Pattaya Reports

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2303528]Same with the purchase of a shirt at Robinsons, a Big Mac at McDs or any of the other comparisons and analogies to a P4P transaction the "I don't play games" side always makes. There is an equal, standard, expected and delivered result regardless of whether you chat first or say nothing at all, pay upfront or pay after they hand it to you, showered that morning or haven't showered in a month, etc.[/QUOTE]Mongering experiences have always been YYMV, after all it's not a Big Mac, but an interaction between two people where the chemistry varies. This is especially the case in Thailand, which was always about an extended interaction, rather than a 15-min one-and-done quick-bang brothels like many other places around the world.

However, here we are, on Pattaya thread, discussing how to charm working girls (beyond payment). That's just sad. Not too long ago (well under 10 years, maybe just 5 years), it was their job to charm us, and so they did. Most punters would have received a decent session with a hooker even if they had the all the charm of a wooden plank, looked decrepit with a beer gut, and had plenty of alcohol on their breath. Sure, not every session was the same, and yes, you would improve you chances slightly by grooming better and being somewhat nicer, but most of all by appearing as a good repeat or long term prospect. It wasn't your job to provide entertainment and endear yourself to the hookers, putting in effort to make things go smoothly. That was clearly their job.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2303576]You have changed the whole argument. The argument was about being able to pick up the hooker. You have changed it to getting the hooker to do the special things that you want. Not the same thing.[/QUOTE]The game changed to the negotiation. Totally different.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2303576]You have changed the whole argument. The argument was about being able to pick up the hooker. You have changed it to getting the hooker to do the special things that you want. Not the same thing.[/QUOTE]No I didn't. My reply to the idea of simply getting a girl to "go with you" vs getting something good out of her rather than basic covered FS goes all the way back to my post #27773. Other posters chimed in on that issue and that is where the "argument" has been ever since. And it even applies to your post about not "understanding why men court or kowtow" to a hooker. Now you know why they do that; because most of us aren't interested in taking a victory lap simply because we got a hooker to "go with us". Getting that to happen is not difficult at all if you don't really expect or demand much for your money.

[QUOTE=MongerForSex;2303662]The game changed to the negotiation. Totally different.[/QUOTE]What is your concept of "game" again? That some dude walks into a go-go bar all rowdy and loud or serious and hypnotic, buys drinks for everyone, does a 20 minute stand-up comedy routine or throws a magical zap at the crowd and suddenly five go-go dancers offer themselves for free?

Never seen it happen. Nobody has "game" like that.

Knowing when, where, how and with whom to negotiate is all part of the game. Anything you do in order to improve your results above point and pay is game. Anything you do to improve your results is part of the negotiation. Virtually no difference between the two. Your best negotiators begin negotiating mentally before they even WALK into a bar. It is intrinsically part of their game. Do you think a negotiation only begins if you invite a girl to sit across a table and start checking off a list of requirements? Such a punter would probably be a lousy negotiator and rarely get what he wants.

UNLESS all he wants is to get a girl to "go with him". geeze, I can't believe I had to type out that previous sentence to clarify the point. lol. But I guess I had to.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2303586]Mongering experiences have always been YYMV, after all it's not a Big Mac, but an interaction between two people where the chemistry varies. This is especially the case in Thailand, which was always about an extended interaction, rather than a 15-min one-and-done quick-bang brothels like many other places around the world.

However, here we are, on Pattaya thread, discussing how to charm working girls (beyond payment). That's just sad. Not too long ago (well under 10 years, maybe just 5 years), it was their job to charm us, and so they did. Most punters would have received a decent session with a hooker even if they had the all the charm of a wooden plank, looked decrepit with a beer gut, and had plenty of alcohol on their breath. Sure, not every session was the same, and yes, you would improve you chances slightly by grooming better and being somewhat nicer, but most of all by appearing as a good repeat or long term prospect. It wasn't your job to provide entertainment and endear yourself to the hookers, putting in effort to make things go smoothly. That was clearly their job.[/QUOTE]I agree. And I think the creeping decline came about in large part because the girls kept testing the waters to see how little they could get away with providing and still get paid. It turned out to be pretty damn little with the newer generation of mongers. Eventually, it was for no more than "going with the customer". Punters are taking victory laps just for THAT. Consequently, now there are girls who line up in front of Soi Cowboy bars looking for all the world like yesterday's go-go dancer hookers whose "job" today is to merely "go with the customer", have drinks with him, maybe dinner, but NO sex involved.

