Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1540056]Really, you are condemning the attitudes and culture here? Well, it has certainly worked for Thais for some time now. Morally deficient? By whose standards? Yours? The West's? Give me a break. Honestly what are you comparing it to? America? The nation that invades others?

The path of least resistance is the way to travel here. Burden? Quit the contrary; making it easy on oneself is the name of the game.

If you think losing face is a "ruse" then you really are looking at it from an ethnocentric point of view. It is difficult for people to accept that cultural ways differing from their own can be functional. If you are indeed doing business or working in Thailand, it will be very difficult for you if you choose not to play by their rules. If you chose to live in Thailand, you should do your best to try to "fit in" as well as we foreigners can. Learn the language and do your best with the culture. If you are just coming here for P4P or for a meeting then that is something entirely different, and frankly with that limited knowledge you have very little room to comment on the "acceptability" of things here. 14 years is long enough for me to know I will never be Thai, nor will I every understand all the nuances her, but I can do my best to learn all I can, not make waves, and make my own life here as pleasant and stress free as possible and not be an eyesore or be offensive to the people who allow me to stay in their country.[/QUOTE]I am not condemning anything, I am stating the obvious, hard to have discourse with you because you keep changing the facts. This was not a discussion about culture or rules or not making waves. You're changing the chords of the song. But again, I am not convinced by your argument so I will keep doing this my way and in no way am I going to try to convince you of anything. Believe whatever you want.

[QUOTE=Hiihii;1540022]If you need to stray maybe your gf isn't the one for you![/QUOTE]Boy, didn't you ask the sixty-four thousand dollar question!

If a guy is in a happy relationship why would he need a steady diet of sex workers? Seems something is wrong; but I don't mean wrong in a moral sense.

When I've been unattached, I've fucked as many different women as I can. When I've been in an unhappy relationship that was falling apart, I've cheated on my partner. When I've been in a good relationship, I've had no desire to fool around behind my partner's back. At that time that woman satisfied all of my emotional and sexual needs. I had no need to seek sexual gratification from another woman. I loved and wanted to be faithful to my partner. Cheating would have hurt me, as I knew it would hurt her.

Now I understand why a guy who feels trapped in an unhappy marriage with a woman he does not love and is not physically attracted to has affairs. I'm not going to judge the fellow, nor blame him for his situation. We all make mistakes. We can marry the wrong woman. Religion, extended family, children, family finances, many reasons can make it too difficult to get out of an unhappy marriage. The need for a couple hours of bliss in the arms of a sexy young woman who is satisfying our sexual needs is understandable. I can understand having relationships outside the marriage: a regular girlfriend, a regular sex worker, or a series of affairs with non-pros or pros. The poor fellow is just dealing with a difficult situation, trying to hold a bad marriage together while occasionally satisfying emotional and sexual needs that are not being taken care of within the marriage.

I won't go into a consistent pattern of cheating on a girl friend. That is something I don't understand. One fling during a bad period in the relationship, I get that. I don't understand a need to have periodic sex outside a good relationship. I try not to pass judgment on others. I've encounter so many surprising situations in my life, it seems now nothing surprises me. When I see someone do something I don't understand, rather than criticize the bloke, I just assume I've never been in the same situation as he so who am I to judge.

I'm glad my life is simple now. I have my family and my friends, children and grandchildren. I'm not now nor ever expect to be in a romantic relationship. I can do anything I damn well please. I can fuck as many different woman as I wish. No need for lies and deception. It is a very liberating feeling. I don't need a wife or lover. I prefer my own company. I get along smashingly well with myself. No conflicts. No other person's needs to worry about. A couple of hours, an evening or a few days of superficial sex with an endless array of pretty young ladies engaged in what I think is a very noble profession takes care of whatever needs I, my family or friends cannot. Life is good.

[QUOTE=John Traveller; 1539941]Finally some posts with a balanced view here, from Western 787, Paul Kausch and Run Mann. Good!

