Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;1543497]Bangkok will never be directly comparable to a Western city.[/QUOTE]Pretty much an appropriate mid-long term vision.

On the other hand there is no city / nation / government. In a fast and global visibility also due to technologies. That want to be depicted as a sex destination, even if, under the skin, they do make quite a living out of the sex industry.

Not only in Thailand there is a lot of people living or supporting the sex industry not from the customer side and who are those supposedly being those officially appointed to keep the town / nation clean from the sex industry. More than anywhere this is in Asia.

Today BKK (and Thailand in general) is not (yet?) into that path but there are signs it is heading there.

Look at the real estate investments (4-5 star hotels, shopping malls, etc) in Sukhumvit, especially "low Suk". Sooner or later these will kick out the P4P scene as they cannot tolerate it to happen. They could have done a Geylang scene (RLD) for instance, but they are not. There seems to be a plan to have, opposite BeerGarden, in Soi 7, a new building complex: another sign of the transformation. So, sooner or later, even BG will be "out of place" and somebody will be told to change his trade business or somebody will just buy the land and build another type of trade.

Whether this immense growth of shopping malls and 4-5 star hotels will be in good business or not is another story.

A) can the (local and visitor) market absorb such a trade supply offer?

B) will the visitors still visit after there is no more (significant) P4P action?

Today there is a mix (with growth of non P4P visitors) , but tomorrow this might change.

But the autorhities will look good:

A) they have cleaned the city and reduced the idea of a sex industry city.

Be) they have given (or claim they generated the opportunity) employement during construction period.

See) they have creted future job opportunities in the malls and hotels, job off the P4P industry.

The) the investors have made their money (and maybe shared some tea money to get permits etc) , especially those in the building industry. They do not care then if the mall will generate profits or not. (that will be up to the trade industry. They (the builders) are already off to the next building site.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp; 1543497]Bangkok will never be directly comparable to a Western city. But it might eventually get to the level of an uninteresting modern Asian city, like, say, Hong Kong, Signapore or Kuala Lumpur.

There's a convincing article about demographic underpinnings of the sex scene decline in Thailand (Google: "Thailand's doomsday approaches"). That might matter more than just the improving economy.[/QUOTE]HK and Singapore are Chinese, with a dash of British. KL is Malay, again with a dash of British, and predominantly Muslim. Bangkok is Thai. There are significant cultural differences between these cities.

As for the Stickman article, about 6 month ago I sent him an email in response to one of his weekly articles about the declining quality of gogo girls. My email contained one simple table of Thai demographic data from 1950 through 2010. Stick referred me to the Doomsday article. He said it appeared in late 2012. This article and my email were in essential agreement; however, the Doomsday article was obviously not written by a demographer. It did not discuss the impact of Crude Death Rates (CDR) on the population profile. This can only be inferred from the changes in the population pyramids in the Doomsday article. So many words and tables when the whole story could have been told with a few simple numbers.

Here is what is behind the changes in the population pyramid in the Doomsday article. In 1950-55 Thailand's Crude Birth Rate (CBR) was 42.5 while its CDR was 15.6. That is, there was a average of 42.5 births and 15.6 deaths per 1000 people during that time period. From this the Natural Change (NC) per 1000 can be calculated. It was 27.0 (with rounding). Even though the CBR dropped slightly in 1960-65, a much greater decrease in CDR resulted in the NC peaking at 30.3. By 2005-2010 CBR had dropped to 12.9 and CDR dropped to 7.2. NC declined to 5.7. In other words, the NC by 2010 was one-fifth what it had been in 1960.

The Doomsday article wisely included a figure with a graph illustrating per capita Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) , which increased 9-fold between 1980 and 2010. With the exception of dips with the crisis in the late 1990s and the great recession of 2008, the increase in PPP is linear. This backs up the many ISG posts that have remarked how better employment opportunities have impacted the P4P scene.

A major deficiency in the Doomsday article is it's failure to discuss immigration/emigration. If Thailand prospers relative to its neighbors, people seeking better opportunities will be drawn to Thailand. This will include some sex workers. Thailand has a relatively tolerant attitude towards sex workers. As long as this persists, it is reasonable to think there will be a relatively large P4P scene.

Are the good old days ever returning? Do they ever? Guys who write about how great it was in the 1990s or first decade of this century should talk to my Vietnam Vet buddies who did R&R in Bangkok and Pattaya in 1967. A couple of my buddies went back in the late late 1990s and remarked that the good old days were long gone. It's all relative. Frankly, I think today BKK has the world's best mongering scene. I base this on the quality of the P4P scene and the urban setting in which it is embedded. While the city will change in 5 years, I expect it will still be the world's best mongering destination.