Meanwhile, most punters feel under great pressure to negotiate price and seem to think applying all their efforts to that is the end of it. There is very little about what they're going to get for it. IMO, that is a major part of the problem and not the solution.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2303586]It wasn't your job to provide entertainment and endear yourself to the hookers, putting in effort to make things go smoothly. That was clearly their job.[/QUOTE]LOL. That was my whole point. The seller is supposed to be impressing the buyer, not the buyer impressing the seller. Now you got guys giving tips on how a trick can win over a hooker. How did the game get switched around?

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2303689]No I didn't. My reply to the idea of simply getting a girl to "go with you" vs getting something good out of her rather than basic covered FS goes all the way back to my post #27773. Other posters chimed in on that issue and that is where the "argument" has been ever since. And it even applies to your post about not "understanding why men court or kowtow" to a hooker. Now you know why they do that; because most of us aren't interested in taking a victory lap simply because we got a hooker to "go with us". Getting that to happen is not difficult at all if you don't really expect or demand much for your money.[/QUOTE]Must be the YMMV thing. Of all the hookers I have fucked in Thailand you have seen me complaining about the service of probably none. For some reason I always get great service from a chick without kissing her ass. I also never hear about people in my circle having to kiss ass or cater to a hooker in order to get good service. I always figured great service was the whole point of Thailand. That is why I had to ask G what is it that chicks are doing or not doing to make the session bad.

The way you are talking every chick you run into is like a Tijuana street girl where you have to specify each individual thing you want to do with her upfront. Only thing I have ever found the need to do that with is anal. And even still I have not had to buy a ton of drinks or pay extra money for such. Maybe that is why I am not understanding. We have totally different experiences.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2303735]LOL. That was my whole point. The seller is supposed to be impressing the buyer, not the buyer impressing the seller. Now you got guys giving tips on how a trick can win over a hooker. How did the game get switched around?[/QUOTE]In an ideal world the seller tries to impress the buyer, but that isn't always reality in this hobby. Think of the case where a young, good looking Asian man walks around Thermae; many of the hottest girls smile at him. Now think of the case where a fat old farang does the same thing; the same girls look the other direction. This happened to me at Lords Palace when I picked a top end girl and mama told me she only goes with young Korean men.

It's more than just "no money, no honey." A few of the fat old farangs have charm and find a way to get more fun from the same girl than other fat old farangs. Same general concept with working girls and non working girls.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2303275]If you met MP you would know nothing upsets him.

He's open to meet any doubters about who he is or what he does.

I don't agree with some things MP says or does but I do have mega respect for the ONLY guy in Pattaya who actually knows more Walking Street gogo girls than I do.[/QUOTE]The last time I seen him, he is still at fucking the hottest chicks walking street and Pattaya has to offer, real deal person, any body else have a photo of themselves parting in Baccara? If so please show, it's near impossible.

I have and seen photos of nuns and orphanage with money given to them, I'm just saying!

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2303692] I can't believe I had to type out that previous sentence to clarify the point. lol. But I guess I had to.[/QUOTE]Believe it because typing is a good game.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2303741]Must be the YMMV thing. Of all the hookers I have fucked in Thailand you have seen me complaining about the service of probably none. For some reason I always get great service from a chick without kissing her ass. I also never hear about people in my circle having to kiss ass or cater to a hooker in order to get good service. I always figured great service was the whole point of Thailand. That is why I had to ask G what is it that chicks are doing or not doing to make the session bad.

The way you are talking every chick you run into is like a Tijuana street girl where you have to specify each individual thing you want to do with her upfront. Only thing I have ever found the need to do that with is anal. And even still I have not had to buy a ton of drinks or pay extra money for such. Maybe that is why I am not understanding. We have totally different experiences.[/QUOTE]Well, if by "kissing her ass and catering to her" you mean some of the tips for improved negotiation skills/game you've read and by "in my circle" you mean posters on this site, I believe you have read and heard of a lot of people not particularly impressed by the quality of service they get in the Thai P4P scene.

Re-read the original post that kicked off just this latest discussion and you will find the issue of merely getting a girl to "go with him" was a minor portion of it. As was his paying the money for it. So much for that "money gets it done" adage. Not fully, not in Thailand and most likely not if you pay the money upfront to Thai FLs. Instead, most of his issues were about improving his results after getting the girl in his room or being alone with her in a massage shop.

He got a couple of Beach Road girls and at least one night club girl to "go with him". But, unlike you apparently, what he got for his money was nothing to write home about, at best. Paying Upfront, the girl laying down new rules in the room, typical pitfalls.

Yes, some of the girls in the bars would not engage with him. But it seems the greater reason he did not arrange to have the girls who DID engage with him to "go with him" was because he wanted something more than standard fare from them (LT) and was not willing to pay the 5000+ baht they were quoting.

