Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1562420]What was once quite a free for all is now far more subdued. It did a lot to kill the free spirited fun that was had. Took a few years to really take effect, but was a major contributor to the kind of boring scene we see now.[/QUOTE]I guess that's the thing I've been trying to put my finger on. The missing "sanuk."

Speaking of dancing, I will never forget the first choreographed dance I saw in Pattaya, late '90s. Can't remember the name of the bar. The stage was illuminated with black light. Several, maybe 10 or 15, girls came onto the stage, fully nude, and did a rather nice dance number to Sailor's "Teddy Bear." (Kiss me here and touch me there / I want to be your Teddy Bear). Anyway, about 3/4 of the way through the number they all reached inside their pussies and pulled out long strings of razor blades (probably bits of paper resembling razor blades) , or something, that were illuminated by the black light. They finished the number dancing and holding onto the strings of blades. Strangest thing I think I've ever seen.

[QUOTE=Syzygies; 1562432]And dead wrong. Most Soapies are designed to sit and hang out and eventually decide if you want to take a girl or not. You would be weird if you did it daily. Annies is an exception. That is why its only a half-soapy in style of operation. No (other)"Soapy" has a ring the bell type of operation.

I don't call it watching "eye-candy", its more like window shopping, with a view to buy when something really interesting shows up.

Annies is not a large Soapy. Try Amsterdam, La Defense, La Belle, Utopia, and sit in the lounge as long as you like. Chao Praya II has a large fishbowl, and they also have an entertainment club with singers on stage. You can sit and eat in either part. Tarawadee has a big area to eat and drink and soapy girl seating areas are on several sides.[/QUOTE]That's right, hang out and EVENTUALLY DECIDE or NOT. Once again, in contrast Go Go's you can JUST hang out over and over and over again and NEVER do ANY DECIDING.

The point is that is a fundamental difference between these two different venues.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1562722]That's right, hang out and EVENTUALLY DECIDE or NOT. Once again, in contrast Go Go's you can JUST hang out over and over and over again and NEVER do ANY DECIDING.

The point is that is a fundamental difference between these two different venues.[/QUOTE]You can go to the restaurant at a soapy every day for dinner, and just look, eat, and hang out. You have no need to decide anything. In both venues girls are on display, just in different ways. In soapies they are clothed, there is no loud music, and pretty good food. It is quite an open and welcoming environment. Papasans will not push you to choose in most of them. In Go Go's you see girls in various forms of undress, but in order to "hang out" you must buy a drink and in most are hounded to buy another before the first one is finished.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1562703]I guess that's the thing I've been trying to put my finger on. The missing "sanuk."[/QUOTE]Yep, it is just not that "sanuk" anymore. I think that goes for the gals and the guys. It is more like a meat grinder.

Think I have stated before, about two years ago we sat at the little rail bar outside the ST hotel on the second floor of NEP. Started watching the gals head in with their dudes and decide to time the happy "couples." Over the two hours we were there there were lots of customers. In fact, after about 15 min, there was a line.

The average ST sesh lasted 25 min. Only one pair were in there longer than 30 min. So if you budget for two people each taking two showers, dressing and undressing, that leaves a pretty small amount of time for "the act." One gal had two BFs in the 90 min we were there. She was a looker, but was faster in the room than the average. Each of her seshes was about 20 min. Many think of ST as a wham bam experience.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1562783]You can go to the restaurant at a soapy every day for dinner, and just look, eat, and hang out. You have no need to decide anything. In both venues girls are on display, just in different ways. In soapies they are clothed, there is no loud music, and pretty good food. It is quite an open and welcoming environment. Papasans will not push you to choose in most of them. In Go Go's you see girls in various forms of undress, but in order to "hang out" you must buy a drink and in most are hounded to buy another before the first one is finished.[/QUOTE]

Now you're talking about having dinners and spending a lot of bahts, or perhaps prices are like Took Lae Dee at Foodland? LOL.

The bottom line is there is far more pressure to spend large dollars in one of the luxury Soapies than there is in comparable terms in a typical Go Go, thus Go Go's in terms of ENTERTAINMENT VALUE (my original point a week back) are a far better deal in that context.