[QUOTE=BionicMan;1543504]Look at the real estate investments (4-5 star hotels, shopping malls, etc) in Sukhumvit, especially "low Suk". Sooner or later these will kick out the P4P scene as they cannot tolerate it to happen.[/QUOTE]But aren't all these 4 and 4 star hotels GF? Quality sex workers are always welcome in quality hotels. I've stood in hotel lobbies with escorts I've booked and had very friendly conversations with hotel management staff who showed considerable respect for the escort I was with. And they didn't bat an eye on the occasions I was accompanied by two escorts. However, three star hotels can get testy about guests bringing ladies that were obviously picked up on the street onto the premise.

Strip clubs, where FS is common on the premises are found throughout Southeast Florida. San Francisco has a very visible sex scene west of Union Square. There is a thriving P4P scene in every large city in every country I've ever visited. In some it is less visible, but it's always present. The big soapies like those found along Ratchda are not going away. The real estate NEP and Soi Cowboy sit on my become too valuable to host the P4P scene, but as long as there are large numbers of farangs looking for sex around lower Suk, the P4P scene will find a home somewhere in the neighborhood. Beer Garten may disappear; the Nana Hotel parking lot may disappear; but the business will find a new home somewhere near by.

[QUOTE=Kerrstar; 1543418]I don't know, depends how fussy he is about additional equipment the girls might carry. I've spent the last 4 years living in Singapore and drinking in a bar that had lots of Russian dancers and lots of 5'10" long haired Thais in tight fitting dresses. OK, they may have been guys, but that didn't seem to stop some of the punters. I stuck with the Russians, having spent most of the past 18 years in SE Asia a nice blonde makes a change.

Still cracks me up how many mongerers (including a mate of mine) couldn't tell the difference. I'm now in Nay Pyi Taw, Myanmar, and can barely find a place to drink, let alone any girls.[/QUOTE]LOL, no he specified a real girl. By the way Thermae's supposedly strict "no LB" rule apparently now has a post op exception. I would think the Japs would be pretty pissed if they ever got fooled.

AVERAGE height in Thailand for women is only 157. 3 cm (almost 5-2) so that means that 165 cm (approx 5-5) and up is tall by Thai standards, therefore what are the odds of finding a 5-9 or 5-10 girl, who is also hot, also P4P, and available at somewhat reasonable rates? That rules out most G club girls and probably all of off-market (literal) model-hookers and similar quality women. Many "spokesmodels" in Siam or Terminal 21 and similar venues doing various shows can be flat out 10 stunners, with feminine voices that prove they are women. And most are in fact around 5-9, but my guess is that very few are hookers, and generally I've noticed are very careful to avoid any direct eye contact with any males in close proximity. Avoiding direct eye contact is the best way to avoid uninvited solicitations, and given their often dazzling beauty - they must get hit on many times a day.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1543515]But aren't all these 4 and 4 star hotels GF? Quality sex workers are always welcome in quality hotels. I've stood in hotel lobbies with escorts I've booked and had very friendly conversations with hotel management staff who showed considerable respect for the escort I was with. And they didn't bat an eye on the occasions I was accompanied by two escorts. However, three star hotels can get testy about guests bringing ladies that were obviously picked up on the street onto the premise.[/QUOTE]The hotels are in for the trade, to have business and make money, so they are not much concerned (not much does not mean they are not attentive) about the fact you bring in a P4P girl.

Just as in KL, SIN, HKG (and UAE) etc. If you are in a 4-5 star hotel you will not bring back, most likely, a trashed hooker. (how many normal girls are in the hotel with their husband or partner and dressed sexy. Quite some, so if a WG is dressed appropriately, it does nto mean with a burka, she can pass as a sexy lady with her partner)

The city saves face as it has (more) 4-5 stars hotels, rather than dodgy places not able to cater for families but mainly to the mongerers.

The 4-5 star hotels calls for premium customers who "don't want to show they attend much the P4P scene" even if they do. So they are discrete, etc, still pay premium prices, and the hotel saves face.

The NANA hotel is run on conservative principles and fosters traditional values.

The NANA does not hesitate to refuse rooms to persons unsuited to the prevailing ethos of The Nana – even if they have a confirmed reservation.

1 / The NANA does not welcome SEX TOURISTS, and does not try to be polite about it.