Posters like Phordpahn, Enternational, Goatscrot do have SOME interesting stuff in their posts; like critcizing the naive tourist and sharing their experience of staying many years in Thailand. BUT; they take it WAY too long IMHO, and are themselves naive in believing what their girlfriends or "girlfriends" tell them. I find it mildly amusing that some expats (or is it "locals") after a while in this country feel that they are SO much above the tourists. And then become CONDITIONED to see it like the "good" girls or "good girls" see it. (The social pecking order.) At least the short-time tourist has the excuse of inexperience! To laugh openly at the sex-tourist and his "girlfriend" I find very inpolite.

That said, I see that there's different viewpoints based on where you stand in life, if you like the married Asian lifestyle: Good for you. The discussion turned into that subject with the last postings, but that's a different issue than the OP (Daddy San) started with.

Also interesting to see how some react to opposing views with aggressiveness and RHETORICAL QUESTIONS WHICH MAKE DISCUSSION DIFFICULT. Adversarial. And recurrent here is the general disdain for p4p: "painfully true that it's there" and so on, as one poster put it. Why?

To the OP: Thailand and Thais has a RELATIVELY liberal wiew on p4p, BUT; not even here is it regarded as "totally nice", and even less so when there are foreigners involved. However, it's VERY seldom for them to harass like you described, but that's also because they are polite poeple, they don't want to make other people lose face. However they may THINK negatively about you. Also: I don't' find your question silly, on the conrary I find it interesting and a challange to answer.

My suggestion: Don't care what other people think, just enjoy your time with the p4p-women here. Including "parading" in the street. Also enjoy GFE with them it that's your cup of tea. Just have in the back of your head that it's a game.

I hope you all out there have a nice time with your tea, whatever cup it is in.[/QUOTE]Actually none of what I write is based on what my girlfriend tell me. I don't feel in any way that residents are "above" tourist. We simply have different priorities and different points of view.

I would say P4P is "tolerated" in Thailand. Technically it is illegal, but so are lots of things in this nation. Laws are enforced only when they need to be, again a very different philosophy then we have in the West. Most Thais loathe P4P and hookers are generally looked down upon. I wish this was not the case. It would be nice if it were legal and a legitimate form of work. Blame males for that actually as most men want to "own" women sexually.

You are 100% correct about Thais not harassing openly. Very true. However, they do use tone of voice, sarcasm, and looks like no other. Every Thai knows exactly where they stand on that "pecking order."

For a visitor your advice is sage. For a resident, not so much so. Taking hordes of bar girls back to your apartment could cause you to lose your lease in many cases.

[QUOTE=John Traveller;1539941]My suggestion: Don't care what other people think, just enjoy your time with the p4p-women here. Including "parading" in the street. Also enjoy GFE with them it that's your cup of tea. Just have in the back of your head that it's a game. I hope you all out there have a nice time with your tea, whatever cup it is in.[/QUOTE]Damn right JT. It's your holiday so just enjoy it and more than likely nobody is going to know you anyway. Whenever me and my wingmen go to a new destination we usually have P4P chicks show us around. Our first time in Bangkok chicks from Angel's Disco showed us things that we probably would not have ever known was even there.[QUOTE=Hiihii;1540022]If you need to stray maybe your gf isn't the one for you![/QUOTE]Whoever said that if you have a girlfriend you were not allowed to deal with anyone else? That would depend on the terms of your relationship. Most people don't take the time to go over what they expect with or from each other. They just assume the other person has the same ideas that they have. That is why before my relationship started I told my girlfriend that I was a player and made sure she was okay with that. I know myself and I'm too old to pretend to be something that I am not or not be something that I am. That doesn't mean that I am going to be disrespectful towards her. I am going to be discrete with what I do.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1540062]I'm glad my life is simple now. I have my family and my friends, children and grandchildren. I'm not now nor ever expect to be in a romantic relationship. I can do anything I damn well please. I can fuck as many different woman as I wish. No need for lies and deception. It is a very liberating feeling. I don't need a wife or lover. I prefer my own company. I get along smashingly well with myself. No conflicts. No other person's needs to worry about. A couple of hours, an evening or a few days of superficial sex with an endless array of pretty young ladies engaged in what I think is a very noble profession takes care of whatever needs I, my family or friends cannot. Life is good.[/QUOTE]Without the grandkids bit, you have just perfectly described my own life and my own feelings toward it. Great piece of articulation.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1540062]I'm not now nor ever expect to be in a romantic relationship. I can do anything I damn well please. I can fuck as many different woman as I wish. No need for lies and deception. It is a very liberating feeling. I don't need a wife or lover. I prefer my own company. I get along smashingly well with myself. No conflicts. No other person's needs to worry about. A couple of hours, an evening or a few days of superficial sex with an endless array of pretty young ladies engaged in what I think is a very noble profession takes care of whatever needs I, my family or friends cannot. Life is good.[/QUOTE]Amen, brother! My point of view exactly!

