Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2927890]Shame on me? Hey, I didn't lift that from social media. I lifted it from my email, from a message from an individual who's highly respected in his field. And who's been very honest in his dealings with me. Was his friend and business partner outright lying to him? I doubt it. Was he exaggerating? Maybe.

There are two sides to any story. Your sympathy for neoconservatives and Democratic Politicians causes you to believe their side. (Please note I've backed off from calling you a neoconservative or Democrat.) I just think the two sides should stop fighting and come to a solution like Korea. Some of the posters here have historically believed it was in Ukraine's best interest to avoid pursuing peace until it controls all Russian occupied territory including Crimea. They've been proven dead wrong. A lot of people died. And they're still dying.[/QUOTE]Not to any story.

There aren't two sides to a story of a serial killer and his victims. Well, let me rephrase: I'm sure serial killers can tell you all kinds of stories, but I'm not interested in them. The only stories worth listening are the stories of their victims.

Putin is much worse than a serial killer. He's a mass murderer who started a horrific, criminal war without any credible grievances. You can believe anything you want, but this supposed email you've received is pure BS. And yes, I know the history and nuances of this conflict better than you do. Much better.

There is only one side to a story where one country is attempting to destroy the other because it doesn't like their government.

Politics has nothing to do here. If you're playing at bothsidedness in this atrocious war, then your politics is the last of your problems.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2928265]Not to any story.

There aren't two sides to a story of a serial killer and his victims. Well, let me rephrase: I'm sure serial killers can tell you all kinds of stories, but I'm not interested in them. The only stories worth listening are the stories of their victims.

Putin is much worse than a serial killer. He's a mass murderer who started a horrific, criminal war without any credible grievances. You can believe anything you want, but this supposed email you've received is pure BS.

There is only one side to a story where one country is attempting to destroy the other because it doesn't like their government.[/QUOTE]Under the leadership of George W. Bush (Iraq), LBJ (Vietnam), Truman (Hiroshima and Nagasaki), FDR (carpet bombing civilians) and a lot of other presidents, the USA invaded countries, purposely killed civilians, and overthrew regimes to promote what our government thought was in the best interests of the USA. I guess many USA Presidents were mass murderers. Certainly a few "started horrific, criminal wars without any credible grievances. ".

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2928265]Politics has nothing to do here. If you're playing at bothsidedness in this atrocious war, then your politics is the last of your problems.[/QUOTE]Well, some of you gentlemen are playing at wrongheadedness. That's neither here nor there, but unfortunately many in the western political and military establishment play the same game. They've been encouraging Ukraine to fight the war to the last Ukrainian. This war has been stalemated since November of 2022, and, contrary to your and VinDici's posts for the last year or two, victory is not just around the corner. Instead hundreds of thousands have been killed and maimed.

Returning to your previous post.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2927756]Shame on you for throwing a line to Putin's thugs on this forum.

No one was afraid to speak Russian in Ukraine. Not in Donbas, not in Kyiv, not even in Lviv. The so-called language problem is a complete Russian fabrication. There are Russian-speaking fighters in AFU (who don't speak Ukrainian or speak poorly), and they do just fine with their comrades.

Donbas wasn't going anywhere until Russian green little boys poured in. Read Girkin / Strelkov who doesn't mince words about how he and his thugs brought parts of Donbas back under Russian control.[/QUOTE]From the Kyiv Post in 2019.

[I]Poll: Half of people in occupied Donbas want to join Russia
Only 5.1 percent of people living in the Russia-controlled parts of Donetsk and Luhansk regions want Ukraine to regain control over the territories under the old terms, according to the findings of a joint survey conducted by the Ukrainian Institute of the Future and the Dzerkalo Tyzhnia.Ukraine weekly newspaper with the assistance of New Image Marketing Group, which were unveiled on Nov. 9.

A special status for the region as part of Ukraine is desired by 13.4 percent while 16.2 percent insist on independence.

Half (50.9 percent) want a union with Russia and another 13.4 percent said the region should accede to Russia with a special status. For the whole of Donbas, including its Ukraine-controlled areas, 49.6 percent want it to become part of Russia, with another 13.3 percent choosing such a scenario with a special status for Donbas. A fifth (19.2 percent) see Donbas as part of Ukraine.[/I]

[URL]https://www.kyivpost.com/post/7557[/URL]

You have people living side by side in the Donbas, some of whom support Ukraine and some of who support Russia. The two sides are slaughtering each other. It begs belief that Russian supporters in Ukrainian occupied areas have nothing to fear. People on both sides are going to get fucked. That's the way it was in the Thousand Days War in Colombia, border states during the USA Civil War, and Northern Ireland. Neighbors killed each other.