The Soapy palaces in fact can be close to ghost town level in regard to amount of customers, and this sometimes includes periods of time that should be busy lets say certain times on a Friday night, so someone attempting to use it as a low cost entertainment venue would standout like a cueball. Add to this 30 plus sets of eyeballs sitting idle and making no money at all (unlike a Go Go girl at least making base pay) staring at you from the fishbowls (some in fact are not one way glass) while you have a drink, and its very high pressure.

In practical terms one could not drop by for example Poseidon (just to hang) lets say 12 nights in a row, yet its completely doable at Rainbow 4. Tip mamasans 20 bahts now and then and they will get off your back, tip them a 100 baht and some will do a (Michael Jackson style) moonwalk.

Soapie pimps don't do moonwalks as far as I can tell.

Go Go's in fact are very good low cost entertainment venues

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1562789]Yep, it is just not that "sanuk" anymore. I think that goes for the gals and the guys. It is more like a meat grinder.

Think I have stated before, about two years ago we sat at the little rail bar outside the ST hotel on the second floor of NEP. Started watching the gals head in with their dudes and decide to time the happy "couples." Over the two hours we were there there were lots of customers. In fact, after about 15 min, there was a line.

The average ST sesh lasted 25 min. Only one pair were in there longer than 30 min. So if you budget for two people each taking two showers, dressing and undressing, that leaves a pretty small amount of time for "the act." One gal had two BFs in the 90 min we were there. She was a looker, but was faster in the room than the average. Each of her seshes was about 20 min. Many think of ST as a wham bam experience.[/QUOTE]Your choice of venues to survey, in this case short term rooms, has a bit of self selection bias. Go Go girls can and do discriminate as to which customers get to do ST at customer hotels vs those that must go to the ST room.

Ok sanuk is less today, but not sure if your survey proves it.

[QUOTE=Western787;1562866]Add to this 30 plus sets of eyeballs sitting idle and making no money at all (unlike a Go Go girl at least making base pay) staring at you from the fishbowls (some in fact are not one way glass) while you have a drink, and its very high pressure.[/QUOTE]Most experienced Soapy goers are not feeling "very high pressure". Maybe its so, at rip off type of Soapies like J One, Cupidy, etc. I have sat for hours at Soapies in years gone by, particularly Chao Praya 2 where I used to hang for long periods, eating, drinking, waiting for some eventual knockout girl to show up, and resting between sessions sometimes. Sometimes my favourite mamasan Anne would sit with me for a while and just chat, when she wasn't busy, bringing me up to date on latest gossip and general Soapy happenings. Obviously I might buy her a drink or give a good tip. I always develop a relationship with certain staff at Soapies that I attend at all regularly in order to get better service and information.

BTW. 100 Baht tip to cheer-person, in La Belle, Utopia, Amsterdam, etc. For being helpful is not "Moon-walk" stuff. Its very normal. 20 Baht tips is more for the drink waitresses who make incredibly low money without a big top-up from tips. I always tip them well as I feel sorry for how little they get paid.

[QUOTE=Syzygies; 1562881]Most experienced Soapy goers are not feeling "very high pressure". Maybe its so, at rip off type of Soapies like J One, Cupidy, etc. I have sat for hours at Soapies in years gone by, particularly Chao Praya 2 where I used to hang for long periods, eating, drinking, waiting for some eventual knockout girl to show up, and resting between sessions sometimes. Sometimes my favourite mamasan Anne would sit with me for a while and just chat, when she wasn't busy, bringing me up to date on latest gossip and general Soapy happenings. Obviously I might buy her a drink or give a good tip. I always develop a relationship with certain staff at Soapies that I attend at all regularly in order to get better service and information.