[QUOTE=Hiihii;1540021]Anyways the girls are back. Packed stages but no penises. Will prices cum down? Supply and demand is not in balance-soemthing has to give.[/QUOTE] Quoting one of the greatest philosophers and thinkers of the 20th century Chance the Gardener: "There will be growth in the spring!"

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational; 1539874]PK, you compared a GOOD sex worker to a COMMON wife. Why not compare good with good or common with common? A good sex worker is hard to come by and takes many trials to find. With a limited time in Bangkok a guy has to dive in head first without pussyfooting around. He is subject to a big margin of fuck ups throughout his many trials.

A guy has all the time in the world to choose a wife so there is no reason to be in such a rush that he fucks up and chooses wrong. And if I was to choose a wife I wouldn't get a common one as you have described. She would have to be damn good for me. I'm not understanding how and why guys are choosing women who won't eat right and go to the gym, won't have sex with them when and how they want it, and demand money, and then later on complain about it. My relationship with my wife was nothing like that. We always kept our money separate and each paid the bills that each was responsible for. When we decided to break up we split everything that we had obtined together evenly. It sounds like some guys should make wiser decisions.[/QUOTE]You and PK have hit on why I am here and not slaving away to pay a mortgage for a wife in USA.

I am too damn hard to please to be married. So many beautiful flowers and lovely fragrances.

[QUOTE=IamJohnGalt; 1540109]You and PK have hit on why I am here and not slaving away to pay a mortgage for a wife in USA.

I am too damn hard to please to be married. So many beautiful flowers and lovely fragrances.[/QUOTE]Know thyself. Not all people are cut out to be in a long term relationship. At least not in every phase of their life. I knew one seemingly happily married couple who in the sixties decided to get a divorce. They were adamant there were no serious problems in the relationship. They both decided they preferred to be single. I knew other couples where after decades of marriage one person came to that conclusion and acted on it. The spouse was not very happy with that. In my case I think I have been single for so long and have become so fond of my near total freedom that it would be difficult to be in a relationship.

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational;1540080]That is why before my relationship started I told my girlfriend that I was a player and made sure she was okay with that. I know myself and I'm too old to pretend to be something that I am not or not be something that I am. That doesn't mean that I am going to be disrespectful towards her. I am going to be discrete with what I do.[/QUOTE]I would suggest employing a "don't ask don't tell policy." Announcing to her that you are going to be doinking other women is not being discreet. You are putting it in her face. It is not pretending, it is the way men handle the situation here.

Personally I don't know any woman that would want to hear that from a dude."If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it."