I'm not sure why you're compelled to lecture me on my moral compass. Poor Blood Red's really gotten beat up. You gentlemen should realize we are, as VinDici says, anons on a mongering site, not politicians or Russian operatives. This web site doesn't have the traffic to merit the attention of propagandists or even bots.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2928265]And yes, I know the history and nuances of this conflict better than you do. Much better.[/QUOTE]Sure you do.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2928455]unfortunately many in the western political and military establishment play the same game. They've been encouraging Ukraine to fight the war to the last Ukrainian. This war has been stalemated since November of 2022[/QUOTE]Not true.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2928455]From the Kyiv Post in 2019[/QUOTE]How is a poll conducted before the start of the war and forced conscription into the meat grinder of the Ruzzian army even relevant?

Ukrainians want Russia gone from their land, if there are 5th columnists, they are welcome to leave and live in Russia at any time.

[URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cl4y1pjk2dzo[/URL]

If they can't kidnap Ukrainian children, they just kill them outright instead.

This is what the Z crew is cheering on.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2928455]Under the leadership of George W. Bush (Iraq), LBJ (Vietnam), Truman (Hiroshima and Nagasaki), FDR (carpet bombing civilians) and a lot of other presidents, the USA invaded countries, purposely killed civilians, and overthrew regimes to promote what our government thought was in the best interests of the USA. I guess many USA Presidents were mass murderers. Certainly a few "started horrific, criminal wars [b]without any credible grievances. "[/b][/QUOTE]Oh yeah? Which one.

The Iraq War was definitely a mistake, but it wasn't criminal like Putin's war.

The Vietnam War had disastrous consequences, but it wasn't criminal (although some US actions during the war could be construed as illegal). Still one way or another, the US never invaded North Vietnam. A far cry from Putin's war.

Nuclear bombardments of Japan, as well as the destruction of Dresden (which you're probably alluding to) took place during the wars that had been waged AGAINST the US by Japan and Germany respectively. It was the US that had been attacked by foreign powers! You're seriously comparing these completely justifiable actions to Putin's war?

If this list is the best you can do, then we didn't start any of the wars you mentioned except Iraq. And that one was NOT criminal.

I don't know what you're trying to prove. At first I thought you're just an isolationist who doesn't want his country and his money to get involved in another European mess. But seeing how desperately you're trying to find a justification for the unjustifiable, I honestly don't know what to think.

Are you a Russophile grasping at straws? Would explain it.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2928455]Well, some of you gentlemen are playing at wrongheadedness. That's neither here nor there, but unfortunately many in the western political and military establishment play the same game. They've been encouraging Ukraine to fight the war to the last Ukrainian. This war has been stalemated since November of 2022, and, contrary to your and VinDici's posts for the last year or two, victory is not just around the corner. Instead hundreds of thousands have been killed and maimed.[/QUOTE]Do you even realize that you're parroting Putin's propaganda? That's their post-Orwelian "newspeak". "War to the last Ukrainian". That's how all these "propacondoms" talk, from low-life forms on this forum to disinformation moguls like Solovyev and Skabeyeva.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2928455]From the Kyiv Post in 2019.

[I]Poll: Half of people in occupied Donbas want to join Russia
Only 5.1 percent of people living in the Russia-controlled parts of Donetsk and Luhansk regions want Ukraine to regain control over the territories under the old terms, according to the findings of a joint survey conducted by the Ukrainian Institute of the Future and the Dzerkalo Tyzhnia.Ukraine weekly newspaper with the assistance of New Image Marketing Group, which were unveiled on Nov. 9.

A special status for the region as part of Ukraine is desired by 13.4 percent while 16.2 percent insist on independence.

Half (50.9 percent) want a union with Russia and another 13.4 percent said the region should accede to Russia with a special status. For the whole of Donbas, including its Ukraine-controlled areas, 49.6 percent want it to become part of Russia, with another 13.3 percent choosing such a scenario with a special status for Donbas. A fifth (19.2 percent) see Donbas as part of Ukraine.[/I]

[URL]https://www.kyivpost.com/post/7557[/URL][/QUOTE]So what? Borders don't mean shit anymore?