BTW. 100 Baht tip to cheer-person, in La Belle, Utopia, Amsterdam, etc. For being helpful is not "Moon-walk" stuff. Its very normal. 20 Baht tips is more for the drink waitresses who make incredibly low money without a big top-up from tips. I always tip them well as I feel sorry for how little they get paid.[/QUOTE]Those with established track records in specific P4P venues worldwide can and often do get special perks and privileges and even information others don't necessarily get. For example in AMPs in the west with continual provider rotations, established and large spending customers are often informed ahead of time exactly when new arrivals will show up in the city, where they are coming from and detailed descriptions of their appearance and so forth.

So modifying what I previously stated: "excepting patrons with a long established track record of spending in some context in a specific Soapy, for the ordinary random visiting monger to Bangkok, the bottom line is there is far more pressure to spend large dollars in one of the luxury Soapies than there is in comparable terms in a typical Go Go, thus Go Go's in terms of pure entertainment value per baht are usually a far better deal in that context.

Does anyone know if Baccara has reopened after the fire? Are the hotties still there?

[QUOTE=Western787; 1562866]Now you're talking about having dinners and spending a lot of bahts, or perhaps prices are like Took Lae Dee at Foodland? LOL.

The bottom line is there is far more pressure to spend large dollars in one of the luxury Soapies than there is in comparable terms in a typical Go Go, thus Go Go's in terms of ENTERTAINMENT VALUE (my original point a week back) are a far better deal in that context.

The Soapy palaces in fact can be close to ghost town level in regard to amount of customers, and this sometimes includes periods of time that should be busy lets say certain times on a Friday night, so someone attempting to use it as a low cost entertainment venue would standout like a cueball. Add to this 30 plus sets of eyeballs sitting idle and making no money at all (unlike a Go Go girl at least making base pay) staring at you from the fishbowls (some in fact are not one way glass) while you have a drink, and its very high pressure.

In practical terms one could not drop by for example Poseidon (just to hang) lets say 12 nights in a row, yet its completely doable at Rainbow 4. Tip mamasans 20 bahts now and then and they will get off your back, tip them a 100 baht and some will do a (Michael Jackson style) moonwalk.

Soapie pimps don't do moonwalks as far as I can tell.

Go Go's in fact are very good low cost entertainment venues[/QUOTE]Sure you could drop by there to eat and hang out multiple nights and I am sure many do. We used to go to Emanu just to eat and gawk at least once a week. Often we would see the same Thai dudes doing the same thing. You can go into the restaurant and be a little out of eyesight of the gals. Any who cares if there are eyes on you? They are used to it. There is no pressure at all. The employees are very professional and the food is not expensive. If you were talking about an oily, you would be correct.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1562880]Your choice of venues to survey, in this case short term rooms, has a bit of self selection bias. Go Go girls can and do discriminate as to which customers get to do ST at customer hotels vs those that must go to the ST room.

Ok sanuk is less today, but not sure if your survey proves it.[/QUOTE]The point is that not too long ago the majority of customers were not hurried like this. In fact it was the customer not the gal that made the call, quite the opposite of what you state above. Up to you, meant up to you. ST LT whatever. You would not have seen this meat grinder ST machine at work like you do now. Customers were just treated better. I am sure in the 80s it was better still. Barring a complete economic collapse, which I don't think will ever happen, the industry will continue in this direction. The girls are different, but more importantly the customers are different. Expectations are not what they were. There are more and more non-Western customers and they expect different things from P4P girls. 10 years ago there were a few bars where you saw non-Western guys, but a very few, barring the Japanese only clubs on Soi Thaniya. Now walk into a Go Go and it is a very multi-cultural scene. I believe that most non-Western dudes are not looking for GFE or PSE. They are simple looking for good "service," which is a far more detached and less intimate experience for the customer and provider. It is easier for the gals as well. Who can blame them?