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1540112]Know thyself. Not all people are cut out to be in a long term relationship. At least not in every phase of their life. I knew one seemingly happily married couple who in the sixties decided to get a divorce. They were adamant there were no serious problems in the relationship. They both decided they preferred to be single. I knew other couples where after decades of marriage one person came to that conclusion and acted on it. The spouse was not very happy with that. In my case I think I have been single for so long and have become so fond of my near total freedom that it would be difficult to be in a relationship.[/QUOTE]Totally get that. I can see how at points in one's life, being alone is a wonderful thing.

[QUOTE=Run Mann;1540061]I am not condemning anything, I am stating the obvious, hard to have discourse with you because you keep changing the facts. This was not a discussion about culture or rules or not making waves. You're changing the chords of the song. But again, I am not convinced by your argument so I will keep doing this my way and in no way am I going to try to convince you of anything. Believe whatever you want.[/QUOTE]Obvious? You are simply stating your feelings and judgements about Thai culture. And yes, you were condemning in your post, which of course it fine, but just own it.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1540062]I have my family and my friends, children and grandchildren.[/QUOTE]What I am for sure happiest about is that I have almost reached 50 and have never had kids. Wives, girlfriends, yes, you can get out of those with relative ease, but kids, that is a commitment till you die. One I will pass on.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1540062]Boy, didn't you ask the sixty-four thousand dollar question!

If a guy is in a happy relationship why would he need a steady diet of sex workers? Seems something is wrong; but I don't mean wrong in a moral sense.

When I've been unattached, I've fucked as many different women as I can. When I've been in an unhappy relationship that was falling apart, I've cheated on my partner. When I've been in a good relationship, I've had no desire to fool around behind my partner's back. At that time that woman satisfied all of my emotional and sexual needs. I had no need to seek sexual gratification from another woman. I loved and wanted to be faithful to my partner. Cheating would have hurt me, as I knew it would hurt her.

Now I understand why a guy who feels trapped in an unhappy marriage with a woman he does not love and is not physically attracted to has affairs. I'm not going to judge the fellow, nor blame him for his situation. We all make mistakes. We can marry the wrong woman. Religion, extended family, children, family finances, many reasons can make it too difficult to get out of an unhappy marriage. The need for a couple hours of bliss in the arms of a sexy young woman who is satisfying our sexual needs is understandable. I can understand having relationships outside the marriage: a regular girlfriend, a regular sex worker, or a series of affairs with non-pros or pros. The poor fellow is just dealing with a difficult situation, trying to hold a bad marriage together while occasionally satisfying emotional and sexual needs that are not being taken care of within the marriage.

I won't go into a consistent pattern of cheating on a girl friend. That is something I don't understand. One fling during a bad period in the relationship, I get that. I don't understand a need to have periodic sex outside a good relationship. I try not to pass judgment on others. I've encounter so many surprising situations in my life, it seems now nothing surprises me. When I see someone do something I don't understand, rather than criticize the bloke, I just assume I've never been in the same situation as he so who am I to judge.[/QUOTE]Love and sex are two very different things. While one can remain fairly constant, love, sexual attraction fades in a relationship.

Just finished a very good book about the physical reasons for this. Unrealistic expectations are one of the reasons relationships end.

Actually I don't at all consider meaningless sexual encounters "cheating" to say. They are fun like a roller coaster ride but carry no meaning or emotional content.

However, if you are out with other women looking to fill something that is lacking emotionally in your relationship, then there is of course an issue.

For me that is not the case. I am not dating, romancing, or interacting beyond the sex act and all that is involved with it. I have no desire beyond that.

When I am the most content and happy with life, work, GF, etc, that is when I go out and doink the most. Why? Because I am happy and feel good, therefore my sex drive is high. Same goes with alcohol. I don't drink when I feel bad, I do when I feel good!

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1540131]Obvious? You are simply stating your feelings and judgements about Thai culture. And yes, you were condemning in your post, which of course it fine, but just own it.[/QUOTE]No, I did not and its not fine and I will not own it. I am not a pretender so I have no need to impress anyone to gain their approval.