Borderline cases are not given the benefit of the doubt, but are treated as sex tourists.

Those who are borderline cases should stay elsewhere.

Guests who attempt to bring in bargirls, catamites and their like will be told in plain language to settle their bills and leave.

Remaining on the premises after being told to leave will be treated as a police matter.

The Nana does not ask for or listen to explanations or excuses, and does not apologise for the manner in which miscreants are thrown out.

The Nana also does not apologise for any mistakes it may be accused of having made with regard to the identification of sex tourists.

To keep The Nana private, secure, wholesome and sleaze-free for the kind of guests we welcome, room guests are not permitted to take visitors / outsiders upstairs into the building and their rooms, or into the garden and pool area.

Exceptions may be made in appropriate circumstances at the management's discretion.

Suitable visitors / outsiders may be entertained in the restaurant.

2 / The NANA operates a "ZERO TOLERANCE " policy regarding

&9702; TROUBLE-MAKERS,

&9702; POSSESSORS AND USERS OF ILLICIT DRUGS and

&9702; ALL OTHER ILLEGAL AND NEFARIOUS ACTIVITIES.

3 / The NANA also does NOT WELCOME.

&9702; UNDOMESTICATED PEOPLE – the sort of people whose conduct and appearance give tourists in general and their compatriots in particular a bad name.

When The NANA states 'NOT WELCOME', The NANA means it. There will be no politeness about it.

4 / The NANA welcomes FAMILIES and prides itself on its child-friendly staff, but families are welcome only if CHILDREN are KEPT UNDER REASONABLE CONTROL.

The NANA is not a playground for children: children must not be allowed to disturb other guests. Families that do not keep their children under control will be told to settle their bill and leave in no uncertain manner.

5 / The NANA particularly welcome guests who like PETS and ANIMALS.

The NANA is home to many rescued cats, terrapins and one dog, all of which are well cared for. The garden of The NANA is also home to many squirrels, birds, etc. However, guests are not allowed to bring in pets or other rescued animals. The NANA already has too many rescued animals on the premises.

Visitors who object to any of The NANA's policies or who intend to spend their time in Thailand whoring, behaving badly, indulging in alcohol abuse and illicit drugs should stay elsewhere. The NANA is not that kind of place.

Tourism is not about going on a rampage through other people's country: those who cannot travel abroad without behaving badly should stay home.

On these policies, The NANA is not interested in dissenting public opinion or what the business world calls 'customer feedback'.

The NANA caters to a certain kind of clientele and that is the end of the matter.

No discussion. No compromise.

http://www.theatlantahotelbangkok.com/facilities.php

[QUOTE=Western787; 1543523]AVERAGE height in Thailand for women is only 157. 3 cm (almost 5-2) so that means that 165 cm (approx 5-5) and up is tall by Thai standards, therefore what are the odds of finding a 5-9 or 5-10 girl, who is also hot, also P4P, and available at somewhat reasonable rates?

Many "spokesmodels" in Siam or Terminal 21 and similar venuesi doing various shows can be flat out 10 stunners, with feminine voices that prove they are women. And most are in fact around 5-9, but my guess is that very few are hookers, and generally I've noticed are very careful to avoid any direct eye contact with any males in close proximity. Avoiding direct eye contact is the best way to avoid uninvited solicitations, and given their often dazzling beauty. They must get hit on many times a day.[/QUOTE]The tallest lady I've ever been with in Bangkok is Aor (#24 at Annie's). I'd estimate she is 5'7" (170cm) in her bare feet. I had a brief conversation with the two ladies in the attached photo. I'm 6'2" (188cm). I'd say allowing for their heels 5'9" (175cm) is a fair estimate of their height. During our brief conversation (I think we exhausted our respective Thai and English vocabularies in about 60 seconds) they were polite (did establish eye contact) but were adept at discouraging any thought of a solicitation. FYI, in person they were at least as attractive as they appear in the photo.

While a farang sex monger wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of hooking up with them, as one would expect ladies like these do make their charms available to wealthy and influential men. Though not as tall (probably about 168cm), the model and TV actress my friend hooked me up with years ago was at least as attractive as these ladies. As I've mentioned in other posts and PMs, she spoke very little English and the sex with her was no better than average. So in my opinion there is no need to envy the HiSo Thai gents who bed these ladies. The sex with a good gogo or MP girl is much better.