Sounded to me like a perfect candidate for advice on honing his negotiation skills/game, unless he has since discovered only pointing and saying "Let's go" produces results he can't complain about with the kind of girls worth the air fare to Thailand.

But I am inclined to suspect that isn't the case.

[QUOTE=RacShack;2303773] any body else have a photo of themselves parting in Baccara?[/QUOTE]Next time focus on the naked girl and not a bunch of gang bangers!

First night in Pattaya. Just wanted to explore the area and nothing else. But somehow found myself in front of windmill.

Good crowed for Monday. Very bored looking girls on stage. 3 groups of Indian tourists on ground floor and 2 on first. So, couldn't find a suitable seat. Went upstairs, same situation, came back down and sat on shower / bath side. This was moment when an embarrassed looking German guy was invited to use some veges on one of the girls.

Finally saw two better looking ladies on table near the stairs. Grabbed a stool, and found myself staring a clean bare vagina. Number 154, 253 or 153, 253. Finishes their dance and sat with me. Found two sets on nice firms buttocks in my hands. Rubbing was not only welcomed it was invited as well. After a couple of minutes felt some noistness on my right hand. Must have hit some spot. 3 some was offered but politely declined. Too tired for anything else. Service girl requested a drink I said if you can go on stage I will buy you one.

Girls sat there with me for about 20 min and then went to do their duo on stage. Good chemistry between the two. One of them said she has a long dildo that both can use together.

Damage. Paid 169 b for my chivas, 520 for another chivas and 2 LD. Left 80 b tip for serving girl.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2303844]Next time focus on the naked girl and not a bunch of gang bangers![/QUOTE]That was the purpose of the pic, the girls! I see still not the brightest one! LOL.

[QUOTE=MongerForSex;2303551]To Siamsin.
Let's be simpler.
Hooker is a hooker. In Brazil, there are many clubs with many freelancers where you can negotiate the price especially in Sao Paulo.

Can you build rapport with a non working girl and negotiate a better rate the first time you meet her? No, she is not hooker.
Can a non working girl refuse your offer to pay the going rate? Yes, because she doesn't like to be considered like a hooker.
Can you meet a non working girl for a freebie or reduced rate session? No because she is not a hooker, you fuck her without paying cash the first time you had sex with. So no need to repeat to fuck for a freesbie.
[/QUOTE]First the comparison to material objects like vehicles, then the comparison to a healthcare profession, now a comparison to ordinary girls vs hookers regarding if any game is required. We're going around in circles here boys. I've already agreed that Game is required for ordinary women here:

[QUOTE=Siamsin;2303153]Game goes beyond WG's in that you're able to pull ordinary chicks from just about anywhere. It works especially well in Thailand where sex, sexual preferences and sexuality is openly accepted. Thai girls are far more liberal when it comes to sex and 1 night stands with foreigners, so having good game definitely helps.

Every single 1 of us has and uses some sort of game whether we know it or not. It's not just what you say to women, but everything about you, before you even say a word. Your demeanor, body language, attire, build, hygiene, multilingualism ability, scent, aura, approach etc. Hot girls get hit on every single day of their lives. Be it walking around the mall, in their neighborhoods, at work, gym, out with friends, on their social media accounts, everywhere... Having good game allows you to stand out from the crowd, be noticed, banter, and bed the girl you desire.[/QUOTE]So your below points:

[QUOTE=MongerForSex;2303551]
Can you build rapport with a non working girl and negotiate a better rate the first time you meet her? No, she is not hooker.
Can a non working girl refuse your offer to pay the going rate? Yes, because she doesn't like to be considered like a hooker.
Can you meet a non working girl for a freebie or reduced rate session? No because she is not a hooker, you fuck her without paying cash the first time you had sex with. So no need to repeat to fuck for a freesbie.
[/QUOTE]Are irrelevant as it proves nothing other than what I've already confirmed. Or are you debating about something other than game now?

And just to clear things up a bit, Dr MongerForSex who hasn't been to Thailand, never been to Thermae, never been to a Gogo bar or a Thai freelancer club is disagreeing with experiences that Tooms and I experienced in Thailand, at Gogo bars at Thermae. Then we have Mr E who mongers nearly exclusively with freelancers when in Pattaya also disagreeing with our experiences at Gogo bars and Thermae.

I think we need to compare apples with apples boys, not apples with Jabuticaba and Durian fruit.

[QUOTE=MongerForSex;2303551]Thailand is culturally rich, many activities to do, good food, good atmpsphere like scenes and many other things.[/QUOTE]100% Agree.