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;1562905]Does anyone know if Baccara has reopened after the fire? Are the hotties still there?[/QUOTE]I believe I heard the ground floor was back in business, but I did not enter to check. I mean don't really like this bar and most its girls much. The girls look like too bored out of their brains and too fake.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1562915]The point is that not too long ago the majority of customers were not hurried like this. In fact it was the customer not the gal that made the call, quite the opposite of what you state above. Up to you, meant up to you. ST LT whatever. You would not have seen this meat grinder ST machine at work like you do now. Customers were just treated better. I am sure in the 80s it was better still. Barring a complete economic collapse, which I don't think will ever happen, the industry will continue in this direction. The girls are different, but more importantly the customers are different. Expectations are not what they were. There are more and more non-Western customers and they expect different things from P4P girls. 10 years ago there were a few bars where you saw non-Western guys, but a very few, barring the Japanese only clubs on Soi Thaniya. Now walk into a Go Go and it is a very multi-cultural scene. I believe that most non-Western dudes are not looking for GFE or PSE. They are simple looking for good "service," which is a far more detached and less intimate experience for the customer and provider. It is easier for the gals as well. Who can blame them?[/QUOTE]I concede the (downhill) trend, and worse the news on China 1. It will soon surpass the USA as the world's #1 economy 2. China will soon have 25 to 30 million males with no corresponding female partners. The first wave is now in process where males will find it difficult to meet same age or younger corresponding females.

It could be a ballbusters from hell situation in the making, the likes of which the world has never known.

Add to this leveling off of Thai birthrates (both genders) the last 15 to 20 years, and could mean a much steeper downward slope.

The final straw could be when the Chinese invasion starts in earnest, it could bid up not just P4P prices directly but housing and everything in between, itself pushing up P4P even further. Now Burma could change the equation, but its hard to conceive of things getting cheaper in Bangkok. All things equal, imagine what Go Go's would have to charge JUST if apartment and hotel prices alone in Bangkok were approx 5 times higher than they now are, basically New York City housing cost level

So one needs to enjoy what is available here and now at current prices.

[QUOTE=Western787;1562968]So one needs to enjoy what is available here and now at current prices.[/QUOTE]Yes Yes. Forget all the Nostradamus stuff and the idle speculation to explain reason for changes and psychology of the masses (like in Asimovs Psycho-history fictions). Just accept how things are and get on with it.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1562915]The point is that not too long ago the majority of customers were not hurried like this. In fact it was the customer not the gal that made the call, quite the opposite of what you state above. Up to you, meant up to you. ST LT whatever. You would not have seen this meat grinder ST machine at work like you do now. Customers were just treated better. I am sure in the 80s it was better still. Barring a complete economic collapse, which I don't think will ever happen, the industry will continue in this direction. The girls are different, but more importantly the customers are different. Expectations are not what they were. There are more and more non-Western customers and they expect different things from P4P girls. 10 years ago there were a few bars where you saw non-Western guys, but a very few, barring the Japanese only clubs on Soi Thaniya. Now walk into a Go Go and it is a very multi-cultural scene. I believe that most non-Western dudes are not looking for GFE or PSE. They are simple looking for good "service," which is a far more detached and less intimate experience for the customer and provider. It is easier for the gals as well. Who can blame them?[/QUOTE]Yes I agree. Japanese presence is a much bigger percentage of customers. Girls don't have to put up with Farangs as much and take whatever they could get.

The number of superstar girls per bar has declined on average meaning they have less competition. They have the upper hand as many customers are trying to get to them. In mot bars I go I have only one girl I like a lot and in some bars she is the most popular booked out girl. These girls know they can get 3 STs minimum per night, and only take long time when everything is favourable to them. The top girls don't have to take a lot of crap from bad customers. They don't have to just take 3 or 4K long times. The top Suzie Wong was willing to give me LT and did not negotiate the price (in fact never quoted me a price I can remember). She knows I am not the stingy type. She was prepared to come to my Hotel for a swim for no charge too in her own time. Smart girl with business sense. However she never gave me good service until chemistry developed. So first time she wasn't great. I did not BF her for long time, then gave her another shot when chemistry had improved greatly. Chemistry matters a lot with some girls. I am a guy who does not burn my bridges even when I get a mediocre experience. The reward is girls change their attitude to me to the better sometimes, and suddenly improve out of sight. Newbie girls can improve rapidly too when they have been lacking in skills and need training.

There is still plenty of "its up to you" but not over choosing ST or LT. LT is far less available unless the girl feels totally right about it. Girls know that with some customers they will not get a reasonable sleep for one reason or another.