[QUOTE=BionicMan;1543524]The hotels are in for the trade, to have business and make money, so they are not much concerned (not much does not mean they are not attentive) about the fact you bring in a P4P girl.[/QUOTE]Your analysis is spot on. It is called the hospitality industry.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1543507]A major deficiency in the Doomsday article is it's failure to discuss immigration / emigration. If Thailand prospers relative to its neighbors, people seeking better opportunities will be drawn to Thailand. This will include some sex workers. Thailand has a relatively tolerant attitude towards sex workers. As long as this persists, it is reasonable to think there will be a relatively large P4P scene.

Are the good old days ever returning? Do they ever? Guys who write about how great it was in the 1990s or first decade of this century should talk to my Vietnam Vet buddies who did R&R in Bangkok and Pattaya in 1967. A couple of my buddies went back in the late late 1990s and remarked that the good old days were long gone. It's all relative. Frankly, I think today BKK has the world's best mongering scene. I base this on the quality of the P4P scene and the urban setting in which it is embedded. While the city will change in 5 years, I expect it will still be the world's best mongering destination.[/QUOTE]Burma with 60 million people (Thailand's level) will be an increasingly important WG source as travel restrictions are liberalized. Of course already Burma is the main source of construction and labor workers for Thailand and they get special visas and of course work at incredibly low wages, but as some say "better than working for free" in Burma. I guess they just feed them and house then in Burma with zero pay often times.

From the web from I believe 10 plus years back "Hundreds of thousands of Burmese migrant workers are employed in various sectors of Thai industry, including fisheries, manufacturing, domestic and construction work, hotels and restaurants, and agriculture. As Thailand has become more prosperous, fewer Thai people are willing to work in jobs which are commonly known as 'dirty, dangerous, and demeaning', and Burmese nationals have arrived in Thailand in increasing numbers to fill the labour shortage."

Note although in a different context, it brings up the issue of Thais leaving "demeaning" jobs.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1543541]Burma with 60 million people (Thailand's level) will be an increasingly important WG source as travel restrictions are liberalized. Of course already Burma is the main source of construction and labor workers for Thailand and they get special visas and of course work at incredibly low wages, but as some say "better than working for free" in Burma. I guess they just feed them and house then in Burma with zero pay often times.[/QUOTE]This post illustrates the forces that drive immigration. Thais who own and operate fishing boats have been accused by international watchdogs of slavery. According to the NGOs, Burmese men will board the boat and never get off. Once the boat embarks, it doesn't return to port. Fish are offloaded while offshore. The poor men working the boat have no opportunity to get off.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1543526]The NANA hotel is run on conservative principles and fosters traditional values.

The NANA does not hesitate to refuse rooms to persons unsuited to the prevailing ethos of The Nana – even if they have a confirmed reservation.

1 / The NANA does not welcome SEX TOURISTS, and does not try to be polite about it.

Borderline cases are not given the benefit of the doubt, but are treated as sex tourists.

Those who are borderline cases should stay elsewhere.

Guests who attempt to bring in bargirls, catamites and their like will be told in plain language to settle their bills and leave.

Remaining on the premises after being told to leave will be treated as a police matter.

The Nana does not ask for or listen to explanations or excuses, and does not apologise for the manner in which miscreants are thrown out.

The Nana also does not apologise for any mistakes it may be accused of having made with regard to the identification of sex tourists.

To keep The Nana private, secure, wholesome and sleaze-free for the kind of guests we welcome, room guests are not permitted to take visitors / outsiders upstairs into the building and their rooms, or into the garden and pool area.

Exceptions may be made in appropriate circumstances at the management's discretion.

Suitable visitors / outsiders may be entertained in the restaurant.

2 / The NANA operates a "ZERO TOLERANCE " policy regarding

&9702; TROUBLE-MAKERS,

&9702; POSSESSORS AND USERS OF ILLICIT DRUGS and

&9702; ALL OTHER ILLEGAL AND NEFARIOUS ACTIVITIES.

3 / The NANA also does NOT WELCOME.

&9702; UNDOMESTICATED PEOPLE – the sort of people whose conduct and appearance give tourists in general and their compatriots in particular a bad name.

When The NANA states 'NOT WELCOME', The NANA means it. There will be no politeness about it.

4 / The NANA welcomes FAMILIES and prides itself on its child-friendly staff, but families are welcome only if CHILDREN are KEPT UNDER REASONABLE CONTROL.

The NANA is not a playground for children: children must not be allowed to disturb other guests. Families that do not keep their children under control will be told to settle their bill and leave in no uncertain manner.

5 / The NANA particularly welcome guests who like PETS and ANIMALS.

