Phnom Penh

[QUOTE=Hippie]I have not posted on this board for quite awhile. Every time I read it, I get so disgusted by the stupidity being posted that I just log back out, but this time I have decided not to do so. I have been living in Phnom Penh for a awhile now. The prices some people are paying has gotten ridiculous, but what is even more ridiculous is when the people who pay these stupid prices come on this board and insist the price they paid was truly the going rate, refusing to listen to people who know better. At best they might admit that cheaper prices are possible, but then say that is only for ugly girls. Bullshit. They can't admit that their knowledge of the scene and bargaining skills sucked and they just got taken advantage of.

If I offend you, too bad. You can look at my previous posts and see that I seldom make such strong comments. I wouldn't care about what people write, but it is finally starting to have an effect and there actually are some girls in the hostess bars who are refusing to go for less than $40 now, because one or two guys paid that or more. Thankfully, they are still in the very small minority, although the number of girls who will start by asking for that amount is growing rapidly. Most will rapidly come down in price as soon as you politely (and sometimes impolitely) tell them that there is no way you will pay that much.

Guys, you have every right to pay whatever you want. I don't like it when the two week millionaires overpay, but I would never say you don't have a right to. However, at least admit you were overpaying, and don't use any excuse like "she deserved it" or "I make that much in an hour back home." This is not the west. If these girls were not working in bars, they would make less than $100 per month in a factory or restaurant. The going rate for ST (outside of the brothels where it is still $5) is $10, with a few really good looking girls getting $15 in high season. For LT, the price is $20 -$25. This is for freelancers and many hostess bar girls. In some hostess bars, the girls will insist on $20 or even $25 for ST but this is only in bars where no distinction is made between a ST barfine and LT. By going with you, the girl is forfeiting her salary for the night and sometimes paying an additional fee to the bar, whether you want her all night or for an hour. I have never paid more, and nobody has ever been pissed off, at least not when I paid the upper number of the ranges I have given, and usually not when I paid the lower. I'm not grandfathered or getting special "local" pricing, because I don't take girls all that often, I simply know what I am doing, and it does not take much. When friends come to visit, they have no problem paying the same price. Some even get better prices than what I have said, but they also get turned down a lot. However, since last high season, there have been a few hotties who have been paid $40 or $50 by enough guys that they have now decided everyone should pay that (except when rent is due). If you run into one of them, you can pay it or go to another bar where you will find someone just as hot for half the price. If people keep overpaying, that may not be true in a year or two, but thankfully it still is now.

For those who want to pay a fair price (not a lowball price that will only work with someone who is desperate) but just don't know how, the keys are to be firm and to know what the price should be. I generally advise that you never ask a price. If you feel that you really should arrange a price in advance (I almost never do), start by TELLING the girl how much you will give her, or at worst, name your price and ask if that is correct. (Be prepared for a potentially much more difficult bargaining session if you do this, however.) Use common sense. Don't discuss money loudly, where other girls can hear and it becomes a status/face issue. Don't ask a Khmer girl in front of other girls if she gives BJs. If she won't meet your price, or brings friends into the discussion to try to convince you the price is too low, just politely say sorry and ask to pay the bill (or you can be a jerk, like some guys are, but I don't recommend it). Odds are she will accept your price before you walk out of the bar, and leave smiling. If not, there is a good chance she will do so the next time you come in. BTW, I have had more than one girl throw a fit when I paid $10 for ST or $20 for LT, then call me a day later asking to come back over, or be all over me the next time I came into her bar. They never complain a second time. It is just a game they have learned to try to extract more money from you.

For Cyrcee, the ST price has gone up to $20 plus a $3 lady drink, unless you pay the $5 barfine, in which case you only need to pay the girl $15. (If anyone is still getting it for $15 with no barfine, please say so.)

Walkabout and Sharkey are indeed pretty grim these days, but I still see the occasional 8 or 9 on the rare times I go. Martini, however, is packed with hot Vietnamese girls from 9PM until 1AM or so, and you can find some attractive Khmers in there, as well. I can't imagine how anyone can think otherwise. The girls are mostly rather hardened pros, but they are definitely attractive. Heart of Darkness is a bit more hit and miss than it used to be, and pretty empty before 11PM. I assume it will start to fill up with backpackers again in October, as usual.[/QUOTE]

Hippie is spot on. I was having the same thoughts. You guys that dont mind paying more should be in Thailand at least there you can get a much bigger pool of girls and girls that will offer a much greater range and quality of service.

The girls in Cambodia are ripping you off for these prices esp given the services they provide.

Thanks Hippie, well said and all true!

BTW, 80% of the hostess bars here are within a 10-15 min walk. The rest are around 5 min on a bike or tuk tuk, except Martini which is about 15 min away from the main area.