Does any community in the world have the right to secede because that's how they feel? Are you even listening to yourself?

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2928455]You have people living side by side in the Donbas, some of whom support Ukraine and some of who support Russia. The two sides are slaughtering each other. [/QUOTE]No one was slaughtering anyone until Russian "speznaz" led by FSB operatives arrived in Donbass in 2014.

[B]Russia's Igor Strelkov: I Am Responsible for War in Eastern Ukraine[/B]

[URL]https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2014/11/21/russias-igor-strelkov-i-am-responsible-for-war-in-eastern-ukraine-a41598[/URL]

Of course, he's full of shit too because nothing gets done in Russia without an order from one man, but this is a good read. Seeing how you get your facts from emails, you might find it useful.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2928455]It begs belief that Russian supporters in Ukrainian occupied areas have nothing to fear. [/QUOTE]I'm sure each of them had something to fear, but it wasn't the language. Look, there are villages and whole cities in Eastern and Central Ukraine where thousands of people don't even speak Ukrainian, period! Which is why I know that your colleague's email is bullshit. On the other hand, all Ukrainians including ethnic Ukrainians speak Russian.

And now that the Russians are there, they detain and torture people simply for speaking Ukrainian. We don't know what happened to the girl who refused to speak to the Z-bloggers in Russian, but I'm sure we will one day. Use the auto-translate function.

[URL]https://youtu.be/o-KtrZ5TAN8[/URL]

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2928455]
I'm not sure why you're compelled to lecture me on my moral compass. Poor Blood Red's really gotten beat up. You gentlemen should realize we are, as VinDici says, anons on a mongering site, not politicians or Russian operatives. This web site doesn't have the traffic to merit the attention of propagandists or even bots.[/QUOTE]Not on your moral compass but your gullibility. You're helping Russian trolls by quoting obvious lies from your business partner. Whether or not your partner is lying or being lied to is irrelevant, but you must know better, IMHO.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2928613][URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cl4y1pjk2dzo[/URL]

If they can't kidnap Ukrainian children, they just kill them outright instead.

This is what the Z crew is cheering on.[/QUOTE]Oxfam estimates about 10,600 Ukrainian civilians died during the first 2 years of the war.

[URL]https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/ukraine-42-civilian-causalities-every-day-two-years-war#text=As%20 of%2022%20 February%202024,the%20 conflict%2 C%20 including%20587%20 children.[/URL]

In the smaller Gaza war, estimates of Palestinian deaths, mostly civilians, range from 35,000 to 138,000, and presumably Israel isn't targeting civilians.

[URL]https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/7/8/gaza-toll-could-exceed-186000-lancet-study-says[/URL]

I don't believe Russia is intentionally targeting children. If it were waging a war on civilians, hundreds of thousands would have died.

That's not to say that there aren't many civilian casualties, or that this war shouldn't stop now. It should.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2928606]Not true.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2928744]Not on your moral compass but your gullibility. [/QUOTE]I'd again encourage you to take the Tiny challenge, posed seven months ago. Open two browser windows with the link below. Leave one map at the present date, and take the other back to late November of 2022. The lines of control have changed imperceptibly. This is shaping up like World War I, endless warfare. Pursuing peace would make a lot of sense.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2876964]This is an interactive map of areas held by Russia and the Ukraine:

[URL]https://www.nzz.ch/english/ukraine-war-interactive-map-of-the-current-front-line-ld.1688087[/URL]

Open the web page in two browser windows, using the link below. Go the the first map. In one window, leave one at the current date. In the second window, take the date back to 17 November, 2022.

You'll see the two sides have been stalemated for over a year. Any change in the area occupied by Russia is imperceptible.

And how many combatants and civilians have been killed or injured during that period? Hundreds of thousands?

This will go on indefinitely, as long as the two sides have the will, the arms and the young men to continue. The West needs to put pressure on both countries to end the war. Ukraine should give up the idea it can return to pre-2014 borders. It won't happen, and in any event based on polling data the majority in the occupied areas (Crimea and Russian occupied Donbas) preferred to be affiliated with Russia instead of Ukraine before the recent hostilities broke out. Russia should accept the territorial integrity and independence of the rest of the Ukraine, and stop meddling in Ukrainian politics.

