on and the expected future cost of borrowing will take up more and more of the budget. This is a problem facing other countries, notably the USA, but Thailand's economy is smaller, the baht is not the US$ and the USA has a bunch of aircraft carriers. More money spent servicing debt means less money for infrastructure improvements, public education, health care, etc. The future these economists see is government default on debt (national bankruptcy is the term they are using), high unemployment and a declining standard of living.

As I was flying across the Pacific after my December visit I was wonder: what impact has the rice scheme had on the P4P industry? Rice farmers have been getting 50% above market for rice, which pumps a lot of extra money into the rural economy. There's a lot more money in circulation in many villages in large parts of the country. Would a few thousand more pretty young ladies from villages all over Thailand have descended on Bangkok over the past couple of years had it not been for the inflated prices farmers got for their rice? Sensible people think the rice scheme must and will soon end. But how many sensible people are in the government? It may end when the next government assumes power and starts to deal with the current mess. After a year or so will this mean an increase in the number of pretty young ladies dancing in the gogos? I don't know. Perhaps. Will the rice scheme be continued by the next government. Maybe, but only for a while. It is unsustainable and continuing it will only compress the time frame until the future crash the economists worry about occurs. And if that crash happens, I'm fairly confident the dance stages will be packed with pretty young ladies.

I don't know enough to know if these smart guys are right. I know enough to know I should always question my conclusions. And I've lived long enough to know the only constant is change and change constantly changes.