Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1543046]Nana Hotel may have been a good hotel once (perhaps during the Vietnam War, when GIs did their R&R here?) but it is now long past its prime. Unless of course you like fluorescent lights, glacial airco, windows with a view on a blind concrete wall and furniture that is still the original one when the hotel was built. And they try to get you in the hotel taxi to the airport at prices at least 3 times the metered taxi price.[/QUOTE]On my first Bangkok trip in 2000, I stayed at the Nana Hotel in their cheapest room. It was a "dump", but better than similar priced hotel rooms in Bangkok. For my rookie trip to Thailand, the location couldn't be beat. I kind of liked the hotel's "sleazy" atmosphere and reputation. I've stayed in worst hotels in my travels through SE Asia and South America. If you're used to staying at upscale hotels like the Hilton, Hyatt or Marriott, the Nana Hotel isn't for you.

On my subsequent trips to Bangkok, I've stayed at other hotels. I did visit a fellow monger who was staying at the Nana Hotel in one of their suites which was pretty nice.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp; 1543069]I'm comparing the Bangkok scene over a time span of 6+ years. I'm the constant factor there, and if anything things have gotten smoother on my side of things during the years (more fluent in Thai, more capable of steering the interaction where I want it, and bypassing the rough edges). But there is no denying that the average girl's attitude has gone significantly away from a friendly, bubbly GFE, and it's now more of an exception (though not an impossibly rare one like in Frankfurt) instead of the norm.[/QUOTE]Assuming everything (in P4P terms) is on a near continuous downward slope (let says peaking 15 years back) at what point of the slope do you believe Bangkok is presently in before it becomes very similar to a western city.

Is Bangkok only half way there? Or based upon your knowledge, experience, and ability to compare at least 6 years back - is it further down the slope than that?

[QUOTE=Western787; 1543214]Is Bangkok only half way there? Or based upon your knowledge, experience, and ability to compare at least 6 years back. Is it further down the slope than that?[/QUOTE]Your question assumes change is linear. This is only true on short time scales. Generally change is curvilinear.

For example what if Thaksin eventually prevailed? I wouldn't bet on it, but he might. Then he gets his 2 trillion in additional debt for infrastructure; he puts 20% in his pocket; squanders some of the rest; saddles the country with unsustainable levels of debt; eventually Thailand goes in default; the economy crashes; and the baht drops to 50 to the US dollar. Seems that would mark the beginning of a golden age in mongering. Though I'm not holding my breath.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1543227]Your question assumes change is linear. This is only true on short time scales. Generally change is curvilinear.

For example what if Thaksin eventually prevailed? I wouldn't bet on it, but he might. Then he gets his 2 trillion in additional debt for infrastructure; he puts 20% in his pocket; squanders some of the rest; saddles the country with unsustainable levels of debt; eventually Thailand goes in default; the economy crashes; and the baht drops to 50 to the US dollar. Seems that would mark the beginning of a golden age in mongering. Though I'm not holding my breath.[/QUOTE]I am aware that (assuming it could be accurately indexed somehow)"P4P quality" is not in linear decline, and for that matter (though the main driver) the inverse relation between economic improvement and decreased P4P quality itself is not always linear. The question posed required an assumption of NEAR continuous decline (the larger megatrend in fact) to keep the question itself simple

Thaksin bankrupting Thailand might do it, or (not much on the Baht per se but Thai economy) if the USA has some event where the dollar itself comes under attack. That could hurt both China and Thailand's economy near term.

Short of a collapse of the USA economy which would cause a world wide depression, Thailand (and China despite near term issues) IMHO will continue to grow economically, thus impacting its status as the arguably major P4P destination in the world.

[QUOTE=Western787;1543256]Thailand (and China despite near term issues) IMHO will continue to grow economically, thus impacting its status as the arguably major P4P destination in the world.[/QUOTE]I think you're right. China's economy will continue to grow. Eventually there will be enough people with enough wealth for the creation of a consumption driven economy. I think China's biggest challenges are it's ethnic minorities and environmental problems. Chinese prosperity will spread. Thailand's current problems are short term. Eventually this mess will get sorted out and it will be back to business.