The NANA is home to many rescued cats, terrapins and one dog, all of which are well cared for. The garden of The NANA is also home to many squirrels, birds, etc. However, guests are not allowed to bring in pets or other rescued animals. The NANA already has too many rescued animals on the premises.

Visitors who object to any of The NANA's policies or who intend to spend their time in Thailand whoring, behaving badly, indulging in alcohol abuse and illicit drugs should stay elsewhere. The NANA is not that kind of place.

Tourism is not about going on a rampage through other people's country: those who cannot travel abroad without behaving badly should stay home.

On these policies, The NANA is not interested in dissenting public opinion or what the business world calls 'customer feedback'.

The NANA caters to a certain kind of clientele and that is the end of the matter.

No discussion. No compromise.

[url]http://www.theatlantahotelbangkok.com/facilities.php[/url][/QUOTE]Times must have changed. During the Vietnam war the Nana was famous for the "Puying Room" where off-duty hookers would hang out, socialize, and offer cut-rate services. In recent years it is still hospitable to working girls in the coffee shop where I have made a few instant friends.

Am I missing something. Didn't there used to be links to reports of distinction on these threads?

I am traveling to Bangkok this week as was hoping to find the latest info on where to find some fun and where to stay, this thread seems to have turned into more of a chatter though?

Any direction and tips for a great stay in Bangkok really appreciated.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1543194]Literally 5-9 to 5-10? And stunning too? Good luck. In Bangkok such girls are called "models" and you seen them on ads for Korean Air among other places.

Even in the west that narrows it down a huge amount.

You don't like long legs 5-5 to 5-7 types?

Well, if you've got huge bucks and want to blow money at G Clubs (or in an extreme case hang out at trade shows or Malls talking to spoke models and so forth with large wads of Bahts) you MIGHT find one, but she probably won't be takeout. So what's the point?

Your requirement effectively eliminate 99% of P4P providers in Bangkok, it would be like going to Kiev and demanding someone 4 ft 8 inches tall, it doesn't make sense, with the odds better in Kiev in fact. Thai women average 3 to 4 inches shorter height than typical western women, and you've probably noticed it when you've pulled a Go Go off the stage, as very often (though proportional relative to leg length etc). She typically will be shorter what you THOUGHT you saw on stage. Westerners used to looking for example at strip club stage dancers have trouble IMHO in making that contextual adjustment.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the information. I am aware of that but there is no harm in trying. The average height is increasing so does the chance of success and there are always exceptions.

Generally I have no problem dropping in Kiev while flying from Europe to Dubai; however, there are a few problems in paradise at this time, although, Bangkok is not politically very stable either. Anyway it's not right to ignore Asians and Africans. .

I have no interest in spending fortune on models.

I give so much importance to height because I am 1. 88

We see how it goes.

[QUOTE=Global Surfer; 1543570]I give so much importance to height because I am 1. 88

We see how it goes.[/QUOTE]We're the same height. I have no problem of a physical nature with the height of the Bangkok ladies, if that is what you are concerned about. It's not to hard to find ladies around 1.65. In December a young inexperienced escort was a bit astonished when I opened my hotel room door. She was about 1.5. She asked my height. I said something like 1.5, which she thought was very funny. We had a great time.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1543523]LOL, no he specified a real girl. By the way Thermae's supposedly strict "no LB" rule apparently now has a post op exception. I would think the Japs would be pretty pissed if they ever got fooled.

AVERAGE height in Thailand for women is only 157. 3 cm (almost 5-2) so that means that 165 cm (approx 5-5) and up is tall by Thai standards, therefore what are the odds of finding a 5-9 or 5-10 girl, who is also hot, also P4P, and available at somewhat reasonable rates? That rules out most G club girls and probably all of off-market (literal) model-hookers and similar quality women. Many "spokesmodels" in Siam or Terminal 21 and similar venues doing various shows can be flat out 10 stunners, with feminine voices that prove they are women. And most are in fact around 5-9, but my guess is that very few are hookers, and generally I've noticed are very careful to avoid any direct eye contact with any males in close proximity. Avoiding direct eye contact is the best way to avoid uninvited solicitations, and given their often dazzling beauty. They must get hit on many times a day.[/QUOTE]Stunners? I've seen these, very few are stunners! God did not make that many stunners and I find it hard to believe, a real stunner is going to work for so little money as paid to shopping center pitchwomans.

I wonder if agogo girls avoid eye contact because they don't want UNsolicited sexual advances too. LOL.