Printable View
[QUOTE=Hyperion2007;2789657]If you paid 900 euros a 6 hours room in Sharks the girl laughed all the way to the bank.
For room that long the 100/60 is pretty much universal. Or at worst 150 the first hour and 100 the others.[/QUOTE]Not sure for 100/60 after first hour for escort level beauties. Not many, about 10/15 at Sharks.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2788886]
Mongers deserve the blame as well because we created this distorted market. Many mongers who own property and stocks saw their net worth double and triple during the pandemic. On paper a lot of mongers felt richer, and psychologically that made them spend like there was no tomorrow. And of course, post-lockdown many mongers engaged in "revenge-spending".[/QUOTE]This reads like a bad Bidu's version of chatgpt garbage output with information frozen fromm 2021 narrative. S&P 500 is now approximately 20% to 25% higher than early 2020. MSCI Europe is up less than 10% when measured in Euros but in dollars is flat, no return (while inflation is obviously non zero). MSCI China and a China ETF in dollars such as FXI is actually down 40%. This is as of today from early 2020 just prior to Covid.
Where does the doubling and tripling come from? Some sort of fantasy that these super monger investors magically invested exactly at the trough and sold at some perfect peak? That seldom happens and if it did, most people would be super rich. When the market is at the bottom, that's because fear is running rampant and investors are running for the exits. When markets are at the peak, sentiment is frothy and your Uber driver is offering stock tips and greed is at the peak. Not everyone is Buffett, in real life people sell at the bottom and buy near the peak. Troughs happen by definition because selling pressure far exceeds people wanting to buy and vice versa at the market peak.
And very people have their entire networth in stocks, to assume that their networth doubled or tripled.
Most people are not better off today than they were in early 2020. The highest strata of the society generally is, but that's because the rich are getting richer and have ways of protecting their wealth. Most people on a nominal basis are where they were pre Covid or worse, and due to higher inflation, are much worse in real terms. That includes mongers. Unless the only ones mongering are the ultra rich.
[QUOTE=Hyperion2007;2789657]If you paid 900 euros a 6 hours room in Sharks the girl laughed all the way to the bank.
For room that long the 100/60 is pretty much universal. Or at worst 150 the first hour and 100 the others.[/QUOTE]Yes exactly, but many guys think its 150 for every hour.
[QUOTE=HammerTime96;2789365]So 7 x 150 Euros + roughly 200 Euros for a flight = 1250 Euros she will have to earn [U]just to break even[/U] by sitting around looking bored, refusing 50430, in an FKK club where there are much fewer potential male customers than in 2019, being perhaps a slightly above average looking girl, and watching time fly by without any customers.
[/QUOTE]The average stint in Germany for most WGs seems to be between 4-8 weeks. So let's say WGs work six days a week over a six week period. Using your calculations, 36 x 150 Euros + roughly 200 Euros for a flight = 5600 Euros for break-even.
Fifty-six 100430 rooms over a thirty-six work days is achievable for most WGs. Most of those rooms are 20 minutes, which means she has more time to be on the floor to hunt for big money prey: (1) SIMPs, lovesick puppies (2) Older, lonely men who have more money than they will need in their pension years, (3) clueless tourist or inebriated casual monger. The first two categories are steady money that will sacrifice large portions of their money and time to be with their WG. Third category would be infrequent, one-off customers that she can overcharge and scam. All three will pay above the base 100 EUR price, and possibly even tip. For first-time FKK visitors, they may not even care that they are overpaying because they are overwhelmed by the "wow" factor and just overjoyed to be there.
To them, stubborn cheap charlies like me who refuse to pay the new rates deserve to leave the club with blue balls. And any time wasted with cheap charlies for legacy rates comes with an opportunity cost. In other words, some other WG catches one of the aforementioned big money prey before she is able to. Note: I am not saying I agree with their stance. I am speculating on how a young, street-smart WG with a lot of stubborn pride might sees things.
Look if these WGs were breaking even (or losing money) month-after-month, we would be noticing a lot more WGs packing their bags and returning to RO. It is not like these WGs are getting zero interest loans or subsidies that allow them to NOT be profitable but still remain in business (although I suppose a WG could ask one of her whales for a loan with zero intention of repaying).
German WGs at Palace have always charged above market rates. These WGs used their high-rates as a screening process to weed out the cheap charlies and identify the big spenders. Big spender would do a one hour room in the club, WG would then try to entice him outside the club for a multi-hour or overnight appointment at a "discount" to her normal hourly rate. Such a WG can thus appear to be sitting on her ass for 11 hours of her 12 hour shift, but actually make a substantial amount from a single tourist or businessman over a 4-5 day period. One fly-in monger that I occasionally see at Sharks actually prefers Palace for this reason.