Thailand's P4P is effected by the strong Thai economy; and by declining birth rates; and by larger numbers of Asian mongers.

[QUOTE=Mouse1;1543030]It is not possible for a person to be a Muslim and a Communist at the same time, because they are opposites that cannot co-exist in the same individual without one of them prevailing and the other being eliminated. Whoever is a Communist is not a Muslim. Communism involves different kinds of blatant kufr, such as denying the existence of Allaah (may He be glorified and exalted), denying the existence of the unseen worlds, making a mockery of the religion of Allaah and looking down on it, and flouting its laws and morals. How can the Muslim whose religion is Islam follow an ideology which states that religion is the opium of the people? Communists are among the kuffaar in refutation of whom Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning) : 'Were they created by nothing, or were they themselves the creators? Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, but they have no firm Belief. ' [al-Toor 52:35-36] How can the Muslim follow a group whose belief is such? We ask Allaah for guidance.[/QUOTE][url]Http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2580248/Saudi-Arabia-bans-naming-children-Linda.html[/url]

Those wonderful fellas in Saudi have scored another " jokers of the year" award with this novel piece of nonsense.

Its running second, in the " Muslim Joke of the Year " to the 5 times a day plonker who said it was "haram " to land on Mars.

I think a few countries should reciprocate and tell all Mohammads that from now on, they are to be called Horace or Gerald.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1543267]I think you're right. Chinese prosperity will spread. .[/QUOTE]The day China was changed forever and the same reason why the Thais were able to build a world class city. From National Public Radio:

[url]http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/01/20/145360447/the-secret-document-that-transformed-china[/url]


Here is a copy of the actual document that transformed China:

http://www.chinatoday.com.cn/ctenglish/se/download/site127/20090710/00142ad54b730bc0ee3d02.jpeg

[QUOTE=Western787;1543256]Thailand (and China despite near term issues) IMHO will continue to grow economically, thus impacting its status as the arguably major P4P destination in the world.[/QUOTE]Agreed 100.

Good reason why one may want to stay away from the Russians (Uzbek's technically) as well the as the Grace Hotel. This documentary is relatively new (2011 or later) and focuses on Uzbek trafficking, which no doubt occurs in some form. As expected it also contains the usual wild NGO "[url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url]" claims, but they are much more hedged and nuanced than usual.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1nRKU6ug9M[/url]

[QUOTE=Western787;1543194]Literally 5-9 to 5-10? and stunning too? Good luck. In Bangkok such girls are called "models" and you seen them on ads for Korean Air among other places.[/QUOTE]I don't know, depends how fussy he is about additional equipment the girls might carry. I've spent the last 4 years living in Singapore and drinking in a bar that had lots of Russian dancers and lots of 5'10" long haired Thais in tight fitting dresses. OK, they may have been guys, but that didn't seem to stop some of the punters. I stuck with the Russians, having spent most of the past 18 years in SE Asia a nice blonde makes a change.

Still cracks me up how many mongerers (including a mate of mine) couldn't tell the difference. I'm now in Nay Pyi Taw, Myanmar, and can barely find a place to drink, let alone any girls.

[QUOTE=FreebieFan; 1543307][url]Http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2580248/Saudi-Arabia-bans-naming-children-Linda.html[/url]

Those wonderful fellas in Saudi have scored another " jokers of the year" award with this novel piece of nonsense.

Its running second, in the " Muslim Joke of the Year " to the 5 times a day plonker who said it was "haram " to land on Mars.

I think a few countries should reciprocate and tell all Mohammads that from now on, they are to be called Horace or Gerald.[/QUOTE]I remember a few years back trying to understand naming systems for Islamists (specifically why Americans kept calling the man Mr Hussein, whilst the rest of the world called him 'Saddam'). Anyway, I came across the Islamic equivalent of the Women institute or Mothers Union, which nicely explained naming systems. It explained that Moslem children shouldn't be called Christian names such as Peter, John, etc because 'they are our enemies'. I was really quite chilled, and I sat there thinking, 'but I am not your enemy. '. But if this is what they believe, we have a lot of grief yet to come.