[QUOTE=Sammon]But for a guy on vacation for a few days it is different. We go there to find girls as quickly as possible and get down to business.[/QUOTE]Exactly. When I've spent a month or two in PP for work I go back to the same bars often enough that I get great girls at good prices. But if I've been away a while and am only in town for a couple days, it usually takes more cash to get what I want. I'll happily pay that. It's my hard-earned money and I'll spend it however I like. And if the Overpayment Police disapprove, I sincerely and humbly, uh, couldn't care less.

[QUOTE=Betong] And if the Overpayment Police disapprove, I sincerely and humbly, uh, couldn't care less.[/QUOTE]

And that is why this and/or any other forum for PP doesn't get updated for the good spots by us living here.

[QUOTE=Mongering1]And that is why this and/or any other forum for PP doesn't get updated for the good spots by us living here.[/QUOTE]Well I've lived there and contributed reports, so sorry if I wasn't supposed to. These days I'm mostly just passing through, and despite excellent guidance from friends who still live there, yes, I often end up paying more than they do. I want quality and I don't want to spend days getting it.

One feature of a free market is that different people can and do pay different prices for the same goods or services. The other day on Air Asia I sat next to a guy who had paid almost four times as much for the flight as I did. Was he foolish to pay so much? Of course not. He was paying for the flexibility and convenience of a last-minute seat. Was he raising the price for the rest of us? Just the contrary: he was helping to subsidize low fares like mine. I won't argue that mongering is exactly comparable, but it's close enough.

[QUOTE=Mongering1]And that is why this and/or any other forum for PP doesn't get updated for the good spots by us living here.[/QUOTE]
This is the key to keeping prices low and spots unspoiled. All good information should be given through pm's to those who understand how to keep prices low and who don't spoil markets.

But it seems like this "spoil" trend is here to stay. Asia is getting way to prosperous and it's only inevitable that all good spots will be ruined. Just look what happened to Japan, Hong Kong and Singapore. Back in the day these spots were know for cheap sexy girls. Look at the way Thailand is changing too.

There is too much money going around and the demand for pussy is higher than ever. It used to be that girls were fighting over guys, but now its the other way around. You can't complain when I guy wants quality pussy and pays for it, because there are others in line who will gladly overpay just to get the girl. The tables have turned. You just got to accept it and move on.

Most of the complainers are guys with little money. The guys with deep pockets never complain. I wish I had deep pockets!

1. Some pay more than others

2. Some pay less than others

3. Others pay somewhere in between

also

1. The ones that pay more wish they had/could pay less

2. The ones who paid less want to keep paying less, don't want to pay more

3. Some couldn't care less (or not much) about the discussion.

I believe this same discussion goes on at all the boards I have read.

People do what they do....

Best kept secrets are best kept secret.

[QUOTE=Roguesta]Best kept secrets are best kept secret.[/QUOTE]I'm trying to think of the last real secret place in Phnom Penh. (Pacific Hotel, 1994? Toul Kork, before the NGOs came? Sophie's, back in the first year or so, when it was still good?) I mean, places like Brunei or Palawan you've really got to know which door to knock on. In PP it's all pretty much out in the open.

Keeping quiet about a place to protect it from attention from NGOs and authorities is fine. But trying to keep a place secret to prevent prices from going up . . . good luck on that one.

Fred Gold, good summary except for the part about people who paying more wishing they had paid less. Some do, and they are the people I bother to post for. Many don't care if they pay more. Also, I agree that similar discussions happen for any area, but I have never personally seen one where person after person keeps trying to insist that the prices they paid was the going rate, and everyone who paid less either does not realize the price has increased, gets a "local-special" rate, or went with a less attractive girl. It gets tiresome.

Betong, it sounds as if you realize you are paying more than you have to, but don't care because you are not in town that often. As I said, I personally wish guys would not do that because if enough do then it drives the price up, but you certainly have the right to do so if you wish.

Sammon, you just don't get what I am saying, either because you don't want to or because I did not do a good enough job of communicating. The advice I was giving was not for people who live here and can take their time. I am very busy and rarely go out. When I do go out with the intention of taking a girl home, I am very picky. I only want someone that I find extremely attractive, and my tastes seem to coincide pretty much with the mainstream. While I technically have the option of coming back another night, this thought does not enter into my mind because the reality is that I want a girl right then, not a few days or weeks later. I have never paid more than $25 LT, whether the girl came from a hostess bar or freelancer place. I have also seen girls every bit as good looking at Heart and Martini as I have at any hostess bar, but I admit that shopping at Heart takes some patience and a willingness to cut your losses and come back another time, which is why I did not mention it much. If you want to pay the rates you mentioned, OK, but don't make the mistake of thinking you have to pay them in order to get the quality of girl you want.

[QUOTE=Betong]yes, I often end up paying more than they do. I want quality and I don't want to spend days getting it.
[/QUOTE]
Fully agree. Quality comes with a price, it's worldwide the same.
Where can you get a Mercedes for the price of a Hyundai?

Enjoy!

taxi driver sovan mey who was a regular on this board won’t be providing any more service for the next 12 years or so. he was sentenced today for his role as purveyor of **** girl.