Speculating once more, but I assume that most WGs in the 100430 era make at least 70 percent of what they made in the 50430 era. Their total hours worked in the club may remain the same but they can at least spend more time smoking and bullshitting with RO colleagues, and less time entertaining and servicing creepy men twice their age. Gen-Z seems to value mental and physical health more. And while it would be nice to make the absolute highest amount possible, they may reason it is not worth the additional stress or potential burnout.
[QUOTE=HappyTour;2789800]Depends on WGs.
Usually WGs consider 6 hour booking as whole night.
Recent returned Adriana would charge 1000 euro as she confirmed at least 150/ hour.
Betty would charge at least 1000 for 6 hours.
Sophie and other German girls would charge 900-1000 for 6 hours.
I believe only Roxi would agree 600 euro for 6 hours.
I haven't seen the new Hungarian beautiful 20 yo Lolita, Alisha. Some one claim this innocent teen only charge 50/30.[/QUOTE]I would say cute face with a piercing but not so beautiful naturals for Alisha. Hu staying close to lockers. Limited level for sex, not 50/30 with kissing and I doubt for this rate when she comes from Zurich business. Tried her after not finding a wow for nearly 7 hours, but not on my level. Sofi. De is so far higher level for sex. Some other Germans also.
[QUOTE=HappyTour;2789800]Depends on WGs.
Recent returned Adriana would charge 1000 euro as she confirmed at least 150/ hour.
Betty would charge at least 1000 for 6 hours.
Sophie and other German girls would charge 900-1000 for 6 hours.
I believe only Roxi would agree 600 euro for 6 hours.[/QUOTE]From the one that I know that would have no problem for the second hour and all the others at 100€ : Amanda, Melissa, Liv, Kendra, Abby, Lara, Ruby, Roxy, Roxana.
For almost all the girls in Sharks 600 euros is the top of what they do on one day. They know that, we know that, paying more is ridicule.
Adriana does not deserve 150€ for one hour, or even 50€ for that matter.
[QUOTE=HappyTour;2789800]I haven't seen the new Hungarian beautiful 20 yo Lolita, Alisha. Some one claim this innocent teen only charge 50/30.[/QUOTE]I have seen that, 50/30 CBJ and 30 more for BBBJ. Interesting try by a new girl.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2789901]
Fifty-six 100430 rooms over a thirty-six work days is achievable for most WGs. [/QUOTE]Sure, but don't forget: this is just to break-even.
On top of that she now will need to start paying for her lifestyle, such as rent / mortgage in Romania, her 'boyfriend's' BMW, her designer handbags, clothes, botox and ugly tattoos, paying off the loan for her silicone implants, etcetera etcetera, and we haven't even discussed local or German taxes, health insurance or a pension plan yet.
No doubt that some locally produced things are cheaper in Romania than in Western Europe so I agree that 1000 Euros earned in a German FKK will go much further in Romania paying for rent, food etc, but all the [I]good stuff[/I] (German cars, a new laptop smartphone or tablet with a fruit logo, luxury goods like parfume, designer clothes / handbags) will either cost the same or more (import taxes) in Romania.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2789901]And any time wasted with cheap charlies for legacy rates comes with an opportunity cost. In other words, some other WG catches one of the aforementioned big money prey before she is able to. Note: I am not saying I agree with their stance. I am speculating on how a young, street-smart WG with a lot of stubborn pride might sees things.[/QUOTE]I agree, but don't forget that that opportunity cost comes at a very high price when you see those girls waisting many hours doing nothing.
I dunno what the last time was that you were in Sharks, but the place is relatively EMPTY compared to 2019. There hardly [I]is[/I] an opportunity cost, because there simply [I]are[/I] relatively few customers. Refusing a 50430 customer means gambling that a better 100430 customer will arrive within the next 30-40 minutes, so I doubt that this is a successful strategy when you see many girls (even the good looking ones) sitting around idly for [U]hours on end.[/U] Seriously: what was the last time you were in Sharks?