[QUOTE=Mouse1;1543425]I remember a few years back trying to understand naming systems for Islamists (specifically why Americans kept calling the man Mr Hussein, whilst the rest of the world called him 'Saddam'). Anyway, I came across the Islamic equivalent of the Women institute or Mothers Union, which nicely explained naming systems. It explained that Moslem children shouldn't be called Christian names such as Peter, John, etc because 'they are our enemies'. I was really quite chilled, and I sat there thinking, 'but I am not your enemy. '. But if this is what they believe, we have a lot of grief yet to come.[/QUOTE]I have friends in France who are Cambodian Cham refugees from the war. The Cham are an ethnic Muslim minority in Cambodia and Vietnam dating back to their ancient empire. My friends were named Ibrahim, Mohammad, and Musfafa before 9/11. They then changed their names to Bob, Bill, and Ed. They no longer wanted to be identified with Islam (although they did not change their religion.) They also did not want to be identified with France.

[QUOTE=Mouse1;1543425]I remember a few years back trying to understand naming systems for Islamists (specifically why Americans kept calling the man Mr Hussein, whilst the rest of the world called him 'Saddam'). Anyway, I came across the Islamic equivalent of the Women institute or Mothers Union, which nicely explained naming systems. It explained that Moslem children shouldn't be called Christian names such as Peter, John, etc because 'they are our enemies'. I was really quite chilled, and I sat there thinking, 'but I am not your enemy. '. But if this is what they believe, we have a lot of grief yet to come.[/QUOTE]That's not fully correct. So far I know most Muslim peoples want to apply their children's name in Arabic. It is for their religious belief (because of Al-Quran written in Arabic). And to stay more closer to the name of Prophet Mohammad.

Does this sort of thing happen much?

I am walking along Suk Soi 19 late last night. I pass a short semi-dumpy woman with some grey hair, maybe 50 to 60 years old. I'm 57 but probably look about 50.

She says hello in a kurt voice with an Eartha Kit tone. I turn toward her a little expecting her to ask directions to where something is. She just says "2000" (in English) then after a very brief pause (no more than 1 second), perhaps sensing I'm stunned, says "200 massage". I just continue on my way with no response.

I would not really even consider doing her, if was a freebie, as I am heading back to 35 year old GF who still has a fabulously sexy tight body, and I don't really like true Thai massage at all. I have been far to spoiled, associating with young ladies, even when I have to pay. I could easily do an older lady of 40 to 45 if she was in good shape and still a hottie I guess. This woman was really just far too ordinary. I guess many guys are married to some ordinary woman like this.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1543214]Assuming everything (in P4P terms) is on a near continuous downward slope (let says peaking 15 years back) at what point of the slope do you believe Bangkok is presently in before it becomes very similar to a western city.

Is Bangkok only half way there? Or based upon your knowledge, experience, and ability to compare at least 6 years back . Is it further down the slope than that?[/QUOTE]Bangkok will never be directly comparable to a Western city. But it might eventually get to the level of an uninteresting modern Asian city, like, say, Hong Kong, Signapore or Kuala Lumpur, where mongering very much exists, but it tends to be either wham-bam-next-10-clients please at the low end geared to locals (Geylang, HK 141, Petaling) , or too much teasing and spotty service plus extremely high prices in foreigner-oriented section (Orchard towers, Wanchai, Beach Club). Still relatively easy to get laid, but it gets boring quickly and nobody travels there for sex.

In the worst case, I guess it could end up like Manila if a strong paternalistic gov't comes to power again and does another round of restricting the nighlife, like what Purachai did in the early 2000s.

What was special about the Thai scene was the ubiquitous GFE in most sessions. There are loads of hookers in PRC or Vietnam, and they're not even expensive, but the attitudes are so bad that I often think I'm far better off looking than taking one. Increasingly poor attitudes and mechanical minimum-required service is what will do in Bangkok as a sex destination (this is well underway already) and I don't see some short-term price / supply fluctuations (say, due to an economic or political crisis) making much difference.

There's a convincing article about demographic underpinnings of the sex scene decline in Thailand (Google: "Thailand's doomsday approaches"). That might matter more than just the improving economy.