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phnom penh municipal court yesterday sentenced an american man in absentia to 17 years in prison after finding him guilty of buying sex from three **** girls and producing child pornography during a trip to cambodia in january. craig thomas carr, 59, was arrested on january 21, and the municipal court later charged him with purchasing sex from three 14-year-old girls in phnom penh and kandal province.

he was deported in may to the united states through operation twisted traveller – an arrangement by which americans suspected of committing sex crimes overseas can be tried in the us – and charged in a us district court in washington state. but because court proceedings in cambodia had begun at the time of his deportation, the domestic case went ahead. defence lawyer dun vibol said it was “illogical” for his client to receive what he called a heavy sentence in light of the fact that he faced similar charges in the us.

during a hearing in washington state on july 27, carr pleaded guilty to having sex with **** girls in cambodia. he faces a sentence of 15 to 30 years in the us case if found guilty. “according to the principle of law, it seems illogical for my client to receive two verdicts in cambodia and america on the same case,” he said. “he should not have been deported to face trial in the us.” but samleang seila, director of the child protection ngo action pour les enfants, which provided lawyers for the victims, said he was happy with the verdict and sentence handed down yesterday, even though carr was unlikely to serve time in cambodia. he said that although the cambodian sentence was not transferable to the us, it could “possibly be seen as evidence by the american courts, that he has been convicted of the crime here”.

the court also sentenced mey sovan and sek vy, both 37, to 12 years each in prison after finding them guilty of soliciting child prostitution and procurement. both were accused of finding the victims for carr. the court ordered them to pay fines of 8 million riels (us$1,900) each. in addition, all three accused were ordered to pay compensation to two victims totalling 8 million riels. us media reports citing an affidavit in the case there said carr published an online advertisement offering to purchase sex with girls who were around 12 years old.

Does an expensive stunner really mean better sex I do not think so. A lot of the time I am more than happy with average and a good attitude and good iteration, anyway when I get this it usually means better sex. I plan on going for a couple of week jan and no I am not an expat but I think I have enough time to to get good 10 to 15 st and 20 to 25 lt, I hope I am not wrong has it really change that much in a year, if so maybe I will not go, but I have the feeling I will find what I need. I think there is alot of dooom and gloom merchants someone tell me I am not wrong. The distance are not far and motto taxi is cheap, is it still woth my while. I find Tailand and the baht a little expensive but I can still have 4 good day in patta and hopefully some good time in pp. Is it safe I so long as they are over 21 I should not get any problems or am I being niave.

Brian723, I think you will be fine. Safety-wise there has been no change, and not much change in mongering, either. As noted, the number of really hot girls who won't go for less than $40 has gone from nearly zero to about 10%-20%, but for the type of girl you describe, there is no noticeable change.

[QUOTE=Hippie]Fred Gold, good summary except for the part about people who paying more wishing they had paid less. Some do, and they are the people I bother to post for. Many don't care if they pay more. Also, I agree that similar discussions happen for any area, but I have never personally seen one where person after person keeps trying to insist that the prices they paid was the going rate, and everyone who paid less either does not realize the price has increased, gets a "local-special" rate, or went with a less attractive girl. It gets tiresome.

Betong, it sounds as if you realize you are paying more than you have to, but don't care because you are not in town that often. As I said, I personally wish guys would not do that because if enough do then it drives the price up, but you certainly have the right to do so if you wish.

Sammon, you just don't get what I am saying, either because you don't want to or because I did not do a good enough job of communicating. The advice I was giving was not for people who live here and can take their time. I am very busy and rarely go out. When I do go out with the intention of taking a girl home, I am very picky. I only want someone that I find extremely attractive, and my tastes seem to coincide pretty much with the mainstream. While I technically have the option of coming back another night, this thought does not enter into my mind because the reality is that I want a girl right then, not a few days or weeks later. I have never paid more than $25 LT, whether the girl came from a hostess bar or freelancer place. I have also seen girls every bit as good looking at Heart and Martini as I have at any hostess bar, but I admit that shopping at Heart takes some patience and a willingness to cut your losses and come back another time, which is why I did not mention it much. If you want to pay the rates you mentioned, OK, but don't make the mistake of thinking you have to pay them in order to get the quality of girl you want.[/QUOTE]
It is age old question. If you ask any expat who lives locally in any mongering places will say do not spoil the market for us. It is true they are worried because they have a good thing going. For a visiting monger's point view is he does want to go to all places looking for target price of $25 LT set by the locals. He wants a girl he likes and takes her even if the price is higher. Does he bargain/ Ofcourse, we mongers always bargain , maybe less strenously with some girls than others. It is possible local cambodians get a girl for $5 LT.
There is no way a foreigner will get that price. For a few dollars I definitely will not come home and hold my dick in my hand because none of the girls went for $25 LT offered. I am there maybe a week and like to have a girl every night. I do not have the luxury of those who live there thinking maybe sun will shine tomorrow for a less price.