Sure, they can talk to their colleagues and smoke cigarettes, but this also 'scares' away potential customers because many men don't feel like invading into a group of Romanian girls who are deeply involved in a conversation, having prying ears from other WGs listening in on the conversation, the price negotiation and perhaps the 'unusual' service requests from the customer. Besides that, perhaps in the large group of 5- girls, there are 2 girls you've been to a room with before, so by selecting a different girl you might 'offend' the other 2. Many guys prefer a much more subtle approach, so appearing 'single and available' and offering some seclusion and privacy is IMO a key aspect of a successful WG, and it's the hot ones that sit / stand around [U]by themselves[/U] that are usually much more successful in catching customers. But as I said before, Sharks is relatively EMPTY when compared to 2019 (even during weekends), so of course eventually all girls become bored and start to group together so they can chat to make the time pass more quickly, making things worse for themselves. I always visit during the weekends, and I have [U]never[/U] seen any waiting times for rooms in 2022 or now in 2023, that's how empty it is.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2789901]
Look if these WGs were breaking even (or losing money) month-after-month, we would be noticing a lot more WGs packing their bags and returning to RO. [/QUOTE]Sorry but here I have to disagree and basically use your own argument against you.
Two points; 1) I never said that they are [U]losing[/U] money, but I [U]do[/U] speculate that they have taken a serious financial blow and some are barely scraping by. 2) in your previous reply you made some interesting points which can be summed up with 'Pride will come before the fall' when discussing how people refuse to acknowledge reality. I wonder how many girls are perhaps making some financial sacrifices in order to 'subsidise' their 100430 Utopia.
Here's what you wrote about male customers in 2008, by why wouldn't this also be true for WGs regarding my 2nd point above?
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2788886]Emotions ALWAYS override logic. The primary human emotion at play here is pride. Once these WGs started making 150-200 EUR, they are not going to want to take a backward step in their rate. It is hard to blame them. I remember speaking to some American men in the club who lost their six-figure jobs back in 2008. They could have taken lower-paying jobs, but many chose to remain unemployed for 2-3 years. A few depleted a large portion of their savings as a result.[/QUOTE]
Well reasoning McAdonis;.
People who regularly visit in this forum will notice that, the vast majority of people who would pay EUR100430 are international tourists who are one off visitor of the FKK once in a lifetime or only once in a few years. For them it does not matter even with the current price hike. But it will matter when they want to come back and find that that place have ceased to exist. The 50430 might not be suitable with the current inflation rate but 100430 ? That is 100% increase, while the salary are increasing less than 10% in majority of cases. No wonder the local people or people who could easily reach the place are quite selective now.
Those who said that the price lower than 100430, given that the number of customers remain the same is just to reach break even, should go back to school learning Math and Business. Also a lot of assumptions does not make sense such as assuming the girl will stay for just one week and go home to take a break.
Also, look at in Greece, Spain forum and see the scene. In various area in Athens for instance there are reasonable number of paces where people could get EUR-20/30 for a quickie with young good looking girls from former USSR countries or other EE girls. But probably these girls make much more money than their counterpart in other countries due to the number of visitors.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2789901]The average stint in Germany for most WGs seems to be between 4-8 weeks. So let's say WGs work six days a week over a six week period. Using your calculations, 36 x 150 Euros + roughly 200 Euros for a flight = 5600 Euros for break-even.
Fifty-six 100430 rooms over a thirty-six work days is achievable for most WGs. Most of those rooms are 20 minutes, which means she has more time to be on the floor to hunt for big money prey: (1) SIMPs, lovesick puppies (2) Older, lonely men who have more money than they will need in their pension years, (3) clueless tourist or inebriated casual monger. The first two categories are steady money that will sacrifice large portions of their money and time to be with their WG. Third category would be infrequent, one-off customers that she can overcharge and scam. All three will pay above the base 100 EUR price, and possibly even tip. For first-time FKK visitors, they may not even care that they are overpaying because they are overwhelmed by the "wow" factor and just overjoyed to be there.
To them, stubborn cheap charlies like me who refuse to pay the new rates deserve to leave the club with blue balls. And any time wasted with cheap charlies for legacy rates comes with an opportunity cost. In other words, some other WG catches one of the aforementioned big money prey before she is able to. Note: I am not saying I agree with their stance. I am speculating on how a young, street-smart WG with a lot of stubborn pride might sees things.
Look if these WGs were breaking even (or losing money) month-after-month, we would be noticing a lot more WGs packing their bags and returning to RO. It is not like these WGs are getting zero interest loans or subsidies that allow them to NOT be profitable but still remain in business (although I suppose a WG could ask one of her whales for a loan with zero intention of repaying).
German WGs at Palace have always charged above market rates. These WGs used their high-rates as a screening process to weed out the cheap charlies and identify the big spenders. Big spender would do a one hour room in the club, WG would then try to entice him outside the club for a multi-hour or overnight appointment at a "discount" to her normal hourly rate. Such a WG can thus appear to be sitting on her ass for 11 hours of her 12 hour shift, but actually make a substantial amount from a single tourist or businessman over a 4-5 day period. One fly-in monger that I occasionally see at Sharks actually prefers Palace for this reason.