I'm not saying the West should pull the plug on aid to Ukraine. It should however push Ukraine to the negotiating table. Russia has been willing to talk for a while, although admittedly who knows if the Kremlin is sincere.

Something like what exists in Korea, a permanent cease fire along the current lines of control, would be much, much preferable to the current situation.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2928744]Oh yeah? Which one.

The Iraq War was definitely a mistake, but it wasn't criminal like Putin's war..[/QUOTE]You are truly a dumb fuck. The Iraq war, which was based on a complete lie (Iraqi WMDs that never existed) resulted in almost a million people dying and the destruction of Iraq, and made the whole middle east even more unstable and gave rise to terrorism all over Iraq. But that isn't criminal in your eyes?

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2928873]

I don't believe Russia is intentionally targeting children. If it were waging a war on civilians, hundreds of thousands would have died..[/QUOTE]Exactly. These NATO morons believe whatever the pathetic western MSM tells them. What is the military value in killing children or attacking a children's hospital? None. But these people don't get it and believe the lies put forward by the pathetic media they jerk off to daily.

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2928954] What is the military value in killing children or attacking a children's hospital? [/QUOTE]To break the moral of the population. Like Putlers tactics to kidnap Ukrainian children.

[QUOTE=ReinerOtto;2928959]To break the moral of the population. Like Putlers tactics to kidnap Ukrainian children.[/QUOTE]Are you really this stupid? If Putin wanted to do that, he can flatten all of Kiev and the rest of Ukraine in a day to break their morale as you claim is his objective. You make no sense.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2928613][URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cl4y1pjk2dzo[/URL]

If they can't kidnap Ukrainian children, they just kill them outright instead.

This is what the Z crew is cheering on.[/QUOTE]First of all, before I get into the forensics, I have to clearly point out as someone with a military background, from a military perspective, there is no value in Russia attacking a children's hospital.

Now I have seen the video, so let's start with the facts: Russia fired 38 missiles and Ukraine 'claims' they shot down 30 of them.

Now with regards to the video, you can see 5 Russian Iskender missiles coming in. The profile of the Iskender is that it has a certain wing configuration. Those 5 Iskender missiles targeted military infrastructure.

Then there's a video of the missile that hit the hospital. It does not fit the Iskender profile at all. In fact, it fits the profile of a NASAM. A NATO supplied surface to air missile that is designed to be an air defense missile. And it missed the Iskender, and when it came down, it hit the children's hospital.

If it had been an Iskender that hit the hospital as the pathetic western MSM is claiming, there would be nothing of the hospital left.

So there you go, more lies from the west and NATO exposed. This is a horrific tragedy and all the more reason to reach a negotiated settlement to end this needless war.

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2928963]If it had been an Iskender that hit the hospital as the pathetic western MSM is claiming, there would be nothing of the hospital left.

So there you go, more lies from the west and NATO exposed. This is a horrific tragedy and all the more reason to reach a negotiated settlement to end this needless war.[/QUOTE]Not true, analysis has already concluded that it was a russian missile.

The reach you desperately go to justify this kind of evil attack, it just exposes the morality of the Z team.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2928967]Not true, analysis has already concluded that it was a russian missile.

The reach you desperately go to justify this kind of evil attack, it just exposes the morality of the Z team.[/QUOTE]I already posted the analysis. It was not an Iskender. The 5 Iskender's before that hit their target as the videos prove. The hospital was hit by a NATO missile. Another case of Ukrainian AD not working as intended which is tragic.

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2929000]I already posted the analysis. It was not an Iskender. The 5 Iskender's before that hit their target as the videos prove. The hospital was hit by a NATO missile. Another case of Ukrainian AD not working as intended which is tragic.[/QUOTE]Disinformation is an easy source of money for this poster. It's amazing really how effective Russian propaganda has been on geopolitics and how ubiquitous it is, appearing even on a forum like this, which is dedicated to sex tourism. I suggest that the moderator should block this poster as a fully controlled agent of Russian disinformation.

[QUOTE=JohnClayton;2929051]Disinformation is an easy source of money for this poster. It's amazing really how effective Russian propaganda has been on geopolitics and how ubiquitous it is, appearing even on a forum like this, which is dedicated to sex tourism. I suggest that the moderator should block this poster as a fully controlled agent of Russian disinformation.[/QUOTE]You are incapable of debating me. Run along now.