Speculating once more, but I assume that most WGs in the 100430 era make at least 70 percent of what they made in the 50430 era. Their total hours worked in the club may remain the same but they can at least spend more time smoking and bullshitting with RO colleagues, and less time entertaining and servicing creepy men twice their age. Gen-Z seems to value mental and physical health more. And while it would be nice to make the absolute highest amount possible, they may reason it is not worth the additional stress or potential burnout.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Adindas;2790070]People who regularly visit in this forum will notice that, the vast majority of people who would pay EUR100430 are international tourists who are one off visitor of the FKK once in a lifetime or only once in a few years. For them it does not matter even with the current price hike.[/QUOTE]Anybody who have been in Sharks in the last year know that the vast majority of customers are of course German and Turkish locals, the second public would probably be French, and far away after that you start to have Americans, English, Japanese and all the others.
The people who post on ISG are an insignificant part of the clients.
Have you even been in Sharks once in the last 12 months?
[QUOTE=Adindas;2790070]People who regularly visit in this forum will notice that, the vast majority of people who would pay EUR100430 are international tourists who .[/QUOTE]Wrong!
Current 90% visitors in Sharks are local German or Turkish. They all accept 100/30 rate. There were barely any Asians mongers visited Sharks in the past three years due to pandemic restrictions.
Newbie to Sharks. Does the customer have any recourse against a girl who agrees to something on the club floor (I. E. Full sex 70/30 min), but then in the room only wants to give a handjob? I imagine it is just her word against yours. Or do you have a 5-10 min no penetration grace period after entering the room in which to go back to the desk and dispute?
[QUOTE=Rodeo9112;2790120]Newbie to Sharks. Does the customer have any recourse against a girl who agrees to something on the club floor (I. E. Full sex 70/30 min), but then in the room only wants to give a handjob? I imagine it is just her word against yours. Or do you have a 5-10 min no penetration grace period after entering the room in which to go back to the desk and dispute?[/QUOTE]At Sharks, all you can do is to give her only 50 if you stayed less than 30 mn, but you won't find many other girls. If you didn't touch her and didn't let her touching you, then nothing to pay.
[QUOTE=HappyTour;2790108]Wrong!
Current 90% visitors in Sharks are local German or Turkish. They all accept 100/30 rate. There were barely any Asians mongers visited Sharks in the past three years due to pandemic restrictions.[/QUOTE]Many Asians on last Saturday. I agree most Germans and locals pay 100/30 , some even pay more. They already paid under covid lockdown.
[QUOTE=Adindas;2790070]Well reasoning McAdonis;.
People who regularly visit in this forum will notice that, the vast majority of people who would pay EUR100430 are international tourists who are one off visitor of the FKK once in a lifetime or only once in a few years. For them it does not matter even with the current price hike. But it will matter when they want to come back and find that that place have ceased to exist. The 50430 might not be suitable with the current inflation rate but 100430 ? That is 100% increase, while the salary are increasing less than 10% in majority of cases. No wonder the local people or people who could easily reach the place are quite selective now.
Those who said that the price lower than 100430, given that the number of customers remain the same is just to reach break even, should go back to school learning Math and Business. Also a lot of assumptions does not make sense such as assuming the girl will stay for just one week and go home to take a break.
Also, look at in Greece, Spain forum and see the scene. In various area in Athens for instance there are reasonable number of paces where people could get EUR-20/30 for a quickie with young good looking girls from former USSR countries or other EE girls. But probably these girls make much more money than their counterpart in other countries due to the number of visitors.[/QUOTE]If you really visited you would know Germans and locals pay 100/30 since covid lockdown.
[QUOTE=Rodeo9112;2790120]Newbie to Sharks. Does the customer have any recourse against a girl who agrees to something on the club floor (I. E. Full sex 70/30 min), but then in the room only wants to give a handjob? I imagine it is just her word against yours. Or do you have a 5-10 min no penetration grace period after entering the room in which to go back to the desk and dispute?[/QUOTE]If you started having sex and then notice that she doesn't keep the promises you discussed before and she agreed to, I would break off, ask her to go to the reception with me, explain the problem and try to find a solution for both of you.
If you did not have sex with her, I would leave the room immediately and tell the girl that she will not get any money because she wants to change the agreements and thus not keep them.
But most guys won't discuss and pay full price at the locker, they are ashamed and afraid of what might happen (club ban, the girl tells the story to her friends and they watch you afterwards, fear of a possible pimp etc.).
A bit of horror scenario! But if you pay full price in both cases, girls will play with you in the future. They will talk about you to other girls, you are weak, you are easy to fuck with.